# Various importings necessary for the full process
import random
random.seed(0)
import numpy as np
import pandas as pd
import warnings
warnings.filterwarnings("ignore")
from keras.backend import backend
# from keras.dataset
import matplotlib.pyplot as plt
%matplotlib inline
import keras
from keras.layers import Dense,Dropout,Activation
from keras.optimizers import SGD
import tensorflow as tf
from keras.models import Sequential
from keras.layers import Dense,Conv2D, Dropout,Flatten, MaxPooling2D
from keras.layers import BatchNormalization
#Getting the data from dataset API call
# initial exploration
(X_train,y_train),(X_test,y_test) = tf.keras.datasets.cifar10.load_data()
print(X_train.shape )
# 4 dimensional array with 500000 rows
# 32*32 in length and breadth
# 3 which denotes the RGB
print(X_test.shape )
# 4 dimensional array with 100000 rows
# same properties as above
Downloading data from https://www.cs.toronto.edu/~kriz/cifar-10-python.tar.gz 170500096/170498071 [==============================] - 11s 0us/step (50000, 32, 32, 3) (10000, 32, 32, 3)
#type(y_train) --> this is of type numpy.ndarray
# so we need to find the unique values through np.unique()
print(np.unique(y_train))
print(np.unique(y_test))
# Same for both test and train
[0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9] [0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9]
y_train.shape
(50000, 1)
y_train_changed = y_train.ravel()
y_train_changed.shape
(50000,)
y_test.shape
(10000, 1)
y_test_changed = y_test.ravel()
y_test_changed.shape
(10000,)
# Dataset segregartion into two happens below
X_train_04=X_train[y_train_changed <=4]
X_train_59=X_train[y_train_changed >4]
y_train_04=y_train_changed[y_train_changed <=4]
y_train_59=y_train_changed[y_train_changed >4]-5
X_test_04=X_test[y_test_changed <= 4]
X_test_59=X_test[y_test_changed >4]
y_test_04=y_test_changed[y_test_changed <= 4]
y_test_59=y_test_changed[y_test_changed >4]-5
#----------------------------------------------------------------------#
# Normalization process happens here
X_train_04 = X_train_04.astype('float32')
X_test_04 = X_test_04.astype('float32')
X_train_04 = X_train_04/255
X_test_04 = X_test_04/255
X_train_59 = X_train_59.astype('float32')
X_test_59 = X_test_59.astype('float32')
X_train_59 = X_train_59/255
X_test_59 = X_test_59/255
#----------------------------------------------------------------------#
print('X_train with y between range 0 and 4',X_train_04.shape)
print('X_train with y between range 5 and 9',X_train_59.shape)
print('y_train with y between range 0 and 4',y_train_04.shape)
print('y_train with y between range 5 and 9',y_train_59.shape)
#----------------------------------------------------------------------#
X_train with y between range 0 and 4 (25000, 32, 32, 3) X_train with y between range 5 and 9 (25000, 32, 32, 3) y_train with y between range 0 and 4 (25000,) y_train with y between range 5 and 9 (25000,)
print(y_train_04)
print(y_train_04.shape)
[4 1 1 ... 2 1 1] (25000,)
print(y_train_59)
print(y_train_59.shape)
[1 4 4 ... 0 1 4] (25000,)
y_train_04=keras.utils.to_categorical(y_train_04)
y_train_59=keras.utils.to_categorical(y_train_59)
y_test_04=keras.utils.to_categorical(y_test_04)
y_test_59=keras.utils.to_categorical(y_test_59)
y_train_04
array([[0., 0., 0., 0., 1.],
[0., 1., 0., 0., 0.],
[0., 1., 0., 0., 0.],
...,
[0., 0., 1., 0., 0.],
[0., 1., 0., 0., 0.],
[0., 1., 0., 0., 0.]], dtype=float32)
y_train_59
array([[0., 1., 0., 0., 0.],
[0., 0., 0., 0., 1.],
[0., 0., 0., 0., 1.],
...,
[1., 0., 0., 0., 0.],
[0., 1., 0., 0., 0.],
[0., 0., 0., 0., 1.]], dtype=float32)
# Model development
model = Sequential()
model.add(Conv2D(32, kernel_size=(3,3), input_shape=(32,32,3)))
model.add(BatchNormalization())
model.add(Activation ('relu'))
model.add(MaxPooling2D(pool_size=(2, 2)))
model.add(BatchNormalization())
model.add(Flatten())
model.add(Dense(128,activation='relu'))
model.add(Dropout(0.2))
model.add(Dense(5,activation = 'softmax'))
model.compile(optimizer='sgd',loss='categorical_crossentropy',metrics=['accuracy'])
model.fit(x=X_train_04,y=y_train_04,validation_data = (X_test_04,y_test_04) ,epochs=10,batch_size =32 )
model.summary()
WARNING:tensorflow:From /usr/local/lib/python3.6/dist-packages/keras/backend/tensorflow_backend.py:66: The name tf.get_default_graph is deprecated. Please use tf.compat.v1.get_default_graph instead. WARNING:tensorflow:From /usr/local/lib/python3.6/dist-packages/keras/backend/tensorflow_backend.py:541: The name tf.placeholder is deprecated. Please use tf.compat.v1.placeholder instead. WARNING:tensorflow:From /usr/local/lib/python3.6/dist-packages/keras/backend/tensorflow_backend.py:4432: The name tf.random_uniform is deprecated. Please use tf.random.uniform instead. WARNING:tensorflow:From /usr/local/lib/python3.6/dist-packages/keras/backend/tensorflow_backend.py:190: The name tf.get_default_session is deprecated. Please use tf.compat.v1.get_default_session instead. WARNING:tensorflow:From /usr/local/lib/python3.6/dist-packages/keras/backend/tensorflow_backend.py:197: The name tf.ConfigProto is deprecated. Please use tf.compat.v1.ConfigProto instead. WARNING:tensorflow:From /usr/local/lib/python3.6/dist-packages/keras/backend/tensorflow_backend.py:203: The name tf.Session is deprecated. Please use tf.compat.v1.Session instead. WARNING:tensorflow:From /usr/local/lib/python3.6/dist-packages/keras/backend/tensorflow_backend.py:207: The name tf.global_variables is deprecated. Please use tf.compat.v1.global_variables instead. WARNING:tensorflow:From /usr/local/lib/python3.6/dist-packages/keras/backend/tensorflow_backend.py:216: The name tf.is_variable_initialized is deprecated. Please use tf.compat.v1.is_variable_initialized instead. WARNING:tensorflow:From /usr/local/lib/python3.6/dist-packages/keras/backend/tensorflow_backend.py:223: The name tf.variables_initializer is deprecated. Please use tf.compat.v1.variables_initializer instead. WARNING:tensorflow:From /usr/local/lib/python3.6/dist-packages/keras/backend/tensorflow_backend.py:2041: The name tf.nn.fused_batch_norm is deprecated. Please use tf.compat.v1.nn.fused_batch_norm instead. WARNING:tensorflow:From /usr/local/lib/python3.6/dist-packages/keras/backend/tensorflow_backend.py:148: The name tf.placeholder_with_default is deprecated. Please use tf.compat.v1.placeholder_with_default instead. WARNING:tensorflow:From /usr/local/lib/python3.6/dist-packages/keras/backend/tensorflow_backend.py:4267: The name tf.nn.max_pool is deprecated. Please use tf.nn.max_pool2d instead. WARNING:tensorflow:From /usr/local/lib/python3.6/dist-packages/keras/backend/tensorflow_backend.py:3733: calling dropout (from tensorflow.python.ops.nn_ops) with keep_prob is deprecated and will be removed in a future version. Instructions for updating: Please use `rate` instead of `keep_prob`. Rate should be set to `rate = 1 - keep_prob`. WARNING:tensorflow:From /usr/local/lib/python3.6/dist-packages/keras/optimizers.py:793: The name tf.train.Optimizer is deprecated. Please use tf.compat.v1.train.Optimizer instead. WARNING:tensorflow:From /usr/local/lib/python3.6/dist-packages/keras/backend/tensorflow_backend.py:3576: The name tf.log is deprecated. Please use tf.math.log instead. WARNING:tensorflow:From /usr/local/lib/python3.6/dist-packages/tensorflow_core/python/ops/math_grad.py:1424: where (from tensorflow.python.ops.array_ops) is deprecated and will be removed in a future version. Instructions for updating: Use tf.where in 2.0, which has the same broadcast rule as np.where WARNING:tensorflow:From /usr/local/lib/python3.6/dist-packages/keras/backend/tensorflow_backend.py:1033: The name tf.assign_add is deprecated. Please use tf.compat.v1.assign_add instead. WARNING:tensorflow:From /usr/local/lib/python3.6/dist-packages/keras/backend/tensorflow_backend.py:1020: The name tf.assign is deprecated. Please use tf.compat.v1.assign instead. Train on 25000 samples, validate on 5000 samples Epoch 1/10 25000/25000 [==============================] - 47s 2ms/step - loss: 1.0152 - acc: 0.6119 - val_loss: 1.6431 - val_acc: 0.4502 Epoch 2/10 25000/25000 [==============================] - 48s 2ms/step - loss: 0.7206 - acc: 0.7253 - val_loss: 1.2320 - val_acc: 0.5500 Epoch 3/10 25000/25000 [==============================] - 46s 2ms/step - loss: 0.6217 - acc: 0.7651 - val_loss: 3.5947 - val_acc: 0.3542 Epoch 4/10 25000/25000 [==============================] - 47s 2ms/step - loss: 0.5451 - acc: 0.7956 - val_loss: 0.8809 - val_acc: 0.6706 Epoch 5/10 25000/25000 [==============================] - 47s 2ms/step - loss: 0.4816 - acc: 0.8170 - val_loss: 0.9210 - val_acc: 0.6826 Epoch 6/10 25000/25000 [==============================] - 47s 2ms/step - loss: 0.4241 - acc: 0.8397 - val_loss: 0.7119 - val_acc: 0.7364 Epoch 7/10 25000/25000 [==============================] - 47s 2ms/step - loss: 0.3778 - acc: 0.8610 - val_loss: 0.8582 - val_acc: 0.7100 Epoch 8/10 25000/25000 [==============================] - 47s 2ms/step - loss: 0.3349 - acc: 0.8764 - val_loss: 1.7638 - val_acc: 0.5110 Epoch 9/10 25000/25000 [==============================] - 47s 2ms/step - loss: 0.2897 - acc: 0.8956 - val_loss: 0.7329 - val_acc: 0.7528 Epoch 10/10 25000/25000 [==============================] - 47s 2ms/step - loss: 0.2587 - acc: 0.9054 - val_loss: 1.0508 - val_acc: 0.6598 Model: "sequential_1" _________________________________________________________________ Layer (type) Output Shape Param # ================================================================= conv2d_1 (Conv2D) (None, 30, 30, 32) 896 _________________________________________________________________ batch_normalization_1 (Batch (None, 30, 30, 32) 128 _________________________________________________________________ activation_1 (Activation) (None, 30, 30, 32) 0 _________________________________________________________________ max_pooling2d_1 (MaxPooling2 (None, 15, 15, 32) 0 _________________________________________________________________ batch_normalization_2 (Batch (None, 15, 15, 32) 128 _________________________________________________________________ flatten_1 (Flatten) (None, 7200) 0 _________________________________________________________________ dense_1 (Dense) (None, 128) 921728 _________________________________________________________________ dropout_1 (Dropout) (None, 128) 0 _________________________________________________________________ dense_2 (Dense) (None, 5) 645 ================================================================= Total params: 923,525 Trainable params: 923,397 Non-trainable params: 128 _________________________________________________________________
calculation = model.evaluate(X_test_04,y_test_04)
calculation[0]
5000/5000 [==============================] - 4s 719us/step
1.0507579261779785
model = Sequential()
model.add(Conv2D(40, kernel_size=(3,3), input_shape=(32,32,3))) # ---->0
# model.get_layer(name = 'null', index=0)
model.add(BatchNormalization()) # --->1
model.add(Activation ('relu')) # --->2
model.get_layer(index=2)
model.add(MaxPooling2D(pool_size=(2, 2))) # --->3
model.add(BatchNormalization()) # --->4
model.add(Flatten()) # --->5
model.add(Dense(128,activation='relu')) # --->6
model.add(Dropout(0.2)) # --->7
model.add(Dense(5,activation = 'softmax')) # --->8
layer0 = model.get_layer('null', 0);
layer1 = model.get_layer('null', 1);
layer2 = model.get_layer('null', 2);
layer3 = model.get_layer('null', 3);
layer4 = model.get_layer('null', 4);
layer0.trainable ='false'
layer1.trainable ='false'
layer2.trainable ='false'
layer3.trainable ='false'
layer4.trainable ='false'
model.compile(optimizer='sgd',loss='categorical_crossentropy',metrics=['accuracy'])
model.fit(x=X_train_04,y=y_train_04,validation_data = (X_test_04,y_test_04) ,epochs=10,batch_size =32 )
model.summary()
# x= Input(shape = )
# layer = Dense(128)
# layers.trainable = True
# y=layers(x)
# trainable_model = Model(x,y)
# trainable_model.compile(optimizer = 'sgd',loss='categorical_crossentropy',metrics=['accuracy'])
Train on 25000 samples, validate on 5000 samples Epoch 1/10 25000/25000 [==============================] - 56s 2ms/step - loss: 1.0260 - acc: 0.6140 - val_loss: 0.8935 - val_acc: 0.6518 Epoch 2/10 25000/25000 [==============================] - 55s 2ms/step - loss: 0.6998 - acc: 0.7296 - val_loss: 0.7045 - val_acc: 0.7282 Epoch 3/10 25000/25000 [==============================] - 55s 2ms/step - loss: 0.5957 - acc: 0.7761 - val_loss: 2.0047 - val_acc: 0.4820 Epoch 4/10 25000/25000 [==============================] - 55s 2ms/step - loss: 0.5170 - acc: 0.8044 - val_loss: 1.1314 - val_acc: 0.6164 Epoch 5/10 25000/25000 [==============================] - 55s 2ms/step - loss: 0.4522 - acc: 0.8330 - val_loss: 0.9862 - val_acc: 0.6456 Epoch 6/10 25000/25000 [==============================] - 55s 2ms/step - loss: 0.3917 - acc: 0.8579 - val_loss: 0.7795 - val_acc: 0.7256 Epoch 7/10 25000/25000 [==============================] - 56s 2ms/step - loss: 0.3434 - acc: 0.8736 - val_loss: 1.0368 - val_acc: 0.6640 Epoch 8/10 25000/25000 [==============================] - 55s 2ms/step - loss: 0.2965 - acc: 0.8916 - val_loss: 0.7633 - val_acc: 0.7374 Epoch 9/10 25000/25000 [==============================] - 56s 2ms/step - loss: 0.2587 - acc: 0.9079 - val_loss: 0.9698 - val_acc: 0.7126 Epoch 10/10 25000/25000 [==============================] - 55s 2ms/step - loss: 0.2264 - acc: 0.9193 - val_loss: 0.7628 - val_acc: 0.7566 Model: "sequential_2" _________________________________________________________________ Layer (type) Output Shape Param # ================================================================= conv2d_2 (Conv2D) (None, 30, 30, 40) 1120 _________________________________________________________________ batch_normalization_3 (Batch (None, 30, 30, 40) 160 _________________________________________________________________ activation_2 (Activation) (None, 30, 30, 40) 0 _________________________________________________________________ max_pooling2d_2 (MaxPooling2 (None, 15, 15, 40) 0 _________________________________________________________________ batch_normalization_4 (Batch (None, 15, 15, 40) 160 _________________________________________________________________ flatten_2 (Flatten) (None, 9000) 0 _________________________________________________________________ dense_3 (Dense) (None, 128) 1152128 _________________________________________________________________ dropout_2 (Dropout) (None, 128) 0 _________________________________________________________________ dense_4 (Dense) (None, 5) 645 ================================================================= Total params: 1,154,213 Trainable params: 1,154,053 Non-trainable params: 160 _________________________________________________________________
calculation = model.evaluate(X_test_04,y_test_04)
calculation[0]
5000/5000 [==============================] - 4s 868us/step
0.7628179255723954
Achieve an accuracy of more than 85% on test data
# Model development
model = Sequential()
model.add(Conv2D(40, kernel_size=(3,3), input_shape=(32,32,3)))
model.add(BatchNormalization())
model.add(Activation ('relu'))
model.add(MaxPooling2D(pool_size=(2, 2)))
model.add(BatchNormalization())
model.add(Flatten())
model.add(Dense(128,activation='relu'))
model.add(Dropout(0.2))
model.add(Dense(5,activation = 'softmax'))
model.compile(optimizer='sgd',loss='categorical_crossentropy',metrics=['accuracy'])
model.fit(x=X_train_59,y=y_train_59,validation_data = (X_test_59,y_test_59) ,epochs=10,batch_size =32 )
model.summary()
Train on 25000 samples, validate on 5000 samples Epoch 1/10 25000/25000 [==============================] - 57s 2ms/step - loss: 0.8254 - acc: 0.7038 - val_loss: 0.8740 - val_acc: 0.6942 Epoch 2/10 25000/25000 [==============================] - 56s 2ms/step - loss: 0.5099 - acc: 0.8152 - val_loss: 1.0281 - val_acc: 0.7002 Epoch 3/10 25000/25000 [==============================] - 56s 2ms/step - loss: 0.4016 - acc: 0.8555 - val_loss: 2.0069 - val_acc: 0.4874 Epoch 4/10 25000/25000 [==============================] - 56s 2ms/step - loss: 0.3287 - acc: 0.8829 - val_loss: 0.6089 - val_acc: 0.7916 Epoch 5/10 25000/25000 [==============================] - 55s 2ms/step - loss: 0.2740 - acc: 0.9023 - val_loss: 1.5721 - val_acc: 0.6046 Epoch 6/10 25000/25000 [==============================] - 56s 2ms/step - loss: 0.2295 - acc: 0.9189 - val_loss: 0.7621 - val_acc: 0.7534 Epoch 7/10 25000/25000 [==============================] - 56s 2ms/step - loss: 0.1943 - acc: 0.9316 - val_loss: 3.1475 - val_acc: 0.4812 Epoch 8/10 25000/25000 [==============================] - 57s 2ms/step - loss: 0.1606 - acc: 0.9436 - val_loss: 0.7113 - val_acc: 0.7718 Epoch 9/10 25000/25000 [==============================] - 56s 2ms/step - loss: 0.1302 - acc: 0.9559 - val_loss: 0.4582 - val_acc: 0.8498 Epoch 10/10 25000/25000 [==============================] - 56s 2ms/step - loss: 0.1165 - acc: 0.9610 - val_loss: 0.4694 - val_acc: 0.8566 Model: "sequential_3" _________________________________________________________________ Layer (type) Output Shape Param # ================================================================= conv2d_3 (Conv2D) (None, 30, 30, 40) 1120 _________________________________________________________________ batch_normalization_5 (Batch (None, 30, 30, 40) 160 _________________________________________________________________ activation_3 (Activation) (None, 30, 30, 40) 0 _________________________________________________________________ max_pooling2d_3 (MaxPooling2 (None, 15, 15, 40) 0 _________________________________________________________________ batch_normalization_6 (Batch (None, 15, 15, 40) 160 _________________________________________________________________ flatten_3 (Flatten) (None, 9000) 0 _________________________________________________________________ dense_5 (Dense) (None, 128) 1152128 _________________________________________________________________ dropout_3 (Dropout) (None, 128) 0 _________________________________________________________________ dense_6 (Dense) (None, 5) 645 ================================================================= Total params: 1,154,213 Trainable params: 1,154,053 Non-trainable params: 160 _________________________________________________________________
calculation = model.evaluate(X_test_59,y_test_59)
calculation[0]
5000/5000 [==============================] - 4s 871us/step
0.4694324375867844
model = Sequential()
model.add(Conv2D(40, kernel_size=(3,3), input_shape=(32,32,3))) # ---->0
# model.get_layer(name = 'null', index=0)
model.add(BatchNormalization()) # --->1
model.add(Activation ('relu')) # --->2
model.get_layer(index=2)
model.add(MaxPooling2D(pool_size=(2, 2))) # --->3
model.add(BatchNormalization()) # --->4
model.add(Flatten()) # --->5
model.add(Dense(128,activation='relu')) # --->6
model.add(Dropout(0.2)) # --->7
model.add(Dense(5,activation = 'softmax')) # --->8
layer0 = model.get_layer('null', 0);
layer1 = model.get_layer('null', 1);
layer2 = model.get_layer('null', 2);
layer3 = model.get_layer('null', 3);
layer4 = model.get_layer('null', 4);
layer0.trainable ='false'
layer1.trainable ='false'
layer2.trainable ='false'
layer3.trainable ='false'
layer4.trainable ='false'
model.compile(optimizer='sgd',loss='categorical_crossentropy',metrics=['accuracy'])
model.fit(x=X_train_59,y=y_train_59,validation_data = (X_test_59,y_test_59) ,epochs=10,batch_size =32 )
model.summary()
Train on 25000 samples, validate on 5000 samples Epoch 1/10 25000/25000 [==============================] - 56s 2ms/step - loss: 0.8113 - acc: 0.7052 - val_loss: 1.3956 - val_acc: 0.5484 Epoch 2/10 25000/25000 [==============================] - 56s 2ms/step - loss: 0.5044 - acc: 0.8183 - val_loss: 1.6029 - val_acc: 0.5418 Epoch 3/10 25000/25000 [==============================] - 55s 2ms/step - loss: 0.3957 - acc: 0.8577 - val_loss: 2.0344 - val_acc: 0.4838 Epoch 4/10 25000/25000 [==============================] - 56s 2ms/step - loss: 0.3290 - acc: 0.8824 - val_loss: 4.3333 - val_acc: 0.3552 Epoch 5/10 25000/25000 [==============================] - 56s 2ms/step - loss: 0.2676 - acc: 0.9055 - val_loss: 0.4995 - val_acc: 0.8216 Epoch 6/10 25000/25000 [==============================] - 56s 2ms/step - loss: 0.2230 - acc: 0.9207 - val_loss: 0.8353 - val_acc: 0.7380 Epoch 7/10 25000/25000 [==============================] - 56s 2ms/step - loss: 0.1914 - acc: 0.9331 - val_loss: 0.9903 - val_acc: 0.7204 Epoch 8/10 25000/25000 [==============================] - 56s 2ms/step - loss: 0.1597 - acc: 0.9472 - val_loss: 1.3614 - val_acc: 0.6816 Epoch 9/10 25000/25000 [==============================] - 56s 2ms/step - loss: 0.1366 - acc: 0.9537 - val_loss: 0.6295 - val_acc: 0.8122 Epoch 10/10 25000/25000 [==============================] - 56s 2ms/step - loss: 0.1172 - acc: 0.9614 - val_loss: 0.4703 - val_acc: 0.8562 Model: "sequential_4" _________________________________________________________________ Layer (type) Output Shape Param # ================================================================= conv2d_4 (Conv2D) (None, 30, 30, 40) 1120 _________________________________________________________________ batch_normalization_7 (Batch (None, 30, 30, 40) 160 _________________________________________________________________ activation_4 (Activation) (None, 30, 30, 40) 0 _________________________________________________________________ max_pooling2d_4 (MaxPooling2 (None, 15, 15, 40) 0 _________________________________________________________________ batch_normalization_8 (Batch (None, 15, 15, 40) 160 _________________________________________________________________ flatten_4 (Flatten) (None, 9000) 0 _________________________________________________________________ dense_7 (Dense) (None, 128) 1152128 _________________________________________________________________ dropout_4 (Dropout) (None, 128) 0 _________________________________________________________________ dense_8 (Dense) (None, 5) 645 ================================================================= Total params: 1,154,213 Trainable params: 1,154,053 Non-trainable params: 160 _________________________________________________________________
calculation = model.evaluate(X_test_59,y_test_59)
calculation[0]
5000/5000 [==============================] - 4s 866us/step
0.4703253962993622
from sklearn.datasets import fetch_20newsgroups
from sklearn.feature_extraction.text import CountVectorizer,TfidfVectorizer
categories = ['alt.atheism', 'soc.religion.christian', 'comp.graphics', 'sci.med']
twenty_train = fetch_20newsgroups(subset='train', categories=categories, shuffle=True, random_state=42)
twenty_train
Downloading 20news dataset. This may take a few minutes. Downloading dataset from https://ndownloader.figshare.com/files/5975967 (14 MB)
{'DESCR': '.. _20newsgroups_dataset:\n\nThe 20 newsgroups text dataset\n------------------------------\n\nThe 20 newsgroups dataset comprises around 18000 newsgroups posts on\n20 topics split in two subsets: one for training (or development)\nand the other one for testing (or for performance evaluation). The split\nbetween the train and test set is based upon a messages posted before\nand after a specific date.\n\nThis module contains two loaders. The first one,\n:func:`sklearn.datasets.fetch_20newsgroups`,\nreturns a list of the raw texts that can be fed to text feature\nextractors such as :class:`sklearn.feature_extraction.text.CountVectorizer`\nwith custom parameters so as to extract feature vectors.\nThe second one, :func:`sklearn.datasets.fetch_20newsgroups_vectorized`,\nreturns ready-to-use features, i.e., it is not necessary to use a feature\nextractor.\n\n**Data Set Characteristics:**\n\n ================= ==========\n Classes 20\n Samples total 18846\n Dimensionality 1\n Features text\n ================= ==========\n\nUsage\n~~~~~\n\nThe :func:`sklearn.datasets.fetch_20newsgroups` function is a data\nfetching / caching functions that downloads the data archive from\nthe original `20 newsgroups website`_, extracts the archive contents\nin the ``~/scikit_learn_data/20news_home`` folder and calls the\n:func:`sklearn.datasets.load_files` on either the training or\ntesting set folder, or both of them::\n\n >>> from sklearn.datasets import fetch_20newsgroups\n >>> newsgroups_train = fetch_20newsgroups(subset=\'train\')\n\n >>> from pprint import pprint\n >>> pprint(list(newsgroups_train.target_names))\n [\'alt.atheism\',\n \'comp.graphics\',\n \'comp.os.ms-windows.misc\',\n \'comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware\',\n \'comp.sys.mac.hardware\',\n \'comp.windows.x\',\n \'misc.forsale\',\n \'rec.autos\',\n \'rec.motorcycles\',\n \'rec.sport.baseball\',\n \'rec.sport.hockey\',\n \'sci.crypt\',\n \'sci.electronics\',\n \'sci.med\',\n \'sci.space\',\n \'soc.religion.christian\',\n \'talk.politics.guns\',\n \'talk.politics.mideast\',\n \'talk.politics.misc\',\n \'talk.religion.misc\']\n\nThe real data lies in the ``filenames`` and ``target`` attributes. The target\nattribute is the integer index of the category::\n\n >>> newsgroups_train.filenames.shape\n (11314,)\n >>> newsgroups_train.target.shape\n (11314,)\n >>> newsgroups_train.target[:10]\n array([ 7, 4, 4, 1, 14, 16, 13, 3, 2, 4])\n\nIt is possible to load only a sub-selection of the categories by passing the\nlist of the categories to load to the\n:func:`sklearn.datasets.fetch_20newsgroups` function::\n\n >>> cats = [\'alt.atheism\', \'sci.space\']\n >>> newsgroups_train = fetch_20newsgroups(subset=\'train\', categories=cats)\n\n >>> list(newsgroups_train.target_names)\n [\'alt.atheism\', \'sci.space\']\n >>> newsgroups_train.filenames.shape\n (1073,)\n >>> newsgroups_train.target.shape\n (1073,)\n >>> newsgroups_train.target[:10]\n array([0, 1, 1, 1, 0, 1, 1, 0, 0, 0])\n\nConverting text to vectors\n~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~\n\nIn order to feed predictive or clustering models with the text data,\none first need to turn the text into vectors of numerical values suitable\nfor statistical analysis. This can be achieved with the utilities of the\n``sklearn.feature_extraction.text`` as demonstrated in the following\nexample that extract `TF-IDF`_ vectors of unigram tokens\nfrom a subset of 20news::\n\n >>> from sklearn.feature_extraction.text import TfidfVectorizer\n >>> categories = [\'alt.atheism\', \'talk.religion.misc\',\n ... \'comp.graphics\', \'sci.space\']\n >>> newsgroups_train = fetch_20newsgroups(subset=\'train\',\n ... categories=categories)\n >>> vectorizer = TfidfVectorizer()\n >>> vectors = vectorizer.fit_transform(newsgroups_train.data)\n >>> vectors.shape\n (2034, 34118)\n\nThe extracted TF-IDF vectors are very sparse, with an average of 159 non-zero\ncomponents by sample in a more than 30000-dimensional space\n(less than .5% non-zero features)::\n\n >>> vectors.nnz / float(vectors.shape[0])\n 159.01327...\n\n:func:`sklearn.datasets.fetch_20newsgroups_vectorized` is a function which \nreturns ready-to-use token counts features instead of file names.\n\n.. _`20 newsgroups website`: http://people.csail.mit.edu/jrennie/20Newsgroups/\n.. _`TF-IDF`: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tf-idf\n\n\nFiltering text for more realistic training\n~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~\n\nIt is easy for a classifier to overfit on particular things that appear in the\n20 Newsgroups data, such as newsgroup headers. Many classifiers achieve very\nhigh F-scores, but their results would not generalize to other documents that\naren\'t from this window of time.\n\nFor example, let\'s look at the results of a multinomial Naive Bayes classifier,\nwhich is fast to train and achieves a decent F-score::\n\n >>> from sklearn.naive_bayes import MultinomialNB\n >>> from sklearn import metrics\n >>> newsgroups_test = fetch_20newsgroups(subset=\'test\',\n ... categories=categories)\n >>> vectors_test = vectorizer.transform(newsgroups_test.data)\n >>> clf = MultinomialNB(alpha=.01)\n >>> clf.fit(vectors, newsgroups_train.target)\n MultinomialNB(alpha=0.01, class_prior=None, fit_prior=True)\n\n >>> pred = clf.predict(vectors_test)\n >>> metrics.f1_score(newsgroups_test.target, pred, average=\'macro\')\n 0.88213...\n\n(The example :ref:`sphx_glr_auto_examples_text_plot_document_classification_20newsgroups.py` shuffles\nthe training and test data, instead of segmenting by time, and in that case\nmultinomial Naive Bayes gets a much higher F-score of 0.88. Are you suspicious\nyet of what\'s going on inside this classifier?)\n\nLet\'s take a look at what the most informative features are:\n\n >>> import numpy as np\n >>> def show_top10(classifier, vectorizer, categories):\n ... feature_names = np.asarray(vectorizer.get_feature_names())\n ... for i, category in enumerate(categories):\n ... top10 = np.argsort(classifier.coef_[i])[-10:]\n ... print("%s: %s" % (category, " ".join(feature_names[top10])))\n ...\n >>> show_top10(clf, vectorizer, newsgroups_train.target_names)\n alt.atheism: edu it and in you that is of to the\n comp.graphics: edu in graphics it is for and of to the\n sci.space: edu it that is in and space to of the\n talk.religion.misc: not it you in is that and to of the\n\n\nYou can now see many things that these features have overfit to:\n\n- Almost every group is distinguished by whether headers such as\n ``NNTP-Posting-Host:`` and ``Distribution:`` appear more or less often.\n- Another significant feature involves whether the sender is affiliated with\n a university, as indicated either by their headers or their signature.\n- The word "article" is a significant feature, based on how often people quote\n previous posts like this: "In article [article ID], [name] <[e-mail address]>\n wrote:"\n- Other features match the names and e-mail addresses of particular people who\n were posting at the time.\n\nWith such an abundance of clues that distinguish newsgroups, the classifiers\nbarely have to identify topics from text at all, and they all perform at the\nsame high level.\n\nFor this reason, the functions that load 20 Newsgroups data provide a\nparameter called **remove**, telling it what kinds of information to strip out\nof each file. **remove** should be a tuple containing any subset of\n``(\'headers\', \'footers\', \'quotes\')``, telling it to remove headers, signature\nblocks, and quotation blocks respectively.\n\n >>> newsgroups_test = fetch_20newsgroups(subset=\'test\',\n ... remove=(\'headers\', \'footers\', \'quotes\'),\n ... categories=categories)\n >>> vectors_test = vectorizer.transform(newsgroups_test.data)\n >>> pred = clf.predict(vectors_test)\n >>> metrics.f1_score(pred, newsgroups_test.target, average=\'macro\')\n 0.77310...\n\nThis classifier lost over a lot of its F-score, just because we removed\nmetadata that has little to do with topic classification.\nIt loses even more if we also strip this metadata from the training data:\n\n >>> newsgroups_train = fetch_20newsgroups(subset=\'train\',\n ... remove=(\'headers\', \'footers\', \'quotes\'),\n ... categories=categories)\n >>> vectors = vectorizer.fit_transform(newsgroups_train.data)\n >>> clf = MultinomialNB(alpha=.01)\n >>> clf.fit(vectors, newsgroups_train.target)\n MultinomialNB(alpha=0.01, class_prior=None, fit_prior=True)\n\n >>> vectors_test = vectorizer.transform(newsgroups_test.data)\n >>> pred = clf.predict(vectors_test)\n >>> metrics.f1_score(newsgroups_test.target, pred, average=\'macro\')\n 0.76995...\n\nSome other classifiers cope better with this harder version of the task. Try\nrunning :ref:`sphx_glr_auto_examples_model_selection_grid_search_text_feature_extraction.py` with and without\nthe ``--filter`` option to compare the results.\n\n.. topic:: Recommendation\n\n When evaluating text classifiers on the 20 Newsgroups data, you\n should strip newsgroup-related metadata. In scikit-learn, you can do this by\n setting ``remove=(\'headers\', \'footers\', \'quotes\')``. The F-score will be\n lower because it is more realistic.\n\n.. topic:: Examples\n\n * :ref:`sphx_glr_auto_examples_model_selection_grid_search_text_feature_extraction.py`\n\n * :ref:`sphx_glr_auto_examples_text_plot_document_classification_20newsgroups.py`\n',
'data': ['From: sd345@city.ac.uk (Michael Collier)\nSubject: Converting images to HP LaserJet III?\nNntp-Posting-Host: hampton\nOrganization: The City University\nLines: 14\n\nDoes anyone know of a good way (standard PC application/PD utility) to\nconvert tif/img/tga files into LaserJet III format. We would also like to\ndo the same, converting to HPGL (HP plotter) files.\n\nPlease email any response.\n\nIs this the correct group?\n\nThanks in advance. Michael.\n-- \nMichael Collier (Programmer) The Computer Unit,\nEmail: M.P.Collier@uk.ac.city The City University,\nTel: 071 477-8000 x3769 London,\nFax: 071 477-8565 EC1V 0HB.\n',
"From: ani@ms.uky.edu (Aniruddha B. Deglurkar)\nSubject: help: Splitting a trimming region along a mesh \nOrganization: University Of Kentucky, Dept. of Math Sciences\nLines: 28\n\n\n\n\tHi,\n\n\tI have a problem, I hope some of the 'gurus' can help me solve.\n\n\tBackground of the problem:\n\tI have a rectangular mesh in the uv domain, i.e the mesh is a \n\tmapping of a 3d Bezier patch into 2d. The area in this domain\n\twhich is inside a trimming loop had to be rendered. The trimming\n\tloop is a set of 2d Bezier curve segments.\n\tFor the sake of notation: the mesh is made up of cells.\n\n\tMy problem is this :\n\tThe trimming area has to be split up into individual smaller\n\tcells bounded by the trimming curve segments. If a cell\n\tis wholly inside the area...then it is output as a whole ,\n\telse it is trivially rejected. \n\n\tDoes any body know how thiss can be done, or is there any algo. \n\tsomewhere for doing this.\n\n\tAny help would be appreciated.\n\n\tThanks, \n\tAni.\n-- \nTo get irritated is human, to stay cool, divine.\n",
"From: djohnson@cs.ucsd.edu (Darin Johnson)\nSubject: Re: harrassed at work, could use some prayers\nOrganization: =CSE Dept., U.C. San Diego\nLines: 63\n\n(Well, I'll email also, but this may apply to other people, so\nI'll post also.)\n\n>I've been working at this company for eight years in various\n>engineering jobs. I'm female. Yesterday I counted and realized that\n>on seven different occasions I've been sexually harrassed at this\n>company.\n\n>I dreaded coming back to work today. What if my boss comes in to ask\n>me some kind of question...\n\nYour boss should be the person bring these problems to. If he/she\ndoes not seem to take any action, keep going up higher and higher.\nSexual harrassment does not need to be tolerated, and it can be an\nenormous emotional support to discuss this with someone and know that\nthey are trying to do something about it. If you feel you can not\ndiscuss this with your boss, perhaps your company has a personnel\ndepartment that can work for you while preserving your privacy. Most\ncompanies will want to deal with this problem because constant anxiety\ndoes seriously affect how effectively employees do their jobs.\n\nIt is unclear from your letter if you have done this or not. It is\nnot inconceivable that management remains ignorant of employee\nproblems/strife even after eight years (it's a miracle if they do\nnotice). Perhaps your manager did not bring to the attention of\nhigher ups? If the company indeed does seem to want to ignore the\nentire problem, there may be a state agency willing to fight with\nyou. (check with a lawyer, a women's resource center, etc to find out)\n\nYou may also want to discuss this with your paster, priest, husband,\netc. That is, someone you know will not be judgemental and that is\nsupportive, comforting, etc. This will bring a lot of healing.\n\n>So I returned at 11:25, only to find that ever single\n>person had already left for lunch. They left at 11:15 or so. No one\n>could be bothered to call me at the other building, even though my\n>number was posted.\n\nThis happens to a lot of people. Honest. I believe it may seem\nto be due to gross insensitivity because of the feelings you are\ngoing through. People in offices tend to be more insensitive while\nworking than they normally are (maybe it's the hustle or stress or...)\nI've had this happen to me a lot, often because they didn't realize\nmy car was broken, etc. Then they will come back and wonder why I\ndidn't want to go (this would tend to make me stop being angry at\nbeing ignored and make me laugh). Once, we went off without our\nboss, who was paying for the lunch :-)\n\n>For this\n>reason I hope good Mr. Moderator allows me this latest indulgence.\n\nWell, if you can't turn to the computer for support, what would\nwe do? (signs of the computer age :-)\n\nIn closing, please don't let the hateful actions of a single person\nharm you. They are doing it because they are still the playground\nbully and enjoy seeing the hurt they cause. And you should not\naccept the opinions of an imbecile that you are worthless - much\nwiser people hold you in great esteem.\n-- \nDarin Johnson\ndjohnson@ucsd.edu\n - Luxury! In MY day, we had to make do with 5 bytes of swap...\n",
'From: s0612596@let.rug.nl (M.M. Zwart)\nSubject: catholic church poland\nOrganization: Faculteit der Letteren, Rijksuniversiteit Groningen, NL\nLines: 10\n\nHello,\n\nI\'m writing a paper on the role of the catholic church in Poland after 1989. \nCan anyone tell me more about this, or fill me in on recent books/articles(\nin english, german or french). Most important for me is the role of the \nchurch concerning the abortion-law, religious education at schools,\nbirth-control and the relation church-state(government). Thanx,\n\n Masja,\n"M.M.Zwart"<s0612596@let.rug.nl>\n',
'From: stanly@grok11.columbiasc.ncr.com (stanly)\nSubject: Re: Elder Brother\nOrganization: NCR Corp., Columbia SC\nLines: 15\n\nIn article <Apr.8.00.57.41.1993.28246@athos.rutgers.edu> REXLEX@fnal.gov writes:\n>In article <Apr.7.01.56.56.1993.22824@athos.rutgers.edu> shrum@hpfcso.fc.hp.com\n>Matt. 22:9-14 \'Go therefore to the main highways, and as many as you find\n>there, invite to the wedding feast.\'...\n\n>hmmmmmm. Sounds like your theology and Christ\'s are at odds. Which one am I \n>to believe?\n\nIn this parable, Jesus tells the parable of the wedding feast. "The kingdom\nof heaven is like unto a certain king which made a marriage for his son".\nSo the wedding clothes were customary, and "given" to those who "chose" to\nattend. This man "refused" to wear the clothes. The wedding clothes are\nequalivant to the "clothes of righteousness". When Jesus died for our sins,\nthose "clothes" were then provided. Like that man, it is our decision to\nput the clothes on.\n',
'From: vbv@lor.eeap.cwru.edu (Virgilio (Dean) B. Velasco Jr.)\nSubject: Re: The arrogance of Christians\nOrganization: Case Western Reserve Univ. Cleveland, Ohio (USA)\nLines: 28\n\nIn article <Apr.22.00.56.15.1993.2073@geneva.rutgers.edu> hayesstw@risc1.unisa.ac.za (Steve Hayes) writes:\n\n>A similar analogy might be a medical doctor who believes that a blood \n>transfusion is necessary to save the life of a child whose parents are \n>Jehovah\'s Witnesses and so have conscientious objections to blood \n>transfusion. The doctor\'s efforts to persuade them to agree to a blood \n>transfusion could be perceived to be arrogant in precisely the same way as \n>Christians could be perceived to be arrogant.\n\n>The truth or otherwise of the belief that a blood transfusion is necessary \n>to save the life of the child is irrelevant here. What matters is that the \n>doctor BELIEVES it to be true, and could be seen to be trying to foce his \n>beliefs on the parents, and this could well be perceived as arrogance.\n\nLet me carry that a step further. Most doctors would not claim to be \ninfallible. Indeed, they would generally admit that they could conceivably\nbe wrong, e.g. that in this case, a blood tranfusion might not turn out to \nbe necessary after all. However, the doctors would have enough confidence\nand conviction to claim, out of genuine concern, that is IS necessary. As\nfallible human beings, they must acknowledge the possibility that they are\nwrong. However, they would also say that such doubts are not reasonable,\nand stand by their convictions.\n\n-- \nVirgilio "Dean" Velasco Jr, Department of Electrical Eng\'g and Applied Physics \n\t CWRU graduate student, roboticist-in-training and Q wannabee\n "Bullwinkle, that man\'s intimidating a referee!" | My boss is a \n "Not very well. He doesn\'t look like one at all!" | Jewish carpenter.\n',
"From: jodfishe@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (joseph dale fisher)\nSubject: Re: anger\nOrganization: Indiana University\nLines: 34\n\nIn article <Apr.17.01.10.44.1993.2232@geneva.rutgers.edu> news@cbnewsk.att.com writes:\n>>Paul Conditt writes:\n[insert deletion of Paul's and Aaron's discourse on anger, ref Galatians\n5:19-20]\n>\n>I don't know why it is so obvious. We are not speaking of acts of the \n>flesh. We are just speaking of emotions. Emotions are not of themselves\n>moral or immoral, good or bad. Emotions just are. The first step is\n>not to label his emotion as good or bad or to numb ourselves so that\n>we hide our true feelings, it is to accept ourselves as we are, as God\n>accepts us. \n\nOh, but they definitely can be. Please look at Colossians 3:5-10 and\nEphesians 4:25-27. Emotions can be controlled and God puts very strong\nemphasis on self-control, otherwise, why would he have Paul write to\nTimothy so much about making sure to teach self-control? \n\n[insert deletion of remainder of paragraph]\n\n>\n>Re-think it, Aaron. Don't be quick to judge. He has forgiven those with\n>AIDS, he has dealt with and taken responsibility for his feelings and made\n>appropriate choices for action on such feelings. He has not given in to\n>his anger.\n\nPlease, re-think and re-read for yourself, Joe. Again, the issue is\nself-control especially over feelings and actions, for our actions stem\nfrom our feelings in many instances. As for God giving in to his anger,\nthat comes very soon.\n\n>\n>Joe Moore\n\nJoe Fisher\n",
"From: aldridge@netcom.com (Jacquelin Aldridge)\nSubject: Re: Teenage acne\nOrganization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)\nLines: 57\n\npchurch@swell.actrix.gen.nz (Pat Churchill) writes:\n\n\n>My 14-y-o son has the usual teenage spotty chin and greasy nose. I\n>bought him Clearasil face wash and ointment. I think that is probably\n>enough, along with the usual good diet. However, he is on at me to\n>get some product called Dalacin T, which used to be a\n>doctor's-prescription only treatment but is not available over the\n>chemist's counter. I have asked a couple of pharmacists who say\n>either his acne is not severe enough for Dalacin T, or that Clearasil\n>is OK. I had the odd spots as a teenager, nothing serious. His\n>father was the same, so I don't figure his acne is going to escalate\n>into something disfiguring. But I know kids are senstitive about\n>their appearance. I am wary because a neighbour's son had this wierd\n>malady that was eventually put down to an overdose of vitamin A from\n>acne treatment. I want to help - but with appropriate treatment.\n\n>My son also has some scaliness around the hairline on his scalp. Sort\n>of teenage cradle cap. Any pointers/advice on this? We have tried a\n>couple of anti dandruff shampoos and some of these are inclined to\n>make the condition worse, not better.\n\n>Shall I bury the kid till he's 21 :)\n\n:) No...I was one of the lucky ones. Very little acne as a teenager. I\ndidn't have any luck with clearasil. Even though my skin gets oily it\nreally only gets miserable pimples when it's dry. \n\nFrequent lukewarm water rinses on the face might help. Getting the scalp\nthing under control might help (that could be as simple as submerging under\nthe bathwater till it's softened and washing it out). Taking a one a day\nvitamin/mineral might help. I've heard iodine causes trouble and that it \nis used in fast food restaurants to sterilize equipment which might be\nwhere the belief that greasy foods cause acne came from. I notice grease \non my face, not immediately removed will cause acne (even from eating\nmeat).\n\nKeeping hair rinse, mousse, dip, and spray off the face will help. Warm\nwater bath soaks or cloths on the face to soften the oil in the pores will\nhelp prevent blackheads. Body oil is hydrophilic, loves water and it\nsoftens and washes off when it has a chance. That's why hair goes limp with\noilyness. \n\nBecoming convinced that the best thing to do with\na whitehead is leave it alone will save him days of pimple misery. Any\nprying of black or whiteheads can cause infections, the red spots of\npimples. Usually a whitehead will break naturally in a day and there won't\nbe an infection afterwards.\n\nTell him that it's normal to have some pimples but the cosmetic industry\nmakes it's money off of selling people on the idea that they are an\nincredible defect to be hidden at any cost (even that of causing more pimples). \n\n\n-Jackie-\n\n\n",
'From: geb@cs.pitt.edu (Gordon Banks)\nSubject: Re: Blindsight\nReply-To: geb@cs.pitt.edu (Gordon Banks)\nOrganization: Univ. of Pittsburgh Computer Science\nLines: 18\n\nIn article <werner-240393161954@tol7mac15.soe.berkeley.edu> werner@soe.berkeley.edu (John Werner) writes:\n>In article <19213@pitt.UUCP>, geb@cs.pitt.edu (Gordon Banks) wrote:\n>> \n>> Explain. I thought there were 3 types of cones, equivalent to RGB.\n>\n>You\'re basically right, but I think there are just 2 types. One is\n>sensitive to red and green, and the other is sensitive to blue and yellow. \n>This is why the two most common kinds of color-blindness are red-green and\n>blue-yellow.\n>\n\nYes, I remember that now. Well, in that case, the cones are indeed\ncolor sensitive, contrary to what the original respondent had claimed.\n-- \n----------------------------------------------------------------------------\nGordon Banks N3JXP | "Skepticism is the chastity of the intellect, and\ngeb@cadre.dsl.pitt.edu | it is shameful to surrender it too soon." \n----------------------------------------------------------------------------\n',
'From: libman@hsc.usc.edu (Marlena Libman)\nSubject: Need advice with doctor-patient relationship problem\nOrganization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA\nLines: 64\nNNTP-Posting-Host: hsc.usc.edu\n\nI need advice with a situation which occurred between me and a physican\nwhich upset me. I saw this doctor for a problem with recurring pain.\nHe suggested medication and a course of treatment, and told me that I\nneed to call him 7 days after I begin the medication so that he may\nmonitor its effectiveness, as well as my general health.\n\nI did exactly as he asked, and made the call (reaching his secretary).\nI explained to her that I was following up at the doctor\'s request,\nand that I was worried because the pain episodes were becoming more\nfrequent and the medication did not seem effective.\n\nThe doctor called me back, and his first words were, "Whatever you want,\nyou\'d better make it quick. I\'m very busy and don\'t have time to chit-\nchat with you!" I told him I was simply following his instructions to\ncall on the 7th day to status him, and that I was feeling worse. I \nthen asked if perhaps there was a better time for us to talk when he\nhad more time. He responded, "Just spit it out now because no time is\na good time." (Said in a raised voice.) I started to feel upset and\ntried to explain quickly what was going on with my condition but my\nnervousness interfered with my choice of words and I kind of stuttered\nand then said "well, never mind" and he said he\'ll talk to various\ncolleagues about other medications and he\'ll call me some other time.\n\nThis doctor called me that evening and said because I didn\'t express\nmyself well, he was confused about what I wanted. At this point I\nwas pretty upset and I told him (in an amazingly polite voice considering\nhow angry I felt) that his earlier manner had hurt my feelings. He told\nme that he just doesn\'t have time to "rap with patients" and thought\nthat was what I wanted. I told him that to assume I was calling to\n"rap" was insulting, and said again that I was just following through\non his orders. He responded that he resented the implication that he \nfelt I was making that he was not interested in learning about what his\npatients have to say about their condition status. He then gave me\nthis apology: "I am sorry that there was a miscommunication and you\nmistakenly thought I was insulting. I am not trying to insult you\nbut I am not that knowledgeable about pain, and I don\'t have a lot of\ntime to deal with that." He then told me to call him the next day\nfor further instructions on how do deal with my pain and medication.\n\nI am still upset and have not yet called.\n\nMy questions: (1) Should I continue to have this doctor manage my care?\n(2) Since I am in pain off and on, I realize that this may cause me to\nbe more anxietous so am I perhaps over-reacting or overly sensitive?\nIf this doctor refers me to his colleague who knows more about the type\nof pain I have, he still wants me to status him on my condition but\nnow I am afraid to call him.\n\n\t\t\t--Marlena\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n',
'From: anasaz!karl@anasazi.com (Karl Dussik)\nSubject: Re: Is "Christian" a dirty word?\nOrganization: Anasazi Inc Phx Az USA\nLines: 73\n\nIn article <Mar.25.03.53.08.1993.24855@athos.rutgers.edu> @usceast.cs.scarolina.edu:moss@cs.scarolina.edu (James Moss) writes:\n>I was brought up christian, but I am not christian any longer.\n>I also have a bad taste in my mouth over christianity. I (in\n>my own faith) accept and live my life by many if not most of the\n>teachings of christ, but I cannot let myself be called a christian,\n>beacuse to me too many things are done on the name of christianity,\n>that I can not be associated with. \n\nA question for you - can you give me the name of an organization or a\nphilosophy or a political movement, etc., which has never had anything\nevil done in its name? You\'re missing a central teaching of Christianity -\nman is inherently sinful. We are saved through faith by grace. Knowing\nthat, believing that, does not make us without sin. Furthermore, not all\nwho consider themselves "christians" are (even those who manage to head\ntheir own "churches"). "Not everyone who says to me, \'Lord, Lord,\' will\nenter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who\nis in heaven." - Matt. 7:21.\n\n>I also have a problem with the inconsistancies in the Bible, and\n>how it seems to me that too many people have edited the original\n>documents to fit their own world views, thereby leaving the Bible\n>an unbelievable source.\n\nAgain, what historical documents do you trust? Do you think Hannibal\ncrossed the Alps? How do you know? How do you know for sure? What\nhistorical documents have stood the scrutiny and the attempts to dis-\ncredit it as well as the Bible has?\n\n>I don\'t have dislike of christians (except for a few who won\'t\n>quit witnessing to me, no matter how many times I tell them to stop), \n>but the christian faith/organized religion will never (as far as i can \n>see at the moment) get my support.\n\nWell, it\'s really a shame you feel this way. No one can browbeat you\ninto believing, and those who try will probably only succeed in driving\nyou further away. You need to ask yourself some difficult questions:\n1) is there an afterlife, and if so, does man require salvation to attain\nit. If the answer is yes, the next question is 2) how does man attain this\nsalvation - can he do it on his own as the eastern religions and certain\nmodern offshoots like the "new age movement" teach or does he require God\'s\nhelp? 3) If the latter, in what form does - indeed, in what form can such\nhelp come? Needless to say, this discussion could take a lifetime, and for\nsome people it did comprise their life\'s writings, so I am hardly in a\nposition to offer the answers here - merely pointers to what to ask. Few,\nof us manage to have an unshaken faith our entire lives (certainly not me).\nThe spritual life is a difficult journey (if you\'ve never read "A Pilgrim\'s\nProgress," I highly recommend this greatest allegory of the english language).\n\n>Peace and Love\n>In God(ess)\'s name\n>James Moss\n\nNow I see by your close that one possible source of trouble for you may be a\nconflict between your politcal beliefs and your religious upbringing. You\nwrote that "I (in my own faith) accept and live my life by many if not most\nof the teachings of christ". Well, Christ referred to God as "My Father",\nnot "My Mother", and while the "maleness" of God is not the same as the\nmaleness of those of us humans who possess a Y chromosome, it does not\nhonor God to refer to Him as female purely to be trendy, non-discriminatory,\nor politically correct. This in no way disparages women (nor is it my intent\nto do so by my use of the male pronoun to refer to both men and women - \nenglish just does not have a decent neuter set of pronouns). After all, God\nchose a woman as his only human partner in bringing Christ into the human\npopulation.\n\nWell, I\'m not about to launch into a detailed discussion of\nthe role of women in Christianity at 1am with only 6 hours of sleep in the\nlast 63, and for that reason I also apologize for any shortcomings in this\narticle. I just happened across yours and felt moved to reply. I hope I\nmay have given you, and anyone else who finds himself in a similar frame of\nmind, something to contemplate.\n\nKarl Dussik\n',
'From: amjad@eng.umd.edu (Amjad A Soomro)\nSubject: Gamma-Law Correction\nOrganization: Project GLUE, University of Maryland, College Park\nLines: 22\nDistribution: USA\nExpires: 05/15/93\nNNTP-Posting-Host: filter.eng.umd.edu\n\nHi:\n\nI am digitizing a NTSC signal and displaying on a PC video monitor.\nIt is known that the display response of tubes is non-linear and is\nsometimes said to follow Gamma-Law. I am not certain if these\nnon-linearities are "Gamma-corrected" before encoding NTSC signals\nor if the TV display is supposed to correct this.\n \nAlso, if 256 grey levels, for example, are coded in a C program do\nthese intensity levels appear with linear brightness on a PC\nmonitor? In other words does PC monitor display circuitry\ncorrect for "gamma errrors"?\n \nYour response is much appreciated.\n \nAmjad.\n\nAmjad Soomro\nCCS, Computer Science Center\nU. of Maryland at College Park\nemail: amjad@wam.umd.edu\n\n',
'From: I3150101@dbstu1.rz.tu-bs.de (Benedikt Rosenau)\nSubject: Re: A visit from the Jehovah\'s Witnesses\nOrganization: Technical University Braunschweig, Germany\nLines: 114\n\nIn article <1993Apr5.091139.823@batman.bmd.trw.com>\njbrown@batman.bmd.trw.com writes:\n \n>> Didn\'t you say Lucifer was created with a perfect nature?\n>\n>Yes.\n>\n \nDefine perfect then.\n \n \n>> I think you\n>> are playing the usual game here, make sweeping statements like omni-,\n>> holy, or perfect, and don\'t note that they mean exactly what they say.\n>> And that says that you must not use this terms when it leads to\n>> contradictions.\n>\n>I\'m not trying to play games here. But I understand how it might seem\n>that way especially when one is coming from a completely different point\n>of view such as atheism.\n>\n \nTake your foot out of your mouth, I wondered about that already when I\nwas a Catholic Christian. The fact that the contradiction is unresolvable\nis one of the reasons why I am an atheist.\n \nBelieve me, I believed similar sentences for a long time. But that shows\nthe power of religion and not anything about its claims.\n \n \n>>>Now God could have prevented Lucifer\'s fall by taking away his ability\n>>>to choose between moral alternatives (worship God or worship himself),\n>>>but that would mean that God was in error to have make Lucifer or any\n>>>being with free will in the first place.\n>>\n>> Exactly. God allows evil, an evil if there ever was one.\n>>\n>\n>Now that\'s an opinion, or at best a premise. But from my point of view,\n>it is not a premise which is necessary true, specifically, that it is\n>an evil to allow evil to occur.\n>\n \nIt follows from a definition of evil as ordinarily used. Letting evil\nhappen or allowing evil to take place, in this place even causing evil,\nis another evil.\n \n \n>> But could you give a definition of free will? Especially in the\n>> presence of an omniscient being?\n>>\n>"Will" is "self-determination". In other words, God created conscious\n>beings who have the ability to choose between moral choices independently\n>of God. All "will", therefore, is "free will".\n>\n \nThe omniscient attribute of god will know what the creatures will do even\nbefore the omnipotent has created them. There is no choice left. All is known,\nthe course of events is fixed.\n \nNot even for the omniscient itself, to extend an argument by James Tims.\n \n \n>>>If God is omniscient, then\n>>>clearly, creating beings with free moral choice is a greater good than\n>>>the emergence of ungodliness (evil/sin) since He created them knowing\n>>>the outcome in advance.\n>>\n>> Why is it the greater good to allow evil with the knowledge that it\n>> will happen? Why not make a unipolar system with the possibility of\n>> doing good or not doing good, but that does not necessarily imply\n>> doing evil. It is logically possible, but your god has not done it.\n>\n>I do not know that such is logically possible. If God restrains a\n>free being\'s choice to choose to do evil and simply do "not good",\n>then can it be said that the being truly has a free moral choice?\n>And if "good" is defined as loving and obeying God, and avoiding\n>those behaviors which God prohibits, then how can you say that one\n>who is "not good" is not evil as well? Like I said, I am not sure\n>that doing "not good" without doing evil is logically possible.\n \nAnd when I am not omnipotent, how can I have free will? You have said\nsomething about choices and the scenario gives them. Therefore we have\nwhat you define as free will.\n \nImagine the following. I can do good to other beings, but I cannot harm them.\nEasily implemented by making everyone appreciate being the object of good\ndeeds, but don\'t make them long for them, so they can not feel the absence\nof good as evil.\n \nBut whose case am I arguing? It is conceivable, so the omnipotent can do it.\nOr it would not be omnipotent. If you want logically consistent as well, you\nhave to give up the pet idea of an omnipotent first.\n \n(Deletion)\n>\n>Perhaps it is weak, in a way. If I were just speculating about the\n>ubiquitous pink unicorns, then there would be no basis for such\n>speculation. But this idea of God didn\'t just fall on me out of the\n>blue :), or while reading science fiction or fantasy. (I know that\n>some will disagree) :) The Bible describes a God who is omniscient,\n>and nevertheless created beings with free moral choice, from which\n>the definitional logic follows. But that\'s not all there is to it.\n>There seems to be (at least in my mind) a certain amount of evidence\n>which indicates that God exists and that the Biblical description\n>of Him may be a fair one. It is that evidence which bolsters the\n>argument in my view.\n \nThat the bible describes an omniscient and omnipotent god destroys\nthe credibility of the bible, nothing less.\n \nAnd a lot of people would be interested in evidence for a god,\nunfortunately, there can\'t be any with these definitions.\n Benedikt\n',
"Subject: So what is Maddi?\nFrom: madhaus@netcom.com (Maddi Hausmann)\nOrganization: Society for Putting Things on Top of Other Things\nLines: 12\n\nAs I was created in the image of Gaea, therefore I must\nbe the pinnacle of creation, She which Creates, She which\nBirths, She which Continues.\n\nOr, to cut all the religious crap, I'm a woman, thanks.\nAnd it's sexism that started me on the road to atheism.\n\n-- \nMaddi Hausmann madhaus@netcom.com\nCentigram Communications Corp San Jose California 408/428-3553\n\nKids, please don't try this at home. Remember, I post professionally.\n",
"From: sloan@cis.uab.edu (Kenneth Sloan)\nSubject: Re: More gray levels out of the screen\nOrganization: CIS, University of Alabama at Birmingham\nLines: 22\n\nIn article <C51C4r.BtG@csc.ti.com> rowlands@hc.ti.com (Jon Rowlands) writes:\n>\n>A few years ago a friend and I took some 256 grey-level photos from\n>a 1 bit Mac Plus screen using this method. Displaying all 256 levels\n>synchronized to the 60Hz display took about 10 seconds.\n\nWhy didn't you create 8 grey-level images, and display them for\n1,2,4,8,16,32,64,128... time slices?\n\nThis requires the same total exposure time, and the same precision in\ntiming, but drastically reduces the image-preparation time, no?\n\n\n\n\n\n\n-- \nKenneth Sloan Computer and Information Sciences\nsloan@cis.uab.edu University of Alabama at Birmingham\n(205) 934-2213 115A Campbell Hall, UAB Station \n(205) 934-5473 FAX Birmingham, AL 35294-1170\n",
'From: Mike_Peredo@mindlink.bc.ca (Mike Peredo)\nSubject: Re: "Fake" virtual reality\nOrganization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada\nLines: 11\n\nThe most ridiculous example of VR-exploitation I\'ve seen so far is the\n"Virtual Reality Clothing Company" which recently opened up in Vancouver. As\nfar as I can tell it\'s just another "chic" clothes spot. Although it would be\ninteresting if they were selling "virtual clothing"....\n\nE-mail me if you want me to dig up their phone # and you can probably get\nsome promotional lit.\n\nMP\n(8^)-\n\n',
'From: texx@ossi.com (Robert "Texx" Woodworth)\nSubject: Re: Can men get yeast infections?\nOrganization: Open Systems Solutions Inc.\nLines: 16\nDistribution: na\nNNTP-Posting-Host: nym.ossi.com\n\nnoring@netcom.com (Jon Noring) writes:\n\n>In article Tammy.Vandenboom@launchpad.unc.edu (Tammy Vandenboom) writes:\n\n>>Here\'s a potentially stupid question to possibly the wrong news group, but. .\n>>\n>>Can men get yeast infections? Spread them? What kind of symptoms?\n>>Similar as women\'s? I have a yeast infection and my husband (who is a\n>>natural paranoid on a good day) is sure he\'s gonna catch it and keeps\n>>asking me what it\'s like. I\'m not sure what his symptoms would be. . \n\n>The answer is yes and no. I\'m sure others on sci.med can expand on this.\n\nRecently someone posted an account of this.\nUnfortunately it was posted to alt.tasteless so the gross details were emphasized\ninstead of th e actual scientific facts.\n',
'Organization: Penn State University\nFrom: <JSN104@psuvm.psu.edu>\nSubject: YOU WILL ALL GO TO HELL!!!\nLines: 2\n\nYOU BLASHEPHEMERS!!! YOU WILL ALL GO TO HELL FOR NOT BELIEVING IN GOD!!!! BE\nPREPARED FOR YOUR ETERNAL DAMNATION!!!\n',
"From: tom_milligan@rainbow.mentorg.com\nSubject: Anyone with L'Abri Experiences\nOrganization: Mentor Graphics Corporation\nLines: 6\n\nI am curious if anyone in net-land has spent any time at any of the L'Abri\nhouses throughout the world and what the experience was like, how it affected\nyou, etc. Especially interesting would be experiences at the original L'Abri\nin Switzerland and personal interactions with Francis and/or Edith Schaeffer.\n\nTom Milligan\n",
"Subject: Re: Don't more innocents die without the death penalty?\nFrom: lippard@skyblu.ccit.arizona.edu (James J. Lippard)\nDistribution: world,local\nOrganization: University of Arizona\nNntp-Posting-Host: skyblu.ccit.arizona.edu\nNews-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41 \nLines: 21\n\nIn article <chrisb.734068710@bAARNie>, chrisb@tafe.sa.edu.au (Chris BELL) writes...\n>\tkilling is wrong\n>\tif you kill we will punish you\n>\tour punishment will be to kill you.\n> \n>Seems to be lacking in consistency.\n\nNot any more so than\n\n holding people against their will is wrong\n if you hold people against their will we will punish you\n our punishment will be to hold you against your will\n\nIs there any punishment which isn't something which, if done by a private\nperson to another private person for no apparent reason, would lead to\npunishment? (Fines, I suppose.)\n\nJim Lippard Lippard@CCIT.ARIZONA.EDU\nDept. of Philosophy Lippard@ARIZVMS.BITNET\nUniversity of Arizona\nTucson, AZ 85721\n",
"From: dotsonm@dmapub.dma.org (Mark Dotson)\nSubject: Re: Hell_2: Black Sabbath\nOrganization: Dayton Microcomputer Association; Dayton, Ohio\nLines: 10\n\n: I may be wrong, but wasn't Jeff Fenholt part of Black Sabbath? He's a\n: MAJOR brother in Christ now. He totally changed his life around, and\n: he and his wife go on tours singing, witnessing, and spreading the\n: gospel for Christ. I may be wrong about Black Sabbath, but I know he\n: was in a similar band if it wasn't that particular group...\n\n Yes, but Jeff also speaks out against listening to bands like Black\nSabbath. He says they're into all sorts of satanic stuff. I don't know.\n\n Mark (dotsonm@dmapub.dma.org)\n",
'From: gmiller@worldbank.org (Gene C. Miller)\nSubject: Re: Radical Agnostic... NOT!\nOrganization: worldbank.org\nLines: 37\n\nIn article <1993Apr6.013657.5691@cnsvax.uwec.edu>, nyeda@cnsvax.uwec.edu\n(David Nye) wrote:\n> \n> [reply to zazen@austin.ibm.com (E. H. Welbon)]\n> \n> >>> There is no means that i can possibly think of to prove beyond doubt\n> >>>that a god does not exist (but if anyone has one, by all means, tell me\n> >>>what it is). Therefore, lacking this ability of absolute proof, being an\n> >>>atheist becomes an act of faith in and of itself, and this I cannot accept.\n> >>> I accept nothing on blind faith.\n> \n> >>Invisible Pink Flying Unicorns! Need I say more?\n> \n> >...I harbor no beliefs at all, there is no good evidence for god\n> >existing or not. Some folks call this agnosticism. It does not suffer\n> >from "blind faith" at all. I think of it as "Don\'t worry, be happy".\n> \n> For many atheists, the lack of belief in gods is secondary to an\n> epistemological consideration: what do we accept as a reliable way of\n> knowing? There are no known valid logical arguments for the existence\n> of gods, nor is there any empirical evidence that they exist. Most\n> philosophers and theologians agree that the idea of a god is one that\n> must be accepted on faith. Faith is belief without a sound logical\n> basis or empirical evidence. It is a reliable way of knowing?\n> \n\nCould you expand on your definition of knowing? It seems a bit monolithic\nhere, but I\'m not sure that you intend that. Don\'t we need, for example, to\ndistinguish between "knowing" 2 plus 2 equals 4 (or 2 apples plus 2 apples\nequals 4 apples), the French "knowing" that Jerry Lewis is an auteur, and\nwhat it means to say we "know" what Socrates said?\n\n> This is patently absurd; but whoever wishes to become a philosopher\n> must learn not to be frightened by absurdities. -- Bertrand Russell\n\nI like this epigraph. Perhaps the issue is learning which, if any,\nabsurdities merit further exploration...Gene\n',
'From: jkellett@netcom.com (Joe Kellett)\nSubject: Re: Opinions asked about rejection\nOrganization: Netcom\nLines: 22\n\nWilliam Mayne (mayne@pipe.cs.fsu.edu) wrote:\n: In article <Apr.1.02.34.21.1993.21547@athos.rutgers.edu> jayne@mmalt.guild.org (Jayne Kulikauskas) writes:\n\n: >People who reject God don\'t want to be wth Him in heaven. We spend our \n: >lives choosing to be either for Him or against Him. God does not force \n: >Himself on us.\n\n: I must say that I am shocked. My impression has been that Jayne Kulikaskas\n: usually writes this much less offensive and ludicrous than this. I am not\n: saying that the offensiveness is intentional, but it is clear and it is\n: something for Christians to consider.\n\nJayne stands in pretty good company. C.S. Lewis wrote a whole book\npromoting the idea contained in her first sentence quoted above. It is\ncalled "The Final Divorce". Excellent book on the subject of Heaven and\nHell, highly recommended. It\'s an allegory of souls who are invited, indeed\nbeseeched to enter Heaven, but reject the offer because being with God in\nHeaven means giving up their false pride.\n\n-- \nJoe Kellett\njkellett@netcom.com\n',
'From: d91-hes@tekn.hj.se (STEFAN HERMANSSON)\nSubject: re: Vesa on the Speedstar 24\nOrganization: H|gskolan i J|nk|ping\nLines: 8\nNntp-Posting-Host: pc9_b109.et.hj.se\n\n\n\n\tJust posting to John Cormack.\nI wanted to tell you that there is a "slight" difference between \nSpeedstar 24 and Speedstar 24X\n\n\n\t\t\t\t\t\t/Stefan\n',
"From: mjw19@cl.cam.ac.uk (M.J. Williams)\nSubject: Re: Rumours about 3DO ???\nKeywords: 3DO ARM QT Compact Video\nReply-To: mjw19@cl.cam.ac.uk\nOrganization: The National Society for the Inversion of Cuddly Tigers\nLines: 32\nNntp-Posting-Host: earith.cl.cam.ac.uk\n\nIn article <2BD07605.18974@news.service.uci.edu> rbarris@orion.oac.uci.edu (Robert C. Barris) writes:\n> We\n>got to see the unit displaying full-screen movies using the CompactVideo codec\n>(which was nice, very little blockiness showing clips from Jaws and Backdraft)\n>... and a very high frame rate to boot (like 30fps).\n\nAcorn Replay running on a 25MHz ARM 3 processor (the ARM 3 is about 20% slower\nthan the ARM 6) does this in software (off a standard CD-ROM). 16 bit colour at\nabout the same resolution (so what if the computer only has 8 bit colour\nsupport, real-time dithering too...). The 3D0/O is supposed to have a couple of\nDSPs - the ARM being used for housekeeping.\n\n>I'm not sure how a Centris/20MHz 040 stacks up against the 25 MHz ARM in\n>the 3DO box. Obviously the ARM is faster, but how much?\n\nA 25MHz ARM 6xx should clock around 20 ARM MIPS, say 18 flat out. Depends\nreally on the surrounding system and whether you are talking ARM6x or ARM6xx\n(the latter has a cache, and so is essential to run at this kind of speed with\nslower memory).\n\nI'll stop saying things there 'cos I'll hopefully be working for ARM after\ngraduation...\n\nMike\n\nPS Don't pay heed to what reps from Philips say; if the 3D0/O doesn't beat the\n pants off 3DI then I'll eat this postscript.\n--\n____________________________________________________________________________\n\\ / / Michael Williams Part II Computer Science Tripos\n|\\/|\\/\\ MJW19@phx.cam.ac.uk University of Cambridge\n| |(__)Cymdeithas Genedlaethol Traddodiad Troi Teigrod Mwythus Ben I Waered\n",
"From: dstampe@psych.toronto.edu (Dave Stampe)\nSubject: Re: Fast polygon routine needed\nKeywords: polygon, needed\nOrganization: Department of Psychology, University of Toronto\nLines: 27\n\nsol.surv.utas.edu.au (Stephen Quan) writes:\n\n>>>>[...], but I'm looking for a fast polygon routine to be used in a 3D game.\n>>>A fast polygon routine to do WHAT?\n>>To draw polygons of course. Its a VGA mode 13h (320x200) game, [...]\n>\n>Hi, I've come across a fast triangle fill-draw routine for mode 13h. By\n>calling this routine enough times, you have a fast polygon drawing routine.\n>\n>I think I ftp'ed from wuarchive.wustl.edu:/pub/MSDOS_UPLOADS/programming.\n>I have a copy of it so I reupload it there. The triangle.txt file has this\n>to say :\n>\n>> C and inline assembly source for a VGA mode 13h triangle drawer.\n>\nAnother source: There's a poly blitter for mode y (mode x in 320x200)\nat sunee.uwaterloo.ca. Also there is REND386, an even faster 3D\nrenderer with VR extensions.\n\n\n--------------------------------------------------------------------------\n| My life is Hardware, | Dave Stampe | \n| my destiny is Software, | dstampe@psych.toronto.edu |\n| my CPU is Wetware... | dstampe@sunee.uwaterloo.ca | \n| Am I a techno-psychologist, or just a psycho-engineer ?? |\n--------------------------------------------------------------------------\n\n",
"From: christian@geneva.rutgers.edu\nSubject: end of discussion: Easter\nLines: 2\n\nI just about closed this once before. I'm now doing so for real, after\ntonight's posting.\n",
'From: ruthless@panix.com (Ruth Ditucci)\nSubject: Losing your temper is not a Christian trait\nOrganization: PANIX Public Access Unix, NYC\nLines: 13\n\nComing from a long line of "hot tempered" people, I know temper when I see\nit. One of the tell tale signs/fruits that give non-christians away - is\nwhen their net replies are acrid, angry and sarcastic. \n\nWe in the net village do have a laugh or two when professed, born again\nchristians verbally attack people who might otherwise have been won to\nchristianity and had originally joined the discussions because they were\n"spiritually hungry." Instead of answering questions with sweetness and\nsincerity, these chrisitan net-warriors, "flame" the queries. \n\nYou don\'t need any enemies. You already do yourselves the greatest harm.\n\nAgain I say, foolish, foolish, foolish.\n',
'From: rind@enterprise.bih.harvard.edu (David Rind)\nSubject: Re: Arrhythmia\nOrganization: Beth Israel Hospital, Harvard Medical School, Boston Mass., USA\nLines: 26\nNNTP-Posting-Host: enterprise.bih.harvard.edu\n\nIn article <1993Apr22.205509.23198@husc3.harvard.edu>\n perry1@husc10.harvard.edu (Alexis Perry) writes:\n>In article <1993Apr22.031423.1@vaxc.stevens-tech.edu>\n u96_averba@vaxc.stevens-tech.edu writes:\n\n>>doctors said that he could die from it, and the medication caused\n\n>\tIs it that serious? My EKG often comes back with a few irregular\n>beats. Another question: Is a low blood potassium level very bad? My\n>doctor seems concerned, but she tends to worry too much in general.\n\nThe term arrhythmia is usually used to encompass a wide range of abnormal\nheart rhythms (cardiac dysrhythmias). Some of them are very serious\nwhile others are completely benign. Having "a few irregular beats"\non an EKG could be serious depending on what those beats were and\nwhen they occurred, or could be of no significance.\n\nLow blood potassium levels probably predispose people with underlying\nheart disease to develop arrhythmias. Very low potassium levels are\nclearly dangerous, but it is not clear how much of a problem\nlow-end-of-normal levels are: a lot of cardiologists seem to treat\nanyone with even a mildly low-normal potassium level.\n\n-- \nDavid Rind\nrind@enterprise.bih.harvard.edu\n',
'From: spp@zabriskie.berkeley.edu (Steve Pope)\nSubject: Re: Is MSG sensitivity superstition?\nOrganization: U.C. Berkeley -- ERL\nLines: 16\nDistribution: world\nNNTP-Posting-Host: zion.berkeley.edu\n\n| article <1qjc0fINN841@gap.caltech.edu> carl@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU writes:\n|| Now, if instead of using the MSG as a food additive, you put the MSG \n|| in gelatin capsules or whatever, there may not\n|| be a reaction, becasue the _sensory_response_ might be\n|| a necessary element in the creation of the MSG reaction. (I\'ll bet \n|| the bogus medical researchers never even thought about \n|| that obvious fact.)\n\n| Gee. He means "placebo effect." Sorry, but the researchers DO know about\n| this.\n\nCarl, it is not "placebo effect" if as hypothesised the \nsensory response to MSG\'s effect on flavor is responsible\nfor the MSG reaction.\n\nSteve\n',
'From: vgwlu@dunsell.calgary.chevron.com (greg w. luft)\nSubject: Relief of Pain Caused by Cancer\nOrganization: chevron\nLines: 51\n\n\n I am not sure if this is the proper group to post this to but here goes anyway.\n\n About five years ago my mother was diagnosed with having cancer in the lymph nodes\n under one of her arms. After the doctors removed the cancerous area she had full movement\n of her arm with only slight aching under her arm when she moved it. Over the course of\n the next two years the aching got more severe and her complaining to the doctors produced\n the explanation that it was scar tissue causing the pain. At this time her doctor \n suggested that some physiotherapy should be employed to break up the scar tissue.\n\n While attending one of her therapy sessions, while her arm was being \n manipulated, some damage occured (nerve?) which caused the level of pain to permanently\n increase severly (controlled by Tylenol 3s) and some loss of use of the arm (\n palsied wrist and almost no outward lateral movement). With great persistence on her part\n the doctors looked further into the issue and discovered that not all of the cancer had\n been removed and another tumor had grown under the arm. This was removed also but the\n pain in the arm has not decreased. The doctors are not sure exactly why the pain is \n persisting but feel some sort of nerve damage has occured and they have employed Tylenol 3\n and soon Morphine to relieve the pain. She has tried acupuncture by this only provides\n minor reductions in pain and is only short term. \n\n My questions are: \n\n Has anyone has heard of similar cases and what, if anything, was done to reduce the\n levels of pain?\n\n Are their methods to block nerves so that the pain can be reduced?\n\n Are their methods to restore nerves so that loss of arm function can be restored?\n\n\n Any general suggestions on pain reduction would be greatly appreciated.\n \n \n Please respond by email because I do not always get chance to read this group.\n\n If anyone knows of some literature that may be useful to this case or another newsgroup\n that I should be posting this to it would also be appreciated.\n \n \n\n\n\n\n\n\n-- \nGregory W. Luft Internet: vgwlu@calgary.chevron.com\nChevron Petroleum Techonology Company Tel: (403) 234-6238\n500, Fifth Ave. S.W. Fax: (403) 234-5215\nCalgary, Alberta, Canada T2P 0L7\n',
'From: (Phil Bowermaster)\nSubject: C. S. Lewis is OK (was Ancient Books)\nOrganization: U S WEST Advanced Technologies\nLines: 49\n\nIn article <Apr.14.03.07.58.1993.5438@athos.rutgers.edu>,\nmayne@ds3.scri.fsu.edu (Bill Mayne) wrote:\n\n> \n> The last sentence is ironic, since so many readers of\n> soc.religion.christian seem to not be embarrassed by apologists such as\n> Josh McDowell and C.S. Lewis. The above also expresses a rather odd sense\n> of history. What makes you think the masses in Aquinas\' day, who were\n> mostly illiterate, knew any more about rhetoric and logic than most people\n> today? If writings from the period seem elevated consider that only the\n> cream of the crop, so to speak, could read and write. If everyone in\n> the medieval period "knew the rules" it was a matter of uncritically\n> accepting what they were told.\n> \n> Bill Mayne\n> \n> [This may be unfair to Lewis. The most prominent fallacy attributed\n> to him is the "liar, lunatic, and lord". As quoted by many\n> Christians, this is a logical fallacy. In its original context, it\n> was not. --clh]\n\n\nExactly. \n\nC. S. Lewis has taken a couple of pretty severe hits in this group lately.\nFirst somebody was accusing him of being self-righteous and unconvincing.\nNow we are told that we Christians should be embarrassed by him. (As well\nas by Josh McDowell, about whom I have no comment, having never read his\nwork.)\n\nAnyone who thinks that C. S. Lewis was self-righteous ought to read his\nintroduction to The Problem of Pain, which is his theodicy. In it, he\nexplains that he wanted to publish the book anonymously. Why? Although he\nbelieved in the argument he was presenting, he did not want to seem to\npresume to tell others how brave they should be in the face of their own\nsuffering. He did not want people to think that he was presenting himself\nas some kind of model of fortitude, or that he was anything other than what\nhe considered himself to be -- "a great coward." \n\nOFM has adequately handled the question of whether we ought to be\nembarrassed by Lewis\' liar/lunatic/lord argument (which, by the way, is\npart of a *much* bigger discourse.) I would just like to add that, far from\nbeing embarrassed by Lewis, I am in a state of continual amazement at the\nsoundness and clarity of the arguments he presents. \n\n- Phil -\n\nHey, we\'re talking about the PHONE COMPANY, here. The Phone Company doesn\'t\nhave opinions on this kind of stuff. This is all me.\n',
'From: doyle+@pitt.edu (Howard R Doyle)\nSubject: Re: Hernia\nOrganization: Pittsburgh TRansplant Institute\nLines: 41\n\nIn article <C5qopx.5Mq@encore.com> sheffner@encore.com (Steve Heffner) writes:\n>A bit more than a year ago, a hernia in my right groin was\n>discovered. It had produced a dull pain in that area. The hernia\n>was repaired using the least intrusive (orthoscopic?) method and a\n>"plug and patch".\n\n\n\nI suspect you mean laparoscopic instead of orthoscopic.\n\n\n\n>Now the pain occurs more often. My GP couldn\'t identify any\n>specific problem. The surgen who performed the original procedure\n>now says that yes there is a "new" hernia in the same area and he\n>said that he has to cut into the area for the repair this time.\n>\n>My question to the net: Is there a nonintrusive method to\n>determine if in fact there is a hernia or if the pain is from\n>something else?\n\n\nBy far the (still) best method to diagnose a hernia is old fashioned\nphysical examination. If you have an obvious hernia sac coming down \ninto your scrotum, or a bulge in your groin that is brought about by\nincreasing intra-abdominal pressure....\nSometimes is not that obvious. The hernia is small and you can only \ndetect it by putting your finger into the inguinal canal. \nWhether you have a recurrent hernia, or this is related to the previous\noperation, I can\'t tell you. The person that examined you is in the best\nposition to make that determination.\n\nAre there non-invasive ways of diagnosing a hernia? Every now and then \nfolks write about CT scans and ultrasounds for this. But these are far\ntoo expensive, and unlikely to be better than a trained examining finger.\n\n\n====================================\n\nHoward Doyle\ndoyle+@pitt.edu\n',
"From: jsledd@ssdc.sas.upenn.edu (James Sledd)\nSubject: proof of resurection\nOrganization: Social Science Computing\nLines: 44\n\nI have a few minor problems with the article posted as proof of \nChrist's resurrection. \n\nFirst the scriptural quotations:\n\nThis sort of reasoning is such that if you beleive you are justified,\nif not then your beleif is in vain, so you might as well beleive. Most\nof these quotations are of people who do beleive. People who would\ntry to justify their own positions.\n\nSecond the logical proof:\n\n>quoted text...\n>\n>From: xx155@yfn.ysu.edu (Family Magazine Sysops)\n>Subject: WITNESS & PROOF OF CHRIST'S RESURRECTION\n>Date: 11 Apr 93 05:01:19 GMT\n>\n>[much deleted]\n>\n> 4. In nearly 20 centuries, no body has ever been\n> produced to refute Jesus' assertion that He\n> *would indeed* rise from the dead.\n>\n> 5. The probability of being able to perpetrate such\n> a hoax successfully upon the entire world for\n> nearly 20 centuries is astronomically negative!\n> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^\n>...end quoted text\n\n The period of time that has elapsed from the event growing larger\ndoes not increase the odds that a hoax would be discovered. In fact\nthe longer a hoax is perpetuated the stronger it becomes.\n\nFinally:\n\nThere is no proof of the resurrection of Christ, except in our spirits\ncommunion with his, and the Father's. It is a matter of FAITH, belief\nwithout logical proof. Incedently one of the largest stumbling blocks for\nrational western man, myself included.\n\nI hope that this is taken in the spirit it was intended and not as a \nrejection of the resurrection's occurance. I beleive, but I wanted to point \nout the weakness of logical proofs.\n",
'From: geb@cs.pitt.edu (Gordon Banks)\nSubject: Re: Update (Help!) [was "What is This [Is it Lyme\'s?]"]\nArticle-I.D.: pitt.19436\nReply-To: geb@cs.pitt.edu (Gordon Banks)\nOrganization: Univ. of Pittsburgh Computer Science\nLines: 42\n\nIn article <1993Mar29.181958.3224@equator.com> jod@equator.com (John Setel O\'Donnell) writes:\n>\n>I shouldn\'t have to be posting here. Physicians should know the Lyme\n>literature beyond Steere & co\'s denial merry-go-round. Patients\n>should get correctly diagnosed and treated.\n>\n\nWhy do you think Steere is doing this? Isn\'t he acting in good faith?\nAfter all, as the "discoverer" of Lyme for all intents and purposes,\nthe more famous Lyme gets, the more famous Steere gets. I don\'t\nsee the ulterior motive here. It is easy for me to see it the\nthose physicians who call everything lyme and treat everything.\nThere is a lot of money involved.\n\n>I\'m a computer engineer, not a doctor (,Jim). I was building a \n>computer manufacturing company when I got Lyme. I lost several \n>years of my life to near-total disability; partially as a result,\n>the company failed, taking with it over 150 jobs, my savings,\n>and everything I\'d worked for for years. I\'m one of the "lucky"\n>ones in that I found a physician through the Lyme foundation\n>and now can work almost full-time, although I have persistent\n>infection and still suffer a variety of sypmtoms. And now\n>I try to follow the Lyme literature.\n>\n\nWell, it is tragic what has happened to you, but it doesn\'t\nnecessarily make you the most objective source of information\nabout it. If your whole life is focussed around this, you\nmay be too emotionally involved to be advising other people\nwho may or may not have Lyme. Certainly advocacy of more research\non Lyme would not be out of order, though, and people like you\ncan be very effective there.\n\n\n\n\n\n-- \n----------------------------------------------------------------------------\nGordon Banks N3JXP | "Skepticism is the chastity of the intellect, and\ngeb@cadre.dsl.pitt.edu | it is shameful to surrender it too soon." \n----------------------------------------------------------------------------\n',
"From: BOCHERC@hartwick.edu\nSubject: Does God Love You?\nLines: 5\n\nI simply wish to thank Dave Mielke (dave@bnr.ca) for sharing the\ntract concerning God's love. It was most welcome to me and a great\nsource of comfort.\n\nCarol Bocher\n",
'From: keith@cco.caltech.edu (Keith Allan Schneider)\nSubject: Re: Keith Schneider - Stealth Poster?\nOrganization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena\nLines: 25\nNNTP-Posting-Host: punisher.caltech.edu\n\narromdee@jyusenkyou.cs.jhu.edu (Ken Arromdee) writes:\n\n>>But, if you were to discuss the merits of racism, or its psycholgical\n>>benefits, you would do well to have experienced it personally.\n>When you speak of "experiencing religion" you mean someone should believe in\n>a religion.\n\nThat\'s right, and this is pretty impossible, right? It would be ideal if\nwe could believe for a while, just to try out religion, and only then\ndetermine which course of thought suits us best. But again, this is not\npossible. Not that religion warrants belief, but the belief carries with\nit some psychological benefits. There are also some psychological\nburdens, too.\n\n>When you speak of "experiencing racism", do you mean that someone should\n>believe in racism, or that they should have racist things done to them? For\n>parallelism, the former must be what you meant, but it seems to be an odd\n>usage of the phrase.\n\nWell, if there were some psychological or other benefits gained from racism,\nthey could only be fully understood or judged by persons actually "believing"\nin racism. Of course, the parallel happens to be a poor one, but you\noriginated it.\n\nkeith\n',
"From: bcash@crchh410.NoSubdomain.NoDomain (Brian Cash)\nSubject: Re: A visit from the Jehovah's Witnesses\nNntp-Posting-Host: crchh410\nOrganization: BNR, Inc.\nLines: 51\n\nIn article <1993Apr2.115300.803@batman.bmd.trw.com>, jbrown@batman.bmd.trw.com writes:\n|> In article <C4twso.8M2@HQ.Ileaf.COM>, mukesh@HQ.Ileaf.COM (Mukesh Prasad) writes:\n|> > In article <1993Apr1.142854.794@batman.bmd.trw.com> jbrown@batman.bmd.trw.com writes:\n|> >> In article <1p8v1aINN9e9@matt.ksu.ksu.edu>, strat@matt.ksu.ksu.edu (Steve Davis) writes:\n|> >> > bskendig@netcom.com (Brian Kendig) writes:\n|> >> > \n|> >> >>- The Earth is evil because Satan rules over it.\n|> >> > \n|> >> > This is a new one to me. I guess it's been a while since a Witness\n|> >> > bothered with me. Are they implying that Satan is omniscient? You\n|> >> > might try tricking them into saying that Satan is 'all-knowing' and\n|> >> > then use that statement to show them how their beliefs are\n|> >> > self-contradictary. \n|> >> \n|> >> No, Satan is not omniscient, but he does hold dominion over the earth\n|> >> according to Christian theology (note, not to be confused with JW's\n|> >> theology). \n|> >> \n|> > \n|> > What are the standard theologies on who/what created Satan,\n|> > and why?\n|> > \n|> \n|> Orthodox Christian theology states that God created Lucifer (Satan)\n|> along with the other angels, presumably because He wanted beings to\n|> celebrate (glorify) existence and life (and thereby, God) along with\n|> Him. Actually the whys and wherefores of God's motivations for \n|> creating the angels are not a big issue within Christian theology.\n|> \n|> But God created Lucifer with a perfect nature and gave him along with\n|> the other angels free moral will. Lucifer was a high angel (perhaps\n|> the highest) with great authority. It seems that his greatness caused\n|> him to begin to take pride in himself and desire to be equal to or\n|> greater than God. He forgot his place as a created being. He exalted\n|> himself above God, and thereby evil and sin entered creation.\n\nActually, the story goes that Lucifer refused to bow before MAN as \nGod commanded him to. Lucifer was devoted to God.\n\nOh yeah, there is nothing in Genesis that says the snake was anything\nmore than a snake (well, a talking one...had legs at the time, too).\n\nI don't think pointing out contradictions in STORIES is the best way\nto show the error in theology: if they think a supernatural entity\nkicked the first humans out of paradise because they bit into a\nfruit that gave them special powers...well, they might not respond\nwell to reason and logic. :^)\n\nBrian /-|-\\\n\n\n",
'From: darice@yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au (Fred Rice)\nSubject: Re: Ancient islamic rituals\nOrganization: Monash University, Melb., Australia.\nLines: 72\n\nIn <1pkqe2INN54n@lynx.unm.edu> cfaehl@vesta.unm.edu (Chris Faehl) writes:\n\n>In article <1993Apr3.081052.11292@monu6.cc.monash.edu.au>, darice@yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au (Fred Rice) writes:\n>[deleted, to get to the point:]\n>> \n>> Therefore, in a nutshell, my opinion is that pre-marital sex makes the\n>> likelihood of extra-marital sex more probable. Furthermore,\n>> in my opinion, extra-marital sex helps break down partnerships and leads\n>> to greater divorce rates. This in turn, in my opinion, creates trauma\n>> and a less stable environment for children, who are then, in my opinion,\n>> more likely to grow up with psychological problems such as depression,\n>> etc. And thus, sex outside of marriage is, in the long run, harmful to\n>> society.\n\n>I think that you are drawing links where there are none - having sex before\n>marriage has nothing to do with adultery once committed into marriage. The\n>issue as I see it is more of how committed you are to not foisting pain on\n>your spouse, and how confident you are about yourself. \n>\tIn addition, what someone does within their marriage is their own \n>business, not mine, and not yours. I have witnessed strong relationships\n>that incorporate extra-marital sex. \n>\tI would agree with your assertion about children - children should not be witness to such confusing relationships - if adultery is stressful to \n>adults, which I assume it in general is, how can we expect children to \n>understand it?\n>> \n>> Where is the evidence for my opinions? At the moment, there are just\n>> generalities I can cite. For example, I read that in the 20th century,\n>> the percentage of youth (and people in general) who suffer from\n>> depression has been steadily climbing in Western societies (probably\n>> what I was reading referred particularly to the USA). Similarly, one\n>> can detect a trend towards greater occurrence of sex outside of marriage\n>> in this century in Western societies -- particularly with the "sexual\n>> revolution" of the 60\'s, but even before that I think (otherwise the\n>> "sexual revolution" of the 60\'s would not have been possible),\n>> particularly with the gradual weakening of Christianity and consequently\n>> Christian moral teachings against sex outside of marriage. I propose\n>> that these two trends -- greater level of general depression in society\n>> (and other psychological problems) and greater sexual promiscuity -- are\n>> linked, with the latter being a prime cause of the former. I cannot\n>> provide any evidence beyond this at this stage, but the whole thesis\n>> seems very reasonable to me and I request that people ponder upon it.\n\n>Why is it more reasonable than the trend towards obesity and the trend towards\n>depression? You can\'t just pick your two favorite trends, notice a correlation \n>in them, and make a sweeping statement of generality. I mean, you CAN, and \n>people HAVE, but that does not mean that it is a valid or reasonable thesis. \n>At best it\'s a gross oversimplification of the push-pull factors people \n>experience. \n\nMy argument is mainly a proposal of what I think is a plausible argument\nagainst extra-marital sex -- one which I personally believe has some\ntruth. My main purpose for posting it here is to show that a\n_plausible_ argument can be made against extra-marital sex. At this\nstage I am not saying that this particular viewpoint is proven or\nanything like that, just that it is plausible. To try to convince you\nall of this particular point of view, I would probably have to do a lot\nof work researching what has been done in this field, etc., in order to\ngather further evidence, which I simply do not have time to do now. \n\nAlso note that I said that I think extra-marital sex is "a prime cause"\n(in my opinion) of the generally greater levels of psychological\nproblems, especially depression, in Western societies. I am not saying\nit is "the prime cause" or "the only cause", just "a prime cause" --\ni.e. one of the significant contributions to this trend. I think when\nyou say you think my view is simplistic, you have forgotten this -- I\nadmit that there are probably other factors, but I do think that\nextra-marital sex (and, IMO, subsequent destabilization of the family)\nis a significant factor in the rise in psychological problems like\ndepression in Western society this century.\n \n Fred Rice\n darice@yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au \n',
'From: g9134255@wampyr.cc.uow.edu.au (Coronado Emmanuel Abad)\nSubject: Fonts in POV??\nOrganization: University of Wollongong, NSW, Australia.\nLines: 11\nNNTP-Posting-Host: wampyr.cc.uow.edu.au\nKeywords: fonts, raytrace\n\n\n\n\tI have seen several ray-traced scenes (from MTV or was it \nRayShade??) with stroked fonts appearing as objects in the image.\nThe fonts/chars had color, depth and even textures associated with\nthem. Now I was wondering, is it possible to do the same in POV??\n\n\nThanks,\n\nNoel\n',
'From: david-s@hsr.no (David A. Sjoen)\nSubject: \'Moody Monthly\' and \'Moody\' the same?\nOrganization: Rogaland University Centre\nLines: 15\n\nAre \'Moody Monthly\' and \'Moody\' the same magazine (name change in recent\nyears)?\n\nIf not: Could someone post the address to \'Moody Monthly\'?\n\n:)avid\n\n-- \n __________________ ___________________________________________________\n| David A. Sjoen |"My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they |\n| Gulaksveien 4 | follow me; and I give them life eternal; and they |\n| N-4017 STAVANGER | shall never perish, and no one shall seize them |\n| Norway | out of my hand." John 10:27-29 |\n`------------------\'---------------------------------------------------\'\n E-MAIL: david-s@hsr.no (Rogaland University Centre, Norway)\n',
"From: sandvik@newton.apple.com (Kent Sandvik)\nSubject: Re: The Inimitable Rushdie (Re: An Anecdote about Islam\nOrganization: Cookamunga Tourist Bureau\nLines: 16\n\nIn article <115288@bu.edu>, jaeger@buphy.bu.edu (Gregg Jaeger) wrote:\n> He'd have to be precise about is rejection of God and his leaving Islam.\n> One is perfectly free to be muslim and to doubt and question the\n> existence of God, so long as one does not _reject_ God. I am sure that\n> Rushdie has be now made his atheism clear in front of a sufficient \n> number of proper witnesses. The question in regard to the legal issue\n> is his status at the time the crime was committed. \n\nGregg, so would you consider that Rushdie would now be left alone,\nand he could have a normal life? In other words, does Islam support\nthe notion of forgiving?\n\nCheers,\nKent\n---\nsandvik@newton.apple.com. ALink: KSAND -- Private activities on the net.\n",
'From: gwang@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Ge Wang)\nSubject: Packages for Fashion Designers?\nNntp-Posting-Host: bottom.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu\nOrganization: The Ohio State University\nLines: 3\n\nHello, I am looking for commercial software packages for professional\nfashion designers. Any recommendation and pointers are greatly appreciated.\nPlease e-mail me, if you may. Thanks a million. -- Ge\n',
'From: zyeh@caspian.usc.edu (zhenghao yeh)\nSubject: Ellipse from Its Offset\nOrganization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA\nLines: 17\nDistribution: world\nNNTP-Posting-Host: caspian.usc.edu\nKeywords: ellipse\n\n\nHi! Everyone,\n\nSince some people quickly solved the problem of determining a sphere from\n4 points, I suddenly recalled a problem which is how to find the ellipse\nfrom its offset. For example, given 5 points on the offset, can you find\nthe original ellipse analytically?\n\nI spent two months solving this problem by using analytical method last year,\nbut I failed. Under the pressure, I had to use other method - nonlinear\nprogramming technique to deal with this problem approximately.\n\nAny ideas will be greatly appreciated. Please post here, let the others\nshare our interests.\n\nYeh\nUSC\n',
'From: rgasch@nl.oracle.com (Robert Gasch)\nSubject: Re: Homeopathy: a respectable medical tradition?\nOrganization: Oracle Europe\nLines: 47\nX-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]\n\nGordon Banks (geb@cs.pitt.edu) wrote:\n: In article <3794@nlsun1.oracle.nl> rgasch@nl.oracle.com (Robert Gasch) writes:\n: >\n: >: From a business point of view, it might make sense. It depends on\n: >: the personality of the practitioner. If he can charm the patients\n: >: into coming, homeopathy can be very profitable. It won\'t be covered\n: >: by insurance, however. Just keep that in mind. Myself, I\'d have \n: >^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^\n: >\n: >In many European countries Homepathy is accepted as a method of curing\n: >(or at least alleiating) many conditions to which modern medicine has \n: >no answer. In most of these countries insurance pays for the \n: >treatments.\n: >\n\n: Accepted by whom? Not by scientists. There are people\n: in every country who waste time and money on quackery.\n: In Britain and Scandanavia, where I have worked, it was not paid for.\n: What are "most of these countries?" I don\'t believe you.\n\nIn Holland insurences pay for Homeopathic treatment. In Germany they do\nso as well. I Austria they do if you have a condition which can not be \nhelped by "normal" medicine (happened to me). Switzerland seems to be \nthe same as Austria (I have direct experience in the Swiss case).\n\nAt the Univeristy of Vienna (I believe Innsbruck as well) homeopathy\ncan be taken in Med. school.\n\nI found that in combination with Acupuncture it changed my life from\nliving hell to a condition which enables me to lead a relatively \nnormal life. I found that modern medicine was powerless to cure me\nof a *severe* case of Neurodermitis (Note: I mean cure, not \nsurpress the symptoms, which is what modern medicine attempts to \ndo in the case of Neurodermitis). \n\nI\'m not saying that Homeopathy is scientific, but that it can offer \nhelp in areas in which modern medicine is absolutely helpless.\n\nFrom reading your aritcle it seems that your have some deeply rooted\nbeliefs about this issue (this is not intended to be offensive or \nsarcastic - it just sounded like that to me) which makes me doubt \nif you can read this with an open mind. If you do/can, please excuse\nmy last comment.\n\n---> Robert\nrgasch@nl.oracle.com\n\n',
'From: jaeger@buphy.bu.edu (Gregg Jaeger)\nSubject: Re: The Inimitable Rushdie (Re: An Anecdote about Islam\nOrganization: Boston University Physics Department\nLines: 63\n\nIn article <1993Apr14.121134.12187@monu6.cc.monash.edu.au> darice@yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au (Fred Rice) writes:\n\n>>In article <C5C7Cn.5GB@ra.nrl.navy.mil> khan@itd.itd.nrl.navy.mil (Umar Khan) writes:\n\n>I just borrowed a book from the library on Khomeini\'s fatwa etc.\n\n>I found this useful passage regarding the legitimacy of the "fatwa":\n\n>"It was also common knowledge as prescribed by Islamic law, that the\n>sentence was only applicable where the jurisdiction of Islamic law\n>applies. Moreover, the sentence has to be passed by an Islamic court\n>and executed by the state machinery through the due process of the law.\n>Even in Islamic countries, let alone in non-Muslim lands, individuals\n>cannot take the law into their own hands. The sentence when passed,\n>must be carried out by the state through the usual machinery and not by\n>individuals. Indeed it becomes a criminal act to take the law into\n>one\'s own hands and punish the offender unless it is in the process of\n>self-defence. Moreover, the offender must be brought to the notice of\n>the court and it is the court who shoud decide how to deal with him.\n>This law applies equally to Muslim as well as non-Muslim territories.\n\n\nI agree fully with the above statement and is *precisely* what I meant\nby my previous statements about Islam not being anarchist and the\nlaw not being _enforcible_ despite the _law_ being applicable. \n\n\n>Hence, on such clarification from the ulama [Islamic scholars], Muslims\n>in Britain before and after Imam Khomeini\'s fatwa made it very clear\n>that since Islamic law is not applicable to Britain, the hadd\n>[compulsory] punishment cannot be applied here."\n\n\nI disagree with this conclusion about the _applicability_ of the \nIslamic law to all muslims, wherever they may be. The above conclusion \ndoes not strictly follow from the foregoing, but only the conclusion \nthat the fatwa cannot be *enforced* according to Islamic law. However, \nI do agree that the punishment cannot be applied to Rushdie even *were*\nit well founded.\n\n>Wow... from the above, it looks like that from an Islamic viewpoint\n>Khomeini\'s "fatwa" constitutes a "criminal act" .... perhaps I could\n>even go out on a limb and call Khomeini a "criminal" on this basis....\n\n\nCertainly putting a price on the head of Rushdie in Britain is a criminal \nact according to Islamic law. \n\n\n>Anyhow, I think it is understood by _knowledgeable_ Muslims that\n>Khomeini\'s "fatwa" is Islamically illegitimate, at least on the basis\n>expounded above. Others, such as myself and others who have posted here\n>(particularly Umar Khan and Gregg Jaeger, I think) go further and say\n>that even the punishment constituted in the fatwa is against Islamic law\n>according to our understanding.\n\nYes.\n\n\n\n\n\nGregg\n',
'From: jkellett@netcom.com (Joe Kellett)\nSubject: Re: Hell\nOrganization: Netcom\nLines: 17\n\nIn article <Apr.10.05.33.44.1993.14422@athos.rutgers.edu> mcovingt@aisun3.ai.uga.edu (Michael Covington) writes:\n>\n>In a short poem ("God in His mercy made / the fixed pains of Hell"),\n>C. S. Lewis expresses an idea that I\'m sure was current among others,\n>but I haven\'t be able to find its source:\n>\n>that even Hell is an expression of mercy, because God limits the amount\n>of separation from Him, and hence the amount of agony, that one can\n>achieve.\n>\n\nI have also heard it called an expression of mercy, because Heaven would be\nfar more agonizing for those who had rejected God.\n\n-- \nJoe Kellett\njkellett@netcom.com\n',
'From: fraseraj@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (Andrew J Fraser)\nSubject: Re: God-shaped hole (was Re: "Accepting Jeesus in your heart...")\nOrganization: Glasgow University Computing Science Dept.\nLines: 14\n\n[Several people were involved in trying to figure out who first used\nthe phrase "God-shaped hole". --clh]\n\n"There is a God shaped vacuum in all of us" (or something to that effect) is\ngenerally attributed to Blaise Pascal.\nWhat I want to know is how can you have a God shaped vacuum inside of you if\nGod is in fact infinite (or omnipresent)?\n\n=========================================================================\n|| Name: Andrew James Fraser E-mail: fraseraj@dcs.gla.ac.uk ||\n|| ESE-3H student, University of Glasgow.\t\t\t ||\n|| Standard disclaimers... ||\n\n[Don\'t you think you\'re being a tad too literal with this metaphor? --clh]\n',
"From: nfotis@ntua.gr (Nick C. Fotis)\nSubject: Re: more on radiosity\nOrganization: National Technical University of Athens\nLines: 34\n\namann@iam.unibe.ch (Stephan Amann) writes:\n\n>In article 66319@yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU, xz775327@longs.LANCE.ColoState.Edu (Xia Zhao) writes:\n>>\n>>\n>>In article <1993Apr19.131239.11670@aragorn.unibe.ch>, you write:\n>>|>\n>>|>\n>>|> Let's be serious... I'm working on a radiosity package, written in C++.\n>>|> I would like to make it public domain. I'll announce it in c.g. the minute\n>>|> I finished it.\n>>|>\n>>|> That were the good news. The bad news: It'll take another 2 months (at least)\n>>|> to finish it.\n\nPlease note that there are some radiosity packages in my Resource Listing\n(under the Subject 3: FTP list)\n\nGreetings,\nNick.\n--\nNick (Nikolaos) Fotis National Technical Univ. of Athens, Greece\nHOME: 16 Esperidon St., InterNet : nfotis@theseas.ntua.gr\n Halandri, GR - 152 32 UUCP: mcsun!ariadne!theseas!nfotis\n Athens, GREECE FAX: (+30 1) 77 84 578\n\nUSENET Editor of comp.graphics Resource Listing and soc.culture.greece FAQ\nNTUA/UA ACM Student Chapter Chair - we're organizing a small conference\n in Comp. Graphics, call if you're interested to participate.\n-- \nNick (Nikolaos) Fotis National Technical Univ. of Athens, Greece\nHOME: 16 Esperidon St., InterNet : nfotis@theseas.ntua.gr\n Halandri, GR - 152 32 UUCP: mcsun!ariadne!theseas!nfotis\n Athens, GREECE FAX: (+30 1) 77 84 578\n",
"From: jimj@contractor.EBay.Sun.COM (Jim Jones)\nSubject: Post-fever rashes: I get 'em every time\nOrganization: Sun Microsystems, Inc. Mt. View, Ca.\nLines: 18\nDistribution: world\nReply-To: jimj@contractor.EBay.Sun.COM (Jim Jones)\nNNTP-Posting-Host: contractor.ebay.sun.com\n\nThe subject-line says it: every time I run a fever, I get an amazing\nrosy rash over my torso and arms. Fortunately, it doesn't itch.\n\nThe rash always comes on the day after the\nfever breaks and no matter what the illness was: cold, flu, whatever.\nIt started happening about four years ago after I moved to my current\ntown, although I don't know if that has anything to do with anything.\n\nSeverity and persistance of the rash seems to vary with the fever:\na severe or long-lasting fever brings a long-lasting rash. A mild fever\nseems to bring rashes that go away faster. \n\nAnybody know what might be causing this? It's no more than an \nembarassment, but I'd be curious to know what's going on. Am I carrying\nsome kind of fever-resistant bug that goes wild when fever knocks out\nits competition?\n\nJim Jones\n",
'From: ab@nova.cc.purdue.edu (Allen B)\nSubject: Re: TIFF: philosophical significance of 42\nOrganization: Purdue University\nLines: 39\n\nIn article <prestonm.735400848@cs.man.ac.uk> prestonm@cs.man.ac.uk (Martin \nPreston) writes:\n> Why not use the PD C library for reading/writing TIFF files? It took me a\n> good 20 minutes to start using them in your own app.\n\nI certainly do use it whenever I have to do TIFF, and it usually works\nvery well. That\'s not my point. I\'m >philosophically< opposed to it\nbecause of its complexity.\n\nThis complexity has led to some programs\' poor TIFF writers making\nsome very bizarre files, other programs\' inability to load TIFF\nimages (though they\'ll save them, of course), and a general\ninability to interchange images between different environments\ndespite the fact they all think they understand TIFF.\n\nAs the saying goes, "It\'s not me I\'m worried about- it\'s all the\n>other< assholes out there!" I\'ve had big trouble with misuse and\nabuse of TIFF over the years, and I chalk it all up to the immense (and\nunnecessary) complexity of the format.\n\nIn the words of the TIFF 5.0 spec, Appendix G, page G-1 (capitalized\nemphasis mine):\n\n"The only problem with this sort of success is that TIFF was designed\nto be powerful and flexible, at the expense of simplicity. It takes a\nfair amount of effort to handle all the options currently defined in\nthis specification (PROBABLY NO APPLICATION DOES A COMPLETE JOB),\nand that is currently the only way you can be >sure< that you will be\nable to import any TIFF image, since there are so many\nimage-generating applications out there now."\n\n\nIf a program (or worse all applications) can\'t read >every< TIFF\nimage, that means there are some it won\'t- some that I might have to\ndeal with. Why would I want my images to be trapped in that format? I\ndon\'t and neither should anyone who agrees with my reasoning- not\nthat anyone does, of course! :-)\n\nab\n',
"From: noring@netcom.com (Jon Noring)\nSubject: Re: Good Grief! (was Re: Candida Albicans: what is it?)\nOrganization: Netcom Online Communications Services (408-241-9760 login: guest)\nLines: 32\n\nIn article dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer) writes:\n>In article noring@netcom.com (Jon Noring) writes:\n\nGood grief again.\n\nWhy the anger? I must have really touched a raw nerve.\n\nLet's see: I had symptoms that resisted all other treatments. Sporanox\ntotally alleviated them within one week. Hmmm, I must be psychotic. Yesss!\nThat's it - my illness was all in my mind. Thanks Steve for your correct\ndiagnosis - you must have a lot of experience being out there in trenches,\ntreating hundreds of patients a week. Thank you. I'm forever in your\ndebt.\n\nJon\n\n(oops, gotta run, the men in white coats are ready to take me away, haha,\nto the happy home, where I can go twiddle my thumbs, basket weave, and\nmoan about my sinuses.)\n\n-- \n\nCharter Member --->>> INFJ Club.\n\nIf you're dying to know what INFJ means, be brave, e-mail me, I'll send info.\n=============================================================================\n| Jon Noring | noring@netcom.com | |\n| JKN International | IP : 192.100.81.100 | FRED'S GOURMET CHOCOLATE |\n| 1312 Carlton Place | Phone : (510) 294-8153 | CHIPS - World's Best! |\n| Livermore, CA 94550 | V-Mail: (510) 417-4101 | |\n=============================================================================\nWho are you? Read alt.psychology.personality! That's where the action is.\n",
'Subject: Re: A visit from the Jehovah\'s Witnesses\nFrom: lippard@skyblu.ccit.arizona.edu (James J. Lippard)\nDistribution: world,local\nOrganization: University of Arizona\nNntp-Posting-Host: skyblu.ccit.arizona.edu\nNews-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41 \nLines: 27\n\nIn article <chrisb.734064380@bAARNie>, chrisb@tafe.sa.edu.au (Chris BELL) writes...\n>jbrown@batman.bmd.trw.com writes:\n> \n>>My syllogism is of the form:\n>>A is B.\n>>C is A.\n>>Therefore C is B.\n> \n>>This is a logically valid construction.\n> \n>>Your syllogism, however, is of the form:\n>>A is B.\n>>C is B.\n>>Therefore C is A.\n> \n>>Therefore yours is a logically invalid construction, \n>>and your comments don\'t apply.\n\nIf all of those are "is"\'s of identity, both syllogisms are valid.\nIf, however, B is a predicate, then the second syllogism is invalid.\n(The first syllogism, as you have pointed out, is valid--whether B\nis a predicate or designates an individual.)\n\nJim Lippard Lippard@CCIT.ARIZONA.EDU\nDept. of Philosophy Lippard@ARIZVMS.BITNET\nUniversity of Arizona\nTucson, AZ 85721\n',
'From: mathew <mathew@mantis.co.uk>\nSubject: Re: <Political Atheists?\nOrganization: Mantis Consultants, Cambridge. UK.\nX-Newsreader: rusnews v1.01\nLines: 22\n\nkmr4@po.CWRU.edu (Keith M. Ryan) writes:\n> ( I am almost sure that Zyklon-B is immediate and painless method of \n> death. If not, insert soem other form. )\n> \n> And, ethnic and minority groups have been killed, mutilated and \n> exterminated through out history, so I guess it was not unusual.\n> \n> So, you would agree that the holocost would be allowed under the US \n> Constitution? [ in so far, the punishment. I doubt they recieved what would \n> be considered a "fair" trial by US standards.\n\nDon\'t be so sure. Look what happened to Japanese citizens in the US during\nWorld War II. If you\'re prepared to say "Let\'s round these people up and\nstick them in a concentration camp without trial", it\'s only a short step to\ngassing them without trial. After all, it seems that the Nazis originally\nonly intended to imprison the Jews; the Final Solution was dreamt up partly\nbecause they couldn\'t afford to run the camps because of the devastation\ncaused by Goering\'s Total War. Those who weren\'t gassed generally died of\nmalnutrition or disease.\n\n\nmathew\n',
"From: ls8139@albnyvms.bitnet (larry silverberg)\nSubject: Re: Good Grief! (was Re: Candida Albicans: what is it?)\nReply-To: ls8139@albnyvms.bitnet\nOrganization: University of Albany, SUNY\nLines: 126\n\nIn article <noringC5snsx.KMo@netcom.com>, noring@netcom.com (Jon Noring) writes:\n>In article rind@enterprise.bih.harvard.edu (David Rind) writes:\n>>In article davpa@ida.liu.se (David Partain) writes:\n>\n>>>Someone I know has recently been diagnosed as having Candida Albicans, \n>>>a disease about which I can find no information. Apparently it has something\n>>>to do with the body's production of yeast while at the same time being highly\n>>>allergic to yeast. Can anyone out there tell me any more about it?\n\nI have a lot of info about this disease. I am posting a small amount of\nit that I extracted. If more is required, e-mail me @\nls8139@gemini.albany.edu. Please, it takes me some time to upload it, so\nbe advised, only request it if you *really* want it.\n\nhere is some info from InfoTrac - Health Reference Center\n\nAlso, check you local of univeristy library. They most likely have the\nInfoTrac cd-rom this info was taken from......\n====================================\n\nInfoTrac - Health Reference Center ~ Oct '89 - Oct '92\n\n Heading: CANDIDA ALBICANS\n !Dictionary Definition\n\n 1. Mosby's Medical and Nursing Dictionary, 2nd edition\n COPYRIGHT 1986 The C.V. Mosby Company \n \n Candida albicans \n -------------------------------------------------------\n A common, budding, yeastlike, microscopic fungal \n organism normally present in the mucous membranes of \n the mouth, intestinal tract, and vagina and on the skin\n of healthy people. Under certain circumstances, it may \n cause superficial infections of the mouth or vagina \n and, less commonly, serious invasive systemic infection\n and toxic reaction. See also candidiasis.\n\n==============================\n\nInfoTrac - Health Reference Center ~ Oct '89 - Oct '92\n THE MATERIAL CONTAINED IN Health Reference Center ~ Oct '89 - Oct '92 IS PROVIDED\n ONLY FOR INFORMATIONAL PURPOSES AND SHOULD NOT BE CONSTRUED AS\n MEDICAL ADVICE OR INSTRUCTION. CONSULT YOUR HEALTH PROFESSIONAL\n FOR ADVICE RELATING TO A MEDICAL PROBLEM OR CONDITION.\n\n\n Heading: CANDIDA ALBICANS\n\n 1. Yogurt cure for Candida. (acidophilus) il v22 East\n West Natural Health July-August '92 p17(1) \n TEXT AVAILABLE\n TEXT \nCOPYRIGHT East West Partners 1992 \n Another folk remedy receives the blessing of medical study. \nResearchers have found that eating a cup of yogurt a day drastically \nreduces a woman's chances of getting vaginal candida, a yeast infection.\n For the year-long study, researchers at Long Island Jewish Medical \nCenter in New Hyde Park, New York, recruited 13 women who suffered from \nchronic yeast infections. For the first 6 months, the women each day ate\n8 ounces of yogurt containing Lactobacillus acidophilus. For the second \n6 months, the women did not eat yogurt. The researchers examined the \nwomen each month and found that incidents of colonization and infection \nwere significantly lower during the period when the women ate yogurt. \n The fungus Candida albicans can live in the body without doing harm. \nIt is an overproliferation of the fungus that leads to infection. The \nresearchers concluded that the L. acidophilus bacteria found in some \nbrands of yogurt retard overgrowth of the fungus. Streptococcus \nthermophilus and L. bulgaricus are the two bacteria most commonly used \nin commercial yogurt production. Neither one appears to exert a \nprotective effect against Candida albicans, however. Women who want to \ntry yogurt as a preventive measure should choose a brand that lists \nacidophilus in its contents. \n--- end ---\n \n\n \n===================================\n\nInfoTrac - Health Reference Center ~ Oct '89 - Oct '92\n THE MATERIAL CONTAINED IN Health Reference Center ~ Oct '89 - Oct '92 IS PROVIDED\n ONLY FOR INFORMATIONAL PURPOSES AND SHOULD NOT BE CONSTRUED AS\n MEDICAL ADVICE OR INSTRUCTION. CONSULT YOUR HEALTH PROFESSIONAL\n FOR ADVICE RELATING TO A MEDICAL PROBLEM OR CONDITION.\n\n\n Heading: CANDIDA ALBICANS\n\n 1. Candida (Monilia). (Infections Caused by Fungi) \n (Infectious Diseases) by Harold C. Neu The Columbia \n Univ. Coll. of Physicians & Surgeons Complete Home \n Medical Guide Edition 2 '89 p472(1) \n TEXT AVAILABLE\n TEXT \nCOPYRIGHT Crown Publishers Inc. 1989 \n Candida (Monilia) \n This disease is usually caused by Candida albicans, a fungus that we \nall carry at one time or another. In some circumstances, though, the \norganisms proliferate, producing symptomatic infection of the mouth, \nintestines, vagina, or skin. When the mouth or vagina are infected, the \ndisease is commonly called thrush. \n Vaginitis caused by Candida often afflicts women on birth control \npills or antibiotics. There is itching and a white, cheesy discharge. \nAmong narcotic addicts, Candida infections can lead to heart valve \ninflammation. \n Diagnosis of Candida infections is confirmed by cultures and blood \ntests. Treatment can be with amphotericin B or orally with ketoconazole.\nThere is no evidence that Candida in the intestine of normal individuals\nleads to disease. All people at one time or another have Candida in \ntheir intestines. Claims for any benefit from special diets or chronic \nantifungal agents is not based on any solid evidence. \n--- end ---\n\n\n\n==========================\nI hope this is informative.\nLarry\n\n~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~\nLive From New York, It's SATURDAY NIGHT...\n\nTonight's special guest:\nLawrence Silverberg from The State University of New York @ Albany\naka:ls8139@gemini.Albany.edu\n~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~\n",
"From: ken@cs.UAlberta.CA (Huisman Kenneth M)\nSubject: images of earth\nNntp-Posting-Host: cab101.cs.ualberta.ca\nOrganization: University of Alberta\nLines: 14\n\nI am looking for some graphic images of earth shot from space. \n( Preferably 24-bit color, but 256 color .gif's will do ).\n\nAnyways, if anyone knows an FTP site where I can find these, I'd greatly\nappreciate it if you could pass the information on. Thanks.\n\n\n( please send email ).\n\n\nKen Huisman\n\nken@cs.ualberta.ca\n\n",
'From: kaminski@netcom.com (Peter Kaminski)\nSubject: Re: Krillean Photography\nLines: 101\nOrganization: The Information Deli - via Netcom / San Jose, California\n\n[Newsgroups: m.h.a added, followups set to most appropriate groups.]\n\nIn <1993Apr19.205615.1013@unlv.edu> todamhyp@charles.unlv.edu (Brian M.\nHuey) writes:\n\n>I am looking for any information/supplies that will allow\n>do-it-yourselfers to take Krillean Pictures.\n\n(It\'s "Kirlian". "Krillean" pictures are portraits of tiny shrimp. :)\n\n[...]\n\n>One might extrapolate here and say that this proves that every object\n>within the universe (as we know it) has its own energy signature.\n\nI think it\'s safe to say that anything that\'s not at 0 degrees Kelvin\nwill have its own "energy signature" -- the interesting questions are\nwhat kind of energy, and what it signifies.\n\nI\'d check places like Edmund Scientific (are they still in business?) --\nor I wonder if you can find ex-Soviet Union equipment for sale somewhere\nin the relcom.* hierarchy.\n\nSome expansion on Kirlian photography:\n\nFrom the credulous side: [Stanway, Andrew, _Alternative Medicine: A Guide\nTo Natural Therapies_, ISBN 0-14-008561-0, New York: Viking Penguin, 1986,\np211, p188. A not-overly critical but still useful overview of 32\nalternative health therapies.]\n\n ...the Russian engineer Semyon Kirlian and his wife Valentina during the\n 1950s. Using alternating currents of high frequency to \'illuminate\'\n their subjects, they photographed them. They found that if an object\n was a good conductor (such as a metal) the picture showed only its\n surface, while the pictures of poor conductors showed the inner\n structure of the object even if it were optically opaque. They found\n too that these high frequency pictures could distinguish between dead\n and living objects. Dead ones had a constant outline whilst living ones\n were subject to changes. The object\'s life activity was also visible in\n highly variable colour patterns.\n\n High frequency photography has now been practised for twenty years in\n the Soviet Union but only a few people in the West have taken it up\n seriously. Professor Douglas Dean in New York and Professor Philips at\n Washington University in St Louis have produced Kirlian photographs and\n others have been produced in Brazil, Austria and Germany.\n\n Using Kirlian photography it is possible to show an aura around people\'s\n fingers, notably around those of healers who are concentrating on\n healing someone. Normally, blue and white rays emanate from the fingers\n but, when a subject becomes angry or excited, the aura turns red and\n spotty. The Soviets are now using Kirlian photography to diagnose\n diseases which cannot be diagnosed by any other method. They argue that\n in most illnesses there is a preclinical stage during which the person\n isn\'t actually ill but is about to be. They claim to be able to\n foretell a disease by photographing its preclinical phase.\n\n But the most exciting phenomenon illustrated by Kirlian photography is\n the phantom effect. During high frequency photography of a leaf from\n which a part had been cut, the photograph gave a complete picture of the\n leaf with the removed part showing up faintly. This is extremely\n important because it backs up the experiences of psychics who can \'see\'\n the legs of amputees as if they were still there. The important thing\n about the Kirlian phantoms though is that the electromagnetic pattern\n can\'t possibly represent a secondary phenomenon -- or the field would\n vanish when the piece of leaf or leg vanished. The energy grid\n contained in a living object must therefore be far more significant than\n the actual object itself.\n\n [...]\n\n Kirlian photography has shown how water mentally \'charged\' by a healer\n has a much richer energy field around it than ordinary water...\n\n\nFrom the incredulous side: [MacRobert, Alan, "Reality shopping; a\nconsumer\'s guide to new age hokum.", _Whole Earth Review_, Autumn 1986,\nvNON4 p4(11). An excellent article providing common-sense guidelines for\nevaluating paranormal claims, and some of the author\'s favorite examples\nof hokum.]\n\n The crank usually works in isolation from everyone else in his field of\n study, making grand discoveries in his basement. Many paranormal\n movements can be traced back to such people -- Kirlian photography, for\n instance. If you pump high-voltage electricity into anything it will\n emit glowing sparks, common knowledge to electrical workers and\n hobbyists for a century. It took a lone basement crank to declare that\n the sparks represent some sort of spiritual aura. In fact, Kirlian\n photography was subjected to rigorous testing by physicists John O.\n Pehek, Harry J. Kyler, and David L. Faust, who reported their findings\n in the October 15, 1976, issue of Science. Their conclusion: The\n variations observed in Kirlian photographs are due solely to moisture on\n the surface of the body and not to mysterious "auras" or even\n necessarily to changes in mood or mental state. Nevertheless,\n television shows, magazines, and books (many by famous\n parapsychologists) continue to promote Kirlian photography as proof of\n the unknown.\n\n-- \nPeter Kaminski\nkaminski@netcom.com\n',
"From: mauaf@csv.warwick.ac.uk (Mr P D Simmons)\nSubject: Why religion and which religion?\nOrganization: Computing Services, University of Warwick, UK\nLines: 46\n\n\n My family has never been particularly religious - singing Christmas\ncarols is about the limit for them. Thus I've never really believed in God and\nheaven, although I don't actually believe that they don't exist either -\nI'm sort of undecided, probably like a lot of people I guess.\n Lately I've been thinking about it all a lot more, and I wondered how\nreligious people can be so convinced that there is a God. I feel as though\nI want to believe, but I'm not used to believing things without proof -\njust as I can't believe that there definitely isn't a God, so I can't\ndefinitely believe that there is. I wondered if most of you were brought up by\nreligious families and never believed any different. Can anyone help me to\nunderstand how your belief and faith in God can be so strong.\n\n Another question that frequently crosses my mind is which religion is\ncorrect?? How do you choose a religion, and how do you know that the Christian\nGod exists and the Gods of other religions don't?? How do you feel about\npeople who follow other religions?? How about atheists?? And people like me -\nagnostics I suppose. Do you respect their religion, and accept their\nbeliefs as just as valid as your own?? Isn't there contradiction between\nthe religions?? How can your religion be more valid than any others?? Do\nyou have less respect for someone if they're not religious, or if they follow\na different religion than you would if they were Christian??\n\n Also, how much of the scriptures are correct?? Are all events in\nthe bible really supposed to have happened, or are they just supposed to be\nstories with morals showing a true Christian how to behave??\n\n I generally follow most of the Christian ideas, which I suppose are\nfairly universal throughout all religions - not killing, stealing, etc, and\n'Loving my neighbour' for want of a better expression. The only part I find\nhard is the actual belief in God.\n\n Finally, what is God's attitude to people like me, who don't quite\nbelieve in Him, but are generally fairly 'good' people. Surely not\nbelieving doesn't make me a worse person?? If not, I find myself wondering why\nI so strongly want to really believe, and to find a religion.\n\n Sorry if I waffled on a bit - I was just writing ideas as they came\ninto my head. I'm sure I probably repeated myself a bit too.\n\n Thanks for the help,\n Paul Simmons\n\n[There's been enough discussion about evidence for Christianity\nrecently that you may prefer to respond to this via email rather than\nas a posting. --clh]\n",
'From: timmbake@mcl.ucsb.edu (Bake Timmons)\nSubject: Re: Amusing atheists and agnostics\nLines: 32\n\n\nMaddi Hausmann chirps:\n\n>timmbake@mcl.ucsb.edu (Bake Timmons) writes: >\n\n>>First of all, you seem to be a reasonable guy. Why not try to be more >honest\n>>and include my sentence afterwards that\n\n>Honest, it just ended like that, I swear!\n\nThat\'s nice.\n\n>Hmmmm...I recognize the warning signs...alternating polite and\n>rude...coming into newsgroup with huge chip on shoulder...calls\n>people names and then makes nice...whirrr...click...whirrr\n\nYou forgot the third equality...whirrr...click...whirrr...see below...\n\n>Whirr click whirr...Frank O\'Dwyer might also be contained\n>in that shell...pop stack to determine...whirr...click..whirr\n\n>"Killfile" Keith Allen Schneider = Frank "Closet Theist" O\'Dwyer = ...\n\n= Maddi "The Mad Sound-O-Geek" Hausmann\n\n...whirrr...click...whirrr\n\n--\nBake Timmons, III\n\n-- "...there\'s nothing higher, stronger, more wholesome and more useful in life\nthan some good memory..." -- Alyosha in Brothers Karamazov (Dostoevsky)\n',
'From: joachim@kih.no (joachim lous)\nSubject: Re: TIFF: philosophical significance of 42\nOrganization: Kongsberg Ingeniorhogskole\nLines: 30\nNNTP-Posting-Host: samson.kih.no\nX-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]\n\nulrich@galki.toppoint.de wrote:\n\n> According to the TIFF 5.0 Specification, the TIFF "version number"\n> (bytes 2-3) 42 has been chosen for its "deep philosophical \n> significance".\n\n> When I first read this, I rotfl. Finally some philosphy in a technical\n> spec. But still I wondered what makes 42 so significant.\n\n> Last week, I read the Hitchhikers Guide To The Galaxy, and rotfl the\n> second time. (After millions of years of calculation, the second-best\n> computer of all time reveals that 42 is the answer to the question\n> about life, the universe and everything)\n\n> Is this actually how they picked the number 42?\n\nYes.\n\n> Does anyone have any other suggestions where the 42 came from?\n\nI don\'t know where Douglas Adams took it from, but I\'m pretty sure he\'s\nthe one who launched it (in the Guide). Since then it\'s been showing up \nall over the place.\n\n _______________________________\n / _ L* / _ / . / _ /_ "One thing is for sure: The sheep\n / _) /()(/(/)//)) /_ ()(/_) / / Is NOT a creature of the earth."\n / \\_)~ (/ Joachim@kih.no / / \n/_______________________________/ / -The back-masking on \'Haaden II\'\n /_______________________________/ from \'Exposure\' by Robert Fripp.\n',
"From: Nanci Ann Miller <nm0w+@andrew.cmu.edu>\nSubject: Re: Bible Quiz\nOrganization: Sponsored account, School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA\nLines: 14\n\t<kmr4.1582.734882394@po.CWRU.edu>\nNNTP-Posting-Host: andrew.cmu.edu\nIn-Reply-To: <kmr4.1582.734882394@po.CWRU.edu>\n\nkmr4@po.CWRU.edu (Keith M. Ryan) writes:\n> Would you mind e-mailing me the questions, with the pairs of answers?\n> I would love to have them for the next time a Theist comes to my door!\n\nI'd like this too... maybe you should post an answer key after a while?\n\nNanci\n\n.........................................................................\nIf you know (and are SURE of) the author of this quote, please send me\nemail (nm0w+@andrew.cmu.edu):\nIt is better to be a coward for a minute than dead for the rest of your\nlife.\n\n",
'From: gifford@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Barbara Gifford)\nSubject: The Mystery in the Paradox\nReply-To: gifford@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Barbara Gifford)\nOrganization: Carderock Division, NSWC, Bethesda, MD\nLines: 9\n\nI have been looking for a book that specifically addresses\nthe mystery of God in the paradox. I have read some that touch\non the subject in a chapter but would like a more detailed read.\n\nIs anyone aware of any books that deal with this subject.\n\nPlease e-mail me. Thanks.\n\nBarbara\n',
'From: capelli@vnet.IBM.COM (Ron Capelli)\nSubject: Re: detecting double points in bezier curves\nDisclaimer: This posting represents the poster\'s views, not those of IBM\nNews-Software: UReply 3.1\nLines: 16\n\nIn <ia522B1w165w@oeinck.waterland.wlink.nl> Ferdinand Oeinck writes:\n>I\'m looking for any information on detecting and/or calculating a double\n>point and/or cusp in a bezier curve.\n\nSee:\n Maureen Stone and Tony DeRose,\n "A Geometric Characterization of Parametric Cubic Curves",\n ACM TOG, vol 8, no 3, July 1989, pp. 147-163.\n_______________________________________________________________________\n\n...Ron Capelli IBM Corp. Dept. C13, MS. P230\n capelli@vnet.ibm.com PO Box 950\n (914) 435-1673 Poughkeepsie, NY 12602\n_______________________________________________________________________\n\n"There are no answers, only cross references."\n',
'From: carl@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU (Carl J Lydick)\nSubject: Re: Krillean Photography\nOrganization: HST Wide Field/Planetary Camera\nLines: 24\nDistribution: world\nReply-To: carl@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU\nNNTP-Posting-Host: sol1.gps.caltech.edu\n\nIn article <1993Apr19.205615.1013@unlv.edu>, todamhyp@charles.unlv.edu (Brian M. Huey) writes:\n=I think that\'s the correct spelling..\n=\tI am looking for any information/supplies that will allow\n=do-it-yourselfers to take Krillean Pictures. I\'m thinking\n=that education suppliers for schools might have a appartus for\n=sale, but I don\'t know any of the companies. Any info is greatly\n=appreciated.\n=\tIn case you don\'t know, Krillean Photography, to the best of my\n=knowledge, involves taking pictures of an (most of the time) organic\n=object between charged plates. The picture will show energy patterns\n=or spikes around the object photographed, and depending on what type\n=of object it is, the spikes or energy patterns will vary. One might\n=extrapolate here and say that this proves that every object within\n=the universe (as we know it) has its own energy signature.\n\nGo to the library and look up "corona discharge."\n--------------------------------------------------------------------------------\nCarl J Lydick | INTERnet: CARL@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU | NSI/HEPnet: SOL1::CARL\n\nDisclaimer: Hey, I understand VAXen and VMS. That\'s what I get paid for. My\nunderstanding of astronomy is purely at the amateur level (or below). So\nunless what I\'m saying is directly related to VAX/VMS, don\'t hold me or my\norganization responsible for it. If it IS related to VAX/VMS, you can try to\nhold me responsible for it, but my organization had nothing to do with it.\n',
'From: weston@ucssun1.sdsu.edu (weston t)\nSubject: graphical representation of vector-valued functions\nOrganization: SDSU Computing Services\nLines: 13\nNNTP-Posting-Host: ucssun1.sdsu.edu\n\ngnuplot, etc. make it easy to plot real valued functions of 2 variables\nbut I want to plot functions whose values are 2-vectors. I have been \ndoing this by plotting arrays of arrows (complete with arrowheads) but\nbefore going further, I thought I would ask whether someone has already\ndone the work. Any pointers??\n\nthanx in advance\n\n\nTom Weston | USENET: weston@ucssun1.sdsu.edu\nDepartment of Philosophy | (619) 594-6218 (office)\nSan Diego State Univ. | (619) 575-7477 (home)\nSan Diego, CA 92182-0303 | \n',
'From: dkennett@fraser.sfu.ca (Daniel Kennett)\nSubject: [POV] Having trouble bump mapping a gif to a sphere\nSummary: Having trouble bump mapping a gif to a spher in POVray\nKeywords: bump map\nOrganization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada\nLines: 44\n\n\nHello,\n I\'ve been trying to bump map a gif onto a sphere for a while and I\ncan\'t seem to get it to work. Image mapping works, but not bump\nmapping. Here\'s a simple file I was working with, could some kind\nsoul tell me whats wrong with this.....\n\n#include "colors.inc"\n#include "shapes.inc"\n#include "textures.inc"\n \ncamera {\n location <0 1 -3>\n direction <0 0 1.5>\n up <0 1 0>\n right <1.33 0 0>\n look_at <0 1 2>\n}\n \nobject { light_source { <2 4 -3> color White }\n }\n \nobject {\n sphere { <0 1 2> 1 }\n texture {\n bump_map { 1 <0 1 2> gif "surf.gif"}\n }\n}\n\nNOTE: surf.gif is a plasma fractal from Fractint that is using the\nlandscape palette map.\n\n \n\tThanks in advance\n\t -Daniel-\n\n*======================================================================* \n| Daniel Kennett\t \t\t |\n| dkennett@sfu.ca \t\t \t\t\t |\n| "Our minds are finite, and yet even in those circumstances of |\n| finitude, we are surrounded by possibilities that are infinite, and |\n| the purpose of human life is to grasp as much as we can out of that |\n| infinitude." - Alfred North Whitehead | \n*======================================================================*\n',
"From: paj@uk.co.gec-mrc (Paul Johnson)\nSubject: Re: sore throat\nReply-To: paj@uk.co.gec-mrc (Paul Johnson)\nOrganization: GEC-Marconi Research Centre, Great Baddow, UK\nLines: 29\n\nIn article <47835@sdcc12.ucsd.edu> wsun@jeeves.ucsd.edu (Fiberman) writes:\n>I have had a sore throat for almost a week. When I look into\n>the mirror with the aid of a flash light, I see white plaques in\n>the very back of my throat (on the sides). I went to a health\n>center to have a throat culture taken. They said that I do not\n>have strep throat. Could a viral infection cause white plaques\n>on the sides of my throat?\n\nFirst, I am not a doctor. I know about this because I have been\nthrough it.\n\nIt sounds like tonsilitis (lit. swollen tonsils). Feel under your jaw\nhinge for a swelling on each side. If you find them, its tonsilitis.\nI've had this a couple of times in the past. The doctor prescribed a\nweeks course of penicillin and that cleared it up.\n\nIn my case it was associated with glandular fever, which is a viral\ninfection which (from my point of view) resembled flu and tonsilitis\nthat kept coming back for a year or so. There is a blood test for\nthis.\n\nIn conclusion, see a doctor (if you have not done so already).\n\nPaul.\n-- \nPaul Johnson (paj@gec-mrc.co.uk).\t | Tel: +44 245 73331 ext 3245\n--------------------------------------------+----------------------------------\nThese ideas and others like them can be had | GEC-Marconi Research is not\nfor $0.02 each from any reputable idealist. | responsible for my opinions\n",
"From: keith@cco.caltech.edu (Keith Allan Schneider)\nSubject: Re: <Political Atheists?\nOrganization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena\nLines: 20\nNNTP-Posting-Host: punisher.caltech.edu\n\nlivesey@solntze.wpd.sgi.com (Jon Livesey) writes:\n\n>Perhaps the chimps that failed to evolve cooperative behaviour\n>died out, and we are left with the ones that did evolve such\n>behaviour, entirely by chance.\n\nThat's the entire point!\n\n>Are you going to proclaim a natural morality every time an\n>organism evolves cooperative behaviour?\n\nYes!\n\nNatural morality is a morality that developed naturally.\n\n>What about the natural morality of bee dance?\n\nHuh?\n\nkeith\n",
'From: revdak@netcom.com (D. Andrew Kille)\nSubject: Re: Easter: what\'s in a name? (was Re: New Testament Double Stan\nOrganization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)\nLines: 40\n\nDaniel Segard (dsegard@nyx.cs.du.edu) wrote:\n\n[a lot of stuff deleted]\n\n: For that matter, stay Biblical and call it Omar Rasheet (The Feast of\n: First Fruits). Torah commands that this be observed on the day following\n: the Sabbath of Passover week. (Sunday by any other name in modern\n: parlance.) Why is there so much objection to observing the Resurrection\n: on the 1st day of the week on which it actually occured? Why jump it all\n: over the calendar the way Easter does? Why not just go with the Sunday\n: following Passover the way the Bible has it? Why seek after unbiblical\n: methods?\n: \nIn fact, that is the reason Easter "jumps all over the calendar"- Passsover\nitself is a lunar holiday, not a solar one, and thus falls over a wide\npossible span of times. The few times that Easter does not fall during or\nafter Passover are because Easter is further linked to the Vernal Equinox-\nthe beginning of spring.\n\n[more deletions]\n: \n: So what does this question have to do with Easter (the whore\n: goddess)? I am all for celebrating the Resurrection. Just keep that\n: whore out of the discussion.\n: \nYour obsession with the term "whore" clouds your argument. "Whore" is\na value judgement, not a descriptive term.\n\n[more deletions]\n\nOverall, this argument is an illustration of the "etymological fallacy"\n(see J.P. Louw: _Semantics of NT Greek_). That is the idea that the true\nmeaning of a word lies in its origins and linguistic form. In fact, our\nown experience demonstrates that the meaning of a word is bound up with\nhow it is _used_, not where it came from. Very few modern people would\nmake any connection whatsoever between "Easter" and "Ishtar." If Daniel\nSeagard does, then for him it has that meaning. But that is a highly\nidiosyncratic "meaning," and not one that needs much refutation.\n\nrevdak@netcom.com\n',
'From: clldomps@cs.ruu.nl (Louis van Dompselaar)\nSubject: Re: images of earth\nOrganization: Utrecht University, Dept. of Computer Science\nLines: 17\n\nIn <C5q0HK.KoD@hawnews.watson.ibm.com> ricky@watson.ibm.com (Rick Turner) writes:\n\n>Look in the /pub/SPACE directory on ames.arc.nasa.gov - there are a number\n>of earth images there. You may have to hunt around the subdirectories as\n>things tend to be filed under the mission (ie, "APOLLO") rather than under\t\n>the image subject.\t\n>\nFor those of you who don\'t need 24 bit, I got a 32 colour Amiga IFF\nof a cloudless Earth (scanned). Looks okay when mapped on a sphere.\nE-mail me and I\'ll send it you...\n\nLouis\n\n-- \nI\'m hanging on your words, Living on your breath, Feeling with your skin,\nWill I always be here? -- In Your Room [ DM ]\n\n',
'From: weaver@chdasic.sps.mot.com (Dave Weaver)\nSubject: Help\nLines: 44\n\nIn a prior article, lmvec@westminster.ac.uk (William Hargreaves) writes:\n>\n> Now I am of the opinion that you a saved through faith alone (not what you do)\n> as taught in Romans, but how can I square up in my mind the teachings of James\n> in conjunction with the lukewarm Christian being \'spat-out\'\n\nIf you agree that good works have a role somewhere, you will \ngenerally find yourself in one of two camps: \n\n (1) Faith + Works --> Salvation\nor (2) Faith --> Salvation + Works\n\nEither (1) works are required for salvation, or (2) faith will \ninevitably result in good works. \n\nI am also of the opinion that salvation is by faith alone, based on\nEphesians 2 and Romans 3:21-31. I also conclude that James 2, when \nread in context, is teaching bullet (2) above. When James speaks of \njustification, I would claim that he is not speaking of God declaring\nthe believing sinner innocent in His sight (Paul\'s use of the word). \nInstead he is speaking of the sinner\'s profession of faith being \n"justified" or "proven" by the display of good works. Also according \nto James 2, the abscence of such works is evidence for a "dead" or \n"useless" faith which fails to save.\n\nJames 2 is not a problem for the doctrine of salvation by faith if it\nis teaching (2). Works would have their place, not as merit toward \nsalvation, but as evidence of true faith. \n\nRegards,\n\n---\nDave Weaver | "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to\nweaver@chdasic.sps.mot.com| gain what he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot (1949)\n\n[There are of course a number of other possibilities. The Reformers\nbelieved\n\n salvation --> faith --> works\n\nSome of us suspect that the three things are tied up together in such a way\nthat no diagram of this form can do it justice.\n\n--clh]\n',
"From: Daniel.Prince@f129.n102.z1.calcom.socal.com (Daniel Prince)\nSubject: Re: Can men get yeast infections?\nLines: 13\n\n To: smithmc@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Lost Boy)\n\n LB> I know from personal experience that men CAN get yeast infections. I \n LB> get rather nasty ones from time to time, mostly in the area of the\n LB> scrotum and the base of the penis. \n\nI used to have problems with recurrent athlete's foot until I \nstarted drying between my toes with my blow drier after each time \nI bathe. I also dry my pubic area while I am at it to prevent \nproblems. You might want to try it.\n\n... My cat types with his tail.\n * Origin: ONE WORLD Los Angeles 310/372-0987 32b (1:102/129.0)\n",
"From: sandvik@newton.apple.com (Kent Sandvik)\nSubject: Re: Slavery (was Re: Why is sex only allowed in marriage: ...)\nOrganization: Cookamunga Tourist Bureau\nLines: 16\n\nIn article <1993Apr14.132813.16343@monu6.cc.monash.edu.au>,\ndarice@yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au (Fred Rice) wrote:\n> Anyhow, on the basis of the apparent success of Islamic banks, it seems\n> to me that the statement that a zero-interest economy cannot survive in\n> today's world may be a bit premature.\n\nI'm sure zero-intested economical systems survive on a small-scale,\nco-ops is not an Islamic invention, and we have co-operatives working\nall around the world. However such systems don't stand the corruption\nof a large scale operation. Actually, nothing could handle human\ngreed, IMHO. Not even Allah :-).\n\nCheers,\nKent\n---\nsandvik@newton.apple.com. ALink: KSAND -- Private activities on the net.\n",
"From: Eugene.Bigelow@ebay.sun.com (Geno )\nSubject: Re: Christianity and repeated lives\nReply-To: Eugene.Bigelow@ebay.sun.com\nOrganization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.\nLines: 13\n\n\n > ...there is nothing in Christianity that precludes the idea of\n > repeated lives on earth.\n\nThere is a paragraph in the New Testament which in my opinion, clearly makes\na positive inference to reincarnation. I don't remember which one it is off of\nthe top of my head, but it basically goes like this: Jesus is talking with the\napostles and they ask him why the pharisees say that before the messiah can come,\nElijah must first come. Jesus replies that Elijah has come, but they did not \nrecognize him. It then says that the apostles perceived that he was refering to\nJohn the Baptist. This seems to me to clearly imply reincarnation. Can anyone\noffer a reasonable alternative interpretation? I would be very interested to \nhear it.\n",
'From: kcochran@nyx.cs.du.edu (Keith "Justified And Ancient" Cochran)\nSubject: Re: <Political Atheists?\nX-Disclaimer: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University\n\tof Denver for the Denver community. The University has neither\n\tcontrol over nor responsibility for the opinions of users.\nOrganization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept.\nLines: 66\n\nIn article <1ql06qINN2kf@gap.caltech.edu> keith@cco.caltech.edu (Keith Allan Schneider) writes:\n>kcochran@nyx.cs.du.edu (Keith "Justified And Ancient" Cochran) writes:\n>>Schneider\n>>>Natural morality may specifically be thought of as a code of ethics that\n>>>a certain species has developed in order to survive.\n>>Wait. Are we talking about ethics or morals here?\n>\n>Is the distinction important?\n\nYes.\n\n>>>We see this countless\n>>>times in the animal kingdom, and such a "natural" system is the basis for\n>>>our own system as well.\n>>Huh?\n>\n>Well, our moral system seems to mimic the natural one, in a number of ways.\n\nPlease describe these "number of ways" in detail. Then explain the any\ncontradictions that may arise.\n\n>>>In order for humans to thrive, we seem to need\n>>>to live in groups,\n>>Here\'s your problem. "we *SEEM* to need". What\'s wrong with the highlighted\n>>word?\n>\n>I don\'t know. What is wrong? Is it possible for humans to survive for\n>a long time in the wild? Yes, it\'s possible, but it is difficult. Humans\n>are a social animal, and that is a cause of our success.\n\nDefine "difficult".\n\n>>>and in order for a group to function effectively, it\n>>>needs some sort of ethical code.\n>>This statement is not correct.\n>\n>Isn\'t it? Why don\'t you think so?\n\nExplain the laws in America stating that you have to drive on the right-\nhand side of the road.\n\n>>>And, by pointing out that a species\' conduct serves to propogate itself,\n>>>I am not trying to give you your tautology, but I am trying to show that\n>>>such are examples of moral systems with a goal. Propogation of the species\n>>>is a goal of a natural system of morality.\n>>So anybody who lives in a monagamous relationship is not moral? After all,\n>>in order to ensure propogation of the species, every man should impregnate\n>>as many women as possible.\n>\n>No. As noted earlier, lack of mating (such as abstinence or homosexuality)\n>isn\'t really destructive to the system. It is a worst neutral.\n\nSo if every member of the species was homosexual, this wouldn\'t be destructive\nto the survival of the species?\n\n>>For that matter, in herds of horses, only the dominate stallion mates. When\n>>he dies/is killed/whatever, the new dominate stallion is the only one who\n>>mates. These seems to be a case of your "natural system of morality" trying\n>>to shoot itself in the figurative foot.\n>\n>Again, the mating practices are something to be reexamined...\n\nThe whole "theory" needs to be reexamined...\n--\n=kcochran@nyx.cs.du.edu | B(0-4) c- d- e++ f- g++ k(+) m r(-) s++(+) t | TSAKC=\n=My thoughts, my posts, my ideas, my responsibility, my beer, my pizza. OK???=\n',
'From: brr1@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (BRANT RICHARD RITTER)\nSubject: computer graphics to vcr?\nOrganization: Lehigh University\nLines: 15\n\n\n HELP MY FRIEND AND I HAVE A CLASS PROJECT IN WHICH WE ARE TRYING TO MAKE\n A COMPUTER ANIMATED MOVIE OF SORTS WITH THE DISNEY ANIMATION AND WOULD\n LIKE TO PUT WHAT WE HAVE ON A VCR IS THIS POSSIBLE? IS IT EASY AND\n RELATIVELY CHEAP? IF SO HOW? WE BOTH HAVE 386 IBM COMPATIBLES BUT ARE\n RELATIVELY CLUELESS WITH COMPUTERS IF YOU COULD HELP PLEASE DO.\n\n THANX.\n-- \nBRANT RITTER\n-----------------------------------------------------\nmoshing-- "a cosmic cesspool of physical delight."\n -A. Kiedas\n RHCP\n-----------------------------------------------------\n',
'From: sts@mfltd.co.uk (Steve Sherwood (x5543))\nSubject: Re: Virtual Reality for X on the CHEAP!\nReply-To: sts@mfltd.co.uk\nOrganization: Micro Focus Ltd, Newbury, England\nLines: 39\n\nIn article <1r6v3a$rj2@fg1.plk.af.mil>, ridout@bink.plk.af.mil (Brian S. Ridout) writes:\n|> In article <1993Apr15.134802.21995@mfltd.co.uk>, sts@mfltd.co.uk (Steve Sherwood (x5543)) writes:\n|> |> Has anyone got multiverse to work ?\n|> |> \n|> |> I have built it on 486 svr4, mips svr4s and Sun SparcStation.\n|> |> \n|> |> There seems to be many bugs in it. The \'dogfight\' and \'dactyl\' simply do nothing\n|> |> (After fixing a bug where a variable is defined twice in two different modules - One needed\n|> |> setting to static - else the client core-dumped)\n|> |> \n|> |> Steve\n|> |> -- \n|> |> \n|> |> Extn 5543, sts@mfltd.co.uk, !uunet!mfocus!sts\n|> |> +-----------------------------------+------------------------+ Micro Focus\n|> |> | Just like Pariah, I have no name, | rm -rf * | 26 West Street\n|> |> | Living in a blaze of obscurity, | "rum ruff splat" | Newbury\n|> |> | Need courage to survive the day. | | Berkshire\n|> |> +-----------------------------------+------------------------+ England\n|> |> (A)bort (R)etry (I)nfluence with large hammer\n|> I built it on a rs6000 (my only Motif machine) works fine. I added some objects\n|> into dogfight so I could get used to flying. This was very easy. \n|> All in all Cool!. \n|> Brian\n\nThe RS6000 compiler is so forgiving, I think that if you mixed COBOL & pascal\nthe C compiler still wouldn\'t complain. :-)\n\nSteve\n-- \n\n Extn 5543, sts@mfltd.co.uk, !uunet!mfocus!sts\n+-----------------------------------+------------------------+ Micro Focus\n| Just like Pariah, I have no name, | rm -rf * | 26 West Street\n| Living in a blaze of obscurity, | "rum ruff splat" | Newbury\n| Need courage to survive the day. | | Berkshire\n+-----------------------------------+------------------------+ England\n (A)bort (R)etry (I)nfluence with large hammer\n\n',
'From: dmp1@ukc.ac.uk (D.M.Procida)\nSubject: Re: Homeopathy: a respectable medical tradition?\nReply-To: dmp1@ukc.ac.uk (D.M.Procida)\nOrganization: Computing Lab, University of Kent at Canterbury, UK.\nLines: 26\nNntp-Posting-Host: eagle.ukc.ac.uk\n\nIn article <19609@pitt.UUCP> geb@cs.pitt.edu (Gordon Banks) writes:\n\n>Accepted by whom? Not by scientists. There are people\n>in every country who waste time and money on quackery.\n>In Britain and Scandanavia, where I have worked, it was not paid for.\n>What are "most of these countries?" I don\'t believe you.\n\nI am told (by the person who I care a lot about and who I am worried\nis going to start putting his health and money into homeopathy without\nreally knowing what he is getting into and who is the reason I posted\nin the first place about homeopathy) that in Britain homeopathy is\navailable on the National Health Service and that there are about 6000\nGPs who use homeopathic practices. True? False? What?\n\nHave there been any important and documented investigations into\nhomeopathic principles?\n\nI was reading a book on homeopathy over the weekend. I turned to the\nsection on the principles behind homeopathic medicine, and two\nparagraphs informed me that homeopaths don\'t feel obliged to provide\nany sort of explanation. The author stated this with pride, as though\nit were some sort of virtue! Why am I sceptical about homeopathy? Is\nit because I am a narrow-minded bigot, or is it because homeopathy\nreally looks more like witch-doctory than anything else?\n\nDaniele.\n',
"From: ednclark@kraken.itc.gu.edu.au (Jeffrey Clark)\nSubject: Re: some thoughts.\nKeywords: Dan Bissell\nNntp-Posting-Host: kraken.itc.gu.edu.au\nOrganization: ITC, Griffith University, Brisbane, Australia\nLines: 70\n\nbissda@saturn.wwc.edu (DAN LAWRENCE BISSELL) writes:\n\n>\tThe book says that Jesus was either a liar, or he was crazy ( a \n>modern day Koresh) or he was actually who he said he was.\n\nOr he was just convinced by religious fantasies of the time that he was the\nMessiah, or he was just some rebel leader that an organisation of Jews built\ninto Godhood for the purpose off throwing of the yoke of Roman oppression,\nor.......\n\n>\tSome reasons why he wouldn't be a liar are as follows. Who would \n>die for a lie? \n\nAre the Moslem fanatics who strap bombs to their backs and driving into\nJewish embassies dying for the truth (hint: they think they are)? Were the\nNAZI soldiers in WWII dying for the truth? \n\nPeople die for lies all the time.\n\n\n>Wouldn't people be able to tell if he was a liar? People \n\nWas Hitler a liar? How about Napoleon, Mussolini, Ronald Reagan? We spend\nmillions of dollars a year trying to find techniques to detect lying? So the\nanswer is no, they wouldn't be able to tell if he was a liar if he only lied\nabout some things.\n\n>gathered around him and kept doing it, many gathered from hearing or seeing \n>someone who was or had been healed. Call me a fool, but I believe he did \n>heal people. \n\nWhy do you think he healed people, because the Bible says so? But if God\ndoesn't exist (the other possibility) then the Bible is not divinely\ninspired and one can't use it as a piece of evidence, as it was written by\nunbiased observers.\n\n>\tNiether was he a lunatic. Would more than an entire nation be drawn \n>to someone who was crazy. Very doubtful, in fact rediculous. For example \n\nWere Hitler or Mussolini lunatics? How about Genghis Khan, Jim Jones...\nthere are thousands of examples through history of people being drawn to\nlunatics.\n\n>anyone who is drawn to David Koresh is obviously a fool, logical people see \n>this right away.\n>\tTherefore since he wasn't a liar or a lunatic, he must have been the \n>real thing. \n\nSo we obviously cannot rule out liar or lunatic not to mention all the other\npossibilities not given in this triad.\n\n>\tSome other things to note. He fulfilled loads of prophecies in \n>the psalms, Isaiah and elsewhere in 24 hrs alone. This in his betrayal \n\nPossibly self-fulfilling prophecy (ie he was aware what he should do in\norder to fulfil these prophecies), possibly selective diting on behalf of\nthose keepers of the holy bible for a thousand years or so before the\ngeneral; public had access. possibly also that the text is written in such\nriddles (like Nostradamus) that anything that happens can be twisted to fit\nthe words of raving fictional 'prophecy'.\n\n>and Crucifixion. I don't have my Bible with me at this moment, next time I \n>write I will use it.\n [stuff about how hard it is to be a christian deleted]\n\nI severely recommend you reconsider the reasons you are a christian, they\nare very unconvincing to an unbiased observer.\n\nJeff.\n\n",
"From: wdm@world.std.com (Wayne Michael)\nSubject: Re: XV under MS-DOS ?!?\nOrganization: n/a\nLines: 12\n\nNO E-MAIL ADDRESS@eicn.etna.ch writes:\n\n>Hi ... Recently I found XV for MS-DOS in a subdirectory of GNU-CC (GNUISH). I \n\nplease tell me where you where you FTP'd this from? I would like to have\na copy of it. (I would have mailed you, but your post indicates you have no mail\naddress...)\n\n> \n-- \nWayne Michael\nwdm@world.std.com\n",
'From: annick@cortex.physiol.su.oz.au (Annick Ansselin)\nSubject: Re: Is MSG sensitivity superstition?\nNntp-Posting-Host: cortex.physiol.su.oz.au\nOrganization: Department of Physiology, University of Sydney, NSW, Australia\nLines: 29\n\nIn <C5nFDG.8En@sdf.lonestar.org> marco@sdf.lonestar.org (Steve Giammarco) writes:\n\n>>\n>>And to add further fuel to the flame war, I read about 20 years ago that\n>>the "natural" MSG - extracted from the sources you mention above - does not\n>>cause the reported aftereffects; it\'s only that nasty "artificial" MSG -\n>>extracted from coal tar or whatever - that causes Chinese Restaurant\n>>Syndrome. I find this pretty hard to believe; has anyone else heard it?\n\nMSG is mono sodium glutamate, a fairly straight forward compound. If it is\npure, the source should not be a problem. Your comment suggests that \nimpurities may be the cause.\nMy experience of MSG effects (as part of a double blind study) was that the\npure stuff caused me some rather severe effects.\n\n>I was under the (possibly incorrect) assumption that most of the MSG on\n>our foods was made from processing sugar beets. Is this not true? Are \n>there other sources of MSG?\n\nSoya bean, fermented cheeses, mushrooms all contain MSG. \n\n>I am one of those folx who react, sometimes strongly, to MSG. However,\n>I also react strongly to sodium chloride (table salt) in excess. Each\n>causes different symptoms except for the common one of rapid heartbeat\n>and an uncomfortable feeling of pressure in my chest, upper left quadrant.\n\nThe symptoms I had were numbness of jaw muscles in the first instance\nfollowed by the arms then the legs, headache, lethargy and unable to keep\nawake. I think it may well affect people differently.\n',
'From: kelley@vet.vet.purdue.edu (Stephen Kelley)\nSubject: Re: Should I be angry at this doctor?\nOrganization: Purdue University SVM\nDistribution: na\nLines: 32\n\nIn article <1993Apr21.155714.1@stsci.edu> mryan@stsci.edu writes:\n- Am I justified in being pissed off at this doctor?\n- \n- Last Saturday evening my 6 year old son cut his finger badly with a knife.\n- I took him to a local "Urgent and General Care" clinic at 5:50 pm. The \n\n\t[story deleted]\n\n- be bothered. My son did get three stitches at the emergency room. I\'m still \n- trying to find out who is in charge of that clinic so I can write them a \n- letter. We will certainly never set foot in that clinic again.\n- \n\nThe people in charge already know what kind of \'care\' they are \nproviding, and they don\'t give a rat\'s ass about your repeat business.\n\nYou are much more likely to do some good writing to local newspapers,\nand broadcast news shows. If you do, keep the letter short and to the point\nso they don\'t discard it out of hand, and emphasize exactly what you\nare upset about.\n\nIt\'s possible that the local health department can help you complain to \nsomeone official, but really, that \'clinic\' exists for the sole purpose \nof generating walk-in income through advertising, and *nothing* you can do \nwill change them -- all you can hope for is to help someone else avoid them.\n\nI\'m glad it sounds like your son did ok, anyway.\n\nMy opinion only, of course,\nSteve\n\n\n',
"From: jason@ab20.larc.nasa.gov (Jason Austin)\nSubject: Re: Barbecued foods and health risk\nOrganization: NASA Langley Research Center, Hampton, VA\nLines: 28\nReply-To: Jason C. Austin <j.c.austin@larc.nasa.gov>\nNNTP-Posting-Host: ab20.larc.nasa.gov\nIn-reply-to: rsilver@world.std.com's message of Sat, 17 Apr 1993 15:02:18 GMT\n\nIn article <C5Mv3v.2o5@world.std.com> rsilver@world.std.com (Richard Silver) writes:\n-> \n-> Some recent postings remind me that I had read about risks \n-> associated with the barbecuing of foods, namely that carcinogens \n-> are generated. Is this a valid concern? If so, is it a function \n-> of the smoke or the elevated temperatures? Is it a function of \n-> the cooking elements, wood or charcoal vs. lava rocks? I wish \n-> to know more. Thanks. \n\n\tI've read mixed opinions on this. Singed meat can contain\ncarcinogens, but unless you eat barbecued meat every meal, you're\nprobably not at much risk. I think I will live life on the edge and\ngrill my food.\n\n\tI've also read that using petroleum based charcoal starter can\nput some unwanted toxins in your food, or at least unwanted odor.\nI've been using egg carton cups dipped in paraffin for fire starters,\nand it actually lights faster and easier than lighter fluid. Several\npeople have told me that they have excellent results with a chimney,\nbasically a steel cylinder with wholes punched in the side. I've been\nmeaning to get one of these, but one hasn't presented itself while\nI've been out shopping. You can make one from a coffee can, but I buy\nmy coffee as whole beans in a bag, so I haven't had a big enough can\nlaying around.\n--\nJason C. Austin\nj.c.austin@larc.nasa.gov\n\n",
"From: sbishop@desire.wright.edu\nSubject: Re: Hismanal, et. al.--side effects\nOrganization: Wright State University \nLines: 22\n\nIn article <1993Apr21.024103.29880@spdcc.com>, dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer) writes:\n> In article <1993Apr20.212706.820@lrc.edu> kjiv@lrc.edu writes:\n>>Can someone tell me whether or not any of the following medications \n>>has been linked to rapid/excessive weight gain and/or a distorted \n>>sense of taste or smell: Hismanal; Azmacort (a topical steroid to \n>>prevent asthma); Vancenase.\n> \n> Hismanal (astemizole) is most definitely linked to weight gain.\n> It really is peculiar that some antihistamines have this effect,\n> and even more so an antihistamine like astemizole which purportedly\n> doesn't cross the blood-brain barrier and so tends not to cause\n> drowsiness.\n\nIt also gave me lots of problems with joint and muscle pain. Seemed to\ntrigger arthritis-like problems.\n\nSue\n\n> \n> -- \n> Steve Dyer\n> dyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer\n",
"From: schmidt@PrakInf.TH-Ilmenau.DE (Schmidt)\nSubject: irit to pov ?\nKeywords: raytracer, format conversion\nReply-To: schmidt@PrakInf.TH-Ilmenau.DE (Schmidt)\nOrganization: Technische Hochschule Ilmenau\nLines: 8\nNntp-Posting-Host: merkur.prakinf.tu-ilmenau.de\n\nHas anybody made a converter from irit's .irt or .dat format to\n .pov format ?\n\nThanks!\n\n-- \nSebastian Schmidt\t\t\t\nTU Ilmenau Institut f. praktische Informatik \n",
'From: sts@mfltd.co.uk (Steve Sherwood (x5543))\nSubject: Re: Virtual Reality for X on the CHEAP!\nReply-To: sts@mfltd.co.uk\nOrganization: Micro Focus Ltd, Newbury, England\nLines: 19\n\nHas anyone got multiverse to work ?\n\nI have built it on 486 svr4, mips svr4s and Sun SparcStation.\n\nThere seems to be many bugs in it. The \'dogfight\' and \'dactyl\' simply do nothing\n(After fixing a bug where a variable is defined twice in two different modules - One needed\nsetting to static - else the client core-dumped)\n\nSteve\n-- \n\n Extn 5543, sts@mfltd.co.uk, !uunet!mfocus!sts\n+-----------------------------------+------------------------+ Micro Focus\n| Just like Pariah, I have no name, | rm -rf * | 26 West Street\n| Living in a blaze of obscurity, | "rum ruff splat" | Newbury\n| Need courage to survive the day. | | Berkshire\n+-----------------------------------+------------------------+ England\n (A)bort (R)etry (I)nfluence with large hammer\n\n',
'From: jaeger@buphy.bu.edu (Gregg Jaeger)\nSubject: Re: The Inimitable Rushdie\nOrganization: Boston University Physics Department\nLines: 31\n\nIn article <2BCC892B.21864@ics.uci.edu> bvickers@ics.uci.edu (Brett J. Vickers) writes:\n\n>In article <115290@bu.edu> jaeger@buphy.bu.edu (Gregg Jaeger) writes:\n\n>>Well, seeing as you are not muslim the sort of fatwa issued by Khomeini\n>>would not be relevant to you. I can understand your fear of persecution\n>>and I share it even more than you (being muslim), however Rushdie\'s\n>>behavior was not completely excusable.\n\n>Why should a fatwa issued by Khomeini be relevant to anyone who\n>doesn\'t live in Iran?\n\nIssued by Khomeini it shouldn\'t be relevant to anyone. But issued\nby an honest and learned scholar of Islam it would be relevant to\nany muslim as it would be contrary to Islamic law which all muslims\nare required to respect.\n\n> Who is it that decides whether Rushdie\'s behavior is excusable? \n\nAnyone sufficiently well versed in Islamic law and capable of reasoning,\nif you are talking about a weak sense of "excuse." It depends on what \nsense of "excuse" you have in mind.\n\n\n> And who cares if you think it is inexcusable?\n\nOnly someone who thinks my opinion is important, obviously.\nObviously you don\'t care, nor do I care that you don\'t care.\n\n\nGregg\n',
"From: nyeda@cnsvax.uwec.edu (David Nye)\nSubject: Re: seizures ( infantile spasms )\nOrganization: University of Wisconsin Eau Claire\nLines: 19\n\n[reply to dufault@lftfld.enet.dec.com (MD)]\n \n>After many metabolic tests, body structure tests, and infection/virus\n>tests the doctors still do not know quite what type of siezures he is\n>having (although they do have alot of evidence that it is now pointing\n>to infantile spasms ). This is where we stand right now....As I know\n>now, these particular types of disorders are still not really well\n>understood by the medical community.\n \nInfantile spasms have been well understood for quite some time now. You\nare seeing a pediatric neurologist, aren't you? If not, I strongly\nrecommend it. There is a new anticonvulsant about to be released called\nfelbamate which may be particularly helpful for infantile spasms. As\nfor learning more about seizures, ask your doctor or his nurse about a\nlocal support group.\n \nDavid Nye (nyeda@cnsvax.uwec.edu). Midelfort Clinic, Eau Claire WI\nThis is patently absurd; but whoever wishes to become a philosopher\nmust learn not to be frightened by absurdities. -- Bertrand Russell\n",
'From: wbdst+@pitt.edu (William B Dwinnell)\nSubject: VESA as a graphics standard\nOrganization: University of Pittsburgh\nLines: 7\n\n\nIn the U\x08IBM PC world, how much of a "standard" has VESA become for\nSVGA graphics? I know there are lots of graphics-board companies out \nthere, as well as several graphics chips manufacturers- are they adhering to\nthe VESA standard, and what effect is/will the VESA Local Bus have on all\nof this?\nAnyone?\n',
"Subject: Need Help in Steroid Research\nFrom: tthomps@eis.calstate.edu (Thomas Thompson)\nOrganization: Calif State Univ/Electronic Information Services\nLines: 8\n\n I am doing a term paper on steroids, actually the scientist who\nhelped crate the drug. I discovered that Joseph Fruton is one of the\nresearchers who helped create anabolic steroids. The only information on \nthis person I know is he was a biochemist that did research in the 1930's.\nI already did research at my local libraries, but I still need more\ninformation. My instructor is requiring resources from the computer\nnetworks. Please write back concerning my subject, any books, articles,\netc., will be appreciated. \n",
'Subject: Vonnegut/atheism\nFrom: dmn@kepler.unh.edu (...until kings become philosophers or philosophers become kings)\nOrganization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway\nNNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu\nLines: 21\n\n\n\n Yesterday, I got the chance to hear Kurt Vonnegut speak at the\nUniversity of New Hampshire. Vonnegut succeeded Isaac Asimov as the \n(honorary?) head of the American Humanist Association. (Vonnegut is\nan atheist, and so was Asimov) Before Asimov\'s funeral, Vonnegut stood up\nand said about Asimov, "He\'s in heaven now," which ignited uproarious \nlaughter in the room. (from the people he was speaking to around the time\nof the funeral)\n\n\t "It\'s the funniest thing I could have possibly said\nto a room full of humanists," Vonnegut said at yesterday\'s lecture. \n\n If Vonnegut comes to speak at your university, I highly recommend\ngoing to see him even if you\'ve never read any of his novels. In my opinion,\nhe\'s the greatest living humorist. (greatest living humanist humorist as well)\n\n\n Peace,\n\n Dana\n',
"From: tp892275@vine.canberra.edu.au (C. Mierzanowski)\nSubject: Which Video Card? (Please HELP)\nOrganization: Info Sci & Eng, University of Canberra, AUSTRALIA\nLines: 13\n\n\nI've got a 386 20Hz computer which is under warranty and my Trident\n8900C video card is starting to play-up (surprise, surprise). Therefore\nI'm going to try to exchange it for a better card.\n\nThe BIG Question is:\n\nWhich video card is high quality and with an\nacceptable price tag (on student budget) ???\n\n\tThank you in advance.\n\n\n",
'From: bolson@carson.u.washington.edu (Edward Bolson)\nSubject: Sphere from 4 points?\nOrganization: University of Washington, Seattle\nLines: 18\nDistribution: world\nNNTP-Posting-Host: carson.u.washington.edu\n\nBoy, this will be embarassing if it is trivial or an FAQ:\n\nGiven 4 points (non coplanar), how does one find the sphere, that is,\ncenter and radius, exactly fitting those points? I know how to do it\nfor a circle (from 3 points), but do not immediately see a \nstraightforward way to do it in 3-D. I have checked some\ngeometry books, Graphics Gems, and Farin, but am still at a loss?\nPlease have mercy on me and provide the solution? \n\nThanks,\nEd\n\n\n-- \nEd Bolson\nUniversity of Washington Cardiovascular Research (206)543-4535\nbolson@u.washington.edu (preferred)\nbolson@max.bitnet bolson@milton.u.washington.edu (if you must)\n',
'From: jodfishe@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (joseph dale fisher)\nSubject: Re: Sin\nOrganization: Indiana University\nLines: 22\n\nSorry for taking this off of Sharon\'s resp, but I\'d also like to add\nsome more verses to that and perhaps answer the second Q.\n\nVerses:\n 1 Corinthians 6:9-10\n Colossians 3:5-10\n\nAs for knowing when, that\'s a bit tricky. People normally have\nconsciences which warn them about it. However, as in my case, a\nconscience can be hardened by sin\'s deceitfulness (Hebrews 3:12:13) so\nthat the person has no idea (or doesn\'t care about it) that they are\nsinning. Of course, there are those sins which we do when we don\'t know\nthat they\'re sinful to begin with. Those take searching and examining\nof Scripture to find out that they are sinful and then repent and\nchange. The best question to ask in every circumstance to judge sinful\npossibilities is: "Would Jesus wholeheartedly do this at this point in\ntime?" I know, it sounds like a cop-out, but it truly is a stifling\nquestion.\n\nJoe Fisher\n\nOh, I missed one. 1 John 1:8-2:11,15-23.\n',
'From: wijkstra@fwi.uva.nl (Marcel Wijkstra (AIO))\nSubject: Re: BW hardcopy of colored window?\nKeywords: color hardcopy print\nNntp-Posting-Host: ic.fwi.uva.nl\nOrganization: FWI, University of Amsterdam\nLines: 38\n\nmars@ixos.de (Martin Stein) writes:\n\n#I use xwd/xpr (from the X11R5 dist.) and various programs of the\n#ppm-tools to print hardcopies of colored X windows. My problem is,\n\nI don\'t like xpr. It gives (at least, the X11R4 version does) louzy\noutput: the hardcopy looks very grainy to me.\nInstead, I use pnmtops. This takes full advantage PostScript, and\nlets the printer do the dirty job of dithering a (graylevel)\nimage to black and white dots.\n\nSo: if you have a PostScript printer, try:\n\txwdtopnm <xwdfile> |\t# convert to PPM\n\t[ppmtopgm |]\t\t# .. to graylevel for smaller file to print\n\tpnmtops -noturn |\t# .. to PostScript\n\tlpr\t\t\t# print\n\npnmtops Has several neat options, but use them with care:\nIf you want your image to be 4" wide, use:\n\tpnmtops -noturn -scale 100 -width 4\n-noturn Prevents the image from being rotated (if it is wider than it\n\tis high)\n-width 4 Specifies the PAPER width (not the image width - see below)\n-scale 100 Is used because if the image is small, it may fit within a\n\twidth less than 4", and will thus be printed smaller than 4" wide.\n\tIf you first scale it up a lot, it will certainly not fit in 4", and\n\twill be scaled down by pnmtops automatically to fit the specified\n\tpaper width. \n\tIn short: pnmtops will scale an image down to fit the paper size,\n\tbut it will not blow it up automatically.\n\nHope this helps.\nMarcel.\n-- \n X\t Marcel Wijkstra AIO (wijkstra@fwi.uva.nl)\n|X|\t Faculty of Mathematics and Computer Science\t\n X\t University of Amsterdam The Netherlands\n======Life stinks. Fortunately, I\'ve got a cold.========\n',
'From: keith@cco.caltech.edu (Keith Allan Schneider)\nSubject: Re: <<Pompous ass\nOrganization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena\nLines: 16\nNNTP-Posting-Host: punisher.caltech.edu\n\nlivesey@solntze.wpd.sgi.com (Jon Livesey) writes:\n\n[...]\n>>The "`little\' things" above were in reference to Germany, clearly. People\n>>said that there were similar things in Germany, but no one could name any.\n>That\'s not true. I gave you two examples. One was the rather\n>pevasive anti-semitism in German Christianity well before Hitler\n>arrived. The other was the system of social ranks that were used\n>in Imperail Germany and Austria to distinguish Jews from the rest \n>of the population.\n\nThese don\'t seem like "little things" to me. At least, they are orders\nworse than the motto. Do you think that the motto is a "little thing"\nthat will lead to worse things?\n\nkeith\n',
"From: orourke@sophia.smith.edu (Joseph O'Rourke)\nSubject: Re: Fast polygon routine needed\nKeywords: polygon, needed\nOrganization: Smith College, Northampton, MA, US\nLines: 5\n\nIn article <C5n3x0.B5L@news.cso.uiuc.edu> osprey@ux4.cso.uiuc.edu (Lucas Adamski) writes:\n>This may be a fairly routine request on here, but I'm looking for a fast\n>polygon routine to be used in a 3D game.\n\n\tA fast polygon routine to do WHAT?\n",
'From: dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer)\nSubject: Re: Good Grief! (was Re: Candida Albicans: what is it?)\nOrganization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA\n\nIn article <noringC5snsx.KMo@netcom.com> noring@netcom.com (Jon Noring) writes:\n>>There is no convincing evidence that such a disease exists.\n>There\'s a lot of evidence, it just hasn\'t been adequately gathered and\n>published in a way that will convince the die-hard melancholic skeptics\n>who quiver everytime the word \'anecdote\' or \'empirical\' is used.\n\nSnort. Ah, there go my sinuses again.\n\n>For example, Dr. Ivker, who wrote the book "Sinus Survival", always gives,\n\nOh, wow. A classic textbook. Hey, they laughed at Einstein, too!\n\n>before any other treatment, a systemic anti-fungal (such as Nizoral) to his\n>new patients IF they\'ve been on braod-spectrum anti-biotics 4 or more times\n>in the last two years. He\'s kept a record of the results, and for over \n>2000 patients found that over 90% of his patients get significant relief\n>of allergic/sinus symptoms. Of course, this is only the beginning for his\n>program.\n\nYeah, I\'ll bet. Tomorrow, the world.\n\nListen, uncontrolled studies like this are worthless.\n\n>In my case, as I reported a few weeks ago, I was developing the classic\n>symptoms outlined in \'The Yeast Connection\' (I agree it is a poorly \n>written book): e.g., extreme sensitivity to plastics, vapors, etc. which\n>I never had before (started in November). Within one week of full dosage\n>of Sporanox, the sensitivity to chemicals has fully disappeared - I can\n>now sit on my couch at home without dying after two minutes. I\'m also\n>*greatly* improved in other areas as well.\n\nI\'m sure you are. You sound like the typical hysteric/hypochondriac who\nresponds to "miracle cures."\n\n>Of course, I have allergy symptoms, etc. I am especially allergic to\n>molds, yeasts, etc. It doesn\'t take a rocket scientist to figure out that\n>if one has excessive colonization of yeast in the body, and you have a\n>natural allergy to yeasts, that a threshold would be reached where you\n>would have perceptible symptoms.\n\nYeah, "it makes sense to me", so of course it should be taken seriously.\nSnort.\n\n>Also, yeast do produce toxins of various\n>sorts, and again, you don\'t have to be a rocket scientist to realize that\n>such toxins can cause problems in some people.\n\nYeah, "it sounds reasonable to me".\n\n>Of course, the $60,000\n>question is whether a person who is immune compromised (as tests showed I was\n>from over 5 years of antibiotics, nutritionally-deficiencies because of the\n>stress of infections and allergies, etc.),\n\nOh, really? _What_ tests? Immune-compromised, my ass.\nMore like credulous malingerer. This is a psychiatric syndrome.\n\n>can develop excessive yeast\n>colonization somewhere in the body. It is a tough question to answer since\n>testing for excessive yeast colonization is not easy. One almost has to\n>take an empirical approach to diagnosis. Fortunately, Sporanox is relatively\n>safe unlike past anti-fungals (still have to be careful, however) so there\'s\n>no reason any longer to withhold Sporanox treatment for empirical reasons.\n\nYou know, it\'s a shame that a drug like itraconazole is being misused\nin this way. It\'s ridiculously expensive, and potentially toxic.\nThe trouble is that it isn\'t toxic enough, so it gets abused by quacks.\n\n>BTW, some would say to try Nystatin. Unfortunately, most yeast grows hyphae\n>too deep into tissue for Nystatin to have any permanent affect. You\'ll find\n>a lot of people who are on Nystatin all the time.\n\nThe only good thing about nystatin is that it\'s (relatively) cheap\nand when taken orally, non-toxic. But oral nystatin is without any\nsystemic effect, so unless it were given IV, it would be without\nany effect on your sinuses. I wish these quacks would first use\nIV nystatin or amphotericin B on people like you. That would solve\nthe "yeast" problem once and for all.\n\n>In summary, I appreciate all of the attempts by those who desire to keep\n>medicine on the right road. But methinks that some who hold too firmly\n>to the party line are academics who haven\'t been in the trenches long enough\n>actually treating patients. If anybody, doctors included, said to me to my\n>face that there is no evidence of the \'yeast connection\', I cannot guarantee\n>their safety. For their incompetence, ripping off their lips is justified as\n>far as I am concerned.\n\nPerhaps a little Haldol would go a long way towards ameliorating\nyour symptoms.\n\nAre you paying for this treatment out of your own pocket? I\'d hate\nto think my insurance premiums are going towards this.\n\n-- \nSteve Dyer\ndyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer\n',
'From: jmuller@ic.sunysb.edu (John S Muller)\nSubject: WAYNE RIGBY\nOrganization: State University of New York at Stony Brook\nLines: 20\nDistribution: world\nNNTP-Posting-Host: csws18.ic.sunysb.edu\n\n\nSorry to clog up the news group with this message.\n\nWayne Rigby, I have the info you requested, but for some\nreason I can not mail it to you. Please contact me!\nSend email address.\nj\n-- \n-------------------------------------------------------------------------------\n"No Real Programmer can function without caffeine" - Zen + Art of Internet\n\n _/_/_/_/_/ _/_/_/_/_/ _/_/ _/_/ John S. Muller\n _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ muller@diego.llnl.gov\n _/ _/_/_/_/_/ _/ _/ _/ muller@sisal.llnl.gov\n _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ jmuller@libserv1.ic.sunysb.edu \n _/_/_/ _/_/_/_/_/ _/ _/ \n\n"You are not drunk until you have to grab the grass,\n to keep the grass from falling off the earth" - Some Stupid Comedian\n-------------------------------------------------------------------------------\n',
'From: bobbe@vice.ICO.TEK.COM (Robert Beauchaine)\nSubject: Re: <<Pompous ass\nOrganization: Tektronix Inc., Beaverton, Or.\nLines: 20\n\nIn article <1ql6jiINN5df@gap.caltech.edu> keith@cco.caltech.edu (Keith Allan Schneider) writes:\n>\n>The "`little\' things" above were in reference to Germany, clearly. People\n>said that there were similar things in Germany, but no one could name any.\n>They said that these were things that everyone should know, and that they\n>weren\'t going to waste their time repeating them. Sounds to me like no one\n>knew, either. I looked in some books, but to no avail.\n\n If the Anne Frank exhibit makes it to your small little world,\n take an afternoon to go see it. \n\n\n/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\ \n\nBob Beauchaine bobbe@vice.ICO.TEK.COM \n\nThey said that Queens could stay, they blew the Bronx away,\nand sank Manhattan out at sea.\n\n^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^\n',
'From: mathew <mathew@mantis.co.uk>\nSubject: Re: university violating separation of church/state?\nOrganization: Mantis Consultants, Cambridge. UK.\nX-Newsreader: rusnews v1.01\nLines: 29\n\ndmn@kepler.unh.edu (...until kings become philosophers or philosophers become kings) writes:\n> Recently, RAs have been ordered (and none have resisted or cared about\n> it apparently) to post a religious flyer entitled _The Soul Scroll: Thoughts\n> on religion, spirituality, and matters of the soul_ on the inside of bathroom\n> stall doors. (at my school, the University of New Hampshire) It is some sort\n> of newsletter assembled by a Hall Director somewhere on campus. It poses a\n> question about \'spirituality\' each issue, and solicits responses to be \n> included in the next \'issue.\' It\'s all pretty vague. I assume it\'s put out\n> by a Christian, but they\'re very careful not to mention Jesus or the bible.\n> I\'ve heard someone defend it, saying "Well it doesn\'t support any one religion.\n> " So what??? This is a STATE university, and as a strong supporter of the\n> separation of church and state, I was enraged.\n> \n> What can I do about this?\n\nIt sounds to me like it\'s just SCREAMING OUT for parody. Give a copy to your\nfriendly neighbourhood SubGenius preacher; with luck, he\'ll run it through the\nmental mincer and hand you back an outrageously offensive and gut-bustingly\nfunny parody you can paste over the originals.\n\nI can see it now:\n\n The Stool Scroll\n Thoughts on Religion, Spirituality, and Matters of the Colon\n\n (You can use this text to wipe)\n\n\nmathew\n',
'From: tas@pegasus.com (Len Howard)\nSubject: Re: Can sin "block" our prayers?\nOrganization: Pegasus, Honolulu\nLines: 24\n\nIn article <Apr.12.03.45.11.1993.18872@athos.rutgers.edu> jayne@mmalt.guild.org (Jayne Kulikauskas) writes:\n>mike@boulder.snsc.unr.edu (Mike McCormick) writes:\n>\n>> Not honoring our wives can cause our prayers to be hindered:\n>> prayers may not be hindered. I Peter 3:7\n>\n>One interpretation I\'ve heard of this verse is that it refers to the sin \n>of physically abusing one\'s wife. The husband is usually physically \n>stronger than his wife but is not permitted to use this to dominate her. \n>He must honor her as his sister in Christ. This would therefore be an \n>example of a specific sin that blocks prayer.\n>Jayne Kulikauskas/ jayne@mmalt.guild.org\n\nI would be a bit more specific in looking at this verse in regard to\n\'blocking\' prayer. I have trouble thinking that God would allow\nanything to block our access to him in prayer, especially if we have\nsinned and are praying for forgivenenss.\n I can see, however, how our prayer life might be hindered by our\nsin, if we are concentrating on what is causing the sin or what has\nhappened, we may not be thinking about prayer, thus our prayers are\n\'hindered\' by our own actions.\n But I don\'t think anything can \'block\' the transmission, or\nreception of prayer to God.\nShalom, Len Howard\n',
'From: acooper@mac.cc.macalstr.edu\nSubject: Re: Where are they now?\nOrganization: Macalester College\nLines: 38\n\nIn article <1qi156INNf9n@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU>, tcbruno@athena.mit.edu (Tom Bruno) writes:\n> \n> Wow. Leave your terminal for a few months and everyone you remember goes\n> away-- how depressing. Actually, there are a few familiar faces out there,\n> counting Bob and Kent, but I don\'t seem to recognize anyone else. Has anyone\n> heard from Graham Matthews recently, or has he gotten his degree and sailed\n> for Greener Pastures (tm)? \n> \n> Which brings me to the point of my posting. How many people out there have \n> been around alt.atheism since 1990? I\'ve done my damnedest to stay on top of\n> the newsgroup, but when you fall behind, you REALLY fall behind (it\'s still not\n> as bad as rec.arts.startrek used to be, but I digress). Has anyone tried to\n> keep up with the deluge? Inquiring minds want to know! Also-- does anyone\n> keep track of where the more infamous posters to alt.atheism end up, once they\n> leave the newsgroup? Just curious, I guess.\n> \n> cheers,\n> tom bruno\n\n\nI am one of those people who always willl have unlimited stores of unfounded\nrespect for people who have been on newsgroups/mailing lists longer than I\nhave, so you certainly have my sympathy Tom. I have only been semi-regularly\nposting (it is TOUGHto keep up) since this February, but I have been reading\nand following the threads since last August: my school\'s newsreader was down\nfor months and our incompetent computing services never bothered to find a new\nfeed site, so it wasn\'t accepting outgoing postings. I don\'t think anyone\nkeeps track of where other posters go: it\'s that old love \'em and leave \'em\nInternet for you again...\n\n\nbest regards,\n\n********************************************************************************\n* Adam John Cooper\t\t"Verily, often have I laughed at the weaklings *\n*\t\t\t\t who thought themselves good simply because *\n* acooper@macalstr.edu\t\t\t\tthey had no claws."\t *\n********************************************************************************\n',
"From: mrb@cbnewsj.cb.att.com (m..bruncati)\nSubject: Re: Smoker's Lungs\nArticle-I.D.: cbnewsj.1993Apr6.161858.12132\nDistribution: na\nOrganization: AT&T\nLines: 15\n\nIn article <1993Apr5.123315.48837@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu>, bennett@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu writes:\n> How long does it take a smoker's lungs to clear of the tar after quitting? \n> Does your chances of getting lung cancer decrease quickly or does it take\n> a considerable amount of time for that to happen?\n\n\n\nSeems to me that I read in either a recent NY Times\nScience Times or maybe it was Science News that there is\nevidence that ex-smoker's risk of lung cancer never returns\nto that of a person who has never smoked (I think it may\nget close). I'll find the article and post it since my\nmemory is hazy on the specifics - if you are interested.\n\nMichael\n",
'From: gt7122b@prism.gatech.edu (boundary)\nSubject: Re: Atheist\'s views on Christianity (was: Re: "Accepting Jeesus in your heart...")\nOrganization: Georgia Institute of Technology\nLines: 52\n\nIn article <Apr.20.03.03.35.1993.3863@geneva.rutgers.edu> jasons@atlastele.com (Jason Smith) writes:\n>In article <Apr.19.05.13.48.1993.29266@athos.rutgers.edu> kempmp@phoenix.oulu.fi (Petri Pihko) writes:\n\n>= This is not true. Science is a collection of models telling us "how",\n>= not why, something happens. I cannot see any good reason why the "why"\n>= questions would be bound only to natural things, assuming that the\n>= supernatural domain exists. If supernatural beings exist, it is\n>= as appropriate to ask why they do so as it is to ask why we exist.\n\nI beg to disagree with the assertion that science is a collection of models.\nScientific models are a game to play, and are only as good as the\nassumptions and measurements (if any) that go into them.\n\nAs an example, I remember when nuclear winter was the big hype in\natmospheric science. It wasn\'t long after Sagan\'s admonitions that\none of our boys was adding another level of reality into his model of\nthe nuclear winter scenario at ERL in Boulder. He decided to assume\nthat the atmosphere is more like a two-dimensional thing, than a one-\ndimensional thing. He also assumed that it rained and that the winds\nblow in the real atmosphere. On returning to Georgia Tech, he showed\na transparency of atmospheric cooling rates according to the year they\nwere generated by the models. There was an unmistakable correlation\nbetween the age (meaning simplicity of assumptions; i.e., remoteness\nfrom reality) of each model and the degree of cooling. Whereas Sagan\'s\nmodel showed an approximate 40-degree cooling episode, the next model \nin sophistication showed about half that, and so on until we got to\nour boy\'s model, which showed a 1-2 degree drop if the war happened in\nthe winter and less than a 10 degree drop if it happened in the summer.\nHe predicted that when we would include the presence of oceans, chemistry,\nthe biosphere, and other indicators of reality in the models, we would\nprobably see even less cooling. Thus nuclear winter was reduced to even\nless than a nuclear autumn, one might say, to a nuclear fizzle.\n\nTo quote from H.S. Yoder,\n\n\tThe postulated models have become accepted as the reality\n\tinstead of the lattice of assumptions they are.\n\tAuthoritarianism dominates the field, and a very critical\n\tanalysis of each argument is to be encouraged.... Skepticism\n\tof the model approach to earth problems is warranted because\n\tmany key parameters have not been included.\n\nThis statement surely applies equally well to cosmogony. Only when\nconvincing observational evidence substantiates the modeled results\nmay one suggest that the model may describe the reality. Just thought\nI\'d clear that up before things really got out of hand. \n \n-- \nboundary\n\nno teneis que pensar que yo haya venido a traer la paz a la tierra; no he\nvenido a traer la paz, sino la guerra (Mateo 10:34, Vulgata Latina) \n',
'From: I3150101@dbstu1.rz.tu-bs.de (Benedikt Rosenau)\nSubject: Re: Americans and Evolution\nOrganization: Technical University Braunschweig, Germany\nLines: 67\n\nIn article <1pq47tINN8lp@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU>\nbobs@thnext.mit.edu (Robert Singleton) writes:\n \n(Deletion)\n>\n>I will argue that your latter statement, "I believe that no gods exist"\n>does rest upon faith - that is, if you are making a POSITIVE statement\n>that "no gods exist" (strong atheism) rather than merely saying I don\'t\n>know and therefore don\'t believe in them and don\'t NOT believe in then\n>(weak atheism). Once again, to not believe in God is different than saying\n>I BELIEVE that God does not exist. I still maintain the position, even\n>after reading the FAQs, that strong atheism requires faith.\n>\n \nNo it in the way it is usually used. In my view, you are saying here that\ndriving a car requires faith that the car drives.\n \nFor me it is a conclusion, and I have no more faith in it than I have in the\npremises and the argument used.\n \n \n>But first let me say the following.\n>We might have a language problem here - in regards to "faith" and\n>"existence". I, as a Christian, maintain that God does not exist.\n>To exist means to have being in space and time. God does not HAVE\n>being - God IS Being. Kierkegaard once said that God does not\n>exist, He is eternal. With this said, I feel it\'s rather pointless\n>to debate the so called "existence" of God - and that is not what\n>I\'m doing here. I believe that God is the source and ground of\n>being. When you say that "god does not exist", I also accept this\n>statement - but we obviously mean two different things by it. However,\n>in what follows I will use the phrase "the existence of God" in it\'s\n>\'usual sense\' - and this is the sense that I think you are using it.\n>I would like a clarification upon what you mean by "the existence of\n>God".\n>\n \nNo, that\'s a word game. The term god is used in a different way usually.\nWhen you use a different definition it is your thing, but until it is\ncommonly accepted you would have to say the way I define god is ... and\nthat does not exist, it is existence itself, so I say it does not exist.\n \nInterestingly, there are those who say that "existence exists" is one of\nthe indubitable statements possible.\n \nFurther, saying god is existence is either a waste of time, existence is\nalready used and there is no need to replace it by god, or you are implying\nmore with it, in which case your definition and your argument so far\nare incomplete, making it a fallacy.\n \n \n(Deletion)\n>One can never prove that God does or does not exist. When you say\n>that you believe God does not exist, and that this is an opinion\n>"based upon observation", I will have to ask "what observtions are\n>you refering to?" There are NO observations - pro or con - that\n>are valid here in establishing a POSITIVE belief.\n(Deletion)\n \nWhere does that follow? Aren\'t observations based on the assumption\nthat something exists?\n \nAnd wouldn\'t you say there is a level of definition that the assumption\n"god is" is meaningful. If not, I would reject that concept anyway.\n \nSo, where is your evidence for that "god is" is meaningful at some level?\n Benedikt\n',
'From: salaris@niblick.ecn.purdue.edu (Rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrabbits)\nSubject: Re: Hell_2: Black Sabbath\nOrganization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network\nLines: 28\n\nIn article <Apr.22.00.57.03.1993.2118@geneva.rutgers.edu>, jprzybyl@skidmore.edu (jennifer przybylinski) writes:\n> Hey...\n> \n> I may be wrong, but wasn\'t Jeff Fenholt part of Black Sabbath? He\'s a\n> MAJOR brother in Christ now. He totally changed his life around, and\n> he and his wife go on tours singing, witnessing, and spreading the\n> gospel for Christ. I may be wrong about Black Sabbath, but I know he\n> was in a similar band if it wasn\'t that particular group...\n> \n\nJeff Fenholt claims to have once been a roadie for Black Sabbath.\nHe was never ever a musician in the band. He was in St. Louis several\nmonths back. The poster I saw at the Christian bookstore I frequent\nreally turned me off. It was addressed to all "Homosexuals, prostitutes,\ndrug addicts, alcoholics, and headbangers..." or something like that.\n\nWell, if I showed up with my long hair and black leather jacket I\nwould have felt a little pre-judged. As a Orthodox Christian, and\na "headbanger" I was slightly insulted at being lumped together with\ndrug addicts and alcoholics. Oh yes, I suppose since I drink a good\nGerman beer now and then that makes me an alcoholic. NOT!\n\n\n--\nSteven C. Salaris We\'re...a lot more dangerous than 2 Live Crew\nsalaris@carcs1.wustl.edu and their stupid use of foul language because\n\t\t\t\t we have ideas. We have a philosophy.\n\t\t\t\t\t Geoff Tate -- Queensryche\n',
'From: samson@prlhp1.prl.philips.co.uk (Mark Samson)\nSubject: Psygnosis CD-I titles (was Re: Rumours about 3DO ???)\nReply-To: samson@prlhp1.UUCP (Mark Samson)\nOrganization: Philips Research Laboratories, Redhill, UK\nLines: 42\n\nIn article <1993Apr20.130854.27039@rchland.ibm.com> ricardo@rchland.vnet.ibm.com (Ricardo Hernandez Muchado) writes:\n>\n> Anyway, still with 15Mhz, you need sprites for a lot of tricks for\n>making cool awesome games (read psygnosis).\n\nSpeaking of Psygnosis, they have licensed games to Philips Interative\nMedia International for CD-I.\n\nThe following was recently posted in a message in the CD-I section of\nthe Multimedia Forum.\n\n"Seventh Guest has been licensed by Virgin Games to Philips Interactive\nMedia International for worldwide CD-I rights. Were also licensed to\nP.I.M.I. Litil Divil from Gremlin Graphics (UK) and Microcosm from\nPsygnosis (UK). Those three titles will be adapted on CD-I using the full\npotential of the FMV cartridge, meaning, using the additional memory as\nwell as the motion video capabilities. Those titles have been negociated\nin Europe but will be available worldwide.\n\nAlso, Lemmings 1 & 2 have been licensed from Psygnosis, as well as Striker\nSoccer from Rage (UK)."\n\nI don\'t know when these titles will be available or when work on them even\nstarted (so don\'t expect your CD-I retailer to have them yet).\n\nThere was also some mention of future Nintendo CD-I games in an issue of the\nUK magazine ERT - Mario Hotel was mentioned as having 75 levels.\n\nMark\n\n[Although I work for Philips, I don\'t work on CD-I or multimedia. The above\ninfo is just provided in good faith from what I\'ve read and does not\nrepresent any statement from Philips]\n\n******************************************************************************\nMark Samson: Information Technology Group, Philips Research Laboratories, \nCross Oak Lane, Redhill, Surrey RH1 5HA \nTel(my Ext): 0293 815387 Tel(labs): 0293 785544 Telex: 877261 Fax: 0293 776495\nEmail:- SERI: samson@prlhp0 UNIX: samson@prl.philips.co.uk \nBinary files: packages@prlhp0\n******************************************************************************\n\n',
'From: mccullou@snake2.cs.wisc.edu (Mark McCullough)\nSubject: Re: <Political Atheists?\nOrganization: University of Wisconsin, Madison -- Computer Sciences Dept.\nLines: 109\n\n\nMy turn to jump in! :)\n\nIn article <1pi8h5INNq40@gap.caltech.edu> keith@cco.caltech.edu (Keith Allan Schneider) writes:\n>(reference line trimmed)\n>\n>livesey@solntze.wpd.sgi.com (Jon Livesey) writes:\n>\n>[...]\n>\n>>There is a good deal more confusion here. You started off with the \n>>assertion that there was some "objective" morality, and as you admit\n>>here, you finished up with a recursive definition. Murder is \n>>"objectively" immoral, but eactly what is murder and what is not itself\n>>requires an appeal to morality.\n>\n\nI think you mean circular, not recursive, but that is semantics.\nRecursiveness has no problems, it is just horribly inefficient (just ask\nany assembly programmer.)\n\n>Yes.\n>\n>>Now you have switch targets a little, but only a little. Now you are\n>>asking what is the "goal"? What do you mean by "goal?". Are you\n>>suggesting that there is some "objective" "goal" out there somewhere,\n>>and we form our morals to achieve it?\n>\n>Well, for example, the goal of "natural" morality is the survival and\n>propogation of the species. Another example of a moral system is\n>presented within the Declaration of Independence, which states that we\n>should be guaranteed life liberty and the pursuit of happiness. You see,\n>to have a moral system, we must define the purpose of the system. That is,\n>we shall be moral unto what end?\n\nThe oft-quoted line that says people should be guaranteed life, liberty\nand the pursuit of happiness as inalienable rights, is a complete lie\nand deception, as the very authors of that line were in the process of\nproving. Liberty is never free, it is always purchased at some cost, \nalmost always at the cost to another. Whos liberty is more inalienable?\nSimilarly for right of life. When one person must die if he is to save\nanother, or even a group of others, whos life is more inalienable? \nThat leads into the classic question of the value of the death penalty, \nespecially for serial killers. Whos life and liberty is more valuable,\nthe serial killer, or the victim? According to that beautiful line,\nthose two rights should be completely inviolate, that is, noone should be\nable to remove them. This _includes_ government. Admittedly the serial\nkiller has restricted some people\'s life and/or liberty, but is not his\nown life/liberty inviolate also? According to the declaration of independence,\nit is.\n\n>>>Murder is certainly a violation of the golden rule. And, I thought I had\n>>>defined murder as an intentional killing of a non-murderer, against his will.\n\nOooh, I like that. It means that killing an infant is not murder because\nit cannot be against its will. Reason, an infant has no will as such.\n\nSimilarly for people who are brain dead (easier to see), in a coma, etc.\n\nAlso, under current law, accidental killing is still murder. How will you\ninclude that?\n\n>>>And you responded to this by asking whether or not the execution of an\n>>>innocent person under our system of capital punishment was a murder or not.\n>>>I fail to see what this has to do with anything. I never claimed that our\n>>>system of morality was an objective one.\n>>I thought that was your very first claim. That there was\n>>some kind of "objective" morality, and that an example of that was\n>>that murder is wrong. If you don\'t want to claim that any more,\n>>that\'s fine.\n\nThe only real golden rule in life is, he who has the gold, makes the\nrules. I.e. Might Makes Right. That is survival. Now what is wrong\nwith that?\n\n>Well, murder violates the golen rule, which is certainly a pillar of most\n>every moral system. However, I am not assuming that our current system\n>and the manner of its implementation are objectively moral. I think that\n>it is a very good approximation, but we can\'t be perfect.\n\nIf you mean the golden rule as I stated, yes, almost every system as\nimplemented has used that in reality. Sorry, I don\'t deal as much in\nfiction, as I do in reality. \n\n>>And by the way, you don\'t seem to understand the difference between\n>>"arbitrary" and "objective". If Keith Schneider "defines" murder\n>>to be this that and the other, that\'s arbitrary. Jon Livesey may\n>>still say "Well, according to my personal system of morality, all\n>>killing of humans against their will is murder, and wrong, and what\n>>the legal definition of murder may be in the USA, Kuweit, Saudi\n>>Arabia, or the PRC may be matters not a whit to me".\n\nWELCOME TO OZLAND!!!!!!! :)\n\nWhat is NOT arbitrary? If you can find some part of society, some societal\nrules, morals, etc. that are not arbitrary, please tell me. I don\'t think\nthere are any.\n\n>Well, "objective" would assume a system based on clear and fundamental\n>concepts, while "arbitary" implies no clear line of reasoning.\n>\n>keith\nSounds like euphemisms to me. The difference seems to be, that objective\nis some reasoning that I like, while arbitrary is some reasoning that\nI don\'t like OR don\'t understand. \n\nM^2\n\n\n',
"From: nyeda@cnsvax.uwec.edu (David Nye)\nSubject: Re: OB-GYN residency\nOrganization: University of Wisconsin Eau Claire\nLines: 13\n\n[reply to geb@cs.pitt.edu (Gordon Banks)]\n \n>>I believe it is illegal for a residency to discriminate against FMGs.\n \n>Is that true? I know some that won't even interview FMGs.\n \nI think a case could be made that this is discriminatory, particularly\nif an applicant had good board scores and recommendations but wasn't\noffered an interview, but I don't know if it has ever gone to court.\n \nDavid Nye (nyeda@cnsvax.uwec.edu). Midelfort Clinic, Eau Claire WI\nThis is patently absurd; but whoever wishes to become a philosopher\nmust learn not to be frightened by absurdities. -- Bertrand Russell\n",
"From: news@cbnewsk.att.com\nSubject: Re: An agnostic's question\nOrganization: AT&T Bell Labs\nLines: 42\n\nIn article <Apr.17.01.11.16.1993.2265@geneva.rutgers.edu> jdt@voodoo.ca.boeing.com (Jim Tomlinson (jimt II)) writes:\n>Pardon me if this is the wrong newsgroup. I would describe myself as\n>an agnostic, in so far as I'm sure there is no single, universal\n>supreme being, but if there is one and it is just, we will surely be\n>judged on whether we lived good lives, striving to achieve that\n>goodness that is within the power of each of us. Now, the\n>complication is that one of my best friends has become very\n>fundamentalist. That would normally be a non-issue with me, but he\n>feels it is his responsibility to proselytize me (which I guess it is,\n>according to his faith). This is a great strain to our friendship...\n\nSorry to disappoint you, but I'm afraid your friendship is in danger. \nPerhaps you should examine in yourself why as such a good friend, you \nare unwilling to accept this imortant part of your friends life? Why \ndo you call into question his faith? Your friend has changed, he has \nfound something that fills a need in his life. You need to decide if \nyou are still his friend, whether you can accommodate his new life. \nIt sounds as if you are criticizing him for a fundamental belief in \nthe Bible, yet you are quick to reveal that your fundamental belief \nthat it is superstition. Perhaps if he knew you at least took him \nseriously, that you at least took an interest in the light he has found, \nthat you at least tried to understand what has become a special part of \nhis life, you could together decide to become fundamentalists, respect \neach others differences and remain friends, or part ways. Maybe even if \nyou stuck it out with him, you could help him to un-convert. Of course, \nif you go in with that attitude he will surely see through your intentions \nand begin to resent you.\n\nI happen to be a person very tolerant of fundamentalists, because I know\nthat the idea of a simple black and white approach to life is appealing.\nI don't happen to share the beliefs of fundamentalists, but I am not\noffended by their prosyletizing. I had a few good conversations with\nsome Witnesses who came to my door. I didn't switch my beliefs, but for\nthose at home who maybe need a friendly face to invite them somewhere,\nthe Witnesses provide a wonderful service. You may have been conditioned\nto believe that religion is unimportant and witnessing is obnoxious, but\nwhy? Are you afraid you might be converted and become one of them, that\nyou will be swept up in fundamentalism, that you will become a weirdo.\nFriendship's a two-way street. You must respect your friend, ALL of him,\nincluding his beliefs, if you want the friendship to continue.\n\nJoe Moore\n",
'From: geb@cs.pitt.edu (Gordon Banks)\nSubject: Re: Menangitis question\nArticle-I.D.: pitt.19439\nReply-To: geb@cs.pitt.edu (Gordon Banks)\nOrganization: Univ. of Pittsburgh Computer Science\nLines: 42\n\nIn article <C4nzn6.Mzx@crdnns.crd.ge.com> brooksby@brigham.NoSubdomain.NoDomain (Glen W Brooksby) writes:\n>This past weekend a friend of mine lost his 13 month old\n>daughter in a matter of hours to a form of menangitis. The\n>person informing me called it \'Nicereal Meningicocis\' (sp?).\n>In retrospect, the disease struck her probably sometime on \n>Friday evening and she passed away about 2:30pm on Saturday.\n>The symptoms seemed to be a rash that started small and\n>then began progressing rapidly. She began turning blue\n>eventually which was the tip-off that this was serious\n>but by that time it was too late (this is all second hand info.).\n>\n>My question is:\n>Is this an unusual form of Menangitis? How is it transmitted?\n>How does it work (ie. how does it kill so quickly)?\n>\n\nNo, the neiseria meningococcus is one of the most common\nforms of meningitis. It\'s the one that sometimes sweeps\nschools or boot camp. It is contagious and kills by attacking\nthe covering of the brain, causing the blood vessels to thrombose\nand the brain to swell up.\n\nIt is very treatable if caught in time. There isn\'t much time,\nhowever. The rash is the tip off. Infants are very susceptible\nto dying from bacterial meningitis. Any infant with a fever who\nbecomes stiff or lethargic needs to be rushed to a hospital where\na spinal tap will show if they have meningitis. Seizures can also\noccur.\n\n>Immediate family members were told to take some kind of medication\n>to prevent them from being carriers, yet they didn\'t have\n>any concerns about my wife and I coming to visit them.\n>\n\nIt can live in the throat of carriers. Don\'t worry, you won\'t get \nit from them, especially if they took the medication.\n\n-- \n----------------------------------------------------------------------------\nGordon Banks N3JXP | "Skepticism is the chastity of the intellect, and\ngeb@cadre.dsl.pitt.edu | it is shameful to surrender it too soon." \n----------------------------------------------------------------------------\n',
'From: vek@allegra.att.com (Van Kelly)\nSubject: Re: Prayer in Jesus\' Name\nOrganization: AT&T Bell Laboratories, Murray Hill, NJ, USA\nLines: 39\n\nAccording to what I have read on Biblical idioms, speaking "in X\'s\nname" is a standard Aramaic/Hebrew legal idiom for what we today\nwould call Power of Attorney. A person from Jesus\' culture authorized\nto conduct business "in John\'s name" had full authority over John\'s\nfinancial affairs, but was held under a solemn fiduciary obligation to\nwork only for John\'s benefit and consonant with John\'s wishes. It was\nnot required for the steward to preface each business transaction with\n"in John\'s name"; it was sufficient to have valid power of attorney\nand be operating in good faith. (Note the overlap here between legal\nand religious definitions of "faith".)\n\nWith this cultural background, praying "in Jesus\' name" does not\nmandate a particular verbal formula; rather it requires that the\npetitioner be operating faithfully and consciously within an analogous\n"fiduciary" relationship with Jesus and for the purposes of His\nKingdom. The message of "praying in Jesus\' name" is thus closely\naligned with the parable of the talents and other passages about God\'s\ndelegation of Kingdom business to his stewards, both resources and\nresponsibilities. This idea of praying "in Jesus\' name" is not only\npresent but prominent in the Lord\'s Prayer, although the verbal\nforumula is absent.\n\nThe act of praying the words "In Jesus\' Name" may be beneficial if\nthey cause us to clarify the relationship of our requests to the\nadvancement of God\'s Kingdom. For that reason, I\'m not quite ready\nto say that the praying the formula is without meaning.\n\nPrayers to God for other purposes (desperation, anger, thanksgiving,\netc.) don\'t seem to be in this category at all, whether uttered by\nChristian or non-Christian, whether B.C. or A.D. (that\'s B.C.E. or\nC.E. for you P.C. :-). I don\'t see anything in Christ\'s words to\ncontradict the idea that God deals with all prayers according to His\nomniscience and grace.\n\nVan Kelly\nvek@research.att.com\n\n\nThe above opinions are my own, and not those of AT&T.\n',
'From: jhpb@sarto.budd-lake.nj.us (Joseph H. Buehler)\nSubject: Re: SSPX schism ?\nOrganization: none\nLines: 52\n\nBob Van Cleef writes:\n\n If the Papacy is infallible, and this is a matter of faith, then the \n Pope cannot "be wrong!" If, on the other hand, this is not a matter \n of faith, but a matter of Church law, then we should still obey as the\n Pope is the legal head of the church.\n\n In other words, given the doctrine of infallibility, we have no choice\n but to obey.\n\nThis is a primary problem in the Church today. What you are saying is\nmore or less heresy. You might call it "infallibilism". It\'s the\nidea that the Pope is always right in everything he says or does.\nThis is virtually all over the place, especially in this country.\n\nThe Pope is only infallible under certain very specific and\nwell-defined conditions. When these conditions are not met, he can\nmake mistakes. He can make *big* mistakes.\n\nA couple historical examples come to mind.\n\nBishop Robert Grosseteste was perhaps the greatest product of the\nEnglish Catholic Church. At one point during his career, the reigning\nPope decided to install one of his nephews in an English see. Bishop\nGrosseteste said that this would happen over his dead body (though\nmaybe not in so many words; you have to treat Popes with respect, even\nwhen they are wrong). The problem was that this nephew would just\ncollect the income of the see, and probably never set foot there.\nThis would deprive the people of the see of a shepherd. Bishop\nGrosseteste was quite right in what he did!\n\nAnother example is that of Pope John XXII, a Pope of the Middle Ages.\nHe decided that souls that were saved did not enjoy the Beatific\nVision until the Last Judgement. He decided that this should be a\ndefined doctrine of the Church. Though he didn\'t quite get around to\ndefining it. Now there\'s no way this is compatible with Catholic\ndoctrine. The Pope\'s doctrine was criticised by many in the Church.\nHe went so far as to put a number of his opponents in jail, even. In\nthe end, he had to admit his mistake. Shortly before he died, he\nrecanted. His successor made the exact *opposite* idea a dogma of the\nChurch.\n\nIf you consult any of the great Catholic theologians who treat of such\nsubjects, such as St. Robert Bellarmine (a Doctor of the Church), you\nwill find detailed discussions of whether the Pope can personally fall\ninto heresy or schism.\n\nThe teaching of all such theologians is that the commands of a Pope\nmust be resisted if they are to the detriment of the Catholic Faith.\nA Pope\'s authority is given for the purpose of building up the\nCatholic Church. Commands in conflict with this purpose have no\nlegal *or* moral force.\n',
"From: jbulf@balsa.Berkeley.EDU (Jeff Bulf)\nSubject: Re: Fractal compression\nKeywords: fractal\nReply-To: jbulf@balsa.Berkeley.EDU (Jeff Bulf)\nOrganization: Kubota Pacific Computers Inc.\nLines: 12\n\nIn article <inu530n.735550992@lindblat.cc.monash.edu.au>, inu530n@lindblat.cc.monash.edu.au (I Rachmat) writes:\n|> Hi... can anybody give me book or reference title to give me a start at \n|> fractal image compression technique. Helps will be appreciated... thanx\n\nFor better worse, the source on this on is Michael Barnsley. His article\nin The Science of Fractal Images (Peitgen et al) is a fair-to-middling\nintro. Barnsley's book Fractals Everywhere is a more thorough treatment.\nThe book covers Iterated Function Systems in general, and their application\nto image compression is clear from the text.\n--- \n\tdr memory\n\tjbulf@kpc.com\n",
'Subject: "STAR GARTDS" <sp?> Info wanted\nFrom: kmcvay@oneb.almanac.bc.ca (Ken Mcvay)\nOrganization: The Old Frog\'s Almanac\nLines: 11\n\nA friend\'s daughter has been diagnosed with an eye disease called "Star\nGartds" (or something close) - it is apparently genetic, according to her,\nand affects every fourth generation.\n\nShe would appreciate any information about this condition. If anything is\navailable via ftp, please point me in the right direction..\n-- \nThe Old Frog\'s Almanac - A Salute to That Old Frog Hisse\'f, Ryugen Fisher \n (604) 245-3205 (v32) (604) 245-4366 (2400x4) SCO XENIX 2.3.2 GT \n Ladysmith, British Columbia, CANADA. Serving Central Vancouver Island \nwith public access UseNet and Internet Mail - home to the Holocaust Almanac\n',
"From: jodfishe@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (joseph dale fisher)\nSubject: Re: Ancient Books\nOrganization: Indiana University\nLines: 8\n\nOf course, I'd still recommend that Michael read _True and Reasonable_\nby Douglas Jacoby.\n\nJoe Fisher\n\nOh, and Michael, I wait to see any dents in any armor and my faith\nhasn't wavered since the day I became a disciple. You may want to try\nit sometime. It's life-changing!\n",
'From: geb@cs.pitt.edu (Gordon Banks)\nSubject: Re: Patient-Physician Diplomacy\nReply-To: geb@cs.pitt.edu (Gordon Banks)\nOrganization: Univ. of Pittsburgh Computer Science\nLines: 18\n\nIn article <1993Mar29.130824.16629@aoa.aoa.utc.com> carl@aoa.aoa.utc.com (Carl Witthoft) writes:\n\n>What is "unacceptable" about this is that hospitals and MDs by law\n>have no choice but to treat you if you show up sick or mangled from\n>an accident. If you aren\'t rich and have no insurance, who is going\n>to foot your bills? Do you actually intend to tell the ambulance\n>"No, let me die in the gutter because I can\'t afford the treatment"??\n\nBy law, they would not be allowed to do that anyhow.\n\n\n\n\n-- \n----------------------------------------------------------------------------\nGordon Banks N3JXP | "Skepticism is the chastity of the intellect, and\ngeb@cadre.dsl.pitt.edu | it is shameful to surrender it too soon." \n----------------------------------------------------------------------------\n',
'From: rogers@calamari.hi.com (Andrew Rogers)\nSubject: Re: Is MSG sensitivity superstition?\nOrganization: Flames \'R Us\nLines: 13\nNNTP-Posting-Host: calamari.hi.com\n\nIn article <1993Apr15.153729.13738@walter.bellcore.com> jchen@ctt.bellcore.com writes:\n>Chinese, and many other Asians (Japanese, Koreans, etc) have used\n>MSG as flavor enhancer for two thousand years. Do you believe that\n>they knew how to make MSG from chemical processes? Not. They just\n>extracted it from natural food such sea food and meat broth.\n\nAnd to add further fuel to the flame war, I read about 20 years ago that\nthe "natural" MSG - extracted from the sources you mention above - does not\ncause the reported aftereffects; it\'s only that nasty "artificial" MSG -\nextracted from coal tar or whatever - that causes Chinese Restaurant\nSyndrome. I find this pretty hard to believe; has anyone else heard it?\n\nAndrew\n',
"From: cfairman@leland.Stanford.EDU (Carolyn Jean Fairman)\nSubject: Re: *** The list of Biblical contradictions\nOrganization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA\nLines: 26\n\njoslin@pogo.isp.pitt.edu (David Joslin) writes:\n\n>Someone writes:\n>>I found a list of Biblical contradictions and cleaned it up a bit,\n>>but now I'd like some help with it.\n\n>I'm curious to know what purpose people think these lists serve.\n\nIt's about time. Why do atheists spend so much time paying attention\nto the bible, anyway?\n\nFace it, there are better things to do with your life! I used to\nchuckle and snort over the silliness in that book and the absurdity\nof people believing in it as truth, etc. Why do we spend so little\ntime on the Mayan religion, or the Native Americans? Heck, the Native\nAmericans have signifigantly more interesting myths. Also, what\nabout the Egyptians.\n\nI think we pay so much attention to Christianity because we accept\nit as a _religion_ and not a mythology, which I find more accurate.\n\n\nI try to be tolerant. It gets very hard when someone places a book\nunder my nose and tells me it's special. It's not.\n\nCarolyn\n",
'From: ray@engr.LaTech.edu (Bill Ray)\nSubject: Re: The Bible and Abortion\nOrganization: Louisiana Tech University\nLines: 38\nDistribution: world,local\nNNTP-Posting-Host: ee02.engr.latech.edu\nX-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]\n\nJames J. Lippard (lippard@skyblu.ccit.arizona.edu) wrote:\n: Exodus 21:22-25:\n\n: 22 And if men struggle with each other and strike a woman with\n: child so that she has a miscarriage, yet there is no further\n: injury, he shall surely be fined as the woman\'s husband may\n: demand of him; and he shall pay as the judges decide.\n: 23 But if there is any further injury, then you shall appoint\n: as a penalty life for life,\n: 24 eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot,\n: 25 burn for burn, wound for wound, bruise for bruise.\n\n: The most straightforward interpretation of these verses is that if\n: men in a fight strike a woman and cause her to miscarry, the penalty\n: is only a fine. If, however, the woman is injured or dies, the\n: *lex talionis* doctrine of "an eye for an eye" applies. This is the\n: Jewish interpretation, and is supported by Jewish commentaries on\n: these verses.\n: This is quite an embarrassment for pro-lifer Christians, so there is\n: of course an alternate explanation. The alternative interprets the\n: word "miscarriage" to mean "premature birth"--i.e., the child is born\n: alive--and "further injury" to mean injury to either the woman or\n: the fetus. This is not a straightforward interpretation, it is not\n: (so far as I know) supported by any Jewish commentaries, and it does\n: not appeared to be supported by any other part of the Bible.\n\nWhat if any, historical reference do we have to abortion at this time? Did\nthe ancient Jew have appropriate reference to understand abortion? (I am\ntruly asking, not making a point veiled as a question). If there is \nlittle understanding of the medical procedure we know as abortion, it is\nnot surprising the Bible makes little reference to it, as it makes little\nreference to nuclear power and contamination.\n\nWhile your interpretation is a reasonable one, I see no reason to reject\nthe other out of hand. The King Jimmy translation says "if there is no\nfurther mischief." This does not necessarily imply to the woman. I know\nif my wife we expecting and someone cause her to spontaneously abort, we\nwould feel that a life was truly taken, not simply a process halted.\n',
"From: cash@convex.com (Peter Cash)\nSubject: Re: Need advice with doctor-patient relationship problem\nNntp-Posting-Host: zeppelin.convex.com\nOrganization: The Instrumentality\nX-Disclaimer: This message was written by a user at CONVEX Computer\n Corp. The opinions expressed are those of the user and\n not necessarily those of CONVEX.\nLines: 16\n\nIn article <C5L9qB.4y5@athena.cs.uga.edu> mcovingt@aisun3.ai.uga.edu (Michael Covington) writes:\n>Sounds as though his heart's in the right place, but he is not adept at\n>expressing it. What you received was _meant_ to be a profound apology.\n>Apologies delivered by overworked shy people often come out like that...\n\nHis _heart_? This jerk doesn't have a heart, and it beats me why you're\napologizing for him. In my book, behavior like this is unprofessional,\ninexcusable, and beyond the pale. If he's overworked, it's because he's too\nbusy raking in the bucks. More likely, he just likes to push women around.\nI'd fire the s.o.b., and get myself another doctor.\n\n-- \n~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~\n | Die Welt ist alles, was Zerfall ist. |\nPeter Cash | (apologies to Ludwig Wittgenstein) |cash@convex.com\n~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~\n",
'From: lpzsml@unicorn.nott.ac.uk (Steve Lang)\nSubject: Re: Objective Values \'v\' Scientific Accuracy (was Re: After 2000 years, can we say that Christian Morality is)\nOrganization: Nottingham University\nLines: 38\n\nIn article <C5J718.Jzv@dcs.ed.ac.uk>, tk@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Tommy Kelly) wrote:\n> In article <1qjahh$mrs@horus.ap.mchp.sni.de> frank@D012S658.uucp (Frank O\'Dwyer) writes:\n> \n> >Science ("the real world") has its basis in values, not the other way round, \n> >as you would wish it. \n> \n> You must be using \'values\' to mean something different from the way I\n> see it used normally.\n> \n> And you are certainly using \'Science\' like that if you equate it to\n> "the real world".\n> \n> Science is the recognition of patterns in our perceptions of the Universe\n> and the making of qualitative and quantitative predictions concerning\n> those perceptions.\n\nScience is the process of modeling the real world based on commonly agreed\ninterpretations of our observations (perceptions).\n\n> It has nothing to do with values as far as I can see.\n> Values are ... well they are what I value.\n> They are what I would have rather than not have - what I would experience\n> rather than not, and so on.\n\nValues can also refer to meaning. For example in computer science the\nvalue of 1 is TRUE, and 0 is FALSE. Science is based on commonly agreed\nvalues (interpretation of observations), although science can result in a\nreinterpretation of these values.\n\n> Objective values are a set of values which the proposer believes are\n> applicable to everyone.\n\nThe values underlaying science are not objective since they have never been\nfully agreed, and the change with time. The values of Newtonian physic are\ncertainly different to those of Quantum Mechanics.\n\nSteve Lang\nSLANG->SLING->SLINK->SLICK->SLACK->SHACK->SHANK->THANK->THINK->THICK\n',
'From: david@stat.com (David Dodell)\nSubject: HICN610 Medical News Part 4/4\nReply-To: david@stat.com (David Dodell)\nDistribution: world\nOrganization: Stat Gateway Service, WB7TPY\nLines: 577\n\n------------- cut here -----------------\nlimits of AZT\'s efficacy and now suggest using the drug either sequentially \nwith other drugs or in a kind of AIDS treatment "cocktail" combining a number \nof drugs to fight the virus all at once. "Treating people with AZT alone \ndoesn\'t happen in the real world anymore," said Dr. Mark Jacobson of the \nUniversity of California--San Francisco. Also, with recent findings \nindicating that HIV replicates rapidly in the lymph nodes after infection, \nphysicians may begin pushing even harder for early treatment of HIV-infected \npatients.\n================================================================== \n\n"New Infectious Disease Push" American Medical News (04/05/93) Vol. 36, No. \n13, P. 2 \n\n The Center for Disease Control will launch a worldwide network to track \nthe spread of infectious diseases and detect drug-resistant or new strains in \ntime to help prevent their spread. The network is expected to cost between \n$75 million and $125 million but is an essential part of the Clinton \nadministration\'s health reform plan, according to the CDC and outside \nexperts. The plan will require the CDC to enhance surveillance of disease in \nthe United States and establish about 15 facilities across the world to \ntrack disease. \n\n ===================================================================== \n April 13, 1993 \n ===================================================================== \n\n"NIH Plans to Begin AIDS Drug Trials at Earlier Stage" Nature (04/01/93) Vol. \n362, No. 6419, P. 382 (Macilwain, Colin) \n\n\nHICNet Medical Newsletter Page 42\nVolume 6, Number 10 April 20, 1993\n\n The National Institutes of Health has announced it will start treating \nHIV-positive patients as soon as possible after seroconversion, resulting \nfrom recent findings that show HIV is active in the body in large numbers \nmuch earlier than was previously believed. Anthony Fauci, director of the \nU.S. National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases (NIAID), said, \n"We must address the question of how to treat people as early as we possibly \ncan with drugs that are safe enough to give people for years and that will \nget around microbial resistance." He said any delay would signify questions \nover safety and resistance rather than a lack of funds. Fauci, who co-\nauthored one of the two papers published last week in Nature, rejects the \nargument by one of his co-authors, Cecil Fox, that the new discovery \nindicates that "$1 billion spent on vaccine trials" has been "a waste of time \nand money" because the trials were started too long after the patients were \ninfected and were ended too quickly. John Tew of the Medical College of \nVirginia in Richmond claims that the new evidence strongly backs the argument \nfor early treatment of HIV-infected patients. AIDS activists welcomed the \nnew information but said the scientific community has been slow to understand \nthe significance of infection of the lymph tissue. "We\'ve known about this \nfor five years, but we\'re glad it is now in the public domain," said Jesse \nDobson of the California-based Project Inform. But Peter Duesberg, who \nbelieves that AIDS is independent of HIV and is a result of drug abuse in the \nWest, said, "We are several paradoxes away from an explanation of AIDS--even \nif these papers are right." \n\n ====================================================================== \n April 14, 1993 \n ====================================================================== \n\n"Risk of AIDS Virus From Doctors Found to Be Minimal" Washington Post \n(04/14/93), P. A9 \n\n The risk of HIV being transmitted from infected health-care \nprofessionals to patients is minimal, according to new research published in \ntoday\'s Journal of the American Medical Association (JAMA). This finding \nsupports previous conclusions by health experts that the chance of \ncontracting HIV from a health care worker is remote. Three studies in the \nJAMA demonstrate that thousands of patients were treated by two HIV-positive \nsurgeons and dentists without becoming infected with the virus. The studies \nwere conducted by separate research teams in New Hampshire, Maryland, and \nFlorida. Each study started with an HIV-positive doctor or dentist and \ntested all patients willing to participate. The New Hampshire study found \nthat none of the 1,174 patients who had undergone invasive procedures by an \nHIV-positive orthopedic surgeon contracted HIV. In Maryland, 413 of 1,131 \npatients operated on by a breast surgery specialist at Johns Hopkins Hospital \nwere found to be HIV-negative. Similarly in Florida, 900 of 1,192 dental \n\nHICNet Medical Newsletter Page 43\nVolume 6, Number 10 April 20, 1993\n\npatients, who all had been treated by an HIV-positive general dentist, were \ntested and found to be negative for HIV. The Florida researchers, led by \nGordon M. Dickinson of the University of Miami School of Medicine, said, \n"This study indicates that the risk for transmission of HIV from a general \ndentist to his patients is minimal in a setting in which universal \nprecautions are strictly observed." Related Story: Philadelphia Inquirer \n(04/14) P. A6 \n====================================================================== \n"Alternative Medicine Advocates Divided Over New NIH Research Program" AIDS \nTreatment News (04/02/93) No. 172, P. 6 (Gilden, Dave) \n\n The new Office of Alternative Medicine at the National Institutes of \nHealth has raised questions about the NIH\'s commitment to an effort that uses \nunorthodox or holistic therapeutic methods. The OAM is a small division of \nthe NIH, with its budget only at $2 million dollars compared to more than $10 \nbillion for the NIH as a whole. In addition, the money for available \nresearch grants is even smaller. About $500,000 to $600,000 total will be \navailable this year for 10 or 20 grants. Kaiya Montaocean, of the Center for \nNatural and Traditional Medicine in Washington, D.C., says the OAM is afraid \nto become involved in AIDS. "They have to look successful and there is no \neasy answer in AIDS," she said. There is also a common perception that the \nOAM will focus on fields the NIH establishment will find non-threatening, \nsuch as relaxation techniques and acupuncture. When the OAM called for an \nadvisory committee conference of about 120 people last year, the AIDS \ncommunity was largely missing from the meeting. In addition, activists\' \ngeneral lack of contact with the Office has added suspicion that the epidemic \nwill be ignored. Jon Greenberg, of ACT-UP/New York, said, "The OAM advisory \npanel is composed of practitioners without real research experience. It \nwill take them several years to accept the nature of research." \nNevertheless, Dr. Leanna Standish, research director and AIDS investigator \nat the Bastyr College of Naturopathic Medicine in Seattle, said, "Here is a \nwonderful opportunity to fund AIDS research. It\'s only fair to give the \nOffice time to gel, but it\'s up to the public to insist that it\'s much, much \nmore [than public relations]." \n====================================================================== \n"Herpesvirus Decimates Immune-cell Soldiers" Science News (04/03/93) Vol. 143, \nNo. 14, P. 215 (Fackelmann, Kathy A.) \n\n Scientists conducting test tube experiments have found that herpesvirus-\n6 can attack the human immune system\'s natural killer cells. This attack \ncauses the killer cells to malfunction, diminishing an important component in \nthe immune system\'s fight against diseases. Also, the herpesvirus-6 may be a \nfactor in immune diseases, such as AIDS. In 1989, Paolo Lusso\'s research \nfound that herpesvirus-6 attacks another white cell, the CD4 T-lymphocyte, \nwhich is the primary target of HIV. Lusso also found that herpesvirus-6 can \n\nHICNet Medical Newsletter Page 44\nVolume 6, Number 10 April 20, 1993\n\nkill natural killer cells. Scientists previously knew that the natural \nkiller cells of patients infected with HIV do not work correctly. Lusso\'s \nresearch represents the first time scientists have indicated that natural \nkiller cells are vulnerable to any kind of viral attack, according to Anthony \nL. Komaroff, a researcher with Harvard Medical School. Despite the test-tube \nfindings, scientists are uncertain whether the same result occurs in the \nbody. Lusso\'s team also found that herpesvirus-6 produces the CD4 receptor \nmolecule that provides access for HIV. CD4 T-lymphocytes express this surface \nreceptor, making them vulnerable to HIV\'s attack. Researchers concluded that \nherpesvirus-6 cells can exacerbate the affects of HIV. \n\n ====================================================================== \n April 15, 1993 \n ==================================================================== \n\n"AIDS and Priorities in the Global Village: To the Editor" Journal of the \nAmerican Medical Association (04/07/93) Vol. 269, No. 13, P. 1636 (Gellert, \nGeorge and Nordenberg, Dale F.) \n\n All health-care workers are obligated and responsible for not only \nensuring that politicians understand the dimensions of certain health \nproblems, but also to be committed to related policies, write George Gellert \nand Dale F. Nordenberg of the Orange County Health Care Agency, Santa Ana, \nCalif., and the Emory University School of Public Health in Atlanta, Ga., \nrespectively. Dr. Berkley\'s editorial on why American doctors should care \nabout the AIDS epidemic beyond the United States details several reasons for \nthe concerted interest that all countries share in combating AIDS. It should \nbe noted that while AIDS leads in hastening global health interdependence, it \nis not the only illness doing so. Diseases such as malaria and many \nrespiratory and intestinal pathogens have similarly inhibited the economic \ndevelopment of most of humanity and acted to marginalize large populations. \nBerkley mentions the enormous social and economic impact that AIDS will have \non many developing countries, and the increased need for international \nassistance that will result. Berkley also cites the lack of political \naggressiveness toward the AIDS epidemic in its first decade. But now there \nis a new administration with a promise of substantial differences in approach \nto international health and development in general, and HIV/AIDS in \nparticular. Vice President Al Gore proposes in his book "Earth in the \nBalance" a major environmental initiative that includes sustainable \ninternational development, with programs to promote literacy, improve child \nsurvival, and disseminate contraceptive technology and access throughout the \ndeveloping world. If enacted, this change in policy could drastically \nchange the future of worldwide health. \n==================================================================== \n"AIDS and Priorities in the Global Village: In Reply" Journal of the American \n\nHICNet Medical Newsletter Page 45\nVolume 6, Number 10 April 20, 1993\n\nMedical Association (04/07/93) Vol. 269, No. 13, P. 1636 (Berkley, Seth) \n\n Every nation should tackle HIV as early and aggressively as possible \nbefore the disease reaches an endemic state, even at a cost of diverting less \nattention to some other illnesses, writes Seth Berkley of the Rockefeller \nFoundation in New York, N.Y., in reply to a letter by Drs. Gellert and \nNordenberg. Although it is true that diseases other than AIDS, such as \nmalaria and respiratory and intestinal illnesses, have similarly inhibited \neconomic development in developing countries and deserve much more attention \nthan they are getting, Berkley disagrees with the contention that AIDS is \nreceiving too much attention. HIV differs from other diseases, in most \ndeveloping countries because it is continuing to spread. For most endemic \ndiseases, the outcome of neglecting interventions for one year is another \nyear of about the same level of needless disease and death. But with AIDS \nand its increasing spread, the cost of neglect, not only in disease burden \nbut financially, is much greater. Interventions in the early part of a \nrampantly spreading epidemic like HIV are highly cost-effective because each \nindividual infection prevented significantly interrupts transmission. Berkley \nsays he agrees with Gellert and Nordenberg about the gigantic social and \neconomic effects of AIDS and about the need for political leadership. But he \nconcludes that not only is assertive political leadership needed in the \nUnited States for the AIDS epidemic, but even more so in developing countries \nwith high rates of HIV infection and where complacency about the epidemic \nhas been the rule.\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\nHICNet Medical Newsletter Page 46\nVolume 6, Number 10 April 20, 1993\n\n\n\n::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::\n AIDS/HIV Articles\n::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::\n\n First HIV Vaccine Trial Begins in HIV-Infected Children\n H H S N E W S\n ********************************************************************\n U.S. DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES\n March 29, 1993\n\n\n First HIV Vaccine Therapy Trial Begins In HIV-Infected Children\n\n\nThe National Institutes of Health has opened the first trial of experimental \nHIV vaccines in children who are infected with the human immunodeficiency \nvirus (HIV), the virus that causes AIDS. \n\nThe trial will compare the safety of three HIV experimental vaccines in 90 \nchildren recruited from at least 12 sites nationwide. Volunteers must be HIV-\ninfected but have no symptoms of HIV disease. \n\nHHS Secretary Donna E. Shalala said this initial study can be seen as "a \nhopeful milestone in our efforts to ameliorate the tragedy of HIV-infected \nchildren who now face the certainty they will develop AIDS." \n\nAnthony S. Fauci, M.D., director of the National Institute of Allergy and \nInfectious Diseases and of the NIH Office of AIDS Research, said the trial "is \nthe first step in finding out whether vaccines can help prevent or delay \ndisease progression in children with HIV who are not yet sick." If these \nvaccines prove to be safe, more sophisticated questions about their \ntherapeutic potential will be assessed in Phase II trials. \n\nThe Centers for Disease Control and Prevention estimates 10,000 children in \nthe United States have HIV. By the end of the decade, the World Health \nOrganization projects 10 million children will be infected worldwide. \n\nThe study will enroll children ages 1 month to 12 years old. NIAID, which \nfunds the AIDS Clinical Trials Group network, anticipates conducting the trial \nat nine ACTG sites around the country and three sites participating in the \nACTG but funded by the National Institute of Child Health and Human \nDevelopment. \n\nPreliminary evidence from similar studies under way in infected adults shows \nthat certain vaccines can boost existing HIV-specific immune responses and \n\nHICNet Medical Newsletter Page 47\nVolume 6, Number 10 April 20, 1993\n\nstimulate new ones. It will be several years, however, before researchers \nknow how these responses affect the clinical course of the disease. \n\nThe results from the pediatric trial, known as ACTG 218, will be examined \nclosely for other reasons as well. "This trial will provide the first insight \ninto how the immature immune system responds to candidate HIV vaccines," said \nDaniel Hoth, M.D., director of NIAID\'s division of AIDS. "We need this \ninformation to design trials to test whether experimental vaccines can prevent \nHIV infection in children." \n\nIn the United States, most HIV-infected children live in poor inner-city \nareas, and more than 80 percent are minorities, mainly black or Hispanic. \n\nNearly all HIV-infected children acquire the virus from their mothers during \npregnancy or at birth. An infected mother in the United States has more than \na one in four chance of transmitting the virus to her baby. As growing \nnumbers of women of childbearing age become exposed to HIV through injection \ndrug use or infected sexual partners, researchers expect a corresponding \nincrease in the numbers of infected children. \n\nHIV disease progresses more rapidly in infants and children than in adults. \nThe most recent information suggests that 50 percent of infants born with HIV \ndevelop a serious AIDS-related infection by 3 to 6 years of age. These \ninfections include severe or frequent bouts of common bacterial illnesses of \nchildhood that can result in seizures, pneumonia, diarrhea and other symptoms \nleading to nutritional problems and long hospital stays. \n\nAt least half of the children in the trial will be 2 years of age or younger \nto enable comparison of the immune responses of the younger and older \nparticipants. All volunteers must have well-documented HIV infection but no \nsymptoms of HIV disease other than swollen lymph glands or a mildly swollen \nliver or spleen. They cannot have received any anti-retroviral or immune-\nregulating drugs within one month prior to their entry into the study. \n\nStudy chair John S. Lambert, M.D., of the University of Rochester Medical \nSchool, and co- chair Samuel Katz, M.D., of Duke University School of \nMedicine, will coordinate the trial assisted by James McNamara, M.D., medical \nofficer in the pediatric medicine branch of NIAID\'s division of AIDS. \n\n"We will compare the safety of the vaccines by closely monitoring the children \nfor any side effects, to see if one vaccine produces more swollen arms or \nfevers, for example, than another," said Dr. McNamara. "We\'ll also look at \nwhether low or high doses of the vaccines stimulate immune responses or other \nsignificant laboratory or clinical effects." He emphasized that the small \nstudy size precludes comparing these responses or effects among the three \n\nHICNet Medical Newsletter Page 48\nVolume 6, Number 10 April 20, 1993\n\nproducts. \n\nThe trial will test two doses each of three experimental vaccines made from \nrecombinant HIV proteins. These so-called subunit vaccines, each genetically \nengineered to contain only a piece of the virus, have so far proved well-\ntolerated in ongoing trials in HIV-infected adults. \n\nOne vaccine made by MicroGeneSys Inc. of Meriden, Conn., contains gp160--a \nprotein that gives rise to HIV\'s surface proteins--plus alum adjuvant. \nAdjuvants boost specific immune responses to a vaccine. Presently, alum is \nthe only adjuvant used in human vaccines licensed by the Food and Drug \nAdministration. \n\nBoth of the other vaccines--one made by Genentech Inc. of South San Francisco \nand the other by Biocine, a joint venture of Chiron and CIBA-Geigy, in \nEmeryville, Calif.--contain the major HIV surface protein, gp120, plus \nadjuvant. The Genentech vaccine contains alum, while the Biocine vaccine \ncontains MF59, an experimental adjuvant that has proved safe and effective in \nother Phase I vaccine trials in adults. \n\nA low dose of each product will be tested first against a placebo in 15 \nchildren. Twelve children will be assigned at random to be immunized with the \nexperimental vaccine, and three children will be given adjuvant alone, \nconsidered the placebo. Neither the health care workers nor the children will \nbe told what they receive. \n\nIf the low dose is well-tolerated, controlled testing of a higher dose of the \nexperimental vaccine and adjuvant placebo in another group of 15 children will \nbegin. \n\nEach child will receive six immunizations--one every four weeks for six \nmonths--and be followed-up for 24 weeks after the last immunization. \n\nFor more information about the trial sites or eligibility for enrollment, call \nthe AIDS Clinical Trials Information Service, 1-800-TRIALS-A, from 9 a.m. to 7 \np.m., EST weekdays. The service has Spanish-speaking information specialists \navailable. Information on NIAID\'s pediatric HIV/AIDS research is available \nfrom the Office of Communications at (301) 496- 5717. \n\nNIH, CDC and FDA are agencies of the U.S. Public Health Service in HHS. For \npress inquiries only, please call Laurie K. Doepel at (301) 402-1663.\n\n\n\n\nHICNet Medical Newsletter Page 49\nVolume 6, Number 10 April 20, 1993\n\n NEW EVIDENCE THAT THE HIV CAN CAUSE DISEASE INDEPENDENTLY\n News from the National Institute of Dental Research\n\nThere is new evidence that the human immunodeficiency virus can cause disease \nindependently of its ability to suppress the immune system, say scientists at \nthe National Institues of Health. \n\nThey report that HIV itself, not an opportunistic infection, caused scaling \nskin conditions to develop in mice carrying the genes for HIV. Although the \nHIV genes were active in the mice, they did not compromise the animals\' \nimmunity, the researchers found. This led them to conclude that the HIV \nitself caused the skin disease. \n\nOur findings support a growing body of evidence that HIV can cause disease \nwithout affecting the immune system, said lead author Dr. Jeffrey Kopp of the \nNational Institute of Dental Research (NIDR). Dr. Kopp and his colleagues \ndescribed their study in the March issue of AIDS Research and Human \nRetroviruses. \n\nDeveloping animal models of HIV infection has been difficult, since most \nanimals, including mice, cannot be infected by the virus. To bypass this \nproblem, scientists have developed HIV-transgenic mice, which carry genes for \nHIV as well as their own genetic material. \n\nNIDR scientists created the transgenic mice by injecting HIV genes into mouse \neggs and then implanting the eggs into female mice. The resulting litters \ncontained both normal and transgenic animals. \n\nInstitute scientists had created mice that carried a complete copy of HIV \ngenetic material in l988. Those mice, however, became sick and died too soon \nafter birth to study in depth. In the present study, the scientists used an \nincomplete copy of HIV, which allowed the animals to live longer. \n\nSome of the transgenic animals developed scaling, wart-like tumors on their \nnecks and backs. Other transgenic mice developed thickened, crusting skin \nlesions that covered most of their bodies, resembling psoriasis in humans. No \nskin lesions developed in their normal, non-transgenic littermates. \n\nStudies of tissue taken from the wart-like skin tumors showed that they were a \ntype of noncancerous tumor called papilloma. Although the papillomavirus can \ncause these skin lesions, laboratory tests showed no sign of that virus in the \nanimals. \n\nTissue samples taken from the sick mice throughout the study revealed the \npresence of a protein-producing molecule made by the HIV genetic material. \n\nHICNet Medical Newsletter Page 50\nVolume 6, Number 10 April 20, 1993\n\nEvidence of HIV protein production proved that the viral genes were "turned \non," or active, said Dr. Kopp. \n\nThe scientists found no evidence, however, of compromised immunity in the \nmice: no increase in their white blood cell count and no signs of common \ninfections. The fact that HIV genes were active but the animals\' immune \nsystems were not suppressed confirms that the virus itself was causing the \nskin lesions, Dr. Kopp said. \n\nFurther proof of HIV gene involvement came from a test in which the scientists \nexposed the transgenic animals to ultraviolet light. The light increased HIV \ngenetic activity causing papillomas to develop on formerly healthy skin. \nPapilloma formation in response to increased HIV genetic activity proved the \ngenes were responsible for the skin condition, the scientists said. No \nlesions appeared on normal mice exposed to the UV light. \n\nThe transgenic mice used in this study were developed at NIDR by Dr. Peter \nDickie, who is now with the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious \nDiseases. \n\nCollaborating on the study with Dr. Kopp were Mr. Charles Wohlenberg, Drs. \nNickolas Dorfman, Joseph Bryant, Abner Notkins, and Paul Klotman, all of NIDR; \nDr. Stephen Katz of the National Cancer Institute; and Dr. James Rooney, \nformerly with NIDR and now with Burroughs Wellcome.\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\nHICNet Medical Newsletter Page 51\nVolume 6, Number 10 April 20, 1993\n\n Clinical Consultation Telephone Service for AIDS\n H H S N E W S\n ********************************************\n U.S. DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES\n\n March 4, 1993\n\n\n HHS Secretary Donna E. Shalala today announced the first nationwide \nclinical consultation telephone service for doctors and other health care \nprofessionals who have questions about providing care to people with HIV \ninfection or AIDS. \n The toll-free National HIV Telephone Consulting Service is staffed by a \nphysician, a nurse practitioner and a pharmacist. It provides information on \ndrugs, clinical trials and the latest treatment methods. The service is \nfunded by the Health Resources and Services Administration and operates out of \nSan Francisco General Hospital. \n Secretary Shalala said, "One goal of this project is to share expertise \nso patients get the best care. A second goal is to get more primary health \ncare providers involved in care for people with HIV or AIDS, which reduces \ntreatment cost by allowing patients to remain with their medical providers and \ncommunity social support networks. Currently, many providers refer patients \nwith HIV or AIDS to specialists or other providers who have more experience." \n Secretary Shalala said, "This clinical expertise should be especially \nhelpful for physicians and providers who treat people with HIV or AIDS in \ncommunities and clinical sites where HIV expertise is not readily available." \n The telephone number for health care professionals is 1-800-933-3413, and \nit is accessible from 10:30 a.m. to 8 p.m. EST (7:30 a.m. to 5 p.m. PST) \nMonday through Friday. During these times, consultants will try to answer \nquestions immediately, or within an hour. At other times, physicians and \nhealth care providers can leave an electronic message, and questions will be \nanswered as quickly as possible. \n Health care professionals may call the service to ask any question \nrelated to providing HIV care, including the latest HIV/AIDS drug treatment \ninformation, clinical trials information, subspecialty case referral, \nliterature searches and other information. The service is designed for health \ncare professionals rather than patients, families or others who have alternate \nsources of information or materials. \n When a health care professional calls the new service, the call is taken \nby either a clinical pharmacist, primary care physician or family nurse \npractitioner. All staff members have extensive experience in outpatient and \ninpatient primary care for people with HIV-related diseases. The consultant \nasks for patient-specific information, including CD4 cell count, current \nmedications, sex, age and the patient\'s HIV history. \n This national service has grown out of a 16-month local effort that \n\nHICNet Medical Newsletter Page 52\nVolume 6, Number 10 April 20, 1993\n\nresponded to nearly 1,000 calls from health care providers in northern \nCalifornia. The initial project was funded by HRSA\'s Bureau of Health \nProfessions, through its Community Provider AIDS Training (CPAT) project, and \nby the American Academy of Family Physicians. \n "When providers expand their knowledge, they also improve the quality of \ncare they are able to provide to their patients," said HRSA Administrator \nRobert G. Harmon. M.D., M.P.H. "This project will be a great resource for \nhealth care professionals and the HIV/AIDS patients they serve." \n "This service has opened a new means of communication between health care \nprofessionals and experts on HIV care management," said HRSA\'s associate \nadministrator for AIDS and director of the Bureau of Health Resources \nDevelopment, G. Stephen Bowen, M.D., M.P.H. "Providers who treat people with \nHIV or AIDS have access to the latest information on new drugs, treatment \nmethods and therapies for people with HIV or AIDS." \n HRSA is one of eight U.S. Public Health Service agencies within HHS. \n\n\n AIDS Hotline Numbers for Consumers\n\n CDC National AIDS Hotline -- 1-800-342-AIDS\n for information in Spanish - 1-800-344-SIDA\n AIDS Clinical Trials (English & Spanish) -- 1-800-TRIALS-A\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\nHICNet Medical Newsletter Page 53\n\x0c\n------------- cut here -----------------\n-- This is the last part ---------------\n\n---\n Internet: david@stat.com FAX: +1 (602) 451-1165\n Bitnet: ATW1H@ASUACAD FidoNet=> 1:114/15\n Amateur Packet ax25: wb7tpy@wb7tpy.az.usa.na\n',
'From: weaver@chdasic.sps.mot.com (Dave Weaver)\nSubject: Some questions from a new Christian\nLines: 18\n\nIn a previous article, 18669@bach.udel.edu (Steven R Hoskins) writes:\n> \n> One of my questions I would\n> like to ask is - Can anyone recommend a good reading list of theological\n> works intended for a lay person?\n> \n\nI would recommend "Essential Truthes of the Christian Faith" by RC Sproul.\nIt is copywrited 1992 from Tyndale House Publishers. Sproul offers concise \nexplanations, in simple language, of around 100 different Christian \ndoctrines, grouped by subject. I think it would be particularly good for\nnewer Christians (and older Christians suffering spiritual malnutrition),\nas it gives a Biblically sound basic treatment of the issues, avoiding \nlong in-depth analysis that can wait until after you know the basics. \n\n---\nDave Weaver | "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to\nweaver@chdasic.sps.mot.com| gain what he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot (1949)\n',
"From: livesey@solntze.wpd.sgi.com (Jon Livesey)\nSubject: Re: Jews can't hide from keith@cco.\nOrganization: sgi\nLines: 16\nNNTP-Posting-Host: solntze.wpd.sgi.com\n\nIn article <1993Apr3.153552.4334@mac.cc.macalstr.edu>, acooper@mac.cc.macalstr.edu writes:\n|> In article <1pint5$1l4@fido.asd.sgi.com>, livesey@solntze.wpd.sgi.com (Jon Livesey) writes\n>\n> Well, Germany was hardly the ONLY country to discriminate against the \n> Jews, although it has the worst reputation because it did the best job \n> of expressing a general European dislike of them. This should not turn \n> into a debate on antisemitism, but you should also point out that Luther's\n> antiSemitism was based on religious grounds, while Hitler's was on racial \n> grounds, and Wagnmer's on aesthetic grounds. Just blanketing the whole \n> group is poor analysis, even if they all are bigots.\n\nI find these to be intriguing remarks. Could you give us a bit\nmore explanation here? For example, which religion is anti-semitic,\nand which aesthetic?\n\njon.\n",
'From: rousseaua@immunex.com\nSubject: Re: Barbecued foods and health risk\nDistribution: world\nOrganization: Immunex Corporation, Seattle, WA\nLines: 19\n\nWhile in grad school, I remember a biochemistry friend of mine working with\n"heat shock proteins". Apparently, burning protein will induce changes in he\nDNA. Whether these changes survive the denaturing that occurs during digestion\nI don\'t know, but I never eat burnt food because of this. \n\nAlso, many woods contain toxins. As they are burnt, it would seem logical that\nsome may volatilise, and get into the BBQed food. Again, I don\'t know if these\ntoxins (antifungal and anti-woodeater compounds) would survive the rather harsh\nconditions of the stomach and intestine, and then would they be able to cross\nthe intestinal mucosa?\n\nMaybe someone with more biochemical background than myself (which is almost\n*anyone*... :)) can shed some light on heat shock proteins and the toxins that\nmay be in the wood used to make charcoal and BBQ.\n\nAnne-Marie Rousseau\ne-mail: rousseaua@immunex.com\nWhat I say has nothing to do with Immunex.\n\n',
'From: gt7122b@prism.gatech.edu (boundary, the catechist)\nSubject: Re: Am I going to Hell?\nOrganization: Georgia Institute of Technology\nLines: 45\n\nIn article <Apr.23.02.55.31.1993.3123@geneva.rutgers.edu> tbrent@ecn.purdue.edu (Timothy J Brent) writes:\n>I have stated before that I do not consider myself an atheist, but \n>definitely do not believe in the christian god. The recent discussion\n>about atheists and hell, combined with a post to another group (to the\n>effect of \'you will all go to hell\') has me interested in the consensus \n>as to how a god might judge men. As a catholic, I was told that a jew,\n>buddhist, etc. might go to heaven, but obviously some people do not\n>believe this. Even more see atheists and pagans (I assume I would be \n>lumped into this category) to be hellbound. I know you believe only\n>god can judge, and I do not ask you to, just for your opinions.\n\nDear Tim:\n\nYou say that you were a "catholic," but if you do not believe in the Christian\nGod (I suppose that means the God of the Bible) and publicly state this, \nyou are in all probability not a Roman Catholic. "Public heretics, even\nthose who err in good faith (material heretics), do not belong to the body\nof the Church" (Fundamentals of Catholic Dogma, 1960, Ludwig Ott, p. 311).\n\nAll is not lost, however, as you still might belong spiritually to the\nChurch by your desire to belong to it. As you said, only God can judge\nthe condition of a man\'s soul. About judgment, on the other hand, St. Paul \n1 Cor 5:12) urges Christians to judge their fellow Christians. \nFollowing the Apostle\'s teaching, I judge that you should reconsider \nreturning to the Christian fold and embrace the God of Abraham, Isaac,\nand Jacob. He is the God who lives. \n\nConcerning what you were told about non-believers when you were a catholic,\nthat is true. As I have posted before, Vatican II (Lumen Gentium, II, \nn. 16) teaches: "Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know\nthe Gospel of Christ or His Chruch, but who nevertheless seek God with a\nsincere heart, and moved by grace, try in their actions to do His will\nas they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may\nachieve eternal salvation." \n\nResponding to your solicitation for opinions on the thinking processes\nof God, the best I can do is refer you to Scripture. Scripture is one\nof the best sources for learning what can be known about God. \n\nStick with the best.\n-- \nboundary, the catechist \n\nno teneis que pensar que yo haya venido a traer la paz a la tierra; no he\nvenido a traer la paz, sino la guerra (Mateo 10:34, tr. esp. Vulgata Latina) \n',
'From: sandvik@newton.apple.com (Kent Sandvik)\nSubject: Re: Genocide is Caused by Atheism\nOrganization: Cookamunga Tourist Bureau\nLines: 27\n\nIn article <1qjfnv$ogt@horus.ap.mchp.sni.de>, frank@D012S658.uucp (Frank\nO\'Dwyer) wrote:\n> (1) Does the term "hero-worship" mean anything to you? \n\nYes, worshipping Jesus as the super-saver is indeed hero-worshipping\nof the grand scale. Worshipping Lenin that will make life pleasant\nfor the working people is, eh, somehow similar, or what.\n \n> (2) I understand that gods are defined to be supernatural, not merely\n> superhuman.\nThe notion of Lenin was on the borderline of supernatural insights\ninto how to change the world, he wasn\'t a communist God, but he was\nthe man who gave presents to kids during Christmas.\n \n> #Actually, I agree. Things are always relative, and you can\'t have \n> #a direct mapping between a movement and a cause. However, the notion\n> #that communist Russia was somewhat the typical atheist country is \n> #only something that Robertson, Tilton et rest would believe in.\n> \n> Those atheists were not True Unbelievers, huh? :-)\n\nDon\'t know what they were, but they were fanatics indeed.\n\nCheers,\nKent\n---\nsandvik@newton.apple.com. ALink: KSAND -- Private activities on the net.\n',
'From: bcash@crchh410.NoSubdomain.NoDomain (Brian Cash)\nSubject: Re: New Member\nNntp-Posting-Host: crchh410\nOrganization: BNR, Inc.\nLines: 47\n\nIn article <C5HIEw.7s1@portal.hq.videocart.com>, dfuller@portal.hq.videocart.com (Dave Fuller) writes:\n|> Hello. I just started reading this group today, and I think I am going\n|> to be a large participant in its daily postings. I liked the section of\n|> the FAQ about constructing logical arguments - well done. I am an atheist,\n|> but I do not try to turn other people into atheists. I only try to figure\n|> why people believe the way they do - I don\'t much care if they have a \n|> different view than I do. When it comes down to it . . . I could be wrong.\n|> I am willing to admit the possibility - something religious followers \n|> dont seem to have the capability to do.\n\nWelcome aboard!\n\n|> \n|> I notice alot of posts from Bobby. Why does anybody ever respond to \n|> his posts ? He always falls back on the same argument:\n\n(I think you just answered your own question, there)\n\n|> \n|> "If the religion is followed it will cause no bad"\n|> \n|> He is right. Just because an event was explained by a human to have been\n|> done "in the name of religion", does not mean that it actually followed\n|> the religion. He will always point to the "ideal" and say that it wasn\'t\n|> followed so it can\'t be the reason for the event. There really is no way\n|> to argue with him, so why bother. Sure, you may get upset because his \n|> answer is blind and not supported factually - but he will win every time\n|> with his little argument. I don\'t think there will be any postings from\n|> me in direct response to one of his.\n\nMost responses were against his postings that spouted the fact that\nall atheists are fools/evil for not seeing how peachy Islam is.\nI would leave the pro/con arguments of Islam to Fred Rice, who is more\nlevel headed and seems to know more on the subject, anyway.\n\n|> \n|> Happy to be aboard !\n\nHow did you know I was going to welcome you abord?!?\n\n|> \n|> Dave Fuller\n|> dfuller@portal.hq.videocart.com\n|> \n|> \n\nBrian /-|-\\\n',
'From: edm@twisto.compaq.com (Ed McCreary)\nSubject: Re: Victims of various \'Good Fight\'s\nIn-Reply-To: 9051467f@levels.unisa.edu.au\'s message of 12 Apr 93 21: 36:33 +0930\nOrganization: Compaq Computer Corp\n\t<9454@tekig7.PEN.TEK.COM> <1993Apr12.213633.20143@levels.unisa.edu.au>\nLines: 12\n\n>>>>> On 12 Apr 93 21:36:33 +0930, 9051467f@levels.unisa.edu.au (The Desert Brat) said:\n\nTDB> 12. Disease introduced to Brazilian * oher S.Am. tribes: x million\n\nTo be fair, this was going to happen eventually. Given time, the Americans\nwould have reached Europe on their own and the same thing would have \nhappened. It was just a matter of who got together first.\n\n--\nEd McCreary ,__o\nedm@twisto.compaq.com _-\\_<, \n"If it were not for laughter, there would be no Tao." (*)/\'(*)\n',
'From: jodfishe@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (joseph dale fisher)\nSubject: Re: Cell Church discussion group\nOrganization: Indiana University\nLines: 7\n\nIn article <Apr.21.03.25.58.1993.1337@geneva.rutgers.edu> reid@cs.uiuc.edu (Jon Reid) writes:\n>I am beginning an e-mail discussion group about cell churches. If you are\n\nPlease, define cell church. I missed it somewhere in the past when this\nwas brought up before.\n\nJoe Fisher\n',
'From: kxgst1+@pitt.edu (Kenneth Gilbert)\nSubject: Re: REQUEST: Gyro (souvlaki) sauce\nOrganization: University of Pittsburgh\nLines: 19\n\nIn article <1r8pcn$rm1@terminator.rs.itd.umich.edu> Donald_Mackie@med.umich.edu (Donald Mackie) writes:\n:In article <1993Apr22.205341.172965@locus.com> Michael Trofimoff,\n:tron@fafnir.la.locus.com writes:\n:>Would anyone out there in \'net-land\' happen to have an\n:>authentic, sure-fire way of making this great sauce that\n:>is used to adorn Gyro\'s and Souvlaki?\n:\n:I\'m not sure of the exact recipe, but I\'m sure acidophilus is one of\n:the major ingredients. :-)\n:\n\nThe only recipies I\'ve ever seen for this include plain yogurt, finely\nchopped cucumber and a couple of crushed cloves of garlic -- yummy.\n\n-- \n=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-|-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=\n= Kenneth Gilbert __|__ University of Pittsburgh =\n= General Internal Medicine | "...dammit, not a programmer!" =\n=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-|-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=\n',
'From: mserv@mozart.cc.iup.edu (Mail Server)\nSubject: Re: phone number of wycliffe translators UK\nLines: 37\n\n> I\'m concerned about a recent posting about WBT/SIL. I thought they\'d\n>pretty much been denounced as a right-wing organization involved in\n>ideological manipulation and cultural interference, including Vietnam\n>and South America. A commission from Mexican Academia denounced them in\n>1979 as " a covert political and ideological institution used by the\n>U.S. govt as an instrument of control, regulation, penetration, espionage and\n>repression."\n> My concern is that this group may be seen as acceptable and even\n>praiseworthy by readers of soc.religion.christian. It\'s important that\n>Christians don\'t immediately accept every "Christian" organization as\n>automatically above reproach.\n> \n> mp\n\nGood heavens, you mean my good friend Wes Collins, who took his wife and two \nsmall children into the jungles of Guatemala, despite dangers from primitive \nconditions and armed guerillas, so that the indigenous people groups their \ncould have the Bible in their native languages--the young man who led Bible \nstudies in our church, who daily demonstrated and declared his deep abiding \nfaith in the Lord of Love--you mean he really was a sneaky imperialistic *SPY* \nwhose _real_ reason for going was to exploit and oppress the ignorant and \nunsuspecting masses? Imagine my surprise! I never would have thought it of \nhim.\n\nHow was this terrible deceit discovered? What exactly was the "cultural \ninterference" they were caught committing? Attempting to persuade the locals \nthat their ancestral gods were false gods, and their sacrifices (including \nhuman sacrifices in some cases) were vain? Destroying traditional lifestyles \nby introducing steel tools, medical vaccines, and durable clothes? Oh and by \nthe way, who did the denouncing?\n\nI am terribly shocked to hear that my friend Wes, who seemed so nice, was \nreally such a deceitful tool of the devil. Please provide me with specific \ndocumentation on this charge. There is some risk that I may not believe it \notherwise.\n\n- Mark\n',
'From: geb@cs.pitt.edu (Gordon Banks)\nSubject: Re: "Brain abscess" definition needed\nReply-To: geb@cs.pitt.edu (Gordon Banks)\nOrganization: Univ. of Pittsburgh Computer Science\nLines: 16\n\nIn article <1993Apr8.123213.1@tardis.mdcorp.ksc.nasa.gov> fresa@tardis.mdcorp.ksc.nasa.gov writes:\n>Could someone please define a "brain abscess" for me? A relative has one near\n>his cerebellum.\n\n\nA brain abscess is an infection deep in the brain substance. It is\nhard to cure with antibiotics, since it gets walled off, and usually,\nit needs surgical drainage.\n\n\n\n-- \n----------------------------------------------------------------------------\nGordon Banks N3JXP | "Skepticism is the chastity of the intellect, and\ngeb@cadre.dsl.pitt.edu | it is shameful to surrender it too soon." \n----------------------------------------------------------------------------\n',
'From: wcsbeau@alfred.carleton.ca (OPIRG)\nSubject: Re: Is MSG sensitivity superstition?\nKeywords: MSG, Glu\nOrganization: Carleton University, Ottawa, Canada\nLines: 143\n\nIn article <1993Apr17.202011.21443@spdcc.com> dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer) writes:\n>In article <1993Apr17.184435.19725@cunews.carleton.ca> wcsbeau@alfred.carleton.ca (OPIRG) writes:\n>\n>There has been NO hard info provided about MSG making people ill.\n>That\'s the point, after all.\n\nWhy don\'t you just look it up in the Merk? Or check out the medical dictionary\ncite which a doctor mentioned earlier in this thread?\n\n\n>\n>That\'s because these "peer-reviewed" studies are not addressing\n>the effects of MSG in people, they\'re looking at animal models.\n>You can\'t walk away from this and start ranting about gloom and\n>doom as if there were any documented deleterious health effects\n>demonstrated in humans. Note that I wouldn\'t have any argument\n>with a statement like "noting that animal administration has pro-\n>duced the following [blah, blah], we must be careful about its\n>use in humans." This is precisely NOT what you said.\n\nAmong others, see Olney\'s "Excitotoxic Food Aditives - Relevance of\nAnimal Studies to Human Safety" (1982) Neurobehav. Toxicol. Teratol.\nvol 6: 455-462.\n\nI\'m sure PETA would love to hear your arguments.\n\n>>Tests have been done on Rhesus monkeys, as well. I have never seen a\n>>study where the mode of administration was intra-ventricular. The Glu\n>>and Asp were administered orally. Some studies used IV and SC.\n>>Intra-ventricular is not a normal admin. method for food tox. studies,\n>>for obvious reasons. You must not have read the peer-reviewed works\n>>that I referred to or you would never have come up with this brain\n>>injection bunk.\n>\n>It most certainly is for neurotoxicology. You know, studies of\n>glutamate involve more than "food science".\n\nWhose talking about "food science"? What is this comment supposed to\nmean? *Neurotoxicology and Tratology*, *Brain Research*, *Nature*,\n*Progress in Brain Research*: all fine food science journals. ;-)\n\n>>Pardon me, but where are you getting this from? Have you read the\n>>journals? Have you done a thorough literature search?\n>\n>So, point us to the studies in humans, please. I\'m familiar with\n>the literature, and I\'ve never seen any which relate at all to\n>Olney\'s work in animals and the effects of glutamate on neurons.\n\nThen you would know that Olney himself has casually referred to\n"Chinese Restaurant Syndrome" in a few articles. Why don\'t *you* point\nus to some studies? Maybe then this exchange could be productive.\n\n>>The point is exceeding the window. Of course, they\'re amino acids.\n>>Note that people with PKU cannot tolerate any phenylalanine.\n>\n>Well, actually, they HAVE to tolerate some phenylalanine; it\'s a\n>essential amino acid. They just try to get as little as is healthy\n>without producing dangerous levels of phenylalanine and its metabolites\n>in the blood.\n\nThey\'re unable to metabolise it.\n\n>>Olney\'s research compared infant human diets. Specifically, the amount\n>>of freely available Glu in mother\'s milk versus commercial baby foods,\n>>vs. typical lunch items from the Standard American Diet such as packaged\n>>soup mixes. He found that one could exceed the projected safety margin\n>>for infant humans by at least four-fold in a single meal of processed\n>>foods. Mother\'s milk was well below the effective dose.\n>\n>Goodness, I\'m not saying that it\'s good to feed infants a lot of\n>glutamate-supplemented foods. It\'s just that this "projected safety\n>margin" is a construct derived from animal models and given that,\n>you can "prove" anything you like. We\'re talking prudent policy in\n>infant nutrition here, yet you\'re misrepresenting it as received wisdom.\n\nWho said anything about \'received wisdom\'? There is no question that\norally administered doses of MSG are capable of destroying nearly all\nneurons in the arcuate nucleus of the hypothalamus and the median\neminence. These areas are responsible for the production of\nhormones critical to normal neuroendocrine function and the normal\ndevelopment of the vertabrate organism. Humans are vertebrates. Now\nwhat, pray tell, do you think will happen when the area of the brain\nnecessary for the normal rhythm of gonadotropin release is missing?\nAre you trying to say that humans have no need of their pituitary,\nANH, and ME, of that part of the brain that is responsible for\ncontrolling the realease (albeit indirectly) of estradiol and testosterone? \n\nHow do you expect anyone to do the studies on this? It\'s unethical to\n"sacrifice" humans to check out what effects chronic, acute, etc doses\nof these compounds are having on the brain tissue in humans. The food\nindustry knows this. That\'s why the animal model is used in medicine\nand psych. If you\'re talking about straight sensitivity, it would be\nuseful to define the term. There are plenty of studies on\npsychoneuroimmunology showing the link between attitude and\nphysiology.\n\nI suspect we may be arguing about separate things; *only* adult sensitivities\n(You), and late-occuring sequelae of childhood ingestion and its\nimplication for adults (me). Certainly\nthe doses for excitotoxicity in adults are considerably larger than\nfor the young, but the additivity of Glu and Asp, and their copious\nand increased presence in modern processed foods (jointly), and their\nhidden presence in HVP, necessitates extreme caution. Why would anyone\nwant to eat compounds which have been shown to markedly perturb the\nendocrine system in adults? The main point is *blood levels*\nattained, and oral doses would likely have to be greater than SC. \n\n>>Between who? Over what? I would be most interested in seeing you\n>>provide peer-reviewed non-food-industry-funded citations to articles\n>>disputing that MSG has no effects whatsoever. \n>\n>You mean "asserting". You\'re being intellectually dishonest (or just\n>plain confused), because you\'re conflating reports which do not necessarily\n>have anything to do with each other. Olney\'s reports would argue a potential\n>for problems in human infants, but that\'s not to say that this says anything\n>whatsoever about the use of MSG in most foods, nor does he provide any\n>studies in humans which indicate any deleterious effects (for obvious\n>reasons.) It says nothing about MSG\'s contribtion to the phenomenon\n>of the "Chinese Restaurant Syndrome". It says nothing about the frequent\n>inability to replicate anecdotal reports of MSG sensitivity in the lab.\n\nOlney\'s work provides a putative causal mechanism for some\nsensitivities. Terry, Epelbaum and Martin have shown that orally\nadministered MSG causes changes in normal gonadotropic hormone\nfluctutations in adults. Glu also was found to induce immediate and persistant\nsupression of rhythmic GH secretion, and to induce rapid and transient\nrelease of prolactin in adults chronically exposed to MSG. GH is\nresponsible not only for control of growth during development, but\nalso converts glycogen into glucose. Could this be the cause of\nheadaches? I don\'t know.\n\n>>>dyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com \n>>Hmm. ".com". Why am I not surprised?\n>>- Dianne Murray wcsbeau@ccs.carleton.ca\n>\n>Probably one of the dumber remarks you\'ve made.\n\nIf you had read Olney\'s review article, especially the remarks I\nalready quoted in an earlier post, you would know to what I was\nalluding. May I ask exactly for whom you do computer consulting? :-)\n\n',
'From: jim.zisfein@factory.com (Jim Zisfein) \nSubject: Re: Could this be a migraine?\nDistribution: world\nOrganization: Invention Factory\'s BBS - New York City, NY - 212-274-8298v.32bis\nReply-To: jim.zisfein@factory.com (Jim Zisfein) \nLines: 31\n\nGB> From: geb@cs.pitt.edu (Gordon Banks)\nGB> >(I am excepting migraine, which is arguably neurologic).\nGB> I hope you meant "inarguably".\n\nGiven the choice, I would rather argue <g>.\n\nNo arguments about migranous aura; in fact, current best evidence is\nthat aura is intrinsicially neuronal (a la spreading depression of\nLeao) rather than vascular (something causing vasoconstriction and\nsecondary neuronal ischemia).\n\nMigraine without aura, however, is a fuzzier issue. There do not\nseem to be objectively measurable changes in brain function. The\nCopenhagen mafia (Lauritzen, Olesen, et al) have done local CBF\nstudies on migraine without aura, and (unlike migraine with aura,\nbut like tension-type) they found no changes in LCBF.\n\nFrom one (absurd) perspective, *all* pain is neurologic, because in\nthe absence of a nervous system, there would not be pain. From\nanother (tautologic) perspective, any disease is in the domain of\nthe specialty that treats it. Neurologists treat headache,\ntherefore (at least in the USA) headache is neurologic.\n\nWhether neurologic or not, nobody would disagree that disabling\nheadaches are common. Perhaps my fee-for-service neurologic\ncolleagues, scrounging for cases, want all the headache patients\nthey can get. Working on a salary, however, I would rather not fill\nmy office with patients holding their heads in pain.\n---\n . SLMR 2.1 . E-mail: jim.zisfein@factory.com (Jim Zisfein)\n \n',
"Subject: Re: Trying to view POV files.....\nFrom: dane@nermal.santarosa.edu (Dane Jasper)\nOrganization: Santa Rosa Junior College, Santa Rosa, CA\nNntp-Posting-Host: nermal.santarosa.edu\nX-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]\nLines: 15\n\nEdward d Nobles (ednobles@sacam.OREN.ORTN.EDU) wrote:\n\n: I've been trying to view .tga files created in POVRAY. I have the Diamond\n: SpeedStar 24 Video board (not the _24X_). So far I can convert them to\n: jpeg using cjpeg and view them with CVIEW but that only displays 8 bit color.\n..\n: Just want to see the darn things in real color...\n\nI have an ATI ultra pro card, and have found that the easiest way to view\ntrue color images is using their windows drivers and something like winjpeg\nor photofinish. \n\nIf anyone has a non-windows solution, I'd love to hear it!\n\nDane\n",
"From: db7n+@andrew.cmu.edu (D. Andrew Byler)\nSubject: Re: Question about Virgin Mary\nOrganization: Freshman, Civil Engineering, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA\nLines: 28\n\n>As the moderator noted, I think you mean the Assumption. Catholics\n>believe that the Blessed Virgin Mary went to Heaven body *and* soul at\n>the end of her life. This is unusual because the normal course of\n>events is for your body to decay in the grave and stay that way until\n>the Resurrection of the Dead.\n\nWell, it wasn't that way for Enoch and Elijah, both of whom were\ntranslated directly into heaven. It's beyond my grasp why some object\nthat Mary, who was far greater than either Enoch or Elijah, should not\nbenefit from the same privelege they recieved. She was after all,\nMother of God, full of grace, and immaculate.\n\n>Historically, belief in the Assumption can be found in the writings of\n>St. Gregory of Tours (late 6th century).\n\nAnd in St. Germain of Constantinople and St. John of Damascus, and in\nSt. Andrew of Crete, among others.\n\nAnd it should be noted that the Monophysite Chruches of Egypt and Syria\nalso hold to this belief as part of divine revelation, even though they\nbroke away from the unity of the Chruch in 451 AD by rejecting the\nCouncil of Chalcedon. It might be argued by some Protestants that the\nCatholics and Orthodox made this belief up, but the Monophysites, put a\nbig hole in that notion, as they also hold the belief, and they split\nfrom the Chruch before the belief was first annunciated in writing (as\nfar as is known, much has been lost from the time of the Fathers).\n\nAndy Byler\n",
'From: hrubin@pop.stat.purdue.edu (Herman Rubin)\nSubject: Re: Science and Methodology\nOrganization: Purdue University Statistics Department\nDistribution: inet\nLines: 28\n\nIn article <1qk92lINNl55@im4u.cs.utexas.edu> turpin@cs.utexas.edu (Russell Turpin) writes:\n\n>In article <C5I2Bo.CG9@news.Hawaii.Edu> lady@uhunix.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu (Lee Lady) writes:\n>> The difference between a Nobel Prize level scientist and a mediocre\n>> scientist does not lie in the quality of their empirical methodology. \n>> It depends on the quality of their THINKING. \n\n\t\t\t....................\n\n>Lee Lady is correct when she asserts that the difference between\n>Einstein and the average post-doc physicist is the quality of\n>their thought. But what is the difference between Einstein and a\n>genius who would be a great scientist but whose great thoughts\n>are scientifically screwy?\n\nThis example is probably wrong. There is the case of one famous\nphysicist telling another that he was probably wrong. As I recall\nthe quote:\n\n\tYour ideas are crazy, to be sure. But they are not crazy\n\tenough to be right.\n\nThe typical screwball is only somewhat screwy.\n-- \nHerman Rubin, Dept. of Statistics, Purdue Univ., West Lafayette IN47907-1399\nPhone: (317)494-6054\nhrubin@snap.stat.purdue.edu (Internet, bitnet) \n{purdue,pur-ee}!snap.stat!hrubin(UUCP)\n',
'From: keith@cco.caltech.edu (Keith Allan Schneider)\nSubject: Re: <Political Atheists?\nOrganization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena\nLines: 13\nNNTP-Posting-Host: punisher.caltech.edu\n\nlivesey@solntze.wpd.sgi.com (Jon Livesey) writes:\n\n>>Well, chimps must have some system. They live in social groups\n>>as we do, so they must have some "laws" dictating undesired behavior.\n>So, why "must" they have such laws?\n\nThe quotation marks should enclose "laws," not "must."\n\nIf there were no such rules, even instinctive ones or unwritten ones,\netc., then surely some sort of random chance would lead a chimp society\ninto chaos.\n\nkeith\n',
'From: geb@cs.pitt.edu (Gordon Banks)\nSubject: Re: High Prolactin\nReply-To: geb@cs.pitt.edu (Gordon Banks)\nOrganization: Univ. of Pittsburgh Computer Science\nLines: 12\n\nIn article <93088.112203JER4@psuvm.psu.edu> JER4@psuvm.psu.edu (John E. Rodway) writes:\n>Any comments on the use of the drug Parlodel for high prolactin in the blood?\n>\n\nIt can suppress secretion of prolactin. Is useful in cases of galactorrhea.\nSome adenomas of the pituitary secret too much.\n\n-- \n----------------------------------------------------------------------------\nGordon Banks N3JXP | "Skepticism is the chastity of the intellect, and\ngeb@cadre.dsl.pitt.edu | it is shameful to surrender it too soon." \n----------------------------------------------------------------------------\n',
'From: lady@uhunix.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu (Lee Lady)\nSubject: Re: Science and methodology (was: Homeopathy ... tradition?)\nSummary: Is subjective judgement more reliable than statistics? \nOrganization: University of Hawaii (Mathematics Dept)\nExpires: Mon, 10 May 1993 10:00:00 GMT\nLines: 76\n\nIn article <ls8lnvINNrtb@saltillo.cs.utexas.edu> turpin@cs.utexas.edu \n (Russell Turpin) writes:\n> ... \n>*not* imply that all their treatments are ineffective. It *does*\n>imply that those who rely on faulty methodology and reasoning are\n>incapable of discovering *which* treatments are effective and\n>which are not.)\n\nTo start with, no methodology or form of reasoning is infallible. So\nthere\'s a question of how much certainty we are willing to pay for in a\ngiven context. Insistence on too much rigor bogs science down completely\nand makes progress impossible. (Expenditure of sufficiently large sums\nof money and amounts of time can sometimes overcome this.) On the other\nhand, with too little rigor much is lost by basing work on results which\neventually turn out to be false. There is a morass of studies\ncontradicting other studies and outsiders start saying "You people call\nTHIS science?" (My opinion, for what it\'s worth, is that one sees both\nthese phenomena happening simultaneously in some parts of psychology.) \n\nSome subjective judgement is required to decide on the level of rigor\nappropriate for a particular investigation. I don\'t believe it is \never possible to banish subjective judgement from science. \n\n\nMy second point, though, is that highly capable people can often make\nextremely reliable judgements about scientific validity even when using\nmethodology considered inadequate by the usual standards. I think this\nis true of many scientists and I think it is true of many who approach\ntheir discipline in a way that is not generally recognized as scientific.\n\nWithin mathematics, I think there are several examples, especially before\nthe twentieth century. One conspicuous case is that of Riemann, who is\nfamous for many theorems he stated but did not prove. (Later \nmathematicians did prove them, of course.) \n\nI think that for a good scientist, empirical investigation is often not\nso much a matter of determining what is true and what\'s not as it is a \nmatter of convincing other people. (People have proposed lots of \nincompatible definitions of science here, but I think the ability to \nobjectively convince others of the validity of one\'s results is an\nessential element. Not that one can necessarily do that at every step \nof the scientific process, but I think that if one is not moving toward \nthat goal then one is not doing science.)\n\nWhen a person other than a scientist is quite good at what he does and\nseems to be very successful at it, I think that his judgements are also\nworthy of respect and that his assertions are well worth further\ninvestigation. \n\nIn article <C53By5.HD@news.Hawaii.Edu> I wrote: \n> Namely, is there really justification for the belief that\n> science is a superior path to truth than non-scientific approaches? \n\nAdmittedly, my question was not at all well posed. A considerable\namount of effort in a "serious scholarly investigation" such as I\nsuggested would be required simply to formulate an appropriately \nspecific question to try and answer. \n\nThe "science" I was thinking of in my question is the actual science \ncurrently practiced now in the last decade of the twentieth century. \nI certainly wasn\'t thinking of some idealized science or the mere use \nof "reason and observation."\n\nOne thing I had in mind in my suggestion was the question as to whether\nin many cases the subjective judgements of skilled and experienced\npractitioners might be more reliable than statistical studies. \n\nSince Russell Turpin seems to be much more familiar than I am with\nthe study of scientific methodology, perhaps he can tell us if there \nis any existing research related to this question. \n\n--\nIn the arguments between behaviorists and cognitivists, psychology seems \nless like a science than a collection of competing religious sects. \n\nlady@uhunix.uhcc.hawaii.edu lady@uhunix.bitnet\n',
"From: bryanw@rahul.net (Bryan Woodworth)\nSubject: Re: CView answers\nOrganization: a2i network\nLines: 13\nNntp-Posting-Host: bolero\n\nIn <1993Apr17.113223.12092@imag.fr> schaefer@imag.imag.fr (Arno Schaefer) writes:\n\n>Sorry, Bryan, this is not quite correct. Remember the VGALIB package that comes\n>with Linux/SLS? It will switch to VGA 320x200x256 mode *without* Xwindows.\n>So at least it is *possible* to write a GIF viewer under Linux. However I don't\n>think that there exists a similar SVGA package, and viewing GIFs in 320x200 is\n>not very nice.\n\nNo, VGALIB? Amazing.. I guess it was lost in all those subdirs :-)\nThanks for correcting me. It doesn't sound very appealing though, only\n320x200? I'm glad it wasn't something major I missed.\n\nThanks,\n",
"From: rytg7@fel.tno.nl (Q. van Rijt)\nSubject: Re: Sphere from 4 points?\nOrganization: TNO Physics and Electronics Laboratory\nLines: 26\n\nThere is another useful method based on Least Sqyares Estimation of the sphere equation parameters.\n\nThe points (x,y,z) on a spherical surface with radius R and center (a,b,c) can be written as \n\n (x-a)^2 + (y-b)^2 + (z-c)^2 = R^2\n\nThis equation can be rewritten into the following form: \n\n 2ax + 2by + 2cz + R^2 - a^2 - b^2 -c^2 = x^2 + y^2 + z^2\n\nApproximate the left hand part by F(x,y,z) = p1.x + p2.x + p3.z + p4.1\n\nFor all datapoints, i.c. 4, determine the 4 parameters p1..p4 which minimise the average error |F(x,y,z) - x^2 - y^2 - z^2|^2.\n\nIn 'Numerical Recipes in C' can be found algorithms to solve these parameters.\n\nThe best fitting sphere will have \n- center (a,b,c) = (p1/2, p2/2, p3/2)\n- radius R = sqrt(p4 + a.a + b.b + c.c).\n\nSo, at last, will this solve you sphere estination problem, at least for the most situations I think ?.\n\nQuick van Rijt, rytg7@fel.tno.nl\n\n\n\n",
"From: todamhyp@charles.unlv.edu (Brian M. Huey)\nSubject: Krillean Photography\nOriginator: todamhyp@charles.cs.unlv.edu\nOrganization: University of Nevada at Las Vegas, College of Engineering\nLines: 20\n\nI think that's the correct spelling..\n\tI am looking for any information/supplies that will allow\ndo-it-yourselfers to take Krillean Pictures. I'm thinking\nthat education suppliers for schools might have a appartus for\nsale, but I don't know any of the companies. Any info is greatly\nappreciated.\n\tIn case you don't know, Krillean Photography, to the best of my\nknowledge, involves taking pictures of an (most of the time) organic\nobject between charged plates. The picture will show energy patterns\nor spikes around the object photographed, and depending on what type\nof object it is, the spikes or energy patterns will vary. One might\nextrapolate here and say that this proves that every object within\nthe universe (as we know it) has its own energy signature.\n\n\n-- \n_\x08D_\x08I_\x08S_\x08C_\x08L_\x08A_\x08I_\x08M_\x08E_\x08R_\x08: I can neither confirm nor deny any opinions\nexpressed in this article directly reflect my own personal or\npolitical views and furthermore, if they did, I would not be at\nliberty to yield such an explanation of these alleged opinions.\n",
'From: ab4z@virginia.edu (Andi Beyer)\nSubject: Translations\nOrganization: University of Virginia\nLines: 2\n\nWhich Version of the Bible do you consider to be the most\naccurate translation?\n',
'From: mcovingt@aisun3.ai.uga.edu (Michael Covington)\nSubject: Re: Easter: what\'s in a name? (was Re: New Testament Double Standard?\nOrganization: AI Programs, University of Georgia, Athens\nLines: 31\n\n(MODERATOR: THIS IS A REPLACEMENT FOR AN EARLIER, MORE CLUMSILY WORDED\nSUBMISSION ON THE SAME TOPIC WHICH I SUBMITTED A FEW MINUTES AGO.)\n\nI think we need to distinguish etymology from meaning. Regardless of\nhow the word \'Easter\' *originated*, the fact is that it does not *now*\nmean anything to Christians other than \'the feast day of the Resurrection\nof Jesus Christ\'. \n\nThe meaning of a word is _only_ what people understand it to mean.\n\nAnd the same goes for other cultural practices. The festival of Easter\nmay possibly have some historical association with some pagan festival,\nbut *today* there are, as far as I know, no Christians who *intend* to\nhonor any kind of "pagan goddess" by celebrating Easter.\n\nIt is nonsense to say "this word (or this practice) \'really\' means so-\nand-so even though nobody realizes it." Words and practices don\'t mean\nthings, people do. \n\n(This is basic semantics; I\'m a linguist; they pay me to think about\nthings like this.)\n-- \n:- Michael A. Covington, Associate Research Scientist : *****\n:- Artificial Intelligence Programs mcovingt@ai.uga.edu : *********\n:- The University of Georgia phone 706 542-0358 : * * *\n:- Athens, Georgia 30602-7415 U.S.A. amateur radio N4TMI : ** *** ** <><\n\n[Further, Easter is specific to English. In many other languages,\nthe word used is based on Passover or resurrection. Is it OK to\ncelebrate it in countries using those languages, but not in those\nusing English? --clh]\n',
"From: lindae@netcom.com\nSubject: Friend Needs Advice...\nOrganization: Netcom Online Communications Services (408-241-9760 login: guest)\nLines: 38\n\n\nA friend of mine is having some symptoms and has asked me to post\nthe following information.\n\nA few weeks ago, she noticed that some of her hair was starting\nto fall out. She would touch her head and strands of hair would\njust fall right out. (by the way, she is 29 or 30 years old). \nIt continued to occur until she had a bald spot about the\nsize of a half dollar. Since that time, she has gotten two\nmore bald spots of the same size. Other symptoms she's\ndescribed include: several months of an irregular menstrual\ncycle (which is strange for her, because she has always been\nextremely regular); laryngitis every few days -- she will wake\nup one morning and have almost no voice, and then the next day\nit's fine; dizzy spells -- she claims that she's had 4 or 5\nvery bad dizzy spells early in the morning, including one that\nknocked her to the ground; and general fatigue.\n\nShe went to a dermatologist first who couldn't find any reason\nfor the symptoms and sent her to an internist who suspected\nthyroid problems. He did the blood work and claims that everything\ncame back normal. \n\nShe's very concerned and very confused. Does anyone have any\nideas or suggestions? I told her that I thought she should\nsee an endocrinologist. Does that sound like the right idea?\n\n** By the way, in case you are going to ask...no, she has recently\ntaken any medications that would cause these symptoms...no, she hasn't\nrecently changed her hair products and she hasn't gotten a perm, \ncoloring, or other chemical process that might cause hair to fall\nout.\n\nThanks in advance for any help!\n\n\n\n\n",
'From: 880506s@dragon.acadiau.ca (James R. Skinner)\nSubject: Re: Paxil (request)\nOrganization: Acadia University\nLines: 15\n\n880506s@dragon.acadiau.ca (James R. Skinner) writes:\n\n>\t\n>\tI have seen a couple of postings refering to an SRI called paxil. I\n>have been on Prozac for a number of years and recently switched to Zolf. I\n>have seen a bit of comparsion of Prozac to Paxil but none on Zolft to Prozac\n>Can some one enlight me on the differences/ side effect profile/ etc...\n\ndoes anyone know?\n\n-- \n\n-----------------------------------+--------------------------------------------\n James Robie Skinner | Jodrey School of Computer Science James.Skinner@dragon.acadiau.ca | Acadia University, Wolfville, NS, Canada\n-----------------------------------+--------------------------------------------\n',
'From: lfoard@hopper.virginia.edu (Lawrence C. Foard)\nSubject: Re: Assurance of Hell\nOrganization: ITC/UVA Community Access UNIX/Internet Project\nLines: 43\n\nIn article <Apr.20.03.01.19.1993.3755@geneva.rutgers.edu> REXLEX@fnal.fnal.gov writes:\n>\n>I dreamed that the great judgment morning had dawned,\n> and the trumpet had blown.\n>I dreamed that the sinners had gathered for judgment\n> before the white throne.\n>Oh what weeping and wailing as the lost were told of their fate.\n>They cried for the rock and the mountains.\n>They prayed, but their prayers were too late.\n>The soul that had put off salvation, \n>"Not tonight I\'ll get saved by and by.\n> No time now to think of ....... religion," \n>Alas, he had found time to die.\n>And I saw a Great White Throne.\n\nIf I believed in the God of the bible I would be very fearful of making\nthis statement. Doesn\'t it say those who judge will be judged by the\nsame measure? \n\n>Now, some have protest by saying that the fear of hell is not good for\n>motivation, yet Jesus thought it was. Paul thought it was. Paul said, \n>"Knowing therefore, the terror of the Lord, we persuade men."\n\nA God who must motivate through fear is not a God worthy of worship.\nIf the God Jesus spoke of did indeed exist he would not need hell to\nconvince people to worship him.\n\n>Today, too much of our evangelism is nothing but soft soap and some of\n>it is nothing but evangelical salesmanship. We don\'t tell people anymore, that\n>there\'s such a thing as sin or that there\'s such a place as hell. \n\nIt was the myth of hell that made me finally realize that the whole thing\nwas untrue. If it hadn\'t been for hell I would still be a believer today.\nThe myth of hell made me realize that if there was a God that he was not\nthe all knowing and all good God he claimed to be. Why should I take such\na being at his word, even if there was evidence for his existance?\n\n-- \n------ Join the Pythagorean Reform Church! .\n\\ / Repent of your evil irrational numbers . .\n \\ / and bean eating ways. Accept 10 into your heart! . . .\n \\/ Call the Pythagorean Reform Church BBS at 508-793-9568 . . . .\n \n',
"From: markus@octavia.anu.edu.au (Markus Buchhorn)\nSubject: Re: HDF readers/viewers\nOrganization: Australian National University, Canberra\nLines: 22\nDistribution: world\nNNTP-Posting-Host: 150.203.5.35\nOriginator: markus@octavia\n\n\nI wrote...\n> \n> G'day all,\n> \n> Can anybody point me at a utility which will read/convert/crop/whatnot/\n> display HDF image files ? I've had a look at the HDF stuff under NCSA \n> and it must take an award for odd directory structure, strange storage\n> approaches and minimalist documentation :-)\n\nand it has since turned out that all the mirror sites I looked at were \nfooled by a restructuring at the original site - zaphod.ncsa.uiuc.edu - \nand hence were in a mess. That and a pointer to 'imconv' should get\nme started. Ta muchly.\n\nCheers\n\tMarkus\n-- \nMarkus Buchhorn, Parallel Computing Research Facility\nemail = markus@octavia.anu.edu.au\nAustralian National University, Canberra, 0200 , Australia.\n[International = +61 6, Australia = 06] [Phone = 2492930, Fax = 2490747]\n",
'From: shimpei@leland.Stanford.EDU (Shimpei Yamashita)\nSubject: Survey: Faith vs. Reason\nOrganization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA\nLines: 55\n\nThe following is a survey we are conducting for a term project in a philosophy\nclass. It is not meant to give us anything interesting statistically; we want\nto hear what kind of voices there are out there. We are not asking for full-\nblown essays, but please give us what you can.\n\nAs I do not read these groups often, please email all responses to me at\nshimpei@leland.stanford.edu. As my mail account is not infinite, if you can\ndelete the questions and just have numbered answers when you write back\nI would really appreciate it.\n\nSince we would like to start analyzing the result as soon as possible, we\nwould like to have the answers by April 30. If you absolutely cannot make\nit by then, though, we would still liken to hear your answer.\n\nIf anyone is interested in our final project please send a note to that effect\nwould like to have the answers by April 30. If you absolutely cannot make\nit by then, though, we would still like to hear your answer.\n\nIf anyone is interested in our final project please send a note to that effect\n(or better yet, include a note along with your survey response) and I\'ll try\nto email it to you, probably in late May.\n\nSURVEY:\n\nQuestion 1)\nHave you ever had trouble reconciling faith and reason? If so, what was the\ntrouble?\n(For example: -Have you ever been unsure whether Creationism or Evolutionism\n holds more truth?\n -Do you practice tarot cards, palm readings, or divination that\n conflicts with your scientific knowledge of the world?\n -Does your religion require you to ignore physical realities that\n you have seen for yourself or makes logical sense to you?)\nBasically, we would like to know if you ever _BELIEVED_ in something that your\n_REASON_tells you is wrong.\n\nQuestion 2)\nIf you have had conflict, how did/do you resolve the conflict?\n\nQuestion 3)\nIf you haven\'t had trouble, why do you think you haven\'t? Is there a set of\nguidelines you use for solving these problems?\n\nThank you very much for your time.\n\n\n\n\n-- \nShimpei Yamashita, Stanford University email:shimpei@leland.stanford.edu\n "There are three kinds of mathematicians: \n those who can count and those who can\'t."\n\n[It seems to be that time of year. Please remember that he\'s asked for\nyou to respond by email. --clh]\n',
'From: keith@cco.caltech.edu (Keith Allan Schneider)\nSubject: Re: <Political Atheists?\nOrganization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena\nLines: 50\nNNTP-Posting-Host: punisher.caltech.edu\n\nbobbe@vice.ICO.TEK.COM (Robert Beauchaine) writes:\n\n>>I think that about 70% (or so) people approve of the\n>>death penalty, even realizing all of its shortcomings. Doesn\'t this make\n>>it reasonable? Or are *you* the sole judge of reasonability?\n>Aside from revenge, what merits do you find in capital punishment?\n\nAre we talking about me, or the majority of the people that support it?\nAnyway, I think that "revenge" or "fairness" is why most people are in\nfavor of the punishment. If a murderer is going to be punished, people\nthat think that he should "get what he deserves." Most people wouldn\'t\nthink it would be fair for the murderer to live, while his victim died.\n\n>Revenge? Petty and pathetic.\n\nPerhaps you think that it is petty and pathetic, but your views are in the\nminority.\n\n>We have a local televised hot topic talk show that very recently\n>did a segment on capital punishment. Each and every advocate of\n>the use of this portion of our system of "jurisprudence" cited the\n>main reason for supporting it: "That bastard deserved it". True\n>human compassion, forgiveness, and sympathy.\n\nWhere are we required to have compassion, forgiveness, and sympathy? If\nsomeone wrongs me, I will take great lengths to make sure that his advantage\nis removed, or a similar situation is forced upon him. If someone kills\nanother, then we can apply the golden rule and kill this person in turn.\nIs not our entire moral system based on such a concept?\n\nOr, are you stating that human life is sacred, somehow, and that it should\nnever be violated? This would sound like some sort of religious view.\n \n>>I mean, how reasonable is imprisonment, really, when you think about it?\n>>Sure, the person could be released if found innocent, but you still\n>>can\'t undo the imiprisonment that was served. Perhaps we shouldn\'t\n>>imprision people if we could watch them closely instead. The cost would\n>>probably be similar, especially if we just implanted some sort of\n>>electronic device.\n>Would you rather be alive in prison or dead in the chair? \n\nOnce a criminal has committed a murder, his desires are irrelevant.\n\nAnd, you still have not answered my question. If you are concerned about\nthe death penalty due to the possibility of the execution of an innocent,\nthen why isn\'t this same concern shared with imprisonment. Shouldn\'t we,\nby your logic, administer as minimum as punishment as possible, to avoid\nviolating the liberty or happiness of an innocent person?\n\nkeith\n',
'From: livesey@solntze.wpd.sgi.com (Jon Livesey)\nSubject: Re: Morality? (was Re: <Political Atheists?)\nOrganization: sgi\nLines: 93\nDistribution: world\nNNTP-Posting-Host: solntze.wpd.sgi.com\n\nIn article <1qlettINN8oi@gap.caltech.edu>, keith@cco.caltech.edu (Keith Allan Schneider) writes:\n|> livesey@solntze.wpd.sgi.com (Jon Livesey) writes:\n|> \n|> >>>Explain to me\n|> >>>how instinctive acts can be moral acts, and I am happy to listen.\n|> >>For example, if it were instinctive not to murder...\n|> >\n|> >Then not murdering would have no moral significance, since there\n|> >would be nothing voluntary about it.\n|> \n|> See, there you go again, saying that a moral act is only significant\n|> if it is "voluntary." Why do you think this?\n\nIf you force me to do something, am I morally responsible for it?\n\n|> \n|> And anyway, humans have the ability to disregard some of their instincts.\n\nWell, make up your mind. Is it to be "instinctive not to murder"\nor not?\n\n|> \n|> >>So, only intelligent beings can be moral, even if the bahavior of other\n|> >>beings mimics theirs?\n|> >\n|> >You are starting to get the point. Mimicry is not necessarily the \n|> >same as the action being imitated. A Parrot saying "Pretty Polly" \n|> >isn\'t necessarily commenting on the pulchritude of Polly.\n|> \n|> You are attaching too many things to the term "moral," I think.\n|> Let\'s try this: is it "good" that animals of the same species\n|> don\'t kill each other. Or, do you think this is right? \n\nIt\'s not even correct. Animals of the same species do kill\none another.\n\n|> \n|> Or do you think that animals are machines, and that nothing they do\n|> is either right nor wrong?\n\nSigh. I wonder how many times we have been round this loop.\n\nI think that instinctive bahaviour has no moral significance.\nI am quite prepared to believe that higher animals, such as\nprimates, have the beginnings of a moral sense, since they seem\nto exhibit self-awareness.\n\n|> \n|> \n|> >>Animals of the same species could kill each other arbitarily, but \n|> >>they don\'t.\n|> >\n|> >They do. I and other posters have given you many examples of exactly\n|> >this, but you seem to have a very short memory.\n|> \n|> Those weren\'t arbitrary killings. They were slayings related to some \n|> sort of mating ritual or whatnot.\n\nSo what? Are you trying to say that some killing in animals\nhas a moral significance and some does not? Is this your\nnatural morality>\n\n\n|> \n|> >>Are you trying to say that this isn\'t an act of morality because\n|> >>most animals aren\'t intelligent enough to think like we do?\n|> >\n|> >I\'m saying:\n|> >\t"There must be the possibility that the organism - it\'s not \n|> >\tjust people we are talking about - can consider alternatives."\n|> >\n|> >It\'s right there in the posting you are replying to.\n|> \n|> Yes it was, but I still don\'t understand your distinctions. What\n|> do you mean by "consider?" Can a small child be moral? How about\n|> a gorilla? A dolphin? A platypus? Where is the line drawn? Does\n|> the being need to be self aware?\n\nAre you blind? What do you think that this sentence means?\n\n\t"There must be the possibility that the organism - it\'s not \n\tjust people we are talking about - can consider alternatives."\n\nWhat would that imply?\n\n|> \n|> What *do* you call the mechanism which seems to prevent animals of\n|> the same species from (arbitrarily) killing each other? Don\'t\n|> you find the fact that they don\'t at all significant?\n\nI find the fact that they do to be significant. \n\njon.\n',
'From: lvandyke@balboa.eng.uci.edu (Lee Van Dyke)\nSubject: Wanted: map of the world type gifs\nNntp-Posting-Host: balboa.eng.uci.edu\nOrganization: University of California, Irvine\nLines: 11\n\nHi, can anyone direct me to map type gifs? \n\nI am interesting in cartography and would find\nthese gifs useful.\n\ntia,\n\n--\nLee Van Dyke\n lvandyke@balboa.eng.uci.edu,\nUUCP: infotec!Infotec.COM!lee@sunkist.West.Sun.COM\n',
'From: geb@cs.pitt.edu (Gordon Banks)\nSubject: Should patients read package inserts (PDR)?\nReply-To: geb@cs.pitt.edu (Gordon Banks)\nOrganization: Univ. of Pittsburgh Computer Science\nLines: 48\n\nIn article <1993Mar29.113528.930@news.wesleyan.edu> RGINZBERG@eagle.wesleyan.edu (Ruth Ginzberg) writes:\n\n>Hmmmm... here\'s one place where I really think the patient ought to take more\n>responsibility for him- or herself. There is absolutely no reason why you\n>can\'t ask the pharmacist filling the prescription for the "Physicians\' Package\n>Insert" for the medication when you pick it up at the pharmacy. Make sure to\n>tell the pharmacist that you want the "Physicians\' Package Insert" *NOT* the\n\nIf people are going to do this, I really wish they would tell me first.\nI\'d be happy to go over the insert (in the PDR) with them and explain\neverything. All too many patients read the insert and panic and then\non the next visit sheepishly admit they were afraid to take the drug\nand we are starting over again at square one. Some of them probably\ndidn\'t even come back for followup because they didn\'t want to admit\nthey wouldn\'t take the drug or thought I was trying to kill them or\nsomething. What people don\'t understand about the inserts is that they\nreport every adverse side effect ever reported, without substantiating\nthat the drug was responsible. The insert is a legal document to slough\nliability from the manufacturer to the physician if something was to\nhappen. If patients want to have the most useful and reliable information\non a drug they would be so much better off getting hold of one of the\nAMA drug evaluation books or something similar that is much more scientific.\nThere are very few drugs that someone hasn\'t reported a death from taking.\nPatients don\'t realize that and don\'t usually appreciate the risks\nto themselves properly. I\'m sure Herman is going to "go ballistic",\nbut so be it. Another problem is that probably most drugs have been\nreported to cause impotence. Half the males who read that will falsely assume\nit could permanently cause them to lose sexual function and so will\nrefuse to take any drug like that. This can be a real problem for\nPDR readers. There needs to be some way of providing patients with\ntools geared to them that allow them to get the information they need.\nI am involved in a research project to do that, with migraine as the\ndomain. It involves a computer system that will provide answers to questions\nabout migraine as well as the therapy prescribed for the patient.\nFor common illnesses, such as migraine and hypertension, this may help\nquite a bit. The patient could spend as much time as needed with the\ncomputer and this would then not burden the physician. Clearly,\nphysicians in large part fail to answer all the questions patients have,\nas is demonstrated over and over here on the net where we get asked\nthings that the patients should have found out from their physician\nbut didn\'t. Why they didn\'t isn\'t always the physician\'s fault either.\nSometimes the patients are afraid to ask. They won\'t be as afraid to\nask the system, we hope.\n-- \n----------------------------------------------------------------------------\nGordon Banks N3JXP | "Skepticism is the chastity of the intellect, and\ngeb@cadre.dsl.pitt.edu | it is shameful to surrender it too soon." \n----------------------------------------------------------------------------\n',
"From: mcovingt@aisun3.ai.uga.edu (Michael Covington)\nSubject: Re: Twitching eyelid\nSummary: Different cause\nNntp-Posting-Host: aisun3.ai.uga.edu\nOrganization: AI Programs, University of Georgia, Athens\nLines: 9\n\nI'm surprised nobody mentioned that twitching of the eyelid can be a\nsymptom of an infection, especially if it also itches or stings.\n(It happened to me, and antibiotic eyedrops cleared it up nicely.)\n\n-- \n:- Michael A. Covington internet mcovingt@ai.uga.edu : *****\n:- Artificial Intelligence Programs phone 706 542-0358 : *********\n:- The University of Georgia fax 706 542-0349 : * * *\n:- Athens, Georgia 30602-7415 U.S.A. amateur radio N4TMI : ** *** **\n",
'From: livesey@solntze.wpd.sgi.com (Jon Livesey)\nSubject: Re: islamic genocide\nOrganization: sgi\nLines: 48\nDistribution: world\nNNTP-Posting-Host: solntze.wpd.sgi.com\n\nIn article <1qjipo$pen@horus.ap.mchp.sni.de>, frank@D012S658.uucp (Frank O\'Dwyer) writes:\n|> In article <1qinmd$sp@fido.asd.sgi.com> livesey@solntze.wpd.sgi.com (Jon Livesey) writes:\n|> #|> \n|> #|> At any rate, even if your interpretation is correct this does \n|> #|> not imply that the killings are religously motivated, which was \n|> #|> the original poster\'s seeming claim.\n|> #\n|> #Tricky, tricky. I\'m replying to your blanket claim that they\n|> #are *not* religiously motivated.\n|> \n|> They aren\'t. Irish catholics in the south do not kill Irish protestants\n|> in the south, yet have precisely the same history behind them. Those\n|> who think the killings are religously motivated ignore the rather\n|> obvious matter of British occupation, partition and misguided patriotism\n|> on both sides. \n\nFalse dichotomy. You claimed the killing were *not* religiously\nmotivated, and I\'m saying that\'s wrong. I\'m not saying that\neach and every killing is religiously motivate, as I spelled out\nin detail.\n\n\n|> \n|> The problems fault along the religious divide because at the historical\n|> roots of this thing we have a catholic country partitioned and populated\n|> by a protestant one. The grotesque killing of soldiers and \n|> civilians is supposedly motivated by patriotism, civil rights issues, and \n|> revenge. It\'s only difficult to understand insofaras insanity is hard \n|> to understand - religion need not be invoked to explain it. \n\nDoes anyone else see the contradiction in this paragraph?\n\n\n|> #But to claim that "The killings in N.I are not religously \n|> #motivated." is grotesque. All that means is that the Church\n|> #and believers are doing what they always do with history\n|> #they can\'t face: they rewrite it.\n|> \n|> You\'re attacking a different claim. My claim is that when an IRA\n|> terrorist plants a bomb in Warrington s/he does not have as a motive \n|> the greater glory of God. \n\nSorry, Frank, but what I put in quotes is your own words from your\nposting <1qi83b$ec4@horus.ap.mchp.sni.de>. Don\'t tell us now that \nit\'s a different claim. If you can no longer stand behind your \noriginal claim, just say so.\n\njon.\n',
'From: jhpb@sarto.budd-lake.nj.us (Joseph H. Buehler)\nSubject: Re: SSPX schism ?\nOrganization: none\nLines: 240\n\nLarry L. Overacker writes, responding to Simon:\n\n I may be interesting to see some brief selections posted to the\n net. My understanding is that SSPX does not consider ITSELF in\n schism or legitimately excommunicated. But that\'s really beside\n the point. What does the Roman Catholic church say?\n Excommunication can be real apart from formal excommunication, as\n provided for in canon law.\n\nHere\'s some of the theology involved for the interested.\n\nThere is confusion over this issue of the SSPX\'s "schism"; often the\nbasic problem is lack of an ability to distinguish between:\n\n- true obedience\n- false obedience\n- disobedience\n- schism\n\nTake the various classifications of obedience first. There are 2\nimportant elements involved here for my purposes:\n\n1) a command\n2) the response made to the command\n\nAs far as the command goes, commands can be LEGITIMATE, such as the\nPope ordering Catholics to not eat meat on Fridays. Or they can be\nILLEGITIMATE, such as the Pope ordering Catholics to worship the god\nDagon when every other full moon comes around.\n\nAs far as the response to a command goes, it can be to REFUSE to do\nwhat is commanded, or to COMPLY.\n\nMaking a table, there are thus 4 possibilites:\n\ncommand response name\n-----------------------------------------------------\nLEGITIMATE COMPLY true obedience\nILLEGITIMATE REFUSE true obedience\nLEGITIMATE REFUSE disobedience\nILLEGITIMATE COMPLY false obedience\n\nSo now you see where my 3 classifications of obedience come from.\n\nObedience is not solely a matter of compliance/refusal. The nature of\nthe commands must also be taken into account; it is not enough to\nconsider someone\'s compliance or refusal and then say whether they are\n"obedient" or "disobedient". You also have to take into consideration\nwhether the commands are good or bad.\n\nIn my example, if the Pope commands all Catholics to worship the god\nDagon, and they all refuse, they aren\'t being disobedient at all!\n\nAs far as the Society of Saint Pius X goes, they are certainly\nrefusing to comply with certain things the Pope desires. But that\nalone is insufficient to allow one to label them "disobedient". You\nalso have to consider the nature of the Papal desires.\n\nAnd there\'s the rub: SSPX says the Popes since Vatican II have been\ncommanding certain very bad things for the Church. The Popes have of\ncourse disagreed.\n\nSo where are we? Are we in another Arian heresy, complete with weak\nPopes? Or are the SSPX priests modern Martin Luthers? Well, the only\nway to answer that is to examine who is saying what, and what the\ntraditional teaching of the Church is.\n\nThe problem here is that very few Catholics have much of an idea of\nwhat is really going on, and what the issues are. The religion of\nAmerican Catholics is especially defective in intellectual depth. You\nwill never read about the issues being discussed in the Catholic press\nin this country. (On the other hand, one Italian Catholic magazine I\nget -- 30 Days -- has had interviews with the Superior General of the\nSociety of Saint Pius X.)\n\nMany Catholics will decide to side with the Pope. There is some\nsoundness in this, because the Papacy is infallible, so eventually\nsome Pope *will* straighten all this out. But, on the other hand,\nthere is also unsoundness in this, in that, in the short term, the\nPopes may indeed be wrong, and such Catholics are doing nothing to\nhelp the situation by obeying them where they\'re wrong. In fact, if\nthe situation is grave enough, they sin in obeying him. At the very\nleast, they\'re wasting a great opportunity, because they are failing\nto love Christ in a heroic way at the very time that He needs this\nbadly.\n\nSchism... let\'s move on to schism. What is it?\n\nSchism is a superset of disobedience (refusal to obey a legitimate\ncommand). All schismatics are disobedient. But it\'s a superset, so\nit doesn\'t work the other way around: not all disobeyers are\nschismatics. The mere fact that the SSPX priests don\'t comply with\nthe Holy Father\'s desires doesn\'t make them schismatics.\n\nSo what is it that must be added to disobedience to constitute a\nschism? Maybe this something else makes the SSPX priests schismatics.\n\nYou must add this: the rejection of the right to command. Look in any\ndecent reference on Catholic theology, and that\'s what you\'ll find:\nthe distinguishing criterion of schism is rejection of the right to\ncommand.\n\nHere\'s what the Catholic Encyclopedia says, for example:\n\n ... not every disobedience is a schism; in order to possess this\n character it must include besides the trangression of the commands\n of superiors, denial of their Divine right to command.\n (from the CE article "Schism")\n\nIs the Society of Saint Pius X then schismatic? The answer is a clear\nno: they say that the Pope is their boss. They pray for him every\nday. And that\'s all that matters as far as schism goes.\n\nWhat all this boils down to is this: if we leave aside the\nconsideration of the exact nature of their objections, their position\nis a legitimate one, as far as the Catholic theology of obedience and\nschism goes. They are resisting certain Papal policies because they\nthink that they are clearly contrary to the traditional teaching of\nthe Papacy, and the best interests of the Church. (In fact, someone\nwho finds himself in this situation has a *duty* to resist.)\n\nNow, what is the stance of Rome on all this? Well, if you read the\nHoly Father\'s motu proprio "Ecclesia Dei", you can find out. It\'s the\ndefinitive document on the subject. A motu proprio is a specifically\nPapal act. It\'s not the product of a Roman congregation, a letter\nthat the Pope has possibly never even read. It\'s from the Pope\nhimself. His boss is God... there\'s no one else to complain to.\n\nIn this document, the Holy Father says, among other things:\n\n1) The episcopal consecrations performed by Archbishop Lefebvre\nconstituted a schismatic act.\n\n2) Archbishop Lefebvre\'s problem was a misunderstanding of the nature\nof Tradtion.\n\nBoth are confusing: I fail to see the logic of the Pope\'s points.\n\nAs far as the episcopal consecrations go, I read an interesting\narticle in a translation of the Italian magazine "Si Si No No". It\nall gets back to the question of jurisdiction. If episcopal\nconsecrations imply rejection of the Pope\'s jurisdiction, then they\nwould truly constitute a schismatic act, justifying excommunication\nunder the current code of canon law. But my problem with this is\nthis: according to the traditional theology of Holy Orders, episcopal\nconsecration does not confer jurisdiction. It only confers the power\nof Order: the ability to confect the Sacraments. Jurisdiction must be\nconferred by someone else with the power to confer it (such as the\nPope). The Society bishops, knowing the traditional theology quite\nwell, take great pains to avoid any pretence of jurisdiction over\nanyone. They simply confer those Sacraments that require a bishop.\n\nThe "Si Si No No" article was interesting in that it posited that the\nreason that the Pope said what he did is that he has a novel,\npost-Vatican II idea of Holy Orders. According to this idea,\nepiscopal consecration *does* confer jurisdiction. I lent the article\nto a friend, unfortunately, so can\'t tell you more. I believe they\nquoted the new code of canon law in support of this idea.\n\nThe Pope\'s thinking on this point remains a great puzzle to me.\nThere\'s no way there is a schism, according to traditional Catholic\ntheology. So why does the Pope think this?\n\nAs far as the points regarding the nature of Tradition goes, here\'s\nthe passage in question:\n\n The root of this schismatic act can be discerned in an incomplete\n and contradictory notion of Tradtion. Incomplete, because it does\n not take sufficiently into the account the living character of\n Tradition, which, as the Second Vatican Council clearly taught,\n\n comes from the apostles and progresses in the Church with the\n help of the Holy Spirit. There is a growth in insight into\n the realities and words that are being passed on. This comes\n about in various ways. It comes through the contemplation and\n study of believers who ponder these things in their hearts.\n It comes from the intimate sense of spiritual realities which\n they experience. And it comes from the preaching of those who\n have received, along with their right of succession in the\n espiscopate, the sure charism of truth.\n\n But especially contradictory is a notion of Tradition which\n opposes the universal Magisterium of the Church possessed by the\n Bishop of Rome and the body of bishops. It is impossible to\n remain faithful to the Tradition while breaking the ecclesial bond\n with him to whom, in the person of the Apostle Peter, Christ\n himself entrusted the ministry of unity in His Church.\n\n (Papal motu proprio "Ecclesia Dei", 2 July 1988)\n\nIt seems to me that the Holy Father is making two points here that can\nbe simplified to the following:\n\n- Vatican Council II has happened.\n- I am the Pope.\n\nThe argument being that either case is sufficient to prove that\nArchbishop Lefebvre must be wrong, because he disagrees with them.\nThis is weak, to say the least!\n\nIt would have helped clarify things more if the Pope had addressed\nArchbishop Lefebvre\'s concerns in detail. What is John Paul II\'s\nstand on the social Kingship of Christ, as taught by Gregory XVI, Pius\nIX, Leo XIII, Pius XI and Pius XII, for example? Are we supposed to\nignore what all these Popes said on the subject?\n\nI don\'t know what the future will hold, but the powers that be in the\nSSPX are still talking with Rome and trying to straighten things out.\n\n--------------------------------------------------------------\n\n[Many people would prefer to call a justified refusal to obey\n"justified disobedience" or even "obeying God rather than man".\nCalling a refusal to obey obedience puts us into a sort of Alice in\nWonderland world where words mean whatever we want them to mean.\n\nSimilarly, schism indicates a formal break in the church. If the Pope\nsays that a schism exists, it seems to me that by definition it\nexists. It may be that the Pope is on the wrong side of the break,\nthat there is no good reason for the break to exist, and that it will\nshortly be healed. But how can one deny that it does in fact exist?\n\nIt seems to me that you are in grave danger of destroying the thing\nyou are trying to reform: the power of the papacy. What good will it\ndo you if you become reconciled to the the Pope in the future, but in\nthe process, you have destroyed his ability to use the tools of church\ndiscipline? It\'s one thing to hold that the Pope has misused his\npowers, and excommunicated someone wrongly. It\'s something else to\nsay that his excommunication did not take effect, and the schism is\nall in his imagination. That means that acts of church discipline are\nnot legal tools, but acts whose validity is open to debate. Generally\nit has been liberal Catholics who have had problems with the Pope.\nWhile they have often objected to church sanctions, generally they\nhave admitted that the sanctions exist. You are now opening the door\nto people simply ignoring papal decisions, claiming to be truly\nobeying by disobeying, and to be in communion while excommunicated.\nThis would seem to be precisely the denial of Divine right to command\nthat you say defines schism.\n\n--clh]\n',
'From: noring@netcom.com (Jon Noring)\nSubject: Re: Great Post! (was Re: Candida (yeast) Bloom...) (VERY LONG)\nOrganization: Netcom Online Communications Services (408-241-9760 login: guest)\nLines: 38\n\nIn article turpin@cs.utexas.edu (Russell Turpin) writes:\n\n>I hope Gordon Banks did not mean to imply that notions such as\n>hard-to-see candida infections causing various problems should not\n>be investigated. Many researchers have made breakthroughs by \n>figuring out how to investigate things that were previously thought\n>"virtually impossible to test for."\n>\n>Indeed, I would be surprised if "candida overbloom" were such a\n>phenomena. I would think that candida would produce signature\n>byproducts whose measure would then set a lower bound on the \n>extent of recent infection. I realize this might get quite \n>tricky and difficult, probably expensive, and likely inconvenient\n>or uncomfortable to the subjects, but that is not the same as \n>"virtually impossible."\n\nI recall reading in the recently revised edition of the "Yeast Connection"\nthat there is indeed work by researchers to do this. Of course, they are\nworking on the theory that candida overbloom with penetration into mucus\nmembrane tissue with associated "mild" inflammatory response can and does\noccur in a large number of people. If you reject this "yeast hypothesis",\nthen I\'d guess you\'d view this research as one more wasteful and quixotic\nendeavor. Stay tuned.\n\nJon Noring\n\n-- \n\nCharter Member --->>> INFJ Club.\n\nIf you\'re dying to know what INFJ means, be brave, e-mail me, I\'ll send info.\n=============================================================================\n| Jon Noring | noring@netcom.com | |\n| JKN International | IP : 192.100.81.100 | FRED\'S GOURMET CHOCOLATE |\n| 1312 Carlton Place | Phone : (510) 294-8153 | CHIPS - World\'s Best! |\n| Livermore, CA 94550 | V-Mail: (510) 417-4101 | |\n=============================================================================\nWho are you? Read alt.psychology.personality! That\'s where the action is.\n',
"From: clldomps@cs.ruu.nl (Louis van Dompselaar)\nSubject: Re: images of earth\nOrganization: Utrecht University, Dept. of Computer Science\nLines: 16\n\nIn <1993Apr19.193758.12091@unocal.com> stgprao@st.unocal.COM (Richard Ottolini) writes:\n\n>Beware. There is only one such *copyrighted* image and the company\n>that generated is known to protect that copyright. That image took\n>hundreds of man-hours to build from the source satellite images,\n>so it is unlikely that competing images will appear soon.\n\nSo they should sue the newspaper I got it from for printing it.\nThe article didn't say anything about copyrights.\n\nLouis\n\n-- \nI'm hanging on your words, Living on your breath, Feeling with your skin,\nWill I always be here? -- In Your Room [ DM ]\n\n",
"From: neideck@nestvx.enet.dec.com (Burkhard Neidecker-Lutz)\nSubject: Re: Rumours about 3DO ???\nOrganization: CEC Karlsruhe\nLines: 17\nNNTP-Posting-Host: NESTVX\nKeywords: 3DO ARM QT Compact Video\n\nIn article <2BD07605.18974@news.service.uci.edu> rbarris@orion.oac.uci.edu (Robert C. Barris) writes:\n>I'm not sure how a Centris/20MHz 040 stacks up against the 25 MHz ARM in\n>the 3DO box. Obviously the ARM is faster, but how much?\n\nWhy would it have to be much faster (it probably is) ? Assuming an ARM\nis about as efficient as a MIPS R3000 for integer calculations, doing\na Compact-Video-like digital video codec is an easy task. For Software\nMotion Pictures (which is a lot like Compact Video, though it predates\nit), we get 48 frames/sec. at 320x240 on a DECstation 5000/200. That\nmachine has a 25 Mhz MIPS R3000. \n\n\t\tBurkhard Neidecker-Lutz\n\nDistributed Multimedia Group, CEC Karlsruhe EERP Portfolio Manager\nSoftware Motion Pictures & BERKOM II Project Multimedia Base Technology\nDigital Equipment Corporation\nneidecker@nestvx.enet.dec.com\n",
"From: tbrent@ecn.purdue.edu (Timothy J Brent)\nSubject: Am I going to Hell?\nOrganization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network\nLines: 12\n\nI have stated before that I do not consider myself an atheist, but \ndefinitely do not believe in the christian god. The recent discussion\nabout atheists and hell, combined with a post to another group (to the\neffect of 'you will all go to hell') has me interested in the consensus \nas to how a god might judge men. As a catholic, I was told that a jew,\nbuddhist, etc. might go to heaven, but obviously some people do not\nbelieve this. Even more see atheists and pagans (I assume I would be \nlumped into this category) to be hellbound. I know you believe only\ngod can judge, and I do not ask you to, just for your opinions.\n\nThanks,\n-Tim\n",
'From: a137490@lehtori.cc.tut.fi (Aario Sami)\nSubject: Re: Genocide is Caused by Atheism\nOrganization: Tampere University of Technology, Computing Centre\nLines: 16\nDistribution: sfnet\nNNTP-Posting-Host: cc.tut.fi\n\nIn <kmr4.1466.734160929@po.CWRU.edu> kmr4@po.CWRU.edu (Keith M. Ryan) writes:\n \n> "Wait. You just said that humans are rarely reasonable. Doesn\'t that\n> contradict atheism, where everything is explained through logic and\n> reason? This is THE contradiction in atheism that proves it false."\n> --- Bobby Mozumder proving the existence of Allah, #2\n\nDoes anybody have Bobby\'s post in which he said something like "I don\'t\nknow why there are more men than women in islamic countries. Maybe it\'s\natheists killing the female children"? It\'s my personal favorite!\n\n-- \nSami Aario | "Can you see or measure an atom? Yet you can explode\na137490@cc.tut.fi | one. Sunlight is comprised of many atoms."\n-------------------\' "Your stupid minds! Stupid, stupid!"\nEros in "Plan 9 From Outer Space" DISCLAIMER: I don\'t agree with Eros.\n',
'From: acooper@mac.cc.macalstr.edu\nSubject: Idle questions for fellow atheists\nOrganization: Macalester College\nLines: 26\n\n\nI wonder how many atheists out there care to speculate on the face of the world\nif atheists were the majority rather than the minority group of the population. \nIt is rather a ridiculous question in some ways, I know, but my newsreader is\ndown so I am not getting any new postings for a bit, so I figure I might as\nwell post something new myself.\n\nAlso, how many atheists out there would actually take the stance and accor a\nhigher value to their way of thinking over the theistic way of thinking. The\ntypical selfish argument would be that both lines of thinking evolved from the\nsame inherent motivation, so one is not, intrinsically, different from the\nother, qualitatively. But then again a measuring stick must be drawn\nsomewhere, and if we cannot assign value to a system of beliefs at its core,\nthan the only other alternative is to apply it to its periphery; ie, how it\nexpresses its own selfishness.\n\nIdle thoughts...\n\n\nAdam\n\n********************************************************************************\n* Adam John Cooper\t\t"Verily, often have I laughed at the weaklings *\n*\t\t\t\t who thought themselves good simply because *\n* acooper@macalstr.edu\t\t\t\tthey had no claws."\t *\n********************************************************************************\n',
'From: mhsu@lonestar.utsa.edu (Melinda . Hsu )\nSubject: Re: The arrogance of Christians\nOrganization: University of Texas at San Antonio\nLines: 26\n\n>They believe the danger is real, but others may not.\n>\n>Does that mean that the first group are NECESSARILY arrogant in warning\n>others of the danger? Does it mean that they are saying that their beliefs\n>are correct, and all others are false?\n>\n>Some might indeed react to opposition with arrogance, and behave in an\n>arrogant manner, but that is a personal idiocyncracy. It does not\n>necessarily mean that they are all arrogant.\n\nNo the members of the first group are not necessarily\narrogant. But when I ask them if they are absolutely certain\nthat the volcano will erupt, I expect them to say so "No,\nbut I\'ve chosen to believe some knowledgable people who have\ndetermined that the volcano will erupt," rather than, "Yes, I am\nabsolutely certain." When it comes to religious discussions,\narrogance or at best naivete is reflected in the latter type of\nstatement.\n\n| Louis J. Kim --- _ O PH:512-522-5556 |\n| Southwest Research Institute --- ,/ |\\/\' FAX:512-522-3042 |\n| Post Office Drawer 28510 ---- |__ lkim@swri.edu |\n| San Antonio, TX 78228-0510 ---- __/ \\ 76450.2231@compuserve.com |\n\n\n-- \n',
'From: nyeda@cnsvax.uwec.edu (David Nye)\nSubject: Re: Post Polio Syndrome Information Needed Please !!!\nOrganization: University of Wisconsin Eau Claire\nLines: 21\n\n[reply to keith@actrix.gen.nz (Keith Stewart)]\n \n>My wife has become interested through an acquaintance in Post-Polio\n>Syndrome This apparently is not recognised in New Zealand and different\n>symptons ( eg chest complaints) are treated separately. Does anone have\n>any information on it\n \nIt would help if you (and anyone else asking for medical information on\nsome subject) could ask specific questions, as no one is likely to type\nin a textbook chapter covering all aspects of the subject. If you are\nlooking for a comprehensive review, ask your local hospital librarian.\nMost are happy to help with a request of this sort.\n \nBriefly, this is a condition in which patients who have significant\nresidual weakness from childhood polio notice progression of the\nweakness as they get older. One theory is that the remaining motor\nneurons have to work harder and so die sooner.\n \nDavid Nye (nyeda@cnsvax.uwec.edu). Midelfort Clinic, Eau Claire WI\nThis is patently absurd; but whoever wishes to become a philosopher\nmust learn not to be frightened by absurdities. -- Bertrand Russell\n',
"From: mrl@pfc.mit.edu (Mark London)\nSubject: Corneal erosion/abrasions.\nOrganization: MIT PLASMA FUSION CENTER\nLines: 11\nNNTP-Posting-Host: nerus.pfc.mit.edu\n\nFor several years I have been dealing with reccurring corneal erosion. There\ndoes not seem to be much known about the cause of such a problem. My current\nepisode is pretty bad since it is located in the middle of the cornea. If it's\nbad enough, the usual treatment for it is puncture therapy. However, my doctor\nthis time is trying to let it heal by itself by putting a contact lens to\nprotect the area. Apparently the problem is not that common, but I'd be curious\nif anyone else out there has a similar problem, perhaps to see if a cause can be\nfound. \n\nMark London\nMRL@NERUS.PFC.MIT.EDU\n",
'From: cobb@alexia.lis.uiuc.edu (Mike Cobb)\nSubject: Re: After 2000 years, can we say that Christian Morality is\nOrganization: University of Illinois at Urbana\nLines: 36\n\nIn <kmr4.1576.734879396@po.CWRU.edu> kmr4@po.CWRU.edu (Keith M. Ryan) writes:\n\n>In article <1qj9gq$mg7@horus.ap.mchp.sni.de> frank@D012S658.uucp (Frank \nO\'Dwyer) writes:\n\n>>Is good logic *better* than bad? Is good science better than bad? \n\n> By definition.\n\n\n> great - good - okay - bad - horrible\n\n> << better\n> worse >>\n\n\n> Good is defined as being better than bad.\n\n>---\nHow do we come up with this setup? Is this subjective, if enough people agreed\nwe could switch the order? Isn\'t this defining one unknown thing by another? \nThat is, good is that which is better than bad, and bad is that which is worse\nthan good? Circular?\n\nMAC\n> Only when the Sun starts to orbit the Earth will I accept the Bible. \n> \n\n--\n****************************************************************\n Michael A. Cobb\n "...and I won\'t raise taxes on the middle University of Illinois\n class to pay for my programs." Champaign-Urbana\n -Bill Clinton 3rd Debate cobb@alexia.lis.uiuc.edu\n \nWith new taxes and spending cuts we\'ll still have 310 billion dollar deficits.\n',
"From: spworley@netcom.com (Steve Worley)\nSubject: Re: Sphere from 4 points?\nOrganization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)\nLines: 38\n\nbolson@carson.u.washington.edu (Edward Bolson) writes:\n\n>Boy, this will be embarassing if it is trivial or an FAQ:\n\n>Given 4 points (non coplanar), how does one find the sphere, that is,\n>center and radius, exactly fitting those points? I know how to do it\n>for a circle (from 3 points), but do not immediately see a \n>straightforward way to do it in 3-D. I have checked some\n>geometry books, Graphics Gems, and Farin, but am still at a loss?\n>Please have mercy on me and provide the solution? \n\nIt's not a bad question: I don't have any refs that list this algorithm\neither. But thinking about it a bit, it shouldn't be too hard.\n\n1) Take three of the points and find the plane they define as well as\nthe circle that they lie on (you say you have this algorithm already)\n\n2) Find the center of this circle. The line passing through this center\nperpendicular to the plane of the three points passes through the center of\nthe sphere.\n\n3) Repeat with the unused point and two of the original points. This\ngives you two different lines that both pass through the sphere's\norigin. Their interection is the center of the sphere.\n\n4) the radius is easy to compute, it's just the distance from the center to\nany of the original points.\n\nI'll leave the math to you, but this is a workable algorithm. :-)\n\n\nAn alternate method would be to take pairs of points: the plane formed\nby the perpendicular bisector of each line segment pair also contains the\ncenter of the sphere. Three pairs will form three planes, intersecting\nat a point. This might be easier to implement.\n\n-Steve\nspworley@netcom.com\n",
'From: mdw33310@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Michael D. Walker)\nSubject: Re: Question about Virgin Mary\nOrganization: University of Illinois at Urbana\nLines: 58\n\na.faris@trl.oz.au (Aziz Faris) writes:\n\n>Helllo Netters:\n\n>I was told the Bible says that God took the body of the Virgin Mary as\n>she was being carried for burial. Is this true, if so were in the Bible\n>does it say that.\n\n>Regards,\n>A.Faris\n\n>[I think you\'re talking about the "assumption of the Blessed Virgin\n>Mary". It says that "The Immaculate Mother of God, the ever Virgin\n>Mary, having completed the course of her earthly life, was assumed\n>body and soul into heavenly glory." This was defined by a Papal\n>statement in 1950, though it had certainly been believed by some\n>before that. Like the Immaculate Conception, this is primarily a\n>Roman Catholic doctrine, and like it, it has no direct Biblical\n>support. Note that Catholics do not believe in "sola scriptura".\n>That is, they do not believe that the Bible is the only source of\n>Christian knowledge. Thus the fact that a doctrine has little\n>Biblical support is not necessarily significant to them. They believe\n>that truth can be passed on through traditions of the Church, and also\n>that it can be revealed to the Church. I\'m not interested in yet\n>another Catholic/Protestant argument, but if any Catholics can tell us\n>the basis for these beliefs, I think it would be appropriate. --clh]\n\n\n\tAgain I find myself wanting to respond to a posting and having neither\nthe time nor the proper materials with me (you would think I would learn my\nlesson by now--but I\'m trying to finish writing my Thesis and don\'t have tons\nof time. Anyway...)\n\n\tThe basis for our (the catholic church\'s) belief in the assumption of\nMary, body and soul, into heaven is that, to put it simply, the apostles \nand all the early generation Christians believed it. In fact, throughout their\nministry the apostles kept in close contact with Mary, and 11 of the 12 were\npresent when she died. Only Thomas was missing--when he arrived several days\nlater, he asked to be shown her body, and moved with pity, Peter and several of\nthe other apostles brought him to her tomb. When they arrived the seal was\nstill unbroken. They broke the seal, entered, and the body was missing. There\nwas no sign that anyone had entered, forcibly or otherwise, and everything else\nwas laid out exactly as it had been left. The apostles present all believed\nthat Mary was assumed into heaven--and the apostles TAUGHT this in their \npreaching (of course, this does not appear in any of the texts currently \nconsidered part of the bible, but it does appear in other writings left behind\nby several of them.) Basicaly, as an apostolic church (ie. founded by the\napostles), we believe that the teachings of the apostles, whether written down\nin the bible or written down in other sources, is true, providing that the\nauthenticity of those other sources can be confirmed. At least in the case of\nthe assumption of Mary, the authenticity is quite clear.\n\n\tHope this helps--I would welcome anyone who has more information to\n\tadd to what I\'ve said.\n\t\t\t\t\t- Mike Walker\n\t\t\t\t\t mdw33310@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu\n\t\t\t\t\t (Univ. of Illinois)\n\t\t\t\t\t ]\n',
"From: thinman@netcom.com (Technically Sweet)\nSubject: What is reverse or negative video?\nOrganization: International Foundation for Internal Freedom\nLines: 23\n\nI'm interested in simulating reverse (or negative) color video\nmathematically. What is the transform? Is it a simple\nreversal of the hue value in the HSV color space? Is it\na manipulation in the YUV color space? How is it related\nto solarization?\n\nIf you want to see something truly wild, turn on the\nreverse video effect on a camcorder so equipped,\nand point it at the monitor. This creates a chaotic\ndynamical system whose phase space is continuous along\nrotation, zoom, focus, etc. Very very surprising and \nlovely. I'd like to write a simulation of this effect\nwithout analog grunge. Thanks for any info you may have.\n\nPlease e-mail any info to me. I'll post a summary.\n\nThanks,\n\n-- \n\nLance Norskog\nthinman@netcom.com\nData is not information is not knowledge is not wisdom.\n",
'From: Rick_Granberry@pts.mot.com (Rick Granberry)\nSubject: Re: Help\nReply-To: Rick_Granberry@pts.mot.com (Rick Granberry)\nOrganization: Motorola Paging and Telepoint Systems Group\nLines: 46\n\nIn article <Apr.21.03.26.51.1993.1379@geneva.rutgers.edu>, \nlmvec@westminster.ac.uk (William Hargreaves) writes:\n> Hi everyone, \n> \t I\'m a commited Christian that is battling with a problem. I \n> know that romans talks about how we are saved by our faith not our \n> deeds, yet hebrews and james say that faith without deeds is useless, \n> saying\' You fools, do you still think that just believing is enough?\' \n> \n> Now if someone is fully believing but there life is totally lead by \n> themselves and not by God, according to Romans that person is still \n> saved by there faith.\n\nmy $.02 - Yes and No. I do not believe the above scenario is not possible. \nEither they are believing and living (in at least some part) led by God, else \nthey are not. Believing (intellectually, but waiting(?)) is not enough.\n Especially important to remember is that no one can judge whether you are \nso committed, nor can you judge someone else. I guess the closest we can \ncome to know someone\'s situation is listening to their own statements. This \ncan be fallible, as is our sense of communion one with another.\n\n> But then there is the bit which says that God \n> preferes someone who is cold to him (i.e. doesn\'t know him - condemned) \n> so a lukewarm Christian someone who knows and believes in God but doesn\'\n> t make any attempt to live by the bible. \n\nRegarding this passage, we need to remember that this is a letter to a church \n(at Laodicea), people who are Of the Body of Christ. (Rev.3:14-16) He talks \nabout their works. A translation could say that he says their lack of \nconcern makes him sick (to the point of throwing up).\n\n> Now I am of the opinion that you a saved through faith alone (not what \n> you do) as taught in Romans, but how can I square up in my mind the \n> teachings of James in conjunction with the lukewarm Christian being \'\n> spat-out\'\n Right, saving is by faith alone, except that faith does not come alone, if \nyou catch the two meanings.\n I can offer the explanation that Jesus would that we were either "on fire \nfor Him" or so cold we knew we were not in His will and thus could be made \naware of our separation. This is admonishment for His children, not eternal \ndamnation.\n\n\n\n| "Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him." |\n| "Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own conceit." |\n| (proverbs 26:4&5)\n',
'From: luom@storm.cs.orst.edu (Luo Martha BaoMing)\nSubject: summer program\nOrganization: Computer Science Department, Oregon State University\nLines: 8\n\nDoes anyone know any good decipleship trainning program during min August \nto end of Sept. Or any missionary programs.\nI currently belong to the Missionary Alliance Church in Oregon.\nPlease reply by mail.\n\nthanks.\n----\nluom@storm.cs.orst.edu\n',
"From: dlecoint@garnet.acns.fsu.edu (Darius_Lecointe)\nSubject: Re: Sabbath Admissions 5of5\nOrganization: Florida State University\nLines: 36\n\n[In response to some of the discussions on the Sabbath, Andrew Byler\ncommented that if we really followed sola scriptura we would worship\non Saturday -- the change to Sunday was a law made by the Church, and\nwe don't acknowledge its authority to make laws. I noted that\nProtestants do not consider Sunday worship a law. --clh]\n\nHe was not referring to the FAQ but to the five Sabbath Admissions posted\non the bible study group. This is what prompted someone to send the FAQ\nto me.\n\n> The argument against the Sabbath is\n> that it is part of the ceremonial law, and like the rest of the\nn> ceremonial law is not binding on Christians.\n\nYou cannot show, from scripture, that the weekly Sabbath is part of the\nceremonial laws. Before you post a text in reply investigate its context.\n\n> If you accept that\n> the Sabbath is not binding on Christians, then the day of worship\n> falls into the category of items on which individual Christians or\n> (since worship is by its nature a group activity) churches are free to\n> decide.\n> \nCan the churches also decide what is and is not sin? Interesting. Where\nthere is no divine imperative of course we must establish rules of\noperation. But we cannot be as creative with what God has explicitly\nspoken on.\n\nDarius\n\n[Again, in the normal Protestant interpretation, Sunday is not a law,\nand worshipping on another day is not a sin. Churches are free to\ndecide on the day they will meet, just as they are free to decide on\nthe hour. It would not be a sin to worship on some other day, but if\nyou belong to a church that worships on Sunday and you show up on\nMonday, you will probably worship alone... --clh]\n",
"From: KSTE@vm.cc.purdue.edu (Kerry Stephenson)\nSubject: Request for research subjects\nOrganization: Purdue University\nLines: 14\n\nPlease excuse the interruption.\n \nI am seeking pro-life activists to fill out a 13-page questionnaire\non attitutes, opinions, and activities. If you would be willing\nto participate in this research, please email me privately at\nKSTE@PURCCVM.BITNET. All replies and questionnaires will be\nmade anonymous prior to printout and will be kept confidential.\n \nThank you very much for your help.\n \n--Kerry at Purdue\n\n[Note that I don't normally accept postings on abortion. So this\nisn't an invitation to a discussion in this group. --clh]\n",
'From: JEK@cu.nih.gov\nSubject: etymology of "Easter"\nLines: 53\n\nfor SRC\n\nIn most languages, the Feast of the Resurrection of Our Lord is\nknown as the PASCH, or PASQUE, or some variation thereof, a word\nwhich comes from the Hebrew PESACH, meaning "Passover." In English,\nGerman, and a few related languages, however, it is known as EASTER,\nor some variation thereof, and questions have been asked about the\norigin of this term.\n\nOne explanation is that given by the Venerable Bede in his DE\nRATIONE TEMPORUM 1:5, where he derives the word from the name of an\nAnglo-Saxon goddess of Spring called EASTRE. Bede is a great\nscholar, and it is natural to take his word for it. But he lived\n673-735, and Augustine began preaching in Kent in 597. The use of\nthe word EASTER to describe the Feast would have been well\nestablished before the birth of Bede and probably before the birth\nof anyone he might have discussed the subject with. It seems likely\nthat his derivation is just a guess, based on his awareness that\nthere had been an Anglo-Saxon goddess of Spring bearing that name,\nand the resemblance of the words. Thus, if the said resemblance\n(surely it is not surprising that a personification of Spring should\nhave a name similar to the word for Dawn) is not in istelf\nconvincing, the testimony (or rather the conjecture) by Bede does\nnot make it more so.\n\nAssuming that Bede was right, that would not justify saying that the\nChristian celebration (which, after all, had been going on for some\ncenturies before the name EASTER was applied to it) has pagan roots.\nIt would simply mean that the Anglo-Saxons, upon becoming Christians\nand beginning to celebrate the Resurrection by a festival every\nspring, called it by the name that to them meant simply "Spring\nFestival."\n\nHowever, Bede\'s is not the only theory that has been proposed. J\nKnoblech, in "Die Sprach," ZEITSCHRIFT FUER SPRACHWISSENSCHAFT 5\n(Vienna, 1959) 27-45, offers the following derivation:\n\nAmong Latin-speaking Christians, the week beginning with the Feast\nof the Resurrection was known as "hebdomada alba" (white week),\nsince the newly-baptized Christians were accustomed to wear their\nwhite baptismal robes throughout that week. Sometimes the week was\nreferred to simply as "albae." Translaters rendering this into\nGerman mistook it for the plural of "alba," meaning "dawn." They\naccordingly rendered it as EOSTARUM, which is Old High German for\n"dawn." This gave rise to the form EASTER in English.\n\n Yours,\n James Kiefer\n\n\n[No, I\'m not interested in restarting discussions of the propriety\nof celebrating Easter. However this seems like it contains enough\ninteresting information that people might like to see it. --clh]\n',
'From: keith@cco.caltech.edu (Keith Allan Schneider)\nSubject: Re: >>>>>>Pompous ass\nOrganization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena\nLines: 226\nNNTP-Posting-Host: lloyd.caltech.edu\n\n<MVS104@psuvm.psu.edu> writes:\n\n>>Many people would probably think (especially if the fanatics propogandized\n>>this) that this was a conflict between the atheists and the religious.\n>>Many would get the impression that we were trying to outlaw religion, if\n>>we contintue to try to remove all things with a religious reference.\n>That\'s not what the people I\'ve asked think. Perhaps you would be right\n>if you said the fundamentalists would think this way; after all, they think\n>they are being oppressed when they are not allowed to oppress. However,\n>you have not shown where you get this idea that \'many\' people would\n>\'probably\' think it\'s atheism vs. religion, winner take all. As far as I can\n>tell, it is your groundless prediction that this will happen.\n\nBut you haven\'t taken into the account of propoganda. Remember, if you\nasked Germans before WWII if the Jews shoudl be slaughtered, they would\nprobably answer no, but, after the propoganda machine rolled through, at\nleast some were able to tolerate it.\n\nYou see, it only takes a small group of fanatics to whip up a general\nfrenzy.\n\n>>THe propoganda machines have been in gear over a number of issues, including\n>>abortion and gays... look at some of the things that have happened.\n>Well, so far they have passed one amendment, which is currently under\n>intense scrutiny, and they have failed to outlaw abortion, which is their\n>prime goal on that issue. Yep, they seem sooo effective. Sure.\n\nWell, they haven\'t managed to outlaw abortion due to the possible objectivity\nof the courts. But, they have managed to create quite a few problems for\npeople that wanted to have an abortion. They could create similar problems\nfor us. And, it could be worse. They can try to stop abortions by blocking\nclinics, etc., but imagine what they\'d have to do to stop atheism.\n\n>>>>Besides, the margin of error is very large when you only talk to two people.\n>>>Better than your one, that is, your opinion. Also, I have branched\n>>>out and the informal survey is up over half a dozen now.\n>>And, what have they said? Were you questions unbiased?\n>Keith, you would claim that my questions are biased the minute I posted\n>them, because the answers agreed with me. Everyone I have asked about\n>the possible removal of the motto (the christian portion) has expressed\n>regret about its loss, because they like it. However, when it is pointed\n>out to them that a new motto will not be in the works, none have expressed\n>the desire to rape, murder, pillage, etc., which you have basically claimed.\n\nSo, you are able to convince them individually, but could you convince a\nwhole room of them? A whole nation?\n\n>As for the atheist portion (I know some around here), they have all\n>expressed disgust with the motto. Some noted being harassed by christians\n>who used the motto to try to seem justified. And all would see it gone.\n\nYes, I\'d be glad if it were gone to. I\'ve never supported it. However,\nI think that it is a minor problem that can be easily ignored, contrasted\nwith what *could* happen (an what may be likely).\n\n>>Which Christians designed the motto? Does the motto say anything about\n>>Jesus? Why do you think that it refers *only* to Christians?\n>Christians wrote it; christians think that their religion is right, and\n>all others are wrong; therefore, why would they \'include\' other religions\n>in the realm of being correct? I doubt that any other religions were meant\n>to be included.\n\nWell, I am not clear on the religious convictions of Francis Scott Key (the\nmotto can be attributed to him), but it is at least clear that he believed\nin a god. And, surely there are a few Christians that think as you say,\nbut I don\'t think that most do. Do you think that all Christians actively\ndespise other religions? Most that I have met haven\'t and don\'t do so.\n\n>>>No christian\n>>>that I have queried thinks it means anything but them, and only them.\n>>Why not ask some people of other faiths?\n>Sorry, I would, but christianity is just so awfully popular around here.\n>Suppose you could ask a few people?\n\nWell, I have asked a Hindu, Moselem, and a few Jews, and all of them think\nthat it is applicable to them. Of course, I can\'t say that these people\n(just some that I know pretty well) are accurate representations of their\nfaiths.\n\n>>It is always a good idea to assume that there were dissenting views on any\n>>given issue. You are assuming that all the views were the same, and nothing\n>>leads to this conclusion.\n>Without evidence to the contrary, I doubt that there were dissenting\n>opinions. You claim there were. Provide some evidence for your assertion.\n\nWell, I\'d really like to, and I\'ve tried, but I really don\'t know where to\nget access to _Congressional Records_ from the 1950\'s. Can anyone help\nout here?\n\n>Comparing christians to Nazis? Interesting.\n\nOnly in the sense that neither can probably convinced to change their beliefs.\n\n>>>>No, again, the motto on the money doesn\'t cost you anything extra. However,\n>>>>if you abolished the motto, we\'d all have to pay to have all the dies and\n>>>>plates redone.\n>>>Like people paid before to get them changed to have the motto on them.\n>>You now need to show that there is a good reason to change everything again.\n\n>... Also, I doubt that they use th3\n>same plates for more than a year\'s printing; this would make it easy\n>to remove the motto (simply make next year\'s plates without it). Your\n>claim, evidently, is that they will have to pay extra somewhere.\n>Provide some evidence for this assertion.\n\nSo, are you saying that they redesign the plates each year?\n\nAnyway, your whole argument (conveniently deleted I see) was that the motto\nsomehow costs us all a lot of money. This is just not correct.\n\n>>The ones I read didn\'t mention anything about Jesus. I think the issue was\n>>concerning the distinction between religion and not.\n>How could it be between religious and not religious? The motto\n>refers to god; it is a religious motto. The question is whether or\n>not it is only christian. You say it is more. I doubt this. Provide\n>some evidence for this assertion.\n\nThat is to say, the religion of this country, and the non-religion of\nthe USSR. That was what most of those quotes were about, and some included\nall atheists, in general, as well. I don\'t think that any of the quotes\n(although I seem to have lost them) mentioned anything at all about Jesus.\nThey advocated religion over non-religion. A specific religion was not\nmentioned.\n\n>>You have missed this point. I said that the motto didn\'t say anything\n>>about anyone in particular. That is, the motto doesn\'t imply anything\n>>about *your* particular beliefs. It doesn\'t say that everyone trusts\n>>in some form of god, only that the nation on the whole does.\n>We have been through this before. It\'s obvious it does not include me;\n>this much is beyond doubt. Your claim, again, is that the motto refers\n>to more than christians. Based on the facts that christianity says all\n>other religions are wrong, and because it seems that the motto was\n>written by christians, I doubt your claim.\n\nSo, you are saying that all Christians must believe that all other religions\nshould be outlawed, just because they think they are wrong? That\'s silly.\nI think the Flat-Earthers are wrong, but I don\'t advocate their banishment.\n\n>[...] Based on this idea I doubt that any additional expense would\n>even be incurred by removing the motto. Provide some evidence for your\n>claim that it would.\n\nI think that any such cost would be insignificant. I mentioned the slight\ncost because you said that the motto was costing us a lot of money by\nbeing on our currency.\n\n>Disregarding the digression of the other motto...If it is used for\n>harassment, and no other purpose has been found for it, why should\n>it not be removed?\n\nWell, mottos in general don\'t really have purposes... I don\'t think it\nshould be removed because I think the benefit would be outweighed by the\nconsequences.\n\n>>And do you know what the vote was? Were there other opinions? Do you\n>>think that the main reason the motto was required by law was to bother\n>>atheists? Do you think that this is what the majority of congress at\n>>the time had in mind? If you do, then show why.\n>Again, it is the opinion of the people who put it there that I am\n>concerned with.\n\nThen you should be concerned with the opinion of the entire congress.\n\n>Again, it is not necessary that the complete majority\n>shared the purpose of confronting \'godless Communism\' with this motto.\n\nWhy not? It is the majority that put it there.\n\n>>The general public probably does not know about the anti-atheist intent\n>>of a few people in the 50\'s either.\n>I daresay more people remember the 50\'s than the time when Key wrote\n>the anthem.\n\nBut do they remember the debate surrounding the motto? Do they remember\nthat some people intended it to be a message against atheists? Why don\'t\nyou include this in your little survey that you were conducting?\n\n[...]\n>You claim here that scientists would believe someone\'s claims. I doubt\n>this. Provide evidence for your assertion.\n\nWhat? Should I ask some scientists the probability that something Einstein\nsaid about relativity is worthy? I mean, if Einstein said it, there\'s a\ngood chance that it was right (at least at the time).\n\n>As for the courts, the\n>method scientists use can be applied. I need not agree with the court\n>by default because of a \'good record.\'\n\nYou need not agree with them all of the time, but you would certainly think\nthat their decisions would be good evidence in favor of some point.\n\n>>What? But you said you didn\'t agree with the court because they "allowed\n>>Congress to attempt to make an amendment prohibiting flag burning." If\n>>you don\'t realize that something like this is external to the realm of\n>>the court\'s power, then how can I be confident that you know *anything*\n>>about the court\'s powers? I mean, if you don\'t know how the court works,\n>>how can you participate in a discussion of the court?\n>A judge can go to speak before Congress. And still you ignore the\n>abortion gag rule, as you make your claims on abortion.\n\nNo, I think that it would be clearly inappropriate for a Supreme Court\nJustice to testify before Congress during the consideration of a\nConstitutional Amendment.\n\nAnd, in order for the Court to rule on something, a case usually must be\npresented.\n\n>>Mushrooms, flowers, trees, buildings, signs, whatever... the analogy is\n>>the same. Just because something that I might find offensive is present\n>>doesn\'t mean that my rights are being violated.\n>We are talking about something put there by people, Keith...not\n>a mushroom. No one caused that mushroom to exist, unless you\'re\n>finding things offensive in a mushroom farm.\n\nYes, some mushrooms can be planted. And, I don\'t appreciate mushrooms on\nmy pizza, either.\n\n>This is not the case\n>with the motto. And you\'re ignoring the harassment which is the\n>only known result of the motto, and you\'re ignoring that somewhere\n>along the line people were forced to put the motto there.\n\nWho was forced to put the motto there? What do you mean?\n\nkeith\n',
'From: boebert@sctc.com (Earl Boebert)\nSubject: Removing Distortion From Bitmapped Drawings?\nOrganization: SCTC\nLines: 47\n\nLet\'s say you have a scanned image of a line drawing; in this case a\nboat, but it could be anything. On the drawing you have a set of\nreference points whose true x,y positions are known. \n\nNow you digitize the drawing manually (in this case, using Yaron\nDanon\'s excellent Digitize program). That is, you use a program which\nconverts cursor positions to x,y and saves those values when you click\nthe mouse.\n\nUpon digitizing you notice that the reference point values that come\nout of the digitizing process differ in small but significant ways\nfrom the known true values. This is understandable because the\nscanned drawing is a reproduction of the original and there are\nsuccessive sources of distortion such as differential expansion and\ncontraction of paper, errors introduced in the printing process,\nscanner errors and what have you.\n\nThe errors are not uniform over the entire drawing, so "global"\nadjustments such as stretching/contracting uniformly over x or y, or\nrotating the whole drawing, are not satisfactory.\n\nSo the question is: does any kind soul know of an algorithm for\nremoving such distortion? In particular, if I have three sets of\npoints \n\nReference(x,y) (the known true values)\n\nDistortedReference(x,y) (the same points, with known errors)\n\nDistortedData(x,y) (other points, with unknown errors)\n\nwhat function of Reference and Distorted could I apply to\nDistortedData to remove the errors.\n\nI suspect the problem could be solved by treating the distorted\nreference points as resulting from the projection of a "bumpy" 3d\nsurface, solving for the surface and then "flattening" it to remove\nthe errors in the other data points.\n\nAny kind and informed soul out there have any ideas, or better yet,\npointers to treatments of the same or similar problems?\n\nThanks,\n\nEarl\n\n\n',
'From: vonwaadn@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu\nSubject: Panic Disorder - more success stories\nOrganization: University of Kansas Academic Computing Services\nLines: 32\n\nI posted this to sci.psychology on April 3, and after seeing\nyour post here on panice disorder thought it would be\nrelevant.\n\n-----\n\nMy research indicates that two schools of thought exist.\nthe literature promoting medication says it\'s the superior\ntreatment. Not surprisingly, literature promoting cognitive\ntherapy also claims to be superior.\n\nWhat are the facts? Early in my research I didn\'t have a\nbias towards either medication or cognitive therapy. I\nwas interested in a treatment that worked. After reading\njournals published after 1986, the cognitive therapy camp\nclaims a higher success rate (approx 80%), a lower drop-out\nrate, and no side effects associated with medication.\n\nLars-Goran Ost published an excellent article titled\n"Applied Relaxation: Description of a coping technique and\na review of controlled studies." This is from Behav. Res. Ther.,\nvol. 25, no. 5, pp. 397-409, 1987. The article provides\ninstructions on how to perform applied relaxation (AR).\nBriefly, you start with two 15 minute sessions daily, and\nprogress in 8-12 weeks to performing 10-15 thirty second sessions\ndaily.\n\nI\'ll snail mail this article to anyone interested (USA only please;\nInternational please pay for postage).\n\nMark\nvonwaadn@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu\n',
'From: myers@cs.scarolina.edu (Daniel Myers)\nSubject: Re: Is MSG sensitivity superstition?\nOrganization: USC Department of Computer Science\nLines: 39\n\nFrequently of late, I have been reacting to something added to\nrestaurant foods. What happens is that the inside of my throat starts\nto feel "puffy", like I have a cold, and also at times the inside of my\nmouth (especially the tongue) and lips also feel puffy.\n\nThe situations around these symptoms almost always involve restaurants\n(usually chinese), the most notable cases: a cheap chinese fast food\nchain, a japanese steak house (I had the steak), and another chinese\nfast food chain where I SAW the cook put about a tablespoon or two of\nwhat looked like sugar or salt into my fried rice.\n\nI am under the impression that MSG "enhances" flavor by causing the\ntaste buds to swell. If this is correct, I do not find it unreasonable\nto assume that high doses of MSG can cause other mouth tissues to swell.\n\nAlso, as the many of the occurances (including two of the above)\ninvolved beef, and as beef is frequently tenderized with MSG, this is\nwhat I suspect as being the cause.\n\nI wouldn\'t be at all surprised if toxicity studies of MSG in animals\nshowed it as being harmless, as it would be very startling to hear a lab\nrat or rhesus monkey complain about their throats feeling funny.\n\nAnyone who wishes to explain how the majority of food additives are\ntotally harmless is welcome to e-mail me with the results of any studied\nthey know of. I will probably respond to them however with a reminder\nof how long it took to prove that smoking causes cancer (which the\ntobacco companies still deny).\n\n- DM\n\n(If I sound grumpy, it\'s because I had beef with broccoli for lunch\ntoday, and now it hurts to swallow)\n\n--\n------------------------------------------------------------------------------\nDan Myers (Madman)\t\t| If the creator had intended us to walk \nmyers@usceast.cs.scarolina.edu\t| upright, he wouldn\'t have given us knuckles\n------------------------------------------------------------------------------\n',
'From: sigma@rahul.net (Kevin Martin)\nSubject: Re: CView answers\nKeywords: Stupid Programming\nNntp-Posting-Host: bolero\nOrganization: a2i network\nLines: 26\n\nIn <C5LEvt.1nJ@rahul.net> bryanw@rahul.net (Bryan Woodworth) writes:\n>In <1qlobb$p5a@tuegate.tue.nl> renew@blade.stack.urc.tue.nl (Rene Walter) writes:\n>[Most info regarding dangers of reading from Floppy disks omitted]\n>>unrevcoverable way. SO BE CAREFUL! It is incredibly poor programming for a\n>>program to do this...\n>Nevertheless, it is an important bug that needs to be squashed. I am\n>merely pointing out that it was probably overlooked. While it is serious,\n>one must keep in mind that it will probably affect at most 5% of the\n>targeted users of CView.\n\nOK, I don\'t use CView anymore, but I saw that no one had explaind this\n"bug" in the thread, so here goes:\n\nIt is NOT the fault of CView. It is DOS! If you leave a file open on a\nfloppy drive, then change the disk and do something which updates or closes\nthat file, you have a good chance of getting part of the directory and FAT\nfrom the other disk written to the new disk. This has always been true,\nand has destroyed data under other programs, not just CView.\n\nThe only thing CView can do to improve the situation is to try not to leave\nfiles open unless it\'s actively using them (ie, reading and decoding).\n\n-- \nKevin Martin\nsigma@rahul.net\n"I gotta get me another hat."\n',
'From: karl@anasazi.com (Karl Dussik)\nSubject: Re: Dana-Faber Cancer Institute \nOrganization: Anasazi, Inc. Phoenix, Arizona USA\nKeywords: Dana-Faber Cancer Institute \nLines: 13\n\nIn article <1993Apr14.090306.3352@etek.chalmers.se> e2salim@etek.chalmers.se (Salim Chagan) writes:\n>\tCan anyone send me the adress to \n>\tDana-Faber Cancer Institute in Boston, USA.\n ^^ missing "r"\n\nDana-Farber Cancer Institute\n44 Binney Street\nBoston, MA 02115\n\n(617)732-3000\n\nKarl Dussik\n("Alumnus" - Department of Biostatistics and Epidemiology, 1983-1986)\n',
'From: jayne@mmalt.guild.org (Jayne Kulikauskas)\nSubject: re: Pantheism and Environmentalism\nOrganization: Kulikauskas home\nLines: 31\n\nKEVXU@cunyvm.bitnet writes:\n\n[deleted]\n> first paragraph and the mention of pantheism. Is pantheism "perverted"\n> and "dangerous", or just not one\'s cup of tea? None of this is clear.\n\nI can\'t speak for Mr. Cavano, but I understood his comment to refer to \nthe idea that unrecognized pantheism is dangerous to Christians. If we \nunthinkingly adopt pantheistic ideas that are opposed to Christianity, \nwe can pervert our faith. When we clearly recognize pantheism when we \nencounter it we have the opportunity to embrace what is consistent with \nChristianity and reject what isn\'t. \n\nWe need to be alert, always thinking and questioning. We must examine \nthe underlying assumptions of every book we read, tv program we watch \nand socio-political movement we participate in. Ideas are important. \nPhilosophies and doctrines are what give form to the events of our \nlives. They are the basis from which we live our lives of love and \nservice. The command to love God with all one\'s mind means no fuzzy-\nheaded drifting from idea to idea. \n\n> and that consumerism and our rapacious style of living\n> are so rarely called by their appropriate name: Greed.\n\nOne Christian who acknowledges this is the Pope. It is a frequent theme \nin his writings. Indeed, thoughtful Christians from most traditions \nrecognize that consumerism has no place in the lives of Christians. It \ntoo is a perversion and dangerous to our faith. Thank you, Jack, for \npointing out the parallel. \n\nJayne Kulikauskas/ jayne@mmalt.guild.org\n',
'From: geb@cs.pitt.edu (Gordon Banks)\nSubject: Re: MORBUS MENIERE - is there a real remedy?\nReply-To: geb@cs.pitt.edu (Gordon Banks)\nOrganization: Univ. of Pittsburgh Computer Science\nLines: 39\n\nIn article <lindaeC4JGLK.FxM@netcom.com> lindae@netcom.com writes:\n\n>\n>My biggest resentment is the doctor who makes it seem like most\n>people with dizziness can be cured. That\'s definitely not the\n>case. In most cases, like I said above, it is a long, tedious\n>process that may or may not end up in a partial cure. \n>\n\nBe sure to say "chronic" dizziness, not just dizziness. Most\npatients with acute or subacute dizziness will get better.\nThe vertiginous spells of Meniere\'s will also eventually go\naway, however, the patient is left with a deaf ear.\n\n\n>To anyone suffering with vertigo, dizziness, or any variation\n>thereof, my best advice to you (as a fellow-sufferer) is this...\n>just keep searching...don\'t let the doctors tell you there\'s\n>nothing that can be done...do your own research...and let your\n\nThis may have helped you, but I\'m not sure it is good general\nadvice. The odds that you are going to find some miracle with\nyour own research that is secret or hidden from general knowledge\nfor this or any other disease are slim. When good answers to these\nproblems are found, it is usually in all the newspapers. Until\nthen, spending a great deal of time and energy on the medical\nproblem may divert that energy from more productive things\nin life. A limited amount should be spent to assure yourself\nthat your doctor gave you the correct story, but after it becomes\nclear that you are dealing with a problem for which medicine\nhas no good solution, perhaps the best strategy is to join\nthe support group and keep abreast of new findings but not to\nmake a career out of it.\n\n-- \n----------------------------------------------------------------------------\nGordon Banks N3JXP | "Skepticism is the chastity of the intellect, and\ngeb@cadre.dsl.pitt.edu | it is shameful to surrender it too soon." \n----------------------------------------------------------------------------\n',
'From: jonas-y@isy.liu.se (Jonas Yngvesson)\nSubject: Re: Point within a polygon\nKeywords: point, polygon\nOrganization: Dept of EE, University of Linkoping\nLines: 129\n\nscrowe@hemel.bull.co.uk (Simon Crowe) writes:\n\n>I am looking for an algorithm to determine if a given point is bound by a \n>polygon. Does anyone have any such code or a reference to book containing\n>information on the subject ?\n\nWell, it\'s been a while since this was discussed so i take the liberty of\nreprinting (without permission, so sue me) Eric Haines reprint of the very\ninteresting discussion of this topic...\n\n /Jonas\n\n O / \\ O\n------------------------- X snip snip X ------------------------------\n O \\ / O\n\n"Give a man a fish, and he\'ll eat one day.\nGive a man a fishing rod, and he\'ll laze around fishing and never do anything."\n\nWith that in mind, I reprint (without permission, so sue me) relevant\ninformation posted some years ago on this very problem. Note the early use of\nPostScript technology, predating many of this year\'s papers listed in the\nApril 1st SIGGRAPH Program Announcement posted here a few days ago.\n\n-- Eric\n\n\nIntersection Between a Line and a Polygon (UNDECIDABLE??),\n\tby Dave Baraff, Tom Duff\n\n\tFrom: deb@charisma.graphics.cornell.edu\n\tNewsgroups: comp.graphics\n\tKeywords: P, NP, Jordan curve separation, Ursyhon Metrization Theorem\n\tOrganization: Program of Computer Graphics\n\nIn article [...] ncsmith@ndsuvax.UUCP (Timothy Lyle Smith) writes:\n>\n> I need to find a formula/algorithm to determine if a line intersects\n> a polygon. I would prefer a method that would do this in as little\n> time as possible. I need this for use in a forward raytracing\n> program.\n\nI think that this is a very difficult problem. To start with, lines and\npolygons are semi-algebraic sets which both contain uncountable number of\npoints. Here are a few off-the-cuff ideas.\n\nFirst, we need to check if the line and the polygon are separated. Now, the\nJordan curve separation theorem says that the polygon divides the plane into\nexactly two open (and thus non-compact) regions. Thus, the line lies\ncompletely inside the polygon, the line lies completely outside the polygon,\nor possibly (but this will rarely happen) the line intersects the polyon.\n\nNow, the phrasing of this question says "if a line intersects a polygon", so\nthis is a decision problem. One possibility (the decision model approach) is\nto reduce the question to some other (well known) problem Q, and then try to\nsolve Q. An answer to Q gives an answer to the original decision problem.\n\nIn recent years, many geometric problems have been successfully modeled in a\nnew language called PostScript. (See "PostScript Language", by Adobe Systems\nIncorporated, ISBN # 0-201-10179-3, co. 1985).\n\nSo, given a line L and a polygon P, we can write a PostScript program that\ndraws the line L and the polygon P, and then "outputs" the answer. By\n"output", we mean the program executes a command called "showpage", which\nactually prints a page of paper containing the line and the polygon. A quick\nexamination of the paper provides an answer to the reduced problem Q, and thus\nthe original problem.\n\nThere are two small problems with this approach. \n\n\t(1) There is an infinite number of ways to encode L and P into the\n\treduced problem Q. So, we will be forced to invoke the Axiom of\n\tChoice (or equivalently, Zorn\'s Lemma). But the use of the Axiom of\n\tChoice is not regarded in a very serious light these days.\n\n\t(2) More importantly, the question arises as to whether or not the\n\tPostScript program Q will actually output a piece of paper; or in\n\tother words, will it halt?\n\n\tNow, PostScript is expressive enough to encode everything that a\n\tTuring Machine might do; thus the halting problem (for PostScript) is\n\tundecidable. It is quite possible that the original problem will turn\n\tout to be undecidable.\n\n\nI won\'t even begin to go into other difficulties, such as aliasing, finite\nprecision and running out of ink, paper or both.\n\nA couple of references might be:\n\n1. Principia Mathematica. Newton, I. Cambridge University Press, Cambridge,\n England. (Sorry, I don\'t have an ISBN# for this).\n\n2. An Introduction to Automata Theory, Languages, and Computation. Hopcroft, J\n and Ulman, J.\n\n3. The C Programming Language. Kernighan, B and Ritchie, D.\n\n4. A Tale of Two Cities. Dickens, C.\n\n--------\n\nFrom: td@alice.UUCP (Tom Duff)\nSummary: Overkill.\nOrganization: AT&T Bell Laboratories, Murray Hill NJ\n\nThe situation is not nearly as bleak as Baraff suggests (he should know\nbetter, he\'s hung around The Labs for long enough). By the well known\nDobbin-Dullman reduction (see J. Dullman & D. Dobbin, J. Comp. Obfusc.\n37,ii: pp. 33-947, lemma 17(a)) line-polygon intersection can be reduced to\nHamiltonian Circuit, without(!) the use of Grobner bases, so LPI (to coin an\nacronym) is probably only NP-complete. Besides, Turing-completeness will no\nlonger be a problem once our Cray-3 is delivered, since it will be able to\ncomplete an infinite loop in 4 milliseconds (with scatter-gather.)\n\n--------\n\nFrom: deb@svax.cs.cornell.edu (David Baraff)\n\nWell, sure its no worse than NP-complete, but that\'s ONLY if you restrict\nyourself to the case where the line satisfies a Lipschitz condition on its\nsecond derivative. (I think there\'s an \'89 SIGGRAPH paper from Caltech that\ndeals with this).\n\n--\n------------------------------------------------------------------------------\n J o n a s Y n g v e s s o n email: jonas-y@isy.liu.se\nDept. of Electrical Engineering\t voice: +46-(0)13-282162 \nUniversity of Linkoping, Sweden fax : +46-(0)13-139282\n',
'Subject: Re: Request for Support\nFrom: kmr4@po.CWRU.edu (Keith M. Ryan)\nOrganization: Case Western Reserve University\nNNTP-Posting-Host: b64635.student.cwru.edu\nLines: 16\n\nIn article <1993Apr5.095148.5730@sei.cmu.edu> dpw@sei.cmu.edu (David Wood) writes:\n\n>2. If you must respond to one of his articles, include within it\n>something similar to the following:\n>\n> "Please answer the questions posed to you in the Charley Challenges."\n\n\tAgreed.\n\n--\n\n\n "Satan and the Angels do not have freewill. \n They do what god tells them to do. "\n\n S.N. Mozumder (snm6394@ultb.isc.rit.edu) \n',
"From: cheinan@access.digex.com (Cheinan Marks)\nSubject: Re: Please Recommend 3D Graphics Library For Mac.\nOrganization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, MD USA\nLines: 100\nNNTP-Posting-Host: access.digex.net\nX-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]\n\n: Robert G. Carpenter writes:\n\n: >Hi Netters,\n: >\n: >I'm building a CAD package and need a 3D graphics library that can handle\n: >some rudimentry tasks, such as hidden line removal, shading, animation, etc.\n: >\n: >Can you please offer some recommendations?\n: >\n: >I'll also need contact info (name, address, email...) if you can find it.\n: >\n: >Thanks\n: >\n: >(Please Post Your Responses, in case others have same need)\n: >\n: >Bob Carpenter\n: >\n\nThe following is extracted from sumex-aim.stanford.edu. It should also be on\nthe mirrors. I think there is source for some applications that may have some\nbearing on your project. Poke around the source directory. I've never used\nthis package, nor do I know anyone who did, but the price is right :-)\n\nHope this helps.\n\n\t\t\t\t\tCheinan\n\nAbstracts of files as of Thu Apr 1 03:11:39 PST 1993\nDirectory: info-mac/source\n\n#### BINHEX 3d-grafsys-121.hqx ****\n\nDate: Fri, 5 Mar 93 14:13:07 +0100\nFrom: Christian Steffen Ove Franz <cfranz@iiic.ethz.ch>\nTo: questions@mac.archive.umich.edu\nSubject: 3d GrafSys 1.21 in incoming directory\nA 3d GrafSys short description follows:\n\nProgrammers 3D GrafSys Vers 1.21 now available. \n\nVersion 1.21 is mainly a bugfix for THINK C users. THIS VERSION\nNOW RUNS WITH THINK C, I PROMISE! The Docs now contain a chapter for\nC programmers on how to use the GrafSys. If you have problems, feel free \nto contact me.\nThe other change is that I removed the FastPerfTrig calls from\nthe FPU version to make it run faster.\n\nThose of you who don't know what all this is about, read on.\n\n********\n\nProgrammers 3D GrafSys -- What it is:\n-------------------------------------\n\nDidn't you always have this great game in mind where you needed some way of \ndrawing three-dimensional scenes? \n\nDidn't you always want to write this program that visualized the structure \nof three-dimensional molecules?\n\nAnd didn't the task of writing your 3D conversions routines keep you from \nactually doing it?\n\nWell if the answer to any of the above questions is 'Yes, but what has it to \ndo with this package???' , read on.\n\nGrafSys is a THINK Pascal/C library that provides you with simple routines \nfor building, saving, loading (as resources), and manipulating \n(independent rotating around arbitrary achses, translating and scaling) \nthree dimensional objects. Objects, not just simple single-line drawings.\n\nGrafSys supports full 3D clipping, animation and some (primitive) hidden-\nline/hidden-surface drawing with simple commands from within YOUR PROGRAM.\n\nGrafSys also supports full eye control with both perspective and parallel\nprojections (If you can't understand a word, don't worry, this is just showing\noff for those who know about it. The docs that come with it will try to explain\nwhat it all means later on). \n\nGrafSys provides a powerful interface to supply your own drawing routines with\ndata so you can use GrafSys to do the 3D transformations and your own routines\nto do the actual drawing. (Note that GrafSys also provides drawing routines so\nyou don't have to worry about that if you don't want to)\n\nGrafSys 1.11 comes in two versions. One for the 881 and 020 or above \nprocessors. The other version uses fixed-point arithmetic and runs on any Mac.\nBoth versions are *100% source compatibel*. \n\nGrafSys comes with an extensive manual that teaches you the fundamentals of 3D\ngraphics and how to use the package.\n\nIf demand is big enough I will convert the GrafSys to an object-class library. \nHowever, I feelt that the way it is implemented now makes it easier to use for\na lot more people than the select 'OOP-Guild'.\n\nGrafSys is free for any non-commercial usage. Read the documentation enclosed.\n\n\nEnjoy,\nChristian Franz\n",
'From: noring@netcom.com (Jon Noring)\nSubject: Re: Good Grief! (was Re: Candida Albicans: what is it?)\nOrganization: Netcom Online Communications Services (408-241-9760 login: guest)\nLines: 26\n\nIn article romdas@uclink.berkeley.edu (Ella I Baff) writes:\n\n> >If anybody, doctors included, said to me to my face that there is no\n> >evidence of the \'yeast connection\', I cannot guarantee their safety.\n> >For their incompetence, ripping off their lips is justified as far as\n> >I am concerned.\n>\n>This doesn\'t sound like Candida Albicans to me.\n\nNo, just a little anger. Normally I don\'t rip people\'s lips off, except\nwhen my candida has overcolonized and I become: "Fungus Man"! :^)\n\nJon\n\n-- \n\nCharter Member --->>> INFJ Club.\n\nIf you\'re dying to know what INFJ means, be brave, e-mail me, I\'ll send info.\n=============================================================================\n| Jon Noring | noring@netcom.com | |\n| JKN International | IP : 192.100.81.100 | FRED\'S GOURMET CHOCOLATE |\n| 1312 Carlton Place | Phone : (510) 294-8153 | CHIPS - World\'s Best! |\n| Livermore, CA 94550 | V-Mail: (510) 417-4101 | |\n=============================================================================\nWho are you? Read alt.psychology.personality! That\'s where the action is.\n',
'From: jbrown@batman.bmd.trw.com\nSubject: Re: Origins of the bible.\nLines: 56\n\nIn article <1993Apr19.141112.15018@cs.nott.ac.uk>, eczcaw@mips.nott.ac.uk (A.Wainwright) writes:\n> Hi,\n> \n> I have been having an argument about the origins of the bible lately with\n> a theist acquaintance. He stated that thousands of bibles were discovered\n> at a certain point in time which were syllable-perfect. This therefore\n> meant that there must have been one copy at a certain time; the time quoted\n> by my acquaintace was approximately 50 years after the death of Jesus.\n\nHi Adda,\n\nMost Bible scholars agree that there was one copy of each book at a certain\ntime -- the time when the author wrote it. Unfortunately, like all works\nfrom this time period and earlier, all that exists today are copies. \n\n> \n> Cutting all of the crap out of the way (ie god wrote it) could anyone answer\n> the following:\n> \n> 1. How old is the oldest surviving copy of the new testament?\n\nThere are parts of books, scraps really, that date from around the\nmid second century (A.D. 130+). There are some complete books, letters,\netc. from the middle third century. The first complete collection of\nthe New Testament dates from the early 4th century (A.D. 325). Throughout\nthis period are writings of various early church fathers/leaders who\nquoted various scriptures in their writings.\n\n> 2. Is there any truth in my acquaintance\'s statements?\n\nIf you mean that someone discovered thousands of "Bibles" which were all\nperfect copies dating from the last part of the 1st century...No!\n\nIf you mean that there are thousands of early manuscripts (within the\ndates given above, but not letter perfect) and that the most probable\ntext can be reconstructed from these documents and that the earliest\noriginal autographs (now lost) probably were written starting sometime\nshortly after A.D. 50, then yes.\n\n> 3. From who/where did the bible originate?\n\nFrom the original authors. We call them Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, Peter,\nPaul, James, and one other not identified.\n\n> 4. How long is a piece of string? ;-)\n\nAs long as you make it.\n\n> \n> Adda\n> \n> -- \n\nRegards,\n\nJim B.\n',
'From: db7n+@andrew.cmu.edu (D. Andrew Byler)\nSubject: Re: Serbian genocide Work of God?\nOrganization: Freshman, Civil Engineering, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA\nLines: 61\n\nVera Shanti Noyes writes;\n\n>this is what indicates to me that you may believe in predestination.\n>am i correct? i do not believe in predestination -- i believe we all\n>choose whether or not we will accept God\'s gift of salvation to us.\n>again, fundamental difference which can\'t really be resolved.\n\nOf course I believe in Predestination. It\'s a very biblical doctrine as\nRomans 8.28-30 shows (among other passages). Furthermore, the Church\nhas always taught predestination, from the very beginning. But to say\nthat I believe in Predestination does not mean I do not believe in free\nwill. Men freely choose the course of their life, which is also\naffected by the grace of God. However, unlike the Calvinists and\nJansenists, I hold that grace is resistable, otherwise you end up with\nthe idiocy of denying the universal saving will of God (1 Timothy 2.4). \nFor God must give enough grace to all to be saved. But only the elect,\nwho he foreknew, are predestined and receive the grace of final\nperserverance, which guarantees heaven. This does not mean that those\nwithout that grace can\'t be saved, it just means that god foreknew their\nobstinacy and chose not to give it to them, knowing they would not need\nit, as they had freely chosen hell.\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t ^^^^^^^^^^^\nPeople who are saved are saved by the grace of God, and not by their own\neffort, for it was God who disposed them to Himself, and predestined\nthem to become saints. But those who perish in everlasting fire perish\nbecause they hardened their heart and chose to perish. Thus, they were\ndeserving of God;s punishment, as they had rejected their Creator, and\nsinned against the working of the Holy Spirit.\n\n>yes, it is up to God to judge. but he will only mete out that\n>punishment at the last judgement. \n\nWell, I would hold that as God most certainly gives everybody some\nblessing for what good they have done (even if it was only a little),\nfor those He can\'t bless in the next life, He blesses in this one. And\nthose He will not punish in the next life, will be chastised in this one\nor in Purgatory for their sins. Every sin incurs some temporal\npunishment, thus, God will punish it unless satisfaction is made for it\n(cf. 2 Samuel 12.13-14, David\'s sin of Adultery and Murder were\nforgiven, but he was still punished with the death of his child.) And I\nneed not point out the idea of punishment because of God\'s judgement is\nquite prevelant in the Bible. Sodom and Gommorrah, Moses barred from\nthe Holy Land, the slaughter of the Cannanites, Annias and Saphira,\nJerusalem in 70 AD, etc.\n\n> if jesus stopped the stoning of an adulterous woman (perhaps this is\nnot a >good parallel, but i\'m going to go with it anyway), why should we\nnot >stop the murder and violation of people who may (or may not) be more\n>innocent?\n\nWe should stop the slaughter of the innocent (cf Proverbs 24.11-12), but\ndoes that mean that Christians should support a war in Bosnia with the\nU.S. or even the U.N. involved? I do not think so, but I am an\nisolationist, and disagree with foreign adventures in general. But in\nthe case of Bosnia, I frankly see no excuse for us getting militarily\ninvolved, it would not be a "just war." "Blessed" after all, "are the\npeacemakers" was what Our Lord said, not the interventionists. Our\nactions in Bosnia must be for peace, and not for a war which is\nunrelated to anything to justify it for us.\n\nAndy Byler\n',
'From: maridai@comm.mot.com (Marida Ignacio)\nSubject: Re: Every Lent He suffers to save us\nOrganization: trunking_fixed\nLines: 59\n\nThe story I related is one of the seven apparitions\napproved by our Church as worthy of belief. It happened\nin La Salle, France.\n\nThe moral lesson of the story is:\n\nThe Lamb of God has been sacrificed and His blood has \nbeen used to cleanse us of our sins every moment as God perceives\nworthy of being done in Heaven. Mary weeps for The Lamb and\nfor the rest of her offsprings. This will continue while we \ndisobey God or sin against Him. Mary, as a messenger, \nhas been given the task to make us be \'aware\' of the evil\nserpent (communism, wars, famine, unfaithful, disobedience\nto God, etc.) running after the rest of her offsprings. \nThe children who went astray by disobedience led by the dragon is \nbrought back by her peace and loving messages, reparations for sins, \nto obey God\'s commandments and be more worthy to be in the presence \nof The Lamb.\n\nAs she was conceived without sin to be worthy of bearing the\nSon of God in her womb, Mary has been preparing us, the Church,\nthe Body of Christ, for His second coming (making sure we are \nprotected from the dragon). Also, she has been preparing the new \nEden, by reversing the deed of the ancient Eve. The new Eden will be\nthe sanctuary of the righteous as judged by Christ in His\nnext coming.\n \nI relate the story again:\n I believe this and Mary, in one of her apparitions \n in 19th or 20th century, she appeared to these \n two children who tends goats and cows (I forgot \n the exact place). She was weeping and telling the \n children that she is afraid she\'s "going to lose her\n Son\'s arm". She is mourning too for these \n townfolks because it was their fault that there \n would be drought in their harvest; not much good \n food again this year as it was last year. \n \n Mary tells the children: \n* Most of the townfolks in this place worked whole *\n* week even on Sundays when they should be in church *\n* honoring God. These townfolks swears and *\n* uses her Son\'s name in bad words. That is *\n why her Son\'s arm is so heavy in pain. \n Then she asked them if they pray. The children \n said "hardly". She asked them to pray every \n morning and night. When the children went back \n from work they had to tell somebody about this. \n When the news was spred and after thorough \n* investigation of the incident, the townfolks *\n* were converted and faith and obedience to God *\n* were restored in their community. *\n\n\nOnce again, the Lamb succeeds.\n\n-Marida\n "...spreading God\'s words through actions..."\n -Mother Teresa\n',
'From: ehgasm2@uts.mcc.ac.uk (Simon Marshall)\nSubject: How do I compensate for photographic viewpoint and distortion?\nReply-To: S.Marshall@dcs.hull.ac.uk\nOrganization: Manchester Computing Centre, Manchester, England\nLines: 42\n\nHi to all out there. We have this problem, and I\'m not certain I\'m solving it\nin the correct way. I was wondering if anyone can shed light on this, or point\nme in the right place to look...\n\nWe have an X-ray imaging camera and a metallic tube with a cylindrical hole\npassing through it at a right angle to the tube\'s axis:\n\n |\n || [ image\n |\n X-ray source ] || | screen\n metallic || tube |\n || |\n |\n\nWe know source--screen centre distance, radius of the tube, radius of the hole.\n\nWe do some calculations based on the image of the hole on the screen. However,\nthe calculations are mathematically highly complex, and must assume that the\nobject\'s hole projects an image (resembling an ellipse if the tube is not\nparallel to the screen) in the centre of the screen. However, it is unlikely\nthat the object is placed so conveniently. \n\nFirstly, we must transform the major and minor axis of the ellipse. I cannot\nknow what the angle between the tube and screen is. Do I have to assume that\nthey are parallel to do the transformation? How do I do this transformation?\n\nSecondly, there is a distortion of the image due to the screen being planar\n(the source--screen distance increases as we move away from the centre of the\nscreen). How can I compensate the ellipse\'s axis for this image distortion?\n\nSo, please can anyone give us a few pointers here? How do we transform the\nimage so it appears as it would if it were in the centre of the screen, and how\ndo I deal with distortion due to the shape of the screen?\n\nWe\'d appreciate any help, either posted or emailed.\n\nThanks in advance, Simon.\n-- \nSimon Marshall, Dept. of Computer Science, University of Hull, Hull HU6 7RX, UK\n "Football isn\'t about life and death. It\'s more important than that." Bill\nEmail: S.Marshall@cs.hull.ac.uk Phone: +44 482 465951 Fax: 466666 Shankley\n',
"From: halat@pooh.bears (Jim Halat)\nSubject: Re: A silly question on x-tianity\nReply-To: halat@pooh.bears (Jim Halat)\nLines: 23\n\nIn article <1993Apr14.175557.20296@daffy.cs.wisc.edu>, mccullou@snake2.cs.wisc.edu (Mark McCullough) writes:\n\n>Sorry to insult your homestate, but coming from where I do, Wisconsin\n>is _very_ backwards. I was never able to understand that people actually\n>held such bigoted and backwards views until I came here.\n\nI have never been to Wisconsin, though I have been to\nneighbor Minnesota. Being a child of the Middle Atlantic (NY, NJ, PA)\nI found that there were few states in the provences that stood\nout in this youngster's mind: California, Texas, and Florida to \nname the most obvious three. However, both Minnesota and Wisconsin\nstuck out, solely on the basis of their politics. Both have \nalways translated to extremely liberal and progressive states.\nAnd my recent trip to Minnestoa last summer served to support that\nstate's reputation. My guess is that Wisconsin is probably the\nsame. At least that was the impression the people of Minnesota left\nwith me about their neighbors.\n\nThe only question in my head about Wisconsin, though, is \nwhether or not there is a cause-effect relationship between\ncheese and serial killers :)\n\n-jim halat\n",
'From: CBW790S@vma.smsu.edu.Ext (Corey Webb)\nSubject: Re: HELP!!! GRASP\nOrganization: SouthWest Mo State Univ\nLines: 29\nNNTP-Posting-Host: vma.smsu.edu\nX-Newsreader: NNR/VM S_1.3.2\n\nIn article <1993Apr19.160944.20236W@baron.edb.tih.no>\nhavardn@edb.tih.no (Haavard Nesse,o92a) writes:\n>\n>Could anyone tell me if it\'s possible to save each frame\n>of a .gl (grasp) animation to .gif, .jpg, .iff or any other\n>picture formats.\n>\n \n If you have the GRASP animation system, then yes, it\'s quite easy.\nYou simply use GLIB to extract the image (each "frame" in a .GL is\nactually a complete .PCX or .CLP file), then use one of MANY available\nutilities to convert it. If you don\'t have the GRASP package, I\'m afraid\nI can\'t help you. Sorry.\n By the way, before you ask, GRASP (GRaphics Animation System for\nProfessionals) is a commercial product that sells for just over US$300\nfrom most mail-order companies I\'ve seen. And no, I don\'t have it. :)\n \n \n Corey Webb\n \n \n ____________________________________________________________________\n | Corey Webb | "For in much wisdom is much grief, and |\n | cbw790s@vma.smsu.edu | he that increaseth knowledge increaseth |\n | Bitnet: CBW790S@SMSVMA | sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 |\n |-------------------------|------------------------------------------|\n | The "S" means I am only | "But first, are you experienced?" |\n | speaking for myself. | -- Jimi Hendrix |\n \n',
"From: steveq@DIALix.oz.au (Steve Quartly)\nSubject: WANTED: SIRD Alogorythmn\nSummary: WANTED: A Sird Alogorythmn\nKeywords: Sird\nArticle-I.D.: DIALix.1praaa$pqv\nOrganization: DIALix Services, Perth, Western Australia\nLines: 12\nNNTP-Posting-Host: localhost.dialix.oz.au\nX-Newsreader: NN version 6.4.19 #1\n\nHi,\n\nI'm interested in writing a program to generate a SIRD picture, you know\nthe stereogram where you cross your eyes and the picture becomes 3D.\n\nDoes anyone have one or know where I can get one?\n\nPlease e-mail to steveq@sndcrft.DIALix.oz.au with any replies.\n\nMany thanks for your help.\n\nSteve Q.\n",
'From: "Robert Knowles" <p00261@psilink.com>\nSubject: Re: Islamic marriage?\nIn-Reply-To: <C51CJp.1LF8@austin.ibm.com>\nNntp-Posting-Host: 127.0.0.1\nOrganization: Kupajava, East of Krakatoa\nX-Mailer: PSILink-DOS (3.3)\nLines: 44\n\n>DATE: Tue, 6 Apr 1993 00:11:49 GMT\n>FROM: F. Karner <karner@austin.ibm.com>\n>\n>In article <1993Apr2.103237.4627@Cadence.COM>, mas@Cadence.COM (Masud Khan) writes:\n>> In article <C4qAv2.24wG@austin.ibm.com> karner@austin.ibm.com (F. Karner) writes:\n>> >\n>> >Okay. So you want me to name names? There are obviously no official\n>> >records of these pseudo-marriages because they are performed for\n>> >convenience. What happens typically is that the woman is willing to move\n>> >in with her lover without any scruples or legal contracts to speak of. \n>> >The man is merely utilizing a loophole by entering into a temporary\n>> >religious "marriage" contract in order to have sex. Nobody complains,\n>> >nobody cares, nobody needs to know.\n>> >\n>> >Perhaps you should alert your imam. It could be that this practice is\n>> >far more widespread than you may think. Or maybe it takes 4 muslim men\n>> >to witness the penetration to decide if the practice exists!\n>> >-- \n>> >\n>> \n>> Again you astound me with the level of ignorance you display, Muslims\n>> are NOT allowed to enter temporary marriages, got that? There is\n>> no evidence for it it an outlawed practise so get your facts \n>> straight buddy. Give me references for it or just tell everyone you\n>> were lying. It is not a widespread as you may think (fantasise) in\n>> fact contrary to your fantasies it is not practised at all amongst\n>> Muslims.\n\nDid you miss my post on this topic with the quote from The Indonesian\nHandbook and Fred Rice\'s comments about temporary marriages? If so, \nI will be glad to repost them. Will you accept that it just may be \na practice among some Muslims, if I do? Or will you continue to claim\nthat we are all lying and that it is "not practised at all amongst Muslims".\n\nI don\'t think F. Karner has to tell everyone anything. Least of all that\nhe is lying.\n\nSince you obviously know nothing about this practice, there is very little\nyou can contribute to the discussion except to accuse everyone of lying.\nPerhaps it is your ignorance which is showing. Learn more about Islam.\nLearn more about Muslims. Open your eyes. Maybe you will also see some\nof the things the atheists see.\n\n\n',
'From: johnm@spudge.lonestar.org (John Munsch)\nSubject: Re: Rumours about 3DO ???\nOrganization: /etc/organization\nLines: 16\n\nIn article <loT1rAPNBh107h@viamar.UUCP> rutgers!viamar!kmembry writes:\n>Read Issue #2 of Wired Magazine. It has a long article on the "hype" of\n>3DO. I\'ve noticed that every article talks with the designers and how\n>"great" it is, but never show any pictures of the output (or at least\n>pictures that one can understand)\n\nGamepro magazine published pictures a few months ago and Computer Chronicles\n(a program that is syndicated to public tv stations around the nation) spent\nseveral minutes on it when it was shown at CES. It was very impressive what\nit can do in real time.\n\nJohn Munsch\n\nP.S. Don\'t take that to mean that I believe that the system is going to take\nover the world or something. Just that it clearly has a lot more horsepower\nthan any of the VIS, CD-I, Sega CD, or Turbo Duo crowd.\n',
'From: ejalbert@husc3.harvard.edu\nSubject: Re: Monophysites and Mike Walker\nOrganization: Harvard University Science Center\nLines: 113\n\nIn article <May.6.00.34.58.1993.15426@geneva.rutgers.edu>, db7n+@andrew.cmu.edu (D. Andrew Byler) writes:\n>>\t\t- Mike Walker \n>> \n>>[If you are using the standard formula of fully God and fully human,\n>>that I\'m not sure why you object to saying that Jesus was human. I\n>>think the usual analysis would be that sin is not part of the basic\n>>definition of humanity. It\'s a consequence of the fall. Jesus is\n>>human, but not a fallen human. --clh]\n> \nI differ with our moderator on this. I thought the whole idea of God coming\ndown to earth to live as one of us "subject to sin and death" (as one of\nthe consecration prayers in the Book of Common Prayer (1979) puts it) was\nthat Jesus was tempted, but did not succumb. If sin is not part of the\nbasic definition of humanity, then Jesus "fully human" (Nicea) would not\nbe "subject to sin", but then the Resurrection loses some of its meaning,\nbecause we encounter our humanity most powerfully when we sin. To distinguish\nbetween "human" and "fallen human" makes Jesus less like one of us at the\ntime we need him most.\n\n> [These issues get mighty subtle. When you see people saying different\n> things it\'s often hard to tell whether they really mean seriously\n> different things, or whether they are using different terminology. I\n> don\'t think there\'s any question that there is a problem with\n> Nestorius, and I would agree that the saying Christ had a human form\n> without a real human nature or will is heretical. But I\'d like to be\n> a bit wary about the Copts, Armenians, etc. Recent discussions\n> suggest that their monophysite position may not be as far from\n> orthodoxy as many had thought. Nestorius was an extreme\n> representative of one of the two major schools of thought. More\n> moderate representatives were regarded as orthodox, e.g. Theodore of\n> Mopsuestia. My impression is that the modern monophysite groups\n> inherit the entire tradition, not just Nestorius\' version, and that\n> some of them may have a sufficient balanced position to be regarded as\n> orthodox. --clh]\n\nFirst, the Monophysites inherited none of Nestorius\'s version -- they \nwere on the opposite end of the spectrum from him. Second, the historical\nrecord suggests that the positions attributed to Nestorius were not as\nextreme as his (successful) opponents (who wrote the conventional history)\nclaimed. Mainly Nestorius opposed the term Theotokos for Mary, arguing\n(I think correctly) that a human could not be called Mother of God. I mean,\nin the Athanasian Creed we talk about the Son "uncreate" -- surely even \nArians would concede that Jesus existed long before Mary. Anyway, Nestorius\'s\nopponents claimed that by saying Mary was not Theotokos, that he claimed\nthat she only gave birth to the human nature of Jesus, which would require\ntwo seperate and distinct natures. The argument fails though, because\nMary simply gave birth to Jesus, who preexisted her either divinely,\nif you accept "Nestorianism" as commonly defined, or both natures intertwined,\na la Chalcedon.\n\nSecond, I am not sure that "Nestorianism" is not a better alternative than\nthe orthodox view. After all, I find it hard to believe that pre-Incarnation\nthat Jesus\'s human nature was in heaven; likewise post-Ascension. I think\nrather that God came to earth and took our nature upon him. It was a seperate\nnature, capable of being tempted as in Gethsemane (since I believe the divine\nnature could never be tempted) but in its moments of weakness the divine nature\nprevailed.\n\nComments on the above warmly appreciated.\n\nJason Albert\n\n[There may be differences in what we mean by "subject to sin". The\noriginal complaint was from someone who didn\'t see how we could call\nJesus fully human, because he didn\'t sin. I completely agree that\nJesus was subject to temptation. I simply object to the idea that by\nnot succumbing, he is thereby not fully human. I believe that you do\nnot have to sin in order to be human.\n\nI again apologize for confusing Nestorianism and monophysitism. I\nagree with you, and have said elsewhere, that there\'s reason to think\nthat not everyone who is associated with heretical positions was in\nfact heretical. There are scholars who maintain that Nestorius was\nnot Nestorian. I have to confess that the first time I read some of\nthe correspondence between Nestorius and his opponents, I thought he\ngot the better of them.\n\nHowever, most scholars do believe that the work that eventually led to\nChalcedon was an advance, and that Nestorius was at the very least\n"rash and dogmatic" (as the editor of "The Christological Controversy"\nrefers to him) in rejecting all approaches other than his own. As\nregular Usenet readers know, narrowness can be just as much an\nimpediment as being wrong. Furthermore, he did say some things that I\nthink are problematical. He responds to a rather mild letter from\nCyril with a flame worthy of Usenet. In it he says "To attribute also\nto [the Logos], in the name of [the incarnation] the characteristics\nof the flesh that has been conjoined with him ... is, my brother,\neither the work of a mind which truly errs in the fashion of the\nGreeks or that of a mind diseased with the insane heresy of Arius and\nApollinaris and the others. Those who are thus carried away with the\nidea of this association are bound, because of it, to make the divine\nLogos have a part in being fed with milk and participate to some\ndegree in growh and stand in need of angelic assistance because of his\nfearfulness ... These things are taken falsely when they are put off\non the deity and they become the occasion of just condemnation for us\nwho perpetrate the falsehood."\n\nIt\'s all well and good to maintain a proper distinction between\nhumanity and divinity. But the whole concept of incarnation is based\non exactly the idea that the divine Logos does in fact have "to some\ndegree" a part in being born, growing up, and dying. Of course it\nmust be understood that there\'s a certain indirectness in the Logos\'\nparticipation in these things. But there must be some sort of\nidentification between the divine and human, or we don\'t have an\nincarnation at all. Nestorius seemed to think in black and white\nterms, and missed the sorts of nuances one needs to deal with this\narea.\n\nYou say "I find it hard to believe that pre-Incarnation that Jesus\'s\nhuman nature was in heaven." I don\'t think that\'s required by\northodox doctrine. It\'s the divine Logos that is eternal.\n\n--clh]\n',
'From: johnsd2@rpi.edu (Dan Johnson)\nSubject: Re: The arrogance of Christians\nReply-To: johnsd2@rpi.edu\nOrganization: not Sun Microsystems\nLines: 148\n\nIn article 1328@geneva.rutgers.edu, gt7122b@prism.gatech.edu (boundary) writes:\n>dleonar@andy.bgsu.edu (Pixie) writes:\n[deletia- sig]\n>> p.s. If you do sincerely believe that a god exists, why do you follow\n>>it blindly? \n>> Do the words "Question Authority" mean anything to you?\n>> I defy any theist to reply. \n>\n\n[deletia- formalities]\n\nI probably should let this pass, it\'s not worth the time, and it\'s not\nreally intended for me. But I couldn\'t resist. A personal weakness of mine.\nJerkius Kneeus. Tragically incurable.\n\n>The foundation for faith in God is reason, without which the existence\n>of God could not be proven. That His existence can be proven by reason\n>is indisputable (cf. my short treatise, "Traditional Proofs for the \n>Existence of God," and Summa Theologica).\n\nNot so; I can prove that the existance of God is disputable\nby showing that people dispute it; This is easy: I dispute that\nGod exists. Simple.\n\nI missed your "Traditional Proofs" treatise, but the proofs I remember\nfrom the Summa Theologic (the 5 ways I think it was) were rather poor\nstuff. The Ontological argument is about a billion times better, imho.\n\nI would think you\'d want non-traditional proofs, considering the general\nfailure of the traditional proofs: at least the ones I know of.\n(I am thinking of the Ontological Argument, the Cosmological Argument and\nthe Teleological argument. Those are the ones traditional enough to\nhave funny names, anyway.)\n\n>Now, given that God exists, and that His existence can be proven by reason,\n>I assert that His commands must be followed blindly, although in our fallen\n>condition we must always have some measure of doubt about our faith. Why?\n\nThis is the real question. So to discuss it, I\'ll assume God exists.\nOtherwise, there is no heavenly authority to babble about.\n\n>Because God is the First Cause of all things, the First Mover of matter,\n>the Independent Thing that requires nothing else for its existence, the\n>Measure of all that is perfect, and the essential Being who gives order\n>to the universe (logos).\n\nPlease show this is the case. I am familiar with the First Cause\nargument, and I\'ll accept (for the sake of argument) that there\nis a First Cause, even though I find some of its premices\nquestionable. The rest you\'ll have to show. This includes\nthat the First Cause is God.\n\n>I next assert that God is all good.\n\nGot it. I deny that God is all good. So there.\n\n> If this is so, then that which is\n>contrary to the will of God is evil; i.e., the absence of the good. And,\n>since God can never contradict Himself, then by His promise of a Savior\n>as early as the Protoevangelium of Genesis 3:5, God instructs that because\n>a human (Adam) was first responsible for man\'s alienation from the Source\n>of all good, a man would be required to act to restore the friendship.\n>Thus God became incarnate in the person of the Messiah.\n\nThis isn\'t self-consistent: if humans must renew the relationship,\nthen God (incarnate or not) can\'t do it. Well, unless you think God is\nhuman. Granted, God made himself \'human\', but this is nonetheless cheating:\nThe intent of the statement is clearly that man has to fix the problem\nhe caused. God fixing it- even by indirect means- contradicts this.\n\n>Now this Messiah claimed that He is the Truth (John 14:6). If this claim\n>is true, then we are bound by reason to follow Him, who is truth incarnate.\n\nWhy?\n\nAlso, why assume said claim is true anyway?\n\nIf *I* claim to be Truth, are you bound by reason to follow me?\n\n>You next seem to have a problem with authority. Have you tried the United\n>States Marine Corps yet? I can tell you first-hand that it is an excellent\n>instructor in authority.\n\n:)\n\nUndoubtably. Do you mean to imply we should all obey the commands of the\nMarines without question? You seem to imply this about God, and\nthat the Marines are similar in this respect.. If this is not what\nyou are trying to say, they please explain what it is you are saying,\nas I have missed it.\n\n> If you have not yet had the privilege, I will\n>reply that the authority which is Truth Incarnate may never be questioned,\n>and thus must be followed blindly.\n\nWhy? Why not question it? Even if it *is* truth, we cannot know this\ncertainly, so why is it so irrational to question? Perhaps we will\nthus discover that we were wrong.\n\nYou assert that God is Truth and we can\'t question Truth. But\nI assert that God is not Truth and anyway we can question Truth.\nHow is it my assertion is less good than yours?\n\n> One may NOT deny the truth.\n\nOh?\n\nI hereby deny 1+1=2.\n\nI hope you\'ll agree 1+1=2 is the truth.\n\nGranted, I look pretty damn silly saying something like that,\nbut I needed something we\'d both agree was clearly true.\n\nNow, you\'ll notice no stormtroopers have marched in to drag\nme off to the gulag. No heaven lighting bolts either. No mysterious\nnet outages. I seem to be permited to say such things, absurd or not.\n\n> For\n>example, when the proverbial apple fell on Isaac Newton\'s head, he could\n>have denied that it happened, but he did not. The laws of physics must\n>be obeyed whether a human likes them or not. They are true. \n\nThey are certainly not true. At least, the ones Newton derived are\nnot true, and are indeed wildly inaccurate at high speeds or small\ndistances. We do not have a set of Laws of Physics that always\nworks in all cases. If we did, Physics would be over already.\n\nScience is all about Questioning this sort of truth. If we didn\'t,\nwe\'d still follow Aristotle. I\'d generalize this a little more:\nIf you want to learn anything new, you MUST question the things\nyou Know (tm). Because you can always be wrong.\n\n>Therefore, the Authority which is Truth may not be denied.\n\nEven presupposing that Truth may not be Denied, and may\nnot be Questioned, and that God is Truth, it only follows\nthat God may not be Denied or Questioned. NOT that he must\nbe obeyed!\n\nWe could unquestioningly DISobey him. How annoying of us.\nBut you have not connected denial with disobedience.\n\n---\n\t\t\t- Dan "No Nickname" Johnson\nAnd God said "Jeeze, this is dull"... and it *WAS* dull. Genesis 0:0\n\nThese opinions probably show what I know.\n',
'From: td@alice.att.com (Tom Duff)\nSubject: Re: TIFF: philosophical significance of 42\nArticle-I.D.: alice.25335\nOrganization: AT&T Bell Laboratories, Murray Hill NJ\nLines: 3\n\nulrich@galki.toppoint.de wrote:\n> Does anyone have any other suggestions where the 42 came from?\nForty-two is six times nine.\n',
"From: se92psh@brunel.ac.uk (Peter Hauke)\nSubject: Re: TIFF: philosophical significance of 42\nOrganization: Brunel University, Uxbridge, UK\nX-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]\nLines: 20\n\njoachim lous (joachim@kih.no) wrote:\n: ulrich@galki.toppoint.de wrote:\n\n: > Does anyone have any other suggestions where the 42 came from?\n\nYep, here's a theory that I once heard bandied around. Rather than thinking\nof the number think of the sound. For Tea Two. A sort of anagram on Tea For Two,\nTwo for Tea, For Tea Two.\n\n:-)\n\nPeter\n\n\n-- \n***********************************\n* Peter Hauke @ Brunel University *\n*---------------------------------*\n* se92psh@brunel.ac.uk *\n***********************************\n",
'From: matthews@Oswego.EDU (Harry Matthews)\nSubject: Re: GETTING AIDS FROM ACUPUNCTURE NEEDLES\nReply-To: matthews@oswego.Oswego.EDU (Harry Matthews)\nOrganization: Instructional Computing Center, SUNY at Oswego, Oswego, NY\nLines: 22\n\nIn article <1r4f8b$euu@agate.berkeley.edu> romdas@uclink.berkeley.edu (Ella I Baff) writes:\n>\n> someone wrote in expressing concern about getting AIDS from acupuncture\n> needles.....\n>\n>Unless your friend is sharing fluids with their acupuncturist who \n>themselves has AIDS..it is unlikely (not impossible) they will get AIDS \n>from acupuncture needles. Generally, even if accidently inoculated, the normal\n>immune response should be enough to effectively handle the minimal contaminant \n>involved with acupuncture needle insertion. \n>\nIsn\'t this what HIV is about - the "normal immune response" to an exposure?\n\n>Most acupuncturists use disposable needles...use once and throw away.\n\nI had electrical pulse nerve testing done a while back. The needles were taken\nfrom a dirty drawer in an instrument cart and were most certainly NOT\nsterile or even clean for that matter. More than likely they were fresh\nfrom the previous patient. I WAS concerned, but I kept my mouth shut. I\nprobably should have raised hell!\n\nAny comments? No excuses.\n',
'From: ab@nova.cc.purdue.edu (Allen B)\nSubject: Re: comp.graphics.programmer\nOrganization: Purdue University\nLines: 26\n\nIn article <1qukk7INNd4l@no-names.nerdc.ufl.edu> lioness@maple.circa.ufl.edu \nwrites:\n> However, that is almost overkill. Something more like this would probably\n> make EVERYONE a lot happier:\n> \n> comp.graphics.programmer\n> comp.graphics.hardware\n> comp.graphics.apps\n> comp.graphics.misc\n\nThat\'s closer, but I dislike "apps". "software" (vs. "hardware")\nwould be better. Would that engulf alt.graphics.pixutils? Or would\nthat be "programmer"?\n\nI don\'t know if traffic is really heavy enough to warrant a newsgroup\nsplit. Look how busy comp.graphics.research is (not).\n\nIt\'s true that a lot of the traffic here is rehashing FAQs and\ndiscussing things that would probably be better diverted to\nsystem-specific groups, but I don\'t know whether a split would help\nor hurt that cause.\n\nMaybe we need a comp.graphics.RTFB for all those people who can\'t be\nbothered to read the fine books out there. Right, Dr. Rogers? :-)\n\nab\n',
'From: noye@midway.uchicago.edu (vera shanti noyes)\nSubject: Re: harrassed at work, could use some prayers\nReply-To: noye@midway.uchicago.edu\nOrganization: University of Chicago\nLines: 22\n\ni\'d just like to repeat and emphasize that because someone else is\ntrying to make you feel horrible and worthless does not mean that you\nshould feel that way, although that\'s easier to say than believe\nsometimes. remember, God made you and loves you, so he must think\nyou\'re something special. (excuse the trite language here.) also,\nthe bully may just be someone who is mean for no reason -- not out of\nintentional mental torture. has anyone else been harassed? maybe\nthey\'re just not talking about it. \n\ni would have emailed but my reactions weren\'t fast enough and the post\ni\'m responding to didn\'t include your address. just take courage and\nremember that all of us on the net are rooting for you.\n\ntake care!\nvera\n_______________________________________________________________________________\nHand over hand\t\t\t\tnoye@midway.uchicago.edu\nDoesn\'t seem so much\t\t\t(Vera Noyes)\nHand over hand\t\t\t\t\nIs the strength of the common touch\tdrop me a line if you\'re in the mood\n\t- Rush, "Hand Over Fist"\n_______________________________________________________________________________\n',
"From: jil@donuts0.uucp (Jamie Lubin)\nSubject: Re: eye dominance\nOrganization: Bellcore, Piscataway, NJ\nLines: 14\n\nIn article <19671@pitt.UUCP> geb@cs.pitt.edu (Gordon Banks) writes:\n>In article <C5E2G7.877@world.std.com> rsilver@world.std.com (Richard Silver) writes:\n>>\n>>Is there a right-eye dominance (eyedness?) as there is an\n>>overall right-handedness in the population? I mean do most\n>>people require less lens corrections for the one eye than the\n>>other? If so, what kinds of percentages can be attached to this?\n>\n>There is eye dominance same as handedness (and usually for the\n>same side). It has nothing to do with refractive error, however.\n\nI recall reading/seeing that former baseball star Chris Chambliss' hitting\nabilities were (in part) attributed to a combination of left-handedness &\nright-eye dominance.\n",
"From: patrick@Erc.MsState.Edu (Patrick Bridges)\nSubject: Re: Diamond Stelth 24- any good?\nIn-Reply-To: hintmatt@cwis.isu.edu's message of 23 Apr 1993 07:24:32 -0600\nNntp-Posting-Host: andy.erc.msstate.edu\nOrganization: /merlin-home2/patrick/.organization\nLines: 7\n\nThe real problem w/ the Stealth from what I've heard is that Diamond won't\ntell anyone how to program their proprietary clock stuff, so X under Linux\nand 386BSD won't run....\n\n\n\t\t\t\t\tPatrick Bridges\n\t\t\t\t\tpatrick@erc.msstate.edu\n",
'From: backon@vms.huji.ac.il\nSubject: Re: diet for Crohn\'s (IBD)\nDistribution: usa,world\nOrganization: The Hebrew University of Jerusalem\nLines: 52\n\nIn article <1993Apr22.202051.1@vms.ocom.okstate.edu>, banschbach@vms.ocom.okstate.edu writes:\n> In article <1r6g8fINNe88@ceti.cs.unc.edu>, jge@cs.unc.edu (John Eyles) writes:\n>>\n>> A friend has what is apparently a fairly minor case of Crohn\'s\n>> disease.\n>>\n>> But she can\'t seem to eat certain foods, such as fresh vegetables,\n>> without discomfort, and of course she wants to avoid a recurrence.\n>>\n>> Her question is: are there any nutritionists who specialize in the\n>> problems of people with Crohn\'s disease ?\n>>\n>> (I saw the suggestion of lipoxygnase inhibitors like tea and turmeric).\n>>\n>> Thanks in advance,\n>> John Eyles\n>\n> All your friend really has to do is find a Registered Dietician(RD). While\n> most work in hospitals and clinics, many major cities will have RD\'s who\n> are in "private practice" so to speak. Many physicans will refer their\n> patients with Crohn\'s disease to RD\'s for dietary help. If you can get\n> your friend\'s physician to make a referral, medical insurance should pay for\n> the RD\'s services just like the services of a physical therapist. The\n> better medical insurance plans will cover this but even if your friend\'s\n> plan doesn\'t, it would be well worth the cost to get on a good diet to\n> control the intestinal discomfort and help the intestinal lining heal.\n> Crohn\'s disease is an inflammatory disease of the intestinal lining and\n> lipoxygenase inhibitors may help by decreasing leukotriene formation but\n> I\'m not aware of tea or turmeric containing lipoxygenase inhibitors. For\n\n\nIf you do a MEDLINE search on "turmeric" you\'ll see that it is a potent\nlipoxygenase inhibitor which is being investigated in a number of areas.\nI\'m in cardiology and about 4 years ago the cardiothoracic surgery lab at my\nhospital compared the effect of a teaspoon of dissolved turmeric vs. a $2000\nbolus of tPA in preventing myocardial reperfusion injury in a perfused\nLangendorff sheep heart. The turmeric was more effective :-)\n\n\nA colleague of mine in the School of Pharmacy (Dr. Ron Kohen) has a paper "in\npress" on the free radical scavenging activity and antioxidant activity of tea.\n\nJosh\nbackon@VMS.HUJI.AC.IL\n\n\n> bad inflammation, steroids are used but for a mild case, the side effects\n> are not worth the small benefit gained by steroid use. Upjohn is developing\n> a new lipoxygenase inhibitor that should greatly help deal with\n> inflammatory diseases but it\'s not available yet.\n>\n> Marty B.\n',
'From: jhpb@sarto.budd-lake.nj.us (Joseph H. Buehler)\nSubject: Re: SSPX schism ?\nOrganization: none\nLines: 182\n\nHere is some material by Michael Davies on the subject of schism in\ngeneral and Archishop Lefebvre in particular. He wrote it around\n1990. The first part of the two-part article was on the scandalous\nactivities of Archbishop Weakland (in this country), but I cut all\nthat. And I pared down the rest to what was relevant.\n\nJoe Buehler\n\n...\n\nSchism and Disobedience\n\nAccording to St. Thomas Aquinas, schism consists primarily in a\nrefusal of submission to the Pope or communion with the members of the\nChurch united to him. On first sight it would appear that, whatever\nthe subjective motivation of the Archbishop, as discussed above, he\nmust be in a state of objective schism as he has refused to submit to\nthe Pope on a very grave matter involving his supreme power of\njurisdiction. However, standard Catholic textbooks of theology make it\nclear that while all schisms involve disobedience not all acts of\ndisobedience are schismatic. If this were so, as was noted at the\nbeginning of this article, it would mean that the number of American\nbishops who are not schismatic would not reach double figures.\n\nThe distinction between disobedience and schism is made very clear in\nthe article on schism in the very authoritative Dictionnaire de\nTheologie Catholique. The article is by Father Yves Congar who is\ncertainly no friend of Archbishop Lefebvre. He explains that schism\nand disobedience are so similar that they are often confused. Father\nCongar writes that schism involves a refusal to accept the existence\nof legitimate authority in the Church, for example, Luther\'s rejection\nof the papacy. Father Congar explains that the refusal to accept a\ndecision of legitimate authority in a particular instance does not\nconstitute schism but disobedience. The Catholic Encyclopedia\nexplains that for a Catholic to be truly schismatic he would have to\nintend "to sever himself from the Church as far as in him lies." It\nadds that "not every disobedience is schism; in order to possess this\ncharacter it must include besides the transgression of the command of\nthe superiors, a denial of their divine right to command."Not only\ndoes Mgr. Lefebvre not deny the divine right of the Pope to command,\nbut he affirms repeatedly his recognition of the Pope\'s authority and\nhis intention of never breaking away from Rome. The Archbishop made\nhis attitude clear in the July/August 1989 issue of 30 Days: "We pray\nfor the Pope every day. Nothing has changed with the consecrations\nlast June 30. We are not sedevacantists. We recognize in John Paul II\nthe legitimate Pope of the Catholic Church. We don\'t even say that he\nis a heretical Pope. We only say that his Modernist actions favor\nheresy."\n\n...\n\nIntrinsically Schismatic?\n\nThe principal argument used by those claiming that Mgr. Lefebvre is in\nschism is that the consecration of a bishop without a papal mandate is\nan intrinsically schismatic act. A bishop who carries out such a\nconsecration, it is claimed, becomes ipso facto a schismatic. This is\nnot true. If such a consecration is an intrinsically schismatic act it\nwould always have involved the penalty of excommunication. In the 1917\nCode of Canon Law the offence was punished only by suspension (see\nCanon 2370 of the 1917 Code). Pope Pius XII had raised the penalty to\nexcommunication as a response to the establishment of a schismatic\nchurch in China. The consecration of these illicit Chinese bishops\ndiffered radically from the consecrations carried out by Mgr. Lefebvre\nas the professed intention was to repudiate the authority of the Pope,\nthat is, to deny that he has the right to govern the Church, and the\nillicitly consecrated Chinese bishops were given a mandate to exercise\nan apostolic mission. Neither Archbishop Lefebvre nor any of the\nbishops he has consecrated claim that they have powers of\njurisdiction. They have been consecrated solely for the purpose of\nensuring the survival of the Society by carrying out ordinations and\nalso to perform confirmations. I do not wish to minimize in any way\nthe gravity of the step take by Mgr. Lefebvre. The consecration of\nbishops without a papal mandate is far more serious matter than the\nordination of priests as it involves a refusal in practice of the\nprimacy or jurisdiction belonging by divine right to the Roman\nPontiff. But the Archbishop could argue that the crisis afflicting the\nChurch could not be more grave, and that grave measures were needed in\nresponse.\n\nIt appears to be taken for granted by most of the Archbishop\'s critics\nthat he was excommunicated for the offense of schism, and the Vatican\nhas certainly been guilty of fostering this impression. There is not\nso much as a modicum of truth in this allegation. The New Code of\nCanon Law includes a section beginning with Canon 1364 entitled\n"Penalties for Specific Offenses" (De Poenis in Singula Dicta). The\nfirst part deals with "Offenses against Religion and the Unity of the\nChurch" (De Delictis contra Religionem et Ecclesiae Unitatem). Canon\n1364 deals with the offense of schism which is, evidently, together\nwith apostasy and heresy, one of the three fundamental offenses\nagainst the unity of the Church.\n\nBut the Archbishop was not excommunicated under the terms of this\ncanon or, indeed, under any canon involving an offense against\nreligion or the unity of the church. The canon cited in his\nexcommunication comes from the third section of "Penalties for\nSpecific Offenses" which is entitled "Usurpation of Ecclesial\nFunctions and Offenses in their Exercise" (De Munerum Ecclesiasticorum\nUsurpatione Degue Delictis iniis Exercendis). The canon in question is\nCanon 1382, which reads: "A bishop who consecrates someone bishop and\nthe person who receives such a consecration from a bishop without a\npontifical mandate incur an automatic (latae sententiae)\nexcommunication reserved to the Holy See."\n\nThe scandalous attempts to smear Archbishop Lefebvre with the offense\nof schism are, then, contrary to both truth and charity. A comparable\nsmear under civil as opposed to ecclesiastical law would certainly\njustify legal action for libel involving massive damages. An accurate\nparallel would be to state that a man convicted of manslaughter had\nbeen convicted of first degree murder.\n\nI must stress that what I have written here is not the dubious opinion\nof laymen unversed in the intricacies of Canon Law. Canon lawyers\nwithout the least shred of sympathy for Mgr. Lefebvre have repudiated\nthe charge of schism made against him as totally untenable. Father\nPatrick Yaldrini, Dean of the Faculty of Canon Law of the Institut\nCatholique in Paris noted in the 4 July 1988 issue of Valeurs\nactuelles that, as I have just explained, Mgr. Lefebvre was not\nexcommunicated for schism but for the usurpation of an ecclesiastical\nfunction. He added that it is not the consecration of a bishop which\nconstitutes schism but the conferral of an apostolic mission upon the\nillicitly consecrated bishop. It is this usurpation of the powers of\nthe sovereign pontiff which proves the intention of establishing a\nparallel Church.\n\nCardinal Rosalio Lara, President of the Pontifical Commission for the\nAuthentic Interpretation of Canon Law, commented on the consecrations\nin the 10 July 1988 issue of la Repubblica. It would be hard to\nimagine a more authoritative opinion. The Cardinal wrote:\n\n The act of consecrating a bishop (without a papal mandate) is not\n in itself a schismatic act. In fact, the Code that deals with\n offenses is divided into two sections. One deals with offenses\n against religion and the unity of the Church, and these are\n apostasy, schism, and heresy. Consecrating a bishop with a\n pontifical mandate is, on the contrary, an offense against the\n exercise of a specific ministry. For example, in the case of the\n consecrations carried out by the Vietnamese Archbishop Ngo Dinh\n Thuc in 1976 and 1983, although the Archbishop was excommunicated\n he was not considered to have committed a schismatic act because\n there was no intention of a breach with the Church.\n\n....\n\nIt is not simply unjust but ludicrous to suggest that in consecrating\nbishops without a papal mandate Archbishop Lefebvre had the least\nintent of establishing a schismatic church. He is not a schismatic and\nwill never be a schismatic. The Archbishop considers correctly that\nthe the Church is undergoing its worst crisis since the Arian heresy,\nand that for the good of the Church it was necessary for him to\nconsecrate the four bishops to ensure the future of his Society. Canon\nLaw provides for just such a situation, and even if one believes that\nthe future of the Society could have been guaranteed without these\nconsecrations, the fact that the Archbishop believed sincerely that it\ncould not means, as Canon Law states clearly, that he has not incurred\nexcommunication. Furthermore, while the Vatican allows such prelates\nas Archbishop Weakland to undermine the Faith with impunity it cannot\nexpect Catholics to pay the least attention to its sanctions against a\ngreat and orthodox Archbishop whose entire life has been devoted to\nthe service of the Church and the salvation of souls.\n\nDr. Eric M. de Saventhem, President of the International Una Voce\nAssociation, is one of the best informed laymen in the Church, and he\nknows the Archbishop intimately. Dr. de Saventhem, like myself, has no\ngreater desire than to see a reconciliation between Mgr. Lefebvre and\nthe Holy See during the Archbishop\'s lifetime. A quotation from a\nstatement by Dr. de Saventhem which was published in the 15 February\n1989 Remnant merits careful study:\n\n In retrospect, the road leading to the consecrations of 30 June\n appears more paved with grave Roman (and, unfortunately, also\n papal) omissions than with Lefebvrist "obstinancies." And from the\n eyes of an informed public this cannot be hidden by attempting to\n present the Archbishop\'s act of grave disobedience as an offense\n against the Faith! It is said--today--that Mgr. Lefebvre has "an\n erroneous concept of Tradition." If this were so, Cardinal\n Ratzinger could not, on behalf of the Pope, have addressed to the\n Archbishop the following words in his letter of 28 July 1987:\n "Your ardent desire to safeguard Tradition by procuring for it\n \'the means to live and prosper\' testifies to your attachment to\n the Faith of all time... the Holy Father understands your concern\n and shares it."\n',
'From: jaeger@buphy.bu.edu (Gregg Jaeger)\nSubject: Re: The Inimitable Rushdie\nOrganization: Boston University Physics Department\nLines: 35\n\nIn article <1993Apr15.135650.28926@st-andrews.ac.uk> nrp@st-andrews.ac.uk (Norman R. Paterson) writes:\n\n>I don\'t think you\'re right about Germany. My daughter was born there and\n>I don\'t think she has any German rights eg to vote or live there (beyond the\n>rights of all EC citizens). She is a British citizen by virtue of\n>her parentage, but that\'s not "full" citizenship. For example, I don\'t think\n>her children could be British by virtue of her in the same way.\n\nI am fairly sure that she could obtain citizenship by making an\napplication for it. It might require immigration to Germany, but\nI am almost certain that once applied for citizenship is inevitable\nin this case.\n\n>More interesting is your sentence, \n\n>>In fact, many people try to come to the US to have their children\n>>born here so that they will have some human rights.\n\n>How does the US compare to an Islamic country in this respect? Do people\n>go to Iran so their children will have some human rights? Would you?\n\nMore interesting only for your propaganda purposes. I have said several\ntimes now that I don\'t consider Iran particularly exemplary as a good\nIslamic state. We might talk about the rights of people in "capitalist\nsecular" third world countries to give other examples of the lack of\nrights in third world countries broadly. Say, for example, Central\nAmerican secular capitalist countries whose govt\'s the US supports\nbut who Amnesty International has pointed out are human rights vacua.\n\n\nGregg\n\n\n\n\n',
'From: marshall@csugrad.cs.vt.edu (Kevin Marshall)\nSubject: Re: some thoughts.\nOrganization: Virginia Tech Computer Science Dept, Blacksburg, VA\nLines: 72\nNNTP-Posting-Host: csugrad.cs.vt.edu\nKeywords: Dan Bissell\n\nbissda@saturn.wwc.edu (DAN LAWRENCE BISSELL) writes:\n\n>\tSome reasons why he wouldn\'t be a liar are as follows. Who would \n>die for a lie? Wouldn\'t people be able to tell if he was a liar? People \n>gathered around him and kept doing it, many gathered from hearing or seeing \n>someone who was or had been healed. Call me a fool, but I believe he did \n>heal people. \n\nAnyone who dies for a "cause" runs the risk of dying for a lie. As for\npeople being able to tell if he was a liar, well, we\'ve had grifters and\ncharlatans since the beginning of civilization. If David Copperfield had\nbeen the Messiah, I bet he could have found plenty of believers. \nJesus was hardly the first to claim to be a faith healer, and he wasn\'t the\nfirst to be "witnessed." What sets him apart?\n\n>\tNiether was he a lunatic. Would more than an entire nation be drawn \n>to someone who was crazy. Very doubtful, in fact rediculous. For example \n>anyone who is drawn to David Koresh is obviously a fool, logical people see \n>this right away.\n\nRubbish. Nations have followed crazies, liars, psychopaths, and \nmegalomaniacs throughout history. Hitler, Tojo, Mussolini, Khomeini,\nQadaffi, Stalin, Papa Doc, and Nixon come to mind...all from this century.\nKoresh is a non-issue.\n\n\n>\tTherefore since he wasn\'t a liar or a lunatic, he must have been the \n>real thing. \n\nTake a discrete mathematics or formal logic course. There are flaws in your\nlogic everywhere. And as I\'m sure others will tell you, read the FAQ!\n\n\n>\tSome other things to note. He fulfilled loads of prophecies in \n>the psalms, Isaiah and elsewhere in 24 hrs alone. This in his betrayal \n>and Crucifixion. I don\'t have my Bible with me at this moment, next time I \n>write I will use it.\n\nOf course, you have to believe the Bible first. Just because something is\nwritten in the Bible does not mean it is true, and the age of that tome plus\nthe lack of external supporting evidence makes it less credible. So if you\ndo quote from the Bible in the future, try to back up that quote with \nsupporting evidence. Otherwise, you will get flamed mercilessly.\n\n\n>\tI don\'t think most people understand what a Christian is. It \n>is certainly not what I see a lot in churches. Rather I think it \n>should be a way of life, and a total sacrafice of everything for God\'s \n>sake. He loved us enough to die and save us so we should do the \n>same. Hey we can\'t do it, God himself inspires us to turn our lives \n>over to him. That\'s tuff and most people don\'t want to do it, to be a \n>real Christian would be something for the strong to persevere at. But \n>just like weight lifting or guitar playing, drums, whatever it takes \n>time. We don\'t rush it in one day, Christianity is your whole life. \n>It is not going to church once a week, or helping poor people once in \n>a while. We box everything into time units. Such as work at this \n>time, sports, Tv, social life. God is above these boxes and should be \n>carried with us into all these boxes that we have created for \n>ourselves. \t \n\nJust like weight lifting or guitar playing, eh? I don\'t know how you \ndefine the world "total," but I would imagine a "total sacrafice [sp]\nof everything for God\'s sake" would involve more than a time commitment.\n\nYou are correct about our tendency to "box everything into time units."\nWould you explain HOW one should involove God in sports and (hehehe)\ntelevision?\n-- \n--- __ _______ ---\n||| Kevin Marshall \\ \\/ /_ _/ Computer Science Department |||\n||| Virginia Tech \\ / / / marshall@csugrad.cs.vt.edu |||\n--- Blacksburg, Virginia \\/ /_/ (703) 232-6529 ---\n',
"From: swkirch@sun6850.nrl.navy.mil (Steve Kirchoefer)\nSubject: Re: Can't Breathe\nArticle-I.D.: ra.C526Hv.LCL\nOrganization: Naval Research Laboratory (Electronics Science and Technology Division)\nLines: 17\n\nGetting back to the original question in this thread:\n\nI experienced breathing difficulties a few years ago similar to those\ndescribed. In my case, it turned out that I was developing Type I\ndiabetes. Although I never sought direct confirmation of this from my\ndoctor, I think that the breathing problem was associated with the\npresence of ketones due to the diabetes.\n\nI think that ketosis can occur in lesser degree if one is restricting\ntheir food intake drastically. I don't know if this relevant in this\ncase, but you might ask your daughter if she has been eating\nproperly.\n-- \nSteve Kirchoefer (202) 767-2862\nCode 6851 kirchoefer@estd.nrl.navy.mil\nNaval Research Laboratory Microwave Technology Branch\nWashington, DC 20375-5000 Electronics Sci. and Tech. Division\n",
'From: b8!anthony@panzer.b17b.ingr.com (new user)\nSubject: Re: The doctrine of Original Sin\nOrganization: Intergraph\nLines: 24\n\nIn article <May.2.09.48.32.1993.11721@geneva.rutgers.edu>, db7n+@andrew.cmu.edu (D. Andrew Byler) writes:\n|> Beyt (BCG@thor.cf.ac.uk) writes:\n|> \n|>\n|> 4) "Nothing unclean shall enter [heaven]" (Rev. 21.27). Therefore,\n|> babies are born in such a state that should they die, they are cuf off\n|> from God and put in hell,\n\nOh, that must explain Matthew 18:\n\n1) In that hour came the disciples unto Jesus, saying, "Who then is greatest in\nthe kingdom of heaven?"\n2) And he called to him a little child, and set him in the midst of them,\n3) and said, "Verily I say unto you, Except ye turn, and become as little\nchildren, ye shall in no wise enter into the kingdom of heaven.\n14) Even so it is not the will of your father who is in heaven, that one of these\nlittle ones should perish.\n\nNice thing about the Bible, you don\'t have to invent a bunch of convoluted\nrationalizations to understand it, unlike your arguments for original sin. Face\nit, original sin was thought up long after the Bible had been written and has no\nbasis from the scriptures.\n\nAnthony\n',
'From: pmoloney@maths.tcd.ie (Paul Moloney)\nSubject: Re: Record burning...\nOrganization: Somewhere in the Twentieth Century\nLines: 23\n\nrgolder@hoh.mbl.edu (Robert Golder) writes:\n\n>The movie version\n>of "The Last Temptation of Christ" was so awful that practically no one\n>would have seen it, or been influenced by its message, had not\n>conservatives loudly protested its distribution. They unwittingly\n>created a larger market for the movie.\n\nIn many places, Christians were sucessful in their attempts\nto get the films banned, or at least given a very restrictive \nshowing.\n\nI have no problem with Christians burning their own pieces of\nart (though I find it a tragic waste). I do however have a \nproblem with their attempts to censor what I may or may not\nview.\n\nP.\n-- \n moorcockpratchettdenislearydelasoulu2iainmbanksneworderheathersbatmanpjorourke\nclive p a u l m o l o n e y Come, let us retract the foreskin of misconception\njames trinity college dublin and apply the wire brush of enlightenment - GeoffM\n brownbladerunnersugarcubeselectronicblaylockpowersspikeleekatebushhamcornpizza \n',
'From: XOPR131@maccvm.corp.mot.com (Gerald McPherson)\nSubject: Re: Am I going to Hell?\nLines: 42\n\nIn <Apr.23.02.55.31.1993.3123@geneva.rutgers.edu>\nTim asks:\n\n>I have stated before that I do not consider myself an atheist, but\n>definitely do not believe in the christian god. The recent discussion\n>about atheists and hell, combined with a post to another group (to the\n>effect of \'you will all go to hell\') has me interested in the consensus\n>as to how a god might judge men. As a catholic, I was told that a jew,\n>buddhist, etc. might go to heaven, but obviously some people do not\n>believe this. Even more see atheists and pagans (I assume I would be\n>lumped into this category) to be hellbound. I know you believe only\n>god can judge, and I do not ask you to, just for your opinions.\n>\n This is probably too simplistic for some, but John 3:16 saus,\n "For God so loved the world that He gave His only son, that\n whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life".\n\n Genesis 15:6, "And he (Abram) believed the LORD; and He reckoned\n it to him as righteousness".\n\n I don\'t find anywhere that God restricts heaven to particular\n ethnic groups or religious denominations or any other category\n that we humans like to drop people into. But He does REQUIRE\n that we believe and trust Him. In Hebrews it says that God spoke\n of old by the prophets (the old testament), but in these last days\n he has spoken to us by His son Jesus Christ. And we learn of\n Him through the pages of the New Testament. The Bible tells us\n what we need to believe. For those who have never heard, I leave\n them in God\'s capable care, He will make himself known as he\n desires. It behooves each one of us to act upon the knowledge\n we have. If you reject the claims of Jesus, and still go to\n heaven, then the joke\'s on me. If you reject him and go to hell,\n that\'s no joke, but it will be final.\n\n\n Gerry\n\n ============================\n The opinions expressed\n are not necessarily those\n of my employer.\n ============================\n',
'From: Nigel@dataman.demon.co.uk (Nigel Ballard)\nSubject: Re: Sarchoidosis \nDistribution: world\nOrganization: Infamy Inc.\nReply-To: Nigel@dataman.demon.co.uk\nX-Newsreader: Simple NEWS 1.90 (ka9q DIS 1.21)\nLines: 34\n\n>> Hello,\n>>Does anybody know if sarchoidosis is a mortem desease ?\n>>(i.e if someone who tooke this desease can be kill\n>>bye this one ?)\n>\n>People have died from sarcoid, but usually it is not\n>fatal and is treatable.\n>----------------------------------------------------------------------------\n>Gordon Banks N3JXP | "Skepticism is the chastity of the intellect, and\n>geb@cadre.dsl.pitt.edu | it is shameful to surrender it too soon." \n>----------------------------------------------------------------------------\n\nHi there\nI\'m suffering from Sarcoidosis at present. Although it\'s shown as a\nchronic & rare tissue disorder, it is thankfully NOT life threatening.\n\nThe very worsed thing that can happen to a non-treated sufferer is\nglaucoma. My specialists are bombarding me with Prednisolone E.C. (a\ncortico-steriod) and after four months at 20mg a day, it\'s totally done\naway with my enlarged lymph glands, so somethings happening for the\ngood!\n\nCheers Nigel\n\n ************************************************************************\n * NIGEL BALLARD | INT: nigel@dataman.demon.co.uk | MEXICAN FOOD *\n * BOURNEMOUTH | CIS: 100015.2644 RADIO-G1HOI | GUINNESS ON TAP *\n * UNITED KINGDOM | AMAZING! and all down two wires | TALL SKINNY WOMEN *\n ************************************************************************\n Two penguins are walking along an iceberg. The first penguin turns to\n the second penguin and says "it looks like you are wearing a tuxedo."\n The second penguin turns to the first penguin and says, "maybe I am."\n ************************************************************************\n\n',
'From: erich@fi.gs.com (Erich Schlaikjer)\nSubject: character recognition\nNntp-Posting-Host: raider\nReply-To: schlae@aron01.gs.com\nOrganization: Goldman, Sachs & Co\nX-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]\nLines: 7\n\n Is there any program available (free or otherwise) for taking a tiff or gif\nor some other bitmapped file and turning it (or parts of it) into ascii\ncharacters?\n\n DOS, OS/2 or platform independent programs if possible.\n\n Thanks.\n',
'From: eb3@world.std.com (Edwin Barkdoll)\nSubject: Re: Blindsight\nOrganization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA\nLines: 64\n\nIn article <19382@pitt.UUCP> geb@cs.pitt.edu (Gordon Banks) writes:\n>In article <werner-240393161954@tol7mac15.soe.berkeley.edu> werner@soe.berkeley.edu (John Werner) writes:\n>>In article <19213@pitt.UUCP>, geb@cs.pitt.edu (Gordon Banks) wrote:\n>>> \n>>> Explain. I thought there were 3 types of cones, equivalent to RGB.\n>>\n>>You\'re basically right, but I think there are just 2 types. One is\n>>sensitive to red and green, and the other is sensitive to blue and yellow. \n>>This is why the two most common kinds of color-blindness are red-green and\n>>blue-yellow.\n>>\n>\n>Yes, I remember that now. Well, in that case, the cones are indeed\n>color sensitive, contrary to what the original respondent had claimed.\n\n\n\tI\'m not sure who the "original respondent" was but to\nreiterate cones respond to particular portions of the spectrum, just\nas _rods_ respond to certain parts of the visible spectrum (bluegreen\nin our case, reddish in certain amphibia), just as the hoseshoe crab\n_Limulus polyphemus_ photoreceptors respond to a certain portion of\nthe spectrum etc. It is a common misconception to confound wavelength\nspecificity with being color sensitive, however the two are not\nsynonymous.\n\tSo in sum and to beat a dead horse:\n\t(1) When the outputs of a cone are matched for number of\nabsorbed photons _irrespective_ of the absorbed photons wavelength,\nthe cone outputs are _indistinguishable_.\n\t(2) Cones are simply detectors with different spectral\nsensitivities and are not any more "color sensitive" than are rods,\nommatidia or other photoreceptors.\n\t(3) Color vision arises because outputs of receptors which\nsample different parts of the spectrum (cones in this case) are\n"processed centrally". (The handwave is intentional)\n\n\tI\'ve worked and published research on rods and cones for over\n10 years so the adherence to the belief that cones can "detect color"\nis frustrating. But don\'t take my word for it. I\'m reposting a few\nexcellent articles together with two rather good but oldish color\nvision texts.\n\nThe texts:\nRobert Boynton (1979) _Human Color Vision_ Holt, Rhiehart and Winston\n\nLeo M. Hurvich (1981) _Color Vision_, Sinauer Associates.\n\n\nThe original articles:\nBaylor and Hodgkin (1973) Detection and resolution of visual stimuli by\nturtle phoreceptors, _J. Physiol._ 234 pp163-198.\n\nBaylor Lamb and Yau (1978) Reponses of retinal rods to single photons.\n_J. Physiol._ 288 pp613-634.\n\nSchnapf et al. (1990) Visual transduction in cones of the monkey\n_Macaca fascicularis_. J. Physiol. 427 pp681-713.\n\n-- \nEdwin Barkdoll\nbarkdoll@lepomis.psych.upenn.edu\neb3@world.std.com\n-- \nEdwin Barkdoll\neb3@world.std.com\n',
'From: livesey@solntze.wpd.sgi.com (Jon Livesey)\nSubject: Re: Yet more Rushdie [Re: ISLAMIC LAW]\nOrganization: sgi\nLines: 31\nNNTP-Posting-Host: solntze.wpd.sgi.com\n\nIn article <115565@bu.edu>, jaeger@buphy.bu.edu (Gregg Jaeger) writes:\n|> In article <1qi3l5$jkj@fido.asd.sgi.com> livesey@solntze.wpd.sgi.com (Jon Livesey) writes:\n|> \n|> >I hope an Islamic Bank is something other than BCCI, which\n|> >ripped off so many small depositors among the Muslim\n|> >community in the Uk and elsewhere.\n|> \n|> >jon.\n|> \n|> Grow up, childish propagandist.\n\nGregg, I\'m really sorry if having it pointed out that in practice\nthings aren\'t quite the wonderful utopia you folks seem to claim\nthem to be upsets you, but exactly who is being childish here is \nopen to question.\n\nBBCI was an example of an Islamically owned and operated bank -\nwhat will someone bet me they weren\'t "real" Islamic owners and\noperators? - and yet it actually turned out to be a long-running\nand quite ruthless operation to steal money from small and often\nquite naive depositors.\n\nAnd why did these naive depositors put their life savings into\nBCCI rather than the nasty interest-motivated western bank down\nthe street? Could it be that they believed an Islamically owned \nand operated bank couldn\'t possibly cheat them? \n\nSo please don\'t try to con us into thinking that it will all \nwork out right next time.\n\njon.\n',
'From: ske@pkmab.se (Kristoffer Eriksson)\nSubject: Re: Science and methodology (was: Homeopathy ... tradition?)\nKeywords: science errors Turpin NLP\nOrganization: Peridot Konsult i Mellansverige AB, Oerebro, Sweden\nLines: 14\n\nIn article <1quqlgINN83q@im4u.cs.utexas.edu> turpin@cs.utexas.edu (Russell Turpin) writes:\n> My definition is this: Science is the investigation of the empirical\n>that avoids mistakes in reasoning and methodology discovered from previous\n>work.\n\nReading this definition, I wonder: when should you recognize something\nas being a "mistake"? It seems to me, that proponents of pseudo-sciences\nmight have their own ideas of what constitutes a "mistake" and which\ndiscoveries of such previous mistakes they accept.\n\n-- \nKristoffer Eriksson, Peridot Konsult AB, Stallgatan 2, S-702 26 Oerebro, Sweden\nPhone: +46 19-33 13 00 ! e-mail: ske@pkmab.se\nFax: +46 19-33 13 30 ! or ...!mail.swip.net!kullmar!pkmab!ske\n',
'From: MNHCC@cunyvm.bitnet (Marty Helgesen)\nSubject: Public/Private Revelation (formerly Re: Question about Virgin Mary\nOrganization: City University of New York\nLines: 35\n\nMark Ashley\'s account of private revelation does not, as some might\nthink, contradict my posting in which I said that the Catholic Church\nbelieves that public revelation, on which Catholic doctrine is based,\nended with the death of St. John, the last Apostle. In that posting\nI made sure I used the word "public". Public revelation contains\nGod\'s truth intended for everyone to believe. The revelation contained\nin the Bible is a significant subset of public revelation. Private\nrevelation is revelation that God gives to an individual. He may speak\ndirectly to the individual, He may send an angel, or He may send the\nVirgin Mary or some lesser saint. The only person who is required to\nbelieve a private revelation is the person to whom it is revealed.\nDevotional practices may be based on reported private revelations,\nbut doctrines can not.\n\nWhen an alleged private revelation attracts sufficient attention, the\nChurch may investigate it. If the investigation indicates a likelihood\nthat the alleged private revelation is in fact from God, it will be\napproved. That means that it can be preached in the Church. However,\nit is still true that no one is required to believe that it came from\nGod. A Catholic is free to deny the authenticity of even the most\nwell attested and strongly approved private revelations, such as those\nat Fatima and Lourdes. (I suspect that few if any Catholics do reject\nFatima and Lourdes, but if any do their rejection of them does not\nmean they are not orthodox Catholics in good standing.)\n\nI do not have at hand a list of the criteria the Church uses in\nevaluating an alleged private revelation--it\'s not something I need\nevery day--but I know that one of the primary requirements is that\nnothing in the alleged private revelation can contradict anything\nknown through public revelation\n-------\nMarty Helgesen\nBitnet: mnhcc@cunyvm Internet: mnhcc@cunyvm.cuny.edu\n\n"What if there were no such thing as a hypothetical situation?"\n',
'From: mserv@mozart.cc.iup.edu (Mail Server)\nSubject: Re: src\nLines: 39\n\ndlecoint@garnet.acns.fsu.edu (Darius_Lecointe) writes:\n\n>I find it interesting that cls never answered any of the questions posed. \n>Then he goes on the make statements which make me shudder. He has\n>established a two-tiered God. One set of rules for the Jews (his people)\n>and another set for the saved Gentiles (his people). Why would God\n>discriminate? Does the Jew who accepts Jesus now have to live under the\n>Gentile rules.\n> \n>God has one set of rules for all his people. Paul was never against the\n>law. In fact he says repeatedly that faith establishes rather that annuls\n>the law. Paul\'s point is germane to both Jews and Greeks. The Law can\n>never be used as an instrument of salvation. And please do not combine\n>the ceremonial and moral laws in one.\n> \n>In Matt 5:14-19 Christ plainly says what He came to do and you say He was\n>only saying that for the Jews\'s benefit. Your Christ must be a\n>politician, speaking from both sides of His mouth. As Paul said, "I have\n>not so learned Christ." Forget all the theology, just do what Jesus says.\n> Your excuses will not hold up in a court of law on earth, far less in\n>God\'s judgement hall.\n\nPardon me for being a little confused, but at the beginning of your second \nparagraph, you say, "God has one set of rules for all his people," yet at the \nend of the same paragraph you declare, "please do not combine the ceremonial \nand moral laws in one." Not only do I not understand where in the Bible you \nfind the declaration that there are 2 laws (ceremonial and moral), but I am \nalso unclear on whether you think it is bad to have 2 sets of laws in the first \nplace. If it\'s bad to have 2 sets of laws, how can there be a ceremonial law \nthat is different from the moral law (and vice versa)?\n\nI would also be interested in your comments on the passage in I Cor. 10:1-16, \nwhere Paul teaches different rules for covering you head while praying \ndepending on whether you are a man or a woman. Do you think the apostles can \nprescribe different sets of rules for men and women? If so, then why not for \nJews and Gentiles? Also, why did Paul, who was so opposed to circumcising \nGentiles, voluntarily circumcise Timothy?\n\n- Mark\n',
'From: geb@cs.pitt.edu (Gordon Banks)\nSubject: Re: How to Diagnose Lyme... really\nReply-To: geb@cs.pitt.edu (Gordon Banks)\nOrganization: Univ. of Pittsburgh Computer Science\nLines: 19\n\nIn article <C5sy24.LF4@watson.ibm.com> yozzo@watson.ibm.com (Ralph Yozzo) writes:\n\n>>Why do you think he would be called a quack? The quacks don\'t do cultures.\n>>They poo-poo doing more lab tests: "this is Lyme, believe me, I\'ve\n\n> \n>Are you arguing that the Lyme lab test is accurate?\n\nIf you culture out the spirochete, it is virtually 100% certain\nthe patient has Lyme. I suppose you could have contamination\nin an exceptionally sloppy lab, but normally not. There are no\nfalse positives.\n\n\n-- \n----------------------------------------------------------------------------\nGordon Banks N3JXP | "Skepticism is the chastity of the intellect, and\ngeb@cadre.dsl.pitt.edu | it is shameful to surrender it too soon." \n----------------------------------------------------------------------------\n',
'From: jkjec@westminster.ac.uk (Shazad Barlas)\nSubject: iterations of the bible\nOrganization: University of Westminster\nLines: 53\n\nHi... I\'m not a religious guy so dont take this as some kinda flame (thanx\nin advance)\n\nI want to know why there are so many different versions of the bible? There\nis this version of the bible I have read about and on the front page it says:\n"....contains inaccurate data and inconsistencies." \n\n\t\t\t\t\tThanx in advance... Shaz....\n\n[I\'m not sure quite what you mean by many different versions.\nThe primary distinction in versions you see today is in the style\nof the translation. It\'s pretty unusual to see significant\ndifferences in meaning. There are a few differences in the underlying\ntext. That\'s because before printing, manuscripts were copied by\nhand. Slight differences resulted. There are enough manuscripts\naround that scholars can do a pretty good job of recreating the\noriginal, but there are some uncertainties. Fortunately, they are\ngenerally at the level of minor differences in wording. There are\nsomething like 3 or 4 places where whole sentences are involved,\nbut with recent discoveries of older manuscripts, I don\'t think there\'s\nmuch uncertainly about those cases. As far as I know, no Christians\nbelieve that the process of copying manuscripts or the process of\ntranslating is free of error. But I also don\'t think there\'s\nenough uncertainty in establishing the text or translating it that\nit has much practical effect.\n\nWhether the Bible contains inaccurate data and inconsistences is a hot\ntopic of debate here. Many Christians deny it. Some accept it\n(though most would say that the inaccuracies involved are on details\nthat don\'t affect the faith). But this has nothing to do with there\nbeing multiple versions. The supposed inconsistences can be found in\nall the versions. I\'m surprised to find a reference to this on the\ntitle page though. What version are you talking about? I\'ve been\nreferring to major scholarly translations. These are what get\nreferenced in postings here and elsewhere. There have certainly been\neditions that are (to be kind) less widely accepted. This includes\neverything from reconstructions that combine parallel accounts into\nsingle narrations, to editions that omit material that the editor\nobjects to for some reason or the other. The copyright on the Bible\nhas long since expired, so there nothing to stop people from making\neditions that do whatever wierd thing they want. However the editions\nthat are widely used are carefully prepared by groups of scholars from\na variety of backgrounds, with lots of crosschecks. I could imagine\none of the lesser-known editions claiming to have fixed up all\ninaccurate data and inconsistencies. But if so, it\'s not any edition\nthat\'s widely used. The widely used ones leave the text as is.\n(Weeeeelllllll, almost as is. It\'s been alleged that a few\ntranslations have fudged a word or two here and there to minimize\ninconsistencies. Because translation is not an exact science, there\nare always going to be differences in opinion over which word is best,\nI\'m afraid.)\n\n--clh]\n',
"From: sab@gnv.ifas.ufl.edu\nSubject: Info needed: 2D contour plotting\nLines: 16\n\nHi Everyone--\n\n It's spend-the-money-before-it-goes-away time here at U.Florida\nand we need to find some PC-based software that will do contour\nplotting with irregular boundaries,i.e., a 2-D profile of a soil\n system with a pond superimposed\n /----------------- on it. We've given SURFER a\n POND / | trial run but it interpolates\n / | contours out into the pond and/or\n----------/ | creates artifacts at the borders.\n| SOIL | If anyone out there knows of a\n| | product, I'ld appreciate hearing\n|________________________________| about it. If there is enough of\na response, I'll post a summary. Thanks -- (and now back to lurking).\n\n Steve Bloom, Soil & Water Science, U.Fl (SAB@GNV.IFAS.UFL.EDU)\n",
'From: jenk@microsoft.com (Jen Kilmer)\nSubject: Re: sex education\nOrganization: Microsoft Corporation\nLines: 27\n\nIn article <Apr.7.23.20.08.1993.14209@athos.rutgers.edu> mprc@troi.cc.rochester.edu (M. Price) writes:\n>In <Apr.5.23.31.32.1993.23904@athos.rutgers.edu> jenk@microsoft.com (Jen Kilmer) writes:\n>\n>> Method Expected Actual \n>> ------ Failure Rate Failure Rate\n>> Abstinence 0% 0% \n>\n>\n> These figures don\'t seem to take account of rape. Or is a woman who\n>is raped considered not to have been abstaining?\n\nI no longer have the textbook, but abstinence was defined as something\nlike "no contact between the penis and the vagina, vulva, or area \nimmediately surrounding the vulva, and no transfer of semen to the\nvagina, vulva, or area surrounding the vulva". \n\nThat is, abstinence wasn\'t discussed as "sex outside of marriage is\nmorally wrong" but as keep the sperm away from the ovum and conception \nis impossible. The moral question I recall the teacher asking was,\n"is it okay to create a child if you aren\'t able to be a good parent\nyet?"\n\n-jen\n\n-- \n\n#include <stdisclaimer> // jenk@microsoft.com // msdos testing\n',
'From: rbutera@owlnet.rice.edu (Robert John Butera)\nSubject: Re: about Eliz C Prophet\nOrganization: Rice University\nLines: 33\n\nIn article <Apr.21.03.27.03.1993.1388@geneva.rutgers.edu> JEK@cu.nih.gov writes:\n>Rob Butera asks about a book called THE LOST YEARS OF JESUS, by\n>Elizabeth Clare Prophet.\n\n> ...\n\n>marriage, if I remember aright), base almost all their teachings on\n>messages they have allegedly received by telepathy from Tibet. I\n>should be surprised if the book you mention has any scholarly basis.\n\nActually, there was very little to the book. First of all looking at\nthe titles of her other books, I would personally consider her \nto be engaged in a bizarre form of Christian-like mysticism\nheavily influenced by eastern philosphies (great titles like \n_The_Astrology_of_the_4_Horsemen_).\n\nHowever, other than the Chapter One into, there\'s nothing original,\nbiased, or even new this book. It is basically a collection of previously\npublished works by those who claim that there exist Buddhist and Hindu\nstories that Christ visited India and China (he was known as Issa) \nduring the period from late teens to age 30.\n\nConclusion: the book actually lets you come to your own view by presenting\na summary of various published works and letters, all of which you\ncould verify independently. It includes refutations to such works as\nwell. Therefore, even if you think she is theologically warped, this \nbook is a nice reference summary for the interested.\t \n\n-- \nRob Butera |\nECE Grad Student | "Only sick music makes money today" \nRice University |\nHouston, TX 77054 | - Nietzsche, 1888\n',
'From: geb@cs.pitt.edu (Gordon Banks)\nSubject: Re: various migraine therapies\nArticle-I.D.: pitt.19396\nReply-To: geb@cs.pitt.edu (Gordon Banks)\nOrganization: Univ. of Pittsburgh Computer Science\nLines: 21\n\nIn article <C4HtMw.H3J@olsen.ch> lindy@olsen.ch (Lindy Foster) writes:\n>I\'ve been treated to many therapies for migraine prophylaxis and treatment,\n>and it looks like they\'ll try a few more on me. I have taken propanolol\n>(I think it was 10mg 3xdaily) with no relief. I have just been started\n\n\n30mg per day of propranolol is a homeopathic dose in migraine. \nIf you got fatigued at that level, it is unlikely that you will\ntolerate enough beta blocker to help you. \n>\n>If we go the antidepressant route, what is it likely to be? How do\n>antidepressants work in migraine prophylaxis?\n>\n\nProbably a single nightime dose. We don\'t know how they work in migraine, but\nit probably has something to do with seratonin.\n-- \n----------------------------------------------------------------------------\nGordon Banks N3JXP | "Skepticism is the chastity of the intellect, and\ngeb@cadre.dsl.pitt.edu | it is shameful to surrender it too soon." \n----------------------------------------------------------------------------\n',
'From: mini@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Padmini Srivathsa)\nSubject: WANTED : Info on Image Databases\nOrganization: Computing Services Division, University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee\nLines: 15\nDistribution: world\nNNTP-Posting-Host: 129.89.7.4\nOriginator: mini@csd4.csd.uwm.edu\n\n Guess the subject says it all.\n I would like references to any introductory material on Image\n Databases.\n Please send any pointers to mini@point.cs.uwm.edu\n\n Thanx in advance!\n \n\n\n\n-- \n~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~\n-< MINI >- mini@point.cs.uwm.edu | mini@csd4.csd.uwm.edu \n~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~\n\n',
'From: smayo@world.std.com (Scott A Mayo)\nSubject: Re: proof of resurection\nOrganization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA\nLines: 33\n\njsledd@ssdc.sas.upenn.edu (James Sledd) writes:\n\n>Finally:\n>There is no proof of the resurrection of Christ, except in our spirits\n>communion with his, and the Father\'s. It is a matter of FAITH, belief\n>without logical proof. Incedently one of the largest stumbling blocks for\n>rational western man, myself included.\n>I hope that this is taken in the spirit it was intended and not as a \n>rejection of the resurrection\'s occurance. I beleive, but I wanted to point \n>out the weakness of logical proofs.\n\nTerms are being used in a loaded way here.\n\n"Logical proof" is an extremely messy thing to apply to real\nlife. If you think otherwise, try to construct a proof that\nyesterday happened. Obviously it did; anyone old enough to be\nreading this was there for it and remembers that it happened.\nBut *proof*? A proof starts with axioms and goes somewhere.\nYou need axioms to talk about logical proof. You can say that\nyou remember yesterday, and that you take as axiom that anything\nyou clearly remember happened. I could counterclaim that you\nhallucinated the whole thing.\n\nTo talk about proofs of historical events, you have to relax the\nterms a bit. You can show evidences, not proofs. Evidences of the\nresurrected Jesus exist. Proofs do not.\n\nI think Christianity goes down in flames if the resurrection is\never disproved. I also think that this will not happen, as\nthe evidence for the resurrection is quite good as these things\ngo. It is not entirely fair to claim that you can only take\nthe resurrection on faith. There are reasons to believe it\nthat appeal to the mind, too.\n',
'From: drt@athena.mit.edu (David R Tucker)\nSubject: Re: Question: Jesus alone, Oneness\nOrganization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology\nLines: 89\n\nRegarding "Jesus only" believers, our moderator writes:\n\n [There may be some misunderstanding over terms here...]\n\nI agree. Quite likely, actually.\n\n [...I believe "Jesus\n only" originally was in the context of baptism. These are folks who\n believe that baptism should be done with a formula mentioning only\n Jesus, rather than Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. This may have\n doctrinal implications, but as far as I know it does not mean that\n these folks deny the existence or divinity of the Father. I\'m not the\n right one to describe this theology, and in fact I think there may be\n several, including what would classically be called monophysite or\n Arian (two rather different views), as well as some who have beliefs\n that are probably consistent with Trinitarian standards, but who won\'t\n use Trinitarian language because they misunderstand it or simply\n because it is not Biblical. --clh]\n\nNot Biblical? What then can they make of the end of Matthew?\n\n(28:18)And Jesus came and said to them, "All authority in heaven and on\nearth has been given to me. (19)Go therefore and make disciples of all\nnations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and\nof the Holy Spirit, (20) and teaching them to obey everything that I\nhave commanded to you. And remember, I am with you always, to the end\nof the age." {Other ancient authorities add *Amen*} [NRSV]\n\nThe notes give no sense that this is emended. Do other texts\ncontradict this regarding Baptism? Or is a misunderstanding of the\nTrinity the most likely explanation after all?\n\nBut maybe I simply misunderstand their views. (Is anyone else out there\nforced to read this group with both a good Bible and an unabridged\ndictionary?? Christianity really is an education in itself.)\n\n--\n------------------------------------------------------------------------\n|David R. Tucker\t\tKG2S\t\t drt@athena.mit.edu|\n------------------------------------------------------------------------\n\n[Arrgggghhhh. When I talked about people who rejected Trinitarian\nlanguage as unBiblical, I was speaking of Trinitarian theology, things\nlike "one essense and three persons". Obviously the three-fold\nbaptismal formula is Biblical, as you point out. (I normally use the\nterm "three-fold" in referring to Mat. While it is certainly\nconsistent with belief in the Trinity, the Trinity is a doctrine whose\nfull formulation occurred in the 4th and 5th Cent\'s. It\'s unlikely\nthat Mat. had in mind the fully-developed Trinitarian doctrine.\nIndeed the three-fold baptismal formula is used by some groups that do\nnot believe in the Trinity.) The disagreement over baptismal formulae\noccurs because of passages such as Acts 2:38, which command baptism in\nthe name of Jesus. (There are a couple of other passages in Acts as\nwell.) This leaves us with sort of a problem: we\'re commanded in Mat.\nto baptize in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit,\nand in Acts to baptize in the name of Jesus.\n\n"Jesus only" groups baptize in the name of Jesus. They consider this\nconsistent with Mat 28:18, because they say that Jesus is the name of\nthe Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. I\'m not the right one to\nask to explain what this means. I will simply say that it does not\nappear to be normal Trinitarian theology. (It is also an odd way of\ndealing with the idiomatic phrase "in the name of".)\n\nThose who use the three-fold formula don\'t seem to have a standard\nanswer to the passages talking about baptizing in the name of Jesus.\nI suspect that the most common explanation is to say that "in the name\nof" need not be a verbal formula. To say that you baptize in the name\nof Jesus may simply mean that you are doing baptism under Jesus\'\nauthority. In the 1st Cent. context, it contrasts Christian baptism\nwith the baptism of John or other Jewish baptism. Of course there\'s a\ncertain parallelism between these passages. That suggests that we\ncould just as well say that Mat 28:18 doesn\'t require the specific\nthree-fold formula to be used in baptism, but simply characterizes\nbaptism done by those who follow the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.\n\nOne might well suspect that in the early church, more than one\nbaptismal formula was used. So long as we consider following Jesus to\nbe the same as following the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, no great\ndamage would be done by such a difference. This does *not* mean that\nI think we should go back to using both formulae. Baptism is one of\nthe few things that almost all Christian groups now recognize\nmutually, so I do not think doing something to upset that would be in\nthe interests of the Gospel. This is reinforced by the fact that\nthose groups that actually use "in the name of Jesus" now do seem to\nhave in mind a difference in doctrine. But as I\'ve said before, I\'m\nnot the one to explain what their doctrine is.\n\n--clh]\n',
"From: chris@sarah.lerc.nasa.gov (Chris Johnston)\nSubject: One day graphics/composites seminar\nOrganization: NASA Lewis Research Center, Cleveland, OH\nLines: 47\nDistribution: world\nReply-To: chris@sarah.lerc.nasa.gov (Chris Johnston)\nNNTP-Posting-Host: looney.lerc.nasa.gov\n\nSAMPE, NCGA, The University of Akron, and NASA Lewis Research Center\nis sponsoring:\n\n COMPUTERS AND COMPOSITES\n\n\tA one-day seminar devoted to practical applications of\n\tcomputer workstations for efficient processing, design, and\n\t\t\tManufacture of composites\n\nMay 18, 1993\nat\n The University of Akron\n Akron, Ohio\n\nSpeakers on:\n Advancement in Graphics Visualization Dr. Jay Horowitz, NASA\n Integrated Product Development with Mr. Michael R. Cowen\n Network Workstations\t\t Sikorski Aircraft\n Structural Analysis\t\t\t Mr. Brian Fite, NASA\n Stereolithography\t\t\t Mr. Jason Williams, Penn State-Erie\n Molecular and Physical Modeling\t Dr. Vassilios Galiatsato,\n of Polymer Curing University of Akron\n Process Modeling of Polymer\n Matrix Composites\t\t\t Dr Ram Upadhyay, GE Corporate R&D\n\nRegistration Fees: $75.00 Advance, $100.00 on site (Includes box lunch)\n\nContact Gary Roberts, NASA Lewis Research Center (216) 433-344\nor write:\n\tSAMPE Regional Seminar\n\tc/o Gary Roberts\n\tNASA Lewis Research Center\n\t21000 Brookpark Rd MS 49-1\n\tCleveland, Ohio 44135\n\nOr Email to me, | and I'll get it to Gary.\n\t\t|\n\t \\/\n-- \n+---------------------------------------------------------------------------+\n| Chris Johnston (216) 433-5029 |\n| Materials Engineer\t\t (216) 433-5033 |\n| NASA Lewis Research Center Internet: chris@sarah.lerc.nasa.gov |\n| 21000 Brookpark Rd MS 105-1\t\t \t\t\t\t |\n| Cleveland, OH 4413 USA\tResistance is futile!\t\t\t |\n+---------------------------------------------------------------------------+\n\n",
'From: REXLEX@fnal.fnal.gov\nSubject: Re: RE: Does God love you?\nOrganization: FNAL/AD/Net\nLines: 70\n\nIn article <Apr.13.00.08.10.1993.28382@athos.rutgers.edu> jayne@mmalt.guild.org\n(Jayne Kulikauskas) writes:\n\n>I am uncomfortable with the tract in general because there seems to be \n>an innappropriate emphasis on Hell. God deserves our love and worship \n>because of who He is. I do not like the idea of frightening people into \n>accepting Christ. \n\nAnd yet, Jayne, as we read the Gospels and in particular the topics that Jesus\nhimself spoke on, Hell figures in a large % of the time -certainly more than\nheaven itself. Paul, as we learn in I Thess, taught new believers and new\nchurches eschatology and did not hesitate to teach hell and damnation. Rev,\nchapter 20:11-15 is very specific and cannot be allegorized. I think the word\n"throne" is used 45 times in Rev and that the unbelieving come to receive the\nassignment of the severity of judgement, for in John 3 we read that they are\nalready judged. Rom 3 speaks that every mouth will be shut. There is no\nrecourse, excuse or defense.\n>\n>I see evangelism as combining a way of living that shows God\'s love with \n>putting into words and explaining that love. Preaching the Gospel \n>without living the Gospel is no better than being a noisy gong or a \n>clanging cymbal.\n\nYes I agree with you. Life is often like a pendulum where it swings to\nextremes before stopping at "moderation." I think we have seen the extreme of\nthe "hell fire & brimstone" preacher, but also we have seen the other extreme\nwhere hell not talked about at all for fear of offending someones\nsensibilities.\n\nI forget who founded the Word of Life Ministries, but I remember him telling a\nstory. He was in a small town hardware store and some how a man got to the\npoint of telling him that he didn\'t believe in Satan or hell. He believed\neverybody was going to heaven. It was at this point that the man was asked to\npray to God that He would send his children to hell! Of course the man\nwouldn\'t do it. But the point was made. Many people say they don\'t believe in\nhell but they are not willing to really place their faith in that it doesn\'t\nexist. If this man had, he would of prayed the prayer because hell didn\'t\nexist and there would have been no fear in having his prayer answered. And\nyet, they walk as if they believe they will never be sent there.\n\nI\'d use a different illustration however. I have to include myself in it. \nWhen I watch, say a Basketball (go Bulls!) game, and I see a blatant foul that\nisn\'t called, oi vey!. What\'s with that ref that he didn\'t make that call. \nIt\'s unfair. And just so in life, righteousness demands payment. As the\nsurgeon takes knife in hand to cut the cancer away, so God cuts off that which\nis still of the old creation. We must preach the Gospel in all its richness\nwhich includes the fact that if you reject The Way and The Truth and The Life,\nthen broad is the way to distruction.\n\n>\n>Here\'s a question: How many of you are Christians because you are \n>afraid of going to Hell? How many are responding to God\'s love?\n\nI think I would fall in there somewhere. Actually it was both. After all,\nrepentance isn\'t only a turning towards, but also a turning away from!\nNo, again, if Jesus used it in His ministry then I can surely see that we\nshould do it also. In love, of course, but in truth most assuredly. \n\nI have thought about writing something on this topic, but not now and here. I\nwould say that there are some good reasons for its existence and its\neternality.\n\n1) God is Light. Yes He is love, but His love has the boundary of Holiness.\n2) Dignity of Man. Either a man is a robot or he is a responsible creature.\n If responsible, then he is also accountable.\n3) The awfulness of sin. Today we have a poor, poor concept of sin & God.\n4) Christ. He was willing to die and go there Himself to offer an avenue to\n the "whosoever will."\n\n--Rex\n',
'From: livesey@solntze.wpd.sgi.com (Jon Livesey)\nSubject: Re: After 2000 years, can we say that Christian Morality is\nOrganization: sgi\nLines: 23\nNNTP-Posting-Host: solntze.wpd.sgi.com\n\nIn article <1qkq9t$66n@horus.ap.mchp.sni.de>, frank@D012S658.uucp (Frank O\'Dwyer) writes:\n|> \n|> I\'ll take a wild guess and say Freedom is objectively valuable. I base\n|> this on the assumption that if everyone in the world were deprived utterly\n|> of their freedom (so that their every act was contrary to their volition),\n|> almost all would want to complain. Therefore I take it that to assert or\n|> believe that "Freedom is not very valuable", when almost everyone can see\n|> that it is, is every bit as absurd as to assert "it is not raining" on\n|> a rainy day. I take this to be a candidate for an objective value, and it\n|> it is a necessary condition for objective morality that objective values\n|> such as this exist.\n\nMy own personal and highly subjective opinion is that freedom\nis a good thing.\n\nHowever, when I here people assert that the only "true" freedom\nis in following the words of this and that Messiah, I realise\nthat people don\'t even agree on the meaning of the word.\n\nWhat does it mean to say that word X represents an objective\nvalue when word X has no objective meaning?\n\njon.\n',
'From: turpin@cs.utexas.edu (Russell Turpin)\nSubject: Re: Science and Methodology\nOrganization: CS Dept, University of Texas at Austin\nLines: 67\nDistribution: inet\nNNTP-Posting-Host: im4u.cs.utexas.edu\n\n-*----\nIn article <C5I2Bo.CG9@news.Hawaii.Edu> lady@uhunix.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu (Lee Lady) writes:\n> The difference between a Nobel Prize level scientist and a mediocre\n> scientist does not lie in the quality of their empirical methodology. \n> It depends on the quality of their THINKING. \n>\n> It really bothers me that so many graduate students seem to believe that\n> they are doing science merely because they are conducting empirical\n> studies. ...\n>\n> And I\'m especially offended by Russell Turpin\'s repeated assertion that\n> science amounts to nothing more than avoiding mistakes. Simply avoiding\n> mistakes doesn\'t get you anywhere. \n\nI think that Lee Lady and I are talking at cross purposes.\nAbove, Lady seems concerned with the contrast between great\nscience that makes big advances in our knowledge and mediocre\nscience that makes smaller steps. In most of this thread, I have\nbeen concerned with the difference between what is science and\nwhat is not. \n\nLee Lady is correct when she asserts that the difference between\nEinstein and the average post-doc physicist is the quality of\ntheir thought. But what is the difference between Einstein and a\ngenius who would be a great scientist but whose great thoughts\nare scientifically screwy? (Some would give Velikovsky or\nKorzybski as examples. If you don\'t like these, choose your\nown.) I say it is the same as the difference between the mediocre\nphysicist and the mediocre proponent of qi. Both Einstein and\nthe mediocre physcists have disciplined their work from the\ncumulative knowledge of how previous researchers went wrong.\nBoth Velikovsky and the mediocre proponent of qi have failed to\ndo this. \n\nLet me approach this from a second direction. When one is asked\nto review a paper for a journal or conference, there are many\nkinds of criticism that one can make. One kind of criticism is\nthat the work is just wrong or misinformed. Another kind of\ncriticism is that the work, while technically correct, is either\nnot important or not interesting. The first difference is the\none that I have been pointing to. The second difference is the\none that Lee Lady seems to be discussing. \n\n> If good empirical research were done and showed that there is some merit\n> to homeopathic remedies, this would certainly be valuable information.\n> But it would still not mean that homeopathy qualifies as a science. This\n> is where you and I disagree with Turpin. \n\nI have often pointed out that for homeopathy to be considered \nscientific, what is needed is a test of its theoretical claims,\nnot just of some of its proposed remedies. Similarly, I suspect\nthat traditional Chinese medicine has many remedies that work;\nwhat it lacks (as one example) is any experiment that tests the\npresence of qi.\n\n> ... In order to have science, one must have a theoretical\n> structure that makes sense, not a mere collection of empirically\n> validated random hypotheses.\n\nCertainly a "theoretical structure that makes sense" is the goal.\nIn areas where we do not yet have this, I see nothing wrong with\nforming and testing smaller hypotheses. Let\'s face it: we cannot\nalways wait for an Einstein to come along and make everything\nclear for us. Sometimes those of us who are not Einstein have to\nplug along and make small amounts of progress as best we can. \n\nRussell\n',
'From: kmr4@po.CWRU.edu (Keith M. Ryan)\nSubject: Re: <Political Atheists?\nOrganization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)\nLines: 26\nNNTP-Posting-Host: b64635.student.cwru.edu\n\nIn article <1qlfd4INN935@gap.caltech.edu> keith@cco.caltech.edu (Keith Allan Schneider) writes:\n>livesey@solntze.wpd.sgi.com (Jon Livesey) writes:\n>\n>>>Well, chimps must have some system. They live in social groups\n>>>as we do, so they must have some "laws" dictating undesired behavior.\n>>So, why "must" they have such laws?\n>\n>The quotation marks should enclose "laws," not "must."\n>\n>If there were no such rules, even instinctive ones or unwritten ones,\n>etc., then surely some sort of random chance would lead a chimp society\n>into chaos.\n\t\n\n\tThe "System" refered to a "moral system". You havn\'t shown any \nreason that chimps "must" have a moral system. \n\tExcept if you would like to redefine everything.\n\n\n--- \n\n " Whatever promises that have been made can than be broken. "\n\n John Laws, a man without the honor to keep his given word.\n\n\n',
'From: rousseaua@immunex.com\nSubject: Re: Lactose intolerance\nOrganization: Immunex Corporation, Seattle, WA\nLines: 8\n\nIn article <ng4.733990422@husc.harvard.edu>, ng4@husc11.harvard.edu (Ho Leung Ng) writes:\n> \n> When I was a kid in primary school, I used to drink tons of milk without\n> any problems. However, nowadays, I can hardly drink any at all without\n> experiencing some discomfort. What could be responsible for the change?\n> \n> Ho Leung Ng\n> ng4@husc.harvard.edu\n',
'Subject: Origin of Morphine\nFrom: chinsz@eis.calstate.edu (Christopher Hinsz)\nOrganization: Calif State Univ/Electronic Information Services\nLines: 20\n\n\tI am sorry to once again bother those of you on this newsgroup. \nIf you have any suggestions as to where I might find out about the subject\nof this letter (the origin of Morphine, ie. who first isolsted it, and why\nhe/she attempted such an experiment). Once agian any suggestion would be\nappreciated.\n\tCSH\np.s. My instructer insists that I get 4 rescources from this newsgroup, so\nplease send me and info you think may be helpful. Facts that you know,\nbut don\'t know what book they\'re from are ok.\nATTENTION: If you do NOT like seeing letters such as this one on your\nnewsgroup direct all complaints to my instructor at <bshayler@eis.CalStat.Edu>\n\n\n--\n "Kilimanjaro is a pretty tricky climb. Most of it\'s up, until you reach\nthe very, very top, and then it tends to slope away rather sharply."\n\t\t\t\t\tSir George Head, OBE (JC)\n------------------------------------------------------------------------------\nLOGIC: "The point is frozen, the beast is dead, what is the difference?"\n\t\t\t\t\tGavin Millarrrrrrrrrr (JC)\n',
'From: bmdelane@quads.uchicago.edu (brian manning delaney)\nSubject: Brain Tumor Treatment (thanks)\nReply-To: bmdelane@midway.uchicago.edu\nOrganization: University of Chicago\nLines: 12\n\nThere were a few people who responded to my request for info on\ntreatment for astrocytomas through email, whom I couldn\'t thank\ndirectly because of mail-bouncing probs (Sean, Debra, and Sharon). So\nI thought I\'d publicly thank everyone.\n\nThanks! \n\n(I\'m sure glad I accidentally hit "rn" instead of "rm" when I was\ntrying to delete a file last September. "Hmmm... \'News?\' What\'s\nthis?"....)\n\n-Brian\n',
'From: jenk@microsoft.com (Jen Kilmer)\nSubject: Re: sex education\nOrganization: Microsoft Corporation\nLines: 44\n\nIn article <Mar.26.02.54.26.1993.8940@athos.rutgers.edu> swansond@nextnet.ccs.csus.edu (Dennis Swanson) writes:\n>In article <Mar.22.02.52.49.1993.330@athos.rutgers.edu> heath@athena.cs.uga.edu (Terrance Heath) writes:\n>>[...]\n>>When I do programs, I spend\n>>about half the time talking about absitinence [...]\n>>I find that most people who object\n>>to sex education actually object to the teaching *anything* other than\n>>abstinencne, and that IMO is just as irresponsible as only talking\n>>about comdom use.\n>\n>I\'m under the impression that most sex ed instructors and/or policy makers\n>actually object to making any more than a passing reference to abstinence,\n>wishing to spend time only on the "realistic" choices. \n\nIn the "sex ed" portion of the high school "health" course I took\nin 1984, it was impressed that the only 100% positive way to *not*\nget pregnant was to *not* have sex.\n\nOther methods of contraception were discussed, in the framework of\na chart which showed both the _expected_ failure rate (theoretical,\nassumes no mistakes) and the _actual_ failure rate (based on research).\nTop of the chart was something like this:\n\n\n Method Expected Actual \n ------ Failure Rate Failure Rate\n Abstinence 0% 0% \n\n\nAnd NFP (Natural Family Planning) was on the bottom. The teacher even\nsaid, "I\'ve had some students tell me that they can\'t use anything for\nbirth control because they\'re Catholic. Well, if you\'re not married and\nyou\'re a practicing Catholic, the *top* of the list is your slot, not \nthe *bottom*. Even if you\'re not religious, the top of the list is\nsafest."\n\nYes, this was a public school and after Dr Koop\'s "failing abstinence,\nuse a condom" statement on the prevention of AIDS.\n\n-jen\n\n-- \n\n#include <stdisclaimer> // jenk@microsoft.com // msdos testing\n',
"From: bshelley@ucs.indiana.edu ()\nSubject: Xanax...please provide info\nNntp-Posting-Host: jh224-718622.ucs.indiana.edu\nOrganization: Indiana University\nLines: 9\n\nI am currently doing a group research project on the drug Xanax. I would\nbe exponentially gracious to receive any and all information you could\nprovide\nme regarding its usage, history, mechanism of reaction, side effects, and\nother pertinent information. I don't care how long or how short your \nresponse is.\n\nThanks in advance!\nBrent E. Shelley\n",
' howland.reston.ans.net!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uunet!mcsun!Germany.EU.net!news.dfn.de!tubsibr!dbstu1.rz.tu-bs.de!I3150101\nSubject: Re: Gospel Dating\nFrom: I3150101@dbstu1.rz.tu-bs.de (Benedikt Rosenau)\nOrganization: Technical University Braunschweig, Germany\nLines: 35\n\nIn article <66015@mimsy.umd.edu>\nmangoe@cs.umd.edu (Charley Wingate) writes:\n \n(Deletion)\n>I cannot see any evidence for the V. B. which the cynics in this group would\n>ever accept. As for the second, it is the foundation of the religion.\n>Anyone who claims to have seen the risen Jesus (back in the 40 day period)\n>is a believer, and therefore is discounted by those in this group; since\n>these are all ancients anyway, one again to choose to dismiss the whole\n>thing. The third is as much a metaphysical relationship as anything else--\n>even those who agree to it have argued at length over what it *means*, so\n>again I don\'t see how evidence is possible.\n>\n \nNo cookies, Charlie. The claims that Jesus have been seen are discredited\nas extraordinary claims that don\'t match their evidence. In this case, it\nis for one that the gospels cannot even agree if it was Jesus who has been\nseen. Further, there are zillions of other spook stories, and one would\nhardly consider others even in a religious context to be some evidence of\na resurrection.\n \nThere have been more elaborate arguments made, but it looks as if they have\nnot passed your post filtering.\n \n \n>I thus interpret the "extraordinary claims" claim as a statement that the\n>speaker will not accept *any* evidence on the matter.\n \nIt is no evidence in the strict meaning. If there was actual evidence it would\nprobably be part of it, but the says nothing about the claims.\n \n \nCharlie, I have seen Invisible Pink Unicorns!\nBy your standards we have evidence for IPUs now.\n Benedikt\n',
'From: geb@cs.pitt.edu (Gordon Banks)\nSubject: Re: NIH offers "Exploratory Grants For Alternative Medicine"\nReply-To: geb@cs.pitt.edu (Gordon Banks)\nOrganization: Univ. of Pittsburgh Computer Science\nLines: 30\n\nIn article <1993Apr9.172945.4578@island.COM> green@island.COM (Robert Greenstein) writes:\n>In article <19493@pitt.UUCP> geb@cs.pitt.edu (Gordon Banks) writes:\n>>One problem is very few scientists are interested in alternative medicine.\n>\n>So Gordon, why do you think this is so?\n>-- \n\nProbably because most of them come packaged with some absurd theory\nbehind them. E.G. homoeopathy: like cures like. The more you dilute\nthings, the more powerful they get, even if you dilute them so much\nthere is no ingredient but water left. Chiropractic: all illness\nstems from compressions of nerves by misaligned vertebrae. Such\nsystems are so patently absurd, that any good they do is accidental\nand not related to the theory. The only exception is probably herbalism,\nbecause scientists recognize the potent drugs that derive from plants\nand are always interested in seeing if they can find new plants\nthat have active and useful substances. But that isn\'t what \nis meant by alternative medicine, usually. If you get into the Qi,\naccupuntunce charts, etc, you are now back to silly theories that\nprobably have nothing to do with why accupuncture works in some cases.\n\nPerhaps another reason they are reluctant is the Rhine experience.\nRhine was a scientist who wanted to investigate the paranormal\nand his lab was filled with so much chacanery and fakery that \npeople don\'t want to be associated with that sort of thing. \n-- \n----------------------------------------------------------------------------\nGordon Banks N3JXP | "Skepticism is the chastity of the intellect, and\ngeb@cadre.dsl.pitt.edu | it is shameful to surrender it too soon." \n----------------------------------------------------------------------------\n',
"From: robert@cpuserver.acsc.com (Robert Grant)\nSubject: Virtual Reality for X on the CHEAP!\nOrganization: USCACSC, Los Angeles\nLines: 187\nDistribution: world\nReply-To: robert@cpuserver.acsc.com (Robert Grant)\nNNTP-Posting-Host: cpuserver.acsc.com\n\nHi everyone,\n\nI thought that some people may be interested in my VR\nsoftware on these groups:\n\n*******Announcing the release of Multiverse-1.0.2*******\n\nMultiverse is a multi-user, non-immersive, X-Windows based Virtual Reality\nsystem, primarily focused on entertainment/research.\n\nFeatures:\n\n Client-Server based model, using Berkeley Sockets.\n No limit to the number of users (apart from performance).\n Generic clients.\n Customizable servers.\n Hierachical Objects (allowing attachment of cameras and light sources).\n Multiple light sources (ambient, point and spot).\n Objects can have extension code, to handle unique functionality, easily\n attached.\n\nFunctionality:\n\n Client:\n The client is built around a 'fast' render loop. Basically it changes things\n when told to by the server and then renders an image from the user's\n viewpoint. It also provides the server with information about the user's\n actions - which can then be communicated to other clients and therefore to\n other users.\n\n The client is designed to be generic - in other words you don't need to\n develop a new client when you want to enter a new world. This means that\n resources can be spent on enhancing the client software rather than adapting\n it. The adaptations, as will be explained in a moment, occur in the servers.\n\n This release of the client software supports the following functionality:\n\n o Hierarchical Objects (with associated addressing)\n\n o Multiple Light Sources and Types (Ambient, Point and Spot)\n\n o User Interface Panels\n\n o Colour Polygonal Rendering with Phong Shading (optional wireframe for\n\tfaster frame rates)\n\n o Mouse and Keyboard Input\n\n (Some people may be disappointed that this software doesn't support the\n PowerGlove as an input device - this is not because it can't, but because\n I don't have one! This will, however, be one of the first enhancements!)\n\n Server(s):\n This is where customization can take place. The following basic support is\n provided in this release for potential world server developers:\n\n o Transparent Client Management\n\n o Client Message Handling\n\n This may not sound like much, but it takes away the headache of\naccepting and\n terminating clients and receiving messages from them - the\napplication writer\n can work with the assumption that things are happening locally.\n\n Things get more interesting in the object extension functionality. This is\n what is provided to allow you to animate your objects:\n\n o Server Selectable Extension Installation:\n What this means is that you can decide which objects have extended\n functionality in your world. Basically you call the extension\n initialisers you want.\n\n o Event Handler Registration:\n When you develop extensions for an object you basically write callback\n functions for the events that you want the object to respond to.\n (Current events supported: INIT, MOVE, CHANGE, COLLIDE & TERMINATE)\n\n o Collision Detection Registration:\n If you want your object to respond to collision events just provide\n some basic information to the collision detection management software.\n Your callback will be activated when a collision occurs.\n\n This software is kept separate from the worldServer applications because\n the application developer wants to build a library of extended objects\n from which to choose.\n\n The following is all you need to make a World Server application:\n\n o Provide an initWorld function:\n This is where you choose what object extensions will be supported, plus\n any initialization you want to do.\n\n o Provide a positionObject function:\n This is where you determine where to place a new client.\n\n o Provide an installWorldObjects function:\n This is where you load the world (.wld) file for a new client.\n\n o Provide a getWorldType function:\n This is where you tell a new client what persona they should have.\n\n o Provide an animateWorld function:\n This is where you can go wild! At a minimum you should let the objects\n move (by calling a move function) and let the server sleep for a bit\n (to avoid outrunning the clients).\n\n That's all there is to it! And to prove it here are the line counts for the\n three world servers I've provided:\n\n generic - 81 lines\n dactyl - 270 lines (more complicated collision detection due to the\n stairs! Will probably be improved with future\n versions)\n dogfight - 72 lines\n\nLocation:\n\n This software is located at the following site:\n ftp.u.washington.edu\n\n Directory:\n pub/virtual-worlds\n\n File:\n multiverse-1.0.2.tar.Z\n\nFutures:\n\n Client:\n\n o Texture mapping.\n\n o More realistic rendering: i.e. Z-Buffering (or similar), Gouraud shading\n\n o HMD support.\n\n o Etc, etc....\n\n Server:\n\n o Physical Modelling (gravity, friction etc).\n\n o Enhanced Object Management/Interaction\n\n o Etc, etc....\n\n Both:\n\n o Improved Comms!!!\n\nI hope this provides people with a good understanding of the Multiverse\nsoftware,\nunfortunately it comes with practically zero documentation, and I'm not sure\nwhether that will ever be able to be rectified! :-(\n\nI hope people enjoy this software and that it is useful in our explorations of\nthe Virtual Universe - I've certainly found fascinating developing it, and I\nwould *LOVE* to add support for the PowerGlove...and an HMD :-)!!\n\nFinally one major disclaimer:\n\nThis is totally amateur code. By that I mean there is no support for this code\nother than what I, out the kindness of my heart, or you, out of pure\ndesperation, provide. I cannot be held responsible for anything good or bad\nthat may happen through the use of this code - USE IT AT YOUR OWN RISK!\n\nDisclaimer over!\n\nOf course if you love it, I would like to here from you. And anyone with\nPOSITIVE contributions/criticisms is also encouraged to contact me. Anyone who\nhates it: > /dev/null!\n\n************************************************************************\n*********\nAnd if anyone wants to let me do this for a living: you know where to\nwrite :-)!\n************************************************************************\n*********\n\nThanks,\n\nRobert.\n\nrobert@acsc.com\n^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^\n",
"From: keith@cco.caltech.edu (Keith Allan Schneider)\nSubject: Re: >>>>>>Pompous ass\nOrganization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena\nLines: 9\nNNTP-Posting-Host: punisher.caltech.edu\n\nkmr4@po.CWRU.edu (Keith M. Ryan) writes:\n\n>>Then why do people keep asking the same questions over and over?\n>Because you rarely ever answer them.\n\nNope, I've answered each question posed, and most were answered multiple\ntimes.\n\nkeith\n",
"From: jim.zisfein@factory.com (Jim Zisfein) \nSubject: klonopin and pregnancy\nDistribution: world\nOrganization: Invention Factory's BBS - New York City, NY - 212-274-8298v.32bis\nReply-To: jim.zisfein@factory.com (Jim Zisfein) \nLines: 17\n\nA(> From: adwright@iastate.edu ()\nA(> A woman I know is tapering off klonopin. I believe that is one of the\nA(> benzodiazopines. She is taking a very minimal dose right now, half a tablet\nA(> a day. She is also pregnant. My question is Are there any known cases where\nA(> klonopin or similar drug has caused harmful effects to the fetus?\nA(> How about cases where the mother took klonopin or similar substance and had\nA(> normal baby. Any information is appreciated. She wants to get a feel for\nA(> what sort of risk she is taking. She is in her first month of pregnancy.\n\nKlonopin, according to the PDR (Physician's Desk Reference), is not a\nproven teratogen. There are isolated case reports of malformations,\nbut it is impossible to establish cause-effect relationships. The\noverwhelming majority of women that take Klonopin while pregnant have\nnormal babies.\n---\n . SLMR 2.1 . E-mail: jim.zisfein@factory.com (Jim Zisfein)\n \n",
'From: oser@fermi.wustl.edu (Scott Oser)\nSubject: Re: DID HE REALLY RISE???\nOrganization: Washington University Astrophysics\nLines: 36\n\nIn article <Apr.10.05.33.59.1993.14428@athos.rutgers.edu> mcovingt@aisun3.ai.uga.edu (Michael Covington) writes:\n>The two historic facts that I think the most important are these:\n>\n>(1) If Jesus didn\'t rise from the dead, then he must have done something\n>else equally impressive, in order to create the observed amount of impact.\n>\n>(2) Nobody ever displayed the dead body of Jesus, even though both the\n>Jewish and the Roman authorities would have gained a lot by doing so\n>(it would have discredited the Christians).\n>\n>-- \n>:- Michael A. Covington internet mcovingt@ai.uga.edu : *****\n>:- Artificial Intelligence Programs phone 706 542-0358 : *********\n>:- The University of Georgia fax 706 542-0349 : * * *\n>:- Athens, Georgia 30602-7415 U.S.A. amateur radio N4TMI : ** *** ** <><\n\nAnd the two simplest refutations are these:\n\n(1) What impact? The only record of impact comes from the New Testament.\nI have no guarantee that its books are in the least accurate, and that\nthe recorded "impact" actually happened. I find it interesting that no other\ncontemporary source records an eclipse, an earthquake, a temple curtain\nbeing torn, etc. The earliest written claim we have of Jesus\' resurrection\nis from the Pauline epistles, none of which were written sooner than 20 years\nafter the supposed event.\n\n(2) It seems probable that no one displayed the body of Jesus because no\none knew where it was. I personally believe that the most likely\nexplanation was that the body was stolen (by disciples, or by graverobbers).\nDon\'t bother with the point about the guards ... it only appears in one\ngospel, and seems like exactly the sort of thing early Christians might make\nup in order to counter the grave-robbing charge. The New Testament does\nrecord that Jews believed the body had been stolen. If there were really\nguards, they could not have effectively made this claim, as they did.\n\n-Scott O.\n',
'From: markl@hunan.rastek.com (Mark Larsen)\nSubject: Re: Ray tracer for ms-dos?\nOrganization: Rastek Corporation, Huntsville, AL\nLines: 32\n\nIn article <1r1cqiINNje8@srvr1.engin.umich.edu> tdawson@llullaillaco.engin.umich.edu (Chris Herringshaw) writes:\n>\n>Sorry for the repeat of this request, but does anyone know of a good\n>free/shareware program with which I can create ray-traces and save\n>them as bit-mapped files? (Of course if there is such a thing =)\n>\n>Thanks in advance\n>\n>Daemon\n\nThere are 2 books published by M&T BOOKS that come with C source code on\nfloppies. They are:\n\nProgramming In 3 Dimensions, 3-D Graphics, Ray Traycing, and Animation\nby: Christopher D. Watkins and Larry Sharp.\n\nPhotorealism and Ray Tracing in C\nby: Christopher D. Watkins, Stephen B. Coy, and Mark Finlay.\n\nI have the first book and it is a great intro to 3-D, Ray Tracing and\nAnimation. Most of the programs are on the disk compiled and ready to run.\n\nI have only glanced at the second book but it also appears to be good.\n\nHope this helps!\nMark Larsen\n\n---------------------------------------------------------------------------\nmarkl@hunan.rastek.com\n\n"This R2 unit has a bad motivator!"\n - Luke, Star Wars\n',
'From: geb@cs.pitt.edu (Gordon Banks)\nSubject: Re: vangus nerve (vagus nerve)\nArticle-I.D.: pitt.19397\nReply-To: geb@cs.pitt.edu (Gordon Banks)\nOrganization: Univ. of Pittsburgh Computer Science\nLines: 16\n\nIn article <52223@seismo.CSS.GOV> bwb@seismo.CSS.GOV (Brian W. Barker) writes:\n\n>mostly right. Is there a connection between vomiting\n>and fainting that has something to do with the vagus nerve?\n>\nStimulation of the vagus nerve slows the heart and drops the blood\npressure.\n\n\n\n\n-- \n----------------------------------------------------------------------------\nGordon Banks N3JXP | "Skepticism is the chastity of the intellect, and\ngeb@cadre.dsl.pitt.edu | it is shameful to surrender it too soon." \n----------------------------------------------------------------------------\n',
'Subject: Re: Gospel Dating\nFrom: kmr4@po.CWRU.edu (Keith M. Ryan)\nOrganization: Case Western Reserve University\nNNTP-Posting-Host: b64635.student.cwru.edu\nLines: 64\n\nIn article <C4vyFu.JJ6@darkside.osrhe.uoknor.edu> bil@okcforum.osrhe.edu (Bill Conner) writes:\n\n>Keith M. Ryan (kmr4@po.CWRU.edu) wrote:\n>: \n>: \tWild and fanciful claims require greater evidence. If you state that \n>: one of the books in your room is blue, I certainly do not need as much \n>: evidence to believe than if you were to claim that there is a two headed \n>: leapard in your bed. [ and I don\'t mean a male lover in a leotard! ]\n>\n>Keith, \n>\n>If the issue is, "What is Truth" then the consequences of whatever\n>proposition argued is irrelevent. If the issue is, "What are the consequences\n>if such and such -is- True", then Truth is irrelevent. Which is it to\n>be?\n\n\tI disagree: every proposition needs a certain amount of evidence \nand support, before one can believe it. There are a miriad of factors for \neach individual. As we are all different, we quite obviously require \ndifferent levels of evidence.\n\n\tAs one pointed out, one\'s history is important. While in FUSSR, one \nmay not believe a comrade who states that he owns five pairs of blue jeans. \nOne would need more evidence, than if one lived in the United States. The \nonly time such a statement here would raise an eyebrow in the US, is if the \nindividual always wear business suits, etc.\n\n\tThe degree of the effect upon the world, and the strength of the \nclaim also determine the amount of evidence necessary. When determining the \nlevel of evidence one needs, it is most certainly relevent what the \nconsequences of the proposition are.\n\n\n\n\tIf the consequences of a proposition is irrelvent, please explain \nwhy one would not accept: The electro-magnetic force of attraction between \ntwo charged particles is inversely proportional to the cube of their \ndistance apart. \n\n\tRemember, if the consequences of the law are not relevent, then\nwe can not use experimental evidence as a disproof. If one of the \nconsequences of the law is an incongruency between the law and the state of \naffairs, or an incongruency between this law and any other natural law, \nthey are irrelevent when theorizing about the "Truth" of the law.\n\n\tGiven that any consequences of a proposition is irrelvent, including \nthe consequence of self-contradiction or contradiction with the state of \naffiars, how are we ever able to judge what is true or not; let alone find\n"The Truth"?\n\n\n\n\tBy the way, what is "Truth"? Please define before inserting it in \nthe conversation. Please explain what "Truth" or "TRUTH" is. I do think that \nanything is ever known for certain. Even if there IS a "Truth", we could \nnever possibly know if it were. I find the concept to be meaningless.\n\n--\n\n\n "Satan and the Angels do not have freewill. \n They do what god tells them to do. "\n\n S.N. Mozumder (snm6394@ultb.isc.rit.edu) \n',
'From: marka@hcx1.ssd.csd.harris.com (Mark Ashley)\nSubject: Re: Question about Virgin Mary\nOrganization: Ft. Lauderdale, FL\nLines: 74\n\n>[I think you\'re talking about the "assumption of the Blessed Virgin\n>Mary". It says that "The Immaculate Mother of God, the ever Virgin\n>Mary, having completed the course of her earthly life, was assumed\n>body and soul into heavenly glory." This was defined by a Papal\n>statement in 1950, though it had certainly been believed by some\n>before that. Like the Immaculate Conception, this is primarily a\n>Roman Catholic doctrine, and like it, it has no direct Biblical\n>support. Note that Catholics do not believe in "sola scriptura".\n>That is, they do not believe that the Bible is the only source of\n>Christian knowledge. Thus the fact that a doctrine has little\n>Biblical support is not necessarily significant to them. They believe\n>that truth can be passed on through traditions of the Church, and also\n>that it can be revealed to the Church. I\'m not interested in yet\n>another Catholic/Protestant argument, but if any Catholics can tell us\n>the basis for these beliefs, I think it would be appropriate. --clh]\n\nIn the Bible, there are a lot of instances where God speaks\nto people, where a person just "came to know" some piece\nof information, where a person walks off into the desert\nfor "40 days", etc. With all of God\'s power He certainly can\ndo whatever He wants when He wants it. The Bible "ends"\nwith the book of Revelations. But does God\'s reign end there ? No.\nSo who can say for sure that God\'s messages are either no longer\nhappening or still happening ?\n\nI can now hear the clamor for proof. 8-)\nWith the cold response I\'ve gotten from the past from this\ngroup, it\'s very hard to get the point across. I\'ll only\ngo over the physical stuff so that skeptics can look\nat documents stored somewhere. I\'ve cited the uncorrupted\nbodies of saints before. They\'re still there. 8-)\nThe apparitions at Fatima, Portugal culminated in a miracle\nspecifically granted to show God\'s existence. That was\nthe spinning/descending of the sun. It was seen in several\ncountries. That event is "approved" by the Pope. Currently,\nimages of Mary in Japan, Korea, Yugoslavia, Philippines, Africa\nare showing tears (natural or blood). These are still under\ninvestigation by the Church. But realize that investigations\ntake decades to finish. And if the message is Christ will come\nin ten days, that\'s a bit too late, isn\'t it 8-).\nOther events under investigation are inner locutions ("coming\nto know"), stigmata (the person exhibits Christ\'s wounds. And\nthey don\'t heal. And doctor\'s don\'t know why).\nNon-believers are welcome to pore through documents, I\'m sure.\n\nThis stuff is not like Koresh. Or Oral Roberts (give me $5M\nor God will call me home). It\'s free. Find out why they\'re\nhappening (as we ourselves are studying why). If anybody\ncan figure this out, tell us ! You can be of any religion.\nIf you have the resources, go to one of the countries I mentioned.\nThese are not "members only" events. God and Mary invites \neverybody.\n\nSo in conclusion (finally) ...\nWe RC\'s believe in the modern day manifestations of God and Mary.\nWe are scared to death sometimes although we\'re told not to.\nThere are more proofs and events. And that is why "not everything\nis in the Bible". Although in a lot of the apparitions, we are told\nto read the Bible.\n\nAs far as the Protestant vs. Catholics issue is concerned...\nIn the end, God\'s churches will unite. I\'m not sure how.\nI have some idea. But the point is we shouldn\'t worry\nabout the "versus" part. Just do God\'s work. That\'s all\nthat matters. Unity will come.\n\nBTW, I\'m just a plain person. I\'m not the Pope\'s spokesperson.\nBut I am RC.\n\n-- \n-------------------------------------------------------------------------\nMark Ashley |DISCLAIMER: My opinions. Not Harris\'\nmarka@gcx1.ssd.csd.harris.com |\nThe Lost Los Angelino |\n',
"From: lipman@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Robert Lipman)\nSubject: CALL FOR PRESENTATIONS: Navy SciViz/VR Seminar\nArticle-I.D.: oasys.32850\nExpires: 30 Apr 93 04:00:00 GMT\nReply-To: lipman@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Robert Lipman)\nDistribution: usa\nOrganization: Carderock Division, NSWC, Bethesda, MD\nLines: 65\n\n\n\t\t\tCALL FOR PRESENTATIONS\n\t\n NAVY SCIENTIFIC VISUALIZATION AND VIRTUAL REALITY SEMINAR\n\n\t\t\tTuesday, June 22, 1993\n\n\t Carderock Division, Naval Surface Warfare Center\n\t (formerly the David Taylor Research Center)\n\t\t\t Bethesda, Maryland\n\nSPONSOR: NESS (Navy Engineering Software System) is sponsoring a \none-day Navy Scientific Visualization and Virtual Reality Seminar. \nThe purpose of the seminar is to present and exchange information for\nNavy-related scientific visualization and virtual reality programs, \nresearch, developments, and applications.\n\nPRESENTATIONS: Presentations are solicited on all aspects of \nNavy-related scientific visualization and virtual reality. All \ncurrent work, works-in-progress, and proposed work by Navy \norganizations will be considered. Four types of presentations are \navailable.\n\n 1. Regular presentation: 20-30 minutes in length\n 2. Short presentation: 10 minutes in length\n 3. Video presentation: a stand-alone videotape (author need not \n\tattend the seminar)\n 4. Scientific visualization or virtual reality demonstration (BYOH)\n\nAccepted presentations will not be published in any proceedings, \nhowever, viewgraphs and other materials will be reproduced for \nseminar attendees.\n\nABSTRACTS: Authors should submit a one page abstract and/or videotape to:\n\n Robert Lipman\n Naval Surface Warfare Center, Carderock Division\n Code 2042\n Bethesda, Maryland 20084-5000\n\n VOICE (301) 227-3618; FAX (301) 227-5753 \n E-MAIL lipman@oasys.dt.navy.mil\n\nAuthors should include the type of presentation, their affiliations, \naddresses, telephone and FAX numbers, and addresses. Multi-author \npapers should designate one point of contact.\n\nDEADLINES: The abstact submission deadline is April 30, 1993. \nNotification of acceptance will be sent by May 14, 1993. \nMaterials for reproduction must be received by June 1, 1993.\n\nFor further information, contact Robert Lipman at the above address.\n\n\t PLEASE DISTRIBUTE AS WIDELY AS POSSIBLE, THANKS.\n\n\n\n\nRobert Lipman | Internet: lipman@oasys.dt.navy.mil\nDavid Taylor Model Basin - CDNSWC | or: lip@ocean.dt.navy.mil\nComputational Signatures and | Voicenet: (301) 227-3618\n Structures Group, Code 2042 | Factsnet: (301) 227-5753\nBethesda, Maryland 20084-5000 | Phishnet: stockings@long.legs\n\t\t\t\t \nThe sixth sick shiek's sixth sheep's sick.\n",
'From: bcash@crchh410.NoSubdomain.NoDomain (Brian Cash)\nSubject: Re: free moral agency\nNntp-Posting-Host: crchh410\nOrganization: BNR, Inc.\nLines: 24\n\nIn article <house.734841689@helios>, house@helios.usq.EDU.AU (ron house) writes:\n|> marshall@csugrad.cs.vt.edu (Kevin Marshall) writes:\n|> \n|> >healta@saturn.wwc.edu (TAMMY R HEALY) writes:\n|> \n|> >> you might think "oh yeah. then why didn\'t god destroy it in the bud \n|> >>before it got to the point it is now--with millions through the \n|> >>ages suffering along in life?"\n|> >> the only answer i know is that satan made the claim that his way was \n|> >>better than God\'s. God is allowing satan the chance to prove that his way \n|> >>is better than God\'s. we all know what that has brought. \n|> \n|> >Come on! God is allowing the wishes of one individual to supercede the\n|> >well-being of billions? I seriously doubt it. Having read the Bible\n|> >twice, I never got the impression that God and Satan were working in some\n|> >sort of cooperative arrangement.\n|> \n|> Read the book of Job.\n|> \n\nOh, that was just a bet.\n\n\nBrian /-|-\\ \n',
'From: simon@dcs.warwick.ac.uk (Simon Clippingdale)\nSubject: Re: islamic authority over women\nNntp-Posting-Host: nin\nOrganization: Department of Computer Science, Warwick University, England\nLines: 49\n\nIn article <1993Apr5.023044.19580@ultb.isc.rit.edu> snm6394@ultb.isc.rit.edu (S.N. Mozumder ) writes:\n\n> One thing that relates is among Navy men that get tatoos that say "Mom",\n> because of the love of their mom. It makes for more virile men.\n> Compare that with how homos are raised. Do a study and you will get my\n> point.\n\nOh, Bobby. You\'re priceless. Did I ever tell you that?\n\nMy policy with Bobby\'s posts, should anyone give a damn, is to flick\nthrough the thread at high speed, searching for posts of Bobby\'s which\nhave generated a whole pile of followups, then go in and extract the\nhilarious quote inevitably present for .sig purposes. Works for me.\n\nFor the guy who said he\'s just arrived, and asked whether Bobby\'s for real,\nyou betcha. Welcome to alt.atheism, and rest assured that it gets worse.\nI have a few pearls of wisdom from Bobby which I reproduce below. Is anyone\n(Keith?) keeping a big file of such stuff?\n\n "In Allah\'s infinite wisdom, the universe was created from nothing,\n just by saying "Be", and it became. Therefore Allah exists."\n --- Bobby Mozumder proving the existence of Allah, #1\n\n "Wait. You just said that humans are rarely reasonable. Doesn\'t that\n contradict atheism, where everything is explained through logic and\n reason? This is THE contradiction in atheism that proves it false."\n --- Bobby Mozumder proving the existence of Allah, #2\n\n "Plus, to the believer, it would be contradictory\n to the Quran for Allah not to exist."\n --- Bobby Mozumder proving the existence of Allah, #3\n\nand now\n\n "One thing that relates is among Navy men that get tatoos that say "Mom",\n because of the love of their mom. It makes for more virile men. Compare\n that with how homos are raised. Do a study and you will get my point."\n -- Bobby Mozumder being Islamically Rigorous on alt.atheism\n\nMmmmm. Quality *and* quantity from the New Voice of Islam (pbuh).\n\nCheers\n\nSimon\n-- \nSimon Clippingdale simon@dcs.warwick.ac.uk\nDepartment of Computer Science Tel (+44) 203 523296\nUniversity of Warwick FAX (+44) 203 525714\nCoventry CV4 7AL, U.K.\n',
'From: lioness@maple.circa.ufl.edu\nSubject: Re: comp.graphics.programmer\nOrganization: Center for Instructional and Research Computing Activities\nLines: 68\nReply-To: LIONESS@ufcc.ufl.edu\nNNTP-Posting-Host: maple.circa.ufl.edu\n\nIn article <andreasa.157.735211806@dhhalden.no>, andreasa@dhhalden.no (ANDREAS ARFF) writes:\n|>Hello netters\n|>\n|>Sorry, I don\'t know if this is the right way of doing this kind of thing,\n|>probably should be a CFV, but since I don\'t have tha ability to create a \n|>news group myself, I just want to start the discussion. \n|>\n|>I enjoy reading c.g very much, but I often find it difficult to sort out what\n|>I\'m interested in. Everything from screen-drivers, graphics cards, graphics\n|>programming and graphics programs are discused here. What I\'d like is a \n|>comp.graphics.programmer news group.\n|>What do you other think.\n\nThis sounds wonderful, but it seems no one either wants to spend time doing\nthis, or they don\'t have the power to do so. For example, I would like\nto see a comp.graphics architecture like this:\n\ncomp.graphics.algorithms.2d\ncomp.graphics.algorithms.3d\ncomp.graphics.algorithms.misc\ncomp.graphics.hardware\ncomp.graphics.misc\ncomp.graphics.software/apps\n\nHowever, that is almost overkill. Something more like this would probably\nmake EVERYONE a lot happier:\n\ncomp.graphics.programmer\ncomp.graphics.hardware\ncomp.graphics.apps\ncomp.graphics.misc\n\nIt would be nice to see specialized groups devote to 2d, 3d, morphing,\nraytracing, image processing, interactive graphics, toolkits, languages,\nobject systems, etc. but these could be posted to a relevant group or\nhave a mailing list organized.\n\nThat way when someone reads news they don\'t have to see these subject\nheadings, which are rather disparate:\n\nSystem specific stuff ( should be under comp.sys or comp.os.???.programmer ):\n\n\t"Need help programming GL"\n\t"ModeX programming information?"\n\t"Fast sprites on PC"\n\nHardware technical stuff:\n\n\t"Speed of Weitek P9000"\n\t"Drivers for SpeedStar 24X"\n\nApplications oriented stuff:\n\n\t"VistaPro 3.0 help"\n\t"How good is 3dStudio?"\n\t"Best image processing program for Amiga"\n\nProgramming oriented stuff:\n\n\t"Fast polygon routine needed"\n\t"Good morphing alogirhtm wanted"\n\t"Best depth sort for triangles?"\n\t"Which C++ library to get?"\n\nI wish someone with the power would get a CFD and then a CFV going on\nthis stuff....this newsgroup needs it.\n\nBrian\n',
'From: jdt@voodoo.ca.boeing.com (Jim Tomlinson (jimt II))\nSubject: An agnostic\'s question\nOrganization: BoGART To You Buddy, Bellevue, WA\nLines: 24\n\nPardon me if this is the wrong newsgroup. I would describe myself as\nan agnostic, in so far as I\'m sure there is no single, universal\nsupreme being, but if there is one and it is just, we will surely be\njudged on whether we lived good lives, striving to achieve that\ngoodness that is within the power of each of us. Now, the\ncomplication is that one of my best friends has become very\nfundamentalist. That would normally be a non-issue with me, but he\nfeels it is his responsibility to proselytize me (which I guess it is,\naccording to his faith). This is a great strain to our friendship. I\nwould have no problem if the subject didn\'t come up, but when it does,\nthe discussion quickly begins to offend both of us: he is offended\nbecause I call into question his bedrock beliefs; I am offended by\nwhat I feel is a subscription to superstition, rationalized by such\ncircular arguments as \'the Bible is God\'s word because He tells us in\nthe Bible that it is so.\' So my question is, how can I convince him\nthat this is a subject better left undiscussed, so we can preserve\nwhat is (in all areas other than religious beliefs) a great\nfriendship? How do I convince him that I am \'beyond saving\' so he\nwon\'t try? Thanks for any advice.\n\n-- \nJim Tomlinson 206-865-6578 \\ "falling snow\nBoGART Project jdt@voodoo.ca.boeing.com \\ excellent snow"\nBoeing Computer Services ...uunet!bcstec!voodoo!jdt \\ - Anderson/Gabriel\n',
"From: af774@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Chad Cipiti)\nSubject: Good shareware paint and/or animation software for SGI?\nOrganization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)\nLines: 15\nReply-To: af774@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Chad Cipiti)\nNNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu\n\n\nDoes anyone know of any good shareware animation or paint software for an SGI\n machine? I've exhausted everyplace on the net I can find and still don't hava\n a nice piece of software.\n\nThanks alot!\n\nChad\n\n\n-- \nKnock, knock. Chad Cipiti\nWho's there? af774@cleveland.freenet.edu\n cipiti@bobcat.ent.ohiou.edu\nIt might be Heisenberg. chad@voxel.zool.ohiou.edu\n",
"From: keith@cco.caltech.edu (Keith Allan Schneider)\nSubject: Re: Morality? (was Re: <Political Atheists?)\nOrganization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena\nLines: 23\nNNTP-Posting-Host: punisher.caltech.edu\n\nlivesey@solntze.wpd.sgi.com (Jon Livesey) writes:\n\n>>So, you are saying that it isn't possible for an instinctive act\n>>to be moral one?\n>I like to think that many things are possible. Explain to me\n>how instinctive acts can be moral acts, and I am happy to listen.\n\nFor example, if it were instinctive not to murder...\n\n>>That is, in order for an act to be an act of morality,\n>>the person must consider the immoral action but then disregard \n>>it?\n>Weaker than that. There must be the possibility that the\n>organism - it's not just people we are talking about - can\n>consider alternatives.\n\nSo, only intelligent beings can be moral, even if the bahavior of other\nbeings mimics theirs? And, how much emphasis do you place on intelligence?\nAnimals of the same species could kill each other arbitarily, but they\ndon't. Are you trying to say that this isn't an act of morality because\nmost animals aren't intelligent enough to think like we do?\n\nkeith\n",
'From: keith@cco.caltech.edu (Keith Allan Schneider)\nSubject: Re: <Political Atheists?\nOrganization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena\nLines: 12\nNNTP-Posting-Host: punisher.caltech.edu\n\nlivesey@solntze.wpd.sgi.com (Jon Livesey) writes:\n\n>Now along comes Mr Keith Schneider and says "Here is an "objective\n>moral system". And then I start to ask him about the definitions\n>that this "objective" system depends on, and, predictably, the whole\n>thing falls apart.\n\nIt only falls apart if you attempt to apply it. This doesn\'t mean that\nan objective system can\'t exist. It just means that one cannot be\nimplemented.\n\nkeith\n',
"From: kohut1@urz.unibas.ch\nSubject: Help ! Miro Crystal or ATI GUP ?\nOrganization: University of Basel, Switzerland\nLines: 21\n\n\n\nI'm planning to buy a new VLB/EISA system with a good graphic performance.\nSo far I looked at the ATI GUP VLB as my favorite graphics-card. But \nrecently I heard something about a new card from Miro. It was the Miro\nCrystal 24s with 3 MB and True Color support up to 1024x768. It costs just a\nlittle more than the ATI. So, can't decide which one matches better my needs.\nAny technical references and performance comparisons (especially from the\nMiro card) would be greatly appreciated.\n\n-Peter-\n\nE-Mail : kohut1@urz.unibas.ch\n\n ******************************\n **** Universitas Basiliensis *****\n **** Switzerland *****\n ********************************\n\n\n\n",
'From: mchamberland@violet.uwaterloo.ca (Marc Chamberland)\nSubject: Re: God-shaped hole (was Re: "Accepting Jeesus in your heart...")\nOrganization: University of Waterloo\nLines: 17\n\nIn article <Apr.20.03.03.15.1993.3845@geneva.rutgers.edu>, fraseraj@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (Andrew J Fraser) writes:\n> [Several people were involved in trying to figure out who first used\n> the phrase "God-shaped hole". --clh]\n> \n> "There is a God shaped vacuum in all of us" (or something to that effect) is\n> generally attributed to Blaise Pascal.\n\nI believe this is a just another of way of expressing the basic truth\n"All things were created by him and FOR him." (emphasis mine) \nCol. 1:16 , Rev. 4:11. If you and I have been created for God, naturally\nthere will be a vacuum if God is not our all and all. In fact,\nthe first chapter of Collosians brings out this status of Christ, that\nHe should have the preeminence. When you life is alligned with Him,\nand you do His will, then the vacuum is filled.\n\nMarc Chamberland\nmchamberland@violet.uwaterloo.ca\n',
"From: green@island.COM (Robert Greenstein)\nSubject: Re: accupuncture and AIDS\nOrganization: Strawman Incorporated\nLines: 21\n\nIn article <C5t76D.2x6@news.cso.uiuc.edu> euclid@mrcnext.cso.uiuc.edu (Euclid K.) writes:\n>aliceb@tea4two.Eng.Sun.COM (Alice Taylor) writes:\n>\n>>A friend of mine is seeing an acupuncturist and\n>>wants to know if there is any danger of getting\n>>AIDS from the needles.\n>\n>\tAsk the practitioner whether he uses the pre-sterilized disposable\n>needles, or if he reuses needles, sterilizing them between use. In the\n>former case there's no conceivable way to get AIDS from the needles. In\n>the latter case it's highly unlikely (though many practitioners use the\n>disposable variety anyway).\n\nIt is illegal to perform acupuncture with unsterilized needles. No licensed\npractitioner would dare do this. Also there is not a single documented case\nof transmission of AIDS via acupuncture needles. I wouldn't worry about it.\n-- \n******************************************************************************\nRobert Greenstein What the fool cannot learn he laughs at, thinking\ngreen@srilanka.island.com that by his laughter he shows superiority instead\n of latent idiocy - M. Corelli\n",
'From: geb@cs.pitt.edu (Gordon Banks)\nSubject: Re: Blindsight\nReply-To: geb@cs.pitt.edu (Gordon Banks)\nOrganization: Univ. of Pittsburgh Computer Science\nLines: 14\n\nIn article <1993Mar26.185117.21400@cs.rochester.edu> fulk@cs.rochester.edu (Mark Fulk) writes:\n>In article <33587@castle.ed.ac.uk> hrvoje@castle.ed.ac.uk (H Hecimovic) writes:\n>compensation? Or are lesions localized to the SC too rare to be able\n>to tell?\n\nExtremely rare in humans. Usually so much else is involved you\'d\njust have a mess to sort out. Birds do all vision in the tectum,\ndon\'t they? \n\n-- \n----------------------------------------------------------------------------\nGordon Banks N3JXP | "Skepticism is the chastity of the intellect, and\ngeb@cadre.dsl.pitt.edu | it is shameful to surrender it too soon." \n----------------------------------------------------------------------------\n',
"From: med50003@nusunix1.nus.sg (WANSAICHEONG KHIN-LIN)\nSubject: Re: Lasers for dermatologists\nOrganization: National University of Singapore\nX-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]\nLines: 12\n\nIt is not true that dermatologists gave not reached the laser age, in\nfact, lasers in dermatological surgery is a very new and exciting field.\n\nIt probably won't be effective in tinea pedis because the laser is\nusually a superficial burn (to avoid any deeper damage). Limited tinea\npedis can be cured albeit sometimes slowly by topical antifungals as\nwell as systemic medication i.e. tablets. Finally, a self-diagnosis is\nnot always reliable, lichen simplex chronicus can look like a fungal\ninfection and requires very different treatment.\n\ngervais\n\n",
'From: bil@okcforum.osrhe.edu (Bill Conner)\nSubject: Re: Is Morality Constant (was Re: Biblical Rape)\nNntp-Posting-Host: okcforum.osrhe.edu\nOrganization: Okcforum Unix Users Group\nX-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]\nLines: 65\n\nJim Perry (perry@dsinc.com) wrote:\n\n: }Xenophobia, both *de facto* and *de jure* as implemented\n: }in legal systems, is widespread, while the Bible,\n: }although not 100% egalitarian, specifically preaches\n: }kindness to the stranger, and emphasizes in the Book\n: }of Ruth, that a foreigner can join the nation and\n: }give rise to one of the great heroes of the nation.\n: \n: Clearly better than the alternative, but as an American what strikes\n: me as strange about this story is that it should have even been\n: considered an issue.\n\nJim,\n\nThere are a couple of things about your post and others in this thread\nthat are a little confusing. An atheist is one for whom all things can\nbe understood as processes of nature - exclusively. There is no need\nfor any recourse to Divnity to describe or explain anything. There is\nno purpose or direction for any event beyond those required by\nphysics, chemistry, biology, etc.; everything is random, nothing is\ndetermnined.\nThis would also have to include human intelligence of course and all\nits products. There is nothing requiring that life evolve or that it\nacquire intelligence, it\'s just a happy accident. For an atheist, no\nevent can be preferred to another or be said to have more or less\nvalue than another in any naturalistic sense, and no thought -about-\nan event can have value. \nThe products of our intelligence are acquired from our environment,\nfrom teaching, training, observation and experience and are only\nsignificant to the individual mind wherein they reside. These mental\nprocesses and the images they produce for us are just electrical\nactivity and nothing more; content is of no consequence. The human\nmind is as much a response to natural forces as water running down a\nhill.\nHow then can an atheist judge value? What is the basis for criticizing\nthe values ennumerated in the Bible or the purposes imputed to God? On\nwhat grounds can the the behavior of the reliogious be condemned? It\nseems that, in judging the values that motivate others to action, you\nhave to have some standard against which conduct is measured, but what\nin nature can serve that purpose? What law of nature can you invoke to\nestablish your values.\nSince every event is entirely and exclusively a physical event, what\ndifference could it possibly make what -anyone- does, religious or\notherwise, there can be no -meaning- or gradation of value. The only\nway an atheist can object to -any- behaviour is to admit that the\nobjection is entirely subjective and that he(she) just doesn\'t like it\n- that\'s it. Any value judgement must be prefaced by the disclaimer\nthat it is nothing more than a matter of personal opinion and carries\nno weight in any "absolute" sense.\nThat you don\'t like what God told people to do says nothing about God\nor God\'s commands, it says only that there was an electrical event in your\nnervous system that created an emotional state that your mind coupled\nwith a pre-existing thought-set to form that reaction. That your\nobjections -seem- well founded is due to the way you\'ve been\nconditioned; there is no "truth" content. The whole of your\nintellectual landscape is an illusion, a virtual reality.\nI didn\'t make these rules, it\'s inherent in naturalistic atheism and\nto be consistent, you have to accept the non-significance of any human\nthought, even your own. All of this being so, you have excluded\nyourself from any discussion of values, right, wrong, goood, evil,\netc. and cannot participate. Your opinion about the Bible can have no\nweight whatsoever.\n\nBill\n',
'From: REXLEX@fnal.fnal.gov\nSubject: Re: Certainty and Arrogance\nOrganization: FNAL/AD/Net\nLines: 110\n\nIn article <Apr.17.01.11.29.1993.2278@geneva.rutgers.edu>\nkilroy@gboro.rowan.edu (Dr Nancy\'s Sweetie) writes:\n\n>Someone called `REXLEX\' has claimed that there IS a way out of the loop, but\n>he did not bother to explain what it was, preferring instead to paraphrase\n>Sartre, ramble about Wittgenstein, and say that the conclusion of my argument\n>leads to relativism.\n\nI will answer this as I find time.\n\n>\n>`REXLEX\' suggested that people read _He is There and He is Not Silent_, by\n>Francis Schaeffer. I didn\'t think very highly of it, but I think that\n>Mr Schaeffer is grossly overrated by many Evangelical Christians. Somebody\n>else might like it, though, so don\'t let my opinion stop you from reading it.\n>\n>If someone is interested in my opinion, I\'d suggest _On Certainty_, by\n>Ludwig Wittgenstein.\n>\n>\n>Darren F Provine / kilroy@gboro.rowan.edu\n>"If any substantial number of [ talk.religion.misc ] readers read some\n> Wittgenstein, 60% of the postings would disappear. (If they *understood*\n> some Wittgenstein, 98% would disappear. :-))" -- Michael L Siemon\n>\n\nNotice what I said about this book. I called it "Easy reading." The reason I\ndropped philosphy as my major was because I ran into too many pharisaical\nSimon\'s. I don\'t know how many walking encyclopedia\'s I ran across in\nphilosphy classes. The problem isn\'t in knowing sooooo much more than your\naverage lay person, the problem comes when you become puffed up about it. \nSchaeffer is just fine for the average lay person. That was who he was\nwritting to. I suppose that you would have criticised John that his gospel was\nto simple. I\'ve talked with Schaeffer one on one. I\'ve been in lectures with\nthe man when he was being drilled by philosphy students and prof\'s from secular\nas well as Christian universities. (ND alone would fill both those catagories) \nHis answers were enough that the prof\'s themselves often were taken back and\ncaused to re-think what their question was. I saw this time and time again at\ndifferent open forums. So yes, Schaeffers books are by in large, well,\nsimplistic. It certainly isn\'t grad level reading. But we must get off our\nhigh horses when it comes to recommended reading. Do you seriously think most\npeople would get through the first chapter of Wittgenstein? I may have more to\nsay about this secular scientist at another time.\n\nAlso, one must finally get beyond the doubt caused by *insistent*\ninquisitiveness. One cannot live his life constantly from a cartisian doubt\nbase. \n\nLook, the Christian wholeheartedly supports genuine rationality. But we must\nadd a qualification to give this balance. Christianity is second to none in\nkeeping reason in its place. We never know the value of a thing until we know\nits limits. Put unlimited value on something and in the end you will exhaust\nit of all value!\n\nTHis is why Xianity is thoroughly rational but not the least bit rationalistic.\n It also explains the curious fact that it is rationalism, and not Christian\nfaith, which leads to irrationality. If we forget the limits of a thing, we\nfly in the face of reality and condem ourselves to learn the simple ironic\nlesson of life: \n\n"More without limits is less; less with limits is more." \n\nOr as I have so often stated it, freedom without form soon becomes form w/o\nfreedom.\n\nLet\'s put it another way. The rationality of faith is implacably opposed to\nabsurdity but has no quarrel with mystery. Think about that. It can tell the\ndifference between the two if you will let it. Christianity\'s contention with\nrationalism is not that it has too much reason in it, but that it has very\nlittle else. When a Christian comes to faith his understanding and his trust\ngo hand in hand, but as he continues in faith his trust may sometimes be called\nto go on by itself without his understanding.\n\nThis is where the principle of suspended judgment applies. At such time if the\nChristian faith is to be itself and let God be God, it must suspend judgment\nand say, "Father I do not understand you but I trust you." Now don\'t read all\nyour objections of me into that statement. I wasn\'t saying I do not understand\nyou at all, but I trust you anyway." It means that "I do not understand You *in\nthis situation* but I do understand *why I trust You* anyway" Therefore I can\ntrust that you understand even though I do not. The former is a mystery\nunrelieved by rationality and indistinguishable from absurdity. The latter is\na statement of rationality of faith walking hand in hand with the mystery of\nFaith. So.... the principle of suspended judgment is not irrational. It is\nnot a leap of faith but a walk of faith. As believers we cannot always know\nwhy, but we canalways know why we trust God who knows why and this makes all\nthe difference.\n\nNow, there is one obvious snag to all this and this is where I have parted\ncompany with philosophy- what is eminently reasonable in theory is a rather bit\nmore difficult in practice. In practice the pressure of mystery acts on faith\nlike the insistent "whying" of a 3 year old. It isn\'t just that we would like\nto know what we do not know but that we feel we *must* know what we cannot\nknow. The one produces frustration because curiosity is denied; the other\nleads to genuine anguish. More specifically the poorer our understanding is in\ncoming to faith the more necessary it will be to understand everything after\ncoming to faith. If we do not know why we trust God, then we will always need\nto know exactly what God is doing in order to trust him. Failing to grasp\nthat, we may not be able to trust him, for anything we do not understand may\ncount decisevely against what we are able to trust. \n\nIf, on the other hand, we do know why we trust God, we will be able to trust\nhim in situations where we do not understand what He is doing. (Too many Xian\nleaders teach as if the Christian had a window in the back of his head which\nallows for understanding at every foot fall) For what God is doing may be\nambiguous, but it will not be inherently contradictory! It may be mystery to\nus, but mystery is only inscrutable; what would be insufferable is absurdity.\nAnd that my friend, was the conclusion of Nietzche both in theory and in\npractice. \n\n--Rex\n',
"From: debbie@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Debbie Forest)\nSubject: Re: Hismanal, et. al.--side effects\nOrganization: Computing Services Division, University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee\nLines: 19\nNNTP-Posting-Host: 129.89.7.4\n\nIn article <1993Apr21.231301.3050@seas.gwu.edu> sheryl@seas.gwu.edu (Sheryl Coppenger) writes:\n<In article <1993Apr21.024103.29880@spdcc.com> dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer) writes:\n<>Hismanal (astemizole) is most definitely linked to weight gain.\n<>It really is peculiar that some antihistamines have this effect,\n<>and even more so an antihistamine like astemizole which purportedly\n<>doesn't cross the blood-brain barrier and so tends not to cause\n<>drowsiness.\n<\n<The original poster mentioned fatigue. I had that too, but it was\n<mostly due to the really bizarre dreams I was having -- I wasn't getting\n<any rest. My doctor said that was a common reaction. If astemizole\n<doesn't cross the blood-brain barrier, how does it cause that side\n<effect? Any ideas?\n\nIt made me really BITCHY for the first few weeks. Now that I think about\nit I was having some bizarre dreams too. My doctor said it made him feel\nlike he had to be DOING something all the time. But if you keep taking it,\nafter a few weeks these symptoms seem to go away, he said hang in there. \nI did and they did. \n",
'From: ds@aris.nswc.navy.mil (Demetrios Sapounas)\nSubject: 3D display software\nOrganization: NSWC\nLines: 19\n\n\n\n I have the need for displaying 2 1/2 D surfaces under X, using only\nXlib, Xt and Xm. Does anyone know of a package, available on internet,\nwhich will be able to do the work?\n\n I am looking for a STAND-ALONE package providing similar functions\nto "xprism3" available with Khoros, but without the numerous libraries\nrequired for it. I want to be able to recompile it and run it on\nvarious platforms, from SGIs to i486s (UNIX).\n\n Any help will be appreciated.\n\n\n=======================================================================\nDemetrios Sapounas Tel +1 (703) 663.8332\nL 115, NSWC Fax +1 (703) 663.1939\nDahlgren, VA 22448-5000, USA email ds@aris.nswc.navy.mil\n=======================================================================\n',
'From: jodfishe@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (joseph dale fisher)\nSubject: Re: tuff to be a Christian?\nOrganization: Indiana University\nLines: 59\n\nIn article <Apr.17.01.10.58.1993.2246@geneva.rutgers.edu> mdbs@ms.uky.edu (no name) writes:\n>bissda@saturn.wwc.edu (DAN LAWRENCE BISSELL) writes:\n>\n>>\tI don\'t think most people understand what a Christian is. It \n>>is certainly not what I see a lot in churches. Rather I think it \n>>should be a way of life, and a total sacrafice of everything for God\'s \n>>sake. He loved us enough to die and save us so we should do the \n>\n>\tTypical statement from an irrational and brainwashed person.\n>The bible was written by some male chavnist thousands of years ago\n>(as were all of the "holy" books). Follow the parts that you think are\n>suitable for modern life. Ignore the others. For heaven\'s (!) sake don\'t\n>take it literally.\n\nPlease, leave heaven out of it. For his own sake, I pray that Dan does\ntake it literally because that\'s how God intended it to be taken. Dan,\nyour view of many groups appears correct from my point of view.\nHowever, I have found a group which is truly meeting requirements laid\ndown by the Bible on what it means to be a disciple of Jesus. I have no\nclue where wwc is, but please mail me. I\'d really like to get you in\ntouch with them.\n\n>\n>>same. Hey we can\'t do it, God himself inspires us to turn our lives \n>>over to him. That\'s tuff and most people don\'t want to do it, to be a \n>\t\t\t\t^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^\n>>real Christian would be something for the strong to persevere at. But \n>\n[insert deletion of ranting about other religions which obviously has\ngone off-center of Dan\'s original context]\n\nDan, I\'m familiar with this one. You\'ve got a point, though. There are\nsome who don\'t want to turn over everything and be a disciple, some have\nno clue about it because they\'ve not been taught, some have done exactly\nthat and turned over everything to follow Jesus, some are blocked by\ndifficult doctrine taught by uncaring Pharisees and teachers of the law.\nHowever, Jesus pointed out what it takes to follow him and to be his\ndisciple in Luke 9:23-26 and Luke 14:25-33. My question is: why do\npeople ignore the command and treat it as optional? I certainly don\'t\nhave an answer to this.\n\n[insert deletion]\n\n>\tParting Question:\n>\t\tWould you have become a Christian if you had not\n>been indoctrinated by your parents? You probably never learned about\n>any other religion to make a comparative study. And therefore I claim\n>you are brain washed.\n\nMy parents had nothing to do with it. God had and has everything to do\nwith it. As for these attacking responses, I must say that I disagree\nwith your tone and what appears to be some very judgmental statements\n(possibly to the point of slander) when talking about people, not what\nthey do. Please, if you have a response, state it instead of flying off\nthe handle on some discourse which may have nothing truly to do with\nwhat is being discussed. I\'m sure both Dan and I would have a much\nhappier time with your responses.\n\nJoe\n',
"From: mcovingt@aisun3.ai.uga.edu (Michael Covington)\nSubject: Re: DID HE REALLY RISE???\nOrganization: AI Programs, University of Georgia, Athens\nLines: 14\n\nThe two historic facts that I think the most important are these:\n\n(1) If Jesus didn't rise from the dead, then he must have done something\nelse equally impressive, in order to create the observed amount of impact.\n\n(2) Nobody ever displayed the dead body of Jesus, even though both the\nJewish and the Roman authorities would have gained a lot by doing so\n(it would have discredited the Christians).\n\n-- \n:- Michael A. Covington internet mcovingt@ai.uga.edu : *****\n:- Artificial Intelligence Programs phone 706 542-0358 : *********\n:- The University of Georgia fax 706 542-0349 : * * *\n:- Athens, Georgia 30602-7415 U.S.A. amateur radio N4TMI : ** *** ** <><\n",
'Organization: Arizona State University\nFrom: <ICGLN@ASUACAD.BITNET>\nSubject: Re: Burzynski\'s "Antineoplastons"\nDistribution: world\nLines: 16\n\nA good source of information on Burzynski\'s method is in *The Cancer Industry*\nby pulitzer-prize nominee Ralph Moss. Also, a non-profit organization called\n"People Against Cancer," which was formed for the purpose of allowing cancer\npatients to access information regarding cancer therapies not endorsed by the\ncancer industry, but which have shown highly promising results (all of which\nare non-toxic). Anyone interested in cancer therapy should contact this organi-\nzation ASAP: People Against Cancer\n PO Box 10\n Otho IA 50569-0010\n(515)972-4444\nFAX (515)972-4415\n\n\npeace\n\ngreg nigh\n',
'From: rayssd!esther@uunet.uu.net (Esther A. Paris)\nSubject: harrassed at work, could use some prayers\nReply-To: esther@demand.ed.ray.com\nOrganization: Raytheon Equipment Division, Marlboro, MA\nLines: 110\n\nMy news feed is broken and I haven\'t received any new news in 243 hours\n(more than 10 days). So, if you reply to this, please send private\nemail to the address esther@demand.ed.ray.com -- I have set the\nReply-To line to have that address but I don\'t know if it will work.\n\n[It depends upon the software, but generally I wouldn\'t expect\nreply-to to cause an email cc to be sent in addition to a posting.\nYou\'ll probably need to do something specific, which will vary\ndepending upon your news software. --clh]\n\nAt any rate, I need some support. (Much thanks to Jayne K who is\nalready supporting me with kind words and prayers!)\n\nI\'ve been working at this company for eight years in various\nengineering jobs. I\'m female. Yesterday I counted and realized that\non seven different occasions I\'ve been sexually harrassed at this\ncompany. Seven times. Eight years. Yesterday was the most recent one;\nsomeone left an X-rated photo of a nude woman in my desk drawer.\n\nI\'m really upset by this. I suppose it could have been worse -- it\ncould have been a man having sex with a sheep or something.\n\nThere was no note. I do not know if it was:\n\n\t- someone\'s idea of an innocent joke, that went awry\n\t- someone\'s sick idea of flirting\n\t- an act of emotional terrorism (that worked!)\n\nI dreaded coming back to work today. What if my boss comes in to ask\nme some kind of question, I don\'t know the answer so I take a military\nspecification down off from my shelf to look up the answer, and out\nfalls a picture of a man having sex with a sheep? I generally have a\nBible on my desk for occasional inspiration; what if I open it up to\nCorinthians and find a picture a la the North American Man Boy Love\nAssociation? I want to throw up just thinking about this stuff.\n\nI can lock up my desk, but I can\'t lock up every book I have in the\noffice. I can\'t trust that someone won\'t shove something into my\nbriefcase or my coat pocket when I\'m not looking so that I go home to\nfind such a picture, or a threat, or a raunchy note about what someone\nwants to do to my body.\n\nTo make it worse, the entire department went out to lunch yesterday to\ntreat our marvelous secretary to lunch. The appointed hour for\nleaving was 11:30. I was working in another building but wanted to go\nto the lunch. So I returned at 11:25, only to find that ever single\nperson had already left for lunch. They left at 11:15 or so. No one\ncould be bothered to call me at the other building, even though my\nnumber was posted. So, I came back to a department that looked like a\nneutron bomb had gone off and I was the sole survivor. This, despite\nthe fact that everyone knew how bad I felt about this naked woman being\nleft in my desk drawer.\n\nI need some prayers --- I can\'t stop crying. I am so deeply wounded\nthat it\'s ridiculous.\n\nI feel like I\'m some kind of sub-human piece of garbage for people to\nreduce me and my sisters to simply sex organs and the sex act. I feel\nlike I\'m a sub-human piece of garbage that\'s not worthy of a simple\nphone call saying "We\'re leaving for Mary\'s lunch a little early so\nthat Bob can get back for a big 1:00 meeting..."\n\nPlease pray that my resentments will either go away, or be miraculously\nturned into something positive. Please pray that whoever is torturing\nme so will stop, and find some healing for him- or herself. Please pray\nfor my being healed from this latest wound (which falls on top of a\nwhole slew of other wounds...). Please pray that I can find a new job\nin a place where the corporate culture does its best to prevent such\nharrassment from happening in the first place, and swiftly acts\nappropriately when something occurs despite its best precautions. (This\ncompany, in my opinion, has pretty words about how sexual harrassment\nisn\'t tolerated but when you get right down to it, how is it that one\nfemale engineer can be touched inappropriately, left obsene or\nthreatening notes, left obscene pictures, spoken to lewdly, etc, seven\ntimes in eight years in the same place? Pretty words from the company\ndo me no good when I\'m terrified or healing from the latest assault.)\n\nAnd please pray that I don\'t turn into an automaton because of this.\nThat\'s my bad habit: "ignore it and it will go away", "you\'re not worth\nanyone\'s time so don\'t go talking to anyone about this", "you\'re right,\nyou are a sub-human piece of garbage and deserve to be treated this\nway", "you are just an object", "you prostitute your mind to this\ncompany so why can\'t others expect you to prostitute your body there as\nwell?", "what makes you think women aren\'t just possessions, and\nnothing more than sex organs and their ability to perform the sex act?"\nThis is the kind of thinking that can catapault one into a major\ndepressive episode; please pray that these thoughts don\'t come into\nmy head and stay there, triggering depression.\n\nPlease pray that this latest trauma doesn\'t come between me and God.\nIn a way, a wound like this is an invitation to a deeper connection to\nGod, and it\'s also a possible trigger for a spiritual crisis that can\nseparate one mentally from God. (I know God doesn\'t drop me from his\nloving hand, but it\'s awfully easy for me to walk to the edge of the\nhand, look down, think I\'m falling and forget that God\'s still holding\non to me.)\n\nAlthough this probably isn\'t entirely appropriate for this newsgroup,\nI really can use the kind of loving support you all provide. For this\nreason I hope good Mr. Moderator allows me this latest indulgence. After\nall, he\'s allowed me the thermometer note, and a few other off-the-wall\ntopics.\n\nThanks in advance to everyone for your support and prayers. Peace to you,\nEsther\n\n-- \nEsther Paris, Raytheon Equipment Div., Marlboro, MA esther@demand.ed.ray.com\n"In his esteem, nothing that was large enough to please, was too small\nfor the fingers." -- John Kitto, "The Lost Senses", 1848\n',
"From: bcash@crchh410.NoSubdomain.NoDomain (Brian Cash)\nSubject: Re: I don't beleive in you either.\nNntp-Posting-Host: crchh410\nOrganization: BNR, Inc.\nLines: 9\n\nIn article <1993Apr13.213055.818@antioc.antioch.edu>, smauldin@antioc.antioch.edu writes:\n|> I stopped believing in you as well, long before the invention of technology.\n|> \n|> --GOD\n|> \n\nAhhh go back to alt.autotheism where you belong!\n\nBrian /-|-\\\n",
'From: neal@cmptrc.lonestar.org (Neal Howard)\nSubject: Re: Science and methodology (was: Homeopathy ... tradition?)\nOrganization: CompuTrac Inc., Richardson TX\nLines: 20\n\nIn article <1993Apr15.150550.15347@ecsvax.uncecs.edu> ccreegan@ecsvax.uncecs.edu (Charles L. Creegan) writes:\n>\n>What about Kekule\'s infamous derivation of the idea of benzene rings\n>from a daydream of snakes in the fire biting their tails? Is this\n>specific enough to count? Certainly it turns up repeatedly in basic\n>phil. of sci. texts as an example of the inventive component of\n>hypothesizing. \n\nI sometimes wonder if Kekule\'s dream wasn\'t just a wee bit influenced by\naromatic solvent vapors ;-) heh heh.\n\n\n-- \n=============================================================================\nNeal Howard \'91 XLH-1200 DoD #686 CompuTrac, Inc (Richardson, TX)\n\t doh #0000001200 |355o33| neal@cmptrc.lonestar.org\n\t Std disclaimer: My opinions are mine, not CompuTrac\'s.\n "Let us learn to dream, gentlemen, and then perhaps\n we shall learn the truth." -- August Kekule\' (1890)\n=============================================================================\n',
"From: dozonoff@bu.edu (david ozonoff)\nSubject: Re: food-related seizures?\nLines: 22\nX-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5\n\nSharon Paulson (paulson@tab00.larc.nasa.gov) wrote:\n: \n{much deleted]\n: \n: \n: The fact that this happened while eating two sugar coated cereals made\n: by Kellog's makes me think she might be having an allergic reaction to\n: something in the coating or the cereals. Of the four of us in our\n: immediate family, Kathryn shows the least signs of the hay fever, running\n: nose, itchy eyes, etc. but we have a lot of allergies in our family history\n: including some weird food allergies - nuts, mushrooms. \n: \n\nMany of these cereals are corn-based. After your post I looked in the\nliterature and located two articles that implicated corn (contains\ntryptophan) and seizures. The idea is that corn in the diet might\npotentiate an already existing or latent seizure disorder, not cause it.\nCheck to see if the two Kellog cereals are corn based. I'd be interested.\n--\nDavid Ozonoff, MD, MPH\t\t |Boston University School of Public Health\ndozonoff@med-itvax1.bu.edu\t |80 East Concord St., T3C\n(617) 638-4620\t\t\t |Boston, MA 02118 \n",
'From: chrisb@tafe.sa.edu.au (Chris BELL)\nSubject: Re: A visit from the Jehovah\'s Witnesses\nOrganization: South Australian Regional Academic and Research Network\nLines: 26\nDistribution: world\nNNTP-Posting-Host: baarnie.tafe.sa.edu.au\n\njbrown@batman.bmd.trw.com writes:\n\n>My syllogism is of the form:\n>A is B.\n>C is A.\n>Therefore C is B.\n\n>This is a logically valid construction.\n\n>Your syllogism, however, is of the form:\n>A is B.\n>C is B.\n>Therefore C is A.\n\n>Therefore yours is a logically invalid construction, \n>and your comments don\'t apply.\n\n>I appeal to Mathew (Mantis) here who wrote the excellent\n>post (now part of the FAQ) on logical argument.\n\n>Jim B.\n\nI am not Mathew (Mantis) but any (successful) first year logic student will see that you are logically correct, the other poster is logically incorrect.\n\n--\n"I know" is nothing more than "I believe" with pretentions.\n',
"From: shmuel@mapsut.einstein.com (Shmuel Einstein)\nSubject: Screen capture -> CYMK converter\nNntp-Posting-Host: mapsut.einstein.com\nOrganization: Shmuel Einstein & Associates, Inc.\nLines: 20\n\nI have a small program to extract a 640x480 image from a vga 16 color screen,\nand store that image in a TIFF file. I need to insert the image into a\nsales brochure, which I then need printed in 4 color. On a mac, I would\nuse Photoshop to separate the image into 5 EPS files, and then pull it into\nquark express, then get it printed to film on a lintronix at a service bureau.\n\nHowever, I don't have a mac, but I do have windows. What would I need to \ndo this type of operation in the windows 3.1 environment? Are there any\nseparation programs available on the net? Is there a good page layout program\nthat I should look into?\n\nThanks in advance.\n\n\n-- \nShmuel Einstein, shmuel@einstein.com\nShmuel Einstein & Associates, Inc.\n9100 Wilshire Blvd, Suite 235 E\nBeverly Hills, CA 90212\n310/273-8971 FAX 310/273-8872\n",
"From: kph2q@onyx.cs.Virginia.EDU (Kenneth Hinckley)\nSubject: VOICE INPUT -- vendor information needed\nReply-To: kph2q@onyx.cs.Virginia.EDU (Kenneth Hinckley)\nOrganization: University of Virginia\nLines: 27\n\n\nHello,\n I am looking to add voice input capability to a user interface I am\ndeveloping on an HP730 (UNIX) workstation. I would greatly appreciate \ninformation anyone would care to offer about voice input systems that are \neasily accessible from the UNIX environment. \n\n The names or adresses of applicable vendors, as well as any \nexperiences you have had with specific systems, would be very helpful.\n\n Please respond via email; I will post a summary if there is \nsufficient interest.\n\n\nThanks,\nKen\n\n\nP.S. I have found several impressive systems for IBM PC's, but I would \nlike to avoid the hassle of purchasing and maintaining a separate PC if \nat all possible.\n\n-------------------------------------------------------------------------------\nKen Hinckley (kph2q@virginia.edu)\nUniversity of Virginia \nNeurosurgical Visualization Laboratory\n-------------------------------------------------------------------------------\n",
"From: noring@netcom.com (Jon Noring)\nSubject: Need Reference: Multiple Personalities Disorders and Allergies\nOrganization: Netcom Online Communications Services (408-241-9760 login: guest)\nLines: 28\n\nI heard third-hand (not the best form of information) that there was recently\npublished results of a study on Multiple-Personality-Disorder Syndrome\npatients revealing some interesting clues that the root cause of allergy may\nhave a psychological trigger or basis. What I heard about this study was that\nin one 'personality', a MPDS patient exhibited no observable or clinical signs\nof inhalant allergy (scratch tests were used, according to what I heard),\nwhile in other personalities they showed obvious allergy symptoms, including\ntesting a full ++++ on scratch tests for particular inhalants.\n\nIf this is true, it is truly fascinating.\n\nBut, I'd like to know if this study was ever done, and if so, what the study\nreally showed, and where the study is published. Any help out there?\n\nJon Noring\n\n-- \n\nCharter Member --->>> INFJ Club.\n\nIf you're dying to know what INFJ means, be brave, e-mail me, I'll send info.\n=============================================================================\n| Jon Noring | noring@netcom.com | |\n| JKN International | IP : 192.100.81.100 | FRED'S GOURMET CHOCOLATE |\n| 1312 Carlton Place | Phone : (510) 294-8153 | CHIPS - World's Best! |\n| Livermore, CA 94550 | V-Mail: (510) 417-4101 | |\n=============================================================================\nWho are you? Read alt.psychology.personality! That's where the action is.\n",
'From: bhjelle@carina.unm.edu ()\nSubject: Re: Fungus "epidemic" in CA?\nOrganization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque\nLines: 26\nDistribution: na\nNNTP-Posting-Host: carina.unm.edu\n\nIn article <19435@pitt.UUCP> geb@cs.pitt.edu (Gordon Banks) writes:\n>>In article steward@cup.portal.com (John Joseph Deltuvia) writes:\n>>\n>>>There was a story a few weeks ago on a network news show about some sort\n>>>of fungus which supposedly attacks the bone structure and is somewhat\n>>>widespread in California. Anybody hear anything about this one?\n>>\n>\n>The only fungus I know of from California is Coccidiomycosis. I\n>hadn\'t heard that it attacked bone. It attacks lung and if you\n>are especially unlucky, the central nervous system. Nothing new\n>about it. It\'s been around for years. THey call it "valley\n>fever", since it is found in the inland valleys, not on the coast.\n\nThere is a mini-epidemic of Coccidiodes that is occurring in,\nI believe, the Owen\'s Valley/ Bishop area east of the Sierras.\nI don\'t believe there has been any great insight into the\nincreased incidence in that area. There is a low-level\nof endemic infection in that region. Many people with\nevidence of past exposure to the organism did not have\nserious disease.\n\nBrian\n>\n\n\n',
'From: dfegan@lescsse.jsc.nasa.gov (Doug Egan)\nSubject: Re: Any graphics packages available for AIX ?\nOrganization: LESC\nLines: 20\n\nIn <1993Apr8.122037.19260@sun1x.res.utc.com> mark@sun1x.res.utc.com (MARK STUCKY) writes:\n\n>In <1pr9qnINNiag@tahko.lpr.carel.fi>, \n> Ari Suutari (ari@tahko.lpr.carel.fi) wrote:\n\n> > Does anybody know if there are any good 2d-graphics packages\n> > available for IBM RS/6000 & AIX ? I\'m looking for something\n> > like DEC\'s GKS or Hewlett-Packards Starbase, both of which\n> > have reasonably good support for different output devices\n> > like plotters, terminals, X etc.\n\n Try graPHIGS from IBM... It is an excellent package! :^)\n\nDoug\n \n--\n Doug Egan "It\'s not what you got -\n Lockheed Engineering and Sciences Co. It\'s what you give." \n Houston, TX -Tesla \n ***** email: egan@blkbox.com ***** \n',
"From: conditt@tsd.arlut.utexas.edu (Paul Conditt)\nSubject: Latest on Branch Davidians\nOrganization: Applied Research Laboratories, University of Texas at Austin\nLines: 28\n\nMost of you will have probably seen the news by the time you read this,\nbut the Branch Davidian compound is no more. This morning about 6:00,\nthe feds punched holes in the compound walls by using a tank. They \nthen started using non-lethal tear gas. Shortly after noon, 2 cult\nmembers were seen setting fire to the compound. So far, about 20-30\npeople have been seen outside the compound. The fate of the other 60 or\n70 people is unknown, neither is the fate of the 17 children that were\ninside. The compound did burn to the ground.\n\nKoresh, who at times has claimed to be the Messiah, but then backed off\nand only claimed to be a prophet, had promised several times to come\nout peacefully if his demands were met. First, he demanded that his\nmessage be broadcast on the radio, which it was, but he didn't come out.\nHe claimed to be waiting for a message from God. Finally, he said that\nGod told him that he needed to decipher the mystery of the 7 seals in\nRevelation, and when he was finished, he'd come out. He finished the\nfirst one, but didn't do any more work that anyone knows of since then.\nThe federal agents did warn him that if they didn't come out, they \nwould be subjected to tear gas.\n\nI think it's really sad that so many people put their faith in a mere\nman, even if he did claim to be the son of God, and/or a prophet. I\nthink it underscores the importance of putting you faith only in\nthings that are eternal and knowing for yourself what the Scriptures\nsay and what they mean, instead of relying on others to do it for you,\neven if those others are learned and mean well.\n\nPaul Conditt\n",
'From: tcsteven@iaserv.b1.ingr.com (Todd Stevens)\nSubject: Rebuilding the Temple (was Re: Anybody out there?)\nOrganization: ingr\nLines: 14\n\nChuck Petch writes:\n\n>Now it appears that nothing stands in the way of rebuilding and resuming\n>sacrifices, as the Scriptures indicate will happen in the last days.\n>Although the Israeli government will give the permission to start, I think\n>it is the hand of God holding the project until He is ready to let it\n>happen. Brothers and sisters, the time is at hand. Our redemption is\n>drawing near. Look up!\n\nHow is a scriptural Levitical priesthood resumed? Are there any Jews who \ncan legitimately prove their Levite bloodline?\n\nTodd Stevens\ntcsteven@iaserv.b1.ingr.com\n',
'From: C599143@mizzou1.missouri.edu (Matthew Q Keeler de la Mancha)\nSubject: Infant Immune Development Question\nNntp-Posting-Host: mizzou1.missouri.edu\nOrganization: University of Missouri\nLines: 10\n\nAs an animal science student, I know that a number of animals transfer\nimmunoglobin to thier young through thier milk. In fact, a calf _must_\nhave a sufficient amount of colostrum (early milk) within 12 hours to\neffectively develop the immune system, since for the first (less than)\n24 hours the intestines are "open" to the IG passage. My question is,\ndoes this apply to human infants to any degree?\n \nThanks for your time responding,\nMatthew Keeler\nc599143@mizzou1.missouri.edu\n',
'From: km@cs.pitt.edu (Ken Mitchum)\nSubject: Re: Menangitis question\nArticle-I.D.: pitt.19427\nReply-To: km@cs.pitt.edu (Ken Mitchum)\nOrganization: Univ. of Pittsburgh Computer Science\nLines: 42\n\nIn article <C4nzn6.Mzx@crdnns.crd.ge.com> brooksby@brigham.NoSubdomain.NoDomain (Glen W Brooksby) writes:\n>This past weekend a friend of mine lost his 13 month old\n>daughter in a matter of hours to a form of menangitis. The\n>person informing me called it \'Nicereal Meningicocis\' (sp?).\n>In retrospect, the disease struck her probably sometime on \n>Friday evening and she passed away about 2:30pm on Saturday.\n>The symptoms seemed to be a rash that started small and\n>then began progressing rapidly. She began turning blue\n>eventually which was the tip-off that this was serious\n>but by that time it was too late (this is all second hand info.).\n>\n>My question is:\n>Is this an unusual form of Menangitis? How is it transmitted?\n>How does it work (ie. how does it kill so quickly)?\n\nThere are many organisms, viral, bacterial, and fungal, which can\ncause meningitits, and the course of these infections varies\nwidely. The causes of bacterial meningitis vary with age: in adults\npneumococcus (the same organism which causes pneumococcal pneumonia)\nis the most common cause, while in children Hemophilus influenzae\nis the most common cause.\n\nWhat you are describing is meningitis from Neisseria meningitidis,\nwhich is the second most common cause of bacterial meningitis in\nboth groups, but with lower incidence in infants. This organism\nis also called the "meningococcus", and is the source of the\ncommon epidemics of meningitis that occur and are popularized in\nthe press. Without prompt treatment (and even WITH it in some cases),\nthe organism typically causes death within a day. \n\nThis organism, feared as it is, is actually grown from the throats\nof many normal adults. It can get to the meninges by different\nways, but blood borne spread is probably the usual case. \n\nRifampin (an oral antibiotic) is often given to family and contacts\nof a case of meningococcal meningitis, by the way.\n\nSorry, but I don\'t have time for a more detailed reply. Meningitis\nis a huge topic, and sci.med can\'t do it justice.\n\n\n-km\n',
'From: cbc5b@virginia.edu (Charles Campbell)\nSubject: Re: Was Jesus Black?\nOrganization: University of Virginia\nLines: 21\n\n\n\tJesus was born a Jew. We have biblical accounts of\nboth his mother\'s ancestry and his father\'s, both tracing back\nto David. It seems reasonable to assume, therefore, that Jesus\nwas Semitic.\n\tAs an interesting aside, Jesus\' being semitic makes him\nneither "white" nor "black," and in some sense underscores the\npoint made earlier that his color was not important, it was his\nmessage, his grace, and his divinity that we should concentrate\non.\n\tFinally, I would direct anyone interested in African\ninvolvement in the church to the account of the conversion of\nthe Ethiopian eunuch in Acts chapter 9 (I think it\'s chapter\n9). This is one of the earliest conversions, and the eunuch,\ntreasurer to the queen of the Ethiopians, was definitely\nAfrican. Because "Ethiopia" at that time indicated a region\njust south of Egypt, many also speculate that this man was not\nonly the first African Christian, but the first black Christian\nas well. \nGod bless,\nCharles Campbell\n',
'From: jbickers@templar.actrix.gen.nz (John Bickers)\nSubject: Re: HELP!!! GRASP\nOrganization: TAP\nLines: 19\n\nQuoted from <1993Apr20.125147.10665@genes.icgeb.trieste.it> by oberto@genes.icgeb.trieste.it (Jacques Oberto):\n\n> file, check in the \'graphics\' directories under *grasp. The problem \n> is that the .clp files you generate cannot be decoded by any of \n> the many pd format converters I have used. Any hint welcome!\n\n The gl2p1.lzh stuff under gfx/show on the Aminet sites includes a\n utility called pic2hl, that is a filter for HamLab that can handle\n the most commonly used kinds of .PIC and .CLP files.\n\n The biggest problem is that the .CLP files don\'t usually contain a\n palette, so you need to convert a .PIC with the right palette\n first (which creates a "ram:picpal" file), and then convert the\n .CLP files.\n\n> Jacques Oberto <oberto@genes.icgeb.trieste.it>\n--\n*** John Bickers, TAP. jbickers@templar.actrix.gen.nz ***\n*** "Radioactivity - It\'s in the air, for you and me" - Kraftwerk ***\n',
'From: healta@saturn.wwc.edu (Tammy R Healy)\nSubject: Cannanite genocide in the Bible\nLines: 6\nOrganization: Walla Walla College\nLines: 6\n\nexcuse me for my ignorance. But I remember reading once that the \nBiblical tribe known as the Philistines still exists...they are the modern \nday Palestinians.\nAnyone out there with more info, please post it!!!\n\nTammy\n',
'From: Nabeel Ahmad Rana <rana@rintintin.colorado.edu>\nSubject: RFD: soc.religion.islam.ahmadiyya moderated\nOrganization: UUNET Communications\nLines: 171\nReply-To: rana@rintintin.colorado.edu\nNNTP-Posting-Host: rodan.uu.net\n\nDear Netters:\n\nA new religious newsgroup "soc.religion.islam.ahmadiyya" was pro-\nposed on Oct 16, 1992. The discussion about this new proposed\nnewsgroup went on in various related groups. The proposal, was\nsupposed to enter a vote during the last week of November 92. Due\nto a false Call For Votes, by some opponent, the voting had to be\ncanceled. I quote here a statement from the moderator of\nnew.announce.newgroups:\n\n\n"The current Call For Votes (CFV) for an Ahmadiyya newsgroup\n is being canceled. A new call for votes will be issued within\n a few weeks, possibly with a new impartial vote taker. Discus-\n sion on the proposal is still open until the new vote is called..."\n -- by Lawrence, Nov 20, 1992.\n\n\nA lot of confusion arose among the netter as to whom to vote.\nTherefore it was decided to give a cool down period, so that all\nconfusions are over. It has been over 4 months of that instant\nand now we are again attempting to create this newsgroup. A fresh\nRFD is hereby being issued. Please! take part in the discussion\nunder the same title heading and in "news.groups" or at least\ncross-post it to "news.groups".\n\n\n****************************************************************\n\n REQUEST FOR DISCUSSION\n\n****************************************************************\n\n\n\nNAME OF PROPOSED NEWSGROUP: \n==========================\n\n soc.religion.islam.ahmadiyya\n\n\nCHARTER: \n=======\n\n A religious newsgroup, which would mainly discuss the be-\nliefs, teachings, philosophy and ideologies of all major reli-\ngions of the world as they exist to foster better religious\nknowledge and understanding among followers of all religions as\nthey share common basis. This newsgroup will be devoted to build\na peaceful mutual understanding of the Ahmadiyya branch of\nIslam, its peacefull beliefs, ideology and philosophy and how it\nis different from other branches of Islam in fostering world\npeace and developing better understanding among religious people.\nIt may also be used to post important religious events within the\nWorld Wide Ahmadiyya Islamic Community in general.\n\n\nPURPOSE OF THE GROUP: \n====================\n\n The following are some of the main purposes this group will\n achieve:\n\n i) To discuss the common beliefs of all major religions as\n they relate to Ahmadiyya Muslim Community.\n\n ii) To discuss the doctrines, origin and teachings of this\n puissant spiritual force on earth.\n\n iii) To examine Islamic teachings and beliefs in general in\n light of the Quran and established Islamic traditions\n of 15 centuries from Ahmadiyya perspective.\n\n iv) To discuss the similarities between Ahmadi Muslims and\n people of other Religions of the world and discuss how\n religious tolerance and respect to other\'s faiths can\n be brought about to eliminate inter-religion rivalries\n and hatred among people of religions. \n\n v) To discuss the origin and teachings of all religions in\n general and Islamic and Ahmadiyya Muslims in particular\n to foster better understanding among Ahmadi Muslims and\n other religious people.\n\n vi) To discuss current world problems and solution to these\n problems as offered by religion.\n\n vii) To exchange important news and views about the Ahmadiyya\n Muslim Community and other Religions.\n\n viii)To add diversity in the religious newsgroups present\n on Usenet.\n\n ix) To discuss why religious persecution is on the rise in\n the world and find solutions to remedy the ever deter-\n iorating situation in the world in general and in the \n Islamic world in particular.\n\n x) To discuss the contributions of founders of all reli-\n gions and their people for humanity, society and world \n peace in general and by the International Ahmadiyya Mus\n -lim Community in particular.\n\n\nTYPE: \n====\n\nThe group will be MODERATED for orderly and free religious dialo-\ngue. The moderation will NOT prevent disagreement or dissent to\nbeliefs, but will mainly be used to prevent derogatory/squalid\nuse of dialect and irrelevant issues. The moderators have been\ndecided through personal e-mail and through a general consensus\namong the proponants by discussion in news.groups. The following\nmoderators have been proposed and agreed upon:\n\nModerator: Nabeel A. Rana (rana@rintintin.colorado.edu) \nCo-Moderator: Dr. Tahir Ijaz (ijaz@ccu.umanitoba.ca)\n\n\n\nA BRIEF DESCRIPTION ABOUT AHMADIYYA/ISLAM:\n=========================================\n\n\n The Ahmadiyya Movement in Islam, an international organi-\nsation, was founder in 1989 in Qadian, India. The founder of this\nsect, Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad (1835-1908), proclaimed to be the\nPromised Reformer of this age as foretold in almost all the major\nreligions of the world today (Islam, Christianity, Judiasm, Hin-\nduism). He claimed to be the long awaited second comming of\nJesus Christ (metaphorically), the Muslim Mahdi, and the Promised\nMessiah. He claimed that the prophecies contained in almost all\nthe great religions of the world about the advent of a messenger\nfrom God have been fulfilled.\n\n The claims Hazrat Ahmad raised storms of hostility and\nextreme oposition from many priestlike people of Muslims, Chris-\ntians, Jews and Hindus of that age. Such opposition is often wit-\nnessed in the history of divine reformers. Even today this sect\nis being persecuted specially in some of the Muslim regimes.\nDispite the opposition and persecution, this sect has won many\nadherents in 130 countries. It has over 10 million followers, who\ncome from a diverse ethnic and cultural background.\n\n The sect is devoted to world peace and in bringing about\na better understanding of religion, and the founders of all reli-\ngions. Its mission is to unite mankind into one Universal broth-\nerhood and develop a better understanding of faith. Ahmadi\nMuslims have always been opposed to all kind of violence and spe-\ncially religious intollerance and fundamentalism.\n\n Among its many philanthropic activities, the sect has es-\ntablished a network of hundreds of schools, hospitals, and clin-\nics in many third world countries. These institutions are staffed\nby volunteer professional and are fully financed by the sect\'s\ninternal resources.\n\n The Ahmadiyya mission is to bring about a universal moral\nreform, establish peace and justice, and to unite mankind under\none universal religion.\n\n\nNEWSGROUP CREATION: \n==================\n\n When the Call For Votes is called, the discussion will\nofficially end. Voting will be held for about three weeks. If\nthe group gets 2/3rd majority AND 100 more "YES/Create" votes\nthan "NO/don\'t create" votes; the group shall be created. Any\nquestions or comments may be included in the discussion or\ndirectly sent to: rana@rintintin.colorado.edu\n',
'From: timmbake@mcl.ucsb.edu (Bake Timmons)\nSubject: Re: Amusing atheists and anarchists\nLines: 117\n\nmccullou@whipple.cs.wisc.edu writes:\n\n>My turn\n>I went back and reread your post. All you did is attack atheism, and\n>say that agnosticism wasn\'t as funny as atheism. Nowhere does that\n>imply that you are agnostic, or weak atheist. As most people who post\n>such inflammatory remarks are theists, it was a reasonable assumption.\n\nSorry, you\'re right. I did not clearly state it.\n\n>>Rule *2: Condescending to the population at large (i.e., theists) will not\n>>win many people to your faith anytime soon. It only ruins your credibility.\n\n>How am I being condescending to the population at large? I am stating\n>something that happened to be true for a long time, I couldn\'t believe\n>that people actually believed in this god idea. It was an alien concept\n>to me. I am not trying to win people to my faith as you put it. I have\n>no faith. Religion was a non issue when I had the attitude above because\n>it never even occurred to me to believe. Atheist by default I guess you\n>could say.\n\nThe most common form of condescending is the rational versus irrational\nattitude. Once one has accepted the _assumption_ that there is no god(s),\nand then consider other faiths to be irrational simply because their\nassumption(s) contradict your assumption, then I would say there\'s a\nlack of consistency here.\n\nNow I know you\'ll get on me about faith. If the _positive_ belief that God\ndoes not exist were a closed, logical argument, why do so many rational\npeople have problems with that "logic"?\n\nBut you, probably like me, seem to be a soft atheist. Sorry for the flamage.\n\n>The line about atheists haveing something up their sleeves is what seemed\n>to imply that. Sorry, been reading too much on the CLIPPER project lately,\n>and the paranoia over there may have seeped in some.\n\n;) What is the CLIPPER project BTW?\n\n>>Rule #4: Don\'t mix apples with oranges. How can you say that the\n>>extermination by the Mongols was worse than Stalin? Khan conquered >people\n>>unsympathetic to his cause. That was atrocious. But Stalin killed >millions of\n>>his own people who loved and worshipped _him_ and his atheist state!! >>How can\n>>anyone be worse than that?\n\n>Many rulers have done similar things in the past, only Stalin did it\n>when there was plenty of documentation to afix the blame on him. The\n>evidence is that some of the early European rulers ruled with an iron\n>fist much like Stalin\'s. You threw in numbers, and I am sick of hearing\n>about Stalin as an example because the example doesn\'t apply. You\n>managed to get me angry with your post because it appeared to attack\n>all forms of atheism.\n\nIt might have appeared to attack atheism in general, but its point was\nthat mass killing happens for all sorts of reasons. People will hate who\nthey will and will wave whatever flag to justify it, be it cross or\nhammer&sickle. The Stalin example _is_ important not only because it\'s\nstill a widely unappreciated era that people want to forget but also\nbecause people really did love him and his ideas, even after all that he\nhad wrought.\n\n>The evidence I am referring to is more a lack of evidence than negative\n>evidence. Say I claim there are no pink crows. I have never seen\n>a pink crow, but that doesn\'t mean it couldn\'t exist. But, this person\n>here claims that there are pink crows, even though he admits he hasn\'t\n>been able to capture one or get a photo, or find one with me etc.\n>In a sense that is evidence to not believe in the existence of pink crows.\n>That is what I am saying when I look at the evidence. I look at the\n>suppossed evidence for a deity, show how it is flawed, and doesn\'t show\n>what theists want it to show, and go on.\n\nFirst, all the pink crows/unicorns/elves arguments in the world will not\nsway most people, for they simply do not accept the analogy. Why?\n\nOne of the big reasons is that many, many people want something\nbeyond this life. You can pretend that they don\'t want this, but I for\none can accept it and even want it myself sometimes.\n\nAnd there is nothing unique in this example of why people want a God.\nCan love as a truth be proven, logically?\n\n>>themselves, namely, a god or gods. So in principle it\'s hard to see how\n>>theists are necessarily arrogant.\n\n>Makes no sense to me. They seem arrogant to make such a claim to me.\n>But my previous refutation still stands, and I believe there may be\n>another one on the net.\n\nJohn the Baptist boasted of Jesus to many people. I find it hard to see\nhow that behavior is arrogant at all. Many Christians I know also boast\nin this way, but I still do not necessarily see it as arrogance. Of course,\nI do know arrogant Christians, doctors, and teachers as well. Technically,\nyou might consider the person who originally made a given claim to be arrogant,\nJesus, for instance.\n\n>Are you talking about all atheism or just strong atheism? If you are\n>talking about weak atheism which I believe in, then I refuse such a claim.\n>Atheism is a lack of belief. I used good ol\' Occam\'s Razor to make the\n>final rejection of a deity, in that, as I see things, even if I\n>present the hypothesises in an equal fasion, I find the theist argument\n>not plausible.\n\nI speak against strong atheism. I also often find that the evidence\nsupporting a faith is very subjective, just as, say, the evidence supporting\nlove as truth is subjective.\n\n>I believe I answered that. I apologize for the (as you stated) incorrect\n>assumption on your theism, but I saw nothing to indicate that you\n>were an agnostic, only that you were just another newbie Christian\n>on the net trying to get some cheap shots in.\n\nNo apology necessary. :)\n--\nBake Timmons, III\n\n-- "...there\'s nothing higher, stronger, more wholesome and more useful in life\nthan some good memory..." -- Alyosha in Brothers Karamazov (Dostoevsky)\n',
'From: chrisb@tafe.sa.edu.au (Chris BELL)\nSubject: Re: Don\'t more innocents die without the death penalty?\nOrganization: South Australian Regional Academic and Research Network\nLines: 19\nDistribution: world\nNNTP-Posting-Host: baarnie.tafe.sa.edu.au\n\n"James F. Tims" <p00168@psilink.com> writes:\n\n>By maintaining classes D and E, even in prison, it seems as if we \n>place more innocent people at a higher risk of an unjust death than \n>we would if the state executed classes D and E with an occasional error.\n\nI would rather be at a higher risk of being killed than actually killed by\n ^^^^ ^^^^^^^^\nmistake. Though I do agree with the concept that the type D and E murderers\nare a massive waste of space and resources I don\'t agree with the concept:\n\n\tkilling is wrong\n\tif you kill we will punish you\n\tour punishment will be to kill you.\n\nSeems to be lacking in consistency.\n\n--\n"I know" is nothing more than "I believe" with pretentions.\n',
'From: tomca@microsoft.com (Tom B. Carey)\nSubject: Re: Science and methodology (was: Homeopathy ... tradition?)\nOrganization: Microsoft Corporation\nLines: 31\n\nsasghm@theseus.unx.sas.com (Gary Merrill) writes:\n>\n>ted@marvin.dgbt.doc.ca (Ted Grusec) writes:\n>|> Gary: By "extra-scientific" I did not mean to imply that hypothesis\n>|> generation was not, in most cases extremely closely tied to the\n>|> state of knowledge within a scientific area. I meant was that there\n>|> was no "scientific logic" involved in the process. It is inductive,\n>|> not deductive. \n>\n>I am further puzzled by the proposed distinction between "scientific\n>logic" and "inductive logic". At this point I don\'t have a clue\n>what you mean by "extra-scientific" -- unless you mean that at *some*\n>times someone seems to come up with an idea that we can\'t trace to\n>prior theories, concepts, knowledge, etc. This is a fairly common\n>observation, but just for grins I\'d like to see some genuine examples.\n\nOK, just for grins:\n- Kekule hypothesized a resonant structure for the aromatic benzene\nring after waking from a dream in which a snake was swallowing his tail.\n- Archimedes formalized the principle of buoyancy while meditating in\nhis bath.\n\nIn neither case was there "no connection to prior theories, concepts, etc."\nas you stipulated above. What there was was an intuitive leap beyond\nthe current way of thinking, to develop ideas which subsequently proved\nto have predictive power (e.g., they stood the test of experimental\nverification).\n\npardon my kibbutzing...\n\nTom\n',
'From: atterlep@vela.acs.oakland.edu (Cardinal Ximenez)\nSubject: Re: Ancient Books\nOrganization: National Association for the Disorganized\nLines: 20\n\ncobb@alexia.lis.uiuc.edu (Mike Cobb) writes:\n\n>If I talk with an atheist and tell him the New Testament is an historically \n>reliable document, what reasons would I give him?\n\n I have found that this isn\'t a very effective argument. Most atheists are\nperfectly willing to acknowledge the existence and ministry of Jesus--but are\nquite capable of rationalizing the miracles and the resurrection into \nmisunderstandings, hoaxes, or simple fabrications. They can always make an\nanalogy with the _Iliad_, a book that tells the story of the historical Trojan\nWar, but also talks about gods and goddesses and their conversations.\n I don\'t think it\'s possible to convince atheists of the validity of \nChristianity through argument. We have to help foster faith and an\nunderstanding of God. I could be wrong--are there any former atheists here who\nwere led to Christianity by argument?\n\nAlan Terlep\t\t\t\t "Incestuous vituperousness"\nOakland University, Rochester, MI\t\t\t\natterlep@vela.acs.oakland.edu\t\t\t\t --Melissa Eggertsen\nRushing in where angels fear to tread.\t\t\n',
'From: km@cs.pitt.edu (Ken Mitchum)\nSubject: Re: Patient-Physician Diplomacy\nArticle-I.D.: pitt.19422\nReply-To: km@cs.pitt.edu (Ken Mitchum)\nOrganization: Univ. of Pittsburgh Computer Science\nLines: 22\n\nIn article <C4Hyou.1Iz@mentor.cc.purdue.edu> hrubin@pop.stat.purdue.edu (Herman Rubin) writes:\n>In article <188@ky3b.UUCP> km@ky3b.pgh.pa.us (Ken Mitchum) writes:\n>\n>>Ditto. Disease is a great leveling experience, however. Some people\n>>are very much afronted to find out that all the money in the world\n>>does not buy one health. Everyone looks the same when they die.\n>\n>If money does not buy one health, why are we talking about paying\n>for medical expenses for those not currently "adequately covered"?\n\nHerman, I would think you of all people would/could distinguish\nbetween "health" and "treatment of disease." All the prevention\nmedicine people preach this all the time. You cannot buy health.\nYou can buy treatment of disease, assuming you are lucky enough\nto have a disease which can be treated. A rich person with a\nterminal disease is a bit out of luck. There is no such thing\nas "adequately covered" and there never will be. \n\nAnd for what it\'s worth, I\'ll be the first to admit that all my\npatients die.\n\n-km\n',
"From: ak949@yfn.ysu.edu (Michael Holloway)\nSubject: Re: ORGAN DONATION AND TRANSPLANTATION FACT SHEET\nOrganization: St. Elizabeth Hospital, Youngstown, OH\nLines: 32\nReply-To: ak949@yfn.ysu.edu (Michael Holloway)\nNNTP-Posting-Host: yfn.ysu.edu\n\n\nIn a previous article, dougb@comm.mot.com (Doug Bank) says:\n\n>In article <1993Apr12.205726.10679@sbcs.sunysb.edu>, mhollowa@ic.sunysb.edu \n>|> Organ donors are healthy people who have died suddenly, usually \n>|> through accident or head injury. They are brain dead. The \n>|> organs are kept alive through mechanical means.\n>\n>OK, so how do you define healthy people?\n>\n>My wife cannot donate blood because she has been to a malarial region\n>in the past three years. In fact, she tried to have her bone marrow\n>typed and they wouldn't even do that! Why?\n>\n>I can't donate blood either because not only have I been to a malarial\n>region, but I have also been diagnosed (and surgically treated) for\n>testicular cancer. The blood bank wont accept blood from me for 10\n>years. \n\nObviously, it wouldn't be of much help to treat one problem by knowingly \nintroducing another. Cancer mestastizes. My imperfect understanding of \nthe facts are that gonadal cancer is particularly dangerous in this regard. \nI haven't done the research on it, but I don't recall ever hearing of a \ncase of cancer being transmitted by a blood transfusion. Probably just a \ncommon sense kind of arbitrary precaution. Transmissable diseases like \nmalaria though are obviously another story.\n\n\n-- \nMichael Holloway\nE-mail: mhollowa@ccmail.sunysb.edu (mail to freenet is forwarded)\nphone: (516)444-3090\n",
'From: I3150101@dbstu1.rz.tu-bs.de (Benedikt Rosenau)\nSubject: Re: Gospel Dating\nOrganization: Technical University Braunschweig, Germany\nLines: 102\n\nIn article <66020@mimsy.umd.edu>\nmangoe@cs.umd.edu (Charley Wingate) writes:\n \n>Assuming you are presenting it accurately, I don\'t see how this argument\n>really leads to any firm conclusion. The material in John (I\'m not sure\n>exactly what is referred to here, but I\'ll take for granted the similarity\n>to the Matt./Luke "Q" material) IS different; hence, one could have almost\n>any relationship between the two, right up to John getting it straight from\n>Jesus\' mouth.\n>\n \nNo, the argument says John has known Q, ie a codified version of the logia,\nand not the original, assuming that there has been one. It has weaknesses,\nof course, like that John might have known the original, yet rather referred\nto Q in his text, or that the logia were given in a codified version in\nthe first place.\n \nThe argument alone does not allow a firm conclusion, but it fits well into\nthe dating usually given for the gospels.\n \n \n>>We are talking date of texts here, not the age of the authors. The usual\n>>explanation for the time order of Mark, Matthew and Luke does not consider\n>>their respective ages. It says Matthew has read the text of Mark, and Luke\n>>that of Matthew (and probably that of Mark).\n>\n>The version of the "usual theory" I have heard has Matthew and Luke\n>independently relying on Mark and "Q". One would think that if Luke relied\n>on Matthew, we wouldn\'t have the grating inconsistencies in the geneologies,\n>for one thing.\n>\n \nNot necessarily, Luke may have trusted the version he knew better than the\nversion given by Matthew. Improving on Matthew would give a motive, for\ninstance.\n \nAs far as I know, the theory that Luke has known Matthew is based on a\nstatistical analysis of the texts.\n \n \n>>As it is assumed that John knew the content of Luke\'s text. The evidence\n>>for that is not overwhelming, admittedly.\n>\n>This is the part that is particularly new to me. If it were possible that\n>you could point me to a reference, I\'d be grateful.\n>\n \nYep, but it will take another day or so to get the source. I hope your German\nis good enough. :-)\n \n \n>>>Unfortunately, I haven\'t got the info at hand. It was (I think) in the late\n>>>\'70s or early \'80s, and it was possibly as old as CE 200.\n>\n>>When they are from about 200, why do they shed doubt on the order on\n>>putting John after the rest of the three?\n>\n>Because it closes up the gap between (supposed) writing and the existing\n>copy quit a bit. The further away from the original, the more copies can be\n>written, and therefore survival becomes more probable.\n>\n \nI still do not see how copies from 200 allow to change the dating of John.\n \n \n>>That John was a disciple is not generally accepted. The style and language\n>>together with the theology are usually used as counterargument.\n>\n>I\'m not really impressed with the "theology" argument. But I\'m really\n>pointing this out as an "if". And as I pointed out earlier, one cannot make\n>these arguments about I Peter; I see no reason not to accept it as an\n>authentic letter.\n>\n \nYes, but an if gives only possibilities and no evidence. The authencity of\nmany letters is still discussed. It looks as if conclusions about them are not\ndrawn because some pet dogmas of the churches would probably fall with them as\nwell.\n \n \n>>One step and one generation removed is bad even in our times. Compare that\n>>to reports of similar events in our century in almost illiterate societies.\n>\n>The best analogy would be reporters talking to the participants, which is\n>not so bad.\n>\n \nWell, rather like some newsletter of a political party reporting from the\nbig meeting. Not necessarily wrong, but certainly bad.\n \n \n>>In other words, one does not know what the original of Mark did look like\n>>and arguments based on Mark are pretty weak.\n>\n>But the statement of divinity is not in that section, and in any case, it\'s\n>agreed that the most important epistles predate Mark.\n \nYes, but the accuracy of their tradition is another problem.\n \nQuestion: Are there letters not from Paul and predating Mark claiming the\ndivinity of Jesus?\n Benedikt\n',
'From: nyeda@cnsvax.uwec.edu (David Nye)\nSubject: Re: Good Grief! (was Re: Candida Albicans: what is it?)\nOrganization: University of Wisconsin Eau Claire\nLines: 29\n\n[reply to aldridge@netcom.com (Jacquelin Aldridge)]\n \n>Medicine is not a totally scientific endevour.\n \nThe acquisition of scientific knowledge is completely scientific. The\napplication of that knowledge in individual cases may be more art than\nscience.\n \n>There are diseases that haven\'t been described yet and the root cause\n>of many diseases now described aren\'t known. (Read a book on\n>gastroenterology sometime if you want to see a lot of them.) After\n>scientific methods have run out then it\'s the patient\'s freedom of\n>choice to try any experimental method they choose. And it\'s well\n>recognized by many doctors that medicine doesn\'t have all the answers.\n \nCertainly we don\'t have all the answers. The question is, what is the\nmost reliable means of acquiring further medical knowledge? The\nscientific method has proven itself to be reliable. The *only* reason\nalternative therapies are shunned by physicians is that their\npractitioners refuse to submit their theories to rigorous scientific\nscrutiny, insisting that "tradition" or anecdotal evidence are\nsufficient. These have been shown many times in the past to be very\nunreliable ways of acquiring reliable knowledge. Crook\'s ideas have\nnever been backed up by scientific evidence. His unwillingness to do\ngood science makes the rest of us doubt the veracity of his contentions.\n \nDavid Nye (nyeda@cnsvax.uwec.edu). Midelfort Clinic, Eau Claire WI\nThis is patently absurd; but whoever wishes to become a philosopher\nmust learn not to be frightened by absurdities. -- Bertrand Russell\n',
'From: geb@cs.pitt.edu (Gordon Banks)\nSubject: Re: Travel outside US (Bangladesh)\nReply-To: geb@cs.pitt.edu (Gordon Banks)\nOrganization: Univ. of Pittsburgh Computer Science\nLines: 17\n\nIn article <1p7ciqINN3th@tamsun.tamu.edu> covingc@ee.tamu.edu (Just George) writes:\n>I will be traveling to Bangaldesh this summer, and am wondering\n>if there are any immunizations I should get before going.\n>\n\nYou can probably get this information by calling your public health\ndepartment in your county (in Pittsburgh, they give the shots free,\nas well). There are bulletins in medical libraries that give\nrecommendations, or you could call the infectious diseases section\nof the medicine department of your local medical school. You also\nwill probably want to talk about Malaria prophylaxis. You will\nneed your doctor to get the prescription. \n-- \n----------------------------------------------------------------------------\nGordon Banks N3JXP | "Skepticism is the chastity of the intellect, and\ngeb@cadre.dsl.pitt.edu | it is shameful to surrender it too soon." \n----------------------------------------------------------------------------\n',
'From: spenser@fudd.jsc.nasa.gov (S. Spenser Aden)\nSubject: Re: diet for Crohn\'s (IBD)\nOrganization: Flight Data and Evaluation Office\nDistribution: usa\nLines: 72\n\nIn article <uabdpo.dpo.uab.edu-220493145727@spam.dom.uab.edu> uabdpo.dpo.uab.edu!gila005 (Stephen Holland) writes:\n>In article <1r6g8fINNe88@ceti.cs.unc.edu>, jge@cs.unc.edu (John Eyles)\n>wrote:\n>> \n>> A friend has what is apparently a fairly minor case of Crohn\'s\n>> disease.\n>> \n>> But she can\'t seem to eat certain foods, such as fresh vegetables,\n>> without discomfort, and of course she wants to avoid a recurrence.\n>> \n>> Her question is: are there any nutritionists who specialize in the\n>> problems of people with Crohn\'s disease ?\n>\n>If she is having problems with fresh vegetables, the guess is that there\n>is some obstruction of the intestine. Without knowing more it is not\n>possible to say whether the obstruction is permanent due to scarring,\n>or temporary due to swelling of inflammed intestine. In general, there are\n>no dietary limitations in patients with Crohn\'s except as they relate\n>to obstruction. There is no evidence that any foods will bring on \n>recurrence of Crohn\'s. \n\nInteresting statements, simply because I have been told otherwise. I\'m\ncertainly not questioning Steve\'s claims, as for one I am not a doctor, and I\nagree that foods don\'t bring on the recurrence of Crohn\'s. But inflammation\ncan be either mildly or DRASTICALLY enhanced due to food.\n\nHaving had one major obstruction resulting in resection (is that a good enough\ncaveat :-), I was told that a *LOW RESIDUE* diet is called for. Basically,\nthe idea is that if there is inflammation of the gut (which may not be\nrealized by the patient), any residue in the system can be caught in the folds\nof inflammation and constantly irritate, thus exacerbating the problem.\nTherefore, anything that doesn\'t digest completely by the point of common\ninflammation should be avoided. With what I\'ve been told is typical Crohn\'s,\nof the terminal ileum, my diet should be low residue, consisting of:\n\nCompletely out - never again - items:\n\to corn (kernel husk doesn\'t digest ... most of us know this :-)\n\to popcorn (same)\n\to dried (dehydrated) fruit and fruit skins\n\to nuts (Very tough when it comes to giving up some fudge :-)\n\nDiscouraged greatly:\n\to raw vegetables (too fibrous)\n\to wheat and raw grain breads\n\to exotic lettuce (iceberg is ok since it\'s apparently mostly water)\n\to greens (turnip, mustard, kale, etc...)\n\to little seeds, like sesame (try getting an Arby\'s without it!)\n\to long grain and wild rice (husky)\n\to beans (you\'ll generate enough gas alone without them!)\n\to BASICALLY anything that requires heavy digestive processing\n\nI was told that the more processed the food the better! (rather ironic in this\nday and age). The whole point is PREVENTATIVE ... you want to give your\nsystem as little chance to inflame as possible. I was told that among the\nNUMEROUS things that were heavily discouraged (I only listed a few), to try\nthe ones I wanted and see how I felt. If it\'s bad, don\'t do it again!\nRemember though that this was while I was in remission. For Veggies: cook the\ndaylights out of them. I prefer steaming ... I think it\'s cooks more\nthoroughly - you\'re mileage may vary.\n\nAs with anything else, CHECK WITH YOUR DOCTOR. Don\'t just take my word. But\nthis is the info I\'ve been given, and it may be a starting point for\ndiscussion. Good luck!\n\n-Spenser\n\n\n-- \nS. Spenser Aden --- Lockheed Engineering and Sciences Co. --- (713) 483-2028\nNASA --- Flight Data and Evaluation Office --- Johnson Space Center, Houston\nspenser@fudd.jsc.nasa.gov (Internet) --- Opinions herein are mine alone.\naden@vf.jsc.nasa.gov (if above bounces) --- "Eschew obfuscation." - unknown\n',
'Subject: Re: Yet more Rushdie [Re: ISLAMIC LAW]\nFrom: kmr4@po.CWRU.edu (Keith M. Ryan)\nOrganization: Case Western Reserve University\nNNTP-Posting-Host: b64635.student.cwru.edu\nLines: 27\n\nIn article <1993Apr6.151843.15240@monu6.cc.monash.edu.au> darice@yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au (Fred Rice) writes:\n>I should clarify what Muslims usually mean when they say "Muslim". In\n>general, anyone who calls themselves a "Muslim" and does not do or \n>outwardly profess\n>something in clear contradiction with the essential teachings of Islam\n>is considered to be a Muslim. Thus, one who might do things contrary to\n>Islam (through ignorance, for example) does not suddenly _not_ become a\n>Muslim. If one knowingly transgresses Islamic teachings and essential\n>principles, though, then one does leave Islam.\n\n\tYou and Mr. bobby really need to sit down and decide what\nexactly Islam *is* before posting here.\n\n\tAccording to \'Zlumber, one is NOT a muslim when one is doing evil. \n[ A muslin can do no evil ] According to him, one who does evil is suffering \nfrom "temporary athiesm."\n\n\tNow, would the members who claim to be "Muslims" get their stories \nstraight????\n\n--\n\n\n "Satan and the Angels do not have freewill. \n They do what god tells them to do. "\n\n S.N. Mozumder (snm6394@ultb.isc.rit.edu) \n',
'From: REXLEX@fnal.fnal.gov\nSubject: Re: Certainty and Arrogance\nOrganization: FNAL/AD/Net\nLines: 70\n\nIn article <Apr.13.00.08.33.1993.28409@athos.rutgers.edu>\nkilroy@gboro.rowan.edu (Dr Nancy\'s Sweetie) writes:\n>\n>There is no way out of the loop.\n\nOh contrer mon captitan! There is a way. Certainly it is not by human reason.\n Certainly it is not by human experience. (and yet it is both!) To paraphrase\nSartre, the particular is absurd unless it has an infinite reference point. It\nis only because of God\'s own revelation that we can be absolute about a thing. \nYour logic comes to fruition in relativism. \n>\n>"At the core of all well-founded belief, lies belief that is unfounded."\n> -- Ludwig Wittgenstein\n\nAh, now it is clear. Ludwig was a desciple of Russell. Ludwig\'s fame is often\nexplained by the fact that he spawned not one but two significant movements in\ncontemporary philosophy. Both revolve around Tractatus Logico-Philosphicus\n(\'21) and Philosophical Investigation (\'53). Many of Witt\'s comments and\nimplicit conclusions suggest ways of going beyond the explicit critique of\nlanguage he offers. According to some of the implicit suggestions of Witt\'s\nthought, ordinary language is an invaluable resource, offering a necessary\nframework for the conduct of daily life. However, though its formal features\nremain the same, its content does not and it is always capable of being\ntranscended as our experience changes and our understanding is deepened, giving\nus a clearer picture of what we are and what we wish to say. On Witt\'s own\naccount, there is a dynamic fluidity of language. It is for this reason that\nany critique of language must move from talking about the limits of language to\ntalking about its boundaries, where a boundary is understood not as a wall but\na threshold.\n vonWrights\'s comment that Witt\'s "sentences have a content that often lies\ndeep beneath the surface of language." On the surface, Witt talks of the\ninsuperable position of ordinary language and the necessity of bringing\nourselves to accept it without question. At the same time, we are faced with\nWitt\'s own creative uses of language and his concern for bringing about changes\nin our traditional modes of understanding. Philosophy, then, through more\nperspicacious speech, seeks to effect this unity rather than assuming that it\nis already functioning. Yes? The most brilliant of scientists are unable to\noffer a foundation for human speech so long as they reject Christianity! In his\nTractatus we have the well nigh perfect exhibition of the nature of the impasse\nof the scientific ideal of exhaustive logical analysis of Reality by man. \nPerfect language does not exist for fallen man, therefore we must get on about\nour buisness of relating Truth via ordinary language.\n\n This is why John\'s Gospel is so dear to most Christians. It is so simple in\nit conveyance of the revealation of God, yet so full of unlieing depth of\nunderstanding. He viewed Christ from the OT concept of "as a man thinketh, so\nhe is." John looked at the outward as only an indicator of what was inside,\nthat is the consciousness of Christ. And so must we. Words are only vehicals\nof truth. He is truth. The scriptures are plain in their expounding that\nthere is a Truth and that it is knowable. THere are absolutes, and they too\nare knowable. However, they are only knowable when He reveals them to the\nindividual. There is, and we shouldn\'t shy from this, a mysticism to\nChristianity. Paul in ROm 8 says there are 3 men in the world. There is the\none who does not have the Spirit and therefore can not know the things of the\nSpirit (the Spirit of Truth) and there is the one who has the Spirit and has\nthe capacity to know of the Truth, but there is the third. THe one who not\nonly has the Spirit, but that the Spirit has him! Who can know the deep things\nof God and reveal them to us other than the Spirit. And it is only the deep\nthings of GOd that are absolute and true.\n There is such a thing as true truth and it is real, it can be experienced\nand it is verifiable. I disagree with Dr Nancy\'s Sweetie\'s conclusion because\nif it is taken to fruition it leads to relativism which leads to dispair. \n\n"I would know the words which He would answer me, and understand what He would\nsay unto me." Job 23ff\n\n--Rex\n\nsuggested, easy reading about epistimology: "He is there and He is not Silent"\n by Francis Schaeffer.\n',
'From: dfield@flute.calpoly.edu (InfoSpunj (Dan Field))\nSubject: Re: Too many MRIs?\nOrganization: California Polytechnic State University, San Luis Obispo\nLines: 19\n\nIn article <1993Apr19.043654.13068@informix.com> proberts@informix.com (Paul Roberts) writes:\n>In article <1993Apr12.165410.4206@kestrel.edu> king@reasoning.com (Dick King) writes:\n>>\n>>I recall reading somewhere, during my youth, in some science popularization\n>>book, that whyle isotope changes don\'t normally affect chemistry, a consumption\n>>of only heavy water would be fatal, and that seeds watered only with heavy\n>>water do not sprout. Does anyone know about this?\n>>\n>\n>I also heard this. I always thought it might make a good eposide of\n>\'Columbo\' for someone to be poisoned with heavy water - it wouldn\'t\n>show up in any chemical test.\n\nThat would be a very expensive toxin indeed!\n-- \n| Daniel R. Field, AKA InfoSpunj | Joe: "Are you late?" |\n| dfield@oboe.calpoly.edu | Dan: "No, but I\'m working on it!" |\n| Biochemistry, Biotechnology | |\n| California Polytechnic State U | | \n',
'From: bolson@carson.u.washington.edu (Edward Bolson)\nSubject: Re: Sphere from 4 points?\nOrganization: University of Washington, Seattle\nLines: 33\nDistribution: world\nNNTP-Posting-Host: carson.u.washington.edu\n\nI plan to post a summary of responses to this as soon as I have working\ncode, which I will also include. The intersection of 3 planes method\nlooks best, but my implementation based on a short article in \nGraphics Gems I doesn\'t work. I may be misinterpreting, of course.\n\nI had avoided the simultaneous solution of the plane equations in favor\nof dot and cross products, but the former may actually be better. In either\ncase a matrix determinant needs to be computed (implicitly in the solution\nof linear equations).\n\nTo get the planes, I was taking the midpoint of the line from, say,\nP1 to P2, and setting the normal as the "normalized" vector from P1 to P2.\nThese just plugged into the formula in Graphics Gems. HOwever, the resulting\ncenter point is only occasionally equidistant from all 4 of my test points\n(for different tests). My matrix/vector math is very rusty, but it looks like\nI need to verify the formula, or use the simultaneous equation solution, which\nwill require bringing in another routine I don\'t have (but should be easy to\nfind).\n\nAnother method is to first find the center of the circle defined by 2 sets\nof 3 points, and intersecting the normals from there. This would also define\nthe circle center. However, small numerical imprecisions would make the\nlines not intersect. Supposedly 3 planes HAVE to intersect in a unique\npoint if they are not parallel.\n\nEd\n\nThanks to all who answered so far.\n-- \nEd Bolson\nUniversity of Washington Cardiovascular Research (206)543-4535\nbolson@u.washington.edu (preferred)\nbolson@max.bitnet bolson@milton.u.washington.edu (if you must)\n',
'From: mart4678@mach1.wlu.ca (Phil Martin u)\nSubject: Re: Newsgroup Split\nX-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]\nOrganization: Wilfrid Laurier University\nLines: 17\n\nChris Herringshaw (tdawson@engin.umich.edu) wrote:\n: Concerning the proposed newsgroup split, I personally am not in favor of\n: doing this. I learn an awful lot about all aspects of graphics by reading\n: this group, from code to hardware to algorithms. I just think making 5\n: different groups out of this is a wate, and will only result in a few posts\n: a week per group. I kind of like the convenience of having one big forum\n: for discussing all aspects of graphics. Anyone else feel this way?\n: Just curious.\n: \n: \n: Daemon\n: \n\nYes. I also like knowing where to go to ask a question without getting\nhell for putting it in the wrong newsgroup.\n\nPhil Martin.\n',
'From: livesey@solntze.wpd.sgi.com (Jon Livesey)\nSubject: Re: An Anecdote about Islam\nOrganization: sgi\nLines: 15\nDistribution: world\nNNTP-Posting-Host: solntze.wpd.sgi.com\n\nIn article <114127@bu.edu>, jaeger@buphy.bu.edu (Gregg Jaeger) writes:\n|> \n|> I don\'t understand the point of this petty sarcasm. It is a basic \n|> principle of Islam that if one is born muslim or one says "I testify\n|> that there is no god but God and Mohammad is a prophet of God" that,\n|> so long as one does not explicitly reject Islam by word then one _must_\n|> be considered muslim by all muslims. So the phenomenon you\'re attempting\n|> to make into a general rule or psychology is a direct odds with basic\n|> Islamic principles. If you want to attack Islam you could do better than\n|> than to argue against something that Islam explicitly contradicts.\n\nThen Mr Mozumder is incorrect when he says that when committing\nbad acts, people temporarily become atheists?\n\njon.\n',
'From: mussack@austin.ibm.com (Christopher Mussack)\nSubject: Re: tuff to be a Christian?\nOrganization: IBM Austin\nLines: 66\n\nPlease realize that I am frequently getting in trouble for\nstraying from orthodoxy, but here is my opinion:\n\nIn article <Apr.17.01.10.58.1993.2246@geneva.rutgers.edu>, mdbs@ms.uky.edu (no name) writes:\n> ... Moreover the Buddha says that we are \n> intrinsically good (as against Christ\'s "we are all sinners").\n\nI never thought of these two ideas being "against" each other.\nPeople might quibble about what "intrinsically" means but the\nreason we are sinners is because we do not behave as good as we\nare. The message of Christ is that each of us are not only good,\nbut great, that we can approach perfection, albeit perhaps through a \ndifferent technique than you claim Buddhism teaches. Because we do\nnot realize our greatness, we sin. Peter had no problem walking \non water until a little doubt crept in.\n\nDoesn\'t David ask in the 8th Psalm "what is man that you [God] \nshould care for him, but you have made him just a little lower \nthan the angels"?\n\nI probably exagerate in my mind what a scrawny little kid David\nwas, just as I probably exagerate what a gigantic monster Goliath\nwas, but David\'s power easily defeated Goliath\'s.\n\nRemember the rich young man who comes up to Jesus and asks what\nhe can do to enter the Kingdom, Jesus says follow the commandments.\nI always picture the smug look on his face as he says he\'s done that\nhis whole life, probably anticipating an "attaboy" from the \nMessiah. Instead Jesus gives him a harder task, sell everything\nand follow Him. Jesus is raising the bar. The desciples say\nhow can anyone do this if it\'s so hard even for rich people.\nJesus says anyone can do it, with God\'s help.\n\nJesus says not only can we avoid killing people, we can avoid\ngetting angry at people. Not only can we avoid committing\nadultery, we can control our own desires. \n\nI realize this was not your main point, but I wonder how other\npeople see this. \n\n> ...\n> \tParting Question:\n> \t\tWould you have become a Christian if you had not\n> been indoctrinated by your parents? You probably never learned about\n> any other religion to make a comparative study. And therefore I claim\n> you are brain washed.\n\n(Please forgive any generalizations I am about to make.)\n\nYour point about how "hard" other religions are is a good one, just \nas your "Parting Question" is a tough question. I think that Muslims\nworship the same God as I do, we can learn from their name "submission".\nHindus and Buddhists and Taoists, etc. claim that "God" is impersonal. \nIs God personal or impersonal? I say yes, but if I think a little\nmore my answer is whichever is greater. I think it is greater \nto be a personal entity, with an individual consciousness, but\nyou\'re right that that might be a cultural bias. If I think more\nI must admit that God\'s personal nature is as far beyond my\nconception as His impersonal nature is beyond the Hindu\'s\nconception. If somehow Jesus could fit into Hindu cosmology\nthen maybe I wouldn\'t have a problem, though that is hard to imagine.\n\nAre there any former (or present) "Eastern Religion" members here \nwho could comment?\n\nChris Mussack\n',
'From: king@ctron.com (John E. King)\nSubject: Re: Eternity of Hell (was Re: Hell)\nOrganization: Cabletron Systems Inc.\nLines: 8\n\ndb7n+@andrew.cmu.edu (D. Andrew Byler) writes:\n\n>And we also know that it is impossible to destroy the Soul.\n\nHmmm. Here\'s food for thought: " ...but rather be in fear of him\nwho can destroy both soul and body in gehenna." Math 10:28\n\nJack\n',
'From: pmoloney@maths.tcd.ie (Paul Moloney)\nSubject: Re: THE POPE IS JEWISH!\nOrganization: Somewhere in the Twentieth Century\nLines: 47\n\nwest@next02cville.wam.umd.edu (Stilgar) writes:\n\n>The pope is jewish.... I guess they\'re right, and I always thought that\n>the thing on his head was just a fancy hat, not a Jewish headpiece (I\n>don\'t remember the name). It\'s all so clear now (clear as mud.)\n\nAs to what that headpiece is....\n\n(by chort@crl.nmsu.edu)\n\nSOURCE: AP NEWSWIRE\n\nThe Vatican, Home Of Genetic Misfits?\n\nMichael A. Gillow, noted geneticist, has revealed some unusual data\nafter working undercover in the Vatican for the past 18 years. "The\nPopehat(tm) is actually an advanced bone spur.", reveals Gillow in his\ngroundshaking report. Gillow, who had secretly studied the innermost\nworkings of the Vatican since returning from Vietnam in a wheel chair,\nfirst approached the scientific community with his theory in the late\n1950\'s.\n\n"The whole hat thing, that was just a cover up. The Vatican didn\'t\nwant the Catholic Community(tm) to realize their leader was hefting\nnearly 8 kilograms of extraneous bone tissue on the top of his\nskull.", notes Gillow in his report. "There are whole laboratories in\nthe Vatican that experiment with tissue transplants and bone marrow\nexperiments. What started as a genetic fluke in the mid 1400\'s is now\nscientifically engineered and bred for. The whole bone transplant idea\nstarted in the mid sixties inspired by doctor Timothy Leary\ntransplanting deer bone cells into small white rats." Gillow is quick\nto point out the assassination attempt on Pope John Paul II and the\ndisappearance of Dr. Leary from the public eye.\n\n"When it becomes time to replace the pope", says Gillow, "The old pope\nand the replacement pope are locked in a padded chamber. They butt\nheads much like male yaks fighting for dominance of the herd. The\nvictor emerges and has earned the privilege of inseminating the choir\nboys."\n\n\nP.\n-- \n moorcockpratchettdenislearydelasoulu2iainmbanksneworderheathersbatmanpjorourke\nclive p a u l m o l o n e y Come, let us retract the foreskin of misconception\njames trinity college dublin and apply the wire brush of enlightenment - GeoffM\n brownbladerunnersugarcubeselectronicblaylockpowersspikeleekatebushhamcornpizza \n',
'From: caralv@caralv.auto-trol.com (Carol Alvin)\nSubject: Re: The arrogance of Christians\nLines: 72\n\nvbv@r2d2.eeap.cwru.edu (Virgilio (Dean) B. Velasco Jr.) writes:\n>In article <Apr.10.05.32.29.1993.14388@athos.rutgers.edu> caralv@caralv.auto-trol.com (Carol Alvin) writes:\n> > ...\n> >\n> >Are all truths also absolutes?\n> >Is all of scripture truths (and therefore absolutes)?\n> >\n> >If the answer to either of these questions is no, then perhaps you can \n> >explain to me how you determine which parts of Scripture are truths, and\n> >which truths are absolutes. \n> \n> The answer to both questions is yes.\n\nPerhaps we have different definitions of absolute then. To me,\nan absolute is something that is constant across time, culture,\nsituations, etc. True in every instance possible. Do you agree\nwith this definition? I think you do:\n\n> Similarly, all truth is absolute. Indeed, a non-absolute truth is a \n> contradiction in terms. When is something absolute? When it is always\n> true. Obviously, if a "truth" is not always "true" then we have a\n> contradiction in terms. \n\nA simple example:\n\nIn the New Testament (sorry I don\'t have a Bible at work, and can\'t\nprovide a reference), women are instructed to be silent and cover\ntheir heads in church. Now, this is scripture. By your definition, \nthis is truth and therefore absolute. \n\nDo women in your church speak? Do they cover their heads? If all \nscripture is absolute truth, it seems to me that women speaking in and \ncoming to church with bare heads should be intolerable to evangelicals. \nYet, clearly, women do speak in evangelical churches and come with bare \nheads. (At least this was the case in the evangelical churches I grew \nup in.)\n\nEvangelicals are clearly not taking this particular part of scripture \nto be absolute truth. (And there are plenty of other examples.)\nCan you reconcile this?\n\n> Many people claim that there are no absolutes in the world. Such a\n> statement is terribly self-contradictory. Let me put it to you this\n> way. If there are no absolutes, shouldn\'t we conclude that the statement,\n> "There are no absolutes" is not absolutely true? Obviously, we have a\n> contradiction here.\n\nI don\'t claim that there are *no* absolutes. I think there are very\nfew, though, and determining absolutes is difficult.\n\n> This is just one of the reasons why Christians defy the world by claiming\n> that there are indeed absolutes in the universe.\n\n> >There is hardly consensus, even in evangelical \n> >Christianity (not to mention the rest of Christianity) regarding \n> >Biblical interpretation.\n> \n> So? People sometimes disagree about what is true. This does not negate \n> the fact, however, that there are still absolutes in the universe. \n\nBut you are claiming that all of Scripture is absolute. How can you\ndetermine absolutes derived from Scripture when you can\'t agree how\nto interpret the Scripture? \n\nIt\'s very difficult to see how you can claim something which is based \non your own *interpretation* is absolute. Do you deny that your own\nbackground, education, prejudices, etc. come into play when you read the \nBible, and determine how to interpret a passsage? Do you deny that \nyou in fact interpret?\n\nCarol Alvin\ncaralv@auto-trol.com\n',
"From: agiacalo@nmsu.edu (Toni Giacalo)\nSubject: need algorithm for reading and displaying bitmap files\nOrganization: New Mexico State University\nLines: 7\nNNTP-Posting-Host: gauss.nmsu.edu\nKeywords: GIF PCX BMP\n\nI'm making a customized paint program in DOS and need an algorithm\nfor reading bitmap files like GIF, PCX, or BMP. Does anyone have\nsuch an algorithm? I've tried copying one out of a book for reading\n.PCX format but it doesn't work. I will take an algorithm for any\nformat that can be created from Windows Paint. \nThanks!\nToni\n",
'From: ingles@engin.umich.edu (Ray Ingles)\nSubject: Re: Concerning God\'s Morality (was: Americans and Evolution)\nOrganization: University of Michigan Engineering, Ann Arbor\nLines: 110\nDistribution: world\nNNTP-Posting-Host: syndicoot.engin.umich.edu\n\nIn article <1993Apr2.155057.808@batman.bmd.trw.com> jbrown@batman.bmd.trw.com writes:\n[why do babies get diseases, etc.]\n>What God did create was life according to a protein code which is\n>mutable and can evolve. Without delving into a deep discussion of\n>creationism vs evolutionism,\n\n Here\'s the (main) problem. The scenario you outline is reasonably \nconsistent, but all the evidence that I am familiar with not only does\nnot support it, but indicates something far different. The Earth, by\nlatest estimates, is about 4.6 billion years old, and has had life for\nabout 3.5 billion of those years. Humans have only been around for (at\nmost) about 200,000 years. But, the fossil evidence inidcates that life\nhas been changing and evolving, and, in fact, disease-ridden, long before\nthere were people. (Yes, there are fossils that show signs of disease...\nmostly bone disorders, of course, but there are some.) Heck, not just\nfossil evidence, but what we\'ve been able to glean from genetic study shows\nthat disease has been around for a long, long time. If human sin was what\nbrought about disease (at least, indirectly, though necessarily) then\nhow could it exist before humans?\n\n> God created the original genetic code\n>perfect and without flaw. And without getting sidetracked into\n>the theological ramifications of the original sin, the main effect\n>of the so-called original sin for this discussion was to remove\n>humanity from God\'s protection since by their choice A&E cut\n>themselves off from intimate fellowship with God. In addition, their\n>sin caused them to come under the dominion of Satan, who then assumed\n>dominion over the earth...\n[deletions]\n>Since humanity was no longer under God\'s protection but under Satan\'s\n>dominion, it was no great feat for Satan to genetically engineer\n>diseases, both bacterial/viral and genetic. Although the forces of\n>natural selection tend to improve the survivability of species, the\n>degeneration of the genetic code tends to more than offset this. \n\n Uh... I know of many evolutionary biologists, who know more about\nbiology than you claim to, who will strongly disagree with this. There\nis no evidence that the human genetic code (or any other) \'started off\'\nin perfect condition. It seems to adapt to its envionment, in a\ncollective sense. I\'m really curious as to what you mean by \'the\ndegeneration of the genetic code\'.\n\n>Human DNA, being more "complex", tends to accumulate errors adversely\n>affecting our well-being and ability to fight off disease, while the \n>simpler DNA of bacteria and viruses tend to become more efficient in \n>causing infection and disease. It is a bad combination.\n\n Umm. Nah, we seem to do a pretty good job of adapting to viruses and\nbacteria, and they to us. Only a very small percentage of microlife is\nharmful to humans... and that small percentage seems to be reasonalby\nconstant in size, but the ranks keep changing. For example, bubonic\nplague used to be a really nasty disease, I\'m sure you\'ll agree. But\nit still pops up from time to time, even today... and doesn\'t do as\nmuch damage. Part of that is because of better sanitation, but even\nwhen people get the disease, the symptoms tend to be less severe than in\nthe past. This seems to be partly because people who were very susceptible\ndied off long ago, and because the really nasty variants \'overgrazed\',\n(forgive the poor terminology, I\'m an engineer, not a doctor! :-> ) and\ndied off for lack of nearby hosts.\n I could be wrong on this, but from what I gather acne is only a few\nhundred years old, and used to be nastier, though no killer. It seems to\nbe getting less nasty w/age...\n\n> Hence\n>we have newborns that suffer from genetic, viral, and bacterial\n>diseases/disorders.\n\n Now, wait a minute. I have a question. Humans were created perfect, right?\nAnd, you admit that we have an inbuilt abiliy to fight off disease. It\nseems unlikely that Satan, who\'s making the diseases, would also gift\nhumans with the means to fight them off. Simpler to make the diseases less\nlethal, if he wants survivors. As far as I can see, our immune systems,\nimperfect though they may (presently?) be, must have been built into us\nby God. I want to be clear on this: are you saying that God was planning\nahead for the time when Satan would be in charge by building an immune\nsystem that was not, at the time of design, necessary? That is, God made\nour immune systems ahead of time, knowing that Adam and Eve would sin and\ntheir descendents would need to fight off diseases?\n\n>This may be more of a mystical/supernatural explanation than you\n>are prepared to accept, but God is not responsible for disease.\n>Even if Satan had nothing to do with the original inception of\n>disease, evolution by random chance would have produced them since\n>humanity forsook God\'s protection.\n\n Here\'s another puzzle. What, exactly, do you mean by \'perfect\' in the\nphrase, \'created... perfect and without flaw\'? To my mind, a \'perfect\'\nsystem would be incapable of degrading over time. A \'perfect\' system\nthat will, without constant intervention, become imperfect is *not* a\nperfect system. At least, IMHO.\n Or is it that God did something like writing a masterpiece novel on a\nbunch of gum wrappers held together with Elmer\'s glue? That is, the\noriginal genetic \'instructions\' were perfect, but were \'written\' in\ninferior materials that had to be carefully tended or would fall apart?\nIf so, why could God not have used better materials?\n Was God *incapable* of creating a system that could maintain itself,\nof did It just choose not to?\n\n[deletions]\n>In summary, newborns are innocent, but God does not cause their suffering.\n\n My main point, as I said, was that there really isn\'t any evidence for\nthe explanation you give. (At least, that I\'m aware of.) But, I couldn\'t\nhelp making a few nitpicks here and there. :->\n\nSincerely,\n\nRay Ingles || The above opinions are probably\n || not those of the University of\ningles@engin.umich.edu || Michigan. Yet.\n',
'From: lady@uhunix.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu (Lee Lady)\nSubject: Re: Science and methodology (was: Homeopathy ... tradition?)\nSummary: Gee, maybe I\'ve misjudged you.\nKeywords: science errors Turpin NLP\nOrganization: University of Hawaii (Mathematics Dept)\nExpires: Mon, 10 May 1993 10:00:00 GMT\nLines: 141\n\n\nIn article <lsu7q7INNia5@saltillo.cs.utexas.edu> turpin@cs.utexas.edu (Russell Turpin) writes:\n>-*----\n>I agree with everything that Lee Lady wrote in her previous post in\n>this thread. \n\nGee! Maybe I\'ve misjudged you, Russell. Anyone who agrees with something \nI say can\'t be all bad. ;-)\n\nSeriously, I\'m not sure whether I misjudged you or not, in one respect. \nI still have a major problem, though, with your insistence that science \nis mainly about avoiding mistakes. And I still disagree with your \ncontention that nobody who doesn\'t use methods deemed "scientific" \ncan possibly know what\'s true and what\'s not. \n\n> [Deleted material which I agree with.] \n>\n>Back to Lee Lady:\n>\n>> These are not the rules according to many who post to sci.med and\n>> sci.psychology. According to these posters "If it\'s not supported by\n>> carefully designed controlled studies then it\'s not science."\n>\n>These posters are making the mistake that I have previously\n>criticized of adhering to a methodological recipe. A "carefully ...\n> .... \n>Rules such as "support the hypothesis by a carefully designed and\n>controlled study" are too narrow to apply to *all* investigation.\n>I think that the requirements for particular reasoning to be\n>convincing depends greatly on the kinds of mistakes that have\n>occurred in past reasoning about the same kinds of things. (To\n>reuse the previous example, we know that conclusions from\n>uncontrolled observations of the treatment of chronic medical\n>problems are notoriously problematic.) \n\nOkay, so let\'s see if we agree on this: FIRST of all, there are degrees \nof certainty. It might be appropriate, for instance, to demand carefully \ncontrolled trials before we accept as absolute scientific truth (to the \nextent that there is any such thing) the effectiveness of a certain \ntreatment. On the other hand, highly favorable clinical experience, even \nif uncontrolled, can be adequate to justify a *preliminary* judgement that\na treatment is useful. This is often the best evidence we can hope for\nfrom investigators who do not have institutional or corporate support.\nIn this case, it makes sense to tentatively treat claims as credible\nbut to reserve final judgement until establishment scientists who are\nqualified and have the necessary resources can do more careful testing.\n\nSECONDLY, it makes sense to be more tolerant in our standards of \nevidence for a pronounced effect than for one that is marginal. \n\n\nI come to this dispute about what science is not only as a\nmathematician but as a veteran of many arguments in sci.psychology (and\noccasionally in sci.med) about NLP (Neurolinguistic Programming). Much\nof the work done to date by NLPers can be better categorized as\ninformal exploration than as careful scientific research. For years\nnow I have been trying to get scientific and clinical psychologists to\njust take a look at it, to read a few of the books and watch some of\nthe videotapes (courtesy of your local university library). Not for\nthe purpose of making a definitive judgement, but simply to look at the\nNLP methodology (especially the approach to eliciting information from\nsubjects) and look for ideas and hypotheses which might be of\nscientific interest. And most especially to be aware of the\n*questions* NLP suggests which might be worthy of scientific\ninvestigation.\n\nOver and over again the response I get in sci.pychology is "If this\nhasn\'t been thoroughly validated by the accepted form of empirical\nresearch then it can\'t be of any interest to us." \n\nTo me, the ultimate reducio ad absurdum of the extreme "There\'ve got to\nbe controlled studies" position is an NLP technique called the Fast\nPhobia/Trauma Cure.\n\nSimple phobias (as opposed to agoraphobia) may not be the world\'s most \nimportant psychological disorder, but the nice thing about them is that \nit doesn\'t take a sophisticated instrument to diagnose them or tell \nwhen someone is cured of one. The NLP phobia cure is a simple \nvisualization which requires less than 15 minutes. (NLPers claim that\nit can also be used to neutralize a traumatic memory, and hence is\nuseful in treating Post-traumatic Stress Syndrome.) It is essentially\na variation on the classic desensitization process used by behavioral\ntherapists. A subject only needs to be taken through the technique once\n(or, in the case of PTSD, once for each traumatic incident). The\nprocess doesn\'t need to be repeated and the subject doesn\'t need to\npractice it over again at home.\n\nNow to me, it seems pretty easy to test the effectiveness of this cure. \n(Especially if, as NLPers claim, the success rate is extremely high.) \nTake someone with a fear of heights (as I used to have). Take them up \nto a balcony on the 20th floor and observe their response. Spend 15 \nminutes to have them do the simple visualization. Send them back up to \nthe balcony and see if things have changed. Check back with them in a \nfew weeks to see if the cure seems to be lasting. (More long term \nfollow-up is certainly desirable, but from a scientific point of view \neven a cure that lasts several weeks has significance. In any case, \nthere are many known cases where the cure has lasted years. To the best \nof my knowledge, there is no known case where the cure has been reversed \nafter holding for a few weeks.) (My own cure, incidentally, was done\nwith a slightly different NLP technique, before I learned of the Fast \nPhobia/Trauma Cure. Ten years later now, I enjoy living on the 17th\nfloor of my building and having a large balcony.) \n\nThe folks over in sci.psychology have a hundred and one excuses not to\nmake this simple test. They claim that only an elaborate outcome study\nwill be satisfactory --- a study of the sort that NLP practitioners, \nmany of whom make a barely marginal living from their practice, can ill \nafford to do. (Most of them are also just plain not interested, because \nthe whole idea seems frivolous. And since they\'re not part of the\nscientific establishment, they have no tangible rewards to gain \nfrom scientific acceptance.) \n\nThe Fast Phobia/Trauma Cure is over ten years old now and the clinical \npsychology establishment is still saying "We don\'t have any way of \nknowing that it\'s effective." \n\nThese academics themselves have the resources to do a study as elaborate \nas anyone could want, of course, but they say "Why should I prove your \ntheory?" and "The burden of proof is on the one making the claim." \nOne academic in sci.psychology said that it would be completely \nunscientific for him to test the phobia cure since it hasn\'t \nbeen described in a scientific journal. (It\'s described in a number of \nbooks and I\'ve posted articles in sci.psychology describing it in as much \ndetail as I\'m capable of.) \n\nActually, at least one fairly careful academic study has been done (with \nfavorable results), but it\'s apparently not acceptable because it\'s a\ndoctoral dissertation and not published in a refereed journal.\n\nTo me, this sort of attitude does not advance science but hinders it. \nThis is the kind of thing I have in mind when I talk about "doctrinnaire" \nattitudes about science. \n\nNow maybe I have been unfair in imputing such attitudes to you, Russell. \nIf so, I apologize. \n \n--\nIn the arguments between behaviorists and cognitivists, psychology seems \nless like a science than a collection of competing religious sects. \n\nlady@uhunix.uhcc.hawaii.edu lady@uhunix.bitnet\n',
'From: ab@nova.cc.purdue.edu (Allen B)\nSubject: Re: Fractals? what good are they?\nOrganization: Purdue University\nLines: 17\n\nIn article <7208@pdxgate.UUCP> idr@rigel.cs.pdx.edu (Ian D Romanick) writes:\n> They talked about another routine that could yield up to 150 to 1\n> compress with no image loss that *I* could notice. The draw back is that it\n> takes a hell of a long time to compress something. I\'ll have to see if I can\n> find the book so that I can give more exact numbers. TTYL.\n\nThat\'s a typical claim, though they say they\'ve improved\ncompression speed considerably. Did you find out anything else\nabout the book? I\'d be interested in looking at it if you could give me\nany pointers.\n\nReportedly, early fractal compression times of 24-100 hours used\nthat marvelous piece of hardware called "grad students" to do the\nwork. Supposedly it\'s been automated since about 1988, but I\'m still\nwaiting to be impressed.\n\nAllen B (Sign me "Cynical")\n',
'From: db7n+@andrew.cmu.edu (D. Andrew Byler)\nSubject: Re: Question about Virgin Mary\nOrganization: Freshman, Civil Engineering, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA\nLines: 22\n\nD. Andrew Kille writes:\n\n>Just an observation- although the bodily assumption has no basis in\n>the Bible, Carl Jung declared it to be one of the most important\n>pronouncements\n>of the church in recent years, in that it implied the inclusion of the \n>feminine into the Godhead.\n\nWhich means he has absolutely no idea about what the Assumption is.\n\nHowever greatly we extoll Mary, it is quite obvious that she is in no\nway God or even part of God or equal to God. The Assumption of our\nBlessed Mother, meant that because of her close identification with the\nredemptive work of Christ, she was Assumed (note that she did not\nASCEND) body and soul into Heaven, and is thus one of the few, along\nwith Elijah, Enoch, Moses (maybe????) who are already perfected in\nHeaven. Obviously, the Virgin Mary is far superior in glorification to\nany of the previously mentioned personages.\n\nJung should stick to Psychology rather than getting into Theology.\n\nAndy Byler\n',
"From: mmatusev@radford.vak12ed.edu (Melissa N. Matusevich)\nSubject: Foreskin Troubles\nOrganization: Virginia's Public Education Network (Radford)\nLines: 3\n\nWhat can be done, short of circumcision, for an adult male\nwhose foreskin will not retract?\n\n",
"From: ger@cv.ruu.nl (Ger Timmens)\nSubject: Re: Postscript drawing prog\nNntp-Posting-Host: triton.cv.ruu.nl\nOrganization: University of Utrecht, 3D Computer Vision Research Group\nLines: 30\n\nIn <0010580B.vma7o9@diablo.UUCP> diablo.UUCP!cboesel (Charles Boesel) writes:\n\n\n>In article <1993Apr19.171704.2147@Informatik.TU-Muenchen.DE> (comp.graphics.gnuplot,comp.graphics), rdd@uts.ipp-garching.mpg.de (Reinhard Drube) writes:\n>>In article <C5ECnn.7qo@mentor.cc.purdue.edu>, nish@cv4.chem.purdue.edu (Nishantha I.) writes:\n>>|> \tCould somebody let me know of a drawing utility that can be\n>>|> used to manipulate postscript files.I am specifically interested in\n>>|> drawing lines, boxes and the sort on Postscript contour plots.\n>>|> \tI have tried xfig and I am impressed by it's features. However\n>>|> it is of no use since I cannot use postscript files as input for the\n>>|> programme.Is there a utility that converts postscript to xfig format?\n>>|> \tAny help would be greatly appreciated.\n>>|> \t\t\t\tNishantha\n>Have you checked out Adobe Illustrator? There are a few Unix versions\n>for it available, depending on your platform. I know of two Unix versions:\n>One for Mach (NeXT) and for Irix (SGI). There may be others, such\n>as for Sun SparcStation, but I don't know for sure.\n\nYou can include postscript epsi files in xfig (encapsulated postscript\ninfo files). You can't actually edit the postscript file, but you're able\nto draw over the postscript file.\n\nThere a eps to epsi converter: eps2epsi (perl program),\n\nSucces,\n-- \nGer Timmens (ger@cv.ruu.nl) 3DCV Research Group, Utrecht, The Netherlands\nTel.: +31 -30 50 67 11; Room: F.01.7.03; Fax.: +31 -30 51 33 99\n Unquestionably, there is progress. The average American now pays out\n twice as much in taxes as he formerly got in wages. --- H. L. Mencken\n",
"From: richard@harlqn.co.uk (Richard Brooksby)\nSubject: Re: Genocide is Caused by Atheism\nOrganization: Harlequin Ltd, Cambridge, UK\nLines: 21\n\nNanci Ann Miller <nm0w+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:\n\n> snm6394@ultb.isc.rit.edu (S.N. Mozumder ) writes:\n> > More horrible deaths resulted from atheism than anything else.\n>\n> There are definitely quite a few horrible deaths as the result of\n> both atheists AND theists. ... Perhaps, since I'm a bit weak on\n> history, somone here would like to give a list of wars caused/led by\n> theists? ...\n\nThis thread seems to be arguing the validity of a religious viewpoint\naccording to some utilitarian principle, i.e. atheism/religion is\nwrong because it causes death. The underlying `moral' is that death\nis `wrong'. This is a rather arbitrary measure of validity.\n\nGet some epistemology.\n---\nrichard@harlequin.com\t\t (Internet)\nrichard@harlequin.co.uk (Internet)\nRPTB1@UK.AC.CAMBRIDGE.PHOENIX (JANET)\nZen Buddhist\n",
"From: weber@sipi.usc.edu (Allan G. Weber)\nSubject: Need help with Mitsubishi P78U image printer\nOrganization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA\nLines: 26\nDistribution: na\nNNTP-Posting-Host: sipi.usc.edu\n\nOur group recently bought a Mitsubishi P78U video printer and I could use some\nhelp with it. We bought this thing because it (1) has a parallel data input in\naddition to the usual video signal inputs and (2) claimed to print 256 gray\nlevel images. However, the manual that came with it only describes how to\nformat the parallel data to print 1 and 4 bit/pixel images. After some initial\nproblems with the parallel interface I now have this thing running from a\nparallel port of an Hewlett-Packard workstation and I can print 1 and 4\nbit/pixel images just fine. I called the Mitsubishi people and asked about the\n256 level claim and they said that was only available when used with the video\nsignal inputs. This was not mentioned in the sales literature. However they\ndid say the P78U can do 6 bit/pixel (64 level) images in parallel mode, but\nthey didn't have any information about how to program it to do so, and they\nwould call Japan, etc.\n\nFrankly, I find it hard to believe that if this thing can do 8 bit/pixel images\nfrom the video source, it can't store 8 bits/pixel in the memory. It's not\nlike memory is that expensive any more. If anybody has any information on\ngetting 6 bit/pixel (or even 8 bit/pixel) images out of this thing, I would\ngreatly appreciate your sending it to me.\n\nThanks.\n\nAllan Weber\nSignal & Image Processing Institute\nUniversity of Southern California\nweber@sipi.usc.edu\n",
'From: I3150101@dbstu1.rz.tu-bs.de (Benedikt Rosenau)\nSubject: Re: Yeah, Right\nOrganization: Technical University Braunschweig, Germany\nLines: 54\n\nIn article <66014@mimsy.umd.edu>\nmangoe@cs.umd.edu (Charley Wingate) writes:\n \n>>And what about that revelation thing, Charley?\n>\n>If you\'re talking about this intellectual engagement of revelation, well,\n>it\'s obviously a risk one takes.\n>\n \nI see, it is not rational, but it is intellectual. Does madness qualify\nas intellectual engagement, too?\n \n \n>>Many people say that the concept of metaphysical and religious knowledge\n>>is contradictive.\n>\n>I\'m not an objectivist, so I\'m not particularly impressed with problems of\n>conceptualization. The problem in this case is at least as bad as that of\n>trying to explain quantum mechanics and relativity in the terms of ordinary\n>experience. One can get some rough understanding, but the language is, from\n>the perspective of ordinary phenomena, inconsistent, and from the\n>perspective of what\'s being described, rather inexact (to be charitable).\n>\n \nExactly why science uses mathematics. QM representation in natural language\nis not supposed to replace the elaborate representation in mathematical\nterminology. Nor is it supposed to be the truth, as opposed to the\nrepresentation of gods or religions in ordinary language. Admittedly,\nnot every religion says so, but a fancy side effect of their inept\nrepresentations are the eternal hassles between religions.\n \nAnd QM allows for making experiments that will lead to results that will\nbe agreed upon as being similar. Show me something similar in religion.\n \n \n>An analogous situation (supposedly) obtains in metaphysics; the problem is\n>that the "better" descriptive language is not available.\n>\n \nWith the effect that the models presented are useless. And one can argue\nthat the other way around, namely that the only reason metaphysics still\nflourish is because it makes no statements that can be verified or falsified -\nshowing that it is bogus.\n \n \n>>And in case it holds reliable information, can you show how you establish\n>>that?\n>\n>This word "reliable" is essentially meaningless in the context-- unless you\n>can show how reliability can be determined.\n \nHaven\'t you read the many posts about what reliability is and how it can\nbe acheived respectively determined?\n Benedikt\n',
"From: channui@austin.ibm.com (Christopher Chan-Nui)\nSubject: Re: Two pointing devices in one COM-port?\nReply-To: channui@austin.ibm.com\nOrganization: IBM Austin\nX-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL9]\nLines: 22\n\nBob Davis (sonny@trantor.harris-atd.com) wrote:\n: In article <C4tKGM.1v6@unix.portal.com>, wil@shell.portal.com (Ville V Walveranta) writes:\n: |> \n: |> Is there any way to connect two pointing devices to one serial\n: |> port? I haven't tried this but I believe they would interfere\n: |> with each other (?) even if only one at a time would be used.\n\n: \tJust get an A-B switch for RS232. Look in Computer Shopper.\n: They are available fairly cheap. They allow switching between two\n: serial devices on a single port.\n\nUnfortunately the poster wants to use an internal and an external modem so a\nswitch isn't going to help them. If you aren't using your com ports for\nanything else, just define them on different com ports. Define your internal\nmodem to be say, com1, and your external modem to be com3. You really\nshouldn't have to worry about interrupt conflicts since you won't be using\nboth modems at the same time :).\n\n---\nChristopher Chan-Nui | Investment in reliability will increase until it\nchannui@austin.ibm.com | exceeds the probable cost of errors, or until someone\n#include <disclaimer.h> | insists on getting some useful work done.\n",
'From: g9134255@wampyr.cc.uow.edu.au (Coronado Emmanuel Abad)\nSubject: Need polygon splitting algo...\nOrganization: University of Wollongong, NSW, Australia.\nLines: 11\nNNTP-Posting-Host: wampyr.cc.uow.edu.au\nKeywords: polygons, splitting, clipping\n\n\nThe idea is to clip one polygon using another polygon (not\nnecessarily rectangular) as a window. My problem then is in\nfinding out all the new vertices of the resulting "subpolygons"\nfrom the first one. Is this simply a matter of extending the\nusual algorithm whereby each of the edges of one polygon is checked\nagainst another polygon??? Is there a simpler way??\n\nComments welcome.\n\nNoel.\n',
"From: JBUDDENBERG@vax.cns.muskingum.edu (Jimmy Buddenberg)\nSubject: Revelations - BABYLON?\nOrganization: Muskingum College\nLines: 34\n\n\nHello all. We are doing a bible study (at my college) on Revelations. We\nhave been doing pretty good as far as getting some sort of reasonable\ninterpretation. We are now on chapters 17 and 18 which talk about the\nwoman on the beast and the fall of Babylon. I believe the beast is the\nAntichrist (some may differ but it seems obvious) and the woman represents\nBabylon which stands for Rome or the Roman Catholic Church. What are some\nviews on this interpretation? Is the falling Babylon in chapter 18 the same\nBabylon in as in chapter 17? The Catholic church?\nHate to step on toes.\nthanks\n\n-------- \nJimmy Buddenberg INTERNET: jbuddenberg@vax.cns.muskingum.edu\nMuskingum College \n\n[Reading this imagery as the Roman Catholic Church was certainly\ncommon in earlier Protestant writers. A lot of us find that frankly\nembarassing now, though some of our readers will certainly advocate\nsuch a position. The problem is that the description makes it look a\nlot like a political entity. It's associated with kings, controls\nworld commerce, is seated on seven mountains (17:9 -- recall that Rome\nis traditionally regarded as built on seven hills). If it's a church,\nthen it's not the current Roman Catholic church, but a church that has\nbeen taken over by the anti-Christ and merged with the state, turning\ninto something rather different than it is now. Presumably in such a\nscenario the true Catholics are among those who are persecuted. Given\nthe overall impression that Satan is pretending to be an angel of\nlight, and the true church is a persecuted remnant, I think the most\nconsistent playing out of the image would be that the anti-Christ\nwould be presiding over a church that claims to be the heir of both\nthe Protestant and Catholic traditions, but that the true spiritual\ndescendants of both Peter and the Reformers are equally being\npersecuted. --clh]\n",
"From: Donald Mackie <Donald_Mackie@med.umich.edu>\nSubject: Re: options before back surgery for protruding disc at L4-L5\nOrganization: UM Anesthesiology\nLines: 33\nDistribution: world\nNNTP-Posting-Host: 141.214.86.38\nX-UserAgent: Nuntius v1.1.1d9\nX-XXDate: Fri, 16 Apr 93 15:37:39 GMT\n\nSubject: options before back surgery for protruding disc at L4-L5\nFrom: Alex Miller, amiller@almaden.ibm.com\nDate: 13 Apr 93 18:30:42 GMT\nIn article <2241@coyote.UUCP> Alex Miller, amiller@almaden.ibm.com\nwrites:\n>After two weeks of limping around with an acute pain in my low back\n>and right leg, my osteopath sent me to get an MRI which revealed\n>a protruding (and extruded) disc at L4-L5. I went to a neurosurgeon\n>who prescribed prednisole (a steroidal anti-inflamitory) and bed\nrest\n>for several days. It's been nearly a week and overall I feel \n>slightly worse - I take darvocet three times a day so I can\n>deal with daily activities like preparing food and help me\n>get to sleep. \n> \n>I'll see the neurosurgeon tomorrow and of course I'll be asking\n>whether or not this rest is helpful or if surgery is the next \n>step. What are my non-surgical options if my goal is to resume\n>full activity, including competitive cycling. I should add this\n>condition is, in my opinion, the result of commulative wear and\n>tear - I've had chronic low-back pain for years - but I managed\n\nYou don't say whether or not you have any symptoms other than pain.\nIf you have numbness, weakness or bladder problems, for example,\nthese would suggest a need for surgery. If pain is your only symptom\nyou might do well to find a reputable, multi-disciplinary pain\nclinic in your area. Chronic low back pain generally doesn't do well\nwith surgery, acute on chronic pain (as only symptom) doesn't fare\nmuch better.\ne correlation between MRI findings and symptoms is controversial.\n\nDon Mackie - his opinions\nUM will disavow...\n",
'From: geb@cs.pitt.edu (Gordon Banks)\nSubject: Re: Mississippi River water and catfish: safe?\nReply-To: geb@cs.pitt.edu (Gordon Banks)\nDistribution: usa\nOrganization: Univ. of Pittsburgh Computer Science\nLines: 18\n\nIn article <1993Apr12.204033.126645@zeus.calpoly.edu> dfield@flute.calpoly.edu (InfoSpunj (Dan Field)) writes:\n>I\'ve been invited to spend a couple weeks this summer rafting down the\n>Mississippi. My journey partners want to live off of river water and\n>catfish along the route. Should I have any concerns about pollution or\n>health risks in doing this?\n\nYou\'d have to purify the river water first. I\'m not sure how practical\nthat is with the Mississippi. You\'d better check with health agencies\nalong the way to see if there are toxic chemicals in the river. If\nit is just microorganisms, those can be filtered or killed, but you\nmay need activated charcoal or other means to purify from chemicals.\nBetter be same than sorry. Obviously, drinking the river without\nprocessing it is likely to make you sick from bacteria and parasites.\n-- \n----------------------------------------------------------------------------\nGordon Banks N3JXP | "Skepticism is the chastity of the intellect, and\ngeb@cadre.dsl.pitt.edu | it is shameful to surrender it too soon." \n----------------------------------------------------------------------------\n',
"From: kuryakin@bcstec.ca.boeing.com (Rick Pavek)\nSubject: VISION-3D site and email unavailable\nOrganization: Boeing\nLines: 21\n\nI used the information provided in the recent resource listings and\ntried to ftp to:\n\nccu1.aukland.ac.nz [130.216.1.5]: ftp/mac/architec - *VISION-3D facet\n\nand received an 'unknown host' message.\n\nmail to Paul D. Bourke (pdbourke@ccu1.aukland.ac.nz) bounces with basically\nthe same problem.\n\nWhere'd he go????\n\nRick\n\n \n\n-- \nRick Pavek | Never ask a droid to outdo its program.\nkuryakin@bcstec.ca.boeing.com | \nSeattle, WA | It wastes your time\n | and annoys the droid. \n",
'From: kmr4@po.CWRU.edu (Keith M. Ryan)\nSubject: Re: <Political Atheists?\nOrganization: Case Western Reserve University\nLines: 29\nNNTP-Posting-Host: b64635.student.cwru.edu\n\nIn article <1pigidINNsot@gap.caltech.edu> keith@cco.caltech.edu (Keith Allan Schneider) writes:\n\n>mathew <mathew@mantis.co.uk> writes:\n>>As for rape, surely there the burden of guilt is solely on the rapist?\n>\n>Not so. If you are thrown into a cage with a tiger and get mauled, do you\n>blame the tiger?\n\n\tA human has greater control over his/her actions, than a \npredominately instictive tiger.\n\n\tA proper analogy would be:\n\n\tIf you are thrown into a cage with a person and get mauled, do you \nblame that person?\n\n\tYes. [ providing that that person was in a responsible frame of \nmind, eg not clinicaly insane, on PCB\'s, etc. ]\n\n---\n\n "One thing that relates is among Navy men that get tatoos that \n say "Mom", because of the love of their mom. It makes for more \n virile men."\n\n Bobby Mozumder ( snm6394@ultb.isc.rit.edu )\n April 4, 1993\n\n The one TRUE Muslim left in the world. \n',
'From: yozzo@watson.ibm.com (Ralph Yozzo)\nSubject: Re: How to Diagnose Lyme... really\nDisclaimer: This posting represents the poster\'s views, not necessarily those of IBM.\nNntp-Posting-Host: king-arthur.watson.ibm.com\nOrganization: IBM T.J. Watson Research Center\nLines: 29\n\nIn article <19688@pitt.UUCP> geb@cs.pitt.edu (Gordon Banks) writes:\n>\n>In article <1993Apr12.201056.20753@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu> mcg2@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (Marc Gabriel) writes:\n>\n>>Now, I\'m not saying that culturing is the best way to diagnose; it\'s very\n>>hard to culture Bb in most cases. The point is that Dr. N has developed a\n>>"feel" for what is and what isn\'t LD. This comes from years of experience.\n>>No serology can match that. Unfortunately, some would call Dr. N a "quack"\n>>and accuse him of trying to make a quick buck.\n>>\n>Why do you think he would be called a quack? The quacks don\'t do cultures.\n>They poo-poo doing more lab tests: "this is Lyme, believe me, I\'ve\n>seen it many times. The lab tests aren\'t accurate. We\'ll treat it\n>now." Also, is Dr. N\'s practice almost exclusively devoted to treating\n>Lyme patients? I don\'t know *any* orthopedic surgeons who fit this\n>pattern. They are usually GPs.\n>-- \n \nAre you arguing that the Lyme lab test is accurate?\nThe books that I\'ve read say that in general the tests\nhave a 50-50 chance of being correct. (The tests\nresult in a large number of both false positives and\nfalse negatives. I am in the latter case.)\n\nWe could get those same odds by "rolling the dice".\n\n-- \n Ralph Yozzo (yozzo@watson.ibm.com) \n From the beautiful and historic New York State Mid-Hudson Valley.\n',
'Subject: Re: Is Morality Constant (was Re: Biblical Rape)\nFrom: kmr4@po.CWRU.edu (Keith M. Ryan)\nOrganization: Case Western Reserve University\nNNTP-Posting-Host: b64635.student.cwru.edu\nLines: 28\n\nIn article <C4w5pv.JxD@darkside.osrhe.uoknor.edu> bil@okcforum.osrhe.edu (Bill Conner) writes:\n\n>There are a couple of things about your post and others in this thread\n>that are a little confusing. An atheist is one for whom all things can\n>be understood as processes of nature - exclusively. There is no need\n>for any recourse to Divnity to describe or explain anything. There is\n>no purpose or direction for any event beyond those required by\n>physics, chemistry, biology, etc.; everything is random, nothing is\n>determnined.\n\n\tThis posts contains too many fallacies to respond too.\n\n\t1) The abolishment of divinity requires the elimination of \nfreewill. \n\n\tYou have not shown this. You have not even attempted to. However,\nthe existance of an Omniscience being does eliminate freewill in mortals.*\n\n\t* Posted over five months ago. No one has been able to refute it, \nnor give any reasonable reasons against it.\n\n--\n\n\n "Satan and the Angels do not have freewill. \n They do what god tells them to do. "\n\n S.N. Mozumder (snm6394@ultb.isc.rit.edu) \n',
"From: candee@brtph5.bnr.ca (Candee Ellis P885)\nSubject: Re: HELP for Kidney Stones ..............\nOrganization: BNR Inc. RTP, NC\nLines: 8\n\nIf you think you have kidney stones or your doctor tells you that you do,\nDEFINITELY follow up on it. My sister was diagnosed with kidney stones\n1 1/2 years ago and given medication to take to dissolve them. After that\nfailed and she continued to be in great pain, they decided she had\nendometriosis. When they did exploratory surgery, they discovered she\nhad a tumor, which turned out to be rhabdomyosarcoma -- a very rare \nand agressive cancer. I realize this is not what happens in the majority\nof cases, but you never know what can happen and shouldn't take chances!\n",
'From: mwhaefne@infonode.ingr.com (Mark W. Haefner)\nSubject: Re: Atheists and Hell\nOrganization: Intergraph Corporation, Huntsville, AL.\nLines: 27\n\nIn article <Apr.20.03.01.40.1993.3769@geneva.rutgers.edu> trajan@cwis.unomaha.edu (Stephen McIntyre) writes:\n>\n>I don\'t have a problem with being condemned to Hell either. The\n> way I see it, if God wants to punish me for being honest in\n> my skepticism (that is, for saying he doesn\'t exist), He\n> certainly wouldn\'t be changing His nature. Besides, I would\n> rather spend an eternity in Hell than be beside God in Heaven\n> knowing even one man would spend his "eternal life" being\n> scorched for his wrongdoings...\n>\n\nI see some irony here. Jesus was willing to go through torture to free\nyou from the definite promise of hell (based on Adam/Eve\'s fall from grace)\nbut rather than allow him to stand in your place, you would give up\nyour redemption to stand with those who do not accept his grace.\nGod would rather have none in hell, which seems to put the burden of \nchoice on us. Of course, this is all fictional anyway since you reject him\nalso.\n\nMy former sociology professor once told us at the beginning\nof our term, "you all start out with an A...what you do with that during\nthe course of this term is up to you". In the beginning...Adam and Eve\nwere given an A. \n\n\n\nMark Haefner\n',
'From: simon@monu6.cc.monash.edu.au\nSubject: Saint Story St. Aloysius Gonzaga\nOrganization: Monash University, Melb., Australia.\nLines: 113\n\nHeres a story of a Saint that people might like to read. I got it from\na The Morning Star, and am posting it with the permission of the\neditor.\n\n\n Saint Aloysius Gonzaga\n\n The Patron of Youth\n\n\n The marquis Gonzaga had high aspirations for his son, the Prince\n Gonzage. He wanted him to become a famous, brave and honoured\n soldier. After all, he must carry on the great family name of\n Gonzaga. Of course, he was to become far more famous, brave and\n honoured than his father could ever have imagined; though not in\n the manner expected.\n\n Saint Aloysius\' mother was a woman who received immense joy from\n praying to God and meditating on the divine mysteries and the\n life of Our Lord. She had little time for the pleasures of this\n life. As Saint Aloysius\tgrew, he began to resemble his mother\n more than his father.\n\n Saint Aloysius had learned numerous expressions from his father\'s\n soldiers, but the moment he discovered that they were vulgar, he\n fainted from shock. This shows his immense hatred of sin (What an\n example for us of the contempt we must have for sin).\n\n About the time of his First Holy Communion (which he received\n from the Archbishop of Milan, Charles Borromeo, whom himself\n became a great Saint), he con-secrated his purity to God and\n asked the Blessed Virgin to protect his innocence for life.\n\n He wanted to share Our Lord\'s suffering to\tshow his reciprocal\n love. He started by denying his passions; he avoided eating the\n finest foods, wearing the best clothes, and would put pieces of\n wood in his bed in order to mortify himself for the love of God.\n While he was in his early teens his father sent him (and his\n younger brother) to the court of the Spanish King, Phillip 11.\n Obediently, he set out to make the best of it. He mixed in well\n with the people of the royal court, for he was handsome, polite,\n intelligent and always had something interesting to say.\n\n\n Not long before this time, the great soldier-saint, Saint\tIgna-\n tius of Loyola, had founded the Society of Jesus (the Jesuits)\n towards which Saint Aloysius\n\n\n\t\t\t\t -12-\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n began to have a yearning. When he finally told his father, the\n marquis flew into a rage and forbade his son to become a priest.\n\n After a short time, his father sent him to the great cities in\n order that he be tempted away from the priesthood, but even\n\n through these trials, Saint Aloysius grew in his desire for the\n religious life and was strengthened in the virtue of purity.\n\n The Marquis\' plans were obviously failing, so he con-fronted his\n son: "Will you or will you not obey me and forget this foolish-\n ness?" "I will not, father," was the in-evitable reply.\t"Then\n leave from my sight and don\'t return until you change your mind!"\n With tears clouding his eyes, the Saint left the room to\tpray:\n "Tell me Lord, what am I to do? Tell me! Tell me!" He knelt down\n to flagellate himself as he had done several times before, but\n this time\the was seen. The onlooker rushed to the marquis. This\n at last brought the proud man to his senses. "The Lord wants him,\n the Lord can have him." He gave his consent for his son to become\n a Jesuit.\n\n After some years (at the end of the sixteenth century), a terri-\n ble epidemic broke out in Rome. All the hospitals were full and\n could house no more, so the Jesuits opened their own. Saint Aloy-\n sius did all he could in the hospitals, particularly to prepare\n the dying for a holy death.\n\n Saint Aloysius himself contracted the plague from\tcarrying and\n nursing the sick. For three months he lay with a burning fever\n and finally, on June 21st, 1591, he gave his soul\tto the Lord\n while gazing at a crucifix.\n\n Let us invoke Saint Aloysius as our patron and imitate him in his\n humility, purity and confidence in prayer.\n\n Saint Aloysius Gonzaga, pray for us.\n\n - Brendan Arthur\n\n\n\n\n\n\n Prayer is as necessary to a person consecrated to the service of\n others as a sword is to a soldier\n\nGod Bless\n\nFrom Simon\nLines: 106\n-- \n/----------------------------------------------------------------|-------\\\n| Simon P. Shields Programmer Viva Cristo Rey !! ----|---- |\n| MONASH UNIVERSITY COLLEGE GIPPSLAND Ph:+61 51 226 357 .JHS. |\n| Switchback Rd. Churchill. Fax:+61 51 226 300 |\\|/| |\n',
'From: nyeda@cnsvax.uwec.edu (David Nye)\nSubject: Re: Krillean Photography\nOrganization: University of Wisconsin Eau Claire\nLines: 21\n\n[reply to todamhyp@charles.unlv.edu (Brian M. Huey)]\n \n>I think that\'s the correct spelling..\n \nKirilian.\n \n>The picture will show energy patterns or spikes around the object\n>photographed, and depending on what type of object it is, the spikes or\n>energy patterns will vary. One might extrapolate here and say that this\n>proves that every object within the universe (as we know it) has its\n>own energy signature.\n \nThere turned out to be a very simple, conventional explanation for the\nphenomenon. I can\'t recall the details, but I believe it had to do with\nthe object between the plates altering the field because of purely\nmechanical properties like capacitance. The "aura" was caused by direct\nexposure of the film from variations in field strength.\n \nDavid Nye (nyeda@cnsvax.uwec.edu). Midelfort Clinic, Eau Claire WI\nThis is patently absurd; but whoever wishes to become a philosopher\nmust learn not to be frightened by absurdities. -- Bertrand Russell\n',
"From: wlm@wisdom.attmail.com (Bill Myers)\nSubject: Re: graphics libraries\nIn-Reply-To: ch41@prism.gatech.EDU's message of 21 Apr 93 12:56:08 GMT\nOrganization: /usr1/lib/news/organization\nLines: 28\n\n\n> Does anyone out there have any experience with Figaro+ form TGS or\n> HOOPS from Ithaca Software? I would appreciate any comments.\n\nYes, I do. A couple of years ago, I did a comparison of the two\nproducts. Some of this may have changed, but here goes.\n\nAs far as a PHIGS+ implementation, Figaro+ is fine. But, its PHIGS!\nPersonally, I hate PHIGS because I find it is too low level. I also\ndislike structure editing, which I find impossible, but enough about\nPHIGS.\n\nI have found HOOPS to be a system that is full-featured and easy to\nuse. They support all of their rendering methods in software when\nthere is no hardware support, their documentation is good, and they\nare easily portable to other systems.\n\nI would be happy to elaborate further if you have more specific\nquestions. \n--\n|------------------------------------------------------|\n ~~~ Here's lookin' at ya.\n ~~_ _~~\n |`O-@'| Bill | wlm@wisdom.attmail.com\n @| > |@ Phone: (216) 831-2880 x2002\n |\\___/|\n |_____|\n|______________________________________________________|\n",
'From: trajan@cwis.unomaha.edu (Stephen McIntyre)\nSubject: Re: Atheist\'s views on Christianity (was: Re: "Accepting Jeesus in your heart...")\nOrganization: University of Nebraska at Omaha\nLines: 66\n\nnorris@athena.mit.edu writes:\n\n> This is certainly a valid objection to religion-as-explanation-of-\n> nature. \n\n> Fortunately for the convenience of us believers, there is a class of\n> questions that can never be reduced away by natural science. For\n> example: why does the universe exist at all? \n\nMust there be a "why" to this? I ask because of what you also\n assume about God-- namely, that He just exists, with no "why"\n to His existence. So the question is reversed, "Why can\'t\n we assume the universe just exists as you assume God to\n "just exist"? Why must there be a "why" to the universe?"\n\n> After all, the time-space\n> world didn\'t have to exist. Why does *anything* exist? And: is it\n> possible for persons (e.g. man) to come into being out of a purely\n> impersonal cosmos? These questions which look at the real mysteries of\n> life -- the creation of the world and of persons -- provide a permanent\n> indicator that the meaning of life in the material world can only be\n> found *outside* that world, in its Source.\n\nIt may be that one day man not only can create life but can also\n create man. Now, I don\'t see this happening in my lifetime,\n nor do I assert it is probable. But the possibility is there,\n given scientists are working hard at "decoding" out "genetic\n code" to perhaps help cure disease of a genetic variation.\n Again, though, must there be "why" or a "divine prupose" to\n man\'s existence?\n\n> When you say that man is *only* an animal, I have to think that you are\n> presenting an unprovable statement -- a dogma, if you will. And one\n> the requires a kind of "faith" too. By taking such a hard line in\n> your atheism, you may have stumbled into a religion of your own.\n\nAs far as we can tell, man falls into the "mammal" catagory. Now,\n if there were something more to the man (say, a soul), then\n we have yet to find evidence of such. But as it is now, man\n is a mammal (babies are born live, mother gives milk, we\'re\n warm-blooded, etc.) as other mammals are and is similar in\n genetic construction to some of them (in particular, primates).\n For more on this check out talk.origins.\n\n> But before you write off all Christianity as phony and shallow, I hope\n> you\'ll do a little research into its history and varieties, perhaps by\n> reading Paul Johnson\'s "A History of Christianity". From your remarks,\n> it seems that you have been exposed to certain types of Christian\n> religion and not others. Even an atheist should have enough faith in\n> Man to know that a movement of 2000 years has to have some depth, and\n> be animated by some enduring values.\n\nWell, then, Buddhism, Confucianism, Taoism, Hinduism, Judaism,\n Zoerasterism, Shintoism, and Islam should fit this bit of logic\n quite nicely... :-) All have depth, all have enduring values,\n thus all must be true...\n\nStephen\n\n _/_/_/_/ _/_/_/_/ _/ _/ * Atheist\n _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ * Libertarian\n _/_/_/_/ _/_/_/_/ _/ _/ _/ * Pro-individuality\n _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ * Pro-responsibility\n_/_/_/_/ _/ _/ _/ _/ Jr. * and all that jazz...\n\n-- \n',
'From: rolfe@dsuvax.dsu.edu (Tim Rolfe)\nSubject: Re: quality of Catholic liturgy\nLines: 56\n\nIn <Apr.10.05.30.16.1993.14313@athos.rutgers.edu>\njemurray@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (John E Murray) writes:\n\n>I would like the opinion of netters on a subject that has been bothering my\n>wife and me lately: liturgy, in particular, Catholic liturgy. In the last few\n>years it seems that there are more and more ad hoc events during Mass. It\'s\n>driving me crazy! The most grace-filled aspect of a liturgical tradition is\n>that what happens is something we _all_ do together, because we all know how \n>to do it. Led by the priest, of course, which makes it a kind of dialogue we \n>present to God. But the best Masses I\'ve been to were participatory prayers.\n\n[ . . . ]\n\nHaving lived through the kicking and screaming in the 60s and 70s as the\nCatholics were invited to participate in the liturgy instead of counting\ntheir rosary beads during Mass, I find this comment interesting. There\nis a _massively_ longer tradition for proclaiming the Passion accounts\nwithout active participation. If you know the Latin, one really\nbeautiful way to hear the Passion is it\'s being chanted by three\ndeacons: the Narrator chants in the middle baritone range, Jesus chants\nin the bass, and others directly quoted are handled by a high tenor.\nThis is actually the basis for the common proclamation of the Passion\nthat John would prefer.\n\nBut there is always a judgement call based on pastoral considerations.\nEach pastor makes his own decisions (it isn\'t a church-wide conspiracy\nagainst participation). The Palm Sunday liturgy, with its initial\nblessing and distribution of the palms and procession, is already\ngetting long before you get to the Passion; some pastors feel that they\nshould not make the people stand through that long narrative. Also, the\norchestrated proclamation with multiple readers and public participation\nin the crowd quotations runs longer than the single-reader proclamation\n--- in churches with multiple Masses for the Sunday, it might be\nnecessary to go with the briefer options just to "get \'em in and get \'em\nout".\n\nEach parish is different. Catholics are no longer canonically tied to\ntheir geographic parishes. It is possible that another Catholic parish\nin the Columbus area (based on the Ohio State address) has a liturgy\ncloser to your preferences. Or talk to some of your fellow\nparishioners and see how common your preferences are --- pastors\ngenerally ARE willing to listen to non-confrontational requests. Though\nyou probably should bring along a paramedic in case he reacts too strongly\nto the shock of people asked for a _longer_ Sunday Mass.\n\nPerhaps the problem is that recent liturgical development hasn\'t follow\nthe continuous evolution model (the accumulation of small changes, no\nsingle one of which is too hard to take) but rather the punctuated\nequilibrium model (things stay the same and we get accustomed to them,\nthen the marked mutation hits). {My apologies if I am mis-remembering\nthe names of the evolutionary theories.}\n-- \n --- Tim Rolfe\n rolfe@dsuvax.dsu.edu\n rolfe@junior.dsu.edu\n RolfeT@columbia.dsu.edu\n',
'From: zeno@phylo.genetics.washington.edu (Sean Lamont)\nSubject: Closed-curve intersection\nArticle-I.D.: shelley.1ra2paINN68s\nOrganization: Abstract Software\nLines: 10\nNNTP-Posting-Host: phylo.genetics.washington.edu\n\nI would like a reference to an algorithm that can detect whether \none closed curve bounded by some number of bezier curves lies completely\nwithin another closed curve bounded by bezier curves.\n\nThanks.\n-- \nSean T. Lamont | Ask me about the WSI-Fonts\nzeno@genetics.washington.edu | Professional collection for NeXT \nlamont@abstractsoft.com |____________________________________\nAbstract Software \n',
"From: Daniel.Prince@f129.n102.z1.calcom.socal.com (Daniel Prince)\nSubject: Placebo effects\nLines: 17\n\nI know that the placebo effect is where a patient feels better or \neven gets better because of his/her belief in the medicine and \nthe doctor administering it. Is there also an anti-placebo \neffect where the patient dislikes/distrusts doctors and medicine \nand therefore doesn't get better or feel better in spite of the \nmedicine?\n\nIs there an effect where the doctor believes so strongly in a \nmedicine that he/she sees improvement where the is none or sees \nmore improvement than there is? If so, what is this effect \ncalled? Is there a reverse of the above effect where the doctor \ndoesn't believe in a medicine and then sees less improvement than \nthere is? What would this effect be called? Have these effects \never been studied? How common are these effects? Thank you in \nadvance for all replies. \n\n... Information is very valuable but dis-information is MUCH more common.\n",
'From: djmst19@unixd2.cis.pitt.edu (David J Madura)\nSubject: Re: Rumours about 3DO ???\nLines: 13\nX-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL3\n\ndave@optimla.aimla.com (Dave Ziedman) writes:\n\n: 3DO is still a concept.\n: The software is what sells and what will determine its\n: success.\n\n\nApparantly you dont keep up on the news. 3DO was shown\nat CES to developers and others at private showings. Over\n300 software licensees currently developing software for it.\n\nI would say that it is a *LOT* more than just a concept.\n\n',
"From: tdawson@llullaillaco.engin.umich.edu (Chris Herringshaw)\nSubject: Re: Sun IPX root window display - background picture\nOrganization: University of Michigan Engineering, Ann Arbor\nLines: 15\nDistribution: world\nNNTP-Posting-Host: llullaillaco.engin.umich.edu\nKeywords: sun ipx background picture\nOriginator: tdawson@llullaillaco.engin.umich.edu\n\n\nI'm not sure if you got the information you were looking for, so I'll\npost it anyway for the general public. To load an image on your root\nwindow add this line to the end of your .xsession file:\n\n xloadimage -onroot -fullscreen <gif_file_name> &\n\nThis is assuming of course you have the xloadimage client, and as\nfor the switches, I think they pretty much explain what is going on.\nIf you leave out the <&>, the terminal locks till you kill it.\n(You already knew that though...)\n\nHope this helps.\n\nDaemon\n",
'From: wquinnan@sdcc13.ucsd.edu (Malcusco)\nSubject: Re: A question that has bee bothering me.\nOrganization: University of California, San Diego\nLines: 56\n\nIn article <Apr.11.01.02.39.1993.17790@athos.rutgers.edu> atterlep@vela.acs.oakland.edu (Cardinal Ximenez) writes:\n\n> Religious people are threatened by science because it has been systematically\n>removing the physical "proofs" of God\'s existence. As time goes on we have to\n>rely more and more on faith and the spiritual world to relate to God becuase\n>science is removing our props. I don\'t think this is a bad thing.\n>\n\tFirst of all, I resent your assumption that you know why I\nam threatened by science, or even that I am threatened at all,\nalthough I admit the latter. The reason I am threatened by Science\nhas nothing to do with my need for proof of my Lord\'s existence--\nGod reveals Himself in many ways, including, to some degree,\nScience.\n\n\tMy problem with Science is that often it allows us to\nassume we know what is best for ourselves. God endowed us\nwith the ability to produce life through sexual relations,\nfor example, but He did not make that availible to everyone.\nDoes that mean that if Science can over-ride God\'s decision\nthrough alterations, that God wills for us to have the power\nto decide who should and should not be able to have \nchildren? Should men be allowed to have babies, if that\nis made possible.\n\n\tPeople have always had the ability to end lives\nunnaturally, and soon may have the ability to bring lives\ninto the world unnaturally. The closest thing to artificially\ncreated life is artificially created death, and as God\nhas reserved judgement about when people should die to\nHimself, I believe we should rely on God\'s wisdom about how\npeople should be brought in to the world.\n\n\tThis is not to say that I reject all forms of\nmedical treatment, however. Treatment that alleviates\npain, or prevents pain from occuring, is perfectly\nacceptable, I believe, as it was acceptable for Jesus\nto cure the sick. However, treatment that merely \nprolongs life for no reason, or makes unnecessary \nalterations to the body for mere aesthetic purposes, \ngo too far. Are we not happy with the beauty God\ngave us?\n\n\tI cannot draw a solid line regarding where I\nwould approve of Scientific study, and where I would not,\nbut I will say this: Before one experiments with the\nuniverse to find out all its secrets, one should ask\nwhy they want this knowledge. Before one alters the body\nthey have been given, they should ask themseles why their\nbody is not satisfactory too them as it is. I cannot\nmake any general rules that will cover all the cases, but\nI will say that each person should pray for guidance\nwhen trying to unravel the mysteries of the universe, and\nshould cease their unravelling if they have reason to \nbelieve their search is displeasing to God.\n\n\t\t\t---Malcusco\n',
"From: u895027@franklin.cc.utas.edu.au (Mark Mackey)\nSubject: Raytracers: which is best?\nOrganization: University of Tasmania, Australia.\nLines: 15\n\nHi all!\n\tI've just recently become seriously hooked on POV, but there are a few\nthing that I want to do that POV won't do (penumbral shadows, dispersion\netc.). I was just wondering: what other shareware/freeware raytracers are\nout there, and what can they do? I've heard of Vivid and Polyray and \nRayshade and so on, but I'd rather no wade through several hundred pages of \nmanual for each trying to work out what their capabilities are. Can anyone\nhelp? A comparison of tracing speed between each program would also be \nmucho useful.\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\tMark.\n\n-------------------------------------------------------------------------------\nMark Mackey | Life is a terminal disease and oxygen is \nmmackey@aqueous.ml.csiro.au | addictive. Are _you_ hooked? \n-------------------------------------------------------------------------------\n",
'From: dsc@gemini.gsfc.nasa.gov (Doug S. Caprette)\nSubject: CS chemical agent\nOrganization: CDP VLBI\nLines: 10\n\n\n\nCan anyone provide information on CS chemical agent--the tear gas used recently\nin WACO. Just what is it chemically, and what are its effects on the body?\n\ndsc@gemini.gsfc.nasa.gov \n | Regards, | Hughes STX | Code 926.9 GSFC |\n | Doug Caprette | Lanham, Maryland | Greenbelt, MD 20771 |\n -------------------------------------------------------------------------------\n"A path is laid one stone at a time" -- The Giant\n',
'From: geigel@seas.gwu.edu (Joseph Geigel)\nSubject: Looking for AUTOCAD .DXF file parser\nOrganization: George Washington University\nLines: 16\n\n\n Hello...\n\n Does anyone know of any C or C++ function libraries in the public domain\n that assist in parsing an AUTOCAD .dxf file? \n\n Please e-mail.\n\n\n Thanks,\n\n-- \n\n -- jogle\n geigel@seas.gwu.edu\n\n',
'From: emery@tc.fluke.COM (John Emery)\nSubject: Re: Can sin "block" our prayers?\nOrganization: John Fluke Mfg. Co., Inc., Everett, WA\nLines: 28\n\nIn article <Apr.12.03.45.11.1993.18872@athos.rutgers.edu> jayne@mmalt.guild.org (Jayne Kulikauskas) writes:\n>\n>This verse also makes me think of the kind of husband who decides what \n>is God\'s will for his family without consulting his wife. God reveals \n>His will to both the husband and the wife. There needs to be some \n>degree of mutuality in decision making. Even those whose understanding \n>of the Bible leads to a belief in an authoritarian headship of the \n>husband need to incorporate this in order to have a functional family. \n>One way to look at it is that God speaks to the wife through the husband \n>and to the husband through the wife.\n>\n>\n>Jayne Kulikauskas/ jayne@mmalt.guild.org\n\nI agree. God makes the husband the head of the house. But he surely\ncan\'t do it alone. He needs the help of his beloved wife whom the\nLord gave him.\n\nAt least that\'s how it is in my house. I thank God for the beautiful\nwoman He has brought into my life. I couldn\'t lead without the help\nof my wonderful wife.\n\n\n-- \nJohn Emery\t\t"I will praise you, O Lord my God, with all my heart;\nemery@tc.fluke.COM I will glorify your name forever. For great is your\n\t\t\t love toward me; you have delivered me from the\n\t\t\t depths of the grave." (Psalm 86:12-13)\n',
'From: kmr4@po.CWRU.edu (Keith M. Ryan)\nSubject: Re: A visit from the Jehovah\'s Witnesses\nOrganization: Case Western Reserve University\nLines: 48\nNNTP-Posting-Host: b64635.student.cwru.edu\n\nIn article <SUOPANKI.93Apr6024902@stekt6.oulu.fi> suopanki@stekt6.oulu.fi (Heikki T. Suopanki) writes:\n>:> God is eternal. [A = B]\n>:> Jesus is God. [C = A]\n>:> Therefore, Jesus is eternal. [C = B]\n>\n>:> This works both logically and mathematically. God is of the set of\n>:> things which are eternal. Jesus is a subset of God. Therefore\n>:> Jesus belongs to the set of things which are eternal.\n>\n>Everything isn\'t always so logical....\n>\n>Mercedes is a car.\n>That girl is Mercedes.\n>Therefore, that girl is a car?\n\n\tThis is not strickly correct. Only by incorrect application of the \nrules of language, does it seem to work.\n\n\tThe Mercedes in the first premis, and the one in the second are NOT \nthe same Mercedes. \n\n\tIn your case, \n\n\tA = B\n\tC = D\n\t\n\tA and D are NOT equal. One is a name of a person, the other the\nname of a object. You can not simply extract a word without taking the \ncontext into account. \n\n\tOf course, your case doesn\'t imply that A = D.\n\n\tIn his case, A does equal D.\n\n\n\tTry again...\n\n---\n\n "One thing that relates is among Navy men that get tatoos that \n say "Mom", because of the love of their mom. It makes for more \n virile men."\n\n Bobby Mozumder ( snm6394@ultb.isc.rit.edu )\n April 4, 1993\n\n The one TRUE Muslim left in the world. \n\n',
"From: darice@yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au (Fred Rice)\nSubject: Re: Ancient islamic rituals\nOrganization: Monash University, Melb., Australia.\nLines: 21\n\nIn <16BA6C947.I3150101@dbstu1.rz.tu-bs.de> I3150101@dbstu1.rz.tu-bs.de (Benedikt Rosenau) writes:\n\n>In article <1993Apr3.081052.11292@monu6.cc.monash.edu.au>\n>darice@yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au (Fred Rice) writes:\n> \n>>There has been some discussion on the pros and cons about sex outside of\n>>marriage.\n>>\n>>I personally think that part of the value of having lasting partnerships\n>>between men and women is that this helps to provide a stable and secure\n>>environment for children to grow up in.\n>(Deletion)\n> \n>As an addition to Chris Faehl's post, what about homosexuals?\n\nWell, from an Islamic viewpoint, homosexuality is not the norm for\nsociety. I cannot really say much about the Islamic viewpoint on homosexuality \nas it is not something I have done much research on.\n\n Fred Rice\n darice@yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au \n",
"From: markus@octavia.anu.edu.au (Markus Buchhorn)\nSubject: HDF readers/viewers\nOrganization: Australian National University, Canberra\nLines: 33\nDistribution: world\nNNTP-Posting-Host: 150.203.5.35\nOriginator: markus@octavia\n\n\n\nG'day all,\n\nCan anybody point me at a utility which will read/convert/crop/whatnot/\ndisplay HDF image files ? I've had a look at the HDF stuff under NCSA \nand it must take an award for odd directory structure, strange storage\napproaches and minimalist documentation :-)\n\nPart of the problem is that I want to look at large (5MB+) HDF files and\ncrop out a section. Ideally I would like a hdftoppm type of utility, from\nwhich I can then use the PBMplus stuff quite merrily. I can convert the cropped\npart into another format for viewing/animation.\n\nOtherwise, can someone please explain how to set up the NCSA Visualisation S/W\nfor HDF (3.2.r5 or 3.3beta) and do the above cropping/etc. This is for\nSuns with SunOS 4.1.2.\n\nAny help GREATLY appreciated. Ta muchly !\n\nCheers,\n\tMarkus\n\n-- \nMarkus Buchhorn, Parallel Computing Research Facility\nemail = markus@octavia.anu.edu.au\nAustralian National University, Canberra, 0200 , Australia.\n[International = +61 6, Australia = 06] [Phone = 2492930, Fax = 2490747]\n-- \nMarkus Buchhorn, Parallel Computing Research Facility\nemail = markus@octavia.anu.edu.au\nAustralian National University, Canberra, 0200 , Australia.\n[International = +61 6, Australia = 06] [Phone = 2492930, Fax = 2490747]\n",
'From: darice@yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au (Fred Rice)\nSubject: Re: Slavery (was Re: Why is sex only allowed in marriage:...)\nOrganization: Monash University, Melb., Australia.\nLines: 208\n\nIn <1993Apr4.200253.21409@ennews.eas.asu.edu> guncer@enuxha.eas.asu.edu (Selim Guncer ) writes:\n\n>You might not like what Bernard Lewis writes about, label him\n>as a Zionist or such to discredit him etc. \n\nYou misrepresent me, Selim. The hard evidence for my statements about\nhis lack of objectivity are presented quite clearly in the book\n"Orientalism" by Edward Said. Edward Said, by the way, is a Christian,\nnot a Muslim.\n\n>I think he is\n>pretty much objective in his treatment in "Race and Slavery in\n>the Middle East", since he clearly distinguishes between\n>slavery under Islam, and the practice of slavery in other countries,\n>like the US prior to the civil war. He also does not conceal\n>that there are verses in the Quran which promote the liberation\n>of slaves. What he doesn\'t, and I don\'t think nobody can,\n>deduce from these verses is that slavery will eventually be\n>abolished in Islamic countries. Now you might, rather conveniently,\n>blame the practice of slavery on Muslims, but the facts are out\n>there. I also fail to see the relevance of the claim of Lewis being\n>a "Zionist" to what I wrote. \n\nRegarding Bernard Lewis:\n\nHim being a Zionist gives him a political motive for his\ngiving misrepresentations and half-truths about Islam.\n\nRead "Orientalism" by Edward Said -- see the evidence for yourself.\n\nIn fact, I may post some of it here (if it isn\'t too long).\n\n>They were encyclopaedic information\n>which anybody can access - that slavery was abolished at certain\n>dates some 1200 years after Muhammed, that this was the cause\n>of tensions in the Ottoman empire between the Arab slave traders\n>and the government etc.. We also have in the ASU library volumes\n>of British documents on slavery where reports and documents\n>concerning slavery all around the world can be found, which I\n>checked some of the incidents Lewis mentions. So I don\'t think\n>ones political stance has anything to do with documentary evidence.\n\nI haven\'t read Lewis\'s article, so I can\'t comment directly upon it, and\nhave only spoken about his writings _in general_ so far, that his\npolitical motives make him a biased writer on Islam. His anti-Islamic\npolemics, as I understand it, are often quite subtle and are often based\non telling half-truths.\n\nAgain, read "Orientalism" by Edward Said. I am _not_ asking you to take\nwhat I say on trust, in fact I am urging you not to do so but to get\nthis book (it is a well-known book) and check the evidence out for\n_yourself_.\n\n>The issue I raised was that slaves WERE USED FOR SEXUAL PURPOSES,\n>when it was claimed that Islam prohibits extra-marital sex.\n>I wrote that the Prophet himself had concubines, I wrote an\n>incident in which the prophet advised on someone who did not\n>want his concubine to get pregnant etc., which is contrary\n>to the notion that "sex is for procreation only". In other\n>words, such claims are baseless in the Quran and the Hadith.\n\nIf slavery is _in reality_ (as opposed to in the practice of some\nMuslims) opposed by Islam, then using slaves for sexual\npurposes is necessarily opposed too.\n\n>I seem to be unsuccesful in getting through to you. Islam is\n>not "advocating" slavery. Slavery was an existing institution in the \n>7th century. It advised on slaves being freed for good\n>deeds etc., which is nothing new. Many cultures saw this as a\n>good thing. What is the problem here? But I can argue rightfully\n>that slaves were discouraged about thinking about their statuses\n>politically - the Quran rewards the good slave, so obey your\n>master and perhaps one day you\'ll be free. But, it is very\n>understandable that I do not communicate with Muslims, since\n>they assume the Quran is from a "God", and I think it is a rule-based\n>system imposed on the society for preservation of the status quo.\n>Slaves are a part of this system, the subordination of women\n>so that their function in society boils down to child-making\n>is a part of this system, etc. \n\nI understand your point of view, Selim -- I think, rather, it is _us_\nwho are not getting through to _you_.\n\nSome of the points you repeat above I have already answered before.\n\nRegarding women, I have made posting after posting on this subject,\nshowing that Islam is not anti-woman, etc. However, have you been\ncompletely ignoring my postings or just missing them? I just reposted a\nvery good one, under the title "Islam and Women", reposted from\nsoc.religion.islam. If this has already disappeared from your site,\nthen please email me telling me so and I will email you a copy of this\nexcellent article. \n\nIMHO, your understanding of the issue of women in Islam is sadly deficient.\n\nRegarding slaves, _my_ posting on slavery -- the second one I made,\nwhich is a repost of an article I wrote early last year -- is based\ncompletely on the Qur\'an and contains numerous Qur\'anic verses and\nhadiths to support its point of view.\n\nOur approaches are different -- you are arguing from a historical\nstandpoint and I am arguing directly from the teachings of the Qur\'an\nand hadiths. Now, just because people say they are Muslims and perform\na particular action, does that automatically mean that their action is\npart of Islam, even if it is opposed by the Qur\'an and Sunnah? No! Of\ncourse not.\n\nLet me give you a concrete example, which might help clarify this for\nyou. The Qur\'an prohibits drinking. Now, if a person says "I am a\nMuslim" and then proceeds to drink a bottle of beer, does this now mean\nthat Islam teaches that people should drink beer? Of course not, and\nonly an idiot would think so.\n\nDo you see my point?\n\n>It is very natural to think that\n>the author/authors of the Quran had no idea that the socio-economic\n>structure they were advocating would experience at least two paradigm\n>shifts in 1400 years in the western cultures - first with the end of \n>the feudal era and the rise of commerce, second with the industrial \n>revolution. Well, rules have changed and the status quo has driven \n>Muslim countries into misery trying to survive in a "heathen" world. \n>Muslim countries have failed economically, they were unable to \n>accumulate any wealth - directly due to the uncomprimising economic\n>rules in the Quran. In fact, the rise of Islam can easily be modeled\n>after the pyramid effect - you do not produce any wealth at home,\n>but increase your wealth by conquering places. \n\nYou are judging Islam here on capitalist terms. Capitalism is an\nideology based largely on the assumption that people want to maximise\ntheir wealth -- this assumption is in opposition to Islamic teachings.\nTo say Islam is bad because it is not capitalist is pretty unthinking --\nIslam does not pretend to be capitalist and does not try to be\ncapitalist. (This does not mean that Islam does not support a\nfree-market -- for it does in general -- but there are other parts of \ncapitalism which are opposed to Islam as I understand it.)\n\n>When this stopped,\n>you (and I) were left bare in the open for emperialists to devour.\n>No capital, no industry, very poor social services - the education\n>level in Muslim countries are the lowest in the world, the health\n>statistics are miserable etc.. \n\nOne can postulate numerous reasons for this. Your theory is that it is\nbecause Islam is not secularist and capitalist, etc. etc.\n\nSelim, I will give you a clear historical example to show you the\nfallacy of your views if you think (as you obviously do) that\nIslam => lack of education and power.\n\nFor a large part of history, the Islamic world was very powerful. For a\nsignificant section of history, the Islamic world was the foremost in\nthe sciences. So to say that Islam is, for example, anti-education is\ncompletely absurd. You try to blame this situation on Islam -- history\nshows that your conclusion is false and that, instead, there must be\nother reasons for this situation.\n\n>You blame Muslims for not following the Quran, but I blame Muslims \n>for following the Quran. \n\nWell, Selim, your viewpoint on women in Islam makes me question the extent\nof your knowledge of Islam. I really think you are not\nknowledgeable enough to be able to judge whether the Muslims are\nfollowing the Qur\'an or not.\n\n>Your idea is baseless from historical\n>facts, it is a poor utopia, \n\nThe Islamic world was at the forefront of the world in science at one\nstage -- yet somehow, in your theory, it is by "following the Qur\'an"\nthat Muslims are backwards in education. Selim, it is _your_ thesis\nthat is anti-historical, for you conveniently overlook this historical\nfact which contradicts your theory. \n\n>while my ideas are derived from social\n>and economic history. \n\nYou have certainly not shown this; you have merely stated it.\nSo far, it seems to me that your view on Islam being anti-education is\nquite contrary to history. That you are so convinced of your views\nmakes me wonder just how objectively you are trying to look at all of\nthis.\n\n>My solution to all Muslims is simple:\n>CUT THE CRAP, \n\nI think, Selim, you should consider taking your own advice.\n\n>GET THE FACTS STRAIGHT \n\nHere too.\n\n>AND WORK HARD TO REVERSE\n>THE EFFECTS OF 1300 YEARS OF IGNORANCE.\n\nSelim, you have such conviction of your viewpoint, yet you demonstrate\nignorance, not only of Islam but also of Islamic history (particularly\nwith respect to Muslims being leaders of science till about 1400 or so I\nthink). Yet you say that your viewpoint is based on history!\n\nSelim, if I remember right, you say in one of your earlier posts that\nyou are an apostate from Islam. I think you should slow down and start\nthinking clearly about the issues, and start _reading_ some of our\npostings about Islam rather than ignoring them as you so obviously\nhave.\n\n Fred Rice\n darice@yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au \n',
'From: liny@sun13.scri.fsu.edu (Nemo)\nSubject: Bates Method for Myopia\nReply-To: lin@ray.met.fsu.edu\nDistribution: na\nOrganization: SCRI, Florida State University\nLines: 22\n\nDoes the Bates method work? I first heard about it in this newsgroup \nseveral years ago, and I have just got hold of a book, "How to improve your\nsight - simple daily drills in relaxation", by Margaret D. Corbett, \n(\'Authorized instructor of the Bates method), published in 1953. It \ntalks about vision improvement by relaxation and exercise. Has there been\nany study on whether this method actually works? If it works, is it by \nactually shortening the previously elongated eyeball, or by increasing \nthe lens\'s ability to flatten itself in order to compensate for the \ntoo-long eyeball?\n\nSince myopia is the result of eyeball elongation, seems to me the most\nlogical approach for correction is to find a way to reverse the process,\ni.e., shorten it somehow (preferably non-surgically). Has there been\nany recent studies on this? Where can I find them? I know RK works by \nchanging the curvature of the cornea to compensate for the shape of \neyeball, but if there is a way to train the muscles to shorten the \neyeball back to its correct length that would be even better (Bates\'s \nidea, right?)\n\nThanks for any information.\n\n\n',
'From: seanna@bnr.ca (Seanna (S.M.) Watson)\nSubject: Re: "Accepting Jeesus in your heart..."\nOrganization: Bell-Northern Research, Ottawa, Canada\nLines: 38\n\n{Dan Johnson asked for evidence that the most effective abuse \nrecovery programs involve meeting people\'s spiritual needs.\n\nI responded:\n In 12-step programs (like Alcoholics Anonymous), one of the steps\n involves acknowleding a "higher power". AA and other 12-step abuse-\n recovery programs are acknowledged as being among the most effective.}\n\nDan Johnson clarified:\n>What I was asking is this:\n>\n>Please show me that the most effective substance-absure recovery\n>programs involve meetinsg peoples\' spiritual needs, rather than\n>merely attempting to fill peoples\' spiritual needs as percieved\n>by the people, A.A, S.R.C. regulars, or snoopy. \n\nYou are asking me to provide objective proof for the existence of\nGod. I never claimed to be able to do this; in fact I do not believe\nthat it is possible to do so. I consider the existence of God to\nbe a premise or assumption that underlies my philosophy of life.\nIt comes down to a matter of faith. If I weren\'t a Christian, I\nwould be an agnostic, but I have sufficient subjective evidence to\njustify and sustain my relationship with God. Again this is a matter\nof premises and assumptions. I assume that there is more to "life, the\nuniverse and everything" than materialism; ie that spirituality exists.\nThis assumption answers the question about why I have apparent spiritual\nneeds. I find this assumption consistent with my subsequent observat-\nions. I then find that God fills these spiritual needs. But I cannot \nobjectively prove the difference between apparent filling of imagined \nspiritual needs and real filling of real spiritual needs. Nor can I\nprove to another person that _they_ have spiritual needs.\n==\nSeanna Watson Bell-Northern Research, | Pray that at the end of living,\n(seanna@bnr.ca) Ottawa, Ontario, Canada | Of philosophies and creeds,\n | God will find his people busy\nOpinion, what opinions? Oh *these* opinions. | Planting trees and sowing seeds.\nNo, they\'re not BNR\'s, they\'re mine. |\nI knew I\'d left them somewhere. | --Fred Kaan\n',
'From: myless@vaxc.cc.monash.edu.au (Myles Strous)\nSubject: J.C.Jensen\'s bitmap code\nOrganization: Computer Centre, Monash University, Australia\nLines: 18\n\nGreetings all.\n\tAccording to a FAQ I read, on 30 July 1992, Joshua C. Jensen posted an \narticle on bitmap manipulation (specifically, scaling and perspective) to the \nnewsgroup rec.games.programmer. (article 7716)\n\tThe article included source code in Turbo Pascal with inline assembly \nlanguage.\n\n\tI have been unable to find an archive for this newsgroup, or a current \nemail address for Joshua C. Jensen.\n\tIf anyone has the above details, or a copy of the code, could they \nplease let me know.\tMany thanks.\n\t\t\t\t\tYours gratefully, etc. Myles.\n\n-- \nMyles Strous\t|\tEmail: myles.strous@lib.monash.edu.au\nraytracing fan\t|\tPhone: +61.51.226536\n"Got the same urgent grasp of reality as a cardboard cut-out. Proud to have him \non the team." Archchancellor Mustrum Ridcully, in Reaper Man by Terry Pratchett\n',
'From: news@cbnewsk.att.com\nSubject: Re: anger\nOrganization: AT&T Bell Labs\nLines: 31\n\n>Paul Conditt writes:\n>>In case you couldn\'t tell, I get *extremely* angry and upset when\n>>I see things like this. Instead of rationalizing our own fears and\n>>phobias, we need to be reaching out to people with AIDS and other\n>>socially unacceptable diseases. Whether they got the disease through\n>>their own actions or not is irrelevant. They still need Jesus...\n\nAaron Bryce Cardenas) writes:\n>The first issue you bring up is your anger. It is "obvious"ly wrong to\n>be angry (Gal 5:19-20) for any reason, especially *extremely* angry\n>which is on par with hatred. Jesus has every reason to be angry at us\n>for putting him on the cross with our sin, yet his prayer was "forgive\n>them Father, they know not what they do." ...\n\nI don\'t know why it is so obvious. We are not speaking of acts of the \nflesh. We are just speaking of emotions. Emotions are not of themselves\nmoral or immoral, good or bad. Emotions just are. The first step is\nnot to label his emotion as good or bad or to numb ourselves so that\nwe hide our true feelings, it is to accept ourselves as we are, as God\naccepts us. It seems that Paul\'s anger he has accepted and channeled\nit to a plea to all of us to refrain from passing judgement on those\nafflicted with a disease and to reach out to others. Give in? Calling\nhis arguments foolish, belittling them to only quarrels, avoiding action\nbecause of fear to give others a bad feeling, he\'s not forgiving?\n\nRe-think it, Aaron. Don\'t be quick to judge. He has forgiven those with\nAIDS, he has dealt with and taken responsibility for his feelings and made\nappropriate choices for action on such feelings. He has not given in to\nhis anger.\n\nJoe Moore\n',
'From: reedr@cgsvax.claremont.edu\nSubject: Re: DID HE REALLY RISE???\nOrganization: The Claremont Graduate School\nLines: 29\n\nIn article <Apr.9.01.11.16.1993.16937@athos.rutgers.edu>, emery@tc.fluke.COM (John Emery) writes:\n> The one single historic event that has had the biggest impact on the\n> world over the centuries is the resurrection of Jesus. At the same\n> time, it is one of the most hotly contested topics....\n> \n> Did Jesus Christ really rise from the dead? Since the eyewitnesses\n> are no longer living, we have only their written accounts. ...\n> ... Because of the magnitude of significance\n> involved here, either the resurrection is the greatest event in the\n> history of man or the greatest deception played on man.\n> [massive amounts of data deleted]\n\nJohn, \n\nWhile I will not take the time to rebut you point by point, I will suggest\nthree current works which I think will be helpful in your quest to answer\nthis question. John Dominic Crossan (Professor of Religion at De Paul Univ)-\n_The Cross That Spoke_ Harper and Row Pub. 1988, Also his latest work \n_The Historical Jesus - The Life of A Mediterranean Jewish Peasant_ Harper\nand Row Pub. 1991, Also two works of Burton Mack (Professor of New Testament\nat the Claremont Graduate School) _A Myth of Innocence_ Fortress Press 1988,\nAnd his latest book _The Lost Gospel: The Book of Q and Christian Origins_\nHarper and Row, 1992. You might start with Mack\'s book on Q and then \nexamine the others afterward. However I think that once you do that you will\nsee that your "evidence" is not as sturdy as you\'d like. Most of the tired\narguements you stated, assume eyewitness accounts, such is not the case. But\nAnyway look at Mack and Crossan and then get back to us.\n\nrandy\n',
'From: dewey@risc.sps.mot.com (Dewey Henize)\nSubject: Re: The Inimitable Rushdie\nOrganization: Motorola, Inc. -- Austin,TX\nLines: 43\nNNTP-Posting-Host: rtfm.sps.mot.com\n\n\nIs it just me, or has this part gotten beyond useful?\n\nGregg is not, as I understand his posts, giving any support to the bounty\non Rushdie\'s life. If that\'s correct, end of one point...\n\nGregg is using the concept of legal in a way most Westerners don\'t accept.\nHis comments about Islamic Law I think make a great deal of sense to him,\nand are even making a _little_ sense to me now - if a person is a member\nof a group (religion or whatever) they bind themselves to follow the ways\nof the group within the bounds of what the group requires as a minimum.\nThe big bone of contention here that I\'m picking up is that in the West\nwe have secular governments that maintain, more or less, a level of control\nand of requirements outside the requirements of optional groups. I think\nthe majority of us reading this thread are in tune (note - I didn\'t say\n"in agreement") with the idea that you are finally responsible to the\nsecular government, and within that to the group or groups a person may\nhave chosen.\n\nWith that in mind, it not possible under secular law ("legally" as most\npeople would define the term) to hold a person to a particular group once\nthey decide to separate from it. Only if the secular authorities agree\nthat there is a requirement of some sort (contractual, etc) is there\nany secular _enforcement_ allowed by a group to a group member or past\ngroup member.\n\nA religion can, and often does, believe in and require additional duties\nof a group member. And it can enforce the fulfillment of those duties\nin many ways - ostracism is common for example. But the limit comes when\nthe enforcement would impose unwanted and/or unaccepted onus on a person\n_in conflict with secular law_.\n\nThis is the difference. In a theocracy, the requirements of the secular\nauthorities are, by definition, congruent with the religious authorities.\nOutside a theocracy, this is not _necessarily_ true. Religious requirements\n_may_ coincide or may not. Similiarly, religious consequences _may_ or\nmay not coincide with secular consequences (if any).\n\nRegards,\n\nDew\n-- \nDewey Henize Sys/Net admin RISC hardware (512) 891-8637 pager 928-7447 x 9637\n',
"From: turpin@cs.utexas.edu (Russell Turpin)\nSubject: Re: H E L P M E ---> desperate with some VD\nOrganization: CS Dept, University of Texas at Austin\nLines: 17\nNNTP-Posting-Host: saltillo.cs.utexas.edu\nSummary: Here's help.\n\n-*----\nIn article <1993Apr17.115716.19963@debbie.cc.nctu.edu.tw> mjliu@csie.nctu.edu.tw (Ming-zhou Liu) writes:\n> I have bad luck and got a VD called <Granuloma ingunale>, which involves\n> the growth of granules in the groin. I found out about it by checking \n> medicine books and I found the prescriptions. ...\n\nMing-zhou Liu's main problem is that he has an incompetent\nphysician -- himself. This physician has diagnosed a problem,\neven though he probably has never seen the diagnosed disease\nbefore and has no idea of what kinds of problems can present\nsimilar symptoms. This physician now wants to treat his first\ncase of this disease without any help from the medical community.\n\nThe best thing Ming-zhou Liu could do is fire his current\nphysician and seek out a better one.\n\nRussell\n",
'From: IMAGING.CLUB@OFFICE.WANG.COM ("Imaging Club")\nSubject: Re: WANTED: Info on Image Databases\nOrganization: Mail to News Gateway at Wang Labs\nLines: 14\n\nPadmini Srivathsa in Wisconsin writes:\n\n>I would like references to any introductory material on image\n>databases.\n\nI\'d be happy to US (international) Snail mail technical information on\nimaging databases to anyone who needs it, if you can provide me with your\naddress for hard copy (not Email). We\'re focusing mostly on Open PACE,\nOracle, Ingres, Adabas, Sybase, and Gupta, regarding our imaging\ndatabases installed. (We have over 1,000 installed and in production now;\nmost of the new ones going in are on Novell LANs, the RS/6000, and now HP\nUnix workstations.) We work with Visual Basic too.\n\nMichael.Willett@OFFICE.Wang.com\n',
"From: jfare@53iss6.Waterloo.NCR.COM (Jim Fare)\nSubject: Re: Oily skin - problem?\nReply-To: jfare@53iss6.Waterloo.NCR.COM (Jim Fare)\nDistribution: world\nOrganization: Imaging Systems Division, NCR Corp, Waterloo, Ont., CANADA\nLines: 15\n\nIn article <1993Apr5.044140.1@vaxc.stevens-tech.edu> u92_hwong@vaxc.stevens-tech.edu writes:\n>\tI have a very oily skin. My problem is when I wash my face, it becomes\n>oily in half an hour. Especially in the nose region. Is this an illness? How\n>can I prevent it from occuring in such short time? Is there a cleanser out\n>there that will do a better job -- that is after cleaning, my face won't become\n>oily in such a short time.\n\nI don't think that's a problem. My face is quite oily too. I had a moderate\nacne problem for many years. I then found that if I vigorously scrub my face\nwith a nail brush and soap (Irish Spring) twice a day the acne was not a \nproblem. I can still leave a pretty health nose print on a mirror after 45 min\n(don't ask ;->) but acne is not a real problem anymore. \n\n [J.F.]\n\n",
'From: jhpb@sarto.budd-lake.nj.us (Joseph H. Buehler)\nSubject: Re: SSPX schism ?\nOrganization: none\nLines: 138\n\nIn article <Apr.20.03.03.06.1993.3836@geneva.rutgers.edu> shellgate!llo@uu4.psi.com (Larry L. Overacker) writes:\n\n You ask where we are. I would echo that question. I\'m not trying to be\n contentious. But assuming that the Pope has universal jurisdiction\n and authority, what authority do you rely upon for your decisions?\n What prevents me from choosing ANY doctrine I like and saying that\n Papal disagreement is an error that will be resolved in time?\n This is especially true, since Councils of Bishops have basically\n stood by the Pope.\n\nThe ultimate question is the traditional theology of the Church. This\nis the *only* thing that it is possible to resist a Pope for: his\ndeparture from the traditional doctrine of the Church. If commands\nfrom *any* authority conflict with Tradition, the commands must be\ndisobeyed.\n\nMy own view on this is that this conflict could only happen in a major\nway. God would never allow a hair-splitting situation to develop; it\nwould be too complex for people to figure out. I don\'t view the\npresent situation in the Church as anything extremely complicated.\nRun through a list of what has happened in the last 30 years in the\nCatholic Church, and any impartial observer will be aghast.\n\n It appears that much of what lies at the heart of this matter is\n disagreements over what is tradition and Tradition, and also over\n authority and discipline. \n\nThe problems stem from a general widespread ignorance of the Catholic\nFaith, in my opinion. Most Catholics know about zilch about the\nCatholic Faith; this leaves them wide open for destruction by erring\nbishops. It\'s basically the Reformation part II.\n\nThere is not even a question in my mind that in some respects the\nshards of the Catholic Church are currently being trampled upon by the\nCatholic hierarchy. I could go on listing shocking things for an\nhour, probably.\n\nTake the situation in Campos, Brazil, for example. I\'m reading a book\non what happened there after Vatican Council II. The bishop, Antonio\nde Castro-Mayer, never introduced all the changes that followed in the\nwake of Vatican II. He kept the traditional Mass, the same old\ncatechisms, etc. He made sure the people knew their faith, the\nCatholic theology of obedience, what Modernism was, etc. He\ninnoculated the people against what was coming.\n\nWell, one day the order came from Rome for his retirement. It came\nwhen the Pope was sick. Bishop de Castro-Mayer waited until the Pope\nrecovered, then inquired whether this command was what the Pope really\nwanted, or something that some Liberal had commanded in his absence.\nThe Pope confirmed the decision. So the good bishop retired.\n\nThe injustice that followed was completely incredible. A new bishop\nwas installed. He proceeded to expel most of bishop de Castro-Mayer\'s\nclergy from their churches, because they refused to celebrate the New\nMass. The new bishop would visit a parish, and celebrate a New Mass.\nThe people would promptly walk out of the church en masse. The bishop\nwas *enraged* by this. He usually resorted to enlisting the help of\nthe secular authorities to eject the priest from the church. The\npriests would just start building new churches; the people were\ncompletely behind them. The old parishes had the New Mass, as the\nbishop desired -- and virtually no parishioners.\n\nThe prime motivation for all this was completely illegal, according to\ncanon law. No priest can be penalized in any way for saying the\ntraditional Mass, because of legislation enacted by Pope Saint Pius V.\nNor is there any obligation to say the New Mass.\n\nDuring all this process, the people of Campos, not just private\nindividuals, but including civil authorities, were constantly sending\npetitions and letters to Rome to do something about the new Modernist\nbishop. NOTHING was ever done; no help ever arrived from Rome.\nEventually 37 priests were kicked out, and about 40,000 people.\n\n My question to the supporters of SSPX is this:\n\n\t Is there ANY way that your positions with respect to church reforms\n\t could change and be conformed to those of the Pope? (assuming that\n\t the Pope\'s position does not change and that the leaders of SSPX\n\t don\'t jointly make such choice.)\n\n If not, this appears to be claiming infallible teaching authority.\n If I adopt the view that "I\'m NOT wrong, I CAN\'T be wrong, and\n there\'s NO WAY I\'ll change my mind, YOU must change yours", that\n I\'ve either left the Catholic Church or it has left me.\n\nIf the Pope defines certain things ex cathedra, that would be the end\nof the controversy. That process is all very well understood in\nCatholic theology, and anyone who doesn\'t go along with it is an\ninstant non-Catholic.\n\nThe problem here is that people do not appreciate what is going on in\nthe Catholic world. If they knew the Faith, and what our bishops are\ndoing, they would be shocked!\n\n We sould argue from now until the Second Coming about what the "real"\n traditional teaching of the Church is. If this were a simple matter\n East and West would not have been separated for over 900 years.\n\nThis isn\'t the case in the Catholic Church. There is a massive body\nof traditional teaching. The Popes of the last 150 years are\nespecially relevant. There is no question at all what the traditional\ndoctrine is.\n\n I thought that the teaching magisterieum of the church did not allow\n error in teachings regarding faith and morals even in the short term.`\n I may be wrong here, I\'m not Roman Catholic. :-)\n\nThat\'s heresy, more or less. Although they have done a great job\nsince the Reformation, the last 30 years have seen so many errors\nspread that it\'s pitiful.\n\nInfallibility rests in the Pope, and in the Church as a whole. In the\nshort term, a Pope, or large sections of the Church can go astray. In\nfact, that\'s what usually happens during a major heresy: large\nsections of the Church go astray. (The Pope historically has been\nmuch more reliable.) Everything will always come back in the long\nrun.\n\n What would be the effect of a Pope making an ex cathedra statement\n regarding the SSPX situation? Would it be honored? If not, how\n do you get around the formal doctrine of infallibility?\n Again, I\'m not trying to be contentions, I\'m trying to understand.\n Since I\'m Orthodox, I\'ve got no real vested interest in the outcome,\n one way or the other.\n\nYes, it would be honored. Infallibility is infallibility. But what\nis he going to define? That the New Mass is a better expression of\nthe Catholic Faith than the old? That sex education in the Catholic\nschools is wonderful? That all religions are wonderful except for\nthat professed by the Popes prior to Vatican II?\n\n It does if the command was legitimate. SSPX does not view the\n Pope\'s commands as legitimate. Why? This is a VERY slippery slope.\n\nNot really; start studying the major Catholic theologians of the last\n300 years. Everything is very well spelled out. The West excels at\ncritical thought, remember? That\'s what Catholic theologians have\nbeen busy at for centuries.\n',
"From: dlecoint@garnet.acns.fsu.edu (Darius_Lecointe)\nSubject: Re: Sabbath Admissions 5of5\nOrganization: Florida State University\nLines: 27\n\nI have been following this thread on talk.religion,\nsoc.religion.christian.bible-study and here with interest. I am amazed at\nthe different non-biblical argument those who oppose the Sabbath present. \n\nOne question comes to mind, especially since my last one was not answered\nfrom Scripture. Maybe clh may wish to provide the first response.\n\nThere is a lot of talk about the Sabbath of the TC being ceremonial. \nAnswer this:\n\nSince the TC commandments is one law with ten parts on what biblical\nbasis have you decided that only the Sabbath portion is ceremonial?\nOR You say that the seventh-day is the Sabbath but not applicable to\nGentile Christians. Does that mean the Sabbath commandment has been\nannulled? References please.\n\nIf God did not intend His requirements on the Jews to be applicable to\nGentile Christians why did He make it plain that the Gentiles were now\ngrafted into the commonwealth of Israel?\n\nDarius\n\n[Acts 15, Rom 14:5, Col 2:16, Gal 4:10. I believe we've gotten into\na loop at this point. This is one of those classic situations where\nboth sides think they have clear Scriptural support, and there's no\nobvious argument that is going to change anybody's mind. I don't think\nwe're going anything but repeating ourselves. --clh]\n",
'From: jim.zisfein@factory.com (Jim Zisfein) \nSubject: HYPOGLYCEMIA\nDistribution: world\nOrganization: Invention Factory\'s BBS - New York City, NY - 212-274-8298v.32bis\nReply-To: jim.zisfein@factory.com (Jim Zisfein) \nLines: 19\n\n>From: anello@adcs00.fnal.gov (Anthony Anello)\n>Can anyone tell me if a bloodcount of 40 when diagnosed as hypoglycemic is\n>dangerous, i.e. indicates a possible pancreatic problem? One Dr. says no, the\n>other (not his specialty) says the first is negligent and that another blood\n\nBlood glucose levels of 40 or so are common several hours after a\nbig meal. This level will usually not cause symptoms.\n\n>test should be done. Also, what is a good diet (what has worked) for a hypo-\n>glycemic?\n\nIf you mean "reactive" hypoglycemia, there are usually no symptoms,\nhence there is no disease, hence the dietary recommendations are the\nsame as for anyone else. If a patient complains of dizziness,\nfaintness, sweating, palpitations, etc. reliably several hours after\na big meal, the recommendations are obvious - eat smaller meals.\n---\n . SLMR 2.1 . E-mail: jim.zisfein@factory.com (Jim Zisfein)\n \n',
'From: orourke@sophia.smith.edu (Joseph O\'Rourke)\nSubject: Re: Delaunay Triangulation\nOrganization: Smith College, Northampton, MA, US\nLines: 22\n\nIn article <lsk1v9INN93c@caspian.usc.edu> zyeh@caspian.usc.edu (zhenghao yeh) writes:\n>\n>Does anybody know what Delaunay Triangulation is?\n>Is there any reference to it? \n>Is it useful for creating 3-D objects? If yes, what\'s the advantage?\n\nThere is a vast literature on Delaunay triangulations, literally\nhundreds of papers. A program is even provided with every copy of \nMathematica nowadays. You might look at this if you are interested in \nusing it for creating 3D objects:\n\n@article{Boissonnat5,\n author = "J.D. Boissonnat",\n title = "Geometric Structures for Three-Dimensional Shape Representation",\n journal = "ACM Transactions on Graphics",\n month = "October",\n year = {1984},\n volume = {3},\n number = {4},\n pages = {266-286}\n}\n\n',
"From: HURH@FNAL.FNAL.GOV (Patrick Hurh)\nSubject: Rayshade to DXF,RIB,etc.. (Strata)?\nOrganization: FNAL\nLines: 30\nDistribution: world\nNNTP-Posting-Host: adnet13.fnal.gov\n\nI'm a mac user who wants to use some of the rayshade models I've built\nusing macrayshade (rayshade-M) with Stratavision 3d. Since Stratavision\ncan import many different model files I thought this would be a cinch...\nbut I haven't been able to find a simple translator that will work on the\nmac. Any ideas?\n\nStratavision 3d should be able to import:\n\nDXF\nMiniCAD\nSuper 3d\nSwivel 3d professional\n\nout of the box and:\n\nRIB\nIGS\n\nwith externals.\n\nAlso, if anyone knows of any other translator externals available for\nStratavision 3d (esp. Rayshade!) please e-mail me!\n\nBTW, I'm going to send mail to the rayshade usrs mailing list tomorrow (I\nmisplaced the address) but since most users of rayshade do not seem to\noperate with macs, I'm not getting my hopes up...\n\nthanks in advance,\n\n--patrick. hurh@fnal.fnal.gov\n",
'From: mdpyssc@fs1.mcc.ac.uk (Sue Cunningham)\nSubject: Fractals? What good are they ?\nOrganization: Manchester Computing Centre\nLines: 5\n\nWe have been using Iterated Systems compression board to compress \npathology images and are getting ratios of 40:1 to 70:1 without too\nmuch loss in quality. It is taking about 4 mins per image to compress,\non a 25Mhz 486 but decompression is almost real time on a 386 in software \nalone.\n',
'From: geb@cs.pitt.edu (Gordon Banks)\nSubject: Re: tuberculosis\nReply-To: geb@cs.pitt.edu (Gordon Banks)\nOrganization: Univ. of Pittsburgh Computer Science\nLines: 17\n\nIn article <206@ky3b.UUCP> km@ky3b.pgh.pa.us (Ken Mitchum) writes:\n>\n>I found out that tuberculosis appears to be the only MEDICAL (as oppsed to psychiatric)\n>condition that one can be committed for, and this is because very specific laws were\n>enacted many years ago regarding tb. I am certain these vary from state to state.\n\nI think in Illinois venereal disease (the old ones, not AIDS) was included.\nSyphillis was, for sure.\n\n\n\n\n-- \n----------------------------------------------------------------------------\nGordon Banks N3JXP | "Skepticism is the chastity of the intellect, and\ngeb@cadre.dsl.pitt.edu | it is shameful to surrender it too soon." \n----------------------------------------------------------------------------\n',
"From: I3150101@dbstu1.rz.tu-bs.de (Benedikt Rosenau)\nSubject: Re: islamic genocide\nOrganization: Technical University Braunschweig, Germany\nLines: 23\n\nIn article <1qi83b$ec4@horus.ap.mchp.sni.de>\nfrank@D012S658.uucp (Frank O'Dwyer) writes:\n \n(Deletion)\n>#>Few people can imagine dying for capitalism, a few\n>#>more can imagine dying for democracy, but a lot more will die for their\n>#>Lord and Savior Jesus Christ who Died on the Cross for their Sins.\n>#>Motivation, pure and simple.\n>\n>Got any cites for this nonsense? How many people will die for Mom?\n>Patriotism? Freedom? Money? Their Kids? Fast cars and swimming pools?\n>A night with Kim Basinger or Mel Gibson? And which of these things are evil?\n>\n \nRead a history book, Fred. And tell me why so many religions command to\ncommit genocide when it has got nothing to do with religion. Or why so many\nreligions say that not living up to the standards of the religion is worse\nthan dieing? Coincidence, I assume. Or ist part of the absolute morality\nyou describe so often?\n \nTheism is strongly correlated with irrational belief in absolutes. Irrational\nbelief in absolutes is strongly correlated with fanatism.\n Benedikt\n",
'From: morley@suncad.camosun.bc.ca (Mark Morley)\nSubject: VGA Mode 13h Routines Available\nNntp-Posting-Host: suncad.camosun.bc.ca\nOrganization: Camosun College, Victoria B.C, Canada\nX-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4\nLines: 31\n\nHi there,\n\nI\'ve made a VGA mode 13h graphics library available via FTP. I originally\nwrote the routines as a kind of exercise for myself, but perhaps someone\nhere will find them useful. They are certainly useable as they are, but\nare missing some higher-level functionality. They\'re intended more as an\nintro to mode 13h programming, a starting point.\n\n*** The library assumes a 386 processor, but it is trivial to modify it\n*** for a 286. If enough people ask, I\'ll make the mods and re-post it as a\n*** different version.\n\nThe routines are written in assembly (TASM) and are callable from C. They\nare fairly simple, but I\'ve found them to be very fast (for my purposes,\nanyway). Routines are included to enter and exit mode 13h, define a\n"virtual screen", put and get pixels, put a pixmap (rectangular image with\nno transparent spots), put a sprite (image with see-thru areas), copy\nareas of the virtual screen into video memory, etc. I\'ve also included a\nsimple C routine to draw a line, as well as a C routine to load a 256\ncolor GIF image into a buffer. I also wrote a quick\'n\'dirty(tm) demo program\nthat bounces a bunch of sprites around behind three "windows".\n\nThe whole package is available on spang.camosun.bc.ca in /pub/dos/vgl.zip \nIt is zipped with pkzip 2.04g\n\nIt is completely in the public domain, as far as I\'m concerned. Do with\nit whatever you like. However, it\'d be nice to get credit where it\'s due,\nand maybe an e-mail telling me you like it (if you don\'t like it don\'t bother)\n\nMark\nmorley@camosun.bc.ca\n',
'From: echen@burn.ee.washington.edu (Ed Chen)\nSubject: Windows BMP to Sun raster or others?\nArticle-I.D.: shelley.1r49iaINNc3k\nDistribution: world\nOrganization: University of Washington\nLines: 11\nNNTP-Posting-Host: burn.ee.washington.edu\n\nHi,\n\n\nAnyone has a converter from BMP to any format that xview or xv can\n\nhandle? This converter must run Unix.. I looked at the FAQ and downloaded\nseveral packages but had no luck... thanks in advance.\n\ned\n\nechen@burn.ee.washington.edu\n',
"From: russ@pmafire.inel.gov (Russ Brown)\nSubject: Re: Altitude adjustment\nOrganization: WINCO\nLines: 22\n\nIn article <4159@mdavcr.mda.ca> vida@mdavcr.mda.ca (Vida Morkunas) writes:\n>I live at sea-level, and am called-upon to travel to high-altitude cities\n>quite frequently, on business. The cities in question are at 7000 to 9000\n>feet of altitude. One of them especially is very polluted...\n\nMexico City, Bogota, La Paz?\n>\n>Often I feel faint the first two or three days. I feel lightheaded, and\n>my heart seems to pound a lot more than at sea-level. Also, it is very\n>dry in these cities, so I will tend to drink a lot of water, and keep\n>away from dehydrating drinks, such as those containing caffeine or alcohol.\n>\n\n>Thing is, I still have symptoms. How can I ensure that my short trips there\n>(no, I don't usually have a week to acclimatize) are as comfortable as possible?\n>Is there something else that I could do?\n\nGo three days early. Preliminary acclimatization takes 3-4 days. It\ntakes weeks or months for full acclimatization. Could you be\nexperiencing some jet lag, too?\n\n\n",
'From: rsteele@adam.ll.mit.edu (Rob Steele)\nSubject: Re: Atheist\'s views on Christianity (was: Re: "Accepting Jeesus in your heart...")\nReply-To: rob@ll.mit.edu\nOrganization: MIT Lincoln Laboratory\nLines: 19\n\nIn article <Apr.13.00.08.22.1993.28397@athos.rutgers.edu> \ntrajan@cwis.unomaha.edu (Stephen McIntyre) writes:\n\n> Well, then, Buddhism, Confucianism, Taoism, Hinduism, Judaism,\n> Zoerasterism, Shintoism, and Islam should fit this bit of logic\n> quite nicely... :-) All have depth, all have enduring values,\n> thus all must be true...\n\nYep. There\'s truth in all those religions, even in science. \nChristianity doesn\'t claim to know it all. It does claim certain \nthings are true though that contradict other religions\' truth claims. \nSo they can\'t all be true.\n\n------------------------------------------------------------\nRob Steele In coming to understand anything \nMIT Lincoln Laboratory we are rejecting the facts as they\n244 Wood St., M-203 are for us in favour of the facts\nLexington, MA 02173 as they are. \n617/981-2575 C.S. Lewis\n',
"From: stusoft@hardy.u.washington.edu (Stuart Denman)\nSubject: Re: 3D2 files - what are they?\nArticle-I.D.: shelley.1rft1nINNc7s\nOrganization: University of Washington\nLines: 16\nNNTP-Posting-Host: hardy.u.washington.edu\n\ndoug@hparc0.aus.hp.com (Doug Parsons) writes:\n\n>I was chaining around in the anonymous ftp world looking for 3D Studio\n>meshes and other interesting graphical stuff for the program, and found\n>a few files with the extension 3D2. My 3DS v2.01 doesn't know this type\n>of file, so what are they?\n\nThey are 3D object files for CAD 3D 2.0, a program written by Tom Hudson\nfor the Atari ST computers. Don't know much more about them except that\nthey are stored with the points first, then the surfaces are next, and are\nmade by listing 3 point numbers that make up the triangle surface. Then\nthere's a header that describes coloring, lighting, etc. Don't know much\nmore than this, hope this helps.\n\nStuart Denman\nstusoft@u.washington.edu\n",
'From: johnsh@rpi.edu (Hugh Johnson)\nSubject: Re: QuickTime movie available\nArticle-I.D.: mustang.johnsh-060493161931\nOrganization: Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute\nLines: 31\nNntp-Posting-Host: mustang.stu.rpi.edu\n\nIn article <johnsh-040493161915@mustang.stu.rpi.edu>, I wrote:\n> \n> I\'ve used the recently-released Macintosh application MPEG to QuickTime to\n> convert the excellent MPEG "canyon.mpg" into a QuickTime movie. While\n> anyone who would want this movie is perfectly able to convert it\n> themselves, I thought I\'d let the net know that I\'d be glad to mail copies\n> of mine out. The movie conversion took close to SIX HOURS on my poor\n> little IIcx; in other words, unless you\'ve got a Quadra, you might not want\n> to tie up your machine in converting this file.\n> \n> The movie is a fast fly-through of a fractal-generated canyon landscape. \n> The movie is 58 seconds long, and uses the compact video compressor (i.e.,\n> QuickTime v1.5). The movie looks okay on 8-bit displays, and looks\n> absolutely awesome on 16- and 24-bit displays.\n> \n> I\'d be happy to mail this movie to the first 20 or so people who ask for\n> it. The only caveat is you need to be able to receive a nine-megabyte mail\n> message (the movie was stuff-it\'ed down to seven megs, but binhex ruined\n> that party). If more then 20 people want this movie, then it\'s just more\n> evidence that the net needs a dedicated QuickTime FTP archive site. C\'mon,\n> someone\'s gotta have a spare 1.2GB drive out there...\n\nOkay, I\'ve received a whole lot of requests for the movie, so for\nsimplicity\'s sake I can\'t mail out any more than I\'ve already received (as\nof 16:30 EDT, Tuesday). Maybe it\'ll pop up on a site sooner or later.\n\n==============================================================================\nHugh Johnson (johnsh@rpi.edu) | \nRensselaer Polytechnic Institute | Welcome to Macintosh.\nTroy, New York, USA |\n==============================================================================\n',
'From: young@is.s.u-tokyo.ac.jp (YOUNG Shio Hong)\nSubject: Looking for Dr. Bala R. Vatti\'s email address\nNntp-Posting-Host: rabbit-gw\nOrganization: Dept. of Information Science, Univ. of Tokyo, Japan.\nDistribution: comp.graphics\nX-Bytes: 660\nLines: 27\n\nHi!\n\nI am looking for the email address of the author to\n"A Generic Solution to Polygon Clipping", \nCommunication of the ACM, July 1992, Vol. 35, No. 7. \nI got information about the author as follows\n\tMr. Bala R. Vatti\n\tLCEC, 65 River Road, Hudson, N.H. 03051\n\temail: vatti@waynar.lcec.lockheed\nI want to get some related and detailed papers about the\nsame topic from the author. But I failed to send my email \nto the address. Any information is appreciated.\n\nThank you very much.\n\nBest regards.\n\nS. H. Young\nKunii Lab\nDept. of Information Science\nFaculty of Science\nUniversity of Tokyo\nBunkyo-Ku, Hongo 7-3-1\n113 Tokyo, Japan\nemail: young@is.s.u-tokyo.ac.jp\n\n',
'From: geb@cs.pitt.edu (Gordon Banks)\nSubject: Re: OB-GYN residency\nReply-To: geb@cs.pitt.edu (Gordon Banks)\nOrganization: Univ. of Pittsburgh Computer Science\nLines: 30\n\nIn article <1r12bv$55e@terminator.rs.itd.umich.edu> Donald_Mackie@med.umich.edu (Donald Mackie) writes:\n>\n>FMGs who are not citizens are, like all aliens, in a difficult\n>situation. Only citizens get to vote here, so non-citizens are of\n>little or no interest to legislators. Also, the non-citizen may well\n>be in the middle of processing for resident alien status. There is a\n>stron sense that rocking the boat (eg. suing a residency program)\n>will delay the granting of that status, perhaps for ever.\n>\n\nOne should be aware that foreign doctors admitted for training\nare ineligible to apply for resident alien status. In order\nto get the green card they have to return to their country and\napply at the embassy there. Of course, many somehow get around\nthis problem. Often it is by agreeing to practice in a town\nwith a need and then the congressman from that district tacks\na rider onto a bill saying "Dr. X will be allowed to have permanent\nresidency in the US." A lot of bills in congress have such riders\nattached to them. Marrying a US citizen is the most common, although\nnow they are even cracking down on that and trying to tell US\ncitizens they must follow their spouse back to the Phillipines, or\nwhereever.\n\n\n\n-- \n----------------------------------------------------------------------------\nGordon Banks N3JXP | "Skepticism is the chastity of the intellect, and\ngeb@cadre.dsl.pitt.edu | it is shameful to surrender it too soon." \n----------------------------------------------------------------------------\n',
"From: conditt@tsd.arlut.utexas.edu (Paul Conditt)\nSubject: Goodbye, but not forever\nOrganization: Applied Research Laboratories, University of Texas at Austin\nLines: 46\n\nPraise God! I'm writing everyone to inform you that I have been\naccepted to the Doctor of Psychology program at Fuller Theological\nSeminary in Pasadena, CA. I've been working long and hard to try to\nget in there and have said many hours of prayer. I'm very excited for\nthis opportunity, but also very nervous about it.\n\nI'd appreciate the prayers of the readers of this group for my preparation\nfor school this summer and for my career as a graduate student. I'd also\nappreciate any information any of the readers of this group might have \nabout Fuller, Pasadena, or California in general, like good places to\nhave fun, good churches to check out, or anything else that might be\ngood for me to know. Also, if anyone knows of any foundations that \nmight have funding or scholarship money available, please let me know!\nOf course, if you wish to make a personal contribution.....:)\n\nThe contract for my current job is over at the end of April. I'll be\ntaking a couple classes at UT this summer and then I'll be moving to\nPasadena. Hopefully, I'll be able to get net.access next fall, although\nFuller doesn't have it itself.\n\nI've enjoyed the interesting discussions and I commend everyone for their\nearnest search to please God. Thanks to our moderator for providing\nsuch a wonderful service and in doing a great job of running this news\ngroup.\n\nMay God bless you all. Vaya con Dios, mi amigas y amigos.\n\nPaul\n\n\n===============================================================================\nPaul Conditt\t\tInternet: conditt@titan.tsd.arlut.utexas.edu\nApplied Research\tPhone:\t (512) 835-3422 FAX: (512) 835-3416/3259\n Laboratories\t\tFedex:\t 10000 Burnet Road, Austin, Texas 78758-4423\nUniversity of Texas\tPostal:\t P.O. Box 8029, Austin, Texas 78713-8029\nAustin, Texas <----- the most wonderful place in Texas to live\n\n\n TTTTTTTTTTTTTTT \n TTT TTT TTT \n TTT \n TTTTTTTTTTTTT Texas Tech Lady Raiders\n TT TTT TT 1992-93 SWC Champions\n TTT 1992-93 NCAA National Champions\n TTT\n TTTTTTT\n",
'From: kaminski@netcom.com (Peter Kaminski)\nSubject: Re: Need to find information about current trends in diabetes.\nLines: 63\nOrganization: The Information Deli - via Netcom / San Jose, California\n\nIn <C5nF2r.KpJ@world.std.com> steveo@world.std.com (Steven W Orr) writes:\n\n>I looked for diab in my .newsrc and came up with nuthin. Anyone have\n>any good sources for where I can read?\n\nCheck out the DIABETIC mailing list -- a knowledgable, helpful, friendly,\nvoluminous bunch. Send email to LISTSERV@PCCVM.BITNET, with this line\nin the body:\n\nSUBSCRIBE DIABETIC <your name here>\n\nAlso, the vote for misc.health.diabetes, a newsgroup for general discussion\nof diabetes, is currently underway, and will close on 29 April. From the\n2nd CFV, posted to news.announce.newgroups, news.groups, and sci.med,\nmessage <1q1jshINN4v1@rodan.UU.NET>:\n\n>To place a vote FOR the creation of misc.health.diabetes, send an\n>email message to yes@sun6850.nrl.navy.mil\n>\n>To place a vote AGAINST creation of misc.health.diabetes, send an\n>email message to no@sun6850.nrl.navy.mil\n>\n>The contents of the message should contain the line "I vote\n>for/against misc.health.diabetes as proposed". Email messages sent to\n>the above addresses must constitute unambiguous and unconditional\n>votes for/against newsgroup creation as proposed. Conditional votes\n>will not be accepted. Only votes emailed to the above addresses will\n>be counted; mailed replies to this posting will be returned. In the\n>event that more than one vote is placed by an individual, only the\n>most recent vote will be counted. One additional CFV will be posted\n>during the course of the vote, along with an acknowledgment of those\n>votes received to date. No information will be supplied as to how\n>people are voting until the final acknowledgment is made at the end,\n>at which time the full vote will be made public.\n>\n>Voting will continue until 23:59 GMT, 29 Apr 93.\n>Votes will not be accepted after this date.\n>\n>Any administrative inquiries pertaining to this CFV may be made by\n>email to swkirch@sun6850.nrl.navy.mil\n>\n>The proposed charter appears below.\n>\n>--------------------------\n>\n>Charter: \n>\n>misc.health.diabetes unmoderated\n>\n>1. The purpose of misc.health.diabetes is to provide a forum for the\n>discussion of issues pertaining to diabetes management, i.e.: diet,\n>activities, medicine schedules, blood glucose control, exercise,\n>medical breakthroughs, etc. This group addresses the issues of\n>management of both Type I (insulin dependent) and Type II (non-insulin\n>dependent) diabetes. Both technical discussions and general support\n>discussions relevant to diabetes are welcome.\n>\n>2. Postings to misc.heath.diabetes are intended to be for discussion\n>purposes only, and are in no way to be construed as medical advice.\n>Diabetes is a serious medical condition requiring direct supervision\n>by a primary health care physician. \n>\n>-----(end of charter)-----\n',
'From: geb@cs.pitt.edu (Gordon Banks)\nSubject: Re: tuberculosis\nReply-To: geb@cs.pitt.edu (Gordon Banks)\nOrganization: Univ. of Pittsburgh Computer Science\nLines: 20\n\nIn article <1993Mar25.020646.852@news.columbia.edu> jhl14@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Jonathan H. Lin) writes:\n>I was wondering what steps are being taken to prevent the spread of\n>multi-drug resistant tuberculosis. I\'ve heard that some places are\n>thinking of incarcerating those with the disease. Doesn\'t this violate\n>the civil rights of these individuals? Are there any legal precedents\n>for such action?\n>\n\nWho knows in this legal climate, but there is tremendous legal precendent\nfor forcibly quarantining TB patients in sanitariums. 100 yrs ago\nit was done all the time. It has been done sporadically all along\nin patients who won\'t take their medicine. If you have TB you\nmay find yourself under surveilence of the Public Health Department\nand you may find they have the legal power to insist you make your\nclinic visits.\n-- \n----------------------------------------------------------------------------\nGordon Banks N3JXP | "Skepticism is the chastity of the intellect, and\ngeb@cadre.dsl.pitt.edu | it is shameful to surrender it too soon." \n----------------------------------------------------------------------------\n',
'From: sschaff@roc.slac.stanford.edu (Stephen F. Schaffner)\nSubject: Re: Ancient Books\nOrganization: Stanford Linear Accelerator Center\nLines: 18\n\nIn article <Apr.10.05.32.47.1993.14396@athos.rutgers.edu>, \nwhheydt@pbhya.pacbell.com (Wilson Heydt) writes:\n\n|> As for the dating of the oldest extant texts of the NT.... How would\n|> you feel about the US Civil War in a couple of thousand years if the\n|> only extant text was written about *now*? Now adjust for a largely\n|> illiterate population, and one in which every copy of a manuscript is\n|> done by hand....\n\nConsiderably better than I feel about, say, the Punic Wars, or the \nPeloponnesian War (spelling optional), or almost any other event in \nclassical history. How close to the events do you think the oldest \nextent manuscripts are in those cases?\n\n-- \nSteve Schaffner sschaff@unixhub.slac.stanford.edu\n\tThe opinions expressed may be mine, and may not be those of SLAC, \nStanford University, or the DOE.\n',
'From: milsh@nmr-z.mgh.harvard.edu (Alex Milshteyn)\nSubject: Re: Is MSG sensitivity superstition?\nOrganization: Mass General Hospital CIPR \nLines: 35\n\nIn article <C5H74z.9v4@crdnns.crd.ge.com> meltsner@crd.ge.com writes:\n>\n>\n>I wouldn\'t call it a double-blind, but one local restaurant\'s soup\n>provokes an impressive migraine headache for my wife -- that one\n>take-out and no other... \n\nNothing unisual.\nQuote:\n"\nChinese Restaurant Syndrome (CRS):\na transient syndrome, associated with arterial dilatation, due to ingestion\nof monosodium glutamate, which is used liberally in seasoning chinese\nfood; it is characterized by throbbing of the head, lightheadedness,\ntightness of the jaw, neck and shoulders, and bachache.\n"\nEnd quote.\nSource: Dorland\'s Illustrated Medical Dictionary, 27th edition, 1988, W.B. Saunders, p 1632.\n\nThis was known long ago. Brain produces and uses some MSG naturally,\nbut not in doses it is served at some chinese places. \nHaving said that, i might add, that in MHO, MSG does not enhance\nflavor enoughf for me to miss it. When I go to chinese places,\nI order food without MSG. Goos places will do it for you.\nA prerequisite for such a service would be a waiter, capable of\nunderstanding, what you want.\n\n\nGood Luck.\n\n\nam\n-- \nAlexander M. Milshteyn M.D. <milsh@cipr-server.mgh.harvard.edu>\nCIPR, MGH in Boston, MA. (617)724-9507 Vox (617)726-7830 Fax\n',
"From: N020BA@tamvm1.tamu.edu\nSubject: Re: Help! Need 3-D graphics code/package for DOS!!!\nOrganization: Texas A&M University\nLines: 32\nNNTP-Posting-Host: tamvm1.tamu.edu\n\nIn article <1993Apr19.101747.22169@ugle.unit.no>\nrazor@swix.nvg.unit.no (Runar Jordahl) writes:\n>\n>N020BA@tamvm1.tamu.edu wrote:\n>: Help!! I need code/package/whatever to take 3-D data and turn it into\n>: a wireframe surface with hidden lines removed. I'm using a DOS machine, and\n>: the code can be in ANSI C or C++, ANSI Fortran or Basic. The data I'm using\n>: forms a rectangular grid.\n>: is a general interest question.\n>: Thank you!!!!!!\n \n I'm afraid your reply didn't get thru. I do appreciate you trying to\nreply, however. Please try again.\n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n",
'Subject: POV file constructor for Unix/X11\nFrom: Craig.Humphrey@comp.vuw.ac.nz (chumphre)\nReply-To: chumphre@comp.vuw.ac.nz\nDistribution: world\nOrganization: Victoria University of Wellington. New Zealand\nNNTP-Posting-Host: regent.comp.vuw.ac.nz\nLines: 13\n\n\nHi, I\'m just getting into PoVRay and I was wondering if there is a graphic\npackage that outputs .POV files. Any help would be appreciated.\nThanks.\n\nLater\'ish\nCraig\n\n-- \n |\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/| \n | ___ ___ | "I didn\'t do it, nobody saw me do it, \n |/ \\/ \\| you can\'t prove anything."\n_ccc_c_#_|__#_ccc_c_____chumphre@comp.vuw.ac.nz_______________________________\n',
'From: nrp@st-andrews.ac.uk (Norman R. Paterson)\nSubject: Re: Genocide is Caused by Atheism\nOrganization: Association Against Having Fun With Your Clothes On\nLines: 23\n\nIn article <1993Apr5.020504.19326@ultb.isc.rit.edu> snm6394@ultb.isc.rit.edu (S.N. Mozumder ) writes:\n[...]\n>One of the reasons that you are atheist is that you limit God by giving\n>God a form. God does not have a "face".\n\nWait a minute. I thought you said that Allah (I presume Allah == God) was unknowable,\nand yet here you are claiming to know a very concrete fact about him.\n\nYou say that God does not have a "face". Doesn\'t the bible say that God has hindparts?\n\nHow do you suggest I decide which (if any) of you is right? Or are you both right?\nGod has hindparts but no face? Or does your use of quotation marks:\n\n\tGod does not have a "face".\n\nallow you to interpret this to mean whatever you like?\n\n>\n>Peace,\n>\n>Bobby Mozumder\n\n-Norman\n',
"From: draper@gnd1.wtp.gtefsd.com (PAM DRAPER)\nSubject: Any info. on Vasomotor Rhinitis\nOrganization: GTE Government Systems, Federal Systems Division, Chantilly, VA\nLines: 20\nDistribution: world\nReply-To: draper@gnd1.wtp.gtefsd.com\nNNTP-Posting-Host: gnd1.wtp.gtefsd.com\nNews-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.3-4 \n\n\n\nI recently attended an allery seminar. Steroid Nasal sprays were \ndiscussed. Afterward on a one-on-one basis, I asked the speaker what if \nnone of the Vancanese, Beconase, Nasalide, Nasalcort, or Nasalchrom work \nnor do any oral decongestants work. She replied that she saw an article on \nVasomotor Rhinitis. That this is not an allergic reaction and that nothing \nother than the Afrin's and such would work. (Which in my case is true).\n\nI want to find out as much as possible about this, since I am going to see \nmy allergist in May and want to be armed to the hilt with information; \nsince nothing he has done with me has helped me at all and I have had no \nrelief for 14 months.\n\nPlease respond if you know anything about this and/or please let me know \nwhat articles might be helpful that I could look up in the library.\n\n\n\n\n",
"From: tw2@irz.inf.tu-dresden.de (Thomas Wolf)\nSubject: Q: TIFF description\nOrganization: Dept. of Computer Science, TU Dresden, Germany\nLines: 13\nDistribution: world\nNNTP-Posting-Host: irz205.inf.tu-dresden.de\nKeywords: TIFF\n\nSorry for wasting your time with a probably simple question, but I'm not\nan computer graphic expert. I want to read TIFF-Files with a PASCAL-program.\nThe problem is, that the files I want to read are in compressed form \n( code 1, e.g. Huffman ). All books & articles I found describe only the\nplain (uncompressed) format. I don't know where to get the original\nTIFF specification, furthermore I haven't any access to a realy complete\nlibrary. Can anybody direct me to a good book or (even better) to an \nspecification available via ftp ?\n\nThanks in advance - Thomas Wolf\n\nps: direct mail would be prefered\n\n",
'From: bockamp@Informatik.TU-Muenchen.DE (Florian Bockamp)\nSubject: WANTED: Matrox PG-1281 CV driver\nOriginator: bockamp@hphalle2g.informatik.tu-muenchen.de\nOrganization: Technische Universitaet Muenchen, Germany\nLines: 24\n\n\n\n\n\nHi!\n\nI need a Windows 3.1 driver for the Matrox PG-1281 CV\nSVGA card. \nAt the moment Windows runs only in the 640x480 mode.\nIf you have a driver for this card, please send it \nwith the OEMSETUP.INF to \n\nbockamp@Informatik.TU-Muenchen.DE\n\nThanks!\n\n-- \n+-----------------------------------------------------------------+\n| Florian Bockamp \'\'\' |\n| bockamp@informatik.tu-muenchen.de (o o) |\n+---------------------------------------------oOO--( )--OOo-------+\n| - |\n| "It\'s not a bug, it\'s an undocumented feature!" |\n+-----------------------------------------------------------------+\n',
'From: jasons@atlastele.com (Jason Smith)\nSubject: Re: Atheist\'s views on Christianity (was: Re: "Accepting Jeesus in your heart...")\nOrganization: Atlas Telecom Inc.\nLines: 169\n\nIn article <Apr.19.05.13.48.1993.29266@athos.rutgers.edu> kempmp@phoenix.oulu.fi (Petri Pihko) writes:\n= Jason Smith (jasons@atlastele.com) wrote:\n= \n= : [ The discussion begins: why does the universe exist at all? ]\n= \n= : One of the Laws of Nature, specifying cause and effect seems to dictate \n= : (at least to this layman\'s mind) there must be a causal event. No\n= : reasonable alternative exists.\n= \n= I would argue that causality is actually a property of spacetime; \n= causes precede their effects. \n\nAnd I must concede here. Cause *before* effect, implies time, time is part\nof spacetime. Hense, the argument would be valid. I could return and say \nthat this does not infer the cause and effect relationship being *unique*\nto *this* spacetime, but I won\'t 8^), because the point is moot. Doesn\'t\naddress why (which Petri Pikho addresses below). \n\nI also concede that I was doubly remiss, as I asserted "No reasonable\nalternative exists", an entirely subjective statement on my part (and one\nthat could be invalidated, given time and further discovery by the\nscientist). I also understand that a proving a theory does not necessarily\nspecify that "this is how it happened", but proposes a likely description of\nthe phenomena in question. Am I mistaken with this understanding?\n\n= But if you claim that there must be\n= an answer to "how" did the universe (our spacetime) emerge from \n= "nothing", science has some good candidates for an answer.\n\nAll of which require something we Christians readily admit to: ``Faith\'\'.\n\nThe fact that there are several candidates belies that *none* are conclusive. \nWith out conclusive evidence, we are left with faith.\n\nIt could even be argued that one of these hypotheses may one day be proven (as\nbest as a non-repeatable event can be "proven"). But I ask, what holds \nsomeone *today* to the belief that any or all of them are correct, except by \nfaith?\n\n[ a couple of paragraphs deleted. Summary: we ask "Why does the\nuniverse exist" ]\n\n= I think this question should actually be split into two parts, namely\n= \n= 1) Why is there existence? Why anything exists?\n= \n= and\n= \n= 2) How did the universe emerge from nothing?\n= \n= It is clear science has nothing to say about the first question. However,\n= is it a meaningful question, after all?\n=\n= I would say it isn\'t. Consider the following:\n\nApparently it *is* for many persons. Hence, we *have* religions.\n\n= The question "why anything exists" can be countered by\n= demanding answer to a question "why there is nothing in nothingness,\n= or in non-existence". Actually, both questions turn out to be\n= devoid of meaning. Things that exist do, and things that don\'t exist\n= don\'t exist. Tautology at its best.\n\nCarefully examine the original question, and then the "counter-question". \nThe first asks "Why", while the second is a request for definition. It \ndoesn\'t address why something does or does not exist, but asks to define \nthe lack of existence. The second question is unanswerable indeed, for\nhow do we identify something as "nothing" (aren\'t they mutually exclusive\nterms)?. How do we identify a state of non-existence (again, this is\nnearing the limits of this simple layman\'s ability to comprehend, and I\nwould appreciate an explanation). \n\nI might add, the worldview of "Things that exist do, and things that\ndon\'t...don\'t" is as grounded in the realm of the non-falsifiable,\nas does the theist\'s belief in God. It is based on the assumption\nthat there is *not* a reason for being, something as ultimately\n(un)supportable as the position of there being a reason. Its very\nfoundation exists in the same soil as that of one who claims there *is* a\nreason.\n\nWe come to this. Either "I am, therefore I am.", or "I am for a reason."\nIf the former is a satisfactory answer, then you are done, for you are\nsatisfied, and need not a doctor. If the latter, your search is just\nbeginning. \n\n= I seriously doubt God could have an answer to this question.\n\nTime will tell. 8^)\n\n= \n= Some Christians I have talked to have said that actually, God is\n= Himself the existence. However, I see several problems with this\n= answer. First, it inevitably leads to the conclusion that God is\n= actually _all_ existence, good and evil, devils and angels, us and\n= them. This is pantheism, not Christianity.\n\nAgreed. It would lead me to question their definition of Christianity as\nwell.\n\n= Another answer is that God is the _source_ of all existence.\n= This sounds much better, but I am tempted to ask: Does God\n= Himself exist, then? If God is the source of His own existence,\n= it can only mean that He has, in terms of human time, always\n= existed. But this is not the same as the source of all existence.\n\nThis does not preclude His existence. It only seeks to identify His\n*qualities* (implying He exists to *have* qualities, BTW).\n\n= The best answer I have heard is that human reasoning is incapable\n= of understanding such questions. Being an atheist myself, I do not\n= accept such answers, since I do not have any other methods.\n\nLike the theist, we come to a statement of faith, for this position assumes \nthat the evidence at hand is conclusive. Note, I am not arguing against \nscientific endeavor, for science is useful for understanding the universe in\nwhich we exist. But I differ from the atheist in a matter of perspective. I\nseek to understand what exists to understand and appreciate the art of the\nCreator.\n\nI also have discovered science is an inadequate tool to answer "why". It\nappears that M. Pihko agrees (as we shall see). But because a tool is\ninadequate to answer a question does not preclude the question. Asserting\nthat \'why\' is an invalid question does not provide an answer. \n\n= : As far as I can tell, the very laws of nature demand a "why". That isn\'t\n= : true of something outside of nature (i.e., *super*natural).\n= \n= This is not true. Science is a collection of models telling us "how",\n= not why, something happens. I cannot see any good reason why the "why"\n= questions would be bound only to natural things, assuming that the\n= supernatural domain exists. If supernatural beings exist, it is\n= as appropriate to ask why they do so as it is to ask why we exist.\n\nMy apologies. I was using why as "why did this come to be". Why did\npre-existence become existence. Why did pre-spacetime become spacetime.\n\nBut we come to the admission that science fails to answer "Why?". Because\nit can\'t be answered in the realm of modern science, does that make the\nquestion invalid?\n= : I don\'t believe *any*\n= : technology would be able to produce that necessary *spark* of life, despite\n= : having all of the parts available. Just my opinion.\n= \n= This opinion is also called vitalism; namely, that living systems are\n= somehow _fundamentally_ different from inanimate systems. Do Christians\n= in general adopt this position? What would happen when scientists announce\n= they have created primitive life (say, small bacteria) in a lab?\n\nI suppose we would do the same thing as when Galileo or Capernicus was \n*vindicated* (before someone starts jumping up and down screaming\n"Inquisition!", note I said *vindicated*. I certainly hope we\'ve gotten\nbeyond the "shooting the messenger" stage).\n\nM. Pihko does present a good point though. We may need to ask "What do I \nas an individual Christian base my faith on?" Will it be shaken by the\nproduction of evidence that shatters our "sacred cows" or will we seek to\nunderstand if a new discovery truly disagrees with what God *said* (and\ncontinues to say) in his Word?\n\n"Why do I ask why?" (apologies to Budweiser and company 8^]).\n\nJason.\n\n\n\n-- \nJason D. Smith \t|\njasons@atlastele.com\t| I\'m not young enough to know everything.\n 1x1 \t| \n',
'From: mangoe@cs.umd.edu (Charley Wingate)\nSubject: Re: A visit from the Jehovah\'s Witnesses (good grief!)\nLines: 7\n\nThe amount of energy being spent on ONE LOUSY SYLLOGISM says volumes for the\ntrue position of reason in this group.\n-- \nC. Wingate + "The peace of God, it is no peace,\n + but strife closed in the sod.\nmangoe@cs.umd.edu + Yet, brothers, pray for but one thing:\ntove!mangoe + the marv\'lous peace of God."\n',
'From: thssccb@iitmax.iit.edu (catherine c bareiss)\nSubject: Re: phone number of wycliffe translators UK\nOrganization: Illinois Institute of Technology\nLines: 36\n\nIn article <Apr.17.01.11.19.1993.2268@geneva.rutgers.edu> mprc@troi.cc.rochester.edu (M. Price) writes:\n>\n> I\'m concerned about a recent posting about WBT/SIL. I thought they\'d\n>pretty much been denounced as a right-wing organization involved in\n>ideological manipulation and cultural interference, including Vietnam\n>and South America. A commission from Mexican Academia denounced them in\n>1979 as " a covert political and ideological institution used by the\n>U.S. govt as an instrument of control, regulation, penetration, espionage and\n>repression."\n\nI have personally know quite of few of the Wycliffe Bible Translators.\nAs an organization their fundamental purpose is to translate the scriptures\ninto the native languages which in terms usual means learning it and \ndeveloping a written language (along with teaching the natives to read).\nIt is not associated with the U.S. govt. at all. Many governments\nwant the help of the translators. To the best of my knowledge the \nMexican government now encourages them to come. Their idea is not\ncultural interference but the presentation of the Good News.\n\nTo understand more about what they do, I suggest you read some of the books\n(autobiographical and biographical) about some of the translators. One\nthat stands out in my mind as an excellent is called "Peace Child."\nThis would give a true picture of what their mission is.\n\n> My concern is that this group may be seen as acceptable and even\n>praiseworthy by readers of soc.religion.christian. It\'s important that\n>Christians don\'t immediately accept every "Christian" organization as\n>automatically above reproach.\n>\n> mp\nI agree with this statement, but we cannot also accept what others\nsay without looking into the issues. That would be the same as taking \nSuddan\'s discussion about the CIA, etc. as being true. We must look\nat both sides.\n\nCathy Bareiss\n',
" zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!wupost!uunet!olivea!sgigate!odin!fido!solntze.wpd.sgi.com!livesey\nSubject: Re: <Political Atheists?\nFrom: livesey@solntze.wpd.sgi.com (Jon Livesey)\n <1993Mar31.230523.13892@blaze.cs.jhu.edu> <11705@vice.ICO.TEK.COM> <1pic4lINNrau@gap.caltech.edu>\nOrganization: sgi\nNNTP-Posting-Host: solntze.wpd.sgi.com\nLines: 15\n\nIn article <1pic4lINNrau@gap.caltech.edu>, keith@cco.caltech.edu (Keith Allan Schneider) writes:\n|> bobbe@vice.ICO.TEK.COM (Robert Beauchaine) writes:\n|> \n|> >My personal objection is that I find capital punishment to be\n|> >cruel and unusual punishment under all circumstances.\n|> \n|> It can be painless, so it isn't cruel. And, it has occurred frequently\n|> since the dawn of time, so it is hardly unusual.\n\nKoff! You mean that as long as I put you to sleep first,\nI can kill you without being cruel?\n\nThis changes everything.\n\njon.\n",
'From: raymaker@bcm.tmc.edu (Mark Raymaker)\nSubject: graphics driver standards\nOrganization: Baylor College of Medicine, Houston, Tx\nLines: 21\nNNTP-Posting-Host: bcm.tmc.edu\nKeywords: graphics,standards\n\nI have a researcher who collecting electical impulses from\nthe human heart through a complex Analog to Digital system\nhe has designed and inputting this information into his EISA\nbus HP Vectra Computer running DOS and the Phar Lap DOS extender. \n\nHe want to purchase a very high-performance video card for\n3-D modeling. He is aware of a company called Matrox but\nhe is concerned about getting married to a company and their\nvideo routine library. He would hope some more flexibility:\nto choose between several card manufacturers with a standard\nvideo driver. He would like to write more generic code- \ncode that could be easily moved to other cards or computer operating\nsystems in the future. Is there any hope?\nAny information would be greatly appreciated-\nPlease, if possible, respond directly to internet mail \nto raymaker@bcm.tmc.edu\n\nThanks\n\n\n\n',
'From: bmdelane@quads.uchicago.edu (brian manning delaney)\nSubject: Re: diet for Crohn\'s (IBD)\nReply-To: bmdelane@midway.uchicago.edu\nOrganization: University of Chicago\nLines: 27\n\nOne thing that I haven\'t seen in this thread is a discussion of the\nrelation between IBD inflammation and the profile of ingested fatty\nacids (FAs).\n\nI was diagnosed last May w/Crohn\'s of the terminal ileum. When I got\nout of the hospital I read up on it a bit, and came across several\nstudies investigating the role of EPA (an essentially FA) in reducing\ninflammation. The evidence was mixed. [Many of these studies are\ndiscussed in "Inflammatory Bowel Disease," MacDermott, Stenson. 1992.]\n\nBut if I recall correctly, there were some methodological bones to be\npicked with the studies (both the ones w/pos. and w/neg. results). In\nthe studies patients were given EPA (a few grams/day for most of the\nstudies), but, if I recall correctly, there was no restriction of the\n_other_ FAs that the patients could consume. From the informed\nlayperson\'s perspective, this seems mistaken. If lots of n-6 FAs are\nconsumed along with the EPA, then the ratio of "bad" prostanoid\nproducts to "good" prostanoid products could still be fairly "bad."\nIsn\'t this ratio the issue?\n\nWhat\'s the view of the gastro. community on EPA these days? EPA\nsupplements, along with a fairly severe restriction of other FAs\nappear to have helped me significantly (though it could just be the\nlow absolute amount of fat I eat -- 8-10% calories).\n\n-Brian <bmdelane@midway.uchicago.edu>\n\n',
"From: tarl@sw.stratus.com (Tarl Neustaedter)\nSubject: Re: Krillean Photography\nOrganization: Stratus Computer, Inc.\nLines: 14\nDistribution: world\nNNTP-Posting-Host: coyoacan.sw.stratus.com\n\nIn article <1993Apr19.205615.1013@unlv.edu>, todamhyp@charles.unlv.edu (Brian M. Huey) writes:\n> I think that's the correct spelling..\n\nThe proper spelling is Kirlian. It was an effect discoverd by\nS. Kirlian, a soviet film developer in 1939.\n\nAs I recall, the coronas visible are ascribed to static discharges\nand chemical reactions between the organic material and the silver\nhalides in the films.\n\n-- \n Tarl Neustaedter Stratus Computer\n \t tarl@sw.stratus.com Marlboro, Mass.\nDisclaimer: My employer is not responsible for my opinions.\n",
"From: Valentin E. Vulihman <vulih@ipmce.su>\nSubject: Attractive drawing on the sphere\nLines: 23\nReply-To: vulih@ipmce.su\nOrganization: Inst. of Prec. Mech. & Comp. Equip., Moscow, Russia\n\n\n\t S P H E R I C A L D E S I G N I N G\n\n I have made an attractive program on AT-computer for drawing\n on the sphere and pasting it of paper. For children, artists\n and education. I can send an example to alt.source.wanted, on\n which you can see the rotation of the sphere, if you are\n interested. Children can design tesselations of the many\n famous regular polyhedra without serious difficaltis, and\n print patterns to paste their spherical models. Moscow, tel.\n 280-53-53, after 21 o'clock, or E-mail, Valentin Vulihman.\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n",
'From: mayne@ds3.scri.fsu.edu (Bill Mayne)\nSubject: Re: Ancient Books\nOrganization: Supercomputer Computations Research Institute\nLines: 25\n\nIn article <Apr.13.00.09.02.1993.28445@athos.rutgers.edu> miner@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu writes:\n>[Any former atheists converted by argument?}\n>This is an excellent question and I\'ll be anxious to see if there are\n>any such cases. I doubt it. In the medieval period (esp. 10th-cent.\n>when Aquinas flourished) argument was a useful tool because everyone\n>"knew the rules." Today, when you can\'t count on people knowing even\n>the basics of logic or seeing through rhetoric, a good argument is\n>often indistinguishable from a poor one.\n\nThe last sentence is ironic, since so many readers of\nsoc.religion.christian seem to not be embarrassed by apologists such as\nJosh McDowell and C.S. Lewis. The above also expresses a rather odd sense\nof history. What makes you think the masses in Aquinas\' day, who were\nmostly illiterate, knew any more about rhetoric and logic than most people\ntoday? If writings from the period seem elevated consider that only the\ncream of the crop, so to speak, could read and write. If everyone in\nthe medieval period "knew the rules" it was a matter of uncritically\naccepting what they were told.\n\nBill Mayne\n\n[This may be unfair to Lewis. The most prominent fallacy attributed\nto him is the "liar, lunatic, and lord". As quoted by many\nChristians, this is a logical fallacy. In its original context, it\nwas not. --clh]\n',
"From: kardank@ERE.UMontreal.CA (Kardan Kaveh)\nSubject: Re: Newsgroup Split\nOrganization: Universite de Montreal\nLines: 8\n\nI haven't been following this thread, so appologies if this has already been\nmentioned, but how about\n\n\tcomp.graphics.3d\n\n-- \nKaveh Kardan\nkardank@ERE.UMontreal.CA\n",
'From: dpw@sei.cmu.edu (David Wood)\nSubject: Re: And Another THing:\nIn-Reply-To: mangoe@cs.umd.edu\'s message of 3 Apr 93 00:46:07 GMT\nOrganization: Software Engineering Institute\nLines: 39\n\n\n\nmangoe@cs.umd.edu (Charley Wingate) writes:\n\n>Keith Ryan writes:\n>>\n>>You will ignore any criticism of your logic, or any possible incongruenties\n>>in your stance? You will not answer any questions on the validity of any\n>>opinion and/or facts you state?\n\n>When I have to start saying "that\'s not what I said", and the response is\n>"did so!", there\'s no reason to continue. If someone is not going to argue\n>with MY version of MY position, then they cannot be argued with.\n\nBut of course YOUR version of YOUR position has been included in the\nCharley Challenges, so your claim above is a flat-out lie. Further,\nonly last week you claimed that you "might not" answer the Challenges\nbecause you were turned off by "included text". So which is it, do\nyou want your context included in my articles or not? Come to think\nof it, this contradiction has the makings of a new entry in the next\nChallenges post.\n\nBy the way, I\'ve kept every bloody thing that you\'ve written related\nto this thread, and will be only too pleased to re-post any of it to\nback my position. You seem to have forgotten that you leave an\nelectronic paper trail on the net.\n\n>>This is the usual theist approach. No matter how many times a certain\n>>argument has been disproven, shown to be non-applicable or non-sequitur;\n>>they keep cropping up- time after time.\n\n>Speaking of non-sequiturs, this has little to do with what I just said. And\n>have some sauce for the goose: some of the "disproof" is fallacies repeated\n>over and over (such as the "law of nature" argument someone posted recently).\n\nNow, now, let\'s not change the subject. Wouldn\'t it be best to finish\nup the thread in question before you begin new ones?\n\n--Dave Wood\n',
'From: kmr4@po.CWRU.edu (Keith M. Ryan)\nSubject: Re: "Cruel" (was Re: <Political Atheists?)\nOrganization: Case Western Reserve University\nLines: 33\nNNTP-Posting-Host: b64635.student.cwru.edu\n\nIn article <1ql8mdINN674@gap.caltech.edu> keith@cco.caltech.edu (Keith Allan Schneider) writes:\n\n>>>This whole thread started because of a discussion about whether\n>>>or not the death penalty constituted cruel punishment, which is forbidden\n>>>by the US Constitution.\n>>Yes, but they didn\'t say what they meant by "cruel", which is why\n>>a) you have the Supreme Court, and b) it makes no sense to refer\n>>to the Constitution, which is quite silent on the meaning of the\n>>word "cruel".\n>\n>They spent quite a bit of time on the wording of the Constitution. They\n>picked words whose meanings implied the intent. We have already looked\n>in the dictionary to define the word. Isn\'t this sufficient?\n\n\tWe only need to ask the question: what did the founding fathers \nconsider cruel and unusual punishment?\n\n\tHanging? Hanging there slowing being strangled would be very \npainful, both physically and psychologicall, I imagine.\n\n\tFiring squad ? [ note: not a clean way to die back in those \ndays ], etc. \n\n\tAll would be considered cruel under your definition.\n\tAll were allowed under the constitution by the founding fathers.\n\n--- \n\n " Whatever promises that have been made can than be broken. "\n\n John Laws, a man without the honor to keep his given word.\n\n\n',
'From: David.Bernard@central.sun.com (Dave Bernard)\nSubject: Re: Question about Virgin Mary\nReply-To: David.Bernard@central.sun.com\nOrganization: Sun Microsystems\nLines: 9\n\nIn article 28782@athos.rutgers.edu, revdak@netcom.com (D. Andrew Kille) writes:\n>Just an observation- although the bodily assumption has no basis in\n>the Bible, Carl Jung declared it to be one of the most important pronouncements\n>of the church in recent years, in that it implied the inclusion of the \n>feminine into the Godhead.\n\n\n\nWhat did Jung mean by a "Godhead?"\n',
'From: trajan@cwis.unomaha.edu (Stephen McIntyre)\nSubject: Theists And Objectivity\nOrganization: University of Nebraska at Omaha\nLines: 90\n\nCan a theist be truly objective? Can he be impartial\n when questioning the truth of his scriptures, or\n will he assume the superstition of his parents\n when questioning? \n\nI\'ve often found it to be the case that the theist\n will stick to some kind of superstition when\n wondering about God and his scriptures. I\'ve\n seen it in the Christian, the Jew, the Muslim,\n and the other theists alike. All assume that\n their mothers and fathers were right in the\n aspect that a god exists, and with that belief\n search for their god.\n \nOccasionally, the theist may switch religions or\n aspects of the same religion, but overall the\n majority keep to the belief that some "Creator"\n was behind the universe\'s existence. I\'ve\n known Muslims who were once Christians and vice\n versa, I\'ve known Christians who were once\n Jewish and vice versa, and I\'ve even known\n Christians who become Hindu. Yet, throughout\n their transition from one faith to another,\n they\'ve kept this belief in some form of higher\n "being." Why?\n \nIt usually all has to do with how the child is\n brought up. From the time he is born, the\n theist is brought up with the notion of the\n "truth" of some kind of scripture-- the Bible,\n the Torah, the Qur\'an, & etc. He is told\n of this wondrous God who wrote (or inspired)\n the scripture, of the prophets talked about in\n the scripture, of the miracles performed, & etc.\n He is also told that to question this (as\n children are apt to do) is a sin, a crime\n against God, and to lose belief in the scrip-\n ture\'s truth is to damn one\'s soul to Hell.\n Thus, by the time he is able to read the\n scripture for himself, the belief in its "truth"\n is so ingrained in his mind it all seems a\n matter of course.\n \nBut it doesn\'t stop there. Once the child is able\n to read for himself, there is an endeavor to\n inculcate the child the "right" readings of\n scripture, to concentrate more on the pleasant\n readings, to gloss over the worse ones, and to\n explain away the unexplainable with "mystery."\n Circular arguments, "self-evdent" facts and\n "truths," unreasoning belief, and fear of\n hell is the meat of religion the child must eat\n of every day. To doubt, of course, means wrath\n of some sort, and the child must learn to put\n away his brain when the matter concerns God.\n All of this has some considerable effect on the\n child, so that when he becomes an adult, the \n superstitions he\'s been taught are nearly\n impossible to remove.\n \nAll of this leads me to ask whether the theist can\n truly be objective when questioning God, Hell,\n Heaven, the angels, souls, and all of the rest.\n Can he, for a moment, put aside this notion that\n God *does* exist and look at everything from\n a unbiased point of view? Obviously, most\n theists can somewhat, especially when presented\n with "mythical gods" (Homeric, Roman, Egyptian,\n & etc.). But can they put aside the assumption\n of God\'s existence and question it impartially?\n \nStephen\n\n _/_/_/_/ _/_/_/_/ _/ _/ * Atheist\n _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ * Libertarian\n _/_/_/_/ _/_/_/_/ _/ _/ _/ * Pro-individuality\n _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ * Pro-responsibility\n_/_/_/_/ _/ _/ _/ _/ Jr. * and all that jazz...\n\n-- \n\n[This is ad hominem attack of the most basic kind. None of their\nstatements matter -- they believe the way they do because they were\nbrought up that way. Of course there are atheists who have become\ntheists and theists who have become atheists. Rather more of the\nlatter, which is not surprising given the statistics. It\'s hard to\nsee how one could possibly answer a posting of this sort, since any\nanswer could immediately be assumed to be just part of the\nbrainwashing. That is, how can anyone possibly show that they aren\'t\nbiased? --clh]\n',
"Subject: AutoCAD -> TIFF Can it be done????\nFrom: cvadrmaz@vmsb.is.csupomona.edu\nOrganization: California State Polytechnic University, Pomona\nNntp-Posting-Host: acvax2\nNntp-Posting-User: cvadrmaz\nLines: 9\n\nHello, I realize that this might be a FAQ but I have to ask since I don't get a\nchange to read this newsgroup very often. Anyways for my senior project I need\nto convert an AutoCad file to a TIFF file. Please I don't need anyone telling\nme that the AutoCAD file is a vector file and the TIFF is a bit map since I\nhave heard that about 100 times already I would just like to know if anyone\nknows how to do this or at least point me to the right direction.\n\nAny help greatly appreciated,\nMatt Georgy\n",
'From: nfotis@ntua.gr (Nick C. Fotis)\nSubject: (17 Apr 93) Computer Graphics Resource Listing : WEEKLY [part 3/3]\nLines: 1529\nReply-To: nfotis@theseas.ntua.gr (Nick (Nikolaos) Fotis)\nOrganization: National Technical Univ. of Athens\n\nArchive-name: graphics/resources-list/part3\nLast-modified: 1993/04/17\n\n\nComputer Graphics Resource Listing : WEEKLY POSTING [ PART 3/3 ]\n===================================================\nLast Change : 17 April 1993\n\n\n11. Scene generators/geographical data/Maps/Data files\n======================================================\n\nDEMs (Digital Elevation Models)\n-------------------------------\n DEMs (Digital Elevation Models) as well as other cartographic data\n [huge] is available from spectrum.xerox.com [192.70.225.78], /pub/map.\n\n Contact:\n Lee Moore -- Webster Research Center, Xerox Corp. --\n Voice: +1 (716) 422 2496\n Arpa, Internet: Moore.Wbst128@Xerox.Com\n[ Check also on ncgia.ucsb.edu (128.111.254.105), /pub/dems -- nfotis ]\n\n Many of these files are also available on CD-ROM selled by USGS:\n "1:2,000,000 scale Digital Line Graph (DLG) Data". Contains datas\n for all 50 states. Price is about $28, call to or visit in offices\n in Menlo Park, in Reston, Virginia (800-USA-MAPS).\n\n The Data User Services Division of the Bureau of the Census also has\n data on CD-ROM (TSO standard format) that is derived from USGS\n 1:100,000 map data. Call (301) 763-4100 for more info or they have\n a BBS at (301) 763-1568.\n\n[ From Dr.Dobbs #198 March 1993: ]\n\n "The U.S. Defense Mapping Agency, in cooperation with their counterpart\nagencies in CANADA, the U.K., and Australia, have released the Digital Chart\nof the World (DCW). This chart consists of over 1.5 gigabytes of reasonable\nquality vector data distributed on four CD-ROMS. .... includes coastlines,\nrivers, roads, railrays, airports,cities, towns, spot elevations, and depths,\nand over 100,000 place names."\n\nIt is ISO9660 compatible and only $200.00 available from:\n\nU.S. Geological Survey\nP.O. Box 25286\nDenver Federal Center\nDenver, CO 80225\n\nDigital Distribution Services\nEnergy, Mines, and Resources Canada\n615 Booth Street\nOttawa, ON\nK1A 0E9 Canada\n\nDirector General of Military Survey\n(Survey 3)\nElmwood Avenue\nFeltham, Middlesex\nTW13 7AH United Kingdom\n\nDirector of Survey, Australian Army\nDepartment of Defense\nCampbell Park Offices (CP2-4-24)\nCampbell ACT 2601 Australia\n\n\nFractal Landscape Generators\n----------------------------\n\nPublic Domain:\n\n Many people have written fractal landscape generators. for example\n for the Mac some of these generators were written by\n pdbourke@ccu1.aukuni.ac.nz (Paul D. Bourke).\n Many of the programs are available from the FTP sites and mail\n archive servers. Check with Archie.\n\nCommercial:\n\n Vista Pro 3.0 for the Amiga from Virtual Reality Labs -- list price\n is about $100. Their address is:\n\tVRL\n\t2341 Ganador court\n\tSan Luis Obispo,\n\tCA 93401\n\tTelephone or FAX (805) 545-8515\n\n Scenery Animator (also for the Amiga) is of the same caliber with Vista Pro 2.\n Check with:\n\tNatural Graphics\n\tP.O. Box 1963\n\tRaklin, CA 95677\n\tPhone (916) 624-1436\n\n Don\'t forget to ask about companion programs and data disks/tapes.\n\n Vista Pro 3 has been ported to the PCs.\n\n\nCIA World Map II\n----------------\n[ NOTE: this database is quite out of date, and not topologically structured.\n If you need a standard for world cartographic data, wait for the\n Digital Chart of the World. This 1:1M database has been produced from\n the Defense Mapping Agency\'s ONCs and will be available, together with\n searching and viewing software, on a number of CD-ROMs later this summer. ]\n\n Check into HANAUMA.STANFORD.EDU and UCSD.EDU (see ftp list above)\n The CIA database consists of coastlines, rivers and political boundaries\n in the form of line strokes. Also on hanauma.stanford.edu is a 720x360\n array of elevation data, containing one ieee floating point number for\n every half degree longitude and latitude.\n \n A program for decoding the database, mfil, can be found on the machine\n pi1.arc.umn.edu (137.66.130.11).\n There\'s another program, which reads a compressed CIA Data Bank file and\n builds a PHIGS hierachical structure. It uses a PHIGS extension known as\n polyline sets for performance, but you can use regular polylines. Ask\n Joe Stewart <joes@lpi.liant.com>.\n The raw data at Stanford require the vplot package to be able to view it.\n (was posted in comp.sources.unix). To be more exact, you\'ll have to\n compile just the libvplot routines, not the whole package.\n\nNCAR data\n---------\n NCAR (National Center for Atmospheric Research) has many types of\n terrain data, ranging from elevation datasets at\n various resolutions, to information about soil types, vegetation, etc.\n This data is not free -- they charge from $40 to $90 or more, depending\n on the data volume and media (exabyte tape, 3480 cartridge, 9-track tape,\n IBM PC floppy, and FTP transfer are all available). Their data archive\n is mostly research oriented, not hobbyist oriented. For more information,\n email to ilana@ncar.ucar.edu.\n\nUNC data tapes with voxel data\n--------------\n There are 2 "public domain" tapes with data for the comparison and\n testing of various volume rendering algorithms (mainly MRI and CT\n scans). These tapes are distributed by the SoftLab of UNC @ Chapel Hill.\n (softlab@cs.unc.edu)\n\n The data sets (volume I and II) are also available via anonymous FTP from\n omicron.cs.unc.edu [128.109.136.159] in pub/softlab/CHVRTD\n\nNASA\n----\n Many US agencies such as NASA publish CD-ROMs with many altimetry data\n from various space missions, eg. Viking for Mars, Magellan for Venus,\n etc. Especially for NASA, I would suggest to call the following\n address for more info:\n\n National Space Science Date Center\n Goddard Space Flight Center\n Greenbelt, Maryland 20771\n Telephone: (301) 286-6695\n Email address: request@nssdca.gsfc.nasa.gov\n\n The data catalog (*not* the data itself) is available online.\n Internet users can telnet to nssdca.gsfc.nasa.gov (128.183.10.4) and log\n in as \'NODIS\' (no password).\n\n You can also dial in at (301)-286-9000 (300, 1200, or 2400 baud, 8 bits,\n no parity, one stop). At the "Enter Number:" prompt, enter MD and\n carriage return. When the system responds "Call Complete," enter a few\n more carriage returns to get the "Username:" and log in as \'NODIS\' (no\n password).\n\n NSSDCA is also an anonymous FTP site, but no comprehensive list of\n what\'s there is available at present.\n\nEarth Sciences Data\n-------------------\n\n There\'s a listing of anonymous FTP sites for earth science data, including\n imagery. This listing is called "Earth Sciences Resources on Internet",\n and you can get it via anonymous FTP from csn.org [128.138.213.21]\n in the directory COGS under the name "internet.resources.earth.sci"\n\n Some sites include:\n aurelie.soest.hawaii.edu [128.171.151.121]: pub/avhrr/images - AVHRR images\n ames.arc.nasa.gov [128.102.18.3]: pub/SPACE/CDROM - images from\n Magellan and Viking missions etc.\n pub/SPACE/Index contains a listing of files available in the whole\n archive (the index is about 200K by itself). There\'s also an\n e-mail server for the people without Internet access: send a letter\n to archive-server@ames.arc.nasa.gov (or ames!archive-server). In the\n subject of your letter (or in the body), use commands like:\n\n send SPACE Index\n send SPACE SHUTTLE/ss01.23.91\n\n (Capitalization is important! Only text files are handled by the\n email server at present)\n\n vab02.larc.nasa.gov [128.155.23.47]: pub/gifs/misc/landsat -\n\tLandsat photos in GIF and JPEG format\n[ It was shut down - nfotis; anyone has a copy of this archive?? ]\n\nOthers\n------\n Daily values of river discharge, streamflow, and daily weather data is\n available from EarthInfo, 5541 Central Ave., Boulder CO 80301. These\n disks are expensive, around $500, but there are quantity discounts.\n (303) 938-1788.\n\n Check vmd.cso.uiuc.edu [128.174.5.98], the wx directory carries\n data regarding surface analysis, weather radar, and sat view pics in\n GIF format (updated hourly)\n\n pioneer.unm.edu [129.24.9.217] is the Space and Planetary Image Facility\n (located on the University of New Mexico campus) FTP server. It provides\n Anonymous FTP access to >150 CD-ROMS with data/images.\n\n A disk with earthquake data, topography, gravity, geopolitical info\n is available from NGDC (National Geophysical Data Center), 325 Broadway,\n Boulder, CO 80303. (303) 497-6958.\n\n EOSAT (at least in the US) now sells Landsat MSS data older than two years\n old for $200 per scene, and they have been talking about a similar deal\n for Landsat TM data. The MSS data are 4 bands, 80 meter resolution.\n\n Check out anonymous FTP to ftp.ncsa.uiuc.edu in\n UNIX/PolyView/alpha-shape for a tool that creates convex hulls\n alpha-shapes (a generalization of the convex hull) from 3D point sets.\n\n The GRIPS II (Gov. Raster Image Processing Software) CD-ROM\n is available from CD-ROM Inc. at 1-800-821-5245 for $49.\n Code for viewing ADRG (Arc Digitised Raster Graphics) files is\n available on the GRIPS II CD-ROM. The U.S. Army Engineer \n Topographic Labs (Juan Perez) code is also available via FTP\n ( adrg.zip archive in spectrum.xerox.com )\n\nNRCC range data\n---------------\n Rioux M., Cournoyer L. "The NRCC Three-Dimensional Image Data Files",\n Tech. Report, CNRC 29077, National Research Council Canada,\n Ottawa, Canada, 1988\n [ From what I understand, these data are from a laser range finder,\n and you can a copy for research purposes ]\n\n==========================================================================\n\n12. 3D scanners - Digitized 3D Data\n===================================\n\na. Cyberware Labs, Monterey, CA, manufactures a 3D color laser digitizer\n which can be used to model parts of, or a complete, human body.\n They run a service bureau also, so they can digitize models for you.\n\n Address:\n Cyberware Labs, Inc\n 8 Harris Ct, Suite 3D\n Monterey, CA 93940\n Phone: (408)373-1441, Fax: (408)373-3582\n\nb. Polhemus makes a 6D input device (actually a couple of models)\n that senses position (3D) and *orientation* (+3D) based on electromagnetic\n field interference. This equipment is also incorporated in the\n VPL Dataglove.\n This hardware is also called ISOTRACK, from Keiser Aerospace.\n\nAscension Technology makes a similar 3D input device.\nThere is a company, Applied Sciences(?), that makes a 3D input\ndevice (position only) based on speed of sound triangulation.\n\nc. A company that specializes in digitizing is Viewpoint. You can ask\n for Viewpoint\'s _free_ 100 page catalog full of ready to \n ship datasets from categories such as cars, anatomy, aircraft,sports,\n boats, trains, animals and others. Though these objects are\n quite expensive, the cataloge is nevertheless of interest for it\n has pictures of all the available objects in wireframe , polygon mesh.\n\n Contact:\n\n Viewpoint,\n 870 West Center,\n Orem, Utah 84057\n ph# 801-224-2222\n fax# 801-224-2272\n 1-800-DATASET\n\n------\n\n Some addresses for companies that make digitizers:\n\n Ascension Technology\n Bird, Flock of Birds, Big Bird: 6d trackers\n P.O. Box 527,\n Burlington, VT 05402\n Phone: (802) 655-7879, Fax: (802) 655-5904\n\n Polhemus Incorporated\n Digitizer: 6d trackers\n P.O. Box 560, Hercules Dr.\n Colchester, Vt. 05446\n Tel: (802) 655-3159\n\n Logitech Inc.\n Red Baron, ultrasonic 6D mouse\n 6506 Kaiser Dr.\n Freemont, CA 94555\n Tel: (415) 795-8500w\n\n Shooting Star Technology\n Mechanical Headtracker\n 1921 Holdom Ave.\n Burnaby, B.C. Canada V5B 3W4\n Tel: (604) 298-8574\n Fax: (604) 298-8580\n\n Spaceball Technologies, Inc.\n Spaceball: 6d stationary input device\n 600 Suffolk Street\n Lowell, MA, 01854\n Tel: (508) 970-0330 \n Fax: (508) 970-0199\n Tel in Mountain View: (415) 966-8123 \n\n Transfinite Systems \n Gold Brick: PowerGlove for Macintosh\n P.O. Box N\n MIT Branch Post Office\n Cambridge, MA 02139-0903\n Tel: (617) 969-9570\n email: D2002@AppleLink.Apple.com\n\n VPL Research, Inc.\n EyePhone: head-mounted display\n DataGlove: glove/hand input device\n VPL Research Inc.\n 950 Tower Lane\n 14th Floor\n Foster City, CA 94404\n Tel: (415) 312-0200\n Fax: (415) 312-9356\n\n SimGraphics Engineering\n Flying Mouse: 6d input device\n 1137 Huntington Rd. Suite A-1\n South Pasadena, CA 91030-4563\n (213) 255-0900\n\n========================================================================\n\n13. Background imagery/textures/datafiles\n=========================================\n\n First, check in the FTP places that are mentioned in the FAQ or in the FTP\nlist above.\n\n24-bit scanning:\n----------------\n Get a good 24-bit scanner, like Epson\'s. Suggested is an SCSI port for\n speed. Eric Haines had a suggestion in RT News, Volume 4, #3 :\n scan textures for wallpapers and floor coverings, etc. from doll\n house supplies.\n So you have a rather cheap way to scan patterns that don\'t have\n scaling troubles associated with real materials and scanning area.\n\nBooks with textures:\n--------------------\n Find some houses/books/magazines that carry photographic material.\n Educorp, 1-619-536-9999, sells CD-ROMS with various imagery - also\n a wide variety of stock art is available.\n Stock art from big-name stock art houses, such as Comstock,\n UNIPHOTO, and Metro Image Base, is available.\n\n In Italy, there\'s a company called Belvedere that makes such books\n for the purpose of clipping their pages for inclusion in your\n graphics work. Their address is:\n\tEdition Belvedere Co. Ltd.,\n\t00196 Rome Italy,\n\tPiazzale Flaminio, 19\n\tTel. (06) 360-44-88, Fax (06) 360-29-60\n\nTexture Libraries:\n------------------\na. Mannikin Sceptre Graphics announced TexTiles, a set of 256x256 24-bit\n textures. Initial shipments in 24-bit IFF (for Amigas), soon in 24-bit\n TIFF format. Algorithmically built for tiled surfaces. SRP is $40 / volume\n (each volume = 40 images @ 10 disks). Demo disks for $5 are available.\n\n Contact:\n Mannikin Sceptre Graphics\n 1600 Indiana Ave.\n Winter Park, FL 32789\n Phone: (407) 384-9484\n FAX: (407) 647-7242\n\nb. ESSENCE is a library of 65 (sixty-five) new algoritmic textures for Imagine\n by Impulse, Inc. These textures are FULLY compatible with the floating point\n versions of Imagine 2.0, Imagine 1.1, and even Turbo Silver.\n Written by Steve Worley.\n\n For more info contact:\n Essence Info\n Apex Software Publishing\n 405 El Camino Real Suite 121\n Menlo Park CA 94025 USA\n\n[ What about Texture City ?? ]\n\n==========================================================================\n\n14. Introduction to rendering algorithms\n========================================\n\na. Ray-Tracing:\n---------------\n\n I assume you have a general understanding of Computer Graphics. No? Then read\n some of the books that the FAQ contains. For Ray-Tracing, I would\n suggest:\n An Introduction to Ray Tracing, Andrew Glassner (ed.), Academic Press\n 1989, ISBN 0-12-286160-4\n Note that I have not read the book, but I feel that you can\'t be wrong\n using his book. An errata list was posted in comp.graphics by Eric Haines\n (erich@eye.com)\n\nThere\'s a more concise reference also:\n\n Roman Kuchkuda , UNC @ Chapel Hill: "An Introduction to Ray Tracing", in\n "Theoretical Foundations for Computer Graphics and CAD", ed. R.A.E.Earnshaw,\n NATO AS, Vol. F-40., pp. 1039-1060. Printed by Springer-Verlag, 1988.\n\nIt contains code for a small, but fundamentally complete ray-tracer.\n\nb. Z-buffer (depth-buffer)\n--------------------------\n\nA good reference is:\n\n _Procedural Elements for Computer Graphics_, David F. Rogers,\n McGraw-Hill, New York, 1985, pages 265-272 and 280-284.\n\nc. Others:\n----------\n???\n[ More info is needed -- nfotis ]\n\n========================================================================\n\n15. Where can I find the geometric data for the:\n================================================\n\na. Teapot ?\n-----------\n\n"Displays on Display" column of IEEE CG&A Jan \'87 has the whole\nstory about origin of the Martin Newell\'s teapot. The article also has\nthe bezier patch model and a Pascal program to display the wireframe\nmodel of the teapot.\n\nIEEE CG&A Sep \'87 in Jim Blinn\'s column "Jim Blinn\'s Corner" describes\nan another way to model the teapot; Bezier curves with rotations for\nexample are used.\n\nThe OFF and SPD packages have these objects, so you\'re advised to get\nthem to avoid typing the data yourself. The OFF data is triangles at\na specific resolution (around 8x8[x4 triangles] meshing per patch).\nThe SPD package provides the spline patch descriptions and performs a\ntessellation at any specified resolution.\n\nb. Space Shuttle ?\n------------------\n\nTolis Lerios <tolis@nova.stanford.edu> has built a list of Space Shuttle\ndatafiles. Here\'s a summary (From his sci.space list):\n\nmodel1:\nA modified version of the newsgroup model (model2)\n\n406 vertices (296 useful, i.e. referred to in the polygon descriptions.)\n389 polygons (233 3-vertex, 146 4-vertex, 7 5-vertex, 3 6-vertex).\nPayload doors non-existent.\nUnits: unknown.\n\nSimon Marshall (S.Marshall@sequent.cc.hull.ac.uk) has a copy. He\nsaid there is no proprietary information associated with it.\n\nmodel2:\nThe newsgroup model, in OFF format. You can find it in\n\ngondwana.ecr.mu.oz.au , file pub/off/objects/shuttle.geo\nhanauma.stanford.edu , /pub/graphics/Comp.graphics/objects/shuttle.data\n\nmodel3:\nThe triangles\' model.\n\nThis model is stored in several files, each defining portions of the model.\n\nGreg Henderson (henders@infonode.ingr.com) has a copy. He did\nnot mention any restriction on the model\'s distribution.\n\nmodel4:\nThe NASA model.\n\nThe file starts off with a header line containing three real numbers,\ndefining the offsets used by Lockheed in their simulations:\n\n<x offset> <y offset> <z offset>\n\nFrom then on, the file consists of a sequence of polygon descriptions\n\n3473 vertices.\n2748 polygons (407 3-vertex, 2268 4-vertex, 33 5-vertex, 14 6-vertex,\n 10 7-vertex, 8 8-vertex, 8 12-vertex, 2 13-vertex, 2 15-vertex,\n 17 16-vertex, 2 17-vertex, 2 18-vertex, 3 19-vertex, 8 24-vertex).\nPayload doors closed.\nUnits: inches.\n\nJon Berndt (jon@l14h11.jsc.nasa.gov) seems to be responsible for the model\nProprietary info: unknown\n\nmodel5:\nThe old shuttle model.\n\nThe file consists of a sequence of polygon descriptions.\n\n104 vertices.\n452 polygons (11 3-vertex, 41 4-vertex).\nPayload doors open.\nUnits: meters.\n\nWe have been using this model at STAR Labs, Stanford University, for\nsome years now. Contact me (tolis@nova.stanford.edu) or my supervisor\nScott Williams (scott@star5.stanford.edu) if you want a copy.\n\n========================================================================\n\n16. Image annotation software\n=============================\n\na. Touchup runs in Sunview and is pretty good. It reads in\n rasterfiles, but even if your image isn\'t normally stored\n in rasterfile format you could use screendump to make it a\n rasterfile.\n\nb. Idraw (part of Stanford\'s InterViews distribution) can handle some\n image formats in addition to being a MacDraw like tool. I\'m not\n sure exactly what they are.\n You can ftp the idraw\'s binary from interviews.stanford.edu.\n\nc. Tgif is another MacDraw like tool that can handle X11 bitmap (xbm)\n and X11 pixmap (xpm) formats. If the image you have is in formats\n other than xbm or xpm, you can get the pbmplus toolkit to convert\n things like gif or even some Macintosh formats to xpm.\n Tgif\'s sources are available in the pub directory on cs.ucla.edu\n (Version 2.12 of tgif at patchlevel 7 plus patch8 and patch9)\n\nd. Use the editimage facility of KHOROS (see below).\n This is just one utility in the overall system- you can essentially do all\n your image processing and macdraw-type graphics using this package.\n\ne. You might be able to get by with PBMPlus. pbmtext gives you text output\n bitmaps which can be overlaid on top of your image.\n\nf. \'ice\' requires Sun hardware running OpenWindows 3.It\'s a PostScript-based\n graphical editor,and it\'s available for anonymous ftp from Internet host\n eo.soest.hawaii.edu (128.171.151.12). Requires Sun C++ 2.0 and\n two other locally developed packages, the LXT library (an Xlib-based\n toolkit) and a small C++ class library. All files (pub/ice.tar.Z,\n pub/lxt.tar.Z and pub/ldgoc++.tar.Z) are available in compressed\n tar format. pub/ice.tar.Z contains a README that gives installation\n instructions, as well as an extensive man page (ice.1).\n A statically-linked compressed executable pub/ice-sun4.Z for\n SPARC systems is also available for ftp.\n\n All software is the property of Columbia University and may not\n be redistributed without permission.\n\n ice means Image Composition Environment and it\'s an imaging tool that\n allows raster images to be combined with a wide variety of\n PostScript annotations in WYSIWYG fashion via X11 imaging\n routines and NeWS PostScript rasterizing.\n\ng. Use ImageMagick to annotate an image from your X server. Pick the \n position of your text with the cursor and choose your font and pen \n color from a pull-down menu. ImageMagick can read and write many\n of the more popular image formats. ImageMagick is available as\n export.lcs.mit.edu: contrib/ImageMagick.tar.Z or at your nearest\n X11 archive.\n\n========================================================================\n\n17. Scientific visualization stuff\n==================================\n\nX Data Slice (xds)\n-------------------\n Bundled with the X11 distribution from MIT,\n in the contrib directory. Available at ftp.ncsa.uiuc.edu [141.142.20.50]\n (either as a source or binaries for various platforms).\n\nNational Center for Supercomputing Applications (NCSA) Tool Suite\n-----------------------------------------------------------------\n\nPlatforms: Unix Workstations (DEC, IBM, SGI, Sun)\n Apple MacIntosh\n Cray supercomputers\n\nAvailability: Now available. Source code in the public domain.\n FTP from ftp.ncsa.uiuc.edu.\n\nContact: National Center for Supercomputing Applications\n Computing Applications Building\n 605 E. Springfield Ave.\n Champaign, IL 61820\n\nCost: Free (zero dollars).\n\nThe suite includes tools for 2D image and 3D scene analysis and visualization.\nThe code is actively maintained and updated.\n\nSpyglass\n--------\n They sell commercial versions of the NCSA tools. Examples are:\n\n\tSpyglass Dicer (3D volumetric data analysis package)\n\t\tPlatform: Mac\n\n\tSpyglass Transform (2D data analysis package)\n\t\tPlatforms: Mac, SGI, Sun, DEC, HP, IBM\n\n Contact:\n Spyglass, Inc.\n P.O. Box 6388\n Champaign, IL 61826\n (217) 355-6000\n\nKHOROS 1.0 Patch 5\n------------------\n Available via anonymous ftp at pprg.eece.unm.edu (129.24.24.10).\n cd to /pub/khoros to see what is available. It is HUGE (> 100 MB), but good.\n Needs Unix and X11R4. Freely copied (NOT PD), complete with sources\n and docs. Very extensive and at its heart is visual programming.\n Khoros components include a visual programming language, code\n generators for extending the visual language and adding new application\n packages to the system, an interactive user interface editor, an\n interactive image display package, an extensive library of image and\n signal processing routines, and 2D/3D plotting packages.\n\n See comp.soft-sys.khoros on Usenet and the relative FAQ for more info....\n\n Contact:\n\n The Khoros Group\n Room 110 EECE Dept.\n University of New Mexico\n Albuquerque, NM 87131\n\n Email: khoros-request@chama.eece.unm.edu\n\n\nMacPhase\n--------\n Analysis & Visualization Application for the Macintosh.\n Operates on 1D and 2D data arrays. Import/Export several different file\n formats. Several different plotting options such as gray scale,\n color raster, 3D Wire frame, 3D surface, contour, vector, line, and\n combinations. FFTs, filtering, and other math functions, color look up\n editor, array calculator, etc. Shareware, available via anonymous ftp from\n sumex-aim.stanford.edu in the info-mac/app directory.\n For other information contact Doug Norton (e-mail: 74017.461@@compuserve.com)\n\n\nIRIS Explorer\n-------------\n It\'s an application creation system developed by Silicon\n Graphics that provides visualisation and analysis functionality for\n computational scientists, engineers and other scientists. The Explorer\n GUI allows users to build custom applications without having to write\n any, or a minimal amount of, traditonal code. Also, existing code can\n be easily integrated into the Explorer environment. Explorer currently\n is available now on SGI and Cray machines, but will become available on\n other platforms in time. [ Bundled with every new SGI machine, as far as\n I know]\n\n See comp.graphics.explorer or comp.sys.sgi for discussion of the package.\n\n There are also two FTP servers for related stuff, modules etc.:\n\n ftp.epcc.ed.ac.uk [129.215.56.29]\n swedishchef.lerc.nasa.gov [139.88.54.33] - mirror of the UK site\n\napE\n---\n Back in the \'old good days\', you could get apE for nearly free.\n Now has gone commercial and the following vendor supplies it:\n\n TaraVisual Corporation\n 929 Harrison Avenue\n Columbus, Ohio 43215\n Tel: 1-800-458-8731 and (614) 291-2912\n Fax: (614) 291-2867\n\n Cost:\n $895 (plus tax); runtime version with a site-license for a single user\n (at a time), no limit on the number of machines in a cluster.\n $895 includes support/maintenance and upgrades.\n Source code more. Additional user licenses $360.\n\n The name of the package has become apE III (TM).\n Khoros is very similar to apE on philosophy, as are AVS and Explorer.\n\nAVS\n---\nSee also:\n comp.graphics.avs\n\nPlatforms: CONVEX, CRAY, DEC, Evans & Sutherland, HP, IBM, Kubota,\nSet Technologies, SGI, Stardent, SUN, Wavetracer\nAvailability: AVS4 available on all the above:\n For all UNIX workstations.\n\nContact:\n Advanced Visual Systems Inc.\n 300 Fifth Ave.\n Waltham, MA 02154\n\n (617)-890-4300 Telephone\n (617)-890-8287 Fax\n avs@avs.com Email\n\n Advanced Visual Systems Inc. for: CRAY, HP, IBM, SGI, Stardent, SUN\n CONVEX for CONVEX\n Advanced Visual Systems Inc. or CRAY for CRAY\n DEC for DEC\n Evans & Sutherland for Evans & Sutherland\n Advanced Visual Systems Inc. or IBM for IBM\n Kubota Pacific Inc. for Kubota\n Set Technologies for Set Technologies\n Wavetracer for Wavetracer\n\n FTP Site: for modules, data sets, other info:\n\tavs.ncsc.org (128.109.178.23)\n\nWIT\n---\n In a nutshell it\'s a package of the same genre as AVS,Explorer,etc.\n It seems more a image processing system than a generic SciVi system (IMHO)\n Major elements are:\n\n - a visual programming language, which automatically exploits the inherent\n parallelism\n - a code generator which converts the graph to a standalone program\n\n Iconified libraries present a rich set of point, filter, io, transform,\n morphological, segmentation, and measurement operations.\n A flow library allows graphs to employ broadcast, merge,\n synchronization, conditional, and sequencing control strategies.\n\n WIT delivers an object-oriented, distributed, visual programming\n environment which allows users to rapidly design solutions to their\n imaging problems. Users can consolidate both software and hardware\n developments within a complete CAD-like workspace by adding their\n own operators (C functions), objects (data structures), and servers\n (specialized hardware). WIT runs on Sun, HP9000/7xx, SGI and supports\n Datacube MV-20/200 hardware allowing you to run your graphs in real-time.\n\n For a free WIT demo disk, call, FAX, or e-mail (poon@ee.ubc.ca)\n us stating your complete name, address, voice, FAX, e-mail info.\n and desired platform.\n\n Pricing: WIT for Sparc, one yr. free upgrades, 30 days\n technical support....................$5000 US\n\n Academic institutions: discounts available\n\n\n Contact:\n Logical Vision Ltd.\n Suite 108-3700 Gilmore Way\n Burnaby, B.C., CANADA\n V5G 4M1\n Tel: 604-435-2587\n Fax: 604-435-8840\n\n Terry Arden <poon@ee.ubc.ca>\n\nVIS-5D\n------\n A system for visually exploring the output of 5-D gridded data sets\n such as those made by weather models. Platforms:\n\n SGI IRIS with VGX, GTX, TG, or G graphics,\n SGI Crimson or Indigo (R4000, Elan graphics suggested), IRIX 4.0.x\n IBM RS/6000 with GL graphics, AIX version 3 or later;\n Stardent GS-1000 and GS-2000 (with TrueColor display)\n\n In any case, 32 (or more) MB of RAM are suggested.\n\n You can get it freely (thanks to NASA support) via anonymous ftp:\n\n ftp iris.ssec.wisc.edu (or ftp 144.92.108.63), then\n\n ftp> cd pub/vis5d\n ftp> ascii\n ftp> get README\n ftp> bye\n\n NOTE: You can find the package also on wuarchive.wustl.edu in the\n graphics/graphics/packages directory.\n\n Read section 2 of the README file for full instructions\n on how to get and install VIS-5D.\n\n Contact:\n Bill Hibbard (whibbard@vms.macc.wisc.edu)\n Brian Paul (bpaul@vms.macc.wisc.edu)\n\nDATAexplorer (IBM)\n------------------\n Platforms : IBM Risc System 6000, IBM POWER Visualization Server\n (SIMD mesh 32 i860s, 40 MHz)\n\n Working on (announced) : SGI, HP, Sun\n\n Contact:\n Your local IBM Rep. For a trial package ask your rep to contact :\n\n David Kilgore\n Data Explorer Product Marketing\n YKTVMH(KILCORE), (708) 981-4510\n\nWavefront\n---------\n Data Visualizer, Personal Visualizer, Advanced Visualizer.\n Platforms: SGI, SUN, IBM RS6000, HP, DEC\n\n Availability:\n Available on all the above platforms from Wavefront\n Technologies. Educational programs and site licenses are\n available.\n\n Contacts:\n Mike Wilson (mike@wti.com)\n\n Wavefront Technologies, Inc.\n 530 East Montecito Street\n Santa Barbara, CA 93103\n 805-962-8117\n FAX: 805-963-0410\n\n Wavefront Europe\n Guldenspoorstraat 21-23\n B-9000 Gent, Belgium\n 32-91-25-45-55\n FAX: 32-91-23-44-56\n\n Wavefront Technologies Japan\n 17F Shinjuku-sumitomo Bldg\n 2-6-1 Nishi-shinjuku, Shunjuku-Ku\n Tokyo 168 Japan\n 81-3-3342-7330\n FAX 81-3-3342-7353\n\n\nPLOT3D and FAST from NASA Ames\n------------------------------\n These packages are distributed from COSMIC at least\n (for FAST ask Pat Elson <pelson@nas.nasa.gov> for\n distribution information). In general, these codes are for US\n citizens only :-(\n\nXGRAPH\n------\n On the contrib tape of X11R5. Its specialty is display of up\n to 64 data sets (2D).\n\nNCAR\n----\n National Center for Atmospheric Research. One of the original graphics\n packages. Runs on Sun, RS6000, SGI, VAX, Cray Y-MP, DecStations, and more.\n\n Contact:\n\tGraphics Information\n\tNCAR Scientific Computing Division\n\tP.O. Box 3000\n\tBoulder, CO 80307-3000\n\t(303)-497-1201\n\tscdinfo@ncar.ucar.edu\n\n Cost:\n\t.edu\n\t$750 Unlimited users\n\n\t.gov\n\t$750 1 user\n\t$1500 5 users\n\t$3000 25 users\n\n\t.com users multiply .gov * 2.0\n\nIDL\n---\n An environment for scientific computing and visualization.\n Based on an array oriented language, IDL includes 2D and 3D\n graphics, matrix manupulation, signal and image processing,\n basic statistics, gridding, mapping, and a widget based system\n for building GUI for IDL applications (Open Look, Motif, or\n MS-Windows).\n\n Environments: DEC (VMS and Ultrix), HP, IBM RS6000, SGI, Sun,\n Microsoft Windows. (Mac version in progress)\n Cost: $1500 to $3750, Educational and quantity discounts\n available.\n See also: comp.lang.idl-pvwave (the IDL-PVWAVE bundle)\n Contact: Research Systems Inc.\n 777 29th Street, Suite 302\n Boulder, CO 80303\n Phone: 303-786-9900\n FAX: 303-786-9909\n E-mail: info@rsinc.com\n Demo available via FTP. Call or E-mail for details.\n\nIDL/SIPS\n--------\n "A lot of people are using IDL with a package called SIPS. This was\n developed at the University of Colorado (Boulder) by some people working\n for Alex Goetz. You might try contacting them if you already have IDL\n or would be willing to buy it. It\'s a few thousand dollars (American) I\n expect for IDL and the other should be free. Those are the general\n purpose packages I\'ve heard of, besides what TerraMar has.\n SIPS _was_ written for AVIRIS imagery. I\'m not sure how general purpose\n it is. You would have to contact Goetz or one of his people and ask. I\n have another piece of software (PCW) that does PC and Walsh\n transformations with pseudocoloring and clustering and limited image\n modification (you can compute an image using selected components). I\'ve\n used it on 70 megabyte AVIRIS images without problems, but for the best\n speed you need an external DSP card. It will work without it, but large\n images take quite a while (50-70 times as long) to process. That\'s a\n freebie if you want it"\n\n "My favorite is IDL (Interactive Data Language) from Research Systems,\n Inc. IDL is in my opinion, much better and infinitely easier. Its\n programming language is very strong and easy -- very Pascal-like. It\n handles the number-crunching very well, also. Personally, I like doing\n the number-crunching with IDL on the VAX (or Mathematica, Igor, or even\n Excel on the Mac if it\'s not too hairy), then bringing it over to NIH\n Image for the imaging part. I have yet to encounter any situation which\n that combination couldn\'t handle, and the speed and ease of use\n (compared to IRAF) was incredible. By the way, it\'s mostly astronomical\n image processing which I\'ve been doing. This means image enhancement,\n cleaning up bad lines/pixels, and some other traditional image\n processing routines. Then, for example, taking a graph of intensity\n versus position along a line I choose with the mouse, then doing a curve\n fit to that line (which I might do like in KaleidaGraph.) "\n\n[ For IDL call Research Systems , for PV-WAVE call Precision Visuals and\n for SIPS call University of Colorado @ Boulder . From what I can\n understand, you can get packaged programs from Research Systems, though\n -- nfotis ]\n\nVisual3\n-------\n contact Robert Haimes, MIT\n\nFieldView\n---------\n An interactive program designed to assist an engineer in\n investigating fluid dynamics data sets. \n\n Platforms: SGI, IBM, HP, SUN, X-terminals\n\n Availability: Currently available on all of the above\n platforms. Educational programs and volume \n discounts are available.\n\n Contact:\n\n Intelligent Light \n P.O. Box 65\n Fair Lawn, NJ 07410\n (201)794-7550\n \n Steve Kramer (kramer@ilight.com)\n\n\nSciAn\n------\n SciAn is primarily intended to do 3-D visualizations of data in an \n interactive environment with the ability to generate animations using\n frame-accurate video recording devices. A user manual, on-line help, and\n technical notes will help you use the program.\n\n Cost : 0 (Free), source code provided via ftp.\n Platforms : SGI 4D machines and IBM RS/6000 with the GL card + Z-buffer\n\n Where to find it:\n ftp.scri.fsu.edu [144.174.128.34] : /pub/SciAn\n\tA mirror is monu1.cc.monash.edu.au [130.194.1.101] : /pub/SciAn\n\nSCRY\n----\n[ From the README : ]\n\n Scry is a distributed image handling system that pro-\n vides image transport and compression on local and wide area\n networks, image viewing on workstations, recording on video\n equipment, and storage on disk. The system can be distri-\n buted among workstations, between supercomputers and works-\n tations, and between supercomputers, workstations and video\n animation controllers. The system is most commonly used to\n produce video based movie displays of images resulting from\n visualization of time dependent data, complex 3D data sets,\n and image processing operations. Both the clients and\n servers run on a variety of systems that provide UNIX-like C\n run-time environments, and 4BSD sockets.\n \n The source is available for anonymous ftp:\n \n csam.lbl.gov [128.3.254.6] : pub/scry.tar.Z\n \n Contact:\n \n Bill Johnston, (wejohnston@lbl.gov, ...ucbvax!csam.lbl.gov!johnston)\n\n or\n\n David Robertson (dwrobertson@lbl.gov, ...ucbvax!csam.lbl.gov!davidr)\n \n Imaging Technologies Group\n MS 50B/2239\n Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory\n 1 Cyclotron Road\n Berkeley, CA 94720\n\n\nSVLIB / FVS\n-----------\n SVLIB is an X-Windows widget set based on the OSF (Open Software \n Foundation) Motif widget set. SVLIB widgets are macro-widgets \n comprising lower level Motif widgets such as buttons, scrollbars, \n menus, and drawing areas. It is designed to address the reusability \n of 2D visualization routines and each widget in the library is an \n encapsulation of a specific visualization technique such as colormap \n manipulation, image display, and contour plotting. It is targetted\n to run on UNIX workstations supporting OSF/Motif. Currently, only \n color monitors are supported. Since SVLIB is a collection of widgets \n developed in the same spirit as the OSF/Motif user interface widget \n set, it integrates seamlessly with the Motif widgets. Programmers \n using SVLIB widgets see the same interface and design as other \n Motif widgets.\n\n FVS is a visualization software for Computational Fluid Dynamics (CFD) \n simulations. FVS is designed to accept data generated from these\n simulations and apply various visualization techniques to present these\n data graphically. \n FVS accepts three-dimensional multi-block data recorded in NCSA HDF format.\n\n iti.gov.sg [192.122.132.130] : /pub/svlib (Scientific Visualization)\n /pu/fvs; These directories contain demo binaries for Sun4/SGI\n\n Cost : US$200 for academic and US$300 for non-academic institutions.\n (For each of the above items). You\'re getting the source for the licence.\n\n Contact\n -------\n Miss Quek Lee Hian\n Member of Technical Staff\n Information Technology Institute\n National Computer Board\n NCB Building\n 71, Sicence Park Drive\n Singapore 0511\n Republic of Singapore\n Tel : (65)7720435\n Fax : (65)7795966\n Email : leehian@iti.gov.sg\n\n\n---------------------------------------------------------\nGVLware Distribution:\n Bob - An interactive volume renderer for the SGI\n Raz - A disk based movie player for the SGI\n Icol - Motif color editor\n---------------------------------------------------------\n\nThe Army High Performance Computing Research Center (AHPCRC) has been\ndeveloping a set of tools to work with large time dependent 2D and 3D\ndata sets. In the Graphics and Visualization Lab (GVL) we are using\nthese tools along side standard packages, such as SGI Explorer and the\nUtah Raster Toolkit, to render 3D volumes and create digital movies.\nA couple of the more general purpose programs have been bundled into a\npackage called "GVLware".\n\nGVLware, currently consisting of Bob, Raz and Icol, is now available\nvia ftp. The most interesting program is probably Bob, an interactive\nvolume renderer for the SGI. Raz streams raster images from disk to\nan SGI screen, enabling movies larger than memory to be played. Icol\nis a color map editor that works with Bob and Raz. Source and\npre-built binaries for IRIX 4.0.5 are included.\n\nTo acquire GVLware, anonymous ftp to:\n machine - ftp.arc.umn.edu\n file - /pub/gvl.tar.Z\n\nTo use GVLware:\n mkdir gvl ; cd gvl\n zcat gvl.tar.Z | tar xvf -\n more README\n\nSome Bob features:\n Motif interface, SGI GL rendering\n Renders 64 cubed data set in 0.1 to 1.0 seconds on a VGX\n Alpha Compositing and Maximum Value rendering, in perspective\n (only Maximum Value rendering on Personal Iris)\n Data must be a "Brick of Bytes", on a regularly spaced grid\n Animation, subvolumes, subsampling, stereo\n\nSome Raz features:\n Motif interface, SGI GL rendering\n Loads files to a raw disk partition, then streams to screen\n (requires an empty disk partition to be set aside)\n Script interface available for movie sequences\n Can stream from memory, like NCSA XImage\n \nSome Icol features:\n Motif interface\n Easy to create interpolated color maps between key points\n RGB, HSV and YUV color spaces, multiple file formats\n Communicates changes automatically to Bob and Raz\n Has been tested on SGI, Sun, DEC and Cray systems\n\nBTW: Bob == Brick of Bytes\n Icol == Interpolated Color\n Raz == ? (just a name)\n\nPlease send any comments to\n gvlware@ahpcrc.umn.edu\n\nThis software collection is supported by the Army Research Office\ncontract number DAALO3-89-C-0038 with the University of Minnesota Army\nHigh Performance Computing Research Center.\n\n\nIAP\n---\n Imaging Applications Platform is a commercial package for medical and\n scientific visualization. It does volume rendering, binary surface\n rendering, multiplanar reformating, image manipulation, cine sequencing,\n intermixes geometry and text with images and provides measurement and\n coordinate transform abilities.\n\n It can provide hardcopy on most medical film printers, image database\n functionality and interconnection to most medical (CT/MRI/etc) scanners.\n\n It is client/server based and provides an object oriented interface. It\n runs on most high performance workstations and takes full advantage of\n parallelism where it is available. It is robust, efficient and\n will be submitted for FDA approval for use in medical applications.\n\n Cost: $20K for OEM developer, $10K for educational developer\n and run times starting at $8900 and going down based on quantity.\n\n The developer packages include two days training for two people in Toronto.\n\n Available from:\n\n ISG Technologies\n 6509 Airport Road\n Mississauga, Ontario,\n Canada, L4V-1S7\n\n (416) 672-2100\n e-mail: Rod Gilchrist <rod@isgtec.com>\n\n========================================================================\n\n18. Molecular visualization stuff\n=================================\n\n[ Based on a list from cristy@dupont.com < Cristy > , which asked for\n systems for displaying Molecular Dynamics, MD for short ]\n\nFlex\n----\n It is a public domain package written by Michael Pique, at The Scripps\n Research Institute, La Jolla, CA. Flex is stored as a compressed,\n tar\'ed archive (about 3.4MB) at perutz.scripps.edu [137.131.152.27], in\n pub/flex. It displays molecular models and MD trajectories.\n\nMacMolecule\n-----------\n (for Macintosh). I searched with Archie, and the most\n promising place is sumex-aim.stanford.edu (info-mac/app, and\n info-mac/art/qt for a demo)\n\nMD-DISPLAY\n----------\n Runs on SGI machines. Call Terry Lybrand (lybrand@milton.u.washington.edu).\n\nXtalView\n--------\n It is a crystallography package that does visualize molecules and much more.\n It uses the XView toolkit.\n Call Duncan McRee <dem@scripps.edu>\n\nlandman@hal.physics.wayne.edu:\n-----------------------------\n I am writing my own visualization code right now. I look at MD output\n (a specific format, easy to alter for the subroutine) on PC\'s. My\n program has hooks into GKS. If your friend has access to Phigs for X\n (PEX) and fortran bindings, I would be happy to share my evolving code\n (free of charge). Right now it can display supercells of up to 65\n atoms (easy to change), and up to 100 time steps, drawing nearest\n neighbor bonds between 2 defining nn radii. It works acceptably fast\n on a 10Mhz 286.\n\nicsg0001@caesar.cs.montana.edu:\n------------------------------\n I did a project on Molecular Visualization for my Master\'s Thesis, using\n UNIX/X11/Motif which generates a simple point and space-filling model.\n\nKGNGRAF\n-------\n\nKGNGRAF is part of MOTECC-91. Look on malena.crs4.it (156.148.7.12),\nin pub/motecc.\n\nmotecc.info.txt Information about MOTECC-91 in plain ascii format.\n----------------------------------------------------------------------------\nmotecc.info.troff Information about MOTECC-91 in troff format.\nmotecc.form.troff MOTECC-91 order form in troff format.\nmotecc.license.troff MOTECC-91 license agreement in troff format.\n----------------------------------------------------------------------------\nmotecc.info.ps Information about MOTECC-91 in PostScript format.\nmotecc.form.ps MOTECC-91 order form in PostScript format.\nmotecc.license.ps MOTECC-91 license agreement in PostScript format.\n\n\nditolla@itnsg1.cineca.it:\n------------------------\n I\'m working on molecular dynamic too. A friend of mine and I have\n\n developed a program to display an MD run dynamically on Silicon\n Graphics. We are working to improve it, but it doesn\'t work under X,\n we are using the graphi. lib. of the Silicon Gr. because they are much\n faster then X. When we\'ll end it we\'ll post on the news info about\n where to get it with ftp. (Will be free software).\n\nXBall V2.0\n----------\n Written by David Nedde. Call daven@maxine.wpi.edu.\n\nXMol\n----\n An X Window System program that uses OSF/Motif for the\n display and analysis of molecular model data. Data from several\n common file formats can be read and written; current formats include:\n Alchemy, CHEMLAB-II, Gaussian, MOLSIM, MOPAC, PDB, and MSCI\'s XYZ\n format (which has been designed for simplicity in translating to\n and from other formats). XMol also allows for conversion between\n several of these formats.\n Xmol is available at ftp.msc.edu. Read pub/xmol/README for\n further details.\n\nINSIGHT II\n----------\n from BIOSYM Technologies Inc.\n\nSCARECROW\n---------\n The program has been published in J. Molecular Graphics 10\n (1992) 33. The program can analyze and display CHARMM, DISCOVER, YASP\n and MUMOD trajectories. The program package contains also software for\n the generation of probe surfaces, proton affinity\n surfaces and molecular orbitals from an extended Huckel program.\n It works on Silicon Graphics machines.\n Contact Leif Laaksonen <Leif.Laaksonen@csc.fi or laaksone@csc.fi>\n\nMULTI\n-----\nns.niehs.nih.gov [157.98.8.8] : /pub - MULTI 3.0 (Multi-Process\n\t\tMolecular Modeling Suite)\n\n+MindTool\n+--------\n+ It runs under SunView, and requires a fortran compiler and Sun\'s CGI\n+ libraries. MindTool is a tool provided for the interactive graphic\n+ manipulation of molecules and atoms. Currently, up to 10,000\n+ atoms may be input.\n+ Available via anonymous FTP, at rani.chem.yale.edu, directory\n+ /pub/MindTool ( Check with Archie for other sites if that\'s too far )\n\n[ I would also suggest looking at least in SGI\'s Applications Directory.\n It contains many more packages - nfotis ]\n\n===========================================================================\n\n19. GIS (Geographical Information Systems software)\n===================================================\n\nGRASS\n-----\n (Geographic Resource Analysis Support System) of the US Army\n Construction Engineering Research Lab (CERL). It is a popular geographic and\n remote sensing image processing package. Many may think of GRASS as a\n Geographic Information System rather than an Image Processing package,\n although it is reported to have significant image processing\n capabilities.\n\n Feature Descriptions\n\n I use GRASS because it\'s public domain and can be obtained through the\n internet for free. GRASS runs in Unix and is written in C. The source\n code can be obtained through an anonymous ftp from the Office of Grass\n Integration. You then compile the source code for your machine, using\n scripts provided with GRASS. I would recommend GRASS for someone who\n already has a workstation and is on a limited budget. GRASS is not very\n user-friendly, compared to Macintosh software." A first review of\n overview documentation indicates that it looks useful and has some pixel\n resampling functions not in other packages plus good general purpose\n image enhancement routines (fft). Kelly Maurice at Vexcel Corp. in\n Boulder, CO is a primary user of GRASS . This gentleman has used the\n GRASS software and developed multi-spectral (238 bands ??) volumetric\n rendering, full color, on Suns and Stardents. It was a really effective\n interface. Vexcel Corp. currently has a contract to map part of Venus\n and convert the Magellan radar data into contour maps. You can call them\n at (303) 444-0094 or email care of greg@vexcel.com 192.92.90.68\n\n Host Configuration Requirements\n\n If you are willing to run A/UX you could install GRASS on a Macintosh\n which has significant image analysis and import capabilities for\n satellite data. GRASS is public-domain, and can run on a high-end PC\n under UNIX. It is raster-based, has some image-processing capability,\n and can display vector data (but analysis must be done in the raster\n environment). I have used GRASS V.3 on a SUN workstation and found it\n easy to use. It is best, of course, for data that are well represented\n in raster (grid-cell) form.\n\n Availability\n\n CERL\'s Office of Grass Integration (OGI) maintains an ftp server:\n moon.cecer.army.mil (129.229.20.254).\n\n Mail regarding this site should be addressed to\n grass-ftp-admin@moon.cecer.army.mil.\n\n This location will be the new "canonical" source for GRASS software, as\n well as bug fixes, contributed sources, documentation, and other files.\n This FTP server also supports dynamic compression and uncompression and\n "tar" archiving of files. A feature attraction of the server is John\n Parks\' GRASS tutorial. Because the manual is still in beta-test stage,\n John requests that people only acquire it if they are willing to review\n it and mail him comments/corrections. The OGI is not currently\n maintaining this document, so all correspondence about it should be\n directed to grassx@tang.uark.edu\n\n Support\n\n Listserv mailing lists:\n\n grassu-list@amber.cecer.army.mil (for GRASS users; application-level\n questions, support concerns, miscellaneous questions, etc) Send\n subscribe commands to grassu-request@amber.cecer.army.mil.\n\n grassp-list@amber.cecer.army.mil (for GRASS programmers; system-level\n questions and tips, tricks, and techniques of design and implementation\n of GRASS applications) Send subscribe commands to\n grassp-request@amber.cecer.army.mil.\n\n Both lists are maintained by the Office of Grass Integration (subset of\n the Army Corps of Engineers Construction Engineering Research Lab in\n Champaign, IL). The OGI is providing the lists as a service to the\n community; while OGI and CERL employees will participate in the lists,\n we can make no claim as to content or veracity of messages that pass\n through the list. If you have questions, problems, or comments, send\n E-mail to lists-owner@amber.cecer.army.mil and a human will respond.\n\nMicrostation Imager\n-------------------\n Intergraph (based in Huntsville Alabama) sells a wide range of GIS\n software/hardware. Microstation is a base graphics package that Imager\n sits on top of. Imager is basically an image processing package with a\n heavy GIS/remote sensing flavor.\n\n Feature Description\n\n Basic geometry manipulations: flip, mirror, rotate, generalized affine.\n Rectification: Affine, 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 5th order models as well as a\n projective model (warp an image to a vector map or to another image).\n RGB to IHS and IHS to RGB conversion. Principal component analysis.\n Classification: K-means and isodata. Fourier Xforms: Forward, filtering\n and reverse. Filters: High pass, low pass, edge enhancing, median,\n generic. Complex Histogram/Contrast control. Layer Controller: manages\n up to 64 images at a time -- user can extract single bands from a 3 band\n image or create color images by combining various individual bands, etc.\n\n The package is designed for a remote sensing application (it can handle\n VERY LARGE images) and there is all kinds of other software available\n for GIS applications.\n Host Configuration Requirements\n\n It runs on Intergraph Workstations (a Unix machine similar to a Sun)\n though there were rumors (there are always rumors) that the software\n would be ported to PC and possibly a Sun environment.\n\nPCI\n---\n A company called PCI, Inc., out of Richmond Hill, Ontario, Canada, makes\n an array of software utilities for processing, manipulation, and use of\n remote sensing data in eight or ten different "industry standard"\n formats: LGSOWG, BSQ, LANDSAT, and a couple of others whose titles I\n forget. The software is available in versions for MS-DOS, Unix\n workstations (among them HP, Sun, and IBM), and VMS, and quite possibly\n other platforms by now. I use the VMS version.\n\n The "PCI software" consists of several classes/groups/packages of\n utilities, grouped by function but all operating on a common "PCI\n database" disk file. The "Tape I/O" package is a set of utility\n programs which read from the various remote-sensing industry tape\n formats INTO, or write those formats out FROM, the "PCI database" file;\n this is the only package I use or know much about. Other packages can\n display data from the PCI database to one or another of several\n PCI-supported third-party color displays, output numeric or bitmap\n representation of image data to an attached printer, e.g. an Epson-type\n dot-matrix graphics printer. You might be more spe- cifically\n interested in the mathematical operations package: histo- gram and\n Fourier analysis, equalization, user-specified operations (e.g.\n "multiply channel 1 by 3, add channel 2, and store as channel 5"), and\n God only knows what all else -- there\'s a LOT. I don\'t have and don\'t\n use these, so can\'t say much about them; you only buy the packages your\n particular application/interest calls for.\n\n Each utility is controlled by from one to eight "parameters," read from\n a common "parameter file" which must be (in VMS anyway) in your "default\n directory." Some utilities will share parameters and use the same\n parameter for a different purpose, so it can get a bit confusing setting\n up a series of operations. The standard PCI environment contains a\n scripting language very similar to IBM-PC BASIC, but which allows you to\n automate the process of setting up parameters for a common, complicated,\n lengthy or difficult series of utility executions. (In VMS I can also\n invoke utilities independently from a DCL command procedure.) There\'s\n also an optional programming library which allows you to write compiled\n language programs which can interface with (read from/write to) the PCI\n data structures (database file, parameter file).\n\n The PCI software is designed specifically for remote-sensing images, but\n requires such a level of operator expertise that, once you reach the\n level where you can handle r-s images, you can figure out ways to handle\n a few other things as well. For instance, the Tape I/O package offers a\n utility for reading headerless multi-band (what Adobe PhotoShop on the\n Macintosh calls "raw") data from tape, in a number of different\n "interleave" orders. This turns out to be ideal for manipulating the\n graphic-arts industry\'s "CT2T" format, would probably (I haven\'t tried)\n handle Targa, and so on. Above all, however, you HAVE TO KNOW WHAT\n YOU\'RE DOING or you can screw up to the Nth degree and have to start\n over. It\'s worth noting that the PCI "database" file is designed to\n contain not only "raster" (image) data, but vectors (for overlaying map\n information entered via digitizing table), land-use, and all manner of\n other information (I observe that a remote-sensing image tape often\n contains all manner of information about the spectral bands, latitude,\n longitude, time, date, etc. of the original satellite pass; all of this\n can go into the PCI "database").\n\n I _believe_ that on workstations the built-in display is used. On VAX\n systems OTHER than workstations PCI supports only a couple of specific\n third-party display systems (the name Gould/Deanza seems to come to\n mind). One of MY personal workarounds was a display program which would\n display directly from a PCI "database" file to a Peritek VCT-Q (Q-bus\n 24-bit DirectColor) display subsystem. PCI software COULD be "overkill"\n in your case; it seems designed for the very "high end"\n applications/users, i.e. those for whom a Mac/PC largely doesn\'t suffice\n (although as you know the gap is getting smaller all the time). It\'s\n probably no coincidence that PCI is located in Canada, a country which\n does a LOT of its land/resource management via remote sensing; I believe\n the Canadian government uses PCI software for some of its work in these\n areas.\n\nSPAM (Spectral Analysis Manager)\n--------------------------------\n Back in 1985 JPL developed something called SPAM (Spectral Analysis\n Manager) which got a fair amount of use at the time. That was designed\n for Airborne Imaging Spectrometer imagery (byte data, <= 256 pixels\n across by <= 512 lines by <= 256 bands); a modified version has since\n been developed for AVIRIS (Airborne VIsual and InfraRed Imaging\n Spectrometer) which uses much larger images.\n\n Spam does none of these things (rectification, classification, PC and\n IHS transformations, filtering, contrast enhancement, overlays).\n Actually, it does limited filtering and contrast enhancement\n (stretching). Spam is aimed at spectral identification and clustering.\n\n The original Spam uses X or SunView to display. The AVIRIS version may\n require VICAR, an executive based on TAE, and may also require a frame\n buffer. I can refer you to people if you\'re interested. PCW requires X\n for display.\n\nMAP II\n------\n Among the Mac GIS systems, MAP II is distributed by John Wiley.\n\nCLRview\n-------\n CLRview is a 3-dimensional visualization program designed to exploit\n the real-time capabilities of Silicon Graphics IRIS computers.\n\n This program is designed to provide a core set of tools to aid in the\n visualization of information from CAD and GIS sources. It supports\n the integration of many common but disperate data sources such as DXF,\n TIN, DEM, Lattices, and Arc/Info Coverages among others.\n\n CLRview can be obtained from explorer.dgp.utoronto.ca (128.100.1.129) \n in the directory pub/sgi/clrview.\n\n Contact:\n Rodney Hoinkes\n Head of Design Applications\n Centre for Landscape Research\n University of Toronto\n Tel: (416) 978-7197\n Email: rodney@dgp.utoronto.ca\n\n==========================================================================\n\nEnd of Resource Listing\n-- \nNick (Nikolaos) Fotis National Technical Univ. of Athens, Greece\nHOME: 16 Esperidon St., InterNet : nfotis@theseas.ntua.gr\n Halandri, GR - 152 32 UUCP: mcsun!ariadne!theseas!nfotis\n Athens, GREECE FAX: (+30 1) 77 84 578\n',
'From: jono@mac-ak-24.rtsg.mot.com (Jon Ogden)\nSubject: Re: Help\nOrganization: Motorola LPA Development\nLines: 87\n\n> \t I\'m a commited Christian that is battling with a problem. I know\n> that romans talks about how we are saved by our faith not our deeds, yet\n> hebrews and james say that faith without deeds is useless, saying\' You fools,\n> do you still think that just believing is enough?\'\n\n[Stuff deleted]\n \n> Now I am of the opinion that you a saved through faith alone (not what you do)\n> as taught in Romans, but how can I square up in my mind the teachings of James\n> in conjunction with the lukewarm Christian being \'spat-out\'\n> \n> Can anyone help me, this really bothers me.\n\n\nWill, there has been a lot of discussion going on about this over in\ns.r.c.b-s.\nI will make the case here though and try to help you out:\n\n8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it\nis the gift of God:\n9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.\n(Ephesians 2:8-9).\n\nYes, it is by God\'s grace and our faith that we are saved. We are not\nsaved by what we do. However,\n\n15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.\n(John 14:15).\n\nKeeping Christ\'s commandments is a "work" per se, and a demonstration of\nour love for him. Also,\n\n6 He spake also this parable; A certain man had a fig tree planted in his\nvineyard; and he came and sought fruit thereon, and found none.\n7 Then said he unto the dresser of his vineyard, Behold, these three years\nI come seeking fruit on this fig tree, and find none: cut it down; why\ncumbereth it the ground?\n8 And he answering said unto him, Lord, let it alone this year also, till I\nshall dig about it, and dung it:\n9 And if it bear fruit, well: and if not, then after that thou shalt cut it\ndown.\n(Luke 13:6-9).\n\nAgain,\n\n16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye\nshould go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that\nwhatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.\n(John 15:16).\n\nIt is clear from these verses that we are called to bring forth fruit. \nWhat is that fruit. Well, Paul speaks of the fruit of the spirit being\nlove, joy, peace, patience, etc. All of these are things that are manifest\nin the actions that we carry out.\n\nIf a person claims to believe in Jesus Christ, but does not do the things\nChrist commanded, I dare say, that they really don\'t have any faith. \nAsking which is more important, faith or works, is like asking which blade\non a pair of scissors is most important or like asking which leg of your\npants is more important.\n\nGood works should come out of and be a result of our faith. To have faith,\ntrue faith in Christ requires you to do what he commands. The parable\nabove speaks allegorically of a person who does bear no fruit. Christs\ncommands are actions, and if we don\'t do those actions and produce fruit,\nthen we shall be uprooted just like the tree. \n\nIt is a dead and useless faith which has no action behind it. Actions\nprove our faith and show the genuineness of it. I can sit and talk for\ndays about the fact that I have so much faith in my ability to jump off a\nbuilding and not hit the ground. In other words, I can sit and tell you\nall day long that I have faith in my ability to fly. I really don\'t have\nthat faith though unless I am willing to jump off the roof and take the\ntest. Words and talk mean nothing.\n\nI could go on and give more scriptures and if people want me to I will, but\nthis should be sufficient.\n\nHope it helped.\n\nJon\n\n----------------\nsig file broken....\n\nplease try later...\n----------------\n',
'From: geb@cs.pitt.edu (Gordon Banks)\nSubject: Re: health care reform\nArticle-I.D.: pitt.19409\nReply-To: geb@cs.pitt.edu (Gordon Banks)\nOrganization: Univ. of Pittsburgh Computer Science\nLines: 20\n\nIn article <1993Mar28.200619.5371@cnsvax.uwec.edu> nyeda@cnsvax.uwec.edu (David Nye) writes:\n\n>and may be a total disaster and that the Canadian model is preferable, a\n>position with which I agree. The other is surprising sympathy for the\n>physicians in all of this, to the effect that beating up on us won\'t\n>help anything.\n> \n\nI\'m not sure about that. Did you see the "poll" they took that showed\nthat most people thought physicians should be paid $80,000 per year\ntops? That\'s all I make, but I doubt that most physicians are going\nto work very hard for that kind of bread. Many wouldn\'t be able\nto service their med school debts on that. Mike Royko had a good\ncolumn about it.\n\n-- \n----------------------------------------------------------------------------\nGordon Banks N3JXP | "Skepticism is the chastity of the intellect, and\ngeb@cadre.dsl.pitt.edu | it is shameful to surrender it too soon." \n----------------------------------------------------------------------------\n',
"Organization: Penn State University\nFrom: <SEC108@psuvm.psu.edu>\nSubject: Why the bible?\nLines: 38\n\n One thing I think is interesting about alt.athiesm is the fact that\nwithout bible-thumpers and their ilk this would be a much duller newsgroup.\nIt almost needs the deluded masses to write silly things for athiests to\ntear apart. Oh well, that little tidbit aside here is what I really wanted\nwrite about.\n\n How can anyone believe in such a sorry document as the bible? If you\nwant to be religious aren't there more plausable books out there? Seriously,\nthe bible was written by multiple authors who repeatedly contradict each\nother. One minute it tells you to kill your kid if he talks back and the next\nit says not to kill at all. I think that if xtians really want to follow a\ndeity they should pick one that can be consistent, unlike the last one they\ninvented.\n\n For people who say Jesus was the son of god, didn't god say not to\nEVER put ANYONE else before him? Looks like you did just that. Didn't god\nsay not to make any symbols or idols? What are crosses then? Don't you think\nthat if you do in fact believe in the bible that you are rather far off track?\n\nWas Jesus illiterate? Why didn't he write anything? Anyone know?\n\n I honestly hope that people who believe in the bible understand that\nit is just one of the religious texts out there and that it is one of the\npoorer quality ones to boot. The only reason xtianity escaped the middle east\nis because a certain roman who's wine was poisoned with lead made all of rome\nxtian after a bad dream.\n\n If this posting keeps one person, just ONE person, from standing on a\nstreetcorner and telling people they are going to hell I will be happy.\n\n\n\n\n\n*** Only hatred and snap judgements can guide your robots through life. ***\n*** Dr. Clayton Forester ***\n*** Mad Scientist ***\n\n",
'From: sdittman@liberty.uc.wlu.edu (Scott Dittman)\nSubject: Re: Some questions from a new Christian\nOrganization: Washington & Lee University\nLines: 21\n\nSteven R Hoskins (18669@bach.udel.edu) wrote:\n: Hi,\n\n: I am new to this newsgroup, and also fairly new to christianity.\n: ... I realize I am very ignorant about much of the Bible and\n: quite possibly about what Christians should hold as true. This I am trying\n: to rectify (by reading the Bible of course), but it would be helpful\n: to also read a good interpretation/commentary on the Bible or other\n: relevant aspects of the Christian faith. One of my questions I would\n: like to ask is - Can anyone recommend a good reading list of theological\n: works intended for a lay person?\n\nI\'d recommend McDowell\'s "Evidence that Demands a Verdict" books (3 I\nthink) and Manfred Brauch\'s "Hard Sayings of Paul". He also may have\ndone "Hard Sayings of Jesus". My focus would be for a new Christian to\nstruggle with his faith and be encouraged by the historical evidence,\nespecially one who comes from a background which emphasizes knowable faith.\n-- \nScott Dittman email: sdittman@wlu.edu\nUniversity Registrar talk: (703)463-8455 fax: (703)463-8024\nWashington and Lee University snail mail: Lexington Virginia 24450\n',
'From: szikopou@superior.carleton.ca (Steven Zikopoulos)\nSubject: Re: prozac\nOrganization: Carleton University\nLines: 14\n\nIn <C5L2x5.4B7@eis.calstate.edu> agilmet@eis.calstate.edu (Adriana Gilmete) writes:\n\n>Can anyone help me find any information on the drug Prozac? I am writing\n>a report on the inventors , Eli Lilly and Co., and the product. I need as\n>much help as I can get. Thanks a lot, Adriana Gilmete.\n\nPDR and CPS are good places to starts.\n\ndo a medline search... lots of interesting debates going on (remember\nwhen Prozac was impicated in suicidal behaviour?)\n\nsteve z\n',
'From: dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer)\nSubject: Re: Analgesics with Diuretics\nOrganization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA\n\nIn article <ofk=lve00WB2AvUktO@andrew.cmu.edu> Lawrence Curcio <lc2b+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:\n>I sometimes see OTC preparations for muscle aches/back aches that\n>combine aspirin with a diuretic.\n\nYou certainly do not see OTC preparations advertised as such.\nThe only such ridiculous concoctions are nostrums for premenstrual\nsyndrome, ostensibly to treat headache and "bloating" simultaneously.\nThey\'re worthless.\n\n>The idea seems to be to reduce\n>inflammation by getting rid of fluid. Does this actually work? \n\nThat\'s not the idea, and no, they don\'t work.\n\n-- \nSteve Dyer\ndyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer\n',
'From: ednclark@kraken.itc.gu.edu.au (Jeffrey Clark)\nSubject: Re: A Little Too Satanic\nNntp-Posting-Host: kraken.itc.gu.edu.au\nOrganization: ITC, Griffith University, Brisbane, Australia\nLines: 33\n\nmangoe@cs.umd.edu (Charley Wingate) writes:\n\n>Nanci Ann Miller writes:\n\n>>My favorite reply to the "you are being too literal-minded" complaint is\n>>that if the bible is really inspired by God and if it is really THAT\n>>important to him, then he would make damn certain all the translators and\n>>scribes and people interpreting and copying it were getting it right,\n>>literally. If not, then why should I put ANY merit at all in something\n>>that has been corrupted over and over and over by man even if it was\n>>originally inspired by God?\n\n>The "corrupted over and over" theory is pretty weak. Comparison of the\n>current hebrew text with old versions and translations shows that the text\n>has in fact changed very little over a space of some two millennia. This\n>shouldn\'t be all that suprising; people who believe in a text in this manner\n>are likely to makes some pains to make good copies.\n>-- \nDo you honestly hold to that tripe Charley? For a start there are enough\ncurrent versions of the Bible to make comparisons to show that what you write\nabove is utter garbage. Witness JW, Mormon, Catholic, Anglican, and Greek\nOrthodox Bibles. But to really convince you I\'d have to take you to a good\nold library. In our local library we had a 1804 King James which I compared\nto a brand new, hot of God\'s tongue Good News Bible. Genesis was almost\nunrecognisable, many of the discrepencies between the four gospels had been\nedited from the Good News Bible. In fact the God of Good News was a much\nmore congenial fellow I must say. \n\nIf you like I\'ll get the 1804 King James out again and actually give you\nsome quotes. At least the headings haven\'t changed much.\n\nJeff.\n\n',
'From: dgf1@quads.uchicago.edu (David Farley)\nSubject: Re: Photoshop for Windows\nReply-To: dgf1@midway.uchicago.edu\nOrganization: University of Chicago\nLines: 25\n\nIn article <C5uHIM.JFq@rot.qc.ca> beaver@rot.qc.ca (Andre Boivert) writes:\n>\n>\n>I am looking for comments from people who have used/heard about PhotoShop\n>for Windows. Is it good? How does it compare to the Mac version? Is there\n>a lot of bugs (I heard the Windows version needs "fine-tuning)?\n>\n>Any comments would be greatly appreciated..\n>\n>Thank you.\n>\n>Andre Boisvert\n>beaver@rot.qc.ca\n>\nAn review of both the Mac and Windows versions in either PC Week or Info\nWorld this week, said that the Windows version was considerably slower\nthan the Mac. A more useful comparison would have been between PhotoStyler\nand PhotoShop for Windows. David\n\n\n-- \nDavid Farley The University of Chicago Library\n312 702-3426 1100 East 57th Street, JRL-210\ndgf1@midway.uchicago.edu Chicago, Illinois 60637\n\n',
'From: gt7122b@prism.gatech.edu (boundary, the catechist)\nSubject: Re: Assurance of Hell\nOrganization: Georgia Institute of Technology\nLines: 13\n\nIn article <Apr.21.03.26.39.1993.1370@geneva.rutgers.edu> lfoard@hopper.virginia.edu (Lawrence C. Foard) writes:\n\n>A God who must motivate through fear is not a God worthy of worship.\n>If the God Jesus spoke of did indeed exist he would not need hell to\n\nThe reason for the existence of hell is justice. Fear is only an effect\nof the reality of hell.\n\n-- \nboundary, the catechist \n\nno teneis que pensar que yo haya venido a traer la paz a la tierra; no he\nvenido a traer la paz, sino la guerra (Mateo 10:34, Vulgata Latina) \n',
'From: jer@prefect.cc.bellcore.com (rathmann,janice e)\nSubject: Re: eye dominance\nOrganization: Bellcore, Livingston, NJ\nLines: 40\n\nIn article <1993Apr19.171938.17930@porthos.cc.bellcore.com>, jil@donuts0.uucp (Jamie Lubin) writes:\n> In article <19671@pitt.UUCP> geb@cs.pitt.edu (Gordon Banks) writes:\n> >In article <C5E2G7.877@world.std.com> rsilver@world.std.com (Richard Silver) writes:\n> >>\n> >>Is there a right-eye dominance (eyedness?) as there is an\n> >>overall right-handedness in the population? I mean do most\n> >>people require less lens corrections for the one eye than the\n> >>other? If so, what kinds of percentages can be attached to this?\n> >\n> >There is eye dominance same as handedness (and usually for the\n> >same side). It has nothing to do with refractive error, however.\n> \n> I recall reading/seeing that former baseball star Chris Chambliss\' hitting\n> abilities were (in part) attributed to a combination of left-handedness &\n> right-eye dominance.\n \nI was part of a study a few years ago at the University of Arizona to\nsee whether cross dominant individuals (those with a particular handedness\nbut who had dominance in the opposite eye) were better hitters than\nthose with same side dominance of hand and eye. I was picked from\nmy softball class because I was cross dominant (right hand, left eye)\nwhich put me in a small minority (and the grad student was trying to get\nan equal number of cross dominant and same side dominant people). To\ncontrol the study, she used a pitching machine - fast pitch. Since\nI was used to slow pitch, I didn\'t come close (actually I think\nI foul tipped a few) to hitting the ball. If there were a lot of people\nlike me in her study (i.e., those who can\'t hit fast pitch, or are\nnot used to hitting off a machine), I would seriously question the\nresults of that study!! I think there have been some studies of major\nleague players (across a fairly large cross section of players) to test\nwhether eye dominance being the same or opposite side was "better" -\nbut I don\'t know the results. (The woman who ran the study I was in\nsaid that there was a higher incidence of crossdominance in major\nleaguers than across the general population - but I\'m not sure\nwhether I\'d believe her.)\n\nJanice Rathmann\n\n\n\n',
'From: menon@boulder.Colorado.EDU (Ravi or Deantha Menon)\nSubject: Re: eye dominance\nOrganization: University of Colorado, Boulder\nLines: 38\nNntp-Posting-Host: beagle.colorado.edu\n\nnyeda@cnsvax.uwec.edu (David Nye) writes:\n\n>[reply to rsilver@world.std.com (Richard Silver)]\n> \n>>Is there a right-eye dominance (eyedness?) as there is an overall\n>>right-handedness in the population? I mean do most people require less\n>>lens corrections for the one eye than the other? If so, what kinds of\n>>percentages can be attached to this? Thanks.\n> \n>There is an "eyedness" analogous to handedness but it has nothing to do\n>with refractive error. To see whether you are right or left eyed, roll\n>up a sheet of paper into a tube and hold it up to either eye like a\n>telescope. The eye that you feel more comfortable putting it up to is\n>your dominant eye. Refractive error is often different in the two eyes\n>but has no correlation with handedness.\n> \n>David Nye (nyeda@cnsvax.uwec.edu). Midelfort Clinic, Eau Claire WI\n>This is patently absurd; but whoever wishes to become a philosopher\n>must learn not to be frightened by absurdities. -- Bertrand Russell\n\n\nWhat do you mean "more comfortable putting it up to." That seems a bit\nhard to evaluate. At least for me it is. \n\nStare straight Point with both hands together and clasp so that only the\npointer fingers are pointing straight forward to a a spot on the wall about\neight feet away. First stare at the spot with both eyes open. Now\nclose your left eye. Now open your left eye. Now close your right eye.\nnow open your right eye.\n\nIf the image jumped more when you closed your right eye, you are right\neye dominant.\n\nIf the image jumped more when you closed your left eye, you are left eye\ndominant.\n\n\nDeantha\n',
'From: pinky@tamu.edu (The Man behind The Curtain)\nSubject: Views on isomorphic perspectives?\nOrganization: Texas A&M University\nLines: 87\nNNTP-Posting-Host: tamsun.tamu.edu\nKeywords: isomorphic perspectives\n\n \nI\'m working upon a game using an isometric perspective, similar to\nthat used in Populous. Basically, you look into a room that looks\nsimilar to the following:\n\n xxxx\n xxxxx xxxx\n xxxx x xxxx\n xxxx x xxxx\n xxxx 2 xxxx 1 xxxx\n x xxxx xxxx x\n x xxxx xxxx x\n x xxxx o xxxx x\n xxxx 3 /|\\ xxxx\n xxxx /~\\ xxxx\n xxxx xxxx\n xxxx xxxx\n xxxx\n\nThe good thing about this perspective is that you can look and move\naround in three dimensions and still maintain your peripheral vision. [*]\n\nSince your viewpoint is always the same, the routines can be hard-coded\nfor a particular vantage. In my case, wall two\'s rising edge has a slope\nof 1/4. (I\'m also using Mode X, 320x240).\n\nI\'ve run into two problems; I\'m sure that other readers have tried this\nbefore, and have perhaps formulated their own opinions:\n\n1) The routines for drawing walls 1 & 2 were trivial, but when I ran a\npacked->planar image through them, I was dismayed by the "jaggies." I\'m\nnow considered some anti-aliasing routines (speed is not really necessary).\nIs it worth the effort to have the artist draw the wall already skewed,\nthus being assured of nice image, or is this too much of a burden?\n\n2) Wall 3 presents a problem; the algorithm I used tends to overly distort\nthe original. I tried to decide on paper what pixels go where, and failed.\nHas anyone come up with method for mapping a planar to crosswise sheared\nshape?\n\nCurrently I take:\n\n 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16\n 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32\n 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48\n 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64\n\nand produce:\n \n 1 2 3 4\n33 34 35 36 17 18 19 20 5 6 7 8\n49 50 51 52 37 38 39 40 21 22 23 24 9 10 11 12\n 53 54 55 56 41 42 43 44 25 26 27 28 13 14 15 16\n 57 58 59 60 45 46 47 48 29 30 31 32\n 61 62 63 64\n\nLine 1 follows the slope. Line 2 is directly under line 1.\nLine 3 moves up a line and left 4 pixels. Line 4 is under line 3.\nThis fills the shape exactly without any unfilled pixels. But\nit causes distortions. Has anyone come up with a better way?\nPerhaps it is necessary to simply draw the original bitmap\nalready skewed?\n\nAre there any other particularly sticky problems with this perspective?\nI was planning on having hidden plane removal by using z-buffering.\nLocations are stored in (x,y,z) form.\n\n[*] For those of you who noticed, the top lines of wall 2 (and wall 1)\n*are* parallel with its bottom lines. This is why there appears to\nbe an optical illusion (ie. it appears to be either the inside or outside\nof a cube, depending on your mood). There are no vanishing points.\nThis simplifies the drawing code for objects (which don\'t have to\nchange size as they move about in the room). I\'ve decided that this\napproximation is alright, since small displacements at a large enough\ndistance cause very little change in the apparent size of an object in\na real perspective drawing.\n\nHopefully the "context" of the picture (ie. chairs on the floor, torches\nhanging on the walls) will dispell any visual ambiguity.\n\nThanks in advance for any help.\n\n-- \nTill next time, \\o/ \\o/\n V \\o/ V email:pinky@tamu.edu\n<> Sam Inala <> V\n\n',
'From: Isabelle.Rosso@Dartmouth.edu (Isabelle Rosso)\nSubject: Hunchback\nX-Posted-From: InterNews 1.0b15@dartmouth.edu\nOrganization: Dartmouth College \nLines: 14\n\nI have a friend who has a very pronounced slouch of his upper back. He\nalways walks and sits this way so I have concluded that he is\nhunchback.\nIs this a genetic disorder, or is it something that people can correct.\ni.e. is it just bad posture that can be changed with a bit of will\npower?\n\n\n\n\n\nIsabelle.Rosso@Dartmouth.edu\n \n \n',
'From: pwhite@empros.com (Peter White)\nSubject: Some questions from a new Christian\nLines: 50\n\nReply-To: pwhite@empros.com\nIn article <Apr.15.00.58.29.1993.28900@athos.rutgers.edu>, 18669@bach.udel.edu (Steven R Hoskins) writes:\n \n|> I have another question I would like to ask. I am not yet affiliated\n|> with any one congregation. Aside from matters of taste, what criteria\n|> should one use in choosing a church? I don\'t really know the difference\n|> between the various Protestant denominations.\n \nHere in America people tend to think of choosing a church much like they\nthink of choosing a car or a country club. What I mean is that our \nculture is such that we tend towards satisfying our own wants rather\nthan considering things with others in mind and not making prayer \nan initial and primary part of the decision process. People tend to\ntreat church as they would a club and when something is less than to\ntheir liking, off they go to another one.\n\nI think that scripture presents the idea that God takes a different \nperspective on the "church choosing process". It seems to me from 1Cor 12\nthat God doesn\'t subscribe to the idea of us choosing a church at all\nbut that he places us in the body as he wants us. So, I think a better\nquestion is not how do I choose a church but how do I figure out where\nGod is trying to place me.\n\nIf a person was instrumental in leading you to Christ, the church they\ngo to is a logical first choice. You have been born into the family of\nGod. People should hop around from church to church as often as they\nhop from natural family to family.\n\nIf you met the Lord on your own (so to speak) there may not be an \neasily identifiable church to try for starters. Here you are more\nlike an orphan. Prayerfully go and "leave yourself on a few doorsteps"\nand see if anyplace feels like home. \n\nI wouldn\'t expect that God want to place you in a church where you\nhave difficulty fitting in with the people, but on the other hand\nthere are no perfect churches. If you have an attitude of looking\nfor problems you will both find them and make them. On the other hand\nif you have an attitude of love and committment, you will spread that\nwherever you go. \n\nIn general, I think that God will try to place you in a church that\ntalks about the Lord in the way that you have come to know him and is\nexpanding on that base.\n-- \nPeter White\ndisclaimer: None of what is written necessarily reflects \n \t\t\ta view of my company.\n\tPhil I want to know Christ and the power of his\n\t3:10 \tresurrection and the fellowship of sharing in\n\tNIV\t\this sufferings, becoming like him in his death\t\n',
'From: seanna@bnr.ca (Seanna (S.M.) Watson)\nSubject: Re: "Accepting Jeesus in your heart..."\nOrganization: Bell-Northern Research, Ottawa, Canada\nLines: 48\n\nIn article <Apr.14.03.07.38.1993.5420@athos.rutgers.edu> johnsd2@rpi.edu writes:\n>In article 28388@athos.rutgers.edu, jayne@mmalt.guild.org (Jayne Kulikauskas) writes:\n>\n>> Drugs are a replacement for Christ.\n>>Those who have an empty spot in the God-shaped hole in their hearts must \n>>do something to ease the pain.\n>\n>I have heard this claim quite a few times. Does anybody here know\n>who first came up with the "God-shaped hole" business?\n>\n>> This is why the most effective \n>>substance-abuse recovery programs involve meeting peoples\' spiritual \n>>needs.\n>\n>You might want to provide some evidence next time you make a claim\n>like this.\n>\nIn 12-step programs (like Alcoholics Anonymous), one of the steps\ninvolves acknowleding a "higher power". AA and other 12-step abuse-\nrecovery programs are acknowledged as being among the most effective.\n\nUnfortunately, as evidence for God, this can be dismissed by stating\nthat the same defect of personality makes substance abusers as makes \npeople \'religious\', and the debunker could perhaps acknowledge that\nbeing religious is a better crutch than being a drug addict, but\nstill maintain that both are escapism. (And I suspect that there\nare some atheists who would find the substance abuse preferable to\nChristianity.)\n\nI think that an essential problem with communication between Christ-\nians and atheists is that as Christians we necessarily see ourselves\nas incomplete, and needing God (the \'God-shaped hole\'), while atheists\nnecessarily see themselves as self-sufficient. If the atheists are\nright, Christians are guilty of being morally weak, and too cowardly\nto stand up for themselves; if the Christians are right, the atheists\nare guilty of considerable arrogance. (I use the term atheist to\nrefer to a person who has a definite conviction that there is no God,\nas opposed to one who does not know and/or does not care about God.)\n==\nSeanna Watson Bell-Northern Research, | Pray that at the end of living,\n(seanna@bnr.ca) Ottawa, Ontario, Canada | Of philosophies and creeds,\n | God will find his people busy\nOpinion, what opinions? Oh *these* opinions. | Planting trees and sowing seeds.\nNo, they\'re not BNR\'s, they\'re mine. |\nI knew I\'d left them somewhere. | --Fred Kaan\n\n(let\'s see...I spelled \'sowing\' right; I got the author\'s name right--maybe\nmy 3rd iteration .sig will be a keeper.)\n',
'From: sandvik@newton.apple.com (Kent Sandvik)\nSubject: Re: New Member\nOrganization: Cookamunga Tourist Bureau\nLines: 20\n\nIn article <C5HIEw.7s1@portal.hq.videocart.com>,\ndfuller@portal.hq.videocart.com (Dave Fuller) wrote:\n> He is right. Just because an event was explained by a human to have been\n> done "in the name of religion", does not mean that it actually followed\n> the religion. He will always point to the "ideal" and say that it wasn\'t\n> followed so it can\'t be the reason for the event. There really is no way\n> to argue with him, so why bother. Sure, you may get upset because his \n> answer is blind and not supported factually - but he will win every time\n> with his little argument. I don\'t think there will be any postings from\n> me in direct response to one of his.\n\nHey! Glad to have some serious and constructive contributors in this\nnewsgroup. I agree 100% on the statement above, you might argue with\nBobby for eons, and he still does not get it, so the best thing is\nto spare your mental resources to discuss more interesting issues.\n\nCheers,\nKent\n---\nsandvik@newton.apple.com. ALink: KSAND -- Private activities on the net.\n',
"From: rgc3679@bcstec.ca.boeing.com (Robert G. Carpenter)\nSubject: Re: Please Recommend 3D Graphics Library For Mac.\nOrganization: Boeing\nLines: 24\n\nIn article <John_Shepardson.esh-210493100336@moose.slac.stanford.edu> John_Shepardson.esh@qmail.slac.stanford.edu (John Shepardson) writes:\n>> Can you please offer some recommendations? (3d graphics)\n>\n>\n>There has been a fantastic 3d programmers package for some years that has\n>been little advertised, and apparently nobody knows about, called 3d\n>Graphic Tools written by Mark Owen of Micro System Options in Seattle WA. \n>I reviewed it a year or so ago and was really awed by it's capabilities. \n>It also includes tons of code for many aspects of Mac programming\n>(including offscreen graphics). It does Zbuffering, 24 bit graphics, has a\n>database for representing graphical objects, and more.\n>It is very well written (MPW C, Think C, and HyperCard) and the code is\n>highly reusable. Last time I checked the price was around $150 - WELL\n>worth it.\n>\n>Their # is (206) 868-5418.\n\n I've talked with Mark and he faxed some literature, though it wasn't very helpful-\n just a list of routine names: _BSplineSurface, _DrawString3D... 241 names.\n There was a Product Info sheet that explained some of the package capabilities.\n I also found a review in April/May '92 MacTutor.\n\n It does look like a good package. The current price is $295 US.\n\n",
'From: Eugene.Bigelow@ebay.sun.com (Geno )\nSubject: Re: When are two people married in God\'s e\nReply-To: Eugene.Bigelow@ebay.sun.com\nOrganization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.\nLines: 8\n\n|In article <Apr.14.03.07.21.1993.5402@athos.rutgers.edu> >randerso@acad1.sahs.uth.tmc.edu (Robert Anderson) writes:\n|>I would like to get your opinions on this: when exactly does an engaged\n|>couple become "married" in God\'s eyes? \n\n|Not if they are unwilling to go through a public marriage ceremony,\n|nor if they say they are willing but have not actually done so.\n\n How do you know this?\n',
'From: johnsd2@rpi.edu (Dan Johnson)\nSubject: Re: Atheists and Hell\nReply-To: johnsd2@rpi.edu\nOrganization: not Sun Microsystems\nLines: 38\n\nIn article 29279@athos.rutgers.edu, atterlep@vela.acs.oakland.edu (Cardinal Ximenez) writes:\n\n> I have seen two common threads running through postings by atheists on the \n>newsgroup, and I think that they can be used to explain each other. \n>Unfortunately I don\'t have direct quotes handy...\n\n>1) Atheists believe that when they die, they die forever.\n\n>2) A god who would condemn those who fail to believe in him to eternal death\n> is unfair.\n\n> I don\'t see what the problem is! To Christians, Hell is, by definition, \n>eternal death--exactly what atheists are expecting when they die.\n\nThis is the problem. This is not hell, this is permanent death. It is\nindeed what atheists (generally) expect and it is neither fair nor\nunfair, it just is. You might as well argue about whether being made\nmostly of carbon and water is "fair".\n\nHowever, the atheists who claim that Hell is unfair are talking about\nthe fire and brimstone place of endless suffering, which necessarily\nincludes eternal existance (life, I dunno, but some sort of continuation);\nnot at all the same thing.\n\nGranted, you clearly feel that hell=death, but this is not a univeral\nsentiment as near as I can tell.\n\nIf *your* idea of God "condemns" heathens to ordinary death, I have no\nproblem with that. I do have a problem with the gods that hide from humans\nand torture the unbelievers eternally for not guessing right.\n\n[deletia- Hell, and Literalness.]\n\n---\n\t\t\t- Dan Johnson\nAnd God said "Jeeze, this is dull"... and it *WAS* dull. Genesis 0:0\n\nThese opinions probably show what I know.\n',
"From: sherry@a.cs.okstate.edu (SHERRY ROBERT MICH)\nSubject: Re: .SCF files, help needed\nOrganization: Oklahoma State University\nLines: 27\n\nFrom article <1993Apr21.013846.1374@cx5.com>, by tlc@cx5.com:\n> \n> \n> I've got an old demo disk that I need to view. It was made using RIX Softworks. \n> The files on the two diskette set end with: .scf\n> \n> The demo was VGA resolution (256 colors), but I don't know the spatial \n> resolution.\n> \n\nAccording to my ColoRIX manual .SCF files are 640x480x256\n\n> First problem: When I try to run the demo, the screen has two black bars that \n> cut across (horizontally) the screen, in the top third and bottom third of the \n> screen. The bars are about 1-inch wide. Other than this, the demo (the \n> animation part) seems to be running fine.\n> \n> Second problem: I can't find any graphics program that will open and display \n> these files. I have a couple of image conversion programs, none mention .scf \n> files.\n> \n\nYou may try VPIC, I think it handles the 256 color RIX files OK..\n\n\nRob Sherry\nsherry@a.cs.okstate.edu\n",
'Subject: Omnipotence (was Re: Speculations)\nFrom: jbrown@batman.bmd.trw.com\nLines: 55\n\nIn article <2942949719.2.p00261@psilink.com>, "Robert Knowles" <p00261@psilink.com> writes:\n>>DATE: Fri, 2 Apr 1993 23:02:22 -0500\n>>FROM: Nanci Ann Miller <nm0w+@andrew.cmu.edu>\n>>\n>>\n>>> > 3. Can god uncreate itself?\n>>> \n>>> No. For if He did, He would violate His own nature which He cannot do.\n>>> It is God\'s nature to Exist. He is, after all, the "I AM" which is\n>>> a statement of His inherent Existence. He is existence itself.\n>>> Existence cannot "not-exist".\n>>\n>>Then, as mentioned above, he must not be very omnipotent.\n>>\n\nWhat do you mean by omnipotent here? Do you mean by "omnipotent"\nthat God should be able to do anything/everything? This creates\na self-contradictory definition of omnipotence which is effectively\nuseless.\n\nTo be descriptive, omnipotence must mean "being all-powerful" and\nnot "being able to do anything/everything".\n\nLet me illustrate by analogy.\nSuppose the United States were the only nuclear power on earth. Suppose\nfurther that the US military could not effectively be countered by any\nnation or group of nations. The US has the power to go into any country\nat any time for any reason to straighten things out as the leaders of the\nUS see fit. The US would be militarily "omnipotent".\n\nBut suppose further that the US holds to a doctrine/philosophy of not\ninterfering in the internal affairs of any nation, such as the current\ncivil war in the former Yugoslavian states.\n\nTechnically (in this scenario) the US would have the power to \nunilaterally go into Yugoslavia and straighten out the mess. But\neffectively the US could not intervene without violating its own policy \nof non-interference. If the policy of non-interference were held to\nstrongly enough, then there would never be a question that it would\never be violated. Effectively, the US would be limited in what it\ncould actually do, although it had the power to do "whatever it wanted".\nThe US would simply "never want to interfere" for such an idea would\nbe beyond the consideration of its leaders given such an inviolate\nnon-interference policy.\n\nGod is effectively limited in the same sense. He is all powerful, but\nHe cannot use His power in a way that would violate the essence of what\nHe, Himself is.\n\nI hope this helps to clear up some of the misunderstanding concerning\nomnipotence.\n\nRegards,\n\nJim B.\n',
'From: renggli@masg1.epfl.ch (loris renggli)\nSubject: Need graph display/edit\nOrganization: Math. Dept., Swiss Institute of Technology\nLines: 17\n\nI am looking for a program that is capable of displaying a graph\nwith nodes and links and with the possibility to edit interactively\nthe graph : add one node, change one link etc...\n\nActually, a very _simple_ X11 program would be ok; all I need is to\nput some "boxes" (i.e. the nodes ) on a pane and be able to\nmanipulate them with the mouse (move, add or delete boxes).\n\nDoes anyone know if such program is available ?\nThanks for any help !!\n\n------------------------------------------------------------------------\nLoris RENGGLI phone : +41-21-6934230\nSwiss Federal Institute of Technology fax : +41-21-6934303\nMath. Dept\nCH-1015 Lausanne (Switzerland) e-mail : renggli@masg1.epfl.ch\n\n',
'From: mccullou@snake2.cs.wisc.edu (Mark McCullough)\nSubject: Re: Idle questions for fellow atheists\nOrganization: University of Wisconsin, Madison -- Computer Sciences Dept.\nLines: 43\n\nIn article <1993Apr5.124216.4374@mac.cc.macalstr.edu> acooper@mac.cc.macalstr.edu writes:\n>\n>I wonder how many atheists out there care to speculate on the face of the world\n>if atheists were the majority rather than the minority group of the population. \n\nProbably we would have much the same problems with only a slight shift in\nemphasis. Weekends might not be so inviolate (more common to work 7 days\na week in a business), and instead of American Atheists, we would have\nsimilar, religious organizations. A persons religious belief seems more\nas a crutch and justification for actions than a guide to determine actions.\nOf course, people would have to come up with more fascinating \nrationalizations for their actions, but that could be fun to watch...\n\nIt seems to me, that for most people, religion in America doesn\'t matter\nthat much. You have extreemists on both ends, but a large majority don\'t\nmake too much of an issue about it as long as you don\'t. Now, admittedly,\nI have never had to suffer the "Bible Belt", but I am just north of it\nand see the fringes, and the reasonable people in most things tend to be\nreasonable in religion as well. \n\n\n>Also, how many atheists out there would actually take the stance and accor a\n>higher value to their way of thinking over the theistic way of thinking. The\n>typical selfish argument would be that both lines of thinking evolved from the\n>same inherent motivation, so one is not, intrinsically, different from the\n>other, qualitatively. But then again a measuring stick must be drawn\n>somewhere, and if we cannot assign value to a system of beliefs at its core,\n>than the only other alternative is to apply it to its periphery; ie, how it\n>expresses its own selfishness.\n>\n\nI don\'t bother according a higher value to my thinking, or just about\nanybodys thinking. I don\'t want to fall in that trap. Because if you \ndo start that, then you are then to decide which is better, says whom,\nwhy, is there a best, and also what to do about those who have inferior\nmodes of thinking. IDIC (Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combinations.)\nI\'ll argue it over a soda, but not over much more.\n\nJust my $.12 (What inflation has done...)\n\nM^2\n\n\n',
'From: david@stat.com (David Dodell)\nSubject: HICN610 Medical News Part 3/4\nReply-To: david@stat.com (David Dodell)\nDistribution: world\nOrganization: Stat Gateway Service, WB7TPY\nLines: 708\n\n\n------------- cut here -----------------\nUniversity of Arizona\nTucson, Arizona\n\n\n\n Suggested Reading\n\nTan SL, Royston P, Campbell S, Jacobs HS, Betts J, Mason B, Edwards RG (1992). \nCumulative conception and Livebirth rates after in-vitro fertilization. Lancet \n339:1390-1394. \n\nFor further information, call:\n Physicians\' Resource Line\n 1-800-328-5868\n in Tucson:\n 694-5868\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\nHICNet Medical Newsletter Page 28\nVolume 6, Number 10 April 20, 1993\n\n\n\n::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::\n Articles\n::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::\n\n LOW LEVELS OF AIRBORNE PARTICLES LINKED\n TO SERIOUS ASTHMA ATTACKS\n American Lung Association \n\n A new study published by the American Lung Association has shown that \nsurprisingly low concentrations of airborne particles can send people with \nasthma rushing to emergency rooms for treatment. \n The Seattle-based study showed that roughly one in eight emergency visits \nfor asthma in that city was linked to exposure to particulate air pollution. \nThe actual exposure levels recorded in the study were far below those deemed \nunsafe under federal air quality laws. \n "People with asthma have inflamed airways, and airborne particles tend to \nexacerbate that inflammation," said Joel Schwartz, Ph.D., of the Environmental \nProtection Agency, who was the lead author of the study. "When people are on \nthe threshold of having, a serious asthma attack, particles can push them over \nthe edge." \n The Seattle Study correlated 13 months of asthma emergency room visits \nwith daily levels of PM,,,. or particulate matter with an aerodynamic diameter \nof 10 microns or less. These finer particles are considered hazardous because \nthey are small enough penetrate into the lung. Cities are considered out of \ncompliance with clean air laws if the 24-hour average concentration of PM10 \nexceeds 150 micrograms per cubic millimeter of air. \n In Seattle however, a link between fine particles and asthma was found at \nlevels as low as 30 micrograms. The authors concluded that for every 30 \nmicrogram increase in the four-day average of PM10, the odds of someone with \nasthma needing emergency treatment increased by 12 percent. \n The findings were published in the April American Review of Respiratory \nDisease, an official journal of the American Thoracic Society, the Lung \nAssociation\'s medical section. \n The study is the latest in a series of recent reports to suggest that \nparticulate matter is a greatly under appreciated health threat. A 1992 study \nby Dr. Schwartz and Douglas Dockery, Ph.D., of Harvard found that particles \nmay be causing roughly 60,000 premature deaths each year in the United States. \nOther studies have linked particulate matter to increased respiratory symptoms \nand bronchitis in children. \n "Government officials and the media are still very focused on ozone," \nsays Dr. Schwartz. "But more and more research is showing that particles are \nbad actors as well." One problem in setting, standards for particulate \nair pollution is that PMIO is difficult to study. Unlike other regulated \npollutants such as ozone and carbon monoxide, particulate matter is a complex \nand varying mixture of substances, including carbon, hydrocarbons, dust, and \n\nHICNet Medical Newsletter Page 29\nVolume 6, Number 10 April 20, 1993\n\nacid aerosols. \n "Researchers can\'t Put people in exposure chambers to study the effects \nof particulate air pollution," says Dr. Schwartz. "We have no way of \nduplicating the typical urban mix of particles. " Consequently, most of what \nis known about particulates has been learned through population-based research \nlike the Seattle study. \n Given that the EPA\'s current priority is to review the ozone and sulfur \ndioxide standards, the agency is unlikely to reexamine the PM10 standard any \ntime soon. Until changes are made, there appears to be little people with \nasthma can do to protect themselves from airborne particles.\n "In some areas, you can get reports on air quality, but the reports only \ncover the pollutant that is closest to violating its standard, and that\'s \nrarely particulate matter," says Dr. Schwartz. "However, PM10 doesn\'t have \nto be near its violation range to be unhealthy."\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\nHICNet Medical Newsletter Page 30\nVolume 6, Number 10 April 20, 1993\n\n NIH Consensus Development Conference on Melanoma\n\nThe National Institutes of Health Consensus Development Conference on \nDiagnosis and Treatment of Early Melanoma brought together experts in \ndermatology, pathology, epidemiology, public education, surveillance \ntechniques, and potential new technologies as well as other health care \nprofessionals and the public to address (1) the clinical and histological \ncharacteristics of early melanoma; (2) the appropriate diagnosis, management, \nand followup of patients with early melanoma; (3) the role of dysplastic nevi \nand their significance; and (4) the role of education and screening in \npreventing melanoma morbidity and mortality. Following 2 days of \npresentations by experts and discussion by the audience, a consensus panel \nweighed the scientific evidence and prepared their consensus statement. \n \nAmong their findings, the panel recommended that (1) melanoma in situ is a \ndistinct entity effectively treated surgically with 0.5 centimeter margins; \n(2) thin invasive melanoma, less than 1 millimeter thick, has the potential \nfor long-term survival in more than 90 percent of patients after surgical \nexcision with a 1 centimeter margin; (3) elective lymph node dissections and \nextensive staging evaluations are not recommended in early melanoma; (4) \npatients with early melanoma are at low risk for relapse but may be at high \nrisk for development of subsequent melanomas and should be followed closely; \n(5) some family members of patients with melanoma are at increased risk for \nmelanoma and should be enrolled in surveillance programs; and (6) education \nand screening programs have the potential to decrease morbidity and mortality \nfrom melanoma. \n \nA copy of the full text of the consensus panel\'s statement is available by \ncalling the NIH Office of Medical Applications of Research at (301) 496-1143 \nor by writing to: Office of Medical Applications of Research, National \nInstitutes of Health, Federal Building, Room 618, Bethesda, MD 20892.\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\nHICNet Medical Newsletter Page 31\nVolume 6, Number 10 April 20, 1993\n\n NCI-Designated Cancer Centers\n\nThe Cancer Centers Program is comprised of 55 NCI-designated Cancer Centers \nactively engaged in multidisciplinary research efforts to reduce cancer \nincidence, morbidity, and mortality. Within the program, there are four types \nof cancer centers: basic science cancer centers (14), which engage primarily \nin basic cancer research; clinical cancer centers (12), which focus on \nclinical research; "comprehensive" cancer centers (28), which emphasize a \nmultidisciplinary approach to cancer research, patient care, and community \noutreach; and consortium cancer centers (1), which specialize in cancer \nprevention and control research. \n \nAlthough some cancer centers existed in the late 1960s and the 1970s, it was \nthe National Cancer Act of 1971 that authorized the establishment of 15 new \ncancer centers, as well as continuing support for existing ones. The passage \nof the act also dramatically transformed the centers\' structure and broadened \nthe scope of their mission to include all aspects of basic, clinical, and \ncancer control research. Over the next two decades, the centers\' program grew \nprogressively. \n \nIn 1990, there were 19 comprehensive cancer centers in the nation. Today, \nthere are 28 of these institutions, all of which meet specific NCI criteria \nfor comprehensive status. \n \nTo attain recognition from the NCI as a comprehensive cancer center, an \ninstitution must pass rigorous peer review. Under guidelines newly \nestablished in 1990, the eight criteria for "comprehensiveness" include the \nrequirement that a center have a strong core of basic laboratory research in \nseveral scientific fields, such as biology and molecular genetics, a strong \nprogram of clinical research, and an ability to transfer research findings \ninto clinical practice. \n \nMoreover, five of the criteria for comprehensive status go significantly \nbeyond that required for attaining a Cancer Center Support Grant (also \nreferred to as a P30 or core grant), the mechanism of choice for supporting \nthe infrastructure of a cancer center\'s operations. These criteria encompass \nstrong participation in NCI-designated high-priority clinical trials, \nsignificant levels of cancer prevention and control research, and important \noutreach and educational activities--all of which are funded by a variety of \nsources. \n \nThe other types of cancer centers also have special characteristics and \ncapabilities for organizing new programs of research that can exploit \nimportant new findings or address timely research questions. \n \n\nHICNet Medical Newsletter Page 32\nVolume 6, Number 10 April 20, 1993\n\nOf the 55 NCI-designated Cancer Centers, 14 are of the basic science type. \nThese centers engage almost entirely in basic research, although some centers \nengage in collaborative research with outside clinical research investigators \nand in cooperative projects with industry to generate medical applications \nfrom new discoveries in the laboratory. \n \nClinical cancer centers, in contrast, focus on both basic research and \nclinical research within the same institutional framework, and frequently \nincorporate nearby affiliated clinical research institutions into their \noverall research programs. There are 12 such centers today. \n \nFinally, consortium cancer centers, of which there is one, are uniquely \nstructured and concentrate on clinical research and cancer prevention and \ncontrol research. These centers interface with state and local public health \ndepartments for the purpose of achieving the transfer of effective prevention \nand control techniques from their research findings to those institutions \nresponsible for implementing population-wide public health programs. \nConsortium centers also are heavily engaged in collaborations with \ninstitutions that conduct clinical trial research and coordinate community \nhospitals within a network of cooperating institutions in clinical trials. \n \nTogether, the 55 NCI-Designated Cancer Centers continue to work toward \ncreating new and innovative approaches to cancer research, and through \ninterdisciplinary efforts, to effectively move this research from the \nlaboratory into clinical trials and into clinical practice. \n \nComprehensive Cancer Centers (Internet addresses are given where available) \n \nUniversity of Alabama at Birmingham Comprehensive Cancer Center\nBasic Health Sciences Building, Room 108\n1918 University Boulevard\nBirmingham, Alabama 35294\n(205) 934-6612\n \nUniversity of Arizona Cancer Center\n1501 North Campbell Avenue\nTucson, Arizona 85724\n(602) 626-6372\nInternet: syd@azcc.arizona.edu\n \nJonsson Comprehensive Cancer Center\nUniversity of California at Los Angeles\n200 Medical Plaza\nLos Angeles, California 90027\n(213) 206-0278\n\nHICNet Medical Newsletter Page 33\nVolume 6, Number 10 April 20, 1993\n\nInternet: rick@jccc.medsch.ucla.edu\n \nKenneth T. Norris Jr. Comprehensive Cancer Center\nUniversity of Southern California\n1441 Eastlake Avenue\nLos Angeles, California 90033-0804\n(213) 226-2370\n \nYale University Comprehensive Cancer Center\n333 Cedar Street\nNew Haven, Connecticut 06510\n(203) 785-6338\n \nLombardi Cancer Research Center\nGeorgetown University Medical Center\n3800 Reservoir Road, N.W.\nWashington, D.C. 20007\n(202) 687-2192\n \nSylvester Comprehensive Cancer Center\nUniversity of Miami Medical School\n1475 Northwest 12th Avenue\nMiami, Florida 33136\n(305) 548-4800\nInternet: hlam@mednet.med.miami.edu\n \nJohns Hopkins Oncology Center\n600 North Wolfe Street\nBaltimore, Maryland 21205\n(410) 955-8638\n \nDana-Farber Cancer Institute\n44 Binney Street\nBoston, Massachusetts 02115\n(617) 732-3214\nInternet: Kristie_Stevenson@macmailgw.dfci.harvard.edu\n \nMeyer L. Prentis Comprehensive Cancer Center of Metropolitan\nDetroit\n110 East Warren Avenue\nDetroit, Michigan 48201\n(313) 745-4329\nInternet: cummings%oncvx1.dnet@rocdec.roc.wayne.edu\n \nUniversity of Michigan Cancer Center\n\nHICNet Medical Newsletter Page 34\nVolume 6, Number 10 April 20, 1993\n\n101 Simpson Drive\nAnn Arbor, Michigan 48109-0752\n(313) 936-9583\nBITNET: kallie.bila.michels@um.cc.umich.edu\n \nMayo Comprehensive Cancer Center\n200 First Street Southwest\nRochester, Minnesota 55905\n(507) 284-3413\n \nNorris Cotton Cancer Center\nDartmouth-Hitchcock Medical Center\nOne Medical Center Drive\nLebanon, New Hampshire 03756\n(603) 646-5505\nBITNET: edward.bresnick@dartmouth.edu\n \nRoswell Park Cancer Institute\nElm and Carlton Streets\nBuffalo, New York 14263\n(716) 845-4400\n \nColumbia University Comprehensive Cancer Center\nCollege of Physicians and Surgeons\n630 West 168th Street\nNew York, New York 10032\n(212) 305-6905\nInternet: janie@cuccfa.ccc.columbia.edu\n \nMemorial Sloan-Kettering Cancer Center\n1275 York Avenue\nNew York, New York 10021\n(800) 525-2225\n \nKaplan Cancer Center\nNew York University Medical Center\n462 First Avenue\nNew York, New York 10016-9103\n(212) 263-6485\n \nUNC Lineberger Comprehensive Cancer Center\nUniversity of North Carolina School of Medicine\nChapel Hill, North Carolina 27599\n(919) 966-4431\n \n\nHICNet Medical Newsletter Page 35\nVolume 6, Number 10 April 20, 1993\n\nDuke Comprehensive Cancer Center\nP.O. Box 3814\nDurham, North Carolina 27710\n(919) 286-5515\n \nCancer Center of Wake Forest University at the Bowman Gray School\nof Medicine\n300 South Hawthorne Road\nWinston-Salem, North Carolina 27103\n(919) 748-4354\nInternet: ccwfumail@phs.bgsm.wfu.edu\n \nOhio State University Comprehensive Cancer Center\n300 West 10th Avenue\nColumbus, Ohio 43210\n(614) 293-5485\nInternet: dyoung@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu\n \nFox Chase Cancer Center\n7701 Burholme Avenue\nPhiladelphia, Pennsylvania 19111\n(215) 728-2570\nInternet: s_davis@fccc.edu\n \nUniversity of Pennsylvania Cancer Center\n3400 Spruce Street\nPhiladelphia, Pennsylvania 19104\n(215) 662-6364\n \nPittsburgh Cancer Institute\n200 Meyran Avenue\nPittsburgh, Pennsylvania 15213-2592\n(800) 537-4063\n \nThe University of Texas M.D. Anderson Cancer Center\n1515 Holcombe Boulevard\nHouston, Texas 77030\n(713) 792-3245\n \nVermont Cancer Center\nUniversity of Vermont\n1 South Prospect Street\nBurlington, Vermont 05401\n(802) 656-4580\n \n\nHICNet Medical Newsletter Page 36\nVolume 6, Number 10 April 20, 1993\n\nFred Hutchinson Cancer Research Center\n1124 Columbia Street\nSeattle, Washington 98104\n(206) 667-4675\nInternet: sedmonds@cclink.fhcrc.org\n \nUniversity of Wisconsin Comprehensive Cancer Center\n600 Highland Avenue\nMadison, Wisconsin 53792\n(608) 263-8600\nBITNET: carbone@uwccc.biostat.wisc.edu\n \n \n \nClinical Cancer Centers\n \n \nUniversity of California at San Diego Cancer Center\n225 Dickinson Street\nSan Diego, California 92103\n(619) 543-6178\nInternet: dedavis@ucsd.edu\n \nCity of Hope National Medical Center\nBeckman Research Institute\n1500 East Duarte Road\nDuarte, California 91010\n(818) 359-8111 ext. 2292\n \nUniversity of Colorado Cancer Center\n4200 East 9th Avenue, Box B188\nDenver, Colorado 80262\n(303) 270-7235\n \nUniversity of Chicago Cancer Research Center\n5841 South Maryland Avenue, Box 444\nChicago, Illinois 60637\n(312) 702-6180\nInternet: judith@delphi.bsd.uchicago.edu\n \nAlbert Einstein College of Medicine\n1300 Morris Park Avenue\nBronx, New York 10461\n(212) 920-4826\n \n\nHICNet Medical Newsletter Page 37\nVolume 6, Number 10 April 20, 1993\n\nUniversity of Rochester Cancer Center\n601 Elmwood Avenue, Box 704\nRochester, New York 14642\n(716) 275-4911\nInternet: rickb@wotan.medicine.rochester.edu\n \nIreland Cancer Center Case Western Reserve University\nUniversity Hospitals of Cleveland\n2074 Abington Road\nCleveland, Ohio 44106\n(216) 844-5432\n \nRoger Williams Cancer Center\nBrown University\n825 Chalkstone Avenue\nProvidence, Rhode Island 02908\n(401) 456-2071\n \nSt. Jude Children\'s Research Hospital\n332 North Lauderdale Street\nMemphis, Tennessee 38101-0318\n(901) 522-0306\nInternet: meyer@mbcf.stjude.org\n \nInstitute for Cancer Research and Care\n4450 Medical Drive\nSan Antonio, Texas 78229\n(512) 616-5580\n \nUtah Regional Cancer Center\nUniversity of Utah Health Sciences Center\n50 North Medical Drive, Room 2C110\nSalt Lake City, Utah 84132\n(801) 581-4048\nBITNET: hogan@cc.utah.edu\n \nMassey Cancer Center\nMedical College of Virginia\nVirginia Commonwealth University\n1200 East Broad Street\nRichmond, Virginia 23298\n(804) 786-9641\n \n \nConsortia\n\nHICNet Medical Newsletter Page 38\nVolume 6, Number 10 April 20, 1993\n\n \nDrew-Meharry-Morehouse Consortium Cancer Center\n1005 D.B. Todd Boulevard\nNashville, Tennessee 37208\n(615) 327-6927\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\nHICNet Medical Newsletter Page 39\nVolume 6, Number 10 April 20, 1993\n\n\n\n::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::\n General Announcments\n::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::\n\n THE UCI MEDICAL EDUCATION SOFTWARE REPOSITORY \n\nThis is to announce the establishment of an FTP site at the University of \nCalifornia, for the collection of shareware, public-domain software and other \ninformation relating to Medical Education. \n\nSpecifically, we are interested in establishing this site as a clearinghouse \nfor personally developed software that has been developed for local medical \neducation programs. We welcome all contributions that may be shared with \nother users. \n\nTo connect to the UCI Medical Education Software Repository, ftp to: \n\n FTP.UCI.EDU\n\nThe Repository currently offers both MSDOS and Macintosh software, and we hope \nto support other operating systems (UNIX, MUMPS, AMIGA?). \n\nUploads are welcome. We actively solicit information and software which you \nhave personaly developed or have found useful in your local medical education \nefforts, either as an instructor or student. \n\nOnce you have connected to the site via FTP, cd (change directory) to either \nthe med-ed/mac/incoming or the med-ed/msdos/incoming directories, change the \nmode to binary and "send" or "put" your files. Note that you won\'t be able to \nsee the files with the "ls" or "dir" commands. Please compress your files as \nappropriate to the operating system (ZIP for MSDOS; Compactor or something \nsimilar for Macintosh) to save disk space. \n\nAfter uploading, please send email to Steve Clancy (slclancy@uci.edu) (for \nMSDOS) or Albert Saisho (saisho@uci.edu) (for MAC) describing the file(s) you \nhave uploaded and any other information we might need to describe it.\n\nNote that we can only accept software or information that has been designated \nas shareware, public-domain or that may otherwise be distributed freely. \nPlease do not upload commercial software! Doing so may jeopardize the \nexistence of this FTP site. \n\nIf you wish to upload software for other operating systems, please contact \neither Steve Clancy, M.L.S. or Albert Saisho, M.D. at the addresses above.\n\nHICNet Medical Newsletter Page 40\nVolume 6, Number 10 April 20, 1993\n\n\n\n::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::\n AIDS News Summaries\n::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::\n\n AIDS Daily Summary\n\nThe Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) National AIDS \nClearinghouse makes available the following information as a public service \nonly. Providing this information does not constitute endorsement by the CDC, \nthe CDC Clearinghouse, or any other organization. Reproduction of this text \nis encouraged; however, copies may not be sold. Copyright 1993, Information, \nInc., Bethesda, MD \n\n ================================================================== \n April 12, 1993 \n ================================================================== \n\n"NIH Set to Test Multiple AIDS Vaccines" Reuters (04/08/93) (Frank, \nJacqueline) \n\n Washington--The Clinton administration will permit the National \nInstitutes of Health to test multiple AIDS vaccines instead of only allowing \nthe Army to test a single vaccine, administration sources said Thursday. The \ndecision ends the controversy between Army AIDS researchers who had hoped to \ntest a vaccine made by MicroGeneSys Inc. and the National Institutes of \nHealth, which contended that multiple vaccines should be tested. Health and \nHuman Services Secretary Donna Shalala said a final announcement on the \ntherapeutic vaccine trials was expected to be made last Friday. Companies \nincluding Genentech Inc., Chiron Corp., and Immuno AG have already told NIH \nthat they are prepared to participate in the vaccine tests. The testing is \nintended to demonstrate whether AIDS vaccines are effective in thwarting the \nreplication of HIV in patients already infected. Shalala refuted last week\'s \nreports that the Clinton administration had decided the Army\'s test of the \nMicroGeneSys VaxSyn should proceed without tests of others at the same time. \n"The report was inaccurate, and I expect there to be some announcement in the \nnext 24 hours about that particular AIDS research project," said Shalala. \nAdministration sources subsequently confirmed that NIH director Dr. Bernadine \nHealy and Food and Drug Administration Commissioner David Kessler had \nconvinced the White House that multiple vaccines should be tested \nsimultaneously. But MicroGeneSys president Frank Volvovitz said a test of \nmultiple vaccines could triple the cost of the trial and delay it by two \nyears.\n\n================================================================== \n\n\nHICNet Medical Newsletter Page 41\nVolume 6, Number 10 April 20, 1993\n\n"The Limits of AZT\'s Impact on HIV" U.S. News & World Report (04/12/93) Vol. \n114, No. 14, P. 18 \n\n AZT has become the most widely used drug to fight AIDS since it was \napproved by the Food and Drug Administration in 1987. Burroughs Wellcome, \nthe manufacturer of AZT, made $338 million last year alone from sales of the \ndrug. However, a team of European researchers recently reported that \nalthough HIV-positive patients taking AZT demonstrated a slightly lower risk \nof developing AIDS within the first year of treatment, that benefit \ndisappeared two years later. The Lancet published preliminary findings of \nthe three-year study, which could give more reason for critics to argue the \ndrug\'s cost, side effects, and general efficacy. Even though U.S. \nresearchers concede the study was more comprehensive than American trials, \nmany argue the European researchers\' suggestion that HIV-positive patients \nexperience little improvement in their illness before the development of \nAIDS symptoms. In addition, researchers have long been familiar with the \n--------- end of part 3 ------------\n\n---\n Internet: david@stat.com FAX: +1 (602) 451-1165\n Bitnet: ATW1H@ASUACAD FidoNet=> 1:114/15\n Amateur Packet ax25: wb7tpy@wb7tpy.az.usa.na\n',
'From: kempmp@phoenix.oulu.fi (Petri Pihko)\nSubject: Re: Concerning God\'s Morality (long)\nOrganization: University of Oulu, Finland\nX-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]\nLines: 215\n\nThis kind of argument cries for a comment...\n\njbrown@batman.bmd.trw.com wrote:\n: In article <1993Apr3.095220.24632@leland.Stanford.EDU>, galahad@leland.Stanford.EDU (Scott Compton) writes:\n\nJim, you originally wrote:\n \n: >>...God did not create\n: >>disease nor is He responsible for the maladies of newborns.\n: > \n: >>What God did create was life according to a protein code which is\n: >>mutable and can evolve. Without delving into a deep discussion of\n: >>creationism vs evolutionism, God created the original genetic code\n: >>perfect and without flaw. \n: > ~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~ ~~~~\n\nDo you have any evidence for this? If the code was once perfect, and\nhas degraded ever since, we _should_ have some evidence in favour\nof this statement, shouldn\'t we?\n\nPerhaps the biggest "imperfection" of the code is that it is full\nof non-coding regions, introns, which are so called because they\nintervene with the coding regions (exons). An impressive amount of\nevidence suggests that introns are of very ancient origin; it is\nlikely that early exons represented early protein domains.\n\nIs the number of introns decreasing or increasing? It appears that\nintron loss can occur, and species with common ancestry usually\nhave quite similar exon-intron structure in their genes. \n\nOn the other hand, the possibility that introns have been inserted\nlater, presents several logical difficulties. Introns are removed\nby a splicing mechanism - this would have to be present, but unused,\nif introns are inserted. Moreover, intron insertion would have\nrequired _precise_ targeting - random insertion would not be tolerated,\nsince sequences for intron removal (self-splicing of mRNA) are\nconserved. Besides, transposition of a sequence usually leaves a\ntrace - long terminal repeats and target - site duplications, and\nthese are not found in or near intron sequences. \n\nI seriously recommend reading textbooks on molecular biology and\ngenetics before posting "theological arguments" like this. \nTry Watson\'s Molecular Biology of the Gene or Darnell, Lodish\n& Baltimore\'s Molecular Biology of the Cell for starters.\n\n: Remember, the question was posed in a theological context (Why does\n: God cause disease in newborns?), and my answer is likewise from a\n: theological perspective -- my own. It is no less valid than a purely\n: scientific perspective, just different.\n\nScientific perspective is supported by the evidence, whereas \ntheological perspectives often fail to fulfil this criterion.\n \n: I think you misread my meaning. I said God made the genetic code perfect,\n: but that doesn\'t mean it\'s perfect now. It has certainly evolved since.\n\nFor the worse? Would you please cite a few references that support\nyour assertion? Your assertion is less valid than the scientific\nperspective, unless you support it by some evidence.\n\nIn fact, it has been claimed that parasites and diseases are perhaps\nmore important than we\'ve thought - for instance, sex might\nhave evolved as defence against parasites. (This view is supported by\ncomputer simulations of evolution, eg Tierra.) \n \n: Perhaps. I thought it was higher energy rays like X-rays, gamma\n: rays, and cosmic rays that caused most of the damage.\n\nIn fact, it is thermal energy that does most of the damage, although\nit is usually mild and easily fixed by enzymatic action. \n\n: Actually, neither of us "knows" what the atmosphere was like at the\n: time when God created life. According to my recollection, most\n: biologists do not claim that life began 4 billion years ago -- after\n: all, that would only be a half billion years or so after the earth\n: was created. It would still be too primitive to support life. I\n: seem to remember a figure more like 2.5 to 3 billion years ago for\n: the origination of life on earth. Anyone with a better estimate?\n\nI\'d replace "created" with "formed", since there is no need to \ninvoke any creator if the Earth can be formed without one.\nMost recent estimates of the age of the Earth range between 4.6 - 4.8\nbillion years, and earliest signs of life (not true fossils, but\norganic, stromatolite-like layers) date back to 3.5 billion years.\nThis would leave more than billion years for the first cells to\nevolve.\n\nI\'m sorry I can\'t give any references, this is based on the course\non evolutionary biochemistry I attended here. \n\n: >>dominion, it was no great feat for Satan to genetically engineer\n: >>diseases, both bacterial/viral and genetic. Although the forces of\n: >>natural selection tend to improve the survivability of species, the\n: >>degeneration of the genetic code tends to more than offset this. \n\nAgain, do you _want_ this be true, or do you have any evidence for\nthis supposed "degeneration"? \n\nI can understand Scott\'s reaction:\n\n: > Excuse me, but this is so far-fetched that I know you must be\n: > jesting. Do you know what pathogens are? Do you know what \n: > Point Mutations are? Do you know that EVERYTHING CAN COME\n: > ABOUT SPONTANEOUSLY?!!!!! \n: \n: In response to your last statement, no, and neither do you.\n: You may very well believe that and accept it as fact, but you\n: cannot *know* that.\n\nI hope you don\'t forget this: We have _evidence_ that suggests \neverything can come about spontaneously. Do you have evidence against\nthis conclusion? In science, one does not have to _believe_ in \nanything. It is a healthy sign to doubt and disbelieve. But the \nright path to walk is to take a look at the evidence if you do so,\nand not to present one\'s own conclusions prior to this. \n\nTheology does not use this method. Therefore, I seriously doubt\nit could ever come to right conclusions.\n\n: >>Human DNA, being more "complex", tends to accumulate errors adversely\n: >>affecting our well-being and ability to fight off disease, while the \n: >>simpler DNA of bacteria and viruses tend to become more efficient in \n: >>causing infection and disease. It is a bad combination. Hence\n: >>we have newborns that suffer from genetic, viral, and bacterial\n: >>diseases/disorders.\n\nYou are supposing a purpose, not a valid move. Bacteria and viruses\ndo not exist to cause disease. They are just another manifests of\na general principle of evolution - only replication saves replicators\nfrom degradiation. We are just an efficient method for our DNA to \nsurvive and replicate. The less efficient methods didn\'t make it \nto the present. \n\nAnd for the last time. Please present some evidence for your claim that\nhuman DNA is degrading through evolutionary processes. Some people have\nclaimed that the opposite is true - we have suppressed our selection,\nand thus are bound to degrade. I haven\'t seen much evidence for either\nclaim.\n \n: But then I ask, So? Where is this relevant to my discussion in\n: answering John\'s question of why? Why are there genetic diseases,\n: and why are there so many bacterial and viral diseases which require\n: babies to develop antibodies. Is it God\'s fault? (the original\n: question) -- I say no, it is not.\n\nOf course, nothing "evil" is god\'s fault. But your explanation does\nnot work, it fails miserably.\n \n: You may be right. But the fact is that you don\'t know that\n: Satan is not responsible, and neither do I.\n: \n: Suppose that a powerful, evil being like Satan exists. Would it\n: be inconceivable that he might be responsible for many of the ills\n: that affect mankind? I don\'t think so.\n\nHe could have done a much better Job. (Pun intended.) The problem is,\nit seems no Satan is necessary to explain any diseases, they are\njust as inevitable as any product of evolution.\n\n: Did I say that? Where? Seems to me like another bad inference.\n: Actually what you\'ve done is to oversimplify what I said to the\n: point that your summary of my words takes on a new context. I\n: never said that people are "meant" (presumably by God) "to be\n: punished by getting diseases". Why I did say is that free moral\n: choices have attendent consequences. If mankind chooses to reject\n: God, as people have done since the beginning, then they should not\n: expect God to protect them from adverse events in an entropic\n: universe.\n\nI am not expecting this. If god exists, I expect him to leave us alone.\nI would also like to hear why do you believe your choices are indeed\nfree. This is an interesting philosophical question, and the answer\nis not as clear-cut as it seems to be.\n\nWhat consequences would you expect from rejecting Allah?\n \n: Oh, I admit it\'s not perfect (yet). But I\'m working on it. :)\n\nA good library or a bookstore is a good starting point.\n\n: What does this have to do with the price of tea in China, or the\n: question to which I provided an answer? Biology and Genetics are\n: fine subjects and important scientific endeavors. But they explain\n: *how* God created and set up life processes. They don\'t explain\n: the why behind creation, life, or its subsequent evolution.\n\nWhy is there a "why behind"? And your proposition was something\nthat is not supported by the evidence. This is why we recommend\nthese books.\n\nIs there any need to invoke any why behind, a prime mover? Evidence\nfor this? If the whole universe can come into existence without\nany intervention, as recent cosmological theories (Hawking et al)\nsuggest, why do people still insist on this?\n \n: Thanks Scotty, for your fine and sagely advice. But I am\n: not highly motivated to learn all the nitty-gritty details\n: of biology and genetics, although I\'m sure I\'d find it a\n: fascinating subject. For I realize that the details do\n: not change the Big Picture, that God created life in the\n: beginning with the ability to change and adapt to its\n: environment.\n\nI\'m sorry, but they do. There is no evidence for your big picture,\nand no need to create anything that is capable of adaptation.\nIt can come into existence without a Supreme Being.\n\nTry reading P.W. Atkins\' Creation Revisited (Freeman, 1992).\n\nPetri\n--\n ___. .\'*\'\'.* Petri Pihko kem-pmp@ Mathematics is the Truth.\n!___.\'* \'.\'*\' \' . Pihatie 15 C finou.oulu.fi Physics is the Rule of\n \' *\' .* \'* SF-90650 OULU kempmp@ the Game.\n *\' * .* FINLAND phoenix.oulu.fi -> Chemistry is The Game.\n',
'From: pww@spacsun.rice.edu (Peter Walker)\nSubject: Re: Rawlins debunks creationism\nOrganization: I didn\'t do it, nobody saw me, you can\'t prove a thing.\nLines: 30\n\nIn article <1993Apr15.223844.16453@rambo.atlanta.dg.com>,\nwpr@atlanta.dg.com (Bill Rawlins) wrote:\n> \n> We are talking about origins, not merely science. Science cannot\n> explain origins. For a person to exclude anything but science from\n> the issue of origins is to say that there is no higher truth\n> than science. This is a false premise.\n\nSays who? Other than a hear-say god.\n\n> By the way, I enjoy science.\n\nYou sure don\'t understand it.\n\n> It is truly a wonder observing God\'s creation. Macroevolution is\n> a mixture of 15 percent science and 85 percent religion [guaranteed\n> within three percent error :) ]\n\nBill, I hereby award you the Golden Shovel Award for the biggist pile of\nbullshit I\'ve seen in a whils. I\'m afraid there\'s not a bit of religion in\nmacroevolution, and you\'ve made a rather grand statement that Science can\nnot explain origins; to a large extent, it already has!\n\n> // Bill Rawlins <wpr@atlanta.dg.com> //\n\nPeter W. Walker "Yu, shall I tell you what knowledge is? When \nDept. of Space Physics you know a thing, say that you know it. When \n and Astronomy you do not know a thing, admit you do not know\nRice University it. This is knowledge."\nHouston, TX - K\'ung-fu Tzu\n',
'From: geb@cs.pitt.edu (Gordon Banks)\nSubject: Re: My New Diet --> IT WORKS GREAT !!!!\nReply-To: geb@cs.pitt.edu (Gordon Banks)\nOrganization: Univ. of Pittsburgh Computer Science\nLines: 16\n\nIn article <1993Mar30.030105.26772@omen.UUCP> caf@omen.UUCP (Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX) writes:\n\n>Sometime in the future diet evangelists may get off their "our\n>diet will work if only the obese would obey it" mode and do\n>useful research to allow prediction of which types of diet might\n>be useful to a given individual.\n>\n\n"Diet Evangelist". Good term. Fits Atkins to a "T". \n\n\n-- \n----------------------------------------------------------------------------\nGordon Banks N3JXP | "Skepticism is the chastity of the intellect, and\ngeb@cadre.dsl.pitt.edu | it is shameful to surrender it too soon." \n----------------------------------------------------------------------------\n',
'From: ron.roth@rose.com (ron roth)\nSubject: Scientific Yawn\nX-Gated-By: Usenet <==> RoseMail Gateway (v1.70)\nOrganization: Rose Media Inc, Toronto, Ontario.\nLines: 94\n\n Gordon Rubenfeld responds to Ron Roth:\nGR> ron.roth@rose.com (ron roth) wrote:\nGR>\nGR> RR> Well, Gordon, I look at the RESULTS, not at anyone\'s *scientific*\nGR> RR> stamp of approval.\nGR> \nGR> If you and your patients (followers?) are convinced (as you\'ve written)\nGR> by your methods of uncontrolled, undocumented, unreported, unsubstantiated,\nGR> subjective endpoint research - great. But, why should the rest of us care?\n\n Gordon, even if you are trying to beat this issue to death, you\'ll \n never get more than a stalemate out of this one!\n I have never tried to force my type of medicine on any of you. Why \n should I? My patients are happy. I\'m happy. You and your peers seem \n to be the only miserable ones around bemoaning the steady loss of \n patients to the alternative camp.\n Just look at Europe. There has been a steady exodus from \'synthetic\' \n medicine for over a decade now, and it\'ll be just a matter of time\n before more people on this continent will abandon their drug and white \n coat worship as well and visit different doctors for different needs.\n\nGR> You see Ron, the point isn\'t whether YOU and your patients are\nGR> convinced that whatever it is you do works; it\'s whether what you do is\nGR> MORE effective in similar cases (of whatever it is you think you are\nGR> treating) than cupping, bloodletting, and placebo.\n\n This is very interesting. I have come exactly to the same conclusions\n but in regards to *conventional* medicine.\n\n You see, I don\'t just treat little old ladies that wouldn\'t know any\n different of what is being done, but a bulk of my patients consist of\n teachers, lawyers, judges, nurses, accountants, university graduates,\n and various health practitioners.\n If these people have gotten results with my method after having been\n unsuccessful with yours or their own, I certainly wouldn\'t lose any \n sleep over whether you or your peers approve of my treatments --- \n let\'s face it, with all the blunders committed by "scientific" MDs \n over the years, I know a lot of people who hold your *scientific* \n method in much lower esteem than they hold mine!\n\nGR> As far as we know ayurveda = crystals = homeopathy = Ron Roth\nGR> which may all equal placebo administered with appropriate\nGR> trappings...\n \n Sorry, but I\'m not familiar OR interested with what appears to be \n \'NEW AGE\' medicine (ayurveda, crystals), with the exception of homeo-\n pathy, of which I took a course. But Gordon, you already knew that -\n you just wanted to make my system look a bit more far out, right?\n \n I use homeopathy very little, since my cellular test (EMR) is hard to\n beat for accuracy and minerals are more predictable, while homeopathy\n does have a problem with reliability, especially in acute conditions.\n An exception perhaps are homeopathic nosodes which act fairly quickly\n and are more dependable in certain viral or bacterial situations. \n\nGR> My colleagues and I spend hours debating study design\nGR> and results, even of therapies currently accepted as "standard".\nGR> As good (well, adequate) scientists, we are prepared, *if \nGR> presented with appropriate data*, to abandon our most deeply held \nGR> beliefs in favor of new ideas.\n\n I have met the challenges of hundreds of sceptics by verifying the\n accuracy of measuring their mineral status to their total satisfac-\n tion --- in other words EVERYONE INVOLVED is happy!\n If you were to cook a meal, would you worry over whether EVERYONE \n in this world would find it to their liking, or only those that end \n up eating it?\n Since I have financed every research project that I have undertaken \n entirely myself, I don\'t need to follow any of your rules or guide-\n lines to satisfy any aspects of a grant application, which YOU may \n have to; neither am I concerned of whether or not my study designs \n meet your or anyone else\'s criteria or acceptance. \n\nGR> Sorry Ron, if conviction were the ruler of truth, a flat Earth would\nGR> still be the center of the Universe and epilepsy a curse of the gods.\n \n I think there would be more justification for an uneducated person\n growing up in an uncivilized environment to believe in a flat earth,\n than for a civilized, well educated and scientifically trained mind\n to follow the doctrine of evolution.\n Genetic engineering of course is now the final frontier to show God\n how it is (properly) done. Now we\'ve become capable of creating our\n own paradise and give disease (and God) the boot, right?\n\n But just before we get rid of Him for good, perhaps He could leave us\n some pointers on how to solve a couple of tiny problems, such as war, \n poverty, racism, crime, riots, substance abuse... And one last thing, \n could He also give us a hint on how to control natural disasters, the\n weather, and last, but not least --- peace?\n\n --Ron--\n---\n RoseReader 2.00 P003228: The Lab called: Your brain is ready.\n RoseMail 2.10 : Usenet: Rose Media - Hamilton (416) 575-5363\n',
'From: bbesler@ouchem.chem.oakland.edu (Brent H. Besler)\nSubject: Is an oral form of Imitrex(sumatriptan) available in CA\nArticle-I.D.: vela.1psee5$c3t\nDistribution: na\nOrganization: Oakland University, Rochester MI.\nLines: 9\nNNTP-Posting-Host: ouchem.chem.oakland.edu\n\nSumatriptan(Imitrex) just became available in the US in a subcutaneous\ninjectable form. Is there an oral form available in CA? A friend(yes\nreally not me!) has severe migranes about 2-3 times per week. We\nlive right by the CA border and he has gotten drugs for GERD prescribed\nby a US physician and filled in a CA pharmacy, but not yet FDA approved\nin the US. What would be the cost of the oral form in CA$ also if\nanyone would have that info? \n\nThanks\n',
"From: I3150101@dbstu1.rz.tu-bs.de (Benedikt Rosenau)\nSubject: Re: YOU WILL ALL GO TO HELL!!!\nOrganization: Technical University Braunschweig, Germany\nLines: 18\n\nIn article <93108.020701TAN102@psuvm.psu.edu>\nAndrew Newell <TAN102@psuvm.psu.edu> writes:\n \n>>In article <93106.155002JSN104@psuvm.psu.edu> <JSN104@psuvm.psu.edu> writes:\n>>>YOU BLASHEPHEMERS!!! YOU WILL ALL GO TO HELL FOR NOT BELIEVING IN GOD!!!! BE\n>>>PREPARED FOR YOUR ETERNAL DAMNATION!!!\n>>\n>>readers of the group. How convenient that he doesn't have a real name...\n>>Let's start up the letters to the sysadmin, shall we?\n>\n>His real name is Jeremy Scott Noonan.\n>vmoper@psuvm.psu.edu should have at least some authority,\n>or at least know who to email.\n>\n \nPOSTMAST@PSUVM.BITNET respectively P_RFOWLES or P_WVERITY (the sys admins)\nat the same node are probably a better idea than the operator.\n Benedikt\n",
'From: keith@cco.caltech.edu (Keith Allan Schneider)\nSubject: Re: <Political Atheists?\nOrganization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena\nLines: 9\nNNTP-Posting-Host: lloyd.caltech.edu\n\nkmr4@po.CWRU.edu (Keith M. Ryan) writes:\n\n>>But chimps are almost human...\n>Does this mean that Chimps have a moral will?\n\nWell, chimps must have some system. They live in social groups\nas we do, so they must have some "laws" dictating undesired behavior.\n\nkeith\n',
'From: banschbach@vms.ocom.okstate.edu\nSubject: Candida(yeast) Bloom, Fact or Fiction\nLines: 187\nNntp-Posting-Host: vms.ocom.okstate.edu\nOrganization: OSU College of Osteopathic Medicine\n\nI can not believe the way this thread on candida(yeast) has progressed.\nSteve Dyer and I have been exchanging words over the same topic in Sci. \nMed. Nutrition when he displayed his typical reserve and attacked a women \nposter for being treated by a liscenced physician for a disease that did \nnot exist. Calling this physician a quack was reprehensible Steve and I \nsee that you and some of the others are doing it here as well. \n\nLet me tell you who the quacks really are, these are the physicans who have \nno idea how the human body interacts with it\'s environment and how that \nbalance can be altered by diet and antibiotics. These are the physicians \nwho dismiss their patients with difficult symptomatology and make them go \nfrom doctor to doctor to find relief(like Elaine in Sci. Med. Nutrition) and \nthen when they find one that solves their problem, the rest start yelling \nquack. Could it just be professional jealousy? I couldn\'t help Elaine or Jon\nbut somebody else did. Could they know more than Me? No way, they must be a \nquack. \n\nI\'ve been teaching a human nutrition course for Medical students for over ten \nyears now and guess who the most receptive students are? Those that were \nraised on farms and saw first-hand the effect of diet on the health of their \nfarm animals and those students who had made a dramatic diet change prior to \nentering medical school(switched to the vegan diet). Typically, this is \nabout 1/3 of my class of 90 students. Those not interested in nutrition \neither tune me out or just stop coming to class. That\'s okay because I \nknow that some of what I\'m teaching is going to stick and there will be at \nleast a few "enlightened" physicians practicing in the U.S. It\'s really \ntoo bad that most U.S. medical schools don\'t cover nutrition because if \nthey did, candida would not be viewed as a non-disease by so many in the \nmedical profession.\n\nIn animal husbandry, an animal is reinnoculated with "good" bacteria after \nantibiotics are stopped. Medicine has decided that since humans do not \nhave a ruminant stomach, no such reinnoculation with "good" bacteria is \nneeded after coming off a braod spectrum antibiotic. Humans have all \nkinds of different organisms living in the GI system(mouth, stomach, small \nand large intestine), sinuses, vagina and on the skin. These are \nnonpathogenic because they do not cause disease in people unless the immune \nsystem is compromised. They are also called nonpathogens because unlike \nthe pathogenic organisms that cause human disease, they do not produce \ntoxins as they live out their merry existence in and on our body. But any of \nthese organisms will be considered pathogenic if it manages to take up \nresidence within the body. A poor mucus membrane barrier can let this \nhappen and vitamin A is mainly responsible for setting up this barrier.\nSteve got real upset with Elaine\'s doctor because he was using anti-fungals \nand vitamin A for her GI problems. If Steve really understoood what \nvitamin A does in the body, he would not(or at least should not) be calling \nElaine\'s doctor a quack.\n\nHere is a brief primer on yeast. Yeast infections, as they are commonly \ncalled, are not truely caused by yeasts. The most common organism responsible\nfor this type of infection is Candida albicans or Monilia which is actually a \nyeast-like fungus. An infection caused by this organism is called candidiasis.\nCandidiasis is a very rare occurance because, like an E. Coli infection, it \nrequires that the host immune system be severly depressed. \n\nCandida is frequently found on the skin and all of the mucous membranes of \nnormal healthy people and it rarely becomes a problem unless some predisposing\nfactor is present such as a high blood glucose level(diabetes) or an oral \ncourse of antibiotics has been used. In diabetics, their secretions contain \nmuch higher amounts of glucose. Candida, unlike bacteria, is very limited in \nit\'s food(fuel) selection. Without glucose, it can not grow, it just barely \nsurvives. If it gets access to a lot of glucose, it blooms and over rides \nthe other organisms living with it in the sinuses, GI tract or vagina. In \ndiabetics, skin lesions can also foster a good bloom site for these little \nbuggers. The bloom is usually just a minor irritant in most people but \nsome people do really develop a bad inflammatory process at the mucus \nmembrane or skin bloom site. Whether this is an allergic like reaction to \nthe candida or not isn\'t certain. When the bloom is in the vagina or on \nthe skin, it can be easliy seen and some doctors do then try to "treat" it.\nIf it\'s internal, only symptoms can be used and these symptoms are pretty \nnondiscript. \n\n\nCandida is kept in check in most people by the normal bacterial flora in \nthe sinuses, the GI tract(mouth, stomach and intestines) and in the \nvaginal tract which compete with it for food. The human immune system \nususally does not bother itself with these(nonpathogenic organisms) unless \nthey broach the mucus membrane "barrier". If they do, an inflammatory \nresponse will be set up. Most Americans are not getting enough vitamin A \nfrom their diets. About 30% of all American\'s die with less Vitamin A than \nthey were born with(U.S. autopsy studies). While this low level of vitamin \nA does not cause pathology(blindness) it does impair the mucus membrane \nbarrier system. This would then be a predisposing factor for a strong \ninflammatory response after a candida bloom. \n\nWhile diabetics can suffer from a candida "bloom" the most common cause of \nthis type of bloom is the use of broad spectrum antibiotics which \nknock down many different kinds of bacteria in the body and remove the main \ncompetition for candida as far as food is concerned. While drugs are \navailable to handle candida, many patients find that their doctor will not \nuse them unless there is evidence of a systemic infection. The toxicity of \nthe anti-fungal drugs does warrant some caution. But if the GI or sinus \ninflammation is suspected to be candida(and recent use of a broad spectrum \nantibiotic is the smoking gun), then anti-fungal use should be approrpriate \njust as the anti-fungal creams are an appropriate treatment for recurring \nvaginal yeast infections, in spite of what Mr. Steve Dyer says.\n\nBut even in patients being given the anti-fungals, the irritation caused by \nthe excessive candida bloom in the sinus, GI tract or the vagina tends to \nreturn after drug treatment is discontinued unless the underlying cause of \nthe problem is addressed(lack of a "good" bacterial flora in the body and/or \npoor mucus membrane barrier). Lactobacillus acidophilus is the most effective \ntherapy for candida overgrowth. From it\'s name, it is an acid loving \norganism and it sets up an acidic condition were it grows. Candida can not \ngrow very well in an acidic environment. In the vagina, L. acidophilius is \nthe predominate bacteria(unless you are hit with broad spectrum \nantibiotics). \n\nIn the GI system, the ano-rectal region seems to be a particularly good \nreservoir for candida and the use of pantyhose by many women creates a very \nfavorable environment around the rectum for transfer(through moisture and \nhumidity) of candida to the vaginal tract. One of the most effctive ways to \nminimmize this transfer is to wear undyed cotton underwear. \n\nIf the bloom occurs in the anal area, the burning, swelling, pain and even \nblood discharge make many patients think that they have hemorroids. If the \nbloom manages to move further up the GI tract, very diffuse symptomatology \noccurs(abdominal discomfort and blood in the stool). This positive stool \nfor occult blood is what sent Elaine to her family doctor in the first \nplace. After extensive testing, he told her that there was nothing wrong \nbut her gut still hurt. On to another doctor, and so on. Richard Kaplan \nhas told me throiugh e-mail that he considers occult blood tests in stool \nspecimens to be a waste of time and money because of the very large number of \nfalse positives(candida blooms guys?). If my gut hurt me on a constant \nbasis, I would want it fixed. Yes it\'s nice to know that I don\'t have \ncolon cancer but what then is causing my distress? When I finally find a \ndoctor who treats me and gets me 90% better, Steve Dyer calls him a quack.\n\nCandida prefers a slightly alkaline environment while bacteria \ntend to prefer a slightly acidic environment. The vagina becomes alkaline \nduring a woman\'s period and this is often when candida blooms in the vagina. \nVinegar and water douches are the best way of dealing with vaginal \nproblems. Many women have also gotten relief from the introduction of \nLactobacillus directly into the vaginal tract(I would want to be sure of \nthe purity of the product before trying this). My wife had this vagina \nproblem after going on birth control pills and searched for over a year \nuntil she found a gynocologist who solved the problem rather than just writting \nscripts for anti-fungal creams. This was a woman gynocologist who had had \nthe same problem(recurring vaginal yeast infections). This M.D. did some \ndigging and came up with an acetic acid and L. Acidophilis douche which she \nused in your office to keep it sterile. After three treatments, sex \nreturned to our marraige. I have often wondered what an M.D. with chronic \nGI distress or sinus problems would do about the problem that he tells his \npatients is a non-existent syndrome.\n\nThe nonpathogenic bacteria L. acidophilus is an acid producing bacteria \nwhich is the most common bacteria found in the vaginal tract of healthy women. \nIf taken orally, it can also become a major bacteria in the gut. Through \naresol sprays, it has also been used to innoculate the sinus membranes.\nBut before this innoculation occurs, the mucus membrane barrier system \nneeds to be strengthened. This is accomplished by vitamin A, vitamin C and \nsome of the B-complex vitamins. Diet surveys repeatedly show that Americans \nare not getting enough B6 and folate. These are probably the segement of \nthe population that will have the greatest problem with this non-existent \ndisorder(candida blooms after antibiotic therapy).\n \nSome of the above material was obtained from "Natural Healing" by Mark \nBricklin, Published by Rodale press, as well as notes from my human \nnutrition course. I will be posting a discussion of vitamin A sometime in \nthe future, along with reference citings to point out the extremely \nimportant role that vitamin A plays in the mucus membrane defense system in \nthe body and why vitamin A should be effective in dealing with candida \nblooms. Another effective dietary treatment is to restrict carbohydrate \nintake during the treatment phase, this is especially important if the GI \nsystem is involved. If candida can not get glucose, it\'s not going to out \ngrow the bacteria and you then give bacteria, which can use amino acids and \nfatty acids for energy, a chance to take over and keep the candida in check \nonce carbohydrate is returned to the gut.\n\nIf Steve and some of the other nay-sayers want to jump all over this post, \nfine. I jumped all over Steve in Sci. Med. Nutrition because he verbably \naccosted a poster who was seeking advice about her doctor\'s use of vitamin \nA and anti-fungals for a candida bloom in her gut. People seeking advice \nfrom newsnet should not be treated this way. Those of us giving of our \ntime and knowledge can slug it out to our heart\'s content. If you saved \nyour venom for me Steve and left the helpless posters who are timidly \nseeking help alone, I wouldn\'t have a problem with your behavior. \n \nMartin Banschbach, Ph.D.\nProfessor of Biochemistry and Chairman\nDepartment of Biochemistry and Microbiology\nOSU College of Osteopathic Medicine\n1111 West 17th St.\nTulsa, Ok. 74107\n\n"Without discourse, there is no remembering, without remembering, there is \nno learning, without learning, there is only ignorance".\n',
'From: tgl+@cs.cmu.edu (Tom Lane)\nSubject: JPEG image compression: Frequently Asked Questions\nSummary: Useful info about JPEG (JPG) image files and programs\nKeywords: JPEG, image compression, FAQ\nSupersedes: <jpeg-faq_733898461@g.gp.cs.cmu.edu>\nNntp-Posting-Host: g.gp.cs.cmu.edu\nReply-To: jpeg-info@uunet.uu.net\nOrganization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon\nExpires: Sun, 16 May 1993 21:39:30 GMT\nLines: 1027\n\nArchive-name: jpeg-faq\nLast-modified: 18 April 1993\n\nThis FAQ article discusses JPEG image compression. Suggestions for\nadditions and clarifications are welcome.\n\nNew since version of 3 April 1993:\n * New versions of Image Archiver and PMJPEG for OS/2.\n\n\nThis article includes the following sections:\n\n[1] What is JPEG?\n[2] Why use JPEG?\n[3] When should I use JPEG, and when should I stick with GIF?\n[4] How well does JPEG compress images?\n[5] What are good "quality" settings for JPEG?\n[6] Where can I get JPEG software?\n [6A] "canned" software, viewers, etc.\n [6B] source code\n[7] What\'s all this hoopla about color quantization?\n[8] How does JPEG work?\n[9] What about lossless JPEG?\n[10] Why all the argument about file formats?\n[11] How do I recognize which file format I have, and what do I do about it?\n[12] What about arithmetic coding?\n[13] Does loss accumulate with repeated compression/decompression?\n[14] What are some rules of thumb for converting GIF images to JPEG?\n\nSections 1-6 are basic info that every JPEG user needs to know;\nsections 7-14 are advanced info for the curious.\n\nThis article is posted every 2 weeks. You can always find the latest version\nin the news.answers archive at rtfm.mit.edu (18.172.1.27). By FTP, fetch\n/pub/usenet/news.answers/jpeg-faq; or if you don\'t have FTP, send e-mail to\nmail-server@rtfm.mit.edu with body "send usenet/news.answers/jpeg-faq".\nMany other FAQ articles are also stored in this archive. For more\ninstructions on use of the archive, send e-mail to the same address with the\nwords "help" and "index" (no quotes) on separate lines. If you don\'t get a\nreply, the server may be misreading your return address; add a line such as\n"path myname@mysite" to specify your correct e-mail address to reply to.\n\n\n----------\n\n\n[1] What is JPEG?\n\nJPEG (pronounced "jay-peg") is a standardized image compression mechanism.\nJPEG stands for Joint Photographic Experts Group, the original name of the\ncommittee that wrote the standard. JPEG is designed for compressing either\nfull-color or gray-scale digital images of "natural", real-world scenes.\nIt does not work so well on non-realistic images, such as cartoons or line\ndrawings.\n\nJPEG does not handle black-and-white (1-bit-per-pixel) images, nor does it\nhandle motion picture compression. Standards for compressing those types\nof images are being worked on by other committees, named JBIG and MPEG\nrespectively.\n\nJPEG is "lossy", meaning that the image you get out of decompression isn\'t\nquite identical to what you originally put in. The algorithm achieves much\nof its compression by exploiting known limitations of the human eye, notably\nthe fact that small color details aren\'t perceived as well as small details\nof light-and-dark. Thus, JPEG is intended for compressing images that will\nbe looked at by humans. If you plan to machine-analyze your images, the\nsmall errors introduced by JPEG may be a problem for you, even if they are\ninvisible to the eye.\n\nA useful property of JPEG is that the degree of lossiness can be varied by\nadjusting compression parameters. This means that the image maker can trade\noff file size against output image quality. You can make *extremely* small\nfiles if you don\'t mind poor quality; this is useful for indexing image\narchives, making thumbnail views or icons, etc. etc. Conversely, if you\naren\'t happy with the output quality at the default compression setting, you\ncan jack up the quality until you are satisfied, and accept lesser compression.\n\n\n[2] Why use JPEG?\n\nThere are two good reasons: to make your image files smaller, and to store\n24-bit-per-pixel color data instead of 8-bit-per-pixel data.\n\nMaking image files smaller is a big win for transmitting files across\nnetworks and for archiving libraries of images. Being able to compress a\n2 Mbyte full-color file down to 100 Kbytes or so makes a big difference in\ndisk space and transmission time! (If you are comparing GIF and JPEG, the\nsize ratio is more like four to one. More details below.)\n\nIf your viewing software doesn\'t support JPEG directly, you\'ll have to\nconvert JPEG to some other format for viewing or manipulating images. Even\nwith a JPEG-capable viewer, it takes longer to decode and view a JPEG image\nthan to view an image of a simpler format (GIF, for instance). Thus, using\nJPEG is essentially a time/space tradeoff: you give up some time in order to\nstore or transmit an image more cheaply.\n\nIt\'s worth noting that when network or phone transmission is involved, the\ntime savings from transferring a shorter file can be much greater than the\nextra time to decompress the file. I\'ll let you do the arithmetic yourself.\n\nThe other reason why JPEG will gradually replace GIF as a standard Usenet\nposting format is that JPEG can store full color information: 24 bits/pixel\n(16 million colors) instead of 8 or less (256 or fewer colors). If you have\nonly 8-bit display hardware then this may not seem like much of an advantage\nto you. Within a couple of years, though, 8-bit GIF will look as obsolete as\nblack-and-white MacPaint format does today. Furthermore, for reasons detailed\nin section 7, JPEG is far more useful than GIF for exchanging images among\npeople with widely varying color display hardware. Hence JPEG is considerably\nmore appropriate than GIF for use as a Usenet posting standard.\n\n\n[3] When should I use JPEG, and when should I stick with GIF?\n\nJPEG is *not* going to displace GIF entirely; for some types of images,\nGIF is superior in image quality, file size, or both. One of the first\nthings to learn about JPEG is which kinds of images to apply it to.\n\nAs a rule of thumb, JPEG is superior to GIF for storing full-color or\ngray-scale images of "realistic" scenes; that means scanned photographs and\nsimilar material. JPEG is superior even if you don\'t have 24-bit display\nhardware, and it is a LOT superior if you do. (See section 7 for details.)\n\nGIF does significantly better on images with only a few distinct colors,\nsuch as cartoons and line drawings. In particular, large areas of pixels\nthat are all *exactly* the same color are compressed very efficiently indeed\nby GIF. JPEG can\'t squeeze these files as much as GIF does without\nintroducing visible defects. This sort of image is best kept in GIF form.\n(In particular, single-color borders are quite cheap in GIF files, but they\nshould be avoided in JPEG files.)\n\nJPEG also has a hard time with very sharp edges: a row of pure-black pixels\nadjacent to a row of pure-white pixels, for example. Sharp edges tend to\ncome out blurred unless you use a very high quality setting. Again, this\nsort of thing is not found in scanned photographs, but it shows up fairly\noften in GIF files: borders, overlaid text, etc. The blurriness is\nparticularly objectionable with text that\'s only a few pixels high.\nIf you have a GIF with a lot of small-size overlaid text, don\'t JPEG it.\n\nComputer-drawn images (ray-traced scenes, for instance) usually fall between\nscanned images and cartoons in terms of complexity. The more complex and\nsubtly rendered the image, the more likely that JPEG will do well on it.\nThe same goes for semi-realistic artwork (fantasy drawings and such).\n\nPlain black-and-white (two level) images should never be converted to JPEG.\nYou need at least about 16 gray levels before JPEG is useful for gray-scale\nimages. It should also be noted that GIF is lossless for gray-scale images\nof up to 256 levels, while JPEG is not.\n\nIf you have an existing library of GIF images, you may wonder whether you\nshould convert them to JPEG. You will lose a little image quality if you do.\n(Section 7, which argues that JPEG image quality is superior to GIF, only\napplies if both formats start from a full-color original. If you start from\na GIF, you\'ve already irretrievably lost a great deal of information; JPEG\ncan only make things worse.) However, the disk space savings may justify\nconverting anyway. This is a decision you\'ll have to make for yourself.\nIf you do convert a GIF library to JPEG, see section 14 for hints. Be\nprepared to leave some images in GIF format, since some GIFs will not\nconvert well.\n\n\n[4] How well does JPEG compress images?\n\nPretty darn well. Here are some sample file sizes for an image I have\nhandy, a 727x525 full-color image of a ship in a harbor. The first three\nfiles are for comparison purposes; the rest were created with the free JPEG\nsoftware described in section 6B.\n\nFile\t Size in bytes\t\tComments\n\nship.ppm\t1145040 Original file in PPM format (no compression; 24 bits\n\t\t\t or 3 bytes per pixel, plus a few bytes overhead)\nship.ppm.Z\t 963829 PPM file passed through Unix compress\n\t\t\t compress doesn\'t accomplish a lot, you\'ll note.\n\t\t\t Other text-oriented compressors give similar results.\nship.gif\t 240438 Converted to GIF with ppmquant -fs 256 | ppmtogif\n\t\t\t Most of the savings is the result of losing color\n\t\t\t info: GIF saves 8 bits/pixel, not 24. (See sec. 7.)\n\nship.jpg95\t 155622 cjpeg -Q 95 (highest useful quality setting)\n\t\t\t This is indistinguishable from the 24-bit original,\n\t\t\t at least to my nonprofessional eyeballs.\nship.jpg75\t 58009 cjpeg -Q 75 (default setting)\n\t\t\t You have to look mighty darn close to distinguish this\n\t\t\t from the original, even with both on-screen at once.\nship.jpg50\t 38406 cjpeg -Q 50\n\t\t\t This has slight defects; if you know what to look\n\t\t\t for, you could tell it\'s been JPEGed without seeing\n\t\t\t the original. Still as good image quality as many\n\t\t\t recent postings in Usenet pictures groups.\nship.jpg25\t 25192 cjpeg -Q 25\n\t\t\t JPEG\'s characteristic "blockiness" becomes apparent\n\t\t\t at this setting (djpeg -blocksmooth helps some).\n\t\t\t Still, I\'ve seen plenty of Usenet postings that were\n\t\t\t of poorer image quality than this.\nship.jpg5o\t 6587 cjpeg -Q 5 -optimize (-optimize cuts table overhead)\n\t\t\t Blocky, but perfectly satisfactory for preview or\n\t\t\t indexing purposes. Note that this file is TINY:\n\t\t\t the compression ratio from the original is 173:1 !\n\nIn this case JPEG can make a file that\'s a factor of four or five smaller\nthan a GIF of comparable quality (the -Q 75 file is every bit as good as the\nGIF, better if you have a full-color display). This seems to be a typical\nratio for real-world scenes.\n\n\n[5] What are good "quality" settings for JPEG?\n\nMost JPEG compressors let you pick a file size vs. image quality tradeoff by\nselecting a quality setting. There seems to be widespread confusion about\nthe meaning of these settings. "Quality 95" does NOT mean "keep 95% of the\ninformation", as some have claimed. The quality scale is purely arbitrary;\nit\'s not a percentage of anything.\n\nThe name of the game in using JPEG is to pick the lowest quality setting\n(smallest file size) that decompresses into an image indistinguishable from\nthe original. This setting will vary from one image to another and from one\nobserver to another, but here are some rules of thumb.\n\nThe default quality setting (-Q 75) is very often the best choice. This\nsetting is about the lowest you can go without expecting to see defects in a\ntypical image. Try -Q 75 first; if you see defects, then go up. Except for\nexperimental purposes, never go above -Q 95; saying -Q 100 will produce a\nfile two or three times as large as -Q 95, but of hardly any better quality.\n\nIf the image was less than perfect quality to begin with, you might be able to\ngo down to -Q 50 without objectionable degradation. On the other hand, you\nmight need to go to a HIGHER quality setting to avoid further degradation.\nThe second case seems to apply much of the time when converting GIFs to JPEG.\nThe default -Q 75 is about right for compressing 24-bit images, but -Q 85 to\n95 is usually better for converting GIFs (see section 14 for more info).\n\nIf you want a very small file (say for preview or indexing purposes) and are\nprepared to tolerate large defects, a -Q setting in the range of 5 to 10 is\nabout right. -Q 2 or so may be amusing as "op art".\n\n(Note: the quality settings discussed in this article apply to the free JPEG\nsoftware described in section 6B, and to many programs based on it. Other\nJPEG implementations, such as Image Alchemy, may use a completely different\nquality scale. Some programs don\'t even provide a numeric scale, just\n"high"/"medium"/"low"-style choices.)\n\n\n[6] Where can I get JPEG software?\n\nMost of the programs described in this section are available by FTP.\nIf you don\'t know how to use FTP, see the FAQ article "How to find sources".\n(If you don\'t have direct access to FTP, read about ftpmail servers in the\nsame article.) That article appears regularly in news.answers, or you can\nget it by sending e-mail to mail-server@rtfm.mit.edu with\n"send usenet/news.answers/finding-sources" in the body. The "Anonymous FTP\nList FAQ" may also be helpful --- it\'s usenet/news.answers/ftp-list/faq in\nthe news.answers archive.\n\nNOTE: this list changes constantly. If you have a copy more than a couple\nmonths old, get the latest JPEG FAQ from the news.answers archive.\n\n\n[6A] If you are looking for "canned" software, viewers, etc:\n\nThe first part of this list is system-specific programs that only run on one\nkind of system. If you don\'t see what you want for your machine, check out\nthe portable JPEG software described at the end of the list. Note that this\nlist concentrates on free and shareware programs that you can obtain over\nInternet; but some commercial programs are listed too.\n\nX Windows:\n\nJohn Bradley\'s free XV (version 2.00 and up) is an excellent viewer for JPEG,\nGIF, and other image formats. It\'s available for FTP from export.lcs.mit.edu\nor ftp.cis.upenn.edu. The file is called \'xv-???.tar.Z\' (where ??? is the\nversion number, currently 2.21); it is located in the \'contrib\' directory on\nexport or the \'pub/xv\' directory at upenn. XV reduces all images to 8 bits\ninternally, which means it\'s not a real good choice if you have a 24-bit\ndisplay (you\'ll still get only 8-bit color). Also, you shouldn\'t use XV to\nconvert full-color images to JPEG, because they\'ll get color-quantized first.\nBut XV is a fine tool for converting GIF and other 8-bit images to JPEG.\nCAUTION: there is a glitch in versions 2.21 and earlier: be sure to check\nthe "save at normal size" checkbox when saving a JPEG file, or the file will\nbe blurry.\n\nAnother good choice for X Windows is John Cristy\'s free ImageMagick package,\nalso available from export.lcs.mit.edu, file contrib/ImageMagick.tar.Z.\nThis package handles many image processing and conversion tasks. The\nImageMagick viewer handles 24-bit displays correctly; for colormapped\ndisplays, it does better (though slower) color quantization than XV or the\nbasic free JPEG software.\n\nBoth of the above are large, complex packages. If you just want a simple\nimage viewer, try xloadimage or xli. xloadimage supports JPEG in its latest\nrelease, 3.03. xloadimage is free and available from export.lcs.mit.edu,\nfile contrib/xloadimage.3.03.tar.Z. xli is a variant version of xloadimage,\nsaid by its fans to be somewhat faster and more robust than the original.\n(The current xli is indeed faster and more robust than the current\nxloadimage, at least with respect to JPEG files, because it has the IJG v4\ndecoder while xloadimage 3.03 is using a hacked-over v1. The next\nxloadimage release will fix this.) xli is also free and available from\nexport.lcs.mit.edu, file contrib/xli.1.14.tar.Z. Both programs are said\nto do the right thing with 24-bit displays.\n\n\nMS-DOS:\n\nThis covers plain DOS; for Windows or OS/2 programs, see the next headings.\n\nOne good choice is Eric Praetzel\'s free DVPEG, which views JPEG and GIF files.\nThe current version, 2.4a, is available by FTP from sunee.uwaterloo.ca\n(129.97.50.50), file pub/jpeg/viewers/dvpeg24a.zip. This is a good basic\nviewer that works on either 286 or 386/486 machines. The user interface is\nnot flashy, but it\'s functional.\n\nAnother freeware JPEG/GIF/TGA viewer is Mohammad Rezaei\'s Hiview. The\ncurrent version, 1.2, is available from Simtel20 and mirror sites (see NOTE\nbelow), file msdos/graphics/hv12.zip. Hiview requires a 386 or better CPU\nand a VCPI-compatible memory manager (QEMM386 and 386MAX work; Windows and\nOS/2 do not). Hiview is currently the fastest viewer for images that are no\nbigger than your screen. For larger images, it scales the image down to fit\non the screen (rather than using panning/scrolling as most viewers do).\nYou may or may not prefer this approach, but there\'s no denying that it\nslows down loading of large images considerably. Note: installation is a\nbit tricky; read the directions carefully!\n\nA shareware alternative is ColorView for DOS ($30). This is easier to\ninstall than either of the two freeware alternatives. Its user interface is\nalso much spiffier-looking, although personally I find it harder to use ---\nmore keystrokes, inconsistent behavior. It is faster than DVPEG but a\nlittle slower than Hiview, at least on my hardware. (For images larger than\nscreen size, DVPEG and ColorView seem to be about the same speed, and both\nare faster than Hiview.) The current version is 2.1, available from\nSimtel20 and mirror sites (see NOTE below), file msdos/graphics/dcview21.zip.\nRequires a VESA graphics driver; if you don\'t have one, look in vesadrv2.zip\nor vesa-tsr.zip from the same directory. (Many recent PCs have a built-in\nVESA driver, so don\'t try to load a VESA driver unless ColorView complains\nthat the driver is missing.)\n\nA second shareware alternative is Fullview, which has been kicking around\nthe net for a while, but I don\'t know any stable archive location for it.\nThe current (rather old) version is inferior to the above viewers anyway.\nThe author tells me that a new version of Fullview will be out shortly\nand it will be submitted to the Simtel20 archives at that time.\n\nThe well-known GIF viewer CompuShow (CSHOW) supports JPEG in its latest\nrevision, 8.60a. However, CSHOW\'s JPEG implementation isn\'t very good:\nit\'s slow (about half the speed of the above viewers) and image quality is\npoor except on hi-color displays. Too bad ... it\'d have been nice to see a\ngood JPEG capability in CSHOW. Shareware, $25. Available from Simtel20 and\nmirror sites (see NOTE below), file msdos/gif/cshw860a.zip.\n\nDue to the remarkable variety of PC graphics hardware, any one of these\nviewers might not work on your particular machine. If you can\'t get *any*\nof them to work, you\'ll need to use one of the following conversion programs\nto convert JPEG to GIF, then view with your favorite GIF viewer. (If you\nhave hi-color hardware, don\'t use GIF as the intermediate format; try to\nfind a TARGA-capable viewer instead. VPIC5.0 is reputed to do the right\nthing with hi-color displays.)\n\nThe Independent JPEG Group\'s free JPEG converters are FTPable from Simtel20\nand mirror sites (see NOTE below), file msdos/graphics/jpeg4.zip (or\njpeg4386.zip if you have a 386 and extended memory). These files are DOS\ncompilations of the free source code described in section 6B; they will\nconvert JPEG to and from GIF, Targa, and PPM formats.\n\nHandmade Software offers free JPEG<=>GIF conversion tools, GIF2JPG/JPG2GIF.\nThese are slow and are limited to conversion to and from GIF format; in\nparticular, you can\'t get 24-bit color output from a JPEG. The major\nadvantage of these tools is that they will read and write HSI\'s proprietary\nJPEG format as well as the Usenet-standard JFIF format. Since HSI-format\nfiles are rather widespread on BBSes, this is a useful capability. Version\n2.0 of these tools is free (prior versions were shareware). Get it from\nSimtel20 and mirror sites (see NOTE below), file msdos/graphics/gif2jpg2.zip.\nNOTE: do not use HSI format for files to be posted on Internet, since it is\nnot readable on non-PC platforms.\n\nHandmade Software also has a shareware image conversion and manipulation\npackage, Image Alchemy. This will translate JPEG files (both JFIF and HSI\nformats) to and from many other image formats. It can also display images.\nA demo version of Image Alchemy version 1.6.1 is available from Simtel20 and\nmirror sites (see NOTE below), file msdos/graphics/alch161.zip.\n\nNOTE ABOUT SIMTEL20: The Internet\'s key archive site for PC-related programs\nis Simtel20, full name wsmr-simtel20.army.mil (192.88.110.20). Simtel20\nruns a non-Unix system with weird directory names; where this document\nrefers to directory (eg) "msdos/graphics" at Simtel20, that really means\n"pd1:<msdos.graphics>". If you are not physically on MILnet, you should\nexpect rather slow FTP transfer rates from Simtel20. There are several\nInternet sites that maintain copies (mirrors) of the Simtel20 archives;\nmost FTP users should go to one of the mirror sites instead. A popular USA\nmirror site is oak.oakland.edu (141.210.10.117), which keeps Simtel20 files\nin (eg) "/pub/msdos/graphics". If you have no FTP capability, you can\nretrieve files from Simtel20 by e-mail; see informational postings in\ncomp.archives.msdos.announce to find out how. If you are outside the USA,\nconsult the same newsgroup to learn where your nearest Simtel20 mirror is.\n\nMicrosoft Windows:\n\nThere are several Windows programs capable of displaying JPEG images.\n(Windows viewers are generally slower than DOS viewers on the same hardware,\ndue to Windows\' system overhead. Note that you can run the DOS conversion\nprograms described above inside a Windows DOS window.)\n\nThe newest entry is WinECJ, which is free and EXTREMELY fast. Version 1.0\nis available from ftp.rahul.net, file /pub/bryanw/pc/jpeg/wecj.zip.\nRequires Windows 3.1 and 256-or-more-colors mode. This is a no-frills\nviewer with the bad habit of hogging the machine completely while it\ndecodes; and the image quality is noticeably worse than other viewers.\nBut it\'s so fast you\'ll use it anyway, at least for previewing...\n\nJView is freeware, fairly fast, has good on-line help, and can write out the\ndecompressed image in Windows BMP format; but it can\'t create new JPEG\nfiles, and it doesn\'t view GIFs. JView also lacks some other useful\nfeatures of the shareware viewers (such as brightness adjustment), but it\'s\nan excellent basic viewer. The current version, 0.9, is available from\nftp.cica.indiana.edu (129.79.20.84), file pub/pc/win3/desktop/jview090.zip.\n(Mirrors of this archive can be found at some other Internet sites,\nincluding wuarchive.wustl.edu.)\n\nWinJPEG (shareware, $20) displays JPEG,GIF,Targa,TIFF, and BMP image files;\nit can write all of these formats too, so it can be used as a converter.\nIt has some other nifty features including color-balance adjustment and\nslideshow. The current version is 2.1, available from Simtel20 and mirror\nsites (see NOTE above), file msdos/windows3/winjp210.zip. (This is a slow\n286-compatible version; if you register, you\'ll get the 386-only version,\nwhich is roughly 25% faster.)\n\nColorView is another shareware entry ($30). This was an early and promising\ncontender, but it has not been updated in some time, and at this point it\nhas no real advantages over WinJPEG. If you want to try it anyway, the\ncurrent version is 0.97, available from ftp.cica.indiana.edu, file\npub/pc/win3/desktop/cview097.zip. (I understand that a new version will\nbe appearing once the authors are finished with ColorView for DOS.)\n\nDVPEG (see DOS heading) also works under Windows, but only in full-screen\nmode, not in a window.\n\nOS/2:\n\nThe following files are available from hobbes.nmsu.edu (128.123.35.151).\nNote: check /pub/uploads for more recent versions --- the hobbes moderator\nis not very fast about moving uploads into their permanent directories.\n/pub/os2/2.x/graphics/jpegv4.zip\n 32-bit version of free IJG conversion programs, version 4.\n/pub/os2/all/graphics/jpeg4-16.zip\n 16-bit version of same, for OS/2 1.x.\n/pub/os2/2.x/graphics/imgarc11.zip\n Image Archiver 1.01: image conversion/viewing with PM graphical interface.\n Strong on conversion functions, viewing is a bit weaker. Shareware, $15.\n/pub/os2/2.x/graphics/pmjpeg11.zip\n PMJPEG 1.1: OS/2 2.x port of WinJPEG, a popular viewer for Windows\n (see description in Windows section). Shareware, $20.\n/pub/os2/2.x/graphics/pmview84.zip\n PMView 0.84: JPEG/GIF/BMP viewer. GIF viewing very fast, JPEG viewing\n fast if you have huge amounts of RAM, otherwise about the same speed\n as the above programs. Strong 24-bit display support. Shareware, $20.\n\nMacintosh:\n\nMost Mac JPEG programs rely on Apple\'s JPEG implementation, which is part of\nthe QuickTime system extension; so you need to have QuickTime installed.\nTo use QuickTime, you need a 68020 or better CPU and you need to be running\nSystem 6.0.7 or later. (If you\'re running System 6, you must also install\nthe 32-bit QuickDraw extension; this is built-in on System 7.) You can get\nQuickTime by FTP from ftp.apple.com, file dts/mac/quicktime/quicktime.hqx.\n(As of 11/92, this file contains QuickTime 1.5, which is better than QT 1.0\nin several ways. With respect to JPEG, it is marginally faster and\nconsiderably less prone to crash when fed a corrupt JPEG file. However,\nsome applications seem to have compatibility problems with QT 1.5.)\n\nMac users should keep in mind that QuickTime\'s JPEG format, PICT/JPEG, is\nnot the same as the Usenet-standard JFIF JPEG format. (See section 10 for\ndetails.) If you post images on Usenet, make sure they are in JFIF format.\nMost of the programs mentioned below can generate either format.\n\nThe first choice is probably JPEGView, a free program for viewing images\nthat are in JFIF format, PICT/JPEG format, or GIF format. It also can\nconvert between the two JPEG formats. The current version, 2.0, is a big\nimprovement over prior versions. Get it from sumex-aim.stanford.edu\n(36.44.0.6), file /info-mac/app/jpeg-view-20.hqx. Requires System 7 and\nQuickTime. On 8-bit displays, JPEGView usually produces the best color\nimage quality of all the currently available Mac JPEG viewers. JPEGView can\nview large images in much less memory than other Mac viewers; in fact, it\'s\nthe only one that can deal with JPEG images much over 640x480 pixels on a\ntypical 4MB Mac. Given a large image, JPEGView automatically scales it down\nto fit on the screen, rather than presenting scroll bars like most other\nviewers. (You can zoom in on any desired portion, though.) Some people\nlike this behavior, some don\'t. Overall, JPEGView\'s user interface is very\nwell thought out.\n\nGIFConverter, a shareware ($40) image viewer/converter, supports JFIF and\nPICT/JPEG, as well as GIF and several other image formats. The latest\nversion is 2.3.2. Get it from sumex-aim.stanford.edu, file\n/info-mac/art/gif/gif-converter-232.hqx. Requires System 6.0.5 or later.\nGIFConverter is not better than JPEGView as a plain JPEG/GIF viewer, but\nit has much more extensive image manipulation and format conversion\ncapabilities, so you may find it worth its shareware fee if you do a lot of\nplaying around with images. Also, the newest version of GIFConverter can\nload and save JFIF images *without* QuickTime, so it is your best bet if\nyour machine is too old to run QuickTime. (But it\'s faster with QuickTime.)\nNote: If GIFConverter runs out of memory trying to load a large JPEG, try\nconverting the file to GIF with JPEG Convert, then viewing the GIF version.\n\nJPEG Convert, a Mac version of the free IJG JPEG conversion utilities, is\navailable from sumex-aim.stanford.edu, file /info-mac/app/jpeg-convert-10.hqx.\nThis will run on any Mac, but it only does file conversion, not viewing.\nYou can use it in conjunction with any GIF viewer.\n\nPrevious versions of this FAQ recommended Imagery JPEG v0.6, a JPEG<=>GIF\nconverter based on an old version of the IJG code. If you are using this\nprogram, you definitely should replace it with JPEG Convert.\n\nApple\'s free program PictPixie can view images in JFIF, QuickTime JPEG, and\nGIF format, and can convert between these formats. You can get PictPixie\nfrom ftp.apple.com, file dts/mac/quicktime/qt.1.0.stuff/pictpixie.hqx.\nRequires QuickTime. PictPixie was intended as a developer\'s tool, and it\'s\nreally not the best choice unless you like to fool around with QuickTime.\nSome of its drawbacks are that it requires lots of memory, it produces\nrelatively poor color image quality on anything less than a 24-bit display,\nand it has a relatively unfriendly user interface. Worse, PictPixie is an\nunsupported program, meaning it has some minor bugs that Apple does not\nintend to fix. (There is an old version of PictPixie, called\nPICTCompressor, floating around the net. If you have this you should trash\nit, as it\'s even buggier. Also, the QuickTime Starter Kit includes a much\ncleaned-up descendant of PictPixie called Picture Compressor. Note that\nPicture Compressor is NOT free and may not be distributed on the net.)\n\nStorm Technology\'s Picture Decompress is a free JPEG viewer/converter.\nThis rather old program is inferior to the above programs in many ways, but\nit will run without System 7 or QuickTime, so you may be forced to use it on\nolder systems. (It does need 32-bit QuickDraw, so really old machines can\'t\nuse it.) You can get it from sumex-aim.stanford.edu, file\n/info-mac/app/picture-decompress-201.hqx. You must set the file type of a\ndownloaded image file to \'JPEG\' to allow Picture Decompress to open it.\n\nIf your machine is too old to run 32-bit QuickDraw (a Mac Plus for instance),\nGIFConverter is your only choice for single-program JPEG viewing. If you\ndon\'t want to pay for GIFConverter, use JPEG Convert and a free GIF viewer.\n\nMore and more commercial Mac applications are supporting JPEG, although not\nall can deal with the Usenet-standard JFIF format. Adobe Photoshop, version\n2.0.1 or later, can read and write JFIF-format JPEG files (use the JPEG\nplug-in from the Acquire menu). You must set the file type of a downloaded\nJPEG file to \'JPEG\' to allow Photoshop to recognize it.\n\nAmiga:\n\n(Most programs listed in this section are stored in the AmiNet archive at\namiga.physik.unizh.ch (130.60.80.80). There are many mirror sites of this\narchive and you should try to use the closest one. In the USA, a good\nchoice is wuarchive.wustl.edu; look under /mirrors/amiga.physik.unizh.ch/...)\n\nHamLab Plus is an excellent JPEG viewer/converter, as well as being a\ngeneral image manipulation tool. It\'s cheap (shareware, $20) and can read\nseveral formats besides JPEG. The current version is 2.0.8. A demo version\nis available from amiga.physik.unizh.ch (and mirror sites), file\namiga/gfx/edit/hamlab208d.lha. The demo version will crop images larger\nthan 512x512, but it is otherwise fully functional.\n\nRend24 (shareware, $30) is an image renderer that can display JPEG, ILBM,\nand GIF images. The program can be used to create animations, even\ncapturing frames on-the-fly from rendering packages like Lightwave. The\ncurrent version is 1.05, available from amiga.physik.unizh.ch (and mirror\nsites), file amiga/os30/gfx/rend105.lha. (Note: although this directory is\nsupposedly for AmigaDOS 3.0 programs, the program will also run under\nAmigaDOS 1.3, 2.04 or 2.1.)\n\nViewtek is a free JPEG/ILBM/GIF/ANIM viewer. The current version is 1.04,\navailable from amiga.physik.unizh.ch (and mirror sites), file\namiga/gfx/show/ViewTek104.lha.\n\nIf you\'re willing to spend real money, there are several commercial packages\nthat support JPEG. Two are written by Thomas Krehbiel, the author of Rend24\nand Viewtek. These are CineMorph, a standalone image morphing package, and\nImageFX, an impressive 24-bit image capture, conversion, editing, painting,\neffects and prepress package that also includes CineMorph. Both are\ndistributed by Great Valley Products. Art Department Professional (ADPro),\nfrom ASDG Inc, is the most widely used commercial image manipulation\nsoftware for Amigas. ImageMaster, from Black Belt Systems, is another\nwell-regarded commercial graphics package with JPEG support.\n\nThe free IJG JPEG software is available compiled for Amigas from\namiga.physik.unizh.ch (and mirror sites) in directory amiga/gfx/conv, file\nAmigaJPEGV4.lha. These programs convert JPEG to/from PPM,GIF,Targa formats.\n\nThe Amiga world is heavily infested with quick-and-dirty JPEG programs, many\nbased on an ancient beta-test version of the free IJG JPEG software (thanks\nto a certain magazine that published same on its disk-of-the-month, without\nso much as notifying the authors). Among these are "AugJPEG", "NewAmyJPEG",\n"VJPEG", and probably others I have not even heard of. In my opinion,\nanything older than IJG version 3 (March 1992) is not worth the disk space\nit\'s stored on; if you have such a program, trash it and get something newer.\n\nAtari ST:\n\nThe free IJG JPEG software is available compiled for Atari ST, TT, etc,\nfrom atari.archive.umich.edu, file /atari/Graphics/jpeg4bin.zoo.\nThese programs convert JPEG to/from PPM, GIF, Targa formats.\n\nI have not heard of any free or shareware JPEG-capable viewer for Ataris,\nbut surely there must be one by now? Pointers appreciated.\n\nAcorn Archimedes:\n\n!ChangeFSI, supplied with RISC OS 3 version 3.10, can convert from and view\nJPEG JFIF format. Provision is also made to convert images to JPEG,\nalthough this must be done from the CLI rather than by double-clicking.\n\nRecent versions (since 7.11) of the shareware program Translator can handle\nJPEG, along with about 30 other image formats. While older versions can be\nfound on some Archimedes bboards, the current version is only available by\nregistering with the author, John Kortink, Nutterbrink 31, 7544 WJ, Enschede,\nThe Netherlands. Price 35 Dutch guilders (about $22 or 10 pounds).\n\nThere\'s also a commercial product called !JPEG which provides JPEG read/write\nfunctionality and direct JPEG viewing, as well as a host of other image\nformat conversion and processing options. This is more expensive but not\nnecessarily better than the above programs. Contact: DT Software, FREEPOST,\nCambridge, UK. Tel: 0223 841099.\n\n\nPortable software for almost any system:\n\nIf none of the above fits your situation, you can obtain and compile the free\nJPEG conversion software described in 6B. You\'ll also need a viewer program.\nIf your display is 8 bits or less, any GIF viewer will do fine; if you have a\ndisplay with more color capability, try to find a viewer that can read Targa\nor PPM 24-bit image files.\n\nThere are numerous commercial JPEG offerings, with more popping up every\nday. I recommend that you not spend money on one of these unless you find\nthe available free or shareware software vastly too slow. In that case,\npurchase a hardware-assisted product. Ask pointed questions about whether\nthe product complies with the final JPEG standard and about whether it can\nhandle the JFIF file format; many of the earliest commercial releases are\nnot and never will be compatible with anyone else\'s files.\n\n\n[6B] If you are looking for source code to work with:\n\nFree, portable C code for JPEG compression is available from the Independent\nJPEG Group, which I lead. A package containing our source code,\ndocumentation, and some small test files is available from several places.\nThe "official" archive site for this source code is ftp.uu.net (137.39.1.9\nor 192.48.96.9). Look under directory /graphics/jpeg; the current release\nis jpegsrc.v4.tar.Z. (This is a compressed TAR file; don\'t forget to\nretrieve in binary mode.) You can retrieve this file by FTP or UUCP.\nIf you are on a PC and don\'t know how to cope with .tar.Z format, you may\nprefer ZIP format, which you can find at Simtel20 and mirror sites (see NOTE\nabove), file msdos/graphics/jpegsrc4.zip. This file will also be available on\nCompuServe, in the GRAPHSUPPORT forum (GO PICS), library 15, as jpsrc4.zip.\nIf you have no FTP access, you can retrieve the source from your nearest\ncomp.sources.misc archive; version 4 appeared as issues 55-72 of volume 34.\n(If you don\'t know how to retrieve comp.sources.misc postings, see the FAQ\narticle "How to find sources", referred to at the top of section 6.)\n\nThe free JPEG code provides conversion between JPEG "JFIF" format and image\nfiles in GIF, PBMPLUS PPM/PGM, Utah RLE, and Truevision Targa file formats.\nThe core compression and decompression modules can easily be reused in other\nprograms, such as image viewers. The package is highly portable; we have\ntested it on many machines ranging from PCs to Crays.\n\nWe have released this software for both noncommercial and commercial use.\nCompanies are welcome to use it as the basis for JPEG-related products.\nWe do not ask a royalty, although we do ask for an acknowledgement in\nproduct literature (see the README file in the distribution for details).\nWe hope to make this software industrial-quality --- although, as with\nanything that\'s free, we offer no warranty and accept no liability.\n\nThe Independent JPEG Group is a volunteer organization; if you\'d like to\ncontribute to improving our software, you are welcome to join.\n\n\n[7] What\'s all this hoopla about color quantization?\n\nMost people don\'t have full-color (24 bit per pixel) display hardware.\nTypical display hardware stores 8 or fewer bits per pixel, so it can display\n256 or fewer distinct colors at a time. To display a full-color image, the\ncomputer must map the image into an appropriate set of representative\ncolors. This process is called "color quantization". (This is something\nof a misnomer, "color selection" would be a better term. We\'re stuck with\nthe standard usage though.)\n\nClearly, color quantization is a lossy process. It turns out that for most\nimages, the details of the color quantization algorithm have MUCH more impact\non the final image quality than do any errors introduced by JPEG (except at\nthe very lowest JPEG quality settings).\n\nSince JPEG is a full-color format, converting a color JPEG image for display\non 8-bit-or-less hardware requires color quantization. This is true for\n*all* color JPEGs: even if you feed a 256-or-less-color GIF into JPEG, what\ncomes out of the decompressor is *not* 256 colors, but thousands of colors.\nThis happens because JPEG\'s lossiness affects each pixel a little\ndifferently, so two pixels that started with identical colors will probably\ncome out with slightly different colors. Each original color gets "smeared"\ninto a group of nearby colors. Therefore quantization is always required to\ndisplay a color JPEG on a colormapped display, regardless of the image\nsource. The only way to avoid quantization is to ask for gray-scale output.\n\n(Incidentally, because of this effect it\'s nearly meaningless to talk about\nthe number of colors used by a JPEG image. Even if you attempted to count\nthe number of distinct pixel values, different JPEG decoders would give you\ndifferent results because of roundoff error differences. I occasionally see\nposted images described as "256-color JPEG". This tells me that the poster\n(a) hasn\'t read this FAQ and (b) probably converted the JPEG from a GIF.\nJPEGs can be classified as color or gray-scale (just like photographs), but\nnumber of colors just isn\'t a useful concept for JPEG.)\n\nOn the other hand, a GIF image by definition has already been quantized to\n256 or fewer colors. (A GIF *does* have a definite number of colors in its\npalette, and the format doesn\'t allow more than 256 palette entries.)\nFor purposes of Usenet picture distribution, GIF has the advantage that the\nsender precomputes the color quantization, so recipients don\'t have to.\nThis is also the *disadvantage* of GIF: you\'re stuck with the sender\'s\nquantization. If the sender quantized to a different number of colors than\nwhat you can display, you have to re-quantize, resulting in much poorer\nimage quality than if you had quantized once from a full-color image.\nFurthermore, if the sender didn\'t use a high-quality color quantization\nalgorithm, you\'re out of luck.\n\nFor this reason, JPEG offers the promise of significantly better image quality\nfor all users whose machines don\'t match the sender\'s display hardware.\nJPEG\'s full color image can be quantized to precisely match the user\'s display\nhardware. Furthermore, you will be able to take advantage of future\nimprovements in quantization algorithms (there is a lot of active research in\nthis area), or purchase better display hardware, to get a better view of JPEG\nimages you already have. With a GIF, you\'re stuck forevermore with what was\nsent.\n\nIt\'s also worth mentioning that many GIF-viewing programs include rather\nshoddy quantization routines. If you view a 256-color GIF on a 16-color EGA\ndisplay, for example, you are probably getting a much worse image than you\nneed to. This is partly an inevitable consequence of doing two color\nquantizations (one to create the GIF, one to display it), but often it\'s\nalso due to sloppiness. JPEG conversion programs will be forced to use\nhigh quality quantizers in order to get acceptable results at all, and in\nnormal use they will quantize directly to the number of colors to be\ndisplayed. Thus, JPEG is likely to provide better results than the average\nGIF program for low-color-resolution displays as well as high-resolution ones!\n\nFinally, an ever-growing number of people have better-than-8-bit display\nhardware already: 15-bit "hi-color" PC displays, true 24-bit displays on\nworkstations and Macintoshes, etc. For these people, GIF is already\nobsolete, as it cannot represent an image to the full capabilities of their\ndisplay. JPEG images can drive these displays much more effectively.\nThus, JPEG is an all-around better choice than GIF for representing images\nin a machine-independent fashion.\n\n\n[8] How does JPEG work?\n\nThe buzz-words to know are chrominance subsampling, discrete cosine\ntransforms, coefficient quantization, and Huffman or arithmetic entropy\ncoding. This article\'s long enough already, so I\'m not going to say more\nthan that here. For technical information, see the comp.compression FAQ.\nThis is available from the news.answers archive at rtfm.mit.edu, in files\n/pub/usenet/news.answers/compression-faq/part[1-3]. If you need help in\nusing the news.answers archive, see the top of this article.\n\n\n[9] What about lossless JPEG?\n\nThere\'s a great deal of confusion on this subject. The JPEG committee did\ndefine a truly lossless compression algorithm, i.e., one that guarantees the\nfinal output is bit-for-bit identical to the original input. However, this\nlossless mode has almost nothing in common with the regular, lossy JPEG\nalgorithm, and it offers much less compression. At present, very few\nimplementations of lossless JPEG exist, and all of them are commercial.\n\nSaying "-Q 100" to the free JPEG software DOES NOT get you a lossless image.\nWhat it does get rid of is deliberate information loss in the coefficient\nquantization step. There is still a good deal of information loss in the\ncolor subsampling step. (With the V4 free JPEG code, you can also say\n"-sample 1x1" to turn off subsampling. Keep in mind that many commercial\nJPEG implementations cannot cope with the resulting file.)\n\nEven with both quantization and subsampling turned off, the regular JPEG\nalgorithm is not lossless, because it is subject to roundoff errors in\nvarious calculations. The maximum error is a few counts in any one pixel\nvalue; it\'s highly unlikely that this could be perceived by the human eye,\nbut it might be a concern if you are doing machine processing of an image.\n\nAt this minimum-loss setting, regular JPEG produces files that are perhaps\nhalf the size of an uncompressed 24-bit-per-pixel image. True lossless JPEG\nprovides roughly the same amount of compression, but it guarantees\nbit-for-bit accuracy.\n\nIf you have an application requiring lossless storage of images with less\nthan 6 bits per pixel (per color component), you may want to look into the\nJBIG bilevel image compression standard. This performs better than JPEG\nlossless on such images. JPEG lossless is superior to JBIG on images with\n6 or more bits per pixel; furthermore, JPEG is public domain (at least with a\nHuffman back end), while the JBIG techniques are heavily covered by patents.\n\n\n[10] Why all the argument about file formats?\n\nStrictly speaking, JPEG refers only to a family of compression algorithms;\nit does *not* refer to a specific image file format. The JPEG committee was\nprevented from defining a file format by turf wars within the international\nstandards organizations.\n\nSince we can\'t actually exchange images with anyone else unless we agree on\na common file format, this leaves us with a problem. In the absence of\nofficial standards, a number of JPEG program writers have just gone off to\n"do their own thing", and as a result their programs aren\'t compatible with\nanybody else\'s.\n\nThe closest thing we have to a de-facto standard JPEG format is some work\nthat\'s been coordinated by people at C-Cube Microsystems. They have defined\ntwo JPEG-based file formats:\n * JFIF (JPEG File Interchange Format), a "low-end" format that transports\n pixels and not much else.\n * TIFF/JPEG, aka TIFF 6.0, an extension of the Aldus TIFF format. TIFF is\n a "high-end" format that will let you record just about everything you\n ever wanted to know about an image, and a lot more besides :-). TIFF is\n a lot more complex than JFIF, and may well prove less transportable,\n because different vendors have historically implemented slightly different\n and incompatible subsets of TIFF. It\'s not likely that adding JPEG to the\n mix will do anything to improve this situation.\nBoth of these formats were developed with input from all the major vendors\nof JPEG-related products; it\'s reasonably likely that future commercial\nproducts will adhere to one or both standards.\n\nI believe that Usenet should adopt JFIF as the replacement for GIF in\npicture postings. JFIF is simpler than TIFF and is available now; the\nTIFF 6.0 spec has only recently been officially adopted, and it is still\nunusably vague on some crucial details. Even when TIFF/JPEG is well\ndefined, the JFIF format is likely to be a widely supported "lowest common\ndenominator"; TIFF/JPEG files may never be as transportable.\n\nA particular case that people may be interested in is Apple\'s QuickTime\nsoftware for the Macintosh. QuickTime uses a JFIF-compatible format wrapped\ninside the Mac-specific PICT structure. Conversion between JFIF and\nQuickTime JPEG is pretty straightforward, and several Mac programs are\navailable to do it (see Mac portion of section 6A). If you have an editor\nthat handles binary files, you can strip a QuickTime JPEG PICT down to JFIF\nby hand; see section 11 for details.\n\nAnother particular case is Handmade Software\'s programs (GIF2JPG/JPG2GIF and\nImage Alchemy). These programs are capable of reading and writing JFIF\nformat. By default, though, they write a proprietary format developed by\nHSI. This format is NOT readable by any non-HSI programs and should not be\nused for Usenet postings. Use the -j switch to get JFIF output. (This\napplies to old versions of these programs; the current releases emit JFIF\nformat by default. You still should be careful not to post HSI-format\nfiles, unless you want to get flamed by people on non-PC platforms.)\n\n\n[11] How do I recognize which file format I have, and what do I do about it?\n\nIf you have an alleged JPEG file that your software won\'t read, it\'s likely\nto be HSI format or some other proprietary JPEG-based format. You can tell\nwhat you have by inspecting the first few bytes of the file:\n\n1. A JFIF-standard file will start with the characters (hex) FF D8 FF E0,\n followed by two variable bytes (often hex 00 10), followed by \'JFIF\'.\n\n2. If you see FF D8 at the start, but not the rest of it, you may have a\n "raw JPEG" file. This is probably decodable as-is by JFIF software ---\n it\'s worth a try, anyway.\n\n3. HSI files start with \'hsi1\'. You\'re out of luck unless you have HSI\n software. Portions of the file may look like plain JPEG data, but they\n won\'t decompress properly with non-HSI programs.\n\n4. A Macintosh PICT file, if JPEG-compressed, will have a couple hundred\n bytes of header followed by a JFIF header (scan for \'JFIF\'). Strip off\n everything before the FF D8 and you should be able to read it.\n\n5. Anything else: it\'s a proprietary format, or not JPEG at all. If you are\n lucky, the file may consist of a header and a raw JPEG data stream.\n If you can identify the start of the JPEG data stream (look for FF D8),\n try stripping off everything before that.\n\nIn uuencoded Usenet postings, the characteristic JFIF pattern is\n\n\t"begin" line\n\tM_]C_X ...\n\nwhereas uuencoded HSI files will start with\n\n\t"begin" line\n\tM:\'-I ...\n\nIf you learn to check for the former, you can save yourself the trouble of\ndownloading non-JFIF files.\n\n\n[12] What about arithmetic coding?\n\nThe JPEG spec defines two different "back end" modules for the final output\nof compressed data: either Huffman coding or arithmetic coding is allowed.\nThe choice has no impact on image quality, but arithmetic coding usually\nproduces a smaller compressed file. On typical images, arithmetic coding\nproduces a file 5 or 10 percent smaller than Huffman coding. (All the\nfile-size numbers previously cited are for Huffman coding.)\n\nUnfortunately, the particular variant of arithmetic coding specified by the\nJPEG standard is subject to patents owned by IBM, AT&T, and Mitsubishi.\nThus *you cannot legally use arithmetic coding* unless you obtain licenses\nfrom these companies. (The "fair use" doctrine allows people to implement\nand test the algorithm, but actually storing any images with it is dubious\nat best.)\n\nAt least in the short run, I recommend that people not worry about\narithmetic coding; the space savings isn\'t great enough to justify the\npotential legal hassles. In particular, arithmetic coding *should not*\nbe used for any images to be exchanged on Usenet.\n\nThere is some small chance that the legal situation may change in the\nfuture. Stay tuned for further details.\n\n\n[13] Does loss accumulate with repeated compression/decompression?\n\nIt would be nice if, having compressed an image with JPEG, you could\ndecompress it, manipulate it (crop off a border, say), and recompress it\nwithout any further image degradation beyond what you lost initially.\nUnfortunately THIS IS NOT THE CASE. In general, recompressing an altered\nimage loses more information, though usually not as much as was lost the\nfirst time around.\n\nThe next best thing would be that if you decompress an image and recompress\nit *without changing it* then there is no further loss, i.e., you get an\nidentical JPEG file. Even this is not true; at least, not with the current\nfree JPEG software. It\'s essentially a problem of accumulation of roundoff\nerror. If you repeatedly compress and decompress, the image will eventually\ndegrade to where you can see visible changes from the first-generation\noutput. (It usually takes many such cycles to get visible change.)\nOne of the things on our to-do list is to see if accumulation of error can\nbe avoided or limited, but I am not optimistic about it.\n\nIn any case, the most that could possibly be guaranteed would be that\ncompressing the unmodified full-color output of djpeg, at the original\nquality setting, would introduce no further loss. Even such simple changes\nas cropping off a border could cause further roundoff-error degradation.\n(If you\'re wondering why, it\'s because the pixel-block boundaries move.\nIf you cropped off only multiples of 16 pixels, you might be safe, but\nthat\'s a mighty limited capability!)\n\nThe bottom line is that JPEG is a useful format for archival storage and\ntransmission of images, but you don\'t want to use it as an intermediate\nformat for sequences of image manipulation steps. Use a lossless format\n(PPM, RLE, TIFF, etc) while working on the image, then JPEG it when you are\nready to file it away. Aside from avoiding degradation, you will save a lot\nof compression/decompression time this way :-).\n\n\n[14] What are some rules of thumb for converting GIF images to JPEG?\n\nAs stated earlier, you *will* lose some amount of image information if you\nconvert an existing GIF image to JPEG. If you can obtain the original\nfull-color data the GIF was made from, it\'s far better to make a JPEG from\nthat. But if you need to save space and have only the GIF to work from,\nhere are some suggestions for getting maximum space savings with minimum\nloss of quality.\n\nThe first rule when converting a GIF library is to look at each JPEG, to\nmake sure you are happy with it, before throwing away the corresponding GIF;\nthat will give you a chance to re-do the conversion with a higher quality\nsetting if necessary. Some GIFs may be better left as GIFs, as explained in\nsection 3; in particular, cartoon-type GIFs with sixteen or fewer colors\ndon\'t convert well. You may find that a JPEG file of reasonable quality\nwill be *larger* than the GIF. (So check the sizes too.)\n\nExperience to date suggests that large, high-visual-quality GIFs are the best\ncandidates for conversion to JPEG. They chew up the most storage so offer\nthe most potential savings, and they convert to JPEG with least degradation.\nDon\'t waste your time converting any GIF much under 100 Kbytes. Also, don\'t\nexpect JPEG files converted from GIFs to be as small as those created\ndirectly from full-color originals. To maintain image quality you may have\nto let the converted files be as much as twice as big as straight-through\nJPEG files would be (i.e., shoot for 1/2 or 1/3rd the size of the GIF file,\nnot 1/4th as suggested in earlier comparisons).\n\nMany people have developed an odd habit of putting a large constant-color\nborder around a GIF image. While useless, this was nearly free in terms of\nstorage cost in GIF files. It is NOT free in JPEG files, and the sharp\nborder boundary can create visible artifacts ("ghost" edges). Do yourself\na favor and crop off any border before JPEGing. (If you are on an X Windows\nsystem, XV\'s manual and automatic cropping functions are a very painless\nway to do this.)\n\ncjpeg\'s default Q setting of 75 is appropriate for full-color input, but\nfor GIF inputs, Q settings of 85 to 95 often seem to be necessary to avoid\nimage degradation. (If you apply smoothing as suggested below, the higher\nQ setting may not be necessary.)\n\nColor GIFs of photographs or complex artwork are usually "dithered" to fool\nyour eye into seeing more than the 256 colors that GIF can actually store.\nIf you enlarge the image, you will see that adjacent pixels are often of\nsignificantly different colors; at normal size the eye averages these pixels\ntogether to produce the illusion of an intermediate color value. The\ntrouble with dithering is that, to JPEG, it looks like high-spatial-frequency\ncolor noise; and JPEG can\'t compress noise very well. The resulting JPEG\nfile is both larger and of lower image quality than what you would have\ngotten from JPEGing the original full color image (if you had it).\nTo get around this, you want to "smooth" the GIF image before compression.\nSmoothing averages together nearby pixels, thus approximating the color that\nyou thought you saw anyway, and in the process getting rid of the rapid\ncolor changes that give JPEG trouble. Appropriate use of smoothing will\noften let you avoid using a high Q factor, thus further reducing the size of\nthe compressed file, while still obtaining a better-looking output image\nthan you\'d get without smoothing.\n\nWith the V4 free JPEG software (or products based on it), a simple smoothing\ncapability is built in. Try "-smooth 10" or so when converting GIFs.\nValues of 10 to 25 seem to work well for high-quality GIFs. Heavy-handed\ndithering may require larger smoothing factors. (If you can see regular\nfine-scale patterns on the GIF image even without enlargement, then strong\nsmoothing is definitely called for.) Too large a smoothing factor will blur\nthe output image, which you don\'t want. If you are an image processing\nwizard, you can also do smoothing with a separate filtering program, such as\npnmconvol from the PBMPLUS package. However, cjpeg\'s built-in smoother is\na LOT faster than pnmconvol...\n\nThe upshot of all this is that "cjpeg -quality 85 -smooth 10" is probably a\ngood starting point for converting GIFs. But if you really care about the\nimage, you\'ll want to check the results and maybe try a few other settings.\n\n\n---------------------\n\nFor more information about JPEG in general or the free JPEG software in\nparticular, contact the Independent JPEG Group at jpeg-info@uunet.uu.net.\n\n-- \n\t\t\ttom lane\n\t\t\torganizer, Independent JPEG Group\nInternet: tgl@cs.cmu.edu\tBITNET: tgl%cs.cmu.edu@carnegie\n',
"From: mmm@cup.portal.com (Mark Robert Thorson)\nSubject: Re: food-related seizures?\nOrganization: The Portal System (TM)\nDistribution: world\nLines: 6\n\nI remember hearing a few years back about a new therapy for hyperactivity\nwhich involved aggressively eliminating artificial coloring and flavoring\nfrom the diet. The theory -- which was backed up by interesting anecdotal\nresults -- is that certain people are just way more sensitive to these\nchemicals than other people. I don't remember any connection being made\nwith seizures, but it certainly couldn't hurt to try an all-natural diet.\n",
'From: kilroy@gboro.rowan.edu (Dr Nancy\'s Sweetie)\nSubject: Re: Certainty and Arrogance\nOrganization: Rowan College of New Jersey\nLines: 122\n\nIn an earlier article, I explained that what many people find arrogant about\nChristians is that some Christians profess absolute certianty about their\nbeliefs and doctrines. That is, many Christians insist that they CANNOT have\nmade any mistakes when discovering their beliefs, which amounts to saying\nthat they are infallible.\n\nImpicitly claiming to be infallible is pretty arrogant, most of us will\nprobably agree.\n\nIn short, the problem is that no matter how good your sources are, if any\npart of your doctrines or beliefs rest on your own thinking and reasoning,\nthen those doctrines are suspect. So long as your own brain is involved,\nthere is a possibility for error. I summarised the problem by writing "There\nis no way out of the loop."\n\n\nSomeone called `REXLEX\' has claimed that there IS a way out of the loop, but\nhe did not bother to explain what it was, preferring instead to paraphrase\nSartre, ramble about Wittgenstein, and say that the conclusion of my argument\nleads to relativism.\n\nAs I have explained to him before, you cannot reject an argument as false\nbecause you dislike where it leads: the facts do not change just because\nyou dislike them. `REXLEX\' wrote:\n\n> I disagree with Dr Nancy\'s Sweetie\'s conclusion because if it is\n> taken to fruition it leads to relativism which leads to dispair.\n\nHowever, as any first-year philosophy student can explain, what `REXLEX\' has\nwritten does not constitute a refutation. All he has said is that he does\nnot like what I wrote -- he has done nothing at all to dispute it.\n\n *\n\nThere were two sentences in `REXLEX\'s post that seemed relevant to the\npoint at hand:\n\n> There is such a thing as true truth and it is real, it can be\n> experienced and it is verifiable.\n\nI do not dispute that some truths can be verified through experience. I\nhave, for example, direct experience of adding numbers. I don\'t claim to\nbe infallible at it -- in fact I remember doing sums incorrectly -- but I\ndo claim that I have direct experience of reasoning about numbers.\n\nHowever, once we go past experiencing things and start reasoning about\nthem, we are on much shakier ground. That was the point of the earlier\narticle. Human brains are infested with sin, and they can only be trusted\nin very limited circumstances.\n\n\n> It is only because of God\'s own revelation that we can be absolute\n> about a thing.\n\nBut how far does that get you? Once God\'s revelation stops, and your own\nreasoning begins, possibility for error appears.\n\nFor example, let\'s suppose that our modern Bible translations include a\nperfect rendering of Jesus words at the Last Supper, and that Jesus said,\nexactly, "This is my body."\n\nWe\'ll presume that what he said was totally without error and absolutely\ntrue. What can we be certain of? Not much.\n\nAt the moment he stops speaking, and people start interpreting, the\npossibility of error appears. Did he mean that literally or not? We do\nnot have any record that he elaborated on the words. Was he thinking of\nTran- or Con- substatiation? He didn\'t say. We interpret this passage\nusing our brains; we think and reason and draw conclusions. But we know\nthat our brains are not perfect: our thinking often leads us wrong. (This\nis something that most of us have direct experience of. 8-)\n\nWhy should anyone believe that his reasoning -- which he knows to be\nfallible -- can lead him to perfect conclusions?\n\nSo, given the assumptions in this example, what we can be certain of is\nthat Jesus said "This is my body." Beyond that, once we start making up\ndoctrines and using our brains to reason about what Christ revealed, we\nget into trouble.\n\nUnless you are infallible, there are very few things you can be certain\nof. To the extent that doctrines rely on fallible human thinking, they\ncannot be certain.\n\n\n\nThat is the problem of seeming arrogant. The non-Christians around us know\nthat human beings make mistakes, just as surely as we know it. They do not\nbelieve we are infallible, any more than we do.\n\nWhen Christians speak as if they believe their own reasoning can never lead\nthem astray -- when we implicitly claim that we are infallible -- the non-\nChristians around us rarely believe that implicit claim. Witnessing is\nhardly going to work when the person you are talking to believes that you\nare either too foolish to recognise your own limits, or intentionally trying\nto cover them up.\n\nI think it would be far better to say what things we are certain of and what\nthings we are only "very confident" of. For example, we might say that we\nknow our sin, for recognising sin is something we directly experience. But\nother things, whether based on reasoning from Scripture or extra-Biblical\nthinking, should not be labled as infallible: we should say that we are\nvery confident of them, and be ready to explain our reasoning.\n\nBut, so far as I am aware, none of us is infallible -- speaking or acting\nas if our thinking is flawless is ridiculous.\n\n *\n\n`REXLEX\' suggested that people read _He is There and He is Not Silent_, by\nFrancis Schaeffer. I didn\'t think very highly of it, but I think that\nMr Schaeffer is grossly overrated by many Evangelical Christians. Somebody\nelse might like it, though, so don\'t let my opinion stop you from reading it.\n\nIf someone is interested in my opinion, I\'d suggest _On Certainty_, by\nLudwig Wittgenstein.\n\n\nDarren F Provine / kilroy@gboro.rowan.edu\n"If any substantial number of [ talk.religion.misc ] readers read some\n Wittgenstein, 60% of the postings would disappear. (If they *understood*\n some Wittgenstein, 98% would disappear. :-))" -- Michael L Siemon\n',
'From: Gordon_Sumerling@itd.dsto.gov.au (Gordon Sumerling)\nSubject: Re: Grayscale Printer\nOrganization: ITD/DSTO\nLines: 2\nDistribution: na\nNNTP-Posting-Host: iapmac2.dsto.gov.au\n\nHave you considered the Apple Laserwriter IIg. We use it for all our B&W\nimage printing.\n',
'From: lucio@proxima.alt.za (Lucio de Re)\nSubject: A fundamental contradiction (was: A visit from JWs)\nReply-To: lucio@proxima.Alt.ZA\nOrganization: MegaByte Digital Telecommunications\nLines: 35\n\njbrown@batman.bmd.trw.com writes:\n\n>"Will" is "self-determination". In other words, God created conscious\n>beings who have the ability to choose between moral choices independently\n>of God. All "will", therefore, is "free will".\n\nThe above is probably not the most representative paragraph, but I\nthought I\'d hop on, anyway...\n\nWhat strikes me as self-contradicting in the fable of Lucifer\'s\nfall - which, by the way, I seem to recall to be more speculation\nthan based on biblical text, but my ex RCism may be showing - is\nthat, as Benedikt pointed out, Lucifer had perfect nature, yet he\nhad the free will to "choose" evil. But where did that choice come\nfrom?\n\nWe know from Genesis that Eve was offered an opportunity to sin by a\ntempter which many assume was Satan, but how did Lucifer discover,\ninvent, create, call the action what you will, something that God\nhad not given origin to?\n\nAlso, where in the Bible is there mention of Lucifer\'s free will?\nWe make a big fuss about mankind having free will, but it strikes me\nas being an after-the-fact rationalisation, and in fact, like\nsalvation, not one that all Christians believe in identically.\n\nAt least in my mind, salvation and free will are very tightly\ncoupled, but then my theology was Roman Catholic...\n\nStill, how do theologian explain Lucifer\'s fall? If Lucifer had\nperfect nature (did man?) how could he fall? How could he execute an\nact that (a) contradicted his nature and (b) in effect cause evil to\nexist for the first time?\n-- \nLucio de Re (lucio@proxima.Alt.ZA) - tab stops at four.\n',
'From: bls101@keating.anu.edu.au (The New, Improved Brian Scearce)\nSubject: Re: Krillean Photography\nOrganization: Australian National University\nLines: 44\nNNTP-Posting-Host: 150.203.126.9\nIn-reply-to: todamhyp@charles.unlv.edu\'s message of Mon, 19 Apr 93 20:56:15 GMT\n\nIn-reply-to: todamhyp@charles.unlv.edu\'s message of Mon, 19 Apr 93 20:56:15 GMT\nNewsgroups: sci.energy,sci.image.processing,sci.anthropology,alt.sci.physics.new-theories,sci.skeptic,sci.med,alt.alien.visitors\nSubject: Re: Krillean Photography\nReferences: <1993Apr19.205615.1013@unlv.edu>\nDistribution: \n--text follows this line--\ntodamhyp@charles.unlv.edu (Brian M. Huey) writes:\n\n\t I am looking for any information/supplies that will allow\n do-it-yourselfers to take Krillean Pictures. I\'m thinking\n that education suppliers for schools might have a appartus for\n sale, but I don\'t know any of the companies. Any info is greatly\n appreciated.\n\t In case you don\'t know, Krillean Photography, to the best of my\n knowledge, involves taking pictures of an (most of the time) organic\n object between charged plates. The picture will show energy patterns\n or spikes around the object photographed, and depending on what type\n of object it is, the spikes or energy patterns will vary. One might\n extrapolate here and say that this proves that every object within\n the universe (as we know it) has its own energy signature.\n\nThere have been a number of scientific papers (in peer-reviewed journals)\npublished about Kirlian photography in the early 1970s. Sorry I can\'t be\nmore specific but it is a long time since I read them. They would describe\nwhat is needed and how to set up the apparatus. \n\nThese papers demonstrate that the auras obtained by Kirlian photography can\nbe completely explained by the effect of the electric currents used on the\nmoisture in the object being photographed. It has nothing to do with the\n"energy signature" of organic objects.\n\nI did a science project on Kirlian photography when I was in high school.\nI was able to obtain wonderful auras from rocks and pebbles and the like by\nfirst dunking them in water.\n\nBarbara\n--\n\n\n\n--\nbls101@syseng.anu.edu.au\n"I generally avoid temptation unless I can\'t resist it." \n - Mae West \n',
'From: aa888@freenet.carleton.ca (Mark Baker)\nSubject: Re: The arrogance of Christians\nReply-To: aa888@freenet.carleton.ca (Mark Baker)\nOrganization: The National Capital Freenet\nLines: 22\n\nIn a previous article, mhsu@lonestar.utsa.edu (Melinda . Hsu) says:\n\n>\n>Well the argument usually stops right there. In the end,\n>aren\'t we all just kids, groping for the truth? If so, do we have\n>the authority to declare all other beliefs besides our own as\n>false?\n>\n\nIf I don\'t think my belief is right and everyone else\'s belief is wrong,\nthen I don\'t have a belief. This is simply what belief means. Where does\nthe authority for a belief come from? Nowhere, for a belief is itself\nauthoratative. If I produce authority for a belief, where will I find\nauthority for my belief in the legitimacy of the authority. In short, \nthe mind has to start somewhere. (By the way, the majority of Christians,\ni.e. Catholics, believe in the authority of the Church, and derive the\nauthority of the Bible from its acceptance by the Church.)\n-- \n==============================================================================\nMark Baker | "The task ... is not to cut down jungles, but \naa888@Freenet.carleton.ca | to irrigate deserts." -- C. S. Lewis\n==============================================================================\n',
'From: jkellett@netcom.com (Joe Kellett)\nSubject: Re: sex education\nOrganization: Netcom\nLines: 20\n\nIn article <Apr.20.03.01.57.1993.3782@geneva.rutgers.edu> bruce@liv.ac.uk (Bruce Stephens) writes:\n>I\'d be fascinated to see such evidence, please send me your article!\n>On the negative side however, I suspect that any such simplistic link\n> abstinence-education => decreased pregnancy,\n> contraceptive-education => increased pregnancy\n>is false. The US, which I\'d guess has one of the largest proportion of \n>"non-liberal" sex education in the western world also has one of the highest\n>teenage pregnancy rates. (Please correct me if my guess is wrong.)\n\nI\'ve sent the article. In terms of the group discussion, I wanted to point\nout that "non-liberal education" (head in the sand) is not the same as\n"abstinence education".\n\nWe had "non-liberal education" regarding drugs when I was a kid in the 60\'s,\nwhich didn\'t do us a lot of good. But "abstinence education" regarding\ndrugs has proven effective, I think.\n\n-- \nJoe Kellett\njkellett@netcom.com\n',
'From: keith@cco.caltech.edu (Keith Allan Schneider)\nSubject: Re: Objective morality (was Re: <Political Atheists?)\nOrganization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena\nLines: 44\nNNTP-Posting-Host: lloyd.caltech.edu\n\nlivesey@solntze.wpd.sgi.com (Jon Livesey) writes:\n\n>Humans have "gone somewhat beyond" what, exactly? In one thread\n>you\'re telling us that natural morality is what animals do to\n>survive, and in this thread you are claiming that an omniscient\n>being can "definitely" say what is right and what is wrong. So\n>what does this omniscient being use for a criterion? The long-\n>term survival of the human species, or what?\n\nWell, that\'s the question, isn\'t it? The goals are probably not all that\nobvious. We can set up a few goals, like happiness and liberty and\nthe golden rule, etc. But these goals aren\'t inherent. They have to\nbe defined before an objective system is possible.\n\n>How does omniscient map into "definitely" being able to assign\n>"right" and "wrong" to actions?\n\nIt is not too difficult, one you have goals in mind, and absolute\nknoweldge of everyone\'s intent, etc.\n\n>>Now you are letting an omniscient being give information to me. This\n>>was not part of the original premise.\n>Well, your "original premises" have a habit of changing over time,\n>so perhaps you\'d like to review it for us, and tell us what the\n>difference is between an omniscient being be able to assign "right"\n>and "wrong" to actions, and telling us the result, is. \n\nOmniscience is fine, as long as information is not given away. Isn\'t\nthis the resolution of the free will problem? An interactive omniscient\nbeing changes the situation.\n\n>>Which type of morality are you talking about? In a natural sense, it\n>>is not at all immoral to harm another species (as long as it doesn\'t\n>>adversely affect your own, I guess).\n>I\'m talking about the morality introduced by you, which was going to\n>be implemented by this omniscient being that can "definitely" assign\n>"right" and "wrong" to actions.\n>You tell us what type of morality that is.\n\nWell, I was speaking about an objective system in general. I didn\'t\nmention a specific goal, which would be necessary to determine the\nmorality of an action.\n\nkeith\n',
'From: ns14@crux3.cit.cornell.edu (Nathan Otto Siemers)\nSubject: Re: Analgesics with Diuretics\nIn-Reply-To: dyer@spdcc.com\'s message of Tue, 6 Apr 1993 03:28:57 GMT\nNntp-Posting-Host: crux3.cit.cornell.edu\nOrganization: Department of Chemistry, Cornell Univ.\nLines: 34\n\n>>>>> On Tue, 6 Apr 1993 03:28:57 GMT, dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer) said:\n\n | In article <ofk=lve00WB2AvUktO@andrew.cmu.edu> Lawrence Curcio <lc2b+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:\n|>I sometimes see OTC preparations for muscle aches/back aches that\n|>combine aspirin with a diuretic.\n\n | You certainly do not see OTC preparations advertised as such.\n | The only such ridiculous concoctions are nostrums for premenstrual\n | syndrome, ostensibly to treat headache and "bloating" simultaneously.\n | They\'re worthless.\n\n|>The idea seems to be to reduce\n|>inflammation by getting rid of fluid. Does this actually work? \n\n | That\'s not the idea, and no, they don\'t work.\n\n\tI *believe* there is a known synergism between certain\nanalgesics and caffiene. For treating pain, not inflammation.\n\n\tNow that I am an ibuprofen convert I haven\'t taken it for some\ntime, but excedrin really works! (grin)\n\nNathan\n\n\n\n | -- \n | Steve Dyer\n | dyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer\n--\n ......:bb|`:||,\tnathan@chemres.tn.cornell.edu\n ... .||: `||bbbbb\n .. ,:` .``"P$$$\n .||. , . ` .`P$\n',
'From: parkin@Eng.Sun.COM (Michael Parkin)\nSubject: Re: DID HE REALLY RISE???\nReply-To: parkin@Eng.Sun.COM\nOrganization: Sun Microsystems Inc., Mountain View, CA\nLines: 57\n\nAnother issue of importance. Was the crucification the will of God or\na tragic mistake. I believe it was a tragic mistake. God\'s will can\nnever be accomplished through the disbelief of man. Jesus came to\nthis world to build the kingdom of heaven on the earth. He\ndesperately wanted the Jewish people to accept him as the Messiah. If\nthe crucification was the will of God how could Jesus pray that this\ncup pass from him. Was this out of weakness. NEVER. Many men and\nwomen have given their lives for their country or other noble causes.\nIs Jesus less than these. No he is not. He knew the crucification\nwas NOT the will of GOD. God\'s will was that the Jewish people accept\nJesus as the Messiah and that the kingdom of Heaven be established on\nthe earth with Jesus as it\'s head. (Just like the Jewish people\nexpected). If this had happened 2000 years ago can you imagine what\nkind of world we would live in today. It would be a very different\nworld. And that is eactly what GOD wanted. Men and women of that age\ncould have been saved by following the living Messiah while he was on\nthe earth. Jesus could have established a sinless lineage that would\nhave continued his reign after his ascension to the spiritual world to\nlive with GOD. Now the kingdom of heaven on the earth will have to\nwait for Christ\'s return. But when he returns will he be recognized\nand will he find faith on this earth. Isn\'t it about time for his\nreturn. It\'s been almost 2000 years.\n\nMike\n\n\nIn article 28885@athos.rutgers.edu, oser@fermi.wustl.edu (Scott Oser) writes:\nIn article <Apr.10.05.33.59.1993.14428@athos.rutgers.edu> mcovingt@aisun3.ai.uga.edu (Michael Covington) writes:\n>The two historic facts that I think the most important are these:\n>\n>(1) If Jesus didn\'t rise from the dead, then he must have done something\n>else equally impressive, in order to create the observed amount of impact.\n>\n>(2) Nobody ever displayed the dead body of Jesus, even though both the\n>Jewish and the Roman authorities would have gained a lot by doing so\n>(it would have discredited the Christians).\n\nAnd the two simplest refutations are these:\n\n(1) What impact? The only record of impact comes from the New Testament.\nI have no guarantee that its books are in the least accurate, and that\nthe recorded "impact" actually happened. I find it interesting that no other\ncontemporary source records an eclipse, an earthquake, a temple curtain\nbeing torn, etc. The earliest written claim we have of Jesus\' resurrection\nis from the Pauline epistles, none of which were written sooner than 20 years\nafter the supposed event.\n\n(2) It seems probable that no one displayed the body of Jesus because no\none knew where it was. I personally believe that the most likely\nexplanation was that the body was stolen (by disciples, or by graverobbers).\nDon\'t bother with the point about the guards ... it only appears in one\ngospel, and seems like exactly the sort of thing early Christians might make\nup in order to counter the grave-robbing charge. The New Testament does\nrecord that Jews believed the body had been stolen. If there were really\nguards, they could not have effectively made this claim, as they did.\n\n-Scott O.\n',
"From: rych@festival.ed.ac.uk (R Hawkes)\nSubject: 3DS: Where did all the texture rules go?\nLines: 21\n\nHi,\n\nI've noticed that if you only save a model (with all your mapping planes\npositioned carefully) to a .3DS file that when you reload it after restarting\n3DS, they are given a default position and orientation. But if you save\nto a .PRJ file their positions/orientation are preserved. Does anyone\nknow why this information is not stored in the .3DS file? Nothing is\nexplicitly said in the manual about saving texture rules in the .PRJ file. \nI'd like to be able to read the texture rule information, does anyone have \nthe format for the .PRJ file?\n\nIs the .CEL file format available from somewhere?\n\nRych\n\n======================================================================\nRycharde Hawkes\t\t\t\temail: rych@festival.ed.ac.uk\nVirtual Environment Laboratory\nDept. of Psychology\t\t\tTel : +44 31 650 3426\nUniv. of Edinburgh\t\t\tFax : +44 31 667 0150\n======================================================================\n",
'From: conditt@tsd.arlut.utexas.edu (Paul Conditt)\nSubject: Re: christians and aids\nOrganization: Applied Research Laboratories, University of Texas at Austin\nLines: 98\n\nIn article <Apr.8.00.57.49.1993.28271@athos.rutgers.edu> marka@travis.csd.harris.com (Mark Ashley) writes:\n>In article <Apr.7.01.55.33.1993.22762@athos.rutgers.edu> kevin@pictel.pictel.com (Kevin Davis) writes:\n>>Many Christians believe in abstinence, but in a moment will be overcome\n>>by desire. We all compromise and rationalize poor choices (sin). Last\n>>week I was guilty of anger, jealousy, and whole mess of other stuff,\n>>yet I am forgiven and not condemned to suffer with AIDs. To even\n>>suggest that AIDS is "deserved" is ludicrous.\n>\n>Some rules are made because at some point man is too stupid\n>to know better. Yet, eventually man learns. But only after\n>getting a lesson from experience.\n\nYes, it\'s important to realize that all actions have consequences,\nand that "rules" were made for our own good. But to suggest that a\n*disease* is a *punishment* for certain types of sin I think is \ntaking things much too far. If we got some kind of mouth disease\nfor lying, would any of us have mouths left? What if we developed\nblindness every time we lusted after someone or something? I dare\nsay all of us would be walking into walls.\n>\n>I wonder if AIDS would be a problem now if people didn\'t get\n>involved in deviant sexual behaviour. Certainly, people who\n>received tainted blood are not to blame. But it just goes\n>to show that all mankind is affected by the actions of a few.\n\nYes, sin can have terrible consequences, but we need to be *real*\ncareful when saying that the consequences are a *punishment* for \nsin. The Jews of Jesus\'s time believed that all sickness was the\nresult of a sin. Then Jesus healed a blind man and said that man was\nblind to show the glory of God, not because of sin. If AIDS, or any\nother STD is a *punishment" for sexual sin, what do we do with \ndiseases like cancer, or multiple sclerosis, which are just as\ndebilitating and terrible as AIDS, yet are not usually linked to a\nspecific behavior or lifestyle?\n>\n>In addition, IMHO forgiveness is not the end of things.\n>There is still the matter of atonement. Is it AIDS ?\n>I don\'t know.\n\nAtonement is *extremely* important, but I think you\'ve missed the mark\nabout as far as you can by suggesting that AIDS is an atonement for sin.\nThe atonement for sin is JESUS CHRIST - period. This is the central\nmessage of the Gospel. A perfect sacrifice was required for our sins,\nand was made in the Lamb of God. His sacrifice atoned for *all* of\nour sins, past present and future. God does not require pennance for\nour sins, nor does he require us to come up with our own atonement. He\nhas graciously already done that for us. To suggest that AIDS or \nsome other consequence is an atonement for sins is literally spitting\non the sacrifice that Jesus made.\n\nIn case you couldn\'t tell, I get *extremely* angry and upset when\nI see things like this. Instead of rationalizing our own fears and\nphobias, we need to be reaching out to people with AIDS and other\nsocially unacceptable diseases. Whether they got the disease through\ntheir own actions or not is irrelevant. They still need Jesus Christ,\nno more and no less than we do. I\'ve said this before, but I think\nit\'s a good analogy. People with AIDS are modern-day lepers. Jesus\nhealed many lepers. He can also heal people with AIDS, maybe not on\nthis earth, but in an ultimate sense. My next-door neighbor has AIDS.\nShe has recently come to have a much deeper and more committed \nrelationship with God. Her theology isn\'t what I would want it to be,\nbut God\'s grace covers her. The amazing thing is that she is gaining\nweight (she\'s had the disease for over 2 years) and her health is\nexcellent apart from occassional skin rashes and such. She attributes\nher improvement in her health to God\'s intervention in her life. Who\nare we to suggest that her disease is some kind of punishment? It\nseems to me that God is being glorified through her disease.\n\nPaul Overstreet, the country singer, has a good song title that I \nthink applies to all of us - But for the Grace of God, There Go I\n(or something like that).\n\nMay we all experience and accept God\'s grace.\n>\n>-------------------------------------------------------------------------\n>Mark Ashley |DISCLAIMER: The opinions expressed\n>marka@gcx1.ssd.csd.harris.com |here are my own; they do not\n>..!uunet!gcx1!marka |reflect the opinion or policies\n>The Lost Los Angelino |of Harris Corporation.\n>-------------------------------------------------------------------------\n\n\n===============================================================================\nPaul Conditt\t\tInternet: conditt@titan.tsd.arlut.utexas.edu\nApplied Research\tPhone:\t (512) 835-3422 FAX: (512) 835-3416/3259\n Laboratories\t\tFedex:\t 10000 Burnet Road, Austin, Texas 78758-4423\nUniversity of Texas\tPostal:\t P.O. Box 8029, Austin, Texas 78713-8029\nAustin, Texas <----- the most wonderful place in Texas to live\n\n\n TTTTTTTTTTTTTTT \n TTT TTT TTT \n TTT \n TTTTTTTTTTTTT Texas Tech Lady Raiders\n TT TTT TT 1992-93 SWC Champions\n TTT 1992-93 NCAA National Champions\n TTT\n TTTTTTT\n',
'From: kmr4@po.CWRU.edu (Keith M. Ryan)\nSubject: Re: <Political Atheists?\nOrganization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)\nLines: 14\nNNTP-Posting-Host: b64635.student.cwru.edu\n\nIn article <1ql0ajINN2kj@gap.caltech.edu> keith@cco.caltech.edu (Keith Allan Schneider) writes:\n\n>Well, chimps must have some system. They live in social groups\n>as we do, so they must have some "laws" dictating undesired behavior.\n\n\tWhy "must"?\n\n--- \n\n " Whatever promises that have been made can than be broken. "\n\n John Laws, a man without the honor to keep his given word.\n\n\n',
'From: kxgst1+@pitt.edu (Kenneth Gilbert)\nSubject: Re: Intravenous antibiotics\nOrganization: University of Pittsburgh\nLines: 25\n\nIn article <1993Apr19.144358.28376@spectrum.xerox.com> leisner@eso.mc.xerox.com writes:\n:I recently had a case of shingles and my doctors wanted to give me\n:intravenous Acyclovir.\n:\n:It was a pain finding IV sites in my arms...can I have some facts about\n:how advantageous it is to give intravenous antibiotics rather than oral?\n:\n\nI think some essential information must be missing here, i.e., you must be\nsuffering from a condition which has caused immunosuppression. There is\nno indication for IV acyclovir for shingles in an otherwise healthy\nperson. The oral form can help to reduce the length of symptoms, and may\neven help prevent the development of post-herpetic neuralgia, but I\ncertainly would not subject someone to IV therapy without a good reason.\n\nTo address your more general question, IV therapy does provide higher and\nmore consistently high plasma and tissue levels of a drug. For treating a\nserious infection this is the only way to be sure that a patient is\ngetting adequate drug levels.\n\n-- \n=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-|-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=\n= Kenneth Gilbert __|__ University of Pittsburgh =\n= General Internal Medicine | "...dammit, not a programmer!" =\n=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-|-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=\n',
'From: news@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu\nSubject: Package for Fashion Designer?\nNntp-Posting-Host: bottom.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu\nOrganization: The Ohio State University\nLines: 1\n\nThis article was probably generated by a buggy news reader.\n',
"From: mcovingt@aisun3.ai.uga.edu (Michael Covington)\nSubject: Re: food-related seizures?\nNntp-Posting-Host: aisun3.ai.uga.edu\nOrganization: AI Programs, University of Georgia, Athens\nLines: 12\n\nI'm told that corn allergy is fairly common. My wife has it and it seems\nto be exacerbated if sugar is eaten with the corn.\n\nI suppose that in a person just on the verge of having epilepsy, an\nallergic reaction might cause a seizure, but I don't really know.\nGordon?\n\n-- \n:- Michael A. Covington, Associate Research Scientist : *****\n:- Artificial Intelligence Programs mcovingt@ai.uga.edu : *********\n:- The University of Georgia phone 706 542-0358 : * * *\n:- Athens, Georgia 30602-7415 U.S.A. amateur radio N4TMI : ** *** ** <><\n",
'From: pharvey@quack.kfu.com (Paul Harvey)\nSubject: Re: Sabbath Admissions 5of5\nOrganization: The Duck Pond public unix: +1 408 249 9630, log in as \'guest\'.\nLines: 86\n\nIn article <Apr.20.03.02.26.1993.3803@geneva.rutgers.edu> clh writes:\n>Re: Are you Christian or Pauline?\n>Both.\n\nSure, why not? But, are you using Paul to correct the words of Jesus?\n\n>There is no doubt in my mind about what is sin and what is\n>not, at least not in this case. Jesus did not deal explicitly with\n>the question of whether the Law was binding on Gentiles. \n\n"So *anyone* who dissolves even one of the smallest commands and teaches\nothers the same way, will be known as the lowest in the kingdom of the\nskies; whereas *anyone* who keeps the commands and teaches them too, will\nbe known as *someone* great in the kingdom of the skies." Mat5:19 (Gaus)\n\nAre you an "anyone" or are you a "no one?"\n\nWhy not assume, that since Jesus didn\'t say that his words apply only to\nJews, that they apply to all human beings, irregardless of race or sex?\n\nWhy not assume, that even though Jesus did not mention your name, still\nJesus was talking directly to you?\n\n>That\'s why I\n>have to cite evidence such as the way Jesus dealt with the Centurion.\n>As to general Jewish views on this, I am dependent largely on studies\n>of Pauline theology, one by H.J. Schoeps, and one whose author I can\'t\n>come up with at the moment. Both authors are Jews. Also, various\n>Christian and non-Christian Jews have discussed the issue here and in\n>other newsgroups.\n>Mat 5:19 is clear that the Law is still valid. It does not say that\n>it applies to Gentiles.\n\nDoes it say that it applies to *you*? Are you anyone or no one?\n\n>And yes, I say that the specific requirement for worship on the\n>Sabbath in the Ten Commandments is a ceremonial detail, when you\'re\n>looking at the obligations of Gentiles.\n\nEx20:8-11(JPS) Remember the sabbath day and keep it holy. Six days you\nshall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is a sabbath of\nthe LORD your God; you shall not do any work - you, your son or\ndaughter, your male or female slave, or your cattle, or the stranger who\nis within your settlements. For in six days the LORD made heaven and\nearth and sea, and all that is in them, and He rested on the seventh\nday; therefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day and hollowed it.\n\nNote: There is no specific requirement for worship here, however I for\none would not be so bold as to call these verses a "ceremonial detail."\n\n>Similarly circumcision.\n\nDon\'t many Christians still practice circumcision?\n\n>I\'m not sure quite what else I can say on this subject. Again, it\'s\n>unfortunate the Jesus didn\'t answer the question directly.\n\nIt\'s unfortunate that Jesus didn\'t use your name directly, or maybe\nJesus did? Are you somebody or nobody?\n\n>However we\n>do know (1) what the 1st Cent. Jewish approach was, (2) how Jesus\n>dealt with at least one Gentile, and (3) how Jesus\' disciples dealt\n>with the issue when it became more acute (I\'m referring to Acts 15\n>more than Paul). Given that these are all in agreement, I don\'t see\n>that there\'s a big problem.\n\nIf you don\'t see a problem, then perhaps there is none. As Paul closes\nRomans 14 (Gaus):\n\n In short, pursue the ends of peace and of building each other up.\nDon\'t let dietary considerations undo the work of God. Everything may be\nclean, but it\'s evil for the person who eats it in an offensive spirit.\nBetter not to eat the meat or drink the wine or whatever else your\nbrother is offended by. As for the faith that you have, keep that\nbetween yourself and God. The person is in luck who doesn\'t condemn\nhimself for what he samples. On the other hand, the person with doubts\nabout something who eats it anyway is guilty, because he isn\'t acting on\nhis faith, and any failure to act on faith is a sin.\n\n[As far as I know, Christians (except specific Jewish Christian\ngroups, and maybe some of the sabbatarians -- both of which are very\nsmall groups) do not practice circumcision on religious grounds. In\nsome countries it has been done for supposed health reasons, but I\'ve\nnot heard it argued that it is being done because of the Biblical\ncommandment. --clh]\n',
'From: jmunch@hertz.elee.calpoly.edu (John Munch)\nSubject: Re: Yet more Rushdie [Re: ISLAMIC LAW]\nOrganization: California Polytechnic State University, San Luis Obispo\nLines: 11\n\nIn article <1993Apr15.212943.15118@bnr.ca> (Rashid) writes:\n>P.S. I\'m not sure about this but I think the charge of "shatim" also\n>applies to Rushdie and may be encompassed under the umbrella\n>of the "fasad" ruling.\n\nPlease define the words "shatim" and "fasad" before you use them again.\n\n/---- John David Munch ------------------ jmunch@hertz.elee.calpoly.edu ----\\\n|...." the heart can change, be full of hate, or love. If people are allowed|\n|to base their lives through their hearts, anything can happen. A dangerous |\n|situation, in my opinion." -Bobby Mozumder describing problems with atheism|\n',
"From: jodfishe@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (joseph dale fisher)\nSubject: Going permanent no-mail\nOrganization: Indiana University\nLines: 8\n\nWell, it's that time of year again here at IU: graduation.\nUnfortunately, this means that I am out of here, more than likely for\ngood. I cannot say if I'll be in here under another username or not, or\neven if I'll ever get back in here at all. I am leaving this part of my\nministry to another brother, John Right. So, have fun and remember that\nflaming can be considered slander.\n\nJoe Fisher\n",
"From: shellgate!llo@uu4.psi.com (Larry L. Overacker)\nSubject: Re: SSPX schism ?\nOrganization: Shell Oil\nLines: 34\n\nIn article <Apr.13.00.09.07.1993.28452@athos.rutgers.edu> simon@giaeb.cc.monash.edu.au (simon shields) writes:\n>Hi All\n>\n>Hope you all had a Blessed Easter. I have a document which I believe\n>refutes the notion that the SSPX (Society of Saint Pius X) is in\n>schism, or that there has been any legitimate excommunication. If\n>anyone is interested in reading the truth about this matter please\n>email me and I'll send them the document via email. Its 26 pages long,\n>so I wont be posting it on the news group.\n\nI may be interesting to see some brief selections posted to the net.\nMy understanding is that SSPX does not consider ITSELF in schism\nor legitimately excommunicated. But that's really beside the point.\nWhat does the Roman Catholic church say? Excommunication can be\nreal apart from formal excommunication, as provided for in canon law.\n\nAfter all we Orthodox don't cinsider ourselves schismatic or\nexcommunicated. But the Catholic Church considers us dissident.\n\nIf this is inappropriate for this group or beyond the charter,\nI'm sure OFM will let us know.\n\nLarry Overacker (llo@shell.com)\n-- \n-------\nLawrence Overacker\nShell Oil Company, Information Center Houston, TX (713) 245-2965\nllo@shell.com\n\n[I think it's within the charter. Whether this is actually the best\ngroup in which to discuss it is up to the people concerned. I am not\ninterested in having this reinvoke the general Catholic/Protestant\npolemics, but I don't see why it should -- the issue is primarily one\nspecific to Catholics. --clh]\n",
'From: leyfre@McRCIM.McGill.EDU (Frederic Leymarie)\nSubject: Re: Developable Surface\nOrganization: McGill Research Center for Intelligent Machines, Montreal, Canada\nLines: 38\n\n\nIn article <C5x9xs.KHE@hkuxb.hku.hk>, h8902939@hkuxa.hku.hk (Abel) writes:\n|> Hi netters,\n\n|> \tI am currently doing some investigations on "Developable Surface".\n|> Can anyone familiar with this topic give me some information or sources\n|> which can allow me to find some infomation of developable surface?\n|> \tThanks for your help!\n\n|> Abel\n|> h8902939@hkuxa.hku.hk\n\nA developable surface is s.t. you can lay it (or roll it) flat on the\nplane (it may require you to give it a "cut" though...)\n\nE.g., a cylinder, a cone, a plane (of course!) or any surface or patch\nhaving vanishing Gaussian (intrinsic) curvature (i.e., with singular\nHessian, the matrix of 2nd derivatives for an adequate coordinate patch)\nare "developable". In more technical words, a developable surface is\n"locally isometric to a plane" at all points.\n\n\nThink also of the sphere (or the earth) which in a non-developable:\nwhatever way(s) you cut it, you will not be able to lay flat any pieces\nof it... (its intrinsic curvature is nowhere vanishing).\n\nFor more details on this look at any book on differential geometry\nwhich treats surfaces (2D manifolds); e.g., M. do Carmo\'s book:\n\n@Book{Carmo76Differential,\n author = {do Carmo, Manfredo P.},\n title = {Differential Geometry of Curves and Surfaces},\n year = 1976,\n publisher = {Prentice-Hall},\n note = {503 pages.}}\n\nEnjoy!\n-- \nFrederic Leymarie -- leyfre@mcrcim.mcgill.edu\nMcGill University, Electrical Eng. Dept., McRCIM, |\tTel.: (514) 398-8236\n3480 University St., Montreal, QC, CANADA, H3A 2A7. |\tFAX: (514) 398-7348\n',
'From: mangoe@cs.umd.edu (Charley Wingate)\nSubject: Re: Gospel Dating\nLines: 48\n\n>So then, you require the same amount of evidence to believe that I \n>a) own a pair of bluejeans and b) have superhuman powers?\n\nWell, I could use the argument that some here use about "nature" and claim\nthat you cannot have superhuman powers because you are a human; superhuman\npowers are beyond what a human has, and since you are a human, any powers\nyou have are not beyond those of a human. Hence, you cannot have superhuman\npowers. Sound good to you?\n\nAnyway, to the evidence question: it depends on the context. In this group,\nsince you are posting from a american college site, I\'m willing to take it\nas given that you have a pair of blue jeans. And, assuming there is some\ncoherency in your position, I will take it as a given that you do not have\nsuperhuman powers. Arguments are evidence in themselves, in some respects.\n\n>When you say the "existence of [ sic ] Jesus", I assume that you \n>mean just the man, without any special powers, etc.\n\nYep.\n\n>Many will agree that it is very possible that a man called Jesus DID \n>in fact live. In fact, I am willing to agree that there was some man named \n>Jesus. I have no reason to believe that there wasn\'t ever a man.\n\nGood.\n\n>However, most of the claims ARE extradinary: eg virgin birth \n>[ virgin in the sense of not having any sexual intercourse ], resurection, \n>Son of God, etc. THOSE claims require extra evidence.\n\n"Extra" evidence? Why don\'t we start with evidence at all?\n\nI cannot see any evidence for the V. B. which the cynics in this group would\never accept. As for the second, it is the foundation of the religion.\nAnyone who claims to have seen the risen Jesus (back in the 40 day period)\nis a believer, and therefore is discounted by those in this group; since\nthese are all ancients anyway, one again to choose to dismiss the whole\nthing. The third is as much a metaphysical relationship as anything else--\neven those who agree to it have argued at length over what it *means*, so\nagain I don\'t see how evidence is possible.\n\nI thus interpret the "extraordinary claims" claim as a statement that the\nspeaker will not accept *any* evidence on the matter.\n-- \nC. Wingate + "The peace of God, it is no peace,\n + but strife closed in the sod.\nmangoe@cs.umd.edu + Yet, brothers, pray for but one thing:\ntove!mangoe + the marv\'lous peace of God."\n',
'From: keith@cco.caltech.edu (Keith Allan Schneider)\nSubject: Re: <Political Atheists?\nOrganization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena\nLines: 49\nNNTP-Posting-Host: lloyd.caltech.edu\n\nkcochran@nyx.cs.du.edu (Keith "Justified And Ancient" Cochran) writes:\n\n>>Natural morality may specifically be thought of as a code of ethics that\n>>a certain species has developed in order to survive.\n>Wait. Are we talking about ethics or morals here?\n\nIs the distinction important?\n\n>>We see this countless\n>>times in the animal kingdom, and such a "natural" system is the basis for\n>>our own system as well.\n>Huh?\n\nWell, our moral system seems to mimic the natural one, in a number of ways.\n\n>>In order for humans to thrive, we seem to need\n>>to live in groups,\n>Here\'s your problem. "we *SEEM* to need". What\'s wrong with the highlighted\n>word?\n\nI don\'t know. What is wrong? Is it possible for humans to survive for\na long time in the wild? Yes, it\'s possible, but it is difficult. Humans\nare a social animal, and that is a cause of our success.\n\n>>and in order for a group to function effectively, it\n>>needs some sort of ethical code.\n>This statement is not correct.\n\nIsn\'t it? Why don\'t you think so?\n\n>>And, by pointing out that a species\' conduct serves to propogate itself,\n>>I am not trying to give you your tautology, but I am trying to show that\n>>such are examples of moral systems with a goal. Propogation of the species\n>>is a goal of a natural system of morality.\n>So anybody who lives in a monagamous relationship is not moral? After all,\n>in order to ensure propogation of the species, every man should impregnate\n>as many women as possible.\n\nNo. As noted earlier, lack of mating (such as abstinence or homosexuality)\nisn\'t really destructive to the system. It is a worst neutral.\n\n>For that matter, in herds of horses, only the dominate stallion mates. When\n>he dies/is killed/whatever, the new dominate stallion is the only one who\n>mates. These seems to be a case of your "natural system of morality" trying\n>to shoot itself in the figurative foot.\n\nAgain, the mating practices are something to be reexamined...\n\nkeith\n',
'From: wdburns@mtu.edu (BURNS)\nSubject: Interfaith weddings\nOrganization: CCLI Macintosh Lab, Michigan Tech University\nLines: 39\n\nHello everyone.\n\nLast week I posted a similar question to alt.wedding. Now I come in\nsearch of a deeper-level answer.\n\nMy fiance is Lutheran and I am Catholic. We plan on getting married in\nher church because she is living there now and I plan on moving there\nin a month or so. I called my Catholic priest to find out what I needed\nto do in order for the marriage to be recognized by my church.\n\nNeedless to say that I have found that there is no "hard and fast" rule\nwhen it comes to how the Catholic law for interfaith weddings is interpreted.\nBut I\'m pretty sure that we CAN get married without too much problem; the\ntrick lies in the letter of dispensation.\n\nBut that is not why I am here....\n\nWhat I\'d like to know is: \n What are the main differences between the Lutheran and Catholic religions?\n My priest mumbled something about how the Eucharist was understood...\n I have heard that if two religions combine soon, it would be these two.\n\nAny help would be appreciated...\n\nThanks so much!\n\nBill\n-- \n Bill Burns [ Internet: wdburns@mtu.edu ] Mac Network System Administrator\n [ AppleLink: SHADOW ] Apple Student Rep, MTU\nFirst we must band together as friends,\n then mearcilessly crush our enemies into paste.\n\n[We\'ve had enough Catholic/Protestant arguments recently that I\'m not\ngoing to accept any renewals. I suggest responses via email, unless\nthey are clearly non-controversial. I would be happy to see positive\nsummaries of both important Catholic and Lutheran beliefs. Among\nother things, they\'d be useful for the FAQ collection. But I\'m not up\nfor yet another battle. --clh]\n',
"From: 18669@bach.udel.edu (Steven R Hoskins)\nSubject: Some questions from a new Christian\nOrganization: University of Delaware\nLines: 40\n\nHi,\n\nI am new to this newsgroup, and also fairly new to christianity. I was\nraised as a Unitarian and have spent the better part of my life as an\nagnostic, but recently I have developed the firm conviction that the\nChristian message is correct and I have accepted Jesus into my life. I am\nhappy, but I realize I am very ignorant about much of the Bible and\nquite possibly about what Christians should hold as true. This I am trying\nto rectify (by reading the Bible of course), but it would be helpful\nto also read a good interpretation/commentary on the Bible or other\nrelevant aspects of the Christian faith. One of my questions I would\nlike to ask is - Can anyone recommend a good reading list of theological\nworks intended for a lay person?\n\nI have another question I would like to ask. I am not yet affiliated\nwith any one congregation. Aside from matters of taste, what criteria\nshould one use in choosing a church? I don't really know the difference\nbetween the various Protestant denominations.\n\nThanks for reading my post. \n\nSincerely,\n\nSteve Hoskins\n\n[Aside from a commentary, you might also want to consider an\nintroduction. These are books intended for use in undergraduate Bible\ncourses. They give historical background, discussion of literary\nstyles, etc. And generally they have good bibligraphies for further\nreading. I typically recommend Kee, Froehlich and Young's NT\nintroduction. There are also some good one-volume commentaries. They\noften have background articles that are helpful. Probably the best\nrecommendation these days would be Harper's Bible Commentary. (I\nthink there may be a couple of books with this title. This is a\nfairly recent one, like about 1990, done in cooperation with the\nSociety for Biblical Criticism.) If you are committed to inerrancy,\nyou will probably prefer something more conservative. I don't read a\nlot of conservative books, but a commentary I looked at by Donald\nGuthrie looked rather good. He has a NT Introduction, and he's also\neditor of Eerdman's Bible Commentary. --clh]\n",
'From: chorley@vms.ocom.okstate.edu\nSubject: Re: Homeopathy: a respectable medical tradition?\nLines: 43\nNntp-Posting-Host: vms.ocom.okstate.edu\nOrganization: OSU College of Osteopathic Medicine\n\nIn article <C5y5zr.B11@toads.pgh.pa.us>, geb@cs.pitt.edu (Gordon Banks) writes:\n> In article <C5qMJJ.yB@ampex.com> jag@ampex.com (Rayaz Jagani) writes:\n> \n>>\n>>From Miranda Castro, _The Complete Homeopathy Handbook_,\n>>ISBN 0-312-06320-2, oringinally published in Britain in 1990.\n>>\n>>From Page 10,\n>>.. and in 1946, when the National Health Service was established,\n>>homeopathy was included as an officially approved method\n>>of treatment.\n> \n> I was there in 1976. I suppose it must have died out since 1946,\n> then. Certainly I never heard of any homeopaths or herbalists in\n> the employ of the NHS. Perhaps the law codified it but the authorities\n> refused to hire any homeopaths. A similar law in the US allows\n> chiropractors to practice in VA hospitals but I\'ve never seen one\n> there and I don\'t know of a single VA that has hired a chiropractor.\n> There are a lot of Britons on the net, so someone should be able to\n> tell us if the NHS provides homeopaths for you.\n> \n> \n> -- \n> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------\n\nI don\'t think they provide homeopaths, heck the heir apparent was trying to \npromote Osteopaths to the ranks of eligibility a couple of years back... It \npleased my family no end, since I\'m at an Osteopathic school, sort of \nvalidated it for them...then I told them that the name was the same but the \npractice was different....oh.\n\tIf you\'re seeking validation for your philosophy on the strength of \nthe national health service adopting it, I suggest that you are not very \nsure of the validity of your philosophy. I believe in 1946, the NHS was \nstill having its nurses taught the fine art of "cupping", which is the \nvacuum extraction of intradermal fluids by means of heating a cup, placing \nit on the afflicted site and allowing it to cool.\n\tI wouldn\'t take my sick daughter to a homeopath.\n\n\nDavid N. Chorley\n***************************************************************************\nYikes, I\'m agreeing with Gordon Banks\n**************************************************************************\n',
"From: ata@hfsi.hfsi.com ( John Ata)\nSubject: Re: -= Hell =-\nReply-To: <news@opl.com>\nOrganization: HFSI\nLines: 19\n\nIn article <Apr.12.03.44.24.1993.18836@athos.rutgers.edu> dmn@kepler.unh.edu (There's a seeker born every minute.) writes:\n\n> That would depend on what Heaven is like. If God is a King, and \n>an eternity in heaven consists of giving thanks and praise to the King,\n>I might opt for Hell. I read a lovely account of a missionary trying to\n\nBut then, on the other hand, if you really loved that King more\nthan you did yourself, and He loved you to the point of assuring\nyou that the eternal time spent with him would be eternal ecstasy,\nwould you really opt for that choice?\n\n> Dana\n\n\n-- \nJohn G. Ata - Technical Consultant | Internet: ata@hfsi.com\nHFS, Inc.\t\t VA20 | UUCP: uunet!hfsi!ata\n7900 Westpark Drive\t MS:601\t | Voice:\t(703) 827-6810\nMcLean, VA 22102\t | FAX:\t(703) 827-3729\n",
"From: norris@athena.mit.edu (Richard A Chonak)\nSubject: Re: tuff to be a Christian?\nReply-To: norris@mit.edu\nOrganization: l'organisation, c'est moi\nLines: 15\n\nIn article <Apr.17.01.10.58.1993.2246@geneva.rutgers.edu>, mdbs@ms.uky.edu (no name) writes:\n|>\n|> \tParting Question:\n|> \t\tWould you have become a Christian if you had not\n|> been indoctrinated by your parents? You probably never learned about\n|> any other religion to make a comparative study. And therefore I claim\n|> you are brain washed.\n\nYou write as if no-one ever became a Christian except people from\nChristian families. This is not true, as quite a few people on this\ngroup can attest (including me). \n\n-- \nRichard Aquinas Chonak, norris@mit.edu, Usenet addict, INTP\nSeeking job change: sys-mgr: VAX, SIS, COBOL, DTR; progr: UNIX, C/++, X\n",
'From: vbv@r2d2.eeap.cwru.edu (Virgilio (Dean) B. Velasco Jr.)\nSubject: Re: The arrogance of Christians\nOrganization: Case Western Reserve Univ. Cleveland, Ohio (USA)\nLines: 72\n\nIn article <Apr.13.00.08.35.1993.28412@athos.rutgers.edu> caralv@caralv.auto-trol.com (Carol Alvin) writes:\n>vbv@r2d2.eeap.cwru.edu (Virgilio (Dean) B. Velasco Jr.) writes:\n>>In article <Apr.10.05.32.29.1993.14388@athos.rutgers.edu> caralv@caralv.auto-trol.com (Carol Alvin) writes:\n>> > ...\n>> >\n>> >Are all truths also absolutes?\n>> >Is all of scripture truths (and therefore absolutes)?\n>> >\n>> >If the answer to either of these questions is no, then perhaps you can \n>> >explain to me how you determine which parts of Scripture are truths, and\n>> >which truths are absolutes. \n>> \n>> The answer to both questions is yes.\n>\n>Perhaps we have different definitions of absolute then. To me,\n>an absolute is something that is constant across time, culture,\n>situations, etc. True in every instance possible. Do you agree\n>with this definition? I think you do:\n>\n>> Similarly, all truth is absolute. Indeed, a non-absolute truth is a \n>> contradiction in terms. When is something absolute? When it is always\n>> true. Obviously, if a "truth" is not always "true" then we have a\n>> contradiction in terms. \n\nYes, I do agree with your definition. My use of the term "always" is\nrather deceptive, I admit. \n \n>A simple example:\n>\n>In the New Testament (sorry I don\'t have a Bible at work, and can\'t\n>provide a reference), women are instructed to be silent and cover\n>their heads in church. Now, this is scripture. By your definition, \n>this is truth and therefore absolute. \n\nHold it. I said that all of scripture is true. However, discerning\nexactly what Jesus, Paul and company were trying to say is not always so\neasy. I don\'t believe that Paul was trying to say that all women should\nbehave that way. Rather, he was trying to say that under the circumstances\nat the time, the women he was speaking to would best avoid volubility and\ncover their heads. This has to do with maintaining a proper witness toward\nothers. Remember that any number of relativistic statements can be derived\nfrom absolutes. For instance, it is absolutely right for Christians to\nstrive for peace. However, this does not rule out trying to maintain world\npeace by resorting to violence on occasion. (Yes, my opinion.)\n \n>Evangelicals are clearly not taking this particular part of scripture \n>to be absolute truth. (And there are plenty of other examples.)\n>Can you reconcile this?\n\nSure. The Bible preaches absolute truths. However, exactly what those\ntruths are is sometimes a matter of confusion. As I said, the Bible does\npreach absolute truths. Sometimes those fundamental principles are crystal\nclear (at least to evangelicals). Sometimes they are not so clear to\neveryone (e.g. should baptism be by full immersion or not, etc). That is\nlargely because sometimes, it is not explicitly spelled out whether the writers\nare speaking to a particular culture or to Christianity as a whole. This is \nwhere scholarship and the study of Biblical contexts comes in. \n \n>It\'s very difficult to see how you can claim something which is based \n>on your own *interpretation* is absolute. \n\nGod revealed his Truths to the world, through His Word. It is utterly \nunavoidable, however, that some people whill come up with alternate \ninterpretations. Practically anything can be misinterpreted, especially\nwhen it comes to matters of right and wrong. Care to deny that?\n\n\n-- \nVirgilio "Dean" Velasco Jr, Department of Electrical Eng\'g and Applied Physics \n\t CWRU graduate student, roboticist-in-training and Q wannabee\n "Bullwinkle, that man\'s intimidating a referee!" | My boss is a \n "Not very well. He doesn\'t look like one at all!" | Jewish carpenter.\n',
"From: osprey@ux4.cso.uiuc.edu (Lucas Adamski)\nSubject: Re: Fast polygon routine needed\nKeywords: polygon, needed\nOrganization: University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign\nLines: 11\n\nIn article <1993Apr17.192947.11230@sophia.smith.edu> orourke@sophia.smith.edu (Joseph O'Rourke) writes:\n>In article <C5n3x0.B5L@news.cso.uiuc.edu> osprey@ux4.cso.uiuc.edu (Lucas Adamski) writes:\n>>This may be a fairly routine request on here, but I'm looking for a fast\n>>polygon routine to be used in a 3D game.\n>\n>\tA fast polygon routine to do WHAT?\n\nTo draw polygons of course. Its a VGA mode 13h (320x200) game, done in C and\nASM. I need a faster way to draw concave polygons that the method I have right\nnow, which is very slow.\n\t //Lucas.\n",
'From: madhaus@netcom.com (Maddi Hausmann)\nSubject: Re: some thoughts.\nKeywords: Dan Bissell\nOrganization: Society for Putting Things on Top of Other Things\nLines: 28\n\n1. Did you read the FAQs?\n\n2. If NO, Read the FAQs.\n\n3. IF YES, you wouldn\'t have posted such drivel. The "Lord, Liar\n or Lunatic" argument is a false trilemma. Even if you disprove\n Liar and Lunatic (which you haven\'t), you have not eliminated\n the other possibilities, such as Mistaken, Misdirected, or\n Misunderstood. You have arbitrarily set up three and only\n three possibilities without considering others.\n\n4. Read a good book on rhetoric and critical thinking. If\n you think the "Lord, Liar, or Lunatic" discussion is an\n example of a good argument, you are in need of learning.\n\n5. Read the FAQs again, especially "Constructing a Logical\n Argument."\n\nIgnore these instructions at your peril. Disobeying them\nleaves you open for righteous flaming.\n\n\n-- \nMaddi Hausmann madhaus@netcom.com\nCentigram Communications Corp San Jose California 408/428-3553\n\nKids, please don\'t try this at home. Remember, I post professionally.\n\n',
'From: sandvik@newton.apple.com (Kent Sandvik)\nSubject: Re: Genocide is Caused by Atheism\nOrganization: Cookamunga Tourist Bureau\nLines: 26\n\nIn article <1993Apr19.113255.27550@monu6.cc.monash.edu.au>,\ndarice@yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au (Fred Rice) wrote:\n> >Fred, the problem with such reasoning is that for us non-believers\n> >we need a better measurement tool to state that person A is a\n> >real Muslim/Christian, while person B is not. As I know there are\n> >no such tools, and anyone could believe in a religion, misuse its\n> >power and otherwise make bad PR. It clearly shows the sore points\n> >with religion -- in other words show me a movement that can\'t spin\n> >off Khomeinis, Stalins, Davidians, Husseins... *).\n> \n> I don\'t think such a system exists. I think the reason for that is an\n> condition known as "free will". We humans have got it. Anybody, using\n> their free-will, can tell lies and half-truths about *any* system and\n> thus abuse it for their own ends.\n\nI don\'t think such tools exist either. In addition, there\'s no such\nthing as objective information. All together, it looks like religion\nand any doctrines could be freely misused to whatever purpose.\n\nThis all reminds me of Descartes\' whispering deamon. You can\'t trust\nanything. So why bother.\n\nCheers,\nKent\n---\nsandvik@newton.apple.com. ALink: KSAND -- Private activities on the net.\n',
'From: uabdpo.dpo.uab.edu!gila005 (Steve Holland)\nSubject: Re: Crohn\'s Disease\nOrganization: UAB - Gastroenterology\nLines: 32\n\nIn article <1993Apr14.174824.12295@westminster.ac.uk>, kxaec@sun.pcl.ac.uk\n(David Watters) wrote:\n> \n> Dear all,\n> \n> I am a Crohn\'s Disease sufferer and I\'m interested if anyone knows of any current research that is going on into the subject. I\'ve done some investigation myself so you don\'t need to spare me any details. I\'ve had the fistulas, the ileostomy, etc..\n> \n> Is a "cure" on the horizon ?\n> \n> I am not in the medical profession so if you do reply I would appreciate plain speak.\n> \n> I\'d prefer to be mailed direct as I don\'t always get a chance to read the news.\n> \n> Thank you in advance.\n> \n> Dave.\nThe best group to keep you informed is the Crohn\'s and Colitis Foundation\nof America. I do not know if the UK has a similar organization. The\naddress of\nthe CCFA is \n\nCCFA\n444 Park Avenue South\n11th Floor\nNew York, NY 10016-7374\nUSA\n\nThey have a lot of information available and have a number of newsletters.\n \nGood Luck.\n\nSteve\n',
'From: fox@graphics.cs.nyu.edu (David Fox)\nSubject: Re: Pantheism & Environmentalism\nOrganization: Courant Institute of Mathematical Sciences\nLines: 17\n\nIn article <Apr.13.00.08.04.1993.28376@athos.rutgers.edu> mcovingt@aisun3.ai.uga.edu (Michael Covington) writes:\n\n In article <Apr.12.03.44.17.1993.18833@athos.rutgers.edu> heath@athena.cs.uga.edu (Terrance Heath) writes:\n\n >\tI realize I\'m entering this discussion rather late, but I do\n >have one question. Wasn\'t it a Reagan appointee, James Watt, a\n >pentacostal christian (I think) who was the secretary of the interior\n >who saw no problem with deforestation since we were "living in the\n >last days" and ours would be the last generation to see the redwoods\n >anyway?\n\n I heard the same thing, but without confirmation that he actually said it.\n It was just as alarming to us as to you; the Bible says that nobody knows\n when the second coming will take place.\n\nNor does it say that if you *do* find out when it will happen you\nshould rape everything in sight just before.\n',
'From: king@reasoning.com (Dick King)\nSubject: Re: Selective Placebo\nOrganization: Reasoning Systems, Inc., Palo Alto, CA\nLines: 20\nNntp-Posting-Host: drums.reasoning.com\n\nIn article <1993Apr17.125545.22457@rose.com> ron.roth@rose.com (ron roth) writes:\n>\n> OTOH, who are we kidding, the New England Medical Journal in 1984\n> ran the heading: "Ninety Percent of Diseases are not Treatable by\n> Drugs or Surgery," which has been echoed by several other reports.\n> No wonder MDs are not amused with alternative medicine, since\n> the 20% magic of the "placebo effect" would award alternative \n> practitioners twice the success rate of conventional medicine...\n\n1: "90% of diseases" is not the same thing as "90% of patients".\n\n In a world with one curable disease that strikes 100 people, and nine\n incurable diseases which strikes one person each, medical science will cure\n 91% of the patients and report that 90% of diseases have no therapy.\n\n2: A disease would be counted among the 90% untreatable if nothing better than\n a placebo were known. Of course MDs are ethically bound to not knowingly\n dispense placebos...\n\n-dk\n',
'From: revc@garg.campbell.ca.us (Bob Van Cleef)\nSubject: Re: SSPX schism ?\nOrganization: The Land of Garg\nLines: 48\n\n>From: jhpb@sarto.budd-lake.nj.us (Joseph H. Buehler)\n\n\n>Many Catholics will decide to side with the Pope. There is some\n>soundness in this, because the Papacy is infallible, so eventually\n>some Pope *will* straighten all this out. But, on the other hand,\n>there is also unsoundness in this, in that, in the short term, the\n>Popes may indeed be wrong, and such Catholics are doing nothing to\n>help the situation by obeying them where they\'re wrong. In fact, if\n>the situation is grave enough, they sin in obeying him. At the very\n>least, they\'re wasting a great opportunity, because they are failing\n>to love Christ in a heroic way at the very time that He needs this\n>badly.\n\nJoe;\n\nYour logic excapes me. \n\nIf the Papacy is infallible, and this is a matter of faith, then the \nPope cannot "be wrong!" If, on the other hand, this is not a matter \nof faith, but a matter of Church law, then we should still obey as the\nPope is the legal head of the church.\n\nIn other words, given the doctrine of infallibility, we have no choice\nbut to obey.\n\nBob\n\n-- \n><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> \\|/ <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <><\nBob Van Cleef Peace -0- be revc@garg.Campbell.CA.US\nThe Land of Garg BBS unto /|\\ you BBS (408) 378-5108\n><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> | <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <><\n\n\n[You might want to look at the FAQ on infallibility. The doctrine on\ninfallibility does not say that the pope is always right. All\nCatholic theologians acknowledge that there have been a number of\noccasions when the pope was wrong. There appear to be two aspects to\ninfallibility. One is a general concept that in the long run the\nChurch is protected from serious error. However this does not mean\nthat it\'s impossible for it to take wrong turns at one time or\nanother. The more specific concept of papal infallibility is that in\nvery specific circumstances a papal statement can be known to be\ninfallible. However a relatively small fraction of statements meet\nthose criteria. This does not absolve Catholics from the duty to obey\neven "ordinary" teachings of the pope. However only a few teachings\nare made in a way that is explicitly infallible. --clh]\n',
'From: I3150101@dbstu1.rz.tu-bs.de (Benedikt Rosenau)\nSubject: Re: Gospel Dating\nOrganization: Technical University Braunschweig, Germany\nLines: 93\n\nIn article <65974@mimsy.umd.edu>\nmangoe@cs.umd.edu (Charley Wingate) writes:\n \n>>Well, John has a quite different, not necessarily more elaborated theology.\n>>There is some evidence that he must have known Luke, and that the content\n>>of Q was known to him, but not in a \'canonized\' form.\n>\n>This is a new argument to me. Could you elaborate a little?\n>\n \nThe argument goes as follows: Q-oid quotes appear in John, but not in\nthe almost codified way they were in Matthew or Luke. However, they are\nconsidered to be similar enough to point to knowledge of Q as such, and\nnot an entirely different source.\n \n \n>>Assuming that he knew Luke would obviously put him after Luke, and would\n>>give evidence for the latter assumption.\n>\n>I don\'t think this follows. If you take the most traditional attributions,\n>then Luke might have known John, but John is an elder figure in either case.\n>We\'re talking spans of time here which are well within the range of\n>lifetimes.\n \nWe are talking date of texts here, not the age of the authors. The usual\nexplanation for the time order of Mark, Matthew and Luke does not consider\ntheir respective ages. It says Matthew has read the text of Mark, and Luke\nthat of Matthew (and probably that of Mark).\n \nAs it is assumed that John knew the content of Luke\'s text. The evidence\nfor that is not overwhelming, admittedly.\n \n \n>>>(1) Earlier manuscripts of John have been discovered.\n>\n>>Interesting, where and which? How are they dated? How old are they?\n>\n>Unfortunately, I haven\'t got the info at hand. It was (I think) in the late\n>\'70s or early \'80s, and it was possibly as old as CE 200.\n>\n \nWhen they are from about 200, why do they shed doubt on the order on\nputting John after the rest of the three?\n \n \n>>I don\'t see your point, it is exactly what James Felder said. They had no\n>>first hand knowledge of the events, and it obvious that at least two of them\n>>used older texts as the base of their account. And even the association of\n>>Luke to Paul or Mark to Peter are not generally accepted.\n>\n>Well, a genuine letter of Peter would be close enough, wouldn\'t it?\n>\n \nSure, an original together with Id card of sender and receiver would be\nfine. So what\'s that supposed to say? Am I missing something?\n \n \n>And I don\'t think a "one step removed" source is that bad. If Luke and Mark\n>and Matthew learned their stories directly from diciples, then I really\n>cannot believe in the sort of "big transformation from Jesus to gospel" that\n>some people posit. In news reports, one generally gets no better\n>information than this.\n>\n>And if John IS a diciple, then there\'s nothing more to be said.\n>\n \nThat John was a disciple is not generally accepted. The style and language\ntogether with the theology are usually used as counterargument.\n \nThe argument that John was a disciple relies on the claim in the gospel\nof John itself. Is there any other evidence for it?\n \nOne step and one generation removed is bad even in our times. Compare that\nto reports of similar events in our century in almost illiterate societies.\nNot even to speak off that believers are not necessarily the best sources.\n \n \n>>It is also obvious that Mark has been edited. How old are the oldest\n>>manuscripts? To my knowledge (which can be antiquated) the oldest is\n>>quite after any of these estimates, and it is not even complete.\n>\n>The only clear "editing" is problem of the ending, and it\'s basically a\n>hopeless mess. The oldest versions give a strong sense of incompleteness,\n>to the point where the shortest versions seem to break off in midsentence.\n>The most obvious solution is that at some point part of the text was lost.\n>The material from verse 9 on is pretty clearly later and seems to represent\n>a synopsys of the end of Luke.\n>\nIn other words, one does not know what the original of Mark did look like\nand arguments based on Mark are pretty weak.\n \nBut how is that connected to a redating of John?\n Benedikt\n',
"From: reedr@cgsvax.claremont.edu\nSubject: Q the Lost Gospel\nOrganization: The Claremont Graduate School\nLines: 5\n\nJust finished reading Burton Mack's new book, _The Lost Gospel, Q and Christian\nOrigins_. I thought it was totally cool. Anyone else read it and want to \ntalk?\n\nRandy\n",
'From: rsilver@world.std.com (Richard Silver)\nSubject: Barbecued foods and health risk\nOrganization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA\nLines: 10\n\n\nSome recent postings remind me that I had read about risks \nassociated with the barbecuing of foods, namely that carcinogens \nare generated. Is this a valid concern? If so, is it a function \nof the smoke or the elevated temperatures? Is it a function of \nthe cooking elements, wood or charcoal vs. lava rocks? I wish \nto know more. Thanks. \n\n\n \n',
'From: Steve.Hayes@f22.n7101.z5.fidonet.org\nSubject: Pantheism & Environmentalism\nLines: 51\n\n09 Apr 93, Susan Harwood Kaczmarczik writes to All:\n\n >> "We suspect that\'s because one party to the (environmental)\n >> dispute thinks the Earth is sanctified. It\'s clear that much\n >> of the environmentalist energy is derived from what has been\n >> called the Religious Left, a SECULAR, or even PAGAN fanaticism\n >> that now WORSHIPS such GODS as nature and gender with a\n >> reverence formerly accorded real religions." (EMPHASIS MINE).\n\n SHK> First of all, secular and pagan are not synonyms. Pagan, which is\n SHK> derived from the latin paganus, means "of the country." It is, in\n SHK> fact, a cognate with the Italian paisano, which means peasant.\n SHK> Paganism, among other things, includes a reverence for the planet and\n SHK> all life on the planet -- stemming from the belief that all life is\n SHK> interconnected. So, rather than be something secular, it is something\n SHK> very sacred.\n\nI would go further, and say that much of the damage to the environment\nhas been caused by the secular worldview, or by the humanist\nworldview, and especially by the secular humanist worldview.\n\nThis is not to say that ALL secular humanists are necessarily avid\ndestroyers of the environment, and I am sure that there are many who\nare concerned about the environment. But at the time of the\nRenaissance and Ref ormation in Western Europe man became the centre,\nor the focus of culture (hence "humanism"). This consciousness was\nalso secular, in the sense that it was concerned primarily with the\npresent age, r ather than the age to come. Capitalism arose at the\nsame time, and the power of economics became central in philosophy.\nThis doesn\'t mean that economics did not exist before, simply that it\nbegan to dominate the conscious cultural values of Western European\nsociety and its offshoots. This cultural shift was, in its later\nstages, accompanied by industrial revolutions and the values that\njustified\n them.\n\nThere was a fundamental cultural shift in the meaning of "economics" -\nfrom the Christian view of man as the economos, the steward, of\ncreation to the secular idea of man as the slave of economic forces\nand powers. There were denominational differences among the new\nworshippers of Mammon. For some the name of the deity was "the free\nrein of the market mechanism", while for others it was "the\ndialectical forces of history". But in both the capitalist West and\nthe socialist East the environment was sacrificed on the altar of\nMammon. The situation was mitigated in the West because thos e who\nwere concerned about the damage to the environment had more freedom to\noppose what was happening and state their case.\n\nSteve\n\n--- GoldED 2.40\n',
"From: bobbe@vice.ICO.TEK.COM (Robert Beauchaine)\nSubject: Re: Yet more Rushdie [Re: ISLAMIC LAW]\nOrganization: Tektronix Inc., Beaverton, Or.\nLines: 25\n\nIn article <115565@bu.edu> jaeger@buphy.bu.edu (Gregg Jaeger) writes:\n>In article <1qi3l5$jkj@fido.asd.sgi.com> livesey@solntze.wpd.sgi.com (Jon Livesey) writes:\n>\n>>I hope an Islamic Bank is something other than BCCI, which\n>>ripped off so many small depositors among the Muslim\n>>community in the Uk and elsewhere.\n>\n>Grow up, childish propagandist.\n>\n\n Gosh, Gregg. I'm pretty good a reading between the lines, but\n you've given me precious little to work with in this refutation.\n Could you maybe flesh it out just a bit? Or did I miss the full\n grandeur of it's content by virtue of my blinding atheism?\n\n\n\n/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\ \n\nBob Beauchaine bobbe@vice.ICO.TEK.COM \n\nThey said that Queens could stay, they blew the Bronx away,\nand sank Manhattan out at sea.\n\n^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^\n",
'Organization: Penn State University\nFrom: Andrew Newell <TAN102@psuvm.psu.edu>\nSubject: Re: free moral agency\nDistribution: na\n <C5pxqs.LM5@darkside.osrhe.uoknor.edu>\nLines: 119\n\nIn article <C5pxqs.LM5@darkside.osrhe.uoknor.edu>, bil@okcforum.osrhe.edu (Bill\nConner) says:\n>\n>dean.kaflowitz (decay@cbnewsj.cb.att.com) wrote:\n>\n>: Now, what I am interested in is the original notion you were discussing\n>: on moral free agency. That is, how can a god punish a person for\n>: not believing in him when that person is only following his or her\n>: nature and it is not possible for that person to deny what his or\n>: her reason tells him or her, which is that there is no god?\n>\n>I think you\'re letting atheist mythology confuse you on the issue of\n\n(WEBSTER: myth: "a traditional or legendary story...\n ...a belief...whose truth is accepted uncritically.")\n\nHow does that qualify?\nIndeed, it\'s almost oxymoronic...a rather amusing instance.\nI\'ve found that most atheists hold almost no atheist-views as\n"accepted uncritically," especially the few that are legend.\nMany are trying to explain basic truths, as myths do, but\nthey don\'t meet the other criterions.\nAlso...\n\n>Divine justice. According to the most fundamental doctrines of\n>Christianity, When the first man sinned, he was at that time the\n\nYou accuse him of referencing mythology, then you procede to\nlaunch your own xtian mythology. (This time meeting all the\nrequirements of myth.)\n\n>salvation. The idea of punishment is based on the proposition that\n>everyone knows (instinctively?) that God exists, is their creator and\n\nAh, but not everyone "knows" that god exists. So you have\na fallacy.\n\n>There\'s nothing terribly difficult in all this and is well known to\n>any reasonably Biblically literate Christian. The only controversy is\n\nAnd that makes it true? Holding with the Bible rules out controversy?\nRead the FAQ. If you\'ve read it, you missed something, so re-read.\n(Not a bad suggestion for anyone...I re-read it just before this.)\n\n>with those who pretend not to know what is being said and what it\n>means. When atheists claim that they do -not- know if God exists and\n>don\'t know what He wants, they contradict the Bible which clearly says\n>that -everyone- knows. The authority of the Bible is its claim to be\n\n...should I repeat what I wrote above for the sake of getting\nit across? You may trust the Bible, but your trusting it doesn\'t\nmake it any more credible to me.\n\nIf the Bible says that everyone knows, that\'s clearly reason\nto doubt the Bible, because not everyone "knows" your alleged\ngod\'s alleged existance.\n\n>refuted while the species-wide condemnation is justified. Those that\n>claim that there is no evidence for the existence of God or that His will is\n>unknown, must deliberately ignore the Bible; the ignorance itself is\n>no excuse.\n\n1) No, they don\'t have to ignore the Bible. The Bible is far\nfrom universally accepted. The Bible is NOT a proof of god;\nit is only a proof that some people have thought that there\nwas a god. (Or does it prove even that? They might have been\nwriting it as series of fiction short-stories. As in the\ncase of Dionetics.) Assuming the writers believed it, the\nonly thing it could possibly prove is that they believed it.\nAnd that\'s ignoring the problem of whether or not all the\ninterpretations and Biblical-philosophers were correct.\n\n2) There are people who have truly never heard of the Bible.\n\n3) Again, read the FAQ.\n\n>freedom. You are free to ignore God in the same way you are free to\n>ignore gravity and the consequences are inevitable and well known\n>in both cases. That an atheist can\'t accept the evidence means only\n\nBzzt...wrong answer!\nGravity is directly THERE. It doesn\'t stop exerting a direct and\nrationally undeniable influence if you ignore it. God, on the\nother hand, doesn\'t generally show up in the supermarket, except\non the tabloids. God doesn\'t exert a rationally undeniable influence.\nGravity is obvious; gods aren\'t.\n\n>Secondly, human reason is very comforatble with the concept of God, so\n>much so that it is, in itself, intrinsic to our nature. Human reason\n>always comes back to the question of God, in every generation and in\n\nNo, human reason hasn\'t always come back to the existance of\n"God"; it has usually come back to the existance of "god".\nIn other words, it doesn\'t generally come back to the xtian\ngod, it comes back to whether there is any god. And, in much\nof oriental philosophic history, it generally doesn\'t pop up as\nthe idea of a god so much as the question of what natural forces\nare and which ones are out there. From a world-wide view,\nhuman nature just makes us wonder how the universe came to\nbe and/or what force(s) are currently in control. A natural\ntendancy to believe in "God" only exists in religious wishful\nthinking.\n\n>I said all this to make the point that Christianity is eminently\n>reasonable, that Divine justice is just and human nature is much\n>different than what atheists think it is. Whether you agree or not\n\nXtianity is no more reasonable than most other religions, and\nit\'s reasonableness certainly doesn\'t merit eminence.\nDivine justice...well, it only seems just to those who already\nbelieve in the divinity.\nFirst, not all atheists believe the same things about human\nnature. Second, whether most atheists are correct or not,\nYOU certainly are not correct on human nature. You are, at\nthe least, basing your views on a completely eurocentric\napproach. Try looking at the outside world as well when\nyou attempt to sum up all of humanity.\n\nAndrew\n',
'From: ldo@waikato.ac.nz (Lawrence D\'Oliveiro, Waikato University)\nSubject: Re: Rumours about 3DO ???\nOrganization: University of Waikato, Hamilton, New Zealand\nLines: 52\n\nIn article <1993Apr16.212441.34125@rchland.ibm.com>, ricardo@rchland.vnet.ibm.com (Ricardo Hernandez Muchado) writes:\n> In article <1993Apr15.164940.11632@mercury.unt.edu>, Sean McMains <mcmains@unt.edu> writes:\n>\n> |>\n> |> Ricardo, the animation playback to which Lawrence was referring in an\n> |> earlier post is plain old Quicktime 1.5 with the Compact Video codec.\n> |> I\'ve seen digitized video (some of Apple\'s early commercials, to be\n> |> precise) running on a Centris 650 at about 30fps very nicely (16-bit\n> |> color depth). I would expect that using the same algorithm, a RISC\n> |> processor should be able to approach full-screen full-motion animation,\n> |> though as you\'ve implied, the processor will be taxed more with highly\n> |> dynamic material.\n>\n>\n> Sean, I don\'t want to get into a \'mini-war\' by what I am going to say,\n> but I have to be a little bit skeptic about the performance you are\n> claiming on the Centris, you\'ll see why (please, no-flames, I reserve\n> those for c.s.m.a :-) )\n>\n> I was in Chicago in the last consumer electronics show, and Apple had a\n> booth there. I walked by, and they were showing real-time video capture\n> using a (Radious or SuperMac?) card to digitize and make right on the spot\n> quicktime movies. I think the quicktime they were using was the old one\n> (1.5).\n\nThat is in fact the current version (it only came out in December).\n\n> They digitized a guy talking there in 160x2xx something. It played back quite\n> nicely and in real time. The guy then expanded the window (resized) to 25x by\n> 3xx (320 in y I think) and the frame rate decreased enough to notice that it\n> wasn\'t 30fps (or about 30fps) anymore. It dropped to like 15 fps. Then he\n> increased it just a bit more, and it dropped to 10<->12 fps.\n>\n> Then I asked him what Mac he was using... He was using a Quadra (don\'t know\n> what model, 900?) to do it, and he was telling the guys there that the Quicktime\n> could play back at the same speed even on an LCII.\n>\n> Well, I spoiled his claim so to say, since a 68040 Quadra Mac was having\n> a little bit of trouble. And this wasn\'t even from the hardisk! This was\n> from memory!\n\nMy test movie was created at 320*240 resolution, it wasn\'t being scaled up.\nScaling was a very CPU-intensive operation with the original QuickTime (1.0);\nthe current version has optimizations for ratios like 4:1 (160*120 -> 320*240),\nbut even so, I\'m prepared to believe that the performance isn\'t as good as\nwith playing back an actual 320*240 movie. I haven\'t done any numerical\nmeasurements for scaled playback.\n\nLawrence D\'Oliveiro fone: +64-7-856-2889\nComputer Services Dept fax: +64-7-838-4066\nUniversity of Waikato electric mail: ldo@waikato.ac.nz\nHamilton, New Zealand 37^ 47\' 26" S, 175^ 19\' 7" E, GMT+12:00\n',
"From: jkjec@westminster.ac.uk (Shazad Barlas)\nSubject: NEED HELP ON SCARING PLEASE\nOrganization: University of Westminster\nDistribution: sci.med\nLines: 18\n\nHi...\n\nI need information on scaring. Particularly as a result of grazing the skin\nI really wanted to know of \n\n\t1. would a scar occur as a result of grazing\n\t2. if yes, then would it disappear?\n\t3. how long does a graze take to heal?\n\t4. will hair grow on it once it has healed?\n\t5. what is 'scar tissue'?\n\t6. should antiseptic cream be applied to it regularly?\n\t7. is it better to keep it exposed and let fresh air at it?\n\nPlease help - any info - no matter how small will be appreciated greatly. \n\nBUT PLEASE E-MAIL ME DIRECTLY because I dont read this newsgroup often (this\nis my first time). \n \t\t\t\t\t\t....Shaz....\n",
'From: keith@cco.caltech.edu (Keith Allan Schneider)\nSubject: Re: <Political Atheists?\nOrganization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena\nLines: 8\nNNTP-Posting-Host: punisher.caltech.edu\n\nmathew <mathew@mantis.co.uk> writes:\n\n>As for rape, surely there the burden of guilt is solely on the rapist?\n\nNot so. If you are thrown into a cage with a tiger and get mauled, do you\nblame the tiger?\n\nkeith\n',
"From: RICK@ysub.ysu.edu (Rick Marsico)\nSubject: Proventil Inhaler\nOrganization: Youngstown State University\nLines: 5\nNNTP-Posting-Host: ysub.ysu.edu\n\nDoes the Proventil inhaler for asthma relief fall into the steroid\nor nonsteroid category? Looking at the product literature it's\nnot clear.\n \nrick@ysu.edu\n",
'From: mmm@cup.portal.com (Mark Robert Thorson)\nSubject: Eumemics (was: Eugenics)\nArticle-I.D.: cup.79700\nOrganization: The Portal System (TM)\nLines: 36\n\n> Probably within 50 years, a new type of eugenics will be possible.\n> Maybe even sooner. We are now mapping the human genome. We will\n> then start to work on manipulation of that genome. Using genetic\n> engineering, we will be able to insert whatever genes we want.\n> No breeding, no "hybrids", etc. The ethical question is, should\n> we do this? Should we make a race of disease-free, long-lived,\n> Arnold Schwartzenegger-muscled, supermen? Even if we can.\n\nProbably within 50 years, it will be possible to disassemble and\nre-assemble our bodies at the molecular level. Not only will flawless\ncosmetic surgery be possible, but flawless cosmetic PSYCHOSURGERY.\n\nWhat will it be like to store all the prices of shelf-priced bar-coded\ngoods in your head, and catch all the errors they make in the store\'s\nfavor at SAFEWAY? What will it be like to mentally edit and spell-\ncheck your responses to the questions posed by a phone caller selling\nVACATION TIME-SHARE OPTIONS?\n\nIndeed, we are today a nation at risk! The threat is not from bad genes,\nbut bad memes! Memes are the basic units of culture, as opposed to genes\nwhich are the units of genetics.\n\nWe stand on the brink of new meme-amplification technologies! Harmful\nmemes which formerly were restricted in their destructive power will\nrun rampant over the countryside, laying waste to the real benefits that\nfuture technology has to offer.\n\nFor example, Jeremy Rifkin has been busy trying to whip up emotions\nagainst the new genetically engineered tomatoes under development at\nCALGENE. This guy is inventing harmful memes, a virtual memetic Typhoid\nMary.\n\nWe must expand the public-health laws to include quarantine of people\nwith harmful memes. They should not be allowed to infect other people\nwith their memes against genetically-engineered food, electromagnetic\nfields, and the Space Shuttle solid rocket boosters.\n',
"From: sandvik@newton.apple.com (Kent Sandvik)\nSubject: Re: Objective Values 'v' Scientific Accuracy (was Re: After 2000 years, can we say that Christian Morality is)\nOrganization: Cookamunga Tourist Bureau\nLines: 17\n\nIn article <930419.122738.5s2.rusnews.w165w@mantis.co.uk>, mathew\n<mathew@mantis.co.uk> wrote:\n> \n> lpzsml@unicorn.nott.ac.uk (Steve Lang) writes:\n> > Values can also refer to meaning. For example in computer science the\n> > value of 1 is TRUE, and 0 is FALSE.\n> \n> Not in Lisp.\n\nTrue, all you need to define is one statement that defined one\npolarity, and all the other states are considered the other\npolarity. Then again what is the meaning of nil, false or true :-) ?\n\nCheers,\nKent\n---\nsandvik@newton.apple.com. ALink: KSAND -- Private activities on the net.\n",
'From: dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer)\nSubject: Re: fibromyalgia\nOrganization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA\n\nIn article <93Apr5.133521edt.1231@smoke.cs.toronto.edu> craig@cs.toronto.edu (Craig MacDonald) writes:\n>> It may be extremely\n>>common, something like 5% of the population. It is treatable with\n>>tricyclic antidepressant-type drugs (Elavil, Pamelor). \n>\n>Why is it treated with antidepressants? Is it considered a\n>psychogenic condition?\n\nNo. That these drugs happen to be useful as antidepressants is neither\nhere nor there.\n\n-- \nSteve Dyer\ndyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer\n',
'From: geb@cs.pitt.edu (Gordon Banks)\nSubject: Re: request for information on "essential tremor" and Indrol?\nReply-To: geb@cs.pitt.edu (Gordon Banks)\nOrganization: Univ. of Pittsburgh Computer Science\nLines: 12\n\nIn article <1q1tbnINNnfn@life.ai.mit.edu> sundar@ai.mit.edu writes:\n\nEssential tremor is a progressive hereditary tremor that gets worse\nwhen the patient tries to use the effected member. All limbs, vocal\ncords, and head can be involved. Inderal is a beta-blocker and\nis usually effective in diminishing the tremor. Alcohol and mysoline\nare also effective, but alcohol is too toxic to use as a treatment.\n-- \n----------------------------------------------------------------------------\nGordon Banks N3JXP | "Skepticism is the chastity of the intellect, and\ngeb@cadre.dsl.pitt.edu | it is shameful to surrender it too soon." \n----------------------------------------------------------------------------\n',
'From: cpage@two-step.seas.upenn.edu (Carter C. Page)\nSubject: Re: Reason vs. Revelation\nOrganization: University of Pennsylvania\nLines: 130\n\nIn article <Apr.8.00.58.08.1993.28309@athos.rutgers.edu> trajan (Stephen McIntyre) writes:\n>In article <Apr.2.01.58.09.1993.17541@athos.rutgers.edu> writes:\n>\n>> I can only reply with what it says in 1 Timothy 3:16 :\n\n>I\'m not here to discount parts of the Bible. Rather, I\'m\n> here only to discount the notion of "revelation."\n> The author of 1 Timothy told what he thought was the\n> truth, based on his belief in God, his faith in Jesus\n> as the resurrected Son, and his readings of the Old\n> Testament. But again, what had been revealed to him\n> was based on (at best) second-hand information, given\n> by friends and authors who may not have given the\n> whole truth or who may have exaggerated a bit.\n \nFirst of all, the original poster misquoted. The reference is from 2 Tim 3:16.\nThe author was Paul, and his revelations were anything but "(at best) \nsecond-hand".\n\n\t"And is came about that as [Saul] journeyed, he was approaching\n\t Damascus, and suddenly a light from heaven flashed around him; and\n\t he fell to the ground, and heard a voice saying to him, "Saul, Saul,\n\t why are you persecuting Me?" And he said, "Who art Thou, Lord?" And\n\t He said, "I am Jesus whom you are persecuting, . . ."\n\t\t(Acts 9:3-5, NAS)\n\nPaul received revelation directly from the risen Jesus! (Pretty cool, eh?) He\nbecame closely involved with the early church, the leaders of which were \nfollowers of Jesus throughout his ministry on earth.\n\n>Now, you may say, "The Holy Spirit revealed these things\n> unto him," and we could go into that argument, but\n> you\'d be hard-pressed to convince me that the Holy\n> Spirit exists. \n\nI agree. I don\'t believe anyone but the Spirit would be able to convince you \nthe Spirit exists. Please don\'t complain about this being circular. I know\nit is, but really, can anything of the natural world explain the supernatural?\n(This is why revelation is necessary to the authors of the Bible.)\n\n> Additionally, what he has written is\n> again second-hand info if it were given by the Spirit,\n> and still carries the chance it is not true.\n\nThe Spirit is part of God. How much closer to the source can you get?\nThe Greek in 2 Timothy which is sometimes translated as "inspired by God", \nliterally means "God-breathed". In other words, God spoke the actual words \ninto the scriptures. Many theologians and Bible scholars (Dr. James Boice is \none that I can remember off-hand) get quite annoyed by the dryness and \nincompleteness of "inspired by God".\n\n>The only way you would be able to escape this notion of\n> "second-hand" info is to have had the entire Bible\n> written by God himself. And to tell the truth, I\'ve\n> studied the Bible extensively, and have yet to \n> hear of scholars who have put forth objective evidence\n> showing God as the first author of this collection of\n> books.\n\nThat\'s what the verse taken from 2 Timothy was all about. The continuity of a \nbook written over a span of 1500 years by more than 40 authors from all walks \nof life is a testimony to the single authorship of God.\n\n>> And as for reason, read what it says in 1 Corinthians 1:18-31 about\n>> human wisdom. Basically it says that human wisdom is useless when\n>> compared with what God has written for our learning.\n\n>If you knew of Jesus as well as you know the Bible, you\'d\n> realize he reasoned out the law and the prophets for \n> the common man. \n\nWhat source to you claim to have discovered which has information of superior\nhistoricity to the Bible? Certainly not Josephus\' writings, or the writings \nof the Gnostics which were third century, at the earliest.\n\n> And though some claim Jesus was \n> he was human, with all of the human wisdom the\n> apostle Paul set out to criticize. Yet, would you not\n> embrace the idea that Jesus was wise?\n\nJesus was fully God as well. That\'s why I\'d assert that he is wise.\n\n>> I realise that you may not accept the authority of the Bible. This is\n>> unfortunate to say the least, because there is no other way of learning\n>> about God and Christ and God\'s purpose with the earth than reading the\n>> Bible and searching out its truth for yourself.\n>\n>For your information, I was raised without any knowledge of\n> God. By the time some of the faithful came to show me\n> the Word and share with me its truth, I was living\n> happily and morally without acknowledging the existence\n> of a supreme being. I have, though, read the Bible\n> several times over in its entirety and have studied it\n> thoroughly. It contains truth in it, and I consider\n> Jesus to be one of the most moral of human beings to\n> have lived (in fact, I darn-near idolize the guy.) But\n> there\'s no rational reason for me to except God\'s\n> existence.\n\nPlease rethink this last paragraph. If there is no God, which seems to be your\ncurrent belief, then Jesus was either a liar or a complete nut because not\nonly did he assert that God exists, but he claimed to be God himself! (regards\nto C.S. Lewis) How then could you have the least bit of respect for Jesus?\n\tIn conclusion, be careful about logically unfounded hypotheses based\non gut feelings about the text and other scholars\' unsubstantiated claims. \nThe Bible pleads that we take it in its entirety or throw the whole book out.\n\tAbout your reading of the Bible, not only does the Spirit inspire the\nwriters, but he guides the reader as well. We cannot understand it in the \nleast without the Spirit\'s guidance:\n\n\t"For to us God revealed them through the Spirit; for the Spirit \n\tsearches all things, even the depths of God." (1 Cor 2:10, NAS)\n \nPeace and may God guide us in wisdom.\n\n+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=\nCarter C. Page | Of happiness the crown and chiefest part is wisdom,\nA Carpenter\'s Apprentice | and to hold God in awe. This is the law that,\ncpage@seas.upenn.edu | seeing the stricken heart of pride brought down,\n | we learn when we are old. -Adapted from Sophocles\n+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=+-=-+-=+-=-+=-+-=-+-=-+=-+-=\n\n[Other theologians get quite annoyed at the misleadingess of\n"God-breathed." It\'s true that the Greek word has as its roots "God"\nand "breath". However etymology doesn\'t necessarily tell you what a\nword means. Otherwise, "goodbye" would be a religious expression\n(since it comes from "God be with ye"). You have to look at how the\nword was actually used. In this case the word is used for wisdom or\ndreams that come from God. But "God-breathed" is an overtranslation.\n--clh]\n',
"From: oser@fermi.wustl.edu (Scott Oser)\nSubject: Re: DID HE REALLY RISE?\nOrganization: Washington University Astrophysics\nLines: 4\n\nFrank, I got your mailing on early historical references to Christianity.\nI'd like to respond, but I lost your address. Please mail me.\n\n-Scott Oser\n",
'From: jxl9011@ultb.isc.rit.edu (J.X. Lee)\nSubject: JOB\nNntp-Posting-Host: ultb-gw.isc.rit.edu\nOrganization: Rochester Institute of Technology\nDistribution: SERI\nLines: 45\n\n\t\t\n\t JOB OPPORTUNITY\n\t\t ---------------\n\n\nSERI(Systems Engineering Research Institute), of KIST(Korea\nInstitute of Science and Technology) is looking for the resumes\nfor the following position and need them by the end of June (6/30). \nIf you are interested, send resumes to:\n\n\tCAD/CAE lab (6th floor)\n\tSystems Engineering Research Institute\n\tKorea Institute of Science and Technology \n\tYousung-Gu, Eoeun-Dong,\n\tDaejon. Korea\n\t305-600\n\n\n\tCOMPANY: Systems Engineering Research Institute\n\n\tTITLE : Senior Research Scientist\n\n\tJOB DESCRIPTION : In depth knowledge of C.\n\tWorking knowledge of Computer Aided Design.\n\tWorking knowledge of Computer Graphics.\n\tWorking knowledge of Virtual Reality.\n\tSkills not required but desirable : knowledge of\n\tdata modeling, virtual reality experience,\n\tunderstanding of client/server architecture.\n\n\tREQUIREMENT : Ph.D\n\n\tJOB LOCATION : Daejon, Korea\n\n\tContact Info : Chul-Ho, Lim\n\t\t CAD/CAE lab (6th floor)\n\t\t Systems Engineering Research Institute\n\t\t Korea Institute of Science and Technology \n\t \t Yousung-Gu, Eoeun-Dong,\n\t\t Daejon. Korea\n\t\t 305-600\n\n\t\t Phone) 82-42-869-1681\n\t\t Fax) 82-42-861-1999 \n\t\t E-mail) jxl9011@129.21.200.201\n',
"From: brian@porky.contex.com (Brian Love)\nSubject: Re: TIFF: philosophical significance of 42\nOrganization: Xyvision Design Systems\nLines: 9\n\nIn article <25335@alice.att.com> td@alice.att.com (Tom Duff) writes:\n>ulrich@galki.toppoint.de wrote:\n>> Does anyone have any other suggestions where the 42 came from?\n>Forty-two is six times nine.\n\n...for very small values of six and nine.\n\n(Sorry, Tom, I couldn't resist...)\n\n",
"From: keith@cco.caltech.edu (Keith Allan Schneider)\nSubject: Re: >>>>>>Pompous ass\nOrganization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena\nLines: 14\nNNTP-Posting-Host: punisher.caltech.edu\n\nlivesey@solntze.wpd.sgi.com (Jon Livesey) writes:\n\n>>>How long does it [the motto] have to stay around before it becomes the\n>>>default? ... Where's the cutoff point? \n>>I don't know where the exact cutoff is, but it is at least after a few\n>>years, and surely after 40 years.\n>Why does the notion of default not take into account changes\n>in population makeup? \n\nSpecifically, which changes are you talking about? Are you arguing\nthat the motto is interpreted as offensive by a larger portion of the\npopulation now than 40 years ago?\n\nkeith\n",
'From: saw8712@bcstec.ca.boeing.com (Steve A. Ward)\nSubject: Re: Mormon Temples\nOrganization: Boeing Computer Services\nLines: 25\n\nmserv@mozart.cc.iup.edu (Mail Server) writes:\n\n>One thing I don\'t understand is why being sacred should make the\n>temple rituals secret. \n\nOn of the attributes of being sacred in this case is that they\nshould not be spoken of in a "common manner" or "trampled under\nfeet" such as the Lords name is today. The ceremonies are\nperformed in the temple because the temple has been set aside\nas being as sacred/holy/uncommon place. We believe that the \nceremonies can only be interpreted correctly when they\nare viewed with the right spirit- which in this case is in the\ntemple. So from our point of view, when they are brought\nout into the public, they are being trampled under feet,\nbecause of misinterpretations and mocking, and it is therefore\noffensive to us.\n\nPlease do not assume that because of my use of the words\n\'we\' and \'our\' that I\'m an official spokesman for the LDS\nchurch. I am merely stating what I believe is the general\nfeeling among us. Others feel free to disagree.\n\n--\nSteve Ward\nsaw8712@bcstec.ca.boeing.com \n',
'From: young@serum.kodak.com (Rich Young)\nSubject: Re: what are the problems with nutrasweet (aspartame)\nOriginator: young@sasquatch\nNntp-Posting-Host: sasquatch\nReply-To: young@serum.kodak.com\nOrganization: Clinical Diagnostics Division, Eastman Kodak Company\nLines: 76\n\nIn article <1993Apr17.181013.3743@uvm.edu> hbloom@moose.uvm.edu (*Heather*) writes:\n>Nutrasweet is a synthetic sweetener a couple thousand times sweeter than\n>sugar. Some people are concerned about the chemicals that the body produces \n>when it degrades nutrasweet. It is thought to form formaldehyde and known to\n>for methanol in the degredation pathway that the body uses to eliminate \n>substances. The real issue is whether the levels of methanol and formaldehyde\n>produced are high enough to cause significant damage, as both are toxic to\n>living cells. All I can say is that I will not consume it. \n\n[...]\n\n In the September 1992 issue of THE TUFTS UNIVERSITY DIET AND NUTRITION\n LETTER, there is a three page article about artificial sweeteners. What\n follows are those excerpts which deal specifically with Nutrasweet.\n\n [Reproduced without permission]\n\n\t The controversy [over aspartame] began six years ago in England,\n\twhere a group of researchers found that aspartame, marketed under\n\tthe tradename Nutrasweet, appears to stimulate appetite and,\n\tpresumably, the eating of more calories in the long run than if\n\ta person simply consumed sugar. When researchers asked a group\n\tof 95 people to drink plain water, aspartame-sweetened water, and\n\tsugared water, they said that overall they felt hungriest after\n\tdrinking the artificially sweetened beverage.\n\t The study received widespread media attention and stirred a\n\tgood deal of concern among the artificial-sweetener-using public.\n\tHowever, its results were questionable at best, since the researchers\n\tdid not go on to measure whether the increase in appetite did\n\tactually translate into an increase in eating. The two do not\n\tnecessarily go hand in hand.\n\t In the years that followed, more than a dozen studies examining\n\tthe effect of aspartame on appetite -- and eating -- were conducted.\n\tAnd after reviewing every one of them, the director of the\n\tLaboratory of the Study of Human Ingestive Behavior at Johns Hopkins\n\tUniversity, Barbara Rolls, Ph.D., concluded that consuming aspartame-\n\tsweetened foods and drinks is not associated with any increase in\n\tthe amount of food eaten afterward.\n\n\t One artificial sweetener that is not typically accused of causing\n\tcancer is aspartame. But it most certainly has been blamed for a\n\thost of other ills. Since its introduction in 1981, the government\n\thas received thousands of complaints accusing it of causing\n\teverything from headaches to nausea to mood swings to anxiety.\n\tStill, years of careful scientific study conducted both before and\n\tafter the sweetener\'s entering the market have failed to confirm\n\tthat it can bring about adverse health effects. That\'s why the\n\tCenters for Disease Control (the government agency charged with\n\tmonitoring public health), the American Medical Association\'s\n\tCouncil on Scientific Affairs, and the Food and Drug Administration\n\thave given aspartame, one of the most studied food additives, a\n\tclean bill of health.\n\t Granted, the FDA has set forth an "acceptable daily intake" of\n\t50 milligrams of aspartame per kilogram of body weight. To exceed\n\tthe limit, however, a 120-pound (55 kg.) woman would have to take\n\tin 2,750 milligrams of aspartame -- the amount in 15 cans of\n\taspartame-sweetened soda pop, 14 cups of gelatin, 22 cups of yogurt,\n\tor 55 six-ounce servings of aspartame-containing hot cocoa,...\n\tA 175-pound (80 kg.) man would have to consume some 4,000 milligrams\n\tof the sweetener -- the amount in 22 cans of soda pop or 32 cups\n\tof yogurt -- to go over the limit. [chart with aspartame content\n\tof selected foods omitted]\n\t Only one small group of people must be certain to stay away\n\tfrom aspartame: those born with a rare metabolic disorder called\n\tphenylketonuria, or PKU. The estimated one person in every 12,000\n\tto 15,000 who has it is unable to properly metabolize an essential\n\tamino acid in aspartame called phenylalanine. Once a child\n\tconsumes it, it builds up in the body and can ultimately cause\n\tsuch severe problems as mental retardation. To help people with\n\tPKU avoid the substance, labels on cans of soda pop and other\n\taspartame-sweetened foods must carry the warning "Phenylketonurics:\n\tContains Phenylalanine."\n\n\n-Rich Young (These are not Kodak\'s opinions.)\n\n',
"From: rolfe@junior.dsu.edu (Tim Rolfe)\nSubject: Divine providence vs. Murphy's Law\nLines: 12\n\nRomans 8:28 (RSV) We know that in everything God works for good with those \nwho love him, who are called according to his purpose. \n\nMurphy's Law: If anything can go wrong, it will.\n\nWe are all quite familiar with the amplifications and commentary on\nMurphy's Law. But how do we harmonize that with Romans 8:28? For that\nmatter, how appropriate is humor contradicted by Scripture?\n--\n --- Tim Rolfe\n rolfe@dsuvax.dsu.edu\n rolfe@junior.dsu.edu\n",
'From: Dave Watson <watson@maths.uwa.edu.au>\nSubject: Re: Delaunay Triangulation\nOrganization: The University of Western Australia\nLines: 29\nDistribution: world\nReply-To: watson@maths.uwa.edu.au\nNNTP-Posting-Host: madvax.maths.uwa.oz.au\n\nzyeh@caspian.usc.edu (zhenghao yeh) writes:\n\n>Does anybody know what Delaunay Triangulation is?\n>Is there any reference to it? \n\nThe Delaunay triangulation is the geometrical dual of the \nVoronoi tessellation and both constructions are derived from\nnatural neighbor order.\n\nAurenhammer, F., 1991, Voronoi Diagrams - A Survey of a \nFundamental Geometric Data Structure:\nACM Computing Surveys, 23(3), p. 345-405. \n\nOkabe, A., Boots, B., and Sugihara, K., 1992, Spatial \ntessellations : concepts and applications of Voronoi diagrams: \nWiley & Sons, New York, ISBN 0 471 93430 5, 532p.\n\nWatson, D.F., 1981, Computing the n-dimensional Delaunay \ntessellation with application to Voronoi polytopes: \nThe Computer J., 24(2), p. 167-172.}\n\nWatson, D.F., 1985, Natural neighbour sorting: The Australian \nComputer J., 17(4), p. 189-193. \n\n--\nDave Watson Internet: watson@maths.uwa.edu.au\nDepartment of Mathematics \nThe University of Western Australia Tel: (61 9) 380 3359\nNedlands, WA 6009 Australia. FAX: (61 9) 380 1028\n',
'From: KEMPJA@rcwusr.bp.com\nSubject: Re: Religious wars\nOrganization: BP Research, Cleveland, OH (USA)\nLines: 30\n\n\nIn article <Apr.21.03.24.44.1993.1288@geneva.rutgers.edu>, fraseraj@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (Andrew J Fraser) writes:\n> "Well you know that religion has caused more wars than\n> anything else"\n> It bothers me that I cannot seem to find a satisfactory\n> response to this. After all if our religion is all about\n> peace and love why have there been so many religious wars?\n\nOf course if this question was asked in a group dealing with economics,\nthe answer would be that the cause of war was economic. My observations\nover the past 30 years (and not withstanding a little history reading\nbeside) is that while religious differences do play a part in many of\nthe conflicts, so does (unfortunately) race, economics and any other\nitems that identify one group of men as being different from another.\n\nIf we want to couch the cause of conflict in Christian terms, I would\nput it while Christ died for our sins, we are yet sinners. While some\nindividuals assume "Christlike" natures, most of us do not even\ncome close.\n\nI realize that in many ways this is a trite answer, but I guess that\nit is my way of rationalizing man\'s constant (or so it seems)\nconflict.\n\n\n---------------------------------------------------------------------\n\nJerry Kemp (Somtime Consultant)\nInternet: kempja@rcwusr.bp.com\n kemp_ja@tnd001.dnet.bp.com\n',
'From: alvin@spot.Colorado.EDU (Kenneth Alvin)\nSubject: Re: Assurance of Hell\nOrganization: University of Colorado, Boulder\nLines: 31\n\nIn article <Apr.20.03.01.19.1993.3755@geneva.rutgers.edu> REXLEX@fnal.fnal.gov writes:\n>\n>2) If you haven\'t accepted Jesus are your Savior, you\'re taking an awful\n>chance. As I say to the Jehovah Witnesses (who no longer frequent my door), if\n>you are right and I am wrong, then I will have lived a good life and will die\n>and cease to exist, but if I am right and you are wrong, then you will die and\n>suffer eternal damnation. I don\'t mean to make fun at this point, but its like\n>Dirty Harry said, "You\'ve got to ask yourself, \'Do I feel lucky?\' Well do\n>you?" "A man\'s got to know his limitations." Don\'t be one of the "whosoever\n>wont\'s." \n\nThis is a ridiculous argument for being a Christian. So then, you might \nconsider switching from Christianity to another religion if you were \noffered an even more frightening description of another hell? How many\nChristians do think there are who view it strictly as an insurance policy?\nNot many I know; they believe in a message of love and compassion for \nothers. A faith based on fear of hell sounds like a dysfunctional \nrelationship with God. Like a child who cringes in fear of a parent\'s\nphysical violence. \n\nMany religions have concrete views of heaven and hell, with various\nthreats and persuasions regarding who will go where. Competition over\nwho can envison the worst hell can hardly nurture the idea of loving\nyour neighbor as yourself.\n\n>--Rex\n\n-- \ncomments, criticism welcome...\n-Ken\nalvin@ucsu.colorado.edu\n',
'From: se92psh@brunel.ac.uk (Peter Hauke)\nSubject: Re: Grayscale Printer\nOrganization: Brunel University, Uxbridge, UK\nX-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]\nDistribution: na\nLines: 13\n\nJian Lu (jian@coos.dartmouth.edu) wrote:\n: We are interested in purchasing a grayscale printer that offers a good\n: resoltuion for grayscale medical images. Can anybody give me some\n: recommendations on these products in the market, in particular, those\n: under $5000?\n\n: Thank for the advice.\n-- \n***********************************\n* Peter Hauke @ Brunel University *\n*---------------------------------*\n* se92psh@brunel.ac.uk *\n***********************************\n',
'From: dhartung@chinet.chi.il.us (Dan Hartung)\nSubject: _The Andromeda Strain_\nSummary: How well does it hold up?\nOrganization: Chinet - Public Access UNIX\nLines: 28\n\nJust had the opportunity to watch this flick on A&E -- some 15 years\nsince I saw it last. \n\nI was very interested in the technology demonstrated in this film\nfor handling infectious diseases (and similar toxic substances).\nClearly they "faked" a lot of the computer & robotic technology;\ncertainly at the time it was made most of that was science fiction\nitself, let alone the idea of a "space germ". \n\nQuite coincidentally [actually this is what got me wanted to see\nthe movie again] I watched a segment on the otherwise awful _How\'d\nThey Do That?_ dealing with a disease researcher at the CDC\'s top\nlab. There was description of the elaborate security measures taken\nso that building will never be "cracked" so to speak by man or\nnature (short of deliberate bombing from the air, perhaps). And\nthe researchers used "spacesuits" similar to that in the film.\n\nI\'m curious what people think about this film -- short of "silly".\nIs such a facility technically feasible today? \n\nAs far as the plot, and the crystalline structure that is not Life\nAs We Know It, that\'s a whole \'nother argument for rec.arts.sf.tech\nor something.\n-- \n | Next: a Waco update ... an Ohio prison update ... a Bosnia update ... a |\n | Russian update ... an abortion update ... and a Congressional update ... |\n | here on SNN: The Standoff News Network. All news, all standoff, all day |\n Daniel A. Hartung -- dhartung@chinet.chinet.com -- Ask me about Rotaract\n',
'From: bassili@cs.arizona.edu (Amgad Z. Bassili)\nSubject: Need a book\nLines: 4\n\nI appreciate if anyone can point out some good books about the dead sea\nscrolls of Qumran. Thanks in advance.\n\nPlease reply by e-mail at <bassili@cs.arizona.edu>\n',
'From: lex@optimla.aimla.com (Lex van Sonderen)\nSubject: Re: Rumours about 3DO ???\nNntp-Posting-Host: emerald\nOrganization: Philips Interactive Media of America\nLines: 20\n\nIn article <h1p4s4g@zola.esd.sgi.com> erik@westworld.esd.sgi.com (Erik Fortune) writes:\n>> better than CDI\n>*Much* better than CDI.\nOf course, I do not agree. It does have more horsepower. Horsepower is not\nthe only measurement for \'better\'. It does not have full motion, full screen\nvideo yet. Does it have CD-ROM XA?\n\n>> starting in the 4 quarter of 1993\n>The first 3DO "multiplayer" will be manufactured by panasonic and will be \n>available late this year. A number of other manufacturers are reported to \n>have 3DO compatible boxes in the works.\nWhich other manufacturers?\nWe shall see about the date.\n\n>All this information is third hand or so and worth what you paid for it:-).\nThis is second hand, but it still hard to look to the future ;-).\n\nLex van Sonderen\nlex@aimla.com\nPhilips Interactive Media\n',
'From: Petch@gvg47.gvg.tek.com (Chuck Petch)\nSubject: Daily Verse\nOrganization: Grass Valley Group, Grass Valley, CA\nLines: 4\n\nFor whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother and sister\nand mother." \n\nMatthew 12:50\n',
'From: qpliu@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (q.p.liu)\nSubject: Re: free moral agency\nOriginator: news@nimaster\nNntp-Posting-Host: phoenix.princeton.edu\nReply-To: qpliu@princeton.edu\nOrganization: Princeton University\nLines: 26\n\nIn article <kmr4.1575.734879106@po.CWRU.edu> kmr4@po.CWRU.edu (Keith M. Ryan) writes:\n>In article <1993Apr15.000406.10984@Princeton.EDU> qpliu@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (q.p.liu) writes:\n>\n>>>So while Faith itself is a Gift, obedience is what makes Faith possible.\n>>What makes obeying different from believing?\n\n>\tI am still wondering how it is that I am to be obedient, when I have \n>no idea to whom I am to be obedient!\n\nIt is all written in _The_Wholly_Babble:_the_Users_Guide_to_Invisible_\n_Pink_Unicorns_.\n\nTo be granted faith in invisible pink unicorns, you must read the Babble,\nand obey what is written in it.\n\nTo obey what is written in the Babble, you must believe that doing so is\nthe way to be granted faith in invisible pink unicorns.\n\nTo believe that obeying what is written in the Babble leads to believing\nin invisible pink unicorns, you must, essentially, believe in invisible\npink unicorns.\n\nThis bit of circular reasoning begs the question:\nWhat makes obeying different from believing?\n-- \nqpliu@princeton.edu Standard opinion: Opinions are delta-correlated.\n',
"From: mjliu@csie.nctu.edu.tw (Ming-zhou Liu)\nSubject: H E L P M E ---> desperate with some VD\nOrganization: Dep. Computer Science & Engin. of Chiao Tung U., Taiwan, ROC\nLines: 20\n\nI have bad luck and got a VD called <Granuloma ingunale>, which involves\nthe growth of granules in the groin. I found out about it by checking medicine\nbooks and I found the prescriptions. And I know I can just go to a clinic to\nget it cured. BUT unfortunately I am serving my duty in the army right now and\nI think it's impossible to prevent anyone from knowing this if I take leaves \nevery day for two weeks for treatment. Thus I bought the prescribed tablets\nat some drugstore, but to cure it I must get INJECTION of <Streptomycin>, with\na dose of 1g every 12 hours, for at least 10 days. I can probably buy the \ntools and this solution somewhere but I DON'T KNOW HOW TO DO INJECTION BY MYSELF\n!\nCan any kind people here tell me:\n\nIf it's possible to do it? Can I do it on my arm? or it must be done on the hip\nonly?? Any info is welcome and please write me or post your help SOON!! (I am\nalready taking the tablets ..and I can't wait!!)\n\nPlease don't flame me for posting this, and don't judge me. I've learned a \nlesson and all I need now is REAL MEDICAL HELP.\n\nDesperate from Taipei \n",
"From: rob@rjck.UUCP (Robert J.C. Kyanko)\nSubject: Re: Weitek P9000 ?\nDistribution: world\nOrganization: Neptune Software Inc\nLines: 23\n\nabraxis@iastate.edu writes in article <abraxis.734340159@class1.iastate.edu>:\n> \n> Anyone know about the Weitek P9000 graphics chip?\n> Micron is selling it with their systems They rank them at 50 winmarks...\n> Any info would help...\n> thanks.\n\nIt's supposedly a high-performance chip based upon workstation graphics\naccelerators. It's quite fast (I have 7), but as usual with new boards/chips\nthe drivers are buggy for Windows. As far as Winmarks go, it depends upon\nthe version. I think I got 42M winmarks with version 3.11. 2.5 yielded the\n50+ number. I've also benchmarked this with Wintach at over 65 (from memory\nas well).\n\nAs far as the low-level stuff goes, it looks pretty nice. It's got this\nquadrilateral fill command that requires just the four points.\n\nIt's very fast, but beware of buggy drivers, and otherwise no non-windows\nsupport.\n\n--\nI am not responsible for anything I do or say -- I'm just an opinion.\n Robert J.C. Kyanko (rob@rjck.UUCP)\n",
'From: sdbsd5@cislabs.pitt.edu (Stephen D Brener)\nSubject: Japanese for Scientists and Engineers\nOrganization: University of Pittsburgh\nLines: 101\n\n\n INTENSIVE JAPANESE AT THE UNIVERSITY OF PITTSBURGH THIS SUMMER\n ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^\n\n\nThe University of Pittsburgh is offering two intensive Japanese language\ncourses this summer. Both courses, Intensive Elementary Japanese and \nIntensive Intermediate Japanese, are ten week, ten credit courses \neach equivalent to one full year of Japanese language study. They begin \nJune 7 and end August 13. The courses meet five days per week, five hours \nper day. There is a flat rate tuition charge of $1600 per course. \nFellowships available for science and engineering students. Contact \nSteven Brener, Program Manager of the Japanese Science and Technology\nManagement Program, at the University of Pittsburgh at the number or\naddress below. \nALL INTERESTED INDIVIDUALS ARE ENCOURAGED TO APPLY, THIS IS NOT LIMITED TO \nUNIVERSITY STUDENTS.\n\n\n\n \n\n#######################################################################\n################# New Program Announcement ########################\n#######################################################################\n\n\n JAPANESE SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY MANAGEMENT PROGRAM\n\nThe Japanese Science and Technology Management Program (JSTMP) is a new\nprogram jointly developed by the University of Pittsbugh and Carnegie Mellon \nUniversity. Students and professionals in the engineering and scientific \ncommunitites are encouraged to apply for classes commencing in June 1993 and \nJanuary 1994.\n\n\nPROGRAM OBJECTIVES\nThe program intends to promote technology transfer between Japan and the \nUnited States. It is also designed to let scientists, engineers, and managers\nexperience how the Japanese proceed with technological development. This is \nfacilitated by extended internships in Japanese research facilities and\nlaboratories that provide participants with the opportunity to develop\nlong-term professional relationships with their Japanese counterparts.\n\n\nPROGRAM DESIGN\nTo fulfill the objectives of the program, participants will be required to \ndevelop advanced language capability and a deep understanding of Japan and\nits culture. Correspondingly, JSTMP consists of three major components:\n\n1. TRAINING IN THE JAPANESE LANGUAGE\nSeveral Japanese language courses will be offered, including intensive courses\ndesigned to expedite language preparation for scientists and engineers in a\nrelatively short time.\n\n2. EDUCATION IN JAPANESE BUSINESS AND SOCIAL CULTURE\nA particular enphasis is placed on attaining a deep understanding of the\ncultural and educational basis of Japanese management approaches in \nmanufacturing and information technology. Courses will be available in a \nvariety of departments throughout both universities including Anthropology,\nSociology, History, and Political Science. Moreover, seminars and colloquiums\nwill be conducted. Further, a field trip to Japanese manufacturing or \nresearch facilities in the United States will be scheduled.\n\n\n3. AN INTERNSHIP OR A STUDY MISSION IN JAPAN\nUpon completion of their language and cultural training at PITT and CMU, \nparticipants will have the opportunity to go to Japan and observe,\nand participate in the management of technology. Internships in Japan\nwill generally run for one year; however, shorter ones are possible.\n\n\nFELLOWSHIPS COVERING TUITION FOR LANGUAGE AND CULTURE COURSES, AS WELL AS\nSTIPENDS FOR LIVING EXPENSES ARE AVAILABLE.\n\n FOR MORE INFORMATION AND APPLICATION MATERIALS CONTACT\n\nSTEVEN BRENER\t\t\t\tSUSIE BROWN\nJSTMP\t\t\t\t\tCarnegie Mellon University, GSIA\nUniversity of Pittsburgh\t\tPittsburgh, PA 15213-3890\n4E25 Forbes Quadrangle\t\t\tTelephone: (412) 268-7806\nPittsburgh, PA 15260\t\t\tFAX:\t (412) 268-8163\nTelephone: (412) 648-7414\t\t\nFAX: (412) 648-2199\t\t\n\n############################################################################\n############################################################################ \n\n\nInterested individuals, companies and institutions should respond by phone or\nmail. Please do not inquire via e-mail.\nPlease note that this is directed at grads and professionals, however, advanced\nundergrads will be considered. Further, funding is resticted to US citizens\nand permanent residents of the US.\n\nSteve Brener\n\n\n\n\n\n',
'From: kutluk@ccl.umist.ac.uk (Kutluk Ozguven)\nSubject: Re: Jewish Settlers Demolish a Mosque in Gaza\nOrganization: Manchester Computing Centre\nLines: 41\n\nIn <C5IwxM.G0z@news.chalmers.se> d9bertil@dtek.chalmers.se (Bertil Jonell) writes:\n\n>In article <kutluk.734797558@ccl.umist.ac.uk> kutluk@ccl.umist.ac.uk (Kutluk Ozguven) writes:\n>>Atheists are not\n>>mentioned in the Quran because from a Quranic point of view, and a\n>>minute\'s reasoning, one can see that there is no such thing.\n\n> But there are people who say that they are Atheists. If they aren\'t Atheists,\n>what are they?\n\nWhen the Quran uses the word *din* it means way of individual thinking, behaving,\ncommunal order and protocols based on a set of beliefs. This is often\ninterpreted as the much weaker term religion. \n\nThe atheists are not mentioned in the Quran along with Jews,\nMushriqin, Christians, etc. because the latter are all din. To have a\ndin you need a set of beliefs, assumptions, etc, to forma a social\ncode. For example the Marxist have those, such as History, Conflict,\netc. That they do not put idols (sometimes they did) to represent\nthose assuptions does not mean they are any different from the other\nMushriq, or roughly polytheists. \n\nThere cannot be social Atheism, because when there is a community,\nthat community needs common ideas or standard beliefs to coordinate \nthe society. When they inscribe assumptions, say Nation, or "Progress is \nthe natural consequence of Human activity" or "parlamentarian\ndemocracy is doubtlessly the best way of government", however \nthey individually insist they do not have gods, from the Quranic point\nof view they do. Therefore by definition, atheism does not exist. \n"We are a atheist society" in fact means "we reject the din other than\nours". \n\nAtheism can only exist when people reject all the idols/gods/dogmas/\nsuppositions/.. of the society that they part, and in that case that\nis a personal deviation of belief, and Quran tells about such\ndeviations and disbelief. But as I mentioned, from a Quranic point of\nlooking at things, there is no Atheism in the macro level. \n\nI think it took more than one minute.\n\nKutluk\n',
'From: richard@tis.com (Richard Clark)\nSubject: Re: Is MSG sensitivity superstition?\nOrganization: Trusted Information Systems, Inc.\nLines: 30\nNNTP-Posting-Host: sol.tis.com\n\n>packer@delphi.gsfc.nasa.gov (Charles Packer) writes:\n>\n>>Is there such a thing as MSG (monosodium glutamate) sensitivity?\n>>I saw in the NY Times Sunday that scientists have testified before \n>>an FDA advisory panel that complaints about MSG sensitivity are\n>>superstition. Anybody here have experience to the contrary? \n>\n>>I\'m old enough to remember that the issue has come up at least\n>>a couple of times since the 1960s. Then it was called the\n>>"Chinese restaurant syndrome" because Chinese cuisine has\n>>always used it.\n>\n\n\tMy blood pressure soars, my heart pounds, and I can\'t get to sleep\nfor the life of me... feels about like I just drank 8 cups of coffee.\n\n\tI avoid it, and beet sugar, flavor enhancers, beet powder, and\nwhatever other names it may go under. Basicaly I read the ingredients, and\nif I don\'t know what they all are, I don\'t buy the product.\n\n\tMSG sensitivity is definately *real*.\n\n\n\n-----------------------Relativity Schmelativity-----------------------------\n Richard H. Clark\t\t\t\tMy opinions are my own, and\n LUNATIK - watch for me on the road...\t\tought to be yours, but under\n It\'s not my fault... I voted PEROT!\t\tno circumstances are they\n richard@tis.com\t\t\t\tthose of my company...\n-----------------------------------------------------------------------------\n',
"From: chips@astro.ocis.temple.edu (Charlie Mathew)\nSubject: Interdisc. Bible Research Inst.\nOrganization: Temple University\nLines: 27\n\n\n \nHi!\n\n\tAnyone know anything about the Interdisciplinary Bible Research\nInstitute, operating out of Hatfield, Pa?\n\n\tI'm really interested in their theories on old-earth\n(as opposed to young earth) and what they believe about evolution.\n\n\tThanks,\n\t\tIn the Master,\n\n\t\tCharley.\n\n\n--\n Seek God and you will find, among other things,\n piercing pleasure.\n \n Seek pleasure and you will find boredom, disillusionment \n and enslavement.\n \n John White (Eros Defiled).\t\n\n[Note that I do not accept discussions of evolution here, as there\nis a dedicated group for that, talk.origins. --clh]\n",
'From: a137490@lehtori.cc.tut.fi (Aario Sami)\nSubject: Re: note to Bobby M.\nOrganization: Tampere University of Technology, Computing Centre\nLines: 14\nDistribution: sfnet\nNNTP-Posting-Host: cc.tut.fi\n\nIn <1993Apr10.191100.16094@ultb.isc.rit.edu> snm6394@ultb.isc.rit.edu (S.N. Mozumder ) writes:\n\n>Insults about the atheistic genocide was totally unintentional. Under\n>atheism, anything can happen, good or bad, including genocide.\n\nAnd you know why this is? Because you\'ve conveniently _defined_ a theist as\nsomeone who can do no wrong, and you\'ve _defined_ people who do wrong as\natheists. The above statement is circular (not to mention bigoting), and,\nas such, has no value.\n-- \nSami Aario | "Can you see or measure an atom? Yet you can explode\na137490@cc.tut.fi | one. Sunlight is comprised of many atoms."\n-------------------\' "Your stupid minds! Stupid, stupid!"\nEros in "Plan 9 From Outer Space" DISCLAIMER: I don\'t agree with Eros.\n',
'From: brownli@ohsu.edu@ohsu.edu (Liane Brown)\nSubject: CHRIST, MY ADVOCATE - A Poem\nOrganization: Oregon Health Sciences University\nLines: 44\n\n\n _MY ADVOCATE_\n\nI sinned. And straightway, posthaste, Satan flew\nBefore the presence of the Most High God\nAnd made a railing accusation there.\nHe said, "This soul, this thing of clay and sod,\nHas sinned. \'Tis true that he has named Thy name;\nBut I demand his death, for Thou hast said,\n\'The soul that sinneth, it shall die.\' Shall not\nThy sentence be fulfilled? Is justice dead?\nSend now this wretched sinner to his doom!\nWhat other thing can righteous ruler do?"\nThus Satan did accuse me day and night;\nAnd every word he spoke, O God, was true!\n\nThen quickly One rose up from God\'s right hand,\nBefore whose glory angels veiled their eyes;\nHe spoke, "Each jot and tittle of the law\nMust be fulfilled; the guilty sinner dies!\nBut wait -- suppose his guilt were all transferred\nTo Me and that I paid his penalty!\nBehold My hands, My side, My feet! One day\nI was made sin for him and died that he\nMight be presented, faultless, at Thy throne!"\nAnd Satan flew away. Full well he knew\nThat he could not prevail against such love,\nfor every word my dear Lord spoke was true!\n\n\n\t\t\t\t\tby Martha Snell Nicholson\n\n+++++++++++++++++++++++\nI heard this poem read last night and wanted to share it with other \nsubscribers of this newsgroup. It\'s such a wonderful blessing to see how \nsecure our salvation is because the Lord Jesus paid for what He did not owe \nbecause we had a debt which we were not capable to pay.\n\nThanks and praise be to the Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ, who is seated at \nthe right hand of the Majesty on High, making intercession for us.\n++++++++++++++++++++++++\n\nLiane Brown\n(Internet) brownli@ohsu.edu\n',
'From: kshin@stein.u.washington.edu (Kevin Shin)\nSubject: thinning algorithm\nOrganization: University of Washington, Seattle\nLines: 10\nNNTP-Posting-Host: stein.u.washington.edu\n\nHi, netters\n\nI am looking for source code that can reads the ascii file\nor bitmap file and produced the thinned image.\nFor example, to preprocess the character image I want to\napply thinning algorithm.\n\nthanks\nkevin\n.\n',
"From: Sean McMains <mcmains@unt.edu>\nSubject: Re: Rumours about 3DO ???\nX-Xxmessage-Id: <A7F81FD2F801023C@seanmac.acs.unt.edu>\nX-Xxdate: Mon, 19 Apr 93 15: 22:26 GMT\nOrganization: University of North Texas\nX-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1.1d20\nLines: 83\n\nFirst off: Thanks to all who have filled me in on the existence of the\n68070. I assumed rashly that the particular number would be reserved for\nfurther enhancements to the Motorola line, rather than meted out to\nanother company. Ah, well, I guess that's what I get when I assume the\ncomputer industry will operate in a logical manner! ;-)\n\nIn article <1993Apr16.212441.34125@rchland.ibm.com> Ricardo Hernandez\nMuchado, ricardo@rchland.vnet.ibm.com writes:\n> Sean, I don't want to get into a 'mini-war' by what I am going to say,\n>but I have to be a little bit skeptic about the performance you are\n>claiming on the Centris, you'll see why (please, no-flames, I reserve\n>those for c.s.m.a :-) )\n>\n> I was in Chicago in the last consumer electronics show, and Apple had\na\n>booth there. I walked by, and they were showing real-time video capture\n>using a (Radious or SuperMac?) card to digitize and make right on the\nspot\n>quicktime movies. I think the quicktime they were using was the old one\n>(1.5).\n\nVersion 1.5 of Quicktime is, as has been stated, the current version of\nthe software. The older version is 1.0, and 1.6 is on the horizon in the\nnot too distant future.\n\n> They digitized a guy talking there in 160x2xx something. It played\nback quite\n>nicely and in real time. The guy then expanded the window (resized) to\n25x by\n>3xx (320 in y I think) and the frame rate decreased enough to notice\nthat it\n>wasn't 30fps (or about 30fps) anymore. It dropped to like 15 fps. Then\nhe\n>increased it just a bit more, and it dropped to 10<->12 fps. \n\nQuicktime does a much better job of playing back movies at size than it\ndoes playing back resized movies. Apparently the process of expanding\neach frame's image and dithering the resultant bitmap to the appropriate\nbit depth is pretty processor-intensive. There are optimizers that work\npretty well for showing movies at double size, but if you drop to 1.9x\nsize or increase to 2.1x size, performance suffers dramatically.\n\n> Then I asked him what Mac he was using... He was using a Quadra\n(don't know\n>what model, 900?) to do it, and he was telling the guys there that the\nQuicktime\n>could play back at the same speed even on an LCII.\n\nHe lied. :-) Quicktime is very CPU dependent. He was probably confused by\nthe fact that QT is locked to an internal timecode, and will play in the\nsame amount of time on any machine. However, an LC will drop frames in\norder to keep the sound and video synced up.\n\nThe Centris and Quadras have similar CPUs and will thus boast similar\nperformance, though the Quadras will be a bit faster due to marginally\nfaster clock speeds and somewhat different architecture.\n\n> Well, I spoiled his claim so to say, since a 68040 Quadra Mac was\nhaving\n>a little bit of trouble. And this wasn't even from the hardisk! This\nwas\n>from memory!\n>\n> Could it be that you saw either a newer version of quicktime, or some\n>hardware assisted Centris, or another software product running the \n>animation (like supposedly MacroMind's Accelerator?)?\n\nI expect that the version of the Quicktime software you saw was 1.0 -- I\nwas using was 1.5. One of the new codecs in v1.5 allows video at nearly\ntwice the size and the same frame rate as what version 1.0 could handle.\nThe Centris 650 I saw was a plain-vanilla, with the exception of the nice\nspeakers that were playing the sound, and the software was Movie Player,\nthe QT player Apple includes with the software.\n\n> Don't misunderstand me, I just want to clarify this.\n\nNo problem -- it still surprises me that Quicktime is able to do the\nthings it does as well as it can.\n========================================================================\nSean McMains | Check out the Gopher | Phone:817.565.2039\nUniversity of North Texas | New Bands Info server | Fax :817.565.4060\nP.O. Box 13495 | at seanmac.acs.unt.edu | E-Mail:\nDenton TX 76203 | | McMains@unt.edu\n",
"From: jeffp@vetmed.wsu.edu (Jeff Parke)\nSubject: Re: Lyme vaccine\nOrganization: College of Veterinary Medicine WSU\nX-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL9]\nLines: 13\n\nkathleen richards (kilty@ucrengr) wrote:\n\n> If you have time to type it in I'd love to have the reference for that\n> paper! thanks!\n\nExperimental Lyme Disease in Dogs Produces Arthritis and Persistant Infection,\nThe Journal of Infectious Diseases, March 1993, 167:651-664\n\n--\nJeff Parke <jeffp@pgavin1.vetmed.wsu.edu>\nalso: jeffp@WSUVM1.bitnet AOL: JeffParke\nWashington State University College of Veterinary Medicine class of 1994\nPullman, WA 99164-7012\n",
'From: ab@nova.cc.purdue.edu (Allen B)\nSubject: Re: Fractals? what good are they?\nOrganization: Purdue University\nLines: 51\n\nIn article <7155@pdxgate.UUCP> idr@rigel.cs.pdx.edu (Ian D Romanick) writes:\n> One thing: a small change in initial conditions can cause a huge\n> change in final conditions. There are certain things about the way\n> the plate tektoniks and volcanic activity effect a land scape that\n> is, while not entirely random, unpredictable. This is also true with\n> fractals, so one could also conclude that you could model this\n> fractally. \n\nYeah, and it\'s also true most long complicated sequences of events,\ncalculations, or big computer programs in general. I don\'t argue\nthat you can get similar and maybe useful results from fractals, I\njust question whether you >should<.\n\nThe fractal fiends seem to be saying that any part of a system that we\ncan\'t model should be replaced with a random number generator. That\nhas been useful, for instance, in making data more palatable to human\nperception or for torture testing the rest of the system, but I don\'t\nthink it has much to do with fractals, and I certainly would rather\nthat the model be improved in a more explicable manner.\n\nI guess I just haven\'t seen all these earth-shaking fractal models\nthat explain and correlate to the universe as it actually exists. I\nreally hope I do, but I\'m not holding my self-similar breath.\n\n> There is one other thing that fractals are good for: fractal\n> image compression.\n\nUh huh. I\'ll believe it when I see it. I\'ve been chasing fractal\ncompression for a few years, and I still don\'t believe in it. If it\'s so\ngreat, how come we don\'t see it competing with JPEG? \'Cause it can\'t,\nI\'ll wager.\n\nActually, I have wagered, I quit trying to make fractal compression\nwork- and I was trying- because I don\'t think it\'s a reasonable\nalternative to other techniques. It is neat, though. :-)\n\nI\'ll reiterate my disbelief that everything is fractal. That\'s why I\ndon\'t think fractal compression as it is widely explained is\npractical. I know Barnsley and Sloan have some tricks up their\nsleeves that make their demos work, but I don\'t see anyone using it in a\nreal product. It\'s been six years since Iterated Systems was formed,\nright?\n\n\t"There are always going to be questions until there\'s a product\n\tout there," Sloan replies. The company plans to ship its first\n\tencoding devices in the summer, he says. In March, Iterated\n\tSystems will have the other half of the system: the decoders.\n\n\t\t- Scientific American, March 1990, page 77\n\nAllen B (Don\'t even get me started :-) )\n',
'From: atterlep@vela.acs.oakland.edu (Cardinal Ximenez)\nSubject: Re: A question that has bee bothering me.\nOrganization: National Association for the Disorganized\nLines: 29\n\nwquinnan@sdcc13.ucsd.edu (Malcusco) writes:\n\n>\tMy problem with Science is that often it allows us to\n>assume we know what is best for ourselves. God endowed us\n>with the ability to produce life through sexual relations,\n>for example, but He did not make that availible to everyone.\n>Does that mean that if Science can over-ride God\'s decision\n>through alterations, that God wills for us to have the power\n>to decide who should and should not be able to have \n>children? Should men be allowed to have babies, if that\n>is made possible.\n\n In a word, yes. I don\'t believe that physical knowledge has a great deal of\nimpact on the power of God. In the past, God gave us the ability to create\nlife through sexual relations. Now, he is giving us the ability to create life\nthrough in vitro fertilization. The difference between the two is merely \ncosmetic, and even if we gain the ability to create universes we won\'t begin to\napproach the glory of God.\n The power we are being given is a test, and I am sure that in many cases we\nwill use our new abilities unwisely. But, people have been using sexuality\nunwisely for millenia and I haven\'t heard an outcry to abolish it yet!\n No matter how far we extend our dominion over the physical world, we aren\'t\nimpinging on God\'s power. It\'s only when we attempt to gain control of the\nspiritual world, those things that can\'t be approached through science and \nlogic, that we begin to interfere with God.\n\nAlan Terlep\t\t\t\t "...and the scorpion says, \'it\'s \nOakland University, Rochester, MI\t\tin my nature.\'"\natterlep@vela.acs.oakland.edu\t\n',
'From: des@helix.nih.gov (David E. Scheim)\nSubject: Re: Burzynski\'s "Antineoplastons"\nOrganization: NIH\nLines: 58\n\nIn article <jschwimmer.123.735362184@wccnet.wcc.wesleyan.edu> jschwimmer@wccnet.wcc.wesleyan.edu (Josh Schwimmer) writes:\n\n>I\'ve recently listened to a tape by Dr. Stanislaw Burzynski, in which he \n>claims to have discovered a series naturally occuring peptides with anti-\n>cancer properties that he names antineoplastons. Burzynski says that his \n>work has met with hostility in the United States, despite the favorable \n>responses of his subjects during clinical trials.\n\n>What is the generally accepted opinion of Dr. Burzynski\'s research? He \n>paints himself as a lone researcher with a new breakthrough battling an \n>intolerant medical establishment, but I have no basis from which to judge \n>his claims. Two weeks ago, however, I read that the NIH\'s Department of \n>Alternative Medicine has decided to focus their attention on Burzynski\'s \n>work. Their budget is so small that I imagine they wouldn\'t investigate a \n>treatment that didn\'t seem promising.\n\n>Any opinions on Burzynski\'s antineoplastons or information about the current \n>status of his research would be appreciated.\n\n>--\n>Joshua Schwimmer\n>jschwimmer@eagle.wesleyan.edu\n\nThere\'s been extensive discussion on the CompuServe Cancer Forum about Dr. \nBurzynski\'s treatment as a result of the decision of a forum member\'s father \nto undertake his treatment for brain glioblastoma. This disease is \nuniversally and usually rapidly fatal. After diagnosis in June 1992, the \ntumor was growing rapidly despite radiation and chemotherapy. The forum \nmember checked extensively on Dr. Burzynki\'s track record for this disease. \nHe spoke to a few patients in complete remission for a few years from \nglioblastoma following this treatment and to an NCI oncologist who had \naudited other such case histories and found them valid and impressive. \nAfter the forum member\'s father began Dr. Burzynski\'s treatment in \nSeptember, all subsequent scans performed under the auspices of his \noncologist in Chicago have shown no tumor growth with possible signs of \nshrinkage or necrosis.\n\nThe patient\'s oncologist, although telling him he would probably not live \npast December 1992, was vehemently opposed to his trying Dr. Burzynski\'s \ntreatment. Since the tumor stopped its rapid growth under Dr. Burzynski\'s \ntreatment, she\'s since changed her attitude toward continuing these \ntreatments, saying "if it ain\'t broke, don\'t fix it."\n\nDr. Burzynski is an M.D., Ph.D. with a research background who found a \nprotein that is at very low serum levels in cancer patients, synthesized it, \nand administers it to patients with certain cancer types. There is little \nunderstanding of the actual mechanism of activity.\n\n/*********************************************************************/\n/* --- David E. Scheim --- */\n/* BITNET: none */\n/* INTERNET: desl@helix.nih.gov PHONE: 301 496-2194 */\n/* CompuServe: 73750,3305 FAX: 301 402-1065 */\n/* */\n/* DISCLAIMER: These comments are offered to share knowledge based */\n/* upon my personal views. They do not represent the positions */\n/* of my employer. */\n/*********************************************************************/\n',
'From: geb@cs.pitt.edu (Gordon Banks)\nSubject: Re: compartment syndrome - general information, references, etc.\nKeywords: compartment syndrome, blood clots\nReply-To: geb@cs.pitt.edu (Gordon Banks)\nOrganization: Univ. of Pittsburgh Computer Science\nLines: 20\n\nIn article <639@cfdd50.boeing.com> lry1219@cfdd50.boeing.com (Larry Yeagley) writes:\n>I have an acquaintance who has been diagnosed as having blood clots and\n>"compartment syndrome". I searched the latest edition of the Columbia medical\n>encyclopedia and found nothing. Mosby\'s medical dictionary gives a very brief\n>description which suggests it\'s an arterial condition. Can someone point me (an\n\nCompartment syndrome occurs when swelling happens in a "compartment"\nbounded by fascia. The pressure rises in the compartment and blood\nsupply and nerves are compromised. The treatment is to open the\ncompartment surgically. THe most common places for compartment\nsyndromes are the forearm and calf. It is an emergency, since\nif the pressure is not relieved, stuff will die.\n\n\n\n-- \n----------------------------------------------------------------------------\nGordon Banks N3JXP | "Skepticism is the chastity of the intellect, and\ngeb@cadre.dsl.pitt.edu | it is shameful to surrender it too soon." \n----------------------------------------------------------------------------\n',
"From: Patrick C Leger <pl1u+@andrew.cmu.edu>\nSubject: It's all Mary's fault!\nOrganization: Sophomore, Electrical and Computer Engineering, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA\nLines: 23\nNNTP-Posting-Host: po5.andrew.cmu.edu\n\nYou know, it just occurred to me today that this whole Christian thing\ncan be blamed solely on Mary.\n\nSo, she's married to Joseph. She gets knocked up. What do you think\nol' Joe will do if he finds she's been getting around? So Mary comes up\nwith this ridiculous story about God making her pregnant. Actually, it\ncan't be all THAT ridiculous, considering the number of people that\nbelieve it. Anyway, she never tells anyone the truth, and even tells\npoor little Jesus that he's hot shit, the Son of God. Everyone else\ntells him this too, since they've bought Mary's story. So, what does\nMary actually turn out to be? An adultress and a liar, and the cause of\nmankind's greatest folly...\n\nJust my recently-minted two cents.\n\nChris\n\n----------------------\nChris Leger\nSophomore, Carnegie Mellon Computer Engineering\nRemember...if you don't like what somebody is saying, you can always\nignore them!\n\n",
'From: geb@cs.pitt.edu (Gordon Banks)\nSubject: Re: Eugenics\nReply-To: geb@cs.pitt.edu (Gordon Banks)\nOrganization: Univ. of Pittsburgh Computer Science\nLines: 15\n\nProbably within 50 years, a new type of eugenics will be possible.\nMaybe even sooner. We are now mapping the human genome. We will\nthen start to work on manipulation of that genome. Using genetic\nengineering, we will be able to insert whatever genes we want.\nNo breeding, no "hybrids", etc. The ethical question is, should\nwe do this? Should we make a race of disease-free, long-lived,\nArnold Schwartzenegger-muscled, supermen? Even if we can.\n\n\n\n-- \n----------------------------------------------------------------------------\nGordon Banks N3JXP | "Skepticism is the chastity of the intellect, and\ngeb@cadre.dsl.pitt.edu | it is shameful to surrender it too soon." \n----------------------------------------------------------------------------\n',
"From: sdr@llnl.gov (Dakota)\nSubject: Re: HELP for Kidney Stones ..............\nOrganization: Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory, NCD\nLines: 30\nNNTP-Posting-Host: eet1477-10780-t1477r1104.llnl.gov\n\nIn article <1993Apr21.143910.5826@wvnvms.wvnet.edu> \npk115050@wvnvms.wvnet.edu writes:\n> My girlfriend is in pain from kidney stones. She says that because she \nhas no\n> medical insurance, she cannot get them removed.\n> \n> My question: Is there any way she can treat them herself, or at least \nmitigate\n> their effects? Any help is deeply appreciated. (Advice, referral to \nliterature,\n> etc...)\n> \n> Thank you,\n> \n> Dave Carvell\n> pk115050@wvnvms.wvnet.edu\n\nFirst, let me offer you my condolences. I've had kidney stones 4 times \nand I know the pain she is going through. First, it is best that she see \na doctor. However, every time I had kidney stones, I saw my doctor and the\nonly thing they did was to prescribe some pain killers and medication for a\nurinary tract infection. The pain killers did nothing for me...kidney stones\nare extremely painful. My stones were judged passable, so we just waited it\nout. However the last one took 10 days to pass...not fun. Anyway, if she\nabsolutely won't see a doctor, I suggest drinking lots of fluids and perhaps\nan over the counter sleeping pill. But, I do highly suggest seeing a doctor.\nKidney stones are not something to fool around with. She should be x-rayed \nto make sure there is not a serious problem.\n\nSteve\n",
'From: ddeciacco@cix.compulink.co.uk (David Deciacco)\nSubject: Re: Another CVIEW question (wa\nReply-To: ddeciacco@cix.compulink.co.uk\nLines: 5\n\n\nIn-Reply-To: <20APR199312262902@rigel.tamu.edu> lmp8913@rigel.tamu.edu (PRESTON, LISA M)\n\nI have a trident card and fullview works real gif jpg try it#\ndave\n',
"From: livesey@solntze.wpd.sgi.com (Jon Livesey)\nSubject: Re: Jews can't hide from keith@cco.\nOrganization: sgi\nLines: 36\nNNTP-Posting-Host: solntze.wpd.sgi.com\n\nIn article <1993Apr3.071823.13253@bmerh85.bnr.ca>, dgraham@bmers30.bnr.ca (Douglas Graham) writes:\n|> In article <1pj2b6$aaa@fido.asd.sgi.com> livesey@solntze.wpd.sgi.com (Jon Livesey) writes:\n|> >In article <1993Apr3.033446.10669@bmerh85.bnr.ca>, dgraham@bmers30.bnr.ca (Douglas Graham) writes:\n|> >|>Er, Jon, what Ken said was:\n|> >|> \n|> >|> There have previously been people like you in your country. Unfortunately,\n|> >|> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^\n|> >|> most Jews did not survive.\n|> >|> \n|> >|>That sure sounds to me like Ken is accusing the guy of being a Nazi.\n|> >\n\n[my previous posting deleted]\n\n|> \n|> Yes, yes. This is a perfectly fine rant, and I agree with it completely.\n|> But what does it have to do with anything? The issue at hand here\n|> is whether or not Ken accused the fellow from Germany of being a\n|> Nazi. I grant that he did not explicity make this accusation, but\n|> he came pretty damn close. He is certainly accusing the guy of\n|> sympathizing with those who would like to exterminate the Jews, and\n|> that's good enough for me.\n\nThe poster casually trashed two thousand years of Jewish history, and \nKen replied that there had previously been people like him in Germany.\n\nThat's right. There have been. There have also been people who\nwere formally Nazis. But the Nazi party would have gone nowhere\nwithout the active and tacit support of the ordinary man in the\nstreet who behaved as though casual anti-semitism was perfectly\nacceptable.\n\nNow what exactly don't you understand about what I wrote, and why\ndon't you see what it has to do with the matter at hand?\n\njon.\n",
'From: maridai@comm.mot.com (Marida Ignacio)\nSubject: Re: What WAS the immaculate conception?\nOrganization: trunking_fixed\nLines: 111\n\nNote: I am cross-posting (actually, emailing) this to \nbit.listserv.catholic while main posting goes to \nsoc.religion.christian.\n\n[Quotations omitted. This is in response to a question about\nthe Immaculate Conception. I explained it, but left justification\nup to our Catholic readers. --clh]\n\nThere is no direct reference in the Holy Scripture except for the\nmention of Mary\'s _blessedness_/full of grace in the "Annunciation" by\nAngel Gabriel in Luke 1:26-28\n\n And in the 6th month the angel Gabriel was sent from God unto\n a city of Galilee, named Nazareth. To a virgin espoused to a\n man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David; and the virgin\'s\n name was Mary. And the angel came unto her and said, _"Hail,\n thou that art highly favoured, the Lord is with thee: blessed\n art thou among women."_\n\nNow, now, hold that line of thought - "the Lord is with Mary &\nblessed art thou among women" - while you read on....\n\nIn the book, "First Lady of the World, A Popular History of\nDevotion to Mary" by Peter Lappin:\n\nThe _Immaculate Conception_ matter is really far more complicated\nthan the _Assumption_. This arose in 430 AD. It is quite possible\nthat the feast of _Mary\'s Conception_ under the title "The Conception\nof Saint Anne", originally commemorated the _physical miracle_ of\na woman _beyond the age_ of child bearing, conceiving a daughter,\njust as Elizabeth had conceived John the Baptist. A transfer in\nemphasis from the physical miracle wrought in Anne to the miracle\nof grace wrought by God in the soul of Mary was _logical_. Mary\nis the incorruptible timber "out of which was hewn the _tabernacle_\nof Christ\'s sinless body"; she is "God\'s Eden, in whom there is\nno tree of knowledge, and no serpent that harms." Her perfect\nbeauty and spotlessness find their exemplar in Christ, her\npurity in that of the Father. At the time of the Council of Ephesus,\nshe was hailed as "innocent, without blemish, immaculate, inviolate,\nspotless, holy in soul and body, who was blessed as a lily from\namong thorns, unlearned in the evil ways of Eve".\n...\nAt the end of the thirteenth century, an Irish Franciscan,\nJohn Duns Scotus (1266-1308),...God maintained that it was a \ngreater thing for Him to preserve His (the Son) mother from all\nsin _than to use His power to clease her from it later_.\n...\n\nNow let\'s go to the discussion of baptism and original sin.\nFrom "Pocket Catholic Cathechism" by John A. Hardon:\n\nBaptism -\nConcupiscence Remains after Baptism.\nConcupiscence or the tendency to sin remains in the baptized\nbut since it is left to provide trial, it has no power to\ninjure those who do not consent and who by the grace of\nChrist Jesus, manfully resist (Canon 5).\n\nOriginal gifts of Adam and Eve before their fall:\nIn the light of the foregoing, we see that our first\nparents were originally gifted three times over:\n-They had the natural gifts of human beings especially the\n power to think and to choose freely.\n-The had the _preternatural_ gifts of bodily immortality\n and of integrity, or the internal power to control desires.\n-They had the _supernatural_ gifts of sanctifying grace,\n the virtues of faith, hope, and charity and the corresponding\n title to enter heaven.\nBy their disobedience, they lost the _supernatural and\npreternatural_ gifts entirely, and were weakened (without\nlosing) their natural capacity to reason and to choose\nfreely.\n\nBaptism restores the _supernatural_ life lost by Adam\'s\nsin. It _does not_ restore the _preternatural_ gifts\nbut gifts as a title to a glorified restoration of our\nbodies on the last day...\n\nGoing back to _Immaculate Conception_\n(I am not sure if this interpretation is in any other\nbooks but it may be another contribution to the \'puzzle\'):\n\nGiven the miracle of St. Anne bearing a child at a\nnon-childbearing age, AND Christ was not yet born \nAND _there was no baptism yet_ on Mary\'s birth but\nSTILL, the Angel Gabriel\'s greetings was:\n"Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with you.\nBlessed art thou amongst women".\n\nEven Mary was confused about this greeting.\n\nMary could very well have possessed all of the\n_treefold original gifts above_ given to our first\nparents (Adam and Eve before their sin):\n Hail Mary (Example of praise given by the Angel Gabriel)\n Full of grace (natural, preternatural, supernatural)\n The Lord is with you (At those times, God would\n definitely want to be with those He\n has made _blessed_)\n Blessed art thou amongst women (that says it all)\n\nAt the conception, God made Mary _full of grace\nand blessed_ as the \'tabernacle\' for the coming body\nof Christ and so,\n\nImmaculate Conception of Mary is true and Mary still\nhas maintained her Immaculate Heart. \n\n-Marida\n(P.S. I do hope that others will continue more\n light and facts on this matter. Thanks.)\n',
"From: mcovingt@aisun3.ai.uga.edu (Michael Covington)\nSubject: Re: Frequent nosebleeds\nNntp-Posting-Host: aisun3.ai.uga.edu\nOrganization: AI Programs, University of Georgia, Athens\nLines: 17\n\nIn article <9304191126.AA21125@seastar.seashell> bebmza@sru001.chvpkh.chevron.com (Beverly M. Zalan) writes:\n>\n>My 6 year son is so plagued. Lots of vaseline up his nose each night seems \n>to keep it under control. But let him get bopped there, and he'll recur for \n>days! Also allergies, colds, dry air all seem to contribute. But again, the \n>vaseline, or A&D ointment, or neosporin all seem to keep them from recurring.\n>\nIf you can get it, you might want to try a Canadian over-the-counter product\ncalled Secaris, which is a water-soluble gel. Compared to Vaseline or other\ngreasy ointments, Secaris seems more compatible with the moisture that's\nalready there.\n\n-- \n:- Michael A. Covington, Associate Research Scientist : *****\n:- Artificial Intelligence Programs mcovingt@ai.uga.edu : *********\n:- The University of Georgia phone 706 542-0358 : * * *\n:- Athens, Georgia 30602-7415 U.S.A. amateur radio N4TMI : ** *** ** <><\n",
"From: keith@cco.caltech.edu (Keith Allan Schneider)\nSubject: Re: Political Atheists?\nOrganization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena\nLines: 12\nNNTP-Posting-Host: lloyd.caltech.edu\n\ndace@shrike.und.ac.za (Roy Dace) writes:\n\n>Keith Allan Schneider (keith@cco.caltech.edu) wrote:\n\n>Some soldiers are dependent on religion, for a number of purposes.\n>And some are no doubt dependent on cocaine, yet I don't see the military paying\n>for coca fields.\n\nWhile religion certainly has some benefits in a combat situation, what are\nthe benefits of cocaine?\n\nkeith\n",
"From: npm@netcom.com (Nancy P. Milligan)\nSubject: Re: Need advice with doctor-patient relationship problem\nOrganization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)\nLines: 15\nX-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]\n\nI'd dump him. Rude is rude and it seems he enjoys belittling and\nhumiliating you. But don't just dump him, write to him and tell\nhim why you are firing him. If you can, think about sending a copy\nof your letter to whoever is in charge of the clinic where he works, \nif applicable, or maybe even to the AMA. Don't be vindictive in\nyour letter, be truthful but VERY firm.\n\nBut don't be a victim and just put up with it. Take control! It'll\nmake you feel great!\n\nNancy M.\n-- \nNancy P. Milligan\t\t\t\t\tnpm@netcom.com\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t or\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\tnpm@dale.cts.com\n",
"From: sandvik@newton.apple.com (Kent Sandvik)\nSubject: Re: free moral agency\nDistribution: na\nOrganization: Cookamunga Tourist Bureau\nLines: 20\n\nIn article <C5pxqs.LM5@darkside.osrhe.uoknor.edu>, bil@okcforum.osrhe.edu\n(Bill Conner) wrote:\n> As for your question of moral free-agency, given the Christian\n> position above, the freedom we have is to acknowledge God. The\n> morality we practice is a direct outgrowth of how we excercise that\n> freedom. You are free to ignore God in the same way you are free to\n> ignore gravity and the consequences are inevitable and well known\n> in both cases. That an atheist can't accept the evidence means only\n> that he prefers not to accept it, it says nothing about the evidence\n> itself. \n\nI agree, I had a hard feeling not believing my grand-grand mother\nwho told me of elves dancing outside barns in the early mornings.\nI preferred not to accept it, even if her statement provided\nthe truth itself. Life is hard.\n\nCheers,\nKent\n---\nsandvik@newton.apple.com. ALink: KSAND -- Private activities on the net.\n",
"From: stgprao@st.unocal.COM (Richard Ottolini)\nSubject: Re: Krillean Photography\nOrganization: Unocal Corporation\nLines: 20\n\nLiving things maintain small electric fields to (1) enhance certain\nchemical reactions, (2) promote communication of states with in a cell,\n(3) communicate between cells (of which the nervous system is a specialized\nexample), and perhaps other uses. These electric fields change with location\nand time in a large organism. Special photographic techniques such as applying\nexternal fields in Kirillian photography interact with these fields or the resistances\ncaused by these fields to make interesting pictures. Perhaps such pictures will\nbe diagonistic of disease problems in organisms when better understood. Perhaps not.\n\nStudying the overall electric activity of biological systems is several hundred\nyears old, but not a popular activity. Perhaps, except in the case of a few\ntissues like nerves and the electric senses of fishes, it is hard to reduce the\ninvestigation into small pieces that can be clearly analyzed. There are some\nhints that manipulating electric fields is a useful therapy such as speeding\nthe healing of broken bones, but not understood why.\n\nBioelectricity has a long association with mysticism. Ideas such as Frankenstein\nreanimation go back to the most early electrical experiments on tissue such as\nwhen Volta invented the battery. I personally don't care to revert to supernatural\ncause to explain things we don't yet understand.\n",
"From: PETCH@gvg47.gvg.tek.com (Chuck)\nSubject: Daily Verse\nLines: 6\n\nAnd the Lord's servant must not quarrel; instead, he must be kind to everyone,\nable to teach, not resentful. Those who oppose him he must gently instruct, in\nthe hope that God will grant them repentance leading them to a knowledge of the\ntruth, and that they will come to their senses and escape from the trap of the\ndevil, who has taken them captive to do his will. \nIITimothy 2:24-26\n",
'From: Eugene.Bigelow@ebay.sun.com (Geno )\nSubject: Re: The doctrine of Original Sin\nReply-To: Eugene.Bigelow@ebay.sun.com\nOrganization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.\nLines: 14\n\n[4) "Nothing unclean shall enter [heaven]" (Rev. 21.27). Therefore,\nbabies are born in such a state that should they die, they are cuf off\nfrom God and put in hell, which is exactly the doctrine of St. Augustine\nand St. Thomas. Of coures, having only original sins on thier souls,\nthey suffer the lightest punishment, the loss of the vision oand\npresence of God, but that does not change the undeniable fact that they\ncannot possibly come to a forgivenss of original sin, nor can they\ninherit eternal life. "That," as St. Augustine said, "Is what the\nPelagian heretics taught." Which is why he said later, "If you want to\nbe a Christian, do not teach that unbaptized infants can come to a\nforgivenss of original sin."]\n\nDoesn\'t the Bible say that God is a fair god? If this is true, how can this\npossibly be fair to the infants?\n',
'From: bed@intacc.uucp (Deb Waddington)\nSubject: INFO NEEDED: Gaucher\'s Disease\nDistribution: Everywhere\nExpires: 01 Jun 93\nReply-To: bed@intacc.UUCP (Deb Waddington)\nOrganization: Matrix Artists\' Network\nLines: 33\n\n\nI have a 42 yr old male friend, misdiagnosed as having\n osteopporosis for two years, who recently found out that his\n illness is the rare Gaucher\'s disease. \n\nGaucher\'s disease symptoms include: brittle bones (he lost 9 \n inches off his hieght); enlarged liver and spleen; internal\n bleeding; and fatigue (all the time). The problem (in Type 1) is\n attributed to a genetic mutation where there is a lack of the\n enzyme glucocerebroside in macrophages so the cells swell up.\n This will eventually cause death.\n\nEnyzme replacement therapy has been successfully developed and\n approved by the FDA in the last few years so that those patients\n administered with this drug (called Ceredase) report a remarkable\n improvement in their condition. Ceredase, which is manufactured\n by biotech biggy company--Genzyme--costs the patient $380,000\n per year. Gaucher\'s disease has justifyably been called "the most\n expensive disease in the world".\n\nNEED INFO:\nI have researched Gaucher\'s disease at the library but am relying\n on netlanders to provide me with any additional information:\n**news, stories, reports\n**people you know with this disease\n**ideas, articles about Genzyme Corp, how to get a hold of\n enough money to buy some, programs available to help with\n costs.\n**Basically ANY HELP YOU CAN OFFER\n\nThanks so very much!\n\nDeborah \n',
'From: I3150101@dbstu1.rz.tu-bs.de (Benedikt Rosenau)\nSubject: Re: Biblical Rape\nOrganization: Technical University Braunschweig, Germany\nLines: 14\n\nIn article <1993Apr05.174537.14962@watson.ibm.com>\nstrom@Watson.Ibm.Com (Rob Strom) writes:\n \n>\n>In article <16BA7F16C.I3150101@dbstu1.rz.tu-bs.de>, I3150101@dbstu1.rz.tu-bs.de (Benedikt Rosenau) writes:\n>\n>I didn\'t have time to read the rest of the posting, but\n>I had to respond to this.\n>\n>I am absolutely NOT a "Messianic Jew".\n>\n \nAnother mistake. Sorry, I should have read alt.,messianic more carefully.\n Benedikt\n',
'From: ch381@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (James K. Black)\nSubject: NEEDED: algorithms for 2-d & 3-d object recognition\nOrganization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)\nLines: 23\nReply-To: ch381@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (James K. Black)\nNNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu\n\n\nHi,\n I have a friend who is working on 2-d and 3-d object recognition. He is looking\nfor references describing algorithms on the following subject areas:\n\nThresholding\nEdge Segmentation\nMarr-Hildreth\nSobel Operator\nChain Codes\nThinning - Skeletonising\n\nIf anybody is willing to post an algorithm that they have implemented which demonstrates\nany of the above topics, it would be much appreciated.\n\nPlease post all replies to my e-mail address. If requested I will post a summary to the\nnewsgroup in a couple of weeks.\n\n\nThanks in advance for all replies\n\nJames\neb192@city.ac.uk\n',
'From: lusardi@cs.buffalo.edu (Christopher Lusardi)\nSubject: Looking for Mr. radon\nOrganization: State University of New York at Buffalo/Comp Sci\nLines: 9\nNntp-Posting-Host: homam.cs.buffalo.edu\n\nDoes anyone have a radon transform in C that they could \nsend me?\n\n\t\t\t\tAny help accepted,\n-- \n| .-, ###|For a lot of .au music: ftp sounds.sdsu.edu\n| / / __ , _ ###|then cat file.au > /dev/audio\n| \\_>/ >_/ (_/\\_/<>_ |UB library catalog:telnet bison.acsu.buffalo.edu\n|_ 14261 _|(When in doubt ask: xarchie, xgopher, or xwais.)\n',
'From: mserv@mozart.cc.iup.edu (Mail Server)\nSubject: Re: cause\nLines: 38\n\ntrajan@cwis.unomaha.edu (Stephen McIntyre) writes:\n>norris@athena.mit.edu writes:\n> [some stuff deleted]\n>> Fortunately for the convenience of us believers, there is a class of\n>> questions that can never be reduced away by natural science. For\n>> example: why does the universe exist at all? \n> \n>Must there be a "why" to this? I ask because of what you also\n> assume about God-- namely, that He just exists, with no "why"\n> to His existence. So the question is reversed, "Why can\'t\n> we assume the universe just exists as you assume God to\n> "just exist"? Why must there be a "why" to the universe?"\n[remainder of message deleted]\n\nPardon me for replying to only a portion of your message :)\n\nThe reason we can say "God just exists" and can\'t say "The universe just \nexists" is because the universe is a natural realm and is subject to natural \nlaws in general and the law of cause and effect in particular. That is, we \nobserve in nature that every cause has an effect, and every effect was produced \nby a cause. The existence of the natural realm, as an effect itself, cannot be \nits own cause; it must therefore have a supernatural cause.\n\nGod, on the other hand, is a supernatural being, and is therefore not subject \nto such natural laws as the law of cause and effect. As a supernatural being, \nGod\'s eternal existence does not imply a previous cause the way the existence \nof a physical, natural cosmos does. Thus, those who believe in the \nsupernatural have a valid basis for accepting the existence of uncaused \nphenomena such as the eternal God, whereas those who deny the existence of the \nsupernatural are faced with the dilemma of a physical universe whose very \nnature shows that it is not sufficient to explain its own existence.\n\nThis is, of course, an oversimplification of a complex topic, but I just wanted \nto clarify some important differences between the supernatural (God) and the \nnatural (the universe), since you seem to mistake them as being \ninterchangeable.\n\n- Mark\n',
'From: gt7122b@prism.gatech.edu (boundary)\nSubject: Re: The arrogance of Christians\nOrganization: Georgia Institute of Technology\nLines: 55\n\ndleonar@andy.bgsu.edu (Pixie) writes:\n> Unfaithfully yours,\n> Pixie\n> p.s. If you do sincerely believe that a god exists, why do you follow\n>it blindly? \n> Do the words "Question Authority" mean anything to you?\n> I defy any theist to reply. \n\nDear Defiant (or Unfaithful or Pixie):\n\nI will take up the challenge to reply, as I am a theist.\n\nThe foundation for faith in God is reason, without which the existence\nof God could not be proven. That His existence can be proven by reason\nis indisputable (cf. my short treatise, "Traditional Proofs for the \nExistence of God," and Summa Theologica).\n\nNow, given that God exists, and that His existence can be proven by reason,\nI assert that His commands must be followed blindly, although in our fallen\ncondition we must always have some measure of doubt about our faith. Why?\n\nBecause God is the First Cause of all things, the First Mover of matter,\nthe Independent Thing that requires nothing else for its existence, the\nMeasure of all that is perfect, and the essential Being who gives order\nto the universe (logos).\n\nI next assert that God is all good. If this is so, then that which is\ncontrary to the will of God is evil; i.e., the absence of the good. And,\nsince God can never contradict Himself, then by His promise of a Savior\nas early as the Protoevangelium of Genesis 3:5, God instructs that because\na human (Adam) was first responsible for man\'s alienation from the Source\nof all good, a man would be required to act to restore the friendship.\nThus God became incarnate in the person of the Messiah.\n\nNow this Messiah claimed that He is the Truth (John 14:6). If this claim\nis true, then we are bound by reason to follow Him, who is truth incarnate.\n\nYou next seem to have a problem with authority. Have you tried the United\nStates Marine Corps yet? I can tell you first-hand that it is an excellent\ninstructor in authority. If you have not yet had the privilege, I will\nreply that the authority which is Truth Incarnate may never be questioned,\nand thus must be followed blindly. One may NOT deny the truth. For\nexample, when the proverbial apple fell on Isaac Newton\'s head, he could\nhave denied that it happened, but he did not. The laws of physics must\nbe obeyed whether a human likes them or not. They are true. \n\nTherefore, the Authority which is Truth may not be denied.\n\nQED\n \n-- \nboundary\n\nno teneis que pensar que yo haya venido a traer la paz a la tierra; no he\nvenido a traer la paz, sino la guerra (Mateo 10:34, Vulgata Latina) \n',
'From: keith@cco.caltech.edu (Keith Allan Schneider)\nSubject: Re: Political Atheists?\nOrganization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena\nLines: 57\nNNTP-Posting-Host: lloyd.caltech.edu\n\nmmwang@adobe.com (Michael Wang) writes:\n\n>I was looking for a rigorous definition because otherwise we would be\n>spending the rest of our lives arguing what a "Christian" really\n>believes.\n\nI don\'t think we need to argue about this.\n\n>KS>Do you think that the motto points out that this country is proud\n>KS>of its freedom of religion, and that this is something that\n>KS>distinguishes us from many other countries?\n>MW>No.\n>KS>Well, your opinion is not shared by most people, I gather.\n>Perhaps not, but that is because those seeking to make government\n>recognize Christianity as the dominant religion in this country do not\n>think they are infringing on the rights of others who do not share\n>their beliefs.\n\nYes, but also many people who are not trying to make government recognize\nChristianity as the dominant religion in this country do no think\nthe motto infringes upon the rights of others who do not share their\nbeliefs.\n\nAnd actually, I think that the government already does recognize that\nChristianity is the dominant religion in this country. I mean, it is.\nDon\'t you realize/recognize this?\n\nThis isn\'t to say that we are supposed to believe the teachings of\nChristianity, just that most people do.\n\n>Like I\'ve said before I personally don\'t think the motto is a major\n>concern.\n\nIf you agree with me, then what are we discussing?\n\n>KS>Since most people don\'t seem to associate Christmas with Jesus much\n>KS>anymore, I don\'t see what the problem is.\n>Can you prove your assertion that most people in the U.S. don\'t\n>associate Christmas with Jesus anymore?\n\nNo, but I hear quite a bit about Christmas, and little if anything about\nJesus. Wouldn\'t this figure be more prominent if the holiday were really\nassociated to a high degree with him? Or are you saying that the\nassociation with Jesus is on a personal level, and that everyone thinks\nabout it but just never talks about it?\n\nThat is, can *you* prove that most people *do* associate Christmas\nmost importantly with Jesus?\n\n>Anyways, the point again is that there are people who do associate\n>Christmas with Jesus. It doesn\'t matter if these people are a majority\n>or not.\n\nI think the numbers *do* matter. It takes a majority, or at least a\nmajority of those in power, to discriminate. Doesn\'t it?\n\nkeith\n',
'From: heath@athena.cs.uga.edu (Terrance Heath)\nSubject: Re: Pantheism & Environmentalism\nOrganization: University of Georgia, Athens\nLines: 14\n\nIn article <Apr.11.01.02.34.1993.17784@athos.rutgers.edu> Steve.Hayes@f22.n7101.z5.fidonet.org writes:\n\n\tI realize I\'m entering this discussion rather late, but I do\nhave one question. Wasn\'t it a Reagan appointee, James Watt, a\npentacostal christian (I think) who was the secretary of the interior\nwho saw no problem with deforestation since we were "living in the\nlast days" and ours would be the last generation to see the redwoods\nanyway?\n\n-- \nTerrance Heath\t\t\t\theath@athena.cs.uga.edu\n******************************************************************\nYOUR COMFORT IS MY SILENCE!!!!! ACT-UP! FIGHT BACK! TALK BACK!\n******************************************************************\n',
'From: scrowe@hemel.bull.co.uk (Simon Crowe)\nSubject: Point within a polygon\nSummary: Algorithm to find if a point is bound by a polygon\nKeywords: point, polygon\nNntp-Posting-Host: bogart\nOrganization: Bull HN UK\nLines: 7\n\nI am looking for an algorithm to determine if a given point is bound by a \npolygon. Does anyone have any such code or a reference to book containing\ninformation on the subject ?\n\n\t\tRegards\n\n\t\t\tSimon\n',
'From: dlecoint@garnet.acns.fsu.edu (Darius_Lecointe)\nSubject: Re: Revelations\nOrganization: Florida State University\nLines: 11\n\nhudson@athena.cs.uga.edu (Paul Hudson Jr) writes:\n\n> Biblical prophecy tends to be somewhat cyclical. For example, the virgin\n> prophecy of Isaiah also prophecied of Christ. How does this apply to the \n> book of Revelation in regard to the perterist view?\n\nMuch of the OT prophecies have a double application: to the Jewish\ncaptivity, and to the end of time. But if Rev. is dated at AD96 its\nprophecies could not apply to the AD70 destructioin of Jerusalem.\n\nDarius\n',
'From: bcash@crchh410.NoSubdomain.NoDomain (Brian Cash)\nSubject: Re: some thoughts.\nNntp-Posting-Host: crchh410\nOrganization: BNR, Inc.\nLines: 4\n\nI\'m sold! Where do I sign up?\n\n\nBrian /-|-\\ The next book: "Charles Manson: Lord, Lunatic, or Liar"\n',
'From: db7n+@andrew.cmu.edu (D. Andrew Byler)\nSubject: The Nicene Creed (was Re: MAJOR VIEWS OF THE TRINITY)\nOrganization: Freshman, Civil Engineering, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA\nLines: 152\n\nMichael Bushnell writes;\n\n>The so-called Creed of Athanasius, however, has always been a Western\n>creed, and has always had the filioque. The Orthodox have said that\n>they accept all that it says, with the exception of the filioque, but\n>it is not "in use."\n\nWhich is exactly what I pointed out. (Though I was wrong about your use\nof the Creed, the 1913 Catholic Encylcopedia in which I read about it\nsaid the Orthodox do use the Creed minus the filioque. Apparently that\nhas changed.) The Athanasian Creed has always had the Filioque, the\nNicene - Constantinopolitan did not.\n\tOf course the Orthodox did not delete the Filioque from the Nicene\nCreed (it wasn\'t there to begin with), but they certainly did from the\nAthanasian Creed, which did have it from the beginning.\n\tI might point out that the whole problem started over the difference in\nways of explaining the generation of the Blessed Trinity, the East\nemphasizing the idea of the Holy Spirit proceeding from the Father\nthrough the Son, and the West using proceeding from the Father and the\nSon. In fact, some, such as Tertullian, used both formulations (see\nbelow)\n\n\t"Following, therefore, the form of these examples, I profess that I do\ncall God and His Word, - the Father and and His Son, - two. For the\nroot and the stem are two things, but conjoined; the fountain and the\nriver are two kinds, but indivisible; the sun and the ray are two forms,\nbut coherent ones. Anything which proceeds from another must\nnecessarily be a second to that from which it proceeds; but it is not on\nthat account separated from it. Where there is second, however, there\nare two; and where ther is third, there are three. The Spirit, then, is\nthird from God and the Son, just as the third from the root is the fruit\nof the stem, and third from the fountain is the stream from the river,\nand thrid from the sun is the apex of the ray."\n\t-Tertullian, Against Praxeas, 8, 5 (about 213 AD)\n\nand\n\n\t"I believe that the Spirit proceeds not otherwise than from the Father\nthrough the Son"\n\t-Tertullian, Against Praxeas, 4, 1 (about 213 AD)\n\nAnd as St. Thomas showed in his Summa Theologica Part 1, Question 36,\nArticles 2 and 3, there is no contradiction between the two methods of\ngeneration, and in fact, the two methods of reckoning the procession\nemphasize what St. Augustine, among others taught, that the Holy Spirit\nproceeds from the Father and the Son, but He proceeds from the Father in\na more preeminent way.\n\n\t"For whatever the Son has, He has from the Father, certainly He has it\nfrom the Father that the Holy Spirit proceeds from Him ... For the\nFather alone is not from another, for which reason He alone is called\nunbegotten, not, indeed, in the Scriptures, but in the practice of\ntheologians, and of those who employ such terms as they are able in a\nmatter so great. The Son, however, is born of the Father; and the Holy\nSpirit proceeds principally from the Father, and since the Father gives\nto the Son all that He has without any interval of time, the Holy Spirit\nproceeds jointly from both Father and Son. He would be called Son of\nthe Father and of the Son if, which is abhorent to everyone of sound\nmind, they had both begotten Him. The Spirit was not begotten by each,\nhowever, but proceeds from each and both."\n\t-St. Augustine of Hippo, The Trinity, 15, 26, 47 (400 to 416 AD)\n\nSo, in a sense, all of the formulations are correct (to the West at\nleast), because the Holy Spirit proceeds from both Father and Son, but\nin proceeding from the Son, the orgin of that procession is the\nprocession from the Father, so the Holy Spirit is proceeding from the\nFather through the Son, but as all that the Son has is from the Father,\nthe Holy Spirit can be said to proceed from the Father, without any\nmention of the Son being necessary.\n\tIn any case, I am happy to know that I follow in the beliefs of Pope\nSt. Leo I, St. Fulgence of Ruspe, St. Cyril of Alexandria, Pope St.\nDamsus I, St. Augustine of Hippo, St. Epiphanius of Salamis, St. Ambrose\nof Milan, St. Hilary of Poitiers, Tertullian, and others among the\nFathers, who all have very quotable quotes supporting the Catholic\nposition, which I enunciated above.\n\tAs for the issue of the adoption of another Creed being forbidden, I\nwill point out that the Holy Fathers of Ephesus and Chalcedon both spoke\nof the Creed of Nicea in their statement forbidding anyone "to produce,\nwrite, or compose a confession of faith other than the one defined by\nthe Fathers of Nicea." That Creed is a different Creed than that of\nConstantinople, which is commonly called the Nicene Creed. Not of\ncourse in that they were condemning the adoption of the\nConstantinopolitan Creed, which is but an enlargement upon the Creed of\nNicea, but that they were condemning the impious opinions of Nestorious,\nwho had adopted a radically different Creed from the one used by the\nChurch, which among other things denied the procession of the Holy\nSpirit form the Son. Thus, the additions of the Constantinopolitan\nCreed were not thought to be in violation of this, and as the Council\nChalcedon also affirmed the doctrine of the procession of the Holy\nSpirit from the Son, which Nestorius denied, they could hardly have been\nagainst explaining in a fuller way the Creed, for they themselves\napproved of previous additions to it. And if the further explanations\nof the Creed made in Constantinople were not denigrating of the work\ndone by the Holy Fathers of Nicea or in any way heretical, it follows\nthat the Council of Toledo was fully able to add what was not disputed\nby the faithful to the Creed so as to combat the impieties of the Arians\nin Spain, because the filioque was not in dispute in the Church until\nmany years later under Photius and others. And that the filioque was\nnot disputed, I provide more quotes below.\n\n\t"Since the Holy Spirit when he is in us effects our being conformed to\nGod, and he actually proceeds from the Father and Son, it is abundantly\nclear that He is of the divine essence, in it in essence and proceeding\nfrom it."\n\t-St. Cyril of Alexandria, The Treasury of the Holy and Consubstantial\nTrinity, Thesis 34, (423-425 AD)\n\n\t"The Holy Spirit is not of the Father only, or of the Son only, but he\nis the Spirit of the Father and the Son. For it is written: `If anyone\nloves the world, the Spirit of the Father is not in him\'; and again it\nis written: `If anyone, however, does not have the Spirit of Christ, he\nis none of His.\' When the Father and the Son are named in this way, the\nHoly Spirit is understood, of whom the Son himself says in the Gospel,\nthat the Holy Spirit `proceeds from the Father,\' and that `He shall\nreceive of mine and shall announce it to you.\'"\n\t-Pope St. Damasus I, The Decree of Damasus, 1 (382 AD)\n\n\t"The only-begotten Holy Spirit has neither the name of the Son nor the\nappelation of Father, but is called Holy Spirit, and is not foreign to\nthe Father. For the Only-begotten Himself calls Him: `the Spirit of the\nFather,\' and says of Him the `He proceeds from the Father,\' and `will\nreceive of mine,\' so that He is reckoned as not being foreign to the\nSon, but is of their same substance, of the same Godhead; He is Spirit\ndivine, ... of God, and He is God. For he is Spirit of God, Spirit of\nthe Father, and Spirit of the Son, not by some kind of synthesis, like\nsoul and body in us, but in the midst of Father and Son of the Father\nand of the Son, a third by appelation....\n\t"The Father always existed and the Son always existed, and the Spirit\nbreathes from the Father and the Son; and neither is the Son created nor\nis the Spirit created."\n\t-St. Epiphanius of Salamis (which is on Cyprus), The Man Well-Anchored,\n8 and 75 (374 AD)\n\n\t"Concerning the Holy Spirit, I ought not to remain silent, nor yet is\nit necessary to speak. Still, on account of those who do not know Him,\nit is not possible for me to be silent. However it is necessary to\nspeak of Him who must be acknowledged, who is from the Father and the\nSon, His Sources."\n\t-St. Hilary of Poitiers, The Trintiy, 2, 29 (356 to 359 AD)\n\n\tThus, as I have pointed out before, Gaul, Spain, Italy, Africa, Egypt,\nPalastine, and the lands of the Greeks, all of Christnedom at that time,\nall have Fathers who can be cited to show that they confess the doctrine\nexpressed by the filioque. I suggest to those of the Orthodox Church\nthat they come up with some of the Fathers, besides St. John of Damascus\nwho all will admit denied the filioque, to support their views. It is\nnot enough to bring up the "proceeds from the Father" line of the Creed\nor the Gospel of John, for that says what we believe also. But it does\nnot say the Holy Spirit does not proceed from the Son, only that He does\nproceed from the Father.\n\nAndy Byler\n',
'From: jer@prefect.cc.bellcore.com (rathmann,janice e)\nSubject: Re: Sinus vs. Migraine (was Re: Sinus Endoscopy)\nOrganization: Bellcore, Livingston, NJ\nSummary: Headaches and analgesics\nLines: 95\n\n\nI noticed several years ago that when I took analgesics fairly regularly,\n(motrin at the time), I seemed to get a lot of migraines. But had\nforgotten about that until I started reading some of the posts here.\nI generally don\'t take NSAIDS or Tylenol for headaches, because I\'ve\nfound them to be ineffective. However, I have two other pain sources\nthat force me to take NSAIDS (currently Naprosyn). First, is some\npelvic pain that I get at the beginning of my period, and then much\nworse at midcycle. I have had surgery for endometriosis in the past\n(~12 years ago), so the Drs. tell me that my pain is probably due\nto the endometriosis coming back. I\'ve tried Synarel, it reduced\nthe pain while I took it (3 mos), but the pain returned immediately\nafter I stopped. Three doctors have suggested hysterectomy as the\nonly "real solution" to my problem. Although I don\'t expect to have\nany more children, I don\'t like the idea of having my uterus and\none remaining ovary removed (the first ovary was removed when I had\nthe surgery for endometriosis). One of the Drs that suggested\nI get a hysterectomy is an expert in laser surgery, but perhaps thinks\nthat type of procedure is only worthwhile on women who still plan\nto have children. So basically all I\'m left with is toughing out\nthe pain. This would be impossible without Naprosyn (or something\nsimilar - but not aspirin, that doesn\'t work, and Motrin gave me\nhorrible gastritis a few years ago, so I\'m through with it). In\nfact, Naprosyn works very well at eliminating the pain if I take\nit regularly as I did when I had severe back pain (and pain in both \nlegs) as I\'ll discuss in a moment. Generally though, I wait until\nI have the pain before I take the Naprosyn, but then it takes\nseveral hours for it reduce the pain (it\'s actually quite effective\nat reducing the pain, it just takes quite a while). In the meantime\nI\'m frequently in severe pain.\n\nThe other pain source I have is chronic lower back pain resulting in\nbilateral radiculopathy. I\'ve had MRIs, Xrays, CT scan, and EMGs\n(I\'ve had 2 of them, and don\'t intend to ever do that again) with\nnerve conduction tests. The tests have not been conclusive as to\nwhat is causing my back and leg pain. The MRI reports both say I have\nseveral bulging, degeneratig disks, and from the Xrays (and MRI, I think)\nit is apparent that I have arthritis. The reading on the CT scan\nwas that there are two herniations (L3-L4, and L4-L5), but others\nhav looked at the films and concluded that there are no herniations.\nThe second EMG and nerve conduction studies shows significant denervation\ncompared to the first EMG. Oh yeah, I had some other horrible test,\ncalled something like Somatic Evoked Response which showed that the\n"internal nerves" are working fine. Anyway, the bottom line is that\nI sometimes have severe pain in both legs and back pain. The back pain\nis there all the time, but I can live with it. When the leg pain is there,\nI need some analgesic/anti-inflammatory medication to reduce the pain\nto a level where I can work. So I took Naprosyn regulary for 6-9\nmonths (every time I tried to stop the leg pain got worse, so I\'d \nalways resume). Since last November I have taken it much less frequently,\nand primarily for the pelvic pain. I have been going to physical\ntherapy for the last 8 months (2-3 times a week). After the first month\nor so, my therapist put me on pelvic traction (she had tried it earlier,\nbut it had caused a lot of pain in my back, this time she tried it at\na lower weight). After a month or two, the pain in my legs began going\naway (but the traction aways caused discomfort in my lower back, which\ncould be reduced with ultrasound and massage). So now, I don\'t have\nnearly as much pain in my legs, in fact my therapist took me off\ntraction about 2 weeks ago.\n\nGetting back to my original reason for this post... Even if I can avoid\ntaking analgesic for headaches, I really can\'t avoid them entirely because\nI have other pain sources, that "force" me to use them (Oh, I forgot\nto mention that it has been suggested to me that I have back surgery,\nbut I\'m avoiding that too). I find the migraines difficult to deal with,\noccassionally I have to take off work, but usually I can work, but at\na reduced capacity (I\'m a systems engineer and do a lot of reading\nand writing). When the pelvic pain is bad, I can\'t concentrate much,\nI usually end up jumping out of my chair every few minutes, because\nthe pain is so bothersome. When the pain in my back is bad, it can\ncause severe burning in both legs, shooting pains in my legs, electric\nshock type of pain in my feet and toes, and basically when it gets bad\nI can\'t really sit at all. Then I end up spending most of my time home\nand in bed. So even if the analgesics contribute to the migraines, the\nmigraines are more tolerable than the other pain sources. I get a lot\nof migraines, an average of 3 to 4 a month, which last 1-3 days.\nI\'ve taken cafergot (the first time the caffiene really got to me so\nI reduced the dosage), but I don\'t like the side effects (if I take\nmore than two I get diahrea). If I get a very bad headache, I will\neventually take the cafergot. My neurologist wasn\'t very helpful when\nI told him my problems with cafergot, he said that when sumatriptan\nbecomes available, I should try that. I\'ve tried several other medications\n(fiornal, midrin, fiornal with codeine, tegretol, and inderal) but\nthey either didn\'t work, or I couldn\'t tolerate them. So what can I do?\nMy doctor\'s seem to be satisfied with me just trying to tolerate the\npain, which I agree with most of the time, but not when I have a lot of\npain. I\'ve had some bad experiences with surgery (my heart stopped\nonce from the anesthesia - I was told that it was likely the\nsuccinylcholine), and I\'ve already had surgery several times.\n\nAnyway, the point of what I\'m saying is that even if analgesics can contribute\nto migraines, some people NEED to take them to tolerate other pain.\n\nJanice Rathmann\n\n',
"From: ricky@watson.ibm.com (Rick Turner)\nSubject: Re: M-MOTION VIDEO CARD: YUV to RGB ?\nDisclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not necessarily those of IBM.\nNntp-Posting-Host: danebury.hursley.ibm.com\nOrganization: IBM UK Labs\nLines: 3\n\nI'll contact you offline about this.\n\nRick\n",
'From: km@ky3b.pgh.pa.us (Ken Mitchum)\nSubject: Re: tuberculosis\nOrganization: KY3B - Vax Pittsburgh, PA\nLines: 19\n\nIn article <1993Mar25.085526.914@news.wesleyan.edu>, RGINZBERG@eagle.wesleyan.edu (Ruth Ginzberg) writes:\n|> \n|> But I\'ll be damned, his "rights" to be sick & to fail to treat his disease & to\n|> spread it all over the place were, indeed preserved. Happy?\n\nSeveral years ago I tried to commit a patient who was growing Salmonella out of his\nstool, blood, and an open ulcer for treatment. The idea was that the guy was a\nwalking public health risk, and that forcing him to receive IV antibiotics for\na few days was in the public interest. I will make a long story short by saying\nthat the judge laughed at my idea, yelled at me for wasting his time, and let\nthe guy go.\n\nI found out that tuberculosis appears to be the only MEDICAL (as oppsed to psychiatric)\ncondition that one can be committed for, and this is because very specific laws were\nenacted many years ago regarding tb. I am certain these vary from state to state.\n\nAny legal experts out there to help us on this?\n\n-km\n',
"From: sue@netcom.com (Sue Miller)\nSubject: Re: Eugenics\nOrganization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)\nLines: 7\n\nIn article <19617@pitt.UUCP> geb@cs.pitt.edu (Gordon Banks) writes:\n>we do this? Should we make a race of disease-free, long-lived,\n>Arnold Schwartzenegger-muscled, supermen? Even if we can.\n>\n\nSure, as long as they'll make one for me.\n\n",
'From: geb@cs.pitt.edu (Gordon Banks)\nSubject: Re: Toxoplasmosis\nReply-To: geb@cs.pitt.edu (Gordon Banks)\nOrganization: Univ. of Pittsburgh Computer Science\nLines: 33\n\nIn article <1240002@isoit109.BBN.HP.COM> sude@isoit109.BBN.HP.COM (#Susanne Denninger) writes:\n>\n>1. How dangerous is it ? From whom is it especially dangerous ?\n>\nDangerous only to immune suppressed persons and fetuses. To them,\nit is extremely dangerous. Most of the rest of us have already had\nit and it isn\'t dangerous at all.\n\n>2. How is it transmitted (I read about raw meat and cats, but I\'d like to\n> have more details) ?\n>\nCat feces are the worst. Pregnant women should never touch the litter box.\n\n>3. What can be done to prevent infection ?\n>\nCook your meat. Watch it with pets.\n\n>4. What are the symptoms and long-term effects ?\n>\nYou\'ll have to read up on it. \n\n>5. What treatments are availble ?\n>\n\nThere is an effective antibiotic that can keep it in check.\nOf course, it can\'t reverse damage already done, such as in\na fetus.\n\n-- \n----------------------------------------------------------------------------\nGordon Banks N3JXP | "Skepticism is the chastity of the intellect, and\ngeb@cadre.dsl.pitt.edu | it is shameful to surrender it too soon." \n----------------------------------------------------------------------------\n',
'From: mls@panix.com (Michael Siemon)\nSubject: Re: Homosexuality issues in Christianity\nOrganization: PANIX Public Access Unix, NYC\nLines: 25\n\nIn <May.7.01.08.16.1993.14381@athos.rutgers.edu> whitsebd@nextwork.rose-hulman.edu (Bryan Whitsell) writes:\n\n>Any one who thinks that Homosexuality and Christianity are compatible should check \n>out:\n>\tRomans 1:27\n>\tI Corinthians 6:9\n>\tI Timothy 1:10\n>\tJude 1:7\n>\tII Peter 2:6-9\n>\tGen. 19\n>\tLev 18:22\n>(to name a few of the verses that pertain to homosexuality)\n\nHomosexual Christians have indeed "checked out" these verses. Some of\nthem are used against us only through incredibly perverse interpretations.\nOthers simply do not address the issues.\n\nYou would seem to be more in need of a careful and Spirit-led course\nin exegesis than most of the gay Christians I know. I suggest that\nyou stop "proof-texting" about things you know nothing about.\n-- \nMichael L. Siemon\t\tI say "You are gods, sons of the\nmls@panix.com\t\t\tMost High, all of you; nevertheless\n - or -\t\t\tyou shall die like men, and fall\nmls@ulysses.att..com\t\tlike any prince." Psalm 82:6-7\n',
'From: jroberts@ux4.cso.uiuc.edu (Robertson)\nSubject: ATI GUP and Graphics Wkshop/Win\nOrganization: University of Illinois at Urbana\nLines: 11\n\nI have an ATI Graph. Ultra Pro VLB w/2 megs, and have a small question\nabout Graphics Workshop for Windows. When I exit from it it says my\ncurrent driver can handle on 32768 colors when I am actually in \n1024x768x65000 color mode. Is this a driver problem, a GWS error, or\nwhat? I am using the 1.5(59) driver under Win 3.1. It correctly\nstates that I can display 16M colors when I switch to 800x600x24bit,\nthough.\nAnother question- Anybody know of any Viewers that support this card\nother than Windows viewers?\nAny help would be appreciated.\n\n',
'From: darice@yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au (Fred Rice)\nSubject: Re: Why is sex only allowed in marriage: Rationality (was: Islamic marriage)?\nOrganization: Monash University, Melb., Australia.\nLines: 115\n\nIn <1993Apr4.093904.20517@proxima.alt.za> lucio@proxima.alt.za (Lucio de Re) writes:\n\n>darice@yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au (Fred Rice) writes:\n\n>>My point of view is that the argument "all sexism is bad" just simply\n>>does not hold. Let me give you an example. How about permitting a\n>>woman to temporarily leave her job due to pregnancy -- should that be\n>>allowed? It happens to be sexist, as it gives a particular right only\n>>to women. Nevertheless, despite the fact that it is sexist, I completely \n>>support such a law, because I think it is just.\n\n>Fred, you\'re exasperating... Sexism, like racialism, is a form of\n>discrimination, using obvious physical or cultural differences to deny\n>one portion of the population the same rights as another.\n\n>In this context, your example above holds no water whatsoever:\n>there\'s no discrimination in "denying" men maternity leave, in fact\n>I\'m quite convinced that, were anyone to experiment with male\n>pregnancy, it would be possible for such a future father to take\n>leave on medical grounds.\n\nOkay... I argued this thoroughly about 3-4 weeks ago. Men and women are\ndifferent ... physically, physiologically, and psychologically. Much\nrecent evidence for this statement is present in the book "Brainsex" by\nAnne Moir and David Jessel. I recommend you find a copy and read it.\nTheir book is an overview of recent scientific research on this topic\nand is well referenced. \n\nNow, if women and men are different in some ways, the law can only\nadequately take into account their needs in these areas where they are\ndifferent by also taking into account the ways in which men and women\nare different. Maternity leave is an example of this -- it takes into\naccount that women get pregnant. It does not give women the same rules\nit would give to men, because to treat women like it treats men in this\ninstance would be unjust. This is just simply an obvious example of\nwhere men and women are intrinsically different!!!!!\n\nNow, people make the _naive_ argument that sexism = oppression.\nHowever, maternity leave is sexist because MEN DO NOT GET PREGNANT. \nMen do not have the same access to leave that women do (not to the same\nextent or degree), and therefore IT IS SEXIST. No matter however much a\nman _wants_ to get pregnant and have maternity leave, HE NEVER CAN. And\ntherefore the law IS SEXIST. No man can have access to maternity leave,\nNO MATTER HOW HARD HE TRIES TO GET PREGNANT. I hope this is clear.\n\nMaternity leave is an example where a sexist law is just, because the\nsexism here just reflects the "sexism" of nature in making men and women\ndifferent. There are many other differences between men and women which\nare far more subtle than pregnancy, and to find out more of these I\nrecommend you have a look at the book "Brainsex".\n\nYour point that perhaps some day men can also be pregnant is fallacious.\nIf men can one day become pregnant it will be by having biologically\nbecome women! To have a womb and the other factors required for\npregnancy is usually wrapped up in the definition of what a woman is --\nso your argument, when it is examined, is seen to be fallacious. You\nare saying that men can have the sexist maternity leave privilege that \nwomen can have if they also become women -- which actually just supports\nmy statement that maternity leave is sexist.\n\n>The discrimination comes in when a woman is denied opportunities\n>because of her (legally determined) sexual inferiorities. As I\n>understand most religious sexual discrimination, and I doubt that\n>Islam is exceptional, the female is not allowed into the priestly\n>caste and in general is subjugated so that she has no aspirations to\n>rights which, as an equal human, she ought to be entitled to.\n\nThere is no official priesthood in Islam -- much of this function is\ntaken by Islamic scholars. There are female Islamic scholars and\nfemale Islamic scholars have always existed in Islam. An example from\nearly Islamic history is the Prophet\'s widow, Aisha, who was recognized\nin her time and is recognized in our time as an Islamic scholar.\n\n>No matter how sweetly you coat it, part of the role of religions\n>seems, historically, to have served the function of oppressing the\n>female, whether by forcing her to procreate to the extent where\n>there is no opportunity for self-improvement, or by denying her\n>access to the same facilities the males are offered.\n\nYou have no evidence for your blanket statement about all religions, and\nI dispute it. I could go on and on about women in Islam, etc., but I\nrecently reposted something here under the heading "Islam and Women" --\nif it is still at your news-site I suggest you read it. It is reposted\nfrom soc.religion.islam, so if it has disappeared from alt.atheism it\nstill might be in soc.religion.islam (I forgot what its original title\nwas though). I will email it to you if you like. \n\n>The Roman Catholic Church is the most blatant of the culprit,\n>because they actually istitutionalised a celibate clergy, but the\n>other religious are no different: let a woman attempt to escape her\n>role as child bearer and the wrath of god descends on her.\n\nYour statement that "other religions are no different" is, I think, a\nstatement based simply on lack of knowledge about religions other than\nChristianity and perhaps Judaism.\n\n>I\'ll accept your affirmation that Islam grants women the same rights\n>as men when you can show me that any muslim woman can aspire to the\n>same position as (say) Khomeini and there are no artificial religious\n>or social obstacles on her path to achieve this.\n\nAisha, who I mentioned earlier, was not only an Islamic scholar but also\nwas, at one stage, a military leader.\n\n>Show me the equivalent of Hillary Rhodam-Clinton within Islam, and I\n>may consider discussing the issue with you.\n\nThe Prophet\'s first wife, who died just before the "Hijra" (the\nProphet\'s journey from Mecca to Medina) was a successful businesswoman.\n\nLucio, you cannot make a strong case for your viewpoint when your\nviewpoint is based on ignorance about world religions.\n\n Fred Rice\n darice@yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au \n',
"From: mas@Cadence.COM (Masud Khan)\nSubject: Re: Slavery (was Re: Why is sex only allowed in marriage: ...)\nOrganization: Cadence Design Systems, Inc.\nLines: 39\n\nIn article <1993Apr12.124221.22592@bradford.ac.uk> L.Newnham@bradford.ac.uk (Leonard Newnham) writes:\n>\n>Oh, this all sounds so nice! Everyone helping each other and always smiling\n>and fluffy bunnies everywhere. Wake up! People are just not like that. It\n>seems evident from history that no society has succeeded when it had to rely\n>upon the goodwill and unselfishness of the people. Isn't it obvious from\n>places like Iran that even if there are only a few greedy people in society\n>then they are going to be attracted to positions of power? Sounds like a\n>recipe for disaster.\n>\n>-- \n>\n>Leonard e-mail: L.Newnham@bradford.ac.uk\n\nLeonard, I'll give you an example of this....\n\nMy father recently bought a business, the business price was 150,000 pounds\nand my father approached the people in the community for help, he raised\n60,000 pounds in interest free loans from friends and relatives and \nMuslims he knew, 50,000 had cash and the rest he got a business loan, after\npaying off the Muslim lenders many of them helped him with further loans\nto help him clear the bank debt and save him from further intrest, this\nis an example of a Muslim community helping one another, why did they help\nbecause of their common identity as Muslims. In turn my father has helped\nwith people buying houses to minimise the amount of intrest they pay \nand in some cases buy houses intrest free with the help of those more\nfortunate in the community. \n\nThe fact is Leonard it DOES work without a fluffy bunny in sight!\niThat is the beauty of Islam.\n\nMas\n\n\n-- \nC I T I Z E N +-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-+\n_____ _____ | C A D E N C E D E S I G N S Y S T E M S Inc. |\n \\_/ | Masud Ahmed Khan mas@cadence.com All My Opinions|\n_____/ \\_____ +-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-+\n",
"Subject: XV for MS-DOS !!!\nFrom: NO E-MAIL ADDRESS@eicn.etna.ch\nOrganization: EICN, Switzerland\nLines: 42\n\nHi !!! This is the response for Wayne Michael...and certainly for other-one :-)\n\n\nI'm sorry for...\n\n 1) The late of the answer but I couldn't find xv221 for msdos 'cause \n\tI forgot the address...but I've retrieve it..\n\n 2) Posting this answer here in comp.graphics 'cause I can't use e-mail,\n\tnot yet....\n\n 2) My bad english 'cause I'm a Swiss and my language is french....\n\n\nAfter a long time I retrieve the address where you can find XV for Dos...\n\n\tSite\t: omnigate.clarkson.edu\n\tAliases\t: grape.ecs.clarkson.edu\n\tNumber\t: 128.153.4.2\n\n\t/pub/msdos/djgpp/pub\n\n\tit's xv221.zip (?) I think...\n\n\nCertainly you read the other answer from Kevin Martin... He write about DV/X \n(?). \n\n What is it ?????? Could Someone answer ????\n\t\n\tThanx in advance.... \n\n-- \n---------------------------------------------------------------------\n*\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t *\n* Pascal PERRET \t\t|\tperret@eicn.etna.ch *\n* Ecole d'ingénieur ETS\t|\t(Not Available at this time)*\n* 2400 Le LOCLE\t\t|\t\t\t\t *\n* Suisse \t\t\t\t\t\t\t *\n*\t\t !!!! Enjoy COMPUTER !!!!\t\t\t *\n*\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t *\n---------------------------------------------------------------------\n",
"From: schwartz@ils.nwu.edu (diane schwartz)\nSubject: SIGKids Research Showcase Call\nOrganization: institute for the learning sciences\nLines: 250\nDistribution: world\nNNTP-Posting-Host: schwartz.ils.nwu.edu\n\n\t\tSIGKIDS CALL FOR PARTICIPATION\nSIGKids Research Showcase is where learning is hip. Pushing the edge in\neducation, computer graphics, and new technologies, the SIGKids Research\nShowcase will provide SIGGRAPH's attendees with the latest in applying\ncomputer technology to form state of the art educational experiences. So\nhop to it! Submit any works which converge the disciplines of education\nand computer technology.\n\nPossible categories and domains include but are NOT LIMITED to:\n\n-Interactive/stand-alone applications\n-Self-Run demonstrations and tutorials\n-Museum Installations\n-Groupware/Collaborative systems\n-Hypermedia\n-Virtual Reality\n-Scientific Visualization\n-Interactive Art\n-Microworlds\n\nDeadlines:\n\nMay 21, 1993 submissions due \n\n\nSubmit to:\n\nDiane Schwartz\nSIGGRAPH '93 SIGKids Committee\nc/o The Institute for the Learning Sciences\n1890 Maple Avenue, Suite 150\nEvanston, Illinois 60201\nFax:\t708.491.5258\nschwartz@ils.nwu.edu\n\nElectronic Submission Form:\nschwartz@ils.nwu.edu\n\nHow to Submit:\n1. Fill out the 'Permission to Use' form (see page 19 of the SIGGRAPH '93\nCall for Participation or send email to schwartz@ils.nwu.edu to have one\nfaxed to you.)\n\n2. Fill out the SIGKids '93 Research Showcase Submission Form (below).\n\n3. Send an abstract/description of the submission (approximately 100 words)\nin one of the following ways:\n\n A. Send 3 hard copies to Diane Schwartz (via surface mail) at the above\n address\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t OR\n B. Fax 1 copy to Diane Schwartz at (708)491-5258\n OR\n C. Email 1 copy to Diane Schwartz at schwartz@ils.nwu.edu\n\n4. If it is necessary to explain the project, additional support material\nsuch as videotapes and slides that will assist the selection committee in\nreaching a decision are highly reccommended. \n\nFax and email submissions are acceptable.\n\nPLEASE SEND ALL OF YOUR SUBMISSION MATERIAL IN THE SAME FORM (either\nsurface mail, email, or fax. The only exception to this should be the\nadditional support material which should only be sent via surface mail). \n\nNOTE: Due to our very limited budget, if the submitter chooses to have a\ndedicated machine for their work, they will have to pay rental fees\nfor the hardware personally.\n\nNOTE: Contributors outside for the United States should be aware of customs\nand carrier delays and send submissions early.\n\n______________________________________cut\nhere__________________________________\n\n ACM SIGGRAPH '93 SIGKIDS RESEARCH SHOWCASE ENTRY FORM\n\n\nA copy of this form must accompany each proposal you submit. Send SIGKids\nResearch Showcase Entries to:\n\nDiane Schwartz\nSIGGRAPH '93 SIGKids Committee\nc/o The Institute for the Learning Sciences\n1890 Maple Avenue, Suite 150\nEvanston, Illinois 60201\nFax:\t708.491.5258\nschwartz@ils.nwu.edu\n\nPlease print legibly.\n\nContact Information: \nName________________________________________________\n\nCompany______________________________________________\n\nAddress______________________________________________\n\nCity_________________________________________________\n\nState_____________Postal code______________Country_________________ \n\nDaytime phone_____________________Evening phone____________________\n\nFax_____________________________Email______________________________\n\nAdditional Information:\n\nTitle or Theme of Piece__________________________________ \n\nParticipant(s') name(s)___________________________________\n\nCollaborator(s') name(s)__________________________________ \n\nHardware (platform and periferals):\n\n1. What is\nneeded:_____________________________________________________________\n\n________________________________________________________________________________\n\n________________________________________________________________________________\n\n2. Supplied by Participant:\n\n\t\t___ Yes ___ No\n\n\t3. Dedicated machine?\n\n\t\t___ Yes ___ No\n\nNOTE: Due to our very limited budget the participant must pay the rental\nfees for any dedicated hardware.\n\n___Need assistance\n(specify)____________________________________________________ \n\n________________________________________________________________________________\n\n________________________________________________________________________________\n\n\nSoftware________________________________________________________________________\n\n________________________________________________________________________________\n\n________________________________________________________________________________\n\nStatement - Please tell us the significance of the work.\n(less than 50 words)\n________________________________________________________________________________\n\n________________________________________________________________________________\n\n________________________________________________________________________________\n\n________________________________________________________________________________\n\n________________________________________________________________________________\n\nMedium:\n\n___Other (describe - i.e. virtual reality, virtual sculpture, interactive\nmultimedia installation,\netc.)__________________________________________________\n\n________________________________________________________________________________\n\n________________________________________________________________________________\n\n\nSpecial Requirements:\n\nPhysical\ndescription____________________________________________________________ \n\n________________________________________________________________________________\n\n________________________________________________________________________________\n\nPower___________________________________________________________________________\n\n________________________________________________________________________________\n\n________________________________________________________________________________\n\nDimensions______________________________________________________________________\n\n________________________________________________________________________________\n\n________________________________________________________________________________\n\nOther__________________________________________________________________________\n\n________________________________________________________________________________\n\n________________________________________________________________________________\n\nAuthorization\n\nPermission to use visual and audio: In the event that materials used in my\nACM SIGGRAPH'93 SIGKids Research Showcase Entry contain the work of other\nindividuals or organizations (including any copyrighted musical\ncompositions or excerpts thereof), I understand that it is my\nresponsibility to secure any necessary permissions and/or liscenses. \n\n\t___Yes ___No My piece contains images, audio, or video components.\n If yes:\n\t ___Yes ___No I have the necessary rights and/or permissions\nto\n use the images, audio, or video components in\nmy\n piece.\n\nConference presentation release: By signing this form, I grant SIGGRAPH'93\npermission to consider my piece for the SIGKids Research Showcase. I\nmaintain the copyright to my work and will receive full credit wherever\nthis work is used.\n\nConference promotional material: I grant ACM SIGGRAPH the right to use my\nslides for conference and organization publicity, both now and in the\nfuture. This includes usage on posters, brochures, catalogs, promotional\nitems, or media broadcast. In exchange, SIGGRAPH provides full\nauthor/artist credit information on all promotional material.\n\n___Yes ___No I grant ACM SIGGRAPH permission to use slides of my work\n for conference and organization publicity.\n\nSignature______________________________________Date_________\n\nACM SIGGRAPH makes every attempt to respect and protect intellectual \nproperty rights of people and organizations preparing material for \nSIGGRAPH conferences. This entry form explains the uses SIGGRAPH will \nmake of the material and requires you to acknowledge that you have \npermission to use this material. This may involve seeking clearance from \nyour employer or from others who have loaned you material, such as \nvideotapes and slides. This form helps prevent situations whereby \nSIGGRAPH'93 presentations include material without permission that \nmight lead to complaints or even legal action.\n\nThis form also asks you to grant SIGGRAPH the right to distribute your\nwork, while you maintain the copyright. Slide sets and catalogs are\npublications for which you grant SIGGRAPH nonexclusive worldwide\ndistribution rights. SIGGRAPH marks each item in these publications with a\nproper copyright notice, which informs viewers that these items may not be\ncopied, reproduced, broadcast, or used for commercial purposes without the\nexplicit permission of the indivicual copyright owners. In addition, this\nform asks if ACM SIGGRAPH may use the your materials for conference and\norganizational promotional material in exchange for full author/artist\ncredit information.\n",
'From: a137490@lehtori.cc.tut.fi (Aario Sami)\nSubject: Re: Genocide is Caused by Atheism\nOrganization: Tampere University of Technology, Computing Centre\nLines: 48\nDistribution: sfnet\nNNTP-Posting-Host: cc.tut.fi\n\nIn <1993Apr9.154316.19778@ultb.isc.rit.edu> snm6394@ultb.isc.rit.edu (S.N. Mozumder ) writes:\n\n>In article <kmr4.1483.734243128@po.CWRU.edu> kmr4@po.CWRU.edu (Keith M. Ryan) writes:\n \n>>\tIf I state that I know that there is a green marble in a closed box, \n>>which I have _never_ seen, nor have any evidence for its existance; I would\n>>be guilty of deceit, even if there is, in fact, a green marble inside.\n>>\n>>\tThe question of whether or not there is a green marble inside, is \n>>irrelevent.\n\n>You go ahead and play with your marbles.\n\nI love it, I love it, I love it!! Wish I could fit all that into a .sig\nfile! (If someone is keeping a list of Bobby quotes, be sure to include\nthis one!)\n\n>>\n>>\tStating an unproven opinion as a fact, is deceit. And, knowingly \n>>being decietful is a falsehood and a lie.\n\n>So why do you think its an unproven opinion? If I said something as\n>fact but you think its opinion because you do not accept it, then who\'s\n>right?\n\nThe Flat-Earthers state that "the Earth is flat" is a fact. I don\'t accept\nthis, I think it\'s an unproven opinion, and I think the Round-Earthers are\nright because they have better evidence than the Flat-Earthers do.\n\nAlthough I can\'t prove that a god doesn\'t exist, the arguments used to\nsupport a god\'s existence are weak and often self-contradictory, and I\'m not\ngoing to believe in a god unless someone comes over to me and gives me a\nreason to believe in a god that I absolutely can\'t ignore.\n\nA while ago, I read an interesting book by a fellow called Von Daenicken,\nin which he proved some of the wildest things, and on the last page, he\nwrote something like "Can you prove it isn\'t so?" I certainly can\'t, but\nI\'m not going to believe him, because he based his "proof" on some really\nquestionable stuff, such as old myths (he called it "circumstancial\nevidence" :] ).\n\nSo far, atheism hasn\'t made me kill anyone, and I\'m regarded as quite an\nagreeable fellow, really. :)\n-- \nSami Aario | "Can you see or measure an atom? Yet you can explode\na137490@cc.tut.fi | one. Sunlight is comprised of many atoms."\n-------------------\' "Your stupid minds! Stupid, stupid!"\nEros in "Plan 9 From Outer Space" DISCLAIMER: I don\'t agree with Eros.\n',
"From: dgraham@bmers30.bnr.ca (Douglas Graham)\nSubject: Re: Jews can't hide from keith@cco.\nOrganization: Bell-Northern Research, Ottawa, Canada\nLines: 40\n\nIn article <1pqdor$9s2@fido.asd.sgi.com> livesey@solntze.wpd.sgi.com (Jon Livesey) writes:\n>In article <1993Apr3.071823.13253@bmerh85.bnr.ca>, dgraham@bmers30.bnr.ca (Douglas Graham) writes:\n>The poster casually trashed two thousand years of Jewish history, and \n>Ken replied that there had previously been people like him in Germany.\n\nI think the problem here is that I pretty much ignored the part\nabout the Jews sightseeing for 2000 years, thinking instead that\nthe important part of what the original poster said was the bit\nabout killing Palestinians. In retrospect, I can see how the\nsightseeing thing would be offensive to many. I originally saw\nit just as poetic license, but it's understandable that others\nmight see it differently. I still think that Ken came on a bit\nstrong though. I also think that your advice to Masud Khan:\n\n #Before you argue with someone like Mr Arromdee, it's a good idea to\n #do a little homework, or at least think.\n\nwas unnecessary.\n\n>That's right. There have been. There have also been people who\n>were formally Nazis. But the Nazi party would have gone nowhere\n>without the active and tacit support of the ordinary man in the\n>street who behaved as though casual anti-semitism was perfectly\n>acceptable.\n>\n>Now what exactly don't you understand about what I wrote, and why\n>don't you see what it has to do with the matter at hand?\n\nThroughout all your articles in this thread there is the tacit\nassumption that the original poster was exhibiting casual\nanti-semitism. If I agreed with that, then maybe your speech\non why this is bad might have been relevant. But I think you're\nreading a lot into one flip sentence. While probably not\ntrue in this case, too often the charge of anti-semitism gets\nthrown around in order to stifle legitimate criticism of the\nstate of Israel.\n\nAnyway, I'd rather be somewhere else, so I'm outta this thread.\n--\nDoug Graham dgraham@bnr.ca My opinions are my own.\n",
'From: JEK@cu.nih.gov\nSubject: Chanting of the Passion\nLines: 14\n\nMike Rolfe writes:\n\n > If you know the Latin, one really beautiful way to hear the\n > Passion is its being chanted by three deacons: the Narrator\n > chants in the middle baritone range, Jesus chants in the bass,\n > and others directly quoted are handled by a high tenor.\n\nThis is done in English (same music as the traditional Latin) in\nmany Anglican parishes. I should expect that many RCC parishes would\ndo likewise. The ST MATTHEW PASSION and ST JOHN PASSION of J S Bach\nare direct offshoots of this tradition\n\n Yours,\n James Kiefer\n',
'From: dxf12@po.cwru.edu (Douglas Fowler)\nSubject: Re: Christian Parenting\nOrganization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)\nLines: 83\n\n\n Sorry for posting this, but my e-mail keeps bouncing. Maybe it will\nhelp others here, anyway, and therefore I pray others will read this. It is\nactually a response from my Aunt, who has 5 kids, since I have none yet.\n\n>Hi I am a Sociology student and I am currently researching into\n>young offenders. I am looking at the way various groups of\n>children are raised at home. At the moment I am formlulating\n>information on discipline within the Christian home.\n>\n>Please, if you are a parent in this catagory can you email me\n>your response to the following questionaire. All responses\n>will be treated confidentially and will only be used to prepare\n>stats.\n I\'m posting this for a good Christian relative who does not have e-mail\naccess. Since this aunt and uncle have 5 kids I felt they would be more\nrelevant than I, who have none (yet).\n\n>1. Ages & sexes of children\n 13-year-old (13YO) twins, 10YO boy, 6.5YO boy, 2YO girl\n\n>2. Do you spank your kids?\n I don\'t call it spanking, but they do, so yes, very rarely.\n\n>3. If so how often?\n I don\'t call it spanking because it\'s more of a reaction to something\nvery dangerous, such as trying to stick their finger in a fan or running\ninto the road. Maybe 3-4 times for each except for the 2YO girl, who has\nnot been spanked yet.\n They call it that because it *does* hurt their feelings, and of course\nI give all the hugs and stuff to ensure they know they\'re still loved.\n\n>4. Do you use an implement to spank with?\n No, that would be too painful. If it\'s too traumatic they never recall\nwhy they were punished. Besides, it must be immediate, and taking the time\nto go get a toolmeans you\'re not doing it right away, and that lessens the\nimpact. It\'s very emotional for a child as it is - which is evidenced by the\nfact that a little slap on the rear - which hurts for perhaps 5 seconds -\nis called a spanking.\n>\n>5. If you do not spank, what method of discipline do you use?\n Lots of logical consequences - for instance, when 4YO Matthew dared\na good friend to jump out of his treehouse or he would push him out, I made\nsure they didn\'t play together for 5 days so he\'d know that would make him\nlose friends very quickly. He\'s never done anything like that since.\n We also use time-out in their rooms - I use a timer so they don\'t keep\narguing with me over leaving, since it\'s hard to argue with a macine.\nI will go to the closed door and tell them timeout won\'t be over until they\ncalm down if they\'re too tantrumy. I use the top of the stairs when they\'re\nreally young.\n\n>6. Your age?\n 40\n\n>7. Your location\n Bath, Ohio. It\'s right outside of Akron, in the northeast part of Ohio.\n\n>8. While under the age of 16 did you ever commit a criminal\n>offence?\n No, and none of my kids would dream of it. I hope you can use this to\nteach all parents that physical punishment isn\'t always required - parents use\nthat as an excuse to hit too hard.\n\n>9. How ere you disciplined as a kid\n Lots of timeouts, same as I use. Our family and my husband\'s have never\nused spankings. In fact, my grandmother in law was one of 11 kids, and they\nwere almost never spanked. This was around the turn of the century. And,\nnone of us has ever been afoul of the law - man-made or God\'s law.\n Jesus says, referring to a small child whom he is holding, that "what\nye do to the least of these, ye do also to me." The Bible also says in all\nthings to be kind, and merciful, and especially loving. (Colossians 3:12-15.)\nThere is no room for selfish anger, which I\'ll admit I\'ve been tempted with\nat times. When I\'ve felt like spanking hard in anger, maybe the kid deserved\na little slap on the rear, but what I would have given would have been the\ndevil\'s work. I could feel the temptation, and just angrily ordered the kid\nto his/her room and went to my room myself. After praying and asking God\'s\nforgiveness, I was much calmer, and did not feel like spanking, but felt that\nwhat I had done was enough punishment.\n-- \nDoug Fowler: dxf12@po.CWRU.edu : Me, age 4 & now: "Mommys and Daddys & other\n Ever wonder if, after Casey : relatives have to give lots of hugs & love\nmissed the 3rd strike in the poem: & support, \'cause Heaven is just a great\nhe ran to first and made it? : big hug that lasts forever and ever!!!"\n',
"From: spp@zabriskie.berkeley.edu (Steve Pope)\nSubject: Re: Is MSG sensitivity superstition?\nOrganization: U.C. Berkeley -- ERL\nLines: 13\nDistribution: world\nNNTP-Posting-Host: zion.berkeley.edu\n\nCarl Lydick:\n\n> And you're condemning one particular ingredient without any \n> evidence that that's the ingredient to which you reacted.\n\nBelieve what you will.\n\nThe mass of anectdotal evidence, combined with the lack of\na properly constructed scientific experiment disproving\nthe hypothesis, makes the MSG reaction hypothesis the\nmost likely explanation for events.\n\nSteve\n",
"From: twong@civil.ubc.ca (Thomas Wong)\nSubject: Image processing software for PC\nOrganization: Dept. of Civil Engineering, U.B.C., Vancouver, B.C., Canada\nLines: 27\nDistribution: world\nNNTP-Posting-Host: sam.civil.ubc.ca\n\n\n\nI am posting the following for my brother. Please post your replies or\nsend him email to his address at the end of his message. Thank you.\n____________________________________________________________________\n\nMy supervisor is looking for a image analysis software for\nMS DOS. We need something to measure lengths and areas on\nmicrographs. Sometime in the future, we may expand to do\nsome densitometry for gels, etc. We've found lots of ads and\ninfo for the Jandel Scientific products: SigmaScan and Java.\n\nBut we have not been able to find any competing products. We\nwould appreciate any comments on these products and\n\nsuggestions / comments on other products we should consider.\nThanks.\n\n \n\nDonald\n\nUserDONO@MTSG.UBC.CA\n\n\n\n\n",
'From: luomat@alleg.edu (Timothy J. Luoma)\nSubject: Re: DID HE REALLY RISE???\nReply-To: luomat@alleg.edu\nOrganization: Allegheny College\nLines: 53\n\nIn article <Apr.9.01.11.16.1993.16937@athos.rutgers.edu> \nemery@tc.fluke.COM (John Emery) writes:\n[much of the excellent post deleted for space -- TjL]\n\n)->With all the suffering and persecution that it meant to be a believer, \nit\n)->would be quite probable that at least one of those in the supposed \nconspiracy\n)->would come forward and confess that the whole thing was a big hoax. \nYet\n)->not one did. It seems rather reasonable that the disciples did not \nmake\n)->up the resurrection but sincerely believed that Jesus had actually \nrisen\n)->from the dead; especially in light of the sufferings that came upon \nthose\n)->who believed.\n\n\nI was at the "Jubilee" conference this year in Pittsburgh PA, and the \nspeaker there spoke of this as well. He talked about many of the same \nthings you mentioned in your post, but here he went into a little more \ndetail. I\'ll paraphrase as best I can:\n\n"Suppose you were part of the `Christian consipracy\' which was going to \ntell people that Christ had risen. Never mind the stoning, the being \nburned alive, the possible crucifixion ... let\'s just talk about a \nscourging. The whip that would be used would have broken pottery, metal, \nbone, and anything else that they could find attached to it. You would be \nstood facing a wall, with nothing to protect you.\n\n"When the whip hit you the first time, it would tear the flesh off you \nwith instant incredibly intense pain. You would think to yourself `All \nthis for a lie?\' The second hit would drop you to your knees, you would \nscream out in agony that your raw back was being torn at again. You would \nsay to yourself: `All this for a lie?\' And you had 37 more coming.\n\n"At the third hit you would scream out that it was all a lie, beg for them \nto stop, and tell them that you would swear on your life that it had all \nbeen a lie, if they would only stop...."\n\nIt is amazing enough that those who believed kept their faith under such \ntorture.... but for a lie? There is no one fool enough to do that.... And \nno one came forward.\n\nExcellent post John, thanks for taking the time.\n\n\n--\nTj Luoma <luomat@alleg.edu>\t"God be merciful to \n"I have fought a good fight,\t me a sinner."--St Luke\n I have finished my course,\t"For me to live is Christ, and\n I have kept the faith." 2 TIM to die is gain" -- PHILIPPIANS 1:21 \n',
"From: edb9140@tamsun.tamu.edu (E.B.)\nSubject: POV problems with tga outputs\nOrganization: Texas A&M University, College Station, TX\nLines: 9\nDistribution: world\nNNTP-Posting-Host: tamsun.tamu.edu\n\nI can't fiqure this out. I have properly compiled pov on a unix machine\nrunning SunOS 4.1.3 The problem is that when I run the sample .pov files and\nuse the EXACT same parameters when compiling different .tga outputs. Some\nof the .tga's are okay, and other's are unrecognizable by any software.\n\nHelp!\ned\nedb9140@tamsun.tamu.edu\n\n",
'From: hall@vice (Hal F Lillywhite;627-3877;59-360;LP=A;YApG)\nSubject: Re: Help\nOrganization: Tektronix Inc., Beaverton, Or.\nLines: 73\n\nIn article <Apr.21.03.26.51.1993.1379@geneva.rutgers.edu> lmvec@westminster.ac.uk (William Hargreaves) writes:\n\n>\t I\'m a commited Christian that is battling with a problem. I know\n>that romans talks about how we are saved by our faith not our deeds, yet\n>hebrews and james say that faith without deeds is useless, saying\' You fools,\n>do you still think that just believing is enough?\'\n\nActually I don\'t think there is any conflict if we really understand\nwhat these passages say. First, what is faith? If you study the \nmeaning of the Greek and Hebrew words so translated I think you will\ncome to the conclusion that the word means a *lot* more than mere \nbelief. Faith means both trust and action. If you do not put your \nbelief into action it simply cannot qualify as faith. I think this \nis what James means when he says that "faith without works is dead" \nand, "I will show you my faith by my works." Remember James was \nwriting to "the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad." This \nprobably means he was writing to those who would hear the gospel much \nlater and wouldn\'t understand the meaning of the original Greek.\n(Indeed I suspect James was writing to us, today, among others he\nintended to reach.) Paul, on the other hand wrote mostly to the\npeople of the Roman empire who generally understood the meaning of\nthe Greek.\n\nAnother key to why there is no conflict is to look at Paul\'s\nstatements in their context. I think you will find that when Paul\ncontrasts faith and works it is in the context of comparing the\ngospel with the Law, meaning the Law of Moses. This was the great\nburden of Paul\'s life. As the apostle to the Gentiles he would go\nconvert a bunch of people, then the "Judizers" would come along and\ntry to convince them that they also had to obey the Law of Moses (cf\nActs chapter 15). In this context Paul condemns the idea of being\nsaved by the works of the Law, saying that we are saved by the blood\nof Jesus and our faith in him. I believe that a better translation\nfor today would be that we are saved by *faithfulness*. I think\n"faithfulness" today has a meaning closer to what the original\nwriters intended.\n\n>Now if someone is fully believing but there life is totally lead by themselves\n>and not by God, according to Romans that person is still saved by there faith.\n\nI think you misunderstand Romans. What Paul is really saying is\nthat God prefers a faithful Gentile who does not "keep kosher" to a\nkosher Jew who fails to stay faithful in the more important matters\nof following the Lord and having charity toward his fellows.\n\n>But then there is the bit which says that God preferes someone who is cold to\n>him (i.e. doesn\'t know him - condemned) so a lukewarm Christian someone who\n>knows and believes in God but doesn\'t make any attempt to live by the bible.\n\nIn the sense of faith described above, you cannot have real faith and \nbe lukewarm. If you know God but are lukewarm (unfaithful), you are \nworse off than the person who never heard of Him. Remember, Jesus in\nthe parable of the pearl of great price (Mat 13:45-46) and again in\nthe one on the treasure hidden in the field (Mat 13:44) indicates that\nthe price of the Kingdom of God is *all* we have.\n\n[I agree with you in general, including the fact that "pistis" has\nsome of the force of "faithful". However if you take that too far,\nyou can end up with something that Paul definitely would not have\nintended. Being faithful means following God in all things. To say\nthat we are saved by being faithful is very close to saying that we\nare saved by commiting no sins. I assume that\'s not what you meant.\n\nI have almost given up on finding a specific verbal formula that\ncompletely captures this. However I think Paul is describing what I\'d\ncall a basic orientation, including aspects such as trust and\ncommitment. Jesus speaks of it as rebirth, which implies a basic\nchange. We may still do things that are sinful, and may fail to show\nthe new life in Christ in many situations where we should. But in any\nChristian there had better be the basic change in orientation that\nJesus calls being born again.\n\n--clh]\n',
'From: ray@engr.LaTech.edu (Bill Ray)\nSubject: Re: Acutane, Fibromyalgia Syndrome and CFS\nOrganization: Louisiana Tech University\nLines: 8\nNNTP-Posting-Host: ee02.engr.latech.edu\nX-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]\n\nDaniel Prince (Daniel.Prince@f129.n102.z1.calcom.socal.com) wrote:\n\n: ... I think they should rename Waco TX to Wacko TX!\n\nI know it is just a joke, but please remember: the people of Waco\ndid not ask David Koresh to be a lunatic there, he just happened.\nWaco is a lovely town. I would think someone living in the home\nof flakes and nut would be more sensitive :-)\n',
"From: wquinnan@sdcc13.ucsd.edu (Malcusco)\nSubject: Re: When are two people married in God's eyes?\nOrganization: University of California, San Diego\nLines: 59\n\nIn article <Apr.16.23.18.04.1993.1876@geneva.rutgers.edu> rob@ll.mit.edu writes:\n>I think it was Lewis who said that in a wedding, it's the principals \n>that marry each other; the church and the state are present merely as \n>witnesses.\n>\n>[This is not just Lewis -- it's a summary of standard Catholic\n>theology. However this doesn't mean that the presence of those\n>witnesses is optional, except in odd situations like the standard\n>desert island. --clh]\n\n\tI originally wrote to the person who asked this question\npersonally, but decided to post the information I had on the topic.\n\n\tI spoke to the pastor of my parish (Catholic) recently, \nby coincidence, on this subject. His explaination was that \nwhile it is possible for a couple to marry without the presence\nof a priest, it is important to have it recognized by the \nChurch as soon as it is possible. Because the Church \nrecoginizes itself as a community of believers, members\nof the church, to some degree, are to be held accountable\nto each other. To be less hypothetical than that mythical\ncouple on the desert island, there are many places in the\nworld that do not have priests availible for marriages\non a regular basis. Therefore, couples get married without\nthe priest being present, but get the priest to testify to\ntheir marriage when one comes through the area. \n\n\tI remember a religion teacher in high school saying\nthat the marriage ceremony is not for the benefit of the couple\nas much as it is for the benefit of the community. Thus,\nmarried couples have some responsibility to the community\nto stay married, as divorce sets a bad example for the\ncommunity. Also, the couple has vowed to become one with\none another--the community should be able to rely on that \ncouple to be as one.\n\n\tWhile couples may marry without witnesses, they \nmay NOT get anulments without a priest present. An \nanulment is simply an admission of the church that what\nthey had declared a marriage was not, in fact, a marriage\nat all, for whatever reason. So don't start getting married\nin the back seat of a station wagon and giving yourselves\nanulments a half-hour later!!\n\n\tI tend to agree with the response back there that\nsaid couples become married as soon as they consumate their\nmarriage, but I would add that couples should consider their\nmarriage consumated if they have sex, whether or not they\nintended to be married, assuming they were both willing\npartners to the sexual act. The couple must be prepared\nto raise any children they may have as a result of that\nsexual act with the benefit of both parents. Sex IS a\ncommitment, I believe, in God's eyes.\n\n\tBut I'm digressing....\n\n\t\t\tGod be with you,\n\t\t\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\tMalcusco\n",
"From: snichols@adobe.com (Sherri Nichols)\nSubject: Re: Exercise and Migraine\nArticle-I.D.: adobe.1993Apr15.224049.15516\nOrganization: Adobe Systems Incorporated\nLines: 12\n\nIn article <1993Apr15.163133.25634@ntmtv> janet@ntmtv.com (Janet Jakstys) writes:\n>This isn't the first time that I've had a migraine occur after exercise.\n>I'm wondering if anyone else has had the same experience and I wonder\n>what triggers the migraine in this situation (heat buildup? dehydration?).\n>I'm not giving up tennis so is there anything I can do (besides get into \n>shape and don't play at high noon) to prevent this?\n\nI've gotten migraines after exercise, though for me it seems to be related\nto exercising without having eaten recently. \n\nSherri Nichols\nsnichols@adobe.com\n",
'From: mcovingt@aisun3.ai.uga.edu (Michael Covington)\nSubject: Re: Hell\nOrganization: AI Programs, University of Georgia, Athens\nLines: 22\n\nQuoth the Moderator:\n\n>I have to say that I some qualms about giving you this explanation,\n>because it raises additional problems: If God is the source of all\n>existence, then a complete separation from him would make existence\n>itself impossible. So, does God maintain just enough connection with\n>those who are rejected to keep them in existence so he can punish\n>them?\n\nIn a short poem ("God in His mercy made / the fixed pains of Hell"),\nC. S. Lewis expresses an idea that I\'m sure was current among others,\nbut I haven\'t be able to find its source:\n\nthat even Hell is an expression of mercy, because God limits the amount\nof separation from Him, and hence the amount of agony, that one can\nachieve.\n\n-- \n:- Michael A. Covington internet mcovingt@ai.uga.edu : *****\n:- Artificial Intelligence Programs phone 706 542-0358 : *********\n:- The University of Georgia fax 706 542-0349 : * * *\n:- Athens, Georgia 30602-7415 U.S.A. amateur radio N4TMI : ** *** ** <><\n',
"From: news@cbnewsk.att.com\nSubject: Re: What WAS the immaculate conception\nOrganization: AT&T Bell Labs\nLines: 30\n\nIn article <May.3.05.01.26.1993.9898@athos.rutgers.edu> todd@nickel.laurentian.ca writes:\n>{:> Your roommate is correct. The Immaculate Conception refers to\n>{:> the conception of Mary in Her mother's womb. \n>\n>Okay, now that we've defined the Immaculate Conception Doctrine would it\n>be possible for those more knowledgeable in the area to give the biblically\n>or other support for it. I've attempted to come to terms with it previously\n>(in an attempt to understand it for learning purposes) and haven't been able\n>to grasp the reasoning. \n>\nIt was a gift from God. I think basically the reasoning was that the\ntradition in the Church held that Mary was also without sin as was Jesus.\nAs the tenets of faith developed, particularly with Augustine, sin was\nmore and more equated with sex, and thus Mary was assumed to be a virgin\nfor life (since she never sinned, and since she was the spouse of God, etc.)\nSince we also had this notion of original sin, ie. that man is born with\na predisposition to sin, and since Mary did not have this predisposition\nbecause she did not ever sin, she didn't have original sin. When science\ndiscovered the process of conception, the next step was to assume that\nMary was conceived without original sin, the Immaculate Conception.\n\nMary at that time appeared to a girl named Bernadette at Lourdes. She \nrefered to herself as the Immaculate Conception. Since a nine year old \nwould have no way of knowing about the doctrine, the apparition was deemed\nto be true and it sealed the case for the doctrine.\n\nRCs hold that all revelation comes from two equally important sources, that\nbeing Sacred Scripture and Holy Tradition. In this case, mostly tradition.\n\nJoe Moore\n",
'From: reedr@cgsvax.claremont.edu\nSubject: Re: DID HE REALLY RISE???\nOrganization: The Claremont Graduate School\nLines: 40\n\nIn article <Apr.10.05.31.46.1993.14368@athos.rutgers.edu>, luomat@alleg.edu (Timothy J. Luoma) writes:\n> In article <Apr.9.01.11.16.1993.16937@athos.rutgers.edu> \n> \n> "Suppose you were part of the `Christian consipracy\' which was going to \n> tell people that Christ had risen. Never mind the stoning, the being \n> burned alive, the possible crucifixion ... let\'s just talk about a \n> scourging. The whip that would be used would have broken pottery, metal, \n> bone, and anything else that they could find attached to it. You would be \n> stood facing a wall, with nothing to protect you. ...\n> scream out in agony that your raw back was being torn at again. You would \n> say to yourself: `All this for a lie?\' And you had 37 more coming.\n> \n> "At the third hit you would scream out that it was all a lie, beg for them \n> to stop, and tell them that you would swear on your life that it had all \n> been a lie, if they would only stop...."\n\nNo one was ever flogged, beaten, burned, fed to the lions, or killed in any\nother way because of a belief in the resurrection - sorry to disappoint you.\nThe idea of resurrection is one which can be found in a host of different\nforms in the religions of antiquity. The problem was not the resurrection\nwhich was a mediorce issue for a tiny fragment of the Jewish population \n(the Saducees) but was a non issues for everyone else. The real problem was\nthat Christians were pacifist and preached there was only one god. When the\nstate operates by a system of divinitation of the emperor - monotheism \nbecomes a capital offense. The Jews were able to get exemption from this,\nand were also not evangelistic. Christians were far more vocal, and gentile,\nand hence dangerous and were therefore targets of persecution. Also since\nChristians were a relatively powerless group, they made good scapegoats as is\nseen by Nero\'s blaming them for the burning of Rome. Let\'s not cloud the\nissues with the resurrection.\n\nrandy\n\n[I agree with you that Christians were not persecuted specifically\nbecause they believed in resurrection. However the beliefs that did\ncause trouble were dependent on belief in the resurrection of Jesus.\nOf course the problem with it is that there are alternatives other\nthan a great conspiracy. The most common theory among non-Christians\nscholars seems to be that the resurrection was a subjective event --\nin effect, a delusion. --clh]\n',
'From: geb@cs.pitt.edu (Gordon Banks)\nSubject: Re: Sinus vs. Migraine (was Re: Sinus Endoscopy)\nReply-To: geb@cs.pitt.edu (Gordon Banks)\nOrganization: Univ. of Pittsburgh Computer Science\nLines: 16\n\nIn article <Lauger-240393141539@lauger.mdc.com> Lauger@ssdgwy.mdc.com (John Lauger) writes:\n>In article <19201@pitt.UUCP>, geb@cs.pitt.edu (Gordon Banks) wrote:\n\n>What\'s the best approach to getting off the analgesics. Is there something\n\nTwo approaches that I\'ve used: Tofranil, 50 mg qhs, Naproxen 250mg bid.\nThe Naproxen doesn\'t seem to be as bad as things like Tylenol in promoting\nthe analgesic abuse Headache. DHE IV infusions for about 3 days (in\nhospital). Cold turkey is the only way I think. Tapering doesn\'t\nhelp. I wouldn\'t know how you can do this without your doctor. I haven\'t\nseen anyone successfully do it alone. Doesn\'t mean it can\'t be done.\n-- \n----------------------------------------------------------------------------\nGordon Banks N3JXP | "Skepticism is the chastity of the intellect, and\ngeb@cadre.dsl.pitt.edu | it is shameful to surrender it too soon." \n----------------------------------------------------------------------------\n',
'From: vbv@r2d2.eeap.cwru.edu (Virgilio (Dean) B. Velasco Jr.)\nSubject: Re: The arrogance of Christians\nOrganization: Case Western Reserve Univ. Cleveland, Ohio (USA)\nLines: 56\n\nIn article <Apr.10.05.32.29.1993.14388@athos.rutgers.edu> caralv@caralv.auto-trol.com (Carol Alvin) writes:\n>vbv@r2d2.eeap.cwru.edu (Virgilio (Dean) B. Velasco Jr.) writes:\n>\n>No, IMO, Mr. Stowell missed the point.\n>\n>> \t"We affirm the absolutes of Scripture, not because we are arrogant\n>> moralists, but because we believe in God who is truth, who has revealed His\n>> truth in His Word, and therefore we hold as precious the strategic importance\n>> of those absolutes."\n>\n>Mr. Stowell seems to have jumped rather strangely from truth to absolutes.\n>I don\'t see how that necessarily follows. \n>\n>Are all truths also absolutes?\n>Is all of scripture truths (and therefore absolutes)?\n>\n>If the answer to either of these questions is no, then perhaps you can \n>explain to me how you determine which parts of Scripture are truths, and\n>which truths are absolutes. \n\nThe answer to both questions is yes.\n\nAll Scripture is true, being inspired by God. The evidence for this\nclaim has been discussed ad nauseum in this group.\n\nSimilarly, all truth is absolute. Indeed, a non-absolute truth is a \ncontradiction in terms. When is something absolute? When it is always\ntrue. Obviously, if a "truth" is not always "true" then we have a\ncontradiction in terms. \n\nMany people claim that there are no absolutes in the world. Such a\nstatement is terribly self-contradictory. Let me put it to you this\nway. If there are no absolutes, shouldn\'t we conclude that the statement,\n"There are no absolutes" is not absolutely true? Obviously, we have a\ncontradiction here.\n\nThis is just one of the reasons why Christians defy the world by claiming\nthat there are indeed absolutes in the universe.\n\n>There is hardly consensus, even in evangelical \n>Christianity (not to mention the rest of Christianity) regarding \n>Biblical interpretation.\n\nSo? People sometimes disagree about what is true. This does not negate\nthe fact, however, that there are still absolutes in the universe. Moreover,\nevangelical Christianity, at least, still professes to believe in certain\ntruths. Man is sinful, man needs salvation, and Jesus is the propitiation\nfor mankind\'s sins, to name a few. Any group that does not profess to\nbelieve these statements cannot be accurately called evangelical.\n\n\n-- \nVirgilio "Dean" Velasco Jr, Department of Electrical Eng\'g and Applied Physics \n\t CWRU graduate student, roboticist-in-training and Q wannabee\n "Bullwinkle, that man\'s intimidating a referee!" | My boss is a \n "Not very well. He doesn\'t look like one at all!" | Jewish carpenter.\n',
'From: kempmp@phoenix.oulu.fi (Petri Pihko)\nSubject: Re: Idle questions for fellow atheists\nOrganization: University of Oulu, Finland\nX-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]\nLines: 59\n\nacooper@mac.cc.macalstr.edu wrote:\n \n: I wonder how many atheists out there care to speculate on the face of\n: the world if atheists were the majority rather than the minority group\n: of the population. \n\nI\'ve been thinking about this every now and then since I cut my ties\nwith Christianity. It is surprising to note that a large majority of\npeople, at least in Finland, seem to be apatheists - even though\n90 % of the population are members of the Lutheran Church of Finland,\nreligious people are actually a minority. \n\nCould it be possible that many people believe in god "just in case"?\nIt seems people do not want to seek the truth; they fall prey to Pascal\'s\nWager or other poor arguments. A small minority of those who do believe\nreads the Bible regularly. The majority doesn\'t care - it believes,\nbut doesn\'t know what or how. \n\nPeople don\'t usually allow their beliefs to change their lifestyle,\nthey only want to keep the virtual gate open. A Christian would say\nthat they are not "born in the Spirit", but this does not disturb them.\nReligion is not something to think about. \n\nI\'m afraid a society with a true atheist majority is an impossible\ndream. Religions have a strong appeal to people, nevertheless - \na promise of life after death is something humans eagerly listen to.\nCoupled with threats of eternal torture and the idea that our\nmorality is under constant scrutiny of some cosmic cop, too many\npeople take the poison with a smile. Or just pretend to swallow\n(and unconsciously hope god wouldn\'t notice ;-) )\n\n: Also, how many atheists out there would actually take the stance and accor a\n: higher value to their way of thinking over the theistic way of thinking. The\n: typical selfish argument would be that both lines of thinking evolved from the\n: same inherent motivation, so one is not, intrinsically, different from the\n: other, qualitatively. But then again a measuring stick must be drawn\n: somewhere, and if we cannot assign value to a system of beliefs at its core,\n: than the only other alternative is to apply it to its periphery; ie, how it\n: expresses its own selfishness.\n\nIf logic and reason are valued, then I would claim that atheistic thinking\nis of higher value than the theistic exposition. Theists make unnecessary\nassumptions they believe in - I\'ve yet to see good reasons to believe\nin gods, or to take a leap of faith at all. A revelation would do.\n\nHowever, why do we value logic and reasoning? This questions bears\nsome resemblance to a long-disputed problem in science: why mathematics\nworks? Strong deep structuralists, like Atkins, have proposed that\nperhaps, after all, everything _is_ mathematics. \n\nIs usefulness any criterion?\n\nPetri\n\n--\n ___. .\'*\'\'.* Petri Pihko kem-pmp@ Mathematics is the Truth.\n!___.\'* \'.\'*\' \' . Pihatie 15 C finou.oulu.fi Physics is the Rule of\n \' *\' .* \'* SF-90650 OULU kempmp@ the Game.\n *\' * .* FINLAND phoenix.oulu.fi -> Chemistry is The Game.\n',
'From: hudson@athena.cs.uga.edu (Paul Hudson Jr)\nSubject: Re: Hell_2: Black Sabbath\nOrganization: University of Georgia, Athens\nLines: 8\n\nIn article <Apr.22.00.57.03.1993.2118@geneva.rutgers.edu> jprzybyl@skidmore.edu (jennifer przybylinski) writes:\n>I may be wrong, but wasn\'t Jeff Fenholt part of Black Sabbath? \n\nYes, he was. He also played Jesus in "Jesus Christ Superstar" before \nhe became a Christian. He played in Black Sabbath right after he first \ngot saved, but then left it.\n\nLink Hudson.\n',
'From: geb@cs.pitt.edu (Gordon Banks)\nSubject: Re: "Exercise" Hypertension\nReply-To: geb@cs.pitt.edu (Gordon Banks)\nOrganization: Univ. of Pittsburgh Computer Science\nLines: 18\n\nIn article <93084.140929RFM@psuvm.psu.edu> RFM@psuvm.psu.edu writes:\n>I took a stress test a couple weeks back, and results came back noting\n>"Exercise" Hypertension. Fool that I am, I didn\'t ask Doc what this meant,\n>and she didn\'t explain; and now I\'m wondering. Can anyone out there\n>enlighten. And I promise, next time I\'ll ask!\n\nProbably she meant that your blood pressure went up while you were on\nthe treadmill. This is normal. You\'ll have to ask her if this is\nwhat she meant, since no one else can answer for another person.\n\n\n\n\n-- \n----------------------------------------------------------------------------\nGordon Banks N3JXP | "Skepticism is the chastity of the intellect, and\ngeb@cadre.dsl.pitt.edu | it is shameful to surrender it too soon." \n----------------------------------------------------------------------------\n',
'From: daveshao@leland.stanford.edu (David Shao)\nSubject: Divorce\nOrganization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA\nLines: 72\n\nI deleted much of the following article in order to discuss the \nspecific issue of whether it is acceptable to divorce. \n\nIn article <May.7.01.10.03.1993.14583@athos.rutgers.edu> crs@carson.u.washington.edu (Cliff Slaughterbeck) writes:\n>\n>Along the way, she was married, happily, to a wonderful and\n>supportive husband and gave birth to two sons. Still, everything was not\n>perfect for Jane, since she could never open up the deepest part of her\n>soul to her husband. She always found that she could be much closer to\n>her women friends than to her husband, as good and loing as a husband as\n>he might be. She struggled very much with this until at the age of 38, she\n>decided that she was a lesbian. When she came home to announce this \n>understanding of herself, her husband told her that he had come to the same\n>understanding several years before and was waiting for her to come to that\n>realization in her own time. Her children ages 9 and 11 at the time were\n>also extremely supportive of her. As the youngest put it, "that just \n>means that you love people very much." Jane and her husband agreed to\n>divorce but remain friends and still consider each other as part of the\n>extended family to this day.\n\n>One of the interesting things that Jane said in this whole discussion was\n>"Homosexuality is not about what goes on in the bedroom." She found that\n>she was much more able to have a deep, committed relationship with a woman\n>than a man. Sex, in her mind, is only a part of the whole relationship.\n>The key thing is how one interconnects with other people. She made a\n>specific point to say that it was not that she had never met a good man,\n>since she was married to a wonderful man for a dozen years. (Take a few\n>seconds and honestly ponder that thought and it\'s implications!!!)\n\nI have thought about the implications, and it is scary. \n\nWe have a whole generation of families broken up because some men have \ndecided that is is okay to leave their wives and children for the\nthrill of a younger, more attractive woman. If we accept that it is\nlegitimate for Jane to have divorced, how can we not accept anyone\'s\ndecision to divorce because he has found someone with whom he can\nhave a more "deep, committed relationship."\n\nMarriage is not a state of being, it is a mutual journey in life.\nLove is not a passive feeling, it must be actively willed.\n\nIs it acceptable for an older executive to dump his wife of many \nyears who stayed home to care for the children because he\ncan\'t be happy sexually unless he is with a beautiful\nyoung blonde? The real solution for both in the couple to\nmake a renewed effort. \n\nHold fast to the faith. Has not the Lord repeatedly compared His\nrelation to His people as a faithful and enduring husband? We\nlearn something very deep and very mystical when we marry and\nremain faithful through times of trial.\n\nMy spouse has a brain tumor that has left her partially paralyzed.\nIf it were to resume growing (it is in remission, thanks be to God!)\nthen perhaps the time would come when we could not have sexual\nrelations. That\'s life...the Lord would certainly not give me\npermission to seek someone else to satisfy my "needs." \n\nThe idea that it is alright to divorce if a couple "grows apart"\nseems to me to lead to such a monstrous destruction of the meaning\nof marriage that I feel we must make every effort to avoid any hint\nof compromise. We have become so petty and small-minded that\nsome husbands are threatening to divorce their wives unless the\nwives lose weight!\n\nI praise the Lord for guiding me to marry my wife. She married me\nanyway despite the possibility that I could have a terrible illness.\nAnd it turned out that she was the one with the brain tumor, but\nhad I known I wouldn\'t have cared either. And maybe I\'ll be in\na car accident tomorrow and become paralyzed from the neck down.\nA married couple should deal with these situations with the help\nof the Lord, not divorce and run away from them.\n',
'From: 9051467f@levels.unisa.edu.au (The Desert Brat)\nSubject: Victims of various \'Good Fight\'s\nOrganization: Cured, discharged\nLines: 30\n\nIn article <9454@tekig7.PEN.TEK.COM>, naren@tekig1.PEN.TEK.COM (Naren Bala) writes:\n\n> LIST OF KILLINGS IN THE NAME OF RELIGION \n> 1. Iran-Iraq War: 1,000,000\n> 2. Civil War in Sudan: 1,000,000\n> 3, Riots in India-Pakistan in 1947: 1,000,000\n> 4. Massacares in Bangladesh in 1971: 1,000,000\n> 5. Inquistions in America in 1500s: x million (x=??)\n> 6. Crusades: ??\n\n7. Massacre of Jews in WWII: 6.3 million\n8. Massacre of other \'inferior races\' in WWII: 10 million\n9. Communist purges: 20-30 million? [Socialism is more or less a religion]\n10. Catholics V Protestants : quite a few I\'d imagine\n11. Recent goings on in Bombay/Iodia (sp?) area: ??\n12. Disease introduced to Brazilian * oher S.Am. tribes: x million\n\n> -- Naren\n\nThe Desert Brat\n-- \nJohn J McVey, Elc&Eltnc Eng, Whyalla, Uni S Australia, ________\n9051467f@levels.unisa.edu.au T.S.A.K.C. \\/Darwin o\\\nFor replies, mail to whjjm@wh.whyalla.unisa.edu.au /\\________/\nDisclaimer: Unisa hates my opinions. bb bb\n+------------------------------------------------------+-----------------------+\n|"It doesn\'t make a rainbow any less beautiful that we | "God\'s name is smack |\n|understand the refractive mechanisms that chance to | for some." |\n|produce it." - Jim Perry, perry@dsinc.com | - Alice In Chains |\n+------------------------------------------------------+-----------------------+\n',
'From: mmm@cup.portal.com (Mark Robert Thorson)\nSubject: Re: Eumemics (was: Eugenics)\nOrganization: The Portal System (TM)\n <79700@cup.portal.com> <lt03anINNm6n@saltillo.cs.utexas.edu>\nLines: 41\n\nA person posted certain stuff to this newsgroup, which were highly\nselected quotes stripped of their context. Here is the complete\nposting which was quoted (lacking the context of other postings in \nwhich it was made):\n\n> Probably within 50 years, a new type of eugenics will be possible.\n> Maybe even sooner. We are now mapping the human genome. We will\n> then start to work on manipulation of that genome. Using genetic\n> engineering, we will be able to insert whatever genes we want.\n> No breeding, no "hybrids", etc. The ethical question is, should\n> we do this? Should we make a race of disease-free, long-lived,\n> Arnold Schwartzenegger-muscled, supermen? Even if we can.\n\nProbably within 50 years, it will be possible to disassemble and\nre-assemble our bodies at the molecular level. Not only will flawless\ncosmetic surgery be possible, but flawless cosmetic PSYCHOSURGERY.\n\nWhat will it be like to store all the prices of shelf-priced bar-coded\ngoods in your head, and catch all the errors they make in the store\'s\nfavor at SAFEWAY? What will it be like to mentally edit and spell-\ncheck your responses to the questions posed by a phone caller selling\nVACATION TIME-SHARE OPTIONS?\n\nIndeed, we are today a nation at risk! The threat is not from bad genes,\nbut bad memes! Memes are the basic units of culture, as opposed to genes\nwhich are the units of genetics.\n\nWe stand on the brink of new meme-amplification technologies! Harmful\nmemes which formerly were restricted in their destructive power will\nrun rampant over the countryside, laying waste to the real benefits that\nfuture technology has to offer.\n\nFor example, Jeremy Rifkin has been busy trying to whip up emotions\nagainst the new genetically engineered tomatoes under development at\nCALGENE. This guy is inventing harmful memes, a virtual memetic Typhoid\nMary.\n\nWe must expand the public-health laws to include quarantine of people\nwith harmful memes. They should not be allowed to infect other people\nwith their memes against genetically-engineered food, electromagnetic\nfields, and the Space Shuttle solid rocket boosters.\n',
"From: rowlands@pocomoco.NoSubdomain.NoDomain (Jon Rowlands)\nSubject: Re: More gray levels out of the screen\nNntp-Posting-Host: pocomoco.hc.ti.com\nReply-To: rowlands@hc.ti.com (Jon Rowlands)\nOrganization: Texas Instruments, SPDC, DSP Technology Branch, Dallas\nLines: 51\n\nIn article <1pp991$t63@cc.tut.fi>, jk87377@lehtori.cc.tut.fi (Kouhia Juhana)\nwrites:\n>In article <1993Apr5.040819.14943@kpc.com> hollasch@kpc.com (Steve\n>Hollasch) writes:\n>>\n>> I think you're proposal would work to get an extra one, maybe two extra\n>>bits of color resolution. However, if you had a display that chould do only\n>>zero or full intensity for each primary, I don't think you'd get great\n>>equivalent 24-bit photographs.\n>\n>I have not suggested to do so; I wrote about problems, and the problem\n>were clearly visible with 7 bit b&w images; not to mention 24 bit images.\n\n[ description of experiment deleted ]\n\n>If the 1 bit images are viewed quickly and in sync with screen,\n>then 100 intensities could be better than we have -- I dunno.\n\n[ more deleted ]\n\n>In any case, getting black color with slow machines is problem.\n>I could try it on our 8 bit screens but I don't know how to\n>render pixels with X in constant time. I recall our double buffer\n>has other image color and one b&w -- that doesn't help either.\n>Maybe I should dump photos to screen with low level code; how?\n\nA few years ago a friend and I took some 256 grey-level photos from\na 1 bit Mac Plus screen using this method. Displaying all 256 levels\nsynchronized to the 60Hz display took about 10 seconds. After\nexperimenting with different aperture settings and screen\nbrightnesses we found a range that worked well, giving respectable\ncontrast. The quality of the images was pretty good. There were no\nvisible contrast bands.\n\nTo minimize the exposure time the display program built 255\ndifferent 1 bit frames. The first contained a dot only for pixels\nthat had value 255, the second only for pixels that had value 254,\netc. These frames were stored using a sparse data structure that was\nvery fast to 'or' onto the screen in sequence. Creating these\nframes sometimes took 5-10 minutes on that old Mac, but the camera\nshutter was closed during that time anyway. And yes, we wrote\ndirectly to the screen memory. Mea culpa.\n\nOur biggest problem was that small images were displayed in the\ntop left corner of the screen instead of the center. It took\nan extra week to have the film developed and printed, because the\nprocessors took the trouble to manually move the all images into\nthe center of the print. Who'd have guessed?\n\nregards,\nJon Rowlands\n",
'From: MANDTBACKA@FINABO.ABO.FI (Mats Andtbacka)\nSubject: Re: An Anecdote about Islam\nIn-Reply-To: jaeger@buphy.bu.edu\'s message of 5 Apr 93 16:49:14 GMT\nOrganization: Unorganized Usenet Postings UnInc.\nX-News-Reader: VMS NEWS 1.24\nLines: 24\n\nIn <114127@bu.edu> jaeger@buphy.bu.edu writes:\n\n[deletia]\n\n> I don\'t understand the point of this petty sarcasm. It is a basic \n> principle of Islam that if one is born muslim or one says "I testify\n> that there is no god but God and Mohammad is a prophet of God" that,\n> so long as one does not explicitly reject Islam by word then one _must_\n> be considered muslim by all muslims. So the phenomenon you\'re attempting\n> to make into a general rule or psychology is a direct odds with basic\n> Islamic principles. If you want to attack Islam you could do better than\n> than to argue against something that Islam explicitly contradicts.\n\n In the deletions somewhere, it mentioned something about chopping\noff of hands being a punishment for theft in Saudi Arabia. Assuming this\nis so (I wouldn\'t know), and assuming it is done by people fitting your\nrequirement for "muslim" (which I find highly likely), then would you\nplease try to convince Bobby Mozumder that muslims chop people\'s hands\noff?\n\n Come back when you\'ve succeeded.\n\n-- \n Disclaimer? "It\'s great to be young and insane!"\n',
'From: ide!twelker@uunet.uu.net (Steve Twelker)\nSubject: Re: The arrogance of Christians\nOrganization: Interactive Development Environmenmts, SF\nLines: 63\n\n>\tWhy do we follow God so blindly? Have you ever asked a\n>physically blind person why he or she follows a seeing eye dog?\n>The answer is quite simple--the dog can see, and the blind person\n>cannot.\n...\n>\tOf course, you may ask, if I cannot trust my own senses,\n>how do I know whether what I see and hear about God is truth or\n>a lie. That is why we need faith to be saved. We must force\n>ourselves to believe that God knows the truth, and loves us\n>enough to share it with us, even when it defies what we think\n>we know. Why would He have created us if He did not love us \n>enough to help us through this world?\n\n\nSeems to me if you learned to differentiate between illusion and\nreality on your own you wouldn\'t need to rely on doctrines that\nneed to be updated. My experience of Christianity (25+ years) is\nthat most Christians seek answers from clergymen who have little\nor no direct experience of spiritual matters, and that most of\nthese questions can be answered by simple introspection. Most\npeople suspect that they cannot trust their senses, but few take\nthe next step to figure out that they can trust themselves. Not to\nget too esoteric, but it seems that most religions, Christianity\nincluded, are founded by particularly intuitive people who understand\nthis.\n\n(stuff deleted)\n\n>\tAs for you, no one can "convert" you. You must\n>choose to follow God of your own will, if you are ever to\n>follow Him. All we as Christians wish to do is share with\n>you the love we have received from God. If you reject that,\n>we have to accept your decision, although we always keep\n>the offer open to you. If you really want to find out\n>why we believe what we believe, I can only suggest you try\n>praying for faith, reading the Bible, and asking Christians\n>about their experiences personally....\n\nAnd what if the original poster, Pixie, is never "converted?"\nDoes it make sense that she (or I, or the majority of humanity\nfor that matter) would go to hell for eternity, as many \nChristians believe? It makes more sense to me that rather\nthan be converted to a centuries-old doctrine that holds no\nlife for her, that she simply continue to decide for herself\nwhat is best. \n\n--------------------------------------------\n\n[You may be right about Christians relying on clergy, but I have some\nreason to hope you\'re not. Protestants emphasize conversion,\nexperience of the Holy Spirit, and use of the Bible. This is intended\nto make sure that Christians have religious experience of their own,\nand that they have some basis on which to judge claims of clergy and\nother Christians. I can\'t speak for Catholics and Orthodox, but I\nbelieve they also attempt to avoid having members who simply repeat\nwhat they are told. I admit that this isn\'t always successful -- we\ncertainly see young people join our church because at that age parents\nexpect it. But most of our members do seem quite able and willing to\nmake judgements for themselves, and have a commitment that comes out\nof their own experience. Unfortunately, it\'s the nature of Usenet\nthat doctrinal disagreements get emphasized, so it looks like we spend\nmost of our time dealing with doctrine. That\'s certainly not my\nexperience of the way Christians really live. --clh]\n',
'From: jodfishe@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (joseph dale fisher)\nSubject: Re: Christians that are not church members\nOrganization: Indiana University\nLines: 51\n\nHere are some notes about what the church is to be like and some helpful\nideas about how to choose a church:\n\nColossians 1:15-18\n A. Jesus is the head of the body, the church\n B. You cannot say "yes" to Jesus, but "no" to the church\n\nEphesians 2:19-22\n A. The church is the family of God\n B. The church is based on the Word of God only\n Cornerstone=Christ\n Foundation= Apostles=New Testament\n Prophets=Old Testament (see Revelation 21:9-14)\n\n1 Corinthians 12:12-13\n A. Baptism is when we become a member of the church\n\nAs for the question of denominations:\n A. The Bible teaches that there is only ONE church from Ephesians\n4:4-6, Romans 12:4-5, 1 Corinthians 12:12-13\n B. 1 Corinthians 1:10-13 says that there should be no divisions in\nthe church. There should be no following of personalities in the church\n(and in time, their writings)\n C. There are so many churches today because of a problem. 2 Timothy\n4:1-4 says that people will turn away from the truth and try to find a\nchurch that teaches a doctrine that suits their lifestyle\n\nHebrews 10:24-25\n A. Do not miss church\n B. Purpose is to encourage each other, so we will remain faithful.\nInvolved on a relationship level in the church\n C. Must come to ALL services\n\nAnother verse which is helpful is Hebrews 3:12-15. The church should be\nencouraging daily, as it is their duty to do.\n\nOf course, more standards apply:\n 1 Timothy 4:16 People in the church should be watching their lives\nand doctrines to make sure they both live up to the Word entirely (ie,\ndisciples).\n Acts 17:10-12 The pastor does not come close to the Apostle Paul\n(natural conclusion since the Apostle Paul talked with Jesus directly\nface to face), so if the Bereans, who were considered noble, didn\'t take\nPaul at his word but checked out what he said with Scripture to verify\nhis statements, then church members are to do the same and verify the\npastor\'s statements. If they are not verifiable or valid in light of\nother verses, then that group should be avoided as a church (would\'ve\nmade a wonderful suggestion to the Waco group, especially in light of\nMatthew 24).\n\nJoe Fisher\n',
'From: JDB1145@tamvm1.tamu.edu\nSubject: Re: A Little Too Satanic\nOrganization: Texas A&M University\nLines: 21\nNNTP-Posting-Host: tamvm1.tamu.edu\n\nIn article <65934@mimsy.umd.edu>\nmangoe@cs.umd.edu (Charley Wingate) writes:\n \n>\n>Nanci Ann Miller writes:\n>\n]The "corrupted over and over" theory is pretty weak. Comparison of the\n]current hebrew text with old versions and translations shows that the text\n]has in fact changed very little over a space of some two millennia. This\n]shouldn\'t be all that suprising; people who believe in a text in this manner\n]are likely to makes some pains to make good copies.\n \nTell it to King James, mate.\n \n]C. Wingate + "The peace of God, it is no peace,\n] + but strife closed in the sod.\n]mangoe@cs.umd.edu + Yet, brothers, pray for but one thing:\n]tove!mangoe + the marv\'lous peace of God."\n \n \nJohn Burke, jdb1145@summa.tamu.edu\n',
'From: xx155@yfn.ysu.edu (Family Magazine Sysops)\nSubject: THE EMPTY TOMB...\nReply-To: xx155@yfn.ysu.edu (Family Magazine Sysops)\nOrganization: St. Elizabeth Hospital, Youngstown, OH\nLines: 218\n\n\n \n THE EMPTY TOMB: CAN WE TRUST IT?\n\n by the late Wilbur M. Smith, D.D.\n (1894-1977)\n\n When Jesus was on Earth, He made an amazing prediction about\n Himself, and frequently repeated it. Let me quote it for you:\n\n Behold, we go up to Jerusalem; and the Son\n of Man shall be betrayed unto the chief\n priests and unto the scribes, and they shall\n condemn Him to death, and shall deliver Him\n to the Gentiles to mock, and to scourge, and\n to crucify Him; and the third day He shall\n rise again" (Matthew 20:18-19).\n\n Wholly different from the normal experience of men, Jesus,\n who had *never* done anything worthy of death, even deserving\n reproval, knew He would die before He was 40 years of age. He\n knew the very city where He would die. He knew that the religious\n leaders of His own race would condemn Him to death. He knew that\n one of His own would betray Him. He knew that before His actual\n death took place He would be mocked and scourged. He knew exactly\n how He would die--*by crucifixion.*\n\n All this is in itself remarkable. But more amazing than the\n minute particulars of His foreknowledge was what He predicted\n would follow shortly after He was buried--*that He would rise\n again.* He even designated the time--on the third day.\n\n But since it is on this central fact--the death and resurrec-\n tion of Jesus Christ--that the whole truth or untruth of Chris-\n tianity turns, let us examine it more closely.\n\n The body of Jesus was embalmed in long sheets of cloth\n between the layers of which a great abundance of spices and\n ointments was distributed. The body was placed in a tomb which\n had never before been used, and a great stone was rolled against\n the entrance. The Jewish authorities, fully aware that Jesus had\n predicted He would rise again, had the stone officially sealed and\n on Saturday placed a guard before the tomb to prevent the\n disciples from carrying away the body. Early Sunday morning some\n of the women who were faithful followers of Christ went out to the\n tomb to further anoint the body. To their utter astonishment,\n they found the stone rolled away, the body gone. They rushed back\n to tell the disciples. Shortly two of Jesus\' friends, Peter and\n John, utterly skeptical about the whole affair, came and found the\n tomb empty, just as the women had said. Even the guards came\n hurrying into the city to tell the Sanhedrin that had hired them\n to guard the tomb that the body was gone (Matthew 28:11).\n\n How did this tomb become empty?\n\n One of the most famous New Testament scholars in America--\n professor of New Testament literature in a large theological\n seminary--wrote to the author in answer to my question of *how*\n the tomb became empty, and wrote it in a letter *not* marked by\n bitterness or sarcasm, that he could no more explain how the tomb\n became empty than he could explain how Santa Claus comes down the\n chimney at Christmas time.\n\n But he didn\'t realize that Santa Clause never did come down\n any chimney at Christmas time, *because there never was a Santa\n Claus!* ...And there *is* a Jesus. He died; He was buried in the\n tomb of Joseph of Arimathea, and on Sunday the body was gone.\n\n Those are facts of history. No one can escape the responsi-\n bility of coming to some conclusion about what really happened by\n mentioning a myth we all abandoned before we were eight years old.\n\n Another professor, Dr. Kirsopp Lake of Harvard University,\n tried to explain the empty tomb by saying (what no other scholar\n in the field of New Testament criticism has ventured to adopt)\n that the women went to the wrong tomb.\n\n The facts are these:\n\n First, so far as we know, there was no other tomb nearby to\n which by mistake they could have gone.\n\n Second, it is contrary to all similar experience for three or\n more people to forget the place where they have buried their\n dearest loved one within less than three days. Even if the women\n did miss the tomb, when Peter and John came, did they too go to\n the wrong tomb?\n\n Third, were the soldiers *guarding* the wrong tomb?\n\n There is, of course, a record of an attempt to escape the\n evidence of the empty tomb in the New Testament itself.\n\n Now when they were going, behold, some\n of the watch came into the city and showed\n unto the chief priests all the things that\n were done. And when they were assembled\n with the leaders and had taken counsel, they\n gave large money unto the soldiers, Saying,\n Say ye, His disciples came by night, and stole\n Him away while we slept. And if this come to\n the governor\'s ears, we will persuade him, and\n secure you. So they took the money, and did\n as they were taught: and this saying is com-\n monly reported among the Jews until this day\n (Matthew 28:11-15).\n\n This is a good illustration of many later attempts to escape the\n fact that the tomb was empty.\n\n You will notice at once that the chief priests and the elders never\n questioned but that the tomb *was* empty. They never even went out to\n see if what the guards had reported was true--they *knew* it was true.\n\n Another fact about this story makes it ridiculous to maintain that\n the tomb was empty--the soldiers were told to say that Jesus\' disciples\n came and stole the body away *while they* (the soldiers) *were asleep!*\n\n How could they know what was going on while they were asleep?\n Obviously, such testimony would be valueless in any court.\n\n Even aside from the shallowness and sordidness that make us reject\n the explanation, the very character and the later history of the\n disciples compel us to believe they did not steal and secretly carry away\n the body of Jesus.\n\n First, as Professor Heffern points out, the leaders of Judaism in\n Jerusalem, who had put the Lord Jesus to death, had nothing to offer to\n contradict these disciples as they continued to preach Jesus and His\n resurrection--because all Jerusalem knew the tomb was empty. If there\n had been trickery here, sooner or later it would have been suspected,\n then proved.\n\n Second, surely *one* of the disciples, even *most* of them, would\n have confessed the fraud under the terrific persecution they underwent.\n It may be possible to live a lie, but men seldom die for a lie--and most\n of these men did.\n\n The result ultimately would have been that the message that Christ\n had risen would have suffered the fate of all such unfounded stories--it\n would have lost it *power.* Instead, this truth swept the world, closed\n pagan temples, won millions of disciples, brought hope to a despairing\n humanity, was the very foundation truth of the early church, and is today\n as believable and as freshly glorious as ever.\n\n But not only did Jesus come alive again, He did not disappear to\n leave the disciples speculating through all the subsequent days as to\n what had happened to Him.\n\n Instead, He appeared to them--literally, visibly, frequently.\n\n He appeared to the women at the tomb on Resurrection morning\n (Matthew 28:1-10); later that day to Mary Magdalene alone (John 20:11-\n 18); and to Simon Peter, also alone (Luke 24:34). In the afternoon He\n walked with two of His followers toward Emmaus (Luke 24:13-35); and that\n night He appeared to ten of the apostles gathered together in an upper\n room at Jerusalem (Mark 16:14-16; Luke 24:36-40; etc.).\n\n A week later He appeared to all eleven of the apostles, probably at\n the same place (John 20:26-28). Once He was seen by above 500 brethren\n on a mountain in Galilee (I Corinthians 15:6); and finally to the\n apostles just before His ascension (Mark 16:19; Luke 24:50-52; Acts 1:3-\n 8).\n\n As with the fact of the empty tomb, so in regard to these histor-\n ically recorded appearances, all kinds of theories have been proposed\n attempting to deny their literalness. But these theories are\n unreasonable, without supporting evidence. None has ever won the\n unanimous approval of those who refuse to believe in the reality of the\n appearances.\n\n Moreover, while it is true we are living in an age when may of our\n leading scientists and agnostics and many of our philosophers are\n antisuperanaturalistic, let us not forget that some of the greatest\n thinkers of the ages have firmly believed in this great miracle.\n Increase Mather, president of Harvard; Timothy Dwight, president of Yale;\n Nathan Lord, president of Dartmouth; Edward Hitchcock, president of\n Amherst; Mark Hopkins, president of Williams; John Witherspoon, president\n of Princeton--these men and countless others have believed it.\n\n But suppose Christ *did* rise from the dead, what of it? What has\n it to do with *my* life? What has it to do with *your* life? Just this:\n it seals with certitude the teachings of Christ.\n\n Jesus taught many great truths--especially many about Himself. He\n claimed to have come down *from* God.\n\n He said He was the way *to* God.\n\n He said He was the Son of God, who alone knew God perfectly.\n\n He said that whoever believed on Him had eternal life, and no one\n else had it.\n\n He said that whatever we ask God in His name, He would grant it to\n us.\n\n Thus when He did rise from the grave on the third day, He revealed\n that in these amazing, unparalleled predictions, *He spoke the truth!*\n\n Do you know any reason, *any good reason,* why we should not believe\n that His words are all true?\n\n The point is, does not the truth of the Resurrection convince us\n that He is none other than the One He claimed to be--the Son of God?\n\n And then, of course, the fact that Christ rose from the dead\n testifies that He has broken the power of death, and that He will some\n day raise us also up from the grave, as He promised.\n\n In other words, if this Person, Jesus Christ, the Son of God, in all\n this, He should be the cornerstone of the foundation of your life. For\n He said a life built on Him would know forgiveness of sins, His compan-\n ionship and help, a joy that no circumstances can ever take away, and a\n hope that shineth more and more unto a perfect day.\n\n Those who have tried it down through the ages--*and there have been\n many*--have given their testimony. And we today who believe also know.\n',
'From: mryan@stsci.edu\nSubject: Should I be angry at this doctor?\nLines: 26\nOrganization: Space Telescope Science Institute\nDistribution: na\n\nAm I justified in being pissed off at this doctor?\n\nLast Saturday evening my 6 year old son cut his finger badly with a knife.\nI took him to a local "Urgent and General Care" clinic at 5:50 pm. The \nclinic was open till 6:00 pm. The receptionist went to the back and told the \ndoctor that we were there, and came back and told us the doctor would not \nsee us because she had someplace to go at 6:00 and did not want to be delayed \nhere. During the next few minutes, in response to my questions, with several \ntrips to the back room, the receptionist told me:\n\t- the doctor was doing paperwork in the back,\n\t- the doctor would not even look at his finger to advise us on going\n\t to the emergency room;\n\t- the doctor would not even speak to me;\n\t- she would not tell me the doctor\'s name, or her own name;\n\t- when asked who is in charge of the clinic, she said "I don\'t know."\n\nI realize that a private clinic is not the same as an emergency room, but\nI was quite angry at being turned away because the doctor did not want to\nbe bothered. My son did get three stitches at the emergency room. I\'m still \ntrying to find out who is in charge of that clinic so I can write them a \nletter. We will certainly never set foot in that clinic again.\n\n-------------------------------------------------------------------------\nMary Ryan\t\t\t\tmryan@stsci.edu\nSpace Telescope Science Institute\nBaltimore, Maryland\n',
'From: BOCHERC@hartwick.edu (Carol A. Bocher)\nSubject: Re:Major Views of the Trinity\nLines: 28\n\nAnn Jackson (ajackson@cs.ubc.ca) wrote on 5 May:\n\n>In article <May 2.09.50.06.1993.11776@geneva.rutgers.edu>\n>Jim Green writes:\n\n>>Can\'t someone describe someone\'s Trinity in simple declarative\n>>sentences with words that have common meaning?\n\n>The answer to this question appears to be "no".\n\nI would like to submit the following which helped me enormously.\nIf it has already been posted, I apologize.\n\nIt seems that during the Middle Ages, it was customary for pastors to \nexplain the Trinity to their parishoners by analogy to water.\nWater is water, but can exist in three forms--liquid, ice and vapor.\nThus it is possible for one essence to exist in three forms.\n\nAnd recently, the pastor of my church drew an analogy, which I\nalso found useful--A woman is often percieved by others in three\nways, depending on their relationship to her--a mother, a wife and\nan employee in a business.\n\nThus, it seems clear to me that the essence of God can subsist in\nthe Father, Son, and Holy Spirit or, depending on one\'s particular\nneed for Him.\n\nCarol Bocher\n',
'From: bytor@cruzio.santa-cruz.ca.us\nSubject: Lupus\nKeywords: Information wanted\nArticle-I.D.: cruzio.5254\nReply-To: bytor@cruzio.santa-cruz.ca.us\nLines: 12\n\n\nI have a friend who has just been diagnosed with Lupus, and I know nothing\nabout this disease. The only thing I do know is that this is some sort of\nskin disease, and my friend shows no skin rashes - in fact, they used a \nblood test to determine what had been wrong with an on going sacro-\nilliac joint problem. \nI am finding a hard time finding information on this disease. Could\nanyone please enlighten me as to the particulars of this disease. \nplease feel free to E-mail me at \nbytor@cruzio.santa-cruz.ca.us\n\nThanks in advance.\n',
'From: perry@dsinc.com (Jim Perry)\nSubject: Re: [soc.motss, et al.] "Princeton axes matching funds for Boy Scouts"\nArticle-I.D.: dsi.1pq6skINNhi4\nDistribution: usa\nOrganization: Decision Support Inc.\nLines: 28\nNNTP-Posting-Host: dsi.dsinc.com\n\nIn article <1993Apr3.221101.25314@midway.uchicago.edu> shou@midway.uchicago.edu writes:\n>In article <1pi0dhINN8ub@dsi.dsinc.com> perry@dsinc.com (Jim Perry) writes:\n>>Bigots never concede that their bigotry is irrational; it\n>>is other people who determine that by examining their arguments.\n>[...]\n>No! I expected it! You\'ve set yourself up a wonderful little\n>world where a bigot is whomever you say it is. This is very \n>comfortable for you--imagine, never having to entertain an\n>argument against your belief system. Simply accuse the person\n>making of being a bigot. \n\nWell, this particular thread of vituperation slopped its venom over\ninto alt.atheism, where we spend most of our time entertaining\narguments against our belief system, without resorting to accusing\nothers of bigotry. It\'s somewhat ironic that our exposure to bigotry\nhappens in this instance to have originated in rec.scouting, since I\nalways understood scouting to teach tolerance and diversity. I\nunderstand bigotry to be irrational prejudice against other people who\nhappen to be of a different race, religion, ethnic background, sex, or\nother inconsequential characteristics. All the evidence I\'ve seen\nindicates that sexual orientation and lack of belief in gods are\nexactly such inconsequential characteristics. Thus, pending further\nevidence, I conclude that those who show prejudice against such people\nare bigots, and organizations that exclude such people are\ndiscriminatory.\n-- \nJim Perry perry@dsinc.com Decision Support, Inc., Matthews NC\nThese are my opinions. For a nominal fee, they can be yours.\n',
"From: eapu207@orion.oac.uci.edu (John Peter Kondis)\nSubject: Physics lab LOSES a number!!!!\nNntp-Posting-Host: orion.oac.uci.edu\nSummary: I need a pointer address for one of those weird graphics modes.\nKeywords: VGA\nLines: 10\n\nPlease , I need the starting address (pointer) for the beginning \nof the color information (RGB) on VGA mode 68h (that's 68 hex, gee, \nduh!)...\n\nThanks SOOOO much (hugs and kisses) in advance.....\n\n.....John (at UCI)\ne-mail---> eapu207@orion.oac.uci.edu\n\n\n",
'From: cobb@alexia.lis.uiuc.edu (Mike Cobb)\nSubject: Christian Morality is\nOrganization: University of Illinois at Urbana\nLines: 51\n\nIn <11836@vice.ICO.TEK.COM> bobbe@vice.ICO.TEK.COM (Robert Beauchaine) writes:\n\n>In article <C5L1Ey.Jts@news.cso.uiuc.edu> cobb@alexia.lis.uiuc.edu (Mike \nCobb) writes:\n>>In <11825@vice.ICO.TEK.COM> bobbe@vice.ICO.TEK.COM (Robert Beauchaine) \nwrites:\n>>\n>>\n>>> Actually, my atheism is based on ignorance. Ignorance of the\n>>> existence of any god. Don\'t fall into the "atheists don\'t believe\n>>> because of their pride" mistake.\n>>\n>>How do you know it\'s based on ignorance, couldn\'t that be wrong? Why would it\n>>be wrong \n>>to fall into the trap that you mentioned? \n>>\n\n> If I\'m wrong, god is free at any time to correct my mistake. That\n> he continues not to do so, while supposedly proclaiming his\n> undying love for my eternal soul, speaks volumes.\n\nWhat are the volumes that it speaks besides the fact that he leaves your \nchoices up to you?\n\n> As for the trap, you are not in a position to tell me that I don\'t\n> believe in god because I do not wish to. Unless you can know my\n> motivations better than I do myself, you should believe me when I\n> say that I earnestly searched for god for years and never found\n> him.\n\nI definitely agree that it\'s rather presumptuous for either "side" to give some\npsychological reasoning for another\'s belief.\n\nMAC\n>/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\ \n\n>Bob Beauchaine bobbe@vice.ICO.TEK.COM \n\n>They said that Queens could stay, they blew the Bronx away,\n>and sank Manhattan out at sea.\n\n>^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^\n\n--\n****************************************************************\n Michael A. Cobb\n "...and I won\'t raise taxes on the middle University of Illinois\n class to pay for my programs." Champaign-Urbana\n -Bill Clinton 3rd Debate cobb@alexia.lis.uiuc.edu\n \nWith new taxes and spending cuts we\'ll still have 310 billion dollar deficits.\n',
'From: tedr@athena.cs.uga.edu (Ted Kalivoda)\nSubject: Rom 9-11 article ready..requests\nOrganization: University of Georgia, Athens\nLines: 14\n\nA section of Richard Badenas\' book, "Christ The End of the Law, Romans 10.14 \nin Pauline Perspective." The section I have is on the Contextual setting and \nmeaning of Romans 9-11. In addition, there are 111 endnotes.\n\nSince the file is so long, and because of other reasons, I will take requests\nfor the article personally.\n\nOf course, I believe Badenas\' insights to be true, and, quite damaging to the\ntraditional Augustinian/Calvinist view.\n\n==================================== \nTed Kalivoda (tedr@athena.cs.uga.edu)\nUniversity of Georgia, Athens\nUCNS/Institute of Higher Ed. \n',
'From: eylerken@stein.u.washington.edu (Ken Eyler)\nSubject: 3D Animation Station\nArticle-I.D.: shelley.1r75bgINNob9\nDistribution: world\nOrganization: University of Washington, Seattle\nLines: 18\nNNTP-Posting-Host: stein.u.washington.edu\n\n\n\tI am looking for some information about 3D animation stations that\nare currently on the market. The price of the station can be from 5K-20K, \nbut no more than $20,000.00. Type of workstation doesnt matter (PC, MAC, \nSGI etc..) . If you use or have bought/looked at one or can suggest your\ndream machine, then please mail me your configurations. I need the following.\n\n\t1. Type of station (PC, MAC etc.. )\n\t2. Expandibilty of the machine.\n\t3. Software that can run on it\n\t4. VTR Controller and/or VTR deck model/name.\n\t5. Vendors names and numbers.\n\nThanks in advance.\n\n\t\t\t\t\tKen Eyler\n\t\t\t\t\teylerken@u.washington.edu\n\t\t\t\t\tThe Evergreen State College\n',
'From: kilman2y@fiu.edu (Yevgeny (Gene) Kilman)\nSubject: Re: USAToday ad ("family values")\nOrganization: Florida International University, Miami\nLines: 15\n\nIn article <C4rzz2.47J@unix.portal.com> danb@shell.portal.com (Dan E Babcock) writes:\n>There was a funny ad in USAToday from "American Family Association".\n>I\'ll post a few choice parts for your enjoyment (all emphases is in\n>the ad; I\'m not adding anything). All the typos are mine. :)\n\n[Dan\'s article deleted]\n\nI found the same add in our local Sunday newspaper.\nThe add was placed in the ..... cartoon section!\nThe perfect place for it ! :-)\n\nY.K.\n\n\n\n',
'From: Lawrence Curcio <lc2b+@andrew.cmu.edu>\nSubject: Analgesics with Diuretics\nOrganization: Doctoral student, Public Policy and Management, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA\nLines: 6\nNNTP-Posting-Host: po2.andrew.cmu.edu\n\nI sometimes see OTC preparations for muscle aches/back aches that\ncombine aspirin with a diuretic. The idea seems to be to reduce\ninflammation by getting rid of fluid. Does this actually work? \n\nThanks,\n-Larry C. \n',
"From: jim.zisfein@factory.com (Jim Zisfein) \nSubject: Re: Could this be a migraine????\nDistribution: world\nOrganization: Invention Factory's BBS - New York City, NY - 212-274-8298v.32bis\nReply-To: jim.zisfein@factory.com (Jim Zisfein) \nLines: 16\n\nGB> From: geb@cs.pitt.edu (Gordon Banks)\nGB> The HMO would stop the over-ordering, but in HMOs, tests are\nGB> under-ordered.\n\nThat's a somewhat overbroad statement. I'm sure there are HMOs in\nwhich the fees for lab tests are subtracted from the doctor's\nincome. In most, however, including the one I work for, there is no\ndirect incentive to under-order. Profits of the group are shared\namong all partners, but the group is so large that an individual's\ngenerated costs have a miniscule effect. I don't believe that we\nunder-order. Then again, I'm not really sure what the right amount\nof ordering is or should be. Relative to the average British\nneurologist, I suspect that I rather drastically over-order.\n---\n . SLMR 2.1 . E-mail: jim.zisfein@factory.com (Jim Zisfein)\n \n",
"From: sandvik@newton.apple.com (Kent Sandvik)\nSubject: Re: The Inimitable Rushdie (Re: An Anecdote about Islam\nDistribution: world,public\nOrganization: Cookamunga Tourist Bureau\nLines: 19\n\nIn article <115437@bu.edu>, jaeger@buphy.bu.edu (Gregg Jaeger) wrote:\n> As I have stated on a parallel thread, I am not an anarchist, nor is\n> Islam anarchist. Therefore the UK should have control over itself. \n> However, this does not change the fact that it is possible for citizens\n> of the UK residing within the UK to be in violation of Islamic law.\n\nThis is an interesting notion -- and one I'm scared of. In my\ncase I'm a Finnish citizen, I live in USA, and I have to conform\nto the US laws. However, the Finnish government is not actively\nchecking out what I'm doing in this country, in other words checking\nout if I conform to the Finnish laws.\n\nHowever, Islamic law seems to be a 'curse' that is following you\neverywhere in the world. Shades of 1984, eh?\n\nCheers,\nKent\n---\nsandvik@newton.apple.com. ALink: KSAND -- Private activities on the net.\n",
"From: tessmann@cs.ubc.ca (Markus Tessmann)\nSubject: Re: Rumours about 3DO ???\nOrganization: Computer Science, University of B.C., Vancouver, B.C., Canada\nLines: 16\nNNTP-Posting-Host: larry.cs.ubc.ca\n\nstgprao@st.unocal.COM (Richard Ottolini) writes:\n\n>They need a hit software product to encourage software sales of the product,\n>i.e. the Pong, Pacman, VisiCalc, dBase, or Pagemaker of multi-media.\n>There are some multi-media and digital television products out there already,\n>albeit, not as capable as 3DO's. But are there compelling reasons to buy\n>such yet? Perhaps someone in this news group will write that hit software :-)\n\nI've just had the good fortune to be hired by Electronic Arts as Senior\nComputer Graphics Artist at the Vancouver, Canada office. :^)\n\nThe timing has a lot to do with the 3DO which EA is putting a lot of resources\ninto. I do not know of any titles to be developed as yet but will be happy to\npost as things develop. I start there May 3.\n\n\tMarkus Tessmann\n",
'From: creps@lateran.ucs.indiana.edu (Stephen A. Creps)\nSubject: Re: quality of Catholic liturgy\nOrganization: Indiana University\nLines: 72\n\nIn article <Apr.10.05.30.16.1993.14313@athos.rutgers.edu> jemurray@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (John E Murray) writes:\n>Example. Last Sunday (Palm Sunday) we went to the local church. Usually\n>on Palm Sunday, the congregation participates in reading the Passion, taking\n>the role of the mob. The theology behind this seems profound--when we say\n>"Crucify him" we mean it. We did it, and if He came back today we\'d do it\n>again. It always gives me chills. But last week we were "invited" to sit\n>during the Gospel (=Passion) and _listen_. Besides the Orwellian "invitation", \n\n On Palm Sunday at our parish, we were "invited" to take the role of\nJesus in the Passion. I declined to participate. Last year at the\nliturgy meeting I pointed out how we crucify Christ by our sins, so\ntherefore it is appropriate that we retain the role of the crowd, but\nto no avail.\n\n>musicians, readers, and so on. New things are introduced in the course of the\n>liturgy and since no one knows what\'s happening, the new things have to be\n>explained, and pretty soon instead of _doing_ a lot of the Mass we\'re just\n>sitting there listening (or spacing out, in my case) to how the Mass is about\n>to be done. In my mind, I lay the blame on liturgy committees made up of lay\n>"experts", but that may not be just. I do think that a liturgy committee has a\n>bias toward doing something rather than nothing--that\'s just a fact of\n>bureaucratic life--even though a simpler liturgy may in fact make it easier for\n>people to be aware of the Lord\'s presence.\n\n As a member of a liturgy committee, I can tell you that the problem\nis certain people dominating, who want to try out all kinds of\ninnovations. The priests don\'t seem even to _want_ to make any\ndecisions of their own in many cases. I guess it\'s easier to "try\nsomething new" than it is to refuse to allow it.\n\n At our parish on Holy Thursday, instead of the priests washing feet\n("Who wants to get around people\'s feet," according to one of our\npriests) the congregation was "invited" to come up and help wash one\nanother\'s hands.\n\n The symbolism of this action distressed me, and again I refused to\nparticipate. I thought that if we were to have to come up with\nrubrics for this liturgical action (i.e. "Body of Christ" -- "Amen"\nfor receiving Communion), that they could be "I am not responsible for\nthe blood of this man."\n\n Also for part of the Eucharistic Prayer ("Blessed are You, God of\nall creation...") was substituted some text read by a lay couple. The\npriest certainly should not have given this part of the Mass over to\nothers, and I was so disturbed that I declined to receive Communion\nthat night (we aren\'t required to anyway -- I instead offered up\nprayers for our priests and parish).\n\n>So we\'ve been wondering--are we the oddballs, or is the quality of the Mass\n>going down? I don\'t mean that facetiously. We go to Mass every Thursday or\n>Friday and are reminded of the power of a very simple liturgy to make us aware \n>of God\'s presence. But as far as the obligatory Sunday Masses...maybe I should \n>just offer it up :) Has anyone else noticed declining congregational\n>participation in Catholic Masses lately?\n\n The quality of the Mass has not changed. Again, if it were to be\ncelebrated according to the rubrics set down by the Church, it would\nstill be "liturgically" beautiful. The problem comes about from\npeople trying to be "creative" who are not.\n\n I think the answer to your question on participation could be that\ngiven by Father Peter Stravinskas in answer to the question posed by\nthe title of Thomas Day\'s _Why Catholics Can\'t Sing_. "They don\'t\nwant to" because of all this nonsense.\n\n By the way, for any non-Catholics reading this, the problem does\nnot reflect bad liturgy by the Catholic Church, but by those who are\ndisobedient to the Church in changing it on their own "authority."\n\n-\t-\t-\t-\t-\t-\t-\t-\t-\t-\nSteve Creps, Indiana University\ncreps@lateran.ucs.indiana.edu\n',
'From: mhollowa@ic.sunysb.edu (Michael Holloway)\nSubject: Re: Science and methodology (was: Homeopathy ... tradition?)\nNntp-Posting-Host: engws5.ic.sunysb.edu\nOrganization: State University of New York at Stony Brook\nLines: 54\n\nIn article <1993Apr16.155919.28040@cs.rochester.edu> fulk@cs.rochester.edu (Mark Fulk) writes:\n>In article <C5Kv7p.JM3@unx.sas.com> sasghm@theseus.unx.sas.com (Gary Merrill) writes:\n>>\n>>In article <1993Apr15.200344.28013@cs.rochester.edu>, fulk@cs.rochester.edu (Mark Fulk) writes:\n>>What is wrong with the above observation is that it explicitly gives the\n>>impression (and you may not in fact hold this view) that the common (perhaps\n>>even the "correct") approach for a scientist to follow is to sit around\n>>having flights of fancy and scheming on the basis of his jealousies and\n>>petty hatreds.\n>\n>Flights of fancy, and other irrational approaches, are common. The crucial\n>thing is not to sit around just having fantasies; they aren\'t of any use\n>unless they make you do some experiments. I\'ve known a lot of scientists\n>whose fantasies lead them on to creative work; usually they won\'t admit\n>out loud what the fantasy was, prior to the consumption of a few beers.\n\nThe danger in philosophizing about science is that theory and generalization \ncan end up being far removed from the actual day-to-day of the grunt at the\nbench. Yes, its great to be involved in a process were I can walk into the\nlab after a heavy night of dreaming and just do something for the hell of it\n(as long as my advisor doesn\'t catch me - which is easy enough to do), but \nstamping out such behavior seems to be the purpose in life of grant review \ncommittees and the peer review process in general. In today\'s world that\'s \nwhat determines what science is: what gets funded. And a damn good thing to.\nFlights of fantasy just don\'t have much chance of producing anything, at \nleast not in biomedical research. The surest way for a graduate student to\nruin their life is to work in a lab where the boss is more concerned with \nfleshing out his/her fantasies than with having the student work on a project\nthat actually has a good chance of producing some results. MD\'s seem to \nbe particularly prone to this aberrant behavior. \n\n>(Simple example: Warren Jelinek noticed an extremely heavy band on a DNA\n>electrophoresis gel of human ALU fragments. He got very excited, hoping that\n>he\'d seen some essential part of the control mechanism for eukaryotic\n>genes. This fantasy led him to sequence samples of the band and carry out\n>binding assays. The result was a well-conserved, 400 or so bp, sequence\n>that occurs about 500,000 times in the human genome. Unfortunately for\n>Warren\'s fantasy, it turns out to be a transposon that is present in\n>so many copies because it replicates itself and copies itself back into\n>the genome. On the other hand, the characteristics of transposons were\n>much elucidated; the necessity of a cellular reverse transcriptase was\n>recognized; and the standard method of recognizing human DNA was created.\n>Other species have different sets of transposons. Fortunately for me,\n>Warren and I used to eat dinner at T.G.I. Fridays all the time.)\n\nI have to agree with Gary Merrill\'s response to this. I\'ve read alot of the\nAlu and middle repetitive sequence work and it\'s really very interesting, \ngood work with implications for many fields in molecular genetics. It\'s \nreally an example of how a well reasoned project turned up interesting \nresults that were unexpected.\n\nMike\n\n\n',
"From: will@futon.webo.dg.com (Will Taber)\nSubject: Re: Question about Virgin Mary\nLines: 31\n\nddavis@cass.ma02.bull.com (Dave Davis) writes:\n\n[ Much deletion. He is trying to explain the Immaculate Conception\nand the Assumption of Mary.]\n\n>\t'Original sin' is the only reason (fallen) humanity\n>\tdies. Adam and Eve would not have died had they\n>\tnot fallen.\n\nIf this is true than why in the Genesis story is God concerned that\nAdam and Eve might also eat from the Tree of Life and live forever and\nbe like gods? Eating of the tree of life would not take away the\neffects of eating of the Tree of Knowledge. Is there any reason to\nassume that they had already eaten of the Tree of Life and so had\nalready attained to eternal life? If so, what basis is there for\nsaying that this was taken away from them? To me the wages of sin are\na spiritual death, not necessarily a physical death. I\ncan attest to the truth of this interpretation from my own experience.\nI suspect that many others could attest to this as well. \n\nPeace\nWill\n\n---------------------------------------------------------------------------- \n| William Taber | Will_Taber@dg.com \t | Any opinions expressed |\n| Data General Corp. | will@futon.webo.dg.com | are mine alone and may |\n| Westboro, Mass. 01580 | | change without notice. |\n|---------------------------------------------------------------------------\n| When all your dreams are laid to rest, you can get what's second best, |\n|\tBut it's hard to get enough.\t\tDavid Wilcox |\n----------------------------------------------------------------------------\n",
'From: darice@yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au (Fred Rice)\nSubject: Re: islamic genocide\nOrganization: Monash University, Melb., Australia.\nLines: 49\n\nIn <2943927496.1.p00261@psilink.com> "Robert Knowles" <p00261@psilink.com> writes:\n\n>>DATE: 14 Apr 1993 23:52:11 GMT\n>>FROM: Frank O\'Dwyer <frank@D012S658.uucp>\n>>\n>>In article <1993Apr14.102810.6059@monu6.cc.monash.edu.au> darice@yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au (Fred Rice) writes:\n>>\n>>Just borrowing your post, Mr. Rice...\n>>\n>>#In <2943656910.0.p00261@psilink.com> "Robert Knowles" <p00261@psilink.com> writes:\n>>#>Are you sure that democracy is the driving force behind\n>>#>the massacres in East Timor? It is certainly odd that so many of the worlds\n>>#>massacres occur along religious lines, independently of any claims to a\n>>#>democratic form of government. Are Ireland and Northern Ireland considered\n>>#>democracies? Would you attribute their problems to democracy even though\n>>#>they are democracies? Which motivates them more, religion or democracy?\n>>\n>>Mr. Rice was pointing out a fallacy in the assertion that Islam is evil\n>>because some of those who claim to follow it are evil, not asserting that \n>>democracy causes massacres, as I read it. \n\n>That is right, he was. And I was pointing out that his use of Indonesians\n>killing the East Timorese as a result of _democracy_ was a bit weak because\n>democracy is not much of a motivation for doing much of anything in Indonesia\n>from what I remember. East Timor was a former Portguese territory which was\n>forcibly annexed by Indonesia. Last I heard over 10,000 Indonesians have\n>died trying to keep East Timor a part of Indonesia. Being a former \n>Portuguese colony, there is a strong Catholic influence in East Timor as I\n>recall. So it seems a bit odd that yet again we have another war being\n>fought between people who just "happen" to have different religions. Purely\n>coincidental, I guess. But then the real motivation is to get the vote out\n>and make democracy work in Indonesia.\n\nI pointed out the secession movement in Aceh which has also been\nbrutally dealt with in the past by the Indonesian government. The\nharshly with all secessionist movements.\nthe evidence, it appears to me that the Indonesian government has dealt\nvery harshly with all secession movements.\n\nI know that the head of the Indonesian armed forces for a very long time\nwas Benny Murdani -- a "Christian". Indonesia has been heavy handed in\nEast Timor for a long time , even when Murdani was head of the armed\nforces. The people who make up the\nIndonesian government are in general motivated by national interests,\nnot religious ones.\n\n Fred Rice\n darice@yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au \n\n',
'From: spl@ivem.ucsd.edu (Steve Lamont)\nSubject: Re: Point within a polygon\nOrganization: University of Calif., San Diego/Microscopy and Imaging Resource\nLines: 15\nNNTP-Posting-Host: ivem.ucsd.edu\nKeywords: point, polygon\n\nIn article <1993Apr14.102007.20664@uk03.bull.co.uk> scrowe@hemel.bull.co.uk (Simon Crowe) writes:\n>I am looking for an algorithm to determine if a given point is bound by a \n>polygon. Does anyone have any such code or a reference to book containing\n>information on the subject ?\n\nSee the article "An Efficient Ray-Polygon Intersection," p. 390 in\nGraphics Gems (ISBN 0-12-286165-5). The second step, intersecting the\npolygon, does what you want. There is sample code in the book.\n\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\tspl\n-- \nSteve Lamont, SciViGuy -- (619) 534-7968 -- spl@szechuan.ucsd.edu\nSan Diego Microscopy and Imaging Resource/UC San Diego/La Jolla, CA 92093-0608\n"They are not Bolsheviks,\n just bullshitviks." - Yevgeny Yevtechenko, "Again a meeting..."\n',
'From: cs89ssg@brunel.ac.uk (Sunil Gupta)\nSubject: Re: RTrace 8.2.0\nOrganization: Brunel University, Uxbridge, UK\nLines: 12\nX-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]\n\nComp. Graphics/CAD (cgcad@bart.inescn.pt) wrote:\n: There is a new version of the RTrace ray-tracing package (8.2.0) at\n: asterix.inescn.pt [192.35.246.17] in directory pub/RTrace.\n: Check the README file.\n\ncant seem to reach the site from over here:\n\n>#ping 192.35.246.17\n>ICMP Net Unreachable from gateway nsn-FIX-pe.sura.net (192.80.214.253)\n>for icmp from ccws-24.brunel.ac.uk (134.83.176.30) to 192.35.246.17\n\nIs it possible for you to upload to a more mainstream ftp place?\n',
'From: "Robert Knowles" <p00261@psilink.com>\nSubject: Re: An Anecdote about Islam\nIn-Reply-To: <1pqfic$9s2@fido.asd.sgi.com>\nNntp-Posting-Host: 127.0.0.1\nOrganization: Kupajava, East of Krakatoa\nX-Mailer: PSILink-DOS (3.3)\nLines: 32\n\n>DATE: 5 Apr 1993 23:32:28 GMT\n>FROM: Jon Livesey <livesey@solntze.wpd.sgi.com>\n>\n>In article <114127@bu.edu>, jaeger@buphy.bu.edu (Gregg Jaeger) writes:\n>|> \n>|> I don\'t understand the point of this petty sarcasm. It is a basic \n>|> principle of Islam that if one is born muslim or one says "I testify\n>|> that there is no god but God and Mohammad is a prophet of God" that,\n>|> so long as one does not explicitly reject Islam by word then one _must_\n>|> be considered muslim by all muslims. So the phenomenon you\'re attempting\n>|> to make into a general rule or psychology is a direct odds with basic\n>|> Islamic principles. If you want to attack Islam you could do better than\n>|> than to argue against something that Islam explicitly contradicts.\n>\n>Then Mr Mozumder is incorrect when he says that when committing\n>bad acts, people temporarily become atheists?\n>\n>jon.\n\nOf course B.M. is not incorrect. He is defending Islam. When defending\nIslam against infidels you can say anything and no one will dare criticize\nyou. But when an atheist uses the same argument he is using "petty sarcasm". So\nB.M. can have his "temporary atheists" whenever he needs them and all the\n"temporary atheists" can later say that they were always good Muslims because\nthey never explicitly rejected Islam. \n\nTemporary atheism, temporary Islam, temporary marriage. None of it sticks. \nA teflon religion. How convenient. And so easy to clean up after. But \nthen, what would you expect from a bunch of people who can\'t even agree on \nthe phases of the moon?\n\n\n',
"From: reedr@cgsvax.claremont.edu\nSubject: Re: DID HE REALLY RISE???\nOrganization: The Claremont Graduate School\nLines: 34\n\nIn article <Apr.19.05.11.36.1993.29109@athos.rutgers.edu>, ata@hfsi.hfsi.com ( John Ata) writes:\n\n> I think you are vastly oversimplifying things. We know that early Christians\n> suffered totures because of their witness to Christ. For example:\n\n[ ACT 5:40 - 41 ]\n\n> It appears that the Jewish rulers of that time had a particular aversion\n> to even hearing Jesus's name.\n...\n> Finally, the first apostle's death, James of Zebedee was certainly\n> not by Rome's hand any more than the first martyr Stephen. \n...\n> The problem was that if one believed in the Resurrection, then one\n> must believe in Jesus as truly being the Son of God and what He\n> stood for and preached during His ministry on Earth. That would\n> have been extremely difficult for some people, especially those\n> that had plotted to kill Him. \n\nThe basic problem with your argument is your total and complete reliance on\nthe biblical text. Luke's account is highly suspect (I would refer you to\nthe hermeneia commentary on Acts). Moreover Luke's account is written at\nleast 90 years after the fact. In the meantime everyone he mentions has died\nand attempts to find actual written sources behind the text have come up\nwith only the we section of the later portion of acts as firmly established.\nMoreover, Pauls account of some of the events in Acts (as recorded in \nGalatians) fail to establish the acts accounts. \n\nWhat we need, therefore, is a reliable text, critically appreciated, which\ndocuments the death of Christians for belief in the Resurrection. I would\nsuggest you look at some greek and roman historians. I think you will be\ndisapointed.\n\nrandy\n",
'From: zyeh@caspian.usc.edu (zhenghao yeh)\nSubject: Ellipse Again\nOrganization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA\nLines: 39\nDistribution: world\nNNTP-Posting-Host: caspian.usc.edu\nKeywords: ellipse\n\n\nHi! Everyone,\n\nBecause no one has touched the problem I posted last week, I guess\nmy question was not so clear. Now I\'d like to describe it in detail:\n\nThe offset of an ellipse is the locus of the center of a circle which\nrolls on the ellipse. In other words, the distance between the ellipse\nand its offset is same everywhere.\n\nThis problem comes from the geometric measurement when a probe is used.\nThe tip of the probe is a ball and the computer just outputs the\npositions of the ball\'s center. Is the offset of an ellipse still\nan ellipse? The answer is no! Ironically, DMIS - an American Indutrial\nStandard says it is ellipse. So almost all the software which was\nimplemented on the base of DMIS was wrong. The software was also sold\ninternationaly. Imagine, how many people have or will suffer from this bug!!!\nHow many qualified parts with ellipse were/will be discarded? And most\nimportantly, how many defective parts with ellipse are/will be used?\n\nI was employed as a consultant by a company in Los Angeles last year\nto specially solve this problem. I spent two months on analysis of this\nproblem and six months on programming. Now my solution (nonlinear)\nis not ideal because I can only reconstruct an ellipse from its entire\nor half offset. It is very difficult to find the original ellipse from\na quarter or a segment of its offset because the method I used is not\nanalytical. I am now wondering if I didn\'t touch the base and make things\ncomplicated. Please give me a hint.\n\nI know you may argue this is not a CG problem. You are right, it is not.\nHowever, so many people involved in the problem "sphere from 4 poits".\nWhy not an ellipse? And why not its offset?\n\nPlease post here and let the others share our interests \n(I got several emails from our netters, they said they need the\nsummary of the answers).\n\nYeh\nUSC\n',
'From: jaeger@buphy.bu.edu (Gregg Jaeger)\nSubject: Re: An Anecdote about Islam\nOrganization: Boston University Physics Department\nLines: 117\n\nIn article <16BB112949.I3150101@dbstu1.rz.tu-bs.de> I3150101@dbstu1.rz.tu-bs.de (Benedikt Rosenau) writes:\n>In article <115287@bu.edu> jaeger@buphy.bu.edu (Gregg Jaeger) writes:\n\n \n>>>>>A brutal system filtered through "leniency" is not lenient.\n\n\n>>>>Huh?\n\n\n>>>How do you rate public floggings or floggings at all? Chopping off the\n>>>hands, heads, or other body parts? What about stoning?\n\n\n>>I don\'t have a problem with floggings, particularly, when the offenders\n>>have been given a chance to change their behavior before floggings are\n>>given. I do have a problem with maiming in general, by whatever means.\n>>In my opinion no-one who has not maimed another should be maimed. In\n>>the case of rape the victim _is_ maimed, physically and emotionally,\n>>so I wouldn\'t have a problem with maiming rapists. Obviously I wouldn\'t\n>>have a problem with maiming murderers either.\n\n\n>May I ask if you had the same opinion before you became a Muslim?\n\n\n\nSure. Yes, I did. You see I don\'t think that rape and murder should\nbe dealt with lightly. You, being so interested in leniency for\nleniency\'s sake, apparently think that people should simply be\ntold the "did a _bad_ thing."\n\n\n>And what about the simple chance of misjudgements?\n\nMisjudgments should be avoided as much as possible.\nI suspect that it\'s pretty unlikely that, given my requirement\nof repeated offenses, that misjudgments are very likely.\n\n \n>>>>>>"Orient" is not a place having a single character. Your ignorance\n>>>>>>exposes itself nicely here.\n\n\n>>>>>Read carefully, I have not said all the Orient shows primitive machism.\n\n\n>>>>Well then, why not use more specific words than "Orient"? Probably\n>>>>because in your mind there is no need to (it\'s all the same).\n\n\n>>>Because it contains sufficient information. While more detail is possible,\n>>>it is not necessary.\n\n\n>>And Europe shows civilized bullshit. This is bullshit. Time to put out\n>>or shut up. You\'ve substantiated nothing and are blabbering on like\n>>"Islamists" who talk about the West as the "Great Satan." You\'re both\n>>guilty of stupidities.\n\n\n>I just love to compare such lines to the common plea of your fellow believers\n>not to call each others names. In this case, to substantiate it: The Quran\n>allows that one beATs one\'s wife into submission. \n\n\nReally? Care to give chapter and verse? We could discuss it.\n\n\n>Primitive Machism refers to\n>that. (I have misspelt that before, my fault).\n \n\nAgain, not all of the Orient follows the Qur\'an. So you\'ll have to do\nbetter than that.\n\n\nSorry, you haven\'t "put out" enough.\n\n \n>>>Islam expresses extramarital sex. Extramarital sex is a subset of sex. It is\n>>>suppressedin Islam. That marial sexis allowed or encouraged in Islam, as\n>>>it is in many branches of Christianity, too, misses the point.\n\n>>>Read the part about the urge for sex again. Religions that run around telling\n>>>people how to have sex are not my piece of cake for two reasons: Suppressing\n>>>a strong urge needs strong measures, and it is not their business anyway.\n\n>>Believe what you wish. I thought you were trying to make an argument.\n>>All I am reading are opinions.\n \n>It is an argument. That you doubt the validity of the premises does not change\n>it. If you want to criticize it, do so. Time for you to put up or shut up.\n\n\n\nThis is an argument for why _you_ don\'t like religions that suppress\nsex. A such it\'s an irrelevant argument.\n\nIf you\'d like to generalize it to an objective statement then \nfine. My response is then: you have given no reason for your statement\nthat sex is not the business of religion (one of your "arguments").\n\nThe urge for sex in adolescents is not so strong that any overly strong\nmeasures are required to suppress it. If the urge to have sex is so\nstrong in an adult then that adult can make a commensurate effort to\nfind a marriage partner.\n\n\n\nGregg\n\n\n\n\n\n\n',
'From: jamie@genesis.MCS.COM (James R Groves)\nSubject: FTP for Targa+\nOrganization: MCSNet Contributor, Chicago, IL\nLines: 5\nDistribution: world\nNNTP-Posting-Host: localhost.mcs.com\n\nI am looking for software to run on my brand new Targa+ 16/32. If anyone knows\nof any sites which have useful stuff, or if you have any yourself you want to\ngive, let me know via mail. Thanks a LOT! Yayayay!\n jamie@ddsw1.mcs.com\n\n',
'From: jcherney@envy.reed.edu (Joel Alexander Cherney)\nSubject: Epstein-Barr Syndrome questions\nArticle-I.D.: reed.1993Apr23.034226.2284\nReply-To: jcherney@reed.edu\nOrganization: Reed College, Portland, OR\nLines: 19\n\nOkay, this is a long shot.\n\nMy friend Robin has recurring bouts of mononucleosis-type symptoms, very \nregularly. This has been going on for a number of years. She\'s seen a \nnumber of doctors; six was the last count, I think. Most of them have \nsaid either "You have mono" or "You\'re full of it; there\'s nothing wrong \nwith you." One has admitted to having no idea what was wrong with her, \nand one has claimed that it is Epstein-Barr syndrome.\n\nNow, what she told me about EBS is that very few doctors even believe that \nit exists. (Obviously, this has been her experience.) So, what\'s the \nstory? Is it real? Does the medical profession believe it to be real?\n\nHas anyone had success is treating EBS? Or is it just something to live \nwith? Thanks for your assistance.\n\nJoel "The Ogre" Cherney\njcherney@reed.edu\nOf the Horde\n',
'From: jodfishe@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (joseph dale fisher)\nSubject: Re: So far so good\nOrganization: Indiana University\nLines: 58\n\nIn article <Apr.19.05.13.16.1993.29204@athos.rutgers.edu> armstrng@cs.dal.ca (Stan Armstrong) writes:\n>In article <C4z5u3.Jxo@spss.com> luomat@alleg.edu writes:\n>>\n>>This may be a really dumb one, but I\'ll ask it anyways:\n>>\tChristians know that they can never live up to the requirements of \n>>God, right? (I may be wrong, but that is my understanding) But they still \n>>try to do it. Doesn\'t it seem like we are spending all of our lives \n>>trying to reach a goal we can never achieve? I know that we are saved by \n>>faith and not by works, but does that mean that once we are saved we don\'t \n>>have to do anything? I think James tells us that Faith without works is \n>>dead (paraphrase). How does this work?\n>>\n>So long as we think that good things are what we *have* to do rather than\n>what we come to *want* to do, we miss the point. The more we love God; the\n>more we come to love what and whom He loves.\n>\n>When I find that what I am doing is not good, it is not a sign to try\n>even harder (Romans 7:14-8:2); it is a sign to seek God. When I am aware \n>of Jesus\' presence, I usually want what He wants. It is His strenth, His love \n>that empowers my weakness.\n>-- \n>Stan Armstrong. Religious Studies Dept, Saint Mary\'s University, Halifax, N.S.\n>Armstrong@husky1.stmarys.ca | att!clyde!watmath!water!dalcs!armstrng\n\nI apologize to the moderator, but the first quote was deleted and I\nwould like to respond to both.\n\nAs for the "goal we can never achieve", the reward comes from the\ntrying. Paul makes a clear claim that we are to continue straining for\nthe prize over in Philippians 3:10-16. Only by not living out the\ncommands do we stagnate and become lukewarm, to be spit out by Jesus.\nAs it says in 1 John 5:3: "This is love for God: to obey his comands."\nThat obedience is our straining to achieve for God. Of course, this\nrequires work on our part.\n\nAs for the quote in James, Satan doesn\'t care what we believe. What\nmatters is the results of our belief (works). If one truly has faith in\nwhat one believes, one will either act on that faith or be lying to\noneself about believing in the first place. \n\nStan, as for your first line, you have a very good point. Obedience by\nobligation (grudgery) is not what God desires. Instead, look at how\nmany times the Bible talks about being joyous in all situations and when\ndoing God\'s work. Being begrudged by the work has no value. Also, we\nshould do the work necessary whenever we can, not just when we feel\nJesus\' presence. Feelings can deceive us. However, as Paul states to\nTimothy in 2 Timothy 4:2: "Preach the Word; be prepared in season and\nout of season; correct, rebuke and encourage--with great patience and\ncareful instruction." Also, remember that Paul tells Timothy in 1\nTimothy 4:16: "Watch your life and doctrine closely. Persevere in\nthem, because if you do, you will save both yourself and your hearers."\nSo, in order to do the work necessary, we need to be sure that we are\ncorrect first. Remember Jesus\' warning in Matthew 7:3-5 not to be\nhypocritical about what we do. The best way to accomplish this is to be\na disciple completely in both thought and deed. \n\nJoe Fisher\n \n',
'From: healta@saturn.wwc.edu (Tammy R Healy)\nSubject: Re: ISLAM: a clearer view\nLines: 25\nOrganization: Walla Walla College\nLines: 25\n\nIn article <16BAFC876.I3150101@dbstu1.rz.tu-bs.de> I3150101@dbstu1.rz.tu-bs.de (Benedikt Rosenau) writes:\n>From: I3150101@dbstu1.rz.tu-bs.de (Benedikt Rosenau)\n>Subject: Re: ISLAM: a clearer view\n>Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1993 13:15:18 GMT\n>In article <healta.60.734567658@saturn.wwc.edu>\n>healta@saturn.wwc.edu (TAMMY R HEALY) writes:\n> \n>>>Sorry, it is generally accepted that the rise of the inquisition is\n>>>the reason why torture was introduced outside the Romanic countries\n>>>at the end of the Middle Ages. In other words, the Holy Mother Church\n>>>which is lead infallibly by the Holy Ghost has spread it.\n>>\n>>The Roman Catholic Church claims to be lead by the "infallable" pope.\n>>That\'s why she (the RC Church) has done so many wicked things to Xtians and\n>>non-believers alike.\n> \n> \n>The rationale that the pope speaking ex cathedra is infallible is based\n>on the claim above. The dogma about the pope is of Jesuitic origin and\n>has not been been accepted before the mid of the last century.\n> Benedikt\n\nYou\'re right. Thanks for enlightening me.\n\nTammy\n',
'From: hudson@athena.cs.uga.edu (Paul Hudson Jr)\nSubject: Re: Homosexuality issues in Christianity\nOrganization: University of Georgia, Athens\nLines: 35\n\nIn article <May.6.00.35.17.1993.15441@geneva.rutgers.edu> loisc@microsoft.com (Lois Christiansen) writes:\n>In article <Apr.30.03.11.27.1993.10101@geneva.rutgers.edu> FSSPR@acad3.alaska.edu wrote:\n\n>You might visit some congregations of Christians, who happen to be homosexuals,\n>that are spirit-filled believers, \n\nGifts of the Spirit should not be seen as an endorsement of ones behavior.\nA lot of people have suffered because of similar beliefs. Jesus said\nthat people would come to Him saying "Lord, Lord," and proclaiming\nthe miraculous works they had done in His name. Jesus would tell\nthem that they were workers of iniquity that do not know Him, and to\ndepart from Him. \n\nThat is not to say that this will happen to everyone who commits a homosexual\nsin. If the Holy Spirit were only given to the morally perfect, He would\nnot be given to me, or any of us. God can forgive any sin, if we repent.\nBut people should be careful not to think, "God has given me a gift of\nthe Spirit, it must be okay to be gay." That is dangerous (see also hebrews\n6 about those who have partaken of the Holy Spirit and of the powers of \nthe world to come.)\n\n>The Lord IS working in our community (the homosexual community, that is). He\'s\n>not asking us to change our sexual nature,\n\nJesus doesn\'t ask us to change our own nature. We cannot lift ourselves\nout of our own sin- but we must submit to His hand as He changes our\nnature. Practicing homosexual acts and homosexual lusts violates the\nmorality that God has set forth. \n\nIf you don\'t believe that, and think those of us who do are just ignorant,\nthen at least consider us weak in the faith and be celebate for our sake\'s.\nIs practicing homosexuality worth the cost of a soul, whether it be the\nhomosexual\'s or the one considered "ignorant?"\n\nLink Hudson.\n',
"From: Ivanov Sergey <serge@argus.msk.su>\nSubject: Re: Re: VGA 640x400 graphics mode\nDistribution: world\nOrganization: Commercial and Industrial Group ARGUS\nReply-To: serge@argus.msk.su\nLines: 7\n\n> My 8514/a VESA TSR supports this\n\n Can You report CRT and other register state in this mode ?\n Thank's.\n\n Serge Ivanov (serge@argus.msk.su)\n\n",
'From: sasghm@theseus.unx.sas.com (Gary Merrill)\nSubject: Re: Science and methodology (was: Homeopathy ... tradition?)\nOriginator: sasghm@theseus.unx.sas.com\nNntp-Posting-Host: theseus.unx.sas.com\nOrganization: SAS Institute Inc.\nLines: 16\n\n\nIn article <1993Apr15.161112.21772@cs.rochester.edu>, fulk@cs.rochester.edu (Mark Fulk) writes:\n\n|> I don\'t think "extra-scientific" is a very useful phrase in a discussion\n|> of the boundaries of science, except as a proposed definiens. Extra-rational\n|> is a better phrase. In fact, there are quite a number of well-known cases\n|> of extra-rational considerations driving science in a useful direction.\n\nYeah, but the problem with holding up the "extra-rational" examples as\nexemplars, or as refutations of well founded methodology, is that you\nrun smack up against such unuseful directions as Lysenko. Such "extra-\nrational" cases are curiosities -- not guides to methodology.\n-- \nGary H. Merrill [Principal Systems Developer, C Compiler Development]\nSAS Institute Inc. / SAS Campus Dr. / Cary, NC 27513 / (919) 677-8000\nsasghm@theseus.unx.sas.com ... !mcnc!sas!sasghm\n',
'From: kxgst1@pitt.edu (Kenneth Gilbert)\nSubject: Re: Can\'t Breathe\nArticle-I.D.: blue.7936\nLines: 23\nX-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]\n\nDavid Nye (nyeda@cnsvax.uwec.edu) wrote:\n: [reply to ron.roth@rose.com (ron roth)]\n: \n: >While you\'re right that the S vertebrae are attached to each other,\n: >the sacrum, to my knowledge, *can* be adjusted either directly, or\n: >by applying pressure on the pubic bone...\n: \n: Ron, you\'re an endless source of misinformation! There ARE no sacral\n: vertebrae. There is a bone called the sacrum at the end of the spine.\n: It is a single, solid bone except in a few patients who have a\n: lumbarized S1 as a normal variant. How do you adjust a solid bone,\n: break it? No, don\'t tell me, I don\'t want to know.\n: \nOh come now, surely you know he only meant to measure the flow of\nelectromagnetic energy about the sacrum and then adjust these flows\nwith a crystal of chromium applied to the right great toe. Don\'t\nyou know anything?\n\n--\n=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-|-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=\n= Kenneth Gilbert __|__ University of Pittsburgh =\n= General Internal Medicine | "...dammit, not a programmer! =\n=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-|-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=\n',
"From: hendrix@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Dane Hendrix)\nSubject: Processing of stereo images\nReply-To: hendrix@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Dane Hendrix)\nOrganization: Code 1542, DTMB, Bethesda, MD\nLines: 16\n\nI'm interested in find out what is involved in processing pairs of \nstereo photographs. I have black-and-white photos and would like \nto obtain surface contours.\n\nI'd prefer to do the processing on an SGI, but would be interested\nin hearing what software/hardware is used for this type of\nimage processing.\n\nPlease email and/or post to comp.sys.sgi.graphics your responses.\n\nThanks,\n\nDane Hendrix | email: dane@wizard.dt.navy.mil \nDTMB (a.k.a. Headquarters, Carderock Div.,| or hendrix@oasys.dt.navy.mil\nNaval Surface Warfare Center) | or hendrix@nas.nasa.gov \nCode 1542, Bethesda, MD 20084-5000 | phone: (301)227-1340\n",
'From: HOLFELTZ@LSTC2VM.stortek.com\nSubject: Re: Deification\nOrganization: StorageTek SW Engineering\nLines: 19\n\nAaron Bryce Cardenas writes:\n\n>Basically the prophet\'s writings make up the Old Testament, the apostles\' \n>writings make up the New Testament. These writings, recorded in the Bible, \n>are the foundation of the church.\n\nhayesstw@risc1.unisa.ac.za (Steve Hayes) writes:\n\n>That seems a most peculiar interpretation of the text. The "apostles and\n>prophets" were PEOPLE, rather than writings. And there were new testament\n>prophets as well, who built up the churches.\n\nRemember the OT doctrine of 2 witnesses? Perhaps the prophets\ntestified He is coming. The Apostles, testified He came.\n \nAfter all, what does prophesy mean? Secondly, what is an Apostle? Answer:\nan especial witness--one who is suppose to be a personal witness. That means\nto be a true apostle, one must have Christ appear to them. Now lets see\nwhen did the church quit claiming ......?\n',
'From: pharvey@quack.kfu.com (Paul Harvey)\nSubject: Re: Sabbath Admissions 5of5\nOrganization: The Duck Pond public unix: +1 408 249 9630, log in as \'guest\'.\nLines: 194\n\n\n\nIn article <Apr.19.05.12.10.1993.29131@athos.rutgers.edu> \npharvey@quack.kfu.com (Paul Harvey) writes:\n\n>priority than the direct word of Jesus in Matt5:14-19? Paul begins\n>Romans 14 with "If someone is weak in the faith ..." Do you count\n>yourself as one who is weak in the faith?\n\nDo you count yourself as one who is weak in the faith?\n\n>you read Jesus\' word in Matt5:14-19? Is there any doubt in your mind\n>about what is right and what is sin (Greek hamartia = missing the mark)?\n\nIs there any doubt in your mind about what is right and what is missing\nthe mark?\n\n>>However I\'d like to be clear that I do not think there\'s unambiguous\n>>proof that regular Christian worship was on the first day. As I\n>>indicated, there are responses on both of the passages cited.\n>Whereas, the Ten Commandments and Jesus\' words in Matt5:14-19 are fairly\n>clear, are they not?\n\nAre they clear or do you have doubts?\n\n>[No, I don\'t believe that Paul can overrule God.\n\nAn important first step; the realization that Paul was human.\n\n>However Paul was writing for a largely Gentile audience.\n\nYes, and he was writing and speaking for an audience that was at best,\nvery weak in the faith; most could not read, most were unfamiliar with\nthe Hebrew Scriptures in even the Septuagint form. Paul adapted the\nmessage of the Bible to a largely uneducated market. Granted, this\nmarket still exists today, but do you count yourself as part of it? To\nbe "weak in the faith" is not missing the mark (hamartia) if you do the\nbest that your education allows. Are you doing the best?\n\n>The Law was regarded by Jews\n>at the time (and now) as binding on Jews, but not on Gentiles. There\n>are rules that were binding on all human beings (the so-called Noachic\n>laws), but they are quite minimal.\n\nLet me make clear that the "Law" is none other than the Pentateuch of\nGenesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, Deuteronomy. What did Jesus say\nabout the "Law" in Matt5:14-19? Where did Jesus say that the "Law" only\napplies to Jews and that Gentiles are above the "Law"?\n\n>The issue that the Church had to\n>face after Jesus\' death was what to do about Gentiles who wanted to\n>follow Christ. The decision not to impose the Law on them didn\'t say\n>that the Law was abolished. It simply acknowledged that fact that it\n>didn\'t apply to Gentiles.\n\nWho acknowledged this fact? On what basis? Are we extra-biblical at this\npoint? Why not also acknowledge that the Bhagavad-Gita is the only\nrelevant text for Gentiles, after all we see in the Bible that it was\nMagus from the east who observed the star-signs of Jesus? Why bother\nwith any texts at all? Why not just follow whatever the Church has to\nsay?\n\n>Thus there is no contradiction with Mat 5.\n\nI don\'t see how you can say this with a straight face. Are you a\nfollower of Christ, or do you follow someone else? Are you saying that\nthe words of Jesus only apply to Jews?\n\n>As far as I can tell, both Paul and other Jewish Christians did\n>continue to participate in Jewish worship on the Sabbath. Thus they\n>continued to obey the Law.\n\nHow Jewish was Paul after he changed his name from Saul?\n\n>The issue was (and is) with Gentile\n>Christians, who are not covered by the Law (or at least not by the\n>ceremonial aspects of it).\n\nWho says Gentile Christians are not covered by the first five books? Who\nsays that Gentile Christians are above the Ten Commandments?\n\n>Jesus dealt mostly with Jews. I think we can reasonably assume that\n>Mat 5 was directed to a Jewish audience.\n\nYou\'re implying that Jesus\' words are valid only for Jews. Is this\nreally what you mean to say? You do realize that you are gutting rather\nlarge portions of the Bible? When you read Jesus\' words, did you ever\nconsider that maybe, just maybe Jesus is talking to you, no matter what\nyour race or sex? If the Hebrew Scriptures and the Gospel accounts of\nJesus are only directed to Jews, why were they translated into English?\n\n>He did interact with\n>Gentiles a few times (e.g. the centurion whose slave was healed and a\n>couple of others). The terms used to describe the centurion (see Luke\n>7) suggest that he was a "God-fearer", i.e. a Gentile who followed\n>God, but had not adopted the whole Jewish Law.\n\nAs Paul would call him, one who was weak in the faith.\n\n>He was commended by\n>Jewish elders as a worthy person, and Jesus accepted him as such.\n>This seems to me to indicate that Jesus accepted the prevailing view\n>that Gentiles need not accept the Law.\n\nWhich is more important: 1) The recorded word of Jesus or 2) Indications\nthat you can deduce from the Bible? Was Jesus God only of the Jews, or\nGod of all humankind of all race and sex?\n\n>However there\'s more involved if you want to compare Jesus and Paul on\n>the Law. In order to get a full picture of the role of the Law, we\n>have to come to grips with Paul\'s apparent rejection of the Law, and\n>how that relates to Jesus\' commendation of the Law. At least as I\n>read Paul, he says that the Law serves a purpose that has been in a\n>certain sense superceded.\n\nThis is your understanding of Paul. Compare this to the word of Jesus.\nAre you Christian or Pauline?\n\n>Again, this issue isn\'t one of the\n>abolition of the Law. In the middle of his discussion, Paul notes\n>that he might be understood this way, and assures us that that\'s not\n>what he intends to say. Rather, he sees the Law as primarily being\n>present to convict people of their sinfulness. But ultimately it\'s an\n>impossible standard, and one that has been superceded by Christ.\n\nAgain, this is your understanding of Paul. Did Jesus say that the Law\nwas an "impossible standard?" Did Jesus say that He superceded the Law?\nAre you Christian or Pauline?\n\n>Paul\'s comments are not the world\'s clearest here, and not everyone\n>agrees with my reading.\n\nYou acknowledge that it is *your* reading of Paul. What did Jesus say?\nCan you deny that Matt5:14-19 is quite clear in its meaning? Are you \nChristian or Pauline?\n\n>But the interesting thing to notice is that\n>even this radical position does not entail an abolition of the Law.\n>It still remains as an uncompromising standard, from which not an iota\n>or dot may be removed. For its purpose of convicting of sin, it\'s\n>important that it not be relaxed.\n\nWhen did Jesus say that the purpose of the Law was conviction of sin?\n\n>However for Christians, it\'s not\n>the end -- ultimately we live in faith, not Law.\n\nPlease reread Matt5:14-19. Are you Christian or Pauline?\n\n>Jesus\' interpretations\n>emphasize the intent of the Law, and stay away from the ceremonial\n>details.\n\nAre you saying that the Ten Commandments are ceremonial details?\n\n>Paul\'s conclusion is similar. While he talks about the Law being\n>superceded, all of the specific examples he gives involve the\n>"ceremonial law", such as circumcision and the Sabbath. He is quite\n>concerned about maintaining moral standards.\n\nYou call observance of the Sabbath, the day on which the Lord rested,\nceremonial? Has circumcision been superceded for Christians?\n\n....\n\nAre you Christian or Pauline?\n\n[Both. There is no doubt in my mind about what is sin and what is\nnot, at least not in this case. Jesus did not deal explicitly with\nthe question of whether the Law was binding on Gentiles. That\'s why I\nhave to cite evidence such as the way Jesus dealt with the Centurion.\n\nAs to general Jewish views on this, I am dependent largely on studies\nof Pauline theology, one by H.J. Schoeps, and one whose author I can\'t\ncome up with at the moment. Both authors are Jews. Also, various\nChristian and non-Christian Jews have discussed the issue here and in\nother newsgroups.\n\nMat 5:19 is clear that the Law is still valid. It does not say that\nit applies to Gentiles.\n\nAnd yes, I say that the specific requirement for worship on the\nSabbath in the Ten Commandments is a ceremonial detail, when you\'re\nlooking at the obligations of Gentiles. Similarly circumcision.\n\nI\'m not sure quite what else I can say on this subject. Again, it\'s\nunfortunate the Jesus didn\'t answer the question directly. However we\ndo know (1) what the 1st Cent. Jewish approach was, (2) how Jesus\ndealt with at least one Gentile, and (3) how Jesus\' disciples dealt\nwith the issue when it became more acute (I\'m referring to Acts 15\nmore than Paul). Given that these are all in agreement, I don\'t see\nthat there\'s a big problem.\n\n--clh]\n',
'From: livesey@solntze.wpd.sgi.com (Jon Livesey)\nSubject: Re: <<Pompous ass\nOrganization: sgi\nLines: 28\nDistribution: world\nNNTP-Posting-Host: solntze.wpd.sgi.com\n\nIn article <1ql6jiINN5df@gap.caltech.edu>, keith@cco.caltech.edu (Keith Allan Schneider) writes:\n|> arromdee@jyusenkyou.cs.jhu.edu (Ken Arromdee) writes:\n|> \n|> >>Look, I\'m not the one that made those Nazi comparisons. Other people\n|> >>compared what the religious people are doing now to Nazi Germany. They\n|> >>have said that it started out with little things (but no one really knew\n|> >>about any of these "little" things, strangely enough) and grew to bigger\n|> >>things. They said that the motto is but one of the little things \n|> >You just contradicted yourself. The motto is one of those little things that\n|> >nobody has bothered mentiopning to you, huh?\n|> \n|> The "`little\' things" above were in reference to Germany, clearly. People\n|> said that there were similar things in Germany, but no one could name any.\n|> They said that these were things that everyone should know, and that they\n|> weren\'t going to waste their time repeating them. Sounds to me like no one\n|> knew, either. I looked in some books, but to no avail.\n\nThat\'s not true. I gave you two examples. One was the rather\npevasive anti-semitism in German Christianity well before Hitler\narrived. The other was the system of social ranks that were used\nin Imperail Germany and Austria to distinguish Jews from the rest \nof the population.\n\nNeither of these were very terrible in themselves, but both helped\nto set a psychology in which the gradual disenfranchisement of Jews\nwas made easier.\n\njon.\n',
'From: spl@dim.ucsd.edu (Steve Lamont)\nSubject: Re: Finding equally spaced points on a sphere.\nOrganization: University of Calif., San Diego/Microscopy and Imaging Resource\nLines: 326\nNNTP-Posting-Host: dim.ucsd.edu\n\nIn article <4615trd@rpi.edu> deweeset@ptolemy2.rdrc.rpi.edu (Thomas E. DeWeese) writes:\n> Hello, I know that this has been discussed before. But at the time\n>I didn\'t need to teselate a sphere. So if any kind soul has the code\n>or the alg, that was finally decided upon as the best (as I recall it\n>was a nice, iterative subdivision meathod), I would be very \n>appreciative.\n\nHere is one by Andrew "Graphics Gems" Glassner that I got from a\ncollegue of mine. I think I fiddled with it a little bit to make it\ndeal with whatever bizarre problem I was working on at the time but it\nis known to work.\n\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\tspl\n\t\t\t - - - -\n/* spheres\n ASG 9 Feb 85\n spl Thu Mar 8 17:17:40 EST 1990\n*/\n#include <stdio.h>\n#include <math.h>\n\n#define PI 3.141592654\n\nstruct Point_struct {\n double x, y, z;\n};\n\nstatic double radius;\nstatic double xorg;\nstatic double yorg;\nstatic double zorg;\n\ndo_sphere( r, freq, x, y, z )\n\n double r;\n int freq;\n double x;\n double y;\n double z;\n\n {\n\n int pole;\n double northy, southy, poley;\n double rtheta, rtheta2, ntheta, ntheta2, magicangle;\n double theta, thetastart, thisy, den, t;\n struct Point_node *pnp;\n struct Point_struct p1, p2, p3, p4, n1, n2, n3, n4, pt;\n\n radius = r;\n xorg = x;\n yorg = y;\n zorg = z;\n\n/* north pole */\n\n magicangle = 30.0*PI/180.0;\n northy = radius*sin(magicangle);\n southy = -radius*sin(magicangle);\n for (pole=0; pole<2; pole++) {\n\n if (pole==0) {\n\n poley=radius; \n thisy=northy; \n thetastart=0.0; \n\n }\n else { \n\n poley= -radius; \n thisy=southy; \n thetastart=36.0; \n\n }\n for ( theta = thetastart; theta < 360.0; theta += 60.0 ) {\n\n rtheta = theta*PI/180.0;\n rtheta2 = (theta+60.0)*PI/180.0;\n p1.x = 0.0; \n p1.y = poley; \n p1.z = 0.0; \n p2.x = radius*cos(rtheta);\n p2.y = thisy;\n p2.z = radius*sin(rtheta);\n p3.x = radius*cos(rtheta2);\n p3.y = thisy;\n p3.z = radius*sin(rtheta2);\n\n if (pole==0) {\n\n/* make ring go the other way so normals are right */\n\n pt.x = p3.x; \n pt.y = p3.y; \n pt.z = p3.z; \n p3.x = p2.x; \n p3.y = p2.y; \n p3.z = p2.z; \n p2.x = pt.x; \n p2.y = pt.y; \n p2.z = pt.z; \n\n }\n\n den = (p1.x*p1.x)+(p1.y*p1.y)+(p1.z*p1.z); \n den = sqrt(den);\n\n if (den != 0.0) {\n\n t = radius / den; \n p1.x *= t; \n p1.y *= t; \n p1.z *= t;\n\n }\n\n den = (p2.x*p2.x)+(p2.y*p2.y)+(p2.z*p2.z); \n den = sqrt(den);\n\n if (den != 0.0) {\n\n t = radius / den; \n p2.x *= t; \n p2.y *= t; \n p2.z *= t;\n\n }\n\n den = (p3.x*p3.x)+(p3.y*p3.y)+(p3.z*p3.z); \n den = sqrt(den);\n\n if (den != 0.0) {\n\n t = radius / den; \n p3.x *= t; \n p3.y *= t; \n p3.z *= t;\n\n }\n\n subdivide_tri(&p1,&p2,&p3,freq);\n\n }\n\n }\n\n/* now the body */\n\n for (theta=0.0; theta<360.0; theta += 60.0) {\n\n rtheta = theta*PI/180.0; \n rtheta2 = (theta+60.0)*PI/180.0;\n ntheta = (theta+36.0)*PI/180.0; \n ntheta2 = (theta+96.0)*PI/180.0;\n p1.x = radius*cos(rtheta); \n p1.y = northy; \n p1.z = radius*sin(rtheta);\n p2.x = radius*cos(rtheta2); \n p2.y = northy; \n p2.z = radius*sin(rtheta2);\n p3.x = radius*cos(ntheta); \n p3.y = southy; \n p3.z = radius*sin(ntheta);\n p4.x = radius*cos(ntheta2); \n p4.y = southy; \n p4.z = radius*sin(ntheta2);\n\n den = (p1.x*p1.x)+(p1.y*p1.y)+(p1.z*p1.z); \n den = sqrt(den);\n\n if (den != 0.0) {\n\n t = radius / den; \n p1.x *= t; \n p1.y *= t; \n p1.z *= t;\n\n }\n\n den = (p2.x*p2.x)+(p2.y*p2.y)+(p2.z*p2.z); \n den = sqrt(den);\n\n if (den != 0.0) {\n\n t = radius / den; \n p2.x *= t; \n p2.y *= t; \n p2.z *= t;\n\n }\n den = (p3.x*p3.x)+(p3.y*p3.y)+(p3.z*p3.z); \n den = sqrt(den);\n if (den != 0.0) {\n\n t = radius / den; \n p3.x *= t; \n p3.y *= t; \n p3.z *= t;\n\n }\n den = (p4.x*p4.x)+(p4.y*p4.y)+(p4.z*p4.z); \n den = sqrt(den);\n if (den != 0.0) {\n\n t = radius / den; \n p4.x *= t; \n p4.y *= t; \n p4.z *= t;\n\n }\n\n subdivide_tri(&p1,&p2,&p3,freq);\n subdivide_tri(&p3,&p2,&p4,freq);\n\n }\n\n return;\n\n }\n\n#define norm_pt(v) { register double r = sqrt( ( ( v )->x * ( v )->x ) + \\\n ( ( v )->y * ( v )->y ) + \\\n ( ( v )->z * ( v )->z ) ); \\\n ( v )->x /= r; \\\n ( v )->y /= r; \\\n ( v )->z /= r; \\\n }\n\nsubdivide_tri(p1,p2,p3,a)\n\n struct Point_struct *p1, *p2, *p3;\n int a;\n\n {\n\n struct Point_struct n1, n2, n3;\n struct Point_struct p12, p13, p23;\n double den, t;\n\n if (a>0) {\n\n p12.x = (p1->x+p2->x)/2.0;\n p12.y = (p1->y+p2->y)/2.0;\n p12.z = (p1->z+p2->z)/2.0;\n den = (p12.x*p12.x)+(p12.y*p12.y)+(p12.z*p12.z); \n den = sqrt(den);\n if (den != 0.0) {\n\n t = radius / den;\n p12.x *= t; \n p12.y *= t; \n p12.z *= t;\n\n }\n p13.x = (p1->x+p3->x)/2.0;\n p13.y = (p1->y+p3->y)/2.0;\n p13.z = (p1->z+p3->z)/2.0;\n den = (p13.x*p13.x)+(p13.y*p13.y)+(p13.z*p13.z); \n den = sqrt(den);\n if (den != 0.0) {\n\n t = radius / den;\n p13.x *= t; \n p13.y *= t; \n p13.z *= t;\n\n }\n p23.x = (p2->x+p3->x)/2.0;\n p23.y = (p2->y+p3->y)/2.0;\n p23.z = (p2->z+p3->z)/2.0;\n den = (p23.x*p23.x)+(p23.y*p23.y)+(p23.z*p23.z); \n den = sqrt(den);\n if (den != 0.0) {\n\n t = radius / den;\n p23.x *= t; \n p23.y *= t; \n p23.z *= t;\n\n }\n subdivide_tri(p1, &p12,&p13,a-1);\n subdivide_tri(&p12, p2, &p23,a-1);\n subdivide_tri(&p13,&p23, p3, a-1);\n subdivide_tri(&p12,&p23,&p13,a-1);\n\n } else {\n\n n1.x = p1->x; \n n1.y = p1->y; \n n1.z = p1->z; \n norm_pt(&n1);\n n2.x = p2->x; \n n2.y = p2->y; \n n2.z = p2->z; \n norm_pt(&n2);\n n3.x = p3->x; \n n3.y = p3->y; \n n3.z = p3->z; \n norm_pt(&n3);\n\n/* nothing special about this poly */\n\n printf( "%f %f %f %f %f %f\\n", p1->x + xorg,\n p1->y + yorg,\n p1->z + zorg,\n n1.x, n1.y, n1.z );\n printf( "%f %f %f %f %f %f\\n", p2->x + xorg,\n p2->y + yorg,\n p2->z + zorg,\n n2.x, n2.y, n2.z );\n printf( "%f %f %f %f %f %f\\n", p3->x + xorg,\n p3->y + yorg,\n p3->z + zorg,\n n3.x, n3.y, n3.z );\n\n }\n\n return;\n\n }\n-- \nSteve Lamont, SciViGuy -- (619) 534-7968 -- spl@szechuan.ucsd.edu\nSan Diego Microscopy and Imaging Resource/UC San Diego/La Jolla, CA 92093-0608\n"My other car is a car, too."\n - Bumper strip seen on I-805\n',
'From: 9051467f@levels.unisa.edu.au (The Desert Brat)\nSubject: Re: Keith Schneider - Stealth Poster?\nOrganization: Cured, discharged\nLines: 24\n\nIn article <1pa0f4INNpit@gap.caltech.edu>, keith@cco.caltech.edu (Keith Allan Schneider) writes:\n\n> But really, are you threatened by the motto, or by the people that use it?\n\nEvery time somone writes something and says it is merely describing the norm,\nit is infact re-inforcing that norm upon those programmed not to think for\nthemselves. The motto is dangerous in itself, it tells the world that every\n*true* American is god-fearing, and puts down those who do not fear gods. It\ndoesn\'t need anyone to make it dangerous, it does a good job itself by just\nexisting on your currency.\n\n> keith\n\nThe Desert Brat\n-- \nJohn J McVey, Elc&Eltnc Eng, Whyalla, Uni S Australia, ________\n9051467f@levels.unisa.edu.au T.S.A.K.C. \\/Darwin o\\\nFor replies, mail to whjjm@wh.whyalla.unisa.edu.au /\\________/\nDisclaimer: Unisa hates my opinions. bb bb\n+------------------------------------------------------+-----------------------+\n|"It doesn\'t make a rainbow any less beautiful that we | "God\'s name is smack |\n|understand the refractive mechanisms that chance to | for some." |\n|produce it." - Jim Perry, perry@dsinc.com | - Alice In Chains |\n+------------------------------------------------------+-----------------------+\n',
'From: hahm@fossi.hab-weimar.de (peter hahm)\nSubject: Radiosity\nKeywords: radiosity, raytracing, rendering\nNntp-Posting-Host: fossi.hab-weimar.de\nOrganization: Hochschule fuer Architektur und Bauwesen Weimar, Germany\nLines: 17\n\n\n\nRADIOSITY SOURCES WANTED !!!\n============================\n\nWhen I read the comp.graphics group, I never found something about \nradiosity. Is there anybody interested in out there? I would be glad \nto hear from somebody.\nI am looking for source-code for the radiosity-method. I have already\nread common literature, e. g.Foley ... . I think little examples could \nhelp me to understand how radiosity works. Common languages ( C, C++, \nPascal) prefered.\nI hope you will help me!\n\nYours\nPeter \n\n',
"From: S_BRAUN@IRAV19.ira.uka.de (Thomas Braun)\nSubject: sources for shading wanted\nOrganization: University of Karlsruhe, FRG\nLines: 22\nDistribution: world\nNNTP-Posting-Host: irav19.ira.uka.de\nX-News-Reader: VMS NEWS 1.25\n\nI'm looking for shading methods and algorithms.\nPlease let me know if you know where to get source codes for that.\n\nThanks a lot!\n\nThomas\n\n\n+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+\n| Thomas Braun, Universitaet Karlsruhe |\n| E-Mail : S_BRAUN@iravcl.ira.uka.de |\n+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+\n \n\n+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+\n| \\_\\_\\_\\_\\_ \\_\\_\\_ Thomas Braun |\n| \\_ \\_ \\_ University Karlsruhe, Germany |\n| \\_ \\_\\_\\_ email: |\n| \\_ \\_ \\_ - S_Braun@iravcl.ira.uka.de |\n| \\_ \\_\\_\\_ - UKAY@dkauni2.bitnet |\n+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+\n \n",
'From: mbc@po.CWRU.Edu (Michael B. Comet)\nSubject: Re: HOT NEW 3D Software\nOrganization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)\nLines: 34\nReply-To: mbc@po.CWRU.Edu (Michael B. Comet)\nNNTP-Posting-Host: thor.ins.cwru.edu\n\n\nIn a previous article, trb3@Ra.MsState.Edu (Tony R. Boutwell) says:\n\n>There is a new product for the (IBM\'ers) out there... it is called\n>IMAGINE and it just started shipping yesterday... I can personally attest that it will blow the doors off of 3D-Studio. It is made by IMPUlSE, and is in its\n>\n\tWell....I don\'t know about its competing with 3D studio, but\nit\'s pretty powerful allright.\n\n>\n>also....does anyone here know how to get in the Imagine mailing list??\n>please e-mail me if you do or post up here....\n>\n\n\tYes, send e-mail to:\n\n\timagine-request@email.sp.paramax.com\n\n\tWith a header of something like subscribe.\n\n\n\tI actually work on the FAQ (frequently asked questions). We\nshould have the new version out of it by next week, but if you want, I\ncould e-mail you the previous one. It details what the list is etc...\nas well as answering basic questions about Imagine.\n\n\tHope this helps!\n\n\n-- \n+======================================================================+\n| Michael B. Comet - Software Engineer / Graphics Artist - CWRU |\n| mbc@po.CWRU.Edu - "Silence those who oppose the freedom of speech" |\n+======================================================================+\n',
"From: schaefer@imag.imag.fr (Arno Schaefer)\nSubject: Re: CView answers\nNntp-Posting-Host: silene\nOrganization: Institut Imag, Grenoble, France\nLines: 32\n\nIn article <C5LErr.1J3@rahul.net>, bryanw@rahul.net (Bryan Woodworth) writes:\n|> In <1993Apr16.114158.2246@whiting.mcs.com> sean@whiting.mcs.com (Sean Gum) writes:\n|> \n|> >A stupid question, but what will CView run on and where can I get it? I\n|> >am still in need of a GIF viewer for Linux. (Without X-Windows.)\n|> >Thanks!\n|> > \n|> \n|> Ho boy. There is no way in HELL you are going to be able to view GIFs or do\n|> any other graphics in Linux without X windows! I love Linux because it is\n|> so easy to learn.. You want text? Okay. Use Linux. You want text AND\n|> graphics? Use Linux with X windows. Simple. Painless. REQUIRED to have\n|> X Windows if you want graphics! This includes fancy word processors like\n|> doc, image viewers like xv, etc.\n|> \n\nSorry, Bryan, this is not quite correct. Remember the VGALIB package that comes\nwith Linux/SLS? It will switch to VGA 320x200x256 mode *without* Xwindows.\nSo at least it is *possible* to write a GIF viewer under Linux. However I don't\nthink that there exists a similar SVGA package, and viewing GIFs in 320x200 is\nnot very nice.\n\nBest Regards,\n\nArno\n\n-- \n--------------------------------------------------------------------------------\nArno Schaefer\t\t\t\tENSIMAG, 2e Annee\nEmail: schaefer@silene.imag.fr\nTel.: (33) 76 51 79 95\t\t\t:-)\n--------------------------------------------------------------------------------\n",
"From: ed@cwis.unomaha.edu (Ed Stastny)\nSubject: Chaos Editions: IDEA (Internation Directory of Electronic Arts)\nKeywords: electronic art\nOrganization: University of Nebraska at Omaha\nLines: 30\n\nI've borrowed the 1992-93 version of this book from a friend...holy\nmoley! What a wealth of contacts. Five-hundred pages of information\nabout electronic artists and organizations around the globe (many have\nemail addresses). An up to the minute database of this information is\nalso available on Minitel (the book's based in France...are there any\nInternet=>Minitel gates?). The book is printed in French and English.\n \nTo have you or your organization listed in IDEA, just send your\ninformation to:\n \nAnnick Bureaud\nIDEA\n57, rue Falguiere\n75015 Paris\nFrance\n \nIt's free to be listed in it, I'm not sure how widely distributed the\nbook is or how much it costs. I'm not affiliated with them in any way,\nI was just impressed by their collection of organizations and artists.\nI highly encourage all involved in electronic media (video, music,\ngraphics, animation, etc.) to send in your entry and encourage them to\nmake their database available on Internet.\n \n...e\n\n--\nEd Stastny | OTIS Project, END PROCESS, SOUND News and Arts \nPO BX 241113\t | FTP: sunsite.unc.edu (/pub/multimedia/pictures/OTIS)\nOmaha, NE 68124-1113 | 141.214.4.135 (projects/otis)\n---------------------- EMail: ed@cwis.unomaha.edu, ed@sunsite.unc.edu\n",
'From: etxmow@garbo.ericsson.se (Mats Winberg)\nSubject: Re: HELP for Kidney Stones ..............\nNntp-Posting-Host: garboc29.ericsson.se\nOrganization: Ericsson\nLines: 15\n\n\n Isn\'t there a relatively new treatment for kidney stones involving\n a non-invasive use of ultra-sound where the patient is lowered\n into some sort of liquid when he/she undergoes treatment? I\'m sure\n I\'ve read about it somewhere. If I remember it correctly it is a\n painless and effective treatment.\n A couple of weeks ago I visited a hospital here in Stockholm and\n saw big signs showing the way to the "Kidney stone chrusher" ...\n\n\n\n Mats Winberg\n Stockholm, Sweden\n\n\t \n',
'From: mac@utkvx.bitnet (Richard J. McDougald)\nSubject: Re: Why does Illustrator AutoTrace so poorly?\nOrganization: University of Tennessee \nLines: 22\n\nIn article <0010580B.vmcbrt@diablo.UUCP> diablo.UUCP!cboesel (Charles Boesel) writes:\n\nYeah, Corel Draw and WordPerfect Presentations pretty limited here, too.\n\tSince there\'s no (not really) such thing as a decent raster to\nvector conversion program, this "tracing" technique is about it. Simple\nstuff, like b&w logos, etc. do pretty well, while more complicated stuff\ngoes haywire. I suspect (even though I don\'t write code) that a good\nbitmapped to vector conversion program would probably be as big as most\nof these application softwares we\'re using -- but even so, how come one\nhasn\'t been written? (to my knowledge). I mean, even Hijaak, one of the\ncommercial industry standards of file conversion, hasn\'t attempted it yet.\n\n+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++\n Mac McDougald * Any opinions expressed herein \n The Photography Center * are not necessarily (actually,\n Univ. of Tenn. Knoxville 37996 * are almost CERTAINLY NOT) those\n mac@utkvx.utk.edu * of The University of Tennessee. \n mac@utkvx.bitnet * \n (615-974-3449) * "Things are more like they are now \n (615-974-6435) FAX * than they\'ve ever been before."\n++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++\n \n',
'From: weaver@chdasic.sps.mot.com (Dave Weaver)\nSubject: Re: Assurance of Hell\nLines: 29\n\nIn a previous article, lfoard@hopper.virginia.edu (Lawrence C. Foard) writes:\n>>\n>> did you know that Jesus talked more\n>> about hell than He did about heaven! \n> \n> Thank you for this info. What respect I had for the man now\n> has been diminished tenfold. I promise never again to\n> say how wise or loving this man was...\n\nI have a hard time understanding this attitude.\n\nIf the gospels are the least bit accurate, then there can be little\ndoubt that Jesus belived hell was a reality.\n\nAs a teacher, what would be the wise and loving thing to do if people\nin your audience were headed there? To warn them! It would, however, \nbe rather cruel and/or sadistic to believe that such a place exists \nand then remain quiet about it. \n\nThe only scenario I can envision in which dimished respect would be\njustified is if Jesus knew there was no such place as hell, and spoke\nabout it anyway, just to scare people. Unless you would accuse Jesus\nof this, I would encourage you to reconsider what a loving response \nis when you perceive someone to be in danger. \n\n---\nDave Weaver | "He is no fool who gives what\nweaver@chdasic.sps.mot.com | he cannot keep to gain what he\n | cannot lose." - Jim Elliot (1949)\n',
'From: bryanw@rahul.net (Bryan Woodworth)\nSubject: Re: CView answers\nNntp-Posting-Host: bolero\nOrganization: a2i network\nLines: 14\n\nIn <1993Apr16.114158.2246@whiting.mcs.com> sean@whiting.mcs.com (Sean Gum) writes:\n\n>A stupid question, but what will CView run on and where can I get it? I\n>am still in need of a GIF viewer for Linux. (Without X-Windows.)\n>Thanks!\n> \n\nHo boy. There is no way in HELL you are going to be able to view GIFs or do\nany other graphics in Linux without X windows! I love Linux because it is\nso easy to learn.. You want text? Okay. Use Linux. You want text AND\ngraphics? Use Linux with X windows. Simple. Painless. REQUIRED to have\nX Windows if you want graphics! This includes fancy word processors like\ndoc, image viewers like xv, etc.\n\n',
'From: geb@cs.pitt.edu (Gordon Banks)\nSubject: Re: My New Diet --> IT WORKS GREAT !!!!\nReply-To: geb@cs.pitt.edu (Gordon Banks)\nOrganization: Univ. of Pittsburgh Computer Science\nLines: 35\n\nIn article <1993Apr22.001642.9186@omen.UUCP> caf@omen.UUCP (Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX) writes:\n\n>>>>Can you provide a reference to substantiate that gaining back\n>>>>the lost weight does not constitute "weight rebound" until it\n>>>>exceeds the starting weight? Or is this oral tradition that\n>>>>is shared only among you obesity researchers?\n>>>\n>>>Annals of NY Acad. Sci. 1987\n>>>\n>>Hmmm. These don\'t look like references to me. Is passive-aggressive\n>>behavior associated with weight rebound? :-)\n>\n>I purposefully left off the page numbers to encourage the reader to\n>study the volumes mentioned, and benefit therefrom.\n>\n\nGood story, Chuck, but it won\'t wash. I have read the NY Acad Sci\none (and have it). This AM I couldn\'t find any reference to\n"weight rebound". I\'m not saying it isn\'t there, but since you\ncited it, it is your responsibility to show me where it is in there.\nThere is no index. I suspect you overstepped your knowledge base,\nas usual.\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n-- \n----------------------------------------------------------------------------\nGordon Banks N3JXP | "Skepticism is the chastity of the intellect, and\ngeb@cadre.dsl.pitt.edu | it is shameful to surrender it too soon." \n----------------------------------------------------------------------------\n',
'From: lady@uhunix.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu (Lee Lady)\nSubject: Re: Science and methodology (was: Homeopathy ... tradition?)\nSummary: Ultimately, ideas come from exploration and informal thinking.\nOrganization: University of Hawaii (Mathematics Dept)\nExpires: Mon, 10 May 1993 10:00:00 GMT\nLines: 65\n\nIn article <C5L9ws.Jn2@unx.sas.com> sasghm@theseus.unx.sas.com \n (Gary Merrill) writes:\n>\n>In article <1993Apr16.155919.28040@cs.rochester.edu>, fulk@cs.rochester.edu \n (Mark Fulk) writes:\n>\n>|> Flights of fancy, and other irrational approaches, are common. The crucial\n>|> thing is not to sit around just having fantasies; they aren\'t of any use\n>|> unless they make you do some experiments. ....\n>|> \n>|> (Simple example: Warren Jelinek noticed an extremely heavy band on a DNA\n>|> electrophoresis gel of human ALU fragments. He got very excited, .....\n>\n>But why do you characterize this as a "flight of fancy" or a "fantasy"?\n>While I am unfamiliar with the scientific context here, it appears obvious\n>that his speculation (for lack of a better or more neutral word) was\n>at least in significant part a consequence of his knowledge of and acceptance\n>of current theory coupled with his observations. It would appear that\n>something quite rational was going on as he attempted to fit his observation\n>into that theory (or to tailor the theory to cover the observation). ...\n\nWhether a scientific idea comes while one is staring out the window, or\ndreaming, or having a fantasy, or watching an apple fall (Newton), or\nsitting in a bath (Archimedes) ... it is ultimately the result of a lot of\nintense scientific thinking done beforehand. Letting one\'s mind roam\nfreely and giving rein to one\'s intuition can be a useful way of coming\nup with new ideas, but only when one has done a lot of rational analysis\nof the problem first. \n\nScientific intuition is not something one is born with. It is something\nthat one learns. Maybe we don\'t understand completely how it is learned,\nbut training in systematic scientific thinking is certainly one of the \nkey elements in developing it. \n\nInformal exploration is also often an important element in finding new\nscientific ideas. One thinks, for instance, of Darwin\'s naturalistic\nstudies in the Galapagos islands, which led him to the ideas for the \ntheory of evolution. \n\nThis is why I am offended by a definition of science that emphasizes\nempirical verification and does not recognize thinking and informal\nexploration as important scientific work. I agree that mere speculation\ndoes not deserve to be called science. I also think that mere empirical\nstudies not directed by good scientific thinking are at best a very\npoor kind of science. \n\nIn article <1qk92lINNl55@im4u.cs.utexas.edu> turpin@cs.utexas.edu \n (Russell Turpin) writes:\n> ...\n>I think that Lee Lady and I are talking at cross purposes.\n> ... Lady seems concerned with the contrast between great\n>science that makes big advances in our knowledge and mediocre\n>science that makes smaller steps. In most of this thread, I have\n>been concerned with the difference between what is science and\n>what is not. \n\nI don\'t think that science should be defined in a way that some of the\nactivities that lead to really important science --- namely thinking and\ninformal exploration --- are not recognized as scientific work. \n\n--\nIn the arguments between behaviorists and cognitivists, psychology seems \nless like a science than a collection of competing religious sects. \n\nlady@uhunix.uhcc.hawaii.edu lady@uhunix.bitnet\n',
"From: ab961@Freenet.carleton.ca (Robert Allison)\nSubject: Frequent nosebleeds\nReply-To: ab961@Freenet.carleton.ca (Robert Allison)\nOrganization: The National Capital Freenet\nLines: 18\n\n\nI have between 15 and 25 nosebleeds each week, as a result of a genetic\npredisposition to weak capillary walls (Osler-Weber-Rendu). Fortunately,\neach nosebleed is of short duration.\n\nDoes anyone know of any method to reduce this frequency? My younger brothers\neach tried a skin transplant (thigh to nose lining), but their nosebleeds\nsoon returned. I've seen a reference to an herb called Rutin that is\nsupposed to help, and I'd like to hear of experiences with it, or other\ntechniques.\n-- \nRobert Allison\nOttawa, Ontario CANADA\n",
'From: graeme@labtam.labtam.oz.au (Graeme Gill)\nSubject: Re: looking for circle algorithm faster than Bresenhams\nOrganization: Labtam Australia Pty. Ltd., Melbourne, Australia\nLines: 28\n\nIn article <1993Apr13.025240.8884@nwnexus.WA.COM>, mpdillon@halcyon.com (Michael Dillon) writes:\n> I have an algorithm similar to Bresenhams line drawing algorithm, that\n> draws a line by stepping along the minor axis and drawing slices like\n> AAAA, BBBB, CCCC in the following diagram.\n> \n> AAAA\n> BBBB\n> CCCC\n> \n\n\tYes, that\'s known as "Bresenhams Run Length Slice Algorithm for\nIncremental lines". See Fundamental Algorithms for Computer Graphics,\nSpringer-Verlag, Berlin Heidelberg 1985.\n\n> I have tried to extrapolate this to circles but I can\'t figure out\n> how to determine the length of the slices. Any ideas?\n\n\tHmm. I don\'t think I can help you with this, but you might\ntake a look at the following:\n\n\t"Double-Step Incremental Generation of Lines and Circles",\nX. Wu and J. G. Rokne, Computer Graphics and Image processing,\nVol 37, No. 4, Mar. 1987, pp. 331-334\n\n\t"Double-Step Generation of Ellipses", X. Wu and J. G. Rokne,\nIEEE Computer Graphics & Applications, May 1989, pp. 56-69\n\n\tGraeme Gill.\n',
"From: prestonm@cs.man.ac.uk (Martin Preston)\nSubject: Re: TIFF: philosophical significance of 42\nLines: 18\n\nIn <C5sCGu.1LL@mentor.cc.purdue.edu> ab@nova.cc.purdue.edu (Allen B) writes:\n\n>I've got the 6.0 spec (obviously since I quoted it in my last posting). \n>My gripe about TIFF is that it's far too complicated and nearly\n>infinitely easier to write than to read,...\n\nWhy not use the PD C library for reading/writing TIFF files? It took me a\ngood 20 minutes to start using them in your own app.\n\nMartin\n\n--\n---------------------------------------------------------------------------\n|Martin Preston, (m.preston@manchester.ac.uk) | Computer Graphics |\n|Computer Graphics Unit, Manchester Computing Centre, | is just |\n|University of Manchester, | a load of balls. |\n|Manchester, U.K., M13 9PL Phone : 061 275 6095 | |\n---------------------------------------------------------------------------\n",
'From: (Rashid)\nSubject: Re: The Inimitable Rushdie (Re: An Anecdote about Islam\nNntp-Posting-Host: 47.252.4.179\nOrganization: NH\nLines: 31\n\nIn article <1993Apr14.121134.12187@monu6.cc.monash.edu.au>,\ndarice@yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au (Fred Rice) wrote:\n> \n> >In article <C5C7Cn.5GB@ra.nrl.navy.mil> khan@itd.itd.nrl.navy.mil (Umar Khan) writes:\nStuff deleted\n> >>What we should be demanding, is for Khomeini and his ilk to publicly\n> >>come clean and to show their proof that Islamic Law punishes\n> >>apostacy with death or that it tolerates any similar form of\n> >>coversion of freedom of conscience.\n\nAll five schools of law (to the best of my knowledge) support the\ndeath sentence for apostasy WHEN it is accompanied by open, persistent,\nand aggravated hostility to Islam. Otherwise\nI agree, there is no legal support for punishment of disbelief.\nThe Qur\'an makes it clear that belief is a matter of conscience. Public\nor private disavowal of Islam or conversion to another faith is not\npunishable (there are some jurists who have gone against this\ntrend and insisted that apostasy is punishable (even by death) - but\nhistorically they are the exception.\n\nCursing and Insulting the Prophets falls under the category of "Shatim".\n\n> \n> I just borrowed a book from the library on Khomeini\'s fatwa etc.\n>Lots of stuff deleted<\n> \n> And, according to the above analysis, it looks like Khomeini\'s offering\n> of a reward for Rushdie\'s death in fact constitutes a criminal act\n> according to Islamic law.\n\nPlease see my post under "Re: Yet more Rushdie (ISLAMIC LAW)".\n',
'From: geb@cs.pitt.edu (Gordon Banks)\nSubject: Re: CAN\'T BREATHE\nArticle-I.D.: pitt.19438\nReply-To: geb@cs.pitt.edu (Gordon Banks)\nOrganization: Univ. of Pittsburgh Computer Science\nLines: 33\n\nIn article <1p8t1p$mvv@agate.berkeley.edu> romdas@uclink.berkeley.edu (Ella I Baff) writes:\n\n>\n>Re: the prostate treatment is worse than the disease...In medicine there \n>really is something histologically identified as prostate tissue and \n>there are observable changes which take place, that whenever they occur, \n>can be identified as prostate cancer. What if I told you that most chiropractorstreat Subluxation (Spinal Demons), which don\'t exist at all. Therefore any \n>tissue damage incurred in a chiropractic treatment performed \n>in an effort to exorcise this elusive Silent Killer, such as ligamentous\n>damage and laxity, microfracture of the joint surfaces, rib fractures, \n>strokes, paralysis,etc., is by definition worse than non-treatment.\n>\n>John Badanes, DC, CA\n>email: romdas@uclink.berkeley.edu\n\nWhat does "DC" stand for? Couldn\'t be an antichiropractic posting\nfrom a chiropractor, could it? My curiosity is piqued.\n\nProstate CA is an especially troublesome entity for chiropractors.\nIt so typically causes bone pain due to spinal metastases that it\ngets manipulated frequently. Manipulating a cancer riddled bone\nis highly dangerous, since it can then fracture. I\'ve seen at\nleast three cases where this happened with resulting neurologic\ndamage, including paraplegia. This is one instance where knowing\nhow to read x-rays can really help a chiropractor stay out of trouble.\nDO chiropractors know what bony mets from prostate look like?\n\n\n-- \n----------------------------------------------------------------------------\nGordon Banks N3JXP | "Skepticism is the chastity of the intellect, and\ngeb@cadre.dsl.pitt.edu | it is shameful to surrender it too soon." \n----------------------------------------------------------------------------\n',
"From: decay@cbnewsj.cb.att.com (dean.kaflowitz)\nSubject: Re: some thoughts.\nOrganization: AT&T\nDistribution: na\nLines: 13\n\nIn article <EDM.93Apr15104322@gocart.twisto.compaq.com>, edm@twisto.compaq.com (Ed McCreary) writes:\n> >>>>> On Thu, 15 Apr 1993 04:54:38 GMT, bissda@saturn.wwc.edu (DAN LAWRENCE BISSELL) said:\n> \n> DLB> \tFirst I want to start right out and say that I'm a Christian. It \n> DLB> makes sense to be one. Have any of you read Tony Campollo's book- liar, \n> DLB>lunatic, or the real thing? (I might be a little off on the title, but he \n> DLB>writes the book. Anyway he was part of an effort to destroy Christianity, \n> DLB> in the process he became a Christian himself.\n> \n> Here we go again...\n\nJust the friendly folks at Christian Central, come to save you.\n\n",
"From: rgc3679@bcstec.ca.boeing.com (Robert G. Carpenter)\nSubject: Re: Please Recommend 3D Graphics Library F\nOrganization: Boeing\nLines: 13\n\nSorry about not mentioning platform... my original post was to mac.programmer,\nand then decided to post here to comp.graphics.\n\nI'd like the 3D software to run on primarily Mac in either C, Object Pascal\n(Think or MPW). But, I'll port to Windows later, so a package that runs on\nMac and has a Windows version would be ideal.\n\nI'm looking for a package that has low upfront costs, and reasonable licensing\ncosts... of course :)\n\nBobC\n\n\n",
'From: lbutler@hubcap.clemson.edu (L Clator Butler Jr)\nSubject: Re: DID HE REALLY RISE???\nOrganization: Clemson University\nLines: 11\n\nmcovingt@aisun3.ai.uga.edu (Michael Covington) writes:\n>(2) Nobody ever displayed the dead body of Jesus, even though both the\n>Jewish and the Roman authorities would have gained a lot by doing so\n>(it would have discredited the Christians).\n\nIt is told in the Gospels that the Pharisees (sp.?) and scribes bribed\nthe Roman soldiers to say that the Diciples stole his body in the night.\nGood enough excuse for the Jewish and Roman objectives (of that day).\n\n--Clator\n--lbutler@hubcap.clemson.edu\n',
'From: rschmitt@shearson.com (Robert Schmitt)\nSubject: Re: Please Recommend 3D Graphics Library F\nReply-To: rschmitt@shearson.com\nOrganization: Lehman Brothers, Inc.\nLines: 9\n\nWhat hardware do plan to run on? Workstation or PC? Cost level?\nRun-time licensing needs?\n\nBob\n------------------------------------------------------------------\nRobert A. Schmitt | Applied Derivatives Technology | Lehman Brothers\nrschmitt@shearson.com\n\n\n',
'From: mathew <mathew@mantis.co.uk>\nSubject: Re: The Inimitable Rushdie (Re: An Anecdote about Islam\nOrganization: Mantis Consultants, Cambridge. UK.\nX-Newsreader: rusnews v1.01\nLines: 32\n\njaeger@buphy.bu.edu (Gregg Jaeger) writes:\n> Why would the Rushdie case be particularly legitimate? As I\'ve said\n> elsewhere on this issue, Rushdie\'s actions had effects in Islamic\n> countries so that it is not so simple to say that he didn\'t commit\n> a crime in an Islamic country.\n\nActually, it is simple.\n\nA person P has committed a crime C in country X if P was within the borders\nof X at the time when C was committed. It doesn\'t matter if the physical\nmanifestation of C is outside X.\n\nFor instance, if I hack into NASA\'s Ames Research Lab and delete all their\nfiles, I have committed a crime in the United Kingdom. If the US authorities\nwish to prosecute me under US law rather than UK law, they have no automatic\nright to do so.\n\nThis is why the net authorities in the US tried to put pressure on some sites\nin Holland. Holland had no anti-cracking legislation, and so it was viewed\nas a "hacker haven" by some US system administrators.\n\nSimilarly, a company called Red Hot Television is broadcasting pornographic\nmaterial which can be received in Britain. If they were broadcasting in\nBritain, they would be committing a crime. But they are not, they are\nbroadcasting from Denmark, so the British Government is powerless to do\nanything about it, in spite of the apparent law-breaking.\n\nOf course, I\'m not a lawyer, so I could be wrong. More confusingly, I could\nbe right in some countries but not in others...\n\n\nmathew\n',
"From: jfreund@taquito.engr.ucdavis.edu (Jason Freund)\nSubject: Info on Medical Imaging systems\nOrganization: College of Engineering - University of California - Davis\nLines: 10\n\n\n\tHi, \n\n\tIs anyone into medical imaging? I have a good ray tracing background,\nand I'm interested in that field. Could you point me to some sources? Or\nbetter yet, if you have any experience, do you want to talk about what's\ngoing on or what you're working on?\n\nThanks,\nJason Freund\n",
'From: gt7122b@prism.gatech.edu (boundary)\nSubject: Re: DID HE REALLY RISE???\nOrganization: Georgia Institute of Technology\nLines: 50\n\nIn article <Apr.15.00.57.56.1993.28857@athos.rutgers.edu> reedr@cgsvax.claremont.edu writes:\n>\n>> I disagree with your claim that Jews were not evangelistic (except in\n>> the narrow sense of the word). Jewish proselytism was widespread.\n>> There are numerous accounts of Jewish proselytism, both in the New\n>> Testament and in Roman and Greek documents of the day.\n\nI am not so sure of Jewish proselytism then, but I would like to relate\nan account of a recent dinner I had with Jews a few months ago.\n\nThe dinner was instigated by the aunt of the hostess, whom I had met while\nvisiting my wife in Galveston last October. The dear old aunt (now \ndeceased) was very proud of her Jewish heritage, although not especially\ndevout. Her parents were both murdered in Nazi concentration camps in\nAustria during WWII because they were Jewish. While conversing with her\nabout politics, world affairs and religion, she remarked that it would \nbe a good idea for me to visit her niece on my return to Atlanta.\n\nWithin two days of returning to Atlanta, her niece called to invite\nme over for dinner with her husband. I went, not knowing really what to\nexpect, other than stimulating conversation and fellowship. What I got,\nhowever, was rather unexpected. The thrust of the evening\'s discussion\nwas to condemn the Reagan-Bush policies prohibiting abortion counseling \nin federally funded family planning clinics, prohibiting the sterilization\nof minorities on welfare here and in Puerto Rico, on\nthe ban on fetal tissue research, and against the Mexico City policy,\n"which denies U.S. foreign aid to programs overseas that promote abortion."\n\nThe crux of their position was to place the blame for the problems of\n"overpopulation," rampant domestic crime, African starvation, unwed\nmothers, etc., on Christianity, rather on the fall of Adam. Now, this\nis not what I had to come to talk about. But every time I tried to \nbring up the subject of Judaism, they would condemn Jews for Jesus\nand admonish me against converting to Judaism, "because it involves\ntoo much study and effort." And I did not even raise the prospect, nor\ntry to convert them to the truth of Christ! There was certainly no\nJewish proselytism going on there.\n\nAnd again, last November I toured a "traditional" Jewish synagogue and was\nsubjected to a 30-minute harangue against Jesus and Christianity in\ngeneral. I realize that these are two isolated incidents, and that the\nbest supervisor I ever had at work is Jewish, but from my experience,\nthe modern Jew is not known for his proselytism.\n\n \n-- \nboundary\n\nno teneis que pensar que yo haya venido a traer la paz a la tierra; no he\nvenido a traer la paz, sino la guerra (Mateo 10:34, Vulgata Latina) \n',
'From: eeerik@cc.newcastle.edu.au\nSubject: Color palette for 256 color VGA rainbow\nOrganization: University of Newcastle, AUSTRALIA\nLines: 11\n\nDoes anybody out there have or know how to calculate the RGB values \nrequired to set the 256 color VGA palette so that the colors from \n0..255 will give 256 colors of the rainbow ie red, orange, \nyellow, etc.\n\nAny help would be appreciated. Please email to eeerik@cc.newcastle.edu.au\n\nErik de Castro Lopo,\nDept. Electrical & Computer Eng.,\nUni. of Newcastle,\nAustralia.\n',
"From: jhpb@sarto.budd-lake.nj.us (Joseph H. Buehler)\nSubject: Re: quality of Catholic liturgy\nOrganization: none\nLines: 13\n\nTim Rolfe writes:\n\n without active participation. If you know the Latin, one really\n beautiful way to hear the Passion is it's being chanted by three\n deacons: the Narrator chants in the middle baritone range, Jesus chants\n in the bass, and others directly quoted are handled by a high tenor.\n\nI heard the Gregorian chant of the Passion on Good Friday. In this\nliturgy, our Lord is definitely *very* sad. It's as if He has\nresigned Himself to die for these poor pitiful creatures who are\nkilling Him.\n\nThe chant is *quite* beautiful.\n",
'From: db7n+@andrew.cmu.edu (D. Andrew Byler)\nSubject: Re: Revelations - BABYLON?\nOrganization: Freshman, Civil Engineering, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA\nLines: 27\n\nHal Heydt writes:\n\n>That was only the fall of the *Western* Empire. The *Eastern* Empire\n>continued for another 1000 years--and a key element in it\'s fall was\n>the *Christian* sack of Constantinople.\n\nNote that I said the fall of Rome, not of the Empire. The Roman Empire\nlasted until 1453, with its transfered capital in Constantinople. The\nmain reason for it\'s fall was not so much the sack of Constantinople by\nthe men of the 4th Crusade (who were not Christians - they had been\nexcommunicated down to the last man after attacking the Christian city\nof Zara in Croatia), but rather the disastorous defeat in the battle of\nMazinkert. After the Turks breached the frontier, it was only a matter\nof time before the Empire fell, the inability of the Empire to hold onto\nthe rim of Anatolia, with the Ottomans and Rum Seljuks in the middle\nshould be quite obvious to any student of history. The sack of\nConstantinople only hastened the inevitable along. For if the Greeks\nhad wanted to save their empire, why would they not cooperate with the\nCrusaders when they came to do battle with the Saracens in the 1st-3rd\nCrusades? Because of their obstinacy over cooperating with people they\nconsidered heretics, even though those "heretics" were fighting for the\ncause of the Empire and Christendom in doing battle with the Turkish\nhordes in Anatolia, Edessa, Lebanon, Palastine, and Syria, the some\nhordes who were to later sack Constantinople, and overrun a third of\nEurope (the Balkans, Hungary, the Ukraine, the Caucasus, etc.)\n\nAndy Byler\n',
"From: db7n+@andrew.cmu.edu (D. Andrew Byler)\nSubject: Monophysites and Mike Walker\nLines: 45\n\n>\t\t- Mike Walker \n> \n>[If you are using the standard formula of fully God and fully human,\n>that I'm not sure why you object to saying that Jesus was human. I\n>think the usual analysis would be that sin is not part of the basic\n>definition of humanity. It's a consequence of the fall. Jesus is\n>human, but not a fallen human. --clh]\n\nThe proper term for what Mike expresses is Monophysitism. This was a\nheresy that was condemned in the Council of Chalcedon in 451 AD. It\ngrew up in reaction to Nestorianism, which held that the Son and Jesus\nare two different people who happened to be united in the same body\ntemporarily. Monophysitism is held by the Copts of Egypt and Ethipoia\nand by the Jacobites of Syria and the Armenian Orthodox. It believes\nthat Jesus Christ was God (which is correct), that he was man (which is\ncorrect), that he was one person (which is correct), but that he had\nonly one nature and one will and oen energy (which is heretical, the\northodox position is that he had two natures and two wills and two\nenergies, both divine and human, though the wills were in perfect\nharmony). That is what Mike is trying to get across, that while Jesus\ncame in human form, Mike says He did not have a human nature or a human\nwill. In reality, he had both, though neither made him subject to\noriginal sin.\nIt is interesting to note that the Monothelites were a reaction to this\nconflict and attempted to solve the problem by admitting two natures but\nnot two wills or two energies. It also was condemned, at a late council\nin Constantinople I believe.\n\nAndy Byler\n\n[These issues get mighty subtle. When you see people saying different\nthings it's often hard to tell whether they really mean seriously\ndifferent things, or whether they are using different terminology. I\ndon't think there's any question that there is a problem with\nNestorius, and I would agree that the saying Christ had a human form\nwithout a real human nature or will is heretical. But I'd like to be\na bit wary about the Copts, Armenians, etc. Recent discussions\nsuggest that their monophysite position may not be as far from\northodoxy as many had thought. Nestorius was an extreme\nrepresentative of one of the two major schools of thought. More\nmoderate representatives were regarded as orthodox, e.g. Theodore of\nMopsuestia. My impression is that the modern monophysite groups\ninherit the entire tradition, not just Nestorius' version, and that\nsome of them may have a sufficient balanced position to be regarded as\northodox. --clh]\n",
'From: talluri@osage.csc.ti.com (Raj Talluri)\nSubject: Point of intersection of n lines\nKeywords: robust statistics\nNntp-Posting-Host: osage\nOrganization: Texas Instruments\nLines: 21\n\nHi,\n\nCan anybody suggest robust algorithms/code for computing the point of intersection\non n, 2-d lines in a plane. The data has outliers and hence a simple least squares\ntechnique does not seem to provide satifactory results.\n\nPlease respond by e-mail and I will post the summary to the newsgroups\nif there is sufficient interest.\n\nThanks,\n\nRaj Talluri\nMember Technical Staff\nImage Understanding Branch\nTexas Instruments\nCentral Research Labs\nDallas, Texas 75248\n\ntalluri@csc.ti.com\n\n\n',
"From: ukrphil@prlhp1.prl.philips.co.uk (M.J.Phillips)\nSubject: Re: Rumours about 3DO ???\nReply-To: ukrphil@prlhp1.UUCP (M.J.Phillips)\nOrganization: Philips Research Laboratories, Redhill, UK\nLines: 7\n\nThe 68070 _does_ exist. It's number was licensed to Philips to make their\nown variant. This chip includes extra featurfes such as more I/O ports, \nI2C bus... making it more microcontroller like.\n\nBecause of the confusion with numbering (!), Philips other products in the\n[range with the 68??? core have been given differend numbers like PCF...\nor PCD7.. or something.\n",
'From: squeegee@world.std.com (Stephen C. Gilardi)\nSubject: Need PostScript strokeadjust info\nSummary: Seeking algorithm for endpoint "snapping"\nKeywords: postscript emulation adjust stroke strokeadjust\nOrganization: SQ Software via The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA\nLines: 31\n\nI need information on the Display PostScript strokeadjust feature.\nThis feature adjusts the endpoints of lines so that the displayed line\nlooks better on low resolution devices.\n\nThe PostScript literature explains the process to some extent. They\nalso give an example of how to "emulate" strokeadjust in PostScript\nenvironments where it is absent.\n\nThe suggested emulation is to modify the coordinates of the endpoints\nof a line using the following formula for each coordinate:\n\n\tnew_coord = (round (old_coord - 0.25)) + 0.25\n\t\nDoing this we end up with all coordinates ending in ".25". From\nreading I thought that what they might actually do is:\n\n\tnew_coord = ((trunc (old_coord * 2)) / 2) + 0.25\n\t\nThis results in all the coordinates ending in either "0.25" or "0.75" \nwhichever is closer.\n\nBy doing some actual comparisons with Display PostScript, I find that\nneither of these is what DPS really uses. Since I like how the DPS\nresult looks better than how my stuff looks, I\'d like to know if\nanyone who knows how DPS does it is willing/able to tell me.\n\nThanks,\n\n--Steve\nsqueegee@world.std.com\n\n',
'From: kcochran@nyx.cs.du.edu (Keith "Justified And Ancient" Cochran)\nSubject: We don\'t need no stinking subjects!\nX-Disclaimer: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University\n\tof Denver for the Denver community. The University has neither\n\tcontrol over nor responsibility for the opinions of users.\nOrganization: The Loyal Order Of Keiths.\nLines: 93\n\nIn article <1ql1avINN38a@gap.caltech.edu> keith@cco.caltech.edu (Keith Allan Schneider) writes:\n>kcochran@nyx.cs.du.edu (Keith "Justified And Ancient" Cochran) writes:\n>>keith@cco.caltech.edu (Keith Allan Schneider) writes:\n>>>kcochran@nyx.cs.du.edu (Keith "Justified And Ancient" Cochran) writes:\n>\n>>No, if you\'re going to claim something, then it is up to you to prove it.\n>>Think "Cold Fusion".\n>\n>Well, I\'ve provided examples to show that the trend was general, and you\n>(or others) have provided some counterexamples, mostly ones surrounding\n>mating practices, etc. I don\'t think that these few cases are enough to\n>disprove the general trend of natural morality. And, again, the mating\n>practices need to be reexamined...\n\nSo what you\'re saying is that your mind is made up, and you\'ll just explain\naway any differences at being statistically insignificant?\n\n>>>Try to find "immoral" non-mating-related activities.\n>>So you\'re excluding mating-related-activities from your "natural morality"?\n>\n>No, but mating practices are a special case. I\'ll have to think about it\n>some more.\n\nSo you\'ll just explain away any inconsistancies in your "theory" as being\n"a special case".\n\n>>>Yes, I think that the natural system can be objectively deduced with the\n>>>goal of species propogation in mind. But, I am not equating the two\n>>>as you so think. That is, an objective system isn\'t necessarily the\n>>>natural one.\n>>Are you or are you not the man who wrote:\n>>"A natural moral system is the objective moral system that most animals\n>> follow".\n>\n>Indeed. But, while the natural system is objective, all objective systems\n>are not the natural one. So, the terms can not be equated. The natural\n>system is a subset of the objective ones.\n\nYou just equated them. Re-read your own words.\n\n>>Now, since homosexuality has been observed in most animals (including\n>>birds and dolphins), are you going to claim that "most animals" have\n>>the capacity of being immoral?\n>\n>I don\'t claim that homosexuality is immoral. It isn\'t harmful, although\n>it isn\'t helpful either (to the mating process). And, when you say that\n>homosexuality is observed in the animal kingdom, don\'t you mean "bisexuality?"\n\nA study release in 1991 found that 11% of female seagulls are lesbians.\n\n>>>Well, I\'m saying that these goals are not inherent. That is why they must\n>>>be postulates, because there is not really a way to determine them\n>>>otherwise (although it could be argued that they arise from the natural\n>>>goal--but they are somewhat removed).\n>>Postulate: To assume; posit.\n>\n>That\'s right. The goals themselves aren\'t inherent.\n>\n>>I can create a theory with a postulate that the Sun revolves around the\n>>Earth, that the moon is actually made of green cheese, and the stars are\n>>the portions of Angels that intrudes into three-dimensional reality.\n>\n>You could, but such would contradict observations.\n\nNow, apply this last sentence of your to YOUR theory. Notice how your are\ncontridicting observations?\n\n>>I can build a mathematical proof with a postulate that given the length\n>>of one side of a triangle, the length of a second side of the triangle, and\n>>the degree of angle connecting them, I can determine the length of the\n>>third side.\n>\n>But a postulate is something that is generally (or always) found to be\n>true. I don\'t think your postulate would be valid.\n\nYou don\'t know much math, do you? The ability to use SAS to determine the\nlength of the third side of the triangle is fundemental to geometry.\n\n>>Guess which one people are going to be more receptive to. In order to assume\n>>something about your system, you have to be able to show that your postulates\n>>work.\n>\n>Yes, and I think the goals of survival and happiness *do* work. You think\n>they don\'t? Or are they not good goals?\n\nGoals <> postulates.\n\nAgain, if one of the "goals" of this "objective/natural morality" system\nyou are proposing is "survival of the species", then homosexuality is\nimmoral.\n--\n=kcochran@nyx.cs.du.edu | B(0-4) c- d- e++ f- g++ k(+) m r(-) s++(+) t | TSAKC=\n=My thoughts, my posts, my ideas, my responsibility, my beer, my pizza. OK???=\n',
"From: bebmza@sru001.chvpkh.chevron.com (Beverly M. Zalan)\nSubject: Re: Frequent nosebleeds\nReply-To: bebmza@sru001.chvpkh.chevron.com (Beverly M. Zalan)\nOrganization: chevron\nLines: 24\nX-Newsreader: InterCon TCP/Connect II 1.1\n\nIn article <1993Apr17.195202.28921@freenet.carleton.ca>, \nab961@Freenet.carleton.ca (Robert Allison) writes:\n\n> \n> \n> I have between 15 and 25 nosebleeds each week, as a result of a genetic \n> predisposition to weak capillary walls (Osler-Weber-Rendu). \n> Fortunately, each nosebleed is of short duration. \n> \n> Does anyone know of any method to reduce this frequency? My younger \n> brothers each tried a skin transplant (thigh to nose lining), but their \n> nosebleeds soon returned. I've seen a reference to an herb called Rutin \n> that is supposed to help, and I'd like to hear of experiences with it, \n> or other techniques. \n> -- \n\n\nMy 6 year son is so plagued. Lots of vaseline up his nose each night seems \nto keep it under control. But let him get bopped there, and he'll recur for \ndays! Also allergies, colds, dry air all seem to contribute. But again, the \nvaseline, or A&D ointment, or neosporin all seem to keep them from recurring.\n\n\nBev Zalan\n",
'From: un034214@wvnvms.wvnet.edu\nSubject: M-MOTION VIDEO CARD: YUV to RGB ?\nOrganization: West Virginia Network for Educational Telecomputing\nLines: 21\n\nI am trying to convert an m-motion (IBM) video file format YUV to RGB \ndata...\n\nTHE Y portion is a byte from 0-255\nTHE V is a byte -127-127\nTHe color is U and V\nand the intensity is Y\n\nDOes anyone have any ideas for algorhtyms or programs ?\n\nCan someone tell me where to get info on the U and V of a television signal ?\n\nIF you need more info reply at the e-mail address...\nBasically what I am doing is converting a digital NTSC format to RGB (VGA)\nfor displaying captured video pictures.\n\nThanks.\n\n\nTHE U is a byte -127-127\n\n',
'From: dsnyder@falcon.aamrl.wpafb.af.mil\nSubject: Re: Real Time Graphics??\nDistribution: na\nOrganization: USAF AL/CFH, WPAFB, Dayton, OH\nLines: 30\n\nIn article <C4vA9r.KK7@taurus.cs.nps.navy.mil>, stockel@oahu.oc.nps.navy.mil (Jim Stockel) writes:\n> Hi,\n> \n> I will be writing a data acquisition program to collect data from a\n> variety of sources including RS232, and external A/D\'s, and I would\n> like to be able to display the data in near realtime. I\'ve done this\n> type of thing on PC\'s and other machines, but I am unaware of any graphics\n> package that could help me with this on a UNIX machine.\n> \n> .......\n> \n> Does anyone have any ideas on commercial or "free" packages that might\n> suit my needs? I would really appreciate any input. I\'m sure this has\n> been done many times before.\n> \n\n For a commerical package try WAVE from Precision Visuals\n 505-530-6563\n\n For a free package try KHOROS from University of New Mexico\n 508-277-6563\n ftp from\n ptrg.eece.unm.edu\n\n Login in anonyomus or ftp with a valid email address as the password\n cd /pub/khoros/release\n\n That will get you to the right place.\n\n David\n',
'From: jaeger@buphy.bu.edu (Gregg Jaeger)\nSubject: Re: The Inimitable Rushdie\nOrganization: Boston University Physics Department\nLines: 27\n\nIn article <1qlb7oINN684@shelley.u.washington.edu> \njimh@carson.u.washington.edu (James Hogan) writes:\n\n\n>20:52 P.S.T. I come to my senses and accept the all-knowing\n>wisdom and power of the Quran and Allah. Not only that, but Allah \n>himself drops by to congratulate me on my wise choice. Allah rolls a\n>few bones and we get down. Then Allah gets out the Crisco, bends \n>over, and invites me to take a spin around the block. Wow.\n\n\n>20:56 P.S.T. I realize that maybe Allah is looking for more of a \n>commitment than I\'m ready for, so I say "Man, I\'ve got some\n>programming to do. Gotta go. I\'ll call you."\n\n\n>20:59 P.S.T Thinking it over, I renounce Islam.\n\nWhat loyalty!\n\nJim, it seems you\'ve been reading a little too much Russell Hoban\nlately. As Hemingway said, my imitators always imitate the _bad_\naspects of my writing. Hoban would, no doubt, say the same here.\n\n\n\nGregg\n',
'From: daniel@lclark.edu (Daniel Snodgrass)\nSubject: Re: stand alone editing suite.\nArticle-I.D.: lclark.1993Apr20.191542.9392\nOrganization: Lewis & Clark College, Portland OR\nLines: 63\n\nIn article <1qvkaeINNgat@shelley.u.washington.edu> eylerken@stein.u.washington.edu (Ken Eyler) writes:\n>I need some help. We are upgrading our animation/video editing stand. We\n>are looking into the different type of setups for A/B roll and a cuts only\n>station. We would like this to be controlled by a computer ( brand doesnt matter but maybe MAC, or AMIGA). Low end to high end system setups would be very\n>helpful. If you have a system or use a system that might be of use, could you\n>mail me your system requirements, what it is used for, and all the hardware and\n>software that will be necessary to set the system up. If you need more \n>info, you can mail me at eylerken@u.washington.edu\n>\n>thanks in advance.\n>\n>:ken\n>:eylerken@u.washington.edu\n\n\nHere at Lewis and Clark College we have recently installed a Digital Film\nsystem (based on the Mac Quadra) that does non-linear, full digital editing.\n\nIf you\'re considering such a system, here are the pros and cons:\n\nFor the educational environment, this system is excellent. We use it to\nproduce a variety of educational materials for disemination on our local\nnetwork. Because this programming is going to be viewed on other Macs, the\nimage quality is not as important as the ability to directly export the\nvideo to the Net.\n\nWe also use it to produce orientiation and promotional video programs for\nuse by the Lewis & Clark community. Since these programs are not meant for\ncommercial or broadcast use, image quality is not critical.\n\nThe Digital Film system, for those of you who are uninitiated, is an A/B roll\ndigitizing system on one $5000 JPEG compression card. It was promoted as\nan inexpensive online editing system with SVHS quality. SuperMac, the maker\nof the card, is trying to achieve this quality level, but as yet, has been\nunable to deliver. Our system produces "near VHS" quality at 30 fields per\nsecond (640x480 overscan). The card repeats every other field to get 60\nfields per second. This results in a kind of Super 8 film look that some\nfind distracting.\n\nIf you can get past this problem, you\'ll find the Adobe Premier editing \nsoftware quite enjoyable with which to work. It produces thousands of\ndifferent effects from crystalize filters to DVE transitions to color matting.\n\nBecause of its non-linear nature, editing is fast and easy. If you\'ve ever\nused (or seen used) an AVID or Montage system, you\'ll recognize the methodology\nand the user interface.\n\nThe total system with Quadra 950 (40Megs of RAM), 1 gig drive, 21" Apple mon-\nitor, Panasonic SVHS 1960 edit deck, audio gear (cassette, CD, EQ, mixer, etc),\nComposite monitor, Digital Film card will set you back about $20,000.\n\nFor you video cowboys and girls, this system will not output at a quality\nthat will satisfy most of your clients. Even though you can perform more\neffects than a toasterhead can imagine, an Amiga based off-line based system\nwill look better.\n\nWe use both Macs and Amigas for our video work. Each for what each does best!\n\n\nDan Snodgrass\nMedia Services\nLewis & Clark College\nPortland\n',
"Subject: Re: Americans and Evolution\nFrom: halat@pooh.bears (Jim Halat)\nReply-To: halat@pooh.bears (Jim Halat)\nLines: 10\n\nIn article <j0=5l3=@rpi.edu>, johnsd2@jec322.its.rpi.edu (Dan Johnson) writes:\n>In article 143048IO30436@MAINE.MAINE.EDU, <IO30436@MAINE.MAINE.EDU> () writes:\n\nDan Johnson-\n\nYou don't know me, but take this hand anyway. Bravo for GO(DS) = 0. \nBeautiful! Simply beautiful!\n\n-jim halat\n\n",
"From: lmvec@westminster.ac.uk (William Hargreaves)\nSubject: Help\nOrganization: University of Westminster\nLines: 25\n\nHi everyone, \n\t I'm a commited Christian that is battling with a problem. I know\nthat romans talks about how we are saved by our faith not our deeds, yet\nhebrews and james say that faith without deeds is useless, saying' You fools,\ndo you still think that just believing is enough?'\n\nNow if someone is fully believing but there life is totally lead by themselves\nand not by God, according to Romans that person is still saved by there faith.\nBut then there is the bit which says that God preferes someone who is cold to\nhim (i.e. doesn't know him - condemned) so a lukewarm Christian someone who\nknows and believes in God but doesn't make any attempt to live by the bible.\n\nNow I am of the opinion that you a saved through faith alone (not what you do)\nas taught in Romans, but how can I square up in my mind the teachings of James\nin conjunction with the lukewarm Christian being 'spat-out'\n\nCan anyone help me, this really bothers me.\n\nIn Christ,\nWill\n\n-- \n============================================\n| Dallas Cowboys - World Champions 1992-93 |\n============================================\n",
'From: fulk@cs.rochester.edu (Mark Fulk)\nSubject: Re: Science and methodology (was: Homeopathy ... tradition?)\nOrganization: University of Rochester\n\nIn article <1993Apr15.150550.15347@ecsvax.uncecs.edu> ccreegan@ecsvax.uncecs.edu (Charles L. Creegan) writes:\n>\n>What about Kekule\'s infamous derivation of the idea of benzene rings\n>from a daydream of snakes in the fire biting their tails? Is this\n>specific enough to count? Certainly it turns up repeatedly in basic\n>phil. of sci. texts as an example of the inventive component of\n>hypothesizing. \n\nAnd has been rather thoroughly demolished as myth by Robert Scott Root-\nBernstein. See his book, "Discovering". Ring structures for benzene\nhad been proposed before Kekule\', after him, and at the same time as him.\nThe current models do not resemble Kekule\'s. Many of the predecessors\nof Kekule\'s structure resemble the modern model more.\n\nI don\'t think "extra-scientific" is a very useful phrase in a discussion\nof the boundaries of science, except as a proposed definiens. Extra-rational\nis a better phrase. In fact, there are quite a number of well-known cases\nof extra-rational considerations driving science in a useful direction.\n\nFor example, Pasteur discovered that racemic acid was a mixture of\nenantiomers (the origin of stereochemistry) partly because he liked a\nfriend\'s crank theory of chemical action. The friend was wrong, but\nPasteur\'s discovery stood. A prior investigator (Mitscherlich), looking\nat the same phenomenon, had missed a crucial detail; presumably because he\nlacked Pasteur\'s motivation to find something that distinguished racemic\nacid from tartaric (now we say: d-tartaric) acid.\n\nAgain, Pasteur discovered the differential fermentation of enantiomers\n(tartaric acid again) not because of some rational conviction, but because\nhe was trying to produce yeast that lived on l-tartaric acid. His notebooks\ncontained fantasies of becoming the "Newton of mirror-image life," which\nhe never admitted publically.\n\nPerhaps the best example is the discovery that DNA carries genes. Avery\nstarted this work because of one of his students, and ardent Anglophile\nand Francophobe Canadian, defended Fred Griffiths\' discoveries in mice.\nMost of Griffiths\' critics were French, which decided the issue for the\nstudent. Avery told him to replicate Griffiths\' work in vitro, which the\nstudent eventually did, whereupon Avery was convinced and started the\nresearch program which, in 15 or so years, produced the famous discovery\n(Avery, MacLeod, and McCarty, JEM 1944).\n-- \nMark A. Fulk\t\t\tUniversity of Rochester\nComputer Science Department\tfulk@cs.rochester.edu\n',
'From: harwood@umiacs.umd.edu (David Harwood)\nSubject: Re: Essene New Testament\nOrganization: UMIACS, University of Maryland, College Park, MD 20742\nLines: 11\n\n[William Christie asked about the Essene NT.\nAndrew Kille reponded\n>There is a collection of gospels which usually goes under the name of the\n>"Essene Gospel of Peace." These are derived from the gnostics, not the\n>essenes, and are ostensibly translations from syriac texts of the fourth \n>and fifth centuries (I vaguely recall; I can\'t find my copy right now).\n--clh]\n\nThere had been recent criticism of this in a listserv for academic\nBiblical scholars: they all say the book(s) are modern fakes.\nD.H.\n',
'From: mussack@austin.ibm.com (Christopher Mussack)\nSubject: Re: Christian\'s need for Christianity\nLines: 44\n\nIn article <Apr.19.05.12.31.1993.29175@athos.rutgers.edu>, lmh@juliet.caltech.edu (Henling, Lawrence M.) writes:\n> In article <Apr.16.23.17.40.1993.1861@geneva.rutgers.edu<, mussack@austin.ibm.com writes...\n> << < For example: why does the universe exist at all? \n> \n> <Whether there is a "why" or not we have to find it. This is Pascal\'s(?) wager.\n> <If there is no why and we spend our lives searching, then we have merely\n> <wasted our lives, which were meaningless anyway. If there is a why and we\n> ..\n> I find this view of Christianity to be quite disheartening and sad.\n> The idea that life only has meaning or importance if there is a Creator\n> does not seem like much of a basis for belief.\n\nPlease forgive all the inclusions. I suppose they are neccessary to follow\nthe argument.\n\nMy point is that "if life has meaning or importance then we should try\nto find that meaning or importance" which is almost a tautology. (I hope\nI\'m not being too patronizing.) One term for that meaning is "Creator",\nthough that is not obvious from my above argument.\n\n> And the logic is also appalling: "God must exist because I want Him to."\n\n(It\'s more like "I think, therefore I am, therefore God is.")\n\n> I have heard this line of "reasoning" before and wonder how prevalent\n> it is. Certainly in modern society many people are convinced life is\n> hopeless (or so the pollsters and newscasts state), but I don\'t see\n> where this is a good reason to become religious. If you want \'meaning\'\n> why not just join a cult, such as in Waco? The leaders will give you\n> the security blanket you desire.\n\nUnfortunately the term "religious" is ambiguous to me in this context.\nI could say that searching for meaning in life is by definition being\nreligious. I could say cult followers by definition have given up on \nthe search.\n\nIf you want "meaning" why not search for the truth?\n\nSo far, my understanding of Christianity is congruent with my understanding\nof truth. There have been many before me who have come to conclusions \nthat are worded in ways that make sense to me. By no means does that imply\nthat I understand everything. \n\nChris Mussack\n',
'From: jemurray@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (John E Murray)\nSubject: quality of Catholic liturgy\nOrganization: The Ohio State University\nLines: 37\n\nI would like the opinion of netters on a subject that has been bothering my\nwife and me lately: liturgy, in particular, Catholic liturgy. In the last few\nyears it seems that there are more and more ad hoc events during Mass. It\'s\ndriving me crazy! The most grace-filled aspect of a liturgical tradition is\nthat what happens is something we _all_ do together, because we all know how to \ndo it. Led by the priest, of course, which makes it a kind of dialogue we \npresent to God. But the best Masses I\'ve been to were participatory prayers.\n\nLately, I think the proportion of participation has fallen, and the proportion\nof sitting there and watching, or listening, or generally being told what to do\n(which is necessary because no one knows what\'s happening next) is growing.\nExample. Last Sunday (Palm Sunday) we went to the local church. Usually\non Palm Sunday, the congregation participates in reading the Passion, taking\nthe role of the mob. The theology behind this seems profound--when we say\n"Crucify him" we mean it. We did it, and if He came back today we\'d do it\nagain. It always gives me chills. But last week we were "invited" to sit\nduring the Gospel (=Passion) and _listen_. Besides the Orwellian "invitation", \nI was really saddened to have my (and our) little role taken away. This seems\ntypical of a shift of participation away from the people, and toward the\nmusicians, readers, and so on. New things are introduced in the course of the\nliturgy and since no one knows what\'s happening, the new things have to be\nexplained, and pretty soon instead of _doing_ a lot of the Mass we\'re just\nsitting there listening (or spacing out, in my case) to how the Mass is about\nto be done. In my mind, I lay the blame on liturgy committees made up of lay\n"experts", but that may not be just. I do think that a liturgy committee has a\nbias toward doing something rather than nothing--that\'s just a fact of\nbureaucratic life--even though a simpler liturgy may in fact make it easier for\npeople to be aware of the Lord\'s presence.\n\nSo we\'ve been wondering--are we the oddballs, or is the quality of the Mass\ngoing down? I don\'t mean that facetiously. We go to Mass every Thursday or\nFriday and are reminded of the power of a very simple liturgy to make us aware \nof God\'s presence. But as far as the obligatory Sunday Masses...maybe I should \njust offer it up :) Has anyone else noticed declining congregational\nparticipation in Catholic Masses lately?\n\nJohn Murray\n',
'From: salaris@niblick.ecn.purdue.edu (Rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrabbits)\nSubject: Satan and MTV\nOrganization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network\nLines: 25\n\nSomewhere, someone told me that Satan was the angel in charge of\nmusic in heaven, and on top of that, he was the most beautiful\nof the angels. Isn\'t it funny that these days how MTV has become\nthe "bible" of music and beauty these days. MTV controls what bands\nare popular, no matter how bad they are. In fact, it is better to\nbe politically correct - like U2, Madonna - than to have any\nmusical talent. Then of course, you have this television station\nthat tells us all how to dress. Think about it, who started the\nretro-fashion craze?? MTV and Madonna. Gag.\n\nAnyway, just food for thought. It is really my own wierd theory.\n\nIf Revelation was to come true today, I think MTV would the "ever\nchanging waters" (music and fashion world) that the beast would\narise from, and Madonna will be the whore of Babylon, riding the\nbeast and drinking the blood of the martyrs.\n\nHmmmm....great idea for a book/movie.....\n\n\n--\nSteven C. Salaris We\'re...a lot more dangerous than 2 Live Crew\nsalaris@carcs1.wustl.edu and their stupid use of foul language because\n\t\t\t\t we have ideas. We have a philosophy.\n\t\t\t\t\t Geoff Tate -- Queensryche\n',
"From: simon@giaeb.cc.monash.edu.au (simon shields)\nSubject: SSPX schism ?\nOrganization: Monash University, Melb., Australia.\nLines: 78\n\nHi All\n\nHope you all had a Blessed Easter. I have a document which I believe\nrefutes the notion that the SSPX (Society of Saint Pius X) is in\nschism, or that there has been any legitimate excommunication. If\nanyone is interested in reading the truth about this matter please\nemail me and I'll send them the document via email. Its 26 pages long,\nso I wont be posting it on the news group.\n\nIts titled\n\n\n NEITHER SCHISMATIC NOR EXCOMMUNICATED\n\n\n This article was originally an English\ttranslation, by the\n Society of Saint\tPius X in Ireland, from the French Journal\n 'Courrier de Rome'. The French article, in its\tturn, was a\n translation from the Italian of the Roman Newsletter 'Si Si No\n No'.\n\n This booklet contains the transcription, with some minor editing,\n of\tthe Irish article, and was transcribed and produced by John\n Clay, Townsville, Queensland, Australia.\n\n (There is no copyright attached. Simon Shields)\n\n CONTENTS \n\n NEITHER SCHISMATIC NOR EXCOMMUNICATED.......................1\n CATHOLICS ON THE RACK.......................................1\n THE CHOICE OF THE 'SENSUS FIDEI'............................3\n AMBIGUITY...................................................4\n THE CHURCH IS NOT BICEPHALOUS (TWO-HEADED)..................6\n THE PERSON AND THE FUNCTION OF THE POPE.....................6\n UNITY OF FAITH AND UNITY OF COMMUNION.......................8\n THE CRITERIA OF CHOICE.....................................10\n ECUMENISM - AN ATTACK ON THE UNITY OF THE CHURCH...........10\n THE EXTRAORDINARY SITUATION WITHIN THE CHURCH..............11\n EXTRAORDINARY DUTIES OF LAY PEOPLE.........................12\n DUTIES AND POWERS OF BISHOPS...............................14\n FROM THE FACT OF THEIR GREATER DUTIES......................14\n FROM THE FACT OF THEIR GREATER POWER.......................14\n THE POWER AND THE DUTY OF THE PAPACY.......................15\n THE ELECTION OF BISHOPS....................................15\n STATE AND RIGHT OF NECESSITY...............................16\n 1. THERE IS IN THE CHURCH A REAL STATE OF NECESSITY........17\n FOR SOULS..................................................18\n FOR SEMINARIANS............................................18\n 2. ALL THE ORDINARY MEANS HAVE BEEN EXHAUSTED..............19\n 3. THE ACT ITSELF IS NOT INTRINSICALLY EVIL AND THERE RESUL..........21\n 4. IN THE LIMITS OF EFFECTIVE REQUIREMENTS.................22\n 5. THE AUTHORITY OF THE POPE IS NOT PUT INTO QUESTION......23\n THE EXCOMMUNICATION........................................24\n CONCLUSION.................................................25\n BIBLIOGRAPHY...............................................26-31\n\nGod Bless ye all,\n\n\n\nAn Irish Fairwell\n\nmay the road rise to meet you\nmay the wind be always at your back\nmay the sun shine warm upon your face, \nthe rains fall soft upon your fields,\nand until we meet again,\nmay God hold you in the palm of his hand.\n\n\n--\n/----------------------------------------------------------------|-------\\\n| Simon P. Shields Programmer Viva Cristo Rey !! ----|---- |\n| MONASH UNIVERSITY COLLEGE GIPPSLAND Ph:+61 51 226 357 .JHS. |\n| Switchback Rd. Churchill. Fax:+61 51 226 300 |\\|/| |\n| Australia 3842 Internet: simon@giaec.cc.monash.edu.au |M J| |\n\\------------------------------------------------------------------------/\n",
'From: bruce@liv.ac.uk (Bruce Stephens)\nSubject: Re: Question from an agnostic\nOrganization: Centre for Mathematical Software Research, Univ. Liverpool\nLines: 16\n\n>>>>> On 2 May 93 13:53:23 GMT, damon@math.okstate.edu (HASTINGS DAMON TOD) said:\n\n> A Christian friend of mine once reasoned that if we were never created, then\n> we could not exist. Therefore we were created, and therefore there exists a\n> Creator.\n\n> Is this statement considered to be a valid proof by many Christians (and\n> followers of other religions, I suppose)? [rest deleted]\n\nSome variant is quite popular. This, and other arguments, are\ndiscussed in John Leslie Mackie\'s "The Miracle of Theism: arguments\nfor and against the existence of God". Although Mackie ultimately\nsides with "against", his arguments are, I think, quite fair to both\nsides. Brief discussions can be found in the alt.atheism FAQs.\n--\nBruce CMSR, University of Liverpool\n',
'From: andersom@spot.Colorado.EDU (Marc Anderson)\nSubject: Miracle Berries anyone?\nNntp-Posting-Host: spot.colorado.edu\nOrganization: University of Colorado, Boulder\nLines: 47\n\n[From Kalat, J.W.. (1992): _Biological Psychology_. Wadsworth Publishing Co.\nBelmont, CA. Pg. 219. Reproduced without permission.]\n\n\n\nDigression 6.1: Miracle Berries and the Modification of Taste Receptors\n\nAlthough the _miracle berry_, a plant native to West Africa is practically\ntasteless, it temporarily changes the taste of other substances. Miracle\nberries contain a protein, _miraculin_, that modifies sweet receptors in\nsuch a way that they can be stimulated by acids (Bartoshuk, Gentile, \nMoskowitz, & Meiselman, 1974). If you ever get a chance to chew a miracle\nberry (and I do recommend it), for about the next half an hour all acids \n(which are normally sour) will taste sweet. They will continue to taste\nsour as well.\n\nMiraculin was, for a time, commercially available in the United States as a\ndiet aid. The idea was that dieters could coat their tongue with a miraculin\npill and then eat and drink unsweetened, slightly acidic substances. Such\nsubstances would taste sweet without providing many calories.\n\nA colleague and I once spent an evening experimenting with miracle berries.\nWe drank straight lemon juice, sauerkraut juice, even vinegar. All tasted\nextremely sweet. Somehow we forgot how acidic these substances are. We \nawoke the next day to find our mouths full of ulcers.\n\n[... continued discussion of a couple other taste-altering substances ...]\n\n\nRefs: \n\nBartoshuk, L.M., Gentile, R.L., Moskowitz, H.R., & Meiselman, H.L. (1974):\n Sweet taste induced by miracle fruit (_Synsephalum dulcificum_). \n _Physiology & Behavior_. 12(6):449-456.\n\n\n-------------\n\n\nAnyone ever hear of these things or know where to get them?\n\n\n-marc\nandersom@spot.colorado.edu\n\n\n\n',
'From: livesey@solntze.wpd.sgi.com (Jon Livesey)\nSubject: Re: <<Pompous ass\nOrganization: sgi\nLines: 20\nDistribution: world\nNNTP-Posting-Host: solntze.wpd.sgi.com\n\nIn article <1qlef4INN8dn@gap.caltech.edu>, keith@cco.caltech.edu (Keith Allan Schneider) writes:\n|> livesey@solntze.wpd.sgi.com (Jon Livesey) writes:\n|> \n|> [...]\n|> >>The "`little\' things" above were in reference to Germany, clearly. People\n|> >>said that there were similar things in Germany, but no one could name any.\n|> >That\'s not true. I gave you two examples. One was the rather\n|> >pevasive anti-semitism in German Christianity well before Hitler\n|> >arrived. The other was the system of social ranks that were used\n|> >in Imperail Germany and Austria to distinguish Jews from the rest \n|> >of the population.\n|> \n|> These don\'t seem like "little things" to me. At least, they are orders\n|> worse than the motto. Do you think that the motto is a "little thing"\n|> that will lead to worse things?\n\nYou don\'t think these are little things because with twenty-twenty\nhindsight, you know what they led to.\n\njon.\n',
"From: george@ccmail.larc.nasa.gov (George M. Brown)\nSubject: QC/MSC code to view/save images\nOrganization: Client Specific Systems, Inc.\nLines: 12\nNNTP-Posting-Host: thrasher.larc.nasa.gov\n\nDear Binary Newsers,\n\nI am looking for Quick C or Microsoft C code for image decoding from file for\nVGA viewing and saving images from/to GIF, TIFF, PCX, or JPEG format. I have\nscoured the Internet, but its like trying to find a Dr. Seuss spell checker \nTSR. It must be out there, and there's no need to reinvent the wheel.\n\nThanx in advance.\n\n//////////////\n\n The Internet is like a Black Hole....\n",
'From: keith@cco.caltech.edu (Keith Allan Schneider)\nSubject: Re: <Political Atheists?\nOrganization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena\nLines: 191\nNNTP-Posting-Host: punisher.caltech.edu\n\nlivesey@solntze.wpd.sgi.com (Jon Livesey) writes:\n\n>Much though it might be fun to debate capital punishment itself,\n>this is probably the wrong group for it. The only relevance here\n>is that you don\'t seem to be able to tell us what capital punishment\n>actually is, and when it is murder. That is, when you tell us murder\n>is wrong, you are using a term you have not yet defined.\n\nWell, I\'ve said that when an innocent person has been executed, this is\nobjectively a murder. However, who is at blame is another question.\nIt seems that the entire society that sanctions any sorts of executions--\nrealizing the risks--is to blame.\n\n>There is a *probability* of \n>killing an innocent person by shooting at random into the air, and \n>there is a *probability* of killing an innocent person when the\n>state administers a system of capital punishment. So when you do\n>either, you know that they actions you are taking will sooner or \n>later result in the killing of an innocent person.\n\nYes, but there is also a probablity that you will kill someone doing\nany raondom activity. Presumably, you had not isolated yourself totally\nfrom the rest of society because of this.\n\n>>And, driving will kill people, as will airlines, but people continue to do\n>>both.\n>Driving and flying are not punishments inflicted on unwilling\n>prisoners by Courts. They are risks that we take upon ourselves\n>willingly.\n\nAnd I argue that our law system is a similar risk. Perhaps an innocent\nperson will be punished someday, but we work to prevent this. In fact,\nmany criminals go free as a result of our trying to prevent punishment\nof innocents.\n\n>If our own driving kills someone else, then sure, there is a moral\n>issue. I know at least one person who was involved in a fatal\n>accident, and they felt vey guilty afterwards.\n\nBut, such accidents are to be totally expected, given the numner of vehicals\non the road. Again, the blame is on society.\n\n>>No I\'m not. This is what you said. You were saying that if there were such\n>>a false witness that resulted in an innocent person being convicted and killed\n>>, it would still be the fault of the state, since it did the actual killing.\n>No, I just commented that the state does the killing. It does not\n>depend on there being false witnesses. How could it? The state\n>does the killing even in the case of sincere mistakes\n\nYes, but the state is not at fault in such a case. The state can only do\nso much to prevent false witnesses.\n\n>>It is possible. So, what are you trying to say, that capital punishment\n>>is always murder because of the possibilty of human error invalidating\n>>the system?\n>I\'m saying capital punishment is murder, period. Not because of\n>this that and the other, but because it involves taking human life.\n>That\'s *my* definition of murder. I make no appeals to dictionaries\n>or to "objective" morals.\n\nOkay, so this is what you call murder. But, the question is whether or not\nall such "murders" are wrong. Are you saying that all taking of human life\nis wrong, no matter what the circumstances?\n\n>If we, as a society, decide to murder someone, then we should say\n>that, and lists our reasons for doing so, and live with the moral\n>consequences. We should not play word games and pretend that\n>murder isn\'t murder. And that\'s *my* opinion about how society\n>ought to be run.\n\nBut, this is basically how it works. Society accepts the risk that an\ninnocent person will be murdered by execution. And, every member of\nsociety shares this blame. And, most people\'s definitions of murder\ninclude some sort of malicious intent, which is not involved in an\nexecution, is it?\n\n>>But, we were trying to discuss an objective moral system, or at least its\n>>possibilty. What ramifications does your personal system have on an\n>>objective one?\n>No, we were not discussing an objective moral system. I was showing\n>you that you didn\'t have one, because, for one thing, you were incapable\n>of defining the terms in it, for example, "murder".\n\nMurder violates the golden rule. Executions do not, because by allowing\nit at all, society implicitly accepts the consequences no matter who the\ninnocent victim is.\n\n>>We\'re not talking about reading minds, we are just talking about knowing the\n>>truth. Yes, we can never be absolutely certain that we have the truth, but\n>>the court systems work on a principle of knowing the "truth" "beyond a\n>>reasonable doubt." \n>Sorry, but you simply are not quoting yourself accurately. Here\n>is what you said:\n>\t"And, since we are looking totally objectively at this case,\n>\tthen we know what people are thinking when they are voting to\n>\texecute the person or not. If the intent is malicious and \n>\tunfair, then the execution would be murder."\n>What you are doing now is to slide into another claim, which is\n>quite different. The jury being *persuaded* beyond a serious\n>doubt is not the same as us knowing what is in their minds beyond\n>a serious doubt.\n\nReading the minds of the jury would certainly tell whether or not a conviction\nwas moral or not. But, in an objective system, only the absolute truth\nmatters, and the jury system is one method to approximate such a truth. That\nis, twelve members must be convinced of a truth.\n\n>Moreover, a jury which comes from a sufficiently prejudiced background\n>may allow itself to be persuaded beyond a serious doubt on evidence\n>that you and I would laugh at.\n\nBut then, if we read the minds of these people, we would know that the\nconviction was unfair.\n\n>>But, would it be perfectly fair if we could read minds? If we assume that\n>>it would be fair if we knew the absolute truth, why is it so much less\n>>fair, in your opinion, if we only have a good approximation of the absolute\n>>truth?\n>It\'s not a question of fairness. Your claim, which I have quoted\n>above is a claim about whether we can *know* it was fair, so as to\n>be able to distinguish capital punishnment from murder.\n\nYes, while we could objectively determine the difference (if we knew all\npossible information), we can\'t always determine the difference in our\nflawed system. I think that our system is almost as good as possible,\nbut it still isn\'t objectively perfect. You see, it doesn\'t matter if\nwe *know* it is fair or not. Objectively, it is either fair or it is not.\n\n>Now there\'s a huge difference. If we can read minds, we can know,\n>and if we cannot read minds, we can know nothing. The difference\n>is not in degree of fairness, but in what we can know.\n\nBut what we know has no effect on an objective system.\n\n>>I think it is possible to produce a fairly objective system, if we are\n>>clear on which goals it is supposed to promote.\n>I\'m not going to waste my time trying to devise a system that I am\n>pretty sure does not exist.\n\nWhy are you so sure?\n\n>I simply want people to confront reality. *My* reality, remember.\n\nWhy is *your* reality important?\n\n>In this case, the reality is that, "ideal theories\' apart, we can\n>never know, even after the fact, about the fairness of the justice\n>system. For every innocent person released from Death Row, there\n>may have been a dozen innocent people executed, or a hundred, or\n>none at all. We simply don\'t know.\n\nBut, we can assume that the system is fairly decent, at least most likely.\nAnd, you realize that the correctness of our system says nothing about a\ntotally ideal and objective system.\n\n>Now what are we going to do? On the one hand, we can pretend\n>that we have an \'ideal\' theory, and that we can know things we can\n>never know, and the Justie System is fair, and that we can wave a \n>magic wand and make certain types of killing not murder, and go \n>on our way.\n\nWell, we can have an ideal system, but the working system can not be ideal.\nWe can only hope to create a system that is as close an approximation to\nthe ideal system as possible.\n\n>On the other hand, we can recognize that all Justice has a small\n>- we hope - probability of punishing the innocent, and that in the\n>end we do bear moral responsibility even for the probabilistic\n>consequences of the systems we set up, and then say, "Well, here\n>we go, murdering again." Maybe some of us will even say "Gee, I\n>wonder if all this is strictly necessary?"\n\nYes, we all bear the responsibility. Most people seem willing to do this.\n\n>I think that the second is preferable in that if requires people\n>to face the moral consequences of what we do as a society, instead\n>of sheltering ourselves from them by magic ceremonies and word \n>games.\n\nWe must realize the consequences of all our actions. Why do you keep\nseparating the justice system from the pack?\n\n>And lest I forget, I also don\'t think we have an objective moral\n>system, and I believe I only have to take that idea seriously\n>when someone presents evidence of it.\n\nI don\'t think our country has an objective system, but I think such an\nobjective system can exist, in theory. Without omniscience, an objective\nsystem is not possible in practice.\n\nkeith\n',
'From: geb@cs.pitt.edu (Gordon Banks)\nSubject: Re: "liver" spots\nReply-To: geb@cs.pitt.edu (Gordon Banks)\nOrganization: Univ. of Pittsburgh Computer Science\nLines: 13\n\nIn article <1993Apr19.162502.29802@news.eng.convex.com> cash@convex.com (Peter Cash) writes:\n>What causes those little brown spots on older people\'s hands? Are they\n>called "liver spots" because they\'re sort of liver-colored, or do they\n>indicate some actual liver dysfunction?\n\nSenile keratoses. Have nothing to do with the liver.\n\n\n-- \n----------------------------------------------------------------------------\nGordon Banks N3JXP | "Skepticism is the chastity of the intellect, and\ngeb@cadre.dsl.pitt.edu | it is shameful to surrender it too soon." \n----------------------------------------------------------------------------\n',
'From: caf@omen.UUCP (Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX)\nSubject: Re: My New Diet --> IT WORKS GREAT !!!!\nOrganization: Omen Technology INC, Portland Rain Forest\nLines: 33\n\nIn article <19687@pitt.UUCP> geb@cs.pitt.edu (Gordon Banks) writes:\n>\n>In article <1993Apr13.093300.29529@omen.UUCP> caf@omen.UUCP (Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX) writes:\n>>\n>>"Weight rebound" is a term used in the medical literature on\n>>obesity to denote weight regain beyond what was lost in a diet\n>>cycle. There are any number of terms which mean one thing to\n>\n>Can you provide a reference to substantiate that gaining back\n>the lost weight does not constitute "weight rebound" until it\n>exceeds the starting weight? Or is this oral tradition that\n>is shared only among you obesity researchers?\n\nNot one, but two:\n\nObesity in Europe 88,\nproceedings of the 1st European Congress on Obesity\n\nAnnals of NY Acad. Sci. 1987\n\n\n>-- \n>----------------------------------------------------------------------------\n>Gordon Banks N3JXP | "Skepticism is the chastity of the intellect, and\n>geb@cadre.dsl.pitt.edu | it is shameful to surrender it too soon." \n>----------------------------------------------------------------------------\n\n\n-- \nChuck Forsberg WA7KGX ...!tektronix!reed!omen!caf \nAuthor of YMODEM, ZMODEM, Professional-YAM, ZCOMM, and DSZ\n Omen Technology Inc "The High Reliability Software"\n17505-V NW Sauvie IS RD Portland OR 97231 503-621-3406\n',
"From: solmstead@PFC.Forestry.CA (Sherry Olmstead)\nSubject: Re: Heat Shock Proteins\nNntp-Posting-Host: pfc.pfc.forestry.ca\nReply-To: solmstead@PFC.Forestry.CA\nOrganization: Forestry Canada (Pacific Forestry Centre)\nLines: 25\n\nrousseaua@immunex.com writes about heat shock proteins (HSP's) and DNA.\n\nI hate to be derogatory, but in this case I think it's warranted.\n\nHSP's are part of the cellular response to stress. The only reason they\nare called 'heat shock proteins' is because they were first demonstrated\nusing heat shock. Dead tissue (ie. meat) is not going to produce ANY\nprotein- because it's DEAD! \n\nAlso, who cares if the DNA you are ingesting is mutated!? It will be \ncompletely digested in your stomach, which is about pH 2. \n\nSome of you worry WAY too much. Eat a healthy, balanced diet and relax.\n\nMy advice is, if you don't know what you are talking about, it is better\nto keep your mouth shut than to open it and remove all doubt about your\nignorance. Don't speculate, or at least get some concrete information\nbefore you do!\n\nSherry Olmstead\nBiochemist\n\n SHERRY OLMSTEAD Title: Lab Technician\n Forestry Canada Phone: (604) 363-0600\n Victoria, B.C. Internet: SOLMSTEAD@A1.PFC.Forestry.CA\n",
'Subject: Re: Bill Conner:\nFrom: kmr4@po.CWRU.edu (Keith M. Ryan)\nOrganization: Case Western Reserve University\nNNTP-Posting-Host: b64635.student.cwru.edu\nLines: 17\n\nIn article <C4y976.MLr@darkside.osrhe.uoknor.edu> bil@okcforum.osrhe.edu (Bill Conner) writes:\n\n>Could you explain what any of this pertains to? Is this a position\n>statement on something or typing practice? And why are you using my\n>name, do you think this relates to anything I\'ve said and if so, what.\n>\n>Bill\n\n Could you explain what any of the above pertains to? Is this a position \nstatement on something or typing practice? \n--\n\n\n "Satan and the Angels do not have freewill. \n They do what god tells them to do. "\n\n S.N. Mozumder (snm6394@ultb.isc.rit.edu) \n',
'From: lindae@netcom.com\nSubject: Re: MORBUS MENIERE - is there a real remedy?\nOrganization: Netcom Online Communications Services (408-241-9760 login: guest)\nLines: 87\n\nIn article <19392@pitt.UUCP> geb@cs.pitt.edu (Gordon Banks) writes:\n>In article <lindaeC4JGLK.FxM@netcom.com> lindae@netcom.com writes:\n>\n>>\n>>My biggest resentment is the doctor who makes it seem like most\n>>people with dizziness can be cured. That\'s definitely not the\n>>case. In most cases, like I said above, it is a long, tedious\n>>process that may or may not end up in a partial cure. \n>>\n>\n>Be sure to say "chronic" dizziness, not just dizziness. Most\n>patients with acute or subacute dizziness will get better.\n>The vertiginous spells of Meniere\'s will also eventually go\n>away, however, the patient is left with a deaf ear.\n\nAll true. And all good points.\n\n>\n>>To anyone suffering with vertigo, dizziness, or any variation\n>>thereof, my best advice to you (as a fellow-sufferer) is this...\n>>just keep searching...don\'t let the doctors tell you there\'s\n>>nothing that can be done...do your own research...and let your\n>\n>This may have helped you, but I\'m not sure it is good general\n>advice. The odds that you are going to find some miracle with\n>your own research that is secret or hidden from general knowledge\n>for this or any other disease are slim. When good answers to these\n\n>then, spending a great deal of time and energy on the medical\n>problem may divert that energy from more productive things\n>in life. A limited amount should be spent to assure yourself\n>that your doctor gave you the correct story, but after it becomes\n>clear that you are dealing with a problem for which medicine\n>has no good solution, perhaps the best strategy is to join\n>the support group and keep abreast of new findings but not to\n>make a career out of it.\n\nWell, making a career out of it is a bit strong. I still believe\nthat doing your own research is very, very necessary. I would\nnot have progressed as much as I have today, unless I had spent\nthe many hours in Stanford\'s Med Library as I have done.\nAnd 5 years ago, it was clear that there was no medicine that \nwould help me. So should I have stopped searching. Thank\ngoodness I didn\'t. Now I found that there is indeed medicine\nthat helps me. \n\nI think that what you\'ve said is kind of idealistic. That you\nwould go to one doctor, get a diagnosis, maybe get a second\nopinion, and then move on with your life.\nJust as an example... having seen 6 of the top specialists in \nthis field in the country, I have received 6 different diagnoses.\nThese are the top names, the ones that people come to from all over\nthe country. I have HAD to sort all of this out myself. Going\nto a support group (and in fact, HEADING that support group) was \nhelpful for a while, but after a point, I found it very\nunproductive. It was much more productive to do library research,\nmake phone calls and put together the pieces of the puzzle myself.\n\nA recent movie, Lorenzo\'s Oil, offers a perfect example of what\nI\'m talking about. If you haven\'t seen it, you should. It\'s not\na put down of doctor\'s and neither is what I\'m saying. Doctors are\nonly human and can only do so much. But there are those of us\nout here who are intelligent and able to sometimes find a missing\npiece of the puzzle that might have otherwise gone unnoticed.\n\nI guess I\'m biased because dizziness is one of those weird things\nthat is still so unknown. If I had a broken arm, or a weak heart,\nor failing kidneys, I might not have the same opinion. That\'s because \nthose things are much more tangible and have much more concise \ndefinitions and treatments. With dizziness, you just have to\ndecide to live with it or decide to live with it while trying to\nfind your way out of it.\n\n\nI have chosen the latter.\n\n\nLinda\nlindae@netcom.netcom.com\n\n\n>\n>-- \n>----------------------------------------------------------------------------\n>Gordon Banks N3JXP | "Skepticism is the chastity of the intellect, and\n>geb@cadre.dsl.pitt.edu | it is shameful to surrender it too soon." \n>----------------------------------------------------------------------------\n',
'From: Petch@gvg47.gvg.tek.com (Chuck Petch)\nSubject: Daily Verse\nOrganization: Grass Valley Group, Grass Valley, CA\nLines: 4\n\nHe who overcomes will inherit all this, and I will be his God and he will\nbe my son. \n\nRevelation 21:7\n',
'From: renner@adobe.com (John Renner)\nSubject: Re: detecting double points in bezier curves\nOrganization: Adobe Systems Incorporated, Mountain View\nLines: 27\n\nIn article <19930420.090030.915@almaden.ibm.com> capelli@vnet.IBM.COM (Ron Capelli) writes:\n>In <ia522B1w165w@oeinck.waterland.wlink.nl> Ferdinand Oeinck writes:\n>>I\'m looking for any information on detecting and/or calculating a double\n>>point and/or cusp in a bezier curve.\n>\n>See:\n> Maureen Stone and Tony DeRose,\n> "A Geometric Characterization of Parametric Cubic Curves",\n> ACM TOG, vol 8, no 3, July 1989, pp. 147-163.\n\nI\'ve used that reference, and found that I needed to go to their\noriginal tech report:\n\n\tMaureen Stone and Tony DeRose,\n\t"Characterizing Cubic Bezier Curves"\n\tXerox EDL-88-8, December 1988\n\nThis report can be obtained for free from:\nXerox Corporation\nPalo Alto Research Center\n3333 Coyote Hill Road\nPalo Alto, California 94303\n+1-415-494-4440\n\nThe TOG paper was good, but this tech report had more interesting details ;-)\n\n-john\n',
'From: perry@dsinc.com (Jim Perry)\nSubject: Re: The Inimitable Rushdie\nOrganization: Decision Support Inc.\nLines: 72\nNNTP-Posting-Host: bozo.dsinc.com\n\nI apologize for the long delay in getting a response to this posted.\nI\'ve been working reduced hours the past couple of weeks because I had\na son born (the day after Umar\'s article was posted, btw). I did\nrespond within a couple of days, but it turns out that a a\ncoincidental news software rearrangement caused postings from this\nsite to silently disappear rather than going out into the world. This\nis a revision of that original response.\n\nIn article <C52q47.7Ct@ra.nrl.navy.mil> khan@itd.itd.nrl.navy.mil (Umar Khan) writes:\n>In article <1ps98fINNm2u@dsi.dsinc.com> perry@dsinc.com (Jim Perry) writes:\n>>Only a functional illiterate with absolutely no conception of the\n>>nature of the novel could think such a thing.\n\n[this was in response to the claim that "Rushdie made false statements\nabout the life of Mohammed", with the disclaimer "(fiction, I know,\nbut where is the line between fact and fiction?) - I stand by this\ndistinction between fiction and "false statements"]\n\n>>However, it\'s not for his writing in _The Satanic Verses_, but for\n>>what people have accepted as a propagandistic version of what is\n>>contained in that book. I have yet to find *one single muslim* who\n>>has convinced me that they have read the book. Some have initially\n>>claimed to have done so, but none has shown more knowledge of the book\n>>than a superficial Newsweek story might impart, and all have made\n>>factual misstatements about events in the book.\n>\n>You keep saying things like this. Then, you accuse people like me of\n>making ad hominem arguments. I repeat, as I have said in previous\n>postings on AA: I *have* read TSV from cover to cover\n\nI had not seen that claim, or I might have been less sweeping. You\nhave made what I consider factual misstatements about events in the\nbook, which I have raised in the past, in the "ISLAM: a clearer view"\nthread as well as the root of the "Yet more Rushdie [Re: ISLAMIC LAW]"\nthread. My statement was not that you had not read the book, but that\nyou had not convinced me that you [inter alia] had. As I said before,\nif you want to defend your position, then produce evidence, and\nrespond to the evidence I have posted; so far you have not. Of\ncourse, my statement was not directly aimed at you, but broadly at a\nnumber of Muslim posters who have repeated propaganda about the book,\nindicating that they haven\'t read it, and narrowly at Gregg Jaeger,\nwho subsequently admitted that he hadn\'t in fact read the book,\nvindicating my skepticism in at least that one case.\n\nSo far, the only things I have to go on regarding your own case are a)\nthe statements you made concerning the book in the "a clearer view"\nposting, which I have challenged (not interpretation, but statements\nof fact, for instance "Rushdie depicts the women of the most\nrespected family in all of Islam as whores"), and b) your claim (which\nI had not seen before this) that you have indeed read it cover to\ncover. I am willing to try to resolve this down to a disagreement on\ncritical interpretation, but you\'ll have to support your end, by\nresponding to my criticism. I have no doubt as to the ability of a\nparticular Muslim to go through this book with a highlighter finding\npassages to take personal offense at, but you have upheld the view\nthat "TSV *is* intended as an attack on Islam and upon Muslims". This\nview must be defended by more than mere assertion, if you want anyone\nto take it seriously.\n\n>I am trying very hard to be amicable and rational. \n\nAnd I appreciate it, but welcome to the club. I am defending my\nhonest opinion that this book should not be construed as a calculated\n(or otherwise) insulting attack on Islam, and the parallel opinion\nthat most of the criticism of the book I have seen is baseless\npropaganda. I have supported my statements and critical\ninterpretationa with in-context quotes from the book and Rushdie\'s\nessays, which is more than my correspondents have done. Of course,\nyou are more than welcome to do so.\n-- \nJim Perry perry@dsinc.com Decision Support, Inc., Matthews NC\nThese are my opinions. For a nominal fee, they can be yours.\n',
'From: ab@nova.cc.purdue.edu (Allen B)\nSubject: Re: thining algorithm\nOrganization: Purdue University\nLines: 15\n\nIn article <1q7615INNmi@shelley.u.washington.edu> kshin@stein.u.washington.edu \n(Kevin Shin) writes:\n> I am trying obtain program to preprocess handwriting characters.\n> Like thining algorithm, graph alogrithm.\n> Do anyone know where I can obtain those?\n\nI usually use "Algorithms for graphics and image processing" by\nTheodosios Pavlidis, but other people here got them same idea and now\n3 of 4 copies in the libraries have been stolen!\n\nAnother reference is "Digital Image Processing" by Gonzalez and\nWintz/Wood, which is widely available but a little expensive ($55\nhere- I just checked today).\n\nab\n',
'From: REXLEX@fnal.fnal.gov\nSubject: Babylon Book Offer\nOrganization: FNAL/AD/Net\nLines: 20\n\nFrom time to time I have made reference to a book called "The Two Babylons"\nwhich is a book written by Alexander Hislop (mid 1800\'s) about the Babylonian\nmystery religion and its flight through history. I was unable to put it down\nthe first time I read it, but others have found it dry. It has numberable\nreferences and illustrations. If you are interested in purchasing your own\ncopy, you can call Moody Book Store @ (312)329-4352 and order it for $16.99 and\nthey will ship it to you. \n It is a good book just to get the reference titles for your own digs into the\nmystery religions. I have found it invaluable for that purpose alone. But for\nthose who only want to skim the subject, it comes highly recommended. \n Just a note to my RC brothers and sisters. You may find this to be a\ndiatribe or you may find it to be a test to the origin and true nature of the\norigin of RCism. If you are offended by anything that asks hard questions\nabout your denomination (as to whether or not it is "Christian") then perhaps\nyou should just passover this offer. To those who are a little more\nadventurous, go for it and later, please contact me with you reasons pro or con\non the scholorship of this book. I really would be interested.\n\nadelphoi ev Christos,\nRex \n',
"From: mmm@cup.portal.com (Mark Robert Thorson)\nSubject: Re: What are the problems with Nutrasweet (Aspartame)?\nOrganization: The Portal System (TM)\nLines: 11\n\nPhenylketonuria is a disease in which the body cannot process phenylalanine.\nIt can build up in the blood and cause seizures and neurological damage.\nAn odd side effect is that the urine can be deeply colored, like red wine.\nPeople with the condition must avoid Nutrasweet, chocolate, and anything\nelse rich in phenylalanine.\n\nAspartame is accused of having caused various vague neurological symptoms.\nPat Robertson's program _The_700_Club_ was beating the drum against\naspartame rather vigorously for about a year, but that issue seems to\nhave been pushed to the back burner for the last year or so. Apparently,\nthe evidence is not very strong, or Pat would still be flailing away.\n",
"From: mz@moscom.com (Matthew Zenkar)\nSubject: Re: CView answers\nOrganization: Moscom Corp., E. Rochester, NY\nLines: 19\nX-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL9]\n\nRay Knight (rknight@stiatl.salestech.com) wrote:\n:uk02183@nx10.mik.uky.edu (bryan k williams) writes:\n\n:>re: majority of users not readding from floppy.\n:>Well, how about those of us who have 1400-picture CD-ROMS and would like to use\n:>CVIEW because it is fast and it works well, but can't because the moron lacked\n:>the foresight to create the temp file in the program's path, not the current\n:>didrectory?\n\n\n: Actually the most flexible way to create temp files is to check for a TEMP or\n: TMP environment variable and create the files on the drive and directory pointedto by the variable. This is pretty much a standard for DOS, Windows and OS/2\n: applications.\n\nUnfortunately, cview does not pay attention to the temp environment variable.\n\nMatthew Zenkar\nmz@moscom.com\n\n",
'From: csc3phx@vaxa.hofstra.edu\nSubject: Color problem.\nLines: 8\n\n\nI am scanning in a color image and it looks fine on the screen. When I \nconverted it into PCX,BMP,GIF files so as to get it into MS Windows the colors\ngot much lighter. For example the yellows became white. Any ideas?\n\nthanks\nDan\ncsc3phx@vaxc.hofstra.edu\n',
'From: scott@fcs280s.ncifcrf.gov (Michael Scott)\nSubject: Canon copier-printer/postscript questions.\nNntp-Posting-Host: fcs280s.ncifcrf.gov\nOrganization: Frederick Cancer Research and Development Center\nLines: 53\n\n\nPrinter model and specification:\n\nCanon CLC 500 (Color Laser Copier)\nps-ipu unit (postscript intelligent processing unit)\n\n\nHello,\n\nWe have recently purchased a very expensive and nice color copier/printer. \nWe want to be able to print to it from our SGI iris network. The \ncopier/printer has both a parallel and SCSI interface. I have configured the\nprinter with the "lp" system using the parallel interface and can print \npostscript files to the printer. I can also print rgb files, but these are in \nturn converted to postscript by an internal filter. The Canon CLC 500 is a \npublication quality printer but the quality of our postscript printouts \nare less than acceptable. We create the postscript files with a variaty of \nprograms, such as showcase, xv, and tops. When we convert to postscript \nwith tops and use the -l option to specify the halftone screen density of 98 \nrather than the default 40 the output is better, but still much less that \nacceptable. Note, that we are starting with a screen image in rgb image format\nand translating the image into postscript.\n\nWe suspect that if we could use the SCSI interface we would get higher quality \npictures. We have not purchased the software that drives the printer from the \nSCSI port. To my knowledge this software is $5000 and does not come with a \nwarranty. The management here does not want to spend this much money without \nsome assurance that the product will work.\n\n\nHere my questions:\n\nIf anybody on the net uses this printer are you using the SCSI or \nparallel port? What is the quality of the printouts?\n\nIs there a way to create high quality postscript printouts? What is the\nlimiting component, the postscript language or the postscript interpretor on \nthe printer?\n \nThe Big question:\n\nWhere can I get some software to drive the SCSI port for this printer?\n\n\n\nPlease email directly to me, I don\'t not read news on a regular basis. \nI will post a summary.\n\nThanks in advance.\n\n-- \n\tE-mail:\t\tscott@ncifcrf.gov ,Phone #:\t(301) 846-5798\n Title: \tSr. Systems Manager/Analyst\n',
'From: geb@cs.pitt.edu (Gordon Banks)\nSubject: Re: Update (Help!) [was "What is This [Is it Lyme\'s?]"]\nReply-To: geb@cs.pitt.edu (Gordon Banks)\nOrganization: Univ. of Pittsburgh Computer Science\nLines: 24\n\nIn article <1993Mar24.182145.11004@equator.com> jod@equator.com (John Setel O\'Donnell) writes:\n\n>IMHO, you have Lyme disease. \n\n\n>I sent you in private email a summary of the treatment protocols put\n>forth by the Lyme Disease Foundation. I respectfully suggest that you\n>save yourself a great deal of suffering by contacting them for a\n>Lyme-knowledgeable physician referral and seek treatment at once.\n>You\'ll know in 2 weeks if you\'re on the right course; and the clock is\n>ticking on your 6 weeks if you have it. 1-800-886-LYME.\n\nIf these folks are who I think they are, Lyme-knowledgeable may\nmean a physician to whom everything that walks in the door is\nlyme disease, and you will be treated for lyme, whether or not\nyou have it. Hope you have good insurance.\n\n\n\n-- \n----------------------------------------------------------------------------\nGordon Banks N3JXP | "Skepticism is the chastity of the intellect, and\ngeb@cadre.dsl.pitt.edu | it is shameful to surrender it too soon." \n----------------------------------------------------------------------------\n',
"From: I3150101@dbstu1.rz.tu-bs.de (Benedikt Rosenau)\nSubject: Re: Genocide is Caused by Theism : Evidence?\nOrganization: Technical University Braunschweig, Germany\nLines: 21\n\nIn article <1qibo2$f4o@horus.ap.mchp.sni.de>\nfrank@D012S658.uucp (Frank O'Dwyer) writes:\n \n>\n>#>In the absence of some convincing evidence that theist fanatics are more\n>#>dangerous than atheist fanatics, I'll continue to be wary of fanatics of\n>#>any stripe.\n>#\n>#I think that the agnostic fanatics are the most dangerous of the lot.\n>\n>Fair point, actually. I mentioned theists and atheists, but left out\n>agnostics. Mea culpa.\n>\n \nNo wonder in the light of that you are a probably a theist who tries\nto pass as an agnostic. I still remember your post about your daughter\nsinging Chrismas Carols and your feelings of it well.\n \nBy the way, would you show marginal honesty and answer the many questions\nyou left open when you ceased to respond last time?\n Benedikt\n",
'From: mmm@cup.portal.com (Mark Robert Thorson)\nSubject: Re: Barbecued foods and health risk\nOrganization: The Portal System (TM)\nDistribution: world\nLines: 33\n\n> I don\'t understand the assumption that because something is found to\n> be carcinogenic that "it would not be legal in the U.S.". I think that\n> naturally occuring substances (excluding "controlled" substances) are\n> pretty much unregulated in terms of their use as food, food additives\n> or other "consumption". It\'s only when the chemists concoct (sp?) an\n> ingredient that it falls under FDA regulations. Otherwise, if they \n> really looked closely they would find a reason to ban almost everything.\n> How in the world do you suppose it\'s legal to "consume" tobacco products\n> (which probably SHOULD be banned)?\n\nNo, there is something called the "Delany Amendment" which makes carcinogenic\nfood additives illegal in any amount. This was passed by Congress in the\n1950\'s, before stuff like mass spectrometry became available, which increased\ndetectable levels of substances by a couple orders of magnitude.\n\nThis is why things like cyclamates and Red #2 were banned. They are very\nweakly carcinogenic in huge quantities in rats, so under the Act they are\nbanned.\n\nThis also applies to natural carcinogens. Some of you might remember a\ntime back in the 1960\'s when root beer suddenly stopped tasting so good,\nand never tasted so good again. That was the time when safrole was banned.\nThis is the active flavoring ingredient in sassafras leaves.\n\nIf it were possible to market a root beer good like the old days, someone\nwould do it, in order to make money. The fact that no one does it indicates\nthat enforcement is still in effect.\n\nAn odd exception to the rule seems to be the product known as "gumbo file\'".\nThis is nothing more than coarsely ground dried sassafras leaves. This\nis not only a natural product, but a natural product still in its natural\nform, so maybe that\'s how they evade Delany. Or maybe a special exemption\nwas made, to appease powerful Louisiana Democrats.\n',
"From: jr0930@eve.albany.edu (REGAN JAMES P)\nSubject: Re: Pascal-Fractals\nOrganization: State University of New York at Albany\nLines: 10\n\nApparently, my editor didn't do what I wanted it to do, so I'll try again.\n\ni'm looking for any programs or code to do simple animation and/or\ndrawing using fractals in TurboPascal for an IBM\n Thanks in advance\n-- \n ||||||||||| \t\t \t ||||||||||| \n_|||||||||||_______________________|||||||||||_ jr0930@eve.albany.edu\n-|||||||||||-----------------------|||||||||||- jr0930@Albnyvms.bitnet\n ||||||||||| GO HEAVY OR GO HOME |||||||||||\n",
'From: acooper@mac.cc.macalstr.edu\nSubject: Re: some thoughts.\nOrganization: Macalester College\nLines: 100\n\nIn article <bissda.4.734849678@saturn.wwc.edu>, bissda@saturn.wwc.edu (DAN LAWRENCE BISSELL) writes:\n> \tFirst I want to start right out and say that I\'m a Christian. It \n\nThat\'s okay: it\'s what all the rest of them who come on here say...\n\n> makes sense to be one. Have any of you read Tony Campollo\'s book- liar, \n> lunatic, or the real thing? (I might be a little off on the title, but he \n> writes the book. Anyway he was part of an effort to destroy Christianity, \n> in the process he became a Christian himself.\n\nThis isn\'t the guy who was a lawyer was he? Could you give more info on this\nguy (never mind- I\'m sure there will be PLENTY of responses to this post, and\nit will appear there)\n\n> \tThe arguements he uses I am summing up. The book is about whether \n> Jesus was God or not. I know many of you don\'t believe, but listen to a \n> different perspective for we all have something to gain by listening to what \n> others have to say.\n\nThis is true. Make sure it is true for ALL cases.\n \n> \tThe book says that Jesus was either a liar, or he was crazy ( a\n\nWhy not both? ;)\n \n> modern day Koresh) or he was actually who he said he was.\n> \tSome reasons why he wouldn\'t be a liar are as follows. Who would \n> die for a lie? Wouldn\'t people be able to tell if he was a liar? \n\nWhy not die for a lie? If you were poverty stricken and alunatic, sounds\nperfecetly reasoable to me. As to whether the societal dregs he had for\nfollowers would be able to tell if he was a liar or not, not necessarily.\nEven if he died for what he believed in, this still makes him completely\nselfish. Like us all. So what\'s the difference.\n\n\nPeople \n> gathered around him and kept doing it, many gathered from hearing or seeing \n> someone who was or had been healed. Call me a fool, but I believe he did \n> heal people. \n\nThere is no historical proof of this (see earlier threads). Besides, he (or at\nleast his name), have been the cause of enough deaths to make up for whatever\nhealing he gave.\n\n\n> \tNiether was he a lunatic. Would more than an entire nation be drawn \n> to someone who was crazy. \n\nSIEG HEIL!!\n\n\n>Very doubtful, in fact rediculous. For example \n> anyone who is drawn to David Koresh is obviously a fool, logical people see \n> this right away.\n>\n\nWho is David Koresh? I am curious.\n\n \tTherefore since he wasn\'t a liar or a lunatic, he must have been the \n> real thing. \n\nHow does this follow? Your definition of lunatic (and "disproof" thereof seem\nrather... uhhh.. SHAKY)\n\n> \tSome other things to note. He fulfilled loads of prophecies in \n> the psalms, Isaiah and elsewhere in 24 hrs alone. This in his betrayal \n> and Crucifixion. I don\'t have my Bible with me at this moment, next time I \n> write I will use it.\n\nGood idea.\n\n> \tI don\'t think most people understand what a Christian is. It \n> is certainly not what I see a lot in churches. \n\nNaturally, those or not TRUE Christians, right? ;)\n\n> Rather I think it \n> should be a way of life, and a total sacrafice of everything for God\'s \n> sake. He loved us enough to die and save us so we should do the \n> same. Hey we can\'t do it, God himself inspires us to turn our lives \n> over to him. That\'s tuff and most people don\'t want to do it, to be a \n> real Christian would be something for the strong to persevere at. But \n> just like weight lifting or guitar playing, drums, whatever it takes \n> time. We don\'t rush it in one day, Christianity is your whole life. \n> It is not going to church once a week, or helping poor people once in \n> a while. We box everything into time units. Such as work at this \n> time, sports, Tv, social life. God is above these boxes and should be \n> carried with us into all these boxes that we have created for \n> ourselves. \t \n\n\nSomeone else handle this, I don\'t know if it\'s worth it... *sigh*\n\n\n********************************************************************************\n* Adam John Cooper\t\t"Verily, often have I laughed at the weaklings *\n*\t\t\t\t who thought themselves good simply because *\n* acooper@macalstr.edu\t\t\t\tthey had no claws."\t *\n********************************************************************************\n',
'From: jayne@mmalt.guild.org (Jayne Kulikauskas)\nSubject: quality of Catholic liturgy\nOrganization: Kulikauskas home\nLines: 34\n\njemurray@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (John E Murray) writes:\n\n> I would like the opinion of netters on a subject that has been bothering my\n> wife and me lately: liturgy, in particular, Catholic liturgy. In the last fe\n> years it seems that there are more and more ad hoc events during Mass. It\'s\n> driving me crazy! The most grace-filled aspect of a liturgical tradition is\n> that what happens is something we _all_ do together, because we all know how \n> do it. Led by the priest, of course, which makes it a kind of dialogue we \n> present to God. But the best Masses I\'ve been to were participatory prayers.\n\nOn the one hand there are advantages to having the liturgy stay the \nsame. John has described some of these. On the other hand, some people \nseem to start tuning out `the same old words\' and pay attention better \nwhen things get changed around. I think innovative priests and liturgy \ncommittees are trying to get our attention and make things more \nmeaningful for us. It drives me crazy too. \n\nDifferent people have differing preferences and needs in liturgy. My \nlocal parish is innovative. I prefer to go to Mass at the next parish \nover. Sometimes we don\'t have the option of attending a Mass in the \nstyle which best suits us. John put a smiley on it but to "just offer \nit up" probably is the solution.\n\nA related issue, that it sounds like John does not have to deal with, is \nthat spouses may have different liturgical tastes. My husband does like \ninnovative litury. It is a challenge to meet both of our spiritual \nneeds without just going our separate ways. When you include the factor \nof also trying to satisfy our children\'s needs, things get pretty \ncomplicated.\n\nOne thing to remember is that even the most uncongenial Mass is still \nMass.\n\nJayne Kulikauskas/ jayne@mmalt.guild.org\n',
'From: hudson@athena.cs.uga.edu (Paul Hudson Jr)\nSubject: Re: SATANIC TOUNGES\nOrganization: University of Georgia, Athens\nLines: 34\n\nIn article <May.6.00.34.49.1993.15418@geneva.rutgers.edu> marka@hcx1.ssd.csd.harris.com (Mark Ashley) writes:\n>I have a simple test. I take several people who can speak\n>only one language (e.g. chinese, russian, german, english).\n>Then I let the "gifted one" start "speaking in toungues".\n>The audience should understand the "gifted one" clearly\n>in their native language. However, the "gifted one" can\n>only hear himself speaking in his own language.\n\nThat would be neat, but nowhere in the Bible does it say\nthat one who has the gift of tounges can do this. If the gift\nof tounges were the ability to be understood by everyone,\nno matter what languages they know, there would be no need for the\ngift of interpretation, and I Corinthians 14 would not have had to\nhave been written. \n\n\n>Perhaps I would believe the "gifted ones" more if they were\n>glorifying God rather than themselves. Then perhaps we\'d\n>witness a real miracle.\n\nThat\'s a pretty harsh assumption to make about a several million\nChristians world wide. Sure, there are some who want glory\nfor themselves who speak in tounges, just as there are among those\nwho do not have this gift. There were people like this in the Corinthian\nchurch also. that does not mean that there is no true gift or that all\nwho speak in tounges do it for their own glory in the sight of men. \nI would venture to say that a large percentage of those who do speak in tounges \ndo so more often in private prayer than in public.\n\nLink Hudson\n\n[There were apparently those in the early church who claimed that\nat Pentecost the miracle was that the crowd were all given the\nability to understand the Apostles speaking in Greek. --clh]\n',
'From: jim.zisfein@factory.com (Jim Zisfein) \nSubject: Re: migraine and exercise\nDistribution: world\nOrganization: Invention Factory\'s BBS - New York City, NY - 212-274-8298v.32bis\nReply-To: jim.zisfein@factory.com (Jim Zisfein) \nLines: 29\n\nJL> From: jlecher@pbs.org\nJL> > I would not classify a mild headache that was continuous for weeks\nJL> > as migraine, even if the other typical features were there (e.g.,\nJL> > unilateral, nausea and vomiting, photophobia). Migraines are, by\nJL> > common agreement, episodic rather than constant.\nJL> >\nJL> Well, I\'m glad that you aren\'t my doctor, then, or I\'d still be suffering.\nJL> Remember, I was tested for any other cause, and there was nothing. I\'m\nJL> otherwise very healthy.\nJL> The nagging pain has all of the qualifications: it\'s on one side, and\nJL> frequently included my entire right side: right arm, right leg, right eye,\nJL> even the right side of my tongue hurt or tingled. Noise hurt, light hurt,\nJL> thinking hurt. When it got bad, I would lose my ability to read.\n\nThe differential diagnosis between migraine and non-migranous pain\nis not *always* important, because some therapies are effective in\nboth (e.g., tricyclic antidepressants such as amitriptyline,\nnon-steroidal anti-inflammatory drugs such as ibuprofen). Other\ntherapies may be more specific: beta-blockers such as propranolol\nwork better in migraine than tension-type headache.\n\nThe most important thing, from your perspective, is that you got\nrelief. Also, please understand that a diagnosis other than\nmigraine does not necessarily mean "psychogenic"; I suspect that\norganic factors play as large a role in tension-type headache as in\nmigraine.\n---\n . SLMR 2.1 . E-mail: jim.zisfein@factory.com (Jim Zisfein)\n \n',
'From: lmh@juliet.caltech.edu (Henling, Lawrence M.)\nSubject: Christian\'s need for Christianity (was ...)\nOrganization: California Institute of Technology\nLines: 26\n\nIn article <Apr.16.23.17.40.1993.1861@geneva.rutgers.edu<, mussack@austin.ibm.com writes...\n<< < For example: why does the universe exist at all? \n\n<Whether there is a "why" or not we have to find it. This is Pascal\'s(?) wager.\n<If there is no why and we spend our lives searching, then we have merely\n<wasted our lives, which were meaningless anyway. If there is a why and we\n..\n<Suppose the universe is 5 billion years old, and suppose it lasts another\n<5 billion years. Suppose I live to be 100. That is nothing, that is so small\n<that it is scary. So by searching for the "why" along with my friends here\n<on earth if nothing else we aren\'t so scared.\n\n I find this view of Christianity to be quite disheartening and sad.\nThe idea that life only has meaning or importance if there is a Creator\ndoes not seem like much of a basis for belief.\n\n And the logic is also appalling: "God must exist because I want Him to."\n\n I have heard this line of "reasoning" before and wonder how prevalent\nit is. Certainly in modern society many people are convinced life is\nhopeless (or so the pollsters and newscasts state), but I don\'t see\nwhere this is a good reason to become religious. If you want \'meaning\'\nwhy not just join a cult, such as in Waco? The leaders will give you\nthe security blanket you desire.\n\nlarry henling lmh@shakes.caltech.edu\n',
'From: srlnjal@grace.cri.nz\nSubject: CorelDraw BITMAP to SCODAL (2)\nOrganization: Industrial Research Ltd., New Zealand.\nLines: 22\nNNTP-Posting-Host: grv.grace.cri.nz\n\n\nYes I am aware CorelDraw exports in SCODAL.\nVersion 2 did it quite well, apart from a\nfew hassles with radial fills. Version 3 RevB\nis better but if you try to export in SCODAL\nwith a bitmap image included in the drawing\nit will say something like "cannot export\nSCODAL with bitmap"- at least it does on my\nversion.\n If anyone out there knows a way around this\nI am all ears.\n Temporal images make a product called Filmpak\nwhich converts Autocad plots to SCODAL, postscript\nto SCODAL and now GIF to SCODAL but it costs $650\nand I was just wondering if there was anything out\nthere that just did the bitmap to SCODAL part a tad\ncheaper.\n\nJeff Lyall\nInst.Geo.&.Nuc.Sci.Ltd\nLower Hutt New Zealand\n\n',
'From: geb@cs.pitt.edu (Gordon Banks)\nSubject: Re: eye dominance\nReply-To: geb@cs.pitt.edu (Gordon Banks)\nOrganization: Univ. of Pittsburgh Computer Science\nLines: 16\n\nIn article <C5E2G7.877@world.std.com> rsilver@world.std.com (Richard Silver) writes:\n>\n>Is there a right-eye dominance (eyedness?) as there is an\n>overall right-handedness in the population? I mean do most\n>people require less lens corrections for the one eye than the\n>other? If so, what kinds of percentages can be attached to this?\n\nThere is eye dominance same as handedness (and usually for the\nsame side). It has nothing to do with refractive error, however.\n\n\n-- \n----------------------------------------------------------------------------\nGordon Banks N3JXP | "Skepticism is the chastity of the intellect, and\ngeb@cadre.dsl.pitt.edu | it is shameful to surrender it too soon." \n----------------------------------------------------------------------------\n',
"From: chris@zeus.alta-oh.com (Chris Murphy)\nSubject: Re: Needed: Plotting package that does...\nNntp-Posting-Host: zeus.alta-oh.com\nOrganization: ALTA Analytics\nLines: 38\n\nIn article <FULL_GL.93Apr18005752@dolphin.pts.mot.com>, full_gl@pts.mot.com (Glen Fullmer) writes:\n|> Looking for a graphics/CAD/or-whatever package on a X-Unix box that will\n|> take a file with records like:\n|> \n|> n a b p\n|> \n|> where n = a count - integer \n|> a = entity a - string\n|> b = entity b - string\n|> p = type - string\n|> \n|> and produce a networked graph with nodes represented with boxes or circles\n|> and the vertices represented by lines and the width of the line determined by\n|> n. There would be a different line type for each type of vertice. The boxes\n|> need to be identified with the entity's name. The number of entities < 1000\n|> and vertices < 100000. It would be nice if the tool minimized line\n|> cross-overs and did a good job of layout. ;-)\n|> \n|> I have looked in the FAQ for comp.graphics and gnuplot without success. Any\n|> ideas would be appreciated?\n|> \n|> Thanks,\n|> --\n|> Glen Fullmer, glen_fullmer@pts.mot.com, (407)364-3296\n|> \n\nHi,\n See Roger Grywalski's response to :\n\nRe: Help on network visualization\n\nin comp.graphics.visualization.\n\nAmongst other things, it does exactly this!\n\n-- \nChris Murphy - chris@alta-oh.com\n(614) 792-2222 Columbus. OH.\n",
"From: tristant@syma.sussex.ac.uk (Tristan Tarrant)\nSubject: Paradise VGA\nOrganization: University of Sussex\nLines: 13\n\nI have a Paradise SVGA with 1Mb, the 90c030 chip (1D). The docs say that\nI can display the following modes : 640x480x32k colours and 800x600x32k cols\nif I have the RAMDAC HiColor Chip. I have checked the board and I do have\nsuch a chip. Now, the problem is that I can't get this mode to work !\nGraphics Workshop 6.1 claims that it can display 24 bit images dithered\ndown to 15 bit colour with my board, but it doesn't work. I have tried\nwriting some assembler code to get the modes working and I have found out\nthat each pixel is addressed by a word ( 16 bit ), but only the lower 8 bits\nare considered ( this happens in 800x600 mode, the 640x480 mode refuses to\nwork i.e. remains in text mode ).\nCould someone please help me.\n\nTristan\n",
"From: greg@cs.uct.ac.za (Gregory Torrance)\nSubject: Automatic layout of state diagrams\nOrganization: Computer Science Department, University of Cape Town\nLines: 18\n\nHi,\n\nI'm hoping someone out there will be able to help our computer science\nproject group. We are doing computer science honours, and our project\nis to do a 'graphical simulator for a finite state automata'.\n\nBasically, the program must draw a diagram of a FSA from a textual grammar,\nshowing circles for states, and labeled arc's in-between.\n\nThe problem is working out the best way to layout the states, and draw the\narc's in-between so that as few arc's as possible cross each other.\n\nIf anyone has any suggestions/algorithms/bug-free ready to compile C code :) \nthat might help us, it would be much appreciated.\n\nThanks in advance,\n\nGregory\n",
'From: slyx0@cc.usu.edu\nSubject: Re: Is MSG sensitivity superstition?\nOrganization: Utah State University\nLines: 37\n\nIn article <1993Apr15.190711.22190@walter.bellcore.com>, jchen@wind.bellcore.com (Jason Chen) writes:\n> In article <1993Apr15.135941.16105@lmpsbbs.comm.mot.com>, dougb@comm.mot.com (Doug Bank) writes:\n> \n> |> I woke up at 2 AM and puked my guts outs.\n> |> I threw up for so long that (I\'m not kidding) I pulled a muscle in\n> |> my tongue. Dry heaves and everything. No one else got sick, and I\'m\n> |> not allergic to anything that I know of. \n> \n> The funny thing is the personaly stories about reactions to MSG vary so\n> greatly. Some said that their heart beat speeded up with flush face. Some\n> claim their heart "skipped" beats once in a while. Some reacted with\n> headache, some stomach ache. Some had watery eyes or running nose, some\n> had itchy skin or rashes. More serious accusations include respiration \n> difficulty and brain damage. \n> \n> Now here is a new one: vomiting. My guess is that MSG becomes the number one\n> suspect of any problem. In this case. it might be just food poisoning. But\n> if you heard things about MSG, you may think it must be it.\n\nSurprise surprise, different people react differently to different things. One\nslightly off the subject case in point. My brother got stung by a bee. I know\nhe is allergic to bee stings, but that his reaction is severe localized\nswelling, not anaphylactic shock. I could not convince the doctors of that,\nhowever, because that\'s not written in their little rule book.\n\nI would not be surprised in the least to find out the SOME people have bad\nreactions to MSG, including headaches, stomachaches and even vomiting. Not that\nthe stuff is BAD or POISON and needs to be banned, but people need to be aware\nthat it can have a bad effect on SOME people.\n\nLone Wolf\n\n Happy are they who dream dreams,\nEd Philips And pay the price to see them come true.\nslyx0@cc.usu.edu \n -unknown\n \n',
"From: lm001@rrz.Uni-Koeln.DE (Erwin H. Keeve)\nSubject: Marchin Cubes\nOrganization: Regional Computing Center, University of Cologne\nLines: 27\nDistribution: world\nNNTP-Posting-Host: rs1.rrz.uni-koeln.de\nKeywords: Polygon Reduction\n\n\n\nHi there,\n\nis there anybody who know a polygon_reduction algorithm for\nmarching cube surfaces. e.g. the algirithm of Schroeder,\nSiggraph'92.\n\nFor any hints, hugs and kisses.\n\n- Erwin\n\n ,,,\n (o o)\n ___________________________________________oOO__(-)__OOo_____________\n|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|_|\n|_|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|\n| | |\n| Erwin Keeve | adress: Peter-Welter-Platz 2 |\n| | W-5000 Cologne 1, Germany |\n| | |\n| Dept. of Computergraphics & | phone: +49-221-20189-132 (-192) |\n| Computeranimation | FAX: +49-221-20189-17 |\n| | |\n| Academy of Media Arts Cologne | Email: keeve@khm.uni-koeln.de |\n|_______________________________|_____________________________________|\n\n",
'From: keith@cco.caltech.edu (Keith Allan Schneider)\nSubject: Re: Keith Schneider - Stealth Poster?\nOrganization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena\nLines: 26\nNNTP-Posting-Host: lloyd.caltech.edu\n\ncmtan@iss.nus.sg (Tan Chade Meng - dan) writes:\n\n>I somewhat agree with u. However, what it comes to (theist) religion, \n>it\'s a different matter. That\'s because religion is like a drug, once u\n>use it, it\'s very difficult to get out of it. That\'s because in\n>order to experience a religion, u necessarily have to have blind faith,\n>and once u have the blind faith, it\'s very diffcult for you to reason\n>yourself back to atheism again.\n>Therefore, it\'s unreasonable to ask people to try religion in order to\n>judge it. It\'s like asking people to "try dying to find out what\n>death is like".\n\nWell now, we can\'t judge death until we are dead right? So, why should\nwe judge religion without having experienced it? People have said that\nreligion is bad by any account, and that it is in no way useful, etc.,\nbut I don\'t totally agree with this. Of course, we cannot really say\nhow the religious folk would act had they not been exposed to religion,\nbut some people at least seemed to be helped in some ways by it.\n\nSo basically, we can not judge whether religion is the right route for\na given individual, or even for a general population. We can say that\nit is not best for us personally (at least, you can choose not to use\nreligion--might be hard to try to find out its benefits, as you state\nabove).\n\nkeith\n',
"From: Simon.N.McRae@dartmouth.edu (Simon N McRae)\nSubject: re: hepatitis-b\nX-Posted-From: InterNews1.0b10@newshost.dartmouth.edu\nOrganization: Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH\nLines: 38\n\nIn article <1993Apr14.4274.32512@dosgate>\nrussell.sinclair-day@canrem.com (russell sinclair-day) writes:\n\n> What we are really worried about is not knowing the facts. The doctor \n> has stated that things will not be good if she is a carrier and avoids \n> further questions on the subject. We really would like to know so we \n> can take steps and plan in advance for any eventualities.\n> \n> Thank-you for your very informative post. Right now I am just trying \n> to find out everything that I can.\n> \n> Russ.\n\nUnfortunately, Hep B infection can eventuate in chronic hepatitis and\nsubsequent cirrhosis. Although not many patients with Hep B go on to\nchronic hepatitis, it does still occur in a good number (20%?) and is\nsomething to keep in mind. Hepatitis C (was: non-A, non-B Hep) much\nmore frequently leads to chronic hep and cirrhosis. There is also an\nautimmune chronic hepatitis that affects mostly younger women which\nalso leads to cirrhosis. \n\nOf course, cirrhosis is a most unkind disease. The most dangerous\neffects relate to portal hypertension and loss of liver function. \nPatients develop life-threatening variceal bleeds and hepatic comas,\namong many other problems, as a result of disturbances in hepatic\ncirculation. Less ominously, they can exhibit the effects of\nhyperestrogenemia which often characterize patients with cirrhosis. \nThese effects include telangiactasias (small red skin lesions) and, in\nmen, gynecomastia (breast development). The only real treatment for\ncirrhosis is liver transplant.\n\nKeep in mind that cirrhosis is not expected, at least statistically, in\nyour friend's case. Nevertheless you might want to bring up the\nsubject of chronic disease and cirrhosis with the doctor. Hopefully he\nor she can then carefully explain these sequelae of Hep B infection to\nyou, and offer you support.\n\nSimon. \n",
'From: REXLEX@fnal.fnal.gov\nSubject: Assurance of Hell\nOrganization: FNAL/AD/Net\nLines: 139\n\nI dreamed that the great judgment morning had dawned,\n and the trumpet had blown.\nI dreamed that the sinners had gathered for judgment\n before the white throne.\nOh what weeping and wailing as the lost were told of their fate.\nThey cried for the rock and the mountains.\nThey prayed, but their prayers were too late.\nThe soul that had put off salvation, \n"Not tonight I\'ll get saved by and by.\n No time now to think of ....... religion," \nAlas, he had found time to die.\nAnd I saw a Great White Throne.\n\nNow, some have protest by saying that the fear of hell is not good for\nmotivation, yet Jesus thought it was. Paul thought it was. Paul said, \n"Knowing therefore, the terror of the Lord, we persuade men."\n\nToday, too much of our evangelism is nothing but soft soap and some of\nit is nothing but evangelical salesmanship. We don\'t tell people anymore, that\nthere\'s such a thing as sin or that there\'s such a place as hell. \n\nAs Jayne has said, this doesn\'t mean we have to come on so strong so as to hit\npeople over the head with a baseball bat. Yet the fact remains, there is a\nplace called hell. A place so fearful that God died to save us from having to\nexperience it. Whatever you or I, as Christians, do, we should do whatever we\ncan to win people to the Lord, if for no other reason, to keep them from going\nto "outer darkness.". \n\nJesus, in Mt. 25, tells us that He didn\'t prepare hell for people. He prepared\nit for the Devil and his angels. No where in the Bible do I read -anywhere,\nthat God predestined anybody to go to hell. D.L. Moody use to say that the\nelect are the "whosoever will" and the nonelect are the "whosoever wont\'s." \nWhether or not that\'s theologically sound, I couldn\'t defend, but its\npractical. Jesus said to the people of Israel, "Ye would not." \n\nNow, some of you may not be students of the Bible, heck -some of you may not be\nChristians. Have you ever said to somebody, "I don\'t believe in hell. I\nbelieve in the religion of Jesus." But did you know that Jesus talked more\nabout hell than He did about heaven! "Oh I believe in the religion of the\nsermon on the mount." You find hell taught by Jesus in the sermon on the\nmount. You\'ll read that Jesus talked about the tree being cast into the fire. \nSeveral times he talks about hell and about judgment. In fact, over and over\nin the synoptics, Matthew, Mark and Luke, Jesus talks about hell. Not Isaiah. \nNot Moses. Not John the Baptist, though he did, but Jesus, the Son of God. \nThe great Beloved One preached about hell because He loved people and didn\'t\nwant to see them go there.\n\nNow, if there is no hell then Jesus preached in vain. It was our Lord Jesus,\nnot some angry Baptist preacher, that said, "where the worm never dies, and\nwhere the fire never goes out." Jesus said that. It was Jesus who called hell\na "furnace of fire." It was Jesus that used the word, "condemnation." "And\nthis is the condemnation, that men love darkness rather than light because\ntheir deeds are evil. Jesus said that. \n\nHow can we get it across to you that a loving, dying Jesus preached about hell?\n Not only that, but He went through hell. That\'s what Calgary was all about. \nWhen my Lord was on the cross, darkness fell. He called hell, "outer\ndarkness." \n\nDo you have this idea that hell is a place where the gamblers are gambling over\nhere, the drunks are getting drunk over there, and the prostitutes are\nprostituting their bodies over there? That\'s not what hell is. Hell\'s not a\nparty. There\'s no fellowship there. He called it "outer darkness." "Outer"\n-away from God. "Darkness" -God is light. \n\nNo when He was on the cross, He was made sin for you and for me. God treated\nJesus the way sinners have to be treated. That\'s is a sobering thought. As my\nson would say, an "awesome" thought. \n\n"My God, My God why hast Thou forsaken me?" Hell is isolation. There\'s no\nfellowship in hell. There\'s no friendship in hell. There\'s no loving embrace\nin hell. There\'s no hand shake in hell. There\'s no word of encouragement in\nhell. \n\n"I thirst." It goes much deeper than physical thirst. Hell is eternal craving\nwith no satisfaction. The man whose life was lived for drugs, will crave it\neternally. The man whose life was lived for the lust of a woman\'s body, will\ncrave it eternally -and not be satisfied. One theologian has put it this way\nand I think it deserves merit. What is hell? Hell is just the kind of\nenvironment that matches the internal condition of the lost. \n\nIn a recent post, I was trying to remember the founder of The Word of Life\nministries. I\'ve remembered his name, Jack Wertzen, and found that the\nillustration that I gave wasn\'t his. His illustration was that he was talking\nto his barber and his barber\'s wife and daughter had just recently been saved\nand he was commenting about it to Jack. "They sing these songs and read Bible\nverses, and their praising this and that -I can\'t stand it! Jack, do you think\nGod would send me to hell?" Jack answered by saying, "Yes I think he would!" \nOf course the barber said, "What do you mean by that." "Well if you can\'t\nstand living at home with your wife and daughter who sing hymns and praises to\nGod now, what would you do in heaven where they\'ll do it for eternity? You\'d\nbe miserable. Because God loves you, He\'d put you where it would match what\nyou really are." It makes a man think.\n\nThe crucifixion of Jesus Christ is a fact that necessitates the eternal\nexistence of hell because on the cross He performed an eternal act. Don\'t ask\nme how, I don\'t know. But He is God and He is the infinite/eternal and when He\ndied, He died an infinite/eternal death. It is by that eternal act that He\npurchased eternal life for the "whosoever wills." He suffered eternal\njudgment. \n\nA lot of people would like to detour around hell by saying "Everybody is going\nto be saved eventually." -universalism. My Bible says no, He\'ll separate\nthem. The sheep from the goats. ".After you die there\'s a probationary period\nin which God prepares you for heaven." No, my Bible says that "It is appointed\nunto men once to die and then comes judgment." Some of the cultist believe in\nannihilation. After you die, sssswish. Just like a mosquito you\'re squished\nout. No, in Rev we are told that their is eternal existence in hell just as\nthere is in heaven. \n\nI don\'t enjoy making these kind of statements and maybe you don\'t enjoy\nlistening to them, but we have to preach the entire Word of God. -There is a\nplace called hell. If I could give one verse of Scripture that could give any\nhope that people aren\'t going there, I\'d give it to you, but I haven\'t found\nit. That fact that there is a place called hell, the fact that our God is a\nGod of holiness and must judge sin, the fact that He has made us the kind of\ncreatures we are and therefore we\'re responsible, the fact that He has placed\nus in a "uni"verse that has purpose and design behind it, the fact that sin is\nsuch an awful thing and the fact that God Himself went through hell to save us\nfrom hell leads us to two applications.\n\n1) As I\'ve already mentioned. If you are a Christian, you must worn others. \nIts not good enough to stop and fix their flat tire and not tell them that just\naround the bend the bridge is out. "Knowing therefore the terror of Lord, we\npersuade men."\n\n2) If you haven\'t accepted Jesus are your Savior, you\'re taking an awful\nchance. As I say to the Jehovah Witnesses (who no longer frequent my door), if\nyou are right and I am wrong, then I will have lived a good life and will die\nand cease to exist, but if I am right and you are wrong, then you will die and\nsuffer eternal damnation. I don\'t mean to make fun at this point, but its like\nDirty Harry said, "You\'ve got to ask yourself, \'Do I feel lucky?\' Well do\nyou?" "A man\'s got to know his limitations." Don\'t be one of the "whosoever\nwont\'s." \n\n"Because while I was yet a sinner, He died for me."\n"There\'s no greater love than this, that a man lay down his life for another."\n--Rex\n \n',
'From: jaeger@buphy.bu.edu (Gregg Jaeger)\nSubject: Re: The Inimitable Rushdie\nOrganization: Boston University Physics Department\nLines: 17\n\nIn article <16BB112525.I3150101@dbstu1.rz.tu-bs.de> I3150101@dbstu1.rz.tu-bs.de (Benedikt Rosenau) writes:\n \n>I assume that you say here a religious law is for the followers of the\n>religion. That begs the question why the religion has the right to define\n>who is a follower even when the offenders disagree.\n\nNo, I say religious law applies to those who are categorized as\nbelonging to the religion when event being judged applies. This\nprevents situations in which someone is a member of a religion\nwho, when charged, claims that he/she was _not_ a member of the\nreligion so they are free to go on as if nothing had happened.\n\n\n\nGregg\n\n\n',
'From: wright@duca.hi.com (David Wright)\nSubject: Re: Name of MD\'s eyepiece?\nOrganization: Hitachi Computer Products, OSSD division\nLines: 21\nNNTP-Posting-Host: duca.hi.com\n\nIn article <19387@pitt.UUCP> geb@cs.pitt.edu (Gordon Banks) writes:\n>In article <C4IHM2.Gs9@watson.ibm.com> clarke@watson.ibm.com (Ed Clarke) writes:\n>>|> |It\'s not an eyepiece. It is called a head mirror. All doctors never\n>>\n>>A speculum?\n>\n>The speculum is the little cone that fits on the end of the otoscope.\n>There are also vaginal specula that females and gynecologists are\n>all too familiar with.\n\nIn fairness, we should note that if you look up "speculum" in the\ndictionary (which I did when this question first surfaced), the first\ndefinition is "a mirror or polished metal plate used as a reflector in\noptical instruments."\n\nWhich doesn\'t mean the name fits in this context, but it\'s not as far\noff as you might think.\n\n -- David Wright, Hitachi Computer Products (America), Inc. Waltham, MA\n wright@hicomb.hi.com :: These are my opinions, not necessarily \n Hitachi\'s, though they are the opinions of all right-thinking people\n',
'From: rind@enterprise.bih.harvard.edu (David Rind)\nSubject: Re: Good Grief! (was Re: Candida Albicans: what is it?)\nOrganization: Beth Israel Hospital, Harvard Medical School, Boston Mass., USA\nLines: 40\nNNTP-Posting-Host: enterprise.bih.harvard.edu\n\nIn article <noringC5snsx.KMo@netcom.com> noring@netcom.com (Jon Noring) writes:\n>In article rind@enterprise.bih.harvard.edu (David Rind) writes:\n>>There is no convincing evidence that such a disease exists.\n\n>There\'s a lot of evidence, it just hasn\'t been adequately gathered and\n>published in a way that will convince the die-hard melancholic skeptics\n>who quiver everytime the word \'anecdote\' or \'empirical\' is used.\n\nNo, there\'s no evidence that would convince any but the most credulous.\n\nThe "evidence" is identical to the sort of evidence that has been\nused to justify all sorts of quack treatments for quack diseases\nin the past.\n\n>medicine on the right road. But methinks that some who hold too firmly\n>to the party line are academics who haven\'t been in the trenches long enough\n>actually treating patients.\n\nI like the implication here. It must not be that the quacks making\nmillions off such "diseases" are biased -- rather that those who\ndoubt their existence don\'t understand the real world. It seems\neasy to picture a 19th centure snake oil salesman saying the same\nthing.\n\nHowever, I have been in the trenches long enough to have seen multiple\nquack diseases rise and fall in popularity. "Systemic yeast syndome"\nseems to be making a resurgence (it had fallen off a few years ago).\nThere will be new such "diseases" I\'m sure with best-selling books\nand expensive therapies.\n\n>If anybody, doctors included, said to me to my\n>face that there is no evidence of the \'yeast connection\', I cannot guarantee\n>their safety. For their incompetence, ripping off their lips is justified as\n>far as I am concerned.\n\nWell this, of course, is convincing. I guess I\'d better start diagnosing\nany illnesses that people want so that I can keep my lips.\n-- \nDavid Rind\nrind@enterprise.bih.harvard.edu\n',
'From: gideon@otago.ac.nz (Gideon King)\nSubject: Should Christians fight? / Justifiable war\nOrganization: University of Otago\nLines: 144\n\nI posted this a couple of weeks ago, and it doesn\'t seem to have appeared \non the newsgroup, and I haven\'t had a reply from the moderator. We were \nhaving intermittent problems with our mail at the time. Please excuse me \nif you have seen this before...\n\nShould Christians fight?\n\nLast week Alastair posted some questions about fighting, and whether there \nare such things as "justifiable wars". I have started looking into these \nthings and have jotted down my findings as I go. I haven\'t answered all \nhis questions yet, and I know what I have here is on a slightly different \ntack, but possibly I\'ll be able to get into it more deeply later, and post \nsome more info soon.\n\nOur duty to our neighbour:\n\nDo good to all men (Gal 6:10)\nLove our neighbour as ourselves (Matt 22:39)\n\nAct the part of the good Samaritan (Luke 10) toward any who may be in \ntrouble. We will therefore render every possible assistance to an injured \nman, and therefore should not be part of any organisation which causes \npeople harm (even medical corps of the army etc).\n\nChristians are by faith "citizens of the commonwealth of Israel" \n(Ephesians 2:11-12), and also recognise that "God rules in the kingdoms of \nmen", and therefore we should not be taking part in any of the struggles \nof those nations which we are not part of due to our faith.\n\nWe are to be "strangers and pilgrims" amongst the nations, so we are just \npassing through, and not part of any nation or any national aspirations \n(this can also be applied to politics etc, but that\'s another story). We \nare not supposed to "strive" or "resist evil" (even "suffer yourselves to \nbe defrauded") it is therefore incosistent for us to strive to assist in \npreserving a state which Christ will destroy when he returns to set up \nGod\'s kingdom.\n\nOur duty to the state.\n\n"Render therefore unto Caesar the things which be Caesar\'s and unto God \nthe things which be God\'s" (Luke 20:25).\n"Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power \nbut of God; the powers that be are ordained of God. Whosoever resisteth \nthe power, resisteth the ordinance of God" (Rom 13:1-2).\n"Submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord\'s sake; whether \nit be to king as supreme... for so is the will of God that with well doing \nye may put to silence the ignorance of foolish men" (1 Pet 2:13-15)\n\nThese scriptures make it clear that submission to the powers that be is a \ndivine command, but it is equally clear from Acts 5:19-29 that when any \nordinance of man runs counter to God\'s law, we must refuse submission to \nit. The reason for this is that we are God\'s "bond servants" and His \nservice is our life\'s task. An example of the type of thing is in Col \n3:22-23 where bondservants were to "work heartily as unto the Lord" - so \nalso we should work as if our boss was God - i.e. "Pressed down, shaken \ntogether, and running over"... oops - a bit of a side track there...\n\nIn the contests between the nations, we are on God\'s side - a side that is \nnot fighting in the battle, but is "testifying" to the truth.\n\nWhen we believe in God and embrace His promises, we become "fellow \ncitizens with the Saints and of the Household of God", and are no longer \ninterested in associations of the world. Think of this in relation to \nunions etc as well. Paul tells us to "lay aside every weight" that we may \nrun "the race that is set before us", and if we are wise, we will discard \nany association which would retard our progress - "Thou therefore endure \nhardness as a good soldier of Jesus Christ. No man that warreth entangleth \nhimself with the affairs of this life, that he may please him who hath \nchosen him to be a soldier" (2 Tim 2:3-4).\n\nOne of these entanglements he warns about is "be ye not unequally yoked \ntogether with unbelievers". One of the obvious applications of this is \nmarriage with unbelievers, but it also covers things like business \npartnerships and any other position where we may form a close association \nwith any person or persons not believing the truth about God (in this case \nthe army). The principle comes from Deut 22:10 - remember that as well as \nthem being different animals of different strengths, one was clean and one \nunclean under the law. These ideas are strongly stressed in 2 Cor 6:13-18 \n- I suggest you read this. The yoking also has another aspect - that of \nservitude, and Jesus says "take my yoke upon you", so we are then yoked \nwith Christ and cannot be yoked with unbelievers. We have already seen \nthat we are bondservants of Christ, and Paul says "become not ye the \nbondservants of men (1 Cor 7:23 RV).\n\nAn example from the Old Testament: the question is asked in 2 Chr 19:2 \n"Shouldest thou help the ungodly...?". The situation here is a good \nexample of what happens when you are yoked together with unbelievers. \nJehoshaphat was lucky to escape with his life. Here are the facts:\n1. He had made an affinity with Ahab, who had "sold himself to work \nwickedness before the Lord" (1 Kings 21:25).\n2. When asked by Ahab to form a military alliance, he had agreed and said \n"I am as thou art, my people as thy people" (1 Kings 22:4) - an unequal \nyoking.\n3. He sttod firm in refusing the advice of the false prophets and insisted \non hearing the prophet of the Lord (trying to do the right thing), he \nfound that he was yoked and therefore couldn\'t break away from the evil \nassociation he had made.\n\nGod says to us "Come out from among them and be ye separate, and touch not \nthe unclean thing, and I will receive you and ye shall be my sons and \ndaughters" (2 Cor 6:17).\n\nThis is more or less what I have found out so far - I\'m still looking into \nit, as I don\'t think I\'ve answered all the questions raised by Alastair \nyet. Heres a summary and a few things to think about:\n\nThe Christian in under command. Obedience to this command is an essential \nfactor in his relationship with Christ (John 15:10,14).\n\nTotal dedication to this course of action is required (Romans 12:1-2).\n\nDisobedience compromises the close relationship between Christ and his \nfollowers (1 Pet 2:7-8).\n\nWe are to be separated to God (Rom 6:4). This involves a master-servant \nrelationship (Rom 6:12,16).\n\nNo man can serve two masters (Matt 6:24,13,14).\n\nAll that is in the \'Kosmos\' is lust and pride - quite opposed to Gos (1 \nJohn 2:16). Christs kingdom is not of this world (i.e. not worldly in \nnature) - if it was, his servants would fight to deliver him. If Christ is \nour master and he was not delivered by his servants because his kingdom \nwas not of this world, then his servants cannot possibly fight for another \nmaster.\n\nStrangers and pilgrims have no rights, and we cannot swear allegiance to \nanyone but God.\n\nThe servant of the Lord must not war but be gentle to all (2 Tim 2:24) - \nthis does not just apply to war, but also to avoiding strife throughout \nour lives. There is a war to be waged, not with man\'s weapons (2 Cor \n10:3-4), but with God\'s armour (Eph6:13-20).\n\nI\'ll probably post some more when I\'ve had time to look into things a bit \nfurther.\n\n--\nGideon King | Phone +64-3-479 8347\nUniversity of Otago | Fax +64-3-479 8529\nDepartment of Computer Science | e-mail gideon@farli.otago.ac.nz\nP.O. Box 56 |\nDunedin | NeXT mail preferred!\nNew Zealand | \n',
'Subject: Re: Concerning God\'s Morality (long)\nFrom: J5J@psuvm.psu.edu (John A. Johnson)\n <1993Apr3.095220.24632@leland.Stanford.EDU><1993Apr5.084042.822@batman.bmd.trw.com>\nOrganization: Penn State University\nLines: 48\n\nIn article <1993Apr5.084042.822@batman.bmd.trw.com>, jbrown@batman.bmd.trw.com\nresponds to a lot of grief given to him\n>In article <1993Apr3.095220.24632@leland.Stanford.EDU>,\n>galahad@leland.Stanford.EDU (Scott Compton)\na.k.a. "The Sagemaster"\n[ . . .]\n>But then I ask, So? Where is this relevant to my discussion in\n>answering John\'s question of why? Why are there genetic diseases,\n>and why are there so many bacterial and viral diseases which require\n>babies to develop antibodies. Is it God\'s fault? (the original\n>question) -- I say no, it is not.\n\nMost of Scotty\'s followup *was* irrelevant to the original question,\nbut this is not unusual, as threads often quickly evolve away from\nthe original topic. What I could not understand is why Jim spent so\nmuch time responding to what he regarded as irrelevancies.\n\n[ . . . ]\n>> May I ask, where is this \'collective\' bullcrap coming from?\n[ . . . ]\n>\n>By "collective" I was referring to the idea that God works with\n>humanity on two levels, individually and collectively. If mankind\n>as a whole decides to undertake a certain action (the majority of\n>mankind),\n\nWell, I guess hypothetical Adam was "the majority of mankind"\nseeing how he was the ONLY man at the time.\n\n>then God will allow the consequences of that action to\n>affect mankind as a whole. If you didn\'t understand that, then I\n>apologize for not using one and two syllable words in my discussion.\n\nI understand what you mean by "collective," but I think it is an\ninsane perversion of justice. What sort of judge would punish the\ndescendants for a crime committed by their ancestor?\n\n>If you want to be sure that I read your post and to provide a\n>response, send a copy to Jim_Brown@oz.bmd.trw.com. I can\'t read\n>a.a. every day, and some posts slip by. Thanks.\n\nWell, I must admit that you probably read a.a. more often than I read\nthe Bible these days. But you missed a couple of good followups to\nyour post. I\'m sending you a personal copy of my followup which I\nhope you will respond to publically in a.a.\n\nJohn\nThe Sageless\n',
'Subject: Re: Gospel Dating\nFrom: p00261@psilink.com (Robert Knowles)\nOrganization: Kupajava, East of Krakatoa\nIn-Reply-To: <1993Apr5.163050.13308@wam.umd.edu>\nNntp-Posting-Host: 127.0.0.1\nX-Mailer: PSILink-DOS (3.3)\nLines: 22\n\n>DATE: Mon, 5 Apr 1993 16:30:50 GMT\n>FROM: Stilgar <west@next02cville.wam.umd.edu>\n>\n>In article <kmr4.1422.733983061@po.CWRU.edu> kmr4@po.CWRU.edu (Keith M. \n>Ryan) writes:\n>> In article <1993Apr5.025924.11361@wam.umd.edu> \n>west@next02cville.wam.umd.edu (Stilgar) writes:\n>> \n>> >THE ILLIAD IS THE UNDISPUTED WORD OF GOD(tm) *prove me wrong*\n>> \n>> \tI dispute it.\n>> \n>> \tErgo: by counter-example: you are proven wrong.\n>\n>\tI dispute your counter-example\n>\n>\tErgo: by counter-counter-example: you are wrong and\n>\tI am right so nanny-nanny-boo-boo TBBBBBBBTTTTTTHHHHH\n>\t\t\t8^p\n>\n\nThis looks like a serious case of temporary Islam. \n',
'From: marco@sdf.lonestar.org (Steve Giammarco)\nSubject: Re: Is MSG sensitivity superstition?\nOrganization: sdf public access Unix, Dallas TX 214/436-3281\nLines: 27\n\nIn article <1qk1taINNmr4@calamari.hi.com> rogers@calamari.hi.com (Andrew Rogers) writes:\n>In article <1993Apr15.153729.13738@walter.bellcore.com> jchen@ctt.bellcore.com writes:\n>>Chinese, and many other Asians (Japanese, Koreans, etc) have used\n>>MSG as flavor enhancer for two thousand years. Do you believe that\n>>they knew how to make MSG from chemical processes? Not. They just\n>>extracted it from natural food such sea food and meat broth.\n>\n>And to add further fuel to the flame war, I read about 20 years ago that\n>the "natural" MSG - extracted from the sources you mention above - does not\n>cause the reported aftereffects; it\'s only that nasty "artificial" MSG -\n>extracted from coal tar or whatever - that causes Chinese Restaurant\n>Syndrome. I find this pretty hard to believe; has anyone else heard it?\n\nI was under the (possibly incorrect) assumption that most of the MSG on\nour foods was made from processing sugar beets. Is this not true? Are \nthere other sources of MSG?\n\nI am one of those folx who react, sometimes strongly, to MSG. However,\nI also react strongly to sodium chloride (table salt) in excess. Each\ncauses different symptoms except for the common one of rapid heartbeat\nand an uncomfortable feeling of pressure in my chest, upper left quadrant.\n\n\n-- \nSteve Giammarco/5330 Peterson Lane/Dallas TX 75240\nmarco@sdf.lonestar.org\nloveyameanit.\n',
"From: jerryb@eskimo.com (Jerry Kaufman)\nSubject: Re: prayers and advice requested on family problem\nOrganization: -> ESKIMO NORTH (206) For-Ever <-\nLines: 11\n\nCloak yourself in God's sustaining and abiding love. Pray, pray, pray.\nPray for your brother, that he will assume the Godly role that is his.\nPray for your sister-in-law, the what ever is driving her to separate\nyour brother and herself from the the rest of the family will be healed.\nPray for God to give you the peace in the knowledge that you may not be\nable to 'fix' it. From your description it would appear that it will\nrequire devine intervention, and the realization by your brother as to\nwhat his responsibilities are. Seek Godly counsel from your pastor, or\nother spiritually mature believer. Know always that He is akways there\nas a conforter, and will give you wisdon and direction as you call on\nHim.\n",
"From: smithmc@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Lost Boy)\nSubject: Re: Can men get yeast infections?\nOrganization: Purdue University Computing Center\nDistribution: na\nLines: 25\n\nIn article <noringC5Fnx2.2v2@netcom.com> noring@netcom.com (Jon Noring) writes:\n>In article Tammy.Vandenboom@launchpad.unc.edu (Tammy Vandenboom) writes:\n>\n>>Here's a potentially stupid question to possibly the wrong news group, but. .\n>>\n>>Can men get yeast infections? Spread them? What kind of symptoms?\n>>Similar as women's? I have a yeast infection and my husband (who is a\n>>natural paranoid on a good day) is sure he's gonna catch it and keeps\n>>asking me what it's like. I'm not sure what his symptoms would be. . \n>\n>The answer is yes and no. I'm sure others on sci.med can expand on this.\n>\n>Jon\n\nI know from personal experience that men CAN get yeast infections. I \nget rather nasty ones from time to time, mostly in the area of the\nscrotum and the base of the penis. They're nowhere near as dangerous\nfor me as for many women, but goddamn does it hurt in the summertime!\nEven in the wintertime, when I sweat I get really uncomfy down there. The\nbest thing I can do to keep it under control is keep my weight down and\nkeep cool down there. Shorts in 60 degree weather, that kind of thing. And\nof course some occasional sun. \n\nLost Boy\n\n",
'Nntp-Posting-Host: bones.et.byu.edu\nLines: 6\nSubject: PD 3D Viewer wanted\nSummary: 3D\nExpires: May 20, 1993\nOrganization: Brigham Young University, Provo UT USA\nFrom: qiaok@bones.et.byu.edu (Kun Qiao)\n\nI am looking for a public domain 3d viewer. It does not have to be very\nfancy. The features I want is simple wireframe display, flat shading, \nsimple transformation. It would be nice to have hidden line. \n\nAny information is appreciated.\n\n',
'From: doyle+@pitt.edu (Howard R Doyle)\nSubject: Re: Broken rib\nKeywords: advice needed\nOrganization: Pittsburgh Transplant Institute\nLines: 28\n\nIn article <D0ZB3B1w164w@oneb.almanac.bc.ca> jc@oneb.almanac.bc.ca writes:\n>\n\n>fell about 3 weeks ago down into the hold of the boat and broke or\n>cracked a rib and wrenched and bruised my back and left arm.\n> My question, I have been to a doctor and was told that it was \n>best to do nothing and it would heal up with no long term effect, and \n>indeed I am about 60 % better, however, the work I do is very \n>hard and I am still not able to go back to work. The thing that worries me\n>is the movement or "clunking" I feel and hear back there when I move \n>certain ways... I heard some one talking about the rib they broke \n>years ago and that it still bothers them.. any opinions?\n\n\n\nYour doctor is right. It is best to do nothing, besides taking some pain\nmedication initially. Some patients don\'t like this and expect, or demand,\nto have something done. In these cases some physicians will "tape" the \npatient (put a lot of heavy adhesive tape around the chest), or prescribe\nan elastic binder. All this does is make it harder to breath, but the\npatient doesn\'t feel cheated, because soemthing is being done about the\nproblem. Either way, the end results are the same.\n\n==================================\n\nHoward Doyle\ndoyle+@pitt.edu\n\n',
"From: osprey@ux4.cso.uiuc.edu (Lucas Adamski)\nSubject: Fast polygon routine needed\nKeywords: polygon, needed\nOrganization: University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign\nLines: 6\n\nThis may be a fairly routine request on here, but I'm looking for a fast\npolygon routine to be used in a 3D game. I have one that works right now, but\nits very slow. Could anyone point me to one, pref in ASM that is fairly well\ndocumented and flexible?\n\tThanx,\n //Lucas.\n",
'From: poram%mlsma@att.att.com\nSubject: WBT (WAS: Re: phone number of wycliffe translators UK)\nOrganization: AT&T\nLines: 36\n\nIn article <Apr.17.01.11.19.1993.2268@geneva.rutgers.edu> mprc@troi.cc.rochester.edu (M. Price) writes:\n>\n> I\'m concerned about a recent posting about WBT/SIL. I thought they\'d\n>pretty much been denounced as a right-wing organization involved in\n>ideological manipulation and cultural interference, including Vietnam\n>and South America. A commission from Mexican Academia denounced them in\n>1979 as " a covert political and ideological institution used by the\n>U.S. govt as an instrument of control, regulation, penetration, espionage and\n>repression."\n\nHaving met Peter Kingston (of WBT) some years back, he struck me \nas an exemplery and dedicated Christian whose main concern was with\ntranslation of the Word of God and the welfare of the people\ngroup he was serving.\nWBT literature is concerned mainly with providing Scripture\nin minority languages.\n\nThe sort of criticism leveled at an organisation such as this\nalong the lines of "ideological manipulation and cultural\ninterference" is probably no more than Christianising and\neducation - in this WBT will stand alongside the early Christian\nmissionaries to parts of Africa, or those groups who worked\namong native Americans a couple hundred years ago.\n\n> My concern is that this group may be seen as acceptable and even\n>praiseworthy by readers of soc.religion.christian. It\'s important that\n>Christians don\'t immediately accept every "Christian" organization as\n>automatically above reproach.\n>\n> mp\nI think you need to substantiate these attacks as being a\nlegitimate criticism of priorities other than spreading the\ngospel among underdeveloped people.\n\nBarney Resson\n"Many shall run to and fro, & knowledge shall increase" (Daniel)\n',
'From: doyle+@pitt.edu (Howard R Doyle)\nSubject: Re: Donating organs\nArticle-I.D.: blue.8016\nOrganization: Pittsburgh Transplant Institute\nLines: 31\n\nIn article <19393@pitt.UUCP> geb@cs.pitt.edu (Gordon Banks) writes:\n>In article <1993Mar25.161109.13101@sbcs.sunysb.edu> mhollowa@ic.sunysb.edu (Michael Holloway) writes:\n>\n>>there been anything recent in "Transplant Proceedings" or somesuch, on \n>>xenografts? How about liver section transplants from living donors? \n>>\n>\n>I\'m sure the Pittsburgh group has published the baboon work, but I\n>don\'t know where. In Chicago they were doing lobe transplants from\n>living donors, and I\'m sure they\'ve published. \n\n\n\nThe case report of the first xenotransplant was published in Lancet 1993; 341:65-71.\nI can send you a reprint if you are interested.\nThere was another paper, sort of a tour of the horizon, written by Starzl and\npublished in the Resident\'s Edition of the Annals of Surgery (vol 216, October 1992).\nIt\'s in the Surgical Resident\'s Newsletter section, so you won\'t find it in the regular\nissue of the Annals. I don\'t have any reprints of that one.\nA paper has been accepted for publication by Immunology Today, though I\'m not sure\nwhen it\'s coming out, describing our experience with the two xenografts done to date.\n\n\nAs for segmental liver transplants from living related donors I must confess to a total\nignorance of that literature. We are philosophically opposed to those, and I don\'t keep \nup with that particular field.\n\n=====================================================\n\nHoward Doyle\ndoyle+@pitt.edu\n',
'From: pvconway@cudnvr.denver.colorado.edu\nSubject: TIN files & coutours\nLines: 15\n\n\nHi!\n\tI am working on a project that needs to create contour lines\nfrom random data points. The work that I have done so far tells me that I\nneed to look into Triangulated Irregular Networks (TIN), the Delauney\ncriiterion, and the Krige method. Does anyone have any suggestions for\nreferences, programs and hopefully source code for creating contours. Any\nhelp with this or any surface modeling would be greatly appreciated.\nI can be reached at the addresses below:\n\n\n\t\t\t-- Paul Conway\n\nPVCONWAY@COPPER.DENVER.COLORADO.EDU\nPVCONWAY@CUDNVR.DENVER.COLORADO.EDU\n',
'From: rind@enterprise.bih.harvard.edu (David Rind)\nSubject: Re: centrifuge\nOrganization: Beth Israel Hospital, Harvard Medical School, Boston Mass., USA\nLines: 18\nDistribution: usa\nNNTP-Posting-Host: enterprise.bih.harvard.edu\n\nIn article <C5JsM5.Hrs@lznj.lincroftnj.ncr.com> rjf@lzsc.lincroftnj.ncr.com\n (51351[efw]-Robert Feddeler(MT4799)T343) writes:\n\n>: Could somebody explain to me what a centrifuge is and what it is\n>: used for? I vaguely remembre it being something that spins test tubes\n>: around really fast but I cant remember why youd want to do that?\n\n>Purely recreational. They get bored sitting in that\n>rack all the time.\n\nNo, this is wrong. The purpose is to preserve the substances in\nthe tubes longer by creating relativistic speeds and thus\ntime dilatation. Of course, by slowing the subjective time of\nthe test tubes they get less bored, which is probably what you\nwere thinking of.\n-- \nDavid Rind\nrind@enterprise.bih.harvard.edu\n',
'From: Dan Wallach <dwallach@cs.berkeley.edu>\nSubject: FAQ: Typing Injuries (3/4): Keyboard Alternatives [monthly posting]\nSupersedes: <typing-injury-faq/keyboards_732179032@cs.berkeley.edu>\nOrganization: University of California, Berkeley\nLines: 652\nExpires: 22 May 1993 01:24:03 GMT\nReply-To: Dan Wallach <dwallach@cs.berkeley.edu>\nNNTP-Posting-Host: elmer-fudd.cs.berkeley.edu\nSummary: everything you ever wanted to know about replacing your keyboard\nOriginator: dwallach@elmer-fudd.cs.berkeley.edu\n\nArchive-name: typing-injury-faq/keyboards\nVersion: $Revision: 5.11 $ $Date: 1993/04/13 01:20:43 $\n\n-------------------------------------------------------------------------------\n Answers To Frequently Asked Questions about Keyboard Alternatives\n-------------------------------------------------------------------------------\n\nThe Alternative Keyboard FAQ\nCopyright 1992,1993 By Dan Wallach <dwallach@cs.berkeley.edu>\n\nThe opinions in here are my own, unless otherwise mentioned, and do not\nrepresent the opinions of any organization or vendor.\n\n[Current distribution: sci.med.occupational, sci.med, comp.human-factors,\n {news,sci,comp}.answers, and e-mail to c+health@iubvm.ucs.indiana.edu,\n sorehand@vm.ucsf.edu, and cstg-L@vtvm1.cc.vt.edu]\n\nChanges since previously distributed versions are marked with change ||\nbars to the right of the text, as is this paragraph. ||\n\nInformation in this FAQ has been pieced together from phone conversations,\ne-mail, and product literature. While I hope it\'s useful, the information\nin here is neither comprehensive nor error free. If you find something\nwrong or missing, please mail me, and I\'ll update my list. Thanks.\n\nAll phone numbers, unless otherwise mentioned, are U.S.A. phone numbers.\nAll monetary figures, unless otherwise mentioned, are U.S.A. dollars.\n\nProducts covered in this FAQ:\n Using a PC\'s keyboard on your workstation / compatibility issues\n Apple Computer, Inc.\n Key Tronic FlexPro\n Dragon Systems\n The Bat\n DataHand\n Comfort Keyboard System\n Kinesis Ergonomic Keyboard\n Maltron\n The Tony! Ergonomic KeySystem\n The Vertical\n The MIKey\n The Wave\n The Minimal Motion Computer Access System\n Twiddler\n Half-QWERTY\n Microwriter\n Braille \'n Speak\n Octima\n AccuKey\n\nGIF pictures of many of these products are available via anonymous ftp\nfrom soda.berkeley.edu:pub/typing-injury. (128.32.149.19) I highly\nrecommend getting the pictures. They tell much more than I can fit\ninto this file.\n\nIf you can\'t ftp, send me mail, and I\'ll uuencode and mail them to you\n(they\'re pretty big...)\n\n==============\nUsing a PC\'s keyboard on your workstation / compatibility issues\n\n Mini outline:\n 1. Spoofing a keyboard over the serial port\n 2. X terminals\n 3. NeXT\n 4. Silicon Graphics\n 5. IBM RS/6000\n\t6. Other stuff\n\n 1. Spoofing a keyboard over the serial port\n\n\tIf you\'ve got a proprietary computer which uses its own keyboard\n\t(Sun, HP, DEC, etc.) then you\'re going to have a hard time finding\n\ta vendor to sell you a compatible keyboard. If your workstation\n\truns the X window system, you\'re in luck. You can buy a cheap used\n\tPC, hook your expensive keyboard up to it, and run a serial cable\n\tto your workstation. Then, run a program on the workstation to read\n\tthe serial port and generate fake X keyboard events.\n\n\tThe two main programs I\'ve found to do this are KT and A2X.\n\n\ta2x is a sophisticated program, capable of controlling the mouse, and\n\teven moving among widgets on the screen. It requires a server\n\textension (XTEST, DEC-XTRAP, or XTestExtension1). To find out if your\n\tserver can do this, run \'xdpyinfo\' and see if any of these strings\n\tappear in the extensions list. If your server doesn\'t have this,\n\tyou may want to investigate compiling X11R5, patchlevel 18 or later,\n\tor bugging your vendor.\n\n\tkt is a simpler program, which should work with unextended X servers.\n\tAnother program called xsendevent also exists, but I haven\'t seen it.\n\n\tBoth a2x and kt are available via anonymous ftp from soda.berkeley.edu.\n\n 2. X terminals\n\n\tAlso, a number of X terminals (NCD, Tektronics, to name a few) use\n\tPC-compatible keyboards. If you have an X terminal, you may be all\n\tset. Try it out with a normal PC keyboard before you go through the\n\ttrouble of buying an alternative keyboard. Also, some X terminals add\n\textra buttons -- you may need to keep your original keyboard around\n\tfor the once-in-a-blue-moon that you have to hit the Setup key.\n\n 3. NeXT\n\n\tNeXT had announced that new NeXT machines will use the Apple Desktop\n\tBus, meaning any Mac keyboard will work. Then, they announced they\n\twere cancelling their hardware production. If you want any kind of\n\tupgrade for an older NeXT, do it now!\n\n 4. Silicon Graphics\n\n\tSilicon Graphics has announced that their newer machines (Indigo^2 and\n\tbeyond) will use standard PC-compatible keyboards and mice. I don\'t\n\tbelieve this also applies to the Power Series machines. It\'s not\n\tpossible to upgrade an older SGI to use PC keyboards, except by\n\tupgrading the entire machine. Contact your SGI sales rep for more\n\tdetails.\n\n 5. IBM RS/6000\n\n\tIBM RS/6000 keyboards are actually similar to normal PC keyboards. ||\n\tUnfortunately, you can\'t just plug one in. You need two things: a ||\n\tcable converter to go from the large PC keyboard connector to the ||\n\tsmaller PS/2 style DIN-6, and a new device driver for AIX. Believe ||\n\tit or not, IBM wrote this device driver recently, I used it, and it ||\n\tworks. However, they don\'t want me to redistribute it. I\'ve been ||\n\ttold Judy Hume (512) 823-6337 is a potential contact. If you learn ||\n\tanything new, please send me e-mail.\t\t\t\t ||\n \n 6. Other stuff\n\n\tSome vendors here (notably: Health Care Keyboard Co. and AccuCorp)\n\tsupport some odd keyboard types, and may be responsive to your\n\tqueries regarding supporting your own weird computer. If you can\n\tget sufficient documention about how your keyboard works (either\n\tfrom the vendor, or with a storage oscilloscope), you may be in\n\tluck. Contact the companies for more details.\n\n\nApple Adjustable Keyboard\n Apple Computer, Inc.\n Sales offices all over the place.\n\n Availability: February, 1993\n Price: $219\n Supports: Mac only\n\n Apple has recently announced their new split-design keyboard. The\n keyboard has one section for each hand, and the sections rotate\n backward on a hinge. The sections do not tilt upward. The keys are\n arranged in a normal QWERTY fashion.\n\n The main foldable keyboard resembles a normal Apple Keyboard.\n A separate keypad contains all the extended key functions.\n\n The keyboard also comes with matching wrist rests, which are not\n directly attachable to the keyboard.\n\n As soon as soda comes back up, I\'ll have a detailed blurb from\n TidBITS available there.\n\n\nFlexPro Keyboard\n Key Tronic\n Phone: 800-262-6006\n Possible contact: Denise Razzeto, 509-927-5299\n Sold by many clone vendors and PC shops\n\n Availability: Spring, 1993 (?)\n Price: $489 (?)\n Supports: PC only (highly likely)\n\n Keytronic apparently showed a prototype keyboard at Comdex. It\'s\n another split-design. One thumb-wheel controls the tilt of both\n the left and right-hand sides of the main alphanumeric section.\n The arrow keys and keypad resemble a normal 101-key PC keyboard.\n\n Keytronic makes standard PC keyboards, also, so this product will\n probably be sold through their standard distribution channels.\n\n\nDragonDictate-30K (and numerous other Dragon products)\n Dragon Systems, Inc.\n 320 Nevada Street\n Newton, MA 02160\n\n Phone: 800-TALK-TYP or 617-965-5200\n Fax: 617-527-0372\n\n Shipping: Now.\n\n Price: DragonDictate-30K -- $4995 (end user system)\n\t DragonWriter 1000 -- $1595 / $2495 (end user/developer system)\n\t various other prices for service contracts, site licenses, etc.\n \n Compatibility: 386 (or higher) PC only\n\t\t (3rd party support for Mac)\n\n\tFree software support for X windows is also available -- your\n\tPC with Dragon hardware talks to your workstation over a\n\tserial cable or network. The program is called a2x, and is\n\tavailable via anonymous ftp:\n\n\tsoda.berkeley.edu:pub/typing-injury/a2x.tar.Z\n\texport.lcs.mit.edu:contrib/a2x.tar.Z (most current)\n\n\tIf you want to use your Dragon product with X windows, you may want\n\tto ask for Peter Cohen, an salesman at Dragon who knows more about\n\tthis sort of thing.\n\n Dragon Systems sells a number of voice recognition products.\n Most (if not all) of them seem to run on PC\'s and compatibles\n (including PS/2\'s and other MicroChannel boxes). They sell you\n a hardware board and software which sits in front of a number\n of popular word processors and spreadsheets.\n\n Each user `trains\' the system to their voice, and there are provisions\n to correct the system when it makes mistakes, on the fly. Multiple\n people can use it, but you have to load a different personality file\n for each person. You still get the use of your normal keyboard, too.\n On the DragonDictate-30K you need to pause 1/10th sec between\n words. Dragon claims typical input speeds of 30-40 words per minute.\n I don\'t have specs on the DragonWriter 1000.\n\n The DragonDictate-30K can recognize 30,000 words at a time.\n The DragonWriter 1000 can recognize (you guessed it) 1000 words at a time.\n\n Dragon\'s technology is also part of the following products\n (about which I have no other info):\n\n\tMicrosoft Windows Sound System (Voice Pilot)\n\tIBM VoiceType\n\tVoice Navigator II (by Articulate Systems -- for Macintosh)\n\tEMStation (by Lanier Voice Products -- "emergency medical workstation")\n\n\nThe Bat\n old phone number: 504-336-0033\n current phone number: 504-766-8082\n\n Infogrip, Inc.\n 812 North Blvd.\n Baton Rouge, Louisiana 70802, U.S.A.\n\n Ward Bond (main contact)\n David Vicknair (did the Unix software) 504-766-1029\n\n Shipping: Now.\n\n Supports: Mac, IBM PC (serial port -- native keyboard port version\n coming very soon...). No other workstations supported, but serial\n support for Unix with X Windows has been written. PC and Mac are\n getting all the real attention from the company.\n\n A chording system. One hand is sufficient to type everything.\n The second hand is for redundancy and increased speed.\n\n Price:\n\t$495 (dual set -- each one is a complete keyboard by itself)\n\t$295 (single)\n\n\t(cheaper prices were offered at MacWorld Expo as a show-special.)\n\n\nDataHand 602-860-8584\n Industrial Innovations, Inc.\n 10789 North 90th Street\n Scottsdale, Arizona 85260-6727, U.S.A.\n\n Mark Roggenbuck (contact)\n\n Supports: PC and Mac\n\n Shipping: In beta. "Big backlog" -- could take 3+ months.\n\n Price: $2000/unit (1 unit == 2 pods). (new price!)\t\t\t ||\n\n Each hand has its own "pod". Each of the four main fingers has five\n switches each: forward, back, left, right, and down. The thumbs have\n a number of switches. Despite appearances, the key layout resembles\n QWERTY, and is reported to be no big deal to adapt to. The idea is\n that your hands never have to move to use the keyboard. The whole pod\n tilts in its base, to act as a mouse.\n\n (see also: the detailed review, written by Cliff Lasser <cal@THINK.COM>\n available via anonymous ftp from soda.berkeley.edu)\n\n\nComfort Keyboard System 414-253-4131\n FAX: 414-253-4177\n\n Health Care Keyboard Company\n N82 W15340 Appleton Ave\n Menomonee Falls, Wisconsin 53051 U.S.A.\n\n\n Jeffrey Szmanda (Vice President -- contact)\n\n Shipping: Now.\n\n Supports: PC (and Mac???)\t\t\t\t\t\t ||\n \n Planned future support:\n\tIBM 122-key layout (3270-style, I believe)\n\tSun Sparc\n\tDecision Data\n\tUnisys UTS-40\n\tSilicon Graphics\n\n\tOthers to be supported later. The hardware design is relatively\n\teasy for the company to re-configure.\n\n Price: $690, including one system "personality module".\t\t ||\n\n The idea is that one keyboard works with everything. You purchase\n "compatibility modules", a new cord, and possibly new keycaps, and\n then you can move your one keyboard around among different machines.\n\n It\'s a three-piece folding keyboard. The layout resembles the\n standard 101-key keyboard, except sliced into three sections. Each\n section is on a "custom telescoping universal mount." Each section\n independently adjusts to an infinite number of positions allowing each\n individual to type in a natural posture. You can rearrange the three\n sections, too (have the keypad in the middle if you want). Each\n section is otherwise normal-shaped (i.e.: you put all three sections\n flat, and you have what looks like a normal 101-key keyboard).\n\n\nKinesis Ergonomic Keyboard 206-455-9220\n 206-455-9233 (fax)\n\n Kinesis Corporation\n 15245 Pacific Highway South,\n Seattle, Washington 98188, U.S.A.\n\n Shirley Lunde (VP Marketing -- contact)\n\n Shipping: Now.\n\n Supports: PC. Mac and Sun Sparc in the works.\n\n Price: $690. Volume discounts available. The $690 includes one foot\n\tpedal, one set of adhesive wrist pads, and a TypingTutor program.\n\tAn additional foot pedal and other accessories are extra.\n\n The layout has a large blank space in the middle, even though the\n keyboard is about the size of a normal PC keyboard -- slightly\n smaller. Each hand has its own set of keys, laid out to minimize\n finger travel. Thumb buttons handle many major functions (enter,\n backspace, etc.).\n\n You can remap the keyboard in firmware (very nice when software won\'t\n allow the reconfig).\n\n Foot pedals are also available, and can be mapped to any key on the\n keyboard (shift, control, whatever).\n\n\nMaltron\t\t(+44) 081 398 3265 (United Kingdom)\n P.C.D. Maltron Limited\n 15 Orchard Lane\n East Molesey\n Surrey KT8 OBN\n England\n\n Pamela and Stephen Hobday (contacts)\n\n U.S. Distributor:\n\tJim Barrett\n\tApplied Learning Corp.\n\t1376 Glen Hardie Road\n\tWayne, PA 19087\n\n\tPhone: 215-688-6866\n\n Supports: PC\'s, Amstrad 1512/1640, BBC B, BBC Master,\n\t Mac apparently now also available\n\n\n Price: 375 pounds\n\t $735 shipped in the U.S.A. (basically, converted price + shipping)\n\n\t The cost is less for BBC computers, and they have a number of \n\t accessories, including carrying cases, switch boxes to use both\n\t your normal keyboard and the Maltron, an articulated arm that\n\t clamps on to your table, and training \'courses\' to help you learn\n\t to type on your Maltron.\n\n\t You can also rent a keyboard for 10 pounds/week + taxes.\n\t U.S. price: $120/month, and then $60 off purchase if you want it.\n\n Shipping: Now (in your choice of colors: black or grey)\n \n Maltron has four main products -- a two-handed keyboard, two one-handed\n keyboards, and a keyboard designed for handicapped people to control with\n a mouth-stick.\n\n The layout allocates more buttons to the thumbs, and is curved to\n bring keys closer to the fingers. A separate keypad is in the middle.\n\n\nAccuKey\n AccuCorp, Inc.\n P.O. Box 66\n Christiansburg, VA 24073, U.S.A.\n \n 703-961-3576 (Pete Rosenquist -- Sales)\n 703-961-2001 (Larry Langley -- President)\n \n Shipping: Now.\n Supports: PC, Mac, IBM 3270, Sun Sparc, and TeleVideo 935 and 955.\n Cost: $495 + shipping.\n \n Doesn\'t use conventional push-keys. Soft rubber keys, which rock\n forward and backward (each key has three states), make chords for\n typing keys. Learning time is estimated to be 2-3 hours, for getting\n started, and maybe two weeks to get used to it.\n\n Currently, the thumbs don\'t do anything, although a thumb-trackball\n is in the works.\n \n The company claims it takes about a week of work to support a\n new computer. They will be happy to adapt their keyboard to\n your computer, if possible.\n\n\nTwiddler\t516-474-4405, or 800-638-2352\n Handykey\n 141 Mt. Sinai Ave.\n Mt. Sinai, NY 11766\n\n Chris George (President)\n\n Shipping: now.\n\n Price: $199.\n\n Supports: PC only. Mac and X Windows in the works.\n\n The Twiddler is both a keyboard and a mouse, and it fits in one hand.\n You type via finger chords. Shift, control, etc. are thumb buttons.\n When in "mouse" mode, tilting the Twiddler moves the mouse, and mouse\n buttons are on your fingers.\n\n The cabling leaves your normal keyboard available, also.\n\n Most applications work, and Windows works fine. DESQview has trouble.\n GEOWorks also has trouble -- mouse works, keyboard doesn\'t.\n\n\nBraille \'n Speak 301-879-4944\n Blazie Engineering\n 3660 Mill Green Rd.\n Street, Md 21154, U.S.A.\n\n (information provided by Doug Martin <martin@nosc.mil>)\n\n The Braille N Speak uses any of several Braille codes for entering\n information: Grade I, Grade II, or computer Braille. Basically,\n letters a-j are combinations of dots 1, 2, 4, and 5. Letters k-t are\n the same combinations as a-j with dot 3 added. Letters u, v, x, y, and\n z are like a-e with dots 3 and 6 added. (w is unique because Louis\n Braille didn\'t have a w in the French alphabet.)\n\n\nThe Tony! Ergonomic KeySystem 415-969-8669\n Tony Hodges\n The Tony! Corporation\n 2332 Thompson Court\n Mountain View, CA 94043, U.S.A.\n\n Supports: Mac, PC, IBM 3270, Sun, and DEC.\n \n Shipping: ???\n\n Price: $625 (you commit now, and then you\'re in line to buy the\n keyboard. When it ships, if it\'s cheaper, you pay the cheaper price.\n If it\'s more expensive, you still pay $625)\n\n The Tony! should allow separate positioning of every key, to allow\n the keyboard to be personally customized. A thumb-operated mouse\n will also be available.\n\n\nThe Vertical\n Contact: Jeffrey Spencer or Stephen Albert, 619-454-0000\n P.O. Box 2636\n La Jolla, CA 92038, U.S.A.\n\n Supports: no info available, probably PC\'s\n Available: Summer, 1993\n Price: $249\n\n The Vertical Keyboard is split in two halves, each pointing straight up.\n The user can adjust the width of the device, but not the tilt of each\n section. Side-view mirrors are installed to allow users to see their\n fingers on the keys.\n\n\nThe MIKey 301-933-1111\n Dr. Alan Grant\n 3208 Woodhollow Drive\n Chevy Chase, Maryland 20815, U.S.A.\n\n Shipping: As of July, 1992: "Should be Available in One Year."\n\n Supports: PC, Mac (maybe)\n\n Price: $200 (estimated)\n\n The keyboard is at a fixed angle, and incorporates a built-in mouse\n operated by the thumbs. Function keys are arranged in a circle at\n the keyboard\'s left.\n\n\nThe Wave\t(was: 213-) 310-644-6100\n FAX: 310-644-6068\n\n Iocomm International Technology\n 12700 Yukon Avenue\n Hawthorne, California 90250, U.S.A.\n\n Robin Hunter (contact -- in sales)\n\n Cost: $99.95 + $15 for a set of cables\n\n Supports: PC only.\n\n Shipping: now.\n\n Iocomm also manufactures "ordinary" 101-key keyboard (PC/AT) and\n 84-key keyboard (PC/XT), so make sure you get the right one.\n\n The one-piece keyboard has a built-in wrist-rest. It looks *exactly*\n like a normal 101-key PC keyboard, with two inches of built-in wrist\n rest. The key switch feel is reported to be greatly improved.\n \n\nThe Minimal Motion Computer Access System \t508-263-6437\n 508-263-6537 (fax)\n\n Equal Access Computer Technology\n Dr. Michael Weinreigh\n 39 Oneida Rd.\n Acton, MA 01720, U.S.A.\n\n Price: InfoGrip-compatible: "a few hundred dollars" + a one-handed Bat\n\t For their own system: $300 (DOS software) + "a few hundred dollars"\n \n Shipping: these are custom-made, so an occupational therapist would\n\t make moulds/do whatever to make it for you. You can buy one now.\n \n Supports: PC only, although the InfoGrip-compatible version might\n\t work with a Mac.\n\n In a one-handed version, there is exactly one button per finger. In a\n two-handed version, you get four buttons per finger, and the thumbs\n don\'t do anything. You can also get one-handed versions with three\n thumb buttons -- compatible with the InfoGrip Bat. Basically, get it\n any way you want.\n\n They also have a software tutorial to help you learn the chording.\n\n Works on a PC under DOS, not Windows. Planning on Macintosh and\n PC/Windows support. No work has been done on a Unix version, yet.\n\n\nHalf-QWERTY\t(Canada) 416-749-3124\n The Matias Corporation\n 178 Thistledown Boulevard\n Rexdale, Ontario, Canada\n M9V 1K1\n\n E-mail: ematias@dgp.toronto.edu\n\n Supports: Mac and PC (but, not Windows)\n\n Demo for anonymous ftp: explorer.dgp.toronto.edu:/pub/Half-QWERTY\t ||\n\n Price: $129.95 (higher in Canada, quantity discounts available)\n Shipping: Now.\n \n This thing is purely software. No hardware at all.\n\n The software will mirror the keyboard when you hold down the space\n bar, allowing you type one-handed.\n\n\nOctima\t(Israel) 972-4-5322844\n FAX: (+972) 3 5322970\n\n Ergoplic Keyboards Ltd.\n P.O. Box 31\n Kiryat Ono 55100, Israel\n\n (info from Mandy Jaffe-Katz <RXHFUN@HAIFAUVM.BITNET>)\n A one-handed keyboard.\n\n\nMicrowriter AgendA (U.K.) (+44) 276 692 084\n FAX: (+44) 276 691 826\n\n Microwriter Systems plc\n M.S.A. House\n 2 Albany Court\n Albany Park\n Frimley\n Surrey GU15 2XA, United Kingdom\n\n (Info from Carroll Morgan <Carroll.Morgan@prg.oxford.ac.uk>)\n\n The AgendA is a personal desktop assistant (PDA) style machine. You\n can carry it along with you. It has chording input. You can also\n hook it up to your PC, or even program it.\n\n It costs just under 200 pounds, with 128K memory.\n===========\n\nThanks go to Chris Bekins <AS.CCB@forsythe.stanford.edu> for providing\nthe basis for this information.\n\nThanks to the numerous contributors:\n\nDoug Martin <martin@nosc.mil>\nCarroll Morgan <Carroll.Morgan@prg.oxford.ac.uk>\nMandy Jaffe-Katz <RXHFUN@HAIFAUVM.BITNET>\nWes Hunter <Wesley.Hunter@AtlantaGA.NCR.com>\nPaul Schwartz <pschwrtz@cs.washington.edu>\nH.J. Woltring <WOLTRING@NICI.KUN.NL>\nDan Sorenson <viking@iastate.edu>\nChris VanHaren <vanharen@MIT.EDU>\nRavi Pandya <ravi@xanadu.com>\nLeonard H. Tower Jr. <tower@ai.mit.edu>\nDan Jacobson <Dan_Jacobson@ATT.COM>\nJim Cheetham <jim@oasis.icl.co.uk>\nCliff Lasser <cal@THINK.COM>\nRichard Donkin <richardd@hoskyns.co.uk>\nPaul Rubin <phr@napa.Telebit.COM>\nDavid Erb <erb@fullfeed.com>\nBob Scheifler <rws@expo.lcs.mit.edu>\nChris Grant <Chris.Grant@um.cc.umich.edu>\nScott Mandell <sem1@postoffice.mail.cornell.edu>\n\nand everybody else who I\'ve probably managed to forget.\n\nThe opinions in here are my own, unless otherwise mentioned, and do not\nrepresent the opinions of any organization or vendor.\n-- \nDan Wallach "One of the most attractive features of a Connection\ndwallach@cs.berkeley.edu Machine is the array of blinking lights on the faces\nOffice#: 510-642-9585 of its cabinet." -- CM Paris Ref. Manual, v6.0, p48.\n',
'From: I3150101@dbstu1.rz.tu-bs.de (Benedikt Rosenau)\nSubject: Re: Wholly Babble (Was Re: free moral agency)\nOrganization: Technical University Braunschweig, Germany\nLines: 10\n\nIn article <2944159064.5.p00261@psilink.com>\n"Robert Knowles" <p00261@psilink.com> writes:\n \n(Deletion)\n>Of course, there is also the\n>Book of the SubGenius and that whole collection of writings as well.\n \n \nDoes someone know a FTP site with it?\n Benedikt\n',
'From: mossman@cea.Berkeley.EDU (Amy Mossman)\nSubject: Re: Is MSG sensitivity superstition?\nOrganization: CEA\nLines: 31\nDistribution: world\nNNTP-Posting-Host: mania.cea.berkeley.edu\n\nIn article <1993Apr15.135941.16105@lmpsbbs.comm.mot.com>, dougb@comm.mot.com (Doug Bank) writes:\n|> \n|> Here is another anecdotal story. I am a picky eater and never wanted to \n|> try chinese food, however, I finally tried some in order to please a\n|> girl I was seeing at the time. I had never heard of Chinese restaurant\n|> syndrome. A group of us went to the restaurant and all shared 6 different\n|> dishes. It didn\'t taste great, but I decided it wasn\'t so bad. We went\n|> home and went to bed early. I woke up at 2 AM and puked my guts outs.\n|> I threw up for so long that (I\'m not kidding) I pulled a muscle in\n|> my tongue. Dry heaves and everything. No one else got sick, and I\'m\n|> not allergic to anything that I know of. \n|> \n|> Suffice to say that I wont go into a chinese restaurant unless I am \n|> physically threatened. The smell of the food makes me ill (and that *is*\n|> a psycholgical reaction). When I have been dragged in to suffer\n|> through beef and broccoli without any sauces, I insist on no MSG. \n|> I haven\'t gotten sick yet.\n|> \n|> -- \n\nI had a similar reaction to Chinese food but came to a completly different\nconclusion. I\'ve eaten Chinese food for ages and never had problems. I went\nwith some Chinese Malaysian friends to a swanky Chinses rest. and they ordered\nlots of stuff I had never seen before. The only thing I can remember of that\nmeal was the first course, scallops served in the shell with a soy-type sauce.\nI thought, "Well, I\'ve only had scallops once and I was sick after but that\ncould have been a coincidence". That night as I sat on the bathroom floor,\nsweating and emptying my stomach the hard way, I decided I would never touch\nanother scallop. I may not be allergic but I don\'t want to take the chance.\n\nAmy Mossman\n',
'From: jian@coos.dartmouth.edu (Jian Lu)\nSubject: Grayscale Printer\nSummary: image printer under $5000\nDistribution: na\nOrganization: Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH\nLines: 6\n\nWe are interested in purchasing a grayscale printer that offers a good\nresoltuion for grayscale medical images. Can anybody give me some\nrecommendations on these products in the market, in particular, those\nunder $5000?\n\nThank for the advice.\n',
'From: darice@yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au (Fred Rice)\nSubject: Re: Islam And Scientific Predictions (was Re: Genocide is Caused by Atheism)\nOrganization: Monash University, Melb., Australia.\nLines: 60\n\nIn <CINDY.93Apr18124333@solan10.solan.unit.no> cindy@solan10.solan.unit.no (Cynthia Kandolf) writes:\n\n>Various quotes deleted in the interest of saving a little bit of\n>bandwidth, but i will copy the Koran quote:\n>>>>"AND IT IS HE (GOD ALMIGHTY) WHO CREATED THE NIGHT AND THE\n>>>>DAY, AND THE SUN AND THE EARTH: ALL (THE CELETIAL BODIES)\n>>>>SWIM ALONG, EACH IN ITS ROUNDED COURSE." (Holy Quran 21:33)\n\n>As it has been pointed out, this quote makes no claim about what\n>orbits what. The idea that something orbited something had been held\n>as true for many years before the Koran was written, so the fact that\n>it says something orbits something is hardly surprising insight. My\n>concern is with the word "rounded". \n\n>There are two interpretations of this word:\n>1. It means in a circle. This is wrong, although many believed it to\n>be true at the time the Koran was written. In other words, it is not\n>describing our neighborhood of the universe as it really exists, but\n>as it was thought to be at the time. This has implications which i\n>hope are obvious to everyone.\n>2. It means "in a rounded shape", which could include elipses (the\n>geometrical form which most nearly describes the orbits of the\n>planets). This is also not a great insight. Look at the shapes you\n>see in nature. Very few of them even approach a square or rectangle;\n>those are human-created shapes. Everything in nature is rounded to\n>some degree. Even the flat-earthers don\'t try to claim Earth is a\n>rectangle. Children who draw imaginary animals seldom give them\n>rectangular bodies. We seem to instinctively recognize that nature\n>produces rounded shapes; hence, the assumption that the orbits of the\n>planets would be round hardly takes divine inspiration.\n\nIt is good to remember that every translation is to some extent an\ninterpretation, so (as you point out below) one must really go back to\nthe original Arabic. Regarding the verses relevant to nature, I prefer\nto use Dr. Maurice Bucaille\'s translations (in his book, "The Bible, the\nQur\'an and Science") for in general his translations are more literal.\n \nMaurice Bucaille translates the portion of the verse you are addressing\nas \n\n"...Each one is travelling with an orbit in its own motion."\n\n(Also note that "the celestial bodies" in the first translation quoted\nby you above is the translator\'s interpolation -- it is not existent in\nthe original Arabic, which is why it is included in brackets.) \n\n>Perhaps someone who can read the original Arabic can eliminate one of\n>these interpretations; at any rate, neither one of them is exactly\n>impressive.\n\nYou\'re right, what the verses _do_ contain isn\'t all that remarkable.\n\nHowever, Dr. Bucaille (a surgeon, that\'s how he\'s a "Dr.") thinks it is\nsignificant that the above verse contains no geocentric ideas, even\nthough geocentrism was all the rage up until the 17th century (?) or so.\n(And this goes for the rest of the Qur\'an as well, which has about 750\nverses or so regarding nature, I think I remember reading once.)\n\n Fred Rice\n darice@yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au \n',
'From: schlegel@cwis.unomaha.edu (Mark Schlegel)\nSubject: Re: Amusing atheists and agnostics\nOrganization: University of Nebraska at Omaha\nLines: 86\n\ntimmbake@mcl.ucsb.edu (Bake Timmons) writes:\n\n>\tAtheism denies the existence of God. This is logically bankrupt --\n>where is the proof of this nonexistence? It\'s a joke.\n\n This is one of my favorite fallacious points against atheism, i.e. the \n belief that you can\'t deny anything that you can\'t prove doesn\'t exist.\n This is easily nailed by showing that an infinite number of beings are\n conceivable but not observed to exist, does this mean that we would have\n to believe in all of them? According to the above poster, we must believe\n in objects or beings that haven\'t been proved not to exist so why stop at\n God? (there could be a huge number of beings identical to Ronald Reagan\n except for trivial differences, say one is missing a finger, one has blond\n hair,... and they all live on other planets so we can\'t see them) The \n reason no one but atheists bring this up is that none of these christians\n have a vested interest in these unknown beings with the exception of God.\n\n>Fine, but why do these people shoot themselves in the foot and mock the idea of\n>a God? Here again is a classic atheist fallacy.\n\n How did they shoot themselves in the foot?\n\n>\tRadical Muslims, the Crusades, the Inquisition are common examples that\n>atheists like to bring up as marks against religion. How weak! Only fools can\n>take that drivel seriously. How about the grand-daddy of all human atrocities,\n>the Stalinist movement?\n>\tTwenty eight MILLION people _killed_ under this leadership, which\n>proudly featured atheism.\n\n There is a big difference here, Stalin didn\'t say that he stood for a \n particular moral position (i.e. against murder and terrorism, etc.) and\n then did the opposite (like the religious movements), he was at least\n an honest killer. (This is NOT a support of Stalin but an attack on this\n viewpoint). Saying that atheism supports murder and violence just because\n one man was a tyrant and an atheist is just bad logic, look at all the\n russians that helped Stalin that weren\'t atheists - don\'t they contradict\n your point? Besides your point assumes that his atheism was relevant\n to his murdering people, this is just the common assumption that atheists\n can\'t value life as much as theists (which you didn\'t support). \n\n>\tAgnostics are not as funny because they are more reasonable. Yet\n>they do in some sense seem funny because they believe that the existence of God\n>is unknowable. This in itself is every bit the assumption that atheism is,\n>though it\'s less arrogant and pompous.\n\n Ah, and here\'s another point you didn\'t get out of the FAQ. An atheist\n doesn\'t have to hold the positive view that god doesn\'t exist, he/she may\n just have the non-existence of the positive belief. Here\'s the example:\n \n Strong atheism - "I believe god does not exist" a positive belief\n\n Weak atheism - "I don\'t believe in a god" a negative belief\n \n these are NOT the same, some one that has never thought of the idea of\n god in their whole life is technically an atheist, but not the kind that\n you are calling unreasonable. Or let\'s look at it this way (in sets)\n \n suppose that a given person has a huge set of ideas that I will represent\n as capital letters and these people then either believe that these ideas\n exist as real objects or not. So if S = santa, then E(S)= no is the person\n not believing in santa but still having the idea of santa. But notice that\n even E(S) = no is itself another idea! This means you have lots of cases:\n \n christian : (A,E(A)=yes,B,E(B)=no, . . . G,E(G)=yes......) where G = god\n \n atheist (strong) : (A,E(A). . . . .G,E(G)=no)\n \n atheist (weak) : (A,.....E) i.e. no G at all in the set\n \n agnostic : (A,.......G, E(G) = indeterminate, E\', ....) \n\n\n>\tWhy are people so afraid to say "undecided"? It must just be another\n>feature of human nature -- "undecided" is not a sexy, trendy, or glamorous\n>word. It does not inspire much hate or conflict. It\'s not blasphemous.\n>It\'s not political. In fact it is too often taken to mean unsophisticated.\n\n Nietzsche once said that a man would rather will nonexistence than not\n will at all but the darwinist way to put this is that humanity always \n prefers no or yes to a maybe because indecision is not a useful survival\n trait, evolution has drilled it in us to take positions, even false ones.\n\n\n>Bake Timmons, III\n\nM.S.\n',
'From: dpw@sei.cmu.edu (David Wood)\nSubject: Request for Support\nOrganization: Software Engineering Institute\nLines: 35\n\n\n\nI have a request for those who would like to see Charley Wingate\nrespond to the "Charley Challenges" (and judging from my e-mail, there\nappear to be quite a few of you.) \n\nIt is clear that Mr. Wingate intends to continue to post tangential or\nunrelated articles while ingoring the Challenges themselves. Between\nthe last two re-postings of the Challenges, I noted perhaps a dozen or\nmore posts by Mr. Wingate, none of which answered a single Challenge. \n\nIt seems unmistakable to me that Mr. Wingate hopes that the questions\nwill just go away, and he is doing his level best to change the\nsubject. Given that this seems a rather common net.theist tactic, I\nwould like to suggest that we impress upon him our desire for answers,\nin the following manner:\n\n1. Ignore any future articles by Mr. Wingate that do not address the\nChallenges, until he answers them or explictly announces that he\nrefuses to do so.\n\n--or--\n\n2. If you must respond to one of his articles, include within it\nsomething similar to the following:\n\n "Please answer the questions posed to you in the Charley Challenges."\n\nReally, I\'m not looking to humiliate anyone here, I just want some\nhonest answers. You wouldn\'t think that honesty would be too much to\nask from a devout Christian, would you? \n\nNevermind, that was a rhetorical question.\n\n--Dave Wood\n',
"From: halat@pooh.bears (Jim Halat)\nSubject: Islam is caused by believing (was Re: Genocide is Caused by Theism)\nReply-To: halat@pooh.bears (Jim Halat)\nLines: 40\n\n\n\nIn article <1993Apr13.173100.29861@ultb.isc.rit.edu> snm6394@ultb.isc.rit.edu (S.N. Mozumder ) writes:\n\n>>I'm only saying that anything can happen under atheism. Being a\n>>beleiver, a knowledgeable one in religion, only good can happen.\n\nThis is becoming a tiresome statement. Coming from you it is \na definition, not an assertion:\n\n Islam is good. Belief in Islam is good. Therefore, being a \n believer in Islam can produce only good...because Islam is\n good. Blah blah blah.\n\nThat's about as circular as it gets, and equally meaningless. To\nsay that something produces only good because it is only good that \nit produces is nothing more than an unapplied definition. And\nall you're application is saying that it's true if you really \nbelieve it's true. That's silly.\n\nConversely, you say off-handedly that _anything_ can happen under\natheism. Again, just an offshoot of believe-it-and-it-becomes-true-\ndon't-believe-it-and-it-doesn't. \n\nLike other religions I'm aquainted with, Islam teaches exclusion and\ncaste, and suggests harsh penalties for _behaviors_ that have no\nlogical call for punishment (certain limits on speech and sex, for\nexample). To me this is not good. I see much pain and suffering\nwithout any justification, except for the _waving of the hand_ of\nsome inaccessible god.\n\nBy the by, you toss around the word knowledgable a bit carelessly.\nFor what is a _knowledgeable believer_ except a contradiction of\nterms. I infer that you mean believer in terms of having faith.\nAnd If you need knowledge to believe then faith has nothing\nto do with it, does it?\n\n-jim halat\n \n\n",
"From: dlecoint@garnet.acns.fsu.edu (Darius_Lecointe)\nSubject: Re: Some questions from a new Christian\nOrganization: Florida State University\nLines: 27\n\n18669@bach.udel.edu (Steven R Hoskins) writes:\n\n> ... I realize I am very ignorant about much of the Bible and\n> quite possibly about what Christians should hold as true. This I am trying\n> to rectify (by reading the Bible of course), but it would be helpful\n> to also read a good interpretation/commentary on the Bible or other\n> relevant aspects of the Christian faith. One of my questions I would\n> like to ask is - Can anyone recommend a good reading list of theological\n> works intended for a lay person?\n\nI won't even recommend books from my congregation. What you ask sounds\nattractive but it is dangerous. As a new Christian you don't want to be\ncontaminated with other people's interpretation. Steep your self in\nscripture, and discuss with other christians. Read if your must but\nremember that what other people write is their interpretation. God has\npromised to give you light, so ask for it.\n\n> I have another question I would like to ask. I am not yet affiliated\n> with any one congregation. Aside from matters of taste, what criteria\n> should one use in choosing a church? I don't really know the difference\n> between the various Protestant denominations.\n\n\nDon't wait too long before attaching yourself to church. Just remember to\nalways compare what they teach you with scripture like the Bereans did.\n\nDarius\n",
'From: pan@panda.Stanford.EDU (Doug Pan)\nSubject: Re: Is MSG sensitivity superstition?\nIn-Reply-To: mossman@cea.Berkeley.EDU\'s message of 15 Apr 1993 19:41:40 GMT\nOrganization: InterViews/Allegro group, Stanford University\n\t<1993Apr13.144340.3549@news.cs.brandeis.edu>\n\t<1993Apr14.012946.114440@zeus.calpoly.edu>\n\t<1993Apr14.122647.16364@tms390.micro.ti.com>\n\t<1993Apr15.135941.16105@lmpsbbs.comm.mot.com>\n\t<1qkdpk$5k6@agate.berkeley.edu>\nLines: 26\n\nIn article <1qkdpk$5k6@agate.berkeley.edu> mossman@cea.Berkeley.EDU (Amy Mossman) writes:\n\n> I had a similar reaction to Chinese food but came to a completly different\n> conclusion. I\'ve eaten Chinese food for ages and never had problems. I went\n> with some Chinese Malaysian friends to a swanky Chinses rest. and they ordered\n> lots of stuff I had never seen before. The only thing I can remember of that\n> meal was the first course, scallops served in the shell with a soy-type sauce.\n> I thought, "Well, I\'ve only had scallops once and I was sick after but that\n> could have been a coincidence". That night as I sat on the bathroom floor,\n> sweating and emptying my stomach the hard way, I decided I would never touch\n> another scallop. I may not be allergic but I don\'t want to take the chance.\n\nI don\'t react to scallops, but did have discomforts with clam juice\nserved at (American) waterfront seafood bars. I don\'t know whether\nthe juice is homemade or from cans.\n\nThe following is my first encounter with the Chinese Restaurant\nSyndrome. Ten years ago, about an hour after having Won Ton Soup I\ncollapsed in a chair with my face feeling puffed up, my scalp\ntingling, my feet too weak to stand up. The symptoms lasted for about\n20 minutes. Determined to find out the cause of my first reaction, I\nwent back to the Chinese restuarant and ordered the same dish. The\nsame thing happened. A quick look inside the kitchen revealed nothing\nout of the ordinary.\n\nI\'ve also had a mild attack after having soup at a Thai restuarant.\n',
"From: mcdonald@aries.scs.uiuc.edu (J. D. McDonald)\nSubject: Re: jiggers\nArticle-I.D.: aries.mcdonald.895.734049502\nOrganization: UIUC SCS\nLines: 13\n\nIn article <78846@cup.portal.com> mmm@cup.portal.com (Mark Robert Thorson) writes:\n\n>This wouldn't happen to be the same thing as chiggers, would it?\n>A truly awful parasitic affliction, as I understand it. Tiny bugs\n>dig deeply into the skin, burying themselves. Yuck! They have these\n>things in Oklahoma.\n\nClose. My mother comes from Gainesville Tex, right across the border.\nThey claim to be the chigger capitol of the world, and I believe them.\nWhen I grew up in Fort Worth it was bad enough, but in Gainesville\nin the summer an attack was guaranteed.\n\nDoug McDonald\n",
"From: ricardo@rchland.vnet.ibm.com (Ricardo Hernandez Muchado)\nSubject: Re: Rumours about 3DO ???\nDisclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not necessarily those of IBM\nNntp-Posting-Host: rs43873.rchland.ibm.com\nOrganization: IBM Rochester\nLines: 35\n\nIn article <1993Apr19.121925.14451@microware.com>, jejones@microware.com (James Jones) writes:\n|> In article <1993Apr15.164940.11632@mercury.unt.edu> Sean McMains <mcmains@unt.edu> writes:\n|> >In article <1993Apr15.144843.19549@rchland.ibm.com> Ricardo Hernandez\n|> >Muchado, ricardo@rchland.vnet.ibm.com writes:\n|> >> And CD-I's CPU doesn't help much either. I understand it is\n|> >>a 68070 (supposedly a variation of a 68000/68010) running at something\n|> >>like 7Mhz. With this speed, you *truly* need sprites.\n|> >\n|> >Wow! A 68070! I'd be very interested to get my hands on one of these,\n|> >especially considering the fact that Motorola has not yet released the\n|> >68060, which is supposedly the next in the 680x0 lineup. 8-D\n|> \n|> Don't get too excited; Signetics, not Motorola, gave the 68070 its number.\n|> The 68070, if I understand rightly, uses the 68000 instruction set, and has\n|> an on-chip serial port and DMA. (It will run at up to 15 MHz--I'm typing\n|> at a computer using a 68070 running at that rate, so I know that it can\n|> do so--so I seriously doubt the clock rate that ricardo@rchland.vnet.ibm.com\n|> claims.)\n|> \n|> \tJames Jones\n\n Just because the 68070 can run upto 15Mhz doesn't mean the CD-I\nis running at that speed. I said -> I understand it is a 68070 running\nat something like 7Mhz. I am not sure, but I think I read this a long\ntime ago.\n\n Anyway, still with 15Mhz, you need sprites for a lot of tricks for\nmaking cool awesome games (read psygnosis).\n\n--------------------------------------\nRaist New A1200 owner 320<->1280 in x, 200<->600 in y\nin 256,000+ colors from a 24-bit palette. **I LOVE IT!**<- New Low Fat .sig\n*don't e-mail me* -> I don't have a valid address nor can I send e-mail\n\n \n",
'From: x92lee22@gw.wmich.edu\nSubject: Re: Is MSG sensitivity superstition?\nOrganization: Western Michigan University\nLines: 33\n\nIn article <annick.735440726@cortex.physiol.su.oz.au>, annick@cortex.physiol.su.oz.au (Annick Ansselin) writes:\n> In <C5nFDG.8En@sdf.lonestar.org> marco@sdf.lonestar.org (Steve Giammarco) writes:\n> \n>>>\n>>>And to add further fuel to the flame war, I read about 20 years ago that\n>>>the "natural" MSG - extracted from the sources you mention above - does not\n>>>cause the reported aftereffects; it\'s only that nasty "artificial" MSG -\n>>>extracted from coal tar or whatever - that causes Chinese Restaurant\n>>>Syndrome. I find this pretty hard to believe; has anyone else heard it?\n> \n> MSG is mono sodium glutamate, a fairly straight forward compound. If it is\n> pure, the source should not be a problem. Your comment suggests that \n> impurities may be the cause.\n> My experience of MSG effects (as part of a double blind study) was that the\n> pure stuff caused me some rather severe effects.\n> \n>>I was under the (possibly incorrect) assumption that most of the MSG on\n>>our foods was made from processing sugar beets. Is this not true? Are \n>>there other sources of MSG?\n> \n> Soya bean, fermented cheeses, mushrooms all contain MSG. \n> \n>>I am one of those folx who react, sometimes strongly, to MSG. However,\n>>I also react strongly to sodium chloride (table salt) in excess. Each\n>>causes different symptoms except for the common one of rapid heartbeat\n>>and an uncomfortable feeling of pressure in my chest, upper left quadrant.\n> \n> The symptoms I had were numbness of jaw muscles in the first instance\n> followed by the arms then the legs, headache, lethargy and unable to keep\n> awake. I think it may well affect people differently.\n\nWell, I think msg is made from a kind of plant call "tapioca" and not those\nstaff you mentiond above.\n',
"From: uabdpo.dpo.uab.edu!gila005 (Stephen Holland)\nSubject: Re: diet for Crohn's (IBD)\nOrganization: Gastroenterology - Univ. of Alabama\nDistribution: usa\nLines: 36\n\nIn article <1r6g8fINNe88@ceti.cs.unc.edu>, jge@cs.unc.edu (John Eyles)\nwrote:\n> \n> \n> A friend has what is apparently a fairly minor case of Crohn's\n> disease.\n> \n> But she can't seem to eat certain foods, such as fresh vegetables,\n> without discomfort, and of course she wants to avoid a recurrence.\n> \n> Her question is: are there any nutritionists who specialize in the\n> problems of people with Crohn's disease ?\n> \n> (I saw the suggestion of lipoxygnase inhibitors like tea and turmeric).\n> \n> Thanks in advance,\n> John Eyles\n> jge@cs.unc.edu\n\nIf she is having problems with fresh vegetables, the guess is that there\nis some obstruction of the intestine. Without knowing more it is not\npossible to say whether the obstruction is permanent due to scarring,\nor temporary due to swelling of inflammed intestine. In general, there are\nno dietary limitations in patients with Crohn's except as they relate\nto obstruction. There is no evidence that any foods will bring on \nrecurrence of Crohn's. It is important to distinguish recurrence from\nrecurrent symptoms. A physician would think of new inflammation as \nrecurrence, while pains from raw veggies just imply a narrowing of the\nintestine. \n\nYour friend should look into membership in the Crohn's and Colitis \nFoundation of America. 1-800-932-2423\n\nGood luck to your friend.\n\nSteve Holland\n",
"From: halat@pooh.bears (Jim Halat)\nSubject: Re: The nonexistance of Atheists?!\nReply-To: halat@pooh.bears (Jim Halat)\nLines: 38\n\n>In article <kutluk.734797558@ccl.umist.ac.uk> kutluk@ccl.umist.ac.uk (Kutluk Ozguven) writes:\n>>Atheists are not\n>>mentioned in the Quran because from a Quranic point of view, and a\n>>minute's reasoning, one can see that there is no such thing.\n\n\nI guess that's why scientists probably aren't mentioned either. Or\nstock brokers. Or television repairmen. \n\nIt's precious to know just how deep the brainwashing from childhood\n( that it takes to progress a religion ) cleans away a very substantial\npart of the reasoning neurons.\n\nBut don't mind me; I don't exist.\n\n-jim halat\n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n\n",
"From: seth@north13.acpub.duke.edu (Seth Wandersman)\nSubject: univesa driver\nReply-To: seth@north13.acpub.duke.edu (Seth Wandersman)\nLines: 7\nNntp-Posting-Host: north13.acpub.duke.edu\n\n\n\tI got the univesa driver available over the net. I thought that finally\nmy 1-meg oak board would be able to show 680x1024 256 colors. Unfortunately a\nprogram still says that I can't do this. Is it the fault of the program (fractint)\nor is there something wrong with my card.\n\tunivesa- a free driver available over the net that makes many boards\nvesa compatible. \n",
"From: nyeda@cnsvax.uwec.edu (David Nye)\nSubject: Re: Mental Illness\nOrganization: University of Wisconsin Eau Claire\nLines: 13\n\n[reply to dabbott@augean.eleceng.adelaide.edu.AU (Derek Abbott)]\n \n>Are there any case histories of severe mental illness cases remarkably\n>recovering after a tragic accident or trauma (eg. through nobody's fault,\n>being trapped in a fire and losing your legs, say)?\n \nI know of a patient who was severely and chronically depressed and tried\nto kill himself with a bullet to the temple. He essentially gave\nhimself a prefrontal lobotomy, curing the depression.\n \nDavid Nye (nyeda@cnsvax.uwec.edu). Midelfort Clinic, Eau Claire WI\nThis is patently absurd; but whoever wishes to become a philosopher\nmust learn not to be frightened by absurdities. -- Bertrand Russell\n",
'From: JEK@cu.nih.gov\nSubject: muslim tithe; sexism in Genesis 2\nLines: 33\n\nAccording to mdbs@ms.uky.edu, muslims tithe 1/6 of their income.\n\nPerhaps there are some offshoots of Islam that impose this on their\nfollowers. But the standard tithe is 1/40 of one\'s net worth, once\na year.\n\nThe same writer also objects to the Bible for teaching that\n\n > "woman was created after man, to be his helper" etc.\n\nThis is presumably a reference to Genesis 2. Suppose that that\nchapter had been written with the sexes reversed. We have God\ncreating woman, and then saying, "It is not good that woman should\nbe alone. I will make a help meet for her." Feminists would be\noutraged. The clear implication would be that God had started at the\nbottom and worked up, making first the plants, then the fish and\nbirds, then the beasts, then woman, and finally His masterpiece, the\nMale Chauvinist Pig. The statement that woman is not capable of\nfunctioning by herself, that she needs a man to open doors for her,\nwould have been seen as a particularly gratuitous insult. The fact\nthat the creation of woman from the dust of the ground was given\nonly briefly and in general, while the creation of the Man was given\nin six times the number of words, would have been cited as evidence\nof the author\'s estimate of the relative importance of the sexes.\nThe verdict would have been unequivocal. "No self-respecting woman\ncan accept this book as a moral guide, or as anything but sexist\ntrash!" I suggest that Moses, fearing this reaction, altered his\noriginal draft and described the creation with Adam first and then\nEve, so as to appease Miriam and other radical feminists of the day.\nFor some reason, however, it did not work.\n\n Yours,\n James Kiefer\n',
"From: lau@auriga.rose.brandeis.edu (frankie t. k. lau)\nSubject: PC fastest line/circle drawing routines: HELP!\nOrganization: Brandeis University\nLines: 41\n\nhi all,\n\nIN SHORT: looking for very fast assembly code for line/circle drawing\n\t on SVGA graphics.\n\nCOMPLETE:\n\tI am thinking of a simple but fast molecular\ngraphics program to write on PC or clones. (ball-and-stick type)\n\nReasons: programs that I've seen are far too slow for this purpose.\n\nPlatform: 386/486 class machine.\n\t 800x600-16 or 1024x728-16 VGA graphics\n\t\t(speed is important, 16-color for non-rendering\n\t\t purpose is enough; may stay at 800x600 for\n\t\t speed reason.)\n (hope the code would be generic enough for different SVGA\n cards. My own card is based on Trident 8900c, not VESA?)\n\nWhat I'm looking for?\n1) fast, very fast routines to draw lines/circles/simple-shapes\n on above-mentioned SVGA resolutions.\n Presumably in assembly languagine.\n\tYes, VERY FAST please.\n2) related codes to help rotating/zooming/animating the drawings on screen.\n Drawings for beginning, would be lines, circles mainly, think of\n text, else later.\n (you know, the way molecular graphics rotates, zooms a molecule)\n2) and any other codes (preferentially in C) that can help the \n project.\n\nFinal remarks;-\nnon-profit. expected to become share-, free-ware.\n\n\tAny help is appreciated.\n\tthanks\n\n-Frankie\nlau@tammy.harvard.edu\n\nPS pls also email, I may miss reply-post.\n",
"From: cfaehl@vesta.unm.edu (Chris Faehl)\nSubject: Re: some thoughts.\nOrganization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque\nLines: 12\nDistribution: world\nNNTP-Posting-Host: vesta.unm.edu\nKeywords: Dan Bissell\n\nIn article <healta.145.734928689@saturn.wwc.edu>, healta@saturn.wwc.edu (Tammy R Healy) writes:\n[deletia wrt pathetic Jee-zus posting by Bissel] \n> I hope you're not going to flame him. Please give him the same coutesy you'\n> ve given me.\n\nNO. He hasn't extended to US the courtesy you've shown us, so he don't get no\npie. Tammy, I respect your beliefs because you don't try to stamp them into\nmy being. I have scorn for posters whose sole purpose appears to be to\nevangelize.\n \n> \n> Tammy\n",
'From: JEK@cu.nih.gov\nSubject: Watt misquoted\nLines: 30\n\n\n heath@athena.cs.uga.edu (Terrance Heath) writes:\n\n > I realize I\'m entering this discussion rather late, but I do\n > have one question. Wasn\'t it a Reagan appointee, James Watt, a\n > pentacostal christian (I think) who was the secretary of the\n > interior who saw no problem with deforestation since we were\n > "living in the last days" and ours would be the last generation\n > to see the redwoods anyway?\n\nFor the Record:\n\nOn February 5, 1981, at a House of Representatives\nInterior Committee Meeting, Rep. James Weaver (D, Ore), asked Watt\nwhether "you agree that we should save some of our scenic resources\nfor our children, not just gobble them up all at once?" Watt\'s\nanswer was:\n\n < Absolutely. That is the delicate balance the Secretary of the\n < Interior must have -- to be steward for the natural resources\n < for this generation as well as future generations. I do not\n < know how many future generations we can count on before the\n < Lord returns. Whatever it is, we have to manage with a skill\n < to have the resources needed for future generations.\n\nMy source is a column by Rowland Evans and Robert Novak on the\nop-ed page of the WASHINGTON POST for Friday 21 August 1981.\n\n Yours,\n James Kiefer\n',
"From: cavalier@blkbox.COM (Bill Egan)\nSubject: Re: Weitek P9000 ?\nNntp-Posting-Host: port3.houston.pub-ip.psi.net\nOrganization: Performance Systems Int'l\nLines: 13\n\njgreen@amber (Joe Green) writes:\n>> > Anyone know about the Weitek P9000 graphics chip?\n\n>Do you have Weitek's address/phone number? I'd like to get some information\n>about this chip.\n\nYes, I am very interested in this chip. Please follow up or email.\n\n--\nBill Egan \nCavalier Graphics\nHouston, Texas\nEmail: cavalier@blkbox.com \n",
'From: I3150101@dbstu1.rz.tu-bs.de (Benedikt Rosenau)\nSubject: Re: Islam And Scientific Predictions (was Re: Genocide is Caused by Atheism)\nOrganization: Technical University Braunschweig, Germany\nLines: 19\n\nIn article <1993Apr17.122329.21438@monu6.cc.monash.edu.au>\ndarice@yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au (Fred Rice) writes:\n \n>>>"AND IT IS HE (GOD ALMIGHTY) WHO CREATED THE NIGHT AND THE\n>>>DAY, AND THE SUN AND THE EARTH: ALL (THE CELETIAL BODIES)\n>>>SWIM ALONG, EACH IN ITS ROUNDED COURSE." (Holy Quran 21:33)\n>\n>>Hmm. This agrees with the Ptolemic system of the earth at the centre,\n>>with the planets orbitting round it. So Copernicus and Gallileo were\n>>wrong after all!\n>\n>You haven\'t read very carefully -- if you look again, you will see that\n>it doesn\'t say anything about what is circling what.\n>\n \nAnyway, they are not moving in circles. Nor is there any evidence that\neverything goes around in a rounded course in a general sense. Wishy-\nwashy statements are not scientific.\n Benedikt\n',
"From: kene@acs.bu.edu (Kenneth Engel)\nSubject: Re: Atheists and Hell\nOrganization: Boston University, Boston, MA, USA\nLines: 18\n\n|> Imagine the worst depth of despair you've\n|> ever encountered, or the worst physical pain you've ever experienced.\n|> Some people suffer such emotional, physical, and mental anguish\n|> in their lives that their deaths seem to be merciful. But at least\n|> the pain does end in death. What if you lived a hundred such lives,\n|> at the conclusion of one you were instantly reborn into another?\n|> What if you lived a million, a billion years in this state?\n|> What if this kept going forever?\n\n\nDid this happen to Jesus? I don't think so, not from what I heard. He lived\nONE DAY of suffering and died. If the wages of sin is the above paragraph, then\nJESUS DIDN'T PAY FOR OUR SINS, DID HE?\n\nI'd be surprised to see the moderator let this one through, but I seriously\nwant a reasonable explanation for this.\n\nken\n",
'From: a137490@lehtori.cc.tut.fi (Aario Sami)\nSubject: Re: Genocide is Caused by Atheism\nOrganization: Tampere University of Technology, Computing Centre\nLines: 37\nDistribution: sfnet\nNNTP-Posting-Host: cc.tut.fi\n\n[deletions...]\n\nIn <1993Apr13.184227.1191@ultb.isc.rit.edu> snm6394@ultb.isc.rit.edu (S.N. Mozumder ) writes:\n\n>I really don\'t think you can imagine what it is like to be infinite.\n\nFirst of all, infinity is a mathematical concept created by humans\nto explain certain things in a certain way. We don\'t know if it actually\napplies to reality, we don\'t know if anything in the world is infinite.\n\n>It wouldn\'t be able to\n>comprehend what reality is like for the programmer, because that would\n>require an infinite memory or whatever because reality is continuous and\n>based on infinietely small units- no units.\n\nYou don\'t know if the universe is actually continuous. Continuum is another\nmathematical concept (based on infinity) used to explain things in a certain\nway.\n\n>Because humans do not know what infinite is. We call it something\n>beyond numbers. We call it endless, but we do not know what it is.\n\nI have a pretty good idea of what infinity is. It\'s a man-made concept, and\nlike many man-made concepts, it has evolved through time. Ancient Greeks had\na different understanding of it.\n\n>So, we can call Allah infinitely powerful, knowledgeable, etc.., yet we\n>cannot imagine what Allah actually is, because we just cannot imagine\n>what it is like to be infinite.\n\nPrecicely. We don\'t even know if infinity applies to reality.\n\n-- \nSami Aario | "Can you see or measure an atom? Yet you can explode\na137490@cc.tut.fi | one. Sunlight is comprised of many atoms."\n-------------------\' "Your stupid minds! Stupid, stupid!"\nEros in "Plan 9 From Outer Space" DISCLAIMER: I don\'t agree with Eros.\n',
'From: dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer)\nSubject: Re: Is MSG sensitivity superstition?\nOrganization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA\nLines: 22\n\nIn article <myers.735287742@peach.cs.scarolina.edu> myers@cs.scarolina.edu (Daniel Myers) writes:\n>I am under the impression that MSG "enhances" flavor by causing the\n>taste buds to swell.\n\nNo, that\'s not how it works.\n\n>If this is correct, I do not find it unreasonable\n>to assume that high doses of MSG can cause other mouth tissues to swell.\n\nThis may be through a different mechanism.\n\n>Also, as the many of the occurances (including two of the above)\n>involved beef, and as beef is frequently tenderized with MSG, this is\n>what I suspect as being the cause.\n\nTenderizing beef involves sprinking or marinading it in papain, an enzyme.\n"Meat tenderizer" packets might contain papain and MSG and seasonings, but\nMSG doesn\'t act as a tenderizer.\n\n-- \nSteve Dyer\ndyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer\n',
'Organization: Penn State University\nFrom: <MVS104@psuvm.psu.edu>\nSubject: Re: <Political Atheists?\nDistribution: world\n <1pan4f$b6j@fido.asd.sgi.com> <1q0fngINNahu@gap.caltech.edu>\n <C5C9FA.6zH@acsu.buffalo.edu> <1qabe7INNaff@gap.caltech.edu>\n <1993Apr15.150938.975@news.wesleyan.edu>\nLines: 11\n\nIn article <1993Apr15.150938.975@news.wesleyan.edu>, SSAUYET@eagle.wesleyan.edu\n(SCOTT D. SAUYET) says:\n\n>Are these his final words? (And how many here would find that\n>appropriate?) Or is it just that finals got in the way?\n\n>Keep your fingers crossed!\n\nWhy should I keep my fingers crossed? I doubt it would do anything. :)\n\nMartin Schulte\n',
'From: cb@wixer.bga.com (Cyberspace Buddha)\nSubject: Re: CView answers\nKeywords: Stupid Programming\nOrganization: Real/Time Communications\nLines: 15\n\nrenew@blade.stack.urc.tue.nl (Rene Walter) writes:\n>over where it places its temp files: it just places them in its\n>"current directory".\n\nI have to beg to differ on this point, as the batch file I use\nto launch cview cd\'s to the dir where cview resides and then\ninvokes it. every time I crash cview, the 0-byte temp file\nis found in the root dir of the drive cview is on.\n\njust my $0.13,\ncb\n-- \n Cyberspace Buddha { Why are you looking for more knowledge when you } /(o\\\n cb@wixer.bga.com \\ do not pay attention to what you already know? / \\o)/\n cb@wixer.cactus.org } "get out of my chair!" -- Hillary to god { peace...\n',
"From: roell@informatik.tu-muenchen.de (Thomas Roell)\nSubject: Re: 24 bit Graphics cards\nIn-Reply-To: rjs002c@parsec.paradyne.com's message of Wed, 14 Apr 1993 21:59:34 GMT\nOrganization: Inst. fuer Informatik, Technische Univ. Muenchen, Germany\nLines: 20\n\n>I am looking for EISA or VESA local bus graphic cards that support at least \n>1024x786x24 resolution. I know Matrox has one, but it is very\n>expensive. All the other cards I know of, that support that\n>resoultion, are striaght ISA. \n\nWhat about the ELSA WINNER4000 (S3 928, Bt485, 4MB, EISA), or the\nMetheus Premier-4VL (S3 928, Bt485, 4MB, ISA/VL) ?\n\n>Also are there any X servers for a unix PC that support 24 bits?\n\nAs it just happens, SGCS has a Xserver (X386 1.4) that does\n1024x768x24 on those cards. Please email to info@sgcs.com for more\ndetails.\n\n- Thomas\n--\n-------------------------------------------------------------------------------\nDas Reh springt hoch, \t\t\t\te-mail: roell@sgcs.com\ndas Reh springt weit,\t\t\t\t#include <sys/pizza.h>\nwas soll es tun, es hat ja Zeit ...\n",
"From: sandvik@newton.apple.com (Kent Sandvik)\nSubject: Re: Free Moral Agency and Kent S.\nOrganization: Cookamunga Tourist Bureau\nLines: 19\n\nIn article <healta.140.734925835@saturn.wwc.edu>, healta@saturn.wwc.edu\n(Tammy R Healy) wrote:\n> At the time Ezekiel was written, Israel was in apostacy again and if I'm not \n> mistaken, Tyre was about to make war on Israel. Like I said, the Prince of \n> Tyre was the human ruler of Tyre. He was a wicked man. By calling Satan \n> the King of Tyre, Ezekiel was saying that Satan is the real ruler over Tyre.\n\nTammy, is this all explicitly stated in the bible, or do you assume\nthat you know that Ezekiel indirectly mentioned? It could have been\nanother metaphor, for instance Ezekiel was mad at his landlord, so he\ntalked about him when he wrote about the prince of Tyre.\n\nSorry, but my interpretation is more mundane, Ezekiel wrote about \nthe prince of Tyre when we wrote about the prince of Tyre.\n \nCheers,\nKent\n---\nsandvik@newton.apple.com. ALink: KSAND -- Private activities on the net.\n",
'From: fulk@cs.rochester.edu (Mark Fulk)\nSubject: Re: Science and methodology (was: Homeopathy ... tradition?)\nOrganization: University of Rochester\n\nIn article <C5Kv7p.JM3@unx.sas.com> sasghm@theseus.unx.sas.com (Gary Merrill) writes:\n>\n>In article <1993Apr15.200344.28013@cs.rochester.edu>, fulk@cs.rochester.edu (Mark Fulk) writes:\n>What is wrong with the above observation is that it explicitly gives the\n>impression (and you may not in fact hold this view) that the common (perhaps\n>even the "correct") approach for a scientist to follow is to sit around\n>having flights of fancy and scheming on the basis of his jealousies and\n>petty hatreds.\n\nFlights of fancy, and other irrational approaches, are common. The crucial\nthing is not to sit around just having fantasies; they aren\'t of any use\nunless they make you do some experiments. I\'ve known a lot of scientists\nwhose fantasies lead them on to creative work; usually they won\'t admit\nout loud what the fantasy was, prior to the consumption of a few beers.\n\n(Simple example: Warren Jelinek noticed an extremely heavy band on a DNA\nelectrophoresis gel of human ALU fragments. He got very excited, hoping that\nhe\'d seen some essential part of the control mechanism for eukaryotic\ngenes. This fantasy led him to sequence samples of the band and carry out\nbinding assays. The result was a well-conserved, 400 or so bp, sequence\nthat occurs about 500,000 times in the human genome. Unfortunately for\nWarren\'s fantasy, it turns out to be a transposon that is present in\nso many copies because it replicates itself and copies itself back into\nthe genome. On the other hand, the characteristics of transposons were\nmuch elucidated; the necessity of a cellular reverse transcriptase was\nrecognized; and the standard method of recognizing human DNA was created.\nOther species have different sets of transposons. Fortunately for me,\nWarren and I used to eat dinner at T.G.I. Fridays all the time.)\n\n>It further at least implicitly advances the position that\n>sciences goes "forward" (and it is not clear what this means given the\n>context in which it occurs) by generating in a completely non-rational\n>and even random way a plethora of hypotheses and theories that are then\n>weeded out via the "critical function" of science.\n\nI\'m not sure that it\'s random. But there is no known rational mechanism\nfor generating a rich set of interesting hypotheses. If you are really\nworking in an unknown area, it is unlikely that you will have much sense\nof what might or might not be true; under those circumstances, the best\nthing to do is just follow whatever instincts you have. If they are wrong,\nyou will find out soon enough; but at least, you will find out _something_.\nIf you try to do experiments at random, with no prior conceptions at all\nin mind, you will probably get nowhere.\n\n>(Though why this critical\n>function should be less subject to the non-rational forces is a mystery.\n\nUnfortunately, the critical function does sometimes become hostage to\nnon-rational forces. Then we get varieties of pathological science:\nLysenko, Mirsky\'s opposition to DNA-as-gene, cold fusion, and so forth.\n\n>If experimental design, hypotheses creation, and theory construction are\n>subject to jealousies and petty hatreds, then this must be equally true\n>of the application of any "critical function" concerning replication.\n>This is what leads one (ala Feyerabend) to an "anything goes" view.)\n\nI don\'t agree that this follows. In fact, this is _exactly_ the point at\nwhich I disagree with Feyerabend. It is a most important part of the\nculture of science that one keeps one\'s jealousies out of the refereeing\nprocess. Failures there are aplenty, but, on the whole, things work out.\n\nAnother point: there are a couple of senses of the phrase ``experimental\ndesign\'\'. I\'d say that the less rational part is in experimental _choice_,\nnot design. Alexander Fleming (Proc. Royal Soc., 1922) chose to look for\nbacteriophage in his own mucus for strange reasons (Phage had previously\nbeen found in locust diarrhea; Fleming probably thought runny bottom, runny\nnose, what the hell, it\'s worth a try.) but his method of looking for phage\nwas well-designed to detect anything phage-like; in fact, he found lysozyme.\n\n>True, the generation part *can* be totally irrational. But typically it is\n>*not*. Anecdotes concerning instances where a hypothesis seems to have\n>resulted in some way from a dream or from one\'s political views simply\n>do not generalize well to the actual history of science.\n\nIt is not clear to me what you mean by rational vs. irrational. Perhaps\nyou can give a few examples of surprising experiments that were tried out\nfor perfectly rational reasons, or interesting new theories that were first\nadvanced from logical grounds. The main examples I can think of are from\nmodern high-energy physics which is not typical of science as a whole.\n-- \nMark A. Fulk\t\t\tUniversity of Rochester\nComputer Science Department\tfulk@cs.rochester.edu\n',
'From: geb@cs.pitt.edu (Gordon Banks)\nSubject: Re: Medication For Parkinsons\nReply-To: geb@cs.pitt.edu (Gordon Banks)\nOrganization: Univ. of Pittsburgh Computer Science\nLines: 15\n\nIn article <19621.3049.uupcb@factory.com> jim.zisfein@factory.com (Jim Zisfein) writes:\n\n>If you want to throw around names, Drs. Donald Calne, Terry Elizan,\n>and Jesse Cedarbaum don\'t recommend selegiline (not to mention Dr.\n>William Landau).\n>\n\nGosh, Jesse is that famous now? He was my intern. Landau not liking\nit makes me like it out of spite. (Just kidding, Bill). \n\n-- \n----------------------------------------------------------------------------\nGordon Banks N3JXP | "Skepticism is the chastity of the intellect, and\ngeb@cadre.dsl.pitt.edu | it is shameful to surrender it too soon." \n----------------------------------------------------------------------------\n',
'From: fulk@cs.rochester.edu (Mark Fulk)\nSubject: Re: Breech Baby Info Needed\nOrganization: University of Rochester\nLines: 89\n\nIn article <1993Apr5.151818.27409@trentu.ca> xtkmg@trentu.ca (Kate Gregory) writes:\n>In article <1993Apr3.161757.19612@cs.rochester.edu> fulk@cs.rochester.edu (Mark Fulk) writes:\n>>\n>>Another uncommon problem is maternal hemorrhage. I don\'t remember the\n>>incidence, but it is something like 1 in 1,000 or 10,000 births. It is hard\n>>to see how you could handle it at home, and you wouldn\'t have very much time.\n>>\n>>thing you might consider is that people\'s risk tradeoffs vary. I consider\n>>a 1/1,000 risk of loss of a loved one to require considerable effort in\n>>the avoiding.\n>\n>Mark, you seem to be terrified of the birth process\n\nThat\'s ridiculous!\n\n>and unable to\n>believe that women\'s bodies are actually designed to do it.\n\nThey aren\'t designed, they evolved. And, much as it discomforts us, in\nhumans a trouble-free birth process was sacrificed to increased brain and\ncranial size. Wild animals have a much easier time with birth than humans do.\nDomestic horses and cows typically have a worse time. To give you an idea:\nmy family tree is complicated because a few of my pioneer great-great-\ngrandfathers had several wives, and we never could figure out which wife\nhad each child. One might ask why this happened. My great-great-\ngrandfathers were, by the time they reached their forties, quite prosperous\nfarmers. Nonetheless, they lost several wives each to the rigors of\nchildbirth; the graveyards in Spencer, Indiana, and Boswell, North Dakota,\ncontain quite a few gravestones like "Ida, wf. of Jacob Liptrap, and\nbaby, May 6, 1853."\n\n>You wanted\n>to section all women carrying breech in case one in a hundred or a\n>thousand breech babies get hung up in second stage,\n\nMore like one in ten. And the consequences can be devastating; I have\ndirect experience of more than a dozen victims of a fouled-up breech birth.\n\n>and now you want\n>all babies born in hospital based on a guess of how likely maternal\n>hemorrhage is and a false belief that it is fatal.\n\nIt isn\'t always fatal. But it is often fatal, when it happens out of\nreach of adequate help. More often, it permanently damages one\'s health.\n\nClearly women\'s bodies _evolved_ to give birth (I am no believer in divine\ndesign); however, evolution did not favor trouble-free births for humans. \n\n>You have your kids where you want. You encourage your wife to\n>get six inch holes cut through her stomach muscles, expose herself\n>to anesthesia and infection, and whatever other "just in case" measures\n>you think are necessary.\n\nMy, aren\'t we wroth! I haven\'t read a more outrageous straw man attack\nin months! I can practically see your mouth foam.\n\nWe\'re statistically sophisticated enough to balance the risks. Although\nI can\'t produce exact statistics 5 years after the last time we looked\nthem up, rest assured that we balanced C-section risks against other risks.\nI wouldn\'t encourage my wife to have a Caesarean unless it was clearly\nindicated; on the other hand, I am opposed (on obvious grounds) to waiting\nuntil an emergency to give in.\n\nAnd bear this in mind: my wife took the lead in all of these decisions.\nWe talked things over, and I did a lot of the leg work, but the main\ndecisions were really hers.\n\n>But I for one am bothered by your continued\n>suggestions, especially to the misc.kidders pregnant for the first\n>time, that birth is dangerous, even fatal, and that all these\n>unpleasant things are far better than the risks you run just doing\n>it naturally.\n\nI don\'t know of very many home birth advocates, even, that think that\na first-time mother should have her baby at home.\n\n>I\'m no Luddite. I\'ve had a section. I\'m planning a hospital birth\n>this time. But for heaven\'s sake, not everyone needs that!\n\nBut people should bother to find out the relative risks. My wife was\nunwilling to take any significant risks in order to have nice surroundings.\nIn view of the intensity of the birth experience, I doubt surroundings\nhave much importance anyway. Somehow the values you\'re advocating seem\nall lopsided to me: taking risks, even if fairly small, of serious\npermanent harm in order to preserve something that is, after all,\nan esthetic consideration.\n-- \nMark A. Fulk\t\t\tUniversity of Rochester\nComputer Science Department\tfulk@cs.rochester.edu\n',
"From: alex@falcon.demon.co.uk (Alex Kiernan)\nSubject: Re: .SCF files, help needed \nDistribution: world\nOrganization: DIS(organised)\nReply-To: alex@falcon.demon.co.uk\nX-Newsreader: Simple NEWS 1.90 (ka9q DIS 1.21)\nLines: 14\n\nIn article <1993Apr22.123832.23894@daimi.aau.dk> rued@daimi.aau.dk writes:\n\n>RIX's files with the extension .sci and .scf are just a RAW file with\n>a 256 color palette.\n>...stuff deleted...\n>regards\n>Thomas \n>\n\nDo you happen to know what a .SCO RIX file is?\n\n-- \nAlex Kiernan\nakiernan@falcon.demon.co.uk\n",
'From: maridai@comm.mot.com (Marida Ignacio)\nSubject: Re: Every Lent He suffers to save us\nOrganization: trunking_fixed\nLines: 17\n\nCorrection:\n\n |The story I related is one of the seven apparitions\n |approved by our Church as worthy of belief. It happened\n |in La Salle, France.\n ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^\n\nThat should be La Salette, France, 1846.\nI must admit, geography is not my forte.\n\n |[...]\n\n |Once again, the Lamb succeeds.\n\n-Marida\n "...spreading God\'s words through actions..."\n -Mother Teresa\n',
"From: vilok@bmerh322.bnr.ca (Vilok Kusumakar)\nSubject: Future of methanol\nReply-To: vilok@bnr.ca\nOrganization: Bell-Northern Research, Ottawa, Canada\nLines: 23\n\nI hope this is the correct newsgroup for this.\n\nWhat is the scoop on Methanol and its future as an alternative fuel for\nvehicles ? How does it compare to ethanol ?\n\nThere was some news about health risks involved. Anybody know about\nthat. How does the US Clean Air act impact the use of Methanol by the\nyear 1995 ?\n\nI think its Methyl Tertiary butyl ether which the future industries will\nuse as a substitute for conventional fuels.\n\nThere is company Methanex which produces 12% of the world's supply of\nMethanol. Does anybody know about it ?\n\nPlease reply by e-mail as I do not read these newsgroups.\n\nThanks in advance.\n--\nVilok Kusumakar OSI Protocols for tomorrow......\nvilok@bnr.ca Bell-Northern Research, Ltd.\nPhone: (613) 763-2273 P.O. Box 3511, Station C \nFax: (613) 765-4777 Ottawa, Ontario, K1Y 4H7\n",
'From: osprey@ux4.cso.uiuc.edu (Lucas Adamski)\nSubject: Re: Fast polygon routine needed\nKeywords: polygon, needed\nOrganization: University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign\nLines: 19\n\nIn article <7306@pdxgate.UUCP> idr@rigel.cs.pdx.edu (Ian D Romanick) writes:\n>What kind of polygons? Shaded? Texturemapped? Hm? More comes into play with\n>fast routines than just "polygons". It would be nice to know exaclty what\n>system (VGA is a start, but what processor?) and a few of the specifics of the\n>implementation. You need to give more info if you want to get any answers! :P\n\nI don\'t want texture mapped, cause if I did I\'d asked for them. :) Just\na simple and fast routine to do filled polygons. As for the processor, it\'d\nbe for a minimum of a 286... maybe 386 if I can\'t find a good one for 286s.\nIdeally, I want a polyn function that can clip to a user-defined viewport,\nand write to an arbitrary location in memory. Of course the chances of\nfinding something like that are pretty remote, so I guess I\'d need the source\nwith it. Oh, and I guess it would need to be in ASM otherwise it\'d be too\nslow. I\'ve seen some polygon routines in C, and they\'ve all been waaay too\nslow. Its for a 3D vector graphics program. I\'ve been hunting high and low\nfor a polyn function in ASM, and I can\'t find one anywhere that I can use.\nI\'ve found one or two polyn functions, but my ASM is pretty bad, so I won\'t\neven try to rewrite them. :)\n\t\t//Lucas.\n',
'From: af664@yfn.ysu.edu (Frank DeCenso, Jr.)\nSubject: MAJOR VIEWS OF THE TRINITY\nOrganization: Youngstown State/Youngstown Free-Net\nLines: 224\n\n[With Frank\'s permission, I have added some information here (and in\none case changed the order of his contributions) in order to clarify\nthe historical relationship of the views. My comments are based\nprimarily on William Rusch\'s historical summary in "The Trinitarian\nControversy", Fortress. I\'m going to save this as an FAQ. --clh]\n\nMAJOR VIEWS OF THE TRINITY\n \n[SECOND CENTURY\n\nThe writers of the 2nd Cent. are important, because they set up much\nof the context for the later discussions. Justin Martyr, Aristides,\nAthenagoras, Tatian, and Theophilus of Antioch are known as the\n"Apologists". Their theology has often been described as "Logos\ntheology". Based strongly on wording in John, they took more or less\na two-phase approach. Through eternity, the Logos was with the\nFather, as his mind or thought. This "immanent Word" became\n"expressed" as God revealed himself in history, ultimately in Jesus.\nThus Jesus\' full distinction from the Father only became visible in\nhistory, though the Logos had been present in God from eternity.\nRusch regards this view is containing many of the emphases of the\nfinal orthodox position, but in a form which is less sophisticated,\nbecause it did not have the technical language to properly deal with\nthe eternal plurality in the Godhead.\n\nIrenaeus held views somewhat similar to the Apologists. However he\nwas uncomfortable with the two-stage approach. He still viewed God as\none personage, with distinctions that did not become fully visible\nexcept through his process of self-revelation (the "economy"). The\ndistinctions are present in his essential nature. Irenaeus emphasized\nthe Holy Spirit more than the Apologists. Irenaeus\' views should\nprobably be called "economic trinitarianism", though that term is\nnormally used (as below) to refer to later developments.\n\n\nTHIRD CENTURY\n\n--clh]\n\nDynamic Monarchianism\n \nSource: Theodotus\nAdherents: Paul of Samosota, Artemon, Socinus, Modern Unitarians\nPerception of God\'s Essence: The unity of God denotes both oneness of nature\nand oneness of person. The Son and the Holy Spirit therefore are\nconsubstantial with the Father\'s divine essence only as impersonal attributes.\nThe divine dunamis came upon the man Jesus, but he was not God in the strict\nsense of the word.\nPerception of God\'s Subsistence: The notion of a subsistent God is a palpable\nimpossibility, since his perfect unity is perfectly indivisible. The\n\'diversity\' of God is apparent and not real, since the Christ event and the\nwork of the Holy Spirit attest only to a dynamic operation within God, not to\na hypostatic union.\nAsignation of Deity/Eternality:\n Father: Unique originator of the universe. He is eternal, self-existent, and\nwithout beginning or end.\n Son: A virtuous (but finite) man in whose life God was dynamically present in\na unique way; Christ definitely was not deity though his humanity was deified.\n Holy Spirit: An impersonal attribute of the Godhead. No deity or eternality\nis ascribed to the Holy Spirit.\nCriticism(s): Elevates reason above the witness of biblical revelation\nconcerning the Trinity. Categorically denies the deity of Christ and of the\nHoly Spirit, thereby undermining the theological undergirding for the biblical\ndoctrine of salvation.\n[In summary, this probably best thought of as not being Trinitarianism\nat all. God is an undifferentiated one. Son and Holy Spirit are seen\nas simply names for the man Jesus and the grace of God active in the\nChurch. --clh]\n\n \nModalistic Monarchianism\n \nSource: Praxeas\nAdherents: Noatus, Sabellius, Swedenborg, Scleiermacher, United Pentecostals\n(Jesus Only)\nPerception of God\'s Essence: The unity of God is ultra-simplex. He is\nqualitatively characterized in his essence by one nature and person. This\nessence may be designated interchangeably as Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.\nThey are different names for but identical with the unified, simplex God. The\nthree names are the three modes by which God reveals Himself.\nPerception of God\'s Subsistence: The concept of a subsistent God is erroneous\nand confounds the real issue of the phenomenon of God\'s modalistic manifesting\nof himself. The paradox of a subsisting "three in oneness" is refuted by\nrecognizing that God is not three persons but one person with three different\nnames and corresponding roles following one another like parts of a drama.\nAsignation of Deity/Eternality:\n Father: Fully God and fully eternal as the primal mode or manifestation of\nthe only unique and unitary God\n Son: Full deity/eternality ascribed only in the sense of his being another\nmode of the one God and identical with his essence. he is the same God\nmanifested in temporal sequence specific to a role (incarnation).\n Holy Spirit: Eternal God only as the tile designates the phase in which the\none God, in temporal sequence, manifested himself pursuant to the role of\nregeneration and sanctification.\nCriticism(s): Depersonalizes the Godhead. To compensate for its Trinitarian\ndeficiencies, this view propounds ideas that are clearly heretical. Its\nconcept of successive manifestations of the Godhead cannot account for such\nsimultaneous appearances of the three persons as at Christ\'s baptism.\n[Rusch comments that evidence on these beliefs is sketchy. There are\nactually two slightly different groups included: Noetus and his\nfollowers, and Sabellius. Noetus was apparently more extreme.\nSabellius followed him, and attempted to use some features of economic\nTrinitarianism to create a more sophisticated view. Unfortunately,\ninformation about Sabellius comes from a century later, and there\nseems to be some confusion between him and Marcellus of Ancyra. --clh]\n \n[I\'ve moved the following description to be with the other\nthird-century views. It originally appeared near the end. --clh]\n\n"Economic" Trinitarianism\n \nSource: Hippolytus, Tertullian\nAdherents: Various "neo-economic" Trinitarians\nPerception of God\'s Essence: The Godhead is characterized by triunity: Father,\nSon, and Holy Spirit are the three manifestations of one identical,\nindivisible substance. The perfect unity and consubstantiality are especially\ncomprehended in such manifest Triadic deeds as creation and redemption.\nPerception of God\'s Subsistence: Subsistence within the Godhead is articulated\nby means of such terms as "distinction" and "distribution" dispelling\neffectively the notion of separateness or division.\nAsignation of Deity/Eternality:\nThe equal deity of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit is clearly elucidated in\nobservation of the simultaneous relational/operational features of the\nGodhead. Co-eternality, at times, does not intelligibly surface in this\nambiguous view, but it seems to be a logical implication.\nCriticism(s): Is more tentative and ambiguous in its treatment of the\nrelational aspect of the Trinity.\n[Note that this is a development of the Apologists and Irenaeus, as\nmentioned above. As with them, the threeness is visible primarily in\nthe various ways that God revealed himself in history. However they\ndid say that this is a manifestation of a plurality that is somehow\npresent in the Godhead from the beginning. Tertullian talks of\nthe Father, Son, and Holy Spirit as being three that are one in\nsubstance. Many people regard this view as being essentially\northodox, but with less developed philosophical categories. --clh]\n\n[Origen, developing further an approach started by Clement, attempted\nto apply neo-Platonism to Christian thought. He set many of the terms\nof the coming battle. In Platonic fashion, he sees the Son as a\nmediator, mediating between the absolute One of God and the plurality\nof creating beings. The Son is generated, but he is "eternally\ngenerated". That is, the relationship between Father and Son is\neternal. It cannot be said that "there was once when he was not" (a\nphrase that will haunt the discussion for centuries). Having the Son\nis intrinsic to his concept of God. The Father and Son are described\nas separate "hypostases", though this may not have quite the meaning\nof separate subsistence that it had in some contexts. The union is\none of love and action, but there is some reason to think that he may\nhave used the term homoousios ("of the same substance"). The Holy\nSpirit is also an active, personal substance, originated by the Father\nthrough the Son. Origen\'s intent is trinitarian, not tritheistic, but\nhe pushes things in the direction of separateness.\n\n\nFOURTH CENTURY\n\n--clh]\n\nSubordinationism [often called Arianism --clh]\n \nSource: Arius\nMajor Adherents: Modern Jehovah\'s Witnesses, and several other lesser known\ncults\nPerception of God\'s Essence: The inherent oneness of God\'s nature is properly\nidentifiable with the Father only. The Son and the Holy Spirit are discreet\nentities who do not share the divine essence.\nPerception of God\'s Subsistence: The unipersonal essence of God precludes the\nconcept of divine subsistence with a Godhead. "Threeness in oneness" is self-\ncontradictory and violates biblical principles of a monotheistic God.\nAsignation of Deity/Eternality:\n Father: The only one, unbegotten God who is eternal and without beginning.\n Son: A created being and therefore not eternal. Though he is to be venerated,\nhe is not of the divine essence.\n Holy Spirit: A nonpersonal, noneternal emanation of the Father. He is viewed\nas an influence, an expression of God. Deity is not ascribed to him.\nCriticism(s): It is at variance with abundant scriptural testimony respecting\nthe deity of both Christ and the Holy Spirit. Its hierarchial concept likewise\nasserts three essentially separate persons with regard to the Father, Christ,\nand the Holy Spirit. This results in a totally confused soteriology.\n[Note also that in most versions of this view, the Son is not fully\nhuman either. He is supernatural and sinless. That distinguishes this\nview from adoptionism. --clh]\n \nOrthodox Trinitarianism\n \nSource: Athanasius\nAdherents: Basil, Gregory of Nyssa, Gregory of Nazianzus, Augustine, Thomas\nAquinas, Luther, Calvin, Contemporary orthodox Christianity\nPerception of God\'s Essence: God\'s being is perfectly unified and simplex: of\none essence. This essence of deity is held in common by Father, Son, and Holy\nSpirit. The three persons are consubstantial, coinherent, co-equal, and co-\neternal.\nPerception of God\'s Subsistence: The divine subsistence is said to occur in\nthree modes of being or hypostases. As such, the Godhead exists "undivided in\ndivided persons." This view contemplates an identity in nature and cooperation\nin function without the denial of distinctions of persons in the Godhead.\nAsignation of Deity/Eternality:\nIn its final distillation, this view unhesitatingly sets forth Father, Son,\nand Holy Spirit as co-equal and co-eternal in the Godhead with regard to both\nthe divine essence and function.\nCriticism(s): The only shortcoming has to do with the limitations inherent in\nhuman language and thought itself: the impossibility of totally describing the\nineffable mystery of "three in oneness."\n[At least in the 4th Cent, there were several different approaches, all\nof which fit the description here, and all regarded as orthodox, but which\nare somewhat different in detail. Nicea was originally held to respond\nto Arius. Arius can be thought of as carrying Origen\'s thought a bit\ntoo far, to the point of making the Son a separate entity. In general\nthe East tended to take an approach based on Origen\'s, and it was hard\nto get acceptance of Nicea in the East. Its final acceptance was\nbased on the work of Athanasius with the Cappadocians: Gregory of Nyssa and\nGregory of Nazianzus, among others. While starting with three,\nthey show that their unity in nature and and action is such that one\nmust think of them as being a single God. This allowed the Council\nof Constantinople, in 381, to get wide agreement on the idea of\nthree hypostatese and one ousia. --clh]\n\nAdapted from _Charts of Christian Theology and Doctrine_, by H. Wayne House.\n\n\nFrank\n-- \n"If one wished to contend with Him, he could not answer Him one time out\n of a thousand." JOB 9:3\n',
"From: naren@tekig1.PEN.TEK.COM (Naren Bala)\nSubject: Re: Theists posting\nOrganization: Tektronix, Inc., Beaverton, OR.\nLines: 21\n\nIn article <C4ux99.AIC@ra.nrl.navy.mil> khan@itd.itd.nrl.navy.mil (Umar Khan) writes:\n\nStuff deleted \n\n>Is there a concordance for the FAQ? WHich translation is considered\n>most authoritative? Is there an orthodox commentary for the FAQ\n>available? Is there one FAQ for militant atheists and another for\n>moderate atheists; or, do you all read from the same FAQ? If so,\n>how do you resolve differences of interpretation?\n\nHmmmmmmmmmmmm............................................. \nI can put the same question to followers of any religion. How do you\nMoslems resolve differences of opinion ?? Don't tell me that there\nis one interpretation of the Quran. Read the soc.culture.* newsgroups.\nYou will zillions of different interpretations.\n\n-- Naren\nnaren@TEKIG1.PEN.TEK.COM \n\nAll standard disclaimers apply\n\n",
'From: mike@nx39.mik.uky.edu (Mike Mattone)\nSubject: Re: sex education\nOrganization: University Of Kentucky, Dept. of Math Sciences\nLines: 17\n\nRegarding the moral question Jen (jenk@microsoft.com) asked: "Is it\nokay to create a child if you aren\'t able to be a good parent?", I\nam reminded of a "speech" by one of the characters (I can\'t remember\nwhich) in the movie "Parenthood". [I am WAY to liberal with my\nquotation marks tonight...]\n\nIn this so-called (by me) speech, the character is expressing what \na lousy father he had and he made an interesting point. He said\nsomething to the effect of:\n"You have to have a license to drive a car. You have to have a\nlicense to own a dog. You even have to have a license to fish.\nBut, they\'ll anyone have a kid." [Keep in mind that I am, in NO\nway, trying to pass this off as a quote. It is probably GROSSLY\ndistorted but I think you get the point...]\n\n-Mike Mattone\n \n',
"From: gchin@ssf.Eng.Sun.COM (Gary Chin)\nSubject: National Day of Prayer,5/6/93\nReply-To: gchin@ssf.Eng.Sun.COM\nOrganization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.\nLines: 20\n\nThis is an annual time of prayer organized by the Focus on the Family\norganization. If you have not heard about it on your Christian radio\nstation or at your local church, call them and they may be able to\ngive you the information.\n\nMany cities in the San Francisco bay area have local coordinators\norganizing the time and the place to meet to pray. In San Francisco,\nOakland, Berkeley, San Jose, people will be meeting at ~12:15pm at\neach city's City Hall.\n\nLast year, I attended at the Mountain View city hall. It was a very\nquiet and meaningful time of prayer.\n\n|-------------------|\n| Gary Chin |\n| Staff Engineer |\n| Sun Microsystems |\n| Mt. View, CA |\n| gchin@Eng.Sun.Com |\n|-------------------|\n",
'From: bluelobster+@cmu.edu (David O Hunt)\nSubject: Re: Serbian genocide Work of God?\nOrganization: Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA\nLines: 24\n\nOn 23-Apr-93 in Serbian genocide Work of God?\nuser James Sledd@ssdc.sas.upe writes:\n>Are the governments of the United States and Europe not moving\n>to end the ethnic cleansing by the Serbs because the targets are\n>muslims?\n\nBingo - that and there\'s no oil there.\n\nOn 23-Apr-93 in Serbian genocide Work of God?\nuser James Sledd@ssdc.sas.upe writes:\n>Are the Serbs doing the work of God? Hmm...\n\nIf this is the "work of god" then I\'m doubly glad that I don\'t worship him.\n\n\n\nDavid Hunt - Graduate Slave | My mind is my own. | Towards both a\nMechanical Engineering | So are my ideas & opinions. | Palestinian and\nCarnegie Mellon University | <<<Use Golden Rule v2.0>>> | Jewish homeland!\n====T=H=E=R=E===I=S===N=O===G=O=D=========T=H=E=R=E===I=S===N=O===G=O=D=====\nEmail: bluelobster+@cmu.edu Working towards my "Piled Higher and Deeper"\n\nIt will be a great day when scientists and engineers have all the R&D money\nthey need and religions have to beg for money to pay the priest.\n',
'From: bmdelane@midway.uchicago.edu (brian manning delaney)\nSubject: RESULT: sci.life-extension passes 237:28\nOrganization: University of Chicago\nLines: 284\nNNTP-Posting-Host: rodan.uu.net\n\nThe vote to create the proposed group, Sci.life-extension, was\naffirmative.\n\nYes votes: 237.\nNo votes: 28.\n\nWhat follows is a list of the people who voted, by vote ("no" or "yes").\n\nHere are the people who voted NO:\n\nbailey@utpapa.ph.utexas.edu (Ed Bailey)\nbarkdoll@lepomis.psych.upenn.edu (Edwin Barkdoll)\nmsb@sq.com (Mark Brader)\ncarr@acsu.buffalo.edu (Dave Carr)\ndesj@ccr-p.ida.org (David desJardins)\njbh@Anat.UMSMed.Edu (James B. Hutchins)\nrsk@gynko.circ.upenn.edu (Rich Kulawiec)\nstu@valinor.mythical.com (Stu Labovitz)\nlau@ai.sri.com (Stephen Lau)\nplebrun@minf8.vub.ac.be (Philippe Lebrun)\njmaynard@nyx.cs.du.edu (Jay Maynard)\nemcguire@intellection.com (Ed McGuire)\nrick@crick.ssctr.bcm.tmc.edu (Richard H. Miller)\nsmarry@zooid.guild.org (Marc Moorcroft)\ndmosher@nyx.cs.du.edu (David Mosher)\nejo@kaja.gi.alaska.edu (Eric J. Olson)\nhmpetro@mosaic.uncc.edu (Herbert M Petro)\nsmith-una@YALE.EDU (Una Smith)\nmmt@RedBrick.COM (Maxime Taksar KC6ZPS)\nurlichs@smurf.sub.org (Matthias Urlichs)\nac999266@umbc.edu (a Francis Uy)\nwerner@SOE.Berkeley.Edu (John Werner)\nwick@netcom.com (Potter Wickware)\nggw@wolves.Durham.NC.US (Gregory G. Woodbury)\nD.W.Wright@bnr.co.uk (D. Wright)\nyarvin-norman@CS.YALE.EDU (Norman Yarvin)\nask@cblph.att.com\nspm2d@opal.cs.virginia.edu\n\nHere are the people who voted YES:\n\nFSSPR@ACAD3.ALASKA.EDU (Hardcore Alaskan)\nkalex@eecs.umich.edu (Ken Alexander)\nph600fht@sdcc14.UCSD.EDU (Alex Aumann)\nfranklin.balluff@Syntex.Com (Franklin Balluff)\nbarash@umbc.edu (Mr. Steven Barash)\nbuild@alan.b30.ingr.com (Alan Barksdale (build))\nlion@TheRat.Kludge.COM (John H. Barlow)\npbarto@UCENG.UC.EDU (Paul Barto)\nryan.bayne@canrem.com (Ryan Bayne)\nmignon@shannon.Jpl.Nasa.Gov (Mignon Belongie)\nbeaudot@tirf.grenet.fr (william Beaudot)\nlavb@lise.unit.no (Olav Benum)\nross@bryson.demon.co.uk (Ross Beresford)\nben.best@canrem.com (Ben Best)\nlevi@happy-man.com (Levi Bitansky)\njsb30@dagda.Eng.Sun.COM (James Blomgren)\ngbloom@nyx.cs.du.edu (Gregory Bloom)\nmbrader@netcom.com (Mark Brader)\nebrandt@jarthur.Claremont.EDU (Eli Brandt)\ndoom@leland.stanford.edu (Joseph Brenner)\nrc@pos.apana.org.au (Robert Cardwell)\njeffjc@binkley.cs.mcgill.ca (Jeffrey CHANCE)\nsasha@cs.umb.edu (Alexander Chislenko)\nmclark@world.std.com (Maynard S Clark)\n100042.2703@CompuServe.COM ("A.J. Clifford")\ncoleman@twinsun.com (Mike Coleman)\nsteve@constellation.ecn.uoknor.edu (Steve Coltrin)\ncollier@ivory.rtsg.mot.com (John T. Collier)\ncompton@plains.NoDak.edu (Curtis M. Compton) \nbobc@master.cna.tek.com (Bob Cook)\ncordell@shaman.nexagen.com (Bruce Cordell)\ncormierj@ERE.UMontreal.CA (Cormier Jean-Marc)\ndjcoyle@macc.wisc.edu (Douglas J. Coyle)\ndass0001@student.tc.umn.edu ("John R Dassow-1")\nbdd@onion.eng.hou.compaq.com (Bruce Davis)\ndemonn@emunix.emich.edu (Kenneth Jubal DeMonn)\ndesilets@sj.ate.slb.com (Mark Desilets)\nmarkd@sco.COM (Mark Diekhans)\nkari@teracons.teracons.com (Kari Dubbelman)\nlhdsy1!cyberia.hou281.chevron.com!hwdub@uunet.UU.NET (Dub Dublin)\nwilldye@helios.unl.edu (Will Dye)\n155yegan%jove.dnet.measurex.com@juno.measurex.com (TERRY EGAN)\neder@hsvaic.boeing.com (Dani Eder)\nglenne@magenta.HQ.Ileaf.COM (Glenn Ellingson)\nfarrar@adaclabs.com (Richard Farrar)\nghsvax!hal@uunet.UU.NET (Hal Finney)\nlxfogel@srv.PacBell.COM (Lee Fogel)\nafoxx@foxxjac.b17a.ingr.com (Foxx)\ni000702@disc.dla.mil (sam frajerman,sppb,x3026,)\nmpf@medg.lcs.mit.edu (Michael P. Frank)\nMartin.Franklin@Corp.Sun.COM (Martin Franklin)\ntiff@CS.UCLA.EDU (Tiffany Frazier)\nAiling_Zhu_Freeman@U.ERGO.CS.CMU.EDU (Ailing Freeman)\nTimothy_Freeman@U.ERGO.CS.CMU.EDU (Tim Freeman)\ngt0657c@prism.gatech.edu (geoff george)\nmtvdjg@rivm.nl (Daniel Gijsbers)\nexusag@exu.ericsson.se (Serena Gilbert)\nrlglende@netcom.com (Robert Lewis Glendenning)\ngoetz@cs.Buffalo.EDU (Phil Goetz)\ngoolsby@dg-rtp.dg.com (Chris Goolsby)\ndgordon@crow.omni.co.jp (David Gordon)\nbgrahame@eris.demon.co.uk (Robert D Grahame)\nsascsg@unx.sas.com (Cynthia Grant)\ngreen@srilanka.island.COM (Robert Greenstein)\njohng@oce.orst.edu (John A. Gregor)\nroger@netcom.com (roger gregory)\nevans-ron@CS.YALE.EDU (Ron Hale-Evans)\nbrent@vpnet.chi.il.us (Brent Hansen)\nRon.G.Hay@med.umich.edu (Ron G. Hay)\nakh@empress.gvg.tek.com (Anna K. Haynes)\nclaris!qm!Bob_Hearn@ames.arc.nasa.gov (Robert Hearn)\nfheyligh@vnet3.vub.ac.be (Francis Heylighen)\nhin9@midway.uchicago.edu (P. Hindman)\nfishe@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Carwil James)\njanzen@mprgate.mpr.ca (Martin Janzen)\nkarp@skcla.monsanto.com (Jeffery M Karp)\nrk2@elsegundoca.ncr.com (Richard Kelly)\nmerklin@gnu.ai.mit.edu (Ed Kemo)\nkessner@rintintin.Colorado.EDU (KESSNER ERIC M)\nmapam@csv.warwick.ac.uk (Mr R A Khwaja)\nkoski@sunset.cs.utah.edu (Keith Koski)\nkathi@bridge.com (Kathi Kramer)\nbenkrug@jupiter.fnbc.com (Ben Krug)\nfarif@eskimo.com (David Kunz)\nedsr!edsdrd!sel@uunet.UU.NET (Steve Langs)\npa_hcl@MECENG.COE.NORTHEASTERN.EDU (Henry Leong)\nS.Linton@pmms.cam.ac.uk (Steve Linton)\nalopez@cs.ep.utexas.EDU (Alejandro Lopez 6330)\nkfl@access.digex.com ("Keith F. Lynch")\nKAMCHAR@msu.edu (Charles MacDonald)\nrob@vis.toronto.edu (Robert C. Majka)\nphil@starconn.com (Phil Marks)\ncam@jackatak.raider.net (Cameron Marshall)\nmmay@mcd.intel.com (Mike May ~)\ndrac@uumeme.chi.il.us (Bruce Maynard)\ni001269@discg2.disc.dla.mil (john mccarrick)\nxyzzy@imagen.com (David McIntyre)\ncuhes@csv.warwick.ac.uk (Malcolm McMahon)\nmcpherso@macvax.UCSD.EDU (John Mcpherson)\nmerkle@parc.xerox.com (Ralph Merkle)\neric@Synopsys.COM (Eric Messick)\npmetzger@shearson.com (Perry E. Metzger)\ngmichael@vmd.cso.uiuc.edu (Gary R. Michael)\ndat91mas@ludat.lth.se (Asker Mikael)\nMILLERL@WILMA.WHARTON.UPENN.EDU ("Loren J. Miller")\nminsky@media.mit.edu (Marvin Minsky)\npmorris@lamar.ColoState.EDU (Paul Morris)\nMark_Muhlestein@Novell.COM (Mark Muhlestein)\ndavid@staff.udc.upenn.edu (R. David Murray)\ngananney@mosaic.uncc.edu (Glenn A Nanney)\nanthony@meaddata.com (Anthony Napier)\ndniman@panther.win.net (Donald E. Niman)\nnistuk@unixg.ubc.ca (Richard Nistuk)\nJonathan@RMIT.EDU.AU (Jonathan O\'Donnell)\nmartino@gomez.Jpl.Nasa.Gov (Martin R. Olah)\ncpatil@leland.stanford.edu (Christopher Kashina Patil)\ncrp5754@erfsys01.boeing.com (Chris Payne)\nsharon@acri.fr (Sharon Peleg)\nphp@rhi.hi.is (Petur Henry Petersen)\nchrisp@efi.com (Chris Phoenix)\npierce@CS.UCLA.EDU (Brad Pierce)\njulius@math.utah.edu ("Julius Pierce")\ndplatt@cellar.org (Doug Platt)\nMitchell.Porter@lambada.oit.unc.edu (Mitchell Porter)\ncpresson@jido.b30.ingr.com (Craig Presson)\nprice@price.demon.co.uk (Michael Clive Price)\nU39554@UICVM.BITNET (Edward S. Proctor)\nstevep@deckard.Works.ti.com (Steve Pruitt)\nMJQUINN@PUCC.BITNET (Michael Quinn)\nrauss@nvl.army.mil (Patrick Rauss)\nremke@cs.tu-berlin.de ("Jan K. Remke")\nag167@yfn.ysu.edu (Barry H. Rodin)\nksackett@cs.uah.edu (Karl R. Sackett)\nrcs@cs.arizona.edu (Richard Schroeppel)\nfschulz@pyramid.com (Frank Schulz)\nkws@Thunder-Island.kalamazoo.MI.US (Karel W. Sebek)\nbseewald@gozer.idbsu.edu (Brad Seewald)\nshapard@manta.nosc.mil (Thomas D. Shapard)\nhabs@Panix.Com (Harry Shapiro)\nmuir@idiom.berkeley.ca.us (David Muir Sharnoff)\ndasher@well.sf.ca.us (D Anton Sherwood)\nzero@netcom.com (Richard Shiflett)\nAP201160@BROWNVM.BITNET (Elaine Shiner)\nrobsho@robsho.Auto-trol.COM (Robert Shock)\nrshvern@gmuvax2.gmu.edu (Rob Shvern)\nwesiegel@cie-2.uoregon.edu (William Siegel)\nggyygg@mixcom.mixcom.com (Kenton Sinner)\nbsmart@bsmart.tti.com (Bob Smart)\ntonys@ariel.ucs.unimelb.EDU.AU (Anthony David Smith)\nsgccsns@citecuc.citec.oz.au (Shayne Noel Smith)\ndsnider@beta.tricity.wsu.edu (Daniel L Snider)\nsnyderg@spot.Colorado.EDU (SNYDER GARY EDWIN JR)\nblupe@ruth.fullfeed.com (Brian Arthur Stewart)\nlhdsy1!usmi02.midland.chevron.com!tsfsi@uunet.UU.NET (Sigrid\nStewart)\nnat@netcom.com (Nathaniel Stitt)\ntps@biosym.com (Tom Stockfisch)\nstodolsk@andromeda.rutgers.edu (David Stodolsky)\ngadget@dcs.warwick.ac.uk (Steve Strong)\ncarey@CS.UCLA.EDU (Carey Sublette)\njsuttor@netcom.com (Jeff Suttor)\nswain@cernapo.cern.ch (John Swain)\nszabo@techbook.com (Nick Szabo)\nptheriau@netcom.com (P. Chris Theriault)\nak051@yfn.ysu.edu (Chris Thompson)\ngunnar.thoresen@bio.uio.no (Gunnar Thoresen)\ndreamer@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Andrew Trapp)\njerry@cse.lbl.gov (Jerry Tunis)\nmusic@parcom.ernet.in (Rajeev Upadhye)\ntreon@u.washington.edu (Treon Verdery)\nevore@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Eric J Vore)\nU13054@UICVM.BITNET (Howard Wachtel)\nsusan@wpi.WPI.EDU (Susan C Wade)\n70023.3041@CompuServe.COM (Paul Wakfer)\newalker@it.berklee.edu ("Elaine Walker")\njew@rt.sunquest.com (James Ward)\njeremy@ai.mit.edu (Jeremy M. Wertheimer)\nbw@ws029.torreypinesca.NCR.COM (Bruce White 3807)\nweeds@strobe.ATC.Olivetti.Com (Mark Wiedman)\nwiesel-elisha@CS.YALE.EDU (Elisha Wiesel)\nWILLINGP@gar.union.edu (WILLING, PAUL)\nsmw@alcor.concordia.ca (Steven Winikoff)\nwright@hicomb.hi.com (David Wright)\nebusew@anah.ericsson.com (Stephen Wright 66667)\nliquidx@cnexus.cts.com (Liquid-X)\nxakellis@uivlsisl.csl.uiuc.edu (Michael G. Xakellis)\ncs012113@cs.brown.edu (Ion Yannopoulos)\nyazz@lccsd.sd.locus.com (Bob Yazz)\nlnz@lucid.com (Leonard N. Zubkoff)\n62RSE@npd1.ufpe.br\nadwyer@mason1.gmu.edu\nART@EMBL-Hamburg.DE\natfurman@cup.portal.com\nbillw@attmail.att.com\ncarl@red-dragon.umbc.edu\ncarlf@ai.mit.edu\ncccbbs!chris.thompson@UCENG.UC.EDU\nCCGARCIA@MIZZOU1.BITNET\nclayb@cellar.org\ndack@permanet.org\ndaedalus@netcom.com\ndanielg@autodesk.com\nDave-M@cup.portal.com\nF_GRIFFITH@CCSVAX.SFASU.EDU\ngarcia@husc.harvard.edu\ngav@houxa.att.com\nhammar@cs.unm.edu\nherbison@lassie.ucx.lkg.dec.com\nhhuang@Athena.MIT.EDU\nhkhenson@cup.portal.com\nirving@happy-man.com\njeckel@amugw.aichi-med-u.ac.jp\njgs@merit.edu\njmeritt@mental.mitre.org\nJonas_Marten_Fjallstam@cup.portal.com\nkqb@whscad1.att.com\nLPOMEROY@velara.sim.es.com\nlubkin@apollo.hp.com\nkunert@wustlb.wustl.edu\nLINYARD_M@XENOS.a1.logica.co.uk\nM.Michelle.Wrightwatson@att.com\nmoselecw@elec.canterbury.ac.nz\nnaoursla@eos.ncsu.edu\nng4@husc.harvard.edu\npase70!dchapman@uwm.edu\npocock@math.utah.edu\nRUDI@HSD.UVic.CA\nSCOTTJOR@delphi.com\nstanton@ide.com\nsteveha@microsoft.com\nstu1016@DISCOVER.WRIGHT.EDU\nSYang.ES_AE@xerox.com\ntim.hruby@his.com\nTodd.Kaufmann@FUSSEN.MT.CS.CMU.EDU\ntom@genie.slhs.udel.edu\nUC482529@MIZZOU1.BITNET\nWMILLER@clust1.clemson.edu\nyost@mv.us.adobe.com\n\n(The group still passes if you don\'t count the people for\nwhom I just have email address.)\n\n-Brian <bmdelane@midway.uchicago.edu>\n',
'From: marshall@csugrad.cs.vt.edu (Kevin Marshall)\nSubject: Re: Genocide is Caused by Atheism\nOrganization: Virginia Tech Computer Science Dept, Blacksburg, VA\nLines: 42\nNNTP-Posting-Host: csugrad.cs.vt.edu\n\nsnm6394@ultb.isc.rit.edu (S.N. Mozumder ) writes:\n\n>If Saddam believed in God, he would pray five times a\n>day.\n>\n>Communism, on the other hand, actually committed genocide in the name of\n>atheism, as Lenin and Stalin have said themselves. These two were die\n>hard atheist (Look! A pun!) and believed in atheism as an integral part\n>of communism.\n\nNo, Bobby. Stalin killed millions in the name of Socialism. Atheism was a\ncharacteristic of the Lenin-Stalin version of Socialism, nothing more.\nAnother characteristic of Lenin-Stalin Socialism was the centralization of\nfood distribution. Would you therefore say that Stalin and Lenin killed\nmillions in the name of rationing bread? Of course not.\n\n\n>More horrible deaths resulted from atheism than anything else.\n\nIn earlier posts you stated that true (Muslim) believers were incapable of\nevil. I suppose if you believe that, you could reason that no one has ever\nbeen killed in the name of religion. What a perfect world you live in,\nBobby. \n\n\n>One of the reasons that you are atheist is that you limit God by giving\n>God a form. God does not have a "face".\n\nBobby is referring to a rather obscure law in _The Good Atheist\'s \nHandbook_:\n\nLaw XXVI.A.3: Give that which you do not believe in a face. \n\nYou must excuse us, Bobby. When we argue against theism, we usually argue\nagainst the Christian idea of God. In the realm of Christianity, man was\ncreated in God\'s image. \n\n-- \n|""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""|\n| Kevin Marshall Sophomore, Computer Science |\n| Virginia Tech, Blacksburg, VA USA marshall@csugrad.cs.vt.edu |\n|____________________________________________________________________|\n',
'From: lady@uhunix.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu (Lee Lady)\nSubject: Re: Science and Methodology\nSummary: Merely avoiding mistakes doesn\'t get you anywhere.\nOrganization: University of Hawaii (Mathematics Dept)\nExpires: Mon, 10 May 1993 10:00:00 GMT\nLines: 57\n\nIn article <1993Apr11.015518.21198@sbcs.sunysb.edu> mhollowa@ic.sunysb.edu \n (Michael Holloway) writes:\n>In article <C552Jv.GGB@news.Hawaii.Edu> lady@uhunix.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu \n (Lee Lady) writes:\n>>I would also like to point out that most of the arguments about science\n>>in sci.med, sci.psychology, etc. are not about cases where people are\n>>rejecting scientific argument/evidence/proof. They are about cases where\n>>no adequate scientific research has been done. (In some cases, there is\n>>quite a bit of evidence, but it isn\'t in a format to fit doctrinaire\n>>conceptions of what science is.) \n>\n>Here it is again. This indicates confusion between "proof" and the process\n>of doing science. \n\nYou are making precisely one of the points I wanted to make.\nI fully agree with you that there is a big distinction between the\n*process* of science and the end result. \n\nAs an end result of science, one wants to get results that are\nobjectively verifiable. But there is nothing objective about the\n*process* of science. \n\nIf good empirical research were done and showed that there is some merit\nto homeopathic remedies, this would certainly be valuable information.\nBut it would still not mean that homeopathy qualifies as a science. This\nis where you and I disagree with Turpin. In order to have science, one\nmust have a theoretical structure that makes sense, not a mere\ncollection of empirically validated random hypotheses.\n\nExperiment and empirical studies are an important part of science, but\nthey are merely the culmination of scientific research. The most\nimportant part of true scientific methodology is SCIENTIFIC THINKING. \nWithout this, one does not have any hypotheses worth testing. (No,\nhypotheses do not just leap out at you after you look at enough data.\nNor do they simply come to you in a flash one day while you\'re shaving or\nlooking out the window. At least not unless you\'ve done a lot of really\ngood thinking beforehand.) \n\nThe difference between a Nobel Prize level scientist and a mediocre\nscientist does not lie in the quality of their empirical methodology. \nIt depends on the quality of their THINKING. \n\nIt really bothers me that so many graduate students seem to believe that\nthey are doing science merely because they are conducting empirical\nstudies. And it bothers me even more that there are many fields, such as\ncertain parts of psychology, where there seems to be no thinking at all, \nbut mere studies testing ad hoc hypotheses. \n\nAnd I\'m especially offended by Russell Turpin\'s repeated assertion that\nscience amounts to nothing more than avoiding mistakes. Simply avoiding\nmistakes doesn\'t get you anywhere. \n\n--\nIn the arguments between behaviorists and cognitivists, psychology seems \nless like a science than a collection of competing religious sects. \n\nlady@uhunix.uhcc.hawaii.edu lady@uhunix.bitnet\n',
'From: belville@athena.mit.edu (Sharon Belville)\nSubject: Re: God-shaped hole (was Re: "Accepting Jeesus in your heart...")\nOrganization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology\nLines: 13\n\nIn article <Apr.14.03.07.38.1993.5420@athos.rutgers.edu>, johnsd2@rpi.edu (Dan Johnson) writes:\n\n|> >Those who have an empty spot in the God-shaped hole in their hearts must \n|> >do something to ease the pain.\n|> \n|> I have heard this claim quite a few times. Does anybody here know\n|> who first came up with the "God-shaped hole" business?\n\nI\'ve seen this verse used to back up this idea:\n\n"...He has also set eternity in the hearts of men..." (Ecclesiastes 3:11)\n--\nSharon Belville\n',
"From: uabdpo.dpo.uab.edu!gila005 (Stephen Holland)\nSubject: Re: diet for Crohn's (IBD)\nOrganization: Gastroenterology - Univ. of Alabama\nDistribution: usa\nLines: 81\n\nSummary of thread:\nA person has Crohns, raw vegetables cause problems (unspecified)\nSteve Holland replies: patient may have mild obstruction. Avoid things\nthat would plug her up. Crohn's has no dietary restriction in general.\n\nIn article <1993Apr22.210631.13300@aio.jsc.nasa.gov>,\nspenser@fudd.jsc.nasa.gov (S. Spenser Aden) wrote:\n> \n> Interesting statements, simply because I have been told otherwise. I'm\n> certainly not questioning Steve's claims, as for one I am not a doctor, and I\n> agree that foods don't bring on the recurrence of Crohn's. But inflammation\n> can be either mildly or DRASTICALLY enhanced due to food.\n\nThe feeling obout this has changed in the GI community. The current\nfeeling\nis that inflammation is not induced by food. There is even evidence that\npatients deprived of food have mucosal atrophy due to lack of stimulation\nof\nintestinal growth factors. There is now interest in providing small\namounts\nof nasogastric feeding to patients on IV nutrition. But I digress. \nSymptoms can be drastically enhanced by food, but not inflammation.\n\n> Having had one major obstruction resulting in resection (is that a good enough\n> caveat :-), I was told that a *LOW RESIDUE* diet is called for. Basically,\n> the idea is that if there is inflammation of the gut (which may not be\n> realized by the patient), any residue in the system can be caught in the folds\n> of inflammation and constantly irritate, thus exacerbating the problem.\n> Therefore, anything that doesn't digest completely by the point of common\n> inflammation should be avoided. With what I've been told is typical Crohn's,\n> of the terminal ileum, my diet should be low residue, consisting of:\n>\n> Completely out - never again - items:\n> \to corn (kernel husk doesn't digest ... most of us know this :-)\n> \to popcorn (same)\n> \to dried (dehydrated) fruit and fruit skins\n> \to nuts (Very tough when it comes to giving up some fudge :-)\n\nThe low residue diet is appropriate for you if you still have obstructions.\nAgain, it is not felt that food causes inflammation. These foods are\navoided because they may get stuck. I'd go ahead and have the\nfudge, though ;-) .\n\n> Discouraged greatly:\n> \to raw vegetables (too fibrous)\n> \to wheat and raw grain breads\n> \to exotic lettuce (iceberg is ok since it's apparently mostly water)\n> \to greens (turnip, mustard, kale, etc...)\n> \to little seeds, like sesame (try getting an Arby's without it!)\n> \to long grain and wild rice (husky)\n> \to beans (you'll generate enough gas alone without them!)\n> \to BASICALLY anything that requires heavy digestive processing\n> \n> I was told that the more processed the food the better! (rather ironic in this\n> day and age). The whole point is PREVENTATIVE ... you want to give your\n> system as little chance to inflame as possible. I was told that among the\n> NUMEROUS things that were heavily discouraged (I only listed a few), to try\n> the ones I wanted and see how I felt. If it's bad, don't do it again!\n> Remember though that this was while I was in remission. For Veggies: cook the\n> daylights out of them. I prefer steaming ... I think it's cooks more\n> thoroughly - you're mileage may vary.\n> \n> As with anything else, CHECK WITH YOUR DOCTOR. Don't just take my word. But\n> this is the info I've been given, and it may be a starting point for\n> discussion. Good luck!\n> \nSpencer makes an especially good point in having an observant and\ninformed patient. Would that many patients be able to tell what\ncauses them problems. The digestive processing idea is changing, but\nif a food causes problems, avoid them. Be sure that the foods are \ntested a second time to be sure the food is a real cause. Crohn's\ncommonly causes intermittent symptoms and some patients end up with\nseverly restricted diets that take months to renormalize.\n\nThere was a good article in the CCFA newsletter recently that discussed\nthe issue of dietary restriction of fiber. It would be worth reading\nto anyone with an interest in Crohn's.\n\nAnd, as I always say when dealing with Crohn's, as does Spencer, Good Luck!\n\nSteve Holland\n",
"From: rush@leland.Stanford.EDU (Voelkerding)\nSubject: Re: Death Penalty (was Re: Political Atheists?)\nOrganization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA\nLines: 52\n\nIn article <11812@vice.ICO.TEK.COM> bobbe@vice.ICO.TEK.COM (Robert Beauchaine) writes:\n>In article <1993Apr14.205414.3982@leland.Stanford.EDU> rush@leland.Stanford.EDU (Voelkerding) writes:\n>>\n>>If we worry about the one case in 20,000 (or more) where an innocent man is\n>>convicted of something horrible enough to warrant the death penalty, and\n>>hence put laws into place which make it virtually impossible to actually\n>>execute real criminals, then the death penalty is not serving its original\n>>purpose. It should either be changed or done away with.\n>>\n>\n> I don't have numbers to back this up, so take the following\n> accordingly.\n>\n> You use an off-the-cuff number of 1 in 20,000 innocent people\n> sentenced to die as an acceptable loss for the benefit of capital\n> punishment. I'd be very, very surprised if the ratio were that\n> low. There have been approximately a dozen known cases of the\n> execution of the innocent in the US since the turn of the century.\n> Have we in that same period sentenced 240,000 people to death?\n> Accounting for those cases that we don't know the truth, it seems\n> reasonable to assume that twice that many innocent people have in\n> fact been executed. That would raise the number of death\n> sentences metered out since 1900 to half a million for your\n> acceptance ratio to hold. I rather doubt that's the case.\n>\n>\n> The point, of course, is what *is* an acceptable loss. 1 in\n> 10,000? Seems we're probably not doing even that well. 1 in 100?\n> 1 in 2? Or should we perhaps find a better solution?\n>\n>/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\ \n>\n>Bob Beauchaine bobbe@vice.ICO.TEK.COM \n>\n\nAny suggestions as to what a better solution might be? I realize the\noff-hand nature of the numbers I used. And I can't answer as to what\nan acceptable loss rate is. However, as I said in another post, I\ndespise the idea of supporting criminals for life. It's the economics\nof the situation that concern me most. The money spent feeding, clothing,\nhousing and taking care of people who have demonstrated that they are\nunfit to live in society could go to a number of places, all of which\nI, and probably others, would consider far more worthwhile and which\nwould enrish the lives of all Americans. Give people jobs, give the\nhomeless shelter. Any number of things.\n\nClyde\n\n\n-- \nLittle girls, like butterflies, don't need a reason!\n\t\t\t\t\t- Robert Heinlein\n",
'From: ron.roth@rose.com (ron roth)\nSubject: Selective Placebo\nX-Gated-By: Usenet <==> RoseMail Gateway (v1.70)\nOrganization: Rose Media Inc, Toronto, Ontario.\nLines: 30\n\nT(> Russell Turpin responds to article by Ron Roth:\nT(>\nT(> R> ... I don\'t doubt that the placebo effect is alive and well with\nT(> R> EVERY medical modality - estimated by some to be around 20+%,\nT(> R> but why would it be higher with alternative versus conventional \nT(> R> medicine?"\nT(> \nT(> How do you know that it is? If you could show this by careful \nT(> measurement, I suspect you would have a paper worthy of publication\nT(> in a variety of medical journals. \nT(> \nT(> Russell \n\n If you notice the question mark at the end of the sentence, I was\n addressing that very question to that person (who has a dog named\n sugar) and a few other people who seem to be of the same opinion.\n\n I would love to have anyone come up with a study to support their\n claims that the placebo effect is more prevalent with alternative\n compared to conventional medicine.\n Perhaps the study could also include how patients respond if they\n are dissatisfied with a conventional versus an alternative doctor,\n i.e. which practitioner is more likely to get punched in the face\n when the success of the treatment doesn\'t meet the expectations of \n the patient!\n\n --Ron-- \n---\n RoseReader 2.00 P003228: When in doubt, make it sound convincing!\n RoseMail 2.10 : Usenet: Rose Media - Hamilton (416) 575-5363\n',
"Organization: University of Maine System\nFrom: Andrew T. Robinson <ANDY@MAINE.MAINE.EDU>\nSubject: Reasons for hospitals to join Internet?\nLines: 8\n\nWhat resources and services are available on Internet/BITNET which\nwould be of interest to hospitals and other medical care providers?\nI'm interested in anything relelvant, including institutions and\nbusinesses of interest to the medical profession on Internet,\nspecial services such as online access to libraries or diagnostic\ninformation, etc. etc.\n\nPlease reply directly to ANDY@MAINE.EDU\n",
'Subject: [ANNOUNCE] Ivan Sutherland to speak at Harvard\nFrom: eekim@husc11.harvard.edu (Eugene Kim)\nDistribution: harvard\nOrganization: Harvard University Science Center\nNntp-Posting-Host: husc11.harvard.edu\nLines: 21\n\nThe Harvard Computer Society is pleased to announce its third lecture of\nthe spring. Ivan Sutherland, the father of computer graphics and an\ninnovator in microprocessing, will be speaking at Harvard University on\nTuesday, April 20, 1993, at 4:00 pm in Aiken Computations building, room\n101. The title of his talk is "Logical Effort and the Conflict over the\nControl of Information."\n\nCookies and tea will be served at 3:30 pm in the Aiken Lobby. Admissions\nis free, and all are welcome.\n\nAiken is located north of the Science Center near the Law School.\n\nFor more information, send e-mail to eekim@husc.harvard.edu.\n\nThe lecture will be videotaped, and a tape will be made available.\n\nThanks.\n\n-- \nEugene Kim \'96 | "Give me a place to stand, and I will\nINTERNET: eekim@husc.harvard.edu | move the earth." --Archimedes\n',
'From: besmith@uncc.edu (Brian E Smith)\nSubject: Re: Rayshade query\nNntp-Posting-Host: ws27.uncc.edu\nReply-To: besmith@uncc.edu\nOrganization: University of NC at Charlotte\nLines: 22\n\nIn article 5742@sunvax.sun.ac.za, 8910782@sunvax.sun.ac.za () writes:\n>I am also looking for a surface for the chesspieces. The board is marble.\n>Unfortunately black won\'t work very well for the one side. Anybody with ideas\n>for nice surfaces?\n\nHow about brass or silver? I\'ve seen real chessboards that use that material.\n\n>\n>Where should I post the finished chessboard?\n>\n\nRight here is as good a place as any. Can\'t wait to see it. I use the POV\nraytracer - is it compatible enough for your chessboard?\n\n-------------------------------------------------------------------------------\n "I don\'t know if you\'ve got the whole picture or not, but it doesn\'t \n seem like he\'s running on all thrusters!" -- Leonard McCoy\n\n "A guess? You, Spock? That\'s extraordinary!" -- James T. Kirk\n-------------------------------------------------------------------------------\n Brian Smith (besmith@mosaic.uncc.edu)\n\n',
'From: nfotis@ntua.gr (Nick C. Fotis)\nSubject: (17 Apr 93) Computer Graphics Resource Listing : WEEKLY [part 2/3]\nLines: 1023\nReply-To: nfotis@theseas.ntua.gr (Nick (Nikolaos) Fotis)\nOrganization: National Technical Univ. of Athens\n\nArchive-name: graphics/resources-list/part2\nLast-modified: 1993/04/17\n\n\nComputer Graphics Resource Listing : WEEKLY POSTING [ PART 2/3 ]\n===================================================\nLast Change : 17 April 1993\n\n\n14. Plotting packages\n=====================\n\nGnuplot 3.2\n-----------\n It is one of the best 2- and 3-D plotting packages, with\n online help.It\'s a command-line driven interactive function plotting utility\n for UNIX, MSDOS, Amiga, Archimedes, and VMS platforms (at least!).\n Freely distributed, it supports many terminals, plotters, and printers\n and is easily extensible to include new devices.\n It was posted to comp.sources.misc in version 3.0, plus 2 patches.\n You can practically find it everywhere (use Archie to find a site near you!).\n The comp.graphics.gnuplot newsgroup is devoted to discussion of Gnuplot.\n\nXvgr and Xmgr (ACE/gr)\n-----------------------\n Xmgr is an XY-plotting tool for UNIX workstations using\n X or OpenWindows. There is an XView version called xvgr for\n Suns. Collectively, these 2 tools are known as ACE/gr.\n Compiling xmgr requires the Motif toolkit version 1.1\n and X11R4 - xmgr will not compile under X11R3/Motif 1.0x.\n\n Check at ftp.ccalmr.ogi.edu [129.95.72.34} in\n /CCALMR/pub/acegr/xmgr-2.09.tar.Z (Motif version)\n /CCALMR/pub/acegr/xvgr-2.09.tar.Z (XView version)\n\n Comments, suggestions, bug reports to Paul J Turner\n <pturner@amb4.ese.ogi.edu> (if mail fails, try pturner@ese.ogi.edu).\n Due to time constraints, replies will be few and far between.\n\nRobot\n-----\n Release 0.45 : 2-D and limited 3-D. Based on XView 3, written\n in C / Fortran (so you need a Fortran compiler or the f2c translator).\n Mainly tested on Sun4, less on DECstations. Check at\n ftp.astro.psu.edu (128.118.147.28), pub/astrod.\n\nVG plotting library\n-------------------\n This is a library of Fortran callable routines at sunspot.ceee.nist.gov\n [129.6.64.151]\n\nXgobi\n-----\n It\'s being developed at Bellcore, and its speciality are\n multidimensional data sets analysis and exploration. You can call it\n from the S language also, and it works as an X11 client using the Athena\n widget set (or with an ASCII terminal). It\'s distributed free of charge\n from STATLIB at CMU.\n To get it via e-mail, send email to statlib@temper.stat.cmu.edu and\n in the body area of the message, put the line\n\n send xgobi from general\n\n If you want to pick it via ftp, connect to lib.stat.cmu.edu. Log in as\n "statlib" and use your e-mail address as your password. Then type\n\n cd general\n mget xgobi.*\n\n Warning: It\'s about 2 MB sources + large Postscript manual. Read the\n relevant README to decide whether you need it or not.\n\nPGPLOT\n------\n Runs on VAX/VMS and supposedly on UNIX. It\'s a set of fortran routines freely\n available (though copyrighted and requiring a nominal fee of $50 or so)\n that includes contour plots and support for various devices, including ps.\n Contact tjp@deimos.caltech.edu\n\nGGRAPH\n------\n Host shorty.cs.wisc.edu [128.105.2.8] : /pub/ggraph.tar.Z\n Unknown more details.\n\nepiGRAPH\n--------\n For PCs. Call dvj@lab2.phys.lgu.spb.su (Vladimir J. Dmitriev) for details.\n You can get the program demo or (and) play version, if sent 10 $ to\n\n 1251 Budapest posta fiok 60\n Hungary\n ph/fax 1753696 Budapest\n ph 2017760\n\nMultiplot XLN\n-------------\n For Amigas, shareware ($30 USD, #20 UK or $40 Aust.). Advanced 2D package\n that has a big list of features. Contact:\n\n Dr. Alan Baxter <agb16@mbuc.bio.cam.ac.uk>,\n Cambridge University\n Department of Pathology,\n Tennis Court Road,\n Cambridge CB2 1QP, UK\n\n\n+Athena Plotter Widget set\n+-------------------------\n+ \n+ This version V6.0 is based on Gregory Bond\'s version V5-beta. Added\n+ some stuff for scientific graphs, i.e. log axes, free scalable axes,\n+ XY-lineplots and some more, and re-added plotter callbacks from V4, e.g.\n+ to request the current pointer position, or to cut off a rectangle from the\n+ plotting area for zooming-in. Version V6.0 has a log of bugs fixed and a\n+ log of improvements against V6-beta. Additionally I did some other\n+ changes/extensions, besides \n+ \n+ - Origin and frame lines for axes.\n+ - Subgrid lines on subtic positions.\n+ - Line plots in different line types (lines, points, lines+points,\n+ impulses, lines+impulses, steps, bars), line styles (solid, dotted,\n+ dashed, dot-dashed) and marker types for data points.\n+ - Legend at the right or left hand side of the plot.\n+ - Optional drawing to a pixmap instead of a window.\n+ - Layout callback for aligning axis positions when using\n+ multiple plotters in one application.\n+ \n+ Available at export.lcs.mit.edu, directory contrib/plotter\n+\n+SciPlot\n+-------\n+ SciPlot is a scientific 2D plotting and manipulation program. \n+ For the NeXT (requires NeXTStep 3.0), and it\'s shareware.\n+\n+ Features:\n+ ASCII import and export; EPS export; copy, cut, paste with data buffer;\n+ free number of data points, data buffer, and document window;\n+ selective open and save ; plotting in many styles; automatic legend;\n+ subviews; linear and logarithmic axes; two different axes; text and graphic;\n+ color support; zoom; normalizing and moving; axis conversions;\n+ free hand data manipulations (cut, edit, move, etc.); data editor; sorting\n+ of data; absolute,relative, and free defined error bars;\n+ calculating with buffers (+, -, *, / ); background subtractions\n+ (linear,shirley,tougaard, bezier); integration and relative integration;\n+ fitting of one or more free defined functions; linear regression;\n+ calculations (+, -, *, /, sin, cos, log, etc.); function generator;\n+ spline interpolation; least square smooth and FFT smooth; differentiation;\n+ FFT; ESCA calculations and database; .. and something more \n+\n+ You can find it on:\n+ ftp.cs.tu-berlin.de [130.149.17.7] : /pub/NeXT/science/SciPlot3.1.tar.Z\n+\n+ Author:\n+ Michael Wesemann\n+ Scillerstr. 73,1000 Berlin 12, Germany \n+ mike@fiasko.rz-berlin.mpg.de\n+\n+PLPLOT\n+------\n+ PLPLOT is a scientific plotting package for many systems, small (micro)\n+ and large (super) alike. Despite its small size and quickness,\n+ it has enough power to satisfy most users, including:\n+ standard x-y plots, semilog plots, log-log plots, contour plots, 3D plots,\n+ mesh plots, bar charts and pie charts. Multiple graphs (of the same or\n+ different sizes) may be placed on a single page with multiple lines in each\n+ graph. Different line styles, widths and colors are supported. A virtually\n+ infinite number of distinct area fill patterns may be used. There are\n+ almost 1000 characters in the extended character set. This includes four\n+ different fonts, the Greek alphabet and a host of mathematical, musical, and\n+ other symbols. The fonts can be scaled to any size for various effects.\n+ Many different output device drivers are available (system dependent),\n+ including a portable metafile format and renderer.\n+ \n+ Freely available (but copyrighted) via anonymous FTP on\n+ hagar.ph.utexas.edu, directory pub/plplot\n+ \n+ At present (v. 4.13), PLPLOT is known to work on the following systems:\n+ \n+ Unix: SunOS, A/IX, HP-UX, Unicos, DG/UX, Ultrix\n+ Other platforms: VMS, Amiga/Exec, MS-DOS, OS/2, NeXT\n+ \n+ Authors: Many. The main supporters are:\n+ \n+ Maurice LeBrun <mjl@fusion.ph.utexas.edu>: PLPLOT kernel and the metafile,\n+ xterm, xwindow, tektronix, and Amiga drivers.\n+ Geoff Furnish <furnish@fusion.ph.utexas.edu>: MS-DOS and OS/2 drivers\n+ Tony Richardson <amr@egr.duke.edu>: PLPLOT on the NeXT\n+\n+SuperMongo\n+----------\n+ 2-D plotting package at CMU, filename ~re00/tmp/SM.2.1.0.tar.Z\n+ (probably under the ftp.cmu.edu or andrew.cmu.edu machines?)\n+\n+GLE\n+---\n+ GLE is a high quality graphics package for scientists. It runs on a\n+ variety of platforms (PCs, VAXes, and Unix) with drivers for XWindows,\n+ REGIS, TEK4010, PC graphics cards, VT100s, HP plotters, Postscript\n+ printers, Epson-compatible printers and Laserjet/Paintjet printers. It\n+ provides LaTEX quality fonts, as well as full support for Postscript\n+ fonts. The graphing module provides full control over all features of\n+ graphs. The graphics primitives include user-defined subroutines for\n+ complex pictures and diagrams.\n+\n+ Accompanying utilities include Surface (for hidden line surface\n+ plotting), Contour (for contour plots), Manip (for manipulation of\n+ columnar data files), and Fitls (for fitting arbitrary equations to\n+ data).\n+\n+ Mailing list: GLEList. Send a message to\n+\n+ listserver@tbone.biol.scarolina.edu, with a message boyd containing\n+\n+ sub glelist "Your Name"\n+ \n+ maintainer: Dean Pentcheff <dean2@tbone.biol.scarolina.edu>\n\n==========================================================================\n\n15. Image analysis software - Image processing and display\n==========================================================\n\nPC and Mac-based tools (multi-platform software)\n======================\n\nIMDISP\n------\n IMDISP Written at JPL and other NASA sites. Can do simple display,\n enhancing, smoothing and so on. Works with the FITS and VICAR/PDS\n data formats of NASA. Can read TIFF images, if you know their dimensions\n [PC and Macs]\n\nLabVIEW 2\n---------\n LabVIEW is used as a framework for image processing tools. It provides a\n graphical programming environment using block diagram sketch is the\n "program" with graphical elements representing the programming elements.\n Hundreds of functions are already available and are connected using a\n wiring tool to create the block diagram (program). Functions that the\n block diagrams represent include digital signal processing and\n filtering, numerical analysis, statistics, etc. The tool allows any\n Virtual Instrument (VI, a software file that looks and acts like a real\n laboratory instrument) to be used as a part of any other virtual\n instrument.\n\n National Instruments markets plug-in digital signal processing (DSP)\n boards for Macintoshs and PC compatables that allow real-time\n acquisition and analysis at a personal computer. New software tools for\n DSP are allowing engineers to harness the power of this technology. The\n tools range from low-level debugging software to high-level block\n diagram development software. There are three levels of DSP programming\n associated with the NB-DSP2300 board and LabVIEW:\n Use of the NB-DSP2300 Analysis Library: FFTs, power spectra, filters\n routines callable from THINK C and Macintosh Programers Workshop (MPW) C\n that execute on the NB-DSP2300 board. There is an analysis Virtual\n Interface Library of ready-to-use VIs optimized for the NB-DSP2300.\n\n Use of the National Instruments Developers Toolkit that includes an\n optimizing C compiler, an assembler and a linker for low-level\n programming of the DSP hardware. This approach offers the highest level\n of performance but is the must difficult in terms of ease of use.\n\n Use of the National Instruments Interface Kit software package which has\n utility functions for memory management data communications and\n downloading code to the NB-DSP2300 board. (This is the easiest route for\n the development of custom code.)\n\nUltimage Concept VI\n-------------------\n Concept VI by Graftek-France is a family of image processing Virtual\n Instruments (VIs) that give LabVIEW 2 (described above) users high-end\n tools for designing, integrating and monitoring imaging control systems.\n A VI is a software file that looks and acts like a real laboratory\n instrument. Typical applications for Concept VI include thermography,\n surveillance, machine vision, production testing, biomedical imaging,\n electronic microscopy and remote sensing.\n\n Ultimage Concept VI addresses applications which require further\n qualitative and quantitative analysis. It includes a complete set of\n functions for image enhancement, histogram equalization, spatial and\n frequency filtering, isolation of features, thresholding, mathematical\n morphology analysis, density measurement, object counting, sizing and\n characterization.\n\n The program loads images with a minimum resolution of 64 by 64, a pixel\n depth of 8, 16, or 32 bits, and one image plane. Standard input and\n output formats include PICT, TIFF, SATIE, and AIPD. Other formats can\n be imported.\n\n Image enhancement features include lookup table transformations, spatial\n linear and non-linear filters, frequency filtering, arithmetic and logic\n operations, and geometric transformations, among others. Morphological\n transformations include erosion, dilation, opening, closing, hole\n removal, object separation, and extraction of skeletons, among others.\n Quantitative analysis provides for objects\' detection, measurement, and\n morphological distribution. Measures include area, perimeter, center of\n gravity, moment of inertia, orientation, length of relevant chords, and\n shape factors and equivalence. Measures are saved in ASCII format. The\n program also provides for macro scripting and integration of custom\n modules.\n\n A 3-D view command plots a perspective data graph where image intensity\n is depicted as mountains or valleys in the plot. The histogram tool can\n be plotted with either a linear or logarithmic scale. The twenty-eight\n arithmetic and logical operations provide for: masking and averaging\n sections of images, noise removal, making comparisons, etc. There are\n 13 spatial filters that alter pixel intensities based on local\n intensity. These include high-pass filters for contrast and outlines.\n The frequency data resulting from FFT analysis can be displayed as\n either the (real , imaginary ) components or the (phase, magnitude)\n data. The morphological transformations are useful for data sharpening\n and defining objects or for removing artifacts.\n\n The transformations include: thresholding, eroding, dilating and even\n hole filling.\n\n The program\'s quantitative analysis measurements include: area,\n perimeter, center of mass, object counts, and angle between points.\n\n GTFS, Inc. 2455 Bennett Valley Road #100C Santa Rosa, CA 95494\n 707-579-1733\n\nIPLab Spectrum\n--------------\n IPLAB Spectrum supports image processing and analysis but lacks the\n morphology and quantitative analysis features provided by\n Graftek-FranceUs Ultimage Concept VI. Using scripting tools, the user\n tells the system the operations to be performed. The problem is that far\n too many basic operations require manual intervention. The tool\n supports: FFTs, 16 arithmetic operations for pixel alteration, and a\n movie command for cycling through windows.\n\n\nMacintosh-based tools\n=====================\n\nNCSA Image, NCSA PalEdit and more\n---------------------------------\n NCSA provides a whole suite of public-domain visualization tools for the\n Macintosh, primarily aimed at researchers wanting to visualize results\n from numerical modelling calculations. These applications,\n documentation, and source code are available for anonymous ftp from\n ftp.ncsa.uiuc.edu. Commercial versions of the NCSA programs have been\n developed by Spyglass.\n\n Spyglass, Inc. 701 Devonshire Drive Champaign, IL 61820 (217) 355-6000\n fax: 217 355 8925\n\nNIH IMAGE\n---------\n Available at alw.nih.gov (128.231.128.7) or (preferably)\n zippy.nimh.nih.gov [128.231.98.32], directory:/pub/image.\n It has painting and image manipulation tools, a macro language,\n tools for measuring areas, distances and angles, and for counting\n things. Using a frame grabber card, it can record sequences of\n images to be played back as a movie. It can invoke user-defined\n convolution matrix filters, such as Gaussian. It can import raw\n data in tab-delimited ASCII, or as 1 or 2-byte quantities. It also\n does histograms and even 3-D plots. It is limited to 8-bits/pixel,\n though the 8 bits map into a color lookup table. It runs on any Mac\n that has a 256-color screen and a FPU (or get the NonFPU version\n from zippy.nimh.nih.gov)\n\nPhotoMac\n--------\n Data Translation, Inc. 100 Locke Dr. Marlboro, MA 01752 508-481-3700\n\nPhotoPress\n----------\n Blue Solutions 3039 Marigold Place Thousand Oaks, CA 91360 805-492-9973\n\nPixelTools and TCL-Image\n------------------------\n "Complete family of PixelTools (hardware accelerator and applications\n software) for scientific image processing and analysis. Video-rate\n capture, display, processing, and analysis of high-resolution\n monochromatic and color images. Includes C source code."\n\nTCL-Image:\n "Software package for scientific, quantitative image processing and\n analysis. It provides a complete language for the capture, enhancement,\n and extraction of quantitative information from gray-scale images.\n TCL_Image has over 200 functions for image processing, and contains the\n other elements needed in a full programming language for algorithm\n development -- variables and control structures. It is easily\n extensible through "script" (or indirect command) files. These script\n files are simply text files that contain TCL-Image commands. They are\n executed as normal commands and include the ability to pass parameters.\n The direct capture of video images is supported via popular frame\n grabber boards. TCL-Image comes with the I-View utility that provides\n conversion between common image file types, such as PICT2 and TIFF."\n\n Perceptics 725 Pellissippi Parkway Knoxville, TN 37933 615-966-9200\n\nSatellite Image Workshop\n------------------------\n It comes with a number of satellite pictures (raw data) and does all\n sorts of image enhancing on it. You\'ll need at least a Mac II with co-\n processor; a 256 color display and a large harddisk. The program doesn\'t\n run under system 7.x.ATE1 V1\n\n In the documentation the contact address is given as: Liz Smith, Jet\n Propulsion Laboratory, MS 300-323, 4800 Oak Grove Dr,.Pasadena, CA 91109\n (818) 354-6980\n\nVisualization Workbench\n-----------------------\n "An electronic imaging software system that performs interactive image\n analysis and scientific 2D and 3D plotting."\n\n Paragon Imagine 171 Lincoln St. Lowell, MA 01852 508-441-2112\n\nAdobe Photoshop\n---------------\n\n The tool supports Rtrue colorS with 24-bit images or 256 levels of grey\n scale. Once an image has been imported it can be Rre-touchedS with\n various editing tools typical of those used in Macintosh-based RpaintS\n applications. These include an eraser, pencil, brush and air brush.\n Advanced RpasteS tools that control the interaction between a pasted\n selection and the receiving site have also been incorporated. For\n example, all red pixels in a selection can easily be preventing from\n being pasted. Photoshop has transparencies ranging from 0 to 100%,\n allowing you to create ghost overlays. RPhoto-editingS tools include\n control of the brightness and contrast, color balancing, hue/saturation\n modification and spectrum equalization. Images can be subjected to\n various signal processing algorithms to smooth or sharpen the image,\n blur edges, or locate edges. Image scaling is also supported.\n\n For storage savings, the images can be compressed using standard\n algorithms, including externally supplied compression such as JPEG,\n availlable from Storm Technologies. The latest version of Adobe\n Photoshop supports the import of numerous image formats including: EPSF,\n EPSF, TIFF, PICT resource, Amiga IFF/ILBM, CompuServe GIF, MacPaint,\n PIXAR, PixelPaint, Scitex CT, TGA and ThunderScan..\n\n Adobe Systems, Inc. 1585 Charlestown Road PO Box 7900 Mountain View, CA\n 94039-7900 415-961-4400\n\nColorStudio and ImageStudio\n---------------------------\n ColorStudio is an image-editing and paint package from Letraset that has\n more features than Adobe Photoshop but is decidedly more complex and\n therefore more difficult to use. Several steps are often required to\n accomplish that which can be done in a single step using Photoshop. The\n application requires a great deal of available disk space as one can\n easily end up with images in the 30 MB range. The program provides a\n variety of powerful selection tools including the "auto selection tool"\n which lets the user choose image areas on the basis of color, close\n hues, color range and mask.\n\nImageStudio: Don\'t know...\n\n Letraset USA 40 Eisenhower Drive Paramus, NJ 07653 201-845-6100\n\nDapple Systems\n--------------\n "High resolution image analysis software provides processing tools to\n work with multiple images, enhance and edit, and measure a variety of\n global or feature parameters, and interpret the data."\n\n Dapple Systems, 355 W. Olive Ave, #100 Sunnyvale, CA 94086 408-733-3283\n\nDigital Darkroom\n----------------\n The latest release of Digital Darkroom has five new selection and\n editing tools for enhancing images. One such feature allows the user to\n select part of an image simply by "painting" it. A new polyline\n selection tool creates a selection tool for single pixel wide\n selections. A brush lets the operator "paint" with a selected portion\n of the image. Note that this is not a true color image enhancement tool.\n This tool should be used when the user intends to operate in grey-scale\n images only. It should be noted that Digital Darkroom is not as\n powerful as either Adobe Photoshop or ColorStudio.\n\n Silicon Beach Software 9770 Carroll Ctr. Rd., Suite J San Diego, CA\n 92126 619-695-6956\n\nDimple\n------\n It is compatible with system 6.05 and system 7.0 , requires Mac LC or\n II series with 256 colours, with a recommended min of 6Mb of ram. It has\n the capability of reading Erdas files. Functions include; image\n enhancement, 3D and contour plots, image statistics, supervised and\n unsupervised classification, PCA and other image transformations. There\n is also a means (Image Operation Language or IOL) by which you can write\n your own transformations. There is no image rectification, however\n Dimple is compatable with MAPII. The latest version is 1.4 and it is in\n the beta stage of testing. Dimple was initially developed as a teaching\n tool and it is very good for this purpose."\n\n "Dimple runs on a colour Macintosh. It is a product still in its\n development phase.. i.e. it doesn\'t have all the inbuilt features of\n other packages, but is coming along nicely. It has its own inbuilt\n language for writing "programs" for processing an image, defining\n convolution filters etc. Dimple is a full mac application with pull down\n menus etc... It is unprotected software."\n\n Process Software Solutions, PO Box 2110, Wollongong, New South Wales,\n Australia. 2500. Phone 61 42 261757 Fax 61 42 264190.\n\nEnhance\n-------\n Enhance has a RrulerS tool that supports measurements and additionally\n provides angle data. The tool has over 80 mathematical filter\n variations: "Laplacian, medium noise filter", etc. Files can be saved\n as either TIFF, PICT, EPSF or text (however EPSF files can\'t be imported).\n\n MicroFrontier 7650 Hickman Road Des Moines, IA 50322 515-270-8109\n\nImage Analyst\n-------------\n An image processing product for users who need to extract quantitative\n data from video images. Image Analyst lets users configure\n sophisticated image processing and measurement routines without the\n necessity of knowing a programming language. It is designed for such\n tasks at computing number and size of cells in images projected by video\n cameras attached to microscopes, or enhancing and measuring distances in\n radiographs.\n\n Image Analyst provides users with an array of field-proven video\n analysis techniques that enable them to easily assemble a sequence of\n instructions to enhance feature appearance; count objects; determine\n density, shape, size, position, or movement; perform object feature\n extraction; and conduct textural analysis automatically. Image Analyst\n works with either a framegrabber board and any standard video camera, or\n a disk-stored image.\n\n Within minutes, without the need for programming, the Image Analyst user\n can set up a process to identify and analyze any element of a image.\n Measurements and statistics can be automatically or semi-automatically\n generated from TIFF or PICT files or from captured video tape images.\n Image Analyst recognizes items in images based on their size, shape and\n position. The tool provides direct support for the Data Translation and\n Scion frame grabbers. A menu command allows for image capture from a VCR\n video camera or other NTSC or PAL devices.\n\n There are 2 types of files, the image itself and the related Sequence\n file that holds the processing, measurements and analysis that the user\n defines. Automated sequences are set up in Regions Of Interest (ROI)\n represented by movable, sizable boxes atop the image. Inside a ROI, the\n program can find the distance between two edges, the area of a shape,\n the thickness of a wall, etc. Image Analyst finds the center, edge and\n other positions automatically. The application also provides tools so\n that the user can work interactively to find the edge of object. It also\n supports histograms and a color look-up table (CLUT) tool.\n\n Automatix, Inc. 775 Middlesex Turnpike Billerica, MA 01821 508-667-7900\n\nIPLab\n-----\n Signal Analytics Corp. 374 Maple Ave. E Vienna, VA 22180 703-281-3277\n FAX 703-281-2509\n\n "Menu-driven image processing software that supports 24-bit color or\n pseudocolor/grayscale image display and manipulation."\n\nMAP II\n------\n Among the Mac GIS systems, MAP II distributed by John Wiley has\n integrated image analysis.\n\nIMAGE\n-----\n from Stanford : Try anonymous ftp from sumex-aim.stanford.edu\n It has pd source for image v2, and ready to run code for a mac under\n image v3.\n\n\n\nWindows/DOS PC-based tools\n==========================\n\nCCD\n---\n Richard Berry\'s CCD imaging book for Willamon-Bell contains (optional?)\n disks with image manipulating software. Source code is included.\n\nERDAS\n-----\n "ERDAS will do all of the things you want: rectification,\n classification, transformations (canned & user-defined), overlays,\n filters, contrast enhancement, etc. ... I was using it on my thesis &\n then changed the topic a bit & that work became secondary."\n\n ERDAS, Inc. 2801 Buford Highway Suite 300 Atlanta, GA 30329 404-248-9000\n FAX 404-248-9400\n\nRSVGA\n-----\n "I have been getting up to speed on a program called RSVGA available from\n Eidetic Digital Image Ltd. in British Columbia. Its for IBM PC\'s or\n clones, cheap (about $400) and does all the stuff Erdas does but is not\n as fast or as powerful, though I have had only limited experience with\n Erdas. I have used RSVGA with 6 of 7 Landsat bands and it is a good\n starter program except for the obtuse manual"\n\nIMAGINE-32\n----------\n It\'s a 32 bit package [I suppose for PCs] called "Imagine32"\n or "Image32" The program does a modest amount of image processing --add,\n subtract, multiply, divide, display, and plot an x or y cut across the image.\n It can also display a number of images simultaneously.\n The company is CompuScope, in Santa Barbara, CA. \n\nPC Vista\n--------\n It was announced in the 1989 August edition of PASP. It is known to\n be available from Mike Richmond, whose email addresses have been\n\n\trichmond@bllac.berkeley.edu\n\trichmond@bkyast.berkeley.edu\n\n and his s-mail address is:\n\n Michael Richmond,Astronomy Department, Campbell Hall, Berkeley, CA 94720\n\n The latest version of PC-Vista, version 1.7, includes not only the source\n code and help files, but also a complete set of executable programs and\n a number of sample FITS images. If you do wish to use the source code,\n you will need Microsoft C, version 5.0 or later; other compilers may work,\n but will require substantial modifications.\n\n To receive the documentation and nine double-density (360K) floppies\n (or three quad-density 3-1/2 inch floppies (1.44M) with everything on them,\n just send a request for PC-Vista, together with your name and a US-Mail\n address, to \n\n\tOffice of Technology Licensing\n\t2150 Shattuck Ave., Suite 510\n\tBerkeley, Ca. 94704\n\n Include a check (Traveller\'s Checks are fine) or purchase order for $150.00\n in U.S. dollars, if your address is inside the continental U.S., or $165.00\n otherwise, made out to Regents of the University of California\n to cover duplication and mailing costs.\n\n\nSOFTWARE TOOLS\n--------------\n It\'s a set of software "tools" put out by Canyon State\n Systems and Software. They are not free, but rather cheap at about $30 I\n heard. It will handle most all of the formats used by frame grabber\n software. \n\nMIRAGE\n------\n It\'s image processing software written by Jim Gunn at the\n Astrophysics Dept at Princeton. It will run on a PC among other platforms.\n It is a Forth based system - i.e. a Forth language with many image\n processing displaying functions built in. \n\nDATA TRANSLATION SOURCE BOOK\n----------------------------\n The Data Translation company in Massachusetts publishes a free book\n containing vendors of data analysis hardware and software which is\n compatible with Data Translation and other frame grabbers.\n Surely you can find much more PC-related stuff in it.\n\nMAXEN386\n--------\n A couple of Canadians have written a program named MAXEN386 which does\n maximum entropy image deconvolution. Their company is named Digital\n Signal Processing Software, or something like that, and the software is\n mentioned in an article in Astronomy Magazine, either Jan or Feb 92\n (an article on CCD\'s vs film). \n\nJANDEL SCIENTIFIC (JAVA)\n------------------------\n Another software package (JAVA) is put out by Jandel Scientific. \n Jandel Scientific, 65 Koch Road, Corte Madera, CA 94925, (415) 924-8640,\n (800) 874-1888.\n\nMicrobrian\n----------\n Runs on an MS dos platform and uses a 32 bit graphics card\n (Vista), or an about to be released version will support a number of\n super VGA cards. Its a full blown remote sensed data processing\n system.. It is menu driven (character based screen), but is does not use\n a windowed user interface. Its is hardware protected with a dongle.\n Mbrian = micro Barrier reef Image Anaysis System. It was developed by\n CSIRO (Commonwealth Scientific & Industrial Organization) and is\n marketed/ supported by:\n\n MPA Australia (51 Lusher Road, Croydon, Victoria\n tel + 61 3 724 4488 fax +61 3 724 4455)\n\n There are educational and commercial prices, but be prepared to set\n aside $A10k for the first educational licence. Subsequent ones come\n cheaper (they need to!) It has installed sites worldwide. It is widely\n used at ANU.\n\nMicroImage\n----------\n The remote sensing lab here at Dartmouth currently uses Terra-Mar\'s\n MicroImage, on 486 PCs with some fancy display hardware.\n\n Terra-Mar Resource Information Services, Inc.\n\n 1937 Landings Drive Mountain View, CA 94043 415-964-6900 FAX\n 415-964-5430\n\nUnix-based tools\n================\n\nIRAF (Image Reduction and Analysis Facility)\n--------------------------------------------\n Developed in the National Optical Astronomy Observatory, Kitt Peak AZ\n It is free, you can ftp it from tucana.noao.edu [140.252.1.1]\n and complement it with STSDAS from stsci.edu [130.167.1.2].\n Email to iraf@noao.edu for more details.\n Apparently this is one of the _de facto_ standards in the astronomical\n image community. They issue a newsletter also.\n They seem to support very well their users. Works with VMS also last\n I heard, and practically has its own shell on top of the VMS/Unix shells.\n\n It\'s suggested that you get a copy of saoimage for display under X windows.\n Very flexible/extendable -- tons (literally 3 linear feet) of\n documentation for the general user, skilled user, and programmer.\n\nALV\n---\n A Sun-specific image toolkit. Version 2.0.6 posted to\n comp.sources.sun on 11dec89. Also available via email to\n alv-users-request@cs.bris.ac.uk.\n\nAIPS\n----\n Astronomical Image Processing System. Contact: aipsmail@nrao.edu\n (also see the UseNet Newsgroups alt.sci.astro.aips and sci.astro.fits)\n Built by NRAO (National Radio Astronomy Observatory, HQ in Charlottesville,\n VA, sites in NM, AZ, WV). Software distributed by 9-track, Exabyte, DAT,\n or (non-anonymous) internet ftp. Documentation (PostScript mostly)\n available via anonymous ftp to baboon.cv.nrao.edu (192.33.115.103),\n directory pub/aips and pub/aips/TEXT/PUBL. Installation requires building\n the system and thus a Fortran and C compiler.\n This package can read and write FITS data (see sci.astro.fits), and is\n primarily for reduction, analysis, and image enhancement of Radio Astronomy\n data from radio telescopes, particularly the Very Large Array (VLA), a\n synthesis instrument. It consists of almost 300 programs that do everything\n from copying data to sophisticated deconvolution, e.g. via maximum entropy.\n There is an X11-based Image tool (XAS) and a tek-compatible xterm-based\n graphics tool built into AIPS. The XAS tool is modelled after the hardware\n functionality of the International Imaging Systems model 70 display unit and\n can do image arithmetic, etc.\n The code is mostly Fortran 77 with some system C language modules, and is\n available for Suns, IBM RS/6000, Dec/Ultrix, Convex, Cray (Unicos), and\n Alliant with support planned for HP-9000/7xx, Solaris 2.1, and maybe SGI.\n There is currently a project - "AIPS++" - underway to rewrite the\n algorithmic functionality of AIPS in a modern setting, using C++ and an\n object oriented approach. Whereas AIPS is proprietary code (licensed for\n free to non-profit institutions) owner by NRAO and the NSF, AIPS++ will be\n in the public domain at some level, as it is an international effort with\n contributions from the US, Canada, England, the Netherlands, India, and\n Australia to name a few. \n\nLABOimage\n---------\n (version 4.0 is out for X11) It\'s written in C, and currently\n runs on Sun 3/xxx, Sun 4/xxx (OS3.5, 4.0 and 4.0.3) under SunView.\n The expert system for image segmentation is written in Allegro Common Lisp.\n It was used on the following domains: computer science (image analysis), \n medicine, biology, physics. It is distributed free of charge (source code).\n Available via anonymous FTP at ftp.ads.com (128.229.30.16), in\n pub/VISION-LIST-ARCHIVE/SHAREWARE/LaboImage_*\n\n Contact: Prof. Thierry Pun, Computer Vision Group Computing Science Center,\n U-Geneva 12, rue du Lac, CH-1207 Geneva SWITZERLAND\n Phone : +41(22) 787 65 82; fax: +41(22) 735 39 05\n E-mail: pun@cui.unige.ch or pun@cgeuge51.bitnet\n\n\nFigaro\n------\n It was originally made for VMS, and can be obtained from\n Keith Shortridge in Australia (ks@aaoepp.aao.gov.au)\n and for Unix from Sam Southard at Caltech (sns@deimos.caltech.edu).\n It\'s about 110Mbytes on a Sun.\n\nKHOROS\n------\n Moved to the Scientific Visualization category below\n\nVista\n-----\n The "real thing" is available via anonymous ftp from lowell.edu. Email to\n vista@lowell.edu for more details. Total size less than 20Mbytes.\n\nDISIMP\n------\n (Device Independent Software for Image Processing) is a powerful\n system providing both user friendliness and high functionality in\n interactive times.\n\n Feature Description\n\n DISIMP incorporates a rich library of image processing utilities and\n spatial data options. All functions can be easily accessed via the\n DISIMP executive. This menu is modular in design and groups image\n processes by their function. Such a logical structure means that\n complicated processes are simply a progression through a series of\n modules.\n\n Processes include image rectification, classification (unsupervised and\n supervised), intensity transformations, three dimensional display and\n Principal Component Analysis. DISIMP also supports the more simple and\n effective enhancement techniques of filtering, band subtraction and\n ratioing.\n\n Host Configuration Requirements\n\n Running on UNIX workstations, DISIMP is capable of processing the more\n computational intensive techniques in interactive processing times.\n DISIMP is available in both Runtime and Programmer\'s environments. Using\n the Programmers environment, utilities can be developed for specific\n applications programs.\n\n Graphics are governed by an icon-based Display Panel which allows quick\n enhancments of a displayed image. Manipulations of Look Up Tables,\n colour stretches, changes to histograms, zooming and panning can be\n interactively driven through this control.\n\n A range of geographic projections enables DISIMP to integrate data of\n image, graphic and textual types. Images can be rectified by a number of\n coordinate systems, providing the true geographic knowledge essential\n for ground truthing. Overlays of grids, text and vector data can be\n added to further enhance referenced imagery.\n\n The system is a flexible package allowing users of various skill levels\n to determine their own working environment, including the amount of help\n required. DISIMP comes fully configured with no optional extras. The\n purchase price includes all functionality required for professional\n processing of remote sensed data.\n\n For further information, please contact:\n\n The Business Manager, CLOUGH Engineering Group Systems Division, 627\n Chapel Street, South Yarra, Australia 3141. Telephone: +61 3 825 5555\n Fax: +61 3 826 6463\n\nGlobal Imaging Software\n-----------------------\n "We use Global Imaging Software to process AVHRR data, from the dish to\n the final display. Select a chunk of five band data from a pass,\n automatic navigation, calibrate it to Albedo and Temp, convert that to\n byte, register it to predesigned window, all relatively automatically\n and carefree.\n\n It has no classification routines to speak of, but it isn\'t that\n difficult to write your own with their programmer\'s module.\n\n Very small operation: one designs, one codes, one sells. Been around for\n a number of years, sold to Weather Service and Navy. Runs on HP9000\n with HP-UX. Supports 24-bit display"\n\nHIPS\n----\n(Human Information Processing Laboratory\'s Image Processing System)\n\n Michael Landy co-wrote and sell a general-purpose package for image\n processing which has been used for basically all the usual image\n processing applications (robotics, medical, satellite, engineering, oil\n exploration, etc.). It is called HIPS, and deals with sequences of\n multiband images in the same way it deals with single images. It has\n been growing since we first wrote it, both by additions from us as well\n as a huge user-contributed library.\n\n Feature description\n\n HIPS is a set of image processing modules which together provide\n a powerful suite of tools for those interested in research,\n system development and teaching. It handles sequences of images\n (movies) in precisely the same manner as single frames.\n\n Programs and subroutines have been developed for simple image\n transformations, filtering, convolution, Fourier and other transform\n processing, edge detection and line drawing manipulation, digital\n image compression and transmission methods, noise generation, and image\n statistics computation. Over 150 such image transformation programs\n have been developed. As a result, almost any image processing task\n can be performed quickly and conveniently. Additionally, HIPS allows\n users to easily integrate their own custom routines. New users\n become effective using HIPS on their first day.\n\n HIPS features images that are self-documenting. Each image stored in\n the system contains a history of the transformations that have been\n applied to that image. HIPS includes a small set of subroutines\n which primarily deals with a standardized image sequence header, and\n a large library of image transformation tools in the form of UNIX\n ``filters\'\'. It comes complete with source code, on-line manual\n pages, and on-line documentation.\n\n Host Configuration Requirements\n\n Originally developed at New York University, HIPS now represents\n one of the most extensive and flexible vision and image processing\n environments currently available. It runs under the UNIX operating\n system. It is modular and flexible, provides automatic documentation\n of its actions, and is almost entirely independent of special equipment.\n HIPS is now in use on a variety of computers including Vax and\n Microvax, Sun, Apollo, Masscomp, NCR Tower, Iris, IBM AT, etc.\n For image display and input, drivers are supplied for the Grinnell and\n Adage (Ikonas) image processors, and the Sun-2, Sun-3, Sun- 4, and\n Sun-386i consoles. We also supply user-contributed drivers for a\n number of other framestores and windowing packages (Sun gfx, Sun\n console, Matrox VIP-1024, ITI IP-512, Lexidata, Macintosh II, X\n windowing system, and Iris). The Hipsaddon package includes an\n interface for the CRS-4000. It is a simple matter to interface HIPS\n with other frame- stores, and we can put interested users in touch with\n users who have interfaced HIPS with the Arlunya and Datacube Max-\n Video. HIPS can be easily adapted for other image display devices\n because 98% of HIPS is machine independent.\n\n Availability\n\n HIPS has proven itself a highly flexible system, both as an\n interactive research tool, and for more production- oriented tasks. It\n is both easy to use, and quickly adapted and extended to new uses. HIPS\n is supplied on magnetic tape in UNIX tar format (either reel- to-reel or\n Sun cartridge), and comes with source code, libraries, a library of\n convolu- tion masks, and on-line documentation and manual pages.\n\n Michael Landy SharpImage Software P.O. Box 373, Prince Street Station\n New York, NY 10012-0007 Voice: (212) 998-7857 Fax: (212) 995-4011\n msl@cns.nyu.edu\n\n\nMIRA\n----\n[ Please DON\'T confuse that with the Thalmanns animation system from\n Montreal. These are altogether different beasts! - nfotis ]\n\n MIRA stands for Microcomputer Image Reduction and Analysis. MIRA gives\n workstation level performance on 386/486 DOS computers using SVGA cards in\n 256 color modes up to 1024x768. MIRA contains a very handsome/functional\n GUI which is mouse and keystroke operated. MIRA reads/writes TIFF and FITS\n formats, native formats of a number of CCD cameras, and uncompressed binary\n images in byte, short integer, and 4-byte real pixel format in 1- or 2-\n dimensions. The result of an image processing operation can be short integer\n or real pixels, or the same as that of the input image. MIRA does the\n operation using short or floating point arithmetic to maintain the precision\n and accuracy of the pixel format. Over 100 functions are hand-coded in\n assembly language for maximum speed on the Intel hardware. The entire\n graphical interface is also written in assembly language to maximize\n the speed of windowing operations. Windows for 2-d image and 1-d image/data\n display and analysis have dedicated cursors which read position and value\n value in real time as you move the mouse. There are also smooth, real time\n contrast and brightness stretch and panning of a magnified portion of\n the displayed image(s), all operated by the mouse. A wide selection of\n grayscale, pseudocolor, and random palettes is provided, and other \n palettes can be generated.\n\n\nSupported functions include such niceties as the following:\n\no image & image: + - / * interpolation\no image & constant: + - / *\no unary operations: abs value, polynomial of pixel value, chs, 1/x, log,\n byteswap, clip values at upper/lower limits, short->real or real->short.\no combine images by mean, median, mode, or sum of pixel values, with or\n without autoscaling to mean, median, or mode of an image section.\no convolutions/filters: Laplacian, Sobel edge operator, directional gradient,\n line, Gaussian, elliptical and rectangular equal weight filters, unsharp\n masking, median filters, user defined filter kernel. Ellipse, rectangle,\n line, gradient, Gaussian, and user defined filters can be rotated to\n any specified angle.\no CCD data reduction: flat fielding, dark subtraction, column over/underscan\n bias removal, remove bad pixels and column defects, normalize to\n region target mean, median, or modal value.\no create subimage, mosaic m x n 1-d or 2-d images to get larger image,\n collapse 2-d image into 1-d image.\no plot 1-d section or collapsed section of 2-d image, plot histogram of\n region of an image.\no review/change image information/header data, rename keywords, plot\n keyword values for a set of images.\no luminance/photometry: elliptical or circular aperture photometry,\n brightness profile, isophotal photometry between set of upper & lower\n luminances, area and luminance inside traced polygon. Interactive\n background fitting and removal from part or all of image, fit elliptical\n aperture shape to image isophotes. \no interactive with 2-d image: contrast/brightness, x- y- or diagonal plot\n of pixel values, distance between two points, compute region stats,`\n centroid, pan to x,y location or image center, zoom 1/16 to 10 times,\n change cursor to rectangle crosshair, full image crosshair, or off, and\n adjust cursor size on image. Select linear, log or gamma transfer function\n or histogram equalization.\no interactive or specified image offset computation and re-sampling for\n registration.\no interactive with 1-d image: zoom in x- y- or both in steps of 1/2 or\n 2 times current, re-center plot, or enlarge a framed area. 4 plot buffers\n can be cycled through. Interactive data analysis: polynomial fitting,\n point deletion, undelete, change value, point weighting, linear and\n quadratic loess and binomial smoothing, revert to unit point weights\n or original data buffer, substitute results into data buffer for pass\n back to calling function. Dump data buffer (+ overlays and error bars)\n to file or printer. Change to user specified coordinate system.\no Tricolor image combination and display, hardcopy halftone printout to\n HP-PCL compatible printers (Laserjet, deskjet, etc.)\no Documentation is over 300 pages in custom vinyl binder.\n\n Cost: 995 $USD/copy\n\n Available from:\n\n Axiom Research, Inc.\n Box 44162\n Tucson, AZ 85733\n (602) 791-2864 phone/fax.\n\n international marketing rep: Saguaro Scientific Corporation, Tucson, Arizona.\n\n==========================================================================\n\nEnd of Part 2 of the Resource Listing\n-- \nNick (Nikolaos) Fotis National Technical Univ. of Athens, Greece\nHOME: 16 Esperidon St., InterNet : nfotis@theseas.ntua.gr\n Halandri, GR - 152 32 UUCP: mcsun!ariadne!theseas!nfotis\n Athens, GREECE FAX: (+30 1) 77 84 578\n',
'From: dlecoint@garnet.acns.fsu.edu (Darius_Lecointe)\nSubject: Re: Sabbath Admissions 5of5\nOrganization: Florida State University\nLines: 21\n\nI find it interesting that cls never answered any of the questions posed. \nThen he goes on the make statements which make me shudder. He has\nestablished a two-tiered God. One set of rules for the Jews (his people)\nand another set for the saved Gentiles (his people). Why would God\ndiscriminate? Does the Jew who accepts Jesus now have to live under the\nGentile rules.\n\nGod has one set of rules for all his people. Paul was never against the\nlaw. In fact he says repeatedly that faith establishes rather that annuls\nthe law. Paul\'s point is germane to both Jews and Greeks. The Law can\nnever be used as an instrument of salvation. And please do not combine\nthe ceremonial and moral laws in one.\n\nIn Matt 5:14-19 Christ plainly says what He came to do and you say He was\nonly saying that for the Jews\'s benefit. Your Christ must be a\npolitician, speaking from both sides of His mouth. As Paul said, "I have\nnot so learned Christ." Forget all the theology, just do what Jesus says.\n Your excuses will not hold up in a court of law on earth, far less in\nGod\'s judgement hall.\n\nDarius\n',
"From: harvey@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Betty Harvey)\nSubject: Re: Is MSG sensitivity superstition?\nReply-To: harvey@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Betty Harvey)\nOrganization: Carderock Division, NSWC, Bethesda, MD\nLines: 30\n\nIn rec.food.cooking, packer@delphi.gsfc.nasa.gov (Charles Packer) writes:\n>Is there such a thing as MSG (monosodium glutamate) sensitivity?\n>I saw in the NY Times Sunday that scientists have testified before\n>an FDA advisory panel that complaints about MSG sensitivity are\n>superstition. Anybody here have experience to the contrary?\n>\nI know that there is MSG sensitivity. When I eat foods with MSG I get\nvery thirsty and my hands swell and get a terrible itchy rash. I first\nexperienced this problem when I worked close to Chinatown and ate Chinese\nfood almost everyday for lunch. Now I can't tolerate MSG at all. I can\nnotice immediately when I have eaten any. I try to avoid MSG completely.\n\nInteresting fact though is that all three of my children started experiencing\nthe exact same rash on their hands. I couldn't understand why because I\ndon't MSG in cooking and we ask for no MSG when we do eat Chinese (I still\nlove it). After some investigation I knew that Oodles of Noodles where\none of their favorite foods. One of the main ingredients in the flavor\npackets is MSG. Now I look at all labels. You would be surprised at\nplaces you find MSG.\n\n\n/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\nBetty Harvey <harvey@oasys.dt.navy.mil> | David Taylor Model Basin\nADP, Networking and Communication Assessment | Carderock Division\n Branch | Naval Surface Warfare\nCode 1221 | Center\nBethesda, Md. 20084-5000 | DTMB,CD,NSWC \n | \n(301)227-3379 FAX (301)227-3343 | \n/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\\\/\\/\n",
'From: healta@saturn.wwc.edu (Tammy R Healy)\nSubject: Re: who are we to judge, Bobby?\nLines: 38\nOrganization: Walla Walla College\nLines: 38\n\nIn article <1993Apr14.213356.22176@ultb.isc.rit.edu> snm6394@ultb.isc.rit.edu (S.N. Mozumder ) writes:\n>From: snm6394@ultb.isc.rit.edu (S.N. Mozumder )\n>Subject: Re: who are we to judge, Bobby?\n>Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1993 21:33:56 GMT\n>In article <healta.56.734556346@saturn.wwc.edu> healta@saturn.wwc.edu (TAMMY R HEALY) writes:\n>>Bobby,\n>>\n>>I would like to take the liberty to quote from a Christian writer named \n>>Ellen G. White. I hope that what she said will help you to edit your \n>>remarks in this group in the future.\n>>\n>>"Do not set yourself as a standard. Do not make your opinions, your views \n>>of duty, your interpretations of scripture, a criterion for others and in \n>>your heart condemn them if they do not come up to your ideal."\n>> Thoughts Fromthe Mount of Blessing p. 124\n>>\n>>I hope quoting this doesn\'t make the atheists gag, but I think Ellen White \n>>put it better than I could.\n>> \n>>Tammy\n>\n>Point?\n>\n>Peace,\n>\n>Bobby Mozumder\n>\nMy point is that you set up your views as the only way to believe. Saying \nthat all eveil in this world is caused by atheism is ridiculous and \ncounterproductive to dialogue in this newsgroups. I see in your posts a \nspirit of condemnation of the atheists in this newsgroup bacause they don\'\nt believe exactly as you do. If you\'re here to try to convert the atheists \nhere, you\'re failing miserably. Who wants to be in position of constantly \ndefending themselves agaist insulting attacks, like you seem to like to do?!\nI\'m sorry you\'re so blind that you didn\'t get the messgae in the quote, \neveryone else has seemed to.\n\nTammy\n',
'From: turpin@cs.utexas.edu (Russell Turpin)\nSubject: Re: Great Post! (was Re: Candida (yeast) Bloom...) (VERY LONG)\nSummary: How virtually?\nOrganization: CS Dept, University of Texas at Austin\nLines: 30\nNNTP-Posting-Host: im4u.cs.utexas.edu\n\n-*-----\nIn article <noringC5wzM4.41n@netcom.com> noring@netcom.com (Jon Noring) writes:\n>> ... if you can\'t observe or culture the yeast "bloom" in the\n>> gut or sinus, then there\'s no way to diagnose or even recognize\n>> the disease. And I know they realize that it is virtually\n>> impossible to test for candida overbloom in any part of the body \n>> that cannot be easily observed since candida is everywhere in \n>> the body.\n\nIn article <C5y5nM.Axv@toads.pgh.pa.us> geb@cs.pitt.edu (Gordon Banks) writes:\n> You\'ve just discovered one of the requirements for a good quack theory.\n> Find something that no one can *disprove* and then write a book saying\n> it is the cause of whatever. Since no one can disprove it, you can\n> rake in the bucks for quite some time. \n\nI hope Gordon Banks did not mean to imply that notions such as\nhard-to-see candida infections causing various problems should not\nbe investigated. Many researchers have made breakthroughs by \nfiguring out how to investigate things that were previously thought\n"virtually impossible to test for."\n\nIndeed, I would be surprised if "candida overbloom" were such a\nphenomena. I would think that candida would produce signature\nbyproducts whose measure would then set a lower bound on the \nextent of recent infection. I realize this might get quite \ntricky and difficult, probably expensive, and likely inconvenient\nor uncomfortable to the subjects, but that is not the same as \n"virtually impossible."\n\nRussell\n',
"From: jprzybyl@skidmore.edu (jennifer przybylinski)\nSubject: Re: Hell_2: Black Sabbath\nOrganization: Skidmore College, Saratoga Springs NY\nLines: 14\n\nHey...\n\nI may be wrong, but wasn't Jeff Fenholt part of Black Sabbath? He's a\nMAJOR brother in Christ now. He totally changed his life around, and\nhe and his wife go on tours singing, witnessing, and spreading the\ngospel for Christ. I may be wrong about Black Sabbath, but I know he\nwas in a similar band if it wasn't that particular group...\n\nHOW GREAT IS TH LOVE THE FATHER HAS LAVISHED ON US, THAT WE SHOULD BE\nCALLED CHILDREN OF GOD! AND THAT IS WHAT WE ARE! (1 JOHN 3:1)\n\nGrace and peace to all, (I'll see you ALL Someday!)\nJenny\njprzybyl@scott.skidmore.edu\n",
"From: sfp@lemur.cit.cornell.edu (Sheila Patterson)\nSubject: Re: Being right about messiahs\nOrganization: Cornell University CIT\nLines: 14\n\nJesus isn't God ? When Jesus returns some people may miss Him ? What version of\nthe Bible do you read Mike ?\n\nJesus is God incarnate (in flesh) . Jesus said, 'I and the Father are one.' \nJesus was taken up to heaven after His 40 day post-resurrection stint and the\nangels who were there assured the apostles that Jesus would return the same way\nand that everyone will see the coming. That's why Jesus warned that many would\ncome claiming to be Him but that we would know when Jesus actually returns. \n\nThese are two very large parts of my faith and you definitely hit a nerve :-)\n\n-Sheila Patterson, CIT CR-Technical Support \n Cornell University\n Ithaca, NY\n",
"From: phew@gu.uwa.edu.au (Patrick Hew)\nSubject: Re: Color pict of spinning Earth\nOrganization: The University of Western Australia\nLines: 22\nNNTP-Posting-Host: mackerel.gu.uwa.edu.au\n\nESTOP07@CONRAD.APPSTATE.EDU (*ACS) writes:\n\n>Sorry if this is the wrong place to post this\n\n>\tI was crusing the net earlier this year and came upon something called \n>Color pict of spinning earth. I am assuming it is a animation sequence of the \n>earth's rotation (or revolution I always get those mixed up). At the time I \n>found it my sysem would not even support color graphics so I didn't bother to \n>get the pict. Now I have a fairly nice system and cant find the pict again!\n>If anyone can help please post here or E-mail me \n>Thanks in advance\n>Eric (Estop07@conrad.appstate.edu)\n\nLikewise for me please. First time I've hear of it, but I've beem looking\nfor something like this for the past few months.\n\nPatrick Hew\n2nd Year Science/ Engineering\nUniversity of Western Australia\nphew@tartarus.uwa.edu.au\nphew@mackerel.gu.uwa.edu.au\n\n",
"From: jodfishe@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (joseph dale fisher)\nSubject: Re: Deification\nOrganization: Indiana University\nLines: 14\n\nIn article <Apr.10.05.30.35.1993.14329@athos.rutgers.edu> HOLFELTZ@LSTC2VM.stortek.com writes:\n>Aaron Bryce Cardenas writes:\n>After all, what does prophesy mean? Secondly, what is an Apostle? Answer:\n>an especial witness--one who is suppose to be a personal witness. That means\n>to be a true apostle, one must have Christ appear to them. Now lets see\n>when did the church quit claiming ......?\n\nActually, an apostle is someone who is sent. If you will, mailmen could\nbe called apostles in that sense. However, with Jesus, they were\ndesignated and were given power. Remember that there were many\nthousands of people who witnessed what Jesus did. That didn't make them\napostles, though.\n\nJoe Fisher\n",
"From: xz775327@longs.LANCE.ColoState.Edu (Xia Zhao)\nSubject: more on radiosity\nNntp-Posting-Host: zirkel.lance.colostate.edu\nOrganization: Colorado State U. Engineering College\nKeywords: radiosity\nLines: 45\n\n\n\nIn article <1993Apr19.131239.11670@aragorn.unibe.ch>, you write:\n|>\n|>\n|> Let's be serious... I'm working on a radiosity package, written in C++.\n|> I would like to make it public domain. I'll announce it in c.g. the minute\n|> I finished it.\n|>\n|> That were the good news. The bad news: It'll take another 2 months (at least)\n|> to finish it.\n\n\n Are you using the traditional radiosity method, progressive refinement, or\n something else in your package?\n\n If you need to project patches on the hemi-cube surfaces, what technique are\n you using? Do you have hardware to facilitate the projection?\n\n\n|>\n|> In the meantime you may have a look at the file\n|> Radiosity_code.tar.Z\n|> located at\n|> compute1.cc.ncsu.edu\n\n\n What are the guest username and password for this ftp site?\n\n\n|>\n|> (there are some other locations; have a look at archie to get the nearest)\n|>\n|> Hope that'll help.\n|>\n|> Yours\n|>\n|> Stephan\n|>\n\n\n Thanks, Stephan.\n\n\n Josephine\n",
"From: jayne@mmalt.guild.org (Jayne Kulikauskas)\nSubject: Re: post\nOrganization: Kulikauskas home\nLines: 30\n\njono@mac-ak-24.rtsg.mot.com (Jon Ogden) writes:\n\n> My advice is this: If you know someone that you have the hots for who is\n> NOT a Christian, befriend them and try to develop just a friendship with\n> them. At the same time, witness and share the gospel with them, not so\n> that you can date them, but so that they can be saved. Once they become a\n> Christian, then it is quite possible to let the relationship progress\n> beyond friendship. However, if they don't accept Christ, you still have a\n> good friendship and you haven't wasted a lot of emotional energy and gotten\n> hurt.\n\nWhile I agree with most of Jon says (I deleted those parts, of course), I \nhave serious reservations about this advice. Maintaining a `just \nfriends' level of relationship is much easier said than done. People \nusually end up getting hurt. This is especially likely to happen when \nthey start off with feelings of attraction. \n\nWhen people feel attracted those feelings can cloud their judgement. \nI've had the experience of going quickly from believing that I shouldn't \ndate non-Christians to believing that dating this man would be okay to \nbelieving that premarital sex is fine when people really love each \nother. When the relationship ended my beliefs immediately returned to \ntheir original state. \n\nThis is an especially extreme case because I was young and away from home \nand fellowship. I don't think it would work exactly this way for most \npeople. However, it's important not to underestimate the power of \nfeelings of attraction. \n\nJayne Kulikauskas/ jayne@mmalt.guild.org\n",
'From: mussack@austin.ibm.com (Chris Mussack)\nSubject: Re: The arrogance of Christians\nReply-To: mussack@austin.ibm.com\nLines: 14\n\nIn article <Apr.10.05.32.15.1993.14385@athos.rutgers.edu>, dleonar@andy.bgsu.edu\n (Pixie) writes:\n> \n> Do the words "Question Authority" mean anything to you?\n> \n> I defy any theist to reply. \n\nFor all those people who insist I question authority: Why?\n\nChris Mussack\n\n(This is another example of my biting, raw-edged humor that is\nneither appreciated nor understood by everyone.)\n#8;-)> {Messy hair, glasses, winking, smiling, big chin}\n',
"From: davidr@rincon.ema.rockwell.com (David J. Ray)\nSubject: Re: TIFF: philosophical significance of 42\nOrganization: Rockwell International\nX-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5\nLines: 16\n\nMartin Preston (prestonm@cs.man.ac.uk) wrote:\n: In <C5sCGu.1LL@mentor.cc.purdue.edu> ab@nova.cc.purdue.edu (Allen B) writes:\n: \n: >I've got the 6.0 spec (obviously since I quoted it in my last posting). \n: >My gripe about TIFF is that it's far too complicated and nearly\n: >infinitely easier to write than to read,...\n: \n: Why not use the PD C library for reading/writing TIFF files? It took me a\n: good 20 minutes to start using them in your own app.\n: \n: Martin\n: \nWhat is the name of this PD C library for TIFF. I'd like to get a copy of it,\nbut I can't Archie for something I don't have the filename for.\n\nThanks.\n",
'From: tedr@athena.cs.uga.edu (Ted Kalivoda)\nSubject: Re: Christianity and repeated lives\nOrganization: University of Georgia, Athens\nLines: 20\n\nIn article <May.7.01.09.36.1993.14545@athos.rutgers.edu> danc@procom.com (Daniel Cossack) writes:\n>JEK@cu.nih.gov writes:\n>>The Apostle Paul (Romans 9:11) points out that God chose Jacob\n>>rather than Esau... If we admit the possibility that they had lived previous\n>>lives, and that (in accordance with the Asiatic idea of "karma")\n>\n>And following Romans to 9:13, "As it is written, Jacob have I loved,\n>but Esau have I hated." How could God have loved and hated (in the\n>past tense) those that are not yet born, neither having done good\n>or evil?\n\nWoah...The context is about God\'s calling out a special people (the Jews) to\ncarry the "promise." To read the meaning as literal people is to miss Paul\'s\nentire point. I\'d be glad to send anyone more detailed explanations of this\npassage if interested.\n\n==================================== \nTed Kalivoda (tedr@athena.cs.uga.edu)\nUniversity of Georgia, Athens\nInstitute of Higher Ed. \n',
"From: lineber@lonestar.utsa.edu (Jerry M. Lineberry)\nSubject: Pov-ray problem / Please Help...\nNntp-Posting-Host: lonestar.utsa.edu\nOrganization: University of Texas at San Antonio\nLines: 12\n\nHello,\n I've recently had Povray draw about 10 sample files. The problem is that\nI accidently erased the command in my povray.def that made the image a targas\nfile. So now the files are the dump format. How do I fix these files with out\nhaving to re-trace them? By fix I mean, turn them into targas. Thanks in\nadvance.\n -Jerry\n-- \n#################################################################\nJerry M. Lineberry\nInterNet : lineber@lonestar.utsa.edu or CompuServe : 71221,3015\n#################################################################\n",
'From: mangoe@cs.umd.edu (Charley Wingate)\nSubject: Re: A Little Too Satanic\nOrganization: U of Maryland, Dept. of Computer Science, Coll. Pk., MD 20742\nLines: 43\n\nJon Livesey writes:\n\n>So why do I read in the papers that the Qumram texts had "different\n>versions" of some OT texts. Did I misunderstand?\n\nReading newspapers to learn about this kind of stuff is not the best idea in\nthe world. Newspaper reporters are notoriously ignorant on the subject of\nreligion, and are prone to exaggeration in the interests of having a "real"\nstory (that is, a bigger headline).\n\nLet\'s back up to 1935. At this point, we have the Masoretic text, the\nvarious targums (translations/commentaries in aramaic, etc.), and the\nSeptuagint, the ancient greek translation. The Masoretic text is the\nstandard Jewish text and essentially does not vary. In some places it has\nobvious corruptions, all of which are copied faithfully from copy to copy.\nThese passages in the past were interpreted by reference to the targums and\nto the Septuagint.\n\nNow, the septuagint differs from the masoretic text in two particulars:\nfirst, it includes additional texts, and second, in some passages there are\nvariant readings from the masoretic text (in addition to "fixing"/predating\nthe various corrupted passages). It must be emphasized that, to the best of\nmy knowledge, these variations are only signifcant to bible scholars, and\nhave little theological import.\n\nThe dead sea scroll materials add to this an ancient *copy* of almost all of\nIsaiah and fragments of various sizes of almost all other OT books. There\nis also an abundance of other material, but as far as I know, there is no\nsign there of any hebrew antecdent to the apocrypha (the extra texts in the\nseptuagint). As far as analysis has proceeded, there are also variations\nbetween the DSS texts and the masoretic versions. These tend to reflect the\nseptuagint, where the latter isn\'t obviously in error. Again, though, the\ndifferences (thus far) are not significant theologically. There is this big\nexpectation that there are great theological surprises lurking in the\nmaterial, but so far this hasn\'t happened.\n\nThe DSS *are* important because there is almost no textual tradition in the\nOT, unlike for the NT.\n-- \nC. Wingate + "The peace of God, it is no peace,\n + but strife closed in the sod.\nmangoe@cs.umd.edu + Yet, brothers, pray for but one thing:\ntove!mangoe + the marv\'lous peace of God."\n',
'From: sliew@ee.mu.OZ.AU (Selbyn Liew)\nSubject: Re: An agnostic\'s question\nOrganization: Dept of E & E Eng, U of M\nLines: 79\n\nIn article <Apr.17.01.11.16.1993.2265@geneva.rutgers.edu> jdt@voodoo.ca.boeing.com (Jim Tomlinson (jimt II)) writes:\n\n[..]\n\n>goodness that is within the power of each of us. Now, the\n>complication is that one of my best friends has become very\n>fundamentalist. That would normally be a non-issue with me, but he\n\nHello. Firstly, what do you exactly mean by "fundamentalist"? I will\nfor the time being assume that what you mean is that your friend believes\nthat the bible is God\'s word to mankind? I suspect that what happened\nto him is what he\'ll call being "born again"? Anyway, was that recent?\nIf the answer is "yes" to all the questions above, it is quite\nunderstandable. However, IMO, I\'ld rather give advice to your friend!\nI think I\'ve been through something similar to him, and one thing I can\nsay is that the basic problem is that each of you are now trying to\ncommunicate from different worldviews. Why he talks about those things\nis because they are now "obvious" to him. What is "obvious" to him is\nnot obvious to you. Secondly, why he may be very persuasive is because\nfrom his point of view, he has been on "both sides of the fence". This\nI mean that before he turned "fundamentalist", you two are agreeable\nbecause both of you see things from the same side. If suddenly, as if\na new world of reality has suddenly opened up to him, it is like the\ndiscovery of let\'s say a new continent, or a new planet. To him, he\'s\ngot to tell you because he has seen something much more wonderful than\nwhere he was, and what he thinks is much better than where you are now.\nYou have got to realise that from his point of view, he means well to\nyou, eventhough he may end up offending you. To him, it is worth that\nrisk. Nevertheless, it is really up to him to respect where you stand\nand listen to you as well. At this moment, it may be difficult because\nhe is either very excited or feel it is too urgent to keep quiet about,\nhowever, he may not realise that he\'s really putting you off.\n\n[...]\n\n>the Bible that it is so.\' So my question is, how can I convince him\n>that this is a subject better left undiscussed, so we can preserve\n>what is (in all areas other than religious beliefs) a great\n>friendship? How do I convince him that I am \'beyond saving\' so he\n>won\'t try? Thanks for any advice.\n\nSo far, I\'ve only been trying to explain things from his side. However,\nI do understand how you feel too, because I wasn\'t a Christian for a good\npart of my life as well. I was quite turned off by Christians or\n"fundamentalists" who were really all out and enthusiastic about their\nfaith. They really scared me, to tell you the truth. Unfortunately,\n"religious belief" is a very personal thing, just as your agnosticism\nis also a very personal thing to you. Since the Christian belief is\ninevitably at odds with anything non-Christian (religious or otherwise),\nit will be a touchy matter. Like all friendships, it will take both\nsides to do their part to make it work. In this matter, maybe you can\ndo your part by telling him nicely that you are not able to dig what he\'s\ntrying to convince you about, that it\'s beyond you or not your concern\n"for now". Don\'t tell him it\'s nonsense, because to him it is reality -\nand that would be a real insult. He\'ll also have to be careful not to\ninsult where you stand too.\n\nLike I said before, I wish I could give your friend some advice too.\nI\'ll admit that I did similarly to some of my friends when I became a\nChristian. In some ways, I wish I could have done things a little\ndifferently. However, it was difficult then because I was so excited\nand just blabbered away about what I\'ve found! To me, it was too good\nnot to know. To some, I was crazy, and I didn\'t really care most of\nthe time what they thought. You will probably think he\'s crazy too -\nbut God is very real to him, as real as you are to him. Keep that in\nmind. And he thinks he can convince you because since God is so real\nto him, he doesn\'t see why God can\'t be real to you too.\n\nI don\'t know how helpful this is to you. But all the best anyhow -\nthis is quite a challenge for you to face. By the way, personal\nconviction: nobody is "beyond saving" except the one we call the \ndevil and his hosts.\n\nRegards,\nSelbyn Liew\n==========================================================================\nDept. of EE Engineering, University of Melbourne, Victoria 3052, Australia\nEMAIL: sliew@mullian.ee.mu.oz.au PH: +61-3-3447976 FAX: +61-3-3446678\n==========================================================================\n',
'From: ray@netcom.com (Ray Fischer)\nSubject: Re: After 2000 years, can we say that Christian Morality is\nOrganization: Netcom. San Jose, California\nLines: 91\n\nfrank@D012S658.uucp (Frank O\'Dwyer) writes ...\n> ray@netcom.com (Ray Fischer) writes:\n>#frank@D012S658.uucp (Frank O\'Dwyer) writes ...\n>#>Plus questions for you: why do subjectivists/relativists/nihilists get so \n>#>het up about the idea that relativism is *better* than objectivism? \n>#\n>#To the degree that relativism is a more accurate decription of the\n>#truth than is objectivism, it provides more power and ability to\n>#control events.\n>\n>I think you lose the right to talk about THE truth once you say values are\n>relative. Accuracy is a value judgement, too. It so happens I agree with \n>the substance of what you say below, but it\'s clear to me that at least \n>*some* values are objective. Truth is better than falsehood, peace is\n>better than war, education is better than ignorance. We know these things,\n>if we know anything.\n\nWhile I\'ll agree that these are generally held to be "good things", I\nquestion whether they come very close to being objective values.\nEspecially considering that at one time or another each has been\nviewed as being undesirable. I doubt you could even come up with\nanything that could be said to be universally "good" or "bad".\n\nAnd when I referred to "the truth" I was using the term\nhypothetically, realizing full well that there may not even be such a\nthing.\n\n>#Assuming, for the moment, that morals _are_ relative, then two\n>#relativists can recognize that neither has a lock on the absolute\n>#truth and they can proceed to negotiate a workable compromise that\n>#produces the desired results.\n>\n>No they cannot, because they acknowledge up front that THE desired\n>results do not exist. That, after all, is the meaning of compromise.\n>\n>Plus some problems: If the relativists have no values in common, compromise \n>is impossible - what happens then? Who, if anyone, is right? What happens \n>if one relativist has a value "Never compromise?". A value "plant bombs in \n>crowded shopping areas"? After all, if morals are relative, these values \n>cannot *meaningfully* be said to be incorrect.\n\nTrue enough. But they cannot be said to be anything more than\npersonal morals. One thing notably lacking in most extremists is any\nsense of _personal_ accountability - the justification for any\nsocially unacceptable behaviour is invariably some "higher authority"\n(aka, absolute moral truth).\n\n>#Assuming that there is an absolute morality, two disagreeing \n>#objectivists can either be both wrong or just one of them right; there\n>#is no room for compromise. Once you beleive in absolute morals,\n>#you must accept that you are amoral or that everyone who disagrees\n>#with you is amoral.\n>\n>Untrue. One can accept that one does not know the whole truth. Part\n>of the objective truth about morality may well be that flexibility is\n>better than rigidity, compromise is better than believing you have a lock\n>on morals, etc. In the same way, I can believe in an objective reality\n>without claiming to know the mechanism for quantum collapse, or who shot\n>JFK.\n\nAn objective truth that says one cannot know the objective truth?\nInteresting notion. :-)\n\nCertainly one can have as one\'s morals a belief that compromise is\ngood. But to compromise on the absolute truth is not something most\npeople do very successfully. I suppose one could hold compromise as\nbeing an absolute moral, but then what happens when someone else\ninsists on no compromise? How do you compromise on compromising?\n\n>#Given a choice between a peaceful compromise or endless contention,\n>#I\'d say that compromise seems to be "better".\n>\n>And I would agree. But it\'s bloody to pointless to speak of it if it\'s\n>merely a matter of taste. Is your liking for peace any better founded\n>than someone else\'s liking for ice-cream? I\'m looking for a way to say\n>"yes" to that question, and relativism isn\'t it.\n\nAlmost invariably when considering the relative value of one thing\nover another, be it morals or consequences, people only consider those\naspects which justify a desired action or belief. In justifying a\ncommitement to peace I might argue that it lets people live long &\nhealthy and peaceful lives. While that much may well be true, it is\nincomplete in ignoring the benefits of war - killing off the most\nagressive member of society, trimming down the population, stimulating\nproduction. The equation is always more complex than presented.\nTo characterize relative morals as merely following one\'s own\nconscience / desires is to unduly simplify it.\n\n-- \nRay Fischer "Convictions are more dangerous enemies of truth\nray@netcom.com than lies." -- Friedrich Nietzsche\n',
"From: tlc@cx5.com\nSubject: .SCF files, help needed\nReply-To: tlc@cx5.com\nOrganization: CX5 (San Francisco)\nLines: 24\n\n\n\nI've got an old demo disk that I need to view. It was made using RIX Softworks. \nThe files on the two diskette set end with: .scf\n\nThe demo was VGA resolution (256 colors), but I don't know the spatial \nresolution.\n\nFirst problem: When I try to run the demo, the screen has two black bars that \ncut across (horizontally) the screen, in the top third and bottom third of the \nscreen. The bars are about 1-inch wide. Other than this, the demo (the \nanimation part) seems to be running fine.\n\nSecond problem: I can't find any graphics program that will open and display \nthese files. I have a couple of image conversion programs, none mention .scf \nfiles.\n\nThe system I am using: 486clone, Diamond Speedstar 24, Sony monitor.\n\nAny suggestions?\n\nThank You,\nT. Castro\ntlc@cx5.com\n",
'From: Deon.Strydom@f7.n7104.z5.fidonet.org (Deon Strydom)\nSubject: Re: Prophetic Warning to New York City\nLines: 32\n\n--> Note:\nReply to a message in soc.religion.christian.\n\nEVENSON THOMAS RANDALL wrote in a message to All:\n\n> Which brings me around to asking an open question. Is the\n> Bible a closed book of Scripture? Is it okay for us to go\n> around saying "God told me this" and "Jesus told me that"? \n\n> Also interesting to note is that some so called prophecies\n> are nothing new but rather an inspired translation of\n> scripture. Is it right to call that prophecy? Misleading? \n\nHi, You might want to read Charismatic Chaos by John MacArthur. In it\nhe discussed exactly this queation, amongst others. In my own words,\nVERY simplified, his position is basically that one must decide, what\nis the most important - experience or Scripture? People tend to say\nScripture, without living according to that. Their own\nfeeling/prophecy/etc tends to be put across without testing in the\nlight of Scripture.\n\nThere\'s a lot more than this, really worthwhile to read whether you\'re\nCharismatic or not.\n\nGroetnis (=cheers)\n Deon\n\n--- timEd/B8\n-- \nINTERNET: Deon.Strydom@f7.n7104.z5.fidonet.org\nvia: THE CATALYST BBS in Port Elizabeth, South Africa.\n (catpe.alt.za) +27-41-34-1122 HST or +27-41-34-2859, V32bis & HST.\n',
"From: walkup@cs.washington.edu (Elizabeth Walkup)\nSubject: Re: Menangitis question\nOrganization: Computer Science & Engineering, U. of Washington, Seattle\nDistribution: na\nLines: 19\n\nIn article <19439@pitt.UUCP> geb@cs.pitt.edu (Gordon Banks) writes:\n>... the neiseria meningococcus is one of the most common\n>forms of meningitis. It's the one that sometimes sweeps\n>schools or boot camp. It is contagious and kills by attacking\n>the covering of the brain, causing the blood vessels to thrombose\n>and the brain to swell up.\n>\n>\t...\n>\n>It can live in the throat of carriers. Don't worry, you won't get \n>it from them, especially if they took the medication.\n\nAssuming one has been cultured as having a throat laden with\nneiseria meningococcus and given (and taken) a course of ERYC \nwithout the culture becoming negative, should one worry about\nbeing a carrier? \n\n-- Elizabeth\n walkup@cs.washington.edu\n",
'From: davem@bnr.ca (Dave Mielke)\nSubject: Does God love you?\nOrganization: Bell Northern Research, Ottawa, Canada\nLines: 416\n\nI have come across what I consider to be an excellent tract. It is a\nbit lengthy for a posting, but I thought I\'d share it with all of you\nanyway. Feel free to pass it along to anyone whom you feel might\nbenefit from what it says. May God richly bless those who read it.\n \n=======================================================================\n \n D O E S G O D L O V E Y O U ?\n \n \nQ. What kind of question is that? Anyone who can read sees signs,\n tracts, books, and bumper stickers that say, "God Loves You." Isn\'t\n that true?\n \nA. It is true that God offers His love to the whole world, as we read\n in one of the most quoted verses in the Bible:\n \n For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten\n Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but\n have everlasting life. John 3:16\n \n However, God\'s love is qualified. The Bible says:\n \n The way of the wicked is an abomination unto the LORD: but he\n loveth him that followeth after righteousness. Proverbs 15:9\n \n For the LORD knoweth the way of the righteous: but the way of\n the ungodly shall perish. Psalm 1:6\n \n \nQ. But I am not wicked. I am a decent, moral person. Surely the good\n I have done in my life far outweighs whatever bad I have done. How\n can these verses apply to me?\n \nA. By God\'s standard of righteousness even the most moral person is\n looked upon by God as a desperate sinner on his way to Hell. The\n Bible teaches that no one is good enough in himself to go to Heaven.\n On the contrary, we are all sinners and we are all guilty before\n God.\n \n As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: There\n is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after\n God. Romans 3:10-11\n \n The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately\n wicked: who can know it? Jeremiah 17:9\n \n \nQ. If I am such a wicked person in God\'s sight, what will God do to me?\n \nA. The Bible teaches that at the end of the world all the wicked will\n come under eternal punishment in a place called Hell.\n \n For a fire is kindled in mine anger, and shall burn unto the\n lowest hell, and shall consume the earth with her increase,\n and set on fire the foundations of the mountains. I will heap\n mischiefs upon them; I will spend mine arrows upon them. They\n shall be burnt with hunger, and devoured with burning heat,\n and with bitter destruction: I will also send the teeth of\n beasts upon them, with the poison of serpents of the dust.\n Deuteronomy 32:22-24\n \n \nQ. Oh, come on now! Hell is not real, is it? Surely things are not\n that bad.\n \nA. Indeed, Hell is very real, and things are that bad for the individ-\n ual who does not know the Lord Jesus Christ as Savior. The Bible\n makes many references to Hell, indicating that it is both eternal\n and consists of perpetual suffering.\n \n And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was\n cast into the lake of fire. Revelation 20:15\n \n So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come\n forth, and sever the wicked from among the just, And shall\n cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and\n gnashing of teeth. Matthew 13:49-50\n \n ... when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with\n his mighty angels, In flaming fire taking vengeance on them\n that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord\n Jesus Christ: Who shall be punished with everlasting\n destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory\n of his power; 2 Thessalonians 1:7-9\n \n \nQ. That is terrible! Why would God create a Hell?\n \nA. Hell is terrible, and it exists because God created man to be\n accountable to God for his actions. God\'s perfect justice demands\n payment for sin.\n \n For the wages of sin is death; Romans 6:23\n \n For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ;\n that every one may receive the things done in his body,\n according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.\n 2 Corinthians 5:10\n \n But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak,\n they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.\n Matthew 12:36\n \n \nQ. Does that mean that at the end of the world everyone will be brought\n to life again to be judged and then to be sent to Hell?\n \nA. Indeed it does; that is, unless we can find someone to be our\n substitute in bearing the punishment of eternal damnation for our\n sins. That someone is God Himself, who came to earth as Jesus\n Christ to bear the wrath of God for all who believe in Him.\n \n All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one\n to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of\n us all. Isaiah 53:6\n \n But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for\n our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him;\n and with his stripes we are healed. Isaiah 53:5\n \n For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also\n received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the\n scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the\n third day according to the scriptures: 1 Corinthians 15:3-4\n \n For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that\n we might be made the righteousness of God in him.\n 2 Corinthians 5:21\n \n \nQ. Are you saying that if I trust in Christ as my substitute, Who was\n already punished for my sins, then I will not have to worry about\n Hell anymore?\n \nA. Yes, this is so! If I have believed in Christ as my Savior, then it\n is as if I have already stood before the Judgment Throne of God.\n Christ as my substitute has already paid for my sins.\n \n He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he\n that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath\n of God abideth on him. John 3:36\n \n \nQ. But what does it mean to believe on Him? If I agree with all that\n the Bible says about Christ as Savior, then am I saved from going to\n Hell?\n \nA. Believing on Christ means a whole lot more than agreeing in our\n minds with the truths of the Bible. It means that we hang our whole\n lives on Him. It means that we entrust every part of our lives to\n the truths of the Bible. It means that we turn away from our sins\n and serve Christ as our Lord.\n \n No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one,\n and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and\n despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.\n Matthew 6:24\n \n Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be\n blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the\n presence of the Lord; Acts 3:19\n \n \nQ. Are you saying that there is no other way to escape Hell except\n through Jesus? What about all the other religions? Will their\n followers also go to Hell?\n \nA. Yes, indeed. They cannot escape the fact that God holds us account-\n able for our sins. God demands that we pay for our sins. Other\n religions cannot provide a substitute to bear the sins of their\n followers. Christ is the only one who is able to bear our guilt and\n save us.\n \n Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none\n other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be\n saved. Acts 4:12\n \n Jesus said:\n \n I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the\n Father, but by me. John 14:6\n \n If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us\n our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.\n 1 John 1:9\n \n \nQ. Now I am desperate. I do not want to go to Hell. What can I do?\n \nA. You must remember that God is the only one who can help you. You\n must throw yourself altogether on the mercies of God. As you see\n your hopeless condition as a sinner, cry out to God to save you.\n \n And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much\n as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying,\n God be merciful to me a sinner. Luke 18:13\n \n ... Sirs, what must I do to be saved? And they said, Believe\n on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, ...\n Acts 16:30-31\n \n \nQ. But how can I believe on Christ if I know so little about Him?\n \nA. Wonderfully, God not only saves us through the Lord Jesus, but He\n also gives us the faith to believe on Him. You can pray to God that\n He will give you faith in Jesus Christ as your Savior.\n \n For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of\n yourselves: it is the gift of God: Ephesians 2:8\n \n God works particularly through the Bible to give us that faith. So,\n if you really mean business with God about your salvation, you\n should use every opportunity to hear and study the Bible, which is\n the only Word of God.\n In this brochure, all verses from the Bible are within indented\n paragraphs. Give heed to them with all your heart.\n \n So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of\n God. Romans 10:17\n \n \nQ. But does this mean that I have to surrender everything to God?\n \nA. Yes. God wants us to come to Him in total humility, acknowledging\n our sinfulness and our helplessness, trusting totally in Him.\n \n The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit: a broken and a\n contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise. Psalm 51:17\n \n Because we are sinners we love our sins. Therefore, we must begin\n to pray to God for an intense hatred of our sins. And if we\n sincerely desire salvation, we will also begin to turn from our sins\n as God strengthens us. We know that our sins are sending us to\n Hell.\n \n Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him\n to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his\n iniquities. Acts 3:26\n \n \nQ. Doesn\'t the Bible teach that I must attend church regularly and be\n baptized? Will these save me?\n \nA. If possible, we should do these things, but they will not save us.\n No work of any kind can secure our salvation. Salvation is God\'s\n sovereign gift of grace given according to His mercy and good pleas-\n ure. Salvation is\n \n Not of works, lest any man should boast. Ephesians 2:9\n \n \nQ. What else will happen at the end of the world?\n \nA. Those who have trusted in Jesus as their Savior will be transformed\n into their glorious eternal bodies and will be with Christ forever-\n more.\n \n For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout,\n with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God:\n and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are\n alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the\n clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be\n with the Lord. 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17\n \n \nQ. What will happen to the earth at that time?\n \nA. God will destroy the entire universe by fire and create new heavens\n and a new earth where Christ will reign with His believers forever-\n more.\n \n But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in\n the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and\n the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and\n the works that are therein shall be burned up. ...\n Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new\n heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.\n 2 Peter 3:10,13\n \n \nQ. Does the Bible give us any idea of when the end of the earth will\n come?\n \nA. Yes! The end will come when Christ has saved all whom He plans to\n save.\n \n And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the\n world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end\n come. Matthew 24:14\n \n \nQ. Can we know how close to the end of the world we might be?\n \nA. Yes! God gives much information in the Bible concerning the timing\n of the history of the world and tells us that while the Day of the\n Lord will come as a thief in the night for the unsaved, it will not\n come as a thief for the believers. There is much evidence in the\n Bible that the end of the world and the return of Christ may be\n very, very close.* All the time clues in the Bible point to this.\n \n For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden\n destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with\n child; and they shall not escape. 1 Thessalonians 5:3\n \n Surely the Lord GOD will do nothing, but he revealeth his\n secret unto his servants the prophets. Amos 3:7\n \n \nQ. But that means Judgment Day is almost here.\n \nA. Yes, it does. God warned ancient Nineveh that He was going to\n destroy that great city and He gave them forty days warning.\n \n And Jonah began to enter into the city a day\'s journey, and he\n cried, and said, Yet forty days, and Nineveh shall be\n overthrown. Jonah 3:4\n \n \nQ. What did the people of Nineveh do?\n \nA. From the king on down they humbled themselves before God, repented\n of their sins, and cried to God for mercy.\n \n But let man and beast be covered with sackcloth, and cry\n mightily unto God: yea, let them turn every one from his evil\n way, and from the violence that is in their hands. Who can\n tell if God will turn and repent, and turn away from his\n fierce anger, that we perish not? Jonah 3:8-9\n \n \nQ. Did God hear their prayers?\n \nA. Yes. God saved a great many people of Nineveh.\n \n \nQ. Can I still cry to God for mercy so that I will not come into judg-\n ment?\n \nA. Yes. There is still time to become saved even though that time has\n become very short.\n \n How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which\n at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed\n unto us by them that heard him; Hebrews 2:3\n \n In God is my salvation and my glory: the rock of my strength,\n and my refuge, is in God. Trust in him at all times; ye\n people, pour out your heart before him: God is a refuge for\n us. Psalm 62:7-8\n \n \n \n \n A R E Y O U R E A D Y T O M E E T G O D ?\n \n \n \nA book entitled 1994?, written by Harold Camping, presents Biblical\ninformation that we may be very near the end of time. For information\non how to obtain a copy or to receive a free program guide and list of\nradio stations on which you can hear our Gospel programs, please write\nto Family Radio, Oakland, California, 94621 (The United States of Amer-\nica), or call 1-800-543-1495.\n \n ----------------------------------------\n \n \nThe foregoing is a copy of the "Does God Love You?" tract printed by,\nand available free of charge from, Family Radio. A number of minor\nchanges have been made to its layout to facilitate computer printing\nand distribution. The only change to the text itself is the paragraph\nwhich describes the way in which Biblical passages appear within the\ntext. In the original tract they appear in italic lettering; they\nappear here as indented paragraphs.\n \n \nI have read Mr. Camping\'s book, compared it with what the Bible actual-\nly says, find it to be the most credible research with respect to what\nthe future holds that I have ever come across, and agree with him that\nthere is just too much data to ignore. While none of us is guaranteed\none more second of life, and while we, therefore, should take these\nmatters very seriously regardless of when Christ will actually return,\nit would appear that our natural tendency to postpone caring about our\neternal destiny until we feel that our death is imminent is even more\nsenseless now because, in all likelihood, the law of averages with\nrespect to life expectancy no longer applies. If you wish to obtain a\ncopy of this book so that you can check out these facts for yourself,\nyou may find the following information helpful:\n \n title: 1994?\n author: Harold Camping\n publisher: Vantage Press\n distributor: Baker and Taylor\n ISBN: 0-533-10368-1\n \n \nI have chosen to share this tract with you because I whole-heartedly\nagree with everything it declares and feel that now, perhaps more than\never before, this information must be made known. To paraphrase Acts\n20:27, it does not shun to declare unto us all the counsel of God. I\nam always willing to discuss the eternal truths of the Bible with\nanyone who is interested as I believe them to be the only issues of any\nreal importance since we will spend, comparatively speaking, so little\ntime on this side of the grave and so much on the other. Feel free to\nget in touch with me at any time:\n \n e-mail: davem@bnr.ca\n office: 1-613-765-4671\n home: 1-613-726-0014\n \n Dave Mielke\n 856 Grenon Avenue\n Ottawa, Ontario, Canada\n K2B 6G3\n',
"From: kruzifix@netcom.com (Living On The Edge......)\nSubject: IMAGINE for PC??\nOrganization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)\nLines: 8\n\nIs Impulse shipping IMAGINE for the PC386/486? How close is it to the\nAmiga's IMAGINE 2.0, in terms of features?\n\n=============================================================================\n Roland Chia | >>> Air-Cooled >>> \n EMAIL:kruzifix@netcom.com | >>> Free-Falling >>> \n VOICE:(209)447-9403 | >>> Carbon Unit >>> \n=============================================================================\n",
'From: keith@cco.caltech.edu (Keith Allan Schneider)\nSubject: Re: <Political Atheists?\nOrganization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena\nLines: 14\nNNTP-Posting-Host: punisher.caltech.edu\n\nkcochran@nyx.cs.du.edu (Keith "Justified And Ancient" Cochran) writes:\n\n>>No, that\'s just what you thought the theory meant. While all humans\n>>are generally capable of overpowering their instincts, it does not\n>>follow that those who do this often are necessarily more intelligent.\n>Ok, so why aren\'t animals "generally capable of overpowering their instincts"?\n\nGood question. I\'m sure some biologist could answer better than I,\nbut animals brains are just set up differently.\n\nAnimals *can* be trained, but if they\'re instincts serve them well, there is\nno reason to contradict them.\n\nkeith\n',
"From: bil@okcforum.osrhe.edu (Bill Conner)\nSubject: Re: Bill Conner:\nNntp-Posting-Host: okcforum.osrhe.edu\nOrganization: Okcforum Unix Users Group\nX-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL9]\nLines: 6\n\n\nCould you explain what any of this pertains to? Is this a position\nstatement on something or typing practice? And why are you using my\nname, do you think this relates to anything I've said and if so, what.\n\nBill\n",
'From: caf@omen.UUCP (Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX)\nSubject: Re: My New Diet --> IT WORKS GREAT !!!!\nOrganization: Omen Technology INC, Portland Rain Forest\nLines: 38\n\nIn article <C5wC7G.4EG@toads.pgh.pa.us> geb@cs.pitt.edu (Gordon Banks) writes:\n>In article <1993Apr22.001642.9186@omen.UUCP> caf@omen.UUCP (Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX) writes:\n>\n>>>>>Can you provide a reference to substantiate that gaining back\n>>>>>the lost weight does not constitute "weight rebound" until it\n>>>>>exceeds the starting weight? Or is this oral tradition that\n>>>>>is shared only among you obesity researchers?\n>>>>\n>>>>Annals of NY Acad. Sci. 1987\n>>>>\n>>>Hmmm. These don\'t look like references to me. Is passive-aggressive\n>>>behavior associated with weight rebound? :-)\n>>\n>>I purposefully left off the page numbers to encourage the reader to\n>>study the volumes mentioned, and benefit therefrom.\n>>\n>\n>Good story, Chuck, but it won\'t wash. I have read the NY Acad Sci\n>one (and have it). This AM I couldn\'t find any reference to\n>"weight rebound". I\'m not saying it isn\'t there, but since you\n>cited it, it is your responsibility to show me where it is in there.\n>There is no index. I suspect you overstepped your knowledge base,\n>as usual.\n>----------------------------------------------------------------------------\n>Gordon Banks N3JXP | "Skepticism is the chastity of the intellect, and\n>geb@cadre.dsl.pitt.edu | it is shameful to surrender it too soon." \n>----------------------------------------------------------------------------\n\nIt\'s on page 315, about 2 1/2 inches up from the bottom and an inch in\nfrom the right.\n\nAt least we know what some people *haven\'t* read and remembered.\n\n-- \nChuck Forsberg WA7KGX ...!tektronix!reed!omen!caf \nAuthor of YMODEM, ZMODEM, Professional-YAM, ZCOMM, and DSZ\n Omen Technology Inc "The High Reliability Software"\n17505-V NW Sauvie IS RD Portland OR 97231 503-621-3406\n',
'From: healta@saturn.wwc.edu (Tammy R Healy)\nSubject: Re: who are we to judge, Bobby?\nLines: 31\nOrganization: Walla Walla College\nLines: 31\n\nIn article <kmr4.1572.734847158@po.CWRU.edu> kmr4@po.CWRU.edu (Keith M. Ryan) writes:\n>From: kmr4@po.CWRU.edu (Keith M. Ryan)\n>Subject: Re: who are we to judge, Bobby?\n>Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1993 04:12:38 GMT\n>\n>(S.N. Mozumder ) writes:\n>>(TAMMY R HEALY) writes:\n>>>I would like to take the liberty to quote from a Christian writer named \n>>>Ellen G. White. I hope that what she said will help you to edit your \n>>>remarks in this group in the future.\n>>>\n>>>"Do not set yourself as a standard. Do not make your opinions, your views \n>>>of duty, your interpretations of scripture, a criterion for others and in \n>>>your heart condemn them if they do not come up to your ideal."\n>>> Thoughts Fromthe Mount of Blessing p. 124\n>>\n>>Point?\n>\n>\tPoint: you have taken it upon yourself to judge others; when only \n>God is the true judge.\n>\n>---\n>\n> Only when the Sun starts to orbit the Earth will I accept the Bible. \n> \n>\nI agree totally with you! Amen! You stated it better and in less world \nthan I did.\n\nTammy\n\n',
'From: teckjoo@iti.gov.sg (Chua Teck Joo)\nSubject: Visuallib (3D graphics for Windows)\nOrganization: Information Technology Institute, National Computer Board, Singapore.\nLines: 17\n\n\nI am currently looking for a 3D graphics library that runs on MS\nWindows 3.1. Are there any such libraries out there other than\nVisuallib? (It must run on VGA and should not require any other\nadd-on graphics cards).\n\nFor Visuallib, will it run with Metaware High C compiler v3.0? Any\nemail contact for the author of Visuallib?\n\nAny help would be much appreciated. Thanks.\n\n\n-- \n* Chua, Teck Joo\t | Information Technology Institute *\n* Email: teckjoo@iti.gov.sg | 71 Science Park Drive\t *\n* Phone: (65) 772-0237 \t | Singapore (0511)\t\t *\n* Fax: (65) 779-1827 |\t\t\t \t *\n',
'From: mhollowa@ic.sunysb.edu (Michael Holloway)\nSubject: Re: Homeopathy: a respectable medical tradition?\nKeywords: Yes, SCIENCE, stupid!\nNntp-Posting-Host: engws5.ic.sunysb.edu\nOrganization: State University of New York at Stony Brook\nLines: 75\n\nIn article <C5HLBu.I3A@tripos.com> homer@tripos.com (Webster Homer) writes:\n>mhollowa@ic.sunysb.edu (Michael Holloway) writes:\n>\n>>Here\'s your error. I really do think this shows some confusion on your\n>>part. (Drum roll please) Science isn\'t so much the gathering of evidence\n>>to support an "assertion" (read: hypothesis) as it is the gathering of\n>>empirical observations IN ORDER TO MAKE AN HYPOTHESIS. What should\n>>convince you (or not) shouldn\'t be the final product so much as *HOW* the\n>>product was made. \n>>\n>Here\'s your error. There is no observation or hypothesis that is not tainted\n>by theory. I have a theory, I make observations, those observations will be\n>made with my theory in mind. \n\nYes, absolutely, though I\'d make the observation in a more general sense of\nall observations are made by human beings and therefore made with various\nbiases. \n\nBut here your message leaves talk of hypothesis and gets back, once again, \nto equating the business of science with the end result, the gizmo produced.\n\n>Science works very well at developing theories\n>within paradigms, but is very poor at dealing with paradigm shifts. If I \n>develop a novel paradigm that explains homeopathy, chinese medicine, or \n>spontaneous combustion. If the paradigm is useful it will show me the way\n>to make observations that "prove" or "disprove" it.\n\nMy point isn\'t so much whether or not you have a novel paradigm but *how* \nyou come about developing it.\n\n>The paradigm of modern medicine is that the body can be reduced to a set of\n>essentially mechanical operations wherein disease is seen as malfunctions in\n>the machinery, essentially the old Newtonian model of the world. It seems\n>likely that theories based upon this paradigm do not give a complete \n>discription of the universe, medicine, healing etc... Indeed we now \n>recognize an important psychological component to healing. \n\nPerhaps you\'d admit that this is an oversimplification on your part (the topic\nof the philosophy of science is made for them, I\'m making them too) but I\nthink that it also summarizes popular misconceptions of science and the \nbusiness of doing science. Biomedical research doesn\'t make any basic \nassumptions that aren\'t the same as any other discipline of scientific\nresearch. That is, that you make empirical observations, form an hypothesis\nand test it. Modern medicine has much more to do with biochemistry than \n"the old Newtonian model of the world". And I doubt that many psychologists\nwould appreciate being put outside this empirical "world view". Psychology\nalso has more to do with biochemistry than spoon bending. \n\n>It is also important to distinguish reason from science. Science may be\n>reasonable, but so are many non-scientific methodologies. Aristotle reasoned\n>that frogs came from mud by observing one hop out of a puddle. \n\nOversimplified, of course, but a good example. This is an empirical observa-\ntion. It was then tested, though perhaps not by Aristotle, and eventually \nfound wanting. In the meantime, some folk will \nhave continued to believe in the spontaneous generation of animal life. \nThere\'s nothing at all surprising about this, it\'s the way the gathering of\nknowledge works. There are probably more than a few things in my own \ndiscipline of molecular biology that will be found to be totally off-base,\neven idiotic, to someone in the future. These future people won\'t have come\nto these relevations because they had suddenly gone all Zen-like and had \na vision in an LSD trip. Someone will have thought of something new and \ntested it. This is the bit that people who seem to relish misrepresenting\nscience and research can\'t seem to wrap their minds around. Science is a \ncreative process. What I think of as factual and good research can be totally\nturned on its head tommorrow by new results and theories. \n\nAgain, I think it gets down to defining what you mean by "science". I often\ndon\'t recognize what it is that I do, and am involved in, in the way science\nis portrayed by popular media or writings of people in the humanities. They\nportray science as a collection of immutable facts, pronouncements of TRUTH\nin big gold letters. That\'s silly. Its as though we just go into the lab,\nturn over a stone, and come up with a mechanism for transcriptional regula-\ntion. Its much more interesting than that. It really is a very human\nprocess.\n',
"From: halat@pooh.bears (Jim Halat)\nSubject: Re: The Inimitable Rushdie (Re: An Anecdote about Islam\nReply-To: halat@pooh.bears (Jim Halat)\nLines: 33\n\nIn article <115288@bu.edu>, jaeger@buphy.bu.edu (Gregg Jaeger) writes:\n>\n>He'd have to be precise about is rejection of God and his leaving Islam.\n>One is perfectly free to be muslim and to doubt and question the\n>existence of God, so long as one does not _reject_ God. I am sure that\n>Rushdie has be now made his atheism clear in front of a sufficient \n>number of proper witnesses. The question in regard to the legal issue\n>is his status at the time the crime was committed. \n\n\nI'd have to say that I have a problem with any organization, \nreligious or not, where the idea that _simple speech_ such\nas this is the basis for a crime.\n\n-jim halat \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n \n",
'From: uabdpo.dpo.uab.edu!gila005 (Stephen Holland)\nSubject: Re: diet for Crohn\'s (IBD)\nOrganization: Gastroenterology - Univ. of Alabama\nDistribution: usa\nLines: 48\n\nIn article <1993Apr22.202051.1@vms.ocom.okstate.edu>,\nbanschbach@vms.ocom.okstate.edu wrote:\n> \n> In article <1r6g8fINNe88@ceti.cs.unc.edu>, jge@cs.unc.edu (John Eyles) writes:\n> > \n> > A friend has what is apparently a fairly minor case of Crohn\'s\n> > disease.\n> > \n> > But she can\'t seem to eat certain foods, such as fresh vegetables,\n> > without discomfort, and of course she wants to avoid a recurrence.\n> > \n> > Her question is: are there any nutritionists who specialize in the\n> > problems of people with Crohn\'s disease ?\n> > \n> > (I saw the suggestion of lipoxygnase inhibitors like tea and turmeric).\n> > \n> > Thanks in advance,\n> > John Eyles\n> \n> All your friend really has to do is find a Registered Dietician(RD). While \n> most work in hospitals and clinics, many major cities will have RD\'s who \n> are in "private practice" so to speak. Many physicans will refer their \n> patients with Crohn\'s disease to RD\'s for dietary help. If you can get \n> your friend\'s physician to make a referral, medical insurance should pay for \n> the RD\'s services just like the services of a physical therapist. The \n> better medical insurance plans will cover this but even if your friend\'s \n> plan doesn\'t, it would be well worth the cost to get on a good diet to \n> control the intestinal discomfort and help the intestinal lining heal.\n> Crohn\'s disease is an inflammatory disease of the intestinal lining and \n> lipoxygenase inhibitors may help by decreasing leukotriene formation but \n> I\'m not aware of tea or turmeric containing lipoxygenase inhibitors. For \n> bad inflammation, steroids are used but for a mild case, the side effects \n> are not worth the small benefit gained by steroid use. Upjohn is developing \n> a new lipoxygenase inhibitor that should greatly help deal with \n> inflammatory diseases but it\'s not available yet.\n> \n> Marty B. \n\nBe sure a dietician is up to date on Crohn\'s and Ulcerative Colitis. \nPreviously, low residue diets were recommended, but this advice has\nnow changed. Also, there will be differences in advice in patients with\nand without obstructuon remaining, so input by the physician will be \nimportant. I find the dietician very important in my practice, and \nI send most of my patients to a dietician in the course of seeing\nthem, since dieticians know so much better how to get diet histories\nand evaluate the contents of a diet than I do.\n\nSteve Holland\n',
'From: geb@cs.pitt.edu (Gordon Banks)\nSubject: Re: Homeopathy: a respectable medical tradition?\nReply-To: geb@cs.pitt.edu (Gordon Banks)\nOrganization: Univ. of Pittsburgh Computer Science\nLines: 26\n\nIn article <C5qMJJ.yB@ampex.com> jag@ampex.com (Rayaz Jagani) writes:\n\n>\n>From Miranda Castro, _The Complete Homeopathy Handbook_,\n>ISBN 0-312-06320-2, oringinally published in Britain in 1990.\n>\n>From Page 10,\n>.. and in 1946, when the National Health Service was established,\n>homeopathy was included as an officially approved method\n>of treatment.\n\nI was there in 1976. I suppose it must have died out since 1946,\nthen. Certainly I never heard of any homeopaths or herbalists in\nthe employ of the NHS. Perhaps the law codified it but the authorities\nrefused to hire any homeopaths. A similar law in the US allows\nchiropractors to practice in VA hospitals but I\'ve never seen one\nthere and I don\'t know of a single VA that has hired a chiropractor.\nThere are a lot of Britons on the net, so someone should be able to\ntell us if the NHS provides homeopaths for you.\n\n\n-- \n----------------------------------------------------------------------------\nGordon Banks N3JXP | "Skepticism is the chastity of the intellect, and\ngeb@cadre.dsl.pitt.edu | it is shameful to surrender it too soon." \n----------------------------------------------------------------------------\n',
'From: JJMARVIN@pucc.princeton.edu\nSubject: prayers and advice requested on family problem\nOrganization: Princeton University\nLines: 70\n\nMy brother has been alienated from my parents and me since shortly after\nhis marriage to a domineering and insecure woman, about twelve years ago.\nWe\'ve kept things on a painfully polite, Christmas-card sort of level\nfor most of this time. Attempts to see each other end disastrously, with\nhis wife throwing a screaming fit and storming out over either our imagined\nslights to her, or his inattention or insensitivity to her (I mean, this\'ll\nhappen by the end of a single restaurant meal). He seems, from what I\'ve\nseen, to live in a state of quivering anxiety, hoping futilely to keep\nthe next storm from breaking. He has sacrificed not only meaningful contact\nwith us but also other friends and outside interests. Now, this is his\nchoice, and I need to accept it even if I deplore it. But it\'s hard.\n From time to time I\'ve wanted to drop the pretense that we have a\nrelationship--by cutting off contact--or trying to have a real if painful\nrelationship, by talking honestly with him, but I\'ve always thought, "Why\nbe dramatic? And you know he\'ll only get evasive and then find some excuse\nto get off the phone. Just leave the door open, in case he ever decides to\ncome back." It\'s been an unsatisfying choice, to allow us to go on\nwith the superficial trappings of a relationship, but it was the best I\ncould think of.\n Now, this weekend, my mother finally decided that she wasn\'t going\nto pretend any more and has cut off relations with them. This was the\noutcome of a phone conversation in which my sister-in-law screamed and\nraved at my mother, blaming her for everything wrong in their lives, and\nin which my brother evaded, temporized, claimed the situation was\nbeyond his control, and as always expected my mother to make all the\nallowances and concessions. Mom said she would not, that she would not\nquietly take abuse any more, and that if these were the terms of their\nrelationship, she didn\'t want to talk to or see them any more. And she hung\nup. (I have never seem my mother lose her temper, and I think that this is\nthe first time she\'s ever hung up on someone.) Mom says she feels as if\nshe\'s divorced my brother, and that it\'s a relief in some ways to have the\nbreak out in the open and done with.\n \n I have mixed feelings. I\'m proud of Mom for sticking up for herself;\nangry at my brother and sister-in-law for hurting her, for being jerks, for\npersisting in such a wretched life, which hurts us all and is warping their\nchildren; angry at my sister-in-law for being so hateful, and angry at my\nbrother for being a coward and having so little respect for himself or us\nthat he\'s willing to throw us aside and use up all his energy trying to\nappease an unappeasable,\nemotionally disturbed woman; pained for their children, who are a mess;\nscared for the future, since this marks the time when either things will\nchange and improve or the break will become irrevocable; nastily self-\nrighteous over this bit of proof that they can\'t "get away" with treating\nus or each other this way, and then disgusted with myself for even\nbeginning to gloat over others\' misery; and finally, mostly, sad, sad,\nsad, to see my parents hurt and my brother and sister-in-law trapped in\na horrible, destructive situation that they can\'t see a way out of--or\nthey can\'t bear to take whatever paths they do see. And I\'m frustrated\nbecause I don\'t know what if anything to do, and doing nothing drives me\nup the wall. I try to pray, about my own feelings of rage, impotence,\nand vindictiveness, and about their situation, but I am not\nfree of the desire to *DO* something concrete. (The desire to *DO*\nsomething, to define a problem and fix it, is one of my besetting\nvices; I\'m having a terrible time quieting down my internal\nmental chatter enough to listen for God.)\n Do you thoughtful and kind people on the net have advice for me? Is\nthis a time to reach out to my brother? To let things be? How can I\nconquer my rage AT him enough to be there FOR him?\n \nHere\'s the big question I\'ve been evading throughout this long, long\npost: Is it ok, as a Christian and a proponent of faith, hope, and\ncharity, to accept the destruction of a relationship? To give up on\nmy own brother, or at least to accept that I am powerless to help him\nand can only wait and see what happens? Do please answer--by e-mail or\npost.\n \nThank you.\n \nJulie (jjmarvin@pucc.princeton.edu)\n',
'From: yohan@citation.ksu.ksu.edu (Jonathan W Newton)\nSubject: Re: Societally acceptable behavior\nOrganization: Kansas State University\nLines: 35\nDistribution: world\nNNTP-Posting-Host: citation.ksu.ksu.edu\n\n\nIn article <C5qGM3.DL8@news.cso.uiuc.edu>, cobb@alexia.lis.uiuc.edu (Mike Cobb) writes:\n>Merely a question for the basis of morality\n>\n>Moral/Ethical behavior = _Societally_ _acceptable_ _behavior_.\n\nI disagree with these. What society thinks should be irrelevant. What the\nindividual decides is all that is important.\n\n>\n>1)Who is society\n\nI think this is fairly obvious\n\n>\n>2)How do "they" define what is acceptable?\n\nGenerally by what they "feel" is right, which is the most idiotic policy I can\nthink of.\n\n>\n>3)How do we keep from a "whatever is legal is what is "moral" "position?\n\nBy thinking for ourselves.\n\n>\n>MAC\n>--\n>****************************************************************\n> Michael A. Cobb\n> "...and I won\'t raise taxes on the middle University of Illinois\n> class to pay for my programs." Champaign-Urbana\n> -Bill Clinton 3rd Debate cobb@alexia.lis.uiuc.edu\n> \n>With new taxes and spending cuts we\'ll still have 310 billion dollar deficits.\n',
"From: klier@iscsvax.uni.edu\nSubject: Re: How about a crash program in basic immunological research?\nOrganization: University of Northern Iowa\nLines: 22\n\nIn article <221@ky3b.UUCP>, km@ky3b.pgh.pa.us (Ken Mitchum) writes:\n> As a physician, I almost never get sick: usually, when something horrendous\n> is going around, I either don't get it at all or get a very mild case.\n> When I do get really sick, it is always something unusual.\n> \n> This was not the situation when I was in medical school, particularly on\n> pediatrics.... Pediatrics for me was three solid\n> months of illness, and I had a temp of 104 when I took the final exam!\n> \n> I think what happens is that during training, and beyond, we are constantly\n> exposed to new things, and we have the usual reactions to them, so that later\n> on, when challenged with something, it is more likely a re-exposure for us,\n> so we deal with it well and get a mild illness. \n\nThis is also commonly seen in new teachers. The first few years, they're\nsick a lot, but gradually seem to build up immunities to almost everything\ncommon. Come to think of it, I was about my healthiest when I was\nworking in a pathogens lab, exposed to who-knows-what all the time. Pre-OSHA,\nof course.\n\nKay Klier Biology Dept UNI\n \n",
'From: cgcad@bart.inescn.pt (Comp. Graphics/CAD)\nSubject: RTrace 8.2.0\nKeywords: ray tracing\nNntp-Posting-Host: bart\nOrganization: INESC-Porto, Portugal\nLines: 83\n\nThere is a new version of the RTrace ray-tracing package (8.2.0) at\nasterix.inescn.pt [192.35.246.17] in directory pub/RTrace.\nCheck the README file.\n\nRTrace now can use the SUIT toolkit to have a nice user interface.\nCompile it with -DSUIT or modify the Makefile.\nSUIT is available at suit@uvacs.cs.virginia.edu\nI have binaries of RTrace with SUIT for SUN Sparc, SGI Indigo\nand DOS/GO32.\nPlease contact me if interested.\n\n****************************************\n\nThe MAC RTrace 1.0 port is in directory pub/RTrace/Macintosh\nThanks to Reid Judd (reid.judd@east.sun.com) and\nGreg Ferrar (gregt@function.mps.ohio-state.edu).\n\n****************************************\n\nSmall changes were done since version 8.1.0, mainly:\n\n1. Now it is possible to discard backface polygons and triangles\n for fast preview...\n\n2. The support program scn2sff has been reworked to use temp files.\n\n****************************************\n\nHere goes a short description of current converters from\nCAD/molecular/chemistry packages to the SCN format.\n\nThe package programs are related as below (those marked with * have been\nmodified)\n\n\t irit2scn\n IRIT ----------------|\n | NFF (nffclean, nffp2pp)\n\t sol2scn | |\n ACAD11 ---------------| | nff2sff\n | |\n\t mol2scn\t v scn2sff* v\trtrace*\n ALCHEMY -----------> SCN -----------> SFF ----------> PIC or PPM\n\t\t\t ^ cpp |\n\t pdb2scn | picmix\n PDB -----------------| picblend\n\t\t\t | ppmmix*\n\t chem2scn | ppmblend*\n CHEMICAL --------------|\n |\n 3ds2scn* |\n 3D STUDIO --------------|\n |\n iv2scn* |\n IRIS Inventor -----------|\n\n****************************************\n\nThe DOS port of RTrace is in pub/RTrace/PC-386 (rtrac820.arj,\nutils820.arj and image820.arj). See the README file there.\nRequires DJGPP GO32 DOS extender (version 1.09 included), which can be\nfound in directory pub/PC/djgpp (and in many sites around netland).\nThere are also demo scenes, manuals and all the source code...\n\n****************************************\n\nPlease feel free to get it and use it.\nHope you like it.\n\nRegards,\nAntonio Costa.\n.........................................................................\n O O\n / / I N E S C\n | O | Antonio Costa | E-Mail acc@asterix.inescn.pt\n | |\\ | O |\n | | \\ | / O Comp. Graphics & CAD | DECnet porto::acosta\n | | \\| / / |\n | | / | | Largo Mompilher 22 | UUCP {mcvax,...}!...\n O | |-O | | 4100 Porto PORTUGAL | Bell +351+02+321006\n / \\ / \\\n O O O "Let the good times roll..."\n\n\n',
'From: Daniel.Prince@f129.n102.z1.calcom.socal.com (Daniel Prince)\nSubject: Acutane, Fibromyalgia Syndrome and CFS\nLines: 11\n\n To: nyeda@cnsvax.uwec.edu (David Nye)\n\nThere is a person on the FIDO CFS echo who claims that he was \ncured of CFS by taking accutane. He also claims that you are \nusing it in the treatment of Fibromyalgia Syndrome. Are you \nusing accutane in the treatment of Fibromyalgia Syndrome? Have \nyou used it for CFS? Have you gotten good results with it? Are \nyou aware of any double blind studies on the use of accutane in \nthese conditions? Thank you in advance for all replies.\n\n... I think they should rename Waco TX to Wacko TX!\n',
'From: geb@cs.pitt.edu (Gordon Banks)\nSubject: Re: Cause of mental retardation?\nReply-To: geb@cs.pitt.edu (Gordon Banks)\nOrganization: Univ. of Pittsburgh Computer Science\nLines: 35\n\nIn article <1993Apr13.111834.1@cc.uvcc.edu> harrisji@cc.uvcc.edu writes:\n\n>\n>Chromosome studies have shown no abnormalities. Enzyme studies and\n>urine analyses have not turned up anything out of the ordinary. \n>MRI images of the brain show scar tissue in the white matter. \n>Subsequent MRI analysis has shown that the deterioration of the\n>white matter is progressive.\n>\n>Because neither family has a history of anything like this, and\n>because two of our four children are afflicted with the disorder,\n>we believe that it is an autosomal recessive metabolic disorder of\n>some kind. Naturally, we would like to know exactly what the\n>disease is so that we may gain some insight into how we can expect\n>the disorder to progress in the future. We would also like to be\n>able to provide our normal children with some information about\n>what they can expect in their own children.\n>\n\nIt could be one of the leukodystrophies (not adrenal, only\nboys get that). Surely you\'ve been to a university pediatric\nneurology department. If not that is the next step. Biopsies\nmight help, especially if peripheral nerves are also affected.\nThere are so many of these diseases that would fit the symptoms\nyou gave that more can\'t be said at this time.\n\nI agree with your surmise that it is an autosomal recessive.\nIf so, your normal children won\'t have to worry too much unless\nthey marry near relatives. Most recessive genes are rare\nexcept in inbred communities (e.g. Lithuanian Jews).\n-- \n----------------------------------------------------------------------------\nGordon Banks N3JXP | "Skepticism is the chastity of the intellect, and\ngeb@cadre.dsl.pitt.edu | it is shameful to surrender it too soon." \n----------------------------------------------------------------------------\n',
'From: zyeh@caspian.usc.edu (zhenghao yeh)\nSubject: Re: Need polygon splitting algo...\nOrganization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA\nLines: 25\nDistribution: world\nNNTP-Posting-Host: caspian.usc.edu\nKeywords: polygons, splitting, clipping\n\n\nIn article <1qvq4b$r4t@wampyr.cc.uow.edu.au>, g9134255@wampyr.cc.uow.edu.au (Coronado Emmanuel Abad) writes:\n|> \n|> The idea is to clip one polygon using another polygon (not\n|> necessarily rectangular) as a window. My problem then is in\n|> finding out all the new vertices of the resulting "subpolygons"\n|> from the first one. Is this simply a matter of extending the\n|> usual algorithm whereby each of the edges of one polygon is checked\n|> against another polygon??? Is there a simpler way??\n|> \n|> Comments welcome.\n|> \n|> Noel.\n\n\tIt depends on what kind of the polygons. \n\tConvex - simple, concave - trouble, concave with loop(s)\n\tinside - big trouble.\n\n\tOf cause, you can use the box test to avoid checking\n\teach edges. According to my experience, there is not\n\ta simple way to go. The headache stuff is to deal with\n\tthe special cases, for example, the overlapped lines.\n\n\tYeh\n\tUSC\n',
'From: banschbach@vms.ocom.okstate.edu\nSubject: How To Prevent Kidney Stone Formation\nLines: 154\nNntp-Posting-Host: vms.ocom.okstate.edu\nOrganization: OSU College of Osteopathic Medicine\n\nI got asked in Sci. Med. Nutrition about vitamin C and oxalate production(\ntoxic, kidney stone formation?). I decided to post my answer here as well \nbecause of the recent question about kidney stones. Not long after I got \ninto Sci. Med. I got flamed by a medical fellow for stating that magnesium \nwould prevent kidney stone formation. I\'m going to state it again here.\nBut the best way to prevent kidney stones from forming is to take B6 \nsupplements. Read on to find out why(I have my asbestos suit on now guys).\n\nVitamin C will form oxalic acid. But large doses are needed (above 6 grams \nper day).\n\n\t1. Review Article "Nutritional factors in calcium containing kidney \n\t stones with particular emphasis on Vitamin C" Int. Clin. Nutr. Rev.\n\t 5(3):110-129(1985).\n\nBut glycine also forms oxalic acid(D-amino acid oxidases). For both \nglycine and vitamin C, one of the best ways to drastically reduce this \nproduction is not to cut back on dietary intake of vitamin C or glycine, \nbut to increase your intake of vitamin B6.\n\n\t2. "Control of hyperoxaluria with large doses of pyridoxine in \n\t patients with kidney stones" Int. Urol. Nephrol. 20(4):353-59(1988)\n\t 200 to 500 mg of B6 each day significasntly decreased the urinary \n\t excretion of oxalate over the 18 month treatment program.\n\n\t3. The action of pyridoxine in primary hyperoxaluria" Clin. Sci. 38\n\t :277-86(1970). Patients receiving at least 150mg B6 each day \n\t showed a significant reduction in urinary oxalate levels.\n\nFor gylcine, this effect is due to increased transaminase activity(B6 is \nrequired for transaminase activity) which makes less glycine available for \noxidative deamination(D-amino acid oxidases). For vitamin C, the effect is \nquite different. There are different pathways for vitamin C catabolism. \nThe pathway that leads to oxalic acid formation will usually have 17 to 40% \nof the ingested dose going into oxalic acid. But this is highly variable \nand the vitamin C review article pointed out that unless the dose gets upto \n6 grams per day, not too much vitamin C gets catabolized to form oxalic \nacid. At very high doses of vitamin C(above 10 grams per day), more of the \nextra vitamin C (more than 40% conversion) can end up as oxalic acid. In a \nvery early study on vitamin C and oxalic production(Proc. Soc. Exp. Biol. \nMed. 85:190-92(1954), intakes of 2 grams per day up to 9 grams per day \nincreased the average oxalic acid excretion from 38mg per day up to 178mg \nper day. Until 8 grams per day was reached, the average excreted was \nincreased by only 3 to 12mg per day(2 gram dose, 4 gram dose, 8 gram dose \nand 9gram dose). 8 grams jumped it to 45mg over the average excretion \nbefore supplementation and 9 grams jumped it to 150 mg over the average \nbefore supplementation.\n\nB6 is required by more enzymes than any other vitamin in the body. There \nare probably some enzymes that require vitamin B6 that we don\'t know about \nyet. Vitamin C catabolism is still not completely understood but the \nspeculation is that this other pathway that does not form oxalic acid must \nhave an enzyme in it that requires B6. Differences in B6 levels could then \nexplain the very variable production of oxalic acid from a vitamin C \nchallenge(this is not the preferred route of catabolism). Increasing your \nintake of B6 would then result in less oxalic acid being formmed if you \ntake vitamin C supplements. Since the typical American diet is deficient \nin B6, some researchers believe that the main cause of calcium-oxalate \nkidney stones is B6 deficiency(especially since so little oxalic acid gets \nabsorbed from the gut). Diets providing 0 to 130mg of oxalic acid per day \nshowed absolutely no change in urinary excretion of oxalate(Urol Int.35:309\n-15,1980). If 400mg was present each day, there was a significant increase \nin urinary oxalate excretion.\n\n\tHere are the high oxalate foods:\n\n\t1. Beans, coca, instant coffee, parsley, rhubarb, spinach and tea.\n\t Contain at least 25mg/100grams\n\n\t2. Beet tops, carrots, celery, chocolate, cumber, grapefruit, kale, \n\t peanuts, pepper, sweet potatoe.\n\t Contain 10 to 25 mg/100grams.\n\nIf the threshold is 130mg per day, you can see that you really have a lot \nof latitude in food selection. A recent N.Eng.J. Med. article also points \nout that one good way to prevent kidney stone formation is to increase your \nintake of calcium which will prevent most of the dietary oxalate from being \nabsorbed at all. If you also increase your intake of B6, you shouldn\'t \nhave to worry about kidney stones at all. The RDA for B6 is 2mg per day for \nmales and 1.6mg per day for females(directly related to protein intake).\nB6 can be toxic(nerve damage) if it is consumed in doses of 500mg or more \nper day for an extended peroid(weeks to months). \n\nThe USDA food survey done in 1986 had an average intake of 1.87 mg per day \nfor males and 1.16mg per day for females living in the U.S. Coupled with \nthis low intake was a high protein diet(which greatly increases the B6 \nrequirement), as well as the presence of some of the 40 different drugs that \neither block B6 absorption, are metabolic antagonists of B6, or promote B6 \nexcretion in the urine. Common ones are: birth control pills, alcohol,\nisoniazid, penicillamine, and corticosteroids. I tell my students to \nsupplement all their patients that are going to get any of the drugs that \nincrease the B6 requirement. The dose recommended for patients taking \nbirth control pills is 10-15mg per day and this should work for most of the \nother drugs that increase the B6 requirement(this would be on top of your \ndietary intake of B6). Any patient that has a history of kidney stone \nformation should be given B6 supplements.\n\nOne other good way to prevent kidney stone formation is to make sure your \nCa/Mg dietary ratio is 2/1. Magnesium-oxalate is much more soluble than is \ncalcium-oxalate.\n\n\t4. "The magnesium:calcium ratio in the concentrated urines of \npatients with calcium oxalate calculi"Invest. Urol 10:147(1972)\n\n\t5. "Effect of magnesium citrate and magnesium oxide on the \ncrystallization of calcium in urine: changes producted by food-magnesium \ninteraction"J. Urol. 143(2):248-51(1990).\n\n\t6.Review Article, "Magnesium in the physiopathology and treatment \nof renal calcium stones" J. Presse Med. 161(1):25-27(1987).\n\nThere are actually about three times as many articles published in the \nmedical literature on the role of magnesium in preventing kidney stone \nformation than there are for B6. I thought that I was being pretty safe in \nstating that magnesium would prevent kidney stone formation in an earlier \npost in this news group but good old John A. in Mass. jumped all over me. I \nguess that he doesn\'t read the medical literature. Oh well, since kidney \nstones can be a real pain and a lot of people suffer from them, I thought \nI\'d tell you how you can avoid the pain and stay out of the doctor\'s office.\n\nMartin Banschbach, Ph.D.\nProfessor of Biochemistry and Chairman\nDepartment of Biochemistry and Microbiology\nOSU College of Osteopathic Medicine\n1111 W. 17th Street\nTulsa, Ok. 74107\n\n"Without discourse, there is no remembering, without remembering, there is \nno learning, without learning, there is only ignorance". From a wise man \nwho lived in China, many, many years ago. I think that it still has \nmeaning in today\'s world.\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n',
'From: jen187@its.CSIRO.AU (Graham Jenkins +61 6 276 6812)\nSubject: Re: islamic authority over women\nOrganization: CSIRO ITS\nLines: 41\n\n\nIn article <1993Apr5.023044.19580@ultb.isc.rit.edu>, snm6394@ultb.isc.rit.edu (S.N. Mozumder ) writes:\n\n\n|> \n|> That\'s your mistake. It would be better for the children if the mother\n|> raised the child.\n|> \n|> One thing that relates is among Navy men that get tatoos that say "Mom",\n|> because of the love of their mom. It makes for more virile men.\n|> Compare that with how homos are raised. Do a study and you will get my\n|> point.\n|> \n|> But in no way do you have a claim that it would be better if the men\n|> stayed home and raised the child. That is something false made up by\n|> feminists that seek a status above men. You do not recognize the fact\n|> that men and women have natural differences. Not just physically, but\n|> mentally also.\n|> \n\nBobby, there\'s a question here that I just HAVE to ask. If all\nof your posts aren\'t some sort of extended, elaborate hoax, why\nare you trying so hard to convince the entire civilised world\nthat you\'re feeble minded? You have a talent for saying the most\nabsurd things. Here\'s a little sign for you, print it, cut it out\nand put it on top of your computer/terminal.\n\n ENGAGE BRAIN PRIOR TO OPERATING KEYBOARD\n\n\n(Having said all that, I must admit we all get a laugh from\nyour stuff.)\n\n\n\n\n-- \n\n| Graham Jenkins | graham.jenkins@its.csiro.au | \n| CSIRO | (Commonwealth Scientific & Industrial | \n| Canberra, AUSTRALIA | Research Organisation) |\n',
'From: JEK@cu.nih.gov\nSubject: Thinking about heaven\nLines: 20\n\nJames Sledd asks:\n\n 1. What is the nature of eternal life?\n 2. How can we as mortals locked into space-time conceive of it?\n 2a. If the best we can do is metaphor/analogy, then what is the\n best metaphor?\n\nC S Lewis\'s essay THE WEIGHT OF GLORY deals with this question. I\nrecommend it enthusiastically. You might also read the chapter on\n"Heaven" in his book THE PROBLEM OF PAIN. He gives a fictional\ntreatment in his book THE GREAT DIVORCE. I have found all of these\nvery helpful.\n\nYou might also be helped by the treatment in Dante\'s DIVINE COMEDY.\nHeaven occupies the last third of the poem, but I cannot imagine\nreading it other than from the beginning. I urge you to use the\ntranslation by Dorothy L Sayers, available from Penguin Paperbacks.\n\n Yours,\n James Kiefer\n',
"From: keith@cco.caltech.edu (Keith Allan Schneider)\nSubject: Re: Political Atheists?\nOrganization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena\nLines: 11\nNNTP-Posting-Host: punisher.caltech.edu\n\narromdee@jyusenkyou.cs.jhu.edu (Ken Arromdee) writes:\n\n>>The motto originated in the Star-Spangled Banner. Tell me that this has\n>>something to do with atheists.\n>The motto _on_coins_ originated as a McCarthyite smear which equated atheism\n>with Communism and called both unamerican.\n\nNo it didn't. The motto has been on various coins since the Civil War.\nIt was just required to be on *all* currency in the 50's.\n\nkeith\n",
"From: cjhs@minster.york.ac.uk\nSubject: Re: free moral agency\nDistribution: world\nOrganization: Department of Computer Science, University of York, England\nLines: 11\n\n: Are you saying that their was a physical Adam and Eve, and that all\n: humans are direct decendents of only these two human beings.? Then who\n: were Cain and Able's wives? Couldn't be their sisters, because A&E\n: didn't have daughters. Were they non-humans?\n\nGenesis 5:4\n\nand the days of Adam after he begat Seth were eight hundred years, and\nhe begat sons and daughters:\n\nFelicitations -- Chris Ho-Stuart\n",
"From: richter@fossi.hab-weimar.de (Axel Richter)\nSubject: True Color Display in POV\nKeywords: POV, Raytracing\nNntp-Posting-Host: fossi.hab-weimar.de\nOrganization: Hochschule fuer Architektur und Bauwesen Weimar, Germany\nLines: 6\n\n\nHallo POV-Renderers !\nI've got a BocaX3 Card. Now I try to get POV displaying True Colors\nwhile rendering. I've tried most of the options and UNIVESA-Driver\nbut what happens isn't correct.\nCan anybody help me ?\n",
"From: buck@HQ.Ileaf.COM (David Buchholz x3252)\nSubject: Looking for WMF Converter\nKeywords: WMF, windowsmetafile\nNntp-Posting-Host: couloir\nReply-To: buck@HQ.Ileaf.COM (David Buchholz x3252)\nOrganization: Interleaf, Inc.\nLines: 13\n\n\nI'm looking for any leads to the source of a good Windows\nMeta File converter or interpreter. I need this for use\noutside the Windows environment. PD sources preferred, but\nnot a requirement. Please reply to the address below.\n\n\nDavid Buchholz Internet: buck@ileaf.com\nProduct Manager uucp: uunet!leafusa!buck\nInterleaf, Inc. voice: 617.290.4990 x-3252\n\n\n\n",
'From: ron.roth@rose.com (ron roth)\nSubject: Selective Placebo\nX-Gated-By: Usenet <==> RoseMail Gateway (v1.70)\nOrganization: Rose Media Inc, Toronto, Ontario.\nLines: 23\n\nL(> levin@bbn.com (Joel B Levin) writes:\nL(> John Badanes wrote:\nL(> |JB> 1) Ron...what do YOU consider to be "proper channels"...\nL(> \nL(> | I\'m glad it caught your eye. That\'s the purpose of this forum to\nL(> | educate those, eager to learn, about the facts of life. That phrase\nL(> | is used to bridle the frenzy of all the would-be respondents, who\nL(> | otherwise would feel being left out as the proper authorities to be\nL(> | consulted on that topic. In short, it means absolutely nothing.\nL(> \nL(> An apt description of the content of just about all Ron Roth\'s \nL(> posts to date. At least there\'s entertainment value (though it \nL(> is diminishing).\n\n Well, that\'s easy for *YOU* to say. All *YOU* have to do is sit \n back, soak it all in, try it out on your patients, and then brag\n to all your colleagues about that incredibly success rate you\'re\n having all of a sudden...\n\n --Ron--\n---\n RoseReader 2.00 P003228: For real sponge cake, borrow all ingredients.\n RoseMail 2.10 : Usenet: Rose Media - Hamilton (416) 575-5363\n',
'From: kilroy@gboro.rowan.edu (Dr Nancy\'s Sweetie)\nSubject: Certainty and Arrogance\nOrganization: Rowan College of New Jersey\nLines: 114\n\nDean Velasco quoted a letter from James M Stowell, president of\nMoody Bible Institute:\n\n> The other day, I was at the dry cleaner and the radio was playing.\n> It caught my attention because a talk show guest was criticizing\n> evangelical Christians, saying we believe in absolutes and think we\n> are the only ones who know what the absolutes are.\n\n> We affirm the absolutes of Scripture, not because we are arrogant\n> moralists, but because we believe in God who is truth, who has revealed\n> His truth in His Word, and therefore we hold as precious the strategic\n> importance of those absolutes."\n\nThere has been a lot of discussion, but so far nobody seems to have hit on\nexactly what the criticism of "arrogance" is aimed at.\n\nThe arrogance being attacked is that we "think we are the only ones who know\nwhat the absolutes are". In short, many evangelicals claim that they are\ninfallible on the matter of religious texts.\n\nIn particular, the problem is one of epistemology. As a shorthand, you can\nthink of epistemology as "how do you know?" That question, it turns out, is\na very troubling one.\n\nThe problem with `absolute certainty\' is that, at the bottom, at least some of\nthe thinking goes on inside your own head. Unless you can be certain that\neverything which happens in your head is infallible, the reasoning you did to\ndiscover a source of truth is in question.\n\nAnd that means you do NOT have absolute justification for your source of\nauthority -- which means you do NOT have absolute certainty.\n\n\nLet\'s take the specific example of Biblical Inerrancy, and a fictional\nInerrantist named Zeke. (The following arguments applies to the idea of\nPapal Infallibility, too.)\n\nZeke has, we presume, spent some time studying the Bible, and history, and\nseveral other topics. He has concluded, based on all these studies (and\npossibly some religious experiences) that the Bible is a source of Absolute\nTruth.\n\nHe may be correct; but even if he is, he cannot be certain that he is correct.\nHis conclusion depends on how well he studied history -- he may have made\nmistakes, and the references he used may have contained mistakes. His\nconclusion depends on how well he studied the Bible -- he may have made\nmistakes. His conclusion depends on his own reasoning -- and he may have made\nmistakes. (Noticing a common thread yet? 8-)\n\nEverything about his study of the world that he did -- everything that\nhappened in his own head -- is limited by his own thinking. No matter what\nhe does to try and cover his mistakes, he can never be certain of his own\ninfallibility. As long as ANY PART of the belief is based on his own\nreasoning, that belief cannot be considered "absolutely certain".\n\nZeke believes that he has found a source of absolute truth -- but that belief\nis only as good as the quality of the search he made for it. Unless he can\nsay that his own reasoning is flawless, his conclusions are in doubt.\n\nAny belief that you hold about absolute sources of truth depends in part on\nyour own thinking -- there is no way out of the loop. Only an infallible\nthinker can have absolute certainty in all his beliefs.\n\n\nThis is easy to demonstrate. Let\'s go back to our shorthand method of doing\nepistemology: "how do you know?" Imagine a hypothetical discussion:\n\n A: The Bible is a source of absolute truth.\n\n B: How do you know?\n\n A: I studied history and the Bible and religious writings and church\n teachings and came to this conclusion.\n\n B: How do you know you studied history correctly?\n\n A: Well, I double-checked everything.\n\n B: How do you know you double-checked correctly?\n\n A: Well, I compared my answers with some smart people and we agreed.\n\n B: Just because some smart guy believes something that doesn\'t mean it is\n true. How do you know THEY studied it correctly?\n\n A: ...\n\nAnd, as you see, B will eventually get A to the point where he has to say "I\ncan\'t prove that there are no mistakes" -- and as long as you may have made a\nmistake, then you cannot be ABSOLUTELY certain.\n\nThere is no way out of the loop.\n\n\nThis is where the "arrogance of Christians" arises: many people believe\nthat their own personal research can give them absolute certainty about the\ndoctrines of Christianity -- they are implicitly claiming that they are\ninfallible, and that there is no possibility of mistake.\n\nClaiming that you CANNOT have made a mistake, and that your thinking has led\nyou to a flawless conclusion, is pretty arrogant.\n\n *\n\nPeople who want to see this argument explained in great detail should try to\nfind _The Infallibility of the Church_, by George Salmon. He is attacking\nthe idea that the Pope can be knowably infallible (and he does so very well),\nbut the general argument applies equally well to the idea that the Bible is\nknowably Inerrant.\n\n\nDarren F Provine / kilroy@gboro.rowan.edu\n"At the core of all well-founded belief, lies belief that is unfounded."\n -- Ludwig Wittgenstein\n',
"From: molnar@Bisco.CAnet.CA (Tom Molnar)\nSubject: sudden numbness in arm\nOrganization: UTCC\nLines: 30\n\nI experienced a sudden numbness in my left arm this morning. Just after\nI completed my 4th set of deep squats. Today was my weight training\nday and I was just beginning my routine. All of a sudden at the end of\nthe 4th set my arm felt like it had gone to sleep. It was cold, turned pale,\nand lost 60% of its strength. The weight I used for squats wasn't that\nheavy, I was working hard but not at 100% effort. I waited for a few \nminutes, trying to shake the arm back to life and then continued with\nchest exercises (flyes) with lighter dumbells than I normally use. But\nI dropped the left dumbell during the first set, and experienced continued\narm weakness into the second. So I quit training and decided not to do my\nusual hour on the ski machine either. I'll take it easy for the rest of\nthe day.\n\nMy arm is *still* somewhat numb and significantly weaker than normal --\nmy hand still tingles a bit down to the thumb. Color has returned to normal\nand it is no longer cold. \n\nHorrid thoughts of chunks of plaque blocking a major artery course through\nmy brain. I'm 34, vegetarian, and pretty fit from my daily exercise\nregimen. So that can't be it. Could a pinched nerve from the bar\ncause these symptoms (I hope)?\n\nHas this happened to anyone else?\nNothing like this has ever happened to me before. Does it come with age?\n\nThanks,\nTom\n-- \nTom Molnar\nUnix Systems Group, University of Toronto Computing & Communications.\n",
'From: rind@enterprise.bih.harvard.edu (David Rind)\nSubject: Re: Candida Albicans: what is it?\nOrganization: Beth Israel Hospital, Harvard Medical School, Boston Mass., USA\nLines: 19\nNNTP-Posting-Host: enterprise.bih.harvard.edu\n\nIn article <1993Apr19.084258.1040@ida.liu.se> davpa@ida.liu.se\n (David Partain) writes:\n>Someone I know has recently been diagnosed as having Candida Albicans, \n>a disease about which I can find no information. Apparently it has something\n>to do with the body\'s production of yeast while at the same time being highly\n>allergic to yeast. Can anyone out there tell me any more about it?\n\nCandida albicans can cause severe life-threatening infections, usually\nin people who are otherwise quite ill. This is not, however, the sort\nof illness that you are probably discussing.\n\n"Systemic yeast syndrome" where the body is allergic to\nyeast is considered a quack diagnosis by mainstream medicine. There\nis a book "The Yeast Connection" which talks about this "illness".\n\nThere is no convincing evidence that such a disease exists.\n-- \nDavid Rind\nrind@enterprise.bih.harvard.edu\n',
'Subject: Re: Contradictions\nFrom: kmr4@po.CWRU.edu (Keith M. Ryan)\nOrganization: Case Western Reserve University\nNNTP-Posting-Host: b64635.student.cwru.edu\nLines: 49\n\nIn article <C52oys.2CLJ@austin.ibm.com> yoder@austin.ibm.com (Stuart R. Yoder) writes:\n>: \n>: Then what would it have to do with "in the universe"? You theists\n>: cannot understand that inside the universe and outside the universe\n>: are two different places. Put God outside the universe and you\n>: subtract from it the ability to interact with the inside of the\n>: universe, put it inside the universe and you impose the rules of\n>: physics on it.\n>\n>1. God is outside the universe.\n>2. Things outside the universe do not have \'the ability to interact\n> with the inside of the universe\'.\n>3. Therefore God cannot interact inside the universe.\n>\n>(2) has no basis whatsoever. You seem to have positive knowledge\n>about this.\n\n\t(2) is a corrallary of (1).\n\n\tThe negation of (2) would contridict (1).\n\n>\n>: Although we do not have a complete model of the physical rules\n>: governing the inside of the universe, we expect that there are no\n>: contradictory events likely to destroy the fabric of modern physics.\n>: On the other hand, your notion of an omnipotent, omniscient and\n>: infinitely benevolent god, is not subject to physical laws: you\n>: attempt to explain this away by describing it as being outside of\n>: them, beyond measurement. To me, beyond measurement means it can\n>: have no measurable effect on reality, so it cannot interact: ergo,\n>: your god is IRRELEVANT.\n>\n>1. God is beyond measure.\n>2. Beyond measurement means it can have no measurable effect on\n> reality.\n>3. Therefore God cannot have a measurable effect on reality.\n>\n>(2) has no basis whatsoever.\n\n (2) Is a corrallary of (1)\n\n The negation of (2) would contradict (1).\n--\n\n\n "Satan and the Angels do not have freewill. \n They do what god tells them to do. "\n\n S.N. Mozumder (snm6394@ultb.isc.rit.edu) \n',
"From: jcj@tellabs.com (jcj)\nSubject: Re: Losing your temper is not a Christian trait\nOrganization: Huh? Whuzzat?\nLines: 12\n\nSheila Patterson writes:\n> \n>I always suspected that I was human too :-) It is the desire to be like\n>Christ that often causes christians to be very critical of themselves and\n>other christians. ...\n\nI'd like to remind people of the withering of the fig tree and Jesus\ndriving the money changers et. al. out of the temple. I think those\nwere two instances of Christ showing anger (as part of His human side).\n\nJeff Johnson\njcj@tellabs.com\n",
'From: d91-fad@tekn.hj.se (DANIEL FALK)\nSubject: RE: VESA on the Speedstar 24\nOrganization: H|gskolan i J|nk|ping\nLines: 39\nNntp-Posting-Host: pc5_b109.et.hj.se\n\n>>>kjb/MGL/uvesa32.zip\n>>>\n>>>This is a universal VESA driver. It supports most video\n>>>boards/chipsets (include the Speedstar-24 and -24X) up to\n>>>24 bit color.\n>>>\n>>>Terry\n>>>\n>>>P.S. I\'ve tried it on a Speedstar-24 and -24X and it works. :)\n\n>>Not with all software. :( For instance it doesn\'t work at all with\n>>Animator Pro from Autodesk. It can\'t detect ANY SVGA modes when \n>>running UniVESA. This is really a problem as we need a VESA driver\n>>for both AA Pro and some hi-color stuff. :(\n\n>Just out of curiosity... Are you using the latest version (3.2)? Versions\n>previous to this did not fill in all of the capabilities bits and other\n>information correctly. I had problems with a lot of software until I got\n>this version. (I don\'t think the author got around to posting an \n>announcementof it (or at least I missed it), but 3.2 was available in the \n>directory indicated as of 3/29.)\n\nI sure did use version 3.2. It works fine with most software but NOT\nwith Animator Pro and that one is quite important to me. Pretty\nuseless program without that thing working IMHO.\nSo I hope the author can fix that.\n\n/Daniel...\n\n\n\n\n=============================================================================\n!! Daniel Falk \\\\ " Don\'t quote me! No comments! " !! \n!! ^^^^^^ ^^^^ \\\\ Ebenezum the Great Wizard !! \n!! d91-fad@tekn.hj.se \\\\ !!\n!! d91fad@hjds90.hj.se // Also known as the mega-famous musician !!\n!! Jkpg, Sweeeeeden... \\\\ Leinad of The Yellow Ones !!\n=============================================================================\n',
"From: jk87377@lehtori.cc.tut.fi (Kouhia Juhana)\nSubject: XV problems\nOrganization: Tampere University of Technology\nLines: 113\nDistribution: world\nNNTP-Posting-Host: cc.tut.fi\n\n[Please, note the Newsgroups.]\n\nRecent discussion about XV's problems were held in some newsgroup.\nHere is some text users of XV might find interesting.\nI have added more to text to this collection article, so read on, even\nyou so my articles a while ago.\n\nI hope author of XV corrects those problems as best he can, so fine\nprogram XV is that it is worth of improving.\n(I have also minor ideas for 24bit XV, e-mail me for them.)\n\nAny misundertanding of mine is understandable.\n\n\nJuhana Kouhia\n\n\n==clip==\n\n[ ..deleted..]\n\nNote that 'xv' saves only 8bit/rasterized images; that means that\nthe saved jpegs are just like jpeg-to-gif-to-jpeg quality.\nAlso, there's three kind of 8bit quantizers; your final image quality\ndepends on them too.\n \nThis were the situation when I read jpeg FAQ a while ago.\n \nIMHO, it is design error of 'xv'; there should not be such confusing\nerrors in programs.\nThere's two errors:\n -xv allows the saving of 8bit/rasterized image as jpeg even the\n original is 24bit -- saving 8bit/rasterized image instead of\n original 24bit should be a special case\n -xv allows saving the 8bit/rasterized image made with any quantizer\n -- the main case should be that 'xv' quantizes the image with the\n best quantizer available before saving the image to a file; lousier\n quantizers should be just for viewing purposes (and a special cases\n in saving the image, if at all)\n \n==clip==\n\n==clip==\n\n[ ..deleted..]\n\nIt is limit of *XV*, but not limit of design.\nIt is error in design.\nIt is error that 8bit/quantized/rasterized images are stored as jpegs;\njpeg is not designed to that.\n\nAs matter of fact, I'm sure when XV were designed 24bit displays were\nknown. It is not bad error to program a program for 8bit images only\nat that time, but when 24bit image formats are included to program the\nwhole design should be changed to support 24bit images.\nThat were not done and now we have\n -the program violate jpeg design (and any 24bit image format)\n -the program has human interface errors.\n\nOtherway is to drop saving images as jpegs or any 24bit format without\nclearly saying that it is special case and not expected in normal use.\n\n[ ..deleted.. ]\n\n==clip==\n\nSome new items follows.\n\n==clip==\n\nI have seen that XV quantizes the image sometimes poorly with -best24\noption than with default option we have.\nThe reason surely is the quantizer used as -best24; it is (surprise)\nthe same than used in ppmquant.\n\nIf you remember, I have tested some quantizers. In that test I found\nthat rlequant (with default) is best, then comes djpeg, fbmquant, xv\n(our default) in that order. In my test ppmquant suggeeded very poorly\n-- it actually gave image with bad artifacts.\n\nI don't know is ppmquant improved any, but I expect no.\nSo, use of XV's -best24 option is not very good idea.\n\nI suggest that author of XV changes the quantizer to the one used in\nrlequant -- I'm sure rle-people gives permission.\n(Another could be one used in ImageMagick; I have not tested it, so I\ncan say nothing about it.)\n\n==clip==\n\n==clip==\n\nSome minor bugs in human interface are:\n\nKey pressings and cursor clicks goes to a buffer; Often it happens\nthat I make click errors or press keyboard when cursor is in the wrong\nplace. It is very annoying when you have waited image to come about\nfive minutes and then it is gone away immediately.\nThe buffer should be cleaned when the image is complete.\n\nAlso, good idea is to wait few seconds before activating keyboard\nand mouse for XV after the image is completed.\nOften it happens that image pops to the screen quickly, just when\nI'm writing something with editor or such. Those key pressings\nthen go to XV and image has gone or something weird.\n\nIn the color editor, when I turn a color meter and release it, XV\nupdates the images. It is impossible to change all RGB values first\nand then get the updated image. It is annoying wait image to be\nupdated when the setting are not ready yet.\nI suggest of adding an 'apply' button to update the exchanges done.\n\n==clip==\n",
'From: geb@cs.pitt.edu (Gordon Banks)\nSubject: Re: Migraines and Estrogen\nReply-To: geb@cs.pitt.edu (Gordon Banks)\nOrganization: Univ. of Pittsburgh Computer Science\nLines: 12\n\nIn article <3FB51B6w165w@jupiter.spk.wa.us> pwageman@jupiter.spk.wa.us (Peggy Wageman) writes:\n>I read that hormonal fluctuations can contribute to migraines, could \n>taking supplemental estrogen (ERT) cause migraines? Any information \n\nI\'m not sure it is the fluctuation so much as the estrogen level.\nTaking Premarin can certainly cause migraines in some women.\n\n-- \n----------------------------------------------------------------------------\nGordon Banks N3JXP | "Skepticism is the chastity of the intellect, and\ngeb@cadre.dsl.pitt.edu | it is shameful to surrender it too soon." \n----------------------------------------------------------------------------\n',
'From: kfl@access.digex.com (Keith F. Lynch)\nSubject: Re: My New Diet --> IT WORKS GREAT !!!!\nOrganization: Express Access Public Access UNIX, Greenbelt, Maryland USA\nLines: 58\nNNTP-Posting-Host: access.digex.net\n\nIn article <19600@pitt.UUCP> geb@cs.pitt.edu (Gordon Banks) writes:\n> Keith is the only person I have ever heard of that keeps the weight\n> off without any conscious effort to control eating behavior. ... most\n> of us have to diet a lot to keep from going back to morbid obesity.\n\nI attribute my success to several factors:\n\nVery low fat. Except when someone else has cooked a meal for me,\nI only eat fruit, vegetables, and whole grain or bran cereals. I\nestimate I only get about 5 to 10 percent of my calories from fat.\n\nVery little sugar or salt.\n\nVery high fiber. Most Americans get about 10 grams. 25 to 35 are\nrecommended. I get between 50 and 150. Sometimes 200. (I\'ve heard\nof people taking fiber pills. It seems unlikely that pills can\ncontain enough fiber to make a difference. It would be about as\nlikely as someone getting fat by popping fat pills. Tablets are\njust too small, unless you snarf down hundreds of them daily.)\n\nMy "clean your plate" conditioning works *for* me. Eating the last\n10% takes half my eating time, and gives satiety a chance to catch\nup, so I don\'t still feel hungry and go start eating something else.\n\nI don\'t eat when I\'m not hungry (unless I\'m sure I\'ll get hungry\nshortly, and eating won\'t be practical then).\n\nI bike to work, 22 miles a day, year round. Fast. I also bike to\nstores, movies, and everywhere else, as I\'ve never owned a car.\nI estimate this burns about 1000 calories a day. It also helps\nbuild and maintain muscle mass, prevent insulin resistance (diabetes\nruns in my family), and increase my metabolism. (Even so, my\nmetabolism is so low that when I\'m at rest I\'m most comfortable\nwith a temperature in the 90s (F), and usually wear a sweater if\nit drops to 80.) Cycling also motivates me to avoid every excess\nounce. (Cyclists routinely pay a premium for cycling products that\nweigh slightly less than others. But it\'s easier and cheaper to trim\nweight from the rider than from the vehicle.)\n\nThere\'s no question in my mind that my metabolism is radically\ndifferent from that of most people who have never been fat. Fortunately,\nit isn\'t different in a way that precludes excellent health.\n\nObviously, I can\'t swear that every obese person who does what I\'ve\ndone will have the success I did. But I\'ve never yet heard of one who\ndid try it and didn\'t succeed.\n\n> I think all of us cycle. One\'s success depends on how large the\n> fluctuations in the cycle are. Some people can cycle only 5 pounds.\n\nI\'m sure everyone\'s weight cycles, whether or not they\'ve ever been fat.\nI usually eat extremely little salt. When I do eat something salty,\nmy weight can increase overnight by as much as ten pounds. It comes\noff again over a week or two.\n-- \nKeith Lynch, kfl@access.digex.com\n\nf p=2,3:2 s q=1 x "f f=3:2 q:f*f>p!\'q s q=p#f" w:q p,?$x\\8+1*8\n',
'From: KINDER@nervm.nerdc.ufl.edu (JIM COBB)\nSubject: ET 4000 /W32 VL-Bus Cards\nOrganization: University of Florida, NERDC\nLines: 3\nNNTP-Posting-Host: nervm.nerdc.ufl.edu\nX-Newsreader: NNR/VM S_1.3.2\n\nDoes anyone know of a VL-Bus video card based on the ET4000 /W32 card?\nIf so: how much will it cost, where can I get one, does it come with more\nthan 1MB of ram, and what is the windows performance like?\n',
'From: littlejs@nextwork.rose-hulman.edu (Jeffrey S Little)\nSubject: Re: Revelations - BABYLON?\nReply-To: littlejs@nextwork.rose-hulman.edu (Jeffrey S Little)\nOrganization: Computer Science Department at Rose-Hulman\nLines: 38\n\nIn article <Apr.21.03.25.41.1993.1322@geneva.rutgers.edu> \nJBUDDENBERG@vax.cns.muskingum.edu (Jimmy Buddenberg) writes:\n> \n> Hello all. We are doing a bible study (at my college) on Revelations. We\n> have been doing pretty good as far as getting some sort of reasonable\n> interpretation. We are now on chapters 17 and 18 which talk about the\n> woman on the beast and the fall of Babylon. I believe the beast is the\n> Antichrist (some may differ but it seems obvious) and the woman represents\n> Babylon which stands for Rome or the Roman Catholic Church. What are some\n> views on this interpretation? Is the falling Babylon in chapter 18 the same\n> Babylon in as in chapter 17? The Catholic church?\n> Hate to step on toes.\n> thanks\n\nAn interesting interpretation of Revelation 17 and 18 has been given by \nevangelist David Wilkerson. I am not saying that I totally agree with his \ninterpretation, but it is certainly believable and good food for thought. He \ninterprets the Babylon of Revelation 17-18 as being none other than the good \nold U. S. of A. That\'s right, America. He supports his claim in several ways. \nThe Babylon of Revelation is THE world leader in trade and commerce, and the \nWHOLE WORLD wept when Babylon fell. The American dollar, despite the Japanese \nsuccess of the 20th century, is STILL the most sought after currency in the \nworld. If the U.S. were destroyed, wouldn\'t the whole world mourn? The bible \nalso talks about Babylon being a home of harlots, sin, and adultery (I am \nparaphrasing, of course). Babylon\'s sin affected, or should I say, infected, \nthe whole world. It doesn\'t take much looking to see that the U.S. is in a \nstate of moral decay. Hasn\'t the American culture and Hollywood spread the "do \nit if it feels good" mentality all over the world. I think, though, that what \nMr. Wilkerson uses as his strongest argument is the fact that Revelation calls \nBabylon "Babylon the Great" and portrays it as the most powerful nation on \nearth. No matter how dissatisfied you are with the state of our country, I \ndon\'t think you would have too much trouble agreeing that the U.S. is STILL the \nmost powerful nation on earth.\n\nAgain, this interpretation is not NECESSARILY my own, but I do find it worthy \nof consideration.\n\nJeffrey Little\n',
"From: k053730@hobbes.kzoo.edu (Philip G. Sells)\nSubject: Hebrew grammar texts--choose English or German?\nOrganization: Kalamazoo College Alumni Association\nLines: 28\n\nGreetings,\n\nProbably a tired old horse, but... maybe with a slightly different\ntwist. I wanted to know if there are any good English-language texts\nfor learning ancient Hebrew, and how these compare with German\neducational texts qualitywise, if anybody has an idea. I can't figure\nout if I should buy one here for later study or wait until I get back to\nthe U.S.\n\nSomething I find interesting about studying theology in Germany is the\nfact that the students get their ancient language-learning out of the\nway early [I'm not a theology student, but I spend a lot of time with\nsuch folks] in their careers. They take the first two years or so to just\ndo Greek and Latin and Hebrew [possibly Aramaic, too--who knows].\nWhat's it like at divinity schools or seminaries in the States? Is\nthere a lot of language instruction done? I really don't have a basis\nfor comparison.\n\nRegards, Phil\n-- \nPhilip Sells Is anything too hard for the LORD?\nk053730@hobbes.kzoo.edu --Gen. 18:14\n\n[For better of worse, we don't have the tradition of classical\neducation in the U.S., so generally if a seminary believes students\nshould know Greek, they have to teach it. It's common for seminaries\nto require at least a semester each of Hebrew and Greek, though of\ncourse more is required for serious scholarship. --clh]\n",
'From: reedr@cgsvax.claremont.edu\nSubject: Re: DID HE REALLY RISE???\nOrganization: The Claremont Graduate School\nLines: 15\n\nIn article <Apr.13.00.08.56.1993.28439@athos.rutgers.edu>, eggertj@moses.atc.ll.mit.edu (Jim Eggert x6127 g41) writes:\n\n> I disagree with your claim that Jews were not evangelistic (except in\n> the narrow sense of the word). Jewish proselytism was widespread.\n> There are numerous accounts of Jewish proselytism, both in the New\n> Testament and in Roman and Greek documents of the day.\n\nJim,\n\nPlease feel free to correct me and give me some texts. As far as I can see the\nonly text which vaugely relates to jewish evangelism is found in Mt. 23:15.\nHowever since this is found only in Mt. it cannot be dated before 90CE which\nmakes it unusefull for understanding Second Temple Judaism. \n\nrandy\n',
'From: lunger@helix.enet.dec.com (Dave Lunger)\nSubject: Modified sense of taste in Cancer pt?\nKeywords: cancer\nOrganization: Digital Equipment Corporation\nLines: 13\n\n\nWhat does a lack of taste of foods, or a sense of taste that seems "off"\nwhen eating foods in someone who has cancer mean? What are the possible\ncauses of this? Why does it happen?\n\nPt has Stage II breast cancer, and is taking tamoxifin. Also has Stage IV\nlung cancer with known CNA metastasis, and is taking klonopin (also had\ncranial radiation treatments).\n\nThanks!\n\n[not a doctor, but trying to understand family member\'s illness]\n\n',
'From: geb@cs.pitt.edu (Gordon Banks)\nSubject: Re: HELP for Kidney Stones ..............\nReply-To: geb@cs.pitt.edu (Gordon Banks)\nOrganization: Univ. of Pittsburgh Computer Science\nLines: 17\n\nIn article <1993Apr21.143910.5826@wvnvms.wvnet.edu> pk115050@wvnvms.wvnet.edu writes:\n>My girlfriend is in pain from kidney stones. She says that because she has no\n>medical insurance, she cannot get them removed.\n>\n>My question: Is there any way she can treat them herself, or at least mitigate\n>their effects? Any help is deeply appreciated. (Advice, referral to literature,\n\nMorphine or demerol is about the only effective way of stopping pain\nthat severe. Obviously, she\'ll need a prescription to get such drugs.\nCan\'t she go to the county hospital or something?\n\n\n-- \n----------------------------------------------------------------------------\nGordon Banks N3JXP | "Skepticism is the chastity of the intellect, and\ngeb@cadre.dsl.pitt.edu | it is shameful to surrender it too soon." \n----------------------------------------------------------------------------\n',
'From: akins@cbnewsd.cb.att.com (kay.a.akins)\nSubject: Re: food-related seizures?\nOrganization: AT&T\nSummary: seizures and foods\nLines: 35\n\nIn article <PAULSON.93Apr15082558@cmb00.larc.nasa.gov>, paulson@tab00.larc.nasa.gov (Sharon Paulson) writes:\n> I am posting to this group in hopes of finding someone out there in\n> network newsland who has heard of something similar to what I am going\n> to describe here. I have a fourteen year old daugter who experienced\n> a seizure on November 3, 1992 at 6:45AM after eating Kellog\'s Frosted\n> Flakes. She is perfectly healthy, had never experienced anything like\n> this before, and there is no history of seizures in either side of the\n> family. All the tests (EEG, MRI, EKG) came out negative so the decision\n> was made to do nothing and just wait to see if it happened again.\n> \n> Well, we were going along fine and the other morning, April 5, she had\n> a bowl of another Kellog\'s frosted kind of cereal, Fruit Loops (I am\n> embarrassed to admit that I even bought that junk but every once\n> in a while...) So I pour it in her bowl and think "Oh, oh, this is the\n> same kind of junk she was eating when she had that seizure." Ten \n> minutes later she had a full blown seizures. This was her first exposure\n> to a sugar coated cereal since the last seizure.......\n\nMy daughter has Epilepsy and I attend a monthly parent support group.\nJust Wednesday night, a mother was telling how she decided to throw\nall the junk food out and see if it made a difference in her 13 year-old\'s\nseizures. He was having about one seizure per week. She reported that\nshe did this on Thursday (3/11), he had a seizure on Saturday and then\nwent 4 weeks without a seizure!! On Easter he went to Grandma\'s and ate \ncandy, pop - anything he wanted. He had a seizure the next day. She \nsees sensitivity to nutrasweet, sugar, colors, caffine and corn. With\ncorn she says, he gets very nervous and aggresive. \n\nWith my own daughter (age 7) , I think she is also sensitive and stays\naway from those foods on her own. She has never had gum, won\'t eat\ncandy, prefers an apple to a cookie, doesn\'t like chocolate and won\'t\neven use toothpaste!!! Her brother, on the other hand, is a junk food\naddict! \n\nHope this helps. Good Luck.\n',
'From: mcovingt@aisun3.ai.uga.edu (Michael Covington)\nSubject: Clarification: Easter\nOrganization: AI Programs, University of Georgia, Athens\nLines: 23\n\nIn response to a lot of email I\'ve gotten, I need to clarify my position.\n\nI am not in favor of paganism.\n\nI am not in favor of the Easter Bunny or other non-Christian aspects of\nEaster as presently celebrated. (Incidentally, Easter eggs are not\nnon-Christian; they are a way of ending the Lenten fast.)\n\nMy point was to distinguish between\n (1) intentionally worshipping a pagan deity, and\n (2) doing something which may once have had pagan associations, but\nnowadays is not understood or intended as such.\n\nMany people who are doing (2) are being accused of (1).\n\nIt would be illogical to claim that one is "really" worshipping a\npagan deity without knowing it. Worship is a matter of intention.\nOne cannot worship without knowing that one is doing so.\n-- \n:- Michael A. Covington, Associate Research Scientist : *****\n:- Artificial Intelligence Programs mcovingt@ai.uga.edu : *********\n:- The University of Georgia phone 706 542-0358 : * * *\n:- Athens, Georgia 30602-7415 U.S.A. amateur radio N4TMI : ** *** ** <><\n',
'From: ron.roth@rose.com (ron roth)\nSubject: Selective Placebo\nX-Gated-By: Usenet <==> RoseMail Gateway (v1.70)\nOrganization: Rose Media Inc, Toronto, Ontario.\nLines: 33\n\nK(> king@reasoning.com (Dick King) writes:\nK(>\nK(> RR> ron.roth@rose.com (ron roth) wrote:\nK(> RR> OTOH, who are we kidding, the New England Medical Journal in 1984\nK(> RR> ran the heading: "Ninety Percent of Diseases are not Treatable by\nK(> RR> Drugs or Surgery," which has been echoed by several other reports.\nK(> RR> No wonder MDs are not amused with alternative medicine, since\nK(> RR> the 20% magic of the "placebo effect" would award alternative \nK(> RR> practitioners twice the success rate of conventional medicine...\nK(> \nK(> 1: "90% of diseases" is not the same thing as "90% of patients".\nK(> \nK(> In a world with one curable disease that strikes 100 people, and nine\nK(> incurable diseases which strikes one person each, medical science will cure\nK(> 91% of the patients and report that 90% of diseases have no therapy.\nK(> \nK(> 2: A disease would be counted among the 90% untreatable if nothing better than\nK(> a placebo were known. Of course MDs are ethically bound to not knowingly\nK(> dispense placebos...\nK(> \nK(> -dk\n \n Hmmm... even *without* the ;-) at the end, I didn\'t think anyone\n was going to take the mathematics or statistics of my post seriously.\n \n I only hope that you had the same thing in mind with your post, \n otherwise you would need at least TWO ;-)\'s at the end to help \n anyone understand your calculations above...\n\n --Ron--\n---\n RoseReader 2.00 P003228: This mind intentionally left blank.\n RoseMail 2.10 : Usenet: Rose Media - Hamilton (416) 575-5363\n',
'From: edm@twisto.compaq.com (Ed McCreary)\nSubject: Re: some thoughts.\nIn-Reply-To: healta@saturn.wwc.edu\'s message of Fri, 16 Apr 1993 02: 51:29 GMT\nOrganization: Compaq Computer Corp\n\t<healta.145.734928689@saturn.wwc.edu>\nLines: 47\n\n>>>>> On Fri, 16 Apr 1993 02:51:29 GMT, healta@saturn.wwc.edu (Tammy R Healy) said:\nTRH> I hope you\'re not going to flame him. Please give him the same coutesy you\'\nTRH> ve given me.\n\nBut you have been courteous and therefore received courtesy in return. This\nperson instead has posted one of the worst arguments I have ever seen\nmade from the pro-Christian people. I\'ve known several Jesuits who would\nlaugh in his face if he presented such an argument to them.\n\nLet\'s ignore the fact that it\'s not a true trilemma for the moment (nice\nword Maddi, original or is it a real word?) and concentrate on the\nliar, lunatic part.\n\nThe argument claims that no one would follow a liar, let alone thousands\nof people. Look at L. Ron Hubbard. Now, he was probably not all there,\nbut I think he was mostly a liar and a con-artist. But look at how many\nthousands of people follow Dianetics and Scientology. I think the \nBaker\'s and Swaggert along with several other televangelists lie all\nthe time, but look at the number of follower they have.\n\nAs for lunatics, the best example is Hitler. He was obviously insane,\nhis advisors certainly thought so. Yet he had a whole country entralled\nand came close to ruling all of Europe. How many Germans gave their lives\nfor him? To this day he has his followers.\n\nI\'m just amazed that people still try to use this argument. It\'s just\nso obviously *wrong*.\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n--\nEd McCreary ,__o\nedm@twisto.compaq.com _-\\_<, \n"If it were not for laughter, there would be no Tao." (*)/\'(*)\n',
'From: jose@csd.uwo.ca (Jose Thekkumthala)\nSubject: recurrent volvulus\nOrganization: Department of Computer Science, UWO, Canada\nKeywords: volvulus\nNntp-Posting-Host: berfert.csd.uwo.ca\nLines: 35\n\n Recurrent Volvulus\n -------------------\n \n This is regarding recurrent volvulus which our little boy\n has been suffering from ever since he was an infant. He had\n a surgery when he was one year old. Another surgery had\n to be performed one year after, when he was two years old.\n He turned three this February and he is still getting\n afflicted by this illness, like having to get hospitalised\n for vomitting and accompanying stomach pain.He managed\n not having a third surgery so far.\n \n * \tOne thing me and my wife noticed is that his affliction\n \tpeaks around the time he was born, on nearabouts, like in\n \tMarch every year. Any significance to this?\n \n *\tWhy does this recur? Me and my family go through severe pain\n \twhen our little boy have to undergo surgery. Why does surgery\n \tnot rectify the situation? \n \n *\tAlso, which hospital in US or Canada specialize in this malady?\n \n *\tWhat will be a good book explaining this disease in detail?\n \n *\tWill keeping a particular diet keep down the probability of \n \trecurrence?\n \n *\tAs time goes on, will the probability of recurrence go down\n \tconsidering he is getting stronger and healthier and probably\n \tless prone to attacks? Or is this assumption wrong?\n \n *\tAny help throwing light on these queries will be highly appreciated.\n \tThanks very much!\n \n jose@csd.uwo.ca\n',
'From: lewism@aix.rpi.edu (Michael C. Lewis)\nSubject: Re: Delaunay Triangulation\nNntp-Posting-Host: aix.rpi.edu\nOrganization: Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Troy, NY\nLines: 16\n\nIn article <lsk1v9INN93c@caspian.usc.edu> zyeh@caspian.usc.edu (zhenghao yeh) writes:\n>\n>Does anybody know what Delaunay Triangulation is?\n>Is there any reference to it? \n>Is it useful for creating 3-D objects? If yes, what\'s the advantage?\n\nIt is used to create a TIN (triangulated irregular network), which is\nbasically a bunch of triangles which form a surface over a group of\npoints. What is special about it is that the triangles formed are the \nmost equalateral possible. Check out "Proceedings of AutoCarto N" where\nN is 8..10. Sorry, I don\'t have a specific reference describing the\nprocess.\n-Michael\n\n\n\n',
'From: mdw33310@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Michael D. Walker)\nSubject: Re: Deuterocanonicals, esp. Sirach\nOrganization: University of Illinois at Urbana\nLines: 26\n\nwagner@grace.math.uh.edu (David Wagner) writes:\n\n>The deutero-canonical books were added much later in the church\'s\n>history. They do not have the same spiritual quality as the\n>rest of Scripture. I do not believe the church that added these\n>books was guided by the Spirit in so doing. And that is where\n>this sort of discussion ultimately ends.\n\n>David H. Wagner\n>a confessional Lutheran\t\t"Now thank we all our God\n\n\n\tWhoah whoah whoah WHOAH!!! What?!?\n\n\tThat last paragraph just about killed me. The Deuterocanonicals have\n\tALWAYS been accepted as inspired scripture by the Catholic Church,\n\twhich has existed much longer than any Protestant Church out there.\n\tIt was Martin Luther who began hacking up the bible and deciding to\n\tREMOVE certain books--not the fact that the Catholic Church decided\n\tto add some much later--that is the reason for the difference between\n\t"Catholic" and "Protestant" bibles. \n\n\tSorry for the tone--but that comment really irked me.\n\t\t\t\t\t- Mike Walker\n\t\t\t\t\t mdw33310@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu\n\t\t\t\t\t (Univ. of Illinois)\n',
'From: sasst11+@pitt.edu (Scott A Snowiss)\nSubject: IMAGINE\nOrganization: University of Pittsburgh\nLines: 16\n\nHello again netters,\n\tI finally received the information about Imagine for the PC. They are presently shipping Version 2.0 of the software and will release Version 3.0 in the first quarter of 1993 (or so they say). The upgrade from 2.0 to 3.0 is $100.00. To purchase Imagine 2.0, it costs $495.00 or if you are upgrading from another eligible (call them for info) modeler, it is only $200.00 plus shipping & handling. It requires a PC with 4 Megs a Math Coprocessor, and Dos 5.0 or up and a Microsoft Mouse and SVGA card.\n\tThanks for all your replies about the product. I have received many contrasting replies, but once I scrounge the money together, I think I will take the plunge. Thanks again.\n\tHere is the info for Impulse if you want to find out more or get the sheet they sent.\n\tImpulse Inc.\n\t8416 Xerxes Avenue North\n\tMinneapolis, MN 55444\n\t1-800-328-0184\n\nThanks again for all your replies.\nScott\n-- \nScott Snowiss\nsasst11+@.pitt.edu\n\n--Turn on...Jack in...Jack out...\n',
"From: HOLFELTZ@LSTC2VM.stortek.com\nSubject: Re: Krillean Photography\nNntp-Posting-Host: lstc2vm.stortek.com\nOrganization: StorageTek SW Engineering\nX-Newsreader: NNR/VM S_1.3.2\nLines: 53\n\nIn article <1993Apr19.205615.1013@unlv.edu>\ntodamhyp@charles.unlv.edu (Brian M. Huey) writes:\n \n>In article <1993Apr19.205615.1013@unlv.edu>, todamhyp@charles.unlv.edu (Brian M. Huey) writes:\n>> I think that's the correct spelling..\n>\n>The proper spelling is Kirlian. It was an effect discoverd by\n>S. Kirlian, a soviet film developer in 1939.\n>\n>As I recall, the coronas visible are ascribed to static discharges\n>and chemical reactions between the organic material and the silver\n>halides in the films.\n>\n>--\n> Tarl Neustaedter Stratus Computer\n> tarl@sw.stratus.com Marlboro, Mass.\n>Disclaimer: My employer is not responsible for my opinions.\n>\n>I think that's the correct spelling..\n> I am looking for any information/supplies that will allow\n>do-it-yourselfers to take Krillean Pictures. I'm thinking\n>that education suppliers for schools might have a appartus for\n>sale, but I don't know any of the companies. Any info is greatly\n>appreciated.\n> In case you don't know, Krillean Photography, to the best of my\n>knowledge, involves taking pictures of an (most of the time) organic\n>object between charged plates. The picture will show energy patterns\n>or spikes around the object photographed, and depending on what type\n>of object it is, the spikes or energy patterns will vary. One might\n>extrapolate here and say that this proves that every object within\n>the universe (as we know it) has its own energy signature.\n>\n>\nTo construct a Kirlian device find a copy of _Handbook of Psychic\nDiscoveries_ by Sheila Ostrander and Lynn Schroeder 1975 Library of\nCongress 73-88532. It describes the necessary equipment and\n suppliers for the Tesla coil or alternatives, the copper plate and\nsetup. I used a pack of SX-70 film and removed a single pack in a\ndark room, then made the exposure, put it back in the film pack and\nran it out through the rollers of the camera forinstant developing\nand very high quality. It is a good way to experience what Kirlian\nPhotography is really and what it is not. As you know all ready,\nit is the pattern in the bioplasmic energy fieldthat is significant.\nVariations caused by exposure time, distance from the plate, or\npressure on the plate, or variations in the photo materials are not\nimportant.\n \nHard copy mail; Mark C. High\n P O Box 882\n Parowan, UT\n 84761\n \n \n",
"From: kjiv@lrc.edu\nSubject: Hismanal, et. al.--side effects\nOrganization: Lenoir-Rhyne College, Hickory, NC\nLines: 22\n\nCan someone tell me whether or not any of the following medications \nhas been linked to rapid/excessive weight gain and/or a distorted \nsense of taste or smell: Hismanal; Azmacort (a topical steroid to \nprevent asthma); Vancenase.\n\nAlso:\nYou may have guessed, I'm an allergy sufferer--but I'm beginning to \nsuspect I'm also the victim of a Dr. toliberal with the prescription \np. The allergist I went to last Oct. simply inquired about my symptons \n( I was suffering chronic asthma attacks), gave me a battery of \nallergy tests, and went down a checklist of drugs (a photocopied \nsheet). I've gained out 30 lbs. since then though I haven't eaten \nmore or much differently than before; I'vsuffered depression; , \nfatigue; and I've experienced a foul smell and sense of taste for \nabout the last two months. I mentioned the lack of smell and taste to \nthis Dr. in Feb. and he said my sinuses did look a bit swollen (he \njust looked up my nose with his little light--the same one used for \nears), and prescribed Prednisone and Sulfatrim DS (severe headaches \nand a rash resulted, particularly after my week's worth of Prednisone \nran out). Now he wants to do a rhinoscopy to see if I have a bleeding \nulcer or polyps in my sinus cavities. I'm considering seeing another \ndoctor. Any suggestions/advice? I'd really appreciate it!\n",
'From: hahn@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (David James Hahn)\nSubject: Re: RE: HELP ME INJECT...\nArticle-I.D.: uwm.1r82eeINNc81\nReply-To: hahn@csd4.csd.uwm.edu\nOrganization: University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee\nLines: 39\nNNTP-Posting-Host: 129.89.7.4\nOriginator: hahn@csd4.csd.uwm.edu\n\nFrom article <1993Apr22.233001.13436@vax.oxford.ac.uk>, by krishnas@vax.oxford.ac.uk:\n> The best way of self injection is to use the right size needle\n> and choose the correct spot. For Streptomycin, usually given intra\n> muscularly, use a thin needle (23/24 guage) and select a spot on\n> the upper, outer thigh (no major nerves or blood vessels there). \n> Clean the area with antiseptic before injection, and after. Make\n> sure to inject deeply (a different kind of pain is felt when the\n> needle enters the muscle - contrasted to the \'prick\' when it \n> pierces the skin).\n> \n> PS: Try to go to a doctor. Self-treatment and self-injection should\n> be avoided as far as possible.\n> \nThe areas that are least likely to hurt are where you have a little \nfat. I inject on my legs and gut, and prefer the gut. I can stick\nit in at a 90 degree angle, and barely feel it. I\'m not fat, just\nhave a little gut. My legs however, are muscular, and I have to pinch\nto get anything, and then I inject at about a 45 degree angle,and it\nstill hurts. The rate of absorbtion differs for subcutaneous and \nmuscular injections however--so if it\'s a daily thing it would be\nbest not to switch places every day to keep consistencey. Although\nsome suggest switch legs or sides of the stomach for each shot, to prevent \nirritation. When you clean the spot off with an alcohol prep, \nwait for it to dry somewhat, or you may get the alcohol in the\npuncture, and of course, that doesn\'t feel good. A way to prevent\nirratation is to mark the spot that you injected. A good way to\ndo this is use a little round bandage and put it over the \nspot. This helps prevent you from injecting in the same spot,\nand spacing the sites out accuartely (about 1 1/2 " apart.)\n\nThis is from experience, so I hope it\'ll help you. (I have\ndiabetes and have to take an injection every morning.)\n\n\t\t\tLater,\n\t\t\t\tDavid\n-- \nDavid Hahn\nUniversity of Wisconsin : Milwaukee \nhahn@csd4.csd.uwm.edu\n',
'From: mwhaefne@infonode.ingr.com (Mark W. Haefner)\nSubject: Re: "Accepting Jesus in your heart..."\nOrganization: Intergraph Corporation, Huntsville, AL.\nLines: 10\n\n>\n>> Religion (especially Christianity) is nothing more than a DRUG.\n>> Some people use drugs as an escape from reality. Christians inject\n>> themselves with jeezus and live with that high. \n\n\nWhy would you say "especially Christianity"?\n\n\nMark\n',
'From: thester@nyx.cs.du.edu (Uncle Fester)\nSubject: Re: CView answers\nX-Disclaimer: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University\n\tof Denver for the Denver community. The University has neither\n\tcontrol over nor responsibility for the opinions of users.\nOrganization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept.\nLines: 36\n\nIn article <5103@moscom.com> mz@moscom.com (Matthew Zenkar) writes:\n>Cyberspace Buddha (cb@wixer.bga.com) wrote:\n>: renew@blade.stack.urc.tue.nl (Rene Walter) writes:\n>: >over where it places its temp files: it just places them in its\n>: >"current directory".\n>\n>: I have to beg to differ on this point, as the batch file I use\n>: to launch cview cd\'s to the dir where cview resides and then\n>: invokes it. every time I crash cview, the 0-byte temp file\n>: is found in the root dir of the drive cview is on.\n>\n>I posted this as well before the cview "expert". Apparently, he thought\nhe\n>knew better.\n>\n>Matthew Zenkar\n>mz@moscom.com\n\n\n Are we talking about ColorView for DOS here? \n I have version 2.0 and it writes the temp files to its own\n current directory.\n What later versions do, I admit that I don\'t know.\n Assuming your "expert" referenced above is talking about\n the version that I have, then I\'d say he is correct.\n Is the ColorView for unix what is being discussed?\n Just mixed up, confused, befuddled, but genuinely and\n entirely curious....\n\n Uncle Fester\n\n--\n : What God Wants : God wants gigolos :\n : God gets : God wants giraffes :\n : God help us all : God wants politics :\n : *thester@nyx.cs.du.edu* : God wants a good laugh :\n',
'From: dwestner@cardhu.mcs.dundee.ac.uk (Dominik Westner)\nSubject: need a viewer for gl files\nOrganization: Maths & C.S. Dept., Dundee University, Scotland, UK\nLines: 10\nNNTP-Posting-Host: cardhu.mcs.dundee.ac.uk\nX-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL9]\n\nHi, \n\nthe subject says it all. Is there a PD viewer for gl files (for X)?\n\nThanks\n\n\nDominik\n\n\n',
"From: doug@hparc0.aus.hp.com (Doug Parsons)\nSubject: Re: 3d-Studio V2.01 : Any differences with previous version\nOrganization: HP Australasian Response Centre (Melbourne)\nX-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8.5]\nLines: 10\n\nFOMBARON marc (fombaron@ufrima.imag.fr) wrote:\n: Are there significant differences between V2.01 and V2.00 ?\n: Thank you for helping\n\n\nNo. As I recall, the only differences are in the 3ds.set parameters - some\nof the defaults have changed slightly. I'll look when I get home and let\nyou know, but there isn't enough to actually warrant upgrading.\n\ndouginoz\n",
'From: ktt3@unix.brighton.ac.uk (Koon Tang)\nSubject: PostScript driver for GINO\nOrganization: The Univerity of Brighton, U.K.\nLines: 15\n\nDoes anybody know where I can get, via anonymous ftp or otherwise, a PostScript\ndriver for the graphics libraries GINO verison 3.0A ?\n\nWe are runnining on a VAX/VMS and are looking for a way outputing our plots to a\nPostScript file...\n\n\nThanks in advance...\n-- \nKoon Tang, internet: ktt3@unix.bton.ac.uk\nDepartment of Mathematical Sciences, uucp: uknet!itri!ktt3\nUniversity of Brighton,\nBrighton,\nBN2 4GJ,\nU.K.\n',
'From: lucio@proxima.alt.za (Lucio de Re)\nSubject: Re: atheist?\nReply-To: lucio@proxima.Alt.ZA\nOrganization: MegaByte Digital Telecommunications\nLines: 33\n\nTony Lezard <tony@mantis.co.uk> writes:\n\n>My opinion is that the strong atheist position requires too much\n>belief for me to be comfortable with. Any strong atheists out there\n>care to comment? As far as I can tell, strong atheists are far\n>outnumbered on alt.atheism by weak atheists.\n\nAt the cost of repudiating the FAQ, I think too much is made of the\nstrong vs weak atheism issue, although in the context of alt.atheism,\nwhere we\'re continually attacked on the basis that strong atheists\n"believe" in the non-existence of god, I think the separation is a\nvalid one.\n\nTo cover my arse, what I\'m trying to say is that there is an\ninfinitely grey area between weak and strong, as well as between\nstrong and the unattainable mathematical atheism (I wish!). Whereas I\n_logically_ can only support the weak atheist position, in effect I am\na strong atheist (and wish I could be a mathematical one). To\njustify my strong atheist position I believe I need only show that\nthe evidence presented in favour of any of the gods under scrutiny\nis faulty.\n\nIf I read the FAQ correctly, no argument for the existence of god\n(generic, as represented by mainstream theologians) has ever been\nfound to be unassailable. To me this is adequate evidence that the\n_real_god_ is undefinable (or at least no definition has yet been\nfound to be watertight), which in turn I accept as sufficient to\nbase a disbelief in each and every conceivable god.\n\nI\'m a little fuzzy on the edges, though, so opinions are welcome\n(but perhaps we should change the thread subject).\n-- \nLucio de Re (lucio@proxima.Alt.ZA) - tab stops at four.\n',
"From: bob@black.ox.ac.uk (Bob Douglas)\nSubject: Re: Sphere from 4 points?\nOrganization: Oxford University Computing Service, 13 Banbury Rd, Oxford, U\nLines: 94\nOriginator: bob@black\n\nIn article <2406@hcrlgw92.crl.hitachi.co.jp> steve@hcrlgw (Steven Collins) writes:\n>In article <1qkgbuINNs9n@shelley.u.washington.edu> bolson@carson.u.washington.edu (Edward Bolson) writes:\n>>Boy, this will be embarassing if it is trivial or an FAQ:\n>>\n>>Given 4 points (non coplanar), how does one find the sphere, that is,\n>>center and radius, exactly fitting those points? I know how to do it\n>>for a circle (from 3 points), but do not immediately see a \n>>straightforward way to do it in 3-D. I have checked some\n>>geometry books, Graphics Gems, and Farin, but am still at a loss?\n>>Please have mercy on me and provide the solution? \n>\n>Wouldn't this require a hyper-sphere. In 3-space, 4 points over specifies\n>a sphere as far as I can see. Unless that is you can prove that a point\n>exists in 3-space that is equi-distant from the 4 points, and this may not\n>necessarily happen.\n>\n>Correct me if I'm wrong (which I quite possibly am!)\n>\n>steve\n\nSorry!! :-)\n\nCall the four points A, B, C and D. Any three of them must be\nnon-collinear (otherwise all three could not lie on the surface\nof a sphere) and all four must not be coplaner (otherwise either\nthey cannot all lie on a sphere or they define an infinity of them).\n\nA, B and C define a circle. The perpendicular bisectors of AB, BC\nand CA meet in a point (P, say) which is the centre of this circle.\nThis circle must lie on the surface of the desired sphere.\n\nConsider the normal to the plane ABC passing through P. All points\non this normal are equidistant from A, B and C and its circle (in\nfact it is a diameter of the desired sphere). Take the plane\ncontaining this normal and D (if D lies on the normal any\nplane containing the normal will do); this plane is at right angles\nto the ABC one.\n\nLet E be the point (there are normally two of them) on the circumference\nof the ABC circle which lies in this plane. We need a point Q on the\nnormal such that EQ = DQ. But the intersection of the perpendicular\nbisector of ED and the normal is such a point (and it exists since D is\nnot in the plane ABC, and so ED is not at right angles to the normal).\n\n\nAlgorithm:\n\nIs the sphere well defined?\n (1) Check that A and B are not coincident (=> failure).\n (2) Find the line AB and check that C does not lie on it (=> failure).\n (3) Find the plane ABC and check that D does not lie in it (=> failure).\nYes. Find its centre.\n (1) Find the perpendicular bisectors of AB and AC.\n (2) Find their point of intersection (P).\n (3) Find the normal to the plane ABC passing through P (line N).\n (4) Find the plane containing N and D; find the point E on the\n\tABC circle in this plane (if D lies on N, take E as A).\n (4) Find the perpendicular bisector of ED (line L)\n (5) Find the point of intersection of N and L (Q).\nQ is the centre of the desired sphere\n\n\nPictures:\n\n(1) In the plane ABC\n\n\t\t\tA\n\n\n P\n \n B C\n\n(2) At right-angles to ABC, in the plane containing N and D\n\n\t\t\tE\n\n\n D\n\n line N\n --------------------P-------------Q---------------------------\n\n\nNumerically:\n\nIf ED << EP then Q will be very close to P (relative to the radius\nof the ABC circle) and subject to error. It's best to choose D so\nthat the least of AD, BD and CD is larger than for any other choice.\n-- \nBob Douglas Computing Services, University of Oxford\nInternet: bob@oxford.ac.uk\nAddress: 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN, UK\nTelephone: +44-865-273211\n",
'From: kbanner@philae.sas.upenn.edu (Ken Banner)\nSubject: Re: SATANIC TOUNGES\nOrganization: University of Pennsylvania\nLines: 51\n\nIn article <May.5.02.53.10.1993.28880@athos.rutgers.edu> koberg@spot.Colorado.EDU (Allen Koberg) writes:\n\n>.....................................................There is dis-\n>crepancy even among charismatic organizations as to the proper use\n>of tongues. Be it revelatory with interpretation, for prayer use,\n>or for signifying believers (which I doubt since any one can do it).\n>Pentecostals (Assembly of God, Church of Christ), seem to espouse all\n>three. Neo-pentecostals tend to view prayer use and as a sign as the\n>uses. Speaking in tongues during a service is not usually done by\n>neo-pentecostals because for the most part, they still attend Protestant\n>churches. Non-denominational churches seem to view the use as a sign\n>as merely optional, but recommended.\n\nKoberg,\n\n\tJust a couple of minor corrections here...\n\n\t1) The Churches of Christ do not usually believe in speaking in\ntongues, in fact many of them are known for being strongly opposed to\nPentecostal teaching. You are probably thinking of Church of God in\nChrist, the largest African-American Pentecostal denomination.\n\n\t2) I\'m not sure what you mean by "signifying believers" but it\nshould be pointed out that the Assemblies of God does not now, nor has it\never, held that speaking in tongues is the sign that one is a Christian. \nThe doctrine that traditional Pentecostals (including the A/G) maintain is\nthat speaking in tongues is the sign of a second experience after becoming\na Christian in which one is "Baptized in the Holy Spirit" That may be\nwhat you were referring to, but I point this out because Pentecostals are\nfrequently labeled as believing that you have to speak in tongues in order\nto be a Christian. Such a position is only held by some groups and not the\nmajority of Pentecostals. Many Pentecostals will quote the passage in\nMark 16 about "these signs following them that believe" but they generally\ndo not interpret this as meaning if you don\'t pactice the signs you aren\'t\n"saved".\n\n\t3) I know it\'s hard to summarize the beliefs of a movement that\nhas such diversity, but I think you\'ve made some pretty big\ngeneralizations here. Do "Neo-Pentecostals" only believe in tongues as a\nsign and tongues as prayer but NOT tongues as revelatory with a message? \nI\'ve never heard of that before. In fact I would have characterized them\nas believing the same as Pentecostals except less likely to see tongues as\na sign of Spirit Baptism. Also, while neo-Pentecostals may not be\ninclined to speak in tongues in the non-Pentecostal churches they attend,\nthey do have their own meetings and, in many cases, a whole church will be\ncharismatic.\n\nKen Banner\nDept. of Religious Studies\nUniversity of Pennsylvania\nkbanner@philae.sas.upenn.edu \n',
'From: idr@rigel.cs.pdx.edu (Ian D Romanick)\nSubject: Re: Fast polygon routine needed\nKeywords: polygon, needed\nArticle-I.D.: pdxgate.7306\nOrganization: Portland State University, Computer Science Dept.\nLines: 23\n\nIn article <C5nF8t.Gsq@news.cso.uiuc.edu> osprey@ux4.cso.uiuc.edu (Lucas Adamski) writes:\n>In article <1993Apr17.192947.11230@sophia.smith.edu> orourke@sophia.smith.edu (Joseph O\'Rourke) writes:\n>>\tA fast polygon routine to do WHAT?\n>To draw polygons of course. Its a VGA mode 13h (320x200) game, done in C and\n>ASM. I need a faster way to draw concave polygons that the method I have right\n>now, which is very slow.\n\nWhat kind of polygons? Shaded? Texturemapped? Hm? More comes into play with\nfast routines than just "polygons". It would be nice to know exaclty what\nsystem (VGA is a start, but what processor?) and a few of the specifics of the\nimplementation. You need to give more info if you want to get any answers! :P\n\n - Ian Romanick\n Dancing Fool of Epsilon\n\n[]--------------------------------------------------------------------[]\n | Were the contained thoughts \'opinions\', EPN.NTSC.quality = Best|\n | PSU would probably not agree with them. |\n | |\n | "Look, I don\'t know anything about |\n | douche, but I do know Anti-Freeze |\n | when I see it!" - The Dead Milkmen |\n[]--------------------------------------------------------------------[]\n',
"From: phs431d@vaxc.cc.monash.edu.au\nSubject: Re: The arrogance of Christians\nOrganization: Monash University - Melbourne. Australia.\nLines: 41\n\nIn article <Apr.13.00.08.47.1993.28427@athos.rutgers.edu>, hayesstw@risc1.unisa.ac.za (Steve Hayes) writes:\n> \n> Say, for example, there are people living on a volcanic island, and a group \n> of geologists determine that a volcano is imminent. They warn the people on \n> the island that they are in danger, and should leave. A group of people on \n> the island is given the task of warning others of the danger.\n> \n> They believe the danger is real, but others may not. \n> \n> Does that mean that the first group are NECESSARILY arrogant in warning \n> others of the danger? Does it mean that they are saying that their beliefs \n> are correct, and all others are false?\n\nBut what if the geologists are wrong and these people are warning of a\nnon-existent danger? Analogies can only push an argument so far (on both\nsides). Both Melinda's and yours assume the premises used to set up your\nrespective analogies are true and thus the correct conclusion will arise.\n\nThe important point to note is the different directions both sides come from.\nChristians believe they know the TRUTH and thus believe they have the right\n(and duty) to tell the TRUTH to all. \n\nChristians can get offended if others do not believe (what is self-evidently\nto them) the TRUTH. Non-christians do not believe this is the TRUTH and get\noffended at them because they (christians) claim to know the TRUTH.\n\n(BTW this argument goes for anyone, I am not just bagging christians)\n\nNeither side can be really reconciled unless one of the parties changes their\nmind. As Melinda pointed out, there is no point in arguing along these lines\nbecause both approach from a different premise. A more useful line of\ndiscussion is WHY people believe in particular faiths.\n\nPersonally, I don't mind what anyone believes as long as they allow me mine\nand we can all live peacefully.\n\n> Steve Hayes, Department of Missiology & Editorial Department\n\n-- \nDon Lowe, Department of Physics, Monash University, \nMelbourne, Victoria, Australia, 3168.\n",
'From: sciysg@nusunix1.nus.sg (Yung Shing Gene)\nSubject: Mission Aviation Fellowship\nOrganization: National University of Singapore\nLines: 3\n\nHi,\n\tDoes anyone know anything about this group and what they\ndo? Any info would be appreciated. Thanks!\n',
"From: prestonm@cs.man.ac.uk (Martin Preston)\nSubject: Problems grabbing a block of a Starbase screen.\nKeywords: Starbase, HP\nLines: 26\n\nAt the moment i'm trying to grab a portion of a Starbase screen, and store it\nin an area of memory. The data needs to be in a 24-bit format (which\nshouldn't be a problem as the app is running on a 24 bit screen), though\ni'm not too fussy about the exact format.\n\n(I actually intend to write the data out as a TIFF but that bits not the\nproblem)\n\nDoes anyone out there know how to grab a portion of the screen? The\nblock_read call seems to grab the screen, but not in 24 bit colour,\nwhatever the screen/window type i get 1 byte per pixel. \n\nthanks in advance,\n\nMartin\n\n\n\n\n--\n---------------------------------------------------------------------------\n|Martin Preston, (m.preston@manchester.ac.uk) | Computer Graphics |\n|Computer Graphics Unit, Manchester Computing Centre, | is just |\n|University of Manchester, | a load of balls. |\n|Manchester, U.K., M13 9PL Phone : 061 275 6095 | |\n---------------------------------------------------------------------------\n",
'From: cmgrawbu@eos.ncsu.edu (CHRISTOPHER M GRAWBURG)\nSubject: HELPHLPHELPHELP\nReply-To: cmgrawbu@eos.ncsu.edu (CHRISTOPHER M GRAWBURG)\nOrganization: North Carolina State University, Project Eos\nLines: 149\n\n*******\n******* This is somewhat long, but pleas read it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!\n*******\n\n\n\nBoy am i glad you decided to read this. I\'ve got a problem that \nI need as many people\'s help from as possible.\n\nBefore I go in to the details of this, let me go ahead and tell\nyou that (though it may sound it) this is not one of those boy\nmeets girl problem...at least not totally like that to me....Anyway...\n\nOK, I am a 19 year old Sophmore at NCSU. About 10 years ago, my family\nand I were vacationing at the coast in a cottage we rented. Across the\nstreet, was ths girl who would whistle at me whenever she saw me...\nher name in Erin. Well, we became friends that week at the beach and have\nbeen writing each other for about 10 years....there was a period of about\n2 years we lost contact..but that was a while ago. \n\nBy the way...Erin lives in Kansas and me in NC.\n\nOK, last year in one of her letters, she says that she is coming\nback to NC to see some of her family who are gonna be there. So I\ndrove about 4 hours to see her. This is where it begins....I spent\nthe whole day with Erin....one of the best days of my life. Even though\nwe had been writing each other, we still had to get used to being\nin person....she has got to be the most incredible woman I ever met.\n(She\'s one year older than me BTW). I mean, no person in the world could\nask for a better person. Not only was she incredibly beautiful (not to \nmention WAY out of my league...although I\'m not unattractive mind you), but\nshe had a great personality and a great sence of humor. Her family\nis one of those families who goes to church but that is about the\nextent of their Christianity...you know the kind of people. But she\nknows I am a Christian. \n\nWell, you get the idea of what I think of her. If there is ever such\na thing as love at first sight....I found it. That was last year...I kid\nyou not when I say that I have thought about her EVERY day since then.\n\nIn out letters, Erin and I always kid each other about not finding\ndates..(which is true for me, but I know it can\'t be for her).\nShe has had some problems at home, her folks split up and she ended\nup leaving school....Now we are at the present...\n\nLet me give you part of the letter I got from her last week....\n\n\n"Okay, now I\'m going to try to explain my life to you. I\'m not\ngoing to KU anymore because something just isn\'t right. College\njust wasn\'t clicking with me here. Greek life is really big here and\nthat just isn\'t my way. I wasn\'t taking any classes that truly interested\nme & i really have no idea of what i want to do with my life. I was\ninterested in something medical (Physical Therpy) & I love working with \nkids, but \'it\' just didn\'t work for me at this university. And my parents\ncould tell.\n\n"So I\'m working full time at the Bass Store [Bass shoes that is] and now\nI have a part-time job at a local daycare. I work in the infant room\nM-W-F. I\'ve really enjoyed it so far. It spices up my week a little bit and \nit\'s great experience.\n\n"As of now, I\'m not planning on going back to school in the very\nnear future. The main reason being my indecision on what I want to\nstudy. But I definatley plan on going back within the next couple of\nyears. Where? I have no idea--except for one thing, it won\'t be\nto Kansas.\n\n"Right noew I\'m discussing a promotion with my boss and district \nmanager. It looks like I\'ll train at the store I work at now for\nabout 4-6 months as Assistant Manager and when that\'s done, I\'ll \nbasically be given a list of stores (newly or soon to be built) to \nchose where i would like to manage. I\'ve pretty much decided on either\none of the Carolinas (hopeully close to the beach) Wouldn\'t it\nbe fun to actually see each other more than once every few years??\nWhat do you think abou that? I would like to know your opinion.\n\n"This job would pretty much be temporary. But it is VERY GOOD pay\nand any thye of management experience would look good on an application\nor resume. The company is solid and treats it employees very well. Good\nbenefits, bonuses & medical plans. Plus- after 1 year of full-time\nservice, they will reimburse tuition. I do have school money waitng\nfor me, but this will help, especially since I will probably end up \npaying out of state tuition wherever I go.\n\n"Chris, i really would like to know what you think of my decision. I \nrespect your opinion. I\'ve been completely lost for what to do for \nsoooo long that when the opportunity came along it sounded really \ngood. I do like my job although I\'m about 99.9% sure that i want\nto do more with my life than reatil management..but it IS something.\nI don\'t think earning about $20,000 a year for a 20 year old female\nis too bad. \n\n"Anyway, onto your career decisions. I\'ll solve your problem right now,\nMARRY ME...\n\n"You can do your pilot thing-- I like to be by myself sometimes! Seriously\n(or not as seriously)- do what will make you the happiest, worry about the\nhome life later."\n\n***********\n\nOK, well I\'m sure you see what has got me so uptight. What do you\nthink she meant about the marraige thing?? \n\nI dream at night about marrying her, and then she mentions it in her\nletter!!! I don\'t know what to think??\n\nSince she wants to move to the Carolina\'s should i search out a \nBass store near here and aske her to come to Carolina???\n\nI always pick on those people who graduate from high school and\nget married....but what does she mean??? \n\nI\'ve had a lot of stress lately with exams and also the fact that \nI don\'t date beacause 1) No time 2) Not that much $$ 3) that\nmost college women are wrapped up in the social scene with the\nGreeks whic as a Christian I can\'t support-----and here\nshe says she doesn\'t like the Greek thing either!!\n\nMaybe I\'m so stunned because there is actually a girl that I am\nso attracted to paying some real attention to me.\n\nI mean, what if she did move to NC...what would I do??? I\'m\nonly 19 and she 20....I\'m only a Sophmore struggling through\nclasses..\n\nI have prayed about this over the past year from time to time..\nsaying, "God if she is the right one, let the situation open up.."\n\nCould this be my sign???\n\nI would do ANYTHING to get her to NC...here is some moree that makes \nit worse..\n\nShould I call her?? I\'m terrible over the phone. I don\'t even like\nto talk to my friends here for longer than 3 minutes.\n\nI mean, what would a girl as perfect as her want with a very\naverage guy like me??\n\nI\'m really confused....I would really appreciate any help i can get.\n\nThanx \n\nChris\n\n[I have a feeling that it might be more appropriate to talk with\nChris directly via email. --clh]\n',
'From: livesey@solntze.wpd.sgi.com (Jon Livesey)\nSubject: Re: Morality? (was Re: <Political Atheists?)\nOrganization: sgi\nLines: 51\nNNTP-Posting-Host: solntze.wpd.sgi.com\n\nIn article <1ql5snINN4vm@gap.caltech.edu>, keith@cco.caltech.edu (Keith Allan Schneider) writes:\n|> livesey@solntze.wpd.sgi.com (Jon Livesey) writes:\n|> \n|> >>So, you are saying that it isn\'t possible for an instinctive act\n|> >>to be moral one?\n|> >\n|> >I like to think that many things are possible. Explain to me\n|> >how instinctive acts can be moral acts, and I am happy to listen.\n|> \n|> For example, if it were instinctive not to murder...\n\nThen not murdering would have no moral significance, since there\nwould be nothing voluntary about it.\n\n|> \n|> >>That is, in order for an act to be an act of morality,\n|> >>the person must consider the immoral action but then disregard \n|> >>it?\n|> >\n|> >Weaker than that. There must be the possibility that the\n|> >organism - it\'s not just people we are talking about - can\n|> >consider alternatives.\n|> \n|> So, only intelligent beings can be moral, even if the bahavior of other\n|> beings mimics theirs?\n\nYou are starting to get the point. Mimicry is not necessarily the \nsame as the action being imitated. A Parrot saying "Pretty Polly" \nisn\'t necessarily commenting on the pulchritude of Polly.\n\n|> And, how much emphasis do you place on intelligence?\n\nSee above.\n\n|> Animals of the same species could kill each other arbitarily, but \n|> they don\'t.\n\nThey do. I and other posters have given you many examples of exactly\nthis, but you seem to have a very short memory.\n\n|> Are you trying to say that this isn\'t an act of morality because\n|> most animals aren\'t intelligent enough to think like we do?\n\nI\'m saying:\n\n\t"There must be the possibility that the organism - it\'s not \n\tjust people we are talking about - can consider alternatives."\n\nIt\'s right there in the posting you are replying to.\n\njon.\n',
'Subject: Re: Bates Method for Myopia\nFrom: jc@oneb.almanac.bc.ca\nOrganization: The Old Frog\'s Almanac, Nanaimo, B.C.\nKeywords: Bates method\nSummary: Proven a hoax long ago\nLines: 15\n\nDr. willian Horatio Bates born 1860 and graduated from med school\n1885. Medical career hampered by spells of total amnesia. Published in\n1920, his great work "The Cure of Imperfect Eyesight by Treatment With-\nout Glasses", He made claims about how the eye actually works that are\nsimply NOT TRUE. Aldous Huxley was one of the more "high profile"\nbeleivers in his system. Mr. Huxley while giving a lecture on Bates system\nforgot the lecture that he was supposedely reading and had to put the\npaper right up to his eyes and then resorted to a magnifying glass from\nhis pocket. book have been written debunking this technique, however\nthey remain less read than the original fraud. cheers\n\n jc@oneb.almanac.bc.ca (John Cross)\n The Old Frog\'s Almanac (Home of The Almanac UNIX Users Group) \n(604) 245-3205 (v32) <Public Access UseNet> (604) 245-4366 (2400x4)\n Vancouver Island, British Columbia Waffle XENIX 1.64 \n',
'From: halsall@murray.fordham.edu (Paul Halsall)\nSubject: Weirdness of Early Christians\nReply-To: halsall@murray.fordham.edu\nOrganization: J. Random Misconfigured Site\nLines: 76\n\n\n\tI am a good Catholic boy. A convert no less, attracted by the\nrational tradition [Aquinas et al] and the emotional authenticity\n[in comp. with the faddishness of Anglicanism] to Roman Catholicism. I\nnever had much time for the pope - or any other heirarchs - but I did, and\ndo, believe in the sacremental system. I always felt quite happy to\nlook down my nose at those such as John Emery [a few posts back] who\nhad to engage in circuitous textual arguments to prove their faith, entirely\noblivious to the fact that a dozen other faiths can do the same [with\nmiracles too], and that since their arguments depend on the belief in the\nBible as God\'s sole revelation, it was not very good logic to argue\nthat the Bible proved God. No, I was happy to accept the CHURCH as God\'s\nrevelation. It was the Church after all that existed before the Bible, the\nChurch that choose [under grace of course] the canon of scripture. Protestant\nludicrosity, I thought, was shown by Protestants breathtaking acceptance\nof Luther\'s right to reject a dozen or so books he disliked.\n\tBut recently I read Peter Brown\'s _Body and Society_. It is very\nwell researched, and well written. But is raises some very upsetting\nquestions. The early Christians were weird - even more so than today\'s\ncarzy fundies. They had odd views on sex, odder views on the body, \ntotally ludicrous views about demons, and distinctly uncharitable\nviews about other human beings. \n\tnow the question is this: were the first Christians just as\nweird, but we\'ve got used to them, or did the pristine "Fall of the\nChurch" happen within one generation. It certainly did\'nt have to\nwait until the Triumph of the Church under Constantine. If so,\nwha does this say about God\'s promise to always support the Church.\nIt\'s no use throwing the usual Protestant pieties about the Church\nnot being an organization at me. It\'s a community or it is nothing,\nand it was the early communities that were weird. The institional\nchurch was a model of sanity by comparison.\n\tI would be interested in serious Catholic and Orthodox responses to\nthis entirely serious issue. I\'m not sure it is an issue for Protestants\nwith their "soul alone with Jesus" approach, but for we who see the\n"ecclesia" as a "koinoia" over time and space, the weird early\nChristians are a problem.\n\n[This is an exaggeration of the Protestant view. Many Protestants\nhave a strong appreciation for the role of the Church. "The soul\nalone with God" is certainly important for Protestants, but it\'s by no\nmeans the whole story.\n\nI have read the sort of history you talk about. As you point out,\nProtestants don\'t have quite the same problem you do, because we\nbelieve that the church had a Fall at some point. However Protestant\nmythology typically places the Fall around the time of Constantine (or\nmore likely, regard it as happening in a sort of cumulative fashion,\nstarting from Constantine but getting worse as the Pope accumulated\npower during the medieval period.) The consequences of having it\nearlier are somewhat worrisome even to us. Most Protestants accept\nthe theological results of the early ecumenical councils, including\nsuch items as the Trinity and Incarnation. Indeed in the works of\nReformers such as Luther and Calvin, you\'ll find Church Fathers such\nas Augustine quoted all the time. I think you\'ll find many\nProtestants resistant to the idea that the Early Church as a whole was\n"wierd". (There is an additional problem for Protestants that I don\'t\nmuch want to talk about in this context, since it\'s been looked at\nrecently -- that\'s the question of whether one can really think of\nAugustine and other Fathers as being proto-Protestants. Their views\non Mary, the authority of the Pope, etc, are not entirely congenial to\nProtestant thought.)\n\nOne thing that somewhat worries me is a question of methodology.\nThere are certainly plenty of wierd people in the early church. What\nconcerns me is that they may be overrepresented in what we see. We\nsee every Christian who courted martyrdom. But I think there\'s good\nreason to believe that most ordinary Christians were more prudent than\nthat. We see the heroic virgins. But I think there\'s good reason to\nthink that many Christians were happily married. I can\'t help\nsuspecting that the early church had the same range of wierdos and\nsane people that we do now. I think there\'s also a certain level of\n"revisionism" active in history at the moment. I don\'t mean that\nthey\'re manufacturing things out of whole cloth. But don\'t you think\nthere might be a tendency to emphasize the novel?\n\n--clh]\n',
"From: khan0095@nova.gmi.edu (Mohammad Razi Khan)\nSubject: Re: Am I going to Hell?\nOrganization: GMI Engineering&Management Institute, Flint, MI\nLines: 32\n\ntbrent@ecn.purdue.edu (Timothy J Brent) writes:\n\n>I have stated before that I do not consider myself an atheist, but \n ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^\nSo you believe in the existance of One creator I assume.\n\n\n>definitely do not believe in the christian god. The recent discussion\n>about atheists and hell, combined with a post to another group (to the\n>effect of 'you will all go to hell') has me interested in the consensus \n>as to how a god might judge men. As a catholic, I was told that a jew,\n>buddhist, etc. might go to heaven, but obviously some people do not\n>believe this. Even more see atheists and pagans (I assume I would be \n>lumped into this category) to be hellbound. I know you believe only\n>god can judge, and I do not ask you to, just for your opinions.\n\nOk, god has the disclaimer, reserves the right to judge individual\ncases. If we believe him to be loving, then we also believe him to be\nable to serve justice to all. Don't worry if a Jew, or athiest is\ngoing to heaven or hell, for that is god to judge (although truly\nif you were concerned you could only worry abput those who refuse to\nbelieve/satisfy gods decrees) as much as keeping yourself straight.\nIf you see something going on that is wrong, discuss it and explore it\nbefore making summary judgement. People have enough free will to choose\nfor themselves, so don't force choices on them, just inform them\nof what they're choices are. God will take care of the rest in his justice.\n\n>Thanks,\n>-Tim\n--\nMohammad R. Khan / khan0095@nova.gmi.edu\nAfter July '93, please send mail to mkhan@nyx.cs.du.edu\n",
'From: Club@spektr.msk.su (Koltovoy Nikolay Alexeevich)\nSubject: [NEWS]Re:List or image processing systems?\nDistribution: eunet\nReply-To: Club@spektr.msk.su\nOrganization: Moscow Scientific Industrial Ass. Spectrum\nLines: 137\n\n\n Moscow Scientific Inductrial Association "Spectrum" offer\n VIDEOSCAN vision system for PC/AT,wich include software and set of\n controllers.\n\n SOFTWARE\n\n For support VIDEOSCAN family program kit was developed. Kit\n includes more then 200 different functions for image processing.\n Kit works in the interactive regime, and has include Help for\n non professional users.\n There are next possibility:\n - input frame by any board of VIDEOSCAN family;\n - read - white image to - from disk;\n - print image on the printer;\n - makes arithmetic with 2 frames;\n - filter image;\n - work with gistogramme;\n - edit image.\n - include users exe modules.\n\n CONTROLLER VS9\n\n The function of VS-9 controller is to load TV-images into PC/AT.\n VS-9 controller allows one to load a fragment of the TV-frame from\n a field of 724x600 pixels.\n The clock rate is 14,7 MHz when loading an image with 512 pixel in\n the line and 7,4 MHz when loading a 256 pixels image. This\n provides the equal pixel size of input image in both horizontal\n and vertical directions.\n The number of gray levels in any input modes is 256.\n Video signal capture time - 2.5s.\n\n CONTROLLER VS52\n\n The purpose of the controller is to enter the TV images into a IBM\n PC AT or any other machine of that type. The controller was\n created on the base of modern elements, including user\n programmable gate arrays.\n The controller allows to digitize a input signal with different\n resolutions. Its flexible architecture makes possible to change\n technical parameters. Instead of TV signal one can process any\n other analog signal (including signals from slow-speed scanning\n devices).\n The controller has the following technical characteristics:\n - memory volume - from 256 K to 2 Mb ;\n - resolution when working with standard video signal - from 64x64\n to 1024x512 pixels ;\n - resolution when working in slow input regime - up to 2048x1024\n pixels;\n - video signal capture time - 40 ms.\n - maximum size of a screen when memory volume is 2Mb - 2048x1024\n pixels ;\n - number of gray level - 256 ;\n - clock rate for input - up to 30 MHz ;\n - 4 input video multiplexer ;\n - input/output lookup table (LUT);\n - possibility to realize "scroll" and "zoom";\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n - 8 lines for external synchronization (an input using external\n controlling signal) ;\n - electronic adjustment of black and white reference for analog -\n digital converter;\n - possibility output image to the color RGB monitor.\n One can change all listed above functions and parameters of the\n controller by reprogramming it.\n\n\n IMAGE PROCESSOR VS100\n\n\n Image processor VS100 allows to digitize and process TV\n signal in real time. It is possible digitize TV signal with\n 512*512*8 resolution and realize arithmetic and logic operation\n with two images.\n Processor was created on the base of modern elements\n including user programmable gate arrays and designed as a board\n for PC.\n Memory volume allows write to the 256 frames with 512*512*8\n format. It is possible to accumulate until 16 images.\n The processor has the following technical characteristics:\n - memory volume to 64 Mb;\n - number of the gray level - 256;\n - 4 input video multiplexer;\n - input/output lookup table;\n - electronic adjustment for black and white ADC reference;\n - image size from 256*256 to 8192*8192;\n - possibility color and black / white output;\n - possibility input from slow-scan video sources.\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n',
"From: conditt@tsd.arlut.utexas.edu (Paul Conditt)\nSubject: Re: Being right about messiahs\nOrganization: Applied Research Laboratories, University of Texas at Austin\nLines: 11\n\n[The following is my comment on an article by Desiree Bradley. --clh]\n\n>By the way, from Koresh's public statement it's not so clear to me\n>that he is claiming to be Christ.\n\nKoresh did originally claim to be the Christ, but then backed off and\nsaid he was a prophet. The latest news at 8:00 CDT from Waco is that\nthe feds broke through a wall of the compound with a tank. No news\nbesides that at this time.\n\nPaul\n",
'From: aaron@binah.cc.brandeis.edu (Scott Aaron)\nSubject: Re: iterations of the bible\nReply-To: aaron@binah.cc.brandeis.edu\nOrganization: Brandeis University\nLines: 24\n\nOFM replies to a question on the multiplicity of translations of the bible,\n\n>As far as I know, no Christians\n>believe that the process of copying manuscripts or the process of\n>translating is free of error. \n\nUnfortunately, this isn\'t true. On another news group earlier this year,\nsomeone posted that the King James Bible was the divinely inspired version\nof the Bible in English and was, therefore, inerrant; all other English\ntranslations were from Satan, trying to deceive the body of Christ. A\nfew years ago, the pastor of a church I was attending showed me a poster\nadvertising the availability of a certain man to address congregations.\nVery prominantly on the poster was the fact that the man used only the KJV.\nThe idea that the KJV is THE English Bible is more prevalent than many\nmight think.\n\n -- Scott at Brandeis\n\n\t"But God demonstrates His "The Lord bless you, and keep you;\n\t own love for us, in that the Lord make His face shine on you,\n\t while we were yet sinners, and be gracious to you;\n\t Christ died for us."\t the Lord lift up His countenance on you,\n\t\t\t\t and give you peace."\n\t\t-- Romans 5:8 [NASB]\t\t-- Numbers 6:24-26 [NASB]\n',
'From: lady@uhunix.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu (Lee Lady)\nSubject: Re: Science and methodology (was: Homeopathy ... tradition?)\nSummary: Science is not mere methodology. \nOrganization: University of Hawaii (Mathematics Dept)\nExpires: Sat, 1 May 1993 10:00:00 GMT\nLines: 85\n\nIn article <lsj4gnINNl6c@saltillo.cs.utexas.edu> turpin@cs.utexas.edu (Russell Turpin) writes:\n>-*-----\n>I wrote:\n>>> ... Or, to use a phrasing that I think is more accurate, science \n>>> is the investigation of phenomena that avoids methods and reasoning \n>>> that are known to be erroneous from past foul-ups. \n>\n>In article <C57Iu2.HBn@bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au> bd@psych.psy.uq.oz.au writes:\n>> I can agree with this if you are talking about the less fundamental\n>> aspects of scientific method. ...\n> ...\n>> ... In fact, I don\'t see the alternative, as I don\'t think that the \n>> fundamentals are capable of experimental investigation. In saying\n>> this I am agreeing with the work of people like Kuhn (1970), \n>> Feyerabend (1981) and Lakatos (1972).\n> ....\n>While methodology cannot be subject to the same kind of "experimental\n>investigation," as that to which it is applied, it *can* be critically\n>appraised. Methodologies can be compared to each other, sometimes by\n>the conflicting results they produce. This kind of critical appraisal\n>and comparison, together with the inappropriateness of existing\n>methodologies for new fields of study, is what drives the evolution of\n>methodologies and how we think about them. \n\nAs usual, you are missing the whole point, Russell, because you are not\nwilling to even consider questionning your basic article of faith, which\nis that science is merely a matter of methodology and that the highest\npurpose of science is to avoid making mistakes. \n\nThis is like saying that the most important aspect of business management\nis accurate bookkeeping. \n\nIf science were no more than methodology and not making mistakes, it\nwould be a poor thing indeed. What was the methodology of Darwin? What\nwas the methodology of Einstein? What was, for that matter, the\nmethodology of Jenner and Pasteur? \n\n\nIn an earlier article, Russell Turpin writes: \n\n>None of the foregoing should be read as meaning that we should\n>open the door to practitioners of quackery and psuedo-science.\n>Modern advocates of homeopathy, chiropracty, and traditional\n>Chinese medicine receive little respect because, for the most\n>part, they use methods and reasoning that the kind of research\n>Lee Lady recommends has shown to be terribly faulty. (This does\n>*not* imply that all their treatments are ineffective. It *does*\n>imply that those who rely on faulty methodology and reasoning are\n>incapable of discovering *which* treatments are effective and\n>which are not.)\n\nFirst of all, I think you are arguing against a straw man, because I\ndon\'t think that anyone here is arguing that quackery, pseudo-science,\nhomeopathy, chiropracty, and traditional Chinese medicine should be\naccepted as science. I, in particular, think the basic ideas of\nhomeopathy and chiropracty seem extremely flaky. \n\nWhat some of us do believe, however, is that some of these things\n(including some of the flaky ideas) are deserving of serious scientific\nattention. \n\nIf in fact it were true, as you have stated above, that those who do not\nuse the currently fashionable methodology can have no idea what is\neffective and what is not, then science today would not exist. For all\nof current science is based on the past work of scientists whose\nmethodology, by current standards, was seriously flawed. \n\nIt is certainly true that as methodology improves, we need to re-examine\nthose results derived in the past using less perfect methodologies. It is\nalso true that the results obtained by people today who still rely on \nthose early methodologies needs to be re-examined in a more rigorous \nfashion by those qualified to do so credibly. \n\nBut to say that nobody who fails to do elaborate double-blind studies is\ncapable of knowing their ass from a hole in the ground and to say that no\nideas that come from outside the scientific establishment could possibly\nbe worthy of serious investigation ... this truly marks one\'s attitude as\ndoctrinaire, cultist. This attitude is not compatible with a belief in\nreason. \n\n--\nIn the arguments between behaviorists and cognitivists, psychology seems \nless like a science than a collection of competing religious sects. \n\nlady@uhunix.uhcc.hawaii.edu lady@uhunix.bitnet\n',
'From: geb@cs.pitt.edu (Gordon Banks)\nSubject: Re: Helium non-renewable?? (was: Too many MRIs?)\nReply-To: geb@cs.pitt.edu (Gordon Banks)\nOrganization: Univ. of Pittsburgh Computer Science\nLines: 18\n\nIn article <lsj1gdINNkor@saltillo.cs.utexas.edu> turpin@cs.utexas.edu (Russell Turpin) writes:\n>-*----\n>How does the helium get consumed? I would have thought that failure\n>to contain it perfectly would result in its evaporation .. back into \n>the atmosphere. Sounds like a cycle to me. Obviously, it takes \n>energy to run the cycle, but I seriously doubt that helium consumption\n>is a resource issue.\n>\nIt\'s not a cycle. Free helium will escape from the atmosphere due to\nits high velocity. It won\'t be practical to recover it. It has\nto be mined.\n\n\n-- \n----------------------------------------------------------------------------\nGordon Banks N3JXP | "Skepticism is the chastity of the intellect, and\ngeb@cadre.dsl.pitt.edu | it is shameful to surrender it too soon." \n----------------------------------------------------------------------------\n',
'From: dxf12@po.cwru.edu (Douglas Fowler)\nSubject: Giving "spiritual gifts"\nReply-To: dxf12@po.cwru.edu (Douglas Fowler)\nOrganization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)\nLines: 20\n\n\n I just thought I\'d share a nice experience before my exam today.\nI was walking down the streets on our campus, and a beggar came up and asked\nme for any spare change I might have. I had a dollar or so that I gave her,\nand - not wanting to give away all my money to strangers (I generally give\na dollar as that will buy a little food at McDonalds or something) - I offered\nher some "spiritual gifts," as I called them, rather than gifts of money.\nI talked of how great I felt that God had made such a pretty day, and how\nnice it was to give to people - she then said she was getting married soon.\nShe talked about how she and her husband had very little (they may not have\neven had a house, for all I know), but that they felt a very special love in\nthe Lord, an unselfish kind of caring. It warmed my heart to know that 2\npeople can have so little monetarily, and realize that spiritually they are\nindeed very rich. A good lesson for all of us who say we want more, more,\nmore; what we really need cannot be counted, or sold, or bought.\n-- \nDoug Fowler: dxf12@po.CWRU.edu Heaven is a great big hug that lasts forever\n "And when that One Great Scorer comes to mark against your name;\n He writes, not whether you\'ve won or lost, but how you played the game"\n --Grantland Rice\n',
'From: JJMARVIN@pucc.princeton.edu\nSubject: Re: Losing your temper is not a Christian trait\nOrganization: Princeton University\nLines: 25\n\nIn article <Apr.15.00.58.22.1993.28891@athos.rutgers.edu>\nruthless@panix.com (Ruth Ditucci) writes:\n \n> One of the tell tale signs/fruits that give non-christians away - is\n>when their net replies are acrid, angry and sarcastic.\n>\n>We in the net village do have a laugh or two when professed, born again\n>christians verbally attack people who might otherwise have been won to\n>christianity and had originally joined the discussions because they were\n>"spiritually hungry." Instead of answering questions with sweetness and\n>sincerity, these chrisitan net-warriors, "flame" the queries.\n \nAlthough I certainly agree with the basic sentiment that snideness is\nunloving and ineffective, I\'m a little disturbed by the formulation that\nill temper is not a Christian trait. It seems like a false argument to\nsay that anyone who displays trait X must not be a Christian. Could\nwell be a sinning Christian, but a Christian nonetheless.\nAnger is human, and Christians are\nhuman: Christians get angry and defensive and react badly just like\neveryone else. It\'s not perfect righteousness but the effort of seeking\nrighteousness that marks a dedicated Christian. And one of the greatest\ngifts of faith to me is that of seeking and accepting forgiveness for\nmy failures. Expecting flawless behavior from self or others isn\'t\nChristianity: it\'s perfectionism.\n \n',
'From: sandy@nmr1.pt.cyanamid.COM (Sandy Silverman)\nSubject: Re: Barbecued foods and health risk\nIn-Reply-To: markmc@halcyon.com\'s message of 19 Apr 1993 01:07:22 -0700\nNntp-Posting-Host: nmr1.pt.cyanamid.com\nOrganization: American Cyanamid Company\n\t<1qtmjq$ahd@nwfocus.wa.com>\nLines: 11\n\nFrom my reading of the popular, and scientific, literature, I think that the\nbenzopyrene-from-burned-fat problem is probably real but very small compared to\nother kinds of risks. (This type of problem also occurs with stove-top pan\ngrilling.) One possible remedy I have read about is to take some vitamin C with your meal of barbecue (or bacon, e.g.). This MAY make sense because vit. C\nis an antioxidant which could counteract the adverse affect of some of the \nchemicals in question. Bon Apetit! \n\n--\nSanford Silverman >Opinions expressed here are my own<\nAmerican Cyanamid \nsandy@pt.cyanamid.com, silvermans@pt.cyanamid.com "Yeast is Best"\n',
'From: rjb@akgua.att.com\nSubject: Re: When are two people married in God\'s eyes?\nOrganization: AT&T\nLines: 69\n\nIn article <Apr.23.02.55.25.1993.3117@geneva.rutgers.edu>, rjs2@po.cwru.edu (Richard J. Szanto) writes:\n> In a previous article, randerso@acad1.sahs.uth.tmc.edu (Robert Anderson) says:\n> \n> >I would like to get your opinions on this: when exactly does an engaged\n> >couple become "married" in God\'s eyes? Some say that if the two have\n> >publically announced their plans to marry, have made their vows to God, and\n> >are unswervingly committed to one another (I realize this is a subjective\n> >qualifier) they are married/joined in God\'s sight.\n> \n> I have discussed this with my girlfriend often. I consider myself married,\n> though legally I am not. Neither of us have been with other people sexually,\n> although we have been with each other. We did not have sexual relations\n> until we decided to marry eventually. For financial and distance reasons,\n> we will not be legally married for another year and a half. Until then,\n> I consider myself married for life in God\'s eyes. I have faith that we\n> have a strong relationship, and have had for over 4 years, and will be\n> full of joy when we marry in a church. First, however, we must find a\n> church( we will be living in a new area when we marry, and will need to\n> find a new church community).\n> \n> Anyway, I feel that if two people commit to marriage before God, they are\n> married and are bound by that commitment.\n> \n> -- \n> \t\t\t\t\t\t-Rick Szanto\n\n\nRick has nailed the problem down pretty well.\n\nAs I can find no Scripture (have I missed it ?) that details\nwhen you are married, I have to make some assumptions based\non the PRINCIPLES of Scripture. \n\nIt seems to me that it takes 3 parties to make a marriage:\nhusband-to-be, wife-to-be, and God. If you promise before\neach other and God that you will convenant together to be\nmarried, then...you are (IMO).\n\nSo why do we have the ceremonial part ? That seems to be\nthere for "connectedness" in the Body of Christ. My brothers\nand sisters ought to be involved so that there can be some\naccountability on both our parts. That\'s part of the concept\nfrom Hebrews about "not forsaking the assembling of yourselves\ntogether as is the custom of some." We need each other because\nLone Ranger Christians and Lone Ranger Marriages smack of a\nself sufficiency that the I don\'t see in the NT. Does anyone\nsee the Paul Simon "I am a rock, I am an island..." model anywhere\nin Christianity. (Song lyrics show your age :-) ) ?\n\nFurther, since marriage is a legal matter/institution in the USA\nand many other places, and such laws do not specifically go\ncrosswise to the clear teachings of Scripture, we ought to\nobey them to avoid even the appearance of "evil" (I Thess 5:22)\n\nSo this would imply at least a civil ceremony before marriage,\nbut keep in mind we are at least doing all of this for the \nconscience of others because back to the beginning...you are\nmarried when you and your intended promise each other and God\nto be in convenant. (IMO)\n\nWhat ch\'all think ?\n\nBobby - akgua!rjb\n\n[In some states, the kind of commitment described in Richard Szanto\'s\nposting can create a common law marriage. Indeed his posting itself\nmight go a long way towards establishing that a marriage exists,\nshould the issue ever end up in court. He might want to consult a\nlawyer who is familiar with common law marriage in his state. --clh]\n',
'From: livesey@solntze.wpd.sgi.com (Jon Livesey)\nSubject: Re: <Political Atheists?\nOrganization: sgi\nLines: 15\nDistribution: world\nNNTP-Posting-Host: solntze.wpd.sgi.com\n\nIn article <930404.111651.1K0.rusnews.w165w@mantis.co.uk>, mathew@mantis.co.uk (mathew) writes:\n|> In article <1993Apr2.065230.18676@blaze.cs.jhu.edu>\n|> arromdee@jyusenkyou.cs.jhu.edu (Ken Arromdee) writes:\n|> >The "automobile system" kills non-driving passengers, not to mention\n|> >pedestrians. You need not drive or even use a car to be killed by one.\n|> \n|> Indeed, and it kills far more than a system of public transport would. I am\n|> therefore entirely in favour of banning private cars and replacing them with\n|> trains, buses, taxis, bicycles, and so on.\n\nSeconded. I cycle to work each day, and if we could just get\nthose damned cars and their cretinous drivers off the road, it\nwould be a lot more fun.\n\njon.\n',
'From: stank@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (Stan Krieger)\nSubject: Re: [soc.motss, et al.] "Princeton axes matching funds for Boy Scouts"\nArticle-I.D.: cbnewsl.1993Apr6.041343.24997\nOrganization: Summit NJ\nLines: 39\n\nstudent writes:\n\n>Somewhere, roger colin shouse writes about "radical gay dogma." Somewhere else\n>he claims not to claim to have a claim to knowing those he doesn\'t know.\n>There are at least twenty instances of this kind of muddleheaded fourth-\n>reich-sophistique shit in his postings. Maybe more. In fact I\'m not sure\n>the instances could be counted, because they reproduce like a virus the more\n>you consider his words.\n>\tMy question is this: what is the best response to weasels like\n>shouse and Stan Krieger? Possibilities:\n>\t(a) study them dispassionately and figure out how they work, then\n>(1) remember what you\'ve learned so as to combat them when they or their clones\n>get into office\n>(2) contribute your insights to your favorite abnormal psych ward\n>\t(b) learn to overcome your repugnance for serial murder\n\nThis posting is totally uncalled for in rec.scouting.\n\nThe point has been raised and has been answered. Roger and I have\nclearly stated our support of the BSA position on the issue;\nspecifically, that homosexual behavior constitutes a violation of\nthe Scout Oath (specifically, the promise to live "morally straight").\n\nThere is really nothing else to discuss. Trying to cloud the issue\nwith comparisons to Blacks or other minorities is also meaningless\nbecause it\'s like comparing apples to oranges (i.e., people can\'t\ncontrol their race but they can control their behavior).\n\nWhat else is there to possibly discuss on rec.scouting on this issue?\nNobody, including BSA, is denying anybody the right to live and/or\nworship as they please or don\'t please, but it doesn\'t mean that BSA\nis the big bad wolf for adhering to the recognized, positive, religious\nand moral standards on which our society has been established and on\nwhich it should continue to be based.\n-- \nStan Krieger All opinions, advice, or suggestions, even\nUNIX System Laboratories if related to my employment, are my own.\nSummit, NJ\nsmk@usl.com\n',
'From: L.Newnham@bradford.ac.uk (Leonard Newnham)\nSubject: Re: Islam And Scientific Predictions (was\nOrganization: University of Bradford, UK\nLines: 54\nX-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL9]\n\nUmar Khan (khan@itd.itd.nrl.navy.mil) wrote:\n>I strongly suggest that you look up a book called THE BIBLE, THE QURAN, AND\n>SCIENCE by Maurice Baucaille, a French surgeon. It is not comprehensive,\n\n> He was unable\n>to find a wealth of scientific statements in the Holy Qur\'an, but,\n>what he did find made sense with modern understanding. So, he\n>investigated the Traditions (the hadith) to see what they had to\n>say about science. they were filled with science problems; after\n>all, they were contemporary narratives from a time which had, by\n>pour standards, a primitive world view. His conclusion was that,\n>while he was impressed that what little the Holy Qur\'an had to\n>say about science was accurate, he was far more impressed that the\n>Holy Qur\'an did not contain the same rampant errors evidenced in\n>the Traditions. How would a man of 7th Century Arabia have known\n>what *not to include* in the Holy Qur\'an (assuming he had authored\n>it)? \n\nThis book is worth a read to get a sensible view of this issue.\n\n\nThe book is in two sections. Section 1 contains a fairly reasonable\nanalysis of the Bible, showing many inconsistencies between the Bible\nand modern science. Well we all know that, no surprises.\n\nSection 2 analyses the Koran\'s version of the Old Testament stories,\nand seems, on the face of it, to present a good case showing the Koran\nis consistent with modern science. However, it was plain to me, that\nthis consistency was only possible by the vague phraseology of the\nKoran. Take the flood, for example, the bible is full of detail,\n("forty days and forty nights", "pair of every animal", etc.), we all\nknow this is nonsense. The Koran\'s description of the same event is\nso obscure as to make possible an interpretation such as "A big river \nflooded for a few days and caused much damage". Yes, no contradiction\nbut also not much fact.\n\nThe Koran might be consistent with modern science, but being\nconsistent due to its vagueness compared with other books of that\ntime, does not seem much of an achievement.\n\nThe book concludes by saying something like, the Koran must have had\ndivine inspiration because at the time it was written there were a lot\nof (to us now) ridiculous ideas about the universe, and none of them\ncan be found in the Koran! Arguing for the greatness of a book by\ntalking about what it does not contain seems absurd in the extreme.\n\nThe above is, of course, from memory so I may have missed some points.\n\n\n\n-- \n\nLeonard e-mail: L.Newnham@bradford.ac.uk\n',
'From: ccgwt@trentu.ca (Grant Totten)\nSubject: MS-Windows screen grabber?\nKeywords: windows screen grab document graphics\nLines: 20\nReply-To: ccgwt@trentu.ca (Grant Totten)\nOrganization: Trent University\n\n\nHowdy all,\n\nWhere could I find a screen-grabber program for MS-Windows? I\'m \nwriting up some documentation and it would be VERY helpful to include\nsample screens into the document.\n\nPlease e-mail as I don\'t usualy follow this group.\n\nThanks a lot,\n\nGrant\n\n--\nGrant Totten, Programmer/Analyst, Trent University, Peterborough Ontario\nGTotten@TrentU.CA Phone: (705) 748-1653 FAX: (705) 748-1246\n========================================================================\n"The human brain is like an enormous fish -- it is flat and slimy and\nhas gills through which it can see."\n\t\t-- Monty Python\n',
"From: cs89mcd@brunel.ac.uk (Michael C Davis)\nSubject: Re: WBT (WAS: Re: phone number of wycliffe translators UK)\nOrganization: Brunel University, Uxbridge, UK\nLines: 17\n\nporam%mlsma@att.att.com wrote:\n: Having met Peter Kingston (of WBT) some years back, he struck me \n: as an exemplery and dedicated Christian whose main concern was with\n: translation of the Word of God and the welfare of the people\n: group he was serving.\n: WBT literature is concerned mainly with providing Scripture\n: in minority languages.\n\nYes, in fact Peter is now at Wycliffe HQ in the U.K., and is a member of my\nchurch. I would fully endorse the above -- Peter is a very Godly man, with a\npassion for serving Christ.\n\nOn one occasion he specifically addressed the issue of ``cultural\ninterference'' in a sermon, presumably from his experience of allegations\ndirected at Wycliffe. (Perhaps I could find the tape...?)\n-- \nMichael Davis (cs89mcd@brunel.ac.uk)\n",
'From: geb@cs.pitt.edu (Gordon Banks)\nSubject: Re: tuberculosis\nReply-To: geb@cs.pitt.edu (Gordon Banks)\nOrganization: Univ. of Pittsburgh Computer Science\nLines: 26\n\nIn article <1993Mar29.181406.11915@iscsvax.uni.edu> klier@iscsvax.uni.edu writes:\n\n>\n>Multiple drug resistance in TB is a relatively new phenomenon, and\n>one of the largest contributing factors is that people are no longer\n>as scared of TB as they were before antibiotics. (It was roughly as\n>feared as HIV is now...)\n>\n\nNot that new. 20 years ago, we had drug addicts harboring active TB\nthat was resistant to everything (in Chicago). The difference now\nis that such strains have become virulent. In the old days, such\nTB was weak. It didn\'t spread to other people very easily and just\ninfected the one person in whom it developed (because of non-compliance\nwith medications). Non-compliance and development of resistant strains\nhas been a problem for a very long time. That is why we have like 9\ndrugs against TB. There is always a need to develop new ones due to\nsuch strains. Now, however, with a virulent resistant strain, we\nare in more trouble, and measures to assure compliance may be necessary\neven if they entail force.\n\n-- \n----------------------------------------------------------------------------\nGordon Banks N3JXP | "Skepticism is the chastity of the intellect, and\ngeb@cadre.dsl.pitt.edu | it is shameful to surrender it too soon." \n----------------------------------------------------------------------------\n',
'From: miner@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu\nSubject: Re: Ancient Books\nOrganization: University of Kansas Academic Computing Services\nLines: 20\n\nIn article <Apr.11.01.02.37.1993.17787@athos.rutgers.edu>, atterlep@vela.acs.oakland.edu (Cardinal Ximenez) writes:\n\n> I don\'t think it\'s possible to convince atheists of the validity of \n> Christianity through argument. We have to help foster faith and an\n> understanding of God. I could be wrong--are there any former atheists here\n> who were led to Christianity by argument?\n\nThis is an excellent question and I\'ll be anxious to see if there are\nany such cases. I doubt it. In the medieval period (esp. 10th-cent.\nwhen Aquinas flourished) argument was a useful tool because everyone\n"knew the rules." Today, when you can\'t count on people knowing even\nthe basics of logic or seeing through rhetoric, a good argument is\noften indistinguishable from a poor one.\n\nSorry; just one of my perennial gripes...<:->\n\nKen\n-- \nminer@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu | Nobody can explain everything to everybody.\nopinions are my own | G. K. Chesterton\n',
'From: johnsd2@rpi.edu (Dan Johnson)\nSubject: Re: intolerance - eternal life - etc\nReply-To: johnsd2@rpi.edu\nOrganization: not Sun Microsystems\nLines: 186\n\nI apologize if this article is slightly confusing, and late. The origonal\ndraft didn\'t make it through the moderators quote-screens. So I did\nviolence to it, but if you remember the article I am responding\nto it should still make sence.\n\nIn article 1850@geneva.rutgers.edu, jsledd@ssdc.sas.upenn.edu (James Sledd) writes:\n>Hi Xian Netters, God bless you\n\nWhat, no hello for heathan netters?\n\nI feel all left out now. :(\n\n[deletia- table of content, intro, homosexuality]\n\n>\n>INCREDIBLY CHOPPED UP POST\n\n[deletia- incorrect attributions]\n\nUh, you have your attributions wrong, you were responding\nto my article, so Dan Johnson should be the 1st one.\n\n>In article 28388@athos.rutgers.edu, jayne@mmalt.guild.org \n>(Jayne Kulikauskas) writes:\n\n[deletia- no free gifts speil nuked by moderator fiat.]\n\n>I find that I am dissatisfied with the little purposes that we can\n>manufacture for ourselves. Little in the cosmic sense.\n\nAh, in the _cosmic_ sence.. but who lives in the cosmic sence?\nNot me! Cosmicly, we don\'t even exist for all practical purposes.\nI can hardly use the Cosmic Sence Of Stuff as a guide to life.\nIt would just say: "don\'t bother."\n\nLuckily for mortals, there are many sences of scale you can talk\nabout. In a human sence, you can have big purposes.\n\n> Even the\n>greatest of the great pharos are long gone, the pyramids historical\n>oddities being worn down by the wind, eventually to be turned into dust.\n\nBut the influence of Aristotle, Confucious, Alexander, Ceasar and\ncountless others is still with us, although their works have perished.\n\nBut they have changed to course of history, and while humanity exists,\ntheir deeds cannot be said to have come to nothing, even if they\nare utterly forgotten.\n\n>Mankind itself will one day perish.\n\nOne day, surely. (well, unless you believe in the Second Coming, which\nI do not)\n\nBut in that time we can make a difference.\n\n> Without some interconnectedness\n>that transcends the physical, without God, it is all pointless in the\n>end.\n\nIn the end. But it must be the end; until then, there is all the\npoint you can muster. And when that end comes, there will be nobody\nto ask, "Gee, I don\'t think James Sledd\'s deeds are gonna make\nmuch of a difference, ulitmately, ya know?".\n\nBut they will have already have made a difference, great or small,\nbefore the end.\n\nWhy must your ends be eternal to be worthwhile?\n\n> Most people are able to live with that, and for them little\n>purposes (success, money, power, effecting change, helping others)\n>suffice.\n\nLittle is in the eye of the beholder, of course.\n\n> I suppose they never think about the cosmic scale, or are at\n>least able to put it out of their minds.\n\nI don\'t doubt it. But I have thought about the cosmic scale. And\nit does not seem to mean much to us, here, today.\n\n>To me, it is comforting to know that reality is an illusion.\n\nI would not find this comforting. But perhaps it is merely my\ndefinitions. Here\'s what I think the relevant terms are:\n\n"Reality"\tThat which is real.\n"Illusion"\tThat which is not real, but seems to be.\n"Real"\t\tObjectively Existing\n\nFor "reality" to be an "illusion" would mean, then:\n\nThat which is real is not real, but seems to be.\n\nOr:\n\nThat which objectively exists, does not objectively exist, but\ndoes seem to objectively exist.\n\nFrom which we can conclude, that unless you want to get a\ncontradiction, that no things objectively exist.\n\nBut I have a problem with this because I would like to say\nthat *I* objectively exist, if nothing else. Cogito Ergo Sum\nand all that.\n\nPerhaps you do not mean all that, but rather mean:\n"Objective Reality is Unreachable by humans."\n\nWhich is not so bad, and so far as I know is true.\n\n> That the\n>true reality underneath the the physical is spirit.\n\nHave on. If reality is an illusion, isn\'t True Reality an illusion\ntoo? And if True Reality is spirit, doens\'t that make Spirit an Illusion\nas well?\n\nIf I am not distinctly confused, this is getting positively Buddhist.\n\n> That this world is a school of sorts, where we learn\n>and grow, and our souls mature.\n\nThat is one hell of a statement, although perhaps true.\n\nDo you mean to imply that it was *intended* to be so? If so,\nplease show that this is true. If not, please explain how this\ncan give a purpose to anything.\n\n> That gives a purpose to my little purposes,\n\nHow does it do that?\n\nWouldn\'t the world=school w/ intent idea make the world a preparation for\nsome *greater* purpose, rather than a purpose in itself.\n\n> and takes some of the pressure off.\n\nWhat pressure?\n\n> It\'s not so necessary to make this life a success in human terms\n>if you\'re really just here to learn.\n\nIt is not necessary to be a success in human terms, unless your\ngoals either include doing so or require doing so before they\nthemselves can be achived.\n\nIndeed, many people have set goals for themselves that\ndo not include success in human terms as _I_ understand it. Check\nout yer Buddhist monk type guy. Out for nirvana, which is not\nat all the same thing.\n\n> It\'s more important to progress,\n>grow, persist, to learn to love yourself and others and to express your\n>love, especially when it\'s dificult to do so. Honest effort is rewarded\n>by God, he knows our limitations.\n\nWhy is learning to love a goal? What happens if you fail in this\ngoal? To you? To God? To the mysterious Purpose?\n\n\n[deletia- question about immortailty and my answer deleted because it was\n mostly quote.]\n\n>TWO SERIOUS QUESTIONS/INVITATIONS TO DISCUSSION\n>1. What is the nature of eternal life?\n>2. How can we as mortals locked into space time conceive of it?\n>\n>Possible answer for #2: The best we can do is Metaphor/Analogy\n>Question 2A What is the best metaphor?\n\nI\'ll have a crack at that.\n\n(1) The nature of eternal life is neatly described by its name: It is\nthe concept of life without death, life without end.\n\n(2) No. We can put together word to describe it, but we cannot imagine it.\n\n(2a) No metaphor is adequate next to eternity; if it were we could not\nunderstand it either. (or so I suspect)\n---\n\t\t\t- Dan Johnson\nAnd God said "Jeeze, this is dull"... and it *WAS* dull. Genesis 0:0\n\nThese opinions probably show what I know.\n',
'From: dwatson@cser.encore.com (Drew Watson)\nSubject: Ethics vs. Freedom\nOrganization: Encore Computer Corporation\nLines: 70\n\nBeing a parent in need of some help, I ask that you bear with me while I\ndescribe the situation which plagues me...\n\nI am a divorced father. Chance would have it that "my weekend" with my \ndaughter has fallen upon Easter Weekend this year.\n\nAlthough I am Presbyterian, I had married a Catholic woman. We decided\nthat the Catholic moray of indoctrination of the spouse into the faith\nwas too confining (and restrictive due to time as we had already set a\ndate), and we were married in a Christian Church which was non-denominational.\n\nDuring the years of our marriage, we did not often attend church. \n\nWhen our daughter was born, some years later, my wife insisted that she \nbe baptised as Catholic. This wasn\'t a problem with me.\n\nDuring a separation of five years, my ex-wife was taken ill with a disease\nthat affected her mental capacities. She was confined to a mental ward for\ntwo months before it was diagnosed. It has since been treated "effectively".\n\nIn other words, professionals have deemed her a functioning member of society.\n\nDuring the recuperation, my ex-wife has embraced Buddism. Her influence over\nmy daughter has been substantial, and has primarily allowed me only Saturday\nvisitation for a number of years. During this period I have read Bible study\nbooks to my daughter, and tried to keep her aware of her Christian heritage.\n\nLast fall, our divorce was finalized after a year of viscious divorce hearings.\nAt that time I was awarded visitation rights every other weekend. At that time,\nI started taking my daughter to church quite often, although not every weekend.\nI did this to attempt to strengthen the Christian ethic and expose her to a\nreligious community.\n\nToday, Easter Sunday, I took my daughter to church. When it came time for \nCommunion, my daughter took the bread (The body of Christ) but left the wine\n(The blood of Christ) professing that she was too young for wine. She then\nballed the bread up in her hand and tried to descretely throw it under the\npew in front of us.\n\nI feel this was a slap in the face to me, my religion, and an afront to her\nreligious heritage. It can be construed as breaking several of the commandments\nif you try. I really felt dishonored by the action.\n\nMy daughter is only nine years old, but I think she should have been old and\nmature enough to realize her actions. I have difficulty blaming her directly\nfor religious teachings her mother swears to, but when I discussed this with\nmy daughter she made it clear she believed in Buddhism and not Christianity.\n\nMy initial response of anger (moderated) was to suggest if there is no faith\nin Christ then why does she celebrate Easter, or Christmas? I suggested I\nwould never force her to practice my religious beliefs by celebrating holidays\nwith her again.\n\nI do not want to "drive her from the fold", and would be willing to allow her\nto continue practicing Buddhism (as though I had a choice seeing her only\nfor two days out of fourteen) but I want her to want to embrace Christianity.\n\nAny suggestions?\n\nIf you have a response, please e-mail me a copy. (I\'m not a regular reader\nof this newsgroup.) (Naturally, feel free to post too!)\n\nThanks, and I hope you\'ve had a happy Easter.\n\nDrew\n\n-- \nDrew Watson Systems analysis Encore Computer Corp\ndwatson@encore.com (301)497-1800 || (703)691-3500 Customer services\n=============================================================================\n',
"From: halat@panther.bears (Jim Halat)\nSubject: Re: Prophetic Warning to New York City\nReply-To: halat@panther.bears (Jim Halat)\nLines: 8\n\nI just started reading the group. I was wondering if someone\ncould re-post exactly what the Prophetic Warning to NYC was.\n\nThanks\n-jh\n\n[I suggest sending it to him via email with a cc to me. I'll hold\nit in my files in case someone else needs it. --clh]\n",
'From: cpage@two-step.seas.upenn.edu (Carter C. Page)\nSubject: Re: "Accepting Jeesus in your heart..."\nOrganization: University of Pennsylvania\nLines: 34\n\nIn article <Apr.10.05.32.36.1993.14391@athos.rutgers.edu> gsu0033@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (Eric Molas) writes:\n>Firstly, I am an atheist. . . .\n\n(Atheist drivel deleted . . .)\n\n\t\t\tUntitled\n\t\t\t========\n\n\tA seed is such a miraculous thing,\n\tIt can sit on a shelf forever.\n\tBut how it knows what to do, when it\'s stuck in the ground,\n\tIs what makes it so clever.\n\tIt draws nutrients from the soil through it\'s roots,\n\tAnd gathers its force from the sun\n\tIt puts forth a whole lot of blossoms and fruit,\n\tThen recedes itself when it is done.\n\tWho programmed the seed to know just what to do?\n\tAnd who put the sun in the sky?\n\tAnd who put the food in the dirt for the roots?\n\tAnd who told the bees to come by?\n\tAnd who makes the water to fall from above,\n\tTo refresh and make everything pure?\n\tPerhaps all of this is a product of love,\n\tAnd perhaps it happened by chance.\n\t\t\t\tYeah, sure.\n\n\t\t\t-Johnny Hart, cartoonist for _B.C._\n\n+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=\nCarter C. Page | Of happiness the crown and chiefest part is wisdom,\nA Carpenter\'s Apprentice | and to hold God in awe. This is the law that,\ncpage@seas.upenn.edu | seeing the stricken heart of pride brought down,\n | we learn when we are old. -Adapted from Sophocles\n+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=+-=-+-=+-=-+=-+-=-+-=-+=-+-=\n',
'From: isc10144@nusunix1.nus.sg (CHAN NICODEMUS)\nSubject: Greek Wordprocessor/Database.\nOrganization: National University of Singapore\nLines: 25\n\nHi there,\n\n\tDoes anyone know about any greek database/word processor that\ncan do things like count occurrences of a word, letter et al?\n\n\tI\'m posting this up for a friend who studies greek.\n\nThanks,\n\nNico.\n\nP.S.\tCan you email as I seldom look into usenet nowadays.\n--\n+--------------------------------------+-------------------------------------+\n| NICODEMUS CHAN,\t | Raffles Hall, NUS, Kent Ridge Cres. |\n| Department of Information Systems | Singapore 0511. (Tel : 02-7797751) |\n| & Computer Science, | [Hometown Address]: |\n| National University of Singapore. | 134, Nanyang Estate, Jinjang North |\n| Kent Ridge Crescent, | 52000, Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia |\n| SINGAPORE 0511 | E-Mail : isc10144@nusunix.nus.sg |\n| | channico@iscs.nus.sg |\n+--------------------------------------+-------------------------------------+\n \n "Call unto me and I will answer you and show thee great and unsearchable \n things you do not know." Jeremiah 33:3 \n',
'Subject: Technical Help Sought\nFrom: jiu1@husc11.harvard.edu (Haibin Jiu)\nOrganization: Harvard University Science Center\nNntp-Posting-Host: husc11.harvard.edu\nLines: 9\n\nHi! I am in immediate need for details of various graphics compression\ntechniques. So if you know where I could obtain descriptions of algo-\nrithms or public-domain source codes for such formats as JPEG, GIF, and\nfractals, I would be immensely grateful if you could share the info with\nme. This is for a project I am contemplating of doing.\n\nThanks in advance. Please reply via e-mail if possible.\n\n--hBJ\n',
'From: Dan Wallach <dwallach@cs.berkeley.edu>\nSubject: FAQ: Typing Injuries (4/4): Software Monitoring Tools [monthly posting]\nSupersedes: <typing-injury-faq/software_732179032@cs.berkeley.edu>\nOrganization: University of California, Berkeley\nLines: 333\nExpires: 22 May 1993 01:24:03 GMT\nReply-To: Richard Donkin <richardd@hoskyns.co.uk>\nNNTP-Posting-Host: elmer-fudd.cs.berkeley.edu\nSummary: software tools to help out injured typists\nOriginator: dwallach@elmer-fudd.cs.berkeley.edu\n\nArchive-name: typing-injury-faq/software\nVersion: 1.8, 7th December 1992\n\nThis FAQ is actually maintained by Richard Donkin <richardd@hoskyns.co.uk>.\nI post it, along with the other FAQ stuff. If you have questions, you want\nto send mail to Richard, not me. -- Dan\n \n \n\t\t Software Tools to help with RSI\n\t\t -------------------------------\n \nThis file describes tools, primarily software, to help prevent or manage RSI.\nThis version now includes information on such diverse tools as calendar\nprograms and digital watches...\n \nPlease let me know if you know any other tools, or if you have information\nor opinions on these ones, and I will update this FAQ.\n\nI am especially interested in getting reviews of these products from people\nwho have evaluated them or are using them. \n \nRichard Donkin \nInternet mail: richardd@hoskyns.co.uk \nTel: +44 71 814 5708 (direct)\nFax: +44 71 251 2853\n\nChanges in this version:\n\n Added information on StressFree, another typing management tool \n for Windows.\n\n\nTYPING MANAGEMENT TOOLS: these aim to help you manage your keyboard use,\nby warning you to take a break every so often. The better ones also include\nadvice on exercises, posture and workstation setup. Some use sound hardware to\n \nwarn of a break, others use beeps or screen messages.\n\nOften, RSI appears only after many years of typing, and the pain has\na delayed action in the short term too: frequently you can be typing\nall day with little problem and the pain gets worse in the evening.\nThese tools act as an early warning system: by listening to their\nwarnings and taking breaks with exercises, you don\'t have to wait for your \nbody to give you a more serious and painful warning - that is, getting RSI.\n\n \n Tool: At Your Service (commercial software)\n Available from:\n\tBright Star\n\tTel: +1 (206) 451 3697\n Platforms: Mac (System 6.0.4), Windows\n Description:\n\tProvides calendar, keyboard watch, email watch, and system info. \n\tWarns when to take a break (configurable). Has a few recommendations\n\ton posture, and exercises. Sound-oriented, will probably work best \n\twith sound card (PC) or with microphone (Mac). Should be possible\n\tto record your own messages to warn of break.\n \n Tool: AudioPort (sound card and software)\n Available from:\n\tMedia Vision\n\tTel: +1 (510) 226 2563\n Platforms: PC\n Description:\n\tA sound card to plug into your PC parallel port.\n\tIncludes \'At Your Service\'.\n \n Tool: Computer Health Break (commercial software)\n Available from:\n\tEscape Ergonomics, Inc\n\t1111 W. El Camino Real\n\tSuite 109\n\tMailstop 403\n\tSunnyvale, CA\n\tTel: +1 (408) 730 8410\n Platforms: DOS\n Description:\n\tAimed at preventing RSI, this program warns you to take\n\tbreaks after a configurable interval, based on clock time, or\n\tafter a set number of keystrokes -- whichever is earlier.\n\tIt gives you 3 exercises to do each time, randomly selected from\n\ta set of 70. Exercises are apparently tuned to the type of work\n\tyou do - data entry, word processing, information processing.\n\tExercises are illustrated and include quite a lot of text on\n\thow to do the exercise and on what exactly the exercise does.\n\n\tCHB includes hypertext information on RSI that you can use \n\tto learn more about RSI and how to prevent it. Other information\n\ton non-RSI topics can be plugged into this hypertext viewer.\n\tA full glossary of medical terms and jargon is included.\n\n\tCHB can be run in a DOS box under Windows, but does not then\n\twarn you when to take a break; it does not therefore appear\n\tuseful when used with Windows.\n\n\tCost: $79.95; quantity discounts, site licenses.\n\n Comments:\n\tThe keystroke-counting approach looks good: it seems better\n\tto measure the activity that is causing you problems than to\n\tmeasure clock time or even typing time. The marketing stuff\n\tis very good and includes some summaries of research papers,\n\tas well as lots of arguments you can use to get your company \n\tto pay up for RSI management tools. \n\n Tool: EyerCise (commercial software)\n Available from:\n\tRAN Enterprises\n\tOne Woodland Park Dr.\n\tHaverhill, MA 01830, US\n\tTel: 800-451-4487 (US only)\n Platforms: Windows (3.0/3.1), OS/2 PM (1.3/2.0) [Not DOS]\n Description:\n\tAimed at preventing RSI and eye strain, this program warns you to take\n\tbreaks after a configurable interval (or at fixed times). Optionally\n\tdisplays descriptions and pictures of exercises - pictures are\n\tanimated and program beeps you to help you do exercises at the\n\tcorrect rate. Includes 19 stretches and 4 visual training \n\texercises, can configure which are included and how many repetitions\n\tyou do - breaks last from 3 to 7 minutes. Also includes online help \n\ton workplace ergonomics. \n\n\tQuote from their literature:\n\n\t"EyerCise is a Windows program that breaks up your day with periodic\n\tsets of stretches and visual training exercises. The stretches work\n\tall parts of your body, relieving tension and helping to prevent\n\tRepetitive Strain Injury. The visual training exercises will improve\n\tyour peripheral vision and help to relieve eye strain. Together these\n\thelp you to become more relaxed and productive."\n \n\t"The package includes the book _Computers & Visual Stress_ by Edward C.\n\tGodnig, O.D. and John S. Hacunda, which describes the ergonomic setup\n\tfor a computer workstation and provides procedures and exercises to\n\tpromote healthy and efficient computer use. \n\t\n\tCost: $69.95 including shipping and handling, quantity discounts\n\tfor resellers. Free demo ($5 outside US).\n \n Comments:\n\tI have a copy of this, and it works as advertised: I would say\n\tit is better for RSI prevention than RSI management, because it\n\tdoes not allow breaks at periods less than 30 minutes. Also, it\n\tinterrupts you based on clock time rather than typing time, which\n\tis not so helpful unless you use the keyboard all day. Worked OK on\n\tWindows 3.0 though it did occasionally crash with a UAE - not sure\n\twhy. Also refused to work with the space bar on one PC, and has\n\tone window without window controls. Very usable though, and does not\n\trequire any sound hardware.\n\n Tool: Lifeguard (commercial software)\n Available from:\n\tVisionary Software\n\tP.O. Box 69447\n\tPortland, OR 97201, US\n\tTel: +1 (503) 246-6200\n Platforms: Mac, DOS (Windows version underway)\n Description:\n\tAimed at preventing RSI. Warns you to take a break\n\twith dialog box and sound. Includes a list of exercises\n\tto do during breaks, and information on configuring your\n\tworkstation in an ergonomic manner. Price: $59;\n\tquantity discounts and site licenses. The DOS product is\n\tbought in from another company, apparently; not sure how\n\tequivalent this is to the Mac version.\n\t\n\tThe Mac version got a good review in Desktop Publisher \n\tMagazine (Feb 1991). Good marketing stuff with useful \n\t2-page summaries of RSI problems and solutions, with \n\treferences.\n \n Tool: StressFree (commercial software, free usable demo)\n Available from:\n\tLifeTime Software\n\tP.O. Box 87522\n\tHouston\n\tTexas 77287-7522, US\n\tTel: 800-947-2178 (US only)\n\tFax: +1 (713) 474-2067\n\tMail: 70412.727@compuserve.com\n\n\tDemo (working program but reduced functions) available from:\n\t Compuserve: Windows Advanced Forum, New Uploads section, or \n\t\t\tHealth and Fitness Forum, Issues At Work section. \n\t Anon FTP: ftp.cica.indiana.edu (and mirroring sites)\n\n Platforms: Windows (3.0/3.1) (Mac and DOS versions underway)\n Description:\n\tAimed at preventing RSI, this program warns you to take\n\tbreaks after a configurable interval (or at fixed times). \n\tDisplays descriptions and pictures of exercises - pictures are\n\tanimated and program paces you to help you do exercises at the\n\tcorrect rate. Quite a few exercises, can configure which ones\n\tare included to some extent. Online help.\n\n\tVersion 2.0 is out soon, Mac and DOS versions will be based\n\ton this.\n\n\tCost: $29.95 if support via CompuServe or Internet, otherwise $39.95. \n Site license for 3 or more copies is $20.00 each.\n\t (NOTE: prices may have gone up for V2.0).\n \n Comments:\n\tI have had a play with this, and it works OK. Its user interface\n\tdesign is much better in 2.0, though still a bit unusual.\n\texpensive tool around and it does the job. It is also the only\n\ttool with a redistributable demo, so if you do get the demo, post it\n\ton your local bulletin boards, FTP servers and Bitnet servers!\n\tDoes not include general info on RSI and ergonomics, but it does \n\thave the ability to step backward in the exercise sequence,\n\twhich is good for repeating the most helpful exercises.\n\n Tool: Typewatch (freeware), version 3.8 (October 1992)\n Available from:\n\tEmail to richardd@hoskyns.co.uk\n\tAnonymous ftp: soda.berkeley.edu:pub/typing-injury/typewatch.shar\n Platforms: UNIX (tested on SCO, SunOS, Mach; character and X Window mode)\n Description:\n\tThis is a shell script that runs in the background and warns you\n\tto stop typing, based on how long you have been continuously\n\ttyping. It does not provide exercises, but it does check\n\tthat you really do take a break, and tells you when you\n\tcan start typing again. \n\n\tTypewatch now tells you how many minutes you have been typing\n\ttoday, each time it warns you, which is useful so you\n\tknow how much you *really* type. It also logs information\n\tto a file that you can analyse or simply print out. \n\n\tThe warning message appears on your screen (in character mode),\n\tin a pop-up window (for X Windows), or as a Zephyr message\n\t(for those with Athena stuff). Tim Freeman <tsf@cs.cmu.edu> \n\thas put in a lot of bug fixes, extra features and support for \n\tX, Zephyr and Mach.\n\n\tNot formally supported, but email richardd@hoskyns.co.uk\n\t(for SCO, SunOS, character mode) or tsf@cs.cmu.edu (for Mach,\n\tX Window mode, Zephyr) if you have problems or want to give \n\tfeedback.\n\n Tool: Various calendar / batch queue programs\n Available from:\n\tVarious sources\n Platforms: Various\n Description:\n\tAny calendar/reminder program that warns you of an upcoming\n\tappointment can be turned into an ad hoc RSI management tool.\n\tOr, any batch queue submission program that lets you submit\n\ta program to run at a specific time to display a message to\n\tthe screen.\n\n\tUsing Windows as an example: create a Calendar file, and\n\tinclude this filename in your WIN.INI\'s \'load=\' line so\n\tyou get it on every startup of Windows. Suppose you\n\twant to have breaks every 30 minutes, starting from 9 am.\n\tPress F7 (Special Time...) to enter an appointment, enter\n\t9:30, hit Enter, and type some text in saying what the break\n\tis for. Then press F5 to set an alarm on this entry, and repeat \n\tfor the next appointment.\n\n\tBy using Windows Recorder, you can record the keystrokes\n\tthat set up breaks throughout a day in a .REC file. Put this\n\tfile on your \'run=\' line, as above, and you will then, with\n\ta single keypress, be able to set up your daily appointments\n\twith RSI exercises.\n\n\tThe above method should be adaptable to most calendar programs. \n\tAn example using batch jobs would be to submit a simple job\n\tthat runs at 9:30 am and warns you to take a break; this will\n\tdepend a lot on your operating system.\n\n\tWhile these approaches are not ideal, they are a good way of forcing \n\tyourself to take a break if you can\'t get hold of a suitable RSI \n\tmanagement tool. If you are techie enough you might want to\n\twrite a version of Typewatch (see above) for your operating\n\tsystem, using batch jobs or whatever fits best.\n\n Tool: Digital watches with count-down timers\n Available from:\n\tVarious sources, e.g. Casio BP-100.\n Description:\n\tMany digital watches have timers that count down from a settable\n\tnumber of minutes; they usually reset easily to that number, either\n\tmanually or automatically. \n\n\tWhile these are a very basic tool, they are very useful if you\n\tare writing, reading, driving, or doing anything away from\n\ta computer which can still cause or aggravate RSI. The great\n\tadvantage is that they remind you to break from whatever you\n\tare doing.\n\t\n Comments:\n\tMy own experience was that cutting down a lot on my typing led to\n\tmy writing a lot more, and still reading as much as ever, which\n\tactually aggravated the RSI in my right arm though the left\n\tarm improved. Getting a count-down timer watch has been\n\tvery useful on some occasions where I write a lot in a day.\n\n\tI have tried an old fashioned hour-glass type egg timer, but\n\tthese are not much good because they do not give an audible\n\twarning of the end of the time period!\n\n\nKEYBOARD REMAPPING TOOLS: these enable you to change your keyboard mapping\nso you can type one-handedly or with a different two-handed layout. \nOne-handed typing tools may help, but be VERY careful about how \nyou use them -- if you keep the same overall typing workload you\nare simply doubling your hand use for the hand that you use for typing,\nand may therefore make matters worse.\n\n Tool: hsh (public domain)\n Available from:\n\tAnonymous ftp: soda.berkeley.edu:pub/typing-injury/hsh.shar\n Platforms: UNIX (don\'t know which ones)\n Description:\n\tAllows one-handed typing and other general keyboard remappings.\n\tOnly works through tty\'s (so, you can use it with a terminal or\n\tan xterm, but not most X programs).\n\n Tool: Dvorak keyboard tools (various)\n Available from:\n\tAnonymous ftp: soda.berkeley.edu:pub/typing-injury/xdvorak.c\n\tAlso built into Windows 3.x. \n Description:\n\tThe Dvorak keyboard apparently uses a more rational layout\n\tthat involves more balanced hand use. It *may* help prevent\n\tRSI a bit, but you can also use it if you have RSI, since \n\tit will slow down your typing a *lot* :-) \n\n-- \nDan Wallach "One of the most attractive features of a Connection\ndwallach@cs.berkeley.edu Machine is the array of blinking lights on the faces\nOffice#: 510-642-9585 of its cabinet." -- CM Paris Ref. Manual, v6.0, p48.\n',
"From: renes@ecpdsharmony.cern.ch (Rene S. Dutch student)\nSubject: InterViews graphics package\nOrganization: CERN European Lab for Particle Physics\nLines: 7\n\n\nHello,\n\nI'm trying out the C++ graphics package InterViews. Besides the man pages\non the classes, I haven't got any documentation. Is there anything else\naround? Furthermore, can anyone send me a (small!) example program\nwhich shows how to use these classes together ? I would be very gratefull...\n",
'From: keith@cco.caltech.edu (Keith Allan Schneider)\nSubject: Re: Objective morality (was Re: <Political Atheists?)\nOrganization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena\nLines: 22\nNNTP-Posting-Host: punisher.caltech.edu\n\nlivesey@solntze.wpd.sgi.com (Jon Livesey) writes:\n\n>In another part of this thread, you\'ve been telling us that the\n>"goal" of a natural morality is what animals do to survive.\n\nThat\'s right. Humans have gone somewhat beyond this though. Perhaps\nour goal is one of self-actualization.\n\n>But suppose that your omniscient being told you that the long\n>term survival of humanity requires us to exterminate some \n>other species, either terrestrial or alien.\n\nNow you are letting an omniscient being give information to me. This\nwas not part of the original premise.\n\n>Does that make it moral to do so?\n\nWhich type of morality are you talking about? In a natural sense, it\nis not at all immoral to harm another species (as long as it doesn\'t\nadversely affect your own, I guess).\n\nkeith\n',
"From: bhjelle@carina.unm.edu ()\nSubject: Re: My New Diet --> IT WORKS GREAT !!!!\nOrganization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque\nLines: 27\nNNTP-Posting-Host: carina.unm.edu\n\n\nGordon Banks:\n\n>a lot to keep from going back to morbid obesity. I think all\n>of us cycle. One's success depends on how large the fluctuations\n>in the cycle are. Some people can cycle only 5 pounds. Unfortunately,\n>I'm not one of them.\n>\n>\nThis certainly describes my situation perfectly. For me there is\na constant dynamic between my tendency to eat, which appears to\nbe totally limitless, and the purely conscious desire to not\nput on too much weight. When I get too fat, I just diet/exercise\nmore (with varying degrees of success) to take off the\nextra weight. Usually I cycle within a 15 lb range, but\nsmaller and larger cycles occur as well. I'm always afraid\nthat this method will stop working someday, but usually\nI seem to be able to hold the weight gain in check.\nThis is one reason I have a hard time accepting the notion\nof some metabolic derangement associated with cycle dieting\n(that results in long-term weight gain). I have been cycle-\ndieting for at least 20 years without seeing such a change.\n\nI think a vigorous exercise program can go a long way toward\nkeeping the cycles smaller and the baseline weight low.\n\nBrian\n",
"From: GAnderson@Cmutual.com.au (Gavin Anderson)\nSubject: Help - Looking for a Medical Journal Article - Whiplash/Cervical Pain\nLines: 37\nOrganization: Colonial Mutual Life Australia\nX-Newsreader: FTPNuz (DOS) v1.0\nLines: 24\n\nHi,\nI am not sure where to post this message, please contact me if I'm way off\nthe mark.\nOn 19.3.93 my wife went to her General Practitioner (Doctor). He mentioned\nan article from a medical journal that is of great interest to us. He had\nread it in the previous three months but has been unable to find it again.\nThe article was about Whiplash Injury/Cervical Pain. It mentions the use of\na MRI (Magnetic Resonance Imagery) machine as a diagnostic tool and the work\nof a neurosurgeon who relived cervical pain.\nThis article is most likely in an Australian medical journal. I very much\nwant to obtain the name of the article, journal and author because the case\nmatches my wife. We would very much appreciate anyone's help in this matter\nvia email preferably.\n---------------------------------------------------------------------------\nGavin Anderson email: GAnderson@cmutual.com.au\nAnalyst/Programmer. phone: +61-3-607-6299\nColonial Mutual Life Aust. (ACN 004021809) fax : +61-3-283-1095\n-----------Some people never consciously discover their antipodes----------\n\n---------------------------------------------------------------------------\nGavin Anderson email: GAnderson@cmutual.com.au\nAnalyst/Programmer. phone: +61-3-607-6299\nColonial Mutual Life Aust. (ACN 004021809) fax : +61-3-283-1095\n---------------------------------------------------------------------------\n",
"Organization: University of Illinois at Chicago, academic Computer Center\nFrom: <U19250@uicvm.uic.edu>\nSubject: Re: Foreskin Troubles\nLines: 3\n\nThis is generally called phimosis..usually it is due to an inflammation, and ca\nn be retracted in the physician's offfice rather eaaasily. One should see a GP\n, or in complicated cases, a urologist.\n",
"From: debbie@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Debbie Forest)\nSubject: Re: Can men get yeast infections?\nOrganization: Computing Services Division, University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee\nLines: 18\nDistribution: na\nNNTP-Posting-Host: 129.89.7.4\n\nIn article <1993Apr14.184444.24065@galileo.cc.rochester.edu> jkis_ltd@uhura.cc.rochester.edu (Da' Beave) writes:\n>\n>Well folks, I currently have a yeast infection. I am male.\n>[...] your best bet (or at least your husband's)\n>is to treat and cure your infection before any intercourse. If you must, use\n>a condom. Also, consider other forms of sexual release (ie. handjobs) until\n>you are cured. \n\nThough I can't imagine WANTING to have intercourse during a full-blown\nyeast infection :-) chances of it being transmitted to the male are quite\nlow, especially if he's circumcised. But it can happen. \nAt one point I was getting recurrent yeast infections and the Dr suspected\nmy boyfriend might have gotten it from me and be reinfecting me. The\nprescription was interesting. For each day of the medication (a week) I \nwas to insert the medication, then to have intercourse. The resulting \naction would help the medicine be spread around in me better, and would \nsimultaneously treat him. \n\n",
'From: bruce@liv.ac.uk (Bruce Stephens)\nSubject: Re: Homosexuality issues in Christianity\nOrganization: Centre for Mathematical Software Research, Univ. Liverpool\nLines: 49\n\n>>>>> On 5 May 93 06:51:23 GMT, shellgate!llo@uu4.psi.com (Larry L. Overacker) said:\n\n> In article <Apr.30.03.11.27.1993.10101@geneva.rutgers.edu> FSSPR@acad3.alaska.edu (Hardcore Alaskan) writes:\n>>\n>>I hope that anyone who remembers seeing Rev. Troy Perry\'s\n>>"performance" at the 1987 March On Washington will see for themselves\n>>just how inconceivable it is to mix Christianity with homosexuality.\n\n> Whether or not Christianity and homosexuality are compatible is clearly\n> debatable, since it IS being debated. In my opnion, it is genuinely\n> destuctive to the cause of Christianity to use this sort of ad hominem\n> argument to oppose one\'s adversaries. It only serves to further drive\n> people away from Christianity because it projects and confirms the\n> frequently held opinion that Christians are unable to think critically\n> and intelligently. \n\nI agree entirely. Speaking as an atheist (heterosexual, for what it\'s\nworth), this is one of the least attractive parts of some varieties of\nChristianity. Although I\'m sure it\'s possible to argue theologically\nthat we shouldn\'t make analogies between discrimination on the basis\nof sex and race and discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation,\nmorally the case looks unanswerable (for those outside religion): the\nthree forms _are_ analogous; we shouldn\'t discriminate on the basis of\nsex, race or sexual orientation.\n\nI found the moderator\'s FAQs on the subject instructive, and recommend\neveryone to read them.\n\nThere seem to be three different levels of acceptance:\n\n1) Regard homosexual orientation as a sin (or evil, whatever)\n2) Regard homosexual behaviour as a sin, but accept orientation\n(though presumably orientation is unfortunate) and dislike people who\nindulge\n3) As 2, but "love the sinner"\n4) Accept homosexuality altogether.\n\nMy experience is that 3 is the most common attitude (I imagine 1 and 2\nare limited to a few fundamentalist sects).\n\nI suppose I can go along with 3, except that I have this feeling that\na 14--15 year old living in a community with this attitude, on\ndiscovering that they were more attracted to members of the same sex,\nwould not feel the love of the community, but would rather feel the\npressure not to exhibit their feelings. I\'m not saying that the\ncommunity (in particular the parents) would not love the child, but I\nsuspect the child would not feel loved.\n--\nBruce CMSR, University of Liverpool\n',
"From: ls8139@albnyvms.bitnet (larry silverberg)\nSubject: podiatry School info?\nReply-To: ls8139@albnyvms.bitnet\nOrganization: University of Albany, SUNY\nLines: 21\n\nHello,\n\nI am planning on attending Podiatry School next year.\n\nI have narrowed my choices to the Pennsylvania College of Podiatric\nMedicine, in Philadelphia, or the California College of Podiatric\nMedicine in San Francisco. \n\nIf anyone has any information or oppinions about these two schools, please\ntell me. I am having a hard time deciding which one to attend, and must\nmake a decision very soon. \n\nthank you, Larry\n\n~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~\nLive From New York, It's SATURDAY NIGHT...\n\nTonight's special guest:\nLawrence Silverberg from The State University of New York @ Albany\naka:ls8139@gemini.Albany.edu\n~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~\n",
"From: mmatusev@radford.vak12ed.edu (Melissa N. Matusevich)\nSubject: Re: HELP ME INJECT...\nOrganization: Virginia's Public Education Network (Radford)\nLines: 5\n\nAccording to a previous poster, one should seek a doctor's\nassistance for injections. But what about Sumatriptin [sp?]?\nDoesn't one have to inject oneself immediately upon the onset\nof a migraine?\n\n",
'From: jim.zisfein@factory.com (Jim Zisfein) \nSubject: Re: Migraines and scans\nDistribution: world\nOrganization: Invention Factory\'s BBS - New York City, NY - 212-274-8298v.32bis\nReply-To: jim.zisfein@factory.com (Jim Zisfein) \nLines: 37\n\nDN> From: nyeda@cnsvax.uwec.edu (David Nye)\nDN> A neurology\nDN> consultation is cheaper than a scan.\n\nAnd also better, because a neurologist can make a differential\ndiagnosis between migraine, tension-type headache, cluster, benign\nintracranial hypertension, chronic paroxysmal hemicrania, and other\nheadache syndromes that all appear normal on a scan. A neurologist\ncan also recommend a course of treatment that is appropriate to the\ndiagnosis.\n\nDN> >>Also, since many people are convinced they have brain tumors or other\nDN> >>serious pathology, it may be cheaper to just get a CT scan then have\nDN> >>them come into the ER every few weeks.\nDN> And easier than taking the time to reassure the patient, right?\nDN> Personally, I don\'t think this can ever be justified.\n\nSigh. It may never be justifiable, but I sometimes do it. Even\nafter I try to show thoroughness with a detailed history, neurologic\nexamination, and discussion with the patient about my diagnosis,\nsalted with lots of reassurance, patients still ask "why can\'t you\norder a scan, so we can be absolutely sure?" Aunt Millie often gets\ninto the conversation, as in "they ignored Aunt Millie\'s headaches\nfor years", and then she died of a brain tumor, aneurysm, or\nwhatever. If you can get away without ever ordering imaging for a\npatient with an obviously benign headache syndrome, I\'d like to hear\nwhat your magic is.\n\nEvery once in a while I am able to bypass imaging by getting an EEG.\nMind you, I don\'t think EEG is terribly sensitive for brain tumor,\nbut the patient feels like "something is being done" (as if the\nhours I spent talking with and examining the patient were\n"nothing"), the EEG has no ionizing radiation, it\'s *much* cheaper\nthan CT or MRI, and the EEG brings in some money to my department.\n---\n . SLMR 2.1 . E-mail: jim.zisfein@factory.com (Jim Zisfein)\n \n',
'From: geb@cs.pitt.edu (Gordon Banks)\nSubject: Re: Fingernail "moons"\nReply-To: geb@cs.pitt.edu (Gordon Banks)\nOrganization: Univ. of Pittsburgh Computer Science\nLines: 16\n\nIn article <733196190.AA00076@calcom.socal.com> Daniel.Prince@f129.n102.z1.calcom.socal.com (Daniel Prince) writes:\n\n>I only have lunulas on my thumbs. Is there any medical \n>significance to that finding? Thank you in advance for all \n>replies.\n>\n\nTry peeling the skin back at the base of your other fingernails\n(not too hard, now, don\'t want to hurt yourself). You\'ll find\nnice little lunulas there if you can peel it back enough. \n\n-- \n----------------------------------------------------------------------------\nGordon Banks N3JXP | "Skepticism is the chastity of the intellect, and\ngeb@cadre.dsl.pitt.edu | it is shameful to surrender it too soon." \n----------------------------------------------------------------------------\n',
'From: sheffner@encore.com (Steve Heffner)\nSubject: Hernia\nOrganization: Encore Computer Corporation\nNntp-Posting-Host: condor.encore.com\nLines: 20\n\nA bit more than a year ago, a hernia in my right groin was\ndiscovered. It had produced a dull pain in that area. The hernia\nwas repaired using the least intrusive (orthoscopic?) method and a\n"plug and patch".\n\nThe doctor considered the procedure a success.\n\nA few months later the same pain returned. The doctor said that\nhe could find nothing wrong in the area of the hernia repair.\n\nNow the pain occurs more often. My GP couldn\'t identify any\nspecific problem. The surgen who performed the original procedure\nnow says that yes there is a "new" hernia in the same area and he\nsaid that he has to cut into the area for the repair this time.\n\nMy question to the net: Is there a nonintrusive method to\ndetermine if in fact there is a hernia or if the pain is from\nsomething else?\n\nSteve Heffner\n',
"From: saz@hook.corp.mot.com (Scott Zabolotzky)\nSubject: .GIF to .BMP\nOrganization: Motorola, Inc.\nDistribution: usa\nNntp-Posting-Host: 129.188.122.160\nLines: 11\n\nI'm not sure if this is the correct place to ask this question. If not,\nplease forgive me and point me in the right direction.\n\nDoes anybody know of a program that converts .GIF files to .BMP files\nand if so, where can I ftp it from? Any help would be greatly \nappreciated.\n\nPlease respond via e-mail as I do not read this group very often.\n\nThanks...Scott\n\n",
'Subject: Re: Looking for Tseng VESA drivers\nFrom: t890449@patan.fi.upm.es ()\nOrganization: /usr/local/lib/organization\nNntp-Posting-Host: patan.fi.upm.es\nLines: 10\n\nHi, this is my first msg to the Net (actually the 3rd copy of it, dam*ed VI!!).\n\n Look for the new VPIC6.0, it comes with updated VESA 1.2 drivers for almost every known card. The VESA level is 1.2, and my Tseng4000 24-bit has a nice affair with the driver. \n\n Hope it is useful!!\n\n\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\tBye\n\n\n',
'From: cptully@med.unc.edu (Christopher P. Tully,Pathology,62699)\nSubject: Re: TIFF: philosophical significance of 42\nNntp-Posting-Host: helix.med.unc.edu\nReply-To: cptully@med.unc.edu\nOrganization: UNC-CH School of Medicine\nLines: 40\n\nIn article 8HC@mentor.cc.purdue.edu, ab@nova.cc.purdue.edu (Allen B) writes:\n>In article <1993Apr10.160929.696@galki.toppoint.de> ulrich@galki.toppoint.de \n>writes:\n>> According to the TIFF 5.0 Specification, the TIFF "version number"\n>> (bytes 2-3) 42 has been chosen for its "deep philosophical \n>> significance".\n>> Last week, I read the Hitchhikers Guide To The Galaxy,\n>> Is this actually how they picked the number 42?\n>\n>I\'m sure it is, and I am not amused. Every time I read that part of the\n>TIFF spec, it infuriates me- and I\'m none too happy about the\n>complexity of the spec anyway- because I think their "arbitrary but\n>carefully chosen number" is neither. Additionally, I find their\n>choice of 4 bytes to begin a file with meaningless of themselves- why\n>not just use the letters "TIFF"?\n>\n>(And no, I don\'t think they should have bothered to support both word\n>orders either- and I\'ve found that many TIFF readers actually\n>don\'t.)\n>\n>ab\n\nWhy so up tight? FOr that matter, TIFF6 is out now, so why not gripe\nabout its problems? Also, if its so important to you, volunteer to\nhelp define or critique the spec.\n\nFinally, a little numerology: 42 is 24 backwards, and TIFF is a 24 bit\nimage format...\n\nChris\n---\n*********************************************************************\nChristopher P. Tully\t\t\t\tcptully@med.unc.edu\nUniv. of North Carolina - Chapel Hill\nCB# 7525\t\t\t\t\t(919) 966-2699\nChapel Hill, NC 27599\n*********************************************************************\nI get paid for my opinions, but that doesn\'t mean that UNC or anybody\n else agrees with them.\n\n',
'From: jaeger@buphy.bu.edu (Gregg Jaeger)\nSubject: Re: Yet more Rushdie [Re: ISLAMIC LAW]\nOrganization: Boston University Physics Department\nLines: 14\n\nIn article <1qi3l5$jkj@fido.asd.sgi.com> livesey@solntze.wpd.sgi.com (Jon Livesey) writes:\n\n>I hope an Islamic Bank is something other than BCCI, which\n>ripped off so many small depositors among the Muslim\n>community in the Uk and elsewhere.\n\n>jon.\n\nGrow up, childish propagandist.\n\n\n\n\nGregg\n',
'From: wdm@world.std.com (Wayne Michael)\nSubject: Adobe Photo Shop type software for Unix/X/Motif platforms?\nSummary: Searching for Adobe Photo Shop type software for Unix/X/Motif platforms\nKeywords: Image Enhancement\nOrganization: n/a\nLines: 19\n\nHello,\n\n I have been searching for a quality image enhancement and\n manipulation package for Unix/X/Motif platforms that is comparable\n to Adobe Photo Shop for the Mac.\n\n I have not been able to find any, and would appreciate any\n information about such products you could provide.\n\n I would be particularly interested in software that runs on HP or\n Sun workstations, and does not require special add-in hardware, but\n would also be interested in other solutions.\n\n\nThank You.\nWayne\n-- \nWayne Michael\nwdm@world.std.com\n',
'From: sandy@nmr1.pt.cyanamid.COM (Sandy Silverman)\nSubject: Re: Barbecued foods and health risk\nIn-Reply-To: rousseaua@immunex.com\'s message of 19 Apr 93 13:02:13 PST\nNntp-Posting-Host: nmr1.pt.cyanamid.com\nOrganization: American Cyanamid Company\n\t<1quq1m$e8j@terminator.rs.itd.umich.edu>\n\t<1993Apr19.130213.69@immunex.com>\nLines: 8\n\nHeat shock proteins are those whose expression is induced in response to\nelevated temperature. Some are also made when organisms are subjected to\nother stress conditions, e.g. high salt. They have no obvious connection\nto what happens when you burn proteins.\n--\nSanford Silverman >Opinions expressed here are my own<\nAmerican Cyanamid \nsandy@pt.cyanamid.com, silvermans@pt.cyanamid.com "Yeast is Best"\n',
"From: u9126619@athmail1.causeway.qub.ac.uk\nSubject: Could anyone answer this question???\nOrganization: Free University of Berlin, Germany\nLines: 41\nCc: u9126619@athmail1.causeway.qub.ac.uk\n\n\n\tI've heard it said that the accounts we have of Christs life and\nministry in the Gospels were actually written many years after the event.\n(About 40 years or so). Is this correct?? If so, why the big time delay??\nI know all scripture is inspired of God, so the time of writing is I suppose\nun-important, but I still can't help be curious!\n\n---------------------------------------------------\nIvan Thomas Barr \n\nContact me at u9126619@athmail1.causeway.qub.ac.uk\n\n[The Gospels aren't dated, so we can only guess. Luke's prolog is\nabout the only thing we have from the author describing his process.\nThe prolog sounds like Luke is from the next generation, and had to do\nsome investigating. There are traditions passed down verbally that\nsay a few things about the composition of the Gospels. There are\ndebates about how reliable these traditions are. They certainly don't\nhave the status of Scripture, yet scholars tend to take some of them\nseriously. One suggests that Mark was based on Peter's sermons, and\nwas written to preserve them when Peter had died or way about to die.\nOne tradition about Matthew suggests that a collection of Jesus words\nmay have been made earlier than the current Gospels. \n\nIn the ancient world, it was much more common to rely on verbal\ntransmission of information. I think many people would have preferred\nto hear about Jesus directly from someone who had known him, and maybe\neven from someone who studied directly under such a person, rather\nthan from a book. Thus I suspect that the Gospels are largely from a\nperiod when these people were beginning to die. Scholars generally do\nthink there was some written material earlier, which was probably used\nas sources for the existing Gospels.\n\nEstablishing the dates is a complex and technical business. I have to\nconfess that I'm not sure how much reliance I'd put on the methods\nused. But it's common to think that Mark was written first, around 64\nAD., and that all of the Gospels were written by the end of the\nCentury. A few people vary this by a decade or so one way or the\nother.\n\n--clh]\n",
"From: pes@hutcs.cs.hut.fi (Pekka Siltanen)\nSubject: Re: detecting double points in bezier curves\nNntp-Posting-Host: hutcs.cs.hut.fi\nOrganization: Helsinki University of Technology, Finland\nLines: 26\n\nIn article <1993Apr19.234409.18303@kpc.com> jbulf@balsa.Berkeley.EDU (Jeff Bulf) writes:\n>In article <ia522B1w165w@oeinck.waterland.wlink.nl>, ferdinan@oeinck.waterland.wlink.nl (Ferdinand Oeinck) writes:\n>|> I'm looking for any information on detecting and/or calculating a double\n>|> point and/or cusp in a bezier curve.\n>|> \n>|> An algorithm, literature reference or mail about this is very appreciated,\n>\n>There was a very useful article in one of the 1989 issues of\n>Transactions On Graphics. I believe Maureen Stone was one of\n>the authors. Sorry not to be more specific. I don't have the\n>reference here with me.\n\n\nStone, DeRose: Geometric characterization of parametric cubic curves.\nACM Trans. Graphics 8 (3) (1989) 147 - 163.\n\n\nManocha, Canny: Detecting cusps and inflection points in curves.\nComputer aided geometric design 9 (1992) 1-24.\n\nPekka Siltanen\n\n\n\n\n\n",
"From: jodfishe@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (joseph dale fisher)\nSubject: Re: prayers and advice requested on family problem\nOrganization: Indiana University\nLines: 34\n\nJulie, it is a really trying situation that you have described. My\nbrother was living with someone like that and things were almost as bad\n(although he left after a considerably shorter amount of time due to\nother problems with the relationship). Anyway, the best thing to do\nwould be to get everyone in the same room together (optimally in a room\nwith nothing breakable), lock the door behind you, throw the key out\nunderneath the door (just as far as the longest hand can reach. You\nwould like to get out after the conclusion, I would imagine), and hash\nthings out. More than likely, there will be screaming, crying, and\npossibly hitting (unless of course someone decided to bring some rope to\ntie people down). Some of the best strategies in keeping things calmer\nwould include:\n have each individual own their own statements (ie, I feel that this\nrelationship is hurting everyone involved because.... or I really don't\nunderstand where you're coming from.)\n reinforce statements by paraphrasing, etc. (ie, So you think that we\ndid this because of...? Well, let me just say that the reason for this\nwas ....)\n don't accuse each other (It was your fault that ... happened!)\n find a common ground about SOMETHING (Lampshades really are\ndecorational and functional at the same time.)\n Guaranteed, in a situation like this, there is going to be some\ngunnysacking (re-hashing topics which were assumed resolved, but were\ntruly not and someone feels someone else is to blame). However, this\nshould be kept to a minimum and simply ask for forgiveness or apologize\nabout each situation WITHOUT holding a smoldering grudge. \n\nThe relationship really can work. It's just a matter of keeping things\nsmooth and even. It's sort of like making a peace treaty between\nwarring factions: you can't give one side everything; there must be a\ncompromise. Breaks can be taken, but communication between everyone\ninvolved must continue if the relationships here are to survive.\n\nJoe Fisher\n",
'From: jr0930@eve.albany.edu (REGAN JAMES P)\nSubject: Pascal-Fractals\nOrganization: State University of New York at Albany\n Thanks in advance\nLines: 5\n\n-- \n ||||||||||| \t\t \t ||||||||||| \n_|||||||||||_______________________|||||||||||_ jr0930@eve.albany.edu\n-|||||||||||-----------------------|||||||||||- jr0930@Albnyvms.bitnet\n ||||||||||| GO HEAVY OR GO HOME |||||||||||\n',
'From: geb@cs.pitt.edu (Gordon Banks)\nSubject: Neurasthenia\nReply-To: geb@cs.pitt.edu (Gordon Banks)\nOrganization: Univ. of Pittsburgh Computer Science\nLines: 15\n\nIn article <1993Apr21.174553.812@spdcc.com> dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer) writes:\n\n>responds well, if you\'re not otherwise immunocompromised. Noring\'s\n>anal-retentive idee fixe on having a fungal infection in his sinuses\n>is not even in the same category here, nor are these walking neurasthenics\n>who are convinced they have "candida" from reading a quack book.\n\nSpeaking of which, has anyone else been impressed with how much the \ndescriptions of neurasthenia published a century ago sound like CFS?\n\n-- \n----------------------------------------------------------------------------\nGordon Banks N3JXP | "Skepticism is the chastity of the intellect, and\ngeb@cadre.dsl.pitt.edu | it is shameful to surrender it too soon." \n----------------------------------------------------------------------------\n',
'From: tiang@midway.ecn.uoknor.edu (Tiang)\nSubject: Re: A Book I found... graphics\nNntp-Posting-Host: midway.ecn.uoknor.edu\nOrganization: Engineering Computer Network, University of Oklahoma, Norman, OK, USA\nLines: 35\n\ncovlir@crockett1c.its.rpi.edu (Locks) writes:\nHello,\n\n>I happened to spot an excellent book in a bookstore about 4 days ago,\n>though!!!!!! It is in C++ and assembly. It teaches you the assembly\n>as it goes along --so if you\'re like me and have no assembler experience,\n>don\'t worry. It has almost everything that I wanted to know and has\n>-----WORKING----- code.\n\n>--Rod Covlin--\n\n\tI just bought a copy. I can\'t disagree that it is a very good\nbook. But unfortunately I was looking for the same graphics feature\ndescribed in this book but _NOT_ in 640x480x16 or 320x200x256 mode. It\nis easy to accomodate all the pixel "descriptor" (or color attributes)\nin those modes into A0000-AFFFFF, but not in 640x480x256(which is what\nI am interested in). I haven\'t finish the book but I affraid the\nauthor didn\'t talk much about this mode(or other SVGA modes). If\nanyone out there know any good book dealing with fast SVGA graphics\nmanupulation(scrolling, repainting, all other good stuff..) please\nsend me mail. Programming guide to SVGA card is also welcome.\n\n\tThanks in advance.\n\n\n \n************************************************************************\n* Tiang T. Foo *\n*\t\t tiang@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu \t\t *\n************************************************************************ \n-- \n************************************************************************\n* Tiang T. Foo *\n*\t\t tiang@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu \t\t *\n************************************************************************ \n',
'From: maridai@comm.mot.com (Marida Ignacio)\nSubject: Refusing Divine Peace and Alive Prayer? (was Re: Question about Mary)\nOrganization: trunking_fixed\nLines: 147\n\nIt\'s like refusing \'God\'s kingdom come\'.\n\nIn one of Jesus\' revelation in this century, "...same thing as in\nthe old days. People refuse to believe my messengers. Even when\nI was alive here on earth, they refuse Me. What more when I am just\ntalking through somebody else?" (paraphrased).\n\nWith all the knowledge believers accumulated, He would think that\nwe would be \'enlightened\' enough to detect which ones are \n\'authentic and divine\' as opposed to \'evil or man-made\'.\n\nThese signs, these miracles, are you afraid that they are not from God?\nThat these are the signs we should not open our hearts and mind to for thinking\n they are evil?\nWell, is faith in God evil?\nIs true peace evil? Is true love that is divine and pure evil? \nWhy can\'t someone accept that God can do what He wants in fulfillment of His\n generous love and Jesus\' never ending forgiveness to those who turn back to\n Him for salvation?\nWhy are we refusing God\'s messenger of this truth? The mother to all who are\n in Christ?\nWhat brings us these:\n fears of being shamed by what others will think or say about us?\n which, in contrary, could be pleasing to God?\n fears of being humbled?\n fears of being judged as wrong (wrt mainstream standard of what is right)?\nWhy can\'t we tolerate non-believers\' mockery or ridicule of us for the\n sake of peace, love and obedience to God? The humbling lessons left to us\n by martyrs and saints?\nWe\'d rather engage in never-ending bickering and disproof of each other\'s\n opinion - looking at each other\'s mistakes - for the sake of arguments,\n instead of having communion in one body with Christ.\nWhat makes us go blind to the truth that God is All Powerful and that He can\n not be binded by what people wrote and have written about Him in all ages?\nWhy is our faith in God limited? By all the words and literature we muster?\nWhat prevents us from going *beyond* being saved and extend God\'s rich love\n to others who are not?\n\nWhy are our eyes not wide open to see that He continuously sees our faith, hope\n and love which glorify Him and so He gives us indications of His \n acknowledgements with signs/miracles (ordinary/common or divinely inspired) \n everywhere? Isn\'t that like an atheist/agnostic\'s view that all these\n are just ordinary here on earth and not caused by anything supernatural?\n\nWhy then does the Holy Mother comes back to remind us:\n "We must really __accept that prayer__ changes the course of things and that\n with prayers __even wars can be prevented__."\nbut then she continues:\n "You often have an egotistic attitude. Dear children, in these days you\n have prayed very much, __but your hands have remained empty__."\nWhy hesitate in proclaiming what needs to be done:\n "prayer, conversion, peace, penance, fasting, the Holy Mass, living life\n as what the Gospel brings."?\nWhy not do so? How? To the world?\nTo this, the Mother says:\n "Start in your family. Be a good example. Live the Word."\nWhy worry if it is going to be of good use to many?\nOur Holy Mother says:\n "The fruits, __leave them to the Lord__, do not worry about anything or \n anyone but entrust yourself to the Lord."\n\nAlthough the Holy Mother does not insist because:\n "You are free; I bow before the freedom which God gives you."\nbut she follows this with:\n "You are surprised because I say to you: Decide for God and yet, see how\n you have lived this day."\nWhy does she constantly conveys:\n "Take this life toward God in the way as to __experience__ the Lord Himself\n in your __behavior__ and __not only__ when you pray" or one time when we \n decide that we are saved, or talk/write about God, etc.\nThe Holy Mother warns:\n "Satan (the serpent) is always trying to dissuade you to turn you away from\n my peace plan and prayer." (Rev 12:17, the dragon became angry with the woman\n and went off to wage war against the rest of her offsprings, those who keep\n God\'s commandments, and bear witness to Jesus.)\n\nDo you have fear or hate for God\'s current messenger of true peace, love and\n our motherly protector from the anti-Christ?\nThe one who is being apprehensive of communism, wars, famine and other evils\n that the serpent brings upon us? \nThis obedient and blessed new Eve?\nThe mother who warns us so we can be prepared and be strong against Satan?\nHaven\'t there been renewed faith, hope, love, peace and obedience wherever\n this messenger has shared her blessings and graces that God has given her\n in good purpose?\nWhy do we choose to be blind?\nWhy fear the truth that God has been giving us a chance and sharing Christ\'s\n ever-forgetting forgiveness to us through the obedient mother?\nThe mother who has been consecrated the task __to reverse__ the disobedient\n harm and example done by the ancient Eve.\nShe has been preparing the new Eden with her Immaculate Heart.\nThe new Eden as sanctuary (the womb) for the next coming and judgement of the \n righteous by our Lord, Jesus Christ; when The Lamb marries His bride.\nShouldn\'t we give her a hand in her exhaustive job of preparing us for the\n second coming of her Son as she has been conceived without sin to bear\n the Son of God in her womb?\nWhy fear true peace, love and renewed faith and obedience to God that Mary\n faithfully brings to God\'s children? She has been protecting the flock\n (the rest of the offsprings) from the greedy dragon so as to present more \n righteous members for her Son\'s coming.\nNot all apparitions and miracles that resulted from them are worthy\n of belief. With prayer and guidance from the Holy Spirit and, of course,\n approval of our Church authorities, we should be aware of the true and\n divinely inspired ones; specifically, the ones which aligns with the\n Scripture.\n \n\nAlso, our Lady reminds us of recommendation of __silence__ in our prayers:\n "If you speak unceasingly in your prayers, how will you be able to hear\n God? Allow Him room to answer you, to speak to you." \n\nShe encourages us (with motherly nurturing) to continue in exuberant \nfaith, hope and love to Jesus, constantly. NOT with mere emotions, \nbut with deep, constant obedience to Jesus, her Beloved Son and\nacknowledgement of our need to have Him as part of our lives.\n\nLet\'s not wait to the last minute to renew our faith and the life\nthat God wants us to live; when there won\'t be enough time or when\nit will be late.\n \nNowadays, Mary says, \n"Pray, pray, pray for peace...reconciliation, my children."\nHave peace within yourself first before you can promote peace to\nothers. For without peace, you can not fully accept my Son."\n \n\nAnd you think she\'s just an ordinary lady. Not to me. She\'s\nour good Mother/messenger from God and she is so nice enough to\nshare God\'s kingdom to us through her Son and experience it.\n\nWith Mary, we are assured that The Lamb always succeeds.\n\n-----\nNote: All enclosed in quotes are from "Latest News of Medjugorje"\n Number 10, June, 1991 by Fr. Rene\' Laurentin.\n\n-----\n\nO, new Mother of Eden, Most Pure\nPreparing the sanctuary for true christians\nCleansing us with peace for God\'s kingdom come\nBring us to your loving, protective and obedient Church\nThat we may belong in one Body to your Son, Jesus Christ, our Lord\nAnd not go astray from His perfect completeness\nPray that we ourselves pray with the Holy Spirit guiding us\nSo that we may help you in strength to conquer the enemies of your Son\n while you prepare us for Him with your Immaculate Heart.\n',
'From: SITUNAYA@IBM3090.BHAM.AC.UK\nSubject: test....(sorry)\nOrganization: The University of Birmingham, United Kingdom\nLines: 1\nNNTP-Posting-Host: ibm3090.bham.ac.uk\n\n==============================================================================\n',
'From: jbrown@batman.bmd.trw.com\nSubject: Re: Gulf War and Peace-niks\nLines: 67\n\nIn article <1993Apr20.062328.19776@bmerh85.bnr.ca>, \ndgraham@bmers30.bnr.ca (Douglas Graham) writes:\n\n[...]\n> \n> Wait a minute. You said *never* play a Chamberlain. Since the US\n> *is* playing Chamberlain as far as East Timor is concerned, wouldn\'t\n> that lead you to think that your argument is irrelevant and had nothing\n> to do with the Gulf War? Actually, I rather like your idea. Perhaps\n> the rest of the world should have bombed (or maybe missiled) Washington\n> when the US invaded Nicaragua, Grenada, Panama, Vietnam, Mexico, Hawaii,\n> or any number of other places.\n\nWait a minute, Doug. I know you are better informed than that. The US \nhas never invaded Nicaragua (as far as I know). We liberated Grenada \nfrom the Cubans\tto protect US citizens there and to prevent the completion \nof a strategic air strip. Panama we invaded, true (twice this century). \nVietnam? We were invited in by the government of S. Vietnam. (I guess \nwe "invaded" Saudi Arabia during the Gulf War, eh?) Mexico? We have \ninvaded Mexico 2 or 3 times, once this century, but there were no missiles \nfor anyone to shoot over here at that time. Hawaii? We liberated it from \nSpain.\n\nSo if you mean by the word "invaded" some sort of military action where\nwe cross someone\'s border, you are right 5 out of 6. But normally\n"invaded" carries a connotation of attacking an autonomous nation.\n(If some nation "invades" the U.S. Virgin Islands, would they be\ninvading the Virgin Islands or the U.S.?) So from this point of\nview, your score falls to 2 out of 6 (Mexico, Panama).\n\n[...]\n> \n> What\'s a "peace-nik"? Is that somebody who *doesn\'t* masturbate\n> over "Guns\'n\'Ammo" or what? Is it supposed to be bad to be a peace-nik?\n\nNo, it\'s someone who believes in "peace-at-all-costs". In other words,\na person who would have supported giving Hitler not only Austria and\nCzechoslakia, but Poland too if it could have averted the War. And one\nwho would allow Hitler to wipe all *all* Jews, slavs, and political \ndissidents in areas he controlled as long as he left the rest of us alone.\n\n"Is it supposed to be bad to be a peace-nik," you ask? Well, it depends\non what your values are. If you value life over liberty, peace over\nfreedom, then I guess not. But if liberty and freedom mean more to you\nthan life itself; if you\'d rather die fighting for liberty than live\nunder a tyrant\'s heel, then yes, it\'s "bad" to be a peace-nik.\n\nThe problem with most peace-niks it they consider those of us who are\nnot like them to be "bad" and "unconscionable". I would not have any\nargument or problem with a peace-nik if they held to their ideals and\nstayed out of all conflicts or issues, especially those dealing with \nthe national defense. But no, they are not willing to allow us to\nlegitimately hold a different point-of-view. They militate and \nmany times resort to violence all in the name of peace. (What rank\nhypocrisy!) All to stop we "warmongers" who are willing to stand up \nand defend our freedoms against tyrants, and who realize that to do\nso requires a strong national defense.\n\nTime to get off the soapbox now. :)\n\n[...]\n> --\n> Doug Graham dgraham@bnr.ca My opinions are my own.\n\nRegards,\n\nJim B.\n',
'From: paulson@tab00.larc.nasa.gov (Sharon Paulson)\nSubject: Re: food-related seizures?\nOrganization: NASA Langley Research Center, Hampton VA, USA\nLines: 48\n\t<C5uq9B.LrJ@toads.pgh.pa.us> <C5x3L0.3r8@athena.cs.uga.edu>\nNNTP-Posting-Host: cmb00.larc.nasa.gov\nIn-reply-to: mcovingt@aisun3.ai.uga.edu\'s message of Fri, 23 Apr 1993 03:41:24 GMT\n\nIn article <C5x3L0.3r8@athena.cs.uga.edu> mcovingt@aisun3.ai.uga.edu (Michael Covington) writes:\n\n Newsgroups: sci.med\n Path: news.larc.nasa.gov!saimiri.primate.wisc.edu!sdd.hp.com!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!swrinde!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!emory!athena!aisun3.ai.uga.edu!mcovingt\n From: mcovingt@aisun3.ai.uga.edu (Michael Covington)\n Sender: usenet@athena.cs.uga.edu\n Nntp-Posting-Host: aisun3.ai.uga.edu\n Organization: AI Programs, University of Georgia, Athens\n References: <PAULSON.93Apr19081647@cmb00.larc.nasa.gov> <116305@bu.edu> <C5uq9B.LrJ@toads.pgh.pa.us>\n Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1993 03:41:24 GMT\n Lines: 27\n\n In article <C5uq9B.LrJ@toads.pgh.pa.us> geb@cs.pitt.edu (Gordon Banks) writes:\n >In article <116305@bu.edu> dozonoff@bu.edu (david ozonoff) writes:\n >>\n >>Many of these cereals are corn-based. After your post I looked in the\n >>literature and located two articles that implicated corn (contains\n >>tryptophan) and seizures. The idea is that corn in the diet might\n >>potentiate an already existing or latent seizure disorder, not cause it.\n >>Check to see if the two Kellog cereals are corn based. I\'d be interested.\n >\n >Years ago when I was an intern, an obese young woman was brought into\n >the ER comatose after having been reported to have grand mal seizures\n >why attending a "corn festival". We pumped her stomach and obtained\n >what seemed like a couple of liters of corn, much of it intact kernals. \n >After a few hours she woke up and was fine. I was tempted to sign her out as\n >"acute corn intoxication."\n >----------------------------------------------------------------------------\n >Gordon Banks N3JXP | "Skepticism is the chastity of the intellect, and\n\n How about contaminants on the corn, e.g. aflatoxin???\n\n\n\n -- \n :- Michael A. Covington, Associate Research Scientist : *****\n :- Artificial Intelligence Programs mcovingt@ai.uga.edu : *********\n :- The University of Georgia phone 706 542-0358 : * * *\n :- Athens, Georgia 30602-7415 U.S.A. amateur radio N4TMI : ** *** ** <><\n\nWhat is aflatoxin?\n\nSharon\n--\nSharon Paulson s.s.paulson@larc.nasa.gov\nNASA Langley Research Center\nBldg. 1192D, Mailstop 156 Work: (804) 864-2241\nHampton, Virginia. 23681 Home: (804) 596-2362\n',
'From: williamt@athena.Eng.Sun.COM (William Turnbow)\nSubject: Re: Discussions on alt.psychoactives\nOrganization: Sun Microsystems Inc., Mountain View, CA\nLines: 39\nReply-To: williamt@athena.Eng.sun.com (William Turnbow)\nNNTP-Posting-Host: athena\n\nIn article <1r4bhsINNhaf@hp-col.col.hp.com> billc@col.hp.com (Bill Claussen) writes:\n>\n>This group was originally a takeoff from sci.med. The reason for\n>the formation of this group was to discuss prescription psychoactive\n>drugs....such as ...\n>\n>Oh well, obviously, no one really cares.\n---\n\n\tThen let me ask you for a "workable" solution. We have a name\nhere that implies certain things to many people. Rather than trying\nto educate each and every person that comes to the group -- is there\nsome "name" that would imply what this group was originally\nintended for? \n\n\tMy dad was a lawyer -- as such I grew up with being a stickler\nfor "meaning". In my "reality", psychoactives *technically* could \nrange from caffeine to datura to the drugs you mention to more\nstandard recreational drugs. In practice I had hoped to see it\nlimited to those that were above some psychoactive level -- like\nsome of the drugs you mention, but also possibly including *some*\nrecreational drugs -- but with conversation limited to their psychoactive \neffects -- the recent query about "bong water", I thought was a bit\noff topic -- so I just hit "k".\n\n\tBut back to the original question -- what is a workable solution --\nwhat is a workable name that would imply the topic you with to\ndiscuss? It sounds like there should be a alt.smartdrugs, or something\nsimilar -- I don\'t feel psychoactives would generally be used to\ndescribe alot of those drugs. There is a big difference between a\ndrug that if taken in "certain doses, over a period of days may have\na psychoactive effect in some people", vs. many of the drugs in\nPIHKAH which *are* psychoactive.\n\n\nwm\n-- \n\n:: If pro-choice means choice after conception, does this apply to men too? ::\n',
"From: omar@godzilla.osf.org (Mark Marino)\nSubject: WANTED: Playmation Info\nOrganization: Open Software Foundation\nLines: 21\n\nHi Folks,\n\n Does anyone have a copy of Playmation they'd be willing to sell me. I'd \nlove to try it out, but not for the retail $$$. If you have moved onto \nsomething bigger (3DS) or better (Imagine), I'd love to buy your table scraps.\n\n If noone is selling, can anyone recommend a place to buy Playmation \nmail-order for cheap? \n\n Thanks in advance,\n\n Mark\n\n\n\n-- \n ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- \n| |\n| Mark Marino | omar@osf.org | uunet!osf!omar |\n| Open Software Foundation | 11 Cambridge Center | Cambridge, MA 02142 |\n|_____________________________________________________________________________|\n",
"From: erikb@idt.unit.no (Erik Brenn)\nSubject: graphics formats\nReply-To: erikb@idt.unit.no (Erik Brenn)\nOrganization: Norwegian Institue of Technology\nLines: 14\n\nI'm currently looking for information about different graphics\nformats, especially PPM, PCX BMP and perhaps GIF.\nDoes anyone know if there exist any files at some site\nthat describes these formats ???\n\nThanks !\n\n\n-- \n ~~~ \n (o o) | Erik Brenn ,email: erikb@idt.unit.no\n ( O ) oOOO | Faculty of Computer Science & Telematics\n \\\\_// / / | The Norwegian Institute of Technology, Trondheim\n-oOOO--------------------| Not to make sense, just cents ! \n",
"From: rap@coconut.cis.ufl.edu (Ryan Porter)\nSubject: Re: DMORPH\nArticle-I.D.: snoopy.1pqlhnINN8k1\nOrganization: Univ. of Florida CIS Dept.\nLines: 34\nNNTP-Posting-Host: coconut.cis.ufl.edu\n\nIn article <1993Apr3.183303.6442@usl.edu> jna8182@ucs.usl.edu (Armstrong Jay N) writes:\n>Can someone please tell me where I can ftp DTA or DMORPH?\n\nDMorf (Dave's Morph, I think is what it means) and DTax (Dave's \nTGA Assembler) are available in the MSDOS_UPLOADS directory\non the wuarchive.\n\nThey are arjed and bundled with their respective xmemory versions,\ndmorfx.exe and dtax.exe, you can also find a version of aaplay.exe\nthere, with which you can view files you create with dta.exe or\ndtax.exe.\n\nI downloaded the whole bunch last week and have been morphing \naway the afternoons since. The programmes are all a bit buggy and\ndefinitely not-ready-to-spread-to-the-masses, but they are very\nwell written. \n\nThe interface is frustrating at first, but it gets easy once you\nfigure out the tricks.\n\nI have noticed that dmorfx will crash horribly if you try to morph\nwithout using the splines option. Not sure why, since I don't have\nthe source. I think it was written for TP 6.0.\n\nIf anyone else comes up with any other hints on getting the thing \nto work right, tell me; it took me several hours the first time\njust to figure out that if I just used the durned splines then \nit would work...\n\n>JNA\n>jna8182@usl.edu\n\n-Ryan\nrap@cis.ufl.edu\n",
'From: kewe@bskewe.atr.bso.nl (Cornelis Wessels)\nSubject: Point within a polygon \nOrganization: MATHEMAGIC\nLines: 71\n\n\nIn article <1993Apr14.102007.20664@uk03.bull.co.uk> scrowe@hemel.bull.co.uk writes:\n\n > \n > I am looking for an algorithm to determine if a given point is bound by a \n > polygon. Does anyone have any such code or a reference to book containing\n > information on the subject ?\n > \n > Regards\n > \n > Simon\n > \n/* +-------------------------------------------------------------------+\n | |\n | Function : PuntBinnenPolygoon |\n | |\n +-------------------------------------------------------------------+\n | |\n | Auteur : Cornelis Wessels |\n | |\n | Datum : 11-01-1993 |\n | |\n | Omschrijving: Bepaalt of de aangeboden VECTOR2D p binnen of op de |\n | rand van het polygoon P valt. |\n | |\n +-------------------------------------------------------------------+\n | |\n | Wijzigingen : - |\n | |\n +-------------------------------------------------------------------+ */\n\nCLIBSTATUS PuntBinnenPolygoon ( POLYGOON *P, VECTOR2D *p )\n {\n VECTOR2D o, v, w;\n INDEX aantal_snijpunten, N, n;\n\n aantal_snijpunten = 0;\n N = GeefPolygoonLengte(P);\n GeefPolygoonRandpunt ( P, N, &o );\n\n for ( n=1; n<=N; n++ )\n {\n GeefPolygoonRandpunt ( P, n, &v );\n\n if ( o.x >= p->x && v.x < p->x ||\n\t o.x < p->x && v.x >= p->x )\n {\n w.x = p->x;\n InterpoleerLineair ( &o, &v, &w );\n\n if ( w.x == p->x && w.y == p->y )\n\treturn(CLIBSUCCES);\n else if ( w.y > p->y )\n\taantal_snijpunten++;\n }\n\n KopieerVector2d ( &v, &o );\n }\n\n if ( aantal_snijpunten%2 == 0 )\n return(CLIBERBUITEN);\n else\n return(CLIBSUCCES);\n }\n\nCornelis Wessels\nKrommenoord 14\n3079 ZT ROTTERDAM\nThe Netherlands\n+31 10 4826394\nkewe@bskewe.atr.bso.nl\n',
'From: jaeger@buphy.bu.edu (Gregg Jaeger)\nSubject: Re: Yet more Rushdie [Re: ISLAMIC LAW]\nOrganization: Boston University Physics Department\nLines: 50\n\nIn article <1993Apr10.123858.25059@bradford.ac.uk> L.Newnham@bradford.ac.uk (Leonard Newnham) writes:\n\n>Gregg Jaeger (jaeger@buphy.bu.edu) wrote:\n\n>> Khomenei was a jerk and so were plenty of \n>>British "leaders", so what? \n\n>>THE QUR\'AN is the basis of judgement. Khomenei was clearly a heretic\n>>by the standards of the Qur\'an. End of story.\n\n>Could you be a little more specific as to exactly why Khomanei was a\n>heretic and a jerk as judged by the Koran. I have no liking for the\n>guy, but as far as I know he has done nothing contrary to the teachings\n>of the Koran, or at least so I\'m told by several Iranian research\n>students that I share an office with.\n\n>It is easy and convenient for you to denounce him. But I have the \n>feeling that your views are not as clear cut and widely accepted as you\n>suggest.\n\nI have made this clear elsewhere but will do so again. Khomeini put a \nprice on the head of someone in another country, this makes him a jerk\nas well as an international outlaw. Khomeini advocates the view that\nthere was a series of twelve Islamic leaders (the Twelve Imams) who\nare free of error or sin. This makes him a heretic. In the Qur\'an \nMuhammad is chastised for error directly by God; the Qur\'an says that\nMuhammad is the greatest example of proper Islamic behavior; thus\nno muslim is free from error. \n\n\n>As usual there seems to be almost as many Islamic viewpoints as there\n>are Muslims. \n\nPerhaps it seems so to you, but this is hardly the case. There is\nwidespread agreement about matters of Islam. There certainly are\nmany viewpoints on issues which are not particularly Islamic in\nand of themselves, but this is so for any large group of people\nunder the same name. \n\n>It all comes back to the Koran being so imprecise in its wording.\n\nThe Qur\'an is not particularly imprecise in wording, though it is true\nthat several interpretations are possible in the interpretations of\nmany words. However, as an entire text the Qur\'an makes its meanings\nprecise enough for intelligent people free from power lust to come\nto agreement about them. \n\n\n\nGregg\n',
"From: jmetz@austin.ibm.com ()\nSubject: Re: Twitching eye?\nOriginator: jmetz@jmetz.austin.ibm.com\nOrganization: IBM Austin\nLines: 4\n\n\n I had this one time. I attributed it to a lack of sleep since it disappeared\nafter a few nights of good zzz's.\n\n",
"From: amann@iam.unibe.ch (Stephan Amann)\nSubject: Re: more on radiosity\nReply-To: amann@iam.unibe.ch\nOrganization: University of Berne, Institute of Computer Science and Applied Mathematics, Special Interest Group Computer Graphics\nLines: 80\n\nIn article 66319@yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU, xz775327@longs.LANCE.ColoState.Edu (Xia Zhao) writes:\n>\n>\n>In article <1993Apr19.131239.11670@aragorn.unibe.ch>, you write:\n>|>\n>|>\n>|> Let's be serious... I'm working on a radiosity package, written in C++.\n>|> I would like to make it public domain. I'll announce it in c.g. the minute\n>|> I finished it.\n>|>\n>|> That were the good news. The bad news: It'll take another 2 months (at least)\n>|> to finish it.\n>\n>\n> Are you using the traditional radiosity method, progressive refinement, or\n> something else in your package?\n>\n\nMy package is based on several articles about non-standard radiosity and\nsome unpublished methods.\n\nThe main articles are:\n\n- Cohen, Chen, Wallace, Greenberg : \n A Progressive Refinement Approach to fast Radiosity Image Generation\n Computer Graphics (SIGGRAPH), V. 22(No. 4), pp 75-84, August 1988\n\n- Silion, Puech\n A General Two-Pass Method Integrating Specular and Diffuse Reflection\n Computer Graphics (SIGGRAPH), V23(No. 3), pp335-344, July 1989 \n\n> If you need to project patches on the hemi-cube surfaces, what technique are\n> you using? Do you have hardware to facilitate the projection?\n>\n\nI do not use hemi-cubes. I have no special hardware (SUN SPARCstation).\n\n>\n>|>\n>|> In the meantime you may have a look at the file\n>|> Radiosity_code.tar.Z\n>|> located at\n>|> compute1.cc.ncsu.edu\n>\n>\n> What are the guest username and password for this ftp site?\n>\n\nUse anonymous as username and your e-mail address as password.\n\n>\n>|>\n>|> (there are some other locations; have a look at archie to get the nearest)\n>|>\n>|> Hope that'll help.\n>|>\n>|> Yours\n>|>\n>|> Stephan\n>|>\n>\n>\n> Thanks, Stephan.\n>\n>\n> Josephine\n\n\nStephan.\n\n\n----------------------------------------------------------------------------\n\n Stephan Amann SIG Computer Graphics, University of Berne, Switzerland\n amann@iam.unibe.ch\n\t Tel +41 31 65 46 79\t Fax +41 31 65 39 65\n\n Projects: Radiosity, Raytracing, Computer Graphics\n\n----------------------------------------------------------------------------\n",
'From: caralv@caralv.auto-trol.com (Carol Alvin)\nSubject: Re: The arrogance of Christians\nLines: 37\n\nvbv@r2d2.eeap.cwru.edu (Virgilio (Dean) B. Velasco Jr.) writes:\n\n> \tI just thought I\'d share some words that I received in a letter \n> from Moody Bible Institute a couple of months ago. The words are by\n> James M. Stowell, the president of MBI.\n> \n> \t"The other day, I was at the dry cleaner and the radio was playing.\n> It caught my attention because a talk show guest was criticizing evangelical\n> Christians, saying we believe in absolutes and think we are the only ones\n> who know what the absolutes are.\n> \n> \t"He missed the point.\n\nNo, IMO, Mr. Stowell missed the point.\n\n> \t"We affirm the absolutes of Scripture, not because we are arrogant\n> moralists, but because we believe in God who is truth, who has revealed His\n> truth in His Word, and therefore we hold as precious the strategic importance\n> of those absolutes."\n\nMr. Stowell seems to have jumped rather strangely from truth to absolutes.\nI don\'t see how that necessarily follows. \n\nAre all truths also absolutes?\nIs all of scripture truths (and therefore absolutes)?\n\nIf the answer to either of these questions is no, then perhaps you can \nexplain to me how you determine which parts of Scripture are truths, and\nwhich truths are absolutes. And, who is qualified to make these \ndeterminations? There is hardly consensus, even in evangelical \nChristianity (not to mention the rest of Christianity) regarding \nBiblical interpretation.\n\nI find Mr. Stowell\'s statement terribly simple-minded.\n\nCarol Alvin\ncaralv@auto-trol.com\n',
'From: zyeh@caspian.usc.edu (zhenghao yeh)\nSubject: Re: Fast wireframe graphics\nOrganization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA\nLines: 14\nDistribution: usa\nNNTP-Posting-Host: caspian.usc.edu\n\n\nIn article <C5tK4u.C6t@cs.columbia.edu>, ykim@cs.columbia.edu (Yong Su Kim) writes:\n|> \n|> I am working on a program to display 3d wireframe models with the user\n|> being able to arbitrarily change any of the viewing parameters. Also,\n|> the wireframe objects are also going to have dynamic attributes so\n|> that they can move around while the user is "exploring" the wireframe\n|> world.\n\n\tWhy don\'t you consider PHIGS in X or PEX lib?\n\n\tYeh\n\tUSC\n\n',
"From: I3150101@dbstu1.rz.tu-bs.de (Benedikt Rosenau)\nSubject: Re: The Inimitable Rushdie\nOrganization: Technical University Braunschweig, Germany\nLines: 11\n\nIn article <1993Apr16.211458.1@eagle.wesleyan.edu>\nkmagnacca@eagle.wesleyan.edu writes:\n \n(deletion)\n>Nope, Germany has extremely restrictive citizenship laws. The\n>ethnic Germans who have lived in Russia for over 100 years\n>automatically become citizens if they move to Germany, but the\n>Turks who are now in their third generation in Germany can't.\n \nThat's wrong. They can.\n Benedikt\n",
"From: srlnjal@grace.cri.nz\nSubject: CorelDraw Bitmap to SCODAL\nOrganization: Industrial Research Ltd., New Zealand.\nLines: 10\nNNTP-Posting-Host: grv.grace.cri.nz\n\n\nDoes anyone know of software that will allow\nyou to convert CorelDraw (.CDR) files\ncontaining bitmaps to SCODAL, as this is the\nonly format our bureau's filmrecorder recognises.\n\nJeff Lyall\nInst.Geo.Nuc.Sci.Ltd\nLower Hutt New Zealand\n\n",
'From: jodfishe@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (joseph dale fisher)\nSubject: Re: Christ references in OT\nOrganization: Indiana University\nLines: 11\n\nAdam, I just finished a study on this, not only looking at the\nprophecies themselves, but where they were fulfilled. While going only\nthrough the OT, I found 508 references. After starting to show their\nfulfillment, I found out that I had missed some, so needless to say I\ncannot post them here. However, the study I did I intend to publish (I\nam in the process of organizing and showing the fulfillments, then I\nwill be ready to write and send it to a publisher). With any luck\n(and/or free time) I should have it finally done sometime around\nSeptember (I hope).\n\nJoe Fisher\n',
"Organization: Penn State University\nFrom: <JER114@psuvm.psu.edu>\nSubject: scanned grey to color equations?\nLines: 7\n\nA while back someone had several equations which could be used for changing 3 f\niltered grey scale images into one true color image. This is possible because\nit's the same theory used by most color scanners. I am not looking for the obv\nious solution which is to buy a color scanner but what I do need is those equat\nions becasue I am starting to write software which will automate the conversion\n process. I would really appreciate it if someone would repost the 3 equations\n/3 unknowns. Thanks for the help!!!\n",
"From: rdd@uts.ipp-garching.mpg.de (Reinhard Drube)\nSubject: Re: Postscript drawing prog\nOrganization: Rechenzentrum der Max-Planck-Gesellschaft in Garching\nLines: 17\n\nIn article <C5ECnn.7qo@mentor.cc.purdue.edu>, nish@cv4.chem.purdue.edu (Nishantha I.) writes:\n|> \tCould somebody let me know of a drawing utility that can be\n|> used to manipulate postscript files.I am specifically interested in\n|> drawing lines, boxes and the sort on Postscript contour plots.\n|> \tI have tried xfig and I am impressed by it's features. However\n|> it is of no use since I cannot use postscript files as input for the\n|> programme.Is there a utility that converts postscript to xfig format?\n|> \tAny help would be greatly appreciated.\n|> \t\t\t\tNishantha\nI think you are too optimistic! PostScript is a very big language and\nso the fig format can not be able to be an interpreter of ANY arbitrary\nps code. The only program I know to manipulate PostScript files is\nIslandDraw.\nI for myself use xfig and include the PostScript files (converted to\nepsi format). Small changes then are possible (erasing some letters,\nadding text and so on).\nReinhard\n",
'From: jeffp@vetmed.wsu.edu (Jeff Parke)\nSubject: Re: Lyme vaccine\nOrganization: College of Veterinary Medicine WSU\nX-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL9]\nLines: 45\n\nkathleen richards (kilty@ucrengr) wrote:\n> My nearly-13 year old Pomeranian had a nasty reaction to this vaccination.\n> ... Suffice it to say, we will not\n> vaccinate her for Lyme disease again. She\'s been camping through some 6\n> states and has backpacked with us as well and we are used to watching for ticks\n> and dealing with them and we simply won\'t take her to really active Lyme\n> disease areas....\n\nNot to drag this out anymore, but....\n\nMany veterinarians feel that Lyme Disease in dogs is so easy to treat that\nin an endemic area, they often just give the appropriate antibiotics to dogs\npresenting with lameness, swollen joints, +/- fever.\n\nA recent paper (March 1993) has finally established that Lyme disease in dogs\ncan be reproduced in a controlled experimentaly setting. This has been\nan ellusive matter for researchers, and is one of the fundamental requirements\nfor many to acknowledge an agent as being causitive of a particular disease.\nUp to now, only the vaccine manufacturer has been able to "prove" that\nthe disease exists.\n\nThis paper is noteworthy in two other regards:\n\n1) None of the animals they infected were treated in any way. The dogs\nhad episodes of lameness during a 6-8 week period which occurred 2-5\nmonths after exposure. After this period, none showed any further\nclinical signs up to the 17 month observation period of the study. So\nthese are proven, clinically sick Lyme patients showing spontaneous\nrecovery without the benefit of drug treatment. Of course, observations\nlonger than 17 months will be necessary to be sure the disease doesn\'t\nhave the same chronicity that some see in humans.\n\n2) The addendum to the paper calls into question the techniques used by the\nvaccine manufacturer to validate the vaccine. Of course, they want\nthe world to use the model they developed in order to test vaccine\nefficacy.\n\nAnyway, maybe we will see some independent, scientifically sound evaluations\nof this vaccine in the next year or so.\n\n--\nJeff Parke <jeffp@pgavin1.vetmed.wsu.edu>\nalso: jeffp@WSUVM1.bitnet AOL: JeffParke\nWashington State University College of Veterinary Medicine class of 1994\nPullman, WA 99164-7012\n',
"From: tdawson@engin.umich.edu (Chris Herringshaw)\nSubject: WingCommanderII Graphics\nOrganization: University of Michigan Engineering, Ann Arbor\nLines: 8\nDistribution: world\nNNTP-Posting-Host: antithesis.engin.umich.edu\n\n I was wondering if anyone knows where I can get more information about\nthe graphics in the WingCommander series, and the RealSpace system they use.\nI think it's really awesome, and wouldn't mind being able to use similar\nfeatures in programs. Thanks in advance.\n\n\nDaemon\n\n",
'From: euclid@mrcnext.cso.uiuc.edu (Euclid K.)\nSubject: Re: GETTING AIDS FROM ACUPUNCTURE NEEDLES\nArticle-I.D.: news.C5wGEs.K6u\nOrganization: University of Illinois at Urbana\nLines: 19\n\nmatthews@Oswego.EDU (Harry Matthews) writes:\n\n>I had electrical pulse nerve testing done a while back. The needles were taken\n>from a dirty drawer in an instrument cart and were most certainly NOT\n>sterile or even clean for that matter. More than likely they were fresh\n>from the previous patient. I WAS concerned, but I kept my mouth shut. I\n>probably should have raised hell!\n\tCould you describe in more detail the above procedure? I\'ve never\nheard about it.\n\tAnd yes, if they pierced you with the needles you probably should have\nprotested. \n\neuclid\n \n--\nEuclid K. standard disclaimers apply\n"It is a bit ironic that we need the wave model [of light] to understand the\npropagation of light only through that part of the system where it leaves no\ntrace." --Hudson & Nelson (_University_Physics_)\n',
'From: kempmp@phoenix.oulu.fi (Petri Pihko)\nSubject: Re: Atheist\'s views on Christianity (was: Re: "Accepting Jeesus in your heart...")\nOrganization: University of Oulu, Finland\nLines: 183\n\nFirst, I thank collectively all people who have given good answers\nto my questions. In my follow-up to Jason Smith\'s posting, I will\naddress some issues that have caused misunderstanding:\n\nJason Smith (jasons@atlastele.com) wrote:\n\n> In article <Apr.19.05.13.48.1993.29266@athos.rutgers.edu> kempmp@phoenix.oulu.fi (Petri Pihko) writes:\n\n> I also concede that I was doubly remiss, as I asserted "No reasonable\n> alternative exists", an entirely subjective statement on my part (and one\n> that could be invalidated, given time and further discovery by the\n> scientist). I also understand that a proving a theory does not necessarily\n> specify that "this is how it happened", but proposes a likely description of\n> the phenomena in question. Am I mistaken with this understanding?\n\nYes, to some degree. There was an excellent discussion in sci.skeptic\non the nature of scientific work two weeks ago, I hope it did not\nescape your notice. \n\nThe correct word is \'likely\'. There is no way to be sure our models and\ntheories are absolutely correct. Theories are backed up by evidence,\nbut not proved - no theory can be \'true\' in a mathematical sense.\n\nHowever, theories are not mere descriptions or rationalisations of\nphenomena. It is extremely important to test whether theories can\n_predict_ something new or not yet observed. All successful theories\nscience has come up with have passed this test, including the Big\nBang theory of cosmic evolution, the theory of natural selection etc.\nIt does not mean they _must_ be correct, but they are not mere\n\'best fits\' for the data. \n\n> = But if you claim that there must be\n> = an answer to "how" did the universe (our spacetime) emerge from \n> = "nothing", science has some good candidates for an answer.\n\n> All of which require something we Christians readily admit to: ``Faith\'\'.\n\nWell, yes, if you want to _believe_ in them. This is not what science\nrequires - take a good look at the theory and the evidence, see if\nthe theory has made any successful predictions, and use your reason.\nDisbelievers are not punished. \n\n> The fact that there are several candidates belies that *none* are conclusive. \n> With out conclusive evidence, we are left with faith.\n\nThis is what puzzles me - why do we need to have faith in _anything_?\nMy fellow atheists would call me a weak atheist - someone who is\nunable to believe, ie, fails to entertain any belief in God. \n\nYes, I know that one can\'t believe without God\'s help; Luther makes\nthis quite clear in his letter to Erasmus. I\'m afraid this does not\nchange my situation. \n\n> [ a couple of paragraphs deleted. Summary: we ask "Why does the\n> universe exist" ]\n\n\n> = I think this question should actually be split into two parts, namely\n> = \n> = 1) Why is there existence? Why anything exists?\n> = \n> = and\n> = \n> = 2) How did the universe emerge from nothing?\n\n(deletions)\n\n> = The question "why anything exists" can be countered by\n> = demanding answer to a question "why there is nothing in nothingness,\n> = or in non-existence". Actually, both questions turn out to be\n> = devoid of meaning. Things that exist do, and things that don\'t exist\n> = don\'t exist. Tautology at its best.\n\n> Carefully examine the original question, and then the "counter-question". \n> The first asks "Why", while the second is a request for definition. \n\nNo, it is not, although it does look like one. This is a true dichotomy,\neither something exists, or nothing exists. If nothing exists, nobody\nwould ask why. If something exists, it is possible to ask why, but\nactually no existing being could give an answer. \n\nImagine, for a moment, that the nobodies in non-existence could also\nask: "Why nothing exists?" This is equivalent to my counter-question,\n"why nothing exists in nothingness". \n\nNow, "why anything exists" is equivalent to "why something exists in\nsomethingness". _This_ is what I meant with my tautology, my apologies\nfor the poor wording in my previous post.\n\n> I might add, the worldview of "Things that exist do, and things that\n> don\'t...don\'t" is as grounded in the realm of the non-falsifiable,\n> as does the theist\'s belief in God. It is based on the assumption\n> that there is *not* a reason for being, something as ultimately\n> (un)supportable as the position of there being a reason. Its very\n> foundation exists in the same soil as that of one who claims there *is* a\n> reason.\n\nI do indeed think there probably _is_ no reason for being, or existence,\nin general, for reasons I stated above. However, they will still\nleave open the question "why this, and not that", and this is where\ntheistic explanations come in.\n\nScience cannot give reasons for any _particular_ human being\'s existence.\n\n> We come to this. Either "I am, therefore I am.", or "I am for a reason."\n\nThis is a deep philosophical question - is determinism true, or not?\nAlso, is God deterministic or not? I tend to think this question has\nno meaning in His case. \n\nIf I am for a reason, I\'ve yet failed to see what it would be. \nFrom our perspective, it looks like \'I\' exist for truly random\nreasons. I just rolled two dice - why did I get 6 and 1? How can\nI believe there is any better reason for my existence?\n\n> If the former is a satisfactory answer, then you are done, for you are\n> satisfied, and need not a doctor. If the latter, your search is just\n> beginning. \n\nYes, I am satisfied with this reason, until I find something better.\nMy 15 years of Christianity were of no help in this respect, I have\nto admit, but I am patient.\n\n> = Another answer is that God is the _source_ of all existence.\n> = This sounds much better, but I am tempted to ask: Does God\n> = Himself exist, then? If God is the source of His own existence,\n> = it can only mean that He has, in terms of human time, always\n> = existed. But this is not the same as the source of all existence.\n\n> This does not preclude His existence. It only seeks to identify His\n> *qualities* (implying He exists to *have* qualities, BTW).\n\nNo, it doesn\'t, but I think an existing God cannot know why He exists,\nfor an answer to this question is not knowable. Of course, this\nshould not be any obstacle to belief in His existence.\n\n> I also have discovered science is an inadequate tool to answer "why". It\n> appears that M. Pihko agrees (as we shall see). But because a tool is\n> inadequate to answer a question does not preclude the question. Asserting\n> that \'why\' is an invalid question does not provide an answer. \n\nIt is impossible to know unknowable things. However, the question \n"why do I exist, in particular" is _not_ an invalid question - this\nis not what I said. But from our perspective, it is impossible to\ntell, and I can\'t just believe in any given explanation instead of\nanother, especially since I found I was deluding myself. \n\n> My apologies. I was using why as "why did this come to be". Why did\n> pre-existence become existence. Why did pre-spacetime become spacetime.\n\nI think "pre-existence" is an oxymoron. There is no time \'outside\' of\nthis spacetime (except in some other universe), and from that \nperspective, our universe never was. It exists only for those who\nare inside it. \n\n> But we come to the admission that science fails to answer "Why?". Because\n> it can\'t be answered in the realm of modern science, does that make the\n> question invalid?\n\nNo. The validity of the question has to be discussed separately; I think\nphilosophy is of great help here. What can be known, and what is not\nknowable?\n\n> M. Pihko does present a good point though. We may need to ask "What do I \n> as an individual Christian base my faith on?" Will it be shaken by the\n> production of evidence that shatters our "sacred cows" or will we seek to\n> understand if a new discovery truly disagrees with what God *said* (and\n> continues to say) in his Word?\n\nThis is a very good question. In trying to answer this, and numerous\nother questions that bothered me, I finally found nothing to base\nmy faith on. \n\nI think it would be honest if we all asked ourselves, "why do I believe"\nor "why I don\'t believe". \n\nPetri\n\n--\n ___. .\'*\'\'.* Petri Pihko kem-pmp@ Mathematics is the Truth.\n!___.\'* \'.\'*\' \' . Pihatie 15 C finou.oulu.fi Physics is the Rule of\n \' *\' .* \'* SF-90650 OULU kempmp@ the Game.\n *\' * .* FINLAND phoenix.oulu.fi -> Chemistry is The Game.\n',
'From: keith@cco.caltech.edu (Keith Allan Schneider)\nSubject: Re: <<Pompous ass\nOrganization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena\nLines: 57\nNNTP-Posting-Host: punisher.caltech.edu\n\nAndrew Newell <TAN102@psuvm.psu.edu> writes:\n\n>>I think you should support your first claim, that people will simply\n>>harass me no matter what, as I doubt this is true. I think *some* of the\n>>theists will be at a loss, and that is enough reason for me.\n>Because "IN GOD WE TRUST" is a motto on the coins, and the coins\n>are a representation of the government, christians are given\n>ammunition here to slander atheists as unpatriotic.\n\nSo, we should ban the ammunition? Why not get rid of the guns?\n\n>And yes, I have heard this used in conversation with christians.\n>Sure, they may fall back on other things, but this is one they\n>should not have available to use.\n\nIt is worse than others? The National Anthem? Should it be changed too?\nGod Bless America? The list goes on...\n\n>Imagine if the next year\'s set of coins were labeled with\n>the motto: "GOD IS DEAD".\n>Certainly, such a statement on U.S. coins would offend almost\n>every christian. And I\'d be tempted to rub that motto in the\n>face of christians when debunking their standard motto slinging\n>gets boring.\n\nThen you\'d be no better than the people you despise.\n\n>Any statement printed on an item that represents\n>the government is an endorsement by the government.\n\nOh?\n\n>The coin motto is an endorsement of trusting in god.\n\nAn endorsement, or an acknowledgement? I think gods are things that people\nare proud of, but I don\'t think the motto encourages belief.\n\n>I don\'t particularly feel like trusting in god,\n>so the government IS putting me down with every\n>coin it prints.\n\nIs it?\n\n[...]\n>For the motto to be legitimate, it would have to read:\n> "In god, gods, or godlessness we trust"\n\nWould you approve of such a motto?\n\n>Whether the motto was intended to be anti-atheist or not,\n>it turns up as an open invitation to use as an anti-atheist tool.\n\nAnd removing the tool will solve the problem?\n\nOr will it increase the problem?\n\nkeith\n',
'From: brian@quake.sylmar.ca.us (Brian K. Yoder)\nSubject: Re: Is MSG sensitivity superstition?\nOrganization: Quake Public Access, San Fernando Valley, CA (818)362-6092\nLines: 92\n\nHave you ever met a chemist? A food industry businessman? You must\npersonally know a lot of them for you to be able to be so certain that they\nare evil mosters whose only goal is to inflict as much pain and disease\nas possible into the general public. Gimme a break.\n \nIn article <1993Apr15.215826.3401@rtsg.mot.com> lundby@rtsg.mot.com (Walter F. L\nundby) writes:\n>\n>>>Is there such a thing as MSG (monosodium glutamate) sensitivity?\n>>>Superstition. Anybody here have experience to the contrary?\n\n person who is very sensitive to msg and whose wife and kids are\n>too, I WANT TO KNOW WHY THE FOOD INDUSTRY WANTS TO PUT MSG IN FOOD!!!\n \nBecause it makes the food TASTE BETTER! Why does it put salt in food?\nSame reason.\n\n>I REALLY DON\'T UNDERSTAND!!!\n\nObviously.\n \n>Somebody in the industry GIVE ME SOME REASONS WHY!\n\n>IS IT AN INDUSTRIAL BYPRODUCT THAT NEEDS GETTING GET RID OF?\n \nOf course not! (Although I would think that a person like you would be a\nbig fan of such recycling if that were the case).\n\n>IS IT TO COVER UP THE FACT THAT THE RECIPES ARE NOT VERY GOOD OR THE \n>FOOD IS POOR QUALITY?\n \nOn occasion that\'s probably the case, but in general the idea is that MSG\nimproves the flavor of certain foods.\n \n>DO SOME OF YOU GET A SADISTIC PLEASURE OUT OF MAKING SOME OF US SICK?\n \nNo.\n \n>DO THE TASTE TESTERS HAVE SOME DEFECT IN THEIR FLAVOR SENSORS (MOUTH etc...)\n> THAT MSG CORRECTS?\n \nNo.\n \n>I REALLY DON\'T UNDERSTAND!!!\n \nObviously.\n \n>ALSO ... Nitrosiamines (sp)\n \nAs I recall, these are natural by-products of heating up certain foods.\nThey don\'t "put it in there".\n \n \nhave a number of criteria in choosing how to process food. They want to\nmake it taste good, look good, sell for a good price, etc. The fact that they\nuse it tells me that THEY think that it contributes to those goals they are\ninterested in. One of those goals is NOT "making people sick". Such a goal\nwoud quickly drive them out of business and for no benefit.\n \n>I think\n>1) outlaw the use of these substances without warning labels as\n>large as those on cig. packages.\n \nWarning of what? In California there is a law requiring that ANYTHING which\ncontains a carcinogen be labeled. That includes every gasline pump, most\nfoods, and even money cleaning machines (because Nickel is a mild carcinogen).\nThe result is that now nobody pays any attention to ANY of the warnings.\n \n>2) Require 30% of comparable products on the market to be free of these\n>substances and state that they are free of MSG, DYES, NITROSIAMINES and\n>SULFITES on the package.\n \nWhy? What if not 30% of people wanted to buy this ugly, rotten, not-as-tasty\nfood? I guess it will just be wasted, huh? How terribly efficient.\n \n>3) While at it outlaw yellow dye #5. For that matter why dye food?\n \nBecause it makes food look better. I LIKE food that looks good.\nIf vitamin companies want to do that it is fine, but who are you to\ntell THEM how to make vitamins? Who are you to tell ME whether I should\nbuy flavored vitamins for my kids (who can\'t swallow the conventional ones\nwhole).\n \n>KEEP FOOD FOOD! QUIT PUTTING IN JUNK!\n \nHow do you define "junk"? Is putting "salt" in food bad? What about\nPepper? What about alcohol as a preservative? What about sealing jars\nwith wax? What about vinegar? You seem to think that "chemicals" are\nsomehow different than "food". The fact is that all foods are 100% chemicals.\nYou are just expressing an irrational prejudice against food processing.\n \n--Brian\n',
"From: keith@cco.caltech.edu (Keith Allan Schneider)\nSubject: Re: Keith Schneider - Stealth Poster?\nOrganization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena\nLines: 19\nNNTP-Posting-Host: lloyd.caltech.edu\n\nmam@mouse.cmhnet.org (Mike McAngus) writes:\n\n>Let me see if I understand what you are saying. In order to talk \n>knowledgeably about religion, Atheists must first have been so immersed \n>in a religion that only the rare individual could have left. \n\nNo, you don't understand. I said that I don't think people can discuss\nthe subjective merits of religion objectively. This should be obvious.\nPeople here have said that everyone would be better off without religion,\nbut this almost certainly isn't true.\n\n>>But really, are you threatened by the motto, or by the people that use it?\n>The motto is a tool. Let's try to take away the tool.\n\nBut, guns and axes are tools, both of which have been used for murder.\nShould both be taken away? That is to say, I don't think motto misuse\nwarrants its removal. At least not in this case.\n\nkeith\n",
'From: news@cbnewsk.att.com\nSubject: Re: When are two people married in God\'s eyes?\nOrganization: AT&T Bell Labs\nLines: 23\n\nIn article <Apr.16.23.15.03.1993.1820@geneva.rutgers.edu> mcovingt@aisun3.ai.uga.edu (Michael Covington) writes:\n>In article <Apr.14.03.07.21.1993.5402@athos.rutgers.edu> randerso@acad1.sahs.uth.tmc.edu (Robert Anderson) writes:\n>>I would like to get your opinions on this: when exactly does an engaged\n>>couple become "married" in God\'s eyes? \n>\n>Not if they are unwilling to go through a public marriage ceremony,\n>nor if they say they are willing but have not actually done so.\n>\n>Let\'s distinguish _real_ logistical problems (like being stranded on a\n>desert island) from _excuses_ (such as waiting for so-and-so\'s brother\n>to come back from being in the army so he can be in the ceremony)...\n\nI disagree. People marry each other. When they commit fully to each\nother as life partners, they are married. The ceremony may assist in\nemphasizing the depth of such a commitment, but is of itself nothing.\nGod knows our hearts. He knows when two have committed themselves to\nbe one, he knows the fears and delusions we have that keep us from fully\ngiving ourselves to another. The way I see it, you\'d have to be living\ntogether in a marriage for somewhere between 10 and 100 years before anyone\nknew if a marriage really existed, but God knows. I don\'t think God keeps\na scorebook.\n\nJoe Moore\n',
'From: francis@ircam.fr (Joseph Francis)\nSubject: Re: Krillean Photography\nOrganization: Inst. de Recherche et Coordination Acoustique/Musique, Paris\nLines: 50\n\nIn article <1993Apr19.205615.1013@unlv.edu> todamhyp@charles.unlv.edu (Brian M. Huey) writes:\n>I think that\'s the correct spelling..\n\nCrullerian.\n\n>\tI am looking for any information/supplies that will allow\n>do-it-yourselfers to take Krillean Pictures. I\'m thinking\n>that education suppliers for schools might have a appartus for\n>sale, but I don\'t know any of the companies. Any info is greatly\n>appreciated.\n\nCrullerian photography isn\'t educational, except in a purely satiric\nsense.\n\n>\tIn case you don\'t know, Krillean Photography, to the best of my\n>knowledge, involves taking pictures of an (most of the time) organic\n>object between charged plates. The picture will show energy patterns\n>or spikes around the object photographed, and depending on what type\n>of object it is, the spikes or energy patterns will vary. One might\n>extrapolate here and say that this proves that every object within\n>the universe (as we know it) has its own energy signature.\n\nCrullerian photography involves putting donuts between grease-covered\nhot metal plates while illuminating them with a Krypton Stroboscope.\nThrough a unique iteration involving the 4th-dimensional projection of\na torus through the semi-stochastic interactions of hot monomolecular\nlipid layers covering the metal plates (the best metal is iron since\nit repels Vampires and Succubi) the donuts start developing flutes,\nand within moments actually become poly-crenellated hot greasy\nbreadtubes. Some people believe that food is the way to a man\'s heart,\nbut most psychics agree that there is nothing like hot Crullers for\nbreakfast; the chemical composition of crullers is a mystery, some\nthought evidence of Charles Fort\'s channeling in Stevie Wonder\'s\nproduction of "The Secret Life of Plants" when played backwards in the\ntheatre of unnaturally fertile Findhorn Farms has deduced that they\nare complex carbohydrates ordinarily only found by spectoscopy in the\nMagellenic Clouds. I called Devi on my Orgone Box and asked her if\nthis was really the case, and she TM levitated me a letter across the\nAtlantic to tell me it was indeed not just another case of\nmisunderstanding Tesla, though the Miskatonic University hasn\'t\nconfirmed anything at all. At least the Crullers taste good; I got the\nrecipe from Kaspar Hauser.\n\n\n\n\n\n-- \n| Le Jojo: Fresh \'n\' Clean, speaking out to the way you want to live\n| today; American - All American; doing, a bit so, and even more so.\n',
'From: noble@possum.den.mmc.com (Joe A Noble)\nSubject: Re: Newsgroup Split\nOrganization: Martin Marietta Astronautics, Denver\nLines: 26\nNntp-Posting-Host: pogo.den.mmc.com\n\ntmc@spartan.ac.BrockU.CA (Tim Ciceran) writes:\n\n>Chris Herringshaw (tdawson@engin.umich.edu) wrote:\n>: Concerning the proposed newsgroup split, I personally am not in favor of\n>: doing this. I learn an awful lot about all aspects of graphics by reading\n>: this group, from code to hardware to algorithms. I just think making 5\n>: different groups out of this is a wate, and will only result in a few posts\n>: a week per group. I kind of like the convenience of having one big forum\n>: for discussing all aspects of graphics. Anyone else feel this way?\n>: Just curious.\n\n\n>: Daemon\n\n>What he said...\n\n>-- \nDitto here too...\n\n>TMC\n>(tmc@spartan.ac.BrockU.ca)\n\n-- \n __/ / _ __ Joe noble@pogo.den.mmc.com\n /_ / /__ / /__ /__ / ... all the beauty of a dying vulture...\n_/ ____/ _/ _/ ___/ _/ _/ ...the smile of the truly stupid...\n',
"From: luis.nobrega@filebank.cts.com (Luis Nobrega) \nSubject: PC PAINTBRUSH IV+\nDistribution: world\nOrganization: The File Bank BBS - Fallbrook, CA 619-728-4318\nReply-To: luis.nobrega@filebank.cts.com (Luis Nobrega) \nLines: 11\n\nI am trying to configure Zsoft's PC Paintbrush IV+ for use with my\nLogitech Scanman 32 (hand scanner), but I can't get Paintbrush to\nacknowledge the scanner. Is there anybody out there using Paintbrush\nwith a scanner, if so, can you help me out?\n Thanks Luis Nobrega\n \n----\n*--------------------------------------------------------------------------*\n| The File Bank BBS - 619-728-4318 - PCBoard v.14.5a/E10 - USR HST & DS |\n| 8 nodes / RIME / Internet / Largest Clipper file collection in the world |\n*--------------------------------------------------------------------------*\n",
"From: ghilardi@urz.unibas.ch\nSubject: left side pains\nOrganization: University of Basel, Switzerland\nLines: 21\n\nHello to everybody,\nI write here because I am kind of desperate. For about six weeks, I've been\nsuffering on pains in my left head side, the left leg and sometimes the left \narm. I made many tests (e.g. computer tomography, negative, lyme borreliosis,\nnegative, all electrolytes in the blood in their correct range), they're\nall o.K., so I should be healthy. As a matter of fact, I am not feeling so.\nI was also at a Neurologist's too, he considered me healthy too.\n\nThe blood tests have shown that I have little too much of Hemoglobin (17.5,\ncommon range is 14 to 17, I unfortunately do not know about the units).\nCould these hemi-sided pains be the result of this or of a also possible\nblock of the neck muscles ?\n\nI have no fever, and I am not feeling entirely sick, but neither entirely \nhealthy. \n\nPlease answer by direct email on <ghilardi@urz.unibas.ch>\n\nThanks for every hint\n\nNico\n",
"From: regy105@cantva.canterbury.ac.nz (James Haw)\nSubject: Any good electronic Christian magazine?\nOrganization: University of Canterbury, Christchurch, New Zealand\nLines: 9\n\nHi,\n I'd like to subscribe to Leadership Magazine but wonder if there is one on\ndisk instead of on paper. Having it on disk would save me retyping\nillustrations, etc into a word processor. It's just cut and paste.\n If there are other good Christian magazines like Leadership on disk media,\nI'd appreciate any info.\n\nWith gratitude,\nJames.\n",
'From: whitsebd@nextwork.rose-hulman.edu (Bryan Whitsell)\nSubject: Re: "Accepting Jesus in your heart..."\nReply-To: whitsebd@nextwork.rose-hulman.edu\nOrganization: Computer Science Department at Rose-Hulman\nLines: 20\n\nstuff deleted ...\n\n> Religion (especially Christianity) is nothing more than a DRUG.\n> Some people use drugs as an escape from reality. Christians inject\n> themselves with jeezus and live with that high. \n \nYour logic is falty. If Christianity is a DRUG, and once we die we\ndie, then why would you be reluctant to embrase this drug so that\nwhile you are alive you enjoy yourself.\n\nI also question your overall motives for posting this article. Why\nwould you waste your presious fews seconds on this earth posting your\nopinon to a group that will generally reject it.\n\nIf you die, never having acepting Christ as your savior, I hope you\nhave a fantastic life that it is all you evver dreamed because it is\nal of heaven you will ever know.\n\nIn Christ\'s Love,\nBryan\n',
'From: tas@pegasus.com (Len Howard)\nSubject: Re: Question from an agnostic\nOrganization: Pegasus, Honolulu\nLines: 18\n\nHi Damon, No matter what system or explanation of creation you wish\nto accept, you always have to start with one of two premises, creation\nfrom nothing, or creation from something. There are no other\nalternatives. And if we accept one or the other of those two\npremises, then again there are two alternatives, either creation was\nrandom, or was according to some plan.\n If it was random, I am unable to accept that the complex nature of\nour world with interrelated interdependent organisms and creatures\ncould exist as they do. Therefore I am left with creation under the\ncontrol of an intelligence capable of devising such a scheme. I call\nthat intelligence God.\n I also prefer the "Creatio ex nihilo" rather than from chaos, as it\nis cleaner.\n There is obviously no way to prove either or neither. We are and\nwe must have come from somewhere. Choose whatever explanation you\nfeel most comfortable with, Damon. You are the one who has to live\nwith your choice.\nShalom, Len Howard\n',
'From: MANDTBACKA@finabo.abo.fi (Mats Andtbacka)\nSubject: Re: "Accepting Jeesus in your heart..."\nOrganization: Unorganized Usenet Postings UnInc.\nLines: 65\n\nIn <Apr.13.00.08.15.1993.28388@athos.rutgers.edu> jayne@mmalt.guild.org writes:\n> gsu0033@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (Eric Molas) writes:\n> \n>> Firstly, I am an atheist. I am not posting here as an immature flame\n>> start, but rather to express an opinion to my intended audience.\n>[deleted] \n>> \n>> We are _just_ animals. We need sleep, food, and we reproduce. And we\n>> die. \n> \n> I am glad that I am not an atheist. It seems tragic that some people \n> choose a meaningless existence. How terrible to go on living only \n> because one fears death more than life.\n\n ?Huh? Okay, so I\'m not Eric Molas, but even if that _is_ how he\nfeels about life, I disagree with it.\n\n Life, to me, is definitely NOT meaningless; it has precisely the\npurpose and meaning I choose to give it. I go on living because I _like_\nliving; if I needed any further reason, I\'d be free - completely free! -\nto pick any reason that suited me. That freedom can be almost\nintoxicating; it\'s probably the closest I\'ve ever been to a \'religious\'\nexperience. I\'m *very* glad I am an atheist; I wouldn\'t be anything\nelse.\n\n> I feel so sorry for Eric and \n> yet any attempts to share my joy in life with him would be considered as \n> further evidence of the infectious nature of Christianity. \n\n Not unless, in explaining your own subjective experience, you also\ntry to convert him or proselytize. Merely explaining the effects you\npersonally experience religion as having on you, is not "infectious".\nNot unless Eric is paranoid, that is. ;->\n\n> As a Christian I am free to be a human person. I think, love, choose, \n> and create. I will live forever with God.\n\n Whatever floats your goat. You sound happy enough; that\'s fairly\nmuch all that matters, right?\n\n> Christ is not a kind of drug. Drugs are a replacement for Christ. \n\n Erh... Pardon, but it strikes me that sentence sounds reversible.\n\n> Those who have an empty spot in the God-shaped hole in their hearts must \n> do something to ease the pain.\n\n "Empty spot"? "God-shaped hole"? I hear such things a lot from\ntheists; never quite did understand what they were talking about.\nI have no such \'emptiness\' or \'hole\'. Maybe some others do, I wouldn\'t\nknow; but I don\'t, and if I did, I\'d seek help about it. Doesn\'t sound\nlike a mentally healthy situation at all, walking around with a \'hole\'\nin oneself.\n\n> Thank you, Eric for your post. It has helped me to appreciate how much \n> God has blessed me. I hope that you will someday have a more joy-filled \n> and abundant life.\n\n Well, not having written that original post, I don\'t know if it\nwas intended to be interpreted in such a way; but, having reread it\ncarefully, I somewhat doubt it. At least, that\'s not how he gets across\nto _me_, your mileage may vary...\n\n-- \n Disclaimer? "It\'s great to be young and insane!"\n',
'From: geb@cs.pitt.edu (Gordon Banks)\nSubject: Re: Could this be a migraine?\nReply-To: geb@cs.pitt.edu (Gordon Banks)\nOrganization: Univ. of Pittsburgh Computer Science\nLines: 34\n\n\nIn article <20773.3049.uupcb@factory.com> jim.zisfein@factory.com (Jim Zisfein) writes:\n\n>Headaches that seriously interfere with activities of daily living\n>affect about 15% of the population. Doesn\'t that sound like\n>something a "primary care" physician should know something about? I\n>tend to agree with HMO administrators - family physicians should\n>learn the basics of headache management.\n>\nAbsolutely. Unfortunately, most of them have had 3 weeks of neurology\nin medical school and 1 month (maybe) in their residency. Most\nof that is done in the hospital where migraines rarely are seen.\nWhere are they supposed to learn? Those who are diligent and\nread do learn, but most don\'t, unfortunately.\n\n>Sometimes I wonder what tension-type headaches have to do with\n>neurology anyway.\n\nWe are the only ones, sometimes, who have enough interest in headaches\nto spend the time to get enough history to diagnose them. Too often,\nthe primary care physician hears "headache" and loses interest in\nanything but giving the patient analgesics and getting them out of\nthe office so they can get on to something more interesting.\n\n\n>(I am excepting migraine, which is arguably neurologic). Headaches\n\nI hope you meant "inarguably".\n\n-- \n----------------------------------------------------------------------------\nGordon Banks N3JXP | "Skepticism is the chastity of the intellect, and\ngeb@cadre.dsl.pitt.edu | it is shameful to surrender it too soon." \n----------------------------------------------------------------------------\n',
'From: db7n+@andrew.cmu.edu (D. Andrew Byler)\nSubject: Re: Serbian genocide Work of God?\nOrganization: Freshman, Civil Engineering, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA\nLines: 57\n\nD. Andrew Kille writes:\n\n>Are you suggesting that God supports genocide?\n>Perhaps the Germans were "punishing" Jews on God\'s behalf?\n> \n>Any God who works that way is indescribably evil, and unworthy of\n>my worship or faith.\n\nThe Bible does tell us that governments are ordained by God (Romans 13).\n And furthermore, God foreknows everything that would happen. It is\njust to difficult for humans to graps with our limited minds, the\ninevitablity of the sucess of God\'s plan, and this is especially hard to\ngrasp when we see governemnts doing evil. However, though they are\ndoing evil (and we should not cooperate with them when they do such), it\nmust be understood that what happens is what God wanted so as to lead to\nthe final sucess of His plan to save as many souls from hell as is\npossible. In short, the slaughter in Bosnia, though deplorable in the\neyes of God (maybe, then again, they might be getting their just deserts\nnow rather than later; there are plenty of examples of God killing\npeople for their sins - Onan in the Old Testmament for example, and\nAnnias and Spahira in the New) is what he willed to happen so that His\nplan might be accomplished.\n But don\'t forget, it is not unbiblical for God to use one nation to\nexecute His just judgement upon another. The Romans were used to\nfulfill the chorus of "Let his blood be upon our hands" of the crowd in\nJersualem. And Chaldea was chastised by Babylon, which got Israel,\nwhich was inturn gotten by Persia, etc. God does use nations to punish\nother nations, as the Bible very clearly shows in the Old Testament. \nDon\'t you remember the words of God recorded in Daniel, "Mene, mene,\ntekel, peres?" Babylon had been weighed in the balance scales of God\'s\njustice, found severly wanting, and was thus given over to the Persians\nas their due punishment for their rebellion. Another exammple is the\nextirmination of the Cannanites, ordered by God as the task of Israel. \nThe Cannanites had been given their chance, found severly wanting, and\nthe Great Judge, carried out His just sentence accrodingly. I could go\non with more examples, but I see little need to do so, as my point is\nquite clear.\nTwo things need to be remembered at all times. 1) It is not up to us to\nquestion why God has ordered the world as He has. In His divine Wisdom,\nHe made the world as was best in His eyes, and like Paul says in Romans\n9, the clay is not one to tlak back to the potter. 2) The message of\nJesus Christ is as follows: "Repent now, for the Kingdom of Heaven is at\nhand." Jesus Christ did not allow any time for dilly-dallying - "Let\nthe dead bury the dead, come, follow me." There is not an infinite\namount of time, rather Christ is passing by right now, calling people to\nfollow Him and become fishers of men. He does not say, "well, alright,\nyou can call me back in a week and see if my Kingdom fits in with your\nplans." He said "Follow me." His message is NOT "I\'m just a sweety-pie\nwho would never hurt a fly, you\'ve got all the time in the world, and\nDivine Judgement, that\'s only a fairy tale." "Our great God and Savior"\nJesus Christ (Titus 2.5) is also the just and righteous Judge of the\nworld. And it is not up to the defendants in the trial to be\nquestioning his entirely just sentences of either chastisement or mercy.\n\nD. Andrew Byler\n"Does not He who ways the heart perceive [sin], and will He not judge\nmen according to their works?" - Proverbs 24.12\n',
'From: ffujita@s.psych.uiuc.edu (Frank Fujita)\nSubject: Re: "Choleric" and The Great NT/NF Semantic War.\nOrganization: University of Illinois at Urbana\nLines: 6\n\nAlso remember that most people map the\nsanguine/choleric/melencholic/phlegmatic division onto the extraversion\nand neuroticism dimensions (Like Eysenck) and that the MBTI does not\ndeal with neuroticism (Costa & McCrae).\n\nFrank Fujita\n',
'Subject: A word of advice\nFrom: jcopelan@nyx.cs.du.edu (The One and Only)\nOrganization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept.\nSummary: was Re: Yeah, Right\nLines: 14\n\nIn article <65882@mimsy.umd.edu> mangoe@cs.umd.edu (Charley Wingate) writes:\n>\n>I\'ve said enough times that there is no "alternative" that should think you\n>might have caught on by now. And there is no "alternative", but the point\n>is, "rationality" isn\'t an alternative either. The problems of metaphysical\n>and religious knowledge are unsolvable-- or I should say, humans cannot\n>solve them.\n\nHow does that saying go: Those who say it can\'t be done shouldn\'t interrupt\nthose who are doing it.\n\nJim\n--\nHave you washed your brain today?\n',
'From: jack@shograf.com (Jack Ritter)\nSubject: Help!!\nArticle-I.D.: shograf.C531E6.7uo\nDistribution: usa\nOrganization: SHOgraphics, Sunnyvale\nLines: 9\n\nI need a complete list of all the polygons\nthat there are, in order.\n\nI\'ll summarize to the net.\n\n\n--------------------------------------------------------\n "If only I had been compiled with the \'-g\' option."\n---------------------------------------------------------\n',
"From: Steve.Hayes@f22.n7101.z5.fidonet.org\nSubject: Confession & communion\nLines: 14\n\n04 Apr 93, David Cruz-Uribe writes to All:\n\n DC> Also, what is Orthodox practice regarding communion? I read\n DC> a throw-away remark someplace that the Orthodox receive less\n DC> frequently than Catholics do, but was is their current practice?\n DC> Have their been any variations historically?\n\nI think Orthodox practice varies from place to place, from parish to parish and from jurisdiction to jurisdiction. In some parishes here in South Africa the only ones who receive communion are infants (i.e. children under\n 7). In our parish it is expected that one will have been to Vespers and confessional prayers the evening before, and that one will have been fasting. As we have to travel 70km to the church, we don'\nt receive communion every Sunday, but about every third Sunday.\n\nSteve\n\n--- GoldED 2.40\n",
"From: N020BA@tamvm1.tamu.edu\nSubject: Help! Need 3-D graphics code/package for DOS!!!\nOrganization: Texas A&M University\nLines: 7\nNNTP-Posting-Host: tamvm1.tamu.edu\n\n Help!! I need code/package/whatever to take 3-D data and turn it into\na wireframe surface with hidden lines removed. I'm using a DOS machine, and\nthe code can be in ANSI C or C++, ANSI Fortran or Basic. The data I'm using\nforms a rectangular grid.\n Please post your replies to the net so that others may benefit. IMHO, this\nis a general interest question.\n Thank you!!!!!!\n",
'From: topcat!tom@tredysvr.tredydev.unisys.com (Tom Albrecht)\nSubject: Re: old vs. new testament\nOrganization: Applied Presuppositionalism, Ltd.\nLines: 39\n\nREXLEX@fnal.fnal.gov writes:\n\n>We can jillustrate this by pointing to the way God administers His judgment. \n>In the OT, sins were not forgiven, but rather covered up. In the age of the\n>Church not only are sins forgiven (taken away), but the power of SIN is put to\n>death. ...\n\nMy, this distinction seems quite arbitrary.\n\n Blessed is the man whose iniquities are forgiven, whose sin is covered.\n (Ps. 32:1).\n\nand quoted by the apostle Paul:\n\n Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God\n imputeth righteousness without works,\n Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins\n are covered.\n Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin. (Rom. 4:6-8)\n\nThe biblical perspective seems to be that foregiveness and covering are\nparallel/equivalent concepts in both testaments. The dispensational\ndistinction is unwarranted.\n\n> During the millenium, we read that sins are dealt with immediately\n>under the present (ie that Christ is present on earth) rulership of Christ.\n\nI\'m sure Rex has Scripture to back this up. You\'re suggesting Jesus is\ngoing to travel around dealing with individual violations of His law -- for\nmillions perhaps billions of people. Such activity for Moses the lawgiver\nwas considered unwise (cf. Ex. 18:13ff). It makes for interesting\nspeculation, though.\n\nI\'ll leave comments on the so-called "bema seat" vs. "throne" judgments to\nsomeone else. This also seems like more unnecessary divisions ala\ndispensationalism.\n\n--\nTom Albrecht\n',
'From: sieferme@stein.u.washington.edu (Eric Sieferman)\nSubject: Re: I don\'t beleive in you either.\nOrganization: University of Washington, Seattle\nLines: 15\nNNTP-Posting-Host: stein.u.washington.edu\n\nIn article <1993Apr13.213055.818@antioc.antioch.edu> smauldin@antioc.antioch.edu writes:\n>I stopped believing in you as well, long before the invention of technology.\n>\n>--GOD\n>\n\nDon\'t listen to this guy, he\'s just a crank. At first, this business\nabout being the "one true god" was tolerated by the rest of us,\nbut now it has gotten completely out of hand.\n\nBesides, it really isn\'t so bad when people stop believing in you.\nIt\'s much more relaxing when mortals aren\'t always begging you for favors.\n\n-- ZEUS\n\n',
'From: ingles@engin.umich.edu (Ray Ingles)\nSubject: Re: Yeah, Right\nOrganization: University of Michigan Engineering, Ann Arbor\nLines: 49\nDistribution: world\nNNTP-Posting-Host: agar.engin.umich.edu\n\nIn article <66014@mimsy.umd.edu> mangoe@cs.umd.edu (Charley Wingate) writes:\n>Benedikt Rosenau writes:\n>\n>>And what about that revelation thing, Charley?\n>\n>If you\'re talking about this intellectual engagement of revelation, well,\n>it\'s obviously a risk one takes.\n\n Ah, now here is the core question. Let me suggest a scenario.\n\n We will grant that a God exists, and uses revelation to communicate\nwith humans. (Said revelation taking the form (paraphrased from your\nown words) \'This infinitely powerful deity grabs some poor schmuck,\nmakes him take dictation, and then hides away for a few hundred years\'.)\n Now, there exists a human who has not personally experienced a\nrevelation. This person observes that not only do these revelations seem\nto contain elements that contradict rather strongly aspects of the\nobserved world (which is all this person has ever seen), but there are\nmany mutually contradictory claims of revelation.\n\n Now, based on this, can this person be blamed for concluding, absent\na personal revelation of their own, that there is almost certainly\nnothing to this \'revelation\' thing?\n\n>I\'m not an objectivist, so I\'m not particularly impressed with problems of\n>conceptualization. The problem in this case is at least as bad as that of\n>trying to explain quantum mechanics and relativity in the terms of ordinary\n>experience. One can get some rough understanding, but the language is, from\n>the perspective of ordinary phenomena, inconsistent, and from the\n>perspective of what\'s being described, rather inexact (to be charitable).\n>\n>An analogous situation (supposedly) obtains in metaphysics; the problem is\n>that the "better" descriptive language is not available.\n\n Absent this better language, and absent observations in support of the\nclaims of revelation, can one be blamed for doubting the whole thing?\n\n Here is what I am driving at: I have thought a long time about this. I\nhave come to the honest conclusion that if there is a deity, it is\nnothing like the ones proposed by any religion that I am familiar with.\n Now, if there does happen to be, say, a Christian God, will I be held\naccountable for such an honest mistake?\n\n Sincerely,\n\n Ray Ingles ingles@engin.umich.edu\n\n "The meek can *have* the Earth. The rest of us are going to the\nstars!" - Robert A. Heinlein\n',
"From: moy@acf2.nyu.edu (moy)\nSubject: Apology\nOrganization: New York University\nLines: 3\n\nI responded to a post last week and it carried somewhat of a hostile\ntone for which I am apologizing for. It is not my intent to create\ncontriversy or to piss people off. To those who I offend, I'm sorry\n",
'From: pharvey@quack.kfu.com (Paul Harvey)\nSubject: Re: Sabbath Admissions 5of5\nOrganization: The Duck Pond public unix: +1 408 249 9630, log in as \'guest\'.\nLines: 155\n\nI wrote in response to dlecoint@garnet.acns.fsu.edu (Darius_Lecointe):\n\n>[It\'s not clear how much more needs to be said other than the FAQ. I\n>think Paul\'s comments on esteeming one day over another (Rom 14) is\n>probably all that needs to be said.\n\nWas Paul a God too? Is an interpretation of the words of Paul of higher\npriority than the direct word of Jesus in Matt5:14-19? Paul begins\nRomans 14 with "If someone is weak in the faith ..." Do you count\nyourself as one who is weak in the faith?\n\n>I accept that Darius is doing\n>what he does in honor of the Lord. I just wish he might equally\n>accept that those who "esteem all days alike" are similarly doing\n>their best to honor the Lord.\n\nYes, but what does the Bible have to say? What did Jesus say? Paul\ncloses Romans 14 with, "On the other hand, the person with doubts about\nsomething who eats it anyway is guilty, because he isn\'t acting on his\nfaith, and any failure to act on faith is a sin." Gaus, ISBN:0-933999-99-2\nHave you read the Ten Commandments which are a portion of the Law? Have\nyou read Jesus\' word in Matt5:14-19? Is there any doubt in your mind\nabout what is right and what is sin (Greek hamartia = missing the mark)?\n\n>However I\'d like to be clear that I do not think there\'s unambiguous\n>proof that regular Christian worship was on the first day. As I\n>indicated, there are responses on both of the passages cited.\n\nWhereas, the Ten Commandments and Jesus\' words in Matt5:14-19 are fairly\nclear, are they not?\n\n>The difficulty with both of these passages is that they are actually\n>about something else. They both look like they are talking about\n>nnregular Christian meetings, but neither explicitly says "and they\n>gathered every Sunday for worship". We get various pieces of\n>information, but nothing aimed at answering this question. \n\nMatt5:14-19 doesn\'t answer your question?\n\n>what day Christians met in their houses. Acts 20:7, despite Darius\'\n>confusion, is described by Acts as occuring on Sunday. ... It doesn\'t\n>say they gathered to\n>see Paul off, but that when they were gathered for breaking bread,\n\nBreaking bread - roughly synonymous with eating.\n\n>So I think the most obvious reading of this is that "on the first day\n>of every week" simply means every time they gather for worship. \n\nHow do you unite this concept of yours with the Ten Commandments and\nJesus\'s word in Matt5:14-19?\n\n>I think the reason we have only implications and not clear statements\n>is that the NT authors assumed that their readers knew when Christian\n>worship was.\n>--clh]\n\nOr, they assumed that the Ten Commandments and Jesus\' word in\nMatt5:14-19 actually stood for something? Perhaps they were "strong in\nthe faith?"\n\n---------------------------\n\n[No, I don\'t believe that Paul can overrule God. However Paul was\nwriting for a largely Gentile audience. The Law was regarded by Jews\nat the time (and now) as binding on Jews, but not on Gentiles. There\nare rules that were binding on all human beings (the so-called Noachic\nlaws), but they are quite minimal. The issue that the Church had to\nface after Jesus\' death was what to do about Gentiles who wanted to\nfollow Christ. The decision not to impose the Law on them didn\'t say\nthat the Law was abolished. It simply acknowledged that fact that it\ndidn\'t apply to Gentiles. Thus there is no contradiction with Mat 5.\nAs far as I can tell, both Paul and other Jewish Christians did\ncontinue to participate in Jewish worship on the Sabbath. Thus they\ncontinued to obey the Law. The issue was (and is) with Gentile\nChristians, who are not covered by the Law (or at least not by the\nceremonial aspects of it).\n\nJesus dealt mostly with Jews. I think we can reasonably assume that\nMat 5 was directed to a Jewish audience. He did interact with\nGentiles a few times (e.g. the centurion whose slave was healed and a\ncouple of others). The terms used to describe the centurion (see Luke\n7) suggest that he was a "God-fearer", i.e. a Gentile who followed\nGod, but had not adopted the whole Jewish Law. He was commended by\nJewish elders as a worthy person, and Jesus accepted him as such.\nThis seems to me to indicate that Jesus accepted the prevailing view\nthat Gentiles need not accept the Law.\n\nHowever there\'s more involved if you want to compare Jesus and Paul on\nthe Law. In order to get a full picture of the role of the Law, we\nhave to come to grips with Paul\'s apparent rejection of the Law, and\nhow that relates to Jesus\' commendation of the Law. At least as I\nread Paul, he says that the Law serves a purpose that has been in a\ncertain sense superceded. Again, this issue isn\'t one of the\nabolition of the Law. In the middle of his discussion, Paul notes\nthat he might be understood this way, and assures us that that\'s not\nwhat he intends to say. Rather, he sees the Law as primarily being\npresent to convict people of their sinfulness. But ultimately it\'s an\nimpossible standard, and one that has been superceded by Christ.\nPaul\'s comments are not the world\'s clearest here, and not everyone\nagrees with my reading. But the interesting thing to notice is that\neven this radical position does not entail an abolition of the Law.\nIt still remains as an uncompromising standard, from which not an iota\nor dot may be removed. For its purpose of convicting of sin, it\'s\nimportant that it not be relaxed. However for Christians, it\'s not\nthe end -- ultimately we live in faith, not Law.\n\nWhile the theoretical categories they use are rather different, in the\nend I think Jesus and Paul come to a rather similar conclusion. The\nquoted passage from Mat 5 should be taken in the context of the rest\nof the Sermon on the Mount, where Jesus shows us how he interprets the\nLaw. The "not an iota or dot" would suggest a rather literal reading,\nbut in fact that\'s not Jesus\' approach. Jesus\' interpretations\nemphasize the intent of the Law, and stay away from the ceremonial\ndetails. Indeed he is well known for taking a rather free attitude\ntowards the Sabbath and kosher laws. Some scholars claim that Mat\n5:17-20 needs to be taken in the context of 1st Cent. Jewish\ndiscussions. Jesus accuses his opponents of caring about giving a\ntenth of even the most minor herbs, but neglecting the things that\nreally matter: justice, mercy and faith, and caring about how cups and\nplates are cleaned, but not about the fact that inside the people who\nuse them are full of extortion and rapacity. (Mat 23:23-25) This, and\nthe discussion later in Mat 5, suggest that Jesus has a very specific\nview of the Law in mind, and that when he talks about maintaining the\nLaw in its full strength, he is thinking of these aspects of it.\nPaul\'s conclusion is similar. While he talks about the Law being\nsuperceded, all of the specific examples he gives involve the\n"ceremonial law", such as circumcision and the Sabbath. He is quite\nconcerned about maintaining moral standards.\n\nThe net result of this is that when Paul talks about the Law being\nsuperceded, and Jesus talks about the Law being maintained, I believe\nthey are talking about different aspects of the Law. Paul is\nembroiled in arguments about circumcision. As is natural in letters\nresponding to specific situations, he\'s looking at the aspect of the\nLaw that is currently causing trouble: the Law as specifically Jewish\nceremonies. He certainly does not intend to abolish divine standards\nof conduct. On the other hand, when Jesus commends the Law, he seems\nto be talking the Law in its broadest implications for morals and\nhuman relationships, and deemphasizing those aspects that were later\nto give Paul so much trouble.\n\nIt\'s unfortunate that people use the same terms in different ways, but\nwe should be familiar with that from current conflicts. Look at the\nway terms like "family values" take on special meaning from the\ncurrent context. Imagine some poor historian of the future trying to\nfigure out why "family values" should be used as a code word for\nopposition to homosexuality in one specific period in the U.S. I\nthink Law had taken on a similar role in the arguments Paul was\ninvolved in. Paul was clearly not rejecting all of the Jewish values\nthat go along with the term "Law", any more than people who concerned\nabout the "family values" movement are really opposed to family\nvalues.\n\n--clh]\n',
"From: mhollowa@ic.sunysb.edu (Michael Holloway)\nSubject: Re: Science and methodology (was: Homeopathy ... tradition?)\nKeywords: science errors Turpin \nNntp-Posting-Host: engws5.ic.sunysb.edu\nOrganization: State University of New York at Stony Brook\nLines: 16\n\nIn article <C5JoDH.9IG@news.Hawaii.Edu> lady@uhunix.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu (Lee Lady) writes:\n>\n>Furthermore, the big bucks approach to science promotes what I think is\n>one of the most significant errors in science: choosing to investigate\n>questions because they can be readily handled by the currently\n>fashionable methodology (or because one can readily get institutional\n>or corporate sponsorship for them) instead of directing attention to\n>those questions which seem to have fundamental significance.\n\nShades of James Watson! That's exactly the way many workers have described\ntheir misgivings about the Human Genome Project. If you take a rigid \ndefinition of scientific research, the mere accumulation of data is not \ndoing science. One of the early arguments against the project were that the \nresources would be better used to focus on specific genetics-related \nproblems rather than just going off and collecting maps and sequence. \nThe project can't be so narrowly defined or easily described now though.\n",
'From: Dan Wallach <dwallach@cs.berkeley.edu>\nSubject: FAQ: Typing Injuries (1/4): Changes since last month [monthly posting]\nSupersedes: <typing-injury-faq/changes_734664243@cs.berkeley.edu>\nOrganization: University of California, Berkeley\nLines: 51\nExpires: 22 May 1993 04:18:16 GMT\nReply-To: Dan Wallach <dwallach@cs.berkeley.edu>\nNNTP-Posting-Host: elmer-fudd.cs.berkeley.edu\nSummary: what\'s new and happening with Dan\'s FAQ and ftp archive\nOriginator: dwallach@elmer-fudd.cs.berkeley.edu\n\nArchive-name: typing-injury-faq/changes\nVersion: $Revision: 1.3 $ $Date: 1993/04/13 04:12:33 $\n\nThis file details changes to the soda.berkeley.edu archive and summarizes\nwhat\'s new in the various FAQ (frequently asked questions) documents.\nThis will be posted monthly, along with the full FAQ to the various net\ngroups. The various mailing lists will either receive the full FAQ\nevery month, or every third month, but will always get this file, once\nper month. Phew!\n\n============================================================================\nChanges to the Typing Injuries FAQ and soda.berkeley.edu archive, this month\n============================================================================\n\na few new files on the soda.berkeley.edu archive\n the TidBITS "Caring for your wrists" document\n RSI Network #11\n Advice about "adverse mechanical tension"\n More details about the new Apple keyboard\n more info about carpal tunnel syndrome (carpal.explained)\n more general info about RSI (rsi.details, rsi.physical)\n\n marketing info on the Vertical\n MacWeek article the Bat\n\nnew details on hooking a normal PC keyboard to an RS/6000\n\nupdated pricing info on the DataHand and Comfort\n\nHalf-QWERTY now available for anonymous ftp on explorer.dgp.toronto.edu\n\nnew GIF picutures!\n The Apple Adjustable Keyboard\n The Key Tronic FlexPro\n another picture of the Kinesis\n The Vertical\n The Tony!\n\n============================================================================\n\nIf you\'d like to receive a copy of the FAQ and you didn\'t find it in the\nsame place you found this document, you can either send e-mail to \ndwallach@cs.berkeley.edu, or you can anonymous ftp to soda.berkeley.edu\n(128.32.149.19) and look in the pub/typing-injury directory.\n\nEnjoy!\n\n-- \nDan Wallach "One of the most attractive features of a Connection\ndwallach@cs.berkeley.edu Machine is the array of blinking lights on the faces\nOffice#: 510-642-9585 of its cabinet." -- CM Paris Ref. Manual, v6.0, p48.\n',
"Subject: good book\nFrom: RGINZBERG@eagle.wesleyan.edu (Ruth Ginzberg)\nDistribution: world\nOrganization: Philosophy Dept., Wesleyan University\nNntp-Posting-Host: wesleyan.edu\nX-News-Reader: VMS NEWS 1.20Lines: 48\nLines: 48\n\nHaving been gone for 10 days, I'm way behind on my News reading, so many\npardons if I am repeating something that has been said already.\n\nI read a good book while I was away, THE ANTIBIOTIC PARADOX: HOW MIRACLE DRUGS\nARE DESTROYING THE MIRACLE, Stuart B. Levy, M.D., 1992, Plenum Press,\nISBN:0-306-44331-7.\n\nIt is about drug resistant microorganisms & the history of antibiotics. It\nis interesting & written at a level which I think many sci.med readers would\nappreciate -- which is: it assumes an intelligent reader who is capable of\nunderstanding scientific concepts, but who may not yet have been exposed to\nthis particular information. I.e., it assumes you are smart enough to\nunderstand it, but it does not assume that you already have a degree in\nmicrobiology or medicine. Table of contents:\n\nChapter 1\n\tFrom Tragedy the Antibiotic Age is Born\nChapter 2\n\tThe Disease and the Cure: The Microscopic World of Bacteria and\n\tAntibiotics\nChapter 3\n\tReliance on Medicine and Self-Medication: The Seeds of Antibiotic\n\tMisuse\nChapter 4\n\tAntibiotic Resistance: Microbial Adaptation and Evolution\nChapter 5\n\tThe Antibiotic Myth\nChapter 6\n\tAntibiotics, Animals and the Resistance Gene Pool\nChapter 7\n\tFurther Ecological Considerations: Antibiotic Use in Agriculture,\n\tAquaculture, Pets, and Minor Animal Species\nChapter 8\n\tFuture Prospects: New Advances Against Potential Disaster\nChapter 9\n\tThe Individual and Antibiotic Resistance\nChapter 10\n\tAntibiotic Resistance: A Societal Issue at Local, National, and\n\tInternational Levels.\n\nIncludes bibliography and index.\n\nI personally found that it made very good Airplane-Reading.\n-rg\n\n------------------------\nRuth Ginzberg <rginzberg@eagle.wesleyan.edu>\nPhilosophy Department;Wesleyan University;USA\n",
'From: MNHCC@cunyvm.bitnet (Marty Helgesen)\nSubject: Re: Question about Virgin Mary\nOrganization: City University of New York\nLines: 45\n\nIn article <May.3.05.01.53.1993.9964@athos.rutgers.edu>, a.faris@trl.oz.au (Aziz\nFaris) says:\n>A.Faris\n<<Posting deleted. The moderator replies:\n>[I think you\'re talking about the "assumption of the Blessed Virgin\n>Mary". It says that "The Immaculate Mother of God, the ever Virgin\n>Mary, having completed the course of her earthly life, was assumed\n>body and soul into heavenly glory." This was defined by a Papal\n>statement in 1950, though it had certainly been believed by some\n>before that. Like the Immaculate Conception, this is primarily a\n>Roman Catholic doctrine, and like it, it has no direct Biblical\n>support. Note that Catholics do not believe in "sola scriptura".\n>That is, they do not believe that the Bible is the only source of\n>Christian knowledge. Thus the fact that a doctrine has little\n>Biblical support is not necessarily significant to them. They believe\n>that truth can be passed on through traditions of the Church, and also\n>that it can be revealed to the Church. I\'m not interested in yet\n>another Catholic/Protestant argument, but if any Catholics can tell us\n>the basis for these beliefs, I think it would be appropriate. --clh]\n\nThat is generally accuate, but contains one serious error. We Catholics\ndo believe that God\'s revealed truth that is not explicitly recorded in\nthe Bible can be and is passed on through the Tradition of the Church.\nIt should be noted that the Tradition of the Church, otherwise known as\nSacred Tradition, is not the same as ordinary human traditions.\nHowever, we do not believe that additional truth will be revealed to\nthe Church. Public revelation, which is the basis of Catholic doctrine,\nended with the death of St. John, the last Apostle. Nothing new can\nbe added. Theologians study this revelation and can draw out implications\nthat were not recognized previously, so that the Council of Nicea could\ndefine statements about the theology of the Trinity and the Incarnation\nthat were not explicitly stated in the Bible and had been disputed\nbefore the council, but there was no new revelation at Nicea or at\nany subsequent council.\n\nCardinal Newman\'s _An Essay on the Development of Christian Doctrine_,\nwritten while he was still an Anglican, is an excellent discussion of\nof this point. It was recently reprinted as a Doubleday Image Books\npaperback with some related shorter works under the title _Conscience,\nConsensus, and the Development of Doctrine_.\n-------\nMarty Helgesen\nBitnet: mnhcc@cunyvm Internet: mnhcc@cunyvm.cuny.edu\n\n"What if there were no such thing as a hypothetical situation?"\n',
'From: dfuller@portal.hq.videocart.com (Dave Fuller)\nSubject: Re: thoughts on christians\nOrganization: VideOcart Inc.\nX-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL3\nLines: 40\n\ncmtan@iss.nus.sg (Tan Chade Meng - dan) writes:\n: \n[ . . . . . ]\n:\n: Personally, I feel that since religion have such a poweful\n: psychological effect, we should let theists be. But the problem is that\n: religions cause enormous harm to non-believers and to humanity as a whole\n: (holy wars, inquisitions, inter-religious hatred, impedence of science\n: & intellectual progress, us-&-them attitudes etc etc. Need I say more?).\n: I really don\'t know what we can do about them. Any comments?\n: \n\n I have always held that there should be no attempt to change a persons\nattitude or lifestyle as long as it makes them happy and does not tax\nanybody else. This seems to be ok for atheists. You don\'t get an atheist\nknocking on your door, stopping you in the airport, or handing out\nliterature at a social event. Theists seem to think that thier form of\nhappy should work for others and try to make it so. \n\n My sister is a \nborn again, and she was a real thorn in the side for my entire family\nfor several years. She finally got the clue that she couldn\'t help.\nDuring that period she bought me "I was atheist, now I\'m Xtian" books\nfor my birthday and Xmas several times. Our birthday cards would contain\nverses. It was a problem. I told my mom that I was going to send my\nsister an atheist piece of reading material. I got a "Don\'t you dare".\nMy mom wasn\'t religious. Why did she insist that I not send it ??\n\n Because our society has driven into us that religion is ok to\npreach, non-religion should be self contained. What a crock of shit.\nI finally told my sister that I didn\'t find her way of life attractive.\nI have seen exactly 0 effort from her on trying to convert me since then.\n\n I\'m sick of religious types being pampered, looked out for, and WORST\nOF ALL . . . . respected more than atheists. There must be an end\nin sight.\n\nDave Fuller\ndfuller@portal.hq.videocart.com\n\n',
'From: halsall@murray.fordham.edu (Paul Halsall)\nSubject: Bible Unsuitable for New Christians\nReply-To: halsall@murray.fordham.edu\nOrganization: J. Random Misconfigured Site\nLines: 42\n\n\n\tA "new Christian" wrote that he was new to the faith and \nlearning about it "by reading the Bible, of course". I am not\nat all sure this is the best path to follow.\n\tWhile the Bible is, for Christians, the word of God, the \nrevelation of God is Jesus Christ and the chief legacy of this\nrevalation is the Church. I am not recommending any one\ndenommination, but I do recommend finding a comfortable christian\ncongregation in which to develop your faith, rather than just\nreading the Bible.\n\tThis does not mean that the Bible should not be read, although\nI would stick to the Gospels, epistles, and Psalms and avoid the\nBook of Revelation altogether [until you are with friends you are\ncomfortable with]. I am sure that mistakenly fervent projects to\nread the entire Bible have frequently bogged down with a remarkable\nlack of fervour somewhere in the middle of Leviticus, or for the really\nsturdy, somewhere in Chronicles.\n\tThe point is that the Bible is their to illustrate the Faith\nof Christians, but does not provide the totality of that faith. Vital\nbeliefs of virtually all Christians are simply not mentioned -\nthe Trinity, the duality of natures in Christ, types of Church\norganization. All these beliefs and practices have developed from the\nlived experience of the Christian people, an experience lived one\nhopes in the Spirit. As such the Bible, I think, is better studies\nin the context of a congregation, and the context of other reading.\n\tFollowing up on a suggestion of an old confessor of mine, I \nwould even suggest that a good novel is a good way to reflect on the\nchristian life. [Most novels of any profundity are actually discussing\nthe nature of good and evil in the human heart]. My own induction into\nthe christian faith was brought about [after grace] through reading\nGraham Greene: _The Power and the Glory_ and the poetry of Gerard\nManley Hopkins. I would also recommend Graham Greene\'s _Monsignor\nQuixote_ and any novel by Iris Murdoch. The last is not even a Christian,\nbut such is her insistence on the need for the good life, that, frankly,\nI often am more uplifted and God directed after reading her than after\nreading many parts of the Bible. And that after all is what being\na Christian is all about: letting your soul and your life be, in\nsome way, directed towards the infinite, represented to us by\nthe person of Jesus Christ.\n\nPaul Halsall\nHalsall@murray.fordham.edu\n',
'From: twain@carson.u.washington.edu (Barbara Hlavin)\nSubject: Re: Is MSG sensitivity superstition?\nArticle-I.D.: shelley.1qvq10INNlij\nDistribution: na\nOrganization: University of Washington, Seattle\nLines: 38\nNNTP-Posting-Host: carson.u.washington.edu\n\nIn article <1993Apr19.204855.10818@rtsg.mot.com> lundby@rtsg.mot.com (Walter F. Lundby) writes:\n>As nobody in the food industry has even bothered to address my previous\n>question "WHY DO YOU NEED TO PUT MSG IN ALMOST EVERY FOOD?" I must assume\n>that my wife\'s answer is closer to the truth than I hoped it was.\nI don\'t mean to be disrespectful to your concerns, but it seems to me \nthat you\'re getting all wound up in a non-issue. \n\nAs many knowledgeable people have pointed out, msg is a naturally \noccurring substance in a lot, if not most, foods. When food \nmanufacturers add it to a preparation, they do so because it\'s a \nknown flavor enhancer. \n\nYour wife\'s theory, that MSG is added to food to stimulate appetite, \nmay well be true. But I don\'t believe it\'s ALWAYS the reason it\'s \nadded. People are (largely, for the most part) in charge of their \nown appetites. \n\n>children\'s and my parent\'s) seem to fixate on a particular brand of pet\n>food. The cat will eat any product within one brand and not any other\n>brand. I have wondered if this is not a case of preference, but, some\n>sort of chemical training or addiction. My questions, for the net, are:\n>Does the FDA regulate the contents of pet food? Is it allowed for pet\n>food to contain addictive or conditioning substances? Is MSG put in \n>pet food?\n>\nYou don\'t know much about cats, do you? \n\nCats will Take Advantage of You. Resign yourself: you will never \nunderstand a cat. Their tastes are whimsical. \n\nI also suspect, though it\'s been a while since I\'ve checked ingredients \non commercial cat food, that there are much more stringent requirements \non pet food additives than human. \n\nSee, the FDA has this stupid idea that human beings have the intelligence \nto look out after their own interests. \n\nBarbara, wondering how her cat would take care of *her*\n',
'From: Desiree_Bradley@mindlink.bc.ca (Desiree Bradley)\nSubject: Doing the work of God??!!)\nOrganization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada\nLines: 33\n\nAs our local.religion.christian BBS group seems moribund, I\'m posting here.\n\nOn one of the Sundays just before Easter I went to church. The sermon was\nbased on a story in the Book of Joshua. (The one about Joshua sending out\nspies to the land he was planning to take) What I particularly remember,\nbecause of having heard part of a CBC radio documentary on Bosnia, was that\nthe Rahab (the woman who sheltered the spies) said that the people were\n"melting in fear." What with having heard that CBC radio documentary and\nknowing that the Muslims in Bosnia were losing the war, I felt\nuncomfortable. After all, the Serbs are driving non-Christians out. On\nthe other hand, ministers do say that the Bible is opposed to the values\nheld by our secular society. Anyhow members of that church are involved in\nout-of-country missionary work. Also, the pastor has talked of spiritual\nwarfare and of bringing Christ to the nonreligious people of our area.\n\nThe next Sunday, the sermon was about Joshua 6 (where the Israelites\ntake Jericho and then proceed to massacre everybody there --- except\nfor Rahab, who had sheltered the spies). With those reports about\nBosnia in my mind, I felt uncomfortable about the minister saying that\nthe massacre (the one in Joshua) was right. But what really bothered\nme was that, if I was going to try taking Christianity seriously, I\nshouldn\'t be so troubled about the reports of "ethnic cleansing" in\nBosnia. Certainly, my sympathies shouldn\'t be with the Moslims.\nConsidering that the Bosnian Muslims are descendants of Christians\nwho, under Turkish rule, converted to Islam could the Serbs be doing\nGod\'s work?\n\n[The example of God\'s people setting out on bloody wars of conquest\nhas always been troubling in discussions here. I personally question\nwhether they were right even at the time. But those who believe they\nwere consider that the wars were justified only because they were\nspecifically commanded by God. Somehow I don\'t see the Serbs behaving\nlike a group that is led by God in this matter. --clh]\n',
'From: db7n+@andrew.cmu.edu (D. Andrew Byler)\nSubject: Re: What WAS the immaculate conception\nOrganization: Freshman, Civil Engineering, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA\nLines: 48\n\nBiblical basis for the Immaculate Conception:\n\n1) "I will put enmity between you [the Serpent] and the woman, and\nbetween your seed and her seed, she [can also be read he] shall crush\nyour head and you shall bruise her [or his] heel."\n -Genesis 3.15\n\n2) "He who commits sin is of the devil ..."\n -1 John 3.8\n\n3) "Hail, full of grace [greek - kecharitomene], the Lord is with thee ..."\n -Luke 1.28\n\n From the above, we prove the doctrine of the Immaculate Conception.\n First, God has given the proto-evangel in Genesis 3.15, which is the\nfirst promise of a savior, who will redeem mankind from the wiles of\nSatan. "[Satan] was a murderer from the beginning, and has not stood in\nthe truth because there is no truth in him." John 8.44. Now the\nproto-evangel promises several things, enmity between Satan and "the\nwoman", and enmity between Satan and "her seed." Now the woman is both\nEve (who is the immediate point of reference) and Mary, the second Eve. \n"Her seed" is Jesus Christ, and He is also at enmity with Satan in the\nsame way as Mary is said to be at enmity with Satan. Thus, knowing as\nwe do that Jesus Christ is sinless (Hebrews 7.26), we can conclude that\nMary is also sinless because if she wasn\'t she would 1) not be at enmity\nwith the devil, as 1 John 3.8 tells us, and 2) the relation of her\nsinlessness to Christ\'s sinlessness would be called into question, as\nwould God\'s veracity. For God promised an enmity between Mary and the\nserpent, and it is not possible for God to lie or be decieved.\n Second, we have the Angelic Greeting where Mary is called by the\nArchangle Gabriel "full of grace." As I pointed out above this is from\nthe Greek word "Kecharitomene" which means not just full of grace, but a\nplenitude or perfection of grace. The sense of it is best grasped by\nthe footnote to the Jerusalem Bible, "Hail you who have been and reamin\nfilled with grace." But that is a little to long to say, so it is\nreduced to full of grace. And as it says, "you who have been" Mary had\nalways been filled with grace, from the moment of her conception, which\nwas also the moment of her salvation, until her death some years later.\n It must be admitted that it is possible that God could have done\nwhat the doctrine of the Immaclute Conception says He did do. And if\nGod could keep himself free from any contact with sin, through his\nMother, He would have, and the Bible records this fact, to which the\nFathers of the Church such as St. John Damascus, St. Augustine of Hippo\n, St. Ambrose and others are in complete agreement with, as is all of\nChristian tradition, and as is the infallible declaration of the Pope on\nthe matter in "Ineffibilus Deus."\n\nAndy Byler\n',
'From: Donald Mackie <Donald_Mackie@med.umich.edu>\nSubject: Re: Seeking advice/experience with back problem\nOrganization: UM Anesthesiology\nLines: 20\nDistribution: world\nNNTP-Posting-Host: 141.214.86.38\nX-UserAgent: Nuntius v1.1.1d9\nX-XXDate: Fri, 16 Apr 93 15:41:32 GMT\n\nIn article <C5FI9r.7yz@cbnewsk.cb.att.com> janet.m.cooper,\njmcooper@cbnewsk.cb.att.com writes:\n>The mother of a friend of mine is experiencing a disabling back\n>pain. After MRIs, CT scans, and doctors visits she has been\npresented\n>with 2 alternatives: \n>(1) live with the pain\n>or (2) undergo a somewhat\n>risky operation which may leave her paralyzed. She also has a \n\nSince her symptoms are only pain she would do weel to seek the\nadvice of a good, multi-disciplinary pain clinic. It is distressing\nto think that people are stll being told they have to "live with the\npain" when many options for pain management (rather than treating\nMRI findings) are available. A good pain clinic will accept that\nthis lady\'s problem is her pain and set about finding ways of\nrelieveing that.\n\nDon Mackie - his opinions\nUM Anesthesiology will disavow...\n',
"From: weilej@cary115.its.rpi.edu (Jason Lee Weiler)\nSubject: Re: need a viewer for gl files\nNntp-Posting-Host: cary115.its.rpi.edu\nReply-To: weilej@rpi.edu\nOrganization: Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Troy, NY.\nLines: 17\n\nIn article <1qu36i$kh7@dux.dundee.ac.uk>, dwestner@cardhu.mcs.dundee.ac.uk (Dominik Westner) writes:\n|> Hi, \n|> \n|> the subject says it all. Is there a PD viewer for gl files (for X)?\n|> \n|> Thanks\n|> \n|> \n|> Dominik\n|> \n\nDominik,\n\n\tHave you tried xgrasp? It's out there on several ftp sites.(not sure which, but archie can find it, I'm sure.) It works ok but it lacks an interface.\n\n-Jason Weiler\n<weilej@rpi.edu>\n",
"From: ednobles@sacam.OREN.ORTN.EDU (Edward d Nobles)\nSubject: POV .TGA's and SpeedStar 24\nOrganization: Oak Ridge National Laboratory\nX-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL9]\nLines: 17\n\n\nI finally got a 24 bit viewer for my POVRAY generated .TGA files.\n\nIt was written in C by Sean Malloy and he kindly sent me a copy. He\nwrote it for the same purpose, to view .TGA files using his SpeedStar 24.\n\nIt ONLY works with the SpeedStar 24 and I cannot send copies since it is\nnot my program. I believe the author may release a version at a future\ntime when the program is more developed. He may or may not comment on\nthis, as he pleases.\n\nThanks to all who were helpful.\n\nRegards,\n\nJim Nobles\n\n",
"Subject: .GL and .FLI specs\nFrom: arthur@qedbbs.com (Arthur Choung)\nOrganization: The QED BBS, Lakewood CA\nLines: 6\n\nCan somebody point out to me where I can find the specs for .GL and .FLI files\nfound on PC's?\n\n------------------------------\narthur@qedbbs.com (Arthur Choung) or qed!arthur\nThe QED BBS -- (310)420-9327\n",
'From: jbrown@batman.bmd.trw.com\nSubject: Re: Death Penalty / Gulf War (long)\nLines: 346\n\nIn article <930420.105805.0x8.rusnews.w165w@mantis.co.uk>, mathew <mathew@mantis.co.uk> writes:\n> jbrown@batman.bmd.trw.com writes:\n>>In article <930419.115707.6f2.rusnews.w165w@mantis.co.uk>, mathew\n>><mathew@mantis.co.uk> writes:\n>>> Which "liberal news media" are we talking about?\n>> \n>> Western news in general, but in particular the American "mass media":\n>> CBS, NBC, ABC, etc. The general tone of the news during the whole\n>> war was one of "those poor, poor Iraqis" along with "look how precisely\n>> this cruise missile blew this building to bits".\n> \n> Most odd. Over here there was very little about the suffering of the Iraqi\n> civilians until towards the end of the war; and then it was confined to the\n> few remaining quality newspapers.\n\nTrue. At first, the news media seemed entranced by all the new gizmos\nthe military was using, not to mention the taped video transmissions from\nthe missiles as they zeroed in on their targets. But later, and especially\nafter the bunker full of civilians was hit, they changed their tone. It\nseemed to me that they didn\'t have the stomach for the reality of war,\nthat innocent people really do die and are maimed in warfare. It\'s like\nthey were only pro-Gulf-War as long as it was "nice and clean" (smart\nmissiles dropping in on military HQs), but not when pictures of dead,\ndying, and maimed civilians started cropping up. What naive hypocrites!\n\n> \n>>>> How about all the innocent people who died in blanket-bombing in WW2?\n>>>> I don\'t hear you bemoaning them!\n\n[ discussion about blanket-bombing and A-bombs deleted.]\n>>> \n>> All things considered, the fire-bombings and the atomic bomb were\n>> essential (and therefore justified) in bringing the war to a quick\n ^^^^^^^^^\n>> end to avoid even greater allied losses.\n\nI should have said here "militarily justified". It seems from your\ncomments below that you understood this as meaning "morally justified".\nI apologize.\n\n> \n> What about the evidence that America knew Japan was about to surrender after\n> Hiroshima but *before* Nagasaki? Is that another lie peddled by the liberal\n> media conspiracy?\n\nI have often wondered about this. I\'ve always thought that the first bomb\nshould have been dropped on Japan\'s island fortress of Truk. A good,\ninpenatrable military target. The second bomb could\'ve been held back\nfor use on an industrial center if need be. But I digress.\n\nYes, I have heard that we found evidence (after the war, BTW) that Japan\nwas seriously considering surrender after the first bomb. Unfortunately,\nthe military junta won out over the moderates and rejected the US\'s\nulimatum. Therefore the second bomb was dropped. Most unfortunate, IMO.\n\n> \n>> I, for one, don\'t regret it.\n> \n> Nuke a Jap for Jesus!\n> \n\nI don\'t regret the fact that sometimes military decisions have to be made\nwhich affect the lives of innocent people. But I do regret the \ncircumstances which make those decisions necessary, and I regret the\nsuffering caused by those decisions. \n\n[...]\n\n>>> Why all the fuss about Kuwait and not East Timor, Bosnia, or even Tibet?\n>>> If Iraq is so bad, why were we still selling them stuff a couple of weeks\n>>> before we started bombing?\n>> \n>> I make no claim or effort to justify the misguided foreign policy of the\n>> West before the war. It is evident that the West, especially America,\n>> misjudged Hussein drastically. But once Hussein invaded Kuwait and \n>> threatened to militarily corner a significant portion of the world\'s\n>> oil supply, he had to be stopped.\n> \n> Oh, I see. So we can overlook his using chemical weapons on thousands of\n> people, but if he threatens your right to drive a huge gas-guzzling car,\n> well, the man\'s gotta go.\n\nActually, it was the fact that both situations existed that prompted US\nand allied action. If some back-water country took over some other\nback-water country, we probably wouldn\'t intervene. Not that we don\'t\ncare, but we can\'t be the world\'s policman. Or if a coup had occured\nin Kuwait (instead of an invasion), then we still wouldn\'t have acted\nbecause there would not have been the imminent danger perceived to\nSaudi Arabia. But the combination of the two, an unprovoked invasion\nby a genocidal tyrant AND the potential danger to the West\'s oil \ninterests, caused us to take action.\n\n> \n> [ I\'ve moved a paragraph from here to later on ]\n> \n\n[...]\n>> \n>> If we hadn\'t intervened, allowing Hussein to keep Kuwait, then it would\n>> have been appeasement.\n> \n> Right. But did you ever hear anyone advocate such a course of action? Or\n> are you just setting up a strawman?\n> \n\nI\'m not setting up a strawman at all. If you want to argue against the\nwar, then the only logical alternative was to allow Hussein to keep\nKuwait. Diplomatic alternatives, including sanctions, were ineffective.\n\n>>>> I guess we\n>>>> shouldn\'t have fought WW2 either -- just think of all those innocent\n>>>> German civilians killed in Dresden and Hamburg.\n>>> \n>>> Yes, do. Germans are human too, you know.\n>> \n>> Sure. What was truly unfortunate was that they followed Hitler in\n>> his grandiose quest for a "Thousand Year Reich". The consequences\n>> stemmed from that.\n> \n> Translation: "They were asking for it".\n> \nWell, in a sense, yes. They probably had no idea of what end Hitler\nwould lead their nation to.\n\n> But what about those who didn\'t support Hitler\'s dreams of conquest? It\'s\n> not as if they democratically voted for all his policies. The NSDAP got 43%\n> in the elections of 1933, and that was the last chance the German people got\n> to vote on the matter.\n\nThey suffered along with the rest. Why does this bother you so much?\nThe world is full of evil, and circumstances are not perfect. Many\ninnocents suffer due to the wrongful actions of others. It it regretable,\nbut that\'s The-Way-It-Is. There are no perfect solutions.\n\n[...]\n>>> \n>>> I look forward to hearing your incisive comments about East Timor and\n>>> Tibet.\n>>\n>> What should I say about them? Anything in particular?\n> \n> The people of East Timor are still being killed by a dictatorship that\n> invaded their country. Hell, even Western journalists have been killed. All\n> this was happening before the Gulf War. Why didn\'t we send in the bombers to\n> East Timor? Why aren\'t we sending in the bombers NOW?\n\nProbably because we\'re not the saviors of the world. We can\'t police each\nand every country that decides to self-destruct or invade another. Nor\nare we in a strategic position to get relief to Tibet, East Timor, or\nsome other places.\n> \n> [ Here\'s that paragraph I moved ]\n> \n>>> What\'s your intent? To sound like a Loving Christian? Well, you aren\'t\n>>> doing a very good job of it.\n>> \n>> Well, it\'s not very "loving" to allow a Hussein or a Hitler to gobble up\n>> nearby countries and keep them. Or to allow them to continue with mass\n>> slaughter of certain peoples under their dominion. So, I\'d have to\n>> say yes, stopping Hussein was the most "loving" thing to do for the\n>> most people involved once he set his mind on military conquest.\n> \n> The Chinese government has a policy of mandatory abortion and sterilization\n> of Tibetans. Tibetan people are rounded up, tortured, and executed. Amnesty\n> International recently reported that torture is still widespread in China.\n> \n> Why aren\'t we stopping them? In fact, why are we actively sucking up to them\n> by trading freely with them?\n\nTell me how we could stop them and I\'ll support it. I, for one, do not\nagree with the present US policy of "sucking up to them" as you put it.\nI agree that it is deplorable.\n\n> \n>>>> And as for poor, poor Rodney King! Did you ever stop and think *why*\n>>>> the jury in the first trial brought back a verdict of "not guilty"?\n>>> \n>>> Yes. Amongst the things I thought were "Hmm, there\'s an awful lot of white\n>>> people in that jury."\n>> \n>> So? It was the *policemen* on trial not Rodney King!!\n> \n> Erm, surely it\'s irrelevant who\'s on trial? Juries are supposed to represent\n> a cross-section of the population.\n\nAre they? Or are they supposed to reflect the population of the locale\nwhere the trial is held? (Normally this is where the crime is committed\nunless one party or the other can convince the judge a change of venue\nis in order.) I\'m not an expert on California law, or even US law, but\nit seems that this is the way the system is set up. You can criticize\nthe system, but let\'s not have unfounded allegations of racial \nprejudice thrown around.\n\n> \n>> And under American law they deserved a jury of *their* peers!\n> \n> You are saying that black people are not the peers of white people?\n\nNo, not at all. The point is that the fact that there were no blacks\non the first jury and that Rodney King is black is totally irrelevant.\n\n> \n>> This point (of allegedly racial motivations) is really shallow.\n> \n> This idea of people only being tried before a jury of people just like them\n> is really stupid. Should the Nuremburg trials have had a jury entirely made\n> up of Nazis?\n\nGermans, perhaps. "Peers" doesn\'t mean "those who do the same thing",\nlike having murderers judge murderers. It means "having people from\nthe same station in life", presumably because they are in a better\nposition to understand the defendent\'s motivation(s).\n\n> \n>>>> Those who have been foaming at the mouth for the blood of those\n>>>> policemen certainly have looked no further than the video tape.\n>>>> But the jury looked at *all* the evidence, evidence which you and I\n>>>> have not seen.\n>>> \n>>> When I see a bunch of policemen beating someone who\'s lying defenceless on\n>>> the ground, it\'s rather hard to imagine what this other evidence might have\n>>> been.\n>> \n>> So? It\'s "hard to imagine"? So when has Argument from Incredulity\n>> gained acceptance from the revered author of "Constructing a Logical\n>> Argument"?\n> \n> We\'re not talking about a logical argument. We\'re talking about a court of\n> law. As the FAQ points out, some fallacious arguments are not viewed as\n> fallacies in a court of law.\n\nOK, granted. However, you are using this reasoning as part of *your*\nlogical argument in this discussion. This is not a court of law.\n\n> \n>> If the facts as the news commentators presented them are true, then\n>> I feel the "not guilty" verdict was a reasonable one.\n> \n> Were you not talking earlier about the bias of the liberal media conspiracy?\n> \nThe media is not totally monolithic. Even though there is a prevailing\nliberal bias, programs such as the MacNeil-Lehrer News Hour try to give\na balanced and fair reporting of the news. There are even conservative\nsources out there if you know where to look. (Hurrah for Rush!)\n\nBTW, I never used the word "conspiracy". I don\'t accept (without *far*\nmore evidence) theories that there is some all-pervading liberal\nconspiracy attempting to take over all news sources.\n\n>>> "Thou shalt not kill... unless thou hast a pretty good reason for killing,\n>>> in which case thou shalt kill, and also kill anyone who gets in the way,\n>>> as unfortunately it cannot be helped."\n>>> -- Jim Brown Bible for Loving Christians\n>> \n>> Thanks mathew, I like the quote. Pretty funny actually. (I\'m a \n>> Monty Python fan, you know. Kind of seems in that vein.)\n>> \n>> Of course, oversimplifying any moral argument can make it seem\n>> contradictory. But then, you know that already.\n> \n> Ha ha, only serious.\n> \n> I, an atheist, am arguing against killing innocent people.\n> \n> You, a supposed Christian, are arguing that it\'s OK to kill innocent people\n> so long as you get some guilty ones as well.\n\nHardly. I didn\'t say that it\'s a Good Thing [tm] to kill innocent people\nif the end is just. Unfortunately, we don\'t live in a perfect world and\nthere are no perfect solutions. If one is going to resist tyranny, then\ninnocent people on both sides are going to suffer and die. I didn\'t say\nit is OK -- it is unfortunate, but sometimes necessary.\n\n> \n> I, a moral relativist, am arguing that saturation bombing of German cities at\n> the end of World War II was (as far as I can see) an evil and unnecessary act.\n\nI would agree that it was evil in the sense that it caused much pain\nand suffering. I\'m not so sure that it was unnecessary as you say. That\nconclusion can only be arrived at by evaluating all the factors involved.\nAnd perhaps it *was* unnecessary as (let\'s say) we now know. That doesn\'t\nmean that those who had to make the decision to bomb didn\'t see it as\nbeing necessary. Rarely can one have full known of the consequences of\nan action before making a decision. At the time it may have seemed\nnecessary enough to go ahead with it.\n\nBut don\'t assume that I feel the bombing was *morally* justified -- I\ndon\'t! I just don\'t condemn those who had to make a difficult\ndecision under difficult circumstances.\n\n> \n> You, having criticised moral relativism in the past, are now arguing that I am\n> in no position to judge the morality of allied actions at the end of the\n> War. \n\nYou certainly are not in such a position if you are a moral relativist.\nI, as an absolutist, am in a position to judge, but I defer judgment.\n\n> You are arguing that the actions need to be assessed in the particular\n> context of the time, and that they might have been moral then but not moral\n> now.\n\nWrong. They were neither moral then nor now. They seemed necessary to\nthose making the decisions to bring a quick end to the war. I simply\nrefuse to condemn them for their decision.\n> \n> Where\'s your Christian love? Where\'s your absolute morality? Oh, how quick\n> you are to discard them when it suits you. As Ivan Stang would say, "Jesus\n> would puke!"\n\nOne day I will stand before Jesus and give account of every word and action;\neven this discourse in this forum. I understand the full ramifications of\nthat, and I am prepared to do so. I don\'t believe that you can make the\nsame claim.\n\n> \n> mathew\n\nAnd BTW, the reason I brought up the blanket-bombing in Germany was\nbecause you were bemoaning the Iraqi civilian casualties as being \n"so deplorable". Yet blanket bombing was instituted because bombing\nwasn\'t accurate enough to hit industrial/military targets in a\ndecisive way by any other method at that time. But in the Gulf War,\nprecision bombing was the norm. So the point was, why make a big\nstink about the relatively few civilian casualties that resulted\n*in spite of* precision bombing, when so many more civilians\n(proportionately and quantitatively) died under the blanket bombing\nin WW2? Even with precision bombing, mistakes happen and some\ncivilians suffer. But less civilians suffered in this war than\nany other iany other in history! Many Iraqi civilians went about their lives\nwith minimal interference from the allied air raids. The stories\nof "hundreds of thousands" of Iraqi civilian dead is just plain bunk.\nYes, bunk. The US lost 230,000 servicemen in WW2 over four years\nand the majority of them were directly involved in fighting! But \nwe are expected to swallow that "hundreds of thousands" of \n*civilian* Iraqis died in a war lasting about 2 months! And with \nthe Allies using the most precise bombs ever created at that! \nWhat hogwash. If "hundreds of thousands" of Iraqi civilians died, \nit was due to actions Hussein took on his own people, not due to \nthe Allied bombing.\n\nRegards,\n\nJim B.\n\n\n',
"From: bobbe@vice.ICO.TEK.COM (Robert Beauchaine)\nSubject: Re: thoughts on christians\nOrganization: Tektronix Inc., Beaverton, Or.\nLines: 19\n\nIn article <ofnWyG600WB699voA=@andrew.cmu.edu> pl1u+@andrew.cmu.edu (Patrick C Leger) writes:\n>EVER HEAR OF\n>BAPTISM AT BIRTH? If that isn't preying on the young, I don't know what\n>is...\n>\n \n No, that's praying on the young. Preying on the young comes\n later, when the bright eyed little altar boy finds out what the\n priest really wears under that chasible.\n\n\n/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\ \n\nBob Beauchaine bobbe@vice.ICO.TEK.COM \n\nThey said that Queens could stay, they blew the Bronx away,\nand sank Manhattan out at sea.\n\n^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^\n",
"From: rcomg@melomys.co.rmit.oz.AU (Mark Gregory)\nSubject: AVI file format?\nSummary: AVI file format?\nKeywords: AVI file format?\nOrganization: Royal Melbourne Institute of Technology\nLines: 18\nNNTP-Posting-Host: melomys.cse.rmit.edu.au\n\n\nHi,\n\twould someone please email the new AVI file\n\tformat. I'm sure that many people would \nlike to know what it is exactly.\n\nThank you\n\n\nMark Gregory Lecturer m.gregory@rmit.edu.au PH(03)6603243 FAX(03)6621060\nRoyal Melbourne Institute of Technology,\nDepartment of Communication and Electronic Engineering,\nP.O. Box 2476V, Melbourne, Victoria, 3001. AUSTRALIA.\n--\nMark Gregory Lecturer m.gregory@rmit.edu.au PH(03)6603243 FAX(03)6621060\nRoyal Melbourne Institute of Technology,\nDepartment of Communication and Electronic Engineering,\nP.O. Box 2476V, Melbourne, Victoria, 3001. AUSTRALIA.\n",
'From: jimh@carson.u.washington.edu (James Hogan)\nSubject: Re: Yet more Rushdie [Re: ISLAMIC LAW]\nKeywords: slander calumny\nOrganization: University of Washington, Seattle\nLines: 60\nNNTP-Posting-Host: carson.u.washington.edu\n\nIn article <1993Apr16.222525.16024@bnr.ca> (Rashid) writes:\n>In article <1993Apr16.171722.159590@zeus.calpoly.edu>,\n>jmunch@hertz.elee.calpoly.edu (John Munch) wrote:\n>> \n>> In article <1993Apr15.212943.15118@bnr.ca> (Rashid) writes:\n>> >P.S. I\'m not sure about this but I think the charge of "shatim" also\n>> >applies to Rushdie and may be encompassed under the umbrella\n>> >of the "fasad" ruling.\n>> \n>> Please define the words "shatim" and "fasad" before you use them again.\n>\n>My apologies. "Shatim", I believe, refers to slandering or spreading\n>slander and lies about the Prophets(a.s) - any of the Prophets.\n\nBasically, any prophet I\'ve ever dealt with has either been busy \nhawking stolen merchandise or selling swampland house lots in \nFlorida. Then you hear all the stories of sexual abuse by prophets\nand how the families of victims were paid to keep quiet about it.\n\n>It\'s a kind of willful caulmny and "cursing" that\'s indicated by the\n>word. This is the best explanation I can come up with off the top\n>of my head - I\'ll try and look up a more technical definition when I\n>have the time.\n\nNever mind that, but let me tell you about this Chevelle I bought \nfrom this dude (you guessed it, a prophet) named Mohammed. I\'ve\ngot the car for like two days when the tranny kicks, then Manny, \nmy mechanic, tells me it was loaded with sawdust! Take a guess\nwhether "Mohammed" was anywhere to be found. I don\'t think so.\n\n>\n>"Fasad" is a little more difficult to describe. Again, this is not\n>a technical definition - I\'ll try and get that later. Literally,\n\nOh, Mohammed!\n\n>the word "fasad" means mischief. But it\'s a mischief on the order of\n>magnitude indicated by the word "corruption". It\'s when someone who\n>is doing something wrong to begin with, seeks to escalate the hurt,\n\nYeah, you, Mohammed!\n\n>disorder, concern, harm etc. (the mischief) initially caused by their \n>actions. The "wrong" is specifically related to attacks against\n>"God and His Messenger" and mischief, corruption, disorder etc.\n\nYou slimy mass of pond scum!\n\n>resulting from that. The attack need not be a physical attack and there\n>are different levels of penalty proscribed, depending on the extent\n>of the mischief and whether the person or persons sought to \n>"make hay" of the situation. The severest punishment is death.\n\nYeah, right! You\'re the one should be watching your butt. You and\nyour buddy Allah. The stereo he sold me croaked after two days.\nYour ass is grass!\n\nJim\n\nYeah, that\'s right, Jim.\n',
'From: alastair@farli.otago.ac.nz (Alastair Thomson)\nSubject: Does \'Just/justifiable War\' exist?\nOrganization: University of Otago\nLines: 107\n\nHi there netters,\nI have a question I would very much like to see some discussion on:\nIs there such a thing as a \'justifible\' war? \n\nWhat I would love to see it some basis from scripture for either: "All war \nis wrong", or "Some war is justifiable". \n\nTo get things started I would like to outline why I am asking the \nquestion. In my high school days I had been quite involved in the the New \nZealand Cadet Forces (This is a bit like ROTC from what I understand of \nit, but with a lot more emphasis on fun than military career training). \nThrough this I became extremely enamoured of flying, have become involved \nin the sport of gliding, and have a great interest in military aviation \nhardware as the very best a \'real\' flyer could ask for. My favourite \ncomputer games are the accurate simulations of military aircraft, both \npast and present. \n\nI became a Christian about 10 years ago, and at the time rejected all \nmilitary activity as immoral. For me, all war was in complete opposition \nto God\'s commandments to love one another, especially one\'s enemies.\n\nDuring the war in Iraq, I found myself with great excitement listening to \nthe reports of the effectiveness of the the attacks using the aviation \ntechnology I so admire - The F117A \'Stealh\' bomber, the F14, F15 and F16 \nstrike aircraft, etc. After the war concluded I began to really enjoy \nsimulations based around this conflict - Great to go and bomb Saddam\'s \nbio-weapons plants in an F117A on my computer, or shoot down some of his \nMig\'s in an F16. The simulation of the death of people was a wonderful \ngame. I imagine the real pilots view the real thing in much the same way. \nOne only has to look at the language used to see that the personal impact \nof war is ignored: A building containing people, or an aircraft flown by a \npilot is simply a \'target\'. Dead civilians are \'collateral damage\'. These \neuphanisms are a way of removing the reality of war from the people whose \nsupport are necessary for the continued waging of war - One only has to \nlook at Vietnam to see how important public opinion is.\n\nNow we see troops sponsored by the United Nations entering Somalia, and \nthe prospect of military intervention in the Muslim/Croat/Serb conflict in \nthe former Yugoslavia. My revulsion in particular to the siege of \nSarajevo, and in the last few days of (sorry \'bout spelling) Sebrenitsa, \nhas caused me to rethink where I stand on \'justifiable\' war.\n\nI will list several wars in the last 50 years I can look at each, and say \n- Yes this may have been justifible, this may not. These are simply my gut \nreactions to each - In many cases with the benefit of the impartiality \nhistory brings. Let me go through a few and state some of my reasons for \nmy reaction - I am not a historian, so excuse any historical blunders, I \nam working from popular history as it is known in New Zealand.\n\n1. The Second World War\n\t- Murder of Jews - Hitler had to be stopped.\n\t- Massive civilian casualties on both sides \n\t\t- Dresden, Hiroshima/Nagasaki\n\t- Probably justifiable.\n\n2. Korean war\n\t- Political expansionism by North Korea, basically\n\t communism vs. capitalism.\n\t- Probably not justifiable.\n\n3. Vietnam\n\t- As above, worsened by US involvement.\n\n4. Vietnamese invasion of Cambodia.\n\t- Genocide by Khmer Rouge.\n\t- Probably justifiable.\n\n5. Iraq (Desert Storm)\n\t- Political expansionism, threat to world oil supply\n\t- Other factors such as genocide.\n\t- Not sure, but probably justifiable\n\n6. A future involvement in Bosnia\n\t- Genocide - so called \'Ethnic Cleansing\'\n\t- Emotive - much TV coverage of atrocities and civilian casualties.\n\t- Probably justifiable\n\n7. Possible future use of nuclear weapons - tactical or strategic, \nsomewhere in the world by the US in response to someone else - e.g. Libya \nor Israel.\n\t- My feelings in this are simple\n\t- Nuclear war/weapons are abhorrent\n\t- I love the New Zealand government\'s stand on banning all nuclear\n\t armed or powered warships from NZ port.\n\t- Never justifiable.\n\nThese are my own views, I have looked at scripture, and I am confused. I \nwould appreciate others view, particularly those based on scripture. I \n*don\'t* want a - Naaahh, yer wrong - I think answers 8-).\n\nThanks for your help.\n\n==========================================================================\n |\nAlastair Thomson, | Phone +64-3-479-8347\nChief Programmer, | Fax +64-3-479-8529\nThe Black Albatross Porject, |\nUniversity of Otago, |\nDepartment of Computer Science, | e-mail alastair@farli.otago.ac.nz\nP.O. Box 56 | athomson@otago.ac.nz\nDunedin | NeXTmail Welcome\nNew Zealand |\n \n "God loved the world so much, that he gave us His Son, to die in \n our place, so that we may have eternal life" John 3:16, paraphrase\n\n==========================================================================\n',
"From: will@futon.webo.dg.com (Will Taber)\nSubject: [soc.religion.christian] Re: The arrogance of Christians\nLines: 50\n\nIn a previous message aa888@freenet.carleton.ca (Mark Baker) writes:\n\n>If I don't think my belief is right and everyone else's belief is wrong,\n>then I don't have a belief. This is simply what belief means.\n\n [More stuff deleted]\n\nThis seems to be a pretty arogant definition of belief. My beliefs\nare those things which I find to be true based on my experience of the\nworld. This experience includes study of things that I may not have\nexperienced directly. But even then, I can only understand the\nstudies to the extent to which I can relate what I study back to what\nI have experienced.\n\nWhich means that by beliefs about God are directly related to my\nexperience of God. Having experienced God, I try to make sense of\nthat experience. I study religion and read the Bible. I find things\nthat echo what I have already experienced. Out of this I build my\nbeliefs. I also find things that don't match my experience. That\ndoesn't make them false. They just don't match my experience. Maybe\nI will understand that stuff later. I don't know. Maybe all of my\nbeliefs are wrong. I can change my beliefs.\n\nIf someone else has beliefs that are different from mine, so what.\nNeither of us are necessarily wrong. Someone else is making sense out\nof a different set of experiences. Even though we have different\nexplanations and beliefs, if we talk we might even discover that the\nunderlying experiences are similar.\n\nSome people approach religion as a truth that can only exist in one\nform, and usually has a single revelation. The more dogmatic and\ninflexible the belief system, the more arrogant it will appear to an\noutsider. There is another approach possible, however. God is a\nmystery. I am trying to solve the mystery, so I look at the evidence\navailable to me. I try to arrive at the best understanding that I can\nbased on the evidence. New evidence may cause me to change my\nunderstanding. When I encounter someone with a different belief than\nmy own, it isn't a threat, it is an opportunity to perhaps discover\nsomething new about this mystery I can never fully comprehend.\n\nPeace\nWill Taber\n---------------------------------------------------------------------------- \n| William Taber | Will_Taber@dg.com \t | Any opinions expressed |\n| Data General Corp. | will@futon.webo.dg.com | are mine alone and may |\n| Westboro, Mass. 01580 | | change without notice. |\n|---------------------------------------------------------------------------\n| When all your dreams are laid to rest, you can get what's second best, |\n|\tBut it's hard to get enough.\t\tDavid Wilcox |\n----------------------------------------------------------------------------\n",
'From: mathew <mathew@mantis.co.uk>\nSubject: Alt.Atheism FAQ: Introduction to Atheism\nSummary: Please read this file before posting to alt.atheism\nKeywords: FAQ, atheism\nExpires: Thu, 6 May 1993 12:22:45 GMT\nDistribution: world\nOrganization: Mantis Consultants, Cambridge. UK.\nSupersedes: <19930308134439@mantis.co.uk>\nLines: 646\n\nArchive-name: atheism/introduction\nAlt-atheism-archive-name: introduction\nLast-modified: 5 April 1993\nVersion: 1.2\n\n-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----\n\n An Introduction to Atheism\n by mathew <mathew@mantis.co.uk>\n\nThis article attempts to provide a general introduction to atheism. Whilst I\nhave tried to be as neutral as possible regarding contentious issues, you\nshould always remember that this document represents only one viewpoint. I\nwould encourage you to read widely and draw your own conclusions; some\nrelevant books are listed in a companion article.\n\nTo provide a sense of cohesion and progression, I have presented this article\nas an imaginary conversation between an atheist and a theist. All the\nquestions asked by the imaginary theist are questions which have been cropped\nup repeatedly on alt.atheism since the newsgroup was created. Some other\nfrequently asked questions are answered in a companion article.\n\nPlease note that this article is arguably slanted towards answering questions\nposed from a Christian viewpoint. This is because the FAQ files reflect\nquestions which have actually been asked, and it is predominantly Christians\nwho proselytize on alt.atheism.\n\nSo when I talk of religion, I am talking primarily about religions such as\nChristianity, Judaism and Islam, which involve some sort of superhuman divine\nbeing. Much of the discussion will apply to other religions, but some of it\nmay not.\n\n"What is atheism?"\n\nAtheism is characterized by an absence of belief in the existence of God.\nSome atheists go further, and believe that God does not exist. The former is\noften referred to as the "weak atheist" position, and the latter as "strong\natheism".\n\nIt is important to note the difference between these two positions. "Weak\natheism" is simple scepticism; disbelief in the existence of God. "Strong\natheism" is a positive belief that God does not exist. Please do not\nfall into the trap of assuming that all atheists are "strong atheists".\n\nSome atheists believe in the non-existence of all Gods; others limit their\natheism to specific Gods, such as the Christian God, rather than making\nflat-out denials.\n\n"But isn\'t disbelieving in God the same thing as believing he doesn\'t exist?"\n\nDefinitely not. Disbelief in a proposition means that one does not believe\nit to be true. Not believing that something is true is not equivalent to\nbelieving that it is false; one may simply have no idea whether it is true or\nnot. Which brings us to agnosticism.\n\n"What is agnosticism then?"\n\nThe term \'agnosticism\' was coined by Professor Huxley at a meeting of the\nMetaphysical Society in 1876. He defined an agnostic as someone who\ndisclaimed ("strong") atheism and believed that the ultimate origin of things\nmust be some cause unknown and unknowable.\n\nThus an agnostic is someone who believes that we do not and cannot know for\nsure whether God exists.\n\nWords are slippery things, and language is inexact. Beware of assuming that\nyou can work out someone\'s philosophical point of view simply from the fact\nthat she calls herself an atheist or an agnostic. For example, many people\nuse agnosticism to mean "weak atheism", and use the word "atheism" only when\nreferring to "strong atheism".\n\nBeware also that because the word "atheist" has so many shades of meaning, it\nis very difficult to generalize about atheists. About all you can say for\nsure is that atheists don\'t believe in God. For example, it certainly isn\'t\nthe case that all atheists believe that science is the best way to find out\nabout the universe.\n\n"So what is the philosophical justification or basis for atheism?"\n\nThere are many philosophical justifications for atheism. To find out why a\nparticular person chooses to be an atheist, it\'s best to ask her.\n\nMany atheists feel that the idea of God as presented by the major religions\nis essentially self-contradictory, and that it is logically impossible that\nsuch a God could exist. Others are atheists through scepticism, because they\nsee no evidence that God exists.\n\n"But isn\'t it impossible to prove the non-existence of something?"\n\nThere are many counter-examples to such a statement. For example, it is\nquite simple to prove that there does not exist a prime number larger than\nall other prime numbers. Of course, this deals with well-defined objects\nobeying well-defined rules. Whether Gods or universes are similarly\nwell-defined is a matter for debate.\n\nHowever, assuming for the moment that the existence of a God is not provably\nimpossible, there are still subtle reasons for assuming the non-existence of\nGod. If we assume that something does not exist, it is always possible to\nshow that this assumption is invalid by finding a single counter-example.\n\nIf on the other hand we assume that something does exist, and if the thing in\nquestion is not provably impossible, showing that the assumption is invalid\nmay require an exhaustive search of all possible places where such a thing\nmight be found, to show that it isn\'t there. Such an exhaustive search is\noften impractical or impossible. There is no such problem with largest\nprimes, because we can prove that they don\'t exist.\n\nTherefore it is generally accepted that we must assume things do not exist\nunless we have evidence that they do. Even theists follow this rule most of\nthe time; they don\'t believe in unicorns, even though they can\'t conclusively\nprove that no unicorns exist anywhere.\n\nTo assume that God exists is to make an assumption which probably cannot be\ntested. We cannot make an exhaustive search of everywhere God might be to\nprove that he doesn\'t exist anywhere. So the sceptical atheist assumes by\ndefault that God does not exist, since that is an assumption we can test.\n\nThose who profess strong atheism usually do not claim that no sort of God\nexists; instead, they generally restrict their claims so as to cover\nvarieties of God described by followers of various religions. So whilst it\nmay be impossible to prove conclusively that no God exists, it may be\npossible to prove that (say) a God as described by a particular religious\nbook does not exist. It may even be possible to prove that no God described\nby any present-day religion exists.\n\nIn practice, believing that no God described by any religion exists is very\nclose to believing that no God exists. However, it is sufficiently different\nthat counter-arguments based on the impossibility of disproving every kind of\nGod are not really applicable.\n\n"But what if God is essentially non-detectable?"\n\nIf God interacts with our universe in any way, the effects of his interaction\nmust be measurable. Hence his interaction with our universe must be\ndetectable.\n\nIf God is essentially non-detectable, it must therefore be the case that he\ndoes not interact with our universe in any way. Many atheists would argue\nthat if God does not interact with our universe at all, it is of no\nimportance whether he exists or not.\n\nIf the Bible is to be believed, God was easily detectable by the Israelites.\nSurely he should still be detectable today?\n\nNote that I am not demanding that God interact in a scientifically\nverifiable, physical way. It must surely be possible to perceive some\neffect caused by his presence, though; otherwise, how can I distinguish him\nfrom all the other things that don\'t exist?\n\n"OK, you may think there\'s a philosophical justification for atheism, but\n isn\'t it still a religious belief?"\n\nOne of the most common pastimes in philosophical discussion is "the\nredefinition game". The cynical view of this game is as follows:\n\nPerson A begins by making a contentious statement. When person B points out\nthat it can\'t be true, person A gradually re-defines the words he used in the\nstatement until he arrives at something person B is prepared to accept. He\nthen records the statement, along with the fact that person B has agreed to\nit, and continues. Eventually A uses the statement as an "agreed fact", but\nuses his original definitions of all the words in it rather than the obscure\nredefinitions originally needed to get B to agree to it. Rather than be seen\nto be apparently inconsistent, B will tend to play along.\n\nThe point of this digression is that the answer to the question "Isn\'t\natheism a religious belief?" depends crucially upon what is meant by\n"religious". "Religion" is generally characterized by belief in a superhuman\ncontrolling power -- especially in some sort of God -- and by faith and\nworship.\n\n[ It\'s worth pointing out in passing that some varieties of Buddhism are not\n "religion" according to such a definition. ]\n\nAtheism is certainly not a belief in any sort of superhuman power, nor is it\ncategorized by worship in any meaningful sense. Widening the definition of\n"religious" to encompass atheism tends to result in many other aspects of\nhuman behaviour suddenly becoming classed as "religious" as well -- such as\nscience, politics, and watching TV.\n\n"OK, so it\'s not a religion. But surely belief in atheism (or science) is\n still just an act of faith, like religion is?"\n\nFirstly, it\'s not entirely clear that sceptical atheism is something one\nactually believes in.\n\nSecondly, it is necessary to adopt a number of core beliefs or assumptions to\nmake some sort of sense out of the sensory data we experience. Most atheists\ntry to adopt as few core beliefs as possible; and even those are subject to\nquestioning if experience throws them into doubt.\n\nScience has a number of core assumptions. For example, it is generally\nassumed that the laws of physics are the same for all observers. These are\nthe sort of core assumptions atheists make. If such basic ideas are called\n"acts of faith", then almost everything we know must be said to be based on\nacts of faith, and the term loses its meaning.\n\nFaith is more often used to refer to complete, certain belief in something.\nAccording to such a definition, atheism and science are certainly not acts of\nfaith. Of course, individual atheists or scientists can be as dogmatic as\nreligious followers when claiming that something is "certain". This is not a\ngeneral tendency, however; there are many atheists who would be reluctant to\nstate with certainty that the universe exists.\n\nFaith is also used to refer to belief without supporting evidence or proof.\nSceptical atheism certainly doesn\'t fit that definition, as sceptical atheism\nhas no beliefs. Strong atheism is closer, but still doesn\'t really match, as\neven the most dogmatic atheist will tend to refer to experimental data (or\nthe lack of it) when asserting that God does not exist.\n\n"If atheism is not religious, surely it\'s anti-religious?"\n\nIt is an unfortunate human tendency to label everyone as either "for" or\n"against", "friend" or "enemy". The truth is not so clear-cut.\n\nAtheism is the position that runs logically counter to theism; in that sense,\nit can be said to be "anti-religion". However, when religious believers\nspeak of atheists being "anti-religious" they usually mean that the atheists\nhave some sort of antipathy or hatred towards theists.\n\nThis categorization of atheists as hostile towards religion is quite unfair.\nAtheist attitudes towards theists in fact cover a broad spectrum.\n\nMost atheists take a "live and let live" attitude. Unless questioned, they\nwill not usually mention their atheism, except perhaps to close friends. Of\ncourse, this may be in part because atheism is not "socially acceptable" in\nmany countries.\n\nA few atheists are quite anti-religious, and may even try to "convert" others\nwhen possible. Historically, such anti-religious atheists have made little\nimpact on society outside the Eastern Bloc countries.\n\n(To digress slightly: the Soviet Union was originally dedicated to separation\nof church and state, just like the USA. Soviet citizens were legally free to\nworship as they wished. The institution of "state atheism" came about when\nStalin took control of the Soviet Union and tried to destroy the churches in\norder to gain complete power over the population.)\n\nSome atheists are quite vocal about their beliefs, but only where they see\nreligion encroaching on matters which are not its business -- for example,\nthe government of the USA. Such individuals are usually concerned that\nchurch and state should remain separate.\n\n"But if you don\'t allow religion to have a say in the running of the state,\n surely that\'s the same as state atheism?"\n\nThe principle of the separation of church and state is that the state shall\nnot legislate concerning matters of religious belief. In particular, it\nmeans not only that the state cannot promote one religion at the expense of\nanother, but also that it cannot promote any belief which is religious in\nnature.\n\nReligions can still have a say in discussion of purely secular matters. For\nexample, religious believers have historically been responsible for\nencouraging many political reforms. Even today, many organizations\ncampaigning for an increase in spending on foreign aid are founded as\nreligious campaigns. So long as they campaign concerning secular matters,\nand so long as they do not discriminate on religious grounds, most atheists\nare quite happy to see them have their say.\n\n"What about prayer in schools? If there\'s no God, why do you care if people\n pray?"\n\nBecause people who do pray are voters and lawmakers, and tend to do things\nthat those who don\'t pray can\'t just ignore. Also, Christian prayer in\nschools is intimidating to non-Christians, even if they are told that they\nneed not join in. The diversity of religious and non-religious belief means\nthat it is impossible to formulate a meaningful prayer that will be\nacceptable to all those present at any public event.\n\nAlso, non-prayers tend to have friends and family who pray. It is reasonable\nto care about friends and family wasting their time, even without other\nmotives.\n\n"You mentioned Christians who campaign for increased foreign aid. What about\n atheists? Why aren\'t there any atheist charities or hospitals? Don\'t\n atheists object to the religious charities?"\n\nThere are many charities without religious purpose that atheists can\ncontribute to. Some atheists contribute to religious charities as well, for\nthe sake of the practical good they do. Some atheists even do voluntary work\nfor charities founded on a theistic basis.\n\nMost atheists seem to feel that atheism isn\'t worth shouting about in\nconnection with charity. To them, atheism is just a simple, obvious everyday\nmatter, and so is charity. Many feel that it\'s somewhat cheap, not to say\nself-righteous, to use simple charity as an excuse to plug a particular set\nof religious beliefs.\n\nTo "weak" atheists, building a hospital to say "I do not believe in God" is a\nrather strange idea; it\'s rather like holding a party to say "Today is not my\nbirthday". Why the fuss? Atheism is rarely evangelical.\n\n"You said atheism isn\'t anti-religious. But is it perhaps a backlash against\n one\'s upbringing, a way of rebelling?"\n\nPerhaps it is, for some. But many people have parents who do not attempt to\nforce any religious (or atheist) ideas upon them, and many of those people\nchoose to call themselves atheists.\n\nIt\'s also doubtless the case that some religious people chose religion as a\nbacklash against an atheist upbringing, as a way of being different. On the\nother hand, many people choose religion as a way of conforming to the\nexpectations of others.\n\nOn the whole, we can\'t conclude much about whether atheism or religion are\nbacklash or conformism; although in general, people have a tendency to go\nalong with a group rather than act or think independently.\n\n"How do atheists differ from religious people?"\n\nThey don\'t believe in God. That\'s all there is to it.\n\nAtheists may listen to heavy metal -- backwards, even -- or they may prefer a\nVerdi Requiem, even if they know the words. They may wear Hawaiian shirts,\nthey may dress all in black, they may even wear orange robes. (Many\nBuddhists lack a belief in any sort of God.) Some atheists even carry a copy\nof the Bible around -- for arguing against, of course!\n\nWhoever you are, the chances are you have met several atheists without\nrealising it. Atheists are usually unexceptional in behaviour and\nappearance.\n\n"Unexceptional? But aren\'t atheists less moral than religious people?"\n\nThat depends. If you define morality as obedience to God, then of course\natheists are less moral as they don\'t obey any God. But usually when one\ntalks of morality, one talks of what is acceptable ("right") and unacceptable\n("wrong") behaviour within society.\n\nHumans are social animals, and to be maximally successful they must\nco-operate with each other. This is a good enough reason to discourage most\natheists from "anti-social" or "immoral" behaviour, purely for the purposes\nof self-preservation.\n\nMany atheists behave in a "moral" or "compassionate" way simply because they\nfeel a natural tendency to empathize with other humans. So why do they care\nwhat happens to others? They don\'t know, they simply are that way.\n\nNaturally, there are some people who behave "immorally" and try to use\natheism to justify their actions. However, there are equally many people who\nbehave "immorally" and then try to use religious beliefs to justify their\nactions. For example:\n\n "Here is a trustworthy saying that deserves full acceptance: Jesus Christ\n came into the world to save sinners... But for that very reason, I was\n shown mercy so that in me... Jesus Christ might display His unlimited\n patience as an example for those who would believe in him and receive\n eternal life. Now to the king eternal, immortal, invisible, the only God,\n be honor and glory forever and ever."\n\nThe above quote is from a statement made to the court on February 17th 1992\nby Jeffrey Dahmer, the notorious cannibal serial killer of Milwaukee,\nWisconsin. It seems that for every atheist mass-murderer, there is a\nreligious mass-murderer. But what of more trivial morality?\n\n A survey conducted by the Roper Organization found that behavior\n deteriorated after "born again" experiences. While only 4% of respondents\n said they had driven intoxicated before being "born again," 12% had done\n so after conversion. Similarly, 5% had used illegal drugs before\n conversion, 9% after. Two percent admitted to engaging in illicit sex\n before salvation; 5% after.\n ["Freethought Today", September 1991, p. 12.]\n\nSo it seems that at best, religion does not have a monopoly on moral\nbehaviour.\n\n"Is there such a thing as atheist morality?"\n\nIf you mean "Is there such a thing as morality for atheists?", then the\nanswer is yes, as explained above. Many atheists have ideas about morality\nwhich are at least as strong as those held by religious people.\n\nIf you mean "Does atheism have a characteristic moral code?", then the answer\nis no. Atheism by itself does not imply anything much about how a person\nwill behave. Most atheists follow many of the same "moral rules" as theists,\nbut for different reasons. Atheists view morality as something created by\nhumans, according to the way humans feel the world \'ought\' to work, rather\nthan seeing it as a set of rules decreed by a supernatural being.\n\n"Then aren\'t atheists just theists who are denying God?"\n\nA study by the Freedom From Religion Foundation found that over 90% of the\natheists who responded became atheists because religion did not work for\nthem. They had found that religious beliefs were fundamentally incompatible\nwith what they observed around them.\n\nAtheists are not unbelievers through ignorance or denial; they are\nunbelievers through choice. The vast majority of them have spent time\nstudying one or more religions, sometimes in very great depth. They have\nmade a careful and considered decision to reject religious beliefs.\n\nThis decision may, of course, be an inevitable consequence of that\nindividual\'s personality. For a naturally sceptical person, the choice\nof atheism is often the only one that makes sense, and hence the only\nchoice that person can honestly make.\n\n"But don\'t atheists want to believe in God?"\n\nAtheists live their lives as though there is nobody watching over them. Many\nof them have no desire to be watched over, no matter how good-natured the\n"Big Brother" figure might be.\n\nSome atheists would like to be able to believe in God -- but so what? Should\none believe things merely because one wants them to be true? The risks of\nsuch an approach should be obvious. Atheists often decide that wanting to\nbelieve something is not enough; there must be evidence for the belief.\n\n"But of course atheists see no evidence for the existence of God -- they are\n unwilling in their souls to see!"\n\nMany, if not most atheists were previously religious. As has been explained\nabove, the vast majority have seriously considered the possibility that God\nexists. Many atheists have spent time in prayer trying to reach God.\n\nOf course, it is true that some atheists lack an open mind; but assuming that\nall atheists are biased and insincere is offensive and closed-minded.\nComments such as "Of course God is there, you just aren\'t looking properly"\nare likely to be viewed as patronizing.\n\nCertainly, if you wish to engage in philosophical debate with atheists it is\nvital that you give them the benefit of the doubt and assume that they are\nbeing sincere if they say that they have searched for God. If you are not\nwilling to believe that they are basically telling the truth, debate is\nfutile.\n\n"Isn\'t the whole of life completely pointless to an atheist?"\n\nMany atheists live a purposeful life. They decide what they think gives\nmeaning to life, and they pursue those goals. They try to make their lives\ncount, not by wishing for eternal life, but by having an influence on other\npeople who will live on. For example, an atheist may dedicate his life to\npolitical reform, in the hope of leaving his mark on history.\n\nIt is a natural human tendency to look for "meaning" or "purpose" in random\nevents. However, it is by no means obvious that "life" is the sort of thing\nthat has a "meaning".\n\nTo put it another way, not everything which looks like a question is actually\na sensible thing to ask. Some atheists believe that asking "What is the\nmeaning of life?" is as silly as asking "What is the meaning of a cup of\ncoffee?". They believe that life has no purpose or meaning, it just is.\n\n"So how do atheists find comfort in time of danger?"\n\nThere are many ways of obtaining comfort; from family, friends, or even pets.\nOr on a less spiritual level, from food or drink or TV.\n\nThat may sound rather an empty and vulnerable way to face danger, but so\nwhat? Should individuals believe in things because they are comforting, or\nshould they face reality no matter how harsh it might be?\n\nIn the end, it\'s a decision for the individual concerned. Most atheists are\nunable to believe something they would not otherwise believe merely because\nit makes them feel comfortable. They put truth before comfort, and consider\nthat if searching for truth sometimes makes them feel unhappy, that\'s just\nhard luck.\n\n"Don\'t atheists worry that they might suddenly be shown to be wrong?"\n\nThe short answer is "No, do you?"\n\nMany atheists have been atheists for years. They have encountered many\narguments and much supposed evidence for the existence of God, but they have\nfound all of it to be invalid or inconclusive.\n\nThousands of years of religious belief haven\'t resulted in any good proof of\nthe existence of God. Atheists therefore tend to feel that they are unlikely\nto be proved wrong in the immediate future, and they stop worrying about it.\n\n"So why should theists question their beliefs? Don\'t the same arguments\n apply?"\n\nNo, because the beliefs being questioned are not similar. Weak atheism is\nthe sceptical "default position" to take; it asserts nothing. Strong atheism\nis a negative belief. Theism is a very strong positive belief.\n\nAtheists sometimes also argue that theists should question their beliefs\nbecause of the very real harm they can cause -- not just to the believers,\nbut to everyone else.\n\n"What sort of harm?"\n\nReligion represents a huge financial and work burden on mankind. It\'s not\njust a matter of religious believers wasting their money on church buildings;\nthink of all the time and effort spent building churches, praying, and so on.\nImagine how that effort could be better spent.\n\nMany theists believe in miracle healing. There have been plenty of instances\nof ill people being "healed" by a priest, ceasing to take the medicines\nprescribed to them by doctors, and dying as a result. Some theists have died\nbecause they have refused blood transfusions on religious grounds.\n\nIt is arguable that the Catholic Church\'s opposition to birth control -- and\ncondoms in particular -- is increasing the problem of overpopulation in many\nthird-world countries and contributing to the spread of AIDS world-wide.\n\nReligious believers have been known to murder their children rather than\nallow their children to become atheists or marry someone of a different\nreligion.\n\n"Those weren\'t REAL believers. They just claimed to be believers as some\n sort of excuse."\n\nWhat makes a real believer? There are so many One True Religions it\'s hard\nto tell. Look at Christianity: there are many competing groups, all\nconvinced that they are the only true Christians. Sometimes they even fight\nand kill each other. How is an atheist supposed to decide who\'s a REAL\nChristian and who isn\'t, when even the major Christian churches like the\nCatholic Church and the Church of England can\'t decide amongst themselves?\n\nIn the end, most atheists take a pragmatic view, and decide that anyone who\ncalls himself a Christian, and uses Christian belief or dogma to justify his\nactions, should be considered a Christian. Maybe some of those Christians\nare just perverting Christian teaching for their own ends -- but surely if\nthe Bible can be so readily used to support un-Christian acts it can\'t be\nmuch of a moral code? If the Bible is the word of God, why couldn\'t he have\nmade it less easy to misinterpret? And how do you know that your beliefs\naren\'t a perversion of what your God intended?\n\nIf there is no single unambiguous interpretation of the Bible, then why\nshould an atheist take one interpretation over another just on your say-so?\nSorry, but if someone claims that he believes in Jesus and that he murdered\nothers because Jesus and the Bible told him to do so, we must call him a\nChristian.\n\n"Obviously those extreme sorts of beliefs should be questioned. But since\n nobody has ever proved that God does not exist, it must be very unlikely\n that more basic religious beliefs, shared by all faiths, are nonsense."\n\nThat does not hold, because as was pointed out at the start of this dialogue,\npositive assertions concerning the existence of entities are inherently much\nharder to disprove than negative ones. Nobody has ever proved that unicorns\ndon\'t exist, but that doesn\'t make it unlikely that they are myths.\n\nIt is therefore much more valid to hold a negative assertion by default than\nit is to hold a positive assertion by default. Of course, "weak" atheists\nwould argue that asserting nothing is better still.\n\n"Well, if atheism\'s so great, why are there so many theists?"\n\nUnfortunately, the popularity of a belief has little to do with how "correct"\nit is, or whether it "works"; consider how many people believe in astrology,\ngraphology, and other pseudo-sciences.\n\nMany atheists feel that it is simply a human weakness to want to believe in\ngods. Certainly in many primitive human societies, religion allows the\npeople to deal with phenomena that they do not adequately understand.\n\nOf course, there\'s more to religion than that. In the industrialized world,\nwe find people believing in religious explanations of phenomena even when\nthere are perfectly adequate natural explanations. Religion may have started\nas a means of attempting to explain the world, but nowadays it serves other\npurposes as well.\n\n"But so many cultures have developed religions. Surely that must say\n something?"\n\nNot really. Most religions are only superficially similar; for example, it\'s\nworth remembering that religions such as Buddhism and Taoism lack any sort of\nconcept of God in the Christian sense.\n\nOf course, most religions are quick to denounce competing religions, so it\'s\nrather odd to use one religion to try and justify another.\n\n"What about all the famous scientists and philosophers who have concluded\n that God exists?"\n\nFor every scientist or philosopher who believes in a god, there is one who\ndoes not. Besides, as has already been pointed out, the truth of a belief is\nnot determined by how many people believe it. Also, it is important to\nrealize that atheists do not view famous scientists or philosophers in the\nsame way that theists view their religious leaders.\n\nA famous scientist is only human; she may be an expert in some fields, but\nwhen she talks about other matters her words carry no special weight. Many\nrespected scientists have made themselves look foolish by speaking on\nsubjects which lie outside their fields of expertise.\n\n"So are you really saying that widespread belief in religion indicates\n nothing?"\n\nNot entirely. It certainly indicates that the religion in question has\nproperties which have helped it so spread so far.\n\nThe theory of memetics talks of "memes" -- sets of ideas which can propagate\nthemselves between human minds, by analogy with genes. Some atheists view\nreligions as sets of particularly successful parasitic memes, which spread by\nencouraging their hosts to convert others. Some memes avoid destruction by\ndiscouraging believers from questioning doctrine, or by using peer pressure\nto keep one-time believers from admitting that they were mistaken. Some\nreligious memes even encourage their hosts to destroy hosts controlled by\nother memes.\n\nOf course, in the memetic view there is no particular virtue associated with\nsuccessful propagation of a meme. Religion is not a good thing because of\nthe number of people who believe it, any more than a disease is a good thing\nbecause of the number of people who have caught it.\n\n"Even if religion is not entirely true, at least it puts across important\n messages. What are the fundamental messages of atheism?"\n\nThere are many important ideas atheists promote. The following are just a\nfew of them; don\'t be surprised to see ideas which are also present in some\nreligions.\n\n There is more to moral behaviour than mindlessly following rules.\n\n Be especially sceptical of positive claims.\n\n If you want your life to have some sort of meaning, it\'s up to you to\n find it.\n\n Search for what is true, even if it makes you uncomfortable.\n\n Make the most of your life, as it\'s probably the only one you\'ll have.\n\n It\'s no good relying on some external power to change you; you must change\n yourself.\n\n Just because something\'s popular doesn\'t mean it\'s good.\n\n If you must assume something, assume something it\'s easy to test.\n\n Don\'t believe things just because you want them to be true.\n\nand finally (and most importantly):\n\n All beliefs should be open to question.\n\nThanks for taking the time to read this article.\n\n\nmathew\n\n-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----\nVersion: 2.2\n\niQCVAgUBK8AjRXzXN+VrOblFAQFSbwP+MHePY4g7ge8Mo5wpsivX+kHYYxMErFAO\n7ltVtMVTu66Nz6sBbPw9QkbjArbY/S2sZ9NF5htdii0R6SsEyPl0R6/9bV9okE/q\nnihqnzXE8pGvLt7tlez4EoeHZjXLEFrdEyPVayT54yQqGb4HARbOEHDcrTe2atmP\nq0Z4hSSPpAU=\n=q2V5\n-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----\n\nFor information about PGP 2.2, send mail to pgpinfo@mantis.co.uk.\nÿ\n',
'From: timmbake@mcl.ucsb.edu (Bake Timmons)\nSubject: Re: Amusing atheists and agnostics\nLines: 29\n\n\nRobert Knowles writes:\n\n>>\n>>My my, there _are_ a few atheists with time on their hands. :)\n>>\n>>OK, first I apologize. I didn\'t bother reading the FAQ first and so fired an\n>>imprecise flame. That was inexcusable.\n>>\n\n>How about the nickname Bake "Flamethrower" Timmons?\n\nSure, but Robert "Koresh-Fetesh" (sic) Knowles seems good, too. :) \n>\n>You weren\'t at the Koresh compound around noon today by any chance, were you?\n>\n>Remember, Koresh "dried" for your sins.\n>\n>And pass that beef jerky. Umm Umm.\n\nThough I wasn\'t there, at least I can rely on you now to keep me posted on what\nwhat he\'s doing.\n\nHave you any other fetishes besides those for beef jerky and David Koresh? \n--\nBake Timmons, III\n\n-- "...there\'s nothing higher, stronger, more wholesome and more useful in life\nthan some good memory..." -- Alyosha in Brothers Karamazov (Dostoevsky)\n',
'From: kmr4@po.CWRU.edu (Keith M. Ryan)\nSubject: Re: The Inimitable Rushdie\nOrganization: Case Western Reserve University\nLines: 20\nNNTP-Posting-Host: b64635.student.cwru.edu\n\nIn article <115686@bu.edu> jaeger@buphy.bu.edu (Gregg Jaeger) writes:\n\n>No, I say religious law applies to those who are categorized as\n>belonging to the religion when event being judged applies. This\n\n\n\tWho does the categorizing?\n\n\t\n--- \n\n " I\'d Cheat on Hillary Too."\n\n John Laws\n Local GOP Reprehensitive\n Extolling "Traditional Family Values."\n\n\n\n\n',
"From: tonyo@pendragon.CNA.TEK.COM (Tony Ozrelic)\nSubject: Need info on cc:Mail file format\nOrganization: Tektronix, Inc., Redmond, Oregon\nLines: 13\n\nI need the file format for cc:Mail file formats - it seems to be PCX-based,\nbut with a twist: only the first page of a multi-page fax will come out\nreadable. The other pages disappear. The format seems to be 'proprietary'.\n\nAnybody got any clues? I have to give my email FAXes to my secretary in\norder to get 'em unscrambled. I want a filter from cc:Mail to .p[nb]m.\n\nCome to think of it, p[nb]m to cc:Mail would be nice too.\n\ntonyo@master.CNA.TEK.COM\n\n\n\n",
"From: scornd7@technet.sg (Tang Chang Thai)\nSubject: Re: InterViews graphics package\nNntp-Posting-Host: solomon.technet.sg\nX-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL9]\nLines: 9\n\nRene S. Dutch student (renes@ecpdsharmony.cern.ch) wrote:\n\n: I'm trying out the C++ graphics package InterViews. Besides the man pages\n: on the classes, I haven't got any documentation. Is there anything else\n: around? Furthermore, can anyone send me a (small!) example program\n: which shows how to use these classes together ? I would be very gratefull...\n\nYou might want to try comp.windows.interviews.\n\n",
'From: mmatusev@radford.vak12ed.edu (Melissa N. Matusevich)\nSubject: Re: Emphysema question\nOrganization: Virginia\'s Public Education Network (Radford)\nLines: 13\n\nThanks for all your assistance. I\'ll see if he can try a\ndifferent brand of patches, although he\'s tried two brands\nalready. Are there more than two?\n\nMelissa\n\n---\n mmatusev@radford.vak12ed.edu\n\n"After a time you may find that having is not so pleasing a thing\nafter all as wanting. It is not logical, but it is often true."\n\nSpock to Stonn\n',
'From: livesey@solntze.wpd.sgi.com (Jon Livesey)\nSubject: Re: <Political Atheists?\nOrganization: sgi\nLines: 15\nDistribution: world\nNNTP-Posting-Host: solntze.wpd.sgi.com\n\nIn article <1ql0ajINN2kj@gap.caltech.edu>, keith@cco.caltech.edu (Keith Allan Schneider) writes:\n|> kmr4@po.CWRU.edu (Keith M. Ryan) writes:\n|> \n|> >>But chimps are almost human...\n|> >Does this mean that Chimps have a moral will?\n|> \n|> Well, chimps must have some system. They live in social groups\n|> as we do, so they must have some "laws" dictating undesired behavior.\n\nAh, the verb "to must". I was warned about that one back\nin Kindergarten.\n\nSo, why "must" they have such laws?\n\njon.\n',
'From: rjs2@po.cwru.edu (Richard J. Szanto)\nSubject: Re: When are two people married in God\'s eyes?\nReply-To: rjs2@po.cwru.edu (Richard J. Szanto)\nOrganization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)\nLines: 27\n\nIn a previous article, randerso@acad1.sahs.uth.tmc.edu (Robert Anderson) says:\n\n>I would like to get your opinions on this: when exactly does an engaged\n>couple become "married" in God\'s eyes? Some say that if the two have\n>publically announced their plans to marry, have made their vows to God, and\n>are unswervingly committed to one another (I realize this is a subjective\n>qualifier) they are married/joined in God\'s sight.\n\nI have discussed this with my girlfriend often. I consider myself married,\nthough legally I am not. Neither of us have been with other people sexually,\nalthough we have been with each other. We did not have sexual relations\nuntil we decided to marry eventually. For financial and distance reasons,\nwe will not be legally married for another year and a half. Until then,\nI consider myself married for life in God\'s eyes. I have faith that we\nhave a strong relationship, and have had for over 4 years, and will be\nfull of joy when we marry in a church. First, however, we must find a\nchurch( we will be living in a new area when we marry, and will need to\nfind a new church community).\n\nAnyway, I feel that if two people commit to marriage before God, they are\nmarried and are bound by that commitment.\n\n-- \n\t\t\t\t\t\t-Rick Szanto\n-Polk Speakers Rock\t\t\t\t-Computer Engineer\n-Mac\'s Suck (Nothing Personal)\t\t\t-Case Western\n-Zeta Psi Rules\t\t\t\t\t-Reserve University\n',
"From: rws2v@uvacs.cs.Virginia.EDU (Richard Stoakley)\nSubject: Need a good concave -> convex polygon algorithm\nOrganization: University of Virginia Computer Science Department\nLines: 6\n\n\tWe need a good concave ->convex polygon conversion routine.\nI've tried a couple without much luck. Please E-mail responses and I\nwill post a summary of any replies. Thank you.\n\nRichard Stoakley\nrws2v@uvacs.cs.Virginia.EDU\n",
'From: Geoffrey_Hansen@mindlink.bc.ca (Geoffrey Hansen)\nSubject: Re: VESA on the Speedstar 24\nOrganization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada\nLines: 12\n\nUsing the VMODE command, all you need to do is type VMODE VESA at the dos\nprompt. VMODE is included with the Speedstar 24. I have used the VESA mode\nfor autodesk animator pro.\n\n--\n <=================================================|\n | geoffrey_hansen@mindlink.bc.ca |\n |=================================================>\n "Inumerable confusions and a feeling of despair invariably emerge\n in periods of great technological and cultural transition."\n Marshall McLuhan\n\n',
'From: erh0362@tesla.njit.edu\nSubject: Mormon beliefs about bastards\nOrganization: New Jersey Institute of Technology\nLines: 14\n\n\n Could anyone enlighten me on how the Mormon church views \nchildren born out of wedlock? In particular I\'m interested to know if any \nstigma is attached to the children as opposed to the parents. I\'m especially \nkeen to learn if there is or is not any prohibition in the Mormon faith on \nbastards entering heaven or having their names entered in the big genealogical \nbook the Mormons keep in Salt Lake City. If this is an issue on which the \n"official" position has changed over time, I\'m interested in learning both old \nand new beliefs. E-mail or posting is fine. All information or pointers are \nappreciated.\n\nElliotte Rusty Harold\t\tDepartment of Mathematics\nelharo@shiva.njit.edu\t\tNew Jersey Institute of Technology\nerh0362@tesla.njit.edu\t\tNewark, NJ 07102\n',
'From: bil@okcforum.osrhe.edu (Bill Conner)\nSubject: Re: some thoughts.\nNntp-Posting-Host: okcforum.osrhe.edu\nOrganization: Okcforum Unix Users Group\nX-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL9]\nLines: 12\n\nJames Felder (spbach@lerc.nasa.gov) wrote:\n\n: Logic alert - argument from incredulity. Just because it is hard for you \n: to believe this doesn\'t mean that it isn\'t true. Liars can be very pursuasive\n: just look at Koresh that you yourself cite.\n\nThis is whole basis of a great many here rejecting the Christian\naccount of things. In the words of St. Madalyn Murrey-O\'Hair, "Face it\nfolks, it\'s just silly ...". Why is it okay to disbelieve because of\nyour incredulity if you admit that it\'s a fallacy?\n\nBill\n',
"From: mary@uicsl.csl.uiuc.edu (Mary E. Allison)\nSubject: Re: Is MSG sensitivity superstition?\nOrganization: Center for Reliable and High-Performance Computing, University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign\nLines: 66\nDistribution: world\nNNTP-Posting-Host: uicsl.csl.uiuc.edu\n\ncarl@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU (Carl J Lydick) writes:\n\n>Of course, bee venom isn't a single chemical. Could be your brother is\n>reacting to a different component than the one that causes anaphylactic shock\n>in other people.\n\n>Similarly, Chinese food isn't just MSG. There are a lot of other\n>ingredients in it. Why, when someone eats something with lots of\n>ingredients they don't normally consume, one of which happens to be\n>MSG, do they immediately conclude that any negative reaction is to\n>the MSG? \n\nARGHHHHHHHHHh\n\nREAD THE MEMOS!!!!\n\nI said that I PERSONALLY had other people order the EXACT SAME FOOD at\nTWO DIFFERENT TIMES from the SAME RESTAURANT and the people that\nordered the food for me did NOT TELL ME which time the MSG was in the\nfood and which time it was not in the food.\n\nONE TIME I HAD A REACTION\n\nONE TIME I DID NOT\n\nTHE REACTION CAME THE TIME THE MSG WAS IN THE FOOD\n\nTHAT WAS THE ONLY DIFFERENCE\n\nSAME RESTAURANT - SAME INGREDIENTS!!!\n\n>Why, when someone eats something with lots of ingredients they don't\n>normally consume, one of which happens to be MSG, do they immediately\n>conclude that any negative reaction is to the MSG? \n\nI eat lots of Chinese food - I LOVE Chinese food. I've just learned\nthe following\n\nIF I get food at one of the restaurants that DOES NOT USE MSG or\n\nIF I prepare the food myself without MSG or \n\nIF I order the food from a restaurant that will hold the MSG (and I\nnever get soup unless it's from a restaurant that cooks without the\nMSG)\n\nI DO NOT GET A REACTION!!!!\n\nOKAY\n\nDO YOU UNDERSTAND!!!!\n\nI GET A REACTION FROM MSG\n\nI DO NOT GET A REACTION WHEN THERE IS NO MSG\n\nIf you're having trouble understand this, please tell me which of the\nwords you do not understand and I'll look them up in the dictionary\nfor you.\n\n--\nThe great secret of successful marriage is to treat all disasters\nas incidents and none of the incidents as disasters. \n -- Harold Nicholson\n\n Mary Allison (mary@uicsl.csl.uiuc.edu) Urbana, Illinois\n",
'From: sieferme@stein.u.washington.edu (Eric Sieferman)\nSubject: Re: some thoughts.\nOrganization: University of Washington, Seattle\nLines: 75\nNNTP-Posting-Host: stein.u.washington.edu\nKeywords: Dan Bissell\n\nIn article <bissda.4.734849678@saturn.wwc.edu> bissda@saturn.wwc.edu (DAN LAWRENCE BISSELL) writes:\n\nIt appears that Walla Walla College will fill the same role in alt.atheist\nthat Allegheny College fills in alt.fan.dan-quayle.\n\n>\tFirst I want to start right out and say that I\'m a Christian. It \n>makes sense to be one. Have any of you read Tony Campollo\'s book- liar, \n>lunatic, or the real thing? (I might be a little off on the title, but he \n>writes the book. Anyway he was part of an effort to destroy Christianity, \n>in the process he became a Christian himself.\n\nConverts to xtianity have this tendency to excessively darken their\npre-xtian past, frequently falsely. Anyone who embarks on an\neffort to "destroy" xtianity is suffering from deep megalomania, a\ndefect which is not cured by religious conversion.\n\n>\tThe arguements he uses I am summing up. The book is about whether \n>Jesus was God or not. I know many of you don\'t believe, but listen to a \n>different perspective for we all have something to gain by listening to what \n>others have to say. \n\nDifferent perspective? DIFFERENT PERSPECTIVE?? BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!\n\n>\tThe book says that Jesus was either a liar, or he was crazy ( a \n>modern day Koresh) or he was actually who he said he was.\n\n(sigh!) Perhaps Big J was just mistaken about some of his claims.\nPerhaps he was normally insightful, but had a few off days. Perhaps\nmany (most?) of the statements attributed to Jesus were not made by\nhim, but were put into his mouth by later authors. Other possibilities\nabound. Surely, someone seriously examining this question could\ncome up with a decent list of possible alternatives, unless the task\nis not serious examination of the question (much less "destroying"\nxtianity) but rather religious salesmanship.\n\n>\tSome reasons why he wouldn\'t be a liar are as follows. Who would \n>die for a lie?\n\nHow many Germans died for Nazism? How many Russians died in the name\nof the proletarian dictatorship? How many Americans died to make the\nworld safe for "democracy". What a silly question!\n\n>Wouldn\'t people be able to tell if he was a liar? People \n>gathered around him and kept doing it, many gathered from hearing or seeing \n>someone who was or had been healed. Call me a fool, but I believe he did \n>heal people. \n\nIs everyone who performs a healing = God?\n\n>\tNiether was he a lunatic. Would more than an entire nation be drawn \n>to someone who was crazy.\n\nIt\'s probably hard to "draw" an entire nation to you unless you \nare crazy.\n\n>Very doubtful, in fact rediculous. For example \n>anyone who is drawn to David Koresh is obviously a fool, logical people see \n>this right away.\n>\tTherefore since he wasn\'t a liar or a lunatic, he must have been the \n>real thing. \n\nAnyone who is convinced by this laughable logic deserves\nto be a xtian.\n\n>\tSome other things to note. He fulfilled loads of prophecies in \n>the psalms, Isaiah and elsewhere in 24 hrs alone. This in his betrayal \n>and Crucifixion. I don\'t have my Bible with me at this moment, next time I \n>write I will use it.\n\nDon\'t bother. Many of the "prophecies" were "fulfilled" only in the\neyes of xtian apologists, who distort the meaning of Isaiah and\nother OT books.\n\n\n\n',
'From: Lars.Jorgensen@p7.syntax.bbs.bad.se (Lars Jorgensen)\nSubject: Externel processes for 3D Studio\nReply-To: Lars.Jorgensen@p7.syntax.bbs.bad.se (Lars Jorgensen)\nDistribution: world\nOrganization: Nr. 5 p} NatR}b \nOD-Comment-To: Internet_Gateway\nLines: 13\n\nTo:All\n\nHi,\n\nDoes anybody have the source code to the externel processes that comes with 3D \nStudio, and mabe som kind of DOC for writing the processes your self.\n\n\n/Lars\n\n+++ Author: Lars_Jorgensen@p7.syntax.bbs.bad.se, Syntax BBS, Denmark\n\n--- GoldED 2.41\n',
'From: maridai@comm.mot.com (Marida Ignacio)\nSubject: Re: "Accepting Jesus in your heart..."\nOrganization: trunking_fixed\nLines: 34\n\n\n |whitsebd@nextwork.rose-hulman.edu (Bryan Whitsell) writes: \n | \n |> Religion (especially Christianity) is nothing more than a DRUG. \n |> Some people use drugs as an escape from reality. Christians inject\n |> themselves with jeezus and live with that high. \n | \n |Your logic is falty. If Christianity is a DRUG, and once we die we \n |die, then why would you be reluctant to embrase this drug so that \n |while you are alive you enjoy yourself. \n | \n\nPardon the harshness that follows...\n\nOnce, I told a cradle christian: Please do not take advantage of Jesus\nor anybody for the sake of your own (selfish) realization or search\nfor true faith/religion/belonging/\'being in\'/fear of hell/vanity/etc. \nInstead of serving yourself, _we must be serving Him_. \n*Until you have comprehended this truth, you are only doing things for your \nown egoism.*\n\nLet us not use Jesus, our religion, the Bible, anything or\nanybody as a means of escape or getting ecstatic or high.\nWe are God\'s children and we must have a true and authentic\nrelationship with our Father with obedience, faith, hope and \nlove and works (the last as the most important).\n\nBeware of our \'materialistic\', \'worldly\' and \'selfish\' motives. \nAtheists have this ground against us and I believe they are right about\n*some* who call themselves \'christians\'.\n\n-Marida\n "...spreading Gods words through actions..."\n -Mother Teresa\n',
'From: h8902939@hkuxa.hku.hk (Abel)\nSubject: Developable Surface\nNntp-Posting-Host: hkuxa.hku.hk\nOrganization: The University of Hong Kong\nX-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]\nLines: 9\n\nHi netters,\n\n\tI am currently doing some investigations on "Developable Surface".\nCan anyone familiar with this topic give me some information or sources\nwhich can allow me to find some infomation of developable surface?\n\tThanks for your help!\n\nAbel\nh8902939@hkuxa.hku.hk\n',
'From: wsun@jeeves.ucsd.edu (Fiberman)\nSubject: Re: Is MSG sensitivity superstition?\nKeywords: MSG, Glu\nOrganization: University of California, San Diego\nLines: 5\nNntp-Posting-Host: jeeves.ucsd.edu\n\nI have heard that epileptic patients go into seizures if they\neat anything with MSG added. This may have something to do with\nthe excitotoxicity of neurons.\n\n-fm\n',
'From: mcovingt@aisun3.ai.uga.edu (Michael Covington)\nSubject: Re: When are two people married in God\'s eyes?\nOrganization: AI Programs, University of Georgia, Athens\nLines: 39\n\nTo recapitulate a bit:\n\n- The essence of marriage is two people\'s commitment to each other.\n\n- If two people claim to be married "in their hearts" but are not\n willing to have the marriage recognized by church and state, that\'s\n prima facie evidence that the commitment isn\'t really there.\n\n- There are obvious situations in which Christian marriage is possible\n without a civil or church wedding: if you\'re stranded on a desert\n island, or if your state forbids the marriage for an unjust reason\n (e.g., laws against interracial marriage).\n\n- The legal concept of "common-law marriage" is meant to ensure that\n the state will recognize marriages that did not start out with the\n usual ceremony and record-keeping.\n\n- Pastorally, I\'m concerned that people should not use "being married\n in God\'s eyes" as an excuse for living together without a formal wedding.\n One has a duty to have one\'s marriage properly recorded and witnessed.\n \n- But there are also people who have been through a wedding ceremony\n without making a genuine commitment, and therefore are not married\n in God\'s eyes. Right?\n-- \n:- Michael A. Covington, Associate Research Scientist : *****\n:- Artificial Intelligence Programs mcovingt@ai.uga.edu : *********\n:- The University of Georgia phone 706 542-0358 : * * *\n:- Athens, Georgia 30602-7415 U.S.A. amateur radio N4TMI : ** *** ** <><\n\n[I think the last statement is dangerous. I believe as long as\nsomeone has formally undertaken the responsibility of marriage, they\nhave a moral obligation, even if their intention was not right. Other\npeople are involved in the marriage covenant. If they believed in\ngood faith that a marriage occurred, then I think there are\nobligations created to them. Of course there are situations where\nintent can cause a marriage not to exist. The classic example is when\nit\'s done as part of a play. But these are exceptions, and should be\nclear to all parties. --clh]\n',
'From: Patrick C Leger <pl1u+@andrew.cmu.edu>\nSubject: Re: thoughts on christians\nOrganization: Sophomore, Electrical and Computer Engineering, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA\nLines: 51\nNNTP-Posting-Host: po3.andrew.cmu.edu\nIn-Reply-To: <C5JHBp.55w@portal.hq.videocart.com>\n\nExcerpts from netnews.alt.atheism: 15-Apr-93 Re: thoughts on christians\nby Dave Fuller@portal.hq.vi \n> I\'m sick of religious types being pampered, looked out for, and WORST\n> OF ALL . . . . respected more than atheists. There must be an end\n> in sight.\n> \nI think it\'d help if we got a couple good atheists (or even some good,\nsteadfast agnostics) in some high political offices. When was the last\ntime we had an (openly) atheist president? Have we ever? (I don\'t\nactually know; these aren\'t rhetorical questions.) How \'bout some\nSupreme court justices? \n\nOne thing that really ticked me off a while ago was an ad for a news\nprogram on a local station...The promo said something like "Who are\nthese cults, and why do they prey on the young?" Ahem. EVER HEAR OF\nBAPTISM AT BIRTH? If that isn\'t preying on the young, I don\'t know what\nis...\n\nI used to be (ack, barf) a Catholic, and was even confirmed...Shortly\nthereafter I decided it was a load of BS. My mom, who really insisted\nthat I continue to go to church, felt it was her duty (!) to bring me up\nas a believer! That was one of the more presumptuous things I\'ve heard\nin my life. I suggested we go talk to the priest, and she agreed. The\npriest was amazingly cool about it...He basically said that if I didn\'t\nbelieve it, there was no good in forcing it on me. Actually, I guess he\nwasn\'t amazingly cool about it--His response is what you\'d hope for\n(indeed, expect) from a human being. I s\'pose I just _didn\'t_ expect\nit... \n\nI find it absurd that religion exists; Yet, I can also see its\nusefulness to people. Facing up to the fact that you\'re just going to\nbe worm food in a few decades, and that there isn\'t some cosmic purpose\nto humanity and the universe, can be pretty difficult for some people. \nHaving a readily-available, pre-digested solution to this is pretty\nattractive, if you\'re either a) gullible enough, b) willing to suspend\nyour reasoning abilities for the piece of mind, or c) have had the stuff\nrammed down your throat for as long as you can remember. Religion in\ngeneral provides a nice patch for some human weaknesses; Organized\nreligion provides a nice way to keep a population under control. \n\nBlech.\n\nChris\n\n\n----------------------\nChris Leger\nSophomore, Carnegie Mellon Computer Engineering\nRemember...if you don\'t like what somebody is saying, you can always\nignore them!\n\n',
"From: diablo.UUCP!cboesel (Charles Boesel)\nSubject: Re: Postscript drawing prog\nOrganization: Diablo Creative\nReply-To: diablo.UUCP!cboesel (Charles Boesel)\nX-Mailer: uAccess LITE - Macintosh Release: 1.6v2\nLines: 22\n\n\nIn article <1993Apr19.171704.2147@Informatik.TU-Muenchen.DE> (comp.graphics.gnuplot,comp.graphics), rdd@uts.ipp-garching.mpg.de (Reinhard Drube) writes:\n>In article <C5ECnn.7qo@mentor.cc.purdue.edu>, nish@cv4.chem.purdue.edu (Nishantha I.) writes:\n>|> \tCould somebody let me know of a drawing utility that can be\n>|> used to manipulate postscript files.I am specifically interested in\n>|> drawing lines, boxes and the sort on Postscript contour plots.\n>|> \tI have tried xfig and I am impressed by it's features. However\n>|> it is of no use since I cannot use postscript files as input for the\n>|> programme.Is there a utility that converts postscript to xfig format?\n>|> \tAny help would be greatly appreciated.\n>|> \t\t\t\tNishantha\nHave you checked out Adobe Illustrator? There are a few Unix versions\nfor it available, depending on your platform. I know of two Unix versions:\nOne for Mach (NeXT) and for Irix (SGI). There may be others, such\nas for Sun SparcStation, but I don't know for sure.\n\nttyl,\n\n--\ncharles boesel @ diablo creative | If Pro = for and Con = against\ncboesel@diablo.uu.holonet.net | Then what's the opposite of Progress?\n+1.510.980.1958(pager) | What else, Congress.\n",
"From: I3150101@dbstu1.rz.tu-bs.de (Benedikt Rosenau)\nSubject: Re: The Inimitable Rushdie (Re: An Anecdote about Islam\nOrganization: Technical University Braunschweig, Germany\nLines: 19\n\nIn article <115846@bu.edu>\njaeger@buphy.bu.edu (Gregg Jaeger) writes:\n \n(Deletion)\n>Certainly. It is a central aspect of Islam to show mercy and to give\n>those who've done wrong (even presuming Rushdie _did_ violate Islamic\n>Law) and committed crimes. This was the basis for my posts regarding\n>leniency which seemed not to have penetrated Benedikt's skull.\n \nYou have demanded harsh punishments of several crimes. Repeating\noffenders have slipped in only as justification of harsh punishment at\nall. Typically religious doublespeak. Whenever you have contradictory\nstatements you choose the possibility that suits your current argument.\n \nIt is disgusting that someone with ideas that would make Theodore KKKaldis\nfeel cozy can go along under the protection of religion.\n \nGregg, tell us, would you kill idolaters?\n Benedikt\n",
"From: nichael@bbn.com (Nichael Cramer)\nSubject: Re: Dead Sea Scrolls\nReply-To: ncramer@bbn.com\nOrganization: BBN, Interzone Office\nLines: 24\n\ndhancock@teosinte.agron.missouri.edu (Denis Hancock) writes:\n > [A very nice article on the DSS, which I thought answered\n > David Cruz-Uribe's original queries quite well]\n\n Here are some books I have read recently that helped me not only\n prepare for a 5 week series I taught in Sunday School, but greatly\n increased my knowledge of the Qumran scrolls. [...]\n\nOne other recent book I would heartily recommend is Joseph Fitzmyer's\n_Response to 101 Questions about the Dead Sea Scrolls_ (Paulist,\n1992).\n\nFitzmyer is one of the preeminent modern NT scholars. He was also one\nof the early workers on the DSS. His book is written in a\nstraightforward Q&A that allows it to serve as a source for a great\nwealth of clearly presented basic, up-to-the-moment information about\nthe DSS.\n\n(This book is something of a companion volume to Raymond Brown's\n_Response to 101 Questions about the Dead Sea Scrolls_.)\n\nNichael\n\nPop Quiz: What's wrong with the cover of this book? ;)\n",
'From: atterlep@vela.acs.oakland.edu (Cardinal Ximenez)\nSubject: Re: A question that has bee bothering me.\nOrganization: National Association for the Disorganized\nLines: 18\n\nwquinnan@sdcc13.ucsd.edu (Malcusco) writes:\n\n>Especially as we approach a time when Scientists are trying to match God\'s \n>ability to create life, we should use the utmost caution.\n\n I question the implications of this statement; namely, that there are certain\nphysical acts which are limited to God and that attempting to replicate these\nacts is blasphemy against God. God caused a bush to burn without being\nconsumed--if I do the same thing, am I usurping God\'s role? \n Religious people are threatened by science because it has been systematically\nremoving the physical "proofs" of God\'s existence. As time goes on we have to\nrely more and more on faith and the spiritual world to relate to God becuase\nscience is removing our props. I don\'t think this is a bad thing.\n\nAlan Terlep\t\t\t\t "Incestuous vituperousness"\nOakland University, Rochester, MI\t\t\t\natterlep@vela.acs.oakland.edu\t\t\t\t --Melissa Eggertsen\nRushing in where angels fear to tread.\t\t\n',
'From: cobb@alexia.lis.uiuc.edu (Mike Cobb)\nSubject: Re: After 2000 years, can we say that Christian Morality is\nOrganization: University of Illinois at Urbana\nLines: 23\n\nIn <sfnNTrC00WBO43LRUK@andrew.cmu.edu> "David R. Sacco" <dsav+@andrew.cmu.edu> \nwrites:\n\n>After tons of mail, could we move this discussion to alt.religion?\n\nYes.\n\nMAC\n>=============================================================\n>--There are many here among us who feel that life is but a joke. (Bob Dylan)\n>--"If you were happy every day of your life you wouldn\'t be a human\n>being, you\'d be a game show host." (taken from the movie "Heathers.")\n>--Lecture (LEK chur) - process by which the notes of the professor\n>become the notes of the student without passing through the minds of\n>either.\n--\n****************************************************************\n Michael A. Cobb\n "...and I won\'t raise taxes on the middle University of Illinois\n class to pay for my programs." Champaign-Urbana\n -Bill Clinton 3rd Debate cobb@alexia.lis.uiuc.edu\n \nWith new taxes and spending cuts we\'ll still have 310 billion dollar deficits.\n',
'From: parkin@Eng.Sun.COM (Michael Parkin)\nSubject: Re: Being right about messiahs\nReply-To: parkin@Eng.Sun.COM\nOrganization: Sun Microsystems Inc., Mountain View, CA\nLines: 71\n\nIn article 2262@geneva.rutgers.edu, Desiree_Bradley@mindlink.bc.ca (Desiree Bradley) writes:\n> I must have missed the postings about Waco, David Koresh, and the Second\n> Coming. How does one tell if a Second Coming is the real thing, unless the\n> person claiming to be IT is obviously insane?\n\nFirst by his fruits. The messiah comes to build the kingdom of heaven\non the earth. He also comes to first reveal the root cause of\noriginal sin (fallen nature) and then provide a means to cut the\nconnection to that original sin. He also wants to create world peace\nbased on Godism. The messiah\'s teachings will build on the foundation\nof the Bible but provide profound new insights into the nature of God,\nthe fall of man, the purpose of creation, and God\'s providence of\nrestoration. It will also provide a foundation for the unity of all\nthe World\'s religions.\n\nMany Christians expect Jesus to come on literal clouds, so they may\nmiss him when he returns. Just as the Jewish people missed Jesus 2000\nyears ago. They are still waiting for his first coming. The Jewish\npeople of that age expected Elijah to come first. Jesus said that\nJohn the Baptist was Elijah. But John the Baptist denied that he was\nElijah. (How did this reflect on Jesus?) Later in prison John even\nquestioned who Jesus was: "is he the one who is to come or do we look\nfor another". (see book of Matthew)\n\n> \n> I\'m not saying that David Koresh is the Second Coming of Christ. How could\n> somebody who breaks his word be the Second Coming? Koresh did promise that\n> he would come out of his compound if only he was allowed to give a radio\n> broadcast. He didn\'t. Still it seems to me that he did fool some people.\n\nDavid Koresh didn\'t even come close. The problem is that people like\nthis make it difficult for people to believe and trust in the real\nMessiah when he does show up.\n\n> \n> And, from my meagre knowledge of the Bible, it seems that Christians have\n> been hard on the Jews of Christ\'s day for being cautious about accepting\n> somebody that their religious authorities didn\'t accept as the Messiah.\n> \n> So I was surprised that nobody had discussed the difficulty of wanting to be\n> early to recognize the Second Coming while, at the same time, not wanting to\n> be credulously believing just anybody who claims to be God.\n\nVery good point and perhaps the most important point of all for\nChristians: How to recognize the Second Coming?\n\nThe Messiah should not claim to be God. What sets a Messiah apart is\nthat he is born without original sin. He is not born perfect but\nachieves perfection after a period of growth. Adam and Eve were born\nsinless but they fell, and this tragedy meant that it would take God\nthousands of years to create the kingdom of heaven on the earth as God\noriginally intended. God\'s restoration providence is still not\ncomplete. The messiah is the true Son of God, one with God, God\'s\nrepresentative on the earth, but not God himself. There is only one\nGod.\n\n> [Mark 13:21 And then if any one says to you, \'Look, here is the Christ!\' \n> or \'Look, there he is!\' do not believe it. \n...\n> Mark 13:26 And then they will see the Son of man coming in clouds with \n> great power and glory. \n\n> My understanding of Jesus\' answer is that, unlike his first coming,\n> which was veiled, the second coming will be quite unmistakeable.\n\n> By the way, from Koresh\'s public statement it\'s not so clear to me\n> that he is claiming to be Christ.\n\nWho else in this world is claiming to be the Messiah. Maybe he\'s already here.\n\nMike\n',
'From: kxgst1+@pitt.edu (Kenneth Gilbert)\nSubject: Re: Any info. on Vasomotor Rhinitis\nOrganization: University of Pittsburgh\nLines: 21\n\nIn article <1r1t1a$njq@europa.eng.gtefsd.com> draper@gnd1.wtp.gtefsd.com writes:\n:I recently attended an allery seminar. Steroid Nasal sprays were \n:discussed. Afterward on a one-on-one basis, I asked the speaker what if \n:none of the Vancanese, Beconase, Nasalide, Nasalcort, or Nasalchrom work \n:nor do any oral decongestants work. She replied that she saw an article on \n:Vasomotor Rhinitis. That this is not an allergic reaction and that nothing \n:other than the Afrin\'s and such would work. (Which in my case is true).\n\nThere has been some recent research on vasomotor rhinitis that shows that\nipratroprium bromide (Atrovent) inhaled nasally is an effective treatment\nfor many sufferers. It has been approved for this use and is available\nwith a nasal adaptor in Canada. In the US the FDA has yet to approve this\nuse of the drug, but it is available as an oral inhaler (for COPD), and\nthese can be adapted for intranasal use.\n\n\n-- \n=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-|-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=\n= Kenneth Gilbert __|__ University of Pittsburgh =\n= General Internal Medicine | "...dammit, not a programmer!" =\n=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-|-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=\n',
"From: labson@borneo.corp.sgi.com (Joel Labson)\nSubject: Maybe?????\nOrganization: Silicon Graphics, Inc.\nLines: 17\n\nHi Christian friends,\n\nMy name is Joel, I have a sister who's 25th birthday is tomorrow.....She\nused to be on fire for the Lord, but somehow, for some reason, she\nbecame cold....she don't want to associate anymore with her old\nchristian friends.........so I thought maybe some of you could help her\nout again by sending her a postcard or card with a little message of\nencouragement.....hand written is okay....her address is 3150 Hobart\nAve. San Jose Ca. 95127...........\n\nThank you and God Bless.\n\nPS: Jesus Christ is LORD!!!!!!!! \n\n[I have some qualms about postings like this. You might want to\nengage in a bit more conversation with Joel before deluging \nsomeone who doesn't expect it with cards. --clh]\n",
'From: dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer)\nSubject: Re: Thrush ((was: Good Grief! (was Re: Candida Albicans: what is it?)))\nOrganization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA\nLines: 34\n\nIn article <21APR199308571323@ucsvax.sdsu.edu> mccurdy@ucsvax.sdsu.edu (McCurdy M.) writes:\n>Dyer is beyond rude. \n\nYeah, yeah, yeah. I didn\'t threaten to rip your lips off, did I?\nSnort.\n\n>There have been and always will be people who are blinded by their own \n>knowledge and unopen to anything that isn\'t already established. Given what \n>the medical community doesn\'t know, I\'m surprised that he has this outlook.\n\nDuh.\n\n>For the record, I have had several outbreaks of thrush during the several \n>past few years, with no indication of immunosuppression or nutritional \n>deficiencies. I had not taken any antobiotics. \n\nListen: thrush is a recognized clinical syndrome with definite\ncharacteristics. If you have thrush, you have thrush, because you can\nsee the lesions and do a culture and when you treat it, it generally\nresponds well, if you\'re not otherwise immunocompromised. Noring\'s\nanal-retentive idee fixe on having a fungal infection in his sinuses\nis not even in the same category here, nor are these walking neurasthenics\nwho are convinced they have "candida" from reading a quack book.\n\n>My dentist (who sees a fair amount of thrush) recommended acidophilous:\n>After I began taking acidophilous on a daily basis, the outbreaks ceased.\n>When I quit taking the acidophilous, the outbreaks periodically resumed. \n>I resumed taking the acidophilous with no further outbreaks since then.\n\nSo?\n\n-- \nSteve Dyer\ndyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer\n',
...],
'filenames': array(['/root/scikit_learn_data/20news_home/20news-bydate-train/comp.graphics/38440',
'/root/scikit_learn_data/20news_home/20news-bydate-train/comp.graphics/38479',
'/root/scikit_learn_data/20news_home/20news-bydate-train/soc.religion.christian/20737',
...,
'/root/scikit_learn_data/20news_home/20news-bydate-train/sci.med/58112',
'/root/scikit_learn_data/20news_home/20news-bydate-train/sci.med/58578',
'/root/scikit_learn_data/20news_home/20news-bydate-train/sci.med/58895'],
dtype='<U86'),
'target': array([1, 1, 3, ..., 2, 2, 2]),
'target_names': ['alt.atheism',
'comp.graphics',
'sci.med',
'soc.religion.christian']}
twenty_test = fetch_20newsgroups(subset='test', categories=categories, shuffle=True, random_state=42)
twenty_test
{'DESCR': '.. _20newsgroups_dataset:\n\nThe 20 newsgroups text dataset\n------------------------------\n\nThe 20 newsgroups dataset comprises around 18000 newsgroups posts on\n20 topics split in two subsets: one for training (or development)\nand the other one for testing (or for performance evaluation). The split\nbetween the train and test set is based upon a messages posted before\nand after a specific date.\n\nThis module contains two loaders. The first one,\n:func:`sklearn.datasets.fetch_20newsgroups`,\nreturns a list of the raw texts that can be fed to text feature\nextractors such as :class:`sklearn.feature_extraction.text.CountVectorizer`\nwith custom parameters so as to extract feature vectors.\nThe second one, :func:`sklearn.datasets.fetch_20newsgroups_vectorized`,\nreturns ready-to-use features, i.e., it is not necessary to use a feature\nextractor.\n\n**Data Set Characteristics:**\n\n ================= ==========\n Classes 20\n Samples total 18846\n Dimensionality 1\n Features text\n ================= ==========\n\nUsage\n~~~~~\n\nThe :func:`sklearn.datasets.fetch_20newsgroups` function is a data\nfetching / caching functions that downloads the data archive from\nthe original `20 newsgroups website`_, extracts the archive contents\nin the ``~/scikit_learn_data/20news_home`` folder and calls the\n:func:`sklearn.datasets.load_files` on either the training or\ntesting set folder, or both of them::\n\n >>> from sklearn.datasets import fetch_20newsgroups\n >>> newsgroups_train = fetch_20newsgroups(subset=\'train\')\n\n >>> from pprint import pprint\n >>> pprint(list(newsgroups_train.target_names))\n [\'alt.atheism\',\n \'comp.graphics\',\n \'comp.os.ms-windows.misc\',\n \'comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware\',\n \'comp.sys.mac.hardware\',\n \'comp.windows.x\',\n \'misc.forsale\',\n \'rec.autos\',\n \'rec.motorcycles\',\n \'rec.sport.baseball\',\n \'rec.sport.hockey\',\n \'sci.crypt\',\n \'sci.electronics\',\n \'sci.med\',\n \'sci.space\',\n \'soc.religion.christian\',\n \'talk.politics.guns\',\n \'talk.politics.mideast\',\n \'talk.politics.misc\',\n \'talk.religion.misc\']\n\nThe real data lies in the ``filenames`` and ``target`` attributes. The target\nattribute is the integer index of the category::\n\n >>> newsgroups_train.filenames.shape\n (11314,)\n >>> newsgroups_train.target.shape\n (11314,)\n >>> newsgroups_train.target[:10]\n array([ 7, 4, 4, 1, 14, 16, 13, 3, 2, 4])\n\nIt is possible to load only a sub-selection of the categories by passing the\nlist of the categories to load to the\n:func:`sklearn.datasets.fetch_20newsgroups` function::\n\n >>> cats = [\'alt.atheism\', \'sci.space\']\n >>> newsgroups_train = fetch_20newsgroups(subset=\'train\', categories=cats)\n\n >>> list(newsgroups_train.target_names)\n [\'alt.atheism\', \'sci.space\']\n >>> newsgroups_train.filenames.shape\n (1073,)\n >>> newsgroups_train.target.shape\n (1073,)\n >>> newsgroups_train.target[:10]\n array([0, 1, 1, 1, 0, 1, 1, 0, 0, 0])\n\nConverting text to vectors\n~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~\n\nIn order to feed predictive or clustering models with the text data,\none first need to turn the text into vectors of numerical values suitable\nfor statistical analysis. This can be achieved with the utilities of the\n``sklearn.feature_extraction.text`` as demonstrated in the following\nexample that extract `TF-IDF`_ vectors of unigram tokens\nfrom a subset of 20news::\n\n >>> from sklearn.feature_extraction.text import TfidfVectorizer\n >>> categories = [\'alt.atheism\', \'talk.religion.misc\',\n ... \'comp.graphics\', \'sci.space\']\n >>> newsgroups_train = fetch_20newsgroups(subset=\'train\',\n ... categories=categories)\n >>> vectorizer = TfidfVectorizer()\n >>> vectors = vectorizer.fit_transform(newsgroups_train.data)\n >>> vectors.shape\n (2034, 34118)\n\nThe extracted TF-IDF vectors are very sparse, with an average of 159 non-zero\ncomponents by sample in a more than 30000-dimensional space\n(less than .5% non-zero features)::\n\n >>> vectors.nnz / float(vectors.shape[0])\n 159.01327...\n\n:func:`sklearn.datasets.fetch_20newsgroups_vectorized` is a function which \nreturns ready-to-use token counts features instead of file names.\n\n.. _`20 newsgroups website`: http://people.csail.mit.edu/jrennie/20Newsgroups/\n.. _`TF-IDF`: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tf-idf\n\n\nFiltering text for more realistic training\n~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~\n\nIt is easy for a classifier to overfit on particular things that appear in the\n20 Newsgroups data, such as newsgroup headers. Many classifiers achieve very\nhigh F-scores, but their results would not generalize to other documents that\naren\'t from this window of time.\n\nFor example, let\'s look at the results of a multinomial Naive Bayes classifier,\nwhich is fast to train and achieves a decent F-score::\n\n >>> from sklearn.naive_bayes import MultinomialNB\n >>> from sklearn import metrics\n >>> newsgroups_test = fetch_20newsgroups(subset=\'test\',\n ... categories=categories)\n >>> vectors_test = vectorizer.transform(newsgroups_test.data)\n >>> clf = MultinomialNB(alpha=.01)\n >>> clf.fit(vectors, newsgroups_train.target)\n MultinomialNB(alpha=0.01, class_prior=None, fit_prior=True)\n\n >>> pred = clf.predict(vectors_test)\n >>> metrics.f1_score(newsgroups_test.target, pred, average=\'macro\')\n 0.88213...\n\n(The example :ref:`sphx_glr_auto_examples_text_plot_document_classification_20newsgroups.py` shuffles\nthe training and test data, instead of segmenting by time, and in that case\nmultinomial Naive Bayes gets a much higher F-score of 0.88. Are you suspicious\nyet of what\'s going on inside this classifier?)\n\nLet\'s take a look at what the most informative features are:\n\n >>> import numpy as np\n >>> def show_top10(classifier, vectorizer, categories):\n ... feature_names = np.asarray(vectorizer.get_feature_names())\n ... for i, category in enumerate(categories):\n ... top10 = np.argsort(classifier.coef_[i])[-10:]\n ... print("%s: %s" % (category, " ".join(feature_names[top10])))\n ...\n >>> show_top10(clf, vectorizer, newsgroups_train.target_names)\n alt.atheism: edu it and in you that is of to the\n comp.graphics: edu in graphics it is for and of to the\n sci.space: edu it that is in and space to of the\n talk.religion.misc: not it you in is that and to of the\n\n\nYou can now see many things that these features have overfit to:\n\n- Almost every group is distinguished by whether headers such as\n ``NNTP-Posting-Host:`` and ``Distribution:`` appear more or less often.\n- Another significant feature involves whether the sender is affiliated with\n a university, as indicated either by their headers or their signature.\n- The word "article" is a significant feature, based on how often people quote\n previous posts like this: "In article [article ID], [name] <[e-mail address]>\n wrote:"\n- Other features match the names and e-mail addresses of particular people who\n were posting at the time.\n\nWith such an abundance of clues that distinguish newsgroups, the classifiers\nbarely have to identify topics from text at all, and they all perform at the\nsame high level.\n\nFor this reason, the functions that load 20 Newsgroups data provide a\nparameter called **remove**, telling it what kinds of information to strip out\nof each file. **remove** should be a tuple containing any subset of\n``(\'headers\', \'footers\', \'quotes\')``, telling it to remove headers, signature\nblocks, and quotation blocks respectively.\n\n >>> newsgroups_test = fetch_20newsgroups(subset=\'test\',\n ... remove=(\'headers\', \'footers\', \'quotes\'),\n ... categories=categories)\n >>> vectors_test = vectorizer.transform(newsgroups_test.data)\n >>> pred = clf.predict(vectors_test)\n >>> metrics.f1_score(pred, newsgroups_test.target, average=\'macro\')\n 0.77310...\n\nThis classifier lost over a lot of its F-score, just because we removed\nmetadata that has little to do with topic classification.\nIt loses even more if we also strip this metadata from the training data:\n\n >>> newsgroups_train = fetch_20newsgroups(subset=\'train\',\n ... remove=(\'headers\', \'footers\', \'quotes\'),\n ... categories=categories)\n >>> vectors = vectorizer.fit_transform(newsgroups_train.data)\n >>> clf = MultinomialNB(alpha=.01)\n >>> clf.fit(vectors, newsgroups_train.target)\n MultinomialNB(alpha=0.01, class_prior=None, fit_prior=True)\n\n >>> vectors_test = vectorizer.transform(newsgroups_test.data)\n >>> pred = clf.predict(vectors_test)\n >>> metrics.f1_score(newsgroups_test.target, pred, average=\'macro\')\n 0.76995...\n\nSome other classifiers cope better with this harder version of the task. Try\nrunning :ref:`sphx_glr_auto_examples_model_selection_grid_search_text_feature_extraction.py` with and without\nthe ``--filter`` option to compare the results.\n\n.. topic:: Recommendation\n\n When evaluating text classifiers on the 20 Newsgroups data, you\n should strip newsgroup-related metadata. In scikit-learn, you can do this by\n setting ``remove=(\'headers\', \'footers\', \'quotes\')``. The F-score will be\n lower because it is more realistic.\n\n.. topic:: Examples\n\n * :ref:`sphx_glr_auto_examples_model_selection_grid_search_text_feature_extraction.py`\n\n * :ref:`sphx_glr_auto_examples_text_plot_document_classification_20newsgroups.py`\n',
'data': ["From: brian@ucsd.edu (Brian Kantor)\nSubject: Re: HELP for Kidney Stones ..............\nOrganization: The Avant-Garde of the Now, Ltd.\nLines: 12\nNNTP-Posting-Host: ucsd.edu\n\nAs I recall from my bout with kidney stones, there isn't any\nmedication that can do anything about them except relieve the pain.\n\nEither they pass, or they have to be broken up with sound, or they have\nto be extracted surgically.\n\nWhen I was in, the X-ray tech happened to mention that she'd had kidney\nstones and children, and the childbirth hurt less.\n\nDemerol worked, although I nearly got arrested on my way home when I barfed\nall over the police car parked just outside the ER.\n\t- Brian\n",
'From: rind@enterprise.bih.harvard.edu (David Rind)\nSubject: Re: Candida(yeast) Bloom, Fact or Fiction\nOrganization: Beth Israel Hospital, Harvard Medical School, Boston Mass., USA\nLines: 37\nNNTP-Posting-Host: enterprise.bih.harvard.edu\n\nIn article <1993Apr26.103242.1@vms.ocom.okstate.edu>\n banschbach@vms.ocom.okstate.edu writes:\n>are in a different class. The big question seems to be is it reasonable to \n>use them in patients with GI distress or sinus problems that *could* be due \n>to candida blooms following the use of broad-spectrum antibiotics?\n\nI guess I\'m still not clear on what the term "candida bloom" means,\nbut certainly it is well known that thrush (superficial candidal\ninfections on mucous membranes) can occur after antibiotic use.\nThis has nothing to do with systemic yeast syndrome, the "quack"\ndiagnosis that has been being discussed.\n\n\n>found in the sinus mucus membranes than is candida. Women have been known \n>for a very long time to suffer from candida blooms in the vagina and a \n>women is lucky to find a physician who is willing to treat the cause and \n>not give give her advise to use the OTC anti-fungal creams.\n\nLucky how? Since a recent article (randomized controlled trial) of\noral yogurt on reducing vaginal candidiasis, I\'ve mentioned to a \nnumber of patients with frequent vaginal yeast infections that they\ncould try eating 6 ounces of yogurt daily. It turns out most would\nrather just use anti-fungal creams when they get yeast infections.\n\n>yogurt dangerous). If this were a standard part of medical practice, as \n>Gordon R. says it is, then the incidence of GI distress and vaginal yeast \n>infections should decline.\n\nAgain, this just isn\'t what the systemic yeast syndrome is about, and\nhas nothing to do with the quack therapies that were being discussed.\nThere is some evidence that attempts to reinoculate the GI tract with\nbacteria after antibiotic therapy don\'t seem to be very helpful in\nreducing diarrhea, but I don\'t think anyone would view this as a\nquack therapy.\n-- \nDavid Rind\nrind@enterprise.bih.harvard.edu\n',
'From: adwright@iastate.edu ()\nSubject: Re: centi- and milli- pedes\nOrganization: Iowa State University, Ames IA\nLines: 37\n\nIn <1993Apr29.112642.1@vms.ocom.okstate.edu> chorley@vms.ocom.okstate.edu writes:\n\n>In article <35004@castle.ed.ac.uk>, gtclark@festival.ed.ac.uk (G T Clark) writes:\n>> msnyder@nmt.edu (Rebecca Snyder) writes:\n>> \n>>>Does anyone know how posionous centipedes and millipedes are? If someone\n>>>was bitten, how soon would medical treatment be needed, and what would\n>>>be liable to happen to the person?\n>> \n>>>(Just for clarification - I have NOT been bitten by one of these, but my\n>>>house seems to be infested, and I want to know \'just in case\'.)\n>> \n>>>Rebecca\n>> \n>> \n>> \tMillipedes, I understand, are vegetarian, and therefore almost\n>> certainly will not bite and are not poisonous. Centipedes are\n>> carnivorous, and although I don\'t have any absolute knowledge on this, I\n>> would tend to think that you\'re in no danger from anything but a\n>> concerted assault by several million of them.\n>> \n>> \t\t\tG.\n>Not sure of this but I think some millipedes cause a toxic reaction (sting?\n>So I would not assume that they are not dangerous merely on the basis of \n>vegetarianism, after all wasps are vegetarian too.\n>dnc.\n\nAs a child i can remember picking up a centipede and getting a rather painful \nsting, but it quickly subsided. Much less painful compared to a bee sting. \nCentipedes have a poison claw (one of the front feet) to stun their prey, but\nin my single experience it did not have a lot of "bite" to it.\n\nA.\n\n\n\n\n',
"From: livesey@solntze.wpd.sgi.com (Jon Livesey)\nSubject: Re: free moral agency\nOrganization: sgi\nLines: 26\nDistribution: world\nNNTP-Posting-Host: solntze.wpd.sgi.com\n\nIn article <C5uuL0.n1C@darkside.osrhe.uoknor.edu>, bil@okcforum.osrhe.edu (Bill Conner) writes:\n|> \n|> Many of the atheists posting here argue against their own parody of\n|> religion; they create some ridiculous caricature of a religion and\n|> then attack the believers within that religion and the religion itself\n|> as ridiculous. By their own devices, they establish a new religion, a\n|> mythology.\n\nYou mean Bobby Mozumder is a myth? We wondered about that.\n\n|> The point of course, is to erect an easy target and deflect the\n|> disputants away from the real issue - atheism. The fictional Christian\n|> or Moslem or Jew who is supposed to believe the distorted\n|> representation of their beliefs presented here, is therefore made to\n|> seem a fool and his/her arguments can thereby be made to appear\n|> ludicrous. The mythology is the misrepresentations of religion used\n|> here as fact.\n\nYou mean Bobby Mozumder didn't really post here? We wondered\nabout that, too.\n\nSo, Mr Conner. Is Bobby Mozumder a myth, a performing artist, \na real Moslem. a crackpot, a provocateur? You know everything\nand read all minds: why don't you tell us?\n\njon.\n",
'From: jhpb@sarto.budd-lake.nj.us (Joseph H. Buehler)\nSubject: the ancient canon of the Roman rite\nOrganization: none\nLines: 132\n\nThe following is a juxtaposition of part of an ancient text known as\n"de Sacramentis", usually attributed to St. Ambrose of Milan, and the\ncanon of the traditional Catholic Mass of the Roman rite. The\nconclusion from this comparison is that the central part of the\ntraditional Roman canon was already fairly well in place by sometime\nin the late 4th century.\n\nTaken from "The Mass of the Western Rites", by the Right Reverend Dom\nFernand Cabrol, Abbot of Farnborough, 1934, without permission.\nExcerpted from Chapter VI: THE MASS AT ROME, FROM THE FIFTH TO THE\nSEVENTH CENTURIES. The paragraph at the end is from the book, not me.\n\nSorry about the long lines.\n\nJoe Buehler\n\n-----\n\nTEXT OF DE SACRAMENTIS ROMAN CANON ROMAN CANON\n(about 400 AD) (1962 AD) (English translation)\n\n Te igitur ... (omitted here)\n Memento Domine ...\n Communicantes ...\n Hanc igitur oblationem ...\n\nFac nobis (inquit sacerdos), Quam oblationem tu Deus, in Do thou, O God, deign to\nhanc oblationem ascriptam, omnibus, quaesumus, bless what we offer, and\nratam, rationabilem, benedictam, adscriptam, make it approved,\nacceptabilem, quod figura ratam, rationabilem, effective, right, and\nest corporis et sanguinis acceptabilemque facere wholly pleasing in every\nJesu Christi. digneris: ut nobis corpus et way, that it may become\n sanguis fiat dilectissimi for our good, the Body\n Filii tui Domini nostri Jesu and Blood of Thy dearly\n Christi. beloved Son, Jesus Christ\n our Lord.\n\nQui pridie quam pateretur, Qui pridie quam pateretur, Who, the day before He\nin sanctis manibus suis accepit panem in sanctas ac suffered, took bread into\naccepit panem, respexit in venerabiles manus suas: et His holy and venerable\ncaelum ad te, sancte Pater elevatis oculis in ccelum, hands, and having raised\nomnipotens, aeterne Deus, ad Te Deum Patrem suum His eyes to Heaven, unto\nGratias agens, benedixit, omnipotentem, tibi gratias Thee, O God, His Almighty\nfregit, fractum quae agens, benedixit, fregit, Father, giving thanks to\napostolis suis et discipulis deditque discipulis suis Thee, He blessed it, broke\nsuis tradidit dicens: dicens: accipite et it, and gave it to His\naccipite et edite ex hoc manducate ex hoc omnes: hoc disciples, saying: Take ye\nomnes: hoc est enim corpus est enim corpus meum. all and eat of this:\nmeum, quod pro multis For this is my Body.\nconfringetur.\n\nSimiliter etiam calicem Simili modo postquam In like manner, when the\npostquam caenatum est, caenatum est, accipiens et supper was done, taking\npridie quam pateretur, hunc praeclarum calicem in also this goodly chalice\naccepit, respexit in sanctas ac venerabiles manus into His holy and\ncaelum ad te, sancte pater suas item tibi gratias venerable hands, again\nomnipotens, aeterne Deus, agens, benedixit deditque giving thanks to Thee,\ngratias agens, benedixit, discipulis suis, dicens: He blessed it, and gave it\napostolis suis et discipulis accipite et bibite ex eo to His disciples, saying:\nsuis tradidit, dicens: omnes: Hic est enim calix Take ye all, and drink of\naccipite et bibite ex hoc sanguinis mei, novi et this: For this is the\nomnes: hic est enim sanguis aeterni testamenti: Chalice of my Blood of the\nmeus. mysterium fidei; qui pro new and eternal covenant;\n vobis et pro multis the mystery of faith,\n effundetur in remissionem which shall be shed for\n peccatorum. you and for many unto the\n forgiveness of sins.\n\n Haec quotiescumque feceritis As often as you shall do\n in mei memoriam facietis. these things, in memory of\n Me shall you do them.\n\nErgo memores gloriosissimae Unde et memores, Domine, nos Mindful, therefore, O\nejus passionis et ab inferis servi tui, sed et plebs tua Lord, not only of the\nresurrectionis, in caelum sancta, ejusdem Christi blessed Passion of the\nascensionis, offerimus tibi Filii tui Domini nostri, tam same Christ, Thy Son, our\nhanc immaculatam hostiam, beatae passionis necnon et Lord, but also of His\nhunc panem sanctum et ab inferis resurrectionis, resurrection from the\ncalicem vitae aeternae; sed et in caelos gloriosae dead, and finally His\n ascensionis: offerimus glorious ascension into\n praeclarae majestati tuae de Heaven, we, Thy ministers,\n tuis donis ac datis, hostiam as also Thy holy people,\n puram, hostiam sanctam, offer unto Thy supreme\n hostiam immaculatam, Panem majesty, of the gifts\n sanctum vitae aeternae, et bestowed upon us, the\n Calicem salutis perpetuae. pure Victim, the holy\n Victim, the all-perfect\n Victim: the holy Bread of\n life eternal and the\n Chalice of unending\n salvation.\n\net petimus et precamur, ut Supra quae propitio ac And this do Thou deign to\nhanc oblationem suscipias in sereno vultu respicere regard with gracious and\nsublimi altari tuo per manus digneris: et accepta habere, kindly attention and hold\nangelorum tuorum sicut sicuti accepta, habere acceptable, as Thou didst\nsuscipere dignatus es munera dignatus es munera pueri tui deign to accept the\npueri tui justi Abel et justi Abel, et sacrificium offerings of Abel, Thy\nsacrificium patriarchae patriarchae nostri Abrahae, just servant, and the\nnostri Abrahae et quod tibi et quod tibi obtulit summus sacrifice of Abraham our\nobtulit summus sacerdos sacerdos tuus Melchisedech patriarch, and that which\nMelchisedech. sanctum sacrificium, Thy chief priest\n immaculatam hostiam. Melchisedech offered unto\n Thee, a holy sacrifice and\n a spotless victim.\n\n Supplices te rogamus, Most humbly we implore\n omnipotens Deus: jube haec Thee, almighty God, bid\n perferri per manus sancti these offerings to be\n Angeli tui in sublime altare brought by the hands of\n tuum in conspectu divinae Thy holy angel unto Thy\n majestatis tuae: etc. altar above; before the\n face of Thy Divine\n Majesty; etc.\n\nThere is no doubt that we have here two editions of the same\ntext; and as that of De Sacramentis is localised in Upper Italy\nand dated about the year 400, it is the most ancient witness we\npossess as to the principal parts of the Roman canon, which only\nappear in the Sacramentaries some time after the seventh\ncentury. The question as to whether the Roman canon is not older\neven than that of De Sacramentis is discussed by\nliturgiologists. Mgr. Batiffol is of this opinion, but we, on\nthe contrary, think that the former bears traces of closer\ncomposition, of a more carefully guarded orthodoxy, and that\nconsequently it is a text corrected from De Sacramentis. We\nshall see, in studying the list of names in the Memento of the\nliving and that of the dead, that Mgr. Batiffol argues with good\nreason that he can date these fragments from the pontificate of\nSymmachus (498-514). We thus have the state of the Roman Mass,\nor at least of the chief parts of the canon, at the beginning of\nthe fourth century.\n',
"From: bil@okcforum.osrhe.edu (Bill Conner)\nSubject: Re: free moral agency\nNntp-Posting-Host: okcforum.osrhe.edu\nOrganization: Okcforum Unix Users Group\nX-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL9]\nDistribution: na\nLines: 15\n\nKent Sandvik (sandvik@newton.apple.com) wrote:\n\n: I agree, I had a hard feeling not believing my grand-grand mother\n: who told me of elves dancing outside barns in the early mornings.\n: I preferred not to accept it, even if her statement provided\n: the truth itself. Life is hard.\n\n\nKent,\n\nTruly a brilliant rebuttal. Apparently you are of the opinion that\nridicule is a suitable substitute for reason; you'll find plenty of\ncompany a.a\n\nBill\n",
"From: kintur@scorch.apana.org.au (Kingsley Turner)\nSubject: Universal VESA Driver\nOrganization: Craggenmoore public Unix system , Newcastle , Oz\nSummary: Want to know about universal VESA driver\nKeywords: VESA\nLines: 12\n\n Some time ago (about 1 month) there was a bit of discussion\n about a universal VESA driver for > 8bit cards. It was in\n the file uvesa32.zip. Well i can't find it, does anyone know\n where it is (gorilla.something.something.au), and what sort\n of cards it works for ?\n\n Also would it be pushing my luck to ask for someone to post\n it to some appropriate group.\n\n Kingsley Turner\n NSW Australia\n\n",
'From: hudson@athena.cs.uga.edu (Paul Hudson Jr)\nSubject: Re: Homosexuality issues in Christianity\nOrganization: University of Georgia, Athens\nLines: 15\n\nIn article <May.11.02.36.45.1993.28090@athos.rutgers.edu> news@cbnewsk.att.com writes:\n>Paul repeatedly talks about the\n>"thorn" in his side, some think it refers to lust, others pride, but\n>who knows. Whatever the thorn was, apparently it was not "compatible"\n>with Christianity, yet does that make his epistles any less?\n\nThere is no reason to believe that Paul\'s thorn in the flesh was \na sin in his life. That makes little sense in the light of Paul\'\nwritings taken in totality. He writes of how he presses for the\nmark, and keeps his body submitted. No doubt Paul had to struggle\nwith the flesh just like every Christian. Paul does associate his \nthorn with a Satanic messenger, and with physical infirmities and tribulation,\nbut not with a sin in his life.\n\nLink Hudson.\n',
"From: GWGREG01@ukcc.uky.edu\nSubject: Re: Pregnency without sex?\nNntp-Posting-Host: ukcc.uky.edu\nOrganization: The University of Kentucky\nX-Newsreader: NNR/VM S_1.3.2\nLines: 27\n\nIn article <C6BotF.137@r-node.hub.org>\ntaob@r-node.hub.org (Brian Tao) writes:\n \n>In article <1993Apr27.182155.23426@oswego.Oswego.EDU>, Harry Matthews writes...\n>>\n>> I've heard of community swimming pools refered to as PUBLIC URINALS so what\n>> else is going on?\n>\n> Do you swim nude in a public swimming pool? :) I doubt sperm can\n>penetrate swimsuit material, assuming they aren't immediately dispersed\n>by water currents.\n>--\n>Brian Tao:: taob@r-node.hub.org (r-Node BBS, 416-249-5366, FREE!)\n>::::::::::: 90taobri@wave.scar.utoronto.ca (University of Toronto)\n \nHere we go again.\n \n========================================================================\n \nU UK K UNIVERSITY GARY W. GREGORY\nU UK K OF KENTUCKY GWGREG01@UKCC.UKY.EDU\nU UKKK __________________________________________________________\nUU UUK KK\n UUU K KK DEPARTMENT OF OB/GYN\n MS 335 MEDICAL CENTER\n LEXINGTON, KENTUCKY 40536-0084\n=====================================================================\n",
'From: stanley@skyking.OCE.ORST.EDU (John Stanley)\nSubject: Re: Krillean Photography\nOrganization: University Computing Services - Oregon State University\nLines: 7\nNNTP-Posting-Host: skyking.oce.orst.edu\n\nIn article <C6Bot5.12A@r-node.hub.org> taob@r-node.hub.org writes:\n>In article <C65oIL.436@vuse.vanderbilt.edu>, Alexander P. Zijdenbos writes...\n>> I am neither a real believer, nor a disbeliever when it comes to\n> But no one (or at least, not many people) are trying to pass off God\n\nWill you please keep this crap out of sci.image.processing?\n\n',
"From: raunoh@otol.fi (Rauno Haapaniemi)\nSubject: REAL-3D\nNntp-Posting-Host: janus.otol.fi\nReply-To: raunoh@otol.fi\nOrganization: Oulu Institute of Technology\nLines: 12\n\nEarlier today I read an ad for REAL-3D animation & ray-tracing software and\nit looked very convincing to me. However, I don't own an Amiga and so I began \nto wonder, if there's a PC version of it.\n\nSo, has anyone seen/used REAl-3D for DOS??\n\n---\nRauno 'Rene' Haapaniemi I Every word of it are true,\nHaapanatie 2D 409 I except for those that are lies...\n90150 OULU I\nreneh@otol.fi I Douglas Adams\n\n",
'From: JEK@cu.nih.gov\nSubject: Mary, "blessed among women"\nLines: 23\n\nDave Bernard writes:\n\n > When Elizabeth greeted Mary with the words: "Blessed art thou\n > among women" (Luke 1:42), it appears that this places Mary\n > beyond the sanctification of normal humanity.\n\nBut Deborah says (Judges 5:24):\n\n > Blessed among women shall be Jael the wife of Heber the Kenite,\n > Blessed above all women in the tents.\n\nIt can doubtless be taken that Jael\'s slaying of Sisera was a type\nof Mary\'s victory over sin. But even if we take Deborah\'s words as\napplying prophetically or symbolically to Mary, they must still be\napplicable literally to Jael. We may well take them to mean that\nGod used her as a part of His plan for the deliverance of His\npeople, and that she has this in common with Mary. But we have no\nreason to suppose that they mean that she was sinless, and thus no\nreason to take the like expression applied to Mary as proof that she\nwas sinless.\n\n Yours,\n James Kiefer\n',
'From: "Gabriel D. Underwood" <gabe+@CMU.EDU>\nSubject: Re: Pregnency without sex?\nOrganization: Junior, Math/Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA\nLines: 11\n\t<1993Apr27.182155.23426@oswego.Oswego.EDU>\nNNTP-Posting-Host: po2.andrew.cmu.edu\nIn-Reply-To: <1993Apr27.182155.23426@oswego.Oswego.EDU>\n\nI heard a great Civil War story... A guy on the battlfield is shot\nin the groin, the bullet continues on it\'s path, and lodges in the\nabdomen of a female spectator. Lo and behold....\n\nAs the legend goes, both parents survived, married, and raised the child.\n\n--\n"Death. Taxes. Math. Jazz."\n- Wean Hall Bathroom Graffiti\nGabriel Underwood\ngabe+@cmu.edu\n',
'From: gchin@ssf.Eng.Sun.COM (Gary Chin)\nSubject: Re: Homosexuality issues in Christianity\nReply-To: gchin@ssf.Eng.Sun.COM\nOrganization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.\nLines: 27\n\nIn article 27611@athos.rutgers.edu, mls@panix.com (Michael Siemon) writes:\n>In <May.7.01.08.16.1993.14381@athos.rutgers.edu> whitsebd@nextwork.rose-hulman.edu (Bryan Whitsell) writes:\n>Homosexual Christians have indeed "checked out" these verses. Some of\n>them are used against us only through incredibly perverse interpretations.\n>Others simply do not address the issues.\n>\n>You would seem to be more in need of a careful and Spirit-led course\n>in exegesis than most of the gay Christians I know. I suggest that\n>you stop "proof-texting" about things you know nothing about.\n\nLet me say that the life, death, and resurrection of Jesus Christ is\ncentral to Christianity. If you personally believe that Jesus Christ\ndied for you, you are a part of the Christian body of believers.\n\nWe are all still human. We don\'t know it all, but homosexual or heterosexual,\nwe all strive to follow Jesus. The world is dying and needs to hear about\nJesus Christ.\n\nAre you working together with other Christians to spread the Gospel?\n\n|-------------------|\n| Gary Chin |\n| Staff Engineer |\n| Sun Microsystems |\n| Mt. View, CA |\n| gchin@Eng.Sun.Com |\n|-------------------|\n',
'From: sigma@rahul.net (Kevin Martin)\nSubject: Re: TIFF: philosophical significance of 42 (SILLY)\nNntp-Posting-Host: bolero\nOrganization: a2i network\nLines: 26\n\nIn <C5wD3w.Bqs@skates.gsfc.nasa.gov> xrcjd@mudpuppy.gsfc.nasa.gov (Charles J. Divine) writes:\n>In article <1r3lf9$fu0@geraldo.cc.utexas.edu> Mark A. Cartwright <markc@emx.utexas.edu> writes:\n>>Of course the Question has not yet been discovered...\n>But the Question was later revealed to be: What is 9 x 6? (In the\n>base 13 system, of course.)\n\nIf you read the last couple of books in the series closely (well, #3 and #4\nat least), there are at least two points at which the real Question is\nimplied. Conversations proceed much like:\n\nZaphod: What *is* the ultimate Question, I wonder?\nArthur (not paying much attention to Zaphod, but needing a random seed for\n the Infinite Improbability Drive): Think of a number, any number.\n\nActually, it may be Marvin who uses this phrase a few times as well, and\neverytime it\'s arranged such that "Think of a number, any number" could be\nan answer to someone\'s question about the Question.\n\nI kind of like it. Very mystifying. It\'s not even "pick a number" or\n"tell me a number", just "think of one".\n\n\n-- \nKevin Martin\nsigma@rahul.net\n"Use the flipper!"\n',
'From: swf@elsegundoca.ncr.com (Stan Friesen)\nSubject: Re: After 2000 years, can we say that Christian Morality is\nOrganization: NCR Teradata Database Business Unit\nLines: 74\n\n[This is SWF in another indirect post via Dan].\n\nIn article <1993Apr20.150829.27925@asl.dl.nec.com>,\nduffy@aslss02.asl.dl.nec.com (Joseph Duffy) writes:\n|> In article <1993Apr17.184948.4847@microsoft.com>\nrusspj@microsoft.com (Russ Paul-Jones) writes:\n|> >\n|> >The same way that any theory is proven false. You examine the\npredicitions\n|> >that the theory makes, and try to observe them. If you don\'t, or\nif you\n|> >observe things that the theory predicts wouldn\'t happen, then you\nhave some\n|> >evidence against the theory. If the theory can\'t be modified to\n|> >incorporate the new observations, then you say that it is false.\n|>\n|> But how does one handle the nonrepeatability of the experiment? In\nmany types of\n|> experiments the "prediction" is that the observed phenomena will\nhappen again\n|> and be capable of being observed. For example, in chemistry someone\nmay predict\n|> the outcome of a chemical reaction and then actually observe that\nreaction\n|> repeatedly.\n\nThere are several problems here. First, you are discussing only\nexperimental procedures. Observational procedures are also useful. The\nmain criterion is attempting to verify an idea by using it to make\nprediction about as-yet unmade observations. The observations could be\nthe result of an experiment, or they could be obsevations of activity\noccuring spontaneossly in nature, or they could even be observations of\nthe lasting results of events long past. All that matters is that the\nobservations be *new*. This is what prediction is about in science -\nit is\n*not* about predicting the future except in this very restricted\nsense.\n\nSecondly, repeatability can also take many forms. It is really just\nthe\nrequirement that independent observers be able to verify the results.\nThe\nobservation of a fossil is \'repeatable\', since any qualified observer\nmay\nlook at it (this is why the specimens are reqtined in a museum). Also,\nthere is the implicit prediction that future fossil finds will\ncorrespond\nto the current one. New fossils are found often enough that this is\ntested regularly. Many times a new fossil actually falsifies some\nconclusion made on the basis of previous fossils.\n\nUnfortunately for you, the models that were falsified have alway been\nperipheral to the model of evolution we now have. (For instance, the\nfront legs of Tyrannosaurus rex turned out to have tremendous muscles,\nrather than being weakly endowed as previously believed).\n\nSo, in fact, histoircal science findings *are* repeatable in the\nnecessary sense. Just becuase you cannot go out and repeat the\noriginal\nevent does *not* make it impossible to make valid observations.\n\n[This is not to say that biologists would not go coo-coo if extra-\nterrestrial life were discovered - that could make the determination\nof the process of abiogenesis relatively easy].\n\n--\nsarima@teradata.com (formerly tdatirv!sarima)\n or\nStanley.Friesen@ElSegundoCA.ncr.com\n\nsarima@teradata.com\t\t\t(formerly tdatirv!sarima)\n or\nStanley.Friesen@ElSegundoCA.ncr.com\n\n',
'From: graeme@labtam.labtam.oz.au (Graeme Gill)\nSubject: Re: gamma correction\nOrganization: Labtam Australia Pty. Ltd., Melbourne, Australia\nSummary: Here is a FAQ contribution on gamma:\nLines: 184\n\nIn article <1t31meINNrc8@gap.caltech.edu>, madler@cco.caltech.edu (Mark Adler) writes:\n> \n> Can someone who knows what they\'re talking about add a FAQ entry\n> on gamma correction? Thanks.\n\nI get regular questions about gamma correction since I go to great pains to\ndeal with it properly in xli (the image loader program I maintain).\n\nHere is an explanation I often use to answer these questions.\n\nThis might be suitable for inclusion in the FAQ.\n\n\tGraeme Gill.\n\n###########################################################################\n"A note on gamma correction and images"\n\nAuthor: Graeme W. Gill\n graeme@labtam.oz.au\n\nDate: 93/5/16\n\n\n"What is all this gamma stuff anyway ?"\n--------------------------------------\n\nAlthough it would be nice to think that "an image is an image",\nthere are a lot of complications. Not only are there a whole bunch of\ndifferent image formats (gif, jpeg, tiff etc etc), there is a whole\nlot of other technical stuff that makes dealing with images a bit\ncomplicated. Gamma is one of those things. If you\'ve ever downloaded\nimages from BBS or the net, you\'ve probably noticed (with most image\nviewing programs) that some images look ok, some look too dark, and some\nlook too light. "Why is this ?" you may ask. This, is gamma correction\n(or the lack of it).\n\nWhy do we need gamma correction at all ?\n--------------------------------------\n\nGamma correction is needed because of the nature of CRTs (cathode\nray tubes - the monitors usually used for viewing images). If you\nhave some sort of real live scene and turn it into a computer\nimage by measuring the amount of light coming from each point of\nthe scene, then you have created a "linear" or un-gamma-corrected\nimage. This is a good thing in many ways because you can manipulate\nthe image as if the values in the image file were light (ie. adding\nand multiplying will work just like real light in the real world).\nNow if you take the image file and turn each pixel value into a voltage\nand feed it into a CRT, you find that the CRT _doesn\'t_ give you\nan amount of light proportional to the voltage. The amount of light\ncoming from the phosphor in the screen depends on the the voltage\nsomething like this:\n\nLight_out = voltage ^ crt_gamma\n\nSo if you just dump your nice linear image out to a CRT, the image\nwill look much too dark. To fix this up you have to "gamma correct"\nthe image first. You need to do the opposite of what the CRT\nwill do to the image, so that things cancel out, and you get\nwhat you want. So you have to do this to your image:\n\ngamma_corrected_image = image ^ (1/crt_gamma)\n\nFor most CRTs, the crt_gamma is somewhere between 1.0 and 3.0.\n\nIf that is all it is, why does it seem so complicated ?\n-----------------------------------------------------\n\nThe problem is that not all display programs do gamma correction.\nAlso not all sources of images give you linear images (Video cameras\nor video signals in general). Because of this, a lot of images\nalready have some gamma correction done to them, and you are \nrarely sure how much. If you try and display one of those images\nwith a program that does gamma correction for you, the image gets\ncorrected twice and looks way to light. If you display one of those\nimages with a program that doesn\'t do gamma correction, then it will\nlook vaguely right, but not perfect, because the gamma correction is\nnot exactly right for you particular CRT.\n\nWhose fault is all this ?\n-----------------------\n\nIt is really three things. One is all those display programs\nout there that don\'t do gamma correction properly. Another is\nthat most image formats don\'t specify a standard gamma, or\ndon\'t have some way or recording what their gamma correction is.\nThe third thing is that not many people understand what gamma\ncorrection is all about, and create a lot of images with varying\ngamma\'s.\n\nAt least two file formats do the right thing.\nThe Utah Graphics Toolkit .rle format has a semi-standard way of recording\nthe gamma of an image. The JFIF file standard (that uses JPEG compression)\nspecifies that the image to be encoded must have a gamma of 1.0 (ie. a\nlinear image - but not everyone obeys the rules).\n\nSome image loaders (for instance xli - an X11 image utility)\nallow you to specify not only the gamma of the monitor you\nare using, but the individual gamma values of image you are trying to\nview. Other image viewers (eg. xv another X11 image program) and\nutilities (eg. the pbm toolkit) provide ways of changing the gamma\nof an image, but you have to figure out the overall gamma correction\nyourself, allowing for undoing any gamma correction the image has,\nand then the gamma correction you need to suite your CRT monitor.\n\n[ Note that xv 2.21 doesn\'t provide an easy way of modifying the\ngamma of an image. You need to adjust the R, G and B curves to the\nappropriate gamma in the ColEdit controls. Altering the Intensity\nin the HSV controls doesn\'t do the right thing, as it fails to\ntake account of the effect gamma has on H and S. This tends\nto give a tint to the image. ]\n\nHow can I figure out what my viewer does, or what gamma my screen has ?\n---------------------------------------------------------------------\n\nThe simplest way to do that is to try loading the file chkgamma.jpg\n(provided with xli distribution), which is a JFIF jpeg format file\ncontaining two grayscale ramps. The ramps are chosen to look linear\nto the human eye, one using continuous tones, and the other using\ndithering. If your viewer does the right thing and gamma corrects\nimages, then the two ramps should look symmetrical, and the point\nat which they look equally bright should be almost exactly half\nway from the top to the bottom. (To find this point it helps if\nyou move away a little from the screen, and de-focus your eyes a\nbit.)\n\nIf your viewer doesn\'t do gamma correction, then left hand ramp will have\na long dark part and a short white part, and the point of equal brightness\nwill be above the center.\n\nIf your viewer does have a way of setting the right amount of gamma correction\nfor a display, then if the equal brightness point is above center increase the\ngamma, and decrease it if it is below the center. The value will usually be\naround 2.2 \n\n[with xli for instance, you can adjust the display gamma with the\n-dispgamma flag, and once you\'ve got it right, you can set the DISPLAY_GAMMA\nenvironment variable in your .profile]\n\nHow do I figure out what the gamma of an image is ?\n-------------------------------------------------\n\nThis is the most tricky bit. As a general rule it seems that a lot of\ntrue color (ie. 24 bit, .ppm .jpg) images have a gamma of\n1.0 (linear), although there are many about that have some gamma\ncorrection. It seems that the majority of pseudo color images\n(ie. 8 bit images with color maps - .gif etc.) are gamma corrected\nto some degree or other.\n\nIf your viewer does gamma correction then linear images will\nlook good, and gamma corrected images will look too light.\n\nIf your viewer doesn\'t do gamma correction, then linear images will\nlook too dark, and gamma corrected images will ok.\n\nWhy Linear images are sometimes not such a good thing\n-----------------------------------------------------\n\nOne of the reason that many high quality formats (such as\nVideo) use gamma correction is that it actually makes better\nuse of the storage medium. This is because the human\neye has a logarithmic response to light, and gamma correction\nhas a similar compression characteristic. This means images \ncould make better use of 8 bits per color (for instance),\nif they used gamma correction. The implication though, is that\nevery time you want to do any image processing you should\nconvert the 8 bit image to 12 or so linear bits to retain\nthe same accuracy. Since little popular software does this, and\nnone of the popular image formats can agree on a standard\ngamma correction factor, it is difficult to justify gamma corrected\nimages at the popular level.\n\nIf some image formats can standardize on a particular gamma,\nand if image manipulation software takes care to use\nextra precision when dealing with linearized internal data,\nthen gamma corrected distribution of images would be a good thing.\n\n(I am told that the Kodak PhotoCD format for instance, has a\nstandard gamma correction factor that enables it to get the\nhighest quality out of the bits used to hold the image).\n\n###########################################################################\n\n\n',
'From: sfp@lemur.cit.cornell.edu (Sheila Patterson)\nSubject: Re: Mary\'s assumption\nOrganization: Cornell University CIT\nLines: 22\n\nIn article <May.11.02.37.01.1993.28111@athos.rutgers.edu>, mpaul@unl.edu (marxhausen paul) writes:|> feeling that "the assumption of Mary" would be better phrased "our\n\n[text deleted] \n|> I also don\'t see the _necessity_ of saying the Holy Parents were some-\n|> how sanctified beyond normal humanity: it sounds like our own inability\n|> to grasp the immensity of God\'s grace in being incarnated through an or-\n|> dinary human being. \n|> \n[text deleted]\n|> --\n|> paul marxhausen \n\nThank you very much Paul. I have always been impressed by the very human-ness of\nMary. That God chose a woman, like me, to bring into this world the incarnation\nof Himself proves to me that this God is MY God. He reaches down from His\nperfection to touch me. Ah, the wonder of it all :-)\n\n-- \n Sheila Patterson, CIT CR-Technical Support Group\n 315 CCC - Cornell University\n Ithaca, NY 14853\n (607) 255-5388\n',
'From: decay@cbnewsj.cb.att.com (dean.kaflowitz)\nSubject: Re: YOU WILL ALL GO TO HELL!!!\nOrganization: AT&T\nDistribution: na\nLines: 28\n\nIn article <healta.176.735768613@saturn.wwc.edu>, healta@saturn.wwc.edu (Tammy R Healy) writes:\n> In article <1993Apr25.020546.22426@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> kcochran@nyx.cs.du.edu (Keith "Justified And Ancient" Cochran) writes:\n> >From: kcochran@nyx.cs.du.edu (Keith "Justified And Ancient" Cochran)\n> >Subject: Re: YOU WILL ALL GO TO HELL!!!\n> >Date: Sun, 25 Apr 93 02:05:46 GMT\n> >In article <8473@pharaoh.cyborg.bt.co.uk> martin@pharaoh.cyborg.bt.co.uk (Martin Gorman) writes:\n> >>JSN104@psuvm.psu.edu writes:\n> >>\n> >>>YOU BLASHEPHEMERS!!! YOU WILL ALL GO TO HELL FOR NOT BELIEVING IN GOD!!!! BE\n> >>>PREPARED FOR YOUR ETERNAL DAMNATION!!!\n> >>>\n> >>Oh fuck off.\n> >\n> >Actually, I just think he\'s confused. *I\'m* going to hell because I\'m Gay,\n> >not becuase I don\'t believe in God.\n> >\n> >(I wonder if that means I can\'t come to Tammy & Deans picnic?)\n> \n> Of course you can come. I said "ALL a.a posters are invited" and I didn\'t \n> put a "No homosexual" clause. Bring some munchies and join the party!!!\n> I can\'t imagine Dean objecting, either.\n\nKnowing Keith, I expect he\'ll bring the leather accessories.\n\nBetter oil it well. Leather cracks when it dries.\n\nDean Kaflowitz\n\n',
'From: mathew <mathew@mantis.co.uk>\nSubject: Discordian & SubGenius books, addresses etc.\nDistribution: world\nOrganization: Mantis Consultants, Cambridge. UK.\nLines: 204\n\nAs requested, here are some addresses of sources of bizarre religious satire\nand commentary... Plus some bijou book reviewettes.\n\n---\n\nLoompanics Unlimited\nPO Box 1197\nPort Townsend, WA 98368. USA.\n\nPublishers of one of the most infamous mail-order book catalogue in the \nworld. Anarchism, Discordianism, Libertarianism, cryogenics, money-making\n(legal and illegal), privacy and security, self-defense, and all kinds of\nother stuff that keeps Christians awake at nights.\n\n---\n\nThe Church of the SubGenius\nPO Box 140306\nDallas, TX 75214. USA.\n\nThe original end times church for post-human mutants; a high temple for \nscoffers, mockers and blasphemers. Be one of the few to board the X-ist \nsaucers in 1998 and escape Space God JHVH-1\'s stark fist of removal. J.R.\n"Bob" Dobbs, God of Sales, is waiting to take your money and ordain you. \nMagazines, sick audio cassettes, and assorted offensive cynisacreligious \nmaterial. Periodic lists of addresses of Pink religious cults and contact\npoints for the world wierdo network.\n\nExpect a slow response to mail. Only conspiracies are well-organized. You\nwill eventually get what you pay for if you give them some slack.\n\n---\n\nCounter Productions\nPO Box 556\nLondon SE5 0RL\nUK\n\nA UK source of obscure books. A wide-ranging selection; Surrealism, \nAnarchism, SubGenius, Discordianism, Robert Anton Wilson, Lovecraftian \nhorror, Cyberpunk, Forteana, political and social commentary, Wilhelm Reich,\nOrgone tech, obscure rock music, SF, and so on. Send an SAE (and maybe a\nbribe, they need your money) and ask for a catalogue. Tell them mathew sent\nyou. I\'ve ordered from these folks three or four times now, and they\'re\nabout as fast and efficient as you can expect from this sort of operation.\n\n---\n\nForbidden Planet\nVarious sites in the UK; in particular, along London\'s New Oxford Street, just \ndown the road from Tottenham Court Road tube station.\n\nMass market oddness. SubGenius, Robert Anton Wilson, Loompanics, and of \ncourse huge quantities of SF. Not a terribly good selection, but they\'re in\nthe high street.\n\n---\n\nREVIEWETTE: "Loompanics\' Greatest Hits"\nISBN 1-55950-031-X (Loompanics)\n\nA selection of articles picked from the books in Loompanics\' catalogue. \nSubjects include:\n\n * Christian Dispensationalism -- how right-wing Christians encouraged \n the Cold War\n * Satanic Child Abuse myths\n * Religion and censorship\n \nPlus lots of anarchist and libertarian stuff, situationism, computers and \nprivacy, and so on. Guaranteed to contain at least one article that\'ll \noffend you -- like, for example, the interview with Bradley R. Smith, the \nHolocaust Revisionist. A good sampling of stuff in a coffee table book. (Of\ncourse, whether you want to leave this sort of stuff lying around on your\ncoffee table is another matter.)\n\nQUOTE:\n\n"The fundamentalists leap up and down in apoplectic rage and joy. Their \nworst fantasies are vindicated, and therefore (or so they like to think), \ntheir entire theology and socio-political agenda is too. Meanwhile, teen-age\nmisanthropes and social misfits murder their enemies, classmates, families,\nfriends, even complete strangers, all because they read one of Anton LaVey\'s\ncooks or listened to one too many AC/DC records. The born-agains are ready\nto burn again, and not just books this time."\n\n---\n\nREVIEWETTE: "The Book of the SubGenius", J.R. Dobbs & the SubGenius Foundation\nISBN 0-671-63810-6 (Simon & Schuster)\n\nDescribed by \'Rolling Stone\' as "A sick masterpiece for those who can still\nlaugh at the fact that nothing is funny anymore." The official Bible of the\nSubGenius Church, containing the sacred teachings of J.R. "Bob" Dobbs. \nInstant answers to everything; causes catalytic brain cell loss in seconds;\nthe secret of total slack; how to relax in the safety of your delusions and\npull the wool over your own eyes; nuclear doom and other things to laugh at.\n\nQUOTE:\n\n"He has been known to answer questions concerning universal truths with \nscreams. With suggestive silence. By peeing down his pants leg. His most\nfamous sermon was of cosmic simplicity: "Bob" standing on the stage with his\nhands in his pockets, smoking, looking around and saying nothing. Heated\narguments still rage among the monks, often erupting into fatal duels, as\ntowhether the Master consulted his wristwatch during this divine period of\nGrace."\n\n--\n\nREVIEWETTE: "High Weirdness by Mail", Rev. Ivan Stang\nISBN 0-671-64260-X (Simon & Schuster)\n\nAn encyclopedia of wierd organizations you can contact by mail. Space \nJesuses, Christian vs Christian, UFO contactees, New Age saps, Creationists,\nFlat Earthers, White Supremacist churches, plus (yawn) CSICOP, Sceptical\nEnquirer and stuff like that. Not just a list of addresses, though, as each\nkook group is ruthlessly mocked and ridiculed with sarcastic glee. If you\nlike alt.atheism\'s flame wars, this is the book for you. Made me laugh until\nmy stomach ached. Revised edition due some time in the next year or two.\n\nSAMPLE ENTRY:\n\n Entertaining Demons Unawares\n Southwest Radio Church\n PO Box 1144\n Oklahoma City, OK 73101\n\n "Your Watchman on the Wall." Another flagellating, genuflecting \n fundamentalist outfit. Their booklet "Entertaining Demons Unawares"\n exposes the Star Wars / E.T. / Dungeons & Dragons / Saturday morning\n cartoon / Satanic connection in horrifying detail. Left out Smurfs,\n though! I especially liked the bit about Wonder Woman\'s Antichrist origins.\n Keep in mind that once you send for anything from these people, you\'ll be\n on their mailing list for life.\n\n---\n\nREVIEWETTE: "The Abolition of Work", Bob Black\nISBN 0-915179-41-5 (Loompanics)\n\nA selection of Bob Black\'s painfully witty and intelligent anarchist tracts\ncollected into book form. If I were this good I\'d be insufferable.(*) \nProbably the only thought-provoking political book that\'s fun to read.\n\nQUOTE:\n\n"Babble about \'The wages of sin\' serves to cover up \'the sin of wages\'. We\nwant rights, not rites -- sex, not sects. Only Eros and Eris belong in our\npantheon. Surely the Nazarene necrophile has had his revenge by now. \nRemember, pain is just God\'s way of hurting you."\n\n---\n\nREVIEWETTE: "Principia Discordia", Malaclypse the Younger\nISBN 1-55950-040-9 (Loompanics)\n\nThe infamous Discordian Bible, reprinted in its entirety and then some. Yes,\nyou could FTP the online copy, but this one has all the pictures. Explains\nabsolutely everything, including the Law of Fives, how to start a Discordian\nCabal, and instructions for preaching Discordianism to Christians. \n\nQUOTE:\n\n"A Discordian is Required during his early Illumination to Go Off Alone & \nPartake Joyously of a Hot Dog on a Friday; this Devotive Caremony to \nRemonstrate against the popular Paganisms of the Day: of Catholic Christendom\n(no meat on Friday), of Judaism (no meat of Pork), of Hindic Peoples (no meat\nof Beef), of Buddhists (no meat of animal), and of Discordians (no Hot Dog\nBuns)."\n\n---\n\nREVIEWETTE: "Natural Law, or Don\'t Put a Rubber on Your Willy",\n Robert Anton Wilson\nISBN 0-915179-61-X (Loompanics)\n\nThe author of the Illuminatus trilogy rails against natural law, natural \nmorality, objective reality, and other pervasive myths. Witty and \nthought-provoking work from someone who actually seems to know an argument\nfrom a hole in the ground.\n\nQUOTE:\n\n"Since theological propositions are scientifically meaningless, those of us\nof pragmatic disposition simply won\'t buy such dubious merchandise. [...] \nMaybe -- remotely -- there might be something in such promotions, as there\nmight be something in the talking dogs and the stocks in Arabian tapioca\nmines that W.C. Fields once sold in his comedies, but we suspect that we\nrecognize a con game in operation. At least, we want to hear the dog talk or\nsee the tapioca ore before we buy into such deals."\n\n---\n\nAll of the books mentioned above should be available from Counter Productions\nin the UK, or directly from the SubGenius Foundation or Loompanics Unlimited.\n\n\nmathew\n[ (*) What do you mean I am anyway? ]\n-- \n"Dreamed I laid a toaster... Daddy caught me in the act. Can you take it?"\n -- DEVO\n\n',
'From: vrao@nyx.cs.du.edu (Vinay Rao)\nSubject: Perception of doctors and health care\nX-Disclaimer: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University\n\tof Denver for the Denver community. The University has neither\n\tcontrol over nor responsibility for the opinions of users.\nOrganization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept.\nDistribution: usa\nLines: 124\n\nThe following article by columnist Mike Royko is his humorous commentary\non some of the public\'s perception of doctors and their salaries.\nI hope some of you will find it as amusing as I did.\n\n____________________________________________________________________________\n[Reprinted w/o permission]\n\n\n"There\'s no cure for stupidity of poll on doctors\' salaries"\n\nBy Mike Royko\nTribune Media Services\n\n\n On a stupidity scale, a recent poll about doctors\' earnings \nis right up there. It almost scored a perfect brain-dead 10.\n It was commissioned by some whiny consumers group called \nFamilies USA.\n The poll tells us that the majority of Americans believe \nthat doctors make too much money.\n The pollsters also asked what a fair income would be for \nphysicians. Those polled said, oh, about $80,000 a year would be \nOK.\n How generous. How sporting. How stupid.\n Why is this poll stupid? Because it is based on resentment \nand envy, two emotions that ran hot during the political campaign \nand are still simmering.\n You could conduct the same kind of poll about any group that \nearns $100,000-plus and get the same results. Since the majority \nof Americans don\'t make those bucks, they assume that those who \ndo are stealing it from them.\n Maybe the Berlin Wall came down, but don\'t kid yourself. \nKarl Marx lives.\n It\'s also stupid because it didn\'t ask key questions, such \nas: Do you know how much education and training it takes to \nbecome a physician?\n If those polled said no, they didn\'t know, then they should \nhave been disqualified. If they gave the wrong answers, they \nshould have been dropped. What good are their views on how much \na doctor should earn if they don\'t know what it takes to become a \ndoctor?\n Or maybe a question should have been phrased this way: "How \nmuch should a person earn if he or she must (a) get excellent \ngrades and a fine educational foundation in high school in order \nto (b) be accepted by a good college and spend four years taking \ncourses heavy in math, physics, chemistry, and other lab work and \nmaintain a 3.5 average or better, and (c) spend four more years \nof grinding study in medical school, with the third and fourth \nyears in clinical training, working 80 to 100 hours a week, and \n(d) spend another year as a low-pay, hard-work intern, and (e) \nput in another three to 10 years of post-graduate training, \ndepending on your specialty and (f) maybe wind up $100,000 in \ndebt after medical school and (g) then work an average of 60 \nhours a week, with many family doctors putting in 70 hours or \nmore until they retire or fall over?"\n As you have probably guessed by now, I have considerably \nmore respect for doctors than does the law firm of Clinton and \nClinton, and all the lawyers and insurance executives they have \ncalled together to remake America\'s health care.\n Based on what doctors contribute to society, they are far \nmore useful than the power-happy, ego-tripping, program-spewing, \nsocial tinkerers who will probably give us a medical plan that is \nto health what Clinton\'s first budget is to frugality.\n But propaganda works. And, as the stupid poll indicates, \nmany Americans wrongly believe that profiteering doctors are the \nmajor cause of high medical costs.\n Of course doctors are well-compensated. They should be. \nAmericans now live longer than ever. But who is responsible for \nour longevity--lawyers, Congress, or the guy flipping burgers in \na McDonald\'s?\n And the doctors prolong our lives despite our having become \na nation of self-indulgent, lard-butted, TV-gaping couch \ncabbages.\n Ah, that is not something you heard President Clinton or \nSuper Spouse talk about during the campaign or since. But \ninstead of trying to turn the medical profession into a villain, \nthey might have been more honest if they had said:\n "Let us talk about medical care and one of the biggest \nproblems we have. That problem is you, my fellow American. Yes, \nyou, eating too much and eating the wrong foods; many of you \nguzzling too much hooch; still puffing away at $2.50 a pack; \ngetting your daily exercise by lumbering from the fridge to the \nmicrowave to the couch; doing dope and bringing crack babies into \nthe world; filling the big city emergency rooms with gunshot \nvictims; engaging in unsafe sex and catching a deadly disease \nwhile blaming the world for not finding an instant cure.\n "You and your habits, not the doctors, are the single \nbiggest health problem in this country. If anything, it is \namazing that the docs keep you alive as long as they do.\n "In fact, I don\'t understand how they can stand looking at \nyour blubbery bods all day.\n "So as your president, I call upon you to stop whining and \nstart living cleanly. Now I must go get myself a triple cheesy-\ngreasy with double fries. Do as I say, not as I do."\n But for those who truly believe that doctors are overpaid, \nthere is another solution: Don\'t use them.\n That\'s right. You don\'t feel well? Then try one of those \nspine poppers, needle twirlers, or have Rev. Bubba lay his hands \nupon your head and declare you fit.\n Or there is the do-it-yourself approach. You have chest \npains? Then sit in front of a mirror, make a slit here, a slit \nthere, and pop in a couple of valves.\n You\'re going to have a kid? Why throw your money at that \noverpaid sawbones so he can buy a better car and a bigger house \nthan you will ever have (while paying more in taxes and \nmalpractice insurance than you will ever earn)?\n Just have the kid the old-fashioned way. Squat and do it. \nAnd if it survives, you can go to the library and find a book on \nhow to give it its shots.\n By the way, has anyone ever done a poll on how much \npollsters should earn?\n\n\nRoyko is a Pulitzer Prize-winning columnist for Tribune Media \nServices.\n\n____________________________________________________________________________\n\n\n--\n**********************************************\nVinay J. Rao vrao@nyx.cs.du.edu\n**********************************************\n\n',
'From: Rick_Granberry@pts.mot.com (Rick Granberry)\nSubject: Re: FAQ essay on homosexuality\nLines: 62\n\nBefore you finalize your file in the FAQs (or after), you might want to \ncorrect the typo in the following:\n\n> Kinsey (see below) is the source \n> of the figure 10 percent. He defines sexuality by behavior, not by \n> orientation, and ranked all persons on a scale from Zero (completely \n> heterosexual) to 6 (completely heterosexual).\n\nIt seems one or the other end of the rating scale should be identified with \n"homosexual".\n\nAs a personal note, I guess I differ with you on the question of work \nentering human life as a result of sin. \n> Note that in the \n> creation story work enters human life as a result of sin.\n \nBefore the fall (Gen 2:15) "And the LORD God took the man, and put him into \nthe garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it." which I would call "work". \nFor me, the difference introduced by sin is the painful aspects of work added \nat the fall (I take the cursing of the ground in vs.17-19 to apply to the \nwork for sustenance). In a way, some view "work" as a blessing (Ecclesiastes \nis a fun book! - for melancholies).\n\nI hope I do not sound caustic, maybe you can enlighten me further.\n\nWell, this is certainly a delicate subject, and I guess you accomplished what \nyou state as your purpose "It summarizes arguments for allowing Christian \nhomosexuality", not for me the most noble goal, but you are writing a FAQ.\n\nI wonder if you might temporize the apparent "sentence" of the specific \nhomosexual you propose (arguably tenuously define).\n> The danger in advising Christians to\n> depend upon such a change is clear: When "conversion" doesn\'t happen,\n> which is almost always, the people are often left in despair, feeling\n> excluded from a Church that has nothing more to say but a requirement\n> of life-long celibacy. \n Perhaps that would be true of "celibacy from homosexual relations", or \nrefrainng from their choice relationships, but that does not forbid \nheterosexual. Could they not have/enjoy heterosexual relations "for what it \nwas worth"?\n \n[This depends upon the person. In some cases I think the answer is\nno. Even with those who could, consider what you\'re asking. I assume\nwe\'re talking about marriage -- I certainly would not want to suggest\nsex outside that. You\'re talking about a permanent commitment to a\nkind of sexual relationship that they aren\'t really sure they can live\nwith. There may be people for whom this is a possible solution, but I\nwonder whether it\'s entirely fair to the other partner. I have a\ncousin who was a victim of exactly this situation. We found out later\n(after her death) that her husband had had problems with his sexual\nidentity. His family (conservative Christians) knew it, and pushed\nhim into getting married. He continued having problems, and they were\nnear divorce. She died in an accident whose circumstances some of the\nrelatives consider odd. He has since had a sex change operation, and\nhas been moving around from state to state without being able to hold\na job, keeping their children in a kind of home life both sets of\ngrandparents consider irresponsible. I hope you can understand why I\nam not enthusiastic about pushing homosexuals into marriage. I really\nliked my cousin. This is sort of an emotional issue for me. Again,\nit may be possible for some, but this is the sort of situation that\nneeds to be dealt with pastorally and not as a matter of fixed\nideology. --clh]\n',
'From: lilley@v5.cgu.mcc.ac.uk (Chris Lilley)\nSubject: Re: CorelDraw BITMAP to SCODAL (2)\nLines: 38\nReply-To: C.C.Lilley@mcc.ac.uk\nOrganization: Computer Graphics Unit, MCC\n\n\nIn article <1r4gmgINN8fm@zephyr.grace.cri.nz>, srlnjal@grace.cri.nz writes:\n\n>Yes I am aware CorelDraw exports in SCODAL.\n>Version 2 did it quite well, apart from a\n>few hassles with radial fills. Version 3 RevB\n>is better but if you try to export in SCODAL\n>with a bitmap image included in the drawing\n>it will say something like "cannot export\n>SCODAL with bitmap"- at least it does on my\n>version.\n\nOh. OK then, sorry for misunderstanding.\n\n> If anyone out there knows a way around this\n>I am all ears.\n> Temporal images make a product called Filmpak\n>which converts Autocad plots to SCODAL, postscript\n>to SCODAL and now GIF to SCODAL but it costs $650\n>and I was just wondering if there was anything out\n>there that just did the bitmap to SCODAL part a tad\n>cheaper.\n\nMaybee you should persuade your burea that for only $650 they can become much\nmore competitive, taking input from Autocad, PostScript andGif as well as\nSCODL... \n\nSeriously, this sounds like something the bureau should have. Or find another\nbureau. You should not be the one buting this software.\n\n--\nChris Lilley\n----------------------------------------------------------------------------\nTechnical Author, ITTI Computer Graphics and Visualisation Training Project\nComputer Graphics Unit, Manchester Computing Centre, Oxford Road, \nManchester, UK. M13 9PL Internet: C.C.Lilley@mcc.ac.uk \nVoice: +44 (0)61 275 6045 Fax: +44 (0)61 275 6040 Janet: C.C.Lilley@uk.ac.mcc\n------------------------------------------------------------------------------\n',
"From: danb@shell.portal.com (Dan E Babcock)\nSubject: Re: Amusing atheists and agnostics\nNntp-Posting-Host: jobe\nOrganization: Portal Communications Company -- 408/973-9111 (voice) 408/973-8091 (data)\nLines: 20\n\nIn article <ofp1qP600VpdINppwh@andrew.cmu.edu> Nanci Ann Miller <nm0w+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:\n>timmbake@mcl.ucsb.edu (Bake Timmons) writes:\n>> There lies the hypocrisy, dude. Atheism takes as much faith as theism. \n>> Admit it!\n>\n>Besides... not believing in a god means one doesn't have to deal with all\n>of the extra baggage that comes with it! This leaves a person feeling\n>wonderfully free, especially after beaten over the head with it for years!\n>I agree that religion and belief is often an important psychological healer\n>for many people and for that reason I think it's important. However,\n>trying to force a psychological fantasy (I don't mean that in a bad way,\n>but that's what it really is) on someone else who isn't interested is\n>extremely rude. What if I still believed in Santa Claus and said that my\n\nIt should be noted that belief in God is in itself no more a behavoral\nimperative than lack of belief. It is religion which causes the harm,\nnot the belief in God. \n \nDan\n\n",
'From: stephen@mont.cs.missouri.edu (Stephen Montgomery-Smith)\nSubject: Earwax\nKeywords: earwax\nOrganization: University of Missouri\nLines: 6\n\nWhat is the healthiest way to deal with earwax? Should one just leave\nit in your ear and not mess with it, or should you clean it out\nevery so often? Can cleaning it out damage your eardrums?\nAre there any tubes in your ear that might get blocked?\n\nStephen\n',
"From: broehl@sunee.uwaterloo.ca (Bernie Roehl)\nSubject: Re: Optimizing projections\nOrganization: University of Waterloo\nLines: 31\n\nIn article <1sua3tINNqs2@no-names.nerdc.ufl.edu> LIONESS@ufcc.ufl.edu writes:\n>My three-d library does a lot of projections ( duh ), but currently it\n>is projecting an object's vertices on a _per triangle basis_. This is\n>grossly inefficient for 99% of the objects displayed ( which can\n>be optimized by doing projections ONE time, once for each vertex ), but\n>objects whose Z-extents intersect the hither plane can't benefit from\n>this because new vertices must be created during Z-clipping.\n\n>Anyone have any better ideas?\n\nYes. Here's what you should do.\n\nKeep the vertices in an array, and have the polygons (triangles are okay,\nbut n-sided polygons are slightly more efficient) store the indices into\nthe array of the vertices that comprise them. You set a flag for each\nvertex when you transform it, so you don't have to transform any vertex\nmore than once; you also do backface elimination before processing the\npolygon, so that vertices that belong only to bacfacing polys don't have\nto be transformed at all.\n\nWhenever you transform a vertex, check if it's on the far side of the hither\nplane; if it is, you can project it right away and store the result.\n\nThen do your Z clip; any vertices that get produced will have to have their\nprojection done at that stage.\n\n-- \n\tBernie Roehl\n University of Waterloo Dept of Electrical and Computer Engineering\n\tMail: broehl@sunee.UWaterloo.ca\n\tVoice: (519) 885-1211 x 2607 [work]\n",
"From: UC512052@mizzou1.missouri.edu (David K. Drum)\nSubject: What has happened to DKB-L@TREARN???\nOrganization: University of Missouri\nX-Posted-From: mizzou1.missouri.edu\nNNTP-Posting-Host: sol.ctr.columbia.edu\nLines: 12\n\nHello,\n \nI've been on the DKBtrace/PoVray mailing list out of trearn.bitnet\nfor some time now, but when I tried to post the other day the\nlistserv told me that the list doesn't exist! So I got a global\nlist of groups from the listserv and - - NOTHING! I grepped every\nstring I could think of. If Frank, Ville Saari, Andre Beck, or anyone\nelse who's a regular on DKB-L can tell me what is going on, please do!\n \nRegards,\n \nDavid K. Drum uc512052@mizzou1.missouri.edu\n",
'From: Eugene.Bigelow@ebay.sun.com (Geno )\nSubject: Re: SJ Mercury\'s reference to Fundamentali\nReply-To: Eugene.Bigelow@ebay.sun.com\nOrganization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.\nLines: 18\n\nIn article <May.11.02.37.07.1993.28120@athos.rutgers.edu>, dan@ingres.com (a Rose arose) writes:\n|> \t"Raised in Oakland and San Lorenzo by strict fundamentalist\n|> \tChristian parents, Mason was beaten as a child. ...\n\n|> Were the San Jose Mercury news to come out with an article starting with\n|> "Raised in Oakland by Mexican parents, Mason was beaten...", my face would\n\n>Perhaps because there is a connection here that is not there in the Mexican\n>variant you bring up.\n\nThis is true. The statement didn\'t say anything about Christians in general.\nIt specifically said "strict fundamentalist" Christians. It reflects a\ncommon perception that people have about fundamentalists being strict\ndisciplinarians. Whether or not this perception is justified is another issue.\n\n\n[The other reading is that they are distinguishing between strict\nand relaxed fundamentalists. --clh]\n',
'From: turpin@cs.utexas.edu (Russell Turpin)\nSubject: Re: Need info on Circumcision, medical cons and pros\nOrganization: CS Dept, University of Texas at Austin\nLines: 25\nNNTP-Posting-Host: im4u.cs.utexas.edu\n\n-*----\nIn article <C63yG5.8tH@cs.uiuc.edu> blix@milton.cs.uiuc.edu (Gunnar Blix) writes:\n> I need information on the medical (including emotional :-) pros and\n> cons of circumcision (at birth). ...\n\nI pity those who hope that medical knowledge can resolve issues\nsuch as this. This issue has been rehashed in sci.med time and\ntime again. The bottom line is this: in normal circumstances,\nboth the medical advantages of and the medical risks of\ncircumcision are minor. This means that the decision is left to\nthe religious, cultural, ethical, and aesthetic mores of the\nparents, at best, or to the habit of the concerned hospital or\ncaregivers, at worst. \n\nAs (prospective) parents, you should do what you want in this\nregard and not worry about it too much. In terms of decisions\nyou make for your child, it will have far less importance than\nmany -- such as which schools you choose -- that most parents\nthink about only a little. \n\nThis question will undoubtedly push the buttons of people who\nfeel that the decision to circumcise your infant or not is a\nmomentous medical decision. It is not.\n\nRussell\n',
'From: pww@spacsun.rice.edu (Peter Walker)\nSubject: Re: Cults Vs. Religions?\nOrganization: I didn\'t do it, nobody saw me, you can\'t prove a thing.\nLines: 25\n\nIn article <1r4bfe$7hg@aurora.engr.LaTech.edu>, ray@engr.LaTech.edu (Bill\nRay) wrote:\n> \n> James Thomas Green (jgreen@trumpet.calpoly.edu) wrote:\n> \n> : \n> : So in conclusion it can be shown that there is essentially no\n> : logical argument which clearly differentiates a "cult" from a\n> : "religion". I challenge anyone to produce a distinction which\n> : is clear and can\'t be easily knocked down. \n> \n> How about this one: a religion is a cult which has stood the test\n> of time.\n\nOr a religion is a cult that got co-opted by people who are better at\ncompartmentalizing their irrationality.\n\nPeter\n\nDon\'t forget to sing:\n They say there\'s a heaven for those who will wait\n Some say it\'s better, but I say it ain\'t\n I\'d rather laugh with the sinners than cry with the saints\n The sinners are much more fun\n Only the good die young!\n',
"From: rrpolder@cs.ruu.nl (Roderick Polder)\nSubject: Re: DXF to PCX,GIF,TIF or TGA?\nOrganization: Utrecht University, Dept. of Computer Science\nLines: 15\n\nIn <murashiea.16@mail.beckman.com> murashiea@mail.beckman.com (Ed Murashie) writes:\n\n>Does anyone know of a program for the PC that\n>will take AutoCad DXF format files and convert\n>them to a raster format, like PCX, GIF, etc?\n>Thanks in advance....\n>\t\t\t\tED\n\nI'm also interested in such a program. But most of all I'd like to know \nwich program is able to convert GIF or PCX to DXF !!! When I have this \nprogram, I can scan pictures and frase (or something like that !) them.\nThis will be beyond the limit !!!\n\n\t\t****** Roderick ******\n\n",
'From: mdw33310@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Michael D. Walker)\nSubject: New thought on Deuterocanonicals\nOrganization: University of Illinois at Urbana\nLines: 40\n\n\n\tOften times (most recently on this list in the last few days) I\'ve\nheard the passage from revelation:\n\n\t"...whoever adds to the sacred words of this book...whoever removes\n\t words from this book..." \n\n\t used as an arguement against the deutercanonical books.\n\n\t I feel this is ridiculous for two reasons:\n\n\t 1. They weren\'t added later by the Catholic Church; they were\n\t\t*always* part of what was considered inspired scripture.\n\t\t(This has been dealt with in previous postings...no reason\n\t\tto repeat the info.)\n\n\t2. It is more likely than not that when St. John (or whomever) wrote\n\t\tthe book of Revelation WHAT WAS THEN CONSIDERED SCRIPTURE was\n\t\t** NOT ** the same thing you and I are holding in our hands!\n\n\tIf one takes the translation of "this book" in REV 18:22 (or somewhere\n\taround there) to mean "all of scripture", then all of us are likely\n\tholding something that is in violation of this command.\n\n\tIt is impossible to exactly date the scriptures, even the N.T. ones\n\t(they didn\'t like to date their letters, I guess). I really wish I\n\thad my bible with me right now to get the facts straight, but I believe\n\tthat several of the N.T. letters, chief among them 2 Peter, have their\n\tmost likely date of composition in the early second century A.D.\n\t\tRevelation was almost certainly written durin the reign of \n\tDomition (sp?), A.D. 80-96. Thus it could be argues that we are all\n\tin sin if we accept 2 Peter as scripture, since it was "added" to the\n\tbook after the composition of Revelation, when we are told to add \n\tnothing more.\n\n\tIf you want to get the exact dates, get a copy of the New American\n\tBible. I\'ll try to follow this up tomorrow if I remember.\n\t\t\t\t\t- Mike Walker\n\t\t\t\t\t mdw3310@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu\n\t\t\t\t\t (Univ. of Illinois)\n',
'From: darice@yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au (Fred Rice)\nSubject: Re: Genocide is Caused by Atheism\nOrganization: Monash University, Melb., Australia.\nLines: 19\n\nIn <1993Apr19.140316.14872@cs.nott.ac.uk> eczcaw@mips.nott.ac.uk (A.Wainwright) writes:\n\n>In article <1993Apr19.112706.26911@monu6.cc.monash.edu.au>, darice@yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au (Fred Rice) writes:\n\n>|> (Great respect or love for a particular person does not equal a form of\n>|> "theism".)\n>|> \n>|> Fred Rice\n>|> darice@yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au \n\n>Hmm. What about Jesus?\n\nSure, a person could have great respect for Jesus and yet be an \natheist. (Having great respect for Jesus does not necessarily mean \nthat one has to follow the Christian [or Muslim] interpretation of \nhis life.) \n\n Fred Rice\n darice@yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au \n',
"From: tung@paaiec.enet.dec.com\nSubject: Re: Opinions on Allergy (Hay Fever) shots?\nReply-To: tung@paaiec.enet.dec.com ()\nOrganization: Digital Equipment Corporation\nLines: 9\n\n\nI have just started taking allergy shots a month ago and is \nstill wondering what I am getting into. A friend of mine told\nme that the body change every 7 years (whatever that means)\nand I don't need those antibody-building allergy shots at all.\nDoes that make sense to anyone?\n\nBTW, can someone summarize what is in the Consumer Report\nFebruary, 1988 article?\n",
'From: SFB2763@MVS.draper.com (Eileen Bauer)\nSubject: Re: thyroidal deficiency\nNntp-Posting-Host: mvs.draper.com\nOrganization: Draper Laboratory\nLines: 49\n\nIn article <1993Apr30.162636.22327@cc.ic.ac.uk>,\newolff@ps.ic.ac.uk (Erik The Viking) writes:\n\n>Hi.\n>\n>My wife has aquired some thyroidal (sp?) deficiency over the past year\n>that gives symptoms such as needing much sleep, coldness and proneness\n>to gaining weight. She has been to a doctor and taken the ordinary (?)\n>tests and her values were regarded as low. The doctor (and my wife) are\n>not very interested in starting medication as this "deactivates" the\n>gland, giving life-long dependency to the drug (hormone?).\n>\n...\n>My questions are: has anyone had/heard of success in using this approach?\n>Her values have been (slowly but) steadily sinking, any comment on the\n>probability of improvement? Although the doctor has told her to \'eat\n>normally\', my wife has dieted vigorously to keep her weight as she feels\n>that is part of keeping an edge over the illness/condition, may this\n>affect the treatment, development?\n>\n\nThere are several different types of Thyroid diseases which would cause\na hypothyroid condition (reduction in the output of the thyroid, mainly\nthyroxin). Except for ones caused by infections, the treatment is\ngenerally thyroxin pills. Hypothyroid conditions caused by infections\nusually disappear when the infection does...this doesn\'t sound like the\ncase with your wife.\nThyroxin orally does "shut down the thyroid" through a feedback loop\ninvolving the pituitary (I believe). The pituitary "thinks" that the\ncorrect amount of thyroxin is being produced so it doesn\'t have to\ntell the thyroid to produce more. This process is reversable! I have\nHashimoto\'s thyroiditis (an autoimmune condition) and was on thyroxin\nfor approx 6 mo when my endocrinologist suggested I not take the pills\nfor 6 wks. When I was retested for thyroxin levels, they were normal.\nI still get tested every 6mo because the condition might reappear.\nThe pills are safe and have very few side-affects (& those mostly at\nbeginning of treatment). Having a baby might be a problem and would at\nleast require closer monitoring of hormone levels.\nThyroxin controls energy production which explains sleepiness, coldness,\nand weight gain. There is also water retention (possibly around heart),\nchanges in vision, and coarser hair and skin among other things.\n\nI am not a doctor, so I\'m sure I mistated something, but the important\nthing is that thyroid problems are usually easily corrected and if they\naren\'t corrected can cause problems in the rest of the body. Get a\nsecond opinion from a good endocrinologist and have him/her explain\nthings in detail to you and your wife.\n\n- Eileen Bauer\n',
'From: bil@okcforum.osrhe.edu (Bill Conner)\nSubject: Re: free moral agency\nNntp-Posting-Host: okcforum.osrhe.edu\nOrganization: Okcforum Unix Users Group\nX-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL9]\nDistribution: na\nLines: 142\n\nAndrew Newell (TAN102@psuvm.psu.edu) wrote:\n: >\n: >I think you\'re letting atheist mythology confuse you on the issue of\n\n: (WEBSTER: myth: "a traditional or legendary story...\n: ...a belief...whose truth is accepted uncritically.")\n\n: How does that qualify?\n: Indeed, it\'s almost oxymoronic...a rather amusing instance.\n: I\'ve found that most atheists hold almost no atheist-views as\n: "accepted uncritically," especially the few that are legend.\n: Many are trying to explain basic truths, as myths do, but\n: they don\'t meet the other criterions.\n\nAndrew,\n\nThe myth to which I refer is the convoluted counterfeit athiests have\ncreated to make religion appear absurd. Rather than approach religion\n(including Christainity) in a rational manner and debating its claims\n-as the are stated-, atheists concoct outrageous parodies and then\nhold the religious accountable for beliefs they don\'t have. What is\nmore accurately oxymoric is the a term like, reasonable atheist.\n\nBill\n\n: >Divine justice. According to the most fundamental doctrines of\n: >Christianity, When the first man sinned, he was at that time the\n\n: You accuse him of referencing mythology, then you procede to\n: launch your own xtian mythology. (This time meeting all the\n: requirements of myth.)\n \nHere\'s a good example of of what I said above. Read the post again, I\nsaid, "Acoording to ...", which means I am referring to Christian\ndoctrine (as I understand it), if I am speaking for myself you\'ll know\nit. My purpose in posting was to present a basic overview of Christain\ndoctrines since it seemed germane.\n\nBill\n\n: >with those who pretend not to know what is being said and what it\n: >means. When atheists claim that they do -not- know if God exists and\n: >don\'t know what He wants, they contradict the Bible which clearly says\n: >that -everyone- knows. The authority of the Bible is its claim to be\n\n: ...should I repeat what I wrote above for the sake of getting\n: it across? You may trust the Bible, but your trusting it doesn\'t\n: make it any more credible to me.\n: If the Bible says that everyone knows, that\'s clearly reason\n: to doubt the Bible, because not everyone "knows" your alleged\n: god\'s alleged existance.\n\nAgain I am paraphrasing Christian doctrine which is very clear on this\npoint, your dispute is not with me ...\n\nBill\n\n: >refuted while the species-wide condemnation is justified. Those that\n: >claim that there is no evidence for the existence of God or that His will is\n: >unknown, must deliberately ignore the Bible; the ignorance itself is\n: >no excuse.\n\n: 1) No, they don\'t have to ignore the Bible. The Bible is far\n: from universally accepted. The Bible is NOT a proof of god;\n: it is only a proof that some people have thought that there\n: was a god. (Or does it prove even that? They might have been\n: writing it as series of fiction short-stories. As in the\n: case of Dionetics.) Assuming the writers believed it, the\n: only thing it could possibly prove is that they believed it.\n: And that\'s ignoring the problem of whether or not all the\n: interpretations and Biblical-philosophers were correct.\n\n: 2) There are people who have truly never heard of the Bible.\n\n: 3) Again, read the FAQ.\n\n1) Here again you miss the point. The Bible itself is not the point,\nit\'s what it contains. It makes no difference who accpets the Bible or\neven who\'s unaware of its existence, Christians hold that it applies\nuniversally because mankind shares the same nature and the same fate\nand the same innate knowledge of God.\n\n2) See above\n\n3) If you read my post with same care as read the FAQ, we wouldn\'t be\nhaving this conversation.\n\nBill\n\n: >freedom. You are free to ignore God in the same way you are free to\n: >ignore gravity and the consequences are inevitable and well known\n: >in both cases. That an atheist can\'t accept the evidence means only\n\n: Bzzt...wrong answer!\n: Gravity is directly THERE. It doesn\'t stop exerting a direct and\n: rationally undeniable influence if you ignore it. God, on the\n: other hand, doesn\'t generally show up in the supermarket, except\n: on the tabloids. God doesn\'t exert a rationally undeniable influence.\n: Gravity is obvious; gods aren\'t.\n\nAs I said, the evidence is there, you just don\'t accept it, here at\nleast we agree.\n\nBill\n\n: >Secondly, human reason is very comforatble with the concept of God, so\n: >much so that it is, in itself, intrinsic to our nature. Human reason\n: >always comes back to the question of God, in every generation and in\n\n: No, human reason hasn\'t always come back to the existance of\n: "God"; it has usually come back to the existance of "god".\n: In other words, it doesn\'t generally come back to the xtian\n: god, it comes back to whether there is any god. And, in much\n: of oriental philosophic history, it generally doesn\'t pop up as\n: the idea of a god so much as the question of what natural forces\n: are and which ones are out there. From a world-wide view,\n: human nature just makes us wonder how the universe came to\n: be and/or what force(s) are currently in control. A natural\n: tendancy to believe in "God" only exists in religious wishful\n: thinking.\n\nYes, human reason does always come back to the existence of God, we\'re\nhaving this discussion are we not?\n\nBill\n\n: >I said all this to make the point that Christianity is eminently\n: >reasonable, that Divine justice is just and human nature is much\n: >different than what atheists think it is. Whether you agree or not\n\n: YOU certainly are not correct on human nature. You are, at\n: the least, basing your views on a completely eurocentric\n: approach. Try looking at the outside world as well when\n: you attempt to sum up all of humanity.\n\nWell this is interesting, Truth is to be determined by it politically\ncorrect content. Granted it\'s extremely unhip to be a WASP male, and\nanything European is contemptable, but I thought this kind of\ndialogue, the purpose of a.a, was to get at the truth of things. But\nthen I remember the oxymoron, reasonalble atheist, and I understand.\n\nBill\n',
'Organization: Penn State University\nFrom: <RFM@psuvm.psu.edu>\nSubject: Re: Med school admission\nLines: 1\n\nThen there are always osteopathy colleges....\n',
'From: mathew <mathew@mantis.co.uk>\nSubject: Re: Gulf War / Selling Arms\nOrganization: Mantis Consultants, Cambridge. UK.\nX-Newsreader: rusnews v1.02\nLines: 32\n\njbrown@batman.bmd.trw.com writes:\n> Mathew, I agree. This, it seems, is the crux of your whole position,\n> isn\'t it? That the US shouldn\'t have supported Hussein and sold him arms\n> to fight Iran? I agree. And I agree in ruthlessly hunting down those\n> who did or do. But we *did* sell arms to Hussein, and it\'s a done deal.\n> Now he invades Kuwait. So do we just sit back and say, "Well, we sold\n> him all those arms, I suppose he just wants to use them now. Too bad\n> for Kuwait." No, unfortunately, sitting back and "letting things be"\n> is not the way to correct a former mistake. Destroying Hussein\'s\n> military potential as we did was the right move. But I agree with\n> your statement, Reagan and Bush made a grave error in judgment to\n> sell arms to Hussein.\n\nBut it\'s STILL HAPPENING. That\'s the entire point. Only last month, John\nMajor hailed it as a great victory that he had personally secured a sale of\narms to Saudi Arabia. The same month, we sold jet fighters to the same\nIndonesian government that\'s busy killing the East Timorese.\n\nIt\'s all very well to say "Oops, we made a boo-boo, better clean up the\nmistake", but the US and UK *keep* making the *same* mistake. They do it so\noften that I can\'t believe it\'s not deliberate. This suspicion is reinforced\nby the fact that the mistake is an extremely profitable one for a decrepit\neconomy reliant on arms sales.\n\n> So it\'s really not the Gulf War you abhor\n> so much, it was the U.S.\'s and the West\'s shortsightedness in selling\n> arms to Hussein which ultimately made the war inevitable, right?\n\nNo, I thought both were terrible.\n\n\nmathew\n',
'From: green@island.COM (Robert Greenstein)\nSubject: Re: Iridology - Any credence to it???\nOrganization: Strawman Incorporated\nLines: 11\n\nIn article <9304261811.AA07821@DPW.COM> jprice@dpw.com (Janice Price) writes:\n>\n>I saw a printed up flyer that stated the person was a\n>"licensed herbologist and iridologist"\n\nI don\'t believe any state licenses herbologists or iridologists.\n-- \n******************************************************************************\nRobert Greenstein What the fool cannot learn he laughs at, thinking\ngreen@srilanka.island.com that by his laughter he shows superiority instead\n of latent idiocy - M. Corelli\n',
'From: brad@utkvx.utk.edu (Lemings, Eric Bradley)\nSubject: GWS\nNews-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41 \nOrganization: University of Tennessee Computing Center\nLines: 3\n\nAnybody know where I can get Graphics Work Shop?\n\nbrad@utkvx.utk.edu \n',
'From: daniel@siemens.com. (Daniel L. Theivanayagam)\nSubject: USMLE (formerly National Boards) Part 1- Request to Medical Students\nSummary: request for books\nKeywords: USMLE, National Boards, NBME\nNntp-Posting-Host: learning.siemens.com\nOrganization: Siemens Corporate Research, Princeton (Plainsboro), NJ\nDistribution: usa\nLines: 33\n\nThis request goes out to medical students who have done\nor are planning to sit the USMLE (or National Boards) Part 1.\n\nMy wife is sitting this examination in early June this year and would\nlike to have a look at some old National Boards, Part 1 questions\nfound in the following books. These books are currently out of print.\n \n\nThe books are:\n\n(1) Retired NBME Basic Medical Science Test Items, NBME;\n Published by NBME in 1991\n\n(2) Self-test in the Part 1 Basic Medical Sciences, NBME;\n Published by NBME in 1989\n\nI would appreciate if anyone who has these books is willing\nto loan it to her for a couple of days. Obviously, I would\nreimburse for you all postage and related charges. Failing\nthat it would be beneficial if anyone could point to any\nlibrary in the NY, NJ or PA area that may have these books.\n\nPlease respond by e-mail since I do not read this newsgroup\nregularly.\n\nThanks in advance.\n\n\nDaniel\n\n\ne-mail: daniel@learning.siemens.com\n\n',
'From: acooper@mac.cc.macalstr.edu (Turin Turambar, ME Department of Utter Misery)\nSubject: STRONG & weak Atheism\nOrganization: Macalester College\nLines: 14\n\nDid that FAQ ever got modified to re-define strong atheists as not those who\nassert the nonexistence of God, but as those who assert that they BELIEVE in \nthe nonexistence of God? There was a thread on this earlier, but I didn\'t get\nthe outcome...\n\n-- Adam "No Nickname" Cooper\n\n\n\n********************************************************************************\n* Adam John Cooper\t\t"Verily, often have I laughed at the weaklings *\n* (612) 696-7521\t\t who thought themselves good simply because *\n* acooper@macalstr.edu\t\t\t\tthey had no claws."\t *\n********************************************************************************\n',
'From: "nigel allen" <nigel.allen@canrem.com>\nSubject: New Method For Diagnosing Alzheimer\'s Disease Discovered\nReply-To: "nigel allen" <nigel.allen@canrem.com>\nOrganization: Canada Remote Systems\nDistribution: sci\nLines: 113\n\n\nHere is a press release from Huntington Medical Research Institutes.\n\n New Method For Diagnosing Alzheimer\'s Disease Discovered at\nHuntington Medical Research Institutes: Results to Be Reported\n To: National Desk, Health Writer\n Contact: John Lockhart or Belinda Gerber, 310-444-7000, or\n 800-522-8877, for the Huntington Medical Research\n Institutes.\n\n LOS ANGELES, April 28 -- A new method for diagnosing \nand measuring chemical imbalances in the brain\nwhich lead to Alzheimer\'s disease and other dementias has been\ndiscovered by researchers at the Huntington Medical Research\nInstitutes (HMRI) in Pasadena, Calif. Results of their research\nwill be reported in the May issue of the scientific journal,\nRadiology.\n Using an advanced form of magnetic resonance imaging (MRI)\ncalled magnetic resonance spectroscopy (MRS), a research team led\nby Brian D. Ross, M.D., D. Phil., conducted a study on 21 elderly\npatients who were believed to be suffering from some form of\ndementia. The exams used standard MRI equipment fitted with special\nsoftware developed at HMRI called Clinical Proton MRS. Clinical\nProton MRS is easily applied, giving doctors confirmatory diagnoses\nin less than 30 minutes. An automated version of Clinical Proton\nMRS called Proton Brain Examination (PROBE) reduces the examination\ntime yet further, providing confirmatory diagnoses in less than 10\nminutes. By comparison, the current "standard of care" in testing\nfor Alzheimer\'s disease calls for lengthy memory function and\nneuropsychological tests, which can be very upsetting to the\npatient, are not definitive and can only be confirmed by autopsy.\n In addition to Alzheimer\'s disease, the new Clinical Proton MRS\nexam may have applications in diagnosing other dementias, including\nAIDS-related dementia, Parkinson\'s disease and Huntington\'s\ndisease.\n "We\'ve developed a simple test which can be administered quickly\nand relatively inexpensively using existing MRI equipment fitted\nwith either the MRS or PROBE software," said Dr. Ross, adding,\n"this will help physicians to diagnose Alzheimer\'s earlier and\nintervene with therapeutics before the progression of the disease\ncauses further damage to the delicate inner workings of the brain."\n Dr. Ross and his HMRI team measured a family of chemicals in the\nbrain known as inositols, and myo-inositol (MI) acted as a marker\nin the study. In comparison to healthy patients, those diagnosed\nwith Alzheimer\'s showed a 22 percent increase in MI, while their\nlevel of another chemical called N-acetylaspartate (NAA) was\nsignificantly lower, indicating a loss of brain-stimulating neurons\nbelieved to be associated with the progression of the disease.\n Current drug therapy for Alzheimer\'s disease is widely\nconsidered to be inadequate. This is attributable, Dr. Ross\nbelieves, to the theory that Alzheimer\'s is caused by an\ninterruption in the transmission of the chemical acetylcholine to\nthe nerve cells. This belief has been adhered to over the last 15\nyears, and consequently, most drugs to treat Alzheimer\'s were based\non the changing receptors for acetylcholine.\n "Physicians have a real need for a test to differentiate\nAlzheimer\'s from other dementias, to provide the patient and his or\nher family with a firm diagnosis and to monitor future treatment\nprotocols for the treatment of this disease. For this reason, we\nconsider this test a major advancement in medicine," said Bruce\nMiller, M.D., a noted neurologist at Harbor-UCLA, MRS researcher\nand a co-author of the study.\n Other members of the HMRI research team included Rex A. Moats,\nPh.D., Truda Shonk, B.S., Thomas Ernst, Ph.D., and Suzanne Woolley,\nR.N. The PROBE software can be fitted on the approximately 1,200\nGeneral Electric MRI units currently in use in the United States,\nand will be configured for other manufacturers\' MRI units soon.\n For interviews with Dr. Ross, advance copies of the Radiology\nMay issue, and other information, please contact John Lockhart or\nBelinda Gerber for HMRI at 310-444-7000 or 800-522-8877.\n\n Q & A on Alzheimer\'s Disease:\n\n What is Alzheimer\'s disease and how is it caused?\n Alzheimer\'s disease (AD) is an incurable degenerative disease of\nthe brain first described in 1906 by the German neuropathologist\nAlois Alzheimer. As the disease progresses, it leads to loss of\nmemory and mental functioning, followed by changes in personality,\nloss of control of bodily functions, and, eventually, death.\n How many people does it affect?\n Alzheimer\'s disease affects an estimated 4 million adults in\nthe United States and is the fourth leading cause of death, taking\napproximately 100,000 lives each year. While Alzheimer\'s\ndebilitates its victims, it is equally devastating, both\nemotionally and financially, for patients\' families. AD is the\nmost common cause of dementia in adults. Symptoms worsen every\nyear, and death usually occurs within 10 years of initial onset.\n What are its signs and symptoms?\n Although the cause of AD is not known, two risk factors have\nbeen identified: advanced age and genetic predisposition. The risk\nof developing AD is less than one percent before the age of 50\nyars old, but increases steeply in each successive decade of life\nto reach 30 percent by the age of 90. In patients with familial\nAD, immediate family relatives have a 50 percent chance of\ndeveloping AD. One of its first symptoms is severe "forgetfulness"\ncaused by short-term memory loss. Dr. Herman Weinreb of the School\nof Medicine at New York University says "whether forgetfulness is\na serious symptom or not is largely a matter of degree" and\nsuggests the following criteria:\n\n -- Forgetting the name of someone you see infrequently is\n normal.\n -- Forgetting the name of a loved one is serious.\n -- Forgetting where you left your keys is normal.\n -- Forgetting how to get home is serious.\n\n Doctors suggest that people with severe symptoms should be\nevaluated in order to rule out Alzheimer\'s disease and other forms\nof dementia.\n -30-\n--\nCanada Remote Systems - Toronto, Ontario\n416-629-7000/629-7044\n',
"From: mussack@austin.ibm.com (Christopher Mussack)\nSubject: Re:Major Views of the Trinity\nLines: 20\n\n>>Can't someone describe someone's Trinity in simple declarative\n>>sentences with words that have common meaning?\n\nWhen I need a kick-butt God, or when I need assurance of the reality\nof truth, I pray to God the Father.\n\nWhen I need a friend, someone to put his arm around me and\ncry with me, I pray to Jesus.\n\nWhen I need strength or wisdom to get through a difficult situation,\nI pray for the Holy Spirit.\n\nI realize that the above will probably make some people cringe,\nbut what can I say? I think the doctrine of the trinity is\nan attempt to reconcile Jesus being God and being distinct from\nGod, as described in the Bible.\n\nI wonder if Jesus had been a Hindu how different the wording would be.\n\nChris Mussack\n",
'From: pyan@ehd.hwc.ca (Ping Yan)\nSubject: What is the medical term for this sensation?\nOrganization: Health and Welfare, Canada\nLines: 23\nNNTP-Posting-Host: m.ehd.hwc.ca\nX-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]\n\nDear Netters:\n\nMaybe one of you can explain this. From time to time I experience \na strange kind of feeling (I have all kinds of weird feelings) which \ncan be best described as the feeling of "losing gravity", like that one \nexperiences in a descending elevator. Needless to say, it is not \nenjoyable. It sometimes comes with shortness of breath and extreme \nfatigue. It lasts from a few minutes to an hour and when it lasts \nthat long, it makes me sweatening.\n\nInitially I called it "palpitation (spelling?)" until I later learnt that \nthe terminology has been reserved for the self-awareness of heart beats.\n\nSo, is there a specific term for this feeling, or am I a stragne person?\nI always believe I am unique. \n\nThanks.\n\nPing\n\n\n\n\n',
'From: brb@falcon.is (Bjorn R. Bjornsson)\nSubject: Re: earwax\nOrganization: Gagntaekni/Bijective Tech.\nLines: 29\n\nhbloom@moose.uvm.edu (*Heather*) writes:\n>You can try\n>adding a few drops of olive oil into the ear during a shower to soften up\n>the wax. Do this for a couple days, then try syringing again. It is also\n>safe to point your ear up at the shower head, and allow the water to rinse\n>it out.\n\nAbout six years ago my ears clogged up with wax, probably as a\nresult of to much headphone use. Anyway, the clinic that cleaned\nthem out used the following procedure:\n\n1. Inject olive oil into ears.\n2. Prevent leakage of oil with cotton.\n3. Come back in an hour.\n4. Rinse ears with warm vater, forcefully injected\n into ear (very strange sensation).\n5. Done.\n\nThey had special tools to do this, and were evidently quite\nfamiliar with the problem: Very large steel syringe. Special\nbowl with cutout for ear to take the grime coming out without\nspillage.\n\n>Good Luck\n\nSeconded,\n\nBjorn R. Bjornsson\nbrb@falcon.is\n',
'From: pduggan@world.std.com (Paul C Duggan)\nSubject: Re: Baptism requires Faith\nOrganization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA\nLines: 118\n\nIn article <May.12.04.26.21.1993.9879@athos.rutgers.edu> aaronc@athena.mit.edu (Aaron Bryce Cardenas) writes:\n>Colossians 2:11-12 "In him you were also circumcised, in the putting off of\n>the sinful nature, not with a circumcision done by Christ, having been\n>buried with him in baptism and raised with him through your faith in the\n>power of God, who raised him from the dead."\n>\n>In baptism, we are raised to a new life in Christ (Romans 6:4) through a\n>personal faith in the power of God. Our parent\'s faith cannot do this. Do\n>infants have faith? Let\'s look at what the Bible has to say about it.\n\nI don\'t think the issue of whether infants have faith is relevant or not.\nCertainly they *can*, as the example of John in utero proves. I find the\ntranslation of Col 2 above odd in terms of the circumcision of christ,\nwhich the KJV and RSV put in terms of Christ\'s cricumcision which we, in\nunion with him *participate* in putting off the body of sins of the flesh.\n\nAlso, perhaps cor 2:12 is dividing the act of burial with him in baptism,\nwhich can be independant of faith, from the experience of rising with\nChrist by faith. Who says both are by faith? This interpretation has the\nadvantage of explaining those who are faithlessly baptized, for whom their\nbaptisim is not benefit, but serves to put them into the kingdom nonetheless.\n\nLike the israelites (all of them, children included) who were baptized in\nthe cloud and in the sea, it was of no advantage because they did not add\nto their baptism faith and obedience.\n\nBaptism does not impart faith, nor is it done strictly speaking on the\nbasis of the faith of the parent, but because of the covcenant promise of\nGod. It imparts grace, the grace of the kingdom, which can be a\npunishement in disguise if there is later apostacy.\n\n\n>\n>Romans 10:16-17 "But not all the Israelites accepted the good news. For\n>Isaiah says, \'Lord, who has believed our message?\' Consequently, faith\n>comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word\n>of Christ."\n>\n>So then we receive God\'s gift of faith to us as we hear the message of the\n>gospel. Faith is a possible response to hearing God\'s word preached. Kids\n>are not yet spiritually, intellectually, or emotionally mature enough to\n>respond to God\'s word. Hence they cannot have faith and therefore cannot\n>be raised in baptism to a new life.\n\nDo you teach a child to pray the Lord\'s prayer? Do you expect them to not\nsteal? They *can* have faith appropriate to their condition. And in the\nnew covenant, we shall no longer say: know the lord, for they shall all\nknow him from the least unto the greatest Heb 8:11.\n\n>If you read all of Ezekiel 18, you will see that God doesn\'t hold us guilty\n>for anyone else\'s sins. So we can have no original guilt from Adam.\n\nBut also according to Ezekiel 18, God will not hold innocent anyone on the\nbasis of anyone elses innocense. Thus Jesus could not be our federal head\nany more than adam, *IF* that\'s what ezekiel is talking about. Shall you\nmake ezekiel 18 contradict the second commandemnt as well?\n\n\n >\n>Ezekiel 18:31-32 "Rid yourselves of all the offenses you have committted,\n>and get a new heart and a new spirit. Why will you die, O house of Israel?\n>For I take no pleasure in the death of anyone, declares the Sovereign Lord.\n>Repent and live!"\n>\n>The way to please God is to repent and get a new heart and spirit. Kids\n>cannot do this. Acts 2:38-39 says that when we repent and are baptized, we\n>will then receive a new spirit, the Holy Spirit. Then we shall live.\n\nEzekiel 36:25-26 indicates that this new heart will be given by God,\nin the context of the sprinkling of water in baptism. It is the action of\nGod puting them into his new order, and not a question of"personal"\nfaith as such.\n\n\n>Romans 5:12 "Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and\n>death through sin, and in this way death came to all men, because all\n>sinned--"\n>\n>Sin and death entered the world when the first man sinned. Death came to\n>each man because each man sinned. Note that it\'s good to read through all\n>of Romans 5:12-21. Some of the verses are easier to misunderstand than\n>others, but if we read them in context we will see that they are all\n>saying basically the same thing. Let\'s look at one such.\n>\nBut the death that came to all because of sin is not just their personal\ndeath, but the dead state (originbal sin). We are in a covenant of death,\nbecause adam, our federal head gave over his dominion to the devil and death.\n\n\n>Psalm 51:5 "Surely I was sinful at birth, sinful from the time my mother\n>conceived me."\n>\n>This whole Psalm is a wonderful example of how we should humble ourselves\n>before God in repentance for sinning. David himself was a man after God\'s\n>own heart and wrote the Psalm after committing adultry with Bathsheba and\n>murdering her husband. All that David is saying here is that he can\'t\n>remember a time when he wasn\'t sinful. He is humbling himself before God\n>by confessing his sinfulness. His saying that he was sinful at birth is\n>a hyperbole. The Bible, being inspired by God, isn\'t limited to a literal\n>interpetation, but also uses figures of speech as did Jesus (John 16:25).\n>For another example of hyperbole, see Luke 14:26.\n\nWhile this psalm is figurative in it\'s language, it is not hyperbolic, and\nthe one does not necessarily imply the other. There is not other\nhyperbolic language in this psalm. What v 5 is likely refering to is \nwhat is symbolized by the OT cleanliness laws (which make intercourse and\nchildbrith both acts which caus uncleannes and seperation from God). The\nwhole psalm is in the language of OT ritual (hyssop, cleansing, burnt\noffering, etc) David\'s sin with bathsheba included this element, as he\ndid not ritually cleanse himself when he should have. \n\nBut what was symbolized by the OT ritual was the truth that sin was \npassed generationally. That\'s why the organ of generation had to be\ncut. That\'s why brith was unclean. Uncleanness was death, and all babies\nwere born dead, and needed to be washed to newness of life, which we have in\nbaptism today.\n\npaul duggan\n',
"From: edmoore@vcd.hp.com (Ed Moore)\nSubject: Re: LCD VGA display\nOrganization: Hewlett-Packard VCD\nX-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1.9 PL6]\nLines: 5\n\n: I've only had the computer for about 21 months. Is that a reasonable life\n: cycle for a LCD display?\n\nMy Toshiba T1100+ LCD (CGA, 1986) died in 11 months. Replaced under the 12\nmonth warranty, fortunately. When it died, it died instantly and completely.\n",
'From: pauley@tai.jkj.sii.co.jp (Martin Pauley)\nSubject: Re: Question about Virgin Mary\nLines: 27\n\nIn article <May.6.00.35.45.1993.15465@geneva.rutgers.edu>,\nmarka@hcx1.ssd.csd.harris.com (Mark Ashley) wrote:\n>\n>countries. That event is "approved" by the Pope. Currently,\n>images of Mary in Japan, Korea, Yugoslavia, Philippines, Africa\n>are showing tears (natural or blood).\n...\n>If you have the resources, go to one of the countries I mentioned.\n\nIn article <May.9.05.40.20.1993.27478@athos.rutgers.edu>,\nmdw33310@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Michael D. Walker) wrote:\n>\n>1. As far as current investigations, the Church recently declared the\n> crying statue and corresponding messages from Mary at Akita,\n> Japan as approved (I found this out about a month ago.)\n\nI\'m in Japan.\n(Michael, could you give me more info about where Akita is: nearest city\nwould be good)\n\nIf I find it, I\'ll get pictures and post a digitised version if enough\npeople are interested.\n\n--------------------------------\n..Marty.!\nLost in Space! (or is it Japan?)\n<pauley@tai.jkj.sii.co.jp>\n',
'From: hawks@seq.uncwil.edu (David Hawks)\nSubject: Re: Turning photographic images into thermal print and/or negatives\nOrganization: Univ. of North Carolina @ Wilmington\nLines: 44\n\nJennifer Lynn Urso <ju23+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:\n\n>> Also if anyone else is doing what I am planning I would be happy to hear\n>>from you with any advice you might provide as to the computer system you\n>>use and/or any peripherals or software. It seemed the Quadra 800 would be\n>>my best bet to modify photographic images. I am planning on buying a Quadra\n>>800 with 32Megs of RAM, a 510Meg Hard Drive, a 1200 dpi scanner, 17" Sony \n>>monitor and a 88Meg cartridge drive and perhaps a CD ROM. I am new to\n>>computers and any advice would be great.\n> \n>well, i have lots of experience with scanning in images and altering\n>them. as for changing them back into negatives, is that really possible?\n>scanning and altering is no big deal. i don\'t know what types of\n>features you have in your version of photoshop. but the one i use\n>(which, incidentally is on a quadra) has gallery effects and all types\n>of other neato stuff.\n>i\'m just wondering why you would want to put your images back into\n>negatives, because once you print the image out-that\'s your print.\n>do you know what exactly your aim is in all of this? like, are you\n>doing this just for fun, for a business, to gain more computer\n>knowledge, for a project you\'re working on....\n>otherwise, i guess i don\'t know if i\'d be helping or not by posting info\n>on scanning and stuff.\n>ok? cool.\n>seeya\n\n>jennifer urso: the oh-so bitter woman of utter blahness(but cheerful\n>undertones)\n\nIt is for a business and the end product has to be a photograph.\nI take damaged black and whites, usually old, some very, and repair them\nby hand at present. I would like to do this by using a computer.\nI am just trying to find a vendor who can convert my computer stored\nimages to negatives or thermal print. The customer will want his/her\ncopy as much as possible like a brand new original photgraph.\n\n\n-- David\n\nps. Thanks to all of you who have sent me information it was very\n helpful in my learning about computers combined with photography.\n If anyone else has any information I would be grateful.\n\n\n',
'From: pdenize@waikato.ac.nz\nSubject: Cross, Sobel & Roberts Filters ?\nOrganization: University of Waikato, Hamilton, New Zealand\nLines: 15\n\n\nI saw an imaging program some time ago on an Amiga that had\nCross, Sobel and Roberts filters for edge detection. \n\nCan anybody direct me to these algorithms.\n\nPaul Denize\n\n--------------------------------------------------------------------------\nPaul Denize Internet: PDenize@Waikato.ac.nz\nDepartment of Computer Science\nUniversity of Waikato phone: ++64 7 8562-889\nHamilton Ext 8743\nNEW ZEALAND fax : ++64 7 8560-135\n--------------------------------------------------------------------------\n',
'From: vortex@zikzak.apana.org.au (Paul Anderson)\nSubject: Re: Do we need a Radiologist to read an Ultrasound?\nOrganization: Zikzak Public Access UNIX, Melbourne Australia\nLines: 40\nNNTP-Posting-Host: zikzak.apana.org.au\n\ndougb@comm.mot.com (Doug Bank) writes:\n\n>My wife\'s ob-gyn has an ultrasound machine in her office. When\n\n>On her next visit, my wife asked another doctor in the office if\n>they read the ultrasounds themselves or if they had a radiologist\n>read the pictures. The doctor very vehemently insisted that they\n>were qualified to read the ultrasound and radiologists were NOT!\n\n>My wife is concerned about this. She saw a TV show a couple months\n>back (something like 20/20 or Dateline NBC, etc.) where an expert\n>on fetal ultrasounds (a radiologist) was showing all the different\n>deffects that could be detected using the ultrasound.\n\n>Should my wife be concerned? Should we take the pictures to a \n>radiologist for a second opinion? (and if so, where would we find\n>such an expert in Chicago?) We don\'t really have any special medical\n>reason to be concerned, but if a radiologist will be able to see\n>things the ob-gyn can\'t, then I don\'t see why we shouldn\'t use one.\n\n>Any thoughts?\n\n As far as I can see if your obstetrition has an ultrasound in his rooms\nand is expirienced its use and interpretation, he should be just as\ncapable of reading it as any radiologist. All doctors are "qualified" to\nread x-rays, u/s, ct scans etc. it is just that a radiologist does nothing\nelse, and thus, is only better at reading them because of all this time\nspent doing this (skill in reading x-rays etc. just comes from plenty of\npractice). If your obstetrition reads heaps of obstetric ultrasounds he\nshould be able to pick up any abnormalities that can be demonstrated by\nthis technique.\n\n- Paul.\n\n\n--\n | Zikzak public access UNIX, Melbourne, Australia. |\n ^^^^^^^ | |\n | | | | ///\n < O O > | ########################################## | ///\n',
"From: mserv@mozart.cc.iup.edu (Mail Server)\nSubject: Re: Dreams and out of body incidents\nLines: 19\n\ndt4%cs@hub.ucsb.edu (David E. Goggin) writes:\n\n>1) Dreams and OOBEs are totally mental phenomena. In this case no morality\n...\n>2) Dreams and OOBEs have a reality of their own (i.e. are 'another plane')\n...\n>3) Like (2), but here we assume that though the dreeam and OOBE environs have \n>a\n>real existence, a different moral/ethics apply there, and no (or maybe \n>different) moral laws apply there.\n\n\nI can think of another alternative:\n\n4) OOBE's are a form of contact with the demonic world, whereby one \nintentionally or unintentionally surrenders control of his or her perceptions \nto spiritual beings whose purpose is to deceive and entrap them.\n\n- Mark\n",
"From: badboy@netcom.com (Jay Keller)\nSubject: Re: Proventil Inhaler\nOrganization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)\nLines: 15\n\nIn article <16BB6CDEB.RICK@ysub.ysu.edu> RICK@ysub.ysu.edu (Rick Marsico) \nwrites:\n\n>Does the Proventil inhaler for asthma relief fall into the steroid\n>or nonsteroid category? Looking at the product literature it's\n>not clear.\n\nNon-steroid. Proventil is a brand of albuterol, a bronchodilator. \n\nRegards,\n\nJay Keller\n(asthmatic Proventil-head)\n\n\n",
'From: mccullou@snake10.cs.wisc.edu (Mark McCullough)\nSubject: Re: Gulf War / Selling Arms\nOrganization: University of Wisconsin, Madison -- Computer Sciences Dept.\nLines: 46\n\nIn article <930421.120313.2L5.rusnews.w165w@mantis.co.uk> mathew <mathew@mantis.co.uk> writes:\n>jbrown@batman.bmd.trw.com writes:\n>> Mathew, I agree. This, it seems, is the crux of your whole position,\n>> isn\'t it? That the US shouldn\'t have supported Hussein and sold him arms\n>> to fight Iran? I agree. And I agree in ruthlessly hunting down those\n>> who did or do. But we *did* sell arms to Hussein, and it\'s a done deal.\n>> Now he invades Kuwait. So do we just sit back and say, "Well, we sold\n>> him all those arms, I suppose he just wants to use them now. Too bad\n>> for Kuwait." No, unfortunately, sitting back and "letting things be"\n>> is not the way to correct a former mistake. Destroying Hussein\'s\n>> military potential as we did was the right move. But I agree with\n>> your statement, Reagan and Bush made a grave error in judgment to\n>> sell arms to Hussein.\n>\n>But it\'s STILL HAPPENING. That\'s the entire point. Only last month, John\n>Major hailed it as a great victory that he had personally secured a sale of\n>arms to Saudi Arabia. The same month, we sold jet fighters to the same\n>Indonesian government that\'s busy killing the East Timorese.\n\nI heard about the arms sale to Saudi Arabia. Now, how is it such a grave\nmistake to sell Saudi Arabia weapons? Or are you claiming that we shouldn\'t\nsell any weapons to other countries? Straightforward answer please.\n\n>It\'s all very well to say "Oops, we made a boo-boo, better clean up the\n>mistake", but the US and UK *keep* making the *same* mistake. They do it so\n>often that I can\'t believe it\'s not deliberate. This suspicion is reinforced\n>by the fact that the mistake is an extremely profitable one for a decrepit\n>economy reliant on arms sales.\n\nWho benefits from arms sales? Hint, it isn\'t normally the gov\'t. It is\nthe contractor that builds that piece of equipment. Believe it or not,\nthe US and UK don\'t export the huge quantities of arms that you have\njust accused them of doing. Arms exports are rare enough, that it\nrequires an act of congress for non-small arms to most countries, if\nnot all. Do you believe in telling everyone who can do what, and who\ncan sell their goods to whom? \n\n>\n>mathew\n\n\n-- \n***************************************************************************\n* mccullou@whipple.cs.wisc.edu * Never program and drink beer at the same *\n* M^2 * time. It doesn\'t work. *\n***************************************************************************\n',
'From: tdarcos@access.digex.net (Paul Robinson)\nSubject: Homosexuality is Immoral (non-religious argument)\nOrganization: Tansin A. Darcos & Company, Silver Spring, MD USA\nLines: 43\n\n[This was crossposted to a zillion groups. I don\'t intend to\ncarry an entire discussion crossposted from alt.sex, particularly\none whose motivation seems to be having a fun argument. However\nI thought readers might be interested to know about the\ndiscussion there. --clh]\n\nI intend to endeavor to make the argument that homosexuality is an\nimmoral practice or lifestyle or whatever you call it. I intend to\nshow that there is a basis for a rational declaration of this\nstatement. I intend to also show that such a declaration can be \nmade without there being a religious justification for morality,\nin fact to show that such a standard can be made if one is an atheist.\n\nAnyone who wants to join in on the fun in taking the other side,\ni.e. that they can make the claim that homosexuality is not immoral,\nor that, collaterally, it is a morally valid practice, is free to do\nso. I think there are a lot of people who don\'t believe one can have\na rational based morality without having a religion attached to it.\n\nThis should be fun to try and figure this out, and I want to try and\nexpose (no pun intended) my ideas and see other people\'s and see where\ntheir ideas are standing. As I\'m not sure what groups would be interested\nin this discussion, I will be posting an announcement of it to several,\nand if someone thinks of appropriate groups, let me know.\n\nIf someone on here doesn\'t receive alt.sex, let me know and I\'ll make\nan exception to my usual policy and set up a mailing list to automatically\ndistribute it in digest format to anyone who wants to receive it as I\'ll\nuse that as the main forum for this. By "exception to usual policy" is\nthat I normally charge for this, but for the duration the service will be\navailable at no charge to anyone who has an address reachable on Internet\nor Bitnet.\n\nI decided to start this dialog when I realized there was a much larger\naudience on usenet / internet than on the smaller BBS networks.\n\nTo give the other side time to work up to a screaming anger, this will \nbegin on Monday, May 24, to give people who want to make the response\ntime to identify themselves. Anonymous postings are acceptable, since\nsome people may not wish to identify themselves. Also, if someone else\nwants to get in on my side, they are free to do so. \n\nThis should be *much* more interesting than Abortion debates!\n',
'From: conor@owlnet.rice.edu (Conor Frederick Prischmann)\nSubject: Re: Genocide is Caused by Theism : Evidence?\nOrganization: Rice University\nLines: 23\n\nIn article <C60A0s.DvI@mailer.cc.fsu.edu> dekorte@dirac.scri.fsu.edu (Stephen L. DeKorte) writes:\n>\n>I saw a 3 hour show on PBS the other day about the history of the\n>Jews. Appearently, the Cursades(a religious war agianst the muslilams\n>in \'the holy land\') sparked the widespread persecution of muslilams \n>and jews in europe. Among the supporters of the persiecution, were none \n>other than Martin Luther, and the Vatican.\n>\n>Later, Hitler would use Luthers writings to justify his own treatment\n>of the jews.\n>> Genocide is Caused by Theism : Evidence?\n\nHeck, I remember reading a quote of Luther as something like: "Jews should\nbe shot like deer." And of course much Catholic doctrine for centuries was \nextremely anti-Semitic.\n\n\n\n-- \n"Are you so sure that your truth and your justice are worth more than the\ntruths and justices of other centuries?" - Simone de Beauvoir\n"Where is there a certainty that rises above all doubt and withstands all\ncritique?" - Karl Jaspers Rice University, Will Rice College \'96\n',
"From: schwartz@ils.nwu.edu (diane schwartz)\nSubject: re: SIGKids Research Showcase Call\nOrganization: institute for the learning sciences\nLines: 15\nDistribution: world\nNNTP-Posting-Host: schwartz.ils.nwu.edu\n\nIt was brought to my attention that there was an oversight in the SIGKids\nResearch Showcase Call for Participation and Entry Form.\n\nPlease note that the SIGKids Research Showcase is part of \nSIGGRAPH '93, August 1-6, 1993 Anaheim, California.\n\nThank you,\n\nDiane Schwartz\nSIGKids Committee Member\nInstitute for the Learning Sciences\n1890 Maple Avenue, Suite 150\nEvanston, Illinois 60201\n\nschwartz@ils.nwu.edu\n",
"From: jliddle@rs6000.cmp.ilstu.edu (Jean Liddle)\nSubject: Re: HELP: Need 24 bits viewer\nOrganization: Illinois State University\nKeywords: 24 bit\nLines: 23\n\nIn article <1993Apr29.041601.8884@labtam.labtam.oz.au> graeme@labtam.labtam.oz.a\nu (Graeme Gill) writes:\n>In article <5713@seti.inria.fr>, deniaud@cartoon.inria.fr (Gilles Deniaud) writ\nes:\n>> Hi,\n>>\n>> I'm looking for a program which is able to display 24 bits\n>> images. We are using a Sun Sparc equipped with Parallax\n>> graphics board running X11.\n>\n> xli, xloadimage or ImageMagick - export.lcs.mit.edu [18.24.0.12] /contrib\n>\n\nxv 3.0 (shareware) supports 24-bit displays, and has lots of other\nimprovements over earlier versions. Definitely worth checking out\n(also at export)\n\nJean.\n-- \nJean Liddle \nComputer Science, Illinois State University \ne-mail: jliddle@ilstu.edu \n--------------------------------------------\n",
"From: joshm@yang.earlham.edu\nSubject: Re: Vasectomy: Health Effects on Women?\nOrganization: Earlham College, Richmond, Indiana\nLines: 22\n\nIn article <1993Apr27.110440.5069@nic.csu.net>, eskagerb@nermal.santarosa.edu (Eric Skagerberg) writes:\n> Does anyone know of any studies done on the long-term health effects of a\n> man's vasectomy on his female partner?\n> \n> I've seen plenty of study results about vasectomy's effects on men's health,\n> but what about women? \n> \n> For example, might the wife of a vasectomized man become more at risk for,\n> say, cervical cancer? Adverse effects from sperm antibodies? Changes in the\n> vagina's pH? Yeast or bacterial infections?\n> \n> Outside of study results, how about informed speculation?\n\nI've heard of NO studies, but speculation:\n\nWhy on _earth_ would there be any effect on women's health? That's about \nthe most absurd idea I've heard since Ted Kaldis's claim that no more than \n35,000 people would march on Washington.\n\nOk, _one_ point: Greatly reduced chance of pregnancy. But that's it.\n\n--Josh\n",
'From: "kwansik kim" <kkim@cs.indiana.edu>\nSubject: Triangulized Data Wanted : with texture to be mapped.\nOrganization: Indiana University Computer Science, Bloomington\nLines: 10\n\nI need triangulized data of some nice looking model with some\ntexture mapping. It would be better if the parametric values\nof each vertex( for the surface before triangulized ) are\navaliable along with the Euclidean points so that we\ncould use them for texture mapping.\n\nThanks, Kwansik\n\n\n\n',
"From: brenda@bookhouse.Eng.Sun.COM (Brenda Bowden)\nSubject: feverfew for migraines\nOrganization: Sun\nLines: 13\nNNTP-Posting-Host: bookhouse\n\n\nI heard a short blurb on the news yesterday about an herb called feverfew (?)\nthat some say is good for preventing migraines. I think the news said there\nwere two double-blind studies that found this effective.\n\nDoes anyone know about these studies? Or have experience with feverfew?\nI'm skeptical, but open to trying it if I can find out more about this.\nWhat is feverfew, and how much would you take to prevent migraines (if \nthis is a good idea, that is)? Are there any known risks or side effects\nof feverfew? \n\nThanks in advance for any info!\nBrenda\n",
'From: wagner@grace.math.uh.edu (David Wagner)\nSubject: Re: Deuterocanonicals, esp. Sirach\nOrganization: UH Dept of Math\nLines: 67\n\n"Larry" == Larry L. Overacker <shellgate!llo@uu4.psi.com> writes:\n\nI, not Dave Davis, wrote:\n>\n>The deutero-canonical books were added much later in the church\'s\n>history. They do not have the same spiritual quality as the rest of\n>Scripture. I do not believe the church that added these books was\n>guided by the Spirit in so doing. And that is where this sort of\n>discussion ultimately ends.\n\nSorry, I put my foot in my mouth, concerning the church\'s history.\nIt is correct to say that the Council of Hippo 393 listed the \ndeuterocanonical books among those accepted for use in the\nchurch, and that this was ratified by the Council of Carthage,\nand by Pope Innoent I and Gelasius I (414 AD).\n\nYet Eerdman\'s History of the Church says: \n\n"At the end of the fourth century views still differed in regard to\nthe extent of the canon, or the number of the books which should\nbe acknowledged as divine and authoritative.\n\n The Jewish canon, or the Hebrew bible, was universally \nreceived, while the Apocrypha added to the Greek version\nof the Septuagint were only in a general way accounted as books\nsuitable for church reading, and thus as a middle class between\ncanonical and strictly apocryphal (pseudonymous) writings.\nAnd justly; for those books, while they have great historical\nvalue, and fill the gap between the Old Testament and the New,\nall originated after the cessation of prophecy, and the cannot\nbe therefore regarded as inspired, nor are they ever cited\nby Christ or the aposteles."\n\n"In the Western church the canon of both Testaments was closed\nat the end of the fourth century through the authority of\nJerome (who wavered, however, between critical doubts and the\nprinciple of tradition), and more especially of Augustine,\nwho firmly followed the Alexandrian canon of the Septuagint,\nand the preponderant tradition in reference to the Catholic\nEpistles and the Revelation; though he himself, in some\nplaces, inclines to consider the Old Testament Apocrypha\nas *deutero* canonical, bearing a subordinate authority."\n\nThis history goes on to say that Augustine attended both the\nCouncil of Hippo and of Carthage.\n\nIt is interesting to note, however, the following footnote to\nthe fourth session of the Council of Trent. The footnote \nlists various Synods which endorsed lists of canonical \nbooks, but then says "The Tridentine list or decree was the\nfirst *infallible* and effectually promulgated declaration\non the Canon of the Holy Scriptures."\n\nWhich leads one to think that the RC canon was not official\nuntil Trent. Thus my previous erroneous statement was\nnot entirely groundless.\n\nIt is also interesting to note that the Council of Trent\nwent on to uphold "the old Latin Vulgate Edition" of \nthe Scriptures as authentic. Which, I would suppose, \ntoday\'s Catholic scholars wish the Council had never said.\nAlso the council made no distinction between deutero-canonical\nand canonical books--in contrast to (Eerdman\'s statement of) the\nfourth century views.\n\nDavid Wagner\na confessional Lutheran\n',
'From: jk87377@lehtori.cc.tut.fi (Kouhia Juhana)\nSubject: comp.graphics.research??\nOrganization: Tampere University of Technology\nLines: 13\nDistribution: inet\nNNTP-Posting-Host: cc.tut.fi\n\n\nI have not seen articles in comp.graphics.research for a long time.\nDoes it/he work anymore?\n\nI have seen many conference related postings in comp.graphics,\nand it is hard to believe that people have not tried to post them to\nc.g.research.\n\nIf somebody has not got his article to comp.graphics.research, then\nwrite to me or post here.\n\n\nJuhana Kouhia\n',
'Subject: hypodermic needle\nFrom: bolsen@eis.calstate.edu (Becky Olsen)\nOrganization: Calif State Univ/Electronic Information Services\nLines: 7\n\nHi, I am doing a term paper on the syringe and I have found some\ninformation. It is said that Charles Pravaz has invented the hypodermic\nneedle, but then I have also found that Alexander Wood has invented it. \nDoes anyone know which one it is, of if it was anyone else? If there is\nanymore information that is out there could you please send it to me.\nThank you very much.\nBecky Olsen\n',
'From: mike@nx03.mik.uky.edu (Mike Mattone)\nSubject: LCD VGA display\nNntp-Posting-Host: nx03.mik.uky.edu\nOrganization: University Of Kentucky, Dept. of Math Sciences\nLines: 43\n\nPlease help.\n\nI have an IBM-compatible notebook computer with an LCD VGA screen. While I\nwas working with it this morning, the screen started to flicker a little,\nwhich I thought was odd since I do use a surge-protector for my computer and\nall peripherals. It only did this for a second and then stopped.\n\nI left the room for several minutes and, when I returned, the screen was\ncompletely dim, not blank, but very very dim. The contrast slider still\nworked so that I could adjust it to where I could *faintly* make out what\nwas on the screen but the brightness slider had absolutely *no* effect.\n\nI was plugged-in at the time (i.e., not using the battery) but I still\ntried switching the battery, changing the power-saver features, etc., etc.,\nall to no avail.\n\nHas anyone else experienced anything like this? If this just means that I\nneed to replace the screen then I guess I\'ll have to but I thought that the\n"death" of my LCD screen would be a little less dramatic when it eventually\nhappened. I didn\'t want to take it in to be repaired before I asked on the\nnet about this because I already know what they\'ll say: "Yep, you gotta have\nthis replaced and it\'s gonna cost you $???."\n\nI\'ve only had the computer for about 21 months. Is that a reasonable life\ncycle for a LCD display? Oh, I guess I ought to give specifics here: the\nbrand is Compudyne (Is this a reputable company?), it\'s a 386SX @ 20 MHz.\nI forget the model number exactly and I was too ticked off to write it down\nbefore coming in to work today.\n\nIf anyone can help me, PLEASE give me any advice you might have. I\'m not\nopposed to having it replaced, but I\'d rather not if it\'s not absolutely\nnecessary. If you wouldn\'t mind, please e-mail me at mike@mik.uky.edu\nbut if you\'d rather post I\'ll be checking back here in a couple of days.\n\nBTW, if the answer to this question is already in a FAQ somewhere, feel\nfree to flame away but I would ask that you also include the location and\nname of the FAQ if you don\'t mind.\n\nThanks in advance for any help...\n\n-Mike Mattone\n(mike@mik.uky.edu) \n\n',
'From: ebrandt@jarthur.claremont.edu (Eli Brandt)\nSubject: Re: Krillean Photography\nOrganization: Harvey Mudd College, Claremont, CA 91711\nLines: 9\n\nIn article <MMEYER.93Apr26102056@m2.dseg.ti.com> mmeyer@m2.dseg.ti.com (Mark Meyer) writes:\n>\tBesides, Kirilian photography is actually photography of my\n>friend\'s two-year-old son Kiril. Perhaps you meant "Kirlian"?\n\nI think it was a typo for "Karelian photography", which is the\npractice of taking pictures of either Finns or Russians, depending\non whom one asks.\n\n Eli ebrandt@jarthur.claremont.edu\n',
"From: decay@cbnewsj.cb.att.com (dean.kaflowitz)\nSubject: Re: free moral agency\nOrganization: AT&T\nDistribution: na\nKeywords: Another thread destined for the kill-file\nLines: 14\n\nIn article <kmr4.1696.735588167@po.CWRU.edu>, kmr4@po.CWRU.edu (Keith M. Ryan) writes:\n> \n> [34mAnd now . . . [35mDeep Thoughts[0m\n> \t[32mby Jack Handey.[0m\n> \n> [36mIf you go parachuting, and your parachute doesn't open, and your\n> friends are all watching you fall, I think a funny gag would be\n> to pretend you were swimming.[0m\n\nYou fall if it opens, too.\n\nGravity: it's not just a good idea; it's the law.\n\nDean Kaflowitz\n",
'From: mikeq@freddy.CNA.TEK.COM (Mike Quigley)\nSubject: Re: Pregnency without sex?\nKeywords: pregnency sex\nOrganization: Tektronix, Inc., Redmond, OR.\nLines: 13\n\nIn article <stephen.735806195@mont> stephen@mont.cs.missouri.edu (Stephen Montgomery-Smith) writes:\n>When I was a school boy, my biology teacher told us of an incident\n>in which a couple were very passionate without actually having\n>sexual intercourse. Somehow the girl became pregnent as sperm\n>cells made their way to her through the clothes via persperation.\n>\n>Was my biology teacher misinforming us, or do such incidents actually\n>occur?\n\nOhboy. Here we go again. And one wonders why the American\neducation system is in such abysmal shape?\n\n\n',
'From: matthews@Oswego.EDU (Harry Matthews)\nSubject: Re: Need info on Circumcision, medical cons and pros\nOrganization: SUNY Oswego\nLines: 3\n\nBULLSHIT ! ! !\n\n\n',
'From: mathew <mathew@mantis.co.uk>\nSubject: Re: Burden of Proof\nOrganization: Mantis Consultants, Cambridge. UK.\nX-Newsreader: rusnews v1.02\nLines: 20\n\nwatson@sce.carleton.ca (Stephen Watson) writes:\n>kmr4@po.CWRU.edu (Keith M. Ryan) writes:\n>>In article <healta.171.735538331@saturn.wwc.edu> healta@saturn.wwc.edu\n>>(Tammy R Healy) writes:\n>>>> "FBI officials said cult leader David Koresh may have \n>>>> forced followers to remain as flames closed in. Koresh\'s \n>>>> armed guard may have injected as many as 24 children with \n>>>> poison to quiet them."\n>>>>\n>>>Do the FBI have proof of this yet?!\n> \n>> Why ask me? I am only quoting the FBI official. Why not ask the FBI?\n> \n> Myabe they\'re lying to cover up, or maybe they\'re telling the truth.\n\nThe 24 children were, of course, killed by a lone gunman in a second story\nwindow, who fired eight bullets in the space of two seconds...\n\n\nmathew\n',
'From: benha@castle.ed.ac.uk (Ben Hambidge)\nSubject: Committing my life to God?\nOrganization: Edinburgh University\nLines: 42\n\nHi everyone,\n\nI\'m trying to find my way to God, but find it difficult as I can\'t hear\nGod talking to me, letting me know that he exists and is with me and\nthat he knows me, and I feel that I can\'t possibly get to know him until\nhe does. Maybe he _is_ talking to me but I just don\'t know or understand\nhow to listen.\n\nSome Christians tell me that (in their opinion) the only way to find God\nis to take a plunge and commit your life to him, and you will discover.\nThis idea of diving into the totally unknown is a little bit\nfrightening, but I have a few questions.\n\n1) How do you actually commit yourself? If I just say, "OK God, her you\ngo, I\'m committing my life to you", I wouldn\'t really feel that he\'d\nlistened - at least, I couldn\'t be sure that he had. So how does one (or\nhow did you) commit oneself to God?\n\n2) In committing myself in this way, what do I have to forfeit of my\ncurrent life? What can I no longer do? I feel that I\'m as \'good\' as many\nChristians, and I try to uphold the idea of \'loving your neighbour\' - I\ndon\'t go round killing people, stealing, etc., and I try not to get\njealous of other people in any way - and I would say that I keep to the\nstandards of treating other people as well as many Christians. So what\ndo I have to give up?\n\n3) When committed, what do I have to do? What does it involve? What (if\nany) burdens am I taking on?\n\n4) So then, what\'s the general difference before and after? I assume,\nthat (like on your birthday you don\'t suddenly feel a year older) it\nwon\'t suddenly change my life the day I commit myself. So what happens?\n\n5) How can I be sure that it is the right thing to do? How can I find\nout what the \'it\' in the last sentence actually _is_?!\n\nThanks very much for all your help in answering these questions. Perhaps\ne-mail would be a better way to reply, but it\'s up to you.\n\nBen.\n<benha@castle.ed.ac.uk> <JANET:benha@uk.ac.ed.castle>\n(20 year-old at University in Scotland)\n',
"Subject: Re: Fractal terrain generator?\nFrom: pdbourke@ccu1.aukuni.ac.nz (Paul David Bourke)\nOrganization: University of Auckland, New Zealand.\nKeywords: fractal terrain mac\nLines: 34\n\ndeb47099@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Daniel E. Bradley) writes:\n\n>\tDoes anyone know of a fractal terrain generator for Mac, something\n>\tI could hopefully import into a 3D program like Swivel or Stratavision?\n>\tI know Infini-D has built in capabilities, but I don't have access to\n>\tInfini-D. I downloaded two programs from Umich, in graphics/fractals,\n>\tbut both were from 1990-91 and crashed under System 7. I think they\n>\twere Black and white anyway. Please, email me if you know of anything,\n>\tas I don't check the newsgroups very often.\n>\t\tThanks in advance.\n>\t\t\tDan Bradley deb47099@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu\n\nYes I have written something that creates meshed fractal terrain\nsurfaces for exactly the purpose you require, importing into 3D\nmodelling packages. Be warned, the data content is high and brings\nmany packages to their knees. We use it primarily for MicroStation\nbut it exports DXF, as well as other formats, so you should be OK.\nYou can get it from my FTP mirror site in the US.\nIt is\n wuarchive.wustl.edu\nmy stuff is located in the\n mirrors/architec\ndirectory. Please FTP the README file first.\n\n-- \nPaul D Bourke School of Architecture, Property, Planning\npdbourke@ccu1.auckland.ac.nz The University of Auckland\nPh: +64 -9 373 7999 x7367 Private Bag 92019\nFax: +64 -9 373 7410 Auckland, New Zealand\n-- \nPaul D Bourke School of Architecture, Property, Planning\npdbourke@ccu1.auckland.ac.nz The University of Auckland\nPh: +64 -9 373 7999 x7367 Private Bag 92019\nFax: +64 -9 373 7410 Auckland, New Zealand\n",
'From: REXLEX@fnal.fnal.gov\nSubject: Re: Athiests and Hell\nOrganization: FNAL/AD/Net\nLines: 81\n\nIn article <May.11.02.36.29.1993.28068@athos.rutgers.edu>\nptrei@bistromath.mitre.org (Peter Trei) writes:\n>In article <May.9.05.38.49.1993.27375@athos.rutgers.edu> REXLEX@fnal.fnal.gov\nwrites:\n>[much deleted] \n>>point today might be the Masons. (Just a note, that they too worshipped \n>>Osiris in Egypt...)\n>[much deleted] \n>\n> It bugs me when I see this kind of nonsense.\n>\n> First, there is no reasonable evidence linking Masonry to ancient\n>Egypt, or even that it existed prior to the late 14th century (and\n>there\'s nothing definitive before the 17th).\n\nMy wifes uncle was a 30+ level mason. He let me look at some of the books\n(which after his death his "brothers" came over and took from his greiving\nwidow before his body had even cooled). Don\'t tell me you don\'t worship\nOsiris. You must not be past your 20th level. You should read Wilkinson\'s\nEgyptians and how he shows this Egyptian religion paralleling his own British\nMasonry. There is a man here at this laboratory who is a 33 degree black\nmason. I\'ve talked with him, though much he likes to hide ("mystery"). \nSpecial handshakes and all. When he first started trying to "evangelize" me,\nhe told me all kinds on special this, and special that. Here is truely a\n"mystery" religion. THere is the public side with motorcyle mania and\nchildrens hospitals and then there is the priviate side that only the highest\ndegree mason every learns of.\n>\n> Second, worship of Osiris is not, nor has it ever been, a part of\n>Masonic practice (we are strictly non-denominational).\n>\nI haven\'t read it, but the literature that is offered by the silver haired\napologist (can\'t remember his name) on TV, didn\'t exactly come to this same\nconclusion. \n\n"Khons, the son of the great goddess-mother, seems to have been gernaerally\nrepresented as a full-grown god. The Babylonian divinity was also represented\nvery frequently in Egupt in the very same wayas in the land of his nativity\n-i.e. as a child in his mother\'s arems. THis was the way in which Osiris, \'the\nson, the husband of his mother,\' was often exhibited, and what we learn of this\ngod, equally as in the case of Khonso, shows that in his original he was none\nother than Nimrod. It is admitted that the secret system of Free Masonry was\noriginally founded on the Mysteries of the Egyptian Isis, the goddess-mother,\nor wife of Osiris. But what could have led to the union of a Masonic body with\nthese Mysteries, had they not had particular reference to architecture, and had\nthe god who was worshipped in them not been celebrated for his success in\nperfecting the arts of fortification and building? Now, if such were the case,\nconsidering the relation in which, as we have already seen, Egypt stood to\nBabylon, who would naturally be liiked up to there as the great patron of the\nMasonic art? The strong presumption is, that Nimrod must have been the man. \nHe was the first that gained faim in this way. As the child of the Babylonian\ngoddess-mother, he was worshipped in the character of Ala mahozim, \'The God of\nFortification.\' Osiris, the child of the Egyptian Modonna, was equally\ncelebrated as \'the strong chief of the buildings.\' THis strong chief of the\nbuildings was origninally worshipped in Egypt with every physicall\ncharacteristic of Nimrod. I have already noticed the fact that Nimrod, as the\nson of Cush, was a negro. Now, there was a tradition in Egypt, recorded by\nPlutarch, that \'Osiris was black\'......." Hislop\n\nIt was like a cold slap to my face, when my wifes uncle brought out his\ncerimonial dress and it was leopard skin. I mean real leopard skin. He told\nme that only the highest of degrees wore the leopard skin. (The reason that he\nstarted telling me all this was that he had just been given a couple of months\nto live and my wife had led him to a saving faith in Christ and he immediately\nrepented from \'mysteries\' of the lodge!)\n\nNimr-rod from Nimr, a "leopard," and rada or rad "To subdue." It is a\nuniversal principle in all idolatries, that the high priest wears the insignia\nof the god he serves. Any representation of Osiris usually show the wearing of\nsome leopard. It is interesting that the Druids of Britian also show, or\nshould I say hide, this representation. They, however, worshipped the "spotted\ncow".\n\nI\'ll stand by my statements. Masonry is of the "mystery" religions that all\nfind their source in Babylon, the great harlot. Sorry Peter, I do not mean to\nbe a "cold slap to the face" but there is to much evidence to the contrary that\nMasonry doesn\'t find its origins in Egypt. Of the Masons I have personally\ntalked to, all refered to Egypt as their origin. Why are you now separating\nyourself from this which not many years ago, was freely admitted?\n\n-Rex\n',
'From: hotopp@ami1.bwi.wec.com (Daniel T. Hotopp)\nSubject: Drivers for Diamond Viper Card\nOrganization: Westinghouse Electronic Systems Group, Baltimore, MD.\nLines: 13\n\nI\'ve been away for a couple of weeks and have become out of touch with the \nlatest information on the Diamond Viper Card. Does anyone know if Diamond \nhas come out with any Vesa Driver updates lately? Also, I was wondering \nwhat the latest Windows Driver version is up to now.\n\n\t\t\t\tThanks in advance,\n\t\t\t\t\tDan\n\n +---------------------------------------------------------------------+\n | Daniel T. Hotopp | INTERNET: hotopp@ami1.bwi.wec.com |\n | Antenna/Microwave/Integration | (W) Vax : tron::"hotopp@ami1" |\n | Westinghouse Electric Corp. | Voice # : (410)765-2931 |\n +---------------------------------------------------------------------+\n',
"From: bakerlj@augustana.edu (LLOYD BAKER)\nSubject: Re: some thoughts.\nLines: 67\nNntp-Posting-Host: 143.226.131.186\nOrganization: Augustana College\nLines: 67\n\nIn article <735424748.AA00437@therose.pdx.com> Alan.Olsen@p17.f40.n105.z1.fidonet.org (Alan Olsen) writes:\n>From: Alan.Olsen@p17.f40.n105.z1.fidonet.org (Alan Olsen)\n>Subject: some thoughts.\n>Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1993 03:25:06 -0800\n>\n>rh> From: house@helios.usq.EDU.AU (ron house)\n>rh> Newsgroups: alt.atheism\n>rh> Organization: University of Southern Queensland\n>\n>rh> bissda@saturn.wwc.edu (DAN LAWRENCE BISSELL) writes:\n>\n>>\tFirst I want to start right out and say that I'm a Christian. It \n>\n>rh> I _know_ I shouldn't get involved, but... :-)\n>\n>rh> [bit deleted]\n>\n>>\tThe book says that Jesus was either a liar, or he was crazy ( a \n>>modern day Koresh) or he was actually who he said he was.\n>[rest of rant deleted]\n>\n>This is a standard argument for fundies. Can you spot the falicy? The\n>statement is arguing from the assumption that Jesus actually existed. So far,\n>they have not been able to offer real proof of that \nexistance. \n\n\n***************************************************************************\n\tI just thought it necessary to help defend the point that Jesus \nexisted. Guys: Jesus existed. If he didnt, then you have to say that \nSocrates didnt exist cuz he, like Jesus, has nothing from his hands that \nhave survived. Only Plato and others record his existance. Many others \nrecord Jesus' existance, including the Babylonian Talmud. Sorry guys, the \nargument that Jesus may not have existed is a dead point now. He did. \nWhether he was God or whether there is a God is a completely different \nstory, however. \n*****************************************************************************\n\n\nMost of them\n>try it using the (very) flawed writings of Josh McDowell and others to prove\n>it, but those writers use VERY flawed sources. (If they are real sources at\n>all, some are not.) When will they ever learn to do real research, instead of\n>believing the drivel sold in the Christian bookstores.\n>\n>rh> Righto, DAN, try this one with your Cornflakes...\n>\n>rh> The book says that Muhammad was either a liar, or he was\n>rh> crazy ( a modern day Mad Mahdi) or he was actually who he\n>rh> said he was. Some reasons why he wouldn't be a liar are as\n>rh> follows. Who would die for a lie? Wouldn't people be able\n>rh> to tell if he was a liar? People gathered around him and\n>rh> kept doing it, many gathered from hearing or seeing how his\n>rh> son-in-law made the sun stand still. Call me a fool, but I\n>rh> believe he did make the sun stand still. \n>rh> Niether was he a lunatic. Would more than an entire nation\n>rh> be drawn to someone who was crazy. Very doubtful, in fact\n>rh> rediculous. For example anyone who is drawn to the Mad\n>rh> Mahdi is obviously a fool, logical people see this right\n>rh> away.\n>rh> Therefore since he wasn't a liar or a lunatic, he must have\n>rh> been the real thing. \n>\n>Nice rebutal!\n>\n> Alan\n>\n",
'From: mathew <mathew@mantis.co.uk>\nSubject: Re: Gulf War and Peace-niks\nOrganization: Mantis Consultants, Cambridge. UK.\nX-Newsreader: rusnews v1.02\nLines: 8\n\nmccullou@snake12.cs.wisc.edu (Mark McCullough) writes:\n> We seem to be agreeing that the soldiers were just doing their job\n> as best they could, following orders. \n\nProof positive that some people are beyond satire.\n\n\nmathew\n',
'Organization: Arizona State University\nFrom: <ICGLN@ASUACAD.BITNET>\nSubject: Re: Burzynski\'s "Antineoplastons"\n <93111.145432ICGLN@ASUACAD.BITNET> <C6BJyt.A1K@ssr.com>\nLines: 37\n\nnnget 93122.1300541\nIn article <C6BJyt.A1K@ssr.com>, sdb@ssr.com (Scott Ballantyne) says:\n>\n>In article <93111.145432ICGLN@ASUACAD.BITNET> <ICGLN@ASUACAD.BITNET> writes:\n>\n>\n>Moss is People Against Cancer\'s Director of Communications. People\n>Against Cancer seems to offer pretty questionable information, not\n>exactly the place a cancer patient should be advised to turn to.\n\nAnd where do you advise people to turn for cancer information?\n\n\n Most\n>(maybe all) of the infomation in their latest catalogue concern\n>treatments that have been shown to be ineffective against cancer, and\n>many of the treatments are quite dangerous as well.\n\nIt seems to me you\'ve offered a circular refutation of Moss\'s organization. Who\nhas shown the information in the latest book of PAC to be questionable? Could\nit be those \'regulatory\' agencies and medical industries which Moss is showing\nto be operating with *major* vested interests. Whether one believes that these\nvested interests are real or not, or whether or not they actually shape medical\nresearch is a seperate argument. If one sees a possibility, however, that these\ninterests exist, then the \'fact\' that some of the information put out by PAC\nhas been refuted by the medical industry doesn\'t hold much weight.\n\nAs for the ineffectiveness of antineoplasteons, the fact that the NIH didn\'t\nfind them effective doesn\'t make much sense here. Of course they didn\'t! I\ntend to have more faith in the word of the patients who are now alive after\nbeing told years ago that they would be dead of cancer soon. They are fighting\nlike hell to keep that clinic open, and they credit his treatment with their\nsurvival. Anyone who looks at the NIH\'s record for investigation of \'alterna-\ntive\' cancer therapies will easily see that they have a strange knack for find-\ning relatively cheap and nontoxic therapies dangerous or useless.\n\ngn\n',
'From: cctr114@cantua.canterbury.ac.nz (Bill Rea)\nSubject: Re: Portland earthquake\nOrganization: University of Canterbury, Christchurch, New Zealand.\nLines: 64\n\nBill Rea (cctr114@cantua.canterbury.ac.nz) wrote:\n> His theology clashed with the theology of the\n> local prophets. It was out of a very deep understanding of the Mosaic\n> covenant and an actute awareness of international events that Jeremiah\n> spoke his prophesies. The "judgement prophesies" were deeply loaded with\n> theological meaning.\n\n> In my opinion, both the Portland earthquake prophesy and the David Wilkerson\n> "New York will burn" prophesy are froth and bubble compared to the majestic\n> theological depths of the Jeremiah prophesies.\n\nPerhaps one other thing I should have added is that Jeremiah\'s prophesies\nabout the coming destruction of Jerusalem would have been understood by\nthe people of that time to be a full frontal assault on their understanding\nof their relationship with the Lord. Today the if the general populace \nhears "prophesies" like the Portland earthquake or New York will burn\nones, they are unlikely to see it in the context of their relationship\n(or lack of it) with the Lord. They are far more likely to think that\nthey are just the result of the fevered imaginations of a religious nutter.\nThat is one reason why I am always deep;y suspicious of bald judgement\nprophesies without any explanation of the reasons for the judgement. This\ndoesn\'t have to be long winded. To see a relatively modern example look\nat Abraham Lincoln\'s second inaugural speech. The relevant section is\nbelow. It is this type of spiritual insight which was missing in both\nprophesies posted here.\n\n--- Excerpt from Abraham Lincoln\'s 2nd Inaugural speech----\n\nBoth read the same Bible, and pray \nto the same God; and each invokes His aid against the other. It may seem \nstrange that any men should dare to ask a just God\'s assistance in wringing \ntheir bread from the sweat of other men\'s faces; but let us judge not\nthat we be not judged. The prayers of both could not he answered that of neither\nhas been answered fully. The Almighty has His own purposes. \'\'Woe unto the\nworld because of offences! for it must needs be that offences come; but woe to\nthat man by whom the offence cometh" If we shall suppose that American \nSlavery is one of those offences which, in the provdence of God, must needs come\nbut which, having continued through His appointed time, He now wills to remove\nand that He gives to both North and South, this terrible war, as the woe due to\nthose by whom the offence came, shall we discern therein an departure from\nthose divine attribute which the believers in a Living God always ascribe \nto Him ? Fondly do we hope - fervently do we pray - that this mighty \nscourge of war may speedily pass away. Yet, if God wills that it continue, \nuntil all the wealth piled by the bond-man\'s two hundred and fifty years of \nunrequited toil shall be sunk, and until every drop of blood drawn with \nthe lash shall be paid by another drawn with the sword, as was said three \nthousand years ago, so still it must be said "the judgments of the Lord, \nare true and righteous altogether"\n With malice toward none; with charity for all; with firmness in the right, \nas God gives us to see the right, let us strive on to finish the work we \nare in; to bind up the nation\'s wounds; to care for him who shall have \nborne the battle, and for his widow, and his orphan - to do all which \nmay achieve and cherish a just, and a lasting peace, among ourselves, \nand with all nations.\n\n\n--\n ___\nBill Rea (o o)\n-------------------------------------------------------------------w--U--w---\n| Bill Rea, Computer Services Centre, | E-Mail b.rea@csc.canterbury.ac.nz |\n| University of Canterbury, | or cctr114@csc.canterbury.ac.nz |\n| Christchurch, New Zealand | Phone (03)-642-331 Fax (03)-642-999 |\n-----------------------------------------------------------------------------\n',
'From: cobb@alexia.lis.uiuc.edu (Mike Cobb)\nSubject: Re: Societally acceptable behavior\nOrganization: University of Illinois at Urbana\nLines: 59\n\nIn <1qvh8tINNsg6@citation.ksu.ksu.edu> yohan@citation.ksu.ksu.edu (Jonathan W \nNewton) writes:\n\n\n>In article <C5qGM3.DL8@news.cso.uiuc.edu>, cobb@alexia.lis.uiuc.edu (Mike \nCobb) writes:\n>>Merely a question for the basis of morality\n>>\n>>Moral/Ethical behavior = _Societally_ _acceptable_ _behavior_.\n\n>I disagree with these. What society thinks should be irrelevant. What the\n>individual decides is all that is important.\n\nThis doesn\'t seem right. If I want to kill you, I can because that is what I\ndecide?\n>>\n>>1)Who is society\n\n>I think this is fairly obvious\n\nNot really. If whatever a particular society mandates as ok is ok, there are\nalways some in the "society" who disagree with the mandates, so which \nsocietal mandates make the standard for morality?\n >>\n>>2)How do "they" define what is acceptable?\n\n>Generally by what they "feel" is right, which is the most idiotic policy I can\n>think of.\n\nSo what should be the basis? Unfortunately I have to admit to being tied at \nleast loosely to the "feeling", in that I think we intuitively know some things\nto be wrong. Awfully hard to defend, though.\n>>\n>>3)How do we keep from a "whatever is legal is what is "moral" "position?\n\n>By thinking for ourselves.\n\nI might agree here. Just because certain actions are legal does not make them\n"moral".\n>>\n>>MAC\n>>--\n>>****************************************************************\n>> Michael A. Cobb\n>> "...and I won\'t raise taxes on the middle University of Illinois\n>> class to pay for my programs." Champaign-Urbana\n>> -Bill Clinton 3rd Debate cobb@alexia.lis.uiuc.edu\n>> \n>>With new taxes and spending cuts we\'ll still have 310 billion dollar \ndeficits.\n\n--\n****************************************************************\n Michael A. Cobb\n "...and I won\'t raise taxes on the middle University of Illinois\n class to pay for my programs." Champaign-Urbana\n -Bill Clinton 3rd Debate cobb@alexia.lis.uiuc.edu\n \nNobody can explain everything to anybody. G.K.Chesterton\n',
'From: Zheng Wang <zw10+@andrew.cmu.edu>\nSubject: help\nOrganization: Sponsored account, Physics, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA\nLines: 12\nNNTP-Posting-Host: po2.andrew.cmu.edu\n\nHi there,\n\nI am here looking for some help.\n\nMy friend is a interior decor designer. He is from Thailand. He is\ntrying to find some graphics software on PC. Any suggestion on which\nsoftware to buy,where to buy and how much it costs ? He likes the most\nsophisticated \nsoftware(the more features it has,the better)\n\nThanks in advance\n\n',
'From: GMILLS@CHEMICAL.watstar.uwaterloo.ca (Phil Trodwell)\nSubject: Re: Societally acceptable behavior\nLines: 75\nOrganization: University of Waterloo\n\nIn article <C5qGM3.DL8@news.cso.uiuc.edu> cobb@alexia.lis.uiuc.edu (Mike Cobb) writes:\n>From: cobb@alexia.lis.uiuc.edu (Mike Cobb)\n>Subject: Societally acceptable behavior\n>Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1993 13:39:39 GMT\n>Merely a question for the basis of morality\n>\n>Moral/Ethical behavior = _Societally_ _acceptable_ _behavior_.\n>1)Who is society\n>2)How do "they" define what is acceptable?\n>3)How do we keep from a "whatever is legal is what is "moral" "position?\n>MAC\n\nWow! You got me thinking now!\n\nThis is an interesting question in that recently there has been a \nmove in society to classify previously "socially unacceptable" yet legal \nactivities as OK. In the past it seems to me there were always two \ncoexisting methods of social control.\n\nFirst (and most explicit) is legal control. That is the set of \nactions we define as currently illegal and having a specifically defined set \nof punishments.\n\nSecondly (and somewhat more hidden) is social control. These are \nthe actions which are considered socially unacceptable and while not covered \nby legal control, are scrictly controled by social censure. Ideally (if \nsocialization is working as it should) legal control is hardly ever needed \nsince most people voluntarilly control their actions due to the pressure of \nsocial censure.\n\nThe control manifests itself in day-to-day life as "guilt" and \n"morality". I\'ve heard it said (and fully believe) that if it weren\'t for \nthe VAST majority of people policing themselves, legal control would be \nabsolutely impossible.\n\nLately (last 50, 100 years?) however there has been a move to \nattempt to dissengage the individual from societal control (ie. if it ain\'t \nillegal, then don\'t pick on me). I\'m not saying this is wrong, merely \nthat it is a byproduct of a society which has:\n\n\t1) A high education level,\n\t2) A high exposure to alternative ideas via the popular media,\n\t3) A high level of institutionalized individual rights, and\n\t4) A "me" oriented culture.\n\nI guess what I\'m saying is that we appear to be in a state of transition, \nhere in the western world in that we still have many ideas about what we can\\\ncan\'t allow people to do based entirely on personal squeamishness, yet we \nare fully bent on maximizing individual freedoms to the max as long as \nthose freedoms don\'t impinge on another\'s.\n\nIMHO society is trying to persue two mutually exclusive ends here. While we \nappreciate and persue individual rights (these satisfy the old \nterritoriality and dominance instincts), the removal of socialized, \ninherent fears based on ignorance will result in the \ncontinued destabilization of society. \n\nI got no quick fix. I have no idea how we can get ourselves out of this \nmess. I know I would never consent to the roll-back of personal freedoms \nin order to "stabilize" society. Yet I believe development of societies \nfollow a Darwinian process which selects for stability. Can we find a \nsocial model which maximizes indiv. freed.\'s yet is stable? Perhaps it is \npossible to live with a "non-stable" society?\n\nAnybody see a way out? Comments?\n\nPS. Therefore answer to question #3: We don\'t. Do we want to?\n\n\n\nPhil Trodwell \n\n*** This space ***| "I\'d be happy to ram a goddam 440-volt cattle\n*** for rent. ***| prod into that tub with you right now, but not\n*** (cheap) ***| this radio!" -Hunter S. Thompson\n',
'From: hudson@athena.cs.uga.edu (Paul Hudson Jr)\nSubject: Re: Homosexuality issues in Christianity\nOrganization: University of Georgia, Athens\nLines: 37\n\nIn article <May.13.02.30.39.1993.1545@geneva.rutgers.edu> noye@midway.uchicago.edu writes:\n>i believe that the one\n>important thing that those who wrote the old and new testament\n>passages cited above did NOT know was that there is scientific\n>evidence to support that homosexuality is at least partly _inherent_\n>rather than completely learned.\n\nNote that "scientific evidence" in this area does not prove any conclusions.\nThere has been evidence to suggest that a certain part of homosexual\'s\nbrains are different from heterosexuals- but that proves very little.\n\nAlso notice that the apostles did not have with them the "scientific\nevidence" linking certain genes with alcoholism, or stealing with certain\ngenetic problems. Even if they did have scientific evidence, I doubt it\nwould have stopped them from communicating the teaching from the Holy \nSpirit that these things are sinful.\n\nThis reminds me of a conversation with a professor of mine. He said \nsomething very true. Christianity teaches that we should not give in\nto our every inclination. Most people do give in to their leanings.\nIn Christianity, we have the concept of struggling with the flesh,\nand bringing it into submission. One person may have a problem with\nhis temper, and having a murderous heart, another may have a problem\nwith homosexuality, another may be inclined to greed. But God offers\nus the opportunity to be more than conquerers.\n\n>sources where you can find this information, there is homosexual\n>behavior recorded among monkeys and other animals, which is in itself\n>suggestive that it is inherent rather than learned, or at least that\n>the word "unnatural" shouldn\'t really apply....\n\nThe preying mantis bites the head off of her mate after she mates\nwith him. Is it natural for a woman to do the same thing to her husband?\nThe Bible is concerned with human morality, and only touches on animal\nmorality as it relates to humans.\n\nLink Hudson.\n',
'From: edwest@gpu.utcc.utoronto.ca (Dr. Edmund West)\nSubject: AVS presentation\nOrganization: UTCC Public Access\nDistribution: tor\nLines: 46\n\n University of Toronto\n Instructional and Research Computing\n\n is sponsoring a technical presentation\n on Visualization Software\n\n\n _\x08A_\x08d_\x08v_\x08a_\x08n_\x08c_\x08e_\x08d _\x08V_\x08i_\x08s_\x08u_\x08a_\x08l _\x08S_\x08y_\x08s_\x08t_\x08e_\x08m_\x08s (_\x08A_\x08V_\x08S) _\x08S_\x08o_\x08f_\x08t_\x08w_\x08a_\x08r_\x08e\n\n\n 2:10 PM - 4:00 PM\n Thursday, May 6, 1993\n Sandford Fleming Building\n Room 1105\n\n\n"Advanced Visual Systems will present this technical seminar on\nAVS, the world\'s leading visualization software package. AVS is\na point and click, module driven, easy-to-use product that\nproduces full color, two or three dimensional rendered scenes for\ninteractive observation. It is supported on all current Unix\nRISC platforms from Sun, SGI, IBM, H-P, DG, and DEC. It also\nruns under DEC VMS.\n\n"AVS is in its fourth year on the street and is very mature. All\nfields of science, engineering, medicine, and even business\napplications now use AVS. This seminar will focus on its many\nfeatures in technical detail during a half hour slide\npresentation. Following a question period there will be a live\ndemonstration using a Sun SPARCstation. In addition, a new AVS\nprogram called CAMPUS will be introduced at this meeting.\n\n"Also discussed will be the International AVS Center, which\nprovides an on-line repository of over 1000 graphics modules at\nthe North Carolina Supercomputer Center in Raliegh, NC. AVS has\nimbedded tools to write one\'s own customized modules should these\nnot be available with AVS or from AVS International."\n\n\n _\x08S_\x08p_\x08e_\x08a_\x08k_\x08e_\x08r_\x08s\n\n The scheduled speaker for this presentation is Mr. Paul\nEcklund of Ecklund Associates, the distributor of AVS in\nCanada.\n\n _\x08T_\x08h_\x08i_\x08s _\x08p_\x08r_\x08e_\x08s_\x08e_\x08n_\x08t_\x08a_\x08t_\x08i_\x08o_\x08n _\x08i_\x08s _\x08o_\x08p_\x08e_\x08n _\x08t_\x08o _\x08t_\x08h_\x08e _\x08p_\x08u_\x08b_\x08l_\x08i_\x08c\n',
'From: calzone@athena.mit.edu\nSubject: Legality of placebos?\nOrganization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology\nLines: 23\nDistribution: world\nNNTP-Posting-Host: w20-575-2.mit.edu\n\n\n\nHow is it that placebos are legal? It would seem to me that if, as a patient,\nyou purchase a drug you\'ve been prescribed and it\'s just sugar (or whatever),\nthere\'s a few legal complications that arise:\n\n\t1. \nIf you have been diagnosed with a condition and you aren\'t given accepted\ntreatment for it, it seems like intentional medical malpractice.\n\n\t2.\nA placebo should fall, legally, under the label of quackery (why not?)\n\n\t3.\nGetting what you pay for. (Deceptive "bait and switch" to an extreme...). False\nadvertising (what if McDonalds didn\'t put 100% pure beef in their hamburgers?)\n\n\n\tSo I\'m mystified. Are these assumptions erred? If they aren\'t, why the\nhell can a doctor knowingly or unknowingly prescribe a placebo?\n\nThanks\ncalzone\n',
'From: mam@mouse.cmhnet.org (Mike McAngus)\nSubject: Re: Christian Morality is\nOrganization: The cat is on the mat \nX-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL9]\nLines: 36\n\nOn 20 Apr 93 13:38:34 GMT dps@nasa.kodak.com (Dan Schaertel,,,) wrote:\n>In article 11853@vice.ICO.TEK.COM, bobbe@vice.ICO.TEK.COM (Robert Beauchaine) writes:\n>|>\n>|> Yet I am still not a believer. Is god not concerned with my\n>|> disposition? Why is it beneath him to provide me with the\n>|> evidence I would require to believe? The evidence that my\n>|> personality, given to me by this god, would find compelling?\n\n>The fact is God could cause you to believe anything He wants you to. \n>But think about it for a minute. Would you rather have someone love\n>you because you made them love you, or because they wanted to\n>love you. The responsibility is on you to love God and take a step toward\n>Him. He promises to be there for you, but you have to look for yourself.\n>Those who doubt this or dispute it have not givin it a sincere effort.\n\nI and many others on a.a have described how we have tried to find god.\nAre you saying our efforts have not been sincere? For all the effort\nI have put in, there has been no outward nor inward change that I can\nperceive. What\'s a sincerely searching Agnostic or Atheist supposed to\ndo when even the search turns up nothing?\n\n>Simple logic arguments are folly. If you read the Bible you will see\n>that Jesus made fools of those who tried to trick him with "logic".\n>Our ability to reason is just a spec of creation. Yet some think it is\n>the ultimate. If you rely simply on your reason then you will never\n>know more than you do now. To learn you must accept that which\n>you don\'t know.\n\nHow do you "accept that which you don\'t know"? Do you mean that I must\nbelieve in your god in order to believe in your god?\n\n--\nMike McAngus | The Truth is still the Truth\nmam@mouse.cmhnet.org | Even if you choose to ignore it.\n |\n(Some of the old .sig viruses are still the best)\n',
'From: gt7122b@prism.gatech.edu (Randal Lee Nicholas Mandock)\nSubject: Re: The doctrine of Original Sin\nOrganization: Georgia Institute of Technology\nLines: 20\n\nIn article <May.12.04.29.14.1993.9997@athos.rutgers.edu> mdw33310@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Michael D. Walker) writes:\n\n>\tMy feeling on baptism is this: parents baptize their baby so that the\n>\tbaby has the sanctifying grace of baptism (and thus removal of original\n>\tsin) on its soul in the event of an unexpected death.\n\nYou are right, Michael.\n\nIn John 3:5, Jesus says, "Amen, amen, I say to you, no one can enter the\nkingdom of God without being born of water and Spirit." That\'s really what\nHe said, and He meant it. That verse is the definition of baptism. I don\'t\nhave the law book in front of me, but there is a canon law that urges\nparents to baptize their children within one week of birth for the very\nreason that you state.\n\n\n-- \nRandal Lee Nicholas Mandock \nCatechist\ngt7122b@prism.gatech.edu \n',
'From: frank@D012S658.uucp (Frank O\'Dwyer)\nSubject: Re: After 2000 years, can we say that Christian Morality is\nOrganization: Siemens-Nixdorf AG\nLines: 59\nNNTP-Posting-Host: d012s658.ap.mchp.sni.de\n\nIn article <16BB7B468.I3150101@dbstu1.rz.tu-bs.de> I3150101@dbstu1.rz.tu-bs.de (Benedikt Rosenau) writes:\n#In article <1r0fpv$p11@horus.ap.mchp.sni.de>\n#frank@D012S658.uucp (Frank O\'Dwyer) writes:\n# \n#(Deletion)\n#># Point: Morals are, in essence, personal opinions. Usually\n#>#(ideally) well-founded, motivated such, but nonetheless personal. The\n#>#fact that a real large lot of people agree on some moral question,\n#>#sometimes even for the same reason, does not make morals objective; it\n#>#makes humans somewhat alike in their opinions on that moral question,\n#>#which can be good for the evolution of a social species.\n#>\n#>And if a "real large lot" (nice phrase) of people agree that there is a\n#>football on a desk, I\'m supposed to see a logical difference between the two?\n#>Perhaps you can explain the difference to me, since you seem to see it\n#>so clearly.\n#>\n#(rest deleted)\n# \n#That\'s a fallacy, and it is not the first time it is pointed out.\n\nIt\'s not a fallacy - note the IF. IF a supermajority of disinterested people \nagree on a fundamantal value (we\'re not doing ethics YET Benedikt), then what \nis the difference between that and those people agreeing on a trivial\nobservation?\n\n#For one, you have never given a set of morals people agree upon. Unlike\n#a football. Further, you conveniently ignore here that there are\n#many who would not agree on tghe morality of something. The analogy\n#does not hold.\n\nI have, however, given an example of a VALUE people agree on, and explained\nwhy. People will agree that their freedom is valuable. I have also\nstated that such a value is a necessary condition for doing objective\nethics - the IF assertion above. And that is what I\'m talking about, there\nisn\'t a point in talking about ethics if this can\'t be agreed.\n\n#One can expect sufficiently many people to agree on its being a football,\n#while YOU have to give the evidence that only vanishing number disagrees\n#with a set of morals YOU have to give.\n\nI\'m not doing morals (ethics) if we can\'t get past values. As I say,\nthe only cogent objection to my \'freedom\' example is that maybe people\naren\'t talking about the same thing when they answer that it is valuable.\nMaybe not, and I want to think about this some, especially the implications\nof its being true.\n\n#Further, the above is evidence, not proof. Proof would evolve out of testing\n#your theory of absolute morals against competing theories.\n\nGarbage. That\'s not proof either.\n\n#The above is one of the arguments you reiterate while you never answer\n#the objections. Evidence that you are a preacher.\n\nName that fallacy.\n-- \nFrank O\'Dwyer \'I\'m not hatching That\'\nodwyer@sse.ie from "Hens", by Evelyn Conlon\n',
"From: hoss@panix.com (Felix the Cat)\nSubject: Re: A Good place for Back Surgery?\nOrganization: PANIX Public Access Unix, NYC\nX-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]\nDistribution: usa\nLines: 24\n\ngary.schuetter (garyws@cbnewsg.cb.att.com) wrote:\n\n: \t\n: Hello,\n\n: Just one quick question:\n: My father has had a back problem for a long time and doctors\n: have diagnosed an operation is needed. Since he lives down in\n: Mexico, he wants to know if there is a hospital anywhere in\n: the United States particulary famous for this kind of surgery,\n: kind of like Houston has a reputation for excellent doctors\n: in eye surgery. Any additional info or pointers will be\n: appreciated a whole lot!...\n\nThere is one hospital that is here in New York City that is famous for its\northopedists, namely the Hospital for Special Surgery. They are located on\nthe upper east side of manhattan. If you want their address and phone let\nme know, i'll get them, i dont know them off hand.\n\n-- \n /\\ _ /\\ | Felix The Cat\n | 0 0 |-------\\== The Wonderful, Wonderful Cat! \n \\==@==/\\ ____\\ | ===============================\n Meow!--- \\_-_/ || || hoss@panix.com\n",
"From: hartman@informix.com (Robert Hartman)\nSubject: Re: INFO: Colonics and Purification?\nOrganization: Informix Software, Inc.\nLines: 41\n\nIn article <1rjn0eINNnqn@MINERVA.CIS.YALE.EDU> wiesel-elisha@yale.edu (Elisha Wiesel) writes:\n>Recently I've come upon a body of literature which promotes colon\n>cleansing as a vital aid to preventive medicine through nutrition. \n\nNo doubt the sci.med* folks are getting out their flamethrowers. I'm\nrather certain that the information you got was not medical literature\nin the accepted academic/scientific journals. So, the righteous among\nthem will no doubt jump on that.\n\nAlso, insofar as it doesn't conform to the accepted medical presumption\nthat it just doesn't matter what you eat, and that we can think of the\nGI tract as a black box in which nothing ever goes wrong (except for\nmaybe cancer and ulcers), the righteous will no doubt jump on that too.\n\nThen there'll be the ones who call your doctor a raving quack, even\nthough he, like Linus Pauling, is lucid and robust well into his\nnineties--but nevermind about that. He shouldn't charge for his\nequipment and supplies, since they're no doubt not approved by the\nFDA. Of course, with FDA approval an MD or pharmaceutical company can\ncharge whatever they can get for such safe and effective treatments as\nthalidomide. But nevermind about that either.\n\nUnfortunately, you dared to step into the sacred turf of Net.Medical.\nDiscussion without a credential and without understanding that the\nrighteous among them will make certain that you are suitably denounced\nbefore dismissing you as a fool.\n\nBut maybe somebody without such a huge chip on their shoulder will\nsend you some reasonable responses by e-mail.\n\n1/2 ;^) \n\n1/2 ;^(\n\nOh yes, I did have a point. A few years ago an MD with a thriving\npractice in a very wealthy part of Silicon Valley once recommended that\nI take such treatments to clear up a skin condition. (Not through his\noffice, I might add.) Although I'm sure that's not conclusive, it was\nsure an unusual prescription!\n\n-r\n",
'From: spl@ivem.ucsd.edu (Steve Lamont)\nSubject: Re: RGB to HVS, and back\nOrganization: University of Calif., San Diego/Microscopy and Imaging Resource\nLines: 18\nDistribution: world\nNNTP-Posting-Host: ivem.ucsd.edu\n\nIn article <ltu4buINNe7j@caspian.usc.edu> zyeh@caspian.usc.edu (zhenghao yeh) writes:\n>|> See Foley, van Dam, Feiner, and Hughes, _Computer Graphics: Principles\n>|> and Practice, Second Edition_.\n>|> \n>|> [If people would *read* this book, 75 percent of the questions in this\n>|> froup would disappear overnight...]\n>|> \n>\tNot really. I think it is less than 10%.\n\nNah... I figure most people would be so busy reading that they wouldn\'t\nhave *time* to post. :-) :-) :-)\n\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\tspl\n-- \nSteve Lamont, SciViGuy -- (619) 534-7968 -- spl@szechuan.ucsd.edu\nSan Diego Microscopy and Imaging Resource/UC San Diego/La Jolla, CA 92093-0608\n"Until I meet you, then, in Upper Hell\nConvulsed, foaming immortal blood: farewell" - J. Berryman, "A Professor\'s Song"\n',
'From: picl25@fsphy1.physics.fsu.edu (PICL account_25)\nSubject: Re: Miscelaneous soon-to-have-baby questions\nOrganization: Florida State University - School of Higher Thought\nNews-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.4-b1 \nReply-To: picl25@fsphy1.physics.fsu.edu\nDistribution: all\nLines: 37\n\nIn article <C66919.Inz@world.std.com>, rmccown@world.std.com (Bob McCown) writes...\n>We\'re about to have our first baby, and have a few questions that we\n>dont seem to be able to get answered to our satisfaction. \n> \n>Reguarding having a baby boy circumsized, what are the medical pros\n>and cons? All we\'ve heard is \'its up to the parents\'.\n> \nUnfortonately, that truly is about the best summation of the research\nthat there is. Advantages stated of circumcison included probably\nprevention of penile cancer, (which, interestingly, occurs mostly in men\nwhose personal hygiene is exceptionally poor), simplicity of personal\nhygiene, prevention of urinary tract infections, and prevention of\na unretractible foreskin, Disadvantages include infection from the \nprocedure, pain, etc. I apologize; I am trying to pull this off\nthe top of my head. I will post what I discovered in research; I did\na paper on the topic in my research class in Nursing school.\nIt really is a decision that is up to the parents. Some parents use\nthe reasoning that they will "look like Daddy" and like their friends\nas justification. There is nothing wrong with this; just be sure it is\nwhat you want to do, since it is rather difficult to uncircumcise\na male, although a major surgical procedure exists.\n\n>How about the pregnant woman sitting in a tub of water? We\'ve heard \n>stories of infection, etc. How about after the water has broken?\n> \nAs long as your membranes have not broken and you have not had any\nproblems with your pregnancy, it should be OK to sit in a tub of water.\nHOWEVER, I WOULD RECOMMEND USING YOUR OWN BATHTUB IN YOUR OWN HOME!\nIt is nearly impossible to guarantee the cleanliness and safety of "public"\nhot tubs. A nice warm bath can be very relaxing, especially if your back\nis killing you! And it would possibly be advisable to avoid bubble bath\nsoap , esp. if you are prone to yeast infection.\n\nHope these tips help you some.\n\nElisa\npicl25@fsphy1.physics.fsu.edu\n',
"From: rhaller@ns.uoregon.edu (Rich Haller)\nSubject: ReSound hearing aid theory as I understand it\nOrganization: University of Oregon\nLines: 41\nDistribution: world\nNNTP-Posting-Host: rhaller.cc.uoregon.edu\n\nThe following is based on copies I was given of some articles published in\nHearing Instruments. I would appreciate any comments about this and other\n'new' technology for hearing aids.\n\nThe ReSound system was developed on the basis of some research at AT&T and\nappears to take a different approach from other aids. It appears to me that\na new 'programmable' aid like the Widex just uses a more flexible (and\nprogrammable) version of the classical approach of amplifying some parts of\nthe spectrum more than others and adding some compression to try and help\nout in 'noisy' situations.\n\nThe major difference in the ReSound approach is that it divides the\nspectrum into low and high frequencies (splitting point is programmable),\napparently based on the fact that lots of vowel information can be found in\nthe low frequencies, while the important consonant information\n(unfortunately for me) is in the high frequencies. The two bands then are\ntreated with different compression schemes which are programable. They have\nalso developed a new fitting algorythm that builds on what they call\n'abnormal growth of loudness'.\n\nThis latter is interesting and fits my own personal experience, though I\nthink the phrase is missleading. What appears to be the case is that as you\nexceed the minimum threshold for a person with hearing loss, the deficit\nbecomes progresslively less compared to normals and by the time you reach\nthe 'too loud' point the sensitivity curves appear to converge. This means\nthat if you just boost all sound levels, you are overloading at the high\nend for people with hearing losses. Hence what you want is progressively\nless amplification as the signal get closer to the maximum tolerable point.\nYou want to boost low volume sounds more than high and do so potentially\ndifferently for the low and high frequency parts of the spectrum (specially\nfor someone like me who is relatively normal up to 1000 cps and then falls\noff a cliff).\n\nAids with simple compressors don't descriminate between energy in the low\nand high frequencies and can therefor 'compress' useful high frequency\ninformation because of high volume of low frequency components.\nParticularly impressive was the ReSound performance with whispered speech\nand in simulated restaurant noise situations. \n\n-Rich Haller <rhaller@ns.uoregon.edu> University of Oregon, Eugene, OR,\nUSA\n",
'From: carlos@carlos.jpr.com (Carlos Dominguez)\nSubject: Re: Where did the hacker ethic go?\nReply-To: carlos@carlos.jpr.com\nOrganization: Private Helldiver/Usenet system, Brooklyn, NY, USA\nLines: 38\nX-Newsreader: Helldiver 1.07 (Waffle 1.65)\n\nIn <1sp4qj$243@dorsai.dorsai.org> crawls@dorsai.dorsai.org (Charles Rawls) writes:\n\n>The hacker ethic is ALIVE and WELL here. I know of what you speak, and my\n>only answer is "SCREW \'EM". You have to do what make you feel right.\n\namen.. I too have learned by example, specifically yours. :)\n\n>What can I say but keep the faith, there are others who do likewise.\n\n.. but dorsai leads the way.. Unlike other services that are commercial\nin nature, dorsai is a community based service. While others charge\nmonthly fees for access, dorsai accepts donations from those who can\nafford to contribute.\n\n While other systems don\'t respond to user input, dorsai thrives on it.\nOther systems sell hardware for a profit, dorsai donates hardware to\ncommunity service groups, and to individuals who couldn\'t afford to\nnormally.\n\n Dorsai lives due to the "hacker" ethic of Charles, Jack, Skip, Cara,\nIra, Mark, David etc etc etc.. sleepless nights and days working on\nequipment thats been assembled at the embassy, ( and modifying what\never else available to work the first time..) in order to keep the\nslip line up...\n\n Heres to you bud... I\'m one of the few that decided to\nstay, and am damn glad that I did..... :)\n\n\n\n\n\n\n-- \n """ | Carlos Dominguez - Sys-admin, owner, kibbitzer\n -(o o)- | ----------------------------------------------\n -----oOO--(_)--OOo----- | root@carlos.UUCP or uupsi!jpradley!carlos!carlos\n ask me about HELLDIVER. | carlos@carlos.jpr.com ( guaranteed address )\n',
"From: shellgate!llo@uu4.psi.com (Larry L. Overacker)\nSubject: Re: If There Were No Hell\nOrganization: Shell Oil\nLines: 38\n\nOFM Comments:\n\n>[The only problem with this is that Jesus does use hell as a threat.\n>He doesn't sound like some of the more extreme fire and brimstone\n>preachers, and I don't think he wants people to live in abject fear.\n>But he talks a lot about people being found unworthy, and mentions\n>hell a number of times. I agree that it might be more pleasant to\n>think that it doesn't exist. I certainly don't agree that God is some\n>sort of sadist who tortures people forever. But I am very much afraid\n>that there really is a life and death spiritual struggle going on, and\n>that it is possible for people to lose in a serious way. --clh]\n\nNo disagreement at all that there is a VERY serious struggle going on.\nBut Jesus more typically uses consequences as a threat. That's quite\ndifferent from Hell Classic (TM). :-) Jesus doesn't sound like the\nusual hell-fire type of preacher. He attracts people through what he\ndoes. And the stongest example in Jesus preaching is in the parable of \nLazarus and Dives, which is a parable! In any case, my point is that\na fear-based response to Christ is not a freeing, life-affirming choice\nand isn't Good News in a meaningful sense. There are plenty of good \nreasons to follow Jesus that have nothing to do with fear or a literal \nhell, that still pertain to overcoming in the present struggle between \nGod and the Disloyal Opposition. A faith based in fear is not built\non Rock, as we should found our faith, but on ice. If the fear were\nremoved, there would BE no foundation. \n\nThat's basically why it matters to me. I think we have many Christians \nthat DON'T have a solid basis for relating to the living Incarnate God.\nI cannot be fully open to the working of God in and through my life if\nmy response to God is motivated on fear. \n\nLarry Overacker (llo@shell.com)\n\n-- \n-------\nLawrence Overacker\nShell Oil Company, Information Center Houston, TX (713) 245-2965\nllo@shell.com\n",
'From: jesse@eye.com (Jesse Lackey)\nSubject: Re: Fast polygon routine needed\nKeywords: polygon, needed\nOrganization: 3D/EYE, Inc. Ithaca, NY\nLines: 20\n\nIn article <1rguqoINNrc@edna.cc.swin.edu.au> alan@saturn.cs.swin.OZ.AU (Alan Christiansen) writes:\n>I believe that the algorithms you can get that will only draw convex\n>polygons can be much more efficient than those that can draw\n>concave / self intersecting polygons. \n>This efficiency can largely be attributed to the fact that \n>simple convex polygons only have a left and a right edge on each scan line.\n>Complex (figure 8 type polygons) can be a bit trickier.\n\nIt is true the convex algorithm is faster than a general concave/multi outline\nalgorithm, but not tremendously faster. I spent awhile implementing and\noptimizing both flavors, and the convex turned out about 10% faster. This is\nall C (on HP PA-RISC the compiler got the inner loop [shooting the span] as\nfast as possible, as far as I could tell). For any sort of game the database\nto render is known ahead of time, and can be made all convex. Definitely the\nway to go.\n\np.s. sorry but my code CANNOT be made public domain....\n\tjesse\n-- \nJesse Lackey ** 3D/Eye, Inc., Ithaca NY ** jesse@eye.com ** (607) 257-1381\n',
"From: aaron@minster.york.ac.uk\nSubject: Re: Gulf War (was Re: Death Penalty was Re: Political Atheists?)\nDistribution: world\nOrganization: Department of Computer Science, University of York, England\nLines: 36\n\nMark McCullough (mccullou@snake12.cs.wisc.edu) wrote:\n\t[...details of US built chemical plant at Al Alteer near Baghdad...]\n: However, the plant's intended use was to aid the Iraqi infrastructure.\n: It is not an example of selling a weapon. May sound nitpicking,\n: but are we going to refuse to sell valuable parts that build the\n: infrastructure because of dual use technology? \n\n\tI am contending that in this case (and in the case of the sale\nof pesticides by UK companies) that they knew full well that it was to \nbe used for the production of chemical weapons even if that was not its\nofficially stated purpose.\n\n: I personally don't think that letting Iran conquer Iraq would have been a \n: good thing. \n\n\tFor that matter, neither do I (for the reasons you state). It is the \nhypocrisy and claims the US did not help Iraq that make me angry, plus the\nfact that the USA seems to believe it has the *right* to interfere where\nis sees fit (i.e. has an interest) rather than a *duty* to intervene where\nit is required. This is demonstrated by the failure of the US to do anything\nabout East Timor (and the region *is* becoming destabilised). The USA might\nhave done something approaching the right thing, given my reservations about\nthe uncessary number of civillian casualites, but for wholly the wrong reasons\nand after having a hand in creating the situation.\n\n: That in no way would affect the US later military action against Iraq.\n\n\tI did not suggest it would and it would be ridiculous to assert\notherwise. I was simply indicating the USA has previously aided Iraq.\n\n: Intel on manufacturing techniques, or something of that nature? \n\n\tNo, apparently data (orginally from satellites although I doubt\nthat Iraq would have been given the raw data) concerning troop concentrations.\n\n\t\tAaron Turner\taaron@minster.york.ac.uk\n",
'From: revdak@netcom.com (D. Andrew Kille)\nSubject: Re: Question about Virgin Mary\nOrganization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)\nLines: 39\n\nD. Andrew Byler (db7n+@andrew.cmu.edu) wrote:\n: However greatly we extoll Mary, it is quite obvious that she is in no\n: way God or even part of God or equal to God. The Assumption of our\n: Blessed Mother, meant that because of her close identification with the\n: redemptive work of Christ, she was Assumed (note that she did not\n: ASCEND) body and soul into Heaven, and is thus one of the few, along\n: with Elijah, Enoch, Moses (maybe????) who are already perfected in\n: Heaven. Obviously, the Virgin Mary is far superior in glorification to\n: any of the previously mentioned personages.\n\n\nAs I said, it is a provocative thought.\n\nFrom "Answer to Job":\n\n\tThe logical consistency of the papal declaration cannot be surpassed\n\tand it leaves Protestantism with the odium of being nothing but a\n\t_man\'s religion_ which allows no metaphysical representation of woman.\n\t...Protestantism has obviously not given sufficient attention to the\n\tsigns of the times which point to the equality of women. But this\n\tequality requires to be metaphysically anchored in the figure of a\n\t"divine" woman, the bride of Christ. Just as the person of Christ\n\tcannot be replaced by an organization, so the bride cannot be re-\n\tplaced by the Church. The feminine, like the masculine, demands an\n\tequally personal representation.\n\t\tThe dogmatizing of the Assumption does not, however, according\n\tto the dogmatic view, mean that Mary has attained the status of a\n\tgoddess, although, as mistress of heaven...and mediatrix, she is \n\tfunctionally on a par with Christ, the king and mediator. At any\n\trate, her position satisfies the need of the archetype. [par. 753-4]\n\n\n: Jung should stick to Psychology rather than getting into Theology.\n\nJung made it clear that he was talking about psychology, not theology. His\ncomments had to do with the psychological _image_ of God and its function\nin the human psyche, not about the actual existence or nature of God.\n\nrevdak@netcom.com\n',
'From: gt7122b@prism.gatech.edu (Randal Lee Nicholas Mandock)\nSubject: Re: Question about Virgin Mary\nOrganization: Georgia Institute of Technology\nLines: 16\n\nIn article <May.6.00.34.46.1993.15415@geneva.rutgers.edu>\n news@cbnewsk.att.com writes:\n>Basically the teaching on infallibility\n>holds that the pope is infallible in matters of faith and doctrine, the\n>college of bishops is likewise infallible, and the laity is as well.\n\nNot exactly correct, but nice try. The Catholic doctrine of infallibility\nrefers to freedom from error in teaching of the universal Church in \nmatters of faith or MORALS. It is this teaching which is taken as \ndoctrine. \n\n\n-- \nRandal Lee Nicholas Mandock \nCatechist\ngt7122b@prism.gatech.edu \n',
'From: nichael@bbn.com (Nichael Cramer)\nSubject: Re: Variants in the NT Text (cont.)\nReply-To: ncramer@bbn.com\nOrganization: BBN, Interzone Office\nLines: 75\n\nFrom: db7n+@andrew.cmu.edu (D. Andrew Byler)\n>Does anyone now where an English translation of the long recension of\n>the Acts of the Apostles can be found?\n\n1] An english translation of this can be found in:\n "The Acts of the Apostles, translated from the Codex Bezae, with an\n introduction on its Lucan Origin and Importance", J. M. Wilson\n (London, 1923).\n\n2] Another work that might be useful is:\n "The Acts of the Apostles, a Critical Edition with Introduction and\n Notes on Selected Passages", Albert C. Clark (Oxford, 1933;\n reprinted 1970).\n\n(This is an edition of text of Acts that makes the assumption that the\ntext in Codex Bezae is the more authentic. I don\'t know if it\nactually contains an english translation or not.)\n\n3] Another useful that discusses many of the variants in detail is:\n "The Theological Tendency of the Codex Bezae Cantabrigiensis in\n Acts", Eldon J Epp (Cambridge, 1966).\n\n4] The most recent reference I found was an edition in French from the\nearly \'80s. (I can supply the reference if anyone\'s interested.)\n\n5] Now, many of the works are going to be difficult to find. So if\nyou\'re interested in examining the differences in the long recension\nan excellent (and easily obtainable) discussion can be found in:\n "A Textual Commentary on the Greek NT", Bruce Metzger (United Bible\n Society, 1971).\n\nMetzger\'s book serves as a companion volume to the UBS 3rd edition of\nthe Greek NT. It contains a discussion on the reasoning that went\nbehind the decisions on each of the 1440 variant readings included in\nthe UBS3. Furthermore, notes on an addition 600 readings are\nincluded in aTCotGNT (the majority of these occur in Acts).\n\nIn particular in the introduction to the section on Acts Metzger writes:\n "[An attempt was made] to set before the reader a more or less full\n report (with an English translation) of the several additions and\n other modifications that are attested by Western witnesses ...\n Since many of these have no corresponding apparatus in the\n text-volume, care was taken to supply an adequate conspectus of the\n evidence that supports the divergent readings." (p 272).\n\n>I understand that one of the early codexes, Vaticanus and Siniaticus has\n>this version of Acts. It would be interesting to know what the\n>differences are between the long and the short forms.\n\n6] Most of the copies of the text of Acts that we have (including the\nones in Vaticanus and Siniaticus) adher pretty closely to the shorter\n(or Alexandrian) version. The longer version to which you refer is\nusually called the "Western" version and its main witness is the Codex\nBezae (althought there are a few other rather fragmentary sources).\n\n7] As far as size, the difference is that in Clark\'s edition\n(mentioned above) the book of Acts contains 19,983 words whereas the\ntext edited by Westcott and Hort (a typical Alexandrian text) contains\n18,401 words; i.e. a difference of about 8-1/2%.\n\n8] To answer the obvious questions, no, there are no major revelations\nin the longer text nor major omissions in the shorter text. The main\ndifference seems to "expansion" of detail in the Western text (or, if\nyou prefer "contractions" in the Alexandrian). The Western text seems\nto be given to more detail. There are some interesting specific\ncases, but this probably not the place to go into it in detail.\n\n9] The discussion over the years as to which of these versions is the\nmore authentic has been hot and heavy. If there is anything\napproaching a modern consensus it is (i) that neither text represents\npurely the "authentic" version, (ii) each variant reading has to be\nexamined on its own merits however, (iii) the variant in the\nAlexandrian text is the "better" more often than not.\n\nN\n',
"From: dwilmot@zen.holonet.net (Dick Wilmot)\nSubject: Re: Products to handle HDTV moving pircture (180MB/sec)\nNntp-Posting-Host: zen.holonet.net\nOrganization: HoloNet National Internet Access System: 510-704-1058/modem\nLines: 48\n\nkazsato@twics.co.jp writes:\n\n\n>Hi,\n\n>I'd like to know if there is any system (CPU + HD array + framebuffer)\n>which can play and record HDTV quality moving picture in realtime.\n\n>HDTV has about 6MB/frame, so recording/playing moving picture will need\n>about 180MB/sec bandwidth. I'm thinking to treat the raw data.. not\n>compressed. \n\nFinding a disk array that can do 180MB/sec. will be difficult. The fastest\nones I know about are from Maximum Strategy (IBM also sells these). They\ncan attach HiPPI at up to 144 MB/sec. (64 bit). For these kinds of data\nrates you need more than SCSI for connections. Their latest model, the\nRAID 5 model Gen 4 only does 90 MB/sec. but I think this may be a\nlimitation only of the HiPPI channel and that customer needs have not\nexceeded that speed since their older model was faster. They are also not\nidle (must be working on newer products that might be faster) and are a\nsmall company so you might be able to ask about custom interfaces. They\nstill marketed the older, faster model as of a few mongths ago.\n\nMaximum Strategy, Inc.\n801 Buckeye Court\nMilpitas, CA 95035-7408\nsales@maxstrat.com\n\nYou might still want to look into compression as it will be very difficult\nto keep the HiPPI bus fully working at all times - sustained throughput\nmight come close to maximum burst rate.\n\nInteresting problem. Tell us more if you can?\n\n>If anyone can advise me what kind of product I should look into, please\n>e-mail me. I will appriciate it. The vendor's e-mail address, price of\n>the products, actual performance data of the products, any info will \n>help me.\n\n>Thanks in advance,\n\n>Kaz Sato, Tokyo, Japan\n>e-mail: kazsato@twics.co.jp\n-- \n Dick Wilmot\n Editor, Independent RAID Report\n (510) 938-7425\n\n",
'From: aidler@sol.uvic.ca (E Alan Idler)\nSubject: Re: The doctrine of Original Sin\nOrganization: University of Victoria\nLines: 49\n\nmuddmj@wkuvx1.bitnet writes:\n\n>> But, haven\'t "all sinned, and come short of the glory\n>> of God" (Romans 3:23)?\n>> Those that cite this scripture to claim that even\n>> babes require baptism neglect that "sin is not imputed\n>> when there is no law" (Romans 5:13).\n>>\n>> Therefore, until someone is capable of comprehending\n>> God\'s laws they are not accountable for living them.\n>> They are in the book of life and are not removed until\n>> they can make a conscious decision to disobey God.\n>>\n>> A IDLER\n\n>If babies are not supposed to be baptised then why doesn\'t the Bible\n>ever say so. It never comes right and says "Only people that know\n>right from wrong or who are taught can be baptised."\n> What Christ did say was :\n\n> "I solemly assure you, NO ONE can enter God\'s kingdom without\n> being born of water and Spirit ... Do not be surprised that I\n> tell you you must ALL be begotten from above."\n\n>Could this be because everyone is born with original sin?\n\n(I presume you are quoting John 3:3-7.)\n\n1. My King James Bible says "Except a man be born of water \nand of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God" \n(John 3:5). (Here "man" == "adult").\n(However, this could be a quibble between translations.)\n\n2. We can also analyze to whom the Lord is addressing:\n"Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again"\n(John 3:7). Here Jesus is clearly directing his remarks\nto Nicodemus -- a ruler of the Jews (not a child).\n\n3. We can ask ourselves why the Lord would even \nintroduce the concept of spiritual re-birth through\nbaptism if newborn babies weren\'t free from sin?\n\nA IDLER\n\n[Yup, in John 3:5 "man" is not in the original. A better translation\nis "no one can enter...", as in NRSV. Of course in 3:7, Jesus is\naddressing the person who came to him. There are other places in the\nNT where he deals with children. They\'ve been mentioned in other\npostings. --clh]\n',
"From: menchett@dws012.unr.edu (Peter J Menchetti)\nSubject: A graphic design newsgroup???\nOrganization: University of Nevada, Reno Department of Computer Science\nLines: 3\n\nWhich newsgroup discusses graphic design on PCs and macs?\n\nY'know like with Corel Draw??\n",
'From: collopy@leland.Stanford.EDU (Paul Dennis Collopy)\nSubject: re: antidepressants\nOrganization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA\nLines: 14\n\nWithout restating the thread going here.....\n\nZoloft is a stimulating antidepressant.\n\nIt is unfortunate that antidepressant therapy is trial and error, but\nif it is any help, there are a lot of people using the side effects of\nthe many medications to help manage other conditions.\n\nHang in there, maybe someday a "brain chemistry set" will be available\nand all the serotonin questions will have answers.\n\nPlease, no flames........I have enough to deal with :)\n\n\n',
"From: bil@okcforum.osrhe.edu (Bill Conner)\nSubject: Re: free moral agency\nNntp-Posting-Host: okcforum.osrhe.edu\nOrganization: Okcforum Unix Users Group\nX-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL9]\nDistribution: na\nLines: 40\n\ndean.kaflowitz (decay@cbnewsj.cb.att.com) wrote:\n: > \n: > I think you're letting atheist mythology\n\n: Great start. I realize immediately that you are not interested\n: in discussion and are going to thump your babble at me. I would\n: much prefer an answer from Ms Healy, who seems to have a\n: reasonable and reasoned approach to things. Say, aren't you the\n: creationist guy who made a lot of silly statements about\n: evolution some time ago?\n\n: Duh, gee, then we must be talking Christian mythology now. I\n: was hoping to discuss something with a reasonable, logical\n: person, but all you seem to have for your side is a repetition\n: of the same boring mythology I've seen a thousand times before.\n: I am deleting the rest of your remarks, unless I spot something\n: that approaches an answer, because they are merely a repetition\n: of some uninteresting doctrine or other and contain no thought\n: at all.\n\n: I have to congratulate you, though, Bill. You wouldn't\n: know a logical argument if it bit you on the balls. Such\n: a persistent lack of function in the face of repeated\n: attempts to assist you in learning (which I have seen\n: in this forum and others in the past) speaks of a talent\n: that goes well beyond my own, meager abilities. I just don't\n: seem to have that capacity for ignoring outside influences.\n\n: Dean Kaflowitz\n\nDean,\n\nRe-read your comments, do you think that merely characterizing an\nargument is the same as refuting it? Do you think that ad hominum\nattacks are sufficient to make any point other than you disapproval of\nme? Do you have any contribution to make at all?\n\nBill\n\n\n",
'From: nyeda@cnsvax.uwec.edu (David Nye)\nSubject: Re: What\'s a shit shoveler to do? (was Re: Amusing atheists and)\nOrganization: University of Wisconsin Eau Claire\nLines: 15\n\n[reply to jimh@carson.u.washington.edu (James Hogan)]\n \n>So, what\'s someone with a prediliction to shit-shoveling to do when the\n>latest "I know what you atheists are about" arrival on a.a. shows up?\n>Ignore the Bills, Bobbys, Bakes? Try to engage in reasonable discourse?\n>While flame-fests have been among some of the most entertaining threads\n>here, other tugs-of-war with folks like Bobby have grown old before\n>their time.\n \nI take the view that they are here for our entertainment. When they are\nno longer entertaining, into the kill file they go.\n \nDavid Nye (nyeda@cnsvax.uwec.edu). Midelfort Clinic, Eau Claire WI\nThis is patently absurd; but whoever wishes to become a philosopher\nmust learn not to be frightened by absurdities. -- Bertrand Russell\n',
'From: oser@fermi.wustl.edu (Scott Oser)\nSubject: Re: Studies on Book of Mormon\nOrganization: Washington University Astrophysics\nLines: 5\nDistribution: world\nNNTP-Posting-Host: fermi.wustl.edu\n\nI think that _The_Transcedental_Temptation_, by Paul Kurtz, has a good\nsection on the origins of Mormonism you might want to look at.\n\n-Scott O.\n\n',
"From: sdl@linus.mitre.org (Steven D. Litvintchouk)\nSubject: Re: Nose Picking\nIn-Reply-To: stephen@mont.cs.missouri.edu's message of 1 May 93 03:59:59 GMT\nNntp-Posting-Host: rigel.mitre.org\nOrganization: The MITRE Corporation, Bedford, MA\nLines: 21\n\n\nIn article <stephen.736228799@mont> stephen@mont.cs.missouri.edu (Stephen Montgomery-Smith) writes:\n\n> 1) Does it cause the body any harm if one picks one's nose? For example,\n> might it lead to a loss of ability to smell?\n\nIt may be a good way to catch a cold. It's easy to pick up cold\nviruses on your fingers, either from touching a contaminated surface,\nor by shaking hands with someone that has a cold. Then putting your\nfingers in your nose will transfer the viruses to your nose.\n\n\n--\nSteven Litvintchouk\nMITRE Corporation\n202 Burlington Road\nBedford, MA 01730-1420\n\nFone: (617)271-7753\nARPA: sdl@mitre.org\nUUCP: linus!sdl\n",
'From: doyle+@pitt.edu (Howard R Doyle)\nSubject: Re: What\'s the origin of "STAT?"\nOrganization: Pittsburgh Transplant Institute\nLines: 16\n\nIn article <1993Apr28.100131.157926@zeus.calpoly.edu> dfield@flute.calpoly.edu (InfoSpunj (Dan Field)) writes:\n>The term "stat" is used not only in medicine, but is a commonly used\n>indicator that something is urgent. \n>\n>Does anyone know where it came from? My dictionary was not helpful.\n>\n>-- \n\n\nFrom the word \'statim\' (Latin, I think), meaning immediately.\n\n\n=========================\n\nHoward Doyle\ndoyle+@pitt.edu\n',
"Organization: Arizona State University\nFrom: <ICBAL@ASUACAD.BITNET>\nSubject: Re: Opinions on Allergy (Hay Fever) shots?\nLines: 22\n\nIn article <1993Apr22.143929.26131@midway.uchicago.edu>,\njacquier@gsbux1.uchicago.edu (Eric Jacquier ) says:\n>\n>From now on it looks like 2 shots per week for\n>6 months followed by 1 shot per month or so. Each shot costs\n>$20. Talking about soaring costs and the Health care system, I would\n>call that a racket. We are not talking about rare Amazonian grasses\n>here, but the garbage which grows behind the doctor's office.\n>Apart from this issue, I was somewhat disappointed to find out\n>that you have to keep getting the shots forever. Is that right?\n>\nYou might look for an allergy doctor in your area who uses sublingual\ndrops instead of shots for treatment. (You are given a small bottle of\nantigens; 3 drops are placed under the tongue for 5 minutes.) My\nallergy to bermuda grass was neutralized this way. Throughout the treatment\nprocess I had to return to the doctor's office every month for re-testing\nand a new bottle of antigens. After the allergy was completely neutralized\na bottle of maintenance antigens lasts me about 4 months (the sublingual\ndrops are then taken 3 times per week), and costs $20. So the cost is\nless than shots and it is more convenient just to take the drops at home.\n\nBruce Long\n",
'From: JEK@cu.nih.gov\nSubject: Re: Atheists and Hell\nLines: 21\n\nOn Sunday 9 May 1993, Kenneth Engel writes (in substance):\n\n We are told that the penalty for sin is an eternity in Hell.\n We are told that Jesus paid the penalty, suffering in our stead.\n But Jesus did not spend an eternity in Hell.\n\nThis objection presupposes the "forensic substitution" theory of the\nAtonement. Not everyone who believes in the Atonement understands it\nin those terms. For an expansion of this statement, send the\nmessages\n GET GEN04 RUFF\n GET GEN05 RUFF\n GET GEN06 RUFF\n GET GEN07 RUFF\n to LISTSERV@ASUACAD.BITNET or to LISTSERV@ASUVM.INRE.ASU.EDU\n\nNote that the character after the "GEN" is a zero. If you want to\nread my opun from the beginning, start with GEN01.\n\n Yours,\n James Kiefer\n',
"From: (Rashid)\nSubject: Re: Yet more Rushdie [Re: ISLAMIC LAW]\nNntp-Posting-Host: nstlm66\nOrganization: NH\nLines: 19\n\nIn article <116171@bu.edu>, jaeger@buphy.bu.edu (Gregg Jaeger) wrote:\n> \nI have already made the clear claim that\n> Khomeini advocates views which are in contradition with the Qur'an\n> and have given my arguments for this. This is something that can be\n> checked by anyone sufficiently interested. Khomeini, being dead,\n> really can't respond, but another poster who supports Khomeini has\n> responded with what is clearly obfuscationist sophistry. This should\n> be quite clear to atheists as they are less susceptible to religionist\n> modes of obfuscationism. \n> \n\nDon't mind my saying this but the best example of obfuscation is to\ncondemn without having even your most basic facts straight. If you\nwant some examples, go back and look at your previous posts, where\nyou manage to get your facts wrong about the fatwa and Khomeini's \nsupposed infallibility.\n\nAs salaam a-laikum\n",
'From: spl@pitstop.ucsd.edu (Steve Lamont)\nSubject: Re: CGM Files\nOrganization: University of Calif., San Diego/Microscopy and Imaging Resource\nLines: 32\nNNTP-Posting-Host: pitstop.ucsd.edu\n\nIn article <MEYER.93May28133222@ibsen.geomatic.no> meyer@geomatic.no (Harald Martens Meyer) writes:\n>The only book I\'ve found on the CGM format, is "CGM and CGI" by D.B.Arnold\n>& P.R.Bono from Springer-Verlag, ISBN 3-540-18950-5. It\'s not the best\n>book I\'ve read though....\n\nWell, there *is* the standards document. From the FAQ:\n\n12) How to order standards documents.\n\nThe American National Standards Institute sells ANSI standards, and also\nISO (international) standards. Their sales office is at 1-212-642-4900,\nmailing address is 1430 Broadway, NY NY 10018. It helps if you have the\ncomplete name and number.\n\nSome useful numbers to know:\n\nCGM (Computer Graphics Metafile) is ISO 8632-4 (1987). GKS (Graphical\nKernel System) is ANSI X3.124-1985. ...\n\n>If you want a viewer, try downloading ralcgm from unix.hensa.ac.uk,\n>/misc/unix/ralcgm/ralcgm.tar.Z\n\nYou might also want to look at gplot from the folks at the Pittsburgh\nSupercomputer Center. Fish around at calpe.psc.edu. It is pretty\nnifty.\n\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\tspl\n-- \nSteve Lamont, SciViGuy -- (619) 534-7968 -- spl@szechuan.ucsd.edu\nSan Diego Microscopy and Imaging Resource/UC San Diego/La Jolla, CA 92093-0608\n"A naked lunch is natural to us,/we eat reality sandwiches.\nBut allegories are so much lettuce./Don\'t hide the madness." -Allen Ginsberg\n',
"From: markp@elvis.wri.com (Mark Pundurs)\nSubject: Re: After 2000 years, can we say that Christian Morality is\nNntp-Posting-Host: elvis.wri.com\nOrganization: Wolfram Research, Inc.\nLines: 26\n\nIn <sandvik-250493163828@sandvik-kent.apple.com> sandvik@newton.apple.com (Kent Sandvik) writes:\n\n>In article <markp.735580401@avignon>, markp@avignon (Mark Pundurs) wrote:\n>> You take LSD, and it skews your perception of reality. You come down,\n>> and your perceptions unskew.\n\n>I've never taken LSD, but read about the strange lifes and times\n>of the Ashbury Heights culture. Something that was usually profound\n>was the way these LSD trippers mentioned that after their first trip\n>they changed their view of the world. In other words taking LSD would \n>change their reference frames. Which would indicate that deep changes\n>due to let us say rewiring of the brain temporarily will indeed\n>change frames. And this leads to the statement that there is no\n>solid reference frame; the LSD trippers modified their relative \n>view.\n\nMuch of the Haight-Ashbury crowd probably had pre-existing \ndissatisfactions with their lives -- dissatisfactions ameliorated by\nmumbo-jumbo about 'new realities'. The only change I experienced after \nLSD was to gain the knowledge that I didn't enjoy how LSD twisted my\nperception.\n--\nMark Pundurs\n\nany resemblance between my opinions and those \nof Wolfram Research, Inc. is purely coincidental\n",
"From: n3022@cray.com (Jim Knoll)\nSubject: Patti Duke's Problem\nLines: 6\nNntp-Posting-Host: mahogany30\nReply-To: n3022@cray.com\nOrganization: Cray Research, Inc.\n\nDoes anyone have information about the struggles that Patti\nDuke went through in her personal life with severe mood swings.\nDid she have some form of chemical imbalance that triggered\nthese problems? I recall that she wrote a book about her troubles.\nDoes someone have the title of that book?\n\n",
"From: brian@ccnext.ucsf.edu (Brian Huddleston)\nSubject: 3d IMages\nOrganization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway\nLines: 9\nNNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu\n\nCan anyone around here point me to information regarding STEREOSCOPIC images?\nI believe I saw some at a show room in Texas (Lone Star Illusions) and \nthey were amazing. I've now heard that they were created with a simple \ngraphic program. Does anyone have any of these images digitized?? \nI really want to find a out as much as I can..\n\n\t\t\t\t\tThanks..\t\n\t\t\t\t\tbrian@ccnext.ucsf.edu\n\t\t\t\t\t(please reply to this address)\n",
'From: danj@welchgate.welch.jhu.edu (Dan Jacobson)\nSubject: Re: Is there an FTP achive for USGS terrain data\nOrganization: Johns Hopkins Univ. Welch Medical Library\nLines: 370\n\nIn article <C6DJ25.6wL@cs.columbia.edu> olasov@cs.columbia.edu (Benjamin Olasov) writes:\n>In article <1993Apr24.220701.26139@welchgate.welch.jhu.edu> danj@welchgate.welch.jhu.edu (Dan Jacobson) writes:\n>\n>[A lot of interesting stuff about gopher - deleted]\n>\n>>If you\'ve never heard of gopher don\'t worry it\'s free and on the net,\n>>write me a note if you\'d like information on how to get started.\n>>\n>>\n>>Best of luck,\n>>\n>>Dan Jacobson\n>>\n>>danj@welchgate.welch.jhu.edu\n>\n>\n>I\'ve heard of it but lost the intro posting that came out a while back -\n>could you post it again? I think it\'s of general interest.\n>\n>\n>Ben\n>-- \n>Ben Olasov\t\tolasov@cs.columbia.edu\n\n\n\nThis is a heavily edited/modified version of the Gopher FAQ intended to\ngive people just starting with gopher enough information to get a\nclient and jump into Gopher-space - a complete version can be obtained\nas described below. Once you have a gopher client point it at \nmerlot.welch.jhu.edu and welcome to gopher-space!\n\n\nDan Jacobson\n\ndanj@welchgate.welch.jhu.edu\n\n-----\n\nCommon Questions and Answers about the Internet Gopher, a\nclient/server protocol for making a world wide information service,\nwith many implementations. Posted to comp.infosystems.gopher, \ncomp.answers, and news.answers every two weeks.\n\nThe most recent version of this FAQ can be gotten through gopher, or\nvia anonymous ftp:\n\nrtfm.mit.edu:/pub/usenet/news.answers/gopher-faq\n\nThose without FTP access should send e-mail to mail-server@rtfm.mit.edu\nwith "send usenet/news.answers/finding-sources" in the body to find out\nhow to do FTP by e-mail.\n\n------------------------------------------------------------------- \nList of questions in the Gopher FAQ:\n\nQ0: What is Gopher?\nQ1: Where can I get Gopher software?\nQ2: What do I need to access Gopher?\nQ3: Where are there publicly available logins for Gopher?\nQ4: Who Develops Gopher Software?\nQ5: What is the relationship between Gopher and (WAIS, WWW, ftp)?\nQ6: Are papers or articles describing Gopher available?\nQ7: What is veronica?\nQ8: What is Available for Biology?\n-------------------------------------------------------------------\nQ0: What is Gopher?\n\nA0: The Internet Gopher client/server provides a distributed\n information delivery system around which a world/campus-wide\n information system (CWIS) can readily be constructed. While\n providing a delivery vehicle for local information, Gopher\n facilitates access to other Gopher and information servers\n throughout the world. \n\n-------------------------------------------------------------------\nQ1: Where can I get Gopher software?\n\nA1: via anonymous ftp to boombox.micro.umn.edu. Look in the directory\n /pub/gopher\n\n--------------------------------------------------------------------\nQ2: What do I need to access Gopher?\n\nA2: You will need a gopher "client" program that runs on your local PC\n or workstation\n\n There are clients for the following systems. The directory\n following the name is the location of the client on the anonymous\n ftp site boombox.micro.umn.edu (134.84.132.2) in the directory\n /pub/gopher.\n\n Unix Curses & Emacs : /pub/gopher/Unix/gopher1.12.tar.Z\n Xwindows (athena) : /pub/gopher/Unix/xgopher1.2.tar.Z\n Xwindows (Motif) : /pub/gopher/Unix/moog\n Xwindows (Xview) : /pub/gopher/Unix/xvgopher\n Macintosh Hypercard : /pub/gopher/Macintosh-TurboGopher/old-versions *\n Macintosh Application : /pub/gopher/Macintosh-TurboGopher *\n DOS w/Clarkson Driver : /pub/gopher/PC_client/\n NeXTstep : /pub/gopher/NeXT/\n VM/CMS : /pub/gopher/Rice_CMS/ or /pub/gopher/VieGOPHER/\n VMS : /pub/gopher/VMS/\n OS/2 2.0\t : /pub/gopher/os2/\n MVS/XA : /pub/gopher/mvs/\n\n Many other clients and servers have been developed by others, the\n following is an attempt at a comprehensive list. \n\n A Microsoft Windows Winsock client "The Gopher Book"\n sunsite.unc.edu:/pub/micro/pc-stuff/ms-windows/winsock/goph_tbk.zip\n\n A Macintosh Application, "MacGopher".\n ftp.cc.utah.edu:/pub/gopher/Macintosh *\n\n Another Macintosh application, "GopherApp".\n ftp.bio.indiana.edu:/util/gopher/gopherapp *\n\n A port of the UNIX curses client for DOS with PC/TCP\n oac.hsc.uth.tmc.edu:/public/dos/misc/dosgopher.exe\n\n A port of the UNIX curses client for PC-NFS\n \t bcm.tmc.edu:/nfs/gopher.exe\n\n A beta version of the PC Gopher client for Novell\'s LAN Workplace\n for DOS\n lennon.itn.med.umich.edu:/dos/gopher\n\n A VMS DECwindows client for use with Wollongong or UCX\n job.acs.ohio-state.edu:XGOPHER_CLIENT.SHARE\n\n\n * Note: these Macintosh clients require MacTCP.\n\n Most of the above clients can also be fetched via a gopher client\n itself. Put the following on a gopher server:\n\n Type=1\n Host=boombox.micro.umn.edu\n Port=70\n Path=\n Name=Gopher Software Distribution.\n\n \n Or point your gopher client at boombox.micro.umn.edu, port 70 and\n look in the gopher directory.\n\n\n There are also a number of public telnet login sites available.\n The University of Minnesota operates one on the machine\n "consultant.micro.umn.edu" (134.84.132.4) See Q3 for more\n information about this. It is recommended that you run the client\n software instead of logging into the public telnet login sites. A\n client uses the custom features of the local machine (mouse,\n scroll bars, etc.) A local client is also faster.\n\n---------------------------------------------------------------------\nQ3: Where are there publicly available logins (ie places to telnet to\n in order to get a taste of gopher) for Gopher?\n\nA3: Here is a short list, use the site closest to you to minimize\n network lag.\n\n Telnet Public Logins:\n\n Hostname IP# Login Area\n ------------------------- --------------- ------ -------------\n consultant.micro.umn.edu 134.84.132.4\tgopher North America\n gopher.uiuc.edu 128.174.33.160 gopher North America\n panda.uiowa.edu 128.255.40.201\tpanda North America\n gopher.sunet.se 192.36.125.2 gopher Europe\n info.anu.edu.au 150.203.84.20 info Australia\n gopher.chalmers.se 129.16.221.40 gopher Sweden\n tolten.puc.cl 146.155.1.16 gopher South America\n ecnet.ec\t\t 157.100.45.2 gopher Ecuador\n gan.ncc.go.jp 160.190.10.1 gopher Japan\n\n\n It is recommended that you run the client software instead of\n logging into the public login sites. A client uses the\n custom features of the local machine (mouse, scroll bars, etc.)\n and gives faster response. Furthermore many of the basic features\n of clients - saving a file to your hard drive, printing a file\n to a local printer, viewing images, retrieving files from ftp\n sites etc.... are not available by the telnet logins.\n\n\n\n---------------------------------------------------------------------\nQ4: Who Develops Gopher Software?\n\nA4: Gopher was originally developed in April 1991 by the University\n of Minnesota Microcomputer, Workstation, Networks Center to help\n our campus find answers to their computer questions. \n\n It has since grown into a full-fledged World Wide Information\n System used by a large number of sites in the world.\n\n Many people have contributed to the project, too numerous to\n count. \n\n The people behind the much of the gopher software can be reached\n via e-mail at gopher@boombox.micro.umn.edu, or via paper mail:\n \n Internet Gopher Developers\n 100 Union St. SE #190\n Minneapolis, MN 55455 USA\n\n Or via FAX at:\n \n +1 (612) 625-6817\n\n---------------------------------------------------------------------\nQ5: What is the relationship between Gopher and (WAIS, WWW, ftp)?\n\nA5: Gopher is intimately intertwined with these two other systems.\n As shipped the Unix gopher server has the capability to: \n \n - Search local WAIS indices.\n - Query remote WAIS servers and funnel the results to gopher\n clients.\n - Query remote ftp sites and funnel the results to gopher\n clients.\n - Be queried by WWW (World Wide Web) clients (either using\n built in gopher querying or using native http querying.\n\n-------------------------------------------------------------------\nQ6: Are papers or articles describing Gopher available?\n\nA6: Gopher has a whole chapter devoted to it in :\n\n _The_Whole_Internet_, Ed Kroll, O\'Reilly, 1992 (Editors note:\n ..Great book, go out and buy a bunch!)\n\n _The_Internet_Passport: NorthWestNet\'s Guide to Our World Online"\n By Jonathan Kochmer and NorthWestNet. Published by NorthWestNet,\n Bellevue, WA. 1993. 516 pp. ISBN 0-9635281-0-6. \n Contact info: passport@nwnet.net, or (206) 562-3000\n\n _A_Students_Guide_to_UNIX by Harley Hahn. (publisher McGraw Hill,\n Inc.; 1993 ISBN 0-07-025511-3)\n\n\n Other references include:\n\n _The_Internet_Gopher_, "ConneXions", July 1992, Interop.\n\n _Exploring_Internet_GopherSpace_ "The Internet Society News", v1n2 1992, \n\n (You can subscribe to the Internet Society News by sending e-mail to\n isoc@nri.reston.va.us)\n\n _The_Internet_Gopher_Protocol_, Proceedings of the Twenty-Third\n IETF, CNRI, Section 5.3\n\n _Internet_Gopher_, Proceedings of Canadian Networking \'92\n\n _The_Internet_Gopher_, INTERNET: Getting Started, SRI\n International, Section 10.5.5\n\n _Tools_help_Internet_users_discover_on-line_treasures, Computerworld,\n July 20, 1992\n\n _TCP/IP_Network_Administration_, O\'Reilly.\n\n Balakrishan, B. (Oct 1992)\n "SPIGopher: Making SPIRES databases accessible through the\n Gopher protocol". SPIRES Fall \'92 Workshop, Chapel Hill, North\n Carolina.\n\n Tomer, C. Information Technology Standards for Libraries,\n _Journal of the American Society for Information Science_,\n 43(8):566-570, Sept 1992.\n\n\n-------------------------------------------------------------------\nQ7: What is veronica?\n\nA7: veronica: Very Easy Rodent-Oriented Net-wide Index to \n Computerized Archives.\n\n veronica offers a keyword search of most gopher-server menu titles\n in the entire gopher web. As archie is to ftp archives, veronica \n is to gopherspace. A veronica search produces a menu of gopher\n items, each of which is a direct pointer to a gopher data source.\n Because veronica is accessed through a gopher client, it is easy\n to use, and gives access to all types of data supported by the\n gopher protocol.\n\n To try veronica, select it from the "Other Gophers" menu on \n Minnesota\'s gopher server, or point your gopher at:\n\n Name=veronica (search menu items in most of GopherSpace) \n Type=1 \n Port=70 \n Path=1/veronica \n Host=futique.scs.unr.edu\n\n------------------------------------------------------------------------------\n\nQ8: What is Available for Biology?\n\nA8: There is an incredible amount of software, data and information\n availble to biologists now by gopher.\n\nHere is a brief list of the Biological Databases that you can search \nvia gopher:\n\n 2. BDT Tropical Data Base Searches/\n 3. Biotechnet Buyers Guide - Online Catalogues for Biology <TEL>\n 4. Search Protein Data Bank Headers <?>\n 5. Chlamydomonas Genetics Center /\n 6. Crystallization database/\n 7. HGMP Databases - Probes and Primers /\n 8. Museum of Paleontology TYPE Specimen Index <?>\n 9. MycDB - Mycobacterium DataBase <?>\n 10. Search (Drosophila) Flybase (Indiana)/\n 11. Search (GenBank + SWISS-PROT + PIR + PDB) <?>\n 12. Search AAtDB - An Arabidopsis thaliana Database <?>\n 13. Search ACEDB - A Caenorhabditis elegans Database <?>\n 14. Search CompoundKB - A Metabolic Compound Database <?>\n 15. Search Databases at Welchlab (Vectors, Promoters, NRL-3D, EST, OMI../\n 16. Search EMBL <?>\n 17. Search GenBank <?>\n 18. Search Genbank - 2 <?>\n 19. Search Genbank Updates <?>\n 20. Search LiMB <?>\n 21. Search PIR <?>\n 22. Search PIR (keyword,species...) <?>\n 23. Search PROSITE <?>\n 24. Search Rebase - Restriction Enzyme Database <?>\n 25. Search SWISS-PROT <?>\n 26. Search TFD <?>\n 27. Search the C. elegans Strain List <?>\n 28. Search the DNA Database of Japan <?>\n 29. Search the EC Enzyme Database <?>\n 30. Search the GrainGenes database <?>\n 31. Search the Maize Database /\n 32. Cloning Vectors: plasmids, phage, etc. <?>\n 33. EPD - Eukaryotic Promoter Database <?>\n 34. EST - Expressed Sequence Tag Database - Human <?>\n 35. wEST - Expressed Sequence Tag Database - C. elegans <?>\n 36. Kabat Database of Proteins of Immunological Interest <?>\n 37. NRL_3D Protein Sequence-Structure Database <?>\n 38. OMIM - Online Mendelian Inheritance in Man <?>\n 39. Seqanalref - Sequence Analysis Bibliographic Reference Data Ban.. <?>\n 40. Search Rebase - Restriction Enzyme Database <?>\n 41. Search the EC Enzyme Database <?>\n 42. Search The Rodent Section of Genbank <?>\n 43. Database Taxonomy (Genbank, Swiss-Prot ...)/\n 44. Retrieve Full PDB Entries by Accession Number <?>\n 45. Search for All Researchers funded by NIH <?>\n 46. Search for Genome Researchers funded by DOE <?>\n 47. Search for Researchers funded by NSF <?>\n 48. Search for Researchers funded by the USDA <?>\n 49. E-mail Addresses of Crystallographers/\n 50. E-mail Addresses of Yeast Reasearchers/\n 51. Phonebooks Around the World/\n 52. Search and Retrieve Software for All Computers/\n 53. Search and Retrieve Macintosh Software/\n 54. Search and Retrieve DOS Software/\n 55. Search and Retrieve GNU Software/\n 56. Search and Retrieve Software for Biology/\n 57. Search for Agricultural Software/\n 58. Search and Retrieve Graphics Software and Data/\n 59. Search and Retrieve all Online Perl Scripts/\n 60. FTP Sites For Biology (56 archives for software and data)/\n\n\nAnd the list goes on - this is just the beginning\n\n',
'From: carlson@ab24.larc.nasa.gov (Ann Carlson)\nSubject: Re: FAQ essay on homosexuality\nOrganization: NASA Langley Research Center, Hampton, VA USA\nLines: 20\n\nI have some articles available on the Church and gay people, from\na pro-gay viewpoint, which might interest some of the people \nparticipating in this thread. Please email me if you would like\nto have me send them to you (warning, about 70k worth of material.\nMake sure you have mailbox and/or disk space available.)\n\nThere are no short answers to the questions we\'ve been seeing here\n("how do you explain these verses?", "How do you justify your actions?")\nIf you\'ve been asking and you really want an idea of the other people\'s\nthinking, I encourage you to do some serious reading. \n-- \n\n\n\n************************************************* \n*Dr. Ann B. Carlson (a.b.carlson@larc.nasa.gov) * O .\n*MS 366 * o _///_ //\n*NASA Langley Research Center * <`)= _<<\n*Hampton, VA 23681-0001 * \\\\\\ \\\\\n*************************************************\n',
'From: PETCH@gvg47.gvg.tek.com (Chuck)\nSubject: Daily Verse\nLines: 5\n\n\n Now that you have purified yourselves by obeying the truth so that you have\nsincere love for your brothers, love one another deeply, from the heart.\n\nIPeter 1:22\n',
'From: cobb@alexia.lis.uiuc.edu (Mike Cobb)\nSubject: Science and theories\nOrganization: University of Illinois at Urbana\nLines: 19\n\nAs per various threads on science and creationism, I\'ve started dabbling into a\nbook called Christianity and the Nature of Science by JP Moreland. A question\nthat I had come from one of his comments. He stated that God is not \nnecessarily a religious term, but could be used as other scientific terms that\ngive explanation for events or theories, without being a proven scientific \nfact. I think I got his point -- I can quote the section if I\'m being vague. \nThe examples he gave were quarks and continental plates. Are there \nexplanations of science or parts of theories that are not measurable in and of\nthemselves, or can everything be quantified, measured, tested, etc.? \n\nMAC\n--\n****************************************************************\n Michael A. Cobb\n "...and I won\'t raise taxes on the middle University of Illinois\n class to pay for my programs." Champaign-Urbana\n -Bill Clinton 3rd Debate cobb@alexia.lis.uiuc.edu\n \nNobody can explain everything to anybody. G.K.Chesterton\n',
'From: sjha+@cs.cmu.edu (Somesh Jha)\nSubject: What is intersection syndrome and Feldene?\nNntp-Posting-Host: gs73.sp.cs.cmu.edu\nOrganization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon\nLines: 17\n\n\nHi:\n\nI went to the orthopedist on Tuesday. He diagnosed me as having\n"intersection syndrome". He prescribed Feldene for me. I want\nto know more about the disease and the drug.\n\nThanks\n\n\nSomesh\n\n\n\n\n\n\n',
"From: livesey@solntze.wpd.sgi.com (Jon Livesey)\nSubject: Re: Genocide is Caused by Atheism\nOrganization: sgi\nLines: 27\nDistribution: world\nNNTP-Posting-Host: solntze.wpd.sgi.com\n\nIn article <1993Apr19.112008.26198@monu6.cc.monash.edu.au>, darice@yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au (Fred Rice) writes:\n|> In <1qi3fc$jkj@fido.asd.sgi.com> livesey@solntze.wpd.sgi.com (Jon Livesey) writes:\n|> \n|> >In article <1993Apr14.110209.7703@monu6.cc.monash.edu.au>, darice@yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au (Fred Rice) writes:\n|> >>\n|> >> Some here on alt.atheism think that by condemning the actions \n|> >> of some of those who call themselves Muslims, they are condemning \n|> >> Islam.\n|> \n|> >Do you read minds, Mr Rice? You know what posters think now,\n|> >not just what they write?\n|> \n|> >For myself, I only have what people are posting here to go on,\n|> >and that's what I am commenting on.\n|> \n|> I think you may have misunderstood me.\n|> \n|> I mean that one does not really criticize _Islam_ necessarily by\n|> bringing Khomeini etc. into the argument, for whether he is or is not\n|> following Islam has to be determined by examining his actions against\n|> Islamic teachings. Islamic teachings are contained in the Qur'an and\n|> hadiths (reported sayings and doings of the Prophet).\n\nThat's funny, I thought you were making a statement about what\npeople think. In fact, I see it quoted up there.\n\njon.\n",
"From: eczcaw@mips.nott.ac.uk (A.Wainwright)\nSubject: Re: Death Penalty (was Re: Political Atheists?)\nReply-To: eczcaw@mips.nott.ac.uk (A.Wainwright)\nOrganization: Nottingham University\nLines: 60\n\nIn article <C5rLyz.4Mt@darkside.osrhe.uoknor.edu>, bil@okcforum.osrhe.edu (Bill Conner) writes:\n|> This is fascinating. Atheists argue for abortion,\n\nProve it. I am an atheist. It doesn't mean I am for or against abortion.\n\n|> defend homosexuality\n|> as a means of population control, \n\nAn obvious effect of homosexuality is non-procreation. That, unlike your\nstatement, is a fact. Please prove that (a) homosexuality is defended as \nmeans of population control, (b) being atheist causes you to hold these\nbeliefs. I defend homosexuality because (a) what people do with their\nbodies is none of my business (b) I defend the equal rights of\nall humans. Do you?\n\n|> insist that the only values are\n|> biological \n\nDefine values. Prove your statement.\n\n|> something is contardictory, it cannot exist, which in\n|> this case means atheists I suppose.\n\nProve your statement. Electrons are waves. Electrons are particles. I \nbelieve in both. I have physical proof of both. I have no proof of god(tm)\nonly an ancient book. That is not indicative of the existence of a being\nwith omnipotence or omnipresence. And, by your own argument, christians\ndon't exist.\n\n\n|> I would like to understand how an atheist can object to war (an\n|> excellent means of controlling population growth), or to capital\n|> punishment, I'm sorry but the logic escapes me.\n|> And why just capital punishment, what is being questioned here, the\n|> propriety of killing or of punishment? What is the basis of the\n|> ecomplaint?\n|> \n\nFirst of all, your earlier statements have absolutely nothing to do\nwith your question. Why did you post them? To show that athiests,\nbesides not existing (your view), are more humane than christians/other\nreligions?\n\n\nSecondly I am very much for the control of population growth.\n\nThe logic that you cannot grasp indicates ignorance of contraception.\nBut of course, this is 'outlawed' (sometimes literally) by religion\nsince if it can't create more followers, it will die.\n\nI\n|> Bill\n|> \n\n-- \n+-------------------------+-----------------------------------------------+\n| Adda Wainwright | Does dim atal y llanw! 8o) |\n| eczcaw@mips.nott.ac.uk | 8o) Mae .sig 'ma ar werth! |\n+-------------------------+-----------------------------------------------+\n\n",
'From: orourke@sophia.smith.edu (Joseph O\'Rourke)\nSubject: Re: Looking for polygon "convexifier"\nOrganization: Smith College, Northampton, MA, US\nLines: 10\n\nIn article <1rvpmc$3dd@nwfocus.wa.com> mpdillon@halcyon.com (Michael Dillon) writes:\n>>Does anyone know where I can find a code which would take concave\n>>polygons and break them up into a set of convex polygons?\n>\n>I also would like code or algorithms to do this.\n\n\tAlthough I am not offering code, I would like to point out that\nany polygon triangulation code satisfies the task as stated. If you\nwant code to partition a polygon into the *minimum* number of convex\npieces, I doubt very much if it exists, although an algorithm is known.\n',
"From: kempmp@phoenix.oulu.fi (Petri Pihko)\nSubject: Re: Christian Morality is\nOrganization: University of Oulu, Finland\nX-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL9]\nLines: 107\n\nDan Schaertel,,, (dps@nasa.kodak.com) wrote:\n> In article 21627@ousrvr.oulu.fi, kempmp@phoenix.oulu.fi (Petri Pihko) writes:\n\n> |>I love god just as much as she loves me. If she wants to seduce me,\n> |>she'll know what to do. \n\n> But if He/She did you would probably consider it rape. \n\nOf course not. I would think that would be great _fun_, not having ever\nfelt the joy and peace the Christians speak of with a longing gaze.\nThis is not what I got when I believed - I just tried to hide my fear\nof getting punished for something I never was sure of. The Bible is\nhopelessly confusing for someone who wants to know for sure. God did\nnot answer. In the end, I found I had been following a mass delusion,\na lie. I can't believe in a being who refuses to give a slightest hint\nof her existence.\n\n> Obviously there are many Christians who have tried and do believe. So .. ?\n\nI suggest they should honestly reconsider the reasons why they believe\nand analyse their position. In fact, it is amusing to note in this\ncontext that many fundamentalist publications tell us exactly the\nopposite - one should not examine one's belief critically.\n\nI'll tell you something I left out of my 'testimony' I posted to this\ngroup two months ago. A day after I finally found out my faith is over,\nI decided to try just one more time. The same cycle of emotional\nresponses fired once again, but this time the delusion lasted only\na couple of hours. I told my friend in a phone that it really works,\nthank god, just to think about it again when I hung up. I had to admit\nthat I had lied, and fallen prey to the same illusion.\n\n> No one asks you to swallow everything, in fact Jesus warns against it. But let\n> me ask you a question. Do you beleive what you learn in history class, or for\n> that matter anything in school. I mean it's just what other people have told\n> you and you don't want to swallow what others say. right ... ?\n\nI used to believe what I read in books when I was younger, or what\nother people told me, but I grew more and more skeptical the more I\nread. I learned what it means to use _reason_.\n\nAs a student of chemistry, I had to perform a qualitative analysis\nof a mixture of two organic compounds in the lab. I _hated_ experiments\nlike this - they are old-fashioned and increase the student's workload\nconsiderably. Besides, I had to do it twice, since I failed in my first\nattempt. However, I think I'll never forget the lesson: \n\nNo matter how strongly you believe the structure of the unknown is X,\nit may still be Y. It is _very_ tempting to jump into conclusions, take\na leap of faith, assure oneself, ignore the data which is inconsistent. \nBut it can still be wrong. \n\nI found out that I was, after all, using exactly the same mechanism\nto believe in god - mental self-assurance, suspension of fear, \nfiltering of information. In other words, it was only me, no god\nplaying any part. \n\n> The life , death, and resurection of Christ is documented historical fact.\n\nOh? And I had better believe this? Dan, many UFO stories are much better\ndocumented than the resurrection of Jesus. The resurrection is documented\nquite haphazardly in the Bible - it seems the authors did not pay too\nmuch attention to which wild rumour to leave out. Besides, the ends of\nthe gospels probably contain later additions and insertions; for instance,\nthe end of Mark (16:9-20) is missing from many early texts, says my Bible.\n\nJesus may have lived and died, but he was probably misunderstood.\n\n> As much\n> as anything else you learn. How do you choose what to believe and \n> what not to?\n\nThis is easy. I believe that the world exists independent of my mind,\nand that logic and reason can be used to interpret and analyse what I\nobserve. Nothing else need to be taken on faith, I will go by the\nevidence. \n\nIt makes no difference whether I believe George Washington existed or not.\nI assume that he did, considering the vast amount of evidence presented.\n\n> There is no way to get into a sceptical heart. You can not say you have \n> given a \n> sincere effort with the attitude you seem to have. You must TRUST, \n> not just go \n> to church and participate in it's activities. Were you ever willing to\n> die for what you believed? \n\nA liar, how do you know what my attitude was? Try reading your Bible\nagain. \n\nI was willing to die for my faith. Those who do are usually remembered\nas heroes, at least among those who believe. Dan, do you think I'm\nlying when I say I believed firmly for 15 years? It seems it is \nvery difficult to admit that someone who has really believed does not\ndo so anymore. But I can't go on lying to myself.\n\nBlind trust is dangerous, and I was just another blind led by the blind.\nBut if god really wants me, she'll know what to do. I'm willing. I just\ndon't know whether she exists - looking at the available evidence,\nit looks like she doesn't. \n\nPetri\n--\n ___. .'*''.* Petri Pihko kem-pmp@ Mathematics is the Truth.\n!___.'* '.'*' ' . Pihatie 15 C finou.oulu.fi Physics is the Rule of\n ' *' .* '* SF-90650 OULU kempmp@ the Game.\n *' * .* FINLAND phoenix.oulu.fi -> Chemistry is The Game.\n",
'From: egret@wet.UUCP (thomas helke)\nSubject: How Can I Download Files/Graphics?\nOrganization: Wetware Diversions, San Francisco\nLines: 21\n\nHow can I find these files and graphics that people\nare downloading from their Unix systems? Then, how\ndo I download them? I am a complete beginner in\nthis (obviously), so please baby-step me through\nthe process. First of all, I don\'t see amongst\nthese newsgroups where there is anything remotely\nlike a GIF, TIF, or compiled shareware program?\n\nThanks in advance for any information you can\ngive me. (I know there is a Unix command, "ftp,"\nthat will allow me to do this, but first I\nneed to know where to go to find the file\nI want download via ftp, etc.\n\nThomas Helke\negret@wet.UUCP \n\n//\n::wq!\n/\n\n',
'From: rws2v@uvacs.cs.Virginia.EDU (Richard Stoakley)\nSubject: 3D modelers for UNIX\nKeywords: 3D, three-D, modelers\nOrganization: University of Virginia Computer Science Department\nLines: 7\n\nCould someone please post a list of good three-D modelers that will\nrun on SPARC stations; preferably cheap. Thanks\n\nRichard\nrws2v@virginia.edu\n\n\n',
"From: donrm@sr.hp.com (Don Montgomery)\nSubject: Re: feverfew for migraines\nOrganization: HP Sonoma County (SRSD/MWTD/MID)\nX-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL9.4]\nLines: 12\n\nBrenda Bowden (brenda@bookhouse.Eng.Sun.COM) wrote:\n\n: Does anyone know about these studies? Or have experience with feverfew?\n\nI keep an accurate log of my migraine attack frequency; feverfew didn't\nseem to do anything for me. However, eliminating caffeine seems to pre-\nvent the onset of migraine in my case. In other words, no caffeine, no \nmigraines.\n\nDon Montgomery\ndonrm@sr.hp.com\n\n",
'From: roy@mchip00.med.nyu.edu (Roy Smith)\nSubject: Re: Why does Illustrator AutoTrace so poorly?\nOrganization: New York University, School of Medicine\nLines: 47\nNNTP-Posting-Host: mchip00.med.nyu.edu\n\nmac@utkvx.bitnet (Richard J. McDougald) writes:\n> Since there\'s no (not really) such thing as a decent raster to vector\n> conversion program, this "tracing" technique is about it. Simple stuff,\n> like b&w logos, etc. do pretty well, while more complicated stuff goes\n> haywire.\n\n\tThe first and only thing I\'ve ever tried to auto-trace was a piece\nof a USCG nautical chart using Adobe Illustrator 3.2. I wanted to get the\noutline of the coast for Western Long Island Sound. I was simultaneously\nsuprised at how good a job it did and disappointed at how poorly it did. I\nsuspect what I gave it was a very difficult thing; not only is the coastline\nvery irregular, but overlaid on the chart are numerous sets of gridlines\n(not only lattitude and longitude, but loran grids as well). The most\ncommon mistake it make was whenever the coastline was roughly parallel and\ntangent to a grid line, it would take off following the gridline instead of\nthe coast. I think the best improvement would be some sort of interactive\nalgorithm that would let you step in and say "no, dummy, you\'re going the\nwrong way".\n\n\tSteve Reisberg, a friend of mine a few years back(*), did his\ndoctoral work analysing electron micrographs of filimentous phage (virii).\nA good chunk of the work was writing a program to take a digitized\nmicrograph and automatically trace the centerline of the virus particles.\nThis is essentially the same problem that Illustrator tries to solve with\nits auto-trace tool.\n\n\tIn some respects the problem Steve worked on was harder, since he\nwas trying to do quantitative analysis of the virus structure and finding a\ngood centerline was only the first step, but a step on which all future\nanalysis depended. However, in other respects, it was an easier problem\nsince the program could be written with a lot of knowledge about what the\nvirus particles were supposed to look like, and the analysis could be\nrestricted to those particles which happend to be relatively straight,\nclean, and well imaged; you don\'t always have that freedom auto-tracing real\nlife images. In any case, it gave me some insight into just how difficult\nthis problem is to solve in the general case.\n\n\t(*) Steve is no longer with us. He and his wife disappeared while\non vacation in Hawaii a couple of years after they graduated. Their last\nknown location was hiking in a densely wooded in a mountainous area. While no\nbodies were ever found, they are presumed to have been the victim of some\nsort of fall or accident in the woods.\n-- \nRoy Smith <roy@nyu.edu>\nHippocrates Project, Department of Microbiology, Coles 202\nNYU School of Medicine, 550 First Avenue, New York, NY 10016\n"This never happened to Bart Simpson."\n',
'From: MANDTBACKA@FINABO.ABO.FI (Mats Andtbacka)\nSubject: Re: After 2000 years, can we say that Christian Morality is\nIn-Reply-To: frank@D012S658.uucp\'s message of 21 Apr 1993 09:38:43 GMT\nOrganization: Unorganized Usenet Postings UnInc.\nX-News-Reader: VMS NEWS 1.24\nLines: 151\n\nIn <1r34n3$hfj@horus.ap.mchp.sni.de> frank@D012S658.uucp writes:\n\n[ Deletia; in case anybody hadn\'t noticed, Frank and I are debating\n "objective morality", and seemingly hitting semantics. ]\n\n> Secondly, how can I refute your definition? I can only point up its\n> logical implications, and say that they seem to contradict the usage\n> of the word "objective" in other areas. Indeed, by your definition, an\n> objective x is an oxymoron, for all x. I have no quibble with that\n> belief, other than that it is useless, and that "objective" is a perfectly\n> good word.\n\n It may be that, being a non-native English-speaker, I\'ve\nmisunderstood your usage of "objective", and tried to debate something\nyou don\'t assert; my apologies. I\'m at a loss to imagine what you really\ndo mean, though.\n\n># How many ages can the universe have, and still be internally self-\n>#consistent? I\'d be amazed if it was more than one. How many different\n>#moral systems can different members of society have - indeed, single\n>#individuals, in some cases - and humanity still stick together?\n> \n> Begging the question. People can have many opinions about the age\n> of the universe and humanity can still stick together. You are\n> saying that the universe has a _real_ age, independent of my beliefs about\n> it. Why?\n\n Wrong point. The age of the universe has no direct effect on\nhumanity\'s sticking power, in the way the moral system of a society can\nhave.\n\n I\'m saying the Universe has a "real age", because I see evidence\nfor it; cosmology, astronomy and so on. I say this age is independent of\npeople\'s opinions of it, because I know different people have a lot of\ndifferent opinions in the matter, yet empirical tests consistently seem\nto give roughly the same results.\n\n># The age of the universe, like most scientific facts, can be\n>#emirically verified through means that\'ll give the same result no matter\n>#who performs the testing (albeit there are error bars that may be on the\n>#largish side...). \n> \n> This assumes that the universe has a real age, or any kind of reality\n> which doesn\'t depend on what we think.\n\n I can\'t see how it does that. Put a creationist to the task of\nperforming the tests and calculations, see to it (s)he makes no blatant\nerrors in measuring or calculating, and the result of the test will be\nthe same.\n\n> Why should an extreme Biblical\n> Creationist give a rat\'s ass about the means of which you speak?\n\n Because logically consistent empirical tests contradict their\nopinion. If those tests were just my opinion, then their own tests\n(which would then be their opinion) would contradict mine, even if we\nconducted said tests in identical manner, no? They don\'t, which I take\nas showing these tests have some validity beyond our opinion of them.\n\n>#I\'ve heard of no way to verify morality in a\n>#consistent way, much less compute the errors of the measurement; care to\n>#enlighten me?\n> \n> The same is true of pain, but painkillers exist, and can be predicted\n> to work with some accuracy better than a random guess.\n\n Map the activity of nerves and neural activity, if you mean\nphysical pain. You have a sharp point, I\'ll give you that; but you still\nhaven\'t given me a way to quantify morality.\n\n> I wrote\n> elsewhere that morality should be hypotheses about observed value.\n\n We agree. Hypotheses, however, can change; I hold that there is no\n"ultimate hypothesis of morality" towards which these changes could\ngravitate, but that they could be changed in any way imaginable,\nproducing different results suitable for different tasks or purposes.\n\n> If a moral system makes a prediction "It will be better if...",\n> that can be tested,\n\n "Better" and "worse" are (almost?) always defined in the context\nof a moral system. Your prediction will _always_ be correct, *within*\n*that* *moral* *system*. What you need now is an objective definition of\n"good" and "bad"; I wish you luck.\n\n># People\'s *ideas* about the age of object X are *not* objective;\n>#you can have any idea you like, and I can\'t stop you. Universae and\n>#their ages is another ballgame; they are what they are, and if you\n>#dislike some detail of them, that\'s a problem with your *opinion* of\n>#them. \n> \n> Sure. Assume an objective reality, and you get statements like this.\n\n Isn\'t that what _you\'re_ doing, when assuming an "objectively\nreal" morality? Besides, what _exactly_ is provably wrong with my\nstatement?\n\n>#I claim that morality is an opinion of ours, and as such\n>#subjective and individual. If I\'m wrong, then some more-or-less\n>#objectively "real" thing exists, which you label "objective morality";\n>#can you back up this positive claim of existence?\n> \n> Can you back up your positive claim above? No. That\'s because it\'s an\n> assumption. I make the same assumption about values, on the basis\n> that there is no logical difference between the two, and the empirical\n> basis of the two is precisely the same.\n\n Claiming there is no objective morality is suddenly a positive\nclaim? Besides, I think I _can_ lend some credence to my claim; ponder\ndifferent individuals, both fully functional as human beings and members\nof society, but yet with wildly different moral codes. If morality was\n"objective", at least one should be way off base, but yet hir\n\'incorrect\' morality seems to function fine. How come?\n\n As for producing these individuals, it might be easiest to pick\nthem from different societies; say, an islamic one and some polynesian\nmatrilineal system, for example (if such still exist).\n\n[ deletia - testing for footballs on desks ]\n\n># Now take a look at morality. See anything? If so, please inform me\n>#which way to look, and WHY to look that particular way, as opposed to\n>#some other. Get my drift?\n> \n> No. Just look. Are you claiming never to know what good means?\n\n One thing is "good" under some circumstances, because we wish to\nachieve some goal, for some reason. Other times we wish to do something\nelse, and that thing is no longer so clearly "good" at all.\n\n Some things are hard to make "good", because we\'d seldom if ever\nwish to achieve the sort of goal mass murder would lead one into. Still,\nthe Aztecs were doing fine until the Spaniards wiped them out.\n\n I almost always know what "good" means; sometimes I even know why.\nI never claim this "good" is thereby fixed in stone, immutable.\n\n[...]\n># That\'s a simple(?) matter of proving the track record of the\n>#scientific method.\n> \n> I think it\'s great, and should be applied to values. I may be completely\n> wrong, but that\'s what I conclude as a result of quite an amount of\n> thought.\n\n Yes, me too, and I\'ve tried a thing or two down that line; it\ndoesn\'t look good for objective values to me at all.\n\n-- \n Disclaimer? "It\'s great to be young and insane!"\n',
"From: seanna@bnr.ca (Seanna (S.M.) Watson)\nSubject: Re: Mary's assumption\nOrganization: Bell-Northern Research, Ottawa, Canada\nLines: 20\n\nIn article <May.14.02.11.24.1993.25195@athos.rutgers.edu> David.Bernard@central.sun.com writes:\n[ in response to a question about why Jesus' parents would be sanctified \nbeyond normal humanity]\n>\n>When Elizabeth greeted Mary, Elizabeth said something to the effect that\n>Mary, out of all women, was blessed. If so, it appears that this\n>exactly places Mary beyond the sanctification of normal humanity.\n\nI would think that simply being pregnant with the incarnation of the \nAlmighty God would be enough to make Mary blessed among all women, whether\nor not she had special spiritual attributes. I find that the more special\nMary needs to be, the less human Jesus gets.\n\n==\nSeanna Watson Bell-Northern Research, | Pray that at the end of living,\n(seanna@bnr.ca) Ottawa, Ontario, Canada | Of philosophies and creeds,\n | God will find his people busy\nOpinion, what opinions? Oh *these* opinions. | Planting trees and sowing seeds.\nNo, they're not BNR's, they're mine. |\nI knew I'd left them somewhere. | --Fred Kaan\n",
'From: roy@mchip00.med.nyu.edu (Roy Smith)\nSubject: Re: SGI sales practices (Was: Crimson (Was: Kubota Announcement?))\nOrganization: New York University, School of Medicine\nLines: 26\nNNTP-Posting-Host: mchip00.med.nyu.edu\n\nolson@anchor.esd.sgi.com (Dave Olson) writes:\n> But surely you don\'t expect a system you buy now for a five year\n> period to be constantly upgradable over that entire five year period?\n\n\tWhat\'s sort of interesting about this whole thread is just how much\nit has in common with similar threads in groups dealing with other vendor\'s\nhardware. I currently deal basically with hardware from 3 vendors - Apple,\nDEC, and SGI - and thus tend to monitor the groups about those vendor\'s\nhardware. Currently, it seems like SGI customers are pissed at SGI about\ndropping support for the Personal Iris, DEC customers are pissed at DEC for\ndropping MIPS support in favor of the new Alpha boxes, and Apple customers\nseem to get pissed every time a new Mac is introduced that\'s faster and\ncheaper than the one they just bought. When I used to be a Sun customer\nyears ago, I remember people being pissed at Sun for leaving their 386\nand 680x0 customers out in the cold when Sparc came along.\n\n\tWhat\'s really interesting is that from what I can tell, the MIS\nfolks in the basement with their ES/9000 don\'t seem to be pissed at IBM.\nWhy? I have no idea. Either IBM really does take care of their customers\nbetter, or they just have their customers brainwashed better than the\nsmaller vendors do.\n-- \nRoy Smith <roy@nyu.edu>\nHippocrates Project, Department of Microbiology, Coles 202\nNYU School of Medicine, 550 First Avenue, New York, NY 10016\n"This never happened to Bart Simpson."\n',
"From: dozonoff@bu.edu (david ozonoff)\nSubject: Re: food-related seizures?\nLines: 11\nX-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5\n\nMichael Covington (mcovingt@aisun3.ai.uga.edu) wrote:\n: \n: How about contaminants on the corn, e.g. aflatoxin???\n: \nLittle alflatoxin on commercial cereal products and certainly wouldn't\ncause seizures.\n\n--\nDavid Ozonoff, MD, MPH\t\t |Boston University School of Public Health\ndozonoff@med-itvax1.bu.edu\t |80 East Concord St., T3C\n(617) 638-4620\t\t\t |Boston, MA 02118 \n",
"From: maureen@scicom.alphacdc.com (Maureen Brucker)\nSubject: Is this ethical?\nLines: 82\n\nThe following was published in the May 15th Rocky Mountain News. I\nguess I have some REAL ethical problems with the practices at this\nchurch. I understand that Baptism is an overriding factor. I also\nunderstand that this is not an honest way to proceed. Unfortunately,\nthis is becoming more typical of congregations as the Second Coming is\nperceived to approach.\n\nThere is a real element of disparation in this 'make it happen at any\ncost' style of theology. I wonder where TRUST IN THE LORD fits into\nthis equation?\n\nBaptisms draw parents' ire -- Children at church carnival in Springs\ntold they'd be killed by bee stings if they didn't submit to religious\nrite.\n\nBy Dick Foster -- Rocky Mountain News Southern Bureau\n\nColorado Springs -- Outraged parents say their children were lured to\na church carnival and then baptixed without their permission by a\nBaptist minister.\n\nDoxens of children, some as young as 8 years old and unaccompanied by\ntheir parents, thought they were going to a carnival at the\nCornerstone Baptist Church, where there would be a big water fight,\nfree balloons, squirt guns and candy.\n\nBefore that May 1 carnival was over, however, children were whisked\ninto a room for religious instruction and told they should be\nbaptized. In many cases they consented, although they or their\nfamilies are not of the Baptist faith.\n\nThe baptisms by the church have angered many parents, including\nPaulette Lamontagne, a Methodist and mother of twin 8-year-old girls\nwho were baptized without her knowledge or consent.\n\n'My understnading was they were going to a carnival. I feel that's a\nfalse pretense,' said Lamontagne. Her daughters said the minister\ntold them they would be killed by bee stings if they were not\nbaptized.\n\nCornerstone church officials defended their actions.\n\n'We take our instructions from the word of God and God has commanded\nus to baptize converts. No one can show me one passage in the Bible\nwhere it says that parental permission is required before a child is\nbaptized,' said Dan Irwin, associate pastor of the Cornerstone Baptist\nChurch.\n\nChurch officials did not tell parents their children would be baptized\nbecause 'they didn't ask,' Irwin said.\n\nMany other parents also felt they were simply sending their children\nto a carnival at the invitation of their children's friends who were\nmembers of the Cornerstone Church.\n\nPolice said chhurch officials had broken on laws in baptizing the\nchildren, but indicated the parents could pursue civil action.\n\n-------------------------------------------\nAren't these the same behaviors we condemn\nin the Hari Krishnas and other cults?\n\n[I think the issues are more complex than the newspaper account\nmentions. First, I'm not entirely sure that parental consent is\nabsolutely required. This would be extremely difficult, because of\nthe clear commandment to obey parents. But if an older child insisted\non being baptized without their parents' consent, I might be willing\nto do it. However this would be a serious step, and would warrant\nmuch careful discussion. The problem I find here is not so much\nparental consent as that there was nobody's consent. Whether you\nbelieve in infant baptism or not, baptism is supposed to be the sign\nof entry into a Christian community. If there isn't a commitment from\n*somebody*, whether parent or child, and no intent to become part of\nthe Church, the baptism appears to be a lie. Furthermore, it is\nlikely to raise serious practical problems. What if the child is from\na baptist tradition? Normally when he reaches the age of decision, he\nwould be expected to make a decision and be baptized. But he already\nhas been, by a church claiming to be a Baptist church. So does he get\nrebaptized? Neither answer is really very good. If not, he's being\nrobbed of an experience that should be very significant to his faith.\n\n--clh]\n",
'From: perry@dsinc.com (Jim Perry)\nSubject: Re: Where are they now?\nOrganization: Decision Support Inc.\nLines: 26\nNNTP-Posting-Host: bozo.dsinc.com\n\nPerhaps it\'s prophetic that the week "Where are they now?" appears and\nI can claim to be a still-active old-timer, my news software gets bit\nrot and ships outgoing articles into a deep hole somewhere... Anyway,\nhere\'s a repost:\n\nIn article <1qi156INNf9n@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU> tcbruno@athena.mit.edu (Tom Bruno) writes:\n>\n>Which brings me to the point of my posting. How many people out there have \n>been around alt.atheism since 1990? I\'ve done my damnedest to stay on top of\n>the newsgroup, but when you fall behind, you REALLY fall behind [...]\n\nThese days you don\'t have to fall far behind... Last Monday\n(admittedly after a long weekend, but...) I had 800+ messages just in\nthose few days. Aside from a hiatus while changing jobs last Fall\nI\'ve been here since 1990.\n\n>Has anyone tried to\n>keep up with the deluge? Inquiring minds want to know! Also-- does anyone\n>keep track of where the more infamous posters to alt.atheism end up, once they\n>leave the newsgroup? Just curious, I guess.\n\nHell, Norway? The rubber room at the funny farm? Seminary? It is\nnot given to us to know...\n-- \nJim Perry perry@dsinc.com Decision Support, Inc., Matthews NC\nThese are my opinions. For a nominal fee, they can be yours.\n',
'From: sjs28257@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Steve Stelter)\nSubject: Re: Mottos to replace "In doG we trust"\nOrganization: University of Illinois at Urbana\nLines: 12\n\npepke@dirac.scri.fsu.edu (Eric Pepke) writes:\n\n>"In Mammon We Trust"\n>"Hey, this is just a piece of paper!"\n>"Spend Me Quickly"\n\n"This is your god" (from John Carpenter\'s "They Live," natch)\n\n\n\n --Steve "The Lurking Horror" Stelter\n sjs28257@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu\n',
'From: creps@lateran.ucs.indiana.edu (Stephen A. Creps)\nSubject: Re: Does it matter which church?\nOrganization: Indiana University\nLines: 22\n\nIn article <May.2.09.51.04.1993.11807@geneva.rutgers.edu> gideon@otago.ac.nz (Gideon King) writes:\n>When the Protestant reformers opposed and subsequently separated from the \n>Church of Rome, the battle cry of the new protesting religion was "The \n>Bible, the whole Bible, and nothing but the Bible". Underlying that cry \n>was a theory that if people could read the Bible for themselves in their \n>native tongue they would discover the truth about God and His purpose. \n>They would shed their old errors and be united by a common faith.\n\n This idea, that the Reformers somehow were the first to bring the\nBible to the people in their own language, is a myth. Many vernacular\ntranslations of the Bible existed long before the Reformation. The\nVulgate Bible, which is still the official version of the Bible for the\nCatholic Church, was itself a translation in the common (i.e. vulgar ==\nvulgate) tongue of its day, Latin, and had existed for about a millenium\nbefore the Reformation.\n\n It might also be noted that the printing press was not even invented\nuntil the same century as that in which the Reformation occurred.\n\n-\t-\t-\t-\t-\t-\t-\t-\t-\t-\nSteve Creps, Indiana University\ncreps@lateran.ucs.indiana.edu\n',
'From: hall@vice.ico.tek.com (Hal F Lillywhite)\nSubject: Re: Mormon beliefs about children born out of wedlock\nOrganization: Tektronix Inc., Beaverton, Or.\nLines: 24\n\nIn article <May.13.02.30.13.1993.1529@geneva.rutgers.edu> aaronc@athena.mit.edu (Aaron Bryce Cardenas) writes:\n>Bruce Webster writes:\n>>Indeed, LDS doctrine goes one step further and in some cases\n>>holds parents responsible for their children\'s sins if they have\n>>failed to bring them up properly (cf. D&C 68:25-28\n\n>Hi Bruce. How do you reconcile this practice with Ezekiel 18?\n>Ezekiel 18:20 "The soul who sins is the one who will die. The son will not\n>share the guilt of the father, nor will the father share the guilt of the\n>son. The righteousness of the righteous man will be credited to him, and\n>the wickedness of the wicked will be charged against him."\n\nActually in D&C 68:25-28 the parents are being held accountable for\ntheir own sins. Specifically they are accountable for their failure\nto teach their children properly. If I fail to teach my children\nthat stealing is wrong then I am responsible for their theft if they\nlater indulge in such behavior.\n\nThis is very similar to the instructions Ezekiel was given in\nEze 3:18. If Ezekiel failed to do his duty and warn the wicked, \nnot only would the wicked die in his sins but the Lord would hold\nEzekiel responsible! Similarly parents are responsible to teach\ntheir children right from wrong. I suspect most Christians (and\nJews etc.) would agree that parents have this responsibility.\n',
'From: Stephen Dubin <sdubin@igc.apc.org>\nSubject: Re: Pregnency without sex?\nNf-ID: #R:stephen.735806195@mont:2081922821:cdp:1467700015:000:1159\nNf-From: cdp.UUCP!sdubin Apr 26 10:47:00 1993\nLines: 20\n\n\nI think you must have the same hygiene teacher I had in 1955. There \nis a story about the Civil War about a soldier who was shot in the\ngroin. The bullet, after passing through one of his testes, then entered\nthe abdomen of a young woman standing nearby. Later, when she (a young\nwoman of unimpeachible virtue) was shown to be pregnant; the soldier did\nthe honorable thing of marrying her. According to this story, they lived\nhappily ever after. \nPerhaps the most famous of Mr. Rau\'s classes was the time he would come\ninto class brandishing an aluminum turning mandrel (tapering from about\n3/8" to 1/2" over a 10 inch length). He would say, "Boys, do you know\nwhat this is? It\'s a medical instrument called a \'cock reamer\' and it\'s\nused to unclog your penis when you have VD. They just ram it up there\nwithout an anesthetic!" Needless to say this had a chilling effect.\nI didn\'t have lascivious thoughts for at least an hour. Later in life\nas I perused medical instrument catelogs and saw the slender flexible\nurethral sounds that are actually used, I could not escape thinking\nthat I might one day see, "Reamer, Cock (style of Rau) ." \n]\n\n',
'From: j.thornton@hawkesbury.uws.EDU.AU (Jason Thornton x640)\nSubject: Cancer of the testis\nOrganization: University of Western Sydney, Hawkesbury\nLines: 4\n\nCould someone give me some information on the cause, pathophysiology and \nclinical manifestations and treatment of this type of cancer.\n\nThank you in advance, Jason.\n',
"From: mmatusev@radford.vak12ed.edu (Melissa N. Matusevich)\nSubject: Re: Sumatripton (spelling?)\nOrganization: Virginia's Public Education Network (Radford)\nLines: 5\n\nIt just received FDA approval a few months ago. I have a\nprescription which I haven't had to use yet. I believe the\ncompany [Glaxol] is developing an oral form. At this stage, one\nmust inject the drug into one's muscle. The doctor said that\nwithin 30 minutes, the migraine is gone for good! \n",
'From: dan@ingres.com (a Rose arose)\nSubject: SJ Mercury\'s reference to Fundamentalist Christian parents\nOrganization: Representing my own views here.\nLines: 23\n\nIn the Monday, May 10 morning edition of the San Jose Mercury News an\narticle by Sandra Gonzales at the top of page 12A explained convicted\nkiller David Edwin Mason\'s troubled childhood saying,\n\n\t"Raised in Oakland and San Lorenzo by strict fundamentalist\n\tChristian parents, Mason was beaten as a child. He once was\n\ttied to a workbench and gagged with a cloth after he accidently\n\turinated on his mother when she walked under his bedroom window,\n\tcourt records show."\n\nWere the San Jose Mercury news to come out with an article starting with\n"Raised in Oakland by Mexican parents, Mason was beaten...", my face would\nbe red with anger over the injustice done to my Mexican family members and\nthe Mexican community as a whole. I\'m sure Sandra Gonzales would be equally\nupset.\n\nWhy is it that open biggotry like this is practiced and encouraged by the\nSan Jose Mercury News when it is pointed at the christian community?\n\nCan a good christian continue to purchase newspapers and buy advertising in\nthis kind of a newspaper? This is really bad journalism.\n\nI\'m upset.\n',
'Subject: Re: Earwax\nFrom: nicholson_s@kosmos.wcc.govt.nz\nReply-To: nicholson_s@kosmos.wcc.govt.nz\nOrganization: Wellington City Council (Public Access), Wgtn, Nz\nNNTP-Posting-Host: kosmos.wcc.govt.nz\nLines: 15\n\nIn article <stephen.736092732@mont>, stephen@mont.cs.missouri.edu (Stephen Montgomery-Smith) writes:\n>What is the healthiest way to deal with earwax? Should one just leave\n>it in your ear and not mess with it, or should you clean it out\n>every so often? Can cleaning it out damage your eardrums?\n>Are there any tubes in your ear that might get blocked?\n>\n>Stephen\n>\n\nThe best thing to do is leave it, it will work its own way out to the surface.\nAnything you stick up there to try and clean it is just going to push the wax\nup against your eardrum and pack it on there solid, thus impairing your\nhearing .\n\nSean\n',
'From: ae604@Freenet.carleton.ca (Michael Clark)\nSubject: video memory\nReply-To: Palm@snycanva.bitnet\nOrganization: The National Capital Freenet\nLines: 38\n\n\nHello\n\tI have posted to this newsgroup once before and recieved a\nmoderately helpful response on a couple of issues. This I appreciated very\nmuch . I would however like to know why it is that ther is simply NO \ninformation out there on some subjects for the relativly novice graphics\nprogrammer. The subjects are\n\n\t1) How do you access the extra video memory on a video board. I\nknow somwhere there aresome standard video bios calls that allow you to\ndothis. I have 1meg of memory on my board and according to all the books\nand info I have read I am only (at maximum) using 256k of it. There is a\nway to do this in standard VGA cause I have seen vidoe paging (written in\nassembly, which I don\'t know) written into apps hat use mode 13h. To get\nany speed at all you have to do this. How do I do it?\n\n\t2) The vesa standard. What gives here. I have read most of what\nthe net has to offer on VESA and as far as coding for VESA goes most of\nthe advice is cryptic at best. Where do I get public domain info that will\ntell me in "mostly plain" english how the vesa calls work.\n\n\tMy biggest gripe is about number 1. I have bought graphics books,\nI have asked graphics professors, I have hunted the net through both\ngopher, and archie, I ahave asked apps programmers and it is like there is\nsome lock on this information. Graphics programming books tell alot of\nprogrammiing algorithm information, but they always fall short of telling\nyou how to really control the video bios. What are all the calls folks, I\nknow there are people out there that know how to doall tis stuff. Where\nare you, and why haven\'t you written a book yet? \n\nPlease help\n\nThanks in advance\n\nStephen palm\npalm@snycanva.bitnet\n(please send all personal replies to the above address, thanks)\n\n',
'From: gt7122b@prism.gatech.edu (Randal Lee Nicholas Mandock)\nSubject: On Capital Punishment\nOrganization: Georgia Institute of Technology\nLines: 51\n\nIn article <May.11.02.37.49.1993.28198@athos.rutgers.edu>\n mmh@dcs.qmw.ac.uk (Matthew Huntbach) writes:\n\n>I would say only to the extent that the Roman Catholic Church\n>neither approves nor disapproves of capital punishment, as\n>confirmed in the recent catechism, though there are many RCs\n>who were rather surprised and upset that capital punishment was\n>not explicitly condemned.\n\nI quote from the journal, "30 Days In the Church and In the World,"\n1992, No. 8/9, p. 29. \n\nRegarding the new draft of the Universal Catechism:\n\n\tIn procuring the common good of society the need could arise\n\tthat the aggressor be placed in the position where he cannot\n\tcause harm. By virtue of this, the right and obligation of \n\tpublic authorities to punish with proportionate penalties,\n\tincluding the death penalty, is acknowledged. For similar\n\treasons, legimate authorities have the right to impede\n\taggressors in society with the use of arms. The Church\'s \n\ttraditional teaching has always been expressed and will \n\tcontinue to be expressed in the \n\tconsideration of the real conditions of common good and the\n\teffective means for preserving public order and personal\n\tsafety. To the degree that means other than the death\n\tpenalty and military operations are sufficient to keep the\n\tpeace, then these non-violent provisions are to be preferred\n\tbecause they are more in proportion and in keeping with the\n\tfinal goal of protection of peace and human dignity. \n\nAs is clearly shown by this excerpt, the Church\'s teaching on capital\npunishment remains today as it has always been in the past - in total\naccord with my sentiment that I do not disagree with the use of deadly\nforce in those cases for which this option is justifiable. \n\n>I do not think your biblical quote can automatically be taken\n>as support for capital punishment. I take it that as a Roman\n>Catholic you are opposed to abortion, and would still onsider\n>it wrong, and something to be objected to even if legalised by\n>"authority".\n\nI seek to conform my will to the will of God as expounded by His\ninstrument of the visible Church here on earth whenever the question\nof faith or morals arises. \n\n\n-- \nRandal Lee Nicholas Mandock \nCatechist\ngt7122b@prism.gatech.edu \n',
'From: shell@cs.sfu.ca (Barry Shell)\nSubject: Great Canadian Scientists\nOrganization: CSS, Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada\nLines: 155\n\nAbout two years ago I posted the following:\n \nI am planning to write a new book called "Great Canadian Scientists."\nPlease forward your nominations to me: shell@cs.sfu.ca\n \nThe rules are that the person must be a Canadian citizen. They don\'t have\nto be born in Canada or even live in Canada, but they must have (or have\nhad, if they are dead) Canadian citizenship while they are/were great\nCanadian scientists.\n \nAbout 70 people have been nominated already and they are listed at the\nend of this posting.\n \nI\'m not quite sure what should constitute greatness, and there may be a\ngray area here. If you have any ideas on criteria for greatness, I would be\npleased to hear them. In any event, please nominate people even if you are\nnot sure they are great. I would like as big a list as possible.\n \nPlease give me a name and email address, phone number or mail address, so\nthat I can contact the person. If you don\'t know any of the above, then\ngive me their last known whereabouts. Also please give your reason for why\nyou think the person should be considered a great Canadian scientist.\n \nAfter I have the list, I will choose about six of the most interesting ones\nand do in-depth biographies of those individuals in the style of Tracy\nKidder\'s "Soul of a New Machine" or some other dramatic technique.\nThe rest of the great Canadian scientists will appear in an appedix with \none paragraph biographies.\n \nIf you have any other ideas about this project, I am interested to hear\nthem.\n \nSo far, I have received 68 nominations as follows:\n \n \nFirst Name Last Name Nominator Famous For\n---------- --------- --------- ----------\nSid Altman Kuszewski, John Catalytic RNA(Nobel Chem 89)\nFrederick Banting me Insulin (Nobel U23 medicine)\nDavidson Black Stanley, Robert Discovered Peking Man\nJames R. Bolton Warden, Joseph chemistry?\nRaoul Bott Smith, Steven Math: algebraic topology.\nWillard Boyle Chamm, Craig Co inventor of CCD\nGerard Bull Stanley, Robert Ballistics and gunnery\nDennis Chitty Galindo-Leal, Carlos First animal ecologist\nBrian C. Conway Tellefsen, Karen Electrochemistry\nStephen Cook Mendelzon, Alberto NP-completeness, complexity\n? Copp Kuch, Gerald biochem aspects of physiol\nH.S.M. Coxeter Calkin, Neil J. Regular polytopes (math)\nP. N. Daykin Palmer, Bill Chem, mosquito repellant\nH. E. Duckworth anonymous Mass Spectroscopy, admin\nJack Edmonds Snoeyink, Jack Math, Operations research\nReginald Fessenden Johnsen, Hans Wire insulation, light bulb\nUrsula Franklin McKellin, William Physics archeol. materials\nJ. A. Gray Gray, Tom Nuclear physics, The Gray\nE. W. Guptill Chamm, Craig Slotted array radar\nDonald Hebb Lyons, Michael Learning (Hebbian synapses)\nGerhard Herzberg me Optical spectr Nobel 71\nJames Hillier me Electron Microscope (Can/Am)\nCrawford S. Holling Galindo-Leal, Carlos Ecology, predators and prey\nDavid Hubel Lyons, Michael Visual cortex (Nobel med ?)\nKenneth Iverson Dare, Gary Invented APL\nJ. D. Jackson Austern, Matt Elementary Particle Theory\nAndre Joyal Pananagden, Prakash Category theory, categ Logic\nMartin Kamen me Carbon-14 (Canadian/Amer.)\nIrving Kaplansky Knighten, Bob Algebra, functional analysis\nGeorge S. Kell Kell, Dave Hot water freezing\nT. E. Kellogg Palmer, Bill Chem, mosquito repellant\nGeraldine Kenney-Wallace Siegman, Anthony Chemistry ? Administration\nBrian Kernaghan Brader, Mark C programming language\nMichael L. Klein Marchi, Massimo Theoretical Chemistry\nCharles J. Krebs Galindo-Leal, Carlos Ecology, Krebs effect\nK. J. Laidler Tellefsen, Karen Chemical Kinetics\nG. C. Laurence Palmer, Bill Physics ????\nRaymond Lemieux Smith, Earl First synthesized glucose\nMartin Levine Meunier, Robert Computer vision\nEdward S. Lowry himself Computer programming\nPere Marie-Victorin Meunier, Robert Jardin Botanique de Montreal\nColin MacLeod Turner, Steven Nobel (?) DNA discovery?\nMarshall McLuhan Clamen, Stewart Social sci, communications\nBen Morrison Willson, David Aurora Borealis\nLawrence Morley Strome, Murray Plate Tektonics/Remote sense\nFarley Mowat Abbott, John Northern Animal rights?\nKevin Ogilvie Kendrick, Kelly Genetics, cure for herpes?\nSir William Osler Lyons, Michael Medicine\nP.J.E. Peebles Vishniac, Ethan Most important cosmologist\nWilder Penfield Perri, Marie Anatomical basis for memory\nJohn Polanyi me chemiluminescensce Nobel86\nDenis Poussart Meunier, Robert Computer Vision\nAnatol Rapoport Lloyd-Jones, David conflict theory, game theory\nHoward Rapson Sutherland, Russell Pulp chemistry\nHans Selye Goel, Anil K. Psychology of stress.\nWilliam Stephenson Wilkins, Darin WW2 Enigma code, Wire photo\nBoris Stoicheff Siegman, Anthony Raman Spectroscopy\nDavid Suzuki Meister, Darren Science communication\nHenry Taube Parker, Wiley Physical Chemistry Nobel83\nRichard Taylor Manuel, John Verified Quark model Nobel90\nDavid Thompson Eisler, Michael Mapped western Canada\nEndel Tulving Green, Christopher Psychology of memory\nBill Tutte Royle, Gordon matroid theory (math)\nI Uchida Palmer, Bill Down\'s syndrome\nJ. Tuzo Wilson Collier, John Continental Drift theory\nR. H. Wright Palmer, Bill Chem, mosquito repellant\nJ.L.(Allen) Yen Leone, Pasquale VL baseline interferometry\nWalter Zinn me Breader Reactor (Can/Amer.)\n----------------------------------------------------------------------------\n \nThe list is growing nicely. It\'s amazing to see just how much was discovered\nby Canadians. Actually there are many more who were born in Canada, but\nbecame Americans after graduate school.\n \nPlease note: a lot of people have nominated Alexander Graham Bell but I\nfeel he was really a Scottish/American with a summer home in Canada. Now\nI know this is debatable, but please don\'t nominate him again.\n \nIf anyone can fill in some of the question marks on the list, please drop\nme a line.\n==================================================\n \nThat was two years ago. Since then, I have received a grant from Science\nCulture Canada, a division of Supply and Services Canada to research the\nbook. Since my old posting the book has evolved into an educational book\nfor kids aged 9 - 14 (though this may change again) It will have about\n40 two-page spreads with a large graphic in the middle and text/graphic\nboxes all around on the following subjects: Vital statistics and photo of\nthe scientist, Personal statement from the scientist, Narrative of a few\nmoments in the life of the scientist, "What I was doing when I was 12",\nSo you want to be a <insert kind of scientist>, Experiment you can do. There \nwill be an appendix with 100 - 200 more scientists with one paragraph\nbiographies who didn\'t quite make it to the double spreads. The whole thing\nwill then be published on CD-ROM with video and sound clips for added\nrichness. I am looking for a CD-ROM publisher as well. The text part may\nalso be available on the CANARIE electronic highway being developed in\nCanada as well.\n \nI am still looking for a publisher though Penguin Canada came close \nto being it. Hope to find one soon. \n \nI would like to again ask for more nominations, especially in the\npure sciences of Physics, Chemistry and Biology. Also criticisms of \nthe list are welcomed. Also women and French-Canadian scientists are needed.\n \nI hope this posting will get others to nominate more Great Canadian\nScientists, and to discuss what is "great" what is "Canadian" and what is\n"scientist".\n \nPlease respond to:\nshell@sfu.ca\n \nor\nBarry Shell 604-876-5790\n \n4692 Quebec St. Vancouver, B.C. V5V 3M1 Canada\n \nThanks to all who responded already.\n',
'From: xyzzy@hal.gnu.ai.mit.edu (Daniel Drucker)\nSubject: Re: Where did the hacker ethic go?\nOrganization: dis\nLines: 18\nNNTP-Posting-Host: hal.ai.mit.edu\n\nIn article <gradyC6D7Ep.AwE@netcom.com> grady@netcom.com (1016/2EF221) writes:\n>Where did the hacker ethic go?\n>\n>We hackers of the 70\'s and 80\' are now comfortably employed\n>and supporting families. The next generation takes\n>the radical lead now. Don\'t look for radicalism among us\n>old ones; we\'re gone...\n\nAnd guess who\'s here in your place.\n\nPlease finger xyzzy@gnu.ai.mit.edu for information, or if you are\na mail/news only site, mail xyzzy@gnu.ai.mit.edu with the subject line\n"SEND FINGER".\n\n\n-- \nDaniel Drucker N2SXX | xyzzy@gnu.ai.mit.edu\nForever, forever, my Coda. | und2dzd@vaxc.hofstra.edu\n',
'From: david@stat.com (David Dodell)\nSubject: HICN611 Medical News Part 2/4\nReply-To: david@stat.com (David Dodell)\nDistribution: world\nOrganization: Stat Gateway Service, WB7TPY\nLines: 707\n\n------------- cut here -----------------\n\n\n\n\n\nHICNet Medical Newsletter Page 13\nVolume 6, Number 11 April 25, 1993\n\n\n\n::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::\n Food & Drug Administration News\n::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::\n\n FDA Approves Depo Provera, injectable contraceptive\n P92-31 Food and Drug Administration\n FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE Susan Cruzan - (301) 443-3285\n\n\nThe Food and Drug Administration today announced the approval of Depo Provera, \nan injectable contraceptive drug. \n\nThe drug, which contains a synthetic hormone similar to the natural hormone \nprogesterone, protects women from pregnancy for three months per injection. \nThe hormone is injected into the muscle of the arm or buttock where it is \nreleased into the bloodstream to prevent pregnancy. It is more than 99 percent \neffective.\n\n"This drug presents another long-term, effective option for women to prevent \npregnancy," said FDA Commissioner David A. Kessler, M.D. "As an injectable, \ngiven once every three months, Depo Provera eliminates problems related to \nmissing a daily dose."\n\nDepo Provera is available in 150 mg. single dose vials from doctors and \nclinics and must be given on a regular basis to maintain contraceptive \nprotection. If a patient decides to become pregnant, she discontinues the \ninjections.\n\nAs with any such products, FDA advises patients to discuss the benefits and \nrisks of Depo Provera with their doctor or other health care professional \nbefore making a decision to use it.\n\nDepo Provera\'s effectiveness as a contraceptive was established in extensive \nstudies by the manufacturer, the World Health Organization and health agencies \nin other countries. U.S. clinical trials, begun in 1963, also found Depo \nProvera effective as an injectable contraceptive.\n\nThe most common side effects are menstrual irregularities and weight gain. In \naddition, some patients may experience headache, nervousness, abdominal pain, \ndizziness, weakness or fatigue. The drug should not be used in women who have \nacute liver disease, unexplained vaginal bleeding, breast cancer or blood \nclots in the legs, lungs or eyes.\n\nThe labeling advises doctors to rule out pregnancy before prescribing the \ndrug, due to concerns about low birth weight in babies exposed to the drug. \n\nHICNet Medical Newsletter Page 14\nVolume 6, Number 11 April 25, 1993\n\nRecent data have also demonstrated that long-term use may contribute to \nosteoporosis. The manufacturer will conduct additional research to study this \npotential effect.\n\nDepo Provera was Developed in the 1960s and has been approved for \ncontraception in many other countries. The UpJohn Company of Kalamazoo, Mich., \nwhich will market the drug under the name, Depo Provera Contraceptive \nInjection, first submitted it for approval in the United States in the 1970s. \nAt that time, animal studies raised questions about its potential to cause \nbreast cancer. Worldwide studies have since found the overall risk of cancer, \nincluding breast cancer in humans, to be minimal if any.\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\nHICNet Medical Newsletter Page 15\nVolume 6, Number 11 April 25, 1993\n\n New Rules Speed Approval of Drugs for Life-Threatening Illnesses\n P92-37 Food and Drug Administration\n Monica Revelle - (301) 443-4177\n\nThe Food and Drug Administration today announced that it will soon publish new \nrules to shed the approval of drugs for patients with serious or life-\nthreatening illnesses, such as AIDS, cancer and Alzheimer\'s disease. \n\n"These final rules will help patients who are suffering the most serious \nillnesses to get access to new drugs months or even years earlier than would \notherwise be possible," said HHS Secretary Louis W. Sullivan, M.D. "The effort \nto accelerate FDA review for these drugs has been a long-term commitment and \nindeed a hallmark of this administration." \n\nThese rules establish procedures for the Food and Drug Administration to \napprove a drug based on "surrogate endpoints" or markers. They apply when the \ndrug provides a meaningful benefit over currently available therapies. Such \nendpoints would include laboratory tests or physical signs that do not in \nthemselves constitute a clinical effect but that are judged by qualified \nscientists to be likely to correspond to real benefits to the patient. \n\nUse of surrogate endpoints for measurement of drug efficacy permits approval \nearlier than if traditional endpoints -- such as relief of disease symptoms or \nprevention of disability and death from the disease -- are used. \n\nThe new rules provide for therapies to be approved as soon as safety and \neffectiveness, based on surrogate endpoints, can be reasonably established. \nThe drug\'s sponsor will be required to agree to continue or conduct \npostmarketing human studies to confirm that the drug\'s effect on the surrogate \nendpoint is an indicator of its clinical effectiveness. \n\nOne new drug -- zalcitabine (also called ddC) -- was approved June 19, using a \nmodel of this process, for treating the human immunodeficiency virus, HIV, the \ncause of AIDS. \n\nAccelerated approval can also be used, if necessary, when FDA determines that \na drug, judged to be effective for the treatment of a disease, can be used \nsafely only under a restricted distribution plan. \n\n"The new rules will help streamline the drug development and review process \nwithout sacrificing goad science and rigorous FDA oversight," said FDA \ncommissioner David A. Kessler, M.D. "While drug approval will be accomplished \nfaster, these drugs and biological products must still meet safety and \neffectiveness standards required by law." \n\n\nHICNet Medical Newsletter Page 16\nVolume 6, Number 11 April 25, 1993\n\nThe new procedures also allow for a streamlined withdrawal process if the \npostmarketing studies do not verify the drug\'s clinical benefit, if there is \nnew evidence that the drug product is not shown to be safe and effective, or \nif other specified circumstances arise that necessitate expeditious withdrawal \nof the drug or biologic.\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\nHICNet Medical Newsletter Page 17\nVolume 6, Number 11 April 25, 1993\n\n\n\n::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::\n Articles\n::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::\n\n Research Shows Promise for Preventing or Slowing\n Blindness due to Retinal Disease\n\n National Retinitis Pigmentosa Foundation\n\n Neutrophilic Factors Rescue Photoreceptor Cells in Animal Tests\n\n Baltimore, MD - Researchers at the University of California San Francisco \nand Regeneron Pharmaceuticals, Inc. [NASDAQ: REGN] have discovered that \ncertain naturally occurring substances known as neurotrophic factors can \nprevent the degeneration of light-sensing cells in the retina of the eye. The \ndegeneration of these cells, known as photoreceptors, is a major cause of \nvisual impairment \n This research, published to in the December issue of the Proceedings of \nthe National Academy of Science (PNAS), holds promise for people who may lose \ntheir sight due to progressive retinal degeneration -- currently, no drug \ntreatment for retinal degeneration exists. It is estimated that 2.5 million \nAmericans have severe vision loss due to age-related macular degeneration and \n100,000 Americans are affected by retinitis pigmentosus, a hereditary disease \nthat causes blindness. In addition, each year more than 15,000 people undergo \nsurgical procedures to repair retinal detachments and other retinal traumas. \n The research was funded in part by the RP (Retinitis Pigmentosa) \nFoundation Fighting Blindness, Regeneron Pharmaceuticals and the National Eye \nInstitute. It was conducted by Drs. Matthew M. LaVail, Kazuhiko Unoki, Douglas \nYasurnura, Michael T. Matthes and Roy H. Steinberg at UCSF, arld Dr. C;eorge \nYancoooulos, Regeneron\'s Vice President for Discovery. Regeneron holds an \nexclusive license for this research from UCSF.\n In the research described in the PNAS , a light-damage model was used to \nassess the survival-promoting activity of a number of naturally occurring \nsubstances. Experimental rats were exposed to constant light for one week. \nEyes that had not been treated with an effective factor lost most of their \nphotoreceptor cells -- the rods and cones of the retina -- after light \nexposure. Brain Derived Neurotrophic Factor (BDNF) and Ciliary Neurotrophic \nFactor (CNTF) were particularly effective in this model without causing \nunwanted side effects; other factors such as Nerve Growth Factor (NGF) and \nInsulin-like Growth Factor (IGF-1) were not effective in these experiments. \n Discussing the research, Dr. Jesse M. Cedarbaum, Regeneron\'s Director of \nClinical Research, said, "BDNF\'s ability to rescue neurons in the retina that \nhave been damaged by light exposure may hold promise for the treatment of age-\nrelated macular degeneration, one of the leading causes of vision impairment, \nand for retinal detachment. Following detachment, permanent vision loss may \n\nHICNet Medical Newsletter Page 18\nVolume 6, Number 11 April 25, 1993\n\nresult frorn the death of detached retinal cells. It is possible that BDNF \ncould play a role in rescuing those cells once the retina has been reattached \nsurgically." \n "Retinitis pigmentosa is a slowly progressing disease that causes the \nretina to degenerate over a period of years or even decades. Vision decreases \nto a small tunnel of sight and can result in total blindness. It is our hope \nthat research on growth factors will provide a means to slow the progression \nand preserve useful vision throughout life," stated Jeanette S. Felix, Ph.D., \nDirector of Science for the RP Foundation Fighting Blindness. \n In addition to the work described , Regeneron is developing BDNF in \nconjunction with Aingen Inc. [NASDAQ:AMGN] as a possible treatment for \nperipheral neuropathies associated with diabetes and cancer chemotherapy, \nmotor neuron diseases, Parkinson\'s disease, and Alzheimer\'s disease. By \nitself, Regeneron is testing CNTF in patients with arnyotrophic lateral \nsclerosis (commonly known as Lou Gehrig\'s disease). \n Regeneron Pharlnaceuticals, Inc., based in Tarrytown, New York, is a \nleader in the discovery and development of biotechnology-based compounds for \nthe treatment of neurodegenerative diseases, peripheral neuropathies and nerve \ninjuries, which affect more than seven million Americans. Drs. LaVail and \nSteinberg of UCSF are consultants to Regeneron.\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\nHICNet Medical Newsletter Page 19\nVolume 6, Number 11 April 25, 1993\n\n Affluent Diet Increases Risk Of Heart Disease\n\n Research Resources Reporter\n written by Mary Weideman\n Nov/Dec 1992\n National Institutes of Health\n\n\n High-fat, high-calorie diets rapidly increase risk factors for coronary \nheart disease in native populations of developing countries that have \ntraditionally consumed diets low in fat. These findings, according to \ninvestigators at the Oregon Health Sciences University in Portland, have \nserious implications for public health in both industrialized and developing \ncountries. \n "This study demonstrates why we can develop coronary heart disease and \nhave higher blood cholesterol and triglyceride levels. It shows also the \nimportance of diet and particularly the potential of the diet to increase body \nweight, thereby leading to a whole host of other health problems in developing \ncountries and affluent nations as well," explains principal investigator Dr. \nWilliam E. Connor, head of the section of clinical nutrition and lipid \nmetabolism at Oregon Health Sciences University. \n Over the past 25 years Dr. Connor and his team have characterized the \nfood and nutrient intakes of the Tara humara Indians in Mexico, while \nsimultaneously documenting various aspects of Tarahumara lipid metabolism. \nThese native Mexicans number approximately 50,000 and reside in the Sierra \nMadre Occidental Mountains in the state of Chihuahua. The Tarahumaras have \ncoupled an agrarian diet to endurance racing. Probably as a result, coronary \nheart disease, which is so prevalent in Western industrialized nations, is \nvirtually non existent in their culture. Loosely translated, the name \nTarahumara means "fleet of foot," reflecting a tribal passion for betting on \n"kickball" races, in which participants run distances of 100 miles or more \nwhile kicking a machete-carved wooden ball.\n The typical Tarahumara diet consists primarily of pinto beans, tortillas, \nand pinole, a drink made of ground roasted corn mixed with cold water, \ntogether with squash and gath ered fruits and vegetables. The Tara humaras \nalso eat small amounts of game, fish, and eggs. Their food contains \napproximately 12 percent of total calories as fat of which the majority (69 \npercent) is of vegetable origin. Dietician Martha McMurry, a coinvestigator \nin the study, describes their diet as simple and very rich in nutrients while \nlow in cholesterol and fat.\n The Tarahumaras have average plasma cholesterol levels of 121 mg/ dL, \nlow-density lipoprotein (LDL)-cholesterol levels of 72 mg/dl, and high-density \nlipoprotein (HDL)-cholesterol levels of 32 to 42 mg/dl. All of those values \nare in the good, low-risk range, according to the researchers. Elevated \ncholesterol and LDL-cholesterol levels are considered risk factors for heart \n\nHICNet Medical Newsletter Page 20\nVolume 6, Number 11 April 25, 1993\n\ndisease. HDL-cholesterol is considered beneficial. In previous studies the \nTarahumaras had been found to be at low risk for cardiac disease, although \nable to respond to high-cholesterol diets with elevations in total and LDL-\ncholesterol. \n Clinical Research Center dietitian McMurry and coinvestigator Maria \nTeresa Cerqueira established a metabolic unit in a Jesuit mission school \nbuilding near a community hospital in the small village of Sisoguichi. Food \nwas weighed, cooked, and fed to the study participants under the \ninvestigators\' direct supervision, ensuring that subjects ate only food \nstipulated by the research protocol. Fasting blood was drawn twice weekly, \nand plasma samples were frozen and shipped to Dr. Connors laboratory for \ncholesterol, triglyceride, and lipoprotein analyses. Regular measurements \nincluded participant body weight, height, and triceps skin fold thickness. \nThirteen Tarahumaras, five women and eight men, including one adolescent, were \nfed their native diet for 1 week, followed by 5 weeks of an "affluent" diet. \n "In this study we went up to a concentration of dietary fat that was 40 \npercent of total calories. This is the prototype of the holiday diet that \nmany Americans consume a diet high in fat, sugar, and cholesterol, low in \nfiber," elaborates Dr. Conners. Such dietary characteristics are reflected in \nthe cholesterol-saturation index, or CSI, recently devised research dietitian \nSonja Conner working with Dr. Connor. "The CSI is a single number that \nincorporates both the amount of cholesterol and the amount of saturated fat in \nthe diet. CSI indicates the diet\'s potential to elevate the cholesterol \nlevel, particularly the LDL," Dr. Connor explains. The Tarahumaran diet \naverages a very low CSI of 20; Dr. Connor\'s "affluent" diet used in the study \nranks a CSI of 149. \n The experimental design of this study reflects the importance of \nestablishing baseline plasma lipid levels, typical of the native diet, before \nexposing subjects to the experimental diet. The standard curve relating \ndietary food intake to plasma cholesterol demonstrates a leveling off, or \nplateau, for consumption of large amounts of fat. Changes in dietary fat \nand/or cholesterol in this range have little effect on plasma levels. "You \nmust have the baseline diet almost free of the variables you are going to put \ninto the experimental diet. The Framingham study, for example, did not \ndiscriminate on the basis of diet between individuals who got heart disease \nbecause the diet was already high in fat. All subjects were already eating on \na plateau," Dr. Connor says. \n After 5 weeks of consuming the "affluent" diet, the subjects\' mean plasma \ncholesterol levels had in creased by 31 percent, primarily in the LDL \nfraction, which rose 39 percent. HDL-cholesterol increased by 31 per cent, \nand LDL to HDL ratios changed therefore very little. Plasma triglyceride \nlevels increased by 18 percent, and subjects averaged an 8-pound gain in \nweight. According to Dr. Connor, lipid changes occurred surprisingly soon, \nyielding nearly the same results after 7 days of affluent diet as after 35 \ndays. \n\nHICNet Medical Newsletter Page 21\nVolume 6, Number 11 April 25, 1993\n\n The increase in HDL carries broad dietary implications for industrialized \nnations. "We think HDL-cholesterol increased because we increased the amount \nof dietary fat over the fat content used in the previous Tarahumara metabolic \nstudy. In that study we saw no change in HDL levels after raising the dietary \ncholesterol but keeping the fat relatively consistent with native consumption. \nIn the present study we increased fat intake to 40 percent of the total \ncalories. We reached the conclusion in the Tarahumara study that HDL reflects \nthe amount of dietary fat in general and not the amount of dietary \ncholesterol. HDL must increase to help metabolize the fat, and it increased \nquite a bit in this study," Dr. Connor explains.\n Low HDL in the Tarahumarans is not typically an important predictor of \ncoronary heart disease because they do not normally consume large amounts of \nfat or cholesterol. HDL remains an important predictor to Americans because \nof their usual high fat intake. \n Dr. Connor recommends a diet for Americans that contains less than 20 \npercent of total calories as fat, less than 100 mg of cholesterol, and a CSI \naround 20, varying in accordance with caloric needs. Such a diet is low in \nmeat and dairy fat, high in fiber. Dr. Connor also comments on recent \nsuggestions that Americans adopt a "Mediterranean-style" diet. "The original \nMediterranean diet, in its pristine state, consisted of a very low intake of \nfat and very few animal and dairy products. We are already eating a lot of \nmeat and dairy products. Simply to continue that pattern while switching to \nolive oil is not going to help the situation." \n The World Health Organization (WHO) is focusing much attention on the \nemergence of diseases such as coronary heart disease in nations and societies \nundergoing technological development. Dr. Connor says that coronary heart \ndisease starts with a given society\'s elite, who typically eat a different \ndiet than the average citizen. "If the pattern of afluence increases, the \nentire population will have have a higher incidence of coronary heart disease, \nwhich places a termendous health care burden on a society. WHO would like the \ndeveloping countries to prevent coronary heart disease, so they can \nconcentrate on other aspects of their economic development and on public \nhealth measures to improve general well-being, rather than paying for \nunnecessary, expensive medical technology," Dr. Connors says.\n "The overall implication of this study is that humans can readily move \ntheir plasma lipids and lipoprotein values into a high-risk range within a \nvery short time by an affluent, excessive diet. The present rate of coronary \nheart disease in the United States is 30 percent less than it was 20 years \nago, so a lot has been accomplished. We are changing rapidly," he concludes.\n\n\n\n\n\n\nHICNet Medical Newsletter Page 22\nVolume 6, Number 11 April 25, 1993\n\n\n\n::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::\n General Announcments\n::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::\n\n Publications for Health Professionals Available from NCI (1/93)\n\nUnless otherwise noted, the following materials are provided free of charge by \ncalling the NCI\'s Publication Ordering Service, 1-800-4-CANCER. Because \nFederal Government publications are not subject to copyright restriction, you \nare free to photocopy NCI material. \n \n \nGENERAL INFORMATION\n \n \n ANTICANCER DRUG INFORMATION SHEETS IN SPANISH/ENGLISH. Two-\n sided fact sheets (in English and Spanish) provide\n information about side effects of common drugs used to treat\n cancer, their proper usage, and precautions for patients.\n The fact sheets were prepared by the United States\n Pharmacopeial Convention, Inc., for distribution by the\n National Cancer Institute. Single sets only may be ordered.\n \n CANCER RATES AND RISKS, 3RD EDITION (85-691). This book is\n a compact guide to statistics, risk factors, and risks for\n major cancer sites. It includes charts and graphs showing\n incidence, mortality, and survival worldwide and in the\n United States. It also contains a section on the costs of\n cancer. 136 pages.\n \n DIET, NUTRITION & CANCER PREVENTION: A GUIDE TO FOOD CHOICES\n (87-2778). This booklet describes what is now known about\n diet, nutrition, and cancer prevention. It provides\n information about foods that contain components like fiber,\n fat, and vitamins that may affect a person\'s risk of getting\n certain cancers. It suggests ways to use that information\n to select from a broad variety of foods--choosing more of\n some foods and less of others. Includes recipes and sample\n menus. 39 pages.\n \n NATIONAL CANCER INSTITUTE FACT BOOK. This book presents\n general information about the National Cancer Institute\n including budget data, grants and contracts, and historical\n information.\n \n\nHICNet Medical Newsletter Page 23\nVolume 6, Number 11 April 25, 1993\n\n NATIONAL CANCER INSTITUTE GRANTS PROCESS (91-1222) (Revised\n 3/90). This booklet describes general NCI grant award\n procedures; includes chapters on eligibility, preparation of\n grant application, peer review, eligible costs, and post-\n award activities. 62 pages.\n \n PHYSICIAN TO PHYSICIAN: PERSPECTIVE ON CLINICAL TRIALS. This\n 15-minute videocassette discusses why and how to enter\n patients on clinical trials. It was produced in\n collaboration with the American College of Surgeons\n Commission on Cancer.\n \n \n STUDENTS WITH CANCER: A RESOURCE FOR THE EDUCATOR (91-2086).\n (Revised 4/87) This booklet is designed for teachers who\n have students with cancer in their classrooms or schools. It\n includes an explanation of cancer, its treatment and\n effects, and guidelines for the young person\'s re-entry to\n school and for dealing with terminally ill students.\n Bibliographies are included for both educators and young\n people. 22 pages.\n \n UNDERSTANDING THE IMMUNE SYSTEM (92-529). This booklet\n describes the complex network of specialized cells and\n organs that make up the human immune system. It explains how\n the system works to fight off disease caused by invading\n agents such as bacteria and viruses, and how it sometimes\n malfunctions, resulting in a variety of diseases from\n allergies, to arthritis, to cancer. It was developed by the\n National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases and\n printed by the National Cancer Institute. This booklet\n presents college level instruction in immunology. It is\n appropriate for nursing or pharmacology students and for\n persons receiving college training in other areas within the\n health professions. 36 pages.\n \n \nMATERIALS TO HELP STOP TOBACCO USE\n \n CHEW OR SNUFF EDUCATOR PACKAGE (91-2976). Each package\n contains:\n \n Ten copies of CHEW OR SNUFF IS REAL BAD STUFF, a\n brochure designed for seventh and eighth graders that\n describes the health and social effects of using\n\nHICNet Medical Newsletter Page 24\nVolume 6, Number 11 April 25, 1993\n\n smokeless tobacco products. When fully opened, the\n brochure can be used as a poster.\n \n One copy of CHEW OR SNUFF IS REAL BAD STUFF: A GUIDE\n TO MAKE YOUNG PEOPLE AWARE OF THE DANGERS OF USING\n SMOKELESS TOBACCO. This booklet is a lesson plan for\n teachers. It contains facts about smokeless tobacco,\n suggested classroom activities, and selected\n educational resources.\n \n HOW TO HELP YOUR PATIENTS STOP SMOKING: A NATIONAL CANCER\n INSTITUTE MANUAL FOR PHYSICIANS (92-3064). This is a step-\n by-step handbook for instituting smoking cessation\n techniques in medical practices. The manual, with resource\n lists and tear-out materials, is based on the results of NCI\n clinical trials. 75 pages.\n \n HOW TO HELP YOUR PATIENTS STOP USING TOBACCO: A NATIONAL\n CANCER INSTITUTE MANUAL FOR THE ORAL HEALTH TEAM (91-3191).\n This is a handbook for dentists, dental hygienists, and\n dental assistants. It complements the physicians\' manual\n and includes additional information on smoking prevention\n and on smokeless tobacco use. 58 pages.\n \n PHARMACISTS HELPING SMOKERS QUIT KIT. A packet of materials\n to help pharmacists encourage their smoking patients to\n quit. Contains a pharmacist\'s guide and self-help materials\n for 25 patients.\n \n SCHOOL PROGRAMS TO PREVENT SMOKING: THE NATIONAL CANCER\n INSTITUTE GUIDE TO STRATEGIES THAT SUCCEED (90-500). This\n guide outlines eight essential elements of a successful\n school-based smoking prevention program based on NCI\n research. It includes a list of available curriculum\n resources and selected references. 24 pages.\n \n \n SELF-GUIDED STRATEGIES FOR SMOKING CESSATION: A PROGRAM\n PLANNER\'S GUIDE (91-3104). This booklet outlines key\n characteristics of successful self-help materials and\n programs based on NCI collaborative research. It lists\n additional resources and references. 36 pages.\n \n \n SMOKING POLICY: QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS. These ten fact sheets\n\nHICNet Medical Newsletter Page 25\nVolume 6, Number 11 April 25, 1993\n\n provide basic information about the establishment of\n worksite smoking policies. Topics range from the health\n effects of environmental tobacco smoke to legal issues\n concerning policy implementation.\n \n STRATEGIES TO CONTROL TOBACCO USE IN THE UNITED STATES: A\n BLUEPRINT FOR PUBLIC HEALTH ACTION IN THE 1990s (92-3316:\n Smoking and Control Monograph No. 1). This volume provides\n a summary of what has been learned from 40 years of a public\n health effort against smoking, from the early trial-and-\n error health information campaigns of the 1960s to the NCI\'s\n science-based project, American Stop Smoking Intervention\n Study for Cancer Prevention, which began in 1991. It offers\n reasons why comprehensive smoking control strategies are now\n needed to address the smoker\'s total environment and to\n reduce smoking prevalence significantly over the next\n decade.\n \n \nMATERIALS FOR OUTREACH PROGRAMS\n \n CANCER PREVENTION AND EARLY DETECTION: COMMUNITY OUTREACH\n PROGRAMS FOR HEALTH PROFESSIONALS\n \n Three kits are available for community program planners\n and health professionals to set up local cancer\n prevention and early detection education projects:\n \n DO THE RIGHT THING. . . GET A NEW ATTITUDE ABOUT\n CANCER COMMUNITY OUTREACH PROGRAM. This community\n outreach kit targets Black American audiences. It\n contains materials to help health professionals\n conduct community education programs for black\n audiences. The kit emphasizes the early detection of\n breast cancer by mammography and of cervical cancer by\n the Pap test. It also discusses smoking and\n nutrition. The kit includes helpful program guidance,\n facts, news articles, visuals, and brochures.\n \n HAGALO HOY COMMUNITY OUTREACH PROGRAM. This community\n outreach kit targets Hispanic audiences. It contains\n bilingual and Spanish language materials to help\n health professionals conduct community education\n programs. The materials educate Hispanic audiences\n about early detection of breast cancer by mammography\n\nHICNet Medical Newsletter Page 26\nVolume 6, Number 11 April 25, 1993\n\n and of cervical cancer by Pap tests. The kit also\n discusses smoking and related issues. The kit\n includes helpful guidance, facts, news articles,\n visuals and brochures.\n \n ONCE A YEAR..FOR A LIFETIME COMMUNITY OUTREACH\n MAMMOGRAPHY PROGRAM. This community outreach kit\n targets all women age 40 or over. It supplies\n community program planners and health professionals\n with planning guidance, facts about mammography, news\n articles, visuals and brochures.\n \n \n MAKING HEALTH COMMUNICATION PROGRAMS WORK: A PLANNER\'S GUIDE\n (92-1493). This handbook presents key principles and steps\n in developing and evaluating health communications programs\n for the public, patients, and health professionals. It\n expands upon and replaces "Pretesting in Health\n Communications" and "Making PSAs Work." 131 pages.\n \n SUPPORT MATERIAL FOR COMMUNITY OUTREACH PROGRAMS\n \n The video and slide presentations listed below support the\n mammography outreach programs.\n \n ONCE A YEAR...FOR A LIFETIME VIDEOTAPE. This 5-minute\n VHS videotape uses a dramatic format to highlight the\n important facts about the early detection of breast\n cancer by mammography.\n \n UNA VEZ AL ANO...PARA TODA UNA VIDA VIDEOTAPE. This 27-\n minute Spanish videotape informs Spanish-speaking women\n of the need for medical screening, particularly\n mammography. It explains commonly misunderstood facts\n about breast cancer and early detection. The program, in\n a dramatic format, features Edward James Olmos and\n Cristina Saralegui.\n \n ONCE A YEAR...FOR A LIFETIME SPEAKER\'S KIT (SLIDE SHOW).\n This kit includes 66 full-color slides and a number-\n coded, ready-to-read script suitable for a mammography\n presentation to a large group. It addresses the\n misconceptions prevalent about mammography and urges\n women age 40 and older to get regular mammograms so that\n breast cancer can be detected as early as possible. Kit\n\nHICNet Medical Newsletter Page 27\nVolume 6, Number 11 April 25, 1993\n\n includes a guide, poster, media announcement, news\n feature, flyer, and pamphlets on mammography. This kit\n is available directly by writing to: Modern, 5000 Park\n Street North, St. Petersburg, FL 33709-9989.\n--------- end of part 2 ------------\n\n---\n Internet: david@stat.com FAX: +1 (602) 451-1165\n Bitnet: ATW1H@ASUACAD FidoNet=> 1:114/15\n Amateur Packet ax25: wb7tpy@wb7tpy.az.usa.na\n',
'From: keith@cco.caltech.edu (Keith Allan Schneider)\nSubject: Re: "Cruel"\nOrganization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena\nLines: 39\nNNTP-Posting-Host: punisher.caltech.edu\n\nkmr4@po.CWRU.edu (Keith M. Ryan) writes:\n\n>>I don\'t think so. Although some forms of execution are painful (the electric\n>>chair looks particularly so), I think the pain is relatively short-lived.\n>>Drawing and quartering, on the other hand, looks very painful, and the\n>>victim wouldn\'t die right away (he\'d bleed to death, I\'d imagine).\n>Ah, so a cruel punishment is not just if it is painful, as you \n>origionally stated. It is about long term pain, eg: non short-lived.\n>Why this sudden chance in your stance?\n\nI don\'t think I\'ve changed my stance at all. My original stance was that\na painless execution was not a cruel one. I didn\'t say what would be\nconsidered cruel, only that a painless death wasn\'t. Now, cruelty must\ninvolve some sort of suffering, I believe. I don\'t think someone that gets\nshot in the head or electrocuted really suffers very much. Even a hanging\nprobably produces one sharp instance of pain, but it\'s over so quickly...\n\n>Hmmmmm?\n\nPardon?\n\n>Could it be that a counter example has been made, which renders your \n>previous stance null and void? Why don\'t you admit that your previous stance \n>is incorrect? Or, if you somehow managed to slip up, and misstated your \n>origional stance, why not admit it?\n\nNo. Well, again I stated that a painless death isn\'t cruel, but I don\'t\nthink I stated that all painful executions *are* cruel. I think that some\nare cruel, depending on the nature and duration of the pain.\n\n>By the way, how long is too long?\n\nAnything more than an instant, I guess. Any death by suffocation\nasphyxiation, or blood loss would be cruel, I think (this includes the\ngas chamber, and drawing and quartering). I\'d say that any pain that\nlasts, say, over twenty seconds or so would be too long (but this may\nbe an arbitrary cutoff, I suppose).\n\nkeith\n',
'From: help4@dcs2.dc (len ramirez)\nSubject: Re: Krillean Photography\nNntp-Posting-Host: 147.145.69.20\nReply-To: help4@dcs2.dc\nOrganization: LSI Logic Corporation\nLines: 2\n\nvery good.\n\n',
'From: dsg@ecrc.de (Douglas S. Greer)\nSubject: Research Positions in 3D Graphics, Munich, Germany\nOriginator: dsg@houdini\nReply-To: dsg@ecrc.de (Douglas S. Greer)\nOrganization: European Computer-Industry Research Centre, Munich\nLines: 36\n\n\nEUROPEAN COMPUTER RESEARCH CENTRE\n\nResearch Positions in 3D Graphics\n\nECRC is currently expanding its research staff in three-dimensional\ngraphics. We are looking for highly qualified researchers with a PhD in\ncomputer science and a proven ability to conduct highly innovative\nresearch. Preference will be given to candidates who have strong\nexperience in developing and implementing algorithms for\nthree-dimensional graphics, visualization and user interaction. We\npresently have positions available for both experienced researchers and\nrecent graduates. Candidates with especially strong backgrounds may be\nconsidered for positions as visiting scientists or for Ph.D. student\nresearch positions.\n\nThe European Computer-Industry Research Centre is located in Munich,\nGermany with English as the working language. The centre is funded by a\nconsortium of major computer companies, with a mission to pursue\nresearch in fundamental areas of computer science. Active areas of\nresearch include visualization and user interfaces, distributed\ncomputing, parallelism, deductive systems and databases. The center\nemploys 45 researchers of 21 different nationalities.\n\nThe small but rapidly growing graphics group is currently investigating\nnew methods for three-dimensional human-computer interaction and the\nintegration of computer vision and computer graphics technology. The\ncenter has extensive computing facilities which includes Sun\nworkstations, Apple Macintoshes, a well equipped graphics laboratory and\nnetwork access to super-computer facilities.\n\nECRC offers competitive salaries and excellent benefits. For immediate\nconsideration, send a written application with curriculum vitae,\ntelephone number, e-mail address, and references to: Douglas Greer, ECRC\nGmbH, Arabellastrasse 17, D--8000 Munich 81, Germany\n\n',
"From: creps@lateran.ucs.indiana.edu (Stephen A. Creps)\nSubject: Re: Question about Virgin Mary\nOrganization: Indiana University\nLines: 14\n\nIn article <May.5.02.53.08.1993.28877@athos.rutgers.edu> ddavis@cass.ma02.bull.com (Dave Davis) writes:\n>\tSince Mary was free from 'original sin' she \n>\tdid not exactly die: 'at the end of her life'\n>\t(as the dogmatic prounouncement says) she \n>\twas assumed into heaven.\n\n The dogma of the Assumption does not state whether or not Mary died a\nphysical death before being taken into Heaven. Catholics are free to\nbelieve what they wish, whether it be that she was taken still alive, or\nafter having died. I lean somewhat toward the latter myself.\n\n-\t-\t-\t-\t-\t-\t-\t-\t-\t-\nSteve Creps, Indiana University\ncreps@lateran.ucs.indiana.edu\n",
'From: todd@nickel.laurentian.ca\nSubject: Re: Homosexuality issues in Christiani\nOrganization: Laurentian University\nLines: 13\n\nwhitsebd@nextwork.rose-hulman.edu (Bryan Whitsell) writes,\n\n> I see no other way of interpreting them other than homosexuyality\n> being wrong. Please tell me how these verses can be interpreted in\n> any other way. I read them and the surrounding text.\n\nBut that is exactly what I was asking. If the Homosexual community (is that\nthe proper term?) has decided that Christianity is not against Homosexual \nbehaviour but rather condones it then how do they interpret these verses. I\nguess what I am really looking for is a "homosexual" response.\n\nTodd...\n \n',
'From: REXLEX@fnal.gov\nSubject: ARSENOKOITAI: Scroggs (#3)\nOrganization: FNAL/AD/Net\nLines: 199\n\n[cont. Dr. James DeYoung; #3]\n\nR. Scroggs\n\n Robin Scroggs has built upon the discussion of his predecessors and\nsuggested a new twist to the word. Scroggs believes that arsenokoitai is a\n"Hellenistic Jewish coinage, perhaps influenced by awareness of rabbinic\nterminology." The term is derived from Lev 18"22 & 20:13 where the LXX\njuxtaposes the two words arsenos ("male") and koiten ("bed"), and represents\nthe Hebrew miskab zabar ("lying with a male"). Yet he believes that Paul did\nnot originate the term, but borrowed it from "circles of Hellenistic Jews\nacquainted with rabbinic discussions" (180 n.14). It was invented to avoid\n"contact with the usual Greek terminology" (108). If this is true, Scroggs\nobserves, it explains why the word does not appear in Greco-Roman discussions\nof pederasty and why later patristic writers avoided it. It was meaningless to\nnative-speaking Greeks (108).\n\n Scroggs takes the second part as the active word and the first word as the\nobject of the second part, thus differing from Boswell\'s "learned discussion"\n(107). Yet Scroggs understands the general meaning of "one who lies with a\nmale" to have a very narrow reference. With the preceding malokoi (I Cor 6:9),\nwhich Scroggs interprets as "the effeminate call-boy," arsenokoitai is the\nactive partner "who keeps the malakos of the \'mistress\' or who hires him on\noccasion to satisfy his sexual desires" (108). Hence arsenokoitai does not\nrefer to homosexuality in general, to female homosexuality, or to the generic\nmodel of pederasty. It certainly cannot refer to the modern gay model, he\naffirms (109).\n This is Scrogg\'s interpretation of the term in I Tim 1:10 also. The\ncombination of pornoi ("fornicators"), arsenokoitai and andrapodistai ("slave\ndealers") refers to "male prostitutes, males who lie [with them], and slave\ndealers [who procure them]" (120). It again refers to that specific form of\npederasty "which consisted of the enslaving of boys as youths for sexual\npurposes, and the use of these boys by adult males" (121). Even "serious\nminded pagan authors" condemned this form of pederasty. He then uses these\ninstances of arsenokoitai in I Cor and I Tim to interpret the apparently\ngeneral condemnation of both female and male homosexuality in Rom 1. \nConsequently Paul "Must have had, could only have had pederasty in mind" (122).\nWe cannot know what Paul would have said about the "contemporary model of\nadult/adult mutuality in same sex relation ships" (122).\n\n In relating these terms to the context and to contemporary ethical\nconcerns, Scroggs emphasizes the point that the specific items in the list of\nvices in I Cor 6 have no deliberate, intended meaning in Paul. The form and\nfunction of the catalogue of vices are traditional and stereotyped. Any\nrelationship between an individual item in the list and the context was usually\nnonexistent. He concludes that Paul "does not care about any specific item in\nthe lists" (104). \n\n Both on the basis of the meaning of the terms and of the literary\nphenomenon of a "catalogue of vices," Scroggs argues that the Scriptures are\n"irrelevant and provide no help in the heated debate today" (129). The "model\nin today\'s Christian homosexual community is so different from the model\nattacked by the NT" that "Biblical judgments against homosexuality are not\nrelevant to today\'s debate. They should no longer be used in denominational\ndiscussions about homosexuality, should in no way be a weapon to justify\nrefusal of ordination. . . " (127).\n\n REACTIONS TO THE NEW INTERPRETATIONS OF ARSENOKOITAI\n\nD. Wright\n\n In more recent years the positions of Bailey, Boswell, and Scroggs have\ncome under closer scrutiny. Perhaps the most critical evaluation of Boswell\'s\nview is that by David Wright. In his thorough article, Wright points out\nseveral shortcomings of Boswell\'s treatment of arsenokoitai. He faults\nBoswell for failing to cite, or citing inaccurately, all the references to Lev\n18:22 and 20:13 in the church fathers, such as Eusebius, the "Apostolic\nConstitutions," Clement of Alexandria, Tertullian and Origen (127-28). \nBoswell has not considered seriously enough the possibility that the term\nderives either its form or its meaning from the Leviticus passages (129). This\nis significant, for if the term is so derived, it clearly refutes Boswell\'s\nclaim that the first half of the word (arseno-) denotes not the object but the\ngender of the second half (-koitai). The LXX must mean "a male who sleeps with\na male," making arseno- the object.\n\n Wright also faults Boswell\'s claims regarding linguistic features of the\nterm, including suggested parallels (129). Though Boswell claims that\ncompounds with arseno- employ it objectively and those with arreno- employ it\nas an adjective, Wright believes that the difference between the two is merely\none of dialectical diversity: "No semantic import attaches to the difference\nbetween the two forms" (131). Wright believes that in most compounds in which\nthe second half is a verb or has a verbal force, the first half denotes its\nobject and where "the second part is substantival, the first half denotes its\ngender" (132). \n\n It is with Boswell\'s treatment of the early church fathers that Wright\ntakes special issue, because the former has failed to cite all the sources. \nFor example, Aristides\' Apology (c. AD 138) probably uses arrenomaneis,\nandrobaten, and arsenokoitias all with the same basic meaning of male\nhomosexuality (133), contrary to Boswell\'s discussion. Boswell fails to cite\nHippolytus (Refut. Omn. Haer. 5:26:22-23) and improperly cites Eusebius and the\nSyriac writer Bardensanes. The latter uses Syriac terms that are identical to\nthe Syriac of I Cor 6:9 and I Tim 1:10 (133-34). \n\n Next Wright shows how the early church fathers use arsenokoitai in\nparallel with paidophthoria referring to male homosexuality with teenagers, the\ndominant form of male homosexuality among the Greeks (134). Sometimes this\nparallelism occurs in the threefold listings of moicheia ("adultery"), porneia\n("fornication"), and paidophthoria, with arsenokoitai replacing paidophthoris\n(136). Clement of Alexandria in Protr. 10:108:5 cites the second table of the\nTen Commandments as "You shall not kill, ou moicheuseis ("you shall not commit\nadultery"), ou paidophthoreseis ("you shall not practice homosexuality with\nboys"), you shall not steal. . ." (150 n. 43).\n\n Another occurrence of arsenokoitein ("commit homosexuality") exists in the\nSibylline Oracles 2:71-73. It may be, Wright observes, that the word was\ncoined by a Jewish pre-Christian writer in a Hellenistic setting represented by\nOr.Sib., book 2 (137-38).\n\n Wright also discusses uses of arsenokoitai in Rhetorius (6th c.) who drew\nupon the first century AD writer Teucer, in Macarius (4th-5th c.), and in John\nthe Faster (d. 595) (139-40). The last in particular bears the idea of\nhomosexual intercourse, contrary to Boswell.\n\n Wright next replies to Boswell\'s contention that the term would not be\nabsent "from so much literature about homosexuality if that is what it denoted\n(140-41). Wright points out that it should not be expected in writers prior to\nthe first century AD since it did not exist before then, that the Greeks used\ndozens of words and phrases to refer to homosexuality, that some sources (e.g.\nDidache) show no acquaintance with Paul\'s letters or deliberately avoid citing\nScripture, and that Boswell neglects citing several church fathers (140-41). \n\n Boswell\'s treatment of Chrysostom in particular draws Wright\'s attention\n(141-44). Boswell conspicuously misrepresents the witness of Chrysostom,\nomitting references and asserting what is patently untrue. Chrysostom gives a\nlong uncompromising and clear indictment of homosexuality in his homily on Rom\n1:26. Boswell has exaggerated Chrysostom\'s infrequent use of the term. Wright\nobserves that Boswell has "signally failed to demonstrate any us of\narsenokoites etc. in which it patently does not denote male homosexual\nactivity" (144). It is infrequent because of its relatively technical nature\nand the availability of such a term as paidophthoria that more clearly\nspecified the prevailing form of male homosexuality in the Greco-Roman world. \n\n Wright also surveys the Latin, Syriac, and Coptic translations of I Tim\nand I Cor. All three render arsenokoitai with words that reflect the meaning\n"homosexual" i.e., they understand arseno- as the object of the second half of\nthe word (144-45). None of these primary versions supports Boswell\'s limited\nconclusion based on them.\n\n Wright concludes his discussion with a few observations about the\ncatalogues of vices as a literary form. He believes that such lists developed\nin late Judaism as Hellenistic Jews wrote in clear condemnation of\nhomosexuality in the Greek world. This paralleled the increased concern on the\npart of moral philosophers over homosexual indulgence. The term came into\nbeing under the influence of the LXX (145) so that writers spoke "generally of\nmale activity with males rather than specifically categorized male sexual\nengagement with paides" (146). If arsenokoitai and paidophthoria were\ninterchangeable, it is because the former encompassed the latter (146).\n\n In summary, Wright seeks to show that arsenokoitai is a broad term meaning\nhomosexuality and arises with Judaism. The views of Boswell, Scroggs, and\nothers who limit the term to "active male prostitutes" or pederasty are without\nsignificant support from linguistic and historical studies. \n\n[Next: the questioning of Wrights position by William Peterson. After that, we\nget into the "good" stuff of historical & linguistic studies. THis will\ninclude "Symposium" by Plato. If there is any doubt as to the modern\nunderstanding of homosexuality being understood or contemmplated at the time of\nPaul, this will certainly clear things up. Also we will review Paul\'s use of\nLev18-20 in the NT and how, as for him, 1) the Law was fulfilled, but not done\naway with, 2) Lev 18-20 was the universal and the following chapters the\ngeneral. Those who put forth that the OT no longer holds true today in our\nculture, should stick around for this one.]\n___________________________\n13 R. Scroggs, THe New Testament and Homosexuality (Phil: 1983) 86, 107-8. \nIndependently we came to the same conclusion. Apparently the connection is\nmade in E.A. Sophocles, Greek Lexicon of the Roman & Byzantine Periods (from\n146BC to AD 1100).\n14 See discussion, 101-4. He says the same thing about Paul\'s language in\nRom 1:26-27 (128). But this is doubtful. See the more cautious words of P.\nZaas, "I Cor 6.9ff: Was Homosexuality Condoned in the Corinthian Church? SBLASP\n17 (1979):205-12. He observes that the words moixai, malakoi, and arsenokoitai\nwere part of Jewish anti-Gentile polemic. Yet Paul\'s wors at the end of the\nvice list, "and such were some of you," indicate that "Paul is addressing real\nor potential abuses of his ethical message, not citing primitive tradition by\nrote" (210). Wright disputes Zaas\' attempt to associate the term with idolatry\n(147).\n15 On Boswell\'s treatment of Rom 1:26-7, the article by R.B. Hays, "Relations\nNatural and Unnatural" A Response to John Boswell\'s Exegesis of Romans 1," JRE\n14/1 (Spring 1986): 184-215, is an excellent critique.\n16 D.F. Wright, "Homosexuals or Prostitutes? The Meaning of ARSENOKOITAI (I\nCor 6:9, I Tim 1:10), VC 38 (1984):125-53.\n17 In an unpublished paper, Henry Mendell, "ARSENOKOITAI: Boswell on Paul,"\neffectively refutres Boswell\'s claims regarding the philology of arsenokoitai. \nHe finds the meaning to be general, "a male who has sex with a male" (4-11). \n18 Wright\'s endnotes (148-49) list additional sources in the church fathers.\n19 We also have noticed the same tendency by Boswell to fail to cite all the\nreferences to Sodom and sodomy in the Apocrypha and Pseudepigrapha. See J.B.\nDeYoung, "A Critique of Prohomosexual Interpretations of the OT Apocrypha and\nPseudepigrapha," BSac 146/588 (1990):437-53.\n20 In light of the claim made by Boswell that the infrequency of arsenokoitai\npoints to a meaning lacking homosexual significance, Wright asks pertinently\n"why neither Philo nor Josephus use paidofthoria, nor Josephus paiderastia,\nand why . . Clement did not use the latter and Chrysostom the former?" (152 n.\n71) In a more recent article, "Homosexuality: The Relevance of the Bible," EvQ\n61 (1989):291-300, Wright reiterates these same points. Paul shows a\n"remarkable originality" in extending the OT ethic to the church (300).\n\n \n',
'From: kcochran@nyx.cs.du.edu (Keith "Justified And Ancient" Cochran)\nSubject: Re: <Political Atheists?\nX-Disclaimer: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University\n\tof Denver for the Denver community. The University has neither\n\tcontrol over nor responsibility for the opinions of users.\nOrganization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept.\nLines: 44\n\nIn article <1r5e1vINNkn@gap.caltech.edu> keith@cco.caltech.edu (Keith Allan Schneider) writes:\n>kcochran@nyx.cs.du.edu (Keith "Justified And Ancient" Cochran) writes:\n>\n>>>>Wait. Are we talking about ethics or morals here?\n>>>Is the distinction important?\n>>Yes.\n>\n>Well, make it.\n\nEthics deal with individuals. Morals deal with groups.\n\n>>>Well, our moral system seems to mimic the natural one, in a number of ways.\n>>Please describe these "number of ways" in detail. Then explain the any\n>>contradictions that may arise.\n>\n>Just look at how human behavior mimics animal behavior. I couldn\'t even\n>begin to list all of the similarities. Many of the dissimilarities are due\n>to our high intelligence.\n\nPlease describe these "number of ways" in detail. Then explain any\ncontradictions that may arise.\n\n>>>I don\'t know. What is wrong? Is it possible for humans to survive for\n>>>a long time in the wild? Yes, it\'s possible, but it is difficult. Humans\n>>>are a social animal, and that is a cause of our success.\n>>Define "difficult".\n>\n>I don\'t understand what you don\'t understand.\n\nThe sentence, "Yes, it\'s possible, but it is difficult." Humans survived\n"in the wild" for hundreds of thousands of years.\n\n>>>No. As noted earlier, lack of mating (such as abstinence or homosexuality)\n>>>isn\'t really destructive to the system. It is a worst neutral.\n>>So if every member of the species was homosexual, this wouldn\'t be destructive\n>>to the survival of the species?\n>\n>Most animals that exhibit homosexuality are actually bisexual.\n\nAnswer the question, Keith. Is homosexuality detrimental to the survival\nof the species?\n--\n=kcochran@nyx.cs.du.edu | B(0-4) c- d- e++ f- g++ k(+) m r(-) s++(+) t | TSAKC=\n=My thoughts, my posts, my ideas, my responsibility, my beer, my pizza. OK???=\n',
"From: sjg@maths.warwick.ac.uk (Susannah Gort)\nSubject: Allergies and stuff (Was: Is MSG sensitivity superstition?)\nNntp-Posting-Host: severn\nOrganization: Maths Institute, Warwick University, UK.\nLines: 37\n\n \n> UNLESS I plan on getting sick - I won't eat the stuff without my\n> Seldane. And did I ever learn to read labels.\n\n> - it might not please a medical researcher - but it pleased my own\n> personal physician enough for him to give me allergy medicine \n \n-Allergy medicine, huh? Is this just to get rid of the resultant migraine or\nwhatever, or does it actually suppress allergic reactions? (i.e. like an\nantihistamine does?) As far as doctors over here are concerned, if you slip up\nand eat something you're allergic to (even if they won't test you to tell you\nwhat to avoid) then tough; if a _cheap_ medicine will alleviate your symptoms,\nthen fine, otherwise you just suffer. One doctor did prescribe me imigran (costs\nthe NHS #48 for 6 tablets) after having to rehydrate me because I'd been throwing\nup for four solid days and couldn't even drink water - but I got taken off it\nagain when I moved and had to change doctors. Reasoning: they did not know what\nthe side-effects were because it was new. OK, fine - but it has passed the\nsafety tests to get on the prescription list, and anyway I was prepared to take\nthe risk to have quality of life now. The only alternatives I have is to get it\nprescribed privately, which I cannot afford, or to pay a private allergy\nspecialist to test me and tell me what to avoid. I am fairly certain I am\nallergic to more than one chemical additive, as a lot of things I can't eat have\nnothing in common except things I know are safe, so testing myself isn't really\nan option; there are too many permutations.\n\n> I'm not saying I NEVER consume ANYTHING with MSG. I've noticed that I\n> have a certain tolerance level - like a (small) bag of bbq chips once\n> a month or so it not a problem - but that same bag of chips will\n> bother me if I also had chicken bouillon yesterday and lunch at one of\n> the Chinese restaurants the day before. \n\nYes, I've noticed that - and I can work it up by eating just under the tolerance\nlevel fairly regularly. If I don't eat anything except home cooking for a month\nor so I lose it and have to work it up from scratch... a bad experience. Now I\nknow what the early-warning symptoms are, though, I can usually tell whether I am\nallergic to food before I've eaten too much of it... usually...\n\n",
"From: rind@enterprise.bih.harvard.edu (David Rind)\nSubject: Re: Candida(yeast) Bloom, Fact or Fiction\nOrganization: Beth Israel Hospital, Harvard Medical School, Boston Mass., USA\nLines: 22\nNNTP-Posting-Host: enterprise.bih.harvard.edu\n\nIn article <1993Apr26.174538.1@vms.ocom.okstate.edu>\n banschbach@vms.ocom.okstate.edu writes:\n>oxygen(just like it does in the vagina). As much stuff as there is in the \n>lay press about L. acidophilus and vaginal yeast infections, I'm really \n>amazed that someone has not done a clinical trial yet to check it out.\n\nI've mentioned this study a couple of times now: Ingestion of yogurt\ncontaining Lactobacillus acidophilus as prophylaxis for candidal\nvaginitis, Annals of Internal Medicine, 3/1/92 116(5):353-7. Do you\nhave a problem with the study because they used yogurt rather than\ncapsules of lactobacillus (even though it had positive results)?\n\nThe study was a crossover trial of daily ingestion of 8 ounces of\nyogurt. There was a marked decrease in infections while women were\ningesting the yogurt. Problems with the study included very small\nnumbers (33 patients enrolled) and many protocol violations (only\n21 patients were analyzed). Still, the difference in rates of infection\nbetween the two groups was so large that the study remains fairly\nbelievable.\n-- \nDavid Rind\nrind@enterprise.bih.harvard.edu\n",
"From: oldman@coos.dartmouth.edu (Prakash Das)\nSubject: Re: Is MSG sensitivity superstition?\nArticle-I.D.: dartvax.C60KrL.59t\nOrganization: Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH\nLines: 19\n\nIn article <1993Apr20.173019.11903@llyene.jpl.nasa.gov> julie@eddie.jpl.nasa.gov (Julie Kangas) writes:\n>\n>As for how foods taste: If I'm not allergic to MSG and I like\n>the taste of it, why shouldn't I use it? Saying I shouldn't use\n>it is like saying I shouldn't eat spicy food because my neighbor\n>has an ulcer.\n\nJulie, it doesn't necessarily follow that you should use it (MSG or\nsomething else for that matter) simply because you are not allergic\nto it. For example you might not be allergic to (animal) fats, and\nlike their taste, yet it doesn't follow that you should be using them\n(regularly). MSG might have other bad (or good, I am not up on \nknowledge of MSG) effects on your body in the long run, maybe that's\nreason enough not to use it. \n\nAltho' your example of the ulcer is funny, it isn't an\nappropriate comparison at all.\n\n-Prakash Das\n",
'Subject: Help with antidepressants requested.\nFrom: blubird@penguin.equinox.gen.nz (Gordon Taylor)\nDistribution: world\nOrganization: Private household, Christchurch, New Zealand\nLines: 28\n\nHello all,\n\n There is a small problem a friend of mine is experiencing and I \nwould appreciate any help at all with it.\n\nMy friend has been diagnosed as having a severe case of depression requiring \nantidepressants for a cure. The main problem is the side effects of these. \nSo far she has been prescribed Prozac, Aurorix, and tryptanol all with \ndifferent but unbearable side effects.\n\nThe Prozac gave very bad anxiety/jitters and insomina, it was impossible to \nsit still for more than a minute or so.\n\nThe Aurorix whilst having a calming effect, all feelings were lost and the \nbody co-ordination was similar to a drunken person. Her brain was clouded \nover.\n\nThe tryptanol gave tremors in the legs and panic attacks along with unco- \nordination occurred. She did not know what she was doing as her brain was \n"closed down".\n\nHas anyone had similar problems and/or have any suggestions as to the next \nstep?\n\nThankyou in advance.\n\nGordon Taylor\nE-mail: blubird@penguin.equinox.gen.nz\n',
'From: geoff@poori.East.Sun.COM (Geoff Arnold @ Sun BOS - R.H. coast near the top)\nSubject: Re: Who has read Rushdie\'s _The Satanic Ve\nOrganization: SunSelect\nLines: 15\nDistribution: world\nReply-To: geoff@poori.East.Sun.COM\nNNTP-Posting-Host: poori.east.sun.com\n\nIn article 1r1cl7INNknk@bozo.dsinc.com, perry@dsinc.com (Jim Perry) writes:\n>Anyway, since I seem to be the only one following this particular line\n>of discussion, I wonder how many of the rest of the readership have\n>read this book? What are your thoughts on it? \n\nI read it. I found it wonderful. For some reason (no flames,\nplease), I was reminded of Hemingway, Carl Orff and Van Gogh (not\nall at once, though).\n\n---\nGeoff Arnold, PC-NFS architect, Sun Select. (geoff.arnold@East.Sun.COM)\n--------------------------------------------------+-------------------\n"What if they made the whole thing up? | "The Great Lie" by\n Four guys, two thousand years ago, over wine..." | The Tear Garden\n\n',
'From: jenk@microsoft.com (Jen Kilmer)\nSubject: Re: If There Were No Hell\nOrganization: Microsoft Corporation\nLines: 40\n\nIn article <May.7.01.07.10.1993.13776@athos.rutgers.edu> mdw@cbnewsg.cb.att.com (mark.d.wuest) writes:\n>In article <May.5.02.51.25.1993.28737@athos.rutgers.edu> shellgate!llo@uu4.psi.com (Larry L. Overacker) writes:\n>>Q: If you knew beyond all doubt that hell did not exist and that\n>> unbelievers simply remained dead, would you remain a Christian?\n\nInteresting question, esp since I remember *wishing* with all\nmy heart that this *were* true so that I wouldn\'t have to be a \n"good Christian" anymore. "Christianity" was terribly hard, the\nonly reward was Heaven and (maybe, sometimes, if I was really\ngood) acceptance; I wanted a way out.\n\n>If you knew this "beyond all doubt", then you would be foolish to be\n>a disciple of a man who claimed it did exist. The truth is, you can\n>not be Jesus\' disciple and disagree with him at the same time, not\n>allowing him to be your "Lord".\n\nWhat Jesus has done for me since I found Him (some 6 months ago) \nI do not want to lose. Period. \n\nThat said, I originally interpreted the What-If as "if Christ\nnever mentioned Sheol and weeping and gnashing of teeth, if\nChrist preached that those who did not follow him died and stayed\ndead and at that point forever ceased to exist...."\n\n>>....Fear-based religion is not a faith-relationship with the\n>>One Who made us all. I follow Christ because it\'s a great way\n>>to LIVE life. And I could care less what really happens after\n>>I die. .....\n>\n>So is being a Buddhist a great way to live life. I\'m not converting,\n>though.\n\nI believe that we can only be complete through Christ. \nDo you think that Buddhists can also be complete?\n\n-jen\n\n-- \n\n#include <stdisclaimer> // jenk@microsoft.com // msdos testing\n',
"From: bil@okcforum.osrhe.edu (Bill Conner)\nSubject: Re: free moral agency\nNntp-Posting-Host: okcforum.osrhe.edu\nOrganization: Okcforum Unix Users Group\nX-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL9]\nDistribution: na\nLines: 30\n\nMaddi Hausmann (madhaus@netcom.com) wrote:\n\n: But how do we know that you're representing the REAL Christians?\n: ;-)\n\n: Bill, you're an asshole. Get lost.\n\nMaddi,\n\nI see that you still can't grasp the obvious, is it because your are devious\nby nature, or can you only find fault with an argument by\nmisrepresenting it?\n\nI plainly said that I was stating the Christian position as I\nunderstand it, I did not say whether I agree with it since my point\nwas that the only flaws in that position are those atheists invent.\nI have never claimed to be an expert on anything and especially\nChristianity, but I have made it an object of pretty intense study\nover the years, so I feel qualified to discuss what its general\npropositions are.\n\nWhat offends you is that I have exposed the distortions and\nmisrepresentations of Christianity you contrive and then rail against,\n(which seems more like the classical strawman dodge than what I said)\nThis leaves you with nothing but to attack but me. As usual, you\navoid the larger issues by picking away at the insignificant stuff, why not\nfind one particular thing in my post that we can discuss, or can you\neven tell me what the issues are?\n\nBill\n",
'From: u2i02@seq1.cc.keele.ac.uk (RJ Pomeroy)\nSubject: Re: Catholic doctrine of predestination\nLines: 36\n\nFrom article <May.13.02.28.48.1993.1471@geneva.rutgers.edu>, by creps@lateran.ucs.indiana.edu (Stephen A. Creps):\n> The Catholic doctrine of predestination does not exclude free will in\n> any way. Since God knows everything, He therefore knows everything that\n> is going to happen to us. We have free will, and are able to change\n> what happens to us. However, since God knows everything, He knows all\n> the choices we will make "in advance" (God is not subject to time). Too\n> often arguments pit predestination against free will. We believe in\n> both.\n\nJust a little issue of semantics:\n\nWould it not be better, then to call it "pre-determination"?!\n\n--\n\n RRRRR OO BBBBB :\n R R OO OO B B :\n R R OO OO B BB : Robert Pomeroy\n R RR O O B B :\n RRRR O O BBBBB : u2i02@keele.ac.uk\n R R O O B B :\n R R OO OO B BB : 1993\n R R OO OO B B :\n R R OO BBBBB :\n\n\n\n My address }\n during } Hawthorns Hall, KEELE, Staffordshire, ST5 5AE. England.\n term-time. }\n\n\n ________\n / \\ /\n < Jn3:16 X\n \\________/ \\\n',
'From: frank@D012S658.uucp (Frank O\'Dwyer)\nSubject: Re: Genocide is Caused by Atheism\nOrganization: Siemens-Nixdorf AG\nLines: 32\nDistribution: world\nNNTP-Posting-Host: d012s658.ap.mchp.sni.de\n\nIn article <1r2kt7$6e1@fido.asd.sgi.com> livesey@solntze.wpd.sgi.com (Jon Livesey) writes:\n#In article <1qugin$9tf@horus.ap.mchp.sni.de>, frank@D012S658.uucp (Frank O\'Dwyer) writes:\n#|> In article <1qkogg$k@fido.asd.sgi.com> livesey@solntze.wpd.sgi.com (Jon Livesey) writes:\n#|>\n#|> #And in that area, what you care about is whether someone is sceptical,\n#|> #critical and autonomous on the one hand, or gullible, excitable and\n#|> #easily led on the other.\n#|> \n#|> Indeed I may. And one may be an atheist and also be gullible, excitable\n#|> and easily led.\n#|> \n#|> #I would say that a tendency to worship tyrants and ideologies indicates\n#|> #that a person is easily led. Whether they have a worship or belief \n#|> #in a supernatural hero rather than an earthly one seems to me to be\n#|> #beside the point.\n#|> \n#|> Sure. But whether or not they are atheists is what we are discussing,\n#|> not whether they are easily led. \n#\n#Not if you show that these hypothetical atheists are gullible, excitable\n#and easily led from some concrete cause. In that case we would also\n#have to discuss if that concrete cause, rather than atheism, was the\n#factor that caused their subsequent behaviour.\n\nI\'m not arguing that atheism causes such behaviour - merely that\nit is not relevant to the definition of atheism, which is \'lack of belief in \ngods\'. \n\n\n-- \nFrank O\'Dwyer \'I\'m not hatching That\'\nodwyer@sse.ie from "Hens", by Evelyn Conlon\n',
"From: resinfo@resinfo.demon.co.uk (resinfo)\nSubject: Investigating Phenylanine?\nReply-To: resinfo@resinfo.demon.co.uk\nOrganization: Demon\nLines: 10\nX-Mailer: Simple NEWS 1.90 (ka9q DIS 1.19)\n\nResinfo (research and information) is currently seeking contact\n_IN_ the United Kingdom with researchers of 'phenylanine', or is\nthis amino acid uninspiring?\n\nResinfo is not a regular subscriber to sci.med due to the \nexcessive load of data and regrettably, our limited ability\nto monitor. It would therefore be appreciated if replies\ncould be sent direct to;\nresinfo@resinfo.demon.co.uk\nusing the ref: mr t.a.t.\n",
'From: banschbach@vms.ocom.okstate.edu\nSubject: Re: Kidney Stones\nOrganization: OSU College of Osteopathic Medicine\nLines: 58\nNntp-Posting-Host: vms.ocom.okstate.edu\n\nIn article <1993Apr29.003406.55029@ux1.cts.eiu.edu>, cfaks@ux1.cts.eiu.edu (Alice Sanders) writes:\n> A student told me today that she has been diagnosed with kidney stones, a\n> cyst on one kidney, and a kidney infection. She was upset because her\n> condition had been misdiagnosed since last fall, and she has been ill all\n> this time. During her most recent doctor\'s appointment at her parents\'\n> HMO clinic, she said that about FORTY! x-rays were made of her kidney.\n> When she asked why so many x-rays were being made, she was told by a\n> technician that they need to see the area from different views, but she\n> says that about five x-rays were made from EACH angle. She couldn\'t help\n> feeling that something must be wrong with the procedure or something. She\n> is a pre-med student and feels she could have understood what was\n> happening if someone would have explained. When nobody would, she got\n> worried.\n> \tAlso, she is told that thre are 300! surgery patients ahead of her\n> and that they cannot do surgery until August or so. It is now April...\n> She is supposed to rest a lot and drink fluids. But she has to go to\n> classes. She wonders why they have given her no medicine. She plans to\n> call back her doctor\'s office / clinic and try to get answers to these\n> questions. But I told her I would also write in to sci.med and see what I\n> could find out about why there were so many x-rays and whether it seems\n> o.k. to wait in line 3 or more months for surgery for something like this\n> or whether she should be looking elsewhere for her care. She does plan to\n> get a second opinion, too. \n> \n> \tI will pass info on to her. It never hurts to get information\n> from more than one source. \n> \n> You can e-mail me or post.\n> \n> Thanks.\n> \n> Alice\n\nMy opinion(for what it\'s worth) is that 40 x-rays is *way* too many. \nGuidleines have been set on the number of dental x-rays and chest x-rays \nthat one should have over a given period of time because of all the \nenvironmental factors that can cause cancer in humans, ionizing radiation \nis one of the most potent(splits DNA and causes hydroxyl free radical \nformation in tissue cells). Ultasound(like that used in seeing the fetus \nin the uterus) has been shown to be extremely good at picking up tumors \nin the prostate and gallstones in the gallbladder. But kidney tissue may \nbe too dense for ultrasound to work for kidney stones(any radiologists care \nto comment?).\n\nMost stones will pass(but it\'s a very painful process). Unlike gallstones, \nI don\'t think that there are many drugs that can help "dissolve" the \nkidney stone(which is probably calcium-oxalate). Vitamin C and magnesium \nhave worked in rabbits to remove calcium from calcified plaques in the \naterial wall. I have no idea if a diet change or supplementation could \nspeed up the process of kidney stone passage(but I\'m pretty confident that \na diet change and/or supplementation can prevent a reoccurance). If surgery \nis being contemplated, the stone must be in the kidney tubule. A second \nopinion is a good idea because there are better(less damaging) ways to break \nup the stone if it\'s logged within the kidney(sonic blasts). HMO\'s are \nnotorious for conservative care and long waits for expensvie treatments. \nMy condolences to your friend. \n\nMarty B.\n',
"From: beck@irzr17.inf.tu-dresden.de (Andre Beck)\nSubject: Re: XV problems\nOrganization: Dept. of Computer Science, TU Dresden, Germany.\nLines: 11\nDistribution: world\nReply-To: Andre_Beck@IRS.Inf.TU-Dresden.DE\nNNTP-Posting-Host: irzr17.inf.tu-dresden.de\n\n\nOops, what the hell a crosspost is this ?!\n\nHave a look onto XV-3.00 before saying anything more about it's power.\n\n--\n+-o-+--------------------------------------------------------------+-o-+\n| o | \\\\\\- Brain Inside -/// | o |\n| o | ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ | o |\n| o | Andre' Beck (ABPSoft) mehl: Andre_Beck@IRS.Inf.TU-Dresden.de | o |\n+-o-+--------------------------------------------------------------+-o-+\n",
'From: norris@athena.mit.edu (Richard A Chonak)\nSubject: Re: hate the sin...\nReply-To: norris@mit.edu\nOrganization: l\'organisation, c\'est moi\nLines: 17\n\nIn article <May.16.01.56.47.1993.6695@geneva.rutgers.edu>, wjhovi01@ulkyvx.louisville.edu (Bill Hovingh, LPTS Student) writes:\n|> scott@prism.gatech.edu (Scott Holt) writes:\n|> > "Hate the sin but love the sinner" [...] My question is whether that\n|> > statement is consistent with Christianity. I would think not.\n|> \n|> I\'m very grateful for scott\'s reflections on this oft-quoted phrase. Could\n|> someone please remind me of the Scriptural source for it? \n\nIt\'s not scriptural, but comes from the patristic age, I think:\nsomething about "amare errantem, interficere errorem", which sounds\nmore like "love the errant, slay the error". No doubt someone else \nwill know in particular who minted the phrase. If I had to guess, I\'d\nblame :-) St Augustine, who seems to have had a gift for aphorism.\n\n-- \nRichard Aquinas Chonak, norris@mit.edu\nSometimes, it\'s necessary to _act_ as if you believed.\n',
'From: pfine@mitre.org (Paul Fine)\nSubject: TIFF 6.0\nNntp-Posting-Host: paul-fine.mitre.org\nOrganization: The MITRE Corporation\nLines: 5\n\nI recently read in a book that the TIFF version 6.0 specification was due\nto be released in the spring of 1992. I am interested in finding out about\nthe new features of the TIFF spec (and if it is out). Specifically, I need\nto know if TIFF 6.0 supports VQ decompression and/or image\ntiling.\n',
"From: bai@msiadmin.cit.cornell.edu (Dov Bai-MSI Visitor)\nSubject: Re: Earwax\nOrganization: Mathematical Sciences Institute (MSI)-Cornell University\nLines: 14\nNNTP-Posting-Host: msiadmin.cit.cornell.edu\n\nIn article <lu2defINNac7@news.bbn.com> levin@bbn.com (Joel B Levin) writes:\n>bobm@Ingres.COM (Bob McQueer) writes:\n>|One question I do have - a doctor who flushed out my ears once also advocated\n>|a drop of rubbing alcohol in them afterwards to flush out any remaining\n>|trapped water - said he told swimmers to do this after swimming, too. It\n>|works, but it stings like the devil, so I've always been content to let any\n>|water in my ears from swimming or flushing them out figure out how to get\n>|out by itself if shaking my head a few times won't do the trick. Any\n>|comments?\n\nPerhaps diluting the rubbing alcohol in some water, until you\nfeels comfortable will do the trick ?\n\n\n",
'From: frank@D012S658.uucp (Frank O\'Dwyer)\nSubject: Re: Theism and Fanatism (was: Islamic Genocide)\nOrganization: Siemens-Nixdorf AG\nLines: 84\nNNTP-Posting-Host: d012s658.ap.mchp.sni.de\n\nIn article <16BB6B7CA.I3150101@dbstu1.rz.tu-bs.de> I3150101@dbstu1.rz.tu-bs.de (Benedikt Rosenau) writes:\n|In article <1qv7q5$fn4@horus.ap.mchp.sni.de>\n|frank@D012S658.uucp (Frank O\'Dwyer) writes:\n| \n|>#>#Theism is strongly correlated with irrational belief in absolutes. Irrational\n|>#>#belief in absolutes is strongly correlated with fanatism.\n|>\n|>#>Correlation is not causation. And a belief that absolutes exist is not\n|>#>the same thing as a belief in absolutes, any more than belief in a shortest\n|>#>route from Thurles to Clonmel is the same thing as a knowledge of the\n|>#>Irish roadsystem.\n|>\n|>#Correlation is not necessarily causation. However, as you might have noticed,\n|>#the above allows to conclude that the correlation between religion and fanatism\n|>#is based on common features of religious belief.\n| \n|(Sorry for the long quotes, but I dont see where to cut)\n| \n| \n|>Huh? Are you barking mad?\n|>\n| \n|Hardly.\n| \n| \n|>(1) Theism is not as strongly correlated with fanaticism as you say. PLUS\n|> you could find stronger correlations if you were actually interested\n|> in the truth instead of being as you seeming are, a bigot.\n|>\n| \n|Theism is correlated with fanaticism. I have neither said that all fanatism\n|is caused by theism nor that all theism leads to fanatism. The point is,\n|theism increases the chance of becoming a fanatic. One could of course\n|argue that would be fanatics tend towards theism (for example), but I just\n|have to loook at the times in history when theism was the dominant ideology\n|to invalidate that conclusion that that is the basic mechanism behind it.\n\nIMO, the influence of Stalin, or for that matter, Ayn Rand, invalidates your \nassumption that theism is the factor to be considered. Gullibility, \nblind obedience to authority, lack of scepticism, and so on, are all more \nreliable indicators. And the really dangerous people - the sources of\nfanaticism - are often none of these things. They are cynical manipulators\nof the gullible, who know precisely what they are doing. Now, *some*\nbrands of theism, and more precisely *some* theists, do tend to fanaticism,\nI grant you. To tar all theists with this brush is bigotry, not a reasoned\nargument - and it reads to me like a warm-up for censorship and restriction\nof religious freedom. Ever read Animal Farm?\n\n|>(2) Define "irrational belief". e.g., is it rational to believe that\n|> reason is always useful?\n|>\n| \n|Irrational belief is belief that is not based upon reason. The latter has\n|been discussed for a long time with Charley Wingate. One point is that\n|the beliefs violate reason often, and another that a process that does\n|not lend itself to rational analysis does not contain reliable information.\n\nWell, there is a glaring paradox here: an argument that reason is useful\nbased on reason would be circular, and argument not based on reason would\nbe irrational. Which is it?\n\nThe first part of the second statement contains no information, because\nyou don\'t say what "the beliefs" are. If "the beliefs" are strong theism \nand/or strong atheism, then your statement is not in general true. The\nsecond part of your sentence is patently false - counterexample: an\naxiomatic datum does not lend itself to rational analysis, but is\nassumed to contain reliable information regardless of what process is\nused to obtain it.\n\n|Compared the evidence theists have for their claims to the strength of\n|their demands makes the whole thing not only irrational but antirational.\n\nI can\'t agree with this until you are specific - *which* theism? To\nsay that all theism is necessarily antirational requires a proof which\nI suspect you do not have.\n\n|The affinity to fanatism is easily seen. It has to be true because I believe\n|it is nothing more than a work hypothesis. However, the beliefs say they are\n|more than a work hypothesis.\n\nI don\'t understand this. Can you formalise your argument?\n-- \nFrank O\'Dwyer \'I\'m not hatching That\'\nodwyer@sse.ie from "Hens", by Evelyn Conlon\n',
"From: uabdpo.dpo.uab.edu!gila005 (Stephen Holland)\nSubject: Re: Annual inguinal hernia repair\nOrganization: Gastroenterology - Univ. of Alabama\nLines: 16\n\nIn article <jpc.735692207@avdms8.msfc.nasa.gov>, jpc@avdms8.msfc.nasa.gov\n(J. Porter Clark) wrote:\n[synopsis] Young man with inguianl hernia on one side, repaired, now has\nnew hernia on other side. What gives, he asks? [and he continues...] \n> Of course, my wife thinks it's from sitting for long periods of time at\n> the computer, reading news...\n\nThere is the possibility that there is some degree of constipation causing\nchronic straining which has caused the bowel movements. The classic \nproblems that are supposed to be looked for in someone with a hernia are\nconstipation, chronic cough, colon cancer (and you're not too young for\nthat) and sitting for long periods of time at the computer, reading news.\n\nGood Luck with your surgery!\n\nSteve Holland\n",
"From: lioness@maple.circa.ufl.edu\nSubject: Re: Kubota Kenai/Denali specs\nOrganization: Center for Instructional and Research Computing Activities\nLines: 21\nReply-To: LIONESS@ufcc.ufl.edu\nNNTP-Posting-Host: maple.circa.ufl.edu\n\nIn article <1993Apr28.151652.23080@dsd.es.com>, pmartz@dsd.es.com (Paul Martz) writes:\n|>Does this mean they can either do alpha or stenciling, but not both\n|>simultaneously?\n\nI don't know the answer the to this one, although with 8-bits I would assume\nthat it was one or the other.\n\n|>\n|>> Stereo support\tyes\t\t\tyes\n|>> Other:\t\t\tboth machines will double buffer or do\n|> ^^\n|>> \t\t\t\tstereo output per window. Both have an\n|>> \t\t\t\tauxiliary video output that is RS-170A,\n|>> \t\t\t\tNTSC, and PAL\n|>Same question again, does this mean they can either do double\n|>buffering or stereo, but not both simultaneously?\n\nAccording to the literature, it will do quadruple buffering so that you\ncan have double buffered stereo output.\n\nBrian\n",
"From: rlafolle@apssgi.nswc.navy.mil (Robert D. LaFollette)\nSubject: Image format conversion tool \nOrganization: Naval Surface Warfare Center\nLines: 17\n\nHello,\n\n\tDoes anyone know of an image format conversion tool that will convert a \nraw (8 bit grey scale) image to Gif or Tif format. It would be great if the tool\nran on a PC, was a Windows application, and supported other formats, but I'll be \nhappy with anything that works.\n\n\n\t\tAttn: Code L10MP Robert LaFollette \n\t\tDahlgren Division, Naval Surface Warfare Center\n\t\tDahlgren, VA 22448-5000\n\n\t\t(703)663-4749 autovon 249-4749\n\t\tFAX (703)663-4749\n\t\tEmail rlafoll@duchamp.nswc.navy.mil\n\t\t\trlafoll@128.38.158.43\n\n",
'From: groleau@e7sa.crd.ge.com (Wes Groleau X7574)\nSubject: Re: Discussions on alt.psychoactives\nNntp-Posting-Host: 144.219.40.1\nOrganization: GE Corp R&D Center, Schenectady NY\nLines: 3\n\nRe: serious discussion about drugs vs. "Where can I get a good bong, man?"\n\nWhy not have the group moderated? That would eliminate some of the idiots.\n',
'From: mussack@austin.ibm.com (Christopher Mussack)\nSubject: Re: Dreams and out of body incidents\nLines: 26\n\nEver since I was a kid and learned to tell when I was in a \ndream I have used my dreams for fantasies or working out problems.\nIn my dreams I have done everything from yell at my mom\nto machine-gunning zombies, not to mention myriad sexual\nfantasies. I have deliberately done things that I would never\ndo in real life. I understand the need to control ones\nthoughts, but I always felt that dreams were format free,\nno morals, no ethics, no physical laws, (though sometimes I would \nhave to wake myself up to go to the bathroom.)\n\nIs this an incorrect attitude? Rather than weakening my inhibitions,\nI could argue that I got certain things "out of my system" by \nexperiencing them in dreams. By analyzing a dream I can determine\nif I have a problem with a certain situation, i.e. in a dream\nsomething will be exagerated that I can then contemplate and\nsee if it really bothers me or not.\n\nI can\'t believe that other people don\'t do the same. It seems \nsilly to attach moral significance to dreams.\n\nI think that this is entirely different from out of body\nexperiences, which I have never had.\n\nContradictions welcome.\n\nChris Mussack\n',
'From: badboy@netcom.com (Jay Keller)\nSubject: Sinus Surgery / Septoplasty \nOrganization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)\nLines: 31\n\nMy ENT doctor recommended surgery to fix my sinuses. I have a very deviated\nnasal septum (probably the result at least partially from several fractures).\nOne side has approximately 10-15% of normal flow. Of course I have known this\nfor years but recently discovered that I suffer from chronic sinus infection,\ndiscovered during an MRI after a severe migraine. A CT scan subsequently \nconfirmed the problems in the sinuses.\n\nHe wants to do endoscopic sinus surgery on the ethmoid, maxillary, frontal,\nand sphenoid, along with nasal septoplasty.\n\nHe explained the procedure, and the risks. What I would like to know is if\nthere is anyone out there who can tell me "I had this surgery, and it helped\nme"?\n\n(I\'ve already heard from a couple who said they had it and it didn\'t\nreally help them).\n\nI am a moderately severe asthmatic. ENT doc says large percentage see some\nrelief of their asthma after sinus surgery. Also he said it is not unheard of\nthat migraines go away after chronis sinusitis is relieved.\n\nI am 42.\n\nAny relevant information is appreciated.\n\nRegards,\n\nJay Keller\nSunnyvale, California\nbadboy@netcom.com\n\n',
'From: livesey@solntze.wpd.sgi.com (Jon Livesey)\nSubject: Re: "Cruel" (was Re: <Political Atheists?)\nOrganization: sgi\nLines: 30\nDistribution: world\nNNTP-Posting-Host: solntze.wpd.sgi.com\n\nIn article <1qnpe2INN8b0@gap.caltech.edu>, keith@cco.caltech.edu (Keith Allan Schneider) writes:\n|> livesey@solntze.wpd.sgi.com (Jon Livesey) writes:\n|> \n|> >>They spent quite a bit of time on the wording of the Constitution. \n|> >I realise that this is widely held belief in America, but in fact\n|> >the clause on cruel and unusual punishments, like a lot of the\n|> >rest, was lifted from the English Bill of Rights of 1689.\n|> \n|> Just because the wording is elsewhere does not mean they didn\'t spend\n|> much time on the wording.\n\nIn the part of the posting you have so helpfully deleted, I \npointed out that they used the wording from the English Bill of\nRights apparently *changing* what they understood by it, and I\nasked why then should we, two hundred years later, be bound by\nwhat Keith Allan Schneider *thinks* they understood by it.\n\n|> \n|> >>We have already looked in the dictionary to define the word. Isn\'t \n|> >>this sufficient?\n|> >Since the dictionary said that a lack of mercy or an intent to\n|> >inflict injury or grief counted as "cruel", sure.\n|> \n|> People can be described as cruel in this way, but punishments cannot.\n\nSo one cannot say "a cruel fate"?\n\nYour prevarications are getting increasingly unconvincing, I think.\n\njon.\n',
"From: harvey@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Betty Harvey)\nSubject: Re: Arts&Letters Graphics Editor\nReply-To: harvey@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Betty Harvey)\nOrganization: Carderock Division, NSWC, Bethesda, MD\nLines: 28\n\nIn comp.graphics, menchett@dws012.unr.edu (Peter J Menchetti) writes:\n>Does anyone on this group use this program? It stacks up pretty well to\n>Corel Draw, and since I don't have a CDROM, it was the best buy...\n>\n>Maybe someone would be interested in trading tips and tricks?\n\nYes, I have both Arts & Letters and CorelDraw. I personally like\nArts & Letters better but there are things I like about Arts & Letters\nthat CorelDraw doesn't do an vice-versa. I haven't found the perfect\ngraphics program that does everything yet. \n\nMy favorite feature from CorelDraw is that it imports alot of different\nformats. Arts & Letters does not. I like the thousands of clipart\navailable with Arts & Letters. However, I do find looking them up\nin a book and referencing them by number to be annoying.\n\nOne of my major problems is that there isn't any programs available on\nthe market for the artistically deprived :-). \n\n/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\nBetty Harvey <harvey@oasys.dt.navy.mil> | David Taylor Model Basin\nADP, Networking and Communication Assessment | Carderock Division\n Branch | Naval Surface Warfare\nCode 1221 | Center\nBethesda, Md. 20084-5000 | DTMB,CD,NSWC \n | \n(301)227-3379 FAX (301)227-3343 | \n/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\\\/\\/\n",
'From: texx@ossi.com ("Texx")\nSubject: Re: Need info on Circumcision, medical cons and pros\nOrganization: Open Systems Solutions Inc.\nLines: 53\nNNTP-Posting-Host: nym.ossi.com\n\nmenon@boulder.Colorado.EDU (Ravi or Deantha Menon) writes:\n\n>aezpete@deja-vu.aiss.uiuc.edu () writes:\n\n>>>The penile cancer thing has been *completely* debunked...she must be\n>>>going to school on a South Pacific island. Tell her to check the Journal\n>>>or Urology for circumcision articles. I remember at least 1 on an old\n>>>Jewish man (cut at birth) who developed penile cancer....I mean, if the\n>>>cancer risk was that great, the Europe who have been circumcising like\n>>>crazy, too. Teaching a boy how to keep his cockhead clean is the issue: a\n>>>little proper hygiene goes a long way - Americans are just too hung up on\n>>>the penis to consider cleaning it: that\'s just way too much like\n>>>mastubation. So you have surgical intervention that is basically\n>>>unnecessary.\n\n>>Peter Schlumpf\n>>University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign\n\nAs I recall, it is a statistical anomaly because of the sample involved in the studies.\nI am certain that if it were true the Europeans would be cutting kids right & left.\n\n>First off, use some decent terms if ya don\'t mind. This is sci.med, not\n>alt.sex.\n\n>Secondly, how absolutely bogus to assume that "American\'s are just too hung\n>up on the penis....blah,blah". I think most American\'s don\'t care about\n>anything so comlicated as that. They just think it "looks nicer". Ask \n>a few of them and see what response you get. Others still opt for\n>circumcision due to religious traditions and beliefs. Some think it is\n>easier to clean. Still others do it because "Daddy was".\n\nI think alot do it blindly because "Dad" had it done. But there are many\nwho get bamboozled into it with the bogus cancer thing. Awhile back some\nquack told a friend of mine that it would help prevent AIDS.\n\nYeah...Right! (Sarchasm)\n\n>Dont\' be so naive as to think American\'s are afraid of sexuality. \n\nOh YEAH ?\n\nScene: Navy boot camp\n\nDI:\t\t"Son, you smel awful! Dont you ever clean that thing?"\nRecruit:\t"No Sir !"\nDI:\t\t"Why the hell NOT!"\nRecruit:\t"Your not sposed to touch down there?"\nDI:\t\t"Why ?"\nRecruit:\t"Cause thats the eye of god down there, an\' your not s\'posed to touch it..."\n\nThis did not happen 40 years ago, it happened 2 years ago.\n\nI think Americans are QUITE hung up about sex and the involved plumbing!\n',
'From: jprice@dpw.com (Janice Price)\nSubject: Iridology - Any credence to it???\nLines: 5\n\n\nI saw a printed up flyer that stated the person was a\n"licensed herbologist and iridologist"\nWhat are your opinions?\nHow much can you tell about a person\'s health by looking into their eyes?\n',
'From: dike@scic.intel.com (Charles Dike)\nSubject: Re: Mormon Temples\nOrganization: Intel Corporation, Beaverton, OR\nLines: 44\n\n\n\tFrom: dhammers@pacific.? (David Hammerslag)\n\n\tHow do you (Mormons) reconcile the idea of eternal marriage with \n\tChrist\'s statement that in the resurrection people will neither \n\tmarry nor be given in marriage (Luke, chapt. 20)?\n\nFootnotes in some bibles reference this verse to the Book of Tobit.\nTobit is in the Septuagint. Goodspeed published it in a book called \n"The Apocrypha". Most any bookstore will have this. At any rate, the Jews \nof Christ\'s day had this book. It is a story mostly centered around the\nson of Tobit who was named Tobias. There was a young lady, Sarah, who had \nentered the bridal chamber with seven brothers in succession. The brothers \nall died in the chamber before consumating the marriage.\n\nTobias was entitled to have Sarah for his wife (3:17) because Tobias was\nher only relative and "...she was destined for [Tobias] from the beginning"\n(6:17).\n\nTobias took her to wife and was able to consumate the marriage. The \nseven husbands would not have her as a partner in heaven. That does not \neliminate Tobias, her eighth husband. Tobit is a fun and interesting \nstory to read. It\'s kind of a mythical romance. It\'s a little shorter \nthan Esther.\n\nThe LDS also have scriptures that parallel and amplify Luke 20. Most \nnotably Doctrines and Covenants 132:15-16.\n\n\t"Therefore, if a man marry him a wife in the world, and he marry \n\ther not by me nor by my word, and he covenant with her so long as\n\the is in the world and she with him, their covenant and marriage\n\tare not of force when they are dead, and when they are out of \n\tthe world; therefore, they are not bound by any law when they \n\tare out of the world.\n\n\t"Therefore, when they are out of the world they neither marry nor \n\tare given in marriage; but are appointed angels in heaven, which\n\tangels are ministering servants, to minister for those who are \n\tworthy of a far more, and an exceeding, and an eternal weight of \n\tglory."\n\n \nCordially,\nCharles Dike\n',
"From: u9245669@athmail1.causeway.qub.ac.uk\nSubject: Christianity and repeated lives\nOrganization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway\nLines: 38\n\n>There is a paragraph in the New Testament which in my opinion, clearly makes\n>a positive inference to reincarnation. I don't remember which one it is off of\n>the top of my head, but it basically goes like this: Jesus is talking with the\n>apostles and they ask him why the pharisees say that before the messiah can \n>come Elijah must first come. Jesus replies that Elijah has come, but they did \n>not recognize him. It then says that the apostles perceived that he was refering \n>to John the Baptist. This seems to me to clearly imply reincarnation.\n\nThis was a popular belief in the Judaism of Jesus` time, that Elijah\nwould return again (as he had been taken in to heaven in a chariot and\ndid not actually die). However Jesus was referring to John the\nBaptist not in the sense that Elijah was reincarnated as John\n(remember Elijah didn`t die) but that John was a similar prophet to\nElijah. John was a fiery preacher, he wore sackcloth and wandered\nrough through Israel preaching the coming kingdom. The verses that\ndescribe him (in Mark`s gospel) can be linked to OT references about\nElijah. Hence John was similar to Elijah and Jesus was drawing the\nparallels between the two just as he drew parallels with the Suffering\nServant in Isaiah (and other messianic figures) and himself.\n\nA brief reply but I don`t have time to look up all the relevant stuff.\n\nSuffice to say there is a very strong explanation.\n\n\n\nRick.\n\n________________________________________________________________\n\nRichard Johnston Queen`s University\n73 Malone Road Belfast\nBelfast \nNorthern Ireland \nBT9 6SB \n\nu9245669@athmail1.causeway.qub.ac.uk\n________________________________________________________________\n",
'Subject: EXPERTS ON EDWARD JENNER...LOOK!!!\nFrom: pkwok@eis.calstate.edu (Philip Kwok)\nOrganization: Calif State Univ/Electronic Information Services\nLines: 5\n\nI am a student from San Leandro High school. I am doing a research\nproject for physics and I would like information on Edward Jenner and the\nvaccination for small pox. Any information at all would be greatly\napprectiated. Thank you.\n\n',
'From: plebrun@minf.vub.ac.be (Philippe Lebrun)\nSubject: Re: Pregnency without sex?\nDistribution: eunet\nLines: 20\nKeywords: pregnency sex\n\nIn article <stephen.735806195@mont>, stephen@mont.cs.missouri.edu (Stephen Montgomery-Smith) writes:\n|> When I was a school boy, my biology teacher told us of an incident\n|> in which a couple were very passionate without actually having\n|> sexual intercourse. Somehow the girl became pregnent as sperm\n|> cells made their way to her through the clothes via persperation.\n|> \n|> Was my biology teacher misinforming us, or do such incidents actually\n|> occur?\n\nSperm deposited near the entrance of the vagina has been known to cause\npregnancy, even in the presence of a hymen. I doubt that sperm could make \nit through a layer of cloth then find the right path to a waiting ovum,\nbut it might be possible.\n\nSo, it is possible for a woman to be both virgin and pregnant.\nAlso, some hymens are sufficiently loose to allow near-normal intercourse\nwithout rupturing. The problem when investigating these phenomenae is,\nof course, getting an honest account of what exactly happened.\n\n-philippe\n',
'From: sandvik@newton.apple.com (Kent Sandvik)\nSubject: Age of Reason Was: Who has read Rushdie\'s\nOrganization: Cookamunga Tourist Bureau\nLines: 19\n\nThis is the story of Kent, the archetype Finn, that lives in the \nBay Area, and tried to purchase Thomas Paine\'s "Age of Reason". This\nman was driving around, to Staceys, to Books Inc, to "Well, Cleanlighted\nPlace", to Daltons, to various other places.\n\nWhen he asked for this book, the well educated American book store\nassistants in most placed asked him to check out the thriller section,\nor then they said that his book has not been published yet, but they\nshould receive the book soon. In some places the assistants bluntly\nsaid that they don\'t know of such an author, or that he is not \na well known living author, so they don\'t keep copies of his books.\n\nSuch is the life and times of America, 200+ years after the revolution.\n\n\nCheers,\nKent\n---\nsandvik@newton.apple.com. ALink: KSAND -- Private activities on the net.\n',
"From: plebrun@minf.vub.ac.be (Philippe Lebrun)\nSubject: Re: Frozen shoulder and lawn mowing\nDistribution: eunet\nLines: 15\n\nIn article <1993Apr23.213823.11738@ux1.cts.eiu.edu>, cfaks@ux1.cts.eiu.edu (Alice Sanders) writes:\n|> Ihave had a frozen shoulder for over a year or about a year. It is still\n|> partially frozen, and I am still in physical therapy every week. But the\n|> pain has subsided almost completely. UNTIL last week when I mowed the\n|> lawn for twenty minutes each, two days in a row. I have a push type power\n|> mower. The pain started back up a little bit for the first time in quite\n|> a while, and I used ice and medicine again. Can anybody explain why this\n|> particular activity, which does not seem to stress me very much generally,\n|> should cause this shoulder problem?\n\nYou need to use your shoulder muscles to push the mower. If you haven't been\ndoing much exercise, as I suppose you haven't, then a constant 20 minute\nlong effort can cause stiffness and cramps.\n\n-philippe\n",
"Organization: Arizona State University\nFrom: Eric Davis <ICEND@ASUACAD.BITNET>\nSubject: Re: HELP - 3DS\nLines: 11\n\nIn article <C70zv4.9Hq@ddtopper.Dundee.NCR.COM>, stephenc says:\n>\n>In 3D Studio, is there any way to create refraction, diffraction etc ?\n>\n>I want to simulate such things as glass lenses, bottles etc.\n\nThere might be an IPAS routine that does that,but I can'r be sure. Another\nway to do it is to render the scene without the glass object and save the\nimage. Then assign that image to your glass object as a reflection. It will\ntake a lot of adjusting for position and size of the reflection, but that's\nthe only thing I can think of.\n",
"From: beck@irzr17.inf.tu-dresden.de (Andre Beck)\nSubject: Re: Pov-ray problem / Please Help...\nOrganization: Dept. of Computer Science, TU Dresden, Germany.\nLines: 13\nDistribution: world\nReply-To: Andre_Beck@IRS.Inf.TU-Dresden.DE\nNNTP-Posting-Host: irzr17.inf.tu-dresden.de\n\n\nwhat about\n\nqrttoppm < file.dis | ppmtotga > file.tga\n\n??\n\n--\n+-o-+--------------------------------------------------------------+-o-+\n| o | \\\\\\- Brain Inside -/// | o |\n| o | ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ | o |\n| o | Andre' Beck (ABPSoft) mehl: Andre_Beck@IRS.Inf.TU-Dresden.de | o |\n+-o-+--------------------------------------------------------------+-o-+\n",
'From: FOO@MHFOO.PC.MY (Dr. Foo Meng How)\nSubject: How to gain access?\nOrganization: Klinik Foo\nLines: 11\n\nTo Whomever who can help me,\n\n\tI am a doctor from Kota Bharu, Kelantan, Malaysia. I have recently hooked up my \nprivate home computer to EMail via the local telephone company. I am really interested\nin corresponding with other Doctors or medical researchers through Email. I also hope\nto be able to subscribe to a news network on medicine.\n\nCan someone please tell me what I should do? I am completely new to this and have no \nidea about the vast capabilities of Email.\n\nThank you for your attention.\n',
"From: rhaller@ns.uoregon.edu (Rich Haller)\nSubject: Resound Hearing aids (and others)\nOrganization: University of Oregon\nLines: 31\nDistribution: world\nNNTP-Posting-Host: rhaller.cc.uoregon.edu\n\nI have a fairly severe high frequency hearing loss. A recent rough test\nshowed a gently sloping loss to 10-20db down at 1000cps. Then it falls off\na cliff to 70-80dbs down from 1500cps on. This type of loss is difficult\nto fit. I am currently using some old siemens behind the ear aids which\nkeep me roughly functional, but leave a lot to be desired.\n\nRecently I had an opportunity to test the Widex Q8 behind the ear aids for\nseveral weeks. These have four independent programs which are intended to\nbe customized for different hearing situations and can be reprogramed. I\nfound them to be a definite improvement over my current aids and was about\nto go ahead with them until another local outfit advertised a free trial of\nanother programmable system called ReSound.\n\nUnfortunately I was only able to try the ReSound aids in their office for\nabout 30 minutes and I couldn't compare them 'head to head' with the Widex.\nNevertheless, it did appear to me that they were superior and I was\nimpressed by what I was able to read about the theory behind them which I\nwill give in a separate posting. They also carry the Widex aids and had one\npatient (presumably wealthy) who decided to go ahead and get the ReSound\neven though he had purchased the Widex only 6 months ago.\n\nThe problem is that the ReSound aids are about twice as expensive as the\nWidex and other programmable aids. I could take a trip to Europe on the\ndifference! Being a lover of bargains and hating to spend money, I am\nhaving a hard time persuading myself to go with the ReSounds. I would\nappreciate any opinions on this and other hearing aids and projections\nabout when and if I might see improvements in technology that aren't quite\nso expensive.\n\n-Rich Haller <rhaller@ns.uoregon.edu> University of Oregon, Eugene, OR,\nUSA\n",
"From: T.G.Nattress@newcastle.ac.uk (Graeme Nattress)\nSubject: Re: Cults Vs. Religions?\nNntp-Posting-Host: newton\nOrganization: University of Newcastle upon Tyne, UK, NE1 7RU\nLines: 12\n\njgreen@trumpet.calpoly.edu (James Thomas Green) writes:\n\n\nA religion is a cult which if those in power belong to it.\n\nActually, they're all bull shit.\n\nGraeme,\n{--- T.G.Nattress@uk.ac.ncl -----------------------------------------}\n{-----Hitler is Nibor from the Planet Vashir, the Galactic ---------}\n{--- shape-changing psychopath. ---------------------------------------}\n{-----John, The Tomorrow People, Hitler's Last Secret.------------------}\n",
'From: poram@ihlpb.att.com\nSubject: Re: Dreams and out of body incidents\nOrganization: AT&T\nLines: 44\n\nIn article <May.11.02.37.40.1993.28185@athos.rutgers.edu> dt4%cs@hub.ucsb.edu (David E. Goggin) writes:\n>\n>I\'d like to get your comments on a question that has been on my mind a\n>lot: What morals/ethics apply to dreams and out-of-body incidents?\n\nDave - you might like to read a book by Florence Bulle "God\nWants You Rich & Other Enticing Doctrines", which discusses\nOOBEs in one of her chapters.\n\nIn the Bible we have examples of men caught up in the Spirit (eg\nEzekiel, Paul). I believe that also this experience is\ncounterfeited by Satan - so that for example yoga and other\neastern medatitive techniques can be used to induce the soul to\nleave the body and float off. Someone tried to sell me a book in\nLos Angeles airport entitled "Easy Journeys to Other Planets"\nwhich uses such techniques.\n\nThe occultic trance of a medium sometimes involves such body\ndeparture - the book "The Challanging Counterfeit", about a\nformer medium who gets saved, tells how the author, on his last\ntrance, was attacked by evil spirits who tried to kill him\nwhile returning to his body at the end of the seance\nbecause of his interest in Christianity and how he was supernaturally\nprotected by the Lord.\n\nThere may be some similarities in mind-altering drugs and the\nphenomena of \'tripping\'.\n\nAs regards the connection between body and soul, there is an\ninteresting verse in Ecclesiastes. In a passage talking about\nold age, the preacher writes "Then man goes to his eternal home\nand mourners go about the streets. Remember Him--before the\nsilver cord is severed." (12.5-6) My understanding of this\nsilver cord is that it is something that attaches body and soul\nin a manner somewhat similar to an umbilical cord or an\nastronaut\'s air-line to his spaceship.\nWhen a person goes out of body this silver cord still attaches\nthe soul whereever it goes - and is vulnerable to being broken:\nastral projection can be dangerous! Bulle, I think, reports a\ncase of a yogi off on an OOBE who was found dead in his\napartment, with no apparent external cause.\n\nBarney Resson\n"Many shall run to and fro, & knowledge shall increase" (Daniel)\n',
'From: kolassa@genesee.bst.rochester.edu (John Kolassa)\nSubject: Re: Definition of Christianity?\nOrganization: University of Rochester Biostatistics.\nLines: 29\n\nIn article <May.12.04.28.31.1993.9972@athos.rutgers.edu> clh writes:\n>\n>[Often we get into discussions about who is Christian. Unfortunately\n>there are a number of possible definitions. Starting from the \n>broadest, commonly used definitions are:\n\n>3) The next level is an attempt to give a broad doctrinal definition,\n>which includes all of the major strands of Christianity, but excludes\n>groups that are felt to be outside "historic Christianity." This is\n>of course a slippery enterprise, since Catholics could argue that\n>Protestants are outside historic Christianity, etc. But I think the\n>most commonly accepted definition would be based on something like the\n>Nicene Creed and the Formula of Chalcedon.\n\nAre you sure you want to include Chalcedon here? I presume that you \nmean the description of Jesus as fully human and fully devine. Almost \neveryone would consider the majority of Copts and Armenians, and the \nJacobites, as Christians, yet for 15 centuries it has been maintained \nthat they disagree with the Formula of Chalcedon. Those that wouldn\'t \nconsider them Christians are most likely to object that these communities \ndon\'t require a personal commitment to Jesus, which is only tangentially \nrelated to the Formula of Chalcedon. \n-- \nThanks, John Kolassa, kolassa@bio1.bst.rochester.edu\n\n[As I understand the recent discussion here, the Copts for all\npractical purposes accept Chalcedon. They talk about one nature\nrather than two, but the issue seems to be one of terminology rather\nthan substance. --clh]\n',
'From: sahr@piglet.uccs.edu (Kevin Sahr)\nSubject: Looking for polygon "convexifier"\nOrganization: University of Colorado at Colorado Springs\nLines: 8\nDistribution: world\nNNTP-Posting-Host: piglet.uccs.edu\n\nDoes anyone know where I can find a code which would take concave\npolygons and break them up into a set of convex polygons?\n\nThanks,\n\nKevin\nsahr@piglet.uccs.edu\n\n',
'From: hayesstw@risc1.unisa.ac.za (Steve Hayes)\nSubject: Re: Hyslop and _The_Two_Babylons_\nOrganization: University of South Africa\nLines: 52\n\nIn article <May.13.02.30.57.1993.1557@geneva.rutgers.edu> mangoe@cs.umd.edu (Charley Wingate) writes:\n\n>Seeing as how _The_Two_Babylons_ has been brought up again, it is time for\n>me to respond , once again, and say that this book is junk. It is nothing\n>more that an anti-Catholic tract of the sort published ever since the there\n>were protestants. Its scholarship is phony and its assertions spurious.\n\n\nI have not seen this book, though I have had several people quote it in \nsupport of some tendentious assertions they were making, so I have become \ncurious about it.\n\nI don\'t want to malign this Hislop fellow, whoever he may be, as I have only \nheard the arguments at second hand, but both of the arguments seemed to turn \non false etymology that SEEMED to be derived from Hislop.\n\nI would be interested in knowing more about these things. \n\nThe first one claimed that the word "church" was derived from the Greek \n"cyclos", and that it was therefore related to the worship of "Circe".\n\nI don\'t know if Hislop is the source of this assertion, but it does seem to \nbe based on false etymology.\n\nThe second claimed an etymological relationship between "Ishtar" and \n"Easter", which seemed to be even more fanciful and far-fetched than some \nof the wilder notions of the British Israelites.\n\nRegarding the latter, as far as I have been able to find out, "Easter" is \nderived from the old English name for April - "Eosturmonath". The Venerable \nBede mentioned that this was associated with a goddess called "Eostre", but \napart from that reference I have not been able to find out anything more \nabout her. It also seems that the term "Easter" is only used by the English \nand those they evangelized. The Germans, for example, also use the term \n"Ostern", but Germany was evangelized by English missionaries.\n\nSo I would be interested in any evidence of "Easter" being used for Pascha \nby people who do not have any kind of connection with the ancient Anglo-\nSaxons and their offshoots. Such evidence might support the claims of those \nwho appear to derive the theory from Hislop.\n\n\n\n\n\n============================================================\nSteve Hayes, Department of Missiology & Editorial Department\nUniv. of South Africa, P.O. Box 392, Pretoria, 0001 South Africa\nInternet: hayesstw@risc1.unisa.ac.za Fidonet: 5:7101/20\n steve.hayes@p5.f22.n7101.z5.fidonet.org\nFAQ: Missiology is the study of Christian mission and is part of\n the Faculty of Theology at Unisa\n',
'From: darice@yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au (Fred Rice)\nSubject: Re: Yet more Rushdie [Re: ISLAMIC LAW]\nOrganization: Monash University, Melb., Australia.\nLines: 11\n\nI just received some new information regarding the issue of \nBCCI and whether it is an Islamic bank etc.\n\nI am now about to post it under the heading\n\n"BCCI".\n\nLook for it there!\n\n Fred Rice\n darice@yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au \n',
'From: swf@elsegundoca.ncr.com (Stan Friesen)\nSubject: Re: MAJOR VIEWS OF THE TRINITY\nReply-To: swf@elsegundoca.ncr.com\nLines: 40\n\nIn article <May.11.02.37.09.1993.28123@athos.rutgers.edu>, you write:\n|> \n|> [I fear orthodox theologians have been overly in love with paradox, to\n|> the extent that well-meaning people think they\'ve just flat-out\n|> confused. There\'s no problem with things being both 3 and 1, e.g. if\n|> the 3 are different parts of the 1. ...\n|> But they\'re in some way\n|> different aspects, modes, or whatever, of one God. If you accept\n|> economic trinitarianism, it\'s possible that you don\'t have any\n|> substantive difference with the standard view. Is it possible that\n|> you just don\'t find the neo-Platonic explanation illuminating?\n|> --clh]\n\nI would put it stronger than that. I consider it nonsense.\n\nSimply put, I do not see any way that a "Platonic essence" could have\nany *real* existance. "Essence" in the Platonic sense does not have\nany referent as far as I can tell - it is just an imaginary concept\ninvented to provide an explanation for things better explained in\nother ways.\n\nSo, to attribute an \'essence\' to God is to attribute to him something that\ndoes not exist!! Thus the orthodox Platonic formulation seems to leave\nthe unity of God in limbo, since it is based on a non-existant \'essence\',\nthus failing to avoid the very problem it was supposed to address.\n\nThus, to me, the unity of God must be primary, and the triality must be\nsecondary, must be modal or aspectual (relating to roles, or to modes\nof interaction), since otherwise there is no meaning to saying God is one.\n\n-- \nsarima@teradata.com\t\t\t(formerly tdatirv!sarima)\n or\nStanley.Friesen@ElSegundoCA.ncr.com\n\n[I think one can read Augustine as saying something consistent with\nyour comments. His "De Trinitate" -- which has been very influential\nin the West -- defines the distinction among the persons relationally.\nYou\'re probably at one extreme of orthodox views, but I\'m not sure\nyour views are necessary incompatible with the Trinity. --clh]\n',
"From: powlesla@acs.ucalgary.ca (Jim Powlesland)\nSubject: Re: Why does Illustrator AutoTrace so poorly?\nOrganization: The University of Calgary, Alberta\nLines: 12\nNntp-Posting-Host: acs6.acs.ucalgary.ca\n\n\nI've had pretty good success autotracing line art with Adobe\nStreamline 2.0. The key to controlling excessive points, etc. is\nto take some time and do some test conversions using various\nTolerance settings.\n\n\n-- \n/ Jim Powlesland / INTERNET: powlesla@acs.ucalgary.ca\n/ Academic Computing Services / VOICE: (403)220-7937\n/ University of Calgary / MESSAGE: (403)220-6201\n/ Calgary, Alberta CANADA T2N 1N4 / FAX: (403)282-9199\n",
'From: creps@lateran.ucs.indiana.edu (Stephen A. Creps)\nSubject: Re: Question about Virgin Mary\nOrganization: Indiana University\nLines: 20\n\nIn article <May.5.02.52.03.1993.28782@athos.rutgers.edu> revdak@netcom.com (D. Andrew Kille) writes:\n>Just an observation- although the bodily assumption has no basis in\n>the Bible, Carl Jung declared it to be one of the most important pronouncements\n>of the church in recent years, in that it implied the inclusion of the \n>feminine into the Godhead.\n\n Jung may have said that, but he was in no way speaking for the\nCatholic Church. The dogma of the Assumption in no way means Mary is\nconsidered to be God or part of "the Godhead." Therefore it implies no\nsuch thing about the feminine in general.\n\n Also Jung\'s statement makes it sound as though the dogma was\nannounced "out of the blue." This also is incorrect, as dogma is only\nthe formulation of what has always been part of Tradition. This dogma\nhas always been believed, but was not formally defined until the\nAssumption was declared as an _ex cathedra_ statement.\n\n-\t-\t-\t-\t-\t-\t-\t-\t-\t-\nSteve Creps, Indiana University\ncreps@lateran.ucs.indiana.edu\n',
'From: aldridge@netcom.com (Jacquelin Aldridge)\nSubject: Re: cholistasis(sp?)/fat-free diet/pregnancy!!\nOrganization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)\nLines: 85\n\naldridge@netcom.com (Jacquelin Aldridge) writes:\n\nI decided to come back and amend this so it quotes me and has added\ncomments...\n\n>heart@access.digex.com (G) writes:\n\n>>Hi,\n\n>>it started to hurt when I lay on my right side, and then it hurt \n>>no matter what position I was in. Next, I noticed that when I \n>>ate greasy or fatty foods I felt like my entire abdomen had \n>>turned to stone, and the pain in the area got worse. However if \n>>I ate sauerkraut or vinegar or something to \'cut\' the fat it \n>>wasn\'t as much of a problem.\n\n>>So the doctor says I have cholistatis, and that I should avoid \n>>fatty foods. This makes sense, and because I was already aware \n>>of what seemed to me this cause and effect relationship I have \n>>been avoiding these foods on my own. But I\'m still able to eat \n>>foods with Ricotta cheese for instance and other low fat foods. \n\n>>But doc wants me to be on a non-fat diet. This means no meat \n>>except fish and chicken w/o skin (I do this anyway). No nuts, \n>>fried food, cheese etc. I am allowed skim milk. She said I \n>>should avoid anything sweet (e.g. bananas). Also I must only \n>>have one serving of something high in carbohydrates a day ( \n>>potatoes, pasta, rice)! She said I can\'t even cook vegetables in \n>>a little bit of oil and that I should eat vegetables raw or \n>>steamed. I\'m concerned because I understand you need to have \n>>some fat in your diet to help in the digestive process. And if \n\n>>G\n\n>For one week, she probably wants to see how you react to the diet. If it\n>changes anything. \n\n>You can live on the diet but you need to up your non-fat calories. Where\nbefore you had a pat of butter, now you need a medium apple (probably microwave\n>cooked). Smaller meals but more of them. Not terrific amounts of meat, it\'s\n>hard to digest anyway. First, even fish, fowl and breads have fat. Second,\nthe body will make fat out of carbohydrates if it needs them. Third, your\nbody, like most peoples, wasn\'t bred to live on a high fat, modern diet.\nIf you read texts about ancient and primative people you will read about\nthe luxury of eating fat, how people enjoyed it. This was because it was so\nrare. Even cows didn\'t put out nearly the amount of butterfat in milk that\nthey do now. \n\n>For comfort and to make the carbohydrate meal "last" longer eat pasta or\n>rice which give their calories up slowly rather than bread or corn. Maybe\n>smaller meals as you may be getting less room in the stomach area. Is the\n>baby still coming up. Is it starting to push or rub under your ribs? How\n>tight are your clothes. You shouldn\'t be wearing any clothing that compresses \n>your middle. Be sure not to "suck in" your stomach when sitting, again it\n>will put pressure on the digestive tract. \n\n>Try laying on your sides, back,\n>and stay in reclining positions for the many hours you are being inactive.\n>Easier on your legs (circulation) as well. You might try letting the baby\n>"turn" or at least not be forced under the ribs during the last months.\n>When you are shortwaisted it\'s easy for that baby to end up right under the\n>diaphram, especially if you have tight abdominal muscles. If I had my\n>second one to do over again I think I\'d have tried to loosen up since he\n>didn\'t turn sideways until late and the relief was enormous.\n\n\n>Maybe this doctor does have a thing about weight gain in pregnancy or maybe\n>she just nags all her patients this way. Especially if she\'s young. \n>But this gallbladder/whatever problem that might be coming up is something\n>to be avoided if possible. You don\'t want to become ill with it while you\nare pregnant. If you are lucky you can work on getting rid of it after the\nbaby. (It is said that doctors have less gallbadder surgery than the rest\nof the population, a good part of it is that they are willing to do the\ndieting, etc that helps them avoid surgery. Also, I don\'t think the surgery\nlets a person go back to eating a high fat diet. ) \n\n>Nausea, etc. can vary from person to person and with each pregnancy. My\n>first pregnancy was miserable. During the second I had very little trouble.\n>Some articles have said that women with nausea had a statistically better\n>chance of carrying their baby. (grain of salt here) \n\n>Good luck\n\n>-Jackie-\n\n',
'From: mmh@dcs.qmw.ac.uk (Matthew Huntbach)\nSubject: Re: Definition of Christianity?\nOrganization: Computer Science Dept, QMW, University of London, UK.\nLines: 29\n\nIn article <May.12.04.28.31.1993.9972@athos.rutgers.edu> autry@magellan.stlouis.sgi.com (Larry Autry) writes:\n>I have enrolled in "The History of Christianity" at a college here in\n>St. Louis. The teacher of the class is what I consider to be\n>closed-minded and bigotted on the subject of what the definition of\n>Christianity is. His definition is tied directly to that of the\n>Trinity and the Catholic church\'s definition of it and belief in\n>Jesus Christ is not sufficient to call one\'s self a Christian.\n>\nWhat you call "the Trinity and the Catholic church\'s definition\nof it" is precisely the result of the first Christians getting\ntogether and trying to find an acceptable answer to your\nquestion "what is a Christian?". I can\'t see what you are\nobjecting to: someone is saying what historians of all beliefs\nwould agree on, and you are calling him a closed-minded bigot?\n\nYou really ought to say what you mean by "belief in Jesus\nChrist". It is not a wording that is sufficient to describe a\nChristian. Muslims believe in Jesus Christ although they\nbelieve he was a prophet and not the incarnated Son of God. But\nfollowers of Eastern religions might be quite happy to say that\nJesus was the incarnation of God - along with large numbers of\nother historical and mythical figures.\n\nSo perhaps you ought to rephrase your question and say\nprecisely what it is in the traditional definitions of what it\nis to be a Christian, as handed down by the Universal Church,\nyou object to but regard as unnecessary for being a Christian.\n\nMatthew Huntbach\n',
"From: dps@nasa.kodak.com (Dan Schaertel,,,)\nSubject: Re: War - should Christians fight?\nReply-To: dps@nasa.kodak.com\nOrganization: Eastman Kodak Company\nLines: 12\n\nIn article 28827@athos.rutgers.edu, david-s@hsr.no (David A. Sjoen) writes:\n|>Personally, I think that Christians shouldn't fight.\n\n|>2) As Christians, we are not supposed to defend ourselves\n|>\tMatt 5:38-48, Heb 10:33-34\n|>3) War is a result of sin. Defense may be a necessary reaction to an\n|>attack, but I don't think that we as Christians should take part in\n|>this.\n\n\nWhat if you are trying to defend someone else. Should you allow killing and\noppression to continiue, or is it our obligation to protect the innocent?\n",
'From: atterlep@vela.acs.oakland.edu (Cardinal Ximenez)\nSubject: Dialogue with conservatives wanted\nOrganization: National Association for the Disorganized\nLines: 14\n\n\n Are there any members of conservative, religious, politically active groups\n(such as the Christian Coalition) out there? I come from a very liberal \nbackground, and I\'d like to talk to some conservative people out there in a \npublic forum (such as this one.) I frankly can\'t understand the rationale or\nChristian basis for much of the conservative position, and I\'d like to try and\nlearn more about this movement--after all, we\'re part of the same church. Is\nanyone interested in explaining a bit about the conservative viewpoint?\n Thanks.\n\nAlan Terlep\t\t\t\t"If your children knew just how\nOakland University, Rochester, MI\t lame you were, they\'d murder\natterlep@vela.acs.oakland.edu\t\t you in your sleep."\nRushing in where angels fear to tread.\t\t\t --Frank Zappa\n',
"From: dfr@usna.navy.mil (PROF D. Rogers (EAS FAC))\nSubject: Re: Help needed on hidden line removal\nKeywords: hidden line graphics 3D\nDistribution: comp\nOrganization: U. S. Naval Academy\nLines: 37\n\nIn article <raynor.735415408@beech.cs.scarolina.edu> raynor@cs.scarolina.edu (Harold Brian Raynor) writes:\n>\n>I am looking for some information of hidden line removal using Roberts\n>algorithm. Something with code, or pseudo code would be especially\n>helpful.\n>\n>I am required to do this for a class, due Monday (we have very little\n>time to implement these changes, it is a VERY FAST paced class). The\n>notes given in class leave a LOT to be desired, so I would vastly\n>appreciate any help.\n>\n>Actually any algorithm would be nice (Roberts or no). The main problem\n>is two objects intersecting in x and y dimensions, need to know which\n>lines to clip off so that one object will appear in front of another.\n>\n>If you can give me an ftp address and filename, or even the name of a\n>good book, I'd REALLY appreciate it.\n\nG'day Brian,\n\nI'll be blunt about this. The ONLY reasonable explanation of Roberts\nalgorithm is in\n\nProcedural Elements for Computer Graphics\nRogers\nMcGraw-Hill Book Co. 1985\n\nGo to the library and look at this.\n\nThere is also a somewhat muddled explanation in the first edition\nof Newman and Sproull.\n\nThe algorithm described in PECG runs in near linear time.\n\nLuck,\n\nDave Rogers\n",
"From: holmes7000@iscsvax.uni.edu\nSubject: Archiving GIF\nOrganization: University of Northern Iowa\nLines: 9\n\nWhat's the best way to archive GIF's? I zip them and they only shrink 1%. I\nhave most compression programs except stacker which I heard was good for GIF's.\n\n\nThanx\n-Brando\n\nPS please E-mail me, I don't get down this far on the news usually\n\n",
'From: cs89ssg@brunel.ac.uk (Sunil Gupta)\nSubject: Re: MESSAGE: for cgcad@bart.inescn.pt\nOrganization: Brunel University, Uxbridge, UK\nX-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL9]\nLines: 7\n\n\nSunil Gupta (cs89ssg@brunel.ac.uk) wrote:\n: I cant get through to the author of rtrace. His site is inaccessible\n: can he upload the new version somewhere else please?\n\nProblem solved, its on wuarchive graphics/graphics/ray/RTrace/...\nWhy does it seg fault so often?\n',
'From: mmh@dcs.qmw.ac.uk (Matthew Huntbach)\nSubject: Re: SATANIC TOUNGES\nOrganization: Computer Science Dept, QMW, University of London, UK.\nLines: 23\n\nIn article <May.10.05.08.50.1993.3730@athos.rutgers.edu> bjorn.b.larsen@delab.sintef.no writes:\n>We chose to believe whetever we want, but we are not allowed to define\n>our own Christianity. we see in parts. If you see something that I do\n>not see, or vice versa, it does not give me the right to play jokes on\n>your belief!\n>\nIt is important if Christianity is being damaged by it. If\npeople who "speak in tongues" make claims that they are\nmiraculously speaking a foreign language through the power of\nthe Holy Spirit, when it can easily be shown that they are simply\nmaking noises, it damages all Christians, since many who are\nnot Christians do not distinguish between the various sects.\n\nThe more modest claim for "tongues" that it is simply\nuncontrolled praise in which "words fail you" is surely the one\nthat should be used by those who make use of this practice.\n\nI agree with the point that "Charismatic" practices like this\ncan lead to forms of worship which are more about the\nworshipper showing off than genuine praise for God; one of the\nthings Jesus warned us about.\n\nMatthew Huntbach\n',
'From: autry@sgi.com (Larry Autry)\nSubject: Re: What WAS the immaculate conception\nOrganization: Silicon Graphics, St. Louis, MO\nLines: 26\n\nIn article <May.14.02.11.19.1993.25177@athos.rutgers.edu> seanna@bnr.ca (Seanna (S.M.) Watson) writes:\n>In article <May.9.05.39.52.1993.27456@athos.rutgers.edu> jhpb@sarto.budd-lake.nj.us (Joseph H. Buehler) writes:\n>[referring to Mary]\n>>She was immaculately conceived, and so never subject to Original Sin,\n>>but also never committed a personal sin in her whole life. This was\n>>possible because of the special degree of grace granted to her by God.\n> skipping......\n>I don\'t particularly object to the idea of the assumption, or the\n>perpetual virginity (both of which I regard as Catholic dogma about \n>which I will agree to disagree with my Catholic brothers and sisters \n>in Christ), and I even believe in the virgin birth of Jesus, but \n>this concept of Mary\'s sinlessness seems to me to be at odds with \n>the rest of Christian doctrine as I understand it.\n\nThe Catholic church has an entirely different view of Mary than do \n"most" other Christian churches (those with parallel beliefs\nnotwithstanding). Christ, by most accounts, is the only sinless\nperson to ever live. I too, have trouble with a sinless Mary\nconcept just. \nAs for the related issue of the "original" sin - only Adam and\nEve will answer for that one. My children do not answer for my sins,\ncertainly I only answer for mine.\n--\nLarry Autry\nSilicon Graphics, St. Louis\nautry@sgi.com \n',
'From: hayesstw@risc1.unisa.ac.za (Steve Hayes)\nSubject: Re: The Nicene Creed (was Re: MAJOR VIEWS OF THE TRINITY)\nOrganization: University of South Africa\nLines: 23\n\nIn article <May.9.05.39.19.1993.27401@athos.rutgers.edu> db7n+@andrew.cmu.edu (D. Andrew Byler) writes:\n\n>>The so-called Creed of Athanasius, however, has always been a Western\n>>creed, and has always had the filioque. The Orthodox have said that\n>>they accept all that it says, with the exception of the filioque, but\n>>it is not "in use."\n...\n>\tOf course the Orthodox did not delete the Filioque from the Nicene\n>Creed (it wasn\'t there to begin with), but they certainly did from the\n>Athanasian Creed, which did have it from the beginning.\n\nThe so-called Athanasian Creed has never been a recognized standard of faith \nin the Orthodox Church. It was introduced (without the Filioque) in certain \nservice-books in the 17th and 18th centuries at a time when there was a \nstrong Western influence on Orhtodoxy.\n\n============================================================\nSteve Hayes, Department of Missiology & Editorial Department\nUniv. of South Africa, P.O. Box 392, Pretoria, 0001 South Africa\nInternet: hayesstw@risc1.unisa.ac.za Fidonet: 5:7101/20\n steve.hayes@p5.f22.n7101.z5.fidonet.org\nFAQ: Missiology is the study of Christian mission and is part of\n the Faculty of Theology at Unisa\n',
'From: banschbach@vms.ocom.okstate.edu\nSubject: Re: vitamin A and hearing loss\nLines: 24\nNntp-Posting-Host: vms.ocom.okstate.edu\nOrganization: OSU College of Osteopathic Medicine\nDistribution: sci\n\nIn article <1993Apr30.194806.10652@banana.fedex.com>, claude@banana.fedex.com (claude bowie) writes:\n> i heard a news report indicating research showing improved \n> hearing in people taking vitamin A. the research showed that new \n> growth replaced damaged "hairlike" nerves. has anyone heard about\n> this? \n> \nClaude, I\'ve not heard or read anything that would suggest that vitamin A(\nretinol) could reverse hearing loss due to nerve damage(usually caused by \nhigh sound levels, but also occassionally due to severe infection). The \ntypes of cells that vitamin A regulates are the general epithelial cells \nand these cell types are not the ones that function in the ear hearing \nprocess. The hair cell nerve-like epithelial cells in the ear may respond \nto vitamin A during cellular differentiation(embryogenesis) but I don\'t \nknow if they are still capable of responding in adults. If they are \ncapable of responding with new hair growth, this would be a very major \nbreakthrough in hearing loss. With all of the medical interest in vitamin \nA, it would not be too surprising if a clinical study was done using \nvitamin A to reverse hearing loss. But with only a news announcement to go \non(and this type of communication is notoriously bad), I can\'t comment on \nyour question anymore than I already have. If one study has been done, \nmore will need to follow to firm up a link between vitamin A and hearing \nloss if there really is one.\n\nMarty B. \n',
"From: whitsebd@nextwork.rose-hulman.edu (Bryan Whitsell)\nSubject: Re: Homosexuality issues in Christianity\nReply-To: whitsebd@nextwork.rose-hulman.edu\nOrganization: News Service at Rose-Hulman\nLines: 18\n\nIn article <May.11.02.39.05.1993.28328@athos.rutgers.edu> carlson@ab24.larc.nasa.gov \n(Ann Carlson) writes:\n> In article <May.7.01.08.16.1993.14381@athos.rutgers.edu>, > Anyone who thinks \nbeing gay and Christianity are not compatible should \n> check out Dignity, Integrity, More Light Presbyterian churches, Affirmation,\n> MCC churches, etc. Meet some gay Christians, find out who they are, pray\n> with them, discuss scripture with them, and only *then* form your opinion.\n> -- \n\nI would absolutly love to have the time and energy to do so. The\nproblem is to be totally fair I would have to go throught this type of\nsearch on every issue I belive in. I don't have the time, resources,\nor ability to do what you ask. Maybe you should pray that God gives\nme the opportunity instead of simply discrediting me because I have\nnot been able to talk to every gay christian.\n\nIn Christ's Love,\nBryan \n",
"From: conan@durban.berkeley.edu (David Cruz-Uribe)\nSubject: Re: St. Maria Goretti\nOrganization: U.C. Berkeley Math. Department.\nLines: 14\n\nAfter reading this story about St. Maria Goretti (posted two weeks\nago), I am a bit confused. While it is clear that her daily\nlife is one of probity and sanctity, I am afraid I don't quite\nunderstand the final episode of her life. I am reading it \ncorrectly, she (and the Church apparently) felt that being raped\nwas a sin on _her_ part, one so perfidious that she would rather\ndie than commit it. If this is the case I'm afraid that I \ndisagree rather strongly.\n\nCan anyone out there explain this one to me?\n\nYours in Christ,\n\nDavid Cruz-Uribe, SFO\n",
'From: crgruen@sony1.sdrc.com (robert gruen)\nSubject: Bit Planes\nLines: 12\n\nCould anyone please explain what Bit Planes are? We have an SGI here at work \nthat says it has 64 Bit Planes - what does this mean? How does this relate to \nPC graphics? What do they usually have? Please reply via Email as most of \nthis group is over my head. \n\nThanks in advance!!! \n\nBob Gruen \n---------\nStructural Dynamics Research Corp.\nCincinnati, Ohio \n513/576-5635 \n',
'From: hudson@athena.cs.uga.edu (Paul Hudson Jr)\nSubject: Re: FAQ essay on homosexuality\nOrganization: University of Georgia, Athens\nLines: 201\n\nIn article <May.11.05.06.28.1993.5458@geneva.rutgers.edu> hedrick@geneva.rutgers.edu writes:\n\n>this came from. Here\'s his response: Kinsey (see below) is the source\n>of the figure 10 percent.\n\nThere was an article in USA today a few months ago showing the results\nof a study that actually only about 1% were homosexual. I saw another\nfigure that listed 2% as the figure. Of course, even if it were 99%\nthat would have little bearing on whether or not it is a sinful behavior.\nHow many people have commited other acts of fornication? How many\npeople have lied or sinned in other ways?\n\n>But in all fairness, the "shameless" nature of their acts is a\n>reflection of the general spiritual state of the people, and not a\n>specific feature of homosexuality.\n\nWhy isn\'t it a specific feature of homosexuality? Paul describes\n"men with men working that which is unseemly" to describe the acts. \nSure, there spirtual nature was depraved also, and like the other\nsins, the idolatry, the other sexual immoraity, and the other sins\nsprang from their depraved spiritual state which was a result of \nman\'s not glorifying God as God and being thankful. Still, their\nacts were shameless.\n\n>homosexuality or even considered it acceptable in some cases. On the\n>other hand, none of these passages contains explicit teachings on the\n>subject. Rom 1 is really about idolatry. It refers to homosexuality\n>in passing.\n\nIs everything sinful specifically elaborated on in the New Testament?\nScripture does not condemn being a drug dealer. Being ruled by the\nSpirit rather than the letter not only frees from legalism, it also\nprotects us from sins that are against the Spirit. The word is a\ntwo edged sword that cuts both ways. \n\nI think we must be careful before we totally throw out Leviticus. \nIf the Law is reflection of God\'s character and true holy nature, then\nthose who say that God endorses homosexuality run into a problem. \nIf homosexuality were "natural" (whatever that means) wholesome, \nendorsed by God, and those who oppose sexual behavior are narrow-minded\nbiggots, as some would have us believe, why is there a condemnation of\nit in Leviticus. This condemnation is in the midst of all the other\nsex sin condemnations, and there is nothing in the text to say that this\nlaw was limited to temple prostitution, and no good reason to believe that\nthis was the case. Furthermore, male homosexual sex was a death-penalty\ncrime! \n\nIs every sin elaborated on in the New Testament? Take a look at\nI Corinthians 5. Paul said that one of the Corinthians had broken a\nlaw not even heard of among the Gentiles, that one should have his father\'s\nwife. There is a prohibition against having your father\'s wife in \nLeviticus. No other new Testament verse clearly condemns it (besides\nthis one.) Notice that Paul did not say that the sin was in commiting\nadultery, etc.- he spoke against having one\'s father\'s wife. \n\nNotice also that this sexual condemnation in Leviticus is not mentioned\nin the specific context of paganism either. And there was no pagan \ncoustom mentioned in I corinthians either. As a matter of fact\ntaking one\'s father\'s wife wasn\'t even done among the Gentiles. It was\njust a plain blantant sin, whether worshipping idols was involved or\nnot.\n\n>One commonly made claim is that Paul had simply never faced the kinds\n>of questions we are trying to deal with. He encountered homosexuality\n>only in contexts where most people would probably agree that it was\n>wrong. He had never faced the experience of Christians who try to act\n>"straight" and fail, and he had never faced Christians who are trying\n>to define a Christian homosexuality, which fits with general Christian\n>ideals of fidelity and of seeing sexuality as a mirror of the\n>relationship between God and man. It is unfair to take Paul\'s\n>judgement on homosexuality among idolaters and use it to make\n>judgements on these questions.\n\nOne of the reasons that some of us do not accept that common argument\nis because Paul probably did face this and other problems. Sin can\nbe tough to over come, especially without supernatural power. Is\nhomosexual sin any more difficult to overcome that heterosexual sin,\nlike lusting after a married woman, or sleeping around with people of\nthe opposite sex? I doubt it, and even if it is, that is no excuse.\nGod is greater than all of it. \n\nAnother reason we reject it is because it ignores the supernatural\npower of God to intervene in this kind of situation. How many \npeople have been set free from sin by the power of God? Sure there\nmay be any groups that have tried to change homosexuals and failed.\nThat is a reflection on the people involved in the program, and not\nGod\'s willingness and ability to change a sinner. Any program that\nuses formulas may fail. What people need is the power of God to\nchange them, whether they are involved in homosexual sin, or any other\nsin.\n\n>I claim that the question of how to counsel homosexual Christians is\n>not entirely a theological issue, but also a pastoral one. Paul\'s\n>tendency, as we can see in issues such as eating meat and celebrating\n>holidays, is to be uncompromising on principle but in pastoral issues\n>to look very carefully at the good of the people involved, and to\n>avoid insisting on perfection when it would be personally damaging.\n>For example, while Paul clearly believed that it was acceptable to eat\n>meat, he wanted us to avoid pushing people into doing an action about\n>which they had personal qualms. \n\nI don\'t see how you come to that conclusion. Paul\'s dealings with\npastorial issues encouraged people to give up their liberties in order\nto spare others- not to allow people to continue in sin because it\nwas just too difficult. Take the example of eating meat offered to idols.\nPaul felt that there was nothing wrong, in an abstract sense, with\neating the meat. Yet he advised believers to sacrifice their liberty\nto eat meat in order to spare others. \n\nBut Paul never allowed people to sin because living holy was just to\ntough. Paul wrote to "make no provision for the flesh to fulfill the lusts\nthereof." (Romans 13:14) Then he goes in to a discourse on how we\nshould sacrifice our own liberty in order to spare the consciences of others.\n\nSuppose it were not a sin for people to practice homosexual acts. \nSince others consider it to be a sin, then using Paul\'s approach\non pastorial issues, those who would otherwise be homosexuals should \nsacrifice their liberty and be celbate or monogamously married to a\nmember of the opposite sex. Paul never offers a lesser sin (homosexual\n"marriage") to prevent people from engaging in what may be considered \na more damaging sin.\n\n>For another example, Paul obviously\n>would have preferred to see people (at least in some circumstances)\n>remain unmarried. Yet if they were unable to do so, he certainly\n>would rather see them married than in a state where they might be\n>tempted to fornication.\n\nYet marriage itself is not a sin. marriage is holy in all- and something\nthat God ordains, and Paul recognizes this.\n\n> Note that in the\n>creation story work enters human life as a result of sin. This\n>doesn\'t mean that Christians can stop working when we are saved.\n\nActually, Adam was put in the garden to tend to it before he fell.\nAfter he fell he would have to toil over the ground.\n\n>The dangers of trying to cure it are that the attempt most often\n>fails, and when it does, you end up with damage ranging from\n>psychological damage to suicide, as well as broken marriages when\n>attempts at living as a heterosexual fail.\n\nThat is why we are dependent totally on God- what a vunerable and glorious\nposition to be it. We all must be transformed by the renewing of our\nminds- and that is the only way homosexuals can walk in freedom, just\nlike anyone else.\n\n>but I can well imagine Paul\n>preferring to see people in long-term, committed Christian\n>relationships than promiscuity. As with work -- which Genesis\n>suggests wasn\'t part of God\'s original ideal either -- I think such\n>relationships can still be a vehicle for people sharing God\'s love\n>with each other.\n\nI\'m sure you can see how people with the opposing view see this \nconclusion. It\'s like saying, "How should I kill myself, with gun or\naresenic? What about the person who just is overcome with a desire to\nsleep with goats? Would it be better for him to sleep with one goat,\nor all of them? What about the person who wants to sleep with his aunts?\nWould it be better for him to sleep with one aunt or all of them? \n\nIn all these cases, the more people or animals one sleeps with, the higher\nthe chance that they will get a disease. But this only deals with \nphysical aspects of the question. Whichever sin is commited, it all \nleads to spiritual death.\n\n>Cent. actions are the same. When Christian homosexuals say that their\n>relationships are different than the Greek homosexuality that Paul\n>would have been familiar with, this is exactly the same kind of\n>argument that is being made about judicial oaths and tax collectors.\n\nThe issue that is most often addressed in Scripture seems to be the\nactual act. Second, isn\'t it historical snobbery to say that\nonly homosexuals of this century are capable of having "loving\nrelationships?" There are ancient writings glorifying homosexual "love."\n(btw, I am one who believes in refraining from making oathes. Also,\nwhere do you get that tax collectors are sinners. That\'s certainly not\nexplicit. Jesus didn\'t tell Zachias to quit his job.)\n\nLink Hudson.\n\n\n[I\'m reluctant to comment in this in detail. Our basic concepts of\nthe intention of Jesus and Paul are greatly different. As I indicated\nin the article, whatever the ambiguities of various words (and I still\nthink they are significant), it does seem clear that Paul considered\nthe homosexuality he saw around him wrong. What you do with this fact\ndepends upon your basic approach to the Bible. I\'m afraid that\ncommunication between legalist and anti-legalist Christians is even\nharder than between Protestants and Catholics in the 16th Cent. Since\nyou disagree with my starting point, obviously you\'re going to\ndisagree with all of the intermediate discussion and conclusions.\nSometimes discussion is still useful. I\'ve seen some very interesting\nwork on Paul done by Jews. Obviously they don\'t agree with him, but\nthey sometimes have helpful insight into what he meant. But I don\'t\nsee much sign for hope here. In talk.religion.misc there\'s an axiom\nthat by the time Hitler\'s name is invoked, all hope for sensible\ndiscussion is gone. On this subject, when sleeping with goats is\ninvoked, I don\'t think there\'s enough basis for understanding to be\nworth pursuing. --clh]\n',
'From: Jennifer Lynn Urso <ju23+@andrew.cmu.edu>\nSubject: Re: Turning photographic images into thermal print and/or negatives\nOrganization: Freshman, Art, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA\nLines: 26\nNNTP-Posting-Host: po4.andrew.cmu.edu\nIn-Reply-To: <1993Apr26.183924.4567@seq.uncwil.edu>\n\n> Also if anyone else is doing what I am planning I would be happy to hear\n>from you with any advice you might provide as to the computer system you\n>use and/or any peripherals or software. It seemed the Quadra 800 would be\n>my best bet to modify photographic images. I am planning on buying a Quadra\n>800 with 32Megs of RAM, a 510Meg Hard Drive, a 1200 dpi scanner, 17" Sony \n>monitor and a 88Meg cartridge drive and perhaps a CD ROM. I am new to\n>computers and any advice would be great.\n \nwell, i have lots of experience with scanning in images and altering\nthem. as for changing them back into negatives, is that really possible?\nscanning and altering is no big deal. i don\'t know what types of\nfeatures you have in your version of photoshop. but the one i use\n(which, incidentally is on a quadra) has gallery effects and all types\nof other neato stuff.\ni\'m just wondering why you would want to put your images back into\nnegatives, because once you print the image out-that\'s your print.\ndo you know what exactly your aim is in all of this? like, are you\ndoing this just for fun, for a business, to gain more computer\nknowledge, for a project you\'re working on....\notherwise, i guess i don\'t know if i\'d be helping or not by posting info\non scanning and stuff.\nok? cool.\nseeya\n\njennifer urso: the oh-so bitter woman of utter blahness(but cheerful\nundertones)\n',
'From: bobbe@vice.ICO.TEK.COM (Robert Beauchaine)\nSubject: Re: Christian Morality is\nOrganization: Tektronix Inc., Beaverton, Or.\nLines: 52\n\nIn article <4949@eastman.UUCP> dps@nasa.kodak.com writes:\n>In article 11853@vice.ICO.TEK.COM, bobbe@vice.ICO.TEK.COM (Robert Beauchaine) writes:\n>|>\n>|> Yet I am still not a believer. Is god not concerned with my\n>|> disposition? Why is it beneath him to provide me with the\n>|> evidence I would require to believe? The evidence that my\n>|> personality, given to me by this god, would find compelling?\n>\n>The fact is God could cause you to believe anything He wants you to. \n>But think about it for a minute. Would you rather have someone love\n>you because you made them love you, or because they wanted to\n>love you. \n\n First, I don\'t expect them to love me if they don\'t even know I\n exist. Secondly, I wouldn\'t expect them to love me simply because\n they were my creator. I would expect to have to earn that love.\n\n>The responsibility is on you to love God and take a step toward\n>Him. He promises to be there for you, but you have to look for yourself.\n\n Are you daft? How do I love something I don\'t believe exists?\n Come back when you\'ve learned to love your third testicle.\n\n>Those who doubt this or dispute it have not givin it a sincere effort.\n>Simple logic arguments are folly. If you read the Bible you will see\n>that Jesus made fools of those who tried to trick him with "logic".\n>Our ability to reason is just a spec of creation. Yet some think it is\n>the ultimate. If you rely simply on your reason then you will never\n>know more than you do now. To learn you must accept that which\n>you don\'t know.\n\n At which point you have stepped over the line and become a\n complete asshole. Even though it\'s your first offense, I won\'t\n let it slip becuase I\'ve heard it too goddamned many times.\n\n You love Jesus because deep in your heart you\'re a cannibalistic\n necrophiliac. Because I say so, and I\'m much more qualified to\n assess your motivations than you are.\n\n Fortunately, there are some things I get to accept on evidence\n rather than faith. One of them being that until christians like\n yourself quit being so fucking arrogant, there will never be\n peace. You\'ve all made sure of that.\n\n/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\ \n\nBob Beauchaine bobbe@vice.ICO.TEK.COM \n\nThey said that Queens could stay, they blew the Bronx away,\nand sank Manhattan out at sea.\n\n^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^\n',
'Organization: Penn State University\nFrom: John A. Johnson <J5J@psuvm.psu.edu>\nSubject: Re: After 2000 years, can we say that Christian Morality is\n <1r1ko8$6b1@horus.ap.mchp.sni.de>\n <sandvik-200493232227@sandvik-kent.apple.com>\n <1r39kh$itp@horus.ap.mchp.sni.de>\nLines: 63\n\nIn article <1r39kh$itp@horus.ap.mchp.sni.de>, frank@D012S658.uucp (Frank\nO\'Dwyer) says:\n>\n[ . . .]\n>Specifically, I\'d like to know what relativism concludes when two\n>people grotesquely disagree. Is it:\n>\n>(a) Both are right\n>\n>(b) One of them is wrong, and sometimes (though perhaps rarely) we have a\n> pretty good idea who it is\n>\n>(c) One of them is wrong, but we never have any information as to who, so\n> we make our best guess if we really must make a decision.\n>\n>(d) The idea of a "right" moral judgement is meaningless (implying that\n> whether peace is better than war, e.g., is a meaningless question,\n> and need not be discussed for it has no correct answer)\n>\n>(e) Something else. A short, positive assertion would be nice.\n>\n>As I hope you can tell, (b) and (c) are actually predicated on\n>the assumption that values are real - so statements like these\n>_can\'t_ consistently derive from the relativist assumption that values\n>aren\'t part of objective reality.\n\nI am a relativist who would like to answer your question, but the way you\nphrase the question makes it unanswerable. The concepts of "right"\nand "wrong" (or "correct/incorrect" or "true/false") belong to the\ndomain of epistemological rather than moral questions. It makes no\nsense to ask if a moral position is right or wrong, although it is\nlegitimate to ask if it is good (or better than another position).\n\nLet me illustrate this point by looking at the psychological derivatives\nof epistemology and ethics: perception and motivation, respectively.\nOne can certainly ask if a percept is "right" (correct, true,\nveridical) or "wrong" (incorrect, false, illusory). But it makes little\nsense to ask if a motive is true or false. On the other hand, it is\nstrange to ask whether a percept is morally good or evil, but one can\ncertainly ask that question about motives.\n\nTherefore, your suggested answers (a)-(c) simply can\'t be considered:\nthey assume you can judge the correctness of a moral judgment.\n\nNow the problem with (d) is that it is double-barrelled: I agree with\nthe first part (that the "rightness" of a moral position is a\nmeaningless question), for the reasons stated above. But that is\nirrelevant to the alleged implication (not an implication at all) that\none cannot feel peace is better than war. I certainly can make\nvalue judgments (bad, better, best) without asserting the "correctness"\nof the position.\n\nSorry for the lengthy dismissal of (a)-(d). My short (e) answer is\nthat when two individuals grotesquely disagree on a moral issue,\nneither is right (correct) or wrong (incorrect). They simply hold\ndifferent moral values (feelings).\n-----------------------------------\nJohn A. Johnson (J5J@psuvm.psu.edu)\nDepartment of Psychology Penn State DuBois Campus 15801\nPenn State is not responsible for my behavior.\n"A ruthless, doctrinaire avoidance of degeneracy is a degeneracy of\n another sort. Getting drunk and picking up bar-ladies and writing\n metaphysics is a part of life." - from _Lila_ by R. Pirsig\n',
"From: menchett@dws012.unr.edu (Peter J Menchetti)\nSubject: Re: Why does Illustrator AutoTrace so poorly?\nOrganization: University of Nevada, Reno Department of Computer Science\nLines: 8\n\n\nI use Arts & Letters on a PC and if you make use of the Tracing Preferences\nit traces beautifully. BUT - there's a trick to tracing. I've traced entire\ncartoon images into custom clip art, but you can't expect to just point to\nthe image and get it just like that, it takes a little work (in some cases\na lot of work). You need to trace a drawing piece by piece, and then put it \ntogether... it's kinda hard to explain in type, but if you're ever in Reno\nI can give you a little demonstration!\n",
'From: mserv@mozart.cc.iup.edu (Mail Server)\nSubject: Christian Homosexuality (part 2 of 2)\nLines: 226\n\n(This is a continuation of an earlier post)\n\nmls@panix.com (Michael Siemon) writes:\n>For those Christians who *do* think that *some* parts of Leviticus can\n>be "law" for Christians (while others are not even to be thought about)\n>it is incumbent on you *in every case, handled on its own merits* to\n>determine why you "pick" one and ignore another. I frankly think the\n>whole effort misguided. Reread Paul: "No doubt I am free to do anything."\n>But Christians have a criterion to use for making our judgments on this,\n>the Great Commandment of love for God and neighbor. If you cannot go\n>through Leviticus and decide each "command" there on that basis, then\n>your own arbitrary selection from it is simply idiosyncracy. In this\n>context, it is remarkably offensive to say:\n> \n>>I notice that the verse forbidding bestiality immediately follows the\n>>verse prohibiting what appears to be homosexual intercourse.\n\n(I am sorry you found this offensive. It was not my intent to offend. I was \nleading up to another point, which I discuss in more detail below.)\n\n>Well, la-ti-da. So what? This is almost as slimey an argument as the\n>one that homosexuality == rape. I know of no one who argues seriously\n>(though one can always find jokers) in "defense" of bestiality. It is\n>absolutely irrelevant and incomparable to the issues gay Christians *do*\n>raise (which concern sexual activity within committed, consensual human\n>adult realtionships), so that your bringing it up is no more relevant\n>than the laws of kashrut. If you cannot address the actual issues, you\n>are being bloody dishonest in trailing this red herring in front of the\n>world. If *you* want to address bestiality, that is YOUR business, not\n>mine. And attempting to torpedo a serious issue by using what is in\n>our culture a ridiculous joke shows that you have no interest in hearing\n>us as human beings. You want to dismiss us, and use the sleaziest means\n>you can think of to do so.\n\nI can see you have a revulsion for bestiality that far exceeds my distaste for \nhomosexuality. Certainly if I spoke about homosexuality the way you speak of \nbestiality, nobody would have any trouble labelling me a homophobe. Let me ask \nthis gently: why are you so judgemental of other people\'s sexual preferences? \nWhat happened to "No doubt I am free to do anything"? I think you have a \nserious double standard here. When you describe a comparison between \nhomosexuality and bestiality as "slimey" and "sleazy", you are making an \nimplicit judgement that bestiality is perverted, sinful, disgusting, \nunnatural--in short, all the things that society once thought about \nhomosexuality. Not all people share your view. You claim not to know any \nsincere zoophiles, but this does not mean that they do not exist. They even \nhave their own newsgroup: alt.sex.bestiality. Are you going to accuse them \nall of being mere "jokers"?\n\nI notice you deleted the main point of my comment: the fact that the only \nBiblical condemnations of bestiality occur in connection with the Levitical \nprohibitions against homosexuality. While there are some New Testament \npassages that can arguably be taken as condemning homosexuality, there are none \nthat condemn bestiality. One of your main points seems to be that Christian \nhomosexuality is acceptable due to the lack of any "clear" New Testament \nstatements against it; if this is a valid argument, then should not Christian \nzoophilia be made that much more acceptable by the fact that the New Testament \nmakes no reference, clear or unclear, to the subject at all?\n\nI am quite serious here. If I am going to accept homosexuality as Biblically \nacceptable on the basis of your arguments, then I am going to be fair and apply \nthe same standards to everyone else\'s declared sexual preferences as well. If \nthe arguments you make for homosexuality can be applied to other sexual \npreferences as well, I\'m going to apply them and see what comes up. I\'m not \ntrying to "torpedo a serious issue" by using what you label "a ridiculous \njoke". I posted a question about how we should interpret Biblical guidelines \nfor Christian sexuality, and I don\'t think such a question is "irrelevant" in a \ngroup called "soc.religion.christian". The Bible discusses homosexuality and \nbestiality together in the same context, and therefore I feel I have a good \nprecedent for doing the same.\n\n>Jesus and Paul both expound, very explictly and in considerable length,\n>the central linch-pin of Christian moral thought: we are required to\n>love one another, and ALL else depends on that. Gay and lesbian Christ-\n>ians challenge you to address the issue on those terms -- and all we get\n>in return are cheap debate tricks attempting to side-track the issues.\n\nI don\'t know whether it makes any difference, but for the record, this is not a \nside issue for me. I believe loving one another includes not encouraging \npeople to defile themselves, therefore it is of high importance to determine \nwhether God regards certain sexual acts as defiling. I can read in the New \nTestament that "God has joined together" heterosexual couples, and that the \nmarriage bed is undefiled. I can read in the Old Testament that homosexual \nintercourse and bestiality defile a person whether or not that person is under \nthe Law. If gay Christians can validly put aside the Old Testament standards \nof defilement, then I want to know so that I can fairly apply it to all the \nsexual practices that defiled a person in the old days. I don\'t think it\'s \nright to take just bits and pieces of the Law and try and apply them to \nChristians today, e.g. bestiality still defiles you but homosexuality doesn\'t. \nThat was pretty much what you said earlier, right? You used different \nexamples, but I think you said essentially the same thing about it being wrong \nto apply only certain parts of the Law to Christians. \n\n>Christians, no doubt very sincere ones, keep showing up here and in every\n>corner of USENET and the world, and ALL they ever do is spout these same\n>old verses (which they obviously have never thought about, maybe never\n>even read), in TOTAL ignorance of the issues raised, slandering us with\n>the vilest charges of child abuse or whatever their perfervid minds can\n>manage to conjure up, tossing out red herrings with (they suppose) great\n>emotional force to cause readers to dismiss our witness without even\n>taking the trouble to find out what it is.\n\nIt was not my intent to stir up such an emotional reaction. I personally don\'t \nget all that upset discussing alternatives to the monogamous heterosexual \norientation; I\'m afraid I naively assumed that others would have a similar \nattitude. Please note that I have never intended to equate homosexuality with \nchild abuse. I have merely noted that, for all the lack of "clear" NT \ncondemnation of homosexuality, there is an even greater lack of NT condemnation \n(or even mention) of bestiality, a practice which a number of people (e.g. on \nalt.sex.bestiality) consider to be their true sexual orientation.\n\n>Such behavior should shame anyone who claims to have seen Truth in Christ.\n>WHY, for God\'s precious sake, do you people quote irrelevant verses to\n>condemn people you don\'t know and won\'t even take the trouble to LISTEN\n>to BEFORE you start your condemnations? Is that loving your neighbor?\n>God forbid! Is THAT how you obey the repeated commands to NOT judge or\n>condemn others? Christ and Paul spend ORDERS OF MAGNITUDE more time in\n>insisting on this than the half-dozen obscure words in Paul that you are\n>SO bloody ready to take as license to do what God tells you NOT to do.\n> \n>Why, for God\'s sake?\n> [quote from John 3:17ff omitted for brevity]\n\nThis is an excellent question, and I pray that you will not treat it as a mere \nrhetorical question, but will genuinely seek to discover and understand the \nanswer. I recommend you begin with a little introspection into why you \nyourself have much the same attitude towards zoophilia. Why do you find \nbestiality so repugnant that you regard it as slanderous to even mention in \nconnection with other alternative sexual orientations? Why do you not apply \nall the same verses about love and tolerance to zoophiles the way you apply \nthem to homosexuals?\n\nIs it because you automatically experience a subjective feeling of revulsion at \nthe thought? A lot of people have the same experience at the thought of \nhomosexual intercourse. Is it because you regard the practice as socially \nunacceptable? A lot of people regard homosexuality as socially unacceptable. \nDo you feel that it violates the traditional Judeo-Christian standard of sexual \nmorality? Many people feel that homosexuality does. Do you feel the Bible \ncondemns it? Many people think the Bible says more to condemn homosexuality \nthan it does to condemn bestiality. Why then do you think comparing bestiality \nwith homosexuality is insulting to homosexuality? If you can honestly answer \nthis question, you will have come a long way towards understanding why many \npeople feel the same way about homosexuality as you feel about bestiality.\n\nAlso please note that I am not in any sense condemning *people*. I am merely \npointing out that when I read the Bible I see certain sexual *practices* that \nthe Bible appears to condemn, e.g. sex outside of marriage. When I say I think \nadultery and pre-marital sex are sinful, do you take that as me failing to love \nmy neighbor? When you treat bestiality as something disgusting and \nunmentionable, are you disobeying "repeated orders not to judge or condemn \nothers"? When you say other Christians are guilty of sinning by condemning you \nand judging you, are you by that accusation making yourself guilty of the same \noffense? Or are you and I both simply taking note about *practices* the Bible \nbrands as sinful, and leaving the judgement of the *people* up to God?\n\n>For long ages, we (many of us) have been confused by evil counsel from\n>evil men and told that if we came to the light we would be shamed and\n>rejected. Some of us despaired and took to courses that probably *do*\n>show a sinful shunning of God\'s light. Blessed are those whose spirits\n>have been crushed by the self-righteous; they shall be justified.\n>\n>However, we have seen the Truth, and the Truth is the light of humanity;\n>and we now know that it is not WE who fear the light, but our enemies who\n>fear the light of our witness and will do everything they can to shadow\n>it with the darkness of false witness against us.\n>-- \n>Michael L. Siemon I say "You are gods, sons of the\n>mls@panix.com Most High, all of you; nevertheless\n> - or - you shall die like men, and fall\n>mls@ulysses.att..com like any prince." Psalm 82:6-7\n\nI\'m not sure what you mean by the above two paragraphs. If you mean that Jesus \nis the Truth, and that He accepts sinners, and does not reject them, then I \nagree. If we were not sinners, then we would not *need* a Savior. Our \nsalvation in Christ, however, does not mean that sin is now irrelevant for us, \nand we can now do whatever we want. Nor does Christ\'s grace mean that those \nwho refer to sin as "sin" are being judgemental or intolerant. I am speaking \nin general terms here, not specifically about homosexuality. If the Bible \ncalls something "sin", then it is not unreasonable for Christians to call it \nsin too.\n\nAs applied to Christian homosexuality, I think the only definitive authority on \nChristian sexuality is the Bible. If you make a list of everything the Bible \nsays on the subject of homosexual intercourse, I think you will find that every \nverse on the list is negative and condemning at worst, and "unclear" at best. \nThe most pro-gay statement you could make about the list is that there is some \ndispute about the New Testament verses which many people interpret as \ncondemning homosexual intercourse. That is, from a gay perspective, the most \npositive thing you can say about the Bible\'s treatment of homosexuality is that \nsome verses fail to clearly condemn it. That\'s it. Jesus declared all foods \nclean, the council at Jerusalem declared that Gentiles were not required to \nkeep the ritual Law, but nobody ever reclassified homosexual intercourse from \nbeing an abomination deserving of death to being an accepted Christian \npractice. You have verses describing homosexual intercourse as an abomination \nthat defiles both Jews under the Law and Gentiles not under the Law, and you \nhave some verses which are at best "not clear" but which some people believe \n*are* clear in their condemnation of homosexual behavior, and that\'s the sum \ntotal of what the Bible says about same-sex intercourse.\n\nI can appreciate (from personal experience) your desire to have everything \nsimple, cut-and-dried, black-and-white, what-I-want- is-ok, and \nthose-who-oppose-me-are-wicked. However, I do not think the Bible makes your \ncase as definitively as you would like it to. In fact, I don\'t believe it says \nanything positive about your case at all. Yes, I know the verses about loving \none another, and not judging one another, but that\'s not really the issue, is \nit? You know and admit that there are still things that are sinful for \nChristians to do, since you say it is wrong for Christians to condemn you. \nTherefore, the issue is whether the Bible says homosexual intercourse is a sin. \nEven if you do challenge the clarity of the New Testament verses, you are still \nleft with the fact that the only thing the Bible does say clearly about \nhomosexual intercourse is that it is an abomination that defiles both those who \nare under the law and those who are not.\n\n- Mark\n\n\n[Actually I don\'t think the reaction to the comparision with\nbestiality is based on bestialophobia. I think what he regards as\nslimey is the rhetorical approach of connecting homosexuality and\nbestiality. Most people who accept homosexuality take a radical\napproach to the Law. They regard all of Lev as not binding on\nChristians. The argument is that there\'s no way in the text to\nseparate bestiality, homosexuality, and wearing mixed fabrics. This\ndoes not mean that such people have no limits on their conduct, nor\ndoes it mean that they accept bestiality. It simply means that their\nsexual ethics does not come from the Law, and particularly not from\nLev. --clh]\n',
"From: tgk@cs.toronto.edu (Todd Kelley)\nSubject: Re: Faith and Dogma\nOrganization: Department of Computer Science, University of Toronto\nLines: 56\n\n>In <1r1mr8$eov@aurora.engr.LaTech.edu> ray@engr.LaTech.edu (Bill Ray)\n>wrote:\n>\n>Faith and dogma are inevitable. Christians merely understand and admit\n>to the fact. Give me your proof that no God exists, or that He does. \n>Whichever position you take, you are forced to do it on faith. It does\n>no good to say you take no position, for to show no interest in the \n>existence of God is to assume He does not exist.\n\nConsider special relativity. It hasn't be proved, nor has it been\ndisproved. No one has a proof one way or the other, but many people\nare interested in it!\n \nI've satisfied myself that nothing could indicate absolutely the\nexistence of God one way or the other. The two possibilities\nare supernaturalism and naturalism. Of course no set of circumstances can\nbe inconsistent with supernaturalism, but similarly, no set of circumstances\ncan be inconsistent with naturalism. In naturalism, any phenomenon that\ncould be described as God is considered part of the natural world, to\nbe studied as any other natural phenomenon (gravity, for instance). \nFor example, if a loud ``godlike'' voice vociferously announced, ``I\nam God, I exist, and I will prove it by reversing the force of gravity,''\nand if then gravity did indeed reverse, a naturalist (probably a scientist)\nwould say, ``Boy, we sure didn't understand gravity as well as we\nthought we did, and that loud voice is something new. Perhaps we\ndidn't understand thunder as well as we thought we did either.''\n\n>I contend that proper implementation of the Christian faith requires\n>reasoning, but that reasoning cannot be used to throw out things you\n>don't like, or find uncomfortable. Hedonistic sexual behavior is \n>condemned in the Bible and no act of true reason will make it any\n>less condemned. Hatred, murder, gossip; all these are condemned.\n>Is there God-ordained murder in the Bible? You bet, and if God ever\n>orders me to kill you, I will. But I will first use the Gideon-like\n>behavior of verifying that God actually ordered the hit, and will \n>probably discuss it in an Abram-like fashion.\n\nI'm sure glad you don't know where I live, since you don't seem\nto realize it is impossible for you to distinguish between voices\nin your head, and God's voice.\n\n>I can hear you now, this is how Jim Jones and David Koresh justify\n>their behavior. Delusional religious cults bear the same relationship \n>to Christianity that rape bears to consentual sex: form but no substance.\n>When the Southern Baptist Church or the Methodist Church begin to do this\n>then you have reason to blame mainstream religion for the behaviors of these\n>people. Or should I associate every negative behavior I witness in any\n>non-Christian with you?\n\nYou seem to have missed my point. Even if Jim Jones and David Koresh\nwere not religious people, my point remains that faith and dogma\nare dangerous, and religion encourages them. Jim Jones and David Koresh\nalso encouraged them. My point does not rely on Jim Jones and David\nKoresh being religious.\n\nTodd\n",
'From: alan@saturn.cs.swin.OZ.AU (Alan Christiansen)\nSubject: Re: Fast polygon routine needed\nOrganization: Swinburne University of Technology\nLines: 49\nNNTP-Posting-Host: saturn.cs.swin.oz.au\nKeywords: polygon, needed\n\nosprey@ux4.cso.uiuc.edu (Lucas Adamski) writes:\n\n>In article <7306@pdxgate.UUCP> idr@rigel.cs.pdx.edu (Ian D Romanick) writes:\n>>What kind of polygons? Shaded? Texturemapped? Hm? More comes into play with\n>>fast routines than just "polygons". It would be nice to know exaclty what\n>>system (VGA is a start, but what processor?) and a few of the specifics of the\n>>implementation. You need to give more info if you want to get any answers! :P\n\n>I don\'t want texture mapped, cause if I did I\'d asked for them. :) Just\n>a simple and fast routine to do filled polygons. As for the processor, it\'d\n>be for a minimum of a 286... maybe 386 if I can\'t find a good one for 286s.\n>Ideally, I want a polyn function that can clip to a user-defined viewport,\n>and write to an arbitrary location in memory. Of course the chances of\n\nOk It is for a game that is 3d and you have listed the characteristics \nthat you are looking for. I think you may have left out a few \nimportant parameters. \nThe polygons are all convex. \nThey have less than N sides. (you are drawing meshes walls doors etc.)\n\nI believe that the algorithms you can get that will only draw convex\npolygons can be much more efficient than those that can draw\nconcave / self intersecting polygons. \nThis efficiency can largely be attributed to the fact that \nsimple convex polygons only have a left and a right edge on each scan line.\nComplex (figure 8 type polygons) can be a bit trickier.\n\nThe less than N sides specification especially if it is a very small \nnumber like 3 or 4 allow othe optimisations to be made.\n\nThus for a high speed game application I think you are looking for\ncode that exploits and is hence limited to drawing simple convex\npolygons. \n\n>finding something like that are pretty remote, so I guess I\'d need the source\n>with it. Oh, and I guess it would need to be in ASM otherwise it\'d be too\n>slow. I\'ve seen some polygon routines in C, and they\'ve all been waaay too\n>slow. Its for a 3D vector graphics program. I\'ve been hunting high and low\n\nIt may have been that they were very general purpose algorithms.\nIf you limit yourself to 3 or four sided simple convex polygons\nI think you might be suprised how fast a c algorithm with a \nasm block move to fill each scan line might actually be.\n\n\n>for a polyn function in ASM, and I can\'t find one anywhere that I can use.\n>I\'ve found one or two polyn functions, but my ASM is pretty bad, so I won\'t\n>even try to rewrite them. :)\n>\t\t//Lucas.\n',
"From: edimg@willard.atl.ga.us (Ed Pimentel)\nSubject: RFD: comp.multimedia.open-telematic\nOrganization: Willard's House BBS, Atlanta, GA -- +1 (404) 664 8814\nLines: 53\nNNTP-Posting-Host: rodan.uu.net\n\n RFD\n Request For Discussion\n for the\n OPEN TELEMATIC GROUP\n\n OTG\n\nI have proposed the forming of a consortium/task force for the\npromotion of NAPLPS/JPEG, FIF to openly discuss ways, method,\nprocedures,algorythms, applications, implementation, extensions of\nNAPLPS/JPEG standards. These standards should facilitate the creation\nof REAL_TIME Online applications that make use of Voice, Video,\nTelecommuting, HiRes graphics, Conferencing, Distant Learning, Online\norder entry, Fax,in addition these dicussion would assist all to\nbetter understand how SGML, CALS, ODA, MIME, OODBMS, JPEG, MPEG,\nFRACTALS, SQL, CDrom, cdromXA, Kodak PhotoCD, TCL, V.FAST, and\nEIA/TIA562, can best be incorporated and implemented to develop\nTELEMATIC/Multimedia applications.\n\nWe want to be able to support DOS, UNIX, MAC, WINDOWS, NT, OS/2\nplatforms. It is our hope that individuals, developers, corporations,\nUniversities, R & D labs would join in in supporting such an endeavor.\n\nThis would be a NOT_FOR_PROFIT group with bylaws and charter. Already\nmany corporations have decided to support OTG (Open TELEMATIC Group) so\ndo not delay joining if you are a developer\n\nAn RFD has been posted to form a usenet newsgroup and a FAQ will soon\nbe be composed to start promulgating what is known on the subject. If\nyou would like to be added to the maillist send email or mail to the\naddress below.\n\nThis group would publish an electronic quarterly NAPLPS/JPEG\nnewsletter as well as a hardcopy version. We urge all who wants to\nsee CMCs HiRes based applications & the NAPLPS/JPEG G R O W, decide to\njoin and mutually benefit from this NOT-FOR_PROFIT endeavor.\n\nNOTE: Telematic has been defined by Mr. James Martin as the marriage\n of Voice, Video, Hi-res Graphics, Fax, IVR, Music over telephone\n lines/LAN.\n\nIf you would like to get involve write to me at:\n\n IMG Inter-Multimedia Group| Internet: epimntl@world.std.com\n P.O. Box 95901 | ed.pimentel@gisatl.fidonet.org\n Atlanta, Georgia, US | CIS : 70611,3703\n | FidoNet : 1:133/407\n | BBS : +1-404-985-1198 zyxel 14.4k\n-- \nedimg@willard.atl.ga.us (Ed pimentel)\ngatech!kd4nc!vdbsan!willard!edimg\nemory!uumind!willard!edimg\nWillard's House BBS, Atlanta, GA -- +1 (404) 664 8814\n",
'From: smayo@world.std.com (Scott A Mayo)\nSubject: Re: Dreams and out of body incidents\nOrganization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA\nLines: 66\n\ndt4%cs@hub.ucsb.edu (David E. Goggin) writes:\n\n>I\'m fairly new to these groups, tho\' some have heard from me before.\nWelcome.\n\n>I\'d like to get your comments on a question that has been on my mind a\n>lot: What morals/ethics apply to dreams and out-of-body incidents?\n>In normal dreams, you can\'t control anything, so obviously\n>you aren\'t morally responsible for your actions.\n\nHm. I get a little queasy around the phrase "aren\'t morally \nresponsible", perhaps because I\'ve heard it misused so many times.\n(I remember in college some folk trying to argue that a person who\nwas drunk was not morally responsible for his actions.) In general,\nmost folk can\'t control their dreams, but perhaps what you do all day\nand think about has some impact on them, hm? And I\'m not sure what\n"actions" are in a dream. But I will note that Jesus does seem adamant\nabout the fact that our thought-life is at least as important as\nour actions. Go lightly with this argument - we are all morally\nresponsible for *who we are* and dreams might well be an important\npart of that.\n\n>Now, there seem to be 3 alternatives:\n>1) Dreams and OOBEs are totally mental phenomena. In this case no morality\n>applies beyond what might be called \'mental hygiene\', that is, not trying\n>to think about anything evil, or indulgining in overly sexy or violent\n>thoughts.\nI don\'t know a thing about Out Of Body Experiences. I\'ve had dreams, some\nfairly vivid ones; is an OOBE just a very vivid dream? I would argue that\nextreme interest in this sort of phenomena is a tad risky; it is probably\nmuch better to think about who Jesus is, and who we are in relation to that,\nthan to cultivate a strong interest in dreams. Unless you feel plagued by\ndreams that are painful and out of control; then pray about it and/or get help.\n\n>2) Dreams and OOBEs have a reality of their own (i.e. are \'another plane\')\n>Evidence for this is that often dreams and OOBEs are sometimes done in\n>common by more than one person.\nWhat on Earth is your definition of "often"? I know exactly one case of\ntwo people who had substantially the same dream at the same time, and\nas they were brothers who had spent the day doing the same things I could\nsee why their dreams might be similiar. Anyway, the only "other plane" I\nknow of is the spiritual realm. I don\'t think *anyone\'s* dreams,\nperhaps outside the occasional prophet\'s, represent actual actions on an\nalternate plane. If they were real actions, or conscious thoughts, then\nyes they would have direct moral significance.\n\n>3) Like (2), but here we assume that [garbled text: "because the dream occurs\nin a different environment, then different moral laws apply" is my guess of\nwhat you said.]\nI don\'t see the slightest hint in Christian writings that ones "environment"\nchanges the way a person determines what is moral. For a Christian won\'t\nit *always* come down to "what Jesus would have us do?"\n\n>So... There it is. Is one of these cases the truth, or does anyone know\n>of another alternative? respond by post or email.\nTruth? I don\'t claim to be an expert in dreams. I\'ll note that the Bible\ndoesn\'t talk much about dreams outside of the realm of God using them to speak\nto us, with the caveat that such messages are not always very clear, as it\nwarns somewhere in the OT. Given that, I would not give them a lot of\nattention unless you feel your dreams are trying to tell you something.\n\nI would discount talk of "alternate planes," though. The only places such\nconcepts are commonly bandied about are for the most part hostile to\nChristianity, though I\'ve run into the occasional exception. If you are,\nor want to be, a Christian, you want to be very careful about ideas like\nthis. \n',
"From: barkdoll@lepomis.psych.upenn.edu (Edwin Barkdoll)\nSubject: Re: thermogenics\nOrganization: University of Pennsylvania\nLines: 14\nNntp-Posting-Host: lepomis.psych.upenn.edu\n\nIn article <80389@cup.portal.com> mmm@cup.portal.com (Mark Robert Thorson) writes:\n>First off, if I'm not mistaken, only hibernating animals have brown fat,\n>not humans.\n\n\tHuman infants do have bown fat deposits while adult humans are\nbelieved not to have brown fat.\n\tAlso while brown fat may play an important role in rousing\nhibernators, it is definitely not limited to hibernating animals -- it\nis a common energy source for nonshivering thermogenesis.\n\n-- \nEdwin Barkdoll\nbarkdoll@lepomis.psych.upenn.edu\neb3@world.std.com\n",
'From: mserv@mozart.cc.iup.edu (Mail Server)\nSubject: Re: homosexual issues in Christianity\nLines: 83\n\nmls@panix.com (Michael Siemon) writes:\n>In <May.7.01.08.16.1993.14381@athos.rutgers.edu> \n>whitsebd@nextwork.rose-hulman.edu (Bryan Whitsell) writes:\n> \n>>Any one who thinks that Homosexuality and Christianity are compatible should \n>check \n>>out:\n>> Romans 1:27\n>> I Corinthians 6:9\n>> I Timothy 1:10\n>> Jude 1:7\n>> II Peter 2:6-9\n>> Gen. 19\n>> Lev 18:22\n>>(to name a few of the verses that pertain to homosexuality)\n> \n>Homosexual Christians have indeed "checked out" these verses. Some of\n>them are used against us only through incredibly perverse interpretations.\n>Others simply do not address the issues.\n\nI can see that some of the above verses do not clearly address the issues, \nhowever, a couple of them seem as though they do not require "incredibly \nperverse interpretations" in order to be seen as condemning homosexuality.\n\n"... Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolators, nor adulterers, \nnor effeminate, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, \nnor revilers, nor swindlers, shall inherit the kingdom of God. And such were \nsome of you..." I Cor. 6:9-11.\n\nWould someone care to comment on the fact that the above seems to say\nfornicators will not inherit the kingdom of God? How does this apply\nto homosexuals? I understand "fornication" to be sex outside of\nmarriage. Is this an accurate definition? Is there any such thing as\nsame-sex marriage in the Bible? My understanding has always been that\nthe New Testament blesses sexual intercourse only between a husband\nand his wife. I am, however, willing to listen to Scriptural evidence\nto the contrary.\n\n"You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an\nabomination. Also you shall not have intercourse with any animal to\nbe defiled with it, nor shall any woman stand before an animal to mate\nwith it; it is a perversion." Lev. 18:22-23.\n\nI notice that the verse forbidding bestiality immediately follows the\nverse prohibiting what appears to be homosexual intercourse. I know\nof no New Testament passages that clearly condemn, or even mention,\nintercourse with animals. Do those who argue for the legitimacy of\nhomosexual intercourse believe that the Bible condemns bestiality as a\nperversion, and if so, why? That is, what verses would you cite to\nprove that bestiality was perverted and sinful? Could the verses you\ncite be refuted by interpreting them differently? Can one be a\nChristian zoophile?\n\nBy the way, I myself am subject to sexual desires that I did not\nchoose to have and that many people would regard as perverted and\nsinful, so please understand that I am not asking these questions out\nof an antipathy towards my fellow "people of alternative\norientations". I do believe, however, that one should read the Bible\nwith an attitude of "what is the Bible trying to say" and not "what do\nI WANT the Bible to say." I choose not to give in to my "perverted"\nsexual desires because I believe the Bible tries to tell me, whether I\nlike it or not, that such things are sin. It is frustrating at times,\nand I have had days where it really got me down, but I don\'t blame God\nfor this, I blame the sin itself.\n\n- Mark\n\n[There\'s some ambiguity about the meaning of the words in the passage\nyou quote. Both liberal and conservative sources seem to agree that\n"homosexual" is not the general term for homosexuals, but is likely to\nhave a meaning like homosexual prostitute. That doesn\'t meant that I\nthink all the Biblical evidence vanishes, but the nature of the\nevidence is such that you can\'t just quote one verse and solve things.\n\nI think your argument from fornication is circular. Why is\nhomosexuality wrong? Because it\'s fornication. Why is it\nfornication? Because they\'re not married. Why aren\'t they married?\nBecause the church refuses to do a marriage ceremony. Why does the\nchurch refuse to do a marriage ceremony? Because homosexuality is\nwrong. In order to break the circle there\'s got to be some other\nreason to think homosexuality is wrong.\n\n--clh]\n',
"From: Randy_Faneuf@vos.stratus.com\nSubject: Urine analysis\nOrganization: Stratus Computer, Marlboro Ma.\nLines: 36\nNNTP-Posting-Host: m72.eng.stratus.com\n\n\n\n\n\n Someone please help me. I am searching to find out (as many others may)\nan absolute 'cure' to removing all detectable traces of marijuana from\na persons body. Is there a chemical or natural substance that can be\ningested or added to urine to make it undetectable in urine analysis.\nIf so where can these substances be found. \n\n If you know this information, please Email me directly\n \n Thank You Kindly for your support,\n\n\n Randy\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n",
'From: simon@dcs.warwick.ac.uk (Simon Clippingdale)\nSubject: Re: Americans and Evolution, now with free Ockham\'s Razor inside\nNntp-Posting-Host: nin\nOrganization: Department of Computer Science, Warwick University, England\nLines: 386\n\nSorry about the delay in responding, due to conference paper deadline panic.\n\nIn article <1qsnqqINN1nr@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU> bobs@thnext.mit.edu (Robert Singleton) writes:\n>In article <1993Apr18.043207.27862@dcs.warwick.ac.uk> \n>simon@dcs.warwick.ac.uk (Simon Clippingdale) writes:\n\n[Alarming amounts of agreement deleted :-)]\n\n> I made my statement about Ockums Razor from my experiences in physics. \n> Thanks for info in Baysian statistics - very interesting and I didn\'t\n> know it before. I follow your proof, but I have one questions. We have\n> two hypotheses H and HG - the latter is more "complicated", which by\n> definition means P(H) > P(HG).\n\nThat ("complicated") isn\'t in fact where P(H) > P(HG) comes from; it\'s more\nthe other way around. It\'s from\n\n P(H) = P(HG) + P(HG\') where G\' is the complement of G\n\nand by axiom, P(anything) >= 0, so P(HG\') >= 0, so P(H) >= P(HG).\n\nIn a sense, HG is necessarily more "complicated" than H for any H and G,\nso I may be splitting hairs, but what I\'m trying to say is that irrespective\nof subjective impressions of how complicated something is, P(H) >= P(HG)\nholds, with equality if and only if P(HG\') = 0.\n\n> As you point out, it\'s a very simple matter to show P(x | H) = P(x | HG)\n> ==> P(H | x) > P(HG | x), and thus H is to be preferd to HG. Now to say\n> that H is as consistent with the data as HG is to say P(x | H) = P(x | HG).\n> Can you elaborate some on this.\n\nWell, "P(x | A) = P(x | B)" means that x is as likely to be observed if A is\noperative as it is if B is operative. This implies that observing x does not\nprovide any useful information which might allow us to discriminate between\nthe respective possibilities that A and B are operative; the difference\nreduces to the difference between the (unknown and unhelpful) prior\nprobabilities P(A) and P(B):\n\n P(x | A) = P(x | B) ==>\n\n P(A | x) = k P(A), and P(B | x) = k P(B)\n\nwhere k = P(x | A) / P(x) = P(x | B) / P(x).\n\nSo A and B are "equally consistent with the data" in that observing x\ndoesn\'t give any pointers as to which of A or B is operative.\n\nIn the particular case where A = H and B = HG, however, we know that their\nprior probabilities are ordered by P(H) >= P(HG), although we don\'t know\nthe actual values, and it\'s this which allows us to deploy the Razor to\nthrow out any such HG.\n\n> Also, in the "real world" it isn\'t as clear cut and dry it seems \n> to me. We can\'t always determine whether the equality "P(x | H) = \n> P(x | HG)" is true. \n\nThat\'s certainly true, but the particular point here was whether or\nnot a `divine component\' actually underlies the prevalence of religion\nin addition to the memetic transmission component, which even the religious\nimplicitly acknowledge to be operative when they talk of `spreading the word\'.\n\nNow it seems to me, as I\'ve said, that the observed variance in religious\nbelief is well accounted for by the memetic transmission model, but rather\n*less* well if one proposes a `divine component\' in addition, since I would\nexpect the latter to conspire *against* wide variance and even mutual\nexclusion among beliefs. Thus my *personal* feeling is that P(x | HG) isn\'t\neven equal to P(x | H) in this case, but is smaller (H is memetic transmission,\nG is `divine component\', x is the variance among beliefs). But I happily\nacknowledge that this is a subjective impression.\n\n> BTW, my beef with your Baysian argument was not a mathematical one - \n> I checked most of your work and didn\'t find an error and you seem very \n> careful so there probably isn\'t a "math mistake". I think the mistake\n> is philosophical. But just to make sure I understand you, can please \n> rephrase it in non-technical terms? I think this is a reasonable \n> request - I always try to look for ways of explaining physics to \n> non-physicist. I\'m not a Baysian statistician (nor any type of \n> statistician), so this would be very helpful. \n\nNot that I\'m a statistician as such either, but:\n\nThe idea is that both theism and atheism are compatible with all of\nthe (read `my\') observations to date. However, theism (of the type with\nwhich I am concerned) *also* suggests that, for instance, prayer may be\nanswered, people may be miraculously healed (both are in principle amenable\nto statistical verification) and that god/s may generally intervene in\nmeasurable ways.\n\nThis means that these regions of the space of possible observations, \nwhich I loosely termed "appearances of god/s", have some nonzero\nprobability under the theistic hypothesis and zero under the atheistic.\n\nSince there is only so much probability available for each hypothesis to\nscatter around over the observation space, the probability which theism\nexpends on making "appearances of god/s" possible must come from somewhere\nelse (i.e. other possible observations).\n\nAll else being equal, this means that an observation which *isn\'t* an\n"appearance of god/s" must have a slightly higher probability under\natheism than under theism. The Bayesian stuff implies that such\nobservations must cause my running estimate for the probability of\nthe atheistic hypothesis to increase, with a corresponding decrease\nin my running estimate for the probability of the theistic hypothesis.\n\nSorry if that\'s still a bit jargonesque, but it\'s rather difficult to\nput it any other way, since it does depend intimately on the properties\nof conditional probability densities, and particularly that the total\narea under them is always unity.\n\nAn analogy may (or may not :-) be helpful. Say that hypothesis A is "the\ncoin is fair", and that B is "the coin is unfair (two-headed)". (I\'ve\nused A and B to avoid confusion with H[heads] and T[tails].)\n\nThen\n\n P(H | A) = 0.5 } total 1\n P(T | A) = 0.5 }\n\n P(H | B) = 1 } total 1\n P(T | B) = 0 }\n\nThe observations are a string of heads, with no tails. This is compatible\nwith both a fair coin (A) and a two-headed coin (B). However, the probability\nexpended by A on making possible the appearance of tails (even though they\ndon\'t actually appear) must come from somewhere else, since the total must\nbe unity, and it comes in this case from the probability of the appearance\nof heads.\n\nSay our running estimates at time n-1 are e[n-1](A) and e[n-1](B). The\nobservation x[n] at time n is another head, x[n] = H. The estimates are\nmodified according to\n\n P(H | A)\n e[n](A) = e[n-1](A) * -------- = e[n-1](A) * m\n P(H)\n\nand\n\n P(H | B)\n e[n](B) = e[n-1](B) * -------- = e[n-1](B) * 2m\n P(H)\n\nNow we don\'t know P(H), the *actual* prior probability of a head, but\nthe multiplier for e(A) is half that for e(B). This is true every time\nthe coin is tossed and a head is observed.\n\nThus whatever the initial values of the estimates, after n heads, we have\n\n n\n e[n](A) = m e[0](A)\n\nand\n n\n e[n](B) = (2m) e[0](B),\n\nand since e[k](A) + e[k](B) = 1 at any time k, you can show that 0.5 < m < 1\nand thus 1 < 2m < 2. Hence the estimate for the fair-coin hypothesis A must\ndecrease at each trial and that for the two-headed coin hypothesis B must\nincrease, even though both hypotheses are compatible with a string of heads.\n\nThe loose analogy is between "unfair coin" and atheism, and between "fair\ncoin" and theism, with observations consistent with both. A tail, which\nwould falsify "unfair coin", is analogous to an "appearance of god/s",\nwhich would falsify atheism. I am *not* claiming that the analogy extends\nto the numerical values of the various probabilities, just that the principle\nis the same.\n\n>> Constant observation of no evidence for gods, if evidence for them \n> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^\n>> is at all possible under the respective theisms, constantly increases\n> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^\n>> the notional estimated probability that they don\'t exist, \n\n> It\'s important to draw a distinction between theism that could\n> be supported or not supported by evidence and theism that can\'t.\n> Given a theism for which evidence is in principle not possible,\n> it doesn\'t make sense to say "lack of evidence" supports the contrary \n> view.\n\nQuite so, but this type of theism is what I might call "the G in the HG",\nin terms of our Ockham\'s Razor discussion, and I\'d bin it on those grounds.\n\n> So it depends upon your conception of this god. If it\'s a conception \n> like Zeus, who happened to come down to earth to "play" quite \n> frequently, then I agree with you - lack of evidence for this conception \n> of god is evidence that it does not exist. But if your conception\n> of God is one that does not make falsifiable predictions (see below\n> on "falsifiable predictions"), then I disagree -- lack of evidence\n> does not support a disbelief. \n\nThe hypotheses don\'t have to be falsifiable, and indeed in my `model\',\nthe theism isn\'t falsifiable.\n\n> [...]\n\n> I used the phrase "SHOULD obverse". Given any specific \'x\' theism \n> does not make the prediction "P(x | Ht) > 0". That\'s why I used the \n> word "should" - theism makes no predictions about any specific event.\n> I can only say "I believe" that God did such and such after such\n> and such happens, or "I believe God will" do such and such. But\n> for any given \'x\' I can never, a priori, say P(x | Ht) > 0. I can\n> not even say this for the set of all \'x\' or some \'x\'. This is what \n> don\'t like about your use of probability. We also have no way of\n> assigning these probabilities - I hold science to positivistic\n> criteria - if someone cannot tell me how to measure, even in principle,\n> P(x | H), then probability is not applicable to hypothesis H. Such\n> is the case when H = Ht (theistic) and Ha (atheistic). For example,\n> P(x | Ha) = P(x & Ha)/P(Ha). What is P(Ha)?!? How do I measure it? \n\nYou don\'t have to. We don\'t need, in the above analogy, to know *any*\nprior probabilities to deduce that the updating multiplier for the\nfair-coin hypothesis is less than unity, and that the corresponding\nmultiplier for the two-headed coin hypothesis is greater than unity.\nYou don\'t need to know the initial values of the running estimates\neither. It\'s clear that after a large number of observations, P(fair-coin)\napproaches zero and P(two-headed-coin) approaches unity.\n\nAll you need to know is whether P(x | Ha) is larger than P(x | Ht) for\nobserved x, and this follows from the assumptions that there are certain\nevents rendered *possible* (not necessary) under Ht which are not possible\nunder Ha, and all else is equal.\n\n> Baysian statistics relies upon a series of observations. But\n> what if the hypothesis isn\'t amenable to observation? And even for\n> statements that are amenable to observation, some observations are\n> not relevant -- a sequence of observations must be chosen with care.\n> I\'m curious to know what types of observations x[1],x[2],... you have \n> in mind concerning theism and atheism.\n\nAny observations you like; it really doesn\'t matter, nor affect the\nreasoning, provided that there are some possible observations which\nwould count as "appearances of god/s". Examples of this might be\na demonstration of the efficacy of prayer, or of the veracity of\nrevelation.\n\n>> But any statement about P(x | H) for general x still counts as a \n>> prediction of H. If the theism in question, Ht, says that prayer may \n>> be answered, or that miracles may happen (see my interpretation, quoted \n>> again above, of what `God exists\' means), then this is a prediction, \n>> P(x | Ht) > 0 for such x. It\'s what distinguishes it from the atheist \n>> hypothesis Ha, which predicts that this stuff does not happen, P(x | Ha)\n>> = 0 for such x.\n\n> Theism does not make the claim that "P(x | Ht) > 0 for such x".\n> Or I should say that my "theism" doesn\'t. Maybe I was too quick to\n> say we had a common language. You said that by the existence of God \n> you "mean the notion that the deity described by the Bible and by \n> Christians *does* interact with the universe as claimed by those agents".\n> I agreed with this. However, I must be careful here. I BELIEVE\n> this - I\'m not making any claims. Maybe I should have changed *does*\n> to *can* - there is an important shift of emphasis. But any way,\n> since I "only" have a belief, I cannot conclude "P(x | Ht) > 0 for \n> such x".\n\nOK, we\'ll downgrade "*does* interact" to "*may* interact", which would\nactually be better since "does interact" implies a falsifiability which\nwe both agree is misplaced.\n\n> I don\'t think my theism makes "predictions". Maybe I\'m not\n> understanding what you mean by "prediction" - could you explain what\n> you mean by this word?\n\nI\'ll explain, but bear in mind that this isn\'t central; all I require of\na theism is that it *not* make the prediction "Appearances of god/s will\nnever happen", as does atheism. (Before somebody points out that quantum\nmechanics doesn\'t make this prediction either, the difference is that\nQM and atheism do not form a partition.)\n\nPredictions include such statements as "Prayer is efficacious" (implying\n"If you do the stats, you will find that Prayer is efficacious"), or "Prayer\nis *not* efficacious", or "Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not\npass, till all these things be fulfilled." I don\'t think we have any problems\nof misunderstanding here.\n\n>> Persistent observation of this stuff not happening, *consistent* with\n>> Ht though it may be, is *more* consistent with Ha, as explained in the\n>> Bayesian stats post. \n>>\n>> Even if Ht ("God exists") is unfalsifiable, that\'s\n>> no problem for my argument, other than that you have to let the number \n>> of observations go to infinity to falsify it asymptotically. \n\n> BTW, I do not consider an argument that requires an infinite number of \n> observations as valid - or rather that part of the argument is not valid. \n> We, as existing humans, can never make an infinite number of measurments \n> and any conclusion that reilies on this I don\'t accept as valid.\n\nThat\'s fine; I don\'t claim that theism is false, merely that the [finite\nnumber of] observations available to me so far suggest that it is, and\nthat as I continue to observe, the suggestion looks better and better.\n\n> [Renormalization stuff deleted]\n\n>> In the Bayesian stats post, I assumed that theism was indeed unfalsifiable\n>> in a finite number of observations. Here\'s the relevant quote:\n>> \n>> $ The important assumption is that there are *some* observations which \n>> $ are compatible with the theist hypothesis and not with the atheist \n>> $ hypothesis, and thus would falsify atheism; these are what I called \n>> $`appearances of god/s\', but this need not be taken too literally. Any \n>> $ observation which requires for its explanation that one or more gods \n>> $ exist will count. All other observations are assumed to be compatible \n>> $ with both hypotheses. This leaves theism as unfalsifiable, and atheism \n>> $ as falsifiable in a single observation only by such `appearances of \n>> $ god/s\'.\n\n> Here is my problem with this. For something to be falsifiable it\n> must make the prediction that \'x\' should not be seen. If \'x\' is \n> seen then the hypothesis has been falsified. Now, atheism is a word \n> in oposition to something - theism. A theism aserts a belief and an \n> atheism aserts a disbelief. So there are certain atheisms that are \n> certainly falsifiable - just as there are certain theisms that are \n> falsifable (e.g. if my theism asserts the world is only 6,000 years \n> old and that God does not decieve then this has been falsified). However, \n> the atheism that is in oposition to an unfalsifiable theism is also \n> unfalsifiable. I could be wrong on this statment - [...contd]\n\nI think you are; an "appearance of god/s" is sufficient to falsify\natheism, whereas in general the corresponding theism is unfalsifiable.\n\n> I\'ll think more about it. Until then, here is a general question.\n> Suppse X were unfalsifiable. Is not(X) also unfalsifiable? \n\nNo: by way of a counterexample, let X = "the coin is fair", or more\naccurately (so that not(X) makes sense) "the two sides of the coin are\ndifferent". This is unfalsifiable by tossing the coin; even a string of\nheads is consistent with a fair coin, and you have to go to an infinite\nnumber of tosses to falsify X in the limit. Its converse is falsifiable,\nand is falsified when at least one head and at least one tail have appeared.\n\n>>> This is partly what\'s wrong with you Baysian argument - which \n>>> requires observations x[1] ... x[n] to be made. There are simply \n>>> no such observations that have a truth value in relation to the \n>>> statement "God exists". Now, by use of your symmetry argument, I \n>>> can understand why someone would say "Since the statement \n>>> \'God does not exist\'\n>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~\n>>> makes no predictions I will choose not to believe it." But none\n>>> the less this would be founded on a type of faith - or if you don\'t\n>>> like the word faith insert "belief for which there is no falsifiable\n>>> evidence" instead. \n\n>> I\'ll assume you meant `God exists\' up there at the highlight. But by our\n>> agreed definition of "exists", the statement makes predictions as I said\n>> above, although it isn\'t falsifiable in a finite number of observations.\n\n> Actually, I mean \'God does not exist\' makes no predictions.\n\nOops. Sorry. Mea culpa.\n\n> The truth of this statment actually depends upon which god you are\n> refering to. But I can think of some conceptions of God for which \n> it is true. But once again I\'m open to the posibility that I could\n> be wrong. So give me some examples of predictions of the statment\n> "God does not exist". Here is one that I can think of. If true, then \n> there would be no healing or miricles. But this can in principle never \n> be determined one way or the other. There are cases in which people \n> seem to recover and are healed without the help of a doctor and for no \n> known reason. These situations do in fact happen. They are consistent\n> with a theistic hypothesis, but IN NO WAY support such a hypothesis.\n\nWe agree here.\n\n> They are not inconsistent with an atheistic hypothesis. I can\'t\n> think of one "prediction" from \'God does not exist\' that isn\'t of\n> this type. But I might be missing something. \n\n"The Rapture will not happen on October 28 1992." Said Rapture would have\nfalsified atheism to my satisfaction had it happened, although its failure\nto happen does not, of course, falsify any theisms other than those which\nspecifically predicted it.\n\n"No phenomenon which requires the existence of one or more gods for its\nexplanation will ever be observed." That about sums the whole thing up.\n\n> bob singleton\n> bobs@thnext.mit.edu\n\nCheers\n\nSimon\n-- \nSimon Clippingdale simon@dcs.warwick.ac.uk\nDepartment of Computer Science Tel (+44) 203 523296\nUniversity of Warwick FAX (+44) 203 525714\nCoventry CV4 7AL, U.K.\n',
"From: whitsebd@nextwork.rose-hulman.edu (Bryan Whitsell)\nSubject: homosexuals\nReply-To: whitsebd@nextwork.rose-hulman.edu\nOrganization: News Service at Rose-Hulman\nLines: 17\n\nSeveral replies to my post have said that I should get to know \nChristian homosexuals before judging them. I maintain that I was not \njudging them by saying that homosexuality is wrong. I would like to \nlook at the responces to my post and make a general sterotypical \nevaluation of the people who responded to the side of Christianity \nand homosexuality being compatible (admitedly not all are homosexuals \nbut I know that many are from their e-mail responces). I don't \nnormally make sterotypical assumptions about groups of people, but \nsince I have been asked to by many of the opposing veiw point I will.\n\nSo far people have made wild assumptions, put me down because I don't \nhave the resources of others, and even reverted to name calling. If \nyou don't think this is an acurate representation then those of you \nwho are homosexual Christians show me the diffrence.\n\nIn Christ's Love,\nBryan\n",
'From: pdudey@willamette.edu (The Lisp SubGuru)\nSubject: Re: Where did the hacker ethic go?\nArticle-I.D.: willamet.C6D4BJ.Du\nOrganization: Willamette University, Salem OR\nLines: 21\n\nIn article <1993May1.092058.1@aurora.alaska.edu> pstlb@aurora.alaska.edu writes:\n>\n> I put it to you thus: Where HAS the hacker ethic gone? If it still exists,\n>where? And, if it DOES exist, why are those who call themselves "hackers"\n>allowing this to perpetuate itself? Why are they not creating new, innovative,\n>interesting ideas to stop the SOS from maintaining its choke hold on the\n>computer industry?\n\nHow about the GNU people, handing out very good, free software? I\'ve also\ndistributed two decent-sized programs myself, the Go player Fumiko (at\nftp.u.washington.edu) and the Genetic Neural Network Programmer CEREBRUM\n(somewhere out there).\n\nI\'ve only had time to write these programs because of scholarships and\ngrants. The intended benefit to society, or a loophole in the system? \n\n-- \n! Peter Dudey, 11 kyu, Lisp SubGuru, Order of the Golden Parentheses \\FINGER !\n! Reformed Church of James "Eric" the Half-a-Bee, Dipped in Curry \\ME !\n! "A shadowy flight into the dangerous world of a man who does not exist." !\n! Please mail me plastic spaceships: 900 State St. C-210, Salem, OR 97301 !\n',
"From: samuel@paul.rutgers.edu (Empress Carrena Kristina I)\nSubject: REQUEST:FAQ\nOrganization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.\nLines: 20\n\nHi. \nI have a friend who is interested in subscribing to this newsgroup.\nUnfortunatly she does not have usenet access. If someone could send\nher a faq and info on how to subscribe, we'd be very appreciative If\nyou want to send it to me, you can and I will get it to her. I do not\nread this newsgroup regularly though so e-mail please.\nThank you\nJody\n-- \n\n\n-------------------------------------------------------------------------------\nJody Rebecca\t\tColby College\t\tMajors: History/Sociology\n\t\t\tClass o' '94 \nE-Mail: jrgould@colby.edu\n\t samuel@paul.rutgers.edu\n\nFantasy, Music, Colors, and Animals will lead this society out of oppression.\n\n-------------------------------------------------------------------------------\n",
'From: stephen@mont.cs.missouri.edu (Stephen Montgomery-Smith)\nSubject: Re: Pregnency without sex?\nKeywords: pregnency sex\nOrganization: University of Missouri\nLines: 21\n\nIn <4974@master.CNA.TEK.COM> mikeq@freddy.CNA.TEK.COM (Mike Quigley) writes:\n\n>In article ?????? I write:\n>>When I was a school boy, my biology teacher told us of an incident\n>>in which a couple were very passionate without actually having\n>>sexual intercourse. Somehow the girl became pregnent as sperm\n>>cells made their way to her through the clothes via persperation.\n>>\n>>Was my biology teacher misinforming us, or do such incidents actually\n>>occur?\n\n>Ohboy. Here we go again. And one wonders why the American\n>education system is in such abysmal shape?\n\nActually, this was a school in England. This same biology teacher also\ntold me that the reason that stars twinkle is that the small spot of\nlight on the retina sometimes falls between the light recepive cells.\nSo his info was suspect from the start. \n\nStephen\n\n',
"From: mike@leah.prc.utexas.edu (Michael Kline)\nSubject: IGES and e00 formats\nOrganization: Population Research Center, UT-Austin\nLines: 10\n\nI am trying to find out anything I can about available documentation\nfor IGES and e00(Arc/Info) formats. If you know anything about these\nformats (or just one) PLEASE send me a note. I don't read this group,\nso please send responses to:\n\nmike@prc.utexas.edu\n\nThank You\n\nMike Kline\n",
'From: jackson@sandman.ece.clarkson.edu (Peter Jackson,CH237A,,)\nSubject: Re: Where did the hacker ethic go?\nNntp-Posting-Host: sandman.ece.clarkson.edu\nOrganization: Clarkson University\nLines: 31\n\nFrom article <1993May1.092058.1@aurora.alaska.edu>, by pstlb@aurora.alaska.edu:\n> \n\n> I put it to you thus: Where HAS the hacker ethic gone? If it still exists,\n> where? And, if it DOES exist, why are those who call themselves "hackers"\n> allowing this to perpetuate itself? Why are they not creating new, innovative,\n> interesting ideas to stop the SOS from maintaining its choke hold on the\n> computer industry?\n\nSince this was posted on comp.ai, I assume there is an AI angle to this. Hacking is\nwhat AI students do when they\'re really supposed to be doing something else, e.g.\nthesis research & write up, getting their supervisors\' pet programs to run properly,\netc. No-one gets much glory for hacking, and no-one gets any money out of it.\nProducing good free software requires an enormous investment of time & resources that\nnot many people can, or want to, afford - particularly during a recession.\n\nIn addition, over the last 10 years, I think there has been a de-emphasis on producing\nrunning programs in AI research, and a greater emphasis on more formal approaches to\nproblem-solving. Students have been proving theorems instead of writing programs.\nAt a conference a year or two ago, Johann de Kleer suggested that everyone should\n\'Get back to the keyboard\' and write more programs that demonstrate their ideas -\nand I have to say I\'m inclined to agree.\n\n(I don\'t claim to be a superhacker, but I don\'t think that invalidates my remarks.\nAnd I\'m sure this isn\'t the whole story.)\n\n\n--\nPeter Jackson, Dept of Electrical & Computer Eng, Clarkson University\n"Opinions expressed are not those of my employer or any other organization"\nSecond Violin, Fiddling Firefighters Ensemble (Rome Branch)\n',
'From: mcelwre@cnsvax.uwec.edu\nSubject: FREE-ENERGY TECHNOLOGY\nOrganization: University of Wisconsin Eau Claire\nLines: 248\nIMPORTANT-INFO: It is HUMBLY suggested by Robert\'s FANS that you REDIRECT all\n\tFOLLOWUPS into alt.fan.robert.mcelwaine, or at least CONSIDER doing so.\n\n \n \n FREE-ENERGY TECHNOLOGY\n by Robert E. McElwaine, Physicist\n \n Ninety to a hundred years ago, everybody "knew" that a \n heavier-than-air machine could not possibly fly. It would \n violate the "laws" of physics. All of the "experts" and \n "authorities" said so. \n \n For example, Simon Newcomb declared in 1901: "The \n demonstration that no possible combination of known \n substances, known forms of machinery and known forms of \n force, can be united in a practical machine by which man \n shall fly long distances through the air, seems to the writer \n as complete as it is possible for the demonstration of any \n physical fact to be." \n \n Fortunately, a few SMART people such as the Wright \n Brothers did NOT accept such pronouncements as the final \n word. Now we take airplanes for granted, (except when they \n crash). \n \n Today, orthodox physicists and other "scientists" are \n saying similar things against several kinds of \'Free Energy\' \n Technologies, using negative terms such as "pseudo-science" \n and "perpetual motion", and citing so-called "laws" which \n assert that "energy cannot be created or destroyed" ("1st law \n of thermodynamics") and "there is always a decrease in useful \n energy" ("2nd law of thermodynamics"). The physicists do not \n know how to do certain things, so they ARROGANTLY declare \n that those things cannot be done. Such PRINCIPLES OF \n IMPOTENCE are COMMON in orthodox modern "science" and help to \n cover up INCONSISTENCIES and CONTRADICTIONS in orthodox \n modern theories. \n \n Free Energy Inventions are devices which can tap a \n seemingly UNLIMITED supply of energy from the universe, with-\n OUT burning any kind of fuel, making them the PERFECT \n SOLUTION to the world-wide energy crisis and its associated \n pollution, degradation, and depletion of the environment. \n \n Most Free Energy Devices probably do not create energy, \n but rather tap into EXISTING natural energy sources by \n various forms of induction. UNLIKE solar or wind devices, \n they need little or no energy storage capacity, because they \n can tap as much energy as needed WHEN needed. Solar energy \n has the DIS-advantage that the sun is often blocked by \n clouds, trees, buildings, or the earth itself, or is reduced \n by haze or smog or by thick atmosphere at low altitudes and \n high latitudes. Likewise, wind speed is WIDELY VARIABLE and \n often non-existent. Neither solar nor wind power are \n suitable to directly power cars and airplanes. Properly \n designed Free Energy Devices do NOT have such limitations. \n \n For example, at least three U.S. patents (#3,811,058, \n #3,879,622, and #4,151,431) have so far been awarded for \n motors that run EXCLUSIVELY on permanent MAGNETS, seemingly \n tapping into energy circulating through the earth\'s magnetic \n field. The first two require a feedback network in order to \n be self-running. The third one, as described in detail in \n "Science & Mechanics" magazine, Spring 1980, ("Amazing \n Magnet-Powered Motor", by Jorma Hyypia, pages 45-48, 114-117, \n and front cover), requires critical sizes, shapes, \n orientations, and spacings of magnets, but NO feedback. Such \n a motor could drive an electric generator or reversible \n heatpump in one\'s home, YEAR ROUND, FOR FREE. [Complete \n descriptive copies of U.S. patents are $3.00 each from the \n U.S. Patent Office, 2021 Jefferson Davis Hwy., Arlington, VA \n 22202; correct 7-digit patent number required. Or try \n getting copies of BOTH the article AND the Patents via your \n local public or university library\'s inter-library loan \n dept..] \n \n A second type of free-energy device, such as the \'Gray \n Motor\' (U.S. Patent #3,890,548), the \'Tesla Coil\', and the \n motor of inventor Joseph Newman [see SCIENCE, 2-10-84, pages \n 571-2.], taps ELECTRO-MAGNETIC energy by INDUCTION from \n \'EARTH RESONANCE\' (about 12 cycles per second plus \n harmonics). They typically have a \'SPARK GAP\' in the circuit \n which serves to SYNCHRONIZE the energy in the coils with the \n energy being tapped. It is important that the total \n \'inductance\' and \'capacitance\' of the Device combine to \n \'RESONATE\' at the same frequency as \'EARTH RESONANCE\' in \n order to maximize the power output. This output can also be \n increased by centering the SPARK GAP at the \'NEUTRAL CENTER\' \n of a strong U-shaped permanent magnet. In the case of a \n Tesla Coil, slipping a \'TOROID CHOKE COIL\' around the \n secondary coil will enhance output power. ["Earth Energy: \n Fuelless Propulsion & Power Systems", by John Bigelow, 1976, \n Health Research, P.O. Box 70, Mokelumne Hill, CA 95245.] \n \n During the 1930\'s, an Austrian civil engineer named \n Viktor Schauberger invented and partially developed an \n \'IMPLOSION TURBINE\' (German name, \'ZOKWENDLE\'), after \n analyzing erosion, and lack of erosion, in differently shaped \n waterways, and developing sophisticated mathematical \n equations to explain it. As described in the book "A \n Breakthrough to New Free-Energy Sources", by Dan A. Davidson, \n 1977, water is pumped by an IMPELLER pump through a \n LOGARITHMIC-SPIRAL-shaped coil of tubing until it reaches a \n CRITICAL VELOCITY. The water then IMPLODES, no longer \n touching the inside walls of the tubing, and drives the pump, \n which then converts the pump\'s motor into an ELECTRIC \n GENERATOR. The device seems to be tapping energy from that \n of the earth\'s rotation, via the \'Coriolis effect\', LIKE A \n TORNADO. [ It can also NEUTRALIZE GRAVITY! ] \n \n A fourth type of Free Energy Device is the \'McClintock \n Air Motor\' (U.S. Patent #2,982,261), which is a cross between \n a diesel engine (it has three cylinders with a compression \n ratio of 27 to 1) and a rotary engine (with solar and \n planetary gears). It burns NO FUEL, but becomes self-running \n by driving its own air compressor. This engine also \n generates a lot of heat, which could be used to heat \n buildings; and its very HIGH TORQUE makes it ideal for large \n trucks, preventing their slowing down when climbing hills. \n [David McClintock is also the REAL original Inventor of the \n automatic transmission, differential, and 4-wheel drive.] \n \n Crystals may someday be used to supply energy, as shown \n in the Star Trek shows, perhaps by inserting each one between \n metal capacitor plates and bombarding it with a beam of \n particles from a small radioactive source like that used in a \n common household smoke detector. \n \n One other energy source should be mentioned here, \n despite the fact that it does not fit the definition of Free \n Energy. A Bulgarian-born American Physicist named Joseph \n Maglich has invented and partially developed an atomic FUSION \n reactor which he calls \'Migma\', which uses NON-radioactive \n deuterium as a fuel [available in nearly UNLIMITED quantities \n from sea water], does NOT produce radioactive waste, can be \n converted DIRECTLY into electricity (with-OUT energy-wasting \n steam turbines), and can be constructed small enough to power \n a house or large enough to power a city. And UNLIKE the \n "Tokamaks" and laser fusion MONSTROSITIES that we read about, \n Migma WORKS, already producing at least three watts of power \n for every watt put in. ["New Times" (U.S. version), 6-26-78, \n pages 32-40.] \n \n And then there are the \'cold fusion\' experiments that \n have been in the news lately, originally conducted by \n University of Utah researchers B. Stanley Pons and Martin \n Fleischmann. Some U.S. Navy researchers at the China Lake \n Naval Weapons Center in California, under the direction of \n chemist Melvin Miles, finally took the trouble to collect the \n bubbles coming from such an apparatus, had them analyzed with \n mass-spectrometry techniques, and found HELIUM 4, which \n PROVES that atomic FUSION did indeed take place, and enough \n of it to explain the excess heat generated. \n \n There are GOOD INDICATIONS that the two so-called "laws" \n of thermodynamics are NOT so "absolute". For example, the \n late Physicist Dewey B. Larson developed a comprehensive \n GENERAL UNIFIED Theory of the physical universe, which he \n calls the \'Reciprocal System\', (which he describes in detail \n in several books such as "Nothing But Motion" (1979) and "The \n Universe of Motion" (1984)), in which the physical universe \n has TWO DISTINCT HALVES, the material half and an anti-matter \n half, with a CONTINUOUS CYCLE of matter and energy passing \n between them, with-OUT the "heat death" predicted by \n thermodynamic "laws". His Theory explains the universe MUCH \n BETTER than modern orthodox theories, including phenomena \n that orthodox physicists and astronomers are still scratching \n their heads about, and is SELF-CONSISTENT in every way. Some \n Free Energy Devices might be tapping into that energy flow, \n seemingly converting "low-quality energy" into "high-quality \n energy". \n \n Also, certain religious organizations such as \'Sant Mat\' \n and \'Eckankar\' teach their Members that the physical universe \n is only the LOWEST of at least a DOZEN major levels of \n existence, like parallel universes, or analogous to TV \n channels, as described in books like "The Path of the \n Masters", by Dr. Julian Johnson, 1939, and "Eckankar: The Key \n to Secret Worlds", by Sri Paul Twitchell, 1969. For example, \n the next level up from the physical universe is commonly \n called the \'Astral Plane\'. Long-time Members of these groups \n have learned to \'Soul Travel\' into these higher worlds and \n report on conditions there. It seems plausible that energy \n could flow down from these higher levels into the physical \n universe, or be created at the boundary between them, given \n the right configuration of matter to channel it. This is \n supported by many successful laboratory-controlled \n experiments in PSYCHO-KINESIS throughout the world, such as \n those described in the book "Psychic Discoveries Behind the \n Iron Curtain". \n \n In terms of economics, the market has FAILED. Inventors \n do not have enough money and other resources to fully develop \n and mass-produce Free Energy Equipment, and the conventional \n energy producer$ have no desire to do so because of their \n VE$TED INTERE$T$. The government is needed to intervene. If \n the government does not intervene, then the total supply of \n energy resources from the earth will continue to decline and \n will soon run out, prices for energy will increase, and \n pollution and its harmful effects (including the \'GREENHOUSE \n EFFECT\', acid rain, smog, radioactive contamination, oil \n spills, rape of the land by strip mining, etc.) will continue \n to increase. \n \n The government should SUBSIDIZE research and development \n of Free Energy by Inventors and universities, subsidize \n private production (until the producers can make it on their \n own), and subsidize consumption by low-income consumers of \n Free Energy Hardware. \n \n The long-range effects of such government intervention \n would be wide-spread and profound. The quantity of energy \n demanded from conventional energy producer$ (coal mining \n companie$, oil companie$ and countries, electric utilitie$, \n etc.) would drop to near zero, forcing their employees to \n seek work elsewhere. Energy resources (coal, uranium, oil, \n and gas) would be left in the ground. Prices for \n conventional energy supplies would also drop to near zero, \n while the price of Free Energy Equipment would start out high \n but drop as supply increases (as happened with VCR\'s, \n personal computers, etc.). Costs of producing products that \n require large quantities of energy to produce would decrease, \n along with their prices to consumers. Consumers would be \n able to realize the "opportunity costs" of paying electric \n utility bills or buying home heating fuel. Tourism would \n benefit and increase because travelers would not have to \n spend their money for gasoline for their cars. Government \n tax revenue from gasoline and other fuels would have to be \n obtained in some other way. AND ENERGY COULD NO LONGER BE \n USED AS A MOTIVE OR EXCUSE FOR MAKING WAR. \n \n Many conventional energy producer$ would go out of \n business, but society as a whole, and the earth\'s environment \n and ecosystems, would benefit greatly. It is the People, \n that government should serve, rather than the big \n corporation$ and bank$. \n \n\n For more information, answers to your questions, etc., \n please consult my CITED SOURCES (patents, articles, books). \n\n \n UN-altered REPRODUCTION and DISSEMINATION of this \n IMPORTANT Information is ENCOURAGED. \n\n\n Robert E. McElwaine\n B.S., Physics, UW-EC\n\n\n',
"From: tedr@athena.cs.uga.edu (Ted Kalivoda)\nSubject: Reason and Homophobia\nOrganization: University of Georgia, Athens\nLines: 23\n\nThis has troubled me for a long time and needs to be dealt with.\n\nFrom a long article Available through an individual on this newsgroup.\n\nAbout scripture being against homosexuality:\n------------------------------------------\nWhen we are\nless homophobic we will see that what we know as gay and lesbian people,\nengaging in loving, voluntary erotic relations with each other, aren't even\nmentioned. [in the Bible, tk]\n------------------------------------------\n\nThis frightens me (not in the homophobic sense, but intellectually),\nespecially because it was written by someone from a homosexual church.\n\nSo, if my interpretation is different than theirs, I am homophobic! This\ncan't be right. Disagreement in interpretation of the Bible and/or rejection\nof homosexual acts is not tantamount of homophobia.\n\n==================================== \nTed Kalivoda (tedr@athena.cs.uga.edu)\nUniversity of Georgia, Athens\nInstitute of Higher Ed. \n",
'From: hayesstw@risc1.unisa.ac.za (Steve Hayes)\nSubject: Re: Question about Virgin Mary\nOrganization: University of South Africa\nLines: 25\n\nIn article <May.9.05.39.11.1993.27394@athos.rutgers.edu> db7n+@andrew.cmu.edu (D. Andrew Byler) writes:\n\n>And it should be noted that the Monophysite Chruches of Egypt and Syria\n>also hold to this belief as part of divine revelation, even though they\n>broke away from the unity of the Chruch in 451 AD by rejecting the\n>Council of Chalcedon. It might be argued by some Protestants that the\n>Catholics and Orthodox made this belief up, but the Monophysites, put a\n>big hole in that notion, as they also hold the belief, and they split\n>from the Chruch before the belief was first annunciated in writing (as\n>far as is known, much has been lost from the time of the Fathers).\n\nThe belief that the churches of Egypt and Syria were (or are) monophysite is \nfalse, as is the belief that they often held that the Council of Chalcedon \nwas Nestorian.\n\nThese misunderstandings were exacerbated by political factors, and thus led \nto schism - a schism that is on its way to being healed.\n\n============================================================\nSteve Hayes, Department of Missiology & Editorial Department\nUniv. of South Africa, P.O. Box 392, Pretoria, 0001 South Africa\nInternet: hayesstw@risc1.unisa.ac.za Fidonet: 5:7101/20\n steve.hayes@p5.f22.n7101.z5.fidonet.org\nFAQ: Missiology is the study of Christian mission and is part of\n the Faculty of Theology at Unisa\n',
'Subject: Source code/help on IP packages(Please)!\nFrom: ashlin@ironbark.ucnv.edu.au (Vance Ashlin)\nDistribution: world\nOrganization: Dept Computing, UCNV, Bendigo, Australia\nNNTP-Posting-Host: ironbark.ucnv.edu.au\nLines: 44\n\nGreetings this is a general call for information regarding Image\nProcessing. I am looking for any material related to the field, and am\nalso trying to get my hands on some easy to use packages related to the\nfield. In particular source code for general use packages.\n\nI already have several texts on the subject, but would appreciate more\ninput from people more knowledgable in the field than myself. I\'m not\nmathematically literate (ie. I don\'t have a degree in mathematics), so\nany material that is suggested I would prefer that it was not\nmathematically intensive.\n\nThe best book I have found on the subject at the moment is:\n\n"Practical Digital Image Processing"\nby Rhys Lewis\nISBN: 0-13-683525-2\nPublished by Ellis Horwood (c)1990.\n\nLikewise I am trying to get a fair sample of programs that demonstrate\nImage Processing techniques. So far I have \'xv\', and \'khoros\' for Unix.\n\'Dcview 2.1\' for the IBM PC, and various related smatterings of C code\nto help describe topics like, contrasting, dithering, image enhancement\nvia convolution etc.\n\nIf anyone could kindly supply me with some public domain software\npertinent to this area, or better still if they could tell me where I am\nmost likely to find it on the AARNET (Internet). If I can I would prefer\nsource code in C or Turbo Pascal that includes some Image Processing\ncode/algorithms, that I can readily alter/manipulate for the purposes of\ndemonstration it would be most helpful.\n\nAll the above information will contribute to my post-graduate studies,\nand will be liberally used in my paper, and seminar on the subject.\n\n\n Thanks in advance Vance Ashlin\n Diploma Advanced Computing\n\n-------------------------------------------------------------------\nThinking is dangerous, subversive, mindnumbing and leads you astray\n\nashlin@ironbark.ucnv.edu.au\ni880429@redgum.ucnv.edu.au\n-------------------------------------------------------------------\n',
'From: brendan@gu.uwa.edu.au (Brendan Langoulant)\nSubject: 3D input devices\nOrganization: The University of Western Australia\nLines: 9\nNNTP-Posting-Host: mackerel.gu.uwa.edu.au\nKeywords: 3d,input,device\n\nGreetings all,\n Does anyone use some form of 3D input device? I would like to hear any\ninformation on any systems that people are currently using...\n\nPlease email responses. I will summarise if I get some feedback.\n\n--\nBrendan Langoulant\nbrendan@gu.uwa.edu.au\n',
"From: u2i02@seq1.cc.keele.ac.uk (RJ Pomeroy)\nSubject: Re: Satan kicked out of heaven: Biblical?\nLines: 11\n\nFrom article <May.14.02.11.36.1993.25219@athos.rutgers.edu>, by tas@pegasus.com (Len Howard):\n\n> Hi Eddie, many people believe the battle described in Rev 12:7-12\n> describes the casting out of Satan from heaven and his fall to the\n> earth.\n> Shalom, Len Howard\n\n\nAlso - check out Jude. Plus, if you have a concordance handy, check\nout all the references to 'stars'. These are generally taken to mean\nangels, I believe.\n",
"From: abh@genesis.nred.ma.us (Andrew Hudson)\nSubject: Source to create FLI or FLC ?\nSummary: looking for source to create FLI or FLC\nOrganization: Genesis Public Access Unix +1 508 664 0149\nLines: 12\n\n\nDoes anyone know if the source is available to create FLI\nor FLC animations? I would ideally like DLL's for Windows\nbut would settle for C source. I've heard they might be \navailable on Amiga forums somewhere. The libraries\ncurrently distributed by Autodesk, AAWIN, AAPLAY, do NOT\nhave FLI creation capability, only playback.\n\nAny pointers would be appreciated, thanks!\n\n- Andrew Hudson\nabh@genesis.nred.ma.us\n",
"From: jeubank@mail.sas.upenn.edu (Judith Eubank)\nSubject: Re: a few questions\nOrganization: University of Pennsylvania, School of Arts and Sciences\nLines: 7\n\nArthur Clarke may have quoted the comment about knowing you're to be\nhanged in the morning concentrating a man's mind wonderfully, but the\nsource of the comment is Samuel Johnson.\n\n(Pardon me if you already knew that.)\n\n-----je\n",
"From: d0np@elara.sun.csd.unb.ca (Necros)\nSubject: CGM -> something (preferably PCX)\nOrganization: University of New Brunswick, Fredericton, NB, Canada\nLines: 13\n\n\nDoes anybody know about a converter from CGM to PCX or anything else more\ncommon. I've spent some time searching the archives with no luck.\nCould you email me your responses.\n\n\n\n Thx in advance,\n Mike G.\n\n\nd0np@jupiter.sun.csd.unb.ca\n\n",
'From: maridai@comm.mot.com\nSubject: Re: Bernadette Dates\nLines: 58\n\n\n |JEK@cu.nih.gov writes: \n |Joe Moore writes: \n | \n | > Mary at that time appeared to a girl named Bernadette at \n | > Lourdes. She referred to herself as the Immaculate Conception.\n | > Since a nine year old would have no way of knowing about the \n | > doctrine, the apparition was deemed to be true and it sealed \n | > the case for the doctrine. \n |Bernadette was 14 years old when she had her visions, in 1858, \n |four years after the dogma had been officially proclaimed by the \n |Pope. \n | \n | Yours, \n | James Kiefer\n\nI forgot exactly what her age was but I remember clearly\nthat she was born in a family of poverty and she did not\nhave any education, whatsoever, at the age of the apparitions.\nShe suffered from asthma at that age and she and her family were\nliving in a prison cell of some sort.\n\nShe had to ask the \'Lady\' several times in her apparitions about \nwhat her name was since her confessor priest asked her to do so. \nFor several instances, the priest did not get an answer since \nBernadette did not receive any. One time, after several apparitions\npassed, The Lady finally said, "I am the Immaculate Conception".\nSo, Bernadette, was so happy and repeated these words over and\nover in her mind so as not to forget it before she told the\npriest who was asking. So, when she told the priest, the\npriest was shocked and asked Bernadette, "Do you know what\nyou are talking about?". Bernadette did not know what exactly\nit meant but she was just too happy to have the answer for\nthe priest. The priest continued with, "How did you remember\nthis if you do not know?". Bernadette answered honestly that\nshe had to repeat it over and over in her mind while on her\nway to the priest...\n\nThe priest knew about the dogma being four years old then.\nBut Bernadette did not know and yet she had the answer which\nthe priest finally observed and took as proof of an authentic\npersonal revelation of Our Lady to Bernadette.\n\n(Note: This Lady of Lourdes shrine has a spring of water which\nour lady requested Bernadette to dig up herself with her\nbare hands in front of pilgrims. At the start little\nwater flowed but after several years there is more water \nflowing.)\n\n-Marida\n "...spreading God\'s words through actions..."\n -Mother Teresa\n\n\n\n\n-- \n-Marida (maridai@ecs.comm.mot.com)\n',
"From: zippy@cyberden.sf.ca.us\nSubject: re: Gif to 3dstudio\nReply-To: zippy@cyberden.sf.ca.us\nOrganization: Indescribable Creations\nLines: 11\n\nas far as simply mapping your logo or whatever onto a cube or sphere, \nit's quite easy. Just either copy the GIF you want mapped into the map \ndirectory or add a map path to the directory where it currently is. Then \ngo into the materials editor and make a new material with that as the bit \nmap, voila.. \n\n__________________________________________________________________________\n | / |\\\n | H E \\ Y B E R |/ E N [ zippy@cyberden.sf.ca.us ]\n\n The CyberDen - Public Access Waffle Usenet System - 415/472-5527\n",
'From: M.Reimer@uts.edu.au (Matthew R)\nSubject: Urbana 93 mission conference\nOrganization: University Of Technology,Sydney\nLines: 16\n\nI would like to hear from people who are thinking of going to the Urbana 93\nconference in December this year. I have recently received info from IFES\n(International Fellowship of Evangelical Students) and am thinking about\nattending although I am still not sure whether I can afford it.\n\nI would also like to hear from people involved in IFES or IVF groups just to\nhear how things are going on your campus.\nAre there any news groups or groups of people who already do this.\n\nI am involved in the Christian Fellowship at the University of Technology\nSydney in Australia. If you are interested to find out how we are going \nmail me to find out.\n\nMatt Reimer\nEmail: M.Reimer@uts.edu.au\n\t\n',
'From: frank@D012S658.uucp (Frank O\'Dwyer)\nSubject: Re: Theism and Fanatism (was: Islamic Genocide)\nOrganization: Siemens-Nixdorf AG\nLines: 323\nNNTP-Posting-Host: d012s658.ap.mchp.sni.de\n\nIn article <16BB8D25C.I3150101@dbstu1.rz.tu-bs.de> I3150101@dbstu1.rz.tu-bs.de (Benedikt Rosenau) writes:\n#In article <1r3tqo$ook@horus.ap.mchp.sni.de>\n#frank@D012S658.uucp (Frank O\'Dwyer) writes:\n# \n#>#>|>#>#Theism is strongly correlated with irrational belief in absolutes. Irrational\n#>#>|>#>#belief in absolutes is strongly correlated with fanatism.\n#>#\n#>#(deletion)\n#>#\n#>#>|Theism is correlated with fanaticism. I have neither said that all fanatism\n#>#>|is caused by theism nor that all theism leads to fanatism. The point is,\n#>#>|theism increases the chance of becoming a fanatic. One could of course\n#>#>|argue that would be fanatics tend towards theism (for example), but I just\n#>#>|have to loook at the times in history when theism was the dominant ideology\n#>#>|to invalidate that conclusion that that is the basic mechanism behind it.\n#>#>\n#>#>IMO, the influence of Stalin, or for that matter, Ayn Rand, invalidates your\n#>#>assumption that theism is the factor to be considered.\n#>#\n#>#Bogus. I just said that theism is not the only factor for fanatism.\n#>#The point is that theism is *a* factor.\n#>\n#>That\'s your claim; now back it up. I consider your argument as useful\n#>as the following: Belief is strongly correlated with fanaticism. Therefore\n#>belief is *a* factor in fanaticism. True, and utterly useless. (Note, this\n#>is *any* belief, not belief in Gods)\n#>\n# \n#Tiring to say the least. I have backed it up, read the first statement.\n\nI have read it. Conspicuous by its absence is any evidence or point.\n\n# \n#The latter is the fallacy of the wrong analogy. Saying someone believes\n#something is hardly an information about the person at all. Saying someone\n#is a theist holds much more information. Further, the correlation between\n#theists and fanatism is higher than that between belief at all and fanatism\n#because of the special features of theistic belief.\n\nTruth by blatant assertion. Evidence?\n# \n# \n#>#>Gullibility,\n#>#>blind obedience to authority, lack of scepticism, and so on, are all more\n#>#>reliable indicators. And the really dangerous people - the sources of\n#>#>fanaticism - are often none of these things. They are cynical manipulators\n#>#>of the gullible, who know precisely what they are doing.\n#>#\n#>#That\'s a claim you have to support. Please note that especially in the\n#>#field of theism, the leaders believe what they say.\n#>\n#>If you believe that, you\'re incredibly naive.\n#>\n# \n#You, Frank O\'Dwyer, are living in a dream world. I wonder if there is any\n#base of discussion left after such a statement. As a matter of fact, I think\n#you are ignorant of human nature. Even when one starts with something one does\n#not believe, one gets easily fooled into actually believing what one says.\n# \n#To give you the benefit of the doubt, prove your statement.\n\nThe onus of proof is on you, sunshine. What makes you think that\ntheist leaders believe what they say? Especially when they say\none thing and do another, or say one thing closely followed by its\nopposite? The practice is not restricted to theism, but it\'s there\nfor anyone to see. It\'s almost an epidemic in this country.\n\nJust for instance, if it is harder for a camel to pass thru\' the eye\nof a needle, why is the Catholic church such a wealthy land-owner? Why\nare there churches to the square inch in my country?\n# \n#>#>Now, *some*\n#>#>brands of theism, and more precisely *some* theists, do tend to fanaticism,\n#>#>I grant you. To tar all theists with this brush is bigotry, not a reasoned\n#>#>argument - and it reads to me like a warm-up for censorship and restriction\n#>#>of religious freedom. Ever read Animal Farm?\n#>#>\n#>#That\'s a straw man. And as usually in discussions with you one has to\n#>#repeat it: Read what I have written above: not every theism leads to\n#>#fanatism, and not all fanatism is caused by theism. The point is,\n#>#there is a correlation, and it comes from innate features of theism.\n#>\n#>No, some of it comes from features which *some* theism has in common\n#>with *some* fanaticism. Your last statement simply isn\'t implied by\n#>what you say before, because you\'re trying to sneak in "innate features\n#>of [all] theism". The word you\'re groping for is "some".\n#>\n# \n#Bogus again. Not all theism as is is fanatic. However, the rest already\n#gives backup for the statement about the correlation about fanatism and\n#theism. And further, the specialty of other theistic beliefs allows them\n#to switch to fanatism easily. It takes just a nifty improvement in the\n#theology.\n\nTruth by blatant assertion. \n# \n# \n#>#Gullibility, by the way, is one of them.\n#>\n#>No shit, Sherlock. So why not talk about gullibility instead of theism,\n#>since it seems a whole lot more relevant to the case you have, as opposed\n#>to the case you are trying to make?\n#>\n# \n#Because there is more about theism that the attraction to gullible people\n#causing the correlation. And the whole discussion started that way by the\n#statement that theism is meaningfully correlated to fanatism, which you\n#challenged.\n\nIndeed I did. As I recall, I asked for evidence. What is the correlation\nof which you speak? \n# \n# \n#>#And to say that I am going to forbid religion is another of your straw\n#>#men. Interesting that you have nothing better to offer.\n#>\n#>I said it reads like a warm up to that. That\'s because it\'s an irrational\n#>and bogus tirade, and has no other use than creating a nice Them/Us\n#>split in the minds of excitable people such as are to be found on either\n#>side of church walls.\n#>\n# \n#Blah blah blah. I am quite well aware that giving everyone their rights\n#protects me better from fanatics than the other way round.\n\nOf course, other people are always fanatics, never oneself. Your\nwish to slur all theists seems pretty fanatical to me.\n# \n#It is quite nice to see that you are actually implying a connection between\n#that argument and the rise of fanatism. So far, it is just another of your\n#assertions.\n\nSo? You can do it.\n# \n# \n#>#>|>(2) Define "irrational belief". e.g., is it rational to believe that\n#>#>|> reason is always useful?\n#>#>|>\n#>#>|\n#>#>|Irrational belief is belief that is not based upon reason. The latter has\n#>#>|been discussed for a long time with Charley Wingate. One point is that\n#>#>|the beliefs violate reason often, and another that a process that does\n#>#>|not lend itself to rational analysis does not contain reliable information.\n#>#>\n#>#>Well, there is a glaring paradox here: an argument that reason is useful\n#>#>based on reason would be circular, and argument not based on reason would\n#>#>be irrational. Which is it?\n#>#>\n#>#That\'s bogus. Self reference is not circular. And since the evaluation of\n#>#usefulness is possible within rational systems, it is allowed.\n#>\n#>O.K., it\'s oval. It\'s still begging the question, however. And though\n#>that certainly is allowed, it\'s not rational. And you claiming to be\n#>rational and all.\n#>\n# \n#Another of your assertions. No proof, no evidence, just claims.\n\nHey - I learned it from you. Did I do good?\n# \n# \n#>At the risk of repeating myself, and hearing "we had that before" [we\n#>didn\'t hear a _refutation_ before, so we\'re back. Deal with it] :\n#>you can\'t use reason to demonstrate that reason is useful. Someone\n#>who thinks reason is crap won\'t buy it, you see.\n#>\n# \n#That is unusually weak even for you. The latter implies that my proof\n#depends on their opinion. Somehow who does not accept that there are\n#triangles won\'t accept Pythagoras. Wow, that\'s an incredible insight.\n#I don\'t have to prove them wrong in their opinion. It is possible to\n#show that their systems leave out useful information respectively claims\n#unreliable or even absurd statements to be information.\n\nTotally circular, and totally useless.\n# \n#Their wish to believe makes them believe. Things are judges by their appeal,\n#and not by their information. It makes you feel good when you believe that\n#may be good for them, but it contains zillions of possible pitfalls. From\n#belief despite contrary evidence to the bogus proofs they attempt.\n\nTruth by blatant assertion. I\'ve seen as many bogus proofs of the \nnon-existence of gods as I have of their existence.\n\n# \n#Rational systems, by the way, does not mean that every data has to come from\n#logical analysis, the point is that the evaluation of the data does not\n#contradict logic. It easily follows that such a system does not allows to\n#evaluate if its rational in itself. Yes, it is possible to evaluate that\n#it is rational in a system that is not rational by the fallacies of that\n#system, but since the validity of the axioms is agreed upon, that has as\n#little impact as the possibility of a demon ala Descartes.\n\nThis just doesn\'t parse, sorry.\n# \n#So far it just a matter of consistency. I use ratiional arguments to show\n#that my system is consistent or that theirs isn\'t. The evaluation of the\n\nNor this.\n#predictions does not need rationality. It does not contradict, however.\n# \n# \n#>#Your argument is as silly as proving mathematical statements needs mathematics\n#>#and mathematics are therfore circular.\n#>\n#>Anybody else think Godel was silly?\n#>\n# \n#Stream of consciousness typing? What is that supposed to mean?\n# \n# \n#>#>The first part of the second statement contains no information, because\n#>#>you don\'t say what "the beliefs" are. If "the beliefs" are strong theism\n#>#>and/or strong atheism, then your statement is not in general true. The\n#>#>second part of your sentence is patently false - counterexample: an\n#>#>axiomatic datum does not lend itself to rational analysis, but is\n#>#>assumed to contain reliable information regardless of what process is\n#>#>used to obtain it.\n#>#>\n#>#\n#>#I\'ve been speaking of religious systems with contradictory definitions\n#>#of god here.\n#>#\n#>#An axiomatic datum lends itself to rational analysis, what you say here\n#>#is a an often refuted fallacy. Have a look at the discussion of the\n#>#axiom of choice. And further, one can evaluate axioms in larger systems\n#>#out of which they are usually derived. "I exist" is derived, if you want\n#>#it that way.\n#>#\n#>#Further, one can test the consistency and so on of a set of axioms.\n#>#\n#>#what is it you are trying to say?\n#>\n#>That at some point, people always wind up saying "this datum is reliable"\n#>for no particular reason at all. Example: "I am not dreaming".\n#>\n# \n#Nope. There is evidence for it. The trick is that the choice of an axiomatic\n#basis of a system is difficult, because the possibilities are interwoven.\n#One therefore chooses that with the least assumptions or with assumptions\n#that are necessary to get information out of the system anyway.\n\nI\'d like to see this alleged evidence.\n# \n#One does not need to define axioms in order to define an evaluation method\n#for usefulness, the foundation is laid by how one feels at all (that\'s not\n#how one feels about it).\n\nI see. You have no irrational beliefs. But then, fanatics never do, do\nthey?\n\n# \n#>#>|Compared the evidence theists have for their claims to the strength of\n#>#>|their demands makes the whole thing not only irrational but antirational.\n#>#>\n#>#>I can\'t agree with this until you are specific - *which* theism? To\n#>#>say that all theism is necessarily antirational requires a proof which\n#>#>I suspect you do not have.\n#>#>\n#>#\n#>#Using the traditonal definition of gods. Personal, supernatural entities\n#>#with objective effects on this world. Usually connected to morals and/or\n#>#the way the world works.\n#>\n#>IMO, any belief about such gods is necessarily irrational. That does\n#>not mean that people who hold them are in principle opposed to the exercise of\n#>intelligence. Some atheists are also scientists, for example.\n#>\n# \n#They don\'t use theism when doing science. Or it wouldn\'t be science. Please\n#note that subjective data lend themselves to a scientific treatment as well.\n#They just prohibit formulating them as objective statements.\n\nErgo, nothing is objective. Fair enough.\n# \n# \n#>#>|The affinity to fanatism is easily seen. It has to be true because I believe\n#>#>|it is nothing more than a work hypothesis. However, the beliefs say they are\n#>#>|more than a work hypothesis.\n#>#>\n#>#>I don\'t understand this. Can you formalise your argument?\n#>#\n#>#Person A believes system B becuase it sounds so nice. That does not make\n#>#B true, it is at best a work hypothesis. However, the content of B is that\n#>#it is true AND that it is more than a work hypothesis. Testing or evaluating\n#>#evidence for or against it therefore dismissed because B (already believed)\n#>#says it is wronG/ a waste of time/ not possible. Depending on the further\n#>#contents of B Amalekites/Idolaters/Protestants are to be killed, this can\n#>#have interesting effects.\n#>\n#>Peculiar definition of interesting, but sure. Now show that a belief\n#>in gods entails the further contents of which you speak. Why aren\'t my\n#>catholic neighbours out killing the protestants, for example? Maybe they\n#>don\'t believe in it. Maybe it\'s the conjunction of "B asserts B" and\n#>"jail/kill dissenters" that is important, and the belief in gods is\n#>entirely irrelevant. It certainly seems so to me, but then I have no\n#>axe to grind here.\n#>\n# \n#The example with your neighbours is a fallacy. That *your* neighbours don\'t\n#says little about others. And there were times when exactly that happened.\n\nNope, it\'s not a fallacy. It just doesn\'t go to the correlation you\nwish to see.\n# \n#And tell me, when it is not irrelevant, why are such statements about\n#Amalekites and Idolaters in the Holy Books? Please note that one could\n#edit them out when they are not relevant anymore. Because gods don\'t err?\n#What does that say about that message?\n\nExcuse me - THE Holy Books?\n# \n#And how come we had theists saying genocides ordered by god are ok. A god\n#is the easiest way to excuse anything, and therefore highly attracting to\n#fanatics. Not to mention the effect interpretation by these fanatics can\n#have on the rest of the believers. Happens again and again and again.\n\nA god is neither the easiest way to excuse anything, nor the only way.\n\n\n-- \nFrank O\'Dwyer \'I\'m not hatching That\'\nodwyer@sse.ie from "Hens", by Evelyn Conlon\n',
'From: REXLEX@fnnews.fnal.gov\nSubject: Re: FAQ essay on homosexuality\nOrganization: FNAL\nLines: 82\n\nIn article <May.14.02.10.20.1993.25156@athos.rutgers.edu>\nhudson@athena.cs.uga.edu (Paul Hudson Jr) writes:\n>I think we must be careful before we totally throw out Leviticus. \n>If the Law is reflection of God\'s character and true holy nature, then\n>those who say that God endorses homosexuality run into a problem\n\n\nThough this will be addressed in the series of articles I\'m posting now under\n"ARESNOKOITIA", I can\'t wait. This just really blew my socks off. Read I Tim\n1: 3-11. Verses 3-8 speaks against those who have perverted the teachings of\nthe Mosaic Law. In vv.9-10, we have, *IN ORDER*, the 5th thru the 9th\ncommandments and in the midst of this listing is "homosexuals." The decalogue,\nabove everything else, is seen as God\'s absolute. If you don\'t believe in\nabsolutes, then you have nothing do do with Jehovah of the OT, which Paul\nreveals to be the Messiah of the NT. "Lord Christ Jesus" transliterates to read\n"Jehovah\'s Anointed Savior." \n In I Cor5, we see the same emphasis of moral separation from the pagan\ngentiles as we do in Lev 18-20. In I Cor 6:9-10, only one notation (drunkards)\nis not found in Lev 18-20. Paul was not naive in his use of the LXX. He knew\nfull well how he was using the Law of God that was given in the OT, for\napplication in the NT. As I\'ve said, the Law was fulfilled, not done away\nwith.\n\n>>of questions we are trying to deal with. He encountered homosexuality\n>>only in contexts where most people would probably agree that it was\n>>wrong. He had never faced the experience of Christians who try to act\n>>"straight" and fail, and he had never faced Christians who are trying\n>>to define a Christian homosexuality, which fits with general Christian\n>>ideals of fidelity and of seeing sexuality as a mirror of the\n>>relationship between God and man. It is unfair to take Paul\'s\n>>judgement on homosexuality among idolaters and use it to make\n>>judgements on these questions.\n\nThis understanding is thoroughly rebutted in DeYoungs article that is being\nposted. Please refer to it.\n\n>\n>One of the reasons that some of us do not accept that common argument\n>is because Paul probably did face this and other problems. \n\nWe can do better than "probably" which is not an adequate defense against the\nstatement that Paul\'s culture didn\'t have the same understanding of\nhomosexuality as ours. \nAgain read the article because it uses facts.\n\n>>I claim that the question of how to counsel homosexual Christians is\n>>not entirely a theological issue, but also a pastoral one.\n>\n>I don\'t see how you come to that conclusion.\n\nI think I do, because I have worked in the homosexual community by means of\nworking with AIDs patients. The pastoral is merely the practical application\nof the theological truth however. Those who are working thru the issue of\nhomosexuality need to have our love and understanding just as with a friend who\nis contiplating cheating on his wife or a friend who lives with his girlfriend,\nyet you continue to witness to him. But, once the choice is made, and there is\nno remorse, then I feel that Paul\'s "pastoral" care, as presented in the\nCorinthian Church, come to bear significance. THe one in active rebellion\nshould be placed outside of the church if a believer, and if a non-believer,\nthen one wipes his sandels and leaves it in Gods hand. If there was a member\nin your youth group who was constantly pawing at the little girls, you wouldn\'t\nhesitate to deal with the matter quickly and decisivly. That, in part, betrays\nthe present "political correctness" of the issue. Pederasty is not accepted at\nthe present, but some how we are to accept homosexuality because the latter is\npolitically correct, while the former is not -at least not yet. THis is how\nthe morals decay. \n\nI guess this would follow the liberal application in the political realm of\neconomics. The liberals want to tax the rich in the federal, yet in their own\nstates, when they try to get businesses to settle there, they give tax\nincentives to these same richies. It comes down to a moral code of\nrelativeness, or to use the cultural thing, politically correct -at the moment.\n--Rex\n\n[You might want to look over 1 Tim 1:10 again. If this is really the\n5th through 9th commandments, we seem to be missing thieves, and\nhomosexuals would have to be fit in under adultery. This is of course\npossible if "arsenokoitia" has a narrower meaning than homosexuality\nin general, but I think that\'s not your thesis. I have no objection\nper se to the idea that the author of 1 Tim might have quoted the 10\ncommandments, but 5 through 9, minus one and plus a few things, begins\nto look a bit marginal. --clh]\n',
'From: scheiber@sage.cc.purdue.edu (Jennifer Scheiber)\nSubject: Re: Pregnency without sex?\nKeywords: pregnency sex\nOrganization: Purdue University Computing Center\nLines: 33\n\nIn article <10030@blue.cis.pitt.edu> kxgst1+@pitt.edu (Kenneth Gilbert) writes:\n>In article <stephen.735806195@mont> stephen@mont.cs.missouri.edu (Stephen Montgomery-Smith) writes:\n>:When I was a school boy, my biology teacher told us of an incident\n>:in which a couple were very passionate without actually having\n>:sexual intercourse. Somehow the girl became pregnent as sperm\n>:cells made their way to her through the clothes via persperation.\n>:\n>:Was my biology teacher misinforming us, or do such incidents actually\n>:occur?\n>\n>Sounds to me like someone was pulling your leg. There is only one way for\n>pregnancy to occur: intercourse. These days however there is also\n>artificial insemination and implantation techniques, but we\'re speaking of\n>"natural" acts here. It is possible for pregnancy to occur if semen is\n>deposited just outside of the vagina (i.e. coitus interruptus), but that\'s\n>about at far as you can get. Through clothes -- no way. Better go talk\n>to your biology teacher.\n>\n>-- \n>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-|-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=\n>= Kenneth Gilbert __|__ University of Pittsburgh =\n>= General Internal Medicine | "...dammit, not a programmer!" =\n>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-|-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=\n\n what is the likely hood of conception if sperm is deposited just outside\nthe vagina? ie. __% chance.\n -------------------------------------------------------------------------\n\n-- \n_____________________________________________________________________________\n* J e n n i f e r S c h e i b e r *\nemail: scheiber@sage.cc.purdue.edu School of Nursing - Purdue University\n~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~\n',
"From: revdak@netcom.com (D. Andrew Kille)\nSubject: Re: Homosexuality issues in Christianity\nOrganization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)\nLines: 28\n\nDarin Johnson (djohnson@cs.ucsd.edu) wrote:\n: Ok, what's more important to gay Christians? Sex, or Christianity?\n: Christianity I would hope. Would they be willing to forgo sex\n: completely, in order to avoid being a stumbling block to others,\n: to avoid the chance that their interpretation might be wrong,\n: etc? If not, why not? Heterosexuals abstain all the time.\n: (It would be nice if protestant churches had celibate orders\n: to show the world that sex is not the important thing in life)\n\nThe difference is that straight members are given the choice of\nabstaining or not, and celibacy is recognized as a gift, given only\nto some. Gays are told that, as a condition of acceptance, they\n_must_ be celibate. I don't believe that God gives me a forced choice\nbetween having a relationship with God and expressing my heterosexuality\n(within the context of a faithful relationship). Nor do I believe\nthat God gives that forced choice to gays. Sex or Christianity is a\nfalse dichotomy.\n\n: To tell the truth, gay churches remind me a lot of Henry the VIII\n: starting the Church of England in order to get a divorce (or is\n: this a myth). Note that I am not denying that gay Christians are\n: Christian.\n\nFor my part, gay churches remind me of blacks starting their own churches\neither because they were not allowed at all in the white churches, or, at\nbest, only with special restrictions that did not apply to white members.\n\nrevdak@netcom.com\n",
'From: adamsj@gtewd.mtv.gtegsc.com\nSubject: Re: Homosexuality issues in Christianity\nReply-To: adamsj@gtewd.mtv.gtegsc.com\nOrganization: GTE Govt. Systems, Electronics Def. Div.\nLines: 18\n\nIn article <May.13.02.29.39.1993.1505@geneva.rutgers.edu>, revdak@netcom.com (D. Andrew Kille) writes:\n> Of course the whole issue is one of discernment. It may be that Satan\n> is trying to convince us that we know more than God. Or it may be that\n> God is trying (as God did with Peter) to teach us something we don\'t\n> know- that "God shows no partiality, but in every nation anyone who fears\n> him and does what is right is acceptable to him." (Acts 10:34-35).\n> \n> revdak@netcom.com\n\nFine, but one of the points of this entire discussion is that "we"\n(conservative, reformed christians - this could start an argument...\nBut isn\'t this idea that homosexuality is ok fairly "new" [this\ncentury] ? Is there any support for this being a viable viewpoint\nbefore this century? I don\'t know.) don\'t believe that homosexuality\nis "acceptable to Him". So your scripture quotation doesn\'t work for\n"us".\n\n-jeff adams-\n',
"From: bf455@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Bonita Kale)\nSubject: Re: HELP for Kidney Stones ..............\nOrganization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)\nLines: 21\nReply-To: bf455@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Bonita Kale)\nNNTP-Posting-Host: slc4.ins.cwru.edu\n\n\n\nIn a previous article, jeffs@sr.hp.com (Jeff Silva) says:\n I was told by my doctor\n>at that time that the pain was comparable to that of childbirth. (Yes,\n>by a male doctor, so I'm sure some of you women will disagree). I'd\n>really like to know the truth in this, so maybe some of you women who\n>have had a baby and a kidney stone could fill me in. \n\n\n\nI've had three children and the pain was different in degree for each. I\nthink it just depends. I was impressed by how awful a kidney stone seemed\nto be, when I saw a relative with one. I bet they depend, too--some are\nprobably worse than others.\n\nPain--yucch.\n\n\nBonita Kale\n\n",
'From: max@hilbert.cyprs.rain.com (Max Webb)\nSubject: Re: earthquake prediction\nOrganization: Cypress Semi, Beaverton OR\nLines: 55\n\nIn article <May.11.02.37.28.1993.28163@athos.rutgers.edu> dan@ingres.com (a Rose arose) writes:\n>: > I believe with everything in my heart that on May 3, 1993, the city of\n>: >Portland, Oregon in the country of the United States of America will be hit\n>: >with a catastrophic and disastrous earthquake...\n>: By now, we know that this did not come to pass....\n\nSurprise, surprise. I sure didn\'t lose any sleep over it, and I live there.\n\n>Mistakes in this area are costly and dangerous. For me, my greatest fears\n>in this area would be the following:[..]\n>4--were God to call me to be a prophet and I were to misrepresent God\'s Word,\n> my calling would be lost forever. God\'s Word would command the people\n> never to listen to or fear my words as I would be a false prophet. My\n> bridges would be burnt forever. Perhaps I could repent and be saved, but\n> I could never again be a prophet of God.\n\nSuppose someone said that he was sure that he would return from death,\nin glory and power, flying in the clouds with the host of heaven,soon, within\nthe lifetimes of those then standing with him - and 2000 years went by without\nany such event. [He also asserted, so they say, himself to be God.]\n\n2 questions:\n\n\t1) Is that one of those "false prophecies" you were talking about?\n\t2) Does that make the speaker a false prophet?\n\n>Speak directly. If the Lord has given you something to say, say it.\n>But, before I declare "thus sayeth the Lord", I\'d better know for certain\n>without a shadow of a doubt that I am in the correct spiritual condition\n>and relationship with the Lord to receive such a prophecy and be absolutely\n>certain, again, without the tiniest shadow of a doubt that there is no\n>possibility of my being misled by my own imaginations or by my hope of gaining\n>recognition or of being misled by the wiles of the devil and his followers.\n\nUhh, Has it occurred to you that there is no way to know any of these\nthings, for certain, "without the tiniest shadow of a doubt"? That people\nwho thought they did have also been deluded?\n\nThose of us who believe in actually being able to _CHECK_ our opinions\nhave an out - we can check against some external reality. Those who\nassert that beliefs entertained without evidence, or even despite evidence\nhave a special virtue (ie. "faith") are out of luck -- and this is the\nresult.\n\n>It\'s time that we christians give an example of honesty that stands out in\n>contrast against this backdrop of falsehood. When we say, "thus sayeth the\n>Lord", it happens. When we pray, prayer is answered because we prayed right.\n>When we say we\'re christians, we really mean it.\n>\n> Dan\n\nYou want to demonstrate Christian honesty? Great.\nStart with the prophecy above - what can we conclude about the speaker?\n\n\tMax\n',
'From: val@fcom.cc.utah.edu (Val Kartchner)\nSubject: Re: Where did the hacker ethic go?\nOrganization: University of Utah Computer Center\nX-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]\nLines: 133\n\nVINCI (filipe@vxcrna.cern.ch) wrote:\n: In article <1993May12.193454.29823@hal.com>, bobp@hal.com (Bob Pendleton) writes...\n: >From article <1993May7.235404.22590@pony.Ingres.COM>, by mwmeyer@Ingres.COM (Mike (wading through the muck and) Meyer):\n: >> In article <1993May7.165432.16935@hal.com> bobp@hal.com (Bob Pendleton) writes:\n: >> This is getting pretty silly. First off, "Hacker" is an obsolete term.\n: >> Doesn\'t matter what it used to mean, today it means "thief."\n: >> \n: >> It only means "thief" if you want it to mean that. To me, it means\n\n: [Lots of context wickedly omitted by myself :-) ]\n: > \n: >Anyway, if I say "Joe is a hacker" to most english speaking people who\n: >know the word they\'ll probably think he is either a poor golfer or a\n: >bad carpenter. But there are very very few people who will think he is\n: >a good and clever programmer. :-)\n: > \n: >If you chose to call yourself by a term that means "thief" don\'t be\n: >surprised when people think you are a thief. Even if you don\'t agree\n: >with that definition of the word.\n: ^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^ \n: [....] The narrower view that a hacker, when\n: associated with the computing environment, is a dishonest\n: expert is not so widespread, I\'m my opinion, at least with the\n: people involved with the field. IMHO the wider meaning is not\n: obsolete at all, no matter how much the lay press would like it to\n: be! [....]\n\n: Therefore I conclude that if you call yourself a hacker, and somebody\n: perceives you as a thief, then this person belongs to a very very\n: small group that has some computer knowledge, but not enough to know\n: the wider (and original) meaning of the word. [....]\n\nUnfortunately, the general public has a very narrow view of the deep, dark\nrecesses of the art of computing. What little they do see is from the view\ngiven to them by the media. From what I have seen from the media, \'hacker\'\nis not a proper way by which to refer to a respected person.\n\nI, on the other hand, know what \'hacker\' means from those who consider\nthemselves such. Following is the definition from "Jargon File 2.9.10".\n(This is also known as the "Hackers Dictionary".) The definitions are\narranged in order of decreasing frequency of usage:\n\n :hacker: [originally, someone who makes furniture with an axe] n.\n 1. A person who enjoys exploring the details of programmable\n systems and how to stretch their capabilities, as opposed to most\n users, who prefer to learn only the minimum necessary. 2. One who\n programs enthusiastically (even obsessively) or who enjoys\n programming rather than just theorizing about programming. 3. A\n person capable of appreciating {hack value}. 4. A person who is\n good at programming quickly. 5. An expert at a particular program,\n or one who frequently does work using it or on it; as in \'a UNIX\n hacker\'. (Definitions 1 through 5 are correlated, and people who\n fit them congregate.) 6. An expert or enthusiast of any kind. One\n might be an astronomy hacker, for example. 7. One who enjoys the\n intellectual challenge of creatively overcoming or circumventing\n limitations. 8. [deprecated] A malicious meddler who tries to\n discover sensitive information by poking around. Hence \'password\n hacker\', \'network hacker\'. See {cracker}.\n\n The term \'hacker\' also tends to connote membership in the global\n community defined by the net (see {network, the} and\n {Internet address}). It also implies that the person described\n is seen to subscribe to some version of the hacker ehic (see\n {hacker ethic, the}).\n\n It is better to be described as a hacker by others than to describe\n oneself that way. Hackers consider themselves something of an\n elite (a meritocracy based on ability), though one to which new\n members are gladly welcome. There is thus a certain ego\n satisfaction to be had in identifying yourself as a hacker (but if\n you claim to be one and are not, you\'ll quickly be labeled\n {bogus}). See also {wannabee}.\n\n :hacker ethic, the: n. 1. The belief that information-sharing\n is a powerful positive good, and that it is an ethical duty of\n hackers to share their expertise by writing free software and\n facilitating access to information and to computing resources\n wherever possible. 2. The belief that system-cracking for fun\n and exploration is ethically OK as long as the cracker commits\n no theft, vandalism, or breach of confidentiality.\n\n Both of these normative ethical principles are widely, but by no\n means universally) accepted among hackers. Most hackers subscribe\n to the hacker ethic in sense 1, and many act on it by writing and\n giving away free software. A few go further and assert that\n *all* information should be free and *any* proprietary\n control of it is bad; this is the philosophy behind the {GNU}\n project.\n\n Sense 2 is more controversial: some people consider the act of\n cracking itself to be unethical, like breaking and entering.\n But this principle at least moderates the behavior of people who\n see themselves as `benign\' crackers (see also {samurai}). On\n this view, it is one of the highest forms of hackerly courtesy\n to (a) break into a system, and then (b) explain to the sysop,\n preferably by email from a {superuser} account, exactly how it\n was done and how the hole can be plugged --- acting as an\n unpaid (an unsolicited) {tiger team}.\n\n The most reliable manifestation of either version of the hacker\n ethic is that almost all hackers are actively willing to share\n technical tricks, software, and (where possible) computing\n resources with other hackers. Huge cooperative networks such as\n {USENET}, {Fidonet} and Internet (see {Internet address})\n can function without central control because of this trait; they\n both rely on and reinforce a sense of community that may be\n hackerdom\'s most valuable intangible asset.\n\n: Finally, a true hacker does not name himself/herself one, for this is\n: a title that is bestowed by the befuddled sysadmins and users at large.\n: To me, a sign of a truly great hacker is to be introduced to someone who\n: says "Nahh, I just know a thing or two, people always exagerate..." :-)\n\nNote that the above definition does not preclude a hacker from describing\nlimself (meaning: himself/herself) one, but simply says that it is better\nnot to do so. There are many who do not know the meaning of \'hacker\'. So,\nin order to defend the true meaning of the word, it is sometimes necessary\nto borrow on the reputation of a known (respected) hacker around the\nworkplace. (This means that \'hacker\' is defined in terms of some well-known\nand respected person.) Sometimes, there may only be one such person.\n\n: >No matter what Mr. Dumpty says, language doesn\'t work that way.\n: Actually it does, you just have to get adequate press coverage... :-)\n\nLanguage works anyway that we want it to work. The purpose of language is\nto communicate. To oversimplify: As long as communication is taking place,\nthen language is working.\n\n--\n|================= #include <stddisclaimer.h> ================///=============|\n| "AMIGA: The computer for the creative mind" (tm) Commodore /// Weber State |\n| "Macintosh: The computer for the rest of us"(tm) Apple \\\\\\/// University |\n|== "I think, therefore I AMiga" -- val@csulx.weber.edu ==\\///= Ogden UT USA =|\n',
'From: johnchad@triton.unm.edu (jchadwic)\nSubject: Another request for Darwin Fish\nOrganization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque\nLines: 11\nNNTP-Posting-Host: triton.unm.edu\n\nHello Gang,\n\nThere have been some notes recently asking where to obtain the DARWIN fish.\nThis is the same question I have and I have not seen an answer on the\nnet. If anyone has a contact please post on the net or email me.\n\nThanks,\n\njohn chadwick\njohnchad@triton.unm.edu\nor\n',
'From: meg_arnold@qm.sri.com (Meg Arnold)\nSubject: Botulinum Toxin, type A\nOrganization: SRI International\nLines: 24\nDistribution: world\nNNTP-Posting-Host: 128.18.35.50\n\nI am looking for statistics on the prevalence of disorders that are\ntreatable with Botulinum Type A. These disorders include: facial\ndyskinesia, meige syndrome, hemifacial spasm, apraxia of eyelid openeing,\naberrant regeneration of the facial nerve, facial paralysis, strabismus,\nspasmodic torticollis, muscle spasm, occupational dystonia (i.e. writers\ncramp, etc.), spasmodic dysphonia, and temporal mandibular joint disease.\n\nI realize many of the disorders I listed (such as "muscle spasm" !!) are\nvaguely defined and may encompass a wide range of particular disorders. My\napologies; the list was provided to me as is. I have some numbers, but not\nreliable. \n\nAny ideas on sources or, even bbetter, any actual figures (with source\nlisted)?\n\nMany thanks,\n\n- Meg\n\n~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~\n~ Meg Arnold, Business Intelligence Center, SRI International. ~ \n~ 333 Ravenswood Avenue, Menlo Park, CA 94025. ~ \n~ phone: (415) 859-3764 internet: meg_arnold@qm.sri.com ~\n~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~\n',
'From: REXLEX@fnnews.fnal.gov\nSubject: Re: Question about hell\nOrganization: FNAL\nLines: 93\n\nIn article <May.14.02.11.45.1993.25249@athos.rutgers.edu> pwhite@empros.com\n(Peter White) writes\n>Luke 16 talks about the rich man and Lazarus. Matthew 25 talks about \n>the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. Revelations\n>20 and 21 reference this fire as the place where unbelievers are\n>thrown. Matthew 18 talks about being thrown into the eternal fire and\n>the fire of hell. It seems quite clear that there is this place where\n>a fire burns forever. From the Revelations passages it is clear that\n>the devil and his angels will be tormented there forever. From the\n>Matthew 25 passage it doesn\'t seem abundantly clear whether the\n>punishment of unbelievers is everlasting in the sense of final or\n>in the sense of continual. \n\nYou\'ve missed on very important passage.\n\n2 Thess. 1:6-10\n For after all it is only just for God to repay with affliction those who\nafflict you, and to give relief to you who are afflicted and to us as well when\nthe Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with His mighty angels in flaming\nfire, dealing out retribution to those who do not know God and to those who do\nnot obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. And these will pay the penalty of\neternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of\nHis power, when He comes to be glorified in His saints on that day, and to be\nmarveled at among all who have believed-- for our testimony to you was\nbelieved.\n\nThings to note from this passage. Unbelievers are both those who openly reject\nthe gospel, and those who do not know God. The eternal destruction is the same\nas the eternal hope in 2:16. This distructions primarily emphasize that it is\nseparation from the presence of God. THe context is speaking of the 2nd advent\nwhile 2:1 is speaking of the rapture. Don\'t confuse the two. \n>\n>In the Bible, I am not aware of any discussion about the specifics of\n>hell beyond the general of hot, unpleasant and torment.\n\nYet we have a far greater discription of hell that we do heaven.\n\n For instance,\n>it is not discussed how (if at all) the rich man can\n>continually stay in the fire and still feel discomfort or pain or\n>whether there is some point at which the pain sensing ability is\n>burned up. If you can forgive the graphicalness, if you throw a\n>physical body into a fire, assuming the person starts out alive,\n>at some fairly quick point, the nerves are destroyed and pain is\n>no longer sensed. \n\nIf this was like earthly fire that requires a gas producing substance to\nignite.\nHowever, there seems to be a different type of fire as expressed in the burning\nbush that was not consumed. Also, the Daniel acct. shows that the laws of\nnature can be interupted even with earthly fire.\n\n>It is not stated what occurs when at the judgement,\n>the unbelievers, (who are already physically dead) are cast into hell\n\nMaybe you don\'t understand. There will be those who are alive at the end of\nthe millenium, who will walk straight into the GWTJ. Even those who have died\nin their sin will be resurrected, i.e. reunited with their physical body, to\nreceive condemnation.\n\n>i.e. they no longer have a physical body so they can\'t feel physical pain.\n\nThis is contrary to the teaching of Scripture.\n\n> What could be sensed continually is that those in hell are\n>to be forever without God. \n> \n>The Lazarus/rich man parable is told with the idea of having the listener\n>think in physical terms in order to get the point that some people\n>won\'t listen to God even after he rises from the dead. \n\nTHis is conjecture at best if you are using it to support the "no physical\nbody" thesis.\n\n>The point of\n>the parable is to reach the hard-hearted here who are not listening\n>to the fact of the resurrection nor the Gospel about Jesus Christ.\n>It seems reasonable to also draw from the parable that hell is\n>not even remotely pleasant.\n\nThe true awlfulness of hell, is that it is eternal separation from God, after\nhaving seen the glory of His presence at the GWTJ. But whether it was open\nrebellion against the revealed gospel of Christ or if it is not having known\nGOd (not saught Him as He is), then as Paul says, they are without excuss and\nthat every mouth will be stopped. There will be no defense at the judgment\nseat of God. THerefore we understand "it is appointed unto man once to die, and\nthen comes judgment" literally. \n\njust because it is horrific, doesn\'t make it less of a reality. \nit should compel those of us who have the riches of Christ to share it with\nothers\n\n--Rex\n',
'From: elg@silver.lcs.mit.edu (Elizabeth Glaser)\nSubject: net address for WHO\nOrganization: MIT Laboratory for Computer Science\nLines: 18\n\nI am looking for the email address of the World Health Organization,\nin particular the address for the Department of Nursing or the Chief\nScientist for Nursing: Dr. Miriam Hirschfeld. The snail-mail address I\nhave is the following:\n\n World Health Organization\n 20 Avenue Appia\n 1211 Geneva 27\n Switzerland\n\nPlease respond directly to me. Thank you for your assistance.\n\n\n\n --- elg ---\n\nElizabeth Glaser, RN\nelg@silver.lcs.mit.edu\n',
'From: cmtan@iss.nus.sg (Tan Chade Meng - dan)\nSubject: Re: Why?\nOrganization: Institute Of Systems Science, NUS\nX-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4\nLines: 20\n\nboyd@acsu.buffalo.edu (Daniel F Boyd) writes:\n: \n: If the Bible is such incredible proof of Christianity, then why aren\'t\n: the Muslims or the Hindus convinced?\n: \n: If the Qur\'an is such incredible proof of Islam, then why aren\'t the\n: Hindus or the Christians convinced?\n\nIf God exists, why aren\'t atheists convinced?\n\n--\n\n------------------+--------------------------------------------------------\n |\nTan Chade Meng | "Yes, sir, I have only ONE question:\nSingapore | \ncmtan@iss.nus.sg | What is going on?!" \n |\n------------------+--------------------------------------------------------\n\n',
'Subject: Re: Virtual Reality for X on the CHEAP!\nFrom: tpot@ironbark (Tim Potter)\nDistribution: inet\nOrganization: University College of Northern Victoria (Bendigo)\nNNTP-Posting-Host: ironbark.ucnv.edu.au\nX-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL3\nLines: 27\n\npeter@gort.trl.OZ.AU (Peter K. Campbell) writes:\n: ridout@bink.plk.af.mil (Brian S. Ridout) writes:\n: \n: >In article <1993Apr15.134802.21995@mfltd.co.uk>, sts@mfltd.co.uk (Steve Sherwood (x5543)) writes:\n: >|> Has anyone got multiverse to work ?\n: >|> Extn 5543, sts@mfltd.co.uk, !uunet!mfocus!sts\n: \n: I\'ve tried compiling it on several SPARCstations with gcc 2.22. After\n: fixing up a few bugs (3 missing constant definitions plus a couple of\n: other things) I got it to compile & link, but after starting client\n: & server I just get a black window; sometimes the client core dumps,\n: sometimes the server, sometimes I get a broken pipe, sometimes it\n: just sits there doing nothing although I occassionally get the\n: cursor to become a cross-hair in dog-fight, but that\'s it. I\'ve\n: sent word to the author plus what I did to fix it last week, but\n: no reply as yet.\n: \n: Peter K. Campbell\n: p.campbell@trl.oz.au\n\nI\'ve discovered a bug in the libraries/parser/parser.c loadcolour function where it was generating a segmentation fault. It appears the colourList[] is geting corrupted somehow. I had it return random colours instead and everything worked great (except for a few colour problems) so I know its the only thing wrong.\n\nThe colour table somehow gets a couple of nulls placed in it so when the "name" of the colours are compared it crashes. I haven\'t found the problem yet maybe someone else can.\n--\nAdrian Turner\nUniversity College of Northern Victoria\nturner@ironbark.ucnv.edu.au\n',
'From: cokely@nb.rockwell.com (Scott Cokely)\nSubject: Re: Homosexuality issues in Christianity\nOrganization: Rockwell International\nLines: 79\n\nIn <May.13.02.30.39.1993.1545@geneva.rutgers.edu> noye@midway.uchicago.edu (vera shanti noyes) writes:\n\n>In article <May.11.02.39.05.1993.28328@athos.rutgers.edu> carlson@ab24.larc.nasa.gov (Ann Carlson) writes:\n\n>[bible verses ag./ used ag. homosexuality deleted]\n\n>>Anyone who thinks being gay and Christianity are not compatible should \n>>check out Dignity, Integrity, More Light Presbyterian churches, Affirmation,\n>>MCC churches, etc. Meet some gay Christians, find out who they are, pray\n>>with them, discuss scripture with them, and only *then* form your opinion.\n\n>also check out the episcopal church -- although by no means all\n>episcopalians are sympathetic to homosexual men and women, there\n>certainly is a fairly large percentage (in my experience) who are. i\n>am good friends with an episcopalian minister who is ordained and\n>living in a monogamous homosexual relationship. this in no way\n>diminishes his ability to minister -- in fact he has a very\n>significant ministry with the gay and lesbian association of his\n>community, as well as a very significant aids ministry.\n\nThis may sound argumentative, but do the pro-homosexual crowd give the\nsame support to church members that are involved in incestuous relationships?\nIf we do a little substitution above, we get:\n\n"although by no means all episcopalians are sympathetic to incestuous\nmen and women, there certainly is a fairly larget percentage (in my\nexperience) who are. I am good friends with an episcopalian minister\nwho is ordained and living in a monogamous incestual relationship. This\nin no way diminishes his ability to minister -- in fact he has a very\nsignificant ministry with the Incest association of his community..."\n\nDo the same standards apply? If not, why not? And while we\'re in the\nballpark, what about bestiality? I can\'t recall offhand if there are\nany direct statements in the Bible regarding sex with animals; does that\nactivity have more or less a sanction?\n\nPlease avoid responses such as "you\'re taking this to extremes". I would\nguess that a disproportionate percentage of the inerrant Bible community\nviews homosexual acts with distaste in the same manner that society at\nlarge views incest.\n\n-- \n---------------------------------------------------------------------\nScott Cokely | (714) 833-4760 scott.cokely@nb.rockwell.com\t\t \n"They came for the Davidians, but I did not speak up because\n I was not a Davidian. Then they came for me..." Opinions expressed\nare mine and do not represent those of Rockwell.\n---------------------------------------------------------------------\n\n\n[ Obviously you can replace homosexuality in the above statement by\nanything from murder to sleeping late. That doesn\'t mean that the\nsame people would accept those substitutions. The question is whether\nthe relationships involved do in fact form an appropriate vehicle to\nrepresent Christ\'s relationship to humanity. This is at least\n*partly* an empirical question. \n\nIn some cases types of human relationship have been rejected because\nover time they always seem to lead to trouble. I think that\'s the\ncase with slavery. One can argue that in theory, if you follow Paul\'s\nguidelines, it\'s possible to have Christian slaveholders. But in\npractice, over a period of time, most people came to the conclusion\nthat nobody can really have that degree of control over another and\nnot abuse it. \n\nThe message you were responding to was asking you to look at the\nresults from Christian communities that endorse homosexuality. (Note:\nChristian homosexuals, not people you see on the news advocating some\nextremist agenda). You may not want to base your decision completely\non that kind of observation, but I would argue that it\'s at least\nrelevant. You can\'t answer the request by asking why you shouldn\'t\nlook at the Incest association, because in fact there is no such\nassociation. If there were, it might be reasonable for you to look at\nit too. Of course that doesn\'t mean that the results of all such\nexaminations would necessarily come out the same way. Part of why\nthere aren\'t groups pushing all possible relaxed standards is that\nsome of them do produce obviously bad results.\n\n--clh]\n',
'From: aidler@sol.uvic.ca (E Alan Idler)\nSubject: Re: The doctrine of Original Sin\nOrganization: University of Victoria\nLines: 49\n\nIn article <May.10.05.07.56.1993.3582@athos.rutgers.edu>, \nmuddmj@wkuvx1.bitnet writes:\n> > Therefore, until someone is capable of comprehending \n> > God\'s laws they are not accountable for living them. \n> > They are in the book of life and are not removed until \n> > they can make a conscious decision to disobey God. \n> > \n> > A IDLER \n> \n> If babies are not supposed to be baptised then why doesn\'t the Bible \n>> ever say so. It never comes right and says "Only people that know \n> right from wrong or who are taught can be baptised." \n> What Christ did say was : \n> \n> "I solemly assure you, NO ONE can enter God\'s kingdom without \n> being born of water and Spirit ... Do not be surprised that I \n> tell you you must ALL be begotten from above." \n> \n> Could this be because everyone is born with original sin? \n\nIn some earlier discussions on this thread I may have\ngiven the impression that even though children didn\'t \nrequire baptism it wouldn\'t hurt if they were.\nTo the contrary, when you baptize children before\nthey are capable of comprehending it you deny them \ntheir opportunity to demonstrate their desire to\nserve God.\n\nHave any of you considered that children are not\naccountable for sin because they are not capable of \nrepentance?\nPeter said to a group of "men and brethren," "Repent\nand be baptized every one of you" (Acts 2:38).\nNotice that he specified that if they *repent* then \nthey may be *baptized*.\n\nIn following Peter\'s instructions people must first\ndemonstrate repentance (a forsaking of their sins and \na desire to obey God\'s commands) *before* they are \neligible to be baptized.\n\nSince young children are not capable of repenting,\nthey are not eligible for baptism.\nAnd since God is both just and merciful "sin is not \nimputed when there is no law" (Romans 5:13), young \nchildren are not accountable for what they can\'t \ncomprehend.\n\nA IDLER\n',
"From: rhc52134@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Richard)\nSubject: Re: Adobe Photo Shop type software for Unix/X/Motif platforms?\nOrganization: University of Illinois at Urbana\nLines: 6\n\nAppsoft Image is available for NeXTStep. It is a image processing program\nsimilar to Adobe Photoshop. It is reviewed in the April '93 issue of\nPublish! Magazine.\n\n\nRichardt\n",
'From: aaron@minster.york.ac.uk\nSubject: Re: Death Penalty / Gulf War (long)\nDistribution: world\nOrganization: Department of Computer Science, University of York, England\nLines: 18\n\nMark McCullough (mccullou@snake2.cs.wisc.edu) wrote:\n: >Prove it. I have a source that says that to date, the civilian death count\n: >(er, excuse me, I mean "collateral damage") is about 200,000.\n: \n: I have _never_ seen any source that was claiming such a figure. Please\n: post the source so its reliability can be judged. \n\nThis figure would not simply be deaths by bombing, but also death later\nfrom disease (the sewer system of Baghdad was deliberately targeted) and\nstarvation. I believe (but when I get a copy of the latest research in\nJune or July) that this was the figure proposed in the Census Bureau \nreport on the matter. The report was suppressed and the CB attempted to\nsack the author of the report, but failed due to procedural technicality.\nThe author is now on permanent leave. \n\n\t\tAaron Turner\n\n\n',
'From: mikec@sail.LABS.TEK.COM (Micheal Cranford)\nSubject: Re: Rawlins debunks creationism\nSummary: creationist nonsense\nOrganization: Tektronix, Inc., Beaverton, OR.\nLines: 78\n\nJohn E. King (king@ctron.com) posts a whopping one liner:\n\n * "The modern theory of evolution is so inadequate that it deserves to be *\n * treated as a matter of faith." -- Francis Hitching *\n\n I have a few points to make about the above posting.\n\n 1. Science is not based on and does not consist of "quotes" from either\n real or alleged experts. Critical reasoning, evidence and (if possible)\n experimentation are necessary. Creationists frequently display a massive\n confusion about this by merely quoting both non-experts and experts alike\n (some of the latter quotes are in fact false) and steadfastly refusing to\n follow any kind of rigorous scientific procedure. This strongly suggests\n that (a.) their claims completely lack any scientific merit and (b.) they\n are aware of this fatal deficiency. Of course, you may not actually be a\n creationist and this may not be your real intent.\n\n 2. You have failed to identify Hitching and the surrounding context of his\n statement. Why is that? If Hitching is a scientific illiterate then the\n quote would merely display his profound ignorance of evolutionary biology.\n Creationists are frequently known to quote real scientists out of context\n and to fabricate statements that they subsequently attribute to legitimate\n scientists. Of course, you may not actually be a creationist and this may\n not be your real intent.\n\n 3. Evidence supporting the alleged inadequacies of "the modern theory of\n evolution" would be a much more powerful argument than a contextless one\n line quote from an unidentified nobody. It is also important to note that\n disproving biological evolution does not automatically prove some alternate\n claims any more that disproving that the earth is shaped like a hockey puck\n proves that it is a hyperbolic paraboloid. Creationists seem rather fond\n of diving (head first) into this logical fallacy. Of course, you may not\n actually be a creationist and this may not be your real intent.\n\n 4. Since evolution is central to virtually all of modern science, an attack\n on evolution (either the fact or the theory) really represents an attack on\n science. While the theory will unquestionably continue to evolve (B^) the\n fact of evolution will not ever go away. Creationists lost the battle long\n ago (more than 100 years in fact) but are simply too willfully ignorant and\n irrational to acknowledge the fact. Of course, you may not actually be a\n creationist and you may not really be that ignorant.\n\n\nWarren Kurt vonRoeschlaub (kv07@IASTATE.EDU) asks:\n\n * Neither I, nor Webster\'s has ever heard of Francis Hitchings. Who is he? *\n\n I, like Hitchings, am not to be found in Webster\'s B^). Francis Hitchings\nis a scientifically illiterate creationist (or perhaps he is just playing the\npart of one) who wrote a quite ignorant book attacking evolution ("The Neck of\nthe Giraffe"). In that publication he quotes a creationist (Jean Sloat Morton)\nusing the standard invalid creationist probability argument that proteins could\nnot have formed by chance. Thus not only confusing abiogenesis with evolution\n(the two are quite independent) but also concluding with a "non sequitur" (i.e.\nthe conclusion "does not follow"). [pp 70-71] Hitchings also misquotes Richard\nLewontin in an effort to support creationism. [pp 84]\n\n Hitchings book was reviewed by National Park Service ecologist David Graber\nin the Los Angeles Times (and repeated in the Oregonian). The article was\ntitled "`Giraffe\' sticks scientific neck out too far". Excerpts include :\n\n "Francis Hitchings is not a biologist." "He goes after Darwin like Mark\n Antony after Brutus. He flips from scientific reasoning to mysticism and\n pseudo-science with the sinuosity of a snake-oil salesman." "He suggests\n a mystical `organizing principle\' of life, using the similarity of organs\n in different creatures as evidence [sic]."\n\n Note that the last statement above is actually evidence FOR evolution not\nagainst it. If John E. King is quoting from this reviewed book it wouldn\'t\nsurprise me much. It\'s also interesting that King had nothing to add (i.e.\nhe only posted a quote).\n\n\n UUCP: uunet!tektronix!sail!mikec or M.Cranford\n uunet!tektronix!sail.labs.tek.com!mikec Principal Troll\n ARPA: mikec%sail.LABS.TEK.COM@RELAY.CS.NET Resident Skeptic\n CSNet: mikec@sail.LABS.TEK.COM TekLabs, Tektronix\n\n',
'From: JEK@cu.nih.gov\nSubject: two nits picked\nLines: 35\n\nGerry Palo writes:\n\n > Between Adam and Eve and Golgotha the whole process of the fall\n > of man occurred. This involved a gradual dimming of\n > consciousness of the spiritual world. This is discernable in\n > the world outlooks of different peoples through history. The\n > Greek, for example, could say, "better a beggar in the land of\n > the living than a king in the land of the dead." (Iliad, I\n > think).\n\nI would not swear that nothing of the sort is found in the Iliad,\nbut the first passage I thought of was the Odyssey 11:480 or\nthereabouts (my copy has no line numbers). The ghost of Acchilles\nspeaks (Robert FitzGerald translation):\n\n > Better, I say, to break sod as a farm hand\n > for some poor country man, on iron rations,\n > than lord it over all the exhausted dead.\n\nThe next passage I thought of was from Ecclesiastes 9:4\n\n + A living dog is better than a dead lion.\n\n > On the other hand, there is one notion firmly embedded in\n > Christianity that originated most definitely in a pagan source.\n > The idea that the human being consists essentially of soul\n > only, and that the soul is created at birth, was consciously\n > adopted from Aristotle, whose ideas dominated Christian thought\n > for fifteen hundred years and still does today....\n\nSurely Aristotle had little influence on Christian thought before\nabout 1250 AD.\n\n Yours,\n James Kiefer\n',
'From: peng@cipserv1.physik.uni-ulm.de (WEIGUO PENG)\nSubject: SW convert plot to ASCII file\nKeywords: plot ASCII\nOrganization: Uni Ulm Physik\nLines: 2\n\nI am looking for software that reads a plot in PCX or other format and \nconverts it into x,y coordinate.\n',
'From: bruce@liv.ac.uk (Bruce Stephens)\nSubject: Re: Why do people become atheists?\nOrganization: Centre for Mathematical Software Research, Univ. Liverpool\nLines: 31\n\n>>>>> On 11 May 93 06:38:48 GMT, Fil.Sapienza@med.umich.edu (Fil Sapienza) said:\n\n> In article <May.7.01.09.44.1993.14556@athos.rutgers.edu> maxwell c muir,\n> muirm@argon.gas.organpipe.uug.arizona.edu writes:\n\n>>The ambiguity of religious beliefs, an unwillingness to take\n>>Pascal\'s Wager, \n\n> I\'ve heard this frequently - what exactly is Pascal\'s wager?\n\nEither A: God exists, or B: He doesn\'t. We have two choices, either\n1: Believe in God, or 2: Don\'t believe in God. If A is true, then 2\nbrings eternal damnation, whereas 1 brings eternal life. If B is\ntrue, then 1 has minor inconvenience compared with 2. Thus, it is\nrational to believe in God.\n\nThis has numerous flaws, covered in the FAQ for alt.atheism, amongst\nother places.\n\n>>\tDo I sound "broken" to you?\n\n> I don\'t know. You point out that your mother\'s treatment upset you,\n> and see inconsistencies in various religions. I\'m not sure if that\n> constitutes broken-ness or not. It certainly consititutes \n> disillusionment.\n\nDisillusionment strikes me as an excellent reason for stopping\nbelieving in something.\n--\nBruce CMSR, University of Liverpool\nReligion is myth-information\n',
"From: jorna@kub.nl (AEGEE-Tilburg, Remco Jorna)\nSubject: CGM garphics viewer wanted\nOrganization: Tilburg University, Tilburg, The Netherlands\nNntp-Posting-Host: kubvx1\nReply-To: jorna@kub.nl\nNews-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41 \nLines: 7\n\nI'm currently looking for a viewer for Computer Graphics Metafile (CGM)\npictures. Please inform me about a SHAREWARE or FREEWARE version.\n\nThnx,\nRemco\n\nJORNA@KUB.NL\n",
"From: brennan@hal.hahnemann.edu\nSubject: .GIFs on a Tek401x ??\nOrganization: Hahnemann University\nLines: 14\nNNTP-Posting-Host: hal.hahnemann.edu\n\n\n I was skimming through a few gophers and bumped into one at NIH\n with a database that included images in .GIF format. While I have\n not yet worked out the kinks of getting the gopher client to call\n an X viewer, I figure that the majority of the users here are not\n in an X11 environment - instead using DOS and MS-Kermit.\n\n With Kermit supporting Tek4010 emulation for graphics display,\n does anyone know of a package that would allow a Tek to display a\n .GIF image? It would be of more use to the local population to\n plug something of this sort in as the 'picture' command instead of\n XView or XLoadImage ...\n\n andrew. (brennan@hal.hahnemann.edu)\n",
'From: klap@dirac.phys.ualberta.ca (Kevin Klapstein)\nSubject: Re: Are atoms real? \nNntp-Posting-Host: dirac.phys.ualberta.ca\nOrganization: University Of Alberta, Edmonton Canada\nLines: 44\n\nIn article <C5uE4t.G4K@news.rich.bnr.ca> bcash@crchh410.NoSubdomain.NoDomain \n(Brian Cash) writes:\n> Petri and Mathew,\n> \n> Your discusion on the "reality" of atoms is interesting, but it\n> would seem that you are verging on the question "Is anything real":\n> that is, since observation is not 100% reliable, how can we say\n> that anything is "real". I don\'t think this was the intention\n> of the original question, since you now define-out the word\n> "real" so that nothing can meet its criteria.\n> Just a thought.\n> \n> Brian /-|-\\\n> \n> PS Rainbows and Shadows are "real": they are not objects, they\n> are phenomenon. An interesting question would be if atoms\n> are objects (classical) or phenomenon (neo-quantum) or what?\n\nI\'ve been following this train of talk, and the question of dismissing atoms as \nbeing in some sense "not real" leaves me uneasy.\n\nIt seems to be implied that we obseve only the effects, and therefore the \nunderlying thing is not necessarily real. The tree outside my window is in \nthis category... is observe the light which bounces off of it, not the tree \nitself. The observation is indirect, but no more so than observations I have \nmade of atoms.\n\nAlso, what about observations and experiments that have been routinely done \nwith individual atoms. I am thinking in particular of atom trapping \nexperiments and tests of fundamental quantum mechanics such as the quantum Zeno \neffect, where an individual atom is studied for a long period of time.\n\nSome of the attempts at quantum mechanical arguments were not very satisfying \neither. One has to be carefull about making such arguments without a solid \ntechnical background in the field. What I read seemed a little confused a \nquite a red herring.\n\nAnyway, if the purpose of a public debate is to make the audience think, it \nworked. After doing so, I\'m willing to try to defend the following assertion \nif anyone cares:\n\nAtoms are as real as trees, and are real in the ussual every-day sense of the \nword "real".\n\n',
"From: jaeger@buphy.bu.edu (Gregg Jaeger)\nSubject: Re: Yet more Rushdie [Re: ISLAMIC LAW]\nOrganization: Boston University Physics Department\nLines: 35\n\nIn article <C5qt5p.Mvo@blaze.cs.jhu.edu> arromdee@jyusenkyou.cs.jhu.edu (Ken Arromdee) writes:\n\n>In article <115694@bu.edu> jaeger@buphy.bu.edu (Gregg Jaeger) writes:\n\n>>I think many reading this group would also benefit by knowing how\n>>deviant the view _as I've articulated it above_ (which may not be\n>>the true view of Khomeini) is from the basic principles of Islam. \n\n>From the point ov view of an atheist, I see you claim Khomeini wasn't\n>practicing true Islam. But I'm sure that he would have said the same about\n>you. How am I, a member of neither group, supposed to be able to tell which\n>one of you two is really a true Muslim?\n\nThis is a very good point. I have already made the clear claim that\nKhomeini advocates views which are in contradition with the Qur'an\nand have given my arguments for this. This is something that can be\nchecked by anyone sufficiently interested. Khomeini, being dead,\nreally can't respond, but another poster who supports Khomeini has\nresponded with what is clearly obfuscationist sophistry. This should\nbe quite clear to atheists as they are less susceptible to religionist\nmodes of obfuscationism. \n\nSo, to answer your question, the only way you can judge is by learning \nmore about Islam, that is by reading the Qur'an and understanding it's \nbasic principles. Once one has done this it is relatively easy to see \nwho is following the principles of Islam and who is acting in a way at \nodds with Islam. Khomeini by attributing a superhuman status to twelve \nmuslim historical leaders is at variance with one of basic principles \nof Islam, which is that no human being is metaphysically different than \nany other human being and in no sense any closer to God in metaphysical \nnature.\n\n\nGregg\n\n",
'From: rickt@sapphire.zed.com (Rickey Thomas Tom)\nSubject: wanted, how to do a screen dump of a VGA screen\nOrganization: Project Zed\nLines: 14\n\n\tHow can one dump to the printer, the content of a VGA screen. If it were\na text screen, we can execute a shift printscr. but with graphics, we have\nto do a pixed by pixel print. It would be greatly appreciated if someone can\nsupply source code for this. Alternately, are there commercial or shareware\nprograms that are available to do this. I must be able to shell out of my \nprogram to execute this print screen. Therefore, it would be prefferable to have source code.\n\nThank you in advance\n\n-- \n--------------------------------------------------------------------------------\nRickey Tom | Internet Style: aruba!rickt@uu2.psi.com\nProgrammer/Analyst Project ZE | UUCP : ...!uunet!uupsi2!aruba!rickt\n--------------------------------------------------------------------------------\n',
'From: cs89ssg@brunel.ac.uk (Sunil Gupta)\nSubject: MESSAGE: for cgcad@bart.inescn.pt\nOrganization: Brunel University, Uxbridge, UK\nX-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]\nLines: 2\n\nI cant get through to the author of rtrace. His site is inaccessible\ncan he upload the new version somewhere else please?\n',
'From: hall@vice.ico.tek.com (Hal F Lillywhite)\nSubject: Re: Mormon temples\nOrganization: Tektronix Inc., Beaverton, Or.\nLines: 24\n\nIn article <May.11.02.38.41.1993.28297@athos.rutgers.edu> mserv@mozart.cc.iup.edu (Mail Server) writes:\n\n>But I am interested in your claim that early Christian practices "parallel" \n>Mormon temple ceremonies. Could you give an example? Also, why do they only \n>parallel Mormon ceremonies? Why don\'t Mormon ceremonies restore the original \n>Christian practices? Wasn\'t that the whole point of Joseph Smith\'s stated \n>mission?\n\nIf you want parallels the best source is probably the book _Temple\nand Cosmos_ by Hugh Nibley. It is not light reading however.\n\nAs to why these early practices "only parallel" and do not exactly\nduplicate the modern LDS ceremony, there are a couple of reasons:\n\n1. Quite likely we do not have the exact original from ancient\ntimes. This stuff was not commonly known but bits and pieces\nundoubtedly spread. (Much as bits and pieces of the modern ceremony\nget known.) What we have in the 40 day literature, the Egyptian\nceremonies, and certain Native American ceremonies is almost\ncertainly not exactly what Jesus taught.\n\n2. Certain aspects of the ceremony are normally modified to fit the\nsituation, much as the modern ceremony has been modified to fit the\naudio-visual tools now available.\n',
'Subject: Re: Age of Reason Was: Who has read Rushdie\'s\nFrom: SSAUYET@eagle.wesleyan.edu (Scott D. Sauyet)\n <EDM.93Apr20145436@gocart.twisto.compaq.com> <11867@vice.ICO.TEK.COM> <sandvik-200493233434@sandvik-kent.apple.com>\nDistribution: world\nNntp-Posting-Host: wesleyan.edu\nX-News-Reader: VMS NEWS 1.20In-Reply-To: sandvik@newton.apple.com\'s message of Wed, 21 Apr 1993 06:38:30 GMTLines: 29\nLines: 29\n\nsandvik@newton.apple.com (Kent Sandvik) writes:\n\n> This is the story of Kent, the archetype Finn, that lives in the \n> Bay Area, and tried to purchase Thomas Paine\'s "Age of Reason". This\n> man was driving around, to Staceys, to Books Inc, to "Well, Cleanlighted\n> Place", to Daltons, to various other places.\n> \n> When he asked for this book, the well educated American book store\n> assistants in most placed asked him to check out the thriller section,\n> or then they said that his book has not been published yet, but they\n> should receive the book soon. In some places the assistants bluntly\n> said that they don\'t know of such an author, or that he is not \n> a well known living author, so they don\'t keep copies of his books.\n> \n> Such is the life and times of America, 200+ years after the revolution.\n\nOn a similar note, a good friend of mine worked as a clerk in a\nchain bookstore. Several of his peers were amazing, one woman in\nparticular:\n\nA customer asked her if they had _The Autobiography of Benjamin\nFranklin_. "Who\'s it by?" was her first question. Then, "Is he\nstill alive?" Then, "Is it fiction or non-fiction?" \n\nFinally my friend intervened, and showed the guy where it was.\n \nIt makes one wonder what the standards of employment are.\n\n -- Scott Sauyet ssauyet@eagle.wesleyan.edu\n',
'From: eileen@microware.com (Eileen Beck)\nSubject: cortisone shots\nNntp-Posting-Host: waldo\nOrganization: Microware Systems Corp., Des Moines, Iowa\nLines: 9\n\nI need some information on the implications of receiving\ncortisone shots for a seasonal allergic condition. \n\nI\'ve had the usual "skin prick" tests for the\ncommon allergies, but reacted to none of the substances.\nSo for the last two seasons I\'ve received cortisone shots\nbut the doctors seem reluctant to give more than two or\nthree shots. Why? What are the dangers?\n\n',
'From: jhpb@sarto.budd-lake.nj.us (Joseph H. Buehler)\nSubject: Re: Public/Private Revelation (formerly Re: Question about Virgin Mary\nOrganization: none\nLines: 44\n\n(Marty Helgesen) writes:\n\n When an alleged private revelation attracts sufficient attention,\n the Church may investigate it. If the investigation indicates a\n likelihood that the alleged private revelation is in fact from God,\n it will be approved. That means that it can be preached in the\n Church. However, it is still true that no one is required to\n believe that it came from God. A Catholic is free to deny the\n authenticity of even the most well attested and strongly approved\n private revelations, such as those at Fatima and Lourdes. (I\n suspect that few if any Catholics do reject Fatima and Lourdes, but\n if any do their rejection of them does not mean they are not\n orthodox Catholics in good standing.)\n\nIt may be a bit much to say that a Catholic is free to deny what\nhappened at Fatima. That\'s a bit strong, it is sort of like saying\nthat a Catholic is free to deny that Hong Kong exists. What a\nCatholic *is* free to do is to deny the truth of Fatima, without being\ncalled a heretic. You can be labeled other things for such an\noffense, but not a heretic.\n\nTheologians make a basic distinction as far as the degree of assent\none must give to events like Fatima and Lourdes. Things revealed by\nGod through Jesus Christ or His Apostles must be given the assent due\nto a revelation of God: total and unswerving. Fatima and Lourdes\ndemand our assent as much as any other well-attested event in human\nhistory. Perhaps a bit more, given the approval of the Church.\n\n"Approval" of an apparition by the Church principally means that\nwhatever happened was in harmony with the Catholic Faith.\n\nI personally think of private revelations as our Lord\'s way of telling\nus what to do at particular periods in history. He gave us all the\ndoctrines, etc., 2000 years ago, but we can always use some help in\nknowing how exactly to apply what He gave us.\n\nCatholic devotion to the Sacred Heart was a result of a series of\napparitions to St. Margaret Mary Alacoque, for example. The problem\nat the time was extreme moral rigorism that was turning our Lord into\nsomeone without a heart.\n\nThe Fatima apparitions were a warning of an impending crisis in the\nChurch (we are living it), and what to do to save the most souls\npossible in such a situation.\n',
"From: djohnson@cs.ucsd.edu (Darin Johnson)\nSubject: Re: Homosexuality issues in Christianity\nOrganization: =CSE Dept., U.C. San Diego\nLines: 15\n\nOk, what's more important to gay Christians? Sex, or Christianity?\nChristianity I would hope. Would they be willing to forgo sex\ncompletely, in order to avoid being a stumbling block to others,\nto avoid the chance that their interpretation might be wrong,\netc? If not, why not? Heterosexuals abstain all the time.\n(It would be nice if protestant churches had celibate orders\nto show the world that sex is not the important thing in life)\n\nTo tell the truth, gay churches remind me a lot of Henry the VIII\nstarting the Church of England in order to get a divorce (or is\nthis a myth). Note that I am not denying that gay Christians are\nChristian.\n-- \nDarin Johnson\ndjohnson@ucsd.edu -- Toy cows in Africa\n",
"From: wes@uf.msc.edu (Wes Barris)\nSubject: Re: HELP: Need 24 bits viewer\nKeywords: 24 bit\nReply-To: wes@msc.edu\nOrganization: AHPCRC, Minnesota Supercomputer Center\nLines: 22\n\nIn article <1993Apr27.152315.12305@nessie.mcc.ac.uk>, lilley@v5.cgu.mcc.ac.uk (Chris Lilley) writes:\n|> \n|> In article <5713@seti.inria.fr>, deniaud@cartoon.inria.fr (Gilles Deniaud) writes:\n|> \n|> >I'm looking for a program which is able to display 24 bits\n|> >images. We are using a Sun Sparc equipped with Parallax\n|> >graphics board running X11.\n|> \n|> Utah raster toolkit using getx11. Convert your sun raster files (presumably) to \n|> ppm with the pbm+ toolkit then convert ppm to utah rle format with ppmtorle which\n|> is provided in the toolkit.\n\nOr just use the URT tool: rastorle.\n\n|> \n|> I seem to remember that Xloadimage can do 24 bit servers too.\n\nYes, both it and the newer xli can.\n\n===============================================================================\nWes Barris PH: (612) 626-8090\nMinnesota Supercomputer Center, Inc. Email: wes@msc.edu\n",
'From: idqm400@indyvax.iupui.edu\nSubject: Knights of Columbus\nLines: 9\n\n\n\tThe initiations ceremony for Knights ous is almost\nas secretive as that for the Mafia.\n\nWhat are the phases of initation and why the secretiveness?\n\n\nDale idqm400@indyvax.iupui.edu\n \n',
'From: rmalayte@grumpy.helios.nd.edu (ryan malayter)\nSubject: GeoSphere Image\nOrganization: University of Notre Dame, Notre Dame\nLines: 29\n\nArticle 31 of alt.graphics:\nNewsgroups: alt.graphics\nPath: news.nd.edu!moliere!rmalayte\nFrom: rmalayte@moliere.helios.nd.edu (ryan malayter)\nSubject: GeoSphere images via ftp?\nMessage-ID: <1993Apr26.213648.26856@news.nd.edu>\nSender: news@news.nd.edu (USENET News System)\nOrganization: University of Notre Dame, Notre Dame\nDate: Mon, 26 Apr 1993 21:36:48 GMT\n\nDoes anyone know if a digitized version of the GeoSphere image is\navailable via ftp? For those of you who don\'t know, it is a composite\nphotograph of the entire earth, with cloudcover removed. I just think\nit\'s really cool. It was created with government funds and sattelites\nas a research project, so I would assume it\'s in the public domain.\n\nThanks for any info,\n\tRyan\n\n\n||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||\n||"College men get smashed and break something, || -- --- ||\n|| College women get smashed and get broken." || |\\ | ||\n|| -Robin Wilson ======================|| ------------\\ ||\n|| President, ||Ryan P. Malayter || | | \\ | | ||\n|| Chico State University ||332 Stanford Hall || ------------/ ||\n||==================================||Notre Dame, IN 46556|| | \\| ||\n|| N.D. Dept. of Physics/Comp. Sci. ||>>>malayter@nd.edu<<|| --- -- ||\n||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||\n',
'From: dhammers@pacific.? (David Hammerslag)\nSubject: Re: Mormon Temples\nOrganization: /u/dhammers/.organization\nLines: 21\n\nIn article <May.7.01.08.52.1993.14488@athos.rutgers.edu> brh54@cas.org (Brooks Haderlie) writes:\n\n searching out our deceased ancestors so that we can perform the\n ordinances -- such as baptism, confirmation, and marriage for time and\n eternity -- that are required for a person to obtain salvation through\n Christ and to live with Him through the eternities. These are people\n who may have not had the opportunity to know Christ in their lifetime,\n so we are making it possible for Christ\'s saving grace (I know there\n are thousands of interpretations of that phrase) to become fully\n effective for them if they allow it to do so on the other side.\n\n\nThis paragraph brought to mind a question. How do you (Mormons) reconcile\nthe idea of eternal marriage with Christ\'s statement that in the ressurection\npeople will neither marry nor be given in marriage (Luke, chapt. 20)?\n\n-------------------------------------------------------------------------------\nDavid Hammerslag (dhammers@urbana.mcd.mot.com)\n "...there ain\'t nobody so bad that the Lord can\'t save \'em ain\'t\n nobody so good they don\'t need God\'s love..." -- Mullins \n-------------------------------------------------------------------------------\n',
'From: ednclark@kraken.itc.gu.edu.au (Jeffrey Clark)\nSubject: Re: Societally acceptable behavior\nNntp-Posting-Host: kraken.itc.gu.edu.au\nOrganization: ITC, Griffith University, Brisbane, Australia\nLines: 49\n\ncobb@alexia.lis.uiuc.edu (Mike Cobb) writes:\n\n>Merely a question for the basis of morality\n\n>Moral/Ethical behavior = _Societally_ _acceptable_ _behavior_.\n\n>1)Who is society\n\nSociety is the collection of individuals which will fall under self-defined\nrules. In terms of UN decisions all the sets of peoples who are represented\nat the UN are considered part of that society. If we then look at US federal\nlaws provided by representatives of purely US citizens then the society for\nthat case would be the citizens of the US and so on.\n\n>2)How do "they" define what is acceptable?\n\n"Acceptable" are those behaviours which are either legislated for the\nsociety by representatives of that society or those behaviours which are\nnon-verbally and, in effect, non-consciously, such as picking your nose on\nthe Oprah Winfrey show, no-one does it, but there is no explicit law against\ndoing it. In many cases there are is no definition of whether or not a\nbehaviour is "acceptable", but one can deduce these behaviours by\nobservation.\n\n\n>3)How do we keep from a "whatever is legal is what is "moral" "position?\n\nIn an increasingly litigation mad society, this trap is becoming exceedingly\ndifficult to avoid. With the infusion and strengthening of ethnic cultures\nin American (and Australian, to bring in my local perspective) culture the\nboundaries of acceptable behaviour are ever widening and legislation may\neventually become the definition of moral behaviour. For instance, some\ncultures\' dominant religion call for live sacrifice of domesticated animals.\nMost fundamental christians would find this practice abhorrent. However, is\nit moral, according to the multicultural american society? This kind of\nproblem may only be definable by legislation. \n\nObviously within any society there will be differences in opinion in what is\nacceptable behaviour or not, and much of this will be due to different\nenvironmental circumstances rather than merely different opinions. \n\nOne thing is for sure, there is no universal moral code which will suit all\ncultures in all situations. There may, however, be some globally accepted\nmores which can be agreed upon and instantiated as a globally enforcable\nconcept. The majority of mores will not be common until all peoples upon\nthis earth are living in a similar environment (if that ever happens).\n\nJeff \'Nonickname\' Clark.\n\n',
'From: wdw@dragon.acadiau.ca (Bill Wilder)\nSubject: Seeking info on retinal detachment\nOrganization: Acadia University\nLines: 40\n\nI am quite near sighted.\n\nI\'ve recently received laser treatment for both eyes to seal\nholes in the retinas to help prevent retinal detachment. In my\nleft eye a small detachment had begun already and apparently the\nlaser was used to "weld" this back in place as well.\n\nMy right eye seems fine. In my left eye I was seeing occasional\nflashes of bright light prior to the treatment. Since the\ntreatment (two weeks) these flashes are now occuring more often\n- several each hour.\n\nThe opthamologist explained the flashes are caused because the\nvitreous body has attached to the retina and is pulling on it. He\nsays this is not treatable and he hopes it may go away on its own\naccord - if it tugs enough I may well face retinal detachment.\n\nI am seeking (via sci.med) additional info on retinal detachments.\nThe Dr. did not wish to spend much time with me in explanations\nso I appreciate any further details anyone can provide. Of most\ninterest to me:\n\nIf my retina does detach what should be my immediate course\nof action?\n\nIf conventional surgery is need to repair the detachment what is\nthe procedure like and what kind of vision can I expect\nafterwards.\n\nDo the symptoms (fairly frequent flashes) imply that detachment\nmaybe near at hand or is this not necessarily cause for alarm.\n\nMany thanks\n\nBill\n-- \nBill Wilder, Computer Systems Manager \nKentville Research Station\nAgriculture Canada\nKentville, Nova Scotia\n',
'From: rind@enterprise.bih.harvard.edu (David Rind)\nSubject: Re: Candida(yeast) Bloom, Fact or Fiction\nOrganization: Beth Israel Hospital, Harvard Medical School, Boston Mass., USA\nLines: 18\nNNTP-Posting-Host: enterprise.bih.harvard.edu\n\nIn article <1993Apr23.180430.1@vms.ocom.okstate.edu>\n banschbach@vms.ocom.okstate.edu writes:\n>I don\'t like the term "quack" being applied to a licensed physician David.\n>Questionable conduct is more appropriately called unethical(in my opinion).\n\n>\t3. Using laetril to treat cancer patients when such treatment has \n>\t been shown to be ineffective and dangerous(cyanide release) by \n>\t the NCI.\n\nHmm. This is certainly among the things I would refer to as quack\ntherapy and would tend to refer to any practitioner who prescribed\nlaetrile (whether licensed or not) as a quack. There are unethical\nbehaviors (such as ordering unneccessary tests to increase fees)\nwhich I would not lable as quackish, but prescribing known ineffective\ntherapies seems to me to be one of the hallmarks of a quack.\n-- \nDavid Rind\nrind@enterprise.bih.harvard.edu\n',
'From: vek@allegra.att.com (Van Kelly)\nSubject: Re: hate the sin...\nOrganization: AT&T Bell Laboratories, Murray Hill, NJ, USA\nLines: 54\n\nscott@prism.gatech.edu (Scott Holt) writes:\n\n "Hate the sin but love the sinner"...I\'ve heard that quite a bit recently, \n .... My question is whether that statement is consistent with Christianity.\n I would think not.\n\n Hate begets more hate, never love. ....\n\n In the summary of the law, Christ commands us to love God and to love our \n neighbors. He doesn\'t say anything about hate. In fact, if anything, he \n commands us to save our criticisms for ourselves. ....\n\n - Scott\n\nI too dislike the phrase "Hate the sin, love the sinner". Maybe the\ndefinite article is also part of the problem, since it seems to give\nus license to fixate on our brother\'s peculiar pecadillo which we have\nmanaged to escape by a common grace of heredity, economic situation, or\nculture. Our outrage at evil is too often just a cheap shot.\n\nThat said, I don\'t think Scott has adequately explored the flip side\nof this coin, namely the love of righteousness. In the Beatitudes,\nJesus blessed those who hungered and thirsted for righteousness. In\nthe New Testament, it is never enough just to behave well, one should\nalways actively desire and work for the cause of good. In that sense,\nit should be impossible to remain dispassionate about evil and its\nvictims, even when these are its accomplices as well.\n\nMaybe "mourn sin, love sinners" catches the idea slightly better than\n"hate", but only slightly, since grief usually implies a passive\npowerless position. A balanced Christian response needs grief, love,\nand carefully measured, constructive anger. Jesus has all three. The\nEuropean pietists during WWII whose response to Nazi atrocities was\ndevoid of anger do not fare well as role models, however much love or\ngrief they exemplified.\n\nMy sister is an actress in New York and a Christian. A few years\nback, Jack, her long-time professional friend and benefactor, died of\nAIDS, impoverished by medical bills, estranged from his family, and\nabandoned by most of his surviving friends. Only my sister and\nbrother-in-law were there with him at the very end. In her grief over\nJack\'s death, my sister found quite a few targets for anger: callous\nbureaucracies, the rigid self-protective moralism of Jack\'s family,\nthe inertia in Christians\' response to AIDS, and, yes, even Jack\'s own\nlapse in morality that eventually cost him his life. Jack himself\nshared that last anger. Brought up with strong Christian values, he\nwas contrite over his brief dalliance with promiscuous sex long before\nhis AIDS appeared. (I imply no moral judgement here about Jack\'s\ninnate sexual orientation, n.b.)\n\nMaybe the hardest job is making our anger constructive.\n\nVan Kelly\nvek@research.att.com\n',
"From: glskiles@carson.u.washington.edu (Gary Skiles)\nSubject: Re: Deadly NyQuil???\nOrganization: University of Washington, Seattle\nLines: 39\nNNTP-Posting-Host: carson.u.washington.edu\n\nIn article <C6BK0F.H7I@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU> res4w@galen.med.Virginia.EDU (Robert E. Schmieg) writes:\n\n[Partial deletion]\n\n>potentially fatal from hepatic necrosis. If I recall\n>correctly, the metabolism of acetaminophen at high doses\n>involves N-hydroxylation to N-acetyl-benzoquinoneimine, which\n>is a highly reactive intermediate, which then reacts with\n>sulfhydryl groups of proteins and glutathione. When hepatic\n>glutathione is used up, this intermediate then starts\n>attacking the hepatic proteins with resulting hepatic\n>necrosis. The insidious part of acetaminophen toxicity is the\n>delay (2-4 days) between ingestion and clinical signs of liver\n>damage. This is NOT a nice way to die.\n>\nNice explanation except that it isn't N-hydroxylation that causes the\nformation of the N-acetyl-p-benzoquinone imine (NAPQI), but rather a\ndirect two-electron oxidation. In addition, there is one school of thought\nthat contends that oxidative stress rather than arylation of protein\nis the more critical factor in the hapatotoxcity of acetaminophen. \n\nAs far as drug toxicities go, acetaminophen has and continues to be one\nof the most intensely scrutinized. An excellent recent review of the topic\ncan be found in: \n\n\tVermeulen, Bessems and Van de Straat. \t\n\tMolecular Aspects of Paracetamol-induced hepatotoxicity and its\n\tMechanism-Based Prevention. Drug Metabolism Reviews, 24(3) 367-\n\t407 (1992).\n\n\t(Acetaminophen is known as paracetamol in Europe)\n\nI couldn't agree with you more about what an awful way to die a toxic\ndose of acetaminophen causes. I've heard a number of descriptions by\nphysicians associated with poison control centers, and they describe a\nlingering very painful death. \n\n-Gary-\n\n",
'From: kempmp@phoenix.oulu.fi (Petri Pihko)\nSubject: Re: Consciousness part II - Kev Strikes Back!\nOrganization: University of Oulu, Finland\nX-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL9]\nLines: 207\n\nKevin Anthoney (kax@cs.nott.ac.uk) wrote:\n\n(about my reply)\n\n> Diplomatic :-)\n\nIt a society that is constantly on the verge of flaming, Usenet, diplomacy\nis the best way to ensure the voice of reason gets through, isn\'t it?\n\n> I realize I\'m fighting Occam\'s razor in this argument, so I\'ll try to\n> explain why I feel a mind is necessary. \n\nKevin, unfortunately you are now delving into field I know too little\nabout, algorithms. Your reasoning, as I see it, is very much along the\nlines of Roger Penrose, who claimed that mathematical \'insight\' cannot\nbe algorithmic in his book _The emperor\'s new mind: Concerning\ncomputers, minds, and the laws of physics_. However, Penrose\'s\nclaim that he _has_ mathematical insight, or your similar claim\nthat wavefunctions collapse only when we consciously take a look,\ncould be just illusions.\n\nWe are obviouslu taking very different viewpoints - I try to ponder\non the problem of consciousness from an evolutionary perspective,\nrealising that it might not be anything special, but certainly\nuseful. Thinking back of what I wrote, do you think worms have minds\nor not? They are able to experience pain, at least they behave \njust like that. Yet it is conceivable that we might some day\nin the future perform a "total synthesis of C. elegans" from\nthe elements. Would such a worm have a mind?\n\n> Firstly, I\'m not impressed with the ability of algorithms. They\'re\n> great at solving problems once the method has been worked out, but not\n> at working out the method itself.\n\nThis is true to some extent. However, I do not think that our brains\nwork like computers, at all. In fact, there is substantial evidence\n(Skarda, 1985; Skarda & Freeman 1987) that brains work more or less\nchaotically, generating enough randomness for mental states to evolve.\nOur brains work much like genetic algorithm generators, I suppose.\n\n> the trick still has to be there in some form to be discovered. Does\n> this mean that all the ideas we will ever have are already\n> pre-programmed into our brains? This is somewhat unlikely, given that\n> our brains ultimately are encoded in 46 chromosomes worth of genetic\n> material, much of which isn\'t used.\n\nIndeed, this is extremely unlikely, given the vast impact of nurture\non our mind and brain. I suggest, however, that before trying to\nunderstand our consciousness as a collection of algorithms. \n\nKevin, take a look at the references I mentioned, and think again.\nI still think the best experts on the nature of a conscious mind\nare neurologists, neuropsychologists and biologists (but do not \nflame me for my opinions), since they study beings that are\nconscious. \n\nThe reason I am repeating my advice is that this discussion cannot\nlead to anywhere if our backgrounds are too different.\n\nAnd please, do not bring QM into this discussion at all - not\nall physicists are happy with the claim that our consciousness\nplays some special role in physics. I would say it doesn\'t.\n\n> The other problem with algorithms is their instability. Not many\n> algorithms survive if you take out a large portion of their code, yet\n> people survive strokes without going completely haywire (there are\n> side-effects, but patients still seem remarkably stable.) Also,\n> neurons in perfectly healthy people are dying at an alarming rate -\n> can an algorithm survive if I randomly corrupt various bits of it\'s\n> code?\n\nAgain, _brains are not computers_. Don\'t forget this. This does not\nmean they need something else to work - they just work differently.\nTheir primary \'purpose\' is perception and guidance of action, \nself-awareness and high intelligence are later appearances.\n\n> The next problem is the sticky question of "What is colour?" (replace\n> \'colour\' with the sensation of your choice.) Presumably, the\n> materialist viewpoint is that it\'s the product of some kind of\n> chemical reaction. The usual products of such a reaction are energy +\n> different chemicals. Is colour a mixture of these?\n\nYou are still expecting that we could find the idea of \'green\' in\nour brains somewhere, perhaps in the form of some chemical. This is\nnot how I see it. The sensation \'green\' is a certain time-dependent\npattern in the area V4 of our visual cortex, and it is distributed\nwith the help of areas V1 and V2 to the rest of the brain. \n\nIndeed, a firing pattern. I have sometimes thought of our consciousness\nas a global free induction pattern of these local firing patterns,\nbut this is just idle speculation.\n\nScientific American\'s September 1992 issue was a special issue on\nmind and brain. Have you already read it from cover to cover? ;-)\nThere are two articles on visual perception, so you might be \ninterested.\n\nBut again, please note that subjective experiences cannot be \nobserved from a third-person perspective. If we see nothing but \nneuronal activity, we cannot go on to conclude that this is not the\nmind.\n\nKalat (1988) writes about numerous examples where electric stimulation\nof different areas of brain have led to various changes in the \npatients\' state of mind. For instance, a patient whose septal area\nwas stimulated (without his knowledge) by remote control during\na psychiatric interview was quickly cured of his depression, and\nstarted discussing a plan to seduce his girlfriend.\n\nStimulations in the temporal lobe have sometimes led to embarrassing\nsituations, when the patients have started flirting with the\ntherapist.\n\nIn conclusion, there is evidence that\n\n1) brains are essentially necessary for subjective experiences, \n brain damage is usually equivalent to some sort of mind damage\n\n2) conscious processes involve substantial brain activity in\n various areas of brain - when we think of colours, our\n visual cortex is activated etc.\n\n3) consciousness is an afterthought - we become conscious of our\n actions with a half a second delay, and our brains are ahead\n of our \'conscious will\' by at least 350 ms. \n\nThus, I think it is fruitful to turn the question "Why do \'I\' see\ncolours" around and ask "What is this \'I\' that seems to be \nobserving?", since it seems that our conscious mind is not\nthe king of our brains.\n\n> If this is so, a\n> computer won\'t see colour, because the chemistry is different. Does an\n> algorithm that sees colour have a selective advantage over an\n> equivalent that doesn\'t? It shouldn\'t, because the outputs of each\n> algorithm ought to be the same in equivalent circumstances. So why do\n> we see colour?\n\nThis depends on what is meant by \'seeing colours\'. Does a neural\nnetwork that is capable of recognising handwritten numbers from\n0 to 9 see the numbers, if it is capable of sorting them?\n\nIf you are asking, "why does an animal who is conscious of itself\nas an observer have an evolutionary advantage over an animal who\ndoesn\'t", I have a good answer - read my previous posting,\nwhere I wrote why a sense of identity helps social animals to swap\nroles and act more morally, so that they don\'t unconsciously\nkill each other with newly discovered weapons. (A bit extreme,\nbut this is the basic idea.)\n\nWhen early _Homo_ became more and more efficient in using tools, \na sense of identity and the concept of \'self\' had to evolve in\nline with this development. Indeed, respect for others and \nconscious altruistic behaviour might be evolutionary advantages\nfor social animals, such as early humans. \n\n> If I remember correctly, quantum mechanics consists of a wavefunction,\n> with two processes acting on it. The first process has been called\n> \'Unitary Evolution\' (or \'U\'), is governed by Schroedinger\'s equation\n> and is well known. The second process, called various things such as\n> \'collapse of the wavefunction\' or \'state vector reduction\' (or \'R\'),\n> and is more mysterious. It is usually said to occur when a\n> \'measurement\' takes place, although nobody seems to know precisely\n> when that occurs. When it does occur, the effect of R is to abruptly\n> change the wavefunction.\n\nIf minds are required for this, does this mean that until human\nminds came to the scene, wavefunctions never collapsed, but remained\nin the superpositions for aeons? My, how powerful we are.\n\nThis has been discussed before, and I think this topic is irrelevant,\nsince we do not agree that minds are necessary, and neither do\nphysicists. \n\n> Anyway, I\'m speculating that minds would be in part X. There seems to\n> be some link between consciousness and R, in that we never see linear\n> superpositions of anything, although there are alternative\n> explainations for this. I\'ve no idea how a brain is supposed to access\n> part X, but since this is only speculation, that won\'t matter too\n> much :-) My main point is that there might be a place for minds in\n> physics.\n\nI agree, but not in the sense you apparently mean above - physics\nneeds sharp minds to solve many real problems. ;-)\n\n> I\'ll go back to my nice padded cell now, if that\'s OK with you :-)\n\nIt\'s OK, if you don\'t forget to take with you the references I\nwrote about in my previous posting, plus the following:\n\nKalat, James W. (1988): Biological Psychology.\n3rd ed., Wadsworth Publishing Company, Belmont, CA 1988.\n\nSkarda, C. (1985): Explaining behavior: Bringing the brain back in.\nInquiry 29:187-202.\n\nSkarda, C. & Freeman, W. (1987): How brains make chaos in order to\nmake sense of the world. \nBehavioral and Brain Sciences 10:161-173.\n\nPetri\n\n--\n ___. .\'*\'\'.* Petri Pihko kem-pmp@ Mathematics is the Truth.\n!___.\'* \'.\'*\' \' . Pihatie 15 C finou.oulu.fi Physics is the Rule of\n \' *\' .* \'* SF-90650 OULU kempmp@ the Game.\n *\' * .* FINLAND phoenix.oulu.fi -> Chemistry is The Game.\n',
'From: banschbach@vms.ocom.okstate.edu\nSubject: RE: Robert\'s Biological Alchemy\nLines: 106\nNntp-Posting-Host: vms.ocom.okstate.edu\nOrganization: OSU College of Osteopathic Medicine\n\nRobert,\n\nI\'m *so* glad that you posted your Biological Alchemy discussion. I\'ve \nbeen compared to the famous Robert McElwaine by some readers of Sci. Med.\nI didn\'t know how to respond since I had not seen one of your posts(just \nlike I haven\'t read "The Yeast Connection").\n\nLet me just start by stating that the authors of the "Cold Fusion" papers of \nrecent years are now in scientific exile(I believe that one has actually \nleft the country). Scientific fraud is rare. I\'m still not sure that if a \nreview of the research notes of the "cold fusion scientists" actually \nproved fraud or just very shoddy experimentation.\n\nYour sources do not seem to be research articles. They are more like lay \ntexts designed to pique human interest in a subject area(just like the food \ncombining and life extension texts). Robert, I try to keep an open mind.\nBut some things I just can\'t buy(one is taking SOD orally to prevent \noxidative damage in the body).\n\nYour experiment, if conducted by readers of this news group, would prove \nthat you are right(more ash after seed sprouting than before). Unless you \nuse a muffle furnance and obtain a very high temperature(above 600 degrees \nI believe), you will get organic residue in the ash. Even the residue in \ncommercial incinerators contains organic residue. I remember doing this \nkind of experiment in my organic chemistry couurse in College but I \ncouldn\'t find a temperature for mineral ash formation so I\'m really \nguessing at 600 degrees F, it may actually be much higher. The point is \nthat no one in their home could ever get a high enough temperature to \nproduce *only* a mineral ash. They also could not measure the minerals so \nthey could only weigh the ash and find out that you appear to be correct. \n\nChemical reactions abound in our body, in our atmosphere, in our water and \nin our soil. Are these fusion reactions? Yes many of them do involve \nfusing oxygen, nitrogen and sulfur to both organics and inorganics. Do we \nreally have the transformation of silicone to calcium if carbon is fused with \nsilicon? Not in my book Robert.\n\nSilicon is the most abundant mineral on our planet. I\'ve seen speculation \nthat man could have evolved to be a silicon based rather than a carbon \nbased life-form. I like reading science fiction, as many people do. But I \nknow enough about biochemistry(and nutrition) to be able(in most cases) to \nseparate the fiction from the fact.\n\nSilicon may be one of the trace elements that turns out to be essential in \nhumans. We have several grams of the stuff in our body. What\'s it doing \nthere? Only the Lord knows right now. But I will tell you what I do know \nabout silicon and why, as you state, it helps bone healing(and it is not \nbecause silicon is transformed into calcium).\n\nAlmost all of the silicon in the human body is found in the connective \ntissue(collagen and elastin). There have been studies published which show \nthat the very high silicon content in elastin may be an important protective \nfactor against atherosclerosis(the higher the silicon content in elastin, \nthe more resistant the elastin is to a an age-related loss of elasticity \nwhich may play a role in the increase in blood pressure that is often seen as \npart of the ageing process in humans).\n\nFor bone fracture healing, the first step is a collagen matrix into which \ncalcium and phosphate are pumped by osteoblasts. A high level of silicon \nin the diet seems to speed up this matrix formation. This first step in the \nbone healing process seems to be the hardest for some people to get going.\nElectriacl currents have been used in an attempt to get the matrix forming \ncells oriented in the right direction so that the matrix can be formed in \nthe gap(or gaps) between the ends of the broken bone. A vitamin C deficiency\n(by slowing collagen formation as well as causing the prodcution of \ndefective collagen) does slow down both bone and wound healing. Zinc is also \nanother big player in bone and wound healing. And so is silicon(in an \nundetermined role that most likely involes matrix formation and not \ntransformation of silicon to calcium). For you to take this bone healing \nobservation and use it as proof that silicon is transformed into \ncalcium is an interesting little trick.\n\nBut Robert, I have the same problem myself when I read the lay press(and \nyes even some scientific papers). Is the explanation reasonable? Without \na very good science knowledge base, you and most readers of this news group \nare flying blind(you have to take it on faith because you don\'t know any \nbetter).\n\nIf the explanation seems to make sense to me based on my knowledge base, \nI\'m inclined to consider it(this usually means trying to find other sources \nthat come to the same conclusion). If the idea(like a candida bloom) seems \nto make sense to me, I tend to pursue it as long as any advice that I\'m \ngoing to give isn\'t going to really mess somebody up. If this makes us \nkindred souls Robert, then I guess I\'ll have to live with that label.\n\nFor the physicians who have decided to read my response to Robert\'s \ninteresting post, I hope that you saw the segment on the pediatric \nneurosurgeon last night on U.S. TV. I can\'t remember the network or his \nname(like many nights, I was on my computer and my wife was watching TV in \nour Den where I have my computer setup). This neurosurgeon takes kids with \nbrain tumors that everyone else has given up on and he uses"unconventional"\ntreatments(his own words). He says that he has a 70% success rate. The one \ncase that I heard him discussing would normally use radiation(conventional \ntreatment). He was going to go in and cut. You guys complain about the \ncost of the anti-fungals. What do you think the cost difference between \nradiation treatment and surgery is guys? \n\nI\'m going to ask you guys one more time, why blast a physician who takes the \nchronic sinus sufferer(like Jon) and the chronic GI sufferer(like Elaine)\nand tries to help them using unconventional treatments? Treatments which \ndo not result in death(like those that the neurosurgeon uses?). Is it \nbecause candida blooms are not life-threatening while brain tumors are?\nHow about quality of life guys? May the candida demon never cross your \nsinus cavity or gut(if it does, you may feel differently about the issue).\n\nMarty B.\n',
'From: rtaraz@bigwpi.WPI.EDU (Ramin Taraz)\nSubject: Need gif/iff file format\nOrganization: Worcester Polytechnic Institute\nLines: 8\nDistribution: world\nNNTP-Posting-Host: bigwpi.wpi.edu\n\n\nCould somebody please _email_ me some info on either what gif or iff\nfile formats are, or where I can get such info?\n\n\nthanx\n\nrtaraz@wpi.wpi.edu\n',
'From: revdak@netcom.com (D. Andrew Kille)\nSubject: Re: SOC.RELIGION.CHRISTIAN\nOrganization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)\nLines: 18\n\nAnni Dozier (dozier@utkux1.utk.edu) wrote:\n: After reading the posts on this newsgroup for the pasts 4 months, it \n: has become apparent to me that this group is primarily active with \n: Liberals, Catholics, New Agers\', and Athiests. Someone might think \n: to change the name to: soc.religion.any - or - perhaps even\n: soc.religion.new. It might seem to be more appropriate.\n: Heck, don\'t flame me, I\'m Catholic, gay, and I voted \n: for Bill Clinton. I\'m on your side! \n\nSince when did conservative, protestant, old-time religion believers get\nan exclusive francise to christianity? Christianity is, and always has\nbeen, a diverse and contentious tradition, and this group reflects that\ndiversity. I, fo one, am not ready to concede to _any_ group- be they\n"liberal" or "conservative", catholic, protestant, or orthodox, charismatic\nor not- the right to claim that they have _the truth_, and everyone else\nis not "christian."\n\nrevdak@netcom.com\n',
'From: marshall@csugrad.cs.vt.edu (Kevin Marshall)\nSubject: Re: Faith and Dogma\nOrganization: Virginia Tech Computer Science Dept, Blacksburg, VA\nLines: 96\nNNTP-Posting-Host: csugrad.cs.vt.edu\n\n\ntgk@cs.toronto.edu (Todd Kelley) writes:\n>In light of what happened in Waco, I need to get something of my\n>chest.\n>\n>Faith and dogma are dangerous. \n>\n>Religion inherently encourages the implementation of faith and dogma, and\n>for that reason, I scorn religion.\n\nI don\'t necessarily disagree with your assertion, but I disagree with\nyour reasoning. (Faith = Bad. Dogma = Bad. Religion -> (Faith ^ Dogma).\nReligion -> (Bad ^ Bad). Religion -> Bad.) Unfortunately, you never \nstate why faith and dogma are dangerous. \n\nIf you believe faith and dogma are dangerous because of what happened in\nWaco, you are missing the point. \n\nThe Branch Davidians made the mistake of confusing the message with the\nmessenger. They believed Koresh was a prophet, and therefore believed\neverything he said. The problem wasn\'t the religion, it was the \nfollowers. They didn\'t die because of faith and dogma, they died because\nof their zealotry (or, in the case of the children, the zealotry of their\nparents).\n\n>I have expressed this notion in the past. Some Christians debated\n>with me whether Christianity leaves any room for reasoning. I claimed\n>rationality is quelled out of Christianity by faith and dogma.\n\nSo Christians are totally irrational? Irrational with respect to their\nreligion only? What are you saying? One\'s belief in a Christian God does\nnot make one totally irrational. I think I know what you were getting at,\nbut I\'d rather hear you expand on the subject.\n\n\n>A philosopher cannot be a Christian because a philosopher can change his mind,\n>whereas a Christian cannot, due to the nature of faith and dogma present\n>in any religion.\n\nAgain, this statement is too general. A Christian is perfectly capable of\nbeing a philosopher, and absolutely capable of changing his/her mind. Faith in\nGod is a belief, and all beliefs may change. Would you assert that atheists\nwould make poor philosophers because they are predisposed to not believe in a\nGod which, of course, may show unfair bias when studying, say, religion?\n\n\n\n\n>I claimed that a ``Christian philosopher\'\' is not a Christian,\n>but is a person whose beliefs at the moment correspond with those\n>of Christianity. Consider that a person visiting or guarding a prison\n>is not a prisoner, unless you define a prisoner simply to be someone\n>in a prison.\n>Can we define a prisoner to be someone who at the moment is in a prison?\n>Can we define a Christian to be someone who at the moment has Christian\n>beliefs? No, because if a person is free to go, he is not a prisoner.\n>Similarly, if a person is not constrained by faith and dogma, he is not\n>a Christian.\n\nSo, Christianity is a prison, eh? Ever heard of parole? You have read far\ntoo much into this subject. A Christian is one who follows the religion\nbased on the teachings of a man named Jesus Christ. Nowhere does this\ndefinition imply that one cannot change one\'s mind. In prison, however,\nyou can\'t just decide to leave. One is voluntary, the other is not. The\ntwo are not compatible.\n\n\n>Religion is like the gun that doesn\'t kill anybody. Religion encourages\n>faith and dogma and although it doesn\'t directly condemn people,\n>it encourages the use of ``just because\'\' thinking. It is\n>``just because\'\' thinking that kills people.\n\nI prefer to think of religion as a water pistol filled with urine. 8^)\nSeriously, though, some (but certainly not all) religions do condemn\ngroups of people. The common target is the "infidel," a curious being\nwho is alternately an atheist, a non-<insert specific religious\naffiliation here>, a person of a different race, or an Egyptian. 8^)\n\nPlease explain how "just because" thinking kills people. (And please\nstate more in your answer than "Waco.")\n\n\n>Of course, not all humans are capable of thought, and we\'d still\n>have genocide and maybe even some mass suicide...but not as much.\n>I\'m willing to bet on that.\n\nI\'ll see your conscientious peacenik and raise you a religious \nzealot with bad acne. 8^) By the way, I wasn\'t aware mass suicide\nwas a problem. Waco and Jonestown were isolated incidents. \nMass suicides are far from common.\n\n-- \n--- __ _______ ---\n||| Kevin Marshall \\ \\/ /_ _/ Computer Science Department |||\n||| Virginia Tech \\ / / / marshall@csugrad.cs.vt.edu |||\n--- Blacksburg, Virginia \\/ /_/ (703) 232-6529 ---\n',
'From: mls@panix.com (Michael Siemon)\nSubject: Re: ARSENOKOITAI: NT Meaning of\nOrganization: Panix Public Access Internet & Unix, NYC\nLines: 209\n\nMeta-exegesis: Conviction of Sin, part II\n\nLet me return to the question, stipulating that Paul meant his use of\n_arseonkoitai_ to refer more or less exactly to the Levitical prohibition\nof male-male sex. In order to bring out the problems most clearly, I\'ll\nalso stipulate (what I think is far less plausible) that Paul coined the\nterm for this usage. The question I want to turn to is what that would\nmean for Paul\'s readers and for later Christians. This should be shorter\nthan my last note, as we will see that this question rapidly confronts us\nwith some of the major divisions within Christ\'s body, and I am not trying\nto open the gates for flames across any of the terrible chasms that\nseparate any of us from our fellow Christians. My own biases (loosely\ncharacterizable as "liberal") will be evident, but I am not grinding an\naxe here, so much as trying to get all parties to see that it may be HARD\nto reach "closure" when the issues involved strike at the heart of what we\neach, in our own different ways, see as crucial to the Gospel of Christ.\n\nSo; stipulating Paul\'s intent, the immediate question is: HOW CAN HIS\nREADERS UNDERSTAND this intent? And following on that question, there is\na second one: WHAT IS OUR PROPER ACTION if we *do* manage to understand him?\n\nSince Paul gives not a single clue about his meaning in the text of 1st\nCorinthians, there are two "positive" answers and one "negative" to this\nquestion:\n\n+\ta. Paul (or Apollos, or someone) in the apostolic community has\n\t conveyed to the Corinthians the then-traditional Jewish condem-\n\t nation of homosexual behavior, and Paul expects them to be\n\t sufficiently well-tutored by this tradition that he needs no\n\t futher explanation. [I should note that there is no evidence\n\t in the letter, or in 2 Corinthians for such a supposition :-)]\n\n+\tb. The Spirit will teach us what Paul means (or, if not Paul,\n\t what God means "behind" Paul\'s inspired word-choice.)\n\n-\tc. We *don\'t* know, and cannot guess to within any better pre-\n\t cision here than, for comparison, in the parallel use by Paul,\n\t in the same passage of the word _pleonektai_ ("those who have\n\t more" -- if you think that _areseonkoitai_ is "obvious" from\n\t its roots, try cutting your teeth on *this* word! The NEB\n\t translates it as "grabbers") or even _methusoi_ ("drunkards"\n\t -- at least this has the advantage of being a common insult,\n\t so that at least there is *some* hint as to its meaning!)\n\nThe three positions more or less -- if I can be allowed some exaggeration\nfor the sake of argument -- define a classical Catholic attitude towards\ntradition, one form of Protestant _sola scriptura_, and a liberal/critical\ndemand for evidence. All three positions have strengths and weaknesses.\n\n_ad_ a:\tIt is unquestionable that the gospel was preached in and by the\n\tcommunity of Christ\'s disciples and their successors, and that\n\tour NT scripture itself emerges from this communal tradition.\n\tBut it\'s also the case that we know little or nothing about this\n\ttradition until almost a century after Paul, which is to say that\n\twe have access to the tradition only after several generations of\n\tpossibly confused transmission. The scripture is itself our only\n\tdocumentation of the tradition in the critical era.\n\n_ad_ b:\tIf we are NOT born of water and Spirit [to revert to John in an\n\tattempt to explain Paul :-)], then we have no more hope of under-\n\tstanding the gospel than Nicodemus had; neither the traditions of\n\tmen nor the vain elevation of our own reason can prevent the Spirit\n\tfrom blowing where it will -- the Paraclete is a kamikaze. But\n\tthe downside of Protestant belief in the efficacy of the Spirit\n\tas our guide in scripture is that the wing of Protestantism that\n\ttakes this most seriously is also the most fragmented over divergent\n\tunderstanding supposedly derived from the "clear" Word of God.\n\n\t\t[Note: classical Lutheran, Calvinist and Anglican thought\n\t\tconstrains scripture to be read *within* tradition, even\n\t\twhile reserving judgment against tradition out of scripture;\n\t\tthe more bizarre forms of "I will read Scripture my way"\n\t\tare primarily a fringe aspect of "cultic" Protestantism.]\n\n\tThe main problem with this approach is that there is apparently no\n\tmeans for ONE person to convey to another what that one may feel\n\t*is* teaching received from the Spirit; and history shows incredible\n\tconflict between Christians on this point, each in his own mind\n\t"convinced" that he is led by the Spirit. No one can seriously\n\turge point b without SOME sense of its potential for setting Christian\n\tagainst Christian. To what purpose?\n\n_ad_ c:\tThe critical approach has the distinct advantage that when it can\n\treach a conclusion, it can lay out the data in a way which is open\n\tto all. The weakness is an obvious corollary: this is not usually\n\tpossible. :-)\n\n\t[If I may say a word here, out of my own already acknowledged bias;\n\tone complaint against critical methodology is that it "dissolves"\n\tfaith -- but surely a "faith" that cannot honestly face the evalu-\n\tation of evidence has problems which mere theology is helpless to\n\taddress.]\n\nAnyway, there is a serious and unfortunate possibility of schism between\n"liberal" and "conservative" positions, mostly on the basis of extreme\nzealots of positions b and c. A Catholic sense of authority and tradition\ntends to constrain arguments of b contra c to secondary position, so that\ndespite horrendous strains Rome is NOT as likely to find these issues as\nultimately divisive as the Protestant world will. And Anglicans will (I\npredict) muddle through on the _via media_, attempting to give each position\nits due, but no more than its due. \n\nSecond question. Suppose tradition tells us, and lots of "spiritual"\nChristians tell us, and critical thought at least admits as possible,\nthat Paul is refering to a flat, universal Levitical prohibition against\nmale-male sex. What then? Again, we can abdicate our personal responsi-\nbility to tradition, and let it dictate the answer. But it\'s precisely\nwhere inherited traditions are NOT questioned that they\'re most dangerous.\n\nWe have EXAMPLES of Christ questioning the Pharisees and THEIR use of\ntradition (despite his urging, in Matthew 23:2 that we are to heed them).\nWe have EXAMPLES of Peter, and more radically still Paul, jettisoning the\ntraditions that THEY were led by the Spirit to call into question. Jesus\nand Peter and Paul do not so much "throw out" tradition as subject it to\nradical criticism, on a couple of very basic grounds:\n\n "the weightier demands of the law: justice and mercy and good faith"\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t(Matthew 23:23)\nand "On these two commandments [love God & neighbor] hand the whole Law,\n and the Prophets, also."\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t(Matthew 22:40)\n\nIf there is a fundamental (because derived from Christ) validity in the\nchallenge to *some* traditions, a validity that led the first generation\nto go so far as to waive application of the Torah to gentile converts\n(vastly beyond anything that is directly deducible from Jesus\' reported\nwords and deeds), it signifies to me a certain failure of the imagination\nto *postulate* that *only* the traditions that we have specific challenges\nagainst are in fact open to challenge.\n\nAll traditions passed *through* men are traditions *of* men. That God may\nlead us even so, that these traditions are a source of our spiritual\ninstruction I will freely grant. But tradition is inherently human, and\ninherently corruptible (and given the Fall, corrupt). Nothing in it is\nimmune to challenge, when the Spirit shows us a failure in justice, mercy\nand good faith. Nothing may ultimately stand unless it DOES follow from\nlove of God and love of neighbor.\n\nI am perfectly willing to grant that I could be blind to my own sin. That\nthe Spirit may have taught another what She refuses to teach me (or I am\ntoo dense to learn). That tradition *might* have value here. But what I\n*know* of tradition is that on one occasion, some superstitious Christians\nappealed to Justinian after an earthquake in Asia Minor, and scapegoated\n"sodomites" as the "cause" of the earthquake, so that legislation was\npassed making homosexual behavior a capital offense. If that is in\naccord with the gospel of Christ, then I am no Christian. That is human\ntradition at its most hateful and vicious. And I see nothing all that much\ndifferent in all the unbidden eruptions onto USENET of people who are quick\nto condemn but slow to understand. If that is the leading of the Spirit,\nthen I want no part of it. But what I have found in obedience to the Lord\nis that I am, myself, TOTALLY dependent on the witness of other Christians,\nfor the truth that lives in the Body of Christ.\n\nAnd I say to all who doubt that gay Christianity is from God what Gamaliel\nsaid to doubting Pharisees who would have suppressed the earliest Church:\n\n\t"be careful how you deal with these people... If this enterprise,\n\tthis movement of theirs, is of human origin it will break up of\n\tits own accord; but if it does in fact come from God you will not\n\tonly be unable to destroy them, but you might find yourselves\n\tfighting against God."\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t[Acts 5:36...39] \n\nAll I ask is that you listen to your traditions, and read your scriptures\nwith a mind and soul OPEN to the Spirit, and to the past history of our\nfirst Christian witnesses\' willingness to challenge tradition and OTHER\nreadings of scripture -- though read with all the authority of scribes and\nrabbis -- and a submission to the declaration that all must depend on the\nlove of God and neighbor. Then, study the evidence; learn the history of\nChristians oppressing Christians out of their traditions and eagerness to\njudge where Jesus and Paul tell us NOT to judge. And let the witness of\nthe Spirit in the lives of your fellow Christians -- including those who\nare NOT of your preference in theology -- guide you towards God\'s truth.\n-- \nMichael L. Siemon\t\tI say "You are gods, sons of the\nmls@panix.com\t\t\tMost High, all of you; nevertheless\n - or -\t\t\tyou shall die like men, and fall\nmls@ulysses.att..com\t\tlike any prince." Psalm 82:6-7\n\n[There\'s a certain ambiguity in your discussion of position (a), as to\nwhether you\'re speaking of tradition in Paul\'s time or ours. I think\nthere are two ways to use tradition. One is to say that when Paul and\nhis readers share a tradition, it makes sense to interpret his words\nin the context of that shared tradition. That\'s what makes me think\nthat these arguments over words turn out to be silly. We know that\nPaul came out of a background that was rather Puritanical on sex.\nEverything else he says on sex is consistent with that background.\nThe tone of his remarks on homosexuality in Rom 1 is consistent with\nthat background. Even if the words in the sin lists aren\'t the most\ngeneral terms for homosexual activity (and it seems to me that there\'s\nsome evidence that they are not), they are just one more piece of\nevidence for something we would probably be willing to believe with no\nevidence at all -- that Paul shares the common Jewish rejection of\nhomosexuality.\n\nBut when you identify (a) with the Catholic position, that\'s rather a\nhorse of a different color. The Catholic position involves a\ncontinuing church tradition. Arguments specific to that tradition\nmight be (1) we can get guidance on how to interpret Paul\'s original\nmeaning from tradition, e.g. the way the Church Fathers interpreted\nhim, and (2) we gain confidence that his prohibitions still apply in\nour time because of the universal judgement of the church between his\ntime and ours. I think this is a somewhat different use of tradition.\nA radical Protestant might be willing to use known 1st Cent.\ntradition to illuminate Paul\'s original meaning, but not use the\nCatholic position to answer the question of what our own attitude to\nhomosexuality should be.\n\n--clh]\n',
"From: mcovingt@aisun3.ai.uga.edu (Michael Covington)\nSubject: Re: Antihistamine for sleep aid\nNntp-Posting-Host: aisun3.ai.uga.edu\nOrganization: AI Programs, University of Georgia, Athens\nLines: 13\n\nI'm interested in this from the other angle: what antihistamine can I\ntake at bedtime for relief of allergies, with the assurance that its\nsedative effect will have completely worn off by the next morning, but\npreferably with the anti-allergy effect lasting longer?\n\nI'm thinking mainly of OTC products. Which has the least duration of\nsedative action: Benadryl, Chlor-Trimeton, or what?\nNote that I'm asking about duration, not intensity.\n-- \n:- Michael A. Covington, Associate Research Scientist : *****\n:- Artificial Intelligence Programs mcovingt@ai.uga.edu : *********\n:- The University of Georgia phone 706 542-0358 : * * *\n:- Athens, Georgia 30602-7415 U.S.A. amateur radio N4TMI : ** *** ** <><\n",
'From: kxgst1+@pitt.edu (Kenneth Gilbert)\nSubject: Re: Pregnency without sex?\nOrganization: University of Pittsburgh\nLines: 16\n\nIn article <1993Apr27.182155.23426@oswego.Oswego.EDU> matthews@oswego.Oswego.EDU (Harry Matthews) writes:\n:All right, listen up.... What are the possibilities of transmission through\n:swimming pool water? Especially if the chlorination isn\'t up to par?\n:\n:I\'ve heard of community swimming pools refered to as PUBLIC URINALS so what\n:else is going on?\n\nNo dice. As soon as the sperm cells hit the water they would virtually\nexplode. The inside of the cell is hypertonic, and since the membrane is\nsemipermeable water would rush in and cause the cell to burst.\n\n-- \n=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-|-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=\n= Kenneth Gilbert __|__ University of Pittsburgh =\n= General Internal Medicine | "...dammit, not a programmer!" =\n=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-|-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=\n',
'From: db7n+@andrew.cmu.edu (D. Andrew Byler)\nSubject: Re: Deuterocanonicals, esp. Sirach\nOrganization: Freshman, Civil Engineering, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA\nLines: 78\n\nBarney Resson writes:\n\n>On these counts, the apocrapha falls short of the glory of God.\n>To quote Unger\'s Bible Dictionary on the Apocrapha:\n>1. They abound in historical and geographical inaccuracies and\n>anachronisms.\n\nSo do other parts of the Bible when taken literally - i.e. the Psalms\nsaying the Earth does not move, or the implication the Earth is flat\nwith four corners, etc. The Bible was written to teach salvation, not\nhistory or science.\n\n>2. They teach doctrines which are false and foster practices\n>which are at variance with sacred Scripture.\n\nWhat ones? Paryers for the dead or the intercession of saints? (Which\nare taught in 2 Maccabees, Sirach, and Tobit)\n\n>3. They resort to literary types and display an artificiality of\n>subject matter and styling out of keeping with sacred Scripture.\n\nBy your own subjective judgement. This falling short is your judgement,\nand you are not infallible - rather the Church of Jesus Christ is (see 1\nTimothy 3.15).\n\n>4. They lack the distinctive elements which give genuine\n>Scripture their divine character, such as prophetic power and\n>poetic and religious feeling.\n\nMore subjective feelings. This is not a proof of anything more than\none persons feelings.\n\n>But the problem with this argument lies in the assumption that\n>the Hebrew canon included the Apocrapha in the first place, and\n>it wasn\'t until the sixteenth century that Luther and co. threw\n>them out. The Jewish council you mentioned previously didn\'t\n>accept them, so the reformation protestants had good historical\n>precedence for their actions. Jerome only translated the\n>apocrapha under protest, and it was literally \'over his dead\n>body\' that it was included in the catholic canon.\n\nAs I have written time and again, the Hebrew canon was fixed in Jamnia,\nPalestine, in 90 AD. 60 years after the foundation of the one, holy,\ncatholic, and apostolic Church. Furthermore, the opinons of Jerome do\nnot count. He was neither the Church, or the Pope, or an ecumenical\ncouncil, or a council in general, or an insturment of the Magisterium of\nthe Church. He was a private individual, learned admittedly, but\nsubject to erro of opinion. And in exlcuding the deuterocanon, he\nerred, as Pope Damsus, and the Council of Carthage, and the tradition of\nthe Fathers, clearly shows, as I pointed out in my previous post.\n\n>How do you then view the words: "I warn everyone who hears the\n>words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds anything to\n>them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book.\n>And if anyone takes away from this book the prophecy, God will\n>take away from him his share in the tree of life and in the\n>holy city" (Rev 22.18-9)\n\nI suggest you take heed of the last part of the statement, if you want\nto take it in the sense you are taking it, that taking away from the\nbook will cause you to lose heaven.\n\n>It is also noteworthy to consider Jesus\' attitude. He had no\n>argument with the pharisees over any of the OT canon (John\n>10.31-6), and explained to his followers on the road to Emmaus \n>that in the law, prophets and psalms which referred to him - the \n>OT division of Scripture (Luke 24.44), as well as in Luke 11.51\n>taking Genesis to Chronicles (the jewish order - we would say\n>Genesis to Malachi) as Scripture.\n\nThe order of the Canon is unimportant, it is the content that matters. \nNone of Jesus\' statments exlcude the deuterocanon, which were\ninterspersed throughout the canon. And remeber, there are some\ncompletely undisputed books, Ezra, Nehemiah, Esther, Ecclesiatses, Song\nof Songs, Job, etc. that are not quoted in the New Testament, which is\nnot taken as prejudicial to their being inspired.\n\nAndy Byler\n',
"From: praetzel@sunee.uwaterloo.ca (Eric Praetzel)\nSubject: Re: Amusing atheists and agnostics\nOrganization: University of Waterloo\nLines: 25\n\nIn article <timmbake.735196560@mcl> timmbake@mcl.ucsb.edu (Bake Timmons) writes:\n>\n>Nah. I will encourage people to learn about atheism to see how little atheists\n>have up their sleeves. Whatever I might have suspected is actually quite\n\nRiddle me this. If a god(s) exist why on earth should we grovel? Why on earth\nshould we give a damm at all? What evidence do you have that if such a\ncreature(s) exist it deserves anything beyond mild admiration or sheer\nhatred for what it/they have done in the past (whichever god(s) you care to\npick). That is assuming any records of their actions are correct.\n\nReligon offers a bliss bubble of self contained reality which is seperate\nfrom the physical world. Any belief system can leave you in such a state\nand so can drugs. God(s) are not a requirement. Only if you remove such\nuseless tappestry can you build a set of morals to build a society upon.\nIt is that or keep on exterminating those who don't believe (or converting\nthem).\n - Eric\n\nNEW VIRUSES:\n\nRIGHT TO LIFE VIRUS: Won't allow you to delete a file, regardless of\nhow old it is. If you attempt to erase a file, it requires you to first\nsee a counselor about possible alternatives.\n\n",
'From: robert@slipknot.rain.com (Robert Reed)\nSubject: Re: ACM SIGGRAPH (and ACM in general)\nReply-To: Robert Reed <robert@slipknot.rain.com>\nOrganization: Home Animation Ltd.\nLines: 50\n\nIn article <1993Apr29.023508.11556@koko.csustan.edu> rsc@altair.csustan.edu (Steve Cunningham) writes:\n|\n|And no, SIGGRAPH 93 has not skipped town -- we\'re preparing the best\n|SIGGRAPH conference yet!\n\nSpeaking of SIGGRAPH, I just went through the ordeal of my annual registration\nfor SIGGRAPH and re-upping of membership in the ACM last night, and was I ever\ngrossed out! The new prices for membership are almost highway robbery!\n\nFor example:\n\n\tSIGGRAPH basic fee went from $26 last year to $59 this year for the same\n\tthing, a 127% increase. Those facile enough to arrange a trip to the\n\tannual conference could reduce this to $27 by selecting SIGGRAPH Lite,\n\twhich means SIGGRAPH is charging an additional $32 (or so) for the\n\tproceedings and the art show catalog, essentially.\n\n\tTOPLAS went up 40% in cost, way outstripping the current inflation rate.\n\n\tBasic SIGCHI fees remainded the same, but whereas before SIGCHI\n\tmembership included UIST and Human Factors conferences proceedings,\n\tthese are now an extra cost option. Bundling that back into the basic\n\trate, equivalent services have gone up 100% in cost.\n\n\tSIGOIS membership cost has up 33%, but they\'ve also split out the\n\tComputer Supported Cooperative Work conference proceedings that used to\n\tbe included with membership. Adding that cost back in means this SIG\n\talso has doubled its membership fee.\n\nWhat really galls me is that the ACM sent out brochures a couple months ago\ntouting their new approach to providing member services, and tried to make it\nsound like they were offering NEW services. But with the exception of a couple,\nlike SIGGRAPH, all the "plus" services appear to be just splitting the costs\ninto smaller piles so that they don\'t look so big. But their recommended\nchanges to my membership would have me paying 90% more than last year for a 31%\nincrease in services (measured by cost, not by value), and, curiously, a 31%\ninflation rate on the publications I got last year.\n\nIs anyone out there as galled by this extortion as I am?\n________________________________________________________________________________\nRobert Reed\t\t\tHome Animation Ltd.\t\t503-656-8414\nrobert@slipknot.rain.com\t5686 First Court, West Linn, OR 97068\n\nSHOOTING YOURSELF IN THE FOOT IN VARIOUS LANGUAGES AND SYSTEMS\n\nMotif: You spend days writing a UIL description of your foot, the\n trajectory, the bullet, and the intricate scrollwork on the ivory handles\n of the gun. When you finally get around to pulling the trigger, the gun\n jams.\n________________________________________________________________________________\n',
'From: koberg@spot.Colorado.EDU (Allen Koberg)\nSubject: Re: The Bible available in every language (was Re: SATANIC TOUNGES)\nOrganization: University of Colorado, Boulder\nLines: 23\n\nIn article <May.9.05.38.18.1993.27323@athos.rutgers.edu> bjorn.b.larsen@delab.sintef.no writes:\n>In article <May.5.02.53.10.1993.28880@athos.rutgers.edu>\n>koberg@spot.Colorado.EDU (Allen Koberg) writes:\n\n>> The concept of tongues as used at Pentecost seems an outdated concept\n>> now. With the Bible available in nearly every language, and missionaries\n>> who are out there in ALL languages, why does the church need tongues?\n\n>I guess there are at least some people who are not able to support\n>this claim. There are still a lot of languages without the Bible, or a\n>part of the Bible. There are still many languages which we are not\n>able to write, simply because the written version of the language has\n>not yet been defined!\n\nYes, I suppose that\'s true. Of course, notice I qualified with NEARLY\nevery language :-). And there are missionaries out there who can\nspeak every imaginable language AND dialect. But then, the fact that\nnot all languages have a WRITTEN gospel lends no credence to the \nconcept of "pentecost" type xenoglossolalia since most tongues occur not\nin these places of un-written language, but rather in churches full\nof people who do have a written language and a Bible in that language.\n\nBut I nitpick.\n',
"From: lilley@v5.cgu.mcc.ac.uk (Chris Lilley)\nSubject: Re: HELP: Need 24 bits viewer\nKeywords: 24 bit\nLines: 24\nReply-To: C.C.Lilley@mcc.ac.uk\nOrganization: Computer Graphics Unit, MCC\n\n\nIn article <5713@seti.inria.fr>, deniaud@cartoon.inria.fr (Gilles Deniaud) writes:\n\n>I'm looking for a program which is able to display 24 bits\n>images. We are using a Sun Sparc equipped with Parallax\n>graphics board running X11.\n\nUtah raster toolkit using getx11. Convert your sun raster files (presumably) to \nppm with the pbm+ toolkit then convert ppm to utah rle format with ppmtorle which\nis provided in the toolkit.\n\nI seem to remember that Xloadimage can do 24 bit servers too.\n\nPossibly xwud the x window un-dump program can display 24 bit images; certainly\nxwd can grab them.\n\n--\nChris Lilley\n----------------------------------------------------------------------------\nTechnical Author, ITTI Computer Graphics and Visualisation Training Project\nComputer Graphics Unit, Manchester Computing Centre, Oxford Road, \nManchester, UK. M13 9PL Internet: C.C.Lilley@mcc.ac.uk \nVoice: +44 (0)61 275 6045 Fax: +44 (0)61 275 6040 Janet: C.C.Lilley@uk.ac.mcc\n------------------------------------------------------------------------------\n",
'From: "James F. Tims" <p00168@psilink.com>\nSubject: Re: Studies on Book of Mormon\nIn-Reply-To: <1993Apr20.211255.12260@leland.Stanford.EDU>\nNntp-Posting-Host: 127.0.0.1\nOrganization: Apothegmatics, Ltd.\nX-Mailer: PSILink-DOS (3.4)\nLines: 103\n\n>DATE: Tue, 20 Apr 93 21:12:55 GMT\n>FROM: Carolyn Jean Fairman <cfairman@leland.Stanford.EDU>\n>\n>agrino@enkidu.mic.cl (Andres Grino Brandt) asks about Mormons.\n>\n>>There are some mention about events, places, or historical persons\n>>later discovered by archeologist?\n>\n>One of the more amusing things in the BOM is a claim that a\n>civilization existed in North America, aroun where the mystical plates\n>were found. Not only did it use steel and other metals, but it had\n>lots of wars (very OT). No one has ever found any metal swords or\n>and traces of a civilization other than the Native Americans.\n>\n>This is just one example.\n\nFrom _Free Inquiry_, Winter 83/84, the following is an\nintroduction to the article "Joseph Smith and the Book of\nMormon", by George D. Smith. The introduction is written by\nPaul Kurtz. \n\n\tMormonism -- the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints\n\t-- claims a worldwide membership 5.2 million. It is one of\n\tthe world\'s fastest growing religions, with as many as\n\t200,000 new converst in 1982 alone. Because of the church\'s\n\taggressive missionary program, covering more than one\n\thundred countries, it is spreading even to third world\n\tcountries.\n\t\n\tMormonism is both puritanical in moral outlook and\n\tevangelical in preachment. The church is run along strict\n\tauthoritarian lines. Led by a president, who allegedly\n\treceives revelations directly form God, and a group of\n\ttwelve apostles who attempt to maintain orthodoxy in belief\n\tand practice, the church is opposed to abortion,\n\tpornography, sexual freedom, women\'s rights, and other, in\n\tits view, immoral influences of secular society, and it\n\tforbids the use of tobacco, alcohol, coffee, and tea.\n\t\n\tCentered in Salt Lake City, the church is extremely wealthy\n\tand politically powerful in Utal and many other western\n\tstates. Among well-know present-day Mormons are Ezra Taft\n\tBenson (former secretary of agriculture), the Osmond family,\n\tthe Mariotts of the hotel empire, and a score of high-placed\n\tgovernment officials.\n\t\n\tThe Mormon church was founded in western New York in 1830 by\n\tJoseph Smith who claimed that by divine revelation be had\n\tfound gold plates containing hieroglyphics buried on a hill\n\tand that with the help of visits from the angel Moroni he\n\thad been able to translate the writing into the _Book of\n\tMormon_, the basis of Mormon belief. This book, written "by\n\tthe commandment of God," claims that the ancient Hebrews\n\tsettled in America about 600 B.C.E. and were the ancestors\n\tof the American Indians. Mormons believe that those who\n\thave been baptized in the "true church" will be reunited\n\tafter death and that deceased non-Mormon family members can\n\tbe baptized by proxy and thus join their relatives in the\n\thereafter. Because of these beliefs, Mormons have been\n\tconsidered outcasts by mainline Christian denominations and\n\tas heretics by religious fundamentalists.\n\t\n\tJoseph Smith was a controversial figure in his day -- he was\n\tboth worshiped as a saint and denounced as a fraud. Because\n\tof persecution he led his band of loyal followers from\n\tPalmyra, New York, westward to Ohio and then to Illinois,\n\twhere in 1844 he was shot to death by an agry mob. Brigham\n\tYoung, who reportedly had as many as eighty wives, took over\n\tthe leadership of the church and led the Mormons further\n\twestward, to found the new Zion in Salt Lake City. \n\tFollowing the teachings of Joseph Smith in the practice of\n\tpolygamy was perhaps the Mormons most controversial practice\n\tin nineteenth-century America.\n\t\n\tWhile other religions go back many centuries --\n\tMuhammadanism, 1200 years; Christianity, 2000; and Judaism,\n\t3000 -- and attempts to examine their beginnings are\n\tdifficult, extensive historical investigation of Mormon\n\troots is possible. Some Mormons are willing to examine this\n\thistory objectively, bu others maintain that such scrutiny\n\tis dangerous to the faith.\n\t\n\tIn the following pages, _Free Inquiry_ presents two articles\n\tabout the Mormon church. First, George D. Smith, a lifelong\n\tmember of the church, provides a detailed critical\n\texamination of Joseph Smith and his claim the the _Book of\n\tMormon_ was divinely revealed. Second, we present a portion\n\tof an interview with philosopher Sterling McMurrin, also a\n\tMormon since birth, who questions the treatment of the\n\thistory of the church by Mormon authorities. -- Paul Kurtz\n\t\n\nThe article itself is super.\n\n ,...,.,,\n /666; \', \n////; _~ - \n(/@/----0-~-0\n ;\' . `` ~ \\\'\n , ` \' , >\n;;|\\..(( -C---->> jimtims p00168@psilink.com \n;;| >- `.__),;;\n\n',
'From: adamsj@gtewd.mtv.gtegsc.com\nSubject: Re: The doctrine of Original Sin\nReply-To: adamsj@gtewd.mtv.gtegsc.com\nOrganization: GTE Govt. Systems, Electronics Def. Div.\nLines: 24\n\nIn article <May.9.05.40.15.1993.27475@athos.rutgers.edu>, Eugene.Bigelow@ebay.sun.com (Geno ) writes:\n> [4) "Nothing unclean shall enter [heaven]" (Rev. 21.27). Therefore,\n> babies are born in such a state that should they die, they are cuf off\n> from God and put in hell, which is exactly the doctrine of St. Augustine\n> and St. Thomas. \n\nI haven\'t read this entire thread, but, if someone hasn\'t tossed this out yet, then here it is: \n\n2 Samuel 12:21-23 (RSV) : \n\n "Then his servants said to him, `What is this thing that you have\n done? You fasted and wept for the child while it was alive; but when\n the child died, you arose and ate food.\' He [David] said, \'While the\n child was still alive, I fasted and wept; for I said, \'Who knows\n whether the LORD will be gracious to me, that the child may live?\' But\n now he is dead; why should I fast? Can I bring him back again? I shall\n go to him, but he will not return to me.\'"\n\nAnyhow, many interpret this to mean that the child has gone to Heaven\n(where David will someday go). I don\'t claim to know for sure if this\napplies to all babies or not. But even if it\'s just this one, what\nwould you say to this?\n\n-jeff adams-\n',
"From: JEK@cu.nih.gov\nSubject: certainty of canonizations\nLines: 20\n\nOn Friday 7 May 1993, Marty Helgesen wrote:\n\n > Public revelation, which is the basis of Catholic doctrine, ended\n > with the death of St John, the last Apostle. Nothing new can be\n > added.\n\nEvery so often, the Pope declares that some departed Christian is\nnow in Heaven, and may be invoked in the public rites of the Church.\nIt is my understanding that Roman Catholics believe that such\ndeclarations by the Pope are infallible. I see three possibilities:\n 1) The Church has received a Public Revelation since the death\nof (for example) Joan of Arc.\n 2) The Church was given a list before the death of St John\nwhich had Joan's name on it.\n 3) There is no public revelation about Joan, and Roman\nCatholics are free to doubt that she died in a state of grace, or\neven that she is a historical character.\n\n Yours,\n James Kiefer\n",
"From: bobbe@vice.ICO.TEK.COM (Robert Beauchaine)\nSubject: Re: thoughts on christians\nOrganization: Tektronix Inc., Beaverton, Or.\nLines: 19\n\nIn article <sandvik-190493224221@sandvik-kent.apple.com> sandvik@newton.apple.com (Kent Sandvik) writes:\n>\n>As I know you can't get any physical problems by passive Christianity,\n>unlike smoking. It's not that hard to avoid Christianity today, anyway.\n>Just ignore 'em.\n>\n\n Right on Keith, err, Kent. \n\n Whadda you mean, you didn't see the smiley?\n\n/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\ \n\nBob Beauchaine bobbe@vice.ICO.TEK.COM \n\nThey said that Queens could stay, they blew the Bronx away,\nand sank Manhattan out at sea.\n\n^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^\n",
'From: mpaul@unl.edu (marxhausen paul)\nSubject: Re: Mary\'s assumption\nOrganization: University of Nebraska--Lincoln\nLines: 31\n\nI hate to sound flippant, having shot off my mouth badly on the net\nbefore, but I\'m afraid that much of this material only adds to my\nfeeling that "the assumption of Mary" would be better phrased "our\nassumptions _about_ Mary." In all the time I\'ve been reading about\nMary on this group, I can not recall reading much about Mary that\ndid not sound like wishful veneration with scant, if any, Scriptural\nfoundation. \n\nI find in the New Testament a very real portrait of Christ\'s parents\nas compellingly human persons; to be honored and admired for their\nhumility and submission to God\'s working, beyond doubt. But the almalga-\nmation of theories and dogma that has accreted around them gives me\nan image of alien and inhuman creatures, untouched by sin or human\ndesire. Only Christ himself was so truly sanctified, and even He knew\ntemptation, albeit without submitting to it.\n\nI also don\'t see the _necessity_ of saying the Holy Parents were some-\nhow sanctified beyond normal humanity: it sounds like our own inability\nto grasp the immensity of God\'s grace in being incarnated through an or-\ndinary human being. \n\nI won\'t start yelling about how people are "worshipping" Mary, etc.,\nsince folks have told me otherwise about that, but I do think we\nlose part of the wonder of God\'s Incarnation in Christ when we make\nhis parents out to be sinless, sexless, deathless, otherworldly beings.\n \n--\npaul marxhausen .... ....... ............. ............ ............ .......... \n .. . . . . . university of nebraska - lincoln . . . .. . . .. . . . . . . .\n . . . . . . . . . . . . . . grace . . . . \n . . . . . . . . happens . \n',
"From: regy105@cantva.canterbury.ac.nz (James Haw)\nSubject: Presentation Package for preaching?\nOrganization: University of Canterbury, Christchurch, New Zealand\nLines: 16\n\nHi,\n What presentation package would you recommend for a Bible teacher?\n I've checked out Harwards Graphics for Windows. I think its more\nsuitable for sales people than for preachers or Bible teachers to present\nan outline of a message.\n\n I'm looking for one that:\n* is great for overhead projector slides.\n* has or imports clip arts\n* works with Word for Windows or imports Word for Windows files.\n* works with inkjet printers\n If you know of any that meets part or all of the above, please let me know.\nPlease email your response as I don't keep up with the newsgroup.\n\nThanking you in advance,\nJames.\n",
'From: acooper@mac.cc.macalstr.edu (Turin Turambar, ME Department of Utter Misery)\nSubject: Re: Societally acceptable behavior\nOrganization: Macalester College\nLines: 55\n\nIn article <C5sA29.14s@news.cso.uiuc.edu>, cobb@alexia.lis.uiuc.edu (Mike Cobb) writes:\n> I guess I\'m delving into a religious language area. What exactly is morality \n> or morals? \n\nI hope there is not one- with a subject like this you just have a spiral. What\nwould then be a morality of a morality of morals. Labels don\'t make arguments. \nOne really needs a solid measuring stick by which most actions can be\ninterpreted, even though this would hardly seem moral. For example "The best\nthing for me is to ensure that I will eat and drink enough. Hence all actions\nmust be weighed against this one statement." whatever helps this goal is\n"moral", whatever does not is "immoral"\n\nOf course this leads such a blank space: there are so many different ways to\nfulfill a goal, one would need a "hyper-morality" to apply to just the methods.\n\n>I never thought of eating meat to be moral or immoral, but I think\n> it could be. How do we differentiate between not doing something because it is\n> a personal choice or preference and not doing something because we see it as \n> immoral? Do we fall to what the basis of these morals are?\n\nSeems to me we only consider something moral or immoral if we stop to think\nabout it long enough :) On the other hand, maybe it is our first gut\nreaction... Which? Who knows: perhaps here we have a way to discriminate\nmorals. I don\'t instinctively thing vegetarianism is right (the same way I\ninstinctively feel torture is wrong), but if I thought about it long enough and\nlistened to the arguments, I could perhaps reason that it was wrong (is that\npossible!? :) ) See the difference?\n\n> \n> Also, consensus positions fall to a might makes right. Or, as you brought out,\n> if whatever is right is what is societally mandated then whoever is in control\n> at the time makes what is right\n> \n> MC\n> MAC\n> --\n> ****************************************************************\n> Michael A. Cobb\n> "...and I won\'t raise taxes on the middle University of Illinois\n> class to pay for my programs." Champaign-Urbana\n> -Bill Clinton 3rd Debate cobb@alexia.lis.uiuc.edu\n> \n> Nobody can explain everything to anybody. G.K.Chesterton\n-- \n\n\nbest regards,\n\n--Adam\n\n********************************************************************************\n* Adam John Cooper\t\t"Verily, often have I laughed at the weaklings *\n* (612) 696-7521\t\t who thought themselves good simply because *\n* acooper@macalstr.edu\t\t\t\tthey had no claws."\t *\n********************************************************************************\n',
'From: revdak@netcom.com (D. Andrew Kille)\nSubject: Re: Mary\'s assumption\nOrganization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)\nLines: 13\n\nDave Bernard (David.Bernard@central.sun.com) wrote:\n\n: When Elizabeth greeted Mary, Elizabeth said something to the effect that\n: Mary, out of all women, was blessed. If so, it appears that this\n: exactly places Mary beyond the sanctification of normal humanity.\n\nThe phrase is "eulogemene su en gunaixin"- "blessed are you among women."\nThere is nothing to indicate that this is an exceptional or unique status,\nonly that _as a woman_ Mary was blessed. Adding the word "all" is not\na fair reading of the text. There are some good reasons for the church\'s\nveneration of Mary, but they cannot depend on this verse.\n\nrevdak@netcom.com\n',
'From: aaronc@athena.mit.edu (Aaron Bryce Cardenas)\nSubject: Re: Mormon beliefs about children born out of wedlock\nOrganization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology\nLines: 32\n\nBruce Webster writes:\n>Indeed, LDS doctrine goes one step further and in some cases\n>holds parents responsible for their children\'s sins if they have\n>failed to bring them up properly (cf. D&C 68:25-28; note that this\n>passage applies it only to members of the LDS church).\n\nHi Bruce. How do you reconcile this practice with Ezekiel 18?\nEzekiel 18:20 "The soul who sins is the one who will die. The son will not\nshare the guilt of the father, nor will the father share the guilt of the\nson. The righteousness of the righteous man will be credited to him, and\nthe wickedness of the wicked will be charged against him."\n\nIs Ezekiel 18 not translated correctly in your eyes perhaps?\n\nSincerely,\n\nAaron Cardenas\n\nP.S. I too am bothered to see offensive words being posted on this\nnewsgroup. Obscenity is out of place for anyone who wants to live by the\nBible (Eph 5:4).\n\nModerator: I would appreciate your not letting posts with foul language\nthrough, which has happened at least twice lately. Thank you.\n\n[I try to avoid foul language. Bastard is certainly foul language\nwhen shouted at someone as an insult. But in this case it was being\nused in its original technical sense. Similarly, hell is an obscenity\nin some contexts, but not when referring to the afterlife. It is not\nclear to me that bastard is foul language when it\'s being used in its\nproper meaning. One of today\'s postings quotes Deut 23:2. Am I\nto prohibit that? --clh]\n',
"From: tmc@spartan.ac.BrockU.CA (Tim Ciceran)\nSubject: Re: Corel Draw or Harvard Draw?\nOrganization: Brock University, St. Catharines Ontario\nX-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL9]\nDistribution: usa\nLines: 32\n\nLarry Landwehr (larry@ducktales.med.ge.com) wrote:\n: My wife wants to publish a newsletter. She's no artist, so she intends to\n: use comercial clipart and customise it a bit by drawing a circle or a box\n: around it etc. \n: \n: We have MSPublisher for manipulating text, but it is not suitable for doing\n: much with graphics, so she needs a more specialised tool. Right now she's\n: looking at Corel Draw and Harvard Draw. There seem to be more books in the\n: stores on Corel than on Harvard, so she's inclined to go with Corel on the\n: basis of popularity. Can anyone give us an informed opinion on which \n: package would be more suitable or if there is an even better alternative\n: available? If this is a FAQ, please withhold the flames and just send the\n: location of the FAQ document. Thanks.\n: \n\nGo with CorelDraw. PCMag just did a review a couple of issues ago and Adobe\nIllustrator and CorelDraw were picked as the best.\n\n: Three PS's:\n: \n: 1) Is it ok to use clip art from Harvard Draw or whatever for commercial\n: purposes?\n\n(other two deleted...)\nAs far as I know it's okay. You'd have to read the licence agreement that\ncomes with the package to be sure.\n\n-- \n\nTMC\n(tmc@spartan.ac.BrockU.ca)\n\n",
'From: ttrusk@its.mcw.edu (Thomas Trusk)\nSubject: Re: Krillean Photography\nReply-To: ttrusk@its.mcw.edu\nOrganization: Medical College of Wisconsin (Milwaukee, WI)\nLines: 24\nNNTP-Posting-Host: pixel.cellbio.mcw.edu\nrganization: Medical College of Wisconsin\n\n\nIn article <C67G01.2J1@efi.com> alanm@efi.com (Alan Morgan) writes:\n>In article <C65oIL.436@vuse.vanderbilt.edu> \n> alex@vuse.vanderbilt.edu (Alexander P. Zijdenbos) writes:\n>\n>>I am neither a real believer, nor a disbeliever when it comes to\n>>so-called "paranormal" stuff; but as far as I\'m concerned, it is just\n>>as likely as the existence of, for instance, a god, which seems to be\n>>quite accepted in our societies - without any scientific basis.\n>\n>Oooooh. Bad example. I\'m an atheist.\n>\nThis is not flame, or abuse, nor do I want to start another thread (this\nis, after all, supposed to be about IMAGE PROCESSING).\n\nBUT, to say you\'re an atheist is to suggest you have PROOF there is NO GOD.\nTo be a politically-correct skeptic, better to go with agnostic, like me! :)\n*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*==*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=\n*Dr. Thomas Trusk * *\n*Dept. of Cellular Biology & Anatomy * Email to ttrusk@its.mcw.edu *\n*Medical College of Wisconsin * *\n*Milwaukee, WI 53226 * *\n*(414) 257-8504 * *\n*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*==*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=\n',
'From: finn@bsc.no (Finn Chr. Lundbo)\nSubject: Re: Help needed: DXF ---> IFF\nOrganization: Bergen Scientific Centre, Bergen, NORWAY\nLines: 30\n\nIn article <1993Apr30.011157.12995@news.columbia.edu> ph14@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Pei Hsieh) writes:\n>Hi -- sorry if this is a FAQ, but are there any conversion utilities\n>available for Autodesk *.DXF to Amiga *.IFF format? I\n>checked the comp.graphics FAQ and a number of sites, but so far\n>no banana. Please e-mail.\n>\n>Thanks.\n>\n> _______ Pei Hsieh\n> (_)===(_) e-mail: ph14@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu\n> ||||| "There\'s no such thing as a small job; just small fees."\n> ||||| - anon., on being an architect\n\nHei Pei.\n\nI can not help you directly width you problem, but there may be\nintermediate roads to take to get to the IFF. I am using a converter\nthat can take IGES, IIF, DXF -> IGES, MILESPEC I IGES, MILESPEC II IGES, \nIIF, MILESPEC I IIF, MILESPEC II IIF and DXF.\n\nIIF is IBM IGES FORMAT. There may be converters out there that can handle\nIGES to IFF. Hope this was to any help. By the way the converter is part\nof the IGES Processor/6000 package from IBM and it runs on RS/6000 AIX.\n\nBest regard\nFinn Chr. Lundbo\nIBM Bergen Environmental Sciences\n& Solutions Centre.\nE-mail: finn@bsc.no\n\n',
'From: banschbach@vms.ocom.okstate.edu\nSubject: Re: Kidney Stones\nLines: 68\nNntp-Posting-Host: vms.ocom.okstate.edu\nOrganization: OSU College of Osteopathic Medicine\n\nIn article <1993Apr28.095305.3587@rose.com>, ron.roth@rose.com (ron roth) writes:\n> banschbach@vms.ocom.okstate.edu (Marty Banschbach) writes:\n> [...]\n> B > Medicine has not, and probalby never will be, practiced this way. There\n> B > has always been the use of conventional wisdom. A very good example is\n> B > kidney stones. Conventional wisdom(because clinical trails have not been\n> B > done to come up with an effective prevention), was that restricitng the\n> B > intake of calcium and oxalates was the best way to prevent kidney stones\n> B > from forming. Clinical trials focused on drugs or ultrasonic blasts to\n> B > breakdown the stone once it formed. Through the recent New England J of\n> B > Medicine article, we now know that conventional wisdom was wrong,\n> B > increasing calcium intake is better at preventing stone formation than is\n> B > restricting calcium intake. \n> [...]\n> B > Marty B.\n> \n> Marty, I personally wouldn\'t be so quick and take that NEJM article \n> on kidney stones as gospel. First of all, I would want to know who\n> sponsored that study.\n> I have seen too many "nutrition" bulletins over the years from\n> local newspapers, magazines, to TV-guide, with disclaimers on the\n> bottom informing us that this great health news was brought to us\n> compliments of the Dairy Industries.\n> There are of course numerous other interest groups now that thrive\n> financially on the media hype created from the supposedly enormous \n> benefits of increasing one\'s calcium intake.\n> \n> Secondly, were ALL the kidney stones of the test subjects involved \n> in that project analysed for their chemical composition? The study\n> didn\'t say that, it only claimed that "most kidney stones are large-\n> ly calcium."\n> Perhaps it won\'t be long before another study comes up with the exact\n> opposite findings. A curious phenomenon with researchers is that they\n> are oftentimes just plain wrong. It wouldn\'t be the first time.\n> \n> Sodium/magnesium/calcium/phosphorus ratios are, in my opinion, still \n> the most reliable indicators for the cause, treatment, and prevention \n> of kidney stones.\n> I, for one, will continue to recommend the most logical changes in\n> one\'s diet or through supplementation to counteract or prevent kidney\n> stones of either type; and they definitely won\'t include an INCREASE\n> in calcium if the stones have been identified as being of the calcium\n> type and people\'s chemical analysis confirms that they would benefit\n> from a PHOSPHORUS-raising approach instead!\n> \n> Ron Roth\n\nRon, you are absolutely right. Not all kidney stones have calcium and not \nall calcium stones are calcium-oxalate. But the vast majority are calcium-\noxalate. Calcium is just one piece of the puzzle. I cited that NEJM article \nas a way of pointing out to some of the physicians in this group that \nconventional wisdom is used in medicine, always has been and probably \nalways will be. If one uses conventional wisdom, there is a chance that \nyou will be wrong. As long as the error is not going to cause a lot of \ndamage, what\'s the big deal(why call a physician who gives anti-fungals to \nsinus suffers or GI distress patients a quack?).\n\nOn the kidney stone problem. I\'d want a mineral profile run in a clinical \nchemistry lab. Balance is much more important than the dietary intake of \ncalcium. I know that you use an electrical conductance technique to \nmeasure mineral balance in the body. I know that you don\'t think that the \nserum levels for minerals are very useful(I agree). If I can get a good \nnutritional assessment lab setup where I can actually measure the tissue \nreserve for minerals, I\'d like to do a collaborative study with you to see \nhow your technique compares with mine.\n\n\nMarty B.\n',
'From: mpdillon@halcyon.com (Michael Dillon)\nSubject: Re: MGR NAPLPS & GUI BBS Frontends\nOrganization: "A World of Information at your Fingertips"\nLines: 46\nNNTP-Posting-Host: nwfocus.wa.com\n\n>Hi all,\n>I am looking into methods I can use to turn my Linux based BBS into a full color\n>Graphical BBS that supports PC, Mac, Linux, and Amiga callers. \n>Originally I was inspired by the NAPLPS graphics standard (a summary of \n>which hit this group about 2 weeks ago). \n\nI posted that document (forgot part 1/6 etc) but it was more than a summary,\nit was a complete technical description of the protocol. It can be ftped\nfrom simtel or from wuarchive.wustl.edu in mirrors/msdos/naplps\n\n>Following up on software availability of NAPLPS supporting software I find\n>that most terminal programs are commercial the only resonable shareware one being\n>PP3 which runs soley on MSDOS machines leaving Mac and Amiga users to buy full\n>commercial software if they want to try out the BBS (I know I wouldn\'t)\n>\n>Next most interesting possibility is to port MGR to PC, Mac, Amiga. I\n\nWhy not write a NAPLPS decoder for your choice of platform and release the\ncode to the net? Then other willing souls can help port it to other platforms.\nNAPLPS was designed for this type of online interactive graphics much the\nsame as X, but while X is intended for high-bandwidth network connections,\nNAPLPS was optimized for low bandwidth modem connections.\n>\n>Is there a color version of MGR for Linux? \n>\n>Does anyone have any other suggestions for a Linux based GUI BBS ?\n\nI\'m sure you will receive other suggestions but look at it this way. If you\nwanted to provide a full network connection to Linux over a modem would you\nuse SLIP/PPP or would you invent some new way? Most people would say that\nSLIP/PPP exist and are reasonably well designed protocols, so lets just\nimplement them. I see it the same way with NAPLPS. It is an existing, well\nthought out, extensible protocol for online graphics, so why not implement\nit.\n\nIf you need any advice on implementation, just e-mail me. I am currently\ngetting a beta version of my CorelDraw to NAPLPS converter working well\nenough to release it by May 15. If you or someone else does not get going\non a freely available NAPLPS decoder, then I intend to do it after I get\na my conversion program out of beta, and get a couple of other things done.\n\n-- \nMichael Dillon Internet: mpdillon@halcyon.halcyon.com\nC-4 Powerhouse Fidonet: 1:353/350\nRR #2 Armstrong, BC V0E 1B0 Voice: +1-604-546-8022\nCanada BBS: +1-604-546-2705\n',
'From: wiesel-elisha@yale.edu (Elisha Wiesel)\nSubject: INFO: Colonics and Purification?\nOrganization: Yale University Science & Engineering UNIX(tm), New Haven, CT 06520-2158\nLines: 29\nDistribution: world\nNNTP-Posting-Host: minerva.cis.yale.edu\n\nRecently I\'ve come upon a body of literature which promotes colon\ncleansing as a vital aid to preventive medicine through nutrition. In\nparticular, Dr. Bernard Jenssen in his book "Colon Cleansing for\nHealth and Longevity" -- the title actually escapes me, but it is very\nsimilar to that -- claims that regular self-administered colonics,\nalong with certain orally ingested "debris-loosening agents", boosts\nthe immune system to a significant degree.\n\nHe also plugs a unique appliance called the "Colema Board", which\nfacilitates the self-administration of colonics. It sells for over\n$100 from a California-based company. He also plugs Vitra-Tox\nproducts as his chemical agents of choice: these include volcanic ash,\nsupposedly for its electrical charge, and psyllium powder, for its\nbulkiness.\n\nIf anyone knows anything about colon cleansing theory, its\nparticulars, or the Colema Board and related products, I\'d be very\ninterested to hear about research and personal experience.\n\nThis article is crossposted to alt.magick as the issue touches upon\nfasting and cleansing through a "ritual" system of purification.\n\n-- Eli\n\n-- \n/-------------------------------------------------------------------------\\\n![wiesel@cs.yale.edu] Elisha Wiesel, Davenport College \'94 Yale University! \n![wiesel@minerva.cis.yale.edu] (203) 436-1338<-School (212) 371-2756<-Home!\n\\-------------------------------------------------------------------------/\n',
'From: jcj@tellabs.com (jcj)\nSubject: Re: Why do people become atheists?\nOrganization: Huh? Whuzzat?\nLines: 15\n\nIn article <May.7.01.09.44.1993.14556@athos.rutgers.edu> muirm@argon.gas.organpipe.uug.arizona.edu (maxwell c muir) writes:\n>\n>I think you should give up the amatuer psysochology :).\n>...\n>\tIn all candor, I would be happy to be proven wrong. Problem is,\n>I will have to be _proven_ wrong.\n>\tDo I sound "broken" to you?\n\nAbsolutely not. I went through a "journey" of lukewarm Christianity,\nagnosticism, atheism, agnosticism, and now (although I know my faith\nis less than what it should be) Christianity again. I think it\'s a path\nmany of us take.\n\nJeff Johnson\njcj@tellabs.com\n',
'Subject: Re: POVray : tga -> rle\nFrom: Craig.Humphrey@comp.vuw.ac.nz (Craig Andrew Humphrey)\nReply-To: chumphre@comp.vuw.ac.nz\nDistribution: world\nOrganization: Victoria University of Wellington. New Zealand\nNNTP-Posting-Host: depot.comp.vuw.ac.nz\nLines: 33\n\n\nIn article <ltqp28INNpa7@pageboy.cs.utexas.edu>, jhpark@cs.utexas.edu (Jihun Park) writes:\n>Hello,\n>I have some problem in converting tga file(generated by POVray) to\n>rle file. When I convert, I do not get any warning message. But\n>if I use xloadimage/getx11, something is wrong.\n\n[edited]\n\n>I know that I need to install ppmtorle and tgatoppm, but I do not spend\n>time to install them. Even I do not want to generate .rgb from POVray\n>and then convert them to rle, if possible.(.rgb to rle works, but\n>it will mess up my directory with so many files, and it needs 2 more\n>steps to finally convert to rle file. say cat | rawtorle | rleflip )\n>Does any body out there have same experience/problems ?\n\n\nWell for starters, why use rle files? You might have a specific program that\nneeds them, OK, but I tend to convert straight to jpeg format, thus a 2.4meg\n24bit targa file becomes a ~80k or less 24bit jpeg.\n\nThe latest versions of XV (2.2.1 ?) and xloadimage (3.03) both handle jpeg files.\nAnd the best way to convert to jpeg is with the c/djpeg suit. Even at 90%\nquality (you can\'t see the difference) the jpeg is way smaller than anything\nelse even an 8bit gif!\n\nLater\'ish\nCraig\n-- \n |\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/| "I didn\'t do it, nobody saw me do it, \n | ___ ___ | you can\'t prove anything." \n |/ \\/ \\| craig.humphrey@stargate.actrix.gen.nz\n__ccc_c_#_|__#_ccc_c____chumphre@comp.vuw.ac.nz______________________________\n',
'From: wdh@faron.mitre.org (Dale Hall)\nSubject: Re: Pregnency without sex?\nSummary: None\nKeywords: none\nNntp-Posting-Host: faron.mitre.org\nOrganization: Research Computer Facility, MITRE Corporation, Bedford, MA\nDistribution: usa\nLines: 10\n\nIn article <8frk1ym00Vp5Apxl1q@andrew.cmu.edu> "Gabriel D. Underwood" <gabe+@CMU.EDU> writes:\n>I heard a great Civil War story... A guy on the battlfield is shot\n>in the groin, the bullet continues on it\'s path, and lodges in the\n>abdomen of a female spectator. Lo and behold....\n>\n>As the legend goes, both parents survived, married, and raised the child.\n>\n\n\t....who turned out to be a real son-of-a-gun.\n\n',
'From: JEK@cu.nih.gov\nSubject: The crowd before Pilate\nLines: 24\n\nIn a post of 29 April (?), considering disasters as instances of the\njudgements of God in history, Andy Byler spoke of\n\n > the desire of the Jerusalem mob who crucified the Lord that\n > "His blood be upon us."\n\nVera Noyes replied (02 May),\n\n > I will not comment here for fear of being heavily flamed.\n\nI invite them both (and other interested parties as well) to read my\ncomments on this verse of Scripture. To obtain them, send the\nmessage GET CHOOSING BARABBAS to LISTSERV@ASUACAD.BITNET or to\nLISTSERV@ASUVM.INRE.ASU.EDU. Putting it briefly, I think that the\nsignificance of the demands of the Jerusalem crowd has usually been\ngreatly misunderstood, both by Christian and by anti-Christian\nreaders.\n\n Yours,\n James Kiefer\n\n[You should send email to that address, with the contents of the\nmessage being a single line containing the GET command. The\nsubject line is apparently ignored, at least by ASUVM. --clh]\n',
'From: markv@pixar.com (Mark T. VandeWettering)\nSubject: Re: Krillean Photography\nNntp-Posting-Host: taz.pixar.com\nOrganization: Pixar -- Point Richmond, California\nLines: 35\n\nalex@vuse.vanderbilt.edu (Alexander P. Zijdenbos) writes:\n\n>FLAME ON\n\n>Reading through the posts about Kirlian (whatever spelling)\n>photography I couldn\'t help but being slightly disgusted by the\n>narrow-minded, "I know it all", "I don\'t believe what I can\'t see or\n>measure" attitude of many people out there.\n\n\t\n>I am neither a real believer, nor a disbeliever when it comes to\n>so-called "paranormal" stuff; but as far as I\'m concerned, it is just\n>as likely as the existence of, for instance, a god, which seems to be\n>quite accepted in our societies - without any scientific basis.\n\n\tAccepted by whom? People who think digital watches are a \n\treal good idea? That 60 channels of television is 10x better \n\tthan 6 channels of television? \n\n>I am convinced that it is a serious mistake to close your mind to\n>something, ANYTHING, simply because it doesn\'t fit your current frame\n>of reference. History shows that many great people, great scientists,\n>were people who kept an open mind - and were ridiculed by sceptics.\n\n\tYou\'re right. Keep an open mind to the following:\n\n\t1. Taco flavored donuts.\n\t2. Cannibalism. Good way to get that extra protein in the diet.\n\t3. Belief in Yawanga, armadillo god of parking meters.\n\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nMark VandeWettering\nTruest Servant of Yawanga! Oh Yawanga! He who never will become a road-pizza!\nAll of my quarters and dimes, nay even nickels, will be spent to buy time to \n\t\tpark in your eternal parking lot!\n',
"From: agr00@ccc.amdahl.com (Anthony G Rose)\nSubject: Re: Satan kicked out of heaven: Biblical?\nReply-To: agr00@juts.ccc.amdahl.com (Anthony G Rose)\nOrganization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA\nLines: 8\n\n[This is a response to a request for a Biblical reference about Satan\nbeing a fallen angel. --clh]\n\nIsaiah 14:12\n\n[A common reading of this passage is that it's referring to\nthe King of Babylon, using mythological language ironically,\nbecause of his claims. --clh]\n",
'From: loisc@microsoft.com (Lois Christiansen)\nSubject: Re: Homosexuality issues in Christianity\nOrganization: Microsoft Corp.\nLines: 20\n\nIn article <May.11.02.36.59.1993.28108@athos.rutgers.edu> dps@nasa.kodak.com wrote:\n> In article 15441@geneva.rutgers.edu, loisc@microsoft.com (Lois Christiansen) writes:\n\n> |>You might visit some congregations of Christians, who happen to be homosexuals,\n> |>that are spirit-filled believers, not MCC\'rs; before you go lumping us all\n> |>together with Troy Perry. \n\n> Gee, I think there are some real criminals (robbers, muderers, drug\n> addicts) who appear to be fun loving caring people too. So what\'s\n> your point? Is it OK. just because the people are nice?\n\nI didn\'t say to visit some "nice" homosexuals. I said "visit some congregations\nof Christians..spirit-filled believers.."\n\n\nPraise the Lord that we are all members of the same body. Let us agree to\ndisagree.\n\nGod Bless You and See you in Heaven\nLoisc\n',
'From: kxgst1+@pitt.edu (Kenneth Gilbert)\nSubject: Re: Persistent vs Chronic\nOrganization: University of Pittsburgh\nLines: 39\n\nIn article <10557@blue.cis.pitt.edu> doyle+@pitt.edu (Howard R Doyle) writes:\n:Being a chronic HBsAg carrier does not necessarily mean the patient has chronic\n:persistent anything. Persons who are chronic carriers may have no clinical,\n:biochemical, or histologic evidence of liver disease, or they may have chronic\n:persistent hepatitis, chronic active hepatitis, cirrhosis, or hepatocellular\n:carcinoma.\n:\n:Most cases of chronic persistent hepatitis (CPH) are probably the result of\n:a viral infection, although in a good number of cases the cause cannot be\n:determined. The diagnosis of CPH is made on the basis of liver biopsy. It\n:consists of findings of portal inflammation, an intact periportal limiting\n:plate, and on occasion isolated foci of intralobular necrosis. But in contrast\n:to chronic active hepatitis (CAH) there is no periportal inflammation, \n:bridging necrosis, or fibrosis. \n:\n:CPH has, indeed, an excellent prognosis. If I had to choose between CAH and\n:CPH there is no question I would also choose CPH. However, as David pointed\n:out, the distinction between the two is not as neat as some of us would have\n:it. The histology can sometimes be pretty equivocal, with biopsies showing\n:areas compatible with both CPH and CAH. Maybe it is a sampling problem. Maybe\n:it is a continuum. I don\'t know.\n\nDarn. Just when I think I understand something someone who knows the\npathology has to burst my bubble :-( We\'d better not start talking about\nglomerular diseases, then I\'ll really get depressed.\n\nSeriously though, I wonder how someone with CPH would end up getting a\nbiopsy in the first place? My understanding (and feel free to correct me)\nis that the enzymes are at worst mildly elevated, with overall normal\nhepatic function. I would think that the only clue might be a history of\nprior HepB infection and a positive HepB-sAg. Or is it indeed on a\ncontinuum with CAH, and the distinction merely one of pathology and\nprognosis, but otherwise identical clinical features?\n\n-- \n=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-|-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=\n= Kenneth Gilbert __|__ University of Pittsburgh =\n= General Internal Medicine | "...dammit, not a programmer!" =\n=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-|-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=\n',
"From: mccullou@snake10.cs.wisc.edu (Mark McCullough)\nSubject: Re: Gulf War (was Re: Death Penalty was Re: Political Atheists?)\nOrganization: University of Wisconsin, Madison -- Computer Sciences Dept.\nLines: 46\n\nIn article <930421.120012.2o5.rusnews.w165w@mantis.co.uk> mathew <mathew@mantis.co.uk> writes:\n>mccullou@snake2.cs.wisc.edu (Mark McCullough) writes:\n>> I looked back at this, and asked some questions of various people and\n>> got the following information which I had claimed and you pooh-poohed.\n>> The US has not sold Iraq any arms.\n>\n>What about the land mines which have already been mentioned?\n\nI asked around in one of the areas you suggested yourself, and presented\nthe information I got. No mention of US landmines was given.\n\n>> other countries (like Kuwait). Information is hard to prove. You are\n>> claiming that the US sold information? Prove it. [...] Information\n>> is hard to prove, almost certainly if the US did sell information, then that\n>> fact is classified, and you can't prove it.\n>\n>Oh, very neat. Dismiss everything I say unless I can prove beyond a shadow\n>of a doubt something which you yourself admit I can never prove to your\n>satisfaction. Thanks, I'll stick to squaring circles.\n>\n>mathew\n\nOkay, so you are going to blindly believe in things without reasonable\nevidence? I didn't realize you were a theist. I am doubting a claim\npresented without any evidence to support it. If you are able to present\nreal evidence for it, then great. But unsupported claims, or even claims\nby such and such news agency will not be accepted. If you want to\nstick to the sheer impossible, instead of the merely difficult, then\nfine. \n\nThe statement that if such a fact is classified, then you \ncan't prove it, is a simple matter of pragmatics and the law. If you \nhave access to classified information that you know to be classified,\nand you reveal it, there is a good chance that you or someone else \n(the person who revealed it to you), is going to jail. \n\nI never said that you couldn't prove it to my satisfaction, I merely\nsaid that it was difficult. (Who said I try and make things easy\nfor people I am arguing with :) (Unless of course, they need the\nhandicap).\n\n-- \n***************************************************************************\n* mccullou@whipple.cs.wisc.edu * Never program and drink beer at the same *\n* M^2 * time. It doesn't work. *\n***************************************************************************\n",
'From: rich0043@student.tc.umn.edu (Timothy Richardson)\nSubject: Re: Mary\'s assumption\nOrganization: Pygmalion Productions\nLines: 31\n\nIn article <May.9.05.41.32.1993.27562@athos.rutgers.edu> Brian Finnerty,\nbfinnert@chaph.usc.edu writes:\n> One last point: an ex-Catholic attempted to explain Catholic doctrine\n> on the assumption by asserting it is connected to a belief that Mary\n> did not die. This is not a correct summary of what Catholics believe.\n> The dogma of the assumption was carefully phrased to avoid saying\n> whether Mary did or did not die. In fact, the consensus among Catholic\n> theologians seems to be that Mary in fact did die. This would make\n> sense: Christ died, and his Mother, who waited at the foot of the\n> cross, would want to share in his death.\n\nThe above article is a good short summary of traditional Christian\nteaching concerning the death of Mary. \nAlso very good is "Re: Question about the Virgin Mary" by Micheal D.\nWalker. He tells the story very well.\nI would like to add that in the Eastern Orthodox Church we celebrate "The\nDormition (or falling asleep) of the Theotokos (the mother of God)". The\nIcon for this day shows Mary lying on a bed surrounded by the Apostles\nwho are weeping. Christ, in his resurrected glory, is there holding what\nseems to be a small child. This is, in fact, Mary\'s soul already with\nChrist in Heaven. The Assumption of Mary is one more confirmation for us\nas Christians that Christ did indeed conquer death. It forshadows the\ngeneral resurrection on the last day. The disciples were not surprised\nto find Mary\'s body missing from the grave. She was the Mother of the\nSavior. She was the first of all Christians. She gave birth to the Word\nof God. If it were not for her we would not be saved. This is why we\npray in the Orthodox Church, "Through the prayers of the Theotokos,\nSavior save us."\n\nTimothy Richardson\nrich0043@student.tc.umn.edu\n',
'From: ttknock@SantaFe.edu (Boss Hogg)\nSubject: POV animating\nOrganization: The Santa Fe Institute\nLines: 20\nNNTP-Posting-Host: sanjuan.santafe.ede\nX-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]\n\n\n In an attempt to do animation with POV I have created two little\nprograms. One is a C program that will perform a "morph" between\nany two points given the amount of frames for the morph. And then\nit will write the points, and the function (translate, rotate, etc.) out\nto a file. Then I have a Perl script that will read the list of functions\nand insert them into a .pov file at a given line. I had hoped this would\nlet me do simple animation. However, I have discovered that simply\nperforming incremental rotations on an object will not spin a stationary\nobject but will actually rotate the object about the axis. Now I know\nan easy way around this would be to first translate the object to the\norigin perform the rotation and then move it back but I know there \nmust be another way around this. I had thought perhaps it was because\nI had created objects at the origin and then translated them to a new\npoint and then done the rotation, which could cause this behavior. However\nthis occurs on objects that are not translated at all. Any help is \nappreciated.\n\nttknock@bbs.santafe.edu\n\n',
'From: draper@umcc.umcc.umich.edu (Patrick Draper)\nSubject: Re: Need info on Circumcision, medical cons and pros\nOrganization: UMCC, Ann Arbor, MI\nLines: 30\nNNTP-Posting-Host: umcc.umcc.umich.edu\n\nIn article <1rsvgr$r13@nym.ossi.com> texx@ossi.com ("Texx") writes:\n>Oh YEAH ?\n>\n>Scene: Navy boot camp\n>\n>DI:\t\t"Son, you smel awful! Dont you ever clean that thing?"\n>Recruit:\t"No Sir !"\n>DI:\t\t"Why the hell NOT!"\n>Recruit:\t"Your not sposed to touch down there?"\n>DI:\t\t"Why ?"\n>Recruit:\t"Cause thats the eye of god down there, an\' your not s\'posed to touch it..."\n>\n>This did not happen 40 years ago, it happened 2 years ago.\n>\n>I think Americans are QUITE hung up about sex and the involved plumbing!\n\n\nWow that certainly CONVINCED me that all Americans ar hung up about sex.\nJust one example of something that probably ran in a Hustler mag is enough\nto convince me.\n\nSarchasm off.\n\n\n------------------////////////////////\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\------------------\n| Patrick Draper-ZBT We are a nation of laws, not people. |\n| draper@umcc.umich.edu Flames > /dev/Koresh |\n| University of Michigan Computer Club |\n------------------\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\////////////////////------------------\n\n',
'From: muirm@argon.gas.organpipe.uug.arizona.edu (maxwell c muir)\nSubject: Re: Why do people become atheists?\nOrganization: University of Arizona, Tucson\nLines: 161\n\nIn article <May.9.05.41.56.1993.27583@athos.rutgers.edu> gt7122b@prism.gatech.edu (Randal Lee Nicholas Mandock) writes:\n>In article <May.7.01.09.44.1993.14556@athos.rutgers.edu> muirm@argon.gas.organpipe.uug.arizona.edu (maxwell c muir) writes:\n>\n>>In all candor, I would be happy to be proven wrong [about believing \n>>in atheism]. Problem is, I will have to be _proven_ wrong.\n>\n>In mentioning some nonsense about psychology :) and atheism, Bob Muir asks\n>the following question. \n\nNo smiley on the part about atheism, I see. Do you realize that your\nstatement says that I was mentioning "nonsense" about atheism? This is\nhard for me to defend against if this is the claim you are making, as you\nhave only included the last two sentences of my post and mentioned the\nfirst. Please address the substance of my post rather than rejecting it\nout of hand. \nBut, because of the sometimes ambiguous nature of English, I may be\nmisinterpreting your wording here. Please clarify: did you or did you not\nmean to call my statements about atheism "nonsense"? If so, care to back\nup that claim?\n\n>>\tDo I sound "broken" to you?\n>\n>I answer in the affirmative.\n\nOK, then. Start up the amatuer psycology again. How am I "broken"?\n\n>Is it politically correct for Christians to be the only besieged group\n>permitted the luxury of arrogance? \n\n*YAWN* Excuse me, I don\'t recall any portion of my post in which I called\nChristians arrogant quote me, if I did. I do remember calling Christianity\n"silly" and then following that up with information that I was nine years\nold when I thought that. I also said that I find faith to be intellectually\ndishonest and I would like to see some sort of proof of your god\'s\nexistence. I define "faith" as "belief in the absense of any proof", BTW.\n\nAlso, I subscribe to a.a as I mentioned and we see fundies of all types\nthere, so in answer to your question: "no."\n\nFinally, I\'d hardly call Christianity "beseiged" in this country. I seldom\nsee Christians ridiculed for merely practising their religion or wearing\ncrosses or having Christian bumper stickers. I don\'t know for sure, of\ncourse, I only say I haven\'t seen it happening. What I have seen happening\nis my homosexual and/or friends being beat up, or preached at by people\nwho claim to be Christ\'s followers. I know that this sort of thing isn\'t\npracticed by the majority of Christians, but it is a very vocal minority\nwho are doing it and I don\'t see comperable victimization of Christians. \n\n>Now I have a question for Bob. Why in the world would any self-respecting\n>atheist want to subscribe to a Christian news group? \n\nThe implication being that I am not self-respecting, of course. I\'m not a\nstudent of psychology, BTW, but I am a student of Creative Writing and\nLinguistics, so literary analysis _is_ my forte. Also, if the implications\nI see are improper, please let me know.\nI\'m here because I\'m not sequestered in my own little atheist cubbyhole as\nyou seem to think atheists should be. Did it occur to you that I _don\'t_\nthink I know everything and that maybe someone will say something that\nwill change my life? Have you read my other posts here or did you see\n"atheist" and decide it was time to poke at someone who doesn\'t deserve\nyour respect?\nAw, geez. I\'m sorry, I probably am getting my back up a little too high,\nhere. It\'s just that the "nonsense" thing really annoys me. I figure you\nshould see my first reactions, though, since they are my true reactions to\nyour question.\nNow, the smoothed feather version:\nI seek all sorts of knowledge. That\'s why I came to my university. Yes, I\nam looking at your religion (well, sorta, I have no idea what *kind* of\nChristian you are) from the outside, and hopefully with an objective view.\nI\'ve been trying to ask reasoned questions here, because I genuinely don\'t\nknow the answers to them, but when I saw the question directed at atheists\nI figured I would answer. After all, you can speculate about atheist\nmotives here all you want (hence the "amatuer" psychology crack), but\nwithout an atheist, you can\'t be sure of even one atheist\'s motive. \nI\'m hoping people really\nwant to know and I was trying to show that I actually checked out several\nreligions and I actually read all the pamphlets people have to offer and I\nactually think about these things. Instead, I\'m still faced with the\nimplication that atheism is some kind of aberration and that only "broken"\npeople are atheist.\n\tTry it from the flip side: I posit that atheism is the natural\nstate and only broken people are theists. I offer as proof that so many\npeople witness from horrible lives which picked up as soon as they \ndiscovered their religion, that religion is regional (if people didn\'t\nfollow the religion of their areas, there would be a more homogenous\nmix), so many terrorists claim theistic motives, and that theists tend\nto be so pushy and angry when challenged on alt.atheism. Why are religions\nso successful? Because there is so much suffering in the world, which \n"breaks" people.\nIt\'s an uncomfortable situation whichever way you look at it, which is another\nreason I\'m here, to try to see the flip side of my thinking (and also as \na watchdog for logical fallacies :).\n>I have a \n>difficult enough time keeping up with it, and I think I know something\n ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^\n>about the subject. \n ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^\nThe implication here being that atheists can\'t possibly know anything\nabout Christianity. Probably jumping at shadows again, but I think my\nreaction is somewhat justified. After all, the first post suggested that\natheists are "broken", hostile people. This post confirms that someone\nelse believes it. \n\n>\n>Bob reminds me of my roommate. In order to disbelieve atheism, he says \n ^^^^^^^^^^\n>he will need to be proven wrong about it. \n\nWell, he got me there. I am a strong atheist, because I feel that lack of\nevidence, especially about something like an omnipotent being, implies\nlack of existence. However, I haven\'t met the strong atheist yet who said\nthat nothing could ever persuade him. Call me a "seeker" if you like, I\ndon\'t. \n_Weak_ atheism is being ignore here, though. Some atheists simply say "I\ndon\'t believe in any god" rather than my position: "I believe that no\ngod(s) exist." For the weak atheist, the is no atheism to disbelieve,\nbecause they don\'t actively believe in atheism. (If you think this is\nconfusing, try figuring out the difference between Protestants and\nMethodists from an atheist point of view :).\nThis is another fallacy many theists seem to have, that everyone believes in\nsomething (followed up by "everyone has faith in something"). Guess what?\nMy atheism ends the moment I\'m shown a proof of some god\'s existence. Is\nthat really too much to ask?\n\n\n>Well, I don\'t even waste my time trying. \n\nWell, I guess you won\'t succeed in converting him or me. Why the\nsupposition that you will fail to convince him? (amatuer psycology on) Is\nit because you yourself are unconvinced? :) \n\n> I tell him that he\'ll just have to take my word for it.\nAnd I told you that I find faith to be intellectually dishonest. Note that\nI can only speak for myself. If you find faith to be honest, show me how.\nI have been unable to reconcile it so far. Maybe that\'s how I\'m "broken"?\nI tell you that I have invisible fairies living in my garden and that\nyou should just take my word for it. If you accept that, you are of a\nfundamentally different mind than I and I really would like to know how you\nthink. All I ask for is proof of the assertion "God exists". Logical or\nphysical proofs only, please. Then we\'ll discuss the nature of "God".\n\n>In response, he tells me he will say an "atheist\'s prayer" for me. \nPrayer?! Uh, oh, we\'ll have to revoke his atheist club card and beanie! :)\n\n>Good luck, Bob. And, best regards.\n\nGood luck to you, as well. And, again, I apologize if the inferences I\nmade were inaccurate. \n\n>-- \n>Randal Lee Nicholas Mandock \n>Catechist\n>gt7122b@prism.gatech.edu \n\nMuppets and garlic toast forever,\nMax (Bob) Muir\n\n\n[Note that abbreviation of quoted pasages is not always the fault\nof the poster. I sometimes do it in order to get a posting by\nthe 50% rule in inews. --clh]\n',
'From: mls@panix.com (Michael Siemon)\nSubject: Re: Homosexuality issues in Christianity\nOrganization: PANIX Public Access Unix, NYC\nLines: 97\n\nIn <May.13.02.31.16.1993.1569@geneva.rutgers.edu> djohnson@cs.ucsd.edu\n(Darin Johnson) writes:\n\n>Ok, what\'s more important to gay Christians? Sex, or Christianity?\n\nI\'m afraid I see that question as very tendentious. Try rephrasing it:\n\n\tWhat\'s more important to Christians? Love of God or love\n\tof other human beings?\n\nto which of course the only conceivable answer is that the one is like\nthe other. I am *deeply* suspicious of any "flavor" of Christianity\nwhich would elevate one clause of the Great Commandment to a "priority"\nover the other such as to claim a conflict. True, we are told to let\nthe dead bury the dead, to "hate" family rather than let it keep us from\nfollowing Christ. But the dichotomy here is not one between love of our\nfellows and love of God, but of allowing *social* constructs to blind us\nto the presense of God. It is particularly satanic to twist love of God\nin such a manner as to become an excuse to treat others as on a different\nlevel than the one who is so caught up in "love" of God.\n\nThe trouble comes in the relation of human love and human sex. Yes, it\nhas sometimes been the case that the Church has "taught" that all sex\nwas nasty, evil, sinful stuff. But when man and wife leave their parental\nhomes to become helpmates, living in one flesh, it is the sex that is the\nvehicle of becoming "one flesh" (if you doubt me, read St. Paul on what\nis wrong with frequenting prostitutes :-)). Less provocatively, what I\nmean is just this: sexual bonding is a deeply founded aspect of our social\ninteraction, and in particular is the foundation of the institution of\nmarriage, so that unlike with many mammals, human males remain with and\nfoster the children they beget and support their children\'s mothers.\nThis is the schema behind Genesis 2:18-24 (and behind Jesus\' citation of\nthat passage.)\n\n\t[ I observe, by the way, that not all human males in fact do as\n\t I have just described; but another thing that characterizes\n\t human societies is our raising of *non*begotten children, not\n\t only orphans and adoptees and the like, but products of the\n\t quite common infidelities of humans to their spouses. We are\n\t in this not unique in the animal world, but the full extent of\n\t social consequences and implications is most intricate for us. ]\n\nYes, of course it sometimes goes "wrong" -- like all else we do, it is\ninfected with sin, and you find married "couples" where there is no bond,\nand people so deliriously addicted to the initial stages of sexual bond\nformation (the "infatuation", "falling in love" phase) that they break\nany forming bond in order to keep stepping over the threshold of the deep\nunity God has prepared for us, and stepping back out again right away.\nSatan may indeed *use* sex as a very handy tool to corrupt human love --\nbut in the Edenic creation, that is not its nature, and with God\'s grace\nunder the power of Christ to make all things new it need not be a problem\nfor Christians (though we must be vigilant, even in Christ, as the devil\nis watchful, prowling around like a roaring lion seeking someone to devour.)\n\nSo, returning to the original question, what is more important to STRAIGHT\nChristians? Sex, or Christianity? Paul, clearly, tended to think that\nsex was at best a distraction from Christianity (though to be charitable\nto him, his context was in expectation of immediate parousia, so that the\nhard TASKS of a married union -- the lifelong building and adaptation to\neach other -- seemed somehow to undercut the "proper" preparation for an\nimmediate eschaton. Since we *do not* know the hour of return, we should\nact *both* with instant readiness for that *and* with a commitiment to our\nmates that proposes a long lifetime together. And telling people *not* to\nbond in such a perspective strikes me as crippling us in the second clause\nof the the commandment to love. I would claim that only a very few saints\nhave the CAPACITY to deeply love (without sexual tinges or complication,\nmind you) their fellow human beings unless they have had a deeply spiritual\nlife in married union growing together as one flesh -- and that means in\nthe type case, with a persistent and continued sexual relationship. We\nare human, and little good comes of trying to "mortify the flesh" to the\npoint of pretending to be otherwise, pretending NOT to be sexual beings.\n\n>Christianity I would hope. Would they be willing to forgo sex\n>completely, in order to avoid being a stumbling block to others,\n\nIt depends entirely on context. If that context is major hypocrisy\non the part of those who find us "stumbling blocks" I am much less of\na mind to efface myself so that they can pontificate about MY sins.\n\nThere are some people for whom a life of celibacy is a spritual gift,\nand maybe even a victory against a to-them troubling sexual urge that\nseems to them to lead only to sin. Nothing I say should ever be read\nas demeaning such a gift. Nor the even rarer gift of love for all our\nconspecifics, and indeed for all God\'s creation, that can develop to\nthe full *without* the tutoring of a spousal/helpmate marriage founded\nin sex. But there is a difference between spiritual gifts and penance;\ntelling people that they HAVE to have a particular gift (or else? what?)\nis fraught with manipulation and disregard of the differences of our\nspiritual endowments from God. To one person is given the gift of\nspeaking in toungues, to another intepretation of toungues; to yet\nanother prophecy; and to still another teaching. The notion that some\n*particular* gift is required of *all* is one of the earliest heresies.\n-- \nMichael L. Siemon\t\tI say "You are gods, sons of the\nmls@panix.com\t\t\tMost High, all of you; nevertheless\n - or -\t\t\tyou shall die like men, and fall\nmls@ulysses.att..com\t\tlike any prince." Psalm 82:6-7\n',
'From: hudson@athena.cs.uga.edu (Paul Hudson Jr)\nSubject: Re: Homosexuality issues in Christianity\nOrganization: University of Georgia, Athens\nLines: 11\n\nIn article <May.13.02.29.39.1993.1505@geneva.rutgers.edu> revdak@netcom.com (D. Andrew Kille) writes:\n> It was the manifestation of the spirit among the gentiles\n>that convinced Peter (Acts 10) that his prejudice against them (based on\n>scripture, I might add) was not in accordance with God\'s intentions.\n\nI would just like to point out that the particular command not to eat\nor fellowship with Gentiles is not found in the Old Testament. This\nwas part of the "hedge built around the law." It was a part of Peter\'s\ntradition, and not the Scripture.\n\nLink Hudson.\n',
'From: mharring@cch.coventry.ac.uk (MARTIN)\nSubject: Ftp Site(s) with GIFS\nNntp-Posting-Host: cc_sysh\nOrganization: Fire Walk With Me....\nLines: 11\n\nI have been looking around some Ftp sites and cannot find one with any good\nGIF files. Could someone please tell me of some Ftp sites which do posses\ngoods GIFS and a wide range.\n\nPlease EMAIL me at the address above.\n\nThanks\n\nMartin\n\n\n',
'From: sandvik@newton.apple.com (Kent Sandvik)\nSubject: Re: Christian Morality is\nOrganization: Cookamunga Tourist Bureau\nLines: 25\n\nIn article <pww-210493010443@spac-at1-59.rice.edu>, pww@spacsun.rice.edu\n(Peter > > Simple logic arguments are folly. If you read the Bible you\nwill see\n> > that Jesus made fools of those who tried to trick him with "logic".\n> > Our ability to reason is just a spec of creation. Yet some think it is\n> > the ultimate. If you rely simply on your reason then you will never\n> > know more than you do now. To learn you must accept that which\n> > you don\'t know.\n> \n> Can anyone eaplain what he\'s just said here?\n\nI can\'t. It seems Jesus used logic to make people using logic\nlook like fools? No, that does not sound right, he maybe just\ntold they were fools, and that\'s it, and people believed that...\nHmm, does not sound reasonable either...\n\nI find it always very intriguing to see people stating that\ntranscendental values can\'t be explained, and then in the\nnext sentence they try to explain these unexplained values.\nHighly strange.\n\nCheers,\nKent\n---\nsandvik@newton.apple.com. ALink: KSAND -- Private activities on the net.\n',
'From: Diane.Mayronne@f232.n109.z1.cobaka.com (Diane Mayronne)\nSubject: fever blisters\nLines: 5\n\nCause and cures for fever blisters respectfully requested.\nThanks!\n :-D iane\n\n * Origin: Another PerManNet Kit (1:109/232)\n',
'From: decay@cbnewsj.cb.att.com (dean.kaflowitz)\nSubject: Re: some thoughts.\nOrganization: AT&T\nDistribution: na\nLines: 26\n\nIn article <kmr4.1718.735827952@po.CWRU.edu>, kmr4@po.CWRU.edu (Keith M. Ryan) writes:\n> In article <C63AEC.FB3@cbnewsj.cb.att.com> decay@cbnewsj.cb.att.com (dean.kaflowitz) writes:\n> \n> >The "R Us" thing is trademarked. I don\'t know if Charles\n> >Lazarus is dead or alive, but I\'d be careful, because with\n> >a name like Lazarus, he might rise again just to start a\n> >lawsuit.\n> \n> \tThe "R Us" is not trademarked, but the "Backwards R Us" is, I \n> believe.\n\nYup, I think you\'re right. My mistake. Now, how do I make\nan "R" backwards using a computer keyboard?\n\nI\'ll bet the gods know how (this is alt.atheism, after\nall). Tell you what, if all my "R"s start coming out\nbackwards when I type from now on, I\'ll become a believer.\n\n(And that\'s not asking for miracles. If I asked for a miracle,\nI\'d ask for a real miracle, like for Pat Buchanan to become\nan out-of-the-closet drag queen - well...maybe that wouldn\'t be\nso miraculous, but I think he\'d look fabulous in a feather\nboa and a sequined hat like Mia Farrow wore in Gatsby.)\n\nDean Kaflowitz\n\n',
'From: stark@dwovax.enet.dec.com (Todd I. Stark)\nSubject: Re: Krillean Photography\nOrganization: Digital Equipment Corporation\nLines: 52\nDistribution: world\nNNTP-Posting-Host: DWOVAX\n\n\nIn article <1rjr1uINNh8@gap.caltech.edu>, carl@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU (Carl J Lydick) writes...\n>In article <1993Apr26.204319.11231@ultb.isc.rit.edu>, eas3714@ultb.isc.rit.edu (E.A. Story) writes:\n>=In article <1rgrsvINNmpr@gap.caltech.edu> carl@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU writes:\n>=>Greg:Flame definitely intended here. Bill was making fun of the misspelling. \n>=>Go look up the word "krill." Also, the correct spelling is Kirlian. It\n>=>involves taking photographs of corona discharges created by attaching the\n>=>subject to a high-voltage source, not of some "aura." It works equally well\n>=>with inanimate objects.\n>=\n>=True.. but what about showing the missing part of a leaf? Is this\n>="corona discharge"?\n> \n>Yup. The demonstration to which you refer consists of placing a leaf between\n>the plates, and taking a Kirlian photograph of it. You then cut off part of\n>the leaf, put the top plate back on, and take another Kirlian photograph. You\n>see pretty much the same image in both cases. Turns out the effect isn\'t\n>nearly so striking if you take the trouble to clean the plates between\n>photographs. Seems that the moisture from the leaf that you left on the place\n>conducts electricity. Surprise, surprise!\n\n\tThis is true, but it\'s not quite the whole story. There were \n\tactually some people who were more careful in their methodology\n\twho also replicated the \'phantom leaf effect.\'\n\n One of the most influential critics of Kirlian Electrophotography\n is a Theosophist (and threfore presumably willing to entertain the\n hypothesis of scientific evidence for a human aura, electromagnetic\n or otherwise), professor of electrical engineering at London\'s\n City University, and a past president of the Society for Psychic Research \n named A. J. Ellison.\n\n After years of studying the method and the claims, Ellison\n came to the conclusion that the photographic images are what we\n calls \'Lichtenberg Figures,\' an effect of intermittent ionization of\n the air around the object. It\'s a bit more complicated than\n \'not wiping off the plates,\' but it comes down to the same thing\n in the end, Kirlian electrophotography has much more limited\n value (if any) than was previously widely thought. Electrical and\n magnetic fields generated by the body are much too small to be\n of much use diagnostically without very elaborate equipment and\n usually also tracer chemicals.\n\n\t\t\t\t\tkind regards,\n\n\t\t\t\t\ttodd\n+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+\n| Todd I. Stark\t\t\t\t stark@dwovax.enet.dec.com |\n| Digital Equipment Corporation\t\t (215) 542-3573 |\n| Philadelphia, Pa. USA |\n| "(A word is) the skin of a living thought" Oliver Wendell Holmes, Jr. |\n+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+\n',
'From: esd3@po.CWRU.Edu (Elisabeth S. Davidson)\nSubject: Re: Candida(yeast) Bloom, Fact or Fiction\nReply-To: esd3@po.CWRU.Edu (Elisabeth S. Davidson)\nOrganization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)\nLines: 44\nNNTP-Posting-Host: thor.ins.cwru.edu\n\n\nIn a previous article, banschbach@vms.ocom.okstate.edu () says:\n>least a few "enlightened" physicians practicing in the U.S. It\'s really \n>too bad that most U.S. medical schools don\'t cover nutrition because if \n>they did, candida would not be viewed as a non-disease by so many in the \n>medical profession.\n\nCase Western Reserve Med School teaches nutrition in its own section as\nwell as covering it in other sections as they apply (i.e. B12\ndeficiency in neuro as a cause of neuropathy, B12 deficiency in\nhematology as a cause of megaloblastic anemia), yet I sill\nhold the viewpoint of mainstream medicine: candida can cause\nmucocutaneous candidiasis, and, in already very sick patients\nwith damaged immune systems like AIDS and cancer patients,\nsystemic candida infection. I think "The Yeast Connection" is\na bunch of hooey. What does this have to do with how well\nnutrition is taught, anyway?\n>\n>Here is a brief primer on yeast. Yeast infections, as they are commonly \n>called, are not truely caused by yeasts. The most common organism responsible\n>for this type of infection is Candida albicans or Monilia which is actually a \n>yeast-like fungus. \n\nWell, maybe I\'m getting picky, but I always thought that a yeast\nwas one form that a fungus could exist in, the other being the\nmold form. Many fungi can occur as either yeasts or molds, \ndepending on environment. Candida exibits what is known as\nreverse dimorphism - it exists as a mold in the tissues\nbut exists as a yeast in the environment. Should we maybe\ncall it a mold infection? a fungus infection? Maybe we\nshould say it is caused by a mold-like fungus.\n \n> \n>Martin Banschbach, Ph.D.\n>Professor of Biochemistry and Chairman\n>Department of Biochemistry and Microbiology\n>OSU College of Osteopathic Medicine\n>1111 West 17th St.\n>Tulsa, Ok. 74107\n>\n\nYou\'re the chairman of Biochem and Micro and you didn\'t know \nthat a yeast is a form of a fungus? (shudder)\nOr maybe you did know, and were oversimplifying?\n',
'From: JEK@cu.nih.gov\nSubject: legal definition of religion\nLines: 31\n\nEdgar Pearlstein asks (Fri 7 May 1993) whether the Supreme Court, or\nany other government authority, has attempted a legal definition of\nreligion.\n\nThe Universal Military Training and Service Act of 1958 exempted\nfrom the draft those whose "religious training and belief" was\nopposed to participation in war in any form. It defined "R T & B" as\n"an individual\'s belief in a relation to a Supreme Being involving\nduties superior to those arising from any human relation, but [not\nincluding] essentially political, sociological, or philosophical\nviews or a merely personal moral code."\n\nIn the 1965 case of UNITED STATES V. SEEGER, the Supreme Court\nbroadened the definition so as not to restrict it to explicit\ntheists. Justice Tom Clark, delivering the Court\'s opinion, said:\n\n We have concluded that Congress, in using the expression "Supreme\n Being" rather than the designation "God," .... the test of belief\n "in a relation to a Superme Being" is whether a given belief that\n is sincere and meaningful occupies a place in the life of its\n possessor parallel to that filled by the orthodox belief in God\n of one who clearly qualifies for the exemption. Where such\n beliefs have parallel positions in the lives of their respective\n holders we cannot say that one is "in a relation to a Supreme\n Being" and the other is not...."\n\nMy immediate reference is THE FIRST FREEDOM, by Nat Hentoff,\n(Delacorte 1980, Dell 1981).\n\n Yours,\n James Kiefer\n',
'From: menon@boulder.Colorado.EDU (Ravi or Deantha Menon)\nSubject: Re: Need info on Circumcision, medical cons and pros\nNntp-Posting-Host: beagle.colorado.edu\nOrganization: University of Colorado, Boulder\nLines: 29\n\ntexx@ossi.com ("Texx") writes:\n\n>Scene: Navy boot camp\n\n>DI:\t\t"Son, you smel awful! Dont you ever clean that thing?"\n>Recruit:\t"No Sir !"\n>DI:\t\t"Why the hell NOT!"\n>Recruit:\t"Your not sposed to touch down there?"\n>DI:\t\t"Why ?"\n>Recruit:\t"Cause thats the eye of god down there, an\' your not s\'posed to touch it..."\n\n>This did not happen 40 years ago, it happened 2 years ago.\n\n>I think Americans are QUITE hung up about sex and the involved plumbing!\n\nCute anecdote, but hardly indicative of the population. From the responses\nI\'ve received to that post (all from men, by the way) I get the impression\nthat unless a person is willing to drop down and masturbate whenever the\nneed or desire strikes, then that person is very hung up on sex.\n\nWith tv programs about "boobs" (Seinfeld) and "masturbation (again Seinfeld)\nand with condoms being handed out in high schools and with the teenage\npregnancy rate and the high abortion rate here in the States, I would\nnot assume that we American\'s are frightened of sex. Rather we are a bit\nstupid about it. Healthy sexuality does not require flamboyance or\npromiscuity. It requires responsibility.\n\n\nDeantha\n',
'From: mmm@cup.portal.com (Mark Robert Thorson)\nSubject: Re: WE CAN SUPPLY YOU WITH THE TRANSPLANTANTS & OTHER\nOrganization: The Portal System (TM)\nDistribution: world\nLines: 1\n\nHarvested to order?\n',
'From: nyeda@cnsvax.uwec.edu (David Nye)\nSubject: Re: Amusing atheists and agnostics\nOrganization: University of Wisconsin Eau Claire\nLines: 31\n\n[reply to timmbake@mcl.ucsb.edu (Bake Timmons]\n \n>...the same kind of ignorance is demonstrated in just about every post\n>in this newsgroup. For instance, generalizations about Christianity\n>are popular.\n \nWhich newsgroup have you been reading? The few anti-Christian posts are\nvirtually all in response to some Christian posting some "YOU WILL ALL\nBURN IN HELL" kind of drivel.\n \n>I\'m a soft atheist (courtesy of the FAQ), but even I know enough about\n>the Bible to see that it repeatedly warns of false prophets preaching\n>in the name of God.\n \nBake, it is transparently obvious that you are a theist pretending to be\nan atheist. You probably think you are very clever, but we see this all\nthe time.\n \n>But the possibilities of creator and eternity carry with them too much\n>emotional power to dismiss merely on the basis of this line.\n \nBut of course *you* have dismissed them because you are an atheist,\nright?\n \n>...just like any other religion, hard atheism is a faith.\n \nIn other words, you *didn\'t* read the FAQ after all.\n \nDavid Nye (nyeda@cnsvax.uwec.edu). Midelfort Clinic, Eau Claire WI\nThis is patently absurd; but whoever wishes to become a philosopher\nmust learn not to be frightened by absurdities. -- Bertrand Russell\n',
'From: mou@nova1.stanford.edu (Alex Mou)\nSubject: cure for dry skin?\nOrganization: Stanford University\nLines: 17\nDistribution: world\nNNTP-Posting-Host: nova1.stanford.edu\n\nHi all,\n\nMy skin is very dry in general. But the most serious part is located\nfrom knees down. The skin there looks like segmented. The segmentation\nactually happens beneath the skin. I would like to know if there is any\ncure for this.\n\nAt the supermarkets or pharmacies, there are quite a lot of stuffs for\ndry skins, but what to chose?\n\nThanks in advance for all advices and hints.\n\nReply by email preferred.\n\nAlex\n\n\n',
'From: Rick_Granberry@pts.mot.com (Rick Granberry)\nSubject: Boston C of C\nReply-To: Rick_Granberry@pts.mot.com (Rick Granberry)\nOrganization: Motorola Paging and Telepoint Systems Group\nLines: 263\n\nNote: the following article is submitted on behalf of someone (Frank \ndaniels) who has difficulty posting to s.r.c, email replies to \ndaniels@math.ufl.edu\n\n\tI am unable to post to the bitnet groups.\n\tHere is a capsule history of the Shepherding/Discipleship Movement in\nthe Churches of Christ (i.e. Crossroads/Boston):\n\n\tI could trace the Movement back as far as 1800, and indeed some of its\nroots go back that far, but these were really "influences" on the Movement,\nand not the actual movement, per se.\n\tI will start in c.1920.\n\tIn that day, there were \'white\' churches and \'colored\' churches in\nnearly every area (due to segregation). Modern Pentecostalism was developing\nas a predominantly \'colored\' phenomenon. Here, there was great fanaticism,\nemphasis on emotional experiences, and belief in a personal guidance and\nindwelling of the Holy Spirit.\n\tMany \'white\' Protestant churches were growing into what became known\nas conservative fundamentalism. By the 1940s, the evangelical movement was\nin full swing, and many groups were becoming part of it.\n\tWhen the civil rights movement grew stronger (in the 1950\'s and \n1960\'s),\nmany \'white\' church groups began to be influenced by the \'black\' churches and\nby what was going on there. This spread started in the most liberal of groups\nand spread to the more conservative ones by the late \'60\'s. In 1969, even the\nCatholic Church was displaying evidence of influence by the other \ngroups...still\nevident today.\n\n\tThe Churches of Christ are (and were) a very conservative Protestant\ngroup. When the influence from outside began to reach the CofC in c.1965, it\nwas generally not appreciated. Conservative groups are very strongly \nresistant\nto change, and the new movement was VERY different from the CofC status quo.\n\tThe magazines put out at that time by CofC folks tell the story as it\nunfolds. New ideas came into the CofC. There was a big push to reach out to\ncollege students, young adults, and teens. Some called this the Campus \nEvangel-\nism Movement. Emotions, generally not highly regarded in the CofC at large,\nplayed a more important role in the new movement. In some places, people \nbegan\nto speak in tongues (as their Pentecostal predecessors did).\n\tThis was met with extreme criticism from within the Churches of \nChrist.\nIn some places, people were fired from their jobs for speaking in tongues or \nfor\nadvocating the "Holy Spirit Movement", another name for the new branch. The\nterm "Underground Church of Christ" also came into use because these people \nhad\nto hide their differences (or they might be ostricised).\n\tThere were several congregations, however, whose leaderships were\nreceptive to the new ideas (at least in part; the tongues-speaking never \nreally\ncaught on). One of these was the 14th Street Church of Christ in Gainesville,\nFL. Campus Ministry had already been regarded as important at 14th Street, \nand\nthe new ideas seemed to be very helpful tools for evangelism. They also \nseemed\nto put vitality into the church, which many felt had been lacking.\n\tIn October of 1967, the 14th Street congregation hired Chuck Lucas to\nbe its Campus Minister. By 1970, he would move to being the congregation\'s\n(lead) Minister. In the late 60\'s/early 70\'s, the congregation worked with \nmany\nother groups. They held Bible discussions at Daytona Beach during Spring \nBreak.\nThey organized talks in the fraternities on the University of Florida campus.\nThey also worked with UF sports people.\n\tIn 1972, the congregation ordered a larger building to be constructed.\nWhen it was finished, the group moved and changed its name (now no longer\nappropriate). It became the Crossroads Church of Christ from then on, a name\nthat would become legendary.\n\n\tBy this time, Crossroads was basically the only CofC whose programs\nwere fully aligned to the new movement. While they didn\'t start it, they \ncontinued it and were responsible for where it wound up going.\n\tBy 1975, none of the other Churches of Christ in the area felt that\nthey could cooperate with Crossroads, due to what they recognized as doctrinal\nproblems at Crossroads.\n\tCrossroads had begun to heavily emphasize, and later require \nattendance\nat all church functions. It was seen as a good thing for each member to have\nat least one close relationship, a person with whom you would share all of\nyour problems, pray, and get help from. The concept was called Prayer \nPartners,\nwhich later became Discipleship Partners and also later became mandatory. The\nleadership was assigning prayer partners to people for a while.\n\tThe book called "The Master Plan of Evangelism" was a strong influence\non Chuck Lucas. He (and the group) believed that it was every person\'s duty\nand life purpose to carry out the great commission. Crossroads was growing\nin number, and numbers became VERY important (some would say all-important).\n\tA person who "was evangelistic" was "spiritual". Evangelism meant\ninviting people to Crossroads events; if you did this a lot and some of them\nconverted, then you were "spiritual". There were sermons about how if you\nbought groceries, the cashier and bag boy ought to receive invitations to\nservices. Everyone at your job ought to receive invitations. Since these\npeople needed Jesus, you should be "aggressive"--don\'t take \'no\' for an\nanswer.\n\tIf you did not evangelize enough, you came to be called "lazy" or\n"unspiritual".\n\tBy the end of the decade, the Prayer Partner system was integrated \ninto\na structure. The Elders and Ministers were on top (like a big pyramid). Then\nthe group leaders, Bible study leaders, and members. Everyone who came in had\nsomeone placed over them.\n\tIt is at this time, 1978-1980, that the bad press about Crossroads\nbegan to circulate. The problem with rape on the University of Florida campus\nwas tremendous, but Crossroads was considered a bigger and more immediate\nproblem. There were many complaints about the congregation and its "pushy"\nevangelistic tactics. Crossroads was considering the other Churches of Christ\nto be "dead" churches, which aggravated them; it was aggressively recruiting\nout of the other church groups (denominations), which aggravated THEM.\n\n\tBy this time, Crossroads had grown numerically to the point (1100)\nwhere not only did they believe that they would soon need a new building, but\nalso they were sending out "planting" [create a new church] and \n"reconstructing"\n[reorganize an existing church] teams to other cities. By this time, the\nCrossroads Movement was underway.\n\tA group was sent to the 30-member Lexington Church of Christ in \nBoston,\nMA. The team was headed up by Kip McKean, who had been converted out of a\nfraternity by Crossroads (in Gainesville). Kip held a still stronger view of\nchurch authority, which he believed was heavily vested in the Evangelist(s),\nand not so much in the Elders. He had been fired in 1977 from the \ncongregation\nthat he had been working at when the elders there found numerous things wrong\nwith his theology, including the practice of what came to be called one-over-\none\nChristianity. [Called this by critics]\n\tIn the first year, half of the 30 people felt that they did not want \nto\nbe a part of the new congregation. They left. But others began coming into\nthe new Boston Church of Christ.\n\tAh, but I\'m ahead of myself.\n\tAt Crossroads, the heavy-handed system had begun to take its toll on\nthe members. Many have said that they felt that they were working hard, but\nthey were not achieving the results that were so important. The numbers were\ndropping. From 1978, Crossroads membership declined steadily. The leadership\nbegan to tighten the reigns on the congregation, who was seen as being largely\n"unproductive" and "unfruitful". The "fruit" passages in the NT were \ninterpreted\nas referring to new converts. If you were not bearing fruit, said John 15, \nyou\nwould be cast into the fire! [Boston still teaches this.]\n\tIf you love your neighbor, you\'ll save his soul (invite him to church\nand convert him). If you\'re not doing that, you don\'t love your neighbor.\nAnd if you don\'t love, you\'re in danger of backsliding. The logical arguments\ncontinue in this vein.\n\tIn 1985, Chuck Lucas was fired from his job as minister, due to \nrecurring\nsins in his life. These struggles were never revealed to the congregation at\nlarge, although many people outside the congregation had heard about them. \nFor\nby now, there was very little contact (on a friendship level) between most\nCrossroads members and those outside. [If you have contact, your focus should\nbe on converting them. Bring them to a Bible Study.]\n\tChuck\'s replacement was Joe Woods, who was fully supportive of the\nBoston system. As Boston grew in number, they began to offer \'training\' \nsessions\nfor other ministers. Joe went to Boston to be trained and returned to Cross-\nroads ready to emphasize the "total commitment" to the church that Boston and\nKip McKean were now emphasizing. Eventually, in Fall of 1987, the Elders at \nCrossroads (now 2 in number--Dick Whitehead and Bill Hogle) made a decision.\nBoston was demanding that all of the other churches in the movement come under\nthe direction of the church in Boston. The Elders refused, citing their \nbelief\nthat each church should be autonomous (something true in all non-Boston \nChurches\nof Christ). Perhaps there was also some degree of offense done here, since\nCrossroads was no longer the \'example\' to the rest of the Movement. The group\nnow numbered about 800, while Boston was now larger (in membership).\n\tThe Churches of Christ generally teach that baptism is a necessary\nelement of salvation. At Crossroads, they taught what was called \'Lordship\'\nbaptism: you had to understand the commitment involved before you could be\nbaptized. You had to \'count the cost\'. At Boston, they took this a step\nfurther. If at some time you became "unproductive", then your spirituality\nwas suspect. People would begin to ask you if you REALLY understood what you\nwere getting into. Anyone who said \'no\' had their baptism deemed invalid: \nthey\nhadn\'t counted the cost properly. They still had to be baptized. Others \ncalled\nthis "rebaptism", and Crossroads didn\'t approve of this practice.\n\tWhen Crossroads announced that it would not follow Boston, many of its\nmembers left Crossroads and went to Movement-related ministries, which were\nnow called Discipling Ministries. You were either discipling (evangelizing) \nor\nyou were "dead". They also used the nickname "Movement of God" for a while.\n\tBy Summer of 1988, Crossroads was withdrawn from the Movement and now\nstood alone. They had few to no allies in the mainstream Churches of Christ,\nand now none in the Movement.\n\n\tBoston, however, continued to chart its course in the direction that\nthey had been following. They sent "reconstruction teams" to many cities, \nwhich\nusually meant that they split the church there. They stopped acknowledging \nother\nchurches of Christ as Christians and began to call themselves the "remnant".\nThe "remnant" of the Jews in the OT are those who are saved by God. It was\nfelt that the "remnant" today represents all the Christians. Sometimes they\nwould simply call their Movement "the church".\n\tThey usually took the name of the city for their name, implying to the\nother Churches of Christ that Boston did not recognize their existence. Many\ncampuses have now formally forbidden Boston ministries from recruiting there\ndue to the number of complaints. In some cases, it has been documented that\nBoston ministries have lied to University officials in order to continue to \nhave\naccess to the campus. Any resistance that they experience is termed "perse-\ncution", which all true Christians are expected to experience. Are you really\na Christian if you\'re not being persecuted?\n\tThe numbers at Boston peaked at c.3000 in 1989. Since then, they have\nfought to remain steady. I have heard a tape of Kip McKean shouting at the\nleaders for failing to fulfill the Great Commission (their life\'s purpose) as\nGod commanded them. Their Christianity is highly centered on commands and\nobedience.\n\n\tCrossroads once was called a cult. Boston is now recognized by the\nCult Awareness Network and other national and international groups as a cult,\nunder a formal definition, because of the techniques which they employ. The\nterm "cult" is usually differentiated from "sect" by the practice of those\ntechniques. The techniques which they employ are recognized by many as being\ntechniques of destructive pursuasion, also used by other Shepherding\nDiscipleship groups. [Robert Jay Lifton, Margaret Thaler Singer, and many\nothers have written about the topic.] These techniques include guilt \nmotivation,\nemotional manipulation, loaded language, the aura of sacred science (a sort\nof mystic element seen in everyday events), and others.\n\n\tI have no particular axe to grind against the Movement. I have numer-\nous friends who are still part of the Movement. I have never had a \'falling\nout\' with anyone in the Movement. I disagree with many things which they \nteach.\nI recognize the psychological damage done by being involved in such a system.\nI hold no loyalty to the mainstream Churches of Christ and do not defend their\nmistakes either.\n\tI want to point out, though, that unlike in many other systems which\nare in other ways similar, the Leadership of the Boston Movement are as much\nvictims of the system as the members. We do not have a leader who enjoys\nmanipulating his people. The leaders believe what they teach, and they feel\naccountable for the activites (and spiritual welfare) of the members. When\nmembers do not evangelize to their expectations, for example, the leaders feel\npersonally responsible as well. The leaders are not out for money or power.\nThey want to evangelize the world in their lifetime.\n\n\tI have said too much, but there is much more to say. There are many\nexamples I could give and quotes from other sources (including Boston \nbulletins)\nthat I could include. But this is too long already. You may post this if\nyou so desire.\n\t\t\t\t\t\tFrank D.\n\n\n\n| "Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him." |\n| "Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own conceit." |\n| (proverbs 26:4&5)\n\n\n[Believe it or not, questions about the Boston Church of Christ are\namong the most commonly asked. In order to avoid having s.r.c.\ndealing with this on a continuous basis, I allow discussion only\nperiodically. By now I\'ve got a 150K FAQ file (which has both sides,\nby the way). This gives enough addition information on history that\nit seems worth posting and adding to the FAQ. --clh]\n',
'From: ldo@waikato.ac.nz (Lawrence D\'Oliveiro, Waikato University)\nSubject: QuickTime performance (was Re: Rumours about 3DO ???)\nOrganization: University of Waikato, Hamilton, New Zealand\nLines: 67\n\nOK, with all the discussion about observed playback speeds with QuickTime,\nthe effects of scaling and so on, I thought I\'d do some more tests.\n\nFirst of all, I felt that my original speed test was perhaps less than\nrealistic. The movie I had been using only had 18 frames in it (it was a\nversion of the very first movie I created with the Compact Video compressor).\nI decided something a little longer would give closer to real-world results\n(for better or for worse).\n\nI pulled out a copy of "2001: A Space Odyssey" that I had recorded off TV\na while back. About fifteen minutes into the movie, there\'s a sequence where\nthe Earth shuttle is approaching the space station. Specifically, I digitized\na portion of about 30 seconds\' duration, zooming in on the rotating space\nstation. I figured this would give a reasonable amount of movement between\nframes. To increase the differences between frames, I digitized it at only\n5 frames per second, to give a total of 171 frames.\n\nI captured the raw footage at a resolution of 384*288 pixels with the Spigot\ncard in my Centris 650 (quarter-size resolution from a PAL source). I then\nimported it into Premiere and put it through the Compact Video compressor,\nkeeping the 5 fps frame rate. I created two versions of the movie: one scaled\nto 320*240 resolution, the other at 160*120 resolution. I used the default\n"2.00" quality setting in Premiere 2.0.1, and specified a key frame every ten\nframes.\n\nI then ran the 320*240 movie through the same "Raw Speed Test" program I used\nfor the results I\'d been reporting earlier.\n\nResult: a playback rate of over 45 frames per second.\n\nThat\'s right, I was getting a much higher result than with that first short\ntest movie. Just for fun, I copied the 320*240 movie to my external hard\ndisk (a Quantum LP105S), and ran it from there. This time the playback rate\nwas only about 35 frames per second. Obviously the 230MB internal hard disk\n(also a Quantum) is a significant contributor to the speed of playback.\n\nI modified my speed test program to allow the specification of optional\nscaling factors, and tried playing back the 160*120 movie scaled to 320*240\nsize. This time the playback speed was over 60 fps. Clearly, the poster who\nobserved poor performance on scaled playback was seeing QuickTime 1.0 in\naction, not 1.5. I\'d try my tests with QuickTime 1.0, but I don\'t think it\'s\nentirely compatible with my Centris and System 7.1...\n\nUnscaled, the playback rate for the 160*120 movie was over 100 fps.\n\nThe other thing I tried was saving versions of the 320*240 movie with\n"preferred" playback rates greater than 1.0, and seeing how well they played\nfrom within MoviePlayer (ie with QuickTime\'s normal synchronized playback).\nA preferred rate of 9.0 (=> 45 fps) didn\'t work too well: the playback was\nvery jerky. Compare this with the raw speed test, which achieved 45 fps with\nease. I can\'t believe that QuickTime\'s synchronization code would add this\nmuch overhead: I think the slowdown was coming from the Mac system\'s task\nswitching.\n\nA preferred rate of 7.0 (=> 35 fps) seemed to work fine: I couldn\'t see\nany evidence of stutter. At 8.0 (=> 40 fps) I *think* I could see slight\nstutter, but with four key frames every second, it was hard to tell.\n\nI guess I could try recreating the movies with a longer interval between the\nkey frames, to make the stutter more noticeable. Of course, this will also\nimprove the compression slightly, which should speed up the playback performance\neven more...\n\nLawrence D\'Oliveiro fone: +64-7-856-2889\nComputer Services Dept fax: +64-7-838-4066\nUniversity of Waikato electric mail: ldo@waikato.ac.nz\nHamilton, New Zealand 37^ 47\' 26" S, 175^ 19\' 7" E, GMT+12:00\n',
'From: dan@ingres.com (a Rose arose)\nSubject: Re: earthquake prediction\nOrganization: Representing my own views here.\nLines: 75\n\nmserv@mozart.cc.iup.edu (Mail Server) writes:\n: Ok, a few days back, the below-included message was posted stating: \n: \n: > I believe with everything in my heart that on May 3, 1993, the city of\n: >Portland, Oregon in the country of the United States of America will be hit\n: >with a catastrophic and disastrous earthquake...\n: \n: By now, we know that this did not come to pass....\n: \n: ...I don\'t think it\'s particularly \n: glorifying to God to say things like "Well, I THINK the Lord is telling me...", \n: ..Such statements seem to me to be an attempt to get a spiritual thrill should \n: the guess happen to come true, without risking the guilt of false prophecy \n: should it fail to come to pass. I do not believe genuine prophecy was ever \n: like this. Comments?\n: \n\nI agree. People should not be misled to believe "thus sayeth the Lord" by\ninnuendo or opinion or speculation.\n\nSpeak directly. If the Lord has given you something to say, say it.\nBut, before I declare "thus sayeth the Lord", I\'d better know for certain\nwithout a shadow of a doubt that I am in the correct spiritual condition\nand relationship with the Lord to receive such a prophecy and be absolutely\ncertain, again, without the tiniest shadow of a doubt that there is no\npossibility of my being misled by my own imaginations or by my hope of gaining\nrecognition or of being misled by the wiles of the devil and his followers.\n\nMistakes in this area are costly and dangerous. For me, my greatest fears\nin this area would be the following:\n\n1--that the people would be misled\n2--that people would lose respect for christianity\n3--that true prophecy would be clouded by all the false prophecies\n4--were God to call me to be a prophet and I were to misrepresent God\'s Word,\n my calling would be lost forever. God\'s Word would command the people\n never to listen to or fear my words as I would be a false prophet. My\n bridges would be burnt forever. Perhaps I could repent and be saved, but\n I could never again be a prophet of God.\n\nIn the light of this, it is critical that we speak when the Lord says speak\nand that we be silent when the Lord says to be silent lest we deprive the\nworld of God\'s Word and hide it under a bushel either by our inappropriate,\ncowardly silence or by our false statements. And because of this, it\nis critically important that we remain close to the Lord, in His Word, and\nin prayer, and filled with the Spirit of God so that we know the difference.\n\nIn this day and age, sinners spout off their mouths left and right judging\none another, claiming "rights" that are not theirs, denying rights that do\nindeed belong to others, demanding equal respect for all the "gods" of this\nworld, and uttering every form of falseness that promises to make one feel\ngood.\n\nIt\'s time that we christians give an example of honesty that stands out in\ncontrast against this backdrop of falsehood. When we say, "thus sayeth the\nLord", it happens. When we pray, prayer is answered because we prayed right.\nWhen we say we\'re christians, we really mean it.\n\n Dan\n\n--\n-----------------------------------------------------------------------\n\t"I deplore the horrible crime of child murder...\n\t We want prevention, not merely punishment.\n\t We must reach the root of the evil...\n\t It is practiced by those whose inmost souls revolt\n\t from the dreadful deed...\n\t No mater what the motive, love of ease,\n\t\tor a desire to save from suffering the unborn innocent,\n\t\tthe woman is awfully guilty who commits the deed...\n\t but oh! thrice guilty is he who drove her\n\t\tto the desperation which impelled her to the crime."\n\n\t\t- Susan B. Anthony,\n\t\t The Revolution July 8, 1869\n',
"Organization: University of Illinois at Chicago, academic Computer Center\nFrom: <U18183@uicvm.uic.edu>\nSubject: Re: Chromium for weight loss\nLines: 18\n\n There is no data to show chromium is effective in promoting weight loss. The\n few studies that have been done using chromium have been very flawed and inher\nently biased (the investigators were making money from marketing it).\n Theoretically it really doesnt make sense either. The claim is that chromium\nwill increase muscle mass and decrease fat. Of course, chromium is also used t\no cure diabetes, high blood pressure and increase muscle mass in athletes(just\nas well as anabolic steroids). Sounds like snake oil for the 1990's :-)\n On the other hand, it really cant hurt you anywhere but your wallet, and place\nbo effects of anything can be pretty dramatic...\n\n -Paul\n ----------------------------------------------------------\n | Paul Sovcik, Pharm.D. U of Illinois College of Pharmacy |\n | |\n | Email- U18183@UICVM.UIC.EDU |\n | |\n ----------------------------------------------------------\n\n",
"From: holzapfe@jocki.NoSubdomain.NoDomain (Roland Holzapfel)\nSubject: Re: Tom Gaskins Pexlib vs Phigs Programming Manuals (O'Reilly)\nReply-To: holzapfe@igd.fhg.de\nOrganization: Zentrum fuer Graphische Datenverarbeitung, 6100 Darmstadt, Germany\nLines: 33\n\n\nIn article <1rb22k$l7v@neuro.usc.edu>, merlin@neuro.usc.edu (merlin) writes:\n|> Could someone explain the difference between Tom Gaskins' two books:\n|> \n|> o PEXLIB Programming Manual\n|> o PHIGS Programming Manual\n|> \n|> Why would I want to buy one book vs the other book? I have an 80386\n\nPEXLIB and PHIGS (as it comes from MIT with PEX and as is explained in the\nPHIGS Programming Manual) are just different API's for the PEX protocol,\nwhich is an extension to the X protocol.\n\nSo it depends on You, what you go to use.\n\nAdvantage of Phigs is the protability to other platforms (IBM GraPhigs, \nSunPhigs) and the standardized structuring of the 3D objects.\n\nAdvantage of PEXlib is the sometimes faster and easier programming for\nimmediate mode graphics, because PEX is not an exactly mapping of Phigs\nto a Prortocol.\n\n-- \n \\|/\n (o o)\n -oOO--(_)--OOo--------------------------------------------------------\n \\\\ Roland Holzapfel Computer email: //\n \\\\ Wilhelminenstrasse 7 Graphics holzapfe@igd.fhg.de //\n // 6100 Darmstadt Center phone: \\\\\n // Germany (ZGDV) ++49 6151 155150 \\\\\n -----------------------------------------------------------------------\n >> This space intentionally left blank <<\n -----------------------------------------------------------------------\n",
'From: mayne@pipe.cs.fsu.edu (William Mayne)\nSubject: Re: Alleged Deathbed Conversions (was: Asimov stamp)\nOrganization: Florida State University Computer Science Department\nReply-To: mayne@cs.fsu.edu\nLines: 32\n\nIn article <sheafferC63zt0.Brs@netcom.com> sheaffer@netcom.com (Robert Sheaffer) writes:\n>\n>It had to happen: the old allegation of the "deathbed conversion" of the\n>noted unbeliever... [other examples]\n>What all of these "deathbed conversion"\n>claims have in common is that they are utterly unsubstantiated, and\n>almost certainly untrue.\n\nI would not be too quick to say that they are almost certainly untrue.\nEven strong minded people may fall back on childhood indoctrination,\ngrasp at straws, or do other strange things when faced with extreme\nsuffering, not to mention physiological problems which may lead to\ndiminished mental capacity.\n\nAt the risk of restarting an old argument and accusations of appeal to\nauthority I remind readers of what I posted a while back as a kind of\nobituary for the late atheist Dr. Albert Sabin. In an old interview\nrebroadcast on public radio just after his death he told about a time\na few years before when he was stricken with a very serious illness.\nHe admitted to having cried out to God while critically ill and on a\nrespirator. As it turned out he recovered and lived several more years.\nAfter his recovery he attributed this to early indoctrination. Don\'t say\nit couldn\'t happen to you, or that it hasn\'t happened to others, even if\nyou are one of the few people who have experienced things like this.\nPeople are different. I admire Dr. Sabin for admitting his human weakness\nin that instance. I would not think less of Asimov for similar weakness.\n\nNevertheless I agree that these reports are unsubstantiated and may\nwell be untrue. In any case they are not evidence for anything besides\nthe power of early indoctrination and human frailty.\n\nBill Mayne\n',
'From: dclunie@pax.tpa.com.au (David Clunie)\nSubject: Re: Easy to translate JPEG code...\nOrganization: Her Master\'s Voice\nLines: 22\nDistribution: world\nReply-To: dclunie@pax.tpa.com.au\nNNTP-Posting-Host: britt.pax.tpa.com.au\n\nIn article 1rfsqbINNc2p@shelley.u.washington.edu, stusoft@hardy.u.washington.edu (Stuart Denman) writes:\n\n>Does anyone out there have any JPEG decompression code in pretty much any\n>language that I can read and understand? I have trouble understanding the\n>JPEG Group\'s code that I got from an FTP site. If any one can send me\n>some good code, I will appreciate it a lot! Thanks!\n\nThe problem is that the process is inherently complicated ! The IJG\'s code is\npretty good if you ask me, and I have watched it go through many many cycles of\nrevision.\n\nTry getting a good book on the subject, that will explain the algorithms.\n\nSpecifically "JPEG Still Image Compression Standard" by Pennebaker & Mitchell,\nVNR 1993, ISBN 0-442-01272-1.\n\nBTW. I presume your comment about "good" code wasn\'t meant to sound as offensive\nas it does.\n\n---\nDavid A. Clunie (dclunie@pax.tpa.com.au)\n\n',
'From: mdw33310@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Michael D. Walker)\nSubject: Re: Mary\'s assumption\nOrganization: University of Illinois at Urbana\nLines: 69\n\nmpaul@unl.edu (marxhausen paul) writes:\n\n>I hate to sound flippant, having shot off my mouth badly on the net\n>before, but I\'m afraid that much of this material only adds to my\n>feeling that "the assumption of Mary" would be better phrased "our\n>assumptions _about_ Mary." In all the time I\'ve been reading about\n>Mary on this group, I can not recall reading much about Mary that\n>did not sound like wishful veneration with scant, if any, Scriptural\n>foundation. \n\n>I find in the New Testament a very real portrait of Christ\'s parents\n>as compellingly human persons; to be honored and admired for their\n>humility and submission to God\'s working, beyond doubt. But the almalga-\n>mation of theories and dogma that has accreted around them gives me\n>an image of alien and inhuman creatures, untouched by sin or human\n>desire. Only Christ himself was so truly sanctified, and even He knew\n>temptation, albeit without submitting to it.\n\n>I also don\'t see the _necessity_ of saying the Holy Parents were some-\n>how sanctified beyond normal humanity: it sounds like our own inability\n>to grasp the immensity of God\'s grace in being incarnated through an or-\n>dinary human being. \n\n>I won\'t start yelling about how people are "worshipping" Mary, etc.,\n>since folks have told me otherwise about that, but I do think we\n>lose part of the wonder of God\'s Incarnation in Christ when we make\n>his parents out to be sinless, sexless, deathless, otherworldly beings.\n> \n>--\n>paul marxhausen .... ....... ............. ............ ............ .......... \n\n\tPaul-\n\n\tYou did a wonderful job of not doing anything humany possible to \noffend us Catholics; hopefully I can be just as careful in my wording as you\nwere.\n\tI also don\'t want to extend this topic into an entire major issue of\ndebate (anymore than it already is), but just a note or two:\n\n\t1. Please don\'t talk about Jesus\' "parents"--the doctrinal positions\n\t\tof the church an unequivocally different regarding Mary and\n\t\tJoseph. I (personally) have never heard of anything being\n\t\tattributed to St. Joseph other than his sainthood; that is,\n\t\tno reference *ever* to him being sinless, assumed into heaven,\n\t\timmaculately conceived, etc.--all these ideas apply only to\n\t\tMary.\n\n\t2. I would agree there is very little scriptural evidence for our\n\t\tdoctrines about Mary. Needless to say, that presents a \n\t\tsignificant problem to those who accept the bible as the only\n\t\tsource of doctrine. If, however, one turns to the sacred \n\t\ttraditions of the undivided Christian Church, there is no\n\t\tproblem finding plently of evidence that it was basically a\n\t\tunanimous belief among the apostles and all the early \n\t\tgeneration that Mary was assumed into heaven, body and soul,\n\t\tetc. etc. It wasn\'t until the reformation that these doctrines\n\t\twere called into question. As far as I am concerned (again, my\n\t\tpersonaly feelings) if it\'s a choice between the apostles or\n\t\tLuther, I\'ll choose the apostles every time, whether or not\n\t\tit is recorded within the writings that the traditions of men\n\t\thave determined to be "the bible".\n\n\tLike a said, just a couple of notes. As is often said, I believe that\nwe must agree to (politely) disagree. \n\tMay God\'s peace and blessings be with you always in your search to\ndiscover His absolute truth. \n\t\t\t- Mike Walker\n\t\t\t mdw33310@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu\n\t\t\t (Univ. of Illinois)\n',
"From: faith@world.std.com (Seth W McMan)\nSubject: Re: Homosexuality issues in Christianity\nOrganization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA\nLines: 26\n\nIn article <May.13.02.31.16.1993.1569@geneva.rutgers.edu> djohnson@cs.ucsd.edu (Darin Johnson) writes:\n>Ok, what's more important to gay Christians? Sex, or Christianity?\n>Christianity I would hope. Would they be willing to forgo sex\n>completely, in order to avoid being a stumbling block to others,\n>to avoid the chance that their interpretation might be wrong,\n>etc? If not, why not? Heterosexuals abstain all the time.\n>(It would be nice if protestant churches had celibate orders\n>to show the world that sex is not the important thing in life)\n\nThe biblical arguments against homosexuality are weak at best, yet\nChrist is quite clear about our obligations to the poor. How as \nChristians can we demand celibacy from homosexuals when we walk\nby homeless people and ignore the pleas for help? \nChrist is quite clear on our obligations to the poor.\n\nThought for the day:\n\nMAT 7:3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but\nconsiderest not the beam that is in thine own eye? Or how wilt thou say to\nthy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam\nis in thine own eye? \n-- \n | The Love of Christ is contagious.\n--+-- MAT 23:27 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are \n | like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, \n | but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness. \n",
"From: mikeh@cbnewsg.cb.att.com (michael p.herlihy)\nSubject: Re: Satan kicked out of heaven: Biblical?\nOrganization: AT&T\nLines: 20\n\nIn article <May.14.02.11.36.1993.25219@athos.rutgers.edu> tas@pegasus.com (Len Howard) writes:\n\n>Hi Eddie, many people believe the battle described in Rev 12:7-12\n>describes the casting out of Satan from heaven and his fall to the\n>earth.\n>Shalom, Len Howard\n\nLuke 10:16-18\n\nHe that heareth you heareth me; and he that despiseth you despiseth\n me; and he that despiseth me despiseth him that sent me.\n\nAnd the seventy returned again with joy, saying, Lord, even the\n devils are subject unto us through thy name.\n\nAnd he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.\n-- \nIf a prayer today is spoken, please offer it up for me\nWhen the bridge to heaven is broken and you're lost on the wild wild seas\nLost on the wild wild sea\n",
'From: banschbach@vms.ocom.okstate.edu\nSubject: PMS-Can It Be Prevented By A Diet Change?\nLines: 274\nNntp-Posting-Host: vms.ocom.okstate.edu\nOrganization: OSU College of Osteopathic Medicine\n\nThis question came up in Sci. Med. Nutrition and I\'m posting my answer \nhere. Only 22 medical schools in the U.S. teach courses on human \nnutrition. We have already seen what a lack of nutrition education can do \nwhen candida and kidney stones present themselves to the medical community.\nI think that the best example of where U.S. medicine is really missing the \nmark when it comes to a knowledge of nutrition is PMS. So many women(and \ntheir husbands) suffer from this disorder that it is really criminal that \nmost physicians in the U.S. are not taught that PMS is primarily caused by \ndiet and diet changes can prevent it from ever happpening. Before shooting \nyour flames, read the entire article and then decide if flaming is \njustified.\n\nFrom A Poster In Sci. Medi. Nutrition:\n> \tIn a psychological anthropology course I am taking, we got \n> sidetracked onto a short conversation about PMS. Some rumors shared\n> by several of the students included ideas that vitamin levels, sugar\n> intake, and caffeine intake might affect PMS symptoms.\n> \tIs there any data on this, or is it just so much hooey?\n> \n> Many thanks,\n> \n> Michael, I\'ve wanted to reply to this post ever since I saw it but I got \nside-tracked with candida. PMS is a lot like Candida blooms, most \nphysicians don\'t recognize it as a specific "disease" entity. Here is \neverything that you would ever want to know about PMS.\n\nPremenstrual syndrome has been divided into four specific subgroups:\n\n\tPMT-A(Anxiety)\t\tPMT-D(depression)\n\tanxiety\t\t\tdepression\n\tirritability\t\tforgetfulness\n\tinsomnia\t\tconfusion\n\tdepression\t\tlethargy\n\n\tPMT-C(Craving)\t\tPMT-H(Hyperhydration)\n\tcraving for sweets\tweight gain\n\tincreased appetite\tbreast congestion and tenderness\n\tsugar ingestion causes: abdominal bloating and tenderness\n\t 1. headache\t\tedema of the face and extremities\n\t 2. palpitations\n\t 3. fatigue or fainting\n \nPMT-A is characterized by elevated blood estrogen levels and low \nprogesterone levels during the luteal phase of a women\'s cycle.\n\nPMT-C is caused by the ingestion of large amounts of refined simple \ncarbohydrates. During the luteal phase of a women\'s cycle, there is \nincreased glucose tolerance with a flat glucose curve after oral glucose \nchallenge. The metabolic findings believed to be responsible for PMT-C are \na low magnesium and a low prostaglandin E1. This condition of hypoglycemia \nis not unique to PMS but there are a number of different causes of \nhypoglycemia, magnesium and PGE1 seem to be specific to PMS hypoglycemia.\n\tA. Am. J. Psychiatry 147(4):477-80(1990).\nUnrefined complex carbohydrate should be substituted for sugar, magnesium \nsupplementation and alpha linoleic acid supplementation(increased to 5-6% of \nthe total calories) using safflower oil or evening primrose oil as sources \nof alpha linoleic acid.\n\nPMT-D is characterized by elevated progesterone levels during the midluteal \nphase of a women\'s cycle. Another cause of PMT-D has been found to be lead \ntoxicity(in women without elevated progesterone levels during the midluteal \nphase). "Effect of metal ions on the binding of estridol to human \nendometrial cystol" Fertil. Steril. 28:312-18(1972).\n\nPMT-H is associated with water and salt retention along with an elevated \nserum aldosterone level. Salt restriction, B6, magnesium and vitamin E \nfor breast tenderness have all been effective in treating PMT-H\n\nThis general discussion of the PMS syndromes came form:\n\n\tA. "Management of the premenstrual tension sundromes: Rational for \n\t a nutritional approach". 1986, A Year in Nutritional Medicine. \n\t J. Bland, Ed. Keats, Publishing, 1986.\n\n\tB. "Nutritional factors in the etiology of premenstrual tension \n\t syndromes", J. Reprod. Med.28(7):446-64(1983).\n\n\tC. "Premenstrual tension", Prob. Obstet. Gynecol. 3(12):1-39(1980)\n\nTreatment has traditionally involved progesterone administration if you can \nfind a doctor who will treat you for PMS(just about as hard as finding one \nthat will treat you for candida blooms). While progesterone will work, \nsupplementation with vitamins and minerals works even better. There really \nhas been an awful lot of research done on PMS(much more than candida \nblooms). Many of these studies have been what are called experimental \ncontrolled studies(the type of rigorous clinical studies that doctors like to \nsee done).\n\nHere are a few of these studies:\n\n\tCARBOHYDRATE: Experimental Controlled Study, "Effect of a low-fat, \n\thigh-carbohydrate diet on symptoms of cyclical mastopathy" Lancet \n\t2:128-32(1988). 21 pts with severe persistent cyclical mastopathy \n\tof at least 5 years duration were randomly selected to receive \n\tspecific training to reduce dietary fat to 15% of total calories \n\tand increase complex carbohydrate ingestion or given general dietary \n\tadvise with no training. After 6 months, there was a significant \n\treduction in the severity of the breast swelling and tenderness in \n\tthe trained group as reported by self-reported symptoms as well as \n\tphysical exams which quantitated the degree of breast swelling, \n\ttenderness and nodularity.\n\n\tVITAMIN A: Experimental Controlled Study, "The use of Vitamin A in \n\tpremenstrual tension" Acta Obstet. Gynecol Scand. 39:586-92(1960). \n\t218 pts with severe recurring PMS received 200,000 to 300,000IU \n\tvitamin A daily or a placebo. Serum retinol levels were monitored \n\tand high dose supplementation was discontinued when evidence of \n\ttoxicity occured(serum retinol above 450ug/ml). The intent of the \n\tstudy was to load the liver up with vitamin A and get a normal pool \n\tsize(500,000IU to 1,000,000IU) and then see if this \n\tnormal vitamin A pool could prevent PMS. 48% getting the high dose \n\tvitamin A had complete remission of the symptoms of PMS. Only 10% \n\tgetting the placebo reported getting complete relief of PMS sysmptoms.\n \t10% of the vitamin A treated group reported no improvement in PMS \n\tsymptoms.\n\n\tExperimental Controlled Study, "Premenstrual tension treated with \n\tvitamin A" J. Clinical Endocrinology 10:1579-89(1950). 30 pts \n\treceived 200,000IU of vitamin A daily starting on day 15 of their \n\tcycle with supplementation continuing until the onset of PMS symptoms.\n \tAfter 2-6 months, all 30 pts reported a significant improvement in \n\tPMS symptoms. Vitamin A supplementation was stopped once evidence of \n\ttoxicity was demonstrated and all 30 pts were followed for one year \n\tafter high dose vitamin A supplementation was stopped. PMS symptoms \n\tdid not reoccur in any of these 30 pts for upto one year after the \n\tvitamin A supplementation was stopped.\n\nMost Americans do not have a normal store of vitamin A in their liver. \nThese studies and several others were designed to see if getting a normal \nstore of vitamin A into the liver could eliminate PMS. Of all the vitamins \ngiven for PMS(vitamin A, B6, and vitamin E), vitamin A has shown the best \nsingle effect. This is probably because vitamin A is involved in steroid \n(estrogen/progesterone) metabolism in the liver. Getting your liver full \nof vitamin A seems to be one of the best things that you can do to prevent \nthe symptoms of PMS. But vitamin A is toxic and you don\'t want to be trying \nto do this without being seen by a physician who can monitor you for vitamin \nA toxicity.\n\n\tVITAMIN B6: Experimental Double-blind Crossoverr Study, "Pyridoxine\n\t(vitamin B6) and the premenstrual syndrome: A randomized crossover \n\ttrial"J.R. Coll. Gen. Pract. 39:364-68(1989). 32 women aged 18-49 \n\twith moderate to severe PMS randomly received 50mg B6 daily or placebo.\n \tAfter 3 months the groups were switched and followed for another \n\t3 months. B6 had a significant effect on the emotional aspects of \n\tPMS(depression, irritability and tiredness). Other symptoms of PMS \n\twere not significanttly affected by B6 supplementation.\n\n\tExperimental Double-blind Study, "The efects of vitamin B6 \n\tsupplementation on premenstrual sysmptoms" Obstet. Gynecol \n\t70(2):145-49(1987). 55 pts with moderate to severe PMS received \n\t150mg B6 daily or placebo for 2 months. Analysis of convergence \n\tshowed that B6 significantly improved premenstrual symptoms related \n\tto the autonomic nervous system(dizziness and vomiting) as well as \n\tbehavior changes(poor mental performance, decreased social interaction)\n \tAnxiety, depression and water retention were not improved by B6 \n\tsupplementation.\n\nVitamin B6 is below the RDA for both American men and women. Birth control \npills and over 40 different drugs increase the B6 requirement in man. \nWomen on birth control pills should be supplemented with 10-15 mg of B6 per \nday. The dose should be increased if symptoms of PMS appear. Dr. David R. \nRubinow who heads the biological psychiatry branch of NIMH was quoted in \nClin. Psychiatry News, December, 1987 as stating that B6 should be \nconsidered the "first-line" drug for PMS(over progesterone) and if the \npatient does not respond, then other treatments should be tried. Vitamin \nB6 can be toxic(nerve damage) if consumed in doses of 500mg or more each \nday. \n\n\n\tVITAMIN E: Experimental Double-blind Study, "Efficacy of alpha-\n\ttocopherol in the treatment of premenstrual syndrome" J. Reprod. \n\tMed. 32(6):400-04(1987). 35 pts received 400IU vitamin E daily for 3 \n\tcycles or a placebo. Vitamin E treated pts had 33% who reported a \n\tsignificant reduction in physical symptoms(weight gain and breast \n\ttenderness) while the placebo group had 14% who reported a significant\n \treduction in physical symptoms. The vitamin E group reported that 38% \n\thad a significant reduction in anxiety versus 12% for the placebo \n\tgroup. For depression, the vitamin E group had 27% with a significant\n\tdecrease in depression compared with 8% for the placebo group.\n\n\tExperimental Double-blind Study, "The effect of alpha-tocopherol on \n\tpremenstrual symptomalogy: A double blind study" J. Am. Coll. Nutr. \n\t2(2):115-122(1983). 75pts with benign breast disease and PMT randomly \n\treceived vitamin E at 75IU, 150IU, or 300IU daily or placebo. After \n\t2 months of supplementation, 150IU of vitamin E or higher significantly \n\timproved PMT-A and PMT-C. The 300IU dose was needed to significantly \n\timprove PMT-D. No dose of vitamin E significantly improved PMT-H\n\t(other studies have shown that a higher vitamin E doses will relieve \n\tPMT-H symptoms).\n\t\n\tMAGNESIUM: Experimental Double-blind Study, "Magnesium prophylaxis \n\tof menstrual migraine: effects on itracellular magnesium" Headache \n\t31:298-304(1991). 20 pts with perimenstrual headache received 360 mg \n\tdaily of magnesium as magnesium pyrrolidone carboxylic acid or a \n\tplacebo. Treatment was started on the 15th day of the cycle and \n\tcontinued until menstruation. After 2 months, the Pain Total Index \n\twas significantly lower in the magnesium group. Magnesium treatment \n\twas also assocoiated with a significant reduction in the Menstrual \n\tDistress Questionnaire scores. Pretreatment magnesium levels in \n\tlymphocytes and polymorphonuclear leukocytes were significantly lower \n\tin this group of 20 pts compared to control women who did not suffer \n\tfrom PMS. After treatment, magnesium levels in these cells was raised \n\tinto the normal range.\n\n\tExperimental Double-blind Study, "Oral Magnesium successfully \n\trelieves premenstrual mood changes" Obstet. Gynecol 78(2):177-81(1991). \n\t32pts aged 24-39 randomly received either magnesium carboxylic acid \n\t360mg of Mg per day or a placebo from the 15th day of the cycle to the \n\tonset of the menstrual flow. After 2 cycles, both groups received \n\tmagnesium. The Menstrual Distress Questionnaire score of the cluster \n\tpain was significantly reduced during the second cycle(month) for the \n\tmagnesium treatment group as well as the placebo group once they were \n\tswitched to magnesium supplementation. In addition, the total score on \n\tthe Menstrual Distress Questionnaire was significantly decreased by \n\tmagnesium supplementation. The authors suggest that magnesium \n\tsupplemenation should become a routine treatment for the mood changes \n\tthat occur during PMS.\n\nThere are numerous observational studies that have been published in the \nmedical literature which also suggest that PMS is primarily a disorder \nthat arises out of a hormone imbalance that is dietary in nature. But \nsince observational studies are considered by most physicians in Sci. Med. \nto be anecdotal in nature, I have not bothered to cite them. There are \nalso over a half dozen good experimental studies that have been done on \nmultivitamin and mineral supplementation to prevent PMS. I\'ve chosen the \nbest specific studies on individual vitamins and minerals to try to point out \nthat PMS is primarily a nutritional disorder. But doctors don\'t recognize \nnutritional disorders unless they can see clinical pathology(beri-beri, \npellagra, scruvy, etc.). PMS is probably the best reason why every doctor \nbeing trained in the U.S. should get a good course on human nutrition. PMS \nis really only the tip if the iceberg when it comes to nutritional \ndisorders. It\'s time that medicine woke up and smelled the roses.\n\nHere\'s some studies which show the importance in multivitamin/mineral \nsupplementation and/or diet change in preventing PMS.\n\n\tExperimental Study, "Effect of a nutritional programme on \n\tpremenstrual syndrome: a retrospective analysis", Complement. Med. \n\tRes.5(1):8-11(1991). 200pts were given dietary instructions and \n\tsupplemented with Optivite(R) plus additional vitamin C, vitamin E, \n\tmagnesium, zinc and primrose oil. The dietary instructions were to \n\ttake the supplements and switch to a low fat, complex carbohydrate \n\tdiet. On a retrospective analysis, 96.5% of the 200pts reported an \n\timprovement in their PMS symptoms with 30% of the sample stating that \n\tthey no longer suffered from PMS. \n\n\n\tExperimental Double-blind Study, "Role of Nutrition in managing \n\tpremenstrual tension syndromes", J Reprod. Med. 32(6):405-22(1987). \n\tA low fat, high complex carbohydrate diet along with Optivite \n\tsupplementation significantly decreased PMS scores compared with diet \n\tchange and placebo. After 6 months on the experimental program, the \n\tvitamin/mineral supplementated group had significantly decreased \n\testradiol and increased progesterone in serum during the midlutel \n\tphase of their cycle.\n\n\tExperimental Double-blind Study, "Clinical and biochemical effects \n\tof nutritional supplementation on the premenstrual syndrome", J. \n\tReprod. Med. 32(6):435-41(1987). 119pts randomly given Optivite(12 \n\ttablets per day) or a placebo. The treated groups showed a \n\tsignificant decrease in PMS symptoms compared to the placebo. Another\n \tgroup of 104pts got Optivite(4 tablets per day) or placebo. For this \n\tsecond group of patients, no significant effect of supplementation on \n\tPMS symptoms was observed.\n\nMartin Banschbach, Ph.D.\nProfessor of Biochemistry and Chairman\nDepartment of Biochemistry and Microbiology\nOSU College of Osteopathic Medicine\n1111 W. 17th St.\nTulsa, Ok 74107\n\n"Without discourse, there is no remembering, without remembering, there is \nno learning, without learning, there is only ignorance" \n',
'From: maridai@comm.mot.com (Marida Ignacio)\nSubject: Re: Bernadette dates\nOrganization: trunking_fixed\nLines: 52\n\n\n |JEK@cu.nih.gov writes: \n |Joe Moore writes: \n | \n | > Mary at that time appeared to a girl named Bernadette at \n | > Lourdes. She referred to herself as the Immaculate Conception.\n | > Since a nine year old would have no way of knowing about the \n | > doctrine, the apparition was deemed to be true and it sealed \n | > the case for the doctrine. \n |Bernadette was 14 years old when she had her visions, in 1858, \n |four years after the dogma had been officially proclaimed by the \n |Pope. \n | \n | Yours, \n | James Kiefer\n\nI forgot exactly what her age was but I remember clearly\nthat she was born in a family of poverty and she did not\nhave any education, whatsoever, at the age of the apparitions.\nShe suffered from asthma at that age and she and her family were\nliving in an abandoned prison cell of some sort.\n\nShe had to ask the \'Lady\' several times in her apparitions about \nwhat her name was since her confessor priest asked her to do so. \nFor several instances, the priest did not get an answer since \nBernadette did not receive any. One time, after several apparitions\npassed, The Lady finally said, "I am the Immaculate Conception".\nSo, Bernadette, was so happy and repeated these words over and\nover in her mind so as not to forget it before she told the\npriest who was asking. So, when she told the priest, the\npriest was shocked and asked Bernadette, "Do you know what\nyou are talking about?". Bernadette did not know what exactly\nit meant but she was just too happy to have the answer for\nthe priest. The priest continued with, "How did you remember\nthis if you do not know?". Bernadette answered honestly that\nshe had to repeat it over and over in her mind while on her\nway to the priest...\n\nThe priest knew about the dogma being four years old then.\nBut Bernadette did not know and yet she had the answer which\nthe priest finally observed and took as proof of an authentic\npersonal revelation of Our Lady to Bernadette.\n\n(Note: This Lady of Lourdes shrine has a spring of water which\nour lady requested Bernadette to dig up herself with her\nbare hands in front of pilgrims. At the start little\nwater flowed but after several years there is more water \nflowing.)\n\n-Marida\n "...spreading God\'s words through actions..."\n -Mother Teresa\n',
"From: Mike.Hahn@p57.f714.n7102.z5.fidonet.org (Mike Hahn)\nSubject: Translations\nLines: 18\n\nAlison J Wyld wrote to All:\n\n AJW> Does anyone know of an English language edition that does not show the\n AJW> verse (or even chapter) numbers.\n\n[...]\n\n clh> [The original NEB put verse numbers only in the margin [...]\n\nKenneth Wuest's expanded translation of the New Testament does the same - it puts the range of verse numbers next to the top of each paragraph. Being an expanded translation it is quite verbose though - more suitable for detailed study than for quick reading.\n\nMike\n\n--- GoldED 2.41\n-- \nINTERNET: Mike.Hahn@p57.f714.n7102.z5.fidonet.org\nvia: THE CATALYST BBS in Port Elizabeth, South Africa.\n (catpe.alt.za) +27-41-34-2859, V32bis & HST.\n",
"From: jhl14@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Jonathan H. Lin)\nSubject: atrial natriuretic factor\nKeywords: ANP, Renal Regulation\nReply-To: jhl14@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Jonathan H. Lin)\nOrganization: Columbia University\nLines: 12\nNntp-Posting-Host: cunixb.cc.columbia.edu\n\n\n\nANP is secreted by the atria in response to increases in fluid volume\nand acts to facilitate sodium and water excretion from the kidneys.\nCan someone tell me the molecular mechanism by which this is done?\n\nPlease email your response\n\nThanks\n-------------------------------------------------------------------------------\n Po'g Mo Thon \n-------------------------------------------------------------------------------\n",
"From: 9130037@golum.riv.csu.edu.au (CHAN Yin Mei)\nSubject: help! colour display restriction/limitation\nOriginator: 9130037@golum.riv.csu.edu.au\nOrganization: Charles Sturt University - Riverina, Wagga Wagga, NSW, Australia\nLines: 29\n\nhi netters,\n\n\tI'm doing a project which is about image analysis. Firstly, I\nhave to find out any restrictions or limitations on the colour display\non various kind of workstations, they are DECstation, HP, Amiga, Apollo.\n\n\tSecondly, I read from some graphic texts that image is displayed\nin 24 bites(please point out to me if I got it wrong). But, the images\nwhich I will deal with are displayed in 16 bites by the software they\nare using currently. So, will there be any problems to display them\nunder X-windows in the future? Because we are thinking to implement the\nGUI by X-windows for our project\n\n\n\tIs there any person here can help me to solve the problem or\nquery above? Or, give me some advice or suggestion where I can find\nthem out. \n\n\tPlease send me an e-mail if there are any. Thanks in advance.\n\n\n\n\t\t\t\t\t\tYours\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t\t\tChristine Chan\n\n\nmy address : 9130037@golum.riv.csu.edu.au\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\n",
'From: kshin@bcstec.ca.boeing.com (Kevin Shin)\nSubject: Graph Traversal Algorithms\nOrganization: Boeing\nLines: 14\n\nHi, Everyone.\nI am currently planning to write a program that traverses the\nimage of handwritten characters in ascii format and produces\ncircle and line representation of handwritten characters.\nDid anybody out there has any experiences on this problem?\nIf you have would you post or e-mail to please\nkevin\n\nDoes anyone has program that traverse the digital image and produces\ncircle and line\n-- \n-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------\nKEVIN SHIN kshin@bcstec.ca.boeing.com\n-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------\n',
'From: I3150101@dbstu1.rz.tu-bs.de (Benedikt Rosenau)\nSubject: Re: Islam And Scientific Predictions (was Re: Genocide is Caused by Atheism)\nOrganization: Technical University Braunschweig, Germany\nLines: 20\n\nIn article <1993Apr19.231641.21652@monu6.cc.monash.edu.au>\ndarice@yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au (Fred Rice) writes:\n \n(Deletion)\n>"(God is) the One Who created the night, the day, the sun and the moon.\n>Each is travelling in an orbit with its own motion." (Qur\'an :33)\n>\n>The positive aspect of this verse noted by Dr. Maurice Bucaille is that\n>while geocentrism was the commonly accepted notion at the time (and for\n>a long time afterwards), there is no notion of geocentrism in this verse\n>(or anywhere in the Qur\'an).\n>\n \nWell, that is certainly different, but it looks as if there is a translation\nfound for everything. By the way, I am most surprised to hear that night and\nday move in an orbit.\n \nAnd that the sun travels in an orbit without saying that earth does, too,\nsounds geocentric to me.\n Benedikt\n',
'From: crs@carson.u.washington.edu (Cliff Slaughterbeck)\nSubject: Re: Homosexuality issues in Christiani\nOrganization: University of Washington, Seattle\nLines: 58\n\nOFM writes:\n\n>This is an issue throughout the Presbyterian Church. On the other\n>side, one of the major churches in Cincinnati has been ordaining\n>homosexual elders, and has ignored Presbytery instructions not to do\n>so. And the church in Rochester where the judicial commission said\n>they couldn\'t install a homosexual pastor has made her an\n>"evangelist". These situations, as well as the one you describe, do\n>not appear to be stable. This will certainly be a major topic for the\n>General Assembly next month. If the church can\'t come up with a\n>solution that will let people live with each other, I think we\'re end\n>up with a split. Clearly neither side wants that, but I think we\'ll\n>get pushed into it by actions of both sides.\n>\n>--clh]\n\nThe Moderator of the General Assembly, the Rev. John Fife, visited our\nchurch about a week ago (just 4 days after Rev. Spahr--it\'s been a busy\nweek for our small church!!). He was asked specifically about the issue\nof homosexuality and what he thinks will happen at the GA meeting next\nmonth. Evidently, there are 15-20 known resolutions pending that range\nthe gamut from "outlawing" homosexuality altogether to "legalizing" it\ncompletely. He will readily admit that this is probabaly the most difficult\nissue that the church has had to deal with since the Presbyterian church\nsplit in two over the issue of slavery more than 100 years ago. Without\nquestion, the issue may split the church again after we\'ve been reunited\nfor all of a dozen years or so. He is hopeful that it will not and is\npushing the same attitude that helped the church deal with the abortion\nissue last year as a solution.\n\nHe is hoping to pass a resolution that more or less states that we, the\nmembers of the church "Agree to Disagree" on the issue, admitting that\nboth sides have honestly studied the Scriptures and had the Spirit lead\nthem to different conclusions. It worked last year when the abortion\nissue threatened to do more or less the same thing, and he is hopeful that\nthe GA can foster a loving and caring attitude about people who disagree\nwith their own view.\n\n--\nCliff Slaughterbeck | \nDept. of Physics, FM-15 | It\'s time for the sermon on the\nUniversity of Washington | Grand Torino!\nSeattle, WA 98195 |\n\n[It\'s going to be hard to agree to disagree. If we allow\ndisagreement, then some presbyteries and churches are going to ordain\npeople that others will not recognize. That\'s a difficult situation\nin a connectional church. I could live with it, but I think a lot of\npeople would not be willing to. Note that the church was not willing\nto live with this kind of compromise with ordination of women. The\none thing that will definitely prevent a person from becoming a\nPresbyterian minister is if they indicate that they don\'t accept\nordination of women. The argument is that we can\'t have half the\nchurch not accepting the leaders of the other half. Maybe people will\ndecide to live with it in this case when they didn\'t in the other, but\nI wonder. I admit that my own Presbytery submitted an overture to the\nGA that would have exactly this effect, and we considered the\nambiguity better than the current situation. --clh]\n',
"From: cfury@csugrad.cs.vt.edu (Chris Fury)\nSubject: Re: Help needed: DXF ---> IFF\nLines: 17\nOrganization: Virginia Tech Computer Science Dept, Blacksburg, VA\nLines: 17\n\nBlue-Knight@bknight.jpr.com (Yury German) writes:\n\n>\t.DXF can not be changed over to .IFF format what it can be changed\n>to is an object format used by one of the 3D programs on the Amiga. The\n>only tools around are comercial for that conversion.\n\nActually, IFF is a *format standard*. It is not a picture file format, sound\nfile format, but there exist several formats that use the IFF standard. The\nIFF picture standard used by mostly everybody is a FORM ILBM (or just ILBM).\nThe only 3D IFF specification I know of is TDDD, which is used by Imagine and\nit's predecessor, Turbo Silver. It is possible that some of the other Amiga\npackages use another *IFF* spec, but I don't know of any. Lightwave will load\nTDDD FORM's I believe.\n\n--\nChristopher B. Fury | This space for rent. \ncfury@csugrad.cs.vt.edu | Call 1-900-QUOTEME for more information.\n",
'From: banschbach@vms.ocom.okstate.edu\nSubject: Re: Chromium as dietary suppliment for weight loss\nOrganization: OSU College of Osteopathic Medicine\nLines: 126\nNntp-Posting-Host: vms.ocom.okstate.edu\n\nIn article <1993Apr29.145140.10559@newsgate.sps.mot.com>, rhca80@melton.sps.mot.com (Henry Melton) writes:\n> \n> My wife has requested that I poll the Sages of Usenet to see what is\n> known about the use of chromium in weight-control diet suppliments.\n> She has seen multiple products advertising it and would like any kind\n> real information.\n> \n> My first impulse was "Yuck! a metal!" but I have zero data on it.\n> \n> What do you know?\n> \n> -- \n> Henry Melton \n\nI\'ll tell you all that I know about chromium. But before I do, I want to \nget a few things off my chest. I just got blasted in e-mail for my kidney \nstone posts. Kidney stones are primarily caused by diet, as is heart \ndisease and cancer. When I give dietary advise, it is not intended to \nencourage people reading this news group(or Sci. Med. Nutrition where I do \nmost of my posting) to avoid seeing a doctor. Nothing can be further from \nthe truth. Kidney stones can be caused by tumors and this possibility has to \nbe ruled out. But once it is, diet is a good way of preventing a reoccurance.\nSame thing with heart disease and cancer, if you suspect that you may have \na problem with one of these diseases, don\'t use what I\'m going to tell you \nor what you read in some book to avoid going to a doctor. You have to go.\nHopefully you will find a doctor who knows enough about nutrition to help \nyou change your risk factors for both diseases as part of a treatment \nprogram(but the odds are that you will not and that\'s why I\'m here). When \nmy wife detected a lump in here breast I didn\'t say, don\'t worry my vitamin \nE will take care of it. Any breast lump has to be worked up by a physician, \nplan and simple. If it\'s begnin(which most are) fine, then maybe a diet \nchange and supplementation will prevent further breast lumps from occuring.\nBut let me tell you right now, if you have tried diet and supplementation \nand another lump returns, get your butt into the doctor\'s office as fast as \nyour little feet can carry you(better yet, have a mammography done on a \nregular basis, my wife kept putting her\'s off, both myself and her \ngynocologist told her she needed to have one done). Her gynocologist even \nscheduled one, but she didn\'t show up(too busy running the Operating Room for \nthe biggest Hospital in Tulsa).\n\nOne more thing, I am not an orthomolecular nutritionist. This group uses \nhigh dose vitamins and minerals to treat all kinds of disease. There is \nabsolutely no doubt in my mind that vitamins and minerals can and do have \ndrug actions in the body. But you talk about flying blind, man this is \nreally blind treatment. No drug could ever be used as these vitamins and \nminerals are being used. I\'m not saying that some of this stuff couldn\'t \nbe right on the money, it may well be. But my approach to nutrition is a \nlot like that of Weinsier and Morgan, the two M.D\'s who wrote the new \nClinical Nutrition textbook. My push is the nutrient reserves and the lab \ntests needed to measure these reserves and then supplementation or diet \nchanges to get these reserves built up to where they should be to let you \nhandle stress. That\'s where I\'m coming from folks. Blast away if you want,\nI\'m not going to change. Put me in your killfile if you want, I really \ndon\'t care. I\'m averaging 8-10 e-mail messages a day from people who think \nthat I\'ve got something important to say. But I\'m also getting hit by a \nfew with an axe to grind. That\'s life.\n\nChromium is one of the trace elements. It has a very limited(but very \nimportant) role in the body. It is used to form glucose tolerance factor\n(GTF). GTF is made up of chromium, nicinamide(niacin), glycine, cysteine \nand glutamic. Only the chromium and the niacin are needed from the diet to \nform GTF. Some foods already have GTF(Liver, brewers or nutritional yeast,\nand black pepper). When chromium is in GTF, a pretty good absorption is \nseen(about 20%). But when it is simply present as a mineral or mineral \nchelate(chromium picolinate) it\'s absorption is much lower(1 to 2%, lowest \nfor all the minerals). I\'ve been posting in Misc. Fitness and chromium has \ncome up there several times as a "fat burner". Chromium is among the least \ntoxic of the minerals so you could really load yourself up and not really \ndo any harm. I wouldn\'t do it though. The adequate and safe range for \nchromium is 50 to 200ug per day. The average American is getting about \n30ug per day from his/her diet. Chromium levels decrease with age and many \nbelieve that adult onset diabetes is primarily a chromium deficiency. I \ncan cite you several studies that have been done with glucose tolerance in \nType II diabetes but I\'m not going to because for each positive one, there \nalso seems to be a negative one as well. I\'m convinced that the problem is \nbioavailability. When yeast(GTF) is used, good results are obtained but when \nchromium itself is used the results are usually negative. In addition to \nType II diabetes, chromiuum has been examined in cardiovascular disease and \nglucoma, again with mixed results as far as cardiovascular disease is \nconcerned\n\nSince a high blood glucose level can lead to cardiovascular disease, \nthis possible link with chromium isn\'t too surprising. Glucoma is a little \nmore interesting. Muscle eye focusing activity is primarily an insulin \nresponsive glucose-driven metabolic function. If this eye focusing activity \nis impaired(by a lack of glucose due to a poor insulin response), intraocular \npressure is believed to be elevated. In a fairly large study of 400 pts with \nglaucoma, the one consistent finding was a low RBC chromium. J. Am. Coll. \nNutr. 10(5):536,(1991). But this one preliminary study should not prompt \npeople to go out and start popping chromium supplements. For one thing, \njust about every older person is going to have a low RBC chromium unless \nthey have been taking chromium suppleemnts(yeast). Since glucoma is often \nfound in older people, it\'s not too surprising that chromium was low in the \nRBC\'s. If chromium supplementation could reverse glucoma, that would \nprompt some attention. I suspect that there will be a clinical trail to \ncheck out this possible chromium link to glucoma.\n\nYou could find out what your body chromium pool size was by either the RBC \nchromium test or hair analysis. Most clinical labs are not going to run a \nRBC chromium. There are plenty of labs that will do a hair and nail \nanalysis for you, but I wouldn\'t use them. There is just too much funny \nbusiness going on in these unregulated labs right now.\n\nHere\'s Weinsier and Morgan, advise on chromium. They do not consider \nchromium to be one of those minerals for which a reliable clinical test is \navailable(they don\'t like the hair and nail analysis labs either, and they \nalso recognize the RBC chromium is primarily a research test that is not \nroutinely available in most clinical chemistry labs). This has to change \nand as more labs run a RBC chromiuum, it will. What then do they suggest?\nMake a diagnosis of chromium deficiency based on a documented clinical \nresponse to chromium(run a glucose tolerance test before and after chromium \nsupplementation). Once you make the diagnosis, put the patient on 200ug of \nCrCl3 orally each day or 10grams of yeast per day.\n\nWhat\'s my advise? Don\'t take chromium supplements to try to loose weight\n(they just do not work that way). If you want to take them and then \nexercise, that would be great. Do include yeast as part of your diet(most \nAmericans are not getting enough chromium from their diet). If you do have \na poor glucose tolerance, ask your doctor to check your chromium status. \nWhen he or she says, "what in the world are you talking about", just say, \nplease get a copy of Weinsier and Morgan\'s new Clinical Nutrition textbook \nand do what they say to do with patients who present with a poor glucose \ntolerance. If you can\'t do that, I\'ll find a doctor who can, thank you \nvery much.\n\nMarty B.\n',
'From: livesey@solntze.wpd.sgi.com (Jon Livesey)\nSubject: Re: Yet more Rushdie [Re: ISLAMIC LAW]\nOrganization: sgi\nLines: 18\nDistribution: world\nNNTP-Posting-Host: solntze.wpd.sgi.com\n\nIn article <1993Apr19.124834.5640@monu6.cc.monash.edu.au>, darice@yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au (Fred Rice) writes: \n|> \n|> The difference, as I understand it, is that when one _invests_, one\n|> shares in the risk of the venture, whereas when a bank _lends_ money\n|> while charging interest, the bank takes little risk.\n\nThe entire business of a Bank is the management of risk. That\'s\nwhat a Bank is for. That\'s what people who work for Banks do.\n\n|> \n|> Something like that anyway (financial stuff ain\'t my thing).\n\nOK, but in that case why are you posting about it? What I\nhear you saying is "I don\'t understand this stuff, but if Islam\nsays it\'s so, it\'s so".\n\n\njon.\n',
'From: David.Bernard@central.sun.com (Dave Bernard)\nSubject: Re: SJ Mercury\'s reference to Fundamentalist Christian parents\nReply-To: David.Bernard@central.sun.com\nOrganization: Sun Microsystems\nLines: 15\n\nIn article 28120@athos.rutgers.edu, dan@ingres.com (a Rose arose) writes:\n\n>\t"Raised in Oakland and San Lorenzo by strict fundamentalist\n>\tChristian parents, Mason was beaten as a child. He once was\n>\n>Were the San Jose Mercury news to come out with an article starting with\n>"Raised in Oakland by Mexican parents, Mason was beaten...", my face would\n>be red with anger over the injustice done to my Mexican family members and\n\n\nAlthough I\'m neither Fundamentalist nor Evangelical, I have often noticed\nthis trend in the media. In short, it is permissable to bash Fundamentalists.\nNo need to substitue a nationality such as "Mexican..." try simply to \nsubstitute a different religion "...raised by Muslim parents," or "...raised\nby Jewish parents..." The paper simply would not do this.\n',
'From: acooper@mac.cc.macalstr.edu (Turin Turambar, ME Department of Utter Misery)\nSubject: Re: Christian Morality is\nOrganization: Macalester College\nLines: 107\n\nIn article <4963@eastman.UUCP>, dps@nasa.kodak.com (Dan Schaertel,,,) writes:\n> In article 21627@ousrvr.oulu.fi, kempmp@phoenix.oulu.fi (Petri Pihko) writes:\n> |>Dan Schaertel,,, (dps@nasa.kodak.com) wrote:\n> |>\n> |>\n> |>I love god just as much as she loves me. If she wants to seduce me,\n> |>she\'ll know what to do. \n> |>\n> \n> But if He/She did you would probably consider it rape. \n\nProbably because it IS rape.\n\n> \n> |>: Simple logic arguments are folly. If you read the Bible you will see\n> |>: that Jesus made fools of those who tried to trick him with "logic".\n> |>: Our ability to reason is just a spec of creation. Yet some think it is\n> |>: the ultimate. If you rely simply on your reason then you will never\n> |>: know more than you do now. \n> |>\n> |>Your argument is of the type "you\'ll know once you try".\n> |>Yet there are many atheists who have sincerely tried, and believed\n> |>for many years, but were eventually honest enough to admit that \n> |>they had lived in a virtual reality.\n> |>\n> \n> Obviously there are many Christians who have tried and do believe. So .. ?\n\nSo nothing. It may work for some, but not for others: it doesn\'t give any\ninsight into an overall God or overall truth of a religion- it would seem to be\ndependent solely on the individual, as well as individually-created. And since\nChristians have failed to show us how there way of life is in any wy better\nthan ours, I do not see why the attempt to try it is necessary, or even\nparticularly attractive.\n\n> \n> |>: To learn you must accept that which you don\'t know.\n> |>\n> |>What does this mean? To learn you must accept that you don\'t know \n> |>something, right-o. But to learn you must _accept_ something I don\'t\n> |>know, why? This is not the way I prefer to learn. It is unwise to\n> |>merely swallow everything you read. Suppose I write a book telling\n> |>how the Great Invisible Pink Unicorn (tm) has helped me in my\n> |>daily problems, would you accept this, since you can\'t know whether\n> |>it is true or not?\n> |>\n> \n> No one asks you to swallow everything, in fact Jesus warns against it. But let\n> me ask you a question. Do you beleive what you learn in history class, or for\n> that matter anything in school. I mean it\'s just what other people have told\n> you and you don\'t want to swallow what others say. right ... ?\n\nWell, we will nerver know for sure if we were told the truth or not, but at the\nvery least there is a bit more evidence pointing to the fact that, say, there\nwas a military conflict in Vietnam 25 years ago, then there is a supernatural\ndiety who wants us to live a certain way. The fact that Jesus warned against\nit means nothing. *I* warn against it too. Big deal.\n\n> \n> The life , death, and resurection of Christ is documented historical fact. \n\nThis is not true. The first two choices here (life and death) are scantily\ndocumented, and the last one is total malarky unless one uses the Bible, and\nthat is totally circular. Perhaps it be better to use the imagination, or\none\'s ignorance. Someone else will address this I\'m sure, and refer you to\nplenty of documentation...\n\n>As much\n> as anything else you learn. How do you choose what to believe and what not to?\n> I could argue that George Washington is a myth. He never lived because I don\'t\n> have any proof except what I am told. However all the major events of the life\n> of Jesus Christ were fortold hundreds of years before him. Neat trick uh?\n\nHow is this? There is nothing more disgusting than Christian attempts to\nmanipulate/interpret the Old Testament as being filled with signs for the\ncoming of Christ. Every little reference to a stick or bit of wood is\nautmoatically interpreted as the Cross. What a miscarriage of philology.\n\n> \n> There is no way to get into a sceptical heart. You can not say you have given a \n> sincere effort with the attitude you seem to have. You must TRUST, not just go \n> to church and participate in it\'s activities. Were you ever willing to die for what\n> you believed? \n\nWell, since we have skeptical hearts (thank goodness,) there is no way to get\ninto us. Here we have the irreconcilable difference: Christians glorify\nexactly what we tend to despise or snub: trust/belief/faith without knowledge. \nIf I am lucky one day and I happen to be thinking of God at the same time my\nenkephalins go up, then I may associate this as a sign of God (it will "feel"\nright, and I will trust without knowing). Maybe. Religosity does not seem to\nbe anything that is conclusively arrived at, but rather it seems to be more of\na sudden affliction...\nI believe many of us were willing to die for what we believed, many of us were\nnot. The question is, is suchg an attitude reflective of a _correct_ or\nhealthy morality. IT would seem not to be. The same thing could reflect\nfanaticism, for example, and is any case an expression of simple selfishness.\n-- \n\n--Adam\n\n================================================================================\n| Adam John Cooper\t|\t"Verily, often have I laughed at the weaklings |\n| (612) 696-7521\t|\t who thought themselves good simply because |\n| acooper@macalstr.edu\t|\t\t\tthey had no claws."\t |\n================================================================================\n| "Understand one another? I fear I am beyond your comprehension." --Gandalf |\n================================================================================\n',
"From: sandvik@newton.apple.com (Kent Sandvik)\nSubject: Re: thoughts on christians\nOrganization: Cookamunga Tourist Bureau\nLines: 21\n\nIn article <11862@vice.ICO.TEK.COM>, bobbe@vice.ICO.TEK.COM (Robert\nBeauchaine) wrote:\n> \n> In article <sandvik-190493224221@sandvik-kent.apple.com> sandvik@newton.apple.com (Kent Sandvik) writes:\n> >\n> >As I know you can't get any physical problems by passive Christianity,\n> >unlike smoking. It's not that hard to avoid Christianity today, anyway.\n> >Just ignore 'em.\n> >\n> \n> Right on Keith, err, Kent. \n> \n> Whadda you mean, you didn't see the smiley?\n\nOuch. I guess I didn't. Sorry. But my comment was just more\n'irony' into the fire.\n\nCheers,\nKent\n---\nsandvik@newton.apple.com. ALink: KSAND -- Private activities on the net.\n",
'From: mayo@CS.UTK.EDU (Wallace Mayo)\nSubject: Re: Consecration of Russia\nReply-To: Free Catholic Mailing List <CATHOLIC@AMERICAN.EDU>\nLines: 7\n\nI will remind this list that I have a booklet on Fatima I will send to any\none who wants it. It is "Our Lady of Fatima\'s Peace Plan from Heaven".\nIt is 30 pages in length and includes the Fatima story. If you want one\nor more, let me know.\n\nWallace Mayo\nmayo@cs.utk.edu\n',
'From: livesey@solntze.wpd.sgi.com (Jon Livesey)\nSubject: Re: Why Rushdie\'s writings are unappreciated\nOrganization: sgi\nLines: 23\nDistribution: sfnet\nNNTP-Posting-Host: solntze.wpd.sgi.com\n\nIn article <1quc6u$8qu@cc.tut.fi>, a137490@lehtori.cc.tut.fi (Aario Sami) writes:\n|> In <114902@bu.edu> jaeger@buphy.bu.edu (Gregg Jaeger) writes:\n|> \n|> >In article <C53JqD.MDB@blaze.cs.jhu.edu> arromdee@jyusenkyou.cs.jhu.edu (Ken Arromdee) writes:\n|> >>In article <114320@bu.edu> jaeger@buphy.bu.edu (Gregg Jaeger) writes:\n|> \n|> >>>It has been asked why no counter-fatwa has been issued against\n|> >>>Khomenei\'s condemnation of Rushdies because of his _Satanic Verses_.\n|> >>>The reason is basically that the "satanic verses" from which Rushdie\n|> >>>took his title are a serious matter not to be played around with by\n|> >>>anyone who cares about Islam.\n|> \n|> >>This shouldn\'t matter.\n|> \n|> >That\'s your opinion, which I am sorry to say is irrelevant.\n|> \n|> >Gregg\n|> \n|> This guy sounds more than a little borg-ish!\n\nVell, this is perfectly normal behaviour Vor a Vogon, you know?\n\njon. \n',
'From: christen@astro.ocis.temple.edu (Carl Christensen)\nSubject: Re: Cults Vs. Religions?\nOrganization: Temple University\nLines: 22\nNntp-Posting-Host: astro.ocis.temple.edu\nX-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]\n\nBill Ray (ray@engr.LaTech.edu) wrote:\n: James Thomas Green (jgreen@trumpet.calpoly.edu) wrote:\n: : So in conclusion it can be shown that there is essentially no\n: : logical argument which clearly differentiates a "cult" from a\n: : "religion". I challenge anyone to produce a distinction which\n: : is clear and can\'t be easily knocked down. \n\n: How about this one: a religion is a cult which has stood the test\n: of time.\n\nJust like history is written by the `winners\' and not the `losers.\'\nFrom what I\'ve seen of religions, a religion is just a cult that\nwas so vile and corrupt it was able to exert it\'s doctrine using\npolitical and military measures. Perhaps if Koresh withstood the\nonslaught for another couple of months he would have started \nattracting more converts due to his `strength,\' hence becoming a\nfull religion and not just a cult.\n\n--\nCarl Christensen /~~\\_/~\\ ,,, Dept. of Computer Science\nchristen@astro.ocis.temple.edu | #=#==========# | Temple University \n"Curiouser and curiouser!" - LC \\__/~\\_/ ``` Philadelphia, PA USA \n',
'From: hudson@athena.cs.uga.edu (Paul Hudson Jr)\nSubject: Re: homosexual issues in Christianity\nOrganization: University of Georgia, Athens\nLines: 38\n\nIn article <May.13.02.31.26.1993.1577@geneva.rutgers.edu> mls@panix.com (Michael Siemon) writes:\n>>I notice that the verse forbidding bestiality immediately follows the\n>>verse prohibiting what appears to be homosexual intercourse.\n\n> It is\n>absolutely irrelevant and incomparable to the issues gay Christians *do*\n>raise (which concern sexual activity within committed, consensual human\n>adult realtionships), so that your bringing it up is no more relevant\n>than the laws of kashrut. If you cannot address the actual issues, you\n>are being bloody dishonest in trailing this red herring in front of the\n>world.\n\nNo. It is very relevant. Homosexual acts and acts of beastiality are\ntopically aranged together in the law. This is very important.\nAnyone who would want to say that this command against homosexuality\ndeals with temple prostitution (and I think you would agree that there\nis no proof for this.) If the Law reveals the character of God, and \nis "holy, just, and good" as is written in the New Testament, then\nthose who consider we who are against commiting homosexuals acts\nto be biggots have to address this passage of Scripture. \n\nWhy must we only discuss Scriptures that involve consensual human\nadult relationships? Isn\'t that bordering on sophistry? The point\nwe are making is that God did not ordain certain kinds of sex acts.\nNot everyone who brings up these Scriptures is just trying to use and emotional\nargument that compares homosexuals to beastophiles and child molestors.\nThe issue we are dealing with is that some sex acts are ungodly. \n\nI do not have problem with a loving, nonlustful relationship with a member\nof the same sex. I have them, and we all do. The issue at hand is \nthe sinfulness having sex with members of the same sex, or lusting after.\nSo other forbidden sex acts are a valid topic for conversation. \n\nAnd the idea that these relationships may be emotional relationships\nbetween adult humans is red herring. We all agree that it is okay \nfor adults to have caring relationships with one another.\n\nLink Hudson.\n',
'From: PETCH@gvg47.gvg.tek.com (Chuck)\nSubject: Daily Verse\nLines: 3\n\nDishonest money dwindles away, but he who gathers money little by little makes\nit grow. \nProverbs 13:11\n',
"From: kempmp@phoenix.oulu.fi (Petri Pihko)\nSubject: Re: Consciousness part II - Kev Strikes Back!\nOrganization: University of Oulu, Finland\nX-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL9]\nLines: 30\n\nScott D. Sauyet (SSAUYET@eagle.wesleyan.edu) wrote:\n> In <1993Apr21.163848.8099@cs.nott.ac.uk> \n> Kevin Anthony (kax@cs.nott.ac.uk) writes:\n\n> > Firstly, I'm not impressed with the ability of algorithms. They're\n> > great at solving problems once the method has been worked out, but not\n> > at working out the method itself.\n> [ .. crossword example deleted ... ]\n\n> Have you heard of neural networks? I've read a little about them, and\n> they seems to overcome most of your objections.\n\nI'm sure there are many people who work with neural networks and\nread this newsgroup. Please tell Kevin what you've achieved, and\nwhat you expect.\n\n> I am not saying that NNs will solve all such problems, but I think\n> they show that it is not as hard as you think to come up with\n> mechanical models of consciousness.\n\nIndeed. I think dualism is a non-solution, or, as Dennett recently\nput it, a dead horse. \n\nPetri\n\n--\n ___. .'*''.* Petri Pihko kem-pmp@ Mathematics is the Truth.\n!___.'* '.'*' ' . Pihatie 15 C finou.oulu.fi Physics is the Rule of\n ' *' .* '* SF-90650 OULU kempmp@ the Game.\n *' * .* FINLAND phoenix.oulu.fi -> Chemistry is The Game.\n",
"From: jge@cs.unc.edu (John Eyles)\nSubject: tick fever (aka rocky mtn spotted)\nOrganization: The University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill\nLines: 22\nDistribution: usa\nNNTP-Posting-Host: ceti.cs.unc.edu\n\nAny rocky mountain spotted fever experts out there ?\n\nThe doctor thinks a friend might have this.\nThe question is, doesn't the tick have to bite you ?\n\nYou frequently find a tick crawling on you after a walk\nin the woods around here, but you tend to notice it before\nit bites you; pulling one out of your skin is something\nyou're not likely to forget.\n\nCan you get the fever without it biting you ? Do they\nsometimes bite you and then let go so you don't realize\nyou were bitten ? I know they will let go once they've had\ntheir fill, but you certainly would notice this (arggh).\n\nSo how do you get the fever if you never pulled a tick\noff yourself (as opposed to finding one merely crawling\non you) ?\n\nJohn Eyles\njge@cs.unc.edu\n\n",
'From: doyle+@pitt.edu (Howard R Doyle)\nSubject: Re: Persistent vs Chronic\nOrganization: Pittsburgh Transplant Institute\nLines: 53\n\nIn article <10535@blue.cis.pitt.edu> kxgst1+@pitt.edu (Kenneth Gilbert) writes:\n>In article <1rm29k$i7t@hsdndev.harvard.edu> rind@enterprise.bih.harvard.edu (David Rind) writes:\n>:In article <enea1-270493135255@enea.apple.com>\n>: enea1@applelink.apple.com (Horace Enea) writes:\n>:>Can anyone out there tell me the difference between a "persistent" disease\n>:>and a "chronic" one? For example, persistent hepatitis vs chronic\n>:>hepatitis.\n>:\n>:I don\'t think there is a general distinction. Rather, there are\n>:two classes of chronic hepatitis: chronic active hepatitis and chronic\n>:persistent hepatitis. I can\'t think of any other disease where the\n>:term persistent is used with or in preference to chronic.\n>:\n>:Much as these two terms "chronic active" and "chronic persistent"\n>:sound fuzzy, the actual distinction between the two conditions\n>:is often fairly fuzzy as well.\n>\n>I beg to differ. Chronic *active* hepatitis implies that the disease\n>remains active, and generally leads to liver failure. At the very\n>minimum, the patient has persistently elevated liver enzymes (what some\n>call "transaminitis"). Chronic *persistant* hepatitis simply means that\n>the patient has HbSag in his/her blood and can transmit the infection, but\n>shows no evidence of progressive disease. If I had to choose, I\'d much\n>rather have the persistant type.\n\n\nBeing a chronic HBsAg carrier does not necessarily mean the patient has chronic\npersistent anything. Persons who are chronic carriers may have no clinical,\nbiochemical, or histologic evidence of liver disease, or they may have chronic\npersistent hepatitis, chronic active hepatitis, cirrhosis, or hepatocellular\ncarcinoma.\n\nMost cases of chronic persistent hepatitis (CPH) are probably the result of\na viral infection, although in a good number of cases the cause cannot be\ndetermined. The diagnosis of CPH is made on the basis of liver biopsy. It\nconsists of findings of portal inflammation, an intact periportal limiting\nplate, and on occasion isolated foci of intralobular necrosis. But in contrast\nto chronic active hepatitis (CAH) there is no periportal inflammation, \nbridging necrosis, or fibrosis. \n\nCPH has, indeed, an excellent prognosis. If I had to choose between CAH and\nCPH there is no question I would also choose CPH. However, as David pointed\nout, the distinction between the two is not as neat as some of us would have\nit. The histology can sometimes be pretty equivocal, with biopsies showing\nareas compatible with both CPH and CAH. Maybe it is a sampling problem. Maybe\nit is a continuum. I don\'t know.\n\n=================================\n\nHoward Doyle\ndoyle+@pitt.edu\n\n\n',
"From: res4w@galen.med.Virginia.EDU (Robert E. Schmieg)\nSubject: Re: Deadly NyQuil???\nOrganization: University of Virginia\nLines: 35\n\nbitn@kimbark.uchicago.edu writes:\n> My friend insists that Ny-Quil can be deadly if enough is taken -- he\n> suggested something like 20-30 of the Night-time gelcaps would do someone\n> in. Being a NORMAL user of Ny-Quil :), I checked the 'ingredients' and\n> have a very hard time believing it. They are:\n> \n> 250 g acetaminophen\n ^^^^^^^^^^\n> 30 mg Pseudoephedrine HCl\n> 10 mg Dextromethorphan HBr\n> 6.25 mg Doxylamine Succinate\n> (per softgel)\n> \n> Can someone settle our bet (a package of Ny-Quil of course :) -- what \n> effect would 20-30 of these babies have?\n\nThe acetaminophen is the agent of concern in overdose of this\nOTC medication. A single dose of acetaminophen of 10 grams or greater\ncan cause hepatotoxicity, and doses of 25 grams or more are\npotentially fatal from hepatic necrosis. If I recall\ncorrectly, the metabolism of acetaminophen at high doses\ninvolves N-hydroxylation to N-acetyl-benzoquinoneimine, which\nis a highly reactive intermediate, which then reacts with\nsulfhydryl groups of proteins and glutathione. When hepatic\nglutathione is used up, this intermediate then starts\nattacking the hepatic proteins with resulting hepatic\nnecrosis. The insidious part of acetaminophen toxicity is the\ndelay (2-4 days) between ingestion and clinical signs of liver\ndamage. This is NOT a nice way to die.\n\nAs to taking 20-30 of these tablets, that comes to 5-7.5 grams\nof acetaminophen. In a normal adult, this would probably\ncause nausea, vomiting, abdominal pain, and loss of appetite.\n\nBob Schmieg\n",
"From: mutrh@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (Todd R. Haverstock)\nSubject: Re: REQUEST: Gyro (souvlaki) sauce\nOrganization: Educational Computing Network\nLines: 23\nNNTP-Posting-Host: uxa.ecn.bgu.edu\n\nIn article <1993Apr23.181051.4023@donner.SanDiego.NCR.COM> davel@davelpcSanDiego.NCR.com (Dave Lord) writes:\n>In article <1r8pcn$rm1@terminator.rs.itd.umich.edu>, Donald Mackie\n><Donald_Mackie@med.umich.edu> writes:\n>> In article <1993Apr22.205341.172965@locus.com> Michael Trofimoff,\n>> tron@fafnir.la.locus.com writes:\n>> >Would anyone out there in 'net-land' happen to have an\n>> >authentic, sure-fire way of making this great sauce that\n>> >is used to adorn Gyro's and Souvlaki?\n>> \n>> I'm not sure of the exact recipe, but I'm sure acidophilus is one of\n>> the major ingredients. :-)\n>\n>It's plain yoghurt with grated cucumber and coriander (other spices are\n>sometimes used). Some people use half yoghurt and half mayonaise.\n\nIn the kind I have made I used a Lite sour cream instead of yogurt. May not\nbe as good for you, but I prefer the taste. A few small bits of cuke in\naddition to the grated cuke may also finish the sauce off nicely.\n\n\n---\nTRH\nmutrh@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu\n",
"From: tony@scotty.dccs.upenn.edu (Anthony Olejnik)\nSubject: How to dispose of old blessed palms?\nOrganization: University of Pennsylvania\nLines: 10\n\nWhat is the proper way to dispose of old blessed palms?\nI`ve have a bunch that I`ve been holding onto. In addition,\nmy mom has been giving me her's. I used to give them to my\nuncle who would burn them (and leave the ashes to seep into the\nground). Should I do the same? Could I just bury them? Could\nI add them to my compost bin?\n\nThanks in advance.\n\n--tony\n",
'From: livesey@solntze.wpd.sgi.com (Jon Livesey)\nSubject: Re: Yet more Rushdie [Re: ISLAMIC LAW]\nOrganization: sgi\nLines: 27\nDistribution: world\nNNTP-Posting-Host: solntze.wpd.sgi.com\n\nIn article <116533@bu.edu>, jaeger@buphy.bu.edu (Gregg Jaeger) writes:\n|> In article <1r2idi$6e1@fido.asd.sgi.com> livesey@solntze.wpd.sgi.com (Jon Livesey) writes:\n|> \n|> >So now you are saying that an Islamic Bank is something other than\n|> >BCCI.\n|> \n|> >Would you care to explain why it was that when I said "I hope an \n|> >Islamic Bank is something other than BCCI", you called me a childish \n|> >propagandist.\n|> \n|> Yes, sure, because the only obvious reason anyone would make the jump from\n|> "BCCI" to "Islamic bank" is by associating Islamic banking with muslim \n|> ownership.\n\nBut in this case I said I hoped that BCCI was *not* an Islamic bank.\n\n|> And the only reason one would generalize from a _given_\n|> Islamic bank to _all_ Islamic banks is through a stereotype -- one\n|> X is bad, therefore all X\'s are bad.\n\nBut in this case I said I hoped that BCCI was *not* an Islamic bank.\n\n|> Next think you know there is a Bosnia on tap.\n\nBut in this case I said I hoped that BCCI was *not* an Islamic bank.\n\njon.\n',
'From: rigby@echo.unr.edu (Wayne Rigby)\nSubject: Re: Need gif/iff file format\nOrganization: University of Nevada, Reno Department of Computer Science\nLines: 22\n\nIn article <1rkjm5$i2q@bigboote.WPI.EDU> rtaraz@bigwpi.WPI.EDU (Ramin Taraz) writes:\n>Could somebody please _email_ me some info on either what gif or iff\n>file formats are, or where I can get such info?\n\nWell, GIF stands for Graphics Interchange Format and was put forth by\nCompuserve back in 1987(?) or so. It was to create a format that could be\nread and displayed by any system. GIF is limited to 8 bit color but has\na built in compression scheme (LZW?).\n\nIFF is not really a graphics format, but rather a standard way to package\nimages, sounds, animations, text, or whatever into one file. IFF was\ncreated by Electronic Arts, I do believe (I could be wrong), for the Amiga.\nIt was quickly adopted as pretty much the standard file format for the Amiga.\nThe most common image format for the IFF package is an ILBM (InterLeaved\nBitMap?) but many others exist. This format supports 24 bit color images.\n\nInformation on both of these and many more are available via anonymous ftp at\nzamenhof.cs.rice.edu in the directory /pub/graphics.formats\n(Taken from the FAQ for this news group.) :)\n\nWayne Rigby\nrigby@cs.unr.edu\n',
"From: da1-lst@hemul.nada.kth.se (Lars-Erik Stenholm)\nSubject: Parametric Drafting\nOrganization: Royal Institute of Technology, Stockholm, Sweden\nLines: 24\nNntp-Posting-Host: hemul.nada.kth.se\n\n\nHello networld!\n\nI'm looking for documentation/books on parametric drafting.\n\nDoes anyone know of such material, electronic on a Gopher/ftp-site\nor books/authors.\n\nIm not looking for commercial software rather info on implementation \nand theory of the subject. Im planning to make a parametric\ngenerator for autocad and i would need some referance.\n\nEverything you know is of interest!\n\nThanks in advace!!\n\n//Lasse\n\n\n\n\n-- \n---\nLars-Erik Stenholm, Student at the University Of Stockholm, Sweden.\n",
'From: perry@dsinc.com (Jim Perry)\nSubject: Re: Who Says the Apostles Were Tortured?\nOrganization: Decision Support Inc.\nLines: 30\nDistribution: world\nNNTP-Posting-Host: bozo.dsinc.com\n\nAnother article that fell between the cracks:\n\nIn article <1qiu97INNpq6@srvr1.engin.umich.edu> ingles@engin.umich.edu (Ray Ingles) writes:\n As evidence for the Resurrection, it is often claimed that the Disciples\nwere tortured to death for their beliefs and still did not renounce\ntheir claim that Jesus had come back from the dead.\n Now, I skimmed Acts and such, and I found a reference to this happening\nto Stephen, but no others. Where does this apparently very widely held\nbelief come from? Is there any evidence outside the Bible? Is there any\nevidence *in* the Bible? I sure haven\'t found any...\n\nBriefly, no. There is widespread folklore, but no good documentary\nevidence, or even solid rumor, concerning the deaths of the Apostles.\nFurther, the usual context of such arguments, as you observe, is "No\nMartyrs for a Lie": i.e. the willingness of these people to die rather\nthan recant is evidence for the truth of their belief. This adds the\nquite stronger twist that the proposed martyrs must have been offered\nthe chance of life by recanting. Since we don\'t even know how or\nwhere they died, we certainly don\'t have this information. (By the\nway, even in the case of Stephen it is not at all clear that he could\nhave saved himself by recanting). The willingness of true believers\nto die for their belief, be it in Jesus or Jim Jones, is\nwell-documented, so martyrdom in and of itself says little. [See\n1Kings18:20-40 for a Biblical account of the martyrdom of 450 priests\nof Baal].\n\n\n-- \nJim Perry perry@dsinc.com Decision Support, Inc., Matthews NC\nThese are my opinions. For a nominal fee, they can be yours.\n',
'From: kmldorf@utdallas.edu (George Kimeldorf)\nSubject: Re: Opinions on Allergy (Hay Fever) shots?\nNntp-Posting-Host: heath.utdallas.edu\nOrganization: Univ. of Texas at Dallas\nLines: 20\n\nIn article <1993Apr22.143929.26131@midway.uchicago.edu> jacquier@gsbux1.uchicago.edu (Eric Jacquier ) writes:\n>\n>I am interested in trying this "desensitization" (?) method\n>against hay fever.\n>What is the state of affairs about this. I went to a doctor and\n>paid $85 for a 10 minute interview + 3 scratches, leading to the\n>diagnostic that I am allergic to (June and Timothy) grass.\n>I believe this. From now on it looks like 2 shots per week for\n>6 months followed by 1 shot per month or so. Each shot costs\n>$20. Talking about soaring costs and the Health care system, I would\n>call that a racket. We are not talking about rare Amazonian grasses\n>here, but the garbage which grows behind the doctor\'s office.\n>Apart from this issue, I was somewhat disappointed to find out\n>that you have to keep getting the shots forever. Is that right?\n>Thanks for information.\n>\n>\nGo to your public library and get the February, 1988 issue of Consumer\nReports. An article on allergy shots begins on page 96. This article\nis MUST reading for anyone contemplating allergy shots.\n',
'From: creps@lateran.ucs.indiana.edu (Stephen A. Creps)\nSubject: Re: The doctrine of Original Sin\nOrganization: Indiana University\nLines: 31\n\nIn article <May.11.02.39.02.1993.28325@athos.rutgers.edu> Eugene.Bigelow@ebay.sun.com writes:\n>>This all obviously applies equally well to infants or adults, since\n>>both have souls. Infants must be baptized, therefore, or they cannot\n>>enter into Heaven. They too need this form of life in them, or they\n>>cannot enter into Heaven.\n>\n>Are you saying that baptism has nothing to do with asking Jesus to come into\n>your heart and accepting him as your savior, but is just a ritual that we\n>must go through to enable us to enter Heaven?\n\n I don\'t think Joe was saying any such thing. However, your question\non "asking Jesus to come into your heart" seems to imply that infants\nare not allowed to have Christ in theirs. Why must Baptism always be\nviewed by some people as a sort of "prodigal son" type of thing; i.e. a\nsudden change of heart, going from not accepting Christ to suddenly\naccepting Christ? Why can\'t people start out with Christ from shortly\nafter birth, and build their relationship from there? After all, does\na man suddenly meet a woman, and then marry her that same day? From my\nexperiences, I\'ve learned that all relationships must be built,\nincluding one\'s relationship with God.\n\n Also Joe is speaking from the standpoint that Baptism is not just a\nritual, but that through it God bestows sacramental grace upon the\nrecipient. Certainly for those with the mental faculties to know Christ\nit is necessary to believe in Him. However, the Sacrament itself\nbestows grace on the recipient, and makes a permanent mark of adoption\ninto God\'s family on the soul.\n\n-\t-\t-\t-\t-\t-\t-\t-\t-\t-\nSteve Creps, Indiana University\ncreps@lateran.ucs.indiana.edu\n',
"From: mcovingt@aisun3.ai.uga.edu (Michael Covington)\nSubject: Re: Urine analysis\nNntp-Posting-Host: aisun3.ai.uga.edu\nOrganization: AI Programs, University of Georgia, Athens\nLines: 16\n\nIn article <1rm2bn$kps@transfer.stratus.com> Randy_Faneuf@vos.stratus.com writes:\n>\n> Someone please help me. I am searching to find out (as many others may)\n>an absolute 'cure' to removing all detectable traces of marijuana from\n>a persons body. Is there a chemical or natural substance that can be\n>ingested or added to urine to make it undetectable in urine analysis.\n>If so where can these substances be found. \n\nYou could do what I do: never go near the stuff! :)\n\n\n-- \n:- Michael A. Covington, Associate Research Scientist : *****\n:- Artificial Intelligence Programs mcovingt@ai.uga.edu : *********\n:- The University of Georgia phone 706 542-0358 : * * *\n:- Athens, Georgia 30602-7415 U.S.A. amateur radio N4TMI : ** *** ** <><\n",
'From: Anthony Lest <lest@ucsu.Colorado.EDU>\nSubject: 2nd CFV: soc.religion.islam.ahmadiyya moderated\nOrganization: colorado.edu\nLines: 249\n\tgwydion@gnu.ai.mit.edu\nNNTP-Posting-Host: rodan.uu.net\n\n CALL FOR VOTES\n\nThis is the official 2nd Call For Votes for this newsgroup.\n\nNAME OF PROPOSED NEWSGROUP: \n==========================\n\n soc.religion.islam.ahmadiyya\n\n\nCHARTER: \n=======\n\n A religious newsgroup, which would mainly be devoted to \nfostering an understanding and appraisal of the Ahmadiyya Muslim\nCommunity, its beliefs, ideology and philosophy. It will also \ndiscuss the distinction between Ahmadiyya Muslim Community and \nother branches of Islam.\n \n In addition this newsgroup will also discuss the beliefs, \nteachings, and philosophy of all the other major religions to pro-\nmote universal religious appreciation, awareness, and tolerance.\n\n The newsgroup may also be used to post important religious\nevents within the world wide Ahmadiyya Islamic Community.\n\n\nVOTING INSTRUCTIONS: \n====================\n\nVoting is being held since the first call for votes appeared (May 4, 1993),\nand will continue untill May 25, 1993 (23:59:59 GMT)\n\nAll votes should be received within this period. It gives a total\nof 21 days for all to vote.\n\nAll votes in _favor_ of creation of the proposed newsgroup should\nbe sent in a form of a e-mail message to:\n\n \n SRIA-YES@UCSU.COLORADO.EDU\n\n\nwith a clear statement in the body of the message like:\n\n I vote YES for soc.religion.islam.ahmadiyya\n I vote in favor of s.r.i.a.\n etc.\n\nSimilarly all votes _against_ the proposed newsgroup should be \nsent in a form of a e-mail message to:\n\n\n SRIA-NO@UCSU.COLORADO.EDU\n\n\nwith a clear statement in the body of the message like:\n\n I vote NO for soc.religion.islam.ahmadiyya\n I vote against the creation of s.r.i.a.\n etc.\n\n\n* You may also include your vote in the SUBJECT header of your mail.\n\n* Please make sure to include your FULL NAME, if your mailer does\n not do that for you. \n\n* One person may only vote ONCE. No matter how many e-mail accounts\n s/he has. Only one vote per person shall be considered valid.\n\n* Any ambiguous votes like "I vote YES for S.R.I.A., if ...." shall \n only be considered comments and would NOT be counted as votes.\n\n* Votes received _after_ 23:59:59 GMT, on May 25, 1993, will not\n be valid and not counted.\n\n* In the event of multiple votes being received from the same\n person, only the last one will be counted. If you change your \n mind regarding the way you have voted, send your new vote again,\n your previous vote shall be discarded.\n \n* Posting to USENET will NOT be counted a vote.\n\n* Please DO NOT send any votes to the e-mail address of the per-\n son who has posted this CVF. Those votes shall not be counted\n either.\n\n\nNOTE: An acknowledgement shall be sent to everyone who votes.Two \nadditional CFV\'s will be posted during the course of the vote.\nNumber(s) of "YES" or "NO" votes will not be disclosed during the\nthe voting period, at the end of which all votes shall be made\npublic.\n\n\nPURPOSE OF THE NEWSGROUP: \n========================\n\n The following are the main purposes this group shall achieve:\n\n i) To highlight the common beliefs of all major religions \n and philosophical traditions as they relate to Ahmadiyya \n Muslim Community.\n\n ii) To discuss the doctrines, origin and teachings the Ahmad-\n iyya Muslim Community, a dynamic world-wide movement.\n\n iii) To expound Islamic teachings and beliefs in the Holy \n Quran and Islamic traditions from the Ahmadiyya Islamic\n perspective.\n\n iv) To emphasize and discuss the similarities between Ahmadi \n Muslims and followers of other religions of the world and \n to explore how understanding and respect for each other\'s\n faith can be brought about to eliminate religious intol-\n erance and malice among people of all religious and phil-\n osophical traditions.\n \n v) To look into the origin and teachings of all religions in\n general and of Islam and Ahmadiyya Muslim Movement in par-\n ticular, and to use the commonality of origin to foster\n better understanding among Ahmadi Muslims and other people\n and to promote an acceptance of universality of fundamental\n rights to the freedom of conscience.\n\n vi) To point out current world problems and suggest solutions \n to these problems, as offered by different religions and \n systems of ethical philosophies.\n\n vii) To investigate the implications of science on religion \n with particular emphasis on the Ahmadi Muslim perspective,\n but with openness to dialogue with people of all religions\n and philosophical traditions with reasoned positions as to\n the relationship between religion and empirical science,\n logic, and scientific ethics. \n \n viii) To exchange important news and views about the Ahmadiyya\n Muslim Community and of other religions.\n\n ix) To add diversity to the existing religious newsgroups pre- \n sent on Usenet in the interest of promoting a forum for\n decorous dialogue. \n\n x) To inquire why religious persecution is on the rise in the\n world and suggest solutions to remedy the ever deterior-\n ating situation in the world in general and in the Islamic\n world in particular. \n\n xi) To commemorate the contributions to humanity, society and\n world peace made by the founders and followers of all\n religions in general and by the International Ahmadiyya\n Muslim community in particular.\n\n\nTYPE: \n====\n\nThe group will be MODERATED for orderly and free religious dialo-\ngue. The moderation will NOT prevent disagreement, dissent, or \ncontroversy based on a difference of beliefs or doctrine; rather,\nthe moderators will seek mainly to discourage gratuitously deroga-\ntory, abusive, or squalid language, and the introduction of issues\nwhich are irrelevant based on the provisions of this charter. \n\nThe moderators have been chosen through personal e-mail and through\na general consensus among the proponents by discussion in news.groups.\nThe following moderators have been proposed and agreed upon:\n\nModerator: Nabeel A. Rana <rana@rintintin.colorado.edu>\nCo-Moderator: Dr. Tahir Ijaz <ijaz@ccu.umanitoba.ca>\n\n\n\nA BRIEF DESCRIPTION ABOUT AHMADIYYA ISLAM:\n===============================================\n\n\n The Ahmadiyya Movement in Islam, an international organi-\nsation, was found in 1889 in Qadian, India. The founder of this\nmovement, Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad (1835-1908), was proclaimed to \nbe the Promised Reformer of this age as foretold in the Scriptures\nof almost all major religions of the world. He claimed to be the \nfulfillment of the long awaited second comming of Jesus Christ\n(metaphorically), the Muslim Mahdi, and the Promised Messiah.\n\n The claims of Hazrat Ahmad raised storms of hostility and\nextreme opposition, which are often witnessed in the history of \ndivine reformers. Even today this sect is being persecuted especial-\nly in some of the Muslim regimes. The right of Ahmadi Muslims to \nopenly practice their religion and to define themselves as Muslims\nhas been severely restricted in many Muslim Countries. The United\nNations, human rights organizations such as Amnesty International\nand top leaderships of some countries have voiced their concerns \nagainst this denial of basic human and civil liberaties to the\nmembers of this movement, but so far to no avail.\n\n Despite the opposition and persecution, the movement cont-\ninues to grow with a current membership of millions from around the\nworld in over 130 countries, who come from diverse ethnic and cul-\ntural backgrounds.\n\n The movement is devoted to world peace and strives towards\ndeveloping a better understanding of all religions. Ahmadi Muslims\nhave always been opposed to all forms of violence, bigotry, reli-\ngious intolerance and fundamentalism.\n\n Among its many philanthropic activities, the sect has es-\ntablished a network of hundreds of schools, hospitals, and clinics\nin many third world countries. These institutions are staffed by\nvolunteer professionals and are fully financed by the movement\'s\ninternal resources. The movement stresses the importance of educa-\ntion and leadership. Its members have included a high number of\nprofessionals as well as world class individuals.\n\n The Ahmadiyya mission is to bring about a universal moral\nreform, establish peace and justice, and to unite mankind under\none universal brotherhood.\n\n\nNEWSGROUP CREATION: \n==================\n\n The discussion for this proposed newsgroup has now offi-\ncially ended. Voting will be held for three weeks. If the news-\ngroup gets 2/3rd majority AND 100 more "YES/Create" votes than\n"NO/don\'t create" votes; the newsgroup shall be created. \n\n\nABOUT THE VOTE-TAKER: \n====================\n\n Mr. Anthony Lest has been asked by the proponents of\nthis newsgroup to act as an official impartial vote-taker for the\nproposed newsgroup. He has no objection to use his workstation\nfor the purpose of vote-taking. Neither the University of Colora-\ndo, nor Anthony Lest has anything to do with the proposal of the\nnewsgroup. They are just collecting the votes as a neutral third\nparty.\n\nQUESTIONS OR COMMENTS:\n=====================\n\n Any questions or comments about the proposed newsgroup\nmay be sent to:\n Nabeel A. Rana <rana@rintintin.colorado.edu>\n\n Any questions or problems in voting should be sent to:\n Anthony Lest <lest@ucsu.colorado.edu>\n',
'From: vax839@tid.es (Juan Carlos Cuesta Cuesta)\nSubject: AUTOCAD GRAPHICS CONVERTER\nReply-To: vax839@tid.es\nOrganization: Telefonica I+D\nX-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4\nLines: 8\n\n\n Could anybody tell me if exists any program to convert AUTOCAD graphics to\nanother format (GIF, TIFF, BMP, PCX ...) and where to get it?\n\n\tThanks in advance\n\n\tJ. C. Cuesta Cuesta\n\tTIDSA - Madrid (Spain)\n',
'From: plastic@ecr.mu.oz.au (Jason_Brinsley LEE)\nSubject: 25 words or less....\nOrganization: Computer Science, University of Melbourne, Australia\nLines: 13\n\nEverywhere we see and hear about christianity (due to its\nevangalistic nature). Witnessing, spreading the gospel, etc.\nBut what I want to know is...\n\n"Why should I (or anyone else) become a Christian?"\n\n(In twenty five words or less).\n\n\tZeros and Ones will take us there....\n\tpeace. plastic. 1993.\n\n[We\'ve had enough discussions about evidence recently that it would\nprobably be best to respond via email. --clh]\n',
'From: torb@mack.uit.no (Tor Berger)\nSubject: 8th SCIA\nLines: 306\nOrganization: University of Tromsoe\n\n Invitation to the 8th SCIA\n\nThe 8th Scandinavian Conference on Image Analysis will be\narranged by the Norwegian Society for Image Processing and\nPattern Recognition (NOBIM) and sponsored by the International\nAssociation for Pattern Recognition (IAPR). The conference\nwill be held in Tromsoe from 25th-28th May 1993. Tromsoe,\nlocated at latitude 69 degrees N, is Northern Norway\'s centre\nfor administration and education.\n\nAbout the Programme\nThe scientific programme runs over four days and includes\n6 invited speakers, 29 sessions in three parallel tracks\nwith 127 contributed papers and 4 poster sessions with 44\ncontributions. The conference covers the following topics:\n - Image Processing and Analysis\n - Pattern Recognition\n - Computer Vision\n - Parallel Algorithms and Architectures\n - Neural Nets\n - Matching Methods\n - Image Compression\n - Remote Sensing\n - Medical and Biological Applications\n - Industrial Applications\n\nConference Language\nThe official language of the conference is English.\n\nInvited Talks and Speakers\n\nSegmentation of Range Images Via Data\nFusion and Morphological Watersheds.\nProfessor Ralph Gonzalez\nUniversity of Tennessee, Knoxville\n\nObject Recognition Using Range Images.\nProfessor Anil K. Jain\nMichigan State University\n\nExperiments in Mobile Robot Navigation and Range Imaging.\nDr. Judd Jones\nOak Ridge National Laboratory\n\nImage Compression.\nProfessor Tor Ramstad\nUniversity of Trondheim\n\nCombining Evidence in Dictionary\nBased Probabilistic Relaxation.\nProfessor J. Kittler\nUniversity of Surrey\n\nMatching Methods.\nProfessor A. Sanfeliu\nPolytechnic University of Catalonia\n\nWorkshop\nIn connection with the conference, a workshop on contextual\nmethods in pattern recognition will be arranged on monday\n24th by IAPR TC1. For further information concerning the\nworkshop contact\nTorfinn Taxt, Chairman TC1,\nUniv. of Bergen,\nN-5000 Bergen,\nNorway.\nPhone: +47 5 20 63 34\nFax: +47 5 20 63 60\nE-mail: Torfinn.Taxt@cc.uib.no\n\nRegistration Information\nThe registration fee is 4000 NOK. The fee covers proceedings, entrance\nto all oral and poster sessions, exhibition, lunches and coffee\nbreaks, get-together party, reception and banquet. Fees for\naccompanying persons are presented in the registration form.\nAll payments must be made payable in Norwegian Kroner (NOK)\nby SWIFT to "XIANNOKKTRM" or Bank Giro Service at Bank Account:\n6420 05 13353, "SAS Conference FORUT", Christiania Bank og\nKreditkasse (Private cheques will not be accepted.) or by the\nfollowing credit cards: VISA, Mastercard, Eurocard, Diners,\nAccess, American Express. \nPlease note: For payment with SWIFT and Bank Giro Service made\n from abroad, please add banking fee of NOK 60,-.\nPlease remember to state 8SCIA and your name on all money\ntransfers!\n\nRegistration and Information\nThe Conference Secretariat will be available all four days of\nthe conference for registration and information\nMay 24th, 1600:2000, in the SAS Hotel.\nMay 25th-28th, at the University.\n\nExhibition\nAn exhibition of relevant literature will be arranged.\nPublishers are invited to exhibit their products. A visit\nto local companies and institutions involved in the field\n(mostly remote sensing) will be arranged.\n\nAccommodation\nReservation for hotel accommodation can be made on the\nregistration form. The 8SCIA Conference Secretariat at\nSAS Luftreisebyraa, att. Bodil Lauritsen, will provide\nhotel accommodation for the participants.\n\nSocial Events\nMonday, May 24th:\nGet-together party. (included in the conference fee for\ndelegates, NOK 150,- for accompanying persons)\n\nTuesday, May 25th\nFishing trip. The tour will last for 5-6 hours and hopefully\nthe midnight sun will visit us. On board the boat there will\nbe music, food and drink by choice. We bring fishing rods and\nit will be possible to have our own fish prepared on board.\n(NOK 400,-)\nSpouse programme: Visit by cable car to Storsteinen 420 meters\nabove sea level, visit to the Arctic Cathedral, and visit to\nTromsoe Museum. (NOK 205,-) \n\nWednesday, May 26th\nDue to the cancellation of the Svalbard flight we will arrange\na visit to the "Beerhall". (NOK 350,- including beer and food.)\nSpouse programme: Visit to a fishfarm in the surroundings of\nTromsoe. (NOK 170,-)\n\nThursday, May 27th\nBanquet. (Included in the conference fee for delegates,\naccompanying persons NOK 500,- )\nSpouse programme: Visit to the Northern Lights Planetarium and\nthe Polar Museum. (NOK 180,-)\nThe spouse programs need a minimum of 15 participants to be\narranged.\n\nPost conference tours with visit to Lyngen or Finnmark and\nNorh Cape will also be arranged. For more information about\nthe social program and the post conference tours see the\nregistration form and information included with the\nregistration form.\n\nWeather and Dress\nThe weather in Tromsoe in late May can be everything from\n24 hour sunshine with a maximum temperature of 20 degrees Celsius\nto snowstorms with temperatures below freezing. It is\ntherefore recommended to bring some warmer clothes.\n\nLocal Information\nThe population is approximately 50 000. In Tromsoe you can take\npart in many activities from mountaineering in the midnight\nsun to late night fun in international restaurants and bars.\nAn afternoon local beer in the Beerhall of the world\'s\nnorthernmost brewery is also recommended.\n\nThe 8th Scandinavian Conference on Image Analysis (8SCIA) will\nbe held at the university campus at the world\'s northernmost\nuniversity. There will be conference buses going to the campus\nfrom within walking distances of all the hotels. More detailed\ninformation about the locations and transport will be available\nat the conference hotels.\n\nTravel Information\nTromsoe Airport at Langnes is only 7-8 minutes drive from the\ncentre of Tromsoe. The travelling distance from Oslo is 1 hr\n40 minutes. SAS Conference Support Tromsoe offers airticket\nservices for the conference. In addition to all standard terms\nfull and reduced fare tickets from Europe and overseas,\n(reduced fares require that you stay in Scandinavia the night\nbetween Saturday and Sunday), we can offer additional conference\nfares for SAS flights from SAS destinations within Scandinavia,\nand reduced fares on Norwegian domestic flights. If you want to\nmake use of this service please contact Bodil Lauritsen at the\nConference Secretariat.\n\nConference Secretariat\n SAS Luftreisebyraa Tromsoe\n Att.: Bodil Lauritsen\n P. O Box 437\n N-9001 Tromsoe\n Norway\n Phone: +47 83 10 700\n Fax: +47 83 10 701\n\nNote that reduced airticket fares can not be obtained on flights to \nScandinavia if you don\'t stay the night between Saturday and Sunday \n(in front of or after the conference). On the other hand you don\'t have\nto stay that night in Tromso to obtain reduced fares within Scandinavia\n(SAS flights).\n\n<------------------------------- cut here ------------------------------>\n\n REGISTRATION FORM\n The 8\'th Scandinavian Conference on Image Analysis\n Tromso, Norway, May 25th-28th 1993\n\nPlease use block letters or type, and fill in one form for each parti-\ncipant. Completed registration form for accompanying person is to be\nattached to the registration form of the delegate.\n Mr <>\n Mrs <>\n\nFirst name and surname:.............................................\n\nCompany/Institution:................................................\n\nTitle:..................\n\nMailing address:...................................................\n\nPostal code/Country:...............................................\n\nTelephone:....................Telefax:.............................\n\nDelegate: <> Accompanying person: <> (please tick for right category)\n \nWorkshop on contextual methods in pattern recognition,\n Monday, May 24th: <>\n\nConference fee, delegates: NOK 4000,- ->\n\nSocial events (please tick for participating!)\n<> Get-together Party, Monday 24th\n (Included in the conference fee for delegates)\n Accompanying person NOK 150,- -> \n<> Spouse Programme, Tuesday, May 25th * NOK 205,- ->\n<> Spouse Programme, Wednesday, May 26th * NOK 170,- ->\n<> Spouse Programme, Thursday, May 27th * NOK 180,- ->\n<> Boat-trip, Tuesday, May 25th NOK 400,- ->\n<> Banquet, Thursday, May 27th \n (Included in the conference fee for delegates)\n Accompanying person NOK 500,- ->\n<> Visit to the Beerhall, Wednesday, May 26th * NOK 350,- ->\n<> Post Conference Tour, Lyngen * NOK 895,- ->\n<> Post Conference Tour, Finnmark/North Cape * NOK 4250,- ->\n(* we need a minimum number of participants to \n accomplish these tours)\n----------------------------------------------------------------------------\n\nTotal amount for my participation: NOK ____________\n\nPAYMENT:\nPayment can be made by: SWIFT to "XIANNOKKTRM" or \nBank Giro Service at Bank Account: 6420 05 13353, "SAS Conference FORUT",\nChristiania Bank og Kreditkasse, Gronnegt. 80, N-9000 Tromso, Norway.\n(Private cheques will not be accepted.) or by credit card:\n VISA <> Mastercard <> Eurocard <> Diners <> Access <> American Express <>\n\nAccount Number:___________________________ Expiration Date:________________\n\nSignature:____________________________________________\n\nPlease note: For payment with SWIFT and Bank Giro Service made from abroad,\n please add banking fee of NOK 60,-.\nPlease remember to state 8SCIA and your name on all money transfers!\n\nACCOMODATION:\n (Payment to be made upon arrival)\n(Weekend= Friday-Sunday). \nDeadline for cancellation of the hotel room: 24 hours before arrival.\n\nIf you would like us to book your accomodation in Tromso, please fill in:\n\nDate of arrival:____________________ Date of departure:____________________\nSAS Royal Hotel <> Single a 1190,- <> Double a 1390,-\n (weekend 750,-) (weekend 900,-)\nGrand Nordic Hotel <> Single a 1015,- <> Double a 1175,-\n (weekend 760,-) (weekend 880,-)\nWith Home Hotel <> Single a 975,- <> Double a 1085,-\nSAGA Hotel <> Single a 870,- <> Double a 1045,-\nPolar Hotel <> Single a 680,- <> Double a 800,-\n (weekend 450,-) (weekend 550,-)\nTromso Hotel <> Single a 680,- <> Double a 800,-\n (weekend 450,-) (weekend 550,-)\nSkipperhuset Pension <> Single a 330,- <> Double a 410,-\n <> Triple a 480,-\nHotel Nord <> Single a 300,- <> Double a 400,-\n <> Triple a 500,-\nPrivate Accomodation <> Single a 150,- <> Double a 200,-\n\nI will arrange accomodation on my own: <>\nIf my first choice is not available, I wish to stay at:_____________________\n\nAirtickets: SAS Conference Support Tromso offers airticket services for the\nconference. In addition to all standard terms full and reduced fare tickets\nfrom Europe and overseas, (reduced fares require that you stay in Scandinavia\nthe night between Saturday and Sunday), we can offer additional conference\nfares for SAS flights from SAS destinations within Scandinavia, and reduced\nfares on norwegian domestic flights. If you want to make use of this service\nplease fill in the following:\n\nPoint of departure and return:______________________________________________\n\nDate of departure:___________________ Date of return: _____________________\nI will arrange airtickets on my own: <> (Please tick!)\n\n For further information, please contact:\n Kjell Arild Hogda, 8SCIA Local Chair,\n FORUT Information technology Ltd, N-9005 Tromso, Norway.\n Telephone: +47 83 58622. Telefax: +47 83 82420\n e-mail: scia@conan.uit.no\n\n Please forward this registration form to:\n SAS Luftreisebyra Tromso, Att: Bodil Lauritsen\n P.O. Box 437, N-9001 Tromso, Norway,\n Telephone: +47 83 10700. Telefax: +47 83 10701\n\n\nDate and signature:_________________________________________________________\n\n',
"From: beck@irzr17.inf.tu-dresden.de (Andre Beck)\nSubject: Re: POV problems with tga outputs\nOrganization: Dept. of Computer Science, TU Dresden, Germany.\nLines: 10\nDistribution: world\nReply-To: Andre_Beck@IRS.Inf.TU-Dresden.DE\nNNTP-Posting-Host: irzr17.inf.tu-dresden.de\n\n\nRemember that the UNIX versions of PoV don't create TGA but QRT file\nformat output by default. +ft is needed to make TGA.\n\n--\n+-o-+--------------------------------------------------------------+-o-+\n| o | \\\\\\- Brain Inside -/// | o |\n| o | ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ | o |\n| o | Andre' Beck (ABPSoft) mehl: Andre_Beck@IRS.Inf.TU-Dresden.de | o |\n+-o-+--------------------------------------------------------------+-o-+\n",
"From: shellgate!llo@uu4.psi.com (Larry L. Overacker)\nSubject: Re: Mormon temples\nOrganization: Shell Oil\nLines: 17\n\nIn article <May.11.02.38.41.1993.28297@athos.rutgers.edu> mserv@mozart.cc.iup.edu (Mail Server) writes:\n\n>I don't necessarily object to the secrecy but I do question it, since I see no \n>Biblical reason why any aspect of Christian worship should involve secrecy. \n\nEarly in Church history, the catechumens were dismissed prior to the celebration \nof the Eucharist. It WAS secret, giving rise to the rumors that Christians\nwere cannibals and all sorts of perverse claims. The actions were considered\ntoo holy to be observed by non-Christians, as well as potentially dangerous\nfor the individual Christian who might be identified.\n\nLarry Overacker (llo@shell.com)\n-- \n-------\nLawrence Overacker\nShell Oil Company, Information Center Houston, TX (713) 245-2965\nllo@shell.com\n",
'From: hayesstw@risc1.unisa.ac.za (Steve Hayes)\nSubject: Kingdom theology\nOrganization: University of South Africa\nLines: 25\n\nUntil recently I always understood the term "kingdom theology" to mean the \ntheology of the kingdom of God, but now I have discovered that there is a \nnew and more specialized meaning. I gather that it is also called "Dominion \ntheology", and that it has to do with a belief that Christians must create a \ntheocratic form of government on earth before Christ will come again.\n\nI have not come across anyone who believes or advocates this, but I am told \nthat it is a very widespread belief in the USA.\n\nCan anyone give me any more information about it?\n\nHere are some of my questions:\n\n1. Is it the teaching of any particular denomination? If so, which?\n2. Where and when does it start?\n3. Are there any particular publications that propagate it?\n4. Are there any organizations that propagate it?\n\n============================================================\nSteve Hayes, Department of Missiology & Editorial Department\nUniv. of South Africa, P.O. Box 392, Pretoria, 0001 South Africa\nInternet: hayesstw@risc1.unisa.ac.za Fidonet: 5:7101/20\n steve.hayes@p5.f22.n7101.z5.fidonet.org\nFAQ: Missiology is the study of Christian mission and is part of\n the Faculty of Theology at Unisa\n',
"From: nyeda@cnsvax.uwec.edu (David Nye)\nSubject: Re: He has risen!\nOrganization: University of Wisconsin Eau Claire\nLines: 16\n\n[reply to kmr4@po.CWRU.edu (Keith M. Ryan)]\n \n>Our Lord and Savior David Keresh has risen!\n \n>He has been seen alive!\n \n>Spread the word!\n \nJeez, can't he get anything straight. I told him to wait for three\ndays.\n \nGOD\n \nDavid Nye (nyeda@cnsvax.uwec.edu). Midelfort Clinic, Eau Claire WI\nThis is patently absurd; but whoever wishes to become a philosopher\nmust learn not to be frightened by absurdities. -- Bertrand Russell\n",
"From: dekorte@dirac.scri.fsu.edu (Stephen L. DeKorte)\nSubject: Re: Genocide is Caused by Theism : Evidence?\nOrganization: Supercomputer Computations Research Institute\nLines: 12\n\n\nI saw a 3 hour show on PBS the other day about the history of the\nJews. Appearently, the Cursades(a religious war agianst the muslilams\nin 'the holy land') sparked the widespread persecution of muslilams \nand jews in europe. Among the supporters of the persiecution, were none \nother than Martin Luther, and the Vatican.\n\nLater, Hitler would use Luthers writings to justify his own treatment\nof the jews.\n> Genocide is Caused by Theism : Evidence?\n\nSD\n",
'From: mathew <mathew@mantis.co.uk>\nSubject: Re: Cults Vs. Religions?\nOrganization: Mantis Consultants, Cambridge. UK.\nX-Newsreader: rusnews v1.02\nLines: 10\n\nmangoe@cs.umd.edu (Charley Wingate) writes:\n> To the media, "religion" and "cult" have about the same relative\n> connotations as "government" and "terrorist group".\n\nYes, each is a form of the other.\n\nCharley an anarchist? No, just true words being spoken in jest.\n\n\nmathew\n',
'From: CCCAMPER%MIZZOU1.BITNET@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU (Elizabeth Stevens)\nSubject: The easy way out....\nReply-To: Free Catholic Mailing List <CATHOLIC@AMERICAN.EDU>\nOrganization: University of Missouri-Columbia Campus Computing, 314-882-2000\nLines: 59\n\n\n Easy vs. Hard .....Easy on who?\n\nI had a rare very personal talk with my mother last year. She said\nthat when she and my father were raising we four children, they\ndid not try to raise us in this world as strictly as they were raised\nin their Norwegian Lutheran community. They felt that we would be\nalienated from them and it would create problems.\n In other words, my parent did the very tolerant, loving thing. They\nraised us without conflict, without what we saw as unreasonable\ndemands and were always accepting, no matter what the circumstances.\n What happened was that I grew up believing in situation ethics and\nnever absolutes. I believed in a loving God, and my concept of God\nnever involved justice or punishment, nor was there any concept that\nI may someday be held responsible for the things that offended\nHim...sins that the "world" told me were OK.\n My parents are very good, honest and moral people. They raised\nfour extremely honest children. Yet, before coming to a more\ncomplete knowledge of God (which includes the knowledge of justice\nand punishment)I committed what I now believe to be many, many\ngrave sins. I lived with a partner outside of marriage, was married\nand divorced ( only after physical abuse and no apparent hope for\nchange...but I shouldn\'t have married to person in the first place )\nand more....\n My parents felt they were doing the loving,kind thing by allowing\nus to be who we were, by not imposing their standards on us, and by\naccepting unquestioningly everything we did without judgement or\ncounsel.\n Today, it is absolutely appalling for me to look back on what they\n*did* accept without a word. It takes courages to dare to help souls\nbecause you must speak up and say what is unpopular and\ndifficult and what people do not want to hear. You must be able\nto say what is hard, and say it as Christ would, with love and\ncompassion. It involves risk....perhaps someone you love may not\nwant to hear and will stay away from you.\n This life is "but dust". As long as the comfort of this life\nis our highest priority, we will fail God and fail those\nwith whom we come in contact.\n I wonder how many who engage in sex outside of marriage, who\nsupport the "right" to abortion, who engage in homosexuality,\nor who commit any of the range of sins that are plentiful in\nthis time have ever heard from a quiet, thoughtful, loving\nfriend that these things are *wrong*. No one ever told me that\nwhat I was doing was wrong, and I saw multitudes around me\nliving the same way I was and they seemed like good, decent\npeople. (wouldn\'t kick dogs or beat the elderly or babies..)\nIt is more difficult for sinners without a genuine prayer\nlife to hear the Holy Spirit than it is to hear a loving friend.\nThink about this the next time the Holy Spirit tells you that\na friend is in error, but you don\'t want to "cause trouble".\nRighteous prayers is great power, but don\'t forget that we are\nwe are Christ\'s lips and hands on earth. Don\'t be afraid to\nsimply voice Truth when the situation calls for it. Say a\nfervent prayer and ask the Holy Spirit for Love and guidance.\nIn more ways than we may realize, we *are* our brother\'s\nkeeper.\n\nIn Jesus and Mary,\nElizabeth\n',
'From: lightwave-admin@bobsbox.rent.com (LightWave 3D Mail List Administrator)\nSubject: Monthly LightWave mailing list FAQ\nLines: 130\n\n\n---------------------- LightWave3D Mail-List ----------------------\n\n-- WHAT IS LightWave? --\n\nLightWave3D is part of a suite of programs that come bundled with a\ndevice called the "Toaster" (from NewTek, Inc.) that operates on an\nAmiga platform. The LightWave software (LightWave=LightWave3D and\nLightWave Modeler) allows and artist to create three dimensional\nphoto-realistic images for a variety of purposes.\n\n-- WHY ARE WE DOING THIS? --\n\nThis mailing list is for those interested in the LightWave software, how\nit operates and in ideas on how to obtain the best quality images\navailable to them. The list is for those who own the Toaster and\nLightWave as well as those just interested in what can be done with the\npackage. We hope to share information, tips, procedures and to bond as\na group.\n\n-- WHAT ARE THE RULES? --\n\nSince LightWave/Modeler are just a part of the Newtek Video Toaster\nsoftware, I\'m sure we will discuss a few items related to the operation\nof the Toaster. However, we will strive to keep the subject revolving\nspecifically around the 3D software, related tools and products.\n\nYou do NOT have to own a Toaster to join this list!\n\n-- OK! HOW DO I JOIN? --\n\nTo become a member of the LightWave3D mailing list you must send a mail\nmessage to the address:\n\n lightwave-request@bobsbox.rent.com\n\nIn the body of the message enter:\n\nsubscribe lightwave-l your.name@your.site.domain\n\nOr just ask to be signed up and I will sign you up to the list. At this\npoint in time the process is manual but I hope to get an automated\nscript based system in place soon. There shouldn\'t be too much of a\ndelay in joining. Expect a "welcome" message within 5 days after you\nsend your request. Then, expect the mail to start flowing in!\n\n-- HOW DO I POST TO THE LIST? --\n\nContributing to the list is simple. Just mail your articles to the\nfollowing address:\n\n lightwave@bobsbox.rent.com\n\nYour article will be processed by the system and distributed to all\nothers joined to the list. Your articles will also be sent to you so\nyou know that your article has made it to the list. However, those\naddresses that are either no good or no longer active will bounce back\nto you. So, if you post an article and another members address is no\nlonger valid, your original article will be returned to you. This\ndoesn\'t mean it hasn\'t been posted to the list. In fact, just the\nopposite is true. It means that your article WAS posted and that it\ncouldn\'t be sent to one or more of the members of the list due to a bad\naddress.\n\nNOTE: I hope to have a fix for this behavior soon.\n\n-- HOW DO I QUIT THE LIST? --\n\nSimply mail a request to be removed from the list to the same address\nyou used to sign up:\n\n lightwave-request@bobsbox.rent.com\n\nIn the body of the message enter:\n\nunsubscribe LightWave-l your.name@your.site.domain\n\nI will remove your name from the list of members. PLEASE, if you join\nthe list and your account is going to be closed or if you will not be\nable to receive mail for a while, send a request to be removed from the\nlist! If you are just going to lose access for a short while still send\na request for a suspension of your membership and I will suspend\nforwarding of the articles to you.\n\n\n-- WHAT ABOUT OLD ARTICLES? --\n\nI am currently archiving all the articles posted to the list at the\noriginating site (bobsbox). However, I can not continue to do this due\nto lack of disk space. What we need is a volunteer that will maintain a\ncompendium of articles sent to the list. They can compress and store\nthem in archives on their system. They can then periodically post an\nindex of the contents of the compendium and any other information that\nrelates.\n\nIf there are no volunteers then maybe someone can donate a large SCSI\nhard drive to me for archival purposes. <grin>\n\nI have setup a mail-based file server so that anyone interested in the\nlist can obtain information as well as the entire archive of past\narticles, the membership listing and other information pertaining to\nthe LightWave3D mailing list. For information on this service, please\nsend a mail message to:\n\n fileserver@bobsbox.rent.com\n\nThe first command to the server must be "HELP" or "USER name <passwd>".\n\nUse HELP to request a current copy of the helpfile.\nUse USER name [passwd] to connect to the service.\nUse ? to get a short listing of all available commands.\n\n\n\n-- NOW WHAT DO I DO? --\n\nWell, sit back and enjoy the pouring out of information. If you have\nsomething to offer, please feel free to contribute that information to\nthe list. Every little bit helps. Questions are welcomed! It makes\nsome of us feel important when we can answer them. <grin>\n\nIf you have any questions or comments regarding the list, please contact\nme at the address:\n\n lightwave-admin@bobsbox.rent.com\n\nCheers,\n\n\nBob Lindabury\n',
'From: julie@eddie.jpl.nasa.gov (Julie Kangas)\nSubject: Re: Is MSG sensitivity superstition?\nNntp-Posting-Host: eddie.jpl.nasa.gov\nOrganization: Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, CA\nLines: 42\n\nIn article <C60KrL.59t@dartvax.dartmouth.edu> oldman@coos.dartmouth.edu (Prakash Das) writes:\n>In article <1993Apr20.173019.11903@llyene.jpl.nasa.gov> julie@eddie.jpl.nasa.gov (Julie Kangas) writes:\n>>\n>>As for how foods taste: If I\'m not allergic to MSG and I like\n>>the taste of it, why shouldn\'t I use it? Saying I shouldn\'t use\n>>it is like saying I shouldn\'t eat spicy food because my neighbor\n>>has an ulcer.\n>\n>Julie, it doesn\'t necessarily follow that you should use it (MSG or\n>something else for that matter) simply because you are not allergic\n>to it. For example you might not be allergic to (animal) fats, and\n>like their taste, yet it doesn\'t follow that you should be using them\n>(regularly). MSG might have other bad (or good, I am not up on \n>knowledge of MSG) effects on your body in the long run, maybe that\'s\n>reason enough not to use it. \n\nPerhaps I should quit eating mushrooms, soya beans, and brie cheese\nwhich all have MSG in them. It occurs naturally.\n\nI\'m not going to quit eating something that I like just because\nit *might* cause me trouble later or causes problems in *some*\npeople. I would much rather avoid stress by not worrying over\nwhat goes in my mouth and not spending every day reading conflicting\nreports of what is good/bad for you.\n\nI may eat some things in quantities that may not be good for me.\nFine. I\'ve made my decision and I don\'t think it\'s appropriate\nfor anyone to try to \'convert\' me. "It\'s for your own good" are\nthe most obnoxious and harmful words, IMO, in the English (or\nany other) language.\n\n>\n>Altho\' your example of the ulcer is funny, it isn\'t an\n>appropriate comparison at all.\n\nI think it is. I get tired of people saying \'don\'t eat X because\nit\'s BAD!\' Well, X may not be bad for everyone. And even if\nit is, so what? Give people all the information but don\'t ram\nyour decisions down their throats.\n\nJulie\nDISCLAIMER: All opinions here belong to my cat and no one else\n',
'From: donn@carson.u.washington.edu (Donn Cave)\nSubject: Re: Anyone know use "rayshade" out there?\nOrganization: University of Washington\nLines: 13\nNNTP-Posting-Host: carson.u.washington.edu\nKeywords: rayshade, uw.\n\nfineman@stein2.u.washington.edu (Twixt your toes) writes:\n\n| I\'m using "rayshade" on the u.w. computers here, and i\'d like input\n| from other users, and perhaps swap some ideas. I could post\n| uuencoded .gifs here, or .ray code, if anyone\'s interested. I\'m having\n| trouble coming up with colors that are metallic (i.e. brass, steel)\n| from the RGB values.\n\nSorry, I\'m not a rayshade user - but hey, it looks like this group could\nuse some traffic. My guess is that "metallic" isn\'t a color, in the RGB\nsense. Rather, it\'s a matter of how the surface reflects light. I\'m not\nsure what property metallic materials have, that makes them recognizable\nas such, but I\'m pretty sure any color material can look metallic.\n',
'From: picl25@fsphy1.physics.fsu.edu (PICL account_25)\nSubject: re:use of haldol and the elderly\nOrganization: Florida State University ACNS\nReply-To: picl25@fsphy1.physics.fsu.edu\nLines: 37\n\nI\'m a nursing student, and I would like to respond to #66966 on haldol\nand the elderly.\nMessage-ID: <25APR199316225142@fsphy1.physics.fsu.edu>\nOrganization: Florida State University - School of Higher Thought\nNews-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.4-b1 \n\nFirst, I\'m sorry to hear that you have had to see your grandmother go\nthrough this. I know it has to have been tough.\n\nThere are many things that can cause long term confusion in elderly\nadults. The change in environment can cause problems. Anesthetic agents\ncan cause confusion because the body cannot clear the medicines out of\nthe body as easily. In addition, medications and interactions between\nmedications can cause confusion.\n\nAs far as whether or not haldol can have long lasting effects even after\nthe drug has been discontinued, I do not know. I have not _seen_ anything\nto that effect. However, I also had not been looking for that information.\nI can see what I can find...\n\nI can tell you that haldol is an antipsychotic drug, and, according to\nthe Nursing93 Drug handbook, it is "Especially useful for agitation\nassociated with senile dementia" (p. 400). It also should not be \ndiscontinued abruptly. It did not say anything about long lasting\neffects.\n\nBecause so many things can cause confusion, it is hard for me to know\nwhat else was going on at the time; if I had more history, i might be able\nto answer you better. If you want to send me e-mail with more information,\nI would be happy to try to help you piece together what might have\nhappened.\n\nElisa\npicl25@fsphy1.physics.fsu.edu\n\n\n\n',
'From: levin@bbn.com (Joel B Levin)\nSubject: Re: Earwax\nLines: 18\nNNTP-Posting-Host: fred.bbn.com\n\nbobm@Ingres.COM (Bob McQueer) writes:\n|One question I do have - a doctor who flushed out my ears once also advocated\n|a drop of rubbing alcohol in them afterwards to flush out any remaining\n|trapped water - said he told swimmers to do this after swimming, too. It\n|works, but it stings like the devil, so I\'ve always been content to let any\n|water in my ears from swimming or flushing them out figure out how to get\n|out by itself if shaking my head a few times won\'t do the trick. Any\n|comments?\n\nWhen I have trouble it\'s usually because of water trapped by some\nremaining wax. I don\'t see why you can\'t just let it evaporate; it\nshould do this eventually.\n\n\t/J\n=\nNets: levin@bbn.com | "Earn more sessions by sleeving."\npots: (617)873-3463 |\n N1MNF | -- Roxanne Kowalski\n',
"From: lilley@v5.cgu.mcc.ac.uk (Chris Lilley)\nSubject: Re: XV problems\nLines: 46\nReply-To: C.C.Lilley@mcc.ac.uk\nOrganization: Computer Graphics Unit, MCC\n\n\nIn article <1r1iv3$cba@cc.tut.fi>, jk87377@lehtori.cc.tut.fi (Kouhia Juhana) writes:\n\n>Recent discussion about XV's problems were held in some newsgroup.\n>Here is some text users of XV might find interesting.\n\n>(I have also minor ideas for 24bit XV, e-mail me for them.)\n\n[Deleted for space; basically complaints that xv is an 8 bit program and that\nmaking several modifications to the RGB sliders is slow because of screen updates.]\n\nIn reverse order:\n\n1) Try clicking in the auto-apply box to switch it off. Then make your mods. Then\nclick on apply. There is no problem as stated; it has already been solved if you\nlook carefully.\n\n2) Yes XV is an 8 bit program. This is not a bug. You can edit individual pallette\nentries or do global colour changes; crop, scale etc. Clearly the program must\nsave out the *altered* image else all your work would be thrown away. So yes it\nsaves out 8 bit images - of course!\n\nXV can import 24 bit images and quantises them down to 8 bits. This is a handy\nfacility, not a bug.\n\nHow would you suggest doing colour editing on a 24 bit file? How would you group\n'related' colours to edit them together? Only global changes could be done\nunless the software were very different and much more complicated.\n\nIf you want to do colour editing on a 24 bit image, you need much more powerfull\nsoftware - which is readily available commercially.\n\nAnd lastly, JPEG is a compression algorithm. It can be applied to any image of\narbitrary bit depth. Again, this is not a bug. It is a way of saving disk space\n;-)\n\nLater,\n\n--\nChris Lilley\n----------------------------------------------------------------------------\nTechnical Author, ITTI Computer Graphics and Visualisation Training Project\nComputer Graphics Unit, Manchester Computing Centre, Oxford Road, \nManchester, UK. M13 9PL Internet: C.C.Lilley@mcc.ac.uk \nVoice: +44 (0)61 275 6045 Fax: +44 (0)61 275 6040 Janet: C.C.Lilley@uk.ac.mcc\n------------------------------------------------------------------------------\n",
"From: danb@shell.portal.com (Dan E Babcock)\nSubject: Re: Faith and Dogma\nNntp-Posting-Host: jobe\nOrganization: Portal Communications Company -- 408/973-9111 (voice) 408/973-8091 (data)\nLines: 47\n\nIn article <1r1mr8$eov@aurora.engr.LaTech.edu> ray@engr.LaTech.edu (Bill Ray) writes:\n>Todd Kelley (tgk@cs.toronto.edu) wrote:\n>: Faith and dogma are dangerous. \n>\n>Faith and dogma are inevitable. Christians merely understand and admit\n>to the fact. Give me your proof that no God exists, or that He does. \n>Whichever position you take, you are forced to do it on faith. It does\n>no good to say you take no position, for to show no interest in the \n>existence of God is to assume He does not exist.\n\nAbsolutely not true. Without religion - either an established one or\none you invent for yourself - the theist and atheist are equally\n(not) interested in God, because without religious revelation there\nis _no_ information about God available. Strip away the dogma and\nthe theists/atheists are no different, simply holding a different\nopinion on a matter of little practical importance.\n\n>I contend that proper implementation of the Christian faith requires\n>reasoning, but that reasoning cannot be used to throw out things you\n>don't like, or find uncomfortable. Hedonistic sexual behavior is \n>condemned in the Bible and no act of true reason will make it any\n>less condemned. Hatred, murder, gossip; all these are condemned.\n>Is there God-ordained murder in the Bible? You bet, and if God ever\n>orders me to kill you, I will. But I will first use the Gideon-like\n>behavior of verifying that God actually ordered the hit, and will \n>probably discuss it in an Abram-like fashion.\n\nSorry, but that doesn't help. What test will you apply to decide\nwhether it is God or Satan with whom you are speaking?\nHow will you know that you have not simply gone insane, or having\ndelusions? You are like a loaded gun.\n\n>I can hear you now, this is how Jim Jones and David Koresh justify\n>their behavior. Delusional religious cults bear the same relationship \n\nAh, you not as stupid as I assumed. :-)\n\n>When the Southern Baptist Church or the Methodist Church begin to do this\n>then you have reason to blame mainstream religion for the behaviors of these\n>people. Or should I associate every negative behavior I witness in any\n>non-Christian with you?\n\nYes. We're all in this together - each human making up a small part of\nthe definition of humanity.\n\nDan\n\n",
'From: scott@hpsdde.sdd.hp.com (Scott Roleson)\nSubject: Who is Ram Das??\nLines: 50\n\nWho is Ram Das?\n\nAccording to his brochures, he is a.k.a. Richard Alpert, PhD, and is\nsomehow associated with the:\n\n Seva Foundation\n 8 N. San Pedro Road\n San Rafael, CA 94903\n\nand the:\n Hanuman Foundation \n 524 San Anselmo Ave #203\n San Anselmo, CA 94960\n\nHe speaks publically on such topics as "Consciousness & Current\nEvents," and has written some books and recorded some tapes on \nsimilar subjects. \n\nWhy do I care? My wife wants to go to one of his lectures. When\nI asked why, she said Ram Das was "the greatest spiritual leader\nof our time!"\n\nSeveral years ago my wife got involved with a religious cult, and\nwe went through 9 months of hell that almost ended our marriage \nbefore she quit. Let\'s just say I\'m concerned about this Ram Das\nand her interest, especially so with the recent religious cult\nevents from Texas. I need information - solid and real - so I \nknow what I\'m dealing with.\n\nIf you have any information about Ram Das or the organizations \nshown above, I would be very interested in your correspondence.\nPlease reply via e-mail to me at: scott%hpsdde@SDD.HP.COM\n\nThank you!\n\n -- Scott Roleson\n\n[The dictionary of cults that I use classifies this as "new age", with\na basically Hindu orientation. The headquarters is (or was when this\nwas written) at that Lama Foundation, which they identify as a "New\nAge Commune" in San Cristobel, New Mexico. For information you might\nread Alpert\'s books, which they list as "Be Here Now" (an\nautobiography), "The Only Dance There is", and "Grist for the Mill".\nIt is dealt with briefly in a citation given as "Larson, New Book, pp\n339-41". I assume this is Bob Larson, "Larson\'s New Book of Cults".\nI\'d warn you however that the whole approach to the "new age" is\ncontroversial. Sources such as the reference book I used, as well as\nBob Larson, believe in a Satanic new age conspiracy, which some regard\nas hysterical. However at the very least, it seems clear that this is\nnot a Christian group. --clh]\n',
'From: David O Hunt <bluelobster+@CMU.EDU>\nSubject: Re: Death Penalty / Gulf War (long)\nOrganization: Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA\nLines: 54\n\t<1993Apr20.114137.883@batman.bmd.trw.com>\nNNTP-Posting-Host: po3.andrew.cmu.edu\nIn-Reply-To: <1993Apr20.114137.883@batman.bmd.trw.com>\n\nFrom: jbrown@batman.bmd.trw.com\n>Actually, it was the fact that both situations existed that prompted US\n>and allied action. If some back-water country took over some other\n>back-water country, we probably wouldn\'t intervene. Not that we don\'t\n>care, but we can\'t be the world\'s policman. Or if a coup had occured\n>in Kuwait (instead of an invasion), then we still wouldn\'t have acted\n>because there would not have been the imminent danger perceived to\n>Saudi Arabia. But the combination of the two, an unprovoked invasion\n>by a genocidal tyrant AND the potential danger to the West\'s oil \n>interests, caused us to take action.\n\nThere are many indications that would have taken place had Saddam\nbeen wanting or planning on going into Saudi Arabia. There were\nnone. This has been openly stated by ex-Pentagon analysts. Pull.\n\nFrom: jbrown@batman.bmd.trw.com\n>I\'m not setting up a strawman at all. If you want to argue against the\n>war, then the only logical alternative was to allow Hussein to keep\n>Kuwait. Diplomatic alternatives, including sanctions, were ineffective.\n\nActually, reports from other mid-east countries showed that Hussein\nwas ready to make concessions due to the sanctions. We just didn\'t want\nhim to - we wanted to crush him, as well as battle-test all these high\ntech toys we\'ve built over the years.\n\nFrom: jbrown@batman.bmd.trw.com\n>Probably because we\'re not the saviors of the world. We can\'t police each\n>and every country that decides to self-destruct or invade another. Nor\n>are we in a strategic position to get relief to Tibet, East Timor, or\n>some other places.\n\nWe\'re also hypocrites of the first magnitude. Obviously, we don\'t give\na shit about freedom and democracy. All we care about is our oil. Oh,\nand the excuse, now that the Soviets are gone from the board, to keep\na sizable military presence in the gulf region. Care to make bets about\nwhen ALL our troops will come home?\n\nBasically, Saddam was OK with us. He was a killer, who tortured his\nown people, used gas on them, and other horrors - he was a brutal\ndictator, but he was OUR brutal dictator. Once he said "fuck you" to\nthe US, he became the next Hitler. The same for Noriega. He was a\nbastard, but he was OUR bastard...until he changed his mind and went\nhis own way. Then we had to get rid of him.\n\n\n\nDavid Hunt - Graduate Slave | My mind is my own. | Towards both a\nMechanical Engineering | So are my ideas & opinions. | Palestinian and\nCarnegie Mellon University | <<<Use Golden Rule v2.0>>> | Jewish homeland!\n====T=H=E=R=E===I=S===N=O===G=O=D=========T=H=E=R=E===I=S===N=O===G=O=D=====\nEmail: bluelobster+@cmu.edu Working towards my "Piled Higher and Deeper"\n\nIt will be a great day when scientists and engineers have all the R&D money\nthey need and religions have to beg for money to pay the priest.\n',
"Subject: Vasectomy: Health Effects on Women?\nFrom: eskagerb@nermal.santarosa.edu (Eric Skagerberg)\nOrganization: Santa Rosa Junior College, Santa Rosa, CA\nKeywords: vasectomy woman women contraception sterilization men health\nSummary: What might a vasectomy do to a female partner's long-term health?\nNntp-Posting-Host: nermal.santarosa.edu\nX-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]\nLines: 16\n\nDoes anyone know of any studies done on the long-term health effects of a\nman's vasectomy on his female partner?\n\nI've seen plenty of study results about vasectomy's effects on men's health,\nbut what about women? \n\nFor example, might the wife of a vasectomized man become more at risk for,\nsay, cervical cancer? Adverse effects from sperm antibodies? Changes in the\nvagina's pH? Yeast or bacterial infections?\n\nOutside of study results, how about informed speculation?\n\nThanks in advance for your help!\n--\nEric Skagerberg <eskagerb@nermal.santarosa.edu>\nSanta Rosa, California Telephone (707) 573-1460\n",
"From: mmm@cup.portal.com (Mark Robert Thorson)\nSubject: Re: thermogenics\nOrganization: The Portal System (TM)\nLines: 18\n\nFirst off, if I'm not mistaken, only hibernating animals have brown fat,\nnot humans.\n\nSecondly, your description sounds just like 2,4-dinitrophenol. This is an\nuncoupler of respiratory chain oxidative phosphorylation. Put in layman's\nterms, it short-circuits the mitochondria, causing food energy to be\nturned into heat.\n\n2,4-DNP was popular in the 1930's for weight reduction. In controlled\namounts, it raises body temperature as the body compensates for the\nreduced amount of useful energy available. It is very dangerous.\nIt would be wiser to adjust to your present body form, rather than\nplay around with 2,4-DNP.\n\nBut if you insist, I suggest you look up the literature in your own\nuniversity library. You can obtain 2,4-DNP by taking a first year\norganic chemistry lab course and swiping it from the supplies (it's\na commonly-used reagent).\n",
'From: blix@milton.cs.uiuc.edu (Gunnar Blix)\nSubject: Need info on Circumcision, medical cons and pros\nOrganization: University of Illinois, Dept. of Comp. Sci., Urbana, IL\nLines: 20\n\nI need information on the medical (including emotional :-) pros and\ncons of circumcision (at birth). I am especially interested in\nreferences to studies that indicate disadvantages or refute studies\nthat indicate advantages. A friend who is a medical student is\nwriting a survey paper, and apparently the studies she has run into\nare all for circumcision, the main argument being a lower risk of\npenile cancer.\n\nPlease email responses as I am not a frequent reader of either group.\nI will summarize to the net.\n\n******************************************************************\n* Gunnar Blix * Good advice is one of those insults that *\n* blix@cs.uiuc.edu * ought to be forgiven. -Unknown *\n******************************************************************\n--\n******************************************************************\n* Gunnar Blix * Good advice is one of those insults that *\n* blix@cs.uiuc.edu * ought to be forgiven. -Unknown *\n******************************************************************\n',
'From: lioness@maple.circa.ufl.edu\nSubject: Kubota Kenai/Denali specs\nOrganization: Center for Instructional and Research Computing Activities\nLines: 118\nReply-To: LIONESS@ufcc.ufl.edu\nNNTP-Posting-Host: maple.circa.ufl.edu\n\n\nOkay, I got enough replies about the Kubota Kenai/Denali systems that I\nwill post a summary of their capabilities. I haven\'t actually used one\nor seen one, so take the specs with a grain of salt. I\'d like to see\nan independent review of one against, say, an SGI Indigo Extreme or\nsomething.\n\nBasically, the Kenai workstations are DEC Alpha AXP based workstations that\nrun OSF/1 ( DEC\'s ) and will likely run Windows NT in the future. They are\nbinary compatible with Digital\'s OSF/1 Alpha AXP implementation. Denali\nis their graphics subsystem, which is upgradable in the field by\nsimply adding "transformation engines".\n\nThe two main Kenai machines are the 3400 Imaging and 3D Graphics Workstation\nand the 3500 Imaging and 3D Graphics Workstation.\n\n\n\t\t\t3400\t\t\t3500\n\nCPU\t\t\tDEC Alpha AXP 133MHz\tDEC Alpha AXP 150MHz\nOn-chip cache\t\t8k/8k\t\t\t8k/8k\nOnboard cache\t\t512K\t\t\t512K\nWord Size\t\t64-bit\t\t\t64-bit\nMemory ( initial )\t32-128MB\t\t32-256MB\nMemory ( future )\t512MB\t\t\t1GB\nSPECMARK89\t\t111\t\t\t126\nSPECINT92\t\t75\t\t\t84\nSPECFP92\t\t112\t\t\t128\n\nGRAPHICS\n\nTransform Modules\t1-6\t\t\t1-6\nFrame Buffer Modules\t5,10,20\t\t\t5,10,20\nFrame Buffer\t\t1280x1024x24bit\t\t1280x1024x24bit\n\t\t\tdouble buffered\t\tdouble buffered\nZ-buffer\t\t24-bit\t\t\t24-bit\nAlpha/stencil\t\t8-bit\t\t\t8-bit\nStereo support\t\tyes\t\t\tyes\nOther:\t\t\t\tboth machines will double buffer or do\n\t\t\t\tstereo output per window. Both have an\n\t\t\t\tauxiliary video output that is RS-170A,\n\t\t\t\tNTSC, and PAL\n\nSTORAGE\n\nInternal-fixed\t\t2 3.5"\t\t\t4 3.5"\nInternal-removable\t1 5.25"\t\t\t2 5.25"\nMax capacity\t\t9.5GB\t\t\t11.6 GB\n\nIO\n\nBoth have TurboChannel 100MB/sec, SCSI-2, Ethernet, and FDDI\n\nAPPLICATION PROGRAMMING INTERFACES\n\nBoth have libraries for Xlib, Motif, MIT PEXlib, DEC-PEXlib DEC-PHIGS, and GL\n\nOkay, now the real stuff. The Kenai stations work with a graphics architecture\nknown as Denali. The Denali comes in three models, the E, P, and V. They\nuse a DECchip 21064 superscalar RISC processor at 150MHz. Their\ncapabilities are as follows:\n\n\t\t\tE\t\tP\t\tV\n\n2D Vectors\t\t800-200K\t2000-3800K\t4000-4800K\n3D Vectors #1\t\t350-1100K\t1100-1800K\t1800-2100K\n3D Vectors #2\t\t300-1000K\t1000-1600K\t1600-1900K\n3D Vectors #3\t\t300-500K\t800-1000K\t1300-1400K\n3D Triangles, #4\t200-500K\t600-1000K\t1000-1200K\n3D Triangles, #5\t100-200K\t300-400K\t500-600K\n\n#1: 10 pixel, flat shaded, connected\n#2: 10 pixel, Gouraud shaded, connected\n#3: 10 pixel, 2-pixel wide, anti-aliased, connected\n#4: 50-pixel, Gouraud shaded, Z-buffered, strip\n#5: 50-pixel, texture mapped, persp., point sampled\n\nIMAGE PROCESSING\n\nCine loop - 8-bit\t15-36Mp/s\t37-58 Mp/s\t60-68 Mp/s\nCine loop - 16-bit\t14 Mp/s\t\t25 Mp/s\t\t38 Mp/s\nCine loop - 24-bit\t12-21 Mp/s\t21 Mp/s\t\t21 Mp/s\nContrast stretching #1\t14 Mp/s\t\t25 Mp/s\t\t20 Mp/s\nBilinear zoom\t\t6 Mp/s\t\t11 Mp/s\t\t20 Mp/s\nTrilinear interp#2\t--\t\t6 Mvoxels/s\t11 Mvoxels/s\n\n#1: Lookup table -- 12-,16-bit to 8\n#2: Trilinear interpolation, 8-bit voxels\n\nCONFIGURATIONS\nFrame Buffer Modules\t5\t\t10\t\t20\nTransform Engine Mod.\t1-3\t\t3-5\t\t5-6\n\n\nAs you can see, these are pretty powerful workstations, and the best part\nis the pricing. I would recommend that you call Kubota for more information.\nTheir number is 408-727-8100. I\'m sure they\'ll send you an information you\nmay want. Oh, some prices:\n\nLow-end\n\nKenai 3400, E Series w/ 1 TEM and 5 FBM --- 27,795 dollars U.S.\nKenai 3500, E Series w/ 1 TEM and 5 FBM --- 45,345 dollars U.S.\n\nHigh-end\n\nKenai 3400, V Series w/ 6 TEM and 20 FBM -- 61,795 dollars U.S.\nKenai 3500, V Series w/ 6 TEM and 20 FBM -- 79,345 dollars U.S.\n\nIf someone could post a relative comparision with an Indigo Extreme or\nsomething I would appreciate it.\n\nHope this helps someone out there,\n\nBrian\n\nPS I am not affiliated with Kubota in any way. Hell, I thought they made\ntractors or something. :-)\n',
'From: I3150101@dbstu1.rz.tu-bs.de (Benedikt Rosenau)\nSubject: Re: Amusing atheists and agnostics\nOrganization: Technical University Braunschweig, Germany\nLines: 10\n\nIn article <1r10jcINNt1g@lynx.unm.edu>\ncfaehl@vesta.unm.edu (Chris Faehl) writes:\n \n>> Correction: _hard_ atheism is a faith.\n>\n>Yes.\n>\n \nCan be a faith. Like weak atheism. We had that before.\n Benedikt\n',
'Subject: DXF to PCX,GIF,TIF or TGA?\nFrom: murashiea@mail.beckman.com (Ed Murashie)\nOrganization: DSG Development Eng Beckman Instruments Inc.\nNntp-Posting-Host: 134.217.245.87\nLines: 11\n\nDoes anyone know of a program for the PC that\nwill take AutoCad DXF format files and convert\nthem to a raster format, like PCX, GIF, etc?\nThanks in advance....\n\t\t\t\tED\n\n------------------\nEd Murashie US Mail : Beckman Instruments Inc.\nphone: (714) 993-8895 Diagnostic System Group \nfax: (714) 961-3759 200 S. Kraemer Blvd W-361\nInternet: murashiea@mail.beckman.com Brea, Ca 92621 \n',
"From: sandvik@newton.apple.com (Kent Sandvik)\nSubject: Re: islamic authority over women\nOrganization: Cookamunga Tourist Bureau\nLines: 16\n\nIn article <C5rB1G.43u@darkside.osrhe.uoknor.edu>, bil@okcforum.osrhe.edu\n(Bill Conner) wrote:\n> To credit religion with the awesome power to dominate history is to\n> misunderstand human nature, the function of religion and of course,\n> history. I believe that those who distort history in this way know\n> exaclty what they're doing, and do it only for affect.\n\nHowever, to underestimate the power of religion creating historical\nevents is also a big misunderstanding. For instance, would the\n30-year-old war have ever started if there were no fractions\nbetween the Protestants and the Vatican?\n\nCheers,\nKent\n---\nsandvik@newton.apple.com. ALink: KSAND -- Private activities on the net.\n",
'From: marco@sdf.lonestar.org (Steve Giammarco)\nSubject: Help. Info: CLARITIN (Allergies)\nOrganization: sdf public access Unix - Dallas, TX - 214/436-3281\nLines: 14\n\nMy doc handed me 10mg samples of CLARITIN (brand of Ioratadine Tablet\nfrom Schering Corp.) I tried to find it in the PDR to no avail. I\ndo remember she mentioned this drug was relatively new to the US but\navailable overseas for quite some time.\n\nLooking mostly for side-effect, contraindications, and mode of action \nsuch that it differs from Seldane and Hismanal.\n\nEmail or newsgroup is fine. Thanx in advance.\n\n-- \nSteve Giammarco/5330 Peterson Lane/Dallas TX 75240\nmarco@sdf.lonestar.org\nloveyameanit.\n',
'From: livesey@solntze.wpd.sgi.com (Jon Livesey)\nSubject: Re: islamic genocide\nOrganization: sgi\nLines: 58\nDistribution: world\nNNTP-Posting-Host: solntze.wpd.sgi.com\n\nIn article <1qu485$58o@horus.ap.mchp.sni.de>, frank@D012S658.uucp (Frank O\'Dwyer) writes:\n|> In article <1qkovl$k@fido.asd.sgi.com> livesey@solntze.wpd.sgi.com (Jon Livesey) writes:\n|> #\n|> #False dichotomy. You claimed the killing were *not* religiously\n|> #motivated, and I\'m saying that\'s wrong. I\'m not saying that\n|> #each and every killing is religiously motivate, as I spelled out\n|> #in detail.\n|> \n|> Which killings do you say are religously motivated?\n\nFor example, I would claim that the recent assassination of four\ncatholic construction workers who had no connection with the IRA\nwas probably religously motivated.\n\n|> At the time\n|> of writing, I think that someone who claims the current violence is\n|> motivated by religion is reaching.\n\nWhat would you call is when someone writes "The killings in N.I \nare not religously motivated?"\n\n|> Now, it\'s possible to argue that \n|> religion *in the past* is a major contributing factor to the violence in\n|> the present, but I don\'t know of any evidence that this is so - and I\'m\n|> not enough of a historian to debate it. \n\nGiven that the avowed aim of the IRA is to take Northern Ireland\ninto a country that has a particular church written into its \nconstitution, and which has restriction on civil rights dictated\nby that Church, I fail to see why the word "past" is appropriate.\n\n\n|> #|> #But to claim that "The killings in N.I are not religously \n|> #|> #motivated." is grotesque. All that means is that the Church\n|> #|> #and believers are doing what they always do with history\n|> #|> #they can\'t face: they rewrite it.\n|> #|> \n|> #|> You\'re attacking a different claim. My claim is that when an IRA\n|> #|> terrorist plants a bomb in Warrington s/he does not have as a motive \n|> #|> the greater glory of God. \n|> #\n|> #Sorry, Frank, but what I put in quotes is your own words from your\n|> #posting <1qi83b$ec4@horus.ap.mchp.sni.de>. Don\'t tell us now that \n|> #it\'s a different claim. If you can no longer stand behind your \n|> #original claim, just say so.\n|> \n|> I mean the same thing when I say "The killings in N.I. are not religously\n|> motivated" as I do when I say when a terrorist plants a bomb s/he\n|> doesn\'t have a religious motive. The example is meant to clarify, not\n|> to be a new claim. The "different claim" to which I refer is the claim\n|> which you were seemingly attacking in the previous post, namely that religion \n|> is not a major historical cause of the present violence. I don\'t assert \n|> that, nor do I assert its opposite.\n\nYou don\'t have to hand us a bunch of double-talk about what\nI was "seemingly" attacking. I *quoted* what I was attacking.\n\njon.\n',
"From: cs89mcd@brunel.ac.uk (Michael C Davis)\nSubject: Leadership Magazine article\nOrganization: Brunel University, Uxbridge, UK\nLines: 11\n\nI'm looking for the following article:\n\n\t``The War Within: an Anatomy of Lust''\n\tLeadership 3 (1985), pp 30-48\n\nI've looked in the libraries of 3 UK Bible Colleges, but none of them subscribe\nto the Magazine (its a US publication, btw). If anyone has access to this\narticle and would be willing to post me a photocopy (I presume that copyright\nrestrictions will allow this?), please e-mail me. Thanks,\n-- \nMichael Davis (cs89mcd@brunel.ac.uk)\n",
'From: jaeger@buphy.bu.edu (Gregg Jaeger)\nSubject: Re: Yet more Rushdie [Re: ISLAMIC LAW]\nOrganization: Boston University Physics Department\nLines: 39\n\nIn article <1993Apr21.171807.16785@bnr.ca> (Rashid) writes:\n\n>In article <115694@bu.edu>, jaeger@buphy.bu.edu (Gregg Jaeger) wrote:\n\n>> I think many reading this group would also benefit by knowing how\n>> deviant the view _as I\'ve articulated it above_ (which may not be\n>> the true view of Khomeini) is from the basic principles of Islam. \n>> So that the non-muslim readers of this group will see how far from \n>> the simple basics of Islam such views are on the face of them. And \n>> if they are _not_ in contradiction with the basics of Islam, how \n>> subtle such issues are and how it seems sects exist in Islam while \n>> they are explicitly proscribed by the Qur\'an.\n\n>Discussing it here is fine by me. Shall we start a new thread called,\n>say, "Infallibility in Islam" and move the discussion there?\n\nI think this should be illuminating to all. Let me make a first\nsuggestion. When Arabic words, especially technical ones, become of use \nlet us define them for those, especially atheists, to whom they may not be\nterribly familiar. Please also note that though I did initially refer\nto Khomeini as a heretic for what I understood to be a claim -- rejected \nby you since -- of personal infallibility, I withdraw this as a basis\nfor such a statement. I conditionally retain this reference in regard\nto Khomeini\'s advocacy of the thesis of the infallibility of the \nso-called "Twelve Imams," which is in clear conflict with the Qur\'an \nin that it places the Twelve Imams in a category of behavior and example\nhigher than that of the Muhammad, in that the Qur\'an shows that the\nProphet was clearly fallible, as well as (it appears, given your\nabstruse theological statment regarding the "natures" of the Twelve\nImams) placing them in a different metaphysical category than the \nremainder of humanity, with the possible exception of Muhammad, \nsomething which verges on the sin of association.\n\n>As salam a-laikum\n\nAlaikum Wassalam,\n\nGregg\n\n',
'From: klaus@ipri.go.jp (Klaus Hofmann;(6663))\nSubject: cats and pregnancy\nNntp-Posting-Host: 150.29.28.9\nOrganization: National Institute of Materials and Chem. Res., MITI, tsukuba\nLines: 13\n\nHello,\nI heard that a certain disease (toxoplasmosys?) is transmitted by cats which\ncan harm the unborn fetus. Does anybody know about it? Is it a problem to \nhave a cat in the same apartment?\n\nThanks\n\n\n\n-- \nKlaus Hofmann\nNational Institute of Materials and Chemical Research\n1-1, Higashi Tsukuba, Ibaraki 305, Japan\n',
'From: HOLFELTZ@LSTC2VM.stortek.com\nSubject: Re: Question: Jesus alone, Oneness\nOrganization: StorageTek SW Engineering\nLines: 40\n\nIn article <May.5.02.53.16.1993.28886@athos.rutgers.edu>\njblanken@ccat.sas.upenn.edu (James R. Blankenship) writes:\n \n>\n>"Jesus Only" and "Oneness" tend to refer to groups that do deny the\n>trinity. .....\n>They explain Matthew by saying that Jesus is the name of the Father, Jesus\n>is the name of the Son, and Jesus is the name of the name of the Holy\n>Spirit, Father, Son, & Holy Spirit referring to different roles, all\n>filled by Jesus. ....\n \nIMHO this are going from bad to worse. 3-in-1, 1-in-3 was bad enough.\n \nI do not like a God who prays to Himself. I refuse to believe Jesus prayed\nto Himself -- let\'s get real, if the scriptures say He prayed to the\nFather, then the Father IS someone different than the Son. I have no\nproblems with multiple Gods. To me, the whole context of the scriptures\nsays: Be perfect, even as your Father Who is in Heaven; that we can be\nco-heirs with Christ; that we will be like Him.\n \nCo-heirs share all things equally--including knowledge, power, dominion etc.\nWhen I am like Him (Christ), I will be the same as HE is--and He is a God.\n \nIf God cannot do this, the His is not all powerful--and He is NOT God.\nIf He will not, He is a Liar--and He is NOT God.\n \nBut if He does, He is the greatest of all the Gods.\n \n\n[I don\'t know of anyone who says that Jesus prayed to himself. The\nwhole point of the Trinity is that there\'s enough of a distinction\nwithin God that relationship is possible. This implies some sort of\ncommunication. I assume that in their "native" form, the Father and\nSon are directly enough connected that prayer in our sense isn\'t\ninvolved. But Jesus is the incarnation of the Son, i.e. the Logos\nmade flesh. When he\'s in a human form, his human actions are limited\nto human capabilities. So communication with the Father takes the\nform of prayer. I don\'t see that there\'s anything problematical about\nthat. It seems to be implicit in the whole idea of incarnation.\n--clh]\n',
"From: jlin@convex1.tcs.tulane.edu.tulane.edu (Jonah Lin)\nSubject: Re: SATANIC TOUNGES\nOrganization: Tulane University, New Orleans, LA\nLines: 14\n\nIn article <May.9.05.40.36.1993.27495@athos.rutgers.edu> koberg@spot.Colorado.EDU (Allen Koberg) writes:\n>\n>Hmmm...in the old testament story about the tower of Babel, we see how\n>God PUNISHED by giving us different language. Can we assume then that\n>if angels have their own language at all, that they have the SAME one\n>amongst other angels? After all, THEY were not punished in any manner.\n>\n\nMaybe before Babel,everyone including angels spoke the same language,so at\nBabel, God punished us by giving us languages different from the original one.\nSo if that's the case,then angels now would be speaking in the tongue mankind\nspoke before Babel.\n\nJonah\n",
'From: tysoem@facman.ohsu.edu (Marie E Tysoe)\nSubject: sciatica\nDistribution: usa\nOrganization: Oregon Health Sciences University\nLines: 1\nNntp-Posting-Host: facman\n\nIdeas for the relief of sciatica. Please respond to my E-mail\n',
'From: kxgst1@pitt.edu (Kenneth Gilbert)\nSubject: Re: Pregnency without sex?\nLines: 15\nX-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]\n\nLen Howard (tas@pegasus.com) wrote:\n\n: Well, now, Doc, I sure would not want to bet my life on those little\n: critters not being able to get thru one layer of sweat-soaked cotton\n: on their way to do their programmed task. Infrequent, yes, unlikely,\n: yes, but impossible? I learned a long time ago never to say never in\n: medicine <g> Len Howard MD, FACOG\n\nYes, I suppose a single layer of wet cotton would be feasible. After all,\nwe certainly do not make condoms out of cotton!] \n--\n=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-|-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=\n= Kenneth Gilbert __|__ University of Pittsburgh =\n= General Internal Medicine | "...dammit, not a programmer!" =\n=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-|-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=\n',
'From: christen@astro.ocis.temple.edu (Carl Christensen)\nSubject: Re: Asimov stamp\nOrganization: Temple University\nLines: 19\nNntp-Posting-Host: astro.ocis.temple.edu\nX-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]\n\nbattin@cyclops.iucf.indiana.edu (Laurence Gene Battin) writes:\n>Apart from the suggestion that appeared in the letters column of\n>Skeptical Inquirer recently, has there been any further mention\n>about a possible Asimov commemorative stamp? If this idea hasn\'t\n>been followed up, does anyone know what needs to be done to get\n>this to happen? I think that its a great idea. Should we start a\n>petition or something?\n\nI believe that there\'s a 10 year period from time of death until\na person can be on a commemorative stamp. It was broken once\nfor Lyndon Johnson (I think) but other than that it has held for\nawhile. Of course, we can still start now -- the Elvis stamp\nwas petitioned for ages and things really moved once it got\npast the 10 year anniversary of his death.\n\n--\nCarl Christensen /~~\\_/~\\ ,,, Dept. of Computer Science\nchristen@astro.ocis.temple.edu | #=#==========# | Temple University \n"Curiouser and curiouser!" - LC \\__/~\\_/ ``` Philadelphia, PA USA \n',
'From: ortmann@plains.NoDak.edu (Daniel Ortmann)\nSubject: Re: VGA Graphics Library\nKeywords: C, library, graphics\nArticle-I.D.: ns1.C72u68.H6y\nOrganization: North Dakota Higher Education Computing Network\nLines: 11\nNntp-Posting-Host: plains.nodak.edu\n\nIn article <2054@mwca.UUCP> bill@mwca.UUCP (Bill Sheppard) writes:\n)Many high-end graphics cards come with C source code for doing basic graphics\n)sorts of things (change colors, draw points/lines/polygons/fills, etc.). Does\n)such a library exist for generic VGA graphics cards/chips, hopefully in the\n)public domain? This would be for the purpose of compiling under a non-DOS\n)operating system running on a standard PC.\n\nCheck the server code for X11R5. (or "XFree86")\n-- \nDaniel "un?X" Ortmann (talmidim) NDSU Electrical Engineering\nortmann@plains.nodak.edu shalom Fargo, North Dakota\n',
"From: deniaud@cartoon.inria.fr (Gilles Deniaud)\nSubject: HELP: Need 24 bits viewer\nKeywords: 24 bit\nLines: 7\n\nHi,\n\nI'm looking for a program which is able to display 24 bits\nimages. We are using a Sun Sparc equipped with Parallax\ngraphics board running X11.\n\nThanks in advance.\n",
'From: d91tm@efd.lth.se (Tomas Moeller)\nSubject: WANTED : Scott Leatham @ Microsoft\nOrganization: Lund Institute of Technology, Sweden\nLines: 13\n\nHello there!\nA few days ago I got a mail concerning bitmap-stretching\nfrom SCOTT LEATHAM @ Microsoft Redmond WA, USA.\nI really would like to answer back to him, but I have \nlost his email-address.\nSo if Scott or anybody that knows his email-address\nreads this, please mail me his address so I can\nanswer his mail.\n\nPlease mail to : d91tm@efd.lth.se\n\n\tThanks\n\t /Tomas\n',
'From: dbushong@wang.com (Dave Bushong)\nSubject: Re: TIFF: philosophical significance of 42 (SILLY)\nOrganization: Wang Labs, Lowell MA, USA\nLines: 10\n\nrak@crosfield.co.uk (Richard Kirk) writes:\n\n>It\'s the number of legs on a centipede.\n>So, now you know.\n\nIs that the number of "left" legs, or both left and right?\n-- \nDave Bushong, Wang Laboratories, Inc. Amateur Radio Callsign KZ1O\nProject Leader, Recognition products kz1o@n0ary.#noca.ca.na\nInternet: dbushong@wang.com\n',
'From: mmh@dcs.qmw.ac.uk (Matthew Huntbach)\nSubject: Re: When are two people married in God\'s e\nOrganization: Computer Science Dept, QMW, University of London, UK.\nLines: 43\n\nIn article <May.7.01.08.49.1993.14485@athos.rutgers.edu> gt7122b@prism.gatech.edu (Randal Lee Nicholas Mandock) writes:\n>I am not against capital punishment. I feel this way because God is not\n>only a God of love, but a God of justice. As we Christians are the\n>instruments of His will here on earth, we are expected to be true to the\n>mandate given us by the Lord to judge the actions of our fellow man.\n>\n>My favorite Scriptural reference in this regard is Romans 13:1-7.\n>\n> Let every person be subordinate to the higher authorities, for\n> there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have\n> been established by God. Therefore, whoever resists authority\n> opposes what God has appointed, and those who oppose it will\n> bring judgment upon themselves.\n>\n>My views reflect the teaching of the Roman Catholic Church.\n>\nI would say only to the extent that the Roman Catholic Church\nneither approves nor disapproves of capital punishment, as\nconfirmed in the recent catechism, though there are many RCs\nwho were rather surprised and upset that capital punishment was\nnot explicitly condemned.\n\nFor myself, as a Catholic, I see my own opposition to capital\npunishment as much the same as my opposition to abortion - a\nreverence for life. Here in the UK, the anti-abortion case is\noften let down by the explicit link which those on the\npolitical left make with anti-abortionists and\npro-executionists. There is a tendency to condemn people who\nhold both views as hypocrites. I feel that if there were many\nmore anti-abortionists who were also vocal in their opposition\nto capital punishment on a pro-life line, it would end this\nkneejerk association of anti-abortion as a right-wing thing,\nand get many to think seriously about the issue (there are\nplenty who are pro-abortion equally for a kneejerk left-wing\nreason).\n\nI do not think your biblical quote can automatically be taken\nas support for capital punishment. I take it that as a Roman\nCatholic you are opposed to abortion, and would still onsider\nit wrong, and something to be objected to even if legalised by\n"authority".\n\nMatthew Huntbach\n',
"From: bil@okcforum.osrhe.edu (Bill Conner)\nSubject: Re: free moral agency\nNntp-Posting-Host: okcforum.osrhe.edu\nOrganization: Okcforum Unix Users Group\nX-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL9]\nLines: 18\n\nJames Felder (spbach@lerc.nasa.gov) wrote:\n\n: Are you saying that their was a physical Adam and Eve, and that all humans are direct decendents of only these two human beings.? Then who were Cain and Able's wives? Couldn't be their sisters, because A&E didn't have daughters. Were they non-humans?\n\nOkay all humans are direct descendents of of a bunch of hopeful\nmonsters. The human race didn't evolve from one set parents, but from\nthousands. Do you really base your atheist on -this-?\n\n: Considering that something like 4 out of 5 humans on this planet don't know instinctively that the Christian god exist, the claim of instinctive knowledge doesn't look like it hold much water. Or are you saying that the 4 billion non-Christians in the world must fight this instinctive urge to acknowledge God and JC.\n\nDid I say that people were Christians by nature or did I say that\nChristians hold that everyone knows of the God the Christians worship.\nI would have thought the distinction obvious, sorry. Read my post\nagain and see what I -really- said; from what you've written, I think\nyou are just being agumentative. Also your word-wrap is screwed up or\nyou need to shift to 80 columns text ...\n\nBill\n",
'From: sdittman@liberty.uc.wlu.edu (Scott Dittman)\nSubject: Definition of Christianity?\nOrganization: Washington & Lee University\nLines: 12\n\nAlthough simplistic I have always liked the fact that "a Christian is one\nwho not only believes in God, but believes God." After all the name was\nfirst given externally to identify those who "preached Christ and Him\ncrucified" to pay the price of their rebeliion and shortcomings before\nGod. God said this was His son -- I belive Him.\n-- \nScott Dittman email: sdittman@wlu.edu\nUniversity Registrar talk: (703)463-8455 fax: (703)463-8024\nWashington and Lee University snail mail: Lexington Virginia 24450\n\n[It\'s certainly a good things for Christians to follow. But as\na definition it may be a bit hard to apply. --clh]\n',
'From: disraeli@leland.Stanford.EDU (Jamie Lara Bronstein)\nSubject: Re: Bacteria invasion and swimming pools\nOrganization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA\nLines: 12\n\nI have been struck down this past week by a stomach bug and fever\nwhich went away quickly when treated with an antibiotic. The\npharmacist told me the antibiotic is effective against a wide\nvariety of "gram-negative bacteria." I was wondering where I\nmight have acquired such a bacteria. Could they hang out in swimming-\npool water, or would the chlorine kill them? \n\nFeeling better, I am\n\nJ. Bronstein\ndisraeli@leland.stanford.edu\n\n',
"From: gtclark@festival.ed.ac.uk (G T Clark)\nSubject: Re: centi- and milli- pedes\nLines: 19\n\nmsnyder@nmt.edu (Rebecca Snyder) writes:\n\n>Does anyone know how posionous centipedes and millipedes are? If someone\n>was bitten, how soon would medical treatment be needed, and what would\n>be liable to happen to the person?\n\n>(Just for clarification - I have NOT been bitten by one of these, but my\n>house seems to be infested, and I want to know 'just in case'.)\n\n>Rebecca\n\n\n\tMillipedes, I understand, are vegetarian, and therefore almost\ncertainly will not bite and are not poisonous. Centipedes are\ncarnivorous, and although I don't have any absolute knowledge on this, I\nwould tend to think that you're in no danger from anything but a\nconcerted assault by several million of them.\n\n\t\t\tG.\n",
'From: Renee <rme1@cornell.edu>\nSubject: Chelation therapy\nOrganization: Cornell University\nLines: 13\nDistribution: world\nNNTP-Posting-Host: 128.253.111.135\nX-UserAgent: Nuntius v1.1.1d7\nX-XXDate: Mon, 26 Apr 93 13:59:09 GMT\n\nDoes anyone here know anything about chelation therapy using EDTA? My\nuncle has emphesema, and a doctor wants to try it on him. We are\nwondering if:\n\n1. Is there any evidence EDTA chelation therapy is beneficial for his\ncondition, or any condition?\n\n2. What possible side effects are there. How can they be mimimized?\n\nPlease respond via e-mail to rme1@cornell.edu\n\nThanks,\nRenee\n',
"From: gck@aero.org (Gregory C. Kozlowski)\nSubject: Re: YOU WILL ALL GO TO HELL!!!\nOrganization: The Aerospace Corporation, El Segundo, CA\nLines: 9\nNNTP-Posting-Host: aerospace.aero.org\nSummary: We are there!\n\n\n\nThis is hell. Hasn't anyone noticed?\n\n\n<< Consensual reality is a special case >>\n\n\n\n",
"From: hollasch@kpc.com (Steve Hollasch)\nSubject: Re: What is the difference between Raytracing and rendering?\nSummary: Raytracing is a form of rendering\nOrganization: Kubota Pacific Computer, Inc.\nLines: 31\n\nzlg1409@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Zhenhai Li ) writes:\n| Hello, I've raytraced and rendered and the only difference I've found \n| is that raytracing takes a hell of a lot longer. Am I missing something?\n\n Yes. There are many methods of rendering, raytracing is one of them.\nYou didn't say what you mean by rendering, so I won't guess. Methods of\nrendering include:\n\n o Pencil and graph paper, doing the math by hand\n\n o Wireframe rendering of the 2D projection\n\n o Hidden line rendering\n\n o Scanline rendering using:\n - Painter's algorithm.\n - BSP trees.\n - Z buffer\n - Other\n\n o Raytracing\n\n o Radiosity\n\n o Holographic projection to film\n\n o Combination of any of the above\n\n______________________________________________________________________________\nSteve Hollasch Kubota Pacific Computer, Inc.\nhollasch@kpc.com Santa Clara, California\n",
'From: joe@erix.ericsson.se (Joe Armstrong)\nSubject: Angels on needles?\nOrganization: Ellemtel Telecom Systems Labs, Stockholm, Sweden\nLines: 10\n\n\n I recall reading somewhere that a number of bishops spent a great\ndeal of time debating the topic of "how many angels could fit on the\ntip of a needle".\n\n Does anybody have a reference to this?\n\n Thanks\n\n Joe Armstrong\n',
"From: jdryburn@smt_6.b21.ingr.com (Joe Ryburn)\nSubject: Software Development Libs for Old TARGA-16 Boards\nOrganization: Intergraph\nLines: 17\n\nI am revamping some computer-aided visual inspection systems which\nuse the old AT&T Targa-16 Board Set (2 cards) to display images from\na color CCD camera to a color monitor, providing the option to overlay\ntext or a crosshair. No image capture or manipulation is performed, \njust display. I would like to know if there is still a source for \ndevelopment libraries which would allow me to embed commands in my\nown software to enable the camera, draw crosshairs, print text, etc.\nI'll be glad to pay if they are commercially available. E-Mail if\npossible.\n\n-- \n\n\n----------------------------------------------------------------\nJoe Ryburn | CIM Manager | Intergraph Corporation\n | Manufacturing Integration | Huntsville, AL 35894\n----------------------------------------------------------------\n",
'From: garyws@cbnewsg.cb.att.com (gary.schuetter)\nSubject: A Good place for Back Surgery?\nKeywords: HOSPITALS BACK SURGERY\nOrganization: AT&T\nDistribution: usa\nLines: 19\n\n\n\t\n Hello,\n\n Just one quick question:\n My father has had a back problem for a long time and doctors\n have diagnosed an operation is needed. Since he lives down in\n Mexico, he wants to know if there is a hospital anywhere in\n the United States particulary famous for this kind of surgery,\n kind of like Houston has a reputation for excellent doctors\n in eye surgery. Any additional info or pointers will be\n appreciated a whole lot!...\n\n\n Thanks in Advance.\n\n Gary Sheutter.\n AT&T Bell Labs.\n\n',
'From: R5321GAB@vm.univie.ac.at\nSubject: Tel.# for 3D scanners needed!\nOrganization: University of Vienna\nLines: 13\nNNTP-Posting-Host: helios.edvz.univie.ac.at\n\nHello all,\n I need to make some torso 3D scans and would like the phone numbers of\ncompanies in the midwest that make scans, and the numbers of companies that\nmake the sanners (ie Cyberware). Does anyone have an idea of how much a\nsingle scan costs and the best format to save it in? I am not sure on what\nsoftware platform I will be using it in, probably either Softimage or\nWavefront. So I think a spline based format would be best. Please forward the\nnumbers to me personally as I am having problems accessing USENET lately.\nThanks in advance!\n \nPatrick Maun\nr5321gab@awiuni11.edvz.univie.ac.at\nSt. Paul MN\n',
'From: jbrown@batman.bmd.trw.com\nSubject: Re: Gulf War / Selling Arms\nLines: 40\n\nIn article <930420.113512.1V3.rusnews.w165w@mantis.co.uk>, mathew <mathew@mantis.co.uk> writes:\n> mccullou@snake2.cs.wisc.edu (Mark McCullough) writes:\n\nFrom a parallel thread. Much about definitions of bombs, etc. deleted.\n[...]\n\n> \n>> Aaaahhh. Tell me, how many innocents were killed in concentration camps?\n>> mm-hmm. Now, how many more were scheduled to enter concentration camps\n>> had they not been shut down because they were captured by the allies?\n>> mm-hmm. Now, civilians died in that war. So no matter what you do,\n>> civilians die. What is the proper course?\n> \n> Don\'t sell the bastard arms and information in the first place. Ruthlessly\n> hunt down those who do. Especially if they\'re in positions of power.\n> \n\nMathew, I agree. This, it seems, is the crux of your whole position,\nisn\'t it? That the US shouldn\'t have supported Hussein and sold him arms\nto fight Iran? I agree. And I agree in ruthlessly hunting down those\nwho did or do. But we *did* sell arms to Hussein, and it\'s a done deal.\nNow he invades Kuwait. So do we just sit back and say, "Well, we sold\nhim all those arms, I suppose he just wants to use them now. Too bad\nfor Kuwait." No, unfortunately, sitting back and "letting things be"\nis not the way to correct a former mistake. Destroying Hussein\'s\nmilitary potential as we did was the right move. But I agree with\nyour statement, Reagan and Bush made a grave error in judgment to\nsell arms to Hussein. So it\'s really not the Gulf War you abhor\nso much, it was the U.S.\'s and the West\'s shortsightedness in selling\narms to Hussein which ultimately made the war inevitable, right?\n\nIf so, then I agree.\n\n[more deleted.]\n> \n> mathew\n\nRegards,\n\nJim B.\n',
"From: jpc@avdms8.msfc.nasa.gov (J. Porter Clark)\nSubject: Annual inguinal hernia repair\nKeywords: inguinal hernia\nNntp-Posting-Host: avdms8.msfc.nasa.gov\nOrganization: NASA/MSFC\nLines: 27\n\nLast year, I was totally surprised when my annual physical disclosed an\ninguinal hernia. I couldn't remember doing anything that would have\ncaused it. That is, I hadn't been lifting more than other people do,\nand in fact probably somewhat less. Eventually the thing became more\npainful and I had the repair operation.\n\nThis year I developed a pain on the other side. This turned out to be\nanother inguinal hernia. So I go back to the hospital Monday for\nanother fun 8-) operation.\n\nI don't know of anything I'm doing to cause this to happen. I'm 38\nyears old and I don't think I'm old enough for things to start falling\napart like this. The surgeon who is doing the operation seems to\nsuspect a congenital weakness, but if so, why did it suddenly appear\nwhen I was 37 and not really as active as I was when I was younger?\n\nDoes anyone know how to prevent a hernia, other than not lifting\nanything? It's rare that I lift more than my 16-month-old or a sack\nfull of groceries, and you may have noticed that your typical grocery\nsack is fairly small these days. Is there some sort of exercise that\nwill reduce the risk?\n\nOf course, my wife thinks it's from sitting for long periods of time at\nthe computer, reading news...\n-- \nJ. Porter Clark jpc@avdms8.msfc.nasa.gov or jpc@gaia.msfc.nasa.gov\nNASA/MSFC Flight Data Systems Branch\n",
'From: carl@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU (Carl J Lydick)\nSubject: Re: Krillean Photography\nOrganization: HST Wide Field/Planetary Camera\nLines: 26\nDistribution: world\nReply-To: carl@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU\nNNTP-Posting-Host: sol1.gps.caltech.edu\n\nIn article <1993Apr26.204319.11231@ultb.isc.rit.edu>, eas3714@ultb.isc.rit.edu (E.A. Story) writes:\n=In article <1rgrsvINNmpr@gap.caltech.edu> carl@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU writes:\n=>Greg:Flame definitely intended here. Bill was making fun of the misspelling. \n=>Go look up the word "krill." Also, the correct spelling is Kirlian. It\n=>involves taking photographs of corona discharges created by attaching the\n=>subject to a high-voltage source, not of some "aura." It works equally well\n=>with inanimate objects.\n=\n=True.. but what about showing the missing part of a leaf? Is this\n="corona discharge"?\n\nYup. The demonstration to which you refer consists of placing a leaf between\nthe plates, and taking a Kirlian photograph of it. You then cut off part of\nthe leaf, put the top plate back on, and take another Kirlian photograph. You\nsee pretty much the same image in both cases. Turns out the effect isn\'t\nnearly so striking if you take the trouble to clean the plates between\nphotographs. Seems that the moisture from the leaf that you left on the place\nconducts electricity. Surprise, surprise!\n--------------------------------------------------------------------------------\nCarl J Lydick | INTERnet: CARL@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU | NSI/HEPnet: SOL1::CARL\n\nDisclaimer: Hey, I understand VAXen and VMS. That\'s what I get paid for. My\nunderstanding of astronomy is purely at the amateur level (or below). So\nunless what I\'m saying is directly related to VAX/VMS, don\'t hold me or my\norganization responsible for it. If it IS related to VAX/VMS, you can try to\nhold me responsible for it, but my organization had nothing to do with it.\n',
'From: decay@cbnewsj.cb.att.com (dean.kaflowitz)\nSubject: Re: about the bible quiz answers\nOrganization: AT&T\nDistribution: na\nLines: 18\n\nIn article <healta.153.735242337@saturn.wwc.edu>, healta@saturn.wwc.edu (Tammy R Healy) writes:\n> \n> \n> #12) The 2 cheribums are on the Ark of the Covenant. When God said make no \n> graven image, he was refering to idols, which were created to be worshipped. \n> The Ark of the Covenant wasn\'t wrodhipped and only the high priest could \n> enter the Holy of Holies where it was kept once a year, on the Day of \n> Atonement.\n\nI am not familiar with, or knowledgeable about the original language,\nbut I believe there is a word for "idol" and that the translator\nwould have used the word "idol" instead of "graven image" had\nthe original said "idol." So I think you\'re wrong here, but\nthen again I could be too. I just suggesting a way to determine\nwhether the interpretation you offer is correct.\n\n\nDean Kaflowitz\n',
'From: noye@midway.uchicago.edu (vera shanti noyes)\nSubject: Re: Why do people become atheists?\nReply-To: noye@midway.uchicago.edu\nOrganization: University of Chicago\nLines: 88\n\nIn article <May.11.02.37.42.1993.28189@athos.rutgers.edu> muirm@argon.gas.organpipe.uug.arizona.edu (maxwell c muir) writes:\n\n[a lot of stuff deleted -- i\'m focusing on just one point]\n>Well, he got me there. I am a strong atheist, because I feel that lack of\n>evidence, especially about something like an omnipotent being, implies\n>lack of existence. However, I haven\'t met the strong atheist yet who said\n>that nothing could ever persuade him. Call me a "seeker" if you like, I\n>don\'t. \n>_Weak_ atheism is being ignore here, though. Some atheists simply say "I\n>don\'t believe in any god" rather than my position: "I believe that no\n>god(s) exist." For the weak atheist, the is no atheism to disbelieve,\n>because they don\'t actively believe in atheism. (If you think this is\n>confusing, try figuring out the difference between Protestants and\n>Methodists from an atheist point of view :).\n\ni\'m a little confused about the difference between this "weak atheism",\nas you put it, and agnosticism. is agnosticism not believing or\nnecessarily disbelieving in anything, or what is it? i used to be\nagnostic (by this definition) -- but if weak atheism includes not\nnecessarily believing in God, then i guess i was one of those. ???\n\nactually what i have a hard time understanding is people who do not\never decide what they believe. i am constantly in a state of\nself-examination, as it would appear many others are as well (including the\natheists, of course -- i\'d assume that\'s why they\'re here!). i guess\nsome people don\'t really consider it important to think about the\nanswers to "life, the universe and everything" -- any comment? just\nwondering....\n\n>This is another fallacy many theists seem to have, that everyone believes in\n>something (followed up by "everyone has faith in something"). Guess what?\n>My atheism ends the moment I\'m shown a proof of some god\'s existence. Is\n>that really too much to ask?\n\ntough call, as these things seem to be based on faith -- wish i could\nhelp you, but i already tried once with someone who was a\nself-professed agnostic-thinking-of-becoming-a -christian, and it\ndidn\'t work too well! especially tough as i\'m still mulling over\nwhether or not i believe in miracles (looks like another email to my\nchaplain is coming up....). all i can do is wish you the best of\nluck, and please do post what you find.\n\n>And I told you that I find faith to be intellectually dishonest. Note that\n>I can only speak for myself. If you find faith to be honest, show me how.\n\nhmm, how so? i guess i really don\'t understand. there are times, of\ncourse, when i say to myself "of course i have absolutely no way of\nknowing that what i believe in is true except the satisfaction and\nsense of peace i get from it -- which of course could just be\npsychological". somehow i live with this anyway -- is this what you\nmean?\n\nthe only "proof" i have is that i believe God spoke to me once --\nwhich could of course be my own imagination. the odd thing is,\nthough, that if you don\'t at some point start believing in something,\nafter a while it all gets sort of ridiculous. maybe it\'s just a\nquestion of where you draw the line.\n\n>I have been unable to reconcile it so far. Maybe that\'s how I\'m "broken"?\n>I tell you that I have invisible fairies living in my garden and that\n>you should just take my word for it. If you accept that, you are of a\n>fundamentally different mind than I and I really would like to know how you\n>think. All I ask for is proof of the assertion "God exists". Logical or\n>physical proofs only, please. Then we\'ll discuss the nature of "God".\n\ni\'ll only add one question -- have you read pascal? what did you\nthink of him if you did?\n\nalso you may (or may not) be interested by cslewis/ _surprised by\njoy_. i\'d be interested in knowing what you think of him, no sarcasm\nat all intended. (i just say this because one can never know how\none\'s written words will be interpreted. i am not interested in\nconverting you, since i don\'t seem to have whatever it would take --\nproof -- to do so. i\'m just interested in learning.)\n\n>Muppets and garlic toast forever,\n\ni like this.\n\n>Max (Bob) Muir\n\ncheers,\nvera\n________\ni give you everything\t\tdisclaimer: of course i don\'t agree with\nmy sweet everything\t\ttrent reznor\'s (nin\'s) theology. i think \n - nine inch nails\t\tit\'s interesting nonetheless.\nnoye@midway.uchicago.edu \t(vera noyes)\n',
'From: hchung@nyx.cs.du.edu (H. Anthony Chung)\nSubject: Localized fat reduction due to exercise (question).\nOrganization: Nyx, Public Access Unix @ U. of Denver Math/CS dept.\nLines: 9\n\nI was just wondering if exercises specific to particular regions of the\nbody (such as thighs) will basically only tone the thighs, or if fat\nfrom other parts of the body (such as breasts) would be affected just as\nmuch.\n--\n ___ ___ ________ _______+--------H. Anthony Chung--------+--C= AMIGAs--+\n / //_/ // / ___ // / ____//|Case Western Reserve University | /\\/\\ R The |\n / ___ // / ___ // / //___~ | School of Dentistry | \\ / Future|\n/_// /_// /_// /_// /_____// +-hac@po.CWRU.Edu-(Cabal on IRC)-+-ac\\/is------+\n',
'From: gtd259a@prism.gatech.edu (Matt Kressel)\nSubject: a few questions\nOrganization: Georgia Institute of Technology\nLines: 64\n\n\n\tI am writing a paper on religion and how it reflects \nand or affects modern music. This brief questionaire is summary of\nthe questions I would like answered. A response is requested and \ncan be mailed to me directly at: \n \n gtd259a@prism.gatech.edu \n \n *PLEASE MAIL - DO NOT POST*\n\nThanks in advance,\nMatt Kressel\n\n\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\n\n1.) How do you feel about groups like Diecide, Slayer, and Dio who\nfreely admit to practicing satanism and preach it in their songs?\n\n\n2.) How do you feel about groups like Petra, old Stryper, Whitecross,\nand Holy Soldier who promote and sing about Cristianity?\n\n\n3.) How do you feel about groups like Front 242, XTC, Revolting Cocks,\nMinor Threat, and Ministry who condone and sing about atheism?\n\n\n4.) How do you feel about bands like Shelter who preach the Hare\nKrishna religion and other minority(but not unheard of) religions?\n\n\n5.a) Do you feel there is any difference between promoting music that\nsupports Cristianity and music that condones satanism?\n\n b) Why do you feel this way?\n\n\n6.) What types of music do you listen to?\n\n\n7.a) How often do you purchase music?\n\n b) How often does that music contain lyrics with undertones in\nreligion?\n\n\n8.a) Do you feel that music one listens to affects the way one views\na particular religion? Religion in general?\n\n b) How does it affect the way you view your religion? All religions?\n\n\n9.) FEEL FREE TO ADD ANY COMMENTS HERE\n\n\n\n\n\n-- \n_____________________________________________________________________________\nMatthew Owen Kressel(gtd259a@prism.gatech.edu)\n"...nothing settles a man\'s mind more wonderfully than the knowledge that he\nwill be hanged in the morning." - Arthur C. Clarke\n',
'From: sdb@ssr.com (Scott Ballantyne)\nSubject: Re: Burzynski\'s "Antineoplastons"\nIn-Reply-To: jschwimmer@wccnet.wcc.wesleyan.edu\'s message of 20 Apr 93 22:16:24 EST\nLines: 44\nOrganization: ScotSoft Research\n\nIn article <jschwimmer.123.735362184@wccnet.wcc.wesleyan.edu> jschwimmer@wccnet.wcc.wesleyan.edu (Josh Schwimmer) writes:\n\n Any opinions on Burzynski\'s antineoplastons or information about the current \n status of his research would be appreciated.\n\nBurzynski\'s work is not too promising. None of his A-1 through A-5\nantineoplastons have been shown to have antineoplastic effects against\nexperimental cancer. The NCI conducted tests of A-2 and A-5 against\nleukemia in mice, with the result that doses high enough to produce\ntoxic effects in the mice were not effective in inhibiting the growth\nof the tumor or killing it. (These were in 1983 and 1985)\n\nBurzynski claims that A-10 is the active factor common to all of A-1\nand A-5 (something which he has not shown, A-10 has only been\nextracted from A-2. He also hasn\'t shown that A-1 through A-5 are actually\ndistinct substances). The NCI conducted a series of tests using A-10\nagainst a standard panel of tumors that included different cell lines\nfrom tumors in the following classes: leukemia, non-small-cell and\nsmall-cell lung cancer, colon cancer, cancer of the central nervous\nsystem, melanoma, ovarian cancer and renal cancer. A-10 exhibited\nneither growth inhibition nor cytotoxicity at the dose levels tested.\n\nIt is necessary to process A-10 since it is not soluble (Burzynski\'s\ntheory requires soluble agents), but this basically hydrolizes it to\nPAG (which he calls AS 2.5). PAG is not an information carrying\npeptide, something which Byrzynski claims is necessary for\nantineoplastic activity. AS 2.1 (also derived from A-10) is a 4:1\nmixture of PA and PAG. PA (also not a peptide) can be purchased at a\nchemical supply houses for about $0.09 a gram. A-10 is chemically\nextremely similar to glutithamide and thalidomide, both of which are\nhabit forming and can cause peripheral neuropathy. The nasty effects\nof thalidomide are widely known. In spite of this similarity, A-10\ndoes not appear to have been tested for it\'s potential to induce\nteratogenicity or peripheral neuropathy.\n\nMany of Burzynski\'s statements about the origin of his theory, early\nresearch, past and present support by others for his work have been\nshown to be untrue.\n\n\nsdb\n---\nsdb@ssr.com\n\n',
'From: lilley@v5.cgu.mcc.ac.uk (Chris Lilley)\nSubject: Re: RGB to HVS, and back\nLines: 26\nReply-To: C.C.Lilley@mcc.ac.uk\nOrganization: Computer Graphics Unit, MCC\n\n\nIn article <ltu4buINNe7j@caspian.usc.edu>, zyeh@caspian.usc.edu (zhenghao yeh)\nwrites:\n\n>|> See Foley, van Dam, Feiner, and Hughes, _Computer Graphics: Principles\n>|> and Practice, Second Edition_.\n>|> \n>|> [If people would *read* this book, 75 percent of the questions in this\n>|> froup would disappear overnight...]\n>|> \n>\tNot really. I think it is less than 10%.\n\nOr alternatively, 75% of the questions cover 10% of the topics in this group -\nmaking them frequently asked.\n\nSo the other 25% cover 90% of the topics, making them rarely asked and thus in\nsore need of answering ...\n\n--\nChris Lilley\n----------------------------------------------------------------------------\nTechnical Author, ITTI Computer Graphics and Visualisation Training Project\nComputer Graphics Unit, Manchester Computing Centre, Oxford Road, \nManchester, UK. M13 9PL Internet: C.C.Lilley@mcc.ac.uk \nVoice: +44 (0)61 275 6045 Fax: +44 (0)61 275 6040 Janet: C.C.Lilley@uk.ac.mcc\n------------------------------------------------------------------------------\n',
'From: mavmav@mksol.dseg.ti.com (michael a vincze)\nSubject: Re: Chromium for weight loss\nNntp-Posting-Host: localhost\nOrganization: Texas Instruments\nLines: 101\n\nIn article <93119.141946U18183@uicvm.uic.edu>, <U18183@uicvm.uic.edu> writes:\n|> There is no data to show chromium is effective in promoting weight loss. The\n|> few studies that have been done using chromium have been very flawed and inher\n|> ently biased (the investigators were making money from marketing it).\n|> Theoretically it really doesnt make sense either. The claim is that chromium\n|> will increase muscle mass and decrease fat. Of course, chromium is also used t\n|> o cure diabetes, high blood pressure and increase muscle mass in athletes(just\n|> as well as anabolic steroids). Sounds like snake oil for the 1990\'s :-)\n\n\n\nWhere are your references? I have been unable to find studies that state\nthat chromium "cures diabetese". It can reduce the amount of insulin you\nhave to take. "High blood pressure" - I have never heard of this claim\nbefore. "... anabolic steroids" - I have also never heard of this claim\nbefore. Sounds like you are making things up and stretching the truth\nfor God knows what reason. Did somebody piss you off at one time?\n\n\n\n|> On the other hand, it really cant hurt you anywhere but your wallet, and place\n|> bo effects of anything can be pretty dramatic...\n\n\n\nI agree with you that chromium picolinate by itself isn\'t likely\nto make a fat person thin. But it can be the decisive component\nof an overall strategy for long-term weight control and make an\nimportant contribution to good health. It is important to\nexercise (11, 12) and also avoid fat calories (9, 10).\n\nChromium picolinate has shown to reduce fat and increase\nlean muscle (1, 2, 3). I will not bore you with the\nstatistics. You wouldn\'t believe these anyway.\n\nChromium Picolinate is an exceptionally bioactive source of\nthe essential mineral chromium. Chromium plays a vital role\nin "sensitizing" the body\'s tissues to the hormone insulin.\nWeight gain in the form of fat tends to impair sensitivity\nto insulin and thus, in turn, makes it harder to lose\nweight (4).\n\nInsulin directly stimulates protein synthesis and retards\nprotein breakdown in muscles (5, 6). This "protein sparing"\neffect of insulin tends to decline during low calorie diets\nas insulin levels decline, which results in loss of muscle\nand organ tissue. By "sensitizing" muscle to insulin,\nchromium picolinate helps to preserve muscle in dieters\nso that they "burn" more fat and less muscle. Preservation\nof lean body mass has an important long-term positive\neffect on metabolic rate, helping dieters keep off the\nfat they\'ve lost.\n\nChromium picolinate promotes efficient metabolism by aiding\nthe thermogenic (heat producing) effects of insulin.\nInsulin levels serve as a rough index of the availability\nof food calories, so it\'s not at all surprising that insulin \nstimulates metabolism (4, 7, 8). Note that I did not say\nthat chromium picolinate increases metabolism.\n\nIn summary, you need to change your life style in order to\nloose weight and stay healthy:\n\n A. Reduce dietary fat consumption to no more than 20% of calories.\n - Eating fat makes you fat.\n\n B. Increase dietary fiber\n - low in calories; high in nutrients.\n\n C. Get regular aerobic exercise at least 3 times a week\n - burn calories.\n\n D. Take chromium picolinate daily\n - lose fat; keep muscle\n\n\nReferences:\n\n1. Kaats GR, Fisher JA, Blum K. Abstract, American Aging\n Association, 21st Annual Meeting, Denver, October 1991.\n2. Evans, GW. Int J Biosoc Med Res 1989; 11: 163-180.\n3. Page TG, Ward TL, Southern LL. J Animal Sci 69, Suppl 1:\n Abstract 403, 1991.\n4. Felig P. Clin Physiol 1984; 4: 267-273.\n5. Kimball SR, Jefferson LS. Diabetes Metab Rev 4: 773, 1988.\n6. Fukugawa NK, Minaher KL, Rowe JW. et al. J Clin Invest 76:\n 2306, 1985.\n7. Fehlmann M, Freychet P. Biol Chem 256: 7449, 1981\n8. Pittman CS, Suda AK, Chambers JB, Jr., Ray GY. Metabolism\n 28: 333, 1979.\n9. Danforth E, Jr. Am J Clin Nutr 41: 1132, 1985.\n10. McCarty MF. Med Hypoth 20: 183, 1986.\n11. Bielinski R, Schutz Y, Jequier E. Am J Clin Nutr 42:69, 1985.\n12. Young JC, Treadway JL, Balon TW, Garvas HP, Ruderman NB.\n Metabolism 35: 1048, 1986.\n\n\nBest regards,\nMichael Vincze\nmav@asd470.dseg.ti.com\n\n',
'From: einkauf@austin.ibm.com (Mark Einkauf)\nSubject: Re: Need help: Z-buffering lines & areas together\nOriginator: mark@einkauf.austin.ibm.com\nOrganization: IBM Austin\nKeywords: Z-buffer, roundoff, lines, areas\nLines: 105\n\n\n David Gorgen writes:\n\n> I\'m asking for help on a sticky problem involving unreasonably low\n> apparent precision in Z-buffering, that I\'ve encountered in 2 different\n> PEX implementations. I can\'t find any discussion of this problem in any\n> resources I can lay hands on (e.g. the comp.windows.x.pex FAQ, Gaskins\'s\n> _PEXlib_Programming_Manual_, vendors\' documentation).\n>\n> ....\n>\n> The problem to be solved is to eliminate or minimize "stitching"\n> artifacts resulting from the use of Z-buffering with polylines that are\n> coplanar with filled areas. The interpolated Z values along a line will\n> differ slightly, due to roundoff error, from the interpolated Z values\n> across an area, even when the endpoints of the line are coincident with\n> vertices of the area. Because of this, it\'s a tossup whether the\n> Z-buffer will allow the line pixels or the area pixels to be displayed.\n> Visually, the result tends to be a dashed-line effect even though the\n> line is supposed to be solid.\n>\n> Using the PEXlib API, my approach to a solution is to use two slightly\n> different PEX view mapping transforms, in two view table entries, one\n> for the areas and one for the lines. The PEX structures or immediate-\n> mode output must be organized so that one view table index is always in\n> effect for areas, and the other is always in effect for lines. The\n> result is a slight shift in NPC Z coordinates for the lines, so as to\n> attempt to bias the tossup situations in favor of the lines.\n>\n> This shift is effected by moving the front and back clipping planes used\n> in the PEXlib view table entry for lines just a hair "backwards" (i.e.\n> smaller VRC Z coordinates), compared to their positions in the view\n> table entry used for areas. This means that when a point is transformed\n> to NPC, its Z value will be slightly bigger if it comes from a line than\n> if it comes from an area, thus accomplishing the desired bias.\n>\n> I would expect the Z roundoff errors which cause the problem to amount\n> to a few units at most, out of the entire dynamic range of the Z-buffer,\n> typically from 0 to 65535 if not 16777215 (i.e. 16 or 24 bit Z-buffers).\n> Therefore, it seems that a tiny fraction of the range of Z in VRC\n> between the front and back clip planes ought to suffice to reliably fix\n> the stitching.\n>\n> But in fact, experience shows that the shift has to be as much as 0.003\n> to 0.006 of the range. (Empirically, it\'s worst when the NPC Z\n> component of the slope of the surface is high, i.e. when it appears more\n> or less edge-on to the viewer.) It\'s as if only 8 or 9 bits of the\n> Z-buffer have any dependable meaning! This amount is so great that one\n> problem is replaced by another: sometimes the polylines "show through"\n> areas which they are supposed to lie behind.\n>\n> I\'ve observed the problem on both Hewlett-Packard and Digital\n> workstation PEX servers, to approximately the same degree. The test\n> program demonstrates the problem on an MIT PEXlib 5.x implementation;\n> this version is known to compile and run on an HP-UX system with PEX\n> 5.1.\n>\n> Open questions:\n> (1) Why does this happen?\n> -- Am I configuring the PEX view table wrongly?\n> -- Is there a systematic difference in Z interpolation for lines\n> as opposed to areas (e.g. pixel centers versus corners) which\n> could be corrected for?\n> -- Are PEX implementors wantonly discarding Z precision in their\n> interpolators?\n> -- Something else?\n> (2) What to do about it?\n> -- Can I fix my use of the view table to allow better precision\n> in Z-buffered HLHSR?\n> -- Is there another approach I can take to remove the stitching\n> artifacts?\n> -- Am I just out of luck?\n>\n\nWe here at IBM have the same problem with our workstations. I was also\nshocked when I first realized that you have to offset lines from fills by\nabout 16 bits (assuming 24 bit z buffer). This seems huge, but is only\n1/256 of the dynamic range. In those terms it doesn\'t seem so bad. What\nis happening is that the interpolation in z is not totally linear, due\nmainly to roundoff, I believe. So the polygon is not planar in z, but is\nmore like a Ruffles potato chip. Ditto with lines. When you start/end at\ndifferent x/y values, the "ridges" are out of phase, resulting in the\nstitch effect. You have the same problem if you try to draw 1 polygon\nright on top of another, but with different vertices. You will likely see\na smeared effect where they overlap.\n Example:\n Try Polygon 1: (100,100,100) (100,200,100) (200,200,100) (200,100,100)\n Polygon 2: (125,125,100) (125,175,100) (175,175,100) (175,125,100)\n\nYour implementation is correct. In fact, we do a similar trick when\nrendering primitives that have lines and polygons - such as NURBS surfaces\nwith isoparametric lines. Without the trick, the lines appear stitched, as\nyou say. When the application draws lines/polygons independently, the\nsystem does not have the smarts to automatically do the z shifting, so the\napplication must do it. This is what you have discovered and are doing.\nBravo!\n\n(Note to IBM\'ers: The information given here has been previously disclosed\nthrough proper channels so I\'m not giving away any new unpublished info.)\n\n-- \n Mark Einkauf [ einkauf@austin.ibm.com ]\n IBM - Advanced Workstations and Systems - Graphics Systems\n Austin TX\n * Views and opinions expressed herein are not necessarily those of IBM Corp. *\n',
'From: shimeall@cs.nps.navy.mil (timothy shimeall)\nSubject: Re: Homosexuality issues in Christiani\nOrganization: Naval Postgraduate School, Monterey CA\nLines: 32\n\nThe cited passages are covered IN DEPTH in a FAQ for this group.\nThat particular FAQ (I\'ve forgotten the author) discusses the\ntraditional vs. pro-homosexual interpretations of the passages and\nindicates which points have strong textual support.\n\nPerhaps the moderator might give again the instructions for\nretrieving the FAQ on this topic?\n\nBTW, this issue, while dealt with before, is VERY timely. One\nof the major Presbyterian churches in California (St. Andrews -- a \nMegaChurch in a rich neighborhood) is withholding their support of \nSynod (amounts to about 10% of the budget of the Synod, which \ncovers all of Southern CA and Hawaii) until support for a \npro-homosexual lobbying group (the Lazarus Project) is terminated.\n[This came from a news report on CNN yesterday -- corrections welcome.]\n\t\t\t\t\tTim\n\n[I think it\'s time for me to post the FAQ. \n\nThis is an issue throughout the Presbyterian Church. On the other\nside, one of the major churches in Cincinnati has been ordaining\nhomosexual elders, and has ignored Presbytery instructions not to do\nso. And the church in Rochester where the judicial commission said\nthey couldn\'t install a homosexual pastor has made her an\n"evangelist". These situations, as well as the one you describe, do\nnot appear to be stable. This will certainly be a major topic for the\nGeneral Assembly next month. If the church can\'t come up with a\nsolution that will let people live with each other, I think we\'re end\nup with a split. Clearly neither side wants that, but I think we\'ll\nget pushed into it by actions of both sides.\n\n--clh]\n',
"From: kax@cs.nott.ac.uk (Kevin Anthoney)\nSubject: Re: Christian Morality is\nOrganization: Nottingham University\nLines: 16\n\nIn article <4949@eastman.UUCP> dps@nasa.kodak.com writes:\n>\n>The fact is God could cause you to believe anything He wants you to. \n>But think about it for a minute. Would you rather have someone love\n>you because you made them love you, or because they wanted to\n>love you. ...\n\nThere's a difference between believing in the existence of an entity,\nand loving that entity. God _could_ show me directly that he exists,\nand I'd still have a free choice about whether to love him or not. So\nwhy doesn't he?\n-- \n------------------------------------------------------------------------\nKevin Anthoney kax@cs.nott.ac.uk\n Don't believe anything you read in .sig files.\n------------------------------------------------------------------------\n",
'From: cctr114@cantua.canterbury.ac.nz (Bill Rea)\nSubject: Re: Portland earthquake\nOrganization: University of Canterbury, Christchurch, New Zealand.\nLines: 55\n\nPaul Hudson Jr (hudson@athena.cs.uga.edu) wrote:\n> In article <May.7.01.09.33.1993.14542@athos.rutgers.edu> cctr114@cantua.canterbury.ac.nz (Bill Rea) writes:\n\n>>in history seems to imply some pretty serious sin. The one of the \n>>pastors in the church I attend, Christchurch City Elim, considers \n>>that a prophesy of a natural disaster as a "judgement from the Lord" \n>>is a clear sign that the "prophesy" is not from the Lord. \n>\n>I would like to see his reasoning behind this. You may have gotten \n\nIf I get a chance I will ask them this weekend.\n\n>"burned" by natural disaster prophecies down there, but that\n>does not mean that every natural disaster/judgement prophecy is\n>false. Take a quick look at the book of Jeremiah and it is obvious\n ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^\n>that judgement prophecies can be valid. here in the US, it seems like\n>we might have more of a problem with positive prophecies, though I\n>am sure there may be a few people who are too into judgement.\n\nThe words I have underlined are at the heart of the problem. A "quick\nlook" doesn\'t do justice to the depth of the book of Jeremiah. Having\nstudied the Jeremiah/Ezekial period solidly for over a year at one\nstage of my life, I have to say that there is a great deal of underlying\ntheological meaning in the judgement prophesies. Let me make one point.\nThe clash between Jeremiah and the "false prophets" was primarily in\nthe theological realm. The "false prophets" understood their relatioship\nto God to be based on the covenant that the Lord made with David. It is\npossible to trace within the pages of the Old Testament who this covenant,\nwhich was initially conditional on the continued obedience of David\'s\ndescendants, came to be viewed as an unconditional promise on the part\nof the Lord to keep a descendant of David\'s upon the throne and to never\nallow Jerusalem to subjegated by any foreign power. Jeremiah was not a\nJudahite prophet. He was from Anathoth, across the border in what had formerly\nbeen Israelite territory. When he came to prophesy, he came from the\ntheological background of the covenant the Lord had made with Israel\nthrough Moses. The northern Kingdom had rejected the Davidic covenant\nafter the death of Solomon. His theology clashed with the theology of the\nlocal prophets. It was out of a very deep understanding of the Mosaic\ncovenant and an actute awareness of international events that Jeremiah\nspoke his prophesies. The "judgement prophesies" were deeply loaded with\ntheological meaning.\n\nIn my opinion, both the Portland earthquake prophesy and the David Wilkerson\n"New York will burn" prophesy are froth and bubble compared to the majestic\ntheological depths of the Jeremiah prophesies.\n\n--\n ___\nBill Rea (o o)\n-------------------------------------------------------------------w--U--w---\n| Bill Rea, Computer Services Centre, | E-Mail b.rea@csc.canterbury.ac.nz |\n| University of Canterbury, | or cctr114@csc.canterbury.ac.nz |\n| Christchurch, New Zealand | Phone (03)-642-331 Fax (03)-642-999 |\n-----------------------------------------------------------------------------\n',
'From: bill@twg.bc.ca (Bill Irwin)\nSubject: Re: What WAS the immaculate conception\nReply-To: bill@twg.bc.ca (Bill Irwin)\nOrganization: The Westrheim Group (TWG)\nLines: 53\n\nragraca@vela.acs.oakland.edu (Randy A. Graca) writes:\n\n: Consequently,\n: this verse indicates that she was without sin. Also, as was observed at\n: the very top of this post, Mary had to be free from sin in order to be the\n: mother of Jesus, who was definitely without sin.\n\nIf the mother of Jesus had to be without sin in order to give\nbirth to God, then why didn\'t Mary\'s mother have to be without\nsin in order to give birth to the perfect vessel for Jesus? For\nthat matter, why didn\'t Mary\'s grandmother have to be without sin\neither? Seems to me that with all the original sin flowing\nthrough each person, the need for the last one (Mary) to have\nnone puts God in a box, where we say that He couldn\'t have\nincarnated Himself through a normal human being.\n\nMy God is an all powerful God, Who can do whatever suits His\npurpose. This includes creating a solar system and planet earth\nwith the appearance of great age; providing a path through the\nRed Sea for the children of Israel that does not depend on the\nexistence of a ridge of high ground and a wind blowing at the\nright speed and direction; and the birth of Himself from a normal\nsinful person without being tainted by her original sin.\n\nI see far too much focus on the "objects" of religion and not\nnearly enough on the personal relationship that is available to\nall believers with the Author of our existence, without the\nnecessity of having this relationship channeled through conduits\nto God in the form of Mary, Apostles and a Pope.\n\n: Note that the idea of Mary being conceived without Original Sin, i.e. the\n: Immaculate Conception, is distinct from the idea of Mary not having sinned\n: during her lifetime, which is a separate doctrine and, I believe, also\n: held by the Catholic Church.\n\nIf Mary was born without original sin, and didn\'t sin during her\nlifetime, how is she any different from Jesus? This means the\nworld has had two perfect humans: one died to take away the sins\nof the world; the other gave birth to Him? I would certainly\nwant to see some scriptural support for this before I would start\npraying to anyone other than God. Everything I have ever read\nfrom the bible teaches me that Jesus was and is the only sinless\nLamb of God, not His mother, grandmother........\n\n: Hope this is useful to you.\n\nVery useful in helping me understand some of the RC beliefs.\nThank you.\n-- \nBill Irwin - The Westrheim Group - Vancouver, BC, Canada\n~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~\nuunet!twg!bill (604) 431-9600 (voice) | Your Computer \nbill@twg.bc.ca (604) 430-4329 (fax) | Systems Partner\n',
'From: res4w@galen.med.Virginia.EDU (Robert E. Schmieg)\nSubject: Re: Quack-Quack (was Re: Candida(yeast) Bloom, Fact or Fiction)\nOrganization: University of Virginia\nLines: 48\n\nken@isis.cns.caltech.edu writes:\n> I don\'t know the first thing about yeast infections but I am a scientist.\n> No scientist would take your statement --- "no convincing empirical evidence\n> to support the existence of systemic yeast syndrome" --- to tell you\n> anything except an absence of data on the question.\nThe burden of proof rests upon those who claim the existence\nof this "syndrome". To date, these claims are unsubstantiated\nby any available data. Hopefully, as a scientist, you would\ntake issue with anyone overstating their conclusions based\nupon their data.\n\n> beasties with present methods even if they were there. Noring and the\n> fellow from Oklahoma (sorry, forgot your name) have also suggested one set\n> of anecdotal evidence in favor based on their personal experiences ---\n> namely, that when people with certain conditions are given anti-fungals,\n> many of them appear to get better. \nGee, I have many interesting and enlightening anecdotes about\nmyself, my friends, and my family, but in the practice of\nmedicine I expect and demand more rigorous rationales for\nbasing therapy than "Aunt Susie\'s brother-in-law ...".\n\nAnecdotal evidence may provide inspiration for a hypothesis,\nbut rarely proves anything in a positive sense. And unlike\nmathematics, boolean logic rarely applies directly to medical\nissues, and so evidence of \'exceptions\' does not usually\ndisprove but rather modifies current concepts of disease.\n\n> So, if you have any evidence *against* the hypothesis --- for example,\n> controlled double-blind studies showing that the anti-fungals don\'t do any\n> better than sugar water --- then let\'s hear it. If you don\'t, then what we\n> have is anecdotal and uncontrolled evidence on one side, and abject\n> disbelief on the other. In which case, please, there is no point in yelling\n> back and forth at each other any longer since neither side has any\n> convincing evidence either positive or negative. \nI would characterize it not as \'abject disbelief\' but rather \n\'scientific outrage over vastly overstated conclusions\'.\n\n> it appears to me the main question now is whether the proponents can\n> marshall enough anecdotal evidence in a convincing and documented enough\n> manner to make a good case for carrying out a good controlled double-blind\n> study of antifungals (or else, forget convincing anybody else to carry out\n> the test, just carry it out themselves!) --- and also, whether they can\n> adequately define the patient population or symptoms on which such a study\n> should be carried out to provide a fair test of the hypothesis.\nI have no problem with such an approach; but this is NOT what\nis happening in the \'trenches\' of this diagnosis.\n\nBob Schmieg\n',
"From: yozzo@watson.ibm.com (Ralph Yozzo)\nSubject: Cold Sore Location?\nDisclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not necessarily those of IBM.\nNntp-Posting-Host: king-arthur.watson.ibm.com\nOrganization: IBM T.J. Watson Research Center\nLines: 11\n\nI've had cold sores in the past. But they have always been in the \ncorner of my mouth. Recently, I've had what appears to be\na cold sore, but on my lower lip in the middle (above the chin).\n\nCan cold sores appear anywhere around the mouth (or body)?\n\nIs there a medical term for cold sore?\n\n-- \n Ralph Yozzo (yozzo@watson.ibm.com) \n From the beautiful and historic New York State Mid-Hudson Valley.\n",
'From: grieggs@jpl-devvax.jpl.nasa.gov (John T. Grieggs)\nSubject: (26Apr93) comp.graphics Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ)\nOriginator: grieggs@cerberus\nNntp-Posting-Host: cerberus\nReply-To: grieggs <grieggs@jpl-devvax.jpl.nasa.gov>\nOrganization: Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, CA\nExpires: Mon, 10 May 1993 16:05:30 GMT\nLines: 956\n\nArchive-name: graphics/faq\n\nThis message is automatically posted once a week or so in an effort to\ncut down on the repetitive junk in comp.graphics. It was last changed\non 26Apr93. If you have answers to other frequently asked questions that\nyou would like included in this posting, please send me mail. If you\ndon\'t want to see this posting every week, please add the subject line\nto your kill file. Thank you.\n\nIf your copy of the FAQ is more than a couple of weeks old, you may want to\nseek out the most recent version. The latest version of this FAQ is always\navailable on the archive site pit-manager.mit.edu (alias rtfm.mit.edu) as\npub/usenet/news.answers/graphics/faq.\n\n---\n_john\n\n\tJohn Grieggs grieggs@jpl-devvax.jpl.nasa.gov JohnG@portal.com\n---\nLast update: 26Apr93\n\nSorry I haven\'t posted this for a couple of weeks, but I was called out of\ntown due to a death in the family. This is reality, folks.\n\nWhat\'s new?\n\nSIGGRAPH Online Bibliography Project (spencer@cgrg.ohio-state.edu).\n\n\t\tgrieggs@jpl-devvax.jpl.nasa.gov\n\n\n\nContents:\n\n 1) General references for graphics questions.\n 2) Drawing three-dimensional objects on a two-dimensional screen.\n 3) Quantizing 24 bit images down to 8 bits.\n 4) Converting color into grayscale.\n 5) Quantizing grayscale to black&white.\n 6) Rotating a raster image by an arbitrary angle.\n 7) Free image manipulation software.\n 8) Format documents for TIFF, IFF, BIFF, NFF, OFF, FITS, etc.\n 9) Converting between vector formats.\n 10) How to get Pixar films.\n 11) How do I draw a circle as a Bezier (or B-spline) curve?\n 12) How to order standards documents.\n 13) How to FTP by email.\n 14) How to tell whether a point is within a planar polygon.\n 15) How to tessellate a sphere.\n 16) Specific references on ray-tracing and global illumination.\n 17) SIGGRAPH information online\n 18) SIGGRAPH Panels Proceedings available\n 19) Graphics mailing lists\n 20) Specific references on file formats\n 21) What about GIF?\n 22) What is morphing?\n 23) How to ray-trace height fields\n 24) How to find the area of a 3D polygon\n 25) How to join ACM/SIGGRAPH\n 26) Where can I find MRI and CT scan volume data?\n 27) Specific references on spatial data structures including quadtrees\n\tand octrees\n 28) Where can I get a program to plot XY(Z) data or f(x) data?\n 29) Specific references on PEX and PHIGS\n 30) SIGGRAPH Online Bibliography Project\n\n\n1) General references for graphics questions:\n\n Computer Graphics: Principles and Practice (2nd Ed.), J.D. Foley,\n\tA. van Dam, S.K. Feiner, J.F. Hughes, Addison-Wesley 1990, ISBN\n\t0-201-12110-7\n Procedural Elements for Computer Graphics, David F. Rogers, McGraw\n\tHill 1985, ISBN 0-07-053534-5\n Mathematical Elements for Computer Graphics 2nd Ed., David F. Rogers\n\tand J. Alan Adams, McGraw Hill 1990, ISBN 0-07-053530-2\n Three Dimensional Computer Graphics, Alan Watt, Addison-Wesley 1990, ISBN\n\t0-201-15442-0\n An Introduction to Ray Tracing, Andrew Glassner (ed.), Academic Press\n\t1989, ISBN 0-12-286160-4\n Graphics Gems, Andrew Glassner (ed.), Academic Press 1990, ISBN\n\t0-12-286165-5\n Graphics Gems II, James Arvo (ed.), Academic Press 1991, ISBN\n\t0-12-64480-0\n Graphics Gems III, David Kirk (ed.), Academic Press 1992, ISBN\n\t0-12-409670-0 (with IBM disk) or 0-12-409671-9 (with Mac disk)\n Digital Image Warping, George Wolberg, IEEE Computer Society Press\n\tMonograph 1990, ISBN 0-8186-8944-7\n Digital Image Processing (2nd Ed.), Rafael C. Gonzalez, Paul Wintz,\n\tAddison-Wesley 1987, ISBN 0-201-11026-1\n A Programmer\'s Geometry, Adrian Bowyer, John Woodwark, Butterworths 1983,\n\tISBN 0-408-01242-0 Pbk\n\nAn automatic mail handler at Brown University allows users of "Computer\nGraphics: Principles and Practice," by Foley, van Dam, Feiner, and\nHughes, to obtain text errata and information on distribution of the\nsoftware packages described in the book. Also, users can send the\nauthors feedback, to report text errors and software bugs, make\nsuggestions, and submit exercises. To receive information describing\nhow you can use the mail handler, simply mail graphtext@cs.brown.edu\nand put the word "Help" in the Subject line. Use the Subject line\n"Software-Distribution" to receive information specifically concerning\nthe software packages SRGP and SPHIGS.\n\nErrata for "An Introduction to Ray Tracing" is available on\nwuarchive.wustl.edu in graphics/graphics/books/IntroToRT.errata.\n\nErrata for "Digital Image Warping" is in the same directory as\n"Digital-Image-Warping.errata".\n\nAll C code from the "Graphics Gems" series is available via anonymous ftp\nfrom princeton.edu. Look in the directory pub/Graphics/GraphicsGems for\nthe various volumes (Gems, GemsII, GemsIII), and get the README file first.\n\nErrata to _Graphics Gems_ and _Graphics Gems II is available on\nwuarchive.wustl.edu in graphics/graphics/books.\n\nA list of computer graphics, computational geometry and image processing\njournals is available from Juhana Kouhia, jk87377@cs.tut.fi.\n\n\n2) Drawing three-dimensional objects on a two-dimensional screen.\n\nThe simple answer is, you divide by the depth. For a more verbose\nexplanation, see any of the above references, starting with:\n\nThe Foley & Van Dam & Feiner & Hughes "Computer Graphics" book is certainly\na good start. Chapter 6 is "Viewing in 3D", then read chapter 15,\n"Visible-Surface Determination". For more information go to chapter 16 for\nshading, chapter 19 for clipping, and branch out from there.\n\n\n3) Quantizing 24 bit images down to 8 bits.\n\nFind a copy of "Color Image Quantization for Frame Buffer Display" by\nPaul Heckbert, SIGGRAPH \'82 Proceedings, page 297. There are other\nalgorithms, but this one works well and is fairly simple. Implementations\nare included in most raster toolkits (see item 7 below).\n\nA variant method is described in "Graphics Gems", p. 287-293. Note that\nthe code from the "Graphics Gems" series is all available from an FTP site,\nas described above.\n\nCheck out John Bradley\'s "Diversity Algorithm", which is incorporated into\nthe xv package and described in the back of the manual.\n\nThe ImageMagick package (see section 7 for where it is) contains another\nquantizing algorithm which is presented as "doing a better job than the\nother algorithms, but slower".\n\nThere\'s also an implementation of:\n\nWan, Wong, and Prusinkiewicz, _An Algorithm for Multidimensional Data\nClustering_, Transactions on Mathematical Software, Vol. 14 #2 (June, 1988),\npp. 153-162.\n\navialable as princeton.edu:pub/Graphics/colorquant.shar. This code,\nin modified form, appears in the Utah Raster Toolkit as well.\n\n\n4) Converting color into grayscale.\n\nThe NTSC formula is:\n\n luminosity = .299 red + .587 green + .114 blue\n\n\n5) Quantizing grayscale to black&white.\n\nThe only reference you need for this stuff is:\n\n Digital Halftoning, Robert Ulichney, MIT Press 1987, ISBN 0-262-21009-6\n\nBut before you go off and start coding, check out the image manipulation\nsoftware mentioned in item 7 below. All of the packages mentioned can do\nsome form of gray to b&w conversion.\n\n\n6) Rotating a raster image by an arbitrary angle.\n\nThe obvious but wrong method is to loop over the pixels in the source\nimage, transform each coordinate, and copy the pixel to the destination.\nThis is wrong because it leaves holes in the destination. Instead,\nloop over the pixels in the destination image, apply the *reverse*\ntransformation to the coordinates, and copy that pixel from the source.\nThis method is quite general, and can be used for any one-to-one\n2-D mapping, not just rotation. You can add anti-aliasing by doing\nsub-pixel sampling.\n\nHowever, there is a much faster method, with antialising included,\nwhich involves doing three shear operations. The method was originally\ncreated for the IM Raster Toolkit (see below); an implementation is\nalso present in PBMPLUS. Reference: "A Fast Algorithm for Raster\nRotation", by Alan Paeth (awpaeth@watcgl.waterloo.edu) Graphics\nInterface \'86 (Vancouver). An article on the IM toolkit appears in\nthe same journal. An updated version of the rotation paper appears\nin "Graphics Gems" (see section [1]) under the original title.\n\n\n7) Free image manipulation software.\n\nThere are a number of toolkits for converting from one image format to\nanother, doing simple image manipulations such as size scaling, plus\nthe above-mentioned 24 -> 8, color -> gray, gray -> b&w conversions.\nHere are pointers to some of them:\n\n xv by John Bradley. X-based image display, manipulation, and format\n conversion package. XV displays many image formats and permits editing\n of GIF files, among others. The program was updated 5/92; see the file\n contrib/xv-2.21.tar.Z on export.lcs.mit.edu.\n\n PBMPLUS, by Jef Poskanzer. Comprehensive format conversion and image\n manipulation package. The latest version is always available via\n anonymous FTP as ftp.ee.lbl.gov:pbmplus*.tar.Z,\n wuarchive.wustl.edu:graphics/graphics/packages/pbmplus/pbmplus*.tar.Z,\n and export.lcs.mit.edu:contrib/pbmplus*.tar.Z.\n\n IM Raster Toolkit, by Alan Paeth (awpaeth@watcgl.uwaterloo.ca).\n Provides a portable and efficient format and related toolkit. The\n format is versatile in supporting pixels of arbitrary channels,\n components, and bit precisions while allowing compression and machine\n byte-order independence. The kit contains more than 50 tools with\n extensive support of image manipulation, digital halftoning and format\n conversion. Previously distributed on tape c/o the University of\n Waterloo, an FTP version will appear someday.\n\n Utah RLE Toolkit. Conversion and manipulation package, similar to\n PBMPLUS. Available via FTP as cs.utah.edu:pub/urt-*,\n princeton.edu:pub/Graphics/urt-*, and freebie.engin.umich.edu:pub/urt-*.\n\n Fuzzy Pixmap Manipulation, by Michael Mauldin <mlm@nl.cs.cmu.edu>.\n Conversion and manipulation package, similar to PBMPLUS. Version 1.0\n available via FTP as nl.cs.cmu.edu:/usr/mlm/ftp/fbm.tar.Z,\n ftp.uu.net:pub/fbm.tar.Z, and ucsd.edu:graphics/fbm.tar.Z.\n\n Img Software Set, by Paul Raveling <raveling@venera.isi.edu>. Reads and\n writes its own image format, displays on an X11 screen, and does some\n image manipulations. Version 1.3 is available via FTP as\n export.lcs.mit.edu:contrib/img_1.3.tar.Z, and\n venera.isi.edu:pub/img_1.3.tar.Z along with a large collection of color\n images.\n\n Xim, X Image Manipulator, by Philip R. Thompson. It does essential\n interactive image manipulations and uses x11r4 and the OSF/Motif toolkit\n for the interface. It supports images in 1, 8, 24 and 32 bit formats.\n Reads/writes and converts to/from GIF, xwd, xbm, tiff, rle, xim, and\n other formats. Writes level 2 postscript. Other utilities and image\n application library are included. Not a paint package. Available via\n ftp from gis.mit.edu.\n\n xloadimage, by Jim Frost <madd@std.com>. Reads in images in various\n formats and displays them on an X11 screen. Available via FTP as\n export.lcs.mit.edu:contrib/xloadimage*, and in your nearest comp.sources.x\n archive.\n\n xli, by Grame Gill, is an updated xloadimage with numerous improvements\n in both speed and in the number of formats supported. Available in the\n same places as xloadimage (contrib tape, comp.sources.x archives).\n\n TIFF Software, by Sam Leffler <sam@okeeffe.berkeley.edu>. Nice\n portable library for reading and writing TIFF files, plus a few tools\n for manipulating them and reading other formats. Available via FTP as\n ucbvax.berkeley.edu:pub/tiff/*.tar.Z or ftp.uu.net:graphics/tiff.tar.Z\n\n xtiff, an X11 tool for viewing a TIFF file. It was written to handle\n as many different kinds of TIFF files as possible while remaining\n simple, portable and efficient. xtiff illustrates some common problems\n with building pixmaps and using different visual classes. It is\n distributed as part of Sam Leffler\'s libtiff package and it is also\n available on export.lcs.mit.edu, ftp.uu.net and comp.sources.x.\n xtiff 2.0 was announced in 4/91; it includes Xlib and Xt versions.\n\n ALV, a Sun-specific image toolkit. Version 2.0.6 posted to\n comp.sources.sun on 11dec89. Also available via email to\n alv-users-request@cs.bris.ac.uk.\n\n popi, an image manipulation language. Version 2.1 posted to\n comp.sources.misc on 12dec89.\n\n ImageMagick, an X11 package for display and interactive manipulation\n of images. Includes tools for image conversion, annotation, compositing,\n animation, and creating montages. ImageMagick can read and write many of\n the more popular image formats. Available via FTP as\n export.lcs.mit.edu:contrib/ImageMagick.tar.Z.\n\n Khoros, a huge (~100 meg) graphical development environment based on\n X11R4. Khoros components include a visual programming language, code\n generators for extending the visual language and adding new application\n packages to the system, an interactive user interface editor, an\n interactive image display package, an extensive library of image and\n signal processing routines, and 2D/3D plotting packages. Available via\n FTP as pprg.eece.unm.edu:pub/khoros/*.\n\n LaboImage, a SunView-based image processing and analysis package. It\n includes more than 200 image manipulation, processing and measurement\n routines, on-line help, plus tools such as an image editor, a color\n table editor and several biomedical utilities. Available via anonymous\n FTP as ads.com:pub/VISION-LIST-ARCHIVE/SHAREWARE/LaboImage_3.1.tar.Z\n\n The San Diego Supercomputer Center Image Tools, software tools for\n reading, writing, and manipulating raster images. Binaries for some\n machines available via anonymous FTP in sdsc.edu:sdscpub.\n\n The Independent JPEG Group has written a package for reading and\n writing JPEG files. FTP to ftp.uu.net:graphics/jpeg/jpegsrc.v?.tar.Z\n\nDon\'t forget to set binary mode when you FTP tar files. For you MILNET\nfolks who still don\'t have name servers, the IP addresses are:\n\n ads.com\t\t\t128.229.30.16\n cs.utah.edu\t\t\t128.110.4.21\n coral.cs.jcu.edu.au\t\t137.219.17.4\n export.lcs.mit.edu\t\t18.24.0.12\n freebie.engin.umich.edu\t141.212.103.21\n ftp.ee.lbl.gov\t\t128.3.112.20\n ftp.uu.net\t\t\t137.39.1.9 or 192.48.96.9\n gis.mit.edu\t\t\t18.80.1.118\n gondwana.ecr.mu.oz.au\t128.250.70.62\n karazm.math.uh.edu\t\t129.7.7.6\n marsh.cs.curtin.edu.au\t134.7.1.1\n nic.funet.fir\t\t128.214.6.100\n ftp.ncsa.uiuc.edu\t\t141.142.20.50\n nl.cs.cmu.edu\t\t128.2.222.56\n pit-manager.mit.edu\t\t18.172.1.27\n pprg.eece.unm.edu\t\t129.24.24.10\n princeton.edu\t\t128.112.128.1\n sdsc.edu\t\t\t132.249.20.22\n ucbvax.berkeley.edu\t\t128.32.133.1\n venera.isi.edu\t\t128.9.0.32\n weedeater.math.yale.edu\t128.36.23.17\n wuarchive.wustl.edu\t\t128.252.135.4\n zamenhof.cs.rice.edu\t128.42.1.75\n\nPlease do *not* post or mail messages saying "I can\'t FTP, could someone\nmail this to me?" There are a number of automated mail servers that will\nsend you things like this in response to a message. See item 13 below for\ndetails on some.\n\nAlso, the newsgroup alt.graphics.pixutils is specifically for discussion\nof software like this. You may find useful information there.\n\n\n8) Format documents for TIFF, IFF, BIFF, NFF, OFF, FITS, etc.\n\nYou almost certainly don\'t need these. Read the above item 7 on free\nimage manipulation software. Get one or more of these packages and\nlook through them. Chances are excellent that the image converter you\nwere going to write is already there. But if you still want one of the\nformat documents, many such files are available by anonymous ftp from\nzamenhof.cs.rice.edu in directory pub/graphics.formats.\n\nThese files were collected off the net and are believed to be correct.\nThis archive includes pixel formats, and two- and three-dimensional object\nformats. The future of this archive is uncertain at the moment, as Mark\nHall <foo@cs.rice.edu> will apparently no longer be maintaining it.\n\nA second graphics file format archive is now being actively maintained\nby Quincey Koziol (koziol@ncsa.uiuc.edu). The latest version exists at\nftp.ncsa.uiuc.edu in /misc/file.formats/graphics.formats. Apparently,\nneither of these is complete, you might want to check both.\n\nFITS stands for Flexible Image Transport System. It\'s a file format most\noften used in astronomy. Despite the name, it can contain not only images\nbut other things as well. There is a regular monthly FITS basics and\ninformation posting on sci.astro.fits - read it if you want to know more.\n\n\n\n9) Converting between vector formats.\n\nA lot of people ask about converting from HPGL to PostScript, or MacDraw\nto CGM, or whatever. It is important to understand that this is a very\ndifferent problem from the image format conversions in item 7. Converting\none image format to another is a fairly easy problem, since once you\nget past all the file header junk, a pixel is a pixel -- the basic objects\nare the same for all image formats. This is not so for vector formats.\nThe basic objects -- circles, ellipses, drop-shadowed pattern-filled\nround-cornered rectangles, etc. -- vary from one format to another.\nExcept in extremely restricted cases, it is simply not possible to do\na one-to-one conversion between vector formats.\n\nThere is software for converting to and from CGM files on ftp.psc.edu. The\ncontributor states that it runs on Unix, MS-Windows, and possibly the Mac.\nA better, more specific blurb would be most welcome.\n\nOn the other hand, it is quite possible to do a close approximation,\nrendering an image from one format using the primitives from another.\nAs far as I know, no one has put together a general toolkit of such\nconverters, but two different HPGL to PostScript converters have been\nposted to comp.sources.misc. Check the index on your nearest archive\nsite.\n\nA related frequent question is how to convert from some vector format\nto a bitmapped image - from PostScript to Sun raster format, or HPGL to\nX11 bitmap. For example, some of the commercial PostScript clones for\nPC\'s allow you to render to a disk file as well as a printer. Also,\nthe PostScript interpreters in the NeXT box and in Sun\'s X11/NeWs can\nbe used to render to a file if you\'re clever. But in general, the\nanswer is no. However, if someone were to put together a vector to\nvector conversion toolkit, adding a vector to raster converter would be\ntrivial.\n\nGNU ghostscript (from the FSF - current version 2.5.2) includes\ndrivers for both ppm and gif format files, thus it can be used as\na PostScript to ppm or a PostScript to GIF filter. (It implements\nessentially all of PostScript level 1 and alot of Display PostScript\nand level 2).\n\n\n10) How to get Pixar films.\n\nThe various John Lasseter / Pixar computer animated shorts are available\non video tape. You can order them from Direct Cinema Limited:\n\n Film Individual Price Institutional Price\n Luxo, Jr.\t\t\t\t$14.95\t\t\t$50.00\n Red\'s Dream\t\t\t\t$19.95\t\t\t$75.00\n Tin Toy\t\t\t\t$24.95\t\t\t$75.00\n Knickknack\t\t\t\t$24.95\t\t\t$75.00\n Luxo, Jr./Red\'s Dream/Tin Toy\t$39.95\t\t\t$100.00\n\nAll tapes are on 1/2" VHS NTSC. Add $10/tape for PAL format. Also\navailable:\n\n Tin Toy T-shirt\t\t\t$15.00\n Knickknack 3D T-shirt\t\t$15.00 (includes glasses)\n\nFor individual orders, add $5 S&H for the first tape or shirt, $2 for\neach additional tape or shirt. For institutional orders, add $5 S&H\nfor the first tape, $3 for each additional tape. Foreign shipping, add\n$3/tape or shirt. Call 800-525-0000 (213-396-4774 international,\n213-396-3233 FAX) to charge to your credit card. Call first to verify\nprices and availability. Or, just write to:\n\n Direct Cinema Limited\n 1749 14th Street\n Santa Monica, CA 90404-4342\n\nAllan Braunsdorf has this to say:\n\nAt SIGGRAPH they were selling a tape with all four shorts\nfor $25. That was a sale price. You can get it for slightly\nmore than that normally. ($35 maybe.) I believe it\'s\navailable from RenderMan Retail (at Pixar\'s address).\n\n Pixar\n 1001 West Cutting Blvd.\n Richmond, CA. 94804\n (510) 236-4000 \n (510) 236-0388 (FAX)\n\nYou can obtain a video directly from Pixar which contains "Luxo, Jr.", "Red\'s\nDream", "Tin Toy" and "Knicknack" for $25.00, plus $2.50 for shipping. They\nwill take your order over the phone or via FAX with a major credit card. I \nordered mine just last week and received it several days later. Don\'t expect \nto be able to rent a copy from your local video store. According to the license\nagreement printed on the back cover of the case, it cannot be rented.\n\n\n11) How do I draw a circle as a Bezier (or B-spline) curve?\n\nThe short answer is, "You can\'t." Unless you use a rational spline you\ncan only approximate a circle. The approximation may look acceptable,\nbut it is sensitive to scale. Magnify the scale and the error of\napproximation magnifies. Deviations from circularity that were not\nvisible in the small can become glaring in the large. If you want to\ndo the job right, consult the article:\n\n "A Menagerie of Rational B-Spline Circles"\n by Leslie Piegl and Wayne Tiller\n in IEEE Computer Graphics and Applications, volume 9, number 9,\n September, 1989, pages 48-56.\n\nFor rough, non-rational approximations, consult the book:\n\n Computational Geometry for Design and Manufacture\n by I. D. Faux and M. J. Pratt,\n Ellis Horwood Publishers, Halsted Press, John Wiley 1980.\n\nFor the best known non-rational approximations, consult the article:\n\n "Good Approximation of Circles by Curvature-continuous Bezier Curves"\n by Tor Dokken, Morten Daehlen, Tom Lyche, and Knut Morken\n in Computer Aided Geometric Design, volume 7, numbers 1-4 (combined),\n June, 1990, pages 33-41 [Elsevier Science Publishers (North-Holland)]\n\n\n12) How to order standards documents.\n\nThe American National Standards Institute sells ANSI standards, and also\nISO (international) standards. Their sales office is at 1-212-642-4900,\nmailing address is 1430 Broadway, NY NY 10018. It helps if you have the\ncomplete name and number.\n\nSome useful numbers to know:\n\nCGM (Computer Graphics Metafile) is ISO 8632-4 (1987). GKS (Graphical\nKernel System) is ANSI X3.124-1985. PHIGS (Programmer\'s Hierarchical\nInteractive Graphics System) is ANSI X3.144-1988. IGES is ASME/ANSI\nY14.26M-1987. Language bindings are often separate but related numbers;\nfor example, the GKS FORTRAN binding is X3.124.1-1985.\n\nStandards-in-progress are made available at key milestones to solicit\ncomments from the graphical public (this includes you!). ANSI can let\nyou know where to order them; most are available from Global Engineering\nat 1-800-854-7179.\n\n\n13) How to FTP by email.\n\nThere are a number of sites that archive the Usenet sources newsgroups\nand make them available via an email query system. You send a message\nto an automated server saying something like "send comp.sources.unix/fbm",\nand a few hours or days later you get the file in the mail.\n\nIn addition, there is at least one FTP-by-mail server. Send mail to\nftpmail@decwrl.dec.com saying "help" and it will tell you how to use\nit. Note that this service has at times been turned off due to abuse.\n\n\n14) How to tell whether a point is within a planar polygon.\n\nConsider a ray originating at the point of interest and continuing to\ninfinity. If it crosses an odd number of polygon edges along the way,\nthe point is within the polygon. If the ray crosses an even number of\nedges, the point is either outside the polygon, or within an interior\nhole formed from intersecting polygon edges. This idea is known in\nthe trade as the Jordan curve theorem; see Eric Haines\' article in\nGlassner\'s ray tracing book (above) for more information, including\ntreatment of special cases.\n\nAnother method is to sum the absolute angles from the point to all\nthe vertices on the polygon. If the sum is 2 pi, the point is inside,\nif the sum is 0 the point is outside. However, this method is about an\norder of magnitude slower than the previous method because evaluating the\ntrigonometric functions is usually quite costly.\n\nCode for both methods (plus barycentric triangle testing) can be found in\nthe Ray Tracing News, Vol. 5, No. 3, available from princeton.edu:\npub/Graphics/RTNews/RTNv5n3.Z.\n\n\n15) How to tessellate a sphere.\n\nOne simple way is to do recursive subdivision into triangles. The\nbase of the recursion is an octahedron, and then each level divides\neach triangle into four smaller ones. Jon Leech <leech@cs.unc.edu>\nhas posted a nice routine called sphere.c that generates the coordinates.\nIt\'s available for FTP on ftp.ee.lbl.gov and princeton.edu.\n\n16) Specific references on ray-tracing and global illumination.\n\nRick Speer maintains a cross-indexed ray-tracing bibliography:\n\nHighlights of this edition-\n\n i) more than 500 citations spanning the period from 1968 through\n November \'91;\n ii) papers from all Siggraph, Graphics Interface, Eurographics, CG\n International and Ausgraph proceedings through December, \'91;\n iii) all citations keyworded for easy lookup;\n iv) cross-indices by keyword and author;\n v) glossary of the 119 keywords used.\n\nThe bib is in the form of a PostScript file. The printout is 41 pages long.\nBelow is a list of ftp sites and the dirs that contain the file. It\'s named\n"speer.raytrace.bib.ps.Z" and is compressed at most sites-\n\n Site Dir\n\twuarchive.wustl.edu\tgraphics/graphics/bib/RT.BIB.Speer/\n\tkarazm.math.uh.edu\tpub/Graphics/\n\tgondwana.ecr.mu.oz.au\tpub/papers/\n\tnic.funet.fi\t\tpub/sci/papers/graphics\n\tcoral.cs.jcu.edu.au graphics/papers/\n\nEric Haines (erich@eye.com) maintains ray tracing and radiosity/global\nillumination bibliographies. These are in "refer" format, and so can be\nsearched electronically (a simple awk script to search for keywords is\nincluded with each). The bibliographies are available at most of the\nsites listed above, and the most current versions are maintained at\nprinceton.edu: pub/Graphics/Papers as "RayBib.*" and "RadBib.*".\n\nTom Wilson (wilson@cs.ucf.edu) has collected over 300 abstracts from ray\ntracing related research papers and books. The information is essentially\nin plaintext, and Latex and troff formatting programs are included. This\ncollection is available at most of the sites above as "rtabs.*".\n\n17) SIGGRAPH information online\n\n[from Steve Cunningham and Ralph Orlick]\n\nACM-SIGGRAPH announces its online information site at siggraph.org\n(128.248.245.250). This site now provides SIGGRAPH information via both\nanonymous ftp and an electronic mail archive server.\n\nThe anonymous ftp service is very standard, and the ftp directory includes\nboth conference and publications subdirectories.\n\nTo retrieve information by electronic mail, send mail to\n archive-server@siggraph.org\nand in the subject or the body of the message include the message send\nfollowed by the topic and subtopic you wish. A good place to start is with\nthe command\n send index\nwhich will give you an up-to-date list of available information.\n\n\n18) SIGGRAPH Panels Proceedings available\n\n[from Steve Cunningham and Bob Judd]\n\nACM SIGGRAPH announces the availability of the SIGGRAPH \'91 Panels Proceedings\nat the siggraph.org site (128.248.245.250). The proceedings are available\nin three formats:\n text (ASCII)\n rtf (rich text format, suitable for many word processors)\n word (MS Word for the Macintosh)\nThey may be retrieved from siggraph.org in two ways:\n\n(1) by anonymous ftp\n change to one of the directories\n publications/s91/panels_proceedings/[text|rtf|word]\n The text and rtf files may be downloaded in ASCII mode, while the word\n files are stored in MacBinary format and must be downloaded in binary \n mode.\n\n Each directory contains a Table of Contents file (TOC) that describes the\n contents of each panel file.\n\n(2) by electronic mail\n send mail to\n archive-server@siggraph.org\n You can retrieve either the text or rtf files. We suggest that you\n first retrieve the index files by putting one of the messages\n send panel91-txt index\n send panel91-rtf index\n in the subject or body of the message. You will get the necessary\n information to retrieve the actual transcript files.\n\n\n19) Graphics mailing lists\n\nThere are a variety of graphics-related mailing list out there, each\ncovering either a single product or a single topic. I have been an\nactive participant in one of these for some time now, and find the\nfocus and expertise which can be brought to bear on an isolated topic\nto be nothing short of amazing.\n\nPlease send me the appropriate information if you have any others you\nwould like to see added.\n\nName:\t\tImagine mailing list\nDescription:\tDiscussion forum for users of the Imagine 3D Rendering and\n\t\tAnimation package by Impulse, Inc.\nPlatforms:\tAmiga, IBM\nSubscription:\timagine-request@email.sp.paramax.com\nPosting:\timagine@email.sp.paramax.com\n\nName:\t\tDCTV mailing list\nDescription:\tDiscussion forum for users of the Digital Creations DCTV\n\t\tbox, software, and file formats\nPlatforms:\tAmiga\nSubscription:\tDCTV-request@nova.cc.purdue.edu\nPosting:\tDCTV@nova.cc.purdue.edu\n\nName:\t\tRayshade Users mailing list\nDescription:\tDiscussion forum for users of the Rayshade raytracer\nPlatforms:\tMost UNIX boxes, Amiga, Mac, IBM\nSubscription:\trayshade-request@cs.princeton.edu\nPosting:\trayshade-users@cs.princeton.edu\n\nName:\t\tLightwave 3D software for Toaster mailing list\nDescription:\tDiscussion forum for users of Lightwave, the Video\n\t\tToaster modelling and rendering package\nPlatforms:\tAmiga\nSubscription:\tlightwave-request@bobsbox.rent.com\n\t\twith "subscribe lightwave-l" in your message\nPosting:\tlightwave@bobsbox.rent.com\n\nName:\t\tPOV mailing list\nDescription:\tDiscussion forum for DKBTrace and POV renderers\nPlatforms:\tUnix\nSubscription:\tlistserv@trearn.bitnet\nPosting:\tdkb-l@trearn.bitnet\n\nName:\t\tMailing List For Massive Parallel Rendering\nDescription:\tsame?\nPlatforms:\tUnix\nSubscription:\tmp-render-request@icase.edu\nPosting:\tmp-render@icase.edu\n\n20) Specific references on file formats\n\n Graphics File Formats, David Kay and John Levine, Windcrest/McGraw-Hill\n 1992, ISBN 0-8306-3059-7 paper, ISBN 0-8306-3060-0 $36.95 hardcover,\n ISBN 0-8306-3059-7 $24.95 paper. Comments - 26 formats, no software\n (this is good, IMHO - I prefer books which are non-platform-dependent).\n Questions about this book may be sent to gbook@iecc.cambridge.ma.us.\n\n\n21) What about GIF?\n\nGIF stands for Graphics Interchange Format. It is portable and usable upon\na wide variety of platforms. It is quite limited in some ways (yes, the\nkeeper of the FAQ has some opinions after all), and in fact, I don\'t like\nit much. However, it looks to me like the most-Frequently Asked Question\nwhich was not previously covered in this list. The following is a list\nof newsgroups and the like where one could go to find out about GIF.\n\nSubject: alt.binaries.pictures FAQ - General info\nSubject: alt.binaries.pictures FAQ - OS specific info\nNewsgroups: alt.binaries.pictures.d,alt.binaries.pictures.misc,\n\talt.binaries.pictures.utilities,alt.binaries.pictures.fractals,\n\talt.binaries.pictures.fine-art.d,news.answers\n\nAvailable in the indicated USENET newsgroup(s), or via anonymous ftp from\npit-manager.mit.edu in the files:\n\n/pub/usenet/news.answers/pictures-faq/part1\n/pub/usenet/news.answers/pictures-faq/part2\n\nAlso available from mail-server@pit-manager.mit.edu by sending a mail\nmessage containing any or all of:\n\nsend usenet/news.answers/pictures-faq/part1\nsend usenet/news.answers/pictures-faq/part2\n\nSend a message containing "help" to get general information about the\nmail server.\n\nAlso, you could check out the resources described in sections 7, 8, and\n20 above for more information.\n\n\n22) What is morphing?\n\nWarping is the deformation of an image by mapping each pixel to a new\nlocation. Morphing is blending from one image or object to another one.\nValerie Hall has written an excellent introduction to warping and\nmorphing. This is available for anonymous ftp from marsh.cs.curtin.edu.au\nin the directory pub/graphics/bibliography/Morph. There are three files:\n\n morph_intro.ps.Z (PostScript version, many pictures - 1.5M)\n morph_intro.txt.Z (text version)\n m_responses.Z (Responses to morphing questions)\n\nThe files are compressed, so you must use binary transfer and\nuncompress them afterwards.\n\n\n23) How to ray-trace height fields\n\nHeight fields are a special case in ray-tracing. They have a number of uses,\nsuch as terrain rendering, and some optimization is possible. Thus, they\nget their own FAQ section. Note that further references can no doubt be\nlocated via the ray-tracing bibs in section 16 above.\n\nThe following paper seems to be the definitive reference:\n\nF. Kenton Musgrave\nGrid Tracing: Fast Ray Tracing For Height Fields\nJuly, 1988\n<musg88.ps.Z>\n\nThis is available as "Research Report YALEU/DCS/RR-639" from Yale University,\nit\'s also in the SIGGRAPH \'91 Fractal Modeling in 3D Computer Graphics and\nImaging course notes, and (best of all) it\'s available on the net:\n\n nic.funet.fi\t\tpub/sci/papers/musg88.ps.Z\n weedeater.math.yale.edu\tpub/Papers/musg88.ms.Z\n princeton.edu\t\tpub/Graphics/Papers/musg88.ms.Z\n coral.cs.jcu.edu.au\t\tgraphics/papers/musg88.ps.Z\n gondwana.ecr.mu.OZ.AU\tpub/papers/musg88.ms.Z and musg88.ps.Z\n\nAn implementation of this paper may be found in Rayshade.\n\nAnother paper exists:\n\n%A David W. Paglieroni\n%A Sidney M. Petersen\n%T Parametric Height Field Ray Tracing\n%J Proceedings of Graphics Interface \'92\n%I Canadian Information Processing Society\n%C Toronto, Ontario\n%D May 1992\n%P 192-200\n\nAnd still one more:\n\nMusgrave, Kolb, and Mace\n"The Synthesis and Rendering of Eroded Fractal Terrains",\nComputer Graphics Vol 23, No. 3 (SIGGRAPH \'89 procedings) p. 41-50\n\n\n\n24) How to find the area of a 3D polygon\n\n\tThe area of a triangle is given by (in C notation),\n\n area = 0.5 * ( ( x[0] * y[1] ) + ( x[1] * y[2] ) + ( x[2] * y[0] ) -\n\t ( x[1] * y[0] ) - ( x[2] * y[1] ) - ( x[0] * y[2] ) );\n\nand the area of a planar polygon is given by\n\n area = 0.0;\n\n for ( i = 0; i < n - 1; i++ )\n area += ( x[i] * y[i + 1] ) - ( x[i + 1] * y[i] );\n area += ( x[n - 1] * y[0] ) - ( x[0] * y[n - 1] );\n area /= 2.0;\n\nIf the area is a negative number, the polygon or triangle is\nclockwise, if positive, it is counterclockwise.\n\n>From Ronald Golman\'s Gem (in Graphics Gems II - see section 1 above), "Area\n of Planar Polygons and Volume of Polyhedra:"\n\nThe area of a polygon P0, P1, P2, ... Pn, not in the x-y plane, is\ngiven by\n\n Area(Polygon) = 1/2 * | N . Sigma { Pk x Pk+1 } |\n\nwhere N is the unit vector normal to the plane and P is a polygonal\nvertex. The . represents the dot product operator and the x\nrepresents the cross product operator. Sigma represents the summation\noperator. | | represents the absolute value operator. Pn+1 is equal\nto P0.\n\n\n25) How to join ACM/SIGGRAPH\n\nProbably the easiest way to join ACM/SIGGRAPH is to trot over to your\nlocal technical library and find a copy of Communications of the ACM.\nSomewhere within the first few pages will be an application blank.\nFill it out and mail it in. ACM membership for students costs $23.00,\nVoting or Associate Membership $77.00 (yearly)\n\nSIGGRAPH student membership costs an additional $16.00, $26.00 for\nVoting or Associate Members (also yearly). To get TOG (Transactions\non Graphics) it\'s another $26.00 for students and $31.00 for Voting or\nAssociate Members.\n\nIf you just want to join SIGGRAPH without joining ACM, it\'ll cost you\n$59.00 (no student discount).\n\nThere are surcharges for overseas airmailing of publications.\n\nACM Member services may be contacted via email at acmhelp@acmvm.bitnet. \nTheir phone number is (212) 626-0500. FAX number (212) 944-1318.\nSnailmail address:\n\n ACM\n PO Box 12114\n Church Street Station\n New York, New York 10257\n\nSIGGRAPH `93 will be held in Anaheim, California, at the Anaheim\nConvention Center (just up the street from Disneyland) on August 1-6, 1993.\n\n26) Where can I find MRI and CT scan volume data?\n\nVolume data sets are available from the University of North Carolina at\nomicron.cs.unc.edu (152.2.128.159) in /pub/softlab/CHVRTD. (Commerical\nuse is prohibited.)\n\nHead data - A 109-slice MRI data set of a human head.\n\nKnee data - A 127-slice MRI data set of a human knee.\n\nHIPIP data - The result of a quantum mechanical calculation of a SOD data\nof a one-electron orbital of HIPIP, an iron protein.\n\nSOD data - An electron density map of the active site of SOD (superoxide\ndismutase). \n\nCT Cadaver Head data - A 113-slice MRI data set of a CT study of a cadaver\nhead. \n\nMR Brain data - A 109-slice MRI data set of a head with skull partially\nremoved to reveal brain.\n\nRNA data - An electron density map for Staphylococcus Aureus Ribonuclease.\n\n\n27) Specific references on spatial data structures including quadtrees\n\tand octrees\n\nH. Samet,\nThe Design and Analysis of Spatial Data Structures,\nAddison-Wesley, Reading, MA, 1990.\nISBN 0-201-50255-0.\n\nH. Samet,\nApplications of Spatial Data Structures: Computer Graphics, Image Processing, a\nnd GIS,\nAddison-Wesley, Reading, MA, 1990.\nISBN 0-201-50300-0.\n\n\n28) Where can I get a program to plot XY(Z) data or f(x) data?\n\nGnuplot is a command-driven interactive data/function plotting program. It\nruns on just about any machine, and is very flexible in terms of supported\noutput devices. The official North American distribution site for the latest\nversion is dartmouth.edu in /pub/gnuplot. More information is available from\nthe USENET newsgroup comp.graphics.gnuplot and its FAQ, graphics/gnuplot-faq.\n\nACE/gr (xmgr - Motif/xvgr - XView) is a data/function plotting tool for \nworkstations or X-terminals using X. Available from ftp.ccalmr.ogi.edu\nin /CCALMR/pub/acegr.\n\nrobotx (Robot) is a general purpose plotting and data analysis program.\nRequires XView, X-terminal or workstation. Available from sunsite.unc.edu\nin /pub/academic/data_analysis.\n\nXgraph is a popular two-dimensional plotting program that accepts data in a\nform similar to the unix program graph and displays line graphs, scatter plots,\nor bar charts on an X11 display. Available from ic.berkeley.edu in /pub.\n\nDrawplot is a program for drawing 2D plots on X10/X11 windows, SUNVIEW\ndisplays, or HP2648 terminals. Available from xcf.berkeley.edu in /src/local.\n\n29) Specific references on PEX and PHIGS\n\n PEXlib Programming Manual, Tom Gaskins, 1154 pages, O\'Reilly & Associates,\n\tISBN 1-56592-028-7\n\n PEXlib Reference Manual, edited by Steve Talbott, 577 pages, O\'Reilly &\n\tAssociates, ISBN 1-56592-029-5\n\n PHIGS Programming Manual, Tom Gaskins, 908 pages, O\'Reilly & Associates,\n\tISBN 0-93775-85-4 (softcover), ISBN 0-937175-92-7 (casebound)\n\n PHIGS Reference Manual, edited by Linda Kosko, 1099 pages, O\'Reilly &\n\tAssociates, ISBN 0-937175-91-9\n\n\n30) SIGGRAPH Online Bibliography Project\n\nThe ACM SIGGRAPH Online Bibliography Project is a database of over 15,000\nunique computer graphics and computational geometry references in BibTeX\nformat, available to the computer graphics community as a research and\neducational resource.\n\nThe database is located at "siggraph.org". Users may download the BibTeX\nfiles via FTP and peruse them offline, or telnet to "siggraph.org" and log\nin as "biblio" and interactively search the database for entries of interest,\nby keyword.\n\nAdditions/corrections/suggestions may be directed to the admin,\n"bibadmin@siggraph.org".\n-- \nJohn T. Grieggs (Telos @ Jet Propulsion Laboratory)\n4800 Oak Grove Drive, Pasadena, Ca. 91109 M/S 525-3660 (818) 306-6506\nUucp: {cit-vax,elroy,chas2}!jpl-devvax!grieggs\nArpa: ...jpl-devvax!grieggs@cit-vax.ARPA\n',
"From: wlieftin@cs.vu.nl (Liefting W)\nSubject: Re: PoV Ray Related Group NEEDED\nOrganization: Fac. Wiskunde & Informatica, VU, Amsterdam\nLines: 20\n\nhed@cats.ucsc.edu (Magic Fingers) writes:\n\n\n>In article <1993May13.011926.4728@exucom.com> cyberman@exucom.com (Stephen R. Phillips) writes:\n\n>If it takes making it an alt group, then why not? I've been following\n>this thread for, what has it been, two months now?\n\nThe alt.* hierarchie is created for 2 purposes:\n1. For groups which do not fit under the comp.* or other 'official'\n hierarchies\n2. For the fast creation of hot new newsgroups like alt.gulf.war\n\nBecause there is no voting process or any other control facilities,\nsites are free to decide not to carry (some of) the alt groups.\n\nTherefore, it is (I think) desirable to try to create comp.graphics.\n{raytrace, rendering or whatever} and not an alt-group\n\nWouter\n",
'From: kmr4@po.CWRU.edu (Keith M. Ryan)\nSubject: Re: free moral agency\nOrganization: Case Western Reserve University\nLines: 29\nDistribution: na\nNNTP-Posting-Host: b64635.student.cwru.edu\n\nIn article <C5v2Mr.1z1@darkside.osrhe.uoknor.edu> bil@okcforum.osrhe.edu (Bill Conner) writes:\n>The myth to which I refer is the convoluted counterfeit athiests have\n>created to make religion appear absurd. Rather than approach religion\n>(including Christainity) in a rational manner and debating its claims\n>-as the are stated-, atheists concoct outrageous parodies and then\n>hold the religious accountable for beliefs they don\'t have. What is\n>more accurately oxymoric is the a term like, reasonable atheist.\n\n\t1) They are religious parodies, NOT atheistic paradies.\n\n\t2) Please substantiate that they are parodies, and are outrageous.\n\t Specifically, why is the IUP any more outrageous than many \n\t religions?\n\n---\n\nPrivate note to Jennifer Fakult.\n\n "This post may contain one or more of the following:\n sarcasm, cycnicism, irony, or humor. Please be aware \n of this possibility and do not allow yourself to be \n confused and/or thrown for a loop. If in doubt, assume\n all of the above.\n \n The owners of this account do not take any responsiblity\n for your own confusion which may result from your inability\n to recognize any of the above. Read at your own risk, Jennifer."\n\n\n',
"From: db7n+@andrew.cmu.edu (D. Andrew Byler)\nSubject: Re: The doctrine of Original Sin\nOrganization: Freshman, Civil Engineering, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA\nLines: 16\n\nEugen Bigelow writes:\n\n>It is also noteworthy to consider Jesus' attitude. He had no\n>argument with the pharisees over any of the OT canon (John\n>10.31-6), and explained to his followers on the road to Emmaus \n>that in the law, prophets and psalms which referred to him - the \n>OT division of Scripture (Luke 24.44), as well as in Luke 11.51\n>taking Genesis to Chronicles (the jewish order - we would say\n>Genesis to Malachi) as Scripture.\n\nYou should remember that in Adam's transgression, all men and women\nsinned, as Paul wrote. All of humanity cooperativley reblled against\nGod in Adma's sin, thus, all are subject to it, and the sin is\ntransmitted from generation to generation.\n\nAndy Byler\n",
'From: livesey@solntze.wpd.sgi.com (Jon Livesey)\nSubject: Re: free moral agency\nOrganization: sgi\nLines: 19\nDistribution: world\nNNTP-Posting-Host: solntze.wpd.sgi.com\n\nIn article <16BB9DBA8.I3150101@dbstu1.rz.tu-bs.de>, I3150101@dbstu1.rz.tu-bs.de (Benedikt Rosenau) writes:\n|> In article <1r79j3$ak2@fido.asd.sgi.com>\n|> livesey@solntze.wpd.sgi.com (Jon Livesey) writes:\n|> \n|> (Deletion)\n|> >So, Mr Conner. Is Bobby Mozumder a myth, a performing artist,\n|> >a real Moslem. a crackpot, a provocateur? You know everything\n|> >and read all minds: why don\'t you tell us?\n|> >\n|> \n|> As a side note: isn\'t it telling that one cannot say for sure if\n|> Bobby Mozunder is a firm believer or a provocateur? What does\n|> that say about religious beliefs?\n\nI think that\'s an insightful comment. Especially when at the\nsame time we have people like Bill "Projector" Conner complaining\nthat we are posting parodies.\n\njon.\n',
"From: fishkin@parc.xerox.com (Ken Fishkin)\nSubject: Re: Oh make up your mind!! (was: Re: XV problems)\nOrganization: Xerox PARC\nLines: 20\n\nIn article <1993Apr30.182605.5999@nessie.mcc.ac.uk>, lilley@v5.cgu.mcc.ac.uk (Chris Lilley) writes:\n [re a true 24 bit XV]\n\n> If you would come up with a solid, logical, well argued and lucid description of\n> precisely how these proposed extensions would work, feel free to post them\n\nDon't mind if I do.\nAs someone who would _love_ to see XV go to 24 bit, this\nwould be plenty for me.\n\n a) XV can Load a 24 bit image, and display it in all it's\n24 bit glory on 24 bit X displays.\n b) All other operations (Crop, Dither, Smooth, etc.) are not\nsupported on 24 bit images.\n\nhow hard would this be?\n\n\n-- \nKen Fishkin\tfishkin@xerox.com\n",
'From: eggertj@moses.ll.mit.edu (Jim Eggert x6127 g41)\nSubject: Re: Robin Lane Fox\'s _The Unauthorized Version_?\nReply-To: eggertj@ll.mit.edu\nOrganization: MIT Lincoln Lab - Group 41\nLines: 19\n\nIn article <May.7.01.09.39.1993.14550@athos.rutgers.edu> iscleekk@nuscc.nus.sg (LEE KOK KIONG JAMES) writes:\n| mpaul@unl.edu (marxhausen paul) writes:\n| > My mom passed along a lengthy review she clipped regarding Robin Lane\n| > Fox\'s book _The Unauthorized Version: Truth and Fiction in the Bible_,\n|...\n| I\'ve read the book. Some parts were quite typical regarding its\n| criticism of the bible as an inaccurate historical document,\n| alt.altheism, etc carries typical responses, but not as vociferous as\n| a.a. It does give an insight into how these historian (is he one... I \n| don\'t have any biodata on him) work. I\'ve not been able to understand/\n| appreciate some of the arguments, something like, it mentions certain \n| events, so it has to be after that event, and so on. \n\nRobin Lane Fox is a historian and a gardener. He has written several\nhistory books, perhaps a recent one you might remember is "The Search\nfor Alexander". He has also written or edited several books on\ngardening.\n--\n=Jim eggertj@ll.mit.edu (Jim Eggert)\n',
'From: hoss@panix.com (Felix the Cat)\nSubject: med school admission continued.\nOrganization: PANIX Public Access Unix, NYC\nX-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]\nLines: 42\n\n\nhi all, i got several emails and a couple news replies and i guess i\nshoulda went into more detail... Being my anxiety level is peaking and you\nfolks have no clue who I am I may as well post the specifics and see what\nyou people think regarding my previous post.\nTo recap i applied to 20 schools total, 16 of which were MD and 4 DO.\n\nas it stands now i have had 13 rejects, 4 interviews( 2 MD and 2 DO), the\nresults of which are 2 waiting lists (1 MD and one DO)\n\n3 schools i heard nothing from at all.\n\nI have contacted all institutions other than the rejects and they have no\ninfo whatsoever to tell me.\n\nI have taken a good mix to apply to.. 2-3 top schools a bunch of middles\nand a few "safety" (funny that most of my safety schools were the first\nto reject me)\n\nmy index is at like a 3.5 mcats were R7 P9 B10 WQ and R7 P9 B11 WR\nI couldnt get the damn reading score up... i never stuff like art\nhistory, politics etc \n\nIve done medical research at the undergrad level, done clinical lab work\nfor years now, but unfortunately i have no patient contact experience.\n\nI cant think of what else i left out... but thats the summary. What\npercent of people are usually called from the waiting lists on an average?\nI felt that my interviews went quite well yet i dont have a firm\nacceptance in my hand... anyone have any suggestions as to calm the\nmailbox anxiety? \n\nIf you premeds out there or med students have any questions or comments\nfor me feel free to send them down... Typing is a form of anti-anxiety\nthereapy hehehehe :)\n\n\n-- \n /\\ _ /\\ | Felix The Cat\n | 0 0 |-------\\== The Wonderful, Wonderful Cat! \n \\==@==/\\ ____\\ | ===============================\n Meow!--- \\_-_/ || || hoss@panix.com\n',
'From: GMILLS@CHEMICAL.watstar.uwaterloo.ca (Phil Trodwell)\nSubject: Re: Amusing atheists and agnostics\nLines: 25\nOrganization: University of Waterloo\n\nIn article <timmbake.735175045@mcl> timmbake@mcl.ucsb.edu (Bake Timmons) writes:\n>From: timmbake@mcl.ucsb.edu (Bake Timmons)\n>Subject: Amusing atheists and agnostics\n>Date: 18 Apr 93 23:17:25 GMT\n\n[some big deletions]\n>\n>Many atheists show a poor understanding of human nature, so many \n ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ \n>people who would otherwise sympathize with their cause only shake their \n>heads in disbelief at such childish ranting.\n\nAnother in a string of idiotic generalizations. Gad, I\'m surprised I got \nthis far down in the post. I guess some just like seeing their names up on \na CRT. \n\nLike me :-)\n\n\n\nPhil Trodwell \n\n*** This space ***| "I\'d be happy to ram a goddam 440-volt cattle\n*** for rent. ***| prod into that tub with you right now, but not\n*** (cheap) ***| this radio!" -Hunter S. Thompson\n',
'From: bobm@Ingres.COM (Bob McQueer)\nSubject: Re: Earwax\nLines: 34\n\nIn <faUk03m6d0Kq00@amdahl.uts.amdahl.com>,\n\tdated 29 Apr 93 15:43:10 GMT,\n\tlmtra@uts.amdahl.com (Leon Traister) writes:\n> stephen@mont.cs.missouri.edu (Stephen Montgomery-Smith) writes:\n> \n> >What is the healthiest way to deal with earwax? Should one just leave\n> >it in your ear and not mess with it, or should you clean it out\n> >every so often? Can cleaning it out damage your eardrums?\n> >Are there any tubes in your ear that might get blocked?\n> \n> Assuming that the wax is causing hearing loss, congestion or popping\n> in the ears, you can try some cautious tepid water irrigation with a\n> bulb syringe, but it is awkward to do for oneself and may not work or\n> may even make things worse. (My wife would disagree, she does it\n> successfully every six months or so.) In any case DO NOT ATTEMPT\n> ANYTHING WITH Q-TIPS!!!\n\nI\'ll agree with your wife. While I was a student, I had doctors remove\nrather surprising amounts of wax from my ears by flushing them out a couple\ntimes, usually because they were examining my ears for some other reason, and\nsaid something like "Gee, you\'ve got a lot of wax in there". In my case,\nremoval of these large wax buildups did noticeably improve my hearing, and\nI\'ve since gotten in the same habit as your wife of flushing them out with\nwarm water from a little rubber bulb every few months. You can buy little\nbulbs together with ear drops for this express purpose from the drug store -\nI don\'t notice that the drops accomplish much of anything.\n\nOne question I do have - a doctor who flushed out my ears once also advocated\na drop of rubbing alcohol in them afterwards to flush out any remaining\ntrapped water - said he told swimmers to do this after swimming, too. It\nworks, but it stings like the devil, so I\'ve always been content to let any\nwater in my ears from swimming or flushing them out figure out how to get\nout by itself if shaking my head a few times won\'t do the trick. Any\ncomments?\n',
"From: powlesla@acs.ucalgary.ca (Jim Powlesland)\nSubject: Re: PICT, EPSF, etc map of Italy\nNntp-Posting-Host: acs6.acs.ucalgary.ca\nOrganization: The University of Calgary, Alberta\nLines: 16\n\nIn article <93132.025641CHUNTER@UMAB.BITNET> <CHUNTER@UMAB.BITNET> writes:\n>Does anybody know where I can get a graphic (Mac PICT, EPSF, TIFF, GIF,\n>whatever) of Italy? I'm looking for a picture of a map of Italy (even just the\n\nA map of Italy showing the states/provinces(?) is in the FreeHand\n3.1 for Windows clip art collection. Corel Draw 3.0 clip art has\nan outline map of Italy.\n\n\n\n\n-- \n/ Jim Powlesland / INTERNET: powlesla@acs.ucalgary.ca\n/ Academic Computing Services / VOICE: (403)220-7937\n/ University of Calgary / MESSAGE: (403)220-6201\n/ Calgary, Alberta CANADA T2N 1N4 / FAX: (403)282-9199\n",
"From: badboy@netcom.com (Jay Keller)\nSubject: Re: Can men get yeast infections?\nOrganization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)\nDistribution: na\nLines: 12\n\n>>>Can men get yeast infections? Spread them? What kind of symptoms?\n\nMy ENT doctor told me that it is not uncommon for the wife to get a vaginal\nyeast infection after the husband takes antibiotics. In fact this recently\nhappened to my wife. Explanation is that the antibiotics kill the yeast's\ncompetition, they then thrive and increased yeast around the penis spread\nthe infection during intercourse. I was on ceclor for 30 days, then my wife\ngot the yeast.\n\nJay Keller\nbadboy@netcom.com\n\n",
'From: Daniel.Prince@f129.n102.z1.calcom.socal.com (Daniel Prince)\nSubject: Re: Placebo effects\nLines: 12\n\n To: turpin@cs.utexas.edu (Russell Turpin)\n\n RT> o Those administering the treatment do not know which subjects \n RT> receive a placebo or the test treatment.\n\nIt seems to me that many drugs have such severe side effects that \nit might not be possible to keep the doctors from knowing who is \ngetting the true drug. This is especially true of the drugs used \nfor "mental" illnesses.\n\n... My cat is very smart. He has ME well trained.\n * Origin: ONE WORLD Los Angeles 310/372-0987 32b (1:102/129.0)\n',
'From: westes@netcom.com (Will Estes)\nSubject: Use of haldol in elderly\nOrganization: Mail Group\nX-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]\nLines: 14\n\nDoes anyone know of research done on the use of haldol in the elderly? Does \nshort-term use of the drug ever produce long-term side-effects after\nthe use of the drug? My grandmother recently had to be hospitalized\nand was given large doses of haldol for several weeks. Although the\ndrug has been terminated, she has changed from a perky, slightly\nsenile woman into a virtual vegetable who does not talk to anyone\nand who cannot even eat or brush her teeth without assistance. It\nseems incredible to me that such changes could take place in the\ncourse of just one and one-half months. I have to believe that the\ncombination of the hospital stay and some drug(s) are in part\ncatalysts for this. Any comments?\n\n-- \nWill Estes\t\tInternet: westes@netcom.com\n',
'Organization: Queen\'s University at Kingston\nFrom: <JIANGY@QUCDN.QueensU.CA>\nSubject: Please Help: Point in concave Polyhedra\nLines: 43\n\nDear Netters:\n\n\nI am looking for C source code to test if a 3D point lies within a\n\nconcave polyhadra. I have read a few articles about this and know\n\nthat two solutions exist: parity counting and angle sumation. Both\n\n\nideas are pretty simple but coding is not. So I wonder if there exists\n\npublic domain source code for this.\n\n Another \'rough\' solition (don\'t care special cases) is ray-casting\n\nwhich is reported to be more or less independent of number of faces\n\nconsisting the polyhedra if a special space indexing is used\n(M. Tamminen, et. al., 1984. "Ray-casting and block model conversion\nusing a spatial index". Computer-Aided-Designs. 4, 1984, 60-65).\nBut the prerequirement is that all the facets of polyhedra have their\nnormal pointing outside of polyhedra. How this could be done in practice ?\nI have a set of trangles consisting the polyhedra. How could I ensure their\nnormals pointing outside the polyhedra ? The paper mentioned above assumed\nthis is already the case.\n\n\n I have also read some standard computer graphics textbook about hidden\nline removal. It says "if we make the rule that the normal of a facet pointing\n\ntoward viewer standing far away from the polyhedra...". Again how to make\nsure ?\n\n\n Any pointers are welcome ?\n\n\n Yaohong Jiang\n Queen\'s University\n Kingston, Ont.\n\n Jiangy@qucdn.queensu.ca\n',
'From: kmr4@po.CWRU.edu (Keith M. Ryan)\nSubject: Re: FREE-ENERGY TECHNOLOGY\nOrganization: Case Western Reserve University\nLines: 25\nNNTP-Posting-Host: b64635.student.cwru.edu\n\nIn article <1993Apr22.195256.6376@cnsvax.uwec.edu> mcelwre@cnsvax.uwec.edu writes:\n> Free Energy Inventions are devices which can tap a \n> seemingly UNLIMITED supply of energy from the universe, with-\n> OUT burning any kind of fuel, making them the PERFECT \n> SOLUTION to the world-wide energy crisis and its associated \n> pollution, degradation, and depletion of the environment. \n\n\tGive me a call when you build a working model. \n\n\tThen we\'ll talk stock options.\n---\n\nPrivate note to Jennifer Fakult.\n\n "This post may contain one or more of the following:\n sarcasm, cycnicism, irony, or humor. Please be aware \n of this possibility and do not allow yourself to be \n confused and/or thrown for a loop. If in doubt, assume\n all of the above.\n \n The owners of this account do not take any responsiblity\n for your own confusion which may result from your inability\n to recognize any of the above. Read at your own risk, Jennifer."\n\n\n',
'From: edm@twisto.compaq.com (Ed McCreary)\nSubject: Re: Studies on Book of Mormon\nIn-Reply-To: cfairman@leland.Stanford.EDU\'s message of Tue, 20 Apr 93 21: 12:55 GMT\nOrganization: Compaq Computer Corp\nLines: 27\n\n>>>>> On Tue, 20 Apr 93 21:12:55 GMT, cfairman@leland.Stanford.EDU (Carolyn Jean Fairman) said:\nCJF> agrino@enkidu.mic.cl (Andres Grino Brandt) asks about Mormons.\n\nCJF> Although I don\'t personally know about independent sudies, I do know\nCJF> a few things.\nCJF> He writes:\n\n>There are some mention about events, places, or historical persons\n>later discovered by archeologist?\n\nCJF> One of the more amusing things in the BOM is a claim that a\nCJF> civilization existed in North America, aroun where the mystical plates\nCJF> were found. Not only did it use steel and other metals, but it had\nCJF> lots of wars (very OT). No one has ever found any metal swords or\nCJF> and traces of a civilization other than the Native Americans.\n\nI was talking to the head of the archeology dept. once in college and\nthe topic of Mormon archeology came up. It seems that the Mormon church\nis (or was) big on giving grants to archeologists to prove that the\nnative Americans are really the lost tribe of Israel and other such\nbunk. The archeologists would shake their head knowingly while listening\nto them, take the grant, and go off to do real archeology anyway.\n\n--\nEd McCreary ,__o\nedm@twisto.compaq.com _-\\_<, \n"If it were not for laughter, there would be no Tao." (*)/\'(*)\n',
'From: walter@uni-koblenz.de (Walter Hower)\nSubject: Re: PARAMETRIC/VARIATIONAL DESIGN\nOrganization: University of Koblenz, Germany\nLines: 149\nNNTP-Posting-Host: wolf.uni-koblenz.de\nIn-reply-to: patel@enuxha.eas.asu.edu\'s message of Wed, 28 Apr 1993 18:15:40 GMT\n\nHere now some initial references; best regards - Walter.\n@InProceedings{Keirouz:et:al:90,\n author = \t"Walid Keirouz and Jahir Pabon and Robert Young",\n title = \t"{Integrating parametric geometry, features, and\n\t\t variational modeling for conceptual design}",\n booktitle = \t"International Conference on Design Theory and Methodology",\n year = \t"1990",\n editor = \t"{J.\\ R.}\\ Rinderle",\n pages = \t"1--9",\n organization = \t"American Society of Mechanical Engineers (ASME)",\n OPTpublisher = \t"",\n OPTaddress = \t"",\n OPTmonth = \t"",\n note = \t"Proceedings"\n}\n\n\n@InProceedings{Yamaguchi:Kimura:90,\n author = \t"Yasushi Yamaguchi and Fumihiko Kimura",\n title = \t"{A constraint modeling system for variational geometry}",\n booktitle = \t"{Geometric modeling for product engineering}",\n year = \t"1990",\n editor = \t"{Michael J.}\\ Wozny and {J.\\ U.}\\ Turner and {K.}\\ Preiss",\n pages = \t"221--233",\n organization = \t"IFIP",\n publisher = \t"Elsevier Science Publishers B.V.\\ (North-Holland),\n\t\t Amsterdam, The Netherlands",\n OPTaddress = \t"",\n OPTmonth = \t"",\n note = \t"Selected and Expanded Papers form the IFIP WG 5.2/NSF\n\t\t Working Conference on Geometric Modeling, Rensselaerville, NY, U.S.A.,\n\t\t 18--22 September 1988"\n}\n\n@InProceedings{Chung:et:al:88,\n author = \t"{Jack C.\\ H.}\\ Chung and {Joseph W.}\\ Klahs\n\t\t and {Robert L.}\\ Cook and Thijs Sluiter",\n title = \t"{Implementation issues in variational geometry and\n\t\t constraint management}",\n booktitle = \t"Third International Conference on\n CAD/CAM, Robotics and Factories of the Future (CARS and FOF\'88)",\n year = \t"1988",\n OPTeditor = \t"",\n OPTpages = \t"",\n OPTorganization = \t"",\n OPTpublisher = \t"",\n address = \t"Detroit, Michigan, USA",\n month = \t" August 14--17,",\n note = \t"Proceedings, probably: Springer-Verlag,\n\t\t Berlin/Heidelberg, 1989"\n}\n\n@Article{Kimura:et:al:86,\n author = \t"Fumihiko Kimura and Hiromasa Suzuki and Toshio Sata",\n title = \t"{Variational Product Design by Constraint Propagation\n\t\t and Satisfaction in Product Modelling}",\n journal = \t"Annals of the CIRP",\n year = \t"1986",\n volume = \t"35",\n number = \t"1",\n pages = \t"75--78",\n OPTmonth = \t"",\n note = \t"(probably) International Institution for Production Engineering Research"\n}\n\n@Article{Kimura:et:al:87,\n author = \t"{F.}\\ Kimura and {H.}\\ Suzuki and {H.}\\ Ando and {T.}\\ Sato and\n\t\t {A.}\\ Kinosada",\n title = \t"{Variational Geometry Based on Logical Constraints\n\t\t and its Applications to Product Modelling}",\n journal = \t"Annals of the CIRP",\n year = \t"1987",\n volume = \t"36",\n number = \t"1",\n pages = \t"65--68",\n\n@InProceedings{Chung:Schussel:89,\n author = \t"{Jack C.H.}\\ Chung and {Martin D.}\\ Schussel",\n title = \t"{Comparison of Variational and Parametric Design}",\n booktitle = \t"Autofact \'89",\n year = \t"1989",\n OPTeditor = \t"",\n pages = \t"5-27 -- 5-44",\n OPTorganization = \t"",\n OPTpublisher = \t"",\n address = \t"Detroit, Michigan, USA",\n month = \t"October 30 -- November 2,",\n note = \t"Conference Proceedings"\n}\n\n\n@Article{Pabon:et:al:92,\n author = \t"Jahir Pabon and Robert Young and Walid Keirouz",\n title = \t"{Integrating Parametric Geometry, Features, and\n\t\t Variational Modeling for Conceptual Design}",\n journal = \t"International Journal of Systems Automation: Research\n\t\t and Applications (SARA)",\n year = \t"1992",\n volume = \t"2",\n OPTnumber = \t"",\n pages = \t"17--36",\n OPTmonth = \t"",\n OPTnote = \t""\n}\n\n@Article{Kondo:90,\n author = \t"Koichi Kondo",\n title = \t"{PIGMOD: parametric and interactive geometric\n\t\t modeller for mechanical design}",\n journal = \t"CAD, computer-aided design",\n year = \t"1990",\n volume = \t"22",\n number = \t"10",\n pages = \t"633--644",\n month = \t"december",\n note = \t"Butterworth-Heinemann Ltd"\n}\n\n\n@InProceedings{Zalik:et:al:92a,\n author = \t"Borut {\\v{Z}}alik and Nikola Guid and Aleksander Vesel",\n title = \t"{Parametric Design Using Constraint Description Graph}", \n booktitle = \t"CAD \'92, Neue Konzepte zur Realisierung\n\t\t anwendungsorientierter CAD-Systeme",\n year = \t"1992",\n editor = \t"{Frank-Lothar} Krause and Detlev Ruland and Helmut Jansen",\n pages = \t"329--344",\n OPTorganization = \t"",\n publisher = \t"Informatik aktuell, Springer-Verlag, Berlin/Heidelberg",\n OPTaddress = \t"",\n month = \t"14./15.\\ Mai",\n note = \t"GI-Fachtagung, Berlin"\n}\n\n\n@InProceedings{Murtagh:Shimura:90,\n author = \t"Niall Murtagh and Masamichi Shimura",\n title = \t"{Parametric Engineering Design Using Constraint-Based Reasoning}",\n booktitle = \t"AAAI-90, Eighth National Conference on Artificial Intelligence",\n year = \t"1990",\n OPTeditor = \t"",\n pages = \t"505--510",\n organization = \t"American Association for Artificial Intelligence",\n publisher = \t"Proceedings, Volume One, AAAI Press, Menlo Park, CA, U.S.A.",\n address = \t"Boston, MA",\n month = \t"July 29 -- August 3,",\n OPTnote = \t""\n}\n\n',
'From: jhilmer@ruc.dk (Jakob Hilmer)\nSubject: NEED VALUES FOR AORTA!\nOrganization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway\nLines: 28\nReply-To: gr8-71@mmf.ruc.dk\nNNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu\n\n\nWe need following data for human aorta:\n\n Tear and shear stress for aorta.\n A plot of the aortic cross-sectional area. \n Stroke-volume at the aortic root.\n Approximate distribution of blood through the major arterial\n branches of the aorta.\n Flow velocity of blood in aorta.\n \nWe have various values for flow velocity, If you have any data remember to\ngive us the references too include in our report\n\n--\nStud. Jakob Hilmer\t\tFax: (+45) 45 93 34 34\nHus 7.1 Gr. 8a\t\t\t\nRoskilde University, Denmark\nPostbox 260\nDK-4000 Roskilde\n\n\n\n\n\n\n \n \n\n',
'From: hudson@athena.cs.uga.edu (Paul Hudson Jr)\nSubject: Re: homosexual issues in Christianity\nOrganization: University of Georgia, Athens\nLines: 24\n\n>[There\'s some ambiguity about the meaning of the words in the passage\n>you quote. Both liberal and conservative sources seem to agree that\n>"homosexual" is not the general term for homosexuals, but is likely to\n>have a meaning like homosexual prostitute. \n\nFrom what I understand of my experience in looking up this word, and \ndiscussing it with a Greek-literate individual, the meaning of the \nword is rather clear. Basically it literally means "he who beds with a man"\nor "he who has sex with a man." The burden of proof is on the \npro-homosexuality side of the argument to show that the word has an \nidiomatic meaning nor evident from its literal meaning. One can speculate\nall day long that it might mean something else, but we need evidence\nbefore we create new doctrines, and get rid of the historical understanding\nof the meaning of this word.\n\nLink Hudson.\n\n\n[I\'ve read enough discussions of this passage, in both liberal and\nconservative sources, to be sure that the meaning -- even the literal\nmeaning -- is not certain. That doesn\'t mean one can\'t come to some\nconclusion, nor does it mean that I think there\'s any doubt about what\nPaul thinks of homosexuality. But there are plausible arguments for\na couple of different meanings. --clh]\n',
'From: mmm@cup.portal.com (Mark Robert Thorson)\nSubject: Re: hypodermic needle\nOrganization: The Portal System (TM)\nLines: 4\n\nScientific American had a nice short article on the history of the\nhypodermic about 10 or 15 years ago. Prior to liquid injectables,\nthere were paddle-like needles used to implant a tiny pill under the\nskin.\n',
'From: ddavis@cass.ma02.bull.com (Dave Davis)\nSubject: Re: Deuterocanicals, eps. Sirach\nLines: 108\n\nThanks for the responses so far. I hope that I have \nsparked some thought (which is more my intent than \nto restart one of the Reformations).\n\nI\'m just going to tug on two threads:\n\nIn Message-ID: <May.10.05.07.21.1993.3479@athos.rutgers.edu>\ndb7n+@andrew.cmu.edu (D. Andrew Byler) writes, \n\n>\tAnd I must point out that\n>the Jews only drew up their canon in 90 AD, 60 years after the founding\n>of the Christian Religion upon the Cross. Why should we adhere to a\n>canon that was drawn up by the faithless, in reaction to the Chrsitian\n>use of the Greek Septuagint, which includes the deutero-canon? \n\nI was simply observing that as a non-Jew, I am not in that community\nwhich might be bound by such a decision (I don\'t know much about\nthe Council of Jamnia, but I have heard that it is not well-attested\nhistorically). \'Faithless\' has nothing to do with it, and I prefer\nnot to speculate about motives.\n\n>As early\n>as 150 AD, St. Justin had already accused the Jews of mutilating the\n>Canon of Scripture by their removal of certain books. \n\nI wish the Dialogue_with_Trypho were a real transcript of a real\ndialogue,, but I think it a fictional effect on Justin\'s part.\nPutting that to one side, Justin\'s point may be evidential; one\nwould want to know- \'which books?\'\n\n>Protestants apparently prefer to think that God\'s revelation was limited \n>by a decree of the Jews [...]\n\nPerhaps the reformers were traveling in all the light (MS evidence)\nthey had. Let\'s stick to the issues. Again, I prefer not to speculate\nabout motives. One would need quotes from Luther, Calvin, etc. to\nevidence this \'preference\'.\n\n-----\nIn Message-ID: <May.9.05.38.22.1993.27327@athos.rutgers.edu>\nwagner@grace.math.uh.edu (David Wagner)\n\n>That is not quite accurate. Otherwise we would have the book\n>of Enoch in the canon (as Dave noted). One can say that the \n>apocrypha are not quoted by Christ. \n\nIs this the principle: \'Any (BC) text not quoted by Christ cannot\nbe counted as Scripture\' ? Think well about this- Job, Ruth...?\n\nI wrote:\n \t\tThese is a logically invalid *a priori*. \n \t\tBesides, we are talking about OT texts- \n \t\twhich in many parts are superceded by the NT\n \t\t(in the Xtian view). Would not this same\n \t\tprinciple exclude _Ecclesiastes_?\n \t\tThis principle cannot be consistently applied.\n\nDave W. answers:\n \n>I have to reject your argument here. The Spirit speaks with one\n>voice, and he does not contradict himself. \n\nMeaning what? Do you affirm the principle (that the D.c\'s can be\nexcluded since they contain \'false doctrine\') or do you deny it? \nIf affirmed (as is implied in your statement) how does one determine \nthat doctrine X is false? Do you affirm every teaching in _Ecclesiastes_?\n\n>The ultimate test of canonicity is whether the words are inspired\n>by the Spirit, i.e., God-breathed. It is a test which is more\n>guided by faith than by reason or logic. \n\nIf so, it may be a test that cannot be applied. The Orthodox\nfaithfully believe that Psalm 151 is canonical. How can my\nfaith say \'Not!\' ? All I hear here is the *a priori* I mentioned\nbefore.\n\n>The deutero-canonical books were added much later in the church\'s\n>history. \n\nThis is contrary to fact.\n\n>They do not have the same spiritual quality as the\n>rest of Scripture. \n\nCan this be elevated to a principle? How is \'spiritual quality\'\nmeasured? I\'ll take the \'spiritual quality\' of most of Sirach over \nJoshua or Chronicles, any day.\n\n>I do not believe the church that added these\n>books was guided by the Spirit in so doing. \n\nWhat can I say? You believe what you believe- I\'m asking for\na consistency check. I don\'t see that the books were added- in any\nconstruction this formulation begs the question. No one can validly\nask me to \'have faith\' that these books are noncanonical.\n\n\nDave Davis, ddavis@ma30.bull.com\nThese are my opinions & activities alone\n\nQOTD:\n\n"Christianity is not a doctrine, not, I mean, a theory about what has\n happened and will happen to the human soul, but a description of something\n that actually takes place in a human life. For `consciousness of sin\' is a\n real event, and so are despair and salvation through faith. Those who speak\n of such things (Bunyan, for instance) are simply describing what has happened\n to them, whatever anyone may want to say about it." -- Ludwig Wittgenstein\n',
"From: jussi@tor.abo.fi (Jussi Laaksonen DC)\nSubject: Lasergraphics Language ?\nOrganization: ]bo Akademi University, Finland\nDistribution: comp.graphics\nLines: 25\n\nHi!\n\nWe have an old Montage FR-1 35mm film recorder. When connected to a PC with\nits processor card it can directly take HPGL, Targa and Lasergraphics Language\nfiles. 24 bit Targa is quite OK for raster images, but conversion from \nwhatever one happens to have can be quite slow. This Lasergraphics Language\nseems to be (got the source file for one test image) a vector-based language\nthat can handle one million colors. It does some polygons too, and perhaps\nsomething else ?\n\nThe question is, where can I find some information about this language ?\nA FTP site, a book, a company address,.... ?\n\n(OK, it would be nice to have a Windows driver for it, but I'm not THAT\noptimistic...)\n\nThanks in advance for any help!\n\n\tjussi\n\n\n--\n\tJussi Laaksonen\n Computing Centre / ]bo Akademi University, Finland\n\n",
'Subject: Re: Alleged Deathbed Conversions (was: Asimov stamp)\nFrom: lippard@skyblu.ccit.arizona.edu (James J. Lippard)\n <C61H4H.8D4@dcs.ed.ac.uk> <sheafferC63zt0.Brs@netcom.com> <C6697n.33o@panix.com>\nDistribution: world,local\nOrganization: University of Arizona\nNntp-Posting-Host: skyblu.ccit.arizona.edu\nNews-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41 \nLines: 42\n\nIn article <C6697n.33o@panix.com>, carlf@panix.com (Carl Fink) writes...\n>In <sheafferC63zt0.Brs@netcom.com> sheaffer@netcom.com (Robert Sheaffer) writes:\n> \n>[deletion]\n>>It had to happen: the old allegation of the "deathbed conversion" of the\n>>noted unbeliever. I seem to recall similar claims being made about\n>>Voltaire, Mencken, Darwin, Ingersoll, etc. Indeed, the literary hoax\n>>attributed to Nietzsche, "My Sister and I", portrays him as trembling\n>>in fear before Divine Judgment (and it was recently re-issued by _Amok_\n>>Books, with an introduction by a Lutheran professor telling us why we\n>>should take it seriously!). What all of these "deathbed conversion"\n>>claims have in common is that they are utterly unsubstantiated, and\n>>almost certainly untrue.\n> \n> Perhaps the least believable and most infurating alleged conversion\n>was that of Tom Paine, reported, like most, only by his devout\n>relatives.\n> \n> Asimov was very unlikely to convert to Christianity on his deathbed.\n>Return to Judaism, perhaps, if he did revert to childhood training,\n>but Christianity? The Good Doctor would more likely have converted to\n>Hinduism.\n\n"Isaac Asimov read creationist books. He read the Bible. He had ample\nopportunity to kneel before his Creator and Savior. He refused. In\nfact, he sent out a strong promotional letter urging support of the\nAmerican Humanist Association, shortly before he died."\n\n --excerpt from Ken Ham, "Asimov Meets His Creator," _Back to Genesis_\n No. 42, June 1992, p. c (included in _Acts & Facts_ vol. 21, no. 6,\n June 1992, from the Institute for Creation Research). This is one\n of the most offensive articles they\'ve ever published--but at least\n it argues *against* a deathbed conversion. There\'s a part of the\n article even worse than what I\'ve just quoted, in which an excerpt\n from a reader\'s letter says that if Asimov is burning in hell now,\n "then he certainly has had a 180-degree change in his former beliefs\n about creation and the Creator." (A post-deathbed conversion.)\n\nJim Lippard Lippard@CCIT.ARIZONA.EDU\nDept. of Philosophy Lippard@ARIZVMS.BITNET\nUniversity of Arizona\nTucson, AZ 85721\n',
'From: Eugene.Bigelow@ebay.sun.com (Geno )\nSubject: Re: The doctrine of Original Sin\nReply-To: Eugene.Bigelow@ebay.sun.com\nOrganization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.\nLines: 9\n\n\n creps@lateran.ucs.indiana.edu (Stephen A. Creps) writes:\n\n[Anyway, your argument seems to be saying, "If _I_ were\nGod, I certainly wouldn\'t do things that way; therefore, God doesn\'t do\nthings that way."]\n\nI would never have the audacity to say such a thing. My argument says\nonly that I do not understand.\n',
'From: hudson@athena.cs.uga.edu (Paul Hudson Jr)\nSubject: Re: Portland earthquake\nOrganization: University of Georgia, Athens\nLines: 19\n\nIn article <May.7.01.09.33.1993.14542@athos.rutgers.edu> cctr114@cantua.canterbury.ac.nz (Bill Rea) writes:\n>in history seems to imply some pretty serious sin. The one of the \n>pastors in the church I attend, Christchurch City Elim, considers \n>that a prophesy of a natural disaster as a "judgement from the Lord" \n>is a clear sign that the "prophesy" is not from the Lord. \n\nI would like to see his reasoning behind this. You may have gotten \n"burned" by natural disaster prophecies down there, but that\ndoes not mean that every natural disaster/judgement prophecy is\nfalse. Take a quick look at the book of Jeremiah and it is obvious\nthat judgement prophecies can be valid. here in the US, it seems like\nwe might have more of a problem with positive prophecies, though I\nam sure there may be a few people who are too into judgement.\n\nSometimes God does give words that are difficult to swallow. The\nrelative positiveness of a prophecy is not necesarily grounds to\ndismiss it. Much of the OT is not happy stuff.\n\nLink Hudson.\n',
'From: jgreen@trumpet.calpoly.edu (James Thomas Green)\nSubject: Re: "So help you God" in court?\nOrganization: California Polytechnic State University, San Luis Obispo\nLines: 22\n\nbobbe@vice (Robert Beauchaine;6086;59-323;LP=A;YAyG) Pontificated: \n>\n> I guess I don\'t understand the problem. I\'ve never had any\n> problem swearing and using the name of "god" in the same sentence.\n> Comes quite naturally, as a matter of facxt.\n>\n\nI would guess that you either mean that you don\'t have a problem\nswearing aligance to a non-existant being or that you are being\ndeliberatily dense (considering what group this is). \n\nIt doesn\'t come "quite naturally" to nonbelievers such as myself\nor even to followers of other religions. Would you say it would\nbe quite natural if you were forced to swear by "Allah" or\n"Budda"? \n\n\n\n/~~~(-: James T. Green :-)~~~~(-: jgreen@oboe.calpoly.edu :-)~~~\\ \n| "At all times and in all nations, |\n| the priest has been hostile to liberty." |\n| <Thomas Jefferson> |\n',
'From: cobb@alexia.lis.uiuc.edu (Mike Cobb)\nSubject: Re: Societally acceptable behavior\nOrganization: University of Illinois at Urbana\nLines: 20\n\nI guess I\'m delving into a religious language area. What exactly is morality \nor morals? I never thought of eating meat to be moral or immoral, but I think\nit could be. How do we differentiate between not doing something because it is\na personal choice or preference and not doing something because we see it as \nimmoral? Do we fall to what the basis of these morals are?\n\nAlso, consensus positions fall to a might makes right. Or, as you brought out,\nif whatever is right is what is societally mandated then whoever is in control\nat the time makes what is right\n\nMC\nMAC\n--\n****************************************************************\n Michael A. Cobb\n "...and I won\'t raise taxes on the middle University of Illinois\n class to pay for my programs." Champaign-Urbana\n -Bill Clinton 3rd Debate cobb@alexia.lis.uiuc.edu\n \nNobody can explain everything to anybody. G.K.Chesterton\n',
"From: mathew <mathew@mantis.co.uk>\nSubject: Re: Gulf War (was Re: Death Penalty was Re: Political Atheists?)\nOrganization: Mantis Consultants, Cambridge. UK.\nX-Newsreader: rusnews v1.02\nLines: 18\n\nmccullou@snake2.cs.wisc.edu (Mark McCullough) writes:\n> I looked back at this, and asked some questions of various people and\n> got the following information which I had claimed and you pooh-poohed.\n> The US has not sold Iraq any arms.\n\nWhat about the land mines which have already been mentioned?\n\n> other countries (like Kuwait). Information is hard to prove. You are\n> claiming that the US sold information? Prove it. [...] Information\n> is hard to prove, almost certainly if the US did sell information, then that\n> fact is classified, and you can't prove it.\n\nOh, very neat. Dismiss everything I say unless I can prove beyond a shadow\nof a doubt something which you yourself admit I can never prove to your\nsatisfaction. Thanks, I'll stick to squaring circles.\n\n\nmathew\n",
'From: sharon@world.std.com (Sharon M Gartenberg)\nSubject: From Srebrenica: "Doctoring" in Hell\nSummary: What it\'s like WITHOUT modern medicine in war\nOrganization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA\nLines: 84\n\n\nSREBRENICA\'S DOCTOR RECOUNTS TOWN\'S LIVING HELL\n \n By Laura Pitter\n TUZLA, Bosnia, Reuter - Neret Mujanovic was a pathologist\nwhen he trekked through the mountains to the besieged Muslim\ntown of Srebrenica last August.\n But after treating 4,000 mangled victims of Bosnia\'s bloody\nwar, he considers himself a surgeon.\n ``Now I\'m a surgeon with great experience although I have no\nlicense to practice. But if I operate on a person and he lives\nnormally that\'s the greatest license a surgeon could have.\'\'\n Evacuated by the U.N. this week to his home town of Tuzla,\nthe Muslim physician gave an eyewitness medical assessment of\nthe horrors of the year-long Serb siege of Srebrenica and the\nsuffering of the thousands trapped there.\n ``I lived through hell together with the people of\nSrebrenica. All those who lived through this are the greatest\nheroes that humanity can produce,\'\' he told reporters.\n Mujanovic, 31, had practiced for two months as an assistant\nat a local hospital in Tuzla, but before going to Srebrenica he\nhad never performed a surgical operation on his own. Now he says\nhe has performed major surgery 1,396 times, relying on books for\nguidance, amputating arms and legs 150 times, usually without\nanesthetic, delivering 350 babies and performing four cesarean\nsections.\n He worked 18-to-19-hour days, slept in the hospital for the\nfirst 10 weeks after his arrival last Aug. 5 and treated 4,000\npatients.\n He arrived after making the trek over mountains on foot from\nTuzla, 60 miles northwest of Srebrenica. About 50 other people\ncarried in supplies and 350 soldiers guided and protected him\nthrough guerrilla terrain, he said.\n His worst memory was of 10 days ago when seven Serb shells\nlanded within one minute in an area half the size of a football\nfield, killing 36 people immediately and wounding 102. Half of\nthe dead were women and children.\n The people had come out for a rare day of sunshine and the\nchildren were playing soccer. ``There was no warning ... the\nblood flowed like a river in the street,\'\' he said.\n ``There were pieces of women all around and you could not\npiece them together. One woman holding her two children in her\nhands was lying with them on the ground dead. They had no\nheads.\'\'\n Before Mujanovic arrived with his supplies conditions were\ndeplorable, he said. Many deaths could have been prevented had\nthe hospital had surgical tools, facilities and medicine.\n The six general practitioners who had been operating before\nhe arrived had even less surgical experience than he did. ``They\ndidn\'t know the basic principles for amputating limbs.\'\'\n Once he arrived the situation improved, he said, but by\nmid-September he had run out of supplies.\n ``Bandages were washed and boiled five times ... sometimes\nthey were falling apart in my hands,\'\' he said. Doctors had no\nanesthetic and could not give patients alcohol to numb the pain\nbecause it increased bleeding.\n ``People were completely conscious during amputations and\nstomach operations,\'\' he said. Blood transfusions were\nimpossible because they had no facilities to test blood types.\n ``I felt destroyed psychologically,\'\' Mujanovic said.\n The situation improved after Dec. 4, when a convoy arrived\nfrom the Belgian medical group Medecins Sans Frontieres.\n But Mujanovic said the military predicament worsened in\nmid-December after Bosnian Serbs began a major offensive in the\nregion. ``Every day we had air strikes and shellings.\'\'\n Then the hunger set in.\n Between mid-December and mid-March, when U.S. planes began\nair dropping food, between 20 and 30 people were dying every day\nfrom complications associated with malnutrition, he said.\n ``I know for sure that the air drop operation saved the\npeople from massive death by hunger and starvation,\'\' he said.\n According to Mujanovic, around 5,000 people died in\nSrebrenica, 1,000 of them children, during a year of siege.\n Mujanovic plans to return to Srebrenica in three weeks after\nvisiting his wife, who is ill in Tuzla.\n ``They say I\'m a hero,\'\' he said. ``There were thousands of\npeople standing at the sides of the road, crying and waving when\nI left. And I cried too.\'\'\n\n-- \nSharon Machlis Gartenberg\nFramingham, MA USA\ne-mail: sharon@world.std.com\n\n',
'From: hayesstw@risc1.unisa.ac.za (Steve Hayes)\nSubject: Re: Monophysites and Mike Walker\nOrganization: University of South Africa\nLines: 29\n\nIn article <May.9.05.38.52.1993.27378@athos.rutgers.edu> nabil@cae.wisc.edu (Nabil Ayoub) writes:\n\n>As a final note, the Oriental Orthodox and Eastren Orthodox did sign\n>a common statement of Christology, in which the heresey of Monophysitism\n>was condemned. So the Coptic Orthodox Church does not believe in\n>Monophysitism.\n\nThis is a point that seems to have been overlooked by many. The ending of a \n1600 year old schism seems to be in sight.\n\nThe theologians said that the differences between them were fundamentally \nones or terminology, and that the Christological faith of both groups was \nthe same.\n\nSome parishes have concelebrated the Eucharist, and here in Southern Africa \nwe are running a joint theological training course for Coptic and Byzantine \nOrthodox. \n\nThere are still several things to be sorted out, however. As far as the \nCopts are concerned, there were three ecumenical councils, whily the \nByzantine Orthodox acknowledge seven.\n\n============================================================\nSteve Hayes, Department of Missiology & Editorial Department\nUniv. of South Africa, P.O. Box 392, Pretoria, 0001 South Africa\nInternet: hayesstw@risc1.unisa.ac.za Fidonet: 5:7101/20\n steve.hayes@p5.f22.n7101.z5.fidonet.org\nFAQ: Missiology is the study of Christian mission and is part of\n the Faculty of Theology at Unisa\n',
'From: haynes@cats.ucsc.edu (Jim Haynes)\nSubject: Is this a total or partial scam?\nOrganization: University of California; Santa Cruz\nLines: 17\nNNTP-Posting-Host: hobbes.ucsc.edu\n\n\nThere\'s a chiropractor who has a stand in the middle of a shopping\nmall, offering free examinations. Part of the process involves a\nmultiple-jointed sensor arm and a computer that says in a computer-\nsounding voice "digitize left PSIS" "digitize right PSIS" "digitize\nC7" "please stand with spine in neutral position". I\'m wondering\nwhether this doesn\'t really measure anything and the computer voice\nis to impress the victims, or whether it is measuring something\nthat chiropractors think is useful to measure.\n-- \nhaynes@cats.ucsc.edu\nhaynes@cats.bitnet\n\n"Ya can talk all ya wanna, but it\'s dif\'rent than it was!"\n"No it aint! But ya gotta know the territory!"\n Meredith Willson: "The Music Man"\n\n',
'From: forgach@noao.edu (Suzanne Forgach)\nSubject: Re: After 2000 years, can we say that Christian Morality is\nOriginator: forgach@gemini.tuc.noao.edu\nNntp-Posting-Host: gemini.tuc.noao.edu\nOrganization: National Optical Astronomy Observatories, Tucson, AZ, USA\nLines: 5\n\n> In article <kmr4.1587.734911207@po.CWRU.edu> kmr4@po.CWRU.edu (Keith M. Ryan) writes:\n>\n> Only when the Sun starts to orbit the Earth will I accept the Bible. \n\nDid you forget that two spinning skaters are in orbit around each other?\n',
'From: matt-dah@dsv.su.se (Mattias Dahlberg)\nSubject: Re: Psygnosis CD-I titles (was Re: Rumours about 3DO ???)\nOrganization: Dept. of Computer and Systems Sciences, Stockholm University\nLines: 12\nX-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]\n\nMark Samson (samson@prlhp1.prl.philips.co.uk) wrote:\n\n> Speaking of Psygnosis, they have licensed games to Philips Interative\n> Media International for CD-I.\n\nAnd for the Commodore CDTV.\n\n--\n=========================================================\n= Regards = email: = 1280x512x262000+ = \n= Mattias = matt-dah@dsv.su.se = I love it. =\n=========================================================\n',
'From: aidler@sol.uvic.ca (E Alan Idler)\nSubject: Re: Mormon Temples\nOrganization: University of Victoria\nLines: 91\n\ndhammers@pacific.? (David Hammerslag) writes:\n\n>This paragraph brought to mind a question. How do you (Mormons) reconcile\n>the idea of eternal marriage with Christ\'s statement that in the ressurection\n>people will neither marry nor be given in marriage (Luke, chapt. 20)?\n\nHere is the short answer: because only\ncertain marriages are recorded in Heaven.\n\nNow for the long answer:\n\nIn Doctrine and Covenants section 132, the \nchapter discussing eternal marriage (and, yes,\nplural marriage), the distinction between\nsealings under the priesthood and other \nmarriages is revealed. \n\nWhen "the children of this world marry, or are\ngiven in marriage" when they receive "the \nresurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are\ngiven in marriage" (Luke 20:34-35).\nJesus was simply teaching that marriages "until\ndeath do you part" are not in force after death.\n\nHowever, the Doctrine and Covenants continues \ndescribing eternal marriage.\n\nD&C 132:19\n And again, verily I say unto you, if a \nman marry a wife by my word, which is my law, and\nby the new and everlasting covenant, and it is\nsealed unto them by the Holy Spirit of promise,\nby him who is anointed this power and the keys \nof this priesthood; ... [ shortened for brevity AI]\nand shall be of full force when they are out of\nthe world; and they shall pass by the angels, \nand the gods, which are set there, to their \nexhaltation and glory in all things, as hath been \nsealed upon their heads, which glory shall be a \nfulness and a continuation of the seeds forever\nand ever.\n\nThe Lord told Peter "whatsoever thou shalt bind\non earth shall be bound in heaven" (Matt 16:19).\nDo you doubt that Peter was given the power to \nperform sealings?\nPeter thought so because he taught that husbands\nand wives were "heirs *together* of the grace of\nlife" (1 Peter 3:7).\n\n"In order to obtain the highest" (degree of\ncelestial glory), a man must enter into this\norder of the priesthood" (D&C 131:2).\nWhen a man and wife are sealed they truly become \n"one flesh" because their eternal "increase" \n(destinies) are enjoined completely.\n\nOur Father has an eternal companion (and maybe\nmore because of the plural marriage conditions\nof the law) who participated in our creation\nand is equally concerned with our progress here.\n\nThere is no scriptural basis for this doctrine.\nIf fact, the only mention of our Mother is in\none verse of a hymn written early in the history\nof the Church:\n\n O My Father\n\n I had learned to call thee Father,\n Through thy Spirit from on high,\n But, until the key of knowledge\n Was restored, I knew not why.\n In the heav\'ns are parents single?\n No, the thought makes reason stare!\n Truth is reason; truth eternal\n Tells me I\'ve a mother there.\n\nWhy don\'t we hear more about our Mother?\n\n1. Because our Father presides under Priesthood\nauthority (which is not a calling for Her);\n\n2. Because we don\'t all (necessarily) have the\nsame Mother it would be confusing for worship;\n\n3. Because our Father wishes to withhold Her\nname and titles because of how some people\ndegrade sacred things.\n\nA IDLER\n',
'From: dlhanson@amoco.com (David L. Hanson)\nSubject: Re: SJ Mercury\'s reference to Fundamentalist Christian parents\nOrganization: These are my opinions.\nLines: 66\n\nIn article <May.14.02.10.09.1993.25137@athos.rutgers.edu> David.Bernard@central.sun.com (Dave Bernard) writes:\n>From: David.Bernard@central.sun.com (Dave Bernard)\n>Subject: Re: SJ Mercury\'s reference to Fundamentalist Christian parents\n>Date: 14 May 93 06:10:10 GMT\n>In article 28120@athos.rutgers.edu, dan@ingres.com (a Rose arose) writes:\n>\n>>\t"Raised in Oakland and San Lorenzo by strict fundamentalist\n>>\tChristian parents, Mason was beaten as a child. He once was\n>>\n>>Were the San Jose Mercury news to come out with an article starting with\n>>"Raised in Oakland by Mexican parents, Mason was beaten...", my face would\n>>be red with anger over the injustice done to my Mexican family members and\n>\n>\n>Although I\'m neither Fundamentalist nor Evangelical, I have often noticed\n>this trend in the media. In short, it is permissable to bash Fundamentalists.\n>No need to substitue a nationality such as "Mexican..." try simply to \n>substitute a different religion "...raised by Muslim parents," or "...raised\n>by Jewish parents..." The paper simply would not do this.\n\nI have noticed that newspapers don\'t even know what a fundamentalist is;\nat the least, they confuse new evangelicals and fundamentalists. In this\nnews group, the liberals don\'t even know what a fundamentalist is (crying\nout "legalist" at anyone who believes and obeys God\'s Word). A fundamentalist\nwould train their children in the way God proscribes, not in the way that\nman proscribes. This would not include life threatening beatings but would\ninclude corporal punishment. \n\nTo the liberals, I cry out infidel at anyone who does not believe God\'s Word.\n\nSignature follows:\n"Your statutes are wonderful: therefore I obey them." Psalm 119:129\n=========================================================================\nDavid L. Hanson\nAny opinions expressed are my own!\n\n[As most people here know, I believe fundamentalist is sufficiently\nill-defined that I advise using some more specific term. I think many\npeople use it to cover people who believe in inerrancy and a number of\nrelated concepts (e.g. denial of evolution). While the original\nfundamentals movement was somewhat more specific, I would think most\npeople who accept inerrancy would actually support the whole original\nagenda. (It included a list of key traditional doctrines, e.g. the\nvirgin birth.) The term is now being used by the press to describe\naggressive conservative religions in general, most typically those who\nare attempting to legislate religion.\n\nLegalism is yet another ill-defined term. However there is some\nreason for its use in this context. In fact the common theological\ndefinition is the believe that salvation is through the Law. I hope\nno one here believes that our conservative contributors hold this\nview. However there is a basic difference in approach over what we\nexpect to get out of the Bible. The conservative approach expects to\nfind specific behavioral rules. Generally the posters advocating this\napproach talk about the relevant passages from Paul\'s letter as God\'s\nLaw. The liberal approach expects to find general principles, but it\nregards specific behavioral rules subject to change depending upon the\nculture and other things. It\'s easy to see why a liberal would regard\nthe conservative approach as legalism. It\'s hard to know quite what\nother term to use. The issue in this case is not inerrancy, because\nno one is saying that Paul made a factual error. Rather, the question\nis whether his statements are to be taken as Law. Calling the\npositive answer legalism seems obvious enough terminology. I haven\'t\nseen any good alternative.\n\n--clh]\n',
'From: frank@D012S658.uucp (Frank O\'Dwyer)\nSubject: Re: Bayesian Statistics, theism and atheism\nOrganization: Siemens-Nixdorf AG\nLines: 192\nNNTP-Posting-Host: d012s658.ap.mchp.sni.de\n\nIn article <1993Apr24.165301.8321@dcs.warwick.ac.uk> simon@dcs.warwick.ac.uk (Simon Clippingdale) writes:\n#In article <1quei1$8mb@horus.ap.mchp.sni.de> frank@D012S658.uucp (Frank O\'Dwyer) writes:\n#>In article <1993Apr15.181924.21026@dcs.warwick.ac.uk> simon@dcs.warwick.ac.uk (Simon Clippingdale) writes:\n[I write:]\n#>>> Imagine that 1000000 Alterian dollars turn up in your bank account every\n#>>> month. Suppose further that this money is being paid to you by (a) your \n#>>> big-hearted Alterian benefactor, or (b) a bug in an Alterian ATM. Let\'s\n#>>> suppose that this is a true dichotomy, so P(a)+P(b)=1. Trouble is, Alterius \n#>>> is in a different universe, so that no observations of Alterius are possible\n#>>> (except for the banks - you couldn\'t possibly afford it ;-)\n#>>> \n#>>> Now let\'s examine the case for (a). There is no evidence whatsoever that\n#>>> there is any such thing as a big-hearted Alterian benefactor. However,\n#>>> P(exists(b-h A b)) + P(not(exists(b-h A b)) = 1. On the grounds that \n#>>> lack_of_evidence_for is evidence_against when we have a partition like\n#>>> that, we dismiss hypothesis (a).\n#>>>\n#>>> Turning, therefore, to (b), we also find no evidence to support that\n#>>> hypothesis. On the same grounds as before, we dismiss hypothesis (b).\n#>>>\n#>>> The problem with this is that we have dismissed *all* of the possible\n#>>> hypotheses, and even though we know by construction that the money \n#>>> arrives every month, we have proven that it can\'t, because we\n#>>> have dismissed all of its potential causes.\n#\n#>> That\'s an *extremely* poor argument, and here\'s why.\n#>>\n#>> Premise 1: "...this money is being paid to you by [either] (a) your big-\n#>> hearted Alterian benefactor, or (b) a bug in an Alterian ATM".\n#>> \n#>> Thus each monthly appearance of the bucks, should it happen, is an\n#>> observation on Alterius, and by construction, is evidence for the\n#>> existence of [either the benefactor or the bug in the ATM].\n#>> \n#>> Premise 2: no observations on Alterius are possible.\n#\n#> #> (except for the banks - you couldn\'t possibly afford it ;-)\n#>\n#> You forgot to include this. My premise is actually:\n#>\n#> Premise 2: The cardinality of the set of possible observations on Alterius\n#> is one.\n#\n#>> This is clearly contradictory to the first.\n#\n#> Not if you state it properly.\n#\n#>> Trouble is, on the basis of premise 2, you say that there can be no evidence\n#>> of [either the benefactor or the bug], but the first premise leads to the\n#>> conclusion that the appearance of the bucks, should it happen, is evidence\n#>> for the existence of [either the benefactor or the bug].\n#>> \n#>> Voila, a screaming contradiction.\n#\n#[with my highlights - SC]\n#> But in a strawman argument. There is only evidence for OneOf(Benefactor,Bug).\n#> No observation to distinguish Benefactor from Bug is possible. That is\n#> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~\n#> not evidence for Bug, and neither is it evidence for Benefactor. Nor\n#> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~\n#> is true to say that this hypothetical universe appears exactly as\n#> if there were no Benefactor/Bug (two statements, both would be false).\n#\n#This is still contradictory. It reduces to\n#\n# (1): Alterian dosh arriving in my account is due to [benefactor or bug].\n#\n# (2): this is not evidence for [benefactor], neither is it evidence for\n# [bug] (meaning that it doesn\'t lend more weight to one than to the\n# other)\n#\n# (3): therefore no evidence can exist for [benefactor] and no evidence\n# can exist for [bug].\n#\n#But (3) relies on a shift in meaning from (2). When you say (paraphrased)\n#in (2) that this is not "evidence for [benefactor]", for example, what you\n#mean is that it\'s no *more* evidence for [benefactor] than it is for [bug].\n\nYes, that\'s what I mean.\n\n#In (3), however, you\'ve shifted the meaning of "evidence for [benefactor]"\n#so that it now means `absolute\' "evidence for [benefactor]" rather than\n#`relative\' "evidence for [benefactor]" w.r.t. [bug].\n\nNot really, I meant evidence that would tend to one over the other. I\nthink this is just a communications problem. What I am trying to say,\nin my clumsy way, is that while I buy your theory as far as it relates\nto theism making predictions (prayer, your \'Rapture\' example), I don\'t\nbuy your use of Occam\'s razor in all cases where A=0.\n\nIn my example, one couldn\'t dismiss\n[benefactor] or [bug] on the grounds of simplicity - one of these is necessary\nto explain the dosh. I brought up the \'one-by-one dismissal\' process to\nshow that it would be wrong to do so. From what you\'re saying in this\npost, it seems you agree, and we\'re talking at cross-purposes.\n\n#(3) is still in contradiction to (1).\n#\n#Some sums may help. With B = benefactor, b = bug, d = dosh arrives in account:\n#\n# (1) implies P(B+b | d) = 1\n#\n#Assuming that P(Bb | d) = 0, so it\'s either the benefactor *or* a bug\n#which is responsible if the bucks arrive, but not both, then\n#\n# P(B+b | d) = P(B | d) + P(b | d)\n#\n#so\n#\n# P(B | d) + P(b | d) = 1\n#\n#but (3) implies that\n#\n# P(B | d) = 0 and P(b | d) = 0.\n\nNo, this isn\'t what I meant. P(B | d) = 0.5 and P(b | d) = 0.5, with\nnecessarily no new observation (we\'ve already seen the dosh) to change\nthose estimates. I was trying to say (again, in my clumsy way) that\nit would be _wrong_ to assign 0 probability to either of these. And that\'s\nprecisely what use of the Razor does in the case of gods - gods are\none class of hypothesis (there are many others) belonging to a set of\nhypotheses _one_of_which_ is necessary to explain something which otherwise \nwould _not_ be satisfactorily explained. It can be thrown out or\nretained on grounds of non-rational preference, not of science or statistics. \nAlternatively, one could chuck out or retain the lot, on the grounds\nthat the answer can\'t be known, or that the notional probability estimates\nare effectively useless, being equal (agnosticism/weak atheism).\n\n#> As they do when the set M is filled by "the universe is caused by x",\n#> where x is gods, pink unicorns, nothing, etc. - and no observation\n#> tends to one conclusion over the other.\n#\n#Exactly the point I was making, I think. So we don\'t "throw out" any of\n#these, contrary to your assertion above that we do.\n\nSome people do, Simon, and they think they are doing excellent science.\nMy sole point was that they aren\'t.\n\n#>> Only observations which directly contradict the hypothesis H[i] (i.e. x\n#>> where P(x | H[i]) = 0) can cause P(H[i]) to go to zero after a finite\n#>> number of observations. Only in this case do we get to throw any of the\n#>> hypotheses out.\n#\n#> Exactly my point, though I may have been unclear.\n#\n#You said the diametric opposite, which I guess is the source of my confusion.\n\nI was merely trying to illustrate the incorrectness of doing so.\n\n#> What I\'m trying to say is that while you are correct to say that absence of\n#> evidence can sometimes be evidence of absence, this does not hold true for\n#> all, or perhaps any, versions of theism - and it isn\'t true that those for\n#> which it does not hold can be discarded using the razor.\n#\n#On the contrary, those for which it does not hold are *exactly* those which\n#can be discarded using the Razor. See my post on the other branch of this\n#thread.\n\nThen you seem to be guilty of the contradiction you accuse me of. If\nthe razor holds for gods, then it holds for all like hypotheses. Which\nmeans that you\'re assigning P(x | H[i]) =0 for all i, though we\'ve already\nestablished that it\'s not correct to do so when SUM(P(x|H[i]))=1 over\nall i.\n\n#> Simply put, anyone who claims to have a viable proof of the existence or\n#> non-existence of gods, whether inductive or no, is at best mistaken, and\n#> at worst barking mad.\n#\n#Luckily I make no such claim, and have specifically said as much on numerous\n#occasions. You wouldn\'t be constructing a strawman here, would you Frank?\n#Although that doesn\'t, of course, rule out my being barking mad in any case\n#(I could be barking mad in my spare time, with apologies to Cleese et al).\n#\n#But I think you miss the point once again. When I say that something is\n#"evidence against" an hypothesis, that doesn\'t imply that observation of\n#the said something necessarily *falsifies* the hypothesis, reducing the\n#estimate of P(H | data) to zero. If it *reduces* this quantity, it\'s still\n#evidence against H.\n\nNo, I got that. I\'m talking about the case when A=0. You\'re clearly\ncorrect when A!=0. And I\'m not constructing a strawman (though it\'s\ncertainly possible that I\'ve misunderstood what you\'re saying). However,\nby any standards, a system that says when A=0, gods are highly unlikely,\nand when A!=0 gods can be dismissed using the Razor, is a system purporting\nto be an inductive proof that gods either don\'t exist, or are unnecessary\nto explain any or all phenomena. In my experience, systems such as this\n(including those which purport to prove that gods exist) always contain\na fallacy upon close examination. If that\'s not what you\'re saying, then\nplease put me straight.\n-- \nFrank O\'Dwyer \'I\'m not hatching That\'\nodwyer@sse.ie from "Hens", by Evelyn Conlon\n',
"From: exjob-17@dali.NoSubdomain.NoDomain (Niclas Mattsson)\nSubject: WANTED: Grayscale dithering routine\nNntp-Posting-Host: dali.math.chalmers.se\nOrganization: Chalmers University of Technology\nLines: 15\n\nI have some color gifs which I would like to archive in a much smaller\nsize using a grayscale palette of 16 shades. The quantization to 16 grays\nintroduces some ugly bands in the pictures, which can be nicely eliminated\nby dithering. Up to now I have used XV to process the images, but now I\nwould like to automate the procedure.\n\nThe problem is that XV can't (I think) convert images automatically, and the\nobvious alternative PNMPLUS (PPMQUANT and PNMDITHER) don't even get close to\nXV's quality. PNMDITHER apparently dithers in RGB, even though the images\nare in grayscale. The dithering routine in XV seems to use the natural image\ncolors for the dither. Is this or any similar routine available in the\npublic domain? If so, where? \n-- \nNiclas Mattsson\nexjob-17@math.chalmers.se\n",
"Organization: Penn State University\nFrom: <GNR100@psuvm.psu.edu>\nSubject: Direct Acess to Video memory\nLines: 12\n\n Hi. I'm looking for information on how to directly manipulate\n video memory. I have an application that I would like to use this for,\n because it is much faster than going through the BIOS. I know that\n video memory ispart of the system area above the first 640K, so I guess\n I am looking to find out exactly what section of memory it is, and how it\n is layed out. Thanks.\n\n Regards, Gordon Rogers\n gnr100@psuvm.psu.edu\n/*********************************************************************/\nvoid signature(void){\n }\n",
"From: pww@spacsun.rice.edu (Peter Walker)\nSubject: Re: The Universe and Black Holes, was Re: 2000 years.....\nOrganization: I didn't do it, nobody saw me, you can't prove a thing.\nLines: 28\n\nIn article <1993Apr22.162239@IASTATE.EDU>, kv07@IASTATE.EDU (Warren\nVonroeschlaub) wrote:\n> \n> In article <1r5hj0INN14c@gap.caltech.edu>, keith@cco.caltech.edu (Keith Allan\n> Schneider) writes:\n> >Well, suppose a probe emitting radiation at a constant frequency was\n> >sent towards a black hole. As it got closer to the event horizon, the\n> >red shift would keep increasing. The period would get longer and longer,\n> >but it would never stop. An observer would not observe the probe actually\n> >reaching the event horizon. The detected energy from the probe would keep\n> >decreasing, but it wouldn't vanish. Exp(-t) never quite reaches zero.\n> \n> That's kind of what I meant. To be more precise, given any observer, in any\n> single position outside the event horizon, would that observer ever in any way,\n> be able to detect the probe having crossed the event horizon?\n\nYes, unless the observer is at rest with respect to the singularity at\ninfinite distance away. But an observer on a close approach to the BH will\nsee the particle go in in finite time.\n\nPeter\n\nDon't forget to sing:\n They say there's a heaven for those who will wait\n Some say it's better, but I say it ain't\n I'd rather laugh with the sinners than cry with the saints\n The sinners are much more fun\n Only the good die young!\n",
'From: lim@graphics.rent.com (Julie Lim)\nSubject: Re: Is MSG sensitivity superstition?\nOrganization: The Graphics BBS (2D,3D,GIF,Animation) +1 908/469-0049\nLines: 25\n\nmichael@iastate.edu (Michael M. Huang) writes:\n\n> MSG is common in many food we eat, including Chinese (though some oriental\n> restaurants might put a tad too much in them). I\'ve noticed that when I\n> go out and eat in most of the Chinese food restaurants, I will usually get\n> a slight headache and an ununsual thirst afterwards. This happens to many\n> of my friends and relatives too. And, heh, we eat Chinese food all the\n> time at home :) (but we don\'t use MSG when we\'re cooking for ourselves)\n\n Heck, I seem to feel like that *every* time I eat out. Including \nin the cafeteria at work. About half the time, the headache intensifies \nuntil nothing will make it go away except throwing up. Ick.\n\n As you might imagine, I don\'t eat out a lot. I guess my tolerance \nfor food additives has plummeted since I switched to eating mostly \nsteamed veggies. They\'re easy to fix, that\'s all.\n\n I won\'t even mention what happened the last time I ate corned \nbeef. (Oops. Too late.)\n\n\n The Graphics BBS 908/469-0049 "It\'s better than a sharp stick in the eye!" \n ============================================================================\n Internet: lim@graphics.rent.com (Julie Lim)\n UUCP: rutgers!bobsbox!graphics!lim\n',
'From: lioness@maple.circa.ufl.edu\nSubject: Re: SGI sales practices (Was: Crimson (Was: Kubota Announcement?))\nOrganization: Center for Instructional and Research Computing Activities\nLines: 26\nReply-To: LIONESS@ufcc.ufl.edu\nNNTP-Posting-Host: maple.circa.ufl.edu\n\nIn article <1rr6c3$9u3@calvin.NYU.EDU>, roy@mchip00.med.nyu.edu (Roy Smith) writes:\n|>\tWhat\'s really interesting is that from what I can tell, the MIS\n|>folks in the basement with their ES/9000 don\'t seem to be pissed at IBM.\n|>Why? I have no idea. Either IBM really does take care of their customers\n|>better, or they just have their customers brainwashed better than the\n|>smaller vendors do.\n\nNo, MIS folks have infinite budgets of death, and they also get parts\nof their budget allocated "upgrades", "maintenance", and "new purchases",\nand a lot of IBM mainframe purchases are actually "leases" and so\nis the software.\n\nBasically, the engineers who have tight budgets, i.e. the coders and\ndesigners of a company, bitch and moan when they drop 15,000 on a \nSparc 1 only to see a faster machine appear a year later. MIS types\nupgrade once every 5-10 years, and their costs are amortized and\ndepreciated over a longer period, and the budget office justifies\nthe expense because they actually use the machines for accounting,\npayroll, etc.\n\nNow, if the budget office was dependant on the engineers for some\nreason like payroll and accounts, you\'d sure as hell see every\nengineer with a new Cray on his desktop every year. :-)\n\nBrian\n\n',
"From: hd0022@albnyvms.bitnet (Chip Dunham)\nSubject: Re: Use of haldol in elderly\nReply-To: hd0022@albnyvms.bitnet\nOrganization: University of Albany, SUNY\nLines: 24\n\nIn article <westesC60xqF.59r@netcom.com>, westes@netcom.com (Will Estes) writes:\n>Does anyone know of research done on the use of haldol in the elderly? Does \n>short-term use of the drug ever produce long-term side-effects after\n>the use of the drug? My grandmother recently had to be hospitalized\n>and was given large doses of haldol for several weeks. Although the\n>drug has been terminated, she has changed from a perky, slightly\n>senile woman into a virtual vegetable who does not talk to anyone\n>and who cannot even eat or brush her teeth without assistance. It\n>seems incredible to me that such changes could take place in the\n>course of just one and one-half months. I have to believe that the\n>combination of the hospital stay and some drug(s) are in part\n>catalysts for this. Any comments?\n>\n>-- \n>Will Estes\t\tInternet: westes@netcom.com\n\nHaldol, one of the wonder drugs that works wonders. If you're a carrot that\nis.\n***************************************************************************\nHenry Dunham (Chip) EMT-D, NREMT\nCoordinator of EMS Operations\nHouston Field House EMS\nHD0022@albnyvms.bitnet\n***************************************************************************\n",
'From: stephen@mont.cs.missouri.edu (Stephen Montgomery-Smith)\nSubject: Pregnency without sex?\nKeywords: pregnency sex\nOrganization: University of Missouri\nLines: 10\n\nWhen I was a school boy, my biology teacher told us of an incident\nin which a couple were very passionate without actually having\nsexual intercourse. Somehow the girl became pregnent as sperm\ncells made their way to her through the clothes via persperation.\n\nWas my biology teacher misinforming us, or do such incidents actually\noccur?\n\nStephen\n\n',
'From: livesey@solntze.wpd.sgi.com (Jon Livesey)\nSubject: Re: A Little Too Satanic\nOrganization: sgi\nLines: 56\nDistribution: world\nNNTP-Posting-Host: solntze.wpd.sgi.com\n\nIn article <66615@mimsy.umd.edu>, mangoe@cs.umd.edu (Charley Wingate) writes:\n|> Jon Livesey writes:\n|> \n|> |> What I said was that people took time to *copy* *the* *text* correctly.\n|> |> Translations present completely different issues.\n|>\n|> \n|> >So why do I read in the papers that the Qumram texts had "different\n|> >versions" of some OT texts. Did I misunderstand?\n|> \n|> Reading newspapers to learn about this kind of stuff is not the best idea in\n|> the world. Newspaper reporters are notoriously ignorant on the subject of\n|> religion, and are prone to exaggeration in the interests of having a "real"\n|> story (that is, a bigger headline).\n|> \n|> Let\'s back up to 1935. At this point, we have the Masoretic text, the\n|> various targums (translations/commentaries in aramaic, etc.), and the\n|> Septuagint, the ancient greek translation. The Masoretic text is the\n|> standard Jewish text and essentially does not vary. In some places it has\n|> obvious corruptions, all of which are copied faithfully from copy to copy.\n|> These passages in the past were interpreted by reference to the targums and\n|> to the Septuagint.\n\nSo when they took the time to *copy* *the* *text* correctly, that includes\n"obvious corruptions?"\n\n|> \n|> Now, the septuagint differs from the masoretic text in two particulars:\n|> first, it includes additional texts, and second, in some passages there are\n|> variant readings from the masoretic text (in addition to "fixing"/predating\n|> the various corrupted passages). It must be emphasized that, to the best of\n|> my knowledge, these variations are only signifcant to bible scholars, and\n|> have little theological import.\n\nSo when they took the time to *copy* *the* *text* correctly, that does not\nexclude "variant readings from the masoretic text" which are "of little \ntheological import"\n\n|> \n|> The dead sea scroll materials add to this an ancient *copy* of almost all of\n|> Isaiah and fragments of various sizes of almost all other OT books. There\n|> is also an abundance of other material, but as far as I know, there is no\n|> sign there of any hebrew antecdent to the apocrypha (the extra texts in the\n|> septuagint). As far as analysis has proceeded, there are also variations\n|> between the DSS texts and the masoretic versions. These tend to reflect the\n|> septuagint, where the latter isn\'t obviously in error. Again, though, the\n|> differences (thus far) are not significant theologically. There is this big\n|> expectation that there are great theological surprises lurking in the\n|> material, but so far this hasn\'t happened.\n|> \n|> The DSS *are* important because there is almost no textual tradition in the\n|> OT, unlike for the NT.\n\nHey, you\'re the expert.\n\njon.\n',
'From: pww@spacsun.rice.edu (Peter Walker)\nSubject: Re: Christian Morality is\nOrganization: I didn\'t do it, nobody saw me, you can\'t prove a thing.\nLines: 44\n\nIn article <4949@eastman.UUCP>, dps@nasa.kodak.com (Dan Schaertel,,,)\nwrote:\n> \n> In article 11853@vice.ICO.TEK.COM, bobbe@vice.ICO.TEK.COM (Robert Beauchaine) writes:\n> |>\n> |> Yet I am still not a believer. Is god not concerned with my\n> |> disposition? Why is it beneath him to provide me with the\n> |> evidence I would require to believe? The evidence that my\n> |> personality, given to me by this god, would find compelling?\n> \n> The fact is God could cause you to believe anything He wants you to. \n> But think about it for a minute. Would you rather have someone love\n> you because you made them love you, or because they wanted to\n> love you. \n\nI wouldn\'t punish him with eternal torture if he didn\'t love me. But then\nI;m a decent chap. It seems your god isn\'t.\n\n> The responsibility is on you to love God and take a step toward\n> Him. He promises to be there for you, but you have to look for yourself.\n\nI\'ve looked, and he wasn\'t. Another promise broken.\n\n> Those who doubt this or dispute it have not givin it a sincere effort.\n\nLying bastard! How do you know what effort I have and have not given? \n\n> Simple logic arguments are folly. If you read the Bible you will see\n> that Jesus made fools of those who tried to trick him with "logic".\n> Our ability to reason is just a spec of creation. Yet some think it is\n> the ultimate. If you rely simply on your reason then you will never\n> know more than you do now. To learn you must accept that which\n> you don\'t know.\n\nCan anyone eaplain what he\'s just said here?\n\nPeter\n\nDon\'t forget to sing:\n They say there\'s a heaven for those who will wait\n Some say it\'s better, but I say it ain\'t\n I\'d rather laugh with the sinners than cry with the saints\n The sinners are much more fun\n Only the good die young!\n',
"From: eball12@ursa.calvin.edu (Edward Ball)\nSubject: IBM: Writing to screen memory (graphics)\nNntp-Posting-Host: ursa\nOrganization: Calvin College\nLines: 27\n\nCan anyone give me information or lead me to electronic information (not\nbooks; I'm too poor...) regarding programming the standard graphics modes?\n320x200x4 and 640x200x2 are easy enough, but I'm not so sure about the\nrest. Something about planes or something, and writing to ports and the\nlike, but I don't know the numbers or anything -- for the 16 color modes, I\nthink. If I'm wrong, let me know. Also, 320x200x256 is just one byte/pixel;\nthat's easy enough, but are there any other ways to write to the screen,\nperhaps bytes at a time, or something like that?\n\nOf course, I'd appreciate any information about any mode.... which reminds\nme of another question -- do the SuperVGA modes work the same, generally,\nas the normal 16 and 256 color modes, or is not only the mode numbers\nfor various cards different, but the methods for writing to the screen\ndifferent as well?\n\nThanks for any help you can give me... I'm developing a screen class for\nC++ and find myself searching for information. Oh, I do have Ralf Brown's\nInterrupt List, which has given me tons of invaluable information already.\nIt just doesn't go into the screen programming details (except for the\nread/write pixel BIOS calls...\n\nThanks again.\n\n--\n///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////\n// Edward Ball, .sigless Knight eball12@calvin.edu //\n///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////\n",
'From: kutz@andy.bgsu.edu (Ken Kutz)\nSubject: Re: FAQ essay on homosexuality\nOrganization: Bowling Green State University B.G., Oh.\nLines: 22\n\nOur moderator writes:\n\n> I believe one could take a view like this even while accepting the\n> views Paul expressed in Rom 1. One may believe that homosexuality is\n> not what God intended, that it occured as a result of sin, but still\n> conclude that at times we have to live with it. Note that in the\n> creation story work enters human life as a result of sin. This\n> doesn\'t mean that Christians can stop working when we are saved.\n\nPlease note that God commanded Adam to work before the fall:\n\n"The LORD God took the man and put him in the Garden of Eden to work\n it and take care of it." (Gen 2:15, NIV). \n\nWork was God\'s design from the beginning.\n\n-- \nKen\n\n[I\'ll clarify the wording. There was obviously a rather different\nkind of labor imposed after the fall, but the statement as it\nstands is misleading. --clh]\n',
'From: af774@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Chad Cipiti)\nSubject: Fractint on a Speedstar 24X\nOrganization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)\nLines: 17\nReply-To: af774@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Chad Cipiti)\nNNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu\n\n\nI\'m still looking for Fractint drivers or a new release which supports the\n 24bit color mode of the Diamond Speedstar 24X. There are some 2, 4 and 26\n million colros drivers, but none work with the 24X. \n\nAny help would be appreciated!\n\nThanks!\n\nChad\n\n\n-- \n .... New in 1993 \n ~ ~~ :::::.~~~ ~ ~ Sea World of Ohio Chad Cipiti \n~ ~~ ::SHARK:. ~ ~ cipiti@bobcat.ent.ohiou.edu\n ~~ .:ENCOUNTER:. ~~ "Make Contact." af774@cleveland.freenet.edu\n',
'From: ez019654@othello.ucdavis.edu (Victoria Milliron)\nSubject: Intel\'s PCI standard???\nOrganization: University of California, Davis\nX-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL3\nLines: 8\n\n I read a mesg. somewhere on GENIE about Intel coming out with a \ngraphics standard called PCI, which would supplant VESA standards. Is\nthis a rumor, or is there some substance to it. If any of y\'all have\nheard of this "standard" please e-mail me on how I might obtain more info\n\nThanks in Advance\nvamilliron@othello.ucd.edu\n\n',
'From: simon@giaeb.cc.monash.edu.au\nSubject: Virtues of Purity, Modesty and innocence\nOrganization: Monash University, Melb., Australia.\nLines: 154\n\nHeres a nice story to help explain the virtues of purity, innocence\nand modesty, and their importance.\n\n\n\n The Most Beautiful Virtues\n\n This story is an excerpt taken from The Basket of Flowers by\n Johann Christoph von Schmid\n\n\n In a certain little market town, over a hundred years ago,\tthere\n lived an upright\tand intelligent man named Jacob Rede. He was\n married to a most virtuous young woman and they lived happily in\n a humble home which was in the midst of a large, beautiful val-\n ley. After living many, happy years together, Jacob\'s wife\tdied,\n leaving him alone with only one friend...his daughter Mary. Even\n as a child Mary was uncommonly pretty; but as she grew in years,\n her piety, her innocence, her modesty and her unfeigned kindne ss\n towards all she came in contact with, gave to her beauty a rare\n and peculiar charm. Her face was lighted up with a look of such\n indescribable goodness, that it seemed almost as though one\n looked upon an angel.\n\n Mary\'s greatest delight was the beautiful garden and her favour-\n ite flowers were the violet, the lily and the rose. Jacob loved\n to point to them as emblems of the virtues most becoming to her\n gender. When\tshe once, early in March brought the first violet to\n him and joyfully called upon him to admire it, he said:\n\n Let the modest violet, my dear Mary, be to you an image of humil-\n ity and of the benevolence that does good in secret. It clothes\n itself in the tender colours of modesty; it prefers to bloom in\n retired grots; it fills the air with its fragrance while remain-\n ing hidden beneath the leaves. May you also, my dear Mary, be\n like the retiring violet, avoiding vain display, not seeking to\n attract the public\teye, but preferring ever to do good in\n quietude and peace.\n\n One morning when the roses and lilies were in full bloom and the\n garden appeared in its richest array, Jacob said to his daughter,\n as he pointed out a beautiful lily, which\twas beaming in the\n morning sun:\n\n Let the lily my dear child, be to you the emblem\n of purity. Look how beautiful, how pure and fair it is! The whi-\n test linen is as nothing compared with the purity of its petals:\n they are like the snow. Happy the maiden whose heart is as pure\n and as free from stain. But the purest of all colours is also the\n hardest\n\n\t\t\t\t -5-\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n to preserve pure. Easily is the petal of the lily soiled;\ttouch\n it\tbut carelessly or roughly and a stain is left behind. In the\n same way, a word or a thought may stain the purity of innocence!\n Then pointing to a rose he said:\n\n Let the rose my dear Mary, be to you an emblem of modesty. More\n beautiful than the colour of the rose is the blush that rises to\n the cheek of a modest girl. It is a sign that she is still pure\n of\theart and innocent in thought. Happy is the maiden whom the\n suggestion of a thought that is indelicate, will cause to blush,\n as\tshe is thus put on her guard against the approach of danger.\n The cheeks which readily blush will remain for a long time with\n their roseate hue, while those which fail to blush at the least\n indelicacy of thought will soon become pale and\twan, and go\n before their time to the grave."\n\n\n\n\n Among the many fruit trees that adorned the garden there was one\n that was prized above all the others. It was an apple tree, not\n much larger than a rose bush, and stood by itself in the middle\n of\tthe garden. Mary\'s father had planted it the day that she was\n born and every year it bore a number of beautiful apples. Once it\n blossomed earlier\tthan usual and with unusual luxuriance. The\n tree was one mass of blossom. Mary was so delighted with it that\n she went every morning as soon as she was dressed to look at\n it. Once, when it was in full bloom, she called to her father\n and said:\n\n Look father, how beautiful! Was there ever such a lovely mingling\n of\tred and white? The whole tree looks like one huge bunch of\n flowers!\n\n The next morning she hastened into the garden to feast her eyes\n once more\tupon the tree. But what was her grief to see that the\n frost had nipped it and destroyed all its flowers. They were all\n become brown and\tyellow\tand when the\tsun came forth in its\n strength they withered and fell to the ground. Mary wept bitter\n tears at the sight. Then said the father:\n\n Thus, does sinful pleasure destroy the bloom of youth. Oh my\n child, never cease to remember how dreadful it is to be seduced\n from the path of right! Behold in the example of the apple tree\n an\timage of what would happen if you were to wander from the way\n - if the hopes your conduct hitherto has\traised\tin my\theart\n should vanish, not merely for a day or year, but for life. Ah,\n then how much more bitter would be the tears which I would shed\n over your lapse from virtue than those which now course down your\n cheeks! Life would have no joys for me: with tears in my eyes I\n should\n\n\t\t\t\t -6-\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n go down sorrowfully to my grave.\n\n As he spoke, the tears stood in his eyes; Mary was deeply moved,\n and the words he uttered made so profound an impression upon her\n mind that she never forgot them.\n\n Under the eyes of a father so loving and\twise, and amid the\n flowers of her garden, Mary grew daily in stature and intelli-\n gence - blooming as a rose, pure as a lily and retiring\tas a\n violet, and as full of promise as a tree laden with blossom.\n\n Happy was the old man at all times to behold how plenteously the\n fruits of\this garden rewarded his diligent toil; but with how\n much more happiness and content did he mark the gracious effect\n produced upon the heart and mind of his beloved daughter by his\n pious teaching and example.\n\n Jacob plucked several roses and lilies, tied them together\tin a\n bunch and gave them to Mary with the words:\n\n The lily and the rose, sister flowers as they are, belong the one\n to\tthe other; both incomparable in their beauty, they are ren-\n dered still more lovely by being together. In the\tsame way my\n dear child are innocence and modesty twin sisters of virtue and\n cannot be separated\n\n\n\n\n The greatest and most powerful guardian of purity is the thought\n of the presence of God\n\n-- \nInternet: simon@giaeb.cc.monash.edu.au \nViva Cristo Rey !! Long Live Christ the King.\n',
'Organization: Arizona State University\nFrom: <ICBAL@ASUACAD.BITNET>\nSubject: Re: Depression\nLines: 9\n\n>I do believe that depression can have a dietary component.\n\nDepression can also have various chemical (environmental) components.\nI noticed that I became depressed in various buildings, and at home\nwhen the air conditioning was on. Subsequent testing revealed that\nI was allergic to stemphyllium, a mold commonly found in air conditioners.\nAfter I began taking antigens, that problem disappeared.\n\nBruce L.\n',
"From: ptrei@bistromath.mitre.org (Peter Trei)\nSubject: Re: Athiests and Hell\nOrganization: The MITRE Corporation\nLines: 24\n\nIn article <May.9.05.38.49.1993.27375@athos.rutgers.edu> REXLEX@fnal.fnal.gov writes:\n[much deleted] \n>point today might be the Masons. (Just a note, that they too worshipped \n>Osiris in Egypt...)\n[much deleted] \n\n It bugs me when I see this kind of nonsense.\n\n First, there is no reasonable evidence linking Masonry to ancient\nEgypt, or even that it existed prior to the late 14th century (and\nthere's nothing definitive before the 17th).\n\n Second, worship of Osiris is not, nor has it ever been, a part of\nMasonic practice (we are strictly non-denominational).\n\n>tangents, never ending tangents,\n\n You said it!\n\n>Rex\n\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\tPeter Trei\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\tptrei@mitre.org\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\tEditor: Masonic Digest\n",
'From: dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer)\nSubject: Re: thyroidal deficiency\nOrganization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA\n\nIn article <1993Apr30.162636.22327@cc.ic.ac.uk> ewolff@ps.ic.ac.uk (Erik The Viking) writes:\n>She has been to a doctor and taken the ordinary (?)\n>tests and her values were regarded as low. The doctor (and my wife) are\n>not very interested in starting medication as this "deactivates" the \n>gland, giving life-long dependency to the drug (hormone?).\n\nThis is ridiculous, and your doctor sounds like a nut, if what is\nreported here is what the doctor actually said. If your wife\'s\npancreas stops producing insulin and therefore becomes diabetic, she\'ll\nneed insulin replacement. That doesn\'t mean she\'s "dependent" on\ninsulin, anymore than she was beforehand--if her body doesn\'t make\nenough, she\'ll have to get it elsewhere. Oral thyroid replacement\nhormone therapy is the cornerstone of treatment for hypothyroidism, and\nit\'s really the only effective therapy available anyway. Plus, it\'s\ncheap. Taking thyroid hormone when it isn\'t needed does cause your\nthyroid gland to reduce its own production of the hormone, but that\'s a\n_feature_, not a _bug_, and it\'s irrelevant in any case in the face of\nhypothyroidism, because her problem that her gland isn\'t producing\nenough. There isn\'t a clinical phenomenon of "thyroid insufficiency"\ncaused by a sudden discontinuation of exogenous thyroid hormone\nanalogous to adrenal insufficiency caused by the sudden cessation of\nprolonged administration of corticosteroids, so there should be no\nworry about inappropriately "suppressing" the thyroid gland.\n\n>The last couple of \n>monthes she has been seeing a hoemoepath (sp?) and been given\n>some drops to re-activate either her thyroidal gland and/or the \n>\'message-center\' in the brain (sorry about the approximate language,\n>but I haven\'t got many clues to what the english terms are, but the \n>brain-area is called the \'hypofyse\' in norwegian.) \n\nHomeopathy is nonsense. Tell her to stop wasting her money, health and time,\nand get her to a legitimate doctor who will be in a position to make\na proper diagnosis and recommend the right therapy.\n\n-- \nSteve Dyer\ndyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer\n',
"From: rych@festival.ed.ac.uk (R Hawkes)\nSubject: Re: 3DS: Where did all the texture rules go?\nLines: 34\n\neric.vitiello@tfd.coplex.com (Eric Vitiello) writes:\n\n>TO: rych@festival.ed.ac.uk (R Hawkes)\n\n>RH>I've noticed that if you only save a model (with all your mapping planes\n>RH>positioned carefully) to a .3DS file that when you reload it after restarting\n>RH>3DS, they are given a default position and orientation. But if you save\n>RH>to a .PRJ file their positions/orientation are preserved. Does anyone\n>RH>know why this information is not stored in the .3DS file? Nothing is\n\n> This is because the PRJ (Project) format saves all of your settings,\n> right down to the last render file's name.\n\n>RH>I'd like to be able to read the texture rule information, does anyone have\n>RH>the format for the .PRJ file?\n\n> Sorry... Don't have anything on that or the CEL format.\n\nWell, I dived in feet first and reverse engineered the .PRJ file as much\nas I needed to - extracted the mapping icon information - which is\nwhen it dawned on me that 3D Studio is useless for my needs. I need\na mapping icon per applied texture. I want to use a special purpose\ngraphics computer for rendering the 3DS models and it requires a texture\nrule/plane to be specified in 3Space, i.e. position/orientation of the\nmapping rule. Since only one mapping icon is used in 3DS to apply\ntextures to ALL objects/faces, it renders (no pun intended) 3DS totally\nunsuitable for my needs.\n\nAnyone got a contact for Alias Upfront or any other good modeller for a\nPC? I must be able to specify texture rules (one per texture) and this\nmust be saved in a file which I can read. I haven't found any info on Alias\nin the copy of the faq that I have.\n\nRych\n",
'From: hollasch@kpc.com (Steve Hollasch)\nSubject: Re: Raytracing Colours?\nSummary: Illumination Equations\nOrganization: Kubota Pacific Computer, Inc.\nLines: 44\n\nasecchia@cs.uct.ac.za (Adrian Secchia) writes:\n| When an incident ray (I) strikes an object at point P ... The reflected\n| ray (R) and the transmitted ray (T) is calculated from the formulae.\n| \n| Calling the routine recursively on R and T will return the colours \n| along the rays (R and T) as rCol and tCol. Each object has its own\n| colour oCol and each light source has liCol (1 <= i <= n).\n| \n| The question is: \n| How do you combine rCol, tCol, oCol and all the liCol\'s to get\n| the correct resulting colour to return along the I ray?\n\n First of all (this is NOT a snide response), if you\'re confused about\nthis issue, you will stumble over a lot of other things as well. I suggest\nthat the weakness is your reference material. Get "An Introduction to Ray\nTracing" by Andrew Glassner for very good coverage of the raytracing\nalgorithm. You could also refer to the 2nd edition of Foley & Van Dam.\n\n On to the question. The simple answer is that you just keep adding up\nall the contributions and then clamping at the maximum intensity. For\nexample, if your intensity values range from 0.0 to 1.0, then keep adding up\nand clamp the resultant values to 1.0 (you might have to clamp the lower\nbound to 0.0 if you have dark bulbs, but that\'s another issue =^). So, you\nget some illumination equation like this:\n\n I = Lambient + Ldiffuse(light[n]) + Lreflected + Ltransparent\n\n The contribution due to reflection is just summed with the light\nintensity, as is the light due to transparency. Now, a slightly less\nhand-waving illumination equation is this:\n\n I = KaLa + KdLd(light[n]) + KrLr + KtLt\n\n That is, each component of the illumination equation is governed by the\nmaterial constants Ka, Kd, Kr and Kt. So the maximum you can get from\ntransparency for a given object, for example, might be [0.4, 0.1, 0.5] for a\npurple-colored glass object.\n\n Hopefully this answers your question. I\'ll forward my "illumination\nequation sermon" to you also.\n\n______________________________________________________________________________\nSteve Hollasch Kubota Pacific Computer, Inc.\nhollasch@kpc.com Santa Clara, California\n',
'From: shellgate!llo@uu4.psi.com (Larry L. Overacker)\nSubject: Re: Deuterocanonicals, esp. Sirach\nOrganization: Shell Oil\nLines: 23\n\n>ddavis@cass.ma02.bull.com (Dave Davis)\n>\n>The deutero-canonical books were added much later in the church\'s\n>history. They do not have the same spiritual quality as the\n>rest of Scripture. I do not believe the church that added these\n>books was guided by the Spirit in so doing. And that is where\n>this sort of discussion ultimately ends.\n\nThe Apocryphal books that are in the Septuagint were part of the canon \nused by the Greek-speaking churches from the inception of the church.\nThey were not added later (or much later). This is a common misconception.\n\nThe preference of the Hebrew canon over the Greek canon is a later\ninnovation. The church did not need to be guided to "add" the books\nsince they were part of the faith once received by the apostles and\npassed to the Church.\n\nLarry Overacker (llo@shell.com)\n-- \n-------\nLawrence Overacker\nShell Oil Company, Information Center Houston, TX (713) 245-2965\nllo@shell.com\n',
'From: ningeg@leland.Stanford.EDU (Nick Ingegneri)\nSubject: Ethics regarding placebo/homeopathic "medicines"\nOrganization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA\nLines: 17\n\nI would like to know if their is any medical consensus\n(or consensus within this group) regarding the ethics\nof the following:\n\n 1: Prescription of placebo medications when the patient\n did not specifically request any sort of treatment.\n\n 2: Selling a placebo medication for a profit.\n\n 3: Prescribing homeopathic remedies without advising\n a patient of their "controversial nature".\n\n 4: Representing homeopathic remedies as "over the counter"\n medications.\n\nThanks,\nNick Ingegneri\n',
'From: ttrusk@its.mcw.edu (Thomas Trusk)\nSubject: Re: Krillean Photography\nOrganization: Medical College of Wisconsin\nLines: 22\nReply-To: ttrusk@its.mcw.edu\nNNTP-Posting-Host: pixel.cellbio.mcw.edu\n\n\nIn article <20APR199315574161@vxcrna.cern.ch> filipe@vxcrna.cern.ch (VINCI) writes:\n\n> How about Kirlian imaging ? I believe the FAQ for sci.skeptics (sp?)\n> has a nice write-up on this. They would certainly be most supportive\n> on helping you to build such a device and connect to a 120Kvolt\n> supply so that you can take a serious look at your "aura"... :-)\n>\n> Filipe Santos\n> CERN - European Laboratory for Particle Physics\n> Switzerland\n\nPlease sign the relevant documents and forward the remaining parts\nto our study \'Effect of 120 Kv on Human Tissue wrapped in Film\'.\nThanks for your support...\n*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*==*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=\n*Dr. Thomas Trusk * *\n*Dept. of Cellular Biology & Anatomy * Email to ttrusk@its.mcw.edu *\n*Medical College of Wisconsin * *\n*Milwaukee, WI 53226 DISCLAIMER (ala Foghorn Leghorn):*\n*(414) 257-8504 It\'s a joke, son. A joke I say! *\n*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*==*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=\n',
'From: Vereskova Elena <Vereskova_Elena@p0.f0.n23.z22.zenonet.org>\nSubject: Wanted:MPEG description or sources:encoders+decoders.\nReply-To: Vereskova_Elena@p0.f0.n23.z22.zenonet.org\nOrganization: AsA Trading Company (zenon_gate)\nLines: 7\n\nPlease help with MPEG description or sources:decoders &\nencoders. Great thanks in advance.\n\n\n--- Maximus 2.01wb\n * Origin: Mister Postman BBS (22:23/0)\n\n',
"From: ed@wente.llnl.gov (Ed Suranyi)\nSubject: Re: Asimov stamp\nOrganization: UC Davis Dept of Applied Science at LLNL\nLines: 18\nNNTP-Posting-Host: wente.llnl.gov\n\nIn article <C61H4H.8D4@dcs.ed.ac.uk> pdc@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Paul Crowley) writes:\n>Quoting schnitzi@eustis.cs.ucf.edu (Mark Schnitzius) in article <schnitzi.735603785@eustis>:\n>>I'm sure all the religious types would get in a snit due\n>>to Asimov's atheism.\n\n>Can someone confirm this? Someone told me that Asimov converted to\n>Christianity at some point, or something. Does anyone have any good\n>quotes?\n\nWhat? Absolutely not. No way. Asimov was a lifelong atheist, and\nsaid so many times, right until his death. Judging from the many\nstories he told about his own life, he felt culturally closest to\nJudaism, which makes sense. He was born Jewish.\n\nEd\ned@wente.llnl.gov\n\n\n",
"From: tmc@spartan.ac.BrockU.CA (Tim Ciceran)\nSubject: Re: Turning photographic images into thermal print and/or negatives\nOrganization: Brock University, St. Catharines Ontario\nX-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL9]\nLines: 22\n\nJennifer Lynn Urso (ju23+@andrew.cmu.edu) wrote:\n: \n: well, i have lots of experience with scanning in images and altering\n: them. as for changing them back into negatives, is that really possible?\n\n: (stuff deleted)\n\n: jennifer urso: the oh-so bitter woman of utter blahness(but cheerful\n: undertones)\n\nI use Aldus Photostyler on the PC and I can turn a colour or black and white\nimage into a negative or turn a negative into a colour or black and white\nimage. I don't know how it does it but it works well. To test it I scanned\na negative and used Aldus to create a positive. It looked better than the\nprint that the film developers gave me.\n\n\n-- \n\nTMC\n(tmc@spartan.ac.BrockU.ca)\n\n",
'From: dlecoint@garnet.acns.fsu.edu (Darius A. Lecointe)\nSubject: Christianity and holy things\nOrganization: Florida State University\nLines: 19\n\nEzek 22:26 God seems to be upset with the priests who have made no\ndifference between the holy and the profane. This brought to my mind a\nsermon I heard recently in which the speaker said "God\'s second name does\nnot begin with a D" referring, I believe, to use of God\'s holy name and\ntitles as swear words. I was also reminded of the experience of Moses at\nthe burning bush when God told him "Take off your sandals, for the place\nwhere you are standing is holy ground."\n\nThese and other texts seem to imply that God\'s people must treat holy\nthings differently from other "common" things, or "make a difference"\nbetween holy and common things.\n\nThe obvious questions are \n\nWhat makes something holy? and How are Christians (primarily) supposed to\nmake this difference between holy and common things? (e.g. God\'s name,\nthe Holy Spirit, the Holy Bible, etc.)\n\nDarius\n',
"From: thssstb@iitmax.iit.edu (Stephen T Bacon)\nSubject: RE: 48 bit graphics...\nOrganization: Illinois Institute of Technology / Academic Computing Center\nLines: 18\n\n\nA good reason (which is why many companies use it) for 48 bits / pixel\nis so you can use double buffering (for animating scenes) - i.e. you have\n2 * 24-bit planes. You write to the one in the background, and then FLIP! \n-- the entire screen updates to the second image-plane. The screen updates \nin one refresh and you don't see different objects appearing in the order \nthat they're drawn (as in the CAD/MacDraw effect). Now your ready to update \nthe image that used to be in the foreground.\n\nSteve. (thssstb@iitmax.iit.edu / iris.iit.edu)\n\nAbout the SG product line: who can even keep track nowadays? Every co. seems\nto (as their ads / press releases claim) redefine computing (etc. etc.) as\nwe know it with each new product. Progress and competition are great, but who\nwants to invest in a system that's obsolete by the time it reaches your desk?\n:-)\n\n\n",
'From: aad@scr.siemens.com (Anthony A. Datri)\nSubject: Re: Oh make up your mind!! (was: Re: XV problems)\nNntp-Posting-Host: lovecraft.siemens.com\nOrganization: Siemens Weyland-Yutani\nLines: 11\n\n> a) XV can Load a 24 bit image, and display it in all it\'s\n>24 bit glory on 24 bit X displays.\n> b) All other operations (Crop, Dither, Smooth, etc.) are not\n>supported on 24 bit images.\n\n>how hard would this be?\n\nNot very -- you just type "xloadimage" or "getx11" instead of "xv".\n-- \n\n======================================================================8--<\n',
'From: ewolff@ps.ic.ac.uk (Erik The Viking)\nSubject: thyroidal deficiency\nOrganization: Imperial College Computer Centre\nLines: 31\nNntp-Posting-Host: sungx2.ps\n\nHi.\n\nMy wife has aquired some thyroidal (sp?) deficiency over the past year\nthat gives symptoms such as needing much sleep, coldness and proneness\nto gaining weight. She has been to a doctor and taken the ordinary (?)\ntests and her values were regarded as low. The doctor (and my wife) are\nnot very interested in starting medication as this "deactivates" the \ngland, giving life-long dependency to the drug (hormone?). The last couple of \nmonthes she has been seeing a hoemoepath (sp?) and been given\nsome drops to re-activate either her thyroidal gland and/or the \n\'message-center\' in the brain (sorry about the approximate language,\nbut I haven\'t got many clues to what the english terms are, but the \nbrain-area is called the \'hypofyse\' in norwegian.) \n\nMy questions are: has anyone had/heard of success in using this approach?\nHer values have been (slowly but) steadily sinking, any comment on the\nprobability of improvement? Although the doctor has told her to \'eat\nnormally\', my wife has dieted vigorously to keep her weight as she feels\nthat is part of keeping an edge over the illness/condition, may this\naffect the treatment, development?\n\nI can get the exact figures for her tests for anyone interested, and I\nwill greatly value any information/opinion/experience on this topic.\n\nI don\'t intend this post to be either a flaming of the established\nmedical profession or a praise for alternatives, I am just relaying\nevents as they have happened.\n\nSincerely,\n\nErik A. Wolff\n',
'From: balsamo@stargl.enet.dec.com (Antonio L. Balsamo (Save the wails))\nSubject: Re: hate the sin...\nReply-To: balsamo@stargl.enet.dec.com (Antonio L. Balsamo (Save the wails))\nOrganization: Digital Equipment Corporation\nLines: 84\n\n\n >From: scott@prism.gatech.edu (Scott Holt)\n >Subject: hate the sin...\n >Date: 12 May 93 08:27:08 GMT\n\n >"Hate the sin but love the sinner"...I\'ve heard that quite a bit recently,\n >My question is whether that statement is consistent with Christianity. I\n >would think not. Hate begets more hate, never love.\n\n If you are questioning whether or not "hating sin" is consistent with\n Christianity; I ask you to consider the following Scripture:\n\n Romans 12:9 "Let Love be without hypocrisy. Hate what is evil, cling\n to what is good."\n\n What is it that Paul, through the inspiration of the Holy Spirit is\n calling us to hate? Would God call us to do something that would\n eventually lead to hating our fellow man; especially when he commands us to\n do the opposite, to love your fellow man?\n\n >Consider some sin. Now lets apply our "hate the sin..." philosophy and see\n >what happens. If we truly hate the sin, then the more we see it, the\n >stronger our hatred of it will become. Eventually this hate becomes so\n >strong that we become disgusted with the sinner and eventually come to\n >hate the sinner.\n\n That has not been my experience. I\'ve not found myself hating anybody\n as a result of hating the sin that may be in their life. As a sinner\n myself, I find myself having more compassion for the person. Jesus too,\n since the Bible teaches that he was tempted in every way that we are, is\n able to have compassion on us when we our tempted and fall. Jesus is our\n very example of HOW to hate the sin but love the sinner. In the account of\n the woman caught in adultery (John 8), Jesus had compassion on the woman;\n BUT he also called her to leave her life of sin. This is what it means to\n love sinners but hate their sin; it means loving them unconditionally,\n while at the same time calling them to leave their sin.\n\n >In addition, our hatred of the sin often causes us to say and do things\n >which are taken personally by the sinner (who often does not even believe\n >what they are doing is a sin).\n\n The blame for this can not always be laid at the feet of the\n Christian. I have seen and been guilty of taking offense by someone merely\n pointing out my sin and calling me to repent of it. It was not unloving\n for the Christian to call me out of sin; in fact, I believe it was the most\n loving thing that that person could have done. He loved me enough to want\n to spare me the consequence of remaining in my sin.\n\n >After enough of this, the sinner begins to hate us (they certainly don\'t\n >love us for our constant criticism of their behavior). Hate builds up and\n >drives people away from God...this certainly cannot be a good way to build\n >love.\n\n Again, I don\'t think that you can lay the blame for this at the feet of\n the Christian. If we have loved them as Jesus loved sinners (exemplified\n in John 8) and the sinner hates us for it, then we have done the best we\n can. We will have extended to them the most perfect expression of love and\n they will have rejected it.\n\n Now it we hate the sin but forget to love the sinner, then indeed, we\n will, ourselves, be in sin.\n\n >In the summary of the law, Christ commands us to love God and to love our\n >neighbors. He doesn\'t say anything about hate.\n\n I would like to encourage you to do a word study on HATE in the New\n Testament. I really think that you will be surprised.\n\n >In fact, if anything, he commands us to save our criticisms for ourselves.\n\n Criticism is very different from calling a sinner to repent.\n\n Hope this helps,\n In Christ,\n Tony Balsamo\n--\n\n +--------------------------------------------------+\n | Name: Antonio L. Balsamo /_/\\/\\ |\n |Company: Digital Equipment Corp. \\_\\ / |\n | Shrewsbury, Mass. /_/ \\ |\n | Work #: (508) 841-2039 \\_\\/\\ \\ |\n | E-mail: balsamo@stargl.enet.dec.com \\_\\/ |\n +--------------------------------------------------+\n',
"From: jim.zisfein@factory.com (Jim Zisfein) \nSubject: Data of skull\nDistribution: world\nOrganization: Invention Factory's BBS - New York City, NY - 212-274-8298v.32bis\nReply-To: jim.zisfein@factory.com (Jim Zisfein) \nLines: 11\n\nGT> From: gary@concave.cs.wits.ac.za (Gary Taylor)\nGT> Hi, We are trying to develop a image reconstruction simulation for the skull\n\nYou could do high resolution CT (computed tomographic) scanning of\nthe skull. Many CT scanners have an algorithm to do 3-D\nreconstructions in any plane you want. If you did reconstructions\nevery 2 degrees or so in all planes, you could use the resultant\nimages to create user-controlled animation.\n---\n . SLMR 2.1 . E-mail: jim.zisfein@factory.com (Jim Zisfein)\n \n",
'From: kkt@philabs.philips.com (Kim-Kiat Tan)\nSubject: Autodesk BBS ?\nOrganization: Philips Laboratories, Briarcliff, New York\nLines: 7\n\n\tDoes Autodesk has a BBS ?\n\n-- \n\n\n\n\n',
"From: Alan.Olsen@p17.f40.n105.z1.fidonet.org (Alan Olsen)\nSubject: Albert Sabin\nLines: 41\n\n\nBR> From: wpr@atlanta.dg.com (Bill Rawlins)\nBR> Newsgroups: alt.atheism\nBR> Organization: DGSID, Atlanta, GA\n\nBR> The problem is that most scientists exclude the\nBR> possibility of the supernatural in the question of\nBR> origins. Is this is a fair premise? I utterly\nBR> reject the hypothesis that science is the highest form of \nBR> truth.\n\nIt is better than the crap that the creationists put out. So far all they\nhave been able to manage is distortions and half-truths. (When they are not\ntaking quotes out of context...)\n\nBR> Some of these so-called human-like creatures were\nBR> apes. Some were humans. Some were fancifully\nBR> reconstructed from fragments. \n\nThe genetic code has shown more about how man is realted to primates that the\nfossil record. (A little detail the creationists try and ignore.)\n\nBR> Good deeds do not justify a person in God's\nBR> sight. An atonement (Jesus) is needed to atone\nBR> for sin.\n\nWho says? Your Bible(tm)?\tI would be surprised if *ANY* Christian followed\nall of the rules in the Bible. (Most of them just pick and choose, according\nto the local biases.)\n\nBR> My point: God is the creator. Look's like we agree.\n\nWhere is your proof? How do you know it was *YOUR* God?\n\nBR> I'll send you some info via e-mail.\nBR> Regards, Bill.\n\nWhy not post them?\tI would be interested in seeing them myself.\n\n Alan\n\n",
"From: grante@aquarius.rosemount.com (Grant Edwards)\nSubject: Re: Krillean Photography\nNntp-Posting-Host: aquarius\nReply-To: grante@aquarius.rosemount.com (Grant Edwards)\nOrganization: Rosemount, Inc.\nLines: 15\n\nttrusk@its.mcw.edu (Thomas Trusk) writes:\n: \n: BUT, to say you're an atheist is to suggest you have PROOF there is NO GOD.\n: To be a politically-correct skeptic, better to go with agnostic, like me! :)\n:\n\nAs a self-proclaimed atheist my position is that I _believe_ that there is\nno god. I don't claim to have any proof. I interpret the agnostic position \nas having no beliefs about god's existence.\n\n--\nGrant Edwards |Yow! Are we THERE yet? My\nRosemount Inc. |MIND is a SUBMARINE!!\n |\ngrante@aquarius.rosemount.com |\n",
'From: acooper@mac.cc.macalstr.edu (Turin Turambar, ME Department of Utter Misery)\nSubject: Re: free moral agency\nDistribution: world\nOrganization: Macalester College\nLines: 19\n\nIn article <735295730.25282@minster.york.ac.uk>, cjhs@minster.york.ac.uk writes:\n> : Are you saying that their was a physical Adam and Eve, and that all\n> : humans are direct decendents of only these two human beings.? Then who\n> : were Cain and Able\'s wives? Couldn\'t be their sisters, because A&E\n> : didn\'t have daughters. Were they non-humans?\n> \n> Genesis 5:4\n> \n> and the days of Adam after he begat Seth were eight hundred years, and\n> he begat sons and daughters:\n> \n> Felicitations -- Chris Ho-Stuart\n\n\nIt is still incestuous.... :)\n\n\n\n--Adam "What happened to my sig?" Cooper\n',
'From: jhpark@cs.utexas.edu (Jihun Park)\nSubject: POVray : tga -> rle\nOrganization: CS Dept, University of Texas at Austin\nLines: 25\nNNTP-Posting-Host: pageboy.cs.utexas.edu\n\nHello,\nI have some problem in converting tga file(generated by POVray) to\nrle file. When I convert, I do not get any warning message. But\nif I use xloadimage/getx11, something is wrong.\n\nError messages are,\n% targatorle -o o.rle data.tga\n% xloadimage o.rle\no.rle is a 0x0 24 bit RLE image with no map (will dither to 8 bits), with gamma of 1.00\n Dithering image...done\n Building XImage...done\nxloadimage: X Error: BadValue (integer parameter out of range for operation) on 0x0\nxloadimage: X Error: BadWindow (invalid Window parameter) on 0xb00003\n......\n\nI know that I need to install ppmtorle and tgatoppm, but I do not spend\ntime to install them. Even I do not want to generate .rgb from POVray\nand then convert them to rle, if possible.(.rgb to rle works, but\nit will mess up my directory with so many files, and it needs 2 more\nsteps to finally convert to rle file. say cat | rawtorle | rleflip )\nDoes any body out there have same experience/problems ?\n\nThanks in advance,\n---\nJ. Park\n',
"From: dts@buoy.cis.ufl.edu (Dave Small)\nSubject: WANTED: references on parallel algorithms\nOrganization: TiGrrs_R_Us\nLines: 16\nDistribution: world\nNNTP-Posting-Host: buoy.cis.ufl.edu\nKeywords: parallel algorithms, octrees, adaptive subdivision, meshing, finite\n\nelement analysis, radiosity, distributed processing\n\nHi,\n\n\tI'm looking for references to parallel algorithms on:\n\n\t\toctrees\n\t\tadaptive subdivision\n\t\tadaptive meshing\n\t\tfinite element meshing/analysis\n\t\tradiosity\n\n\tAny help will be greatly appreciated. E-mail replies to\x18\n\n\t\t\tDave Small\n\t\t\tdts@cis.ufl.edu\n",
'From: Eugene.Bigelow@ebay.sun.com (Geno )\nSubject: Re: The doctrine of Original Sin\nReply-To: Eugene.Bigelow@ebay.sun.com\nOrganization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.\nLines: 10\n\nJoseph H. Buehler writes:\n\n>This all obviously applies equally well to infants or adults, since\n>both have souls. Infants must be baptized, therefore, or they cannot\n>enter into Heaven. They too need this form of life in them, or they\n>cannot enter into Heaven.\n\nAre you saying that baptism has nothing to do with asking Jesus to come into\nyour heart and accepting him as your savior, but is just a ritual that we\nmust go through to enable us to enter Heaven?\n',
'From: david@stat.com (David Dodell)\nSubject: HICN611 Medical News Part 3/4\nReply-To: david@stat.com (David Dodell)\nDistribution: world\nOrganization: Stat Gateway Service, WB7TPY\nLines: 707\n\n------------- cut here -----------------\n \n ONCE A YEAR...FOR A LIFETIME VIDEO KIT. This kit\n includes a 25-minute VHS videotape that presents common\n misconceptions about mammography. It tells of the\n benefits gains by the early detection of breast cancer.\n Jane Pauley and Phylicia Rashad are the narrators. Kit\n includes a guide, poster, flyer, and pamphlets on\n mammography. This kit is available directly by writing\n to: Modern, 5000 Park Street North, St. Petersburg, FL\n 33709-9989.\n \n \n \nADDITIONAL RESOURCES\n \n \n COMBINED HEALTH INFORMATION DATABASE (CHID). A computerized\n bibliographic database developed and managed by agencies of\n the U.S. Public Health Service. It contains references to\n health information and health education resources. The\n database provides bibliographic citations and abstracts for\n journal articles, books, reports, pamphlets, audiovisuals,\n product descriptions, hard-to-find information sources, and\n health promotion and education programs under way in state\n and local health departments and other locations. In\n addition, CHID provides source and availability information\n for these materials, so that users may obtain them directly.\n \n At present, there are twenty-one subfiles on CHID. The\n National Cancer Institute created the Cancer Patient\n Education subfile in 1990. It serves as a resource for the\n CHID user who is interested in identifying patient education\n programs for specific cancer patient populations, as well as\n for the user who is trying to locate educational resources\n available for patient or family cancer education. Citations\n include the contact person at cancer centers, so the user\n can follow up directly with the appropriate person.\n \n To access CHID, check with your local library. Most medical\n school, university, hospital, and public libraries subscribe\n to commercial database vendors.\n\nHICNet Medical Newsletter Page 28\nVolume 6, Number 11 April 25, 1993\n\n \n FINAL REPORT: AN INTEGRATED ONCOLOGY WORKSTATION (revised\n 5/92). This book provides a conceptual overview of what a\n clinical information system for practicing oncologists might\n include: a database of electronic patient chart records\n combined with access to a knowledge base of information\n resources such as PDQ, CANCERLIT, and MEDLINE--an\n integration of data and knowledge combined to create a\n clinical "oncology workstation." The concept was developed\n as a means to assist the oncologist and his or her office\n staff in the daily management of patient care and clinical\n trials. This book can be obtained by contacting: Dr.\n Robert Esterhay, Project Officer, Computer Communications\n Branch, Building 82, Room 201, Bethesda, MD 20892.\n \n SCIENTIFIC INFORMATION SERVICES OF THE NATIONAL CANCER\n INSTITUTE. (91-2683). This booklet from the International\n Cancer Information Center (ICIC) describes each ICIC product\n or service, including scientific journals (Journal of the\n National Cancer Institute and NCI Monographs), specialized\n current awareness publications (CANCERGRAMS, and ONCOLOGY\n OVERVIEWS), and online databases (PDQ and CANCERLIT). To\n obtain copies of the booklet, write to: International Cancer\n Information Center, Dept. JJJ, National Cancer Institute,\n Bldg. 82, Rm. 123, Bethesda, Maryland 20892 or fax your\n request to 301-480-8105.\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\nHICNet Medical Newsletter Page 29\nVolume 6, Number 11 April 25, 1993\n\n Publications for Patients Available from the NCI (1/93)\n \nFree copies of the following patient education materials are available (in \nsingle copy or bulk) by calling the NCI\'s Publication Ordering Service, 1-800-\n4-CANCER. \n \n \nCANCER PREVENTION\n \n CHEW OR SNUFF IS REAL BAD STUFF. This brochure, designed\nfor seventh and eighth graders, describes the health and social\neffects of using smokeless tobacco products. When fully opened,\nthe brochure can be used as a poster.\n \n CLEARING THE AIR: A GUIDE TO QUITTING SMOKING. This\npamphlet, designed to help the smoker who wants to quit, offers a\nvariety of approaches to cessation. [24 pages]\n \n DIET, NUTRITION & CANCER PREVENTION: THE GOOD NEWS. This\nbooklet provides an overview of dietary guidelines that may\nassist individuals in reducing their risks for some cancers. It\nidentifies certain foods to choose more often and others to\nchoose less often in the context of a total health-promoting\ndiet. [16 pages]\n \n WHY DO YOU SMOKE? This pamphlet contains a self-test to\ndetermine why people smoke and suggests alternatives and\nsubstitutes that can help them stop.\n \n \nEARLY DETECTION\n \n \n BREAST EXAMS: WHAT YOU SHOULD KNOW. This pamphlet provides\nanswers to questions about breast cancer screening methods,\nincluding mammography, the medical checkup, breast self-\nexamination, and future technologies. Includes instructions for\nbreast self-examination. [10 pages]\n \n CANCER TESTS YOU SHOULD KNOW ABOUT: A GUIDE FOR PEOPLE 65\nAND OVER. This pamphlet describes the cancer tests important for\npeople age 65 and older. It informs men and women of the exams\nthey should be requesting when they schedule checkups with their\ndoctors. It provides a checklist for men and women to record\nwhen the cancer tests occur, and it describes the steps to follow\n\nHICNet Medical Newsletter Page 30\nVolume 6, Number 11 April 25, 1993\n\nshould cancer be found. [14 pages]\n \n DO THE RIGHT THING: GET A MAMMOGRAM. This brochure targets\nblack women age 40 or older. It describes the importance of\nregular mammograms in the early detection of breast cancer. It\nstates the NCI guidelines for mammography.\n \n ONCE A YEAR FOR A LIFETIME. This brochure targets all women\nage 40 or older. It describes the importance of regular\nmammograms in the early detection of breast cancer. It states\nthe NCI guidelines for mammography.\n \n QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS ABOUT BREAST LUMPS. This pamphlet\ndescribes some of the most common noncancerous breast lumps and\nwhat can be done about them. Includes instructions for breast\nself-examination. [22 pages]\n \n QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS ABOUT CHOOSING A MAMMOGRAPHY FACILITY.\nThis brochure lists questions to ask in selecting a quality\nmammography facility. Also discusses typical costs and coverage.\n \n TESTICULAR SELF-EXAMINATION. This pamphlet contains\ninformation about risks and symptoms of testicular cancer and\nprovides instructions on how to perform testicular self-\nexamination.\n \n THE PAP TEST: IT CAN SAVE YOUR LIFE! This easy-to-read\npamphlet tells women the importance of getting a Pap test. It\nexplains who should request one, how often it should be done, and\nwhere to go to get a Pap test.\n \n \nGENERAL\n \n \n RESEARCH REPORTS. In-depth reports covering current\nknowledge of the causes and prevention, symptoms, detection and\ndiagnosis, and treatment of various types of cancer. Individual\nreports are available on the following topics:\n \n Bone Marrow Transplantation\n Cancer of the Colon and Rectum\n Cancer of the Lung\n Cancer of the Pancreas\n Melanoma\n\nHICNet Medical Newsletter Page 31\nVolume 6, Number 11 April 25, 1993\n\n Oral Cancers\n \n THE IMMUNE SYSTEM - HOW IT WORKS. This booklet, written at\na high school level, explains the human immune system for the\ngeneral public. It describes the sophistication of the body\'s\nimmune responses, the impact of immune disorders, and the\nrelation of the immune system to cancer therapies present and\nfuture. [28 pages]\n \n \n WHAT YOU NEED TO KNOW ABOUT CANCER. This series of\npamphlets discusses symptoms, diagnosis, treatment, emotional\nissues, and questions to ask the doctor. Includes glossary of\nterms and other resources. Individual pamphlets are available on\nthe following topics:\n \n Bladder\n Bone\n Brain\n Breast\n Cervix\n Colon and Rectum\n Dysplastic Nevi\n Esophagus\n Hodgkin\'s Disease\n Kidney\n Larynx\n Lung\n Melanoma\n Multiple Myeloma\n Non-Hodgkin\'s Lymphoma\n Oral Cancers\n Ovary\n Pancreas\n Prostate\n Skin\n Testis\n Uterus\n \n \nPATIENT EDUCATION\n \n ANTICANCER DRUG INFORMATION SHEETS IN SPANISH/ENGLISH. Two-\nsided fact sheets (in English and Spanish) provide information\nabout side effects of common drugs used to treat cancer, their\n\nHICNet Medical Newsletter Page 32\nVolume 6, Number 11 April 25, 1993\n\nproper usage, and precautions for patients. The fact sheets were\nprepared by the United States Pharmacopeial Convention, Inc., for\ndistribution by the National Cancer Institute. Single sets only\nmay be ordered.\n \n ADVANCED CANCER: LIVING EACH DAY. This booklet addresses\ncoping with a terminal illness by discussing practical\nconsiderations for the patient, the family, and friends. [30\npages]\n \n CHEMOTHERAPY AND YOU: A GUIDE TO SELF-HELP DURING\nTREATMENT. This booklet, in question-and-answer format, addresses\nproblems and concerns of patients receiving chemotherapy.\nEmphasis is on explanation and self-help. [64 pages]\n \n EATING HINTS: RECIPES AND TIPS FOR BETTER NUTRITION DURING\nCANCER TREATMENT. This cookbook-style booklet includes recipes\nand suggestions for maintaining optimum nutrition during\ntreatment. All recipes have been tested. [92 pages]\n \n FACING FORWARD: A GUIDE FOR CANCER SURVIVORS. This booklet\npresents a concise overview of important survivor issues,\nincluding ongoing health needs, psychosocial concerns, insurance,\nand employment. Easy-to-use format includes cancer survivors\'\nexperiences, practical tips, recordkeeping forms, and resources.\nIt is recommended for cancer survivors, their family, and\nfriends. [43 pages]\n \n PATIENT TO PATIENT: CANCER CLINICAL TRIALS AND YOU. This\n15-minute videocassette provides simple information for patients\nand families about the clinical trials process (produced in\ncollaboration with the American College of Surgeons Commission on\nCancer).\n \n QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS ABOUT PAIN CONTROL: A GUIDE FOR\nPEOPLE WITH CANCER AND THEIR FAMILIES. This booklet discusses\npain control using both medical and nonmedical methods. The\nemphasis is on explanation, self-help, and patient participation.\nThis booklet is also available from the American Cancer Society.\n[44 pages]\n \n RADIATION THERAPY AND YOU: A GUIDE TO SELF-HELP DURING\nTREATMENT. This booklet addresses concerns of patients receiving\nforms of radiation therapy. Emphasis is on explanation and\nself-help. [52 pages]\n\nHICNet Medical Newsletter Page 33\nVolume 6, Number 11 April 25, 1993\n\n \n TAKING TIME: SUPPORT FOR PEOPLE WITH CANCER AND THE PEOPLE\nWHO CARE ABOUT THEM. This sensitively written booklet for\npersons with cancer and their families addresses the feelings and\nconcerns of others in similar situations and how they have coped.\n[68 pages]\n \n WHAT ARE CLINICAL TRIALS ALL ABOUT? This booklet is\ndesigned for patients who are considering taking part in research\nfor new cancer treatments. It explains clinical trials to\npatients in easy-to-understand terms and gives them information\nthat will help them decide about participating. [24 pages]\n \n WHEN CANCER RECURS: MEETING THE CHALLENGE AGAIN. This\nbooklet details the different types of recurrence, types of\ntreatment, and coping with cancer\'s return. [28 pages]\n \n \nBREAST CANCER EDUCATION SERIES\n \n BREAST BIOPSY: WHAT YOU SHOULD KNOW. This booklet\n discusses biopsy procedures. It describes what to expect in\n the hospital and while awaiting a diagnosis. [16 pages]\n \n BREAST CANCER: UNDERSTANDING TREATMENT OPTIONS. This\n booklet summarizes the biopsy procedure and examines the\n pros and cons of various types of breast surgery. It\n discusses lumpectomy and radiation therapy as primary\n treatment, adjuvant therapy, and the process of making\n treatment decisions. [19 pages]\n \n MASTECTOMY: A TREATMENT FOR BREAST CANCER. This booklet\n presents information about the different types of breast\n surgery. It explains what to expect in the hospital and\n during the recovery period following breast cancer surgery.\n Breast self-examination for mastectomy patients is also\n described. [25 pages]\n \n AFTER BREAST CANCER: A GUIDE TO FOLLOWUP CARE. This\n booklet is for the woman who has completed treatment. It\n explains the importance of checking for possible signs of\n recurring cancer by receiving regular mammograms, getting\n breast exams from a doctor, and continuing monthly breast\n self-exams. It offers advice for managing the physical and\n emotional side effects that may accompany surviving breast\n\nHICNet Medical Newsletter Page 34\nVolume 6, Number 11 April 25, 1993\n\n cancer. [15 pages]\n \n PEDIATRIC CANCER EDUCATION SERIES\n \n HELP YOURSELF: TIPS FOR TEENAGERS WITH CANCER. This\n magazine-style booklet is designed to provide information\n and support to adolescents with cancer. Issues addressed\n include reactions to diagnosis, relationships with family\n and friends, school attendance, and body image. [37 pages]\n \n HOSPITAL DAYS, TREATMENT WAYS. This hematology-oncology\n coloring book helps orient the child with cancer to hospital\n and treatment procedures. [26 pages]\n \n MANAGING YOUR CHILD\'S EATING PROBLEMS DURING CANCER\n TREATMENT. This booklet contains information about the\n importance of nutrition, the side effects of cancer and its\n treatment, ways to encourage a child to eat, and special\n diets. [32 pages]\n \n TALKING WITH YOUR CHILD ABOUT CANCER. This booklet is\n designed for the parent whose child has been diagnosed with\n cancer. It addresses the health-related concerns of young\n people of different ages; it suggests ways to discuss\n disease-related issues with the child. [16 pages]\n \n WHEN SOMEONE IN YOUR FAMILY HAS CANCER. This booklet is\n written for young people whose parent or sibling has cancer.\n It includes sections on the disease, its treatment, and\n emotional concerns. [28 pages]\n \n YOUNG PEOPLE WITH CANCER: A HANDBOOK FOR PARENTS.\n This booklet discusses the most common types of childhood\n cancer, treatments and side effects, and issues that may\n arise when a child is diagnosed with cancer. Offers medical\n information and practical tips gathered from the experience\n of others. [86 pages]\n \n \nSPANISH LANGUAGE PUBLICATIONS\n \nSi desea hablar con un especialista en informacion sobre el\ncancer, por favor llame al 1-800-422-6237 (1-800-4-CANCER).\n \nCANCER PREVENTION\n\nHICNet Medical Newsletter Page 35\nVolume 6, Number 11 April 25, 1993\n\n \n A TIME OF CHANGE/DE NINA A MUJER. This bilingual fotonovela\n was developed specifically for young women. It discusses\n various health promotion issues such as nutrition, no\n smoking, exercise, and pelvic, Pap, and breast examinations.\n [34 pages]\n \n DATOS SOBRE EL HABITO DE FUMAR Y RECOMENDACIONES PARA DEJAR\n DE FUMAR. This bilingual pamphlet describes the health\n risks of smoking and tips on how to quit and how to stay\n quit. [8 pages]\n \n GUIA PARA DEJAR DE FUMAR. This booklet is a full-color,\n self-help smoking cessation booklet prepared specifically\n for Spanish-speaking Americans. It was developed by the\n University of California, San Francisco, under an NCI\n research grant. [36 pages]\n \n \nEARLY DETECTION\n \n HAGASE LA PRUEBA PAP: HAGALO HOY...POR SU SALUD Y SU\n FAMILIA. This bilingual brochure tells women why it is\n important to get a Pap test. It gives brief, clear\n information about who needs a Pap test, where to go to get\n one, and how often the Pap test should be done.\n \n HAGASE UN MAMOGRAMA: UNA VEZ AL ANO...PARA TODA UNA VIDA.\n This bilingual brochure describes the importance of\n mammograms in the early detection of breast cancer. It\n gives brief information about who is at risk for breast\n cancer, how a mammogram is done, and how to get one.\n \n LA PRUEBA PAP: UN METODO PARA DIAGNOSTICAR CANCER DEL CUELLO\n DEL UTERO. This booklet in Spanish answers questions about\n the Pap test, including how often it should be done,\n significance of results, and other diagnostic tests and\n treatments. [16 pages]\n \n LO QUE USTED DEBE SABER SOBRE LOS EXAMENES DE LOS SENOS.\n This booklet in Spanish explains the importance of the three\n actions recommended by the NCI to detect breast cancer as\n early as possible: requesting regular mammography, getting\n an annual breast exam from the doctor, and performing a\n monthly breast self-exam. [6 pages]\n\nHICNet Medical Newsletter Page 36\nVolume 6, Number 11 April 25, 1993\n\n \n PREGUNTAS Y RESPUESTAS SOBRE LA SELECCION DE UN CENTRO DE\n MAMOGRAFIA. This brochure lists questions and answers to\n ask in selecting a quality mammography facility.\n \nPATIENT EDUCATION\n \n ANTICANCER DRUG INFORMATION SHEETS IN SPANISH/ENGLISH. Two-\n sided fact sheets (in English and Spanish) provide\n information about side effects of common drugs used to treat\n cancer, their proper usage, and precautions for patients.\n The fact sheets were prepared by the United States\n Pharmacopeial Convention, Inc., for distribution by the\n National Cancer Institute. Single sets only may be ordered.\n \n DATOS SOBRE EL TRATAMIENTO DE QUIMIOTERAPIA CONTRA EL\n CANCER. This flyer in Spanish provides a brief introduction\n to cancer chemotherapy. [12 pages]\n \n EL TRATAMIENTO DE RADIOTERAPIA: GUIA PARA EL PACIENTE\n DURANTE EL TRATAMIENTO. This booklet in Spanish addresses\n the concerns of patients receiving radiation therapy for\n cancer. Emphasis is on explanation and self-help. [48\n pages]\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\nHICNet Medical Newsletter Page 37\nVolume 6, Number 11 April 25, 1993\n\n\n\n::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::\n AIDS News Summaries\n::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::\n\n AIDS Daily Summary for April 19 to April 23, 1993 \n\n The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) National AIDS \nClearinghouse makes available the following information as a public service \nonly. Providing this information does not constitute endorsement by the CDC, \nthe CDC Clearinghouse, or any other organization. Reproduction of this text \nis encouraged; however, copies may not be sold. Copyright 1993, Information, \nInc., Bethesda, MD \n\n ================================================================= \n April 19, 1993 \n ================================================================= \n "Absence of HIV Transmission From an Infected Orthopedic Surgeon" Journal of \nthe American Medical Association (04/14/93) Vol. 269, No. 14, P. 1807 (von \nReyn, C. Fordham) \n\n The risk of HIV transmission from an HIV-positive surgeon to patient is \nextremely low, provided that the surgeon strictly adheres to universal \ninfection control procedures, write C. Fordham von Reyn et al. of the \nDartmouth-Hitchcock Medical Center in Lebanon, N.H. The researchers contacted \n2,317 former patients on whom an HIV-positive orthopedic surgeon performed \ninvasive procedures between January 1, 1978 and June 30, 1992. The \northopedic surgeon voluntarily withdrew from practice after testing positive \nfor HIV. A total of 1,174 former patients underwent HIV testing, \nrepresenting 50.7 percent of patients on whom the orthopedic surgeon \nperformed invasive procedures during the 13.5-year period. Patients were \ntested from each year and from each category of invasive procedure. All \npatients were found to be negative for HIV by enzyme-linked-immunosorbent \nassay. Two former patients reported known HIV infection prior to surgery. \nThe examination of AIDS case registries and vital records neglected to detect \ncases of HIV infection among former surgical patients. The estimated cost of \nthe initial patient notification and testing was $158,000, with the single \nmost expensive activity being counseling and testing. This accounted for 37 \npercent of the total expense. The patient notification and testing were \nconducted while maintaining the confidentiality of the orthopedic surgeon who \nwas an active participant in the planning and execution of the study. \nNotifying patients of the infected surgeon\'s HIV-status is both disruptive \nand expensive and is not routinely recommended, the researchers conclude. \\ \n ================================================================= \n"Investigation of Potential HIV Transmission to the Patients of an HIV-\nInfected Surgeon" Journal of the American Medical Association (04/14/93) Vol. \n\nHICNet Medical Newsletter Page 38\nVolume 6, Number 11 April 25, 1993\n\n269, No. 14, P. 1795 (Smith Rogers, Audrey et al.) \n\n The risk of HIV transmission during surgery is so remote that it will be \nquantified only by gathering data from multiple, methodologically similar \ninvestigations, writes Audrey Smith Rogers et al. of the Johns Hopkins \nUniversity School of Medicine in Baltimore, Md. The researchers identified a \ntotal of 1,131 persons in hospital databases who underwent invasive surgical \nprocedures between 1984 and 1990 and for whom the HIV-positive surgeon was \nlisted as the operating surgeon. The AIDS case registries were reviewed for \nall patients having undergone invasive procedures and death certificates were \nobtained. Among the 1,131 patients, 101 were dead, 119 had no address, 413 \nhad test results known, and 498 did not respond to the questionnaire. No \nstudy patient name was found in reported AIDS case registries. One newly \ndetected, HIV-positive patient was determined to have been most probably \ninfected in 1985 during a transfusion. There was no HIV transmission in 369 \nperson-hours of surgical exposure, suggesting that HIV transmission to \npatients is unlikely to occur more frequently than once per 1000 person-hours \nof surgical exposure. The researchers determined there is no evidence to \nsuggest that the surgeon failed to adhere to standard infection-control \nguidelines; over 50 percent of the patients with invasive procedures chose to \nbe tested, and of those whose results were revealed, only one person was \nfound to be infected with HIV. The study patient\'s infection was probably \nthe result of a tainted blood transfusion received in 1985. As a result, \nthere is no evidence that the transmission of HIV from the HIV-positive \nsurgeon to any patient transpired, the researchers conclude. \n ==================================================================\n April 20, 1993 \n ==================================================================\n "Drug Concerns to Share AIDS Data" New York Times (04/20/93), P. C10 \n(Kolata, Gina) \n\n A total of 15 major pharmaceutical companies have decided, in a highly \nunusual move, to share AIDS drugs and information while the drugs are \nundergoing early clinical testing. Dr. Edward Scolnick, president of the \nMerck Research Laboratory in Rahway, N.J., arranged the collaboration. He \nsaid that cooperation between companies seemed increasingly significant as it \nhad become clear that combinations of drugs were likely to be more effective \nin fighting HIV than any drug used alone. The researchers are hopeful that \nHIV, when faced with a combination of several drugs requiring mutation at \ndifferent sites for resistance to develop, will be unable to evolve all the \nmutations at the same time. Therefore, several drugs taken together or one \nafter the other could halt the spread of HIV. Currently, the drug companies \ndo not know what other drugs their competitors are developing. The new \nagreement allows companies to routinely exchange animal data and safety data \non new AIDS drugs. "An agreement like this will greatly facilitate \n\nHICNet Medical Newsletter Page 39\nVolume 6, Number 11 April 25, 1993\n\ncompanies\' ability to choose the best drug combinations much faster and in a \nmuch more efficient way," said Scolnick. He also said that the \ncollaboration would not violate antitrust laws. In creating the agreement, \nMerck spoke frequently to members of AIDS advocacy groups, including ACT-UP. \nDr. Daniel Hoth, director of the division on AIDS at the National Institute \nof Allergy and Infectious Disease said, "We\'re delighted to see the \npharmaceutical industry take this step because we think that increasing the \ninformation flow will likely accelerate the discovery of better compounds for \nAIDS." Related Stories: Wall Street Journal (04/20) P. B1; Philadelphia \nInquirer (04/20) P. A3; USA Today (04/20) P. 1B \n================================================================== \n"The Next Step in AIDS Treatment" Nature (04/08/93) Vol. 362, No. 6420, P. 493 \n(Maddox, John) \n\n Although AZT was found to be ineffective in prolonging the lives of \npeople infected with HIV, the findings do not indicate that AZT should not be \nadministered in people with full-blown AIDS, writes columnist John Maddox. \nAZT has been used in the United States in asymptomatic HIV-positive people on \nthe basis that administration of the drug appeared to abate the decline of \nT-cell counts. However, a report in the Lancet demonstrated that AZT should \nnot be used early in the course of disease. While the CD4 counts of the 877 \npeople given AZT were consistently greater than those of patients receiving \nonly placebo, the first three years of follow-up have shown that the \nproportions of people in the two groups progressing to overt AIDS or even to \ndeath were not significantly different at roughly 18 percent. The \nconclusions are that AZT is not an effective AIDS drug in HIV-infected \nindividuals, and that CD4 cell count may not be a reliable proxy for the \nprogression to AIDS in infected people. But nothing is implied by the study \nof the utility of AZT in the treatment of those in whom symptoms have already \nappeared--there is no case for abandoning that treatment, at least on the \nevidence now available. It is much more alarming that the CD4 count has \nproven to be an unreliable mark of the efficacy of drug treatment in HIV \ninfection. AIDS researchers should acknowledge HIV is alive from the \nbeginning of infection and turn it into a workable assay of the progress of \ndisease. The general application of such an assay will probably in itself \nprovide a better understanding of the pathogenesis of AIDS, concludes \nMaddox. \n ================================================================== \n"Infective and Anti-Infective Properties of Breastmilk From HIV-1-Infected \nWomen" Lancet (04/10/93) Vol. 341, No. 8850, P. 914 (Van de Perre, Philippe \net al.) \n\n A vaccine preparation inducing a persistent immune response of the IgM \ntype in the mother\'s body fluids could be valuable to prevent transmission of \nHIV-1 from mother to child, write Philippe Van de Perre et al. of the \n\nHICNet Medical Newsletter Page 40\nVolume 6, Number 11 April 25, 1993\n\nNational AIDS Control Program in Kigali, Rwanda. The researchers hypothesized \nthat transmission of HIV-1 through breastmilk could be favored by the \npresence of infected cells, by deficiency of anti-infective substances in \nbreastmilk, or both factors. A total of 215 HIV-1-infected women were \nenrolled at delivery in Kigali, Rwanda; milk samples were collected 15 days, 6 \nmonths, and 18 months post partum. HIV-1 IgG, secretory IgA, and IgM were \nassayed by western blot, for the latter two after removal of IgG with \nprotein G. In the 15-day and 6-month samples, the researchers sought viral \ngenome in milk cells by double polymerase chain reaction with three sets of \nprimers (gag, pol, and env). At 15 days, 6 months, and 18 months post \npartum, HIV-1 specific IgG was detected in 95 percent, 98 percent, and 97 \npercent of breastmilk samples; IgA in 23 percent, 28 percent, and 41 percent; \nand IgM in 66 percent, 78 percent, and 41 percent. In children who survived \nlonger than 18 months the risk of infection was associated with lack of \npersistence of IgM and IgA in their mothers\' milk. The presence of HIV-1-\ninfected cells in the milk 15 days post partum was strongly predictive of \nHIV-1 infection in the child by both univariate and multivariate analysis. \nThe combination of HIV-1 infected cells in breastmilk and a defective IgM \nresponse was the strongest predictor of infection. IgM and IgA anti-HIV-1 in \nbreastmilk may protect against postnatal transmission of HIV, the researchers \nconclude. \n ================================================================== \n April 21, 1993 \n ================================================================== \n"Firms to Share AIDS Research in Global Venture" Journal of Commerce \n(04/21/93), P. 7A \n\n A total of fifteen U.S. and European pharmaceutical companies announced \nTuesday they will swap drug supplies and information on early-stage AIDS \nresearch to hasten the search for combination therapies to fight HIV \ninfection and AIDS. The companies said the unusual move resulted primarily \nfrom the increasing concentration of AIDS research on combination therapies \nsince realizing that HIV is likely to develop resistance to every individual \nAIDS drug. Edward Scolnick, president of Merck & Co. Research Laboratories, \nled the collaborative effort that took a year of negotiations to come \ntogether, said participants. In addition to Merck, the other companies \ninvolved in the Inter-Company Collaboration for AIDS Drug Development are \nBristol-Myers Squibb Co., Burroughs Wellcome, Glaxo Inc., Hoffman-La Roche, \nEli Lilly & Co., Pfizer Inc., Smithkline Beecham, AB Astra, Du Pont Merck, \nSyntex Inc., Boehringer Ingelheim, Miles Inc., and Sigma-Tau. The \nparticipants said that all companies involved in AIDS drug development they \nwere aware of had joined the collaboration, and that any company actively \ninvolved in HIV anti-viral development may participate. Scolnick said the \ncollaborators would most likely meet every couple of months for a daylong \nscientific meeting where they will review for one another their preclinical \n\nHICNet Medical Newsletter Page 41\nVolume 6, Number 11 April 25, 1993\n\nand early clinical data. The American Foundation for AIDS Research (AmFAR) \nwas pleased with the news of the collaboration, which it hopes will lead to \nthe development of drug combinations that will reduce viral resistance. \nRelated Story: Financial Times (04/21) P. 1 \n================================================================== \n"Guidance Over HIV-Infected Health-Care Workers" Lancet (04/10/93) Vol. 341, \nNo. 8850, P. 952 (Horton, Richard) \n\n The United Kingdom\'s Department of Health recently followed the advice \nof AIDS experts that there is no scientific reason for routine HIV testing \namong health-care workers. Following recent highly publicized reports of \nhealth professionals who contracted HIV, the department issued revised \nguidelines on the management of such cases. Dr. Kenneth Calman, Chief \nMedical Officer, said doctors, dentists, nurses, and other health-care \nworkers have an ethical duty to seek advice if they have been exposed to HIV \ninfection, including, if appropriate, diagnostic HIV testing. He said, \n"Infected health care workers should not perform invasive procedures that \ncarry even a remote risk of exposing patients to the virus." The guidelines \n--------- end of part 3 ------------\n\n---\n Internet: david@stat.com FAX: +1 (602) 451-1165\n Bitnet: ATW1H@ASUACAD FidoNet=> 1:114/15\n Amateur Packet ax25: wb7tpy@wb7tpy.az.usa.na\n',
'From: prxfalken@email.teaser.com ( Pascal Guillaumet)\nSubject: Re: OAK VGA 1Mb. Please, I needd VESA TSR!!! 8^)\nNntp-Posting-Host: teaser.com\nOrganization: Guest of France-Teaser, (3617 EMAIL)\nLines: 13\n\n Simple !! Look for VESA drivers in VPIC 6.0e package !!\nMany SVGA card supported. Look for it on your favorite BBS.\n\n--\n------------------------------------------------------------------------------\nNot tonight honey, i just received my Nuvotel :-]\n\n\nprxfalken@email.teaser.com\nPascal GUILLAUMET\n3614 TEASER\nISSY LES MOULINEAUX\nFRANCE\n',
'From: boebert@sctc.com (Earl Boebert)\nSubject: Any Autodesk 3D Concepts Users Out There?\nOrganization: SCTC\nLines: 6\n\nIf you are a user of Autodesk 3D Concepts, and are willing to answer\na small number of short questions, then please send me Email.\n\nEarl (boebert@sctc.com)\n\n\n',
'From: wjhovi01@ulkyvx.louisville.edu (Bill Hovingh, LPTS Student)\nSubject: Re: hate the sin...\nOrganization: University of Louisville\nLines: 12\n\nscott@prism.gatech.edu (Scott Holt) writes:\n> "Hate the sin but love the sinner"...I\'ve heard that quite a bit recently, \n> often in the context of discussions about Christianity and homosexuality...\n> but the context really isn\'t that important. My question is whether that\n> statement is consistent with Christianity. I would think not.\n\nI\'m very grateful for scott\'s reflections on this oft-quoted phrase. Could\nsomeone please remind me of the Scriptural source for it? (Rom. 12.9 doesn\'t\ncount, kids.) The manner in which this little piece of conventional wisdom is\napplied has, in my experience, been uniformly hateful and destructive.\n\nbillh\n',
"From: Lawrence Curcio <lc2b+@andrew.cmu.edu>\nSubject: Athlete's Heart\nOrganization: Doctoral student, Public Policy and Management, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA\nLines: 16\nNNTP-Posting-Host: andrew.cmu.edu\n\nI've read that exercise makes the heart pump more blood at a stroke, and\nthat it also makes the heart pumb slower, in order to make up for the\ngreater volume. My Internist, who diagnosed my AV block, slow heart rate\nand PVC's, told me something different. She says that heart rate is\nassociated with the electrical properties of the hear muscle, not its\nsize. Exercise lowers heart rate and increases stroke volume, but the\neffects are unrelated except for their common source. The AV block, she\nasserts, is another electrical effect, which is irreversable - even when\nexercise is dicontinued. PVC's are also common in runners. \n\nSo my EKG puts me in a class with trained athletes and also with heart\npatients. Isn't that strange, though? Are there any not-so-beneficial\naspects to athlete's heart? Is it all good?\n\nNot worried, just curious,\n-Larry C. \n",
'From: lamontg@u.washington.edu\nSubject: Re: High Times A Comin\'!!!!!!!\nOrganization: \'Operation: Mindcrime\'\nLines: 14\nReply-To: lamontg@u.washington.edu\nNNTP-Posting-Host: mead.u.washington.edu\nOriginator: lamontg@mead.u.washington.edu\n\nrubble@leland.Stanford.EDU (Adam Heath Clark) writes:\n>\tIt seems a very large part of Christianity is based on the notion that\n>it is the _right_ religion, and that just about any other way of looking at\n>the universe is flat-out wrong. In the old days we had the Inquisition and the\n>burning of heretics; now we have Pat Buchanan trying to start some cultural\n>war because he can\'t stand to live in the same country as all these other,\n>non-"God fearing" people.\n\nits a survival trait. there are only a fixed number of resources (people)\nfor religions to inhabit. the doctrines of intolerance and not using\nbirth control are devices whereby the meme of the (capital-R) Religion\nof Christianity gains a larger share of the population than its memetic\ncompetitors.\n\n',
'From: pstlb@aurora.alaska.edu\nSubject: Where did the hacker ethic go?\nLines: 46\nNntp-Posting-Host: acad3.alaska.edu\nOrganization: University of Alaska Fairbanks\n\n\n A great many computer programmers read "Dr. Dobb\'s Journal". In a recent\nissue, there was a paragraph in an article that pained me greatly to read. It\nsaid:\n\n "There\'s nothing wrong if Microsoft setting the standards for the computer\nindustry. The industry NEEDS an IBM for the 90\'s."\n\n Where has the hacker ethic gone? Not the "cracker" ethic, which is something\nentirely different and bad, but the hacker ethic, which tells us to value the\nfree distribution of information and yield to the hands-on imperative? Why is\nit that people and corporations like Bill Gates, IBM, and Intel are able to\nhave a virtual dead lock on the computer industry? Why is it that, if a person\nlike myself posts messages to Usenet on how to get into the little nooks,\ncrannies, and idiosyncrasies of a computer system, they are not given any\nuseful information by those who know, just a badmouthing? (or are completely\nignored) Why is it that people like Steve Jobs have to abandon their efforts to\nmake truly innovative products? I ask those of you who call yourselves\nhackers, why is this? And further, how can you let it go on? It is a fact\nthat the computer industry has changed the world, and shall continue to do so\nfor a long time to come. It has allowed the propagation of information in a\nvolume unheard of even twenty years ago, and has made this world even smaller\nthan it was before. I shudder to think what that world will be like if the\ncorporations are allowed to have their way, perpetuating more drivel like the\n286, Windows, and the IBM product line on the computer-using public. \n\n That is not to say I am against business per se; people who profit off of\ninnovative, intelligent, creative designs do not bother me. In fact, I applaud\nit; that is the American way. But those who manage to sell kludgy, uncreative\nsystems to the public, and profit off of them, are the ones who are the\nproblem. And, unfortunately, because they have enough money to make up for\nblunt stupidity, they can keep doing it for a very long time.\n\n I put it to you thus: Where HAS the hacker ethic gone? If it still exists,\nwhere? And, if it DOES exist, why are those who call themselves "hackers"\nallowing this to perpetuate itself? Why are they not creating new, innovative,\ninteresting ideas to stop the SOS from maintaining its choke hold on the\ncomputer industry?\n\n I await with interest what will probably be a resounding silence.\n\n+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+\n| pstlb@acad3.alaska.edu | "Revenge is a dish best served cold." |\n| "Szechuan Death" | - Khan Singh |\n| | "Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan"|\n+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+\n',
'From: whitsebd@nextwork.rose-hulman.edu (Bryan Whitsell)\nSubject: Re: Divorce\nReply-To: whitsebd@nextwork.rose-hulman.edu\nOrganization: News Service at Rose-Hulman\nLines: 28\n\nIn article <May.9.05.42.10.1993.27614@athos.rutgers.edu> \ndaveshao@leland.stanford.edu (David Shao) writes:\n> In article <May.7.01.10.03.1993.14583@athos.rutgers.edu> \ncrs@carson.u.washington.edu (Cliff Slaughterbeck) writes:\n> >\n> >Along the way, she was married, happily, to a wonderful and\n> >supportive husband and gave birth to two sons. Still, everything was not\n> >perfect for Jane, since she could never open up the deepest part of her\n> >soul to her husband. \n..\n> >One of the interesting things that Jane said in this whole discussion was\n> >"Homosexuality is not about what goes on in the bedroom." She found that\n> >she was much more able to have a deep, committed relationship with a woman\n> >than a man. Sex, in her mind, is only a part of the whole relationship.\n...\n\nIt sounds like she has a problem. She has a problem opening up to her\nhusband so she is lesbian. WHAT? In a marrige, a couple is supposed\nto open up to each other. Because she didn\'t feel comfortable opening\nup to her husband she gets a divorce and comes to the conclusion that\nshe is lesbian. Before anyone gets maried they should make sure that\nthey would feel comfortable "open up the deepest part of her soul to\nher husband". "Sex, in her mind, is only a part of the whole\nrelationship." Did she think it was diffrent with a man. That might\nbe her problem.\n\nIn Christ\'s Love,\nBryan\n',
"From: ed@cwis.unomaha.edu (Ed Stastny)\nSubject: Re: Ftp Site(s) with GIFS\nOrganization: University of Nebraska at Omaha\nLines: 18\n\nmharring@cch.coventry.ac.uk (MARTIN) writes:\n\n>I have been looking around some Ftp sites and cannot find one with any good\n>GIF files. Could someone please tell me of some Ftp sites which do posses\n>goods GIFS and a wide range.\n\nWhatever you do, don't FTP to the sites listed in my sig...\n \nYou won't like what you find...really. I beg you NOT to GO there!\nPLEASE!\n\n...e\n\n--\nEd Stastny | OTIS Project, END PROCESS, SOUND News and Arts \nPO BX 241113\t | FTP: sunsite.unc.edu (/pub/multimedia/pictures/OTIS)\nOmaha, NE 68124-1113 | 141.214.4.135 (projects/otis)\n---------------------- EMail: ed@cwis.unomaha.edu, ed@sunsite.unc.edu\n",
"From: stephens@rd1.interlan.com (Jack Stephenson)\nSubject: Re: What is this .GL file?\nDistribution: usa\nOrganization: Racal-Datacom, Sunrise, FL\nLines: 27\n\nFrom article <1suntv$3km@watson.mtsu.edu>, by csjohn@watson.mtsu.edu (John Wallace):\n> I've got this animation file with a .GL extension.\n> What is this? Are there anu MS-DOS or OS/2 programs\n> which will run this file? Thanks.\n> \n\nThe GL file is an archive containing individual frames or pieces of\nframes (usually stored as .PIC or .CLP files), fonts, and a .TXT file\nthat tells the GRASP animation system how to display it. GL stands\nfor Grasp Library. There is probably a detailed discussion of this subject\nin the alt.binaries.pictures FAQ.\n\nThere are freely distributable viewers for GL files, and they are usually\nnamed GRASPRT?.EXE (replace the ? with a version digit or letter). Most\nGL files contain frames that are hardware-specific to particular modes\nof the CGA, EGA, or VGA adapters on PCs. I think that there are some\ncopies of GRASPRT available by anonymous ftp (I know that I got one there\na long time ago).\n\n\t\tGood Luck\n\t\tJack\n\n-- \n== Jack Stephenson main e-mail: j_stephenson@isuv1.interlan.com ==\n|| Racal-Datacom alternate e-mail: stephens@souv1.interlan.com ||\n|| P.O. Box 407044 ||\n== Ft. Lauderdale, FL 33340 USA Phone: (+1) 305-846-6137 ==\n",
'From: marshall@csugrad.cs.vt.edu (Kevin Marshall)\nSubject: Re: Death Penalty (was Re: Political Atheists?)\nOrganization: Virginia Tech Computer Science Dept, Blacksburg, VA\nLines: 46\nNNTP-Posting-Host: csugrad.cs.vt.edu\n\nbil@okcforum.osrhe.edu (Bill Conner) writes:\n\n>This is fascinating. Atheists argue for abortion, defend homosexuality\n>as a means of population control, insist that the only values are\n>biological and condemn war and capital punishment. According to\n>Benedikt, if something is contardictory, it cannot exist, which in\n>this case means atheists I suppose.\n>I would like to understand how an atheist can object to war (an\n>excellent means of controlling population growth), or to capital\n>punishment, I\'m sorry but the logic escapes me.\n\nFirst, you seem to assume all atheists think alike. An atheist does not\nbelieve in the existence of a god. Our opinions on issues such as \ncapital punishment and abortion, however, vary greatly. \n\nIf you were attacking the views of a particular atheist (Benedikt, I \npresume), then please present your argument as such and do not lump us\nall together.\n\nAs for the issues, let\'s start with abortion. Personally, I do not support\nabortion as a means of population control or contraception-after-the-fact.\nHowever, I support the right of any woman to have an abortion, regardless\nof what my personal views may be, because it would be arrogant of me to tell\nany individual what he/she may or may not do to his/her body, and the domain\nof legislators should not extend into the uterus. That\'s my opinion, and I\nam sure many atheists and theists would disagree with me.\n\nI do not defend homosexuality as a means of population control, but I \ncertainly defend it as an end to itself. I think most homosexuals would\nbe angered to hear of anyone characterizing their personal relationship as\nnothing more than a conscious effort to keep population levels down. \n\nAs for atheists believing all values are biological, I have no idea what\nyou\'re talking about.\n\nFinally, there are the issues of war and capital punishment. An atheist\ncan object to either one just as easily as a theist might. You seem to\nbe hung up on some supposed conspiratorial link between atheism and \npopulation control. Could this be the "atheist cause" you were referring \nto a few posts back?\n\n-- \n--- __ _______ ---\n||| Kevin Marshall \\ \\/ /_ _/ Computer Science Department |||\n||| Virginia Tech \\ / / / marshall@csugrad.cs.vt.edu |||\n--- Blacksburg, Virginia \\/ /_/ (703) 232-6529 ---\n',
"From: werckme1@eecs.uic.edu (robert werckmeister)\nSubject: ECG data needed\nOrganization: University of Illinois at Chicago\nLines: 3\n\nI need some ECG data , uncompressed, hopefully in ascii format.\nDon't care what it looks like, this is for a signal processing\nproject.\n",
'From: lamontg@u.washington.edu\nSubject: Re: High Times A Comin\'!!!!!!!\nOrganization: \'Operation: Mindcrime\'\nLines: 33\nReply-To: lamontg@u.washington.edu\nNNTP-Posting-Host: mead.u.washington.edu\nOriginator: lamontg@mead.u.washington.edu\n\nverdant@ucs.umass.edu (Sol Lightman) writes:\n>My theory, though yet unproven, is that this is due to simple envy.\n\nno its not.\n\nits due to the fact that there are two issues here: Religion and religion.\n\nreligion is personal belief system.\nReligion is a memetic virus.\n\npeople loudly proclaiming their beliefs are crossing the border from\nreligion -> Religion. people that want to "save" others are firmly\nentrenched in Religion ("memoids").\n\nrule #1 of not practicing Religion is to shut the fuck up, unless\nyou discuss it politely. this means that the motive behind the conversation\nis not only your self-gratifying wish to spread the word. \n\nreligion is something that ultimately comes from within a person, and\nreflects their value judgements. Religion is something that is\ncontracted from others and does not reflect the persons value judgements\n(other than perhaps "i think i\'ll be brainwashed today").\n\nReligion is a drug...\n\ni believe you can discuss religion. however, the post that started this\noff was not intented as discussion, it was more a proclamation of\nsomeones Religion.\n\nif you think i\'m talking about censorship or that i\'m closeminded you haven\'t\nunderstood this. i don\'t have any problem with the discussion of \nreligion, its just Religion that i can\'t stand...\n\n',
'From: livesey@solntze.wpd.sgi.com (Jon Livesey)\nSubject: Re: FAKE GOD, HOLY LIES\nOrganization: sgi\nLines: 10\nDistribution: world\nNNTP-Posting-Host: solntze.wpd.sgi.com\n\nIn article <1993Apr22.130421.113279@zeus.calpoly.edu>, dmcaloon@tuba.calpoly.edu (David McAloon) writes:\n>\n> REMEMBER: Einstien said Imagination is greater than knowledge!!\n\nThen Einstein should have had lunch with me at the Tien Fu\non Castro Street yesterday, when they handed me a fortune\ncookie that said "He who has imagination but not knowledge\nhas wings, but no feet".\n\njon.\n',
'From: alex@falcon.demon.co.uk (Alex Kiernan)\nSubject: Re: .SCI files and .SCO files \nDistribution: world\nOrganization: DIS(organised)\nReply-To: alex@falcon.demon.co.uk\nX-Newsreader: Simple NEWS 1.90 (ka9q DIS 1.21)\nLines: 16\n\nIn article <1993Apr30.094937.14281@daimi.aau.dk> rued@daimi.aau.dk writes:\n\n>Hello there!\n>\n>A week ago a guy asked what a .SCO file was.SC(character).\n>\n>regards \n>rued\n>\n>\n\nYes me, why?\n\n-- \nAlex Kiernan\nakiernan@falcon.demon.co.uk\n',
'From: mathew <mathew@mantis.co.uk>\nSubject: Re: Gulf War and Peace-niks\nOrganization: Mantis Consultants, Cambridge. UK.\nX-Newsreader: rusnews v1.02\nLines: 21\n\njbrown@batman.bmd.trw.com writes:\n> The problem with most peace-niks it they consider those of us who are\n> not like them to be "bad" and "unconscionable". I would not have any\n> argument or problem with a peace-nik if they held to their ideals and\n> stayed out of all conflicts or issues, especially those dealing with \n> the national defense. But no, they are not willing to allow us to\n> legitimately hold a different point-of-view. They militate and \n> many times resort to violence all in the name of peace.\n\n<Yawn> Another right-wing WASP imagining he\'s an oppressed minority. \nPerhaps Camille Paglia is right after all.\n\n"I would not have any argument or problem with a peace-nik if they [...]\nstayed out of all conflicts or issues"? I bet you wouldn\'t. You\'d love it. \n\nBut what makes you think that sitting back, saying nothing about defense\nissues, and letting people like you make all the decisions is anything to do\nwith "their ideals"?\n\n\nmathew\n',
"From: westes@netcom.com (Will Estes)\nSubject: Re: Use of haldol in elderly\nOrganization: Mail Group\nX-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]\nLines: 32\n\nLawrence Curcio (lc2b+@andrew.cmu.edu) wrote:\n: I've seen people in their forties and fifties become disoriented and\n: demented during hospital stays. In the examples I've seen, drugs were\n: definitely involved. \n\n: My own father turned into a vegetable for a short time while in the\n: hospital. He was fifty-three at the time, and he was on 21 separate\n: medications. The family protested, but the doctors were adamant, telling\n: us that none of the drugs interact. They even took the attitude that, if\n: he was disoriented, they should put him on something else as well! With\n: the help of an MD friend of the family, we had all his medication\n: discontinued. He had a seizure that night, and was put back on one drug.\n: Two days later, he was his old self again. I guess there aren't many\n: medical texts that address the subject of 21-way interactions.\n\nI saw the same thing happen to my father, and I can more or less validate your\ntake on hospitals. It seems to me that medical science understands precious\nlittle about taking care of the human machine. Drugs are given as a\nresponse to symptoms (and I guess that makes sense since all the studies that \nvalidate the effectiveness of those drugs are based on a narrow\nassessment of the degree of particular symptoms). But there seems\nto be very little appreciation for the well-being of a person\noutside of the numbers that appear on a test. I watched my dad\nwither away and lose huge amounts of body fat and muscles tissue\nwhile in the hospital. There is something a little crazy about a\nsystem in which there is more attention paid to giving you every\nlatest drug available than there is attention paid to whether you\nhave had enough to eat to prevent loss of muscle tissue. It is\nreally, really bizarre. \n\n-- \nWill Estes\t\tInternet: westes@netcom.com\n",
'From: dfield@flute.calpoly.edu (InfoSpunj (Dan Field))\nSubject: Re: PLEASE,HELP A PATIENT!!!\nOrganization: California Polytechnic State University, San Luis Obispo\nLines: 27\n\nIn article <AAghzshe-3@integral.stavropol.su> mymail@integral.stavropol.su writes:\n>% mail newsserv@kiae.su\n>Subject: PLEASE, HELP!!!\n> Dear Ladies and Gentlemen!\n> We should be grateful for any information about address and (or)\n> E-mail address of Loma-Linda Hospital (approximate position: USA,\n> California, near Vaimor town, 60 miles from Los-Angelos).\n> A patient needs consultation in this clinics before operation.\n> With respect, Igor V. Sidelnikov\n>QUIT\n\nThis is also being replied to via e-mail. I dialed my university\nlibrarian, and he looked it up:\n\nLoma Linda University Medical Center\nLoma Linda, CA 92350\n\nI don\'t know an Internet address for them, but they can be reached by\ntelephone at (714) 824-4300.\n\nGood luck.\n\n-- \n| Daniel R. Field, AKA InfoSpunj | "Never believe any experiment until |\n| dfield@oboe.calpoly.edu | it has been confirmed by theory." |\n| Biochemistry, Biotechnology | -Arthur Eddington |\n| California Polytechnic State U | Tongue-in-cheek or foot-in-mouth? | \n',
'From: (Rashid)\nSubject: Re: Yet more Rushdie [Re: ISLAMIC LAW]\nNntp-Posting-Host: 47.252.4.186\nOrganization: NH\nLines: 126\n\nIn article <1993Apr22.132909.5001@nic.csu.net>,\ndavec@silicon.csci.csusb.edu (Dave Choweller) wrote:\n> \n> In article <1993Apr22.004405.28052@bnr.ca> (Rashid) writes:\n> [stuff deleted...]\n> >The point of my post was that Rushdie was not being condemned solely\n> >for the "words" in his book (although this was certainly a contributing\n> >factor). It was the whole series of actions of Rushdie and his\n> >publishers following the publication of the book and the initial media\n> >spotlight placed on the book, that (in large part) led to the fatwa. The\n> >kind of fatwa levelled against Rushdie is not lightly placed and there\n> >are any number of anti-Islamic writers both within and outside the\n> >Islamic world who have not had fatwas made against them. Here, someone\n> >who adds fuel to an explosive situation, might be charged with incitement\n> >to riot - if people die in the rioting the charges against him might\n> >become even more serious.\n> \n> How can Rushdie be blamed for the deaths of people who are demonstrating\n> against him? The deaths should be blamed on the people who dealt with\n> the demonstrations, or on the demonstrators themselves, if they were\n> violent. To what lengths will you go to justify this barbaric behaviour\n> against Rushdie?\n\nOnce the Rushdie situation exploded into the media, the Muslim voice on\nthe matter of the book was effectively restricted to short video bytes\nshowing\nthe dramatic highlights of Muslim demonstrations. For every twenty or so\nnewspaper, magazine articles, interviews etc. supporting Rushdie, there\nwould\nappear one Muslim voice. This person was usually selected based on how\ndramatic and incoherent he was, not on his knowledge of Islam or the\nsituation at the time. This approx. twenty to one ratio continued\nthroughout the escalation of the crisis, with Rushdie in the central\nspotlight as the man of the moment, the valiant defender of everyman\'s\nright to free speech decoupled from responsibility. (As an aside, it\'s\ninteresting that while the hue and cry about freedom of speech went up,\nsome books (defaming certain ethnic and religious groups) continued\nto be banned here. It was felt that they injured the sensibilities of these\n\ngroups and presented a false image which could promote feelings of \nhate towards these groups. For Muslims this kind of double standard \nwas annoying.)\n\nRushdie saw this spotlight as a golden opportunity to lash out at\n"organized"\nIslam, and he did so with admirable verbal skill. The only kind of Islam\nwhich Rushdie finds palatable is what he calls a "secular" Islam - an Islam\nseparated from it\'s Qur\'an, it\'s Prophet, God, its legislation, and most\nimportantly from any intrusion into any political arena. Fine - Rushdie\nmade\nhis views known - the Muslim\'s made their anger at his book known. The\nscale of the whole affair erupted into global proportions - it was, by this\ntime,\nalready a political situation - affecting governments as well as\nindividuals.\nThe situation was a serious one, with far-reaching political implications.\nAt the centre of this turmoil was Rushdie, throwing fuel on the fire -\nengaged\nin a personal crusade that made him oblivious to any sense of caution.\n\nNow you may feel that the person in the centre of a worldwide storm such as\n\nthis has no responsibility, has no reason to exercise restraint of any\nkind, has no\nobligation to perhaps step back momentarily out of the spotlight till\nmatters calm down. Perhaps you even feel that he is justified in "boldly"\ndefying the anger of all those who dare to take umbrage at his literary\nwork, no matter what insult they find within it. Perhaps you see him as\na kind of secular "heroic Knight",mounted on the his media steed,\n doing battle with the "dragon" of Islamic "fundamentalism".\n\nWell Khomeini saw him as a disingeneous author who \ngrew up in a Muslim atmosphere, knew well what Muslim\'s hold dear, \nwho wrote a book which mischievously uses certain literary conventions\nto slander, insult, and attack Islam and its most notable personalities -\nwho, when\nfaced with a situation that became a worldwide crisis, continued with\nhis mischief in the world stage of the media - who, even after people were\ninjured and killed because of the magnitude and emotion of the situation,\ncontinued his mischief, instead of having the good sense to desist.\nKhomeini saw the crisis as mischief making on a grand scale, mischief\nmaking that grew in scale as the scale of the crisis enlarged. The deaths\nof Muslims around the world and Rushdie\'s continued media mischief\neven after this, was the triggering factor that seemed to\ndecide Khomeini on putting a stop to the mischief. The person at the\ncentre of all these events was Rushdie - he was the source of the\ncontinuing mischief - all media support, government support was\njust that - support. The source was Rushdie (and his publishers, who\nwere nothing short of ecstatic at the publicity and were very happy\nto see Rushdie constantly in the media). The Islamic rulings that\ndeal with people who engage in this kind of grand-scale mischief\nmaking, was applied to Rushdie.\n\n>You\'re attempts at justification are not doing the\n> image of Islam any good.\n\nI have made no attempts at justification, only at explanation. "Image" is\nthe chief concern of Muslim \'apologists\' for Islam and for Rushdie.\nIf Muslims willingly relegated themselves to becoming a sub-culture\nwithin a larger secular culture, such that the secular principles and laws\nhad precedence over the laws of Islam - then I have no doubt that Islam\nwould then be thought to have a good "image" (Principally because it would\nby and large reflect the secular image). A "good image" usually means " be\nmore\nlike me".\n\nYour attempts at TOTALLY exonerating Rushdie reflect exactly the attitude\nthat\nresulted in the polarization brought about by the crisis.\n\n> In Iran, the situation was monitored for many\n> >months - when Rushdie kept adding fuel to the flames through the free\n> >worldwide voice that the media gave him, the situation was monitored\n> >more seriously. When, even after many deaths occured worldwide, Rushdie\n> >still did not desist - the fatwa was pronounced. When behaving like\n> >a total jerk endangers lives, and the jerk sees this and still insists\n> >on his right to behave like a total jerk - he has the rug jerked out\n> >from under him.\n> \n> If the muslims didn\'t make such a big fuss over the book, like issuing\n> death threats, and killing publishers, NO ONE WOULD HAVE HEARD OF IT.\n\nThe fatwa came later - much later. If Rushdie didn\'t mouth off so much in\nthe\nmedia, the fuss would have died down - no one would have been killed, no\nfatwa would have been passed - the whole episode would have fizzled away.\n',
'From: brown@spk.hp.com (Pat R. Brown)\nSubject: Re: HELP...REFLUX ESOPHAGITIS\nOrganization: Hewlett-Packard\nX-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1.4 PL6]\nLines: 3\n\nPlease post your results, a close friend has this condition and\nhas asked these same questions. \n\n',
"X-To: mek@hydrox.enet.dec.com comp-graphics\nSubject: Re: TIFF complexity\nOrganization: I.E.C.C.\nX-Cc: \nFrom: johnl@iecc.cambridge.ma.us (John R. Levine)\nLines: 34\n\nIn article <9304271755.AA23355@enet-gw.pa.dec.com> you write:\n>Anyone who thinks that TIFF is too complex hasn't dealt with\n>CGM, ASN.1, CDA, DCA, SGML, or any one of a number of other\n>very successful file format. People seem perfectly capable\n>dealing with these others.\n\nWell, yeah, but unlike TIFF they all do substantially more than encode\nrectangular bitmaps. And the others are hardly trouble free. I hear that\nit is quite common for CGM implementations not to interoperate.\n\nThe annoying thing about TIFF is that is that along with the 50 useful\noptions, there are 100 stupid options. The most egregious example is that\nrather than picking a byte order and bit order and using it consistently\nin all TIFF files, byte and bit order are options and all TIFF readers on\nall machines, no matter what their natural byte order, have to be prepared\nto do byte swapping. There are four slightly different FAX formats --\nagain, any one of them would have been adequate. RGB images can be stored\nby pixel or by component, complexity without function, etc, etc. I also\nnote that the TIFF doc says that Aldus' experiments show that LZW reliably\ncompresses as well or better than any of the FAX formats, suggesting that\nnone of the FAX formats are really useful.\n\nWhat's worse, a lot of the formats aren't even implemented very well,\ne.g., LZW limits code words to 12 bits, while 14 or 16 bits would have\nprovided substantially better compression. And the LZW method compresses\nbytes rather than pixels.\n\nBut the absolute worst thing about TIFF is that any vendor can register\nproprietary TIFF codes and formats without even publicly documenting them.\nThis means that there is NO WAY to write a TIFF reader that can reliably\nread all incoming TIFF files. Some standard.\n\nRegards,\nJohn Levine, johnl@iecc.cambridge.ma.us, {spdcc|ima|world}!iecc!johnl\n",
'From: D.J.Nettleton@newcastle.ac.uk (D J Nettleton)\nSubject: HELP: A rectangle and parallelogram\nNntp-Posting-Host: tuda\nOrganization: University of Newcastle upon Tyne, UK NE1 7RU\nLines: 56\n\nI hope someone can help me with the following problem - I\'m sure there\nmust be a known solution.\n\nGiven a rectangle defined by\n\n-X <= x <= X and -Y <= y <= Y where X and Y are constant\n\nand a parallelogram defined by\n\n-C1 <= a*x + b*y <= C1 and -C2 <= c*x + d*y <= C2\n\nwhere C1, C2, a, b, c, d are constants and b/a != d/c (i.e. not\nparallel lines) ^^\n not equal to\n\nwhat is the area of their intersection?\n\n What I\'m after is some general algorithm suitable for ALL rectangles\nand parallelograms that can be described by the above equations. At the \nmoment it looks like I\'m going to have to look at all possible cases \nand examine each seperately e.g.\n\n1) rectangle encloses parallelogram. \n\n2) parallelogram encloses rectangle.\n\n3) two corners of parallelogram inside rectangle\n\n ^\n / \\\n / \\\n / \\\n Y ------------------------------- Y\n | / \\ |\n | \\ \\ |\n | \\ . \\ | . origin\n | \\ \\ |\n | \\ / |\n -Y ------------------------------- -Y\n -X \\ / X\n \\ /\n \\ /\n "\n\n4) two corners of parallelogram outside rectangle\n\n I hope someone can help.\n\nMany thanks in advance,\n\nDave Nettleton.\n\ne-mail: D.J.Nettleton@durham.ac.uk\n\nPS can you please cc me any replies by e-mail.\n\n',
"From: USTS012@uabdpo.dpo.uab.edu\nSubject: Should teenagers pick a church parents don't attend?\nOrganization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway\nLines: 13\n\nQ. Should teenagers have the freedom to choose what church they go to?\n\nMy friends teenage kids do not like to go to church.\nIf left up to them they would sleep, but that's not an option.\nThey complain that they have no friends that go there, yet don't\nattempt to make friends. They mention not respecting their Sunday\nschool teacher, and usually find a way to miss Sunday school but\ndo make it to the church service, (after their parents are thoroughly\ndisgusted) I might add. A never ending battle? It can just ruin your\nwhole day if you let it.\n\nHas anyone had this problem and how did it get resolved?\nf.\n",
'From: lmtra@uts.amdahl.com (Leon Traister)\nSubject: Re: Earwax\nKeywords: earwax\nOrganization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA\nLines: 32\n\nstephen@mont.cs.missouri.edu (Stephen Montgomery-Smith) writes:\n\n>What is the healthiest way to deal with earwax? Should one just leave\n>it in your ear and not mess with it, or should you clean it out\n>every so often? Can cleaning it out damage your eardrums?\n>Are there any tubes in your ear that might get blocked?\n\nAssuming that the wax is causing hearing loss, congestion or popping\nin the ears, you can try some cautious tepid water irrigation with a\nbulb syringe, but it is awkward to do for oneself and may not work or\nmay even make things worse. (My wife would disagree, she does it\nsuccessfully every six months or so.) In any case DO NOT ATTEMPT\nANYTHING WITH Q-TIPS!!!\n\nMy experience has been that this is initially best handled by a\nEar/Nose/Throat person. I say initially, because an ENT can evaluate\nwhether or not you might have success on your own with a little\ninstruction.\n\nI am not a physician (obviously, because I eschew the term\notolaryngologist); this posting is based only on personal experience.\n\n========================================================================\n\n<Usual Disclaimer> "The best is the enemy of the good" - Voltaire\n\nLeon Traister (lmtra@amdahl.uts.amdahl.com)\n\nc/o Amdahl Corporation (408)737-5449\n1250 E. Arques Ave. M/S 338\nP.O. Box 3470\nSunnyvale, CA 94088-3470\n',
'From: Eugene.Bigelow@ebay.sun.com (Geno )\nSubject: Re: The doctrine of Original Sin\nReply-To: Eugene.Bigelow@ebay.sun.com\nOrganization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.\nLines: 21\n\n>Eugene Bigelow writes:\n\n>>Doesn\'t the Bible say that God is a fair god [sic]? If this is true,\n>how can >this possibly be fair to the infants?\n\nAndrew Byler writes:\n\n>[What do you mean fair? God is just, giving to everyone what they\n>deserve. As all infants are in sin from the time of conception (cf\n>Romans 5.12, Psalm 1.7), they cannot possibly merit heaven, and as\n>purgatory is for the purging of temporal punishment and venial sins, it\n>is impossible that origianl sin can be forgiven....\n\nAs St. Augustine said, "I did not invent original sin, which the\nCatholic faith holds from ancient time; but you, who deny it, without a\ndoubt are a follower of a new heresy." (De nuptiis, lib. 11.c.12)]\n\nWhy is it fair to punish you, me and the rest of humanity because of\nwhat Adam and Eve did? Suppose your parents committed some crime before\nyou were born and one day the cops come to your door and throw you in\njail for it. Would you really think that is fair? I know I wouldn\'t.\n',
'From: hwstock@snll-arpagw.llnl.gov (stockman harlan w)\nSubject: screen capture\nKeywords: capture\nOrganization: Sandia National Laboratories\nLines: 4\n\nIs there a DOS screen capture utility -- PD or shareware -- that will\nwork reliably with VESA 6a 800x600 screens?\n\nThanks, H.W. Stockman, hwstock@sandia.llnl.gov\n',
"From: tlau@cs.ubc.ca (Tony Lau)\nSubject: 3-D widget wish list?\nOrganization: University of British Columbia, Vancouver, B.C., Canada\nLines: 31\nDistribution: world\nNNTP-Posting-Host: cascade.cs.ubc.ca\nKeywords: 3-D widget, manipulation, feedback, user interface design system\n\nI am very interested in hearing from all of you who are using or implementing\n3-D interactive applications what types of 3-D widgets you would\nlike to have in your applications. \n\nA 3-D widget is usually located in the same scene as other 3-D objects of the \napplication. It may let you\n\n- manipulate application data, the camera,\n 3-D objects in the scene and so on, or\n- view the status of the application or 3-D objects\n via the widget's shape, color, position, orientation and so on, or\n- do whatever I missed but you think is possible.\n\nFor example, a manipulative widget can be virtual trackball (shown as a\npartially transparent sphere) super-imposed on the object to be rotated.\nA feedback widget can be a ruler with ends anchored to 2 objects. The length\nof the ruler changes as the objects move and a numeric value is shown on the\nruler indicating the distance. A widget can provide both manipulation and\nfeedback. For example, the ruler can be used to change the distance between\nthe objects along its own axis.\n\n\nPlease e-mail me or post your opinions on 3-D interaction. The information\nI gathered will help me design a 3-D UI construction tool.\nYour help is very much appreciated.\n\nTony Lau\n<tlau@cs.ubc.ca>\nM.Sc. Student\nDept. of Computer Science\n\n",
'From: I3150101@dbstu1.rz.tu-bs.de (Benedikt Rosenau)\nSubject: Re: After 2000 years, can we say that Christian Morality is\nOrganization: Technical University Braunschweig, Germany\nLines: 88\n\nIn article <1r3inr$lvi@horus.ap.mchp.sni.de>\nfrank@D012S658.uucp (Frank O\'Dwyer) writes:\n \n(Deletion)\n>#>And if a "real large lot" (nice phrase) of people agree that there is a\n>#>football on a desk, I\'m supposed to see a logical difference between the two?\n>#>Perhaps you can explain the difference to me, since you seem to see it\n>#>so clearly.\n>#>\n>#(rest deleted)\n>#\n>#That\'s a fallacy, and it is not the first time it is pointed out.\n>\n>It\'s not a fallacy - note the IF. IF a supermajority of disinterested people\n>agree on a fundamantal value (we\'re not doing ethics YET Benedikt), then what\n>is the difference between that and those people agreeing on a trivial\n>observation?\n>\n \nThe reference to it\'s not yet being ethics is dubious. You have used the terms\nabsolute, objective and others interchangeably. Same with moral values, values,\nat all, worth, measuers, and usefulness. You infer from them as if they were\nthe same.\n \nTo the IF. When the If is not fulfilled, your intermission is a waste of time.\nAssuming that you don\'t intend this, it is reasonable to conclude that you\nwant to argue a point.\n \nYou have made a interesting statement here, namely that of the disinterested\nobserver. There is no such thing in morals. Probably the shortest proof for\nobjective and morality being a contradiction.\n \n \n>#For one, you have never given a set of morals people agree upon. Unlike\n>#a football. Further, you conveniently ignore here that there are\n>#many who would not agree on tghe morality of something. The analogy\n>#does not hold.\n>\n>I have, however, given an example of a VALUE people agree on, and explained\n>why. People will agree that their freedom is valuable. I have also\n>stated that such a value is a necessary condition for doing objective\n>ethics - the IF assertion above. And that is what I\'m talking about, there\n>isn\'t a point in talking about ethics if this can\'t be agreed.\n>\n \nFine. And that freedom is valuable is not generally agreed upon. I could\nname quite a lot of people who state the opposite. (Not that that wasn\'t\nmentioned before). In other words, you have nothing to fulfill your strong\nclaims with.\n \n \n>#One can expect sufficiently many people to agree on its being a football,\n>#while YOU have to give the evidence that only vanishing number disagrees\n>#with a set of morals YOU have to give.\n>\n>I\'m not doing morals (ethics) if we can\'t get past values. As I say,\n>the only cogent objection to my \'freedom\' example is that maybe people\n>aren\'t talking about the same thing when they answer that it is valuable.\n>Maybe not, and I want to think about this some, especially the implications\n>of its being true.\n>\n \nClutching a straw. I don\'t believe in mappings into metaphysical sets were\nloaded terms are fixpoints. Those who deny the morality of freedom make quite\nclear what they say, their practice is telling. Yes, there are even those who\nare willingly unfree. It is quite common in religions, by the way. For one,\nthere is a religion which is named Submission.\n \nDon\'t even try to argue that submission is freedom.\n \n \n>#Further, the above is evidence, not proof. Proof would evolve out of testing\n>#your theory of absolute morals against competing theories.\n>\n>Garbage. That\'s not proof either.\n>\n \nIf it were so, it would argue my case. But I am afraid that that is considered\nproof.\n \n \n>#The above is one of the arguments you reiterate while you never answer\n>#the objections. Evidence that you are a preacher.\n>\n>Name that fallacy.\n \nThere is something universally valued in a moral context.\n Benedikt\n',
"From: wilmshurst@reg.triumf.ca (WILMSHURST, PETER)\nSubject: Re: morphing\nOrganization: TRIUMF: Tri-University Meson Facility\nLines: 14\nDistribution: world\nNNTP-Posting-Host: reg.triumf.ca\nNews-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41 \n\nIn article <13742@news.duke.edu>, seth@north6.acpub.duke.edu (Seth Wandersman) writes...\n> \n>Keywords: \n> \n>I am looking for some morphing programs for DEC's or pc's. I looked for a program\n>called dmorph using archie but could not find it. I found a progrmam call\n>morpho but it only did grayscale images. Does anyone know where I should look?\n\nTry searching for DMORF, I think it's located on wuarchive.wustl.edu in a\nmirror directory... I've used it before, & it was pretty good!\n\nPete Wilmshurst\nemail:\twilmshurst@reg.triumf.ca\n\n",
'From: stark@dwovax.enet.dec.com (Todd I. Stark)\nSubject: Re: OCD\nOrganization: Digital Equipment Corporation\nLines: 60\nNNTP-Posting-Host: DWOVAX\nSummary: Two important clarifications to previous post of mine ...\n\n\nThis is to followup my previous reply on this topic, which it has been\npointed out to me might have been dangerously misleading in two spots.\n\n1. I stated that psychotherapy (meaning talking therapy and so on) was used \n to treat Obsessive Compulsive Disorder, which though sometimes true is \n misleading. It is not often found effective, particularly by itself.\n Primary treatment today usually consists at least in part of drug\n therapy. The most current theories of this condition attribute \n it to more to biological causes than psychological, in places where this\n distinction becomes important.\n\n2. I mentioned that the DSM-IIIR mentions \'impulses\' as a possible \n\tdiagnostic marker. However, this might look like something\n\tpeople associate with psychotic conditions, uncontrollable or\n\tunpredictable behaviors, which is NOT the case with OCD. \n\tOne of the diagnostic criteria of OCD is that the individual\n\tcan and does suppress some of their \'impulses,\' although they\n\tare an unending source of anxiety. \n\tThe obsessive thoughts and ritualistic actions usually associated with \n\tOCD are most frequently very mundane and predictable, closer to\n\ta superstitious nature than a dangerous nature for the most part.\n\n\tSome references (one non-technical and several technical)\n\tthat someone was kind enough to supply for me\n\tbut was unable to post themself :\n\n|"The boy who couldn\'t stop washing" by judith rapaport. ***\n\n\t(technical refs) :\n\n|\tpharmacotherapy of o-c disorder\n|\tdonna m jermain and lynn crismon\n|\tpharmacotherapy 1990; 10(3):175-198\n\n|\tepidemiology of ocd\n|\tseteven a rasmussen and jane eisen\n|\tj clin psychiatry 1990;51(2, suppl.):10-13\n\n|\tthe waking nightmare: an overview of ocd\n|\tjudith l rapoport\n|\tj clin psychiatry 1990; 51(11, suppl.):25-28\n\n|\tabsence of placebo response in ocd\n|\tmatig r mavissakalian, bruce jones, stephen olson\n|\tj nerv ment disease 1990 vol 178 no. 4\n\n\tAnd thanks very much to those who supplied constructive \n\tcriticism to my first post on OCD. I hope this helps clarify\n\tthe parts that were misleading.\n\n\t\t\t\t\t\tkind regards,\n\n\t\t\t\t\t\ttodd\n+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+\n| Todd I. Stark\t\t\t\t stark@dwovax.enet.dec.com |\n| Digital Equipment Corporation\t\t (215) 354-1273 |\n| Philadelphia, Pa. USA |\n| "(A word is) the skin of a living thought" Olliver Wendell Holmes, Jr. |\n+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+\n',
"From: sandvik@newton.apple.com (Kent Sandvik)\nSubject: Re: SOC.RELIGION.CHRISTIAN\nOrganization: Cookamunga Tourist Bureau\nLines: 23\n\nIn article <May.16.01.56.14.1993.6674@geneva.rutgers.edu>,\nsfp@lemur.cit.cornell.edu (Sheila Patterson) wrote:\n> As for the atheists/agnostics who read this list: if you aren't\n> christian and if you have no intention of ever becoming one why on\n> earth do you waste your time and mine by participating on a christian\n> discussion list ?\n\nI don't think we should draw borders around newsgroups, christians\nare free to read and post entries on the atheist newsgroups, and \nmuslims are free to so so in other groups as well.\n\nIt's up to each individual to define their time schedule concerning \npostings. The problems we all have noticed on various newsgroups\nis the evangelistical method of telling that 'I am right, and you are\nwrong'. This is true of both theists and atheists.\n\nHopefully a more constructive dialogue between the groups \nwould help concerning assumptions and colorization of views.\n\nCheers,\nKent\n---\nsandvik@newton.apple.com. ALink: KSAND -- Private activities on the net.\n",
'From: tmc@spartan.ac.BrockU.CA (Tim Ciceran)\nSubject: Re: Best FTP Viewer please.\nOrganization: Brock University, St. Catharines Ontario\nX-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL9]\nLines: 19\n\nSITUNAYA@IBM3090.BHAM.AC.UK wrote:\n: ==============================================================================\n: Could someone please tell me the Best FTP\'able viewer available for MSDOS\n: I am running a 486 33mhz with SVGA monitor.\n: I need to look at gifs mainly and it would be advantageous if it ran\n: under windows...........thanks\n\nFTP to wuarchive.wustl.edu,\nchange into mirrors/msdos/graphics\nget "grfwk61t.zip"\nThis is the DOS version of Graphic Workshop. There is a Windows version which\nyou could probably find in the mirrors/msdos/windows3 directory but I don\'t \nknow what the file name is. \n\n-- \n\nTMC\n(tmc@spartan.ac.BrockU.ca)\n\n',
'From: alan@lancaster.nsc.com (The Hepburn)\nSubject: Re: Resound Hearing aids (and others)\nOrganization: National Semiconductor Corporation\nLines: 50\n\nIn article <rhaller-260493122521@rhaller.cc.uoregon.edu>, rhaller@ns.uoregon.edu (Rich Haller) writes:\n|> I have a fairly severe high frequency hearing loss. A recent rough test\n|> showed a gently sloping loss to 10-20db down at 1000cps. Then it falls off\n|> a cliff to 70-80dbs down from 1500cps on. This type of loss is difficult\n|> to fit. I am currently using some old siemens behind the ear aids which\n|> keep me roughly functional, but leave a lot to be desired.\n|> \n|> Recently I had an opportunity to test the Widex Q8 behind the ear aids for\n|> several weeks. These have four independent programs which are intended to\n|> be customized for different hearing situations and can be reprogramed. I\n|> found them to be a definite improvement over my current aids and was about\n|> to go ahead with them until another local outfit advertised a free trial of\n|> another programmable system called ReSound.\n|> \n|> Unfortunately I was only able to try the ReSound aids in their office for\n|> about 30 minutes and I couldn\'t compare them \'head to head\' with the Widex.\n|> Nevertheless, it did appear to me that they were superior and I was\n|> impressed by what I was able to read about the theory behind them which I\n|> will give in a separate posting. They also carry the Widex aids and had one\n|> patient (presumably wealthy) who decided to go ahead and get the ReSound\n|> even though he had purchased the Widex only 6 months ago.\n|> \n|> The problem is that the ReSound aids are about twice as expensive as the\n|> Widex and other programmable aids. I could take a trip to Europe on the\n|> difference! Being a lover of bargains and hating to spend money, I am\n|> having a hard time persuading myself to go with the ReSounds. I would\n|> appreciate any opinions on this and other hearing aids and projections\n|> about when and if I might see improvements in technology that aren\'t quite\n|> so expensive.\n|> \n|> \n\nYour hearing curve sounds a lot like mine (thanks, Uncle Sam!). I\'ve been\nwearing Miracle Ear canal aids for about 5 months now and I find them to be\nacceptable. They are molded to the shape of your ear canal, and tuned to \nyour hearing curve. They are comfortable to wear and almost invisible, if\nyou\'re worried about that (although if you\'re currently wearing behind the\near models, that\'s not an issue). The cost: I paid $1200 each for mine,\nthrough the Miracle Ear counter at Sears. I\'ve heard that there is a\nsubstantial discount for senior citizens, but I haven\'t researched that, because\nI\'m not a senior citizen, yet!\n\nGive them a try; you might be pleasantly surprised!\n\n\n-- \nAlan Hepburn "A man doesn\'t know what he knows\nNational Semiconductor until he knows what he doesn\'t know."\nSanta Clara, Ca \nalan@berlioz.nsc.com Thomas Carlyle\n',
'From: car@trux.mi.org (Chris Rende)\nSubject: Need recommendations on imaging workstations\nLines: 23\n\n\nI need recommendations on imaging workstations. As a minimum, I have the\nfollowing requirements:\n\n- High resolution graphics (Black and white) for display of Fax images.\n- Support the display of multiple simulataneous windows:\n Fax image, 3270 emulation window to IBM host, etc...\n- High speed network interface for 3270, image data, etc...\n (16Mb Token ring, EtherNet, etc...)\n- Mouse\n\n\nAny information/experience would be appreciated.\n\nThanks,\n\n\ncar.\n-- \n',
"From: madhaus@netcom.com (Maddi Hausmann)\nSubject: Re: free moral agency\nOrganization: Society for Putting Things on Top of Other Things\nDistribution: na\nLines: 20\n\nbil@okcforum.osrhe.edu (Bill Conner) writes: >\n\n>I see that you still can't grasp the obvious, is it because your are devious\n>by nature, or can you only find fault with an argument by\n>misrepresenting it?\n\nGee, since you ignored the entire substance of my substantial\npost, you got a lot of nerve claiming that I don't understand\nwhat's being talked about.\n\nRespond to the previous post or shut the fuck up. You're\nreally annoying.\n\n\n-- \nMaddi Hausmann madhaus@netcom.com\nCentigram Communications Corp San Jose California 408/428-3553\n\nKids, please don't try this at home. Remember, I post professionally.\n\n",
"From: pww@spacsun.rice.edu (Peter Walker)\nSubject: Re: The Universe and Black Holes, was Re: 2000 years.....\nOrganization: I didn't do it, nobody saw me, you can't prove a thing.\nLines: 24\n\nIn article <1993Apr20.154658@IASTATE.EDU>, kv07@IASTATE.EDU (Warren\nVonroeschlaub) wrote:\n> \n> Let's say that we drop a marble into the black hole. It races, ever faster,\n> towards the even horizon. But, thanks to the curving of space caused by the\n> excessive gravity, as the object approaches the event horizon it has further to\n> travel. Integrating the curve gives a time to reach the event horizon of . . \n> infinity. So the math says that nothing can enter a black hole.\n\nNot true. Only an observer at rest at infinite distance from the black hole\nwill see the particle take infinite time to reach the horizon. In the\nparticle's own reference frame, it takes a very finite time to reach the\nhorizon and the singularity. The math does indeed predict this. Take a look\nat Mitchner, Thorne, and Wheeler's _Gravitation_.\n> \n\nPeter Walker\n\nDon't forget to sing:\n They say there's a heaven for those who will wait\n Some say it's better, but I say it ain't\n I'd rather laugh with the sinners than cry with the saints\n The sinners are much more fun\n Only the good die young!\n",
'From: mussack@austin.ibm.com (Christopher Mussack)\nSubject: Re: Atheists and Hell\nLines: 41\n\n>> [ To summarize:\n>> While questioning the sagacity of someone who said they would \n>> "rather spend an eternity in Hell than be beside God in Heaven\n>> knowing even one man would spend his "eternal life" being\n>> scorched for his wrongdoings..." I described how horrible hell\n>> is and compared the above statement with Jesus\'\n>> suffering on the cross in order to prevent people going to hell.]\n\nwhich Kenneth Engel challenges:\n> Did this happen to Jesus? I don\'t think so, not from what I heard. \n> He lived ONE DAY of suffering and died. If the wages of sin is \n> the above paragraph, then JESUS DIDN\'T PAY FOR OUR SINS, DID HE?\n\nI will wimp out and admit that I never liked the metaphor of\nJesus "paying" for our sins in the sense that many Christians\naccept as literal. The point is that God understands the suffering\nwe go through, not just intellectually like when we watch\nthe Somalians on TV, but _really_ understands, He can "feel" \nour pain. This fact is manifested by Jesus\' life. We can argue\nthat someone in history might have suffered more than Jesus,\nwe can think of more horrible torture than crucifixion, we can\nthink of cases of betrayal and fruitless effort leading to\nworse despair, but the main point is that Jesus is in the\ntrenches with us, He is in everyone, whatever I do to the least\nof humanity I do to Him, and whatever I do for the least of\nhumanity I do for Him.\n\nNow, to reconcile this with the existence of hell is beyond my\ncapabilities, but that wasn\'t my goal.\n\n> I\'d be surprised to see the moderator let this one through, \n\nThankfully our moderator is surprising.\n\n> but I seriously want a reasonable explanation for this.\n\nAs I re-read this I must admit that this is more of a description\nof my faith than an explanation, but perhaps that\'s all\nI can do, hopefully that\'s all I have to do.\n\nChris Mussack\n',
'From: bf455@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Bonita Kale)\nSubject: arthritis and diabetes\nOrganization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)\nLines: 37\nReply-To: bf455@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Bonita Kale)\nNNTP-Posting-Host: slc4.ins.cwru.edu\n\n\n\n\nI have osteoarthritis, and my huband has just been diagnosed with diabetes\n(type II, I guess--no insulin). \n\n\nI\'ve been trying to read up on these two conditions, and what really\nsurprises me is how few experiments have been done and how little is known. \nLosing weight appears to be imperative for diabetes and advisable for\narthritis (at least, for -women- with arthritis), but, of course, the very\nconditions that make weight loss advisable are part of the reason for the\nweight gain. \n\nFor myself, I\'m almost afraid to lose weight, because no matter how gentle\nand sensible a diet I use (the last one was 1800-2000 calories, in about\neight small meals), the weight won\'t go off gradually and stay off. \nInstead, it drops off precipitously, and then comes back on with much\ninterest, like bread on the waters.\n\n\nWith this experience, it\'s hard to be encouraging to my husband. All I can\nsuggest is to make it as gradual as possible.\n\nMeanwhile, some experts recommend no sugar, others, no fat, others, just a\nbalanced diet. It\'s almost impossible to tell from their writings -which-\nparts of their recommendations are supposed to help the condition, and\nwhich are merely ideas the expert thinks are nifty.\n\nIs it my imagination, or are these very old conditions very poorly\nunderstood? Is it just that I\'m used to pediatrician-talk ("It\'s strep;\ngive him this and he\'ll get well.") and so my expectations are too high? \n\n\nBonita Kale\n\n\n',
'From: bitn@kimbark.uchicago.edu (nathan elery bitner)\nSubject: Deadly NyQuil???\nReply-To: bitn@midway.uchicago.edu\nOrganization: University of Chicago\nLines: 25\n\nI originally posted this to alt.suicide.holiday but it was recommended\nthat I try you guys instead:\n\nMy friend insists that Ny-Quil can be deadly if enough is taken -- he\nsuggested something like 20-30 of the Night-time gelcaps would do someone\nin. Being a NORMAL user of Ny-Quil :), I checked the \'ingredients\' and\nhave a very hard time believing it. They are:\n\n250 g acetaminophen\n30 mg Pseudoephedrine HCl\n10 mg Dextromethorphan HBr\n6.25 mg Doxylamine Succinate\n\n(per softgel)\n\nCan someone settle our bet (a package of Ny-Quil of course :) -- what \neffect would 20-30 of these babies have?\n\n*-Nathan-*\n\n-- \n------------------------------------------------------------------------\n| INTER ARMA SILENT LEGES |\n| "Worship Ditka NOW." email: bitn@midway.uchicago.edu |\n|______________________________________________________________________| \n',
'From: aaronc@athena.mit.edu (Aaron Bryce Cardenas)\nSubject: Baptism requires Faith\nOrganization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology\nLines: 144\n\nIt troubles me that there have been so many posts recently trying to support\nthe doctrine of Original Sin. This is primarily a Catholic doctrine, with no\nother purpose than to defend the idea of infant baptism. Even among, its\nsupporters, however, people will stop short of saying that unbaptised infants\nwill go to hell.\n\nIt\'s very easy for just about anyone to come up with a partial list of\nscripture to support any sort of wrong doctrine. However, if we have the\nheart to persevere in our beliefs to make sure that they are biblically\nbased, then we can come to an understanding of the truth. Let\'s now take a\nmore complete look at scripture.\n\nColossians 2:11-12 "In him you were also circumcised, in the putting off of\nthe sinful nature, not with a circumcision done by Christ, having been\nburied with him in baptism and raised with him through your faith in the\npower of God, who raised him from the dead."\n\nIn baptism, we are raised to a new life in Christ (Romans 6:4) through a\npersonal faith in the power of God. Our parent\'s faith cannot do this. Do\ninfants have faith? Let\'s look at what the Bible has to say about it.\n\nRomans 10:16-17 "But not all the Israelites accepted the good news. For\nIsaiah says, \'Lord, who has believed our message?\' Consequently, faith\ncomes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word\nof Christ."\n\nSo then we receive God\'s gift of faith to us as we hear the message of the\ngospel. Faith is a possible response to hearing God\'s word preached. Kids\nare not yet spiritually, intellectually, or emotionally mature enough to\nrespond to God\'s word. Hence they cannot have faith and therefore cannot\nbe raised in baptism to a new life.\n\nEzekiel 18:20 "The soul who sins will die. The son will not share the\nguilt of the father, nor will the father share the guilt of the son. The\nrighteousness of the righteous man will be credited to him, and the\nwickedness of the wicked will be charged against him."\n\nIf you read all of Ezekiel 18, you will see that God doesn\'t hold us guilty\nfor anyone else\'s sins. So we can have no original guilt from Adam.\n\nEzekiel 18:31-32 "Rid yourselves of all the offenses you have committted,\nand get a new heart and a new spirit. Why will you die, O house of Israel?\nFor I take no pleasure in the death of anyone, declares the Sovereign Lord.\nRepent and live!"\n\nThe way to please God is to repent and get a new heart and spirit. Kids\ncannot do this. Acts 2:38-39 says that when we repent and are baptized, we\nwill then receive a new spirit, the Holy Spirit. Then we shall live.\n\nNow then that we have a little more background as to why original sin is\nnot Biblical, let\'s look at some of the scriptures used to support it.\n\nRomans 5:12 "Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and\ndeath through sin, and in this way death came to all men, because all\nsinned--"\n\nSin and death entered the world when the first man sinned. Death came to\neach man because each man sinned. Note that it\'s good to read through all\nof Romans 5:12-21. Some of the verses are easier to misunderstand than\nothers, but if we read them in context we will see that they are all\nsaying basically the same thing. Let\'s look at one such.\n\nRomans 5:19 "For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many\nwere made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one man the many\nwill be made righteous."\n\nThrough the disobedience of each individual, each was made a sinner. In\nthe same way, through the obedience of Jesus, each will be made righteous.\nWe must remember when reading through this passage that death came to each\nman only because each man sinned, not because of guilt from Adam.\nOtherwise the Bible would contradict itself. I encourage you to read\nthrough this whole passage on your own, looking at it from this point of\nview to see if it doesn\'t all fit together.\n\nPsalm 51:5 "Surely I was sinful at birth, sinful from the time my mother\nconceived me."\n\nThis whole Psalm is a wonderful example of how we should humble ourselves\nbefore God in repentance for sinning. David himself was a man after God\'s\nown heart and wrote the Psalm after committing adultry with Bathsheba and\nmurdering her husband. All that David is saying here is that he can\'t\nremember a time when he wasn\'t sinful. He is humbling himself before God\nby confessing his sinfulness. His saying that he was sinful at birth is\na hyperbole. The Bible, being inspired by God, isn\'t limited to a literal\ninterpetation, but also uses figures of speech as did Jesus (John 16:25).\nFor another example of hyperbole, see Luke 14:26.\n\nNow then, even though people see that baptism requires faith and that\noriginal sin is not Biblical, they will still argue that infant baptism is\nnecessary because children sin by being selfish - not sharing toys with\nother children, by being mean - hitting others and fighting, etc.\n\nCertainly we have observed children doing wrong things, but my gut feeling\nis always that they don\'t know any better. Let\'s look to see if the Bible\nagrees with my gut feelings.\n\nIsaiah 7:14-15 "Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign: The\nvirgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and will call him\nImmanuel. He will eat curds and honey when he knows enough to reject the\nwrong and choose the right."\n\nNow just about any church leader will tell you that this is a prophecy\nabout Jesus. If they don\'t, then point them to Matthew 1:23 and find a new\nleader. Jesus certainly couldn\'t have had less knowledge than normal human\nbabies. Yet this passage says that he had to mature to a certain extent\nbefore he would know the difference between right and wrong. We see that\nhe did grow and become wiser in Luke 2:40 and 2:52. The implication is\nthat Jesus did wrong things as a child before he knew to choose right over\nwrong. Since we know that Jesus was perfect -- without sin, we have rather\nconclusive proof that babies cannot sin because they don\'t know to choose\nthe right instead of the wrong.\n\nJesus himself was baptized, albeit with John\'s baptism, not as an infant,\nbut as a thirty-year-old man (Luke 3:21-23) and started his ministry as\nsoon as he was baptized (Luke 3:23). Immediately afterwards, he was\ntempted by the devil (Luke 4:1-13; Matthew 4:1-11; Mark 1:12-13).\n\nThank you for your attention.\n\nModerator - this should finish up the subject for a while. Perhaps you\nwould like to make a FAQ out of this response so that you can repost it\nfrom time to time when the topic comes up. Feel free to rearrange the\ncontents if you would like to, but please send me a copy of the final FAQ.\n\nSincerely,\n\nAaron Cardenas\naaronc@athena.mit.edu\n\n[I think you\'re overly optimistic about the authoritative quality of\nyour response. First, original sin is not a Catholic-only doctrine.\nIt was held by Luther and Calvin as well, and is still present in one\nform or another in the Lutheran and Reformed traditions. Second,\nsaying that it has no other purpose than defending infant baptism is\nan ad hominem argument, which has considerable evidence against it.\nThe original Baptist theology included original sin, and some Baptists\nstill hold it. And there are certainly groups that baptize infants\nwithout believing in original sin. Among Protestants, the sacraments\ntend to be a bit more symbolic than among Catholics. Protestants who\nbaptize infants see baptism as a sign of God\'s acceptance of us,\nrather than our acceptance of God. In traditional Protestant\ntheology, God\'s grace precedes our response, and is applicable to\nchildren. There are a number of passages one can cite to indicate\nthat God accepts even children. --clh]\n',
"From: aldridge@netcom.com (Jacquelin Aldridge)\nSubject: Re: eye dominance\nOrganization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)\nLines: 35\n\nbbenowit@telesciences.com (Barry D Benowitz) writes:\n\n>In article <C5E2G7.877@world.std.com> rsilver@world.std.com (Richard Silver) writes:\n\n>> Is there a right-eye dominance (eyedness?) as there is an\n>> overall right-handedness in the population? I mean do most\n>> people require less lens corrections for the one eye than the\n>> other? If so, what kinds of percentages can be attached to this?\n>> Thanks. \n\n\n>Yes, there is such a thing as eye dominance, although I am not sure if\n>this dominance refers to perscription strength.\n\n>As i recall, if you selectively close your dominant eye, you will percieve\n>that the image shifts. This will not happen if you close your other eye.\n\n>I believe that which eye is dominant is related to handedness, but I\n>can't recall the relation at the moment.\n\n>Barry D. Benowitz\n\nI read a great book about eye dominance several years ago. So there is one\nbook out there..at least one :).\n\nThere were several types of eye dominance. Where a person looks in their\nmemory usually indicates a type of eye dominanc Another type is related to\ncoordination activities like hitting a ball. Another for reading. \n\nI didn't read one that discussed prescription strength. Although people\nwith bad vision, near or far sighted would tend to depend on the stronger\neye. \n\n-Jackie-\n\n",
'From: stolk@fwi.uva.nl (Bram)\nSubject: Re: 48-bit graphics...\nKeywords: 48-bit alpha channel IMAGE\nNntp-Posting-Host: gene.fwi.uva.nl\nOrganization: FWI, University of Amsterdam\nLines: 32\n\nHowdy all,\n\noehler@yar.cs.wisc.edu (Wonko the Sane) writes:\n\n>\tI was recently talking to a possible employer ( mine! :-) ) and he made a reference to a\n>48-bit graphics computer/image processing system. I seem to remember it being called IMAGE or\n>something akin to that. Anyway, he claimed it had 48-bit color + a 12-bit alpha channel. That\'s\n>60 bits of info--what could that possibly be for? Specifically the 48-bit color? That\'s 280\n>trillion colors, many more than the human eye can resolve. Is this an anti-aliasing thing? Or\n>is this just some magic number to make it work better with a certain processor.\n\nHmm... 48 bit aye?\nWell, it beats a 32-bit design for thee sake of ellegance.\n48 bit means 16 bits per primary colour.\nThe 2^48 nr of colours is a bit misleading. It makes more sense to see it\nas 65536 possible shades of pure red.\nThis might actually make some sense, since 256 shades of red (24 bit colours) \nmay produce visible \'jumps\' in intensity.\nThen again, a byte per primary colour for each pixel is the most elegant way \nof doing colour graphics, because it leaves ya such a tidy (and fast) program\ncode.\n\n\tTake care,\n\n\t\tBram\n\n+-------------------------------------+------------------------------------+\n| "Flying is a nack... the trick is | Bram Stolk (stolk@fwi.uva.nl) |\n| to throw yourself at the ground, | Dept. of maths. & computer science|\n| and miss..." - Douglas Adams | University of Amsterdam |\n+-------------------------------------+------------------------------------+\n No, I dont use ms-winDOZE, I prefer Linux!\n',
"From: andrea@unity.ncsu.edu (Andrea M Free-Kwiatkowski)\nSubject: Re: Can men get yeast infections?\nOrganization: NCSU\nX-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]\nDistribution: na\nLines: 21\n\nSteve Pope (spp@zabriskie.berkeley.edu) wrote:\n: A woman once told me her doctor told her that I\n: could catch, asymptomatically, her yeast infection\n: from her, then give it back to her, causing\n: a relapse.\n\n: Probably bogus, but if not, it's another reason to use\n: latex...\n\n: Steve\n\nIt isn't bogus. I had chronic vaginal yeast infections that would go away\nwith cream but reappear in about 2 weeks. I had been on 3 rounds of\nantibiotics for a resistant sinus infection and my husband had been on\namoxicillin also for a sinus infection. After six months of this, I went\nto a gynecologist who had me culture my husband seminal fluid. After 7\ndays incubation he had quite a bit of yeast growth (it was confirmed by\nthe lab). A round of Nizerol for him cleared both of us.\n\nAndrea Kwiatkowski\n\n",
"From: fsela1@acad3.alaska.edu\nSubject: Re: Why do people become atheists?\nOrganization: University of Alaska Fairbanks\nLines: 21\n\nIn article <May.5.02.50.42.1993.28665@athos.rutgers.edu>, Fil.Sapienza@med.umich.edu (Fil Sapienza) writes:\n> I am interested in finding out why people become\n> atheists after having believed in some god/God.\n> In conversing with them on other groups, I've\n> often sensed anger or hostility. Though I don't\n> mean to imply that all atheists are angry or hostile,\n> it does seem to be one motivation for giving up\n> faith. Thus, some atheism might result from \n> broken-ness.\n\n\ni'm atheist\njust because\nthere is no supreme being\nthere is the world as we know it\nand it's wonderful and incredible\nand there is love between people\nand these things are everything\ni don't believe in a god that made this all\ni believe in the amazing and beautiful\nteaming with life world i live in\n",
'From: fortmann@superbowl.und.ac.za (Paul Fortmann - PG)\nSubject: Praying for Justice\nOrganization: University Of Natal (Durban)\nLines: 650\n\nI recently came across this article which I found interesting. I have \nposted it to hear what other people feel about the issue.\n\nI realise it is rather long (12 pages in Wordperfect) by may well be worth \nthe read.\n\nExcept for the first page (which I typed) the rest was scanned inusing \nOmnipage. Some of the f\'s have come out as t\'s and visa-versa. I have tried \nto correct as much as possible.\n\n\nABOUT THE AUTHOR\n\nPeter Hammond is the founder of Frontline Fellowship, a\nmissionary organisation witnessing to the communist countries in\nSouthern Africa. He has also made several visits to many East\nEuropean countries.\n\nFRONTLINE FELLOWSHIP NEWS ISSN 1018-144X\n\nPRAYING FOR JUSTICE\n(by Peter Hammond)\n\nTo those involved in ministering to Christians suffering\npersecution the imprecatory Psalms are a tremendous source of\ncomfort. And those of us who are fighting for the right to life\nof the preborn, or battling social evils such as pornography or\ncrime, are beginning to appreciate what an important weapon God\nhas entrusted to us in the imprecatory Psalms.\n\n\nTHE IMPRECATORY PSALMS\n\nEarly in my Christian walk I encountered the prayers for\njudgement in the Psalms and was quite at loss to know how to\nrespond to them. Prayers such as:\n"Break the arm of the wicked and evil men; call him to account for\nhis wickedness ..." Psalm 10:15 did not seem consistent with the\ngospel of love which I had accepted. Yet Psalm 10:15 was clearly\nmotivated by love for God ("The Lord is King for ever and ever;\nthe nation will perish from His land" 10:16, and "Why does the\nwicked man revile God? 10:13), and by love for the innocent who\nsuffer ("You hear, O Lord, the desire of the afflicted; You\nencourage them, and You listen to their cry, defending the\nfatherless and oppressed, in order that man, who is of the earth,\nmay terrify no more." 10:17-18)\n\nNevertheless, I grew increasingly uncomfortable reading such\ngraphic prayers for God to judge the wicked as: "Pour out your\nwrath on them; let Your fierce anger overtake them" 64:24; "O\nLord, the God avenges, O God who avenges, shine forth. Rise up, O\nJudge of the earth, pay back to the proud what they deserve."\n95:1-2; "Break the teeth in their mouths, O God; ...let them\nvanish like water .. let their arrows be blunted ... The\nrighteous will be glad when they are avenged, when they bathe\ntheir feet in the blood of the wicked. Then men will way, "Surely\nthe righteous still are rewarded; surely there is a God who\njudges the earth.\'" 58:6-11\n\nCertainly I wanted God to be honoured and yes I was deeply\ndestressed by the prevalence of evil - but could I actually pray\nfor God to "pour out His wrath" on the wicked?\n\nThe scripture make it clear that these prayers are not to be\nprayed for own selfish motives, nor against our personal enemies.\nRather they are to be prayed in Christ, for His glory and against\nHis enemies. The psalmist describes the targets of these\nimprecation as: those who devise injustice in their heart and\nwhose hands mete out violence (58:2) those who "boast of evil"\nand "are a disgrace in the eyes of God. Your tongue plots\ndestruction, it is like a sharpened razor, and you who practise\ndeceit. You love evil rather than good, falsehood rather than\nspeaking the truth." 52:1-3; "They crush your people ... They\nslay the widow and the alien; they murder the fatherless." 94:5-\n6; "With cunning they conspire against Your people; they plot\nagainst those You cherish." 83:3; "You hate all who do wrong. You\ndestroy those who tell lies; bloodthirsty and deceitful men the\nLord abhors." 5:5-6.\n\nTo those unrepentant enemies of God the psalmist declares:\n"Surely God will bring you down to everlasting ruin" 52:5;\n"Surely God will crush the heads of His enemies ... of those who\ngo on in their sins" 68:21.\n\nAnd the purpose of these prayers for justice is declared: "Then\nit will be known to the ends of the earth that God rules ..."\n59:13; "to proclaim the powers of God" 68:34; "All kings will bow\ndown to Him and all nations will serve Him " 72:11; "Who knows\nthe power of Your anger? For Your wrath is as great as the fear\nthat is due You. " 90:11\n\nYet despite the fact that 90 of the 150 Psalms include\nimprecations (prayers invoking God\'s righteous judgement upon the\nwicked) such prayers are rare in the average Western church.\nHowever, amongst the persecuted churches these prayers are much\nmore common.\n\n\nPRAYING AGAINST THE PERSECUTORS\n\nAmidst the burnt out churches and devastation of Marxist Angola I\nfound the survivors of communist persecution including the\ncrippled and maimed, and widows and orphans praying for God to\nstrike down the wicked and remove the persecutors of the Church.\nI was shocked - yet it was Biblical (Even the martyrs in heaven\npray "How long, Sovereign Lord, holy and true, until you judge\nthe inhabitants of the earth and avenge our blood?" Revelation\n6:10).\n\nThe initiator of the communist persecution in Angola was Agestino\nNeto. Described as a "drunken, psychotic, marxist poet", Neto had\nbeen installed by Cuban troops as the first dictator of Angola.\nHe boasted that: "Within 20 years there won\'t be a Bible or a\nchurch left in Angola. I will have eradicated Christianity." Yet\ndespite the vicious wave of church burning and massacres it is\nnot Christianity that was eradicated in Angola but Agestino Neto.\nNeto died in mysterious circumstances on an operating table in\nMoscow.\n\nIn Romania I learnt of a series of remarkable incidents recorded\nof God judging the persecutors of the Church in answer to prayer:\n * A communist official ordered a certain pastor to be\n arrested. the next day the official died of a heart attack.\n * Another communist party official ordered that all the Bibles\n in his district were to be collected and pulped, to be\n turned into toilet paper. This blasphemous project was in\n fact carried out. But the next day when the official was\n medically examined, he was informed that he had terminal\n cancer. He died shortly afterwards.\n * On another occasion, a communist official who had ordered a\n Baptist church to be demolished by bulldozers died in a car\n crash the very next day.\n * When an order was given to dismantle a place of worship on\n the mountainside in a forest, the workmen flatly refused to\n carry out the order. At gunpoint a group of conscripted\n gypsies also refused to touch the church. In desperation,\n the communist police forced prisoners at bayonet-point to\n dismantle the structure. Yet the officer in charge pleaded\n with the local Christians to pray for him, that God would\n not judge him. He emphasised that he had nothing against\n Christians and was only obeying strict orders. The building\n was in fact reconstructed later, and again used for worship.\n "They were all seized with Sear and the Name of the Lord\n Jesus was held in high honour... in this way the Word of the\n Lord spread widely and grew in power. " Acts 19:17,20\n\nNicolae Ceaucescu the dictator who ordered much of the\npersecution in Romania was overthrown by his own army and\nexecuted on Christmas day, 1989, to joyous shouts of "the\nantiChrist is dead" in the streets. Many testified that this was\nin answer to the fervent prayers of the long suffering people of\nRomania.\n\nAnother persecutor of the Church who challenged God was Samora\nMachel, the first dictator of Marxist Mozambique. Samora Machel\nwas a cannibal who ate human flesh in witchcraft ceremonies in\nthe 1960\'s. He pledged his soul to Satan and vowed that he would\ndestroy the Church and turn Mozambique into the first truly\nMarxist-Leninist state in Africa. Thousands of churches in\nMozambique were closed confiscated, "nationalised" chained and\npadlocked, burnt down or boarded up. Missionaries were expelled,\nsome being imprisoned first. Evangelism was forbidden. Bibles\nwere ceremonially burnt and tens of thousands of Christians,\nincluding many pastors and elders, were shipped off to\nconcentration camps - most were never seen again.\n\nA month before his sudden death Samora Machel cursed God publicly\nand challenged Him to prove His existence by striking him\n(Machel) dead. On 19 October 1986, while several churches were\nspecifically praying for God to stop the persecution in\nMozambique, Machel\'s Soviet Tupelov aircraft crashed in a violent\nthunderstorm. The plane crashed 200 metres within South Africa\'s\nboundary with Mozambique. Amidst the wreckage the marxist plans\nfor overthrowing the government of Malawi were discovered and\npublished. Not only had God judged a blasphemer and a persecutor,\nbut He had also saved a country from persecution.\n\nIn the months leading up to the first multi-party elections in\nZambia many churches fasted and prayed tor God to remove the 27\nyear socialist dictatorship of Kenneth Kaunda. This was done on\n31st October 1991 when Fredrick Chiluba (a man converted to\nChrist whilst imprisoned for opposing Kaunda) was elected\npresident of Zambia and covenanted to make Zambia a Christian\ncountry.\n\nIt is recorded in history that the wicked Mary, Queen of Scots,\ndeclared trembling and in tears: "I am more afraid of John Knox\'s\nprayers than of an army of ten thousand".\n\nOn 3 April 1993 the Secretary General of the South African\nCommunist Party Chris Hani was shot dead. From the unprecedented\ninternational wave of condolences and adulation reported one\ncould be forgiven for assuming that this man was a saint and a\nmartyr. Certainly it was not the death and resurrection of Christ\nJesus which dominated the thoughts and headlines of South Africa\nthis Easter, but the assassination of Chris Hani.\n\nThe stunning hypocrisy of the situation is that 20 135 people\nwere murdered in South Africa in 1992, yet more collective\nconcern and anguish were reported over the death of the head of\nthe SA Communist Party than for all the thousands of other\nvictims. Indeed the SA government, the international community\nand the mass media have apparently had greater sorrow reported\nover this one death than for all the 50 000 South Africans\nmurdered since 2nd February 1990 when the ANC, SACP and PAC were\nunbanned!\n\nYet as a member of the ANC Revolutionary Council since 1973,\nDeputy Commander of Umkhonto we Sizwe (MK) the ANC\'s "military\nwing" - from 1982, and Chief of Staff of MK from 1987, Chris Hani\nhad approved and ordered bombings and assassinations of many\nunarmed civilians. As Jesus warned: "all who live by the sword\nwill die by the sword " Matt 26:52.\n\nAfter personally confronting Hani about his terrorist activities\nat a press conference in Washington DC (where he publicly\ndeclared his support for Fidel Castro, Col. Gaddafi, Yasser\nArafat and Saddam Hussein and defended the placing of car bombs\nand limpet mines in public places during "the struggle") I told\nhim that I was a Christian and, while I didn\'t hate him, I did\nhate communism and I was praying for him - that God would either\nbring him to repentance and salvation in Christ, or that God\nwould remove him. He responded by swearing and declaring that he\nwas an atheist.\n\nSeveral other people also prayed that God would either bring Hani\nto repentance or remove him. Similarly several churches in\nAmerica have begun to pray the imprecatory Psalms against\nunrepentant abortionists. In one town 8 abortionists were struck\ndown, with heart attacks, strokes, car accidents and cancer,\nwithin months of these public prayers for God to stop these\nkillers of preborn babies.\n\nSome praised God for His righteous acts of judgement and quoted:\n"When justice is done, it brings joy to the righteous and terror\nto evildoers " Proverbs 21:15. Others were shocked that any\nChristian could express satisfaction at the misfortune of any -\neven of the blatantly wicked. Yet the Apostles prayed imprecatory\nprayers (Acts 13:8-12; Galatians 1:8-9; 2 Tim 4:14-15) and so did\nour Lord (Matt 11:20-24).\n\nWhat then should our attitude towards the imprecatory Psalms be?\nShould we be praying the Psalms? To tackle these thorny issues I\nwould like to present a short summary of an excellent book, "War\nPsalms of the Prince of Peace - Lessons From The Imprecatory\nPsalms" by James E Adams, (published by the Presbyterian and\nReformed Publishing Company):\n\nOur Lord Jesus Christ & His apostles used the Psalms constantly\nin teaching men to know God. The New Testament (NT) quotes the\nOld Testament (OT) over 283 times. 41% of all OT quotes in the NT\nare from the Psalms. Christ Himself alluded to the Psalms over 50\ntimes. The Psalms are the Prayer Book of the Bible.\n\n\n1. Are the imprecatory Psalms the oracles of God?\n\nSome Christian commentators & theologians reject these Psalms as\n"devilish", "diabolical ", "unsuited to the church", and "Not God\n\'s pronouncements of His wrath on the wicked; but the prayers of\na man for vengeance on his enemies, just the opposite of Jesus\'\nteaching that we should love our enemies. "\n\nYet 2 Tim 3:16-17 declares:\n"All Scripture is God breathed and is useful for teaching,\nrebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the\nman of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work. "\n(see also 2 Peter 3:15-16).\n\nThe fact that something in the Word of God is beyond our\ncomprehension is not grounds to denying or even questioning its\ninspiration. To make ourselves the judge of what is good or evil\nis to impudently take the place of God.\n\nDo we imagine ourselves to be holier than God? Wrong ideas of God\nhave led many to become "evangelic plastic surgeons who have made\nit their job to "clean up" God\'s Word according to their own\nideas of what is proper. They have forgotten that it is God alone\nwho must determine what Christianity is and what is suitable for\nHis Church. The essence of what many have done is to question the\nauthority of God\'s Word (like Eve\'s original sin of listening to\nSatan\'s question "Yes, hath God said... ?").\n\nThe Psalms are part of God\'s revelation of Himself and His\nattributes, and they are reaffirmed by the NT as the\nauthoritative Word of God. Those imprecatory Psalms which these\nevangelical plastic surgeons reject as "unsuited" and "unworthy"\nfor the Church are the very Psalms Christ used to testify about\nHimself (eg: Mark 12:36; Matt 22:43-44) and which the Apostles\nused as authoritative Scripture (eg: Acts 1:16-20; Acts 4:25; Heb\n4:7). See also: 2 Samuel 23:1-2.\n\nCH Spurgeon said concerning the imprecatory Psalms, (especially\nPs 109):\n"Truly this is one of the hard places of Scripture, a passage\nwhich the soul trembles to read, yet it is not ours to sit in\njudgement upon it, but to bow our ear to what the Lord would\nspeak to us therein. "\n\nThe rejection of any part of God\'s Word is a rejection of the\ngiver of that Word, God Himself.\n\n\n2. Who is praying these Psalms?\n\nChrist quoted the Psalms not merely as prophesy; He actually\nspoke the Psalms as His own words. The Psalms occupied an\nenormous place in the life of our Lord. He used it as His prayer\nbook and song book - from the Synagogue to the festivals and at\nthe Last Supper.\n\nOn the cross Christ quoted from the Psalms - not as some ancient\nauthority that He adapted for His own use, but as His very own\nwords - the words of the Lord\'s Anointed - which as David\'s Son\nHe truly was.\n"Father, into your hands I commit my Spirit" Ps 31:5\n"My God, My God, why have you forsaken me?" Ps 22:1\n\nIn His ministry Christ foretells what He will say as the Judge on\nthe day of judgement, and He quotes the Psalms in doing so!\nMatt 7:23 "Then I will tell them plainly, \'I never knew you. Away\nfrom me, you evildoers\'. " Ps 6:8\n\nIn Heb 10:5 the apostle attributes Ps 40:6-8 directly to Christ\nalthough nowhere in the Gospels is Christ recorded as having said\nthese words. Similarly Hebrews 2 : 12 attributes Ps 22:22\ndirectly to Christ despite there being no record of His having\nspoken these words while on earth. Clearly the apostles believed\nChrist is speaking in the Psalms.\n\nChrist came to establish His kingdom and to extend His mercy in\nall the earth. But let us never forget that Jesus will come again\nto execute Judgement on the wicked.\nDavid as the anointed king of the chosen people of God was a\nprototype of Jesus Christ. Acts 2:30:\n"being therefore a prophet, ... he foresaw and spoke of the\nresurrection of Christ. "\nDavid was a witness to Christ in his office, in his lite, and in\nhis words. The same words which David spoke, the future Messiah\nspoke through him. The prayers of David were prayed also by\nChrist. Or better Christ Himself prayed these Psalms through His\nforerunner David.\n\nThe imprecatory Psalms are expressions of the infinite justice of\nGod, of His indignation against wrong doing, and His compassion\nfor the wronged.\n\n\n3. But what about the Psalms of repentance?\n\nChrist is also the Lamb of God, the substitutionary sacrifice for\nour sins. Christ in the day of His crucifixion was charged with\nthe sin of His people. He appropriated to Himself those debts for\nwhich He had made Himself responsible. Our Lord was the\nsubstitution for the sinner. He took the sinners place (Isaiah\n53).\n\n"God made Him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in Him we\nmight become the righteousness of God. " 2 Cor 5:21\n\nIn history the Psalms, especially the imprecatory Psalms, have\nbeen understood to have been the prayers of Christ by: St\nAugustine, Jerome, Ambrose, Tertullian, Luther and many others.\nAll the Psalms are the voice of Christ. Christ is praying the\nimprecatory Psalms! All the Psalms are messianic. It is the Lord\nJesus Christ who is praying these prayers of vengeance. It is\nonly right for the righteous King of Peace to ask God to destroy\nHis enemies.\n\nThese prayers signal an alarm to all who are still enemies of\nKing Jesus. His prayers will be answered! God\'s Word is revealed\nupon all who oppose Christ. Anyone who rejects God\'s way of\nforgiveness in the cross of Christ will bear the dreadful curses\nof God.\n\nHe who prays Psalm 69:23-28 will one day make this prayer a\nreality when He declares to those on His left:\n"Depart from me you who are cursed into the eternal fire prepared\nfor the devil and his angels. " Matt 25:41\n\nAll the enemies of the Lord need to hear these Psalms. *God\'s\nKingdom is at War.* The powers of evil will tall and God alone\nwill reign forever!\n"With justice He judges and makes war...out of His mouth comes a\nsharp sword with which to strike down the nations. He will rule\nthem with an iron sceptre; He treads the winepress of the fury of\nthe wrath of God Almighty...King of Kings and Lord of Lords. "\nRev 19 : 15\n\n\n4. Are Jesus\' prayers contradictory?\n\nWhat about Jesus\' command to love our enemies and to bless those\nwho curse us (Matt 5:44)?\n\nChrist is of course the loving and merciful Saviour who forgives\nsin; but He is also the awesome Judge who is coming in Judgement\non those who disobey His Gospel.\n\n"God is just. He will pay back trouble to those who trouble you\nand give relief to you who are troubled...This will happen when\nthe Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven in blazing fire with His\npowerful angels. He will punish those who do not obey the Gospel\nof our Lord Jesus. They will be punished with everlasting\ndestruction and shut out from the presence of the Lord and from\nthe majesty of His power on the day He comes to be glorified in\nHis holy people and to be marvelled at among au those who have\nbelieved. " 2 Thess 1:6-10\n\nJesus has power on earth to forgive sins, and He has power on\nearth to execute judgement upon His enemies. In the Psalms we see\nboth the vengeance and the love ot God.\n\nEven in the N.T. & in the Gospels we see imprecations.\n"Woe to you,...hypocrites...blind guides...blind fools...full of\ngreed and self indulgence...whitewashed tombs...you snakes! You\nbrood of vipers! How will you escape being condemned to Hell ? "\nMatt 23\n\nIn Matt 26:23-24 Christ quotes from Ps 69 and 109 to refer to His\nbetrayal by Judas.\n\nWe also need to acknowledge that Christ\'s prayers of blessing are\nnot for all. In John 17:6-9 it is clear that Christ is only\npraying to the elect of God - those who have:\n"obeyed your Word"... "accepted" God\'s Word ... and have\n"believed ". (see Luke 10:8-16 - Those who reject the\nmessage of God\'s kingdom will be judged.)\n\n\n5. May we pray the imprecatory Psalms?\n\nMartin Luther pointed out that when one prays: "Hallowed be Thy\nName, Thy Kingdom come, Thy will be done " then "he must put all\nthe opposition to this in one pile and say: \'Curses, maledictions\nand disgrace upon every other name and every other kingdom. May\nthey be ruined and torn apart and may all their schemes and\nwisdom and plans run aground\' . "\n\nTo pray tor the extension of God\'s kingdom is to solicit the\ndestruction of all other kingdoms, eg: Dan 2:44: "The God of\nheaven will set up a kingdom that will never be destroyed ... it\nwill crush all those kingdoms and bring them to an end, but it\nwill itself endure forever. "\n\n* Advance and victory for the Church means defeat and retreat for\nthe kingdom of darkness. *\n\nThere is a life & death struggle between two kingdoms. The Church\ncannot exclude hatred tor satan\'s kingdom from its love for God\'s\nkingdom. God\'s kingdom cannot come without satan\'s kingdom being\ndestroyed. God\'s will cannot be done on earth without the\ndestruction of evil. The glory of God demands the destruction of\nevil. Instead of being influenced by a sickly sentimentalism\nwhich insists upon the assumed, but really non-existent, rights\nof man - we should focus instead upon the rights of God.\n\nNote Psalm 83 where the Psalmist prays against those who "plot\ntogether" against God and His people:\n"Cover their faces with shame so that men will seek your Name O\nLord... Do to them as You did to Midian, as you did to Sisera and\nJabin at the river Kishon, who perished at Endor and became like\nrefuse on the ground. "\n\nThe story of Sisera in the book of Judges (Chapter 4 and 5)\nprovides a vivid example of God\'s judgement on the wicked. Sisera\n"cruelly oppressed the Israelites for twenty years" and they\n"cried to the Lord for help" Judges 4:3. In response to those\nprayers: "The Lord routed Sisera and all his chariots and army by\nthe sword, and Sisera abandoned his chariot and fled on foot...\nAll the troops of Sisera fell by the sword; not a man was left. "\nJudges 4:15-16\n\nThe account then goes on to describe how Sisera escaped to the\ntent of Jael where she lulled him into a false sense of safety\nand then drove a tent peg through his temple with a hammer. The\nsong of victory by Deborah and Barak celebrated the crushing of\nthe head of Sisera in graphic detail (Judges 5:25-27). And it is\nthis that Psalm 83 implores God to again do to His enemies.. "As\nyou did to Sisera ..."\n\n\n6. The blessings of obedience and the curse of disobedience\n\nThe imprecatory Psalms are fully consistent with the Law of God:\n "If you do not carefully follow all the words of this Law,\n which are written in this book, and do not revere this\n glorious and awesome Name - the Lord your God - the Lord\n will send fearful plagues on you and your descendants. He\n will bring upon you all the diseases of Egypt that you\n dreaded, and they will cling to you. The Lord will also\n bring on you every kind of sickness and disaster not\n recorded in this Book of the Law until you are\n destroyed...because you did not obey the Lord your God ...\n so it will please Him to ruin and destroy you. You will be\n uprooted from the land you are entering to possess. "\n Deuteronomy 28:58-63\n\nThe covenant God made with His people included curses for\ndisobedience as well as blessings for obedience. Deuteronomy 27\nrecords the formal giving and receiving of the covenant terms in\nan awesome account:\n"The Levites shall recite to all the people of Israel in a loud\nvoice:\n"Cursed is the man who carves an image or casts an idol - a thing\ndetestable to the Lord, the work of the craftsman\'s hands - and\nsets it up in secret. "\nThen all the people shall say, "Amen!" "\n"Cursed is the man who dishonours his father or his mother...\n"Cursed is the man who moves his neighbour\'s boundary stone...\n"Cursed is the man who leads the blind astray on the roads...\n"Cursed is the man who withholds justice from the alien, the\nfatherless or the widow...\n"Cursed is the man who kills his neighbour secretly...\n"Cursed is the man who accepts a bribe to kill an innocent\nperson.\n"Cursed is the man who does not uphold the words of the Law by\ncarrying them out.\nThen all the people shall say, "Amen!" " Deut 27:14-26\n\nThe New Testament confirms that the inevitable consequence of\nrejecting Christ is the curse. "If anyone does not love the\nLord - a curse be on him. " 1 Corinthians 16:22\n\n(See also: Romans 12:19-21; Hebrews 1:1-3; 3:7-12; 3:1519; 10:26-\n31; 12:14-29.)\n\n\n7. How can we preach these prayers?\n\nThe Church of Jesus Christ is an army under orders.\nScripture constitutes the official dispatch from the Commander-\nin-Chief. But we have a problem: those who are called to pass on\nthose orders to others are refusing to do so. How then can we\nexpect to be a united, effective army? Is it any wonder that the\ntroops have lost sight of their commission to demolish the\nstrongholds of the kingdom of darkness? If the Church does not\nhear the battle cries of her Captain, how will she follow Him\nonto the battlefield?\n\nPastors are commissioned to pass on the orders of the Church\'s\nCommander, never withholding or changing His words. One whose job\nis to carry dispatches to troops in wartime would face certain\nand severe punishment if he dared to amend the general\'s orders.\nThe pastor\'s charge is of greater importance than that of a\ncourier in any earthly army. There\'s no place tor the dispatcher\nto decide he doesn\'t agree with his Commander\'s strategy.\n\nWhen Jesus Christ sent seventy-two disciples on a preaching\nmission, He told them to proclaim the coming of God\'s Kingdom (Lk\n10:9) - that is, to announce that people must submit to God\'s\nrule in their lives. Jesus instructed them to pray for peace on\nany house they approach, assuring them that if anyone rejected\nit, the peace would return on the disciples (verse 5). But we\nmust consider what He said they should do if their message were\nrejected - that is, if the hearers persisted in rebellion against\nGod\'s rule - "But when you enter a town and are not welcomed, go\ninto its \'streets and say, \'Even the dust of your town that\nsticks to our feet we wipe off against you. Yet be sure of this:\nThe kingdom of God is near"\' Luke 10:11.\n\nWhat would be the result of that denunciation? I tell you, it\nwill be more bearable on that day for Sodom [on which God sent\nfire from Heaven in judgement for its wickedness] than for that\ntown (verse 12). Immediately Jesus added curses on Korazin,\nBethsaida, and Capernaum tor their rejection of His message\n(verses 13-15). He then explained to the disciples the great\nauthority He had given them: "He who listens to you listens to\nMe; he who rejects you rejects Me; but he who rejects Me rejects\nhim who sent Me " (verse 16). This is the fundamental basis tor\ncalling down God\'s curses on anyone: his persistent rebellion\nagainst God\'s authority expressed in His Law and the ministry of\nHis servants.\n\nWe need to clearly and forcefully proclaim the war cries of the\nPrince of Peace. Only then will the Church awake from its\nlethargy and once again enter the battle. If we tail to pass on\nthe battle cry then a lack of urgency and confusion in the ranks\nwill be inevitable.\n\nLike Psalm 1 our preaching needs to clearly show the blessings of\nobedience and the curse of disobedience. The eternal truth is\nthat God cannot be mocked. Whatever a man sows - that shall he\nreap (Galatians 6:7). The curses pronounced on disobedience in\nDeut 28:47-53 were fulfilled in detail in Samaria (2 Kings\n6:2&29) and in Judea (AD 70). The wrath of God upon covenant\nbreakers is real.\n\nThe "I" of the Psalms is Jesus Christ. The "we" of the Psalms\nincludes those of us in the Lord Jesus. The enemies are not our\nown, individually, but those of the Lord and of His Church. The\nPsalms are ot Christ as Prophet, Priest, and King. They record\nChrist\'s march in victory against the kingdom of darkness. As\nChrist is the author of the Psalms, so, too, is He the final\nfulfilment of the covenant on which they are based. God will\nanswer the psalmist\'s prayers completely in Jesus Christ on the\nfinal day of judgment. While on earth Jesus foretold the day when\nHe will say: "But those enemies of Mine who did not want Me to be\nKing over them - bring them here and kill them in front of Me"\nLuke 19:27.\n\nA fatal end awaits everyone who refuses to acknowledge and to\nobey Jesus as King and Lord. Hearing expositions of these war\npsalms of the Prince of Peace will remind His people that God\'s\nkingdom is at war! The kingdom of darkness is being overcome by\nthe kingdom of Jesus Christ, a war in which each local\ncongregation of believers plays a vital part. You must rally your\nbattalion to put on the whole armour of God, including "the sword\nof the Spirit, which is the Word of God " Eph 6:17. That battle-\nreadiness also involves "pray(ing) in the Spirit on all occasions\nwith all kinds of prayers and requests n Eph 6:18.\n\nChrist teaches His army to pray for the utter destruction of the\nenemies of God as the psalmist did: "Pour out Your wrath on the\nnations that do not acknowledge You, on the kingdoms that do not\ncall on Your Name" Ps 79:6.\n\nTo deal with the very real hurts and injustices in this world it\nis necessary for us to pray for God\'s justice. Those who are\npersecuted need the comfort of these prayers.\n\n"Let the saints rejoice in His honour and sing for joy...May the\npraise of God be in their mouths and a double-edged sword in\ntheir hands, to inflict vengeance on the nations and punishment\non the peoples, to bind their kings with fetters, their nobles\nwith shackles of iron, to carry out the sentences written against\nthem. This is the glory of all His saints. Praise the Lord. " Ps\n149:5-9\n\nPrayer is, in fact, spiritual warfare. One weapon is prayer for\nconversion of spiritual enemies; another is prayer for judgement\non those who finally refuse to be converted. We handicap the army\nof God when we refuse to use both of these great weapons that He\nhas given us. It is at all times a part of the task of the people\nnf God to destroy evil.\n\nIf you have been guilty of dulling your sword, by neglecting or\nundermining these psalms, repent of that sin, sharpen your sword\nanew, and go forth to do battle in the Name and for the Glory of\nJesus - until "the knowledge of the Lord will cover the earth as\nthe waters cover the sea" Hab 2:14.\n\nThe full book "War Psalms of the Prince of Peace " is available,\nat R25, from Frontline Fellowship, PO Box 74 Newlands, 7725 RSA.\n\n\nPERMISSION TO REPRODUCE\nThose wishing to reproduce or quote from any edition of FF News\nare encouraged to do so. We only request that due acknowledgement\nof the source be mentioned and that a copy be sent to us.\n',
"From: hudson@athena.cs.uga.edu (Paul Hudson Jr)\nSubject: Re: earthquake prediction\nOrganization: University of Georgia, Athens\nLines: 20\n\nIn article <May.11.02.37.28.1993.28163@athos.rutgers.edu> dan@ingres.com (a Rose arose) writes:\n\n>4--were God to call me to be a prophet and I were to misrepresent God's Word,\n> my calling would be lost forever. God's Word would command the people\n> never to listen to or fear my words as I would be a false prophet. My\n> bridges would be burnt forever. Perhaps I could repent and be saved, but\n> I could never again be a prophet of God.\n\nThough there is a command in the law not to heed to one who prophecies \nfalsely, it is still possible for the one who has prophecied falsely\nto prophecy truely again. Take, for example the story in Kings about the\nman of God from Judah who came to israel and prophecied against a king.\nThe Lord had commanded him to not eat or drink till he returned home.\nAnother prophet wanted this man of God to stay in his house, so he\nprophecied falsely that the Lord wanted the man of God to stay in his \nhouse. While they ate and drank in his house, the Lord gave the prophet\nwho lied a word that the man of God would die from breaking the word of\nthe Lord. It came to pass.\n\nLink Hudson.\n",
"From: shellgate!llo@uu4.psi.com (Larry L. Overacker)\nSubject: Re: If There Were No Hell\nOrganization: Shell Oil\nLines: 21\n\nIn article <May.9.05.38.07.1993.27316@athos.rutgers.edu> u0mrm@csc.liv.ac.uk (M.R. Mellodew) writes:\n>In article <May.5.02.51.25.1993.28737@athos.rutgers.edu>, shellgate!llo@uu4.psi.com (Larry L. Overacker) writes:\n>\n>> Fear-based religion is not a faith-relationship with the\n>> One Who made us all.\n>\n>So does that mean that anyone who is a Christian to avoid Hell isn't really\n>a Christian at all? It sounds like it to me.\n\nIf that's the ONLY reason, I'd be inclined to doubt whether or not what\nthey profess is Christianity. The relationship of faith is based upon\ntrust. Fear and trust are generally incompatible. If my only motivation\nis fear, is there room for trust? If so, there's room for faith. \nIf fear precludes trust, then there can't be faith.\n\nLarry Overacker (llo@shell.com)\n-- \n-------\nLawrence Overacker\nShell Oil Company, Information Center Houston, TX (713) 245-2965\nllo@shell.com\n",
'From: agr00@ccc.amdahl.com (Anthony G Rose)\nSubject: *****TO EVERYONE IN DIALOG WITH TONY ROSE***** Please Read This!\nReply-To: agr00@juts.ccc.amdahl.com ()\nOrganization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA\nLines: 17\n\nHello everyone. I just wanted to let everyone know that I have just\nbeen selected as part of the Reduction In Force here at Amdahl. For all\nthat are currently in a dialog with me, or are waiting letters from me,\nI have saved your letters on floppy and will continue when I get back\non the net from another account in the future.\n\nFor those who are on the GEnie network, my email address there is:\n\n T.ROSE1\n\nGod Bless and Goodbye until then. If you want to continue dialogs with\nme via US MAIL, I can be contacted at:\n\n Tony Rose\n c/o JUDE 3 MISSIONS\n P.O. Box 1035\n Felton, CA 95018\n',
"From: fitz@cse.ogi.edu (Bob Fitzsimmons)\nSubject: Re: VGA Graphics Library\nKeywords: C, library, graphics\nArticle-I.D.: ogicse.53715\nOrganization: Oregon Grad. Inst. Computer Science and Eng., Beaverton\nLines: 26\n\nIn article <2054@mwca.UUCP> bill@mwca.UUCP (Bill Sheppard) writes:\n>Many high-end graphics cards come with C source code for doing basic graphics\n>sorts of things (change colors, draw points/lines/polygons/fills, etc.). Does\n>such a library exist for generic VGA graphics cards/chips, hopefully in the\n>public domain? This would be for the purpose of compiling under a non-DOS\n>operating system running on a standard PC.\n>\n\nI'm also interested in info both public domain and commercial graphics library \npackage to do PC VGA graphics. \n\nI'm currently working on a realtime application running on a PCC with a \nnon-DOS kernel that needs to do some simple graphics. I'm not sure if \nreentrancy of the graphics library is going to be an issue or not. \nI suspect I'll implement the display controller as a server process that \nhandles graphics requests, queued on a mailbox, one at a time. If this \nprovides sufficiently frequent display updates then I believe that I can \nrestrict all graphics operations to be performed by the server and thus \nconstrain access to the library to a this single process and avoid the need\nfor a reentrant graphics library. \n\nBeing fairly new to the realtime systems world I may be overlooking something,\nwhat do you think?\n\nCheers,\nBob Fitzsimmons\t\tfitz@cse.ogi.edu\t\t(503)297-3165\n",
'From: dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer)\nSubject: Re: Antihistamine for sleep aid\nOrganization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA\n\nIn article <1993Apr29.052044.23918@nmt.edu> houle@nmt.edu (Paul Houle) writes:\n>\tAnyway, I am looking for advice for the use of\n>antihistamines as sleep aids, and if there are any dangers of such use\n>(Seems safe to me since they are used chronically for allergies by\n>millions). I don\'t want to try BZs, because BZ addiction seems to be\n>a serious threat, and from what I hear, BZ sleep quality is not good,\n>whereas antihistamine sleep quality seems to be better for me. I have\n>tried some dietary tryptophan loading stuff, and that also seems to\n>lower sleep quality, I seem to wake up around 4:00 or so and be in some\n>kind of mental haze until 7:00 or 8:00. Also, I would be interested in\n>any other advice for helping my problem. (Although I\'ve already tried\n>many of the non-pharmacological solutions)\n\nWell, I think you might want to visit a doctor who is familiar with\nsleep disturbances, because antihistamines only help induce sleep when\nthey\'re used intermittently; they lose their sedative effect if they\'re\nused on a nightly basis. Their anticholinergic effects (drying of secretions,\nrelaxing effects on smooth muscle) can be problematic in some people, such as\nthose with glaucoma or prostate enlargement.\n\nAntihistamines like diphenhydramine (Benadryl) or doxylamine (Unisom)\nare potent sedatives which are useful occasionally. Chlorpheniramine\n(Chlor-Trimeton) is said to be less sedative, but 8mg seems to work\nwell in some people. Both chlorpheniramine and doxylamine have long\nhalf-lives compared to diphenhydramine, and so may produce a residual\nhangover or "drugged" feeling the next morning.\n\n-- \nSteve Dyer\ndyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer\n',
'From: jbrown@batman.bmd.trw.com\nSubject: Re: Gulf War and Peace-niks\nDistribution: world\nLines: 44\n\nIn article <1r4lva$5vq@fido.asd.sgi.com>, livesey@solntze.wpd.sgi.com (Jon Livesey) writes:\n> In article <1993Apr20.102306.882@batman.bmd.trw.com>, jbrown@batman.bmd.trw.com writes:\n> |> In article <1993Apr20.062328.19776@bmerh85.bnr.ca>, \n> |> dgraham@bmers30.bnr.ca (Douglas Graham) writes:\n> |> \n> |> [...]\n\n[....]\n> |> \n> |> Wait a minute, Doug. I know you are better informed than that. The US \n> |> has never invaded Nicaragua (as far as I know).\n> \n> The US invaded Nicaragua several times this century, including \n> October 1912, andf again in February 1927.\n> \n> Haiti was occupied in 1915.\n\nThanks Jon. I had forgotten about the 1912 and 1927 invasions (if I had\never learned of them. I mean I *really* forgot!) But I read the context\nas more recent, such as when the Sandinistas were expecting an "imminent"\ninvasion from the U.S. which never happened.\n\nI stand corrected. Thanks.\n\n> \n> |> Panama we invaded, true (twice this century). \n> \n> The US created Panama in the first place by fomenting and then\n> intervening in a civil war in the then-Republic of Colombia.\n> \n> US troops landed in Colombia, to "help" with the uprising, and then\n> Colombia was duly dismembered and replaced by two countries, in \n> order that the US could build the Panama Canal in the new Republic\n> of Panama.\n> \n\nI remembered this one. This one and Bush\'s invasion were the two I\nmentioned above. Good ol\' Teddy R.-- he knew how to get things done!\n\n> jon.\n\nRegards,\n\nJim B.\n',
'From: nyeda@cnsvax.uwec.edu (David Nye)\nSubject: College atheists\nOrganization: University of Wisconsin Eau Claire\nLines: 10\n\nI read an article about a poll done of students at the Ivy League\nschools in which it was reported that a third of the students\nindentified themselves as atheists. This is a lot higher than among the\ngeneral population. I wonder what the reasons for this discrepancy are?\nIs it because they are more intelligent? Younger? Is this the wave of\nthe future?\n \nDavid Nye (nyeda@cnsvax.uwec.edu). Midelfort Clinic, Eau Claire WI\nThis is patently absurd; but whoever wishes to become a philosopher\nmust learn not to be frightened by absurdities. -- Bertrand Russell\n',
'From: alisonjw@spider.co.uk (Alison J Wyld)\nSubject: Re: Dreams and out of body incidents\nOrganization: Spider Systems Limited, Edinburgh, UK.\nLines: 40\n\nIn article <May.11.02.37.40.1993.28185@athos.rutgers.edu> dt4%cs@hub.ucsb.edu (David E. Goggin) writes:\n>I\'d like to get your comments on a question that has been on my mind a\n>lot: What morals/ethics apply to dreams and out-of-body incidents?\n>In normal dreams, you can\'t control anything, so obviously\n>you aren\'t morally responsible for your actions. But if you can contrive\n>to control the action in dreams or do an OOBE, it seems like a morality applies.\n>\n\nWell I am one of those (apparently) odd people who can sometimes\ncontrol their dreams. For example, I might decide before going to\nsleep that I want to repeat a favourite dream, or dream about a\nspecific place. Or if I am having an unpleasant dream, I can often\n(not always) redirect events to something more pleasant.\n\nI guess I think that the same standards apply in these "directed"\ndreams as apply in waking fantasies or real life (ref Jesus teaching\nabout looking at a woman lustfully being the same a committing\nadultary).\n\nWhen my normal dreams display themes that I would not conciously chose\nto dream about, I take that as a sign that all is not well with my\n"inner life" - maybe I have underlying tenstions/fears that need to be\nresolved, or maybe its straightforward sin. In either case, the cause\nneeds to be resolved. \n\nIn fact, either case is pretty rare. I don\'t\noften remember dreams that I don\'t chose to have. When I do, they\nalmost always tell me something important.\nI also almost never dream in pictures, and especially not in colour\n(in fact I\'ve had precisely one full colour picture dream that I can\nremember, and it was definately spiritually important)\nI tend to dream in sound, with the odd blurred image, in black and\nwhite.\n\nInteresting topic - I\'ll be fascinated to read other responses.\n\nAlison\n\nPS. Just to make it clear, I don\'t do ( and have never tried ) OOBEs.\n I tend to think they are off limits for Christians.\n',
'From: hudson@athena.cs.uga.edu (Paul Hudson Jr)\nSubject: Re: SATANIC TOUNGES\nOrganization: University of Georgia, Athens\nLines: 60\n\nIn article <May.9.05.40.36.1993.27495@athos.rutgers.edu> koberg@spot.Colorado.EDU (Allen Koberg) writes:\n>There seem to be many points to the speaking in tongues thing which\n>are problematic. It\'s use as prayer language seems especially troubling\n>to me. I understand that when you pray in tongues, the spirit is doing\n>the talking. And when you pray, you pray to God. And the Spirit is\n>God. So, the Spirit is talking to Himself. Which is why I only go\n>by the Pentecost use where it\'s an actual language.\n\nWhat is wrong with "the Spirit talking to Himself." Jesus intercedes\nfor us, and Romans 8:26-27 tell of how the Spirit intercedes for\nus before God. That is no theological problem. Tounges as a prayer\nlanguage finds support in I Corinthians 14:14-18.\n\n\n>Moreover, the phrase "though I speak with the tongues of men and angels"\n>used by Paul in I Cor. is misleading out of context. Some would then\n>assume that there is some angelic tongue, and if when they speak, it\n>is no KNOWN language, then it is an angelic tongue.\n\nIts true that this could be (and has been) used as a rug to sweep\nany difficulties under. But it is a valid point. Paul does mention\nangelic tounges in the verse. \n\n\n>Hmmm...in the old testament story about the tower of Babel, we see how\n>God PUNISHED by giving us different language. Can we assume then that\n>if angels have their own language at all, that they have the SAME one\n>amongst other angels? After all, THEY were not punished in any manner.\n\nIf the languages we sepak are the result of Babel, then it stands to\nreason that angels would speak a different language from us. You do \nhave a valid point about multiple angelic languages. But angelic\nbeings maybe of different species so to speak. maybe different species\ncommunicate differently. \n\n>Trouble is, while such stories abound, any and all attempts at\n>verification (and we are to test the spirit...) either show that\n>the witness had no real idea of the circumstances, or that outright\n>fabrication was involved. The Brother Puka story in a previous post\n>seems like a "friend of a friend" thing. And linguistically, a two\n>syllable word hardly qualifies as language, inflection or no.\n\nI have heard an eyewitness account, myself. Such things are hard to prove.\nThey don\'t lend themselves to a laboratory thing very well. I don\';t\nknow if it is a very holy thing to take gifts into a laboratory anyway.\n\n>Much as many faith healers have trouble proving their "victories" (since\n>most ailments "cured" are just plain unprovable) and modern day\n>ressurrections have never been validated, so is it true that no\n>modern day xenoglossolalia has been proved by clergy OR lay.\n\nThat\'s an unprovable statement. How can you prove if somethings been proved?\nThere is no way to know that you\'ve seen all the evidence. Once I \nsaw an orthodontists records complete with photographs showing how one of\nhis patients severe underbite was cured by constant prayer. \n\nJohn G. Lakes once prayed for someone and saw them healed in a laboratory,\naccording to "Adventures in God." Its an interesting book.\n\nLink\n',
'From: flirt@camelot.bradley.edu (Karen Lauro)\nSubject: Re: How I got saved...\nOrganization: Bradley University\nLines: 42\n\n>Well, I was certainly turned off by that first paragraph of oft-used\n>platitudes. I can\'t count the times I\'ve heard those common tactics\n>anymore...\'you may not believe it but that doesn\'t change the fact\n>that it\'s true\'...the old analogy about trusting your parents...sheesh.\n>Need I point out how parents can show children that they are right?\n>That difference in capability alone crushes that analogy, as any \'facts\'\n>about Christianity I have seen turned out to be beliefs. What I seek is\n>fact--knowledge--if I can get it, and evidence for a belief if I can\'t.\n>So far from Christians I have received neither...\n\nBefore becoming a Christian I too had problems when I asked one to explain\nit to me...The actual evidence is not always what you see on a person\'s \noutside. It should be but is not always.\n\tA very specific, somewhat miraculous example of the truth of God\nworking to help His followers is soemthing that happened to me. For nearly\n4 years after an accident I had severe complications from a triple \nfracture in my left leg and surgery--pins put in, then removed. The bone \nitself was perfectly healed. No infectoin that could be detected. Yet I \nwas in constant pain and it my ankle and foot were always swollen and\nbluish. More complicatios developed in my other leg, none of which could\nbe explained by the best specialists and most sophisticated tests in te\nnorthern Illinois region. We went everywhere--no one could explain it.\nDurin gthat summer (June 19, 1991 to be exact) I gave my life and heart\nto Christ and vowed to relinquish control over my life (which i never\nreally had anyway) because of what he did for me on the cross and the \nfact that my whole life was screwed up by me trying to fix it. I was facing\nthe possibility of a lifetime in a wheelchair (I was confined to one in \norder to save my legs from any further damage since the cause of my problems\nwere unknown, had been in it for about 2 1/2 months before that day).\n\tI found it ore than coincidental that less than 2 weeks after\nI put my faith where my mouth was, one more in the long line of doctors\nand not even an orthopeodic specialist, diagnosed my problems with no\ndifficulty, set me on the path to an effective cure, and I was walking\nand running again without the pain that had stopped me from that for\n4 years. The diagnosis was something he felt the other doctors must have\n"overlooked" because it was perfectly obvious from my test results.\n\tMaybe this doesn\'t hit you as miraculous. But to me it really\nis. Imagine an active 17 year old being told she may not be able to\nwalk mcuh longer...and is now a happy 18 year old who can dance and run\nknowing that the problem was there all along and was "revealed" just\nafter she did what she knew was right. As the song says...\n\t"Our God is an awesome God...."\n',
'From: PETCH@gvg47.gvg.tek.com (Chuck)\nSubject: Daily Verse\nLines: 4\n\n\n For he himself is our peace, who has made the two one and has destroyed the\nbarrier, the dividing wall of hostility, \nEphesians 2:14\n',
"From: gord@jericho.uucp (Gord Wait S-MOS Systems Vancouver Design Center)\nSubject: Re: Rumours about 3DO ???\nOrganization: S-MOS Systems, Inc. (Vancouver Design Center)\nLines: 14\n\nIn article <1993Apr15.164940.11632@mercury.unt.edu> Sean McMains <mcmains@unt.edu> writes:\n>Wow! A 68070! I'd be very interested to get my hands on one of these,\n>especially considering the fact that Motorola has not yet released the\n>68060, which is supposedly the next in the 680x0 lineup. 8-D\n\nThe 68070 is made by someone other than Motorola (Signetics perhaps),\nand was (if memory serves me correctly) a 68000 compatible single chip\nmicro type chip. IE built in extra toys like serial ports, ram\ninterfaces etc. So, laugh all you want, but there is such a critter!\n-- \nGord Wait \tSMOS Systems Vancouver Design Centre\nuunet!jericho!gord\ngord%jericho@uunet.uu.net\nor even some days\n",
'From: mdw33310@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Michael D. Walker)\nSubject: Re: New thought on Deuterocanonicals\nOrganization: University of Illinois at Urbana\nLines: 29\n\n>\t2. It is more likely than not that when St. John (or whomever) wrote\n>\t\tthe book of Revelation WHAT WAS THEN CONSIDERED SCRIPTURE was\n>\t\t** NOT ** the same thing you and I are holding in our hands!\n\n>\t\tRevelation was almost certainly written durin the reign of \n>\tDomition (sp?), A.D. 80-96. Thus it could be argues that we are all\n>\tin sin if we accept 2 Peter as scripture, since it was "added" to the\n>\tbook after the composition of Revelation, when we are told to add \n>\tnothing more.\n\n\tOkay, I went back and looked: sure enough, my hunch was right.\n\t\n\t\t2 Peter was most likely written between 100-120 A.D.\n\t\t\n\t\tRevelation was almost certainly written between 80-96 A.D.\n\t\t\n\t\tOdds are the gospel of John was written around 90 A.D.\n\t\t\n\t\tBest dates for Luke and Acts are around 80 A.D., maybe later.\n\t\t\n\tAgain, this is from footnoted information in the New American Bible,\n\tthe best translation I\'ve come across in regards to giving complete\n\thistorical information about each book.\n\t\t\t\t\t\t- Mike\n\t\t\t\t\t\t)\n\n[Of course the folks who you\'re arguing with almost certainly do\nnot accept 2 Peter as being pseudonymous. In that case they\'d\nhave to date it far earlier than this. --clh]\n',
'From: mussack@austin.ibm.com (Christopher Mussack)\nSubject: Re: Atheists and Hell\nLines: 74\n\nIn article <May.2.09.50.29.1993.11787@geneva.rutgers.edu>, trajan@cwis.unomaha.edu (Stephen McIntyre) writes:\n> > In article <Apr.20.03.01.40.1993.3769@geneva.rutgers.edu> trajan@cwis.\n> > unomaha.edu (Stephen McIntyre) writes:\n> \n> > > ... Besides, I would\n> > > rather spend an eternity in Hell than be beside God in Heaven\n> > > knowing even one man would spend his "eternal life" being\n> > > scorched for his wrongdoings...\n> This "display of bravado" is no bluff. I\'ve no fear any God or\n> His punishment. ...\n\nThat was my point. If I play poker with Monopoly money I can bet \nanything I want.\n\n> > ...\n> But I shan\'t go to heaven-- it would be against my sense of\n> humanity and compassion for my fellow man.\n\nThis is exactly why Christianity is missionary in nature,\nnot just out of a need to irritate. 8-)\n \n> > ...\n> The God of both Testaments are one and the same, and in\n> neither is there evidence God is strictly love. \n\nTo the people who wrote the Bible and to whom the Bible is written,\nthere is evidence of love, but that is a cultural bias. This is\na poor answer which you needn\'t rebut.\n\nI will now pull the old bait and switch.\n\nI think you should use the Bible to judge man, not God.\nBy that I mean, if your moral intuition doesn\'t like what\nis described in the Bible, realize that such things are going on\nnow. I will avoid the semantic arguments about the cause of evil\nand ask what are you doing to fight it? Not you specifically,\nbut everyone, including myself. If I don\'t like the genocide\nin the Bible, what about the genocide that goes on right now?\nTo move beyond the question of a hell, realize that many people\nright now are suffering. If you think hell isn\'t fair and are\nwilling to sacrifice everything just to deny its existence,\nwhat about how life isn\'t fair? Right now there is a young mother\nwith three little kids who doesn\'t know how she will get through\nthe day. Right now there is a sixth grader who is a junkie.\nRight now there is an old man with no friends and no money to\nfix his TV. Instead of why doesn\'t God help them ask why don\'t\nwe help them. I think you are correct to challenge any Christian\nwho doesn\'t live his life with the compassion you seem to possess.\n\nYou want evidence of God. Find someone who is making a difference,\nsomeone you admire, someone who has been through some tough times\nand has come out with his head up. Ask the person how he does it. Ask \nthe Vietnam vet who was battle medic how he kept his mind. Ask the \nwoman who was pregnant at 15, kept the baby and now is a successful\nbusiness woman. Ask the doctor who has operated on a 1-1/2 pound\nbaby. They won\'t all be Christians, or even what you might\ncall religious, but there will be something in common.\n\nGod is not defined in the Bible, God is defined by what is\nin those people\'s hearts. It doesn\'t matter if you can\'t give\nintellectual assent to any description you\'ve heard, they\'re\nall wrong anyway. The compassion you already feel in your heart \nis a step in the right direction. Follow that instead.\nThen come back and read the Bible and you\'ll see that same\nthing described there.\n\n> > If nothing else makes sense, hang on to that idea, that God is love.\n> \n> I would say something similar, but in reverse order: love\n> is god.\n\nGood, I guess we only have to work on your grammar. 8-)\n\nChris Mussack\n',
'From: aaron@minster.york.ac.uk\nSubject: Re: Death Penalty / Gulf War (long)\nDistribution: world\nOrganization: Department of Computer Science, University of York, England\nLines: 22\n\nShamim Zvonko Mohamed (sham@cs.arizona.edu) wrote:\n: BULLSHIT!!! In the Gulf Massacre, 7% of all ordnance used was "smart." The\n: rest - that\'s 93% - was just regular, dumb ol\' iron bombs and stuff. Have\n: you forgotten that the Pentagon definition of a successful Patriot launch\n: was when the missile cleared the launching tube with no damage? Or that a\n: successful interception of a Scud was defined as "the Patriot and Scud\n: passed each other in the same area of the sky"?\n: \n: And of the 7% that was the "smart" stuff, 35% hit. Again - try to follow me\n: here - that means 65% of this "smart" arsenal missed.\n\nI used to have full figures on this including the tons of bombs dropped\nand the number of cluster bomblet munitions used. I had heard the 90% of\nthe laser-guided weapons hit, which is an unprecedented rate of success.\n25% of the iron weapons hit, again unprecedented. The following is a rough\nestimate, but this means of the 80,000 tons of bombs dropped by US aircraft\naround 56,000 tons *missed*. I\'m not sure what proportion of this was\ndropped of Baghdad rather than troop concentrations in Iraq and Kuwait.\nMuch of the tonnage dropped was cluster munitions, as were all the MRLS\nrounds and many of the artillery rounds. Napalm and fuel air explosives\nwere also used (Remember how we were told that weapons of mass destruction\nsuch as FAE were very naughty indeed?)\n',
"From: rkummer@phillip.edu.au\nSubject: POV-Ray for VAX computer?????????\nReply-To: rkummer@phillip.edu.au\nOrganization: RMIT, Bundoora Campus, Victoria, Australia\nLines: 13\n\nHi there,\n I'm using POv-Ray on my IBM compatible at home, but I would like to \nrun some things at work on our VAX computer. I believe there is a version \nof the source code for POV-ray that is VAX specific, but I'm not sure where \nto find it (I've looked at the several sites where the IBMPC version of it \ncan be found). Can anyone help me?\n\nThanks in advance,\n\nRoss Kummer\nRMIT,Melbourne, Australia\nInternet address, RKUMMER@PHILLIP.EDU.AU\n(no clever signoff yet, too busy playing with POV-ray)\n",
'From: frank@D012S658.uucp (Frank O\'Dwyer)\nSubject: Re: After 2000 years, can we say that Christian Morality is\nOrganization: Siemens-Nixdorf AG\nLines: 111\nNNTP-Posting-Host: d012s658.ap.mchp.sni.de\n\nIn article <1993Apr20.115045.20756@abo.fi> MANDTBACKA@FINABO.ABO.FI (Mats Andtbacka) writes:\n#In <1r0fpv$p11@horus.ap.mchp.sni.de> frank@D012S658.uucp writes:\n#>In article <1993Apr20.070156.26910@abo.fi> MANDTBACKA@FINABO.ABO.FI\n#>(Mats Andtbacka) writes:\n#\n#># Ah, that old chestnut, your claim that moral objectivism ==\n#>#scientific objectivism. I don\'t agree with it; now try proving, through\n#>#some objective moral test, that my disagreeing is incorrect. =)\n#> \n#> Your claim, which you have deleted now was "not universal => not objective".\n#\n# I\'ve deleted it now, in the interest of brevity. Go back a step\n#and you\'ll see it was still in your post. Yes, that was my claim; if you\n#can refute it, then please do so.\n\nFirstly, an apology. You hadn\'t deleted your claim, and I was mistaken in\nsaying you had. Sorry for any offence caused.\n\nSecondly, how can I refute your definition? I can only point up its\nlogical implications, and say that they seem to contradict the usage\nof the word "objective" in other areas. Indeed, by your definition, an\nobjective x is an oxymoron, for all x. I have no quibble with that\nbelief, other than that it is useless, and that "objective" is a perfectly\ngood word.\n\n#> So, what *is* objective? Not the age of the universe, anyway, as I show\n#> above.\n#\n# How many ages can the universe have, and still be internally self-\n#consistent? I\'d be amazed if it was more than one. How many different\n#moral systems can different members of society have - indeed, single\n#individuals, in some cases - and humanity still stick together?\n\nBegging the question. People can have many opinions about the age\nof the universe and humanity can still stick together. You are\nsaying that the universe has a _real_ age, independent of my beliefs about\nit. Why?\n\n# The age of the universe, like most scientific facts, can be\n#emirically verified through means that\'ll give the same result no matter\n#who performs the testing (albeit there are error bars that may be on the\n#largish side...). \n\nThis assumes that the universe has a real age, or any kind of reality\nwhich doesn\'t depend on what we think. Why should an extreme Biblical\nCreationist give a rat\'s ass about the means of which you speak?\n\n#I\'ve heard of no way to verify morality in a\n#consistent way, much less compute the errors of the measurement; care to\n#enlighten me?\n\nThe same is true of pain, but painkillers exist, and can be predicted\nto work with some accuracy better than a random guess. I wrote\nelsewhere that morality should be hypotheses about observed value.\nIf a moral system makes a prediction "It will be better if...",\nthat can be tested, and is falsifiable in the same way as a prediction\n"This drug will relieve pain..."\n\n# People\'s *ideas* about the age of object X are *not* objective;\n#you can have any idea you like, and I can\'t stop you. Universae and\n#their ages is another ballgame; they are what they are, and if you\n#dislike some detail of them, that\'s a problem with your *opinion* of\n#them. \n\nSure. Assume an objective reality, and you get statements like this.\n\n#I claim that morality is an opinion of ours, and as such\n#subjective and individual. If I\'m wrong, then some more-or-less\n#objectively "real" thing exists, which you label "objective morality";\n#can you back up this positive claim of existence?\n\nCan you back up your positive claim above? No. That\'s because it\'s an\nassumption. I make the same assumption about values, on the basis\nthat there is no logical difference between the two, and the empirical\nbasis of the two is precisely the same.\n\n#># Point: Morals are, in essence, personal opinions. Usually\n#>#(ideally) well-founded, motivated such, but nonetheless personal. The\n#>#fact that a real large lot of people agree on some moral question,\n#>#sometimes even for the same reason, does not make morals objective; it\n#>#makes humans somewhat alike in their opinions on that moral question,\n#>#which can be good for the evolution of a social species.\n#> \n#> And if a "real large lot" (nice phrase) of people agree that there is a \n#> football on a desk, I\'m supposed to see a logical difference between the two? \n#> Perhaps you can explain the difference to me, since you seem to see it\n#> so clearly.\n#\n# Take a look on the desk - i.e., perform a test. If(football) THEN\n#(accept theory) ELSE DO (Tell people they\'re hallucinating).\n#\n# Now take a look at morality. See anything? If so, please inform me\n#which way to look, and WHY to look that particular way, as opposed to\n#some other. Get my drift?\n\nNo. Just look. Are you claiming never to know what good means?\n\n#># *Science* is a whole other matter altogether.\n#> \n#> Says you. Prove that those who disagree are wrong?\n#\n# That\'s a simple(?) matter of proving the track record of the\n#scientific method.\n\nI think it\'s great, and should be applied to values. I may be completely\nwrong, but that\'s what I conclude as a result of quite an amount of\nthought.\n\n-- \nFrank O\'Dwyer \'I\'m not hatching That\'\nodwyer@sse.ie from "Hens", by Evelyn Conlon\n',
'From: acooper@mac.cc.macalstr.edu (Turin Turambar, ME Department of Utter Misery)\nSubject: Re: Societal basis for morality\nOrganization: Macalester College\nLines: 89\n\nIn article <C5sAD7.1DM@news.cso.uiuc.edu>, cobb@alexia.lis.uiuc.edu (Mike Cobb) writes:\n> In <1993Apr20.004119.6119@cnsvax.uwec.edu> nyeda@cnsvax.uwec.edu (David Nye) \n> writes:\n> \n>>[reply to cobb@alexia.lis.uiuc.edu (Mike Cobb)]\n>> \n>>>If morals come from what is societally accepted, why follow that? What\n>>>right do we have to expect others to follow our notion of societally\n>>>mandated morality? Pardon the extremism, but couldn\'t I murder your\n>>>"brother" and say that I was exercising my rights as I saw them, was\n>>>doing what felt good, didn\'t want anyone forcing their morality on me,\n>>>or I don\'t follow your "morality" ?\n>> \n>>I believe that morality is subjective. Each person is entitled to his\n>>own moral attitudes. Mine are not a priori more correct than someone\n>>elses. This does not mean however that I must judge another on the\n>>basis of his rather than my moral standards. While he is entitled to\n>>believe what his own moral sense tells him, the rest of society is\n>>entitled to pass laws spelling out punishments for behavior that is\n>>offensive to the majority.\n> \n> Why? How? Might makes right? How can they force their morality on me? Why \n> can\'t I do what I want? Who are they to decide? What if I disagree? \n\n\nWell I agree with you in the sense that they have no "moral" right to inflict\nthese rules, but there is one thing I might add: at the very least, almost\neverybody wants to avoid pain, and if that means sacrificing some stuff for a\nherd morality, then so be it. \n\n>> \n>>Most criminals do not see their behavior as moral. The may realize that\n>>it is immoral and not care. They are thus not following their own moral\n>>system but being immoral.\n> \n> Good point, but it is being immoral in our opinion. We don\'t let them choose,\n> we make the decision that their actions are wrong for them.\n\nRight, and since they grew up and learned around us, they have some idea of our\nright and wrong, which I think must, in part, be incorporated. Very rarely do\nyou see criminal behaviour for "philosophical reasons"\n\n\n> \n> For someone to lay claim to an alternative\n>>moral system, he must be sincere in his belief in it and it must be\n>>internally consistent. Some sociopaths lack an innate moral sense\n> \n> I admit to lean toward the idea of an innate moral sense, but have little basis\n> for it as of yet. How far can such a concept be extended?\n> \n\n(stuff deleted)\n\n> Do you mean that we could say it would be wrong for us to do such a thing but \n> not him. After all, he was behaving morally in his own eyes and doing what he\n> chose. On what basis do we condemn other societies besides, here\'s the buzz \n> words, on the idea that there are some actions wrong for all humans in all \n> societies?\n> \n>> Holding that morality is subjective does not mean\n>>that we must excuse the murderer.\n> \n> Why not? Do we have to be objective suddenly?\n>> \n>>David Nye (nyeda@cnsvax.uwec.edu). Midelfort Clinic, Eau Claire WI\n>>This is patently absurd; but whoever wishes to become a philosopher\n>>must learn not to be frightened by absurdities. -- Bertrand Russell\n> \n> MAC\n> --\n> ****************************************************************\n> Michael A. Cobb\n> "...and I won\'t raise taxes on the middle University of Illinois\n> class to pay for my programs." Champaign-Urbana\n> -Bill Clinton 3rd Debate cobb@alexia.lis.uiuc.edu\n> \n> Nobody can explain everything to anybody. G.K.Chesterton\n-- \n\nbest regards,\n\n--Adam\n\n********************************************************************************\n* Adam John Cooper\t\t"Verily, often have I laughed at the weaklings *\n* (612) 696-7521\t\t who thought themselves good simply because *\n* acooper@macalstr.edu\t\t\t\tthey had no claws."\t *\n********************************************************************************\n',
"From: backon@vms.huji.ac.il\nSubject: Re: Sinus Surgery / Septoplasty\nDistribution: world\nOrganization: The Hebrew University of Jerusalem\nLines: 39\n\nIn article <C670zy.DA@utdallas.edu>, kmldorf@utdallas.edu (George Kimeldorf) writes:\n> In article <badboyC64t0z.FGq@netcom.com> badboy@netcom.com (Jay Keller) writes:\n>>\n>>(I've already heard from a couple who said they had it and it didn't\n>>really help them).\n>>\n>>I am a moderately severe asthmatic. ENT doc says large percentage see some\n>>relief of their asthma after sinus surgery. Also he said it is not unheard of\n>>that migraines go away after chronis sinusitis is relieved.\n>>\n>>\n>>\n> Did your ENT also tell you that this procedure may remove warts from the soles\n> of your feet and improve your sex life?\n>\n\n\nYou probably were trying to be facetious but just for the record partial nasal\nobstruction is correlated with a number of chronic disorders such as migraine,\nhyperthyroidism, asthma, peptic ulcer, dysmenorrhea, and lack of libido (:-) )\n[Riga IN. Rev d'Oto-Neuro-Ophthalmol 1957;24:325-335], cardiac symptoms\n[Jackson RT. Annals of Otology 1976;85:65-70 Cvetnic MH, Cvetnic V. Rhinology\n1980;18:47-50 Cottle MH. Rhinology 1980;18:67-81], and fever, inadequate\noral intake and electrolyte imbalance [Fairbanks DNF. Otorhinolaryngology Head\nand Neck Surgery 1986;94:412-415).\n\nSo before you post your inane comments it would be nice if you'd run a MEDLINE\nsearch on the topic say back to 1966. There's been extensive literature on this\nfor over a 100 years.\n\nI may be in cardiology but I've had a very good working relationship with\nmy colleagues from ENT.\n\nJosh\nbackon@VMS.HUJI.AC.IL\n\n\n\n\n\n",
'From: mayne@pipe.cs.fsu.edu (Bill Mayne)\nSubject: Re: Why do people become atheists?\nReply-To: mayne@nu.cs.fsu.edu\nOrganization: Florida State University Computer Science Department\nLines: 68\n\nIn article <May.9.05.40.51.1993.27526@athos.rutgers.edu> noye@midway.uchicago.edu writes:\n>\n>christians can also feel that\n>sense of "difference", however, when they are associated with "those\n>weird televangelists who always talk about satan". if you\'ll excuse\n>the cliched sound of this, everyone has to deal with his/ her\n>differences from other people. i can understand how being an atheist\n>could be hard for you; being a christian is sometimes hard for me.\n\nThis is not at all comparable. Christianity is the main stream in\nwestern culture. You are trivializing the experiences of others.\n\nI remember what it was like being "different" as a Christian. We\nwere told all the time that we were different, and in fact that\nonly members of the our church were really Christians (though others\nwho believed in God weren\'t as bad as atheists), so we were a small\nminority. That was nothing compared to being an atheist.\n\nThe only thing comparable would be a young child being Christian\nbeing surrounded by staunch atheists, including parents, who\nactively persecute any religious tendancies - both actual punishments\nand, even worse, emotional blackmail. They would also have\nto have the whole mainstream society on their side. Maybe these\nconditions could have occured in the old Soviet Union* not in a\ncountry with "under God" in its pledge of allegiance.\n\n* I doubt it even then, because children have to be taught to be\nChristians and hence must have support somewhere.\n\n>>I have sympathy for gays growing up in repressive environments and\n>>having to hide and sometimes at first try to deny a part of themselves\n>>because I\'ve been there. Only in my case it was my rationality instead\n>>of sexuality which I was forced to try to repress.\n>\n>in some way the pressures were different, of course, because you\n>"chose" your beliefs -- or are you saying that they were not your\n>choice, but born of necessity? [please, no flames about whether or\n>not gay people "choose" their lifestyle -- that\'s elsewhere in this\n>newsgroup]\n\nYes. My atheism was "born of necessity." For an intellectually honest\nperson belief is mostly a response to evidence. Will or wishes have\nnothing to do with it. I could choose to lie, or to be silent about\nmy true beliefs. I could no more choose to believe in the God of\nChristianity than I could decide that the ordinary sky looks red to\nme. Still I should be clear that I\'m not equating what I went through\nwith what gays go through. However it is a mistake to assume that\neveryone who goes through painful experiences are broken by them.\nHappily some are made stronger, once we get past it.\n\n>> I must say that I\n>>wasn\'t hurt by my experiences in church any more than some of my friends\n>>who didn\'t become atheists. I was just hurt differently.\n>\n>i\'m not sure i understand this sentence -- could you explain?\n\nNot without going to details and violating the confidences of some of my\nchildhood friends. Suffice it say to that religion does not guarantee\nthat a person will be happy and strong emotionally, and a repressive\nupbringing can leave its scars even, or especially, on those who don\'t\nget free of it. I doubt that any sane and sincere person doubts that and\nI feel no need to defend it.\n\nBy the way I am much happier and stronger being out of the closet. In\nthe end it has been, as someone eloquently put it in private email, an\nexperience of liberation rather than disillusion.\n\nBill Mayne\n',
'From: gotsman@csa.technion.ac.il (Craig Gotsman)\nSubject: Computer Graphics studies at the Technion\nReply-To: gotsman@csa.technion.ac.il (Craig Gotsman)\nOrganization: Technion, Israel Inst. of Technology\nLines: 23\n\n Technion - Israel Institute of Technology\n Department of Computer Science\n\n GRADUATE STUDIES IN COMPUTER GRAPHICS\n\nApplications are invited for graduate students wishing\nto specialize in computer graphics and related fields.\nActive research is being conducted in the fields of\nimage rendering, geometric modelling and computer animation.\nState of the art graphics workstations (Sun, Silicon Graphics)\nand video equipment are available.\nThe Technion offers full scholarship support (tuition and \nassistantships) for suitable candidates.\n\nFor more information contact\n\nDr. Craig Gotsman\nComputer Science Deptartment \nTechnion - Israel Institute of Technology\nHaifa 32000, Israel\ngotsman@cs.technion.ac.il\n\n\n',
"From: Nigel@dataman.demon.co.uk (Nigel Ballard)\nSubject: Re: Mind Machines? \nDistribution: world\nOrganization: Infamy Inc.\nReply-To: Nigel@dataman.demon.co.uk\nX-Newsreader: Simple NEWS 1.90 (ka9q DIS 1.21)\nLines: 29\n\n\nI use a ZYGON Mind Machine as bought in the USA last year. Although\nit's no wonder cure for what ail's you. It is however VERY good at\nstopping you thinking!\n\nSound strange? Well suppose you're tired and want to go to bed/sleep.\nBUT your head is full of niggling problems to resolve, you lay in the\nbed, and quickly they all come to the surface, churning around from one\nunresolved thing to the next and then back again. Been there, bought\nthe t-shirt?\n\nI slip on the Zygon and select a soothing pattern of light & sound, and\nquickly I just can't concentrate on the previous stuff. Your brain's\ncache kinda get's flushed, and you start on a whole new set of stuff.\n\nA useful addition, is the facility to feed the output of a tape player\nor CD through the box, I use New Age elevator muzak to enhance the\noverall effect.\n\nDEFFO better than a pill.\n\nCheers Nigel\n\n ************************************************************************\n * NIGEL BALLARD | INT: nigel@dataman.demon.co.uk | I'M PINK *\n * BOURNEMOUTH UK | CIS: 100015.2644 RADIO-G1HOI | THEREFORE I'M SPAM *\n ************************************************************************\n\n\n",
'From: mne@ing.puc.cl (Marcelo Neira Eid)\nSubject: raw2gif ?\nNntp-Posting-Host: malloco.ing.puc.cl\nOrganization: Pontificia Universidad Catolica de Chile\nX-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]\nLines: 14\n\n\tHello:\n\tcan anybody help me to find a program that converts a format named\n\t"raw" (also known as "img") to the "gif" format or "jpeg" one.\n\tIt\'s desirable to be for a unix machine than for a PC.\n\n\t(\n\t"Raw" format of a N*N image is a file that contain a tail of \n\tN*N characters, each one referencing to the k*N+j pixel of the \n\tmonocrome image, where k and j lies between 0 and N-1.\n\t).\n\t\t\n\t\n\tThanxs\t\t\tmne@ing.puc.cL\n\n',
"From: jk87377@lehtori.cc.tut.fi (Kouhia Juhana)\nSubject: Re: XV problems\nOrganization: Tampere University of Technology\nLines: 47\nDistribution: world\nNNTP-Posting-Host: cc.tut.fi\n\nIn article <1993Apr27.143603.9351@nessie.mcc.ac.uk>\nC.C.Lilley@mcc.ac.uk writes:\n>\n>2) Yes XV is an 8 bit program. This is not a bug.\n\nNever claimed it is a bug.\n\n\n>XV can import 24 bit images and quantises them down to 8 bits. This is a handy\n>facility, not a bug.\n\nNever claimed it is a bug.\n\n\n>How would you suggest doing colour editing on a 24 bit file? How\n>would you group 'related' colours to edit them together? Only global\n>changes could be done unless the software were very different and\n>much more complicated.\n>If you want to do colour editing on a 24 bit image, you need much\n>more powerfull software - which is readily available commercially.\n\nI guess I edited my note on this away from the article I posted to\nmany newsgroups.\n\nI wrote something about making color modifications quickly\nwith 8bit quantized images and only at the saving the image to file\nprocess we have to make the modifications to the 24bit image.\nThis makes sense, because the main use of XV is only viewing images.\n\nDoing many changes to image, we should keep all modifications\nin a buffer; and then before making the operations to 24bit image,\nwe should simplify the operation list for unnecessary operations.\n\n\n>And lastly, JPEG is a compression algorithm. It can be applied to any\n>image of arbitrary bit depth. Again, this is not a bug.\n\nNever claimed it is a bug.\nI tried kept sure I don't claim that JPEG is noting else than\na compression algorithm, because I know what the JPEG is.\n(You propably misunderstood what I wrote as you have done in many\nplaces so far.)\n\nYou also missed what is (were) wrong with XV. However, I did wrote it.\n\n\nJuhana Kouhia\n",
'From: easteee@wkuvx1.bitnet\nSubject: Who Prays/Speaks in Tongues?\nOrganization: Western Kentucky University, Bowling Green, KY\nLines: 8\n\nFor those who pray in tongues,\n\n When is it appropriate for you to pray/speak in tongues\nand why? I just would like to gain more knowledge about this subject.\n\n______ __ ___ ___ o __ ___ | Western Kentucky |\n / /__) /__ /__ / ) / /__) /__ | University |\n / / \\ (___ (___ (__/__/ / / \\ (___ | EASTEEE@WKUVX1.BITNET |\n',
"From: fzjaffe@hamlet.ucdavis.edu (Rory Jaffe)\nSubject: Re: HELP for Kidney Stones ..............\nOrganization: University of California, Davis\nX-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL3\nLines: 14\n\netxmow@garbo.ericsson.se (Mats Winberg) writes:\n: \n: Isn't there a relatively new treatment for kidney stones involving\n: a non-invasive use of ultra-sound where the patient is lowered\n: into some sort of liquid when he/she undergoes treatment? I'm sure\n: I've read about it somewhere. If I remember it correctly it is a\n: painless and effective treatment.\nThe use of shock waves (not ultrasound) to break up stones has been\naround for a few years. Depending on the type of machine, and intensity\nof the shock waves, it is usually uncomfortable enough to require\nsomething... The high-power machines cause enough pain to require\ngeneral or regional anesthesia. Afterwards, it feels like someone\nslugged you pretty good!\n\n",
"From: aron@taos.ced.berkeley.edu (Aron Bonar)\nSubject: Re: GIF to Targa\nOrganization: University of California, Berkeley\nLines: 9\nNNTP-Posting-Host: taos.ced.berkeley.edu\n\nIn article <1993Apr28.143057.8335@fuw.edu.pl>, muchor@fuw.edu.pl (Krzysztof Muchorowski) writes:\n|> Hello,\n|> Subject says it all. I need a GIF to Targa converter, so that my\n|> dta15 could make a .FLI of them.\n|> Krzysztof\n|> \n\nDTA will make a .FLI from GIFs as well as Targas. You don't need a converter.\nAlso..get the latest version of DTA from wuarchive.wustl.edu in pub/msdos_uploads.\n",
"From: jk87377@lehtori.cc.tut.fi (Kouhia Juhana)\nSubject: Re: Oh make up your mind!! (was: Re: XV problems)\nOrganization: Tampere University of Technology\nLines: 40\nDistribution: world\nNNTP-Posting-Host: cc.tut.fi\n\nIn article <1993Apr30.182605.5999@nessie.mcc.ac.uk>\nC.C.Lilley@mcc.ac.uk writes:\n>\n>>XV allows this feature, but I don't recommend to use it with the\n>>mentioned type images.\n>\n>Ah! now we see thew problem! First you want to extend xv to allow\n>editing of 8 bit previews of 24 bit images. Then I point out problems\n>with this. Now you are saying there is no problem because you,\n>personally, happen not to use those parts of the program that cause\n>the problem!!\n[ ..see previous article on this debate for the rests.. ]\n\nI can see XV-3.00 agree with my view in cases you don't -- even I say\nmy personal opinion (as above), it doesn't mean that it is not most\nobvious thing.\nPlease, if you use my previous writings as contradicting argument,\nplease do read them -- you have not saw them at all; you just\nrefered to text from which I wrote 'something' -- and you make\nhard decisions from that, without reading what exactly I have written.\n\nIt is really hard read when one writes a reply line by line method\nand don't understand include previously written material with the new\nsentences to give them meaning. You seem to be one such.\n\nYou also start replying to my articles, even you don't understand what\nis going on; you ask me repeatedly to decsribe my views what were\nwrong with XV 2.21 even I posted them within the article you did reply\nto. Believe me, it is not nice to get flamed specially when I know\nthat you have not read my article carefully in the first place.\n\nXV-3.00 and JPEG FAQ and users I have written to agree me with the\nplaces you didn't; I'm sure you just didn't undertand what about I\nwrote. We can blame my writing skills (in English?) for that, or?\n\nBetter stop the discussion and check what new ideas XV-3.00 gives;\nI allready mailed one to Bradley...\n\n\nJuhana Kouhia\n",
'From: KEVXU@cunyvm.bitnet\nSubject: Re: Christianity and repeated lives\nOrganization: City University of New York\nLines: 36\n\nWhile this is essentially a discussion of reincarnation in the context of\nChristianity Gerry Palo has made some comparisons to Asian religious\nbeliefs on this topic which have simplified the Asian idea of karma\nto the point of misrepresentation.\n\nThere are significant differences in the idea of karma among Hindus,\nJains, Buddhists (and even among the various Buddhist traditions.)\n\nTo refer to karma as a system of reward for past deeds is totally\nincorrect in the Buddhist and Jain traditions. Karma is considered to\nbe a moral process in which intentions (either good or evil) shape\na person\'s predilections for future intention and action and\nproduce a person who is more prone to good than evil, or the opposite --\n"reward" has nothing to do with it. Both Jainism and Buddhism are atheistic\nso there is no deity to dispense rewards or punishments. Karma is usually\ndescribed in terms of seeds and reaping the fruit thereof. In fact "As you\nsow, so shall you reap" is found in the Pali Canon as I recall, the metaphor\nof natural growth is explicit.\n\nHinduism, or some sects in that tradition, are I believe much more\ndeterministic and involve concepts closer to reward and punishment being\ntheistically inclined.\n\nIn point of fact, the Theravadin Buddhist tradition of Southeast Asia\nconsiders karma as only one of five influences in human life, and in\nfact from their point of view they would be unable to explain the mechanics\nof karma without the element of free will.\n\nAlso in Eastern religions there is a difference between reincarnation and\nrebirth, which is essentially absent in Western considerations.\n\nIsn\'t Origen usually cited as the most prestigious proponent of reincarnation\namong Christian thinkers? What were his views, and how did he relate them\nto the Christian scriptures?\n\nJack Carroll\n',
'From: marlatt@spot.Colorado.EDU (Stuart W. Marlatt)\nSubject: Re: SOC.RELIGION.CHRISTIAN\nOrganization: University of Colorado, Boulder\nLines: 61\n\nIn article <May.16.01.56.04.1993.6668@geneva.rutgers.edu> revdak@netcom.com (D. Andrew Kille) writes:\n>Anni Dozier (dozier@utkux1.utk.edu) wrote:\n>: After reading the posts on this newsgroup for the pasts 4 months, it \n>: has become apparent to me that this group is primarily active with \n>: Liberals, Catholics, New Agers\', and Athiests. Someone might think \n[...etc...]\n\n>Since when did conservative, protestant, old-time religion believers get\n>an exclusive francise to christianity? Christianity is, and always has\n>been, a diverse and contentious tradition, and this group reflects that\n>diversity. I, fo one, am not ready to concede to _any_ group- be they\n>"liberal" or "conservative", catholic, protestant, or orthodox, charismatic\n>or not- the right to claim that they have _the truth_, and everyone else\n>is not "christian."\n\nI am becoming increasingly convinced that most of us take Paul\'s illustration\nabout one body / many parts far too narrowly. It is easy to say that the one\nbody represents a particular sect of Christianity (generally our own), and\nthe parts are clearly the various offices of ministry. There is a place for\nthat. But having met people who are walking closeely with God in a wide\nvariety of doctine - Catholic, Protestant, liberal, conservative, Orthodox,\netc. - I am willing to encompass a wide spectrum of views within the\ncontext of the \'body of Christ.\' And I am equally sure that one day, after\nwe shug off this mortal coil, when we no longer see through a glass darkly\nbut see clearly, face to face, we will all be ashamed at some of the things\nwe held as truth. We ought all fellowship, worship, and serve where we are\ncalled, and understand that where we are called may not be where everyone\nelse is called.\n\nOne of the fathers of the reformation (help me out - can\'t recall the name)\nput it quite succiently:\n\n\tIn essentials, unity.\n\tIn nonessentials, liberty.\n\tIn all things, charity.\n\nWhile I agree with Lewis (Mere Christianity) that calling oneself a Christian\nimplies some basic, fundamental standards of belief if the word is to mean\nanything at all, I think most of us define the bounds of essentials a bit\ntoo broadly, deny the place for liberty in questionable issues near those\nbounds, and ignore the requirements of charity all together. \n\nMe? I attend a Vineyard church, speak in tongues, am effectively an\ninerrantist, though I\'ll grant some inaccuracy in translation, am moderately\npre-mill, and evangelical. But, I\'m not ready to damn those who use icons,\nsay mass in latin, uphold the Virgin Mary (though I really don\'t believe\nthat she was sinless), vote on Church membership, or insist on baptism for\nsalvation. Of course, I think my doctine is pretty close to the truth -\nwhy would I follow it if I believed something else was closer to the truth?\nBut my understanding of the reality of a walk with Christ is continually\nevolving as I spend more and more time walking with Him, studying His word,\nand fellowshiping with others in the (often extended) family. \n\n------------------------------------------------------------------------------\nI read, much of the night, and go south in the winter. \n --T.S. Eliot, The Waste Land \n..............................................................................\ns.w. marlatt, <>< & *(:-) Prov. 25.2\nUniversity of Colorado: marlatt@spot.Colorado.edu 492-3939\nNational Center for Atmospheric Research: marlatt@neit.cgd.ucar.edu 497-1669\n------------------------------------------------------------------------------\n',
'From: creps@lateran.ucs.indiana.edu (Stephen A. Creps)\nSubject: Re: The doctrine of Original Sin\nOrganization: Indiana University\nLines: 44\n\nIn article <May.11.02.38.56.1993.28319@athos.rutgers.edu> Eugene.Bigelow@ebay.sun.com writes:\n>As St. Augustine said, "I did not invent original sin, which the\n>Catholic faith holds from ancient time; but you, who deny it, without a\n>doubt are a follower of a new heresy." (De nuptiis, lib. 11.c.12)]\n>\n>Why is it fair to punish you, me and the rest of humanity because of\n>what Adam and Eve did? Suppose your parents committed some crime before\n>you were born and one day the cops come to your door and throw you in\n>jail for it. Would you really think that is fair? I know I wouldn\'t.\n\n You may not think that it is fair, but how many sins do you know of\nthat affect only the sinner? Is it fair for us even to be able to get\ninto Heaven? Do we have a _right_ to Heaven, even if we were to lead\nsinless lives? Anyway, your argument seems to be saying, "If _I_ were\nGod, I certainly wouldn\'t do things that way; therefore, God doesn\'t do\nthings that way."\n\n\tIsaiah 55:8-9:\n\n\t"For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my\n\tways, saith the LORD. For as the heavens are higher than the\n\tearth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts\n\tthan your thoughts."\n\n Original Sin is biblical:\n\n\tRomans 5:12-14:\n\n\t"Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death\n\tby sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have\n\tsinned: (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not\n\timputed when there is no law. Nevertheless death reigned from\n\tAdam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the\n\tsimilitude of Adam\'s transgression, who is the figure of him\n\tthat was to come."\n\n\t1 Corinthians 15:22:\n\n\t"For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made\n\talive."\n\n-\t-\t-\t-\t-\t-\t-\t-\t-\t-\nSteve Creps, Indiana University\ncreps@lateran.ucs.indiana.edu\n',
"From: jtpoupor@undergrad.math.uwaterloo.ca (Jeff Poupore)\nSubject: Re: Barbecued foods and health risk\nOrganization: University of Waterloo\nLines: 18\n\nHi,\n\nThought I'd add something to the conversation. \n\nMy girlfriend used to work in a lab studying different natural carcinogens.\nShe mentioned once about the cancerous effect of barbecued food.\nBasically, she said that if you eat barbecued foods with strawberries\n(a natural carcinogen) the slight carcinogenic properties of both\ncancel out each other.\n\n--\nJeff Poupore\njtpoupor@undergrad.math.uwaterloo.ca\n\n-- \nJeff Poupore\njtpoupor@undergrad.math.uwaterloo.ca\n\n",
'From: baer@qiclab.scn.rain.com (Ken Baer)\nSubject: Re: WANTED: Playmation Info\nSummary: phone #\nArticle-I.D.: qiclab.1993Apr27.163538.11783\nOrganization: SCN Research/Qic Laboratories of Tigard, Oregon.\nLines: 18\n\nIn article <1993Apr26.173254.12871@qiclab.scn.rain.com> baer@qiclab.scn.rain.com (Ken Baer) writes:\n>In article <1993Apr22.205418.27411@osf.org> omar@godzilla.osf.org (Mark Marino) writes:\n>>Hi Folks,\n>>\n>> Does anyone have a copy of Playmation they\'d be willing to sell me. I\'d \n>>love to try it out, but not for the retail $$$.\n>\n>Playmation is available direct from Anjon & Associates for $299. \n\nOops, forgot the phone number. It\'s 1-800-377-8287.\n\n\n\n\n-- \n \\_ -Ken Baer. Programmer/Animator, Hash Enterprises\n<[_] Usenet: baer@qiclab.UUCP / AppleLink: KENBAER / Office: (206)573-9427\n =# \\, "We\'re not hitchhiking anymore, we\'re RIDING!" - Ren Hoak. \n',
'From: romdas@uclink.berkeley.edu (Ella I Baff)\nSubject: IS THIS A SCAM?\nOrganization: University of California, Berkeley\nLines: 32\nDistribution: world\nNNTP-Posting-Host: uclink.berkeley.edu\n\n Jim Haynes wants to know the following is a scam....\n\n There\'s a chiropractor who has a stand in the middle of a shopping\n mall, offering free examinations. Part of the process involves a\n multiple-jointed sensor arm and a computer that says in a computer-\n sounding voice "digitize left PSIS" "digitize right PSIS" "digitize\n C7" "please stand with spine in neutral position". I\'m wondering\n whether this doesn\'t really measure anything and the computer voice\n is to impress the victims, or whether it is measuring something\n that chiropractors think is useful to measure.\n\nEarth to sci.med....If it looks like a duck...and quacks like a duck......\n\nThis is a TOTAL scam. Since the beginning of chiropraxis, the chiropractor has \ntried to sell The Subluxation as The Problem and then sell themselves and\ntheir Adjustments as The Solution. The Chiropractic Subluxation is a delusional \ndiagnosis and the Adjustments of Subluxations by extension constitute a \ndelusional medicine.\n\nThe wide spectrum of chiropractic Techniques ALL have their own methods for \ndetecting Spinal Demons and unique methodolgies for Excorcizing Them. The \ncomputer approach is an attempt to \'sell with science\' but this device is \nnothing more than a \'high-tech\' Subluxation Detector.....and in the end...\nAMAZINGLY...it will show the potential \'patient\' to suffer from...VS......\nVertebral Subluxation....The Silent Killer!\n\nJohn Badanes, DC, CA\nromdas@uclink.berkeley.edu\n\n\n\n\n',
'From: darice@yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au (Fred Rice)\nSubject: Islam and Sufism (was Re: Move the Islam discussions...)\nOrganization: Monash University, Melb., Australia.\nLines: 18\n\n(Short reply to Kent Sandvik\'s post remarking how it is strange that\nsomehow Sufism is related to Islam, as [to him] they seem quite\ndifferent.)\n\nIf one really understands Islam, it is not strange that Sufism is\nassociated with it. In fact, Sufism is (in general) seen as the "inner\ndimension" of Islam.\n\nOne of the "roots" of the word "Islam" is "submission" -- "Islam"\ndenotes submission to God. Sufism is the most complete submission to\nGod imaginable, in "annihilating" oneself in God.\n\n(I am not a Sufi or on the Sufi path, but have read a lot and recently\nhave been discussing a number of things with others who are on the Sufi\npath.)\n\n Fred Rice\n darice@yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au \n',
'From: JEK@cu.nih.gov\nSubject: Hell\nLines: 41\n\nOn 20 April, Stephen McIntyre writes:\n\n > I would rather spend an eternity in Hell than be beside God in\n > Heaven knowing that even one man would spend his "eternal life"\n > being scorched for his wrongdoings....\n\nStephen, I suspect that when you and I use the word "Hell," we have\ndifferent concepts in mind. When you encounter references to Heaven\nin terms of crowns and harps and golden streets, I trust that you do\nnot suppose (or suspect Christians of supposing) that the golden\nstreets are to be taken literally, still less that they are what the\nconcept of Heaven is all about. Why then should you suppose that\nabout the "fires" of Hell?\n Have you read the novel ATLAS SHRUGGED? Do you remember the\nlast description of James Taggart, sitting on the floor beside the\nFerris Persuader? This comes close to a description of what is meant\nby Hell in my circles. If the image of fire is often used in this\nconnection, there are two reasons that occur to me.\n The first reason is that it conveys the idea of Hell as\nsomething that any rational being would earnestly wish to avoid (as\nany rational being would wish to avoid the fate of James Taggart --\nbut the latter image is meaningful only to those who have read ATLAS\nSHRUGGED, a smaller audience than those who have played with\nmatches).\n The second reason is the history of the Hebrew word "Gehenna,"\none of the words translated "Hell" in the New Testament. It refers\nto the valley of Hinnon, outside Jerusalem. In early days, it was a\nplace where the Canaanites offered human sacrifices (burned alive)\nto Molech. Later, it was made a garbage or refuse dump, where fires\nburned continually, consuming the trash of the city of Jerusalem.\n"To be cast into Gehenna" or "to burn in Gehenna" thus became a\nmetaphor for "to be rejected or discarded as worthless."\n\nLest you think that identifying Hell with the fate of James Taggart\nis my own private fancy, I commend to you the book THE GREAT\nDIVORCE, by C S Lewis. It discusses Heaven (no harps) and Hell (no\nflames). It is shorter than ATLAS SHRUGGED, and available at most\nbookstores and libraries.\n\n Yours,\n James Kiefer\n',
"From: I3150101@dbstu1.rz.tu-bs.de (Benedikt Rosenau)\nSubject: Re: Yet more Rushdie [Re: ISLAMIC LAW]\nOrganization: Technical University Braunschweig, Germany\nLines: 32\n\nIn article <116172@bu.edu>\njaeger@buphy.bu.edu (Gregg Jaeger) writes:\n \n>> I'm not in a position to say, since I know nothing\n>> about the situation. That does not, in my estimation, qualify me\n>> as having my head up my ass.\n>\n>\n>Bob, I never accused you of having your head up your ass! It takes\n>me quite some time in dealing with someone before accusing them of\n>having their head up their ass. I was accusing the original poster\n>(Benedikt, I believe) of being so impaired.\n>\n \n \nAfter insult, Gregg resorts to lies:\n \nIn article <115670@bu.edu>\njaeger@buphy.bu.edu (Gregg Jaeger) writes:\n \n>> Could you maybe flesh it out just a bit? Or did I miss the full\n>> grandeur of it's content by virtue of my blinding atheism?\n>\n>You may be having difficulty seeing the light because you\n>have your head up your ass. I suggest making sure this is\n>not the case before posting again.\n>\n \nThat's was the original answer. While it does not say that he has the head\nnecessarily up its ass, it would be meaningless and pointless if it was not\ninsinuated.\n Benedikt\n",
"From: kempmp@phoenix.oulu.fi (Petri Pihko)\nSubject: Re: FAQ sheet\nOrganization: University of Oulu, Finland\nX-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL9]\nLines: 25\n\nMike McAngus (mam@mouse.cmhnet.org) wrote:\n\n >By the way, news.announce.newusers has an article (can't remember which\n >one) that recommends reading a newsgroup for 1 month before posting. \n >This makes sense because you get an idea who the players are and what \n >the current discussions are about.\n\n >Am I the only one who followed that advice?\n\nNo, I spent a month just reading, too, mainly because I did not know\nmuch about the way atheists think. I even printed out the FAQs and\ndiscussed it with a friend before I started posting.\n\nAlt.atheism deals with religious issues (more appropriately, lack of\nreligious beliefs), which are by their very nature very controversial.\nIt makes sense to read what is being discussed and how just to make\nsure you are not repeating something others have said better.\n\nPetri\n\n--\n ___. .'*''.* Petri Pihko kem-pmp@ Mathematics is the Truth.\n!___.'* '.'*' ' . Pihatie 15 C finou.oulu.fi Physics is the Rule of\n ' *' .* '* SF-90650 OULU kempmp@ the Game.\n *' * .* FINLAND phoenix.oulu.fi -> Chemistry is The Game.\n",
'From: kxgst1+@pitt.edu (Kenneth Gilbert)\nSubject: Re: Persistent vs Chronic\nOrganization: University of Pittsburgh\nLines: 29\n\nIn article <10600@blue.cis.pitt.edu> doyle+@pitt.edu (Howard R Doyle) writes:\n:Chronic persistent hepatitis is usually diagnosed when someone does a liver\n:biopsy on a patient that has persistently elevated serum transaminases months\n:after a bout of acute viral hepatitis, or when someone is found to have\n:persistently elevated transaminases on routine screening tests. The degree of\n:elevation (in the serum transaminases) can be trivial, or as much as ten times\n:normal. Other blood chemistries are usually normal. \n:As a rule, patients with CPH have no clinical signs of liver disease. \n:Chronic active hepatitis can also be asymptomatic or minimally symptomatic, at\n:least initially, and that\'s why it\'s important to tell them apart by means of\n:a biopsy. The patient with CPH only needs to be reassured. The patient with\n:CAH needs to be treated.\n\nI just went back to the chapter in Cecil on chronic hepatitis. It seems\nthat indeed most cases of CPH are persistant viral hepatitis, whereas\nthere are a multitude of potential and probable causes for CAH (viral,\ndrugs, alcohol, autoimmune, etc.). Physicians seem to have a variety of\n"thresholds" for electing to biopsy someone\'s liver. Personally, I think\nthat if the patient is asymptomatic, with only slight transaminitis and\nnormal albumin and PT, one can simply follow them closely and not add the\npotential risks of a biopsy. Others may well biopsy such a patient, thus\nproviding these samples for study. It would be interesting to see if\nanyone\'s done any decision analysis on this.\n\n-- \n=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-|-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=\n= Kenneth Gilbert __|__ University of Pittsburgh =\n= General Internal Medicine | "...dammit, not a programmer!" =\n=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-|-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=\n',
"From: mayne@pipe.cs.fsu.edu (William Mayne)\nSubject: Re: Christian Morality is\nOrganization: Florida State University Computer Science Department\nReply-To: mayne@cs.fsu.edu\nLines: 21\n\nIn article <4949@eastman.UUCP> dps@nasa.kodak.com writes:\n>\n>The fact is God could cause you to believe anything He wants you to. \n>But think about it for a minute. Would you rather have someone love\n>you because you made them love you, or because they wanted to\n>love you.\n\nSame old bullshit. Not being given to delusions and wishful thinking\nI do not have the option of either loving or obeying that which I have\nso reason to believe.\n\n> The responsibility is on you to love God and take a step toward\n>Him. He promises to be there for you, but you have to look for yourself.\n>Those who doubt this or dispute it have not givin it a sincere effort.\n\nMore bullshit. I assure you in my misguided youth I made a sincere effort.\nIt was very painful being a rational person raised in Christian home.\nMany others could tell the same story. You choose not to believe anyone's\nexperience which contradicts your smug theories.\n\nBill Mayne\n",
'From: kmr4@po.CWRU.edu (Keith M. Ryan)\nSubject: Re: some thoughts.\nOrganization: Case Western Reserve University\nLines: 24\nDistribution: na\nNNTP-Posting-Host: b64635.student.cwru.edu\n\nIn article <C63AEC.FB3@cbnewsj.cb.att.com> decay@cbnewsj.cb.att.com (dean.kaflowitz) writes:\n\n>The "R Us" thing is trademarked. I don\'t know if Charles\n>Lazarus is dead or alive, but I\'d be careful, because with\n>a name like Lazarus, he might rise again just to start a\n>lawsuit.\n\n\tThe "R Us" is not trademarked, but the "Backwards R Us" is, I \nbelieve.\n\n\n\n---\n\n Speaking of proofs of God, the funniest one I have ever seen was in a\n term paper handed in by a freshman. She wrote, "God must exist, because\n he wouldn\'t be so mean as to make me believe he exists if he really\n doesn\'t!" Is this argument really so much worse than the ontological\n proofs of the existence of God provided by Anselm and Descartes, among\n others?\n\n Raymond Smullyan\n [From "5,000 B.C. and Other Philosophical Fantasies".]\n \n',
"From: cscrjn@hawk.depaul.edu (Rosalie Nerheim)\nSubject: Re: SIGGRAPH online experimental publication available\nNntp-Posting-Host: hawk.depaul.edu\nOrganization: DePaul University, Chicago\nLines: 14\n\ntry cd'ing to\n\n\tpublications/May_93_online\n\non siggraph.org\n\nIt's there!\n\nRosalee\n\n\n\n\n\n",
'From: banschbach@vms.ocom.okstate.edu\nSubject: Depression\nLines: 220\nNntp-Posting-Host: vms.ocom.okstate.edu\nOrganization: OSU College of Osteopathic Medicine\n\nSome of the MD\'s in this newsgroup have been riding my butt pretty good\n(maybe in some cases with good reason). In this post on depression, I\'m \nlaying it all out. I\'ll continue to post here because I think that I have \nsome knowledge that could be useful. Once you have read this post, you \nshould know where I\'m coming from when I post again in the future.\n\nIn article <123552@netnews.upenn.edu>, lchaplyn@mail.sas.upenn.edu (Lida Chaplynsky) writes:\n> \n> A family member of mine is suffering from a severe depression brought on\n> by menopause as well as a mental break down. She is being treated with\n> Halydol with some success but the treatments being provided through her\n> psychiatrist are not satisfactory. Someone suggested contacting a\n> nutritionist to\n> discuss alternative treatment. Since she is sensitive to medication, I\n> think this is a good suggestion but don\'t know where to begin. If anyone\n> can suggest a Philly area nutritionist, or else some literature to read,\n> I\'d appreciate it.\n \nLida,\nI can emphasize with your situation. Both my wife and I suffered from \nbouts of depression. Her\'s was brought on by breast cancer and mine was a \nrebound stress reaction to her modified radical mastectomy and \nchemotherapy. Lida, I used my knowledge of nutrition to get her through \nher six months of chemotherapy(with the approval of her oncologist). When \nsevere depression set in a few months after the chemo stopped, I tried to \nuse supplements to bring her out of it. I had "cured" her PMS using \nsupplements and I really thought that I knew enough about the role of diet \nin depression to take care of her depression as well. It didn\'t work and \nshe was put on Prozac by her oncologist. Two Winters ago(three years after \nby wife\'s breast cancer) I got hit with severe depression(pretty typical and \none reason why many marriages break up after breast cancer or another \nstressor). I tried to take care of it for several months with \nsupplementation. Didn\'t work. My internist ended up putting me on Prozac. \nI was going to give you a list of several studies that have been done using \nB6, niacin, folate and B12 to "cure" depression. I\'m not going to do that \nbecause all you would be doing is flying blind like I was.\n\nLida, I do believe that depression can have a dietary component. But the \nproblem is that you need to know exactly what the problem is and then use \nan approach which will "fix" the problem. For chemotherapy, I knew exactly \nwhat drugs were going to be used and exactly what nutrients would be \naffected. Same thing for PMS. I was flying blind for both of these \nstressors but the literature that I used to devise a treatment program was \npretty good. Depression is just too complicated. What you really need is \na nutritional scan. This is not a diet analysis but an analysis of your \nbodies nutrient reserves. For every vitamin and mineral(except vitamin C), \nyou have a reserve. The RDA is not designed to give you enough of any \nnutrient to keep these reserves full, it is only designed to keep them from \nbeing emptied which would cause clinical pathology. Stress will increase \nyour need for many vitamins and minerals. This is when your reserves become \nvery important.\n\nLida, without your permission, I\'m going to use your post as a conduit to \ntry to explain to the readers in this group and Sci. Med. where I\'m coming \nfrom. I have taught a course on human nutrition in one of the Osteopathic \nMedical schools for ten years now. I\'ve written my own textbook because \nnone was available. What I teach is not a rehash of biochemistry. I \npreach nutrient reserves(yes my lectures in this course are referred to by \nmy students as sermons). Here is what I cover:\n\nIndroduction and Carbohydrates \t\t\tLipids\n\nProteins I\t\t\t\t\tProteins II\n\nEnergy Balance\t\t\t\t\tEvaluation of Nutritional\n\t\t\t\t\t\tStatus I, A Clinical \n\t\t\t\t\t\tPerspective\n\nEvaluation of Nutritional Status II, Evaluation of Nutritional\t\t\nA Biochemical Perspective\t\t\tStatus III, Homework \n\t\t\t\t\t\tAssignment Using the \n\t\t\t\t\t\tNutritionist IV Diet and \n\t\t\t\t\t\tFitness Analysis Software \n\t\t\t\t\t\tprogram\n\nWeight Control\t\t\t\t\tFood Fads and Facts\n\nAge-Related Change in Nutrient Requirements\tFood Additives, \n\t\t\t\t\t\tContaminants and Cancer\n\nDrug-Nutrient Interactions\t\t\tMineral and Water Balance\n\nSodium, Potassium and Chloride\t\t\tCalcium, Magnesium and \n\t\t\t\t\t\tPhosphorus\n\nIron\t\t\t\t\t\tZinc and Copper\n\nIodine and Fluoride\t\t\t\tOther Trace Minerals\n\nVitamin A\t\t\t\t\tVitamin E\n\nVitamins D and K\t\t\t\tVitamin C\n\nThiamin and Niacin\t\t\t\tRiboflavin and Pyridoxine\n\nPantothenic and Folic acids\t\t\tBiotin and B12\n\nOther Nutrient Factors\t\t\t\tEnteral Nutrition\n\nParenteral Nutrition\n\nEvery three years I spend my entire Summer reviewing the Medical literature \nto find material that I can use in my nutrition textbook. I last did this \nin the Summer of 1991. I read everything that I can find and then sit down \nand rewrite my lecture handouts which are bound in three separate books \nthat have 217, 237 and 122 pages. Opposite each page of written text(which \nI write myself) I\'ve pulled figures, tables and graphs from various \ncopyrighted sources. Since this material is only being used for \neducational purposes, I can get around the copyright laws (so far). I can not \nsend this material out to newsgroup readers(as I\'ve been asked to do).\n\nI am now in the process of trying to get a grant to setup a nutrition \nassessment lab. This is the last peice of the nutrition puzzle that I need \nto make my education program complete. This lab will let me measure the \nnutrient reserve for almost all the vitamins and minerals that are known to \nbe required in humans. The Mayo clinic already uses a similiar lab to \ndesign supplement programs for their cancer patients. Cancer Treatment \nCenters of America, which is a private for-profit organization with \nhospitals in Illinois and Oklahoma(Tulsa) also operates a \nnutritional assessment clinical lab. I also believe that the Pritikin \nClinic in California has a similiar lab setup.\n\nFor physicians reading this post, I would suggest that you get the new \nClinical Nutrition Textbook that has just been published(Feb) by Mosby. I \nhave been using Alpers Manual of Nutritional Therapeutics(a Little Brown \nseries book) as a supplemental text for my course but Alpers is geared more \nto residency training. Two M.D\'s have written this new Clinical Nutrition\ntextbook and it is geared more towards medical student education and it \ndoes a good job of covering the lab tests that can be run to assess a \npatient\'s nutritional status. Let me quote a few sentences from the \nPreface of this new text:\n\n"So-called nutrition specialists were in reality gastroenterologists, \nhematologists, or pediatricians who just happened to profess some knowledge \nof nutrition as it related to their field of practice." \n\n"Unfortunately, about two thirds of the medical schools in the United \nStates require no formal instruction in nutrition."\n\n"But times and medical practice have changed. More than half of the \nleading causes of death in this country are nutrition related."\n\n"... this monograph should accomplish the following two objectives: (1) it \nshould complement your medical training by emphasizing the relevance of \nnutrition to your medical practice; and (2) it should heighten your \nawareness of nutrition as a medical speciality that is vitally important \nfor both disease prevention and the treatment of diseases of essentially \nevery organ system."\n\nRoland L. Weinsier, MD, DrPH \n\nLida, my advise to you is that you tell your family members to try to find \na physician who has an understanding of the role that vitamins and minerals\n(yes even magnesium may play a role in depression) play in depression and \nwho could get a nutritional profile run. Menopause is often a time when \nwomen suffer depression. There are a lot of hormonal changes that are \noccuring but they are not the same ones that occur during PMS. A \nnutritionist may also be able to help. Not too long ago a poster mentioned \nthat his nutritionist had diagnosed a selenium deficiency based on a red \ncell glutathionine peroxidase test(the specific test for the selenium \nreserve). Most clinical labs will not run this test and I advised him to \ntry to make sure that the lab that did the test was certified. There are \nalso a lot of hair and nail analysis labs setup to do trace mineral \nanalysis but these labs are not regulated. Checks of these labs using \ncertified standards, and also those doing water lead analysis, showed some \npretty shoddy testing was going on. If you or anyone else finds someone \nwho will run these speciality nutrition tests, make sure that they are \nusing a lab that has been certified under CLIA(the Clinical Laboratory \nImprovement Act). \n\nA diet analysis may be helpful since many nutrient reserves have been shown \nto correlate fairly well with the dietary intake as monitored by food logging \nand software analysis(Nutritionist IV and other software programs). But \nthere are still about half of the nutrients required by humans that do not \nshow a very good correlation between apparent dietary intake and reserve status.\nUntil we have more nutritional assessment clinical labs in operation in the \nU.S. and physicians who have been trained how to use the nutritional \nprofile that these labs provide to devise a treatment approach that uses \ndiet changes and supplementation, anti-depressants will probably continue \nto be the best approach to depression.\n\nMartin Banschbach, Ph.D.\nProfessor of Biochemistry and Chairman\nDepartment of Biochemistry and Microbiology\nOSU College of Osteopathic Medicine\n\n"Without discourse, there is no remembering, without remembering, there is \nno learning, without learning, there is only ignorance."\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n',
'From: livesey@solntze.wpd.sgi.com (Jon Livesey)\nSubject: Re: Genocide is Caused by Atheism\nOrganization: sgi\nLines: 13\nDistribution: world\nNNTP-Posting-Host: solntze.wpd.sgi.com\n\nIn article <1993Apr19.112008.26198@monu6.cc.monash.edu.au>, darice@yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au (Fred Rice) writes:\n|> \n|> By the way, Jon, I found a reference to my claim that the percentage of\n|> the population that suffers from depression has been increasing this\n|> century (as you requested). I will start a new heading ("thread") to\n|> post it under.\n\nCool, then we can discuss the increase in radio and TV use, \nthe increase in the use of fossil fuels, the increase in air \ntravel, and consumption of processed bread, and you can\ninstruct us on which of them causes increased depression.\n\njon.\n',
'From: poram@ihlpb.att.com\nSubject: Re: Deuterocanonicals, esp. Sirach\nOrganization: AT&T\nLines: 86\n\nIn article <May.7.01.09.00.1993.14498@athos.rutgers.edu> revdak@netcom.com (D. Andrew Kille) writes:\n>Dave Davis (ddavis@cass.ma02.bull.com) wrote:\n>\n>[lots deleted, with which I generally agree; there is no inherently\n>defensible argument for the inclusion or exclusion of the Deuterocanonical\n>books]\n\n>: I think everyone would agree that principles that cannot be \n>: consistently applied are not very useful as principles. \n>: So, if we are to exclude them (not accord them the authority of\n>: Scripture) we would appear to require other reasons. What might these \n>: reasons be?\n\nLets talk about principles. If we accept that God sets the\nstandards for what ought to be included in Scripture - then we\ncan ask:\n1. Is it authoritative?\n2. Is it prophetic?\n3. Is it authentic?\n4. Is it dynamic?\n5. Is it received, collected, read and used?\n\nOn these counts, the apocrapha falls short of the glory of God.\nTo quote Unger\'s Bible Dictionary on the Apocrapha:\n1. They abound in historical and geographical inaccuracies and\nanachronisms.\n2. They teach doctrines which are false and foster practices\nwhich are at variance with sacred Scripture.\n3. They resort to literary types and display an artificiality of\nsubject matter and styling out of keeping with sacred Scripture.\n4. They lack the distinctive elements which give genuine\nScripture their divine character, such as prophetic power and\npoetic and religious feeling.\n\n>: \n>: My interim conclusion is that Protestant exclusion of \n>: (at least one of) these writings is one of those \'traditions\n>: of men\' one hears of so often. They were excluded during the\n>: Reformation, and that appears to be the reason many people\n>: continue to exclude them.\n\nBut the problem with this argument lies in the assumption that\nthe Hebrew canon included the Apocrapha in the first place, and\nit wasn\'t until the sixteenth century that Luther and co. threw\nthem out. The Jewish council you mentioned previously didn\'t\naccept them, so the reformation protestants had good historical\nprecedence for their actions. Jerome only translated the\napocrapha under protest, and it was literally \'over his dead\nbody\' that it was included in the catholic canon.\n\n>The simple fact is that Protestant exclusion, Roman inclusion, Orthodox\n>inclusion of still other books, or any other definition of a closed canon\n>is the decision of a community of faith about what the standard collection\n>of scripture shall be for that community. They _all_ are "traditions of\n>men." Whether one considers that to be a problem or not depends on which\n>community happens to be yours, and how you accept/ define authority within\n>it. I personally believe that the concept of a closed canon, whether\n>Catholic, Protestant, or Orthodox is one that developed rather late in the\n>history of the church, and which has not served the church well.\n\nHow do you then view the words: "I warn everyone who hears the\nwords of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds anything to\nthem, God will add to him the plagues described in this book.\nAnd if anyone takes away from this book the prophecy, God will\ntake away from him his share in the tree of life and in the\nholy city" (Rev 22.18-9)\nSurely this sets the standard and not just man-made traditions.\n\nIt is also noteworthy to consider Jesus\' attitude. He had no\nargument with the pharisees over any of the OT canon (John\n10.31-6), and explained to his followers on the road to Emmaus \nthat in the law, prophets and psalms which referred to him - the \nOT division of Scripture (Luke 24.44), as well as in Luke 11.51\ntaking Genesis to Chronicles (the jewish order - we would say\nGenesis to Malachi) as Scripture.\n\n>See Dr. Lee MacDonald\'s _The Formation of the Christian Biblical Canon_\n>(Abingdon, 1988) for a clear and faithful examination of the origins and\n>issues of the canon.\n\nI am not familiar with the book. \nSome other arguments you might like to consider are found in\nChapter 3 of Josh McDowell\'s Evidence That Demands A Verdict.\n\nBarney Resson\n"Many shall run to and fro, & knowledge shall increase" (Daniel)\n',
'From: paj@uk.co.gec-mrc (Paul Johnson)\nSubject: Re: HELP for Kidney Stones ..............\nReply-To: paj@uk.co.gec-mrc (Paul Johnson)\nOrganization: GEC-Marconi Research Centre, Great Baddow, UK\nLines: 28\n\nIn article <etxmow.735561695@garboc29> etxmow@garbo.ericsson.se (Mats Winberg) writes:\n\n> Isn\'t there a relatively new treatment for kidney stones involving\n> a non-invasive use of ultra-sound where the patient is lowered\n> into some sort of liquid when he/she undergoes treatment? I\'m sure\n> I\'ve read about it somewhere. If I remember it correctly it is a\n> painless and effective treatment.\n> A couple of weeks ago I visited a hospital here in Stockholm and\n> saw big signs showing the way to the "Kidney stone chrusher" ...\n\nI saw this a few years ago on "Tomorrow\'s World" (low-brow BBC\ntechnology news program). The patient is lowered into a bath of\nde-ionized water and carefully positioned. High intensity pressure\nwaves are generated by an electric spark in the water (you don\'t get\nelectrocuted because de-ionised water does not conduct). These waves are\nfocused on the kidneys by a parabolic reflector and cause the stone to\nbreak up. This is completely painless.\n\nOf course, you then have to get these little bits of gravel through\nthe urethra. Ouch!\n\nPaul.\n\n-- \nPaul Johnson (paj@gec-mrc.co.uk).\t | Tel: +44 245 73331 ext 3245\n--------------------------------------------+----------------------------------\nThese ideas and others like them can be had | GEC-Marconi Research is not\nfor $0.02 each from any reputable idealist. | responsible for my opinions\n',
"From: johnf@HQ.Ileaf.COM (John Finlayson)\nSubject: Re: feverfew for migraines\nNntp-Posting-Host: findog\nOrganization: Interleaf, Inc.\nLines: 22\n\nIn article <ltrdroINNltf@exodus.Eng.Sun.COM> brenda@bookhouse.Eng.Sun.COM (Brenda Bowden) writes:\n>\n>Does anyone know about these studies? Or have experience with feverfew?\n>I'm skeptical, but open to trying it if I can find out more about this.\n>What is feverfew, and how much would you take to prevent migraines (if \n>this is a good idea, that is)? Are there any known risks or side effects\n>of feverfew? \n>\n>Thanks in advance for any info!\n>Brenda\n\nI've tried it, and so has one friend of mine. No known side effects or\nrisks. It didn't seem to work for us, but several studies now have \nsuggested it does work for many people, so I think it's worth a try.\n\nYou can find it in capsule form at health food stores. Up to six capsules\na day was recommended, if I remember correctly. It can also be prepared \nas a tea.\n\nGood luck,\n\nJohn\n",
"From: tad@ssc.com (Tad Cook)\nSubject: Re: Krillean Photography\nOrganization: very little\nLines: 37\n\nIn article <1993Apr26.120417.22328@linus.mitre.org> gpivar@mitre.org(The Pancake Emporium) writes:\n>In article <1993Apr22.211005.21578@scorch.apana.org.au>, bill@scorch.apana.org.au (Bill Dowding) writes:\n>|> todamhyp@charles.unlv.edu (Brian M. Huey) writes:\n>|> \n>|> >I think that's the correct spelling..\n>|> >\tI am looking for any information/supplies that will allow\n>|> >do-it-yourselfers to take Krillean Pictures. I'm thinking\n>|> >that education suppliers for schools might have a appartus for\n>|> >sale, but I don't know any of the companies. Any info is greatly\n>|> >appreciated.\n>|> \n>|> Krillean photography involves taking pictures of minute decapods resident in \n>|> the seas surrounding the antarctic. Or pictures taken by them, perhaps.\n>|> \n>|> Bill from oz\n>|> \n>\n>\n>Bill,\n>No flame intended but you're way, way off base. In simple terms Kirilian\n>photography registers the electromagnetical fields around objects, in simple,\n>it takes pictures of your aura.\n>|> \n>\n>-- \n>Greg \n>\nYou're confused. You are talking about KIRILIAN photography.\n\nBill is talking KRILLEAN photography.\n\n\n-- \n | tad@ssc.com (if it bounces, use 3288544@mcimail.com) |\n | Tad Cook | Packet Amateur Radio: | Home Phone: |\n | Seattle, WA | KT7H @ N7DUO.WA.USA.NA | 206-527-4089 |\n\n",
"From: werner@soe.berkeley.edu (John Werner)\nSubject: Re: Help with antidepressants requested.\nOrganization: UC Berkeley School of Education\nLines: 39\nDistribution: world\nNNTP-Posting-Host: tol7mac19.soe.berkeley.edu\n\nIn article <736250544snx@penguin.equinox.gen.nz>,\nblubird@penguin.equinox.gen.nz (Gordon Taylor) wrote:\n\n> The Prozac gave very bad anxiety/jitters and insomina, it was impossible to \n> sit still for more than a minute or so.\n\nI tried Prozac a few months ago, and had some insomnia from it, but no\nanxiety or jitters. I probably could have lived with the insomnia if the\nProzac had done any good, but it only provided a tiny benefit. Maybe\nbecause the person who prescribed it didn't know much and gave up after a\n20mg dose didn't work.\n\nNow I'm seeing a psychiatrist who has put me on Zoloft (another serotonin\nreuptake inhibitor like Prozac). One pill/day (50mg) seemed to help some. \nNow I'm trying 100mg/day. Zoloft has fewer and milder side effects than\nProzac. I think my doctor said that only 4% of the people taking Zoloft\nhave to discontinue it because of side effects. The only problem I'm\nhaving is some minor GI distress, but nothing too annoying. Hopefully the\nZoloft will work. Maybe your friend should try this one next.\n\nMy psychiatrist's strategy seems to be to first try one of the serotonin\ndrugs, usually Prozac. If that works, great. If it works but has too many\nside effects, try Zoloft or maybe Paxil. If the serotonin drugs don't work\nat all, try one of the tricyclics like desipramine.\n\n>...suggestions as to the next step?\n\nHaving a doctor who knows something about antidepressants can make a big\ndifference. My psychiatrist claims that most GPs and FPs don't have much\nexperience in this area, and from what I've seen I'm inclined to believe\nhim. I think I know more about antidepressants than the people at my\nfamily practitioner's office.\n\nDisclaimer: I'm not a doctor; what I know about this comes from talking to\nmy psychiatrist and reading sci.med. \n\n--\nJohn Werner werner@soe.berkeley.edu\nUC Berkeley School of Education 510-596-5868\n",
'From: christen@astro.ocis.temple.edu (Carl Christensen)\nSubject: Re: Where did the hacker ethic go?\nOrganization: Temple University\nLines: 14\nNntp-Posting-Host: astro.ocis.temple.edu\nX-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]\n\nI think the main reason is that in the good old hacker days of the young(er)\nGates\' and Jobs\' of the world, the computer was not as widespread a\nphenomenom as it is now. With the increased popularity of the PC\ncome a plethora of mundane business uses which required more practical\nminded and narrower-focused programmers.\n\nWhy be a hacker when you can get a good job programming databases or\nprograms for accountants? Basically, the yuppies caught up and\ndisciplined the hackers, and molded them in their own image.\n\n--\nCarl Christensen /~~\\_/~\\ ,,, Dept. of Computer Science\nchristen@astro.ocis.temple.edu | #=#==========# | Temple University \n"Curiouser and curiouser!" - LC \\__/~\\_/ ``` Philadelphia, PA USA \n',
'From: tysoem@facman.ohsu.edu (Marie E Tysoe)\nSubject: Natural Alternatives to Estrogen\nOrganization: Oregon Health Sciences University\nLines: 2\nNntp-Posting-Host: facman\n\nNeed Diet for Diverticular Disease\nand ideas for gastrointestinal distress\n',
'From: gorgen@ann-arbor.applicon.slb.com (David Gorgen)\nSubject: Need help: Z-buffering lines & areas together\nOrganization: Applicon, Inc.; Ann Arbor, MI (USA)\nKeywords: Z-buffer, roundoff, lines, areas\nLines: 84\n\nI\'m asking for help on a sticky problem involving unreasonably low\napparent precision in Z-buffering, that I\'ve encountered in 2 different\nPEX implementations. I can\'t find any discussion of this problem in any\nresources I can lay hands on (e.g. the comp.windows.x.pex FAQ, Gaskins\'s\n_PEXlib_Programming_Manual_, vendors\' documentation).\n\nI\'m posting this article by itself on comp.graphics, and virtually the\nsame article with a test program demonstrating the problem on\ncomp.windows.x.pex. The problem is hard to describe without pictures,\nhence this article is longish. If you can run PEXlib 5.x programs and\nare interested, I encourage you to build and run the test program in\ncomp.windows.x.pex to see the effect yourself and play with my approach\nto dealing with it. (It depends on the utility code from the above\nGaskins book; instructions for fetching it via anonymous FTP are given.)\n\nThe problem to be solved is to eliminate or minimize "stitching"\nartifacts resulting from the use of Z-buffering with polylines that are\ncoplanar with filled areas. The interpolated Z values along a line will\ndiffer slightly, due to roundoff error, from the interpolated Z values\nacross an area, even when the endpoints of the line are coincident with\nvertices of the area. Because of this, it\'s a tossup whether the\nZ-buffer will allow the line pixels or the area pixels to be displayed.\nVisually, the result tends to be a dashed-line effect even though the\nline is supposed to be solid.\n\nUsing the PEXlib API, my approach to a solution is to use two slightly\ndifferent PEX view mapping transforms, in two view table entries, one\nfor the areas and one for the lines. The PEX structures or immediate-\nmode output must be organized so that one view table index is always in\neffect for areas, and the other is always in effect for lines. The\nresult is a slight shift in NPC Z coordinates for the lines, so as to\nattempt to bias the tossup situations in favor of the lines.\n\nThis shift is effected by moving the front and back clipping planes used\nin the PEXlib view table entry for lines just a hair "backwards" (i.e.\nsmaller VRC Z coordinates), compared to their positions in the view\ntable entry used for areas. This means that when a point is transformed\nto NPC, its Z value will be slightly bigger if it comes from a line than\nif it comes from an area, thus accomplishing the desired bias.\n\nI would expect the Z roundoff errors which cause the problem to amount\nto a few units at most, out of the entire dynamic range of the Z-buffer,\ntypically from 0 to 65535 if not 16777215 (i.e. 16 or 24 bit Z-buffers).\nTherefore, it seems that a tiny fraction of the range of Z in VRC\nbetween the front and back clip planes ought to suffice to reliably fix\nthe stitching.\n\nBut in fact, experience shows that the shift has to be as much as 0.003\nto 0.006 of the range. (Empirically, it\'s worst when the NPC Z\ncomponent of the slope of the surface is high, i.e. when it appears more\nor less edge-on to the viewer.) It\'s as if only 8 or 9 bits of the\nZ-buffer have any dependable meaning! This amount is so great that one\nproblem is replaced by another: sometimes the polylines "show through"\nareas which they are supposed to lie behind.\n\nI\'ve observed the problem on both Hewlett-Packard and Digital\nworkstation PEX servers, to approximately the same degree. The test\nprogram demonstrates the problem on an MIT PEXlib 5.x implementation;\nthis version is known to compile and run on an HP-UX system with PEX\n5.1.\n\nOpen questions:\n (1) Why does this happen?\n -- Am I configuring the PEX view table wrongly?\n -- Is there a systematic difference in Z interpolation for lines\n as opposed to areas (e.g. pixel centers versus corners) which\n could be corrected for?\n -- Are PEX implementors wantonly discarding Z precision in their\n interpolators?\n -- Something else?\n (2) What to do about it?\n -- Can I fix my use of the view table to allow better precision\n in Z-buffered HLHSR?\n -- Is there another approach I can take to remove the stitching\n artifacts?\n -- Am I just out of luck?\n\nAny help would be immensely appreciated!\n\n-- \n===============================================================================\nDave Gorgen Internet: gorgen@ann-arbor.applicon.slb.com\nApplicon Inc. gorgen@aaaca1.sinet.slb.com\nAnn Arbor, Michigan (USA) UUCP: ...!uunet!sharkey!applga!gorgen\n',
'From: nagle@netcom.com (John Nagle)\nSubject: Re: Point in Polygon routine needed\nOrganization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)\nLines: 18\n\nAndrew Lewis Tepper <at15+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:\n>I don\'t know if this routine is "standard", I just came up with it recently:\n>For a polygon of points p1...pn, and a point P, make a table as follows:\n>T(1)= angle from p1 to P to p2\n>T(2)= angle from p2 to P to p3\n>...\n>T(n)= angle from pn to P to p1\n>express all angles as: -PI < angle < PI.\n>Add all entries in the table. If the sum = 0, the point is outside. If\n>the sum is +/- PI, the point is inside. If the point is +/- xPI, you\n>have a strange polygon. If ANY angle was = +/-PI, the point is on the\n>border.\n\n I think it\'s known, but it\'s neat.\n\n Can it be extended to 3D?\n\n\t\t\t\t\t\tJohn Nagle\n',
"From: msnyder@nmt.edu (Rebecca Snyder)\nSubject: centi- and milli- pedes\nOrganization: New Mexico Tech\nLines: 10\n\nDoes anyone know how posionous centipedes and millipedes are? If someone\nwas bitten, how soon would medical treatment be needed, and what would\nbe liable to happen to the person?\n\n(Just for clarification - I have NOT been bitten by one of these, but my\nhouse seems to be infested, and I want to know 'just in case'.)\n\nRebecca\n\n\n",
'From: biz@soil.princeton.edu (Dave Bisignano)\nSubject: Re: Why do people become atheists?\nReply-To: biz@soil.princeton.edu\nOrganization: Princeton University\nLines: 11\n\nIn article <May.9.05.41.56.1993.27583@athos.rutgers.edu>, gt7122b@prism.gatech.edu (Randal Lee Nicholas Mandock) writes:\n| Bob reminds me of my roommate. In order to disbelieve atheism, he says \n| he will need to be proven wrong about it. Well, I don\'t even waste \n| my time trying. I tell him that he\'ll just have to take my word for it. \n| In response, he tells me he will say an "atheist\'s prayer" for me. \n\n\n\nWho is the "atheist\'s prayer" being said to?\n\n \n',
"From: decay@cbnewsj.cb.att.com (dean.kaflowitz)\nSubject: Re: Origins of the bible.\nOrganization: AT&T\nDistribution: na\nKeywords: bible\nLines: 21\n\nIn article <1993Apr19.141112.15018@cs.nott.ac.uk>, eczcaw@mips.nott.ac.uk (A.Wainwright) writes:\n> Hi,\n> \n> I have been having an argument about the origins of the bible lately with\n> a theist acquaintance. He stated that thousands of bibles were discovered\n> at a certain point in time which were syllable-perfect. This therefore\n> meant that there must have been one copy at a certain time; the time quoted\n> by my acquaintace was approximately 50 years after the death of Jesus.\n\nYou can tell your friend from me that I was in a publisher's\nwarehouse one time and saw thousands of copies of The Joy of\nCooking and every one of them was syllable-perfect.\n\nI have since sold all I own and become a follower of The Joy\nof Cooking. The incident I mentioned convinced me, once and\nfor all, that The Joy of Cooking is inspired by god and the\none true path to his glory.\n\nDean Kaflowitz May the Sauce be With You\n\n\n",
'From: pmartz@dsd.es.com (Paul Martz)\nSubject: Re: Kubota Kenai/Denali specs\nNntp-Posting-Host: bambam\nReply-To: pmartz@dsd.es.com (Paul Martz)\nOrganization: Evans & Sutherland Computer Corp., Salt Lake City, UT\nLines: 30\n\nIn article <1rkntjINNd00@no-names.nerdc.ufl.edu>, lioness@maple.circa.ufl.edu writes:\n> Okay, I got enough replies about the Kubota Kenai/Denali systems that I\n> will post a summary of their capabilities. [ ... ]\n> \n> GRAPHICS\n> \n> Transform Modules\t1-6\t\t\t1-6\n> Frame Buffer Modules\t5,10,20\t\t\t5,10,20\n> Frame Buffer\t\t1280x1024x24bit\t\t1280x1024x24bit\n> \t\t\tdouble buffered\t\tdouble buffered\n> Z-buffer\t\t24-bit\t\t\t24-bit\n> Alpha/stencil\t\t8-bit\t\t\t8-bit\n ^^^^^^^^^^^^^\n\nDoes this mean they can either do alpha or stenciling, but not both\nsimultaneously?\n\n> Stereo support\tyes\t\t\tyes\n> Other:\t\t\tboth machines will double buffer or do\n ^^\n> \t\t\t\tstereo output per window. Both have an\n> \t\t\t\tauxiliary video output that is RS-170A,\n> \t\t\t\tNTSC, and PAL\n\nSame question again, does this mean they can either do double\nbuffering or stereo, but not both simultaneously?\n-- \n\n -paul\tpmartz@dsd.es.com\n\t\tEvans & Sutherland\n',
"From: gzc@mserv1.dl.ac.uk (G. Coulter,office,extension,homephone)\nSubject: Re: REAL-3D\nOrganization: Daresbury Laboratory, UK\nLines: 32\nDistribution: world\nReply-To: gzc@mserv1.dl.ac.uk\nNNTP-Posting-Host: dlsg.dl.ac.uk\n\nIn article 2965@vall.dsv.su.se, matt-dah@dsv.su.se (Mattias Dahlberg) writes:\n>Rauno Haapaniemi (raunoh@otol.fi) wrote:\n>\n>> Earlier today I read an ad for REAL-3D animation & ray-tracing software\n>> and it looked very convincing to me.\n>\n>Yes, it looks like very good indeed.\n>\n>> However, I don't own an Amiga and so I began to wonder, if there's a PC\n>> version of it.\n>\n>Nope.\n\n\n\tDid I not hear that there maybe some ports of Real3D Version2\n \tin the pipeline somewhere, Possibly Unix. Not too sure though\n please put me straight.\n\n -Gary- WORK : SERC Daresbury Lab.\n INTERNET: G.Coulter@Daresbury.AC.UK\n UNI : Staffordshire University\n HARDWARE: A2000/000/20 & A4000/040/120\n>\n>--\n>=========================================================\n>= Regards = email: = 1280x512x262000+ = \n>= Mattias = matt-dah@dsv.su.se = I love it. =\n>=========================================================\n\n\n\n\n",
"From: wbrand@krishna.shearson.com (Willy Brandsdorfer)\nSubject: digital cameras\nArticle-I.D.: krishna.WBRAND.93Apr29122020\nDistribution: comp.multimedia\nOrganization: Lehman Brothers\nLines: 16\n\n\n\tI'm interested in obtaining the highest possible image capture in a \nMS-Windows application. The resulting image must go to print and high resolution\nis the name of the game. I'm familiar with (and unhappy with) composite video\ncapture technology. What kind of resolution can I get out of an SVHS signal? \nWhat about RGB (and who makes RGB cameras)? Does anyone have any experience\nwith digital cameras? \n\nAny help at all would be greatly appreciated.\n\n----------------------------------------------------------------------\nWilliam Brandsdorfer | UUCP: !uunet!lehman.com!wbrand\nLehman Brothers | INET: wbrand@lehman.com\n388 Greenwich St. | Voice: (212) 464-3835\nNew York, N.Y. 10013 | \n----------------------------------------------------------------------\n",
'From: banschbach@vms.ocom.okstate.edu\nSubject: Re: Chelation therapy\nLines: 51\nNntp-Posting-Host: vms.ocom.okstate.edu\nOrganization: OSU College of Osteopathic Medicine\n\nIn article <1rh3seINNfkc@newsstand.cit.cornell.edu>, Renee <rme1@cornell.edu> writes:\n> Does anyone here know anything about chelation therapy using EDTA? My\n> uncle has emphesema, and a doctor wants to try it on him. We are\n> wondering if:\n> \n> 1. Is there any evidence EDTA chelation therapy is beneficial for his\n> condition, or any condition?\n> \n> 2. What possible side effects are there. How can they be mimimized?\n> \n> Please respond via e-mail to rme1@cornell.edu\n> \n> Thanks,\n> Renee\n\nEDTA(chelation therapy) has been used by some physicians to try to remove \ncalcium from calcified plaques in the arterial system(not approved for such \nuse). There is also the possibility that lung tissue in patients with lung \ndisease has become calcified(chest x-rays would show this). There are side\n-effects to the use of EDTA because it is not specific for calcium(it also \nbinds other minerals). I think that there have been some deaths when \nEDTA chelation therapy has been used because of mineral imbalances that \nwere not detected and corrected. In animal studies, the best way to remove \ncalcium from plaques in rabbits was to supplement the rabbits with vitamin C \nand magnesium(rabbits already synthesize their own vitamin C, the extra \nvitamin C was given in their diets to help the magnesium displace the calcium \nfrom the plaques).\n\nThe calcification process that occurs in both plaques and the lung probably \ncan be prevented if magnesium is used in supplemental form. Most patietns \nwith calcium deposits are found to be deficient in calcium.\n\n\t1. "Magnesium interrationships in ischemic heart disease: A review"\n\t Am J Clin Nutr 27(1):59-79(1974). Supplementation with \n\t magnesium will prevent clacification of blood vessels. \n\n\t2. "The importance of magnesium deficiency in cardiovascular \n\t disease" Am. Heart J 94:649-57(1977). The need to measure the \n\t serum concentration in all patients with heat disease cannot be \n\t overemphasized. This is a review article.\n\n\t3. "Effect of dietary magnesium on development of atherosclerosis \n\t in cholesterol-fed rabbits" Atherosclerosis 10:732-7(1990). \n\t Magnesium supplementation greatly decreased the formation of \n\t plaques in rabbits feed a diet that had 1% by weight cholesterrol \n\t added to their normal food.\n\nSince EDTA will also bind magnesium, I\'ve never really liked it\'s use for \nthe reversal of athersclerosis or now apparently in emphesema patients.\n\nMarty B.\n',
"From: dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer)\nSubject: Re: Candida(yeast) Bloom, Fact or Fiction\nArticle-I.D.: spdcc.1993Apr27.025937.14312\nOrganization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA\nLines: 24\n\nIn article <1993Apr26.172836.1@vms.ocom.okstate.edu> banschbach@vms.ocom.okstate.edu writes:\n>Neither of these bacteria are obligate anaerobes with are \n>much more important in dealing with the diarrhea problem.\n\nTHE diarrhea problem? WHAT diarrhea problem? First, candidal overgrowth is\nnot a frequent problem during antibiotic therapy, and not all cases of\nantibiotic-related diarrhea have anything to do with candida. But a case\nof vaginal candidiasis or oral thrush after antibiotic therapy isn't going\nto surprise anyone either. That's not what people are disagreeing with.\n\n>Anti-fungals, a low carbohydrate diet and vitamin A \n>supplementation may all help to minimize the local irritation until the \n>good bacteria can take over control of the food supply again and lower the \n>pH to basically starve the candida out.\n\nOh, really? Where'd you come up with this? You know, it's really\nappalling to see you try to comment authoritatively on clinical matters\nin a bizarre synthesis from reading reports in the literature.\nBobbing for citations in the research literature isn't medicine.\nI hope you're not giving the wrong idea to your medical students.\n\n-- \nSteve Dyer\ndyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer\n",
'From: mserv@mozart.cc.iup.edu (Mail Server)\nSubject: Christian Homosexuality (part 1 of 2)\nLines: 288\n\nNote: I am breaking this reply into 2 parts due to length.\n\nmls@panix.com (Michael Siemon) writes:\n>In article <May.11.02.36.34.1993.28074@athos.rutgers.edu> \n>mserv@mozart.cc.iup.edu (someone named Mark) writes:\n>>mls@panix.com (Michael Siemon) writes:\n>>>Homosexual Christians have indeed "checked out" these verses. Some of\n>>>them are used against us only through incredibly perverse interpretations.\n>>>Others simply do not address the issues.\n>> \n>>I can see that some of the above verses do not clearly address the issues, \n> \n>There are exactly ZERO verses that "clearly" address the issues.\n\nI agree that there are no verses that have gone unchallenged by gay rights \nactivists. But if there are zero verses that "\'clearly\' address the issues," \ndoesn\'t that mean that there are also no verses that clearly *support* your \ncase? Are you sure you want to say that there are zero verses that clearly \naddress the issues?\n\n>>however, a couple of them seem as though they do not require "incredibly \n>>perverse interpretations" in order to be seen as condemning homosexuality.\n> \n>The kind of interpretation I see as "incredibly perverse" is that applied\n>to the story of Sodom as if it were a blanket equation of homosexual\n>behavior and rape. Since Christians citing the Bible in such a context\n>should be presumed to have at least READ the story, it amounts to slander\n>-- a charge that homosexuality == rape -- to use that against us.\n\nThe story in Genesis 19 tells of the citizens of Sodom demanding an opportunity \nto "know" the two men who were Lot\'s guests; the fact that the Sodomites became \nangry when Lot offered them his daughters could be seen as indicating that they \nwere interested only in homosexual intercourse. Yes, what they wanted was \nrape, homosexual rape, and everybody agrees that that is wrong. Some \nChristians believe that the homosexual aspect of their desire was just as \nsinful as the rape aspect of their desire. The passage does not say what it \nwas that so offended God, whether it was the homosexuality, or the intended \nrape, or both, but I believe that it is only fair to consider all the possible \nalternatives in the light of related Scriptures. I do not believe that those \nwho believe God was offended by both the homosexuality and the rape are trying \nto say that homosexuality is itself a form of rape.\n\nYou seems to take the view that the *only* sin described in Gen. 19 is in the \nfact that the Sodomites wanted to commit rape, and that it is unfair to \n"stigmatize" their homosexuality by associating it with the sin of rape. I can \nsee how you might reach such a conclusion if you started from the conclusion \nthat there is nothing wrong with homosexuality, but then again we\'re not \nsupposed to start from our conclusions because that\'s circular reasoning. If \nGod is in fact opposed to homosexual intercourse in general, then the more \nprobably interpretation is that He was at least as offended by the Sodomites\' \nblatant homosexuality as He was by their intent to commit rape. Later on I \nwill document why I believe the Old Testament portrays God as One who despises \n*any* homosexual intercourse, even if both partners are consenting adults.\n\n>>"... Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolators, nor adulterers, \n>>nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor \n>drunkards, \n>>nor revilers, nor swindlers, shall inherit the kingdom of God. And such \n>were \n>>some of you..." I Cor. 6:9-11.\n> \n>The moderator adequately discusses the circularity of your use of _porneia_\n>in this. \n\nThe moderator found my proposal to be circular in that he regarded the church \nas the proper authority for determining what *kinds* of marriages would be \nlegitimate, and thus the church\'s refusal to recognize "perverted" marriages \nwas circular reasoning. My questions, however, had nothing to do with the \nchurch ordaining new kinds of marriages, and so his argument was something of a \nstraw man. In terms of my original question, the precise \ndefinition/translation of "porneia" isn\'t really important, unless you are \ntrying to argue that the Bible doesn\'t really condemn extramarital sex. I\'m \nnot sure the moderator was trying to do that.\n\nIn any case, I think both you and the moderator have missed the point here. \nWhen Jesus was asked about divorce, He replied, "Have you not read, that He who \ncreated them from the beginning made them male and female, and said, \'For this \ncause a man shall leave his father and mother and shall cleave to his wife; and \nthe two shall become one flesh\'? Consequently they are no longer two, but one \nflesh. What therefore God has joined together, let no man separate." (Mt. \n19:4-6). I read here that the sexual union of a man (male) and his wife \n(female) is a divinely-ordained union. In other words, the institution of \nheterosexual marriage is something ordained and established by God--not by men, \nand not by the church, but by God. Men are not supposed to dissolve this \nunion, in Jesus\' words, because it is not something created by men.\n\nThis is not circular reasoning, this is just reading God\'s word. I read in the \nBible that God ordained the union of male and female. I do not read of any \nsimilar divinely-ordained union of two males or two females. Granted, there \nhave been uninspired men who have ordained "alternative" unions (isn\'t Caligula \nreported to have "married" his horse?), but the only union that Jesus refers to \nas "what God has joined together" is the heterosexual union of a man and his \nwife.\n\n(Pardon me for mentioning Caligula. I know that\'s probably inflammatory, and I \nshould save it for the discussion on bestiality, in part 2 of this post. \nPlease hold off on passing judgement on me until you have read that section of \nmy reply.)\n\nAnyway, my original question was not whether we should translate "porneia" in a \nway that condemns only a select few kinds of extramarital sex, my question was: \ngiven that heterosexual marriage is the only union described by the Bible as \ndivinely-ordained, and given a Biblical prohibition against sex outside of \nmarriage, is homosexual intercourse sinful? Of course, I see now that first we \nneed to ask whether the Bible really condemns sex outside of marriage. You \nseem to be trying to argue that only certain kinds of extramarital sex (and \nother sins) are really wrong:\n\n>>I think we can all agree (with Paul) that there are SOME kinds of\n>activity that could be named by "fornication" or "theft" or "coveting" or\n>"reviling" or "drunkenness" which would well deserve condemnation. We may\n>or may not agree to the bounds of those categories, however; and the very\n>fact that they are argued over suggests that not only is the matter not at\n>all "clear" but that Paul -- an excellent rhetorician -- had no interest\n>in MAKING them clear, leaving matters rather to our Spirit-led decisions,\n>with all the uncomfortable living-with-other-readings that has dominated\n>Christian discussion of ALL these areas.\n\nAlternatively, it may be that the definition of such terms as "porneia" and all \nthe rest was, in Paul\'s day, what we would call a FAQ; i.e. the Law, as the \n"tutor" appointed by God to lead us to Christ, had just spent some sixteen \ncenturies drumming into the heads of God\'s people the idea that things like \nhomosexual intercourse were abominations that deserved punishment by death. \nPerhaps Paul didn\'t go into detail on what "porneia" &c were because after 1600 \nyears he considered the question to have been dealt with already. Perhaps the \nreason God\'s apostles and prophets did not devote a great deal of time defining \na distinct, New Testament sexuality was because He did not intend any \nsignificant changes in the sexuality He had already established by the Law. \nI\'ll discuss the Law and homosexuality in greater detail below, but I just \nwanted to point out that the New Testament\'s failure to develop a detailed new \nstandard of sexuality is not necessarily evidence that God does not care about \nsexual conduct--especially after 1600 years of putting people to death for \npracticing homosexuality!\n\n>Homosexual behavior is no different. I (and the other gay Christians I\n>know) are adamant in condemning rape -- heterosexual or homosexual -- and\n>child molestation -- heterosexual or homosexual -- and even the possibly\n>"harmless" but obsessive kinds of sex -- heterosexual or homosexual --\n>that would stand condemned by Paul in the very continuation of the chapter\n>you cite [may I mildly suggest that what *Paul* does in his letter that\n>you want to use is perhaps a good guide to his meaning?]\n> \n> "\'I am free to do anything,\' you say. Yes, but not everything\n> is for my good. No doubt I am free to do anything, but I for one\n> will not let anything make free with me." [1 Cor. 6:12]\n> \n>Which is a restatement that we must have no other "god" before God. A\n>commandment neither I nor any other gay Christian wishes to break. Some\n>people are indeed involved in obsessively driven modes of sexual behavior.\n>It is just as wrong (though slightly less incendiary, so it\'s a secondary\n>argument from the \'phobic contingent) to equate homosexuality with such\n>behavior as to equate it with the rape of God\'s messengers.\n\nAnd how do you define an "obsessively driven" mode of sexual behavior? How do \nyou determine the difference between obsessive sexual behavior and normal sex \ndrives? Is the desire to have "sinful" sex an obsessively driven mode of \nbehavior? I think you see that this is circular reasoning: Why is it defined \nas sinful? Because it is obsessive. What makes it obsessive? The fact that \nthe person is driven to seek it even though it\'s sinful. Or is it obsessive \nbecause it is a desire for that which society condemns? Once again, that\'s \ncircular: Why is it defined as obsessive? Because the person wants it even \nthough society condemns it. Why does society condemn it? Because it is \nobsessive.\n\nYou seem to be trying to limit the Bible\'s condemnation of "porneia" to only \n"perverted" sex acts, but I don\'t think you can really define "perverted" \nwithout falling into exactly the same circularity you accuse me of. What, \nthen, is Paul condemning when he declares that "Fornicators...shall not enter \nthe kindgom of heaven"?\n\n>I won\'t deal with the exegesis of Leviticus, except very tangentially.\n>Fundamentally, you are exhibiting the same circularity here as in your\n>assumption that you know what _porneia_ means.\n\nI think you misunderstood me: I was not trying to make an argument on some \ntechnical definition of "porneia", I was raising the issues of the sinfulness \nof extramarital sex and the lack of any Scriptural evidence of a homosexual \ncounterpart to the divinely-ordained union of heterosexual couples.\n\n>There are plenty of\n>laws prohibiting sexual behavior to be found in Leviticus, most of\n>which Christians ignore completely. They never even BOTHER to examine\n>them. They just *assume* that they know which ones are "moral" and\n>which ones are "ritual." Well, I have news for you. Any anthropology\n>course should sensitize you to ritual and clean vs. unlcean as categories\n>in an awful lot of societies (we have them too, but buried pretty deep).\n>And I cannot see any ground for distinguishing these bits of Leviticus\n>from the "ritual law" which NO Christian I know feels applies to us.\n> \n>I\'m dead serious here. When people start going on (as they do in this\n>matter) about how "repulsive" and "unnatural" our acts are -- and what\n>do they know about it, huh? -- it is a solid clue to the same sort of\n>arbitrary cultural inculcations as the American prejudice against eating\n>insects.\n\nPlease remember what you just said here for when we discuss bestiality, in part \n2.\n\n>On what basis, other than assuming your conclusion, can you\n>say that the law against male-male intercourse in Leviticus is NOT a part\n>of the ritual law?\n\nI am glad you asked. Would you agree that if God condemns homosexual \nintercourse even among those who are not under the Law of Moses, then this \nwould show that God\'s condemnation of homosexual acts goes beyond the ritual \nlaw? If I can show you from Scripture that God punished the homosexual \nbehavior of people who were *not* under the Law of Moses, would you agree that \nGod\'s definition of homosexual intercourse as an abomination is not limited to \njust the ritual law and those who are under the Law?\n\nI\'ve been having a private Email discussion with a 7th Day Adventist on the \nsubject of the Sabbath, and my main point against a Christian sabbath-keeping \nrequirement has been that nowhere in Scripture does God command Gentiles to \nrest on the sabbath, nor does He ever condemn Gentiles for failing to rest on \nthe Sabbath. This illustrates the difference between universal requirements \nsuch as "Thou shalt not kill", and requirements that are merely part of the \n(temporary, Jews-only) Law of Moses, such as the Sabbath.\n\nThe point you are trying to make is that you think the classification of \nhomosexual intercourse as "an abomination" is *just* a part of the temporary, \nJews-only Law of Moses. I on the other hand believe that it was labelled by \nGod as an abomination for Gentiles as well as Jews, and that He punished those \nguilty of this behavior by death or exile. Here\'s why:\n\nBack in Genesis 15, God promises to give Abraham all the land that was then in \nthe possession of "the Amorite"--kinda hard on the Amorite, don\'t you think? \nBut in verse 16 we have a clue that this might not be as unjust as it sounds: \nit seems God is going to postpone this takeover for quite a while, because "the \niniquity of the Amorite is not yet complete".\n\nRemember, this is all long before there was a ritual law. What then was the \niniquity the Amorite was committing that, when complete, would justify his \nbeing cast out of his own land and/or killed? Go back and look at Lev. 18 \nagain. Verses 1-23 list a variety of sins, including child sacrifice, incest, \nhomosexuality, and bestiality. Beginning in verse 24, God starts saying, "Do \nnot defile yourselves by any of these things; for _by_all_these_ _things_ the \nnations which I am casting out before you _have_ _become_defiled_. For the \nland has become defiled, therefore I have visited its punishment upon it, so \nthe land has spewed out its inhabitants... For whoever does any of these \nabominations, those persons who do so shall be cut off from among their \npeople."\n\nNotice that God says the Gentile nations (who are *not* under the ritual Law of \nMoses) are about to be punished because they have "defiled" themselves and \ntheir land by committing "abominations" that include incest, bestiality, and \nhomosexuality. Flip ahead two chapters to Lev. 20, and you will find these \nsame "abominations" listed, and this time God decrees the death penalty on \nanyone involved in any of these things, including, specifically, a man "lying \nwith another man as one lies with a woman" (Lv. 20:13). Their \n"bloodguiltiness" was upon them, meaning that in God\'s eyes, they deserved to \ndie for having done such things. According to Lev. 18:26-29, even "the alien \n[non-Jew] who sojourns among you" was to refrain from these practices, on \npenalty of being "cut off [by God?] from among their people."\n\nUnder the circumstances, I believe it would be very difficult to support the \nclaim that in the Old Testament God objected only to the intended rape, and not \nthe homosexuality, in Sodom. Since God took the trouble to specifically list \nsex between two consenting men as one of the reasons for wiping out the \nCanaanite nations, (not homosexual rape, mind you, but plain, voluntary gay \nsex), I\'d say God was not neutral on the subject of homosexual behavior, even \nby those who had nothing to do with the Mosaic Covenant.\n\n>For those Christians who *do* think that *some* parts of Leviticus can\n>be "law" for Christians (while others are not even to be thought about)\n>it is incumbent on you *in every case, handled on its own merits* to\n>determine why you "pick" one and ignore another.\n\nAccording to II Tim. 3:16, all Scripture is inspired by God and is profitable \nfor teaching, reproof, correction, and training in righteousness; thus, I \nbelieve that even though we Gentile Christians are not under the Law, we can \nlearn from studying it. If a certain action is defined as a sin because it is \na violation of the Law, then it is a sin only for those who are under the Law \n(for example, in the case of Sabbath-keeping). Where God reveals that certain \nactions are abominations even for those who are not under the Law, then I \nconclude that God\'s objection to the practice is not based on whether or not a \nperson is under the Law, but on the sinfulness of the act itself. In the case \nof homosexuality, homosexual intercourse is defined by God as a defiling \nabomination for Gentiles as well as Jews, i.e. for those who are not under the \nLaw as well as for those who are. Thus, I am not at all trying to say that \nGentile Christians have any obligation to keep any part of the Law, I am simply \nsaying that God referred to homosexuality as a sin even for those who are not \nobligated to keep the Law. If this is so, then I do not think we can appeal to \nour exemption from the Law as valid grounds for legitimizing a practice God has \ndeclared a bloodguilty abomination that defiles both Jew and Gentile.\n\n(continued in Part 2)\n\n- Mark\n',
"From: king@reasoning.com (Dick King)\nSubject: Re: Krillean Photography\nNntp-Posting-Host: drums.reasoning.com\nOrganization: Reasoning Systems, Inc., Palo Alto, CA\nLines: 37\n\nIn article <C65oIL.436@vuse.vanderbilt.edu> alex@vuse.vanderbilt.edu (Alexander P. Zijdenbos) writes:\n>FLAME ON\n>\n>Especially the USA should be grateful; after all, Columbus did not\n>drop off the edge of the earth.\n\n(WITH-COUNTERFLAME-ENABLED\n\n Columbus was indeed a crank, but not in the manner you think.\n\n The fact that the world was round was well known when he set sail. It was\n also well known that the circumference was about 25K miles, and that you could\n not reach Asia bo going west with current technology -- you would neither be\n able to carry enough supplies, nor get a long enough stretch of good sailing\n weather. Nobody thought he would fall off the edge of the world. Instead,\n they expected him to die at sea.\n\n Columbus thought for no good reason that the circumference was only 16K miles,\n making the trip practical.\n\n Unfortunately for Columbus and his shipmates, the Earth's circumference is\n indeed 25K miles.\n\n Fortunately for Columbus and his shipmates, there was a stopping place right\n about where Asia would have been had the circumference been 16K miles.\n\n\n My source is the recent PBS series on Columbus.\n\n)\n\n>\n>FLAME OFF, or end sermon :-)\n>\n>-- Alex\n\n\n",
'From: dan@ingres.com (a Rose arose)\nSubject: Re: "National repentance"\nOrganization: Representing my own views here\nLines: 63\n\nmcovingt@aisun3.ai.uga.edu (Michael Covington) writes:\n: I heard on the radio today about a Christian student conference where\n: Christians were called to "repent" of America\'s "national" sins, such\n: as sexual promiscuity.\n: \n: To which I reply: ...whoa there!\n: \n: How can I repent of _someone else\'s_ sin? I can\'t.\n: \n: And when I claim to "repent" of someone else\'s sin, am I not in fact\n: _judging_ him? Jesus equipped us to judge activities but warned us\n: not to judge people. "Judge not that ye be not judged."\n: \n: C. S. Lewis made the same point in an essay after World War II,\n: when some Christian leaders in Britain were urging "national repentance"\n: for the horrors (sins???) of World War II.\n: -- \n\nI see your point, but I cannot more strongly disagree.\n\nTo repent means to turn around. We, as a nation, have behaved incredibly\narrogantly toward God condoning, encouraging, and even forcing folks to\nparticipate in activity directly opposed to the written Word of God. We\nhave arrogantly set our nation far above the God who created it and allowed\nus the luxury of living in this land. We have set a bad example for other\nnations. We\'ve slaughtered unborn children by the millions. We have\nstricken the name of God from the classroom. We\'ve cheated God out of the\nhonor due Him at every turn, and we owe God an apology every bit as public\nas our sins have been.\n\nWhen Jesus said "Judge not that ye be not judged", he was not addressing\nthose like John the Baptist who had repented and were calling others to\nrepent. He was addressing those who remained in sin while heaping down\ncondemnation on others for their sins. His message to us all was to remove\nthe log from our own eye before removing the speck from our brother\'s. But\nHe also said to rebuke and to reprove. Don\'t forget that this is a command\ntoo.\n\nOur problem today is that we tend to judge and condemn as though we were\nrebuking and we tend to neglect bringing folks back to the Lord with the\nexcuse that we don\'t want to judge anyone.\n\nIn truth, what we need to do is to judge less and call others to repent more\nand to be able to distinguish between the two in our own motives. Call sin\nwhat it is and do so openly. Let it\'s charge fall correctly where it should.\nBut instead of running someone into hell over it, pull them out of their\nhellward path and onto the heavenward path.\n\n--\n-----------------------------------------------------------------------\n\t"I deplore the horrible crime of child murder...\n\t We want prevention, not merely punishment.\n\t We must reach the root of the evil...\n\t It is practiced by those whose inmost souls revolt\n\t from the dreadful deed...\n\t No mater what the motive, love of ease,\n\t\tor a desire to save from suffering the unborn innocent,\n\t\tthe woman is awfully guilty who commits the deed...\n\t but oh! thrice guilty is he who drove her\n\t\tto the desperation which impelled her to the crime."\n\n\t\t- Susan B. Anthony,\n\t\t The Revolution July 8, 1869\n',
'From: chu@TorreyPinesCA.ncr.com (Patrick Chu 3605)\nSubject: Compositing pictures on PC?\nOrganization: NCR (Torrey Pines Development Center)\nDisclaimer: This posting does not necessarily reflect the opinions of NCR.\nLines: 16\n\n\nI was wondering if anyone knows of a graphics package for the PC that\nwill do compositing of a series of pictures?\n\nWhat I mean by "compositing" is, say I have a live video clip\n(digitized) panning around a living room, and a computer-generated\nbird flying around the screen. I want to combine these two series of\npictures so that everywhere where the bird frames are black, I want\nthe living room picture to show through. Yes, I realize I can do this\nwith a genlock, and I do own a genlock, but I want to be able to do\nmanual compositing also. It\'s ok if I have to composite one frame at\na time; I assumed I\'d have to do that anyway. But being able to\ncomposite a series of frames would be even better.\n\nI\'ve looked around and I haven\'t found a PC package that will perform\nthis. Help, please!\n',
'From: kcochran@nyx.cs.du.edu (Keith "Justified And Ancient" Cochran)\nSubject: Re: YOU WILL ALL GO TO HELL!!!\nX-Disclaimer: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University\n\tof Denver for the Denver community. The University has neither\n\tcontrol over nor responsibility for the opinions of users.\nOrganization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept.\nLines: 16\n\nIn article <8473@pharaoh.cyborg.bt.co.uk> martin@pharaoh.cyborg.bt.co.uk (Martin Gorman) writes:\n>JSN104@psuvm.psu.edu writes:\n>\n>>YOU BLASHEPHEMERS!!! YOU WILL ALL GO TO HELL FOR NOT BELIEVING IN GOD!!!! BE\n>>PREPARED FOR YOUR ETERNAL DAMNATION!!!\n>>\n>Oh fuck off.\n\nActually, I just think he\'s confused. *I\'m* going to hell because I\'m Gay,\nnot becuase I don\'t believe in God.\n\n(I wonder if that means I can\'t come to Tammy & Deans picnic?)\n--\n=kcochran@nyx.cs.du.edu | B(0-4) c- d- e++ f- g++ k(+) m r(-) s++(+) t | TSAKC=\n=My thoughts, my posts, my ideas, my responsibility, my beer, my pizza. OK???=\n= "Because I\'m the Daddy. That\'s why." =\n',
'From: dlunt@segovia.ct_exploit (Danny Lunt)\nSubject: Re: Is there an FTP achive for USGS terrain dat\nOrganization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.\nLines: 2\nDistribution: world\nReply-To: dlunt@segovia.ct_exploit\nNNTP-Posting-Host: segovia.sim.es.com\n\nTry spectrum.xerox.com [192.70.225.78] in /pub/map/dem.\n\n',
"From: wbdst+@pitt.edu (William B Dwinnell)\nSubject: Re: Intel's PCI standard???\nOrganization: University of Pittsburgh\nLines: 7\n\n\nvamilliron: Yes, Intel's PCI is (another) Local Bus standard, which\ncan be used for graphics, although I believe Local Buses can be used\nfor other things, too. As far as I know, though, PCI Local Bus \nwould compete with VESA Local Bus, not the VESA graphics standard, but\nothers more enlightened might be able to shed more light on this\nmatter.\n",
"From: schnitzi@eustis.cs.ucf.edu (Mark Schnitzius)\nSubject: Re: Asimov stamp\nOrganization: University of Central Florida\nLines: 18\n\nbattin@cyclops.iucf.indiana.edu (Laurence Gene Battin) writes:\n\n>Apart from the suggestion that appeared in the letters column of\n>Skeptical Inquirer recently, has there been any further mention\n>about a possible Asimov commemorative stamp? If this idea hasn't\n>been followed up, does anyone know what needs to be done to get\n>this to happen? I think that its a great idea. Should we start a\n>petition or something?\n\nI'm sure all the religious types would get in a snit due\nto Asimov's atheism.\n\nDo we have any atheists on stamps now?\n\n\nMark Schnitzius\nschnitzi@eola.cs.ucf.edu\nUniversity of Central Florida\n",
"From: guest@rkw-lan.cs.up.ac.za (Guest user)\nSubject: CGA help wanted\nOrganization: Students network, Computer Science Department, University of Pretoria\nLines: 16\nDistribution: world\nNNTP-Posting-Host: lab2-11.cs.up.ac.za\n\nHi there,\n\nI'm looking for help on hi-rez CGA modes (hey, i know it sounds crazy but at\nthe moment it's got to do). My card's manual says it does something like\n640 by 400 2 colour and 640 by 200 4 colour (the card has 64k memory). Could \nanyone give me some help on how to implement these modes (Assembly language \nis fine). Any other usefull tips on the CGA regs will also help.\n\nThanx in advance...\n\nFrans.\n\n\nMy eMail is\n\nleander@up.ac.za\n",
'From: antonio@qualcom.qualcomm.com (Franklin Antonio)\nSubject: Re: Thermoscan ear thermometer\nNntp-Posting-Host: qualcom.qualcomm.com\nOrganization: Qualcomm, Inc., San Diego, CA\nLines: 39\n\nIn article <ASHWIN.93May1225032@leo.gatech.edu> ashwin@cc.gatech.edu (Ashwin Ram) writes:\n>Does the "Thermoscan" instrument really work? It is supposed to give you a\n>fast and accurate temperature reading in the ear. How far in the ear does\n>one have to insert the instrument? Is it worth the $100 it is currently\n>selling for?\n\nNo, they do not work well. My doctor started using one recently, and I\nthought the concept was so amazing that I bought one too. \n\nThe thing works by reading the infrared emissions from the ear drum.\nThe ear drum is hotter than the ear canal walls, so you have to point\nthe thing very carefully. This means tugging on the top of the ear\nto straighten out the ear canal, then inserting the thing snugly, then\npushing a button. Unfortunately, there are many things that can go wrong.\nIt is almost impossible to aim the thing correctly when you do it on \nyourself. I get readings which differ from each other by up to 2 degrees,\nand may differ from an oral thermometer by up to 2 degrees. \n\nI talked to one of the nurses in my doctor\'s office recently about this,\nand she said she didn\'t like them either, for same reasons. She did give\nme some instruction on how to tug on my ear, and what correct insertion\nfeels like, but she said she thought it was impossible to do correctly\non one\'s self. She also said that she and other nurses had complained to\nthe company about inaccurate readings, and that someone from the company\nhad told them to take great care to clean the infrared window at the end\nof the probe with alcohol from time to time. She demonstrated this prior\nto reading my temperature, and managed to get a reading within 0.5 degree\nof the oral temperature I took at home before driving to the Dr\'s office.\n\nI have also noticed tha some nurses click the button, then remove the\nprobe immediately. This causes wrong readings. In my experience, you\nhave to leave the probe in a good 1 to 2 seconds after clicking the button\nto get a good measurement. The nurse I talked with agreed. I suspect\nthat many people don\'t realize this, and therefore get bad readings for\nyet another reason.\n\nIn short, it\'s a great idea. It may work for some folks, but I believe\nit doesn\'t work well for a person who wants to take his own temperature.\n\n',
'From: af774@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Chad Cipiti)\nSubject: 3D Shark?\nOrganization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)\nLines: 15\nReply-To: af774@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Chad Cipiti)\nNNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu\n\n\nHi. I\'m looking for a 3D shark for use in a ray tracing rountine I\'m doing.\n I\'ll be using Vivid or POV, but it can be in any format. Are there any\n FTP sites with 3D objects or does anyone have a good 3D shark?\n\nThanks alot!\n\nChad\n\n\n-- \n .... New in 1993 \n ~ ~~ :::::.~~~ ~ ~ Sea World of Ohio Chad Cipiti \n~ ~~ ::SHARK:. ~ ~ cipiti@bobcat.ent.ohiou.edu\n ~~ .:ENCOUNTER:. ~~ "Make Contact." af774@cleveland.freenet.edu\n',
'Subject: Re: Localized fat reduction due to exercise (question\nFrom: RGINZBERG@eagle.wesleyan.edu (Ruth Ginzberg)\nDistribution: world\nOrganization: Philosophy Dept., Wesleyan University\nNntp-Posting-Host: wesleyan.edu\nX-News-Reader: VMS NEWS 1.20In-Reply-To: hchung@nyx.cs.du.edu\'s message of Sun, 25 Apr 93 20:32:23 GMTLines: 22\nLines: 22\n\nIn <1993Apr25.203223.28534@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> hchung@nyx.cs.du.edu writes:\n\n> I was just wondering if exercises specific to particular regions of the\n> body (such as thighs) will basically only tone the thighs, or if fat\n> from other parts of the body (such as breasts) would be affected just as\n> much.\n\nThere are two different mechanisms here: toning of muscles and reduction of\nfat. Exercises specific to particular muscles will tone only those muscles\nexercised (example: look at differences in arm circumferences between pitching\narms and non-pitching arms in major league pitchers). However, if exercise\nalso leads to reduction of body fat, the loss of body fat will be equally\ndistributed over the entire body. There is no way to "spot reduce" body fat\nother than surgically, through liposuction. Distribution of body fat is\ngenetically determined. Sometimes a very flabby muscle will look like "fat",\nso when that muscle gains some muscle tone it may *appear* as though the "fat"\nis "changing" into "muscle", but really fat and muscle tissues are totally\nseparate, and one does not ever "change into" the other.\n\n------------------------\nRuth Ginzberg <rginzberg@eagle.wesleyan.edu>\nPhilosophy Department;Wesleyan University;USA\n',
'From: kmldorf@utdallas.edu (George Kimeldorf)\nSubject: Re: Opinions on Allergy (Hay Fever) shots?\nNntp-Posting-Host: heath.utdallas.edu\nOrganization: Univ. of Texas at Dallas\nLines: 20\n\nIn article <1993Apr29.173817.25867@nntpd2.cxo.dec.com> tung@paaiec.enet.dec.com () writes:\n>\n>I have just started taking allergy shots a month ago and is \n>still wondering what I am getting into. A friend of mine told\n>me that the body change every 7 years (whatever that means)\n>and I don\'t need those antibody-building allergy shots at all.\n>Does that make sense to anyone?\n>\n>BTW, can someone summarize what is in the Consumer Report\n>February, 1988 article?\n\nI am reluctant to summarize it, for then you will have my opinion of what the\narticle says, rather than your own opinion. I think it is important enough\nfor you to take the trouble to go to the library and get the article. The\ntitle is "The shot doctors" and it appears on Pages 96-100 of the February,\n1988 issue of Consumer Reports. The following excerpt from the article may\nentice you to read the whole article:\n Too often, shots are overused....."When you put a patient on\n shots, you\'ve got an annuity for life," a former president of\n the American Academy of Allergy and Immunology told CU. [page 97]\n',
'From: jtheinon@klaava.Helsinki.FI (Jarkko Tapio Heinonen)\nSubject: FTP site for .pov files?\nOrganization: University of Helsinki\nLines: 9\n\nI know this has been asked a million time, but..\n\nWhat was the ftp site carrying 30-40 .ZIPs of full POV "source" files,\nincluding JACK.ZIP and KETTLE.ZIP? I\'ve once been there but\nunfortunately lost the address.\nI\'m in a little hurry with it, so please e-mail me at\njtheinon@kruuna.helsinki.fi. Thanks..\n\nJarkko\n',
'From: rol@athena.mit.edu (Roland Carel)\nSubject: surface/contour plot\nOrganization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology\nLines: 6\nDistribution: world\nNNTP-Posting-Host: mercury.mit.edu\nKeywords: plotting program, contour, mesh\n I am trying to find a program which can run under the environment\n\nULTRIX/X11R4 to plot surfaces and contour plots from a set of {x,y,z}.\nI would really appreciate any hint on the name of such a plotting program\nand where to find it.\n Thanks for your help.\n\n\n',
'From: haynes@cats.ucsc.edu (Jim Haynes)\nSubject: Re: Poisoning with heavy water (was Re: Too many MRIs?)\nOrganization: University of California; Santa Cruz\nLines: 12\nNNTP-Posting-Host: hobbes.ucsc.edu\n\n\nAll I can remember is that there was an article in Scientific American\nmaybe 20 years ago. As someone else noted rats or mice fed nothing\nbut heavy water eventually died, and the explanation was given.\n-- \nhaynes@cats.ucsc.edu\nhaynes@cats.bitnet\n\n"Ya can talk all ya wanna, but it\'s dif\'rent than it was!"\n"No it aint! But ya gotta know the territory!"\n Meredith Willson: "The Music Man"\n\n',
'From: nfotis@ntua.gr (Nick C. Fotis)\nSubject: (27 Apr 93) Computer Graphics Resource Listing : WEEKLY [part 2/3]\nLines: 1029\nReply-To: nfotis@theseas.ntua.gr (Nick (Nikolaos) Fotis)\nOrganization: National Technical Univ. of Athens\n\nArchive-name: graphics/resources-list/part2\nLast-modified: 1993/04/27\n\n\nComputer Graphics Resource Listing : WEEKLY POSTING [ PART 2/3 ]\n===================================================\nLast Change : 27 April 1993\n\n\n14. Plotting packages\n=====================\n\nGnuplot 3.2\n-----------\n It is one of the best 2- and 3-D plotting packages, with\n online help.It\'s a command-line driven interactive function plotting utility\n for UNIX, MSDOS, Amiga, Archimedes, and VMS platforms (at least!).\n Freely distributed, it supports many terminals, plotters, and printers\n and is easily extensible to include new devices.\n It was posted to comp.sources.misc in version 3.0, plus 2 patches.\n You can practically find it everywhere (use Archie to find a site near you!).\n The comp.graphics.gnuplot newsgroup is devoted to discussion of Gnuplot.\n\nXvgr and Xmgr (ACE/gr)\n-----------------------\n Xmgr is an XY-plotting tool for UNIX workstations using\n X or OpenWindows. There is an XView version called xvgr for\n Suns. Collectively, these 2 tools are known as ACE/gr.\n Compiling xmgr requires the Motif toolkit version 1.1\n and X11R4 - xmgr will not compile under X11R3/Motif 1.0x.\n\n Check at ftp.ccalmr.ogi.edu [129.95.72.34} in\n /CCALMR/pub/acegr/xmgr-2.09.tar.Z (Motif version)\n /CCALMR/pub/acegr/xvgr-2.09.tar.Z (XView version)\n\n Comments, suggestions, bug reports to Paul J Turner\n <pturner@amb4.ese.ogi.edu> (if mail fails, try pturner@ese.ogi.edu).\n Due to time constraints, replies will be few and far between.\n\nRobot\n-----\n Release 0.45 : 2-D and limited 3-D. Based on XView 3, written\n in C / Fortran (so you need a Fortran compiler or the f2c translator).\n Mainly tested on Sun4, less on DECstations. Check at\n ftp.astro.psu.edu (128.118.147.28), pub/astrod.\n\nVG plotting library\n-------------------\n This is a library of Fortran callable routines at sunspot.ceee.nist.gov\n [129.6.64.151]\n\nXgobi\n-----\n It\'s being developed at Bellcore, and its speciality are\n multidimensional data sets analysis and exploration. You can call it\n from the S language also, and it works as an X11 client using the Athena\n widget set (or with an ASCII terminal). It\'s distributed free of charge\n from STATLIB at CMU.\n To get it via e-mail, send email to statlib@temper.stat.cmu.edu and\n in the body area of the message, put the line\n\n send xgobi from general\n\n If you want to pick it via ftp, connect to lib.stat.cmu.edu. Log in as\n "statlib" and use your e-mail address as your password. Then type\n\n cd general\n mget xgobi.*\n\n Warning: It\'s about 2 MB sources + large Postscript manual. Read the\n relevant README to decide whether you need it or not.\n\nPGPLOT\n------\n Runs on VAX/VMS and supposedly on UNIX. It\'s a set of fortran routines freely\n available (though copyrighted and requiring a nominal fee of $50 or so)\n that includes contour plots and support for various devices, including ps.\n Contact tjp@deimos.caltech.edu\n\nGGRAPH\n------\n Host shorty.cs.wisc.edu [128.105.2.8] : /pub/ggraph.tar.Z\n Unknown more details.\n\nepiGRAPH\n--------\n For PCs. Call dvj@lab2.phys.lgu.spb.su (Vladimir J. Dmitriev) for details.\n You can get the program demo or (and) play version, if sent 10 $ to\n\n 1251 Budapest posta fiok 60\n Hungary\n ph/fax 1753696 Budapest\n ph 2017760\n\nMultiplot XLN\n-------------\n For Amigas, shareware ($30 USD, #20 UK or $40 Aust.). Advanced 2D package\n that has a big list of features. Contact:\n\n Dr. Alan Baxter <agb16@mbuc.bio.cam.ac.uk>,\n Cambridge University\n Department of Pathology,\n Tennis Court Road,\n Cambridge CB2 1QP, UK\n\n\nAthena Plotter Widget set\n-------------------------\n \n This version V6.0 is based on Gregory Bond\'s version V5-beta. Added\n some stuff for scientific graphs, i.e. log axes, free scalable axes,\n XY-lineplots and some more, and re-added plotter callbacks from V4, e.g.\n to request the current pointer position, or to cut off a rectangle from the\n plotting area for zooming-in. Version V6.0 has a log of bugs fixed and a\n log of improvements against V6-beta. Additionally I did some other\n changes/extensions, besides \n \n - Origin and frame lines for axes.\n - Subgrid lines on subtic positions.\n - Line plots in different line types (lines, points, lines+points,\n impulses, lines+impulses, steps, bars), line styles (solid, dotted,\n dashed, dot-dashed) and marker types for data points.\n - Legend at the right or left hand side of the plot.\n - Optional drawing to a pixmap instead of a window.\n - Layout callback for aligning axis positions when using\n multiple plotters in one application.\n \n Available at export.lcs.mit.edu, directory contrib/plotter\n\nSciPlot\n-------\n SciPlot is a scientific 2D plotting and manipulation program. \n For the NeXT (requires NeXTStep 3.0), and it\'s shareware.\n\n Features:\n ASCII import and export; EPS export; copy, cut, paste with data buffer;\n free number of data points, data buffer, and document window;\n selective open and save ; plotting in many styles; automatic legend;\n subviews; linear and logarithmic axes; two different axes; text and graphic;\n color support; zoom; normalizing and moving; axis conversions;\n free hand data manipulations (cut, edit, move, etc.); data editor; sorting\n of data; absolute,relative, and free defined error bars;\n calculating with buffers (+, -, *, / ); background subtractions\n (linear,shirley,tougaard, bezier); integration and relative integration;\n fitting of one or more free defined functions; linear regression;\n calculations (+, -, *, /, sin, cos, log, etc.); function generator;\n spline interpolation; least square smooth and FFT smooth; differentiation;\n FFT; ESCA calculations and database; .. and something more \n\n You can find it on:\n ftp.cs.tu-berlin.de [130.149.17.7] : /pub/NeXT/science/SciPlot3.1.tar.Z\n\n Author:\n Michael Wesemann\n Scillerstr. 73,1000 Berlin 12, Germany \n mike@fiasko.rz-berlin.mpg.de\n\nPLPLOT\n------\n PLPLOT is a scientific plotting package for many systems, small (micro)\n and large (super) alike. Despite its small size and quickness,\n it has enough power to satisfy most users, including:\n standard x-y plots, semilog plots, log-log plots, contour plots, 3D plots,\n mesh plots, bar charts and pie charts. Multiple graphs (of the same or\n different sizes) may be placed on a single page with multiple lines in each\n graph. Different line styles, widths and colors are supported. A virtually\n infinite number of distinct area fill patterns may be used. There are\n almost 1000 characters in the extended character set. This includes four\n different fonts, the Greek alphabet and a host of mathematical, musical, and\n other symbols. The fonts can be scaled to any size for various effects.\n Many different output device drivers are available (system dependent),\n including a portable metafile format and renderer.\n \n Freely available (but copyrighted) via anonymous FTP on\n hagar.ph.utexas.edu, directory pub/plplot\n \n At present (v. 4.13), PLPLOT is known to work on the following systems:\n \n Unix: SunOS, A/IX, HP-UX, Unicos, DG/UX, Ultrix\n Other platforms: VMS, Amiga/Exec, MS-DOS, OS/2, NeXT\n \n Authors: Many. The main supporters are:\n \n Maurice LeBrun <mjl@fusion.ph.utexas.edu>: PLPLOT kernel and the metafile,\n xterm, xwindow, tektronix, and Amiga drivers.\n Geoff Furnish <furnish@fusion.ph.utexas.edu>: MS-DOS and OS/2 drivers\n Tony Richardson <amr@egr.duke.edu>: PLPLOT on the NeXT\n\nSuperMongo\n----------\n 2-D plotting package at CMU, filename ~re00/tmp/SM.2.1.0.tar.Z\n (probably under the ftp.cmu.edu or andrew.cmu.edu machines?)\n\nGLE\n---\n GLE is a high quality graphics package for scientists. It runs on a\n variety of platforms (PCs, VAXes, and Unix) with drivers for XWindows,\n REGIS, TEK4010, PC graphics cards, VT100s, HP plotters, Postscript\n printers, Epson-compatible printers and Laserjet/Paintjet printers. It\n provides LaTEX quality fonts, as well as full support for Postscript\n fonts. The graphing module provides full control over all features of\n graphs. The graphics primitives include user-defined subroutines for\n complex pictures and diagrams.\n\n Accompanying utilities include Surface (for hidden line surface\n plotting), Contour (for contour plots), Manip (for manipulation of\n columnar data files), and Fitls (for fitting arbitrary equations to\n data).\n\n+ Available via anon. FTP at these places:\n+\n+ PC gle: SIMTEL, wuarchive.wustl.edu, and other mirrors, msdos/graphics/gle*.*\n+ UNIX gle: zephyr.grace.cri.nz (131.203.1.5), pub/gle/unix\n+ VMS gle: zephyr.grace.cri.nz (131.203.1.5), pub/gle/vms\n\n Mailing list: GLEList. Send a message to\n\n listserver@tbone.biol.scarolina.edu, with a message boyd containing\n\n sub glelist "Your Name"\n \n maintainer: Dean Pentcheff <dean2@tbone.biol.scarolina.edu>\n\n==========================================================================\n\n15. Image analysis software - Image processing and display\n==========================================================\n\nPC and Mac-based tools (multi-platform software)\n======================\n\nIMDISP\n------\n IMDISP Written at JPL and other NASA sites. Can do simple display,\n enhancing, smoothing and so on. Works with the FITS and VICAR/PDS\n data formats of NASA. Can read TIFF images, if you know their dimensions\n [PC and Macs]\n\nLabVIEW 2\n---------\n LabVIEW is used as a framework for image processing tools. It provides a\n graphical programming environment using block diagram sketch is the\n "program" with graphical elements representing the programming elements.\n Hundreds of functions are already available and are connected using a\n wiring tool to create the block diagram (program). Functions that the\n block diagrams represent include digital signal processing and\n filtering, numerical analysis, statistics, etc. The tool allows any\n Virtual Instrument (VI, a software file that looks and acts like a real\n laboratory instrument) to be used as a part of any other virtual\n instrument.\n\n National Instruments markets plug-in digital signal processing (DSP)\n boards for Macintoshs and PC compatables that allow real-time\n acquisition and analysis at a personal computer. New software tools for\n DSP are allowing engineers to harness the power of this technology. The\n tools range from low-level debugging software to high-level block\n diagram development software. There are three levels of DSP programming\n associated with the NB-DSP2300 board and LabVIEW:\n Use of the NB-DSP2300 Analysis Library: FFTs, power spectra, filters\n routines callable from THINK C and Macintosh Programers Workshop (MPW) C\n that execute on the NB-DSP2300 board. There is an analysis Virtual\n Interface Library of ready-to-use VIs optimized for the NB-DSP2300.\n\n Use of the National Instruments Developers Toolkit that includes an\n optimizing C compiler, an assembler and a linker for low-level\n programming of the DSP hardware. This approach offers the highest level\n of performance but is the must difficult in terms of ease of use.\n\n Use of the National Instruments Interface Kit software package which has\n utility functions for memory management data communications and\n downloading code to the NB-DSP2300 board. (This is the easiest route for\n the development of custom code.)\n\nUltimage Concept VI\n-------------------\n Concept VI by Graftek-France is a family of image processing Virtual\n Instruments (VIs) that give LabVIEW 2 (described above) users high-end\n tools for designing, integrating and monitoring imaging control systems.\n A VI is a software file that looks and acts like a real laboratory\n instrument. Typical applications for Concept VI include thermography,\n surveillance, machine vision, production testing, biomedical imaging,\n electronic microscopy and remote sensing.\n\n Ultimage Concept VI addresses applications which require further\n qualitative and quantitative analysis. It includes a complete set of\n functions for image enhancement, histogram equalization, spatial and\n frequency filtering, isolation of features, thresholding, mathematical\n morphology analysis, density measurement, object counting, sizing and\n characterization.\n\n The program loads images with a minimum resolution of 64 by 64, a pixel\n depth of 8, 16, or 32 bits, and one image plane. Standard input and\n output formats include PICT, TIFF, SATIE, and AIPD. Other formats can\n be imported.\n\n Image enhancement features include lookup table transformations, spatial\n linear and non-linear filters, frequency filtering, arithmetic and logic\n operations, and geometric transformations, among others. Morphological\n transformations include erosion, dilation, opening, closing, hole\n removal, object separation, and extraction of skeletons, among others.\n Quantitative analysis provides for objects\' detection, measurement, and\n morphological distribution. Measures include area, perimeter, center of\n gravity, moment of inertia, orientation, length of relevant chords, and\n shape factors and equivalence. Measures are saved in ASCII format. The\n program also provides for macro scripting and integration of custom\n modules.\n\n A 3-D view command plots a perspective data graph where image intensity\n is depicted as mountains or valleys in the plot. The histogram tool can\n be plotted with either a linear or logarithmic scale. The twenty-eight\n arithmetic and logical operations provide for: masking and averaging\n sections of images, noise removal, making comparisons, etc. There are\n 13 spatial filters that alter pixel intensities based on local\n intensity. These include high-pass filters for contrast and outlines.\n The frequency data resulting from FFT analysis can be displayed as\n either the (real , imaginary ) components or the (phase, magnitude)\n data. The morphological transformations are useful for data sharpening\n and defining objects or for removing artifacts.\n\n The transformations include: thresholding, eroding, dilating and even\n hole filling.\n\n The program\'s quantitative analysis measurements include: area,\n perimeter, center of mass, object counts, and angle between points.\n\n GTFS, Inc. 2455 Bennett Valley Road #100C Santa Rosa, CA 95494\n 707-579-1733\n\nIPLab Spectrum\n--------------\n IPLAB Spectrum supports image processing and analysis but lacks the\n morphology and quantitative analysis features provided by\n Graftek-FranceUs Ultimage Concept VI. Using scripting tools, the user\n tells the system the operations to be performed. The problem is that far\n too many basic operations require manual intervention. The tool\n supports: FFTs, 16 arithmetic operations for pixel alteration, and a\n movie command for cycling through windows.\n\n\nMacintosh-based tools\n=====================\n\nNCSA Image, NCSA PalEdit and more\n---------------------------------\n NCSA provides a whole suite of public-domain visualization tools for the\n Macintosh, primarily aimed at researchers wanting to visualize results\n from numerical modelling calculations. These applications,\n documentation, and source code are available for anonymous ftp from\n ftp.ncsa.uiuc.edu. Commercial versions of the NCSA programs have been\n developed by Spyglass.\n\n Spyglass, Inc. 701 Devonshire Drive Champaign, IL 61820 (217) 355-6000\n fax: 217 355 8925\n\nNIH IMAGE\n---------\n Available at alw.nih.gov (128.231.128.7) or (preferably)\n zippy.nimh.nih.gov [128.231.98.32], directory:/pub/image.\n It has painting and image manipulation tools, a macro language,\n tools for measuring areas, distances and angles, and for counting\n things. Using a frame grabber card, it can record sequences of\n images to be played back as a movie. It can invoke user-defined\n convolution matrix filters, such as Gaussian. It can import raw\n data in tab-delimited ASCII, or as 1 or 2-byte quantities. It also\n does histograms and even 3-D plots. It is limited to 8-bits/pixel,\n though the 8 bits map into a color lookup table. It runs on any Mac\n that has a 256-color screen and a FPU (or get the NonFPU version\n from zippy.nimh.nih.gov)\n\nPhotoMac\n--------\n Data Translation, Inc. 100 Locke Dr. Marlboro, MA 01752 508-481-3700\n\nPhotoPress\n----------\n Blue Solutions 3039 Marigold Place Thousand Oaks, CA 91360 805-492-9973\n\nPixelTools and TCL-Image\n------------------------\n "Complete family of PixelTools (hardware accelerator and applications\n software) for scientific image processing and analysis. Video-rate\n capture, display, processing, and analysis of high-resolution\n monochromatic and color images. Includes C source code."\n\nTCL-Image:\n "Software package for scientific, quantitative image processing and\n analysis. It provides a complete language for the capture, enhancement,\n and extraction of quantitative information from gray-scale images.\n TCL_Image has over 200 functions for image processing, and contains the\n other elements needed in a full programming language for algorithm\n development -- variables and control structures. It is easily\n extensible through "script" (or indirect command) files. These script\n files are simply text files that contain TCL-Image commands. They are\n executed as normal commands and include the ability to pass parameters.\n The direct capture of video images is supported via popular frame\n grabber boards. TCL-Image comes with the I-View utility that provides\n conversion between common image file types, such as PICT2 and TIFF."\n\n Perceptics 725 Pellissippi Parkway Knoxville, TN 37933 615-966-9200\n\nSatellite Image Workshop\n------------------------\n It comes with a number of satellite pictures (raw data) and does all\n sorts of image enhancing on it. You\'ll need at least a Mac II with co-\n processor; a 256 color display and a large harddisk. The program doesn\'t\n run under system 7.x.ATE1 V1\n\n In the documentation the contact address is given as: Liz Smith, Jet\n Propulsion Laboratory, MS 300-323, 4800 Oak Grove Dr,.Pasadena, CA 91109\n (818) 354-6980\n\nVisualization Workbench\n-----------------------\n "An electronic imaging software system that performs interactive image\n analysis and scientific 2D and 3D plotting."\n\n Paragon Imagine 171 Lincoln St. Lowell, MA 01852 508-441-2112\n\nAdobe Photoshop\n---------------\n\n The tool supports Rtrue colorS with 24-bit images or 256 levels of grey\n scale. Once an image has been imported it can be Rre-touchedS with\n various editing tools typical of those used in Macintosh-based RpaintS\n applications. These include an eraser, pencil, brush and air brush.\n Advanced RpasteS tools that control the interaction between a pasted\n selection and the receiving site have also been incorporated. For\n example, all red pixels in a selection can easily be preventing from\n being pasted. Photoshop has transparencies ranging from 0 to 100%,\n allowing you to create ghost overlays. RPhoto-editingS tools include\n control of the brightness and contrast, color balancing, hue/saturation\n modification and spectrum equalization. Images can be subjected to\n various signal processing algorithms to smooth or sharpen the image,\n blur edges, or locate edges. Image scaling is also supported.\n\n For storage savings, the images can be compressed using standard\n algorithms, including externally supplied compression such as JPEG,\n availlable from Storm Technologies. The latest version of Adobe\n Photoshop supports the import of numerous image formats including: EPSF,\n EPSF, TIFF, PICT resource, Amiga IFF/ILBM, CompuServe GIF, MacPaint,\n PIXAR, PixelPaint, Scitex CT, TGA and ThunderScan..\n\n Adobe Systems, Inc. 1585 Charlestown Road PO Box 7900 Mountain View, CA\n 94039-7900 415-961-4400\n\nColorStudio and ImageStudio\n---------------------------\n ColorStudio is an image-editing and paint package from Letraset that has\n more features than Adobe Photoshop but is decidedly more complex and\n therefore more difficult to use. Several steps are often required to\n accomplish that which can be done in a single step using Photoshop. The\n application requires a great deal of available disk space as one can\n easily end up with images in the 30 MB range. The program provides a\n variety of powerful selection tools including the "auto selection tool"\n which lets the user choose image areas on the basis of color, close\n hues, color range and mask.\n\nImageStudio: Don\'t know...\n\n Letraset USA 40 Eisenhower Drive Paramus, NJ 07653 201-845-6100\n\nDapple Systems\n--------------\n "High resolution image analysis software provides processing tools to\n work with multiple images, enhance and edit, and measure a variety of\n global or feature parameters, and interpret the data."\n\n Dapple Systems, 355 W. Olive Ave, #100 Sunnyvale, CA 94086 408-733-3283\n\nDigital Darkroom\n----------------\n The latest release of Digital Darkroom has five new selection and\n editing tools for enhancing images. One such feature allows the user to\n select part of an image simply by "painting" it. A new polyline\n selection tool creates a selection tool for single pixel wide\n selections. A brush lets the operator "paint" with a selected portion\n of the image. Note that this is not a true color image enhancement tool.\n This tool should be used when the user intends to operate in grey-scale\n images only. It should be noted that Digital Darkroom is not as\n powerful as either Adobe Photoshop or ColorStudio.\n\n Silicon Beach Software 9770 Carroll Ctr. Rd., Suite J San Diego, CA\n 92126 619-695-6956\n\nDimple\n------\n It is compatible with system 6.05 and system 7.0 , requires Mac LC or\n II series with 256 colours, with a recommended min of 6Mb of ram. It has\n the capability of reading Erdas files. Functions include; image\n enhancement, 3D and contour plots, image statistics, supervised and\n unsupervised classification, PCA and other image transformations. There\n is also a means (Image Operation Language or IOL) by which you can write\n your own transformations. There is no image rectification, however\n Dimple is compatable with MAPII. The latest version is 1.4 and it is in\n the beta stage of testing. Dimple was initially developed as a teaching\n tool and it is very good for this purpose."\n\n "Dimple runs on a colour Macintosh. It is a product still in its\n development phase.. i.e. it doesn\'t have all the inbuilt features of\n other packages, but is coming along nicely. It has its own inbuilt\n language for writing "programs" for processing an image, defining\n convolution filters etc. Dimple is a full mac application with pull down\n menus etc... It is unprotected software."\n\n Process Software Solutions, PO Box 2110, Wollongong, New South Wales,\n Australia. 2500. Phone 61 42 261757 Fax 61 42 264190.\n\nEnhance\n-------\n Enhance has a RrulerS tool that supports measurements and additionally\n provides angle data. The tool has over 80 mathematical filter\n variations: "Laplacian, medium noise filter", etc. Files can be saved\n as either TIFF, PICT, EPSF or text (however EPSF files can\'t be imported).\n\n MicroFrontier 7650 Hickman Road Des Moines, IA 50322 515-270-8109\n\nImage Analyst\n-------------\n An image processing product for users who need to extract quantitative\n data from video images. Image Analyst lets users configure\n sophisticated image processing and measurement routines without the\n necessity of knowing a programming language. It is designed for such\n tasks at computing number and size of cells in images projected by video\n cameras attached to microscopes, or enhancing and measuring distances in\n radiographs.\n\n Image Analyst provides users with an array of field-proven video\n analysis techniques that enable them to easily assemble a sequence of\n instructions to enhance feature appearance; count objects; determine\n density, shape, size, position, or movement; perform object feature\n extraction; and conduct textural analysis automatically. Image Analyst\n works with either a framegrabber board and any standard video camera, or\n a disk-stored image.\n\n Within minutes, without the need for programming, the Image Analyst user\n can set up a process to identify and analyze any element of a image.\n Measurements and statistics can be automatically or semi-automatically\n generated from TIFF or PICT files or from captured video tape images.\n Image Analyst recognizes items in images based on their size, shape and\n position. The tool provides direct support for the Data Translation and\n Scion frame grabbers. A menu command allows for image capture from a VCR\n video camera or other NTSC or PAL devices.\n\n There are 2 types of files, the image itself and the related Sequence\n file that holds the processing, measurements and analysis that the user\n defines. Automated sequences are set up in Regions Of Interest (ROI)\n represented by movable, sizable boxes atop the image. Inside a ROI, the\n program can find the distance between two edges, the area of a shape,\n the thickness of a wall, etc. Image Analyst finds the center, edge and\n other positions automatically. The application also provides tools so\n that the user can work interactively to find the edge of object. It also\n supports histograms and a color look-up table (CLUT) tool.\n\n Automatix, Inc. 775 Middlesex Turnpike Billerica, MA 01821 508-667-7900\n\nIPLab\n-----\n Signal Analytics Corp. 374 Maple Ave. E Vienna, VA 22180 703-281-3277\n FAX 703-281-2509\n\n "Menu-driven image processing software that supports 24-bit color or\n pseudocolor/grayscale image display and manipulation."\n\nMAP II\n------\n Among the Mac GIS systems, MAP II distributed by John Wiley has\n integrated image analysis.\n\nIMAGE\n-----\n from Stanford : Try anonymous ftp from sumex-aim.stanford.edu\n It has pd source for image v2, and ready to run code for a mac under\n image v3.\n\n\n\nWindows/DOS PC-based tools\n==========================\n\nCCD\n---\n Richard Berry\'s CCD imaging book for Willamon-Bell contains (optional?)\n disks with image manipulating software. Source code is included.\n\nERDAS\n-----\n "ERDAS will do all of the things you want: rectification,\n classification, transformations (canned & user-defined), overlays,\n filters, contrast enhancement, etc. ... I was using it on my thesis &\n then changed the topic a bit & that work became secondary."\n\n ERDAS, Inc. 2801 Buford Highway Suite 300 Atlanta, GA 30329 404-248-9000\n FAX 404-248-9400\n\nRSVGA\n-----\n "I have been getting up to speed on a program called RSVGA available from\n Eidetic Digital Image Ltd. in British Columbia. Its for IBM PC\'s or\n clones, cheap (about $400) and does all the stuff Erdas does but is not\n as fast or as powerful, though I have had only limited experience with\n Erdas. I have used RSVGA with 6 of 7 Landsat bands and it is a good\n starter program except for the obtuse manual"\n\nIMAGINE-32\n----------\n It\'s a 32 bit package [I suppose for PCs] called "Imagine32"\n or "Image32" The program does a modest amount of image processing --add,\n subtract, multiply, divide, display, and plot an x or y cut across the image.\n It can also display a number of images simultaneously.\n The company is CompuScope, in Santa Barbara, CA. \n\nPC Vista\n--------\n It was announced in the 1989 August edition of PASP. It is known to\n be available from Mike Richmond, whose email addresses have been\n\n\trichmond@bllac.berkeley.edu\n\trichmond@bkyast.berkeley.edu\n\n and his s-mail address is:\n\n Michael Richmond,Astronomy Department, Campbell Hall, Berkeley, CA 94720\n\n The latest version of PC-Vista, version 1.7, includes not only the source\n code and help files, but also a complete set of executable programs and\n a number of sample FITS images. If you do wish to use the source code,\n you will need Microsoft C, version 5.0 or later; other compilers may work,\n but will require substantial modifications.\n\n To receive the documentation and nine double-density (360K) floppies\n (or three quad-density 3-1/2 inch floppies (1.44M) with everything on them,\n just send a request for PC-Vista, together with your name and a US-Mail\n address, to \n\n\tOffice of Technology Licensing\n\t2150 Shattuck Ave., Suite 510\n\tBerkeley, Ca. 94704\n\n Include a check (Traveller\'s Checks are fine) or purchase order for $150.00\n in U.S. dollars, if your address is inside the continental U.S., or $165.00\n otherwise, made out to Regents of the University of California\n to cover duplication and mailing costs.\n\n\nSOFTWARE TOOLS\n--------------\n It\'s a set of software "tools" put out by Canyon State\n Systems and Software. They are not free, but rather cheap at about $30 I\n heard. It will handle most all of the formats used by frame grabber\n software. \n\nMIRAGE\n------\n It\'s image processing software written by Jim Gunn at the\n Astrophysics Dept at Princeton. It will run on a PC among other platforms.\n It is a Forth based system - i.e. a Forth language with many image\n processing displaying functions built in. \n\nDATA TRANSLATION SOURCE BOOK\n----------------------------\n The Data Translation company in Massachusetts publishes a free book\n containing vendors of data analysis hardware and software which is\n compatible with Data Translation and other frame grabbers.\n Surely you can find much more PC-related stuff in it.\n\nMAXEN386\n--------\n A couple of Canadians have written a program named MAXEN386 which does\n maximum entropy image deconvolution. Their company is named Digital\n Signal Processing Software, or something like that, and the software is\n mentioned in an article in Astronomy Magazine, either Jan or Feb 92\n (an article on CCD\'s vs film). \n\nJANDEL SCIENTIFIC (JAVA)\n------------------------\n Another software package (JAVA) is put out by Jandel Scientific. \n Jandel Scientific, 65 Koch Road, Corte Madera, CA 94925, (415) 924-8640,\n (800) 874-1888.\n\nMicrobrian\n----------\n Runs on an MS dos platform and uses a 32 bit graphics card\n (Vista), or an about to be released version will support a number of\n super VGA cards. Its a full blown remote sensed data processing\n system.. It is menu driven (character based screen), but is does not use\n a windowed user interface. Its is hardware protected with a dongle.\n Mbrian = micro Barrier reef Image Anaysis System. It was developed by\n CSIRO (Commonwealth Scientific & Industrial Organization) and is\n marketed/ supported by:\n\n MPA Australia (51 Lusher Road, Croydon, Victoria\n tel + 61 3 724 4488 fax +61 3 724 4455)\n\n There are educational and commercial prices, but be prepared to set\n aside $A10k for the first educational licence. Subsequent ones come\n cheaper (they need to!) It has installed sites worldwide. It is widely\n used at ANU.\n\nMicroImage\n----------\n The remote sensing lab here at Dartmouth currently uses Terra-Mar\'s\n MicroImage, on 486 PCs with some fancy display hardware.\n\n Terra-Mar Resource Information Services, Inc.\n\n 1937 Landings Drive Mountain View, CA 94043 415-964-6900 FAX\n 415-964-5430\n\nUnix-based tools\n================\n\nIRAF (Image Reduction and Analysis Facility)\n--------------------------------------------\n Developed in the National Optical Astronomy Observatory, Kitt Peak AZ\n It is free, you can ftp it from tucana.noao.edu [140.252.1.1]\n and complement it with STSDAS from stsci.edu [130.167.1.2].\n Email to iraf@noao.edu for more details.\n Apparently this is one of the _de facto_ standards in the astronomical\n image community. They issue a newsletter also.\n They seem to support very well their users. Works with VMS also last\n I heard, and practically has its own shell on top of the VMS/Unix shells.\n\n It\'s suggested that you get a copy of saoimage for display under X windows.\n Very flexible/extendable -- tons (literally 3 linear feet) of\n documentation for the general user, skilled user, and programmer.\n\nALV\n---\n A Sun-specific image toolkit. Version 2.0.6 posted to\n comp.sources.sun on 11dec89. Also available via email to\n alv-users-request@cs.bris.ac.uk.\n\nAIPS\n----\n Astronomical Image Processing System. Contact: aipsmail@nrao.edu\n (also see the UseNet Newsgroups alt.sci.astro.aips and sci.astro.fits)\n Built by NRAO (National Radio Astronomy Observatory, HQ in Charlottesville,\n VA, sites in NM, AZ, WV). Software distributed by 9-track, Exabyte, DAT,\n or (non-anonymous) internet ftp. Documentation (PostScript mostly)\n available via anonymous ftp to baboon.cv.nrao.edu (192.33.115.103),\n directory pub/aips and pub/aips/TEXT/PUBL. Installation requires building\n the system and thus a Fortran and C compiler.\n This package can read and write FITS data (see sci.astro.fits), and is\n primarily for reduction, analysis, and image enhancement of Radio Astronomy\n data from radio telescopes, particularly the Very Large Array (VLA), a\n synthesis instrument. It consists of almost 300 programs that do everything\n from copying data to sophisticated deconvolution, e.g. via maximum entropy.\n There is an X11-based Image tool (XAS) and a tek-compatible xterm-based\n graphics tool built into AIPS. The XAS tool is modelled after the hardware\n functionality of the International Imaging Systems model 70 display unit and\n can do image arithmetic, etc.\n The code is mostly Fortran 77 with some system C language modules, and is\n available for Suns, IBM RS/6000, Dec/Ultrix, Convex, Cray (Unicos), and\n Alliant with support planned for HP-9000/7xx, Solaris 2.1, and maybe SGI.\n There is currently a project - "AIPS++" - underway to rewrite the\n algorithmic functionality of AIPS in a modern setting, using C++ and an\n object oriented approach. Whereas AIPS is proprietary code (licensed for\n free to non-profit institutions) owner by NRAO and the NSF, AIPS++ will be\n in the public domain at some level, as it is an international effort with\n contributions from the US, Canada, England, the Netherlands, India, and\n Australia to name a few. \n\nLABOimage\n---------\n (version 4.0 is out for X11) It\'s written in C, and currently\n runs on Sun 3/xxx, Sun 4/xxx (OS3.5, 4.0 and 4.0.3) under SunView.\n The expert system for image segmentation is written in Allegro Common Lisp.\n It was used on the following domains: computer science (image analysis), \n medicine, biology, physics. It is distributed free of charge (source code).\n Available via anonymous FTP at ftp.ads.com (128.229.30.16), in\n pub/VISION-LIST-ARCHIVE/SHAREWARE/LaboImage_*\n\n Contact: Prof. Thierry Pun, Computer Vision Group Computing Science Center,\n U-Geneva 12, rue du Lac, CH-1207 Geneva SWITZERLAND\n Phone : +41(22) 787 65 82; fax: +41(22) 735 39 05\n E-mail: pun@cui.unige.ch or pun@cgeuge51.bitnet\n\n\nFigaro\n------\n It was originally made for VMS, and can be obtained from\n Keith Shortridge in Australia (ks@aaoepp.aao.gov.au)\n and for Unix from Sam Southard at Caltech (sns@deimos.caltech.edu).\n It\'s about 110Mbytes on a Sun.\n\nKHOROS\n------\n Moved to the Scientific Visualization category below\n\nVista\n-----\n The "real thing" is available via anonymous ftp from lowell.edu. Email to\n vista@lowell.edu for more details. Total size less than 20Mbytes.\n\nDISIMP\n------\n (Device Independent Software for Image Processing) is a powerful\n system providing both user friendliness and high functionality in\n interactive times.\n\n Feature Description\n\n DISIMP incorporates a rich library of image processing utilities and\n spatial data options. All functions can be easily accessed via the\n DISIMP executive. This menu is modular in design and groups image\n processes by their function. Such a logical structure means that\n complicated processes are simply a progression through a series of\n modules.\n\n Processes include image rectification, classification (unsupervised and\n supervised), intensity transformations, three dimensional display and\n Principal Component Analysis. DISIMP also supports the more simple and\n effective enhancement techniques of filtering, band subtraction and\n ratioing.\n\n Host Configuration Requirements\n\n Running on UNIX workstations, DISIMP is capable of processing the more\n computational intensive techniques in interactive processing times.\n DISIMP is available in both Runtime and Programmer\'s environments. Using\n the Programmers environment, utilities can be developed for specific\n applications programs.\n\n Graphics are governed by an icon-based Display Panel which allows quick\n enhancments of a displayed image. Manipulations of Look Up Tables,\n colour stretches, changes to histograms, zooming and panning can be\n interactively driven through this control.\n\n A range of geographic projections enables DISIMP to integrate data of\n image, graphic and textual types. Images can be rectified by a number of\n coordinate systems, providing the true geographic knowledge essential\n for ground truthing. Overlays of grids, text and vector data can be\n added to further enhance referenced imagery.\n\n The system is a flexible package allowing users of various skill levels\n to determine their own working environment, including the amount of help\n required. DISIMP comes fully configured with no optional extras. The\n purchase price includes all functionality required for professional\n processing of remote sensed data.\n\n For further information, please contact:\n\n The Business Manager, CLOUGH Engineering Group Systems Division, 627\n Chapel Street, South Yarra, Australia 3141. Telephone: +61 3 825 5555\n Fax: +61 3 826 6463\n\nGlobal Imaging Software\n-----------------------\n "We use Global Imaging Software to process AVHRR data, from the dish to\n the final display. Select a chunk of five band data from a pass,\n automatic navigation, calibrate it to Albedo and Temp, convert that to\n byte, register it to predesigned window, all relatively automatically\n and carefree.\n\n It has no classification routines to speak of, but it isn\'t that\n difficult to write your own with their programmer\'s module.\n\n Very small operation: one designs, one codes, one sells. Been around for\n a number of years, sold to Weather Service and Navy. Runs on HP9000\n with HP-UX. Supports 24-bit display"\n\nHIPS\n----\n(Human Information Processing Laboratory\'s Image Processing System)\n\n Michael Landy co-wrote and sell a general-purpose package for image\n processing which has been used for basically all the usual image\n processing applications (robotics, medical, satellite, engineering, oil\n exploration, etc.). It is called HIPS, and deals with sequences of\n multiband images in the same way it deals with single images. It has\n been growing since we first wrote it, both by additions from us as well\n as a huge user-contributed library.\n\n Feature description\n\n HIPS is a set of image processing modules which together provide\n a powerful suite of tools for those interested in research,\n system development and teaching. It handles sequences of images\n (movies) in precisely the same manner as single frames.\n\n Programs and subroutines have been developed for simple image\n transformations, filtering, convolution, Fourier and other transform\n processing, edge detection and line drawing manipulation, digital\n image compression and transmission methods, noise generation, and image\n statistics computation. Over 150 such image transformation programs\n have been developed. As a result, almost any image processing task\n can be performed quickly and conveniently. Additionally, HIPS allows\n users to easily integrate their own custom routines. New users\n become effective using HIPS on their first day.\n\n HIPS features images that are self-documenting. Each image stored in\n the system contains a history of the transformations that have been\n applied to that image. HIPS includes a small set of subroutines\n which primarily deals with a standardized image sequence header, and\n a large library of image transformation tools in the form of UNIX\n ``filters\'\'. It comes complete with source code, on-line manual\n pages, and on-line documentation.\n\n Host Configuration Requirements\n\n Originally developed at New York University, HIPS now represents\n one of the most extensive and flexible vision and image processing\n environments currently available. It runs under the UNIX operating\n system. It is modular and flexible, provides automatic documentation\n of its actions, and is almost entirely independent of special equipment.\n HIPS is now in use on a variety of computers including Vax and\n Microvax, Sun, Apollo, Masscomp, NCR Tower, Iris, IBM AT, etc.\n For image display and input, drivers are supplied for the Grinnell and\n Adage (Ikonas) image processors, and the Sun-2, Sun-3, Sun- 4, and\n Sun-386i consoles. We also supply user-contributed drivers for a\n number of other framestores and windowing packages (Sun gfx, Sun\n console, Matrox VIP-1024, ITI IP-512, Lexidata, Macintosh II, X\n windowing system, and Iris). The Hipsaddon package includes an\n interface for the CRS-4000. It is a simple matter to interface HIPS\n with other frame- stores, and we can put interested users in touch with\n users who have interfaced HIPS with the Arlunya and Datacube Max-\n Video. HIPS can be easily adapted for other image display devices\n because 98% of HIPS is machine independent.\n\n Availability\n\n HIPS has proven itself a highly flexible system, both as an\n interactive research tool, and for more production- oriented tasks. It\n is both easy to use, and quickly adapted and extended to new uses. HIPS\n is supplied on magnetic tape in UNIX tar format (either reel- to-reel or\n Sun cartridge), and comes with source code, libraries, a library of\n convolu- tion masks, and on-line documentation and manual pages.\n\n Michael Landy SharpImage Software P.O. Box 373, Prince Street Station\n New York, NY 10012-0007 Voice: (212) 998-7857 Fax: (212) 995-4011\n msl@cns.nyu.edu\n\n\nMIRA\n----\n[ Please DON\'T confuse that with the Thalmanns animation system from\n Montreal. These are altogether different beasts! - nfotis ]\n\n MIRA stands for Microcomputer Image Reduction and Analysis. MIRA gives\n workstation level performance on 386/486 DOS computers using SVGA cards in\n 256 color modes up to 1024x768. MIRA contains a very handsome/functional\n GUI which is mouse and keystroke operated. MIRA reads/writes TIFF and FITS\n formats, native formats of a number of CCD cameras, and uncompressed binary\n images in byte, short integer, and 4-byte real pixel format in 1- or 2-\n dimensions. The result of an image processing operation can be short integer\n or real pixels, or the same as that of the input image. MIRA does the\n operation using short or floating point arithmetic to maintain the precision\n and accuracy of the pixel format. Over 100 functions are hand-coded in\n assembly language for maximum speed on the Intel hardware. The entire\n graphical interface is also written in assembly language to maximize\n the speed of windowing operations. Windows for 2-d image and 1-d image/data\n display and analysis have dedicated cursors which read position and value\n value in real time as you move the mouse. There are also smooth, real time\n contrast and brightness stretch and panning of a magnified portion of\n the displayed image(s), all operated by the mouse. A wide selection of\n grayscale, pseudocolor, and random palettes is provided, and other \n palettes can be generated.\n\n\nSupported functions include such niceties as the following:\n\no image & image: + - / * interpolation\no image & constant: + - / *\no unary operations: abs value, polynomial of pixel value, chs, 1/x, log,\n byteswap, clip values at upper/lower limits, short->real or real->short.\no combine images by mean, median, mode, or sum of pixel values, with or\n without autoscaling to mean, median, or mode of an image section.\no convolutions/filters: Laplacian, Sobel edge operator, directional gradient,\n line, Gaussian, elliptical and rectangular equal weight filters, unsharp\n masking, median filters, user defined filter kernel. Ellipse, rectangle,\n line, gradient, Gaussian, and user defined filters can be rotated to\n any specified angle.\no CCD data reduction: flat fielding, dark subtraction, column over/underscan\n bias removal, remove bad pixels and column defects, normalize to\n region target mean, median, or modal value.\no create subimage, mosaic m x n 1-d or 2-d images to get larger image,\n collapse 2-d image into 1-d image.\no plot 1-d section or collapsed section of 2-d image, plot histogram of\n region of an image.\no review/change image information/header data, rename keywords, plot\n keyword values for a set of images.\no luminance/photometry: elliptical or circular aperture photometry,\n brightness profile, isophotal photometry between set of upper & lower\n luminances, area and luminance inside traced polygon. Interactive\n background fitting and removal from part or all of image, fit elliptical\n aperture shape to image isophotes. \no interactive with 2-d image: contrast/brightness, x- y- or diagonal plot\n of pixel values, distance between two points, compute region stats,`\n centroid, pan to x,y location or image center, zoom 1/16 to 10 times,\n change cursor to rectangle crosshair, full image crosshair, or off, and\n adjust cursor size on image. Select linear, log or gamma transfer function\n or histogram equalization.\no interactive or specified image offset computation and re-sampling for\n registration.\no interactive with 1-d image: zoom in x- y- or both in steps of 1/2 or\n 2 times current, re-center plot, or enlarge a framed area. 4 plot buffers\n can be cycled through. Interactive data analysis: polynomial fitting,\n point deletion, undelete, change value, point weighting, linear and\n quadratic loess and binomial smoothing, revert to unit point weights\n or original data buffer, substitute results into data buffer for pass\n back to calling function. Dump data buffer (+ overlays and error bars)\n to file or printer. Change to user specified coordinate system.\no Tricolor image combination and display, hardcopy halftone printout to\n HP-PCL compatible printers (Laserjet, deskjet, etc.)\no Documentation is over 300 pages in custom vinyl binder.\n\n Cost: 995 $USD/copy\n\n Available from:\n\n Axiom Research, Inc.\n Box 44162\n Tucson, AZ 85733\n (602) 791-2864 phone/fax.\n\n international marketing rep: Saguaro Scientific Corporation, Tucson, Arizona.\n\n==========================================================================\n\nEnd of Part 2 of the Resource Listing\n-- \nNick (Nikolaos) Fotis National Technical Univ. of Athens, Greece\nHOME: 16 Esperidon St., InterNet : nfotis@theseas.ntua.gr\n Halandri, GR - 152 32 UUCP: mcsun!ariadne!theseas!nfotis\n Athens, GREECE FAX: (+30 1) 77 84 578\n',
"From: pinn@cpqhou.se.hou.compaq.com (Steve Pinn x44304)\nSubject: Re: REQUEST: Gyro (souvlaki) sauce\nOrganization: Compaq Computer Corp.\nDistribution: usa\nX-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]\nLines: 32\n\nMichael Trofimoff (tron@fafnir.la.locus.com) wrote:\n\n: Hi All,\n\n: Would anyone out there in 'net-land' happen to have an\n: authentic, sure-fire way of making this great sauce that\n: is used to adorn Gyro's and Souvlaki?\n\n: Thanks,\n\nI have a receipe at home that was posted to me by one of our fellow\nnetters about a month ago. I am recalling this from memory but\nI think I'm fairly close (by the way it was GREAT!)\n\n1 \tpint of plain yogurt \n1/2\tmed. sized cucumber finely shredded\n3\tcloves of garlic (more or less by taste)\n1/4 tsp\tdill weed\n\nThe yogurt is dumped into a strainer lined with a coffee\nfilter and allowed to drain at least 2 hours (you can\nadjust the consistancy of the sauce by increasing this time\nup to 24 hours)\n\nThe shredded cuc is drained the same way\n\nMix it all together and let it steep for at least\n2 hours (it's better the next day) and enjoy!\n\nSteve\n\n\n",
"From: thinman@netcom.com (Technically Sweet)\nSubject: Re: Universal VESA Driver\nKeywords: VESA\nOrganization: International Foundation for Internal Freedom\nLines: 84\n\nkintur@scorch.apana.org.au (Kingsley Turner) writes:\n\n> Some time ago (about 1 month) there was a bit of discussion\n> about a universal VESA driver for > 8bit cards. It was in\n> the file uvesa32.zip. Well i can't find it, does anyone know\n> where it is (gorilla.something.something.au), and what sort\n> of cards it works for ?\n\n> Also would it be pushing my luck to ask for someone to post\n> it to some appropriate group.\n\n> Kingsley Turner\n> NSW Australia\n\n\nHost swdsrv.edvz.univie.ac.at\n\n Location: /pc/dos/graphics\n FILE -rw-r--r-- 21525 Mar 7 18:00 uvesa31.zip\n\nHost plaza.aarnet.edu.au\n\n Location: /micros/pc/garbo/pc/screen\n FILE -r--r--r-- 21795 Apr 4 00:00 uvesa31.zip\n Location: /micros/pc/oak/graphics\n FILE -r--r--r-- 21525 Mar 7 19:00 uvesa31.zip\n\nHost godzilla.cgl.rmit.oz.au\n\n Location: /kjb/MGL\n FILE -rw-r--r-- 22887 Mar 29 15:03 uvesa32.zip\n\nHost nic.switch.ch\n\n Location: /mirror/msdos/graphics\n FILE -rw-rw-r-- 21525 Mar 7 20:00 uvesa31.zip\n Location: /software/pc/simtel20/graphics\n FILE -rw-rw-r-- 21525 Mar 7 20:00 uvesa31.zip\n\nHost ipc1.rvs.uni-hannover.de\n\n Location: /pub/msdos-koeln/graphics/egavga\n FILE -rw-r--r-- 21525 Apr 4 17:08 uvesa31.zip\n\nHost sun0.urz.uni-heidelberg.de\n\n Location: /pub/msdos/simtel/graphics\n FILE -rw-rw-r-- 21525 Mar 7 19:00 uvesa31.zip\n\nHost athene.uni-paderborn.de\n\n Location: /pcsoft/msdos/graphics\n FILE -rw-r--r-- 21525 Mar 7 18:00 uvesa31.zip\n\nHost compute1.cc.ncsu.edu\n\n Location: /mirrors/wustl/mirrors/msdos/graphics\n FILE -rw-r--r-- 21525 Mar 7 19:00 uvesa31.zip\n\nHost rigel.acs.oakland.edu\n\n Location: /pub/msdos/graphics\n FILE -rw-r--r-- 21525 Mar 7 19:00 uvesa31.zip\n\nHost pc.usl.edu\n\n Location: /pub/msdos/video.and.graphics\n FILE -rw-r--r-- 21525 Mar 11 10:41 uvesa31.zip\n\nHost isfs.kuis.kyoto-u.ac.jp\n\n Location: /mirrors/simtel20.msdos/graphics\n FILE -rw-rw-r-- 11425 Mar 13 16:41 uvesa10.zip\n FILE -rw-rw-r-- 21525 Mar 8 12:00 uvesa31.zip\n\nHost ftp.uu.net\n\n Location: /systems/ibmpc/msdos/simtel20/graphics\n FILE -rw-rw-r-- 21525 Mar 7 14:00 uvesa31.zip\n-- \n\nLance Norskog\nthinman@netcom.com\nData is not information is not knowledge is not wisdom.\n",
"From: eledw@nuscc.nus.sg (Simon D. Wibowo)\nSubject: Quit Smoking\nOrganization: National University of Singapore\nLines: 15\n\nMy girlfriend is a smoker. She has been addicted to it for quite some time.\nShe has been tried a couple of times, but then always get back to it. Her \nbackground is non-Christian, but she's interested in Christianity. I'm a\nChristian and non-smoker.\n\nI would like to collect any personal stories from Christians who managed to \nquit. I hope that this will encourage her to keep on trying. If anybody ever \nhad a similar problem or knows a good book on it, pls reply by email. \n\nI appreciate any kinds of helps. Thanks a lot.\n\n=======================================================================\nSimon Darjadi Wibowo Telp : (65)7726863\nDept. of EE, Nat'l Univ. Of S'pore Fax : (65)7773117\nSingapore 0511 Internet : eledw@nuscc.nus.sg\n",
'From: banschbach@vms.ocom.okstate.edu\nSubject: Re: INFO: Colonics and Purification?\nLines: 68\nNntp-Posting-Host: vms.ocom.okstate.edu\nOrganization: OSU College of Osteopathic Medicine\n\nIn article <1993Apr28.023749.9259@informix.com>, hartman@informix.com (Robert Hartman) writes:\n> In article <1rjn0eINNnqn@MINERVA.CIS.YALE.EDU> wiesel-elisha@yale.edu (Elisha Wiesel) writes:\n>>Recently I\'ve come upon a body of literature which promotes colon\n>>cleansing as a vital aid to preventive medicine through nutrition. \n> \n> No doubt the sci.med* folks are getting out their flamethrowers. I\'m\n> rather certain that the information you got was not medical literature\n> in the accepted academic/scientific journals. So, the righteous among\n> them will no doubt jump on that.\n> \n> Also, insofar as it doesn\'t conform to the accepted medical presumption\n> that it just doesn\'t matter what you eat, and that we can think of the\n> GI tract as a black box in which nothing ever goes wrong (except for\n> maybe cancer and ulcers), the righteous will no doubt jump on that too.\n> \n> Then there\'ll be the ones who call your doctor a raving quack, even\n> though he, like Linus Pauling, is lucid and robust well into his\n> nineties--but nevermind about that. He shouldn\'t charge for his\n> equipment and supplies, since they\'re no doubt not approved by the\n> FDA. Of course, with FDA approval an MD or pharmaceutical company can\n> charge whatever they can get for such safe and effective treatments as\n> thalidomide. But nevermind about that either.\n> \n> Unfortunately, you dared to step into the sacred turf of Net.Medical.\n> Discussion without a credential and without understanding that the\n> righteous among them will make certain that you are suitably denounced\n> before dismissing you as a fool.\n> \n> But maybe somebody without such a huge chip on their shoulder will\n> send you some reasonable responses by e-mail.\n> \n> 1/2 ;^) \n> \n> 1/2 ;^(\n> \n> Oh yes, I did have a point. A few years ago an MD with a thriving\n> practice in a very wealthy part of Silicon Valley once recommended that\n> I take such treatments to clear up a skin condition. (Not through his\n> office, I might add.) Although I\'m sure that\'s not conclusive, it was\n> sure an unusual prescription!\n> \n\nThe bacteria in your gut are important. But colonic flushes are not the \nway to improve gut function. Each person has almost a unique mix of \nbacteria in his/her gut. Diet affects this mix as does the use of \nantibiotics. A diet change is a much better way to alter the players in \nyour gut than is colonic flushes. Cross contamination has been a real \nproblem in some of the outfits that do this "treatment" since the equipment \nis not always cleaned as well as it should be between patient "treatments".\nDental drills have me a little concerned about HIV infection and I\'ve \npicked a dentist that uses both chemical and autoclave sterilization of his \ninstruments(more clostly but much safer). Full sterile technique is \nalso used just like that practiced in an OR(mask, gloves and gowns worn and \ndisposed of between patients). Each visit costs me 15 dollars more than \nthe standard and customary fee so I have to pay it out of pocket. His much \nhigher fees do not drive away patients.\n\nI can not think of any good reason why someone should subject themselves to \nthis colonic flush procedure. For very little, if any benefit, you \nsubject yourself to hepatitis, cholera, parasitic disease and even HIV.\nJust ask yourself why someone might resort to this kind of treatment?\nCould they be having GI distress? Could this distress be due to a \npathogenic organism? Could I get this organism if the equipment is not \ncleaned properly between patients? Do I really want to take this risk?\nFood for thought.\n\nMarty B.\n\n',
'From: mls@panix.com (Michael Siemon)\nSubject: Re: homosexual issues in Christianity\nOrganization: Panix Public Access Internet & Unix, NYC\nLines: 164\n\nIn article <May.11.02.36.34.1993.28074@athos.rutgers.edu> mserv@mozart.cc.iup.edu (someone named Mark) writes:\n\n>mls@panix.com (Michael Siemon) writes:\n \n>>Homosexual Christians have indeed "checked out" these verses. Some of\n>>them are used against us only through incredibly perverse interpretations.\n>>Others simply do not address the issues.\n\n>I can see that some of the above verses do not clearly address the issues, \n\nThere are exactly ZERO verses that "clearly" address the issues.\n\n>however, a couple of them seem as though they do not require "incredibly \n>perverse interpretations" in order to be seen as condemning homosexuality.\n\nThe kind of interpretation I see as "incredibly perverse" is that applied\nto the story of Sodom as if it were a blanket equation of homosexual\nbehavior and rape. Since Christians citing the Bible in such a context\nshould be presumed to have at least READ the story, it amounts to slander\n-- a charge that homosexuality == rape -- to use that against us.\n\n>"... Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolators, nor adulterers, \n>nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, \n>nor revilers, nor swindlers, shall inherit the kingdom of God. And such were \n>some of you..." I Cor. 6:9-11.\n\nThe moderator adequately discusses the circularity of your use of _porneia_\nin this. I think we can all agree (with Paul) that there are SOME kinds of\nactivity that could be named by "fornication" or "theft" or "coveting" or\n"reviling" or "drunkenness" which would well deserve condemnation. We may\nor may not agree to the bounds of those categories, however; and the very\nfact that they are argued over suggests that not only is the matter not at\nall "clear" but that Paul -- an excellent rhetorician -- had no interest\nin MAKING them clear, leaving matters rather to our Spirit-led decisions,\nwith all the uncomfortable living-with-other-readings that has dominated\nChristian discussion of ALL these areas.\n\nHomosexual behavior is no different. I (and the other gay Christians I\nknow) are adamant in condemning rape -- heterosexual or homosexual -- and\nchild molestation -- heterosexual or homosexual -- and even the possibly\n"harmless" but obsessive kinds of sex -- heterosexual or homosexual --\nthat would stand condemned by Paul in the very continuation of the chapter\nyou cite [may I mildly suggest that what *Paul* does in his letter that\nyou want to use is perhaps a good guide to his meaning?]\n\n\t"\'I am free to do anything,\' you say. Yes, but not everything\n\tis for my good. No doubt I am free to do anything, but I for one\n\twill not let anything make free with me." [1 Cor. 6:12]\n\nWhich is a restatement that we must have no other "god" before God. A\ncommandment neither I nor any other gay Christian wishes to break. Some\npeople are indeed involved in obsessively driven modes of sexual behavior.\nIt is just as wrong (though slightly less incendiary, so it\'s a secondary\nargument from the \'phobic contingent) to equate homosexuality with such\nbehavior as to equate it with the rape of God\'s messengers.\n\nI won\'t deal with the exegesis of Leviticus, except very tangentially.\nFundamentally, you are exhibiting the same circularity here as in your\nassumption that you know what _porneia_ means. There are plenty of\nlaws prohibiting sexual behavior to be found in Leviticus, most of\nwhich Christians ignore completely. They never even BOTHER to examine\nthem. They just *assume* that they know which ones are "moral" and\nwhich ones are "ritual." Well, I have news for you. Any anthropology\ncourse should sensitize you to ritual and clean vs. unlcean as categories\nin an awful lot of societies (we have them too, but buried pretty deep).\nAnd I cannot see any ground for distinguishing these bits of Leviticus\nfrom the "ritual law" which NO Christian I know feels applies to us.\n\nI\'m dead serious here. When people start going on (as they do in this\nmatter) about how "repulsive" and "unnatural" our acts are -- and what\ndo they know about it, huh? -- it is a solid clue to the same sort of\narbitrary cultural inculcations as the American prejudice against eating\ninsects. On what basis, other than assuming your conclusion, can you\nsay that the law against male-male intercourse in Leviticus is NOT a part\nof the ritual law?\n\nFor those Christians who *do* think that *some* parts of Leviticus can\nbe "law" for Christians (while others are not even to be thought about)\nit is incumbent on you *in every case, handled on its own merits* to\ndetermine why you "pick" one and ignore another. I frankly think the\nwhole effort misguided. Reread Paul: "No doubt I am free to do anything."\nBut Christians have a criterion to use for making our judgments on this,\nthe Great Commandment of love for God and neighbor. If you cannot go\nthrough Leviticus and decide each "command" there on that basis, then\nyour own arbitrary selection from it is simply idiosyncracy. In this\ncontext, it is remarkably offensive to say:\n\n>I notice that the verse forbidding bestiality immediately follows the\n>verse prohibiting what appears to be homosexual intercourse.\n\nWell, la-ti-da. So what? This is almost as slimey an argument as the\none that homosexuality == rape. I know of no one who argues seriously\n(though one can always find jokers) in "defense" of bestiality. It is\nabsolutely irrelevant and incomparable to the issues gay Christians *do*\nraise (which concern sexual activity within committed, consensual human\nadult realtionships), so that your bringing it up is no more relevant\nthan the laws of kashrut. If you cannot address the actual issues, you\nare being bloody dishonest in trailing this red herring in front of the\nworld. If *you* want to address bestiality, that is YOUR business, not\nmine. And attempting to torpedo a serious issue by using what is in\nour culture a ridiculous joke shows that you have no interest in hearing\nus as human beings. You want to dismiss us, and use the sleaziest means\nyou can think of to do so.\n\nJesus and Paul both expound, very explictly and in considerable length,\nthe central linch-pin of Christian moral thought: we are required to\nlove one another, and ALL else depends on that. Gay and lesbian Christ-\nians challenge you to address the issue on those terms -- and all we get\nin return are cheap debate tricks attempting to side-track the issues.\n\nChristians, no doubt very sincere ones, keep showing up here and in every\ncorner of USENET and the world, and ALL they ever do is spout these same\nold verses (which they obviously have never thought about, maybe never\neven read), in TOTAL ignorance of the issues raised, slandering us with\nthe vilest charges of child abuse or whatever their perfervid minds can\nmanage to conjure up, tossing out red herrings with (they suppose) great\nemotional force to cause readers to dismiss our witness without even\ntaking the trouble to find out what it is.\n\nSuch behavior should shame anyone who claims to have seen Truth in Christ.\nWHY, for God\'s precious sake, do you people quote irrelevant verses to\ncondemn people you don\'t know and won\'t even take the trouble to LISTEN\nto BEFORE you start your condemnations? Is that loving your neighbor?\nGod forbid! Is THAT how you obey the repeated commands to NOT judge or\ncondemn others? Christ and Paul spend ORDERS OF MAGNITUDE more time in\ninsisting on this than the half-dozen obscure words in Paul that you are\nSO bloody ready to take as license to do what God tells you NOT to do.\n\nWhy, for God\'s sake?\n\n\t"For God did not send the Son into the world\n\tto condemn the world,\n\tbut that the world might be saved through him.\n\tWhoever believes in him is not condemned,\n\tbut whoever does not believe has already been condemned\n\tfor refusing to believe in the name of God\'s only Son.\n\tNow the judgment is this:\n\tthe light has come into the world,\n\tbut men have preferred darkness to light\n\tbecause their deeds were evil.\n\tFor everyone who practices wickedness\n\thates the light,\n\tand does not come near the light\n\tfor fear his deeds will be exposed.\n\tBut he who acts in truth\n\tcomes into the light,\n\tso that it may be sh0own\n\tthat his deeds are done in God."\tJohn 3:17-21\n\nFor long ages, we (many of us) have been confused by evil counsel from\nevil men and told that if we came to the light we would be shamed and\nrejected. Some of us despaired and took to courses that probably *do*\nshow a sinful shunning of God\'s light. Blessed are those whose spirits\nhave been crushed by the self-righteous; they shall be justified.\n\nHowever, we have seen the Truth, and the Truth is the light of humanity;\nand we now know that it is not WE who fear the light, but our enemies who\nfear the light of our witness and will do everything they can to shadow\nit with the darkness of false witness against us.\n-- \nMichael L. Siemon\t\tI say "You are gods, sons of the\nmls@panix.com\t\t\tMost High, all of you; nevertheless\n - or -\t\t\tyou shall die like men, and fall\nmls@ulysses.att..com\t\tlike any prince." Psalm 82:6-7\n',
'From: rsc@altair.csustan.edu (Steve Cunningham)\nSubject: Re: ACM SIGGRAPH Registration Problem\nSummary: It\'s fixed...\nOrganization: CSU Stanislaus\nLines: 29\n\nzyda@cs.nps.navy.mil (Michael Zyda) notes:\n\n> A word of warning for those of you registering for SIGGRAPH \'93.\n> I just received my registration form back in the mail with the\n> envelope marked "Return to sender. Moved - Left No Address.\n> Closed PO Box". The address I used to register for SIGGRAPH \'93\n> is the one printed on the registration form:\n> \n> ACM SIGGRAPH \'93\n> PO Box 95316,\n> Chicago, IL 60694-5316\n> \n> I printed the envelope in my best printing, honest but evidently\n> SIGGRAPH \'93 has skipped town or moved?\n> \n> I ended up faxing my registration to: 312-321-6876. I hope that\n> number is real!\n> \n> Michael Zyda\n\nI had the same problem and called the people who handle the box; the\nproblem happened some time ago and was caught almost instantly. All\nregistrations going to that address are now fixed. See what trouble\nyou get into when you don\'t procrastinate, Mike?\n\nAnd no, SIGGRAPH 93 has not skipped town -- we\'re preparing the best\nSIGGRAPH conference yet!\n\n-- Steve Cunningham \n',
'From: thomas@mvac23.UUCP (Thomas Lapp)\nSubject: Re: Nose Picking\nOrganization: MultiVac23, Newark, DE, U.S.A.\nLines: 22\n\nstephen@mont.cs.missouri.edu (Stephen Montgomery-Smith) writes:\n> 1) Does it cause the body any harm if one picks one\'s nose? For example,\n> might it lead to a loss of ability to smell?\n> \n> 2) Is it harmful for one to eat one\'s nose pickings?\n\nI\'ve seen children do this and wondered about something. If the\nmucus in one\'s nose collects (filters) particles going into the\nairway, if a child then picks and ingests this material, might\nit have a vaccinatory effect, since if the body ingests airborne\ndiseases or other \'stuff\' on the mucus, the body might generate\nantibodies for this small "invasion"?\n\nMaybe this is why some children don\'t get sick very often? :-)\n - tom\n--\ninternet : mvac23!thomas@udel.edu or thomas%mvac23@udel.edu (home)\n : lapp@cdhub1.dnet.dupont.com (work)\nOSI : C=US/A=MCI/S=LAPP/D=ID=4398613\nuucp : {ucbvax,mcvax,uunet}!udel!mvac23!thomas\nLocation : Newark, DE, USA\n\n',
"From: ewinterr@cwis.isu.edu (EWING_TERRY)\nSubject: Raytriacing and animation\nOrganization: Idaho State University, Pocatello\nLines: 14\nNNTP-Posting-Host: cwis.isu.edu\n\n\nNow I have a couple raytracing questions.\nJust so you know I'm using PovRay 1.0 (both MS-dos and Unix) and I'm generating Targa files of varying size.\n\n1) ok, so I can view these wonderful pictures on my screen. What's the best way to get them on to paper? Would it be possible to take it to Kinko's and have them make an actual picture on paper from it?\n\n2) I was thinking about making a small animation bit with different raytraced \nframes. Is this a bad idea? Any tricks to it?\n\n3\n\n)\n How would I get a sequence of targa files made into an animation \nthat I could put on a videotape? Is there a cheap way?\n",
'From: trones@dxcern.cern.ch (Jostein Lodve Trones)\nSubject: Re: Krillean Photography\nReply-To: trones@dxcern.cern.ch (Jostein Lodve Trones)\nOrganization: CERN European Lab for Particle Physics\nLines: 40\n\n\nIn article <1993Apr26.120417.22328@linus.mitre.org>, gpivar@maestro.mitre.org (Greg Pivarnik) writes:\n \n|> In article <1993Apr22.211005.21578@scorch.apana.org.au>, bill@scorch.apana.org.au (Bill Dowding) writes:\n\n|> |> Krillean photography involves taking pictures of minute decapods resident |> |> in \n|> |> the seas surrounding the antarctic. Or pictures taken by them, perhaps.\n|> |> \n|> |> Bill from oz\n|> |> \n|> \n|> \n|> Bill,\n|> No flame intended but you\'re way, way off base. In simple terms Kirilian\n|> photography registers the electromagnetical fields around objects, in simple,\n|> it takes pictures of your aura.\n|> \n|> \n|> -- \n|> Greg \n|> \n|> -- Be still, be silent...the rest is easy. --\n|> \n\nGreg,\nNo flame intended, but I think you just missed one of the rare attempts of\nhumor in sci.skeptic.\n"Krillean" against "Kirilian". Get it?\n;-)\n\nBTW, I think you\'re a bit of base yourself, since, to my knowledge, the\nelectromagnetic field around a stone is rather abscent. But still, a stone\nhas a nice "aura" on the Kirilian photographs.\n\nDon\'t remember excactly, but "corona discharge" I think is a more fitting\nexpression than aura. Think you\'ll find something on this in the skeptic-faq.\n\n\nCheers,\n\tJostein\n',
'From: jgreen@trumpet.calpoly.edu (James Thomas Green)\nSubject: Re: islamic authority over women\nOrganization: California Polytechnic State University, San Luis Obispo\nLines: 18\n\nkmr4@po.CWRU.edu (Keith M. Ryan) Pontificated: \n>\n>Q: How many Moslem men does it take to rape a woman?\n>A: Five, one to commit the act, and four to witness the penetration.\n>\n>\n>"A guilty verdict can be rendered only if there is a confession or if there\n>are at least two male witnesses to the crime. Adultery and rape are proved\n>only if four witnesses have seen the actual penetration, an occurrence that\n>presumably does not happen often."\n\nIs this from the Quran (or however it\'s spelled)?\n\n\n/~~~(-: James T. Green :-)~~~~(-: jgreen@oboe.calpoly.edu :-)~~~\\ \n| "At all times and in all nations, |\n| the priest has been hostile to liberty." |\n| <Thomas Jefferson> |\n',
"From: klrklr@iastate.edu (Kevin L Rens)\nSubject: Re:Christian Reformed\nOrganization: Iowa State University, Ames, IA\nLines: 7\n\nDoes anyone belong to or know any facts about the\n Christian Reformed Church?\n\n[It's one of two major heirs to the Dutch Reformed tradition in the\nU.S. The other is the Reformed Church in America. The CRC is\nmore or less a spinoff from the RCA. It was unclear to me from\nmy reference exactly the differences between them are. --clh]\n",
"From: twain@carson.u.washington.edu (Barbara Hlavin)\nSubject: Re: Patti Duke's Problem\nArticle-I.D.: shelley.1rh6d7INNlkh\nOrganization: University of Washington, Seattle\nLines: 19\nNNTP-Posting-Host: carson.u.washington.edu\n\nIn article <1993Apr26.070649.2138@hemlock.cray.com> n3022@cray.com writes:\n>Does anyone have information about the struggles that Patti\n>Duke went through in her personal life with severe mood swings.\n>Did she have some form of chemical imbalance that triggered\n>these problems? I recall that she wrote a book about her troubles.\n>Does someone have the title of that book?\n\nShe's published two books about her manic-depressive illness: \n\n_Call Me Anna: the Autobiography of Patty Duke_, Patty Duke and \nKenneth Turan, Bantam Books 1987 \n\nand\n\n_A Brilliant Madness: Living with Manic-Depressive Illness_, Patty \nDuke and Gloria Hochman, Bantam Books 1992\n\n\n--Barbara \n",
'Subject: Religion As Cause (Was: islamic authority over women)\nFrom: SSAUYET@eagle.wesleyan.edu (Scott D. Sauyet)\nDistribution: world\nNntp-Posting-Host: wesleyan.edu\nX-News-Reader: VMS NEWS 1.20In-Reply-To: bil@okcforum.osrhe.edu\'s message of Tue, 20 Apr 1993 00:36:52 GMTLines: 55\nLines: 55\n\nBill Conner (bil@okcforum.osrhe.edu) writes:\n\n[ ... my stuff deleted ... ]\n\n> I don\'t have to make outrageous claims about religion\'s affecting and\n> effecting history, for the purpsoe of a.a, all I have to do point out\n> that many claims made here are wrong and do nothing to validate\n> atheism. \n\nBill, you seem to have erroneously assumed that this board has as its\nsole purpose the validation of atheism. It doesn\'t. This board is\nused to discuss atheism as a philosophy, to share posters\' experiences\nregarding atheism, to debunk various theisms and theism as a whole, to\nshare resources relating to atheism, and even to socialize with others\nwith similar views. And of course with the number of theists who come\nhere to preach, it is also used to argue the case for atheism. \n\n\n> At no time have I made any statement that religion was the\n> sole cause of anything, what I have done is point out that those who\n> do make that kind of claim are mistaken, usually deliberately. \n\nIf you want to accuse people of lying, please do so directly. The\nphrase "deliberately mistaken" is rather oxymoronic.\n\n \n> To credit religion with the awesome power to dominate history is to\n> misunderstand human nature, the function of religion and of course,\n> history. I believe that those who distort history in this way know\n> exaclty what they\'re doing, and do it only for affect.\n\nThe two forms of theism most often discussed here these days are\nChristianity and Islam. Both of these claim to make their followers\ninto good people, and claim that much of benefit to humanity has been\naccomplished through their faiths. IMHO they are right. The American\nFriends Service Committee (Quaker), Catholic Relief Services, Bread\nFor The World, Salvation Army soup kitchens, and Mother Theresa spring\nto mind. (Can someone with more knowledge of Islam supply the names\nof some analagous Islamic groups?) \n\nWhen Mother Theresa claims that her work is an outgrowth of her\nChristianity, I believe her. Her form of theism ascribes to her deity\nsuch a benevolence toward humanity that it would be wrong not to care\nfor those in need. The point is that such a philosophy does have the\npower to change the behavior of individuals; if it is widespread\nenough, it can change societies.\n\nThe same works for the horrors of history. To claim that Christianity\nhad little to do with the Crusades or the Inquisition is to deny the\nawesome power that comes from faith in an absolute. What it seems you\nare doing twisting the reasonable statement that religion was never\nthe solitary cause of any evil into the unreasonable statement that\nreligion has had no evil impacts on history. That is absurd.\n\n -- Scott Sauyet ssauyet@eagle.wesleyan.edu\n',
'From: nfotis@ntua.gr (Nick C. Fotis)\nSubject: (27 Apr 93) Computer Graphics Resource Listing : WEEKLY [part 3/3]\nLines: 1529\nReply-To: nfotis@theseas.ntua.gr (Nick (Nikolaos) Fotis)\nOrganization: National Technical Univ. of Athens\n\nArchive-name: graphics/resources-list/part3\nLast-modified: 1993/04/27\n\n\nComputer Graphics Resource Listing : WEEKLY POSTING [ PART 3/3 ]\n===================================================\nLast Change : 27 April 1993\n\n\n11. Scene generators/geographical data/Maps/Data files\n======================================================\n\nDEMs (Digital Elevation Models)\n-------------------------------\n DEMs (Digital Elevation Models) as well as other cartographic data\n [huge] is available from spectrum.xerox.com [192.70.225.78], /pub/map.\n\n Contact:\n Lee Moore -- Webster Research Center, Xerox Corp. --\n Voice: +1 (716) 422 2496\n Arpa, Internet: Moore.Wbst128@Xerox.Com\n[ Check also on ncgia.ucsb.edu (128.111.254.105), /pub/dems -- nfotis ]\n\n Many of these files are also available on CD-ROM selled by USGS:\n "1:2,000,000 scale Digital Line Graph (DLG) Data". Contains datas\n for all 50 states. Price is about $28, call to or visit in offices\n in Menlo Park, in Reston, Virginia (800-USA-MAPS).\n\n The Data User Services Division of the Bureau of the Census also has\n data on CD-ROM (TSO standard format) that is derived from USGS\n 1:100,000 map data. Call (301) 763-4100 for more info or they have\n a BBS at (301) 763-1568.\n\n[ From Dr.Dobbs #198 March 1993: ]\n\n "The U.S. Defense Mapping Agency, in cooperation with their counterpart\nagencies in CANADA, the U.K., and Australia, have released the Digital Chart\nof the World (DCW). This chart consists of over 1.5 gigabytes of reasonable\nquality vector data distributed on four CD-ROMS. .... includes coastlines,\nrivers, roads, railrays, airports,cities, towns, spot elevations, and depths,\nand over 100,000 place names."\n\nIt is ISO9660 compatible and only $200.00 available from:\n\nU.S. Geological Survey\nP.O. Box 25286\nDenver Federal Center\nDenver, CO 80225\n\nDigital Distribution Services\nEnergy, Mines, and Resources Canada\n615 Booth Street\nOttawa, ON\nK1A 0E9 Canada\n\nDirector General of Military Survey\n(Survey 3)\nElmwood Avenue\nFeltham, Middlesex\nTW13 7AH United Kingdom\n\nDirector of Survey, Australian Army\nDepartment of Defense\nCampbell Park Offices (CP2-4-24)\nCampbell ACT 2601 Australia\n\n\nFractal Landscape Generators\n----------------------------\n\nPublic Domain:\n\n Many people have written fractal landscape generators. for example\n for the Mac some of these generators were written by\n pdbourke@ccu1.aukuni.ac.nz (Paul D. Bourke).\n Many of the programs are available from the FTP sites and mail\n archive servers. Check with Archie.\n\nCommercial:\n\n Vista Pro 3.0 for the Amiga from Virtual Reality Labs -- list price\n is about $100. Their address is:\n\tVRL\n\t2341 Ganador court\n\tSan Luis Obispo,\n\tCA 93401\n\tTelephone or FAX (805) 545-8515\n\n Scenery Animator (also for the Amiga) is of the same caliber with Vista Pro 2.\n Check with:\n\tNatural Graphics\n\tP.O. Box 1963\n\tRaklin, CA 95677\n\tPhone (916) 624-1436\n\n Don\'t forget to ask about companion programs and data disks/tapes.\n\n Vista Pro 3 has been ported to the PCs.\n\n\nCIA World Map II\n----------------\n[ NOTE: this database is quite out of date, and not topologically structured.\n If you need a standard for world cartographic data, wait for the\n Digital Chart of the World. This 1:1M database has been produced from\n the Defense Mapping Agency\'s ONCs and will be available, together with\n searching and viewing software, on a number of CD-ROMs later this summer. ]\n\n Check into HANAUMA.STANFORD.EDU and UCSD.EDU (see ftp list above)\n The CIA database consists of coastlines, rivers and political boundaries\n in the form of line strokes. Also on hanauma.stanford.edu is a 720x360\n array of elevation data, containing one ieee floating point number for\n every half degree longitude and latitude.\n \n A program for decoding the database, mfil, can be found on the machine\n pi1.arc.umn.edu (137.66.130.11).\n There\'s another program, which reads a compressed CIA Data Bank file and\n builds a PHIGS hierachical structure. It uses a PHIGS extension known as\n polyline sets for performance, but you can use regular polylines. Ask\n Joe Stewart <joes@lpi.liant.com>.\n The raw data at Stanford require the vplot package to be able to view it.\n (was posted in comp.sources.unix). To be more exact, you\'ll have to\n compile just the libvplot routines, not the whole package.\n\nNCAR data\n---------\n NCAR (National Center for Atmospheric Research) has many types of\n terrain data, ranging from elevation datasets at\n various resolutions, to information about soil types, vegetation, etc.\n This data is not free -- they charge from $40 to $90 or more, depending\n on the data volume and media (exabyte tape, 3480 cartridge, 9-track tape,\n IBM PC floppy, and FTP transfer are all available). Their data archive\n is mostly research oriented, not hobbyist oriented. For more information,\n email to ilana@ncar.ucar.edu.\n\nUNC data tapes with voxel data\n--------------\n There are 2 "public domain" tapes with data for the comparison and\n testing of various volume rendering algorithms (mainly MRI and CT\n scans). These tapes are distributed by the SoftLab of UNC @ Chapel Hill.\n (softlab@cs.unc.edu)\n\n The data sets (volume I and II) are also available via anonymous FTP from\n omicron.cs.unc.edu [128.109.136.159] in pub/softlab/CHVRTD\n\nNASA\n----\n Many US agencies such as NASA publish CD-ROMs with many altimetry data\n from various space missions, eg. Viking for Mars, Magellan for Venus,\n etc. Especially for NASA, I would suggest to call the following\n address for more info:\n\n National Space Science Date Center\n Goddard Space Flight Center\n Greenbelt, Maryland 20771\n Telephone: (301) 286-6695\n Email address: request@nssdca.gsfc.nasa.gov\n\n The data catalog (*not* the data itself) is available online.\n Internet users can telnet to nssdca.gsfc.nasa.gov (128.183.10.4) and log\n in as \'NODIS\' (no password).\n\n You can also dial in at (301)-286-9000 (300, 1200, or 2400 baud, 8 bits,\n no parity, one stop). At the "Enter Number:" prompt, enter MD and\n carriage return. When the system responds "Call Complete," enter a few\n more carriage returns to get the "Username:" and log in as \'NODIS\' (no\n password).\n\n NSSDCA is also an anonymous FTP site, but no comprehensive list of\n what\'s there is available at present.\n\nEarth Sciences Data\n-------------------\n\n There\'s a listing of anonymous FTP sites for earth science data, including\n imagery. This listing is called "Earth Sciences Resources on Internet",\n and you can get it via anonymous FTP from csn.org [128.138.213.21]\n in the directory COGS under the name "internet.resources.earth.sci"\n\n Some sites include:\n aurelie.soest.hawaii.edu [128.171.151.121]: pub/avhrr/images - AVHRR images\n ames.arc.nasa.gov [128.102.18.3]: pub/SPACE/CDROM - images from\n Magellan and Viking missions etc.\n pub/SPACE/Index contains a listing of files available in the whole\n archive (the index is about 200K by itself). There\'s also an\n e-mail server for the people without Internet access: send a letter\n to archive-server@ames.arc.nasa.gov (or ames!archive-server). In the\n subject of your letter (or in the body), use commands like:\n\n send SPACE Index\n send SPACE SHUTTLE/ss01.23.91\n\n (Capitalization is important! Only text files are handled by the\n email server at present)\n\n vab02.larc.nasa.gov [128.155.23.47]: pub/gifs/misc/landsat -\n\tLandsat photos in GIF and JPEG format\n[ It was shut down - nfotis; anyone has a copy of this archive?? ]\n\nOthers\n------\n Daily values of river discharge, streamflow, and daily weather data is\n available from EarthInfo, 5541 Central Ave., Boulder CO 80301. These\n disks are expensive, around $500, but there are quantity discounts.\n (303) 938-1788.\n\n Check vmd.cso.uiuc.edu [128.174.5.98], the wx directory carries\n data regarding surface analysis, weather radar, and sat view pics in\n GIF format (updated hourly)\n\n pioneer.unm.edu [129.24.9.217] is the Space and Planetary Image Facility\n (located on the University of New Mexico campus) FTP server. It provides\n Anonymous FTP access to >150 CD-ROMS with data/images.\n\n A disk with earthquake data, topography, gravity, geopolitical info\n is available from NGDC (National Geophysical Data Center), 325 Broadway,\n Boulder, CO 80303. (303) 497-6958.\n\n EOSAT (at least in the US) now sells Landsat MSS data older than two years\n old for $200 per scene, and they have been talking about a similar deal\n for Landsat TM data. The MSS data are 4 bands, 80 meter resolution.\n\n Check out anonymous FTP to ftp.ncsa.uiuc.edu in\n UNIX/PolyView/alpha-shape for a tool that creates convex hulls\n alpha-shapes (a generalization of the convex hull) from 3D point sets.\n\n The GRIPS II (Gov. Raster Image Processing Software) CD-ROM\n is available from CD-ROM Inc. at 1-800-821-5245 for $49.\n Code for viewing ADRG (Arc Digitised Raster Graphics) files is\n available on the GRIPS II CD-ROM. The U.S. Army Engineer \n Topographic Labs (Juan Perez) code is also available via FTP\n ( adrg.zip archive in spectrum.xerox.com )\n\nNRCC range data\n---------------\n Rioux M., Cournoyer L. "The NRCC Three-Dimensional Image Data Files",\n Tech. Report, CNRC 29077, National Research Council Canada,\n Ottawa, Canada, 1988\n [ From what I understand, these data are from a laser range finder,\n and you can a copy for research purposes ]\n\n==========================================================================\n\n12. 3D scanners - Digitized 3D Data\n===================================\n\na. Cyberware Labs, Monterey, CA, manufactures a 3D color laser digitizer\n which can be used to model parts of, or a complete, human body.\n They run a service bureau also, so they can digitize models for you.\n\n Address:\n Cyberware Labs, Inc\n 8 Harris Ct, Suite 3D\n Monterey, CA 93940\n Phone: (408)373-1441, Fax: (408)373-3582\n\nb. Polhemus makes a 6D input device (actually a couple of models)\n that senses position (3D) and *orientation* (+3D) based on electromagnetic\n field interference. This equipment is also incorporated in the\n VPL Dataglove.\n This hardware is also called ISOTRACK, from Keiser Aerospace.\n\nAscension Technology makes a similar 3D input device.\nThere is a company, Applied Sciences(?), that makes a 3D input\ndevice (position only) based on speed of sound triangulation.\n\nc. A company that specializes in digitizing is Viewpoint. You can ask\n for Viewpoint\'s _free_ 100 page catalog full of ready to \n ship datasets from categories such as cars, anatomy, aircraft,sports,\n boats, trains, animals and others. Though these objects are\n quite expensive, the cataloge is nevertheless of interest for it\n has pictures of all the available objects in wireframe , polygon mesh.\n\n Contact:\n\n Viewpoint,\n 870 West Center,\n Orem, Utah 84057\n ph# 801-224-2222\n fax# 801-224-2272\n 1-800-DATASET\n\n------\n\n Some addresses for companies that make digitizers:\n\n Ascension Technology\n Bird, Flock of Birds, Big Bird: 6d trackers\n P.O. Box 527,\n Burlington, VT 05402\n Phone: (802) 655-7879, Fax: (802) 655-5904\n\n Polhemus Incorporated\n Digitizer: 6d trackers\n P.O. Box 560, Hercules Dr.\n Colchester, Vt. 05446\n Tel: (802) 655-3159\n\n Logitech Inc.\n Red Baron, ultrasonic 6D mouse\n 6506 Kaiser Dr.\n Freemont, CA 94555\n Tel: (415) 795-8500w\n\n Shooting Star Technology\n Mechanical Headtracker\n 1921 Holdom Ave.\n Burnaby, B.C. Canada V5B 3W4\n Tel: (604) 298-8574\n Fax: (604) 298-8580\n\n Spaceball Technologies, Inc.\n Spaceball: 6d stationary input device\n 600 Suffolk Street\n Lowell, MA, 01854\n Tel: (508) 970-0330 \n Fax: (508) 970-0199\n Tel in Mountain View: (415) 966-8123 \n\n Transfinite Systems \n Gold Brick: PowerGlove for Macintosh\n P.O. Box N\n MIT Branch Post Office\n Cambridge, MA 02139-0903\n Tel: (617) 969-9570\n email: D2002@AppleLink.Apple.com\n\n VPL Research, Inc.\n EyePhone: head-mounted display\n DataGlove: glove/hand input device\n VPL Research Inc.\n 950 Tower Lane\n 14th Floor\n Foster City, CA 94404\n Tel: (415) 312-0200\n Fax: (415) 312-9356\n\n SimGraphics Engineering\n Flying Mouse: 6d input device\n 1137 Huntington Rd. Suite A-1\n South Pasadena, CA 91030-4563\n (213) 255-0900\n\n========================================================================\n\n13. Background imagery/textures/datafiles\n=========================================\n\n First, check in the FTP places that are mentioned in the FAQ or in the FTP\nlist above.\n\n24-bit scanning:\n----------------\n Get a good 24-bit scanner, like Epson\'s. Suggested is an SCSI port for\n speed. Eric Haines had a suggestion in RT News, Volume 4, #3 :\n scan textures for wallpapers and floor coverings, etc. from doll\n house supplies.\n So you have a rather cheap way to scan patterns that don\'t have\n scaling troubles associated with real materials and scanning area.\n\nBooks with textures:\n--------------------\n Find some houses/books/magazines that carry photographic material.\n Educorp, 1-619-536-9999, sells CD-ROMS with various imagery - also\n a wide variety of stock art is available.\n Stock art from big-name stock art houses, such as Comstock,\n UNIPHOTO, and Metro Image Base, is available.\n\n In Italy, there\'s a company called Belvedere that makes such books\n for the purpose of clipping their pages for inclusion in your\n graphics work. Their address is:\n\tEdition Belvedere Co. Ltd.,\n\t00196 Rome Italy,\n\tPiazzale Flaminio, 19\n\tTel. (06) 360-44-88, Fax (06) 360-29-60\n\nTexture Libraries:\n------------------\na. Mannikin Sceptre Graphics announced TexTiles, a set of 256x256 24-bit\n textures. Initial shipments in 24-bit IFF (for Amigas), soon in 24-bit\n TIFF format. Algorithmically built for tiled surfaces. SRP is $40 / volume\n (each volume = 40 images @ 10 disks). Demo disks for $5 are available.\n\n Contact:\n Mannikin Sceptre Graphics\n 1600 Indiana Ave.\n Winter Park, FL 32789\n Phone: (407) 384-9484\n FAX: (407) 647-7242\n\nb. ESSENCE is a library of 65 (sixty-five) new algoritmic textures for Imagine\n by Impulse, Inc. These textures are FULLY compatible with the floating point\n versions of Imagine 2.0, Imagine 1.1, and even Turbo Silver.\n Written by Steve Worley.\n\n For more info contact:\n Essence Info\n Apex Software Publishing\n 405 El Camino Real Suite 121\n Menlo Park CA 94025 USA\n\n[ What about Texture City ?? ]\n\n==========================================================================\n\n14. Introduction to rendering algorithms\n========================================\n\na. Ray-Tracing:\n---------------\n\n I assume you have a general understanding of Computer Graphics. No? Then read\n some of the books that the FAQ contains. For Ray-Tracing, I would\n suggest:\n An Introduction to Ray Tracing, Andrew Glassner (ed.), Academic Press\n 1989, ISBN 0-12-286160-4\n Note that I have not read the book, but I feel that you can\'t be wrong\n using his book. An errata list was posted in comp.graphics by Eric Haines\n (erich@eye.com)\n\nThere\'s a more concise reference also:\n\n Roman Kuchkuda , UNC @ Chapel Hill: "An Introduction to Ray Tracing", in\n "Theoretical Foundations for Computer Graphics and CAD", ed. R.A.E.Earnshaw,\n NATO AS, Vol. F-40., pp. 1039-1060. Printed by Springer-Verlag, 1988.\n\nIt contains code for a small, but fundamentally complete ray-tracer.\n\nb. Z-buffer (depth-buffer)\n--------------------------\n\nA good reference is:\n\n _Procedural Elements for Computer Graphics_, David F. Rogers,\n McGraw-Hill, New York, 1985, pages 265-272 and 280-284.\n\nc. Others:\n----------\n???\n[ More info is needed -- nfotis ]\n\n========================================================================\n\n15. Where can I find the geometric data for the:\n================================================\n\na. Teapot ?\n-----------\n\n"Displays on Display" column of IEEE CG&A Jan \'87 has the whole\nstory about origin of the Martin Newell\'s teapot. The article also has\nthe bezier patch model and a Pascal program to display the wireframe\nmodel of the teapot.\n\nIEEE CG&A Sep \'87 in Jim Blinn\'s column "Jim Blinn\'s Corner" describes\nan another way to model the teapot; Bezier curves with rotations for\nexample are used.\n\nThe OFF and SPD packages have these objects, so you\'re advised to get\nthem to avoid typing the data yourself. The OFF data is triangles at\na specific resolution (around 8x8[x4 triangles] meshing per patch).\nThe SPD package provides the spline patch descriptions and performs a\ntessellation at any specified resolution.\n\nb. Space Shuttle ?\n------------------\n\nTolis Lerios <tolis@nova.stanford.edu> has built a list of Space Shuttle\ndatafiles. Here\'s a summary (From his sci.space list):\n\nmodel1:\nA modified version of the newsgroup model (model2)\n\n406 vertices (296 useful, i.e. referred to in the polygon descriptions.)\n389 polygons (233 3-vertex, 146 4-vertex, 7 5-vertex, 3 6-vertex).\nPayload doors non-existent.\nUnits: unknown.\n\nSimon Marshall (S.Marshall@sequent.cc.hull.ac.uk) has a copy. He\nsaid there is no proprietary information associated with it.\n\nmodel2:\nThe newsgroup model, in OFF format. You can find it in\n\ngondwana.ecr.mu.oz.au , file pub/off/objects/shuttle.geo\nhanauma.stanford.edu , /pub/graphics/Comp.graphics/objects/shuttle.data\n\nmodel3:\nThe triangles\' model.\n\nThis model is stored in several files, each defining portions of the model.\n\nGreg Henderson (henders@infonode.ingr.com) has a copy. He did\nnot mention any restriction on the model\'s distribution.\n\nmodel4:\nThe NASA model.\n\nThe file starts off with a header line containing three real numbers,\ndefining the offsets used by Lockheed in their simulations:\n\n<x offset> <y offset> <z offset>\n\nFrom then on, the file consists of a sequence of polygon descriptions\n\n3473 vertices.\n2748 polygons (407 3-vertex, 2268 4-vertex, 33 5-vertex, 14 6-vertex,\n 10 7-vertex, 8 8-vertex, 8 12-vertex, 2 13-vertex, 2 15-vertex,\n 17 16-vertex, 2 17-vertex, 2 18-vertex, 3 19-vertex, 8 24-vertex).\nPayload doors closed.\nUnits: inches.\n\nJon Berndt (jon@l14h11.jsc.nasa.gov) seems to be responsible for the model\nProprietary info: unknown\n\nmodel5:\nThe old shuttle model.\n\nThe file consists of a sequence of polygon descriptions.\n\n104 vertices.\n452 polygons (11 3-vertex, 41 4-vertex).\nPayload doors open.\nUnits: meters.\n\nWe have been using this model at STAR Labs, Stanford University, for\nsome years now. Contact me (tolis@nova.stanford.edu) or my supervisor\nScott Williams (scott@star5.stanford.edu) if you want a copy.\n\n========================================================================\n\n16. Image annotation software\n=============================\n\na. Touchup runs in Sunview and is pretty good. It reads in\n rasterfiles, but even if your image isn\'t normally stored\n in rasterfile format you could use screendump to make it a\n rasterfile.\n\nb. Idraw (part of Stanford\'s InterViews distribution) can handle some\n image formats in addition to being a MacDraw like tool. I\'m not\n sure exactly what they are.\n You can ftp the idraw\'s binary from interviews.stanford.edu.\n\nc. Tgif is another MacDraw like tool that can handle X11 bitmap (xbm)\n and X11 pixmap (xpm) formats. If the image you have is in formats\n other than xbm or xpm, you can get the pbmplus toolkit to convert\n things like gif or even some Macintosh formats to xpm.\n Tgif\'s sources are available in the pub directory on cs.ucla.edu\n (Version 2.12 of tgif at patchlevel 7 plus patch8 and patch9)\n\nd. Use the editimage facility of KHOROS (see below).\n This is just one utility in the overall system- you can essentially do all\n your image processing and macdraw-type graphics using this package.\n\ne. You might be able to get by with PBMPlus. pbmtext gives you text output\n bitmaps which can be overlaid on top of your image.\n\nf. \'ice\' requires Sun hardware running OpenWindows 3.It\'s a PostScript-based\n graphical editor,and it\'s available for anonymous ftp from Internet host\n eo.soest.hawaii.edu (128.171.151.12). Requires Sun C++ 2.0 and\n two other locally developed packages, the LXT library (an Xlib-based\n toolkit) and a small C++ class library. All files (pub/ice.tar.Z,\n pub/lxt.tar.Z and pub/ldgoc++.tar.Z) are available in compressed\n tar format. pub/ice.tar.Z contains a README that gives installation\n instructions, as well as an extensive man page (ice.1).\n A statically-linked compressed executable pub/ice-sun4.Z for\n SPARC systems is also available for ftp.\n\n All software is the property of Columbia University and may not\n be redistributed without permission.\n\n ice means Image Composition Environment and it\'s an imaging tool that\n allows raster images to be combined with a wide variety of\n PostScript annotations in WYSIWYG fashion via X11 imaging\n routines and NeWS PostScript rasterizing.\n\ng. Use ImageMagick to annotate an image from your X server. Pick the \n position of your text with the cursor and choose your font and pen \n color from a pull-down menu. ImageMagick can read and write many\n of the more popular image formats. ImageMagick is available as\n export.lcs.mit.edu: contrib/ImageMagick.tar.Z or at your nearest\n X11 archive.\n\n========================================================================\n\n17. Scientific visualization stuff\n==================================\n\nX Data Slice (xds)\n-------------------\n Bundled with the X11 distribution from MIT,\n in the contrib directory. Available at ftp.ncsa.uiuc.edu [141.142.20.50]\n (either as a source or binaries for various platforms).\n\nNational Center for Supercomputing Applications (NCSA) Tool Suite\n-----------------------------------------------------------------\n\nPlatforms: Unix Workstations (DEC, IBM, SGI, Sun)\n Apple MacIntosh\n Cray supercomputers\n\nAvailability: Now available. Source code in the public domain.\n FTP from ftp.ncsa.uiuc.edu.\n\nContact: National Center for Supercomputing Applications\n Computing Applications Building\n 605 E. Springfield Ave.\n Champaign, IL 61820\n\nCost: Free (zero dollars).\n\nThe suite includes tools for 2D image and 3D scene analysis and visualization.\nThe code is actively maintained and updated.\n\nSpyglass\n--------\n They sell commercial versions of the NCSA tools. Examples are:\n\n\tSpyglass Dicer (3D volumetric data analysis package)\n\t\tPlatform: Mac\n\n\tSpyglass Transform (2D data analysis package)\n\t\tPlatforms: Mac, SGI, Sun, DEC, HP, IBM\n\n Contact:\n Spyglass, Inc.\n P.O. Box 6388\n Champaign, IL 61826\n (217) 355-6000\n\nKHOROS 1.0 Patch 5\n------------------\n Available via anonymous ftp at pprg.eece.unm.edu (129.24.24.10).\n cd to /pub/khoros to see what is available. It is HUGE (> 100 MB), but good.\n Needs Unix and X11R4. Freely copied (NOT PD), complete with sources\n and docs. Very extensive and at its heart is visual programming.\n Khoros components include a visual programming language, code\n generators for extending the visual language and adding new application\n packages to the system, an interactive user interface editor, an\n interactive image display package, an extensive library of image and\n signal processing routines, and 2D/3D plotting packages.\n\n See comp.soft-sys.khoros on Usenet and the relative FAQ for more info....\n\n Contact:\n\n The Khoros Group\n Room 110 EECE Dept.\n University of New Mexico\n Albuquerque, NM 87131\n\n Email: khoros-request@chama.eece.unm.edu\n\n\nMacPhase\n--------\n Analysis & Visualization Application for the Macintosh.\n Operates on 1D and 2D data arrays. Import/Export several different file\n formats. Several different plotting options such as gray scale,\n color raster, 3D Wire frame, 3D surface, contour, vector, line, and\n combinations. FFTs, filtering, and other math functions, color look up\n editor, array calculator, etc. Shareware, available via anonymous ftp from\n sumex-aim.stanford.edu in the info-mac/app directory.\n For other information contact Doug Norton (e-mail: 74017.461@@compuserve.com)\n\n\nIRIS Explorer\n-------------\n It\'s an application creation system developed by Silicon\n Graphics that provides visualisation and analysis functionality for\n computational scientists, engineers and other scientists. The Explorer\n GUI allows users to build custom applications without having to write\n any, or a minimal amount of, traditonal code. Also, existing code can\n be easily integrated into the Explorer environment. Explorer currently\n is available now on SGI and Cray machines, but will become available on\n other platforms in time. [ Bundled with every new SGI machine, as far as\n I know]\n\n See comp.graphics.explorer or comp.sys.sgi for discussion of the package.\n\n There are also two FTP servers for related stuff, modules etc.:\n\n ftp.epcc.ed.ac.uk [129.215.56.29]\n swedishchef.lerc.nasa.gov [139.88.54.33] - mirror of the UK site\n\napE\n---\n Back in the \'old good days\', you could get apE for nearly free.\n Now has gone commercial and the following vendor supplies it:\n\n TaraVisual Corporation\n 929 Harrison Avenue\n Columbus, Ohio 43215\n Tel: 1-800-458-8731 and (614) 291-2912\n Fax: (614) 291-2867\n\n Cost:\n $895 (plus tax); runtime version with a site-license for a single user\n (at a time), no limit on the number of machines in a cluster.\n $895 includes support/maintenance and upgrades.\n Source code more. Additional user licenses $360.\n\n The name of the package has become apE III (TM).\n Khoros is very similar to apE on philosophy, as are AVS and Explorer.\n\nAVS\n---\nSee also:\n comp.graphics.avs\n\nPlatforms: CONVEX, CRAY, DEC, Evans & Sutherland, HP, IBM, Kubota,\nSet Technologies, SGI, Stardent, SUN, Wavetracer\nAvailability: AVS4 available on all the above:\n For all UNIX workstations.\n\nContact:\n Advanced Visual Systems Inc.\n 300 Fifth Ave.\n Waltham, MA 02154\n\n (617)-890-4300 Telephone\n (617)-890-8287 Fax\n avs@avs.com Email\n\n Advanced Visual Systems Inc. for: CRAY, HP, IBM, SGI, Stardent, SUN\n CONVEX for CONVEX\n Advanced Visual Systems Inc. or CRAY for CRAY\n DEC for DEC\n Evans & Sutherland for Evans & Sutherland\n Advanced Visual Systems Inc. or IBM for IBM\n Kubota Pacific Inc. for Kubota\n Set Technologies for Set Technologies\n Wavetracer for Wavetracer\n\n FTP Site: for modules, data sets, other info:\n\tavs.ncsc.org (128.109.178.23)\n\nWIT\n---\n In a nutshell it\'s a package of the same genre as AVS,Explorer,etc.\n It seems more a image processing system than a generic SciVi system (IMHO)\n Major elements are:\n\n - a visual programming language, which automatically exploits the inherent\n parallelism\n - a code generator which converts the graph to a standalone program\n\n Iconified libraries present a rich set of point, filter, io, transform,\n morphological, segmentation, and measurement operations.\n A flow library allows graphs to employ broadcast, merge,\n synchronization, conditional, and sequencing control strategies.\n\n WIT delivers an object-oriented, distributed, visual programming\n environment which allows users to rapidly design solutions to their\n imaging problems. Users can consolidate both software and hardware\n developments within a complete CAD-like workspace by adding their\n own operators (C functions), objects (data structures), and servers\n (specialized hardware). WIT runs on Sun, HP9000/7xx, SGI and supports\n Datacube MV-20/200 hardware allowing you to run your graphs in real-time.\n\n For a free WIT demo disk, call, FAX, or e-mail (poon@ee.ubc.ca)\n us stating your complete name, address, voice, FAX, e-mail info.\n and desired platform.\n\n Pricing: WIT for Sparc, one yr. free upgrades, 30 days\n technical support....................$5000 US\n\n Academic institutions: discounts available\n\n\n Contact:\n Logical Vision Ltd.\n Suite 108-3700 Gilmore Way\n Burnaby, B.C., CANADA\n V5G 4M1\n Tel: 604-435-2587\n Fax: 604-435-8840\n\n Terry Arden <poon@ee.ubc.ca>\n\nVIS-5D\n------\n A system for visually exploring the output of 5-D gridded data sets\n such as those made by weather models. Platforms:\n\n SGI IRIS with VGX, GTX, TG, or G graphics,\n SGI Crimson or Indigo (R4000, Elan graphics suggested), IRIX 4.0.x\n IBM RS/6000 with GL graphics, AIX version 3 or later;\n Stardent GS-1000 and GS-2000 (with TrueColor display)\n\n In any case, 32 (or more) MB of RAM are suggested.\n\n You can get it freely (thanks to NASA support) via anonymous ftp:\n\n ftp iris.ssec.wisc.edu (or ftp 144.92.108.63), then\n\n ftp> cd pub/vis5d\n ftp> ascii\n ftp> get README\n ftp> bye\n\n NOTE: You can find the package also on wuarchive.wustl.edu in the\n graphics/graphics/packages directory.\n\n Read section 2 of the README file for full instructions\n on how to get and install VIS-5D.\n\n Contact:\n Bill Hibbard (whibbard@vms.macc.wisc.edu)\n Brian Paul (bpaul@vms.macc.wisc.edu)\n\nDATAexplorer (IBM)\n------------------\n Platforms : IBM Risc System 6000, IBM POWER Visualization Server\n (SIMD mesh 32 i860s, 40 MHz)\n\n Working on (announced) : SGI, HP, Sun\n\n Contact:\n Your local IBM Rep. For a trial package ask your rep to contact :\n\n David Kilgore\n Data Explorer Product Marketing\n YKTVMH(KILCORE), (708) 981-4510\n\nWavefront\n---------\n Data Visualizer, Personal Visualizer, Advanced Visualizer.\n Platforms: SGI, SUN, IBM RS6000, HP, DEC\n\n Availability:\n Available on all the above platforms from Wavefront\n Technologies. Educational programs and site licenses are\n available.\n\n Contacts:\n Mike Wilson (mike@wti.com)\n\n Wavefront Technologies, Inc.\n 530 East Montecito Street\n Santa Barbara, CA 93103\n 805-962-8117\n FAX: 805-963-0410\n\n Wavefront Europe\n Guldenspoorstraat 21-23\n B-9000 Gent, Belgium\n 32-91-25-45-55\n FAX: 32-91-23-44-56\n\n Wavefront Technologies Japan\n 17F Shinjuku-sumitomo Bldg\n 2-6-1 Nishi-shinjuku, Shunjuku-Ku\n Tokyo 168 Japan\n 81-3-3342-7330\n FAX 81-3-3342-7353\n\n\nPLOT3D and FAST from NASA Ames\n------------------------------\n These packages are distributed from COSMIC at least\n (for FAST ask Pat Elson <pelson@nas.nasa.gov> for\n distribution information). In general, these codes are for US\n citizens only :-(\n\nXGRAPH\n------\n On the contrib tape of X11R5. Its specialty is display of up\n to 64 data sets (2D).\n\nNCAR\n----\n National Center for Atmospheric Research. One of the original graphics\n packages. Runs on Sun, RS6000, SGI, VAX, Cray Y-MP, DecStations, and more.\n\n Contact:\n\tGraphics Information\n\tNCAR Scientific Computing Division\n\tP.O. Box 3000\n\tBoulder, CO 80307-3000\n\t(303)-497-1201\n\tscdinfo@ncar.ucar.edu\n\n Cost:\n\t.edu\n\t$750 Unlimited users\n\n\t.gov\n\t$750 1 user\n\t$1500 5 users\n\t$3000 25 users\n\n\t.com users multiply .gov * 2.0\n\nIDL\n---\n An environment for scientific computing and visualization.\n Based on an array oriented language, IDL includes 2D and 3D\n graphics, matrix manupulation, signal and image processing,\n basic statistics, gridding, mapping, and a widget based system\n for building GUI for IDL applications (Open Look, Motif, or\n MS-Windows).\n\n Environments: DEC (VMS and Ultrix), HP, IBM RS6000, SGI, Sun,\n Microsoft Windows. (Mac version in progress)\n Cost: $1500 to $3750, Educational and quantity discounts\n available.\n See also: comp.lang.idl-pvwave (the IDL-PVWAVE bundle)\n Contact: Research Systems Inc.\n 777 29th Street, Suite 302\n Boulder, CO 80303\n Phone: 303-786-9900\n FAX: 303-786-9909\n E-mail: info@rsinc.com\n Demo available via FTP. Call or E-mail for details.\n\nIDL/SIPS\n--------\n "A lot of people are using IDL with a package called SIPS. This was\n developed at the University of Colorado (Boulder) by some people working\n for Alex Goetz. You might try contacting them if you already have IDL\n or would be willing to buy it. It\'s a few thousand dollars (American) I\n expect for IDL and the other should be free. Those are the general\n purpose packages I\'ve heard of, besides what TerraMar has.\n SIPS _was_ written for AVIRIS imagery. I\'m not sure how general purpose\n it is. You would have to contact Goetz or one of his people and ask. I\n have another piece of software (PCW) that does PC and Walsh\n transformations with pseudocoloring and clustering and limited image\n modification (you can compute an image using selected components). I\'ve\n used it on 70 megabyte AVIRIS images without problems, but for the best\n speed you need an external DSP card. It will work without it, but large\n images take quite a while (50-70 times as long) to process. That\'s a\n freebie if you want it"\n\n "My favorite is IDL (Interactive Data Language) from Research Systems,\n Inc. IDL is in my opinion, much better and infinitely easier. Its\n programming language is very strong and easy -- very Pascal-like. It\n handles the number-crunching very well, also. Personally, I like doing\n the number-crunching with IDL on the VAX (or Mathematica, Igor, or even\n Excel on the Mac if it\'s not too hairy), then bringing it over to NIH\n Image for the imaging part. I have yet to encounter any situation which\n that combination couldn\'t handle, and the speed and ease of use\n (compared to IRAF) was incredible. By the way, it\'s mostly astronomical\n image processing which I\'ve been doing. This means image enhancement,\n cleaning up bad lines/pixels, and some other traditional image\n processing routines. Then, for example, taking a graph of intensity\n versus position along a line I choose with the mouse, then doing a curve\n fit to that line (which I might do like in KaleidaGraph.) "\n\n[ For IDL call Research Systems , for PV-WAVE call Precision Visuals and\n for SIPS call University of Colorado @ Boulder . From what I can\n understand, you can get packaged programs from Research Systems, though\n -- nfotis ]\n\nVisual3\n-------\n contact Robert Haimes, MIT\n\nFieldView\n---------\n An interactive program designed to assist an engineer in\n investigating fluid dynamics data sets. \n\n Platforms: SGI, IBM, HP, SUN, X-terminals\n\n Availability: Currently available on all of the above\n platforms. Educational programs and volume \n discounts are available.\n\n Contact:\n\n Intelligent Light \n P.O. Box 65\n Fair Lawn, NJ 07410\n (201)794-7550\n \n Steve Kramer (kramer@ilight.com)\n\n\nSciAn\n------\n SciAn is primarily intended to do 3-D visualizations of data in an \n interactive environment with the ability to generate animations using\n frame-accurate video recording devices. A user manual, on-line help, and\n technical notes will help you use the program.\n\n Cost : 0 (Free), source code provided via ftp.\n Platforms : SGI 4D machines and IBM RS/6000 with the GL card + Z-buffer\n\n Where to find it:\n ftp.scri.fsu.edu [144.174.128.34] : /pub/SciAn\n\tA mirror is monu1.cc.monash.edu.au [130.194.1.101] : /pub/SciAn\n\nSCRY\n----\n[ From the README : ]\n\n Scry is a distributed image handling system that pro-\n vides image transport and compression on local and wide area\n networks, image viewing on workstations, recording on video\n equipment, and storage on disk. The system can be distri-\n buted among workstations, between supercomputers and works-\n tations, and between supercomputers, workstations and video\n animation controllers. The system is most commonly used to\n produce video based movie displays of images resulting from\n visualization of time dependent data, complex 3D data sets,\n and image processing operations. Both the clients and\n servers run on a variety of systems that provide UNIX-like C\n run-time environments, and 4BSD sockets.\n \n The source is available for anonymous ftp:\n \n csam.lbl.gov [128.3.254.6] : pub/scry.tar.Z\n \n Contact:\n \n Bill Johnston, (wejohnston@lbl.gov, ...ucbvax!csam.lbl.gov!johnston)\n\n or\n\n David Robertson (dwrobertson@lbl.gov, ...ucbvax!csam.lbl.gov!davidr)\n \n Imaging Technologies Group\n MS 50B/2239\n Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory\n 1 Cyclotron Road\n Berkeley, CA 94720\n\n\nSVLIB / FVS\n-----------\n SVLIB is an X-Windows widget set based on the OSF (Open Software \n Foundation) Motif widget set. SVLIB widgets are macro-widgets \n comprising lower level Motif widgets such as buttons, scrollbars, \n menus, and drawing areas. It is designed to address the reusability \n of 2D visualization routines and each widget in the library is an \n encapsulation of a specific visualization technique such as colormap \n manipulation, image display, and contour plotting. It is targetted\n to run on UNIX workstations supporting OSF/Motif. Currently, only \n color monitors are supported. Since SVLIB is a collection of widgets \n developed in the same spirit as the OSF/Motif user interface widget \n set, it integrates seamlessly with the Motif widgets. Programmers \n using SVLIB widgets see the same interface and design as other \n Motif widgets.\n\n FVS is a visualization software for Computational Fluid Dynamics (CFD) \n simulations. FVS is designed to accept data generated from these\n simulations and apply various visualization techniques to present these\n data graphically. \n FVS accepts three-dimensional multi-block data recorded in NCSA HDF format.\n\n iti.gov.sg [192.122.132.130] : /pub/svlib (Scientific Visualization)\n /pu/fvs; These directories contain demo binaries for Sun4/SGI\n\n Cost : US$200 for academic and US$300 for non-academic institutions.\n (For each of the above items). You\'re getting the source for the licence.\n\n Contact\n -------\n Miss Quek Lee Hian\n Member of Technical Staff\n Information Technology Institute\n National Computer Board\n NCB Building\n 71, Sicence Park Drive\n Singapore 0511\n Republic of Singapore\n Tel : (65)7720435\n Fax : (65)7795966\n Email : leehian@iti.gov.sg\n\n\n---------------------------------------------------------\nGVLware Distribution:\n Bob - An interactive volume renderer for the SGI\n Raz - A disk based movie player for the SGI\n Icol - Motif color editor\n---------------------------------------------------------\n\nThe Army High Performance Computing Research Center (AHPCRC) has been\ndeveloping a set of tools to work with large time dependent 2D and 3D\ndata sets. In the Graphics and Visualization Lab (GVL) we are using\nthese tools along side standard packages, such as SGI Explorer and the\nUtah Raster Toolkit, to render 3D volumes and create digital movies.\nA couple of the more general purpose programs have been bundled into a\npackage called "GVLware".\n\nGVLware, currently consisting of Bob, Raz and Icol, is now available\nvia ftp. The most interesting program is probably Bob, an interactive\nvolume renderer for the SGI. Raz streams raster images from disk to\nan SGI screen, enabling movies larger than memory to be played. Icol\nis a color map editor that works with Bob and Raz. Source and\npre-built binaries for IRIX 4.0.5 are included.\n\nTo acquire GVLware, anonymous ftp to:\n machine - ftp.arc.umn.edu\n file - /pub/gvl.tar.Z\n\nTo use GVLware:\n mkdir gvl ; cd gvl\n zcat gvl.tar.Z | tar xvf -\n more README\n\nSome Bob features:\n Motif interface, SGI GL rendering\n Renders 64 cubed data set in 0.1 to 1.0 seconds on a VGX\n Alpha Compositing and Maximum Value rendering, in perspective\n (only Maximum Value rendering on Personal Iris)\n Data must be a "Brick of Bytes", on a regularly spaced grid\n Animation, subvolumes, subsampling, stereo\n\nSome Raz features:\n Motif interface, SGI GL rendering\n Loads files to a raw disk partition, then streams to screen\n (requires an empty disk partition to be set aside)\n Script interface available for movie sequences\n Can stream from memory, like NCSA XImage\n \nSome Icol features:\n Motif interface\n Easy to create interpolated color maps between key points\n RGB, HSV and YUV color spaces, multiple file formats\n Communicates changes automatically to Bob and Raz\n Has been tested on SGI, Sun, DEC and Cray systems\n\nBTW: Bob == Brick of Bytes\n Icol == Interpolated Color\n Raz == ? (just a name)\n\nPlease send any comments to\n gvlware@ahpcrc.umn.edu\n\nThis software collection is supported by the Army Research Office\ncontract number DAALO3-89-C-0038 with the University of Minnesota Army\nHigh Performance Computing Research Center.\n\n\nIAP\n---\n Imaging Applications Platform is a commercial package for medical and\n scientific visualization. It does volume rendering, binary surface\n rendering, multiplanar reformating, image manipulation, cine sequencing,\n intermixes geometry and text with images and provides measurement and\n coordinate transform abilities.\n\n It can provide hardcopy on most medical film printers, image database\n functionality and interconnection to most medical (CT/MRI/etc) scanners.\n\n It is client/server based and provides an object oriented interface. It\n runs on most high performance workstations and takes full advantage of\n parallelism where it is available. It is robust, efficient and\n will be submitted for FDA approval for use in medical applications.\n\n Cost: $20K for OEM developer, $10K for educational developer\n and run times starting at $8900 and going down based on quantity.\n\n The developer packages include two days training for two people in Toronto.\n\n Available from:\n\n ISG Technologies\n 6509 Airport Road\n Mississauga, Ontario,\n Canada, L4V-1S7\n\n (416) 672-2100\n e-mail: Rod Gilchrist <rod@isgtec.com>\n\n========================================================================\n\n18. Molecular visualization stuff\n=================================\n\n[ Based on a list from cristy@dupont.com < Cristy > , which asked for\n systems for displaying Molecular Dynamics, MD for short ]\n\nFlex\n----\n It is a public domain package written by Michael Pique, at The Scripps\n Research Institute, La Jolla, CA. Flex is stored as a compressed,\n tar\'ed archive (about 3.4MB) at perutz.scripps.edu [137.131.152.27], in\n pub/flex. It displays molecular models and MD trajectories.\n\nMacMolecule\n-----------\n (for Macintosh). I searched with Archie, and the most\n promising place is sumex-aim.stanford.edu (info-mac/app, and\n info-mac/art/qt for a demo)\n\nMD-DISPLAY\n----------\n Runs on SGI machines. Call Terry Lybrand (lybrand@milton.u.washington.edu).\n\nXtalView\n--------\n It is a crystallography package that does visualize molecules and much more.\n It uses the XView toolkit.\n Call Duncan McRee <dem@scripps.edu>\n\nlandman@hal.physics.wayne.edu:\n-----------------------------\n I am writing my own visualization code right now. I look at MD output\n (a specific format, easy to alter for the subroutine) on PC\'s. My\n program has hooks into GKS. If your friend has access to Phigs for X\n (PEX) and fortran bindings, I would be happy to share my evolving code\n (free of charge). Right now it can display supercells of up to 65\n atoms (easy to change), and up to 100 time steps, drawing nearest\n neighbor bonds between 2 defining nn radii. It works acceptably fast\n on a 10Mhz 286.\n\nicsg0001@caesar.cs.montana.edu:\n------------------------------\n I did a project on Molecular Visualization for my Master\'s Thesis, using\n UNIX/X11/Motif which generates a simple point and space-filling model.\n\nKGNGRAF\n-------\n\nKGNGRAF is part of MOTECC-91. Look on malena.crs4.it (156.148.7.12),\nin pub/motecc.\n\nmotecc.info.txt Information about MOTECC-91 in plain ascii format.\n----------------------------------------------------------------------------\nmotecc.info.troff Information about MOTECC-91 in troff format.\nmotecc.form.troff MOTECC-91 order form in troff format.\nmotecc.license.troff MOTECC-91 license agreement in troff format.\n----------------------------------------------------------------------------\nmotecc.info.ps Information about MOTECC-91 in PostScript format.\nmotecc.form.ps MOTECC-91 order form in PostScript format.\nmotecc.license.ps MOTECC-91 license agreement in PostScript format.\n\n\nditolla@itnsg1.cineca.it:\n------------------------\n I\'m working on molecular dynamic too. A friend of mine and I have\n\n developed a program to display an MD run dynamically on Silicon\n Graphics. We are working to improve it, but it doesn\'t work under X,\n we are using the graphi. lib. of the Silicon Gr. because they are much\n faster then X. When we\'ll end it we\'ll post on the news info about\n where to get it with ftp. (Will be free software).\n\nXBall V2.0\n----------\n Written by David Nedde. Call daven@maxine.wpi.edu.\n\nXMol\n----\n An X Window System program that uses OSF/Motif for the\n display and analysis of molecular model data. Data from several\n common file formats can be read and written; current formats include:\n Alchemy, CHEMLAB-II, Gaussian, MOLSIM, MOPAC, PDB, and MSCI\'s XYZ\n format (which has been designed for simplicity in translating to\n and from other formats). XMol also allows for conversion between\n several of these formats.\n Xmol is available at ftp.msc.edu. Read pub/xmol/README for\n further details.\n\nINSIGHT II\n----------\n from BIOSYM Technologies Inc.\n\nSCARECROW\n---------\n The program has been published in J. Molecular Graphics 10\n (1992) 33. The program can analyze and display CHARMM, DISCOVER, YASP\n and MUMOD trajectories. The program package contains also software for\n the generation of probe surfaces, proton affinity\n surfaces and molecular orbitals from an extended Huckel program.\n It works on Silicon Graphics machines.\n Contact Leif Laaksonen <Leif.Laaksonen@csc.fi or laaksone@csc.fi>\n\nMULTI\n-----\nns.niehs.nih.gov [157.98.8.8] : /pub - MULTI 3.0 (Multi-Process\n\t\tMolecular Modeling Suite)\n\nMindTool\n--------\n It runs under SunView, and requires a fortran compiler and Sun\'s CGI\n libraries. MindTool is a tool provided for the interactive graphic\n manipulation of molecules and atoms. Currently, up to 10,000\n atoms may be input.\n Available via anonymous FTP, at rani.chem.yale.edu, directory\n /pub/MindTool ( Check with Archie for other sites if that\'s too far )\n\n[ I would also suggest looking at least in SGI\'s Applications Directory.\n It contains many more packages - nfotis ]\n\n===========================================================================\n\n19. GIS (Geographical Information Systems software)\n===================================================\n\nGRASS\n-----\n (Geographic Resource Analysis Support System) of the US Army\n Construction Engineering Research Lab (CERL). It is a popular geographic and\n remote sensing image processing package. Many may think of GRASS as a\n Geographic Information System rather than an Image Processing package,\n although it is reported to have significant image processing\n capabilities.\n\n Feature Descriptions\n\n I use GRASS because it\'s public domain and can be obtained through the\n internet for free. GRASS runs in Unix and is written in C. The source\n code can be obtained through an anonymous ftp from the Office of Grass\n Integration. You then compile the source code for your machine, using\n scripts provided with GRASS. I would recommend GRASS for someone who\n already has a workstation and is on a limited budget. GRASS is not very\n user-friendly, compared to Macintosh software." A first review of\n overview documentation indicates that it looks useful and has some pixel\n resampling functions not in other packages plus good general purpose\n image enhancement routines (fft). Kelly Maurice at Vexcel Corp. in\n Boulder, CO is a primary user of GRASS . This gentleman has used the\n GRASS software and developed multi-spectral (238 bands ??) volumetric\n rendering, full color, on Suns and Stardents. It was a really effective\n interface. Vexcel Corp. currently has a contract to map part of Venus\n and convert the Magellan radar data into contour maps. You can call them\n at (303) 444-0094 or email care of greg@vexcel.com 192.92.90.68\n\n Host Configuration Requirements\n\n If you are willing to run A/UX you could install GRASS on a Macintosh\n which has significant image analysis and import capabilities for\n satellite data. GRASS is public-domain, and can run on a high-end PC\n under UNIX. It is raster-based, has some image-processing capability,\n and can display vector data (but analysis must be done in the raster\n environment). I have used GRASS V.3 on a SUN workstation and found it\n easy to use. It is best, of course, for data that are well represented\n in raster (grid-cell) form.\n\n Availability\n\n CERL\'s Office of Grass Integration (OGI) maintains an ftp server:\n moon.cecer.army.mil (129.229.20.254).\n\n Mail regarding this site should be addressed to\n grass-ftp-admin@moon.cecer.army.mil.\n\n This location will be the new "canonical" source for GRASS software, as\n well as bug fixes, contributed sources, documentation, and other files.\n This FTP server also supports dynamic compression and uncompression and\n "tar" archiving of files. A feature attraction of the server is John\n Parks\' GRASS tutorial. Because the manual is still in beta-test stage,\n John requests that people only acquire it if they are willing to review\n it and mail him comments/corrections. The OGI is not currently\n maintaining this document, so all correspondence about it should be\n directed to grassx@tang.uark.edu\n\n Support\n\n Listserv mailing lists:\n\n grassu-list@amber.cecer.army.mil (for GRASS users; application-level\n questions, support concerns, miscellaneous questions, etc) Send\n subscribe commands to grassu-request@amber.cecer.army.mil.\n\n grassp-list@amber.cecer.army.mil (for GRASS programmers; system-level\n questions and tips, tricks, and techniques of design and implementation\n of GRASS applications) Send subscribe commands to\n grassp-request@amber.cecer.army.mil.\n\n Both lists are maintained by the Office of Grass Integration (subset of\n the Army Corps of Engineers Construction Engineering Research Lab in\n Champaign, IL). The OGI is providing the lists as a service to the\n community; while OGI and CERL employees will participate in the lists,\n we can make no claim as to content or veracity of messages that pass\n through the list. If you have questions, problems, or comments, send\n E-mail to lists-owner@amber.cecer.army.mil and a human will respond.\n\nMicrostation Imager\n-------------------\n Intergraph (based in Huntsville Alabama) sells a wide range of GIS\n software/hardware. Microstation is a base graphics package that Imager\n sits on top of. Imager is basically an image processing package with a\n heavy GIS/remote sensing flavor.\n\n Feature Description\n\n Basic geometry manipulations: flip, mirror, rotate, generalized affine.\n Rectification: Affine, 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 5th order models as well as a\n projective model (warp an image to a vector map or to another image).\n RGB to IHS and IHS to RGB conversion. Principal component analysis.\n Classification: K-means and isodata. Fourier Xforms: Forward, filtering\n and reverse. Filters: High pass, low pass, edge enhancing, median,\n generic. Complex Histogram/Contrast control. Layer Controller: manages\n up to 64 images at a time -- user can extract single bands from a 3 band\n image or create color images by combining various individual bands, etc.\n\n The package is designed for a remote sensing application (it can handle\n VERY LARGE images) and there is all kinds of other software available\n for GIS applications.\n Host Configuration Requirements\n\n It runs on Intergraph Workstations (a Unix machine similar to a Sun)\n though there were rumors (there are always rumors) that the software\n would be ported to PC and possibly a Sun environment.\n\nPCI\n---\n A company called PCI, Inc., out of Richmond Hill, Ontario, Canada, makes\n an array of software utilities for processing, manipulation, and use of\n remote sensing data in eight or ten different "industry standard"\n formats: LGSOWG, BSQ, LANDSAT, and a couple of others whose titles I\n forget. The software is available in versions for MS-DOS, Unix\n workstations (among them HP, Sun, and IBM), and VMS, and quite possibly\n other platforms by now. I use the VMS version.\n\n The "PCI software" consists of several classes/groups/packages of\n utilities, grouped by function but all operating on a common "PCI\n database" disk file. The "Tape I/O" package is a set of utility\n programs which read from the various remote-sensing industry tape\n formats INTO, or write those formats out FROM, the "PCI database" file;\n this is the only package I use or know much about. Other packages can\n display data from the PCI database to one or another of several\n PCI-supported third-party color displays, output numeric or bitmap\n representation of image data to an attached printer, e.g. an Epson-type\n dot-matrix graphics printer. You might be more spe- cifically\n interested in the mathematical operations package: histo- gram and\n Fourier analysis, equalization, user-specified operations (e.g.\n "multiply channel 1 by 3, add channel 2, and store as channel 5"), and\n God only knows what all else -- there\'s a LOT. I don\'t have and don\'t\n use these, so can\'t say much about them; you only buy the packages your\n particular application/interest calls for.\n\n Each utility is controlled by from one to eight "parameters," read from\n a common "parameter file" which must be (in VMS anyway) in your "default\n directory." Some utilities will share parameters and use the same\n parameter for a different purpose, so it can get a bit confusing setting\n up a series of operations. The standard PCI environment contains a\n scripting language very similar to IBM-PC BASIC, but which allows you to\n automate the process of setting up parameters for a common, complicated,\n lengthy or difficult series of utility executions. (In VMS I can also\n invoke utilities independently from a DCL command procedure.) There\'s\n also an optional programming library which allows you to write compiled\n language programs which can interface with (read from/write to) the PCI\n data structures (database file, parameter file).\n\n The PCI software is designed specifically for remote-sensing images, but\n requires such a level of operator expertise that, once you reach the\n level where you can handle r-s images, you can figure out ways to handle\n a few other things as well. For instance, the Tape I/O package offers a\n utility for reading headerless multi-band (what Adobe PhotoShop on the\n Macintosh calls "raw") data from tape, in a number of different\n "interleave" orders. This turns out to be ideal for manipulating the\n graphic-arts industry\'s "CT2T" format, would probably (I haven\'t tried)\n handle Targa, and so on. Above all, however, you HAVE TO KNOW WHAT\n YOU\'RE DOING or you can screw up to the Nth degree and have to start\n over. It\'s worth noting that the PCI "database" file is designed to\n contain not only "raster" (image) data, but vectors (for overlaying map\n information entered via digitizing table), land-use, and all manner of\n other information (I observe that a remote-sensing image tape often\n contains all manner of information about the spectral bands, latitude,\n longitude, time, date, etc. of the original satellite pass; all of this\n can go into the PCI "database").\n\n I _believe_ that on workstations the built-in display is used. On VAX\n systems OTHER than workstations PCI supports only a couple of specific\n third-party display systems (the name Gould/Deanza seems to come to\n mind). One of MY personal workarounds was a display program which would\n display directly from a PCI "database" file to a Peritek VCT-Q (Q-bus\n 24-bit DirectColor) display subsystem. PCI software COULD be "overkill"\n in your case; it seems designed for the very "high end"\n applications/users, i.e. those for whom a Mac/PC largely doesn\'t suffice\n (although as you know the gap is getting smaller all the time). It\'s\n probably no coincidence that PCI is located in Canada, a country which\n does a LOT of its land/resource management via remote sensing; I believe\n the Canadian government uses PCI software for some of its work in these\n areas.\n\nSPAM (Spectral Analysis Manager)\n--------------------------------\n Back in 1985 JPL developed something called SPAM (Spectral Analysis\n Manager) which got a fair amount of use at the time. That was designed\n for Airborne Imaging Spectrometer imagery (byte data, <= 256 pixels\n across by <= 512 lines by <= 256 bands); a modified version has since\n been developed for AVIRIS (Airborne VIsual and InfraRed Imaging\n Spectrometer) which uses much larger images.\n\n Spam does none of these things (rectification, classification, PC and\n IHS transformations, filtering, contrast enhancement, overlays).\n Actually, it does limited filtering and contrast enhancement\n (stretching). Spam is aimed at spectral identification and clustering.\n\n The original Spam uses X or SunView to display. The AVIRIS version may\n require VICAR, an executive based on TAE, and may also require a frame\n buffer. I can refer you to people if you\'re interested. PCW requires X\n for display.\n\nMAP II\n------\n Among the Mac GIS systems, MAP II is distributed by John Wiley.\n\nCLRview\n-------\n CLRview is a 3-dimensional visualization program designed to exploit\n the real-time capabilities of Silicon Graphics IRIS computers.\n\n This program is designed to provide a core set of tools to aid in the\n visualization of information from CAD and GIS sources. It supports\n the integration of many common but disperate data sources such as DXF,\n TIN, DEM, Lattices, and Arc/Info Coverages among others.\n\n CLRview can be obtained from explorer.dgp.utoronto.ca (128.100.1.129) \n in the directory pub/sgi/clrview.\n\n Contact:\n Rodney Hoinkes\n Head of Design Applications\n Centre for Landscape Research\n University of Toronto\n Tel: (416) 978-7197\n Email: rodney@dgp.utoronto.ca\n\n==========================================================================\n\nEnd of Resource Listing\n-- \nNick (Nikolaos) Fotis National Technical Univ. of Athens, Greece\nHOME: 16 Esperidon St., InterNet : nfotis@theseas.ntua.gr\n Halandri, GR - 152 32 UUCP: mcsun!ariadne!theseas!nfotis\n Athens, GREECE FAX: (+30 1) 77 84 578\n',
"From: engp2008@nusunix1.nus.sg (Leong Wai Ming)\nSubject: Help : animation for pcx, gif files\nOrganization: National University of Singapore\nX-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL9]\nLines: 15\n\nHi, I 've a series of images in sun raster formats. I've converted them\nto PCX formats (I can do the conversion to others like gif as well). I\nwould like to know of any software that is able to do animation for\nthese formats, and to record the animation onto a video tape.\n\nThank you.\n\n\n+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+\n\n Leong, Wai-Ming internet : engp2008@nusunix.nus.sg\n National University of Singapore bitnet : engp2008@nusvm.nus.sg\n\n\n\n",
'From: gloster@Inference.COM (Vance M. Gloster)\nSubject: Re: Compositing pictures on PC?\nOrganization: Inference Corporation\nLines: 28\nNNTP-Posting-Host: fourier.inference.com\nIn-reply-to: chu@TorreyPinesCA.ncr.com\'s message of Sat, 15 May 93 00:16:31 GMT\n\nIn article <1993May15.001631.7051@TorreyPinesCA.ncr.com> chu@TorreyPinesCA.ncr.com (Patrick Chu 3605) writes:\n\n I was wondering if anyone knows of a graphics package for the PC that\n will do compositing of a series of pictures?\n\n What I mean by "compositing" is, say I have a live video clip\n (digitized) panning around a living room, and a computer-generated\n bird flying around the screen. I want to combine these two series of\n pictures so that everywhere where the bird frames are black, I want\n the living room picture to show through. Yes, I realize I can do this\n with a genlock, and I do own a genlock, but I want to be able to do\n manual compositing also. It\'s ok if I have to composite one frame at\n a time; I assumed I\'d have to do that anyway. But being able to\n composite a series of frames would be even better.\n\n I\'ve looked around and I haven\'t found a PC package that will perform\n this. Help, please!\n\nIf you can get the live animation and the computer-generated animation\ninto AutoDesk Animator .FLI or .FLC format, AutoDesk Animator will do\nthis for you. It can take one animation, make a certain color\n"clear", and overlay it over another animation. I do not have a way\nright now to convert .AVI or .MPG files to animator files. Animator\nwill also import a series of .GIF files to create an animation, so if\nyour video capture stuff can create this is might work.\n\n-Vance Gloster\n gloster@inference.com\n',
"From: mathew <mathew@mantis.co.uk>\nSubject: Re: Who has read Rushdie's _The Satanic Verses_?\nOrganization: Mantis Consultants, Cambridge. UK.\nX-Newsreader: rusnews v1.02\nLines: 20\n\nperry@dsinc.com (Jim Perry) writes:\n> Anyway, since I seem to be the only one following this particular line\n> of discussion, I wonder how many of the rest of the readership have\n> read this book? What are your thoughts on it?\n\nI bought a copy of The Satanic Verses when there was talk of the British\nGovernment banning it. There's nothing interests me in a book more than\nmaking it illegal.\n\nHowever, it's still sitting on my shelf unread. Perhaps I'll get round to it\nsoon. I've still got a pile of Lem, Bulgakov and Zamyatin to go through; I\ndon't find nearly enough time to read. In fact, there are far more\ninteresting things to do than I can ever find time for; how anyone ever\nmanages to be bored is beyond me. If I didn't have to sleep, maybe I could\nmanage it.\n\n\nmathew\n-- \nAtheism: Anti-virus software for the mind.\n",
"From: sfp@lemur.cit.cornell.edu (Sheila Patterson)\nSubject: Re: SOC.RELIGION.CHRISTIAN\nOrganization: Cornell University CIT\nLines: 47\n\nIn article <May.12.04.26.55.1993.9901@athos.rutgers.edu>, dozier@utkux1.utk.edu (Anni Dozier) writes:\n|> After reading the posts on this newsgroup for the pasts 4 months, it \n|> has become apparent to me that this group is primarily active with \n|> Liberals, Catholics, New Agers', and Athiests. Someone might think \n|> to change the name to: soc.religion.any - or - perhaps even\n|> soc.religion.new. It might seem to be more appropriate.\n|> Heck, don't flame me, I'm Catholic, gay, and I voted \n|> for Bill Clinton. I'm on your side! \n\nMy sentiments exactly... which is why I'm unsubbing from this group.\nThis is the 3rd 'christian' discussion list I have ever belonged to\nand once again I'm being chased away by the strife, anger, discontent,\nlies, et al .\n\nAs Paul (Saul) said, 'I come to preach Christ, and Him crucified'\nDon't let the simple beauty of faith in God get overshadowed by heady\ntheological discussions or thousands of lines of post-incarnation\ntrappings of some church.\n\n\nAs for the atheists/agnostics who read this list: if you aren't\nchristian and if you have no intention of ever becoming one why on\nearth do you waste your time and mine by participating on a christian\ndiscussion list ?\n\nI will continue to search for christian discussion (prayerful, spirit-filled,\nkind, humble, patient, etc.) in other circles. \n\n-- \n Sheila Patterson, CIT CR-Technical Support Group\n 315 CCC - Cornell University\n Ithaca, NY 14853\n (607) 255-5388\n\n\n[I'm afraid that any discussion group containing people with different\nviews tends to turn into arguments about the largest differences\npresent. So talk.religion.misc spends a lot of time on\nChristian/atheist arguments, soc.religion.christian spends a lot of\ntime on arguments among different christian groups, and the bitnet\nCatholic group spends a lot of time on arguments between conservative\nand liberal Catholics. Personally I would prefer to have a set of\nsomewhat more specialized groups, at least as an alternative. Liberal\nand conservative Protestant and Catholic would handle most of the\ntraffic, though there are certainly significant groups (e.g.\nOrthodox). Of course it may be that most of our readers like the\narguments. I certainly find it painful moderating them. --clh]\n",
"From: aaron@minster.york.ac.uk\nSubject: Re: Gulf War / Selling Arms\nDistribution: world\nOrganization: Department of Computer Science, University of York, England\nLines: 14\n\nMark McCullough (mccullou@snake10.cs.wisc.edu) wrote:\n: I heard about the arms sale to Saudi Arabia. Now, how is it such a grave\n: mistake to sell Saudi Arabia weapons? Or are you claiming that we shouldn't\n: sell any weapons to other countries? Straightforward answer please.\n\nSaudi Arabia is an oppressive regime that has been recently interfering\nin the politcs of newly renunified Yemen, including assasinations and \nborder incursions. It is entirely possible that they will soon invade.\nUnluckily for Yemen it is not popular in the West as they managed to put\naside political differences during reunification and thus the West has\neffectively lost one half (North?) as a client state.\n\n\t\tAaron Turner\n \n",
'From: tegarr01@ulkyvx.louisville.edu\nSubject: Herpes question?\nOrganization: University of Louisville\nLines: 11\nNntp-Posting-Host: ulkyvx.louisville.edu\n\nI am looking for some clarification on a subject that I am trying to find some\ninformation on.\n\nHow is HSV-2 (Herpes) transmitted? I currently know that it can be transmitted\nduring inflammation but, what I am looking for is if it can be transmitted \nduring in other periods. Also, I want to know if you can be accurately tested \nfor it while you are not showing symtoms?\n\nIf you can help I would greatly appreciate it.\n\nTeg\n',
"From: nabil@cae.wisc.edu (Nabil Ayoub)\nSubject: Re: Monophysites and Mike Walker\nOrganization: U of Wisconsin-Madison College of Engineering\nLines: 83\n\nIn article <May.10.05.08.01.1993.3602@athos.rutgers.edu> db7n+@andrew.cmu.edu (D. Andrew Byler) writes:\n>Nabil Ayoub writes:\n>\n>>As a final note, the Oriental Orthodox and Eastren Orthodox did sign a\n>>common statement of Christology, in which the heresey of >Monophysitism\n>>was condemned. So the Coptic Orthodox Church does not believe in\n>>Monophysitism.\n>\n>Sorry!\n>\n>What does the Coptic Church believe about the will and energy of Christ?\n> Were there one or were there two (i.e. Human and Divine) wills and\n>energies in Him.\n>\n>Also, what is the objection ot the Copts with the Pope of Rome (i.e. why\n>is there a Coptic Catholic Church)? Do you reject the supreme\n>jurisdiction of the 263rd sucessor of St. Peter (who blessed St. John\n>Mark, Bishop of Alexandria was translator for) and his predecessors? Or\n>his infallibility? Or what other things perhaps?\n\nFor your first set of questions (regarding the energy and will of Christ)\nI quote to you the relevant part of the Statement signed by both Eastern\n(Chalcedonian) and Oriental (non-Chalcedonian) Orthodox scholars a few\nyears ago (Both families = both Orthodox churches) :\n\n1. Both families agreed in condemning the Eutychian heresy. Both families\nconfess that the Logos, the Second Person of the Holy Trinity, only begotten\nof the Father before the ages and consubstantial with Him, was incarnate and\nwas born from the Virgin Mary Theotokos; fully consubstantial with us, perfect\nman with soul, body and mind ($ \\nu o \\upsilon \\zeta $); He was crucified,\ndied, was buried and rose from the dead on the third day, ascended to the\nHeavenly Father, where He sits on the right hand of the Father as Lord of all\ncreation. At Pentecost, by the coming of the Holy Spirit He manifested the\nChurch as His Body. We look forward to His coming again in the fullness of His\nglory, according to the Scriptures.\n\n2. Both families condemn the Nestorian heresy and the crypto-Nestorianism of\nTheodoret of Cyrus. They agree that it is not sufficient merely to say that\nChrist is consubstantial both with His Father and with us, by nature God and\nby nature man; it is necessary to affirm also that the Logos, Who is by nature\nGod, became by nature man, by His incarnation in the fullness of time.\n\n3. Both families agree that the Hypostasis of the Logos became composite by\nuniting to His divine uncreated nature with its natural will and energy, which\nHe has in common with the Father and the Holy Spirit, created human nature,\nwhich He assumed at the Incarnation and made His own, with its natural will\nand energy.\n\n4. Both families agree that the natures with their proper energies and wills\n ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^\nare united hypostatically and naturally without confusion, without change,\n^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^\nwithout division and without separation, and that they are distinguished in\n^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^\nthought alone.\n^^^^^^^^^^^^^\n\n5. Both families agree that He who wills and acts is always the one Hypostasis\nof the Logos Incarnate.\n\n[...]\n\nI guess that adresses your question adequately.\n\nAs for your second set of questions, I am afraid they are irrelevant to the\ndiscussion (at least from my point of view) of Monophysitism. I do not see\nhow they relate to the topic we are discussing (other than to start an\nendless Orthodox-RC debate which I do not plan to engage into). As a brief\nanswer to your questions, the position of the Coptic Orthodox Church \nregarding the Roman pontiff, his jurisdiction, his infalability, etc.\nis exactly the same as all the other Orthodox churches.\n\nPeace,\n\nNabil\n\n .-------------------------------------------------------------.\n / Nabil Ayoub ____/ __ / ____/ /\n / Engine Research Center / / / / /\n / Dept. of Mechanical Engineering ___/ __ / / /\n / University of Wisconsin-Madison / / | / /\n / Email:ayoub@erctitan.me.wisc.edu _____/ __/ _| _____/ /\n '-------------------------------------------------------------'\n",
'From: imagesyz@aol.com\nSubject: WANNA SCAN 24-BIT COLR PICTURE?\nOrganization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway\nLines: 2\nNNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu\n\nMy 24-bit color 600 dpi fladbed scanner can do the job for you. GIF, TIFF,\nPCX, BMP. Interested? Please write to me: imagesyz@aol.com\n',
'From: kring@efes.physik.uni-kl.de (Thomas Kettenring)\nSubject: Old Sermon (was: Krillean Photography)\nOrganization: FB Physik, Universitaet Kaiserslautern, Germany\nLines: 43\n\nIn article <C65oIL.436@vuse.vanderbilt.edu>, alex@vuse.vanderbilt.edu (Alexander P. Zijdenbos) writes:\n>FLAME ON\n>\n>Reading through the posts about Kirlian (whatever spelling)\n>photography I couldn\'t help but being slightly disgusted by the\n>narrow-minded, "I know it all", "I don\'t believe what I can\'t see or\n>measure" attitude of many people out there.\n>\n>I am neither a real believer, nor a disbeliever when it comes to\n>so-called "paranormal" stuff; but as far as I\'m concerned, it is just\n>as likely as the existence of, for instance, a god, which seems to be\n>quite accepted in our societies - without any scientific basis.\n>\n>I am convinced that it is a serious mistake to close your mind to\n>something, ANYTHING, simply because it doesn\'t fit your current frame\n>of reference. History shows that many great people, great scientists,\n>were people who kept an open mind - and were ridiculed by sceptics.\n>\n>Especially the USA should be grateful; after all, Columbus did not\n>drop off the edge of the earth.\n>\n>FLAME OFF, or end sermon :-)\n\nWe know that sermon. It is posted roughly every month or so by different\npersons, and that doesn\'t make it any better.\n\nHow did you get the idea that skeptics are closed-minded? Why don\'t you\nconsider the possibility that they came to their conclusions by the\nproper methods? Besides, one can come to a conclusion without closing\none\'s mind to other possibilities.\n\nI you don\'t agree with a person, please ask him why he thinks like that,\ninstead of insulting him. Perhaps he\'s right. Follow your own advice,\nbe open-minded.\n\nIf you don\'t post a bit of evidence for your claims, I\'ll complain that\nit\'s always those "neither a real believer, nor a disbeliever" types who \nnarrow-mindedly judge others without knowing their motives.\n\n--\nthomas kettenring, 3 dan, kaiserslautern, germany\nThe extraterrestrials don\'t even know this planet has native inhabitants.\nTheir government doesn\'t tell them.\n',
"From: jeffs@sr.hp.com (Jeff Silva)\nSubject: Re: HELP for Kidney Stones ..............\nOrganization: HP Sonoma County (SRSD/MWTD/MID)\nLines: 25\nX-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1.9 PL6]\n\nMichael Covington (mcovingt@aisun4.ai.uga.edu) wrote:\n: In article <C697IJ.IuA@srgenprp.sr.hp.com> jeffs@sr.hp.com (Jeff Silva) writes:\n: >pk115050@wvnvms.wvnet.edu wrote:\n: \n: >move a little, the pain will be excrutiating. I was told by my doctor\n: >at that time that the pain was comparable to that of childbirth. (Yes,\n: >by a male doctor, so I'm sure some of you women will disagree). I'd\n: >really like to know the truth in this, so maybe some of you women who\n: >have had a baby and a kidney stone could fill me in. \n: \n: One more reason for men to learn the Lamaze breathing techniques, in order\n: to be able to get some pain reduction instantly, wherever you are.\n: -- \n: :- Michael A. Covington, Associate Research Scientist : *****\n: :- Artificial Intelligence Programs mcovingt@ai.uga.edu : *********\n: :- The University of Georgia phone 706 542-0358 : * * *\n: :- Athens, Georgia 30602-7415 U.S.A. amateur radio N4TMI : ** *** ** <><\n\nIt would have been pretty difficult to practice my hee hee's while I was\nkeeled over pukeing my guts out though.\n\n--\n\nJeff Silva\njeffs@sr.hp.com\n",
'From: mmeyer@m2.dseg.ti.com (Mark Meyer)\nSubject: Re: Krillean Photography\nOrganization: TI DSEG, Spring Creek, Plano, Tx.\nIn-Reply-To: gpivar@maestro.mitre.org\'s message of Mon, 26 Apr 1993 12:04:17 GMT\n\t<1993Apr26.120417.22328@linus.mitre.org>\nLines: 16\n\nIn article <1993Apr22.211005.21578@scorch.apana.org.au>, bill@scorch.apana.org.au (Bill Dowding) writes:\n> Krillean photography involves taking pictures of minute decapods\n> resident in the seas surrounding the antarctic. Or pictures taken by\n> them, perhaps.\n\nIn article <1993Apr26.120417.22328@linus.mitre.org> gpivar@maestro.mitre.org (Greg Pivarnik) writes:\n> No flame intended but you\'re way, way off base. In simple terms\n> Kirilian photography registers the electromagnetical fields around\n> objects, in simple, it takes pictures of your aura.\n\n\tGreg, no flame intended, but you have no discernible sense of\nhumor. What Bill wrote was intended to be funny. It\'s called a\n"joke", Greg. Look into it.\n\tBesides, Kirilian photography is actually photography of my\nfriend\'s two-year-old son Kiril. Perhaps you meant "Kirlian"?\n\n-- \nMark Meyer | mmeyer@dseg.ti.com |\nTexas Instruments, Inc., Plano TX +--------------------+\nEvery day, Jerry Junkins is grateful that I don\'t speak for TI.\n "You have triggered primary defense mechanism." "Blast!" "Affirmative."\n',
'From: uabdpo.dpo.uab.edu!gila005 (Stephen Holland)\nSubject: Re: Schatzki Ring/ PVC\'s\nOrganization: Gastroenterology - Univ. of Alabama\nLines: 48\n\nIn article <1993Apr27.180334@betsy.gsfc.nasa.gov>,\nohandley@betsy.gsfc.nasa.gov wrote:\n> \n> [summarized]\nA person with a Schatzki\'s ring (a membrane partially blocking the \nespphagus) has worsening dysphagia (difficulty swallowing) and the \ndoctor proposes dilation by balloow or bougie (using an inflatable\nballoon to rupture the ring or a rubber hose to push through it. \n\nQuestion: is balloon dilation safe, common, and indicated? It sounds\npretty invasive.\n> [end summary]\n\nYes, this is a common and safe procedure. The majority of Schatzki\'s\nrings described by x-ray, however, wnd up being due to inflammation\ninstead of the congenital Schatzki\'s ring. Occassionally a cancer\nmasquerades as a ring. You should have the endoscopy to see if it\nis due to the heartburn, and if so, you will need treatment for the\nheartburn ong term. The balloon dilation is an alternative to cutting\nopen your chest and cutting out a section of the esophagus, so dilation\nis not at all invasive, considering the alternative. \n\n\n> The second issue: [summarized] He has had extra heartbeats for the past\n3 to 4 years, and once was symptomatic from them, with some\nlightheadedness.\nHe is young, (30-ish), thin and in good\n> health (recent bloodtests were all normal), and do not smoke, use drugs or\n> caffeine, etc. I\'m willing to accept the extra beats as "normal", but don\'t\n> want to ignore them if they might be some kind of warning symptom. The number\n> of PVC\'s seems to increase throughout the day, and with exercise (or something\n> as simple as climbing some stairs). Also, if I get up after sitting or lying\n> down for a while, I tend to get a couple of extra beats. Could they possibly\n> be related to the esophagous problems? Both seemed to develop at about the\n> same time.\n\nI\' not an expert on heart problems, but PVC\'s are common and have been\novertreated in the past. My personal experience, and I have the same \nhistory an build you do (related to the heart, that is), is that my PVC\'s\ncome and go, with some months causing anxiety. Taking on more fluids\nseems to help, and they seem worse in the summer. Remember that a slow \nheart rate will allow more PVC\'s to be apparent, so perhaps it is an \nindication of a healthy cardiac system (but ask an expert about that\nlast point, especially)\n\nGood luck, hope we don\'t die of arrhythmias. (God, what a happy thought)\n\nSteve Holland\n',
'From: kmr4@po.CWRU.edu (Keith M. Ryan)\nSubject: Re: free moral agency\nOrganization: Case Western Reserve University\nLines: 21\nDistribution: na\nNNTP-Posting-Host: b64635.student.cwru.edu\nKeywords: Another thread destined for the kill-file\n\nIn article <1r98voINNr9q@lynx.unm.edu> cfaehl@vesta.unm.edu (Chris Faehl) writes:\n\n>> The myth to which I refer is the convoluted counterfeit athiests have\n>> created to make religion appear absurd. \n>\n>"Counterfeit atheists". Hmmmm. So, we\'re just cheap knock-offs of the\n>True Atheists. \n\n\tThey must be theists in disguise.\n\n\tIn any event, we don\'t _need_ to create religious parodies: just \nlook at some actual religions which are absurd.\n\n\n\x1b[34mAnd now . . . \x1b[35mDeep Thoughts\x1b[0m\n\t\x1b[32mby Jack Handey.\x1b[0m\n\n\x1b[36mIf you go parachuting, and your parachute doesn\'t open, and your\nfriends are all watching you fall, I think a funny gag would be\nto pretend you were swimming.\x1b[0m\n\n',
'From: alex@vuse.vanderbilt.edu (Alexander P. Zijdenbos)\nSubject: Re: Krillean Photography\nNntp-Posting-Host: edith\nOrganization: Vanderbilt University School of Engineering, Nashville, TN, USA\nLines: 16\n\nBefore more bandwidth gets wasted on this:\n\nI APOLOGIZE for my flame.\n\nFirst, because I distributed the message to so many newsgroups; I did\n not check the crosspostings of the article I followed up on.\n\nSecond, for not making my argument clear enough. I reacted to the tone\n of many of the anti-Kirlian posts, not to their content. Right\n or wrong, I found the arguments set in arrogant and sneering words\n (that includes "jokes"), which I still think is unwarranted.\n\nAnd, obviously, I should not have done the same.\n\n-- Alex\n\n',
'From: stark@dwovax.enet.dec.com (Todd I. Stark)\nSubject: Re: Mind Machines?\nOrganization: Digital Equipment Corporation\nLines: 57\nNNTP-Posting-Host: DWOVAX\nSummary: Brief intro to mind machines in general.\n\n\nIn article <C5snww.5GA@tripos.com>, homer@tripos.com (Webster Homer) writes...\n>I recently learned about these devices that supposedly induce specific \n>brain wave frequencies in their users simply by wearing them. \n\nThe principle underlying these devices is a well establish principle in\npsychology called \'entrainment,\' whereby external sensory stimuli\ninfluence gross electrical patterns of brain function.\n\nThey are \'experimental\' in that people experiment with them and they\nare _not_ widely (if at all) used in medicine for therapeutic purposes. \nGiven the exception of TENS and similar units used for external electrical \nstimulation, usually for pain relief, not really a light and sound machine.\n\nThey are _not_ experimental in the sense of a specific medical \ncategory to that effect, as with experimental drugs, as the FDA does not \nspecifically regulate medical devices in the way it does pharmaceuticals. \n\n>I would think that if they work as reported they would be incredibly useful,\n\nThere are few reliable studies of therapeutic or enhancement effects\nfor mind machines, other than those relaxation-related effects found with \nmeditation or self-hypnosis as well. Reported benefits are mostly anecdotal and\nsubjective so far, so it\'s hard to generalize about their potential value.\n\nA pretty good general non-technical introduction to a wide variety\nof these devices may be found in "Would the Buddha Wear a Walkman ?"\nSome interesting background material, names of suppliers, and capsule reviews\nof specific equipment. \n\n>do these mind machines (aka Light and Sound machines) work? can they induce\n>alpha, theta, and/or delta waves in a person wearing them? What research if\n>any has been done on them? Could they be used in lieu of a tranquilizer?\n>Or are they just another bit of quackery?\n\nA more important question might be whether they have enough additional\nvalue to be worth investing in. \'Biofeedback\' was found to be a legitimate\nand reliable effect experimentally under certain conditions, (in that\nit demonstrated that we can influence physiological processes previously \nconsidered purely autonomic) but never panned out as a particularly valuable \ntherapeutic tool because of the skill level required and the subtlety and\ntemporary nature of the effects in most cases. Maybe someone else \nhas more, there used to be a whole mailing list devoted to mind machines,\nsomewhere on the net.\n\n>Web Homer\n>homer@tripos.com\n\n\t\t\t\t\t\tkind regards,\n\n\t\t\t\t\t\ttodd\n+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+\n| Todd I. Stark\t\t\t\t stark@dwovax.enet.dec.com |\n| Digital Equipment Corporation\t\t (215) 354-1273 |\n| Philadelphia, Pa. USA |\n| "(A word is) the skin of a living thought" Olliver Wendell Holmes, Jr. |\n+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+\n',
'From: revdak@netcom.com (D. Andrew Kille)\nSubject: Re: Deuterocanonicals, esp. Sirach\nOrganization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)\nLines: 102\n\nporam@ihlpb.att.com wrote:\n: Lets talk about principles. If we accept that God sets the\n: standards for what ought to be included in Scripture - then we\n: can ask:\n: 1. Is it authoritative?\n\n"Authoritative" is not a quality of the writing itself- it is a statement\nby the community of faith whether it will accept the writing as normative.\n\n: 2. Is it prophetic?\n\nHow is "prophecy" to be defined? If it is "speaking forth" of God\'s message,\nmuch of the apocrypha must surely qualify.\n\n: 3. Is it authentic?\n\nAgain, by what standard? Is "authenticity" a function of the authors? the\nhistorical accuracy? \n\n: 4. Is it dynamic?\n\nWhat is this supposed to mean? Many of the apocryphal books are highly\n"dynamic" -thought provoking, faithful, even exciting.\n\n: 5. Is it received, collected, read and used?\n\nBy whom? Of course the apocryphal books were received (by some),\ncollected (or else we would not have them), read and used (and they still are,\nin the Catholic and Orthodox churches).\n\n: On these counts, the apocrapha falls short of the glory of God.\n\nThis is demonstrably false.\n\n: To quote Unger\'s Bible Dictionary on the Apocrapha:\n: 1. They abound in historical and geographical inaccuracies and\n: anachronisms.\n\nSo do other books of the Bible.\n\n: 2. They teach doctrines which are false and foster practices\n: which are at variance with sacred Scripture.\n\n"False" by whose interpretation? Those churches that accept them find no\ncontradiction with the rest of scripture. \n\n: 3. They resort to literary types and display an artificiality of\n: subject matter and styling out of keeping with sacred Scripture.\n\nThis is a purely subjective evaluation. The apocryphal books demonstrate\nthe same categories and forms of writing found in the other scriptures.\n(In fact, one could argue that the apocryphal "Additions to the Book of\nEsther" act rather to bring the "unscripturelike" book of Esther more into\nline with other books.)\n\n: 4. They lack the distinctive elements which give genuine\n: Scripture their divine character, such as prophetic power and\n: poetic and religious feeling.\n\nHave you ever read the Wisdom of Ben Sira or the Wisdom of Solomon? They\nexhibit every bit as much "poetic and religious feeling" as Psalms or\nProverbs.\n\n[deletions]\n\n: How do you then view the words: "I warn everyone who hears the\n: words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds anything to\n: them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book.\n: And if anyone takes away from this book the prophecy, God will\n: take away from him his share in the tree of life and in the\n: holy city" (Rev 22.18-9)\n: Surely this sets the standard and not just man-made traditions.\n\nThese words clearly were meant to refer to the book of Revelation alone,\nnot to the whole body of scripture. Revelation itself was accepted very\nlate into the canon. The church simply did not see it as having a primary\nrole of any kind in identifying and limiting scripture.\n\n: It is also noteworthy to consider Jesus\' attitude. He had no\n: argument with the pharisees over any of the OT canon (John\n: 10.31-6), and explained to his followers on the road to Emmaus \n: that in the law, prophets and psalms which referred to him - the \n: OT division of Scripture (Luke 24.44), as well as in Luke 11.51\n: taking Genesis to Chronicles (the jewish order - we would say\n: Genesis to Malachi) as Scripture.\n\nJesus does not refer to the canon for the simple reason that in his day,\nthe canon had not been established as a closed collection. The books\nof the apocrypha were part of the Septuagint (which was the Bible of\nthe early church). The Hebrew canon was not closed until 90 c.e.\nThe Torah (Pentateuch/ "Law") was established in Jesus\' day, as were\nthe Prophets (with the _exclusion_ of Daniel). The Writings, however,\nwere still in flux. Jesus does not refer to the Writings, only to the\nPsalms, which were part of them. The books of the apocrypha were all\npart of the literature that was eventually sifted and separated.\n\nTo argue that Jesus is referring to the Jewish canonical order in Luke 11:51\nis weak at best; he is not quoting scripture, but telling a chronological\nstory. And, as mentioned above, the Hebrew canon (especially in the\npresent order) did not exist as such in Jesus\' day.\n\nrevdak@netcom.com\n',
"From: biz@soil.princeton.edu (Dave Bisignano)\nSubject: Re: Why do people become atheists?\nReply-To: biz@soil.princeton.edu\nOrganization: Princeton University\nLines: 10\n\nKen,\nThen what happens when you die?\nWhy are you here?\nWhat is the purpose of Your life, do you think it's \njust by chance you're in the family you are in and have the\nfriends you have?\nWhy do you think your searching? To fill the void that\nexists in your life. Who do you think can fill that void\n\n--Dave--\n",
'From: sandvik@newton.apple.com (Kent Sandvik)\nSubject: Re: Who has read Rushdie\'s _The Satanic Verses_?\nOrganization: Cookamunga Tourist Bureau\nLines: 23\n\nIn article <11867@vice.ICO.TEK.COM>, bobbe@vice.ICO.TEK.COM (Robert\nBeauchaine) wrote:\n> \n> In article <EDM.93Apr20145436@gocart.twisto.compaq.com> edm@twisto.compaq.com (Ed McCreary) writes:\n> >\n> >While we\'re on the topic of books, has anyone else noticed that Paine\'s\n> >"The Age of Reason" is hard to find. I\'ve been wanting to pick up\n> >a copy for a while, but not bad enough to mail order it. I\'ve noticed\n> >though that none of the bookstores I go to seem to carry it. I thought\n> >this was supposed to be classic. What\'s the deal?\n> >--\n> \n> Me too. Our local used book store is the second largest on the\n> West Coast, and I couldn\'t find a copy there. I guess atheists\n> hold their bibles in as much esteem as the theists.\n\nIf I remember correctly Prometheus books have this one in stock,\nso just call them and ask for the book.\n\nCheers,\nKent\n---\nsandvik@newton.apple.com. ALink: KSAND -- Private activities on the net.\n',
'From: pduggan@world.std.com (Paul C Duggan)\nSubject: Re: hate the sin...\nOrganization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA\nLines: 30\n\nIn article <May.12.04.27.07.1993.9920@athos.rutgers.edu> scott@prism.gatech.edu (Scott Holt) writes:\n>Hate begets more hate, never love. Consider some sin. I\'ll leave it unnamed\n>since I don\'t want this to digress into an argument as to whether or not \n>something is a sin. Now lets apply our "hate the sin..." philosophy and see\n>what happens. If we truly hate the sin, then the more we see it, the \n>stronger our hatred of it will become. Eventually this hate becomes so \n>strong that we become disgusted with the sinner and eventually come to hate\n>the sinner.\n\nThough you can certaily assert all this, I don\'t see why it necessarily\nhas to be the case. Why can\'t hate just stay as it is, and not beget more?\nWho says we have to get disgusted and start hating the sinner. I admit\nthis happens, but I donlt think you can say it is always necessaily\nso.\n\nWhy can we not hate with a perfect hatred?\n\n>In the summary of the law, Christ commands us to love God and to love our \n>neighbors. He doesn\'t say anything about hate. In fact, if anything, he \n>commands us to save our criticisms for ourselves. So, how are Christians\n>supposed to deal with the sin of others? I suppose that there is only one\n>way to deal with sin (either in others or ourselves)...through prayer. We\n\nCertainly we should love even our enemies. Amos 5:15 says to hate the evil\nand love the good. This can\'t contradict Christ\'s teaching. I think we tie\nup both hate and love with an emotional attitude, when it really should be\nconsidered more objectively. Surely I don\'t fly into a rage at every sin\nI see, but why can I not "hate" it?\n\npaul duggan\n',
'From: scott@prism.gatech.edu (Scott Holt)\nSubject: hate the sin...\nOrganization: Georgia Institute of Technology\nLines: 33\n\n"Hate the sin but love the sinner"...I\'ve heard that quite a bit recently, \noften in the context of discussions about Christianity and homosexuality...\nbut the context really isn\'t that important. My question is whether that\nstatement is consistent with Christianity. I would think not.\n\nHate begets more hate, never love. Consider some sin. I\'ll leave it unnamed\nsince I don\'t want this to digress into an argument as to whether or not \nsomething is a sin. Now lets apply our "hate the sin..." philosophy and see\nwhat happens. If we truly hate the sin, then the more we see it, the \nstronger our hatred of it will become. Eventually this hate becomes so \nstrong that we become disgusted with the sinner and eventually come to hate\nthe sinner. In addition, our hatred of the sin often causes us to say and \ndo things which are taken personally by the sinner (who often does not even \nbelieve what they are doing is a sin). After enough of this, the sinner begins\nto hate us (they certainly don\'t love us for our constant criticism of their\nbehavior). Hate builds up and drives people away from God...this certainly\ncannot be a good way to build love.\n\nIn the summary of the law, Christ commands us to love God and to love our \nneighbors. He doesn\'t say anything about hate. In fact, if anything, he \ncommands us to save our criticisms for ourselves. So, how are Christians\nsupposed to deal with the sin of others? I suppose that there is only one\nway to deal with sin (either in others or ourselves)...through prayer. We\nneed to ask God to help us with our own sin, and to help those we love \nwith theirs. Only love can conquer sin...hatred has no place. The best way to\nlove someone is to pray for them. \n\n- Scott\n-- \nThis is my signature. There are many like it, but this one is mine.\nScott Holt \t\tInternet: scott@prism.gatech.edu\nGeorgia Tech \t\t\t\tUUCP: ..!gatech!prism!scott\nOffice of Information Technology, Technical Services\n',
'From: mserv@mozart.cc.iup.edu (Mail Server)\nSubject: Re: Eternal Marriage\nLines: 31\n\n\n hall@vice.ico.tek.com (Hal F Lillywhite) writes:\n>In article <May.11.02.39.09.1993.28334@athos.rutgers.edu> dhammers@pacific.? \n>(David Hammerslag) writes:\n> \n>>This paragraph brought to mind a question. How do you (Mormons) reconcile\n>>the idea of eternal marriage with Christ\'s statement that in the ressurection\n>>people will neither marry nor be given in marriage (Luke, chapt. 20)?\n> \n>[deletions]\n> \n>I think what Jesus is saying here (and it is clearest in Matthew\'s\n>and Mark\'s accounts) is that marriages will not be performed in the\n>resurrection. This goes along with our belief that if a person is\n>to marry at all it must be done on this earth... [deletions]\n\nThe problem with this view is that the topic under discussion in this\npassage *is* marriages that were performed on earth. Jesus\' words\nseem to me to indicate that He regards His response as the answer to their\nquestion about which earthly marriage would be valid after the resurrection.\nThis being the case, the most straightforward interpretation, in my\nopinion, is that marriage does not exist in the next life because those\nwho are raised are of a different nature than what we are now. Other-\nwise, why would Jesus offer "but are like the angels in heaven" as a\ncontrast to the idea of the resurrected marrying and being given in\nmarriage? We do not have angel-like natures now, but someday we shall,\nand when we do, our earthly marriages will be irrelevant. Or at least,\nthat\'s what I think Jesus is saying about the post-resurrection validity of \nmarriages performed on earth. Your mileage may vary. :)\n\n- Mark\n',
'From: ph14@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Pei Hsieh)\nSubject: Help needed: DXF ---> IFF\nNntp-Posting-Host: cunixb.cc.columbia.edu\nOrganization: Columbia University\nLines: 11\n\nHi -- sorry if this is a FAQ, but are there any conversion utilities\navailable for Autodesk *.DXF to Amiga *.IFF format? I\nchecked the comp.graphics FAQ and a number of sites, but so far\nno banana. Please e-mail.\n\nThanks.\n\n _______ Pei Hsieh\n (_)===(_) e-mail: ph14@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu\n ||||| "There\'s no such thing as a small job; just small fees."\n ||||| - anon., on being an architect\n',
"From: mmm@cup.portal.com (Mark Robert Thorson)\nSubject: Re: centi- and milli- pedes\nOrganization: The Portal System (TM)\nLines: 5\n\nI remember as a kid visiting my relatives on Kauai, and one of the things\nthat really frightened me was centipedes. I'd been told they were poisonous\nand infrequently one would pop up and scare the heck out of me. Once\none came out of the vacuum cleaner and it seemed like it was at least a foot\nlong and moving at 35 miles an hour!\n",
'From: Alan.Olsen@p17.f40.n105.z1.fidonet.org (Alan Olsen)\nSubject: some thoughts on Christian books...\nLines: 32\n\nDN> I think I took on this \'liar, lunatic, or the real thing\'\nDN> the last time. Or was it the time before? Anyway, let\nDN> somebody else have a turn. I can\'t debate it with a\nDN> straight face. Or perhaps for something completely\nDN> different we could just ridicule him or gather up all the\nDN> posts from the last two times we did this and email them to\nDN> him. As an aside, can you believe that somebody actually\nDN> got a book published about this? Must have been a vanity\nDN> press.\n\nI would recomend to anyone out there to visit your local Christian bookstore\nand become aware of the stuff they sell.\tQuite\ninteresting. Most of the stuff is far from intelectual. (About the level of\nChick pamphelets...) If it is a common fundie bookstore, it should have at\nleast one section about how you should hate Wiccans, Pagans, Catholics,\nMormons, rock musicians, and anyone else who is not as fanatical as them. \n(Hate for the "Love of God(tm)"!) It is even more interesting watching the\npeople who frequent such places. Very scary people. They hear voices from\n"God" telling them whatever they want to hear. (If they were not Christians,\nmost of them would be locked away. Maybe this is why Federal money was\nreduced to Mental institutions by the reagan administration...\tHad to get\ntheir religious leaders out...)\n\n"Where would Christianity be if Jesus got eight to fifteen years, with time\noff for good behavior?"\n\t New York State Senator James H. Donovan on Capitol Punishment\n\n Alan\n\n- "Beware! To touch these wires is instant death! Anyone found doing\n- this will be prosecuted!\n\n',
"From: doug@hparc0.aus.hp.com (Doug Parsons)\nSubject: Re: 48-bit graphics...\nOrganization: HP Australasian Response Centre (Melbourne)\nLines: 7\nX-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8.5]\n\n\nApollo (now HP) have a graphics board that does 80-bit graphics. When I \nheard that, I jumped. The answer isn't that it can do 100 trillion-trillion-\ntrillion colors. It actually does 10 planes of 8-bits (or 5 planes of 16\nbits, etc.) for very fast graphics.\n\ndouginoz.\n",
"From: Donald Mackie <Donald_Mackie@med.umich.edu>\nSubject: Re: Iridology - Any credence to it???\nOrganization: UM Anesthesiology\nLines: 13\nDistribution: world\nNNTP-Posting-Host: 141.214.86.38\nX-UserAgent: Nuntius v1.1.1d9\nX-XXDate: Tue, 27 Apr 93 17:38:21 GMT\n\nIn article <9304261811.AA07821@DPW.COM> Janice Price, jprice@dpw.com\nwrites:\n>How much can you tell about a person's health by looking into their\neyes?\n\nBy looking at the iris (iridology) - virtually nothing.\n\nLooking at the retina allows one to visualise the small blood\nvessels and is helpful in assessing various systemic diseases,\nhypertension and diabetes for example.\n\nDon Mackie - his opinion\nUM will disavow\n",
'From: maridai@athos.rutgers.edu\nSubject: Traveling Fatima (was Re: Consecration and Anniversary)\nLines: 48\n\nHello.\nI just like to share this rosary and other prayer propagation\npractice we do in my country. I am not sure if it is going on\nalso here in the US or any other country. In all these 4 1/2\nyrs. I\'ve been here in Illinois, USA, I have not encountered\nit. May I just call it "Traveling Fatima" since I don\'t know\nof an exact translation of what we call it in my native language.\n\nFor certain regions in a district in a town or city, an image/\nstatue of our Lady of Fatima is moved from one home (originating\nfrom owner) to another. This will stay with that family for\none (1) week and this family is required to pray the rosary and\nother prayers (prayer sheets accompany the image) to our Lady\nof Fatima. The move will be like a simple procession of folks\npicking up the image from its current \'home\' after \'departing\'\nprayers and proceeds to move it to the next home which has the\nprior notification about the move. There will be the \'receiving\'\nprayers at the next home to welcome our Lady of Fatima image\nthere. It does not have to be that only members of the family\nin that home who must pray to the image. They may invite others\n(or others/friends can invite themselves in ;^)) to participate\nduring prayer time in that \'new\' home everyday for one week.\nThis image is moved from one family to the next within the\nbounded region of that district, until it goes back to the owner\nof the image.\n\nThis is probably going on around there (Philippines) right now\n(or somebody correct me when exactly since I forgot) and every\nyear, this is part of our devotion to our Lady of Fatima.\n\nIt has been easy to facilitate this back home because it is more\nlikely that your next door neighbor is a Catholic and the image\nthen is just moved next door.\n\nI am thinking of starting something like it in the village where\nmy sister and her family lives. Most of our friends and neighbors\nthere are Catholics and practicing ones.\n\nI\'d like to know if there are any state/community laws that this \npractice will violate, whatsoever, before I go for it. Thank you \nfor any comments or help about this matter.\n\n\n\n\n\n-- \n-Marida (maridai@ecs.comm.mot.com)\n',
"From: wier@merlin.etsu.edu (Bob Wier)\nSubject: Adobe Photoshop Mailing List\nOrganization: East Texas State University\nLines: 16\n\nI've done a bit of looking, and havn't been able to \ncome up with a mailing list or newsgroup for users\nof Adobe Photoshop. Assuming I've just not missed\nit, I'll go ahead and see if there is enough interest\nto start a mailing list (and/or alt. newsgroup).\n\nDrop me a note if you might be interested in subscribing.\n\nTHANKS!\n\n--Bob Wier (NOT of the Grateful Dead :-)\n\n======== insert usual disclaimers here ============\n Bob Wier, East Texas State U., Commerce, Texas\n Historic Image Processing Project\n wier@merlin.etsu.edu (watch for address change) \n",
'From: frank@D012S658.uucp (Frank O\'Dwyer)\nSubject: Re: Theism and Fanatism (was: Islamic Genocide)\nOrganization: Siemens-Nixdorf AG\nLines: 164\nNNTP-Posting-Host: d012s658.ap.mchp.sni.de\n\nIn article <16BB7B863.I3150101@dbstu1.rz.tu-bs.de> I3150101@dbstu1.rz.tu-bs.de (Benedikt Rosenau) writes:\n#In article <1r0sn0$3r@horus.ap.mchp.sni.de>\n#frank@D012S658.uucp (Frank O\'Dwyer) writes:\n# \n#>|>#>#Theism is strongly correlated with irrational belief in absolutes. Irrational\n#>|>#>#belief in absolutes is strongly correlated with fanatism.\n# \n#(deletion)\n# \n#>|Theism is correlated with fanaticism. I have neither said that all fanatism\n#>|is caused by theism nor that all theism leads to fanatism. The point is,\n#>|theism increases the chance of becoming a fanatic. One could of course\n#>|argue that would be fanatics tend towards theism (for example), but I just\n#>|have to loook at the times in history when theism was the dominant ideology\n#>|to invalidate that conclusion that that is the basic mechanism behind it.\n#>\n#>IMO, the influence of Stalin, or for that matter, Ayn Rand, invalidates your\n#>assumption that theism is the factor to be considered.\n# \n#Bogus. I just said that theism is not the only factor for fanatism.\n#The point is that theism is *a* factor.\n\nThat\'s your claim; now back it up. I consider your argument as useful\nas the following: Belief is strongly correlated with fanaticism. Therefore\nbelief is *a* factor in fanaticism. True, and utterly useless. (Note, this\nis *any* belief, not belief in Gods)\n\n#>Gullibility,\n#>blind obedience to authority, lack of scepticism, and so on, are all more\n#>reliable indicators. And the really dangerous people - the sources of\n#>fanaticism - are often none of these things. They are cynical manipulators\n#>of the gullible, who know precisely what they are doing.\n# \n#That\'s a claim you have to support. Please note that especially in the\n#field of theism, the leaders believe what they say.\n\nIf you believe that, you\'re incredibly naive.\n\n#>Now, *some*\n#>brands of theism, and more precisely *some* theists, do tend to fanaticism,\n#>I grant you. To tar all theists with this brush is bigotry, not a reasoned\n#>argument - and it reads to me like a warm-up for censorship and restriction\n#>of religious freedom. Ever read Animal Farm?\n#>\n#That\'s a straw man. And as usually in discussions with you one has to\n#repeat it: Read what I have written above: not every theism leads to\n#fanatism, and not all fanatism is caused by theism. The point is,\n#there is a correlation, and it comes from innate features of theism.\n\nNo, some of it comes from features which *some* theism has in common\nwith *some* fanaticism. Your last statement simply isn\'t implied by\nwhat you say before, because you\'re trying to sneak in "innate features\nof [all] theism". The word you\'re groping for is "some".\n\n#Gullibility, by the way, is one of them.\n\nNo shit, Sherlock. So why not talk about gullibility instead of theism,\nsince it seems a whole lot more relevant to the case you have, as opposed\nto the case you are trying to make?\n\n#And to say that I am going to forbid religion is another of your straw\n#men. Interesting that you have nothing better to offer.\n\nI said it reads like a warm up to that. That\'s because it\'s an irrational\nand bogus tirade, and has no other use than creating a nice Them/Us \nsplit in the minds of excitable people such as are to be found on either\nside of church walls.\n\n#>|>(2) Define "irrational belief". e.g., is it rational to believe that\n#>|> reason is always useful?\n#>|>\n#>|\n#>|Irrational belief is belief that is not based upon reason. The latter has\n#>|been discussed for a long time with Charley Wingate. One point is that\n#>|the beliefs violate reason often, and another that a process that does\n#>|not lend itself to rational analysis does not contain reliable information.\n#>\n#>Well, there is a glaring paradox here: an argument that reason is useful\n#>based on reason would be circular, and argument not based on reason would\n#>be irrational. Which is it?\n#>\n#That\'s bogus. Self reference is not circular. And since the evaluation of\n#usefulness is possible within rational systems, it is allowed.\n\nO.K., it\'s oval. It\'s still begging the question, however. And though\nthat certainly is allowed, it\'s not rational. And you claiming to be\nrational and all.\n\nAt the risk of repeating myself, and hearing "we had that before" [we\ndidn\'t hear a _refutation_ before, so we\'re back. Deal with it] :\nyou can\'t use reason to demonstrate that reason is useful. Someone\nwho thinks reason is crap won\'t buy it, you see.\n\n#Your argument is as silly as proving mathematical statements needs mathematics\n#and mathematics are therfore circular.\n\nAnybody else think Godel was silly?\n\n#>The first part of the second statement contains no information, because\n#>you don\'t say what "the beliefs" are. If "the beliefs" are strong theism\n#>and/or strong atheism, then your statement is not in general true. The\n#>second part of your sentence is patently false - counterexample: an\n#>axiomatic datum does not lend itself to rational analysis, but is\n#>assumed to contain reliable information regardless of what process is\n#>used to obtain it.\n#>\n# \n#I\'ve been speaking of religious systems with contradictory definitions\n#of god here.\n# \n#An axiomatic datum lends itself to rational analysis, what you say here\n#is a an often refuted fallacy. Have a look at the discussion of the\n#axiom of choice. And further, one can evaluate axioms in larger systems\n#out of which they are usually derived. "I exist" is derived, if you want\n#it that way.\n#\n#Further, one can test the consistency and so on of a set of axioms.\n# \n#what is it you are trying to say?\n\nThat at some point, people always wind up saying "this datum is reliable" \nfor no particular reason at all. Example: "I am not dreaming".\n\n#>|Compared the evidence theists have for their claims to the strength of\n#>|their demands makes the whole thing not only irrational but antirational.\n#>\n#>I can\'t agree with this until you are specific - *which* theism? To\n#>say that all theism is necessarily antirational requires a proof which\n#>I suspect you do not have.\n#>\n# \n#Using the traditonal definition of gods. Personal, supernatural entities\n#with objective effects on this world. Usually connected to morals and/or\n#the way the world works.\n\nIMO, any belief about such gods is necessarily irrational. That does\nnot mean that people who hold them are in principle opposed to the exercise of\nintelligence. Some atheists are also scientists, for example.\n\n#>|The affinity to fanatism is easily seen. It has to be true because I believe\n#>|it is nothing more than a work hypothesis. However, the beliefs say they are\n#>|more than a work hypothesis.\n#>\n#>I don\'t understand this. Can you formalise your argument?\n# \n#Person A believes system B becuase it sounds so nice. That does not make\n#B true, it is at best a work hypothesis. However, the content of B is that\n#it is true AND that it is more than a work hypothesis. Testing or evaluating\n#evidence for or against it therefore dismissed because B (already believed)\n#says it is wronG/ a waste of time/ not possible. Depending on the further\n#contents of B Amalekites/Idolaters/Protestants are to be killed, this can\n#have interesting effects.\n\nPeculiar definition of interesting, but sure. Now show that a belief\nin gods entails the further contents of which you speak. Why aren\'t my \ncatholic neighbours out killing the protestants, for example? Maybe they \ndon\'t believe in it. Maybe it\'s the conjunction of "B asserts B" and\n"jail/kill dissenters" that is important, and the belief in gods is\nentirely irrelevant. It certainly seems so to me, but then I have no\naxe to grind here. \n\n-- \nFrank O\'Dwyer \'I\'m not hatching That\'\nodwyer@sse.ie from "Hens", by Evelyn Conlon\n',
'From: torsina@enuxhb.eas.asu.edu (Who???????)\nSubject: Islam = Satanic ???\nOrganization: Arizona State University\nLines: 80\n\nDear fellow Christians, \n\n\tI had a dinner last night with a bible study group which \nI am in. We had a discussion about the difference between Christianity\nand Islam. And I was shocked to hear that our bible study teacher\nsaid that Mohammad was indeed a prophet but of Satan. I said, "What??"\nI did not believe that, because I have some moslem friends who are\nso kind and nice, even sometimes I feel I wish I could be like them\n(in my point of view, they don\'t sin as much as I do). How come if they\nwere under Satan, they could have such personalities. \n\nTo tell you the truth, I don\'t know much about Islam.\nBut I know that they believe in God, they believe in the day of\njudgement.\n\t\n\tNow I\'m asking you what your opinions about Islam and \nits teaching. \n\nIMPORTANT : I do not want to discuss whether they are saved or not.\n\t I do not want to discuss about politic related to Islam.\n\nP.S: I post this in bit.listserv.christia, soc.religion.christian,\n and bit.listserv.catholic.\n\n\nIn Christ, our Lord, Smile.........\n\t\t\t\t\t Jesus loves you.......\n\tTabut Torsina\n\tTORSINA@ENUXHB.EAS.ASU.EDU\t \n\n[Let me start by saying that this is not the right newsgroup for a\ndiscussion of Islam, since there\'s a group for that. But I suspect\nthe point your teacher was making was not specifically about Islam.\nIndeed it\'s going to be impossible to see what he was getting at\nwithin your groundrules, since the question of whether non-Christians\nare saved is at the heart of it.\n\nThe classic Christian view, which I think most people believed until\nthe last century or so, was that Christianity (and of course Judaism)\nwas the only religion founded by God, and that all other religions\nworshipped false gods, and came from Satan. This is more or less a\ncorollary of another traditional view that no one but Christians (and\npossibly Jews) will be saved. This need not mean that there\'s no\ntruth in any other religion, nor that all of their members are\nintentionally Satanic. After all, in order to be an effective snare,\nSatanic alternatives would have to be attractive. Thus they might\ncontain all kinds of truth, wisdom and spiritual insights. They would\nbe missing only one thing -- knowledge of salvation through Christ.\nIf this is the background of your teacher\'s remarks -- and I suspect\nit is -- that means that a discussion of Islam is not necessarily\nrelevant. The point is not that there\'s anything intrinsically wrong\nwith it. It may teach a fine code of behavior, and its practitioners\nmay all be wonderful people. But if salvation requires being a\nfollower of Christ, it could still be a Satanic invention.\n\nThis is a reasonable deduction from the classic Protestant position.\nChristianity says that salvation isn\'t a matter of being kind and\nnice. Those are good things, and we should encourage them. But no\none is able to do them enough to be saved. Salvation requires Christ.\n(Please forgive me for doing this in Protestant terms. There\'s a\nCatholic equivalent to this that has similar implications, but in\ndifferent terms.) A religion may be quite attractive in all visible\nways. But if it doesn\'t have Christ, it\'s like a diet that consists\nof food that looks wonderful, tastes great, but is missing some\nessential food element so that you end up dying.\n\nLet me be clear that I am not specifically advocating this position.\nWhat I\'m trying to do is (as usual) to clarify issues. Indeed it is\nnow relatively uncommon for Christians to believe that all other\nreligions are Satanic. Most Christians regard such beliefs as an\nunfortunate vestige of the past. This is part of a general move\nwithin Christianity in the last century or so to a non-judgemental\nGod. Christians now find it hard to believe that God would allow\nanybody other than a really rotten person to end up in hell, and they\nfind it hard to envision that real malignant spiritual forces are at\nwork in the world doing things like creating superficially attractive\nalternatives to Christianity. Whether there is actually a sound basis\nfor the shift is a decision that people need to make for themselves.\n\n--clh]\n',
"From: abh@genesis.nred.ma.us\nSubject: Creating FLI/FLC Animation Files?\nOrganization: Genesis Public Access Unix +1 508 664 0149\nLines: 15\n\n\nI am looking for a means to add FLI and FLC animation creation\nto a Windows application. I was hoping for something along the lines\nof AAWIN or AAPLAY by Autodesk but for the creation of these delta \ncompressed animations. I have FLILIB but this seems to be coded for \nthe Large memory model of DOS with Turbo C. Ideally I would\nlike a DLL or Medium model object library, but would settle\nfor anything, really. I've seen other Windows apps with\nFLI/FLC creation, did they hack the FLILIB code into submission?\n\nAny pointers would be appreciated, please send mail directly\nto me and I will summarize the results if there is interest.\n\n- Andrew Hudson\nabh@genesis.nred.ma.us\n",
'From: stefanh@rahul.net (Stefan Hartmann)\nSubject: Genoa\'s WindowsVGA24 true color board\nOrganization: a2i network\nLines: 58\nNntp-Posting-Host: bolero\n\n\n FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE\n\nEditorial Contact:\nSingle Source Marketing: Myra Manahan (714) 545-1338\nGenoa Systems: Joseph Brunoli (408) 432-9090\n Neil Roehm (408) 432-9090/Technical\n\n\n Genoa Presents High Performance \n Video Graphics Accelerator\n\n SAN JOSE, Calif USA -- Genoa Systems Corporation announces \nWINDOWSVGA 24, a True Color 24-bit graphics accelerator card that \ndelivers up to 16.8 million colors at speeds faster than the \ncompetition. Plus it offers a full range of resolutions, high \nrefresh rates as well as unique proprietary performance features. \nThe card is available in both 16-bit ISA bus and 32-bit VESA Local \nbus versions (models 8500 AND 8500VL).\n With 1MB DRAM on board, the WINDOWSVGA 24 card offers \nmaximum resolution up to 1,280 x 1,024 and supports a refresh rate \nof 72Hz at 800 x 600 and resolution up to 1,024 x 768 \nnon-interlaced. Both models provide performance many times greater \nthan standard SVGA boards, yet conform to all current video \nstandards.\n WINDOWSVGA 24 features Genoa\'s FlickerFree(tm) technology, \nwhich eliminates screen flash and flicker to make viewing much more \ncomfortable. the cards also come with Safescan(tm), a utility \ndeveloped by Genoa to eliminate the black border around the screen \nand thereby provide 100-percent screen use for overscanning monitors.\n WINDOWSVGA model 8500VL takes full advantage of the speed \noffered by the new VESA Local bus technology. Most VL bus cards \nwill only handle data transfers up to 33MHz, but the 8500VL will \ntransfer data at the full speed of the CPU, up to 50MHz. Genoa is \nalso offering this card in the "TurboBahn" combination packaged \nwith their TURBOEXPRESS 486VL motherboard.\n Built around the Cirrus Logic GD-5426 GUI accelerator, \nWINDOWSVGA 24 offers the user an exceptional price/performance \nvalue. Genoa\'s advanced proprietary drivers act to "turbocharge" \nthe chip, thereby providing an affordable accelerator card with \npower and performance that surpass many of the more highly priced \nchip cards. The Genoa user will enjoy optimal speed and \nreliability for such programs as Windows, AutoCAD, AutoShade, 3D \nStudio, OS/2, OrCAD and more. Driver updates and product bulletins \nare available on Genoa\'s BBS at (408) 943-1231.\n Genoa Systems manufactures and markets an extensive line of \ngraphics adapters, motherboards, audio and multimedia cards for \nIBM-compatible personal computers. All products come with a two \nyear limited warranty on parts and labor. Genoa products are \ncurrently distributed worldwide through authorized distributors, \nresellers, VARs and systems integrators.\n For more information contact Joe Brunoli, Marketing \nManager, Genoa Systems at 75 E. Trimble Road, San Jose, Calif. \n95131; Tel: (408) 432-9090 or (800) 934-3662; Fax: (408) 434-0997.\n\n \n-- \nStefan Hartmann <stefanh@rahul.net>\n',
"From: Brandon.Vanevery@launchpad.unc.edu (Brandon Vanevery)\nSubject: Company info for graphics software\nKeywords: software, company\nNntp-Posting-Host: lambada.oit.unc.edu\nOrganization: University of North Carolina Extended Bulletin Board Service\nLines: 19\n\nWithin the next several months I'll be looking for a job in computer\ngraphics software. I'm in need of info on graphics software companies. \nI've checked the FAQ, the resource list, and siggraph.org, haven't found\nanything. The last Computer Graphics Career Handbook that I'm aware of,\nwas published in 1991. It has a list of 40 companies in it, but no\ntremendously specific information on any of them.\n\nCan people please steer me towards more current and in-depth informational\nresources? Thanks. I'll post a summary if there's interest.\n\nBrandon\n\n\n\n--\n The opinions expressed are not necessarily those of the University of\n North Carolina at Chapel Hill, the Campus Office for Information\n Technology, or the Experimental Bulletin Board Service.\n internet: laUNChpad.unc.edu or 152.2.22.80\n",
'From: boebert@sctc.com (Earl Boebert)\nSubject: .DWG/.GCD/3DD Formats Reference Needed\nOrganization: SCTC\nLines: 6\n\nCan some kind soul point me to references for the above formats?\n\nThanks,\n\nEarl\n\n',
"From: atae@spva.ph.ic.ac.uk (Ata Etemadi)\nSubject: Re: Krillean Photography\nNntp-Posting-Host: prawn.sp.ph\nOrganization: Imperial College of Science, Technology, and Medicine, London, England\nLines: 10\n\nIn article <C67G01.2J1@efi.com>, alanm@efi.com (Alan Morgan) writes:\n-| In article <C65oIL.436@vuse.vanderbilt.edu> \n-| alex@vuse.vanderbilt.edu (Alexander P. Zijdenbos) writes:\n-| Okay. Name one single effect that Kirlian photography gives that\n-| can't be explained by corona discharge.\n\nDozens of very funny postings to sci.image.processing \n[of which this may not be one :-].\n\n\tAta <(|)>\n",
'From: mary@uicsl.csl.uiuc.edu (Mary E. Allison)\nSubject: Re: Is MSG sensitivity superstition?\nOrganization: Center for Reliable and High-Performance Computing, University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign\nLines: 192\nNNTP-Posting-Host: uicsl.csl.uiuc.edu\n\nThese are MY last words on the subject\n\nFrom: lundby@rtsg.mot.com (Walter F. Lundby) writes:\n\n\n> As a person who is very sensitive to msg and whose wife and kids are\n> too, I WANT TO KNOW WHY THE FOOD INDUSTRY WANTS TO PUT MSG IN FOOD!!!\n\nSome people think it enhances the flavor. I personally don\'t think it\nhelps the taste, it makes me sick, so I try to avoid it.\n\n> From: dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer) writes:\n\n> Sez you. Such an effect in humans has not been demonstrated in any\n> controlled studies. Infant mice and other models are useful as far\n> as they go, but they\'re not relevant to the matter at hand. Which is\n> not to say that I favor its use in things like baby food--a patently\n> ridiculous use of the additive. But we have no reason to believe\n> that MSG in the diet effects humans adversely.\n\nWell, I know that MSG effects ME adversely - maybe not permanently but\nat least temporarily enough that I like to try to avoid the stuff.\n\n> From: kiran@village.com (Kiran Wagle) Writes:\n\n> If you don\'t like additives, then for godsake, \n> get off the net and learn to cook from scratch. Sheesh.\n\nEXCUSE ME!!!!!!!!!!!!\n\nWhy can\'t people learn to cook from scratch *ON* the net. I\'ve gotten\nLOTS of recipes off the net that don\'t use additives.\n\nIf you LIKE additives then get off the net and go to your local\nsupermarket, buy lots of packaged foods, and YOU get OFF THE NET!!\n\n> >IS IT TO COVER UP THE FACT THAT THE RECIPES ARE NOT VERY GOOD \n> >OR THE FOOD IS POOR QUALITY?\n> \n> Yes, and YOU buy it. Says something about your taste, eh?\n\nI don\'t!!\n\n> \n> And what happens when the companies forced to submit to your silly notions\n> go out of business because nobody wants to buy their overpriced bad food? \n> (Removing preservatives directly raises food costs by reducing shelf life.)\n\nHEY - I\'ll pay *MY* hard earned dollars to buy food that costs more\nbut does NOT have preservatives. I choose to speak with my pocketbook\nin many ways.\n\n> From: kiran@village.com (Kiran Wagle)\n\n> You have a good point. MSG is commonly used in soups, in bottled\n> sauces, in seasoning mixtures, and in the coating on barbecue potato\n> chips. \n\nNacho cheese Doritos, breading for MANY frozen fried foods (like fish\nand chicken), etc. ad naseum.\n\n> If MSG is really the problem, we should call this "barbecue potato\n> chip syndrome" or maybe "diner syndrome." \n\nOr the "and other natural flavorings syndrome." It\'s been a few years\nsince I\'ve bought anything labelled with "and other natural\nflavorings". \n\n> From: kiran@village.com (Kiran Wagle)\n\n> >THE REACTION CAME THE TIME THE MSG WAS IN THE FOOD\n> >THAT WAS THE ONLY DIFFERENCE\n> >SAME RESTAURANT - SAME INGREDIENTS!!!\n> \n> How do you know this?\n> \n> In order to demonstrate your claim, you would have had to supervise the\n> preparation on both occasions. Perhaps they used MSG both times, and lied\n> about it. Perhaps once they used something that had begun to spoil, and\n> produced some bizarre toxin that you\'re allergic to. \n\nWell, I had had similar reactions many times. That was when I really\nstarted WATCHING CAREFULLY - reaction to Doritos - hey guess what\'s in\nthere - reaction to Lawry\'s season salt - guess what\'s in THERE\n\nI\'ll give you a hint - I\'ve had enough problems with MANY MANY MANY\ndifferent products with MSG that I figured out one thing.\n\nUNLESS I plan on getting sick - I won\'t eat the stuff without my\nSeldane. And did I ever learn to read labels.\n\n> PLEASE note that I am NOT saying you are making it up, I am just\n> trying to point out that the situation is not always as simple as it\n> might seem. \n\nWhich was why I started checking EVERY time I got sick. And EVERY\ntime I got sick MSG was somehow involved in one of the food products.\nAnd consider there were no other similar ingredients (to my knowledge)\n- it might not please a medical researcher - but it pleased my own\npersonal physician enough for him to give me allergy medicine and MOST\nIMPORTANTLY it\'s enough proof for ME to avoid it (and enough proof\nthat my INCREDIBLY frugal fiance didn\'t flinch when I literally threw\nout or gave away all the food products in his pantry that had msg -\nand he always flinches when there\'s waste - but it was a simple\nexplanation - I won\'t eat this stuff, I WON\'T cook with this stuff, so\nI can either throw it out or give it away.)\n\n> From: pattee@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (Donna Pattee)\n\n> My guess was that the spice mix on the fries contained MSG, \n\nProbably Lawry\'s seasoning salt. I LOVE the way that tastes. \n\nI\'m not saying I NEVER consume ANYTHING with MSG. I\'ve noticed that I\nhave a certain tolerance level - like a (small) bag of bbq chips once\na month or so it not a problem - but that same bag of chips will\nbother me if I also had chicken bouillon yesterday and lunch at one of\nthe Chinese restaurants the day before. \n\n> From: kelley@healthy.uwaterloo.ca (Catherine L. Kelley)\n> >\n\n> All that\'s needed now is that final step, a double-blind study done\n> on humans. There isn\'t even an ethical question about "possible\n> harm", as this is a widely used and approved food additive.\n\nBut - some say that only 2% of the population has a problem with MSG -\nsome say it\'s more like 20% - but let\'s say that it\'s 5%. How many\npeople would have to be tested that would have a problem? Also - I\nKNOW I have a problem with it, and I wouldn\'t VOLUNTEER for a test.\nLike thanks guys but I don\'t WANT to get sick. Also - I\'m sure that\nmost people probably have varying degrees of sensitivities at\ndifferent times. If I have a cold I\'m MUCH more susceptible to the\nreaction than when I\'m healthy (as proven today - when I\'m stuffy but\nfor some silly reason I still gave in and decided to have the BBQ\nchips ;}).\n\n> From: kiran@village.com (Kiran Wagle)\n\n> Because too many of you (generic rhetorical \'you,\' not \'you Cathy\') go\n> around calling this "Chinese restaurant syndrome," thus suggesting to the\n> people you complain to that you experience this ONLY from Chinese food. \n> MSG is prevalent in a LOT more things than Chinese food--thats why I\n> suggested calling this "Diner syndrome." \n\nCathy doesn\'t - I haven\'t saved all my postings but I NEVER called it\n"chinese restaurant syndrome" and I NEVER stated I got it only from\nChinese food. I just thought it would be easiest to conduct my\npersonal test at a Chinese take out place that I knew would hold (or\nnot hold) the MSG. I can\'t call up whoever makes Doritos and ask them\nto make me ONE back of chips without MSG.\n\n> On the other hand, if one complains about potatoes from a mix, or\n> restaurant spice mixes, I\'m going to believe them, and if anyone says they\n> got (MSG-)sick after eating too many barbecue potato chips at a party, I\'m\n> REALLY going to believe them. \n\nWell, I believe I mentioned that in an earlier post \n\nLet\'s see you wrote this message at\n\nDate: 20 Apr 1993 00:09:31 -0500\n\nbut on \n\nDate: 19 Apr 1993 16:33:18 GMT\n\nI wrote:\n\n> >Has anyone had an MSG reaction from something *other than* a\n> >Chinese restaurant? \n\n> LOTS of times - that\'s why it was so hard for me to pin down. I\n> would probably have been EASIER if I\'d only have the reaction in a\n> certain type of restaurant but I\'ve had the reaction in Chinese\n> restaurants and Greek restaurants and Italian restaurants and Steak\n> places (I can tell you when a steak joint uses Accent to tenderize\n> their meat). \n\nOH - and just in case anyone thinks I\'m prejudice against either\nChinese food or Asian people - I\'m not going home to cook some Chinese\nfood for the guy I\'m marrying next week. Incidentally, his last name\nis Wu.\n\nSO STOP IT WITH THE FLAME MAIL\n\n--\nWhy does a woman work ten years to change a man\'s habits and then \ncomplain that he\'s not the man she married? \n -- Barbra Streisand\n\n Mary Allison (mary@uicsl.csl.uiuc.edu) Urbana, Illinois\n',
'From: nichael@bbn.com (Nichael Cramer)\nSubject: The Long Text of Acts [was: Variants in the NT Text]\nReply-To: ncramer@bbn.com\nOrganization: BBN, Interzone Office\nLines: 80\n\n[To the moderator: I posted this about a week ago but it never showed\n up (locally) on the net. If this has already\n actually been posted, please fill free to flush\n this copy. --N]\n\nFrom: db7n+@andrew.cmu.edu (D. Andrew Byler)\n>Does anyone now where an English translation of the long recension of\n>the Acts of the Apostles can be found?\n\n1] A english translation of this can be found in:\n "The Acts of the Apostles, translated from the Codex Bezae, with an\n introduction on its Lucan Origin and Importance", J. M. Wilson\n (London, 1923).\n\n2] Another work that might be useful is:\n "The Acts of the Apostles, a Critical Edition with Introduction and\n Notes on Selected Passages", Albert C. Clark (Oxford, 1933;\n reprinted 1970).\n\n(This is an edition of text of Acts that makes the assumption that the\ntext in Codex Bezae is the more authentic. I don\'t know if it\nactually contains an english translation or not.)\n\n3] Another useful that discusses many of the variants in detail is:\n "The Theological Tendency of the Codex Bezae Cantabrigiensis in\n Acts", Eldon J Epp (Cambridge, 1966).\n\n4] The most recent reference I found was an edition in French from the\nearly \'80s. (I can supply the reference if anyone\'s interested.)\n\n5] Now, many of the works are going to be difficult to find. So if\nyou\'re interested in examining the differences in the long recension\nan excellent (and easily obtainable) discussion can be found in:\n "A Textual Commentary on the Greek NT", Bruce Metzger (United Bible\n Society, 1971).\n\nMetzger\'s book serves as a companion volume to the UBS 3rd edition of\nthe Greek NT. It contains a discussion on the reasoning that went\nbehind the decisions on each of the 1440 variant readings included in\nthe UBS3. Furthermore, notes on an addition 600 readings are\nincluded in aTCotGNT (the majority of these occur in Acts).\n\nIn particular in the introduction to the section on Acts Metzger writes:\n "[An attempt was made] to set before the reader a more or less full\n report (with an English translation) of the several additions and\n other modifications that are attested by Western witnesses ...\n Since many of these have no corresponding apparatus in the\n text-volume, care was taken to supply an adequate conspectus of the\n evidence that supports the divergent readings." (p 272).\n\n>I understand that one of the early codexes, Vaticanus and Siniaticus has\n>this version of Acts. It would be interesting to know what the\n>differences are between the long and the short forms.\n\n6] Most of the copies of the text of Acts that we have (including the\nones in Vaticanus and Siniaticus) adher pretty closely to the shorter\n(or Alexandrian) version. The longer version to which you refer is\nusually called the "Western" version and its main witness is the Codex\nBezae (althought there are a few other rather fragmentary sources).\n\n7] As far as size, the difference is that in Clark\'s edition\n(mentioned above) the book of Acts contains 19,983 words whereas the\ntext edited by Westcott and Hort (a typical Alexandrian text) contains\n18,401 words; i.e. a difference of about 8-1/2%.\n\n8] To answer the obvious questions, no, there are no major revelations\nin the longer text nor major omissions in the shorter text. The main\ndifference seems to "expansion" of detail in the Western text (or, if\nyou prefer "contractions" in the Alexandrian). The Western text seems\nto be given to more detail. There are some interesting specific\ncases, but this probably not the place to go into it in detail.\n\n9] The discussion over the years as to which of these versions is the\nmore authentic has been hot and heavy. If there is anything\napproaching a modern consensus it is (i) that neither text represents\npurely the "authentic" version, (ii) each variant reading has to be\nexamined on its own merits however, (iii) the variant in the\nAlexandrian text is the "better" more often than not.\n\nN\n',
'From: kknudsen@vyasa.helios.nd.edu (keith knudsen)\nSubject: Wanted: Shareware graphics display program for DOS.\nDistribution: usa\nOrganization: University of Notre Dame, Notre Dame\nLines: 16\n\n\nI need a graphics display program that can take as a parameter the name of\nthe file to be displayed, then just display that image and then quit.\n\nAll of the other graphics display programs come up with a menu first or some\nother silliness.\n\nThis program is going to be run from within another program. I have lots of\nmemory and VGA color. Any graphics format will do. Has anyone heard of such\na beast?\n\n\t\t\t\t\tKeith\n\n--\nKeith Knudsen\nNotre Dame, IN\n',
'From: ohandley@betsy.gsfc.nasa.gov\nSubject: Schatzki Ring/ PVC\'s\nReply-To: ohandley@betsy.gsfc.nasa.gov\nOrganization: NASA Goddard Space Flight Center - Greenbelt, MD USA\nLines: 49\n\nCan anybody out there provide me with any advice concerning the\nfollowing two health problems:\n\nFirst, I was recently diagnosed (using a UGI series) as having a\nSchatzki ring and small sliding hiatal hernia. As I understand it,\nthe hernia is a relatively minor problem, though I do occasionally\nhave some nasty heartburn that is probably related to it. The Schatzki\nring, on the other hand, is causing swallowing difficulty. In particular,\nif I\'m not careful about eating slowly, and thoroughly chewing food,\nfood occasionally gets "stuck" before reaching my stomach. This results\nin a period of painful spasms as the food attempts to pass the obstruction.\nFortunately, the food has always managed to pass, but this is annoying,\nand causes frequent discomfort.\n\nMy doctor wants to "dilate" the ring using the\nfollowing procedure: use an endoscope to examine the esophagus and stomach\nfor any inflammation, then cut through the ring and dilate it by passing\nsome kind of balloon or something thru the esophagous. I would like to know\nif anyone out there has had this (or a similar) procedure done-if so,\nwas it painful, successful, etc. Also, can anyone comment on\nsafety, advisability, and success rate of this procedure? Has it become\na common procedure? I am kind of leery of having such an invasive-sounding\nprocedure performed for a (currently) non-threatening condition such as this,\nespecially considering the possible side effects (bleeding, perforation,\nreaction to anesthesia).\n\nThe second issue: for the past 3-4 years I have had a large number\nof "extra" heartbeats. In particular, during the past month or so there\nhas been a dramatic increase-a Holter monitor recently showed 50 PVC\'s in 24\nhrs, along with a few PAC\'s. (Many days, there are far more than this,\nhowever-five to ten per hour). All of them were isolated, and the cardiologist\nindicated that such a number was "normal". It certainly doesn\'t\nfeel normal. In the past there have also been a couple of episodes of\nextended "runs" of these beats, one of which lasted long enough to cause\nsevere light-headedness. I am relatively young (30-ish), thin and in good\nhealth (recent bloodtests were all normal), and do not smoke, use drugs or\ncaffeine, etc. I\'m willing to accept the extra beats as "normal", but don\'t\nwant to ignore them if they might be some kind of warning symptom. The number\nof PVC\'s seems to increase throughout the day, and with exercise (or something\nas simple as climbing some stairs). Also, if I get up after sitting or lying\ndown for a while, I tend to get a couple of extra beats. Could they possibly\nbe related to the esophagous problems? Both seemed to develop at about the\nsame time.\n\nThanks for any help/advice!\n\n\n===============================================================================\n===============================================================================\n',
"From: Eugene.Bigelow@ebay.sun.com (Geno )\nSubject: Re: The doctrine of Original Sin\nReply-To: Eugene.Bigelow@ebay.sun.com\nOrganization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.\nLines: 20\n\n[Eugen Bigelow writes:\n\n>It is also noteworthy to consider Jesus' attitude. He had no\n>argument with the pharisees over any of the OT canon (John\n>10.31-6), and explained to his followers on the road to Emmaus \n>that in the law, prophets and psalms which referred to him - the \n>OT division of Scripture (Luke 24.44), as well as in Luke 11.51\n>taking Genesis to Chronicles (the jewish order - we would say\n>Genesis to Malachi) as Scripture.\n\nYou should remember that in Adam's transgression, all men and women\nsinned, as Paul wrote. All of humanity cooperativley reblled against\nGod in Adma's sin, thus, all are subject to it, and the sin is\ntransmitted from generation to generation.\n\nAndy Byler]\n\nAndy, I did not write the above paragraph. I believe this is about the 3rd\ntime someone else's words have been attributed to me. I can't speak for\nthe rest of humanity, but I did not cooperatively rebell against anything.\n",
'From: mccullou@snake10.cs.wisc.edu (Mark McCullough)\nSubject: Re: Gulf War and Peace-niks\nOrganization: University of Wisconsin, Madison -- Computer Sciences Dept.\nLines: 45\n\nIn article <930421.121209.0e2.rusnews.w165w@mantis.co.uk> mathew <mathew@mantis.co.uk> writes:\n>jbrown@batman.bmd.trw.com writes:\n>> The problem with most peace-niks it they consider those of us who are\n>> not like them to be "bad" and "unconscionable". I would not have any\n>> argument or problem with a peace-nik if they held to their ideals and\n>> stayed out of all conflicts or issues, especially those dealing with \n>> the national defense. But no, they are not willing to allow us to\n>> legitimately hold a different point-of-view. They militate and \n>> many times resort to violence all in the name of peace.\n>\n><Yawn> Another right-wing WASP imagining he\'s an oppressed minority. \n>Perhaps Camille Paglia is right after all.\n\nPersonal attacks? \n\n>"I would not have any argument or problem with a peace-nik if they [...]\n>stayed out of all conflicts or issues"? I bet you wouldn\'t. You\'d love it. \n\nDeliberate misinterpretation of a persons statement? (By cutting out\nthe part of the statement, he tries to blunt the thrust of the sentence.\nHe never addresses the issue of extreemist peace people not holding true\nto their ideals.)\n\n>But what makes you think that sitting back, saying nothing about defense\n>issues, and letting people like you make all the decisions is anything to do\n>with "their ideals"?\n\nIgnoring the challenge? (He ignores the challenge that extreemists for\npeace tend to be quite insistent that everyone accept their ideals for\nthe world, and have even turned quite violent. (Witness, Chicago, summer\n1968)).\n\n>\n>mathew\n\nParanoia? (He assumes that anyone who argues against his viewpoint must\n"masturbate over Guns\'N\'Ammo.")\n\nFire up the Oven, it isn\'t hot enough!\n\n-- \n***************************************************************************\n* mccullou@whipple.cs.wisc.edu * Never program and drink beer at the same *\n* M^2 * time. It doesn\'t work. *\n***************************************************************************\n',
"From: Christopher.Vance@adfa.oz.au (Christopher JS Vance)\nSubject: Re: Mormon temples\nOrganization: Computer Science, University College, UNSW/ADFA, Canberra, Australia\nLines: 32\n\nIn article <May.14.02.11.39.1993.25225@athos.rutgers.edu> shellgate!llo@uu4.psi.com (Larry L. Overacker) writes:\n| Early in Church history, the catechumens were dismissed prior to the celebration \n| of the Eucharist. It WAS secret, giving rise to the rumors that Christians\n\nI have no problem with the idea that catechumens be dismissed before\nthe Eucharist. They were not considered qualified to participate.\n\n| were cannibals and all sorts of perverse claims. The actions were considered\n| too holy to be observed by non-Christians, as well as potentially dangerous\n| for the individual Christian who might be identified.\n\nDoes the dismissal in the early church mean that the eucharist was a\nsecret? I mean, was it:\n\n\tyou don't have to stay; from now on, only the membership can\n\tparticipate; you really don't have to hang around; yes, I know\n\tyou're obliged to keep up attendance to qualify, but now is an\n\texception, okay?\n\nor was it:\n\n\tyou may not stay; what happens next is secret\n\nWhen we have had reason to conduct business meetings after church,\nwe've made it clear that only members can vote. But we've always been\nhappy for non-members to stay and observe.\n\nDo you have evidence for intentional secrecy? (Other than rumours,\nwhich will always happen when you have an underclass doing things not\napproved of by those in power?)\n\n-- Christopher\n",
'From: mabusj@nason110.its.rpi.edu (Jasen M. Mabus)\nSubject: Looking for Brain in CAD\nNntp-Posting-Host: nason110.its.rpi.edu\nReply-To: mabusj@rpi.edu\nOrganization: Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Troy, NY.\nLines: 7\n\nJasen Mabus\nRPI student\n\n\tI am looking for a hman brain in any CAD (.dxf,.cad,.iges,.cgm,etc.) or picture (.gif,.jpg,.ras,etc.) format for an animation demonstration. If any has or knows of a location please reply by e-mail to mabusj@rpi.edu.\n\nThank you in advance,\nJasen Mabus \n',
'From: daniels@math.ufl.edu (TV\'s Big Dealer)\nSubject: Re: Deuterocanonicals, esp. Sirach\nOrganization: University of Florida\'s College of Liberal Arts and Sciences\nLines: 35\n\n\n\tWhat we call today the "Old Testament" was being written up to approx-\nimately 168 BCE, according to most modern scholars. Aside from the book of\nDaniel, the whole OT predates Alexander (the Great). These books were written\n(predominantly) in Hebrew.\n\tThere were also other books being written at about this time and later\nby Greek-speaking, or "Hellenistic", Jews. These books are those which are\nreckoned by many denominations as "Apocrypha".\n\tBefore the closing of the Writings, the third part of what is today\ncalled the canon, all of the books were in use by Jews of the day. However,\nthere were those who reckoned (based on Zech. 13) that prophecy had ceased.\nThis faction maintained that there were no true prophets in their day. They\nalso maintained that literature of a prophetic character could not be genuine\nteachings from God.\n\tBy the time of c.65 CE, another faction had entered the mess. Christians\nhad come in claiming that THEIR writings were also suitable to be read in\nsynagogues and used for worship. Therefore, the Palestinian Jewish leaders\ngot together and stated that the books written from the time of Ben Sira (Sirach)\nonward were not sacred writings. They justified this from Zech. 13. In\nparticular, they said, the writings of the Christians (called heretics) were\nnot inspired.\n\tAt about 90 CE, they codified things further by closing the canon in\nsomewhat of an official sense at the Council of Jamnia. A few books (Ecclesi-\nastes, Song of Songs, Esther) made it in after that date, but these were those\nwhich had been written prior to the official cut off point (the time of Ben\nSira) for inclusion that they had established in order to keep out the Christian\nand Hellenistic writings.\n\tJerome excluded the \'apocrypha\' because they were not in use by Jews\nof his day and because they were (except for Sirach) not found in Hebrew in his\ntime. His criterion for separating them from the other pre-Christian writings\nwas not based on \'inspiration\'.\n\n\tThere is plenty more to say, but I do not have time.\n\tThe passage you quote concerns the book (Rev.) in which it is found.\n\t\t\t\t\t\tFrank D.\n',
"From: draper@gnd1.wtp.gtefsd.com (PAM DRAPER)\nSubject: Re: Opinions on Allergy (Hay Fever) shots?\nOrganization: GTE Government Systems, Federal Systems Division, Chantilly, VA\nLines: 15\nDistribution: world\nReply-To: draper@gnd1.wtp.gtefsd.com\nNNTP-Posting-Host: gnd1.wtp.gtefsd.com\nNews-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.3-4 \n\nIn article <93115.120409ICBAL@ASUACAD.BITNET>, <ICBAL@ASUACAD.BITNET> writes...\n>>\n>You might look for an allergy doctor in your area who uses sublingual\n>drops instead of shots for treatment. (You are given a small bottle of\n>antigens; 3 drops are placed under the tongue for 5 minutes.) My\n\n\nThis homeopathic remedies. I tried the dander one for a month. 15 drops \nthree times a day. I didn't notice any change whats so ever. How long \nwere you using the drops before you noticed a difference?\n\nFor me this treatment is more expensive because my insurance will cover \ntradiitional medicine.\n\n\n",
'From: REXLEX@fnnews.fnal.gov\nSubject: ARSENOKOITAI: #4\nOrganization: FNAL\nLines: 258\n\ncontinuing part #4 (I think); used by permission,\n\nTHE SOURCE AND NT MEANING\nOF ARSENOKOITAI, WITH IMPLICATIONS\nFOR CHRISTIAN ETHICS AND MINISTRY\n\n James B. DeYoung\n\nW. Petersen\n\n More recently Wright\'s understanding has itself been questioned from a\ndifferent direction. In a brief 1986 study William Petersen found linguistic\nconfusion in using the English word "homosexuals" as the meaning of\narsenokoitai.[22] He faulted Wright and English Bible translaions for\nrendering it by "homosexuals" in I Cor 6:9 and I Tim 1:10.\n\n In a sense Petersen has coalesced Bailey, Boswell, and Scroggs into a\nsingle assertion that reiterates, in effect, the position of Bailey. He finds\n"homosexuals" unacceptable as a translation because it is anachronistic. "A\nmajor disjunction" exists between contemporary thought and terminology and the\nthought and terminolgy in Paul\'s time (187-88).\n\n What is this "disjunction"? He bases it on historical and linguistic\nfacts. Accordingly, ancient Greek and Roman society treated male sexuality as\npolyvalent and characterized a person sexually only by his sexual acts. \nVirtually all forms of behavior, except transvestism, were acceptable. \nChristianity simply added the categories of "natural" and "unnatural" in\ndescribing these actions. Ancient society know nothing of the categories of\n"homosexuals" and "heterosexuals," and assumed that, in the words of Dover\nquoted approvingly by Petersen, "everyone responds at different times to both\nhomosexual and to heterosexual stimuli. . ." (188). [23]\n\n In contrast to this, modern usage virtually limits the term "homosexual"\nto desire and propensity. K.M. Benkert, who in 1869 coined the German term\nequivalent to "homosexual," used it as referring to orientation, impluse or\naffectional preference and having "nothing to do with sexual acts" (189).\n\n Petersen then proceeds to cite the "Supplement to the Oxford English\nDictionary," which defines "homosexual" only as a propensity or desire with no\nmention of acts. Petersen\'s point is that by using "homosexuals" for\narsenokoitai, one wrongfully reads a modern concept back into early history\n"where no equivalent concept existed" (189). Consequently the translation is\ninaccurate because it "includes celibate homophiles,. . . . incorrectly exludes\nheterosexuals who engage in homosexual acts . . . [and]incorrectly includes\nfemale homosexuals" (19=89). Prior to 1869 there was no "cognitive structure,\neither inour society or in antiquity, within which the modern bifurcation of\nhumanity into \'homosexuals\' and \'hetersosexuals\' made sence" (189).\n\n The foregoing clarifies why Petersen feels that the translatio\n"homosexual" is mistaken. Yet is it possible that Petersen is the one\nmistaken, on both historical and linguistic or philological grounds? The next\nphases of this paper will critically examine Petersen\'s position.\n\n THE JUSTIFICATION FOR TRANSLATING\n ARSENOKOITAI BY "HOMOSEXUALS"\n\nHistorical Grounds\n\n A refutation of the foregoing opposition to the traslation of arsenokoitai\nby "homosexuals" begins with the historical and cultural evidence. Since\nvirtually everyone acknowledges that the word does not appear before Paul\'s\nusage, no historical settings earlier than his are available. Yet much writing\nreveals that ancient understanding of homosexuality prior to and contemporary\nwith Paul. The goal is to discover wheither the ancient s conceived of\nhomosexuality, particularly homosexual orientation, in a way similar to\npresent-day concepts. \n\n Peterson, Bailey, Boswell, and Scroggs claim that the homosexual\ncondition, desire, propensity, or inversion -whatever it is called- cannot be\npart of the definition of the term. They assert this either because the term\nis limited to acts of particular kind (Boswell, active male prostitutes; \nScroggs, pederasty) or because the homosexual condition was unknown in ancient\ntimes (Bailey; Petersen). The following discussion will show why neither of\nthese positions is legitimate. Attention will be devoted to the latter postion\nfirst with the former one being addressed below under "Linguistic Grounds."\n\n In regard to the latter position, one may rightfully ask, did not the\nhomosexual condition exist before 1869? Is it only a modern phenomenon? Yet if\nit is universal, as alleged today, it must have existed always including\nancient times, even though there is lack of sophistication in discussing it. \nIndeed, evidence show that the ancients, pre-Christian and Christian, not only\nknew about the total spectrum of sexual behavior, including all forms of\nsame-sex activity (transvestism included), but also knoew about same-sex\norientation or condition. Petersen admits (190 n. 10) that Plato in\n"Symposium" (189d-192d) may be a "sole possible exception" to ancient\ningnorance of this condition. He discounts this, however, believing that even\nhere "acts appear to be the deciding factor." However, this is a very\nsignificant exception, hardly worthy of being called "an exception," because of\nthe following additional evidence for a homosexual condition.\n\n THe "Symposium" of Plato gives some of the strongest evidence for\nknowledge about the homosexual condition. [24] Plato posits a third sex\ncomprised of a maile-female (androgynon ("man-woman"). Hence "original nature"\npalai physis, consisted of three kinds of human beings. Zeus sliced these\nhuman beings in half, to weaken them so that they would not be a threat to the\ngods. Consequently each person seeks his or her other half, either one of the\nopposite sex or one of the same sex. Plato then quotes Aristophances:\n\n Each of us, then, is but a tally of a man, since every one shows like\n a flatfish the traces of having been sliced in two; and each is ever\n searching for the tally that will fit him. All the men who are sections\n of that composite sex that at first was called man-woman are \n woman-courters; our adulterers are mostly descended from that sex,\n whence likewise are derived our mancourting women and adulteresses.\n All the women who are sections of the woman have no great fancy for men:\n they are incllined rather to women, and of this stock are the she-minions.\n Men who are sections of the male pursue the masculine, and so long as \n their boyhood lasts they show themselves to be sliced of the male by\n making griends with men and delighting to lie with them and to be\n clasped in men\'s embrasces; these are the finest boys and striplings,\n for they have the most manly nature. Some say they are shameless\n creatures, but falsely: for their behavior is due not to shamelessness\n but to daring, manliness, and virility, since they are quick to welcome\n their like. Sure evidence of this is the fact that on reaching maturity\n these alone prove in a public career to be men. So when they come\n to man\'s estate they are boy-lovers, and have no natural interest in\n wiving and getting children but only do these things under stress of\n custom; they are quite contented to live together unwedded all their days.\n A man of this sort is at any rate born to be a lover of boys or the \n willing mate of a man, eagerly greeting his own kind. Well, when\n one of them -whether he be a boy-lover or a lover of any other sort- \n happens on his own particular half, the two of them are wondrously \n thrilled with affection and intimacy and love, and are hardly to be \n induced to leave each other\'s side for a single moment. These are\n they who continue together throughout life, though they could not\n even say what they would have of one another (191d-192c) [25]\n\nShould these two persons be offered the opportunity to be fused together for as\nlong as they live, or even in Hades, Aristophanes says that each "would\nunreservedly deem that he had been offered just what he was yearning for all\nthe time: (192e).\n\n Several observations about this text are in order. Lesbianism is\ncontemplated, as will as male homosexuality (191e). "Natural interest" (ton\nnoun physei), (192b) refelects modern concepts of propensity or inclination. \nThe words, "born to be a lover of boys or the willing mate of a man: \n(paiderastes te kai philerastes gignetai), (192b) reflect the modern claims "to\nbe born this," i.e., as homosexual. The idea of mutuallity ("the two of them\nare wondrously thrilled with affection and intimacy and love," 192b) is\npresent. Aristophanes even speaks of "mutual love ingrained in mankind\nreassembling our early estate" (ho eros emphytos allelon tois anthropois kai\ntes archaias physeos synagogeus, 191d). The concept of permanency ("These are\nthey who continue together throughout life," 102c) is also present. Further\nmention of and/or allusion to permanecy, mutality, "gay pride," pederasty,\nhomophobia, motive, desire, passion, and the nature of love and its works is\nrecognizable.\n\n Clearly the ancients thought of love (homosexual or other) apart from\nactions. THe speakers in the Symposium argue that motive in homosexuality is\ncrucial; money, office, influence, etc. . . bring reproach (182e-183a, 184b). \nThey mention the need to love the soul not the body (183e). There are tow\nkinds of love in the body (186b) and each has its "desire" and "passion"\n(186b-d). The speakers discuss the principles or "matters" of love (187c), the\ndesires of love (192c) and being "males by nature" (193c). Noteworthy is the\nspeech of Socrates who devotes much attention to explaining how desire is\nrelated to love and its objects (200a-201c). Desire is felt for "what is not\nprovided or present; for something they have not or are not or lack." This is\nthe object of desire and love. Socrates clearly distinguishes between "what\nsort of being is love" and the "works" of love (201e). This ancient\nphilosopher could think of both realms -seaual acts as well as disposition of\nbeing or nature. His wors have significance for more than pederasty. [26]\n\n In summary, virtually every element in the modern discussion of love and\nhomosexuality is anticipated in the Symposium of Plato. Petersen is in error\nwhen he claims that the ancients could only think of homosexual acts, not\ninclination or orientation. Widespread evidence to the contray supports the\nlatter. [27]\n\n Biblical support for homosexuality inclination in the contexts where\nhomosexual acts are discribed adds to the case for the ancient distinction. In\nRom 1:21-28 such phrases as "reasoning," "heart," "becoming foolish," "desires\nof the heart." and "reprobate mind" prove Paul\'s concern for disposition and\ninclination along with the "doing" or "working" of evil (also see vv. 29-32). \nEven the catologues of vices are introdiced (I Tim 1:8-10) or concluded (I Cor\n6:9-11) by words describing what people "are" or "were," not what they "do." \nHabits betray what people are within, as also the Lord Jesus taught (cf. Matt.\n23:28). The inner condition is as important as the outer act; one gives rise\nto the other (cf. Mt 5:27).\n\n Petersen errs regarding other particulars too. Transvestism apparently\nwas accepted by the ancients. It was practiced among Canaaniteds, Syrian,\npeople of Asia Minor, as well as Greeks, according to S.R. Driver. [28] Only a\nfew moralist and Jewish writers are on record as condemning it. For example,\nSeneca (Moral Epistles 47.7-8) condemns homosexual exploitation that forces an\nadult slave to dress, be beardless, and behave as a woman. Philo also goes to\nsome length to describe the homosexuals of his day and their dressing as women\n(The Special Laws III, 37-41; see also his On the Virtues, 20-21, where he\njustifies prohibition of cross-dressing). Even the OT forbade the interchange\nof clothing between the sexes (Deut 22:5).\n\n Petersen is also wrong in attributing to Christianity the creating of the\n"new labels" of "natural" and "unnatural" for sexual behavior. These did not\nbegin with Paul (Rom 1:26-27) but go as far back as ancient Greece and even\nnon-Christian contemporaries used them. Plato, the TEST.NAPH., Philo, Josephu,\nPlutarch, and others used these words or related concepts. [29]\n\nLinguistic Grounds\n\nfootnotes\n___________________________\n22 W.L. Petersen, "Can ARSENOKOITAI Be Translated by \'Homosexuals\'? (I Cor\n6:9; I Tim 1:10)" VC 40 (1986): 187-91.\n23 K.J. Dover, Greek Homosexuality (Cambridge, Harvard Univ, 1978) 1 n. 1.\n24 We are conscious of the fact that Plato\'s writings may not reflect\nAthenian society, or that the speakers in "Symposium" may not reflect Plato\'s\nview. However, it is assumed that they do, and with this agrees Dover\n(Homosexuality 12) and other evidence cited below \n25 The translation is that of W.R.M. Lamb, Plato: Symposioum LCL (Cambridge:\nHarvard Univ, 1967) 141-143. Note the reference to "adulteress." If there is\na homosexual condition derived from birth or the genes, logically there must\nalso be an adulterous conditon derived from birth.\n26 Elsewhere in the Symposium we are told that it is the heavenly love to love\nthe male and young men (181c) but this must not be love for boys too young; \nthe latter should be outlawed (181d-e). Such love of youths is to be permanent\n(181d), lifelong and abiding (184a). Where homosexual love is considered a\ndisgrace, such an attitude is due to encroachments of the rulers and to the\ncowardice of the ruled (182d -an early charge of "homophobia"?). In Athens it\nwas "more honorable to love openly than in secret" (182d -an ancient expression\nof "coming out of the closet"). Mutality was present ("this compels lover and\nbeloved alike to feel a zealous concern for their own virtue," 184b).\n For Petersen to label the Symposium a "possible" exception to his position\nis inadequate and misrepresentative. It is a significant witness to Greek\nsociety hundreds of years before the time of Christ.\n27 Dover (Homosexuality 12, 60-68) finds homosexual desire and orientation in\nPlato\'s works (Symposioum and Phaedrus) and elsewhere. Philo writes of those\nwho "habituate themselves" to the practive of homosexual acts (The Special Laws\n3.37-42; cf. De Vita Contemplativa 59-63). Josephus says that homosexuality\nhad become a fixed habit for some (Against Apion 2.273-75) Clement of\nAlexandria on Matt. 19:12 writes the "some men, from birth, fhave a natural\naversion to a woman; and indeed those who are naturally so consitited do well\nnot to marry" (Miscellanies 3:1) It is addressed in Novella 141 of Justinian\'s\nCodex of laws (it referes to those "who have been consumed by this disease" as\nin need of renouncing "there plague," as well as acts). Pseudo Lucian (Erostes\n48) and Achilles Tatius (Leucippe and Clitophon II.38) speak of it. Finally\nThucydides 2.45.2 has: "Great is you glory if you fall not below the standard\nwhich nature has set for your sex."\n Boswell (Christianity 81-87) cites poets (Juvenal, Ovid), witers\n(Martial), statesmen (Cicero), and others who describe permanent, mutual\nhomosexual relationships, even marriages. Even emperors could be either\ngay-married (Nero) or exlusively gay (Hadrian), Boswell says. Scroggs\n(Homosexuality 28, 32-34) admits that both inversion and perversion must have\nexisted in the past. He discusses possible references to adult mutual\nhomosexual and lesbian relationships, but dismisses them (130-44).\n28 See specifics in S.R. Driver A critical and Exegetical Commentary on\nDeuteronomy (Edinburgh:1895) 250. He observes that the prohibition of\ncross-dressing in Deut. 22:5 is not a "mere rule of conventional propriety." \nSee also Dover, Homosexuality 73-76, 144.\n29 Plato in his last work, in which he seeks to show how to have a virtuous\ncitizen, condemned pederasty and marriage between men as "against nature" (para\nphosin)(Laws 636a-b; 636c; 836a-c; 838; 841d-e). According to TEST.NAPH\n3:4-5 the sodomites changed the "order of nature." THe Jewish writers, Philo\n(On Abraham 135-137) and Josephus (Ant. 1.322; 3.261, 275; Ag. Ap. 2.199;\n2.273, 275) label sexual deviation as "against nature." Finally,, first\ncentury moralist such as Plutarch (Dianlogue on Love 751c-e; 752b-c) spoke of\nhomosexuality as "against nature." Christians clearly did not invent the\nlabels "natural" and "unnatural". See J.B. De Young, "The Meaning of \'Nature\'\nin Romans 1 and Its Implications for Biblical Prosecriptions of Homosexual\nBehavior" JETS 31/4 (Dec 1988):429-41.\n',
'From: tgl+@cs.cmu.edu (Tom Lane)\nSubject: JPEG image compression: Frequently Asked Questions\nSummary: Useful info about JPEG (JPG) image files and programs\nKeywords: JPEG, image compression, FAQ\nSupersedes: <jpeg-faq_736398890@g.gp.cs.cmu.edu>\nNntp-Posting-Host: g.gp.cs.cmu.edu\nReply-To: jpeg-info@uunet.uu.net\nOrganization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon\nExpires: Mon, 14 Jun 1993 03:21:00 GMT\nLines: 1041\n\nArchive-name: jpeg-faq\nLast-modified: 16 May 1993\n\nThis FAQ article discusses JPEG image compression. Suggestions for\nadditions and clarifications are welcome.\n\nNew since version of 2 May 1993:\n * Added info on ImageViewer for NeXT.\n\n\nThis article includes the following sections:\n\n[1] What is JPEG?\n[2] Why use JPEG?\n[3] When should I use JPEG, and when should I stick with GIF?\n[4] How well does JPEG compress images?\n[5] What are good "quality" settings for JPEG?\n[6] Where can I get JPEG software?\n [6A] "canned" software, viewers, etc.\n [6B] source code\n[7] What\'s all this hoopla about color quantization?\n[8] How does JPEG work?\n[9] What about lossless JPEG?\n[10] Why all the argument about file formats?\n[11] How do I recognize which file format I have, and what do I do about it?\n[12] What about arithmetic coding?\n[13] Does loss accumulate with repeated compression/decompression?\n[14] What are some rules of thumb for converting GIF images to JPEG?\n\nSections 1-6 are basic info that every JPEG user needs to know;\nsections 7-14 are advanced info for the curious.\n\nThis article is posted every 2 weeks. You can always find the latest version\nin the news.answers archive at rtfm.mit.edu (18.70.0.226). By FTP, fetch\n/pub/usenet/news.answers/jpeg-faq; or if you don\'t have FTP, send e-mail to\nmail-server@rtfm.mit.edu with body "send usenet/news.answers/jpeg-faq".\nMany other FAQ articles are also stored in this archive. For more\ninstructions on use of the archive, send e-mail to the same address with the\nwords "help" and "index" (no quotes) on separate lines. If you don\'t get a\nreply, the server may be misreading your return address; add a line such as\n"path myname@mysite" to specify your correct e-mail address to reply to.\n\n\n----------\n\n\n[1] What is JPEG?\n\nJPEG (pronounced "jay-peg") is a standardized image compression mechanism.\nJPEG stands for Joint Photographic Experts Group, the original name of the\ncommittee that wrote the standard. JPEG is designed for compressing either\nfull-color or gray-scale digital images of "natural", real-world scenes.\nIt does not work so well on non-realistic images, such as cartoons or line\ndrawings.\n\nJPEG does not handle black-and-white (1-bit-per-pixel) images, nor does it\nhandle motion picture compression. Standards for compressing those types\nof images are being worked on by other committees, named JBIG and MPEG\nrespectively.\n\nJPEG is "lossy", meaning that the image you get out of decompression isn\'t\nquite identical to what you originally put in. The algorithm achieves much\nof its compression by exploiting known limitations of the human eye, notably\nthe fact that small color details aren\'t perceived as well as small details\nof light-and-dark. Thus, JPEG is intended for compressing images that will\nbe looked at by humans. If you plan to machine-analyze your images, the\nsmall errors introduced by JPEG may be a problem for you, even if they are\ninvisible to the eye.\n\nA useful property of JPEG is that the degree of lossiness can be varied by\nadjusting compression parameters. This means that the image maker can trade\noff file size against output image quality. You can make *extremely* small\nfiles if you don\'t mind poor quality; this is useful for indexing image\narchives, making thumbnail views or icons, etc. etc. Conversely, if you\naren\'t happy with the output quality at the default compression setting, you\ncan jack up the quality until you are satisfied, and accept lesser compression.\n\n\n[2] Why use JPEG?\n\nThere are two good reasons: to make your image files smaller, and to store\n24-bit-per-pixel color data instead of 8-bit-per-pixel data.\n\nMaking image files smaller is a big win for transmitting files across\nnetworks and for archiving libraries of images. Being able to compress a\n2 Mbyte full-color file down to 100 Kbytes or so makes a big difference in\ndisk space and transmission time! (If you are comparing GIF and JPEG, the\nsize ratio is more like four to one. More details below.)\n\nIf your viewing software doesn\'t support JPEG directly, you\'ll have to\nconvert JPEG to some other format for viewing or manipulating images. Even\nwith a JPEG-capable viewer, it takes longer to decode and view a JPEG image\nthan to view an image of a simpler format (GIF, for instance). Thus, using\nJPEG is essentially a time/space tradeoff: you give up some time in order to\nstore or transmit an image more cheaply.\n\nIt\'s worth noting that when network or phone transmission is involved, the\ntime savings from transferring a shorter file can be much greater than the\nextra time to decompress the file. I\'ll let you do the arithmetic yourself.\n\nThe other reason why JPEG will gradually replace GIF as a standard Usenet\nposting format is that JPEG can store full color information: 24 bits/pixel\n(16 million colors) instead of 8 or less (256 or fewer colors). If you have\nonly 8-bit display hardware then this may not seem like much of an advantage\nto you. Within a couple of years, though, 8-bit GIF will look as obsolete as\nblack-and-white MacPaint format does today. Furthermore, for reasons detailed\nin section 7, JPEG is far more useful than GIF for exchanging images among\npeople with widely varying color display hardware. Hence JPEG is considerably\nmore appropriate than GIF for use as a Usenet posting standard.\n\n\n[3] When should I use JPEG, and when should I stick with GIF?\n\nJPEG is *not* going to displace GIF entirely; for some types of images,\nGIF is superior in image quality, file size, or both. One of the first\nthings to learn about JPEG is which kinds of images to apply it to.\n\nAs a rule of thumb, JPEG is superior to GIF for storing full-color or\ngray-scale images of "realistic" scenes; that means scanned photographs and\nsimilar material. JPEG is superior even if you don\'t have 24-bit display\nhardware, and it is a LOT superior if you do. (See section 7 for details.)\n\nGIF does significantly better on images with only a few distinct colors,\nsuch as cartoons and line drawings. In particular, large areas of pixels\nthat are all *exactly* the same color are compressed very efficiently indeed\nby GIF. JPEG can\'t squeeze these files as much as GIF does without\nintroducing visible defects. This sort of image is best kept in GIF form.\n(In particular, single-color borders are quite cheap in GIF files, but they\nshould be avoided in JPEG files.)\n\nJPEG also has a hard time with very sharp edges: a row of pure-black pixels\nadjacent to a row of pure-white pixels, for example. Sharp edges tend to\ncome out blurred unless you use a very high quality setting. Again, this\nsort of thing is not found in scanned photographs, but it shows up fairly\noften in GIF files: borders, overlaid text, etc. The blurriness is\nparticularly objectionable with text that\'s only a few pixels high.\nIf you have a GIF with a lot of small-size overlaid text, don\'t JPEG it.\n\nComputer-drawn images (ray-traced scenes, for instance) usually fall between\nscanned images and cartoons in terms of complexity. The more complex and\nsubtly rendered the image, the more likely that JPEG will do well on it.\nThe same goes for semi-realistic artwork (fantasy drawings and such).\n\nPlain black-and-white (two level) images should never be converted to JPEG.\nYou need at least about 16 gray levels before JPEG is useful for gray-scale\nimages. It should also be noted that GIF is lossless for gray-scale images\nof up to 256 levels, while JPEG is not.\n\nIf you have an existing library of GIF images, you may wonder whether you\nshould convert them to JPEG. You will lose a little image quality if you do.\n(Section 7, which argues that JPEG image quality is superior to GIF, only\napplies if both formats start from a full-color original. If you start from\na GIF, you\'ve already irretrievably lost a great deal of information; JPEG\ncan only make things worse.) However, the disk space savings may justify\nconverting anyway. This is a decision you\'ll have to make for yourself.\nIf you do convert a GIF library to JPEG, see section 14 for hints. Be\nprepared to leave some images in GIF format, since some GIFs will not\nconvert well.\n\n\n[4] How well does JPEG compress images?\n\nPretty darn well. Here are some sample file sizes for an image I have\nhandy, a 727x525 full-color image of a ship in a harbor. The first three\nfiles are for comparison purposes; the rest were created with the free JPEG\nsoftware described in section 6B.\n\nFile\t Size in bytes\t\tComments\n\nship.ppm\t1145040 Original file in PPM format (no compression; 24 bits\n\t\t\t or 3 bytes per pixel, plus a few bytes overhead)\nship.ppm.Z\t 963829 PPM file passed through Unix compress\n\t\t\t compress doesn\'t accomplish a lot, you\'ll note.\n\t\t\t Other text-oriented compressors give similar results.\nship.gif\t 240438 Converted to GIF with ppmquant -fs 256 | ppmtogif\n\t\t\t Most of the savings is the result of losing color\n\t\t\t info: GIF saves 8 bits/pixel, not 24. (See sec. 7.)\n\nship.jpg95\t 155622 cjpeg -Q 95 (highest useful quality setting)\n\t\t\t This is indistinguishable from the 24-bit original,\n\t\t\t at least to my nonprofessional eyeballs.\nship.jpg75\t 58009 cjpeg -Q 75 (default setting)\n\t\t\t You have to look mighty darn close to distinguish this\n\t\t\t from the original, even with both on-screen at once.\nship.jpg50\t 38406 cjpeg -Q 50\n\t\t\t This has slight defects; if you know what to look\n\t\t\t for, you could tell it\'s been JPEGed without seeing\n\t\t\t the original. Still as good image quality as many\n\t\t\t recent postings in Usenet pictures groups.\nship.jpg25\t 25192 cjpeg -Q 25\n\t\t\t JPEG\'s characteristic "blockiness" becomes apparent\n\t\t\t at this setting (djpeg -blocksmooth helps some).\n\t\t\t Still, I\'ve seen plenty of Usenet postings that were\n\t\t\t of poorer image quality than this.\nship.jpg5o\t 6587 cjpeg -Q 5 -optimize (-optimize cuts table overhead)\n\t\t\t Blocky, but perfectly satisfactory for preview or\n\t\t\t indexing purposes. Note that this file is TINY:\n\t\t\t the compression ratio from the original is 173:1 !\n\nIn this case JPEG can make a file that\'s a factor of four or five smaller\nthan a GIF of comparable quality (the -Q 75 file is every bit as good as the\nGIF, better if you have a full-color display). This seems to be a typical\nratio for real-world scenes.\n\n\n[5] What are good "quality" settings for JPEG?\n\nMost JPEG compressors let you pick a file size vs. image quality tradeoff by\nselecting a quality setting. There seems to be widespread confusion about\nthe meaning of these settings. "Quality 95" does NOT mean "keep 95% of the\ninformation", as some have claimed. The quality scale is purely arbitrary;\nit\'s not a percentage of anything.\n\nThe name of the game in using JPEG is to pick the lowest quality setting\n(smallest file size) that decompresses into an image indistinguishable from\nthe original. This setting will vary from one image to another and from one\nobserver to another, but here are some rules of thumb.\n\nThe default quality setting (-Q 75) is very often the best choice. This\nsetting is about the lowest you can go without expecting to see defects in a\ntypical image. Try -Q 75 first; if you see defects, then go up. Except for\nexperimental purposes, never go above -Q 95; saying -Q 100 will produce a\nfile two or three times as large as -Q 95, but of hardly any better quality.\n\nIf the image was less than perfect quality to begin with, you might be able to\ngo down to -Q 50 without objectionable degradation. On the other hand, you\nmight need to go to a HIGHER quality setting to avoid further degradation.\nThe second case seems to apply much of the time when converting GIFs to JPEG.\nThe default -Q 75 is about right for compressing 24-bit images, but -Q 85 to\n95 is usually better for converting GIFs (see section 14 for more info).\n\nIf you want a very small file (say for preview or indexing purposes) and are\nprepared to tolerate large defects, a -Q setting in the range of 5 to 10 is\nabout right. -Q 2 or so may be amusing as "op art".\n\n(Note: the quality settings discussed in this article apply to the free JPEG\nsoftware described in section 6B, and to many programs based on it. Other\nJPEG implementations, such as Image Alchemy, may use a completely different\nquality scale. Some programs don\'t even provide a numeric scale, just\n"high"/"medium"/"low"-style choices.)\n\n\n[6] Where can I get JPEG software?\n\nMost of the programs described in this section are available by FTP.\nIf you don\'t know how to use FTP, see the FAQ article "How to find sources".\n(If you don\'t have direct access to FTP, read about ftpmail servers in the\nsame article.) That article appears regularly in news.answers, or you can\nget it by sending e-mail to mail-server@rtfm.mit.edu with\n"send usenet/news.answers/finding-sources" in the body. The "Anonymous FTP\nList FAQ" may also be helpful --- it\'s usenet/news.answers/ftp-list/faq in\nthe news.answers archive.\n\nNOTE: this list changes constantly. If you have a copy more than a couple\nmonths old, get the latest JPEG FAQ from the news.answers archive.\n\n\n[6A] If you are looking for "canned" software, viewers, etc:\n\nThe first part of this list is system-specific programs that only run on one\nkind of system. If you don\'t see what you want for your machine, check out\nthe portable JPEG software described at the end of the list. Note that this\nlist concentrates on free and shareware programs that you can obtain over\nInternet; but some commercial programs are listed too.\n\nX Windows:\n\nXV (shareware, $25) is an excellent viewer for JPEG, GIF, and many other\nimage formats. It can also do format conversion and some simple image\nmanipulations. It\'s available for FTP from export.lcs.mit.edu (18.24.0.12),\nfile contrib/xv-3.00.tar.Z. Version 3.00 is a major upgrade with support\nfor 24-bit displays and many other improvements; however, it is brand new\nand still has some bugs lurking. If you prefer not to be on the bleeding\nedge, stick with version 2.21, also available from export. Note that\nversion 2.21 is not a good choice if you have a 24-bit display (you\'ll get\nonly 8-bit color), nor for converting 24-bit images to JPEG. But 2.21 works\nfine for converting GIF and other 8-bit images to JPEG. CAUTION: there is a\nglitch in version 2.21: be sure to check the "save at normal size" checkbox\nwhen saving a JPEG file, or the file will be blurry.\n\nAnother good choice for X Windows is John Cristy\'s free ImageMagick package,\nalso available from export.lcs.mit.edu, file contrib/ImageMagick.tar.Z.\nThis package handles many image processing and conversion tasks. The\nImageMagick viewer handles 24-bit displays correctly; for colormapped\ndisplays, it does better (though slower) color quantization than XV or the\nbasic free JPEG software.\n\nBoth of the above are large, complex packages. If you just want a simple\nimage viewer, try xloadimage or xli. xloadimage supports JPEG in its latest\nrelease, 3.03. xloadimage is free and available from export.lcs.mit.edu,\nfile contrib/xloadimage-3.03.tar.Z. xli is a variant version of xloadimage,\nsaid by its fans to be somewhat faster and more robust than the original.\n(The current xli is indeed faster and more robust than the current\nxloadimage, at least with respect to JPEG files, because it has the IJG v4\ndecoder while xloadimage 3.03 is using a hacked-over v1. The next\nxloadimage release will fix this.) xli is also free and available from\nexport.lcs.mit.edu, file contrib/xli.1.14.tar.Z. Both programs are said\nto do the right thing with 24-bit displays.\n\n\nMS-DOS:\n\nThis covers plain DOS; for Windows or OS/2 programs, see the next headings.\n\nOne good choice is Eric Praetzel\'s free DVPEG, which views JPEG and GIF files.\nThe current version, 2.5, is available by FTP from sunee.uwaterloo.ca\n(129.97.50.50), file pub/jpeg/viewers/dvpeg25.zip. This is a good basic\nviewer that works on either 286 or 386/486 machines. The user interface is\nnot flashy, but it\'s functional.\n\nAnother freeware JPEG/GIF/TGA viewer is Mohammad Rezaei\'s Hiview. The\ncurrent version, 1.2, is available from Simtel20 and mirror sites (see NOTE\nbelow), file msdos/graphics/hv12.zip. Hiview requires a 386 or better CPU\nand a VCPI-compatible memory manager (QEMM386 and 386MAX work; Windows and\nOS/2 do not). Hiview is currently the fastest viewer for images that are no\nbigger than your screen. For larger images, it scales the image down to fit\non the screen (rather than using panning/scrolling as most viewers do).\nYou may or may not prefer this approach, but there\'s no denying that it\nslows down loading of large images considerably. Note: installation is a\nbit tricky; read the directions carefully!\n\nA shareware alternative is ColorView for DOS ($30). This is easier to\ninstall than either of the two freeware alternatives. Its user interface is\nalso much spiffier-looking, although personally I find it harder to use ---\nmore keystrokes, inconsistent behavior. It is faster than DVPEG but a\nlittle slower than Hiview, at least on my hardware. (For images larger than\nscreen size, DVPEG and ColorView seem to be about the same speed, and both\nare faster than Hiview.) The current version is 2.1, available from\nSimtel20 and mirror sites (see NOTE below), file msdos/graphics/dcview21.zip.\nRequires a VESA graphics driver; if you don\'t have one, look in vesadrv2.zip\nor vesa-tsr.zip from the same directory. (Many recent PCs have a built-in\nVESA driver, so don\'t try to load a VESA driver unless ColorView complains\nthat the driver is missing.)\n\nA second shareware alternative is Fullview, which has been kicking around\nthe net for a while, but I don\'t know any stable archive location for it.\nThe current (rather old) version is inferior to the above viewers anyway.\nThe author tells me that a new version of Fullview will be out shortly\nand it will be submitted to the Simtel20 archives at that time.\n\nThe well-known GIF viewer CompuShow (CSHOW) supports JPEG in its latest\nrevision, 8.60a. However, CSHOW\'s JPEG implementation isn\'t very good:\nit\'s slow (about half the speed of the above viewers) and image quality is\npoor except on hi-color displays. Too bad ... it\'d have been nice to see a\ngood JPEG capability in CSHOW. Shareware, $25. Available from Simtel20 and\nmirror sites (see NOTE below), file msdos/gif/cshw860a.zip.\n\nDue to the remarkable variety of PC graphics hardware, any one of these\nviewers might not work on your particular machine. If you can\'t get *any*\nof them to work, you\'ll need to use one of the following conversion programs\nto convert JPEG to GIF, then view with your favorite GIF viewer. (If you\nhave hi-color hardware, don\'t use GIF as the intermediate format; try to\nfind a TARGA-capable viewer instead. VPIC5.0 is reputed to do the right\nthing with hi-color displays.)\n\nThe Independent JPEG Group\'s free JPEG converters are FTPable from Simtel20\nand mirror sites (see NOTE below), file msdos/graphics/jpeg4.zip (or\njpeg4386.zip if you have a 386 and extended memory). These files are DOS\ncompilations of the free source code described in section 6B; they will\nconvert JPEG to and from GIF, Targa, and PPM formats.\n\nHandmade Software offers free JPEG<=>GIF conversion tools, GIF2JPG/JPG2GIF.\nThese are slow and are limited to conversion to and from GIF format; in\nparticular, you can\'t get 24-bit color output from a JPEG. The major\nadvantage of these tools is that they will read and write HSI\'s proprietary\nJPEG format as well as the Usenet-standard JFIF format. Since HSI-format\nfiles are rather widespread on BBSes, this is a useful capability. Version\n2.0 of these tools is free (prior versions were shareware). Get it from\nSimtel20 and mirror sites (see NOTE below), file msdos/graphics/gif2jpg2.zip.\nNOTE: do not use HSI format for files to be posted on Internet, since it is\nnot readable on non-PC platforms.\n\nHandmade Software also has a shareware image conversion and manipulation\npackage, Image Alchemy. This will translate JPEG files (both JFIF and HSI\nformats) to and from many other image formats. It can also display images.\nA demo version of Image Alchemy version 1.6.2 is available from Simtel20 and\nmirror sites (see NOTE below), file msdos/graphics/alch162.zip.\n\nNOTE ABOUT SIMTEL20: The Internet\'s key archive site for PC-related programs\nis Simtel20, full name wsmr-simtel20.army.mil (192.88.110.20). Simtel20\nruns a non-Unix system with weird directory names; where this document\nrefers to directory (eg) "msdos/graphics" at Simtel20, that really means\n"pd1:<msdos.graphics>". If you are not physically on MILnet, you should\nexpect rather slow FTP transfer rates from Simtel20. There are several\nInternet sites that maintain copies (mirrors) of the Simtel20 archives;\nmost FTP users should go to one of the mirror sites instead. A popular USA\nmirror site is oak.oakland.edu (141.210.10.117), which keeps Simtel20 files\nin (eg) "/pub/msdos/graphics". If you have no FTP capability, you can\nretrieve files from Simtel20 by e-mail; see informational postings in\ncomp.archives.msdos.announce to find out how. If you are outside the USA,\nconsult the same newsgroup to learn where your nearest Simtel20 mirror is.\n\nMicrosoft Windows:\n\nThere are several Windows programs capable of displaying JPEG images.\n(Windows viewers are generally slower than DOS viewers on the same hardware,\ndue to Windows\' system overhead. Note that you can run the DOS conversion\nprograms described above inside a Windows DOS window.)\n\nThe newest entry is WinECJ, which is free and EXTREMELY fast. Version 1.0\nis available from ftp.rahul.net, file /pub/bryanw/pc/jpeg/wecj.zip.\nRequires Windows 3.1 and 256-or-more-colors mode. This is a no-frills\nviewer with the bad habit of hogging the machine completely while it\ndecodes; and the image quality is noticeably worse than other viewers.\nBut it\'s so fast you\'ll use it anyway, at least for previewing...\n\nJView is freeware, fairly fast, has good on-line help, and can write out the\ndecompressed image in Windows BMP format; but it can\'t create new JPEG\nfiles, and it doesn\'t view GIFs. JView also lacks some other useful\nfeatures of the shareware viewers (such as brightness adjustment), but it\'s\nan excellent basic viewer. The current version, 0.9, is available from\nftp.cica.indiana.edu (129.79.20.84), file pub/pc/win3/desktop/jview090.zip.\n(Mirrors of this archive can be found at some other Internet sites,\nincluding wuarchive.wustl.edu.)\n\nWinJPEG (shareware, $20) displays JPEG,GIF,Targa,TIFF, and BMP image files;\nit can write all of these formats too, so it can be used as a converter.\nIt has some other nifty features including color-balance adjustment and\nslideshow. The current version is 2.1, available from Simtel20 and mirror\nsites (see NOTE above), file msdos/windows3/winjp210.zip. (This is a slow\n286-compatible version; if you register, you\'ll get the 386-only version,\nwhich is roughly 25% faster.)\n\nColorView is another shareware entry ($30). This was an early and promising\ncontender, but it has not been updated in some time, and at this point it\nhas no real advantages over WinJPEG. If you want to try it anyway, the\ncurrent version is 0.97, available from ftp.cica.indiana.edu, file\npub/pc/win3/desktop/cview097.zip. (I understand that a new version will\nbe appearing once the authors are finished with ColorView for DOS.)\n\nDVPEG (see DOS heading) also works under Windows, but only in full-screen\nmode, not in a window.\n\nOS/2:\n\nThe following files are available from hobbes.nmsu.edu (128.123.35.151).\nNote: check /pub/uploads for more recent versions --- the hobbes moderator\nis not very fast about moving uploads into their permanent directories.\n/pub/os2/2.x/graphics/jpegv4.zip\n 32-bit version of free IJG conversion programs, version 4.\n/pub/os2/all/graphics/jpeg4-16.zip\n 16-bit version of same, for OS/2 1.x.\n/pub/os2/2.x/graphics/imgarc12.zip\n Image Archiver 1.02: image conversion/viewing with PM graphical interface.\n Strong on conversion functions, viewing is a bit weaker. Shareware, $15.\n/pub/os2/2.x/graphics/pmjpeg11.zip\n PMJPEG 1.1: OS/2 2.x port of WinJPEG, a popular viewer for Windows\n (see description in Windows section). Shareware, $20.\n/pub/os2/2.x/graphics/pmview85.zip\n PMView 0.85: JPEG/GIF/BMP/Targa/PCX viewer. GIF viewing very fast,\n JPEG viewing roughly the same speed as the above two programs. Has\n image manipulation & slideshow functions. Shareware, $20.\n\nMacintosh:\n\nMost Mac JPEG programs rely on Apple\'s JPEG implementation, which is part of\nthe QuickTime system extension; so you need to have QuickTime installed.\nTo use QuickTime, you need a 68020 or better CPU and you need to be running\nSystem 6.0.7 or later. (If you\'re running System 6, you must also install\nthe 32-bit QuickDraw extension; this is built-in on System 7.) You can get\nQuickTime by FTP from ftp.apple.com, file dts/mac/quicktime/quicktime.hqx.\n(As of 11/92, this file contains QuickTime 1.5, which is better than QT 1.0\nin several ways. With respect to JPEG, it is marginally faster and\nconsiderably less prone to crash when fed a corrupt JPEG file. However,\nsome applications seem to have compatibility problems with QT 1.5.)\n\nMac users should keep in mind that QuickTime\'s JPEG format, PICT/JPEG, is\nnot the same as the Usenet-standard JFIF JPEG format. (See section 10 for\ndetails.) If you post images on Usenet, make sure they are in JFIF format.\nMost of the programs mentioned below can generate either format.\n\nThe first choice is probably JPEGView, a free program for viewing images\nthat are in JFIF format, PICT/JPEG format, or GIF format. It also can\nconvert between the two JPEG formats. The current version, 2.0, is a big\nimprovement over prior versions. Get it from sumex-aim.stanford.edu\n(36.44.0.6), file /info-mac/app/jpeg-view-20.hqx. Requires System 7 and\nQuickTime. On 8-bit displays, JPEGView usually produces the best color\nimage quality of all the currently available Mac JPEG viewers. JPEGView can\nview large images in much less memory than other Mac viewers; in fact, it\'s\nthe only one that can deal with JPEG images much over 640x480 pixels on a\ntypical 4MB Mac. Given a large image, JPEGView automatically scales it down\nto fit on the screen, rather than presenting scroll bars like most other\nviewers. (You can zoom in on any desired portion, though.) Some people\nlike this behavior, some don\'t. Overall, JPEGView\'s user interface is very\nwell thought out.\n\nGIFConverter, a shareware ($40) image viewer/converter, supports JFIF and\nPICT/JPEG, as well as GIF and several other image formats. The latest\nversion is 2.3.2. Get it from sumex-aim.stanford.edu, file\n/info-mac/art/gif/gif-converter-232.hqx. Requires System 6.0.5 or later.\nGIFConverter is not better than JPEGView as a plain JPEG/GIF viewer, but\nit has much more extensive image manipulation and format conversion\ncapabilities, so you may find it worth its shareware fee if you do a lot of\nplaying around with images. Also, the newest version of GIFConverter can\nload and save JFIF images *without* QuickTime, so it is your best bet if\nyour machine is too old to run QuickTime. (But it\'s faster with QuickTime.)\nNote: If GIFConverter runs out of memory trying to load a large JPEG, try\nconverting the file to GIF with JPEG Convert, then viewing the GIF version.\n\nJPEG Convert, a Mac version of the free IJG JPEG conversion utilities, is\navailable from sumex-aim.stanford.edu, file /info-mac/app/jpeg-convert-10.hqx.\nThis will run on any Mac, but it only does file conversion, not viewing.\nYou can use it in conjunction with any GIF viewer.\n\nPrevious versions of this FAQ recommended Imagery JPEG v0.6, a JPEG<=>GIF\nconverter based on an old version of the IJG code. If you are using this\nprogram, you definitely should replace it with JPEG Convert.\n\nApple\'s free program PictPixie can view images in JFIF, QuickTime JPEG, and\nGIF format, and can convert between these formats. You can get PictPixie\nfrom ftp.apple.com, file dts/mac/quicktime/qt.1.0.stuff/pictpixie.hqx.\nRequires QuickTime. PictPixie was intended as a developer\'s tool, and it\'s\nreally not the best choice unless you like to fool around with QuickTime.\nSome of its drawbacks are that it requires lots of memory, it produces\nrelatively poor color image quality on anything less than a 24-bit display,\nand it has a relatively unfriendly user interface. Worse, PictPixie is an\nunsupported program, meaning it has some minor bugs that Apple does not\nintend to fix. (There is an old version of PictPixie, called\nPICTCompressor, floating around the net. If you have this you should trash\nit, as it\'s even buggier. Also, the QuickTime Starter Kit includes a much\ncleaned-up descendant of PictPixie called Picture Compressor. Note that\nPicture Compressor is NOT free and may not be distributed on the net.)\n\nStorm Technology\'s Picture Decompress is a free JPEG viewer/converter.\nThis rather old program is inferior to the above programs in many ways, but\nit will run without System 7 or QuickTime, so you may be forced to use it on\nolder systems. (It does need 32-bit QuickDraw, so really old machines can\'t\nuse it.) You can get it from sumex-aim.stanford.edu, file\n/info-mac/app/picture-decompress-201.hqx. You must set the file type of a\ndownloaded image file to \'JPEG\' to allow Picture Decompress to open it.\n\nIf your machine is too old to run 32-bit QuickDraw (a Mac Plus for instance),\nGIFConverter is your only choice for single-program JPEG viewing. If you\ndon\'t want to pay for GIFConverter, use JPEG Convert and a free GIF viewer.\n\nMore and more commercial Mac applications are supporting JPEG, although not\nall can deal with the Usenet-standard JFIF format. Adobe Photoshop, version\n2.0.1 or later, can read and write JFIF-format JPEG files (use the JPEG\nplug-in from the Acquire menu). You must set the file type of a downloaded\nJPEG file to \'JPEG\' to allow Photoshop to recognize it.\n\nAmiga:\n\n(Most programs listed in this section are stored in the AmiNet archive at\namiga.physik.unizh.ch (130.60.80.80). There are many mirror sites of this\narchive and you should try to use the closest one. In the USA, a good\nchoice is wuarchive.wustl.edu; look under /mirrors/amiga.physik.unizh.ch/...)\n\nHamLab Plus is an excellent JPEG viewer/converter, as well as being a\ngeneral image manipulation tool. It\'s cheap (shareware, $20) and can read\nseveral formats besides JPEG. The current version is 2.0.8. A demo version\nis available from amiga.physik.unizh.ch (and mirror sites), file\namiga/gfx/edit/hamlab208d.lha. The demo version will crop images larger\nthan 512x512, but it is otherwise fully functional.\n\nRend24 (shareware, $30) is an image renderer that can display JPEG, ILBM,\nand GIF images. The program can be used to create animations, even\ncapturing frames on-the-fly from rendering packages like Lightwave. The\ncurrent version is 1.05, available from amiga.physik.unizh.ch (and mirror\nsites), file amiga/os30/gfx/rend105.lha. (Note: although this directory is\nsupposedly for AmigaDOS 3.0 programs, the program will also run under\nAmigaDOS 1.3, 2.04 or 2.1.)\n\nViewtek is a free JPEG/ILBM/GIF/ANIM viewer. The current version is 1.04,\navailable from amiga.physik.unizh.ch (and mirror sites), file\namiga/gfx/show/ViewTek104.lha.\n\nIf you\'re willing to spend real money, there are several commercial packages\nthat support JPEG. Two are written by Thomas Krehbiel, the author of Rend24\nand Viewtek. These are CineMorph, a standalone image morphing package, and\nImageFX, an impressive 24-bit image capture, conversion, editing, painting,\neffects and prepress package that also includes CineMorph. Both are\ndistributed by Great Valley Products. Art Department Professional (ADPro),\nfrom ASDG Inc, is the most widely used commercial image manipulation\nsoftware for Amigas. ImageMaster, from Black Belt Systems, is another\nwell-regarded commercial graphics package with JPEG support.\n\nThe free IJG JPEG software is available compiled for Amigas from\namiga.physik.unizh.ch (and mirror sites) in directory amiga/gfx/conv, file\nAmigaJPEGV4.lha. These programs convert JPEG to/from PPM,GIF,Targa formats.\n\nThe Amiga world is heavily infested with quick-and-dirty JPEG programs, many\nbased on an ancient beta-test version of the free IJG JPEG software (thanks\nto a certain magazine that published same on its disk-of-the-month, without\nso much as notifying the authors). Among these are "AugJPEG", "NewAmyJPEG",\n"VJPEG", and probably others I have not even heard of. In my opinion,\nanything older than IJG version 3 (March 1992) is not worth the disk space\nit\'s stored on; if you have such a program, trash it and get something newer.\n\nAtari ST:\n\nThe free IJG JPEG software is available compiled for Atari ST, TT, etc,\nfrom atari.archive.umich.edu, file /atari/Graphics/jpeg4bin.zoo.\nThese programs convert JPEG to/from PPM, GIF, Targa formats.\n\nFor monochrome ST monitors, try MGIF, which manages to achieve four-level\ngrayscale effect by flickering. Version 4.1 reads JPEG files. Available\nfrom atari.archive.umich.edu, file /atari/Graphics/mgif41b.zoo.\n\nI have not heard of any other free or shareware JPEG-capable viewers for\nAtaris, but surely there must be some by now? Pointers appreciated.\n\nAcorn Archimedes:\n\n!ChangeFSI, supplied with RISC OS 3 version 3.10, can convert from and view\nJPEG JFIF format. Provision is also made to convert images to JPEG,\nalthough this must be done from the CLI rather than by double-clicking.\n\nRecent versions (since 7.11) of the shareware program Translator can handle\nJPEG, along with about 30 other image formats. While older versions can be\nfound on some Archimedes bboards, the current version is only available by\nregistering with the author, John Kortink, Nutterbrink 31, 7544 WJ, Enschede,\nThe Netherlands. Price 35 Dutch guilders (about $22 or 10 pounds).\n\nThere\'s also a commercial product called !JPEG which provides JPEG read/write\nfunctionality and direct JPEG viewing, as well as a host of other image\nformat conversion and processing options. This is more expensive but not\nnecessarily better than the above programs. Contact: DT Software, FREEPOST,\nCambridge, UK. Tel: 0223 841099.\n\nNeXT:\n\nImageViewer is a PD utility that displays images and can do some format\nconversions. The current version reads JPEG but does not write it.\nImageViewer is available from the standard NeXT archives at\nsonata.cc.purdue.edu and cs.orst.edu, somewhere in /pub/next (both are\ncurrently being re-organized, so it\'s hard to point to specific\nsub-directories). Note that there is an older version floating around that\ndoes not support JPEG.\n\n\nPortable software for almost any system:\n\nIf none of the above fits your situation, you can obtain and compile the free\nJPEG conversion software described in 6B. You\'ll also need a viewer program.\nIf your display is 8 bits or less, any GIF viewer will do fine; if you have a\ndisplay with more color capability, try to find a viewer that can read Targa\nor PPM 24-bit image files.\n\nThere are numerous commercial JPEG offerings, with more popping up every\nday. I recommend that you not spend money on one of these unless you find\nthe available free or shareware software vastly too slow. In that case,\npurchase a hardware-assisted product. Ask pointed questions about whether\nthe product complies with the final JPEG standard and about whether it can\nhandle the JFIF file format; many of the earliest commercial releases are\nnot and never will be compatible with anyone else\'s files.\n\n\n[6B] If you are looking for source code to work with:\n\nFree, portable C code for JPEG compression is available from the Independent\nJPEG Group, which I lead. A package containing our source code,\ndocumentation, and some small test files is available from several places.\nThe "official" archive site for this source code is ftp.uu.net (137.39.1.9\nor 192.48.96.9). Look under directory /graphics/jpeg; the current release\nis jpegsrc.v4.tar.Z. (This is a compressed TAR file; don\'t forget to\nretrieve in binary mode.) You can retrieve this file by FTP or UUCP.\nIf you are on a PC and don\'t know how to cope with .tar.Z format, you may\nprefer ZIP format, which you can find at Simtel20 and mirror sites (see NOTE\nabove), file msdos/graphics/jpegsrc4.zip. This file will also be available on\nCompuServe, in the GRAPHSUPPORT forum (GO PICS), library 15, as jpsrc4.zip.\nIf you have no FTP access, you can retrieve the source from your nearest\ncomp.sources.misc archive; version 4 appeared as issues 55-72 of volume 34.\n(If you don\'t know how to retrieve comp.sources.misc postings, see the FAQ\narticle "How to find sources", referred to at the top of section 6.)\n\nThe free JPEG code provides conversion between JPEG "JFIF" format and image\nfiles in GIF, PBMPLUS PPM/PGM, Utah RLE, and Truevision Targa file formats.\nThe core compression and decompression modules can easily be reused in other\nprograms, such as image viewers. The package is highly portable; we have\ntested it on many machines ranging from PCs to Crays.\n\nWe have released this software for both noncommercial and commercial use.\nCompanies are welcome to use it as the basis for JPEG-related products.\nWe do not ask a royalty, although we do ask for an acknowledgement in\nproduct literature (see the README file in the distribution for details).\nWe hope to make this software industrial-quality --- although, as with\nanything that\'s free, we offer no warranty and accept no liability.\n\nThe Independent JPEG Group is a volunteer organization; if you\'d like to\ncontribute to improving our software, you are welcome to join.\n\n\n[7] What\'s all this hoopla about color quantization?\n\nMost people don\'t have full-color (24 bit per pixel) display hardware.\nTypical display hardware stores 8 or fewer bits per pixel, so it can display\n256 or fewer distinct colors at a time. To display a full-color image, the\ncomputer must map the image into an appropriate set of representative\ncolors. This process is called "color quantization". (This is something\nof a misnomer, "color selection" would be a better term. We\'re stuck with\nthe standard usage though.)\n\nClearly, color quantization is a lossy process. It turns out that for most\nimages, the details of the color quantization algorithm have MUCH more impact\non the final image quality than do any errors introduced by JPEG (except at\nthe very lowest JPEG quality settings).\n\nSince JPEG is a full-color format, converting a color JPEG image for display\non 8-bit-or-less hardware requires color quantization. This is true for\n*all* color JPEGs: even if you feed a 256-or-less-color GIF into JPEG, what\ncomes out of the decompressor is *not* 256 colors, but thousands of colors.\nThis happens because JPEG\'s lossiness affects each pixel a little\ndifferently, so two pixels that started with identical colors will probably\ncome out with slightly different colors. Each original color gets "smeared"\ninto a group of nearby colors. Therefore quantization is always required to\ndisplay a color JPEG on a colormapped display, regardless of the image\nsource. The only way to avoid quantization is to ask for gray-scale output.\n\n(Incidentally, because of this effect it\'s nearly meaningless to talk about\nthe number of colors used by a JPEG image. Even if you attempted to count\nthe number of distinct pixel values, different JPEG decoders would give you\ndifferent results because of roundoff error differences. I occasionally see\nposted images described as "256-color JPEG". This tells me that the poster\n(a) hasn\'t read this FAQ and (b) probably converted the JPEG from a GIF.\nJPEGs can be classified as color or gray-scale (just like photographs), but\nnumber of colors just isn\'t a useful concept for JPEG.)\n\nOn the other hand, a GIF image by definition has already been quantized to\n256 or fewer colors. (A GIF *does* have a definite number of colors in its\npalette, and the format doesn\'t allow more than 256 palette entries.)\nFor purposes of Usenet picture distribution, GIF has the advantage that the\nsender precomputes the color quantization, so recipients don\'t have to.\nThis is also the *disadvantage* of GIF: you\'re stuck with the sender\'s\nquantization. If the sender quantized to a different number of colors than\nwhat you can display, you have to re-quantize, resulting in much poorer\nimage quality than if you had quantized once from a full-color image.\nFurthermore, if the sender didn\'t use a high-quality color quantization\nalgorithm, you\'re out of luck.\n\nFor this reason, JPEG offers the promise of significantly better image quality\nfor all users whose machines don\'t match the sender\'s display hardware.\nJPEG\'s full color image can be quantized to precisely match the user\'s display\nhardware. Furthermore, you will be able to take advantage of future\nimprovements in quantization algorithms (there is a lot of active research in\nthis area), or purchase better display hardware, to get a better view of JPEG\nimages you already have. With a GIF, you\'re stuck forevermore with what was\nsent.\n\nIt\'s also worth mentioning that many GIF-viewing programs include rather\nshoddy quantization routines. If you view a 256-color GIF on a 16-color EGA\ndisplay, for example, you are probably getting a much worse image than you\nneed to. This is partly an inevitable consequence of doing two color\nquantizations (one to create the GIF, one to display it), but often it\'s\nalso due to sloppiness. JPEG conversion programs will be forced to use\nhigh quality quantizers in order to get acceptable results at all, and in\nnormal use they will quantize directly to the number of colors to be\ndisplayed. Thus, JPEG is likely to provide better results than the average\nGIF program for low-color-resolution displays as well as high-resolution ones!\n\nFinally, an ever-growing number of people have better-than-8-bit display\nhardware already: 15-bit "hi-color" PC displays, true 24-bit displays on\nworkstations and Macintoshes, etc. For these people, GIF is already\nobsolete, as it cannot represent an image to the full capabilities of their\ndisplay. JPEG images can drive these displays much more effectively.\nThus, JPEG is an all-around better choice than GIF for representing images\nin a machine-independent fashion.\n\n\n[8] How does JPEG work?\n\nThe buzz-words to know are chrominance subsampling, discrete cosine\ntransforms, coefficient quantization, and Huffman or arithmetic entropy\ncoding. This article\'s long enough already, so I\'m not going to say more\nthan that here. For technical information, see the comp.compression FAQ.\nThis is available from the news.answers archive at rtfm.mit.edu, in files\n/pub/usenet/news.answers/compression-faq/part[1-3]. If you need help in\nusing the news.answers archive, see the top of this article.\n\n\n[9] What about lossless JPEG?\n\nThere\'s a great deal of confusion on this subject. The JPEG committee did\ndefine a truly lossless compression algorithm, i.e., one that guarantees the\nfinal output is bit-for-bit identical to the original input. However, this\nlossless mode has almost nothing in common with the regular, lossy JPEG\nalgorithm, and it offers much less compression. At present, very few\nimplementations of lossless JPEG exist, and all of them are commercial.\n\nSaying "-Q 100" to the free JPEG software DOES NOT get you a lossless image.\nWhat it does get rid of is deliberate information loss in the coefficient\nquantization step. There is still a good deal of information loss in the\ncolor subsampling step. (With the V4 free JPEG code, you can also say\n"-sample 1x1" to turn off subsampling. Keep in mind that many commercial\nJPEG implementations cannot cope with the resulting file.)\n\nEven with both quantization and subsampling turned off, the regular JPEG\nalgorithm is not lossless, because it is subject to roundoff errors in\nvarious calculations. The maximum error is a few counts in any one pixel\nvalue; it\'s highly unlikely that this could be perceived by the human eye,\nbut it might be a concern if you are doing machine processing of an image.\n\nAt this minimum-loss setting, regular JPEG produces files that are perhaps\nhalf the size of an uncompressed 24-bit-per-pixel image. True lossless JPEG\nprovides roughly the same amount of compression, but it guarantees\nbit-for-bit accuracy.\n\nIf you have an application requiring lossless storage of images with less\nthan 6 bits per pixel (per color component), you may want to look into the\nJBIG bilevel image compression standard. This performs better than JPEG\nlossless on such images. JPEG lossless is superior to JBIG on images with\n6 or more bits per pixel; furthermore, JPEG is public domain (at least with a\nHuffman back end), while the JBIG techniques are heavily covered by patents.\n\n\n[10] Why all the argument about file formats?\n\nStrictly speaking, JPEG refers only to a family of compression algorithms;\nit does *not* refer to a specific image file format. The JPEG committee was\nprevented from defining a file format by turf wars within the international\nstandards organizations.\n\nSince we can\'t actually exchange images with anyone else unless we agree on\na common file format, this leaves us with a problem. In the absence of\nofficial standards, a number of JPEG program writers have just gone off to\n"do their own thing", and as a result their programs aren\'t compatible with\nanybody else\'s.\n\nThe closest thing we have to a de-facto standard JPEG format is some work\nthat\'s been coordinated by people at C-Cube Microsystems. They have defined\ntwo JPEG-based file formats:\n * JFIF (JPEG File Interchange Format), a "low-end" format that transports\n pixels and not much else.\n * TIFF/JPEG, aka TIFF 6.0, an extension of the Aldus TIFF format. TIFF is\n a "high-end" format that will let you record just about everything you\n ever wanted to know about an image, and a lot more besides :-). TIFF is\n a lot more complex than JFIF, and may well prove less transportable,\n because different vendors have historically implemented slightly different\n and incompatible subsets of TIFF. It\'s not likely that adding JPEG to the\n mix will do anything to improve this situation.\nBoth of these formats were developed with input from all the major vendors\nof JPEG-related products; it\'s reasonably likely that future commercial\nproducts will adhere to one or both standards.\n\nI believe that Usenet should adopt JFIF as the replacement for GIF in\npicture postings. JFIF is simpler than TIFF and is available now; the\nTIFF 6.0 spec has only recently been officially adopted, and it is still\nunusably vague on some crucial details. Even when TIFF/JPEG is well\ndefined, the JFIF format is likely to be a widely supported "lowest common\ndenominator"; TIFF/JPEG files may never be as transportable.\n\nA particular case that people may be interested in is Apple\'s QuickTime\nsoftware for the Macintosh. QuickTime uses a JFIF-compatible format wrapped\ninside the Mac-specific PICT structure. Conversion between JFIF and\nQuickTime JPEG is pretty straightforward, and several Mac programs are\navailable to do it (see Mac portion of section 6A). If you have an editor\nthat handles binary files, you can strip a QuickTime JPEG PICT down to JFIF\nby hand; see section 11 for details.\n\nAnother particular case is Handmade Software\'s programs (GIF2JPG/JPG2GIF and\nImage Alchemy). These programs are capable of reading and writing JFIF\nformat. By default, though, they write a proprietary format developed by\nHSI. This format is NOT readable by any non-HSI programs and should not be\nused for Usenet postings. Use the -j switch to get JFIF output. (This\napplies to old versions of these programs; the current releases emit JFIF\nformat by default. You still should be careful not to post HSI-format\nfiles, unless you want to get flamed by people on non-PC platforms.)\n\n\n[11] How do I recognize which file format I have, and what do I do about it?\n\nIf you have an alleged JPEG file that your software won\'t read, it\'s likely\nto be HSI format or some other proprietary JPEG-based format. You can tell\nwhat you have by inspecting the first few bytes of the file:\n\n1. A JFIF-standard file will start with the characters (hex) FF D8 FF E0,\n followed by two variable bytes (often hex 00 10), followed by \'JFIF\'.\n\n2. If you see FF D8 at the start, but not the rest of it, you may have a\n "raw JPEG" file. This is probably decodable as-is by JFIF software ---\n it\'s worth a try, anyway.\n\n3. HSI files start with \'hsi1\'. You\'re out of luck unless you have HSI\n software. Portions of the file may look like plain JPEG data, but they\n won\'t decompress properly with non-HSI programs.\n\n4. A Macintosh PICT file, if JPEG-compressed, will have a couple hundred\n bytes of header followed by a JFIF header (scan for \'JFIF\'). Strip off\n everything before the FF D8 and you should be able to read it.\n\n5. Anything else: it\'s a proprietary format, or not JPEG at all. If you are\n lucky, the file may consist of a header and a raw JPEG data stream.\n If you can identify the start of the JPEG data stream (look for FF D8),\n try stripping off everything before that.\n\nIn uuencoded Usenet postings, the characteristic JFIF pattern is\n\n\t"begin" line\n\tM_]C_X ...\n\nwhereas uuencoded HSI files will start with\n\n\t"begin" line\n\tM:\'-I ...\n\nIf you learn to check for the former, you can save yourself the trouble of\ndownloading non-JFIF files.\n\n\n[12] What about arithmetic coding?\n\nThe JPEG spec defines two different "back end" modules for the final output\nof compressed data: either Huffman coding or arithmetic coding is allowed.\nThe choice has no impact on image quality, but arithmetic coding usually\nproduces a smaller compressed file. On typical images, arithmetic coding\nproduces a file 5 or 10 percent smaller than Huffman coding. (All the\nfile-size numbers previously cited are for Huffman coding.)\n\nUnfortunately, the particular variant of arithmetic coding specified by the\nJPEG standard is subject to patents owned by IBM, AT&T, and Mitsubishi.\nThus *you cannot legally use arithmetic coding* unless you obtain licenses\nfrom these companies. (The "fair use" doctrine allows people to implement\nand test the algorithm, but actually storing any images with it is dubious\nat best.)\n\nAt least in the short run, I recommend that people not worry about\narithmetic coding; the space savings isn\'t great enough to justify the\npotential legal hassles. In particular, arithmetic coding *should not*\nbe used for any images to be exchanged on Usenet.\n\nThere is some small chance that the legal situation may change in the\nfuture. Stay tuned for further details.\n\n\n[13] Does loss accumulate with repeated compression/decompression?\n\nIt would be nice if, having compressed an image with JPEG, you could\ndecompress it, manipulate it (crop off a border, say), and recompress it\nwithout any further image degradation beyond what you lost initially.\nUnfortunately THIS IS NOT THE CASE. In general, recompressing an altered\nimage loses more information, though usually not as much as was lost the\nfirst time around.\n\nThe next best thing would be that if you decompress an image and recompress\nit *without changing it* then there is no further loss, i.e., you get an\nidentical JPEG file. Even this is not true; at least, not with the current\nfree JPEG software. It\'s essentially a problem of accumulation of roundoff\nerror. If you repeatedly compress and decompress, the image will eventually\ndegrade to where you can see visible changes from the first-generation\noutput. (It usually takes many such cycles to get visible change.)\nOne of the things on our to-do list is to see if accumulation of error can\nbe avoided or limited, but I am not optimistic about it.\n\nIn any case, the most that could possibly be guaranteed would be that\ncompressing the unmodified full-color output of djpeg, at the original\nquality setting, would introduce no further loss. Even such simple changes\nas cropping off a border could cause further roundoff-error degradation.\n(If you\'re wondering why, it\'s because the pixel-block boundaries move.\nIf you cropped off only multiples of 16 pixels, you might be safe, but\nthat\'s a mighty limited capability!)\n\nThe bottom line is that JPEG is a useful format for archival storage and\ntransmission of images, but you don\'t want to use it as an intermediate\nformat for sequences of image manipulation steps. Use a lossless format\n(PPM, RLE, TIFF, etc) while working on the image, then JPEG it when you are\nready to file it away. Aside from avoiding degradation, you will save a lot\nof compression/decompression time this way :-).\n\n\n[14] What are some rules of thumb for converting GIF images to JPEG?\n\nAs stated earlier, you *will* lose some amount of image information if you\nconvert an existing GIF image to JPEG. If you can obtain the original\nfull-color data the GIF was made from, it\'s far better to make a JPEG from\nthat. But if you need to save space and have only the GIF to work from,\nhere are some suggestions for getting maximum space savings with minimum\nloss of quality.\n\nThe first rule when converting a GIF library is to look at each JPEG, to\nmake sure you are happy with it, before throwing away the corresponding GIF;\nthat will give you a chance to re-do the conversion with a higher quality\nsetting if necessary. Some GIFs may be better left as GIFs, as explained in\nsection 3; in particular, cartoon-type GIFs with sixteen or fewer colors\ndon\'t convert well. You may find that a JPEG file of reasonable quality\nwill be *larger* than the GIF. (So check the sizes too.)\n\nExperience to date suggests that large, high-visual-quality GIFs are the best\ncandidates for conversion to JPEG. They chew up the most storage so offer\nthe most potential savings, and they convert to JPEG with least degradation.\nDon\'t waste your time converting any GIF much under 100 Kbytes. Also, don\'t\nexpect JPEG files converted from GIFs to be as small as those created\ndirectly from full-color originals. To maintain image quality you may have\nto let the converted files be as much as twice as big as straight-through\nJPEG files would be (i.e., shoot for 1/2 or 1/3rd the size of the GIF file,\nnot 1/4th as suggested in earlier comparisons).\n\nMany people have developed an odd habit of putting a large constant-color\nborder around a GIF image. While useless, this was nearly free in terms of\nstorage cost in GIF files. It is NOT free in JPEG files, and the sharp\nborder boundary can create visible artifacts ("ghost" edges). Do yourself\na favor and crop off any border before JPEGing. (If you are on an X Windows\nsystem, XV\'s manual and automatic cropping functions are a very painless\nway to do this.)\n\ncjpeg\'s default Q setting of 75 is appropriate for full-color input, but\nfor GIF inputs, Q settings of 85 to 95 often seem to be necessary to avoid\nimage degradation. (If you apply smoothing as suggested below, the higher\nQ setting may not be necessary.)\n\nColor GIFs of photographs or complex artwork are usually "dithered" to fool\nyour eye into seeing more than the 256 colors that GIF can actually store.\nIf you enlarge the image, you will see that adjacent pixels are often of\nsignificantly different colors; at normal size the eye averages these pixels\ntogether to produce the illusion of an intermediate color value. The\ntrouble with dithering is that, to JPEG, it looks like high-spatial-frequency\ncolor noise; and JPEG can\'t compress noise very well. The resulting JPEG\nfile is both larger and of lower image quality than what you would have\ngotten from JPEGing the original full color image (if you had it).\nTo get around this, you want to "smooth" the GIF image before compression.\nSmoothing averages together nearby pixels, thus approximating the color that\nyou thought you saw anyway, and in the process getting rid of the rapid\ncolor changes that give JPEG trouble. Appropriate use of smoothing will\noften let you avoid using a high Q factor, thus further reducing the size of\nthe compressed file, while still obtaining a better-looking output image\nthan you\'d get without smoothing.\n\nWith the V4 free JPEG software (or products based on it), a simple smoothing\ncapability is built in. Try "-smooth 10" or so when converting GIFs.\nValues of 10 to 25 seem to work well for high-quality GIFs. Heavy-handed\ndithering may require larger smoothing factors. (If you can see regular\nfine-scale patterns on the GIF image even without enlargement, then strong\nsmoothing is definitely called for.) Too large a smoothing factor will blur\nthe output image, which you don\'t want. If you are an image processing\nwizard, you can also do smoothing with a separate filtering program, such as\npnmconvol from the PBMPLUS package. However, cjpeg\'s built-in smoother is\na LOT faster than pnmconvol...\n\nThe upshot of all this is that "cjpeg -quality 85 -smooth 10" is probably a\ngood starting point for converting GIFs. But if you really care about the\nimage, you\'ll want to check the results and maybe try a few other settings.\n\n\n---------------------\n\nFor more information about JPEG in general or the free JPEG software in\nparticular, contact the Independent JPEG Group at jpeg-info@uunet.uu.net.\n\n-- \n\t\t\ttom lane\n\t\t\torganizer, Independent JPEG Group\nInternet: tgl@cs.cmu.edu\tBITNET: tgl%cs.cmu.edu@carnegie\n',
'From: 92brown@gw.wmich.edu\nSubject: PC paint program (NeoPaint v1.1?)--Help\nOrganization: Western Michigan University\nLines: 14\n\nI am looking for a shareware graphics package called NeoPaint v1.1. I \nsaw it in a shareware catalog and was hoping that I could FTP it from \nthe net but have been unable to locate it. I have tried Archie and I \nhave gone through the entire comp.graphics newsgroup looking for some \nreference to it and have found none. I have also looked through the \nFAQ and also no reference. The program is called NeoPaint v1.1 and if \nanyone has heard of it or knows where I can get it I would appreciate \nit.\n\nSuggestions for other PC based shareware paint programs would also be \nappreciated. Email me your responses.\n\nMuch thanks,\nSean\n',
'From: push@world.std.com (Warren Liu)\nSubject: Help 3D Studio IPAS.\nOrganization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA\nLines: 6\n\n\n\nHi. Can anyone please give me some ftp sites to get IPAS processes for\n3D Studio 2.0?\nThanks.\n+Warren =8^)\n',
'From: zstern@adobe.com (Zalman Stern)\nSubject: Re: Adobe Photo Shop type software for Unix/X/Motif platforms?\nOrganization: Adobe Systems Incorporated\nLines: 24\n\nCharles Boesel writes\n> \n> In article <C5w8xB.Iv6@world.std.com> \n(sci.image.processing,comp.graphics), wdm@world.std.com (Wayne Michael) \nwrites:\n> > I have been searching for a quality image enhancement and\n> > manipulation package for Unix/X/Motif platforms that is comparable\n> > to Adobe Photo Shop for the Mac. [stuff deleted]\n> \n> I understand that Adobe is working on making Photoshop available for\n> the SGI Indigo, but that is just "rumor" and I wouldn\'t bet on it\n> until I see it. But they >are< going to release Illustrator for the SGI\n> "real soon now."\n> \n\nIllustrator for SGI is a shipping product. Adobe and SGI have announced that \nPhotoshop is being ported to SGI machines. A simillar announcement has been \nmade by Adobe and Sun for Sun platforms. No dates have been announced to the \nbest of my knowledge.\n--\nZalman Stern\t\t zalman@adobe.com\t\t (415) 962 3824\nAdobe Systems, 1585 Charleston Rd., POB 7900, Mountain View, CA 94039-7900\n "We\'re just a couple of joyful little pervo-goats." -- Akbar (Jeff?)\n\n',
'From: kempmp@phoenix.oulu.fi (Petri Pihko)\nSubject: Re: Atheism survey\nOrganization: University of Oulu, Finland\nLines: 88\nX-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL9]\n\nI replied to this query via e-mail, but I think there are some\nissues that are worth discussing in public.\n\nMTA (mtabbott@unix.amherst.edu) wrote:\n> I am doing research on atheism, part of which involves field research here\n> on the net. The following is a survey directed towards all readers of this\n> group, intended to get data about the basis of atheistic belief.\n\nI would recommend you to take a look at\n\n1) your dictionary\n2) alt.atheism FAQ files\n\nto notice that atheism is _not_ a belief system, and what is common\nto all atheists is not a belief, but a _lack of belief in deities_.\nI cannot imagine how anyone could do research on atheism without\npaying careful attention to this issue. \n\n> First of all, I\'ve tried to structure questions that can be answered in a\n> variety of ways, with varying amounts of detail; it\'s possible to give \n> succinct answers to most everything, but there\'s enough here to keep most of \n> you typing for hours, I\'m sure.\n\nIMHO, this is a poor method to do any real survey, although I\'m sure the\nreplies might keep you amused for hours.\n\n> Also, I tend to use a lot of anthropological buzzwords like "belief system"\n> although I know some of you might contend that you don\'t have ANY beliefs\n> , but\n> are skeptical towards everything. I understand; but you know what I mean.\n> Think of such buzzwords as abbreviations for the rather unweildy phrases \n> required to get the precise idea across. \n\nNo, I do _not_ know what you mean. If you are surveying our individual\nphilosophies, fine, but that\'s not strictly atheism. Atheism is not\njust another, godless version of the theistic explanations for life,\nthe universe and everything. It is not a belief system, and it could\nhardly be called a philosophical system.\n\nOnce more: Atheism is characterised by lack of belief in deities. \nDo not twist the meaning, or assume that we have some kind of\nphilosophy we all agree on.\n\nSome comments on your questions:\n\n> What contact with other atheists have you had; before and after (and during)\n> your "conversion" to atheism? (Certainly your involvement with alt.atheism\n> counts -- how have net discussions affected your beliefs?) \n\nI would also like to hear more about this. Have we been able to \'convert\'\nanyone?\n\n> Are you convinced that your beliefs were acquired through wholly rational\n> means (proofs of the non-existence of God, etc), or was it perhaps, at least \n> in part, through other means (alienation from mainstream religion, etc)? \n\nThis question contains a contradiction in terms. _Beliefs_ \ncannot be acquired rationally - if they could, they would not be \nbeliefs! You also seem to have rather strange ideas of how people become\natheists - those who are alienated from religion do not necessarily\nbecome atheists, they just think very little about religion. It seems\nit requires a considerable time of honest inquiry to find out that\nreligions are actually intellectually dishonest virtual realities.\n\nThose who have never had beliefs will certainly find this question\nquite odd - how can lack of belief be acquired? When did I acquire\nlack of belief in the Easter Bunny? (I did believe in Santa, though ;-))\n\n> To what extent do you feel you "understand" the universe through your \n> beliefs? What phenomena of the universe and of human existence (anything\n> from physical phenomena to the problem of the existence of evil in human\n> affairs) do you feel are adequately dealt with by your beliefs, and where\n> are they lacking as an explanatory method? \n\nThis question does not make any sense, since atheism does not deal with\nthese issues - it is not a worldview, or a philosophy, or a belief system.\n\nSigh, why haven\'t I seen a good, well-thought survey in the Usenet\nfor three years... and what is the point of doing surveys in the net,\nanyway? Just to abstract some opinions?\n\nPetri\n\n--\n ___. .\'*\'\'.* Petri Pihko kem-pmp@ Mathematics is the Truth.\n!___.\'* \'.\'*\' \' . Pihatie 15 C finou.oulu.fi Physics is the Rule of\n \' *\' .* \'* SF-90650 OULU kempmp@ the Game.\n *\' * .* FINLAND phoenix.oulu.fi -> Chemistry is The Game.\n',
'From: wagner@grace.math.uh.edu (David Wagner)\nSubject: Re: The doctrine of Original Sin\nOrganization: UH Dept of Math\nLines: 65\n\n"Alan" == E Alan Idler <aidler@sol.uvic.ca> writes:\n\nAlan> 2. We can also analyze to whom the Lord is addressing: "Marvel\nAlan> not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again" (John 3:7).\nAlan> Here Jesus is clearly directing his remarks to Nicodemus -- a\nAlan> ruler of the Jews (not a child).\n\nYes, but Jesus also made a very general and doctrinal statement\nin the same conversation:\n\n"Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit."\n(John 3:6)\n\nClearly infants are not born of the spirit. Thus, without baptism\nthey are unspiritual. They are not born with the image of God, but in\nAdam\'s fallen image (cf. Gen 5:3). They have no righteousness of\ntheir own, just as adults have no righteousness of their own. There\nis only the imputed righteousness of Christ, which believers receive\nthrough faith.\n\nAlan> 3. We can ask ourselves why the Lord would even introduce the\nAlan> concept of spiritual re-birth through baptism if newborn babies\nAlan> weren\'t free from sin?\n\nYour point is a little obscure here, but I think you are saying\nthat Christ used the "innocence" of newborn babes as a metaphor\nfor spiritual re-birth. But this is not what he did.\nIf you look at the text, he did not speak\nof spiritual re-birth but of spiritual birth. We are\nborn of the Spirit once, not twice or several times.\nWe are also born of the flesh once. The Lord makes it\nclear that these are separate and different events.\nIt is true that other Scriptures refer to spiritual\nbirth as re-birth because it is a second birth\n(for example, Titus 3:5). But it is not a second\n*spiritual* birth.\n\nThe only thing the two births have in common is the concept of birth,\nwhich is used as a symbol of `new life\' -- not of innocence. When an\ninfant is born (or conceived) a new life is begun--but it is neither\ninnocent nor righteous. Similarly when that same individual is\nbaptized, or perhaps when they believe prior to baptism, they begin a\nnew life in Christ (Romans 6:3, Colossians 2:12, Titus 3:5, Ephesians\n2:5). Then the believer has God\'s assurance of the forgiveness of\ntheir sins, and of Christ\'s imputed righteousness.\n\nFor references, see \n\tThe Augsburg Confession Article II, Original Sin, \n\tThe Apology to the Augsburg Confession, \n\t\tArticle II, Original Sin, \n\tthe Formula of Concord, Article I, Original Sin, and \n\tLuther\'s Large Catechism, Part 4, Baptism. \n\nFor something more recent, see "Baptized into God\'s Family: The\nDoctrine of Infant Baptism" by Andrew Das, available from Northwestern\nPublishing House. Andrew is a graduate of Concordia Lutheran\nSeminary, St. Louis, and is now pursuing doctoral studies at Yale\nDivinity School.\n\nDavid Wagner\t\t\t"But mad reason rushes forth\na confessional Lutheran\t\tand, because Baptism is not\n\t\t\t\tdazzling like the works we do,\n\t\t\t\tregards it as worthless."\n\t\t\t\t--Martin Luther, Large Catechism\n\t\t\t\t--Part 4, Baptism\n',
"From: creps@lateran.ucs.indiana.edu (Stephen A. Creps)\nSubject: Re: The doctrine of Original Sin\nOrganization: Indiana University\nLines: 15\n\nIn article <May.11.02.38.18.1993.28241@athos.rutgers.edu> adamsj@gtewd.mtv.gtegsc.com writes:\n>2 Samuel 12:21-23 (RSV) : \n[...]\n>Anyhow, many interpret this to mean that the child has gone to Heaven\n>(where David will someday go). I don't claim to know for sure if this\n>applies to all babies or not. But even if it's just this one, what\n>would you say to this?\n\n That brings up an interesting question. If this interpretation is\ncorrect, how would these people be getting into Heaven before Jesus\nopened the gates of Heaven?\n\n-\t-\t-\t-\t-\t-\t-\t-\t-\t-\nSteve Creps, Indiana University\ncreps@lateran.ucs.indiana.edu\n",
'From: aidler@sol.uvic.ca (E Alan Idler)\nSubject: Re: Mormon beliefs about bastards\nOrganization: University of Victoria\nLines: 75\n\nerh0362@tesla.njit.edu writes:\n\n> Could anyone enlighten me on how the Mormon church views \n>children born out of wedlock? In particular I\'m interested to know if any \n>stigma is attached to the children as opposed to the parents. \n\nAll children are born pure, i.e., without sin.\nHowever, most saints would view a pregnancy\noutside of marriage as an occasion of mourning.\n(Some church members would be much more\njudgmental, but that is *their* problem.)\n\nIn situations where welfare assistance is \nprovided through our Church, bishops usually\nrequire that the family be making some effort to\nlive the Gospel standards and provide for \nthemselves.\n\nHowever, there are occasions when assistance is\nprovided because of the children in the home.\nAs a former bishop of mine said, "Children are \nalways worthy before God."\n\n>I\'m especially \n>keen to learn if there is or is not any prohibition in the Mormon faith on \n>bastards entering heaven or having their names entered in the big genealogical \n>book the Mormons keep in Salt Lake City. \n\nI am not sure what you mean by the term "bastards"\nin this context.\n\nLatter-Day Saints believe that through the\ntemple ordinances the family unit may be\npreserved in eternity.\n\nIf you use genealogical material or software\nproduced by the Church, you may notice a section\nfor "temple ordinances." Within that section\nthere should be a spot for signifying "BIC"\nwhich stands for "born in the covenant."\n\nThe children born to couple sealed (married)\nwithin the temple are "born in the covenant"\nand are eligible to be part of that eternal\nfamily unit.\nChildren born to other couples (whether in a\ncivil marriage or not) would have to be\nsealed to their parents after their marriage\nis solemnized for eternity.\n\nSupposing a child were born to a woman out of\nwedlock, he or she could be sealed to his or\nher parents at a later date or adopted into \nany eternal family unit (which may include one\nof the birth parents).\n\n>If this is an issue on which the \n>"official" position has changed over time, I\'m interested in learning both old \n>and new beliefs. E-mail or posting is fine. All information or pointers are \n>appreciated.\n\nI can\'t say if this principle of adoption\nwas revealed at the same time as the sealing \nordinances, but it has been accepted for the \n~15 years I have been in the Church.\n\nI would tend to discount any admonitions from\nthe Church authorities against having children\nout of wedlock because even though there are\nprovisions within the Lord\'s plan to recover\nwhat we have done wrong the Church does not\nwant to give anyone the impression we can sin\nand repent at our leisure.\n\nA IDLER\n',
'From: Alan.Olsen@p17.f40.n105.z1.fidonet.org (Alan Olsen)\nSubject: Albert Sabin\nLines: 275\n\n\n\nBR> From: wpr@atlanta.dg.com (Bill Rawlins)\nBR> Newsgroups: alt.atheism\nBR> Organization: DGSID, Atlanta, GA\n\nBR> Since you have referred to the Messiah, I assume you\nBR> are referring to the New Testament. Please detail\nBR> your complaints or e-mail if you don\'t want to post.\nBR> First-century Greek is well-known and \nBR> well-understood. Have you considered Josephus, the Jewish\nBR> Historian, who also wrote of Jesus? In addition,\nBR> the four gospel accounts\t\t are very much in harmony.\n\nIt is also well known that the comments in Josephus relating to Jesus were\ninserted (badly) by later editors. As for the four gospels being in harmony\non the issue of Jesus... You know not of what you speak. Here are a few\ncontradictions starting with the trial and continuing through the assension.\n\n>The death of Judas after the betrayal of Jesus\n\nActs 1:18: "Now this man (Judas) purchased a field with the reward of \niniquity; and falling headlong, he burst asunder in the midst, and all his \nbowels gushed out."\n\nMatt. 27:5-7: "And he (Judas) cast down the pieces of silver in the temple, \nand departed, and went and hanged himself. And the chief priests...bought \nwith them the potter\'s field."\n\n>What was Jesus\' prediction regarding Peter\'s denial?\n\nBefore the cock crow - Matthew 26:34\n\nBefore the cock crow twice - Mark 14:30\n\n>How many times did the cock crow?\n\nMAR 14:72 And the second time the cock crew. And Peter called to mind the \nword that Jesus said unto him, Before the cock crow twice, thou shalt deny\nme thrice. And when he thought thereon, he wept.\n\nMAT 26:74 Then began he to curse and to swear, saying, I know not the man.\nAnd immediately the cock crew.\nMAT 26:75 And Peter remembered the word of Jesus, which said unto him,\nBefore the cock crow, thou shalt deny me thrice. And he went out, and wept\nbitterly.\n\nLUK 22:60 And Peter said, Man, I know not what thou sayest. And immediately,\nwhile he yet spake, the cock crew.\nLUK 22:61 And the Lord turned, and looked upon Peter. And Peter remembered\nthe word of the Lord, how he had said unto him, Before the cock crow, thou\nshalt deny me thrice.\n\nJOH 13:38 Jesus answered him, Wilt thou lay down thy life for my sake? \nVerily,\n verily, I say unto thee, The cock shall not crow, still thou hast denied me\nthrice.\n\nJOH 18:27 Peter then denied again: and immediately the cock crew.\n\n>destruction of cities (what said was jeremiah was zechariah)\n\n(This is interesting because Matthew quotes a prophesy that was never made! \nNot the only time he does this either...)\n\nMAT 27:9 Then was fulfilled that which was spoken by Jeremy the prophet, \nsaying, And they took the thirty pieces of silver, the price of him that was\nvalued, whom they of the children of Israel did value;\n\nzechariah 11:11-13\n(nothing in Jeremiah remotely like)\n\nWhat was the color of the robe placed on Jesus during his trial?\n\nscarlet - Matthew 27:28\n\npurple John 19:2\n\n>The time of the Crucifiction\n\nMark says the third hour, or 9 a.m., but John says the sixth hour (noon) was\nwhen the sentence was passed.\n\n>Inscription on the Cross\n\nMatthew -- This is Jesus the king of the Jews\nMark\t -- The King of the Jews\nLuke\t -- This is the king of the Jews\nJohn\t -- Jesus of Nazareth the king of the Jews\n\n>What did they give him to drink?\n\nvinegar - Matthew 27:34\n\nwine with myrrh - Mark 15:23\n\n>Women at the Cross\n\nMatthew said many stood far off, including Mary Magdaline, Mary the mother of\nJames, and the mother of Zebedee\'s children. Mark and Luke speak of many far\noff, and Mark includes Mary Magdeline and Mary the mother of James the less.\nJohn says that Jesus\'s mother stood at the cross, along with her sister and\nMary Magdalene.\n\n>Jesus\' last words \n\nMatt.27:46,50: "And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, \nsaying, "Eli, eli, lama sabachthani?" that is to say, "My God, my God, why\nhast thou forsaken me?" ...Jesus, when he cried again with a loud voice,\nyielded u the ghost."\n\nLuke23:46: "And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, "Father, unto\n thy hands I commend my spirit:" and having said thus, he gave up the ghost."\n\nJohn19:30: "When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, "It is \nfinished:" and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost."\n\n>Events of the crucifiction\n\nMatthew says that the veil of the temple was rent, that there was an\nearthquake, and that it was dark from the sixth to the ninth hour, that graves\nopened and bodies of the saints arose and went into Jeruselem, appearing to\nmany (beating Jesus to the resurection). Mark and Luke speak of darkness and\nthe veil of the temple being rent but mention no earthquake or risen saints. \nJohn is the only one who mentions Jesus\'s side being peirced.\n\n>Burial of Jesus\n\nMatthew says the Jews asked Pilate for a guard to prevent the body from being\nstolen by the disciples, and for the tomb to be sealed. All of this was\nsupposedly done, but the other gospels do not mention these precautions.\n\n>How long was Jesus in the tomb?\nDepends where you look; Matthew 12:40 gives Jesus prophesying that he will\nspend "three days and three nights in the heart of the earth", and Mark 10:34\nhas "after three days (meta treis emeras) he will rise again". As far as I can\nsee from a quick look, the prophecies have "after three days", but the\npost-resurrection narratives have "on the third day".\n\n>Time of the Resurection\n\nMatthew says Sunday at dawn, Mark says the sun was rising, and John says it\nwas dark.\n\n> Who was at the Empty Tomb? Is it :\n\nMAT 28:1 In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first\nday of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre.\n\nMAR 16:1 And when the sabbath was past, Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother \nof James, and Salome, had bought sweet spices, that they might come and\nanoint him.\n\nJOH 20:1 The first day of the week cometh Mary Magdalene early, when it \nwas yet dark, unto the sepulchre, and seeth the stone taken away from the\nsepulchre.\n\n>Whom did they see at the tomb?\n\nMAT 28:2 And, behold, there was a great earthquake: for the angel of the\nLord descended from heaven, and came and rolled back the stone from the door,\nand sat upon it.\nMAT 28:3 His countenance was like lightning, and his raiment white as\nsnow: MAT 28:4 And for fear of him the keepers did shake, and became as\ndead men. MAT 28:5 And the angel answered and said unto the women, Fear\nnot ye: for I know that ye seek Jesus, which was crucified.\n\nMAR 16:5 And entering into the sepulchre, they saw a young man sitting on \nthe right side, clothed in a long white garment; and they were affrighted.\n\nLUK 24:4 And it came to pass, as they were much perplexed thereabout,\nbehold, two men stood by them in shining garments:\n\nJOH 20:12 And seeth two angels in white sitting, the one at the head, and \nthe other at the feet, where the body of Jesus had lain.\n\n>Belief that the disciples stole Jesus\'s body\n\nMatthew says the guard was paid to tell this story, but no other gospel makes\nthis claim.\n\n>Appearences of the risen Jesus\n\nMatthew says an angel at the tomb told the two Marys and that Jesus also told\nthem, to tell the disciples to meet him in Galilee. The disciples then went\nto a mountain previously agreed opon, and met Jesus there. This was his only\nappearance, except to the women at the tomb. Matthew only devotes five verses\nto the visit with the disciples.\n\nMark says that Jesus walked with two of the disciples in the country, and that\nthey told the rest of the disciples, who refused to believe. Later he\nappeared to the 11 disciples at mealtime.\n\nLuke says two followers went, the same day that Jesus rose from the dead, to\nEmmaus, a village eight miles from Jeruselem, and there Jesus jioned them but\nwas unrecognised. While they ate a meal together that evening, they finally\nrecognised Jesus, whereopon he dissapeared. Returning at once to Jeruselem,\nthey told the\ndisciples of their experience, and suddenly Jesus appeared among them,\nfrightening them, as they thought he was a spirit. Jesus then ate some fish\nand honey and then preached to them.\n\nJohn says Jesus appeared to the disciples the evening of the day he arrose, in\nJeruselem, where they were hiding. He breathed the Holy Ghost opon them, but\nThomas was not present and refused to believe. Eight days later Jesus joined\nthe disciples again at the same place and this time he convinced Thomas.\tOnce\nmore Jesus made an\nappearance to the disciples at the sea of Tiberias but again was not\nrecognised.\n After telling them to cast their netson the other side of the boat, Jesus\nbecomes known to them and prepares bread and fish for them. They all eat\ntogether and converse.\n\nThe book of acts further adds to the confusion. It says that Jesus showed\nhimself to the apostles for a period of 40 days after his resurection (thus\ncontradicting Matthew, Mark, Luke AND John) and spoke to them of things\npertaining to the kingdom of God: "And when he had spoken these things, while\nthey beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud recieved him out of their sight. \nAnd while they looked steadfastly toward heaven as he went up, two men stood\nby them in white apparel: Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye\ngazing into heaven? This same Jesus, which is taken from you into heaven,\nshall so comein like manneras ye have seen him go into heaven" Acts 1:3-11\n\nPaul outdoes every other "authority" by saying that Jesus was seen by 500\npersons between the time of the resurection and the\nassension, although he does not say where.\tHe also claims that he himself "as\none born out of due time" also saw Jesus. 1 Cor 15:6-8.\n\n>The Ascension\n\nMatthew says nothing about it.\tMark casually says that Jesus was recieved into\nheaven after he was finished talking with the\ndisciples in Jeruselem. Luke says Jesus led the desciples to Bethany and that\nwhile he blessed them, he was parted from them and carried up into heaven. \nJohn says nothing about it. Acts\ncontradicts all of the above. (See previous section)\n\n>When second coming?\n\nMAT 24:34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all\nthese things be fulfilled.\n\nMAR 13:30 Verily I say unto you, that this generation shall not pass, till\nall these things be done.\n\nLUK 21:32 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till\nall be fulfilled.\n\n1 thessalonians 4:15-18\n\n>How many apostles were in office between the resurection and ascention \n1 Corinthians 15:5 (12)\nMatthew 27:3-5 (minus one from 12)\nActs 1:9-26 (Mathias not elected until after resurrection)\nMAT 28:16 Then the eleven disciples went away into Galilee, into a mountain\nwhere Jesus had appointed them.\n\n> ascend to heaven\n\t"And Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven." (2 Kings 2:11)\n\n\t"No man hath ascended up to heaven but he that came down from heaven, \t...\nthe Son of Man." (John 3:13)\n\nAs you can see, there are a number of contradictions in the account of the\ntrial, crucifiction and resurection of Jesus. If these are good witnesses,\nyou would think that they could get SOME of these important details right! \n(In fact, I cannot find very many points on where they AGREE. You would think\nthat they could at least agree on some of the points they were supposedly\nobserving!) Because of the fact that there is so much contradiction and error,\nthe story of the resurection as presented cannot be taken as literal truth.\n(Due to the nature of the story, I doubt if it should be taken as ANY sort of\ntruth.)\n\n Alan\n\n',
'From: (Rashid)\nSubject: Re: Yet more Rushdie [Re: ISLAMIC LAW]\nNntp-Posting-Host: nstlm66\nOrganization: NH\nLines: 231\n\nIn article <1993Apr17.044430.801@monu6.cc.monash.edu.au>,\ndarice@yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au (Fred Rice) wrote:\n> \nStuff deleted\n> Now, I do not believe in _blindly_ following anyone, no matter\n> how knowledgeable he or she may be in Islamic law. If someone tells me\n> "Islam says such and such", I immediately say "show me the support for\n> this statement from the Qur\'an and Sunnah". I believe this to be my\n> Islamic duty, for according to one hadith of the Prophet (peace and\n> blessings of God be with him), if your leader tells you to enter a fire,\n> and you do it (and kill yourself), then you have sinned for doing \n> wrong, even though you\n> were _blindly_ following the instructions of your leader. _I_ am\n> responsible for my own actions, not Abu Hanifa, or Imam Malik, etc.,\n> even if I am blindly following the opinions of Abu Hanifa etc.\n> \n> With this in mind, to my understanding, we must look at the reasoning\n> behind such opinions of Muslims that support Khomeini\'s fatwa. Now, to\n> my understanding, the hadith upon which those who support Khomeini\'s\n> fatwa is relating to a particular instance that occurred during war\n> time. Now, brother, in general, it is IMHO ridiculous and wrong to say\n> that a hadith relating to the actions of war is usable during times of\n> peace. I think any sensible human being can see this, so I personally\n> think that the reasoning of some of our ulema in this matter is faulty,\n> for they think it is legitimate to use acts of war in times of peace\n> regarding this particular subject.\n> \n> If you think I am wrong, please feel free to say so, _with your\n> reasoning from Qur\'an and hadith_, please. Not because somebody said\n> so, I want the reasoning from Al-Qur\'an and the sahih hadiths.\n> \n> Perhaps we should take our discussion to soc.religion.islam. Please\n> email me, Rashid, if you think we should do this.\n> \n> By the way, I also disagree with your opinion regarding the punishment\n> for apostasy. The viewpoint I follow -- that there is in general no\n> punishment for apostasy -- is _very_ strongly supported by Qur\'an and\n> hadith. This is very well shown in the book "Punishment in Islamic Law"\n> by Mohamed S. El-Awa (American Trust Publications, 1981).\n> \n\nI reiterate that I would agree with you that there is little\njustification for the punishment of apostasy in the Qur\'an.\nIn Islamic history, as well, apostasy has rarely been punished. \nBelief is considered a matter of conscience and since there\nis to be no compulsion in the matter of belief, apostates have\nbeen generally left to believe or not believe as they will.\n\nHowever, when an apostate makes attacks upon "God and\nHis Messenger" the situation changes. Now the charge of\napostasy may be complicated with other charges - perhaps \ncharges of sedition, treason, spying, etc. If the person \nmakes a public issue of their apostasy or mounts public\nattacks (as opposed to arguement) against Islam, the\nsituation is likewise complicated. If the person spreads\nslander or broadcasts falsehoods, again the situation\nchanges. The punishments vary according to the situation\nthe apostate is in. Anyhow, the charge of aggravated\napostasy would only be a subsidiary charge in Rushdie\'s case.\n\nThere is a distinction in the Qur\'an between a formal war situation\nand being in the situation where someone unilaterally\nwages war (by their actions), creates disorder, makes mischief,etc. \nagainst the Muslims and creates a situation that results in harm \nto Muslims. Here, a small group or even a single individual could\nbe said to be engaged in such a practise. In other words, there is\na clear difference between a formal war situation (where two\nclearly defined parties wage war, conclude treaties, exchange\nprisoners, etc.), and dealing with attacks that come from isolated\nindividuals or groups against Islam. It is the second situation, \nthe unilateral attack and the spreading of "fasad" that \nwould apply in the case of Rushdie.\n\nThe matter of Rushdie is not a simple matter of banning an \noffensive book (banning the book is secondary) -\na full set of circumstances following the publication of\nthe book come into play as well, including the deaths of many\nMuslims, and Rushdie\'s (and his publishers) Media games.\n\n\n> Now, I do not believe in _blindly_ following anyone, no matter\n> how knowledgeable he or she may be in Islamic law. If someone tells me\n> "Islam says such and such", I immediately say "show me the support for\n> this statement from the Qur\'an and Sunnah". I believe this to be my\n> Islamic duty, for according to one hadith of the Prophet (peace and\n> blessings of God be with him), if your leader tells you to enter a fire,\n> and you do it (and kill yourself), then you have sinned for doing \n> wrong, even though you\n> were _blindly_ following the instructions of your leader. _I_ am\n> responsible for my own actions, not Abu Hanifa, or Imam Malik, etc.,\n> even if I am blindly following the opinions of Abu Hanifa etc.\n\n>Now, to\n> my understanding, the hadith upon which those who support Khomeini\'s\n> fatwa is relating to a particular instance that occurred during war\n> time. Now, brother, in general, it is IMHO ridiculous and wrong to say\n> that a hadith relating to the actions of war is usable during times of\n> peace. I think any sensible human being can see this, so I personally\n> think that the reasoning of some of our ulema in this matter is faulty,\n> for they think it is legitimate to use acts of war in times of peace\n> regarding this particular subject.\n\nI am not sure which hadith you are referring to above. I believe\nthat one of the Qur\'anic verses on which the fatwa is based is 5:33.\nEvery verse in the Qur\'an has a corresponding "circumstance of\nrevelation" but in no way is the understanding (the tafsir) of the\nverse restricted solely to the particular historical circumstance\nin which it was revealed. If this was the case then we could say\nthat all the laws and regulations that were revealed when the\nMuslims were NOT involved in conflict, should be suspended when\nthey were at war. The logic does not follow. In complex, real-life\nsituations, there may be many verses and many hadiths which can\nall be related to a single, complicated situation. The internal\nrelationships between these verses may be quite complex, such that\narriving at an understanding of how the verses interlock and how\neach applies to the particular situation can be quite a demanding task.\nIt is not necessarily a simple "this or that" process. There may\nbe many parameters involved, there may be a larger context in\nwhich a particular situation should be viewed. All these matters\nimpinge on the situation.\n\nIn other words there is a great deal involved in deciphering the Qur\'an.\nThe Qur\'an asks us to reflect on its verses, but this reflection must\nentail more than simply reading a verse and its corresponding hadith.\nIf the reflection is for the sake of increasing personal piety, then each\nperson has his own level of understanding and there is no harm in that.\nHowever, if the reflection is in order to decide matters that pertain to\nthe\nState, to the gestation of laws and rulings, to the gestation of society,\nthe dispensing of justice, the guidance of the community, then there \nare certain minimum requirements of understanding that one \nshould achieve. Jaffar Ibn Muhammad as-Sadiq(a.s.) relates some of \nthese requirements, as taught by the Prophet(S.A.), in a hadith:\n\n"...he who does not distinguish in the Book of Allah the abrogating\nverse from the abrogated one, and a specific one from a general one,\nand a decisive from an ambiguous; and does not differentiate between\na permission and an obligation, and does not recognize a verse of\nMeccan period from a Medinite one, and does not know the circumstances \nof revelation, and does not understand the technical words of\nthe Qur\'an (whether simple or compound); and does not comprehend the\nknowledge of decree and measure, and is ignorant of advancing and\ndelaying (in its verses); and does not distinguish the clear from\nthe deep, nor the manifest from the esoteric, nor the beginning\nfrom the termination; and is unaware of the question and the answer,\nthe disjoining and the joining, and the exceptions and the all-inclusive,\nand is ignorant of an adjective of a preceding noun that explains the\nsubsequent one; and is unaware of the emphasized subject and the\ndetailed one, the obligatory laws and the permissions, the places of the\nduties and rules, and the meaning of the lawful and the unlawful; and\ndoes not know the joined words, and the words that are related to those\ncoming before them, or after them - then such a man does not know\nthe Qur\'an; nor is he among the people of the Qur\'an....".\n\nBased on these and other hadiths, and in accordance with many Qur\'anic\nverses ("Why should not a company from every group remain behind \nto gain profound understanding (tafaqquh) in religion and to warn \npeople when they return to them, so that they may beware." (9:122)),\na science of jurisprudence arose. The requirements\nfor a person to be considered a mujtahid (one who can pronounce on\nmatters of law and religion) are many. I\'ve listed a few major \ndivisions below - there are, of course, many subdivisions within these\nheadings.\n\n- Knowledge of Arabic (syntax, conjugation, roots, semantics, oratory).\n- Knowledge of tafsir and principles of tafsir.\n- Logic (mantiq)\n- A knowledge of Hadiths\n- A knowledge of transmitters (rijal)\n- Knowledge of the principles of juriprudence (Qur\'an, Sunnah, Consensus,\nReasoning)\n\nThe study of Qur\'an and sunnah for purposes of law involves:\n- discussion of imperatives (awamir)\n- discussion of negative imperatives (nawahi)\n- discussion of generalities and particularities (aam wa khas)\n- discussion of unconditional and conditional\n- discussion of tacit meanings\n- discussion of the abstract and the clear\n- discussion of the abrogator and the abrogated\n\nThe principles of Application of the law involves:\n- principles of exemption\n- principles of precaution\n- principles of option\n- principles of mastery\n\nThe jurisprudent is bound to go through a very rigorous process\nin pronouncing judgement on a given situation. It is not a matter\nof looking at one verse and one hadith. \n\nNow no one should blindly follow anyone, but there is a difference\nbetween blind following and acceding to the opinion of someone who is\nclearly more knowledgeable and more qualified than oneself. There is the\nfamous hadith of the Prophet (S.A.) in which he says:\n"The fuqaha (religious scholars) are the trustees of the Prophet, as \nlong as they do not concern themselves with the illicit desires, pleasures,\nand wealth of this world." The Prophet (S.A.) was asked: "O Messenger\nof God! How may we know if they so concern themselves?" He (S.A.) replied:\n"By seeing whether they follow the ruling power. If they do that, fear for\nyour religion and shun them." I do not yet know enough about the Imams\nof the four Sunni madhabs to comment on how this hadith applies\nto them or to the contemporary scholars who base themselves upon them.\n\nThe Prophet also refered to the fuqaha as "The fortress of Islam". My only\npoint is to make it clear that arriving at a legal judgement calls into\nplay a certain amount of expertise - the specifics of this expertise is \ndelineated in the Qur\'an and hadith. Those who acquire this expertise\nare praised in both the Qur\'an and hadith - those who without the requisite\nknowledge pronounce on matters that affect society, state, and religion \nare cautioned.\n\nThe only reason I said anything at all about the Rushdie affair in this\ngroup, is because the whole basis for the discussion of the fatwa (that is,\napostasy), was wrong. When one discusses something they should at least\nbase their discussion on fact. Secondly, Khomeini was condemned as a\nheretic\nbecause he supposedly claimed to be infallible - another instance of\ncreating a straw man and then beating him.\n\n> Perhaps we should take our discussion to soc.religion.islam. Please\n> email me, Rashid, if you think we should do this.\n\nI agree that we should move the discussion to another newsgroup.\nUnfortunately,\nI do not have any access to email, so private discussion or a moderated\ngroup\nis out of the question (I cannot post to a moderated group like\nsoc.religion.islam. How about soc.culture.arabic or talk.religion.misc?\n\nAs salaam a-laikum\n',
'From: frank@D012S658.uucp (Frank O\'Dwyer)\nSubject: Re: islamic genocide\nOrganization: Siemens-Nixdorf AG\nLines: 49\nDistribution: world\nNNTP-Posting-Host: d012s658.ap.mchp.sni.de\n\nIn article <1r2gi8$6e1@fido.asd.sgi.com> livesey@solntze.wpd.sgi.com (Jon Livesey) writes:\n#In article <1qu485$58o@horus.ap.mchp.sni.de>, frank@D012S658.uucp (Frank O\'Dwyer) writes:\n#|> In article <1qkovl$k@fido.asd.sgi.com> livesey@solntze.wpd.sgi.com (Jon Livesey) writes:\n#|> #\n#|> #False dichotomy. You claimed the killing were *not* religiously\n#|> #motivated, and I\'m saying that\'s wrong. I\'m not saying that\n#|> #each and every killing is religiously motivate, as I spelled out\n#|> #in detail.\n#|> \n#|> Which killings do you say are religously motivated?\n#\n#For example, I would claim that the recent assassination of four\n#catholic construction workers who had no connection with the IRA\n#was probably religously motivated.\n#\n#|> At the time\n#|> of writing, I think that someone who claims the current violence is\n#|> motivated by religion is reaching.\n#\n#What would you call is when someone writes "The killings in N.I \n#are not religously motivated?"\n\nI\'d say it was motivated by a primitive notion of revenge, and by\nmisguided patriotism. Otherwise, I\'d have to wonder how come mainland\ncatholics are not killed by mainland protestants, and southern\ncatholics are not killed by southern protestants, and so on. Take away\nall plausible causes bar religion, and the violence diminishes markedly.\nGee, why _is_ that?\n\n#|> Now, it\'s possible to argue that \n#|> religion *in the past* is a major contributing factor to the violence in\n#|> the present, but I don\'t know of any evidence that this is so - and I\'m\n#|> not enough of a historian to debate it. \n#\n#Given that the avowed aim of the IRA is to take Northern Ireland\n#into a country that has a particular church written into its \n#constitution, and which has restriction on civil rights dictated\n#by that Church, I fail to see why the word "past" is appropriate.\n\nThe country also has a different official language written in its\nconstitution (and vice versa :-) - maybe they\'re motivated by a love of \nIrish poetry. Your argument is fallacious, jon.\n\nFor what it\'s worth, I agree with all that you say about Ireland above, \nand more.\n\n-- \nFrank O\'Dwyer \'I\'m not hatching That\'\nodwyer@sse.ie from "Hens", by Evelyn Conlon\n',
'From: darice@yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au (Fred Rice)\nSubject: Re: Yet more Rushdie [Re: ISLAMIC LAW]\nOrganization: Monash University, Melb., Australia.\nLines: 37\n\nIn <1qla0g$afp@fido.asd.sgi.com> livesey@solntze.wpd.sgi.com (Jon Livesey) writes:\n\n>In article <115565@bu.edu>, jaeger@buphy.bu.edu (Gregg Jaeger) writes:\n>|> In article <1qi3l5$jkj@fido.asd.sgi.com> livesey@solntze.wpd.sgi.com (Jon Livesey) writes:\n>|> \n>|> >I hope an Islamic Bank is something other than BCCI, which\n>|> >ripped off so many small depositors among the Muslim\n>|> >community in the Uk and elsewhere.\n>|> \n[...deletions...]\n\n>BBCI was an example of an Islamically owned and operated bank -\n>what will someone bet me they weren\'t "real" Islamic owners and\n>operators? - and yet it actually turned out to be a long-running\n>and quite ruthless operation to steal money from small and often\n>quite naive depositors.\n\nAn "Islamic Bank" is something which operates in a different fashion to\nyour modern bank, as I have explained here (on another thread) before.\nFor example, Islamic banks don\'t pay fixed interests on deposits, but a\nreturn on investments (which varies according to the market, and is not\nfixed like interest is).\n\nIslamic banks are a relatively new phenomenon in the Islamic world.\nThere are no Islamic banks in "the West", including the USA, to my\nknowledge. I doubt if the market for them exists there -- at least not\nwhile "Islamic banks" are at a relatively early stage of their\ndevelopment as is the case now. BCCI is most certainly not an "Islamic\nbank" -- did BCCI ever pay a fixed interest rate on deposits? If the\nanswer to this question is "yes", then BCCI was not an Islamic bank, as\nIslamic banks are specifically set up to _not_ pay or charge interest.\n\nWhether some Muslims partially owned the bank or whatever is completely\nirrelevant. \n\n Fred Rice\n darice@yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au \n',
'From: kxgst1+@pitt.edu (Kenneth Gilbert)\nSubject: Re: cats and pregnancy\nOrganization: University of Pittsburgh\nLines: 16\n\nIn article <1993Apr27.043035.22609@etl.go.jp> klaus@ipri.go.jp (Klaus Hofmann;(6663)) writes:\n:Hello,\n:I heard that a certain disease (toxoplasmosys?) is transmitted by cats which\n:can harm the unborn fetus. Does anybody know about it? Is it a problem to \n:have a cat in the same apartment?\n:\n\nHaving the cat around is not a problem, but the pregnant woman should not\nchange the litter box. Toxoplasmosis can be transmitted from the stool of\nsome cats.\n\n-- \n=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-|-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=\n= Kenneth Gilbert __|__ University of Pittsburgh =\n= General Internal Medicine | "...dammit, not a programmer!" =\n=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-|-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=\n',
'From: muirm@argon.gas.organpipe.uug.arizona.edu (maxwell c muir)\nSubject: Re: Why do people become atheists?\nOrganization: University of Arizona, Tucson\nLines: 88\n\nIn article <May.11.02.38.47.1993.28306@athos.rutgers.edu> Fil.Sapienza@med.umich.edu (Fil Sapienza) writes:\n>In article <May.7.01.09.44.1993.14556@athos.rutgers.edu> maxwell c muir,\n>muirm@argon.gas.organpipe.uug.arizona.edu writes:\n>>of Faith (if you want to know, I feel that faith is intellectually\n>>dishonest). \n>\n>I\'d appreciate some support for this statement. I\'m not sure\n>it really makes sense to me.\n\nI define faith as "belief, in the abscense(sp?) of evidence". I also\ninclude in "evidence" past experiences. Because I have no past experience\nin a god actually having an effect on my life and because I have never\nseen evidence for any god beyond what can be explained without the\nneccessity of a god or which is more convincing than the many fictional\nworks I have read (And other reasons), I do not believe in any god(s).\nFrom what I have seen, some people reconcile this lack of evidence by\nusing faith.\nIt is faith in that sense (the only way I _currently_ understand the word\n"faith") that I find intellectually dishonest.\n\n>>The ambiguity of religious beliefs, an unwillingness to take\n>>Pascal\'s Wager, \n>\n>I\'ve heard this frequently - what exactly is Pascal\'s wager?\n\nPascal\'s wager goes something like this:\nPremise #1: Either there is or there isn\'t a God.\nPremise #2: If God exists, He wants us to believe and will damn us for not\nbelieving.\nPremise #3: If God does not exist, then belief in God doesn\'t matter\nbecause death is death, anyway.\nConclusion: Belief in God is superior to non-belief because\nnon-belief damns us to eternal punishment if we are wrong, while belief in\nGod only wastes a little time in life if we are wrong.\n\nSound pretty straightforward and is logically sound. The problem is,\nPremise #1 presupposes 1:1 odds between belief and non-belief. This is\nflat out wrong, because of the sheer number of religions out there and the\nfact that, for the most part, the religions are mutually exclusive. I have\nheard theists referred to as "99% atheists" because they believe in their\ngod (or gods) to be the _one_ god (or set of gods). The consequence of\nthis is "what if I pick the wrong god?" Suddenly, the odds don\'t look so\ngood because picking the wrong god or wrong doctrines of a god still\nleaves you with the possibility of being wrong and being damned to another\ngod\'s version of hell.\n\n>>\tDo I sound "broken" to you?\n>\n>I don\'t know. You point out that your mother\'s treatment upset you,\n>and see inconsistencies in various religions. I\'m not sure if that\n>constitutes broken-ness or not. It certainly consititutes \n>disillusionment.\n\nI don\'t see how "disillusionment" enters into it. You see, I presented my\nmother\'s treatment of me to show the cause of my questioning my atheism, a\nquestioning which continues to this day. I had already been an atheist for\nfive years before having any contact with my mother\'s version of\nChristianity. If anything, I had become somewhat disillusioned with\natheism (uh, oh, I thought, What if there *is* a God?). Yes, in a way, I\nhave also become disillusioned by many religions, simply because I had\nthought at one time that they had all the answers, if I only found the\nright one.\nI\'m still looking, but each time I look in a different place, I become a\nlittle stronger in my attitude (belief, if you will, no faith, though,\nit\'s based on the evidence of past experience) that I\'ll never find a\nreligion which has all the answers.\nSorta like looking for Easter eggs. The more time it takes you to find the\nnext one, the more convinced you become that you may already have found\nall the eggs you\'re going to find.\nSomeone else mentioned that critisism isn\'t going to make me think any\nmore highly of Christians. I have a contrary position: Constructive\ncritisism will likely improve my attitude towards Christians. Abusive\ncritisism will turn me off.\nNo accusations to you, Mr. Sapienza. I merely slipped that into this post\nbecause I forgot to reply to that one.\n\n>Filipp Sapienza\n>Department of Technology Services\n>University of Michigan Hospitals - Surgery\n>Fil.Sapienza@med.umich.edu\n\nMuppets and Garlic Toast forever.\n\nMax (Bob) Muir\n\nPS I\'m leaving for home on Thursday at 1:30, so this is likely my last\npost here for the summer! In the meantime, thank you all for helping me\nsee a few more things I might have missed in my meanderings through the world!\n',
'From: mls@panix.com (Michael Siemon)\nSubject: Re: ARSENOKOITAI: NT Meaning of\nOrganization: Panix Public Access Internet & Unix, NYC\nLines: 210\n\n\n\t\t\t Conviction of Sin\n\n\t\tA meta-exegetical or methodological essay\n\n\nIn article <May.14.02.10.06.1993.25123@athos.rutgers.edu>\nREXLEX@fnal.fnal.gov writes:\n\n>I can\'t post it all at once, so it will come piece meal and not daily.\n\nI look forward to reading it. When I got to the library last week, it\nwas with the object in view to look at some articles that have appeared\nover the last few years, since my previous look at the literature. Un-\nfortunately, they had moved the journal back-issues, so I didn\'t get a\nlook at the articles I was hoping to find. I will continue to reserve\nmy own judgment on _arsenokoitai_ until I have seen the latest scholarly\nwork, and I can hope that REXLEX\'s posting may give some meat to chew on.\n\nHowever, what I *can* do now, is to point out the methodological issues\n-- what needs to be shown for anything to be concluded in this matter.\nIf the article REXLEX posts addresses these issues, so much the better;\nif not, you will perhaps understand why the problem is hard.\n\n> James B. DeYoung\n\nwrites, _in abstractu_:\n\n>this study argues that Paul coined the term arsenokoitai, deriving it\n>from the LXX of Lev 20:12 (cf. 18:22) and using it for homosexual\n>orientation and behavior\n\n\t[it is only a minor point, but let me make it anyway; De Young has\n\talready contradicted his own prior assertion in this abstract that\n\tthe ancient analysis of these issues was concerned with actions and\n\tNOT with orientation. I doubt this will have much bearing on the\n\tarticle as such, but thought I should point it out from the start.]\n\nThe hypothesis De Young is advancing is that Paul a) coined the word and\nb) his intended meaning for it was in reference to the Levitical law. The\nquestions I wish to raise are\n\n\t1.) how would one go about confirming the truth of this hypothesis?\nand\t2.) what follows if one accepts (or stipulates, for the sake of the\n\t discussion) that it is correct?\n\nNote that b) is independent of a); I consider b) far more plausible than a),\nwhich seems merely to be a counsel of despair over finding nothing in the\nliterature contemporary with Paul to clarify this word. So far as I know,\nPaul does NOT in general invent words anywhere else in his letters. Unless\nyou have an otherwise-established pattern of coinages, it is *not* sound\nmethodology to assume it -- particularly if he gives no hint in the immedi-\nate text to "fix" the coinage\'s meaning for his audience.\n\nAs yet, the extract presents no evidence at all. What do we need to confirm\nor reject the hypothesis? (which, I should say at the outset, I find somewhat\nplausible; I certainly know of nothing which makes it an *impossible* way\nof construing this problem passage.) I\'m going to set aside for the moment\nthe question of whether Paul might have coined this usage, to look at the\nmore tractable question of what it means. For this there are, in principle,\ntwo kinds of evidence that can be adduced, internal and external. That is,\nwe can look at the text of Paul\'s letter for clarification or look outside\nthat to prior or contemporary writings that Paul might have relied on, or to\nderivative writings that have some claim of access to Paul\'s meaning.\n\nThe single WORST problem with this word in Corinthians is that there IS no\ninternal evidence for Paul\'s meaning. He uses the word totally without an\nexplanation or hint as to his meaning, save that its inclusion in a list of\nnegatives implies that it has for him SOME negative meaning.\n\nWe are left, as the only "internal" clue, with the etymology or formation\nof the word -- which is indeed the reason that De Young (and others before\nhim) have associated it with the Leviticus prohibition of men VERBing with\nother men, where VERB is some standard euphemism for having sex ("lie" in\nLeviticus, "bed" in Greek). One problem is that "bedders" (_-koitai_) is\nnot, as far as I know, USED that way in Greek. THEREFORE, I offer one\nserious test which de Young\'s hypothesis *must* pass or be rejected:\n\n\to find a body of Greek texts contemporary with Paul (or not much\n\t prior to his day) such that the _X-koitai_ formation implies\n\t "men who have sex with X" [obviously, the "best case" is to\n\t find such usages of _arsenokoitai_ itself.]\n\nsuch texts would be confirmation that the word *can* be read that way.\nIt is worth emphasizing that compound words are NOT in general under-\nstandable by projecting what the READER may imagine by the juxtaposition\nof the roots. Existence of such parallels doesn\'t *prove* the hypothesis\ncorrect -- but it goes a long way towards making such a usage (whether or\nnot original with Paul in the specific case of X == _arse:n_) possible\nof comprehension by his readers.\n\nMy "test" moves in the direction of external evidence. If Paul does NOT\nin his text explain his word (and he does not), then he has to expect his\nreaders to already know the word (which stands against its being a coinage)\nor to expect that it mimics word formations that they *do* know, such that\nthey can guess his meaning without too much floundering.\n\nExternal evidence, that is, texts other than Paul\'s own and lexicographic\nor social/historical considerations that might be adduced, then come into\nthe picture. *If* there are other uses of the word, not dependent on Paul,\nwhich *have* sufficient internal (contextual) evidence -- or some gloss by\na contemporary scribe -- to show a derogatory reference to male homosexu-\nality, or similar _-koitai_ formations used in similar ways, *then* one\nhas grounds for\n\n\to denying that Paul coined the word\nand\to assuming that his readers might understand his meaning\n\nDo you see the problem? If Paul coined the word, then he REQUIRES his\nreaders to share enough context with him to COMPREHEND his coinage and\nits intent -- in this case that they would (stipulating De Young\'s guess)\nunderstand him to be referring to the Levitical "universal" prohibition\nof male-male sex (this, mind you, in a context where Paul has emphasized\nat least to OTHER congregations (and so one assumes to the Corinthians --\nhow else to explain 1 Cor. 6:12, and the Corinthians having to be pulled\nback from overinterpreting their freedom?) the NON applicability of Torah\nlaw to his gentile converts!)\n\nAmong the considerations that make it implausible for Paul to have coined\nthe word, its first element is archaic -- _arse:n_ is an old Attic or\nIonic form of what in even classical (let alone koine) times would be\nassimilated as _arre:n_. To me, this implies that we are even more than\nusually needful of external evidence to pin down meaning and usage. What\nis Paul doing inventing a word in obsolete Attic formation?\n\nAnd if he *didn\'t* coin the word, but picked it up like the others in\nhis list as common terms of derogation, then his meaning will be -- for\nhis readers -- constrained by that common meaning (since he gives no\nother.)\n\nI cannot emphasize enough that Paul DOES NOT TELL US what he means by\nthis word. We (and his original readers) are guessing. They, at least,\nhad a contemporary context -- and maybe Paul had used this very word and\nexplained it in great detail to them in person. But we have no trace of\nevidence of that, and to *suppose* it is mere fantasy.\n\nSo -- we are *desperately* in need of external evidence about this word.\nAnd it seems to be exceptionally meagre. That is precisely the problem.\nI can think of several more or less equally plausible hypotheses about\nthe word:\n\n\ta) it was a standard gutter term of abuse for (some or all, maybe\n\t very specific, maybe very general) homosexual male activities\n\n\tb) it was a term of abuse used by Jews about the awful homosexual\n\t Greeks (which may or may not be consciously associated on their\n\t part with the Leviticus passage)\n\n\tc) Paul invented the term -- and again there may or may not be an\n\t association with Leviticus in his doing so. He may or may not\n\t intend the word to have an explicit and universal application\n\t with absolute and clear boundaries. [Since none of his OTHER\n\t words in that list have such character, this last seems to me\n\t about the *least* plausible of the hypotheses I\'m advancing.]\n\nOf these, I\'d say off the top of my head that a) is most plausible -- but\nI still have reservations about that, too.\n\nIf the word NEVER appears before Paul, and in later uses has some evidence\nof depending on Paul, then one can opt for Paul\'s coining it. If it does\nappear before him, he might *still* have coined it being unaware of prior\nuse (in which case, his coinage is inherently confusing!) but one should\nnormally demote c) on the basis of any earlier uses (especially if they\ncan be shown to have been at all common in the places Paul traveled.) In\neither of the a) or b) cases, one has to take into account Paul\'s relation\nto the community of usage he picked the word up from -- and whether it be\nfrom the Greek or Jewish communities, Paul\'s relations are hardly straight-\nforward!\n\nThere is, so far as I have yet seen, little or no external evidence to aid\nus in selecting one of these (or some other) hypothesis. Your guess is as\ngood as mine (or maybe worse or maybe better, depending on a lot of things).\nBut it remains -- so far -- guesswork. And I don\'t know about you, but I\nfor one WILL NOT equate human guesswork with the will of God. By all means\nbe convinced in your own conscience about what Paul is getting at -- as he\nsays elsewhere on what was in HIS day a major controversy of somewhat this\nsame character (Romans 14:22-23)\n\n\t"Hold on to your own belief, as between yourself and God -- and\n\tconsider the man fortunate who can make his decision without going\n\tagainst his conscience. But anybody who eats in a state of doubt\n\tis condemned, because he is not in good faith, and every act done\n\tin bad faith is a sin."\n\nFor my part, I cannot see any way to resolve Paul\'s meaning in the use of\n_arsenokoitai_ without directly applicable external evidence -- and by\nthe nature of such external evidence, it will never reach to certainty\nof constraining Paul\'s own intent. Paul, like Humpty Dumpty (and me, and\nall the rest of us) *will* use words in ways that are personal choices --\nand sometimes leave his readers puzzled. If that puzzlement leads you\nto God, it may be blessed -- if it should lead away (as some of Paul\'s\nwords HAVE led some people), then Paul\'s intense communicative effort to\ncontrive his meaning in our souls may have some regretable consequences.\nI have always found Paul to be a fantastically reliable guide -- if I\nread him "in the large", if I can see him lay out his position in detail\nand hammer it home time and time again. I am much less certain about his\nmeaning in his many brief and cryptic passages (such as this one.)\n\nIn my usual discursive way, I have gone on at great length about the first\nof my intended meta-exegetical points -- what would be needed to confirm\nthat Paul a) coined or b) in any case meant the word to mean the same as\nthe Leviticus prohibition. My second point is to *stipulate* this hypo-\nthesis, and follow up what it implies for both his initial readers and\nfor later Christians. Given my verbosity, this will be tomorrow night\'s\nmeditation :-)\n-- \nMichael L. Siemon\t\tI say "You are gods, sons of the\nmls@panix.com\t\t\tMost High, all of you; nevertheless\n - or -\t\t\tyou shall die like men, and fall\nmls@ulysses.att..com\t\tlike any prince." Psalm 82:6-7\n',
'From: PETCH@gvg47.gvg.tek.com (Chuck)\nSubject: Daily Verse\nLines: 4\n\nHave I not commanded you? Be strong and courageous. Do not be terrified; do not\nbe discouraged, for the LORD your God will be with you wherever you go."\n\nJoshua 1:9\n',
'From: beyer@alkymi.unit.no (Paal Beyer)\nSubject: Re: Information on BMP files ?\nOrganization: Norwegian Institute of Technology\nLines: 27\n\nIn article <gnbich.17@med.uovs.ac.za>, gnbich@med.uovs.ac.za (Charles Herbst - Biofisika) writes:\n|> \n|> Is there anybody who can help me with information on the BMP file format ?\n|> Please mail directly to\n|> \n|> \tgnbich@med.uovs.ac.za\n|> \n|> Help will be appreciated\n|> \n|> \n|> Charles Herbst\n|> \n|> \nI have also been looking for this, but I have come up with nothing.\nI have looked in ftp.ncsa.uiuc.edu which is supposed to have a lot\nof image-specs.\n\nEmail is preferred. If there is enough interest, I will post a \nsummary.\n\n------------------------------------------------------------------------ \n\n _/_/_/ _/_/_/ _/ _/ _/_/_/ _/_/_/\n _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/\n _/_/_/ _/_/_/ _/_/_/ _/_/_/ _/_/_/\n _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/\n_/_/_/ _/_/_/ _/ _/_/_/ _/ _/ @lise.unit.no\n',
"From: dt4%cs@hub.ucsb.edu (David E. Goggin)\nSubject: Dreams and out of body incidents\nLines: 38\n\nhey folks,\n\nI'm fairly new to these groups, tho' some have heard from me before.\n\nI'd like to get your comments on a question that has been on my mind a\nlot: What morals/ethics apply to dreams and out-of-body incidents?\nIn normal dreams, you can't control anything, so obviously\nyou aren't morally responsible for your actions. But if you can contrive\nto control the action in dreams or do an OOBE, it seems like a morality applies.\n\nNow, there seem to be 3 alternatives:\n\n1) Dreams and OOBEs are totally mental phenomena. In this case no morality\napplies beyond what might be called 'mental hygiene', that is, not trying\nto think about anything evil, or indulgining in overly sexy or violent\nthoughts.\n\n2) Dreams and OOBEs have a reality of their own (i.e. are 'another plane')\nEvidence for this is that often dreams and OOBEs are sometimes done in\ncommon by more than one person. A\nmark of objective fact is that >1 people report the same objective experience.\nIn this case, the same interpersonal morality/ethics applies in dreams and\nOOBEs as does in waking life.\n\n3) Like (2), but here we assume that though the dreeam and OOBE environs have a\nreal existence, a different moral/ethics apply there, and no (or maybe \ndifferent) moral laws apply there.\n\nSo... There it is. Is one of these cases the truth, or does anyone know\nof another alternative? respond by post or email.\n\nthanks very much\n\n*dt*\n\n========================================================\n\n.\n",
"From: lioness@maple.circa.ufl.edu\nSubject: Kubota vs. E&S Freedome\nOrganization: Center for Instructional and Research Computing Activities\nLines: 70\nReply-To: LIONESS@ufcc.ufl.edu\nNNTP-Posting-Host: maple.circa.ufl.edu\n\n\nMore people have been asking for information on the Kubota graphics\nworkstations, so here is some more info on the Kenai/Denali vs. the\nE&S Freedom.\n\n\nHere is the text of a Denali vs. E&S Freedom done by D.H. Brown Associates.\n\n------\n\nDenali bears a strong resemblance to Evans and Sutherlands Freedom graphics\nsubsystem in several aspects of its high-level design. Both products use\na parallel array of 29050 processors for geometric computations. Both\nhave a pixel router to connect this front end to a second array of\npixel processors. As a result, Denali and Freedome overlap significantly\nin performance and functionality. Both design teams also appear to have \nsimilar philosophies with respect to modularity, scalability, and market\npenetration.\n\nThere remain, however, several important differences between the KPC and\nE&S products. Evans and Sutherland designed Freedom as a high-end\ndeveloper's dream system with plenty of performance potential and\nflexibility. In its favor, Freedom has configurations from two to\nsixteen floating point units, a border range that starts and ends at\na higher price and performance levels than Denali. All Freedom\nsystems include a large, fixed number of pixel processors that\nsupport a broader variety of color blending functions. The Freedom\ndesign treats its entire image memory as general-purpose memory, allowing\ndevelopers to allocate it on a flexible basis to a number of special-purpose\napplications. Finally, E&S provided Freedom with very flexible otput and\nvideo integration features for multimedia and simulation applications. Note\nthat KPC is working an auxiliary board for NTSC and PAL output that will not\nrequire an external video encoder. E&S programmable output features,\nhowever, will remain much more flexible.\n\nThe KPC design team, in contrast, made Denali more of an end-user's system.\nEntry version have better performance range and flexibility than low-end\nFreedom configurations, and come in at more realistic mainstream price\npoints. Denali does not need as many 29050 modules as Freedome because\nit uses a deeper scan-conversion pipeline to support each one, resulting\nin better cost/performance characteristics. Although both products provide\nstrong support for 3D, imaging, and volume rendering, KPC recognized that\nnot all users will want an even mix of these capabilities. Denali's\nconfiguration flexibility allows customers in effect to purchase\ngeometric and pixel processing capabilities separately, and to upgrade\nthem separately as needed.\n\nBoth companies have implemented hardware texture mapping at\nworkstation price levels as a way to attack SGI's more expensive\nVGXT and RealityEngine systems -- the only other products to provide\nthis capability. KPC supports point sampling and bilinear interpolation\nof textures in hardware, but provides only software support for the higher\nqualtiy tri-linear interpolated mipmapping method. On balance, however, Denali\nprovideds bettern overall texturing capabilities than E&S for most applications.\nAside from being much more affordable, KPC solutions deliver more parallelism\nfor texture processing and more off-screen memory for general graphics\ndata storage. By implementing texture mapping on its transformation\nmodules, E&S foces customers to move very quickly to higher price levels\nto obtain better texturing performance. Kubota avoids this problem by linking\ntexturing to its Frame Buffer Modules, providing a lower-cost, more scalable\nsolution.\n\nHope this helps,\n\nBrian\n\nPS This was reprinted without permission. For the full text, please contact\nKubota 408-727-8100.\n\n\n",
'From: mdw@violin.hr.att.com (Mark Wuest)\nSubject: Re: Boston C of C\nOrganization: AT&T\nLines: 27\n\nAside to the moderator:\n\nIn article <May.13.02.30.00.1993.1520@geneva.rutgers.edu> Rick_Granberry@pts.mot.com (Rick Granberry) writes:\n\n><see below...>\n\nI won\'t quote any of it, but there are several errors in the article.\nNot things that are just differences of opinion, but the writer just\nplain has his facts confused.\n\nFor example, Kip McKean was *asked* to come to the Lexington church\nby the leaders there. He brought no team. He actually had been in\nCharleston, IL up to that point. He had many friends, even leaders in\nGainesville, telling him not to go, because people in the Northeast\nweren\'t "open" and he\'d be wasting his time and talents. Really!!\n(This fact was a kind of "inside joke" at one point after the church\nin Boston took off so well... Not open, indeed!) ;-)\n\nI could take it on point by point, but I am not in a position to know\none way or the other about some things in the article. I just wanted\nto point out that it contains misinformation.\n\nMark\n-- \nMark Wuest | *MY* opinions, not AT&T\'s!!\nmdw@violin.hr.att.com (Sun Mailtool Ok) |\nmdw@trumpet.hr.att.com (NeXT Mail) |\n',
"From: gpivar@maestro.mitre.org (Greg Pivarnik)\nSubject: Re: Krillean Photography\nNntp-Posting-Host: maestro.mitre.org\nReply-To: gpivar@mitre.org(The Pancake Emporium)\nOrganization: The MITRE Corporation, McLean, Va\nLines: 27\n\nIn article <1993Apr22.211005.21578@scorch.apana.org.au>, bill@scorch.apana.org.au (Bill Dowding) writes:\n|> todamhyp@charles.unlv.edu (Brian M. Huey) writes:\n|> \n|> >I think that's the correct spelling..\n|> >\tI am looking for any information/supplies that will allow\n|> >do-it-yourselfers to take Krillean Pictures. I'm thinking\n|> >that education suppliers for schools might have a appartus for\n|> >sale, but I don't know any of the companies. Any info is greatly\n|> >appreciated.\n|> \n|> Krillean photography involves taking pictures of minute decapods resident in \n|> the seas surrounding the antarctic. Or pictures taken by them, perhaps.\n|> \n|> Bill from oz\n|> \n\n\nBill,\nNo flame intended but you're way, way off base. In simple terms Kirilian\nphotography registers the electromagnetical fields around objects, in simple,\nit takes pictures of your aura.\n|> \n\n-- \nGreg \n\n-- Be still, be silent...the rest is easy. --\n",
'From: sandvik@newton.apple.com (Kent Sandvik)\nSubject: Re: some thoughts.\nOrganization: Cookamunga Tourist Bureau\nLines: 31\n\nIn article <C5rEyF.4CE@darkside.osrhe.uoknor.edu>, bil@okcforum.osrhe.edu\n(Bill Conner) wrote:\n> Kent Sandvik (sandvik@newton.apple.com) wrote:\n> : In article <11838@vice.ICO.TEK.COM>, bobbe@vice.ICO.TEK.COM (Robert\n> : Beauchaine) wrote:\n> : > Someone spank me if I\'m wrong, but didn\'t Lord, Liar, or Lunatic\n> : > originate with C.S. Lewis? Who\'s this Campollo fellow anyway?\n> \n> : I do think so, and isn\'t there a clear connection with the "I do\n> : believe, because it is absurd" notion by one of the original\n> : Christians (Origen?).\n> \n> There is a similar statement attributed to Anselm, "I believe so that\n> I may understand". In both cases reason is somewhat less exalted than\n> anyone posting here could accept, which means that neither statement\n> can be properly analysed in this venue.\n\nBill, I think you have a misunderstanding about atheism. Lack of \nbelief in God does not directly imply lack of understanding\ntranscendental values. I hope you would accept the fact that \nfor instance Buddhists appreciate issues related to non-empirical\nreasoning without the need to automatically believe in theism.\n\nI think reading a couple of books related to Buddhism might \nrevise and fine tune your understanding of non-Christian systems.\n\nCheers,\nKent\n\n---\nsandvik@newton.apple.com. ALink: KSAND -- Private activities on the net.\n',
'From: revdak@netcom.com (D. Andrew Kille)\nSubject: Re: Homosexuality issues in Christianity\nOrganization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)\nLines: 38\n\nDan Schaertel,,, (dps@nasa.kodak.com) wrote:\n: In article 15441@geneva.rutgers.edu, loisc@microsoft.com (Lois Christiansen) writes:\n\n: |>You might visit some congregations of Christians, who happen to be homosexuals,\n: |>that are spirit-filled believers, not MCC\'rs; before you go lumping us all\n: |>together with Troy Perry. \n: |>\n\n: Gee, I think there are some real criminals (robbers, muderers, drug\n: addicts) who appear to be fun loving caring people too. So what\'s\n: your point? Is it OK. just because the people are nice?\n\nThe point is not about being "nice." "Nice" is not a christian virtue. The\npoint is that the gifts and fruits of the spirit (by their fruits you shall\nknow them- Mt 7:20) are manifested by and among prayerful, spirit-filled\nGAY christians. It was the manifestation of the spirit among the gentiles\nthat convinced Peter (Acts 10) that his prejudice against them (based on\nscripture, I might add) was not in accordance with God\'s intentions.\n\n: I think the old saying " hate the sin and not the sinner" is\n: appropriate here. Many who belive homosexuality is wrong probably\n: don\'t hate the people. I don\'t. I don\'t hate my kids when they do\n: wrong either. But I tell them what is right, and if they lie or don\'t\n: admit they are wrong, or just don\'t make an effort to improve or\n: repent, they get punished. I think this is quite appropriate. You\n: may want to be careful about how you think satan is working here.\n: Maybe he is trying to destroy our sense of right and wrong through\n: feel goodism. Maybe he is trying to convince you that you know more\n: than God. Kind of like the Adam and Eve story. Read it and compare\n: it to today\'s mentality. You may be suprised.\n\nOf course the whole issue is one of discernment. It may be that Satan\nis trying to convince us that we know more than God. Or it may be that\nGod is trying (as God did with Peter) to teach us something we don\'t\nknow- that "God shows no partiality, but in every nation anyone who fears\nhim and does what is right is acceptable to him." (Acts 10:34-35).\n\nrevdak@netcom.com\n',
'From: aiken@unity.ncsu.edu (Wayne NMI Aiken)\nSubject: Re: Mottos to replace "In doG we trust"\nOrganization: NCSU\nX-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]\nLines: 18\n\nAndrew Hilmer (hilmera@storm.cs.orst.edu) wrote:\n: At the risk of beginning a cascade, I\'ll start with a possibly cheesy\n: good \'ol Uhmericun:\n\n: "Our shield is freedom"\n\nOr, considering what our government has been doing for the past 50 years,\nperhaps this would be more appropriate:\n\n "100% Debt"\n\n--\n\nHoly Temple of Mass $ >>> slack@ncsu.edu <<< $ "My used underwear\n Consumption! $ $ is legal tender in\nPO Box 30904 $ BBS: (919) 782-3095 $ 28 countries!"\nRaleigh, NC 27622 $ Warning: I hoard pennies. $ --"Bob"\n\n',
'From: mserv@mozart.cc.iup.edu (Mail Server)\nSubject: Re: homosexual issues in Christianity\nLines: 76\n\nwhitsebd@nextwork.rose-hulman.edu (Bryan Whitsell) sent in a list of verses \nwhich he felt condemn homosexuality. mls@panix.com (Michael Siemon) wrote in \nresponse that some of these verses "are used against us only through incredibly \nperverse interpretations" and that others "simply do not address the issues."\n\nIn response, I wrote:\n>I can see that some of the above verses do not clearly address the issues, \n>however, a couple of them seem as though they do not require "incredibly \n>perverse interpretations" in order to be seen as condemning homosexuality.\n> \n>"... Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolators, nor adulterers, \n>nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, \n>nor revilers, nor swindlers, shall inherit the kingdom of God. And such were \n>some of you..." I Cor. 6:9-11.\n> \n>Would someone care to comment on the fact that the above seems to say\n>fornicators will not inherit the kingdom of God? How does this apply\n>to homosexuals? I understand "fornication" to be sex outside of\n>marriage. Is this an accurate definition? Is there any such thing as\n>same-sex marriage in the Bible? My understanding has always been that\n>the New Testament blesses sexual intercourse only between a husband\n>and his wife. I am, however, willing to listen to Scriptural evidence\n>to the contrary.\n[remainder of my post deleted] The moderator then made some comments I would \nlike to address:\n\n>[There\'s some ambiguity about the meaning of the words in the passage\n>you quote. Both liberal and conservative sources seem to agree that\n>"homosexual" is not the general term for homosexuals, but is likely to\n>have a meaning like homosexual prostitute. That doesn\'t meant that I\n>think all the Biblical evidence vanishes, but the nature of the\n>evidence is such that you can\'t just quote one verse and solve things.\n\nIf you are referring to the terms "effeminate" and "homosexuals" in\nthe above passage, I agree that the accuracy of the translation has\nbeen challenged. However, I was simply commenting on the charge that\nit is an "incredibly perverse" interpretation to read this as a\ncondemnation of homosexuality. Such a charge seems to imply that no\nreasonable person would ever conclude from the verse that Paul\nintended to condemn homosexuality; however, I think I can see how a\nreasonable person might very well take this view of the verse.\nTherefore I do not believe it is "incredibly perverse" to read it in\nthis way.\n\n>I think your argument from fornication is circular. Why is\n>homosexuality wrong? Because it\'s fornication. Why is it\n>fornication? Because they\'re not married. Why aren\'t they married?\n>Because the church refuses to do a marriage ceremony. Why does the\n>church refuse to do a marriage ceremony? Because homosexuality is\n>wrong. In order to break the circle there\'s got to be some other\n>reason to think homosexuality is wrong.\n> \n>--clh]\n\nActually, I wasn\'t thinking of the church at all. After all, a couple\ndoesn\'t have to be married by a minister. A secular justice of the\npeace could do the job, and the two people would be married. My point\nwas that it is easy to find a biblical basis for heterosexual\nmarriage, but where in the Bible would one get a Christian marriage\nbetween two people of the same sex? And if you do see a biblical\nbasis for same-sex marriages, how willing would gay Christians be to\n"save themselves" for such a marriage and to never have sexual\nintercourse with anyone outside of that marriage relationship? Please\nnote that I am not trying to imply that gay Christians would not be\nwilling to be so monogamous, I am genuinely interested in hearing\nopinions on the subject. I have heard comments from gays in the past\nthat lead me to believe they regard promiscuity as one of the main\npoints of being homosexual, yet I tend to doubt that gays who want to\nbe Christian would advocate such a position. So what is the gay view?\n\n- Mark\n\n[Yes, I agree that a reasonable person might conclude that Paul is\ncondemning homosexuality. I was responding to certain details of\nyour posting. That doesn\'t mean I agree with Michael in all\nrespects. --clh]\n',
"From: matthews@Oswego.EDU (Harry Matthews)\nSubject: Re: Pregnency without sex?\nReply-To: matthews@oswego.Oswego.EDU (Harry Matthews)\nOrganization: Instructional Computing Center, SUNY at Oswego, Oswego, NY\nLines: 7\n\nAll right, listen up.... What are the possibilities of transmission through\nswimming pool water? Especially if the chlorination isn't up to par?\n\nI've heard of community swimming pools refered to as PUBLIC URINALS so what\nelse is going on?\n\n\n",
"From: taob@r-node.hub.org (Brian Tao)\nSubject: Re: Pregnency without sex?\nOrganization: MuGS Research and Development Facility\nX-Newsreader: MuGS 3.0d16 [Apr 22 93]\nTo: matthews@oswego.Oswego.EDU (Harry Matthews)\nReply-To: taob@r-node.hub.org\nLines: 11\n\nIn article <1993Apr27.182155.23426@oswego.Oswego.EDU>, Harry Matthews writes...\n> \n> I've heard of community swimming pools refered to as PUBLIC URINALS so what\n> else is going on?\n\n Do you swim nude in a public swimming pool? :) I doubt sperm can\npenetrate swimsuit material, assuming they aren't immediately dispersed\nby water currents.\n-- \nBrian Tao:: taob@r-node.hub.org (r-Node BBS, 416-249-5366, FREE!)\n::::::::::: 90taobri@wave.scar.utoronto.ca (University of Toronto)\n",
'From: jmunch@hertz.elee.calpoly.edu (John Munch)\nSubject: Re: The Qur\'an and atheists (was Re: Jewish Settlers Demolish a Mosque in Gaza)\nOrganization: California Polytechnic State University, San Luis Obispo\nLines: 20\n\nIn article <1993Apr26.070405.3615@doug.cae.wisc.edu> kahraman@hprisc-30.cae.wisc.edu (Gokalp Kahraman) writes:\n>In this respect, since atheists are dominantly arrogant and claim \n>self-control and self-ownership, they would make pharoahs \n>look like very humble, decent people in comparison! If the logic is this:\n>"since I own myself, others who are like me should also own themselves, and\n>going further, things are self-existent and self-standing, and self-living,\n>etc." \n\nYes, atheists tend to claim self control and self ownership. Are you saying\nthat theists claim to not have self control? I don\'t think atheists are\n"dominantly arrogant." They don\'t claim some god that has supremacy over\nall of mankind. Now this claim would be arrogant, but atheists don\'t claim \nit. Most atheists do claim to own themselves. I think any disagreement with\nthis claim of self ownership would be supremely arrogant.\n\n\n/---- John David Munch ------------------ jmunch@hertz.elee.calpoly.edu ----\\\n|...." the heart can change, be full of hate, or love. If people are allowed|\n|to base their lives through their hearts, anything can happen. A dangerous |\n|situation, in my opinion." -Bobby Mozumder describing problems with atheism|\n',
'From: JEK@cu.nih.gov\nSubject: Trinity\nLines: 27\n\nJames Green writes:\n\n > Can\'t someone describe someone\'s trinity in simple declarative\n > sentences that have common meaning?\n\nI offer him four attempts.\n\nFirst is an essay by me (largely indebted to Attempts Two and\nThree), obtainable by sending the message GET TRINITY ANALOGY to\nLISTSERV@ASUACAD.BITNET or to LISTSERV@ASUVM.INRE.ASU.EDU\n\nSecond is a couple of books by Dorothy L Sayers: a play called THE\nZEAL OF THY HOUSE, and a non-fiction book called THE MIND OF THE\nMAKER. The play can be found in the book FOUR SACRED PLAYS, and\nalso in various other collections, including one called RELIGIOUS\nDRAMA (Meridian Books) and one called BEST PLAYS OF 1937.\n\nThird is the book MERE CHRISTIANITY by C S Lewis, particularly the\nlast section, called "Beyond Personality".\n\nFourth is a book called THEOLOGY FOR BEGINNERS, by the Roman\nCatholic writer Frank Sheed. I will say that I do not find Sheed\'s\napproach altogether satisfying, but I know some persons whose minds\nI respect who do.\n\n Yours,\n James Kiefer\n',
'From: daless@di.unipi.it (Antonella Dalessandro)\nSubject: Epilepsy and video games\nOrganization: Dipartimento di Informatica, Universita\' di Pisa\nLines: 23\n\nThere have been a few postings in the past on alleged pathological \n(esp. neurological) conditions induced by playing video games\n(e.g. Nintendo). Apparently, there have been reported several cases of\n"photosensitive epilepsy", due to the flashing of some\npatterns and the strong attention of the (young) players.\nOne poster to comp.risks reported some action from\nthe British Government.\n\nA quick search in a database reported the following two published\nreferences:\n\n1. E.J. Hart, Nintendo epilepsy, in New England J. of Med., 322(20), 1473\n2. TK Daneshmend et al., Dark Warrior epilepsy, BMJ 1982; 284:1751-2.\n\nI would appreciate if someone could post (or e-mail) \nany reference to (preferably published) further work on the subject.\nAny pointer to other information and/or to possible technical tools \n(if any) for reducing the risks are appreciated.\n\nMany thanks,\n\nAntonella D\'Alessandro,\nPisa -- Italy.\n',
'From: backon@vms.huji.ac.il\nSubject: Re: net address for WHO\nDistribution: world\nOrganization: The Hebrew University of Jerusalem\nLines: 32\n\nIn article <1993Apr24.162351.4408@mintaka.lcs.mit.edu>, elg@silver.lcs.mit.edu (Elizabeth Glaser) writes:\n> I am looking for the email address of the World Health Organization,\n> in particular the address for the Department of Nursing or the Chief\n> Scientist for Nursing: Dr. Miriam Hirschfeld. The snail-mail address I\n> have is the following:\n>\n> World Health Organization\n> 20 Avenue Appia\n> 1211 Geneva 27\n> Switzerland\n\nThe domain address of the WHO is: who.arcom.ch\nSo try sending email to postmaster@who.arcom.ch\n\nJosh\nbackon@VMS.HUJI.AC.IL\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n>\n> Please respond directly to me. Thank you for your assistance.\n>\n>\n>\n> --- elg ---\n>\n> Elizabeth Glaser, RN\n> elg@silver.lcs.mit.edu\n',
"From: nagle@netcom.com (John Nagle)\nSubject: Oriented bounding box generation?\nSummary: Want bounding box generator\nKeywords: bounding box oriented 3D\nOrganization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)\nLines: 12\n\n I'm looking for code that will generate a minimum-volume oriented\nbounding box for an arbitrary polyhedron. Anyone know of such code?\n\n Why? I'm converting objects from\none modelling system into another, and the destination system is object\noriented. So I want to represent each object in its own coordinate system,\nthat of its bounding box, with the objects then translated and rotated\nappropriately, this being the representation used in the destination\nsystem.\n\n\t\t\t\t\tJohn Nagle\n\n",
"From: nyeda@cnsvax.uwec.edu (David Nye)\nSubject: Re: Faith and Dogma\nOrganization: University of Wisconsin Eau Claire\nLines: 28\n\n[reply to tgk@cs.toronto.edu (Todd Kelley)]\n \n>In light of what happened in Waco, I need to get something of my chest.\n \n>Faith and dogma are dangerous.\n \nAgreed.\n \n>A philosopher cannot be a Christian because a philosopher can change\n>his mind, whereas a Christian cannot, due to the nature of faith and\n>dogma present in any religion.\n \nIt is hard for me to understand, but quite a few professional scientists\nand philosophers are theists.\n \n>Sure, religion has many good qualities. It encourages benevolence and\n>philanthropy.\n \nBut also intolerance and superstition. I'm not sure that in the balance\nit is not detrimental.\n \n>Wouldn't it be nice if everyone were a secular humanist?\n \nSure would!\n \nDavid Nye (nyeda@cnsvax.uwec.edu). Midelfort Clinic, Eau Claire WI\nThis is patently absurd; but whoever wishes to become a philosopher\nmust learn not to be frightened by absurdities. -- Bertrand Russell\n",
'From: ray@engr.LaTech.edu (Bill Ray)\nSubject: Re: Who Says the Apostles Were Tortured?\nOrganization: Louisiana Tech University\nLines: 20\nDistribution: world\nNNTP-Posting-Host: ee02.engr.latech.edu\nX-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]\n\n: The willingness of true believers\n: to die for their belief, be it in Jesus or Jim Jones, is\n: well-documented, so martyrdom in and of itself says little.\n\nIt does say something about the depth of their belief. Religion has\nboth deluded believers and con men. The difference is often how far\nthey will follow their beliefs.\n\nI have no first hand, or even second hand, knowledge of how the \noriginal apostles died. If they began a myth in hopes of exploiting\nit for profit, and followed that myth to the death, that would be\ninconsistent. Real con men would bail out when it was obvious it would \nlead to discomfort, pain and death.\n\nThe story in 1 Kings regarding the 450 prophets of Baal is of no\nhelp in this debate. One can easily assume that they believed that\nno overwhelming vindication of Elijah would be forthcoming. He was\nsimply a fool, who would be shown to be so. The fire from heaven was\nswift and their seizure and deaths were equally swift.\n\n',
"From: christen@astro.ocis.temple.edu (Carl Christensen)\nSubject: Re: Books\nOrganization: Temple University\nLines: 4\nNntp-Posting-Host: astro.ocis.temple.edu\nX-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]\n\n[stuff about hard to find atheist books deleted]\n\nPerhaps the infiltration of fundies onto school boards, city councils,\netc. has something to do with why you can't find alternative media?\n",
'From: lsvedin@worf (Lynn Svedin)\nSubject: Re: Mormon Temples\nOrganization: NASA\nLines: 6\n\n[On secrecy in LDS ceremonies. --clh]\n\nI think christ summed it up quite nicely when he said something about\n"casting pearls before swine." Why tell people things that are most\nsacred to you when all they will do with it is belittle it. You have\nto be little to belittle.\n',
'From: gt7122b@prism.gatech.edu (Randal Lee Nicholas Mandock)\nSubject: Hail Mary, Full of Grace\nOrganization: Georgia Institute of Technology\nLines: 62\n\nIn article <May.14.02.11.19.1993.25177@athos.rutgers.edu> seanna@bnr.ca (Seanna (S.M.) Watson) writes:\n>In article <May.9.05.39.52.1993.27456@athos.rutgers.edu> jhpb@sarto.budd-lake.nj.us (Joseph H. Buehler) writes:\n>[referring to Mary]\n>>She was immaculately conceived, and so never subject to Original Sin,\n>>but also never committed a personal sin in her whole life. This was\n>>possible because of the special degree of grace granted to her by God.\n\n>I have quite a problem with the idea that Mary never committed a sin.\n>Was Mary fully human? If it is possible for God to miraculously make \n>a person free of original sin, and free of committing sin their whole\n>life, then what is the purpose of the Incarnation of Jesus? Why can\'t\n>God just repeat the miracle done for Mary to make all the rest of us\n>sinless, without the need for repentance and salvation and all that?\n\n>I don\'t particularly object to the idea of the assumption, or the\n>perpetual virginity (both of which I regard as Catholic dogma about which\n>I will agree to disagree with my Catholic brothers and sisters in\n>Christ), and I even believe in the virgin birth of Jesus, but this\n>concept of Mary\'s sinlessness seems to me to be at odds with the\n>rest of Christian doctrine as I understand it.\n\n\nIf you don\'t agree with Joseph\'s accurate statement of the Catholic dogma\nof Mary\'s perpetual sinlessness, then how do you interpret Luke 1:28,\n\n\tAnd when the angel had come to her, he said, "Hail, full of \n\tgrace, the Lord is with thee. Blessed art thou among women."\n\nand Luke 1:48? \n\n\t...for, behold, henceforth all generations shall call me blessed.\n\nI suppose that these verses might be interpreted to mean that Mary was\npossessed of some limited quantity or quality of grace, just as some of \nus are, but it seems to me that "full of grace" means just what it says: \nfilled to the brim, incapable of containing more. The only other people we \nknow of who have an abundance of grace are those souls existing in heaven now \n(another Catholic dogma, based on the communion of saints, as I explained in \nan earlier post). Full of grace to me means sinless, and anyone who has \never sinned in his life cannot be without sin in the same sense as Mary \nwas sinless. \n\nAs a Catholic, I too find certain of the dogmas tough to embrace. But\nthat\'s where the Catholic faith and prayer come into play. I pray God\nto strengthen my will to accept the faith given the bride of Christ,\nwhich in turn usually strengthens my community faith in His Church. And,\nas you probably know, faith in Christ\'s Church is tantamount to faith in\nChrist inasmuch as the Church is Christ\'s Mystical Body. A Catholic by\nnature must have two aspects to his faith in Christ: (1) a personal faith in \nChrist as his own personal redeemer and (2) a community faith in the Church \nas the body of Christ.\n\n \n-- \nRandal Lee Nicholas Mandock \nCatechist\ngt7122b@prism.gatech.edu \n\n[You might want to check the Greek. "full of grace" translates a\nsingle word that simply means "favored", or perhaps more literally,\n"graced". The "full" is a vestige of the specific translation you\'re\nusing. --clh]\n',
'From: swf@elsegundoca.ncr.com (Stan Friesen)\nSubject: Re: SJ Mercury\'s reference to Fundamentalist Christian parents\nReply-To: swf@elsegundoca.ncr.com\nLines: 49\n\nIn article <May.11.02.37.07.1993.28120@athos.rutgers.edu>, dan@ingres.com (a Rose arose) writes:\n|> In the Monday, May 10 morning edition of the San Jose Mercury News an\n|> article by Sandra Gonzales at the top of page 12A explained convicted\n|> killer David Edwin Mason\'s troubled childhood saying,\n|> \n|> \t"Raised in Oakland and San Lorenzo by strict fundamentalist\n|> \tChristian parents, Mason was beaten as a child. ...\n|> \t[other instances of child abuse deleted]\n|> \n|> Were the San Jose Mercury news to come out with an article starting with\n|> "Raised in Oakland by Mexican parents, Mason was beaten...", my face would\n|> be red with anger over the injustice done to my Mexican family members and\n|> the Mexican community as a whole. ...\n|> \n|> Why is it that open biggotry like this is practiced and encouraged by the\n|> San Jose Mercury News when it is pointed at the christian community?\n\nPerhaps because there is a connection here that is not there in the Mexican\nvariant you bring up.\n\nThat is, many (not all) extreme fundamentalist Christians use the excuse of\nteaching their children Biblical morality to justify this sort of mistreatment.\nI do not see many Mexicans using their Mexican heritage as an excuse for abuse.\n\nIt is indeed this judgemental, controlling legalism of many fundamentalist\nChristians that has led me to reject that branch of our faith as not true\nto the Gospel of Christ, the gospel of love.\n\nI have seen this sort of thing too often, even amoung my own relatives, to\nbelieve there is no relationship. Judgementalism often leads to overly\nstrict, and thus abusive, discipline of children.\n[This is not restricted to just Christian fundamentalism, it is found in\nmany extreme sects of other legalistic religions].\n\n|> Can a good christian continue to purchase newspapers and buy advertising in\n|> this kind of a newspaper? This is really bad journalism.\n|> \nI, too, am a Christian. But I do not condone the use of the Bible to justify\nthis sort of abuse. I believe that it is only by exposing the horrors of\nthe misapplication of the Biblical concept of discipline that such abuses\ncan be stopped.\n\nJust because someone is also a Christian does not mean we must identify\neith them. This sort of sin needs to be made public.\n\n-- \nsarima@teradata.com\t\t\t(formerly tdatirv!sarima)\n or\nStanley.Friesen@ElSegundoCA.ncr.com\n',
"From: raj@phys.ksu.edu (S. Raj Chaudhury)\nSubject: Re: Needed: Plotting package that does...\nOrganization: Kansas State University\nLines: 28\nNNTP-Posting-Host: piaget.phys.ksu.edu\n\nIn <C5qGF5.K2I@alta-oh.com> chris@zeus.alta-oh.com (Chris Murphy) writes:\n\n>In article <FULL_GL.93Apr18005752@dolphin.pts.mot.com>, full_gl@pts.mot.com (Glen Fullmer) writes:\n>|> Looking for a graphics/CAD/or-whatever package on a X-Unix box that will\n>|> take a file with records like:\n\n>Hi,\n> See Roger Grywalski's response to :\n\n>Re: Help on network visualization\n\n>in comp.graphics.visualization.\n\nCould someone please post Roger Grywalski's response? Or point me to where\nI could find it?\n\nThanks a lot,\n\n\nS. Raj Chaudhury\t\t\t|\nDept. of Physics \t\t\t| raj@phys.ksu.edu\nKansas State University\t\t\t|\nManhattan, KS 66506\t\t\t|\n--\nS. Raj Chaudhury\t\t\t|\nDept. of Physics \t\t\t| raj@phys.ksu.edu\nKansas State University\t\t\t|\nManhattan, KS 66506\t\t\t|\n",
'From: nfotis@ntua.gr (Nick C. Fotis)\nSubject: (27 Apr 93) Computer Graphics Resource Listing : WEEKLY [part 1/3]\nLines: 1594\nReply-To: nfotis@theseas.ntua.gr (Nick (Nikolaos) Fotis)\nOrganization: National Technical Univ. of Athens\n\nArchive-name: graphics/resources-list/part1\nLast-modified: 1993/04/27\n\n\nComputer Graphics Resource Listing : WEEKLY POSTING [ PART 1/3 ]\n===================================================\nLast Change : 27 April 1993\n\nMany FAQs, including this Listing, are available on the archive site\npit-manager.mit.edu (alias rtfm.mit.edu) [18.172.1.27] in the directory\npub/usenet/news.answers. The name under which a FAQ is archived appears\nin the Archive-name line at the top of the article.\nThis FAQ is archived as graphics/resources-list/part[1-3]\n\nThere\'s a mail server on that machine. You send a e-mail message to\nmail-server@pit-manager.mit.edu containing the keyword "help" (without\nquotes!) in the message body.\n\nYou can see in many other places for this Listing. See the item:\n\n0. Places to find the Resource Listing\n\nfor more information.\n\nItems Changed:\n--------------\n\nRE-ARRANGED the subjects, in order to fir better in the 63K/article limit.\nI PLAN ON CHANGING HEADERS SOON, SO BE CAREFUL! ONLY THE "Resource Listing"\nkeys are sure to remain in the Subject: line!\n\n3. Computer graphics FTP site list, by Eric Haines\n4. Mail servers and graphics-oriented BBSes\n9. Plotting packages\n\n[ I\'m thinking of making this post bi-weekly. What do you think??? ]\n\n--------------\n\nLines which got changed, have the `#\' character in front of them.\nAdded lines are prepended with a `+\'\nRemoved lines are just removed. Use \'diff\' to locate these changes.\n\n========================================================================\n\nThis text is (C)Copyright 1992, 1993 of Nikolaos C. Fotis. You can copy\nfreely this file, provided you keep this copyright notice intact.\n\nCompiled by Nikolaos (Nick) C. Fotis, e-mail: nfotis@theseas.ntua.gr\n\nPlease contact me for updates,corrections, etc.\n\nDisclaimer: I do not guarantee the accuracy of this document.\nUse it at your own risk.\n\n========================================================================\n\nThis is mainly a guide for computer graphics software.\nI would suggest reading the Comp. Graphics FAQ for image analysis stuff.\n\nIt\'s entitled: \n (date) comp.graphics Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ)\n\n John T. Grieggs <grieggs@jpl-devvax.jpl.nasa.gov> is the poster of the\n official comp.graphics FAQ\n\nI have included my comments within braces \'[\' and \']\'.\n\nNikolaos Fotis\n\n========================================================================\n\nContents of the Resource Listing\n================================\n\nPART1:\n------\n0. Places to find the Resource Listing\n1. ARCHIE\n2. Notes\n3. Computer graphics FTP site list, by Eric Haines\n4. Mail servers and graphics-oriented BBSes\n5. Ray-tracing/graphics-related mailing lists.\n6. 3D graphics editors\n a. Public domain, free and shareware systems\n b. Commercial systems\n7. Scene description languages\n8. Solids description formats\n\nPART2:\n------\n\n9. Plotting packages\n10. Image analysis software - Image processing and display\n\nPART3:\n------\n11. Scene generators/geographical data/Maps/Data files\n12. 3D scanners - Digitized 3D Data.\n13. Background imagery/textures/datafiles\n14. Introduction to rendering algorithms\n a. Ray tracing\n b. Z-buffer (depth-buffer)\n c. Others\n15. Where can I find the geometric data for the:\n a. Teapot ?\n b. Space Shuttle ?\n16. Image annotation software\n17. Scientific visualization stuff\n18. Molecular visualization stuff\n19. GIS (Geographical Information Systems software)\n\nFuture additions:\n[Please send me updates/info!]\n\n========================================================================\n\n0. Places to find the Resource Listing\n======================================\n\nThis file is crossposted to comp.graphics, comp.answers and news.answers,\nso if you can\'t locate it in comp.graphics, you\'re advised to search in\ncomp.answers or news.answers\n(The latter groups usually are archived in your site. Contact your sysadmin\nfor more info).\n\nThese 3 articles are posted to comp.graphics 3-4 times a month and are kept in\nmany places (see below)\n\n--\n\nMany FAQs, including this one, are available on the archive site\npit-manager.mit.edu (alias rtfm.mit.edu) [18.172.1.27] in the directory\npub/usenet/news.answers. The name under which a FAQ is archived appears\nin the Archive-name line at the top of the article.\nThis FAQ is archived as graphics/resources-list/part[1-3]\n\nThere\'s a mail server on that machine. You send a e-mail message to\nmail-server@pit-manager.mit.edu containing: help in the Subject: field\n\n--\n\nThe inria-graphlib mail server mirrors this posting (see under the\nSubject 4: Mail servers )\n\n--\n\nThe Resource Listing is accesible through WAIS in the machine\nenuxva.eas.asu.edu (port 8000) under the name graphics-resources-list.\nIt\'s got a digest-type line before every numbered item for purposes of\nindexing.\n\n--\n\nAnother place that monitors the Listing is the MaasInfo files.\nFor more info contact Robert E. Maas <rem@btr.com>\n\n--\n\nYet another place to search for FAQs in general is the SWITCH\n(Swiss Academic and Research Network) system in Switzerland:\n\ninteractive:\n telnet nic.switch.ch [130.59.1.40], login as "info". Move to the\n info_service/Usenet/periodic-postings directory. Search in the\n 00index file by typing "/" and the word to look for.\n You may then just read the FAQ in the "faqs" directory, or decide\n to fetch it by one of the following methods.\n\nftp:\n login to nic.switch.ch [130.59.1.40] as user anonymous and\n enter your internet-style address after being prompted for a\n password.\n\n\tcd info_service/Usenet/periodic-postings\n\nmail:\n send e-mail to\n\nRFC-822:\n archive-server@nic.switch.ch\nX.400:\n /S=archive-server/OU=nic/O=switch/PRMD=switch/ADMD=arcom/C=ch/\n\nEnter \'help\' in the bodypart to receive instructions. No information\nis required in the subject header line.\n\n\n1. ARCHIE\n=========\n\nThe Archie is a service system to locate FTP places for\nrequested files. It\'s appreciated that you will use Archie\nbefore asking help in the newsgroups.\n\nArchie servers:\n archie.au or 139.130.4.6 (Aussie/NZ)\n archie.funet.fi or 128.214.6.100 (Finland/Eur.)\n archie.th-darmstadt.de or 130.83.128.111 (GER.)\n cs.huji.ac.il or 132.65.6.5 (Israel)\n archie.kuis.kyoto-u.ac.jp or 130.54.20.1 (JAPAN)\n archie.sogang.ac.kr or 163.239.1.11 (Korea)\n archie.ncu.edu.tw or telnet 140.115.19.24 (TWN)\n archie.doc.ic.ac.uk or 146.169.3.7 (UK/Ireland)\n archie.sura.net or 128.167.254.179 (USA [MD])\n archie.unl.edu (password: archie1) (USA [NE])\n archie.ans.net or 147.225.1.2 (USA [NY])\n archie.rutgers.edu or 128.6.18.15 (USA [NJ])\n archie.nz or 130.195.9.4 (New Zealand)\n\nConnect to Archie server with telnet and type "archie" as username.\nTo get help type \'help\'.\nYou can get \'xarchie\' or \'archie\', which are clients that call Archie\nwithout the burden of a telnet session.\n\'Xarchie\' is on the X11.R5 contrib tape, and \'archie\' on comp.sources.misc,\nvol. 27.\n\nTo get information on how to use Archie via e-mail, send mail with\nsubject "help" to "archie" account at any of above sites.\n\n(Note to Janet/PSS users -- the United Kingdom archie site is\naccessible on the Janet host doc.ic.ac.uk [000005102000].\nConnect to it and specify "archie" as the host name and "archie" as\nthe username.)\n\n==========================================================================\n\n2. Notes\n========\n(Excerpted from the FAQ article)\n\nPlease do *not* post or mail messages saying "I can\'t FTP, could\nsomeone mail this to me?" There are a number of automated mail servers\nthat will send you things like this in response to a message.\n\nThere are a number of sites that archive the Usenet sources newsgroups\nand make them available via an email query system. You send a message\nto an automated server saying something like "send comp.sources.unix/fbm",\nand a few hours or days later you get the file in the mail.\n\n==========================================================================\n\n3. Computer graphics FTP site list, by Eric Haines\n==================================================\n\nComputer graphics related FTP sites (and maintainers), 22/04/93\n\tcompiled by Eric Haines, erich@eye.com\n\tand Nick Fotis, nfotis@theseas.ntua.gr\n\nRay-tracers:\n------------\n\nRayShade - a great ray tracer for workstations on up, also for PC, Mac & Amiga.\nPoV - son and successor to DKB trace, written by Compuservers.\n\t(For more questions call Drew Wells --\n\t73767.1244@compuserve.com or Dave Buck -- david_buck@carleton.ca)\nART - ray tracer with a good range of surface types, part of VORT package.\nDKBtrace - another good ray tracer, from all reports; PCs, Mac II,\n\tAmiga, UNIX, VMS (last two with X11 previewer), etc.\nRTrace - Portugese ray tracer, does bicubic patches, CSG, 3D text, etc. etc.\n\tAn MS-DOS version for use with DJGPP DOS extender (GO32) exists also,\n\tas a Mac port.\nVIVID2 - A shareware raytracer for PCs - binary only (286/287). Author:\n\tStephen Coy (coy@ssc-vax.boeing.com). The 386/387 (no source) version\n\tis available to registered users (US$50) direct from the author.\nRAY4 - Steve Hollasch\'s 4-dimensional ray tracer - renders hyperspheres,\n\thypertetrahedra, hyperplanes, and hyperparallelepipeds (there\'s\n\ta separate real-time wireframe viewer written in GL called WIRE4 ) .\nMTV,QRT,DBW - yet more ray tracers, some with interesting features.\n\nDistributed/Parallel Raytracers:\n--------------------------------\n\nXDART - A distributed ray-tracer that runs under X11. There are server binaries\n\twhich work only on DECstations, SPARCs, HP Snakes (7x0 series) and NeXT.\n\tThe clients are distributed as binaries and C source.\nInetray - A network version of Rayshade 4.0. Needs Sun RPC 4.0 or newer.\n\tContact Andreas Thurnherr (ant@ips.id.ethz.ch)\nprt, VM_pRAY - parallel ray tracers.\n\nVolume renderers:\n-----------------\n\nVREND - Cornell\'s Volume Renderer, from Kartch/Devine/Caffey/Warren (FORTRAN).\n\nRadiosity (and diffuse lighting) renderers:\n-------------------------------------------\n\nRadiance - a ray tracer w/radiosity effects, by Greg Ward. Excellent shading\n\tmodels and physically based lighting simulation. Unix/X based, though\n\thas been ported to the Amiga and the PC (386).\nINDIA - An Indian radiosity package based on Radiance.\nSGI_RAD - An interactive radiosity package that runs on SGI machines with a\n\tSpaceball. It includes a house database.\n\tAuthor: Guy Moreillon <moreillo@ligsg1.epfl.ch>\nRAD - a simple public-domain radiosity package in C. The solution can be run\n\tstand-alone on any Unix box, but the walk-through requires a SGI 4D.\n\tAuthor: Bernard Kwok <g-kwok@cs.yorku.ca>\n\nRenderers which are not raytracers, and graphics libraries:\n-----------------------------------------------------------\n\nSIPP - Scan line z-buffer and Phong shading renderer.\n\tNow uses the shadow buffer algorithm.\nTcl-SIPP - a Tcl command interface to the SIPP rendering\n\tprogram. Tcl-SIPP is a set of Tcl commands used to programmed\n\tSIPP without having to write and compile C code.\n\tCommands are used to specify surfaces, objects,\n\tscenes and rendering options.\n\tIt renders either in PPM format or in Utah Raster Toolkit RLE format\n\tor to the photo widget in the Tk-based X11 applications.\n\nVOGLE - graphics learning environment (device portable).\nVOGL - an SGI GL-like library based on VOGLE.\nREND386 - A *fast* polygon renderer for Intel 386s and up. Version 2 on up.\n\t[ It\'s not photorealistic, but rather a real-time renderer]\nXSHARP21 - Dr. Dobb\'s Journal PC renderer source code, with budget texture\n\tmapping.\n\nModellers, wireframe viewers:\n-----------------------------\n\nVISION-3D - Mac modeler, can output Radiance & Rayshade files.\nIRIT - A CSG solid modeler, with support for freeform surfaces.\nX3D - A wireframe viewer for X11.\n3DV - 3-D wireframe graphics toolkit, with C source, 3dv objects, other stuff\n\tLook at major PC archives like wuarchive. One such file is 3DKIT1.ZIP\nPV3D - a shareware front end modeler for POVRAY, still in beta test.\n French docs for now, price for registering 250 French Francs. Save disabled.\n Some extra utilities, DXF files for the registered version.\n\nGeometric viewers:\n------------------\n\nSALEM - A GL-based package from Dobkin et al. for exploring mathematical\n\tstructures.\nGEOMVIEW - A GL-based package for looking and interactively manipulating\n3D objects, from Geometry Center at Minnesota.\nXYZ GeoBench -(eXperimental geometrY Zurich) is a workbench for geometric\n\tcomputation for Macintosh computers.\nWIRE4 - GL wireframe previewer for Steve Hollasch\'s RAY4 (see above)\n\nData Formats and Data Sets for Ray Tracing:\n-------------------------------------------\n\nSPD - a set of procedural databases for testing ray tracers.\nNFF - simplistic file format used by SPD.\nOFF - another file format.\nP3D - a lispy file format.\nTDDD - Imagine (3D modeler) format, has converters for RayShade, NFF, OFF, etc.\n\tAlso includes a nice postscript object displayer. Some GREAT models.\nTTDDDLIB - converts to/from TDDD/TTDDD, OFF, NFF, Rayshade 4.0, Imagine,\n\tand vort 3d objects. Also outputs Framemaker MIF files and isometric\n\tviews in Postscript. Registered users get a TeX PK font converter and\n\ta superquadric surfaces generator.\n\tGlenn Lewis <glewis@pcocd2.intel.com>\n\t[Note : TTDDDLIB is also known as T3DLIB]\nCHVRTD - Chapel Hill Volume Rendering Test Datasets, includes volume sets for\n\ttwo heads, a brain, a knee, electron density maps for RNA and others.\n\nWritten Material on Rendering:\n------------------------------\n\nRT News - collections of articles on ray tracing.\nRT bib - references to articles on ray tracing in "refer" format.\nRad bib - references to articles on radiosity (global illumination).\nSpeer RT bib - Rick Speer\'s cross-referenced RT bib, in postscript.\nRT abstracts - collection by Tom Wilson of abstracts of many RT articles.\nPaper bank project - various technical papers in electronic form. Contact\n\tJuhana Kouhia <jk87377@cs.tut.fi>\nOnline Bibliography Project :\n The ACM SIGGRAPH Online Bibliography Project is a database of \n over 15,000 unique computer graphics and computational geometry\n references in BibTeX format, available to the computer graphics\n community as a research and educational resource.\n\n The database is located at "siggraph.org". Users may download \n the BibTeX files via FTP and peruse them offline, or telnet to\n "siggraph.org" and log in as "biblio" and interactively search\n the database for entries of interest, by keyword.\n For the people without Internet access, there\'s also an e-mail\n server. Send mail to\n\n archive-server@siggraph.org\n\n and in the subject or the body of the message include the message send\n followed by the topic and subtopic you wish. A good place to start is\n with the command\n send index\n which will give you an up-to-date list of available information.\n\n Additions/corrections/suggestions may be directed to the admin,\n "bibadmin@siggraph.org".\n\nImage Manipulation Libraries:\n-----------------------------\n\nUtah Raster Toolkit - nice image manipulation tools.\nPBMPLUS - a great package for image conversion and manipulation.\nLIBTIFF - library for reading/writing TIFF images.\nImageMagick - X11 package for display and interactive manipulation\n\tof images. Uses its own format (MIFF), and includes some converters.\nxv - X-based image display, manipulation, and format converter.\nxloadimage, xli - displays various formats on an X11 screen.\nKhoros - a huge, excellent system for image processing, with a visual\n\tprogramming interface and much much more. Uses X windows.\nFBM - another set of image manipulation tools, somewhat old now.\nImg - image manipulation, displays on X11 screen, a bit old now.\nxflick - Plays .FLI animation under X11\nXAnim - plays any resolution FLI along with GIF\'s(including GIF89a animation\n\textensions), DL\'s and Amiga IFF animations(3,5,J,l) and IFF\n\tpictures(including HAM,EHB and color cycling)\nSDSC - SDSC Image Tools package (San Diego Supercomputing Center)\n\tfor image manipulation and conversion\nCLRpaint - A 24-bit paint program for SGI 24bit workstations and 8bit Indigos.\n\nLibraries with code for graphics:\n---------------------------------\n\nGraphics Gems I,II,III - code from the ever so useful books.\nspline-patch.tar.Z - spline patch ray intersection routines by Sean Graves\nkaleido - Computation and 3D Display of Uniform Polyhedra. Mirrored in\n\twuarchive. This package computes (and displays) the metrical\n\tproperties of 75 polyhedra. Author: Dr. Zvi Har\'El,\n\te-mail: rl@gauss.technion.ac.il\n\n(*) means site is an "official" distributor, so is most up to date.\n\n\nNORTH AMERICA (please look for things on your own continent first...):\n-------------\n\nwuarchive.wustl.edu [128.252.135.4]: /graphics/graphics - get CONTENTS file\n\tfor a roadmap. /graphics/graphics/objects/TDDD - *the TTDDD objects\n\tand converters*, /mirrors/unix-c/graphics - Rayshade ray tracer, MTV\n\tray tracer, Vort ray tracer, FBM, PBMPLUS, popi, Utah raster toolkit.\n\t/mirrors/msdos/graphics - DKB ray tracer, FLI RayTracker demos.\n\t/pub/rad.tar.Z - *SGI_RAD*, /graphics/graphics/radiosity - Radiance\n\tand Indian radiosity package. /msdos/ddjmag/ddj9209.zip - version 21\n\tof Xsharp, with fast texture mapping. There\'s lots more, including\n\tbibs, Graphics Gems I & II code, OFF, RTN, Radiance, NFF, SIPP, spline\n\tpatch intersection routines, textbook errata, source code from Roy\n\tHall\'s book "Illumination and Color in Computer Generated Imagery", etc\n\tgraphics/graphics/packages/kaleido - *kaleido*\n\tGeorge Kyriazis <kyriazis@turing.cs.rpi.edu>\n\nprinceton.edu [128.112.128.1]: /pub/Graphics (note capital "G") - *Rayshade\n\t4.0 ray tracer (and separate 387 executable)*, *color quantization\n\tcode*, *SPD*, *RT News*, *Wilson\'s RT abstracts*, "RT bib*, *Utah\n\tRaster Toolkit*, newer FBM, *Graphics Gems I, II & III code*.\n\t/pub/graphics directory - *SALEM* and other stuff.\n\tCraig Kolb <cek@princeton.edu>\n\t[replaces weedeater.math.yale.edu - note the capital "G" in\n\tpub/Graphics] Because there\'s a trouble with princeton\'s incoming\n\tarea, you can upload Rayshade-specific stuff to\n\tweedeater.math.yale.edu [128.36.23.17]\n\nalfred.ccs.carleton.ca [134.117.1.1]: /pub/dkbtrace - *DKB ray tracer*,\n\t/pub/pov-ray/POV-Ray1.0 - *PVRay Compuserve group ray tracer (or PoV)*.\n\tDavid Buck <david_buck@carleton.ca>\n\navalon.chinalake.navy.mil [129.131.31.11]: 3D objects (multiple formats),\n\tutilities, file format documents.\n\tThis site was created to be a 3D object "repository" for the net.\n\tFrancisco X DeJesus <dejesus@archimedes.chinalake.navy.mil>\n\nomicron.cs.unc.edu [152.2.128.159]: pub/softlab/CHVRTD - Chapel Hill\n\tVolume Rendering Test Datasets.\n\nftp.mv.com [192.80.84.1]: - Official DDJ FTP repository.\n\t*XSHARP*\n\npeipa.essex.ac.uk [155.245.115.161]: the Pilot European Image Processing\n\tArchive; in a directory ipa/synth or something like that, there are\n\timage synthesis packages.\n\tAdrian Clarke <alien@essex.ac.uk>\n\nbarkley.berkeley.edu [128.32.142.237] : tcl/extensions/tsipp3.0b.tar.Z -\n\t*Tcl-SIPP*\n\tMark Diekhans <markd@grizzly.com or markd@NeoSoft.com>\n\nacs.cps.msu.edu [35.8.56.90]: pub/sass - *X window fonts converter into\n\tRayshade 3.0 polygons*, Rayshade animation tool(s).\n\tRon Sass <sass@cps.msu.edu>\n\nhobbes.lbl.gov [128.3.12.38]: *Radiance* ray trace/radiosity package.\n\tGreg Ward <gjward@lbl.gov>\n\ngeom.umn.edu [128.101.25.31] : pub/geomview - *GEOMVIEW*\n\tContact (for GEOMVIEW): software@geom.umn.edu\n\nftp.arc.umn.edu [137.66.130.11] : pub/gvl.tar.Z - the latest version of Bob,\n\tIcol and Raz. Source, a manual, man pages, and binaries for\n\tIRIX 4.0.5 are included (Bob is a real time volume renderer)\n\tpub/ contains also many volume datasets.\n\tKen Chin-Purcell <ken@ahpcrc.umn.edu>\n\nftp.kpc.com [144.52.120.9] : /pub/graphics/holl91 - Steve Hollasch\'s\n\tThesis, /pub/graphics/ray4 - *RAY4*, /pub/graphics/wire4 - *WIRE4*.\n\t/pub/mirror/avalon - mirror of avalon\'s 3D objects repository.\n\tSteve Hollasch <hollasch@kpc.com>\n\nswedishchef.lerc.nasa.gov [139.88.54.33] : programs/hollasch-4d - RAY4,\n\tSGI Explorer modules and Postscript manual, etc.\n\nzamenhof.cs.rice.edu [128.42.1.75] : pub/graphics.formats - Various electronic\n\tdocuments about many object and image formats.\n\tMark Hall <foo@cs.rice.edu>\n\twill apparently no longer be maintaining it, see ftp.ncsa.uiuc.edu.\n\nrascal.ics.utexas.edu [128.83.144.1]: /misc/mac/inqueue - VISION-3D facet\n\tbased modeller, can output RayShade and Radiance files.\n\nftp.ncsa.uiuc.edu [141.142.20.50] : misc/file.formats/graphics.formats -\n\tcontains various image- and object-format descriptions. Many SciVi\n\ttools in various directories, e.g. SGI/Alpha-shape/Alvis-1.0.tar.Z -\n\t3D alpha-shape visualizer (SGI machines only),\n\tSGI/Polyview3.0/polyview.Z - interactive visualization and analysis of\n\t3D geometrical structures.\n\tQuincey Koziol <koziol@ncsa.uiuc.edu>\n\ntucana.noao.edu [140.252.1.1] : /iraf - the IRAF astronomy package\n\nftp.ipl.rpi.edu [128.113.14.50]: sigma/erich - SPD images and Haines thesis\n\timages. pub/images - various 24 and 8 bit image stills and sequences.\n\tKevin Martin <sigma@ipl.rpi.edu>\n\nftp.psc.edu [128.182.66.148]: pub/p3d - p3d_2_0.tar P3D lispy scene\n\tlanguage & renderers. Joel Welling <welling@seurat.psc.edu>\n\nftp.ee.lbl.gov [128.3.254.68]: *pbmplus.tar.Z*, RayShade data files.\n\tJef Poskanzer <jef@ace.ee.lbl.gov>\n\ngeorge.lbl.gov [128.3.196.93]: pub/ccs-lib/ccs.tar.Z - *CCS (Complex\n\tConversion System), a standard software interface for image processing*\n\nhanauma.stanford.edu [36.51.0.16]: /pub/graphics/Comp.graphics - best of\n\tcomp.graphics (very extensive), ray-tracers - DBW, MTV, QRT, and more.\n\tJoe Dellinger <joe@hanauma.stanford.edu>\n\nftp.uu.net [192.48.96.2]: /graphics - *IRIT*, RT News back issues (not\n\tcomplete), NURBS models, other graphics related material.\n\t/graphics/jpeg/jpegsrc.v?.tar.Z - Independent JPEG Group package for\n\treading and writing JPEG files.\n\nfreebie.engin.umich.edu [141.212.68.23]: *Utah Raster Toolkit*,\n\tSpencer Thomas <thomas@eecs.umich.edu>\n\nexport.lcs.mit.edu [18.24.0.12] : /contrib - pbmplus, Image Magick, xloadimage,\n\txli, xv, Img, lots more. /pub/R5untarred/mit/demos/gpc - NCGA Graphics\n\tPerformance Characterization (GPC) Suite.\n\nlife.pawl.rpi.edu [128.113.10.2]: /pub/ray - *Kyriazis stochastic Ray Tracer*.\n\tGeorge Kyriazis <kyriazis@turing.cs.rpi.edu>\n\ncs.utah.edu [128.110.4.21]: /pub - Utah raster toolkit, *NURBS databases*.\n\tJamie Painter <jamie@cs.utah.edu>\n\ngatekeeper.dec.com [16.1.0.2]: /pub/DEC/off.tar.Z - *OFF models*,\n\tAlso GPC Benchmark files (planned, but not checked).\n\tRandi Rost <rost@kpc.com>\n\nhubcap.clemson.edu [130.127.8.1]: /pub/amiga/incoming/imagine - stuff for the\n\tAmiga Imagine & Turbo Silver ray tracers. /pub/amiga/TTDDDLIB -\n\t*TTDDDLIB* /pub/amiga/incoming/imagine/objects - MANY objects.\n\tGlenn Lewis <glewis@pcocd2.intel.com>\n\npprg.eece.unm.edu [129.24.24.10]: /pub/khoros - *Khoros image processing\n\tpackage (huge, but great)*.\n\tDanielle Argiro <danielle@bullwinkle.unm.edu>\n\nexpo.lcs.mit.edu [18.30.0.212]: contrib - *PBMPLUS portable bitmap package*,\n\t*poskbitmaptars bitmap collection*, *Raveling Img*, xloadimage. Jef\n\tPoskanzer <jef@well.sf.ca.us>\n\nvenera.isi.edu [128.9.0.32]: */pub/Img.tar.z and img.tar.z - some image\n\tmanipulation*, /pub/images - RGB separation photos.\n\tPaul Raveling <raveling@venera.isi.edu>\n\nucsd.edu [128.54.16.1]: /graphics - utah rle toolkit, pbmplus, fbm,\n\tdatabases, MTV, DBW and other ray tracers, world map, other stuff.\n\tNot updated much recently.\n\ncastlab.engr.wisc.edu [128.104.52.10]: /pub/x3d.2.2.tar.Z - *X3D*\n\t/pub/xdart.1.1.* - *XDART*\n\tMark Spychalla <spy@castlab.engr.wisc.edu>\n\nsgi.com [192.48.153.1]: /graphics/tiff - TIFF 6.0 spec & *LIBTIFF* software\n\tand pics. Also much SGI- and GL-related stuff (e.g. OpenGL manuals)\n\tSam Leffler <sam@sgi.com>\n\t[supercedes okeeffe.berkeley.edu for the LIBTIFF stuff]\n\nsurya.waterloo.edu [129.97.129.72]: /graphics - FBM, ray tracers\n\nftp.sdsc.edu [132.249.20.22]: /sdscpub - *SDSC*\n\nftp.brl.mil [128.63.16.158]: /brl-cad - information on how to get the\n\tBRL CAD package & ray tracer. /images - various test images.\n\tA texture library has also begun here.\n\tLee A. Butler <butler@BRL.MIL>\n\ncicero.cs.umass.edu [128.119.40.189]: /texture_temp - 512x512 grayscale\n\tBrodatz textures,\n\tfrom Julien Flack <julien@scs.leeds.ac.uk>.\n\nkarazm.math.uh.edu [129.7.7.6]: pub/Graphics/rtabs.shar.12.90.Z - *Wilson\'s\n\tRT abstracts*, VM_pRAY.\n\tJ. Eric Townsend <jet@karazm.math.uh.edu or jet@nas.nasa.gov>\n\nftp.pitt.edu [130.49.253.1]: /users/qralston/images - 24 bit image archive\n\t(small). James Ralston Crawford <qralston@gl.pitt.edu>\n\nftp.tc.cornell.edu [128.84.201.1]: /pub/vis - *VREND*\n\nsunee.waterloo.edu [129.97.50.50]: /pub/raytracers - vivid, *REND386*\n\t[or sunee.uwaterloo.ca]\n\narchive.umich.edu [141.211.164.153]: /msdos/graphics - PC graphics stuff.\n\t/msdos/graphics/raytrace - VIVID2.\n\napple.apple.com [130.43.2.2?]: /pub/ArchiveVol2/prt.\n\nresearch.att.com [192.20.225.2]: /netlib/graphics - *SPD package*, ~/polyhedra -\n\t*polyhedra databases*. (If you don\'t have FTP, use the netlib\n\tautomatic mail replier: UUCP - research!netlib, Internet -\n\tnetlib@ornl.gov. Send one line message "send index" for more info,\n\t"send haines from graphics" to get the SPD)\n\nsiggraph.org [128.248.245.250]: SIGGRAPH archive site.\n\tpublications - *Online Bibliography Project*, Conference proceedings\n\tin various electronic formats (papers, panels), SIGGRAPH Video Review\n\tinformation and order forms.\n\tOther stuff in various directories.\n\tAutomatic mailer is archive-server@siggraph.org ("send index").\n\nftp.cs.unc.edu [128.109.136.159]: pub/reaction_diffusion - Greg Turk\'s work on\n\treaction-diffusion textures, X windows code (SIGGRAPH \'91)\n\navs.ncsc.org [128.109.178.23]: ~ftp/VolVis92 - Volume datasets from the\n\tBoston Workshop on Volume Visualization \'92. This site is also the\n\tInternational AVS Center.\n\tTerry Myerson <tvv@ncsc.org>\n\nuvacs.cs.virginia.edu [128.143.8.100]: pub/suit/demo/{sparc,dec,etc} - SUIT\n\t(Simple User Interface Toolkit). "finger suit@uvacs.cs.virginia.edu"\n\tto get detailed instructions.\n\nnexus.yorku.ca [130.63.9.66]: /pub/reports/Radiosity_code.tar.Z - *RAD*\n\t/pub/reports/Radiosity_thesis.ps.Z - *RAD MSc. Thesis*\n\t[This site will be changed to ftp.yorku.ca in the near future]\n\nmilton.u.washington.edu [128.95.136.1] - ~ftp/public/veos - VEOS Virtual\n\tReality and distributed applications prototyping environment\n\tfor Unix. Veos Software Support : veos-support@hitl.washington.edu\n oldpublic/fly - FLY! 3D Visualization Software demo.\n That package is built for "fly-throughs" from various datasets in\n near real-time. There are binaries for many platforms.\n\tAlso, much other Virtual Reality stuff.\n\nzug.csmil.umich.edu [141.211.184.2]: X-Xpecs 3D files (an LCD glass shutter\n\tfor Amiga computers - great for VR stuff!)\n\nsugrfx.acs.syr.edu [128.230.24.1]: Various stereo-pair images.\n[ Has closed down :-( ]\n\nsunsite.unc.edu [152.2.22.81]: /pub/academic/computer-science/virtual-reality -\n\tFinal copy of the sugrfx.acs.syr.edu archive that ceased to exist.\n\tIt contains Powerglove code, VR papers, 3D images and IRC research\n\tmaterial.\n\tJonathan Magid <jem@sunSITE.unc.edu>\n\narchive.cis.ohio-state.edu [128.146.8.52]: pub/siggraph92 - Code for\n\tSiggraph \'92 Course 23 (Procedural Modeling and Rendering Techniques)\n\tDr. David S. Ebert <ebert@cis.ohio-state.edu>\n\nlyapunov.ucsd.edu [132.239.86.10]: This machine is considered the\n\trepository for preprints and programs for nonlinear dynamics,\n\tsignal processing, and related subjects (and fractals, of course!)\n\tMatt Kennel <mbk@inls1.ucsd.edu>\n\ncod.nosc.mil [128.49.16.5]: /pub/grid.{ps,tex,ascii} - a short survey of\n\tmethods to interpolate and contour bivariate data\n\nics.uci.edu [128.195.1.1]: /honig --- Various stereo-pair images,\n\tmovie.c - animates a movie on an X display (8-bit and mono) with\n\tdigital subtraction.\n\ntaurus.cs.nps.navy.mil [131.120.1.13]: pub/dabro/cyberware_demo.tar.Z - Human\n\thead data\n\npioneer.unm.edu [129.24.9.217]: pub/texture_maps - Hans du Buf\'s grayscale\n\ttest textures (aerial swatches, Brodatz textures, synthetic swatches).\n\tSpace & planetary image repository. Provides access to >150 CD-ROMS\n\twith data/images (3 on-line at a time).\n pub/info/beginner-info - here you should start browsing.\n Colby Kraybill <opus@pioneer.unm.edu>.\n\ncs.brown.edu [128.148.33.66] : *SRGP/SPHIGS* . For more info on SRGP/SPHIGS:\n mail -s \'software-distribution\' graphtext@cs.brown.edu\n\npdb.pdb.bnl.gov [130.199.144.1] has data about various organic molecules,\n bonds between the different atoms, etc.\n Atomic coordinates (and a load of other stuff) are contained in the\n "*.ent" files, but the actual atomic dimemsions seem to be missing.\n You could convert these data to PoV, rayshade, etc.\n\nbiome.bio.ns.ca [142.2.20.2] : /pub/art - some Renoir paintings,\n Escher\'s pictures, etc.\n\nic16.ee.umanitoba.ca [] : /specmark - sample set of images from the\n `Images from the Edge\' CD-ROM (images of atomic landscapes, advanced\n semiconductors, superconductors and experimental surface\n chemistry among others). Contact ruskin@ee.umanitoba.ca\n\nexplorer.dgp.toronto.edu [128.100.1.129] : pub/sgi/clrpaint - *CLRpaint*\n pub/sgi/clrview.* - CLRview, a tool that aids in visualization\n of GIS datasets in may formats like DXF, DEM, Arc/Info, etc.\n\names.arc.nasa.gov [128.102.18.3]: pub/SPACE/CDROM - images from Magellan\n and Viking missions etc. Get pub/SPACE/Index first.\n pub/SPACELINK has most of the SpaceLink service data (see below)\n e-mail server available: send mail to archive-server@ames.arc.nasa.gov\n (or ames!archive-server) with subject:"help"\n or "send SPACE Index" (without the quotes!)\n Peter Yee <yee@ames.arc.nasa.gov>\n\npubinfo.jpl.nasa.gov [128.149.6.2]: images, other data, etc. from JPL\n missions. Modem access at (818)-354-1333 (no parity, 8 data bits, 1\n stop bit).\n newsdesk@jplpost.jpl.nasa.gov or phone (818)-354-7170\n\nspacelink.msfc.nasa.gov [128.158.13.250] (passwd:guest) : space graphics\n and GIF images from NASA\'s planetary probes and the Hubble Telescope.\n Main function is support for teachers (you can telnet also to this\n site). Dial up access: (205)-895-0028 (300/1200/2400/9600(V.32) baud,\n 8 bits, no parity, 1 stop bit).\n\nstsci.edu [130.167.1.2] : Hubble Space Telescope stuff (images and other\n data). Read the README first!\n Pete Reppert <reppert@stsci.edu> or Chris O\'Dea <odea@stsci.edu>\n\npit-manager.mit.edu [18.172.1.27]: /pub/usenet/news.answers - the land of\n\tFAQs. graphics and pictures directories of particular interest.\n\t[Also available from mail-server@pit-manager.mit.edu by sending a mail\n\tmessage containing: help]\n\nUUCP archive: avatar - RT News back issues. For details, write Kory Hamzeh\n\t<kory@avatar.avatar.com>\n\n\nEUROPE:\n-------\n\nnic.funet.fi [128.214.6.100]: *pub/sci/papers - *Paper bank project,\n\tincluding Pete Shirley\'s entire thesis (with pics)*, *Wilson\'s RT\n\tabstracts*, pub/misc/CIA_WorldMap - CIA world data bank,\n\tcomp.graphics.research archive, *India*, and much, much more.\n\tJuhana Kouhia <jk87377@cs.tut.fi>\n\ndasun2.epfl.ch [128.178.62.2]: Radiance. Good for European sites, but\n\tdoesn\'t carry the add-ons that are available for Radiance.\n\nisy.liu.se [130.236.1.3]: pub/sipp/sipp-3.0.tar.Z - *SIPP* scan line z-buffer\n\tand Phong shading renderer. Jonas Yngvesson <jonas-y@isy.liu.se>\n\nirisa.fr [131.254.2.3]: */iPSC2/VM_pRAY ray tracer*, SPD, /NFF - many non-SPD\n\tNFF format scenes, RayShade data files. Didier Badouel\n\t<badouel@irisa.irisa.fr> [may have disappeared]\n\nphoenix.oulu.fi [130.231.240.17]: *FLI RayTracker animation files (PC VGA) -\n\talso big .FLIs (640*480)* *RayScene demos* [Americans: check wuarchive\n\tfirst]. More animations to come. Jari Kahkonen\n\t<hole@phoenix.oulu.fi>\n\njyu.fi [128.214.7.5]: /pub/graphics/ray-traces - many ray tracers, including\n\tVM_pRAY, DBW, DKB, MTV, QRT, RayShade, some RT News, NFF files. Jari\n\tToivanen <toivanen@jyu.fi>\n\ngarbo.uwasa.fi [128.214.87.1]: Much PC stuff, etc., /pc/source/contour.f -\n\tFORTRAN program to contour scattered data using linear triangle-based\n\tinterpolation\n\nasterix.inescn.pt [192.35.246.17]: pub/RTrace - *RTrace* nffutils.tar.Z (NFF\n\tutilities for RTrace), medical data (CAT, etc.) converters to NFF,\n\tAutocad to NFF Autolisp code, AUTOCAD 11 to SCN (RTrace\'s language)\n\tconverter and other goodies. Antonio Costa (acc@asterix.inescn.pt)\n\nvega.hut.fi [128.214.3.82]: /graphics - RTN archive, ray tracers (MTV, QRT,\n\tothers), NFF, some models.\n[ It was shut down months ago , check under nic.funet.fi -- nfotis ]\n\nsun4nl.nluug.nl [192.16.202.2]: /pub/graphics/raytrace - DBW.microray, MTV, etc\n\nunix.hensa.ac.uk [] : misc/unix/ralcgm/ralcgm.tar.Z - CGM viewer and\n converter.\n There\'s an e-mail server also - mail to archive@unix.hensa.ac.uk\n with the message body "send misc/unix/ralcgm/ralcgm.tar.Z"\n\nmaeglin.mt.luth.se [130.240.0.25]: graphics/raytracing - prt, others, ~/Doc -\n\t*Wilson\'s RT abstracts*, Vivid.\n\nftp.fu-berlin.de [130.20.225.2]: /pub/unix/graphics/rayshade4.0/inputs -\n\taq.tar.Z is RayShade aquarium [Americans: check princeton.edu first).\n\tHeiko Schlichting <heiko@math.fu-berlin.de>\n\nmaggia.ethz.ch [129.132.17.1]: pub/inetray - *Inetray* and Sun RPC 4.0 code\n\tAndreas Thurnherr <ant@ips.id.ethz.ch>\n\nosgiliath.id.dth.dk [129.142.65.24]: /pub/amiga/graphics/Radiance - *Amiga\n\tport of Radiance 2.0*. Per Bojsen <bojsen@ithil.id.dth.dk>\n\nftp.informatik.uni-oldenburg.de [134.106.1.9] : *PoV raytracer*\n Mirrored in wuarchive, has many goods for PoV.\n\tpub/dkbtrace/incoming/polyray - Polyray raytracer\n pub/dkbtrace/incoming/pv3d* - *PV3D*\n\nftp.uni-kl.de [131.246.9.95]: /pub/amiga/raytracing/imagine - mirror of\n\tthe hubcap Imagine files.\n\nneptune.inf.ethz.ch [129.132.101.33]: XYZ - *XYZ GeoBench*\n\tPeter Schorn <schorn@inf.ethz.ch>\n\niamsun.unibe.ch [130.92.64.10]: /Graphics/graphtal* - a L-system interpreter.\n\tChristoph Streit <streit@iam.unibe.ch>\n\namiga.physik.unizh.ch [130.60.80.80]: /amiga/gfx - Graphics stuff\n\tfor the Amiga computer.\n\nstesis.hq.eso.org [134.171.8.100]: on-line access to a huge astronomical\n database. (login:starcat;no passwd)\n DECnet:STESIS (It\'s the Space Telescope European Coordination Facility)\n Benoit Pirenne <bpirenne@eso.org>, phone +49 89 320 06 433\n\n\nMIDDLE EAST\n-----------\n\ngauss.technion.ac.il [132.68.112.60]: *kaleida*\n\n\nAUSTRALIA:\n----------\n\ngondwana.ecr.mu.oz.au [128.250.70.62]: pub - *VORT(ART) ray tracer*, *VOGLE*,\n\tWilson\'s ray tracing abstracts, /pub/contrib/artscenes (ART scenes from\n\tItaly), pub/images/haines - Haines thesis images, Graphics Gems code,\n\tSPD, NFF & OFF databases, NFF and OFF previewers, plus some 8- and\n\t24bit images and lots of other stuff. pub/rad.tar.Z - *SGI_RAD*\n\tBernie Kirby <bernie@ecr.mu.oz.au>\n\nmunnari.oz.au [128.250.1.21]: pub/graphics/vort.tar.Z - *VORT (ART) 2.1 CSG and\n\talgebraic surface ray tracer*, *VOGLE*, /pub - DBW, pbmplus. /graphics\n\t- room.tar.Z (ART scenes from Italy).\n\tDavid Hook <dgh@munnari.oz.au>\n\nmarsh.cs.curtin.edu.au [134.7.1.1]: pub/graphics/bibliography/Facial_Animation,\n\tpub/graphics/bibliography/Morph, pub/graphics/bibliography/UI -\n\tstuff about Facial animation, Morphing and User Interfaces.\n\tpub/fascia - Fred Parke\'s fascia program.\n\tValerie Hall <val@lillee.cs.curtin.edu.au>\n\n\nOCEANIA - ASIA:\n---------------\n\n#ccu1.auckland.ac.nz [130.216.3.1]: ftp/mac/architec - *VISION-3D facet\n\tbased modeller, can output RayShade files*. Many other neat things\n#\tfor Macs. Paul Bourke <pdbourke@ccu1.auckland.ac.nz>\n+[ For users outside NZ - go to wuarchive.wustl.edu, directory\n+ /mirrors/architec ]\n\nscslwide.sony.co.jp [133.138.199.1]: ftp2/SGI/Facial-Animation - Steve Franks\n\tsite for facial animation.\n \tSteve Franks <stevef@csl.sony.co.jp OR stevef@cs.umr.edu>\n\n\n4. Mail servers and graphics-oriented BBSes\n===========================================\n\nPlease check first with the FTP places above, with archie\'s help.\nDon\'t overuse mail servers.\n\nThere are some troubles with wrong return addresses. Many of these\nmail servers have a command like\n path a_valid_return_e-mail_address\nto get a hint for sending back to you stuff.\n\nDEC\'s FTPMAIL\n-------------\n Send a one-line message to ftpmail@decwrl.dec.com WITHOUT a Subject: field,\n and having a line containing the word \'help\'.\n You should get back a message detailing the relevant procedures you\n must follow in order to get the files you want.\n\n Note that the "reply" or "answer" command in your mailer will not work\n for this message or any other mail you receive from FTPMAIL. To send\n requests to FTPMAIL, send an original mail message, not a reply.\n Complaints should be sent to the ftpmail-request@uucp-gw-2.pa.dec.com\n address rather than to postmaster, since DECWRL\'s postmaster is not\n responsible for fixing ftpmail problems.\n\nBITFTP\n------\n For BITNET sites ONLY, there\'s BITFTP@PUCC.\n Send a one-line \'help\' message to this address for more info.\n\n\n+RED\n+---\n+ RED - Listserv Redirector is essentially a mail server.\n+ The Server Sites that are available are:\n+\n+ Location EARN/BITNET Internet\n+ -------------- ---------------- -------------------\n+ In Turkey: TRICKLE@TREARN TRICKLE@EGE.EDU.TR\n+ In Denmark: TRICKLE@DKTC11\n+ In Italy: TRICKLE@IMIPOLI\n+ In Belgium: TRICKLE@BANUFS11 TRICKLE@UFSIA.AC.BE\n+ In Austria: TRICKLE@AWIWUW11\n+ In Germany: TRICKLE@DS0RUS1I TRICKLE@RUSVM1.RUS.UNI-STUTTGART.DE\n+ In Israel: TRICKLE@TAUNIVM TRICKLE@VM.TAU.AC.IL\n+ In Netherlands: TRICKLE@HEARN TRICKLE@HEARN.NIC.SURFNET.NL\n+ In France: TRICKLE@FRMOP11 TRICKLE@FRMOP11.CNUSC.FR\n+ In Colombia: TRICKLE@UNALCOL TRICKLE@UNALCOL.UNAL.EDU.CO\n+ In Taiwan: TRICKLE@TWNMOE10 TRICKLE@TWNMOE10.EDU.TW\n+\n+ You are urged to use the one that is closer to your location.\n+ Send a message to one of these containing the body\n+\n+ /HELP\n+\n+ and you\'ll get more instructions.\n\n\nLightwave 3D mail based file-server\n-----------------------------------\n A mail based file server for 3D objects, 24bit JPEG images, GIF images\n and image maps is now online for all those with Internet mail access.\n The server is the official archive site for the Lightwave 3D mail-list\n and contains many PD and Shareware graphics utilities for\n several computer platforms including Amiga, Atari, IBM and Macintosh.\n\n The server resides on a BBS called "The Graphics BBS". The BBS is\n operational 24 hours a day 7 days a week at the phone number of +1\n 908/469-0049. It has upgraded its modem to a Hayes Ultra 144\n V.32bis/V.42bis, which has speeds from 300bps up to 38,400bps.\n\n If you would like to submit objects, scenes or images to the server,\n please pack, uuencode and then mail the files to the address:\n server@bobsbox.rent.com.\n\n For information on obtaining files from the server send a mail message\n to the address file-server@graphics.rent.com with the following in\n the body of the message:\n HELP\n /DIR\n And a help file describing how to use the server and a complete\n directory listing will be sent to you via mail.\n\n[ Now it includes the Cyberware head and shouders in TTDDD format! Check it\n out, only if you can\'t use FTP! -- nfotis ]\n\nINRIA-GRAPHLIB\n--------------\n Pierre Jancene and Sabine Coquillart launched the inria-graphlib mail\n server a few months ago.\n\n echo help | mail inria-graphlib@inria.fr\n\n will give you a quick summary of what inria-graphlib contains and \n how to browse among its files.\n\n echo send contents | mail inria-graphlib@inria.fr\n\n will return the extended summary.\n\n As an other example :\n\n echo send cgrl from Misc | mail inria-graphlib@inria.fr\n\n will return the Computer Graphics Resource Listing mirrored from\n comp.graphics.\n\nBBSes\n-----\n There are many BBSes that store datafiles, etc.etc., but a guide to these\n is beyond the scope of this Listing (and the resources of the author!)\n If you can point to me Internet- or mail- accessible BBSes that carry\n interesting stuff, send me info!\n\n\n Studio Amiga is a 3D modelling and ray tracing specific BBS, (817) 467-3658.\n 24 hours, 105 Meg online.\n--\nFrom Jeff Walkup <pwappy@well.sf.ca.us>:\n "The Castle" 415/355-2396 (14.4K/v.32bis/v.42/v.42bis/MNP)\n (In Pacifica, dang close to San Francisco, California, USA)\n The new-user password is: "TAO".\n \n [J]oin base #2; The Castle G/FX, Anim, Video, 3D S.I.G., of which\n I am the SIG-Op, "Lazerus".\n--\n Bob Lindabury operates a BBS (see above the entry for "The Graphics BBS")\n--\n\'You Can Call Me Ray\' ray tracing related BBS in Chicago suburbs (708-358-5611)\n or (708-358-8721)\n--\n Digital Pixel (Sysop: Mark Ng <mcng@descartes.waterloo.edu>) is based at\n Toronto, Ontario, Canada.\n \n Phone : (416) 298 1487\n Storage space: 330 megs\n Modem type: 14.4k baud,16.8k (Zyxel) , v32bis ,v32, mnp 5\n\n Access Fee: none.. (free)\n System supported : DOS, OS/2, Amiga, Mac. \n Netmail: Currently no echo mail.\n Topics: Raytracing, Fractals, Graphics programming, CAD, Any Comp.\n Graphics related \n\n--\nFrom: David Tiberio <dtiberio@ic.sunysb.edu>\n\n Amiga Graphics BBS (516) 473-6351 in Long Island, New York,\n running 24 hours at 14.4k v.32bis, with 157 megs on line.\n We also subscribe to 9 mailing lists, of which 5 originate\n from our BBS, with 3 more to be added soon. These include:\n\n Lightwave, Imagine, Real 3D (ray tracing)\n\n Database files include:\n Imagine 3D objects, 3D renderings, scalable fonts, music\n modules, sound samples, demos, animations, utilities,\n text databases, and pending Lightwave 3D objects.\n--\nThe Graphics Alternative\n\n The Graphics Alternative is in El Cerrito, CA., running 24 hours a\n day at 14.4k HST/v.32bis, with 642MB online and a 1300+ user base.\n TGA runs two nodes, node 1 (510) 524-2780 is for public access and\n includes a free 90 day trial subscription. TGA is the West Coast\n Host for PCGnet, The Profesional CAD and Graphics Network, supporting\n nodes across the Continental U.S., Alaska, New Zealand, Australia,\n France and the UK.\n \n TGA\'s file database includes MS-DOS executables for POV, Vivid,\n RTrace, Rayshade, Polyray, and others. TGA also has numerous\n graphics utilities, viewers, and conversion utilities. Registered\n Vivid users can also download the latest Vivid aeta code from a\n special Vivid conference.\n\n--\nFrom: Scott Bethke <sbathkey@access.digex.com>\n\nThe Intersection BBS, 410-250-7149.\n\n This BBS Is dedicated to supporting 3D Animators.The system is provided\n FREE OF CHARGE, and is NOT Commercialized in ANYWAY.\n Users are given FULL Access on the first call.\n\nFeatures: Usenet NEWS & Internet Mail, Fidonet Echo\'s & Netmail,\n\t200 Megs online, V.32bis/V.42bis Modem.\n\nPlatforms of interest: Amiga & The VideoToaster, Macintosh, Ms-Dos,\n\tUnix Workstations (Sun, SGI, etc), Atari-ST.\n--\nFrom: Alfonso Hermida <afanh@robots.gsfc.nasa.gov>:\n\n Pi Square BBS (301)725-9080 in Maryland. It supports raytracers such as POV\n and VIVID. The BBS runs off a 486/33Mhz, 100Megs hard drive and CD ROM.\n Now it runs on 1200-2400bps (this will change soon)\n\n Topics: graphics programming, animation,raytracing,programming (general)\n--\nFrom: Lynn Falkow <ROXXIE@delphi.com>:\n\n Vertech Design\'s GRAPHIC CONNECTION. (503) 591-8412 in Portland, Oregon.\n V.32/V.42bis.\n\n The BBS, aside from carrying typical BBS services like message bases\n ( all topic specific ) and files ( CAD and graphics related -- hundreds\n of megabytes ), also offers material texture files that are full color,\n seamlessly tiling, photo-realistic images. There are samples available\n to first time callers. The BBS is a subscription system although callers\n have 2 hours before they must subscribe, and there are several subscription\n rates available. People interested in materials can subscribe to the\n library in addition to a basic subscription rate, and can use their\n purchased time to download whichever materials they wish.\n\n==========================================================================\n\n5. Ray-tracing/graphics-related mailing lists\n=============================================\n\nImagine\n-------\n Modeling and animation system for the Amiga:\n send subscription requests to Imagine-request@email.sp.paramax.com\n send material to Imagine@email.sp.paramax.com\n (Dave Wickard has substituted Steve Worley in the maintenance of\n the mailing list) - PLEASE note that the unisys.com address is\n NO longer valid!!!\n\nLightwave\n---------\n (for the Amiga. It\'s part of Newtek\'s Video Toaster):\n send subscription requests to lightwave-request@bobsbox.rent.com\n send material to lightwave@bobsbox.rent.com\n (Bob Lindabury)\n\nToaster\n-------\n send subscription requests to listserv@karazm.math.uh.edu with a *body* of:\n subscribe toaster-list\n\nReal 3D\n-------\n Another modeling and animation system for the Amiga:\n To subscribe, send a mail containing the body\n\n subscribe real3d-l <Your full name>\n\n to listserv@gu.uwa.edu.au\n\nRayshade\n--------\n send subscription requests to rayshade-request@cs.princeton.edu\n send material to rayshade-users@cs.princeton.edu\n (Craig Kolb)\n\nAlladin 4D for the Amiga\n----------\n send subscription requests to subscribe@xamiga.linet.org\n\n and in the body of the message write\n\n #Alladin 4D username@domain\n\nRadiance\n--------\n Greg Ward, the author, sends to registered (via e-mail) users digests of\n his correspodence with them, notes about fixes, updates, etc.\n His address is: gjward@lbl.gov\n\nREND386\n-------\n send subscription requests to rend386-request@sunee.waterloo.edu\n send material to rend386@sunee.waterloo.edu\n\nPoV ray / DKB raytracers\n------------------------\n To subscribe, send a mail containing the body\n\n subscribe dkb-l <Your full name>\n\n to listserv@trearn.bitnet\n\n send material to dkb-l@trearn.bitnet\n\nMailing List for Massively Parallel Rendering\n---------------------------------------------\n send subscription requests to mp-render-request@icase.edu\n send material to mp-render@icase.edu\n\n==========================================================================\n\n6. 3D graphics editors\n======================\n\na. Public domain, free and shareware systems\n============================================\n\nVISION-3D\n---------\n Mac-based program written by Paul D. Bourke (pdbourke@ccu1.aukland.ac.nz).\n The program can be used to generate models directly in the RayShade\n and Radiance file formats (polygons only).\n It\'s shareware and listed on the FTP list.\n\nBRL\n---\n A solid modeling system for most environments -- including SGI and X11.\n It has CSG and NURBS, plus support for Non-Manifold Geometry\n [Whatever it is].\n\n You can get it *free* via FTP by signing and returning the relevant license,\n found on ftp.brl.mil. Uses ray-tracing for engineering analyses.\n\n Contact:\n\n Ms. Carla Moyer\n (410)-273-7794 tel.\n (410)-272-6763 FAX\n cad-dist@brl.mil E-mail\n\n Snail mail:\n\n BRL-CAD Distribution\n SURVIAC Aberdeen Satellite Office 1003\n Old Philadelphia Road,\n Suite 103 Aberdeen\n MD 21001 USA\n\nIRIT\n----\n A constructive solid geometry (CSG) modeling program for PC and X11.\n Includes freeform surface support. Free - see FTP list for where to\n find it.\n\nSurfModel\n---------\n A solid modeling program for PC written in Turbo Pascal 6.0 by\n Ken Van Camp. Available from SIMTEL, pd1:<msdos.srfmodl> directory.\n\nNOODLES\n-------\n From CMU, namely Fritz Printz and Levent Gursoz (elg@styx.edrc.cmu.edu).\n It\'s based on Non Manifold Topology.\n Ask them for more info, I don\'t know if they give it away.\n\nXYZ2\n----\n XYZ2 is an interactive 3-D editor/builder written by Dale P. Stocker to\n create objects for the SurfaceModel, Automove, and DKB raytracer packages.\n XYZ2 is free and can be found, for example, in SIMTEL20 as\n <MSDOS.SURFMODL>XYZ21.ZIP (DOS only??)\n\n3DMOD\n-----\n It\'s an MSDOS program. Check at barnacle.erc.clarkson.edu [128.153.28.12],\n /pub/msdos/graphics/3dmod.* . Undocumented file format :-(\n 3DMOD is (C) 1991 by Micah Silverman, 25 Pierrepoint Ave., Postdam,\n New York 13676, tel. 315-265-7140\n\nNORTHCAD\n--------\n Shareware, <MSDOS.CAD>NCAD3D42.ZIP in SIMTEL20. Undocumented file format :-(\n\nVertex\n------\n (Amiga)\n Shareware, send $40 US (check or money order) to:\n\n The Art Machine, 4189 Nickolas\n Sterling Heights, MI 48310\n USA\n\n In addition to the now standard file formats, including Lightwave,\n Imagine, Sculpt, Turbo Silver, GEO and Wavefront, this release offers\n 3D Professional and RayShade support. (Rayshade is supported only by\n the primitive "triangle", but you can easily include this output in\n your RayShade scripts)\n\n The latest demo, version 1.62, is available on Fred Fish #727.\n\n For more information, contact the author, Alex Deburie, at:\n\n ad99s461@sycom.mi.org, Phone: (313) 939-2513\n \n\nICoons\n------\n (Amiga)\n It\'s a spline based object modeller ("ICoons" = Interactive \n COONS path editor) in amiga.physik.unizh.ch (gfx/3d/ICoons1.0.lzh).\n It\'s free (under the GNU Licence) and requires FPU.\n\n The program has a look&feel which is a cross between Journeyman and\n Imagine, and it generates objects in TTDDD format.\n\n It is possible to load Journeyman objects into ICoons, so the program\n can be used to convert JMan objects to Imagine format.\n\n Author: Helge E. Rasmussen <her@compel.dk>\n PHONE + 45 36 72 33 00, FAX + 45 36 72 43 00\n\n[ It\'s also on Fred Fish disk series n.775 - nfotis ]\n\n\nProtoCAD 3D\n-----------\n Ver 1.1 from Trius (shareware?)\n\n It\'s at wsmr-simtel20.army.mil and oak.oakland.edu as PCAD3D.ZIP (for PCs)\n\n It has this menu layout:\n\n FILE File handling (Load, Save, Import, Xport...)\n DRAW Draw 2D objects (Line, Circle, Box...)\n 3D Draw 3D objects (Mesh, Sphere, Block...)\n EDIT Editing features (Copy, Move ...)\n SURFACE Modify objects (Revolve, Xtrude, Sweep...)\n IMAGE Image zooming features (Update, Window, Half...)\n OPTION Global defaults (Grid, Toggles, Axis...)\n PLOT Print drawing/picture (Go, Image...)\n RENDER Shade objects (Frame, Lighting, Tune...)\n LAYER Layer options (Select active layer, set Colors...)\n\nSculptura\n---------\n Runs under Windows 3.1, and outputs PoV files. A demo can be found\n on wuarchive.wustl.edu in mirrors/win3/demo/demo3d.zip\n\n Author: Michael Gibson <gibsonm@stein.u.washington.edu>\n\n\nb. Commercial systems\n=====================\n\nAlpha_1\n-------\n A spline-based modeling program written in University of Utah.\n Features: splines up to trimmed NURBS; support for boolean operations;\n sweeps, bending, warping, flattening etc.; groups of objects, and\n transformations; extensible object types.\n Applications include: NC machining, Animation utilities,\n Dimensioning, FEM analysis, etc.\n Rendering subsystem, with support for animations.\n Support the following platforms: HP 300 and 800\'s (X11R4, HP-UX 6.5),\n SGI 4D or PI machines (X11R4 and GL, IRIX 3.3.1), Sun SparcStation\n (X11R4, SunOS 4.1.1).\n \n Licensing and distribution is handled by EGS:\n Glenn McMinn, President\n Engineering Geometry Systems\n 275 East South Temple, Suite 305\n Salt Lake City, UT 84111\n (801) 575-6021\n mcminn@cs.utah.edu\n\n [ Educational pricing ]\n The charge is $675 per platform. You may run the system on as many\n different workstations of that type as you wish. For each platform\n there is also a $250 licensing fee for Portable Standard Lisp (PSL)\n which is bundled with the system. You need to obtain an additional\n license from the University of Utah for PSL from the following address:\n Professor Robert Kessler\n Computer Science Department\n University of Utah\n Salt Lake City, Utah 84112\n\n [ EGS can handle the licensing of PSL for U.S. institutions for a\n 300 $USD nominal fee -- nfotis ]\n\nVERTIGO\n-------\n\n They have an Educational Institution Program. The package is used in\n the industrial design, architectural, scientific visualization,\n educational, broadcast, imaging and post production fields.\n\n They\'ll [quoting from a letter sent to me -- nfotis ] "donate fully\n configured Vertigo 3D Graphics Software worth over $29,000USD per\n package to qualified educational institutions for licencing on any\n number of Silicon Graphics Personal IRIS or POWER Series Workstations.\n If you use an IRIS Indigo station, we will also licence our Vertigo\n Revolution Software (worth $12,000USD).\n\n If you are interested in participating in this program please send a\n letter by mail or fax (604/684-2108) on your institution\'s letterhead\n briefly outlining your potential uses for Vertigo together with the\n following information: 1. UNIX version 2. Model and number of SGI\n systems 3. Peripheral devices 4. Third Party Software.\n\n Participants will be asked to contribute $750USD per institution to cover\n costs of the manual, administration, and shipping.\n\n We recommend that Vertigo users subscribe to our technical support\n services. For an annual fee you will receive: technical assistance\n on our support hotline, bug fixes, software upgrades and manual updates.\n For educational institution we will waive the $750 administration fee\n if support is purchased.\n\n The annual support fee is $2,500 plus the following cost for additional\n machines:\n\n Number of machines:\t\t2-20\t\t20+\n Additional cost per machine:\t$700\t\t$600 "\n\n[ There\'s also a 5-day training program - nfotis]\n\nContact:\n Vertigo Technology INC\n Suite 1010\n 1030 West Georgia St.\n VANCOUVER, BC\n CANADA, V6E 2Y3\n\n Phone: 604/684-2113\n Fax: 604/684-2108\n\n[ Does anyone know of such offers from TDI, Alias, Softimage, Wavefront,\n etc.??? this would be a VERY interesting part!! -- nfotis ]\n\nPADL-2\n------\n[ Basically, it\'s a Solid Modeling Kernel in top of which you build your\n application(s)]\n\n Available by license from\n Cornell Programmable Automation\n Cornell University\n 106 Engineering and Theory Center\n Ithaca, NY 14853\n\n License fees are very low for educational institutions and gov\'t agencies.\n Internal commercial licenses and re-dissemination licenses are available.\n For an information packet, write to the above address, or send your\n address to: marisa@cpa.tn.cornell.edu (Richard Marisa)\n\nACIS\n----\n From Spatial Technology. It\'s a Solid Modelling kernel callable from C.\n Heard that many universities got free copies from the company.\n The person to contact regarding ACIS in academic institutions is\n\n Scott Owens, e-mail: sdo@spatial.com\n\n And their address is:\n\n Spatial Technology, Inc.\n 2425 55th St., Bldg. A\n Boulder, CO 80301-5704\n Phone: (303) 449-0649, Fax: (303) 449-0926\n\nMOVIE-BYU / CQUEL.BYU\n---------------------\n Basically [in my understanding], this is a FEM pre- and post-proccessor\n system. It\'s fairly old today, but it still serves some people in\n Mech. Eng. Depts.\n Now it\'s superseded from CQUEL.BYU (pronounced "sequel"). That\'s a\n complete modelling, animation and visualization package. Runs in the usual\n workstation environments (SUN, DEC, HP, SGI, IBM RS6000, and others)\n You can get a demo version (30-days trial period) either by sending $20\n USD in their address or a blank tape. It costs 1,500 for a full run-time\n licence.\n\n Contact:\n\n Engineering Computer Graphics Lab\n 368 Clyde Building, Brigham Young Univ.\n Provo, UT 84602\n Phone: 801-378-2812\n E-mail: cquel@byu.edu\n\n\ntwixt\n-----\n Soon to add stuff about it... If I get a reply to my FAX\n\nVOXBLAST\n--------\n It\'s a volume renderer marketed by:\n Vaytek Inc. (Fairfield, Iowa phone: 515-472-2227) , running on PCs\n with 386+FPU at least. Call Vaytek for more info.\n\nVoxelBox\n--------\n A 3D Volume renderer for Windows. Features include direct\n ray-traced volume rendering, color and alpha mapping,\n gradient lighting, animation, reflections and shadows.\n\n Runs on a PC(386 or higher) with at least an 8 bit video card(SVGA is fine)\n under Windows 3.x. It costs $495.\n\n Contact:\n\n Jaguar Software Inc.\n 573 Main St., Suite 9B\n Winchester, MA 01890\n (617) 729-3659\n jwp@world.std.com (john w poduska)\n\n==========================================================================\n\n7. Scene description languages\n==============================\n\nNFF\n---\n Neutral file format , by Eric Haines. Very simple, there are some\n procedural database generators in the SPD package, and many objects\n floating in various FTP sites. There\'s also a previewer written in\n HP Starbase from E.Haines. Also there\'s one written in VOGLE, so you can\n use any of the devices VOGLE can output on.\n (Check in sites carrying VOGLE, like gondwana.ecr.mu.oz.au)\n\nOFF\n---\n Object file format, from DEC\'s Randy Rost (rost@kpc.com).\n[ The object archive server seems to be mothballed. In a future version,\n I\'ll remove the ref. to it -- nfotis ]\n\n Available also through their mail server. To obtain help about using this\n service, send a message with a "Subject:" line containing only the word\n "help" and a null message body to: object-archive-server@decwrl.dec.com.\n [For FTP places to get it, see in the relevant place]. There\'s an OFF\n previewer for SGI 4D machines, called off-preview in\n godzilla.cgl.rmit.oz.au . There are previewers for xview and sunview,\n also on gondwana.\n\nTDDD\n----\nIt\'s a library of 3D objects with translators to/from OFF, NFF,\nRayshade, Imagine or vort objects.\nEdited copy of the announcement follows (from Raytracing News, V4,#3):\n\n New Library of 3D Objects Available via FTP, by Steve Worley\n (worley@cup.portal.com)\n\n I have assembled a set of over 150 3D objects in a binary format\n called TDDD. These objects range from human figures to airplanes,\n from semi-trucks to lampposts. These objects are all freely\n distributable, and most have READMEs that describe them.\n\n In order to convert these objects to a human-readable format, a file\n with the specification of TDDD is included in the directory with the\n objects. There is also a shareware system called TTDDDLIB (officially\n on hubcap.clemson.edu) that will convert (ala PBM+) to/from various\n object formats : Imagine TTDDD (extension of TDDD?), OFF, NFF,\n Rayshade 4.0, or vort. Source included for Amiga/Unix as executables\n for the Amiga. Also outputs Framemaker MIF files and isometric views\n in Postscript.\n\nP3D\n---\n From Pittsburgh Supercomputing Center. The P3D uses lisp with slight\n extensions to store three-dimensional models. A simple lisp\n interpreter is included with the P3D release, so there is no need to\n have access to any vendor\'s lisp to run this software.\n\n The mouse-driven user interfaces for Motif, Open Look, and Silicon\n Graphics GL, and the DrawP3D subroutine library for generating P3D\n without ever looking at the underlying Lisp.\n\n The P3D software currently supports nine renderers. They are:\n Painter - Painter\'s Algorithm, Dore, Silicon Graphics Inc. GL language,\n Generic Phigs, Sun Phigs+, DEC Phigs+, Rayshade, ART ray tracer (from\n VORT package) and Pixar RenderMan.\n\n The code is available via anonymous FTP from the machines\n ftp.psc.edu, directory pub/p3d, and nic.funet.fi, directory\n pub/graphics/programs/p3d.\n\nRenderMan\n---------\n Pixar\'s RenderMan is not free - call Pixar for details.\n\n==========================================================================\n\n8. Solids description formats\n=============================\n\na. EEC\'s ESPRIT project 322 CAD*I (CAD Interfaces) has developed a\n neutral file format for transfer of CAD data (curves, surfaces, and\n solid models between CAD systems and from CAD to CAA (Computer Aided\n Analysis) an CAM (Computer Aided Manufacturing)\n\nb. IGES [v. 5.1 now] tries to define a standard to tranfer solid\n models - Brep and CSG. The current standard number is ANSI Y14.26M-1987\n For documentation, you might want to contact Nancy Flower at\n NCGA Technical Services and Standards, 1-800-225-6242 ext. 325\n and the cost is $100.\n This standard is not available in electronic format.\n\nc. PDES/STEP : This slowly emerging standard tries to encompass not only\n the geometrical information, but also for things like FEM, etc.\n The main bodies besides this standard are NIST and DARPA. You can get\n more information about PDES by sending mail to nptserver@cme.nist.gov\n and putting the line\n\tsend index\n in the body (NOT the Subject:) area of the message.\n\n The people at Rutherford Appleton Lab. are also working\n on STEP tools: they have an EXPRESS compiler and an Exchange file parser,\n both available in source form (and for free) for research purposes.\n Soon they will also have an EXPRESS-based database system.\n\n For the tools contact Mike Mead, Phone: +44 (0235) 44 6710 (FAX: x 5893),\n e-mail: mm@inf.rl.ac.uk or {...!}mcsun!uknet!rlinf!mm or\n mm%inf.rl.ac.uk@NSFnet-relay.ac.uk\n\n==========================================================================\n\nEnd of Part 1 of the Resource Listing\n-- \nNick (Nikolaos) Fotis National Technical Univ. of Athens, Greece\nHOME: 16 Esperidon St., InterNet : nfotis@theseas.ntua.gr\n Halandri, GR - 152 32 UUCP: mcsun!ariadne!theseas!nfotis\n Athens, GREECE FAX: (+30 1) 77 84 578\n',
'From: pages!bwebster@uunet.uu.net (Bruce F. Webster)\nSubject: Re: Mormon beliefs about bastards\nReply-To: pages!bwebster@uunet.uu.net\nOrganization: Pages Software Inc.\nLines: 63\n\nIn article <May.9.05.41.46.1993.27571@athos.rutgers.edu> erh0362@tesla.njit.edu \nwrites:\n> \n> Could anyone enlighten me on how the Mormon church views \n> children born out of wedlock? In particular I\'m interested to know if any \n> stigma is attached to the children as opposed to the parents. I\'m especially \n> keen to learn if there is or is not any prohibition in the Mormon faith on \n> bastards entering heaven or having their names entered in the big \ngenealogical \n> book the Mormons keep in Salt Lake City. If this is an issue on which the \n> "official" position has changed over time, I\'m interested in learning both \nold \n> and new beliefs. E-mail or posting is fine. All information or pointers are \n> appreciated.\n> \n\nWell, since my wife is (in your gentle term) a "bastard", I can\nprobably speak with a bit of authority on this. Any "stigma"\nassociated with children conceived and/or born out of wedlock rests\nsolely upon the parents--they\'ve committed a sexual transgression for\nwhich they should repent. The child itself has no a priori limitations\non him or her; indeed, the concept of blaming the child for the\nparents\' sins is one most Mormons would find appalling; note that LDS\ntheology rejects original sin, as the term is usually defined, and the\nsubsequent need for infant baptism (cf. Moroni 8 in the Book of\nMormon). Indeed, LDS doctrine goes one step further and in some cases\nholds parents responsible for their children\'s sins if they have\nfailed to bring them up properly (cf. D&C 68:25-28; note that this\npassage applies it only to members of the LDS Church).\n\nAlso note that there is no "big genealogical book in Salt Lake City".\nThe LDS Church has a massive storage facility in the nearby mountains\ncontaining (on microfilm) vital statistic records (birth, christening,\nbaptism, marriage, death) gathered from all over the entire world. I\nmay be misremembering, but I believe they have records for some 2\nbillion people in that vault. At the same time, the LDS Church is\nbuilding up an on-line genealogical database. In neither case is there\nsome kind of "worthiness screening" as to whether someone can be\nentered in. The only potential issue is that of establishing who the\nparents were, and that would apply only in the case of the database.\n..bruce..\n\n-------------------------------------------------------------------------------\nBruce F. Webster | I love the Constitution of this land,\nCTO, Pages Software Inc | but I hate the damned rascals that\nbwebster@pages.com | administer it. \n#import <pages/disclaimer.h> | -- attributed to Brigham Young\n-------------------------------------------------------------------------------\n\n[The following arrived as a separate posting --clh]\n\nA follow-up to my own follow-up--lest anyone misunderstand, the term\n"bastard" is one which I have never in 25 years of LDS Church\nmembership heard applied, formally or informally, to a child born out\nof wedlock, and indeed would (rightly) be considered a vulgar,\noffensive term. I would not have echoed the expression in my reply,\nexcept in hopes that the poster would recognize the offensive nature\nof the word in the given context. Unfortunately, after posting my\nreply, I remembered that subtle points are often lost on the \'net, and\nfigured I\'d better spell it out. ..bruce..\n\nBruce F. Webster\nbwebster@pages.com\n',
'From: "nigel allen" <nigel.allen@canrem.com>\nSubject: Occupational Injuries and Disease: Workers Memorial Day\nReply-To: "nigel allen" <nigel.allen@canrem.com>\nOrganization: Canada Remote Systems\nDistribution: sci\nLines: 97\n\n\nHere is a press release from the American Federation of State, \nCounty and Municipal Employees.\n\n Unions Point To Deadly Workplaces; AFSCME, Other Unions\nCommemorate Workers Memorial Day\n To: National Desk, Labor Writer\n Contact: Janet Rivera of the American Federation of State, County\nand Municipal Employees, AFL-CIO, 202-429-1130\n\n WASHINGTON, April 23 -- The American Federation of State, \nCounty and Municipal Employees (AFSCME) and other unions\nof the AFL-CIO on Wednesday, April 28, will commemorate the fifth\nannual Workers Memorial Day -- a day to pay homage to the 6\nmillion workers who are killed, injured, or diseased on the job.\n This year, AFSCME will focus its Workers Memorial Day efforts an\nthe dangerous environment in which corrections officers must work.\nEarlier this month, an AFSCME corrections officer, Robert\nVallandingham, was killed by inmates who overtook the corrections\nfacility in Lucasville, Ohio.\n The law and order agenda of the 1980s has resulted in a steady\nincrease in the prison population for the past five years. On\nJn. 1, 1992, the prison population was 709,587. Projections\nshow a continued increase in the number of inmates, with an\nexpected prison population of 811,253 in 1994.\n The conditions which this burgeoning prison population has\ncreated for corrections officers is partially reflected in the\nnumber of assaults by inmates against staff. Assaults against\nstaff increased dramatically between 1987 and 1989, and remain\nhigh. In 1987, there were 808 assaults by inmates against staff,\ncompared to 9,961 such assaults in 1991.\n The increased number of inmates has brought on the dangerous\ncombination of overcrowding and understaffing. For example in Ohio\nofficer-to-inmate ratio is 1 to 8.4 -- the second worst ratio in\nthe nation. The national average is 1 to 5.3. Other health and\nsafety issues facing corrections officers include AIDS, Hepatitis\nB, tuberculosis, stress, and chemical hazards.\n AFSCME has more than 50,000 members who work in the nation\'s\nfederal, state and local correctional facilities.\n Correction officers are not alone in performing their jobs under\nlife-threatening conditions. Every year, 10,000 American workers\ndie from job-related injuries, and tens of thousands more die from\noccupational disease. Public employees do some of the nation\'s\nmost dangerous jobs. Perilous occupations include:\n\n -- Highway Workers - Highway workers are often injured and\n frequently killed by moving traffic because work zones are\n not barricaded or don\'t have proper lighting.\n -- Health Care Workers - Hospitals have the highest number of\n job-related injuries and illnesses of any private sector\n employer and nursing homes ranked fifth. There were more\n than 325,000 job-related illnesses and injuries in private\n sector hospitals in 1991, up almost 10 percent over the\n previous year. It is generally believed that health care\n workers employed at public sector hospitals and nursing homes\n have a significantly higher rate of injuries and illnesses\n than do their private sector counterparts. Health and safety\n issues facing health care workers include exposure to\n tuberculosis and the HIV virus, back injuries, and high\n levels of stress.\n -- Social Workers - Social workers who work in mental health\n institutions are often the victims of assaults and,\n sometimes, fatal attacks. For instance, last October, a man\n carrying a semiautomatic handgun walked into the Schuyler\n County Social Services Building in Watkins Glenn, N.Y.\n and fatally shot social services workers, before turning the\n gun on himself. There are two basic problems. First is a\n growing lack of support services for people who don\'t have\n the help they need. Because workers are overworked, some\n clients are not given the adequate amount of counselling.\n Such conditions may cause clients to become more frustrated.\n The "quality" of the clients is also becoming more violent,\n as more are moved out of the institutions.\n\n Nearly 2 million workers have been killed by workplace hazards\nsince OSHA was passed. Moreover, as AFSCME President Gerald W.\nMcEntee explains, OSHA does not provide workplace safety\nprotections for public employees.\n "More than 1,600 public employees are killed each year on the\njob, yet 27 states still provide no federally-approved OSHA\ncoverage for public employees," said McEntee. "This, despite the\nfact that public employees -- highway workers, health care workers,\ncorrections officers, to name but a few -- do some of the most\ndangerous work in our society. This year we are fighting for\npassage of OSHA reform legislation to give all workers greater\nrights and protections, and finally guarantee all public employees\nsafe workplaces. We need the public support to be successful."\n Government workers suffer 25 percent more injuries than private\nsector workers, and these injuries are almost 75 percent more\nsevere.\n Public employees were exempted from OSHA when the law was passed\nin 1970 and today, public employees in more than half the states\nhave no OSHA coverage.\n -30-\n--\nCanada Remote Systems - Toronto, Ontario\n416-629-7000/629-7044\n',
'From: etllnfr@magrathea.ericsson.se (Lyndon Fletcher)\nSubject: Polaroid Palette system?????????????????????\nNntp-Posting-Host: magrathea.ericsson.se\nOrganization: Ericsson Cellular Division\nLines: 15\n\n\nDoes anyone have any information on the Polaroid Palette system. It appears to\nbe a gadget for transfering graphics images to film. Does anyone have any detail\nabout it like the maximum supported resolution or types of video input????\n\nWhat did Polaroid market them as?????\n\n\n\nFletch\n--\n"All irregularities will be handled by the forces controlling each dimension.\n Trans-uranic heavy elements may not be used where there is Life. Medium atomic\n weights are available -- Gold, Lead, Copper, Jet, Diamond, Radium, Sapphire,\n Silver, and Steel. --- Sapphire and Steel have been assigned......."\n',
'From: eas3714@ultb.isc.rit.edu (E.A. Story)\nSubject: Re: Krillean Photography\nNntp-Posting-Host: ultb-gw.isc.rit.edu\nOrganization: Rochester Institute of Technology\nLines: 16\n\nIn article <1rgrsvINNmpr@gap.caltech.edu> carl@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU writes:\n>Greg:Flame definitely intended here. Bill was making fun of the misspelling. \n>Go look up the word "krill." Also, the correct spelling is Kirlian. It\n>involves taking photographs of corona discharges created by attaching the\n>subject to a high-voltage source, not of some "aura." It works equally well\n>with inanimate objects.\n\nTrue.. but what about showing the missing part of a leaf? Is this\n"corona discharge"?\n\n\n\n-- \n"THAT is a DRY turtle. That turtle is NOT moist!"\nEzra Story, a student at RIT, and\neas3714@ultb.isc.rit.edu, his trusty(?) mailing address.\n',
'From: fortmann@superbowl.und.ac.za (Paul Fortmann - PG)\nSubject: "The Word Perfect" EXE file needed\nOrganization: University Of Natal (Durban)\nLines: 14\n\nA friend of mine managed to get a copy of a computerised Greek and Hebrew \nLexicon called "The Word Perfect" (That is not the word processing \npackage WordPerfect). However, some one wiped out the EXE file, and she \nhas not been able to restore it. There are no distributors of the package in \nSouth Africa. I would appreciate it, if some one could email me the file, or \nat least tell me where I could get it from. \n\nMy email address is\n\tfortmann@superbowl.und.ac.za or\n\tfortmann@shrike.und.ac.za\n \nMany thanks.\n\nIn Him, Paul Fortmann\n',
"From: dsew@troi.cc.rochester.edu (David Sewell)\nSubject: Theophylline/ephedrine and water bio-availability\nOrganization: University of Rochester - Rochester, New York\nLines: 19\nNntp-Posting-Host: troi.cc.rochester.edu\n\nDoes anyone know if either theophylline or ephedrine, or the two in\ncombination, can reduce the body's ability to make use of \navailable water? I had kind of an odd experience on a group hike\nrecently, becoming dehyrated after about 9 hours of rigorous\nhiking despite having brought 1 1/2 gallons of water (c. 6 liters).\nI drank close to twice as much as anyone else, and no one else was\ndehydrated. I don't think general physical condition was an issue,\nsince I was in at least the middle of the pack in terms of general\nstamina, so far as I could tell.\n\nIt may be that I just plain need more water than most people. But I am\nwondering if theophylline and/or ephedrine might be aggravating things.\nI took a couple of Primatene tablets during the hike to control asthma\n(24 mg. ephedrine, 100 mg. theophylline). I gather that both those\ndrugs are diuretics. So now I'm wondering: does that mean they can\nreduce the body's ability to utilize available water? Would it be a\nparticularly stupid thing to take that medication during hot-weather\nexercise? (I always assumed diuresis just meant you urinated a lot, but\nthat wasn't the case yesterday.)\n",
"Subject: Front end for POVRay\nFrom: Tomasz.Piatek@comp.vuw.ac.nz (Tomasz Piatek)\nOrganization: Dept. of Comp. Sci., Victoria Uni. of Wellington, New Zealand.\nKeywords: POVRay\nNNTP-Posting-Host: regent.comp.vuw.ac.nz\nLines: 19\n\nG'day all!\n\nDoes anyone know anything about front end for POVRay (X11 version)?\nI mean are there things like user friendly modeller for POVRay, or any\nmodellers which will let me design a scene and produce a file which POVRay\ncan then read?\nCheers,\nTomek\n\n+------------------------------------------------------+\n| /\\ tm |\n| /--\\TOMEK tpiatek@comp.vuw.ac.nz <-- New Zealand |\n+------------------------------------------------------+\n\n-- \n+------------------------------------------------------+\n| /\\ tm |\n| /--\\TOMEK tpiatek@comp.vuw.ac.nz <-- New Zealand |\n+------------------------------------------------------+\n",
'From: mpaul@unl.edu (marxhausen paul)\nSubject: Re: Mary\'s assumption\nOrganization: University of Nebraska--Lincoln\nLines: 34\n\nDavid.Bernard@central.sun.com (Dave Bernard) writes:\n\n>When Elizabeth greeted Mary, Elizabeth said something to the effect that\n>Mary, out of all women, was blessed. If so, it appears that this\n>exactly places Mary beyond the sanctification of normal humanity.\n\nI don\'t see how this logically follows. True enough, Mary received a blessing\nbeyond any granted in all the history of humanity by being privileged to be \nthe mother of the Savior. It says nothing about Mary needing to be a "blessed \nperson" _first_ in order that she might thereby be worthy to bear the Son of \nGod. Again, I think the problem is that as humans we can\'t comprehend how the \nsinless Incarnation could spring from sinful human flesh and God\'s Spirit.\nRather than simply accept the gracious miracle of God, we must needs try\nto dope out a mechanism or rationale as to how this could be. Mary\'s own\nwords, \n\n"...my spirit rejoices in God _my Savior_, for he has regarded the low\n estate of his handmaiden,..."\n\nsound like the words of a human aware of her own humanity, in need of a \nSavior, similar to what David proclaimed in his psalms...not the words\nof a holy being with no further need for God\'s grace.\n\nI really apologize for harping on this, I don\'t suppose it\'s important.\nIt\'s just that I see Mary and Joseph and the Baby reduced to placid,\nserene figurines I feel we lose the wonder in the fact that God chose\nto come down to you and I, to be born of people like you and I, to share\nour existence and redeem us from it\'s fallenness by his holy Incarnation.\n\n--\npaul marxhausen .... ....... ............. ............ ............ .......... \n .. . . . . . university of nebraska - lincoln . . . .. . . .. . . . . . . .\n . . . . . . . . . . . . . . grace . . . . \n . . . . . . . . happens . \n',
'From: scharle@lukasiewicz.cc.nd.edu (scharle)\nSubject: Re: Rawlins debunks creationism\nReply-To: scharle@lukasiewicz.cc.nd.edu (scharle)\nOrganization: Univ. of Notre Dame\nLines: 54\n\nIn article <30151@ursa.bear.com>, halat@pooh.bears (Jim Halat) writes:\n|> In article <C5snCL.J8o@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu>, adpeters@sunflower.bio.indiana.edu (Andy Peters) writes:\n|> \n|> >Evolution, as I have said before, is theory _and_ fact. It is exactly\n|> >the same amount of each as the existence of atoms and the existence of\n|> >gravity. If you accept the existence of atoms and gravity as fact,\n|> >then you should also accept the existence of evolution as fact.\n|> >\n|> >-- \n|> >--Andy\n|> \n|> I don\'t accept atoms or gravity as fact either. They are extremely useful\n|> mathematical models to describe physical observations we can make.\n|> Other posters have aptly explained the atomic model. Gravity, too, is\n|> very much a theory; no gravity waves have even been detected, but we\n|> have a very useful model that describes much of the behavior on\n|> objects by this thing we _call_ gravity. Gravity, however, is _not_ \n|> a fact. It is a theoretical model used to talk about how objects \n|> behave in our physical environment. Newton thought gravity was a\n|> simple vector force; Einstein a wave. Both are very useful models that \n|> have no religious overtones or requirements of faith, unless of course you \n|> want to demand that it is a factual physical entity described exactly \n|> the way the theory now formulated talks about it. That takes a great \n|> leap of faith, which, of course, is what religion takes. Evolution\n|> is no different.\n|> \n|> -- \n|> jim halat halat@bear.com \n|> bear-stearns --whatever doesn\'t kill you will only serve to annoy you--\n|> nyc i speak only for myself\n\n What do you accept as a fact -- the roundness of the earth (after \nall, the ancient Greeks thought it was a sphere, and then Newton said \nit was a spheroid, and now people say it\'s a geoid [?])? yourself \n(isn\'t your personal identity just a theoretical construct to make \nsense of memories, feelings, perceptions)? I\'m trying to think of \nanything that would be a fact for you. Give some examples, and let\'s\nsee how factual they are by your criteria (BTW, what are your\ncriteria?).\n\n "Gravity is _not_ a fact": is that a fact? How about Newton\'s \nand Einstein\'s thoughts about gravity -- is it a fact that they had \nthose thoughts? I don\'t see how any of the things that you are \nasserting are any more factual than things like gravity, atoms or \nevolution.\n\n In short, before I am willing to consider your concept of what\na fact is, I\'m going to have to have, as a minimum, some examples of\nwhat you think are facts.\n\n-- \nTom Scharle |scharle@irishmvs\nRoom G003 Computing Center |scharle@lukasiewicz.cc.nd.edu\nUniversity of Notre Dame Notre Dame, IN 46556-0539 USA\n',
"From: grant@cs.uct.ac.za (Grant Wyatt)\nSubject: Re: Satan kicked out of heaven: Biblical?\nOrganization: Computer Science Department, University of Cape Town\nLines: 18\n\nIn <May.14.02.11.36.1993.25219@athos.rutgers.edu> tas@pegasus.com (Len Howard) writes:\n>> I have a question about Satan. I was taught a long time ago\n>>that Satan was really an angel of God and was kicked out of heaven\n>>because he challenged God's authority. The problem is, I cannot\n>>find this in the Bible. Is it in the Bible? If not, where did it\n>>originate?\n> \n[ref to Rev 12:7-12 deleted]\n\nAlso read Ezek 28:13-19. This is a desctiption of Lucifer (later Satan)\nand how beautiful He was, etc, etc\n\nGrant\n--\n| __o __o For God has not given us a spirit of fear, |\n| _ -\\<,_ _`\\<,_ but a spirit of love, of power and a sound |\n| (_)|/-(_) (*)/ (*) mind. 2 Tim 1:7 Phone : +27 21 650 4057 |\n\\__________________________________________________________________/\n",
"From: kmldorf@utdallas.edu (George Kimeldorf)\nSubject: Re: Sinus Surgery / Septoplasty \nNntp-Posting-Host: heath.utdallas.edu\nOrganization: Univ. of Texas at Dallas\nLines: 14\n\nIn article <badboyC64t0z.FGq@netcom.com> badboy@netcom.com (Jay Keller) writes:\n>\n>(I've already heard from a couple who said they had it and it didn't\n>really help them).\n>\n>I am a moderately severe asthmatic. ENT doc says large percentage see some\n>relief of their asthma after sinus surgery. Also he said it is not unheard of\n>that migraines go away after chronis sinusitis is relieved.\n>\n>\n>\nDid your ENT also tell you that this procedure may remove warts from the soles\nof your feet and improve your sex life?\n\n",
"From: russ@pmafire.inel.gov (Russ Brown)\nSubject: Re: Nasopharinx Carcenoma...\nOrganization: WINCO\nLines: 17\n\nIn article <+y55z0d@rpi.edu> chungy2@rebecca.its.rpi.edu (Yau Felix Chung) writes:\n>\n>Hi. Does anyone know the possible causes of nasoparynx carcenoma\n>and what are the chances of it being hereditary?\n\nNasopharyngeal cancer is (roughly, don't have references at hand) 20-30\ntimes more prevalent in Chinese than Caucasians, particularly those Chinese\nfrom southern China. One province (or region) has an extraordinary excess. \nThe Chinese and others have done major studies. Some association with\nthe Epstein-Barr virus has been noted.\n>\n>Also, in the advacned cases, what is the general procedure to \n>reduce the pain the area as it prevents the patient from eating\n>due to the excessive pain of swallowing and even talking?\n>\nPalliative radiotherapy is used.\n\n",
'From: Eugene.Bigelow@ebay.sun.com (Geno )\nSubject: Re: Mary\'s assumption\nReply-To: Eugene.Bigelow@ebay.sun.com\nOrganization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.\nLines: 9\n\n>When Elizabeth greeted Mary, Elizabeth said something to the effect that\n>Mary, out of all women, was blessed. If so, it appears that this\n>exactly places Mary beyond the sanctification of normal humanity.\n\nI remember a couple of times when my ex-girlfriend said that she thought she\nwas blessed because of her son (whom she loved dearly). In fact, I\'ve heard\npeople refer to someone as being blessed quite a few times. It\'s a common\nfigure of speech. Considering that Elizabeth was just another human, I think\nthis passage offers nothing towards justifying the "blessedness" of Mary. \n',
'From: rlhunt@amoco.com (Randy L. Hunt)\nSubject: LOVE in the morning: by Malcolm Smith Ministries\nLines: 184\n\n----- Begin Included Message -----\n\nThe following teaching is brought to you on behalf of Malcolm Smith\nMinistries, a ministry dedicated to leading believers everywhere into a\nknowledge of the love of God. If you would like more info on the ministry,\nand/or would like to comment on whether you found this teaching beneficial,\ne-mail to Randy Hunt at rlhunt@hou.amoco.com.\n\n\nLOVE IN THE MORNING (Psalm 90:14)\n\nby Malcolm Smith\n\nMoses wrote this prayer at a weary time in the history of Israel. A generation\nbefore the time of its writing, the people of Israel had stood at Kadesh,\ngateway to Canaan, and made the fateful choice to go their own way rather\nthan God\'s way. They refused an adventure of faith in God which would\nhave given them Canaan, the homeland of promise. God honored their\ndecision, and said they would wander in the desert only a few miles from the\nland of promise until they were all buried in the sand. The young decision-\nmakers of that fateful day were between twenty and thirty years old, and\ndestined to be dead within forty years... bleached bones in the desert by the\ntime they were seventy-- eighty, at the most. The lives of these wanderers\nhad been unending sadness. Moses described it as ending each year with a\nsigh (v. 9). The fact that they knew, give or take a few months, when they\nwere going to die, underscored the meaninglessness of their existence.\nWhatever heights of success they reached, they would be a heap of bleached\nbones within forty years. The only ones to live outside of that depression of\nhopeless disbelief were Joshua and Caleb, who had stood against the nation\nat Kadesh and had God\' s promise of one day entering the land. The\nforty-year period was finally drawing to an end. The new generation, those\nwho were children at Kadesh, were now grown and eager to take the\ninheritance their parents had refused to enjoy. In the light of this, Moses\nprays...it is time for a new day to begin and the days of misery to be over.\nAll these years, as Moses had walked with these moaning and complaining\npeople through the wilderness of their exile, he had carried a double burden.\nHis was not only the sadness of living in less than what could have been; but\nhe also knew why they had chosen as they had at Kadesh. The problem was\nthat they were ignorant of the character of their God. If asked. "Who is your\nGod?" they would have described Him as the God who is Power. When\nAaron had created their concept of God in an idol. he chose a calf. or young\nbull--a symbol of power, of virility. In their minds, God was the young bull\nwho had impaled Pharaoh on his horns and gored Egypt\'s gods as He led\nIsrael to Sinai. But when man worships a God of power, His miracles grow\nthin and even boring. After miracle food on the desert floor and water\ngushing miraculously from the solid rock through the desert wasteland, the\nGod of Almightiness becomes "ho-hum --What\' s next on the miracle menu?"\nAnd a God of power can be as unpredictable as a young bull calf. He might\nbe all they need, but then...who knows? If He has all power, He has a right\nto do whatever He wants, whenever He wants. The only person these people\nhad known who had absolute power was Pharaoh, and men\'s lives had hung\non the whim of his moods, which could change with the wind. They believed\nGod could work His wonders on their behalf, but they did not know HIM\nand, so, could not trust Him. Israel had a God based on what He DID, His\nacts; Moses knew the heart of God, the motivation behind the acts. From the\nday of his encounter at the burning bush, Moses had been fascinated by God.\nAt Sinai, he asked to be shown His glory...to know who He really was. He\nhad seen what God had done; he wanted to know who God was. This\nrequest was granted, and Moses was given a glimpse of God\'s glorious\nPerson. He had come to know the heart of God as compassion and\nlovingkindness (Exodus 34:6,7). The word "lovingkindness" is not to be\nunderstood as a human kind of love. It speaks of the kind of relationship\narising out of the making of a covenant. It can only be understood as the\nlove that says, "I will never leave you nor forsake you." Lovingkindness is as\ntenacious as a British bulldog; when the world walks out, this love digs in its\nheels and refuses to leave.And it is not human romantic love, based on\nfeelings and rooted in emotions. It is a love of covenant commitment and,\ntherefore, operates quite apart from feelings. God\'s love is not an emotion\nthat wavers day by day; it is the total commitment of His Being to seek our\nhighest and best, and to bring us to our fullest potential as humans. God\ndoes not see something good and beautiful in us which arouses His feelings\nof love toward us...we do not woo Him and cause Him to fall in love with\nus! If that were the case, the first ugly, sinful thing we did would cause Him\nto reject us. He is Love, and He loves us because of who He is-- not\nbecause of who we are. He does not love what we do, but He is committed\nto us, pursuing us down every blind alley and bypath of foolishness. He will\nnot let us go. His is a love that is not looking for what it can get out of us--\nbut a committed love that searches for opportunities to give to us. It is\nsaying to the recipient, "For as long as we shall live, I am for you." The God\nwho has revealed Himself to man through Scripture and, finally, in Jesus--in\nHis coming, and in His death and resurrection--is the God who is\nlovingkindness. Thus He loves us and gives Himself to us...He will never\nleave us nor forsake us. Tragically, many believers have never seen Him as\nlove; they see Him as power. No one will come to faith by just seeing\nmiracles. Miracles point to who He is, and that is when faith springs in the\nheart. Israel did not see God as lovingkindness; they saw His acts of power.\nMoses knew His ways, the kind of God He was, and the love that He had for\nthese people. Because of their total lack of understanding of His love, they\ncould not trust Him to be their strength in taking the land. Faith is born out\nof knowing the love He has for us; it is the resting response to the One who\ngives Himself to us. He is not the force, and to call Him the Almighty is to\nmiss His heart. He is Love who is the Almighty and the Infinite Force. If\nman is to make force or raw power work for him, he must depend on\nknowing the forrnula and have faith in it. But the power that issues from\nlove demands faith in the Person of love Himself. The forty years of\nmeaningless wandering was a monument to a people who had never come to\nknow the God of love. At this point, with the new generation and the\npossibility of enjoying all that God promised, Moses prays verse 14. The\nlanguage Moses uses is reminiscent of a baby having slept secure in its\nmother\'s love, now waking to look up into the delight of her eyes. It is\nwaking to the consciousness of being loved... watched over, cared for,\nprotected, fed, and cleaned, day and night, by the mother. Suppose we were\nto ask, "What has the baby done to deserve this?" or, "Have arrangements\nbeen made for the child to repay the parents for this inconvenience?" Our\nquestions would be considered unnatural, even immoral. The child was\nconceived in love, anticipated and prepared for with love\'s excitement, a love\nthat has been to the gates of death to bring it into being. The parents\' love is\nunconditional, spontaneous...it has nothing to do with the looks of the child\nor its performance. So God is love. He loves us unconditionally,\nspontaneously. We were conceived in His imagination and fashioned after\nHis image, to be brought to where we are at this moment by the blood of the\nLord Jesus. It is slanderous, and immoral, to even ask what we must do to\nearn and deserve that love. The child discovers its personhood and identity\nthrough the eyes and touch, through the cuddles, of its parents\' love. It is a\nscientific fact that a baby who is not touched and held will probably die or, if\nit survives, will have severe emotional problems. And a person who has been\nheld and loved will still never know the true meaning of life without the\nembrace and knowledge of love from God. Moses prays that the new\ngeneration will learn to wake every morning, resting with total confidence in\nthe love of God. and will receive all His promises and blessings with joy and\ngladness. Significantly, Moses prays that they will be SATISFIED with His\nlove. "Satisfied." in the Hebrew language. is a rich picture word describing\nbeing filled with an abundance of gourmet food. It is also used to describe\nthe earth after the rain has soaked it and all the vegetation has received\nenough water. Moses prays that they will awaken every morning to be\ndrenched in the life-giving love of God. That sense of satisfaction is the\nlifelong quest of every man and woman. When we are satisfied in our\ndeepest selves, many of our emotional--and even our physical--problems\ndisappear. Man seeks that sense of satisfaction which comes from feeling\nthat he is fulfilled as a human being...his hours have meaning, which make\nsense out of the ordinary and mundane. Apart from God, man seeks this\nsatisfaction through intellectual pursuit, through the exciting of the\nemotions, and through the feeding of his body...he will even seek it in\nreligious exercise. But man will always be dissatisfied until he is responding\nto the love of the living God. Only in knowing God\'s love will the rest of life\nmake sense. As the forty years drew to a close and the land of promise again\nbecame the inheritance to be taken, Moses prayed this psalm. I find it\nfascinating that he should pray and ask God for a daily revelation of His\nlove. Considering the awe with which the people held Moses. one would\nthink he could have lectured them on the subject of lovingkindness and, by\nthe knowledge they gained, they would live in it. But Moses knew\nbetter. God is the only one who can make known to us His love. We won\'t\nfind it in a religious lecture or a formula which we can learn and use to\nmanipulate Him. Nor is it in a beautiful poem to titillate our emotions and\ngive us God feelings. It is God, himself, the Lover, who must open our eyes\nand satisfy us with His love. This prayer is man, in helplessness, asking God\nto make the love He is real in our hearts. Moses\' prayer was partially\nanswered in the next generation and seen in the exploits of faith which\nworked by love in The Book of Judges. But it would not be answered in its\nfullest dimensions until the coming of the Holy Spirit, who pours out the\nlove of God in our hearts (Romans 5:5). In the history of the early Church,\nwe read of the Holy Spirit "falling upon" the believers. This is an ancient\nexpression that, in modern English, means to give a bear hug. It is used in\nLuke 15 to describe the father running to the prodigal and "falling on his\nneck and kissing him." The Holy Spirit is God hugging you in your deepest\nself and smothering you with divine kisses at the deepest level of your\nbeing. This is not a one-time experience to be filed in our spiritual resumes.\nMoses prayed that morning by morning we would awaken to the realization\nthat we are loved. The world, and much of our religious training, has taught\nus to perform in order to be accepted. We have spent far too long living in a\nstate of doing in order to find satisfaction for ourselves...to find acceptance\nand love from others, and from God. We now come humbled to receive love\nwe cannot earn...to be still and let Him tell us we are loved: to let the Holy\nSpirit descend into us, pouring out the love of God. We come in stillness to\nthink on and repeat His words of love to our minds. which have been jaded\nwith the doctrine of "perform to be accepted." We begin to realize that He\nloves us as we are, and gives meaning and purpose to all of life. I challenge\neveryone reading this to begin each day, from the moment you open your\neyes, by celebrating the God of love and praying this prayer. You may not\nfeel anything, but SOMETHING ALWAYS HAPPENS. I was X-rayed the\nother day. I did not see or feel anything, but I noted that the technicians kept\nbehind protective walls. They know you cannot be exposed to those rays\nwithout being affected. So it is as we consciously begin our day knowing\nthat we are loved. Such experiential knowledge will produce, according to\nMoses, "joy and gladness all our days." Joy is the result of a life that is\nfunctioning as God intended us to function when He made us. You might say\nthat joy is the hum of an engine that is at peak performance. Man\' s highest\nperformance is to rest in the love God has for him... the hum will be joy, and\nthe result will be endless creativity arising from the sense of meaning he now\nhas in life. Stop wandering in the wilderness. Be satisfied with His love and,\nin joy, day by day, receive all His promised blessings.\n\n\n----- End Included Message -----\n',
'From: mccullou@snake2.cs.wisc.edu (Mark McCullough)\nSubject: Re: Gulf War (was Re: Death Penalty was Re: Political Atheists?)\nOrganization: University of Wisconsin, Madison -- Computer Sciences Dept.\nLines: 28\n\nIn article <930420.113512.1V3.rusnews.w165w@mantis.co.uk> mathew <mathew@mantis.co.uk> writes:\n>Don\'t sell the bastard arms and information in the first place. Ruthlessly\n>hunt down those who do. Especially if they\'re in positions of power.\n\nI looked back at this, and asked some questions of various people and\ngot the following information which I had claimed and you pooh-poohed.\nThe US has not sold Iraq any arms. Their navy is entirely made of\nF-USSR vessels. Their airforce (not including stuff captured from Kuwait\nwhich I am not as sure about), doesn\'t include any US equipment. Their\nmissiles are all non-US. Their tanks are almost all soviet, with about\n100 French tanks (older ones). The only US stuff in the Iraqi arsenal\nis a few M113s. Those were not sold to Iraq. Iraq captured them from\nother countries (like Kuwait). Information is hard to prove. You are\nclaiming that the US sold information? Prove it. \n\nNow, how did the US build up Iraq again? I just gave some fairly\nconclusive evidence that the US didn\'t sell arms to Iraq. Information\nis hard to prove, almost certainly if the US did sell information, then that\nfact is classified, and you can\'t prove it. If you can provide some\nuseful evidence that the US sold arms or valuable intelligence to Iraq,\nI am very interested, but not if you just make claims based on what\n"everyone knows".\n\n-- \n***************************************************************************\n* mccullou@whipple.cs.wisc.edu * Never program and drink beer at the same *\n* M^2 * time. It doesn\'t work. *\n***************************************************************************\n',
"From: kardank@ERE.UMontreal.CA (Kardan Kaveh)\nSubject: Re: Human head modeling software\nOrganization: Universite de Montreal\nLines: 19\n\nIn article <C65wBp.6K4@taurus.cs.nps.navy.mil> adaptive@cs.nps.navy.mil (zyda res acct) writes:\n>>Hi, there!\n>>I am interested in facial animation and want to implement some program about this area.\n>>But I don't have any 3-D information for the face.\n>>I am looking for some 3D images of face.\n>\n>Try getting the Cyberware_demo via ftp which contains 3D images of the\n>face.\n>\n\nWhat is the copyright status of this data? Are there restrictions regarding the\nuses they can be put to?\n\nKaveh\n\n\n-- \nKaveh Kardan\nkardank@ERE.UMontreal.CA\n",
'From: Alan.Olsen@p17.f40.n105.z1.fidonet.org (Alan Olsen)\nSubject: After 2000 years, can we say that Christian Morality is\nLines: 29\n\n\nMC> Theory of Creationism: MY theistic view of the theory of\nMC> creationism, (there are many others) is stated in Genesis\nMC> 1. In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.\n\nAnd which order of Creation do you accept?\tThe story of creation is one of the\nmany places in the Bible where the Story contradicts itself. The following is\nan example...\n\nGEN 1:25 And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle \nafter their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his\nkind: and God saw that it was good.\nGEN 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: \nand let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of\nthe air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every\ncreeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.\n\nGEN 2:18 And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be\nalone; I will make him an help meet for him.\nGEN 2:19 And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the \nfield, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he\nwould call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was\nthe name thereof.\n\nEven your Bible cannot agree on how things were created. Why should we\nbelieve in it?\n\n Alan\n\n',
"From: chorley@vms.ocom.okstate.edu\nSubject: Re: centi- and milli- pedes\nOrganization: OSU College of Osteopathic Medicine\nLines: 24\nNntp-Posting-Host: vms.ocom.okstate.edu\n\nIn article <35004@castle.ed.ac.uk>, gtclark@festival.ed.ac.uk (G T Clark) writes:\n> msnyder@nmt.edu (Rebecca Snyder) writes:\n> \n>>Does anyone know how posionous centipedes and millipedes are? If someone\n>>was bitten, how soon would medical treatment be needed, and what would\n>>be liable to happen to the person?\n> \n>>(Just for clarification - I have NOT been bitten by one of these, but my\n>>house seems to be infested, and I want to know 'just in case'.)\n> \n>>Rebecca\n> \n> \n> \tMillipedes, I understand, are vegetarian, and therefore almost\n> certainly will not bite and are not poisonous. Centipedes are\n> carnivorous, and although I don't have any absolute knowledge on this, I\n> would tend to think that you're in no danger from anything but a\n> concerted assault by several million of them.\n> \n> \t\t\tG.\nNot sure of this but I think some millipedes cause a toxic reaction (sting?\nSo I would not assume that they are not dangerous merely on the basis of \nvegetarianism, after all wasps are vegetarian too.\ndnc.\n",
'From: carlson@ab24.larc.nasa.gov (Ann Carlson)\nSubject: Re: Homosexuality issues in Christianity\nOrganization: NASA Langley Research Center, Hampton, VA USA\nLines: 29\n\nIn article <May.14.02.11.48.1993.25266@athos.rutgers.edu>, dps@nasa.kodak.com (Dan Schaertel,,,) writes:\n|> In article 28328@athos.rutgers.edu, carlson@ab24.larc.nasa.gov (Ann Carlson) writes:\n|> >Anyone who thinks being gay and Christianity are not compatible should \n|> >check out Dignity, Integrity, More Light Presbyterian churches, Affirmation,\n|> >MCC churches, etc. Meet some gay Christians, find out who they are, pray\n|> >with them, discuss scripture with them, and only *then* form your opinion.\n|> \n|> If you were to start your own religion, this would be fine. But there\n|> is no scriptural basis for your statement, \n\nHow about Acts 11: 15-18, 22-23\nor, I John 4:1-8\nwhich says to *try* the spirits to see if they be of God. \n\n|> in fact it really gets to the heart of the problem.\n|> You think you know more than scripture.\n|> Your faith is driven by feel goodism and not by the Word of God. \n\nHow do you know? When have you tried to learn anything about me?\n-- \n\n\n\n************************************************* \n*Dr. Ann B. Carlson (a.b.carlson@larc.nasa.gov) * O .\n*MS 366 * o _///_ //\n*NASA Langley Research Center * <`)= _<<\n*Hampton, VA 23681-0001 * \\\\\\ \\\\\n*************************************************\n',
"From: lilley@v5.cgu.mcc.ac.uk (Chris Lilley)\nSubject: Re: XV problems\nLines: 69\nReply-To: C.C.Lilley@mcc.ac.uk\nOrganization: Computer Graphics Unit, MCC\nDistribution: inet\n\n\nIn article <1rohjc$avt@cc.tut.fi>, jk87377@lehtori.cc.tut.fi (Kouhia Juhana) writes:\n\n>In article <1993Apr27.143603.9351@nessie.mcc.ac.uk>\n>C.C.Lilley@mcc.ac.uk writes:\n\n>> [moved on a bit]\n\n>I wrote something about making color modifications quickly\n>with 8bit quantized images and only at the saving the image to file\n>process we have to make the modifications to the 24bit image.\n>This makes sense, because the main use of XV is only viewing images.\n>\n>Doing many changes to image, we should keep all modifications\n>in a buffer; and then before making the operations to 24bit image,\n>we should simplify the operation list for unnecessary operations.\n>\nThink about what you are saying here. The 24 bit image is quantised down to 8\nbits so many 'similar' colours are mapped onto a single palette colour. This\ncolour gets modified in fairly arbitrary ways. You then want to apply these\nmodifications back to the 24 bit file, so you have to find which colours mapped\nto this one palette colour. Ok you could do this by copying the 24 bit file to a\n32 bit file and using the extra 8 bits to hold the index entry. \nHaving done this, you need to do something to them ... what, exactly?\n\nApply the difference in RGB between the original and modified palette entry to\neach colour in the group? This could generate colours with RGB outside the range\n0...255. It would also lead to discontinuities when different parts of a smooth\ncolour gradient mapped to several different palette entries.\n\nYou could interpolate from full modification to no modification depending how\nfar each colour was from the palette entry. However I suspect this would look\nrather odd.\n\nSo in summary, what I said in my previous posting still holds:\n\n>>How would you suggest doing colour editing on a 24 bit file? How\n>>would you group 'related' colours to edit them together? Only global\n>>changes could be done unless the software were very different and\n>>much more complicated.\n\n>>If you want to do colour editing on a 24 bit image, you need much\n>>more powerfull software - which is readily available commercially.\n\nIn other words, to edit a 24 bit file you need software built for the job.\nTacking mods onto xv is going to create more problems than it solves.\n\nAs to the other bits - you seemed to be claiming that there were bugs in XV. If\nthat was not what you meant, then:\n\n>(You propably misunderstood what I wrote as you have done in many\n>places so far.)\n\nYes, I probably did. I found that the collected digest format of your posting\nmade it a little difficult to understand precisely what your point was. Sorry\nif I misunderstood.\n\n>You also missed what is (were) wrong with XV. However, I did wrote it.\n\nYes again. What *is* (was?) wrong with xv?\n\n--\nChris Lilley\n----------------------------------------------------------------------------\nTechnical Author, ITTI Computer Graphics and Visualisation Training Project\nComputer Graphics Unit, Manchester Computing Centre, Oxford Road, \nManchester, UK. M13 9PL Internet: C.C.Lilley@mcc.ac.uk \nVoice: +44 (0)61 275 6045 Fax: +44 (0)61 275 6040 Janet: C.C.Lilley@uk.ac.mcc\n------------------------------------------------------------------------------\n",
'From: un034214@wvnvms.wvnet.edu\nSubject: NTSC data to RGB ? For Video Capture.\nOrganization: West Virginia Network for Educational Telecomputing\nLines: 11\n\nDoes anyone know how to decode the color information of a NTSC signal ?\n\nI need to convert this data to RGB for a Video Capture Utility I am \nwriting for use with an IBM M-MOTION Video adapter card...\n\nI need to know the how the V and U signals work in the color process.\n\nThanks in advance for any information or algorythms etc.\n\nLater-\nHammonck Net\n',
'From: kcarver@dante.nmsu.edu (Kenneth Carver)\nSubject: Isolation amplifiers for EEG/ECG *cheap*\nOrganization: New Mexico State University, Las Cruces, NM\nLines: 9\nDistribution: usa\nNNTP-Posting-Host: dante.nmsu.edu\n\nI have several isolation amplifier boards that are the ideal interface\nfor EEG and ECG. Isolation is essential for safety when connecting\nline-powered equipment to electrodes on the body. These boards\nincorporate the Burr-Brown 3656 isolation module that currently sells\nfor $133, plus other op amps to produce an overall voltage gain of\n350-400. They are like new and guaranteed good. $20 postpaid,\nschematic included. Please email me for more data.\n\n--Ken Carver\n',
'From: hudson@athena.cs.uga.edu (Paul Hudson Jr)\nSubject: Contradiction in Mormonism\nOrganization: University of Georgia, Athens\nLines: 9\n\nThere is a contradiction related to the moral issue of polygamy in the\nMormon writings. In the book in the book of Mormon called the book of \nJacob, Joseph Smith wrote that it was an abomination to God for \nDavid and Solomon to have many wives. Later, when Joseph Smith wrote\nthe Doctrines and Covenants (possibly when polygamy was becoming an\nissue in his personal life) he wrote that it was not an abomination for\nDavid to have many wives. How do Mormons answer this contradiction?\n\nLink Hudson.\n',
"From: whitsebd@nextwork.rose-hulman.edu (Bryan Whitsell)\nSubject: Re: Satan and TV\nReply-To: whitsebd@nextwork.rose-hulman.edu\nOrganization: News Service at Rose-Hulman\nLines: 14\n\nIn article <May.9.05.41.06.1993.27543@athos.rutgers.edu> \nsalaris@niblick.ecn.purdue.edu (Rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrabbits) writes:\n> MTV controls what bands are popular, no matter how bad they are. In fact, it is \n>better to be politically correct - like U2, Madonna - than to have any musical \n>talent. \n> Steven C. Salaris \n \nInteresting idea. \nRegular televeision seems to do this sort of thing too with politically correct \nshows.\n\n\nIn Christ's Love\nBryan \n",
"From: gt7122b@prism.gatech.edu (Randal Lee Nicholas Mandock)\nSubject: Re: homosexual issues in Christianity\nOrganization: Georgia Institute of Technology\nLines: 21\n\nIn response to alleged circular reasoning concerning the morality of \nhomosexuality, clh poses the following challenge:\n\n>In order to break the circle there's got to be some other\n>reason to think homosexuality is wrong.\n\nI answer,\n\nThe circle is simple to break. The Church teaches that homosexual\nbehavior is immoral. This teaching is raw, impassionate, unassailable\ndogma. That closes the argument for me.\n\n\n-- \nRandal Lee Nicholas Mandock \nCatechist\ngt7122b@prism.gatech.edu \n\n[Right. I understand that people have other reasons for not\naccepting homosexuality. The point I was making was that the\nspecific argument given wouldn't stand on its own. --clh]\n",
'From: chandra@bpa50.sbi.com (Chandra Prathuri @ Salomon Brothers Inc., NY )\nSubject: Graphics Library (GL) for HP and Sun\nKeywords: GL\nLines: 10\nNntp-Posting-Host: bpa50.sbi.com\n\nWe are looking for GL source code, which was developed by Silicon Graphics (SGI).\nWe would like to compile it on Sun and HP 9000/700s. If there is anyone already\nsupporting GL on HP and Sun, please respond.\nAlso please respond if anyone knows where the source code is available.\n\n\nThank you\n\nchandra@sbi.com\njon@sbi.com\n',
"From: dconway@hpldsla.sid.hp.com (Dan Conway)\nSubject: Re: Calculating regular polyhedra vertices\nOrganization: HP Scientific Instruments Division - Palo Alto, CA\nLines: 16\n\nI'd be interested in a copy of this code if you run across it.\n(Mail to the author bounced)\n > / hpldsla:comp.graphics / ricky@vnet.ibm.com (Rick Turner) / 12:53 am May 13,\n 1993 /\n > I fooled around with this problem a few years ago, and implemented a\n > simple method that ran on a PC.\n > was very simple - about 40 or 50 lines of code.\n . . .\n > Somewhere I still have it\n > and could dig it out if there was interest.\n >\n > Rick\n\n Dan Conway\n dconway@hpsid.sid.hp.com\n\n",
"From: V5113E@VM.TEMPLE.EDU (James Arbuckle)\nSubject: Drop your drawers and the doctor will see you\nOrganization: Temple University\nLines: 26\nNntp-Posting-Host: vm.temple.edu\n\nOrganization: Temple University\nX-Newsreader: NNR/VM S_1.3.2\n\nLast week I went to see a gastroenterologist. I had never met this\ndoctor before, and she did not know what I was there for. As soon as I\narrived, somebody showed me to an examining room and handed me a gown.\nThey told me to undress (from the waist down, to be exact) and wait for the\ndoctor. Is this the usual drill when you go to a doctor for the first\ntime? I don't have much experience going to doctors (knock on wood), but\non the couple of occasions when I've gone to a new doctor, I met him\nwith my clothes on. First, he introduced himself, asked what I was there\nfor and took a history, all before I undressed.\n \nAre patients usually expected to get naked before meeting a doctor\nfor the first time? Personally, I'd prefer to meet the doctor on\nsomething remotely resembling a condition of parity and to establish an\nidentity as a person who wears clothes before dropping my drawers. If\nnothing else, it minimizes the time that I have to spend in the self\nconscious, ill at ease and vulnerable condition of a person with a bare\nbottom talking to somebody who is fully clothed.\n \nDoes anybody besides me regard this get-naked-first-and-then-we-can-talk\nattitude as insensitive? Also, is it unusual?\n \n \nJames Arbuckle Email: v5113e@vm.temple.edu\n",
"From: menchett@dws015.unr.edu (Peter J Menchetti)\nSubject: Adobe Type Manager - what good is it??\nOrganization: University of Nevada, Reno Department of Computer Science\nLines: 9\n\nThe subject says it all. I bought Adobe Type Manager and find it completely\nuseless. I ftped some atm fonts and couldn't install them. What's the use?\nAre you supposed to be able to convert ATM fonts to Truetype?\n\nIf there's anyone out there who has this program and actually finds it \nuseful, enlighten me!\n\nPete\n\n",
"From: I3150101@dbstu1.rz.tu-bs.de (Benedikt Rosenau)\nSubject: Re: Yet more Rushdie [Re: ISLAMIC LAW]\nOrganization: Technical University Braunschweig, Germany\nLines: 37\n\nIn article <116551@bu.edu>\njaeger@buphy.bu.edu (Gregg Jaeger) writes:\n \n(Deletion)\n>>That's was the original answer. While it does not say that he has the head\n>>necessarily up its ass, it would be meaningless and pointless if it was not\n>>insinuated.\n>\n>\n>I don't see a header referring to Bob as the poster to whom I was\n>responding. I distinctly remember thinking I was responding to you\n>when I wrote this, in which case I would make no apologies. But\n>in the event that I _was_ in fact responding to Bob, I hereby\n>apologize to Bob for _insinuating_ such a thing. Sorry Bob.\n>On the other hand, it could be that Ben has his head so far up\n>his ass that he can't tell himself from Bob.\n>\n \nSorry, Gregg, it was no answer to a post of mine. And you are quite\nfond of using abusing language whenever you think your religion is\nmisrepresented. By the way, I have no trouble telling me apart from\nBob Beauchaine.\n \n \nI still wait for your answer to that the Quran allows you to beat your wife\ninto submission. You were quite upset about the claim that it was in it,\nto be more correct, you said it wasn't.\n \nI asked you about what your consequences were in case it would be in the\nQuran, but you have simply ceased to respond on that thread. Can it be\nthat you have found out in the meantime that it is the Holy Book?\n \nWhat are your consequences now? Was your being upset just a show? Do you\nsimple inherit your morals from a Book, ie is it suddenly ok now? Is it\ncorrect to say that the words of Muhammad reflect the primitive Machism\nof his society? Or have you spent your time with your new gained freedom?\n Benedikt\n",
'From: acooper@mac.cc.macalstr.edu (Turin Turambar, ME Department of Utter Misery)\nSubject: TEST: IGNORE\nOrganization: Macalester College\nLines: 11\n\nTEST-- \n\n\n\n================================================================================\n| Adam John Cooper\t|\t"Verily, often have I laughed at the weaklings |\n| (612) 696-7521\t|\t who thought themselves good simply because |\n| acooper@macalstr.edu\t|\t\t\tthey had no claws."\t |\n================================================================================\n| "Understand one another? I fear I am beyond your comprehension." --Gandalf |\n================================================================================\n',
'From: craig@hpuplca.nsr.hp.com (Craig Lamparter)\nSubject: 3DS INV NORMAL ARRAY ???\nOrganization: Hewlett-Packard Neely Golden Gate Area (Northern Calif.)\nLines: 12\n\n\n\nDoes anyone truely understand the "INVALID NORMAL ARRAY" error 3ds gives\nyou while rendering? It seems to present itself while rendering\ncomplicated images. I have circumvented this problem by rendering at\nthe command line, however it would be nice to render inside the editor.\nIs this a memory problem??? \n\nCraig....\n\n\n\n',
'From: niko@iastate.edu (Nikolaus E Schuessler)\nSubject: Re: I donwloaded a .bin file from a unix machine - now what?\nOrganization: Iowa State University, Ames, IA\nLines: 26\n\nIn article <matess.735934793@gsusgi1.gsu.edu> matess@gsusgi1.gsu.edu (Eliza Strickler) writes:\n>I just donwloaded a *.bin file from a unix machine which is\n>supposed to be converted to a MAC format. Does anyone know \n>what I need to do to this file to get it into any Dos, Mac\n>or Unix readable format. Someone mentioned fetch on the unix\n>machine - is this correct? Could someone explain the .bin\n>format a little?\n>\n\nThis is almost certainly a MacBinary file which is an encoded version\nof a mac file so the Resource fork and Data fork get preserved.\nYou need a program that converts this to a regular file. If this is a\nmacbinary file, you may have downloaded it in Text mode and is probably\ncorrupt (if you did). If you\'re using FTP to transfer it at any point make sure\nyou type "binary" first.\n\nIf you can open the file with a text editor and find\n(This file must be converted with Bin....\nat the top, it is a BinHex file and can be decoded with\nBinHex 4.0 (among other programs).\n\n-- \nNiko Schuessler \nProject Vincent Systems Manager email: niko@iastate.edu\nIowa State University Computation Center voice: (515) 294-1672\nAmes IA 50011 snail: 291 Durham \n',
'From: remcoha@htsa.aha.nl (Remco Hartog)\nSubject: RGB to HVS, and back\nOrganization: Hogeschool van Amsterdam, The Netherlands, E.E. & C.S. Dept.\nLines: 9\n\nI have a little question:\n\nI need to convert RGB-coded (Red-Green-Blue) colors into HVS-coded\n(Hue-Value-Saturnation) colors. Does anyone know which formulas to\nuse?\n\nThanks!\n\nR.W.Hartog remcoha@solist.htsa.aha.nl\n',
"From: bpeters@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Brenda Peters)\nSubject: Re: allergic reactions against laser printers??\nReply-To: bpeters@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Brenda Peters)\nOrganization: Carderock Division, NSWC, Bethesda, MD\nLines: 34\n\nIn sci.med, rdd@uts.ipp-garching.mpg.de (Reinhard Drube) writes:\n>Hello,\n>\n>does anyone know about allergic reactions caused by the developer/toner\n>of laser printers? What chemical stuff is involved?\n>\n>Thanks in advance!\n>\n>Reinhard\n>\n>email: rdd@ibma.ipp-garching.mpg.de\n\n\nDo I ever!!!!!! After 2 years of having health problems that had been\ncleared up w/allery shots, and not knowing why, I went and was re-tested.\nI actually did better than when I had been tested 2 years ago....\nThen putting 2 + 2 together, I realized that it all started back up\nwhen the laser printer came into the office. I kept track of the usage, and\non hi use days, I was worse. I got better over the weekends....\n\nThe laser printer is gone, I'm 100% better!!!..... Whether it is the toner\ndust or chemicals, I dont know (I am highly allergic to dust...), but\nit definitely was the laser printer....\n\n\n\n\t\t brenda peters\n\t\t carderock div, nswc, david taylor model basin\n\t\t bethesda, md 20084\n\n\t\t e-mail : cape@dtvms.dt.navy.mil\n\t\t\t\t or\n\n\t\t\t\t bpeters@oasys.dt.navy.mil\n",
'From: PETCH@gvg47.gvg.tek.com (Chuck)\nSubject: Daily Verse\nLines: 3\n\nbut whoever listens to me will live in safety and be at ease, without fear of\nharm." \nProverbs 1:33\n',
'Organization: Penn State University\nFrom: <RFM@psuvm.psu.edu>\nSubject: Re: Lithium questions, Doctor wants my 10 year old on it...\nDistribution: world\nLines: 20\n\nIn article <1rrv7i$7m7@dr-pepper.East.Sun.COM>, george@crayola.East.Sun.COM\n>\n>I would like to know anything you folks can tell me regarding Lithium.\n>\n>I have a 10 year old son that lives with my ex-wife. She has been having\n>difficulty with his behavior and has had him on Ritalin, Tofranil, and now\n>wants to try Lithuim at the local doctors suggestion. I would like to\n>know whatever is important that I should know. I worry about this sort of\n>thing and would like pros/cons regarding Lithium therapy.\n>\n>I have a booklet from the "Lithium Information Center" based at the\n>University of Wisconsin, but feel that it is pro-lithium and would be\n>interested in comments from the "not necessarily PRO" side of the fence.\n>\n>I am a concerned father and just wish to be well informed...\n>\nI get "antsy" about posts like this. Is the concern more for son or about ex-w\nife??? The standard impartial procedure is to ask for a second opinion\nabout son\'s condition.\nThen too, is son "acting out" games between divorced parents????\n',
'From: edm@twisto.compaq.com (Ed McCreary)\nSubject: Re: Age of Reason Was: Who has read Rushdie\'s\nIn-Reply-To: sandvik@newton.apple.com\'s message of Wed, 21 Apr 1993 06: 38:30 GMT\nOrganization: Compaq Computer Corp\n\t<EDM.93Apr20145436@gocart.twisto.compaq.com> <11867@vice.ICO.TEK.COM>\n\t<sandvik-200493233434@sandvik-kent.apple.com>\nLines: 35\n\n>>>>> On Wed, 21 Apr 1993 06:38:30 GMT, sandvik@newton.apple.com (Kent Sandvik) said:\nKS> This is the story of Kent, the archetype Finn, that lives in the \nKS> Bay Area, and tried to purchase Thomas Paine\'s "Age of Reason". This\nKS> man was driving around, to Staceys, to Books Inc, to "Well, Cleanlighted\nKS> Place", to Daltons, to various other places.\n\nKS> When he asked for this book, the well educated American book store\nKS> assistants in most placed asked him to check out the thriller section,\nKS> or then they said that his book has not been published yet, but they\nKS> should receive the book soon. In some places the assistants bluntly\nKS> said that they don\'t know of such an author, or that he is not \nKS> a well known living author, so they don\'t keep copies of his books.\n\nKS> Such is the life and times of America, 200+ years after the revolution.\n\nSigh, now I don\'t feel so bad. Searching for a copy in bookstores has\nbeen a habit of mine for at least two years now. I spend a *lot* of \ntime browsing through bookstores, new and and used, and I\'ve not once\nseen a copy. Now, I know, all I do is pick up a phone and order the\ndarned thing, but come on, this is America and he\'s one of the founding\nfathers. And no one carries his books? Sure, you can find "Common\nSense" but I think that\'s because it\'s required reading for most\ncolleges. \n\nI did find one hole-in-the-wall bookstore where the owner said that they \nusually carry one or two copies, but that they were currently out. I haven\'t\nbeen back since so I don\'t know if he was telling the truth or not.\n\nsigh...\n\n\n--\nEd McCreary ,__o\nedm@twisto.compaq.com _-\\_<, \n"If it were not for laughter, there would be no Tao." (*)/\'(*)\n',
'From: bockamp@Informatik.TU-Muenchen.DE (Florian Bockamp)\nSubject: Matrox PG-1281 CV Windows driver\nOriginator: bockamp@hphalle3a.informatik.tu-muenchen.de\nOrganization: Technische Universitaet Muenchen, Germany\nLines: 22\n\n\n\nHi!\n\nI need a Windows 3.1 driver for the Matrox PG-1281 CV\nSVGA card. \nAt the moment Windows runs only in the 640x480 mode.\nIf you have a driver for this card, please send it \nwith the OEMSETUP.INF to \n\nbockamp@Informatik.TU-Muenchen.DE\n\nThanks!\n\n-- \n+-----------------------------------------------------------------+\n| Florian Bockamp \'\'\' |\n| bockamp@informatik.tu-muenchen.de (o o) |\n+---------------------------------------------oOO--( )--OOo-------+\n| - |\n| "It\'s not a bug, it\'s an undocumented feature!" |\n+-----------------------------------------------------------------+\n',
'From: acooper@mac.cc.macalstr.edu (Turin Turambar, ME Department of Utter Misery)\nSubject: Re: Faith and Dogma\nOrganization: Macalester College\nLines: 123\n\nIn article <93Apr20.035421edt.47719@neat.cs.toronto.edu>, tgk@cs.toronto.edu (Todd Kelley) writes:\n> In light of what happened in Waco, I need to get something of my\n> chest.\n\nSadly understandable...\n\n> \n> Faith and dogma are dangerous. \n\nYes.\n\n> \n> Religion inherently encourages the implementation of faith and dogma, and\n> for that reason, I scorn religion.\n> \nTo be fair, you should really qualify this as semitic-western religions, but\nyou basically go ahead and do this later on anyway.\n\n> I have expressed this notion in the past. Some Christians debated\n> with me whether Christianity leaves any room for reasoning. I claimed\n> rationality is quelled out of Christianity by faith and dogma.\n\nAgain, this should really be evaluated at a personal level. For example, there\nwas only one Jesus (presumably), and he probably didn\'t say all that many\nthings, and yet (seemingly) billions and billions of Christian sects have\narisen. Perhaps there is one that is totally dedicated to rationalism and\nbelieves in Christ as in pantheism. It would seem to go against the Bible, but\nit is amazing what people come up with under the guise of "personal\ninterpretation".\n\n> A philosopher cannot be a Christian because a philosopher can change his mind,\n> whereas a Christian cannot, due to the nature of faith and dogma present\n> in any religion.\n\nThis is a good point. We have here the quintessential Christian: he sets up a\nsystem of values/beliefs for himself, which work very well, and every\nevent/experience is understandable and deablable within the framework of this\nsystem. However, we also have an individual who has the inability (at least\nnot without some difficulty) to change, which is important, because the problem\nwith such a system is the same as with any system: one cannot be open minded to\nthe point of "testing hypotheses" against the basic premise of the system\nwithout destroying whatever faith is invested therein, unless of course, all\nthe tests fail. In other words, the *fairer* way would be to test and evaluate\nmoralities without the bias/responsibility of losing/retaining a system.\n\n> \n> I claimed that a ``Christian philosopher\'\' is not a Christian,\n> but is a person whose beliefs at the moment correspond with those\n> of Christianity. Consider that a person visiting or guarding a prison\n> is not a prisoner, unless you define a prisoner simply to be someone\n> in a prison.\n> Can we define a prisoner to be someone who at the moment is in a prison?\n> Can we define a Christian to be someone who at the moment has Christian\n> beliefs? No, because if a person is free to go, he is not a prisoner.\n> Similarly, if a person is not constrained by faith and dogma, he is not\n> a Christian.\n\nInteresting, but again, when it seems to basically boil down to individual\nnuances (although not always, I will admit, and probably it is the\nmass-oriented divisions which are the most appalling), it becomes irrelevant,\nunfortunately.\n\n> \n> I admit it\'s a word game.\n> I\'m going by the dictionary definition of religion:\n> ``religion n. 1. concern over what exists beyond the visible world,\n> differentiated from philosophy in that it operates through faith\n> or intuition rather than reason, ...\'\'\n> --Webster\'s\n> \n> Now let\'s go beyond the word game. I don\'t claim that religion\n> causes genocide. I think that if all humans were atheist, there\n> would still be genocide. There will always be humans who don\'t think.\n> There will always be humans who don\'t ask themselves what is\n> the REAL difference between themselves and people with different\n> colored skin, or a different language, or different beliefs.\n> \n\nGranted\n\n> Religion is like the gun that doesn\'t kill anybody. Religion encourages\n> faith and dogma and although it doesn\'t directly condemn people,\n> it encourages the use of ``just because\'\' thinking. It is\n> ``just because\'\' thinking that kills people.\n> \n\nIn which case the people become the bullets, and the religion, as the gun,\nmerely offers them a way to more adequately do some harm with themselves, if I\nmay be so bold as to extend your similie?\n\n> Sure, religion has many good qualities. It encourages benevolence\n> and philanthropy. OK, so take out only the bad things: like faith,\n> dogma, and tradition. Put in the good things, like careful reasoning,\n> and science. The result is secular humanism. Wouldn\'t it\n> be nice if everyone were a secular humanist? To please the\n> supernaturalists, you might even leave God in there, but the secular\n> emphasis would cause the supernaturalists to start thinking, and\n> they too would realize that a belief in a god really doesn\'t put\n> anyone further ahead in understanding the universe (OK, I\'m just\n> poking fun at the supernaturalists :-).\n\nAlso understandable... ;)\n\n> \n> Of course, not all humans are capable of thought, and we\'d still\n> have genocide and maybe even some mass suicide...but not as much.\n> I\'m willing to bet on that.\n> \n> Todd\n> -- \n> Todd Kelley tgk@cs.toronto.edu\n> Department of Computer Science\n> University of Toronto\n-- \n\nbest regards,\n\n\n********************************************************************************\n* Adam John Cooper\t\t"Verily, often have I laughed at the weaklings *\n* (612) 696-7521\t\t who thought themselves good simply because *\n* acooper@macalstr.edu\t\t\t\tthey had no claws."\t *\n********************************************************************************\n',
'From: rhca80@melton.sps.mot.com (Henry Melton)\nSubject: Chromium as dietary suppliment for weight loss\nSummary: Wife needs Net.Wisdom\nOrganization: SPS\nLines: 12\nNntp-Posting-Host: 222.1.248.94\n\n\nMy wife has requested that I poll the Sages of Usenet to see what is\nknown about the use of chromium in weight-control diet suppliments.\nShe has seen multiple products advertising it and would like any kind\nreal information.\n\nMy first impulse was "Yuck! a metal!" but I have zero data on it.\n\nWhat do you know?\n\n-- \nHenry Melton rhca80@melton.sps.mot.com\n',
'From: dan@ingres.com (a Rose arose)\nSubject: Re: Legal definition of religion\nOrganization: Representing my own views here only\nLines: 26\n\ne_p@unl.edu (edgar pearlstein) writes:\n: \n: .\n: It\'s my understanding that the U.S. Supreme Court has never \n: given a legal definition of religion. This despite the many \n: cases involving religion that have come before the Court. \n: Can anyone verify or falsify this? \n: Has any state or other government tried to give a legal \n: definition of religion? \n\nAccording to the legal practices of today\'s America, I imagine the legal\ndefinition of religion, if defined, may resemble the following:\n\n\t"Any system of belief or practice to which people are committed\n\tfor the benefit of society which must, in the opinion of secular\n\tthought, be isolated from political and educational influence."\n\n\t"Should any system of belief or practice to which people are\n\tcommitted be harmful or void of any benefit to society in the\n\topinion of religious thought as defined in the previous paragraph,\n\tisolation of such from political and educational influence would\n\tconstitute unreasonable censorship and an unlawful violation of\n\tcivil rights."\n\nSomeday, perhaps they\'ll legalize benevolence :-)\n ^^^^^^^?\n',
"From: I3150101@dbstu1.rz.tu-bs.de (Benedikt Rosenau)\nSubject: Re: Poisoning the well (was: Islamic Genocide)\nOrganization: Technical University Braunschweig, Germany\nLines: 46\n\nIn article <1rbpq0$ibg@horus.ap.mchp.sni.de>\nfrank@D012S658.uucp (Frank O'Dwyer) writes:\n \n>\n>In article <16BBACBC3.I3150101@dbstu1.rz.tu-bs.de> I3150101@dbstu1.rz.tu-bs.de (Benedikt Rosenau) writes:\n>#By the way, that's why I consider you a theist:\n>\n>[7 points, consisting of rhetorical fallacy, unsupported claims, and\n>demonstrable falsehoods deleted]\n>\n \nNo wonder that we don't see any detail for this claim. It is good to\nremember that you have answered the statement that you are a theist\nby another correspondent with that you are not a member of a denomination.\nIt is either stupidity or an attempt at a trick answer. Not unlike the\nrest of your arguments.\n \n \n>Mr. Roseneau, I have little patience with people who tell me what I\n>believe, and who call me a liar when I disagree. I'm in a position\n>not only to know what it is that I believe, but to say so. I am an\n>agnostic.\n>\n \nI am extremely wary of the way you use words. Like in this case, there\nare broader definitions of gods used by persons who are considered by\nthemselves and others theists. I have pointed to that in my post. You\nuse one of them.\n \nYour use of definitions seems to rest on the assumption: because my\nmoral is objective/absolute or the other buzz words you are so fond\nof, everybody will know it, and there is no need to define it more\nexactly.\n \nAnd as a user has shown recently, the easiest way to dispell you is\nto ask you for definitions.\n \n \n>You are of course, free to speculate on my motives for objecting\n>to seeming irrational bigotry if you wish, but the flaws which I\n>point out in your arguments stand on their own merits.\n \nSince you are the only one seeing them, and many correspondents\npoint to the flaws in your reasoning respectively discussing, I\ncan't say I am impressed.\n Benedikt\n",
'From: dps@nasa.kodak.com (Dan Schaertel,,,)\nSubject: Re: Homosexuality issues in Christianity\nReply-To: dps@nasa.kodak.com\nOrganization: Eastman Kodak Company\nLines: 30\n\nIn article 15441@geneva.rutgers.edu, loisc@microsoft.com (Lois Christiansen) writes:\n\n|>You might visit some congregations of Christians, who happen to be homosexuals,\n|>that are spirit-filled believers, not MCC\'rs; before you go lumping us all\n|>together with Troy Perry. \n|>\n\nGee, I think there are some real criminals (robbers, muderers, drug\naddicts) who appear to be fun loving caring people too. So what\'s\nyour point? Is it OK. just because the people are nice?\n\n|>Isn\'t Satan having a hayday pitting Christian against Christian over any issue\n|>he can, especially homosexuality. Let\'s reach the homosexuals for Christ. \n|>Let\'s not try to change them, just need to bring them to Christ. If He\n|>doesn\'t want them to be gay, He can change that. If they are living a moral\n|>life, committed to someone of the same sex, and God is moving in their lives,\n|>who are we to tell them they have to change?\n|>\n\nI think the old saying " hate the sin and not the sinner" is\nappropriate here. Many who belive homosexuality is wrong probably\ndon\'t hate the people. I don\'t. I don\'t hate my kids when they do\nwrong either. But I tell them what is right, and if they lie or don\'t\nadmit they are wrong, or just don\'t make an effort to improve or\nrepent, they get punished. I think this is quite appropriate. You\nmay want to be careful about how you think satan is working here.\nMaybe he is trying to destroy our sense of right and wrong through\nfeel goodism. Maybe he is trying to convince you that you know more\nthan God. Kind of like the Adam and Eve story. Read it and compare\nit to today\'s mentality. You may be suprised.\n',
'From: eczcaw@mips.nott.ac.uk (A.Wainwright)\nSubject: Re: some thoughts.\nReply-To: eczcaw@mips.nott.ac.uk (A.Wainwright)\nOrganization: Nottingham University\nLines: 27\n\nIn article <C5rEKJ.49y@darkside.osrhe.uoknor.edu>, bil@okcforum.osrhe.edu (Bill Conner) writes:\n|> James Felder (spbach@lerc.nasa.gov) wrote:\n|> \n|> : Logic alert - argument from incredulity. Just because it is hard for you \n|> : to believe this doesn\'t mean that it isn\'t true. Liars can be very pursuasive\n|> : just look at Koresh that you yourself cite.\n|> \n|> This is whole basis of a great many here rejecting the Christian\n|> account of things. In the words of St. Madalyn Murrey-O\'Hair, "Face it\n|> folks, it\'s just silly ...". Why is it okay to disbelieve because of\n|> your incredulity if you admit that it\'s a fallacy?\n|> \n|> Bill\n\nI suppose for the same reason that you do not believe in all the gods. Why\nshould any be any different? I use the same arguments to dismiss Koresh\nas I do god. Tell me, then, why do you not believe that Koresh is the son\nof god? By logic it is equally possible that Koresh is Jesus reborn. \n\n\n\n-- \n+-------------------------+-----------------------------------------------+\n| Adda Wainwright | Does dim atal y llanw! 8o) |\n| eczcaw@mips.nott.ac.uk | 8o) Mae .sig \'ma ar werth! |\n+-------------------------+-----------------------------------------------+\n\n',
'From: lwv26@cas.org (Larry W. Virden)\nSubject: Looking for patches to xv to better support TIFF output\nReply-To: lvirden@cas.org (Larry W. Virden)\nOrganization: Nedriv Software and Shoe Shiners, Uninc.\nLines: 16\n\n\nRecently we have found TIFF manipulation packages which do not recognize\nTIFF files output by xv. This is due to a missing XRESOLUTION and YRESOLUTION\ntag which apparently is required (or at least believed to be required) for\nvalid TIFF. I have checked both xv 2.x and xv 3.x and neither of these\ndo indeed copy these tags.\n\nHas anyone out there hacked in the fixes for xv to support these tags?\nI have been told that I could find some code in tiff/tools/tiffcp.c, but\nthat directory is one of many of the tiff group not distributed with xv. I\nhope to obtain the original tiff src and look at it, but would prefer\nto find code already known to work in xv.\n-- \n:s \n:s Larry W. Virden INET: lvirden@cas.org\n:s Personal: 674 Falls Place, Reynoldsburg, OH 43068-1614\n',
'Subject: Re: Who has read Rushdie\'s _The Satanic Verses_?\nFrom: sham@cs.arizona.edu (Shamim Zvonko Mohamed)\nOrganization: U of Arizona CS Dept, Tucson\nLines: 66\n\nIn article <116547@bu.edu> jaeger@buphy.bu.edu (Gregg Jaeger) writes:\n>Yes. The Qur\'an discusses this point in several ways, some of\n>them quite directly. For example, it says that if God _were_\n>to appear them there would be no need for faith and belief as\n>the evidence would be definitive.\n\nAh! Excellent. So why doesn\'t she appear to me? I\'m a little weak in the\nblind faith department. (Besides, she doesn\'t even really need to appear:\nhow about, oh say, a little tip - something like "put your all on #3 in the\n7:30 at the Dog Races" ... perhaps in a dream or vision.)\n\n>>How do we know that\n>>Muhammed didn\'t just go out into the desert and smoke something? \n>\n>Would a person who was high write so well and with such consistency?\n\nI\'m afraid I don\'t know arabic; I have only read translations. I wouldn\'t\nknow it if it were well-written. (Consistent, though, is one thing the Quran\nis not.) And have *you* read it in arabic? Besides, some of my best\nwriting has been done under the influence of, shall we say, consciousness\naltering substances.\n\n>>And how\n>>do we know that the scribes he dictated the Quran to didn\'t screw up, or\n>>put in their own little verses? \n>\n>They\'d have to be very good to do so without destroying the beauty\n>and literary quality of text Arabic text. \n\nYes, so? How do we know they *weren\'t* very good? (Again, assuming that the\nQuran is beautfully written.)\n\n>>And why can Muhammed marry more than four women, \n>>when no other muslim is allowed to? \n>\n>Muhammad did not exceed the number _after_ the revelation regulating\n>the number of wives a man could marry, but before it.\n\nOk, I retract this point. (Although I might still say that once he knew, he\nshould have done something about it.)\n\n>>(Although I think the biggest\n>>insult to Islam is that the majority of its followers would want to\n>>suppress a book, sight unseen, on the say-so of some "holy" guy. Not to\n>>mention murder the author.)\n>\n>I agree. But is it really true that this is the case?\n\nI haven\'t interviewed all muslims about this; I would really like it if this\nwere false. But I can\'t take it on your say-so - what are your sources?\n\n>Another case of judging principles on the basis of those who claim\n>to follow them.\n\nWhat other basis do we have to judge a system? Especially when we can\'t get\na consistent picture of what Islam "really" is. Do I believe Khomeini? Do I\ngo by the Imam of the mosque in Mecca? Or perhaps the guy in New Jersey? Or\nperhaps you say I should go only by the Quran. Ok, whose translation? And\nwhat about things like "And wherever you find idolators, kill them"?\n\n-s\n--\n Shamim Mohamed / {uunet,noao,cmcl2..}!arizona!shamim / shamim@cs.arizona.edu\n "Take this cross and garlic; here\'s a Mezuzah if he\'s Jewish; a page of the\n Koran if he\'s a Muslim; and if he\'s a Zen Buddhist, you\'re on your own."\n Member of the League for Programming Freedom - write to lpf@uunet.uu.net\n',
'From: turpin@cs.utexas.edu (Russell Turpin)\nSubject: Re: Great Post! (was: Candida bloom...)\nOrganization: CS Dept, University of Texas at Austin\nLines: 31\nNNTP-Posting-Host: saltillo.cs.utexas.edu\n\n-*----\nIn article <noringC5yGw1.F1M@netcom.com> noring@netcom.com (Jon Noring) writes:\n> ... Of course, they are working on the theory that candida\n> overbloom with penetration into mucus membrane tissue with\n> associated "mild" inflammatory response can and does occur \n> in a large number of people. If you reject this "yeast \n> hypothesis", then I\'d guess you\'d view this research as one\n> more wasteful and quixotic endeavor. Stay tuned.\n\nI do not have enough medical expertise to have much of an opinion\none way or another on hidden candida infections. I can\nunderstand the skepticism of those who see this associated with\nvarious general kinds of symptoms, while there is a lack of solid\ndemonstration that this happens and causes such general symptoms.\n(To understand this skepticism, one only needs to know of past\nfailures that shared these characteristics with the notion of\nhidden candida infection. There have been quite a few, and the\nproponents of all thought that the skeptics were overly skeptical.)\n\nOn the other hand, I am happy to read that some people are\nsufficiently interested in this possibility, spurred by\nsuggestive clinical experience, to research it further. The\ndoubters may be surprised. (It has happened before.)\n\nI realize that admitting ignorance in the face of ignorance may\nnot endear me to those who are so sure they know one way or\nanother. (And, indeed, perhaps some of them do know -- I am the\none who is currently ignorant.) But I find this the most honest\nroute, and so I am happy with it.\n\nRussell\n',
'From: mcovingt@aisun3.ai.uga.edu (Michael Covington)\nSubject: Re: Legality of placebos?\nNntp-Posting-Host: aisun3.ai.uga.edu\nOrganization: AI Programs, University of Georgia, Athens\nLines: 18\n\nIn article <jfhC6BG8y.D2x@netcom.com> jfh@netcom.com (Jack Hamilton) writes:\n>\n>Actually, I don\'t know know anyone who has actually gotten a "sugar pill".\n[...]\n>\n>It\'s more common to prescribe a drug which is effective for something, just\n>not for what you have. Antibiotics for viral infections are the most\n>common such placebo. \n\nAnd presumably this is a matter of degree; it must be common to prescribe\na drug that has _some_ chance of giving _some_ benefit, but not a high\nprobability of it, and/or not a large benefit. Right?\n\n-- \n:- Michael A. Covington, Associate Research Scientist : *****\n:- Artificial Intelligence Programs mcovingt@ai.uga.edu : *********\n:- The University of Georgia phone 706 542-0358 : * * *\n:- Athens, Georgia 30602-7415 U.S.A. amateur radio N4TMI : ** *** ** <><\n',
'From: Rick_Granberry@pts.mot.com (Rick Granberry)\nSubject: Re: The doctrine of Original Sin\nReply-To: Rick_Granberry@pts.mot.com (Rick Granberry)\nLines: 40\n\nIn article <May.10.05.07.56.1993.3582@athos.rutgers.edu>, \nmuddmj@wkuvx1.bitnet writes:\n> > Therefore, until someone is capable of comprehending \n> > God\'s laws they are not accountable for living them. \n> > They are in the book of life and are not removed until \n> > they can make a conscious decision to disobey God. \n> > \n> > A IDLER \n> \n> If babies are not supposed to be baptised then why doesn\'t the Bible \n> ever say so. It never comes right and says "Only people that know \n> right from wrong or who are taught can be baptised." \n> What Christ did say was : \n> \n> "I solemly assure you, NO ONE can enter God\'s kingdom without \n> being born of water and Spirit ... Do not be surprised that I \n> tell you you must ALL be begotten from above." \n> \n> Could this be because everyone is born with original sin? \n> \n> Mike \n\nDo we attach some meaning of the Israelites entering "the promised land" to \nChristianity?\n\n I submit God did not hold the children responsible when the adults chose \nto follow the bad report of the 10 spies over Joshua and Caleb. This is \nrecorded for us in Deuteronomy 1:39 "Moreover your little ones, which ye said \nshould be a prey, and your children, which in that day had no knowledge \nbetween good and evil, they shall go in thither, and unto them will I give \nit, and they shall possess it."\n\n At least to me it seems there was/is an age, or point in maturity where \nthey were/are held responsible, and could not enter the "Promised Land", \nyounger ones were not held to the same "rules", at least not by God.\n\n\n| "Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him." |\n| "Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own conceit." |\n| (proverbs 26:4&5)\n',
"From: Lawrence Curcio <lc2b+@andrew.cmu.edu>\nSubject: Re: Use of haldol in elderly\nOrganization: Doctoral student, Public Policy and Management, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA\nLines: 34\nNNTP-Posting-Host: po2.andrew.cmu.edu\nIn-Reply-To: <westesC60xqF.59r@netcom.com>\n\nI've seen people in their forties and fifties become disoriented and\ndemented during hospital stays. In the examples I've seen, drugs were\ndefinitely involved. \n\nMy own father turned into a vegetable for a short time while in the\nhospital. He was fifty-three at the time, and he was on 21 separate\nmedications. The family protested, but the doctors were adamant, telling\nus that none of the drugs interact. They even took the attitude that, if\nhe was disoriented, they should put him on something else as well! With\nthe help of an MD friend of the family, we had all his medication\ndiscontinued. He had a seizure that night, and was put back on one drug.\nTwo days later, he was his old self again. I guess there aren't many\nmedical texts that address the subject of 21-way interactions.\n\nI don't mean this as a cheap shot at the medical profession. It is an\naspect of hospitals that is very frightening to me. Docs seem to believe\nthat, because they have close control of you, it's quite all right to\ntake your bodily equilibria into their own hands. That control reduces\nthe chance that the patient will make a mistake, but health care\nproviders can make mistakes too, and mistakes can be deadly under those\ncircumstances. \n\nI grant you that sometimes there's no choice. Nevertheless, I suggest\nyou procure a list of the drugs your grandmother is getting, and discuss\nit with an independent doc. Her problems may not be the effect of HALDOL\nat all. HALDOL may have been used validly, or it may have been\nprescribed because OTHER medication confused her, and because the\nhospital normally prescribes HALDOL for the confused elderly.\n\nJust my opinion,\n\n-Larry (obviously not a doc) C.\n\n \n",
"From: pwhite@empros.com (Peter White)\nSubject: Re: Question about hell\nLines: 70\n\nIn article <May.11.02.36.38.1993.28081@athos.rutgers.edu>, wytten@umn-cs.cs.umn.edu (Dale Wyttenbach) writes:\n|> What is the basis of the idea of hell being a place of eternal\n|> suffering? If it is Biblical, please reference.\n|> \n|> Here's my train of thought: If God is using the Earth to manufacture\n|> heavenly beings, then it is logical that there would be a certain\n|> yield, and a certain amount of waste. The yield goes to Heaven, and\n|> the waste is burned (destroyed) in Hell. Why is it necessary to\n|> punish the waste, rather than just destroy it?\n \nLuke 16 talks about the rich man and Lazarus. Matthew 25 talks about \nthe eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. Revelations\n20 and 21 reference this fire as the place where unbelievers are\nthrown. Matthew 18 talks about being thrown into the eternal fire and\nthe fire of hell. It seems quite clear that there is this place where\na fire burns forever. From the Revelations passages it is clear that\nthe devil and his angels will be tormented there forever. From the\nMatthew 25 passage it doesn't seem abundantly clear whether the\npunishment of unbelievers is everlasting in the sense of final or\nin the sense of continual. \n \nFrom Dale's question, I come away with the suggestion that hell,\nif it were short, might be an acceptable alternative to living\nforever with the Source of Life, Peace and Joy i.e. the \nunbeliever ceases to exist. Whereas, if punishment goes on\ncontinually, then one should have a greater motivation to avoid it.\nIt definately seems to me that hell is something we want to avoid\nregardless of its exact nature. \n\nThere seem to be two main questions in Dale's thought:\nWhat is God's main plan on earth?\nWhy is continual punishment a necessary part of hell as opposed\nto simply destroying completely those who refuse God?\n\nI believe that God's main plan is to have a genuine relationship\nwith people.\n\nThe nature of hell and the reasons for its nature seem a lot more\ndifficult to ascertain. It does seem clear that hell is something\nto avoid. At a minimum, hell is the state one is in when one has\nnothing to do with God.\n\nIn the Bible, I am not aware of any discussion about the specifics of\nhell beyond the general of hot, unpleasant and torment. For instance,\nit is not discussed how (if at all) the rich man can\ncontinually stay in the fire and still feel discomfort or pain or\nwhether there is some point at which the pain sensing ability is\nburned up. If you can forgive the graphicalness, if you throw a\nphysical body into a fire, assuming the person starts out alive,\nat some fairly quick point, the nerves are destroyed and pain is\nno longer sensed. It is not stated what occurs when at the judgement,\nthe unbelievers, (who are already physically dead) are cast into hell\ni.e. they no longer have a physical body so they can't feel physical\npain. What could be sensed continually is that those in hell are\nto be forever without God. \n \nThe Lazarus/rich man parable is told with the idea of having the listener\nthink in physical terms in order to get the point that some people\nwon't listen to God even after he rises from the dead. The point of\nthe parable is to reach the hard-hearted here who are not listening\nto the fact of the resurrection nor the Gospel about Jesus Christ.\nIt seems reasonable to also draw from the parable that hell is\nnot even remotely pleasant.\n-- \nPeter White\ndisclaimer: None of what is written necessarily reflects \n \t\t\ta view of my company.\n\tPhil I want to know Christ and the power of his\n\t3:10 \tresurrection and the fellowship of sharing in\n\tNIV\t\this sufferings, becoming like him in his death\t\n",
'From: bil@okcforum.osrhe.edu (Bill Conner)\nSubject: Re: After 2000 years, can we say that Christian Morality is\nNntp-Posting-Host: okcforum.osrhe.edu\nOrganization: Okcforum Unix Users Group\nX-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL9]\nLines: 23\n\nMike Cobb (cobb@alexia.lis.uiuc.edu) wrote:\n\n: Very true (length of time for discussions on creationism vs evolutionism). \n: Atheists and Christians have been debating since ?? and still debate with \n: unabated passion 8-).\n\nMike,\n\nI\'ve seen referrences to "Creation vs Evolution" several times in a.a\nand I have question. Is either point of view derived from direct\nobservation; can either be scientific? I wonder if the whole\ncontroversy is more concerned with the consequences of the "Truth"\nrather than the truth itself. \nBoth sides seem to hold to a philosophical outcome, and I can\'t help\nwondering which came first. As I\'ve pointed out elsewhere, my view of\nhuman nature makes me believe that there is no way of knowing\nanyhthing objectively - all knowledge is inherently subjective. So, in\nthe context of a.a, would you take a stand based on what you actually\nknow to be true or on what you want to be true and how can you tell\nthe difference?\n\nBill\n\n',
"From: bcash@crchh410.NoSubdomain.NoDomain (Brian Cash)\nSubject: Re: free moral agency\nNntp-Posting-Host: crchh410\nOrganization: BNR, Inc.\nLines: 17\n\nIn article <735295730.25282@minster.york.ac.uk>, cjhs@minster.york.ac.uk writes:\n|> : Are you saying that their was a physical Adam and Eve, and that all\n|> : humans are direct decendents of only these two human beings.? Then who\n|> : were Cain and Able's wives? Couldn't be their sisters, because A&E\n|> : didn't have daughters. Were they non-humans?\n|> \n|> Genesis 5:4\n|> \n|> and the days of Adam after he begat Seth were eight hundred years, and\n|> he begat sons and daughters:\n|> \n|> Felicitations -- Chris Ho-Stuart\n\nYeah, but these were not the wives. The wives came from Nod, apparently\na land being developed by another set of gods.\n\nBrian /-|-\\\n",
"From: lilley@v5.cgu.mcc.ac.uk (Chris Lilley)\nSubject: Re: 48-bit graphics...\nKeywords: 48-bit alpha channel IMAGE\nLines: 41\nReply-To: C.C.Lilley@mcc.ac.uk\nOrganization: Computer Graphics Unit, MCC\n\n\nIn article <1993Apr24.201117.26232@cs.wisc.edu>, oehler@yar.cs.wisc.edu (Wonko\nthe Sane) writes:\n\n>\tI was recently talking to a possible employer ( mine! :-) ) and he made a\n>reference to a 48-bit graphics computer/image processing system. I seem to\n>remember it being called IMAGE or something akin to that. Anyway, he claimed\n>it had 48-bit color + a 12-bit alpha channel. That's 60 bits of info--what\n>could that possibly be for? Specifically the 48-bit color? That's 280\n>trillion colors, many more than the human eye can resolve. Is this an\n>anti-aliasing thing? Or is this just some magic number to make it work better\n>with a certain processor.\n\nWell 48 bit colour *could* be for improved resolution but 16 bits per channel\nseems like a bit excessive. I have seen a paper that quoted 10 bits per channel\nof 12 bits for computational precision. More than that would seem to be wasted.\n\nPerhaps the frame buffer uses another colourspace which needs more bits to\nrepresent the full range - RGB is a cube so it is a compact encoding.\n\nMost likely however is that there are two separate 24 bit (8 bits per component)\nframe buffers. This set up, called double buffering, allows a complex 3d picture\nto be built up on one buffer while the other buffer (containing the previous\nframe) is displayed. This makes for smoother animation.\n\n>(sadly, I have access to none of them. Just a DEC 5000/25. Sigh.)\n\nWell hey if you want to brag about numbers, the 5000 range can take a PXG Turbo+\ncard with 96 bits per pixel. Full double buffering (Two 24 bit buffers), a 24\nbit Z buffer and an extra 24 bit buffer for off screen image storage.\n\nMind you the card costs more than your workstation.\n\n--\nChris Lilley\n----------------------------------------------------------------------------\nTechnical Author, ITTI Computer Graphics and Visualisation Training Project\nComputer Graphics Unit, Manchester Computing Centre, Oxford Road, \nManchester, UK. M13 9PL Internet: C.C.Lilley@mcc.ac.uk \nVoice: +44 (0)61 275 6045 Fax: +44 (0)61 275 6040 Janet: C.C.Lilley@uk.ac.mcc\n------------------------------------------------------------------------------\n",
"Subject: PBM+ 10dec91 when's'the'new'version?\nFrom: j3gum@vax1.mankato.msus.edu\nOrganization: Mankato State University\nLines: 5\n\nDoes anyone know if the fabled /new/ version of PBM+ will be out soon. As\nfar as I know the /current/ version is 10dec91.\nJeff P. are you out there ? ?? ?\n\nJeffrey E. Hundstad\n",
'From: livesey@solntze.wpd.sgi.com (Jon Livesey)\nSubject: Re: "Cruel" (was Re: <Political Atheists?)\nOrganization: sgi\nLines: 23\nDistribution: world\nNNTP-Posting-Host: solntze.wpd.sgi.com\n\nIn article <1993Apr17.041535.7472@bmerh85.bnr.ca>, dgraham@bmers30.bnr.ca (Douglas Graham) writes:\n|> In article <1qnedm$a91@fido.asd.sgi.com> livesey@solntze.wpd.sgi.com (Jon Livesey) writes:\n|> >In article <1ql8mdINN674@gap.caltech.edu>, keith@cco.caltech.edu (Keith Allan Schneider) writes:\n|> >|> They spent quite a bit of time on the wording of the Constitution. \n|> >\n|> >I realise that this is widely held belief in America, but in fact\n|> >the clause on cruel and unusual punishments, like a lot of the\n|> >rest, was lifted from the English Bill of Rights of 1689.\n|> \n|> According to Jerry Mander\'s _In the Absence of the Sacred_ (good\n|> book, BTW), the Great Binding Law of the Iroquois Confederacy\n|> also played a significant role as a model for the U.S. Constitution.\n|> Furthermore, apparently Marx and Engels were strongly influenced\n|> by a study of Iroquois society, using it as the prime example of\n|> a successful, classless, egalitarian, noncoercive society. Mander\n|> goes on to say that both the U.S. and the U.S.S.R. would do well\n|> to study the original document, figure out where each went wrong,\n|> and try to get it right next time.\n\nThat\'s fascinating. I heard that the Chinese, rather than\nthe Italians, invented pasta.\n\njon.\n',
'From: crackle!dabbott@munnari.oz.au (NAME)\nSubject: "Why I am not Bertrand Russell" (2nd request)\nReply-To: dabbott@augean.eleceng.adelaide.edu.au (Derek Abbott)\nOrganization: Electrical & Electronic Eng., University of Adelaide\nLines: 4\n\nCould the guy who wrote the article "Why I am not Bertrand Russell"\nresend me a copy?\n\nSorry, I accidently deleted my copy and forgot your name.\n',
'From: kax@cs.nott.ac.uk (Kevin Anthoney)\nSubject: Re: Consciousness part II - Kev Strikes Back!\nOrganization: Nottingham University\nLines: 102\n\nIn article <1993Apr17.045559.12900@ousrvr.oulu.fi>\nkempmp@phoenix.oulu.fi (Petri Pihko) writes:\n\n>Kevin Anthoney (kax@cs.nott.ac.uk) wrote:\n>\n>: This post is probably either brilliant or insane. Do let me know\n>: which... :-)\n>\n>A brilliant example of using the introspective objection against \n>materialist theories of consciousness.\n\nDiplomatic :-)\n\nI realize I\'m fighting Occam\'s razor in this argument, so I\'ll try to\nexplain why I feel a mind is necessary. \n\nFirstly, I\'m not impressed with the ability of algorithms. They\'re\ngreat at solving problems once the method has been worked out, but not\nat working out the method itself.\n\nAs a specific example, I like to solve numerical crosswords (not the\nsimple do-the-sums-and-insert-the-answers type, the hard ones.) To do\nthese with any efficiency, you need to figure out a variety of tricks.\nNow, I know that you can program a computer to do these puzzles, but\nin doing so you have to work out the tricks _yourself_, and program\nthem into the computer. You can, of course, \'obfuscate\' the trick, and\nwrite the program so that it is uncovered, but as far as I can see,\nthe trick still has to be there in some form to be discovered. Does\nthis mean that all the ideas we will ever have are already\npre-programmed into our brains? This is somewhat unlikely, given that\nour brains ultimately are encoded in 46 chromosomes worth of genetic\nmaterial, much of which isn\'t used.\n\nOne way around this is to bring the environment into the equation, but\n(again, as far as I can see) this still has an air of \'if you see\nobject X, then perform action Y,\' and we don\'t seem to get anywhere.\nThe algorithm has to anticipate what it might see, and what\nconclusions to draw from it\'s experience.\n\nThe other problem with algorithms is their instability. Not many\nalgorithms survive if you take out a large portion of their code, yet\npeople survive strokes without going completely haywire (there are\nside-effects, but patients still seem remarkably stable.) Also,\nneurons in perfectly healthy people are dying at an alarming rate -\ncan an algorithm survive if I randomly corrupt various bits of it\'s\ncode?\n\nThe next problem is the sticky question of "What is colour?" (replace\n\'colour\' with the sensation of your choice.) Presumably, the\nmaterialist viewpoint is that it\'s the product of some kind of\nchemical reaction. The usual products of such a reaction are energy +\ndifferent chemicals. Is colour a mixture of these? If this is so, a\ncomputer won\'t see colour, because the chemistry is different. Does an\nalgorithm that sees colour have a selective advantage over an\nequivalent that doesn\'t? It shouldn\'t, because the outputs of each\nalgorithm ought to be the same in equivalent circumstances. So why do\nwe see colour?\n\n\n>\n>However, such a view is actually a nonsolution. How should minds be\n>able to act as observers, feel pain and pleasure and issue\n>commands any better than the brain? Moreover, how do the interactions\n>occur?\n\nA bit of idle speculation...\n\nIf I remember correctly, quantum mechanics consists of a wavefunction,\nwith two processes acting on it. The first process has been called\n\'Unitary Evolution\' (or \'U\'), is governed by Schroedinger\'s equation\nand is well known. The second process, called various things such as\n\'collapse of the wavefunction\' or \'state vector reduction\' (or \'R\'),\nand is more mysterious. It is usually said to occur when a\n\'measurement\' takes place, although nobody seems to know precisely\nwhen that occurs. When it does occur, the effect of R is to abruptly\nchange the wavefunction.\n\nI envisage R as an interaction between the wavefunction and \'something\nelse,\' which I shall imaginitively call \'part X.\' It seems reasonable\nto assume that _something_ causes R, although that something might be\nthe wavefunction itself (in which case, part X is simply the\nwavefunction. Note, though, that we\'d need more than U to explain R.)\n\nAnyway, I\'m speculating that minds would be in part X. There seems to\nbe some link between consciousness and R, in that we never see linear\nsuperpositions of anything, although there are alternative\nexplainations for this. I\'ve no idea how a brain is supposed to access\npart X, but since this is only speculation, that won\'t matter too\nmuch :-) My main point is that there might be a place for minds in\nphysics.\n\nI\'ll go back to my nice padded cell now, if that\'s OK with you :-)\n\n>\n>\n>Petri\n\n-- \n------------------------------------------------------------------------\nKevin Anthoney kax@cs.nott.ac.uk\n Don\'t believe anything you read in .sig files.\n------------------------------------------------------------------------\n',
"From: aldridge@netcom.com (Jacquelin Aldridge)\nSubject: Sweet's Syndrome ?\nOrganization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)\nLines: 28\n\n\n\tMy brother's affine has recently been diagnosed with Sweet's\nsyndrome. Also called steroid resistant Sweet's syndrome.\n\n\tThis syndrome started after she had had Iodine 131 treatment for\nhyperthyroidism. She'd been reluctant to have treatment for the\nhyperthyroidism for many years and apparently started to show exaustion\nfrom it. \n\n\tI understand that she may still be testing high in thyroid level\nbut she's isn't being treated by an endocrinologist. Her previous\nendocrinologist bowed out when she entered the hospital. She entered the\nhospital because of the Sweet's syndrome symptoms (skin lesions).\n\nI've looked through the last two years of Medline and didn't find an\nabstract mentioning a correlation between thyroid and Sweets. . \n\nI checked a handbook which said that Sweet's was associated with leukemia.\n\nI'd like a reccomndation for experts who are in New York City or who travel\nto New York City. For the sweets and perhaps for the endocrinology.\n\nAny information that might help. Apparently there hasn't been much\nimprovement in her condition over the past several months. \n\n-Jackie-\n\n \n",
"From: grady@netcom.com (1016/2EF221)\nSubject: Re: Where did the hacker ethic go?\nOrganization: capriccioso\nX-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]\nLines: 10\n\nWhere did the hacker ethic go?\n\nWe hackers of the 70's and 80' are now comfortably employed\nand supporting families. The next generation takes\nthe radical lead now. Don't look for radicalism among us\nold ones; we're gone...\n\n-- \ngrady@netcom.com 2EF221 / 15 E2 AD D3 D1 C6 F3 FC 58 AC F7 3D 4F 01 1E 2F\n\n",
'From: decay@cbnewsj.cb.att.com (dean.kaflowitz)\nSubject: Re: some thoughts.\nOrganization: AT&T\nDistribution: na\nLines: 10\n\nIn article <1993Apr26.000410.18114@daffy.cs.wisc.edu>, mccullou@snake2.cs.wisc.edu (Mark McCullough) writes:\n> In article <C62B52.LKz@blaze.cs.jhu.edu> arromdee@jyusenkyou.cs.jhu.edu (Ken Arromdee) writes:\n> >I can think of a lot more agonizing ways to get killed. Fatal cancer, for\n> >instance.\n> >\n> >Anyone else have some more? Maybe we can make a list.\n> How about dying of a blood clot in a _very_ bad place.\n\nKidney stones with complete blockage.\n\n',
'From: ptrei@bistromath.mitre.org (Peter Trei)\nSubject: Re: Athiests and Hell\nOrganization: The MITRE Corporation\nLines: 106\n\nIn article <May.13.02.27.26.1993.1411@geneva.rutgers.edu> REXLEX@fnal.fnal.gov writes:\n>In article <May.11.02.36.29.1993.28068@athos.rutgers.edu>\n>ptrei@bistromath.mitre.org (Peter Trei) writes:\n>>In article <May.9.05.38.49.1993.27375@athos.rutgers.edu> REXLEX@fnal.fnal.gov\n>writes:\n>>[much deleted] \n>>>point today might be the Masons. (Just a note, that they too worshipped \n>>>Osiris in Egypt...)\n>>[much deleted] \n>>\n>> It bugs me when I see this kind of nonsense.\n>>\n>> First, there is no reasonable evidence linking Masonry to ancient\n>>Egypt, or even that it existed prior to the late 14th century (and\n>>there\'s nothing definitive before the 17th).\n>\n[I\'m going to cut "Rex"\'s ramblings down a bit.]\n\n[...]\n>You must not be past your 20th level. You should read Wilkinson\'s\n>Egyptians and how he shows this Egyptian religion paralleling his own British\n>Masonry. There is a man here at this laboratory who is a 33 degree black\n>mason. I\'ve talked with him, [...]\n>There is the public side with motorcyle mania and\n>childrens hospitals and then there is the priviate side that only the highest\n>degree mason every learns of.\n\n Rex, there are literally hundreds of thousands of 32nd degree\nMasons in this country, and thousands of 33rds. If nasty stuff was\nreally going on, don\'t you think you\'d have more than a couple of\ndisgruntled members "exposing" it? Heck, if what you say is true, then\nRev. Norman Vincent Peale is an Osiris worshiper.\n \n[...\nLong quote from someone named Hislop (source not given) deleted. I\'m\nattempting to extract from it the relevent points: \n\n * Osiris is actually Nimrod, a Babylonian Deity. \n\n * "It is admitted that the secret system of Free Masonry was originally\n founded on the Mysteries of the Egyptian Isis, the goddess-mother, or\n wife of Osiris."\n\n * The Babylonian Nimrod and Osiris are both connected with the building\n trade, ie, with Masonry.\n\n * Nimrod, as the son of Cush, was a negro. [isn\'t this refering to a \n Biblical Nimrod, rather than the Babylonian god?]\n\n * ...there was a tradition in Egypt, recorded by Plutarch, that \'Osiris\n was black\'.\n...]\n\n There is a long tradition in Masonry of claiming ancient lineage\nfor the order, on the flimsiest of grounds. This dates right back to\nthe Constitutions of 1738, which cite Adam as the first Mason. I\'ve\nseen other claims which place Masonry among the Romans, Greeks, and\nEgyptians, and Atlanteans. I even have a book which claims to prove\nthat Stonehenge was originally a Masonic temple. \n\n Claims prove nothing. Where\'s the beef, Rex?\n\n[...Claims ex-Mason showed him leopard skin he wore in lodge]\n> Any representation of Osiris usually show the wearing of some leopard.\n\n I\'d have to check this. The tomb paintings I remember don\'t show\nthis.\n\n> It is interesting that the Druids of Britian also show, or should I say\n> hide, this representation. They, however, worshipped the "spotted cow".\n\n Can you give ancient citations for this? The druids were suppressed\nover 2000 years ago. What\'s your point?\n\n This whole "leopard skin" business sounds bizarre. I have not yet\ngone through the Scottish Rite (which contains all of those "higher\ndegrees" anti-Masons get so excited about, and which was invented in\nthe 1750\'s), but I know enough people who have (and who are good\nChristians), that I reject your claim.\n\n>I\'ll stand by my statements. Masonry is of the "mystery" religions\n>that all find their source in Babylon, the great harlot. Sorry Peter,\n>I do not mean to be a "cold slap to the face" but there is to much\n\nNot so much a \'slap in the face\' as \'a weary feeling of deja vu\'. I\'m\ngoing through a very similar argument over on soc.culture.african.american.\n\n>evidence to the contrary that Masonry doesn\'t find its origins in\n>Egypt. Of the Masons I have personally talked to, all refered to\n>Egypt as their origin. \n\n Why don\'t you try reading some serious books on Masonic history, such\nas Hamill\'s "The Craft"?\n\n>Why are you now separating yourself from this which not many years ago,\n>was freely admitted?\n\n Because we got honest. If you can come up with actual evidence that\nMasonry existed prior to 1390, I\'d be VERY impressed (actually,\nanything earlier than 1630 would be pretty good.)\n\n>-Rex\n\t\t\t\t\t\tPeter Trei\n\t\t\t\t\t\tptrei@mitre.org\n\nDisclaimer: I do not speak for my employer.\n',
'From: madhaus@netcom.com (Maddi Hausmann)\nSubject: Re: some thoughts.\nOrganization: Society for Putting Things on Top of Other Things\nLines: 23\n\nhealta@saturn.wwc.edu (Tammy R Healy) writes: >\n\n>Tammy "See, Maddi, I trimmed it!" Healy\n\nWell, you\'re going to have to practice, but you\'re getting\nthe hang of it. Soon we\'re going to have to give you a new\nnickname. Try these on for size:\n\nTammy "Lucky Seven" Healy\nTammy "Pass the falafel" Healy\nTammy "R Us" Healy\nTammy "Learning by Doing" Healy\n\n\n\nMaddi "Never a Useful Post" Hausmann\n\n-- \nMaddi Hausmann madhaus@netcom.com\nCentigram Communications Corp San Jose California 408/428-3553\n\nKids, please don\'t try this at home. Remember, I post professionally.\n\n',
"From: c557652@mizzou1.missouri.edu (Robert Woodward)\nSubject: gif viewer\nLines: 7\nNntp-Posting-Host: 128.206.12.104\nOrganization: Physiology Dept, University of Missouri\nLines: 7\n\nI am having trouble viewing GIF files on my system. Large sections\ndon't show up. I have tried VPIC and PICEM - both do the same. I am\nrunning a Gateway 486/33C with a Speedstar Plus VGA card and an\nNEC Multisync 4Ds 16 inch monitor. Any suggestions? I don't know if \nRobert Woodward\nDepartment of Physiology, University of Missouri, Columbia, MO 65212\ne-mail: c557652@mizzou1.missouri.edu\n",
'From: ch981@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Tony Alicea)\nSubject: Southern Baptist Convention & Freemasonry\nOrganization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)\nLines: 51\nReply-To: ch981@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Tony Alicea)\nNNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu\n\n\n With the Southern Baptist Convention convening this June to consider\nthe charges that Freemasonry is incompatible with christianity, I thought\nthe following quotes by Mr. James Holly, the Anti-Masonic Flag Carrier,\nwould amuse you all...\n\n The following passages are exact quotes from "The Southern \nBaptist Convention and Freemasonry" by James L. Holly, M.D., President\nof Mission and Ministry To Men, Inc., 550 N 10th St., Beaumont, TX \n77706. \n \n The inside cover of the book states: "Mission & Ministry to Men, \nInc. hereby grants permission for the reproduction of part or all of \nthis booklet with two provisions: one, the material is not changed and\ntwo, the source is identified." I have followed these provisions. \n \n "Freemasonry is one of the allies of the Devil" Page iv. \n \n "The issue here is not moderate or conservative, the issue is God\nand the Devil" Page vi." \n \n "It is worthwhile to remember that the formulators of public \nschool education in America were Freemasons" Page 29. \n \n "Jesus Christ never commanded toleration as a motive for His \ndisciples, and toleration is the antithesis of the Christian message."\nPage 30. \n \n "The central dynamic of the Freemason drive for world unity \nthrough fraternity, liberty and equality is toleration. This is seen \nin the writings of the \'great\' writers of Freemasonry". Page 31. \n \n "He [Jesus Christ] established the most sectarian of all possible \nfaiths." Page 37. \n \n "For narrowness and sectarianism, there is no equal to the Lord \nJesus Christ". Page 40. \n \n "What seems so right in the interest of toleration and its \ncousins-liberty, equality and fraternity-is actually one of the \nsubtlest lies of the \'father of lies.\'" Page 40. \n \n "The Southern Baptist Convention has many churches which were \nfounded in the Lodge and which have corner stones dedicated by the \nLodge. Each of these churches should hold public ceremonies of \nrepentance and of praying the blood and the Name of the Lord Jesus \nChrist over the church and renouncing the oaths taken at the \ndedication of the church and/or building." Page 53-54. \n \n\nTony \n',
'From: perry@dsinc.com (Jim Perry)\nSubject: Re: Is Morality Constant (was Re: Biblical Rape)\nOrganization: Decision Support Inc.\nLines: 99\nNNTP-Posting-Host: bozo.dsinc.com\n\nMy last response in this thread fell into a bit-bucket and vanished\n(though appearing locally). I\'ll repost it, since I always feel\nslighted when someone appears to ignore one of my postings in a\nconversational thread, I don\'t want Rob to think I\'m doing so. Since\nthis is now dated, however, don\'t feel compelled to respond...\n\nIn article <1993Apr08.174942.45124@watson.ibm.com> strom@Watson.Ibm.Com (Rob Strom) writes:\n>I was making two separate points, both of which attack\n>"face value" Bible interpretation:\n>\n>(1) To judge the Bible\'s value today, you judge it based on\n> the way it is used today. That is, what do commentators\n> actually say, what do rabbis teach, etc.\n\nI suspect you meant this in context of the Jewish tradition you have\nbeen referring to; one problem with a highly-interpreted tradition\nlike this is what happens when a schism occurs, and over time certain\nlarge and influential branches of the heretical group come to favor\nexactly a "face value" interpretation...\n\n>(2) To judge the Bible\'s value when originally written,\n> you (a) read it in the context of its time (not\n> with today\'s assumptions), and (b) compare it to\n> the practices of surrounding people.\n\nWhile the context of the time is important, value judgments must\nultimately be according to current understanding, or at least to some\nbase standard (relative stability/success of a society, e.g.). This\nis obviously true in comparing it to practices of surrounding people,\nfor instance: according to the Bible, the surrounding people were\nimmoral savages with repulsive and inhuman habits. We need to look\nrather at what those peoples were *really* like. For instance, in\nwhat way is it better to worship a single god whose presence is\nsymbolically strongest in a tent or temple over multiple gods some of\nwhose presence is symbolically represented in a statue? By the\nBible\'s own terms idolatry is inherently evil, but I see no evidence\nthat the followers of the various other religions of the area and time\nwere particularly bad people, relative to the people in the Bible.\n\n>[...scissors and cloth...] Now in the past, our ancestors\n>did cut cloth with scissors, but they at least knew that\n>their inhumane neighbors cut it with their bare teeth,\n>so this was a relatively enlightened step forward from\n>their earlier barbarism, and made the transition to\n>modern civilized paper-cutting that much easier."\n\nSounds good, but it presupposes teeth-rending neighbors, which I see\nno support for. One can argue that post-facto assertion of inhumane\nneighbors can be used to make moral points, but that doesn\'t mean that\nthe actual neighbors really were inhuman. More to the point, such\ndehumanization of the people across the river or over the mountain, or\neven of a different people dwelling among us, is all too common.\n\n>|> That complex\n>|> and benign moral traditions have evolved based on particular mythic\n>|> interpretations of that history is interesting, but I still don\'t\n>|> think it fair to take that long tradition of interpretation and use it\n>|> to attack condemnation of the original history.\n\nNote that I\'m speaking of historical interpretation here, for instance\nclaiming that Hammurabi\'s "an eye for an eye" was primitive brutal\nretribution, while Moses\' version was an enlightened benign fine\n(because the tradition has since interpreted the phrase that way). As\nof 3000 years ago or so, they probably both meant the same thing.\n\n>To be sure, I\'m arguing from a parochial perspective.\n>I belong to this tiny tribe which has struggled against\n>overwhelming odds for survival as a distinct tribe,\n>and this book is the book of my tribe. The book commands\n>us to dedicate ourselves to study, to improve the\n>world, and to set an example as "a light to the nations".\n>\n>We\'ve revered the book, and I think we\'ve been successful:\n>as scientists, as artists and musicians, as leaders\n>in important humanitarian causes. It\'s hard for me to\n>separate the success of my people from the virtue\n>of our book. You\'d have to argue that we\'d have\n>done significantly better with a different book or with no book,\n>or that another tribe with a different book or\n>with no book has done significantly better.\n\nI don\'t belittle the accomplishments, particularly the intellectual\nones, of the Jewish people. I have given up on trying to think by\nanalogy, since I don\'t know of any other \'tribe\' that is at all\nsimilar (the closest I can think of are the Romany, but I don\'t know\nenough about them to make a meaningful comparison). I think a\ntradition of reflective study, of flexible rather than dogmatic\ninterpretation, is a good thing. I think that with such an attitude a\ncase could be made that you could have done as well starting with a\n1943 Captain America comic (or whatever the Babylonian equivalent\nwould have been).\n-- \nJim Perry perry@dsinc.com Decision Support, Inc., Matthews NC\nThese are my opinions. For a nominal fee, they can be yours.\n\n\n-- \nJim Perry perry@dsinc.com Decision Support, Inc., Matthews NC\nThese are my opinions. For a nominal fee, they can be yours.\n',
"From: halat@pooh.bears (Jim Halat)\nSubject: Re: Faith and Dogma\nReply-To: halat@pooh.bears (Jim Halat)\nLines: 33\n\nIn article <1r1mr8$eov@aurora.engr.LaTech.edu>, ray@engr.LaTech.edu (Bill Ray) writes:\n>Todd Kelley (tgk@cs.toronto.edu) wrote:\n>: Faith and dogma are dangerous. \n>\n>Faith and dogma are inevitable. Christians merely understand and admit\n>to the fact. Give me your proof that no God exists, or that He does. \n>Whichever position you take, you are forced to do it on faith. It does\n>no good to say you take no position, for to show no interest in the \n>existence of God is to assume He does not exist.\n>\n\n[...stuff deleted...]\n\nAs many posters have said in as many posts lately, this is just\nnot true. For to show no interest in the existence of god takes no\nfaith at all. You make the presumption that the _knowledge_ of the \n_possibility_ of something is enough to require faith to render \nthat possibilty of no interest. It is a very different thing to say\nthat you don't believe something than it is to say that you don't\nhave sufficent reason to believe something is even interesting to \nthink about. It's not either or. Sometimes is just something else\nmore interesting that occupies your mind. \n\nI agree that faith and dogma are inevitable, but not necessarily\napplied to god and religion. It takes both faith and dogma to\nexpect the sun to come up every morning, but there is overwhelming\nreason every single day, day in and day out, for _everyone_ to put \nhis faith and dogma there. Not so with the christian religion.\n\n-- \n jim halat halat@bear.com \nbear-stearns --whatever doesn't kill you will only serve to annoy you--\n nyc i speak only for myself\n",
'From: REXLEX@fnal.gov\nSubject: Re: Incarnation...Two minds of Christ..\nOrganization: FNAL/AD/Net\nLines: 99\n\nIn article <May.13.02.30.34.1993.1541@geneva.rutgers.edu>\ntedr@athena.cs.uga.edu (Ted Kalivoda) writes:\n>Nabil wrote:\n>>5. Both families agree that He who wills and acts is always the one\nHypostasis\n>>of the Logos Incarnate.\n>\n>Marhaba Nabil,\n>\n>If we posit two minds in Christ, the mind of the logos and the mind of the\n>human Jesus, then we must admit two wills. A mind is not a mind without a\n>will. I know this has been dealt with in past Church prnouncements, but there\n>is a philosophical problem here that should examined.\n>\n>T. V. Morris argued that the Incarnation can be seen like this:\n>\n> _____________\t\t\n> (Mind of Logos)\n> (\t _______ )\n> (\t(\t) )\tHere, the mind of Jesus is circumsribed by God the\n> (\t( Human\t) )\tSon. God the Son has complete access to the human\n> ( ( Mind\t) )\tmind but the human mind only has access to the mind\n> (\t(\t) )\tof God the Son when the Son allows access. This \n> (\t(_______) )\texplains why Jesus said even he did not know the \n> (_____________)\ttime of the kingdom.\t\n>\n>The ideas of a completely healthy version of split personality from\n>the field of psychology, and the intriguing ideas of being in a dream, seeing\n>yourself acting, knowing that is you, but also being omniscient. \n>\n\n[I\'ve explained it here before. If you want the full document, ask me by mail\n--Rex] \n\n\n "Questions arise as we begin to think about LOGOS and what His inner\nconsciousness was composed of. We need to clarify the two natures of Christ\nbriefly. The divine nature, which has existed eternally, did not undertake any\nessential changes during the incarnation which would cause a conflict with the\nattributes of God, the foremost of these being His immutability. This would\nmean that it remained impassable, that is, incapable of suffering and death,\nfree from ignorance and insusceptible to weakness and temptation. In the realm\nof the divine nature it is better to say that the Son of God became that which\nwas not absolute-and in Himself. The result of the incarnation was that the\ndivine LOGOS could be ignorant and weak, could be tempted and suffer and die,\nnot in His divine nature, but by the derivation of His possession of a human\nnature.\n This would mean that both the properties of the divine nature and the\nhuman nature are properties of the person, and therefore ascribed to the\nperson. By this reason we can say that the person can be omnipotent,\nomniscient, and omnipresent, yet at the same time be also a man of limited\npower, knowledge, a man of sorrows, subject to human wants and miseries. There\nis, however, no penetration of one nature into the other. Deity can no more\nshare the imperfections of humanity than humanity can share in the essential\nperfection of the Godhead.\n We are not to assume that there is a double personality due to the\npossession of the double natures. Christ\'s human nature is impersonal, in that\nit attains self-consciousness and self-determination in the personality of the\nGod-man. We must now differentiate between the person and the nature of the\nMan. Nature is defined:\n\n"the distinguishing qualities or properties of something; the fundamental\ncharacter, disposition or temperament of a living being, innate and\nunchangeable."\n\n Nature is then, in essence, the substance possessed in common, in as such\nthe Trinity have one nature. There is also a common nature of mankind. \nPersonality, on the other hand, is the separate subsistence of nature, with the\npower of consciousness and will. It is for this reason that the human nature\nof Christ has not, nor ever had, a separate subsistence, that it is impersonal.\n LOGOS, the God-man, represents the principle of personality. It is equally\nimportant to see that self-consciousness and self-determination do not, as\nsuch, belong to the nature. It is for this reason that we can justifiably say\nthat Jesus did not have two consciousness or two wills, but rather one. It is\ntheanthropic, an activity of the one personality which unites in itself the\nhuman and the divine natures, being that neither the consciousness nor the will\nare simply human or simply divine."\n\n\n[The quotation given above is not identified, and it\'s not entirely\nclear to me what position Loren is taking on it. Just for clarity,\nlet me note that the view expressed in it is one of the classic\nChristological heresies -- monothelitism. That\'s the position that\nChrist\'s two natures were not complete, in that there was only one\nwill. In most cases (which I think includes this example), it was the\nhuman will that was regarded as missing.\n\nNormally people who talk about Christ\'s human nature as being\n"impersonal" mean it in a somewhat more abstract sense. That is, they\nare using "person" as hypostatis, not in the usual English sense of\npersonality. In this use, the doctrine is called "anhypostasia".\nPersonally I think anhypostasia is just a more sophisticated way of\ndenying that the Logos took on humanity fully. However it has never\nbeen formally ruled a heresy, and in fact has been held by influential\ntheologians both ancient and modern (e.g. Athanasius). But the\nquotation above appears to be going farther than even Athanasius went,\ninto the realm of the overtly heretical.\n\n--clh]\n',
'From: hyder@cs.utexas.edu (Syed Irfan Hyder)\nSubject: Re: The Qur\'an and atheists (was Re: Jewish Settlers Demolish a Mosque in Gaza)\nOrganization: CS Dept, University of Texas at Austin\nLines: 20\nNNTP-Posting-Host: pageboy.cs.utexas.edu\n\nIn article <2944846190.2.p00261@psilink.com> "Robert Knowles" <p00261@psilink.com> writes:\n::DATE: Sun, 25 Apr 1993 10:13:30 GMT\n::FROM: Fred Rice <darice@yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au:\n::\n::\n::The Qur\'an talks about those who take their lusts and worldly desires for \n::their "god".\n::\n::I think this probably encompasses most atheists.\n::\n:: Fred Rice\n:: darice@yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au \n:\n:As well as all the Muslim men screwing fourteen year old prostitutes in\n:Thailand. Got a better quote?\n:\n\nI wonder if the above quote forms the justification for athiesm, and\nthe equanimity with which their belief is arrived at!!!!!\n\n',
"From: mam@mouse.cmhnet.org (Mike McAngus)\nSubject: Re: Death Penalty (was Re: Political Atheists?)\nOrganization: The cat is on the mat \nX-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL9]\nLines: 37\n\nOn Tue, 20 Apr 1993 04:32:59 GMT bil@okcforum.osrhe.edu (Bill Conner) wrote:\n>This is fascinating. Atheists argue for abortion, defend homosexuality\n>as a means of population control, insist that the only values are\n>biological and condemn war and capital punishment. According to\n>Benedikt, if something is contardictory, it cannot exist, which in\n>this case means atheists I suppose.\n\nWhat atheists are you talking about? \n\nIMNSHO, Abortion is the womans choice. Homosexual sex is the choice of \nthe people involved. War is sometimes necessary. \n\nThis leaves capital punishment. I oppose capital punishemnt because \nmistakes can happen (yes this thread went around with no resolution\nrecently).\n\nAs far as poplulation control, I think contraception and education are\nthe best courses of action.\n\n>I would like to understand how an atheist can object to war (an\n>excellent means of controlling population growth), or to capital\n>punishment, I'm sorry but the logic escapes me.\n\nThat's because you are again making the assumption that all Atheists \nhave some specific mindset.\n\n>And why just capital punishment, what is being questioned here, the\n>propriety of killing or of punishment? What is the basis of the\n>ecomplaint?\n\nMistakes can happen Bill, and I could be the victim of such a mistake.\n\n--\nMike McAngus | The Truth is still the Truth\nmam@mouse.cmhnet.org | Even if you choose to ignore it.\n |\n(Some of the old .sig viruses are still the best)\n",
"From: peter@gort.trl.OZ.AU (Peter K. Campbell)\nSubject: Re: Virtual Reality for X on the CHEAP!\nOrganization: Telecom Research Labs, Melbourne, Australia\nLines: 28\n\nridout@bink.plk.af.mil (Brian S. Ridout) writes:\n\n>In article <1993Apr15.134802.21995@mfltd.co.uk>, sts@mfltd.co.uk (Steve Sherwood (x5543)) writes:\n>|> Has anyone got multiverse to work ?\n>|> \n>|> I have built it on 486 svr4, mips svr4s and Sun SparcStation.\n>|> \n>|> There seems to be many bugs in it. The 'dogfight' and 'dactyl' simply do nothing\n>|> (After fixing a bug where a variable is defined twice in two different modules - One needed\n>|> setting to static - else the client core-dumped)\n>|> \n>|> Steve\n>|> -- \n>|> \n>|> Extn 5543, sts@mfltd.co.uk, !uunet!mfocus!sts\n\nI've tried compiling it on several SPARCstations with gcc 2.22. After\nfixing up a few bugs (3 missing constant definitions plus a couple of\nother things) I got it to compile & link, but after starting client\n& server I just get a black window; sometimes the client core dumps,\nsometimes the server, sometimes I get a broken pipe, sometimes it\njust sits there doing nothing although I occassionally get the\ncursor to become a cross-hair in dog-fight, but that's it. I've\nsent word to the author plus what I did to fix it last week, but\nno reply as yet.\n\nPeter K. Campbell\np.campbell@trl.oz.au\n",
'From: jhpb@sarto.budd-lake.nj.us (Joseph H. Buehler)\nSubject: Re: What WAS the immaculate conception?\nOrganization: none\nLines: 12\n\nMarida Ignacio writes:\n\n STILL, the Angel Gabriel\'s greetings was:\n "Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with you.\n Blessed art thou amongst women".\n\n Even Mary was confused about this greeting.\n\nThere are various explanations for her reaction to the angel\'s\ngreeting. One is that she grasped what the angel was getting at, that\nshe was to be the mother of the Messiah. And knew what this entailed,\nall the suffering. This gave her a moment\'s pause.\n',
'From: I3150101@dbstu1.rz.tu-bs.de (Benedikt Rosenau)\nSubject: Re: After 2000 years, can we say that Christian Morality is\nOrganization: Technical University Braunschweig, Germany\nLines: 35\n\nIn article <1r0fpv$p11@horus.ap.mchp.sni.de>\nfrank@D012S658.uucp (Frank O\'Dwyer) writes:\n \n(Deletion)\n># Point: Morals are, in essence, personal opinions. Usually\n>#(ideally) well-founded, motivated such, but nonetheless personal. The\n>#fact that a real large lot of people agree on some moral question,\n>#sometimes even for the same reason, does not make morals objective; it\n>#makes humans somewhat alike in their opinions on that moral question,\n>#which can be good for the evolution of a social species.\n>\n>And if a "real large lot" (nice phrase) of people agree that there is a\n>football on a desk, I\'m supposed to see a logical difference between the two?\n>Perhaps you can explain the difference to me, since you seem to see it\n>so clearly.\n>\n(rest deleted)\n \nThat\'s a fallacy, and it is not the first time it is pointed out.\nFor one, you have never given a set of morals people agree upon. Unlike\na football. Further, you conveniently ignore here that there are\nmany who would not agree on tghe morality of something. The analogy\ndoes not hold.\n \nOne can expect sufficiently many people to agree on its being a football,\nwhile YOU have to give the evidence that only vanishing number disagrees\nwith a set of morals YOU have to give.\n \nFurther, the above is evidence, not proof. Proof would evolve out of testing\nyour theory of absolute morals against competing theories.\n \n \nThe above is one of the arguments you reiterate while you never answer\nthe objections. Evidence that you are a preacher.\n Benedikt\n',
'From: mccullou@snake2.cs.wisc.edu (Mark McCullough)\nSubject: Re: Death Penalty / Gulf War (long)\nOrganization: University of Wisconsin, Madison -- Computer Sciences Dept.\nLines: 75\n\nIn article <37501@optima.cs.arizona.edu> sham@cs.arizona.edu (Shamim Zvonko Mohamed) writes:\n>This is the most unmitigated bilge I\'ve seen in a while. Jim Brown obviously\n>has possession of the right-wing token.\n>\n>> Diplomatic alternatives, including sanctions, were ineffective.\n>\n>"In December, former national security adviser Zbigniew Brzezinski told a\n>Senate committee that sanctions were costing Iraq $100 million per day, and\n>that the multinational coalition could take all the time in the world.\n>Iraq, he suggested, was losing badly every day it defied the UN demands,\n>while the community of nations won every day -- with no taking of life or\n>loss of life." -- FCNL Washington Newsletter.\n\nAs I understand, that number is deceptive. The reason is that the money\ncost was in non-oil sales for the most part. Iraq still is not allowed\nto sell oil, or do many of the things under the initial sanctions, but\nis still surviving.\n\n>> And BTW, the reason I brought up the blanket-bombing in Germany was \n>> because you were bemoaning the Iraqi civilian casualties as being \n>> "so deplorable". Yet blanket bombing was instituted because bombing \n>> wasn\'t accurate enough to hit industrial/military targets in a \n>> decisive way by any other method at that time. But in the Gulf War, \n>> precision bombing was the norm.\n>\n>BULLSHIT!!! In the Gulf Massacre, 7% of all ordnance used was "smart." The\n>rest - that\'s 93% - was just regular, dumb ol\' iron bombs and stuff. Have\n>you forgotten that the Pentagon definition of a successful Patriot launch\n>was when the missile cleared the launching tube with no damage? Or that a\n>successful interception of a Scud was defined as "the Patriot and Scud\n>passed each other in the same area of the sky"?\n\nOf the ~93% (I have heard figures closer to 80%, but I won\'t quibble your\nfigures), most was dropped in carpet bombing of regions only occupied by\nenemy troops. A B-52 drops a lot of bombs in one sortie, and we used them\naround the clock. Not to mention other smaller aircraft using dumb\nmunitions. \n\n2. The Patriot uses a proximity fuse. The adjusted figures for number\nof Patriot kills of SS-1 derivitives is ~60-70%. That figure came\nnot from some fluke in the Pentagon, but a someone working with such\nstuff in another part of DoD.\n\n3. The statement precision bombing was the norm, is true around areas\nwhere civilians were close to the target. We dropped by tonnage very\nlittle bombs in populated regions, explaining the figures. \n\n>And of the 7% that was the "smart" stuff, 35% hit. Again - try to follow me\n>here - that means 65% of this "smart" arsenal missed.\n\nThis figure, is far below all the other figures I have seen. If it\nis indeed accurate, then how do you explain the discrepancy between\nthat figure, and other figures from international organizations?\nMost figures I have seen place the hit ratio close to 70%, which is \nstill far higher than your 35%. Or does your figure say a bomb\nmissed if the plane took off with it, and the bomb never hit the target,\nregardless of whether or not the bomb was dropped? Such methods\nare used all the time to lie with statistics.\n\n>> The stories\n>> of "hundreds of thousands" of Iraqi civilian dead is just plain bunk.\n>\n>Prove it. I have a source that says that to date, the civilian death count\n>(er, excuse me, I mean "collateral damage") is about 200,000.\n\nI have _never_ seen any source that was claiming such a figure. Please\npost the source so its reliability can be judged. \n\n\n\n-- \n***************************************************************************\n* mccullou@whipple.cs.wisc.edu * Never program and drink beer at the same *\n* M^2 * time. It doesn\'t work. *\n***************************************************************************\n',
'From: banschbach@vms.ocom.okstate.edu\nSubject: Re: INFO: Colonics and Purification?\nLines: 63\nNntp-Posting-Host: vms.ocom.okstate.edu\nOrganization: OSU College of Osteopathic Medicine\n\nIn article <80651@cup.portal.com>, mmm@cup.portal.com (Mark Robert Thorson) writes:\n>> Not everything that goes in comes out, and personaly I don\'t mind giving\n>> my body a hand once in a while.\n>> \n>> Just my experience,\n>> \n>> George Paap\n> \n> I\'ve got a very nice collection of historical books on medical quackery,\n> and on the topic of massage this is a recurring theme. Ordinary massage\n> is intended to make a person feel better, especially if they have muscular\n> or joint problems. But -- like chiropracty -- there are some practitioners\n> who take the technique to a far extreme, invoking what seems to me to be\n> quack science to justify their technique.\n> \n> In the case of massage, there is a technique called "deep abdominal massage"\n> in which the masseur is literally attempting to massage the intestines!\n> The notion is that undigested food adheres to the inner surface of the\n> intestines and putrifies, releasing poisons which cause various disease\n> syndromes. By this vigorous and painful procedure, it is alleged that\n> these deposits can be loosened up and passed out.\n> \n> I just can\'t believe this idea has any truth behind it! The human intestine\n> is not a New York City sewer pipe! And even if it were, you eat half of\n> a small box of Triscuits, and there ain\'t gonna be nothin\' sticking to the\n> inner surface of your intestine :-)\n\nMark, this is the most reasonable post that I\'ve seen in Sci. Med. on the \ntopic of Colonic Flushing. I\'m in a profession that uses manipulation(a \nvery refined form of massage) to treat various human diseases. Proving \nthat manipulation works has been extremely difficult(as the MD\'s delight in \npointing out). The Osteopathic Profession seems to be making better \nprogress than the chiropractors in proving(scientifically) that their \ntechingues work. The JAOA recently had a study on the use of manipulation \nto relieve mensrual cramps in women with results that were as good or \nbetter than drug treatment(using physiological measurements, and not just \nthe woman\'s preception of improvement). This study was hailed by the JAOA \neditors as the turning point in the profession\'s long struggle to prove \nitself to the medical community.\n\nI\'m currently trying to get the AOA(American Osteopathic Association) which \nhas supported most of the Osteopathic research in the U.S. to also support \nnutrition education and research. I\'ve pointed out, in a grant proposal, \nthat the founder of Osteopathic Medicine(A.T. Still) embraced both diet and \nmanipulation to set himself apart from the MD\'s of his time who were pushing \nonly drugs(Still was himself an MD who got real dissillusioned with drugs \nduring his service in the Civil War). He decided that there had to be a \nbetter way to treat human disease since he saw the cure(drugs) as being \nworse than the disease. Through his many years of study of the human body, \nhe developed his manipulation techniques that he then taught to his \nstudents in the U.S\'s first Osteopathic Medical school. We now have 17.\nStill used manipulation to treat(and also diagnose) human disease but he \nused diet to prevent human disease. I\'m trying to get the Osteopathic \nProfession to return to it\'s roots and beat the MD\'s to the punch(so to \nspeak). Both DO\'s and MD\'s in current medical practice have very little \nunderstanding of how diet affects human health. This has to change.\n\nMartin Banschbach, Ph.D.\nProfessor of Biochemistry and Chairman\nDepartment of Biochemistry and Microbiology\nOSU COllege of Osteopathic Medicine\n\n"You are what you eat." \n',
'From: JEK@cu.nih.gov\nSubject: tongues (read me!)\nLines: 8\n\nPersons interested in the tongues question are are invited to\nperuse an essay of mine, obtainable by sending the message\n GET TONGUES NOTRANS\n to LISTSERV@ASUACAD.BITNET or to\n LISTSERV@ASUVM.INRE.ASU.EDU\n\n Yours,\n James Kiefer\n',
"From: perry@dsinc.com (Jim Perry)\nSubject: Re: Room for Metaphor?\nOrganization: Decision Support Inc.\nLines: 18\nNNTP-Posting-Host: bozo.dsinc.com\n\nIn article <bakerlj.27.735422537@augustana.edu> bakerlj@augustana.edu (LLOYD BAKER) writes:\n>What I want is a response \n>giving me the pros and cons of Metaphorical religious language. Could an \n>atheist accept this view without giving up the foundamentals of what he \n>believes in? \n\nCould an atheist accept a usage in which religious literature or\ntradition is viewed in a metaphorical way? Of course: this is\nessentially what we do with Homer, or with other concepts such as\nfate, luck, free will ;-)... However, there remains the question of\nwhether the religious literature of -- say -- Christianity is a\nparticularly *good* set of metaphors for the world today. It's also\nentirely unclear, and to me quite unlikely, that one could take a\ncontemporary religion like that and divorce the metaphoric potential\nfrom the literalism and absolutism it carries now in many cases.\n-- \nJim Perry perry@dsinc.com Decision Support, Inc., Matthews NC\nThese are my opinions. For a nominal fee, they can be yours.\n",
'From: tgl+@cs.cmu.edu (Tom Lane)\nSubject: JPEG image compression: Frequently Asked Questions\nSummary: Useful info about JPEG (JPG) image files and programs\nKeywords: JPEG, image compression, FAQ\nSupersedes: <jpeg-faq_735169170@g.gp.cs.cmu.edu>\nNntp-Posting-Host: g.gp.cs.cmu.edu\nReply-To: jpeg-info@uunet.uu.net\nOrganization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon\nExpires: Mon, 31 May 1993 03:14:50 GMT\nLines: 1034\n\nArchive-name: jpeg-faq\nLast-modified: 2 May 1993\n\nThis FAQ article discusses JPEG image compression. Suggestions for\nadditions and clarifications are welcome.\n\nNew since version of 18 April 1993:\n * New version of XV supports 24-bit viewing for X Windows.\n * New versions of DVPEG & Image Alchemy for DOS.\n * New versions of Image Archiver & PMView for OS/2.\n * New listing: MGIF for monochrome-display Ataris.\n\n\nThis article includes the following sections:\n\n[1] What is JPEG?\n[2] Why use JPEG?\n[3] When should I use JPEG, and when should I stick with GIF?\n[4] How well does JPEG compress images?\n[5] What are good "quality" settings for JPEG?\n[6] Where can I get JPEG software?\n [6A] "canned" software, viewers, etc.\n [6B] source code\n[7] What\'s all this hoopla about color quantization?\n[8] How does JPEG work?\n[9] What about lossless JPEG?\n[10] Why all the argument about file formats?\n[11] How do I recognize which file format I have, and what do I do about it?\n[12] What about arithmetic coding?\n[13] Does loss accumulate with repeated compression/decompression?\n[14] What are some rules of thumb for converting GIF images to JPEG?\n\nSections 1-6 are basic info that every JPEG user needs to know;\nsections 7-14 are advanced info for the curious.\n\nThis article is posted every 2 weeks. You can always find the latest version\nin the news.answers archive at rtfm.mit.edu (18.70.0.226). By FTP, fetch\n/pub/usenet/news.answers/jpeg-faq; or if you don\'t have FTP, send e-mail to\nmail-server@rtfm.mit.edu with body "send usenet/news.answers/jpeg-faq".\nMany other FAQ articles are also stored in this archive. For more\ninstructions on use of the archive, send e-mail to the same address with the\nwords "help" and "index" (no quotes) on separate lines. If you don\'t get a\nreply, the server may be misreading your return address; add a line such as\n"path myname@mysite" to specify your correct e-mail address to reply to.\n\n\n----------\n\n\n[1] What is JPEG?\n\nJPEG (pronounced "jay-peg") is a standardized image compression mechanism.\nJPEG stands for Joint Photographic Experts Group, the original name of the\ncommittee that wrote the standard. JPEG is designed for compressing either\nfull-color or gray-scale digital images of "natural", real-world scenes.\nIt does not work so well on non-realistic images, such as cartoons or line\ndrawings.\n\nJPEG does not handle black-and-white (1-bit-per-pixel) images, nor does it\nhandle motion picture compression. Standards for compressing those types\nof images are being worked on by other committees, named JBIG and MPEG\nrespectively.\n\nJPEG is "lossy", meaning that the image you get out of decompression isn\'t\nquite identical to what you originally put in. The algorithm achieves much\nof its compression by exploiting known limitations of the human eye, notably\nthe fact that small color details aren\'t perceived as well as small details\nof light-and-dark. Thus, JPEG is intended for compressing images that will\nbe looked at by humans. If you plan to machine-analyze your images, the\nsmall errors introduced by JPEG may be a problem for you, even if they are\ninvisible to the eye.\n\nA useful property of JPEG is that the degree of lossiness can be varied by\nadjusting compression parameters. This means that the image maker can trade\noff file size against output image quality. You can make *extremely* small\nfiles if you don\'t mind poor quality; this is useful for indexing image\narchives, making thumbnail views or icons, etc. etc. Conversely, if you\naren\'t happy with the output quality at the default compression setting, you\ncan jack up the quality until you are satisfied, and accept lesser compression.\n\n\n[2] Why use JPEG?\n\nThere are two good reasons: to make your image files smaller, and to store\n24-bit-per-pixel color data instead of 8-bit-per-pixel data.\n\nMaking image files smaller is a big win for transmitting files across\nnetworks and for archiving libraries of images. Being able to compress a\n2 Mbyte full-color file down to 100 Kbytes or so makes a big difference in\ndisk space and transmission time! (If you are comparing GIF and JPEG, the\nsize ratio is more like four to one. More details below.)\n\nIf your viewing software doesn\'t support JPEG directly, you\'ll have to\nconvert JPEG to some other format for viewing or manipulating images. Even\nwith a JPEG-capable viewer, it takes longer to decode and view a JPEG image\nthan to view an image of a simpler format (GIF, for instance). Thus, using\nJPEG is essentially a time/space tradeoff: you give up some time in order to\nstore or transmit an image more cheaply.\n\nIt\'s worth noting that when network or phone transmission is involved, the\ntime savings from transferring a shorter file can be much greater than the\nextra time to decompress the file. I\'ll let you do the arithmetic yourself.\n\nThe other reason why JPEG will gradually replace GIF as a standard Usenet\nposting format is that JPEG can store full color information: 24 bits/pixel\n(16 million colors) instead of 8 or less (256 or fewer colors). If you have\nonly 8-bit display hardware then this may not seem like much of an advantage\nto you. Within a couple of years, though, 8-bit GIF will look as obsolete as\nblack-and-white MacPaint format does today. Furthermore, for reasons detailed\nin section 7, JPEG is far more useful than GIF for exchanging images among\npeople with widely varying color display hardware. Hence JPEG is considerably\nmore appropriate than GIF for use as a Usenet posting standard.\n\n\n[3] When should I use JPEG, and when should I stick with GIF?\n\nJPEG is *not* going to displace GIF entirely; for some types of images,\nGIF is superior in image quality, file size, or both. One of the first\nthings to learn about JPEG is which kinds of images to apply it to.\n\nAs a rule of thumb, JPEG is superior to GIF for storing full-color or\ngray-scale images of "realistic" scenes; that means scanned photographs and\nsimilar material. JPEG is superior even if you don\'t have 24-bit display\nhardware, and it is a LOT superior if you do. (See section 7 for details.)\n\nGIF does significantly better on images with only a few distinct colors,\nsuch as cartoons and line drawings. In particular, large areas of pixels\nthat are all *exactly* the same color are compressed very efficiently indeed\nby GIF. JPEG can\'t squeeze these files as much as GIF does without\nintroducing visible defects. This sort of image is best kept in GIF form.\n(In particular, single-color borders are quite cheap in GIF files, but they\nshould be avoided in JPEG files.)\n\nJPEG also has a hard time with very sharp edges: a row of pure-black pixels\nadjacent to a row of pure-white pixels, for example. Sharp edges tend to\ncome out blurred unless you use a very high quality setting. Again, this\nsort of thing is not found in scanned photographs, but it shows up fairly\noften in GIF files: borders, overlaid text, etc. The blurriness is\nparticularly objectionable with text that\'s only a few pixels high.\nIf you have a GIF with a lot of small-size overlaid text, don\'t JPEG it.\n\nComputer-drawn images (ray-traced scenes, for instance) usually fall between\nscanned images and cartoons in terms of complexity. The more complex and\nsubtly rendered the image, the more likely that JPEG will do well on it.\nThe same goes for semi-realistic artwork (fantasy drawings and such).\n\nPlain black-and-white (two level) images should never be converted to JPEG.\nYou need at least about 16 gray levels before JPEG is useful for gray-scale\nimages. It should also be noted that GIF is lossless for gray-scale images\nof up to 256 levels, while JPEG is not.\n\nIf you have an existing library of GIF images, you may wonder whether you\nshould convert them to JPEG. You will lose a little image quality if you do.\n(Section 7, which argues that JPEG image quality is superior to GIF, only\napplies if both formats start from a full-color original. If you start from\na GIF, you\'ve already irretrievably lost a great deal of information; JPEG\ncan only make things worse.) However, the disk space savings may justify\nconverting anyway. This is a decision you\'ll have to make for yourself.\nIf you do convert a GIF library to JPEG, see section 14 for hints. Be\nprepared to leave some images in GIF format, since some GIFs will not\nconvert well.\n\n\n[4] How well does JPEG compress images?\n\nPretty darn well. Here are some sample file sizes for an image I have\nhandy, a 727x525 full-color image of a ship in a harbor. The first three\nfiles are for comparison purposes; the rest were created with the free JPEG\nsoftware described in section 6B.\n\nFile\t Size in bytes\t\tComments\n\nship.ppm\t1145040 Original file in PPM format (no compression; 24 bits\n\t\t\t or 3 bytes per pixel, plus a few bytes overhead)\nship.ppm.Z\t 963829 PPM file passed through Unix compress\n\t\t\t compress doesn\'t accomplish a lot, you\'ll note.\n\t\t\t Other text-oriented compressors give similar results.\nship.gif\t 240438 Converted to GIF with ppmquant -fs 256 | ppmtogif\n\t\t\t Most of the savings is the result of losing color\n\t\t\t info: GIF saves 8 bits/pixel, not 24. (See sec. 7.)\n\nship.jpg95\t 155622 cjpeg -Q 95 (highest useful quality setting)\n\t\t\t This is indistinguishable from the 24-bit original,\n\t\t\t at least to my nonprofessional eyeballs.\nship.jpg75\t 58009 cjpeg -Q 75 (default setting)\n\t\t\t You have to look mighty darn close to distinguish this\n\t\t\t from the original, even with both on-screen at once.\nship.jpg50\t 38406 cjpeg -Q 50\n\t\t\t This has slight defects; if you know what to look\n\t\t\t for, you could tell it\'s been JPEGed without seeing\n\t\t\t the original. Still as good image quality as many\n\t\t\t recent postings in Usenet pictures groups.\nship.jpg25\t 25192 cjpeg -Q 25\n\t\t\t JPEG\'s characteristic "blockiness" becomes apparent\n\t\t\t at this setting (djpeg -blocksmooth helps some).\n\t\t\t Still, I\'ve seen plenty of Usenet postings that were\n\t\t\t of poorer image quality than this.\nship.jpg5o\t 6587 cjpeg -Q 5 -optimize (-optimize cuts table overhead)\n\t\t\t Blocky, but perfectly satisfactory for preview or\n\t\t\t indexing purposes. Note that this file is TINY:\n\t\t\t the compression ratio from the original is 173:1 !\n\nIn this case JPEG can make a file that\'s a factor of four or five smaller\nthan a GIF of comparable quality (the -Q 75 file is every bit as good as the\nGIF, better if you have a full-color display). This seems to be a typical\nratio for real-world scenes.\n\n\n[5] What are good "quality" settings for JPEG?\n\nMost JPEG compressors let you pick a file size vs. image quality tradeoff by\nselecting a quality setting. There seems to be widespread confusion about\nthe meaning of these settings. "Quality 95" does NOT mean "keep 95% of the\ninformation", as some have claimed. The quality scale is purely arbitrary;\nit\'s not a percentage of anything.\n\nThe name of the game in using JPEG is to pick the lowest quality setting\n(smallest file size) that decompresses into an image indistinguishable from\nthe original. This setting will vary from one image to another and from one\nobserver to another, but here are some rules of thumb.\n\nThe default quality setting (-Q 75) is very often the best choice. This\nsetting is about the lowest you can go without expecting to see defects in a\ntypical image. Try -Q 75 first; if you see defects, then go up. Except for\nexperimental purposes, never go above -Q 95; saying -Q 100 will produce a\nfile two or three times as large as -Q 95, but of hardly any better quality.\n\nIf the image was less than perfect quality to begin with, you might be able to\ngo down to -Q 50 without objectionable degradation. On the other hand, you\nmight need to go to a HIGHER quality setting to avoid further degradation.\nThe second case seems to apply much of the time when converting GIFs to JPEG.\nThe default -Q 75 is about right for compressing 24-bit images, but -Q 85 to\n95 is usually better for converting GIFs (see section 14 for more info).\n\nIf you want a very small file (say for preview or indexing purposes) and are\nprepared to tolerate large defects, a -Q setting in the range of 5 to 10 is\nabout right. -Q 2 or so may be amusing as "op art".\n\n(Note: the quality settings discussed in this article apply to the free JPEG\nsoftware described in section 6B, and to many programs based on it. Other\nJPEG implementations, such as Image Alchemy, may use a completely different\nquality scale. Some programs don\'t even provide a numeric scale, just\n"high"/"medium"/"low"-style choices.)\n\n\n[6] Where can I get JPEG software?\n\nMost of the programs described in this section are available by FTP.\nIf you don\'t know how to use FTP, see the FAQ article "How to find sources".\n(If you don\'t have direct access to FTP, read about ftpmail servers in the\nsame article.) That article appears regularly in news.answers, or you can\nget it by sending e-mail to mail-server@rtfm.mit.edu with\n"send usenet/news.answers/finding-sources" in the body. The "Anonymous FTP\nList FAQ" may also be helpful --- it\'s usenet/news.answers/ftp-list/faq in\nthe news.answers archive.\n\nNOTE: this list changes constantly. If you have a copy more than a couple\nmonths old, get the latest JPEG FAQ from the news.answers archive.\n\n\n[6A] If you are looking for "canned" software, viewers, etc:\n\nThe first part of this list is system-specific programs that only run on one\nkind of system. If you don\'t see what you want for your machine, check out\nthe portable JPEG software described at the end of the list. Note that this\nlist concentrates on free and shareware programs that you can obtain over\nInternet; but some commercial programs are listed too.\n\nX Windows:\n\nXV (shareware, $25) is an excellent viewer for JPEG, GIF, and many other\nimage formats. It can also do format conversion and some simple image\nmanipulations. It\'s available for FTP from export.lcs.mit.edu (18.24.0.12),\nfile contrib/xv-3.00.tar.Z. Version 3.00 is a major upgrade with support\nfor 24-bit displays and many other improvements; however, it is brand new\nand still has some bugs lurking. If you prefer not to be on the bleeding\nedge, stick with version 2.21, also available from export. Note that\nversion 2.21 is not a good choice if you have a 24-bit display (you\'ll get\nonly 8-bit color), nor for converting 24-bit images to JPEG. But 2.21 works\nfine for converting GIF and other 8-bit images to JPEG. CAUTION: there is a\nglitch in version 2.21: be sure to check the "save at normal size" checkbox\nwhen saving a JPEG file, or the file will be blurry.\n\nAnother good choice for X Windows is John Cristy\'s free ImageMagick package,\nalso available from export.lcs.mit.edu, file contrib/ImageMagick.tar.Z.\nThis package handles many image processing and conversion tasks. The\nImageMagick viewer handles 24-bit displays correctly; for colormapped\ndisplays, it does better (though slower) color quantization than XV or the\nbasic free JPEG software.\n\nBoth of the above are large, complex packages. If you just want a simple\nimage viewer, try xloadimage or xli. xloadimage supports JPEG in its latest\nrelease, 3.03. xloadimage is free and available from export.lcs.mit.edu,\nfile contrib/xloadimage-3.03.tar.Z. xli is a variant version of xloadimage,\nsaid by its fans to be somewhat faster and more robust than the original.\n(The current xli is indeed faster and more robust than the current\nxloadimage, at least with respect to JPEG files, because it has the IJG v4\ndecoder while xloadimage 3.03 is using a hacked-over v1. The next\nxloadimage release will fix this.) xli is also free and available from\nexport.lcs.mit.edu, file contrib/xli.1.14.tar.Z. Both programs are said\nto do the right thing with 24-bit displays.\n\n\nMS-DOS:\n\nThis covers plain DOS; for Windows or OS/2 programs, see the next headings.\n\nOne good choice is Eric Praetzel\'s free DVPEG, which views JPEG and GIF files.\nThe current version, 2.5, is available by FTP from sunee.uwaterloo.ca\n(129.97.50.50), file pub/jpeg/viewers/dvpeg25.zip. This is a good basic\nviewer that works on either 286 or 386/486 machines. The user interface is\nnot flashy, but it\'s functional.\n\nAnother freeware JPEG/GIF/TGA viewer is Mohammad Rezaei\'s Hiview. The\ncurrent version, 1.2, is available from Simtel20 and mirror sites (see NOTE\nbelow), file msdos/graphics/hv12.zip. Hiview requires a 386 or better CPU\nand a VCPI-compatible memory manager (QEMM386 and 386MAX work; Windows and\nOS/2 do not). Hiview is currently the fastest viewer for images that are no\nbigger than your screen. For larger images, it scales the image down to fit\non the screen (rather than using panning/scrolling as most viewers do).\nYou may or may not prefer this approach, but there\'s no denying that it\nslows down loading of large images considerably. Note: installation is a\nbit tricky; read the directions carefully!\n\nA shareware alternative is ColorView for DOS ($30). This is easier to\ninstall than either of the two freeware alternatives. Its user interface is\nalso much spiffier-looking, although personally I find it harder to use ---\nmore keystrokes, inconsistent behavior. It is faster than DVPEG but a\nlittle slower than Hiview, at least on my hardware. (For images larger than\nscreen size, DVPEG and ColorView seem to be about the same speed, and both\nare faster than Hiview.) The current version is 2.1, available from\nSimtel20 and mirror sites (see NOTE below), file msdos/graphics/dcview21.zip.\nRequires a VESA graphics driver; if you don\'t have one, look in vesadrv2.zip\nor vesa-tsr.zip from the same directory. (Many recent PCs have a built-in\nVESA driver, so don\'t try to load a VESA driver unless ColorView complains\nthat the driver is missing.)\n\nA second shareware alternative is Fullview, which has been kicking around\nthe net for a while, but I don\'t know any stable archive location for it.\nThe current (rather old) version is inferior to the above viewers anyway.\nThe author tells me that a new version of Fullview will be out shortly\nand it will be submitted to the Simtel20 archives at that time.\n\nThe well-known GIF viewer CompuShow (CSHOW) supports JPEG in its latest\nrevision, 8.60a. However, CSHOW\'s JPEG implementation isn\'t very good:\nit\'s slow (about half the speed of the above viewers) and image quality is\npoor except on hi-color displays. Too bad ... it\'d have been nice to see a\ngood JPEG capability in CSHOW. Shareware, $25. Available from Simtel20 and\nmirror sites (see NOTE below), file msdos/gif/cshw860a.zip.\n\nDue to the remarkable variety of PC graphics hardware, any one of these\nviewers might not work on your particular machine. If you can\'t get *any*\nof them to work, you\'ll need to use one of the following conversion programs\nto convert JPEG to GIF, then view with your favorite GIF viewer. (If you\nhave hi-color hardware, don\'t use GIF as the intermediate format; try to\nfind a TARGA-capable viewer instead. VPIC5.0 is reputed to do the right\nthing with hi-color displays.)\n\nThe Independent JPEG Group\'s free JPEG converters are FTPable from Simtel20\nand mirror sites (see NOTE below), file msdos/graphics/jpeg4.zip (or\njpeg4386.zip if you have a 386 and extended memory). These files are DOS\ncompilations of the free source code described in section 6B; they will\nconvert JPEG to and from GIF, Targa, and PPM formats.\n\nHandmade Software offers free JPEG<=>GIF conversion tools, GIF2JPG/JPG2GIF.\nThese are slow and are limited to conversion to and from GIF format; in\nparticular, you can\'t get 24-bit color output from a JPEG. The major\nadvantage of these tools is that they will read and write HSI\'s proprietary\nJPEG format as well as the Usenet-standard JFIF format. Since HSI-format\nfiles are rather widespread on BBSes, this is a useful capability. Version\n2.0 of these tools is free (prior versions were shareware). Get it from\nSimtel20 and mirror sites (see NOTE below), file msdos/graphics/gif2jpg2.zip.\nNOTE: do not use HSI format for files to be posted on Internet, since it is\nnot readable on non-PC platforms.\n\nHandmade Software also has a shareware image conversion and manipulation\npackage, Image Alchemy. This will translate JPEG files (both JFIF and HSI\nformats) to and from many other image formats. It can also display images.\nA demo version of Image Alchemy version 1.6.2 is available from Simtel20 and\nmirror sites (see NOTE below), file msdos/graphics/alch162.zip.\n\nNOTE ABOUT SIMTEL20: The Internet\'s key archive site for PC-related programs\nis Simtel20, full name wsmr-simtel20.army.mil (192.88.110.20). Simtel20\nruns a non-Unix system with weird directory names; where this document\nrefers to directory (eg) "msdos/graphics" at Simtel20, that really means\n"pd1:<msdos.graphics>". If you are not physically on MILnet, you should\nexpect rather slow FTP transfer rates from Simtel20. There are several\nInternet sites that maintain copies (mirrors) of the Simtel20 archives;\nmost FTP users should go to one of the mirror sites instead. A popular USA\nmirror site is oak.oakland.edu (141.210.10.117), which keeps Simtel20 files\nin (eg) "/pub/msdos/graphics". If you have no FTP capability, you can\nretrieve files from Simtel20 by e-mail; see informational postings in\ncomp.archives.msdos.announce to find out how. If you are outside the USA,\nconsult the same newsgroup to learn where your nearest Simtel20 mirror is.\n\nMicrosoft Windows:\n\nThere are several Windows programs capable of displaying JPEG images.\n(Windows viewers are generally slower than DOS viewers on the same hardware,\ndue to Windows\' system overhead. Note that you can run the DOS conversion\nprograms described above inside a Windows DOS window.)\n\nThe newest entry is WinECJ, which is free and EXTREMELY fast. Version 1.0\nis available from ftp.rahul.net, file /pub/bryanw/pc/jpeg/wecj.zip.\nRequires Windows 3.1 and 256-or-more-colors mode. This is a no-frills\nviewer with the bad habit of hogging the machine completely while it\ndecodes; and the image quality is noticeably worse than other viewers.\nBut it\'s so fast you\'ll use it anyway, at least for previewing...\n\nJView is freeware, fairly fast, has good on-line help, and can write out the\ndecompressed image in Windows BMP format; but it can\'t create new JPEG\nfiles, and it doesn\'t view GIFs. JView also lacks some other useful\nfeatures of the shareware viewers (such as brightness adjustment), but it\'s\nan excellent basic viewer. The current version, 0.9, is available from\nftp.cica.indiana.edu (129.79.20.84), file pub/pc/win3/desktop/jview090.zip.\n(Mirrors of this archive can be found at some other Internet sites,\nincluding wuarchive.wustl.edu.)\n\nWinJPEG (shareware, $20) displays JPEG,GIF,Targa,TIFF, and BMP image files;\nit can write all of these formats too, so it can be used as a converter.\nIt has some other nifty features including color-balance adjustment and\nslideshow. The current version is 2.1, available from Simtel20 and mirror\nsites (see NOTE above), file msdos/windows3/winjp210.zip. (This is a slow\n286-compatible version; if you register, you\'ll get the 386-only version,\nwhich is roughly 25% faster.)\n\nColorView is another shareware entry ($30). This was an early and promising\ncontender, but it has not been updated in some time, and at this point it\nhas no real advantages over WinJPEG. If you want to try it anyway, the\ncurrent version is 0.97, available from ftp.cica.indiana.edu, file\npub/pc/win3/desktop/cview097.zip. (I understand that a new version will\nbe appearing once the authors are finished with ColorView for DOS.)\n\nDVPEG (see DOS heading) also works under Windows, but only in full-screen\nmode, not in a window.\n\nOS/2:\n\nThe following files are available from hobbes.nmsu.edu (128.123.35.151).\nNote: check /pub/uploads for more recent versions --- the hobbes moderator\nis not very fast about moving uploads into their permanent directories.\n/pub/os2/2.x/graphics/jpegv4.zip\n 32-bit version of free IJG conversion programs, version 4.\n/pub/os2/all/graphics/jpeg4-16.zip\n 16-bit version of same, for OS/2 1.x.\n/pub/os2/2.x/graphics/imgarc12.zip\n Image Archiver 1.02: image conversion/viewing with PM graphical interface.\n Strong on conversion functions, viewing is a bit weaker. Shareware, $15.\n/pub/os2/2.x/graphics/pmjpeg11.zip\n PMJPEG 1.1: OS/2 2.x port of WinJPEG, a popular viewer for Windows\n (see description in Windows section). Shareware, $20.\n/pub/os2/2.x/graphics/pmview85.zip\n PMView 0.85: JPEG/GIF/BMP viewer. GIF viewing very fast, JPEG viewing\n fast if you have huge amounts of RAM, otherwise about the same speed\n as the above programs. Strong 24-bit display support. Shareware, $20.\n\nMacintosh:\n\nMost Mac JPEG programs rely on Apple\'s JPEG implementation, which is part of\nthe QuickTime system extension; so you need to have QuickTime installed.\nTo use QuickTime, you need a 68020 or better CPU and you need to be running\nSystem 6.0.7 or later. (If you\'re running System 6, you must also install\nthe 32-bit QuickDraw extension; this is built-in on System 7.) You can get\nQuickTime by FTP from ftp.apple.com, file dts/mac/quicktime/quicktime.hqx.\n(As of 11/92, this file contains QuickTime 1.5, which is better than QT 1.0\nin several ways. With respect to JPEG, it is marginally faster and\nconsiderably less prone to crash when fed a corrupt JPEG file. However,\nsome applications seem to have compatibility problems with QT 1.5.)\n\nMac users should keep in mind that QuickTime\'s JPEG format, PICT/JPEG, is\nnot the same as the Usenet-standard JFIF JPEG format. (See section 10 for\ndetails.) If you post images on Usenet, make sure they are in JFIF format.\nMost of the programs mentioned below can generate either format.\n\nThe first choice is probably JPEGView, a free program for viewing images\nthat are in JFIF format, PICT/JPEG format, or GIF format. It also can\nconvert between the two JPEG formats. The current version, 2.0, is a big\nimprovement over prior versions. Get it from sumex-aim.stanford.edu\n(36.44.0.6), file /info-mac/app/jpeg-view-20.hqx. Requires System 7 and\nQuickTime. On 8-bit displays, JPEGView usually produces the best color\nimage quality of all the currently available Mac JPEG viewers. JPEGView can\nview large images in much less memory than other Mac viewers; in fact, it\'s\nthe only one that can deal with JPEG images much over 640x480 pixels on a\ntypical 4MB Mac. Given a large image, JPEGView automatically scales it down\nto fit on the screen, rather than presenting scroll bars like most other\nviewers. (You can zoom in on any desired portion, though.) Some people\nlike this behavior, some don\'t. Overall, JPEGView\'s user interface is very\nwell thought out.\n\nGIFConverter, a shareware ($40) image viewer/converter, supports JFIF and\nPICT/JPEG, as well as GIF and several other image formats. The latest\nversion is 2.3.2. Get it from sumex-aim.stanford.edu, file\n/info-mac/art/gif/gif-converter-232.hqx. Requires System 6.0.5 or later.\nGIFConverter is not better than JPEGView as a plain JPEG/GIF viewer, but\nit has much more extensive image manipulation and format conversion\ncapabilities, so you may find it worth its shareware fee if you do a lot of\nplaying around with images. Also, the newest version of GIFConverter can\nload and save JFIF images *without* QuickTime, so it is your best bet if\nyour machine is too old to run QuickTime. (But it\'s faster with QuickTime.)\nNote: If GIFConverter runs out of memory trying to load a large JPEG, try\nconverting the file to GIF with JPEG Convert, then viewing the GIF version.\n\nJPEG Convert, a Mac version of the free IJG JPEG conversion utilities, is\navailable from sumex-aim.stanford.edu, file /info-mac/app/jpeg-convert-10.hqx.\nThis will run on any Mac, but it only does file conversion, not viewing.\nYou can use it in conjunction with any GIF viewer.\n\nPrevious versions of this FAQ recommended Imagery JPEG v0.6, a JPEG<=>GIF\nconverter based on an old version of the IJG code. If you are using this\nprogram, you definitely should replace it with JPEG Convert.\n\nApple\'s free program PictPixie can view images in JFIF, QuickTime JPEG, and\nGIF format, and can convert between these formats. You can get PictPixie\nfrom ftp.apple.com, file dts/mac/quicktime/qt.1.0.stuff/pictpixie.hqx.\nRequires QuickTime. PictPixie was intended as a developer\'s tool, and it\'s\nreally not the best choice unless you like to fool around with QuickTime.\nSome of its drawbacks are that it requires lots of memory, it produces\nrelatively poor color image quality on anything less than a 24-bit display,\nand it has a relatively unfriendly user interface. Worse, PictPixie is an\nunsupported program, meaning it has some minor bugs that Apple does not\nintend to fix. (There is an old version of PictPixie, called\nPICTCompressor, floating around the net. If you have this you should trash\nit, as it\'s even buggier. Also, the QuickTime Starter Kit includes a much\ncleaned-up descendant of PictPixie called Picture Compressor. Note that\nPicture Compressor is NOT free and may not be distributed on the net.)\n\nStorm Technology\'s Picture Decompress is a free JPEG viewer/converter.\nThis rather old program is inferior to the above programs in many ways, but\nit will run without System 7 or QuickTime, so you may be forced to use it on\nolder systems. (It does need 32-bit QuickDraw, so really old machines can\'t\nuse it.) You can get it from sumex-aim.stanford.edu, file\n/info-mac/app/picture-decompress-201.hqx. You must set the file type of a\ndownloaded image file to \'JPEG\' to allow Picture Decompress to open it.\n\nIf your machine is too old to run 32-bit QuickDraw (a Mac Plus for instance),\nGIFConverter is your only choice for single-program JPEG viewing. If you\ndon\'t want to pay for GIFConverter, use JPEG Convert and a free GIF viewer.\n\nMore and more commercial Mac applications are supporting JPEG, although not\nall can deal with the Usenet-standard JFIF format. Adobe Photoshop, version\n2.0.1 or later, can read and write JFIF-format JPEG files (use the JPEG\nplug-in from the Acquire menu). You must set the file type of a downloaded\nJPEG file to \'JPEG\' to allow Photoshop to recognize it.\n\nAmiga:\n\n(Most programs listed in this section are stored in the AmiNet archive at\namiga.physik.unizh.ch (130.60.80.80). There are many mirror sites of this\narchive and you should try to use the closest one. In the USA, a good\nchoice is wuarchive.wustl.edu; look under /mirrors/amiga.physik.unizh.ch/...)\n\nHamLab Plus is an excellent JPEG viewer/converter, as well as being a\ngeneral image manipulation tool. It\'s cheap (shareware, $20) and can read\nseveral formats besides JPEG. The current version is 2.0.8. A demo version\nis available from amiga.physik.unizh.ch (and mirror sites), file\namiga/gfx/edit/hamlab208d.lha. The demo version will crop images larger\nthan 512x512, but it is otherwise fully functional.\n\nRend24 (shareware, $30) is an image renderer that can display JPEG, ILBM,\nand GIF images. The program can be used to create animations, even\ncapturing frames on-the-fly from rendering packages like Lightwave. The\ncurrent version is 1.05, available from amiga.physik.unizh.ch (and mirror\nsites), file amiga/os30/gfx/rend105.lha. (Note: although this directory is\nsupposedly for AmigaDOS 3.0 programs, the program will also run under\nAmigaDOS 1.3, 2.04 or 2.1.)\n\nViewtek is a free JPEG/ILBM/GIF/ANIM viewer. The current version is 1.04,\navailable from amiga.physik.unizh.ch (and mirror sites), file\namiga/gfx/show/ViewTek104.lha.\n\nIf you\'re willing to spend real money, there are several commercial packages\nthat support JPEG. Two are written by Thomas Krehbiel, the author of Rend24\nand Viewtek. These are CineMorph, a standalone image morphing package, and\nImageFX, an impressive 24-bit image capture, conversion, editing, painting,\neffects and prepress package that also includes CineMorph. Both are\ndistributed by Great Valley Products. Art Department Professional (ADPro),\nfrom ASDG Inc, is the most widely used commercial image manipulation\nsoftware for Amigas. ImageMaster, from Black Belt Systems, is another\nwell-regarded commercial graphics package with JPEG support.\n\nThe free IJG JPEG software is available compiled for Amigas from\namiga.physik.unizh.ch (and mirror sites) in directory amiga/gfx/conv, file\nAmigaJPEGV4.lha. These programs convert JPEG to/from PPM,GIF,Targa formats.\n\nThe Amiga world is heavily infested with quick-and-dirty JPEG programs, many\nbased on an ancient beta-test version of the free IJG JPEG software (thanks\nto a certain magazine that published same on its disk-of-the-month, without\nso much as notifying the authors). Among these are "AugJPEG", "NewAmyJPEG",\n"VJPEG", and probably others I have not even heard of. In my opinion,\nanything older than IJG version 3 (March 1992) is not worth the disk space\nit\'s stored on; if you have such a program, trash it and get something newer.\n\nAtari ST:\n\nThe free IJG JPEG software is available compiled for Atari ST, TT, etc,\nfrom atari.archive.umich.edu, file /atari/Graphics/jpeg4bin.zoo.\nThese programs convert JPEG to/from PPM, GIF, Targa formats.\n\nFor monochrome ST monitors, try MGIF, which manages to achieve four-level\ngrayscale effect by flickering. Version 4.1 reads JPEG files. Available\nfrom atari.archive.umich.edu, file /atari/Graphics/mgif41b.zoo.\n\nI have not heard of any other free or shareware JPEG-capable viewers for\nAtaris, but surely there must be some by now? Pointers appreciated.\n\nAcorn Archimedes:\n\n!ChangeFSI, supplied with RISC OS 3 version 3.10, can convert from and view\nJPEG JFIF format. Provision is also made to convert images to JPEG,\nalthough this must be done from the CLI rather than by double-clicking.\n\nRecent versions (since 7.11) of the shareware program Translator can handle\nJPEG, along with about 30 other image formats. While older versions can be\nfound on some Archimedes bboards, the current version is only available by\nregistering with the author, John Kortink, Nutterbrink 31, 7544 WJ, Enschede,\nThe Netherlands. Price 35 Dutch guilders (about $22 or 10 pounds).\n\nThere\'s also a commercial product called !JPEG which provides JPEG read/write\nfunctionality and direct JPEG viewing, as well as a host of other image\nformat conversion and processing options. This is more expensive but not\nnecessarily better than the above programs. Contact: DT Software, FREEPOST,\nCambridge, UK. Tel: 0223 841099.\n\n\nPortable software for almost any system:\n\nIf none of the above fits your situation, you can obtain and compile the free\nJPEG conversion software described in 6B. You\'ll also need a viewer program.\nIf your display is 8 bits or less, any GIF viewer will do fine; if you have a\ndisplay with more color capability, try to find a viewer that can read Targa\nor PPM 24-bit image files.\n\nThere are numerous commercial JPEG offerings, with more popping up every\nday. I recommend that you not spend money on one of these unless you find\nthe available free or shareware software vastly too slow. In that case,\npurchase a hardware-assisted product. Ask pointed questions about whether\nthe product complies with the final JPEG standard and about whether it can\nhandle the JFIF file format; many of the earliest commercial releases are\nnot and never will be compatible with anyone else\'s files.\n\n\n[6B] If you are looking for source code to work with:\n\nFree, portable C code for JPEG compression is available from the Independent\nJPEG Group, which I lead. A package containing our source code,\ndocumentation, and some small test files is available from several places.\nThe "official" archive site for this source code is ftp.uu.net (137.39.1.9\nor 192.48.96.9). Look under directory /graphics/jpeg; the current release\nis jpegsrc.v4.tar.Z. (This is a compressed TAR file; don\'t forget to\nretrieve in binary mode.) You can retrieve this file by FTP or UUCP.\nIf you are on a PC and don\'t know how to cope with .tar.Z format, you may\nprefer ZIP format, which you can find at Simtel20 and mirror sites (see NOTE\nabove), file msdos/graphics/jpegsrc4.zip. This file will also be available on\nCompuServe, in the GRAPHSUPPORT forum (GO PICS), library 15, as jpsrc4.zip.\nIf you have no FTP access, you can retrieve the source from your nearest\ncomp.sources.misc archive; version 4 appeared as issues 55-72 of volume 34.\n(If you don\'t know how to retrieve comp.sources.misc postings, see the FAQ\narticle "How to find sources", referred to at the top of section 6.)\n\nThe free JPEG code provides conversion between JPEG "JFIF" format and image\nfiles in GIF, PBMPLUS PPM/PGM, Utah RLE, and Truevision Targa file formats.\nThe core compression and decompression modules can easily be reused in other\nprograms, such as image viewers. The package is highly portable; we have\ntested it on many machines ranging from PCs to Crays.\n\nWe have released this software for both noncommercial and commercial use.\nCompanies are welcome to use it as the basis for JPEG-related products.\nWe do not ask a royalty, although we do ask for an acknowledgement in\nproduct literature (see the README file in the distribution for details).\nWe hope to make this software industrial-quality --- although, as with\nanything that\'s free, we offer no warranty and accept no liability.\n\nThe Independent JPEG Group is a volunteer organization; if you\'d like to\ncontribute to improving our software, you are welcome to join.\n\n\n[7] What\'s all this hoopla about color quantization?\n\nMost people don\'t have full-color (24 bit per pixel) display hardware.\nTypical display hardware stores 8 or fewer bits per pixel, so it can display\n256 or fewer distinct colors at a time. To display a full-color image, the\ncomputer must map the image into an appropriate set of representative\ncolors. This process is called "color quantization". (This is something\nof a misnomer, "color selection" would be a better term. We\'re stuck with\nthe standard usage though.)\n\nClearly, color quantization is a lossy process. It turns out that for most\nimages, the details of the color quantization algorithm have MUCH more impact\non the final image quality than do any errors introduced by JPEG (except at\nthe very lowest JPEG quality settings).\n\nSince JPEG is a full-color format, converting a color JPEG image for display\non 8-bit-or-less hardware requires color quantization. This is true for\n*all* color JPEGs: even if you feed a 256-or-less-color GIF into JPEG, what\ncomes out of the decompressor is *not* 256 colors, but thousands of colors.\nThis happens because JPEG\'s lossiness affects each pixel a little\ndifferently, so two pixels that started with identical colors will probably\ncome out with slightly different colors. Each original color gets "smeared"\ninto a group of nearby colors. Therefore quantization is always required to\ndisplay a color JPEG on a colormapped display, regardless of the image\nsource. The only way to avoid quantization is to ask for gray-scale output.\n\n(Incidentally, because of this effect it\'s nearly meaningless to talk about\nthe number of colors used by a JPEG image. Even if you attempted to count\nthe number of distinct pixel values, different JPEG decoders would give you\ndifferent results because of roundoff error differences. I occasionally see\nposted images described as "256-color JPEG". This tells me that the poster\n(a) hasn\'t read this FAQ and (b) probably converted the JPEG from a GIF.\nJPEGs can be classified as color or gray-scale (just like photographs), but\nnumber of colors just isn\'t a useful concept for JPEG.)\n\nOn the other hand, a GIF image by definition has already been quantized to\n256 or fewer colors. (A GIF *does* have a definite number of colors in its\npalette, and the format doesn\'t allow more than 256 palette entries.)\nFor purposes of Usenet picture distribution, GIF has the advantage that the\nsender precomputes the color quantization, so recipients don\'t have to.\nThis is also the *disadvantage* of GIF: you\'re stuck with the sender\'s\nquantization. If the sender quantized to a different number of colors than\nwhat you can display, you have to re-quantize, resulting in much poorer\nimage quality than if you had quantized once from a full-color image.\nFurthermore, if the sender didn\'t use a high-quality color quantization\nalgorithm, you\'re out of luck.\n\nFor this reason, JPEG offers the promise of significantly better image quality\nfor all users whose machines don\'t match the sender\'s display hardware.\nJPEG\'s full color image can be quantized to precisely match the user\'s display\nhardware. Furthermore, you will be able to take advantage of future\nimprovements in quantization algorithms (there is a lot of active research in\nthis area), or purchase better display hardware, to get a better view of JPEG\nimages you already have. With a GIF, you\'re stuck forevermore with what was\nsent.\n\nIt\'s also worth mentioning that many GIF-viewing programs include rather\nshoddy quantization routines. If you view a 256-color GIF on a 16-color EGA\ndisplay, for example, you are probably getting a much worse image than you\nneed to. This is partly an inevitable consequence of doing two color\nquantizations (one to create the GIF, one to display it), but often it\'s\nalso due to sloppiness. JPEG conversion programs will be forced to use\nhigh quality quantizers in order to get acceptable results at all, and in\nnormal use they will quantize directly to the number of colors to be\ndisplayed. Thus, JPEG is likely to provide better results than the average\nGIF program for low-color-resolution displays as well as high-resolution ones!\n\nFinally, an ever-growing number of people have better-than-8-bit display\nhardware already: 15-bit "hi-color" PC displays, true 24-bit displays on\nworkstations and Macintoshes, etc. For these people, GIF is already\nobsolete, as it cannot represent an image to the full capabilities of their\ndisplay. JPEG images can drive these displays much more effectively.\nThus, JPEG is an all-around better choice than GIF for representing images\nin a machine-independent fashion.\n\n\n[8] How does JPEG work?\n\nThe buzz-words to know are chrominance subsampling, discrete cosine\ntransforms, coefficient quantization, and Huffman or arithmetic entropy\ncoding. This article\'s long enough already, so I\'m not going to say more\nthan that here. For technical information, see the comp.compression FAQ.\nThis is available from the news.answers archive at rtfm.mit.edu, in files\n/pub/usenet/news.answers/compression-faq/part[1-3]. If you need help in\nusing the news.answers archive, see the top of this article.\n\n\n[9] What about lossless JPEG?\n\nThere\'s a great deal of confusion on this subject. The JPEG committee did\ndefine a truly lossless compression algorithm, i.e., one that guarantees the\nfinal output is bit-for-bit identical to the original input. However, this\nlossless mode has almost nothing in common with the regular, lossy JPEG\nalgorithm, and it offers much less compression. At present, very few\nimplementations of lossless JPEG exist, and all of them are commercial.\n\nSaying "-Q 100" to the free JPEG software DOES NOT get you a lossless image.\nWhat it does get rid of is deliberate information loss in the coefficient\nquantization step. There is still a good deal of information loss in the\ncolor subsampling step. (With the V4 free JPEG code, you can also say\n"-sample 1x1" to turn off subsampling. Keep in mind that many commercial\nJPEG implementations cannot cope with the resulting file.)\n\nEven with both quantization and subsampling turned off, the regular JPEG\nalgorithm is not lossless, because it is subject to roundoff errors in\nvarious calculations. The maximum error is a few counts in any one pixel\nvalue; it\'s highly unlikely that this could be perceived by the human eye,\nbut it might be a concern if you are doing machine processing of an image.\n\nAt this minimum-loss setting, regular JPEG produces files that are perhaps\nhalf the size of an uncompressed 24-bit-per-pixel image. True lossless JPEG\nprovides roughly the same amount of compression, but it guarantees\nbit-for-bit accuracy.\n\nIf you have an application requiring lossless storage of images with less\nthan 6 bits per pixel (per color component), you may want to look into the\nJBIG bilevel image compression standard. This performs better than JPEG\nlossless on such images. JPEG lossless is superior to JBIG on images with\n6 or more bits per pixel; furthermore, JPEG is public domain (at least with a\nHuffman back end), while the JBIG techniques are heavily covered by patents.\n\n\n[10] Why all the argument about file formats?\n\nStrictly speaking, JPEG refers only to a family of compression algorithms;\nit does *not* refer to a specific image file format. The JPEG committee was\nprevented from defining a file format by turf wars within the international\nstandards organizations.\n\nSince we can\'t actually exchange images with anyone else unless we agree on\na common file format, this leaves us with a problem. In the absence of\nofficial standards, a number of JPEG program writers have just gone off to\n"do their own thing", and as a result their programs aren\'t compatible with\nanybody else\'s.\n\nThe closest thing we have to a de-facto standard JPEG format is some work\nthat\'s been coordinated by people at C-Cube Microsystems. They have defined\ntwo JPEG-based file formats:\n * JFIF (JPEG File Interchange Format), a "low-end" format that transports\n pixels and not much else.\n * TIFF/JPEG, aka TIFF 6.0, an extension of the Aldus TIFF format. TIFF is\n a "high-end" format that will let you record just about everything you\n ever wanted to know about an image, and a lot more besides :-). TIFF is\n a lot more complex than JFIF, and may well prove less transportable,\n because different vendors have historically implemented slightly different\n and incompatible subsets of TIFF. It\'s not likely that adding JPEG to the\n mix will do anything to improve this situation.\nBoth of these formats were developed with input from all the major vendors\nof JPEG-related products; it\'s reasonably likely that future commercial\nproducts will adhere to one or both standards.\n\nI believe that Usenet should adopt JFIF as the replacement for GIF in\npicture postings. JFIF is simpler than TIFF and is available now; the\nTIFF 6.0 spec has only recently been officially adopted, and it is still\nunusably vague on some crucial details. Even when TIFF/JPEG is well\ndefined, the JFIF format is likely to be a widely supported "lowest common\ndenominator"; TIFF/JPEG files may never be as transportable.\n\nA particular case that people may be interested in is Apple\'s QuickTime\nsoftware for the Macintosh. QuickTime uses a JFIF-compatible format wrapped\ninside the Mac-specific PICT structure. Conversion between JFIF and\nQuickTime JPEG is pretty straightforward, and several Mac programs are\navailable to do it (see Mac portion of section 6A). If you have an editor\nthat handles binary files, you can strip a QuickTime JPEG PICT down to JFIF\nby hand; see section 11 for details.\n\nAnother particular case is Handmade Software\'s programs (GIF2JPG/JPG2GIF and\nImage Alchemy). These programs are capable of reading and writing JFIF\nformat. By default, though, they write a proprietary format developed by\nHSI. This format is NOT readable by any non-HSI programs and should not be\nused for Usenet postings. Use the -j switch to get JFIF output. (This\napplies to old versions of these programs; the current releases emit JFIF\nformat by default. You still should be careful not to post HSI-format\nfiles, unless you want to get flamed by people on non-PC platforms.)\n\n\n[11] How do I recognize which file format I have, and what do I do about it?\n\nIf you have an alleged JPEG file that your software won\'t read, it\'s likely\nto be HSI format or some other proprietary JPEG-based format. You can tell\nwhat you have by inspecting the first few bytes of the file:\n\n1. A JFIF-standard file will start with the characters (hex) FF D8 FF E0,\n followed by two variable bytes (often hex 00 10), followed by \'JFIF\'.\n\n2. If you see FF D8 at the start, but not the rest of it, you may have a\n "raw JPEG" file. This is probably decodable as-is by JFIF software ---\n it\'s worth a try, anyway.\n\n3. HSI files start with \'hsi1\'. You\'re out of luck unless you have HSI\n software. Portions of the file may look like plain JPEG data, but they\n won\'t decompress properly with non-HSI programs.\n\n4. A Macintosh PICT file, if JPEG-compressed, will have a couple hundred\n bytes of header followed by a JFIF header (scan for \'JFIF\'). Strip off\n everything before the FF D8 and you should be able to read it.\n\n5. Anything else: it\'s a proprietary format, or not JPEG at all. If you are\n lucky, the file may consist of a header and a raw JPEG data stream.\n If you can identify the start of the JPEG data stream (look for FF D8),\n try stripping off everything before that.\n\nIn uuencoded Usenet postings, the characteristic JFIF pattern is\n\n\t"begin" line\n\tM_]C_X ...\n\nwhereas uuencoded HSI files will start with\n\n\t"begin" line\n\tM:\'-I ...\n\nIf you learn to check for the former, you can save yourself the trouble of\ndownloading non-JFIF files.\n\n\n[12] What about arithmetic coding?\n\nThe JPEG spec defines two different "back end" modules for the final output\nof compressed data: either Huffman coding or arithmetic coding is allowed.\nThe choice has no impact on image quality, but arithmetic coding usually\nproduces a smaller compressed file. On typical images, arithmetic coding\nproduces a file 5 or 10 percent smaller than Huffman coding. (All the\nfile-size numbers previously cited are for Huffman coding.)\n\nUnfortunately, the particular variant of arithmetic coding specified by the\nJPEG standard is subject to patents owned by IBM, AT&T, and Mitsubishi.\nThus *you cannot legally use arithmetic coding* unless you obtain licenses\nfrom these companies. (The "fair use" doctrine allows people to implement\nand test the algorithm, but actually storing any images with it is dubious\nat best.)\n\nAt least in the short run, I recommend that people not worry about\narithmetic coding; the space savings isn\'t great enough to justify the\npotential legal hassles. In particular, arithmetic coding *should not*\nbe used for any images to be exchanged on Usenet.\n\nThere is some small chance that the legal situation may change in the\nfuture. Stay tuned for further details.\n\n\n[13] Does loss accumulate with repeated compression/decompression?\n\nIt would be nice if, having compressed an image with JPEG, you could\ndecompress it, manipulate it (crop off a border, say), and recompress it\nwithout any further image degradation beyond what you lost initially.\nUnfortunately THIS IS NOT THE CASE. In general, recompressing an altered\nimage loses more information, though usually not as much as was lost the\nfirst time around.\n\nThe next best thing would be that if you decompress an image and recompress\nit *without changing it* then there is no further loss, i.e., you get an\nidentical JPEG file. Even this is not true; at least, not with the current\nfree JPEG software. It\'s essentially a problem of accumulation of roundoff\nerror. If you repeatedly compress and decompress, the image will eventually\ndegrade to where you can see visible changes from the first-generation\noutput. (It usually takes many such cycles to get visible change.)\nOne of the things on our to-do list is to see if accumulation of error can\nbe avoided or limited, but I am not optimistic about it.\n\nIn any case, the most that could possibly be guaranteed would be that\ncompressing the unmodified full-color output of djpeg, at the original\nquality setting, would introduce no further loss. Even such simple changes\nas cropping off a border could cause further roundoff-error degradation.\n(If you\'re wondering why, it\'s because the pixel-block boundaries move.\nIf you cropped off only multiples of 16 pixels, you might be safe, but\nthat\'s a mighty limited capability!)\n\nThe bottom line is that JPEG is a useful format for archival storage and\ntransmission of images, but you don\'t want to use it as an intermediate\nformat for sequences of image manipulation steps. Use a lossless format\n(PPM, RLE, TIFF, etc) while working on the image, then JPEG it when you are\nready to file it away. Aside from avoiding degradation, you will save a lot\nof compression/decompression time this way :-).\n\n\n[14] What are some rules of thumb for converting GIF images to JPEG?\n\nAs stated earlier, you *will* lose some amount of image information if you\nconvert an existing GIF image to JPEG. If you can obtain the original\nfull-color data the GIF was made from, it\'s far better to make a JPEG from\nthat. But if you need to save space and have only the GIF to work from,\nhere are some suggestions for getting maximum space savings with minimum\nloss of quality.\n\nThe first rule when converting a GIF library is to look at each JPEG, to\nmake sure you are happy with it, before throwing away the corresponding GIF;\nthat will give you a chance to re-do the conversion with a higher quality\nsetting if necessary. Some GIFs may be better left as GIFs, as explained in\nsection 3; in particular, cartoon-type GIFs with sixteen or fewer colors\ndon\'t convert well. You may find that a JPEG file of reasonable quality\nwill be *larger* than the GIF. (So check the sizes too.)\n\nExperience to date suggests that large, high-visual-quality GIFs are the best\ncandidates for conversion to JPEG. They chew up the most storage so offer\nthe most potential savings, and they convert to JPEG with least degradation.\nDon\'t waste your time converting any GIF much under 100 Kbytes. Also, don\'t\nexpect JPEG files converted from GIFs to be as small as those created\ndirectly from full-color originals. To maintain image quality you may have\nto let the converted files be as much as twice as big as straight-through\nJPEG files would be (i.e., shoot for 1/2 or 1/3rd the size of the GIF file,\nnot 1/4th as suggested in earlier comparisons).\n\nMany people have developed an odd habit of putting a large constant-color\nborder around a GIF image. While useless, this was nearly free in terms of\nstorage cost in GIF files. It is NOT free in JPEG files, and the sharp\nborder boundary can create visible artifacts ("ghost" edges). Do yourself\na favor and crop off any border before JPEGing. (If you are on an X Windows\nsystem, XV\'s manual and automatic cropping functions are a very painless\nway to do this.)\n\ncjpeg\'s default Q setting of 75 is appropriate for full-color input, but\nfor GIF inputs, Q settings of 85 to 95 often seem to be necessary to avoid\nimage degradation. (If you apply smoothing as suggested below, the higher\nQ setting may not be necessary.)\n\nColor GIFs of photographs or complex artwork are usually "dithered" to fool\nyour eye into seeing more than the 256 colors that GIF can actually store.\nIf you enlarge the image, you will see that adjacent pixels are often of\nsignificantly different colors; at normal size the eye averages these pixels\ntogether to produce the illusion of an intermediate color value. The\ntrouble with dithering is that, to JPEG, it looks like high-spatial-frequency\ncolor noise; and JPEG can\'t compress noise very well. The resulting JPEG\nfile is both larger and of lower image quality than what you would have\ngotten from JPEGing the original full color image (if you had it).\nTo get around this, you want to "smooth" the GIF image before compression.\nSmoothing averages together nearby pixels, thus approximating the color that\nyou thought you saw anyway, and in the process getting rid of the rapid\ncolor changes that give JPEG trouble. Appropriate use of smoothing will\noften let you avoid using a high Q factor, thus further reducing the size of\nthe compressed file, while still obtaining a better-looking output image\nthan you\'d get without smoothing.\n\nWith the V4 free JPEG software (or products based on it), a simple smoothing\ncapability is built in. Try "-smooth 10" or so when converting GIFs.\nValues of 10 to 25 seem to work well for high-quality GIFs. Heavy-handed\ndithering may require larger smoothing factors. (If you can see regular\nfine-scale patterns on the GIF image even without enlargement, then strong\nsmoothing is definitely called for.) Too large a smoothing factor will blur\nthe output image, which you don\'t want. If you are an image processing\nwizard, you can also do smoothing with a separate filtering program, such as\npnmconvol from the PBMPLUS package. However, cjpeg\'s built-in smoother is\na LOT faster than pnmconvol...\n\nThe upshot of all this is that "cjpeg -quality 85 -smooth 10" is probably a\ngood starting point for converting GIFs. But if you really care about the\nimage, you\'ll want to check the results and maybe try a few other settings.\n\n\n---------------------\n\nFor more information about JPEG in general or the free JPEG software in\nparticular, contact the Independent JPEG Group at jpeg-info@uunet.uu.net.\n\n-- \n\t\t\ttom lane\n\t\t\torganizer, Independent JPEG Group\nInternet: tgl@cs.cmu.edu\tBITNET: tgl%cs.cmu.edu@carnegie\n',
'From: rajsnr@IASTATE.EDU (S N Rajesh)\nSubject: Looking for a job as a Software Engineer\nKeywords: C & C++, GUI, XVT, Operating Systems, Computer Networking.\nReply-To: rajsnr@IASTATE.EDU (S N Rajesh)\nOrganization: Iowa State University\nLines: 194\n\nI am not sure that I am supposed to post this mail here. However\nduring the last year, while I was involved in developing graphical user\ninterface (GUI) applications, I have enjoyed being personally part of this\nnews group wherin I got some interesting information which helped me in my\nwork. I am posting my resuming hoping that people working in my area would\nmake time to look at it.\n________________________________________________________________________________\n_\n\t\t\t\t\t\t304A WestGate Hall,\n\t\t\t\t\t\tISU, Ames, IA 50011.\n\t\t\t\t\t\t(515) 294 1525\n\t\t\t\t\t\tApril 29, 1992.\n\nDear Prospective Employer:\n\nI am seeking employment as a software engineer with interests in software\ndesign and development, in which I can utilize my experience in hardware, \nC & C++ programming, graphical user interface (GUI), operating systems and\ncomputer networking.\n\nI received my Bachelors of Engineering (BE) degree in Electronics\nEngineering in 1990 and a M.S. degree in Electrical Engineering in Dec 1992 \nfrom Iowa State University. Currently I am enrolled in a M.S. in Computer\nEngineering at Iowa State University.\n\nDuring my Masters program, as a research assistant since Jan 1991, I have\npublished three papers including one in the IEEE Transactions on Magnetics.\nThese papers are a reflection of the quality of my research and my ability\nto learn new concepts quickly.\n\nI have been involved in many projects involving software developments and\nhave extensive experience programming in C, C++, Fortran and Assembly Level. \nI am also familiar with operating systems like Unix, Ultrix and MS-DOS.\nI am familiar with Motif/X programming and currently, as a research assistant,\nam involved in graphical user interface (GUI) design using the multiplatform \nGUI toolkit XVT++. My experiences also include areas such as operating systems\nand computer networks, through course work and projects. I was involved in the\nstudy of the design and development of the internals of the XINU operating\nsystem. I have also been involved in many TCP/IP programming projects in\ncomputer networking.\n\nWhile in college I learnt the importance of clear and concise communication.\nI have also learned a lot about time management. In my M.S. program I\nhave maintained a 3.70 grade average, worked 20 hours per week and\nhave enjoyed being involved in many other extra curricular activities.\n\nMy software experiences along with my hardware background (Electronics\nEngineering) would be very helpful in my career goals as a software engineer.\nI request that my qualifications may kindly be reviewed. I would like to\nhave an interview to discuss your employment needs and my career goals. \nI am eager to hear from you soon.\n\n\nSincerely\n\nS.N. Rajesh (rajsnr@iastate.edu)\n\n...........................................................................\n\t\t\t\tRESUME\n...........................................................................\n\n\t\t\t S. N. RAJESH\n\t\t __________________\n\n Work\t\t Residence\n305 Coover ISU,\t\t\t\t\t304A WestGate hall, ISU\nAmes, IA 50011 \t\t\t\tAmes, IA 50011\n \t\t\t\t\t(515) 294-1525\n\n \t E-mail: rajsnr@iastate.edu\n\nOBJECTIVE\tTo obtain a challenging position as a Software Engineer \n\t\tinvolving software design and development, in which I can\n\t\tutilize my experience in hardware, C & C++ programming, \n\t\tgraphical user interface (GUI), operating systems and \n\t\tcomputer networking.\n\nEDUCATION\tCurrently enrolled in a M.S. in Computer Engineering, Iowa state\n\t\tUniversity, Ames, Iowa 50011.\t\n\n\t\tM.S. in Electrical Engineering, Iowa State University, Ames, \n\t\tIowa 50011 (Dec 1992) \tGPA\tMajor: 3.8/4.0\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\tOverall: 3.7/4.0.\t\n\t\tThesis: Probability of Detection (POD) Models for Eddy Current\n\t\tNondestructive Evaluation (NDE) Methods. \n\t\t(Project Funded by Federal Aviation Administration (FAA))\n\n\t\tB.E. in Electronics Engineering, Bangalore University,\n \t\tBangalore, India (Jan 1990).\n\nPUBLICATIONS\tS. N. Rajesh, L. Udpa and S. S. Udpa, "Numerical Model Based\n\t\tApproach for Estimating Probability of Detection in NDE \n\t\tapplications", IEEE Transactions on Magnetics, Vol. 29,\n\t\tNo. 2, March 1993. \n\n\t\tS. N. Rajesh, L. Udpa and S. S. Udpa, "Estimation of \n Eddy Current Probability of Detection using 3D Finite Element\n\t\tModel", presented at the 19th Annual review of Progress in\n\t\tQuantitative Nondestructive Evaluation Conferance, San Diego,\n\t\tCalifornia (Jul 1992)\n\n\t\tS. N. Rajesh, L. Udpa, S. S. Udpa and N. Nakagawa, "Probability\n of Detection Models for Eddy Current NDE Methods", Presented at\n the 18th Annual Review of Progress in Quantitative\n Nondestructive Evaluation Conferance, Brunswick, ME (Jul 1991)\n\nRELEVANT * Implemention of Operating Systems * Electronic Devices and Circuits\nCOURSE * Computer Network Architecture * Pulse and Digital Circuits\nWORK * Advanced Computer Communications * Artificial Neural Networks\n * Introduction to Supercomputing * Pattern Recognition\n * Microprocessors and Computer * Digital Image Processing\n\t Organization * Digital Signal Processing\n * Computer Technology and * Integrated Circuits and Design\n\t Programming\n\nPROJECTS\t* Implementation of the fork system call on the Xinu operating\n\t\t system. Also involved in the implementation of a CPU\n\t\t scheduling algorithm taking into consideration the aging\n\t\t of processes. This project involved the study of the design\n\t\t and development of the internals of the Xinu operating system.\n\t\t* Design and development of an interrupt driven keyboard driver.\n\t\t This project involved a thorough understanding of device \n\t\t drivers.\n\t\t* Design and development of a Unix like tree structured \n\t\t directory which allows the creation of subdirectories and\n\t\t organization of files accordingly. This project included the\n\t\t implementation of routines such as mkdir, rmdir, cd, ls and\n\t\t rm to support the directory structure.\n\t\t* Analysis of methods of congestion control in computer\n networks.\n * Implementation of the Bellman-Ford routing algorithm for a\n distributed network. The communication between network nodes\n was based on UDP. This project involved programming in C++.\n\t\t* Simulation of the various digital logic functional units \n\t\t starting from the basic gates to registers, counters, adders,\n\t\t multipliers, arithmetic logic unit (ALU) and so on. The\n\t\t project involved extensive C programming in an Unix\n\t\t environment.\n\nWORK\t\tResearch Assistant, Center for NDE, Iowa State University, Ames,\nEXPERIENCE\tIA 50011 (Aug 1992-Present)\n * Work involves development of applications using graphical\n user interface (GUI) toolkits. Familiar with programming in\n a Motif/X environment. More recent work involves development\n of multiplatform GUI applications, in C++, using the portable\n\t\t GUI toolkit XVT++.\n (This project is supported by NIST (National Institute of\n Standards and Technology)).\n\n\t\tResearch Assistant, Center for NDE, Iowa State University, Ames,\n\t\tIA 50011 (Jan 1991-Aug 1992)\n\t\t* Work involved developing software for modeling electromagnetic\n\t\t NDE techniques such as the eddy current method. It also\n\t\t involved optimization of the code on the parallel computer\n\t\t Cray YMP.\n\t\t (This project was supported by FAA and involved working in\n\t\t close contact with the aircraft industry (Boeing)).\n\n\t\tTrainee Engineer, Indian Telephone Industries, Bangalore India.\n\t\t* Work involved design and development of a microprocessor\n\t\t (8085) based programmable telephone dialler used in cordless \n\t\t telephones. Involved programming of a 8085 microprocessor \n\t\t to control the pulsing actions of the relays in a telephone \n\t\t circuit (Jan-Nov 1989).\n\nCOMPUTER\tLanguages: C, C++, Fortran, Assembly Level.\nSKILLS\t\tSoftware: Motif/X, XVT, Computer Graphics (Hoops), TCP/IP \n\t\t\t programming, Image Processing Utilities, SDRC-Ideas, \t\t \t\t Autocad.\n\t\tOperating Systems: Unix, Stellix, Ultrix, MS-DOS.\n\t\tSystems: DEC Series, HP and Sun Workstations, Macintosh, \n\t\t\t Stellar.\n\t\tParallel Systems: Cray YMP, IBM 3090J, MasPar, N-Cube.\n\nHONOURS AND \t* Iowa State University Graduate College Scholarship \nACTIVITIES \t (Jan 1991-Present)\n\t\t* Ranked 42 out of over 20,000 students in Bachelors of\n\t\t Engineering Entrance Examination ensuring full\n\t\t scholarship, from the state, to pursue my Bachelors\'s degree.\n\t\t* Current member of IEEE\n\nREFERENCES\tAvailable upon request.\n\t\n\n\n\t\t\n\n\n\n\n\n\n \n\n\n',
'From: livesey@solntze.wpd.sgi.com (Jon Livesey)\nSubject: Re: "Cruel" (was Re: <Political Atheists?)\nOrganization: sgi\nLines: 20\nDistribution: world\nNNTP-Posting-Host: solntze.wpd.sgi.com\n\nIn article <1r5emjINNmk@gap.caltech.edu>, keith@cco.caltech.edu (Keith Allan Schneider) writes:\n|> kmr4@po.CWRU.edu (Keith M. Ryan) writes:\n|> \n|> >But, this just shows then that painful execution is not considered \n|> >"cruel" and unusual punishment. This shows that "cruel" as used in the \n|> >constitution does NOT refer to whether or not the punishment causes physical \n|> >pain.\n|> >Rather, it must be a different meaning.\n|> \n|> I don\'t think so. Although some forms of execution are painful (the electric\n|> chair looks particularly so), I think the pain is relatively short-lived.\n|> Drawing and quartering, on the other hand, looks very painful, and the\n|> victim wouldn\'t die right away (he\'d bleed to death, I\'d imagine).\n\nSo what do we have now, an integral over pain X time?\n\nI get to lash you with a wet noodle for ever, but I only get to\ncut you up with a power saw if I\'m quick about it?\n\njon.\n',
'From: bobbe@vice.ICO.TEK.COM (Robert Beauchaine)\nSubject: Re: Who has read Rushdie\'s _The Satanic Verses_?\nOrganization: Tektronix Inc., Beaverton, Or.\nLines: 21\n\nIn article <EDM.93Apr20145436@gocart.twisto.compaq.com> edm@twisto.compaq.com (Ed McCreary) writes:\n>\n>While we\'re on the topic of books, has anyone else noticed that Paine\'s\n>"The Age of Reason" is hard to find. I\'ve been wanting to pick up\n>a copy for a while, but not bad enough to mail order it. I\'ve noticed\n>though that none of the bookstores I go to seem to carry it. I thought\n>this was supposed to be classic. What\'s the deal?\n>--\n\n Me too. Our local used book store is the second largest on the\n West Coast, and I couldn\'t find a copy there. I guess atheists\n hold their bibles in as much esteem as the theists.\n\n/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\ \n\nBob Beauchaine bobbe@vice.ICO.TEK.COM \n\nThey said that Queens could stay, they blew the Bronx away,\nand sank Manhattan out at sea.\n\n^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^\n',
'From: trb3@Ra.MsState.Edu (Tony R. Boutwell)\nSubject: VIDEO SPEED\nOrganization: Mississippi State University\nLines: 18\nNNTP-Posting-Host: ra.msstate.edu\nKeywords: anim, ibm, 3d\n\nI am using an ibm dx-50 with EISA and local bus....and I need to get a\nlocal bus video card....\n\nThe only hitch is that I need one that will allow me to do the fastest\nanims (or flics) from ram. I have 64-megs of ram in 16-meg simms\n\nI am using 3D-Studio from Autodesk and Imagine from Impulse...\nThey both write out in the .FLC format....\n\nSo does anyone know what would be the best card for showing fast anims\nfrom ram.... ie. like the orchid, Diamond Stealth Viper, ATI....etc\n\nany help would be appreciated.... ( I am trying to circumvent the single-\nframe route)\n\nemail me at trb3@ra.msstate.edu\nor just post back up here...thanks\n\n',
"From: mrbulli@btoy1.rochester.NY.US (Mr. Bulli (private account))\nSubject: Re: Vasectomy: Health Effects on Women?\nReply-To: mrbulli@btoy1.rochester.NY.US\nOrganization: Private UUCP site\nX-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL9]\nLines: 25\n\nOn 28 Apr 93 20:54:04 GMT joshm@yang.earlham.edu wrote:\n: In article <1993Apr27.110440.5069@nic.csu.net>, eskagerb@nermal.santarosa.edu (Eric Skagerberg) writes:\n: > Does anyone know of any studies done on the long-term health effects of a\n: > man's vasectomy on his female partner?\n: > \n: > ...\n: I've heard of NO studies, but speculation:\n\n: Why on _earth_ would there be any effect on women's health? That's about \n: the most absurd idea I've heard since Ted Kaldis's claim that no more than \n: 35,000 people would march on Washington.\n\n: Ok, _one_ point: Greatly reduced chance of pregnancy. But that's it.\n\n: --Josh\n\nWell, there might be another: Since I'm sterile my wife can enjoy sex \nwithout fear of getting pregnant.\n--\n ______ __ _ _\n / / / ) // // \n / /_ __________ __. _ /--< . . // // o ____ _, _ __\n(_/ / /_(_) / / / <_(_/|_/_) /___/_(_/_</_</_<_/ / <_(_)_</_/ (_\n UUCP: ..rutgers!ur-valhalla!btoy1!mrbulli /| Compu$erve:\n Internet: mrbulli@btoy1.rochester.NY.US |/ 76535,2221\n",
'From: psgwe01@sdc.boeing.com (Gerald Edgar)\nSubject: Re: Viewing JPEG files\nKeywords: Windows Viewers\nDistribution: na\nOrganization: Boeing Computer Services (ESP), Seattle, WA\nLines: 9\nNntp-Posting-Host: crystal\n\nThere are JPEG viewers that are windows based and therefore need no hardware\nspecific drivers beyond those provided in windows. I got mine from the Library\nof Congress in connection with their online exhibit of books from the Vatican\nlibrary. See a previous message in this newgroup about that.\n\nGerald Edgar\ngwe3409@atc.boeing.com\n"The opinions expressed in this not may not represent those of his employer"\n\n',
"From: levin@bbn.com (Joel B Levin)\nSubject: Re: BIOLOGICAL ALCHEMY\nLines: 19\nNNTP-Posting-Host: fred.bbn.com\n\nmcelwre@cnsvax.uwec.edu writes:\n\n| \n\n| BIOLOGICAL ALCHEMY\n| \n| ( ANOTHER Form of COLD FUSION )\n\nGee, I'd FORGOTTEN about THIS NUT.\n\n| UN-altered REPRODUCTION and DISSEMINATION of this \n| IMPORTANT Information is ENCOURAGED. \n\n\n| Robert E. McElwaine\n| B.S., Physics and Astronomy, UW-EC\n\nAnd we KNOW (CAN PROVE) what B.S. stands for in this case.\n\n",
'From: kcochran@nyx.cs.du.edu (Keith "Justified And Ancient" Cochran)\nSubject: Re: Where are they now?\nX-Disclaimer: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University\n\tof Denver for the Denver community. The University has neither\n\tcontrol over nor responsibility for the opinions of users.\nOrganization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept.\nLines: 15\n\nIn article <1r8ou3$41u@horus.ap.mchp.sni.de> frank@D012S658.uucp (Frank O\'Dwyer) writes:\n>In article <1993Apr22.070854.18213@nuscc.nus.sg> cmtan@iss.nus.sg (Tan Chade Meng - dan) writes:\n>#I\'ll be leaving in June. That\'s because I\'m going back to my university\n>#& alt.atheism is banned there (stupid theist intolerance). Sad isn\'t it. \n>#Anybody has any idea how I can circumvent this problem?\n>\n[Frank\'s solution deleted.]\n\nIf you have access to telnet, contact nyx.cs.du.edu. It\'s a public access\nUnix system, completly free, and all you need to for access is a verifiable\nform of ID (I think he requires a notarized copy of a picture, or a check, or\nsome such).\n--\n=kcochran@nyx.cs.du.edu | B(0-4) c- d- e++ f- g++ k(+) m r(-) s++(+) t | TSAKC=\n=My thoughts, my posts, my ideas, my responsibility, my beer, my pizza. OK???=\n',
'From: livesey@solntze.wpd.sgi.com (Jon Livesey)\nSubject: Re: Societally acceptable behavior\nOrganization: sgi\nLines: 30\nDistribution: world\nNNTP-Posting-Host: solntze.wpd.sgi.com\n\nIn article <C5ws1s.7ns@news.cso.uiuc.edu>, cobb@alexia.lis.uiuc.edu (Mike Cobb) writes:\n|> In <1r4ioh$44t@fido.asd.sgi.com> livesey@solntze.wpd.sgi.com (Jon Livesey) \n|> writes:\n|> > |>In article <C5qGM3.DL8@news.cso.uiuc.edu>, cobb@alexia.lis.uiuc.edu (Mike \n>|> Cobb) writes:\n|> >|> \n|> >|> This doesn\'t seem right. If I want to kill you, I can because that is \n|> what I\n|> >|> decide?\n|> \n|> >Sounds as though you are confused between "what I want" and "what\n|> >I think is morally right".\n|> \n|> >jon.\n|> \n|> \n|> What do you mean? Would your idea still apply if I said I think it is ok to \n|> kill you because that is what I decided?\n\nWhat I mean is what I said. "What I want" does not automatically\ntranslate into "what I think is right." That is, it does not \ntranslate that way for me.\n\nIf you reply that "I think it is ok to kill you because that is what \nI decided" then what that means is that for you "What I want" does\ntranslate into "what I think is right".\n\nIt just doesn\'t translate that way for me.\n\njon.\n',
"From: goldstej@bag_end.pad.otc.com.au (Johnathon Goldstein)\nSubject: Bates eye-exercises\nOrganization: AOTC Limited\nLines: 23\n\nHave I mailed this to the correct newsgroup(s)? Are there other newsgroup(s)\nwhich cover the following topic?\n--------\n\nHas anyone with myopia (short-sightedness) ever done the Bates eye-exercises?\n\nIf so, could you please e-mail me the following information:\n\n\t- age and state of sight before exercises were commenced;\n\n\t- type, frequency, and length of time spent on exercises performed;\n\n\t- improvements noticed immediately after performing exercises;\n\n\t- length of period before any improved sight deteriorates;\n\nThanks in advance for any replies. I'll summarise and post results if there's\nenough interest.\n\n - Jonathan Goldstein\n\n-- \nJonathan Goldstein goldstej@nms.otc.com.au +61 2 339 3683\n",
"From: gvanvugh@cs.uct.ac.za (Gerhard van Vught)\nSubject: Re: Viewing JPEG files\nArticle-I.D.: cs.C68Mnq.FCq\nOrganization: Computer Science Department, University of Cape Town\nLines: 36\n\nIn <1993Apr28.202500.3384@ucbeh.san.uc.edu> lwilson@ucbeh.san.uc.edu writes:\n\n>Can I view JPEG files without special hardware?\n> \n> Lucy Wilson, Access Services Librarian\n> College of Engineering, University of Cincinnati\n\nYup.\n\nMost JPEG viewers seem to require specific video drivers since they support\nonly specific video cards. Some have the standard IBM BIOS video support for\nthe VGA 320x200 256 colour mode, but they leave out the other cards such as\nthe Hercules monochrome card (which by the way can give very good picture\nquality if your dithering works right).\n\nI can't remember the name of a JPEG viewer since I usually convert JPEG's to\nGIF's before viewing them. But some require VESA driver for the video cards.\nYou don't need any special hardware to view JPEG's except perhaps for a VGA\ncard and maybe a 286+ processor. Most people these days program for 286+\ncomputers and neglect the rest of the 86 processors (8086, 8088). I have a\n8088 clone (a NEC V20 processor) and a Hercules card, I have had to write\nsome programs so that they will view GIF's and animations for the VGA and other\ncolour graphics boards on my monochrome Hercules card. I use Floyd-Steinberg\ndithers and have found that if one does something neat with the colour palette\nthe resulting dithered image gives much greater detail than it normally would\nwhen viewed on other monochrome systems. CompuShow 8.50 has FS dithering but\nit does the standard thing with the image palette before dithering, my way\ngives a brighter more detailed image.\n\nAnyway, enough of my rambling in the wrong direction. The final point is, as\nfar as I know, you don't need extra hardware to view JPEG's other than the\nVGA (and perhaps a 286 or better)\n\nHave a day!\n\nGerry.\n",
'From: wolfram@rbg.informatik.th-darmstadt.de (Wolfram Kresse)\nSubject: XV for DOS: what\'s the problem?\nOrganization: TU Darmstadt\nLines: 31\nDistribution: world\nNNTP-Posting-Host: rbhp21.rbg.informatik.th-darmstadt.de\n\nI downloaded the file xv221exe.zip from the site someone posted here.\nIt contained the files:\n CJPEG.EXE\n DJPEG.EXE\n XV.EXE\n\nWhen I tried to run it, it just said \n"Couldn\'t run go32.exe"\nand halts.\n\nWhat\'s the matter with this? \nAre there some files missing in the .zip?\nWhat is go32.exe?\n\nany help appreciated.\n\nbye,\n\nWolfram\n\n--\n\n+-------+---------------------------------------------------------------+\n| |Wolfram Kresse * E-Mail: wolfram@rbg.informatik.th-darmstadt.de|\n| ~ ~ +--------------------------+---------------+--------------------+\n| + + |"Meeneemeeneemeenee" |CU l8r, LE g8r!|\n| I |"Yes,that\'s right,Tweeky."+---------------+\n| _____ +-----+----+---------------+\n| U | 8^) | =) |\n+-------+-----+----+\n\n',
"From: doyle+@pitt.edu (Howard R Doyle)\nSubject: Re: Umbilical Hernia\nArticle-I.D.: blue.10229\nOrganization: University of Pittsburgh\nLines: 21\n\nIn article <1993Apr27.060740.3068@shannon.ee.wits.ac.za> gary@concave.cs.wits.ac.za (Gary Taylor) writes:\n>Could anyone give me information on Umbilical hernias.\n>The patient is over weight and has a protruding hernia.\n>\n>Surgery may be risky due to the obesity.\n>What other remedies could I try?\n\n\nUnless the patient has a very short life expectancy, the possible complications\nfrom a hernia that hasn't been repaired far outweigh the risks of surgery.\nThe risks of surgery, anyway, are minimal. Unless they are exceedingly large,\nhernias can be fixed under local anesthesia. \nDon't forget that hernias are one the leading causes of small bowel obstruction.\nAnd the smaller the hernia is, the higher the chances that a loop of bowel will\nbecome incarcerated or strangulated.\n\n\n===============================\n\nHoward Doyle\ndoyle+@pitt.edu\n",
'From: matess@gsusgi1.gsu.edu (Eliza Strickler)\nSubject: I donwloaded a .bin file from a unix machine - now what?\nOrganization: Georgia State University\nLines: 17\n\nI just donwloaded a *.bin file from a unix machine which is\nsupposed to be converted to a MAC format. Does anyone know \nwhat I need to do to this file to get it into any Dos, Mac\nor Unix readable format. Someone mentioned fetch on the unix\nmachine - is this correct? Could someone explain the .bin\nformat a little?\n\nThanks,\n\nElizabeth\n-- \n\n\n\\|/--_ -_- ---- ### _- ----------------------\n-0 -_- -- -__ %~- ____#0 _- Elizabeth Strickler\n|\\ ^ 0\\~ /\\ /\\ - \n|_(___/ \\_ ||_________/ _/ |_/ \\_ matess@gsusgi1.gsu.edu \n',
"From: qwert@hardy.u.washington.edu (The QwertMeister)\nSubject: POV/TGA\nOrganization: University of Washington, Seattle\nLines: 10\nDistribution: world\nReply-To: qwert@u.washington.edu\nNNTP-Posting-Host: hardy.u.washington.edu\n\nI'm having a slight problem with the POV raytracer. I'm not sure if\nthis is the correct group to post to or not. I create .tga files on\na unix machine using pov. Then when i download them to display on my pc,\nthey're listed as bad files. But when I create the file on my pc, it displays\nfine. Are unix .tga's incompatible with the pc? An easy solution to this\nproblem would be a unix targa->gif converter. Anyone know where I could\nfind one? Any help on this subject is appreciated. \n\n- Kevin\n\n",
"From: lipofsky@zach.fit.edu (Judy Lipofsky (ACS))\nSubject: Re: Krillean Photography\nNntp-Posting-Host: zach.fit.edu\nOrganization: Florida Institute of Technology, Melbourne, FL USA\nLines: 33\n\nIn article <1993Apr26.120417.22328@linus.mitre.org> gpivar@mitre.org(The Pancake Emporium) writes:\n>In article <1993Apr22.211005.21578@scorch.apana.org.au>, bill@scorch.apana.org.au (Bill Dowding) writes:\n>|> todamhyp@charles.unlv.edu (Brian M. Huey) writes:\n>|> \n>|> >I think that's the correct spelling..\n>|> >\tI am looking for any information/supplies that will allow\n>|> >do-it-yourselfers to take Krillean Pictures. I'm thinking\n>|> >that education suppliers for schools might have a appartus for\n>|> >sale, but I don't know any of the companies. Any info is greatly\n>|> >appreciated.\n>|> \n>|> Krillean photography involves taking pictures of minute decapods resident in \n>|> the seas surrounding the antarctic. Or pictures taken by them, perhaps.\n>|> \n>|> Bill from oz\n>|> \n>\n>\n>Bill,\n>No flame intended but you're way, way off base. In simple terms Kirilian\n>photography registers the electromagnetical fields around objects, in simple,\n>it takes pictures of your aura.\n>|> \n>\n>-- \n>Greg \n>\n>-- Be still, be silent...the rest is easy. --\n\nDear Bill,\nI think you forgot the smileys. SOME of us got the joke!\n\n\n",
'From: sun075!Gerry.Palo@uunet.uu.net (Gerry Palo)\nSubject: Re: Christianity and repeated lives\nLines: 73\n\nIn article <May.11.02.38.37.1993.28288@athos.rutgers.edu> KEVXU@cunyvm.bitnet wr\nites:\n>While this is essentially a discussion of reincarnation in the context of\n>Christianity Gerry Palo has made some comparisons to Asian religious\n>beliefs on this topic which have simplified the Asian idea of karma\n>to the point of misrepresentation.\n>\nI realized that my generalizations would probably have problems\nunder scrutiny from various Asian points of view. They need to be \ndiscussed in detail, indeed. But for the purposes of this newsgroup \nand thread thus far and in this newsgroup, I risked oversimpli-\nfication. My main purpose was to emphasize that I was not coming\nfrom a Buddhist or Hindu point of view. As you observed, the\nmain context is that of Christianity. But by all means, add comments\nand corrections as you find them.\n\nI wrote a longer reply addressing some of your points, but decided\nto not post it. Perhaps it would be more appropriate for soc.religion.\neastern. Instead I just add the following couple of items about karma \nand reincarnation as I see the matter from an anthroposophical and \na Christian point of view.\n\n1. Karma is not simple reward and punishment dealt out by a "judging\n deity".\n\n2. Reincarnation is not the same as being born again.\n\n3. Reincarnation is not the same as the resurrection of the body.\n\n4. Reincarnation and karma do not contradict the fundamental teachings\n of Christianity about God, the fall, the being. incarnation, death,\n and resurrection of Christ, his coming again, sin, grace, forgiveness, \n salvation, and the last judgement.\n\n>Isn\'t Origen usually cited as the most prestigious proponent of reincarnation\n>among Christian thinkers? What were his views, and how did he relate them\n>to the Christian scriptures?\n>\n>Jack Carroll\n\nOrigen\'s work was mostly lost. He was not anathematized, to my knowledge, \nbut his writing comes down largely in fragments and quotations from enemies.\nPerhaps someone else can comment on Origen. I don\'t know if there\nis a specific statement about reincarnation from him, but from what I do\nknow about him he probably did hold to the teaching in one form or another.\n\nI don\'t know too much about the history of the idea of reincarnation in\nthe Church. However, I heard an interesting story about Pope John Paul II\nfrom an astronomer who teaches at the University of Cracow. The Pope likes\nto go to Poland for a scientific conference every couple of years so he\ncan relax and talk Polish to friends and fellow countrymen. My acquaintance,\nan anthroposophist, related the fact that Woitila knew about Steiner and\nAnthroposophy from his early days. Before he became a priest he was an\nactor in a dramatic company in Cracow whose leader was a pupil of Steiner\nand based his acting and directing methods on Steiner\'s indications. Part\nof the work was the study of the basic works of anthroposophy. Well,\ngoing to this conference with him a few years ago, the astronomer and another\nPolish anthroposophist thought they would ask the Pope what he thought about\nAnthroposophy. They chickened out at the last minute, but one of them did ask\nhim what he thought about reincarnation. The Pope smiled and said, \n"Actually there have been quite a few good Catholics who believed in \nreincarnation," and he proceeded to name several from the earliest times\nto modern times. Then he changed the subject. My Polish friend did not\nsay whether Origen was among those he mentioned.\n\nGerry Palo (73237.2006@compuserve.com) \n\n[As far as I know Origen himself was not anathematized. He was\ncontroversial, but avoided outright condemnation during his lifetime.\nHowever some of his views were condemned at a Council in Alexandria in\n400 and two councils in Constantinople in 543 and 553. I am fairly\nsure the preexistence of souls is one of the doctrines condemned.\n--clh]\n',
'From: sherman@unx.sas.com (Chris Sherman)\nSubject: Re: POVray : tga -> rle\nNntp-Posting-Host: workroom.unx.sas.com\nOrganization: SAS Institute Inc.\nLines: 77\n\nIn <1rkkb6$gec@st-james.comp.vuw.ac.nz> Craig.Humphrey@comp.vuw.ac.nz (Craig Andrew Humphrey) writes:\n\n\n>In article <ltqp28INNpa7@pageboy.cs.utexas.edu>, jhpark@cs.utexas.edu (Jihun Park) writes:\n>>Hello,\n>>I have some problem in converting tga file(generated by POVray) to\n>>rle file. When I convert, I do not get any warning message. But\n>>if I use xloadimage/getx11, something is wrong.\n\n>[edited]\n\n>>I know that I need to install ppmtorle and tgatoppm, but I do not spend\n>>time to install them. Even I do not want to generate .rgb from POVray\n>>and then convert them to rle, if possible.(.rgb to rle works, but\n>>it will mess up my directory with so many files, and it needs 2 more\n>>steps to finally convert to rle file. say cat | rawtorle | rleflip )\n>>Does any body out there have same experience/problems ?\n\n\n>Well for starters, why use rle files? \n\nExactly...\n\nI didn\'t want to mess with tga or rle. So I wrote the following script. \nAll you need is the very standard set of pbm utilities. \n\nThis script is a .pov to .jpg converter. Just run it like this:\n\n pov2jpg 1280 1024 fred.pov \n\nYou will need to modify the path\'s in the script to reflect where you put\npovray and its include files. If you have a problem with disk space, you\ncan use named pipes instead of temporary files.\n\nI hope you find it useful...\n\n----------------------------------------------------------------------------\n\n#!/bin/sh\n\nif [ $# -lt 3 ] ; then\n echo "usage: $0 width height sourcefile.pov other_options"\n exit\nfi\n\nwidth=$1\nheight=$2\ndatafile=$3\nshift 3\n\n#basedatafile=`echo $datafile | sed -e "s/\\(.*\\)\\.pov/\\1/"`\n\nthedatafile=`basename $datafile` \nbasedatafile=`basename $datafile .pov` \ndirdatafile=`dirname $datafile` \n\ncd $dirdatafile\n/afs/rnd.sas.com/u/sherman/pov/povsrc/build/povray \\\n +l/afs/rnd.sas.com/u/sherman/pov/povscn/include \\\n +o/tmp/data$$ +w${width} +h${height} +fr +i${thedatafile} $*\n\necho " "\nrawtopgm $width $height < /tmp/data$$.grn > /tmp/green$$\nrawtopgm $width $height < /tmp/data$$.red > /tmp/red$$\nrawtopgm $width $height < /tmp/data$$.blu > /tmp/blue$$\nrgb3toppm /tmp/red$$ /tmp/green$$ /tmp/blue$$ | cjpeg > ${basedatafile}.jpg \nrm /tmp/red$$ /tmp/green$$ /tmp/blue$$ /tmp/data$$.grn /tmp/data$$.red \\\n /tmp/data$$.blu\necho "Wrote output to ${basedatafile}.jpg"\n\n---------------------------------------------------------------------------\n\n--\n ____/ / / __ / _ _/ ____/\n / / / / / / / Chris Sherman\n / ___ / _/ / /\n _____/ __/ __/ __/ _\\ _____/ _____/ sherman@unx.sas.com\n',
'From: jgreen@trumpet.calpoly.edu (James Thomas Green)\nSubject: Re: "So help you God" in court?\nOrganization: California Polytechnic State University, San Luis Obispo\nLines: 11\n\n\nI\'ve heard that in California they ask you to swear without any\nmention of a god. What states actually include "god" in the\ncourtroom oath?\n\n\n\n/~~~(-: James T. Green :-)~~~~(-: jgreen@oboe.calpoly.edu :-)~~~\\ \n| "At all times and in all nations, |\n| the priest has been hostile to liberty." |\n| <Thomas Jefferson> |\n',
'From: Eugene.Bigelow@ebay.sun.com (Geno )\nSubject: Re: The doctrine of Original Sin\nReply-To: Eugene.Bigelow@ebay.sun.com\nOrganization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.\nLines: 19\n\n>If babies are not supposed to be baptised then why doesn\'t the Bible\n>ever say so. It never comes right and says "Only people that know\n>right from wrong or who are taught can be baptised."\n\nThis is not a very sound argument for baptising babies. It assumes that\nif the Bible doesn\'t say specifically that you don\'t need to do something,\nthen that must mean that you do need to do it. I know there\'s a specific\nterm for this form of logic, but it escapes me right now. However, if it\nwere sound, then you should be able to apply it this way; If the Bible\ndoesn\'t specifically say that something is wrong, then it must be OK,\nwhich, coincidentally, leads perfectly into a question I\'ve often pondered.\nIf slavery is immoral (which I believe it is, can I assume that everyone\nelse in this group does too?), why doesn\'t Jesus or any of the apostles\nspeak out against it? Owning slaves was common practice back then. Paul\nspeaks about everything else that is immoral. He apparently thought it\nwas important enough to talk about things like not being a drunkard. Why\ndoesn\'t anyone mention slavery? If God\'s morals are eternal and don\'t\nchange like the morals of society, then it must have been just as immoral then\nas it is today.\n',
'Subject: DNA Helix\nFrom: tlynch@nermal.santarosa.edu (Tim Lynch)\nOrganization: Santa Rosa Junior College, Santa Rosa, CA\nNntp-Posting-Host: nermal.santarosa.edu\nX-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]\nLines: 3\n\nLooking for a TIFF/EPS of a DNA Helix. E-mail any auggestions, please.\n\n\n',
"From: dbaker@utkvx.utk.edu (Baker, David)\nSubject: Hypodermic Syringe\nNews-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41 \nOrganization: University of Tennessee Computing Center\nLines: 13\n\n\n\nWhile I don't have an answer for you, I reckon Blaise Pascal is generally\ncredited with inventing the syringe per se. I don't know much about the\nneedles; however, I do know of a southwest Virginia country doctor who\nsome thrity or more years ago invented, patented, used, and sold a syringe/\nhypodermic needle combination that retracted, injected with the flip of a\ntrigger, then retracted, giving a near-painless injection. The fellow was\nDr. Daniel Gabriel, and it was termed the Gabriel--somebody else syringe. \nDid you come across that one. (Plastic, disposable syringes came onto the\nmarket about that time and his product went by the wayside, to my knowledge.)\n\n\n",
'From: hoss@panix.com (Felix the Cat)\nSubject: Re: med school\nOrganization: PANIX Public Access Unix, NYC\nLines: 38\nX-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]\n\nJohn Carey (jcarey@news.weeg.uiowa.edu) wrote:\n: Actually I am entering vet school next year, but the question is \n: relevant for med students too.\n\n: Memorizing large amounts has never been my strong point academically.\n: Since this is a major portion of medical education -- anatomy, \n: histology, pathology, pharmacology, are for the most part mass \n: memorization -- I am a little concerned. As I am sure most \n: med students are.\n\n: Can anyone suggest techniques for this type of memorization? I \n: have had reasonable success with nemonics and memory tricks like\n: thinking up little stories to associate unrelated things. But I have\n: never applied them to large amounts of "data".\n\n: Has anyone had luck with any particular books, memory systems, or\n: cheap software? \n\n: Can you suggest any helpful organizational techniques? Being an\n: older student who returned to school this year, organization (another\n: one of my weak points) has been a major help to my success.\n\n: Please no griping about how all you have to do is "learn" the material\n: conceptually. I have no problem with that, it is one of my strong \n: points. But you can\'t get around the fact that much of medicine is\n: rote memorization. \n\n: Thanks for your help.\nThe only suggestion i can think of off the top of my head is get a large\nsupply of index cards and memorize small amounts of info at a time, making\nflash cards and quesitons. Everytime i get a question wrong I always\nmanage to get the damn thing right the next time \n\n-- \n /\\ _ /\\ | Felix The Cat\n | 0 0 |-------\\== The Wonderful, Wonderful Cat! \n \\==@==/\\ ____\\ | ===============================\n Meow!--- \\_-_/ || || hoss@panix.com\n',
'From: faith@world.std.com (Seth W McMan)\nSubject: Re: homosexual issues in Christianity\nOrganization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA\nLines: 34\n\nIn article <May.11.02.36.34.1993.28074@athos.rutgers.edu> mserv@mozart.cc.iup.edu (Mail Server) writes:\n\n>I can see that some of the above verses do not clearly address the issues, \n>however, a couple of them seem as though they do not require "incredibly \n>perverse interpretations" in order to be seen as condemning homosexuality.\n...\n>Would someone care to comment on the fact that the above seems to say\n>fornicators will not inherit the kingdom of God? How does this apply\n>to homosexuals? I understand "fornication" to be sex outside of\n>marriage. Is this an accurate definition? Is there any such thing as\n>same-sex marriage in the Bible? My understanding has always been that\n>the New Testament blesses sexual intercourse only between a husband\n>and his wife. I am, however, willing to listen to Scriptural evidence\n>to the contrary.\n\nIf we take things this literally then we must also forbid women from\nspeaking in church. Paul while led by the holy spirit was human and could\nerr. I find it interesting that CHRIST never discussed the issue of\nhomosexuality, certainly it existed back then and if it was a serious\ntransgression CHRIST would have condemned it. \nI find it disturbing that the modern church spends its energy trying\nto stamp out something that CHRIST didn\'t consider worth a single word\nof condemnation. CHRIST repeatedly warns us against judgement. \nDon\'t we risk "judgement in equal measure" when we condemn people who \nGOD himself did not judge when he walked on the earth?\n\n-- \n | The love of CHRIST is contagious! \n --+-- \n | \n\n[I should not that many of our readers do in fact advocate forbiding\nwomen from speaking in church. This is an issue we have discussed\nin the past, and I\'m not interested in redoing. --clh]\n',
"From: Kent.Dalton@FtCollinsCO.NCR.COM (Kent.Dalton)\nSubject: Re: PoV Ray Related Group NEEDED\n\t<1t0maaINNo56@darkstar.UCSC.EDU> <C760AJ.Kxv@cs.vu.nl>\nOrganization: NCR Microelectronics, Ft. Collins, CO\nLines: 36\nIn-reply-to: wlieftin@cs.vu.nl's message of 17 May 93 09:42:18 GMT\n\n>>>>> On 17 May 93 09:42:18 GMT, wlieftin@cs.vu.nl (Liefting W) said:\n\n\tLiefting> hed@cats.ucsc.edu (Magic Fingers) writes:\n\n\n>In article <1993May13.011926.4728@exucom.com> cyberman@exucom.com (Stephen R.\n>Phillips) writes:\n\n>If it takes making it an alt group, then why not? I've been following this\n>thread for, what has it been, two months now?\n\nLiefting> The alt.* hierarchie is created for 2 purposes: 1. For\nLiefting> groups which do not fit under the comp.* or other 'official'\nLiefting> hierarchies 2. For the fast creation of hot new newsgroups\nLiefting> like alt.gulf.war\n\nLiefting> Because there is no voting process or any other control\nLiefting> facilities, sites are free to decide not to carry (some of)\nLiefting> the alt groups.\n\nLiefting> Therefore, it is (I think) desirable to try to create\nLiefting> comp.graphics. {raytrace, rendering or whatever} and not an\nLiefting> alt-group\n\nPlus, *many* sites, (especially many .com sites) do not carry any alt\nnewsgroups. (We don't for example.) A comp.* group will get a much broader\ndistribution and would be useful to many more people. Plus the topic is\nimportant/popular enough to warrant its own group, IMHO.\n--\n/**************************************************************************/\n/* Kent Dalton * EMail: Kent.Dalton@FtCollinsCO.NCR.COM */\n/* NCR Microelectronics * Phone: (303) 223-5100 X-319 */ \n/* 2001 Danfield Ct. MS470A * FAX: (303) 226-9556 */\n/* Fort Collins, Colorado 80525 * */\n/**************************************************************************/\nDoes someone from PEORIA have a SHORTER ATTENTION span than me?\n",
'From: ing1023@ee.up.ac.za (ING1023)\nSubject: Vatican library\nOrganization: Electrical and Computer Engineering, University of Pretoria\nLines: 8\nNNTP-Posting-Host: mccartney.ee.up.ac.za\n\n\n\n The Vatican library recently made a tour of the US.\n Can anyone help me in finding a FTP site where this collection is \n available.\n\n Thanx in advance\n J. Watson\n',
'Subject: Re: Who has read Rushdie\'s _The Satanic Verses_?\nFrom: sham@cs.arizona.edu (Shamim Zvonko Mohamed)\nOrganization: U of Arizona CS Dept, Tucson\nSummary: I have!\nLines: 58\n\nIn article <1r1cl7INNknk@bozo.dsinc.com> perry@dsinc.com (Jim Perry) writes:\n>Anyway, since I seem to be the only one following this particular line\n>of discussion, I wonder how many of the rest of the readership have\n>read this book? What are your thoughts on it? \n\nI read it when it first came out, and the controversy broke. Put my name\non the waiting list at the library (that way if the book was really\noffensive, none of my money would find its way to the author or\npublisher), and read it, "cover to cover" (to use a phrase that seems\npopular here right now).\n\nAnd I *liked* it. The writing style was a little hard to get used to, but\nit was well worth the effort. Coming from a similar background (Rushdie\ngrew up in Bombay in a muslim family, and moved to England; I grew up in\nNew Delhi), it made a strong impression on me. (And he used many of the\nstrange constructions of Indian English: the "yaar" at the end of a\nsentence, "Butbutbut," the occasional hindi phrase, etc.)\n\nAt the time I still "sorta-kinda" thought of myself as a muslim, and I\ncouldn\'t see what the flap was all about. It seemed clear to me that this\nwas allegory. It was clear that he described some local prostitutes who\ntook on the names and personae of Muhammed\'s wives, and had not (as my\ngrandfather thundered) implied that Muhammed\'s wives were prostitutes; in\nshort, every angry muslim that had read even part of the book seemed to\nhave missed the point completely. (And I won\'t mention the fact that the\nmost militant of them had never even seen the book. Oops, I just did!)\n\nPerhaps in a deep sense, the book is insulting to Islam, because it\nexposes the silliness of revealed religion - why does an omnipotent deity\nneed an agent? She can come directly to me, can\'t she? How do we know that\nMuhammed didn\'t just go out into the desert and smoke something? And how\ndo we know that the scribes he dictated the Quran to didn\'t screw up, or\nput in their own little verses? And why can Muhammed marry more than four\nwomen, when no other muslim is allowed to? (Although I think the biggest\ninsult to Islam is that the majority of its followers would want to\nsuppress a book, sight unseen, on the say-so of some "holy" guy. Not to\nmention murder the author.)\n\n>Over the years, when I have made this point, various primarily muslim\n>posters have responded, saying that yes indeed they have read the book\n>and had called it such things as "filth and lies", "I would rank\n>Rushdie\'s book with Hitler\'s Mein Kempf or worse", and so on.\n\nI had much the same response when I tried to talk about the book. A really\nsilly argument - after all, how many of these same people have read "Mein\nKampf?" It just made me wonder - what are they afraid of? Why don\'t they\njust read the book and decide for themselves?\n\nMaybe the reaction of the muslim community to the book, and the absence of\nprotest from the "liberal" muslims to Khomeini\'s fatwa outrage, was the\nfinal push I needed into atheism!\n\n-s\n--\n Shamim Mohamed / {uunet,noao,cmcl2..}!arizona!shamim / shamim@cs.arizona.edu\n "Take this cross and garlic; here\'s a Mezuzah if he\'s Jewish; a page of the\n Koran if he\'s a Muslim; and if he\'s a Zen Buddhist, you\'re on your own."\n Member of the League for Programming Freedom - write to lpf@uunet.uu.net\n',
'From: sutton@vxcrna.cern.ch (SUTTON,BERN./SL)\nSubject: Hip replacement\nNews-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41 \nOrganization: European Organization for Nuclear Research, CERN\nLines: 0\n\n',
'From: willdb@wam.umd.edu (William David Battles)\nSubject: Re: YOU WILL ALL GO TO HELL!!!\nNntp-Posting-Host: rac1.wam.umd.edu\nOrganization: University of Maryland, College Park\nLines: 26\n\nIn article <1993Apr16.223250.15242@ncsu.edu> aiken@news.ncsu.edu (Wayne NMI Aiken) writes:\n>JSN104@psuvm.psu.edu wrote:\n>: YOU BLASHEPHEMERS!!! YOU WILL ALL GO TO HELL FOR NOT BELIEVING IN GOD!!!! BE\n>: PREPARED FOR YOUR ETERNAL DAMNATION!!!\n>\n>Did someone leave their terminal unattended again?\n>\n>--\n>\n>Holy Temple of Mass $ >>> slack@ncsu.edu <<< $ "My used underwear\n> Consumption! $ $ is legal tender in\n>PO Box 30904 $ BBS: (919) 782-3095 $ 28 countries!"\n>Raleigh, NC 27622 $ Warning: I hoard pennies. $ --"Bob"\n\nProbably not! The jesus freak\'s post is probably JSN104@PSUVM. Penn State\nis just loaded to the hilt with bible bangers. I use to go there *vomit* and\nit was the reason I left. They even had a group try to stop playing \nrock music in the dining halls one year cuz they deemed it satanic. Kampus\nKrusade for Khrist people run the damn place for the most part....except\nthe Liberal Arts departments...they are the safe havens.\n-wdb\n\nv\nrock music in the dining\nt\n\n',
"From: azamora@cs.indiana.edu (Tony Zamora)\nSubject: Re: more on 2 Peter 1:20\nReply-To: azamora@cs.indiana.edu\nOrganization: Computer Science, Indiana University\nLines: 45\n\nIn article <May.13.02.28.01.1993.1436@geneva.rutgers.edu> JEK@cu.nih.gov \nwrites:\n> In one sense, no statement by another is subject to my private\n> interpretation. If reliable historians tell me that the Athenians\n> lost the Pelopennesian War, I cannot simply interpret this away\n> because I wanted the Athenians to win. Facts are facts and do not go\n> away because I want them to be otherwise.\n> In another sense, every statement is subject to private\n> interpretation, in that I have to depend on my brains and\n> expereience to decide what it means, and whether it is sufficiently\n> well attested to merit my assent. Even if the statement occurs in an\n> inspired writing, I still have to decide, using my own best\n> judgement, whether it is in fact inspired. This is not arrogance --\n> it is just an inescapable fact.\n\nYes, there are these two senses of interpretation, and certainly our\ndecision to accept Scripture as inspired ultimately rests on our own\nprivate opinion. However, when reading Scripture, we have to remember\nthat the Scriptures were given by God for our instruction, and that\nthe interpretation that matters is the one God intended. For example,\nif I decide that the fact that John the Baptist is Elijah teaches the\ndoctrine of reincarnation, I am wrong because that is not the intended\ninterpretation. The prophets didn't make up this teaching; it came\nfrom God, and we must accept it as such. This necessarily means that\nour private interpretations must take a back seat to the meaning God\nintended to convey. Certainly we must rely on our best efforts to\ndetermine what this meaning is, but this very fact should make us\nrecognize that our private interpretations cannot be automatically\naccepted as the infallible interpretation of God. We need to test the\nspirits to see if they are from God. When the Holy Spirit speaks, he\nsays the same thing to all; he won't tell me that a passage means one\nthing and tell you it means another. If the two of us come to\nconflicting conclusions, we can't both be completely right. We know\nour interpretations are reliable only when the Church as a whole\nagrees on what Scripture means. This is how we know the doctrines of\nthe Trinity, the dual nature of Christ, etc. infallibly. These\nmatters are not up for private interpretation.\n\nThis is the reason Peter goes on to talk about the deceptiveness of\nthe false teachers. They preferred their own private interpretation\nto the God-given teaching of the apostles. It is through such private\ninterpretation that the traditions of men, so soundly denounced in\nScripture, are started.\n\nTony\n",
'From: Eugene.Bigelow@ebay.sun.com (Geno )\nSubject: Re: The doctrine of Original Sin\nReply-To: Eugene.Bigelow@ebay.sun.com\nOrganization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.\nLines: 15\n\n>In article <May.9.05.40.15.1993.27475@athos.rutgers.edu>, Eugene.Bigelow@ebay.sun.com >(Geno ) writes:\n>> [4) "Nothing unclean shall enter [heaven]" (Rev. 21.27). Therefore,\n>> babies are born in such a state that should they die, they are cuf off\n>> from God and put in hell, which is exactly the doctrine of St. Augustine\n>> and St. Thomas.\n\n...\n>-jeff adams-\n\nRegarding the first paragraph, I would say that I didn\'t write it. I\ndon\'t believe that unbaptized babies are put in Hell. I don\'t even\nbelieve in Hell. At least, I don\'t believe in a fiery place where\nthere will be "gnashing of teeth".\n\ngeno\n',
'From: david@stat.com (David Dodell)\nSubject: HICN611 Medical News Part 1/4\nReply-To: david@stat.com (David Dodell)\nDistribution: world\nOrganization: Stat Gateway Service, WB7TPY\nLines: 707\n\n------------- cut here -----------------\nVolume 6, Number 11 April 25, 1993\n\n +------------------------------------------------+\n ! !\n ! Health Info-Com Network !\n ! Medical Newsletter !\n +------------------------------------------------+\n Editor: David Dodell, D.M.D.\n 10250 North 92nd Street, Suite 210, Scottsdale, Arizona 85258-4599 USA\n Telephone +1 (602) 860-1121\n FAX +1 (602) 451-1165\n\nCompilation Copyright 1993 by David Dodell, D.M.D. All rights Reserved. \nLicense is hereby granted to republish on electronic media for which no \nfees are charged, so long as the text of this copyright notice and license \nare attached intact to any and all republished portion or portions. \n\nThe Health Info-Com Network Newsletter is distributed biweekly. Articles \non a medical nature are welcomed. If you have an article, please contact \nthe editor for information on how to submit it. If you are interested in \njoining the automated distribution system, please contact the editor. \n\nE-Mail Address:\n Editor: \n Internet: david@stat.com\n FidoNet = 1:114/15\n Bitnet = ATW1H@ASUACAD \nLISTSERV = MEDNEWS@ASUACAD.BITNET (or internet: mednews@asuvm.inre.asu.edu) \n anonymous ftp = vm1.nodak.edu\n Notification List = hicn-notify-request@stat.com\n FAX Delivery = Contact Editor for information\n\n\n::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::\n\n T A B L E O F C O N T E N T S\n\n\n1. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention - MMWR\n [23 April 1993] Rates of Cesarean Delivery ........................... 1\n Malaria Among U.S. Embassy Personnel ................................. 5\n FDA Approval of Hib Vaccine for Children/Infants ..................... 8\n\n2. Dental News\n Workshop Explores Oral Manifestations of HIV Infection ............... 11\n\n3. Food & Drug Administration News\n FDA Approves Depo Provera, injectable contraceptive .................. 14\n New Rules Speed Approval of Drugs for Life-Threatening Illnesses ..... 16\n\n4. Articles\n Research Promises Preventing/Slowing Blindness from Retinal Disease .. 18\n Affluent Diet Increases Risk Of Heart Disease ........................ 20\n\n5. General Announcments\n Publications for Health Professionals from National Cancer Institute . 23\n Publications for Patients Available from National Cancer Institute ... 30\n\n6. AIDS News Summaries\n AIDS Daily Summary for April 19 to April 23, 1993 .................... 38\n\n7. AIDS Statistics\n Worldwide AIDS Statistics ............................................ 48\n\n\n\n\n\nHICNet Medical Newsletter Page i\nVolume 6, Number 11 April 25, 1993\n\n\n\n::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::\n Centers for Disease Control and Prevention - MMWR\n::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::\n\n Rates of Cesarean Delivery -- United States, 1991\n =================================================\n SOURCE: MMWR 42(15) DATE: Apr 23, 1993\n\n Cesarean deliveries have accounted for nearly 1 million of the \napproximately 4 million annual deliveries in the United States since 1986 \n(Table 1). The cesarean rate in the United States is the third highest among \n21 reporting countries, exceeded only by Brazil and Puerto Rico (1). This \nreport presents data on cesarean deliveries from CDC\'s National Hospital \nDischarge Survey (NHDS) for 1991 and compares these data with previous years. \n Data on discharges from short-stay, nonfederal hospitals have been \ncollected annually since 1965 in the NHDS, conducted by CDC\'s National Center \nfor Health Statistics. For 1991, medical and demographic information were \nabstracted from a sample of 274,000 inpatients discharged from 484 \nparticipating hospitals. The 1991 cesareans and vaginal births after a prior \ncesarean (VBAC) presented in this report are based on weighted national \nestimates from the NHDS sample of approximately 31,000 (11%) women discharged \nafter delivery. The estimated numbers of live births by type of delivery were \ncalculated by applying cesarean rates from the NHDS to live births from \nnational vital registration data. Therefore, estimates of the number of \ncesareans in this report will not agree with previously published data based \nsolely on the NHDS (2). Stated differences in this analysis are significant at \nthe 95% confidence level, based on the two-tailed t-test with a critical value \nof 1.96. \n In 1991, there were 23.5 cesareans per 100 deliveries, the same rate as \nin 1990 and similar to rates during 1986-1989 (Table 1). The primary cesarean \nrate (i.e., number of first cesareans per 100 deliveries to women who had no \nprevious cesareans) for 1986-1991 also was stable, ranging from 16.8 to 17.5. \nIn 1991, the cesarean rate in the South was 27.6, significantly (p<0.05) \nhigher than the rates for the West (19.8), Midwest (21.8), and Northeast \n(22.6). Rates were higher for mothers aged greater than or equal to 30 years \nthan for younger women; in proprietary hospitals than in nonprofit or \ngovernment hospitals; in hospitals with fewer than 300 beds than in larger \nhospitals; and for deliveries for which Blue Cross/Blue Shield * and other \nprivate insurance is the expected source of payment than for other sources of \npayment (Table 2). The same pattern characterized primary cesarean deliveries. \n Since the early 1970s, the number and percentage of births to older women \nincreased; however, if the age distribution of mothers in 1991 had remained \nthe same as in 1986, the overall cesarean rate in 1991 would have been 23.3, \nessentially the same as the 23.5 observed. \n Based on the NHDS, of the approximately 4,111,000 live births in 1991, an \n\nHICNet Medical Newsletter Page 1\nVolume 6, Number 11 April 25, 1993\n\nestimated 966,000 (23.5%) were by cesarean delivery. Of these, an estimated \n338,000 (35.0%) births were repeat cesareans, and 628,000 (65.0%) were primary \ncesareans. Since 1986, approximately 600,000 primary cesareans have been \nperformed annually. In 1986, 8.5% of women who had a previous cesarean \ndelivered vaginally, compared with 24.2% in 1991. Of all cesareans in 1991, \n35.0% were associated with a previous cesarean, 30.4% with dystocia (i.e., \nfailure of labor to progress), 11.7% with breech presentation, 9.2% with fetal \ndistress, and 13.7% with all other specified complications. \n The average hospital stay for all deliveries in 1991 was 2.8 days. In \ncomparison, the hospital stay for a primary cesarean delivery was 4.5 days, \nand for a repeat cesarean, 4.2 days -- nearly twice the duration for VBAC \ndeliveries (2.2 days) or for vaginal deliveries that were not VBACs (2.3 \ndays). In 1986, the average hospital stay for all deliveries was 3.2 days, for \nprimary cesareans 5.2 days, for repeat cesareans 4.7 days, and for VBAC and \nnon-VBAC vaginal deliveries 2.7 and 2.6 days, respectively. \n\nReported by: Office of Vital and Health Statistics Systems, National Center \nfor Health Statistics, CDC. \n\nEditorial Note: The cesarean rate in the United States steadily increased from \n1965 through 1986; however, the findings in this report indicate that rates \nhave been stable since 1986 (3). Because there is little evidence that \nmaternal and child health status has improved during this time and because \ncesareans are associated with an increased risk for complications of \nchildbirth, a national health objective for the year 2000 (4) is to reduce the \noverall cesarean rate to 15 or fewer per 100 deliveries and the primary \ncesarean rate to 12 or fewer per 100 deliveries (objective 14.8). \n Postpartum complications -- including urinary tract and wound infections \n-- may account in part for the longer hospital stays for cesarean deliveries \nthan for vaginal births (5). Moreover, the prolonged hospital stays for \ncesarean deliveries substantially increase health-care costs. For example, in \n1991, the average costs for cesarean and vaginal deliveries were $7826 and \n$4720, respectively. The additional cost for each cesarean delivery includes \n$611 for physician fees and $2495 for hospital charges (6). If the cesarean \nrate in 1991 had been 15 (the year 2000 objective) instead of 23.5, the number \nof cesarean births would have decreased by 349,000 (617,000 versus 966,000), \nresulting in a savings of more than $1 billion in physician fees and hospital \ncharges. \n Despite the steady increase in VBAC rates since 1986, several factors may \nimpede progress toward the year 2000 national health objectives for cesarean \ndelivery. For example, VBAC rates substantially reflect the number of women \noffered trial of labor, which has been increasingly encouraged since 1982 (7). \nOf women who are offered a trial of labor, 50%-70% could deliver vaginally (7) \n--a level already achieved by many hospitals (8). Trial of labor was routinely \noffered in 46% of hospitals surveyed in 1984 (the most recent year for which \n\nHICNet Medical Newsletter Page 2\nVolume 6, Number 11 April 25, 1993\n\nnational data are available) (9) when the VBAC rate (according to NHDS data) \nwas 5.7%. The year 2000 objective specifies a VBAC rate of 35%, based on all \nwomen who had a prior cesarean, regardless of whether a trial of labor was \nattempted. To reach the overall cesarean rate goal, however, increases in the \nVBAC rate will need to be combined with a substantial reduction in the primary \nrate. \n One hospital succeeded in reducing the rate of cesarean delivery by \napplying objective criteria for the four most common indications for cesarean \ndelivery, by requiring a second opinion, and by instituting a peer-review \nprocess (10). Other recommendations for decreasing cesarean delivery rates \ninclude eliminating incentives for physicians and hospitals by equalizing \nreimbursement for vaginal and cesarean deliveries; public dissemination of \nphysician- and hospital-specific cesarean delivery rates to increase public \nawareness of differences in practices; and addressing malpractice concerns, \nwhich may be an important factor in maintaining the high rates of cesarean \ndelivery (4). \n\nReferences\n\n1. Notzon FC. International differences in the use of obstetric interventions. \nJAMA 1990; 263:3286-91. \n\n2. Graves EJ, NCHS. 1991 Summary: National Hospital Discharge Survey. \nHyattsville, Maryland: US Department of Health and Human Services, Public \nHealth Service, CDC, 1993. (Advance data no. 227). \n\n3. Taffel SM, Placek PJ, Kosary CL. U.S. cesarean section rates, 1990: an \nupdate. Birth 1992;19:21-2. \n\n4. Public Health Service. Healthy people 2000: national health promotion and \ndisease prevention objectives -- full report, with commentary. Washington, DC: \nUS Department of Health and Human Services, Public Health Service, 1991; DHHS \npublication no. (PHS)91-50212. \n\n5. Danforth DN. Cesarean section. JAMA 1985;253:811-8. \n\n6. Hospital Insurance Association of America. Table 4.15: cost of maternity \ncare, physicians\' fees, and hospital charges, by census region, based on \nConsumer Price Index (1991). In: 1992 Source book of health insurance data. \nWashington, DC: Hospital Insurance Association of America, 1992. \n\n7. Committee on Obstetrics. ACOG committee opinion no. 64: guidelines for \nvaginal delivery after a previous cesarean birth. Washington, DC: American \nCollege of Obstetricians and Gynecologists, 1988. \n\n\nHICNet Medical Newsletter Page 3\nVolume 6, Number 11 April 25, 1993\n\n8. Rosen MG, Dickinson JC. Vaginal birth after cesarean: a meta-analysis of \nindicators for success. Obstet Gynecol 1990;76:865-9. \n\n9. Shiono PH, Fielden JG, McNellis D, Rhoads GG, Pearse WH. Recent trends in \ncesarean birth and trial of labor rates in the United States. JAMA \n1987;257:494-7. \n\n10. Myers SA, Gleicher N. A successful program to lower cesarean-section \nrates. N Engl J Med 1988;319:1511-6. \n\n* Use of trade names and commercial sources is for identification only and \ndoes not imply endorsement by the Public Health Service or the U.S. Department \nof Health and Human Services.\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\nHICNet Medical Newsletter Page 4\nVolume 6, Number 11 April 25, 1993\n\n Malaria Among U.S. Embassy Personnel -- Kampala, Uganda, 1992\n =============================================================\n SOURCE: MMWR 42(15) DATE: Apr 23, 1993\n\n The treatment and prevention of malaria in Africa has become a \nchallenging and complex problem because of increasing drug resistance. \nAlthough the risk of acquiring malaria for U.S. citizens and their dependents \nstationed overseas generally has been low, this risk varies substantially and \nunpredictably. During May 1992, the Office of Medical Services, Department of \nState (OMS/DOS), and CDC were notified of an increased number of malaria cases \namong official U.S. personnel stationed in Kampala, Uganda. A review of the \nhealth records from the Embassy Health Unit (EHU) in Kampala indicated that 27 \ncases of malaria were diagnosed in official personnel from March through June \n1992 compared with two cases during the same period in 1991. EHU, OMS/DOS, and \nCDC conducted an investigation to confirm all reported malaria cases and \nidentify potential risk factors for malaria among U.S. Embassy personnel. This \nreport summarizes the results of the investigation. \n Malaria blood smears from 25 of the 27 reported case-patients were \navailable for review by OMS/DOS and CDC. A case of malaria was confirmed if \nthe slide was positive for Plasmodium sp. Of the 25 persons, 17 were slide-\nconfirmed as having malaria. \n A questionnaire was distributed to all persons served by the EHU to \nobtain information about residence, activities, use of malaria \nchemoprophylaxis, and use of personal protection measures (i.e., using bednets \nand insect repellents, having window and door screens, and wearing long \nsleeves and pants in the evening). Of the 157 persons eligible for the survey, \n128 (82%) responded. \n Risk for malaria was not associated with sex or location of residence in \nKampala. Although the risk for malaria was higher among children aged less \nthan or equal to 15 years (6/32 19%) than among persons greater than 15 \nyears (11/94 12%), this difference was not significant (relative risk \nRR=1.6; 95% confidence interval CI=0.6-4.0). Eighty-two percent of the \ncases occurred among persons who had been living in Kampala for 1-5 years, \ncompared with those living there less than 1 year. Travel outside of the \nKampala area to more rural settings was not associated with increased risk for \nmalaria. \n Four malaria chemoprophylaxis regimens were used by persons who \nparticipated in the survey: mefloquine, chloroquine and proguanil, chloroquine \nalone, and proguanil alone. In addition, 23 (18%) persons who responded were \nnot using any malaria chemoprophylaxis. The risk for malaria was significantly \nlower among persons using either mefloquine or chloroquine and proguanil (8/88 \n9%) than among persons using the other regimens or no prophylaxis (9/37 \n24%) (RR=0.4; 95% CI=0.2-0.9). Twelve persons not using prophylaxis reported \nside effects or fear of possible side effects as a reason. \n The risk for malaria was lower among persons who reported using bednets \n\nHICNet Medical Newsletter Page 5\nVolume 6, Number 11 April 25, 1993\n\nall or most of the time (2/27 7%) than among persons who sometimes or rarely \nused bednets (15/99 15%) (RR=0.5; 95% CI=0.1-2.0). The risk for malaria was \nalso lower among persons who consistently used insect repellent in the evening \n(0/16), compared with those who rarely used repellent (17/110 15%) (RR=0; \nupper 95% confidence limit=1.2). Risk for malaria was not associated with \nfailure to have window or door screens or wear long sleeves or pants in the \nevening. \n As a result of this investigation, EHU staff reviewed with all personnel \nthe need to use and comply with the recommended malaria chemoprophylaxis \nregimens. EHU staff also emphasized the need to use personal protection \nmeasures and made plans to obtain insecticide-impregnated bednets and to \nprovide window and door screens for all personnel. \n\nReported by: U.S. Embassy Health Unit, Kampala, Uganda; Office of Medical \nSvcs, Dept of State, Washington, D.C. Malaria Br, Div of Parasitic Diseases, \nNational Center for Infectious Diseases, CDC. \n\nEditorial Note: In Uganda, the increase in malaria among U.S. personnel was \nattributed to poor adherence to both recommended malaria chemoprophylaxis \nregimens and use of personal protection measures during a period of increased \nmalaria transmission and intensified chloroquine resistance in sub-Saharan \nAfrica. The findings in this report underscore the need to provide initial and \ncontinued counseling regarding malaria prevention for persons living abroad in \nmalaria-endemic areas -- preventive measures that are also important for \nshort-term travelers to such areas. \n Mefloquine is an effective prophylaxis regimen in Africa and in most \nother areas with chloroquine-resistant P. falciparum; however, in some areas \n(e.g., Thailand), resistance to mefloquine may limit its effectiveness. In \nAfrica, the efficacy of mefloquine, compared with chloroquine alone, in \npreventing infection with P. falciparum is 92% (1 ). Mefloquine is safe and \nwell tolerated when given at 250 mg per week over a 2-year period. The risk \nfor serious adverse reactions possibly associated with mefloquine prophylaxis \n(e.g., psychosis and convulsions) is low (i.e., 1.3-1.9 episodes per 100,000 \nusers 2), while the risk for less severe adverse reactions (e.g., dizziness, \ngastrointestinal complaints, and sleep disturbances) is similar to that for \nother antimalarial chemoprophylactics (1). \n Doxycycline has similar prophylactic efficacy to mefloquine, but the need \nfor daily dosing may reduce compliance with and effectiveness of this regimen \n(3,4). Chloroquine alone is not effective as prophylaxis in areas of intense \nchloroquine resistance (e.g., Southeast Asia and Africa). In Africa, for \npersons who cannot take mefloquine or doxycycline, chloroquine and proguanil \nis an alternative, although less effective, regimen. Chloroquine should be \nused for malaria prevention in areas only where chloroquine-resistant P. \nfalciparum has not been reported. \n Country-specific recommendations for preventing malaria and information \n\nHICNet Medical Newsletter Page 6\nVolume 6, Number 11 April 25, 1993\n\non the dosage and precautions for malaria chemoprophylaxis regimens are \navailable from Health Information for International Travel, 1992 (i.e., \n"yellow book") (5) or 24 hours a day by telephone or fax, (404) 332-4555. \n\nReferences\n\n1. Lobel HO, Miani M, Eng T, et al. Long-term malaria prophylaxis with weekly \nmefloquine in Peace Corps volunteers: an effective and well tolerated regimen. \nLancet 1993;341:848-51. \n\n2. World Health Organization. Review of central nervous system adverse events \nrelated to the antimalarial drug, mefloquine (1985-1990). Geneva: World Health \nOrganization, 1991; publication no. WHO/MAL/91.1063. \n\n3. Pang L, Limsomwong N, Singharaj P. Prophylactic treatment of vivax and \nfalciparum malaria with low-dose doxycycline. J Infect Dis 1988;158:1124-7. \n\n4. Pang L, Limsomwong N, Boudreau EF, Singharaj P. Doxycycline prophylaxis for \nfalciparum malaria. Lancet 1987;1:1161-4. \n\n5. CDC. Health information for international travel, 1992. Atlanta: US \nDepartment of Health and Human Services, Public Health Service, 1992:98; DHHS \npublication no. (CDC)92-8280.\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\nHICNet Medical Newsletter Page 7\nVolume 6, Number 11 April 25, 1993\n\n FDA Approval of Use of a New Haemophilus b Conjugate Vaccine and a\n Combined Diphtheria-Tetanus-Pertussis and Haemophilus b Conjugate\n Vaccine for Infants and Children\n ==================================================================\n SOURCE: MMWR 42(15) DATE: Apr 23, 1993\n\n Haemophilus influenzae type b (Hib) conjugate vaccines have been \nrecommended for use in infants since 1990, and their routine use in infant \nvaccination has contributed to the substantial decline in the incidence of Hib \ndisease in the United States (1-3). Vaccines against diphtheria, tetanus, and \npertussis during infancy and childhood have been administered routinely in the \nUnited States since the late 1940s and has been associated with a greater than \n90% reduction in morbidity and mortality associated with infection by these \norganisms. Because of the increasing number of vaccines now routinely \nrecommended for infants, a high priority is the development of combined \nvaccines that allow simultaneous administration with fewer separate \ninjections. \n The Food and Drug Administration (FDA) recently licensed two new products \nfor vaccinating children against these diseases: 1) the Haemophilus b \nconjugate vaccine (tetanus toxoid conjugate, ActHIB Trademark), * for \nvaccination against Hib disease only and 2) a combined diphtheria and tetanus \ntoxoids and whole-cell pertussis vaccine (DTP) and Hib conjugate vaccine \n(TETRAMUNE Trademark), a combination of vaccines formulated for use in \nvaccinating children against diphtheria, tetanus, pertussis, and Hib disease. \n\n ActHIB Trademark \n\n On March 30, 1993, the FDA approved a new Haemophilus b conjugate \nvaccine, polyribosylribitol phosphate-tetanus toxoid conjugate (PRP-T), \nmanufactured by Pasteur Merieux Serum et Vaccins and distributed as ActHIB \nTrademark by Connaught Laboratories, Inc. (Swiftwater, Pennsylvania). This \nvaccine has been licensed for use in infants in a three-dose primary \nvaccination series administered at ages 2, 4, and 6 months. Previously \nunvaccinated infants 7-11 months of age should receive two doses 2 months \napart. Previously unvaccinated children 12-14 months of age should receive one \ndose. A booster dose administered at 15 months of age is recommended for all \nchildren. Previously unvaccinated children 15-59 months of age should receive \na single dose and do not require a booster. More than 90% of infants receiving \na primary vaccination series of ActHIB Trademark (consecutive doses at 2, 4, \nand 6 months of age) develop a geometric mean titer of anti-Haemophilus b \npolysaccharide antibody greater than 1 ug/mL (4). This response is similar to \nthat of infants who receive recommended series of previously licensed \nHaemophilus b conjugate vaccines for which efficacy has been demonstrated in \nprospective trials. Two U.S. efficacy trials of PRP-T were terminated early \nbecause of the concomitant licensure of other Haemophilus b conjugate vaccines \n\nHICNet Medical Newsletter Page 8\nVolume 6, Number 11 April 25, 1993\n\nfor use in infants (4). In these studies, no cases of invasive Hib disease \nwere detected in approximately 6000 infants vaccinated with PRP-T. These and \nother studies suggest that the efficacy of PRP-T vaccine will be similar to \nthat of the other licensed Hib vaccines. TETRAMUNE Trademark \n On March 30, 1993, the FDA approved a combined diphtheria and tetanus \ntoxoids and whole-cell pertussis vaccine (DTP) and Haemophilus b conjugate \nvaccine. TETRAMUNE Trademark, available from Lederle-Praxis Biologicals (Pearl \nRiver, New York), combines two previously licensed products, DTP (TRIIMMUNOL \nRegistered, manufactured by Lederle Laboratories Pearl River, New York) and \nHaemophilus b conjugate vaccine (HibTITER Registered, manufactured by Praxis \nBiologics, Inc. Rochester, New York). \n This vaccine has been licensed for use in children aged 2 months-5 years \nfor protection against diphtheria, tetanus, pertussis, and Hib disease when \nindications for vaccination with DTP vaccine and Haemophilus b conjugate \nvaccine coincide. Based on demonstration of co mparable or higher antibody \nresponses to each of the components of the two vaccines, TETRAMUNE Trademark \nis expected to provide protection against Hib, as well as diphtheria, tetanus, \nand pertussis, equivalent to that of already licensed formulations of other \nDTP and Haemophilus b vaccines. \n The Advisory Committee for Immunization Practices (ACIP) recommends that \nall infants receive a primary series of one of the licensed Haemophilus b \nconjugate vaccines beginning at 2 months of age and a booster dose at age 12-\n15 months (5). The ACIP also recommends that all infants receive a four-dose \nprimary series of diphtheria and tetanus toxoids and pertussis vaccine at 2, \n4, 6, and 15-18 months of age, and a booster dose at 4-6 years (6-8). A \ncomplete statement regarding recommendations for use of ActHIB Trademark and \nTETRAMUNE Trademark is being developed. \n\nReported by: Office of Vaccines Research and Review, Center for Biologics \nEvaluation and Research, Food and Drug Administration. Div of Immunization, \nNational Center for Prevention Svcs; Meningitis and Special Pathogens Br, Div \nof Bacterial and Mycotic Diseases, National Center for Infectious Diseases, \nCDC. \n\nReferences\n\n1. Adams WG, Deaver KA, Cochi SL, et al. Decline of childhood Haemophilus \ninfluenzae type b (Hib) disease in the Hib vaccine era. JAMA 1993;269:221-6. \n\n2. Broadhurst LE, Erickson RL, Kelley PW. Decrease in invasive Haemophilus \ninfluenzae disease in U.S. Army children, 1984 through 1991. JAMA \n1993;269:227-31. \n\n3. Murphy TV, White KE, Pastor P, et al. Declining incidence of Haemophilus \ninfluenzae type b disease since introduction of vaccination. JAMA \n\nHICNet Medical Newsletter Page 9\nVolume 6, Number 11 April 25, 1993\n\n1993;269:246-8. \n\n4. Fritzell B, Plotkin S. Efficacy and safety of a Haemophilus influenzae type \nb capsular polysaccharide-tetanus protein conjugate vaccine. J Pediatr \n1992;121:355-62. \n\n5. ACIP. Haemophilus b conjugate vaccines for prevention of Haemophilus \ninfluenzae type b disease among infants and children two months of age and \nolder: recommendations of the Immunization Practices Advisory Committee \n(ACIP). MMWR 1991;40(no. RR-1). \n\n6. ACIP. Diphtheria, tetanus, and pertussis -- recommendations for vaccine use \nand other preventive measures: recommendations of the Immunization Practices \nAdvisory Committee (ACIP). MMWR 1991;40(no. RR-10). \n\n7. ACIP. Pertussis vaccination: acellular pertussis vaccine for reinforcing \nand booster use -- supplementary ACIP statement: recommendations of the \nImmunization Practices Advisory Committee (ACIP). MMWR 1992;41(no. RR-1). \n\n8. ACIP. Pertussis vaccination: acellular pertussis vaccine for the fourth and \nfifth doses of the DTP series -- update to supplementary ACIP statement: \nrecommendations of the Immunization Practices Advisory Committee (ACIP). MMWR \n1992;41(no. RR-15). \n\n* Use of trade names and commercial sources is for identification only and \ndoes not imply endorsement by the Public Health Service or the U.S. Department \nof Health and Human Services.\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\nHICNet Medical Newsletter Page 10\nVolume 6, Number 11 April 25, 1993\n\n\n\n::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::\n Dental News\n::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::\n\n International Workshop Explores Oral Manifestations of\n HIV Infection\n\n NIDR Research Digest\n written by Jody Dove\n March 1993\n National Institute of Dental Research\n\n At the Second International Workshop on the Oral Manifestations of HIV \nInfection, held January 31-February 3 in San Francisco, participants explored \nissues related to the epidemiology, basic molecular virology, mucosal \nimmunology, and oral clinical presentations of HIV infection. \n The workshop was organized by Dr. John Greenspan and Dr. Deborah \nGreenspan of the Department of Stomatology, School of Dentistry, University of \nCalifornia, San Francisco. An international steering committee and scientific \nprogram committee provided guidance. \n The conference drew more than 260 scientists from 39 countries, including \nAsia, Africa, Europe, Central America, South America, as well as the United \nStates and Canada. Support tor the workshop was provided by the National \nInstitute of Dental Research, the National Cancer Institute, the National \nInstitute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, the NIH Office of AIDS Research, \nand the Procter and Gamble Company. \n Among the topics discussed were: the epidemiology of HIV lesions; ethics, \nprofessional responsibility, and public policy; occupational issues; provision \nof oral care to the HIV-positive population; salivary HIV transmission and \nmucosal immunity; opportunistic infections; pediatric HIV infection; and \nwomen\'s issues. \n\n Recommendations\n\n Recommendations emerged from the workshop to define the association \nbetween the appearance of oral lesions and rate of progression of HIV, to \nestablish a universal terminology for HIV-associated oral lesions, to look for \nmore effective treatments for oral manifestations, to expand molecular biology \nstudies to understand the relationship between HIV infection and common oral \nlesions, and to study the effects of HIV therapy on oral lesions. \n\n Epidemiology\n\n Since the First International Workshop on Oral Manifestations of HIV \nInfection was convened five years ago, the epidemiology of HIV infection has \n\nHICNet Medical Newsletter Page 11\nVolume 6, Number 11 April 25, 1993\n\nradically changed. In 1988, HIV infection was detected and reported largely \nin homosexual and bisexual males, intravenous drug users, and hemophiliacs. \nToday, more HIV infection is seen in heterosexual males and females and in \nchildren and adolescents. \n While the predominant impact of HIV infection has been felt in Africa, a \nmajor increase in infection rate is being seen in Southeast Asia as well. \nFive hundred thousand cases have been reported to date in this region and more \nare appearing all the time. \n Researchers are continuing to document the epidemiology of oral lesions \nsuch as hairy leukoplakia and candidiasis. They also are beginning to explore \nthe relationships between specific oral lesions and HIV disease progression \nand prognosis. \n\n Social/political Issues\n\n Discussion on the social and political implications of HIV infection \nfocused on changing the public\'s attitude that AIDS is retribution for \nindiscriminate sexual behavior and drug use. Speakers also addressed health \ncare delivery for HIV-infected patients, and the need to educate the public \nabout what AIDS is, and how it is acquired. \n\n Saliva and Salivary Glands\n\n Conference speakers described transmission issues and the HIV-inhibitory \nactivity of saliva, the strength of which varies among the different salivary \nsecretions. Whole saliva has a greater inhibitory effect than submandibular \nsecretions, which in turn have a greater inhibitory effect than parotid \nsecretions. Research has shown that at least two mechanisms are responsible \nfor salivary inhibitory activity. They attributed the HIV-inhibitory effect \nof saliva to the 1) aggregation/agglutination of HIV by saliva, which may both \npromote clearance of virus and prevent it reaching a target cell, and 2) \ndirect effects on the virus or target cells. \n Other topics discussed were the manifestation of salivary gland disease \nin HIV-infected persons and current research on oral mucosal immunity. \n\n Pediatric Issues\n\n Pediatric AIDS recently has emerged as an area of intense interest. With \nearly and accurate diagnosis and proper treatment, the life expectancy of HIV-\ninfected children has tripled. The prevention of transmission of HIV from \nmother to child may be possible in many cases, particularly if the mother\'s \nsero-status is known prior to giving birth. \n\n Periodontal and Gingival Tissue Disease\n\n\nHICNet Medical Newsletter Page 12\nVolume 6, Number 11 April 25, 1993\n\n Oral health researchers continue to explore periodontal diseases and \ngingivitis found in individuals with HIV infection. Recommendations made at \nthe workshop include the standardization of terminology, refinement of \ndiagnostic markers, standardization of study design, and proper consideration \nof confounding variables resulting from periodontal therapy. \n\n Occupational and Treatment Issues\n\n Occupational issues surrounding the treatment of HIV-infected individuals \nand treatment rendered by HIV-infected health care professionals still command \nconsiderable attention. Factors under consideration include the cost/benefit \nof HIV testing, patient-to-health care provider transmission of HIV infection \nand the reverse, and the use of mainstream versus dedicated facilities for the \ntreatment of HIV-infected patients. \n Conference participants anticipate that a third International Workshop on \nthe Oral Manifestations of HIV Infection will be held in five years or less. \nProceedings from the second workshop will be published by the Quintessence \nCompany in late 1993.\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n--------- end of part 1 ------------\n\n---\n Internet: david@stat.com FAX: +1 (602) 451-1165\n Bitnet: ATW1H@ASUACAD FidoNet=> 1:114/15\n Amateur Packet ax25: wb7tpy@wb7tpy.az.usa.na\n',
'From: pkhalsa@wpi.WPI.EDU (Partap S Khalsa)\nSubject: Re: Strain Gage Applications in vivo\nOrganization: Worcester Polytechnic Institute\nLines: 27\nDistribution: inet\nNNTP-Posting-Host: wpi.wpi.edu\n\nIn article <1993Apr28.173600.21703@organpipe.uug.arizona.edu> ame_0123@bigdog.engr.arizona.edu (Terrance J. Dishongh) writes:\n>Greeting\n>\n>I am starting work on a project where I am trying to make strain gages\n>bond to bone in vivo or a period of several months. I am currently\n>using hydroxyapaptite back gages, and I have tried M-bonding the gages\n>to the bone. Apart from those two application methods there doesn\'t\n>seem to be much else in the literature. I have only an engineering \n>background not medical or biological. I would be interest in any\n>ideas about how to stimulte bone growth on the surface of cortical bone.\n>\n>Thanks for oyur help in Advance.\n>\n>Terrance J Dishongh\n>ame_0123@bigdog.engr.arizona.edu\n\nTerrance,\n\n There is a good article entitled: "A long-term in vivo bone strain\nmeasurement device," Journal of Investigative Surgery 1989; 2(2): 195-206\nby Szivek JA & Magee FP.\n I think you can find some others by searching MedLine.\n\nPartap S. Khalsa, MS, DC, FACO\nPost-Doc Research Fellow\nU.Mass.Med. School\n\n',
'From: noye@midway.uchicago.edu (vera shanti noyes)\nSubject: Re: Homosexuality issues in Christianity\nReply-To: noye@midway.uchicago.edu\nOrganization: University of Chicago\nLines: 56\n\nIn article <May.11.02.39.05.1993.28328@athos.rutgers.edu> carlson@ab24.larc.nasa.gov (Ann Carlson) writes:\n\n[bible verses ag./ used ag. homosexuality deleted]\n\n>Anyone who thinks being gay and Christianity are not compatible should \n>check out Dignity, Integrity, More Light Presbyterian churches, Affirmation,\n>MCC churches, etc. Meet some gay Christians, find out who they are, pray\n>with them, discuss scripture with them, and only *then* form your opinion.\n\nalso check out the episcopal church -- although by no means all\nepiscopalians are sympathetic to homosexual men and women, there\ncertainly is a fairly large percentage (in my experience) who are. i\nam good friends with an episcopalian minister who is ordained and\nliving in a monogamous homosexual relationship. this in no way\ndiminishes his ability to minister -- in fact he has a very\nsignificant ministry with the gay and lesbian association of his\ncommunity, as well as a very significant aids ministry.\n\nmy uncle is gay and when i found this out i had a good long think\nabout what the bible has to say about this and what i feel God thinks\nabout this. obviously my conclusions may be wrong; nonetheless they\nare my own and they feel right to me. i believe that the one\nimportant thing that those who wrote the old and new testament\npassages cited above did NOT know was that there is scientific\nevidence to support that homosexuality is at least partly _inherent_\nrather than completely learned. this means that to a certain extent\n-- or to a great extent -- homosexuals cannot choose how to feel about\nother people -- which is why reports of "curing" homosexuals always\nchill me and make me feel ill. please not that, although i can\'t cite\nsources where you can find this information, there is homosexual\nbehavior recorded among monkeys and other animals, which is in itself\nsuggestive that it is inherent rather than learned, or at least that\nthe word "unnatural" shouldn\'t really apply....\n\nplease remember that whatever you believe, gays and lesbians shoul not\nbe excluded from your love and acceptance. christ loved us all, and\nwe ALL sin. and he himself never said anything against homosexuals --\nrather it is paul (who also came out with such wonderful wisdom as\n"women shouldn\'t speak in church" and "women should keep their heads\ncovered in church" -- not exact quotations as i don\'t have my bible\nhandy) who says these things. i have a tendency to take some of the\nthings paul says with a grain of salt....\n\nwell, that\'s all i\'ll say for now.\n\n>************************************************* \n>*Dr. Ann B. Carlson (a.b.carlson@larc.nasa.gov) * O .\n>*MS 366 * o _///_ //\n>*NASA Langley Research Center * <`)= _<<\n>*Hampton, VA 23681-0001 * \\\\\\ \\\\\n>*************************************************\n\nvera noyes\n-------\nthe lord is risen indeed. let\'s party!\nnoye@midway,uchicago.edu\t\t\t\t(vera noyes)\n',
'From: livesey@solntze.wpd.sgi.com (Jon Livesey)\nSubject: Re: <Political Atheists?\nOrganization: sgi\nLines: 32\nDistribution: world\nNNTP-Posting-Host: solntze.wpd.sgi.com\n\nIn article <1qnp13INN816@gap.caltech.edu>, keith@cco.caltech.edu (Keith Allan Schneider) writes:\n|> livesey@solntze.wpd.sgi.com (Jon Livesey) writes:\n|> \n|> >Perhaps the chimps that failed to evolve cooperative behaviour\n|> >died out, and we are left with the ones that did evolve such\n|> >behaviour, entirely by chance.\n|> \n|> That\'s the entire point!\n\nNo, that\'s the point of evolution, not the point of "natural\nmorality". Unless, of course, as I have suggested several\ntimes already, "natural morality" is just a renaming.\n\n|> \n|> >Are you going to proclaim a natural morality every time an\n|> >organism evolves cooperative behaviour?\n|> \n|> Yes!\n|> \n|> Natural morality is a morality that developed naturally.\n\nBut your "yes?" is actually stronger than this. You are\nagreeing that "every time an organism evolves cooperative \nbehaviour" you are going to call it a "natural morality."\n\n> >What about the natural morality of bee dance?\n>\n> Huh?\n\nBee dance is a naturally developed piece of cooperative behaviour.\n\njon.\n',
"From: aezpete@deja-vu.aiss.uiuc.edu ()\nSubject: Re: Need info on Circumcision, medical cons and pros\nOrganization: University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign\nLines: 49\n\nIn article <1993Apr27.151619.2636@netnews.noc.drexel.edu> giamomj@duvm.ocs.drexel.edu (Mike G.) writes:\n>Need info on Circumcision, medical cons and pros\n>\n>In article <C63yG5.8tH@cs.uiuc.edu> Gunnar Blix, blix@milton.cs.uiuc.edu\n>writes:\n>>I need information on the medical (including emotional :-) pros and\n>>cons of circumcision (at birth). I am especially interested in\n>>references to studies that indicate disadvantages or refute studies\n>>that indicate advantages. A friend who is a medical student is\n>>writing a survey paper, and apparently the studies she has run into\n>>are all for circumcision, the main argument being a lower risk of\n>>penile cancer.\n>>\n>>Please email responses as I am not a frequent reader of either group.\n>>I will summarize to the net.\n>\n>I'm very surprised that medical schools still push routine circumcision\n>of newborn males on the population. Since your friend is not a man, she\n\n\nMoney probably has a lot to do with keeping the practice of routine \ncircumcision alive... It's another opporitunity to charge a few hundred\nextra bucks for a completely unnecessary procedure, the rationale for \nwhich until recently has been accepted without question by most\nparents of newborns. \n\nOne could also imagine that complications arising from circumcision\n(infections, sloppy jobs, etc) are far more common than the remote chance\nof penile cancer it is purported to prevent. \n \n\n>can't imagine what it's like to have a penis, much less a foreskin. I\n>guess if American medicine did an artistic job of circumcising every\n>male, then the visual result would be somewhat more natural in\n>appearance...\n>\n>The penile cancer thing has been *completely* debunked...she must be\n>going to school on a South Pacific island. Tell her to check the Journal\n>or Urology for circumcision articles. I remember at least 1 on an old\n>Jewish man (cut at birth) who developed penile cancer....I mean, if the\n>cancer risk was that great, the Europe who have been circumcising like\n>crazy, too. Teaching a boy how to keep his cockhead clean is the issue: a\n>little proper hygiene goes a long way - Americans are just too hung up on\n>the penis to consider cleaning it: that's just way too much like\n>mastubation. So you have surgical intervention that is basically\n>unnecessary.\n\nPeter Schlumpf\nUniversity of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign\n",
"From: Fil.Sapienza@med.umich.edu (Fil Sapienza)\nSubject: Re: Why do people become atheists?\nOrganization: University of Michigan Hospitals\nLines: 36\n\nIn article <May.7.01.09.59.1993.14571@athos.rutgers.edu> Bill Mayne,\nmayne@pipe.cs.fsu.edu writes:\nIn article <May.7.01.09.59.1993.14571@athos.rutgers.edu> Bill Mayne,\nmayne@pipe.cs.fsu.edu writes:\n>In article <May.5.02.50.42.1993.28665@athos.rutgers.edu> \n>Fil.Sapienza@med.umich.edu (Fil Sapienza) writes:\n>>I am interested in finding out why people become\n>>atheists after having believed in some god/God.\n>>In conversing with them on other groups, I've\n>>often sensed anger or hostility. Though I don't\n>>mean to imply that all atheists are angry or hostile,\n>>it does seem to be one motivation for giving up\n>>faith. Thus, some atheism might result from \n>>broken-ness.\n>\n>This is condescending at best and a slightly disquised ad hominem\n>attack. This attitude on the part of many theists, especially the\n>vocal ones, is one reason for the hostility you sense. How do you\n>like it when atheists say that people turn to religion out of\n>immature emotionalism?\n\nI wouldn't and don't. I thought I did a pretty good job of\nqualifying my statement, but apparently some people\nmisinterpreted my intentions. I apologize for my part in\ncommunicating any confusion. My intent was more to\nstir up discussion rather than judge. It seems to\nhave worked.\n\n[rest of post noted - by the way, I did not originally post this to\nalt.atheism. If it got there, I don't know how it did.]\n\n--\nFilipp Sapienza\nDepartment of Technology Services\nUniversity of Michigan Hospitals - Surgery\nFil.Sapienza@med.umich.edu\n",
'From: patel@enuxha.eas.asu.edu (Jayesh A. Patel)\nSubject: PARAMETRIC/VARIATIONAL DESIGN\nKeywords: PARAMETRIC/VARIATIONAL DESIGN\nOrganization: Arizona State University\nLines: 16\n\n\n\n\tHi Everyone,\n\n\tI am looking for papers/articels/books or any other\n\tsource of information about Parametric/Variational\n\tDesign in CAD/Solid Modeling.\n\n\tAny suggetions/references would be greatly appreaciated.\n\n\tThanks in advance.\n\n\tJayesh\n\n\tpatel@enuxha.eas.asu.edu ( IP No: 129.219.30.6)\n\n',
'From: umduddr0@ccu.umanitoba.ca (Brendan Duddridge)\nSubject: Re: looking for hot Mac 3D anim software\nNntp-Posting-Host: ccu.umanitoba.ca\nOrganization: University of Manitoba, Winnipeg, Canada\nDistribution: usa\nLines: 49\n\nIn <C68zD9.Mxp@news.udel.edu> stern@brahms.udel.edu (Garland Stern) writes:\n\n>I am interested in finding 3D animation programs for the Mac.\n>I am especially interested in any programs that don\'t exist\n>in a PC port and are so good that they would make me go buy\n>a Mac. Do any such exist?\n\n>Thanks in advance\n\nHowdy... I think you would be interested in Infini-D 2.5 for the Mac. There\nis no DOS or Windows version. It\'s quite an amazing program.\n\n"Some" of the features:\n\n* Bevel Text\n* Timeline based animation sequencer\n* Realtime bounding box preview\n* Object linking\n* Phong Shading\n* Ray Tracing\n* Bounding Box shading\n* Wireframe shading\n* Ghourad shading\n* Flat shading\n* Anti-aliasing (none, low, medium, high)\n* Environment maps\n* Quicktime support (wrap a QT movie around an object)\n* Procedural surfaces\n* Composed surfaces (for layering surfaces)\n* Alpha channel support\n* Import EPS, DXF, and Swivel 3D files\n* Export DXF and Swivel 3D files\n* Spline based animation\n* Animation assistant (for creating smooth movements and other stuff)\n* Object morphing (surfaces and bevels morph too)\n\n... And lots more that I can\'t remember right now...\n\nAnyway, it\'s not as expensive as some of the other animation/rendering\npackages. I think you can get it for around $699 from MacWarehouse.\nThey also have educational discounts...\n\nWell, hope that helps a bit.\n\nSee ya...\n-- \nBrendan Duddridge\nInterNet : umduddr0@ccu.umanitoba.ca\nAmerica Online : BrendanD1\n',
"From: eric.vitiello@tfd.coplex.com (Eric Vitiello) \nSubject: 3DS: Where did all the te\nDistribution: world\nOrganization: Ky/In PC User's Group - Louisville, KY - 502-423-8654\nReply-To: eric.vitiello@tfd.coplex.com (Eric Vitiello) \nLines: 20\n\nTO: rych@festival.ed.ac.uk (R Hawkes)\n\nRH>I've noticed that if you only save a model (with all your mapping planes\nRH>positioned carefully) to a .3DS file that when you reload it after restarting\nRH>3DS, they are given a default position and orientation. But if you save\nRH>to a .PRJ file their positions/orientation are preserved. Does anyone\nRH>know why this information is not stored in the .3DS file? Nothing is\n\n This is because the PRJ (Project) format saves all of your settings,\n right down to the last render file's name.\n\nRH>I'd like to be able to read the texture rule information, does anyone have\nRH>the format for the .PRJ file?\n\n Sorry... Don't have anything on that or the CEL format.\n\n....r.c V.t.ell. .r...\n---\n . DeLuxe./386 1.25 #959sa . .....Stupid ..... Line ...}. Noise!!\n \n",
'From: battin@cyclops.iucf.indiana.edu (Laurence Gene Battin)\nSubject: Re: Krillean Photography\nNntp-Posting-Host: cyclops.iucf.indiana.edu\nOrganization: Indiana University\nX-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL9]\nLines: 18\n\nIn article <1993Apr26.204319.11231@ultb.isc.rit.edu>, E.A. Story (eas3714@ultb.isc.rit.edu) wrote:\n> In article <1rgrsvINNmpr@gap.caltech.edu> carl@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU writes:\n> >Greg:Flame definitely intended here. Bill was making fun of the misspelling. \n> >Go look up the word "krill." Also, the correct spelling is Kirlian. It\n> >involves taking photographs of corona discharges created by attaching the\n> >subject to a high-voltage source, not of some "aura." It works equally well\n> >with inanimate objects.\n\n> True.. but what about showing the missing part of a leaf? Is this\n> "corona discharge"?\n\nNo. It\'s called "not wiping off the apparatus after taking a picture of the\nwhole leaf."\n\nGene Battin\nbattin@cyclops.iucf.indiana.edu\nno .sig yet\n\n',
'From: nyeda@cnsvax.uwec.edu (David Nye)\nSubject: Re: Sumatripton (spelling?)\nOrganization: University of Wisconsin Eau Claire\nLines: 21\n\n[reply to roxannen@cruzio.santa-cruz.ca.u]\n \n>I recently heard of some testing of a new migraine drug called\n>sumatripton (I have no idea of the actual spelling) that supposedly\n>utilizes a chemical that trips neuro-transmitters. My mother has\n>regular migraines and nothing seems to help - does anyone know anything\n>about this new drug? Is it in a testing phaze or anywhere near\n>approval? Does it seem to be working?\n \nI just got back from the American Academy of Neurology annual meeting,\nwhere the consensus was that sumatriptan (Imitrex) has no advantages\nover DHE-45 nasal spray, which is much less expensive, has fewer side\neffects, is as effective, and works more quickly (5-10 minutes vs. 30).\nBesides, who wants to give themselves a shot (sumatriptan) when a nasal\nspray works? DHE nasal spray is not widely available yet -- it has to\nbe mail ordered from one of a few pharmacies in the country -- but most\nneurologists now know about it and know how to order it.\n \nDavid Nye (nyeda@cnsvax.uwec.edu). Midelfort Clinic, Eau Claire WI\nThis is patently absurd; but whoever wishes to become a philosopher\nmust learn not to be frightened by absurdities. -- Bertrand Russell\n',
'From: PETCH@gvg47.gvg.tek.com (Chuck)\nSubject: Daily Verse--King James. Compare this with previous version from NIV.\nLines: 4\n\nBut whoso hearkeneth unto me shall dwell safely, and shall be quiet\nfrom fear of evil.\n\nProverbs 1:33\n',
"From: kryan@stein.u.washington.edu (Kerry Ryan)\nSubject: looking for info on kemotherapy(sp?)\nArticle-I.D.: shelley.1rjpu7INNmij\nOrganization: University of Washington\nLines: 4\nNNTP-Posting-Host: stein.u.washington.edu\n\n\nHello, a friend is under going kemotherapy(sp?) for breast cancer. I'm\ntrying to learn what I can about it. Any info would be appreciated.\nThanks.\n",
"From: Nanci Ann Miller <nm0w+@andrew.cmu.edu>\nSubject: Re: College atheists\nOrganization: Sponsored account, School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA\nLines: 34\nNNTP-Posting-Host: po5.andrew.cmu.edu\nIn-Reply-To: <1993Apr20.191209.6142@cnsvax.uwec.edu>\n\nnyeda@cnsvax.uwec.edu (David Nye) writes:\n> I read an article about a poll done of students at the Ivy League\n> schools in which it was reported that a third of the students\n> indentified themselves as atheists. This is a lot higher than among the\n> general population. I wonder what the reasons for this discrepancy are?\n> Is it because they are more intelligent? Younger? Is this the wave of\n> the future?\n\nI would guess that it probably has something to do with the ease of which\nideas and thoughts are communicated on a college campus. In the real world\n(tm) it's easier for theists (well, people in general really) to lock\nthemselves into a little bubble where they only see and talk to those\npeople who are of the same opinion as they are. In college you are\nconstantly surrounded by and have to interact with people who have\ndifferent ideas about life, the universe, and everything. It is much much\nharder to build a bubble around yourself to keep everyone else's ideas from\nreaching you.\n\nSo, in a world where theists are forced to contend with and listen to\natheists and theists of other religions some are bound to have a change in\ntheir beliefs over four years. There is nowhere to run.... :-)\n\n> David Nye (nyeda@cnsvax.uwec.edu). Midelfort Clinic, Eau Claire WI\n> This is patently absurd; but whoever wishes to become a philosopher\n> must learn not to be frightened by absurdities. -- Bertrand Russell\n\nNanci\n.........................................................................\nIf you know (and are SURE of) the author of this quote, please send me\nemail (nm0w+@andrew.cmu.edu):\nThe fate of the country does not depend on what kind of paper you drop into\nthe ballot box once a year, but on what kind of man you drop from your\nchamber into the street every morning.\n\n",
'From: roxannen@cruzio.santa-cruz.ca.us\nSubject: Sumatripton (spelling?)\nKeywords: migraine\nReply-To: roxannen@cruzio.santa-cruz.ca.us\nLines: 19\n\n\nI recently heard of some testing of a new migraine drug called sumatripton\n(I have no idea of the actual spelling) that supposedly utilizes a chemical\nthat trips neuro-transmitters. My mother has regular migraines and nothing\nseems to help - does anyone know anything about this new drug? Is it in\na testing phaze or anywhere near approval? Does it seem to be working?\n\nAny information would help.\n\nPlease feel free to e-mail rather than take up bandwidth if you prefer.\n\nThanks in advance,\n\n-Rox\n-- \nroxannen@cruzio.santa-cruz.ca.us\n\n\n"Virtue is a relative term."\n',
'From: decay@cbnewsj.cb.att.com (dean.kaflowitz)\nSubject: Re: some thoughts.\nOrganization: AT&T\nDistribution: na\nLines: 40\n\nIn article <C62B52.LKz@blaze.cs.jhu.edu>, arromdee@jyusenkyou.cs.jhu.edu (Ken Arromdee) writes:\n> In article <w_briggs-250493134303@ccresources6h58.cc.utas.edu.au> w_briggs@postoffice.utas.edu.au (William Briggs) writes:\n> >Wasn\'t JC a carpenter? Anyway that\'s beside the point. I think the fact\n> >that is more compelling is JC fulfilling the prophecies when the prophecies\n> >include him getting killed in the most agonizing possible way.\n> \n> This is nonsense.\n> \n> I can think of a lot more agonizing ways to get killed. Fatal cancer, for\n> instance.\n> \n> Anyone else have some more? Maybe we can make a list.\n\nActually, I find the stuff about JC being a carpenter more\ninteresting. Is there an independent source for this assertion,\nor is it all from the Christian Bible? Is there any record at\nall of anything he built? A table, a house, some stairs (Norm\nAbrams says the real test of a carpenter\'s skill is building\nstairs with hand tools). Did he leave any plans behind for, say\nkitchen counters and cabinets? Did he build his own cross?\nIf so, did he use pressure-treated lumber? Gotta use that\npressure-treated anywhere that wood meets concrete, but it\nholds up better anyway for mose outdoor applications. I keep\nseeing these bumper-stickers that say "My boss is a Jewish\nCarpenter," but they\'re always on the back of Ford Escorts,\nand a real carpenter\'s apprentice would probably drive a\npickup, so I\'m out for verification that he really was a\ncarpenter.\n\nDean Kaflowitz\n\nSometimes I like to get away from the shack\nCatfish ain\'t pretty\nBut they don\'t talk back\nGoin\' fishin\' again\nGoin\' fishin\' again\nMe and my no good friends\nSure goin\' fishin\' again\n\n\n',
'From: lcrew@andromeda.rutgers.edu (Louie Crew)\nSubject: Re: hate the sin...\nReply-To: <lcrew@andromeda.rutgers.edu>\nOrganization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.\nLines: 66\n\nwjhovi01@ulkyvx.louisville.edu (Bill Hovingh, LPTS Student) writes:\n\n>scott@prism.gatech.edu (Scott Holt) writes:\n>> "Hate the sin but love the sinner"...I\'ve heard that quite a bit recently, \n>> often in the context of discussions about Christianity and homosexuality...\n>> but the context really isn\'t that important. My question is whether that\n>> statement is consistent with Christianity. I would think not.\n\n>I\'m very grateful for scott\'s reflections on this oft-quoted phrase. Could\n>someone please remind me of the Scriptural source for it? (Rom. 12.9 doesn\'t\n>count, kids.) The manner in which this little piece of conventional wisdom is\n ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^\n>applied has, in my experience, been uniformly hateful and destructive.\n ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^\n>billh\n\n[underlining mine/Quean Lutibelle]\n\n\nYes, those who apply it hatefully would be better served if they if\nthey could alter the Bible to reflect their views:\n\nScene 1: A well in Samaria:\n\nWoman: But I have no husband.\nJesus: Yo! Everybody! Listen up! Get your rocks ready! We\'ll have\n some good biblical fun. Here she is whispering to me that\n she doesn\'t have a husband, yet I know by my secret powers that\n she has had five of them! (You know how these Samaritans are!\n And worse, she\'s living with a guy now that she\'s not even married\n to. Now I believe in loving her, and if you\'ll just raise up\n those rocks like the bible allows and threaten her with a good\n stoning, she\'ll understand how much we hate the sin but love\n the sinner. We must keep our priorities strait, lest folks\n 2,000 years from now misunderstand me and believe I canceled\n all sin!\n\nScene 2: Golgatha\n\n2nd Thief: You got a raw deal, man. They didn\'t catch you doing anything\n wrong like they caught me.\n\nBleeding Jesus: Now, son. Let me be real clear. You say you did something\n wrong, but are you repenting? I need to be absolutely certain\n cause if you repent, I have a nice room for you in heaven,\n but if you think you might go thieving again, I have to\n cancel your reservation. It is nice of you to have pity on\n me while I\'m hanging here, but you must understand, this is\n all an act; I\'m not really hurting. I\'m God, you see. And\n the point of all this is to teach you to be perfect like me.\n If you think a simple kind remark to me in suffering is going\n to get you any favors, you\'d better think twice! But if you\n will just REPENT, you will become a Fundelical in Good \n Standing.\n\nFrom all such Bad News, you have delivered us, Good God! Thank you!\nThank you! Thank you!\n\nQuean Lutibelle/Louie\n \n\n-- \n ==========================================================================\n Louie Crew, Academic Foundations Department, Rutgers University, NWK 07102\n lcrew@andromeda.rutgers.edu 201-485-4503\n If by snail, I prefer: P. O. Box 30, Newark, NJ 07101\n',
"From: bil@okcforum.osrhe.edu (Bill Conner)\nSubject: Re: Religion As Cause (Was: islamic authority over women)\nNntp-Posting-Host: okcforum.osrhe.edu\nOrganization: Okcforum Unix Users Group\nX-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL9]\nLines: 19\n\nScott D. Sauyet (SSAUYET@eagle.wesleyan.edu) wrote:\n\n: The same works for the horrors of history. To claim that Christianity\n: had little to do with the Crusades or the Inquisition is to deny the\n: awesome power that comes from faith in an absolute. What it seems you\n: are doing twisting the reasonable statement that religion was never\n: the solitary cause of any evil into the unreasonable statement that\n: religion has had no evil impacts on history. That is absurd.\n\nScott,\n\nUntil this paragraph I would willingly amend my earlier statements,\nsince your point(s) are well made and generally accurate. This last\npart though slips into hyperbole. Since I've discussed my objections to\nsuch generalizations before, I really don't feel I need to do it\nagain. If you haven't seen those posts, ask Maddi, she saves\neverything I write.\n\nBill\n",
'From: cacci@interlan.interlan.com (Ernie Cacciapuoti)\nSubject: Question: Phosphorylase Kinase Deficiency???\nOrganization: Racal-Datacom\nDistribution: usa\nLines: 5\n\nIf anyone has any information on this deficiency I would very greatly\nappreciate a response here or preferably by Email. All I know at this\npoint is a deficiency can cause myoglobin to be released, and in times\nof stress and high ambient temperature could cause renal failure.\nx\n',
'From: mls@panix.com (Michael Siemon)\nSubject: eros in LXX: concluding lexicographic note\nOrganization: PANIX Public Access Unix, NYC\nLines: 58\n\nThis might be better directed to s.r.c.bible-study, which I have begun\nreading, but since my earlier notes were posted to this forum, I will\nconclude here as well. A week ago, I managed to find time to consult\na Septuagint Concordance and a LXX text with apparatus at the library,\nand I can now usefully conclude my look at the Greek words for love as\nused in the Christian background of the Septuagintal translation of the\nJewish scriptures.\n\nThe principal result is that there is a cluster of uses of the verbal\nnoun from _erao:_, _eraste:s_ meaning "lover." This cluster occurs just\nwhere one might most expect it, in the propethic image (and accusation)\nof Israel as faithless spouse to YHWH. The verses in question are Hosea\n2:5,7 & 10; Jeremiah 4:30, 22:20 & 22; Lamentations 1:19; and Ezekiel\n16:33, 36 &37 and 23:5, 9 & 22.\n\n\t[ Hosea seems to have originated this usage, which Jeremiah and\n\t Ezekiel picked up; Lamentations is dependent on, though not\n\t likely written by, Jeremiah. ]\n\nThe "erotic" meaning (in its allegorical use, not at all literally) is\nevident. So too in English, unless you complement it with a phrase like\n"of the arts" the word "lover" is going to have an overtone of sexual\nrelationship. There is no surprise here, but it is worthwhile to see\nthat standard Greek usage *does* show up in the translations from the\nHebrew! :-)\n\nMore interestingly, and some confirmation of my guess that later Koine\nusage avoided the verb _erao:_ because of its homonymy to _ero:_ (say),\n_eromai_ (ask), there is an error in Codex Vaticanus (normally, a very\nvaluable witness) where a form of _erao:_ is used in a completely absurd\ncontext -- 2 Samuel 20:18, where the meaning *must* be "say."\n\nIn addition to the above (and the uses I have already mentioned in Proverbs),\nEsther 2:17 uses the verb in its most natural application, \n\n\tkai e:rasthe" ho basileus Esthe:r -- and the King loved Esther\n\nand, rather more interestingly, 1 Samuel 19:2 supplies a modest degree of\nsupport to the gay appraisal of the relationship of David and Jonathan:\n\n\tkai Io:nathan huios Saoul e:[i]reito ton Dauid sphodra\n\t-- and Jonathan, Saul\'s son, loved David intensely\n\n\t[ I\'m using the bracketed [i] for io:ta subscript, which I\n\t don\'t yet have a reasonable ASCII convention for. ]\n\n(The relevance of this to the gay issue is not anything implicit about\nthe "historical" facts, but just that a quasi-official translation of\nthe Hebrew text in the Hellenistic period makes no bones about using the\n"erotic" verb in this context. Given the quite general usage of _agapao:_\nfor erotic senses, this need not mean anything "more" than _agapao:_ alone\nwould mean, but it DOES disambiguate the relationship, as far as this\ntranslator goes!)\n-- \nMichael L. Siemon\t\tI say "You are gods, sons of the\nmls@panix.com\t\t\tMost High, all of you; nevertheless\n - or -\t\t\tyou shall die like men, and fall\nmls@ulysses.att..com\t\tlike any prince." Psalm 82:6-7\n',
"From: mikeq@freddy.CNA.TEK.COM (Mike Quigley)\nSubject: Re: Should I be angry at this doctor?\nDistribution: na\nOrganization: Tektronix, Inc., Redmond, OR.\nLines: 8\n\nHow about going to a doctor to get some minor surgery done. Doctor\nrefuses to do it because it's ``to risky'' (still charges me $50!).\nI go home and do it myself. No problem.\n\nThe ``surgery'' involved digging out a pine needle that had buried\nitself under my tongue.\n\nMike\n",
'From: tgk@cs.toronto.edu (Todd Kelley)\nSubject: Re: Faith and Dogma\nOrganization: Department of Computer Science, University of Toronto\nLines: 89\n\nmarshall@csugrad.cs.vt.edu (Kevin Marshall) <1r2eba$hsq@csugrad.cs.vt.edu>\nwrote:\n>I don\'t necessarily disagree with your assertion, but I disagree with\n>your reasoning. (Faith = Bad. Dogma = Bad. Religion -> (Faith ^ Dogma).\n>Religion -> (Bad ^ Bad). Religion -> Bad.) Unfortunately, you never \n>state why faith and dogma are dangerous. \n\nFaith and dogma are dangerous because they cause people to act on\nfaith alone, which by its nature is without justification. That\nis what I mean by the word ``faith\'\': belief without justification, or\nbelief with arbitrary justification, or with emotional (irrational)\njustification.\n\nFor example, when someone says that God exists, that they don\'t know\nwhy they believe God exists, they can just feel it, that\'s faith.\n\nDogma is bad because it precludes positive change in belief based\non new information, or increased mental faculty.\n>\n>So Christians are totally irrational? Irrational with respect to their\n>religion only? What are you saying? One\'s belief in a Christian God does\n>not make one totally irrational. I think I know what you were getting at,\n>but I\'d rather hear you expand on the subject.\n\nFaith and dogma are irrational. The faith and dogma part of any religion\nare responsible for the irrationality of the individuals. I claim that\nfaith and dogma are the quintessential part of any religion. If that\nmakes (the much overused in this context) Buddism a philosophy rather\nthan a religion, I can live with that. Science is not a religion,\nbecause there is no faith nor dogma.\n>\n>>A philosopher cannot be a Christian because a philosopher can change his mind,\n>>whereas a Christian cannot, due to the nature of faith and dogma present\n>>in any religion.\n>\n>Again, this statement is too general. A Christian is perfectly capable of\n>being a philosopher, and absolutely capable of changing his/her mind. Faith in\n>God is a belief, and all beliefs may change. Would you assert that atheists\n>would make poor philosophers because they are predisposed to not believe in a\n>God which, of course, may show unfair bias when studying, say, religion?\n\nHave you noticed that philosophers tend to be atheists? If a philosopher\nis not an atheist, s/he tends to be called a theologian.\n\nA Christian tends to consider Christianity sacred. Christianity is\na special set of beliefs, sanctioned by God himself, and therefore,\nto conceive of changing those beliefs is to question the existence\nof That Being Who Makes No Mistakes. Faith comes into play. Dogma\ncomes into play. ``The lord works in mysterious ways\'\' is an example\nof faith being used to reconcile evidence that the beliefs are flawed.\nSure, interpretations of what ``God said\'\' are changed to satisfy the\nneeds of society, but when God says something, that\'s it. It was said,\nand that\'s that. Since God said it, it is unflawed, even if the\ninterpretations are flawed.\n\nScience, (as would be practiced by atheists) in contrast, has a\nBUILT IN defence against faith and dogma.\nA scientist holds sacred the idea that beliefs should change to\nsuit whatever is the best information available at the time, AND,\n*AND*, ****AND***, a scientist understands that any current beliefs\nare deficient in some way. The goal is to keep improving\nthe beliefs. The goal is to keep changing the beliefs to reflect\nthe best information currently available. That\'s the only rational\nthing to do. That\'s good philosophy.\n\nCan you see the difference? Science views beliefs as being flawed,\nand new information can be obtained to improve them. (How many\nscientists would claim to have complete and perfect understanding\nof everything? None---it would put them out of a job!) Religion\nviews its beliefs as being perfect, and the interpretations of\nthose beliefs must be changed as new information is acquired which\nconflicts with them.\n>\n>Please explain how "just because" thinking kills people. (And please\n>state more in your answer than "Waco.")\n\nIt\'s easier for someone to kill a person when s/he doesn\'t require\na good rational justification of the killing. I don\'t consider\n``he\'s Jewish\'\', or ``he was born of Jewish parents\'\', or\n``this document says he\'s Jewish\'\' to be good rational justification.\n\n>By the way, I wasn\'t aware mass suicide\n>was a problem. Waco and Jonestown were isolated incidents. \n>Mass suicides are far from common.\n\nClinton and the FBI would love for you to convince them of this.\nIt would save the US taxpayer a lot of money if you could.\n\nTodd\n',
'From: mathew <mathew@mantis.co.uk>\nSubject: Re: After 2000 years, can we say that Christian Morality is\nOrganization: Mantis Consultants, Cambridge. UK.\nX-Newsreader: rusnews v1.02\nLines: 33\n\narromdee@jyusenkyou.cs.jhu.edu (Ken Arromdee) writes:\n> Simple. Take out some physics books, and start looking for statements which\n> say that there is no objective physics. I doubt you will find any. You\n> might find statements that there is no objective length, or no objective\n> location, but no objective _physics_?\n\nPerhaps you have a different understanding of what "physics" is. If we\ncan\'t measure anything objectively, then the answers we get from physics\naren\'t objective either. That\'s what I mean when I say there\'s no objective\nphysics.\n\nSure, we can all agree that (say) F = GMm/r^2, but that\'s maths. It\'s only\nphysics when you relate it to the real world, and if we can\'t do that\nobjectively, we\'re stuck. (Of course, this displays my blatant bias towards\napplied science; but even theoretical physics gets applied to models of real\nworld situations, based on real world observations.)\n\n> (Consider, for instance, that speed-of-light-in-\n> vacuum is invariant. This sounds an awful lot like an objective\n> speed-of-light-in-vacuum.)\n\nIt\'s an axiom that it\'s invariant. But if the two of us measure it, we\'ll\nget different answers. Yes, we call that experimental error, but it\'s not\nreally "error" in the conventional sense; in fact, if you don\'t get any,\nthat\'s an error :-)\n\nYou could argue that the value of c is "objective, to within +/- <some\nvalue>". But I\'d call that a rather odd usage of the word "objective", and\nit opens the way for statements like "Murder is objectively wrong for all\npeople, to within 1% of the total population."\n\n\nmathew\n',
'From: norris@athena.mit.edu (Richard A Chonak)\nSubject: \'Latin\' mailing list\nReply-To: norris@mit.edu\nOrganization: l\'organisation, c\'est moi\nLines: 16\n\nFrom the June newsletter of the Latin Liturgy Association:\n\nThere is a new e-mail discussion group: LATIN-L, a forum for people\ninterested in classical Latin, medieval Latin, Neo-Latin; the languages of\nchoice are Latin (of course) and whatever vulgar languages you feel\ncomfortable using. Please be prepared to translate on request. The field\nis open -- name your topic! In order to subscribe, BITNET users should\nsend an interactive message of the form "TELL LISTSERV@PSUVM SUB LATIN-L\n[your name]". INTERNET users should send a message (without a subject\nline) to the address LISTSERV@PSUVM.PSU.EDU. The message should read "SUB\nLATIN-L [your name]". Once subscribed, one may participate by sending\nmessages to LATIN-L@PSUVM or LATIN-L@PSUVM.PSU.EDU.\n\n---\nRichard Aquinas Chonak, norris@mit.edu\norbis unus orans\n',
'From: wagner@grace.math.uh.edu (David Wagner)\nSubject: Re: homosexual issues in Christianity\nOrganization: UH Dept of Math\nLines: 84\n\n"Michael" == Michael Siemon <mls@panix.com> writes:\n\nMichael> The kind of interpretation I see as "incredibly perverse" is\nMichael> that applied to the story of Sodom as if it were a blanket\nMichael> equation of homosexual behavior and rape. Since Christians\nMichael> citing the Bible in such a context should be presumed to have\nMichael> at least READ the story, it amounts to slander -- a charge\nMichael> that homosexuality == rape -- to use that against us.\n\nand\n\nMichael> It is just\nMichael> as wrong (though slightly less incendiary, so it\'s a\nMichael> secondary argument from the \'phobic contingent) to equate\nMichael> homosexuality with such behavior as to equate it with the\nMichael> rape of God\'s messengers.\n\nLet\'s review the Sodom and Gomorrah story briefly. It states\nclearly that the visitors were angels. But "all the men from every\npart of the city of Sodom--both young and old--surrounded the\nhouse. They called to Lot, `Where are the *men* who came to \nyou tonight? Bring them out to us so that we can have sex \nwith them.\' " \n\nFor the rest of the story the angels are referred to by the men\nof Sodom and by Lot as *men*. Furthermore we know from Gen 18:20,21\nthat the Lord had already found Sodom guilty of grievous sin--before\nthe angels visited the city. It is clear that the grievous sin\nof Sodom and Gomorrah involved homosexual sex. It appears that\nthe men had become so inflamed in their lust that they had\ngroup orgies in the public square--which simply indicates \nthe extremity of their depravity. It does not show that lesser \ndegrees of homosexuality are not sinful, as Michael would have us\nbelieve.\n\nUltimately our understanding of God\'s will for sexuality comes from\nthe creation story--not solely on the story of Sodom and Gomorrah. He\ncreated us male and female, and instituted marriage as a relationship\nbetween one male and one female, "Therefore a man will leave his\nfather and mother, and be united with his wife, and they will become\none flesh." This marriage relationship is the only sexual\nrelationship which God blesses and sanctions. He regulates and\nprotects the marriage of man and woman, and even uses it as a picture\nof the relationship between himself and his church. But we find not\none word of blessing or regulation for a sexual relationship between \ntwo men, or between two women.\n\nEverything else that we find in the Bible about sexuality derives from\nor expresses God\'s will in instituting and blessing marriage. Thus\nthe Levitical code, which was given only to the Jews, forbade incest,\nhomosexuality, bestiality; the Ten Commandments forbade adultery and\nthe coveting of our neighbor\'s wife; other commandments forbade rape.\nThe men of Sodom and Gomorrah were regarded as sexually immoral and\nperverse (Jude 7) because they abandoned and/or polluted the marriage\nrelationship. Thus also Paul regarded homosexuality as `unnatural\',\nRomans 1:26,27--not because this was simply Paul\'s opinion,\nbut because it was contrary to God\'s purpose in creating us\nmale and female.\n \nMichael> Christians, no doubt very sincere ones, keep showing up here\nMichael> and in every corner of USENET and the world, and ALL they\nMichael> ever do is spout these same old verses (which they obviously\nMichael> have never thought about, maybe never even read), in TOTAL\nMichael> ignorance of the issues raised, slandering us with the vilest\nMichael> charges of child abuse or whatever their perfervid minds can\nMichael> manage to conjure up, tossing out red herrings with (they\nMichael> suppose) great emotional force to cause readers to dismiss\nMichael> our witness without even taking the trouble to find out what\nMichael> it is.\n\nReally, have you no better response to `slander\' than more\nslander?\n\nDavid H. Wagner\t\t\t"The day is surely drawing near\na confessional Lutheran\t\tWhen God\'s Son, the Annointed,\n\t\t\t\tShall with great majesty appear\n\t\t\t\tAs Judge of all appointed.\n\t\t\t\tAll mirth and laughter then shall\n\t\t\t\t\tcease\n\t\t\t\tWhen flames on flames will still\n\t\t\t\t\tincrease\n\t\t\t\tAs Scripture truly teacheth."\n\t\t\t\t--"Es ist gewisslich an der Zeit" v. 1\n\t\t\t\t--Bartholomaeus Ringwaldt, 1586\n',
'From: Nanci Ann Miller <nm0w+@andrew.cmu.edu>\nSubject: Books\nOrganization: Sponsored account, School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA\nLines: 23\n\t<EDM.93Apr20145436@gocart.twisto.compaq.com>\nNNTP-Posting-Host: andrew.cmu.edu\nIn-Reply-To: <EDM.93Apr20145436@gocart.twisto.compaq.com>\n\nedm@twisto.compaq.com (Ed McCreary) writes:\n> While we\'re on the topic of books, has anyone else noticed that Paine\'s\n> "The Age of Reason" is hard to find. I\'ve been wanting to pick up\n> a copy for a while, but not bad enough to mail order it. I\'ve noticed\n> though that none of the bookstores I go to seem to carry it. I thought\n> this was supposed to be classic. What\'s the deal?\n\nActually, I\'ve got an entire list of books written by various atheist\nauthors and I went to the largest bookstore in my area (Pittsburgh) and\ncouldn\'t find _any_ of them. What section of the bookstore do you find\nthese kinds of books in? Do you have to look in an "alternative" bookstore\nfor most of them? Any help would be appreciated (I can send you the list\nif you want).\n\nThanks,\nNanci\n.........................................................................\nIf you know (and are SURE of) the author of this quote, please send me\nemail (nm0w+@andrew.cmu.edu):\nThe fate of the country does not depend on what kind of paper you drop into\nthe ballot box once a year, but on what kind of man you drop from your\nchamber into the street every morning.\n\n',
'From: lioness@maple.circa.ufl.edu\nSubject: Tex texture map format?\nOrganization: Center for Instructional and Research Computing Activities\nLines: 9\nReply-To: LIONESS@ufcc.ufl.edu\nNNTP-Posting-Host: maple.circa.ufl.edu\n\n\nI was at avalon today and found texture maps in some "tex" and "txc"\nformat, something I\'ve never encountered before. These are obviously\nnot tex or LaTeX files.\n\nIF you have a clue how I can convert these to something\nreasonable, please let me know.\n\nBrian\n',
'From: turpin@cs.utexas.edu (Russell Turpin)\nSubject: Re: History & texts (was: Ancient references to Christianity)\nOrganization: CS Dept, University of Texas at Austin\nLines: 14\nNNTP-Posting-Host: saltillo.cs.utexas.edu\nSummary: I believe Maharishi is a title.\n\n-*----\nI wrote:\n>> The diaries of the followers of the Maharishi, formerly of\n>> Oregon, are historical evidence. \n\nIn article <2944756297.1.p00261@psilink.com> "Robert Knowles" <p00261@psilink.com> writes:\n> Are you confusing Bhagwan Rajneesh (sp?) with the Maharishi Mahesh Yogi\n> here by any chance?\n\nI believe that Maharishi is titular. (Someone please correct me if \nI am wrong.) Thus, Maharishi Rajneesh is a different person from\nMaharishi Mahesh, but they are both Maharishis.\n\nRussell\n',
"From: SFB2763@MVS.draper.com (Eileen Bauer)\nSubject: Re: thyroidal deficiency\nNntp-Posting-Host: mvs.draper.com\nOrganization: Draper Laboratory\nLines: 43\n\nIn article <1993Apr30.211625.568@adobe.com>,\nabruno@adobe (Andrea Bruno) writes:\n\n>\n>In article <19930430140738SFB2763@MVS.draper.com> SFB2763@MVS.draper.com\n>(Eileen Bauer) writes:\n>> Thyroxin controls energy production which explains sleepiness, coldness,\n>> and weight gain. There is also water retention (possibly around heart),\n>> changes in vision, and coarser hair and skin among other things.\n>\n>Is there any relation between thyroid deficiency and depression?\n\nPerhaps the listlessness caused by thyroid deficiency could mimic\ndepression, or feeling unable to do anything could cause one to get\ndepressed, but I know of no specific effect on the brain caused by the\nthyroid that would cause depression. Note that weight gain is usually\na symptom of both. Simple blood tests would indicate if a thyroid\ncondition is present.\n\nI don't know if depression would cause a reduction in thyroid output,\nbut I would tend to doubt it. As far as I know clinical depression is\ncaused by a chemical imbalance in the brain, and that chemical\nimbalance has no direct effect on any other part of the body. A regular\neveryday depression IMHO should not cause a chemical imbalance in the\nbody at all.\n\nThe pituitary bases its secretions of Thyroid Stimulating Hormone (TSH)\non the level of circulating Thyroxin (there are two types T3 and T4 -\none is used as a reserve and is changed into the other -active- form in\nthe liver). The ratio of T3 & T4 can be affected by a number of other\nhormones (estrogen, for example). Naturally, changing activity of the\nbody's cells would cause changes in availabilty of free thyroxin, but\nthe liver and a healthy thyroid should be able to balance things out in\nshort order.\n\nGood sources for info on the thyroid are the Merk Manual (a physician's\nreference book ) although reading it is enough to get one depressed :-)\nand the Encyclopedia Brittanica (should be available in your local\nlibrary).\n\nI hope this has been of some help.\n\n-Eileen Bauer\n",
'From: hedrick@geneva.rutgers.edu\nSubject: FAQ essay on homosexuality\nLines: 452\n\nSomeone referred to my FAQ essay on homosexuality. Since it hasn\'t\nbeen posted for some time (and I\'ve modified it somewhat since the\nlast time), I\'m taking this opportunity to post it. There is another\nentry in the FAQ containing comments by some other contributors. They\ncan be retrieved from ftp.rutgers.edu as\npub/soc.religion.christian/others/homosexuality. It contains far\nmore detail on the exegetical issues than I give here, though\nprimarily from a conservative point of view.\n\n----------------------------\n\nThis posting summarizes several issues involving homosexuality and\nChristians. This is a frequently asked question, so I do not post the\nquestion each time it occurs. Rather this is an attempt to summarize\nthe postings we get when we have a discussion. It summarizes\narguments for allowing Christian homosexuality, since most people\nasking the question already know the arguments against it. The most\ncommon -- but not the only -- question dealt with herein is "how can a\nChristian justify being a homosexual, given what the Bible says about\nit?"\n\nFirst, on the definition of \'homosexual\'. Many groups believe that\nthere is a homosexual "orientation", i.e. a sexual attraction to\nmembers of the same sex. This is distinguished from actual homosexual\nsexual activity. Homosexuals who abstain from sex are considered by\nmost groups to be acceptable. However in a lot of discussion, the\nterm \'homosexual\' means someone actually engaging in homosexual sex.\nThis is generally not accepted outside the most \'liberal\' groups. In\nthis paper I\'m going to use \'homosexual\' as meaning a person engaging\nin sexual acts with another of the same sex. I haven\'t heard of any\nBiblical argument against a person with homosexual orientation who\nremains celebate.\n\nI think most people now admit that there is a predisposition to be\nhomosexual. This is often called a \'homosexual orientation\'. It is\nnot known whether it is genetic or environmental. There is evidence\nsuggesting each. The best evidence I\'ve seen is that homosexuality is\nnot a single phenomenon, but has a number of different causes. One of\nthem is probably genetic. There are several groups that try to help\npeople move from being homosexual to heterosexual. The best-known is\nExodus International". The reports I\'ve seen (and I haven\'t read the\ndetailed literature, just the summary in the minority opinion to the\nPresbyterian Church\'s infamous report on human sexuality) suggest that\nthese programs have very low success rates, and that there are\nquestions about how real even the successes are. But there certainly\nare people who say they have converted. However this issue is not as\nimportant as it sounds. Those who believe homosexuality is wrong\nbelieve it is intrinsically wrong, defined as such by God. The fact\nthat it\'s hard to get out of being a homosexual is no more relevant\nthan the fact that it\'s hard to escape from being a drug addict. If\nit\'s wrong, it\'s wrong. It may affect how we deal with people though.\nIf it\'s very difficult to change, this may tend to make us more\nwilling to forgive it.\n\nOne more general background issue: It\'s common to quote a figure that\n10% of the population is homosexual. I asked one of our experts where\nthis came from. Here\'s his response: Kinsey (see below) is the source\nof the figure 10 percent. He defines sexuality by behavior, not by\norientation, and ranked all persons on a scale from Zero (completely\nheterosexual) to 6 (completely heterosexual). According to Kinsey,\none-third of all male adults have had at least one experience of\norgasm homosexually post puberty. Ten percent of all adult males have\nmost of their experiences of homosexually. That was in 1948. The\npercentages held true in a followup study done by the Kinsey\nInstitute, based on data in the early seventies but not published\nuntil the early 80s or so, by Bell and Weinberg, I believe. I can\'t\nput my hand on this latter reference, but here is the online\ninformation for Kinsey\'s own study as it appears in IRIS, the catalog\nat Rutgers:\n AUTHOR Kinsey, Alfred Charles, 1894-1956.\n TITLE Sexual behavior in the human male [by] Alfred C. Kinsey. Wardell B.\n Pomeroy [and] Clyde E. Martin.\nPUBLISHER Philadelphia, W. B. Saunders Co., 1948.\n DESCRIP xv, 804 p. diagrs. 24 cm.\n NOTES "Based on surveys made by members of the staff of Indiana\n\t University, and supported by the National Research Council\'s \n\t Committee for Research on Problems of Sex by means of funds \n\t contributed by the Medical Division of the Rockefeller Foundation."\n\t * Bibliography: p. 766-787.\nOTHER AUT Pomeroy, Wardell Baxter, joint author. * Martin, Clyde Eugene,\n\t joint author.\n SUBJECTS Sex. * U. S. -- Moral Conditions.\n LC CARD 48005195\nThis figure is widely used in all scholarly discussions and has even\nbeen found to hold true in several other cultures, as noted in the\nrecent NEWSWEEK coverstory "Is this child gay?" (Feb. 24, 1992). A\njournalist is running the rounds of talk shows this season promoting\nher book that allegedly refutes Kinsey\'s study, but the scholarly\nworld seems to take her for a kook......\n\nI\'ve seen some objections to the Kinsey\'s study, but not in enough\ndetail to include here. (If someone would like to contribute another\nview, I\'d be willing to include it.)\n\nMost Christians believe homosexuality (at least genital sex) is wrong.\nNot all, however. A few denominations accept it. The Metropolitan\nCommunity Churches is the best-known -- it was formed specifically to\naccept homosexuals. However the United Church of Christ also allows\nit, and I think a couple of other groups may as well. The Episcopal\nChurch seems to accept it some areas but not others. In churches that\nhave congregational government, you\'ll find a few congregations that\naccept it (even among Southern Baptists, though the number is probably\nonly one or two congregations). But these are unusual -- few churches\npermit homosexual church leaders. How carefully they enforce this is\nanother issue. I don\'t have any doubt that there are homosexual\npastors of just about every denomination, some more open than others.\n\nAs to the arguments over the Biblical and other issues, here\'s an\nattempt to summarize the issues:\n\nThe most commonly cited reference by those favoring acceptance of\nhomosexuality in previous discussions has been John Boswell:\n"Christianity, Social Tolerance, and Homosexuality", U Chicago Press,\n1980.\n\nThe argument against is pretty clear. There are several explicit laws\nin the OT, e.g. Leviticus 20:13, and in Rom 1 Paul seems pretty negative on\nhomosexuality. Beyond these references, there are some debates. Some\npassages often cited on the subject probably are not relevant. E.g.\nthe sin which the inhabitants of Sodom proposed to carry out was\nhomosexual *rape*, not homosexual activity between consenting adults.\n(There\'s even some question whether it was homosexual, since the\nentities involved were angels.) It was particularly horrifying\nbecause it involved guests, and the responsibility towards guests in\nthat culture was very strong. (This is probably the reason Lot\noffered his daughter -- it was better to give up his daughter than to\nallow his guests to be attacked.) If you look through a concordance\nfor references to Sodom elsewhere in the Bible, you\'ll see that few\nseem to imply that homosexuality was their sin. There\'s a Jewish\ninterpretive tradition that the major sin was abuse of guests. At any\nrate, there\'s no debate that homosexual *rape* is wrong.\n\nI do not discuss Leviticus because the law there is part of a set\nof laws that most Christians do not consider binding. So unless NT\njustification can be found, Lev. alone would not settle the issue.\n\nThe NT references are all in Paul\'s letters. A number of the\nreferences from Paul are lists of sins in which the words are fairly\nvague. Boswell argues that the words occuring in these lists do not\nmean homosexual. Here\'s what he says: The two Greek words that appear\nin the lists (i.e. I Cor 6:9 and I Tim 1:10) are /malakos/ and\n/arsenokoitai/. Unfortunately it is not entirely clear what the words\nactually mean. /malakos/, with a basic meaning of soft, has a variety\nof metaphorical meanings in ethical writing. Boswell suggests\n"wanton" as a likely equivalent. He also reports that the unanimous\ninterpretation of the Church, including Greek-speaking Christians, was\nthat in this passage it referred to masturbation, a meaning that has\nvanished only in the 20th Cent., as that practice has come to be less\nfrowned-upon. (He cites references as late as the 1967 edition of the\nCatholic Encyclopedia that identify it as masturbation.) He\ntranslates /arsenokotai/ as male prostitute, giving evidence that none\nof the church fathers understood the term as referring to\nhomosexuality in general. A more technical meaning, suggested by the\nearly Latin translations, would be "active mode homosexual male\nprostitute", but in his view Paul did not intend it so technically.\n\nFor a more conservative view, I consulted Gordon Fee\'s commentary on I\nCor. He cites evidence that /malakos/ often meant effeminate.\nHowever Boswell warns us that in Greek culture effeminate is not\nnecessarily synonymous with homosexual, though it may be associated\nwith some kinds of homosexual behavior. Given what Boswell and Fee\nsay taken together, I suspect that the term is simply not very\ndefinite, and that while it applies to homosexuals in some cases, it\nisn\'t a general term for homosexuality. While Fee argues against\nBoswell with /arsenokotai/ as well, he ends up suggesting a\ntranslation that seems essentially the same. The big problem with it\nis that the word is almost never used. Paul\'s writing is the first\noccurence. The fact that the word is clearly composed of "male" and\n"f**k" unfortunately doesn\'t quite tell us the meaning, since it\ndoesn\'t tell us whether the male is the subject or object of the\naction. Examples of compound words formed either way can be given.\nIn theory it could refer to rapists, etc. It\'s dangerous to base\nmeaning purely on etymology, or you\'ll conclude that "goodbye" is a\nreligious expression because it\'s based on "God by with ye". However\nsince Boswell, Fee, and NIV seem to agree on "homosexual male\nprostitute", that seems as good a guess as any. Note that this\ntranslation misses the strong vulgarity of the term however (something\nwhich Fee and Boswell agree on, but do not attempt to reproduce in\ntheir translation).\n\nIn my opinion, the strongest NT reference to homosexuality is Romans\n1. Boswell points out that Rom 1 speaks of homosexuality as something\nthat happened to people who were naturally heterosexual, as a result\nof their corruption due to worshipping false gods. One could argue\nthat this is simply an example: that if a homosexual worshipped false\ngods, he would also fall into degradation and perhaps become\nheterosexual. However I find this argument somewhat forced, and in\nfact our homosexual readers have not seriously proposed that this is\nwhat Paul meant.\n\nHowever I am not convinced that Rom 1 is sufficient to create a law\nagainst homosexuality for Christians. What Paul is describing in Rom\n1 is not homosexuality among Christians -- it\'s homosexuality that\nappeared among idolaters as one part of a whole package of wickedness.\nDespite the impression left by his impassioned rhetoric, I\'m sure Paul\ndoes not believe that pagans completely abandoned heterosexual sex.\nGiven his description of their situation, I rather assume that their\nheterosexual sex would also be debased and shameless. So yes, I do\nbelieve that this passage indicates a negative view of homosexuality.\nBut in all fairness, the "shameless" nature of their acts is a\nreflection of the general spiritual state of the people, and not a\nspecific feature of homosexuality.\n\nMy overall view of the situation is the following: I think we have\nenough evidence to be confident that Paul disapproved of\nhomosexuality. Rom 1 seems clear. While I Cor 6:9 and I Tim 1:10 are\nnot unambiguous and general condemnations of homosexuality, they do\nnot seem like wording that would come from someone who approved of\nhomosexuality or even considered it acceptable in some cases. On the\nother hand, none of these passages contains explicit teachings on the\nsubject. Rom 1 is really about idolatry. It refers to homosexuality\nin passing.\n\nThe result of this situation is that people interpret these passages\nin light of their general approach to Scripture. For those who look\nto Scripture for laws about issues such as this, it not surprising\nthat they would consider these passages to be NT endorsement of the OT\nprohibition. For those whose approach to the Bible is more liberal,\nit is not surprising that they regard Paul\'s negative view of\nhomosexuality as something that he took from his Jewish upbringing\nwithout any serious reexamination in the light of the Gospel. As\nreaders of this group know by now, the assumptions behind these\napproaches are so radically different that people tend to foam at the\nmouth when they see the opposing view described. There\'s not a lot I\ncan do as moderator about such a situation.\n\nA number of discussions in the past centered around the sort of\ndetailed exegesis of texts that is described above. However in fact\nI\'m not convinced that defenders of homosexuality actually base their\nown beliefs on such analyses. The real issue seems to rest on the\nquestion of whether Paul\'s judgement should apply to modern\nhomosexuality.\n\nOne commonly made claim is that Paul had simply never faced the kinds\nof questions we are trying to deal with. He encountered homosexuality\nonly in contexts where most people would probably agree that it was\nwrong. He had never faced the experience of Christians who try to act\n"straight" and fail, and he had never faced Christians who are trying\nto define a Christian homosexuality, which fits with general Christian\nideals of fidelity and of seeing sexuality as a mirror of the\nrelationship between God and man. It is unfair to take Paul\'s\njudgement on homosexuality among idolaters and use it to make\njudgements on these questions.\n\nAnother is the following: In Paul\'s time homosexuality was associated\nwith a number of things that Christians would not find acceptable. It\nwas part of temple prostitution. Among private citizens, it often\noccured between adults and children or free people and slaves. I\'m\nnot in a position to say that it always did, but there are some\nreasons to think so. The ancients distinguished between the active\nand passive partner. It was considered disgraceful for a free adult\nto act as the passive partner. (This is the reason that an active\nmode homosexual prostitute would be considered disgraceful. His\ncustomers would all be people who enjoyed the passive role.) This\nsupports the idea that it would tend not to be engaged in between two\nfree adult males, at least not without some degree of scandal.\nClearly Christian homosexuals would not condone sex with children,\nslaves, or others who are not in a position to be fully responsible\npartners. (However Fee\'s commentary on I Cor cites some examples from\nancient literature of homosexual relationships that do seem to involve\nfree adults in a reasonably symmetrical way. Thus the considerations\nin this paragraph shouldn\'t be pushed too far. Homosexuality may have\nbeen discredited for Jews by some of these associations, but there\nsurely must be been cases that were not prostitutes and did not\ninvolve slaves or children.)\n\nSome people have argued that AIDS is a judgement against\nhomosexuality. I\'d like to point out that AIDS is transmitted by\npromiscuous sex, both homosexual and heterosexual. Someone who has a\nhomosexual relationship that meets Christian criteria for marriage is\nnot at risk for AIDS.\n\nNote that there is good reason from Paul\'s general approach to doubt\nthat he would concede homosexuality as a fully equal alternative,\napart from any specific statements on homosexuality. I believe his\nuse of the Genesis story would lead him to regard heterosexual\nmarriage as what God ordained.\n\nHowever the way Paul deals with pastoral questions provides a warning\nagainst being too quick to deal with this issue legally.\n\nI claim that the question of how to counsel homosexual Christians is\nnot entirely a theological issue, but also a pastoral one. Paul\'s\ntendency, as we can see in issues such as eating meat and celebrating\nholidays, is to be uncompromising on principle but in pastoral issues\nto look very carefully at the good of the people involved, and to\navoid insisting on perfection when it would be personally damaging.\nFor example, while Paul clearly believed that it was acceptable to eat\nmeat, he wanted us to avoid pushing people into doing an action about\nwhich they had personal qualms. For another example, Paul obviously\nwould have preferred to see people (at least in some circumstances)\nremain unmarried. Yet if they were unable to do so, he certainly\nwould rather see them married than in a state where they might be\ntempted to fornication.\n\nI believe one could take a view like this even while accepting the\nviews Paul expressed in Rom 1. One may believe that homosexuality is\nnot what God intended, that it occured as a result of sin, but still\nconclude that at times we have to live with it. Note that in the\ncreation story work enters human life as a result of sin. This\ndoesn\'t mean that Christians can stop working when we are saved. The\nquestion is whether you believe that homosexuality is in itself sinful\nor whether you believe that it\'s a misfortune that is in a broad sense\ndue to human sinfulness. If you\'re willing to consider the latter\napproach, then it becomes a pastoral judgement whether there is more\ndamage caused by finding a way to live with it or trying to cure it.\nThe dangers of trying to cure it are that the attempt most often\nfails, and when it does, you end up with damage ranging from\npsychological damage to suicide, as well as broken marriages when\nattempts at living as a heterosexual fail.\n\nThis is going to depend upon one\'s assessment of the inherent nature\nof homosexuality. If you believe it is a very serious wrong, then you\nmay be willing to run high risks of serious damage to get rid of it.\nClearly we do not generally suggest that people live with a tendency\nto steal or with drug addiction, even though attempts to cure these\nconditions are also very difficult. However these conditions are\nintrinsically damaging in a way that is not so obvious for\nhomosexuality. (Many problems associated with homosexuality are\nactually problems of promiscuity, not homosexuality. This includes\nAIDS. I take for granted that the only sort of homosexual\nrelationships a Christian would consider allowing would be equivalent\nto Christian heterosexual relationships.)\n\nIn the course of discussing this over the last decade or so, we\'ve\nheard a lot of personal testimony from fellow Christians who are in\nthis situation. I\'ve also seen summaries of various research and the\nresults of various efforts for "conversion". (Aside from the\nPresbyterian report mentioned above, there\'s an FAQ that summarizes\nour readers\' reports on this question.) The evidence is that\nlong-term success in changing orientation is rare enough to be on a\npar with healing miracles. The danger in advising Christians to\ndepend upon such a change is clear: When "conversion" doesn\'t happen,\nwhich is almost always, the people are often left in despair, feeling\nexcluded from a Church that has nothing more to say but a requirement\nof life-long celibacy. Paul recognized (though in a different\ncontext) that such a demand is not practical for most people, and I\nthink the history of clerical celibacy has strongly reinforced that\njudgement. The practical result is that homosexuals end up in the gay\nsex clubs and the rest of the sordid side of homosexuality. Maybe\nhomosexuality isn\'t God\'s original ideal, but I can well imagine Paul\npreferring to see people in long-term, committed Christian\nrelationships than promiscuity. As with work -- which Genesis\nsuggests wasn\'t part of God\'s original ideal either -- I think such\nrelationships can still be a vehicle for people sharing God\'s love\nwith each other.\n\nThere\'s an issue of Biblical interpretation underlying this\ndiscussion. The issue is that of "cultural relativism". That is,\nwhen Paul says that something is wrong, should this be taken as an\neternal statement, or are things wrong because of specific situations\nin the culture of the time? Conservative Christians generally insist\non taking prohibitions as absolute, since otherwise the Bible becomes\nsubjective -- what is to stop us from considering everything in it as\nrelative?\n\nWhen looking at this issue, it\'s worth noting that no one completely\nrejects the concept of cultural relativism. There are a number of\njudgements in the New Testament that even conservative Christians\nconsider to be relative. The following judgements are at least as\nclear in the Bible as anything said on homosexuality:\n\n - prohibition against charging interest (this occurs 18 times in\n\tthe OT -- it\'s not in the NT, but I mention it here because\n\tuntil relatively recently the Church did consider it binding\n\ton Christians)\n - prohibition against swearing oaths\n - endorsement of slavery as an institution\n - judgement of tax collectors as sinner\n\nWe do not regard these items as binding. In most cases, I believe the\nargument is essentially one of cultural relativism. Briefly:\n\n - prohibition of interest is appropriate to a specific\n\tagrarian society that the Bible was trying to build,\n\tbut not to our market economy.\n - few people believe that American judicial oaths have the\n\tsame characteristics as the kind of oaths Jesus was\n\tconcerned about\n - most people believe that Paul was simply telling people\n\thow to live within slavery, but not endorsing it as\n\tan institution\n - for people believe that the IRS is morally equivalent to\n\tRoman tax farming\n\nThe point I\'m trying to make is that before applying Biblical\nprohibitions to the 20th Cent., we need to look at whether the 20th\nCent. actions are the same. When Christian homosexuals say that their\nrelationships are different than the Greek homosexuality that Paul\nwould have been familiar with, this is exactly the same kind of\nargument that is being made about judicial oaths and tax collectors.\nUntil fairly recently Christians prohibited taking of interest, and\nmany Christians regarded slavery as divinely endorsed. (Indeed,\nslavery is one of the more common metaphors for the relationship\nbetween God and human beings -- Christians are often called servants\nor slaves of God.)\n\nI am not trying to say that everything in the Bible is culturally\nrelative. Rather, I\'m trying to say that *some* things are, and\ntherefore it is not enough to say that because something appears in\nthe Bible, that ends the discussion. We need to look at whether the\naction we\'re talking about now has the same moral implications as the\none that the Bible was talking about. If Christians want to argue\nthat there are reasons to think that the prohibitions against\nhomosexuality are still binding, I\'m willing to listen. Those who\nclaim that the question doesn\'t need to be looked at are kidding\nthemselves (unless they are part of the small minority who really obey\nall the rules listed above).\n\nOne thing that worries me is the great emotions that this issue\ncreates. When you consider the weakness of the Biblical evidence --\nsome laws in Leviticus, a passage in Rom whose subject matter is\nreally idolatry rather than homosexuality, and a couple of lists whose\nwords are ambiguous -- the amount of concern this is raising among\nChristians seems rather out of proportion. This should suggest to\npeople that there are reasons other than simply Biblical involved.\nThis is true on both sides -- clearly homosexual Christians are as\nstrongly motivated to find ways of discrediting the Biblical arguments\nas conservative Christians are to find Biblical arguments. But I\ncan\'t help feeling that the Bible is being used by both sides as a way\nof justifying attitudes which come from other sources. This is a\ndangerous situation for Christians.\n\nOn the other side of the issue, I would like to note some problems I\nhave with the pro-homosexual position as it is commonly presented.\nOne of the most common arguments is that homosexuality is biologically\ndetermined. I.e. "God made me homosexual", and I have no choice. I\nthink "God made me homosexual" is a fine view for people who already\nbelieve on other grounds that homosexuality is acceptable. But I\ndon\'t see it as an argument for acceptability.\n\nMany people think that alcholism is largely biological, and drug\naddiction may turn out to be as well. That doesn\'t mean it\'s OK.\nMost of us have particular things we tend to do wrong. Some people\nget angry easily. Others tend to be arrogant. Others tend to be\nattraced to women who are married to someone else. Homosexuality (if\nwe view it as wrong) wouldn\'t be different than any of these other\nthings. If we are going to follow God, we all end up at one time or\nanother having to work to overcome bad habits and particular\ntemptations that cause us problems. None of us can sit back and say\nthat because God made us the way we are we can just relax. As Jesus\nsaid, we all have to take up our cross daily. This concept of dying\nto self (which also appears throughout Paul\'s letters) seems to\nsuggest that there are going to be things about ourselves that we we\nare called on not to accept. Paul\'s letters and the experience of\nChristians throughout history show us that sin is ingrained in us, and\nthe battle against it is lifelong and difficult. The fact that\nhomosexuality is difficult to fight doesn\'t necessarily say it\'s OK.\nMaybe this isn\'t the place where we have to die to self. But I\'d like\nto make sure that those who think it isn\'t are fighting the battle\nsomewhere else, and not rejecting the concept that all Christians have\nto fight against the deeply engrained habits of sin.\n',
'From: db7n+@andrew.cmu.edu (D. Andrew Byler)\nSubject: Re: Deuterocanonicals, esp. Sirach\nOrganization: Freshman, Civil Engineering, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA\nLines: 21\n\nMichael Siemon writes:\n\n>Furthermore, it is inaccurate to say that the Reformers "threw out" these\n>books. Basically, they just placed them in a secondary status (as Jerome\n>had already done), but with the additional warning that doctrine should\n>not be based on citations from these ALONE.\n\nProtestants love to play up Jerome for all he is worth. They should\nremeber that after the Decree of Pope St. Damsus I, Jerome did not\nhesitate in accpeting the deuteroncanon, and quoted them as Scripture in\nhis later writings. And as I have already pointed out, in a previous\nletter on this subject, the Catholic Church has accepted the\ndeuterocanon from the beginning. And the Protestants in the 1500\'s all\nof a sudden revived the old theory of some, condemned by Pope, Council,\nand Church, that the deuterocanon were not inspired.\n\nAgain, why must the Church of Jesus Christ adopt the canon of the\nunbelieving Jews, drawn up in Jamnia in 90 AD, in countering the\nChristian use of the Septuagint. ^^^^^\n\nAndy Byler\n',
'From: hoss@panix.com (Felix the Cat)\nSubject: Med school admission\nOrganization: PANIX Public Access Unix, NYC\nX-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]\nLines: 17\n\n\nhi all, Ive applied for the class of 93 at quite a number of schools (20)\nand have gotten 13 rejects, 4 interviews and 3 no responses.\nAny one know when the heck these people send out their acceptance letters?\nAccording to the med school admissions book theyre supposed to send out\nthe number of their class in acceptances by mid March. Whats going on... I\nam losing my sanity checking my mailbox every day.\n\nAlso does anyone have some useful alternatives in case i dont get in, i\nkind of looked into Chiropractic and Podiatry but they really dont\ninterest me. Thanks.\n\n-- \n /\\ _ /\\ | Felix The Cat\n | 0 0 |-------\\== The Wonderful, Wonderful Cat! \n \\==@==/\\ ____\\ | ===============================\n Meow!--- \\_-_/ || || hoss@panix.com\n',
'From: Fil.Sapienza@med.umich.edu (Fil Sapienza)\nSubject: Re: Why do people become atheists?\nOrganization: University of Michigan Hospitals\nLines: 24\n\nIn article <May.7.01.09.44.1993.14556@athos.rutgers.edu> maxwell c muir,\nmuirm@argon.gas.organpipe.uug.arizona.edu writes:\n>of Faith (if you want to know, I feel that faith is intellectually\n>dishonest). \n\nI\'d appreciate some support for this statement. I\'m not sure\nit really makes sense to me.\n\n>The ambiguity of religious beliefs, an unwillingness to take\n>Pascal\'s Wager, \n\nI\'ve heard this frequently - what exactly is Pascal\'s wager?\n\n>\tDo I sound "broken" to you?\n\nI don\'t know. You point out that your mother\'s treatment upset you,\nand see inconsistencies in various religions. I\'m not sure if that\nconstitutes broken-ness or not. It certainly consititutes \ndisillusionment.\n--\nFilipp Sapienza\nDepartment of Technology Services\nUniversity of Michigan Hospitals - Surgery\nFil.Sapienza@med.umich.edu\n',
'From: u7711501@bicmos.ee.nctu.edu.tw (jih-shin ho)\nSubject: disp140 [0/7]\nOrganization: National Chiao Tung University\nX-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]\nLines: 299\n\n\nI have posted DISP140.ZIP to alt.binaries.pictures.utilities.\nI will upload this package to SIMTEL20 later.\n\n****** You may distribute this program freely for non-commercial use\n if no fee is gained.\n****** There is no warranty. The author is not responsible for any\n damage caused by this program.\n\nImportant changes since Version 1.35:\n Added support for IRIS.\n Support Mix/Concat. two images.\n Added support for \'batch conversion\'.\n Added support for \'load/save palette table\'.\n Added support for \'edge enhance\'.\n Added support for \'crop one line\'.\n Added support for \'negate image\'.\n New color quantization option.\n Fix some minor bugs.\n\n(1) Introduction:\n This program can let you READ, WRITE and DISPLAY images with different\n formats. It also let you do some special effects(ROTATION, DITHERING ....)\n on image. Its main purpose is to let you convert image among different\n formts.\n Include simple file management system.\n Support \'slide show\'.\n+ Support \'batch conversion\'.\n There is NO LIMIT on image size.\n Currently this program supports 8, 15, 16, 24 bits display.\n If you want to use HiColor or TrueColor, you must have VESA driver.\n If you want to modify video driver, please read section (8).\n\n\n(2) Hardware Requirement:\n PC 386 or better. MSDOS 3.3 or higher.\n min amount of ram is 4M bytes(Maybe less memory will also work).\n (I recommend min 8M bytes for better performance).\n Hard disk for swapping(virtual memory).\n\n The following description is borrowed from DJGPP.\n\n Supported Wares:\n\n * Up to 128M of extended memory (expanded under VCPI)\n * Up to 128M of disk space used for swapping\n * SuperVGA 256-color mode up to 1024x768\n * 80387\n * XMS & VDISK memory allocation strategies\n * VCPI programs, such as QEMM, DESQview, and 386MAX\n\n Unsupported:\n\n * DPMI\n * Microsoft Windows\n\n Features: 80387 emulator, 32-bit unix-ish environment, flat memory\n model, SVGA graphics.\n\n\n(3) Installation:\n Video drivers, emu387 and go32.exe are borrowed from DJGPP.\n (If you use Western Digital VGA chips, read readme.wd)\n (This GO32.EXE is a modified version for vesa and is COMPLETELY compatible\n with original version)\n *** But some people report that this go32.exe is not compatible with\n other DJGPP programs in their system. If you encounter this problem,\n DON\'T put go32.exe within search path.\n\n *** Please read runme.bat for how to run this program.\n\n If you choose xxxxx.grn as video driver, add \'nc 256\' to environment\n GO32.\n\n For example, go32=driver x:/xxxxx/xxxxx.grn nc 256\n\n If you don\'t have 80x87, add \'emu x:/xxxxx/emu387\' to environment GO32.\n\n For example, go32=driver x:/xxxxx/xxxxx.grd emu x:/xxxxx/emu387\n\n **** Notes: 1. I only test tr8900.grn, et4000.grn and vesa.grn.\n Other drivers are not tested.\n 2. I have modified et4000.grn to support 8, 15, 16, 24 bits\n display. You don\'t need to use vesa driver.\n If et4000.grn doesn\'t work, please try vesa.grn.\n 3. For those who want to use HiColor or TrueColor display,\n please use vesa.grn(except et4000 users).\n You can find vesa BIOS driver from :\n wuarchive.wustl.edu: /mirrors/msdos/graphics\n godzilla.cgl.rmit.oz.au: /kjb/MGL\n\n\n(4) Command Line Switch:\n\n Usage : display [-d|--display initial_display_type]\n [-s|--sort sort_method]\n [-h|-?]\n\n Display type: 8(SVGA,default), 15, 16(HiColor), 24(TrueColor)\n Sort method: \'name\', \'ext\'\n\n\n(5) Function Key:\n\n F2 : Change disk drive.\n\n CTRL-A -- CTRL-Z : change disk drive.\n\n F3 : Change filename mask. (See match.doc)\n\n F4 : Change parameters.\n\n F5 : Some effects on picture, eg. flip, rotate ....\n\n F7 : Make Directory.\n\n t : Tag file.\n\n + : Tag group files. (See match.doc)\n\n T : Tag all files.\n\n u : Untag file.\n\n - : Untag group files. (See match.doc)\n\n U : Untag all files.\n\n Ins : Change display type (8,15,16,24) in \'read\' & \'screen\' menu.\n\n F6,m,M : Move file(s).\n\n+ ALT-M : Move single file(ignore tag).\n\n F8,d,D : Delete file(s).\n\n+ ALT-D : Delete single file(ignore tag).\n\n r,R : Rename file.\n\n c,C : Copy File(s).\n\n+ ALT-C : Copy single file(ignore tag).\n\n z,Z : Display first 10 bytes in Ascii, Hex and Dec modes.\n\n f,F : Display disk free space.\n\n Page Up/Down : Move one page.\n\n TAB : Change processing target.\n\n Arrow keys, Home, End, Page Up, Page Down: Scroll image.\n Home: Left Most.\n End: Right Most.\n Page Up: Top Most.\n Page Down: Bottom Most.\n in \'screen\' & \'effect\' menu :\n Left,Right arrow: Change display type(8, 15, 16, 24 bits).\n\n+ CTRL-Arrow keys : Crop image by one line(in graphics mode).\n\n s,S : Slide Show(show tagged files). ESCAPE to terminate.\n\n+ b,B : Batch conversion(convert tagged files to single format).\n\n+ w,W : Wait/Pause in slide show.\n\n ALT-X : Quit program without prompting.\n\n ALT-A : Reread directory.\n\n Escape : Abort function and return.\n\n\n(6) Support Format:\n\n Read: GIF(.gif), Japan MAG(.mag), Japan PIC(.pic), Sun Raster(.ras),\n Jpeg(.jpg), XBM(.xbm), Utah RLE(.rle), PBM(.pbm), PGM(.pgm),\n PPM(.ppm), PM(.pm), PCX(.pcx), Japan MKI(.mki), Tiff(.tif),\n Targa(.tga), XPM(.xpm), Mac Paint(.mac), GEM/IMG(.img),\n IFF/ILBM(.lbm), Window BMP(.bmp), QRT ray tracing(.qrt),\n Mac PICT(.pct), VIS(.vis), PDS(.pds), VIKING(.vik), VICAR(.vic),\n+ FITS(.fit), Usenix FACE(.fac), IRIS(.sgi).\n\n the extensions in () are standard extensions.\n\n Write: GIF, Sun Raster, Jpeg, XBM, PBM, PGM, PPM, PM, Tiff, Targa,\n XPM, Mac Paint, Ascii, Laser Jet, IFF/ILBM, Window BMP,\n+ Mac PICT, VIS, FITS, FACE, PCX, GEM/IMG, IRIS.\n\n All Read/Write support full color(8 bits), grey scale, b/w dither,\n and 24 bits image, if allowed for that format.\n\n\n(7) Detail:\n\n Initialization:\n Set default display type to highest display type.\n Find allowable screen resolution(for .grn video driver only).\n\n 1. When you run this program, you will enter \'read\' menu. Whthin this\n menu you can press any function key. If you move or copy\n files, you will enter \'write\' menu. the \'write\' menu is much like\n \'read\' menu, but only allow you to change directory.\n The header line in \'read\' menu includes "(d:xx,f:xx,t:xx)".\n d : display type. f: number of files. t: number of tagged files.\n pressing SPACE in \'read\' menu will let you select which format to use\n for reading current file.\n pressing RETURN in \'read\' menu will let you reading current file. This\n program will automatically determine which format this file is.\n The procedure is: First, check magic number. If fail, check\n standard extension. Still fail, report error.\n pressing s or S in \'read\' menu will do \'Slide Show\'.\n If delay time is 0, program will wait until you hit a key\n (except ESCAPE).\n If any error occurs, program will make a beep.\n+ \'w\' or \'W\' to pause, any key to continue.\n ESCAPE to terminate.\n pressing Ins in \'read\' menu will change display type.\n pressing ALT-X in \'read\' menu will quit program without prompting.\n+ pressing F5 will turn on \'effect\' menu.\n\n 2. Once image file is successfully read, you will enter \'screen\' menu.\n You can do special effect on image.\n pressing RETURN: show image.\n in graphic mode, press RETURN, SPACE or ESCAPE to return to text\n mode.\n pressing TAB: change processing target. This program allows you to do\n special effects on 8-bit or 24-bit image.\n pressing Left,Right arrow: change display type. 8, 15, 16, 24 bits.\n pressing SPACE: save current image to file.\n B/W Dither: save as black/white image(1 bit).\n Grey Scale: save as grey image(8 bits).\n Full Color: save as color image(8 bits).\n True Color: save as 24-bit image.\n\n This program will ask you some questions if you want to write image\n to file. Some questions are format-dependent. Finally This program\n will prompt you a filename. If you want to save file under another\n directory other than current directory, please press SPACE. after\n pressing SPACE, you will enter \'write2\' menu. You can change\n directory to what you want. Then,\n\n pressing SPACE: this program will prompt you \'original\' filename.\n pressing RETURN: this program will prompt you \'selected\' filename\n (filename under bar).\n\n\n 3. This program supports 8, 15, 16, 24 bits display.\n\n 4. This Program is MEMORY GREEDY. If you don\'t have enough memory,\n the performance is poor.\n\n 5. If you want to save 8 bits image :\n try GIF then TIFF(LZW) then TARGA then Sun Raster then BMP then ...\n\n If you want to save 24 bits image (lossless):\n try TIFF(LZW) or TARGA or ILBM or Sun Raster\n (No one is better for true 24bits image)\n\n 6. I recommend Jpeg for storing 24 bits images, even 8 bits images.\n\n 7. Not all subroutines are fully tested\n\n 8. This document is not well written. If you have any PROBLEM, SUGGESTION,\n COMMENT about this program,\n Please send to u7711501@bicmos.ee.nctu.edu.tw (140.113.11.13).\n I need your suggestion to improve this program.\n (There is NO anonymous ftp on this site)\n\n\n(8) Tech. information:\n Program (user interface and some subroutines) written by Jih-Shin Ho.\n Some subroutines are borrowed from XV(2.21) and PBMPLUS(dec 91).\n Tiff(V3.2) and Jpeg(V4) reading/writing are through public domain\n libraries.\n Compiled with DJGPP.\n You can get whole DJGPP package from SIMTEL20 or mirror sites.\n For example, wuarchive.wustl.edu: /mirrors/msdos/djgpp\n\n\n(9) For Thoese who want to modify video driver:\n 1. get GRX source code from SIMTEL20 or mirror sites.\n 2. For HiColor and TrueColor:\n 15 bits : # of colors is set to 32768.\n 16 bits : # of colors is set to 0xc010.\n 24 bits : # of colors is set to 0xc018.\n\n\nAcknowledgment:\n I would like to thank the authors of XV and PBMPLUS for their permission\n to let me use their subroutines.\n Also I will thank the authors who write Tiff and Jpeg libraries.\n Thank DJ. Without DJGPP I can\'t do any thing on PC.\n\n\n Jih-Shin Ho\n u7711501@bicmos.ee.nctu.edu.tw\n',
"From: mmatusev@radford.vak12ed.edu (Melissa N. Matusevich)\nSubject: Re: Pregnency without sex?\nOrganization: Virginia's Public Education Network (Radford)\nLines: 5\n\nSpeaking of educational systems, I recently had a colleague\ntell me that the reason one of our fifth grade students is so\nphysically developed is because she was sexually abused as a younger\nchild. This, she went on to say, kicks the pituitary gland into\naction and causes puberty.\n",
'From: picl25@fsphy1.physics.fsu.edu (PICL account_25)\nSubject: Re: What\'s a bone scan?\nOrganization: Florida State University - School of Higher Thought\nNews-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.4-b1 \nReply-To: picl25@fsphy1.physics.fsu.edu\nLines: 42\n\nIn article <cindy.349@berkp.uadv.uci.edu>, cindy@berkp.uadv.uci.edu (Cindy Windham) writes...\n>My mother has been advised to have a bone scan performed? What is this\n>procedure for, and is it painful? She\'s been having leg and back pain\n>which her GP said was sciatica. Her oncologist listened to her symptoms\n>and said that it didn\'t sound like sciatica, and she should get a bone\n>scan. \n\nDo I assume correctly from the above aricle that your mother has a historyy\nof cancer? I was just wondeing, since you mentioned thhat she has an\noncologist.\n\nA bone scan is a nuclear scan. Thperson receivving the scan is gven a\ndose of a radioactive tracer, and an imaging device is used to track the\ndistribution of the tracer wwithin the body. The tracer is usually given\nintravenously. (IV) This means that the physician or his assistant will\ninsert a needle into a vein and inject medicine into the vein. \n\nAfter a few minutes has passed for the tracer to circulate through the\nbody, the person is scanned with an imaging device to detect high \nconcentrations of the tracer. The radiologist or doctor is looking for\nareas that take up more of the radioactive tracer or less of it.\n\nAs far as pain, the only pain comes from the needle stick that is required\nto start the IV line.\n\nWhat the doctor is probably looking for are changes in the bones that may\nhave resulted from cancer. This is also why I was wondering if your mother\nhas had cancer, since cancer can spread from one site and wind up in the\nskeletal system.\n\nI hope I have answered some of your questions. Feel free to e-mail me if\nyou have more questions related to the bone scan or anything else related\nto your mother\'s care. I\'m a newly graduated nurse, and I enjoy sharing\ninformation with other people to help them understand things that they did\nnot know about before.\n\nMy thoughts are with you both.\n\nElisa B. Hanson (picl25@fsphy1.physics.fsu.edu)\n"The chief function of the body is to carry the head around."\n --Albert Einstein\n\n',
"From: hbloom@moose.uvm.edu (*Heather*)\nSubject: re: earwax\nOrganization: University of Vermont -- Division of EMBA Computer Facility\nLines: 20\n\nHi Stephen\nEar wax is a healthy way to help prevent ear infections, both by preventing\na barrier and also with some antibiotic properties. Too much can block the\nexternal auditory canal (the hole in the outside of the ear) and cause some \nhearing problems. It is very simple, and safe, to remove excess wax on your\nown, or at your physician's office. You can take a syringe (no needles!) and\nfill it with 50% warm water (cold can cause fainting) and 50% OTC hydrogen\nperoxide. Then point the ear towards the ceiling ( about 45 degrees up)\nand insert the tip of the syringe (helps to have someone else do this!) and \nfirmly expell the solution. Depending on the size of the syringe and the\ntenacity of the wax, this could take several rinses. If you place a bowl \nunder the ear to catch the water, it will be much drier :-). You can buy\na syringe with a special tip at your local pharmacy, or just use whatever\nyou may have. If wax is old, it will be harder, and darker. You can try\nadding a few drops of olive oil into the ear during a shower to soften up\nthe wax. Do this for a couple days, then try syringing again. It is also\nsafe to point your ear up at the shower head, and allow the water to rinse\nit out.\nGood Luck\n-heather\n",
'From: zyda@cs.nps.navy.mil (Michael Zyda)\nSubject: ACM SIGGRAPH Registration Problem\nOrganization: Naval Postgraduate School, Monterey\nLines: 17\n\nA word of warning for those of you registering for SIGGRAPH \'93.\nI just received my registration form back in the mail with the\nenvelope marked "Return to sender. Moved - Left No Address.\nClosed PO Box". The address I used to register for SIGGRAPH \'93\nis the one printed on the registration form:\n\n ACM SIGGRAPH \'93\n PO Box 95316,\n Chicago, IL 60694-5316\n\nI printed the envelope in my best printing, honest but evidently\nSIGGRAPH \'93 has skipped town or moved?\n\nI ended up faxing my registration to: 312-321-6876. I hope that\nnumber is real!\n\n Michael Zyda\n',
'From: cesws@cc.newcastle.edu.au\nSubject: patches for SUNGKS4.1 ?\nLines: 17\nOrganization: University of Newcastle, AUSTRALIA\n\n\n\n\nDue to a number of bugs in GKS4.1 under SUNOS 4.1.3, I installed\npatches 100533-15 and 100755-01. Patch 100533-15 appears to\nwork fine and has fixed a number of problems. Patch 100755-01,\nhowever, which is required to fix a number of other annoying\nbugs, breaks with our applications.\n\nIs there a more recent revision of patch 10075?\n\nAny other ideas?\n\nScott Sloan email cesws@cc.newcastle.edu.au\nUniversity of Newcastle fax +61 49 216991\nNSW\nAustralia\n',
"From: fechter@enzian.gris.informatik.uni-tuebingen.de (Juergen Fechter)\nSubject: Alpha Kubota Graphic vs. SGI\nOrganization: InterNetNews at ZDV Uni-Tuebingen\nLines: 16\nNNTP-Posting-Host: enzian.gris.informatik.uni-tuebingen.de\n\n\nWho has experience with porting a GL-program to an Alpha APX \nworkstation with Kubota's Denali 3D-Graphic.\nIs there any problems?\nIs the real graphic-performance like a SGI R4000 Indigo XS24Z?\n\n\n~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~\n| Juergen Fechter | Universitaet Tuebingen, WSI/GRIS |\n| Office: [+49/0] (7071) 29-5464 | Auf der Morgenstelle 10, C9 |\n| Fax: [+49/0] (7071) 29-5466 | W-7400 Tuebingen, Germany |\n|---------------------------------------------------------------------------|\n| email: fechter@gris.informatik.uni-tuebingen.de |\n~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~\n\n\n",
'From: REXLEX@fnal.fnal.gov\nSubject: ARSENOKOITAI 2 -Bailey/Boswell\nOrganization: FNAL/AD/Net\nLines: 184\n\n[continuing with Dr. DeYoung\'s article-]\n \n SURVEY OF NEW INTERPRETATIONS OF ARSENOKOITAI\n\nD.S. Bailey\n\n D.S. Bailey was perhaps the trailblazer of new assessments of the meaning\nof arsenokoitai. He takes the term in I Cor 6:9 as denoting males who actively\nengage in homosexual acts, in contrast to malakoi ("effeminate"), those who\nengage passively in such acts.*4 However, he insists that Paul knew nothing\nof "inversion as an inherited trait, or an inherent condition due to\npsychological or glandular causes, and consequently regards all homosexual\npractice as evidence of perversion" (38). Hence Bailey limits the term\'s\nreference in Paul\'s works to acts alone and laments modern translations of the\nterm as "homosexuals." Bailey wants to distinguish between "the homosexual\n*condition* (which is morally neutral) and homosexual *practices*" [italics in\nsource]. Paul is precise in his terminology and Moffatt\'s translation\n"sodomites" best represents Paul\'s meaning in Bailey\'s judgment (39). Bailey\nclearly denies that the homosexual condition was known by biblical writers.\n\nJ. Boswell\n\n The most influential study of arsenokoitai among contemporary authors is\nthat of John Boswell.*5 Whereas the usual translation*6 of this term gives\nit either explicitly or implicitly an active sense, Boswell gives it a passive\nsense.\n\n In an extended discussion of the term (341-53), he cites "linguistic\nevidence and common sense" to support his conclusion that the word means "male\nsexual agents, i.e. active male prostitutes." His argument is that the arseno-\npart of the word is adjectival, not the object of the koitai which refers to\nbase sexual activity. Hence the term, according to Boswell, designates a male\nsexual person or male prostitute. He acknowledges, however, that most\ninterpret the composite term as active, meaning "those who sleep with, make\ntheir bed with, men." Boswell bases his interpretation on linguistics and the\nhistorical setting. He argues that in some compounds, such as paidomathes\n("child learner"), the paido- is the subject of manthano, and in others, such\nas paidoporos ("through which a child passes"), the paido- is neither subject\nnor object but simply a modifier without verbal significance. His point is\nthat each compound must be individually analyzed for its meaning. More\ndirectly, he maintains that compounds with the Attic form arreno- employ it\nobjectively while those with the Hellenistic arseno- use it as an adjective\n(343). Yet he admits exceptions to this distinction regarding arreno-.\n\n Boswell next appeals to the Latin of the time, namely drauci or exoleti. \nThese were male prostitutes having men or women as their objects. The Greek\narsenokoitai is the equivalent of the Latin drauci; the corresponding passive\nwould be parakoitai ("one who lies beside"), Boswell affirms. He claims that\narsenokoitai was the "most explicit word available to Paul for a male\nprostitute," since by Paul\'s time the Attic words pornos ("fornicator") and\nporneuon ("one committing fornication"), found also in the LXX, had been\nadopted "to refer to men who resorted to female prostitutes or simply committed\nfornication."*7\n\n In the absence of the term from pagan writers such as Herodotus, Plato,\nAristotle, and Plutarch, and from the Jewish writers Philo and Josephus,\nBoswell finds even more convincing evidence for his affirmation that\narsenokoitai "did not connote \'homosexual\' or even \'sodomite\' in the time of\nPaul" (346).*8 He also demonstrates its absence in Pseudo-Lucian, Sextus\nEmpiricus, and Libanius. He subsequently finds it lacking in "all discussions\nof homosexual relation" (346)*9 among Christian sources in Greek, including\nthe Didache, Tatian, Justin Martyr, Eusebius,*10 Clement of Alexandria,\nGregory of Nyssa, and John Chrysostom. Chrysostom is singled out for his\nomission as "final proof" that the word could not mean homosexuality.*11 \n\n Boswell next appeals to the omission of the texts of I Cor and I Tim from\ndiscussions of homosexuality among Latin church fathers (348).*12 Cited are\nTertullian, Arnobius, Lactantius, and Augustine. The last named uses\n"circumlocutions." Other Latin writers include Ausonius, Cyprian, and Minucius\nFelix. The term is also lacking in state and in church legislation. By the\nsixth century the term became confused and was applied to a variety of sexual\nactivities from child molesting to anal intercourse between a husband and wife\n(353).\n\n Having surveyed the sources, Boswell concludes, \n\n There is no reason to believe that either arsenokoitai or malakoi connoted\n homosexuality in the time of Paul or for centuries thereafter, and every\nreason\n to suppose that, whatever they came to mean, they were not determinative of\n Christian opinion on the morality of homosexual acts (353).\n\nIt is clear throughout that Boswell defines arsenokoitai to refer to male\nprostitutes. He even goes so far as to conclude that Paul would probably not\ndisapprove of "gay inclination," "gay relationships," "enduring love between\npersons of the same gender," or "same-sex eroticism" (112, 166-17).\n\n\n________________________________________________________\n4. D.S. Bailey, Homosexuality and the Western Christian Tradition. (London:\n1975) 38.\n5. J. Boswell, Christianity, Social Tolerance and Homosexuality (Chicago:\n1980).\n6. Several tranlation of I Tim 1:10 are: KJV, "them that defile themselves\nwith mankind"; ASV, "Abusers of themselves with men"; NASB, "homosexuals";\nRSV, NKJV, NRSV, "sodomites"; NEB, NIV, "perverts"; GNB, "sexual perverts"; In\nI COr 6:9 these occur: KJV, "abusers of themselves with mankind"; ASV,\n"Abusers of themselves with men"; NASB, RSV, "homosexuals"; NKJV, "sodomites";\n NEB, "homosexual persversion." The RSV and NEB derive their translation from\ntwo Greek words, malakoi and arsenokoitai which GBN has as "homosexual\nperverts." NRSV has the two words as "male prostitutes" in the text, and\n"sodomites" in the footnote. The active idea predominates among the\ncommentators as well; it is the primary assumption.\n7. Boswell, Christianity 344. Yet this was no a word "available to Paul for a\nmale prostitute," for it does not occur at all in any literature prior to Paul\n(as a serach in the Thesaurus Linguae Graecae using IBYCUC confirms). If Paul\ncoined the term, it would have no prior history, and all such discussion about\nits lack of usage in contemporary non-Christian and Christian literature is\nmeaningless.\n8. Again this would be expected if Paul coined the word.\n9. The key phrase here apparently is "discussoin," for Boswell admits later\n(350 n.42) that it occurs in quotes of Paul but there is no discussion in the\ncontext. Hence the implication is that we cannot tell what these writer\n(Polycarp "To the Philippian 5:3"; Theophilus "Ad Autolycum 1.2, 2.14";Nilus\n"Epistularum libri quattuor 2.282"; Cyril of Alexandria "Homiliae diversae\n14"; "Sybilline Oravle 2.13") meant. Yet Polycarp, who was a disiple of Hohn\nthe Apostle and died about A.D. 155, argues in the context that young men\nshould be pure. He uses only the three terms pornoi, malakoi, and arsenokoitai\nfrom Paul\'s list. This at least makes Boswell\'s use of "all" subjective. \nApparently Clement of Alexandria "Paedogogus 3.11"; Sromata 3.18"; also belong\nhere.\n\n10.. Yet Eusebius uses it in "Demonstraionis evangelicae 1."\n11. Either Boswell is misrepresenting the facts about Chrysostom\'s use of\narsenokoitai and its form (about 20) in the vice lists of I Cor 6 or I Tim 1,\nor he is begging the question by denying that the word can mean homosexual when\nChrysostom uses it. Yet the meaning of arsenokoitai is the goal of his and our\nstudy, whether in the lists or other discussions. Boswell later admits (351)\nthat Chrysostom uses the almost identicl form arsenokoitos in his commentary on\nI Cor. Although Boswell suggests that the passage is strange, it may be that\nPaul is seeking to make a refinement in arsenokoitai. \n12. Apparently Jerome is a significant omission here, since he renders\narsenokoitai as "masculorum concubitores," corresponding "almost exactly to the\nGreek" (348 n.36).\n\nfootnotes:\n_______________________\n 5. D.S. Bailey, Homosexuality and the Western Christian Tradition. (London:\n1975) 38.\n 6. J. Boswell, Christianity, Social Tolerance and Homosexuality (Chicago:\n1980).\n Several tranlation of I Tim 1:10 are: KJV, "them that defile themselves\nwith mankind"; ASV, "Abusers of themselves with men"; NASB, "homosexuals";\nRSV, NKJV, NRSV, "sodomites"; NEB, NIV, "perverts"; GNB, "sexual perverts"; In\nI COr 6:9 these occur: KJV, "abusers of themselves with mankind"; ASV,\n"Abusers of themselves with men"; NASB, RSV, "homosexuals"; NKJV, "sodomites";\n NEB, "homosexual persversion." The RSV and NEB derive their translation from\ntwo Greek words, malakoi and arsenokoitai which GBN has as "homosexual\nperverts." NRSV has the two words as "male prostitutes" in the text, and\n"sodomites" in the footnote. The active idea predominates among the\ncommentators as well; it is the primary assumption.\n 7. Boswell, Christianity 344. Yet this was no a word "available to Paul for\na male prostitute," for it does not occur at all in any literature prior to\nPaul (as a serach in the Thesaurus Linguae Graecae using IBYCUC confirms). If\nPaul coined the term, it would have no prior history, and all such discussion\nabout its lack of usage in contemporary non-Christian and Christian literature\nis meaningless.\n 8. Again this would be expected if Paul coined the word.\n 9. The key phrase here apparently is "discussoin," for Boswell admits later\n(350 n.42) that it occurs in quotes of Paul but there is no discussion in the\ncontext. Hence the implication is that we cannot tell what these writer\n(Polycarp "To the Philippian 5:3"; Theophilus "Ad Autolycum 1.2, 2.14";Nilus\n"Epistularum libri quattuor 2.282"; Cyril of Alexandria "Homiliae diversae\n14"; "Sybilline Oravle 2.13") meant. Yet Polycarp, who was a disiple of Hohn\nthe Apostle and died about A.D. 155, argues in the context that young men\nshould be pure. He uses only the three terms pornoi, malakoi, and arsenokoitai\nfrom Paul\'s list. This at least makes Boswell\'s use of "all" subjective. \nApparently Clement of Alexandria "Paedogogus 3.11"; Sromata 3.18"; also belong\nhere.\n\n 10. Yet Eusebius uses it in "Demonstraionis evangelicae 1."\n 11. Either Boswell is misrepresenting the facts about Chrysostom\'s use of\narsenokoitai and its form (about 20) in the vice lists of I Cor 6 or I Tim 1,\nor he is begging the question by denying that the word can mean homosexual when\nChrysostom uses it. Yet the meaning of arsenokoitai is the goal of his and our\nstudy, whether in the lists or other discussions. Boswell later admits (351)\nthat Chrysostom uses the almost identicl form arsenokoitos in his commentary on\nI Cor. Although Boswell suggests that the passage is strange, it may be that\nPaul is seeking to make a refinement in arsenokoitai. \n 12. Apparently Jerome is a significant omission here, since he renders\narsenokoitai as "masculorum concubitores," corresponding "almost exactly to the\nGreek" (348 n.36).\nNext:\nR. Scroggs\n',
'From: sdb@ssr.com (Scott Ballantyne)\nSubject: Re: Burzynski\'s "Antineoplastons"\nIn-Reply-To: \'s message of 21 Apr 93 16:54:32 EST\nLines: 28\nOrganization: ScotSoft Research\n\t<93111.145432ICGLN@ASUACAD.BITNET>\n\nIn article <93111.145432ICGLN@ASUACAD.BITNET> <ICGLN@ASUACAD.BITNET> writes:\n\n A good source of information on Burzynski\'s method is in *The Cancer Industry*\n by pulitzer-prize nominee Ralph Moss.\n\nInteresting. What book got Moss the pulitzer nomination? None of the\nflyers for his books mention this, and none of the Cancer Chronicle\nNewsletters that I have mention this either.\n\n Also, a non-profit organization called "People Against Cancer,"\n which was formed for the purpose of allowing cancer patients to\n access information regarding cancer therapies not endorsed by the\n cancer industry, but which have shown highly promising results (all\n of which are non-toxic).\n\nMoss is People Against Cancer\'s Director of Communications. People\nAgainst Cancer seems to offer pretty questionable information, not\nexactly the place a cancer patient should be advised to turn to. Most\n(maybe all) of the infomation in their latest catalogue concern\ntreatments that have been shown to be ineffective against cancer, and\nmany of the treatments are quite dangerous as well.\n\nsdb\n---\nsdb@ssr.com\n\n\n\n',
"From: duncans@phoenix.princeton.edu (Duncan Eric Smith)\nSubject: Verse divisions\nOrganization: Princeton University\nLines: 5\n\nI'm wondering if anyone knows the answer to a rather trivial question which\nI've been thinking about: What was the process used to divide the Bible into\nverses. I believe Jerome divided the New Testament, but I've never seen any\ndiscussion of *how* he did this. It seems rather arbitrary, as opposed to, for\nexample, making each sentence a verse.\n",
'From: dks@world.std.com (David K Shute)\nSubject: Re: Rumours about 3DO ???\nOrganization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA\nLines: 42\n\njohnm@spudge.lonestar.org (John Munsch) writes:\n\n>In article <loT1rAPNBh107h@viamar.UUCP> rutgers!viamar!kmembry writes:\n>>Read Issue #2 of Wired Magazine. It has a long article on the "hype" of\n>>3DO. I\'ve noticed that every article talks with the designers and how\n>>"great" it is, but never show any pictures of the output (or at least\n>>pictures that one can understand)\n\n>Gamepro magazine published pictures a few months ago and Computer Chronicles\n>(a program that is syndicated to public tv stations around the nation) spent\n>several minutes on it when it was shown at CES. It was very impressive what\n>it can do in real time.\n\n>John Munsch\n\nThe April 1993 edition of MIX Magazine carries a story on 3DO which\nincludes pictures of the unit, a schematic of what\'s inside and some\nindication from the people at 3DO as to where they intend to go and in\nwhat stages. (MIX is a trade rag aimed at the professional sound\nengineering community.)\n\nThe schematic shows a central DMA Engine connecting and mediating between\ntwo Graphics Animation processors (32 bit bus), a 32-bit RISC processor\nwith math co-processor, Video Decomp module, a control port, an expansion\nport (where 3DO hangs its double-fast CD player), 1Mb DRAM, an optional\nvideo port (for editing video) and on the outbound side 1MB VRAM to Video\nProcessor to TV chain parallel with a DSP to sound chain. \n\nThey promise Red Book CD-quality audio, full 30 fps video and a future\nconnection path to your PC via a PC expansion card.\n\nI am not informed enough to have an opinion about the various means and\nmethods discussed here. The article, written by Philip De Lancie, does\ncover the other machines mentioned in this thread. I come from the PC\nTCP/IP world and see a tremendous potential for bringing connectedness to\nthe educated consumer; 3DO seems to have the right business partners to\nmake this happen. \n\nHope this helps.\n\nDavid Shute\nEMAIL: dks@world.std.com\n',
"From: cs173sbw@sdcc5.ucsd.edu (cs173sbw)\nSubject: Re: REAL-3D\nOrganization: University of California, San Diego\nLines: 11\nNntp-Posting-Host: sdcc5.ucsd.edu\n\nI heard a friend who just return from NAB from Las Vegas confirm\nthat RealSoft will be releasing a Windows version of REAL-3D 2.0\nthis summer. He was told that the rendering speed on the DX50 isn't\nas fast as A4000. However, he was also told that they are switching\nfrom Microsoft C++ to Watcom to gain more speed. For people who is\nlooking for a powerful 3D animation software for PC. The wait\nshouldn't be too long. Real 3D 2.0 is absolutely the most powerful and\nflexible 3D package out there that sells for less than $1000.\n\np.s. I heard a Indigo version is also under development.\n\n",
'From: lee@hobbes.cs.umass.edu (Peter Lee)\nSubject: Re: QuickTime performance (was Re: Rumours about 3DO ???)\n\t<1993Apr16.212441.34125@rchland.ibm.com>\n\t<1993Apr26.170915.15833@waikato.ac.nz>\nReply-To: lee@cs.umass.edu\nOrganization: Software Development Lab, UMass, Amherst\nLines: 108\nIn-reply-to: ldo@waikato.ac.nz\'s message of 26 Apr 93 05:09:15 GMT\n\nIn article <1993Apr26.170915.15833@waikato.ac.nz> ldo@waikato.ac.nz (Lawrence D\'Oliveiro, Waikato University) writes:\n\n Path: dime!ymir.cs.umass.edu!nic.umass.edu!noc.near.net!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!decwrl!waikato.ac.nz!ldo\n From: ldo@waikato.ac.nz (Lawrence D\'Oliveiro, Waikato University)\n Newsgroups: comp.multimedia,comp.graphics\n Date: 26 Apr 93 05:09:15 GMT\n References: <1993Mar31.074502.3590@aragorn.unibe.ch> <1993Apr16.212441.34125@rchland.ibm.com>\n Organization: University of Waikato, Hamilton, New Zealand\n Lines: 67\n Xref: dime comp.multimedia:6358 comp.graphics:32606\n\n OK, with all the discussion about observed playback speeds with QuickTime,\n the effects of scaling and so on, I thought I\'d do some more tests.\n\n First of all, I felt that my original speed test was perhaps less than\n realistic. The movie I had been using only had 18 frames in it (it was a\n version of the very first movie I created with the Compact Video compressor).\n I decided something a little longer would give closer to real-world results\n (for better or for worse).\n\n I pulled out a copy of "2001: A Space Odyssey" that I had recorded off TV\n a while back. About fifteen minutes into the movie, there\'s a sequence where\n the Earth shuttle is approaching the space station. Specifically, I digitized\n a portion of about 30 seconds\' duration, zooming in on the rotating space\n station. I figured this would give a reasonable amount of movement between\n frames. To increase the differences between frames, I digitized it at only\n 5 frames per second, to give a total of 171 frames.\n\n I captured the raw footage at a resolution of 384*288 pixels with the Spigot\n card in my Centris 650 (quarter-size resolution from a PAL source). I then\n imported it into Premiere and put it through the Compact Video compressor,\n keeping the 5 fps frame rate. I created two versions of the movie: one scaled\n to 320*240 resolution, the other at 160*120 resolution. I used the default\n "2.00" quality setting in Premiere 2.0.1, and specified a key frame every ten\n frames.\n\n I then ran the 320*240 movie through the same "Raw Speed Test" program I used\n for the results I\'d been reporting earlier.\n\n Result: a playback rate of over 45 frames per second.\n\n That\'s right, I was getting a much higher result than with that first short\n test movie. Just for fun, I copied the 320*240 movie to my external hard\n disk (a Quantum LP105S), and ran it from there. This time the playback rate\n was only about 35 frames per second. Obviously the 230MB internal hard disk\n (also a Quantum) is a significant contributor to the speed of playback.\n\n I modified my speed test program to allow the specification of optional\n scaling factors, and tried playing back the 160*120 movie scaled to 320*240\n size. This time the playback speed was over 60 fps. Clearly, the poster who\n observed poor performance on scaled playback was seeing QuickTime 1.0 in\n action, not 1.5. I\'d try my tests with QuickTime 1.0, but I don\'t think it\'s\n entirely compatible with my Centris and System 7.1...\n\n Unscaled, the playback rate for the 160*120 movie was over 100 fps.\n\n The other thing I tried was saving versions of the 320*240 movie with\n "preferred" playback rates greater than 1.0, and seeing how well they played\n from within MoviePlayer (ie with QuickTime\'s normal synchronized playback).\n A preferred rate of 9.0 (=> 45 fps) didn\'t work too well: the playback was\n very jerky. Compare this with the raw speed test, which achieved 45 fps with\n ease. I can\'t believe that QuickTime\'s synchronization code would add this\n much overhead: I think the slowdown was coming from the Mac system\'s task\n switching.\n\n A preferred rate of 7.0 (=> 35 fps) seemed to work fine: I couldn\'t see\n any evidence of stutter. At 8.0 (=> 40 fps) I *think* I could see slight\n stutter, but with four key frames every second, it was hard to tell.\n\n I guess I could try recreating the movies with a longer interval between the\n key frames, to make the stutter more noticeable. Of course, this will also\n improve the compression slightly, which should speed up the playback performance\n even more...\n\n Lawrence D\'Oliveiro fone: +64-7-856-2889\n Computer Services Dept fax: +64-7-838-4066\n University of Waikato electric mail: ldo@waikato.ac.nz\n Hamilton, New Zealand 37^ 47\' 26" S, 175^ 19\' 7" E, GMT+12:00\n\n\nI\'m afraid I missed the start of this thread, but there are three factors that\ncan significantly affect QuickTime\'s playback speed that you may want to take\ninto account:\n\n(1) playback bit depth (things are fastest when you play a\nmovie back at the bit depth it was compressed for, this is usually 8 or 16\nbit, but other depths are (of course) possible).\n\n(2) type of scaling (QT is optimized for "double size" scaling, other scaling\nfactors hit peformance much harder).\n\n(3) playback window position (MoviePlayer limits your window placement choices\nto advantagous pixel boundaries by default, I\'m not sure about Premiere).\n\nAny combination of those can radically alter playback performance. Image size\nis, of course, another biggie. Giving the movie player lots of RAM can also\nmake a real difference.\n\nForgive me if these were mentioned earlier in the thread...\n\n-Peter Lee\n\n \n--\n/-------------------- Peter E. Lee, Software Conductor ----------------------\\\n| Specular International, Inc. |\n| lee@cs.umass.edu or (413) 256-1329 (H) or (413) 549-7600 (W) |\n\\-------- Beauty is 24 bits deep, plus eight bits of alpha channel ----------/\n',
'From: cmtan@iss.nus.sg (Tan Chade Meng - dan)\nSubject: Christianity & Logic (was: Xtian Morality is)\nOrganization: Institute Of Systems Science, NUS\nX-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4\nLines: 59\n\n\nIn article <4949@eastman.UUCP> dps@nasa.kodak.com writes:\n>Simple logic arguments are folly. If you read the Bible you will see\n>that Jesus made fools of those who tried to trick him with "logic".\n \n> If you rely simply on your reason then you will never\n>know more than you do now. ^^^^^^ \n\nI once heard an arguement from a xtian friend similar to this.\n"Christianity is a Higher Logic. Athiest like u will not be able\nto understand it. Your atheist logic is very low. Only thru faith can \nwe understand the Higher Logic in God".\n\nSo I asked him, "So what is this Higher Logic?"\n\nHis answer, "I don\'t know."\n\nThis, & the posting above highlights one of the worst things about\nxtainity. It is abundantly clear to both atheists & xtains that\ntheir believe is both illogical & irrational. Their tactics, therefore:\nto disregard logic & rationality altogether. Silly excuses such as\nthe ones above and those such as, "How can u trust science, science\nwas invented by man!", only goes to further show the weakness of\ntheir religion.\n\nIn my country where xtainity was and still is rapidly growing, xtains\nnever try to convert people by appealing to their brains or senses.\nThey know it would be a fruitless act, given the irrational nature\nof their faith.\nThey would wait until a person is in distress, then they would comfort\nhim/her and addict them to their emotional opium.\n\nNever in my life had I met a person who converted to xtainity coz it\'s\n"reasonable". Rationality has no place in xtainity (see xtian arguement\nagainst "reason" above).\n\n--\n\nThe UnEnlightened One\n------------------+--------------------------------------------------------\n | \nTan Chade Meng | The wise man tells his wife that he understands her.\nSingapore | \ncmtan@iss.nus.sg | The fool tries to prove it. \n | \n------------------+--------------------------------------------------------\n\n\n--\n\nThe UnEnlightened One\n------------------+--------------------------------------------------------\n | \nTan Chade Meng | The wise man tells his wife that he understands her.\nSingapore | \ncmtan@iss.nus.sg | The fool tries to prove it. \n | \n------------------+--------------------------------------------------------\n\n',
'From: ip001b@uhura.cc.rochester.edu (Ivan Pulleyn)\nSubject: PC Question - 256 modes?\nNntp-Posting-Host: uhura.cc.rochester.edu\nOrganization: University of Rochester (Rochester, NY)\nLines: 17\n\n\nHi,\n I need to know if there is a 256 color graphics mode that allows multiple\npages. I want something like mode 0x10 (640x350x16 2 pages). I have been\nexperimenting with graphics by calling the BIOS with borland turbo c. I\nfeel like I am flying blind in this area, and could use all the help that\nyou can give.\n\n Thanks,\n\tIvan......\n\n\n-- \n\t+----------------------------------------+\n\t| Ivan Pulleyn - University of Rochester |\n\t| E-mail - ip001b@uhura.cc.rochester.edu |\n\t+----------------------------------------+\n',
'From: paj@uk.co.gec-mrc (Paul Johnson)\nSubject: Re: cats and pregnancy\nReply-To: paj@uk.co.gec-mrc (Paul Johnson)\nOrganization: GEC-Marconi Research Centre, Great Baddow, UK\nLines: 25\n\n\n>Hello,\n>I heard that a certain disease (toxoplasmosys?) is transmitted by cats which\n>can harm the unborn fetus. Does anybody know about it? Is it a problem to \n>have a cat in the same apartment?\n\n\nSee the rec.pets.cats FAQ or any doctor or vet for more information.\n\nI am not any of the above, but we do have a couple of cats.\n\nIt is transmitted through the fecal matter, so a pregnant woman should\navoid cleaning the cat tray and you should both wash hands before\npreparing or eating meals. The latter is sound advice at any time of\ncourse.\n\nApart from that, its no great problem. You certainly do not need to\nget rid of your cats.\n\nPaul.\n-- \nPaul Johnson (paj@gec-mrc.co.uk).\t | Tel: +44 245 73331 ext 3245\n--------------------------------------------+----------------------------------\nThese ideas and others like them can be had | GEC-Marconi Research is not\nfor $0.02 each from any reputable idealist. | responsible for my opinions\n',
'From: banschbach@vms.ocom.okstate.edu\nSubject: Re: Candida(yeast) Bloom, Fact or Fiction\nLines: 68\nNntp-Posting-Host: vms.ocom.okstate.edu\nOrganization: OSU College of Osteopathic Medicine\n\nIn article <1rjifg$bgm@hsdndev.harvard.edu>, rind@enterprise.bih.harvard.edu (David Rind) writes:\n> In article <1993Apr26.174538.1@vms.ocom.okstate.edu>\n> banschbach@vms.ocom.okstate.edu writes:\n>>oxygen(just like it does in the vagina). As much stuff as there is in the \n>>lay press about L. acidophilus and vaginal yeast infections, I\'m really \n>>amazed that someone has not done a clinical trial yet to check it out.\n> \n> I\'ve mentioned this study a couple of times now: Ingestion of yogurt\n> containing Lactobacillus acidophilus as prophylaxis for candidal\n> vaginitis, Annals of Internal Medicine, 3/1/92 116(5):353-7. Do you\n> have a problem with the study because they used yogurt rather than\n> capsules of lactobacillus (even though it had positive results)?\n> \n> The study was a crossover trial of daily ingestion of 8 ounces of\n> yogurt. There was a marked decrease in infections while women were\n> ingesting the yogurt. Problems with the study included very small\n> numbers (33 patients enrolled) and many protocol violations (only\n> 21 patients were analyzed). Still, the difference in rates of infection\n> between the two groups was so large that the study remains fairly\n> believable.\n> -- \n> David Rind\n\nDavid, this study looks like a good one. Gordon Rubenfeld did a Medline \nsearch and also sent me the same reference through e-mail. Since \ncommercial yogurt does not always have a good Lactobacillus a. or \nbulgaricus culture, a negative finding would not have been too informative.\nThis is often the reason why Lactobacillus acidophilus tablets are \nrecommended rather than yogurt.\n\nI guess the next question is why would this introduction of "good" bacteria \nback into the gut decrease the incidence of vaginal candida blooms if the \nanus was not serving as a candida reservoir(a fact that Gordon R. vehementy\ndenys)? I see two possible theories. One, the L. acidophilus, which is a \nfacultatively anaerobic bacterium, could make it through the gut and \ncolonize the rectal area to overgrow the candida. This would not explain \nthe reoccurance of candida blooms in the vagina after the yogurt ingestion \nwas stopped though. The other is that the additional bacteria in the \nintestinal tract remove most of the glucose from the feces and candida \nlooses it\'s major food source.\n\nGetting Lactobacillus acidophilus to colonize the vaginal tract(where it is \nnormally found) would have a much better effect on the recurrance of vaginal \nyeast blooms though. An acetic acid, Lactobacillus acidophilus douche has \nbeen used to get this effect but I\'ve not seen any such treatment reported in \nthe medical literature. This would be an example of physicians conducting \ntheir own clinical trials to try to come up with treatments that help their \npatients. When this is done in private practice, the results are rarely, if \never published. It was the hallmark of medicine until the modern age \nemerged with clinical trials. It really raises a big question. Does the \nmedical profession cast out the adventerous few who try new treatments to \nhelp patients or does it look the other way.\n\nThis particular issue is really a very simple one since no real dangerous \ntherapy is involved(even the anti-fungals are not all that dangerous). But \nthere are some areas(like EDTA chelation therapy), where the fire is pretty \nhot and somebody could get burned. It\'s really tough. Do I follow only \nwell established protocols and then give up if they don\'t work that well or \ndo it try something that looks like it will work but hasn\'t been proven to \nwork yet?\n\nMy stand is to consider other treatment possibilities, especially if they \ninvolve little or no risk to the patient. Getting good bacteria back into \nthe gut after antibiotic treatment is one treatment possibility. The other \nis getting L. acidophilus into the vaginal tract of a woman who is having a \nproblem with recurring yeast infections.\n\nMarty B.\n',
'From: nodrog@hardy.u.washington.edu (Gordon Rubenfeld)\nSubject: Re: Candida(yeast) Bloom, Fact or Fiction\nArticle-I.D.: shelley.1rhfrkINN816\nOrganization: University of Washington\nLines: 92\nNNTP-Posting-Host: hardy.u.washington.edu\n\nbanschbach@vms.ocom.okstate.edu writes:\n\n>to candida blooms following the use of broad-spectrum antibiotics? Gorden \n>Rubenfeld, through e-mail, has assured me that most physicians recognize \n>the chance of candida blooms occuring after broad-spectrum antibiotic use \n>and they therefore reinnoculate their patients with *good* bacteria to \n>restore competetion for candida in the body. I do not believe that this is \n>yet a standard part of medical practice. \n\n Nor is it mine. What I tried to explain to Marty was that it is clearly\nunderstood that antibiotic exposure is a risk factor for fungal infections\n- which is not the same as saying bacteria prevent fungal infections. \nMarty made this sound like a secret known only to veternarians and\nbiochemists. Anyone who has treated a urinary tract infection knowns\nthis. At some centers pre-op liver transplant patients receive bowel\ndecontamination directed at retaining "good" anaerobic flora in an attempt\nto prevent fungal colonization in this soon-to-be high risk group. I also\nuse lactobacillus to treat enteral nutrition associated diarrhea (that may\nbe in part due to alterations in gut flora). However, it is NOT part of\nmy routine practice to "reinnoculate" patients with "good" bacteria after\nantibiotics. I have seen no data on this practice preventing or treating\nfungal infections in at risk patients. Whether or not it is a "logical\nextension" from the available observations I\'ll leave to those of you who\nbase strong opinions and argue over such speculations in the absence of\nclinical trials. \n One place such therapy has been described is in treating particularly\nrecalcitrant cases of C. difficile colitis (NOT a fungal infection). There\nare case reports of using stool (ie someone elses) enemas to repopulate\nthe patients flora. Don\'t try this at home. \n\n>not give give her advise to use the OTC anti-fungal creams. Since candida \n>colonizes primarily in the ano-rectal area, GI symptoms should be more common \n>than vaginal problems after broad-spectrum antibiotic use.\n\n Except that it isn\'t. At least symptomatically apparent disease.\n\n>Medicine has not, and probalby never will be, practiced this way. There \n>has always been the use of conventional wisdom. A very good example is \n>kidney stones. Conventional wisdom(because clinical trails have not been \n>done to come up with an effective prevention), was that restricitng the \n>intake of calcium and oxalates was the best way to prevent kidney stones \n>from forming. Clinical trials focused on drugs or ultrasonic blasts to \n>breakdown the stone once it formed. Through the recent New England J of \n>Medicine article, we now know that conventional wisdom was wrong, \n>increasing calcium intake is better at preventing stone formation than is \n>restricting calcium intake.\n\n Seems like this is an excellent argument for ignoring anecdotal\nconventional wisdom (a euphemism for no data) and doing a good clinical\ntrial, like: \n\nAU Dismukes-W-E. Wade-J-S. Lee-J-Y. Dockery-B-K. Hain-J-D.\nTI A randomized, double-blind trial of nystatin therapy for the\n candidiasis hypersensitivity syndrome [see comments]\nSO N-Engl-J-Med. 1990 Dec 20. 323(25). P 1717-23.\n psychological tests. RESULTS. The three active-treatment regimens\n and the all-placebo regimen\n significantly reduced both vaginal and systemic symptoms (P less than\n 0.001), but nystatin did not reduce the systemic symptoms\n significantly more than placebo. [ . . . ]\n CONCLUSIONS. In women with presumed candidiasis\n hypersensitivity syndrome, nystatin does not reduce systemic or\n psychological symptoms significantly more than placebo. Consequently,\n the empirical recommendation of long-term nystatin therapy for such\n women appears to be unwarranted.\n\n Does this trial address every issue raised here, no. Jon Noring was not\nsurprised at this negative trial since they didn\'t use *Sporanox* (despite\nCrook\'s recommendation for Nystatin). Maybe they didn\'t avoid those\ncarbohydrates . . . \n\n>The conventional wisdom in animal husbandry has been that animals need to \n>be reinnoculated with *good* bacteria after coming off antibiotic therapy.\n>If it makes sense for livestock, why doesn\'t it make sense for humans \n>David? We are not talking about a dangerous treatment(unless you consider \n>yogurt dangerous). If this were a standard part of medical practice, as \n>Gordon R. says it is, then the incidence of GI distress and vaginal yeast \n>infections should decline.\n\n Marty, you\'ve also changed the terrain of the discussion from empiric\nitraconazole for undocumented chronic fungal sinusitis with systemic\nhypersensitivity symptoms (Noring syndrome) to the yoghurt and vitamin\ntherapy of undocumented candida enteritis (Elaine Palmer syndrome) with\nsystemic symptoms. There is significant difference between the cost and\nrisk of these two empiric therapeutic trials. Are we talking about "real"\ncandida infections, the whole "yeast connection" hypothesis, the efficacy\nof routine bacterial repopulation in humans, or the ability of anecdotally\neffective therapies (challenged by a negative randomized trial) to confirm\nan etiologic hypothesis (post hoc ergo propter hoc). We can\'t seem to\nfocus in on a disease, a therapy, or a hypothesis under discussion. \n \n I\'m lost!\n',
"From: zyeh@caspian.usc.edu (zhenghao yeh)\nSubject: Re: RGB/HLS/HSV conversion routines wanted\nOrganization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA\nLines: 12\nDistribution: world\nNNTP-Posting-Host: caspian.usc.edu\n\n\nIn article <9304280923.AA26702@sun4nl.nluug.nl>, bultman@dgw.rws.nl (G.W.Bultman) writes:\n|> Hi,\n|> \n|> I'm looking for RGB (cube) --> HLS (double hexcone) --> HSV (cylinder) \n|> conversion routines. I have RGB <--> HSV, but miss the HLS <--> RGB/HSV.\n|> \n\tHave you checked Foley's book? The solutions are in chapter 13.\n\n\tYeh\n\tUSC\n\n",
'From: trevor@netcom.com (Sandy Santra)\nSubject: Re: LCD VGA display\nOrganization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)\nX-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]\nLines: 28\n\nMike Mattone (mike@nx03.mik.uky.edu) wrote:\n: Has anyone else experienced anything like this? If this just means that I\n: need to replace the screen then I guess I\'ll have to but I thought that the\n: "death" of my LCD screen would be a little less dramatic when it eventually\n: happened. I didn\'t want to take it in to be repaired before I asked on the\n: net about this because I already know what they\'ll say: "Yep, you gotta have\n: this replaced and it\'s gonna cost you $???."\n\n: I\'ve only had the computer for about 21 months.\n\n"Only"?!? That\'s a long time! (echoing above posting) The way the market\nis going nowadays, your machine\'s obsolete two weeks before you buy it. \nSounds like you\'ll have to sink *some* money into it for repair, but\nthat\'s sometimes necessary for equipment.\n\n: Is that a reasonable life\n: cycle for a LCD display?\n\nI think 21 months with nothing wrong until now is quite reasonable. If\nyou had bought a Compaq or Toshiba, you might have reasonably expected the\nmachine to last longer before something went wrong; but that\'s a moot\npoint, perhaps.\n\n-----------------------------------------------------------------------\nsandy santra _\\/_ trevor@netcom.com\nberkeley, california /\\ trevor@well.sf.ca.us\n-----------------------------------------------------------------------\n\n',
'From: mmiller1@ATTMAIL.COM (Mike Miller)\nSubject: Re: Consecration and Anniversary\nReply-To: Free Catholic Mailing List <CATHOLIC@AMERICAN.EDU>\nLines: 6\n\nNot to change the subject, but how was Fr. Gobbi allowed at Notre Dame? Notre\nDame is an anti Catholic University. Was this allowed to show that the\ncrackpots at Notre Dame believe in freedom of speech? I am glad that they did\nallow him to speak.\n\nMike\n',
'From: bobbe@vice.ICO.TEK.COM (Robert Beauchaine)\nSubject: Re: Amusing atheists and agnostics\nOrganization: Tektronix Inc., Beaverton, Or.\nLines: 18\n\nIn article <madhausC5rFqo.9qL@netcom.com> madhaus@netcom.com (Maddi Hausmann) writes:\n>\n>"Clam" Bake Timmons = Bill "Shit Stirrer Connor"\n>\n\n Sorry, gotta disagree with you on this one Maddi (not the\n resemblence to Bill. The nickname).\n\n I prefer "Half" Bake\'d Timmons\n\n/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\ \n\nBob Beauchaine bobbe@vice.ICO.TEK.COM \n\nThey said that Queens could stay, they blew the Bronx away,\nand sank Manhattan out at sea.\n\n^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^\n',
'From: Lawrence Curcio <lc2b+@andrew.cmu.edu>\nSubject: Re: Can men get yeast infections?\nOrganization: Doctoral student, Public Policy and Management, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA\nLines: 6\nDistribution: na\nNNTP-Posting-Host: po3.andrew.cmu.edu\nIn-Reply-To: <1rimd6$gi6@agate.berkeley.edu>\n\nMy (then) wife used to get recurrent yeast infections. One day, her\ndoctor sent her home with medication for her and a pill for me. I took\nthe pill, upon her insistence, and was very relieved the next day when I\nlooked it up in the PDR. It only RARELY causes testicular atrophy...\n\nAnyway, men apparently do get yeast infections.\n',
"From: cindy@berkp.uadv.uci.edu (Cindy Windham)\nSubject: What's a bone scan?\nNntp-Posting-Host: 128.200.129.76\nOrganization: University Advancement, University of Calif., Irvine\nLines: 7\n\nMy mother has been advised to have a bone scan performed? What is this\nprocedure for, and is it painful? She's been having leg and back pain\nwhich her GP said was sciatica. Her oncologist listened to her symptoms\nand said that it didn't sound like sciatica, and she should get a bone\nscan. \n\n- Cindy W.\n",
"From: danb@shell.portal.com (Dan E Babcock)\nSubject: Re: Christian Morality is\nNntp-Posting-Host: jobe\nOrganization: Portal Communications Company -- 408/973-9111 (voice) 408/973-8091 (data)\nLines: 33\n\nIn article <4963@eastman.UUCP> dps@nasa.kodak.com writes:\n>In article 21627@ousrvr.oulu.fi, kempmp@phoenix.oulu.fi (Petri Pihko) writes:\n>|>Dan Schaertel,,, (dps@nasa.kodak.com) wrote:\n>|>\n>|>\n>|>What does this mean? To learn you must accept that you don't know \n>|>something, right-o. But to learn you must _accept_ something I don't\n>|>know, why? This is not the way I prefer to learn. It is unwise to\n>|>merely swallow everything you read. Suppose I write a book telling\n>|>how the Great Invisible Pink Unicorn (tm) has helped me in my\n>|>daily problems, would you accept this, since you can't know whether\n>|>it is true or not?\n>|>\n>\n>No one asks you to swallow everything, in fact Jesus warns against it. But let\n>me ask you a question. Do you beleive what you learn in history class, or for\n>that matter anything in school. I mean it's just what other people have told\n>you and you don't want to swallow what others say. right ... ?\n\nRight.\n\n>There is no way to get into a sceptical heart. You can not say you have given a \n>sincere effort with the attitude you seem to have. You must TRUST, not just go \n>to church and participate in it's activities. Were you ever willing to die for what\n>you believed? \n\nThe Branch Dividians were. They believed and trusted so much that it became\nimpossible to turn back to reality. What you are advocating is total\nirreversible brainwashing.\n\nDan\n\n\n",
'From: frank@D012S658.uucp (Frank O\'Dwyer)\nSubject: Re: Societal basis for morality\nOrganization: Siemens-Nixdorf AG\nLines: 49\nNNTP-Posting-Host: d012s658.ap.mchp.sni.de\n\nIn article <1993Apr20.004119.6119@cnsvax.uwec.edu> nyeda@cnsvax.uwec.edu (David Nye) writes:\n\nYou asked me to look over here, but I was on my way back anyway :-)\n\n#[reply to cobb@alexia.lis.uiuc.edu (Mike Cobb)]\n# \n#>If morals come from what is societally accepted, why follow that? What\n#>right do we have to expect others to follow our notion of societally\n#>mandated morality? Pardon the extremism, but couldn\'t I murder your\n#>"brother" and say that I was exercising my rights as I saw them, was\n#>doing what felt good, didn\'t want anyone forcing their morality on me,\n#>or I don\'t follow your "morality" ?\n# \n#I believe that morality is subjective. Each person is entitled to his\n#own moral attitudes. Mine are not a priori more correct than someone\n#elses. This does not mean however that I must judge another on the\n#basis of his rather than my moral standards. While he is entitled to\n#believe what his own moral sense tells him, the rest of society is\n#entitled to pass laws spelling out punishments for behavior that is\n#offensive to the majority.\n\nWhy? Your last statement. Why? By which authority? \n\n#Most criminals do not see their behavior as moral. The may realize that\n#it is immoral and not care. They are thus not following their own moral\n#system but being immoral. For someone to lay claim to an alternative\n#moral system, he must be sincere in his belief in it and it must be\n#internally consistent. \n\nWhy? Your last statement. Why are these things necessary? \n\nAnd believe me, a belief in terrorism can be both sincere and frighteningly\nconsistent.\n\n#Some sociopaths lack an innate moral sense and\n#thus may be incapable of behaving morally. While someone like Hitler\n#may have believed that his actions were moral, we may judge him immoral\n#by our standards. Holding that morality is subjective does not mean\n#that we must excuse the murderer.\n\nTrouble is, this would sound just fine coming from someone like Hitler, too.\n(I do *not* mean any comparison or offence, David.) Try substituting \nthe social minority of your choice for \'sociopath\', \'Hitler\', and\n\'murderer\'. No logical difference. Someone like you, vs. someone like\nHitler. Zero sum. \n\n-- \nFrank O\'Dwyer \'I\'m not hatching That\'\nodwyer@sse.ie from "Hens", by Evelyn Conlon\n',
"From: uabdpo.dpo.uab.edu!gila005 (Stephen Holland)\nSubject: Re: Hives\nOrganization: Gastroenterology - Univ. of Alabama\nLines: 26\n\nIn article <1993Apr28.064144.24115@nuscc.nus.sg>, isckbk@nuscc.nus.sg\n(Kiong Beng Kee) wrote:\n> \n> \n> My wife had hives during the first two months\n> of her pregnancy. My son (3 months old), breast-fed,\n> now has the same symptoms. She has been to a skin-specialist,\n> but he has merely prescribed various medicines (one\n> each visit as though by trial and error :-))\n> \n> Anti-histamines worked on both of them, but looks like\n> becoming less effective.\n> \n> Are there other solutions? Thanks.\n> -- \n> Kiong Beng Kee\n> Dept of Information Systems and Computer Science\n> National University of Singapore\n> Lower Kent Ridge Road, SINGAPORE 0511\n\nFood products can get through breast milk and cause allergies in the\nyoung. Since the son is allergic it would be best not to go to\nbottle feedings, but rather eliminate foods from mother's diet. Your\npediatrician should be able to give you a list of foods to avoid.\n\nGood luck, Steve\n",
'From: wang@ssd.intel.com (Wen-Lin Wang)\nSubject: Re: How often do kids fall sick? etc.\nNntp-Posting-Host: ssdintel\nOrganization: Supercomputer Systems Division (SSD), Intel\nLines: 83\n\nIn article <ASHWIN.93May2131021@leo.gatech.edu> ashwin@cc.gatech.edu (Ashwin Ram) writes:\n>Our 20-month son has started falling sick quite often every since he\n>started going to day care. He was at home for the first year and he did\n>not fall sick even once. Now it seems like he has some sort of cold or\n>flu pretty much once a month. Most of the time the cold leads to an ear\n>infection as well, with the result that he ends up being on antibiotics\n>3 weeks out of 4. I know kids in day care fall sick more often, but we\n>...\n\nSounds pretty familiar. I posted similar cries about last September when\nCaroline just entered daycare. She was two, then, and have been with \ncontinuous colds since until last March. As spring approaches, her colds\nslowed down. Meanwhile we grew more and more relaxed about her colds.\nOnly once did the doctor diagnosed an ear infection and only twice she\nhad antibiotics. (The other time was due to sinus infection, and I wished\nthat I did not give her that awful Septra.) \n\n>Are there any studies that can help answer some of these questions?\n\nThere are the \'net studies\' -- that is, if you read this newsgroup often,\nthere will be a round of questions like this every month. There might\nbe formal studies like that, but bear with my not so academic experience.\nOkay?\n>\n>-- How often do kids in their first, second and third years fall sick?\n>How often do they get colds, flus, ear infections? \n\nGee, I bet 50/50 you\'ll hear cases in all these catagories.\n\n> Is there any data on home care vs. day care?\n\nI am pretty sure, an insulated child at home sicks less. But, that child \nstill will face the world one day. \n\n>\n>-- Does being sick "build immunity" (leading to less illness later),\n\nThat\'s what I believe and comfort myself with. Caroline will get more\nand more colds for sure before she learned not to stick her hand in other \nkid\'s mouth nor let other kids do the same. Cold virus mutate easily.\nHowever, I hope that her immune system will be stronger to fight these\ndiseases, so she would be less severely affected. Everytime she has a cold,\nwe make sure she blow her nose frequently and give her Dorcol or Dimetapp \nat night so she can have good rest (thanks to some suggestions from the net).\nThat\'s about all the care she needs from us. I try very hard to keep her\noff antibiotics. Twice her ped. gave me choice to decide whether she would\nhave antibiotics. I waited just long enough (3-4 days) to see that she\nfought the illness off. I do understand that you don\'t have much choice if\nthe child is in pain and/or high fever. \n\n>does it make kids "weaker" (leading to more illness later), or does it\n>not have any long term effect?\n\nIf the child doesn\'t rely on antibiotics to fight off the sickness everytime,\nthen the child should be stronger.\n\n>\n>-- Does taking antibiotics on a regular basis have any negative long\n>term effects?\n> \nI\'ll leave this to expert.\n\n>-- How does one tell if a child is more susceptible to illness than\n>normal, and what does one do about it?\n>\nIf your child just entered daycare, I\'m pretty sure the first 6 months will be\nthe hardest. (Then, you get more used to it. Boy, do I hate to see me typing\nthis sentence. I recall when I read something like this last September, I said \nto myself, \'oh, sure.\' But, I do get used to it, now.) However, I do hear \npeople say that it does get better after a year or two. I am looking forward \nto a healthier next winter. As it gets warmer, I hope you do get some break \nsoon.\n\n>-- Is there any way to build immunity and resistance?\n>\nEat well, sleep well. Try not to use antibiotics if not absolutely necessary.\n\nGood luck.\n\nWen-lin\n\n\n-- \n',
'From: tpehrson@slack.sim.es.com (tim clinkenpeel)\nSubject: [PC] oak77 vga driver available via ftp?\nOrganization: Evans & Sutherland Computer Corporation\nLines: 9\nReply-To: tpehrson@slack.sim.es.com\nNNTP-Posting-Host: slack\n\na user on my bbs "accidentally" deleted his vga driver for his oak77 card and\nhas no backup. i was wondering if someone knew of an ftp site (and path,\nplease!) where such a thing might be obtained. thanks.\n\n-- \n\t there is no religion when a man has good curry\n call the Lizard\'s Den bbs (801) IT\'S-YODA - usenet, nethack, XiX, pc/amiga\n tim clinkenpeel: aberrant analytical skeptical agnostic idealist.\n\t\t -- i exclusively represent myself --\n',
"From: klier@iscsvax.uni.edu\nSubject: Re: allergic reactions against laser printers??\nOrganization: University of Northern Iowa\nLines: 10\n\nIn article <1993Apr29.124806.4599@Informatik.TU-Muenchen.DE>, rdd@uts.ipp-garching.mpg.de (Reinhard Drube) writes:\n> does anyone know about allergic reactions caused by the developer/toner\n> of laser printers? What chemical stuff is involved?\n\nMainly carbon dust with iron in a plastic binder that is melted on to the\npaper. Same stuff as dry paper photocopiers.\n\nAllergies? Haven't heard of any, but anything's possible with allergies ;-)\n\nKay Klier Biology Dept UNI\n",
'From: jcarey@news.weeg.uiowa.edu (John Carey)\nSubject: med school\nOrganization: University of Iowa, Iowa City, IA, USA\nLines: 27\n\nActually I am entering vet school next year, but the question is \nrelevant for med students too.\n\nMemorizing large amounts has never been my strong point academically.\nSince this is a major portion of medical education -- anatomy, \nhistology, pathology, pharmacology, are for the most part mass \nmemorization -- I am a little concerned. As I am sure most \nmed students are.\n\nCan anyone suggest techniques for this type of memorization? I \nhave had reasonable success with nemonics and memory tricks like\nthinking up little stories to associate unrelated things. But I have\nnever applied them to large amounts of "data".\n\nHas anyone had luck with any particular books, memory systems, or\ncheap software? \n\nCan you suggest any helpful organizational techniques? Being an\nolder student who returned to school this year, organization (another\none of my weak points) has been a major help to my success.\n\nPlease no griping about how all you have to do is "learn" the material\nconceptually. I have no problem with that, it is one of my strong \npoints. But you can\'t get around the fact that much of medicine is\nrote memorization. \n\nThanks for your help.\n',
'From: noring@netcom.com (Jon Noring)\nSubject: Re: Candida(yeast) Bloom, Fact or Fiction\nOrganization: Netcom Online Communications Services (408-241-9760 login: guest)\nLines: 109\n\nIn article nodrog@hardy.u.washington.edu (Gordon Rubenfeld) writes:\n\n> Marty, you\'ve also changed the terrain of the discussion from empiric\n>itraconazole for undocumented chronic fungal sinusitis with systemic\n>hypersensitivity symptoms (Noring syndrome) to the yoghurt and vitamin\n>therapy of undocumented candida enteritis (Elaine Palmer syndrome) with\n>systemic symptoms. There is significant difference between the cost and\n>risk of these two empiric therapeutic trials. Are we talking about "real"\n>candida infections, the whole "yeast connection" hypothesis, the efficacy\n>of routine bacterial repopulation in humans, or the ability of anecdotally\n>effective therapies (challenged by a negative randomized trial) to confirm\n>an etiologic hypothesis (post hoc ergo propter hoc). We can\'t seem to\n>focus in on a disease, a therapy, or a hypothesis under discussion. \n> \n> I\'m lost!\n\nPoint 1:\n\nI\'m beginning to see that *part* of the disagreements about the whole\n"yeast issue" is on differing perceptions and on differing meanings\nof words. Medical doctors have a very specific and specialized "jargon",\nnecessary for precise communication within their field (which I\'m fully\ncognizant of since I, too, speak "jargonese" when with my peers). For the\nsituation in sci.med, many times the words or phrases used by doctors can\nhave a different and more specific meaning than the same word used in the\nworld at large, causing significant miscommunication. One example word,\nand very relevant to the yeast discussion, is the exact meaning of "systemic".\nIt is now obvious to me that the meaning of this word is very specific, much\nmore so than its meaning to a non-doctor. There is also the observation of\nthis newsgroup that both doctors and non-doctors come together on essentially\nequal terms, which, when combined with the jargon issue, can further fan\nthe flames. This is probably the first time that practicing doctors get\nreally "beat up" by non-doctors for their views on medicine, which they\notherwise don\'t see much of in their practice except for the occasional\n"difficult" patient.\n\nPoint 2:\n\nI understand the viewpoint among many practicing doctors that they will not\nprescribe any treatments/therapies for their patients unless such treatments\nhave been shown to be effective and the risks understood from well-constructed\nclinical trials (usually double-blind), or that such treatments/therapies are\npart of an approved and funded clinical trial. To these doctors, to do any\ndifferently would, in this belief system, be unethical practice. And it\nfollows that any therapy not on the "accepted" list is therefore a non-\ntherapy - it does not even exist, nor does the underlying hypothesis or\ntheory have any validity, even if it sounds very plausible by extrapolation\nof what is currently known. Anecdotal evidence has no value, either, from\na treatment point-of-view.\n\nAnd by and large, as a scientist myself, I am glad that medical practice/\nscience takes such a rigorous approach to medical treatment. However, as\nalso being a human being (last I checked), and having been one of those people\nthat has been significantly helped by a currently unaccepted treatment, where\n"standard" medicine was not able to help me, has caused me to sit back and\nwonder if holding such an extreme and rigid "scientific" viewpoint is in\nitself unethical from humanitarian considerations. After all, the underlying\nintent of the "scientific" approach to medicine is to protect the health of\nthe patient by providing the best possible care for the patient, so the\npatient should come first when considering treatment.\n\nWhat we need is a slightly modified approach to treatment that satisfies both\nthe "scientific" and the "humanitarian" viewpoints. In an earlier post I\noutlined a crazy idea for doing just that. The gist of it was to give any\nphysician freedom and encouragement by the medical community to prescribe\nalternate, not yet proven therapies (maybe supported by anecdotal evidence)\nfor patients who *all* avenues of accepted therapies have been exhausted\n(and not until then). The patient would be fully informed that such\ntherapies/treatments are not supported by the proper clinical trials and that\nthere are real potential risks with real possibilities of no benefit derived\nfrom them.\n\nThis approach satisfies the need for scientific rigor. It also satisfies\nthe humanitarian needs of the patient. And the reality is that many patients\nwho have reached a dead-end in the treatment of their symptoms using accepted\nmedicine *will* go outside the orthodox medical community: either to the\ndoctors who are brave enough to prescribe such treatments at the risk of losing\ntheir license, or worse, to non-doctors who have not had the proper medical\ntraining. This approach also recognizes this reality and keeps the control\nmore within orthodox medicine, with the benefits that the information gleaned\ncould help focus limited resources towards future clinical trials in the most\nproductive way. Everybody wins in this admittedly rose-colored approach - I\'m\nsure there are real problems with this approach as well - it is presented\nmore as a strawman to stimulate discussion.\n\nHopefully what I write here may give the sci.med doctors a better idea as to\nwhy I am "open" to alternative therapies, as well as why I have real\ndifficulty (read "apparent hostility") with the "coldness" of the 99.9% pure\n"scientific" approach to medicine. I believe the best approach to medical\ntreatment is one where both the "humanitarian" aspects are balanced with and\nby the "scientific" aspects. Anything else is just not good medicine, imho.\nJust my \'NF\' leanings, I guess. :^)\n\nComments?\n\nJon Noring\n\n-- \n\nCharter Member --->>> INFJ Club.\n\nIf you\'re dying to know what INFJ means, be brave, e-mail me, I\'ll send info.\n=============================================================================\n| Jon Noring | noring@netcom.com | |\n| JKN International | IP : 192.100.81.100 | FRED\'S GOURMET CHOCOLATE |\n| 1312 Carlton Place | Phone : (510) 294-8153 | CHIPS - World\'s Best! |\n| Livermore, CA 94550 | V-Mail: (510) 417-4101 | |\n=============================================================================\nWho are you? Read alt.psychology.personality! That\'s where the action is.\n',
"From: bobbe@vice.ICO.TEK.COM (Robert Beauchaine)\nSubject: Re: Requests\nOrganization: Tektronix Inc., Beaverton, Or.\nLines: 17\n\nIn article <healta.157.735271671@saturn.wwc.edu> healta@saturn.wwc.edu (Tammy R Healy) writes:\n>\n>Bob, if you're wanting an excuse to convert to Christianity, you gonna have \n>to look elsewhere.\n>\n\n Damn. And I did so have my hopes up.\n\n\n/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\/\\ \n\nBob Beauchaine bobbe@vice.ICO.TEK.COM \n\nThey said that Queens could stay, they blew the Bronx away,\nand sank Manhattan out at sea.\n\n^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^\n",
"From: larry@ducktales.med.ge.com (Larry Landwehr)\nSubject: Corel Draw or Harvard Draw?\nDistribution: usa\nOrganization: GE Corp R&D Center, Schenectady NY\nLines: 23\nNntp-Posting-Host: ducktales.med.ge.com\n\nMy wife wants to publish a newsletter. She's no artist, so she intends to\nuse comercial clipart and customise it a bit by drawing a circle or a box\naround it etc. \n \nWe have MSPublisher for manipulating text, but it is not suitable for doing\nmuch with graphics, so she needs a more specialised tool. Right now she's\nlooking at Corel Draw and Harvard Draw. There seem to be more books in the\nstores on Corel than on Harvard, so she's inclined to go with Corel on the\nbasis of popularity. Can anyone give us an informed opinion on which \npackage would be more suitable or if there is an even better alternative\navailable? If this is a FAQ, please withhold the flames and just send the\nlocation of the FAQ document. Thanks.\n \nThree PS's:\n \n1) Is it ok to use clip art from Harvard Draw or whatever for commercial\n purposes?\n \n2) We have a 600 dpi Laser Jet 4 printer. What would be a good scanner for\n reading in paper clipart?\n \n3) How about someone starting up a newsgroup on desktop publishing if one\n doesn't exist?\n",
'From: psyrobtw@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (Robert Weiss)\nSubject: Re: Mormon temples\nOrganization: University at Buffalo\nLines: 62\n\nIn article <May.9.05.40.06.1993.27468@athos.rutgers.edu>, \njwindley@cheap.cs.utah.edu (Jay Windley) writes...\n\n[...]\n\n>There are other interpretations to Christian history in this matter.\n>One must recall that most of what we know about the Gnostics was\n>written by their enemies. Eusebius claims that Jesus imparted secret\n>information to Peter, James, and John after His resurrection, and that\n>those apostles transmitted that information to the rest of the Twelve\n>(Eusebius, _Historia Ecclesiastica_ II 1:3-4).\n\nThis is curious. I read in _EH_...\n\n"The Lord imparted the gift of knowledge to James the Just, to John \nand Peter after his resurrection, these delivered it to the rest of \nthe apostles, and they to the seventy, of whom Barnabas was one."\n\t\t\t \n\t\t\t--- Eusebius, _Ecclesiastical History_\n\nIt seems that the Lord imparted the gift of knowledge, not that the\nLord imparted secret information.\n\n[...]\n\n>apostles. Interestingly enough, Eusebius refers to the groups which\n>we today call Gnostics as promulgators of a false gnosis (Eusebius,\n>op. cit., III, 32:7-8). His gripe was not that thay professed *a*\n>gnosis, but that they had the *wrong* one.\n\nI\'m afraid that I cannot find this portrayal in _EH_. \nI don\'t see anywhere in 3:32:7-8 where Eusebius mentions that certain \ngnostics had the wrong gnosis.\n\nThe closest is when Eusebius summarizes Hegesippus\' statements, \n"...whilst if there were any at all, that attempted to pervert \nthe sound doctrine of the saving gospel, they were yet skulking \nin dark retreats..."\n\n>Now one can approach this and other such evidence in many ways. I\n>don\'t intend that everyone interpret Christian history as I do, but I\n>believe that evidence exists (favorably interpreted, of course) of\n>early Christian rites analogous to those practiced by Mormons today.\n\n"Favorably interpreted?" Just in looking at two of the four \nreferences that you gave (I have the _EH_ handy, Irenaeus and the \n_Clemetine Recognitions_ I will have to look for) I see no room for \nsuch \'interpretations.\'\n\nAnd any such \'interpretation\' still falls short of an equivalence to \nthe Temple Ceremonies. \n\nThe links for Jay\'s using _EH_ for support are: "imparting the gift \nof knowledge" = "imparted secret information" = "being given secret \nsigns and tokens to gain entrance to heaven." But there is not\nenough equivalence between the the ideas for us to be able to call \nthis "favorable interpretation." It appears to be closer to \n"fabrication."\n\n=============================\nRobert Weiss\npsyrobtw@ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu\n',
'From: ashwin@gatech.edu (Ashwin Ram)\nSubject: How often do kids fall sick? etc.\nReply-To: ashwin@cc.gatech.edu (Ashwin Ram)\nOrganization: Georgia Institute of Technology, College of Computing\nLines: 35\n\nOur 20-month son has started falling sick quite often every since he\nstarted going to day care. He was at home for the first year and he did\nnot fall sick even once. Now it seems like he has some sort of cold or\nflu pretty much once a month. Most of the time the cold leads to an ear\ninfection as well, with the result that he ends up being on antibiotics\n3 weeks out of 4. I know kids in day care fall sick more often, but we\nare beginning to wonder how often "more often" really is, whether our\nson is more susceptible or has lower immunity than average, what the\nlonger-term effects of constantly being sick and taking antibiotics are,\nand what we can do to build up his resistance. He really enjoys his day\ncare and we think it\'s great too, but we are beginning to wonder whether\nwe should think about getting a nanny.\n\nAre there any studies that can help answer some of these questions?\n\n-- How often do kids in their first, second and third years fall sick?\nHow often do they get colds, flus, ear infections? Is there any data on\nhome care vs. day care?\n\n-- Does being sick "build immunity" (leading to less illness later),\ndoes it make kids "weaker" (leading to more illness later), or does it\nnot have any long term effect?\n\n-- Does taking antibiotics on a regular basis have any negative long\nterm effects?\n\n-- How does one tell if a child is more susceptible to illness than\nnormal, and what does one do about it?\n\n-- Is there any way to build immunity and resistance?\n\nAny data, information or advice relating to this would be much\nappreciated. Thanks a lot.\n\nAshwin.\n',
'From: dan@ingres.com (a Rose arose)\nSubject: Re: The arrogance of Christians\nOrganization: Representing my own views and not that of my company here.\nLines: 122\n\nnews@cbnewsk.att.com writes:\n: Arrogance is arrogance. It is not the result of religion, it is the result\n: of people knowing or firmly believing in an idea and one\'s desire to show\n: others of one\'s rightness. I assume that God decided to be judge for our\n: sake as much as his own, if we allow him who is kind and merciful be the \n: judge, we\'ll probably be better off than if others judged us or we judged \n: ourselves. \n\nI\'m not sure I agree with this 100%. I agree that arrogance is not the result\nof religion and that God is a far better judge than we are. I also agree if\nyou mean to say that arrogance shows up in the form of trying to prove one\'s\nsuperior knowledge, rightness, or holiness over another person\'s beliefs.\n\nI need to be careful to understand what you mean here so that I do not fall\ninto the mistake of misrepresenting your views. If I fall down in this area\nI hope you will forgive me.\n\nArrogance is not the result of believing one is right or of believing that\none\'s God is greater than the god\'s of others or of believing that one\'s\nreligion is better than other religions. These are all naturally self-implied\nbeliefs.\n\nIt is self-contradictory to say that I believe my current beliefs to be wrong.\nWere I to find myself in error, my beliefs would naturally change and follow\nwhat I believe to be right. Therefore, I must always consider my beliefs\ncorrect. That\'s not arrogance. That\'s unavoidable behavior.\n\nIt is nonsense to say that I believe another person\'s god to be greater than\nmy God. Were his or her god greater, wouldn\'t I be obligated to change so\nthat their god would become my God? We are naturally obligated to worship\nthat God which we deem to be the greatest. Why should we feel obligated to\nworship a second best god for the sake of feeling humble?\n\nArrogance is not necessarily thinking onesself to be better looking or more\nintelligent or stronger or having more resources than another person. No\ndoubt many will have to chew on this one awhile. Were passive observation\nof one\'s superior points arrogance, then God would be most arrogant of all.\n\nHumility does not rest in slandering or belittling God\'s work of creation in\nour lives. People often go around trying to be humble saying to one another,\n"I\'m not very smart. I\'m poor. I\'m not good looking. I\'m just a worm in\nthe ground. I\'m such a weak person and although I don\'t want to sin, I\nreally cannot help it." Were this person truely humble, he would take a\ndifferent approach. "God, thank you for making me the way you did. I know\nthat you never do anything second best. Yet with all that you have given me,\nI have been so unthankful. You\'ve given me power to resist the devil. I\nhave not used it but have indulged myself in doing exactly what you have said\nnot to do. I have slandered your creation in my life and have credited myself\nwith humility for doing so. Lord, with all you\'ve given me, I have been\ncompletely unfaithful and I do not deserve your forgiveness. And, yet Your\nlove for me is so boundless that you would give Yourself to die for me to\nsave me. As terribly evil as I am, I deserve to go straight to hell, yet it\npleases you somehow to rescue me from this terrible life I\'ve led. Lord,\nplease forgive me and help me stay on the right track so that I can bring\nglory to Your Name instead of insult. Lord I\'m so sorry for my wrongs. Please\nhelp me to change."\n\n: \n: I think people take exceptional offense to religious arrogance because\n: they don\'t want to be wrong. If I find someone arrogant, I typically\n: don\'t have anything to do with them.\n\nFor me, I\'ve often found it hard to tell the difference. Often times, the\nmost humble christian has come across to me as arrogant while the most\nproud "worm in the ground" false humility type person has been found to be\nmost comfortable company.\n\nWhen I\'m wrong and arrogant about my wrongness, I certainly don\'t feel like\nbeing confronted by my wrongness. Were someone to confront me verbally with\nmy wrongness, I\'d be likely to snap at them and examine them head to toe for\nall their faults and charge them with hypocricy for what they said to me.\nAt the root, my desire would be to make them shut up so that I can go about\nliving my life arrogantly as I wish. However, were someone to confront me\nsilently by their example, earn my respect, and perhaps mention it to me in\nhumility in private, I\'d feel broken down and challenged to seek God for help\nin changing from the error of my ways.\n\nThe hard part is getting to the point to where I can be humble before anyone\nregardless of their humility or pride--regardless of their hypocricy or\nsincerity--regardless of whether onlookers will frown down upon me or not.\nIt isn\'t easy to take this pain in love with thankfulness for the opportunity\nto improve in one\'s ability to serve God. It\'s easier to cast aside any hope\nof reaching true humility and merely hide behind slandering God\'s creation\nin our lives instead.\n\n: But we should examine ourselves [I hope I typed this back in right]\n: and why we react to certain situations with such emotions. For instance,\n: many of us feel "justified" to be insulted by an arrogant person. As if\n: we needed a reason to feel insulted. But after being insulted over and\n: over again by the words of others, you\'d think we\'d either toughen up\n: or decide not to be insulted, or ignore the insult. Just because you\n: can justify feelings of anger or insult or outrage, that doesn\'t make that\n: reaction the appropriate one. It is in this light of self-examination\n: that we can change our emotional reactions.\n: \n\nSometimes it helps when we can understand and feel the difference between\nwhat is a true statement of our character and what is a false and slanderous\nstatement of our character. The devil is the accuser of the bretheren. He\nwould love us to feel hopelessly guilty where we are innocent and feel arrogant\nand self-righteous where we are indeed wrong. The devil\'s aim is to get us\ninto as much misery as he can. Just think of the devil as a cruel and merci-\nless criminal who torments a parent by burning his or her children with\nhot irons. The way the devil gets under the Father\'s skin is by hurting\nthose that the Father loves so much.\n\n\n--\n-----------------------------------------------------------------------\n\t"I deplore the horrible crime of child murder...\n\t We want prevention, not merely punishment.\n\t We must reach the root of the evil...\n\t It is practiced by those whose inmost souls revolt\n\t from the dreadful deed...\n\t No mater what the motive, love of ease,\n\t\tor a desire to save from suffering the unborn innocent,\n\t\tthe woman is awfully guilty who commits the deed...\n\t but oh! thrice guilty is he who drove her\n\t\tto the desperation which impelled her to the crime."\n\n\t\t- Susan B. Anthony,\n\t\t The Revolution July 8, 1869\n',
'From: deguzman@after.math.uiuc.edu (A A DeGuzman)\nSubject: Re: YOU WILL ALL GO TO HELL!!!\nDistribution: na\nReply-To: a-deguzman@uiuc.edu\nOrganization: Calculus&Mathematica at UIUC\nLines: 26\n\ndecay@cbnewsj.cb.att.com (dean.kaflowitz) writes:\n\n>In article <C5LH4p.27K@portal.hq.videocart.com>, dfuller@portal.hq.videocart.com (Dave Fuller) writes:\n>> JSN104@psuvm.psu.edu () writes:\n>> : YOU BLASHEPHEMERS!!! YOU WILL ALL GO TO HELL FOR NOT BELIEVING IN GOD!!!! BE\n>> : PREPARED FOR YOUR ETERNAL DAMNATION!!!\n>> \n>> What do you mean "be prepared" ?? Surrounded by thumpers like yourself\n>> has proven to be hellish enough . . . and I\'m not even dead yet !!\n\n>Well here\'s how I prepared. I got one of those big beach\n>umbrellas, some of those gel-pack ice things, a big Coleman cooler\n>which I\'ve loaded up with Miller Draft (so I like Miller Draft,\n>so sue me), a new pair of New Balance sneakers, a Sony\n>Watchman, and a couple of cartons of BonTon Cheddar Cheese\n>Popcorn.\n\n[stuff deleted]\n\nActually, you get a ton of weapons and ammunition, 70-80 followers, and hole\nup in some kind of compound, and wait for . . . . :-)\n--\nAlan A. DeGuzman Calvin: "I\'m so smart it\'s almost scary. I guess\nCalculus&Mathematica I\'m a child progeny."\nDISCLAIMER: "The University\ncan\'t afford my opinions." Hobbes: "Most children are . . . "\n',
'From: mmm@cup.portal.com (Mark Robert Thorson)\nSubject: Re: INFO: Colonics and Purification?\nOrganization: The Portal System (TM)\nDistribution: world\nLines: 8\n\nColonics were a health fad of the 19th century, which persists to this day.\nExcept for certain medical conditions, there is no reason to do this.\nCertainly no normal person should do this.\n\nFrequent use of enemas can lead to a condition in which a person is unable\nto have normal bowel passage, essentially a person becomes addicted to\nenemas. As I understand it, this is a very unpleasant condition, and it\nwould be best to avoid it.\n',
'From: bil@okcforum.osrhe.edu (Bill Conner)\nSubject: Re: free moral agency\nNntp-Posting-Host: okcforum.osrhe.edu\nOrganization: Okcforum Unix Users Group\nX-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL9]\nLines: 4\n\nSee, I told you there was an atheist mythology, thanks for proving my\npoint.\n\nBill\n',
'From: JEK@cu.nih.gov\nSubject: James and Sirach\nLines: 31\n\nOn Thursday 6 May 1993, Dave Davis writes:\n\n > I\'m leaning... SIRACH... is more directly referenced by JAMES\n > than JOB or RUTH is... in any NT verse I\'ve seen.\n\nIt would help if you mentioned chapter and verse from SIRACH and\nfrom JAMES.\n\nJob 5:13 ("He taketh the wise in their craftiness") seems to be\nquoted in 1 Corinthians 3:19.\n\nJames 5:11 ("You have heard of the patience of Job"), while not a\nquote, implies that James and his listeners are familiar with a\nstory of a man named Job who exhibited exemplary patience. It is\npossible that the story they know is not that found in the Hebrew\nBible, but rather another similar and related story. (One has the\nsame problem with direct quotes.)\n\nAgain, Matthew 1:5 ("Boaz begat Obed of Ruth") tells us that Matthew\nknew a story about a woman named Ruth who married a man called Boaz\nand became the ancestor of David. Since Ruth is not mentioned in\nthe OT outside the Book of Ruth, it seems likely that Matthew was\nfamiliar with the book and respected it, and thought Ruth important\nenough to be one of the few women mentioned in the genealogy.\n\nReferences like this do not prove that the NT writer considered his\nOT source inspired or inerrant or canonical. But neither do direct\nquotes.\n\n Yours,\n James Kiefer\n',
'From: arromdee@jyusenkyou.cs.jhu.edu (Ken Arromdee)\nSubject: Re: Christian Morality is\nOrganization: Johns Hopkins University CS Dept.\nLines: 24\n\nIn article <4949@eastman.UUCP> dps@nasa.kodak.com writes:\n>|> Yet I am still not a believer. Is god not concerned with my\n>|> disposition? Why is it beneath him to provide me with the\n>|> evidence I would require to believe? The evidence that my\n>|> personality, given to me by this god, would find compelling?\n>The fact is God could cause you to believe anything He wants you to. \n>But think about it for a minute. Would you rather have someone love\n>you because you made them love you, or because they wanted to\n>love you.\n\nOh no, not again.\n\nThere is a difference between believing that God exists, and loving him.\n(For instance, Satan certainly believes God exists, but does not love him.)\nWhat unbelievers request in situations like this is that God provide evidence\ncompelling enough to believe he exists, not to compel them to love him.\n--\n"On the first day after Christmas my truelove served to me... Leftover Turkey!\nOn the second day after Christmas my truelove served to me... Turkey Casserole\n that she made from Leftover Turkey.\n[days 3-4 deleted] ... Flaming Turkey Wings! ...\n -- Pizza Hut commercial (and M*tlu/A*gic bait)\n\nKen Arromdee (arromdee@jyusenkyou.cs.jhu.edu)\n',
"From: ddennis@nyx.cs.du.edu (Dave Dennis)\nSubject: Re: Adobe Type Manager - what good is it??\nOrganization: University of Denver, Dept. of Math & Comp. Sci.\nLines: 29\n\nmenchett@dws015.unr.edu (Peter J Menchetti) writes:\n\n>The subject says it all. I bought Adobe Type Manager and find it completely\n>useless. I ftped some atm fonts and couldn't install them. What's the use?\n>Are you supposed to be able to convert ATM fonts to Truetype?\n\n>If there's anyone out there who has this program and actually finds it \n>useful, enlighten me!\n\n>Pete\n\nThere are some tricks to installing ATM to windows... install them first\nto dos, then run the ATM control panel to get them into windows.\n\nThe best reason for ATM is that Adobe IS the standard. Truetype is a\nfailed MS venture to undercut Adobe when Adobe was being nasty about\nkeeping their formats proprietary. Just about any service bureau or print\nshop will smirk and send you on your way if you bring a TrueType document\nto them for high resolution printing or ripping.\n\nAlthough there are lots of pretty TT fonts floating around, they are really\nfor dot matrix or your own lazer printer.\nHowever, you can convert your TT fonts with Fontmonger or some similar program\nto ATM fonts for high end stuff.\n\nIf you are using dot matrix for all your printing, you may have wasted\nyour money!\n\nDave\n",
'From: cstxqbe@dcs.warwick.ac.uk (Kate Kingman)\nSubject: Re: LCD VGA display\nNntp-Posting-Host: shuffle\nOrganization: Department of Computer Science, Warwick University, England\nLines: 24\n\nIn article <C6BAB1.LLt@vcd.hp.com> edmoore@vcd.hp.com (Ed Moore) writes:\n>: I\'ve only had the computer for about 21 months. Is that a reasonable life\n>: cycle for a LCD display?\n>\n>My Toshiba T1100+ LCD (CGA, 1986) died in 11 months. Replaced under the 12\n>month warranty, fortunately. When it died, it died instantly and completely.\n\nI worked in support for a while at a company and we had problems with several\nToshiba 1600\'s in a short space of time. They were all around 2 years old.\nSome screens went completely (as above), others were just "dodgy".\n\nThis happened to about 5 or 6 out of, maybe 100. They were fairly reliable up\nto then and I don\'t think it was a special problem with Tosh\'s (no link to the\ncompany). So I would think that 21 months may not be unreasonable - just\nunlucky!\n\nRegards,\n\nKate. :)|\n-- \n~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~\n~ Kate Kingman \\ cstxqbe@dcs.warwick.ac.uk \\ I leave the typos to ~\n~ ** The Tall BlondE **\\ esudb@csv.warwick.ac.uk \\ occupy all the bored ~\n~\t:)|\t\t\\ \t:)|\t\t \\ people out there. :) ~\n',
"From: edimg@willard.atl.ga.us (Ed pimentel)\nSubject: 2nd RFD for Open Telematic Group for RealTime Multimedia Online apps\nOrganization: Willard's House BBS, Atlanta, GA -- +1 (404) 664 8814\nLines: 74\n\n \n \n RFD \n Request For Discussion \n for the\n OPEN TELEMATIC GROUP\n \n OTG\n \n \n \n \nI have proposed the forming of a consortium/task force for the promotion\nof NAPLPS/JPEG, FIF to openly discuss ways, method, \nprocedures,algorythms,\napplications, implementation, extensions of NAPLPS/JPEG standards.\nThese standards should facilitate the creation of REAL_TIME Online\napplications that make use of Voice, Video, Telecommuting, HiRes \ngraphics,\nConferencing, Distant Learning, Online order entry, Fax,in addition\nthese dicussion would assist all to better understand how SGML,CALS,\nODA,MIME,OODBMS,JPEG,MPEG,FRACTALS,SQL,CDrom,cdromXA,Kodak PhotoCD,TCL,\nV.FAST,EIA/TIA562,can best be incorporated and implemented to\ndevelop TELEMATIC/Multimedia applications....\n \nWe want to be able to support DOS, UNIX, MAC, WINDOWS, NT, OS/2 \nplatforms.\nIt is our hope that individuals,developers, corporations, Universities,\nR & D labs would join in in supporting such an endeavor.\n \nThis would be a NOT_FOR_PROFIT group with bylaws and charter. Already \nmany\ncorporation have decided to support OTG (Open TELEMATIC Group) so do not \ndelay joining if you are a developer\n \nAn RFD has been posted to form a usenet newsgroup and a FAQ will soon be \nbe compose to start promulgating what is known on the subject.\nIf you would like to be added to the mailist send email or mail to\nthe address below. \n \nThis group would publish an electronic quarterly NAPLPS/JPEG newsletter\nas well as a hardcopy version.\nWe urge all who wants to see CMCs HiRes based applications\n& the NAPLPS/JPEG G R O W, decide to join and mutually benefit from \nthis NOT-FOR_PROFIT endeavor.\n \nNOTE: Telematic has been defined by Mr. James Martin as the marriage\n of Voice, Video, Hi-res Graphics, Fax, IVR, Music over telephone\n lines/LAN.\n \n \n \nIf you would like to get involve write to me at:\n \n \n \n IMG Inter-Multimedia Group| Internet: epimntl@world.std.com \n P.O. Box 95901 | ed.pimentel@gisatl.fidonet.org \n Atlanta, Georgia, US | CIS : 70611,3703 \n | FidoNet : 1:133/407 \n | BBS : +1-404-985-1198 zyxel 14.4k\n \nTo all that have responded we are trying to acknowledge as soon as\npossible. We have really been inundated with org, corp, edu willing\nto get involve.\nIt would be nice if upon responded you can state in what capacity\nyou are willing to get involve.\n\n\n-- \nedimg@willard.atl.ga.us (Ed pimentel)\ngatech!kd4nc!vdbsan!willard!edimg\nemory!uumind!willard!edimg\nWillard's House BBS, Atlanta, GA -- +1 (404) 664 8814\n",
"From: jeffs@sr.hp.com (Jeff Silva)\nSubject: Re: HELP for Kidney Stones ..............\nOrganization: HP Sonoma County (SRSD/MWTD/MID)\nLines: 29\nX-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1.9 PL6]\n\npk115050@wvnvms.wvnet.edu wrote:\n: My girlfriend is in pain from kidney stones. She says that because she has no\n: medical insurance, she cannot get them removed.\n: \n: My question: Is there any way she can treat them herself, or at least mitigate\n: their effects? Any help is deeply appreciated. (Advice, referral to literature,\n: etc...)\n: \n: Thank you,\n: \n: Dave Carvell\n: pk115050@wvnvms.wvnet.edu\n\nFirst off, I would consider the severity of the pain. I had stones\nseveral years ago, and there's now way I could have made it without\nheavy duty doses of morphine and demerol and a two week stay in the\nhospital. I was told that there was nothing that I could take that would\ndissolve them. If the stones are passible, the best thing she could do\nis drink LOTS of water, and hope that they pass, but every time they\nmove a little, the pain will be excrutiating. I was told by my doctor\nat that time that the pain was comparable to that of childbirth. (Yes,\nby a male doctor, so I'm sure some of you women will disagree). I'd\nreally like to know the truth in this, so maybe some of you women who\nhave had a baby and a kidney stone could fill me in. \n--\n\nJeff Silva\n(707) 577-2681\njeffs@sr.hp.com\n",
'From: db7n+@andrew.cmu.edu (D. Andrew Byler)\nSubject: Re: Serbian genocide Work of God?\nOrganization: Freshman, Civil Engineering, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA\nLines: 91\n\nVera Shanti Noyes writes:\n\n>really? you may be right, but i\'d like proof. as far as i know (and\n\n"We however, shall be innocent of this sin, and will pray with earnest\nentreaty and supplication that the Creator of all may keep unharmed the\nnumbers of His elect."\n -St. Clement, Bishop of Rome, Letter to the Corinthians, 59.2, (c. 90 AD)\n\n"Ignatius also called Theophorus, to the Church at Ephesus in Asia,\nwhich is worthy of all felicitation, blessed as it is with greatness by\nthe fullness of God the Father, predestined from all eternity for a\nglory that is lasting and unchanging, united and chosen in true\nsuffering by the will of the Father in Jesus Christ our God..."\n -St. Ignatius, Bishop of Antioch, Letter to the Ephesians, Address,\n(c 110 AD)\n\n"We say therefore, that in substance, in concept, in orgin and in\neminece, the ancient and Catholic Church is alone, gathering as it does\ninto the unity of the one faith which results from the familiar\ncovenants .... those already chosen, those predestined by God who knew\nbefore the foundation of the world that they would be just."\n -St. Clement, Patriarch and Archbishop of Alexandria, Miscellanies,\n7.17.107.3, (c 205 AD)\n\nOf course the doctrine was explained more fully later on by Sts.\nAugustine, Aquinas, etc., but the seeds were ther from the beginning.\n\n>this is really confusing to me, especially since i still believe that\n>christ jesus died for ALL of us. preknowledge of obstinacy seems\n>like an awfully convoluted way to account for a couple of verses. but\n\nI think you are reading it wrong. I say those who are not saved are not\nsaved on account of their own sins. It is not because God did not give\nthem sufficient grace, for He does do so, in His desire that all men\nmight be saved. However, as only some are saved - and those who are\nsaved are saved by the grace of God, "not by works, lest any man should\nboast" - the others are damned because of their obstinacy in refusing to\nheed the call of God. They are damned by their own free will and\nchosing, a choice forseen by God in His causing them to be not\npredestined, but reprobated instead.\n\n>so God uses grace like margarine: he only spreads it where it\'s needed\n>and not where it isn\'t? and so there are the saved and the not-saved,\n>and nothing in between. hmmmm.\n\nCertainly God does not distribute grace evenly. If He did, no one could\nhave their heart hardened (or rather, harden their heart, thus causing\nGod to withdraw His grace). But, you are correct - the world is divided\ninto those who God knows to be saved, and those God knows to be on the\nroad to perdition. THe key is that God knows it and we do not. Thus,\nno one can boast in complete assurance that they are one of the elect\nand predestined. But no one who is a Christian in good standin should\ndoubt their salvation either (that shows a lack of trust in God).\n\n>be punished after we die. you\'re saying what we get after we die has\n>a direct bearing on how we live now? strange....\n\nYou must admit it is possible. Anyway, why would you want something in\nthe hear and know, when you can recieve 100 fold in heaven? Better to\nlay up your treasure in heaven is what Jesus said.\nThis is not to condemn the rich, but simply to point out that those who\nare rich are frequently very evil or immoral, so God must give them\ntheir blessing know, as they have chosen. Remeber, Jesus promised\ntribulation in this world, and hatred of others because we are\nChristians. He did not promise heaven on earth. He promised heaven.\n\n>so sin is either punished now or later -- and not both? what if it\'s\n> sort of half-punished? are there any grey areas in this doctrine?\n\nNot really. Unless you do penance here on earth, you will have to do it\nin Purgatory, as Paul pointed out (1 Corinthians 3.15). Those with\npoorer works, though still done with good intentions, will only be saved\nthrough fire (the damned will of course go into fire immeadiately, for\nwhatever good they did was not for God but for self (dead works)). Of\ncourse, the Church gives indulgences, has Confession, and Annointing of\nthe Sick to remove sin and the the vestiges of sin, so there is really\nlittle excuse for ending up in Purgatory - it is a last hope for the\nsomewhat lazy and careless as I said above in referring to Paul.\n\nAnd no comments were taken as flames. You are one of the more polite\npeople I have talked to over the net.\n\nAndy Byler\n\nps. As for Balkan military adventures, the old saw about that area is\nthat it produces more history then can be consumed locally: Alexander\nthe Great, WWI the Ottoman Empire, the Byzantine Empire (by which I\nrefer to stirfe and foreign adventures of them in general), the Balkans\nwars of 1913, the Latin-Greek wars of the 1200\'s, etc. Not a good place\nto hop into.\n',
'From: pbenson@ecst.csuchico.edu (Paul A. Benson)\nSubject: "What is Smithsonian Institution ftp address ?"\nOrganization: California State University, Chico\nLines: 9\nDistribution: usa\nNNTP-Posting-Host: cscihp.ecst.csuchico.edu\n\nDoes antone know the ftp address for the Smithsonian Institution\nwhere one can get digitized photographs, etc ?\nPlease reply by email to \npbenson@cscihp.ecst.csuchico.edu\n\nThanks\n\nPaul Benson\n\n',
'From: dfr@usna.navy.mil (PROF D. Rogers (EAS FAC))\nSubject: Re: Newsgroup Split\nOrganization: U. S. Naval Academy\nLines: 23\n\nIn article <C5r9BM.2LH@mach1.wlu.ca> mart4678@mach1.wlu.ca (Phil Martin u) writes:\n!Chris Herringshaw (tdawson@engin.umich.edu) wrote:\n!: Concerning the proposed newsgroup split, I personally am not in favor of\n!: doing this. I learn an awful lot about all aspects of graphics by reading\n!: this group, from code to hardware to algorithms. I just think making 5\n!: different groups out of this is a wate, and will only result in a few posts\n!: a week per group. I kind of like the convenience of having one big forum\n!: for discussing all aspects of graphics. Anyone else feel this way?\n!: Just curious.\n!\n!Yes. I also like knowing where to go to ask a question without getting\n!hell for putting it in the wrong newsgroup.\n\nI am also against splitting the group. The traffic will decrease\non any given subject but the required net bandwidth will INCREASE\nbecause of multiply cross-postings.\n\nI just went through this with another group I continuously read.\nIt is now almost at the point where it is no longer worth reading.\n\nStrongly suggest NOT doing this.\n\nDave Rogers\n',
'From: mls@panix.com (Michael Siemon)\nSubject: Re: Deuterocanonicals, esp. Sirach\nOrganization: PANIX Public Access Unix, NYC\nLines: 56\n\nIn <May.10.05.07.27.1993.3488@athos.rutgers.edu> mdw33310@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Michael D. Walker) writes:\n\n>\tThat last paragraph just about killed me. The Deuterocanonicals have\n>\tALWAYS been accepted as inspired scripture by the Catholic Church,\n>\twhich has existed much longer than any Protestant Church out there.\n>\tIt was Martin Luther who began hacking up the bible and deciding to\n>\tREMOVE certain books--not the fact that the Catholic Church decided\n>\tto add some much later--that is the reason for the difference between\n>\t"Catholic" and "Protestant" bibles. \n\nThis is misleading, at best. The question, really, has to do with the\nstatus of the Greek Septuagint versus Hebrew scripture. And the issue\npredates the Reformation by quite a bit -- Jerome was negative about the\n"deuteroncanonicals" and in fact, even though he transalted them, he put\nthem after the Hebrew canon (reordered from the Greek ordering to the\nHebrew one.) His translations of them were quick-and-dirty, also (he\nreports having done one of them in one day, and another overnight, just\ndictating his translation to an amanuensis.\n\nThat is to say, it is the Vulgate, and all of its massive importance in\nWestern Christianity, along with the veneration of Jerome, which took the\nfirst steps in "reducing" these books from the status they had (and have)\namong the Greeks.\n\nFurthermore, it is inaccurate to say that the Reformers "threw out" these\nbooks. Basically, they just placed them in a secondary status (as Jerome\nhad already done), but with the additional warning that doctrine should\nnot be based on citations from these ALONE.\n\nI think that the emphasis on the Hebrew originals is sound, though it\nseems somewhat arbitrary to disallow on the face of it a translation as\npart of a collection whose principles of selection (in Hebrew or Greek)\nare confused or unknown and likely fraught with accident. It also seems\nto play into a tendentious notion of the original languages being somehow\n"more inspired" -- as if magical, and conveying a message untranslatable\n-- than a translation, as if we could not hear God\'s word to the Jews in\nGreek (or German, or English, ...). This tendency seems to have got a\nbig boost in _sola scriptura_ Protestantism, even to the point of current\n"inerrancy" bizarreness, despite the more basic, underlying tendency of\nthe Reformers to see that the texts SHOULD and COULD be translated. If\nwe can profit from an English rendering of Hebrew and Greek, there is\nsurely little reason to keep Sirach, at least, out of our Bibles (and of\ncourse, Anglicans don\'t do so :-)). For texts originally in Greek, it\nwould seem more to be anti-Greek prejudice (notably, by the time the\nHebrew canon is fully attested, including anti-Christian prejudice which\nled to the Jewish abandonment of the Septuagint) which is operative.\n\nBTW: readers may enjoy some lectures of Bruce Metzger on the issues of\ntranslation of the Bible (including some of what I said about Jerome,\nabove) in the current numbers of the journal _Bibliotheca Sacra_; two\nof four have been published so far.\n-- \nMichael L. Siemon\t\tI say "You are gods, sons of the\nmls@panix.com\t\t\tMost High, all of you; nevertheless\n - or -\t\t\tyou shall die like men, and fall\nmls@ulysses.att..com\t\tlike any prince." Psalm 82:6-7\n',
"From: beck@irzr17.inf.tu-dresden.de (Andre Beck)\nSubject: Re: POV-Ray for VAX computer?????????\nOrganization: Dept. of Computer Science, TU Dresden, Germany.\nLines: 15\nDistribution: world\nReply-To: Andre_Beck@IRS.Inf.TU-Dresden.DE\nNNTP-Posting-Host: irzr17.inf.tu-dresden.de\n\n\n\nGet the generic version (for Unix and VMS) and build it. IMHO a\nVMS .com file to build it is supplied.\nAs the distribution comes as .tar.Z you should either have uncompress\nand tar on VMS or a UNIX flavoured machine handy.\nUsually you won't find this on IBM-PC specific archives, but on the better\nones :)\n\n--\n+-o-+--------------------------------------------------------------+-o-+\n| o | \\\\\\- Brain Inside -/// | o |\n| o | ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ | o |\n| o | Andre' Beck (ABPSoft) mehl: Andre_Beck@IRS.Inf.TU-Dresden.de | o |\n+-o-+--------------------------------------------------------------+-o-+\n",
"From: uabdpo.dpo.uab.edu!gila005 (Stephen Holland)\nSubject: Re: Annual inguinal hernia repair\nOrganization: Gastroenterology - Univ. of Alabama\nLines: 28\n\n> \n> In article <jpc.735692207@avdms8.msfc.nasa.gov>, jpc@avdms8.msfc.nasa.gov\n> (J. Porter Clark) wrote:\n> [synopsis] Young man with inguianl hernia on one side, repaired, now has\n> new hernia on other side. What gives, he asks? [and he continues...] \n> > Of course, my wife thinks it's from sitting for long periods of time at\n> > the computer, reading news...\n> \n> There is the possibility that there is some degree of constipation causing\n> chronic straining which has caused the bowel movements. The classic \n> problems that are supposed to be looked for in someone with a hernia are\n> constipation, chronic cough, colon cancer (and you're not too young for\n> that) and sitting for long periods of time at the computer, reading news.\n> \n> Good Luck with your surgery!\n> \n> Steve Holland\n\nWell, that post was not that accurate. People with early life hernias\nare felt to have a congenital sack that promotes the formation of hernias.\nThe hernias of later life may be more associated with chronic straining. \nHowever, the risk of damage to the intestine without an operation is \nhigh enough that it ought to be repaired. The risk of cancer is probably\nno higher than the general population, but since you are near 40, it would\nbe sensible to have some sort of cancer screening, such as a flexible\nsigmoidoscopy. Sorry for the misleading info.\n\nSteve Holland\n",
'From: lmvec@westminster.ac.uk (William Hargreaves)\nSubject: Re: Homosexuality issues in Christianity\nOrganization: University of Westminster\nLines: 20\n\nmuirm@argon.gas.organpipe.uug.arizona.edu (maxwell c muir) writes:\n: \n: In the NT, the clear references are all from Paul\'s letters. In Rom\n: 1, there is a passage that presupposes that homosexuality is an evil.\n: Note that the passage isn\'t about homosexuality -- it\'s about\n: idolatry. Homosexuality is visited on people as a punishment, or at\n: least result, of idolatry. There are a number of arguments over this\n: passage. It does not use the word "homosexuality", and it is referring\n: to people who are by nature heterosexual practicing homosexuality.\n: So it\'s not what I\'d call an explicit teaching against all homosexuality.\n\nThat\'s like saying that murder is only wrong for those of us who aren\'t natural\nmurders, and stealing is only wrong for those of us who aren\'t natural\nthieves.\n\nWill\n-- \n============================================\n| Dallas Cowboys - World Champions 1992-93 |\n============================================\n',
'From: rjg@doe.carleton.ca (Richard Griffith)\nSubject: Re: Burden of Proof\nOrganization: Dept. of Electronics, Carleton University\nLines: 23\n\nIn <1r4b59$7hg@aurora.engr.LaTech.edu> ray@engr.LaTech.edu (Bill Ray) writes:\n\n>If I make a statement, "That God exists, loves me, etc." but in no way\n>insist that you believe it, does that place a burden of proof upon me.\n>If you insist that God doesn\'t exist, does that place a burden of proof \n>upon you? I give no proofs, I only give testimony to my beliefs. I will\n>respond to proofs that you attempt to disprove my beliefs.\n\nWhat is your reaction to people who claim they were abducted by space aliens?\n\nSome of these people say, "I was abducted, experimented on, etc."\nIf we insist that these aliens don\'t exist is the burden of proof placed on\nus. These people can give no hard facts but can give a lot of testimony to\nback up their beliefs.\n\nReplace <space aliens> with <elvis>, <big foot>, <blue unicorns>, \nand we have a larger percentage of the population than I like to think\nabout.\n\nSometimes I wonder if reality really is a different experience for everone.\n\n',
"From: zyeh@caspian.usc.edu (zhenghao yeh)\nSubject: Definition of Occlusion\nOrganization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA\nLines: 14\nDistribution: world\nNNTP-Posting-Host: caspian.usc.edu\nKeywords: occlusion\n\n\nHi! Everyone,\n\nI don't clearly understand 'occlusion' in computer graphics.\nWould you please give me an explanation?\n\nBTW, what's the difference between 'occluded surface' and opaque surface?\n\nThanks in advance.\n\nYeh\nUSC\n\n\n",
"From: simonson@bert.eecs.uic.edu (Shai Simonson)\nSubject: DEC or PC Graphics Tools\nOrganization: University of Illinois at Chicago\nLines: 28\n\nI am applying for an NSF grant to buy equipment for a laboratory...\n\nThe lab will need to support C (or Pascal) with graphics tools...\n\n\nWe can run the lab either on PC's or DEC equipment --- \n\n\n\nIf you are familiar with appropriate products (software/hardware) and precise\nprices. Please contact\n\n\nshai@lcc.stonehill.edu\n\n\nWe are interested in any available acadmic discounts....\n\n\nAlso, if anyone runs a lab using similar software/hardware, I would be very\ninterested in hearing your opinions of its success\n\nThanks\n\nShai SImonson\nStonehill College\nN easton Ma 02357\ne\n",
"From: dgraham@bmers30.bnr.ca (Douglas Graham)\nSubject: Re: thoughts on christians\nOrganization: Bell-Northern Research, Ottawa, Canada\nLines: 17\n\nIn article <C5rGKB.4Fs@darkside.osrhe.uoknor.edu> bil@okcforum.osrhe.edu (Bill Conner) writes:\n>Kent Sandvik (sandvik@newton.apple.com) wrote:\n>: The social pressure is indeed a very important factor for the majority\n>: of passive Christians in our world today. In the case of early Christianity\n>: the promise of a heavenly afterlife, independent of your social status,\n>: was also a very promising gift (reason slaves and non-Romans accepted\n>: the religion very rapidly).\n>\n>If this is a hypothetical proposition, you should say so, if it's\n>fact, you should cite your sources. If all this is the amateur\n>sociologist sub-branch of a.a however, it would suffice to alert the\n>unwary that you are just screwing around ...\n\nWhat would you accept as sources? This very thing has been written\nin lots of books. You could start with Erich Fromm's _The Dogma of Christ_.\n--\nDoug Graham dgraham@bnr.ca My opinions are my own.\n",
"Organization: Penn State University\nFrom: Andrew Newell <TAN102@psuvm.psu.edu>\nSubject: Re: YOU WILL ALL GO TO HELL!!!\n <1993Apr16.223250.15242@ncsu.edu> <1993Apr21.144114.8057@wam.umd.edu>\nLines: 38\n\nIn article <1993Apr21.144114.8057@wam.umd.edu>, willdb@wam.umd.edu (William\nDavid Battles) says:\n>\n>In article <1993Apr16.223250.15242@ncsu.edu> aiken@news.ncsu.edu (Wayne NMI\n>Aiken) writes:\n>>JSN104@psuvm.psu.edu wrote:\n>>: YOU BLASHEPHEMERS!!! YOU WILL ALL GO TO HELL FOR NOT BELIEVING IN GOD!!!! E\n>B\n>>: PREPARED FOR YOUR ETERNAL DAMNATION!!!\n>>\n>>Did someone leave their terminal unattended again?\n>\n>Probably not! The jesus freak's post is probably JSN104@PSUVM. Penn State\n>is just loaded to the hilt with bible bangers. I use to go there *vomit* and\n>it was the reason I left. They even had a group try to stop playing\n>rock music in the dining halls one year cuz they deemed it satanic. Kampus\n>Krusade for Khrist people run the damn place for the most part....except\n>the Liberal Arts departments...they are the safe havens.\n\nSounds like you were going to a different Penn State or something.\nKampus Krusade for Khrist is very vocal here, but they really have\nlittle power to get anything done. Sometimes it seems like there\nare a lot of them because they're generally more vocal than their\nopposition, but there really aren't that many Krusaders.\n\nThe liberals tend to keep to themselves if they can help it, since\nall they really want is to be allowed to go about their own lives\nthe way they want to. ...so you don't hear from or about most of\nthem. The bible-bangers stand out because they want everyone to\nbe forced to live according to bible-banger rules.\n\nThe Krusaders certainly don't run this place.\n\nI'd say we've got a rather average mix. of people here....\nmuch like the rest of the U.S. And just like everywhere else,\nsome factions are louder than others.\n\nAndrew\n",
'From: "Gaetan Lord, Ecole Polytechnique de Montreal" <DG03@music.mus.polymtl.ca>\nSubject: HPGL viewer and utilities\nLines: 20\nOrganization: Ecole Polytechnique de Montreal\n\nHi\n\nI would like to know if there is any software, PD or not, who\ncould produce X11 output of HPGL file on RS/6000. And same kind of\nsoftware who could produce hardcopy on postscript and lasetjet.\n\nThank You\n\n+----------------------------------------------------------------------+\n| |\n| Gaetan Lord | VOICE: (514) 340-4352 |\n! analyste | FAX: (514) 340-4189 |\n| Ecole Polytechnique de Montreal | |\n| P.O. Box 6079 Station A | |\n| Montreal, Quebec | |\n| Canada | THERE\'S NO FUTURE IN TIME TRAVEL. |\n| J0T-2C0 | ********************************* |\n| |\n+----------------------------------------------------------------------+\n\n',
'From: gecko@camelot.bradley.edu (Anastasia Defend)\nSubject: Physical Therapy Students\nNntp-Posting-Host: camelot.bradley.edu\nOrganization: Bradley University\nLines: 13\n\n\n\nI am interested in finding other Physical Therapy Students on the\nnet...If you are one, or you know anyone could you get into contact\nwith me via email, my address is\n\ngecko@camelot.bradley.edu\n\n\n\t\t\t\tthankyou\n\n\t\t\t\t\tanastasia\n \n',
"From: shellgate!llo@uu4.psi.com (Larry L. Overacker)\nSubject: Re: Christianity and repeated lives\nOrganization: Shell Oil\nLines: 17\n\nIn article <May.11.02.38.37.1993.28288@athos.rutgers.edu> KEVXU@cunyvm.bitnet writes:\n>\n>Isn't Origen usually cited as the most prestigious proponent of reincarnation\n>among Christian thinkers? What were his views, and how did he relate them\n>to the Christian scriptures?\n\nHe appears to have believed that. He had a view which was condemned by conciliar\naction, which is often taken to be condemnation of the idea of reincarnation.\nWhat was actually condemned was the doctrine of the pre-existence of the soul\nbefore birth. Similar, but not exactly the same thing. \n\nLarry Overacker (ll@shell.com)\n-- \n-------\nLawrence Overacker\nShell Oil Company, Information Center Houston, TX (713) 245-2965\nllo@shell.com\n",
'From: "Robert Knowles" <p00261@psilink.com>\nSubject: Re: THE POPE IS JEWISH!\nIn-Reply-To: <bruce.735329589@cortex>\nNntp-Posting-Host: 127.0.0.1\nOrganization: Performance Systems Int\'l\nX-Mailer: PSILink-DOS (3.3)\nLines: 35\n\n>DATE: Tue, 20 Apr 1993 18:13:09 GMT\n>FROM: R. Bruce Rakes <bruce@cortex.dixie.com>\n>\n>mcgoy@unicorn.acs.ttu.edu (David McGaughey) writes:\n>\n>>I always thought that the Pope was a bear.\n>\n>>You know, because of that little saying:\n>\n>>Does a bear shit in the woods?\n>>Is the Pope Catholic?\n>\n>>There MUST be SOME connection between those two lines!\n>\n>And I always heard it:\n>\n>Is the bear Catholic?\n>Does the pope ????\n>\n>Oh nevermind!\n>-- \n>R. Bruce Rakes, Software Systems Manager\n>Elekta Instruments, Inc. 8 Executive Park W, Suite 809, Atlanta, GA 30329\n>Voice:(404)315-1225 FAX:(404)315-7850 email: bruce@elekta.com\n> \n\nAnyone from Alabama knows it should be:\n\nIs "The Bear" Catholic?\nDoes a Pope shit in the woods?\n\nThe Pope may not be a bear, but "The Bear" is a god.\n(Paul "Bear" Bryant, Football coach/god, University of Alabama.)\n\n\n',
'From: mam@mouse.cmhnet.org (Mike McAngus)\nSubject: Re: Americans and Evolution\nOrganization: The cat is on the mat \nX-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL9]\nLines: 53\n\nOn Tue, 20 Apr 1993 04:49:18 GMT bil@okcforum.osrhe.edu (Bill Conner) wrote:\n>Robert Singleton (bobs@thnext.mit.edu) wrote:\n\n>: > Sure it isn\'t mutually exclusive, but it lends weight to (i.e. increases\n>: > notional running estimates of the posterior probability of) the \n>: > atheist\'s pitch in the partition, and thus necessarily reduces the same \n>: > quantity in the theist\'s pitch. This is because the `divine component\' \n>: > falls prey to Ockham\'s Razor, the phenomenon being satisfactorily \n>: ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^\n>: > explained without it, and there being no independent evidence of any \n>: ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^\n>: > such component. More detail in the next post.\n>: > \n\n>Occam\'s Razor is not a law of nature, it is way of analyzing an\n>argument, even so, it interesting how often it\'s cited here and to\n>what end. \n>It seems odd that religion is simultaneously condemned as being\n>primitive, simple-minded and unscientific, anti-intellectual and\n>childish, and yet again condemned as being too complex (Occam\'s\n>razor), the scientific explanation of things being much more\n>straightforeward and, apparently, simpler. \n\nCute characterization Bill; however, there is no inconsistency between \nthe two statements. Even if one believes that religion is "primitive, \nsimple-minded and unscientific, anti-intellectual and childish", one\ncan still hold the view that religion also adds an unnecessary level of\ncomplexity to the explanation. The ideas themselves don\'t have to be\ncomplex before being excised by Occam\'s Razor, they only have to add \nunnecessarily to the overall complexity of the description.\n\n> Which is it to be - which\n>is the "non-essential", and how do you know?\n\nI think the non-essential part of an explanatory system is one that\nadds no predictive capability to the system.\n\n>Considering that even scientists don\'t fully comprehend science due to\n>its complexity and diversity. Maybe William of Occam has performed a\n>lobotomy, kept the frontal lobe and thrown everything else away ...\n\nHuh?\n\n>This is all very confusing, I\'m sure one of you will straighten me out\n>tough.\n ^^^^^\nWatch it, your Freudian Slip is showing\n\n--\nMike McAngus | The Truth is still the Truth\nmam@mouse.cmhnet.org | Even if you choose to ignore it.\n |\n(Some of the old .sig viruses are still the best)\n',
'From: s127@ii.uib.no (Torgeir Veimo)\nSubject: C++ classes for graphics\nOrganization: Institutt for Informatikk UIB Norway\nLines: 16\n\nI\'m planning on writing several classes to build a raytracing/radiosity library\non top of, and i\'m wondering if anythink like this is freely available on the\nnet before i go to it. What i need is classes like rays, vectors, colors,\nshaders, surfaces, media, primitives, worlds (containing primitives) and\nviews/images.\n\nPlease post or mail.\n-- \nTorgeir Veimo\n\nStudying at the University of Bergen\n\n"...I\'m gona wave my freak flag high!" (Jimi Hendrix)\n\n"...and it would be okay on any other day!" (The Police)\n\n',
'From: ceci@lysator.liu.se (Cecilia Henningsson)\nSubject: Q: Repelling wasps?\nSummary: How do I repel wasps?\nKeywords: wasp\nOrganization: Lysator ACS at Linkoping University\nLines: 43\n\n(This is a cross post to rec.gardens and sci.med. Set the follow-up\n(line in the header, depending on what kind of advice you give, or\n(e-mail directly to me: ceci@lysator.liu.se.)\n\nI have a problem with wasps -- they seem to love me. Last summer I\ncouldn\'t spend more than ten to fifteen minutes at a time in my garden\nbefore one or several wasps would come for me. I am asking for advice\non how to repel wasps.\n\n This year the wasps have built their nest under a stone next to one\nof my tiny ponds. The caretaker (poor fellow!) will have to take care\nof them, and that will give me a head start on them. Last year we\ncouldn\'t find any nest. Even after the caretaker has gassed the nest\nin my tiny garden of 30 square meter, other wasps will most likely vie\nfor the territory. Is there anything I can grow, rub on my skin or\nspread on the soil that will repel the black and yellow bastards?\nNever mind if it turns my skin purple or kills off all my beloved\nplants, I want to be able to spend time in my garden like everyone\nelse.\n\n Would it help to remove the ponds and the bird bath? The wasps seem\nto come to drink at them, and I suppose that their prey will breed in\nthem. The black tits seem to be afraid of the wasps, because as soon\nas the wasp season starts, they stop coming to have their bath.\n\nEven when I am not trying to win back my patio from 15-20 wasps, they\nseem to love me. The advice I usually get when I ask what to do about\nwasps, is to stand still and not wave my arms. I\'ve got some painful\nstings when trying to follow that advice. I have also tried to use\nhygienic products without perfumes, to no avail. They still love me,\nand come for me, even when I\'m in the middle of a crowd. So far only\ntwo things seem to work: To kill it dead or to run into the house and\nclose all doors and windows. \n\nNB: I don\'t have a problem with bees or bumble-bees, just wasps.\n Patronizing advice redirected to /dev/null.\n\n--Ceci\n--\n=====ceci@lysator.liu.se===========================================\n"The number of rational hypotheses that can explain any given\n phenomenon is infinite."\nPhaedrus\' law from RM Pirsig\'s _Zen_and_the_Art_of_Motorcycle_Maintenance_\n',
'From: z_nixsp@ccsvax.sfasu.edu\nSubject: Re: TIFF -> Anything?!\nOrganization: Stephen F. Austin State University\nLines: 14\n\n> There is a program called Graphic Workshop you can FTP from\n> wuarchive. The file is in the msdos/graphics directory and\n> is called "grfwk61t.zip." This program should od everthing\n> you need.\n> \n> TMC\n> (tmc@spartan.ac.BrockU.ca)\n> \n\nCould you be more specific? I need that file too but couldn\'t find it \namongst ALL the directories at wuarchive.\n\n-Page\nZ_NIXSP@CCSVAX.SFASU.EDU\n',
"From: graeme@labtam.labtam.oz.au (Graeme Gill)\nSubject: Re: HELP: Need 24 bits viewer\nKeywords: 24 bit\nOrganization: Labtam Australia Pty. Ltd., Melbourne, Australia\nLines: 10\n\nIn article <5713@seti.inria.fr>, deniaud@cartoon.inria.fr (Gilles Deniaud) writes:\n> Hi,\n> \n> I'm looking for a program which is able to display 24 bits\n> images. We are using a Sun Sparc equipped with Parallax\n> graphics board running X11.\n\n\txli, xloadimage or ImageMagick - export.lcs.mit.edu [18.24.0.12] /contrib\n\n\tGraeme Gill\n",
'From: madhaus@netcom.com (Maddi Hausmann)\nSubject: Re: Amusing atheists and agnostics\nOrganization: Society for Putting Things on Top of Other Things\nLines: 26\n\ntimmbake@mcl.ucsb.edu ("Half" Bake Timmons) writes: >\nMaddi: >>\n\n>>Whirr click whirr...Frank O\'Dwyer might also be contained\n>>in that shell...pop stack to determine...whirr...click..whirr\n>\n>>"Killfile" Keith Allen Schneider = Frank "Closet Theist" O\'Dwyer = ...\n\n>= Maddi "The Mad Sound-O-Geek" Hausmann\n\nNo, no, no! I\'ve already been named by "Killfile" Keith.\nMy nickname is Maddi "Never a Useful Post" Hausmann, and\ndon\'t you DARE forget it, "Half".\n\n>-- "...there\'s nothing higher, stronger, more wholesome and more useful in life\n>than some good memory..." -- Alyosha in Brothers Karamazov (Dostoevsky)\n\nYou really should quote Ivan Karamazov instead(on a.a), as he was\nthe atheist.\n\n-- \nMaddi Hausmann madhaus@netcom.com\nCentigram Communications Corp San Jose California 408/428-3553\n\nKids, please don\'t try this at home. Remember, I post professionally.\n\n',
'From: aldridge@netcom.com (Jacquelin Aldridge)\nSubject: Re: cholistasis(sp?)/fat-free diet/pregnancy!!\nOrganization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)\nLines: 123\n\nheart@access.digex.com (G) writes:\n\n>Hi,\n\n>I\'ve just returned from a visit with my OB/GYN and I have a few \n>concerns that maybe y\'all can help me with. I\'ve been seeing \n>her every 4 weeks for the past few months (I\'m at week 28) \n>and during the last 2 visits I\'ve gained 9 to 9 1/2 pounds every \n>4 weeks. She said this was unacceptable over any 4 week period. \n>As it stands I\'ve thus far gained 26 pounds. Also she says that \n>though I\'m at 28 weeks the baby\'s size is 27 weeks, I think she \n>mentioned 27 inches for the top of the fundus. When I was 13 \n>weeks the baby\'s size was 14 weeks. I must also add, that I had \n>an operation a few years ago for endometriosis and I\'ve had no \n>problems with endometriosis but apparently it is causing me pain \n>in my pelvic region during the pregnancy, and I have a very \n>difficult time moving, and the doc has recommended I not walk or \n>move unless I have to. (I have a little handicapped sticker for \n>when I do need to go out.) \n\n>Anyway that\'s 1/2 of the situation the other is that almost from \n>the beginning of pregnancy I was getting sick (throwing up) about \n>2-3 times a day and mostly it was bile that was being eliminated. \n>(I told her about this). I know this because I wasn\'t eating \n>very much due to the nausea and could see the \'results\'. Well \n>now I only get sick about once every 1-2 weeks, and it is still bile \n>related. But in addition I had begun to feel movement near my \n>upper right abdomen, just below the right breast, usually when I \n>was lying on my right side. It began to get worse though because \n>it started to hurt when I lay on my right side, and then it hurt \n>no matter what position I was in. Next, I noticed that when I \n>ate greasy or fatty foods I felt like my entire abdomen had \n>turned to stone, and the pain in the area got worse. However if \n>I ate sauerkraut or vinegar or something to \'cut\' the fat it \n>wasn\'t as much of a problem.\n\n>So the doctor says I have cholistatis, and that I should avoid \n>fatty foods. This makes sense, and because I was already aware \n>of what seemed to me this cause and effect relationship I have \n>been avoiding these foods on my own. But I\'m still able to eat \n>foods with Ricotta cheese for instance and other low fat foods. \n\n>But doc wants me to be on a non-fat diet. This means no meat \n>except fish and chicken w/o skin (I do this anyway). No nuts, \n>fried food, cheese etc. I am allowed skim milk. She said I \n>should avoid anything sweet (e.g. bananas). Also I must only \n>have one serving of something high in carbohydrates a day ( \n>potatoes, pasta, rice)! She said I can\'t even cook vegetables in \n>a little bit of oil and that I should eat vegetables raw or \n>steamed. I\'m concerned because I understand you need to have \n>some fat in your diet to help in the digestive process. And if \n>I\'m not taking in fat, is she expecting the baby will take it \n>from my stores? And why this restriction on carbohydrates if \n>she\'s concerned about fat? I\'m not clear how much of her \n>recommendation is based on my weight gain and how much on \n>cholistatis, which I can\'t seem to find any information on. She \n>originally said that I should only gain 20 pounds during the \n>entire pregnancy since I was about 20 lbs overweight when I \n>started. But my sister gained 60 lbs during her pregnancy and \n>she\'s taken it all off and hasn\'t had any problems. She also \n>asked if any members of my family were obese, which none of them \n>are. Anyway I think she is overly concerned about weight gain, \n>and feel like I\'m being \'punished\' by a severe diet. She did \n>want to see me again in one week so I think she the diet may be \n>temporary for that one week. \n\n>What I want to know is how reasonable is this non-fat diet? I \n>would understand if she had said low-fat diet, since I\'m trying \n>that anyway, even if she said really low-fat diet. I think she \n>assumes I must be eating a high-fat diet, but really it is that \n>because of the endometriosis and the operation I\'m not able to \n>use the energy from the food I do eat. \n\n>Any opinions, info and experiences will be appreciated. I\'m \n>truly going stark raving mad trying to meet this new strict diet \n>because fruits and vegetables go through my system in a few \n>minutes and I\'ll end up having to eat constantly. Thus far I \n>don\'t find any foods satisfying.\n\n>Thanks \n\n>G\n\nFor one week, she probably wants to see how you react to the diet. If it\nchanges anything. \n\nYou can live on the diet but you need to up your calories. Where before you\nhad a pat of butter now you need a medium apple (probably microwave\ncooked). Smaller meals but more of them. Not terrific amounts of meat, it\'s\nhard to digest anyway. \n\nFor comfort and to make the carbohydrate meal "last" longer eat pasta or\nrice which give their calories up slowly rather than bread or corn. Maybe\nsmaller meals as you may be getting less room in the stomach area. Is the\nbaby still coming up. Is it starting to push or rub under your ribs? How\ntight are your clothes. You shouldn\'t be wearing any clothing that compresses \nyour middle. Be sure not to "suck in" your stomach when sitting, again it\nwill put pressure on the digestive tract. \n\nTry laying on your sides, back,\nand stay in reclining positions for the many hours you are being inactive.\nEasier on your legs (circulation) as well. You might try letting the baby\n"turn" or at least not be forced under the ribs during the last months.\nWhen you are shortwaisted it\'s easy for that baby to end up right under the\ndiaphram, especially if you have tight abdominal muscles. If I had my\nsecond one to do over again I think I\'d have tried to loosen up since he\ndidn\'t turn sideways until late and the relief was enormous.\n\n\nMaybe this doctor does have a thing about weight gain in pregnancy or maybe\nshe just nags all her patients this way. Especially if she\'s young. \nBut this gallbladder/whatever problem that might be coming up is something\nto be avoided if possible. \n\nNausea, etc. can vary from person to person and with each pregnancy. My\nfirst pregnancy was miserable. During the second I had very little trouble.\nSome articles have said that women with nausea had a statistically better\nchance of carrying their baby. (grain of salt here) \n\nGood luck\n\n-Jackie-\n\n',
'From: acooper@mac.cc.macalstr.edu (Turin Turambar, ME Department of Utter Misery)\nSubject: Re: Societally acceptable behavior\nOrganization: Macalester College\nLines: 95\n\nIn article <C5s9tv.10H@news.cso.uiuc.edu>, cobb@alexia.lis.uiuc.edu (Mike Cobb) writes:\n> In <1qvh8tINNsg6@citation.ksu.ksu.edu> yohan@citation.ksu.ksu.edu (Jonathan W \n> Newton) writes:\n> \n> \n>>In article <C5qGM3.DL8@news.cso.uiuc.edu>, cobb@alexia.lis.uiuc.edu (Mike \n> Cobb) writes:\n>>>Merely a question for the basis of morality\n>>>\n>>>Moral/Ethical behavior = _Societally_ _acceptable_ _behavior_.\n> \n>>I disagree with these. What society thinks should be irrelevant. What the\n>>individual decides is all that is important.\n> \n> This doesn\'t seem right. If I want to kill you, I can because that is what I\n> decide?\n\nExactly. Although this may be a dissapointing answer, there has to be an\ninterplay of the two. Personal Ethos and Societal Morality. A person\'s\nself-generated/learned set of beliefs are usually expressed on a purely\nmental/verbal level, and don\'t usually find expression in society except in an\nimpure (not in the sense of bad :) ) state. Sometimes this has to be so.\n\n>>>\n>>>1)Who is society\n> \n>>I think this is fairly obvious\n> \n> Not really. If whatever a particular society mandates as ok is ok, there are\n> always some in the "society" who disagree with the mandates, so which \n> societal mandates make the standard for morality?\n\nAlso, what if one feels oneself to be part of more than one society, in a very\nreal sense? To use the obvious example, there is a political society, and a\nracial society, and a gender society, and sometimes they do not always agree on\nevery issue...\n\n> >>\n>>>2)How do "they" define what is acceptable?\n> \n>>Generally by what they "feel" is right, which is the most idiotic policy I can\n>>think of.\n> \n> So what should be the basis? Unfortunately I have to admit to being tied at \n> least loosely to the "feeling", in that I think we intuitively know some things\n> to be wrong. Awfully hard to defend, though.\n\n\nYes. Perhaps with an infamous "do what you want so long as it doesn\'t hurt\nothers?" The problem with this is that it is merely saying what you CAN do: it\nis not a morality in that it doesn\'t propound any specifically preferred\nbehaviours.\n\n>>>\n>>>3)How do we keep from a "whatever is legal is what is "moral" "position?\n> \n>>By thinking for ourselves.\n> \n> I might agree here. Just because certain actions are legal does not make them\n> "moral".\n\nI\'ll add a hearty "me two". However, one could just as well say just because\ncertain actions are moral does not make them legal: one still doesn\'t really\nget an impression of which one is truly "right".\n\n\n>>>\n>>>MAC\n>>>--\n>>>****************************************************************\n>>> Michael A. Cobb\n>>> "...and I won\'t raise taxes on the middle University of Illinois\n>>> class to pay for my programs." Champaign-Urbana\n>>> -Bill Clinton 3rd Debate cobb@alexia.lis.uiuc.edu\n>>> \n>>>With new taxes and spending cuts we\'ll still have 310 billion dollar \n> deficits.\n> \n> --\n> ****************************************************************\n> Michael A. Cobb\n> "...and I won\'t raise taxes on the middle University of Illinois\n> class to pay for my programs." Champaign-Urbana\n> -Bill Clinton 3rd Debate cobb@alexia.lis.uiuc.edu\n> \n> Nobody can explain everything to anybody. G.K.Chesterton\n\n\nbest regards,\n\n********************************************************************************\n* Adam John Cooper\t\t"Verily, often have I laughed at the weaklings *\n* (612) 696-7521\t\t who thought themselves good simply because *\n* acooper@macalstr.edu\t\t\t\tthey had no claws."\t *\n********************************************************************************\n',
"From: daruwala@slinky.ims (Raoul-Sam Daruwala)\nSubject: VRrend386, where is it kept?\nKeywords: VRrend386\nReply-To: daruwala@cs.nyu.edu\nOrganization: Sun Microsystems\nLines: 8\n\nI'm told that VRrend386 is available on the internet. I wanted to know where it is.\n\nThanks in advance.\n\nRaoul\n\ndaruwala@cs.nyu.edu\n\n",
'From: sun075!Gerry.Palo@uunet.uu.net (Gerry Palo)\nSubject: Re: Christianity and repeated lives\nLines: 48\n\nIn article <May.12.04.26.40.1993.9887@athos.rutgers.edu> u9245669@athmail1.cause\nway.qub.ac.uk writes (single angle brackets):\n\n>> Jesus is talking with the\n>>apostles and they ask him why the pharisees say that before the messiah can \n>>come Elijah must first come. Jesus replies that Elijah has come, but they did \n>>not recognize him. It then says that the apostles perceived that he was referi\nng \n>>to John the Baptist. This seems to me to clearly imply reincarnation.\n>\n>This was a popular belief in the Judaism of Jesus` time, that Elijah\n>would return again (as he had been taken in to heaven in a chariot and\n>did not actually die). However Jesus was referring to John the\n>Baptist not in the sense that Elijah was reincarnated as John\n>(remember Elijah didn`t die) but that John was a similar prophet to\n>Elijah. >\n\nThere is no question of similarity in Jesus indication about John.\nThe passage in Matthew is very direct. Where Luke (1:17) reports\nthe angel Gabriel prophesying that John will go before Christ "in the \npower and spirit of Elias", In Matthew 11: 14, Jesus himself says of John,\n \n "And if you care to accept it, he himself is Elijah, who\n was to come".\n\nIt is interesting that Jesus prepended the words, "If you care to accept\nit", as if to say that the implications of this truth, namely of rein-\ncarnation, I will not force on you, but for those who can accept it, here it\nis. A Jewish poster to other newsgroups on Jewish esotericism and other\ntopics has outlined the esoteric, cabbalistic Jewish teaching of of\nreincarnation and Karma, a teaching that is little known among Jews\ntoday, but which is apparently widespread enough in Israel that Hannah\nHurnard ("Hinds Feet on High Places") was told about it by a Rabbi\nshe was trying to convert back in the 1940s as a missionary in Palestine.\nThus there may well have been a small number of Jews who knew about this,\nwhereas the large number of people did not. The statement of Jesus about \nJohn, the greatest human personality in the New Testament, is guarded\nbut nevertheless quite direct. Again, the subject of reincarnation, one\nway or another, is not a subject of the New Testament, nor is the fate in general\nof the human being between death and the last judgement. But there are \noccasional indications that point to it.\n\nAs for the "popular belief" that Elijah would come again, it was more than \na popular belief, as Jesus confirms it in more than one place, and he never \ncorrected those who were expecting Elijah -- for example, those who thought \nthat Jesus himself be he.\n\nGerry Palo (73237.2006@compuserve.com)\n',
'From: wjhovi01@ulkyvx.louisville.edu\nSubject: Re: Homosexuality issues in Christianity\nOrganization: University of Louisville\nLines: 19\n\nbruce@liv.ac.uk (Bruce Stephens) suggests different levels of acceptance of\nhomosexuality:\n> \n> 1) Regard homosexual orientation as a sin (or evil, whatever)\n> 2) Regard homosexual behaviour as a sin, but accept orientation\n> (though presumably orientation is unfortunate) and dislike people who\n> indulge\n> 3) As 2, but "love the sinner"\n> 4) Accept homosexuality altogether.\n\nI would add 4\': our churches should accept homosexual orientation but hold all\npeople to certain standards of sexual behavior. Promiscuity, abuse of power\nrelationships, harrassment, compulsivity are equally out of place in the lives\nof homosexual as of heterosexual people.\n\nOf course, this would bring up the dread shibboleth of homosexual marriage,\nand we couldn\'t have that! :-)\n\nbillh\n',
"From: jlecher@pbs.org\nSubject: Re: cure for dry skin?\nDistribution: world\nOrganization: PBS:Public Broadcasting Service, Alexandria, VA\nLines: 33\n\nIn article <1rmn0c$83v@morrow.stanford.edu>, mou@nova1.stanford.edu (Alex Mou) writes:\n> Hi all,\n> \n> My skin is very dry in general. But the most serious part is located\n> from knees down. The skin there looks like segmented. The segmentation\n> actually happens beneath the skin. I would like to know if there is any\n> cure for this.\n> \n> At the supermarkets or pharmacies, there are quite a lot of stuffs for\n> dry skins, but what to chose?\n> \n> Thanks in advance for all advices and hints.\n> \n> Reply by email preferred.\n> \n> Alex\n> \n> \n\nAs a matter of fact, I just saw a dermatologist the other day, and while I \nwas there, I asked him about dry skin. I'd been spending a small fortune\non various creams, lotions, and other dry skin treatments.\nHe said all I needed was a large jar of vaseline. Soak in a lukewarm tub\nof water for 10 minutes (ONLY 10 minutes!) then massage in the vaseline,\nto trap the moisture in. That will help. I haven't tried it yet, but you\ncan bet I will. The hard part will be finding the time to rub in the\nvaseline properly. If it's not done right, you remain greasy and stick\nto your clothes.\nTry it. It's got to be cheaper then spending $30 for 8 oz. of 'natural'\nlotion.\n\nJane\n\n",
'From: mmatusev@radford.vak12ed.edu (Melissa N. Matusevich)\nSubject: Re: Nose Picking\nOrganization: Virginia\'s Public Education Network (Radford)\nLines: 5\n\nI don\'t know if it causes the body any harm, but in the 23\nyears I\'ve been teaching nine and ten years olds I\'ve never had\none fall over from eating "boogers" which many kids do on a\nregular basis [when they think no one is looking . . .]\n\n',
'From: kilroy@gboro.rowan.edu (Dr Nancy\'s Sweetie)\nSubject: Does Anyone Remember . . .\nOrganization: Rowan College of New Jersey\nLines: 30\n\nSome years ago -- possibly as many as five -- there was a discussion on\nnumerology. (That\'s where you assign numeric values to letters and then add\nup the letters in words, in an effort to prove something or another. I can\nnever make any sense of how it\'s supposed to work or what it\'s supposed to\nprove.)\n\nSomebody posted a long article about numerology in the Bible, saying\nthings like "this proves the intricate planning of the Scriptures, else\nthese patterns would not appear".\n\nThen there was a brilliant followup, which was about numerology in all the\nother numerology posts. Stuff like "The word `numerology\' adds up to 28,\nand the word appears 28 times in the posting! Such elegant planning!\nFurther, the word `truth\' ALSO adds up to 28; the writer is using these\nnumerological clues to show us that we reach truth via numerology!"\n(These examples are made up by me just as examples.)\n\nI really liked that reply, because it did such an excellent job of showing\nthat these patterns can be found in just about anything. However, I did\nnot save a copy of it. I do not remember the author. I\'m only 90% sure\nthat it was posted to this newsgroup.\n\nBUT, on the off chance that somebody remembers it and saved it, or that the\nauthor is reading here, I wanted to know if anyone could send me a copy. (I\nthink it should be made into an FAQ, if we can find it.)\n\n\nDarren F Provine / kilroy@gboro.rowan.edu\n"I use not only all the brains I have, but all those I can borrow as well."\n -- Woodrow Wilson\n',
'From: adaptive@cs.nps.navy.mil (zyda res acct)\nSubject: Re: 3d Head model ... (not again, groan)\nOrganization: Naval Postgraduate School, Monterey\nLines: 40\n\n>O.K., sorry to post a question which seems to crop up\n>quite regularly in this group however I have yet\n>to get a specific and usefull (in my context) answer \n>to where I can get hold of 3d data for a head.\n>\n>WHAT I AM LOOKING FOR :\n>\n>Simple polyon description of head / face which can be EASILY\n>converted for, or used with, POV (raytracer). \n>(i.e. <1500 polygons)\n\nWell, I am placing a file at my ftp today that contains several\npolygonal descriptions of a head, face, skull, vase, etc. The format\nof the files is a list of vertices, normals, and triangles. There are\nvarious resolutions and the name of the data file includes the number\nof polygons, eg. phred.1.3k.vbl contains 1300 polygons.\n\n\nIn order to get the data via ftp do the following:\n\n\t1) ftp taurus.cs.nps.navy.mil\n\t2) login as anonymous, guest as the password\n\t3) cd pub/dabro\n\t4) binary\n\t5) get cyber.tar.Z\n\nOnce you get the data onto your workstation:\n\n\t1) uncompress data.tar.Z\n\t2) tar xvof data.tar\n\nIf you have any questions, please let me know.\n\ngeorge dabro\ndabro@taurus.cs.nps.navy.mil\n-- \ngeorge dabrowski\nCyberware Labs\n\ndabro@taurus.cs.nps.navy.mil\n',
'From: brother.roy@almac.co.uk (Brother Roy)\nSubject: RFD: soc.religion.taize\nOrganization: Almac BBS Ltd. +44 (0)324 665371\nLines: 114\nNNTP-Posting-Host: rodan.uu.net\n\nThis is a RFD on a proposal for a newsgroup which would promote a \nsharing on the "Johannine hours" as proposed each month by the monks of \nthe ecumenical community of Taize (pronounced te-zay) in France.\n\nNAME OF PROPOSED NEWSGROUP: \n==========================\n\nsoc.religion.taize (Unmoderated)\n\n\nPURPOSE OF THE GROUP: \n====================\n\nThe Taize Community is an international ecumenical community of monks \nbased in France. Many young adults come there to search for meaning in \ntheir life and to deepen their understanding of their faith through a \nsharing with others. This newsgroup will allow such a sharing through a \nmonthly "Johannine Hour" which will be posted at the beginning of each \nmonth. A "Johannine hour" involves a short commentary on a given Bible \npassage, followed by some questions for reflection. Any thoughts that \nmay arise in consequence and that you wish to share with others can be \nposted here. We are not interested in theological debate, and even less \nin polemics. No expertise is required! The idea is to help one another \nto deepen our understanding of Scripture as it is related to our own \nlife-journey.\n\nThe idea of "Johannine hours" was born in Taize as a simple response\nto all those who were trying to assimilate the Bible\'s message in the\nmidst of their daily life. Because of work or studies, it is often\nimpossible to spend long hours in silence and reflection, but\neveryone can take an hour from time to time to enter a church, sit\nquietly at home or go out for a walk in the woods. There, in silence,\nwe can meditate on a passage of Scripture to listen to the voice of\nChrist.\n\nDuring the time of silence, it is important to concentrate on what we \nunderstand and not waste time worrying if, in some Biblical expressions, \nwe find it difficult to hear the voice of Christ. The idea is to \ncommunicate to others what we have understood of Christ, not burdening \nthem with our own hesitations but rather telling them what has brought \nus joy, what has led us to run the risk of trusting more deeply.\n\nPerhaps those who read and think about the "Johannine Hours" in this\nnewsgroup could share their reflections and discoveries with others.\n\nThe important thing is the complementarity between two aspects, the\npersonal aspect of silent, personal reflection and the communal aspect\nof sharing, which through Usenet makes us a part of a worldwide network.\n\nBACKGROUND OF THE TAIZE COMMUNITY:\n=================================\n\nThe following provides some background information on the life and\nvocation of the Taize (pronounced te-zay) community.\n\n"A PARABLE OF COMMUNION": August 1940, with Europe in the grip of\nWorld War II, Brother Roger, aged 25, set up home in the almost\nabandoned village of Taize, in Eastern France. His dream: to bring\ntogether a monastic community which would live out "a parable of\ncommunity", a sign of reconciliation in the midst of the distress of\nthe time. Centering his life on prayer, he used his house to conceal\nrefugees, especially Jews fleeing from the Nazi occupation.\n\nAN INTERNATIONAL AND ECUMENICAL COMMUNITY: Taize\'s founder spent the\nfirst two years alone. Others joined him later and at Easter 1949,\nseven brothers committed themselves together to common life and\ncelibacy. Year by year, still others have entered the community, each\none making a lifelong commitment after several years of preparation.\nToday, there are 90 brothers, Catholics and from various Protestant\nbackgrounds, from over twenty different countries. Some of them are\nliving in small groups in poor neighbourhoods in Asia, Africa, North\nand South America. The brothers accept no donations or gifts for\nthemselves, not even family inheritances, and the community holds no\ncapital. The brothers earn their living and share with others\nentirely through their own work. In 1966, Sisters of Saint Andrew, an\ninternational Catholic community founded 750 years ago, came to live\nin the neighbouring village, to share the responsibility of welcoming\npeople in Taize.\n\nTAIZE AND THE YOUNG; THE INTERCONTINENTAL MEETINGS: Young adults, and\nless young, have been coming to Taize in ever greater numbers since\n1957. Hundreds of thousands of people from Europe and far beyond have\nthus been brought together in a common search. Intercontinental\nmeetings take place each week, Sunday to Sunday, throughout the year\nand they include youth from between 35 and 60 countries during any\none week. The meetings give each person the opportunity to explore\nthe roots of their faith and to reflect on how to unite the inner\nlife and human solidarity. The meetings in summer can have up to\n6,000 participants a week. Three times every day, the brothers and\neverybody on the hill come together for common prayer in the Church\nof Reconciliation, built in 1962 when the village church became too\nsmall.\n\n"A PILGRIMAGE OF TRUST ON EARTH" The community has never wanted to\ncreate a "movement" around itself. Instead, people are called to\ncommit themselves in their church at home, in their neighbourhood,\ntheir city or village. To support them in this, Taize has created\nwhat it calls "a pilgrimage of trust on earth". At the end of each\nyear, the pilgrimage has a "European meeting" which brings together\ntens of thousands of young adults from every part of Europe for\nseveral days in a major city. There have also been meetings in Asia\nand in the United States. Every year, Brother Roger writes an open\nletter to the young. Usually completed during a stay in one of the\npoor regions of the world, these are translated into thirty languages\nand provide themes for reflexion for the following year.\n\nNOTE: Discussion on the creation of this newsgroup will take place in \n news.groups.\n\nFor any further information contact: Brother.Roy@almac.co.uk\n\n brother.roy@almac.co.uk\n-- \n . 1st 1.10b #332 . Taize-Community, 71250 TAIZE, France\n',
'From: mangoe@cs.umd.edu (Charley Wingate)\nSubject: Re: A Little Too Satanic\nLines: 26\n\nJon Livesey writes:\n\n>So when they took the time to *copy* *the* *text* correctly, that includes\n>"obvious corruptions?"\n\nWell, yes. This is the real mystery of the matter, and why I am rather\ndubious of a lot of the source theories.\n\nThere are a number of places where the Masoretic Text (MT) of the OT is\nobscure and presumably corrupted. These are reproduced exactly from copy to\ncopy. The DSS tend to reflect the same "errors". This would appear to tell\nus that, at least from some point, people began to copy the texts very\nexactingly and mechanically. The problem is, we don\'t know what they did\nbefore that. But it seems as though accurate transmission begins at the\npoint at which the texts are perceived as texts. They may be added to (and\nin some situations, such as the end of Mark, material is lost), but for the\nmost part there are no substantial changes to the existing text.\n\nYou\'re basically trying to make a mountain out of a molehill. Some people\nlike to use the game of "telephone" as a metaphor for the transmission of\nthe texts. This clearly wrong. The texts are transmitted accurately.\n-- \nC. Wingate + "The peace of God, it is no peace,\n + but strife closed in the sod.\nmangoe@cs.umd.edu + Yet, brothers, pray for but one thing:\ntove!mangoe + the marv\'lous peace of God."\n',
'From: mathew <mathew@mantis.co.uk>\nSubject: Re: Are atoms real? (was Re: After 2000 years blah blah blah)\nOrganization: Mantis Consultants, Cambridge. UK.\nX-Newsreader: rusnews v1.02\nLines: 30\n\nkempmp@phoenix.oulu.fi (Petri Pihko) writes:\n>mathew (mathew@mantis.co.uk) wrote:\n>> What is the difference between a "_chemist_" and someone who is taught\n>> Chemistry at, say, Cambridge University?\n> \n> Put like this, I can\'t answer. I was originally pointing out that your\n> attitude _seemed to be_ (I don\'t know if it really was) that chemists\n> tend to ignore all kinds of effects;\n\nWhen they\'re not important, yes. All scientists do. Otherwise science would\nnever get anywhere.\n\n> your original posting stated that\n> when doing chemistry, it is common to ignore atomic interactions,\n\nHang about -- not atomic interactions in general. Just specific ones which\nare deemed unimportant. Like gravitational interactions between ions, which\nare so small they\'re drowned out by electrostatic effects, and so on.\n\n>> Has there been some revolution in teaching methods in the last four years?\n> \n> Perhaps this revolution has yet to reach Cambridge (my, now I\'ll get\n> flamed for sure;-) ).\n\nOh, probably. They still make people memorize equations and IR spectra. \nMaybe in a few decades they\'ll discover the revolutionary "data book"\ntechnique.\n\n\nBitter and twisted, mathew\n',
'From: I3150101@dbstu1.rz.tu-bs.de (Benedikt Rosenau)\nSubject: Re: It\'s all Mary\'s fault!\nOrganization: Technical University Braunschweig, Germany\nLines: 67\n\nIn article <w_briggs-250493154912@ccresources6h59.cc.utas.edu.au>\nw_briggs@postoffice.utas.edu.au (William Briggs) writes:\n \n(Deletion)\n>> Lucky for them that the baby didn\'t have any obvious deformities! I could\n>> just see it now: Mary gets pregnant out of wedlock so to save face she and\n>> Joseph say that it was God that got her pregnant and then the baby turns\n>> out to be deformed, or even worse, stillborn! They\'d have a lot of\n>> explaining to do.... :-)\n>\n>A few points guys, (oops guy and gal but I use the term guy asexually):\n>\n>- Has the same sort of conspiracy ever occurred since, (I mean there must\n>have been dozen of times in the past two thousand years when it would have\n>been opportune time for a \'messiah\' to be born.\n>\n \nIt has. There is a guy running around in Switzerland who claims to have\nbeen conceived similarly. His mother says the same. His father is said to\nbe a bit surprised.\n \nBut anyway, there have been a lot of Messiahs, and many have had a similar\nstory about their birth. Or their death. A list of Messiahs could be quite\ninteresting.\n \n \n>- Wouldn\'t you feel bad if you turned out to be wrong and the conception of\n>Christ was via God? I can just imagine your faces as Mary asks you if\n>you\'ve ever had a child yourself.\n>\n \nI would wonder why an omnipotent god pulls such stunts instead of providing\nevidence for everyone to check. And the whole question is absurd.\n \nWouldn\'t you feel bad if you\'d find out that stones are sentient, and that\nyou have stepped on them all your life? And wouldn\'t you feel bad when you\'d\nsee the proof that Jesus was just a plot of Satan?\n \n \n>- If they wanted to save image they could have done what Joseph planned to\n>do in the first place - have a quite wedding and an equally quite divorce,\n>(I think it was quite easy to do under Jewish law). In that regard they\n>would have been pretty DUMB to think up a conspiracy like the one you\'ve\n>outlined in that they a bringing attention on themselves. (Messiah\n>appearances were like Royal Scandals in zero AD Israel, (see the part in\n>Acts when the Sandhedrin are discussing what to do about the growth of the\n>new Church, (i.e. one wise guy said - leave it alone and if it is what it\n>says it is nothing can stop it and if it isn\'t then it will just fizzle out\n>anyway)).\n>\n \nYou\'ve forgotten the pride factor.\n \n \n>- It didn\'t fizzle, (the Church I mean).\n>\n \nThe argument is a fallacy. It is like "thanks for reading this far" on the end\nof a letter. Most religions claim that they won\'t fizzle because they contain\nsome eternal truth. So does Christianity. Since there are old religions it is\nno wonder to find old religions that have it that they would last.\n \nRoll twelve dice. Calculate the chance for the result. Argue that there must\nbe something special about the result because an event with a chance of\n1/(6**12) could hardly happen by chance only. Feel elevated because you have\nparticipated in letting that special event take place.\n Benedikt\n',
'From: mangoe@cs.umd.edu (Charley Wingate)\nSubject: Re: A Little Too Satanic\nLines: 34\n\nKent Sandvik and Jon Livesey made essentially the same response, so this\ntime Kent\'s article gets the reply:\n\n>I agree, but this started at one particular point in time, and we \n>don\'t know when this starting point of \'accurately copied scriptures\'\n>actually happened. \n\nThis begs the question of whether it ever "started"-- perhaps because\naccuracy was always an intention.\n\n>Even worse, if the events in NT were not written by eye witness accounts (a\n>high probability looking at possible dates when the first Gospels were\n>ready) then we have to take into account all the problems with information\n>forwarded with the \'telephone metaphor\', indeed.\n\nIt makes little difference if you have eyewitnesses or people one step away\n(reporters, if you will). As I said earlier, the "telephone" metaphor is\ninnately bad, because the purpose of a game of telephone is contrary to the\naims of writing these sorts of texts. (Also, I would point out that, by the\nstandards generally asserted in this group, the distinction between\neyewitnesses and others is hollow, since nobody can be shown to be an\neyewitness, or indeed, even shown to be the author of the text.)\n\nThere is no evidence that the "original" texts of either the OT or the NT\nare largely lost over time in a sea of errors, "corrections", additions and\ndeletions. In the case of the NT, the evidence is strongly in the other\ndirection: the Textus R. and the Nestle-Aland text do not differ on more\nthan a low level of significance. It is reasonable to assume a similar\nsituation for the OT, based on the NT as a model.\n-- \nC. Wingate + "The peace of God, it is no peace,\n + but strife closed in the sod.\nmangoe@cs.umd.edu + Yet, brothers, pray for but one thing:\ntove!mangoe + the marv\'lous peace of God."\n',
'From: revdak@netcom.com (D. Andrew Kille)\nSubject: Re: God, morality, and massacres\nOrganization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)\nLines: 12\n\nWithout quoting at length from the preceeding post, I\'d just like\nto say that I find it a much more appropriate way of dealing with\nissues like the Holocaust and Bosnia that asserting that "God is\npunishing them."\n\nThe activity of God is always _redemptive_, which means "restoring\nwhat has been lost, broken, or distorted." So, God does not _will_\nthe brokenness, lostness, distortion, genocide, poverty, etc, but\nis nonetheless capable, willing, and active to restore, heal, mend,\nand redeeem.\n\nrevdak@netcom.com\n',
"From: KPH@ECL.PSU.EDU (Kyle P Hunter)\nSubject: \x10A PROBLEM WITH OMNIPOTENCE\nOrganization: Penn State Engineering Computer Lab\nLines: 36\nDistribution: usa\nNNTP-Posting-Host: ecld.psu.edu\nSummary: A PROB W/ OMNIPOTENCE\nKeywords: GOD,JESUS\nX-News-Reader: VMS NEWS 1.24\n\nI recall a discussion I had heard years ago. It went something like this: \nThe problem with omnipotence (at least as I perceive it) as personified by \nthe christian God ideal is that it is potentially contradictory. If a \nmanifestation such as God is truly infinite in power can God place limits \nupon itself?\n.\n.\nSome stuff I can't recall.\nThen some other questions I think I recall correctly:\nCan God unmake itself?\nCan God make itself (assuming it doesn't yet exist)?\nHas God has always existed or is it necessary for an observer to bind all of\nGods potential quantum states into reality?\nWas God nothing more than a primordial force of nature that existed during\nthe earliest stages of universal (inflationary?) creation?\nIs God a vacuum fluctuation?\nGiven a great enough energy density could we re-create God?\nWould that make US God and God something else?\n.\n.\nSome more stuff I don't recall concerning creating God. Followed by:\nIs God self-aware?\nIs it necessary that God be self-aware?\nIs God a living entity?\nIs it necessay that God be a living entity?\nIs God unchanging or does it evolve?\n.\n.\nAny comments? Post them so that others might benefit from the open inquiry\nand resulting discussion.\n\nKyle\n\n\n\n \n",
"From: whitsebd@nextwork.rose-hulman.edu (Bryan Whitsell)\nSubject: Re: Homosexuality issues in Christiani\nReply-To: whitsebd@nextwork.rose-hulman.edu\nOrganization: News Service at Rose-Hulman\nLines: 13\n\nIn article <May.9.05.41.18.1993.27552@athos.rutgers.edu> todd@nickel.laurentian.ca \nwrites:\n> The question is how do they interpret these verses. We\n> must now establish reasons for not believing this to be true based on the\n> interpretation of these scriptures given by someone who has come to grips with\n> them.\n\nI see no other way of interpreting them other than homosexuyality\nbeing wrong. Please tell me how these verses can be interpreted in\nany other way. I read them and the surrounding text.\n\nIn Christ's Love,\nBryan\n",
'From: "Robert Knowles" <p00261@psilink.com>\nSubject: Re: Death Penalty (was Re: Political Athei\nIn-Reply-To: <930420.104819.5W1.rusnews.w165w@mantis.co.uk>\nNntp-Posting-Host: 127.0.0.1\nOrganization: Performance Systems Int\'l\nX-Mailer: PSILink-DOS (3.3)\nLines: 17\n\n>DATE: Tue, 20 Apr 1993 10:48:19 +0100\n>FROM: mathew <mathew@mantis.co.uk>\n>\n>\n>There\'s a great film called "Manufacturing Consent: Noam Chomsky and the\n>Media". It\'s a Canadian film; I saw it at the Berlin Film Festival this\n>year. If you get a chance, go and see it.\n>\n>I can\'t really recommend any books from having read them... I\'m thinking of\n>ordering a book which a reviewer claimed gives a good introduction to his\n>political activism. I could dig up the title.\n>\n>mathew\n\nCould it be _The Chomsky Reader_ edited by James Peck, published by Pantheon?\n\n\n',
'From: rboykin@cscsparc.larc.nasa.gov (Rick Boykin)\nSubject: Lookin Form 3-D model of Loom\nOrganization: NASA Langley Research Center, Hampton, VA USA\nLines: 25\nDistribution: world\nNNTP-Posting-Host: cscsparc.larc.nasa.gov\nKeywords: 3-D Loom Model\n\n Hi folks,\n\nI\'m doing an animated film on new methodes in loom\nresearch (You know, the thing they make cloth with.)\nand need a model of a loom. The format should be \nin ascii faceted geometry and fairly straight\nforward to figure out. Any help or pointers would be\ngreatly appreciated.\n\n-Thanks\n\nRick Boykin\n\n~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~\n Rick Boykin (rboykin@cscsparc.larc.nasa.gov)\n Computer Sciences Corporation, Hampton, VA.\n\n "So maybe I could be a fly\n and feed arachnid as I die" -Tom Marshall\n\n~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~\n\n\n\n\n',
'From: kseethar@cs.ulowell.edu (Krishnan Seetharaman)\nSubject: Looking for Info on Quadratic Spline to Bezier Conversion ...\nOrganization: UMass-Lowell Computer Science\nLines: 15\n\nHi\n\nI am looking for an algorithm or pointers to any papers on how to convert\nQuadratic Splines to Cubic Splines or Beizeirs. If source is available\nin the public domain, please let me know.\n\nThanks very much\n\n-ks\n\n-- \nKrishnan Seetharaman\t\nE-mail : kseethar@cs.ulowell.edu\t Phone : 508-934-3628 (W)\nSnail-mail : Department of Computer Science, UMass/Lowell, Lowell, MA 01854\n\n',
'From: jrmo@volta.att.com\nSubject: Re: What WAS the immaculate conception\nOrganization: AT&T\nLines: 40\n\nIn article <May.14.02.11.19.1993.25177@athos.rutgers.edu> seanna@bnr.ca (Seanna (S.M.) Watson) writes:\n>In article <May.9.05.39.52.1993.27456@athos.rutgers.edu> jhpb@sarto.budd-lake.nj.us (Joseph H. Buehler) writes:\n>[referring to Mary]\n>>She was immaculately conceived, and so never subject to Original Sin,\n>>but also never committed a personal sin in her whole life. This was\n>>possible because of the special degree of grace granted to her by God.\n>\n>I have quite a problem with the idea that Mary never committed a sin.\n>Was Mary fully human? If it is possible for God to miraculously make \n>a person free of original sin, and free of committing sin their whole\n>life, then what is the purpose of the Incarnation of Jesus? Why can\'t\n>God just repeat the miracle done for Mary to make all the rest of us\n>sinless, without the need for repentance and salvation and all that?\n>\n>concept of Mary\'s sinlessness seems to me to be at odds with the\n>rest of Christian doctrine as I understand it.\n\nIt\'s always a two-way street. God gave her the grace to avoid sin,\nthus when she was visited by Gabriel, she gave her fiat, her total\nacceptance of God\'s will. This fiat summarizes why Catholics regard \nher as the highest of all humans, that God chose her and that she\naccepted. Knowing this in advance, we extrapolate that she was\nneither stained by nor subject to original sin.\n\nGod did create us all miraculously free to choose or not choose to sin.\n"Sufficient for the day is the evil thereof and the grace of God to\ncommand it." This amount of grace was precisely determined by God\nto be the amount required to do what God asked of her. The grace\ngiven to each of us is also enough, but we do not always choose\nto accept it. We also believe Jesus was fully human and never\nsinned. \n\nGod could have created a much better person than myself, one who\nalways chose the right thing, yet he created me instead, despite\nmy flaws. He proves he loves me as I am, continually drawing me\ntowards perfection. For whatever purpose he has for me, he has\nconfidence that I will accomplish it. If I ask God to repeat his\nmiraculous creation of the mother of his son, where will that leave me?\n\nJoe Moore\n',
'From: hall@vice.ico.tek.com (Hal F Lillywhite)\nSubject: Eternal Marriage (was Mormon Temples)\nOrganization: Tektronix Inc., Beaverton, Or.\nLines: 65\n\nIn article <May.11.02.39.09.1993.28334@athos.rutgers.edu> dhammers@pacific.? (David Hammerslag) writes:\n\n>This paragraph brought to mind a question. How do you (Mormons) reconcile\n>the idea of eternal marriage with Christ\'s statement that in the ressurection\n>people will neither marry nor be given in marriage (Luke, chapt. 20)?\n\nWell, here is something I wrote some time ago in response to a\nsimilar question. I hope it helps:\n\n[Begin repeat of previous post]\n\nAs for the scripture mentioned I agree that it does seem to be a \nproblem, not only for eternal marriage but marriage in general. \nLuke\'s version has Jesus saying that the children of this world \nmarry and are given in marriage but not those who will attain\nthe kingdom of heaven. It almost sounds like marriage disqualifies\none for salvation. (Matthew and Mark both omit this statement.) I\nthink the accounts are not as clear as they might be. Let\'s have a\nlook at the incident and see if we can come up with some reasonable\nideas of what it means. The scriptures involved are Mat 22:23-30,\nMark 12:18-25, and Luke 20:27-36.\n\nWhat happened was that the Sadducees, who did not believe in the\nresurrection, thought they could trap Jesus. They made reference to\nthe "Leverite" marriage which required the brother of a man who died\nwithout children to take the widow to wife and raise up children. \nThe children would be considered children of the deceased, just as\nthough the woman\'s first husband had fathered them. It seems\nobvious from this that the woman was still considered in a way to be\nthe wife of her first husband. However, the Sadducees concocted a\nscene in which 6 brothers of the deceased each in his turn failed to\nfather children by the widow. They seem to imply that the Leverite\nmarriage was equal to the first for they ask, "Whose wife shall she\nbe in the resurrection?" At this point it seems obvious that if she\nis anybody\'s wife, it is the first husband. After all, had she\nborne children they would have been credited to him regardless of\nwhich brother was the biological father. It is possible Jesus was\nrefering to this when he says, "Ye do err, not knowing the\nscriptures or the power of God." (Mat 22:29, compare Mark 12:24,\nphrase not in Luke\'s account).\n\nAnyway, the Sadducees ask, "Whose wife will she be in the\nresurrection, seeing that all 7 had her?" Jesus answer is that,\n"In the resurrection they neither marry nor are given in\nmarriage..." (Mat 22:30) "When they rise from the dead they neither\nmarry..." (Mark 12:25) "They which are accounted worthy to obtain\nthat world neither marry..." (Luke 20:35) All 3 accounts go on to\nsay, "but are as the angels in heaven" or the equivalent. I find\nthis last not very helpful since the Bible does not define angels\nnor give any idea what their life is like. (Some ministers claim\nthat they are sexless, different that humans etc. but I can find no\nBiblical support for this.)\n\nI think what Jesus is saying here (and it is clearest in Matthew\'s\nand Mark\'s accounts) is that marriages will not be performed in the\nresurrection. This goes along with our belief that if a person is\nto marry at all it must be done on this earth. However, we do\nbelieve that a marriage performed by the authority of God can be\nbinding in eternity. In fact, the first marriage appears to have\nbeen performed by God himself before death entered the world (in the\nGarden of Eden). What therefore God hath joined together, let not\nman put asunder. (Mat 19:6) Jesus also told Peter and the other\napostles that whatsoever they should bind on earth should be bound\nin heaven (Mat 16:19, 18:18). I believe that this also refers to\nmarriages performed by the proper authority.\n',
'From: Eugene.Bigelow@ebay.sun.com (Geno )\nSubject: Re: God, morality, and massacres\nReply-To: Eugene.Bigelow@ebay.sun.com\nOrganization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.\nLines: 44\n\n\n JEK@cu.nih.gov () James Kiefer writes:\n\n (stuff deleted)\n\n [First point. What they are doing is wrong, just as what\nJoseph\'s brothers did was wrong, just as what Judas did was wrong.\nThey intend it for evil. If God somehow brings good out of it, that\ndoes not make them any less subject to just condemnation and\npunishment.\n Second point. Of course, God will bring good out of it. But not\nthe same good that He would have brought if the Serbians had\nrefrained from the sins of robbery and rape and murder. Nor does the\ngood He purposes excuse us from the duty of doing what is right.]\n\n\nSo what you\'re saying then, is that God exercises direct control, or\ninfluence upon humanity. He doesn\'t control our every thought or action,\nbut takes what we do, whether it be intended for evil or not, and turns\nit into something good. It seems to me, that this idea conflicts with\nthe belief that God gave humans FREE WILL. As far as I can determine,\nit is impossible to reconcile these two different ideas. If God were to\nexert his influence upon anyone or anything at anytime, he would be \nimpeding upon someone\'s free will. Unless, of course, you believe that\nGod did not give us complete and unabated free will, but rather, some sort\nof conditional free will. Something that allows us to make our own choices\nand control our own lives except when God wants to use us to fulfill some\ngood purpose of his own by "hardening our heart" or controlling us in some\nother way. I hear alot of people who look at various events, mostly \ncatastrophies or things like the AIDS epidemic and make comments about\nGod\'s will. I have a very difficult time understanding why people believe\nthat God controls anything that happens on this planet. Except, possibly\nwhen being asked to through someone\'s prayer. According to the Bible,\nPharoah was going to let Moses\' people go after one or two plagues, but\nGod kept hardening his heart so Moses could cast all 7 plagues upon the\nEgyptians, the last plague causing the death of many innocent children.\nSo then, God impeded upon Pharoah\'s free will and used him as a puppet.\nGod did this not just to free the Hebrews, but to free them in some sort\nof a grand fashion. I suppose from the Hebrew\'s point of view, this could\nbe seen as turning something bad into good, but I\'m sure the Egyptians didn\'t\nsee it this way. All of your examples of how God turned something bad into\nsomething good are based upon showing favortism to one group of people over\nanother. After all, it\'s only good based upon your point of view. Why does\nGod, who is supposed to be the god of all of humanity, play favorites? \n',
'From: qpliu@ernie.Princeton.EDU (q.p.liu)\nSubject: Re: Christian Morality is\nReply-To: qpliu@princeton.edu\nOrganization: Princeton University\nLines: 14\nOriginator: news@nimaster\nNntp-Posting-Host: ernie.princeton.edu\n\nIn article <4949@eastman.UUCP> dps@nasa.kodak.com writes:\n>Simple logic arguments are folly. If you read the Bible you will see\n>that Jesus made fools of those who tried to trick him with "logic".\n\nWhy don\'t you cite the passages so that we can focus on some to discuss.\nThen, following Jesus, you can make fools of us and our "logic".\n\n> If you rely simply on your reason then you will never\n>know more than you do now.\n\nIndeed, if you can justifiably make this assertion, you must be a\ngenius in logic and making fools of us should be that much easier.\n-- \nqpliu@princeton.edu Standard opinion: Opinions are delta-correlated.\n',
'From: baer@qiclab.scn.rain.com (Ken Baer)\nSubject: Re: WANTED: Playmation Info\nArticle-I.D.: qiclab.1993Apr26.173254.12871\nOrganization: SCN Research/Qic Laboratories of Tigard, Oregon.\nLines: 19\n\nIn article <1993Apr22.205418.27411@osf.org> omar@godzilla.osf.org (Mark Marino) writes:\n>Hi Folks,\n>\n> Does anyone have a copy of Playmation they\'d be willing to sell me. I\'d \n>love to try it out, but not for the retail $$$.\n\nPlaymation is available direct from Anjon & Associates for $299. It\'s hard\nto beat that price. Also, you\'d be better off with a newer version than\nan older version that had bugs that have long since been clobbered. \n\n>\n> Thanks in advance,\n>| Mark Marino | omar@osf.org | uunet!osf!omar |\n\n\n-- \n \\_ -Ken Baer. Programmer/Animator, Hash Enterprises\n<[_] Usenet: baer@qiclab.UUCP / AppleLink: KENBAER / Office: (206)573-9427\n =# \\, "We\'re not hitchhiking anymore, we\'re RIDING!" - Ren Hoak. \n',
'From: JEK@cu.nih.gov\nSubject: the Imprecatory Psalms\nLines: 10\n\nPaul Fortmann submitted a sermon by Peter Hammond on PRAYING FOR\nJUSTICE that spoke of the positive value of the Imprecatory\n(Cursing) Psalms.\n\nIn this connection, I recommend to the membership the book\nREFLECTIONS ON THE PSALMS, by C S Lewis, with special reference to\nthe chapter on "Cursing in the Psalms."\n\n Yours,\n James Kiefer\n',
"From: jk87377@lehtori.cc.tut.fi (Kouhia Juhana)\nSubject: Re: XV problems\nOrganization: Tampere University of Technology\nLines: 100\nDistribution: world\nNNTP-Posting-Host: cc.tut.fi\n\nIn article <1993Apr29.201420.19271@nessie.mcc.ac.uk>\nC.C.Lilley@mcc.ac.uk writes:\n>\n>In article <1rohjc$avt@cc.tut.fi>, jk87377@lehtori.cc.tut.fi (Kouhia\n>Juhana) writes:\n>\n>>I wrote something about making color modifications quickly\n>>with 8bit quantized images and only at the saving the image to file\n>>process we have to make the modifications to the 24bit image.\n>>This makes sense, because the main use of XV is only viewing images.\n>>\n>>Doing many changes to image, we should keep all modifications\n>>in a buffer; and then before making the operations to 24bit image,\n>>we should simplify the operation list for unnecessary operations.\n>>\n>Think about what you are saying here. The 24 bit image is quantised down to 8\n>bits so many 'similar' colours are mapped onto a single palette colour. This\n>colour gets modified in fairly arbitrary ways. You then want to apply these\n>modifications back to the 24 bit file, so you have to find which\n>colours mapped to this one palette colour.\n\nI suppose you don't know what about we have discussed.\nWe discussed about error(s) in XV 2.21 which shows images only as 8bit,\nand my suggestion above works perfectly with it.\n\nSo far I have seen a colormap editing window in XV -- that is, there\nmust be a colormap anyway. The problems you present are exist anyway,\nand I didn't tried to solve them at all, because I would not make such\nproblems to my programs in the first place.\n\nGamma and color corrections are easily done to 24bit image\nas I presented. There's no need make tricks from 8bit/quantized image\nback to 24 bit image.\n\n\n>>>How would you suggest doing colour editing on a 24 bit file? How\n>>>would you group 'related' colours to edit them together? Only global\n>>>changes could be done unless the software were very different and\n>>>much more complicated.\n\nOk, you're writing about situation that user want edit images as 24bit\nand user want edit individual colors -- your questions, by the way,\njumps off the discussion a bit.\n\nMy solution doesn't work, because there's no colormap withing real 24bit\nimage -- you see, user see 24bit image; going back to 8bit is silly.\n\n\nAbout changing individual colors in 8bit/quantized/rasterized image:\nchanging individual colors in colormap is useless in most\ncases if the image is quantized and rasterized -- small change may\nmake serious errors to anywhere in the image.\nXV allows this feature, but I don't recommend to use it with the\nmentioned type images.\n\nMoreover, XV is not a paint program; you can only make those global\nchanges. In full 24bit XV, changing individual colors sounds like\npaint program job.\nIf person have 8bit screen, there's need for tricks to get the\noriginal 24bit image modified. Because user don't see full 24bit\nimage, there's need to make approximations and it is not possible to\nmodify individual colors but individual pixels or pixel groups (if\nimage is rasterized). To select indiavidual color, there could be 7x7\ncursor window which shows true color image in cursor window area --\nselecting individual color is possible from that.\n\nOk, I don't have thought very much 24bit painting programs, never seen\nsuch in good view and are not planned to make such. Not to mention\n24bit painting program in 8bit screen...\n\n\n>Yes again. What *is* (was?) wrong with xv?\n\nIt saved 8bit/quantized/rasterized images as 24bit jpegs; jpeg is not\ndesigned for that.\nAlso, human expect that 24bit will be saved as 24bit image; say,\nperson would like to crop part of the image and save it, then it is\nexpected that the image still is the same. So, XV were designed\nwithout thinking about human interface and how human expect the\nprogram work -- design error.\n\nI have heard XV were designed first for 8bit images/files, but\nit were not good idea to take full 24bit images without making\nmajor change to the original design.\n\nSo, even all screen images are 8bit, the processed images and saved\nimages could have been 24bit very easily, instead of 8bit.\n\nBefore anybody will make a note: yes, I may as well make a lift where\n'up' means that the lift goes down and 'down' means that the lift goes\nup, and put a note on this design solution to the manuals -- however,\neven the manuals tells the correct situation, it doesn't solve the problem.\n(Americans: the lift is just an example :)\n\n\nWell, my text may be a bit hard reading, hopefully you suggeeded to\nread it.\n\n\nJuhana Kouhia\n",
'From: creps@lateran.ucs.indiana.edu (Stephen A. Creps)\nSubject: Re: What WAS the immaculate conception\nOrganization: Indiana University\nLines: 28\n\nIn article <May.14.02.11.19.1993.25177@athos.rutgers.edu> seanna@bnr.ca (Seanna (S.M.) Watson) wrote:\n>I have quite a problem with the idea that Mary never committed a sin.\n>Was Mary fully human? If it is possible for God to miraculously make \n>a person free of original sin, and free of committing sin their whole\n>life, then what is the purpose of the Incarnation of Jesus? Why can\'t\n>God just repeat the miracle done for Mary to make all the rest of us\n>sinless, without the need for repentance and salvation and all that?\n\n Yes, Mary is fully human. However, that does not imply that she was\njust as subject to sin as we are. Catholic doctrine says that man\'s\nnature is good (Gen 1:31), but is damaged by Original Sin (Rom 5:12-16).\nIn that case, being undamaged by Original Sin, Mary is more fully human\nthan any of the rest of us.\n\n You ask why God cannot "repeat the miracle" of Mary\'s preservation\nfrom Original Sin. A better way to phrase it would be "why _did_ He\nnot" do it that way, but you misunderstand how Mary\'s salvation was\nobtained. Like ours, the Blessed Virgin Mary\'s salvation was obtained\nthrough the merits of the Sacrifice of Christ on the Cross. However, as\nGod is not bound by time, which is His creation, God is free to apply\nHis Sacrifice to anyone at any time, even if that person lived before\nChrist came to Earth, from our time-bound perspective. Therefore,\nChrist\'s Death and Resurrection still served a necessary purpose, and\nwere necessary even for Mary\'s salvation.\n\n-\t-\t-\t-\t-\t-\t-\t-\t-\t-\nSteve Creps, Indiana University\ncreps@lateran.ucs.indiana.edu\n',
"From: cfaks@ux1.cts.eiu.edu (Alice Sanders)\nSubject: Re: Kidney Stones\nOrganization: Eastern Illinois University\nLines: 32\n\nA student told me today that she has been diagnosed with kidney stones, a\ncyst on one kidney, and a kidney infection. She was upset because her\ncondition had been misdiagnosed since last fall, and she has been ill all\nthis time. During her most recent doctor's appointment at her parents'\nHMO clinic, she said that about FORTY! x-rays were made of her kidney.\nWhen she asked why so many x-rays were being made, she was told by a\ntechnician that they need to see the area from different views, but she\nsays that about five x-rays were made from EACH angle. She couldn't help\nfeeling that something must be wrong with the procedure or something. She\nis a pre-med student and feels she could have understood what was\nhappening if someone would have explained. When nobody would, she got\nworried.\n\tAlso, she is told that thre are 300! surgery patients ahead of her\nand that they cannot do surgery until August or so. It is now April...\nShe is supposed to rest a lot and drink fluids. But she has to go to\nclasses. She wonders why they have given her no medicine. She plans to\ncall back her doctor's office / clinic and try to get answers to these\nquestions. But I told her I would also write in to sci.med and see what I\ncould find out about why there were so many x-rays and whether it seems\no.k. to wait in line 3 or more months for surgery for something like this\nor whether she should be looking elsewhere for her care. She does plan to\nget a second opinion, too. \n\n\tI will pass info on to her. It never hurts to get information\nfrom more than one source. \n\nYou can e-mail me or post.\n\nThanks.\n\nAlice\n\n",
"From: twain@carson.u.washington.edu (Barbara Hlavin)\nSubject: Re: HELP for Kidney Stones ..............\nOrganization: University of Washington, Seattle\nLines: 13\nNNTP-Posting-Host: carson.u.washington.edu\n\nIn article <C697IJ.IuA@srgenprp.sr.hp.com> jeffs@sr.hp.com (Jeff Silva) writes:\n>pk115050@wvnvms.wvnet.edu wrote:\n>move a little, the pain will be excrutiating. I was told by my doctor\n>at that time that the pain was comparable to that of childbirth. (Yes,\n>by a male doctor, so I'm sure some of you women will disagree). I'd\n>really like to know the truth in this, so maybe some of you women who\n>have had a baby and a kidney stone could fill me in. \n\nI've had neither a baby nor a kidney stone, but according to my aunt, \nwho has had plenty of both, a kidney stone is worse. \n\n\n--Barbara \n",
'From: dps@nasa.kodak.com (Dan Schaertel,,,)\nSubject: Re: Christian Morality is\nReply-To: dps@nasa.kodak.com\nOrganization: Eastman Kodak Company\nLines: 54\nNntp-Posting-Host: 129.126.121.55\n\nIn article 21627@ousrvr.oulu.fi, kempmp@phoenix.oulu.fi (Petri Pihko) writes:\n|>Dan Schaertel,,, (dps@nasa.kodak.com) wrote:\n|>\n|>\n|>I love god just as much as she loves me. If she wants to seduce me,\n|>she\'ll know what to do. \n|>\n\nBut if He/She did you would probably consider it rape. \n\n|>: Simple logic arguments are folly. If you read the Bible you will see\n|>: that Jesus made fools of those who tried to trick him with "logic".\n|>: Our ability to reason is just a spec of creation. Yet some think it is\n|>: the ultimate. If you rely simply on your reason then you will never\n|>: know more than you do now. \n|>\n|>Your argument is of the type "you\'ll know once you try".\n|>Yet there are many atheists who have sincerely tried, and believed\n|>for many years, but were eventually honest enough to admit that \n|>they had lived in a virtual reality.\n|>\n\nObviously there are many Christians who have tried and do believe. So .. ?\n\n|>: To learn you must accept that which you don\'t know.\n|>\n|>What does this mean? To learn you must accept that you don\'t know \n|>something, right-o. But to learn you must _accept_ something I don\'t\n|>know, why? This is not the way I prefer to learn. It is unwise to\n|>merely swallow everything you read. Suppose I write a book telling\n|>how the Great Invisible Pink Unicorn (tm) has helped me in my\n|>daily problems, would you accept this, since you can\'t know whether\n|>it is true or not?\n|>\n\nNo one asks you to swallow everything, in fact Jesus warns against it. But let\nme ask you a question. Do you beleive what you learn in history class, or for\nthat matter anything in school. I mean it\'s just what other people have told\nyou and you don\'t want to swallow what others say. right ... ?\n\nThe life , death, and resurection of Christ is documented historical fact. As much\nas anything else you learn. How do you choose what to believe and what not to?\nI could argue that George Washington is a myth. He never lived because I don\'t\nhave any proof except what I am told. However all the major events of the life\nof Jesus Christ were fortold hundreds of years before him. Neat trick uh?\n\nThere is no way to get into a sceptical heart. You can not say you have given a \nsincere effort with the attitude you seem to have. You must TRUST, not just go \nto church and participate in it\'s activities. Were you ever willing to die for what\nyou believed? \n\n\n\n\n',
'From: tedr@athena.cs.uga.edu (Ted Kalivoda)\nSubject: Re: MAJOR VIEWS OF THE TRINITY\nOrganization: University of Georgia - UCNS\nLines: 30\n\nIn article <May.14.02.12.04.1993.25393@athos.rutgers.edu>,\nswf@elsegundoca.ncr.com (Stan Friesen) wrote:\n> \n> Simply put, I do not see any way that a "Platonic essence" could have\n> any *real* existance. "Essence" in the Platonic sense does not have\n> any referent as far as I can tell - it is just an imaginary concept\n> invented to provide an explanation for things better explained in\n> other ways.\n\nYou are quite confident that essences do not exist. How do propose to\ndefine beings? Can a thing can be *one* without definition? Can a being\nhave a definition and know essence?\n\nWhat about properties? Do beings have properties? Does God have\nproperties?\n\nDoes numbers exist in reality as abstract entities or do we invent them?\n\n> Thus, to me, the unity of God must be primary, and the triality must be\n> secondary, must be modal or aspectual (relating to roles, or to modes\n> of interaction), since otherwise there is no meaning to saying God is one.\n\nSee my post in alt.messianic about the possibilities of tri-theism from a\nphiolosophical point of view.\n \n=====================\nTed Kalivoda (tedr@athena.cs.uga.edu)\nInstitute of Higher Education\nUniversity of Georgia\nAthens, GA\n',
'From: lars@cs.sun.ac.za (Lars Michael)\nSubject: jpeg fif specification\nReply-To: lars@itu.sun.ac.za\nOrganization: University of Stellenbosch, South Africa\nX-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]\nLines: 37\n\n\n\nI recently got a document describing the JPEG FIF (JFIF) file\nformat. I was looking thru it, but I didn\'t get the idea how\nto determine the size of a pic in pixel without decoding the\nwhole image.\n\nHow do you get the height and width of a JPEG in a JFIF?\n\nHow do you determine wether it is a color or a greyscale\npicture?\n\nI wrote a small tool (lsgif) for GIF that returns the\nfilesize, picture size and color resolution by analizing\nthe header chunks. The output looks like this:\n\n 157605 bla.gif 640x 480 248C24\n\nI use this lsgif to create index files of my archive and since\nJPEG are getting more and more popular I would like to have a\nsimilar tool for JFIF, with an output like this:\n\n 57605 bla.jpg 640x 480 C24\n\nPlease respond by email, because I don\'t read this news\ngroup very often. I\'ll post a summary if it is useful.\n\nThanx in advance,\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\tLarry\n\n+-------------------------------------+------------------------------+\n| Lars "Larry" Michael (Mr. GIF) | "If Murphy\'s Law |\n| lars@itu.sun.ac.za | can go wrong, it will." |\n| lsmichae@informatik.uni-erlangen.de +--------------+---------------+\n| Spec. Stud. at Univ. of Stellenbosch South Afrika | HAM: ZR/DB3BW |\n| Grad. Stud. at Univ. of Erlangen/Nuremberg Germany | IRC: Pit |\n+----------------------------------------------------+---------------+\n',
'From: marshall@csugrad.cs.vt.edu (Kevin Marshall)\nSubject: Church o\' Satan (was Re: islamic authority [sic] over women)\nOrganization: Virginia Tech Computer Science Dept, Blacksburg, VA\nLines: 52\nNNTP-Posting-Host: csugrad.cs.vt.edu\n\nDavid.Rice@ofa123.fidonet.org writes:\n \n>who: marshall@csugrad.cs.vt.edu (Kevin Marshall)\n>what: <1q7kc3$2dj@csugrad.cs.vt.edu>\n \n>KM> "Yeah, hilarious. Satanists believe Satan is a god, but not\n>KM> the only god. Satan is a part of Christian mythology.\n>KM> Therefore, one cannot reasonably worship Satan without\n>KM> acknowledging the existence of a Christian god. Satanists\n>KM> see Satan as their master, and they see God and Satan as \n>KM> adversaries of similar power. Satanists believe in the\n>KM> eventual overthrow of God and a transfer of all power to\n>KM> their master. Kevin Marshall"\n> \n>A great many Satanists DO NOT believe in Satan. Some do, some\n>don\'t. I\'d go so far as to assert that most "orthodox" Satanists\n>do not worship Satan (Church of Satan, etc.) but rather "worship"\n>self. To hear LaVey say it, only idiots and fools believe in Satan\n>and or Allah. He knew that suckers are born every minute.\n>\n>--- Maximus 2.01wb\n\nAnton LaVey\'s interpretation of Satanism has always puzzled me. I\nread his "Satanic Bible" a few years ago for a social studies project,\nas well as a book by Arthur Lyons called "The Cult of Devil Worship\nin America." The latter included a very interesting interview with\nthe Black Pope in which he did indeed say that Satan was merely an\ninstrument for one to realize the self. \n\nWhen I refer to Satanism, I am referring to the mishmash of rural Satanic\nritualism and witchcraft which existed before the Church of Satan. I\ndon\'t consider LaVey\'s church to be at all "orthodox," nor do I consider\nits followers "satanists." LaVey combined the philosophies of Nietzsche,\nCrowley, and Reich, slapped in some religious doctrine, added a little\ntouch of P.T. Barnum, and christened his creation the Church of Satan.\nNo doubt the title was a calculated attempt to attract attention...I\nsuppose he could have just as easily called it the Church of Free Sex.\n\nAt any rate, it worked (for a while). In its heyday, the Church had a\nhuge following, including such Hollywood celebrities as Sammy Davis, Jr.\nand Jayne Mansfield. (I have a picture of LaVey with Sammy, by the \nway.) \n\nI find the idea of a Satanist not believing in Satan about as credible as\na Christian not believing in Christ. But if you include the Church of\nSatan, then I suppose I need to alter my definition. Webster\'s Dictionary\nand The American Heritage Dictionary will have to do the same.\n-- \n--- __ _______ ---\n||| Kevin Marshall \\ \\/ /_ _/ Computer Science Department |||\n||| Virginia Tech \\ / / / marshall@csugrad.cs.vt.edu |||\n--- Blacksburg, Virginia \\/ /_/ (703) 232-6529 ---\n',
"Organization: Penn State University\nFrom: <RFM@psuvm.psu.edu>\nSubject: Sleep in hospitals (WAS Re: EUse of haldol in elderly\nLines: 14\n\nIn article <YfqmleK00iV185Co5L@andrew.cmu.edu>, you say:\n> I've seen people in their forties and fifties become disoriented and\n>demented during hospital stays. In the examples I've seen, drugs were\n>definitely involved.\n\n\n Speaking from experience, one doesn't need drugs to become disoriented\nduring hospital stays. I was in hosp for 5 days in late Jan; what with\ngeneral noise at all hours of night, staff coming every time I turned over,\nor whatever, to check me out, I didn't get much sustained sleep at night.\nSpent days groggy & dozing, and all it was from my perspective was that I\nwas TIRED!\n\n BobM - Let's *REINVENT* hospital organization!s\n",
'From: bcash@crchh410.NoSubdomain.NoDomain (Brian Cash)\nSubject: Re: Room for Metaphor?\nNntp-Posting-Host: crchh410\nOrganization: Bell Northern Research\nLines: 7\n\nI can (and do) take religious writings as a metaphor for life.\nI do this with all sorts of fiction, from Beowolf to Deep Space Nine.\nThe idea is to not limit yourself to one book, screen out the good \nstuff from what you read, and to remember that it is all just a story. \nYou sound Buddist to me :^)\n\nBrian /-|-\\\n',
'From: dmd2@Isis.MsState.Edu (David Dumas)\nSubject: Where can I find someone who can digitize Currier & Ives????\nOrganization: J. Random Misconfigured Site\nX-Posted-From: isis.msstate.edu\nNNTP-Posting-Host: sol.ctr.columbia.edu\nLines: 16\n\n\nDoes anyone know if any of Currier and Ives etchings have been digitized for \nuse in desktop publishing? I am particularly interested in their riverboat\nscenes. Does anyone know who can get me (for a fee) a good, digitized river-\nboat image?\n\nThank you,\n\nDavid Dumas\n--\nDavid Dumas\ndmd2@Isis.MsState.Edu\n\n--\nDavid Dumas\ndmd2@Isis.MsState.Edu\n',
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['From: sd345@city.ac.uk (Michael Collier)\nSubject: Converting images to HP LaserJet III?\nNntp-Posting-Host: hampton\nOrganization: The City University\nLines: 14\n\nDoes anyone know of a good way (standard PC application/PD utility) to\nconvert tif/img/tga files into LaserJet III format. We would also like to\ndo the same, converting to HPGL (HP plotter) files.\n\nPlease email any response.\n\nIs this the correct group?\n\nThanks in advance. Michael.\n-- \nMichael Collier (Programmer) The Computer Unit,\nEmail: M.P.Collier@uk.ac.city The City University,\nTel: 071 477-8000 x3769 London,\nFax: 071 477-8565 EC1V 0HB.\n', "From: ani@ms.uky.edu (Aniruddha B. Deglurkar)\nSubject: help: Splitting a trimming region along a mesh \nOrganization: University Of Kentucky, Dept. of Math Sciences\nLines: 28\n\n\n\n\tHi,\n\n\tI have a problem, I hope some of the 'gurus' can help me solve.\n\n\tBackground of the problem:\n\tI have a rectangular mesh in the uv domain, i.e the mesh is a \n\tmapping of a 3d Bezier patch into 2d. The area in this domain\n\twhich is inside a trimming loop had to be rendered. The trimming\n\tloop is a set of 2d Bezier curve segments.\n\tFor the sake of notation: the mesh is made up of cells.\n\n\tMy problem is this :\n\tThe trimming area has to be split up into individual smaller\n\tcells bounded by the trimming curve segments. If a cell\n\tis wholly inside the area...then it is output as a whole ,\n\telse it is trivially rejected. \n\n\tDoes any body know how thiss can be done, or is there any algo. \n\tsomewhere for doing this.\n\n\tAny help would be appreciated.\n\n\tThanks, \n\tAni.\n-- \nTo get irritated is human, to stay cool, divine.\n", "From: djohnson@cs.ucsd.edu (Darin Johnson)\nSubject: Re: harrassed at work, could use some prayers\nOrganization: =CSE Dept., U.C. San Diego\nLines: 63\n\n(Well, I'll email also, but this may apply to other people, so\nI'll post also.)\n\n>I've been working at this company for eight years in various\n>engineering jobs. I'm female. Yesterday I counted and realized that\n>on seven different occasions I've been sexually harrassed at this\n>company.\n\n>I dreaded coming back to work today. What if my boss comes in to ask\n>me some kind of question...\n\nYour boss should be the person bring these problems to. If he/she\ndoes not seem to take any action, keep going up higher and higher.\nSexual harrassment does not need to be tolerated, and it can be an\nenormous emotional support to discuss this with someone and know that\nthey are trying to do something about it. If you feel you can not\ndiscuss this with your boss, perhaps your company has a personnel\ndepartment that can work for you while preserving your privacy. Most\ncompanies will want to deal with this problem because constant anxiety\ndoes seriously affect how effectively employees do their jobs.\n\nIt is unclear from your letter if you have done this or not. It is\nnot inconceivable that management remains ignorant of employee\nproblems/strife even after eight years (it's a miracle if they do\nnotice). Perhaps your manager did not bring to the attention of\nhigher ups? If the company indeed does seem to want to ignore the\nentire problem, there may be a state agency willing to fight with\nyou. (check with a lawyer, a women's resource center, etc to find out)\n\nYou may also want to discuss this with your paster, priest, husband,\netc. That is, someone you know will not be judgemental and that is\nsupportive, comforting, etc. This will bring a lot of healing.\n\n>So I returned at 11:25, only to find that ever single\n>person had already left for lunch. They left at 11:15 or so. No one\n>could be bothered to call me at the other building, even though my\n>number was posted.\n\nThis happens to a lot of people. Honest. I believe it may seem\nto be due to gross insensitivity because of the feelings you are\ngoing through. People in offices tend to be more insensitive while\nworking than they normally are (maybe it's the hustle or stress or...)\nI've had this happen to me a lot, often because they didn't realize\nmy car was broken, etc. Then they will come back and wonder why I\ndidn't want to go (this would tend to make me stop being angry at\nbeing ignored and make me laugh). Once, we went off without our\nboss, who was paying for the lunch :-)\n\n>For this\n>reason I hope good Mr. Moderator allows me this latest indulgence.\n\nWell, if you can't turn to the computer for support, what would\nwe do? (signs of the computer age :-)\n\nIn closing, please don't let the hateful actions of a single person\nharm you. They are doing it because they are still the playground\nbully and enjoy seeing the hurt they cause. And you should not\naccept the opinions of an imbecile that you are worthless - much\nwiser people hold you in great esteem.\n-- \nDarin Johnson\ndjohnson@ucsd.edu\n - Luxury! In MY day, we had to make do with 5 bytes of swap...\n", 'From: s0612596@let.rug.nl (M.M. Zwart)\nSubject: catholic church poland\nOrganization: Faculteit der Letteren, Rijksuniversiteit Groningen, NL\nLines: 10\n\nHello,\n\nI\'m writing a paper on the role of the catholic church in Poland after 1989. \nCan anyone tell me more about this, or fill me in on recent books/articles(\nin english, german or french). Most important for me is the role of the \nchurch concerning the abortion-law, religious education at schools,\nbirth-control and the relation church-state(government). Thanx,\n\n Masja,\n"M.M.Zwart"<s0612596@let.rug.nl>\n', 'From: stanly@grok11.columbiasc.ncr.com (stanly)\nSubject: Re: Elder Brother\nOrganization: NCR Corp., Columbia SC\nLines: 15\n\nIn article <Apr.8.00.57.41.1993.28246@athos.rutgers.edu> REXLEX@fnal.gov writes:\n>In article <Apr.7.01.56.56.1993.22824@athos.rutgers.edu> shrum@hpfcso.fc.hp.com\n>Matt. 22:9-14 \'Go therefore to the main highways, and as many as you find\n>there, invite to the wedding feast.\'...\n\n>hmmmmmm. Sounds like your theology and Christ\'s are at odds. Which one am I \n>to believe?\n\nIn this parable, Jesus tells the parable of the wedding feast. "The kingdom\nof heaven is like unto a certain king which made a marriage for his son".\nSo the wedding clothes were customary, and "given" to those who "chose" to\nattend. This man "refused" to wear the clothes. The wedding clothes are\nequalivant to the "clothes of righteousness". When Jesus died for our sins,\nthose "clothes" were then provided. Like that man, it is our decision to\nput the clothes on.\n']
type(twenty_test)
sklearn.utils.Bunch
tfidf = TfidfVectorizer(ngram_range=(1,2),stop_words = 'english',min_df = 2)
#ngram_range =(1,1) by default
# min_df value ranges from [0.1,1.0] and by default it can take 1.0
#tfidf1_train = tfidf.fit(twenty_train.data)
tfidf_final_train_data = tfidf.fit_transform(twenty_train.data)
#tfidf1_test = tfidf.fit(twenty_test.data)
tfidf_final_test_data = tfidf.transform(twenty_test.data)
from sklearn.linear_model import LogisticRegression
# -------------------------------------------------------------#
tfidf_final_train_label = twenty_train.target
logistic_regression_model = LogisticRegression()
logistic_regression_model.fit(tfidf_final_train_data,tfidf_final__train_label)
# -------------------------------------------------------------#
# Accuracy for the train
accuracy_score_train = logistic_regression_model.score(tfidf_final_train_data,tfidf_final_train_label)
print('Accuracy score for Logistic Regression Model under train: ', accuracy_score_train)
# -------------------------------------------------------------#
# Accuracy for the test
tfidf_final_test_label = twenty_test.target
accuracy_score_test = logistic_regression_model.score(tfidf_final_test_data,tfidf_final_test_label)
print('Accuracy score for Logistic Regression Model under test: ', accuracy_score_test)
# -------------------------------------------------------------#
Accuracy score for Logistic Regression Model under train: 0.9964554718653079 Accuracy score for Logistic Regression Model under test: 0.9087882822902796